From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Tue Nov 26 05:41:24 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:41:24 +0100
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no> <artvr3$cbe$2@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <arvj2i$jeg$1@news.netpower.no>

<maney at pobox.com> wrote in message news:artvr3$cbe$2 at wheel2.two14.net...
> David Brown <david at no.westcontrol.spam.com> wrote:
> > correctness.  This particular "feature" is a huge source of bugs and
> > frustration in C programming - mixing up "=" and "==" in conditions is
> > probably the biggest single cause of C program bugs.  Python, on the
other
>
> Are you speaking from experience, or is this as well-founded as the
> hysterical wails about how Python's use of indentation is just wrong?
> It certainly isn't remotely near my own experience (which covers a bit
> more than two decades, during much of which C was used more than
> anything else).

It is certainly a mistake I have made.  C has a number of these "features",
where you can very easily write valid C code that looks and reads like it
should work ("=" and "==" look and read the same at first glance), yet
fails.  The one that gets me more often is missing a "break" in a switch
statement.  The more you write C, the less you make these sort of mistakes,
so they are of a much bigger problem to newbies.  But if you look at any of
the coding standards designed for writing safety-critical or highly reliable
code, they are full of rules about writing unnatural things like "if (1 ==
x)" or "if ((y) == x)" to force C compilers to generate error messages when
you make these mistakes.





From goodger at python.org  Thu Nov  7 19:25:24 2002
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 00:25:24 GMT
Subject: ht2html and reStructured text
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1036677249.30040.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1036677249.30040.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <B9F06ECF.2B5FF%goodger@python.org>

Jim Tittsler wrote:
>> Has anyone merged ht2html and reStructured text?

Oliver Rutherfurd replied:
> I've written an '.ht' writer for docutils which will convert
> reStructuredText to an '.ht' file. It is not yet part of
> docutils, but I hope it will be included in a future release.

It definitely will be.  I'm also interested in integrating them.

> It can be found in the docutils sandbox here:
> 
> http://docutils.sourceforge.net/sandbox/oliverr/ht/

We'd love to have you help out at Docutils.  Lots of interesting
work going on there now.  I expect a new release as soon as I
get some loose ends tied up.

-- 
David Goodger  <goodger at python.org>  Open-source projects:
  - Python Docutils: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/
    (includes reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html)
  - The Go Tools Project: http://gotools.sourceforge.net/



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Nov 17 11:28:26 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:28:26 -0600
Subject: Possibly a stupid question regarding Python Classes
In-Reply-To: <3dd7c140$1_6@nopics.sjc> ("Adonis"'s message of "Sun, 17 Nov
 2002 11:18:29 -0500")
References: <3dd7c140$1_6@nopics.sjc>
Message-ID: <m2of8otb2t.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Adonis" == Adonis  <deltapigz at telocity.com> writes:


    Adonis> So in essence I want to override the Bar function, but as
    Adonis> well do what it would if it were instantiated. I know I
    Adonis> could instantiate Foo prior to printing Bar, but was
    Adonis> wondering if there was a way to keep it within the same
    Adonis> process.


If I undersand your question correctly, you can do this by calling
Foo.Bar with the self argument passed as the first parameter

class Foo:
    def Bar(self):
        print 'Foo'

class Fib(Foo):
    def Bar(self):
        Foo.Bar(self)
        print 'Bar'

f = Fib()
f.Bar()


This comes up a lot in calling a parent classes initialization function

class Bar:
   def __init__(self,x):
      self.x = x

class Foo(Bar):
   def __init__(self, x, y):
      Bar.__init__(self, x)
      self.y = y

f = Foo(1,2)
print f.x, f.y


John Hunter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 18 22:11:28 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:11:28 -0500
Subject: classifier systems re-coded in Python?
References: <mailman.1037670692.6438.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <182dnaFhsdyUN0SgXTWcrg@comcast.com>

"Kow K" <kowk at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037670692.6438.python-list at python.org...
> Hi Pythoneers,
>
> I'm just wondering if anybody has re-coded David Goldberg's Pascal
> implementation of John Holland's (learning) classifier system in
Python.
>
> Any pointer will be appreciated.

try:
  google('Holland learning classifier Python')

TJR




From Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM  Wed Nov 13 03:30:48 2002
From: Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM (Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 00:30:48 -0800
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ? - testing only
References: <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOOENPDPAA.marklists@mceahern.com> <mailman.1036484650.32647.python-list@python.org> <44ee1dc2.0211120441.465eeb62@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <44ee1dc2.0211130030.4bb1657f@posting.google.com>

this time i remove everything


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Tue Nov 19 23:51:59 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:51:59 +1100
Subject: Installation
In-Reply-To: <2066386.1037763461@dbforums.com>
References: <2066386.1037763461@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <200211201551.59887.rjones@ekit-inc.com>

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 2:37 pm, Tetsuo wrote:
> A few days ago, Python simply stopped working. I tried reinstalling, and
> it demanded that I log in as an admin, or it can't do some sys configs.
> My mom tried to log in as an admin, and that was still not admin enough.
> We concluded that the reason is the anivirus my mom installed. She
> turned it off. No effect whatsoever. Same stupid message.
>
> What the heck?
>
> Win2K is the OS, Norton is the "anti" virus.
>
> I'm at the end of my wit. As ususal.

You didn't tell us:

1. your version of python and how you installed it
2. what the "stupid message" is


   Richard




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Nov 12 09:08:28 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:08:28 +0100
Subject: Optimisation problem
References: <mailman.1037087175.5506.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqr28o$4om$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:44:28 +0800, "Simon Wittber (Maptek)"
<Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au> wrote:

<snip>

>Does anyone have any idea how I can optimise this code? It is going to
>be used in a very tight rendering loop. I would prefer to keep all the
>code in Python, and avoid writing any external modules.

<snip>

>	def __createMatrix(self):
>		self.matrix[0] = 1.0 - 2.0 * ( self.y * self.y + self.z
>* self.z )

Create local variables so that they can be found in the local scope of
the function:

m,x,y,z = self.matrix,self.x,self.y,self.z

This is faster and also saves typing. Creating local *functions* like
sin = math.sin is also a bit faster. Furthermore testing the effects
of speeding things up this way - using a speed test - is crucial. One
is toggling with the handles of a very complex machinery and the
results may be unpredictable.

Regards,
		Anton


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov  6 09:32:01 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:32:01 GMT
Subject: The Deitel book (was Re: Textbooks on Perl/Python)
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036539728.6381.python-list@python.org> <ZI6y9.77441$aL4.2400685@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036590550.21817.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <BJ9y9.97848$TD1.4400440@news2.tin.it>

Chris Gonnerman wrote:
   ...
> It's just a dang ugly book, in my opinion; and then on top of
> that it's a hard read.  Sure, it may be suitable for a Python
> class at college, but my advice to the prospective victim (I
> mean student) is to get Steve's book also and read it first.
> Then you'll hardly have to look at the Dietel book most of the
> course.

Nolo contendere -- except that some students may prefer
Magnus Hetland's "Practical Python" (aPress) instead of
Steve's book.  (I'm equally biased towards both, since I
tech-reviewed both and both Magnus and Steve are my friends;-).

Steve introduces many other technologies that an accomplished
web programmer needs to understand something about, including
networks, HTTP, HTML, relational databases, etc; and develops
one large, powerful framework for programming asynchronous
webpages that rely on a relational DB.  Magnus develops ten
not-quite-as-large rich, complete examples, in a wide variety
of different fields.  If you like fully-worked-out significant
examples, either book should gladden your heart; if the web is
what you most care about, then particularly if you don't feel
quite secure about its various technologies Steve's book may
be preferable -- if you care about a wider range of things
(with some web programming, but not just that), Magnus' variety
may be preferable.  Steve has the advantage of being of English
mother-tongue (he's British but has been living and working in 
the US for years, so no "jarring" Britishisms should give any
problems even to native-US'ers), while Magnus, like me, has
English has a second language (I don't notice that as producing
any significant difference -- but then, I guess I wouldn't, not
being of English mother tongue myself).


Both books are BIG, in good part due to the fully worked
out significant examples.  As a personal taste, I prefer
SMALL books, and I prefer toy examples rather than "fully
worked out significant ones" (e.g., the kind of examples
found in Eckel's or Lippmann's books are much more to my
didactical tastes than those found in Stroustrup's...).

For readers that share my tastes, it may be worth waiting
for the next edition of Lutz and Ascher's "Learning
Python", O'Reilly -- the current edition is very good but
alas limited to Python 1.5.2, the next one will no doubt
cover 2.2.  You pays your money and you makes your choice...!


Alex




From bfordham at socialistsushi.com  Sun Nov  3 12:48:47 2002
From: bfordham at socialistsushi.com (Bryan L. Fordham)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 12:48:47 -0500
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <3dc52a19.3339913@news.cybermesa.com> <aq3fd3$fv$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3DC5617F.4000801@socialistsushi.com>

Aahz wrote

>I'm afraid I was insufficiently clear: I'm looking for people who are
>familiar with using refactoring tools with Java but still find Python
>easier to refactor.
>  
>

A lot of it, of course, depends on you religion 8)

I've worked at a company (now owned by verisign) for almost 2 years, and 
all the development produced in my department is in java.  But, to me, 
it's much quicker for me to hack out quick scripts in python that 
produce java code than it is to try and do that in java.  I've gotten a 
few people there to install python, and they all find it much easier to 
use than java.

To me, refactoring is easier in python; my method is to hack out things 
at the commandline and then, when I get something working, dump it into 
a module.  That works well for me and is much quicker than the 
write-compile-debug-repeat cycle one is forced into with java.

As far as tools, I can't stand IDE's, but that's just me; I'm used to 
text editors and so I am quicker in those.  I try and stay out of those 
"debates" as everyone stickes to their own opinion.  My take is that you 
should use what works best for you.

--B





From hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com  Wed Nov 13 09:29:31 2002
From: hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:29:31 GMT
Subject: perl2python
References: <87y97xmy6o.fsf@flibuste.net>
Message-ID: <xqx4ral8rw4.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

William <wilk-spamout at flibuste.net> writes:

> hi,
> 
> I want to convert a little perl script to python, is there a tools for
> that ? or a little doc to learn the minimum of perl for python users ?

When I was converting from perl to python, I found I wanted a way to
do perl-ish idioms in python.  That led to:
  http://www.seanet.com/~hgg9140/comp/pyperlish-1.2/doc/index.html

Download available at:
  http://www.seanet.com/~hgg9140/comp/index.html

I don't use it anymore, since my apps are now in native python idioms.

> 
> This script is to convert XpressTag to HTML... maybe somebody else
> is interested ?
> 
> bye
>  
> -- 
> William Dode - http://flibuste.net

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757


From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 19 12:25:28 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:25:28 GMT
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <ar4rgh$nj2$1@panix3.panix.com> <ar5r65$uq6$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD85526.6020606@something.invalid> <ar9oqi$oil$0@216.39.172.122> <7h34radwzql.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <ardofe$cp0$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <7h34radv5jn.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:47:57 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:
> 
> >bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
> >
> >> IOW, IMO there ought to be a way to do a temporary global-side-effect-free
> >> import and delete all traces of its having been done -- without restarting
> >> the interpreter or invoking a second interpreter instance.
> >
> >I don't think this is so hard:
> >
> >def load_file(file, modname):
>                ^^^^- tch, tch ;-)

It was fname at one point, but I thought that obscure...

> >    import new
> >    mod = new.module(modname)
> >    exec open(file).read() in mod.__dict__
> >    return mod
> >
> 
> But as Jeff pointed out, if there are any imports in your imported file,
> you have to encapsulate them too. So you need a temporary sandbox
> import that captures all the import action into a private container/space.

Hmm.  Yes.

> IIRC I saw some docs on sandboxing import. That's probably the trail
> to follow.

Yeah, just don't touch sys.modules in your __import__, I guess.

I wonder if 

    import new, __builtin__
    mod = new.module(modname)
    d = __builtin__.__dict__.copy()
    d['__import__'] = my_hook
    mod.__dict__['__builtins__'] = d
    exec open(file).read() in mod.__dict__
    return mod

would be a good start?

> Thanks for the reminders. BTW, is there a reason you preferred
> 
>     exec open(file).read() in mod.__dict__
> over
>     execfile(filepath, mod.__dict__)
> above?

Nope.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Exam invigilation - it doesn't come much harder than that, esp if
  the book you're reading turns out to be worse than expected.
                                  -- Dirk Bruere, sci.physics.research


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 18 23:26:56 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:26:56 -0800
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DD9BD90.12223E70@alcyone.com>

Josh wrote:

> I am a python newbie, and I am sure there is an easy answer but, Is
> there
> any equivalent to C's static variables in Python? If not, how can you
> have
> variables inside a function, that 'remember' their values between
> function
> calls?

Typically one would just have a global (module scope) variable with a
leading underscore (a common convention meaning, "Don't touch me unless
you're part of the implementation."

	_count = 0
	def call():
	    global _count
	    _count += 1
	    print "Count is %d" % _count

In class, you can get the effect of "static variables" by defining
variables in class scope, not local scope.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Pick the roses from the thorns / Wash with waters of the storms
\__/ Chante Moore
    PyUID / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/uid/
 A module for generating "unique" IDs in Python.


From =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?=  Wed Nov 27 15:39:17 2002
From: =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?= (=?iso-8859-5?Q?=B4=D0=DC=F8=D0=DD_=B3=2E?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:39:17 +0100
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Mod_python 3.0.1
References: <mailman.1038426181.12664.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3de52d75$1@news.mt.net.mk>


> The Apache Software Foundation and The Apache HTTP Server Project are
> pleased to announce the release of mod_python 3.0.1.

skipping through the online documentation, I noticed the PythonOutputFilter
directive. If I understand corectly this and the AddOutputFilter Apache
deirective will enable me to register different Python handlers for
different file-extensions in the SAME directory, no. 

I'm asking this this was previously not possible with mod_python 2.x.




-- 
??????

      There are three kind of lies: lies, damn lies and benchmarks.



From mwh at python.net  Mon Nov  4 08:48:51 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:48:51 GMT
Subject: What the heck has happened to PythonWin???
References: <Vxfv9.725$0A6.17168@news4.ulv.nextra.no> <ctiv9.10864$jE1.36952@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <p2kv9.36983$Lg2.10015758@news2.news.adelphia.net> <z9iw9.22517$jE1.72495@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <lky989xxb5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> writes:

> Bob X wrote:
> > "Mark Hammond" <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:ctiv9.10864$jE1.36952 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > <snip>
> >
> >>before.  I *wish* I had time to play on Pythonwin, but it hasn't been
> >>touched for ages (however, if you want an excellent spam detection tool
> >>for Outlook 2000...<wink>)
> > Something like this: http://p-nand-q.com/pynospam.htm
> > or your own?  <wink>
> 
> Well, not mine <wink>.  As Skip posted, the general project is
> spambayes.sourceforge.net.  I've put together a cute outlook addin.
> The bayesian filter, 

Which, of course, isn't Bayesian...

> plus Outlooks integration facilities is providing
> an *incredibly* effective Spam filter with very tight integration and
> incremental training capabilities.  The bayesian nature means that it
> doesn't use pre-determined heuristics, so tends to catch even the most
> subtle spam.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  ARTHUR:  Yes.  It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing
           cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door
           saying "Beware of the Leopard".
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 1


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Nov 13 11:26:08 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:26:08 -0000
Subject: Raw Newbie: What's the "<?" tag and how can I learn more abou
	t it?
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDB16@intrepid>

> From:	KEVIN ZEMBOWER [SMTP:KZEMBOWER at jhuccp.org]
> I'm just now beginning my learning about python, and have to modify a
> system written in python, the ezmlm-browse system, which allows ezmlm
> mailing lists to be accessed via a web interface.
> 
> I've found templates which look like this:
>     <? if body is None ?>
>       <hr><strong>["%(type)s" not shown]</strong>
>     <? else ?>
>       <hr><table width="640">
>       <tr><td>%(markup_urls(html(body)))s</td></tr>
>       </table>
>     <? end ?>
> 
> Obviously, this is python code embedded in HTML, very similar to php in
> HTML, with which I am more familiar. However, I can't find any references
> to the "<?" tag system on the python.org web site. I also can't find any
> references to it in my Learning Python or Programming Python books. I
> suspect that this is that I just don't know the proper terms to search
> for. Where can I learn more about this aspect of python?
> 
> The specific problem I'm working on involves the line '<hr><table
> width="640">'. I'd like to change the width to "100%", but the percent
> sign must be interpreted as a special character. It causes strange errors.
> I've tried escaping it with 'width="100\%"', but this doesn't seem to
> work, either. Any help on this small problem?
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions and help and patience with what I suspect is a
> very newbie question.
 
The "<?" stuff isn't part of core Python, hence your not being able to find
references to it on python.org. It's almost certainly part of a templating
system. Problem is, there are a great many of these for Python - see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming> for many (though
probably not all) of them.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From nospam at bigfoot.com  Thu Nov 28 08:21:31 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:21:31 +0100
Subject: wxSocketServer in wxPython
References: <b1078faa.0211271801.378f0cbe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <as54jo$10hg$1@norfair.nerim.net>

"moxie" <moxie_is at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:
b1078faa.0211271801.378f0cbe at posting.google.com...
> I'm trying to use the wxSocketServer and wxSocketClient classes in
> wxPython, but wxPython does not recognize these classes.
>
> wxSocketServer and wxSocketClient both are in the wxWindows
> documentation, so I guess these classes are only available for C++ at
> the moment.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> ~= moxie =~

Somewhere in the help of wxPython, there is a list of wxWindows features
supported by wxPython.
You'll notice that *most* GUI features are supported, but not *all*
wxWindows features.

--Gilles





From costanza at web.de  Tue Nov 12 05:26:45 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:26:45 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de> <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>
Message-ID: <3DD0D765.3030907@web.de>

Gareth McCaughan wrote:

>>>You mean (funcall #'+ 1 1 1) and (funcall #'* 2 3).
>> 
>> No, (funcall '+ 1 1 1) works as well (as defined by the ANSI specs).
> 
> Yes, but identifying functions with the symbols that name them
> at run time is generally reckoned bad Lisp style.

You're right, but I wanted to avoid to explain the difference between ' 
and #'. These examples are only meant to give a first taste of Lisp.


Pascal

-- 
Pascal Costanza               University of Bonn
mailto:costanza at web.de        Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de  R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)



From occitan at esperanto.org  Tue Nov  5 16:10:04 2002
From: occitan at esperanto.org (Daniel Pfeiffer)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 22:10:04 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
Message-ID: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>

Hi,

this morning it struck me that it would be nice to have Parrot not only run Perl 6 and similar byte code, but that any of the common interpreted languages be compiled to this same byte code.

Then no matter whether running a Perl 6, Python, Ruby, Tcl maybe even bash script the same interpreter library would be used.  Then likely it would already be in memory speeding up start time.

And this would also ease cross language module/library inclusion.  Imagine instantiating some Python class from Perl!

Apache would essentially have a mod_parrot.  Maybe, if this can be tested very hard, we'd even have a Parrot kernel module for all Unices supporting that.  Then exec() could perform compiled scripts right away, like machine code :-)

coralament / best Gr?tens / liebe Gr??e / best regards / elkorajn salutojn
Daniel Pfeiffer

-- 
 -- http://dapfy.bei.t-online.de/make.pl/
  --


From gminick at hacker.pl  Mon Nov  4 11:20:19 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:20:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: indirect **keyword calls
References: <mailman.1035795754.12816.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasdhj0.e0.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Mon, 28 Oct 2002 00:59:11 -0800, Terry Hancock napisa?(a):
> I've just recently come across a need for this idiom (isn't
> this new in Python 2.x?):
> def my_func(spam, ham=1, **eggs):
>      #...
>      pass

There exist two ways of using dictionaries as arguments to functions.
Here we go with examples:

def first(**a):
   print "\n".join([ "%s==%s" % (k,v) for k,v in a.items()])

first(a="b",b="c",c="d")


def second(a):
   print "\n".join([ "%s==%s" % (k,v) for k,v in a.items()])

second({"a":"b", "b":"c", "c":"d"})

If you want to read more about it, take a look at 
                                         <http://diveintopython.org/>

-- 
[ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ ]
[ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) underground.org.pl  ]


From bloke at ii.net  Tue Nov  5 11:37:09 2002
From: bloke at ii.net (Rob Hall)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 00:37:09 +0800
Subject: pyqt table
Message-ID: <3dc7f35b$0$11674@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

I have created a qt table fine.  I want to be able to colour the background
of individual cells but I cant find a setBackground method fot QTableItem.

How do I colour the background of a cell?

Rob




From cliechti at gmx.net  Tue Nov  5 17:28:42 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 00:28:42 +0200
Subject: calldll question
References: <3DC847D5.60908@ihug.co.nz> <3DC85186.80209@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <Xns92BE50A5279Bcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Matthew <dontspam_matthewm at ihug.co.nz> wrote in 
news:3DC85186.80209 at ihug.co.nz:
> One question though, webpage states that calldll only 
> works on Py2.1. Is this true as I am running Py2.2.1 and so far calldll 
> appears to work without a hitch.

binary extension on windows "pyd"s, which are in fact dlls, are compiled 
against a specific python version and will not work with other versions
of python. however, you will almost certainly find a version for each newer 
python version. and in your case, you seem to have found the correct one 
already.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From rainer at cs.uu.nl  Tue Nov  5 07:01:44 2002
From: rainer at cs.uu.nl (Rainer)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 12:01:44 GMT
Subject: urllib ??
References: <9782a2ed.0211040151.db070a3@posting.google.com> <3DC64C2A.7604FB4B@hotmail.com> <aq5v25$kkb$1@samos.cs.uu.nl> <3DC688E4.BD46E2FB@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <aq8bv8$lrp$1@samos.cs.uu.nl>

with the help of alan, we finally have the solution for this problem:
'Submit', 'Process query'),
has to be set as a name/value pair....
this is it

rainer





In article <3DC688E4.BD46E2FB at hotmail.com>, alanmk at hotmail.com says...
>
>Rainer wrote:
>> 
>> hi alan
>> this is the problem, maybe i put it the wrong way.
>> i DO NOT get the results from the server. the thing that is stored in
>> 'results', is the 'query-webpage' with the values filled in, not the
>> results page.
>
>OK, I think I see your peoblem now.
>
>You're submitting data to the server almost correctly, but the server is
>just returning the input form to you, as if you had not filled out all
>of the fields correctly.
>
>And I think that this is one of the things you are doing wrong: not
>filling in the fields correctly. The problem lines are these
>
>    d['.cgifields']='ContAllHits'
>    d['.cgifields']='SortByIde'
>    d['.cgifields']='StructAllHits'
>    d['.cgifields']='Map2Mismatch'
>    d['.cgifields']='Dbase3d'
>
>HTTP allows for multiple values for the same field in a POST request.
>However, python dictionaries do NOT: python dicts can have only one
>value for every key. Try the following at an interactive prompt
>
>>>>d = {}
>>>>d['.cgifields']='ContAllHits'
>>>>d
>{'.cgifields': 'ContAllHits'}
>>>>d['.cgifields']='SortByIde'
>>>>d
>{'.cgifields': 'SortByIde'}
>
>You're expecting it to maintain multiple values for the key
>".cgifields", but it doesn't: the value gets overwritten each time,
>meaning that you are submitting POST data that only includes the value
>'.cgifields'='Dbase3d' (the last assignment in the list), and failing to
>supply values for the (presumably necessary) 'ContAllHits', 'SortByIde',
>'StructAllHits', 'Map2Mismatch'.
>
>The solution is to pass a list of tuples to "urlencode" instead of a
>dictionary, like so
>
>#=-----------------------------------------------------
>
>def query2_polyphen():
>
>    d=[
>    ('InputQuerySequence', '>GGG \012 sequence'),
>    ('Var1', 'C'),
>    ('InputQueryPosition', '282'),
>    ('Var2', 'Y'),
>    ('Dbase3d', 'pqs'),
>    ('SortByIde', '1'),
>    ('Map2Mismatch', '0'),
>    ('StructAllHits', '0'),
>    ('ContAllHits', '0'),
>    ('MinHitLen', '100'),
>    ('MinHitIde', '0.5'),
>    ('MaxHitGaps', '20'),
>    ('ContThresh', '6'),
>    ('.cgifields', 'ContAllHits'),
>    ('.cgifields', 'SortByIde'),
>    ('.cgifields', 'StructAllHits'),
>    ('.cgifields', 'Map2Mismatch'),
>    ('.cgifields', 'Dbase3d'),
>    ]
>    query=urllib.urlencode(d)
>    url = 'http://tux.embl-heidelberg.de/ramensky/polyphen.cgi'
>    results = urllib.urlopen(url,query).read()
>    open ('rainer.html','w').write(results)
>#=-----------------------------------------------------
>
>However, I also notice, by manually submitting your form data using a
>browser, that the data you are submitting give rise to an error. I don't
>know enough about molecular biology to know what the error is, but I
>suggest that you get your submitted data right manually before trying to
>submit it automatically.
>
>Also, you might send an email to the provider of the polyphen service
>asking them to somehow make it possible for automated submission scripts
>to recognise when a query has failed, rather than simply sending the
>form again. A return HTTP status value in the 4xx series might be
>suitable, e.g. of the "404 - file not found" variety.
>
>HTH,
>
>alan kennedy
>-----------------------------------------------------
>check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
>email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Nov  1 09:03:09 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 09:03:09 -0500
Subject: Global variable visibility
References: <mailman.1036134421.16482.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <apu1it$2o8$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1036134421.16482.python-list at python.org>,
David LeBlanc <whisper at oz.net> wrote:
>
>Ah, the commands.Db idiom wasn't one I thought of. My "punt" was to create
>an Initialize method in the commands.py file and call it with Db as a param:
>
>Db = None
>
>def Initialize(database)
>	global Db
>	Db = database
>
>commands.Db is obviously simpler and more obvious too.
>
>Not exactly sure what you mean by rebinding. Would (in commands.py) Db =
>__main__.Db be a rebinding or another reference?

It would be a rebinding, but what I was actually referring to was
rebinding Db in main.py.  The only strong argument against using
commands.Db to set it is that someone looking at commands.py in
isolation can't see how Db gets set.  Here's a variation that's closer
to what I usually do:

    class cfg: pass

    def Initialize(Db):
        cfg.Db = Db

You could use a dict instead of a class, but I find the direct attribute
access simpler.

BTW, please do not top-post; it makes it difficult to see the context.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Project Vote Smart: http://www.vote-smart.org/


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 26 01:28:39 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:28:39 -0800
Subject: some questions....
References: <arumtk$pqa$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <na4vra.4f4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

eugene kim fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 26 November 2002 
12:40 am:

> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> 
> wow.. i thought python is easy to learn..
> but there are lot's of corks..
> namespace, scoping rule, exec, eval..
> all confuses me..
> 
> first.. about exec
> class simple:
>     def __init__(self,value):
>         self.value = value
>         if value == 4 :
>             print c ## <--- ok
>             print C ## <--- error
> 
>     def __repr__(self):
>         return str(self.value)
>         
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     a = 3;
>     b = 4;
>     c = simple(a)
                        You just created a "c"
>     d = simple(b)
                        So this instance can find a "c" to print.
                        There is NO "C" in existance at this point in the 
                        program
>     print c
>     print d
> 
>     exec "C = simple(a)"
>     print C
                        NOW you have created a "C"

> 
> 
> 
> another question about exec
> aList = ['a', 'b']
> for aString in aList:
>     aString = myClass(aString)  ## <--error

                        Again, my first question is WHY are you 
                        assigning the result to a loop index?

>     exec "aString = myClass(aString)" ## <-- ok

                        And what does myClass actually contain?

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From mail at andreas-penzel.de  Fri Nov 15 09:56:33 2002
From: mail at andreas-penzel.de (Andreas Penzel)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:56:33 +0100
Subject: eMail including attachment on Linux
Message-ID: <ar31v1$f0e2r$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>

Hello NG!

I am writing a Python program on Linux which should be able to send eMails
including an attachment with sendmail.
How to do that?

Thanks for any help

- Andreas




From rmunn at pobox.com  Sat Nov 30 13:04:06 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:04:06 GMT
Subject: catch output of threads
References: <87of88723i.fsf@flibuste.net> <m3lm3ct88i.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87el946qjl.fsf@flibuste.net>
Message-ID: <slrnauhvk1.80b.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

William <wilk-spamout at flibuste.net> wrote:
> martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis) writes:
> 
>> William <wilk-spamout at flibuste.net> writes:
>> 
>> > Is it possible to catch the output from print of differents threads ?
>> > In a single thread, i can change the value of sys.stdout... but with
>> > differents thread i don't know ?
>> 
>> You can still change the value of sys.stdout, even for multiple
>> threads. The print statement internally uses sys.stdout itself.
>> 
>> If multiple threads interleave print statements, you will get mixed
>> output on your replaced sys.stdout, just as you would with the
>> standard sys.stdout.
> 
> It's why i cannot use this method... I specialy want to catch the output
> to don't mix the ouput from all the threads.

In that case, you probably want to use locking to guarantee that one
thread's output won't get mixed with another. I don't know, off the top
of my head, exactly what the locking interface is -- read the docs for
the threading module. But what you'll want is something like:

    output_lock = Lock()
    # Some non-output code...
    output_lock.acquire()
    print "Here is some output"
    print "This will not be mixed"
    output_lock.release()

That should be what you want -- as long as all your threads acquire the
lock before they print, and release the lock when they're done, your
threads' outputs will not be mixed.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From e8Kuula at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 29 23:03:48 2002
From: e8Kuula at hotmail.com (Kristian Kuula)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 06:03:48 +0200
Subject: Python + MySQL (Win32)
Message-ID: <as9db5$b1c$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>

HI!

Little problen on connection, I get this:

>>> import CompatMysqldb
>>> conn = CompatMysqldb.mysqldb('test at 192.168.0.1 username password')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in ?
    conn = CompatMysqldb.mysqldb('test at 192.168.0.1 username password')
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python\Lib\site-packages\CompatMysqldb.py", line 317, in
mysqldb
    return Connection(dh[1], val[1], val[2], dh[0])
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python\Lib\site-packages\CompatMysqldb.py", line 117, in
__init__
    self.__transactional = self.__conn.server_capabilities &
CLIENT.TRANSACTIONS
AttributeError: server_capabilities

so what is wrong? :/

MySQL version: 3.23.53-max-nt
MySQL-Python version: 0.9.2 (MySQL-python-0.9.2.win32-py2.2.exe)
Python version: 2.2.1



From yaipa at aol.com  Sun Nov  3 15:51:45 2002
From: yaipa at aol.com (yaipa)
Date: 3 Nov 2002 12:51:45 -0800
Subject: python -u under cygwin telnet
References: <954ef463.0211021945.7a1b5c05@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8d148763.0211031251.1ed74d5@posting.google.com>

I'm not doing exactly what you are, but I've had 
great success controlling serial ports in Solaris
and Win2K using pySerial,

 http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/

Not so long ago I posted some working code titled
"Working (basic) Eurotherm Temp Controller" on this alias.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.  I need
to do the same thing you are in the next phase of my project.

Cheers,

-Yaipa.h


avajrd at yahoo.com (Mike) wrote in message news:<954ef463.0211021945.7a1b5c05 at posting.google.com>...
> Perhaps somebody here can enlighten me on this.
> 
> I have a small program that interfaces with a serial port using the
> uspp (univerisal serial port) package.  This required the win32all
> v148 as a pre-req.  This program works as designed from cmd.exe.
> 
> Python version is "Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32
> bit (Intel)] on win32"
> 
> I needed to have this program called from a cgi script using expect so
> I installed the latest cygwin and configured inetd to run a service to
> support telnetd.  When I try to run the python interpreter
> interactively from a telnet session, I do not get any prompts.
> 
> When I run the program, it works, but no output is displayed until it
> terminates.  Using the -u switch overcomes this.
> 
> The cygwin version of python works correctly interactively, but I
> can't use this because uspp does not work in cygwin.
> 
> I do not get this behaviour from a cygwin bash shell from the machine,
> not using telnet.
> 
> Does any of this make sense?  I'm not really in a "pickle" (sorry for
> the pun), but just trying to understand why.


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Thu Nov 21 00:01:10 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:01:10 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBB8BD.6020806@web.de> <h3intucpgk2dg6vhul96pg5epcfva8o8ll@4ax.com> <87ptt0otp1.fsf@theasylum.dyndns.org> <svgotu4nk5pkskil0g81lj5ivlcnn943d0@4ax.com> <3DDC5A89.7080406@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <mvpotu0slu35g396q3foiui9mfg47ru8vk@4ax.com>

>> Think all you like. Industry has spoken. Other languages = 10. Lisp = 0.

>True, but they spoke before: COBOL, CICS, VSAM, ...

Not, really. The absence of Lisp in the community is largely due to
a _grass roots_ dislike of Lisp itself.

C//



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Nov  5 17:01:38 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 22:01:38 GMT
Subject: win32com / Dispatch
In-Reply-To: <3dc6c2ad@news.uia.ac.be>
References: <3dc6c2ad@news.uia.ac.be>
Message-ID: <6dXx9.15577$5u4.50589@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Paul.Casteels at ua.ac.be wrote:
>  When I use win32com.client.Dispatch I get a CDispatch object with an
> oleobj inside and I have direct access to all methods/attributes.
>  How can I obtain the same result when I get the IDispatch pointer from
> an external application (as an argument from another COM method).
>  The type of this pointer is PyIDispatch but I am unable to invoke any
> methods on it.

Simply pass the PyIDispatch object to win32com.client.Dispatch() - it 
detects this case and creates a wrapper around it.

Mark.



From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Nov 14 19:55:58 2002
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 16:55:58 -0800
Subject: ANN: Logging Package v0.4.7 released
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0211141655.18262207@posting.google.com>

A new version of the proposed Python standard logging package (as per
PEP 282) has been released.

What Does It Do?
================
The logging package offers the ability for any Python program to log
events which occur during program execution. It's typically used to
provide application diagnostics, warnings and error messages. In
addition to capturing "what happened", "where it happened", "when it
happened", "how important it is" and event specific data, you can
configure, without changing the application source code, both the
verbosity of logging and the routing of events to different
destinations such as console, disk files, sockets, email addresses,
Web servers, SOAP servers etc. etc. You can even change the
configuration of a running program without stopping and restarting it!

You can use the logging package in exception handlers, and it will
include traceback information in the log. It's thread-safe, and very
easy to use - just "import logging" and log away! Classes provided
include:

Logger	- used to log messages for a particular area of an application.
You can instantiate these wherever you want, there's no need to pass
references to them around your application. You can log events based
on importance levels of DEBUG (least important), INFO, WARN, ERROR,
and CRITICAL (most important). You can define your own levels if the
default levels don't meet your requirements.

Handler - used to route events to particular destinations. Handlers
included are:
   StreamHandler (for generalized streams, including console)
   FileHandler (for disk files - including log file rotation with size
limits for log files)
   SocketHandler (for sending events to a TCP socket)
   DatagramHandler (for sending events to a UDP socket - faster, but
less reliable than TCP)
   SMTPHandler (send events to arbitrary email addresses)
   HTTPHandler (send events to Web servers)
   SysLogHandler (send events to Unix syslog)
   MemoryHandler (batch up events and process them several at a time)
   NTEventLogHandler (send events to Windows NT event logs)
   
There are also examples of XMLHandler and SOAPHandler in the
distribution.

Formatter - used to format events as text strings. Flexible "msg %
arg_tuple" formatting is the basis for formatting, with flexible
date/time formatting including ISO8601 and any strftime-based formats.

Filter - used when filtering based on importance
(DEBUG/INFO/WARN/ERROR/CRITICAL) is not sufficient. The distribution
includes examples of filters based on class matching, regular
expression matching, value matching, and logger matching.

In the unlikely event that you're daunted by all the apparent
complexity, fear not. The package offers a simple function-based
interface to allow very simple, almost casual use of the underlying
features.

In addition to the core logging functionality, you get the ability to
configure logging using a ConfigParser-based text file format, a
Tkinter-based GUI configurator which creates configuration files for
you, and a simple network-based event receiver which receives events
on TCP, UDP, HTTP and SOAP ports. This is suitable for testing and
might perhaps serve as a model for your own event receivers. Also
included are over 20 test scripts which serve both as test harnesses
and examples of how to use the logging package.

You can get more information from

http://www.red-dove.com/python_logging.html

There are "download" and "recent changes" links at the top of that
page. The new stuff includes some bug fixes, better support for
class-based filtering and logging, more documentation of the
configuration file format, an example hand-coded configuration file
for those people who can't use the GUI configurator, an example Filter
for regular-expression match-based filtering, and more!

As always, your feedback is most welcome (especially bug reports,
patches and suggestions for improvement). Enjoy!

Cheers

Vinay Sajip
Red Dove Consultants Ltd.

Changes since the last version:
=================================
Made into a package with three modules: __init__ (the core code),
handlers (all handlers other than
FileHandler and its bases) and config (all the config stuff). Before
doing this:
Updated docstrings to include a short line, then a blank line, then
more descriptive text.
Renamed 'lvl' to 'level' in various functions.
Changed FileHandler to use "a" and "w" instead of "a+" and "w+".
Moved log file rotation functionality from FileHandler to a new class
RotatingFileHandler.
Improved docstring describing rollover.
Updated makePickle to use 4-byte length and struct module, likewise
logrecv.py. Also updated on-the-fly
config reader to use 4-byte length/struct module.
Altered ConfigParser test to look at 'readline' rather than 'read'.
Added optional "defaults" argument to fileConfig, to be passed to
ConfigParser.
Renamed ALL to NOTSET to avoid confusion.
Commented out getRootLogger(), as obsolete.
To do regression testing, run log_test.py and compare the created
files stdout.log and stderr.log against
the files stdout.exp and stderr.exp. They should match except for a
couple of exception messages which give absolute file paths.
Updated python_logging.html to remove links to logging_pydoc.html,
which has been removed from the
distribution.
Changed default for raiseExceptions to 1.


From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov 27 06:06:19 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:06:19 GMT
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <mailman.1038392977.32720.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3n0nvqnrs.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"malik martin" <malik_martin at hotmail.com> writes:

> <html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>

I find it very hard to read posts that do this, so if a newbie posts
in HTML, I don't help him or her.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I wouldn't trust the Anglo-Saxons for much anything else.  Given
  they way English is spelled, who could trust them on _anything_ that
  had to do with writing things down, anyway?
                                        -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 20 06:55:19 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:55:19 GMT
Subject: stopping SimpleHTTPServer
References: <rllC9.1167$Kw6.763611@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <XEtC9.1316$Kw6.814584@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <AptC9.28393$744.1027998@news1.tin.it> <SKxC9.1347$Kw6.845244@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <HKKC9.31220$744.1154979@news1.tin.it>

dsavitsk wrote:

> "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
> news:AptC9.28393$744.1027998 at news1.tin.it...
>> dsavitsk wrote:
> 
> * * *
> 
>> In your subclass, you need to override method handle_error, which by
>> default processes all exceptions (including the SystemExit exception
>> raised by sys.exit) by printing a traceback and continuing.  Check if
>> the exception is SystemExit and then re-raise it, otherwise delegate
>> to your base-class's handle_error for normal error processing...
>>
> right.  I am not getting something very fundamental, so this is a good
> learning opportunity ...

Here's the simplest toy example I can put together -- it may help e.g. in
case you made any confusion between handler and server classes:

import BaseHTTPServer as B
import SimpleHTTPServer as S
import sys

class myServer(B.HTTPServer):
    def handle_error(self, request, client_address):
        print 'handle_error', request, client_address
        raise

class myHandler(S.SimpleHTTPRequestHandler):
    def do_GET(self):
        sys.exit(1)

S.test(myHandler, myServer)

running this, then doing e.g. 
urllib.urlopen('http://localhost:8000/whatever')
from another terminal on an interactive session, results in output:

Serving HTTP on 0.0.0.0 port 8000 ...
handle_error <socket object, fd=4, family=2, type=1, protocol=0> 
('127.0.0.1', 50636)

and a return to the prompt.


Alex



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Wed Nov 13 20:50:14 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 01:50:14 GMT
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <qjDA9.6146$mN6.2823494@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Gumuz" <gumuz at looze.net> wrote in message
news:3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net...

> i am using wxPython at the moment as my python gui. Coming from a nice IDE
> like Delphi it's really frustrating to get a nice layout together. I tried
> some tools. The one i liked most, because of it's simplicity was wxGlade,
> but still... it's not there yet. I might have missed something here and I
> don't want to complain, but I think that a good, robust gui-designer will
> open up a lot of posibilities for python. i might give it a shot!

unless you are needing cross-platform-ination from your gui, why not just
use Delphi and either use PythonCOM for the code.  I do this w/ VB quite a
bit.  Or, you might use Python for Delphi
(http://membres.lycos.fr/marat/delphi/python.htm).  If you do need cross
platform, port your code to Kylix and tie it to Python ... has anyone done
this, btw?

-doug




From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Nov 20 13:28:43 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 18:28:43 GMT
Subject: exception thrown from I/O interrupted by signal
References: <lgbs4kze9k.fsf@mu.biosolveit.local>
Message-ID: <argk8r$1rju$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Volker Apelt <gq437x at yahoo.de>:
|
| Which exception is thrown from a I/O operation that is 
| interrupted by a signal?
|
| Which specification will catch it?
|
| try:
|    line = f.readline()
| except WhatIsIt, e:
|    print e

The exception will actually be raised by the library function that
you have called, and they each raise their own exception.  Optimistically
assuming you have a bona fide file object there, you may specify IOError.

The errno attribute of the exception will match errno.EINTR.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu

| ----- python lib docu
| _underline_ added by me.
| http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-signal.html
|
| 7.1 signal -- Set handlers for asynchronous events 
| # When a signal arrives during an I/O operation, it is _possible_ that the
| I/O operation raises _an_exception_ after the signal handler returns. This
| is dependent on the underlying Unix system's semantics regarding
| interrupted system calls.  


From kemu at sdf-eu.org  Thu Nov 28 08:20:27 2002
From: kemu at sdf-eu.org (Jonas Geiregat)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:20:27 +0100
Subject: what does is ?
In-Reply-To: <3de4a6dd$0$86531$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
References: <3de4a6dd$0$86531$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <slrnau9cep.tk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <3DE4B96D.1060808@Linux.ie> <slrnau9fl9.hk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <3de617bb$0$216$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> Padraig Brady  wrote:
>
> >Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> >
> >>Jonas Geiregat  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I saw something
> >>>import string
> >>>string._StringType is str
> >>>what does this specially that IS
> >>
> >>The "is" operator compares object *identity*, rather than equality, 
> which
> >>the "==" operator does.
> >
> >Well why does the following happen on 2.2?
> >Is Python being clever about merging variables?
> >
> >s1="123"
> >s2=s1[:]
> >s1 is s2 #true?
>
>
> Yes. Certain strings (not all) are being "interned". And certain ints 
> (not all)
> are interned, too:
>
>  >>> a = 5
>  >>> b = 10/2
>  >>> a is b
>  1
>  >>> x = 1000000000000
>  >>> y = 2000000000000 / 2
>  >>> x is y
>  0
>
> But it seems to me that the [:] slicing has an additional 
> optimization, apart
> from interning.

why is x is y 0 and a is b 1
I don't get it it's the same code only different and bigger numbers




From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 20 11:37:08 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:37:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com> <pan.2002.11.19.13.54.54.356611@battleface.com> <CWsC9.28249$744.1024358@news1.tin.it> <pan.2002.11.19.22.58.58.67571@battleface.com> <n2JC9.30839$744.1139538@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <argdnk$6ed$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
> Alexander Sendzimir wrote:
>> # I will say that what I don't like about the approach you propose is that
>> # it throws information away. Functionally, it leads to brittle code which
>> # is hard to maintain and can lead to errors which are very hard to track
>> # down if one is not familiar with the implementation.
> 
> I suspect it would be possible to construct utteances with which I
> could disagree more thoroughly than I disagree with this one, but
> it would take some doing.  I think that, since re patterns support
> the | operator, making use of that operator "throws away" no 
> information whatsoever and hence introduces no brittleness.

Just to prove that someone else is reading this thread (barely)...  :-)

I can somewhat agree with Alexander, and I think you're overlooking the
way that this approach does force the regexps and their associated
handler code apart in the source code.  Most of his objections, yes,
they're misguided, but the loss of the simple nearness of the pattern
with the action is one legitimate complaint against the
all-in-one-regex approach to this.

Of course, the reason the Perl pattern he started with was so clean and
straightforward was due to a globally shared "result of last re
applied" state, wasn't it?  Talk about frangible design!  OTOH, it does
fall into line with doing things by sensible convnetion rather than
strict rules, which you say (elsewhere, not quoted in reply) is Pythonic...

> some more normal people following this thread...:-): if the

I refuse to admit that I am "normal", please.  :-)

> In some other cases client code may not only need to have no
> constraints against using groups in the RE patterns, but also
> want "the match-object" as an argument to the action code.  In

This is one point on which I agree with Alexander: it seems to me to be
the usual case that the regexp both identifies and parses the target. 
If it isn't being used in that dual mode, then the whole issue
addressed here (and in at least two other threads during the past week)
doesn't exist.



From mike at skew.org  Thu Nov  7 18:58:51 2002
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:58:51 -0700
Subject: Date/Time Conversion
References: <mailman.1036696150.11839.python-list@python.org> <eeAy9.46$4G5.20100@news.abs.net>
Message-ID: <3dcafe3b$1_1@omega.dimensional.com>

"dapmco" <webmaster at clasp.org> wrote in message
news:eeAy9.46$4G5.20100 at news.abs.net...
> Thanks Paul.. That worked fine. I looked at the docs but could not figure
> out how to do this. A couple of routines looked like they would work but I
> couldnt seem to invoke them on my Windows platform
>
> Input a date in some format ex 01/01/1990..
> Return the number of seconds between 01/01/1970 and the date entered.

Yeah, Windows doesn't have time.strptime().
Try something like this...

import re, time
s = '01/01/90'
pat = re.compile(r'(\d+)/(\d+)/(\d+)')
m,d,y = pat.match(s).groups() # assuming USA (month first)
y = int(y)
y += 1900 + 100 * (y < 70) # Beware! Y2.07K bug!
secs = time.mktime((y,int(m),int(d),0,0,0,0,0,0))





From steve.cassidy at mq.edu.au  Sat Nov  9 06:04:47 2002
From: steve.cassidy at mq.edu.au (Steve Cassidy)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 22:04:47 +1100
Subject: PEP 301 -- Package Index and Metadata for Distutils
References: <mailman.1036734251.25997.python-list@python.org> <pan.2002.11.08.12.10.19.610348@mq.edu.au> <d6pg6nc1.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.09.10.48.07.151443@mq.edu.au>

On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:25:02 +0100, Thomas Heller wrote:
> As I've said before (on catalog-sig), I would consider a catalog as
> proposed by PEP 301 as *just another way* to search for Python
> software, but there are many ways already.
> 
> What I would like is that the catalog either
> 
> - allows to find out (programmatically) the link to the download URL
> for the software package,
> 
> - or offers the software package itself.
> 
> The TIP 55 sample implementation seems to implement the second one.

TIP 55 defines a package format which includes metadata and one of the
metadata fields could well be the package download URL. This metadata
could be indexed separately by some service, but CANTCL is an attempt at 
getting something like CPAN started for Tcl so it assumes that it's 
storing the packages itself. 

As for programmatically finding download urls, my approach would be to set
up a canonical URL for Tcl packages using a purl (eg.
http://purl.org/tcl/cantcl/foobar would get you the foobar package via
cantcl). 

This aside, I see distinct advantages in having compatible metadata
between the two systems.

Steve



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Nov  8 20:34:30 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 19:34:30 -0600
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1036805670.7989.95.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

At one time during school I had gotten into Smalltalk, and felt the same
way about it as many do about Lisp -- it was a great language and why
didn't people use it more?  I think many of Smalltalk's flaws are
similar to Lisp's flaws (and I still like both languages, but actively
use neither).

In both cases the syntax is novel.  Smalltalk's syntax is actually quite
aesthetically pleasing (in comparison to Lisp and most other languages,
even Python), but regardless it doesn't look anything like standard
Algol-style syntaxes.  Speed is more of an issue with Smalltalk, but
it's certainly no worse than Python.

But I don't think syntax is the biggest problem with either of these
languages.  Neither Lisp nor Smalltalk allows a person to move gradually
between environments.  My first experience with Python was using it to
create small scripts.  They were learning devices to be sure, but they
were also useful.  My similar experiments with Smalltalk were not useful
-- and the only way I could truly be useful in Smalltalk without writing
large and complete applications would be to use a Smalltalk
environment.  I even considered actually doing this -- living in a
Smalltalk world, with a Smalltalk browser and email client, storing my
documents in Smalltalk objects, the whole deal.  But that would be hard,
and I never actually made that leap.  People have made that same leap
with Lisp -- the Lisp Machines of yore.

But that's not going to be mainstream.  In a heterogeneous environment
both Lisp and Smalltalk have serious issues.  Their style isn't friendly
to outsiders, and even worse their environment usually isn't friendly. 
Python might not have as many libraries as Perl, but it has a heck of a
lot -- and best, a lot of libraries that connect to C libraries of
significant functionality.  

That's not fair, though -- neither language is fundamentally
isolationist.  So maybe the real blame lies with timing.  Python came
around when free software/open source was becoming a truly functional. 
Python gets a lot from that, and it also happens to get a lot from
having a single implementation.  Together, when something is implemented
by one (sharing) person, it is shared among all Python programmers --
not programmers of a specific implementation, nor among everyone who
finds it useful enough to pay for.  This community could not have come
to exist fifteen or twenty years ago, when those other languages were
still fresh.  

There's other important practical issues.  It's easy to share Python
programs and modules.  It's easy to manage the modules you get from
others.  It's easy to install Python, and while it doesn't start up
instantly, it starts up pretty quick (quicker than Common Lisp or
Smalltalk to be sure).  People can script in Python, they can't in big
languages.  Scripting is a great way to pull people in, and unlike other
languages (*coughperlcough*) they won't be burned when they try
something of significant size.  These are all details, but they are very
important details.

  Ian




From jwbaxter at spamcop.net  Mon Nov 11 11:35:09 2002
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.net (John Baxter)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:35:09 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqlos7$66p$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <qpwz9.16127$oC3.1394670@news010.worldonline.dk> <3dce96ad$0$12451$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> <3DCEB61A.EF3D8E05@alcyone.com> <3DCEBA43.941F62A2@alcyone.com> <3dcf6a25$0$35901$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <jwbaxter-D16FFF.08350811112002@corp-radius.supernews.com>

In article <3dcf6a25$0$35901$edfadb0f at dread13.news.tele.dk>,
 "Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> wrote:

> A fascinating read - like
> when they invented garbage collection because they didn't have enough
> spare bits for reference counting in the IBM 704 machine word ;)
> 
> on-a-64-bit-machine-would-McCarthy-have-invented-Python-instead?-ly y'rs,

We might have found out, had IBM ever gotten "Stretch" to work.

  --John (36 bits is SO confining) B.


From wolfson at uchicago.edu  Mon Nov 18 18:28:32 2002
From: wolfson at uchicago.edu (Ben Wolfson)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:28:32 -0600
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <3DD974C6.CD626D0A@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.18.23.28.32.968410@uchicago.edu>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:16:22 +0000, Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Even if you group parentheses to avoid this, you get
> 
> 	(a, b) == (c, d)
> 
> which also already has a meaning; it's a comparison of the tuples, not
> the pairwise comparison of the elements.

I was under the impression that a comparison of two tuples of equal length
amounts to a pairwise comparison of the elements anyway.

-- 
I certainly seem to be enjoying myself in the same way, smacking my
lips, sighing and moaning, dripping [REDACTED] on my shirt and
smearing it into my moustache ... But ... If I snuck a lick of your
cone, I wouldn't smack my lips. -- Ted Cohen



From dwelch at nospam.vcd.hp.com  Tue Nov 12 13:41:20 2002
From: dwelch at nospam.vcd.hp.com (djw)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:41:20 -0800
Subject: newbie question: how to get directory of script?
References: <4cce07d5.0211120957.6d4934@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqrhuf$qg6$1@news.vcd.hp.com>

os.getcwd()

/d/



From cliechti at gmx.net  Sun Nov 17 10:39:33 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 17:39:33 +0200
Subject: Redirect question
References: <fa576652.0211170745.2328fe56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92C9B3D945120cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

k.weinert at gmx.net (Karsten Weinert) wrote in 
news:fa576652.0211170745.2328fe56 at posting.google.com:
> I have a question about redirecting. Here is a small program I found
> on the web which I slightly modified; but now it does not run:
> 
> import win32ui, sys
> 
> class Redirect:
>   def __init__(self):
>     self.s=""
>   def write(self, s):
>     self.s+=s
>   def flush(self):
>     win32ui.MessageBox(s)

that cannot work.

   def flush(self):
     win32ui.MessageBox(self.s)
    	self.s = ""

has better chances

> sys.stdout = sys.stderr = Redirect()
> 
> print 'Hidey Ho'
> sys.stdout.flush()

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From scott at aao.gov.au  Fri Nov  1 02:35:37 2002
From: scott at aao.gov.au (Scott Smedley)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 18:35:37 +1100
Subject: Combining Python/Tk & Tcl/Tk
Message-ID: <3dc23e70@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

Hi all,

I'm new to Python & come from a Tcl/Tk background.

Is it possible to integrate/embed Python/Tk with Tcl/Tk?

I've read about a project called Minotaur, but that seems to
be dead ... really dead.

I'm interested because I've developed part of a GUI in Tcl/Tk &
a project partner wants to develop their part of the GUI in
Python/Tk.

Thanks for any help/pointers.

SCoTT. :)


From smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org  Mon Nov  4 10:52:42 2002
From: smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org (Jacob Smullyan)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 10:52:42 -0500
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
References: <cB12HJAlOlx9EwWy@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnasd5u7.sa5.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>

In article <cB12HJAlOlx9EwWy at jessikat.demon.co.uk>, Robin Becker wrote:
> Under 2.1 I used a version of the SimpleXMLRPCServer module that
> contained support for intermittent XMLRCPC via a class called
> CGIXMLRPCRequestHandler.
> 
> Under 2.2 it seems that SimpleXMLRPCServer has gone into the library,
> but the CGI support classes are gone. Anyone know of a replacement? This
> feature was really useful.

This is the xmlrpc server support module I use; it is based on code
from SimpleXMLRPCServer and scripts by F. Lundh and E. Kidd.  It
supports the standard system methods, and works with CGI and SkunkWeb:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/skunkweb/skunkweb/pylibs/xmlrpchandler.py?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup


From dieter.menszner at web.de  Sat Nov  9 03:07:20 2002
From: dieter.menszner at web.de (Dieter Menszner)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 09:07:20 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9b8hqa.eo3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqhmib$ei8$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <eppstein-DC177C.17122508112002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3DCCC238.6090304@web.de>

David Eppstein wrote:
> In article <aqhmib$ei8$2 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
>  Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Python is more like Lisp than most other languages, though.  It's
>>similar semantically.
> 
> 
> This makes little sense to me.  Even the most basic data structures are 
> different: Lisp is based around singly linked lists while Python uses 
> vectors (with efficient random access unlike Lisp lists) and 
> dictionaries.  They are also not especially similar in programming 
>

This is just wrong. To say 'Lisp is based around singly linked'
is similar as saying C is build around the ASCII character set.
Not totally wrong but ...

Common Lisp has built-in all the usual data types including
hash tables.





From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Nov  6 21:51:16 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:51:16 -0500
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in
 Python 2.4 and up
In-Reply-To: <Pnfy9.2862$h%5.101642@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEFKCHAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
>> Write it in a platform-independent way.  If you *intended* this 
>> literal to mean "a 1 bit followed by 31 zero bits", then stick an
>> L on the end of the literal.

[/F]
> ...and remove it again when you get to Python 2.5.

You can if you want.  The PEP continues to allow it until Python 3.0.



From chumphries at devis.com  Sun Nov 10 03:49:33 2002
From: chumphries at devis.com (Chris Humphries)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 03:49:33 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7h31y5uyj81.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <slrnasqf9a.mjr.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <qVcz9.25108$6b.985891@news2.east.cox.net> <3DCD6038.7E6EC76B@kolumbus.fi> <TGdz9.25269$6b.996605@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3DCE1D9D.48F393C8@devis.com>

where are you getting these "normal" definitions from? they
do not exist. probably the closest thing to that being standardized
is man style on *bsd, or the linux kernel coding doc about coding
standards for code (forget the name).

the people have enough of a time just keeping a language standard,
much less the syntax. i use C syntax of openbsd's man style, lisp
syntax that emacs uses, and python syntax i use at work that we
agreed to use.

standards are syntax are generally relative to what scope you are in
when actually coding, not as some universal rule.

-chris


Richard Dillingham wrote:
> 
> > > (if (a)
> > >     (if (b)
> > >         (if (c)
> > >             (asdf)
> > >             (zzzz)
> > >         )
> > >         (foo)
> > >     )
> > >     (bar)
> > > )
> > >
> >
> > (if (a)
> >     (if (b)
> >         (if (c)
> >             (asdf)
> >    (zzzz))
> >       (foo))
> >   (bar))
> >
> > Would be the normal way to write this.
> >
> > --
> 
> I know, but I personally find the way I wrote it to be easier to read.
> You'll also note that I didn't use the normal C coding standard in the C
> examples, and instead used the Java/C# standard (Which I prefer).
> 
> The normal C way to use {}s being:
> 
> if (a)
> {
>  asdf;
> }
> 
> etc.
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From peter at abbnm.com  Fri Nov 15 17:05:02 2002
From: peter at abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 22:05:02 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DD0113D.79EC23F6@earthlink.net> <3DD01596.A3420862@san.rr.com> <3DD01A21.2E4968D7@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ar3r2e$kr0@web.eng.baileynm.com>

In article <3DD01A21.2E4968D7 at earthlink.net>,
Benjamin Goldberg  <goldbb2 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > A binding isn't a procedure.

> That depends on your interface to Tk ... in perl, a binding *is* a
> procedure.

In Tcl it isn't. It's a string.

-- 
I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs
of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All
these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'
Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`


From maney at pobox.com  Sun Nov 24 18:16:14 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:16:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <9PvekLArvL49Ewa2@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <arqrso$b2j$1@wheel2.two14.net> <3GBMGUASiS49EwqD@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <arrmju$ba7$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <arqrso$b2j$1 at wheel2.two14.net>, maney at pobox.com writes
> ..... anything with a lambda is already doomed as the lambda time

Right, and that's the way I would normally have had to use them (before
list comprehensions came along)... and of course, that's why you're
asking for more non-lambda facilities.  The problem is that once you go
beyond a few basic operations, most or all of which have already been
implementated, there's a vast range of tests and translations, far too
many to implement them all in case they shuold be needed.

> dominates. As for the del I use it to remove the possibility that memory
> use from the first test will cause problems for the second etc

Of course.  I only remarked it because I thought it was a small error
that it was contained inside range of code that was timed, and then
because moving the del outside those ranges caused an easily visible
change for the map and comprehension test, but not for the explicitly
coded loop.



From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Nov 29 11:27:19 2002
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 08:27:19 -0800
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
References: <mailman.1038570941.14619.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <915a998f.0211290827.245c64b@posting.google.com>

Alfredo P. Ricafort wrote:

> It seems that when you define a data structure in the form of a List, Tuple, 
> or Dict., there is no way to give names to each element.

Dictionaries actually *must* be keyed by an explicitly provided key, often a string:

customer = {'name': 'Bob Smith', 'address': '12 Main St', 'TelNo': '768 8686'}
print customer['name']


Hamish Lawson


From ark at research.att.com  Wed Nov 13 14:45:20 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:45:20 GMT
Subject: Arrays?
References: <3dd2a4fc$0$28317$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <yu99el9ptfsf.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Taz> Hi all, right... wanted to create an array in my python program
Taz> (2 dimensional), but I dont think it can, o-rather it can, it
Taz> just doesnt call it an array (damm stupid thing :p)

Taz> So im  looking to creat a list? If so, how do I make it 2 dimensional?

The answer is likely to depend on what kind of computation you want
to do -- so can you give us a little more detail?

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Wed Nov 27 15:48:17 2002
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:48:17 +0100
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it> <3DE2893A.CCB631D6@jandecaluwe.com> <3DE449BD.1040503@something.invalid> <3DE48ECC.8FC9AE53@jandecaluwe.com> <B8WcnQH5q_B3kXigXTWcoQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3DE52F91.3DA4ED8F@jandecaluwe.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> "Jan Decaluwe" <jan at jandecaluwe.com> wrote in message
> news:3DE48ECC.8FC9AE53 at jandecaluwe.com...
> > Ok, let me explain better. Suppose - for the sake of the
> > argument - that I have a legitimate need for mutable numbers.
> 
> To me, the concept 'mutable number' doesn't 'compute'  very well.
> 
> A label or pointer that is attached to or points to different
> (eternally existing) numbers at different times (a 'variable') make
> sense, and we have such.
> 
> A container whose number contents change also make sense, and we also
> have that.
> 
> One could regard a count as a (changeable) collection of units, but
> that is similar to the above and can be modeled either with list or
> set/dict.
> 
> So what do you mean by mutable number, such that it could be needed
> but not available today?

Too long to explain here - really. I promise I will though (in another
thread, at another time). 

I propose to concentrate on the main point here: whether Python works
as promised or not. At this moment - and with your help - I believe
I can show it doesn't.

Regards, jan

--
Jan Decaluwe
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com


From neal at metaslash.com  Tue Nov 12 22:03:18 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:03:18 -0500
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD1AB92.3030409@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.13.03.03.13.245195.12688@metaslash.com>

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:32:02 -0500, Greg Ewing wrote:

> Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
>>  >>> def mkfoo():
>>  ...     from math import pi
>>  ...     def foo():
>>  ...         return pi
>>  ...     return foo
>>  ...
>> 
>> What would be best Pythonic practice for getting a foo2? It seems like
>> if there were a way to say "do this part once at compile time"
> 
> 
> It's not really compile-time that we want to do it, but module load
> time, or perhaps function definition time.
> 
> One way would be to use a default-argument hack:
> 
>     import math
> 
>     def foo(m = math):
>        return m.pi
> 
> but this has all the usual drawbacks of the default-argument hack.
> 
> This suggests that perhaps there should be a way of getting something
> that is just like a default argument, except that it's not part of the
> argument list. Maybe
> 
>     def foo():
>        const m = math
>        return m.pi
> 
> The "const" statement would be evaluated when the "def" was executed,
> and "m" would appear in the local namespace when the function was
> called.
> 
> Although "const" might not be the best name for it, since it's not
> really a constant, more like a local with an initial value.
 
You can *kinda* do this with 2.1 (at least) and up:

	>>> import math
	>>> def foo(): return foo.pi
	... 
	>>> foo.pi = math.pi
	>>> foo()
	3.1415926535897931

I realize this isn't exactly what you are asking for,
but it is a way that works today.

Neal


From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Nov 10 08:57:22 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:57:22 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: RE - non-greedy - some greediness - complete greediness
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.44.0211100950440.13296-100000@fjorir.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211101655110.1275-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Doru-Catalin Togea wrote:

Probably sgrep (Structure GREP) is up to the task. There are Python hook 
into sgrep.

> Hi!
> 
> I am working on a little project where i need REs with a self-defined
> level of greediness.
> 
> I am processing text in a Latex like manner, for those of you who are
> familiar with it.
> 
> I want to be able to recognize Latex-like commands within my text. A
> command starts with a character, say '\' followed by the command's name
> and followed by the text on which the command applies enclosed in curly
> brackets. Examples:
> 
> 	\footnote{some text}
> 	\cite{some referance}
> 	\section{some title}
> 
> Recognizing such patterns and retriving the name of the command and the
> text on which the command applies is not so difficult to achieve. Things
> get complicated though when one encounters nested commands.
> 
> Say I have the following string:
> 
>  "abcd \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl} mnop \footnote{hello there}"
>                                   ^     ^                           ^
>  closing bracket of nested \cite  |     |                           |
>     closing bracket of first \footnote  |                           |
>                                closing bracket of second \footnote  |
 

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Thu Nov 21 05:15:40 2002
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:15:40 +1000 (est)
Subject: python-dev Summary, 2002-11-01 through 2002-11-15
In-Reply-To: <20021120085035.28636.00000048@mb-bj.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0211212011230.9788-100000@tenring.andymac.org>

On 20 Nov 2002, TeaAndBikkie wrote:

> This restriction seems a bit unfriendly... is there any direction to getting
> python compilable on/for windows with an open source compiler, eg. gcc, mingw,
> etc?

As the timbot mentioned, Cygwin is actively supported, and someone is
looking into a MingW build.  I have used MingW to compile extensions for
the PythonLabs MSVC distro - did require a bit of library mangling to get
a usable Python DLL import library, but there are instructions on how to
do that.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From jfontain at free.fr  Thu Nov  7 02:29:22 2002
From: jfontain at free.fr (Jean-Luc Fontaine)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 23:29:22 -0800
Subject: tcl/python interaction problem
Message-ID: <4244613b.0211062329.12d7d601@posting.google.com>

I am the author of the tclpython library, which, as its names implies
allows the embedding of python code inside tcl scripts.
I recently moved to redhat 8.0, which includes python 2.2.1 and tcl
8.3.3.
When I recompiled the tclpython library, I found it hanging when
creating a new python interpreter from tcl, as in:

  package require tclpython 2
  set i [python::interp new]
  # the above just hangs (never returns)

The tclpython library used to work before with both python 1.5 and
2.0.
I could simplify the code and traced it to the following:

--- tcl/python test library code ---
#include <Python.h>
#include <tcl.h>
int Ppp_Init(Tcl_Interp *interpreter)
{
    PyThreadState *state;
    Py_Initialize();
    PyEval_InitThreads();
    state = Py_NewInterpreter();
    return Tcl_PkgProvide(interpreter, "ppp", "1.0");
}
--- tcl test code ---
$ tclsh
> load ./ppp.so
-- strace -e trace=signal ---
rt_sigaction(SIGPIPE, {SIG_IGN}, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRTMIN, {0x404f191c, [], SA_RESTORER, 0x400ea238},
NULL, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_1, {0x404f0c68, [], SA_RESTORER, 0x400ea238}, NULL,
8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_2, {0x404f19a4, [], SA_RESTORER, 0x400ea238}, NULL,
8) = 0
rt_sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK, [RTMIN], NULL, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGPIPE, {SIG_IGN}, {SIG_IGN}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGHUP, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGQUIT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGILL, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTRAP, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGABRT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGBUS, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGFPE, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGKILL, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGUSR1, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGSEGV, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGUSR2, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGPIPE, NULL, {SIG_IGN}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGALRM, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTERM, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGSTKFLT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGCHLD, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGCONT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGSTOP, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTSTP, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTTIN, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTTOU, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGURG, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGXCPU, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGXFSZ, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGVTALRM, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGPROF, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGWINCH, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGIO, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGPWR, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGSYS, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_3, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_4, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_5, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_6, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_7, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_8, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_9, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_10, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_11, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_12, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_13, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_14, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_15, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_16, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_17, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_18, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_19, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_20, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_21, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_22, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_23, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_24, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_25, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_26, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_27, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_28, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_29, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_30, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_31, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, {0x404f58c4, [], SA_RESTORER, 0x400ea238}, NULL,
8) = 0
rt_sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK, NULL, [RTMIN], 8) = 0
rt_sigsuspend([] <unfinished ...>
--- hung right above ---


Then I made a simple test program using the same code, but launched
directly through the command line, not via the Tcl interprepreter:

--- C test code ---
#include <Python.h>
int main(int argv, char **argc) {
    PyThreadState *state;
    Py_Initialize();
    PyEval_InitThreads();
    state = Py_NewInterpreter();
    return 0;
}
-- strace -e trace=signal ---
rt_sigaction(SIGRTMIN, {0x4002591c, [], SA_RESTORER, 0x4011d238},
NULL, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_1, {0x40024c68, [], SA_RESTORER, 0x4011d238}, NULL,
8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_2, {0x400259a4, [], SA_RESTORER, 0x4011d238}, NULL,
8) = 0
rt_sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK, [RTMIN], NULL, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGPIPE, {SIG_IGN}, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGHUP, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGQUIT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGILL, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTRAP, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGABRT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGBUS, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGFPE, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGKILL, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGUSR1, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGSEGV, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGUSR2, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGPIPE, NULL, {SIG_IGN}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGALRM, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTERM, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGSTKFLT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGCHLD, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGCONT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGSTOP, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTSTP, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTTIN, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGTTOU, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGURG, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGXCPU, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGXFSZ, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGVTALRM, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGPROF, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGWINCH, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGIO, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGPWR, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGSYS, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_3, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_4, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_5, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_6, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_7, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_8, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_9, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_10, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_11, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_12, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_13, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_14, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_15, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_16, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_17, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_18, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_19, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_20, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_21, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_22, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_23, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_24, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_25, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_26, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_27, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_28, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_29, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_30, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGRT_31, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, {0x400298c4, [], SA_RESTORER, 0x4011d238}, NULL,
8) = 0
--- program finished normally ---


As you can see, the rt_sigprocmask() and rt_sigsuspend() calls never
occur in the later case and the program exits as expected.
When it hangs, in the tclpython library case, I traced it to the
following instruction in Python-2.2.1/Python/pythonrun.c source file:

static void
initsite(void)
{
    PyObject *m, *f;
    m = PyImport_ImportModule("site"); // <<< hangs here <<<
    if (m == NULL) {
    ...

I am just guessing that the problem is related to signals and threads...
I would really appreciate any pointers or hints to solve this problem.

Many thanks in advance,

Jean-Luc


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Nov 15 10:10:39 2002
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:10:39 -0500
Subject: Accessing Dictionary values from within the Dictionary
References: <h10B9.797$v14.274678940@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>
 <mailman.1037366016.17160.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <v5Q19ks/K7SJ089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.1037366016.17160.python-list at python.org>,
pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard) wrote:
>Probably this would work for you:
>
>    dict = {'var1': 1, 'var2': 2, 'var3': dict['var1'] + dict['var2']}

I doubt it:


Python 2.1.3 (#35, Apr  8 2002, 17:47:50) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> dict = {'var1': 1, 'var2': 2, 'var3': dict['var1'] + dict['var2']}
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'dict' is not defined
>>>


   If the original poster had said *which* syntax error..

To the original poster:

   Consider just

dict = {'var1':1, 'var2':2}

   First the Python interpreter builds a dictionary using
the expression `{'var1':1, 'var2':2}`

   If this succeeds, then the interpreter associates the
dictionary object with the name `dict` in one of its own
symbol dictionaries.  So when you try to refer to the `dict`
dictionary within the expression that builds the dictionary
that later will be called `dict`.. you find there is no such
thing.

.. if you're lucky.  If there's a different object called
`dict` at the time your statement is executed, that will be
used instead.  That had better be what you want.

   It goes beyond Python .. most common computer languages
.. certainly the FORTRAN- or Algol-flavoured ones ,, work
this way.

        Regards.        Mel.


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov 26 10:22:44 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:22:44 -0600
Subject: Newbie IDLE - import issues
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302F89E6D@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Kenny Tilton [mailto:ktilton at nyc.rr.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:25 AM
> 
> sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> >>From: Kenny Tilton [mailto:ktilton at nyc.rr.com]
> >>Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:10 AM
> >>
> >>sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> >>
> > 
> >>>I can only say that this sounds like some module you're
> >>>trying to import isn't in your sys.path.
> >>
> >>no, but I supply the path:
> >>
> >>   import cells.cell
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Ahh! I *almost* know what's going on...
> > 
> > 
> .....
> > 
> > does the "cells" directory have a "__init__.py" file, even if
> > it's an empty file?  
> 
> yes, i had to sneak those in when I tried FROM in the hopes it would 
> solve the problem. first it didn't work, then i got those in 
> there and From /did/ work, so I am pretty sure that is all OK.
>

Hmmm... strange...

So I'll wait for more concrete info. :-)

-gustavo



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Nov 24 11:19:20 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 10:19:20 -0600
Subject: Regular expression question
In-Reply-To: <9a5f3d1c.0211240636.7614b51a@posting.google.com> (jonah13579@hotmail.com's
 message of "24 Nov 2002 06:36:02 -0800")
References: <9a5f3d1c.0211231857.78125e43@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1038109173.3313.python-list@python.org>
	<9a5f3d1c.0211240636.7614b51a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2znrzkkjb.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Jonah" == Jonah  <jonah13579 at hotmail.com> writes:

    Jonah> Thanks for the well-thought out response.  I was wondering
    Jonah> whether a function map would be necessary.  I know that in
    Jonah> a production environment, the line I use gives the user too
    Jonah> much power, but I use this for my own purposes, and I
    Jonah> control the source and the script.  As for thinking in
    Jonah> python, I'm still at the very earliest stages of looking at
    Jonah> python (and ruby for that matter) as a possible replacement
    Jonah> for/addition to perl.

You can forgo the function map and instead use a single function
'process' as a dispatcher, to lower case WHATEVER and eval a call to
the lowered string

import re

def whatever(v):
    return 'WhAtEvEr' + v

def want(v):
    return 'WaNt' + v
    
def process(m):
    variable = '!'  # your $variable
    return eval(m.group(1).lower() + '(variable)')

print re.sub('%%(.*?)%%', process, 'I will do %%WHATEVER%% you %%WANT%%')

The extra overhead is much lower.  It has the downside of using the
eval, but you seem aware of these risks.

With thought, this could probably be converted into a one liner as in
perl, but that is not usually an instinct around here, except for
didactic purposes of course.

John Hunter



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Nov 14 05:09:47 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:09:47 -0800
Subject: Visual programming, looking for graphics layer
In-Reply-To: <20021114073103.7797.84412.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021114073103.7797.84412.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18CGyx-0005Ri-00@pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi Ian,
On Wednesday 13 November 2002 11:31 pm,  Ian Bicking wrote:
> After implementing a little Logo interpreter, I wanted to do
> something more novel and interesting, like
> Boxer. ?In the extremely likely case you don't know anything about
> Boxer, the website is at:
> 
> ? http://www.soe.berkeley.edu/boxer/
> 
> It's a neat teaching language, where it has some graphical ways to
> present programming structure. ?Sadly its only available for Macs, and I
> don't know if development is active. ?But I've put up a little graphic
> taken from one of the papers (and fixed up a bit) to give a feel:
> 
> ? http://colorstudy.com/tmp/boxer-capture.gif

I've always been interested by visual metaphors for programming (I've never 
found one of actual practical use to me, but I keep hoping to -- there's a 
couple, like "overflow" that I want to spend some time to learn).  Anyway,
that's fairly interesting  (not really enough information on the web pages to 
form a real opinion, though -- might have to dig deeper).

> The hard part is that this sort of layout is fairly hard to do. ?Not
> only do you have text inside different sorts of boxes, but an important
> part of the language is that you also have non-text literals (like
> colors and shapes, and even lists may be represented in a graphical
> fashion). ?All these need to be manipulatable.

Most of these things seem like fairly common GUI widgets to me -- the sticky 
part is probably editing them interactively.

> I'm hoping to get some advice or pointers on something already available
> that can make this easier. ?I could use pygame, maybe even with pyui,
> but that's still a long way from what I'd have to do for even the most
> minimal functionality. ?I've also had a hard time understanding pyui's
> architecture -- there's something magic in there and I can't tell where
> things actually get *done*... but I'm sure that's surmountable. ?Maybe
> that's where I should be looking.

I've been tinkering with PyUI (trying to implement the AWT renderer so it can 
be used in Jython -- following up the browser applets thread I started a few 
days ago).  Clearly, I'm not an expert yet, but I plan to spend a lot of time 
with it -- maybe we can figure it out together?

Briefly, it appears to me that a PyUI renderer starts up and calls a program 
to run under PyUI using that renderer. The program creates widgets to respond 
to various events. At that point, the program idles, waiting for events 
posted from the renderer to PyUI's events mechanism which drives the 
modification of the GUI model inside of PyUI. The model is rendered to the 
display by the renderer. Interestingly, it doesn't really appear to matter 
whether the renderer polls for events or catches events (as in interrupts).  
The renderer is pretty simple, and just has to handle drawing and catching 
the events. So far the most complicated thing seems to be fonts.

I'm not sure what exactly you meant by "things" and "done", but I hope that 
summary is helpful in some way.

The one thing I find frustrating with PyUI (as it is now), is that many of 
the primitive data structures "rect", "pos", "font" aren't really very well 
defined.  I'm not sure if this is a problem for the application programmer, 
though.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Nov 13 17:19:44 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:19:44 -0600
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302DB4E4D@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Cameron Horn [mailto:camhorn at mac.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:20 PM
>  
> On Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002, at 02:16PM, David Eppstein 
> <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> >On 11/13/02 2:11 PM -0800 Cameron Horn <camhorn at mac.com> wrote:
> >>> What I wonder is, why does it need to be a generator?  
> What's wrong with
> >>> def foo(): return ( )
> >>> ?
> >>
> >> You're right if it's a one-time thing.  However, if I've got a
> >> scaffolding like this, then it matters.
> >>
> >> def process_generator(function):
> >>    for x in function():
> >>       print x
> >
> >How does the function foo() I defined above fail to work in this 
> >scaffolding?
> 
> In the "TypeError: iteration over non-sequence" sort of way.
>

An empty tuple is a sequence also;

the "return ( )" thing is returning an empty tuple,
not "None".  You can make it clearer by using
"return tuple()" rather than "return ()".

-gustavo



From rodrigobamboo at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 19 11:07:51 2002
From: rodrigobamboo at hotmail.com (Rodrigo B. de Oliveira)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 08:07:51 -0800
Subject: Python embedding question: how to expose a new "builtin"?
Message-ID: <ad9ea6f1.0211190807.73bfe1a1@posting.google.com>

I've built an ISAPI module that allows .py files to be executed by IIS,
everything is working fine and the performance is great. Now I want to
expose an object in such a way that every imported module could see it, I
tried the following code but it didn't quite work:

<snip language="C++">

PyObject* __builtin__ = PyImport_ImportModule("__builtin__");
PyObject_SetAttrString(__builtin__, "application", (PyObject*)_pyapplication);
Py_DECREF(__builtin__);

</snip>

Notes:
    * _pyapplication is an instance of a C new style class

The problem is: the modules can see the name "application" but
dir(application) returns [] and if I try to access any of  application's
attributes I get an AttributeError.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
Rodrigo B. de Oliveira

PS: the ISAPI module will go Open Source in a few days...


From paul at boddie.net  Wed Nov  6 10:23:38 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 07:23:38 -0800
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0211060723.22fd36bc@posting.google.com>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>...
> 
> it seems that only those with sufficient muscle can force this on the
> world eg Sun/IBM/M$. They can clearly see the need to support only one
> backend. 

...each. ;-)

Well, I suppose Sun and IBM are sort of sharing.

Paul

P.S. Projects like Parrot only really tend to succeed if they either
produce results quickly enough for casually interested parties or have
enough direction and motivation for the prolonged period of time that
they aren't producing highly usable output. Despite hearing about
Parrot occasionally, I'm not so sure that Parrot exhibits either of
these properties, but it would be nice to be proved wrong.


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov 13 18:34:05 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:34:05 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de> <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <3DD0D765.3030907@web.de> <3DD16CAF.41214BBA@alcyone.com> <m2el9qjd0f.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3DD1DE6A.1BBEFE5A@alcyone.com> <m2adkdk8ig.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3DD2E16D.6831402D@alcyone.com>

Paul Foley wrote:

> I know.  But, as I said, Scheme and Lisp are very different languages.
> I.e., Scheme is /not/ a good introduction to Lisp (and vice versa),
> any more than, say, INTERCAL is a good introduction to Java :-)

Again, that's why I said "Lisp-like languages," not Lisp.  After all, if
I were so inclined, I could turn the nitpicking apparatus back onto you:
Which variety of Lisp do you mean when you say Lisp?  There are a great
number that are not only "Lisp-like" but actually have the word _Lisp_
in their names.

> [What do you mean by "Lisp-like language" anyway?  Python seems pretty
> Lisp-like to me...]

Languages that look and act like Lisp.  One might argue that Logo
qualifies (as a once-removed cousin), but I don't see how you can really
argue that Python looks and acts like Lisp.  If Python is Lisp-like then
what isn't?

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.
\__/ Oscar Wilde
    WebVal / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/webval/
 URL scanner, maintainer, and validator in Python.


From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 17:36:14 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:36:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Question about print format?
In-Reply-To: <uslonkijj2aq66@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20021107223614.57256.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com>

Actually, I want to get a neat list of information
about index,sybol,binding_file,to_file (which are 4
columns). The attachment is my program and the output
I want and I got. Could someone help me with this
output format stuff?

Thanks very much!





=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
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From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov  4 01:36:09 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 06:36:09 GMT
Subject: import Image vs from PIL import Image vs import PIL.Image
References: <aq4uo1$68o$0@216.39.172.122> <MPG.182fa8894c1bdc50989685@news.nw.centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <aq54gp$kin$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:42:11 -0800, Brian Lenihan <brian_ at yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <aq4uo1$68o$0 at 216.39.172.122>, bokr at oz.net says...
>> I backtracked and took alternate routes and hacked here and there on the way
>> to the goal, so there were probably numerous places where something could have
>> gone wrong, but it seems to work if -- and here's where my question comes in --
>> I put 'from PIL ' in front of the import statements in documentation examples.
>
>The examples assume you have a PIL.pth file in site-packages.
>
>Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import Image
>>>> Image.core
><module '_imaging' from 'C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\PIL_imaging.pyd'>
>>>> 
>
>C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages>cat PIL.pth
>PIL

Thanks, but that wasn't the problem. I had caused it with hacking detritus.

 Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import Image
 >>> Image.core
 <module '_imaging' from 'D:\python22\lib\site-packages\PIL\_imaging.pyd'>
 >>> ^Z

 [22:20] C:\pywk\pilt>cat D:\python22\lib\site-packages\PIL.pth
 PIL

But I notice an interesting difference in the name and place of the dll. Yours
is right under site-packages\ as PIL_imaging.pyd and mine is under
site-packages\PIL\ as _imaging.pyd. Did you install via the binary installer?

BTW, if the effbot is lurking, I would offer a patch to Image.py which would
have made what I did to myself more obvious:

--- D:\pilbuild\Imaging-1.1.3\PIL\Image.py      Thu Mar 14 11:55:04 2002
+++ D:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py  Sun Nov 03 22:07:31 2002
@@ -35,8 +35,13 @@

 class _imaging_not_installed:
     # module placeholder
+    def __init__(self, reason):
+        self.reason = reason
     def __getattr__(self, id):
-        raise ImportError, "The _imaging C module is not installed"
+        raise ImportError(
+            "The _imaging C module is not installed because:\n"
+            "%s" % self.reason
+        )

 try:
     # give Tk a chance to set up the environment, in case we're
@@ -53,8 +58,8 @@
     import _imaging
     core = _imaging
     del _imaging
-except ImportError:
-    core = _imaging_not_installed()
+except ImportError, e:
+    core = _imaging_not_installed(str(e))

 import ImagePalette
 import os, string, sys


Regards,
Bengt Richter


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Nov 27 09:11:09 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 15:11:09 +0100
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <7h3adjvqgs4.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <j4r8d79k76.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> > Yes, you guessed right, out of pure curiosity: is this list
> > accessible from Python? 
> 
> Don't think so, as the list only exists during compiling and you can't
> hook into it or only execute one phase of it.

To some degree, you can find out by looking at co_names, and removing
all names which are also in co_varnames (both are attributes of the
code object).

Of course, you can't tell afterwards if a global name was considered
global because there was no assignment to it, or whether there was a
global declaration. Also, globals that are not used don't appear in
co_names.

HTH,
Martin



From patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au  Wed Nov 20 23:57:31 2002
From: patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au (Patrick W)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 15:57:31 +1100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <87wun7tt8k.fsf@key.localdomain>

Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:

> [...] But I for one am porting my Cells project:
> 
>    http://www.tilton-technology.com/cells_top.html
> 
> ...to Python /precisely/ (a) to swim in a bigger pond (uh, pond with
> more fish?) and (2) because there is (I hear) a x-platform GUI,

Several in fact.

> TKinter. And it's fun learning a new language, recommended so highly
> by a CL worthy such as Norvig.

Not trying to twist your arm but in case you weren't aware of it, Qt
(and PyQt) is just as portable as Tkinter (on platforms that matter)
and has a few advantages (snappier performance, more 'native' look,
more (and IMO, better) widgets, easy integration with opengl, stable
and reliable, distributed under 'free' or commercial licences,
arguably more popular in industry, etc).  They guy who maintains PyQt
(the Python bindings to the Qt C++ libraries) does a great job of
keeping up with the latest Qt releases.

Perhaps worth a look if you haven't checked it out already.

http://www.trolltech.com (for info on Qt)
http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/index.php (for PyQt)


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 25 08:28:33 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:28:33 GMT
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it>

Jan Decaluwe wrote:

> Hi:
> 
> I'm confused by the following behavior of new-style classes
> and operators:
> 
>     class MyInt(object):
>         def __init__(self, val):
>             self.val = val
>         def __getattr__(self, attr):
>             return getattr(self.val, attr)
> 
> 
>> python
> Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 16 2002, 19:59:11)
> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> from MyInt import MyInt
>>>> a = MyInt(3)
>>>> a.__add__(4)
> 7
>>>> a + 4
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: unsupported operand types for +: 'MyInt' and 'int'
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think is can be the intention. Or can it?

Yes it can.  The idea is that operators should rely on special
methods defined by the TYPE (class) of the object they're working
on, NOT on special methods defined just by the OBJECT itself and
not by its class.  Doing otherwise (as old-style classes did, and
still do for compatibility) is untenable in the general case, for
example whenever you consider a class and its metaclass (given that
the metaclass IS the class object's type, no more and no less).

So, for example,  a + b  now looks for a potential __add__ special
method, NOT in a itself, but rather in type(a)  [except, for
compatibility, when a instances an old-style class].  I had some
difficulty understanding that, early on in the lifecycle of Python
2.2, but when the notion "clicked" I saw it made a lot of sense.

So, to wrap an arbitrary object X in such a way that X's special
methods will be used by any operator, you need to ensure you do
the wrapping with a _class_ that exposes said special methods.
That's generally easiest to do with a factory function with a
nested class that uses inheritance, but you have many other choices
depending on what exactly you're trying to accomplish.


Alex



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Nov  7 14:20:29 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:20:29 -0000
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list@python.org> <slrnasj332.v3h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <j465v93g42.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnasl7n2.d1h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <j4k7jpz0qf.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnaslf7t.33l.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <j4k7jpz0qf.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de>, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
>> > I would still recommend to use 0x8000000L instead; it saves you one
>> > computation, and is more readable.
>> 
>> But that *won't work* on later versions of Python! 
> 
> How do you know? Later versions of Python have not been released!

Because PEP237 tells me so ;-)

>> It means I will have a line in my code which I know will suddenly
>> stop working at some point in the future and I will have to make a
>> new release and everyone will have to upgrade their copies of my
>> module just because I put in code which I knew wasn't going to work.
> 
> Yes, provided your code is still in use when that happens.

Ooh, bitchy.


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Nov 24 16:59:41 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:59:41 +0100
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net><743utuoi3l31t8e8tt9v3sncosuk2gqi02@4ax.com><1239.92T1047T4844497threeseas@earthlink.net><mailman.1038067952.28943.python-list@python.org><4992.92T2618T9825720threeseas@earthlink.net> <mailman.1038089193.29900.python-list@python.org> <9655.93T1847T6905169threeseas@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <arriee$e27$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:34:56 GMT, "Timothy Rue"
<threeseas at earthlink.net> wrote:

>On 23-Nov-02 17:05:04 John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
>>This scenario was repeated many times, and it took me a long time to
>>learn that when you are the client, you need to tell them what you
>>need to do, not how to do it.
>
>Not in this case, for I cannot do that. It'd simply take to long for me to
>give all the infinte examples of possibilities. Therefore that only leaves
>what?

Use the sequencer:

http://home.hccnet.nl/a.vredegoor/sequencer

It provides infinite possibilities, and if nothing else it should be
able to confuse a lot of people. It surely does confuse me :-)

Anton.


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov  8 06:49:54 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:49:54 GMT
Subject: Newbie-list-problem: how to supress constraining  2 lists - a=b ?
References: <813cfe33.0211080235.5d4b8c9e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <CxNy9.8476$XO.358592@news2.tin.it>

HugOnline wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm a Python - newbie and I can not solve the following problem:
> 
>>>>a=[8,7,6,5,4]   # set this list to a
>>>>b=a             # I' want to have two same lists: a and b
>>>>b.sort()        # b should be sorted
>>>>print b         # it's ok
> [4,5,6,7,8]
>>>>print a
> [4,5,6,7,8]        # but a is sorted, too !!!
> 
> How can I suppress the constraining of a and b? I want to have in the
> result two list - a unsorted and b sorted. Is there a switch to supress
> it?

When you want a copy, you ask for a copy.  There are MANY
ways to ask for a copy of a string:

b = a[:]

b = list(a)

b = [item for item in a]

import copy
b = copy.copy(a)


etc, etc.


Alex



From roccomoretti at netscape.net  Sat Nov  9 18:35:33 2002
From: roccomoretti at netscape.net (Rocco Moretti)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 15:35:33 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
Message-ID: <ff133276.0211091535.47871cf2@posting.google.com>

"Johannes Gr?dem <johs+n at ifi.uio.no> wrote in message news:<lzznsipz4s.fsf at unity.copyleft.no>...
> * Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu>:
> 
> > Python uses infix notation for math.  Most humans were brought up to
> > understand infix.
> 
> Because Lisp has a powerful macro system, it is actually possible to
> have an infix-macro, which lets you use infix-syntax.  And you can
> write macros to support all sorts of weird syntax, if you want.

I've heard this argument a number of times, and have never really
bought it. To me it seems equivalent to saying "Because (Brainf*ck/
Intercal/ Unlambda/ Malbourge /etc) are Turing Complete, you can write
any program in them." Sure, you *can*, but why bother?

It's the same reason why using lists and dictionaries are so much
better in Python than in C. Sure, you *could* write your own type and
various accessory methods to do the same thing, but why should you
have to deal with the boilerplate code to make the language do it?

It's doubly hard when beginning Lisp books only teach the prefix
notation - the beginner could change it, but who, thus thouroghly
vexed, has the stamina to wait until chapter 23 to learn how? That's
why the common rebuttal directed toward Lisp critics is that they
don't *really* know the language. Lisp is a powerful language, but you
have to have the patience and the masochism to make it all the way to
chapter 23.

If-I-wasn't-lazy-I-would-be-doing-it-longhand


From cliechti at gmx.net  Thu Nov 14 15:25:14 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 22:25:14 +0200
Subject: simple rsh and python question
References: <d453156a.0211141053.7de1422@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92C6E4477BF46cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

rwadkins at flash.net (Randy Wadkins) wrote in 
news:d453156a.0211141053.7de1422 at posting.google.com:

> Is there any way to rsh from a shell script to nodes in a cluster and
> execute a python script that will run in the background on each node? 
> It appears that the execution is stopped once the rsh command is
> completed.

>   rsh x$ python myscript.py "&"

look up "nohup". otherwise any programm attached to the terminal are 
terminated when the terminal is closed. (HangUP signal)

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 15 00:15:58 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:15:58 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <m2wunfh1y4.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <ar1buq$1ib4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <m2wunfh1y4.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <200211150515.VAA19770@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Thursday 14 November 2002 20:49, Paul Foley wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:33:33 -0800, Russell E Owen wrote:
> > On the other hand, I like zip just fine (though I lament the lack of an
> > unzip counterpart).
>
> Eh?  Zip is its own inverse!

Hmmm...

Python 2.2.2 (#4, Oct 15 2002, 04:21:28) 
>>> a = [1,2,3]
>>> b = ['a','b', 'c']

>>> zip(a,b)
[(1, 'a'), (2, 'b'), (3, 'c')]

>>> zip(zip(a,b))
[((1, 'a'),), ((2, 'b'),), ((3, 'c'),)]

>>> c,d = zip(zip(a,b))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: unpack list of wrong size

So, not quite.

But, after some thought, I see that you mean this (which is cool):

>>> c,d = zip(*zip(a,b))
>>> c
(1, 2, 3)
>>> d
('a', 'b', 'c')

ie. it's its own inverse, if you consider some extra syntax (and getting 
tuples, not lists).

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Nov 20 13:00:22 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 18:00:22 GMT
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <arfgtg$fhj$1@Fourier.suse.de>  <7kf83526.fsf@python.net> <yCdNHXAYn229Ew6X@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <argijm$1sds$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>:
| In article <7kf83526.fsf at python.net>, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net>
| writes
...
|> Unfortunately it won't work this way.
|>
|> Think of call_some_c_code() being the C standard library's qsort
|> function, and call_back_into_python() is the function pointer I gave
|> qsort to do the comparison. There's no way to pass the thread state to
|> the callback function!
|>
|> Storing the thread state in a global variable would be possible, but
|> in this case it wouldn't be thread safe, I assume, and *only* work if
|> the callout into C is done by my extension module.
| ....
| I think there's an issue here though. If the ctypes call is started in
| thread A then it makes sense to ensure that thread A receives the
| callback. Of course this is moot when only one python thread is running.
| Perhaps this is the mainthread only issue with tkinter and the like.

The callback will happen in thread A, of course (unless it doesn't,
but that's a separate question.)

In _my_ code that supports multithreaded callbacks, the callback has
access to its original thread state and uses it in PyEval_AcquireThread(),
but that isn't a requirement as far as I can see.  One (OS) thread can
set up as many new (Python) thread states as it requires on its way in
and out of the interpreter, subject to availability of the resources
involved (massive recursion might pose a problem.)  They're just a
mechanism to avoid internal concurrency.

I call PyEval_InitThreads in my modules.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From mayhew at cis.ohio-state.edu  Wed Nov 13 18:29:06 2002
From: mayhew at cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Mayhew)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:29:06 -0500
Subject: Newbie response, was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and
 Scheme aren't?
References: <20021111084619.3410.38803.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1037073499.730.python-list@python.org> <aqr28i$4ok$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <3DD2E042.5070801@cis.ohio-state.edu>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:55:27 -0800, Terry Hancock
> <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
> 
> There's a lot of truth in this, as in the other part's of your -
> greatly appreciated - post, but I would like to add that it's often
> not possible for language designers to design a language that is not
> *considered* difficult and that is also not difficult in a more
> objective sense. We are living in a world where drinking brown colored
> and fizzling water with added sugar and artifical taste producing
> chemicals out of an aluminium (!) can is considered to be more natural
> than just drinking water.
> 
> Regards,
> 		Anton.


I concur with my esteemed colleague and I appreciate your post Mr. 
Hancock considering that I myself am an established newbie. (I can't 
seem to stay put either!) As a newbie to both Python and the open source
community that the patience of the user and, more importantly, 
forum-frequenting community has helped motivate me to learn and better 
hone my open source skills while simultaneously granting me that warm 
and gooey feeling one only gets from being a part of something special 
and larger than oneself. Anyway, I'm off to consume mass quantities of 
brown colored and fizzling water with added sugar and artificial taste 
so that I can stay up and code in Python! ;-)

Michael



From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov 10 05:34:50 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:34:50 GMT
Subject: indexed looping, functional replacement?
References: <3fe406f0.0211091037.2795e538@posting.google.com> <9Xcz9.15450$XO.672555@news2.tin.it> <aqkd4m$qed$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <aql2r0$q2g$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <eDqz9.17073$XO.784552@news2.tin.it>

Bengt Richter wrote:
    ...
> also a lazy zip, to avoid building lists you don't use (untested beyond
> what you see ;-)
> 
>  >>> from __future__ import generators
>  >>> def xzip(*args):
>  ...     for i in xrange(min(map(len,args))):
>  ...         yield tuple([x[i] for x in args])
>  ...
>  >>> for f,s in xzip(fl,sl):
>  ...     f(s)
>  ...
>  f1: bbb
>  f2: sdf
>  f3: sdw

I think that xzip can be simplified a bit -- as code, the for
statement is threateningly complex, and the tupleization of the
yielded sublists just a bit of conceptual and runtime overhead,
for most practical purposes.  So, I might code it, instead:

def xzip(*args):
    iters = map(iter, args)
    while True:
        yield [x.next() for x in iters]

the key idea here is that the first iterator to run out will
let the fact be known by raising StopIteration, and xzip just
lets that exception propagate, thus in turn letting its caller
know that xzip has also run out of items to iterate on.


Of course, the semantics are slightly different.  The original
xzip needs arguments that are sequences (i.e., can be passed to
'len', and indexed by integers 0 and up), while this simpler one
accepts arguments that are iterable (can be subjected to iter).
All sequences are iterable, but not vice versa (file objects open
for reading, for example, are iterable, but not sequences).

So, for example, this simpler xzip could be used to print out
a textfile's lines with numbering:

for line, linenumber in xzip(open('the.txt'), xrange(sys.maxint)):
    print '%d: %s' % (linenumber, line),

while the original would die with a TypeError if used in this
way (the file object can be iterated on, but not indexed, nor
can it be passed as the argument to built-in 'len').  However,
it seems to me that the simpler xzip's greater generality is
not a substantial problem -- simplicity IS nice to have.


Alex



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Fri Nov 29 10:01:15 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:01:15 +0100
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
In-Reply-To: <20021129141954.GA1876@hishome.net>; from oren-py-l@hishome.net on Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 09:19:54AM -0500
References: <1038571003.6023.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20021129141954.GA1876@hishome.net>
Message-ID: <20021129160115.C11257@prim.han.de>

Oren Tirosh wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 07:56:44PM +0800, Alfredo P. Ricafort wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I'm quite new to Python.  So far I find it to be easy to learn and
> > simple to program.  However, one thing that I missed, especially someone
> > coming from C language, is 'struct'. It seems that when you define a
> > data structure in the form of a List, Tuple, or Dict., there is no way
> > to give names to each element. 
> ...
> > Now my problem is that when the structure of the record change, your
> > index has to change also. So in the example above, when the 'Name'
> > element is moved(say as the 3rd element - Customer[i][2]), then you have
> > to look all over your code and change accordingly. 
> > 
> > My question now is, how can I assign names to the elements? Or is there
> > a better way of doing this?
> 
> Many Python programmers use an empty class for this:
> 
> class Struct:
>     pass
> 
> s = Struct()
> s.name = "John Doe"
> s.phone = "555-5127"
> etc. 
> 
> It has no predefined structure - you can add any field you like and use
> the same class for different types of data. You can delete attributes 
> with a del statement (e.g. 'del s.phone') and test for the presence of 
> an attribute using hasattr ('if hasattr(s, "fax"):')

Additionally using

    class Struct:
        def __init__(self, **kw):
            self.__dict__.update(kw)

is also a nice idiom. You can then say

>>> one = Struct(name='guido', phone='5555')
>>> one.name
'guido'
>>> one.phone
'5555'
>>>

regards,

    holger



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Fri Nov  8 03:16:37 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 10:16:37 +0200
Subject: Getting SSL certificate
References: <aeGy9.15988$6b.572415@news2.east.cox.net> <m3smycjztc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <kuisz8bhne.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <m3smycjztc.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>,
martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) writes:

| "Stuart D. Gathman" <stuart at bmsi.com> writes:
|| The httplib modules supports SSL, but does not check certificates.  

| It would, if you would pass key_file and cert_file arguments to
| HTTPSConnection. Atleast theoretically; I doubt this has been tested
| much.

what do these arguments do? i had been under the impression
that key_file is for sending a client certificate, and cert_file
was for a certificate authority that the server cert should be
checked against. but it is a faint impression :)

in case it is so, this still does not let you at the server
certificate...

  -- erno


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Thu Nov 21 11:03:52 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:03:52 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <87wun7tt8k.fsf@key.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3DDD0445.4000502@nyc.rr.com>


Patrick W wrote:

> Not trying to twist your arm but in case you weren't aware of it, Qt
> (and PyQt) is just as portable as Tkinter (on platforms that matter)

Is this a reference to it not being available for the Mac? Tiny share, 
yes, but it matters. Kinda like CL. :)

> Perhaps worth a look if you haven't checked it out already.

Thx for the lead. I gather the non-commercial Qt is pretty decent? Is 
that just licensing/support/add-ons? ie, It is otherwise current with 
commercial Qt? (The Qt site wanted my life story before it would take me 
to the pricing page. <g>)

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From newsfroups at jerf.org  Tue Nov 19 00:12:31 2002
From: newsfroups at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 05:12:31 GMT
Subject: classifier systems re-coded in Python?
References: <mailman.1037670692.6438.python-list@python.org> <182dnaFhsdyUN0SgXTWcrg@comcast.com> <dwiC9.53310$Lg2.15307128@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.19.00.12.09.986806@jerf.org>

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 03:48:25 +0000, Robert Oschler wrote:
> Terry,
> 
> Is google() a real command from some Python module, or were you just being
> Programmer-ish? If it's from a module, is it PyGoogle, or something else?
> 
> thx

To my knowlege, that's not a function in any python module, but perhaps it
should be. I think you'll find this implementation meets the specs:



import urllib
import webbrowser

def google(s):
    webbrowser.open("http://www.google.com/search?" + \
        urllib.urlencode({"q":s}))

google('Holland learning classifier Python')



From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Nov  7 12:23:51 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:23:51 -0500
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in
 Python 2.4 and up
In-Reply-To: <slrnasl7n2.d1h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHAEAIDOAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Martin v. L?wis]
> I would still recommend to use 0x8000000L instead;

I recommend another trailing 0 <wink>.

> it saves you one computation, and is more readable.

[Jon Ribbens]
> But that *won't work* on later versions of Python!  It means I will
> have a line in my code which I know will suddenly stop working at some
> point in the future and I will have to make a new release and everyone
> will have to upgrade their copies of my module just because I put in
> code which I knew wasn't going to work.

There's no code you can write today that's guaranteed to work in Python 3.0.

In the Python 2 line, do as Martin keeps suggesting you do.  Note that the
line about adding warnings for long literals in 2.5 has been removed from
the PEP.





From theller at python.net  Thu Nov 14 07:26:20 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 13:26:20 +0100
Subject: windll event loop leaks
References: <wc5tAKABi409EwqD@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <smy4xrpv.fsf@python.net>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> Hi, I'm trying to implement a calldll/windll backend for the anygui
> project. I have working code, but it leaks so I'm looking for assistance
> with how one should program/debug such a loop.
> 
> My test prog is a simple blank window. Using process explorer I can see
> that the working memory increases when I just move the mouse around over
> the window.
> 
> For comparison I tried Sam Rushing's dynwin/button.py and lo and behold
> it also leaks.

Sounds like a leak in calldll?

So the only advice is to build a debug version and run it with a
debugging build of Python to either use

- the (undoumented) sys.getobjects() function to find leaking objects.
- or step through calldll's code with the MSVC debugger.

You should be able to find some messages on python-dev were Tim Peters
explains what getobjects() does.

Another approach ;-) would be to give up calldll/windll and try the
ctypes module - this way you would have me debugging the thing (in
case it leaks).

Thomas


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Fri Nov 22 20:56:37 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:56:37 -0800
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <m8nmra.tk4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Donn Cave fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 22 November 2002 
10:01 am:

> 
> Sure, but that's just the first O in OOP.  Objects have attributes,
> anyone can penetrate this mystery.  The question is, given the initial
> statement of a programming problem, like ``turn MIDI data into a
> printed score'', where do the objects come from and how do they help?
> If your grasp of Python is strongly OO, you'll find answers that you
> can explain, but you probably won't be able to explain how you found
> them.  We don't think by enumerating facts about the tools we use.
>
        Very sloppy requirements -- Are we talking a live MIDI instrument 
stream or data file; one instrument track or multiple?

        However, the courses/books I have on OO Analysis/Design (regardless of 
target programming language) tend to focus on Nouns and Verbs 
(noun->object, verb->method, and extending some what, 
adjectives->attributes).

        turn (verb) MIDI data (noun) into (accessory verb?) a printed 
(adjective? or more likely a verb) score (noun).

        So from that simple statement we have two objects already:

score

MIDI data

        In truth, I would consider the analysis faulty... the primary object 
is the NOTE, which has attributes of pitch and duration. Both the 
printed score and the MIDI data are equivalent representations of a 
stream of notes. There is the next object; the stream -- probably more 
familiar as a "track". What does a track have for attributes? Well, 
maybe an instrument (or voice), and a list of notes. I'd revise the 
definition of score now to include multiple parallel tracks.

So now I have:

SCORE (attribute: track(s), track count)
TRACK (attribute: voice; attribute: note(s))
NOTE (attribute: pitch; attribute: duration)

        No methods listed yet... I suspect the easy ones would be:

SCORE: add new track; delete track
TRACK: add note; delete note; set voice
NOTE: set(pitch, duration); get(pitch, duration)

        Little more analysis would probably give me an object for MIDI stream, 
and an object for Music printer.

        The MIDI stream object would have methods for GetEvent, SendEvent.

        The Music printer would have attributes for staves/page, notes/bar, 
etc. Methods for getting/setting those parameters, and for feeding 
voice/track and note information.

        The main processing would be a loop getting events from the MIDI 
stream and parsing them into needed score, score.track, 
score.track.note methods. At end (of file, or some manual interrupt for 
live streams) run a loop over the score object retrieving the notes and 
feeding them to the printer object.


        Now, this is a very sloppy analysis -- what do you expect for a 20 
minute effort (the OOA/OOD classes ran some 40 hours each, and seldom 
got more detailed than a calculator or ATM/bank/user configuration).

> So the first challenge may be to learn to think in Python, but then
> you need to learn to think beyond it.
>
        Whereas I prefer to "think in" the abstract, and /then/ apply 
transforms to map the abstract constructs to the target language.

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Mon Nov 18 02:55:56 2002
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:55:56 GMT
Subject: popkey() method for dictionaries?
References: <ar7i50$3ib$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <f9068f8e.0211170458.541bfeba@posting.google.com> <ar8rge$rer$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1037569703.8212.python-list@python.org> <ar97b6$514$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <g21C9.10147$br6.5755@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>

> [ 639806 ] Optional argument for dict.pop() method
>
> at:
>
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=639806&group_id=54
70&atid=105470
>
> Sorry but I just saw that my proof-of-concept code in python got squashed
by
> SF. I didn't know that SF removed all leading whitespace, hence destroying
> indentation. Here it is again for reference:

Do you have use cases demonstrating the value of a default rather than an
exception?

Also, discuss why similarity with dict.get() applies instead of symmetry
with list.pop() or dict.popitem().


Raymond Hettinger




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Nov  5 08:44:33 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:44:33 +0100
Subject: GUI with blocking database access
References: <5ec37a54.0211050322.e663b54@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aq8i5l$kro$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 5 Nov 2002 03:22:06 -0800, scheff at bigfoot.de (Tim Scheffler) wrote:

>Dear all,
>
>I would like to construct a GUI to access an external database.
>Unfortunately I have to use a (non-opensource) python dll (WIN32)
>module provided by the database to write/read from/to it. If I/O is
>done via this module all execution is stopped if I try to run it in a
>separate thread in the GUI.

Can you get any I\O at all? I have had some success using Cygwin and
popen2 for buffered I\O and some trouble with using Windows 98 Python
for the same script. My situation is a bit different from yours I
think because I am on Windows 98 and I\O is broken for that platform
to begin with. The problem in my case is that I want to use pipes
between two console apps and have a python script in the middle to
communicate with the two apps. Luckily I have the sourcecode for the
console apps so I could in principle insert some flush calls in the
code and unblock I\O this way. Unluckily the console apps are large
and obscure so I had to write a smaller app for testing purposes.

>
>Does somebody have an idea how to construct a GUI, that can trigger
>such an I/O module? I thought about to run two separate processes on
>WIN-NT one that provides the GUI and one that runs the I/O and let
>them communicate through a pipe or something like that. But here I
>dont know how to start two processes from one python script as fork()
>wont work on WIN-NT.

Popen2 can have multiple pipes open at same time even on Windows 98.
It's just a problem to have the apps flush stdout. On cygwin this
problem does not exist I think.

If you can compile, this can be used as a test program:
(project3.cpp for Borland C++ Builder 4, adjust for your compiler)

#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <conio.h>

int main(void)
{
        char input[100];
        char finish[10];
        int i = 1;

        strcpy(finish,"quit\0");

        while(i!=0){
        scanf("%s",&input);
        printf("%s\n",input);
        i = strcmp(input,finish);
        flushall();
        }
        return 0;
}


For gcc the corresponding flush() call would be fflush(stdout).

Use this python script to test popen2 I\O on windows or cygwin:
(for cygwin insert "./" or something like that in the executables
path)

import os
from string import strip

def process(s, inf, outf):
       outf.write("%s\n" %s)
       line = inf.readline()
       return strip(line)

def test():
    outf,inf = os.popen2("project3.exe")
    outf1,inf1 = os.popen2("project3.exe")
    line = process("hello",inf,outf)
    line1 = process(line,inf1,outf1)
    print line1
    process("quit",inf,outf)
    process("quit",inf1,outf1)

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

>Any help is deeply appreciated.

I hope this helps. I am not sure I read your question correctly
however since I am a bit drained by jobhunting activities. Isn't
calldll used to communicate with dll's rather than creating processes
via popen2? You seem to be able to open one process though so I went
for it.

Good luck!

Anton.


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Mon Nov 25 23:36:15 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:36:15 +1300
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3DE2FA3F.8010006@something.invalid>

Richard Dillingham wrote:

> It doesn't have ()s, so it ain't two tuples. Easy enough, da?


Sorry, it's not that easy. Commas make tuples in Python,
not parentheses. Try this if you don't believe me:

   a = 1, 2
   print a

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 21 09:00:02 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:00:02 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037828015.2000.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3isyrt4ar.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

nandrats at mail.mdanderson.org writes:

> I thought that this is a python list where every kind of language
> related question can be posed. But this thread in my opinion is
> getting out of range.

It's hard to stop people posting to a thread they're interested in.

This thread is pretty on topic compared to some -- we haven't had any
discussions about esperanto or trans-finite cardinals or what sort of
water pasta is best cooked in.  python-list tends to go in for wildly
off-topic threads.  I don't mind, because they're usually pretty
interesting.

> Besides, I really think that this is a very friendly list, but right now, I'm
> getting more emails about this thread than really relevant mails for a newbie!

This however suggests you need a better way of reading this list.
Having all of the traffic for this list slam into one's inbox would be
pretty bad, I imagine.

The best way to read it, IMHO, is as a newsgroup.  If your
organization or ISP has a news server, just point your news client at
it and ask for comp.lang.python.  Same content as the list, but news
readers usually have convenient interfaces for "I don't want to see
this thread" and such.  If you don't have easy access to a news
server, but do have internet access, you can point your news reader at
"news.gmane.org" and ask for (I think) gmane.comp.python.general.

If your stuck getting it as email, you want to persuade something in
the email delivery chain to divert messages with the header:

List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>

to a special python-list mailbox.  From headers, you seem to be using
Lotus Notes (could be wrong), in which case you have my pity, and I
can't help you with this bit.

Hope that helped!

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  First of all, email me your AOL password as a security measure. You
  may find that won't be able to connect to the 'net for a while. This
  is normal. The next thing to do is turn your computer upside down
  and shake it to reboot it.                     -- Darren Tucker, asr


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 20 09:41:21 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:41:21 GMT
Subject: how does import work ?
References: <2259b0e2.0211200633.2ed7e075@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <laNC9.31997$744.1183146@news1.tin.it>

Michele Simionato wrote:
   ...
> Suppose now I import ONLY the function f2, but not f1:
> 
>>>> from f1f2 import f2

That's basically equivalent to:
    import f1f2
    f2 = f1f2.f2
    del f1f2
except that if you already had an f1f2 identifier it's not disturbed.

> therefore Python has imported f1 too, but is some hidden way, since
> f1 is not in the current namespace dictionary:

Of course not, but it's in sys.modules['f1f2'] 's namespace, right
where it should be.

> This behavior is quite confusing to me, somebody can explain what is
> happening ?

HTH...


Alex



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov 27 00:29:14 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:29:14 -0500
Subject: simple problem with running scripts
References: <mailman.1038320918.3470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE4582A.6302DD61@engcorp.com>


nandrats at mail.mdanderson.org wrote:
> 
> I've the following problem with Win98:
> 
> When I open a script with IDLE, it's possible to execute it.But when I open it
> in a different environment (like wscite) and try to start it, I always get the
> error message:
> " pythonw -u xxxxx.py Application not found". I assume that I have to set some
> environment variables? I tried to include my python path to PATH in
> autoexec.bat, but no luck.

Can you show what you tried adding to PATH?  Or just type PATH and 
post the results here.  It should work fine that way.  There's
nothing special about the pythonw.exe: it's in the Python folder 
with the rest of the stuff.

Have you checked the FAQ?

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq08.018.htp

-Peter


From writeson at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  6 10:29:30 2002
From: writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 07:29:30 -0800
Subject: wxPythonGTK and Python2.2.1 problems on RedHat 8.0
Message-ID: <88bc63c6.0211060729.183dbd8e@posting.google.com>

Hi all,
 
We just installed RedHat 8.0 on our servers and we're having a problem
with Python. The system comes with Python2.2. I installed wxPythonGTK
(what's currently available as a binary on wxpython.org) and ran into
some trouble. One of our other engineers is working on a system using
Python and wxPython for an application. She has been working on
Python2.2 (latest release from the python.org site) and
wxPython2.3.2.1, which was previously available on the wxpython.org
site. Her application worked fine under that setup on RedHat Linux
7.3. However, now the splitter window won't show it's contents with
the setup I described above for Linux 8.0 and wxPythonGTK. Does anyone
have any idea how I might fix this or what is going on?
 
Thanks,
Doug Farrell
Scholastic, Inc
 
dfarrell at grolier.com


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 26 21:30:32 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:30:32 -0800
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net> <1038264655.1697.137.camel@software1.logiplex.internal> <mailman.1038272196.32714.python-list@python.org> <as0m7t$leu$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <8oa1sa.vq3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Martijn Faassen fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 26 November 
2002 12:40 pm:


> 
> Interestingly, people have been calling him ruebot since before he
> posted on comp.lang.python; try google searches (or google groups
> searches) for him and you'll see they've been calling him ruebot
> since at least '99.
>
        As I recall, he was a bit of a pain in comp.sys.amiga.* too. My oldest 
archive (that I can access; older stuff is likely in an Amiga generated 
LHA archive on CD) is mid 1998.


-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From kbass1 at nc.rr.com  Tue Nov  5 19:22:45 2002
From: kbass1 at nc.rr.com (Kevin Bass)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 00:22:45 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question: Sockets
References: <a_Xx9.45531$ku2.2717764@twister.southeast.rr.com> <slrnase1hp.b0s.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <phZx9.45806$ku2.2737094@twister.southeast.rr.com>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:slrnase1hp.b0s.grante at localhost.localdomain...
> In article <a_Xx9.45531$ku2.2717764 at twister.southeast.rr.com>, Kevin Bass
wrote:
>
> > I am attempting to process data within a socket. The socket establishes
=
> > communications on both servers but the data does not come out the way =
that
> > I want it. How do I store the retrieved data into an array or = another
> > value? If there are multiple values, how can I store this = information?
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > client.py
> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> Enough with the MIME stuff already... :)
>
> Since you don't say what's wrong, (and I don't care to run your code and
try
> to figure out what it's supposed to do) I'll take a guess: You're using a
> TCP/IP connection and you expect it to act like a datagram service when
it's
> actually a byte stream service.
>
> There are no record boundaries in TCP/IP.
>
> One end may call send() four times with 25 bytes each time.  The other end
> may receive that data as a single 100 byte chunk, as 5 20-byte chunks, or
as
> 100 single byte chunks.
>
> ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>
> And for the love of Usenet, ditch the HTML...
>
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  The FALAFEL
SANDWICH
>                                   at               lands on my HEAD and I
>                                visi.com            become a VEGETARIAN...

Thanks for responding. :) I will try to be a little more clear this time :)

I received the results of  'The received data is  Mousey MooMousey MooMousey
MooMousey MooMousey MooMousey MooMousey Moo' when executing my socks. I
hoped to get the result of ''The received data is  Mousey Moo'

I have limited the number of bytes received in my code (data =
conn.recv(50)) and I have recieved favorable results. I received the results
of 'The received data is  Mousey Moo'.

Can the received data be placed into another value should as an array or
list?





From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 12 15:27:28 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:27:28 -0800
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ?
References: <44ee1dc2.0211120501.2c9e3215@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <g7orqa.sq3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 
12 November 2002 05:01 am:

> with Re : in Subject line, with groups.google, it DIDN'T place in the
> thread, but as a separate message( new thread, NOT answer In a thread
> ). Now trying with NO Re : in the subject

        Well, I'd suggest finding a real newsserver, and using a real news 
client -- instead of some web based gateway...

        I can't answer for google, I don't use it for anything except web 
searches.


-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk  Tue Nov 26 07:16:25 2002
From: -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk (Paul Wright)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 12:16:25 -0000
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no> <artvr3$cbe$2@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <arvomp$1vh$1@verence.demon.co.uk>

In article <artvr3$cbe$2 at wheel2.two14.net>,  <maney at pobox.com> wrote:
>David Brown <david at no.westcontrol.spam.com> wrote:
>> correctness.  This particular "feature" is a huge source of bugs and
>> frustration in C programming - mixing up "=" and "==" in conditions is
>> probably the biggest single cause of C program bugs.  Python, on the other
>
>Are you speaking from experience, or is this as well-founded as the
>hysterical wails about how Python's use of indentation is just wrong? 
>It certainly isn't remotely near my own experience (which covers a bit
>more than two decades, during much of which C was used more than
>anything else).

This is a regular question on comp.lang.python. There's another thread
on this where I've posted some statistics from a study which found that
that feature caused errors roughly once in every 3000 lines of code:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9q171k%244lq%241%40verence.demon.co.uk>

Assignment in expressions is banned in C written for some safety related
applications for that reason.

-- 
Paul Wright | http://pobox.com/~pw201 |


From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Wed Nov 27 11:07:30 2002
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 16:07:30 GMT
Subject: using com object written in python from iis/asp
Message-ID: <as2qk2$s28ig$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Hi,

I wrote a python script for the implementation of a
com server. If I use a python script as client, everything
is o.k. But if I try to contact the com object from an ASP 
script, I get:

   Python COM Server Internal Error- Fehler '80004002' 

   Unexpected Python Error: exceptions.ImportError: No module named com_planefit 

due to the "--debug" option I get further information:

    Object with win32trace dispatcher created (object=None)
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\server\dispatcher.py", line 27, in _CreateInstance_
	self.policy._CreateInstance_(clsid, reqIID)
      File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 199, in _CreateInstance_
	myob = call_func(classSpec)
      File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 634, in call_func
	return apply(resolve_func(spec), args)
      File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 623, in resolve_func
	module = _import_module(mname)
      File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 642, in _import_module
	  __import__(mname)
    ImportError: No module named com_planefit

The COM object is registered as 'PlaneFit', the serverscript is named 'com_planefit.py'.

Can anybody help me ???

Greetings, Uwe


-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt      Computer science is no more about Computers,
uwe.schmitt at num.uni-sb.de      than astronomy is about telescopes. (Dijkstra)
http://www.procoders.net           


From graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk  Tue Nov  5 07:20:05 2002
From: graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk (Frodo Morris)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 12:20:05 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
Message-ID: <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk>

Daniel Pfeiffer wrote:
> Hi,
> Apache would essentially have a mod_parrot.  Maybe, if this can be tested very hard, we'd even have a Parrot kernel module for all Unices supporting that.  Then exec() could perform compiled scripts right away, like machine code :-)
Gah!  Scary line-wraps!
Anyway, I would have thought that a more platform-independent version of 
this would be, say, a parrotd, which sits on top of the kernel, 
intercepts calls to exec() bytecode and spawns the relevant processes. 
I may be wrong.  This parrotd system would also help in projects like 
Beowulfs (although why you'd be using byte-compiled languages in 
parallel computing is beyond me), because you could use inetd or similar 
to spawn a parrot when data was received on a certain port.

Just my ?0.02
-- 
FM



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Nov 11 22:40:53 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 21:40:53 -0600
Subject: newbie Q: shortcuts for long module names?
In-Reply-To: <3DD076B1.B0A5CA12@alcyone.com>
References: <Vs_z9.47492$Lg2.13559342@news2.news.adelphia.net> 
	<3DD076B1.B0A5CA12@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <1037072453.2707.2267.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Mon, 2002-11-11 at 21:34, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Try
> 
> 	import this.is.a.long.module.name as name
> 
> or
> 
> 	import this.is.a.long.module.name as somethingElse

or
  from this.is.a.deep.package import name


  Ian




From sanjay2kind at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 12:26:41 2002
From: sanjay2kind at yahoo.com (sanjay)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 09:26:41 -0800
Subject: HTML parser problem
Message-ID: <63170f57.0211070926.50387a9f@posting.google.com>

Hi,

 Any one has suggestion for following problem. Some word documents
have been converted to HTML page in Ms-Word. Want to filter html tags
like..
<o:p></o:p>,
<![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]>
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />, etc. I couldn't solve
using SGMLParser.

Thanks,
Sanjay


From fdsdfs at dasdsa.com  Thu Nov  7 09:26:56 2002
From: fdsdfs at dasdsa.com (ffdsfdsfds)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:26:56 +0100
Subject: variable name lookup
Message-ID: <aqdtbk$311f$1@vishnu.jussieu.fr>

Hi,
I would like to know which method of the dictionary object
is used for the lookup of variables at execution of the bytecode.\

Thanks.
                        SB


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 23 08:48:30 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:48:30 -0500
Subject: rss.py for win32.
References: <Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP@195.112.4.37>
Message-ID: <vdWdndYr6YGgGUKgXTWcpg@comcast.com>

"Dave Pawson" <dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP at 195.112.4.37...
> http://orchard.sourceforge.net/doc/RSS-parser.py
>
> Appears to be *nix only.

Why do you think that?  The string 'nix' is absent from both the main
and overview pages.  A quick look at the code referenced above and the
ones it imported revealed no unixisms that I could see.

> Has anyone seen a win32  version please?

Have you tried it on a Win system?  If there are any particular
problems, I imagine the Orchard developers would want to know.

Terry J. Reedy




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Fri Nov 15 10:33:07 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:33:07 +0000
Subject: Seeking advice on locking iterators
References: <pfg7tuoefe0vp6vo2oj2p66vm1o3tdtb86@4ax.com> <3dd3fa25$0$13656$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl> <d73atukrbs4778s9pbd9r9beuo8aijro91@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <qk4atug28lossrfkaflilla5j39sa54nms@4ax.com>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:12:15 +0000, Gon?alo Rodrigues
<op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:29:49 +0100, Ype Kingma <ykingma at accessforall.nl>
>wrote:
>
>>Gon?alo Rodrigues schreef:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> My problem is the following: I have a top object Application, roughly
>>> corresponding to the main thread, that spawns some child threads -
>>> objects on their own sake, deriving from the Thread class in the
>>> threading module. They communicate when they need to via queues in the
>>> usual way. So far so nice.
>>> 
>>> The problem is that those same child objects expose some public
>>> attributes (or properties, or methods, does not matter) that the
>>> Application object may need to change/call and doing the change via the
>>> queue mechanism is conceptually wrong (and a real PITA). The solution is
>>> obvious: wrap the attributes with locks around it. What is not so
>>> obvious is when these attributes are complex objects themselves, in
>>> particular they are iterables. In order to call iter() on these objects
>>> safely I coded the following helper class:
>>> 
>>> #WARNING: Brittle - use this at your own risk.
>>> class TIter(object):
>>>     """The TIter helper class, wrapping an iterator for thread safe
>>> acess."""
>>> 
>>>     def __init__(self, lock, iterator):
>>>         super(TIter, self).__init__(lock, iterator)
>>>         self.__lock = lock
>>>         self.__iterator = iter(iterator)
>>>         #Acquire lock => You cannot change the underlying structure
>>>         #while iter not exhausted.
>>>         self.__lock.acquire()
>>>         self.__acquired = 1
>>> 
>>>     #Iterator protocol.
>>>     def __iter__(self):
>>>         return self
>>> 
>>>     def next(self):
>>>         try:
>>>             ret = self.__iterator.next()
>>>         except StopIteration:
>>>             self.__lock.release()
>>>             self.__acquired = 0
>>>             raise StopIteration
>>>         else:
>>>             return ret
>>> 
>>>     def __del__(self):
>>>         if self.__acquired:
>>>             self.__lock.release()
>>> 
>>> The idea is that for the wrapping of a given attribute one has an
>>> associated lock (a reentrant lock, usually) that is passed to the ITer
>>> constructor. I have to ensure two things, though:
>>> 
>>> * The lock is acquired while the iterator is alive.
>>> * The lock is released when the iterator is disposed of.
>>> 
>>> So, finally, my question is: Is the above enough to ensure this? Can I
>>
>>In general, no. Some reasons:
>>One can never be sure from the code shown when the __del__ method will be 
>>called, since this depends on when the last reference to the iterator goes 
>>out of scope.
>>Although CPython more or less guarantees that the __del__ method will be 
>>called quite soon after the last reference goes out of scope, the language 
>>by itself does not make such a guarantee. In Jython, you are at the mercy
>>of a separate a garbage collecting thread in the JVM to call the __del__ 
>>method, ie. it might take more than a few million CPU cycles before the 
>>__del__ method is called.
>>
>>> be sure that __del__ is called if the iterator is garbage collected
>>> before being exhausted? Or is there a better (e.g. safer) mechanism for
>>> this?
>>
>>
>>One safe way is:
>>
>>yourObject.lock()
>>try:
>>    # use an iterator on yourObject.
>>finally:
>>    yourObject.unlock()
>>    # and don't use the iterator again.
>>
>>Ie. I don't see the point of locking the iterator, as you seem to want to
>>lock an object, ie. one the attributes you mentioned above.
>>
>
>I want to lock the iterator because I want the wrapped object to have
>the same interface as the object it wraps.
>
>>The lock() and unlock() methods need to be added to the class of yourObject 
>>for this to work.
>
>Anyway I think I have found a solution: The problem lies in the fact
>that the object I am iterating over and the iterator itself can be
>different objects => while the iterator acquires the lock it may get
>garbage collected before it releases it. Therefore I just wrap the
>object in a way that the wrapper is its own iterator and the problem
>disappears.
>>

Actually the problem does not disappear completely since the iterator
itself may still get confused if some thread in the middle of some
iterating decides to alter the structure. A bit like the
altering-the-structure-of-an-iterable-while-iterating-over-it problem.
And for *that reason* I do have to add lock/unlock methods. Oh well.
Just goes to show the importance of the Queue module when dealing with
threads...

>>Have fun,
>
>I am. Python *is* fun.
>
>>Ype
>
>With my best regards,
>G. Rodrigues

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From maxm at mxm.dk  Fri Nov 15 03:40:29 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (maxm)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:40:29 +0100
Subject: Variable names on the fly?
References: <3dd3f5fd$0$28311$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DD4B2FD.3090306@mxm.dk>

e-tones.co.uk wrote:

> Hi all, does python allow the creation of variable names on the fly, more
> importantly lists.

You can most certainly generate variable names on the fly, but most 
likely you don't want to!

If you get into that habbit, you risk overwriting some of the built in 
names or overwriting class attributes. Especially if you get user input. 
So don't pick up that habbit.

lists and dicts are there so you don't have to.

regards Max M



From alessandro.bottoni at infinito.it  Sat Nov  2 07:00:54 2002
From: alessandro.bottoni at infinito.it (Alessandro Bottoni)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 13:00:54 +0100
Subject: Textbooks on Perl/Python
In-Reply-To: <niNw9.75632$TD1.3404688@news2.tin.it>
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036226184.12174.python-list@python.org> <niNw9.75632$TD1.3404688@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <200211021409.gA2E9MO02208@mail2.infinito.it>

Alle 10:55, sabato 2 novembre 2002, Alex Martelli ha scritto:
> > BTW, this would be an opportunity to write such a book, maybe as a
> > collective effort coordinated by the educational SIG (special interest
> > group) of python, maybe starting from the very good book of Alan Gauld.
> > This approach could cope with the small market available for the book.
>
> And where would you find the volunteers, experienced AND happy
> with both Perl and Python, to do the writing?  Quite a few
> Pythonistas do have Perl experience, but few have any _liking_
> for it (there are surely exceptions, such as our homonym who's
> now working for our previous employer, but I have my doubts that
> there are enough of them...).

Right! I was thinking to a book completely devoted to Python, actually.

>
> > (Here, I suppose you need a book devoted to programming with Perl or
> > Python, not a book on creating language interpreters).
>
> A book with a definitely-tiny market BUT perhaps enough enthusiasm
> level among prospective authors to make it a reality would indeed
> be one explaining how to write interpreters in C and Java, using
> Classic Python and Jython as the worked-out examples;-).

I agree. I bought a few different books regarding compiler and interpreters 
building and I never found a really _usable_ one. It would be the kind of 
work I greatly appreciate. I met (on the net) someone who was writing a book 
on interpreter building based on Java (both as the implementation language 
and the target one). I asked him about the expected publishing date two years 
ago and he told me that it was late. Maybe now it is available...

---------------------
Alessandro Bottoni




From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Nov 25 14:38:53 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:38:53 -0800
Subject: Multi Recipients With smtplib?
References: <mailman.1038231874.18339.python-list@python.org> <NrqE9.83869$iw.18048@FE06> <mailman.1038237274.26597.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d8utra.sq3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

John Abel fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 25 November 2002 
07:14 am:

> Sorry for the confusing question, but you got the gist of it (Phew!).
>  I'm pulling the list of addresses out of .ini file, e.g.
> 
> mailfrom=me at mydomain.org
> mailto=you at yourdomain.org,me at myotherdomain.org
> 
> Basically, what I was doing, was passing the mailto value to
> .sendmail().  The header seem correct (viewed via Mozilla, with
> headers set to all), which is what was confusing me.
>
        The "header" is transparent to actual SMTP interfacing. The actual 
SMTP handshake would look like:

HELO mydomain.name
MAIL FROM: from at address
RCPT TO: address at one
RCPT TO: address at two
...
DATA

        By just using a comma separated string you are generating a single

RCPT TO: address at one, address at two...

which is not accepted.


        Most email clients do extract the recipient addresses from the 
"envelope" headers, but that is convenience. One could generate

RCPT TO: address at one
RCPT TO: address at two
...
RCPT TO: address at fifty
DATA
From: you at localhost
To: addresses at world
Subject: Trace this spam

If you can!
.
QUIT


-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Nov 11 06:28:34 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:28:34 +0100
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
In-Reply-To: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com>; from Paul_Rudin@scientia.com on Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 09:38:42AM +0000
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com>
Message-ID: <20021111122834.T30315@prim.han.de>

Paul Rudin wrote:
> 
> I'm having a little play with python, just to try it out; and one
> thing that I find I miss from other languages is something like lisp's
> if:
> 
> (if x y z)
> 
> which returns y if x is true and z otherwise.
> 
> I realise that I can define a function that does this for me; but is
> there a succinct way of expressing this in the base language?

for me  

  x and y or z

basically does what you want.  But you *need* to be sure that 'y'
is true.  some people don't like this 'abuse' but many use
it on a regular basis (without big problems i'd say).

regards,

    holger



From mgerrans at mindspring.com  Fri Nov 22 02:58:33 2002
From: mgerrans at mindspring.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:58:33 -0800
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <mailman.1037912012.3283.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arko42$vnp$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>

I disagree.    I've learned a number of languages and Python was by far the
fastest.   This was probably due to the fact that it is not just easy to
learn, but also fun.   Also, the aid of the interactive prompt facilitates
quick learning immensly.  An intelligent and motivated person should be able
to zip through "Learning Python" in two or three weeks to get a start and be
quite proficient in just a few months practice.

Of course, after a few years when you go back and look at the early stuff
you wrote when you first learned it, you will find cleaner and more
idiomatic ways of doing some things, but this phenomenon is by no means
unique to Python.




From jbauer at rubic.com  Wed Nov 27 09:32:21 2002
From: jbauer at rubic.com (Jeff Bauer)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:32:21 -0600
Subject: Get yesterday's date
Message-ID: <3DE4D775.EAFD3185@rubic.com>

Michel, you can use my NormalDate module:

http://starship.python.net/crew/jbauer/normaldate/

  >>> from normalDate import ND
  >>> today = ND()
  >>> yesterday = today - 1
  >>> yesterday
  20021126
  >>> 

Regards,

Jeff Bauer
Rubicon Research


Michel COMBE wrote:
>I need to run a SQL query on a MySQL database to get yesterday's records.
>How do I specify "yesterday" ?
>Isn't there some kind of date arithmetic in Python or should I use an
>external library ?
>Which library ?
>
>Thanks for your answer



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 14:50:46 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:50:46 -0700
Subject: power TypeErrors
References: <mailman.1036639269.847.python-list@python.org> <7h3ptthzlf0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqe8t4$ffa$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <7h31y5xyzgx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqeg6n$jqi$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Michael Hudson wrote:

> What specific problems involve complex input or
> output?

Side post (I'd already replied). A simple, specific example:

In [1]: import scipy

In [2]: scipy.roots?
Type:           function
Base Class:     <type 'function'>
String Form:    <function roots at 0x82fbccc>
Namespace:      Currently not defined in user session.
File:           /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/scipy/basic1a.py
Definition:     scipy.roots(p)
Docstring:
     Return the roots of the polynomial coefficients in p.

    The values in the rank-1 array p are coefficients of a polynomial.
    If the length of p is n+1 then the polynomial is
    p[0] * x**n + p[1] * x**(n-1) + ... + p[n-1]*x + p[n]

In [3]: scipy.roots([1,0,1])
Out[3]: array([-0.+1.j,  0.-1.j])

These are just the roots of the trivial 'x^2+1=0'. Both complex (+/-i, in 
usual notation).

>> but I can tell you that python is gaining very stronng support in
>> scientific computing.

>Given what I hear of IDL, this doesn't surprise me :)

Indeed, hating IDL is one of the things that drove me to python. While IDL has 
admittedly nice graphics libraries, the language _SUCKS_ like nothing I've 
ever seen. It's absolutely, positively horrible. I'm glad I don't use that 
thing anymore.  Pyhton+IPython+(Gnuplot/Grace)+Mayavi is a far more pleasant 
environment.

Cheers,

f.


From malik_martin at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 27 05:27:43 2002
From: malik_martin at hotmail.com (malik martin)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 05:27:43 -0500
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
Message-ID: <F152taJVVumMKKECBlG0000212d@hotmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20021127/adccd24a/attachment.html>

From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Nov 17 18:37:04 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:37:04 +1100
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A74E@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> I understand that this thread has gone in a couple of different
> directions.  Just to be clear, I'm talking about python and addressing
> your assertion that modern compilers/computers obsolete the necessity
> for programmer-requested inline functions.  I am talking about
> 'inline'ing code solely for the purpose of speed; avoiding the
> function call/stack overhead for small operations.

Yes - but this is a completely separate issue. The question asked was about
"inline functions". Inlining code is not an *inline function*.

Python has no concept of *inline functions*.

> The example I gave was the first one that occured to me, and not at
> all dissimilar from things I've done in the past.  If the python
> compiler was supposed to inline that (being a modern compiler and all)
> then it failed.  I wouldn't mind if I could do "inline def(...):", but
> I can't.

The python compiler does absolutely no optimisations unless you use -O, and
even that is simply removing cruft that is *added* to aid developers. And
the difference is going away almost completely in 2.3.

This boils down to "if you are worried about the performance of your
program, then Python may not be the right language for you".

There are of course *idiomatic* optimisations in Python - and explicitly
inlining code because you know the performance characteristics of Python
name lookups and function calls is one. However, it is even more idiomatic
not to worry about such performance characteristics until they prove to be a
problem.

But none of this has anything to do with *inline functions* which is what
the original poster asked about. A language which (supposedly) gets so close
to the metal as to expose the implementation details of the code produced
(such as via an "inline" hint) *should* these days have highly-optimising
compilers. If your compiler does not have such optimisations, then the
"inline" hint is probably useless. If it *does* have such optimisations,
then the "inline" hint is also probably useless.

Humans have been shown time and again to be exceptionally bad guessers as to
what needs optimising. As such, humans should concentrate on making their
code as clear and readable as possible, and let the automated systems (such
as a compiler) work out what is the best optimisation.

And yes, I have produced *highly* optimised code in Python (two orders of
magnitude improvement in performance over the naive implementation). In each
case, the majority of the performance improvement was by improved algorithms
(most importantly, only doing things when you absolutely have to). Using
optimisation "tricks" (inlining code, using default parameters for function
names to avoid global lookups, etc) have only been used in one particular
project (a coverage tool) where absolute best possible performance is a
requirement (and the final result is an overall increase in runtimes when
run under the coverage tool of around 50%).

Tim Delaney



From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Sun Nov  3 10:03:47 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 16:03:47 +0100
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg> <slrnas4p25.e4j.TuxTrax@fortress.tuxnet> <aptuq0$uec$1@news.netpower.no> <30770aa4.0211020028.1434bd34@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aq3dsg$l0s$1@news.netpower.no>

Comments below...

"TuxTrax" <bogusdrop at myself.com> wrote in message
news:30770aa4.0211020028.1434bd34 at posting.google.com...
> "David Brown" <david at no.westcontrol.spam.com> wrote in message
news:<aptuq0$uec$1 at news.netpower.no>...
> > "TuxTrax" <TuxTrax at fortress.tuxnet.net> wrote in message
> >
> > >
> > > Your comments reveal a thoughtful and curious approach that is quite
> >  healthy.
> > > It also reveals a world view that has in large part been shaped by the
> > > philosophies of proprietary software companies.
> > >
> > > Is a python compiler available for linux? I don't know. I do know that
no
> > > Linux users I know would even consider using one. It would never cross
our
> > > minds to make our source closed to others. This is where the whole
open
> >  source
> > > software movement takes a completely different world view. In open
source
> > > software, you retain the right to make a profit from your work, while
> >  still
> > > granting others the right to copy, distribute, modify and view the
source
> > > code. Just a year ago, this whole concept was horrifying to me. I
could
> > > not concieve of allowing others to have free access to my source code.
As
> > > a Long time windows user, I had some un-learning to do. But unlearn I
did.
> > > I started thinking in terms of the advantages of open source. First,
it
> >  keeps
> > > you honest; you write your best code because you know that your peers
are
> > > going to be seeing it all over the world. Second, with open source,
once
> > > you release it, other programmers may modify it helping it to become
more
> > > than you ever could have made it on your own (unless you choose to
forbid
> > > the modification of your code, but that's another subject). Third, the
> > > distribution of your product using the open source community, has no
> >  equal,
> > > and will cost you nothing. You can provide support to your users via
> > > that same community at little or no cost to you, and support is the
number
> > > one ongoing cost that software developers get saddled with. You can
use
> > > the resources of such organizations as the free software foundation to
> > > defend your copyright (don't let the "free" in FSF throw you; you can
> >  still
> > > market your product using the GPL licence).
> > >
> > > And finally, you get to give something back. This is a philosophical
point
> > > for me, but giving something back to the community that you benefit
from,
> > > whether it be your local community, or the computer community, is very
> > > important for us as people. It is a common and refreshing view that
you
> > > will find in the open source world, and one reason that I left the
> > > windows world for good. But thats a soapbox for another time. <grin>
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Mathew
> > >
> >
> > I think you are making the mistake many "born again" open-source
advocates
> > make, and one that many anti-open-source people also make.  There is
plenty
> > of place in the world for both open and closed source software.
>
> Indeed this is true. Did I leave you with the impression that I was
> saying
> anything against closed source? The fact is I happen to agree with
> you, but
> shamelessly took an oppotunity to pitch the case for open source since
> the OP seemed not to have considered it.
>

Your comments *did* leave me with the impression that you were advocating
writing open-source software to the complete exclusion of closed-source.  It
was the "I do know that no Linux users I know would even consider using one.
It would never cross our minds to make our source closed to others" that did
it.  If you were just exagerating the one case to counter arguements in
favour of the other, then I guess that's fair enough.  But it certainly
looked like fanatisism to me, and that's never good for your cause.

> > In some situations, one is far better than the other
>
> OK.
>
> > in some cases either will do
> > the job.  Saying that everything should be open source is as bad as
saying
> > everything should be closed source.  It's a common misunderstanding
about
> > Linux ("Software companies should not write for Linux because then they
> > would have to give away all their source code...").
>
> And it is a common misconception (perpetuated by some proprietary
> software houses) that open_source == zero_profit. The fact is, open
> sourcing the program will not negatively impact the profitablility of
> the product. This flies in the face of conventional wisdom, but such
> companies as red hat have proven the business model.
>

True.

> At any rate, I don't believe I said everything should be open source.
> I did not intend to imply it.
>

Again, I think you did imply it (hence my first posting), but it looks like
we have actually have a pretty similar view on open- and closed- source
development.

> > Consider, for example, the program I am writing at the moment.  It is in
> > Python - a language whose licence is very clear in stating that all
> > Python-licenced code can be used in open and closed source software
(keeping
> > copyright messages intact).  The program provides a gui for an embedded
> > motor controller card, and our customer is paying good money for me to
write
> > the program.  He intends to sell the cards on to his customers, with
this
> > controller program to go with it.  In the future, he will want a bigger
> > version of the program (supporting several cards simultaneously).  He
may
> > well want to charge his customers for that software upgrade.  He
certainly
> > won't want his customers to have full access to the code - they may
modify
> > it for use with other supplier's motor cards.
>
> fine. Then make a license agreement that forbids the modification of
> the code for use with other brands of motor control equipment. That
> has nothing to do with open sourcing it. When you open source your
> code, you provide greater value to your customers, because you give
> them the power to meet future needs as they expand, by applying the
> same codebase to new hardware/software platforms. They can also see
> and verify that the code is not filled with bugs/backdoors.
>

Open source gives more to the customer, that is without question.  But it is
not necessarily in the supplier's interests to give them more.  In a great
many such cases, there is no real advantage to the customer to have the
source code.  They want us to write the stuff for them - that's what they
pay us for.  Depending on the exact contract, they may also pay for the
source code - not so that they can work with it themselves, but as a
protection in case of problems (such as our company going bankrupt, or
otherwise being unable to continue work on the project).  They know the
software has no (intentional) backdoors, and is as bug-free as we can make
it - again, that's what we're paid for.  If they did not trust us to do the
job, the customer would go elsewhere (that's part of the benifits of a
competitive world - compare it to closed source software with monopoly
power).

Even though a licence agreement might be as good as closed-source at
stopping abuse of the source code (these sorts of customers are responsible
people - they are not going to knowingly break agreements), there are two
problems with that.  Licences that are open-source, yet restrictive about
use, are in a no man's land, and would lead to all sorts of complications.
The biggest problem, though, is how to deal with a customer who has fiddled
with the code.  Imagine the joys of supporting code when the user has
"customised" the software, and now it doesn't work.  For specialised
software, it is far better that we do the modifications - we get paid for
it, and the customer gets the guarentee that it will work.  If they could do
as good a job at writing and modifying the software themselves, they
wouldn't have come to us in the first place.


> > This is not a program for
> > which either myself or my customer will gain any benifits from releasing
it
> > as open source - no one is going to be making improvements to it that
will
> > benifit us.
>
> see above
>
> > However, there are certainly *parts* of the program that could
> > be released seperately.  For example, I may seperate out the graphing
parts
> > of the gui into a nice, modular graph widget.  That could easily be
released
> > as open source (Python licence), for the benifit of others and for our
own
> > benifit - if people like it, they will contribute improvements which I
can
> > then use.  If I make any changes or improvements to the pyserial module
that
> > I am using, then I certainly will pass those changes back to the
community.
> > But by the time I get as far as making distribution copies of the
program,
> > I'll be making two sorts of packages - py2exe packages for easy
installation
> > on Windows machines, and .pyc byte-code files for use on Linux (and for
> > Windows users who already have Python).
> >
> > I fully agree that there are often direct benifits from making your own
> > software open source.  There is also the personal satisfaction factor -
I
> > have not written much that could be of direct benifit to others (my job
is
> > embedded systems development - you need our company's hardware to run
our
> > software), but I have enjoyed the feeling I get from the few direct
> > contributions I have made.  But there are many reasons to write closed
> > source code as well.  You do not speak for the Linux-using community
when
> > you say that writing closed source is against your principles.  From a
> > user's viewpoint, open source is definitely an advantage - just like
lower
> > cost, better documentation or more functionality is an advantage.  But
from
> > the writer or sellers viewpoint, it is a mixed blessing which must be
> > considered sensibly - just like the selling price, the level of
> > documentation and the functionality of the software.  The aim of all
> > businesses is to make money - preferably by providing good products and
> > services to their customers.  If that end can be best achieved by
openning
> > their software, great.  If it is best achieved by closing their
software,
> > then that's the way it is.
>
> Thank you for your thoughts.

And for yours.

>The OP was asking about securing code and
> I wanted to impress two things:
>
> 1) you can't secure your code

This is true - you can never be entirely secure.  You must look at each
case - what is it that you want to protect, from whom, and how far are you
willing to go for the protection?  But there are many levels of security.

>
> 2) open source is not a bad thing, it is, in fact, a very good option.

It often is a good option.  My point is merely that, while it often is the
best option, there are many cases where it is *not* the best option.

>
> cheers,
>
> Mathew

mvh.

David





From cliechti at gmx.net  Fri Nov  1 16:15:15 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 23:15:15 +0200
Subject: Sending null byte to serial port in Windows using PySerial?
References: <49f4e27a.0211010930.56788863@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92B9ECB73A675cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

sundae1888 at hotmail.com (sundae) wrote in 
news:49f4e27a.0211010930.56788863 at posting.google.com:
> I'm having troubles sending the null byte (0x00) to the serial port in
> Windows using PySerial on ActivePython 2.2.1 build 222.  Currently I'm
> doing something like this:
> 
> com = serial.Serial("COM1", 9600, timeout=1)

sidenote: i sugest to use numbers i.e. 0 <-> "COM1" that makes it easier if 
you want to run the prog on other platforms or with jython.

> com.write(chr(0))

well i'm reading and writing null characters en masse. so no problem. the 
port is configured for binary data transmition on all platforms.
 
> The device should reply a single byte upon receiving this byte, but I
> never got anything in reply.

well i suspect that something is wrong with your setup. you're sure your 
device is connected to the right port and listening with the same baudrate?
you're reading from the port as you expect, you use a timeout. does the 
read function return before your device answers?

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From engsol at teleport.com  Sun Nov 10 16:59:35 2002
From: engsol at teleport.com (engsol at teleport.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:59:35 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net> <aqilvp$3l1$0@216.39.172.122> <3dcd6aee.7793165@news.earthlink.net> <aqktm8$7ug$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3dceb920.8008485@news.earthlink.net>

On 10 Nov 2002 06:17:44 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:15:31 GMT, engsol at teleport.com wrote:
>
>>On 9 Nov 2002 09:54:01 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:48:35 GMT, engsol at teleport.com wrote:
>>>

>>One example of the legacy requirement is: we have a custom plug-in card which needs to be
>PCI? All done via IO ports or has DMA? Uses interrupts? Time-critical parts?
>
>>loaded with data, then triggered to output the data stream to the system under test. The
>>driver for the card works well, and it'd be nice to not have to rewrite it. The source can
>How do you use "the driver" now? Are you saying "driver" just in the loose sense of any software
>that lets you use some hardware in some way? Or do you really mean "driver" as in developed using
>DDK or equivalent and put in C:\WINNT\system32\drivers\whizzomatcard.sys? Or a privileged app?
>
>>be recompiled as a DLL(?)  module...I think.  Or at the least as a library header
>Why do you think you want to do that? (I'm not suggesting it's a bad idea, I'm just wondering
>what leads you to think you may need to do that). How do you currently operate, and how do
>you hope to operate, at the user interface level?
>
>>file..again..I think.
>>
>It's still hard (for me anyway) to tell what your situation.
>
>Regards,
>Bengt Richter


LOL...this is a bit embarrassing....but here's more detail. Please keep the groans to a
minimum...:)

The test application is written in C. It's a DOS 6.22 application, compiled using Borland
3.0. We've tried newer versions, but they won't compile our source as is. The source is
3/4 million lines, including comments, blank lines, dead code, etc.,and the executable is
about 1 meg. It uses COM1, COM2 and COM3 to "talk" to the test fixture, plus it talks to a
couple of in-house designed and built ISA cards refered to above. One card's output is a
pair of BNC coax connectors which in turn are connected to the test fixture. The other
custom ISA card is attached to the test fixture using a 37 conductor ribbon cable.

The application provides a console-like user interface, command line style. The app has
the facility to run 'scripts', loosely based on a C-like syntax, which is how we write our
test scenarios to automate product software testing. The app also has "drivers" to run the
cards, IO ports, user interface, etc.

As background, the app began 10-12 years ago as a simple thing, then as time went on,
became larger and larger as more capabilty was added. Concurrantly, the products under
test became faster, more complicated, etc. We're now to the point that maintenance is
almost a full time job, we're out of memory (lots of page swapping/overlays), speed is an
issue (we really need an RTOS....events of interest are sub-millisecond now), background
sequencers are at their limits (threads would be nice), on and on. Plus it locks up a lot
these days, which is not good when trying to run a two day test suite over the weekend.

Soooo what is the new tool to look like? Which platform/OS is the "right" one? Which
script language would provide the testers with what they need? Having to compile scripts,
if it were C or C++, doesn't seem like a good idea, and not very newbie friendly. Perl,
while powerful,is a bit obtuse. TCL is a bit limited, although named pipes are handy.
Plus, "bread-boarding" quickie tests from the command line would be awkward at best. How
best to implement a user GUI, and still maintain a command line interface?  We're in the
exploration mode, as it were, to answer some of these questions.

After a lot of reading and web searching, we discovered Python. I'd done some tcl/tk, and
while it was fun, didn't seem to be a suitable script language for inexperienced test
people. But Python does. I've been writing routines in Python, just to get a feel for the
difficulty in implementing some "bread and butter" functions. Guess what...I was amazed at
how easy it was to perform rather complicated encoding schemes in Python...1-2 pages of
code... as compared to doing it in C, which takes 3-6 pages of code. As another "test", I
also wrote a Python routine to parse test log files (big, and lots of them, scattered in
different directories...thanks, glob), and make a formatted CSV file. Then hand it off to
Access for report generation. Piece of cake...gotta love them REs...:) That's why I'm a
convert. Then I wondered about IO port access....not much mention of that in the Python
docs...sockets, yes....direct control of the UARTs, no. But thanks to Mark Hammond and
Andy Robinson's book re Win32 API...that looks do-able with no particular tricks.

Then the thought occurs....will we be forced to write some things in C/C++? ISRs? RTOS
interface? Driving the custom cards? Timers? I don't know, but it's possible there will be
some tasks which will benefit from extending Python. If so, what's involved? How do you do
that...exactly? This is why I posted the request for help/info to this great newsgroup. I
need to figure out the process of extending Python...if it's needed.

To end my rambling...the answer to the driver question above has answered itself, I think.
Why would I want to port a 16-bit DOS module to NT/2K/Linux, as is? Thanks to the
discussion on this helpful newsgroup..I don't think I do. But I still need to understand
the process of adding Python modules, when to use DLLs if it makes sense, how to expose
them to Python, how to use them, etc. I need the "process"...I can figure out the code, I
hope...:)

(Now, if I can just find a good COM book per Alex's suggestions.....)

Regards,
Norm


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Nov 20 05:33:15 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:33:15 +0000
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net> <idf5gXAQ3p29EwJo@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <n0o547l3.fsf@python.net> <++UOYJA+sq29EwYj@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <roPrtXAT+s29Ew7m@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <isys36bg.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <GyRALUArT229Ew$C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <isys36bg.fsf at python.net>, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net>
writes
>Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
>> >extension. I'll have to see if I can get my rather poor mingw to do
>> >that. Haven't had much success with the .dll either. The cygwin build
>> >was a nightmare as I recall with libtool etc etc :(
>> Thomas can't you use distutils with cygwin? Looked in cygwincompiler and
>> it says
>>  .....  It also contains
>> the Mingw32CCompiler class which handles the mingw32 port of GCC (same
>> as cygwin in no-cygwin mode).
>
>Robin, don't bother any more. I'll convert the libffi assembler code
>into MSVC syntax by hand.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Thomas
good luck, I think this may have already been done by people in the java
world.
-- 
Robin Becker


From soufle at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 11 14:04:26 2002
From: soufle at yahoo.com (noyb)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:04:26 -0500
Subject: Follow-up to:  Complex numbers, abs resluts in ...
Message-ID: <111120021404268196%soufle@yahoo.com>

I had previously posted the following:


**************************
I am trying to find out how to get the phase or angle of a complex
number in Python 2.2.  Yes, I have Numpy installed.

I have found how to get the magnitude of a complex number, use "abs".

I have also found how to get the real and imaginary parts but am
stumped by the angle.

I am using something like:

my_complex_variable = (a +bj)

and I can do

abs(my_complex_variable) 

to get the magnitude.

I realize the angle is atan(b,a) but I need to use my_complex_variable
as input and not a,b.

Hope someone knows of a comand I am missing.

David
****************************


and Alex kindly replied:


****************************
import math
def phase(mcv):
    return math.atan2(mcv.imag, mcv.real)

I don't think there's any Python built-in that does this.

Alex
****************************


I should have explained that "mcv" is a rank 1 array and not a scalar. 
atan2 does not seem to accept anything other than a scalar.   Is a
"for"
loop in my future?

David
(python neophyte)


From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Nov 21 18:02:19 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 15:02:19 -0800
Subject: [wxPython] I'd like to catch mouse click events within a text
	control
In-Reply-To: <3ddd24d9@news.swissonline.ch>
References: <3ddd24d9@news.swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <1037919738.26202.1370.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 10:24, F. GEIGER wrote:
> I'd like to catch mouse click events within a text control and then read the
> mouse pointer position. Alas, the only events I found in the dox are,
> EVT_TEXT, EVT_TEXT_ENTER, EVT_TEXT_URL, EVT_TEXT_MAXLEN.

Those events are specific to the wxTextCtrl, but you can also use the
events that are common to *all* controls:

from wxPython.wx import *

class ClickableText(wxTextCtrl):
    def __init__(self, parent, id):
        wxTextCtrl.__init__(self, parent, id)
        EVT_LEFT_DOWN(self, self.OnClick)
        
    def OnClick(self, event):
        print event.GetX(), event.GetY()
        raise SystemExit

app = wxPySimpleApp()

frame = wxDialog(None, -1, "Test")
text = ClickableText(frame, -1)
frame.ShowModal()

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From bdeck at lycos.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 15:06:38 2002
From: bdeck at lycos.co.uk (deckerben)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 12:06:38 -0800
Subject: telnet.py without fork()
Message-ID: <2761b08f.0211191206.56107d9b@posting.google.com>

Hello.


I need telnet.py to run in a single-tasking environment (i.e. without
posix.fork())for PythonD as a demo of the socketmodule. It seems that
socketmodule runs exactly as it should, but the terminal output is
sometimes a little confusing ... (i.e. CR needs to be pressed more
than normal)

As I still have limited experience with python itself (other than
porting it) and even less with socketmodule, I was hoping for a couple
pointers on how this could run better.

This is a non-forking telnet client for PythonD based on the
socket/telnet.py sample that accompanies the 2.2.1 source
distribution.

 
begin code:
##########################################################################
#! /usr/bin/env python

# Minimal interface to the Internet telnet protocol.
#
# It refuses all telnet options and does not recognize any of the
other
# telnet commands, but can still be used to connect in line-by-line
mode.
# It's also useful to play with a number of other services,
# like time, finger, smtp and even ftp.
#
# Usage: telnet host [port]
#
# The port may be a service name or a decimal port number;
# it defaults to 'telnet'.


import sys, nt, time
from socket import *

BUFSIZE = 1024

# Telnet protocol characters

IAC  = chr(255) # Interpret as command
DONT = chr(254)
DO   = chr(253)
WONT = chr(252)
WILL = chr(251)

def main():
	host = sys.argv[1]
	sock_bit = chr(66)
	try:
		hostaddr = gethostbyname(host)
	except error:
		sys.stderr.write(sys.argv[1] + ': bad host name\n')
		sys.exit(2)
	#
	if len(sys.argv) > 2:
		servname = sys.argv[2]
	else:
		servname = 'telnet'
	#
	if '0' <= servname[:1] <= '9':
		port = eval(servname)
	else:
		try:
			port = getservbyname(servname, 'tcp')
		except error:
			sys.stderr.write(servname + ': bad tcp service name\n')
			sys.exit(2)
	#
	s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
	#
	try:
		s.connect((host, port))
	except error, msg:
		sys.stderr.write('connect failed: ' + `msg` + '\n')
		sys.exit(1)

	# parent -- read socket, write stdout
	while 1:
		def readsock(sock_bit):
			iac = 0         # Interpret next char as command
			opt = ''        # Interpret next char as option
			data = sock_bit + s.recv(BUFSIZE)
			# print ord(sock_bit) # for displaying test char
			cleandata = ''
			for c in data:
				if opt:
					print ord(c)
					s.send(opt + c)
					opt = ''
				elif iac:
					iac = 0
					if c == IAC:
						cleandata = cleandata + c
					elif c in (DO, DONT):
						if c == DO: print '(DO)',
						else: print '(DONT)',
						opt = IAC + WONT
					elif c in (WILL, WONT):
						if c == WILL: print '(WILL)',
						else: print '(WONT)',
						opt = IAC + DONT
					else:
						print '(command)', ord(c)
				elif c == IAC:
					iac = 1
					print '(IAC)',
				else:
					cleandata = cleandata + c
			sys.stdout.write(cleandata)
			sys.stdout.flush()

		def sendsock():
			line = sys.stdin.readline()
			s.send(line)

		sock_bit = s.recv(2)
		if sock_bit != '': readsock(sock_bit)
		sendsock()
		readsock('\n')
		
try:
	main()
except KeyboardInterrupt:
	pass

##############################################################################

As you can see, my biggest problem is finding a routine to smoothly
merge user input with output that is returned from the server. Does
anyone happen to know if there is a definite telnet character(s) that
signal the client terminal that user input is now required?

Is there perhaps a socketmodule function that would serve this
purpose?


Thanks
ben


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Nov 12 16:18:01 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:18:01 -0600
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com>
Message-ID: <m2n0oeo5bq.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Alexander" == Alexander Sendzimir <lists at battleface.com> writes:

  Alexander> To do this in Python and be able to get at the match if a
  Alexander> regex succeeds means I have to break up the if's because

That's what I usually end up doing

for line in myfile:
  m = r1.match(line)
  if m:
    do_something()
    break

  m = r2.match(line)
  if m:
    do_something_else()
    break
  

John Hunter




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 11 14:46:37 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 19:46:37 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqlos7$66p$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <qpwz9.16127$oC3.1394670@news010.worldonline.dk> <3dce96ad$0$12451$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> <3DCEB61A.EF3D8E05@alcyone.com> <3DCEBA43.941F62A2@alcyone.com> <3dcf6a25$0$35901$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <jwbaxter-D16FFF.08350811112002@corp-radius.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <aqp1et$iqd$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:35:09 -0800, John Baxter <jwbaxter at spamcop.net> wrote:

>In article <3dcf6a25$0$35901$edfadb0f at dread13.news.tele.dk>,
> "Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> wrote:
>
>> A fascinating read - like
>> when they invented garbage collection because they didn't have enough
>> spare bits for reference counting in the IBM 704 machine word ;)
>> 
>> on-a-64-bit-machine-would-McCarthy-have-invented-Python-instead?-ly y'rs,
>
>We might have found out, had IBM ever gotten "Stretch" to work.
>
I thought there was a "Stretch" doing production work at a Navy lab in the 60's.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bondpaper at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  6 15:04:59 2002
From: bondpaper at earthlink.net (Tom)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:04:59 GMT
Subject: Long overflow problem
Message-ID: <bondpaper-55CDDD.13105906112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net>

Hello,

I have a function that I'm using, but I need to pass it some values that 
could range between int and longint values. It looks something like this:

def myFunc (i, j):
   do cool stuff...


If I call the function as such: myFunc(2382373743L, 2382772391L), I get 
the following error:

OverflowError: Long int too long to convert to int. 

I can't seem to get myFunc to understand that i and j are long integers. 
How would I go about doing this?

Thanks.

Tom


From owen at nospam.invalid  Wed Nov 13 19:11:32 2002
From: owen at nospam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:11:32 -0800
Subject: geometry problem with Tkinter
Message-ID: <aquppv$28g2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

I've run into a problem displaying a fairly simple geometry;
it displays, but goes into an infinite loop trying to grid everything
(on my display the scroll bar shimmies back and forth a bit and the CPU 
usage is high). Dragging the window to a new size stops it.

Here's a very simplified bit of code that demonstrates the problem (more 
at the end):

from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()

mainFrame = Frame(master = root)

logFrame = Frame(master = mainFrame)

logText = Text(master=logFrame)
logText.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky="nsew")

logScroll = Scrollbar (master = logFrame, orient = "vertical")
logScroll.grid(row=0, column=1, sticky="ns")

logFrame.columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
logFrame.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky="nsew")

mainFrame.columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
mainFrame.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky="nsew")

root.mainloop()

Any idea what, if anything, I am doing wrong, and how best to fix it?

If necessary, I can put everything in one frame, but it ruins a logical 
architecture.

-- Russell

Details:

This is extracted from code that:
- Defines a log widget class that inherits from Frame that contains a 
text widget, scroll bar and some other stuff
- Defines a command/reply widget that also inherits from Frame that 
contains a log widget and a command input field.
Yes I could combine them, but the log widget is useful on its own and 
I'd rather subclass it.

 I've ripped out most or all nonessentials, including:
- rowconfigure commands that are needed for the correct window resize 
behavior
- code to connect the text widget and the scrollbar:

You can leave out the logText (cutting two more lines of code), but that 
makes the window hard to see and the infinite loop so tight that it can 
be hard to abort).


From cbrown at metservice.com  Thu Nov 28 21:49:40 2002
From: cbrown at metservice.com (Colin Brown)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:49:40 +1300
Subject: Q: serial port transmit pending count
References: <3de40f51$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net> <3de415a7$0$22175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3de6d5c5$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:3de415a7$0$22175$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
...
> TIOCOUTQ returns the number of buffered tx chars.  For some
> drivers (e.g. 16x50 UARTS) it doesn't appear to include
> characters in the hardware FIFO.  For some others, I know it
> does.
>
>  import termios,fcntl,struct
>
>  def txCount(fd):
>     s = fcntl.ioctl(fd,termios.TIOCOUTQ,TIOCM_zero_str)
>     return struct.unpack('I',s)[0]

I tried to implement but was unable to figure out what TIOCM_zero_str should
be
from the different options available in ioctl or termios.

>From my pySerial instance (ser) the file descriptor ser.fd (as used in
serialposix.write) in
the above function without the 3rd (optional) argument gave me an
IOError: [Errno 14] Bad address.
Printing ser.fd returned the number 3.

Further assistance would be appreciated.

Colin Brown





From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Nov 17 11:05:57 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:05:57 -0600
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
In-Reply-To: <3DD7B7E8.2020402@attglobal.net> (Pierre Rouleau's message of
 "Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:38:16 -0500")
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net>
	<mailman.1037506706.23922.python-list@python.org>
	<3DD7B7E8.2020402@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <m2smy0tc4a.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Pierre" == Pierre Rouleau <pieroul at attglobal.net> writes:

    Pierre> Is there a more efficient way to merge heterogenous lists
    Pierre> than the brute force approach used by uniq() above?

Your question really boils down to getting unique items from a list,
stably.  You can always just concatenate your two lists and then
unique them, so the merge question is secondary.

Take a look at Tim Peter's recipe at
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52560.

His approach is to try alternate methods in order of decreasing
efficiency, moving to the next if the previous fails.  I think his
sort based approach for non-hashable elements will offer improved
performance over your brute force approach.

However, the builtin sort is not stable, so I don't think it will meet
your criterion of deterministic output.  But there is a fair amount of
discussion on that page about the best way to get uniqueness in the
presence of possibly unhashable elements, and various approaches for
dealing with stability -- see Alex's comments after the recipe.

Search google groups for 

  dsu group:*python*

DSU (Decorate Sort Undecorate) is a common idiom for handling sorts
when you are worried about stability.  Also, there is a nice,
informative chapter in The Python Cookbook devoted to the subject,
which basically focuses on the DSU approach.

JDH



From fclift at verio.net  Fri Nov  8 17:40:25 2002
From: fclift at verio.net (Fred Clift)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:40:25 -0700 (MST)
Subject: complicated class question
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D03C69@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <20021108153329.A58763-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net>

>
> OK, something like:
>
> ## C.py
>
> import A
> import B
>
> class new_a:
>  ....
>
> # Save the original 'a' in '_a',
> # install 'new_a' in it's place.
> A._a = A.a
> A.a = new_a
>
> b = B.b()
>
> ## b should use new_a now.
>
> Did this work?
>
> -gustavo
>


This almost works, and with a small change, it works just like I want --
thanks for the idea and the help!.


rather than

class new_a:

I do

class new_a(A.a):


This way, I can then in my new_a definition, override just one one thing I
want, and I still have the rest of methods/attributes of the class
available.

Thanks a lot!

--
Fred Clift - fclift at verio.net -- Remember: If brute
force doesn't work, you're just not using enough.




From jason at omeninternet.com.au  Tue Nov 26 15:04:31 2002
From: jason at omeninternet.com.au (Jason Friedland)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:04:31 +1100
Subject: Reading MS Excel Files ?
References: <3de2e939$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <3DE3D3CF.8090408@omeninternet.com.au>

Peter Skipworth wrote:

> Quite a few of the scripts I develop need to be able to parse a Microsoft
> Excel spreadsheet - with Perl, this was quite simple, using a module called
> Spreadsheet::ParseExcel. Does anything similar exist for Python ?
> 
> Note that I'm working on a Linux platform and thus need a non-Win32-centric
> solution.

Hi Peter

There's a CSV module available from
http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/

Hopefully that'll help you.

Jason Friedland






From dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de  Sun Nov 10 03:13:25 2002
From: dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de (Joerg Woelke)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:13:25 +0100
Subject: How to execute a command line in a Python program?
References: <mailman.1036886716.15027.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DCE1525.32432E0C@felis.uni-freiburg.de>

Mindy wrote:
> 
> Hey, in my python program, I want to call another
> program or command, say, emacs filename&, how to get
> to this? I found there's execfile() function in
> Python? Do I need to write a shell program which calls
> "exec emacs filename&" and then, in my python progam,
> use execfile to execute this shell program? Is there
> any simple way?

Yes, os.system("emacs %s &" %filename)
 
> Thanks!

HTH, J"o!

-- 
sigfault


From vlindberg at verio.net  Thu Nov 14 23:32:13 2002
From: vlindberg at verio.net (VanL)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:32:13 -0700
Subject: rm -rf in python?
Message-ID: <3DD478CD.2080608@verio.net>

Is there a way (short of executing a shell command) that I can do a rm 
-rf on a directory from python?  It raises an OSError if you try to 
delete a directory that has contents.  I suppose that I could recurse 
down through, deleteing as I went, but it seems that there must be an 
easier way.

Anyone know it?

Thanks,

VanL




From matt at mondoinfo.com  Sun Nov  3 21:18:01 2002
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 02:18:01 GMT
Subject: Tkinter problem
References: <369fc45d.0211031751.7ad1276@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasbm8m.s1.matt@sake.mondoinfo.com>

On 3 Nov 2002 17:51:42 -0800, Benson Ngai <benson123456 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Is there another command that I can use so
> that it just close that 1 sub windows? here is the code!

>   okButton=Button(msgWin,text="OK",command=msgWin.quit,justify=CENTER)
>   #^^^^^^ Problem on this line^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^######

The method destroy does what you want.

Regards,
Matt



From usenet at soegaard.net  Wed Nov 13 15:48:54 2002
From: usenet at soegaard.net (Jens Axel Søgaard)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:48:54 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de> <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <3DD0D765.3030907@web.de> <3DD16CAF.41214BBA@alcyone.com> <aqrvhs$mqf$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3dd1ffd7$0$63936$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <hbidnSqaPvrkAk-gXTWcpw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3dd2bcf0$0$63850$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> "Jens Axel S?gaard" <usenet at soegaard.net> wrote in message
> news:3dd1ffd7$0$63936$edfadb0f at dread15.news.tele.dk...
>
>> Beating
>>
>>   http://www.htdp.org
>
> Thanks.  I'll learn a few things from this. However, apropos to the
> thread topic, I am somewhat flabbergasted that anyone could think that
> Scheme's
>
>    (sort (cons 1297.04 (cons 20000.00 (cons -505.25 empty))))
>    ;; expected value:
>    (cons 20000.00 (cons 1297.04 (cons -505.25 empty)))
>
> (section 12.2) is a sensible list notation to inflict on anyone, let
> alone newcomers,

This is in the beginning of the book. Later you will learn to write
(list 1 2 3) or  '(1 2 3).

There is a *very* good explanation. Read on.

[For the Pythonians that does not know Scheme.
  Note that the Scheme-list called a linked list in som other
  languages. A python list is called a vector in stead.]

But why? HTDP uses DrScheme. In DrScheme there are several teaching
language levels. Ranging from beginner, intermediary, advanced. Then
one is ready to use Pretty Big Scheme.

The language levels enables DrScheme to provide the user with error
messages that the student understands. In most languages a simple
syntax error can provoke an error message using concepts the beginner
does not yet understand. DrScheme has the most beginner-friendly error
messages I have ever seen.

Back to the issue, whether to write (cons 1 (cons 2 empty)) or (list 1 2).
This choice is made to learn the beginner the representation of a list.

What is a list of numbers? A list of numbers is either empty, or constructed
by the first number of the list followed by the rest of the list.

Thus a list-of-numbers is either
     empty
or
     (cons a-number a-list).

Examples of lists:
  empty
  (cons 1 empty)
  (cons 2 (cons 1 empty))
Examples of first and rest:
  (first (cons 2 (cons 1 empty))) = 2
  (rest (cons 2 (cons 1 empty))) = (cons 1 empty))


This is important! If you know this we kan write follow the design recipe
for developing list processing function to make functions that handle list
automatically (i.e. without thinking too much).

Let make a function that counts the number of elements in a list
(don't worry it's already in Scheme - it's just an example)

(define (length a-list)
  (cond
    [(empty? a-list)  0]
    [(cons?   a-list)  (+ 1 (length (rest a-list)))]))

In prose this says,
  if a-list is empty, then the length of the list is 0,
  if the list is cons-tructed then the length is 1 (there is a first
  element) plus the length of the rest of the list.

If in constrast you learned to make lists like
  '(1 2 3) which gets printed as (1 2 3),
then you wouldn't know how to make list processing functions.

When you master how to make the functions, it is ok to learn
the notational short cuts.


In more general terms: in the teaching languages values
are printed in the same notation that are used to construct them.
For example: "Hello world" gets printed as "Hello world". This a good
thing for beginners - they are less likely to get confused by the internal
and the printed representation of the various datatypes.

If you haven't looked at the tour, then take a look at
which shows that bitmaps are a builtin datatype, which can be
put directly in the editor:
    http://www.drscheme.org/tour/202/tour-Z-H-5.html

Another beginner friendly thing is the Stepper, which alows you
to execute your programs in small steps also backwards!
    http://www.drscheme.org/tour/202/tour-Z-H-8.html

Finally there are builtin support for XML for making homepages:
    http://www.drscheme.org/tour/202/tour-Z-H-11.html

Have fun,
--
Jens Axel S?gaard





From jsyn at nthought.com  Mon Nov  4 01:42:11 2002
From: jsyn at nthought.com (jsyn)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 22:42:11 -0800
Subject: Is there a good checksum system for OPENBSD?
In-Reply-To: <v03110708b9ebc25f468a@[192.168.0.2]>; from lists@webcrunchers.com on Sun, Nov 03, 2002 at 10:27:27PM -0800
References: <v03110708b9ebc25f468a@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <20021103224211.H31507@exetazo.nthought.com>

On Sun, Nov 03, 2002 at 10:27:27PM -0800, John D. wrote:
> I'm looking for a Program that compares md5 file checksums in a file against actual files and reports discrepancies.   A commercial program like "Tripwire" does this,  but isn't there an Open Source program that can do this.

Check out aide:

http://www.cs.tut.fi/~rammer/aide.html

Within OpenBSD, this is available at ports/security/aide.


jsyn



From pieroul at attglobal.net  Sun Nov 17 14:51:06 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:51:06 -0500
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net> <mailman.1037506706.23922.python-list@python.org> <3DD7B7E8.2020402@attglobal.net> <slrnatftvs.17r.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3DD7F32A.3070809@attglobal.net>


Wojtek Walczak wrote:

> print mergelist(a,b,c,d,e)
> ---
> 
> ...and it returns that: 
>       ['a', 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, <function nic at 0x814880c>, 'b']
> 
It works but it flattens the members that are lists or sequence.
In that sense it modifies the members, which i don't want.


-- 
Pierre



From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Fri Nov 29 09:19:54 2002
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:19:54 -0500
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
In-Reply-To: <1038571003.6023.20.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1038571003.6023.20.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20021129141954.GA1876@hishome.net>

On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 07:56:44PM +0800, Alfredo P. Ricafort wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm quite new to Python.  So far I find it to be easy to learn and
> simple to program.  However, one thing that I missed, especially someone
> coming from C language, is 'struct'. It seems that when you define a
> data structure in the form of a List, Tuple, or Dict., there is no way
> to give names to each element. 
...
> Now my problem is that when the structure of the record change, your
> index has to change also. So in the example above, when the 'Name'
> element is moved(say as the 3rd element - Customer[i][2]), then you have
> to look all over your code and change accordingly. 
> 
> My question now is, how can I assign names to the elements? Or is there
> a better way of doing this?

Many Python programmers use an empty class for this:

class Struct:
    pass

s = Struct()
s.name = "John Doe"
s.phone = "555-5127"
etc. 

It has no predefined structure - you can add any field you like and use
the same class for different types of data. You can delete attributes 
with a del statement (e.g. 'del s.phone') and test for the presence of 
an attribute using hasattr ('if hasattr(s, "fax"):')

	Oren




From alpot at mylinuxsite.com  Fri Nov 29 10:10:16 2002
From: alpot at mylinuxsite.com (Alfredo P. Ricafort)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 23:10:16 +0800
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
In-Reply-To: <F137JeoYWJQ5IuL3kJl0000bfc7@hotmail.com>
References: <F137JeoYWJQ5IuL3kJl0000bfc7@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1038582615.6023.34.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi Paul,

Thanks.  I think your suggestion comes close to what I am looking for
i.e. an array of objects rather than an array of strings (which is what
I original had in mind).

AL

On Fri, 2002-11-29 at 20:41, Paul Simmonds wrote:
> >I'm quite new to Python.  So far I find it to be easy to learn and
> >simple to program.  However, one thing that I missed, especially someone
> >coming from C language, is 'struct'. It seems that when you define a
> >data structure in the form of a List, Tuple, or Dict., there is no way
> >to give names to each element.
> >
> >For example:
> >
> >In C:
> >    struct Customer {
> >           char * Name;
> >           char * Address;
> >           char * TelNo;
> >    } Customer[];
> >
> >    printf("Customer Name is %s\n",Customer[i].Name);
> >
> >
> >In Python:
> >    Customer=[ [Name,Addres,TelNo], [Name,Address,TelNo],.....]
> >
> >    print "Customer Name is %" Customer[i][0]
> >
> Hmmm. I'm dealing with that sort of thing at the moment, and I find that 
> Python classes come in really useful. Try:
> 
> class Customer(object):
>     """Default Customer Definition"""
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.name=""
>         self.address=""
>         self.telno=""
> 
> This is so much more flexible than the C structure. For example:
> 
> >>>from randomobj import *
> >>>custlist=[Customer(),Customer()]
> 
> Gives you 2 Customer class instances, each with its own set of variables as 
> you defined above(not strictly correct, but good enough for simple 
> explanation):
> 
> >>>custlist.append(Customer())       # Add another customer
> >>>print custlist                    # Actually a list of 'pointers'
> [<randomobj.Customer object at 0x81545ec>, <randomobj.Customer object at 
> 0x811ebcc>, <randomobj.Customer object at 0x8155a04>]
> >>>print custlist[0].__dict__        # Access all attributes
> {'telno': '', 'name': '', 'address': ''}
> >>>custlist[0].name='Paul Simmonds'  # Accessing by name
> >>>custlist[0].telno='123456'
> >>>print custlist[0].__dict__        # Changed attributes
> {'telno': '123456', 'name': 'Paul Simmonds', 'address': ''}
> 
> This form will probably do as much as you want, but you can include more 
> functionality by wrapping the 'object' special functions. However, the 
> Python.org Reference Manual section 3.3 explains it better than I can.
> 
> HTH,
> Paul
> 
> <snip>
> >Thanks.
> >
> >AL
> >
> >--
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. 
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
-- 
Alfredo P. Ricafort <alpot at mylinuxsite.com>
Home



From imbosol at vt.edu  Sun Nov  3 23:50:06 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 23:50:06 -0500
Subject: can't assign value to array element
References: <HoCdnRcDleGnR1igXTWcqg@ctc.net>
Message-ID: <aq4uke$2d5$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Joe Heafner wrote:
> Hi.
> In my attempt to seriously learn Python (2.2.1 running on Mac OS X), I've 
> been trying to code some simple numerical algorithms. Here is my code for 
> one routine:
> 
> a=0.
> b=1.4
> y0=0.
> m=10
> 
> h = (b-a)/m
> t = zeros(m, Float)
> t[0] = a
> y = zeros(m, Float)
> y[0] = b
> 
> for j in range(0,m,1):
>    print j # for debugging purposes
>    t = t[j]
>    y = y[j]
>    k1 = h*fprimexy(t,y)
>    k2 = h*fprimexy(t+h/2., y+0.5*k1)
>    k3 = h*fprimexy(t+h/2., y+0.5*k2)
>    k4 = h*fprimexy(t+h, y+k3)
>    y[j+1] = y+(k1+2.*k2+2.k3+k4)/6.
>    t[j+1] = a+h*(j+1)
> 
> When run, this code give the error "TypeError: object does not support 
> item assignment" for hte next to last line. I presume the last line would 
> give the same error. I'm very new to Python and haven't been able to find 
> documentation about htis specific problem, and I've been working 
> (literally) all day on this. What am I doint wrong? I'd appreciate any 
> help.


A variable name can't be used as both an array and a scalar (i.e. this
isn't Perl).  The line

    y = y[i]

rebinds y to the value of the scalar y[i], and so y is no longer an
array.  When you try to index it later, Python complains because it
now considers y a scalar.

The solution is to rename the scalar y, maybe to yi or something.
Same thing with t.

I have couple other minor suggestions:

1. Since you're interested in numerical methods, you're probably
   interested in speed.  You should put the code inside a function,
   like this:

   def main():
       <your code here>
   main()

   This is the single easiest thing you can do to speed up code.
   Variables defined inside a function are faster than those defined
   at top level.  (Although for some numerical applications, the
   numerical time dominates and it won't make too much of a
   difference.)

2. If you intend to do long simulations (more than a few thousand time
   steps), you might want to use xrange(0,m,1) instead of
   range(0,m,1).  The reason is that range allocates a large block of
   memory (probably about m*4 bytes) and fills it with sequential
   integers (which might involve more allocation), all before the
   first iteration.  xrange returns integers on-the-fly each
   iteration.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From martyn_quick at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Nov 27 16:57:50 2002
From: martyn_quick at yahoo.co.uk (Martyn Quick)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 13:57:50 -0800
Subject: Distutils: correct setup script
Message-ID: <d1134b83.0211271357.3993d658@posting.google.com>

I think I am misunderstanding the correct way to create a setup script
for distutils.  I've written a collection of python modules with the
follow structure:

basedir: contains most of the modules and a script  'myscript.py' 
which is the one I run python on.

basedir/data: a package containing a file  '__init__.py' (as it
should) and then various data files

I tried a setup of the following type:


# setup.py
from distutils.core import setup

setup(name="MQscript",
      packages = 'data',
      py_modules = ['module1', 'module2', ... ])

However, this gave the error that I'm not allowed to list modules and
packages at the same time.

What's the correct form for my setup file?

Cheers,
Martyn


From user at domain.invalid  Wed Nov 20 14:43:18 2002
From: user at domain.invalid (user at domain.invalid)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:43:18 -0800
Subject: Permuting data
Message-ID: <3DDBE5D6.20501@domain.invalid>

Hi,
I have encountered a following problem: I need to permute randomly 200 
lines of data  100 times... Meaning that each iteration, data lines are 
in the random order. What would be the proper way to do it?

Thanks,
Lena.



From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 17:07:20 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:07:20 GMT
Subject: tempfile.mktemp() and symlink attacks
References: <3ygu9.105734$La5.330766@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <arbkkp$51t$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrnauago6.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> [I'm reposting this because nobody followed up to it.  I tried doing
> some research because I know there have been changed for Python 2.3, but
> I wasn't able to find the relevant posts on python-dev.]
> 
> In article <3ygu9.105734$La5.330766 at rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>,
> Kent Hu  <kenthu at kenNOSPAMthu.net> wrote:
>>Is using tempfile.mktemp() vulnerable to symlink attacks?  The reason I ask 
>>is that the documentation for os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam() has warnings 
>>about symlink attacks, but the documentation for tempfile.mktemp() does 
>>not.  Also, running os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam() actually brings a 
>>RuntimeWarning, while I tried comparing the implementations, but couldn't 
>>find the source for os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam() in os.py (I'm using 
>>version 2.2.1).
>>
>>Now, if tempfile.mktemp() is vulnerable, I think the docs should say so.  
>>And if it's not vulnerable, the docs for os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam() 
>>should refer readers to tempfile.mktemp() instead of os.tmpfile(), since 
>>tempfile.mktemp() is more functionally similar.
>>
>>Kent Hu
>>
>>
>>Relevant links:
>>http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-file-dir.html
>>http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-tempfile.html

Strange, I distinctly remember following up to this post some time ago.

*google google google*

Funny, Google doesn't seem to have it.

I'll see if I have a copy of my response lying around anywhere. If not,
I'll try to repost it -- but I'm about to leave on Thanksgiving break
and may be out of touch with the 'Net for a few days; I might not be
able to repost until next Monday.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From danielk at aracnet.com  Thu Nov 14 00:51:12 2002
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:51:12 -0800
Subject: How to comment a block of codes in Python?
References: <mailman.1037249479.4319.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9de6tuosphno6pglr531tq5svu04836nfk@4ax.com>

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:50:39 -0800 (PST), Mindy <csshi99 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Hey, this might be easy but I don't figure out myself.
>How to comment a block of codes(including a bunch of
>lines with indentation)? Now, I just use "#" to
>comment every line and it's so clumsy when I want to
>test part of the codes.

Yes, it's easy :-)

See...
http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/docstrings.html

Dan.


From donnal at donnal.net  Wed Nov  6 10:32:46 2002
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 07:32:46 -0800
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk> <aqajfv$qqr$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <918bc22f.0211060732.47b2198d@posting.google.com>

David Brown:
> There are basically two categories of open source licences, as far as I can
> see - gpl-type licences (you can use our source, but you have to apply the
> same licence to the modified code) and bsd-type licences (you can use our
> source for anything you want, but you have to acknowledge the copyright).  I
> am a great believer in the spirit of a licence rather than the letter of the
> licence, and as far as I can see, the Python licence is in the same spirit
> as the BSD licence.  I don't know how that would stand up in court, however,
> but hopefully it will never have to.

Well, I'm not likely to take anyone to court, and neither is my
University for that matter.

For entities like PSF that distribute a lot of copies of their
software, it probably makes sense to write their own specific
licenses, but for everyone else (like me) it seems to boil down to
choosing GPL or BSD. Who would have guessed that it could be this
simple? (And I am not being sarcastic; this thread has helped me
considerably.) Thanks.

Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Thu Nov 28 23:22:10 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:22:10 -0800
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org> <3o3buus1f8kv1psdps2nsq3ed8ltq5ece8@4ax.com> <7iof8a1hd4.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk> <3DE692D5.7050704@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <i1q6sa.si3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Greg Ewing fed this fish to the penguins on Thursday 28 November 2002 
02:04 pm:

> 
> A statement which starts out looking like one of
> these and part way through changes into the other
> can be confusing.
>
        Ah yes... Like the difference between the ancient FORTRAN

        do 10 i = 1 , 20
and
        do 10 i = 1 . 20

        {I wonder if they've finally made spaces significant <G>}
 

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From e_viola at libero.it  Fri Nov 15 14:29:06 2002
From: e_viola at libero.it (bart)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:29:06 GMT
Subject: BUG URLLIB2
References: <3DD43DA7.5070004@libero.it> <ar39ks$dqv$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3DD54ADD.70205@libero.it>

> That's not a bug in urllib2; google.it is *really* returning 403
> FORBIDDEN.
> It appears that this google behaviour is triggered by the header
> 
> User-agent: Python-urllib/2.0a1
> 
> that urllib2 sends, which, in turn, suggests that Google explicitly bans
> urllib2.
> Complain to them.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> 

Thanks to all them that helped me swiftly!!!

How can I change User-Agent field presents inside "urllib2"?

I find two variables that (I think) define user agent in "urllib2" 
library: "__name__" and "__version__".

I tested to set them following way:

      __name__="Mozzilla"
      __version__="5.0"

but it failed yet!!!

Whatever suggest is accept!!!

                                                    - Ennio Viola -







From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 27 22:52:28 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:52:28 +1300
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it> <3DE49BB7.80D199FB@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <3DE592FC.6020101@something.invalid>

Jan Decaluwe wrote:

> But what makes operator methods so special that they should be treated
> so differently from ordinary methods?


I think it all stems from the unfortunate fact that
a class's dict contains a mixture of instance variables
of the class itself and metadata about instances of
that class.

This wasn't a problem with old-style classes, because
classes and instances were completely different types
of object, so you always knew what you were dealing
with.

But a new-style class object is both a class *and*
an instance at the same time. Applying the old-style
lookup rules to such an object would lead to ambiguity
in the case of things like __add__ and __getattr__ that
can apply to *any* type of object. If you looked up
one of those in a class, you wouldn't know whether
you had found an unbound method of instances of the class,
or a bound method of the class itself.

So something had to give, and what gave was the lookup
rules. By always starting in the class rather than the
instance, the ambiguity is removed.

I probably haven't explained this very well -- it all
tends to get rather brain-exploding, and I may have
got some details wrong. See PEPs 253 and 254 for the
full story (but mind your brain).

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Nov 14 10:18:33 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 10:18:33 -0500
Subject: RELEASED: Pymacs 0.19
Message-ID: <oqbs4snprq.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

Hello, my friends.

It has been a long time since the last Pymacs bug!  Here is a new release.

* One may now correctly iterate overs Emacs Lisp lists from Python using a
  short `for' form.  Just for illustrating Pymacs to newcomers, here is a
  simple, but complete example.  Once Pymacs installed, and after putting
  the following file as `essai.py' somewhere on on the Python search path:

     from Pymacs import lisp

     def essai(list):
         for element in list:
            lisp.message('%s' % element)

  the following commands given within in Emacs:

      M-x pymacs-load RET essai RET RET
      M-: (essai-essai '(a b c d)) RET

  will append five lines "'a", "'b", "'c", "'d" and "nil" to the Emacs
  `*Messages*' buffer.  The last "nil" is merely the return value of the
  Python `essai' function.

* On the Emacs side, the function `(pymacs-call FUNCTION ARGUMENT...)' is
  added for convenience.  It works like `pymacs-apply', except that
  arguments are given separately instead of bundled into a single list.

* The documentation has been slightly revised towards Python 2 times.
  For specifying the Emacs interactive behaviour of Python functions, it
  suggests that we prefer function attributes over a global dictionary,
  unless there is a real portability concern for older Python versions.

--------------------

Pymacs is a powerful tool which, once started from Emacs, allows both-way
communication between Emacs Lisp and Python.  Yet, Pymacs aims Python as
an extension language for Emacs rather than the other way around; this
assymetry is reflected in some design choices.  Within Emacs Lisp code,
one may load and use Python modules.  Python functions may themselves
use Emacs services, and handle Emacs Lisp objects kept in Emacs Lisp space.

`http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard/pymacs/' contains a copy of the
Pymacs documentation in HTML form.  The canonical Pymacs distribution is
available as `http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard/pymacs/Pymacs.tar.gz'.
Report problems and suggestions to `mailto:pinard at iro.umontreal.ca'.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Wed Nov 13 12:05:20 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:05:20 +0100
Subject: Raw Newbie: What's the "<?" tag and how can I learn more about it?
In-Reply-To: <sdd23478.051@ccp2.jhuccp.org>; from KZEMBOWER@jhuccp.org on Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 11:15:51AM -0500
References: <sdd23478.051@ccp2.jhuccp.org>
Message-ID: <20021113180520.B30315@prim.han.de>

KEVIN ZEMBOWER wrote:
> I'm just now beginning my learning about python, and have to modify a system written in python, the ezmlm-browse system, which allows ezmlm mailing lists to be accessed via a web interface.
> 
> I've found templates which look like this:
>     <? if body is None ?>
>       <hr><strong>["%(type)s" not shown]</strong>
>     <? else ?>
>       <hr><table width="640">
>       <tr><td>%(markup_urls(html(body)))s</td></tr>
>       </table>
>     <? end ?>

indeed strange :-)

> Obviously, this is python code embedded in HTML, very similar to php in HTML, with which I am more familiar. However, I can't find any references to the "<?" tag system on the python.org web site. I also can't find any references to it in my Learning Python or Programming Python books. I suspect that this is that I just don't know the proper terms to search for. Where can I learn more about this aspect of python?
> 
> The specific problem I'm working on involves the line '<hr><table width="640">'. I'd like to change the width to "100%", but the percent sign must be interpreted as a special character. It causes strange errors. I've tried escaping it with 'width="100\%"', but this doesn't seem to work, either. Any help on this small problem?

probably you can do %% (the percent sign escapes itself :-)

regards,

    holger



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov  9 01:56:59 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 07:56:59 +0100
Subject: Getting SSL certificate
References: <aeGy9.15988$6b.572415@news2.east.cox.net> <m3smycjztc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <kuisz8bhne.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <j48z04z2wy.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <LG%y9.21231$6b.825832@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <m3fzubmds4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Stuart D. Gathman" <stuart at bmsi.com> writes:

> In my case, there is only one cert that the application will trust - but
> I need to make sure it hasn't been forged.

I think this is done by passing the certfile argument.

> >> and cert_file was for a certificate authority that the server cert
> >> should be checked against. but it is a faint impression :)
> 
> That would make sense, but the docs say that checking the server certificate
> is not implemented.

Did you try? Python passes the cert_file argument to
SSL_CTX_use_certificate_chain_file. It might be a problem that Python
never calls SSL_get_verify_result, though (but then, I understand that
the default verify callback will return preverify_ok, so if the server
certificate could not be verified, the TLS handshake will be
terminated).

> Definitely, because even if the checking for level (1) above were
> automatic (as the arguments seem intended for), the application still
> needs to get at the server certificate in some form to check that they
> are talking to the right entity.  Anybody and their dog can get a signed
> certificate.  

No. Not from the CA in the chain you are passing.

In any case, if you get to the SSL object, invoking .server() and
.issuer() on it will tell you the identity of the server (after the
connection has been established). That, of course, can only complement
the check that the certificate has not been forged; you really need to
pass a certificate chain for validation.

Regards,
Martin


From imbosol at vt.edu  Fri Nov 15 16:00:49 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:00:49 -0500
Subject: wrapping all class methods
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com> <mailman.1037385864.30209.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar3vgn$d0g$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Robin Becker wrote:
> ..... it seems I was asking a question that Python cannot answer as
> traceback.print_exc() will only print a traceback back to the point
> at which it's caught.  The stack frames are there and can be listed
> further, but I don't think that the line number information is
> always good beyond the exception handler.


Since you're using anygui, maybe it would be more helpful to wrap your
callbacks.  The Python GUIs I've used (gtk and tkinter) swallow
exceptions that reach the event loop, which seems typical, but they do
print the traceback to stdout.  Maybe anygui doesn't even print the
traceback, or maybe it't not showing up in your programming
environment.



-- 
CARL BANKS


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Nov 14 01:20:40 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:20:40 +1100
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A744@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: arivu at qmaxtest.com [mailto:arivu at qmaxtest.com]

> Can any one please explain how to write a Inline Function in Python?

No. See below.

> Is Inline Functions available in python?

No.

I assume you're coming from C++. In that case, I suggest you take a good
hard look at why you want to write inline functions/methods anyway. If
you're doing it for performance reasons, your compiler is almost certainly
going to be better at deciding what to inline, and has the option to do so
unless you explicitly tell it not to. If you're doing for any other reason
(such as putting code in header files) I strongly advise against it.

Inline was developed when computers were slower and compilers were more
stupid. These days I see no need to inline whatsoever.

Tim Delaney



From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 26 05:30:39 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:30:39 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <mailman.1038016601.6798.python-list@python.org> <7h3of8dsrkj.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <mailman.1038254632.5585.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3adjwsk32.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> writes:

> |Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> writes:
> |> The term 'strict' has another antonym that is probably more useful:
> |> 'lazy'.
> 
> Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote previously:
> |But I think in technical pointy-eared CS speak, 'lazy' has a technical
> |meaning that differs slightly from what Haskell does.
> |I used to know the difference, but I've forgotten; something like lazy
> |means you evaluate a subexpression *each* time its value is used?
> |Haskell doesn't do that.
> 
> There might well be a difference between "non-strict" and "lazy" that I
> am unaware of.  I know these things only casually, not in a pointy-eared
> CS way.
> 
> But for a pure functional language to evaluate a subexpression each
> time its value is used is just plain foolish.  Since you know--by
> definition once state is removed--that a subexpression will always
> evaluate to the same thing, deciding never to cache that value is
> pointless.  I kinda suspect that whatever "lazy" really means precisely,
> it isn't "burns cycles needlessly" :-).

Yeah, I kinda thought that.

I went and looked it up in the foldoc.  Turns out a function `func' is
"non strict" if 

    func bottom

is something other than bottom.  To quote the foldoc, "lazy
evaluation" is a _reduction strategy_ combinining normal order
evaluation with updating.

So it's a bit absurd to describe a language as non-strict, except to
mean that it is possible to write non strict functions in the
language.  Lazy evaluation is a way of arranging that to be possible.
I don't know if Haskell98 mandates lazy evaluation.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  The PROPER way to handle HTML postings is to cancel the article,
  then hire a hitman to kill the poster, his wife and kids, and fuck
  his dog and smash his computer into little bits. Anything more is
  just extremism.                                 -- Paul Tomblin, asr


From costanza at iai.uni-bonn.de  Tue Nov 26 10:17:27 2002
From: costanza at iai.uni-bonn.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:17:27 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAsV/9ZPps7kaNgsdz13mKIcKAAAAQAAAAHTr9l+aOjk6GUCOrVFLVOwEAAAAA@lynx.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <3DE39087.9030806@iai.uni-bonn.de>

Daniel Silva wrote:
>>Pascal Costanza wrote: 
>>So what I have in mind is not only a way to make use of Common Lisp
>>libraries from Python. I am pretty sure that this is already possible.
> 
> I
> 
>>rather think that implementing Python in Common Lisp has several
>>advantages beyond mere reuse options. Here are some ideas.
>>
> 
> 
> Do you know of anyone working on that right now? (Python in Lisp, not
> Lisp libraries for Python)

No, I am not aware of any such project. (But, of course, there might be 
one.) I would consider doing it if I had more time. ;)


Pascal

-- 
Pascal Costanza               University of Bonn
mailto:costanza at web.de        Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de  R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)




From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Fri Nov 15 03:15:03 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:15:03 +0100
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list@python.org> <EDLA9.27101$eX.71749@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <ar05uv$7ao$1@news.netpower.no> <mailman.1037309063.10598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar2acj$c54$1@news.netpower.no>

"Chad Netzer" <cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037309063.10598.python-list at python.org...
> On Thursday 14 November 2002 04:47, David Brown wrote:
>
> > The question then is when will gcc support such
> > link-time code generation, because until then, inlined functions in
headers
> > will remain an issue.
>
>    I'm guessing there may be patent issues in this particular area, which
> could restrict gcc's ability to implement some of these features.
>

Really?  It's an obvious idea - I thought of it years ago, and I have never
written a compiler.  I couldn't imagine that anyone who has really thought
about it would see it differently.  The implementation, on the other hand,
could be tough (and presumably is tough - or it would have been done long
ago), especially for gcc where the linker is very much a seperate entity
from the compiler.





From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Thu Nov 21 14:50:57 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:50:57 GMT
Subject: My Python Editor "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE" does not refesh
References: <mailman.1037422524.22358.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sudqtuc6nn3krovlm4qbpd32d1inekccfg@4ax.com>

I just noticed that when a module A is imported in a module B is
imported in a module C, when A is changed, both A and B need to be
refreshed.
Again, this is because PythonWin does everything as a single
continuous Python session

Manuel


From agcolston at buckman.com  Mon Nov 25 17:27:25 2002
From: agcolston at buckman.com (Tony Colston)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 14:27:25 -0800
Subject: DCOracle2 performance tuning
References: <%uQD9.122449$1O2.8846@sccrnsc04> <3DE06FE1.3010602@epost.de> <3DE14CCC.2010700@computer.org>
Message-ID: <c017c9ec.0211251427.56caa70f@posting.google.com>

I have noticed also that Python is quite a bit slower if you leave the
arraysize parameter alone when using cx_Oracle. If you change the
arraysize on the cursor you can get much better performance.

The amount of data that is being pulled across the network makes a
HUGE difference of course also.

For a large sized table in rows (250,000) and in columns 56 the time
to pull * from the table in my case is about 250 seconds. If you
change the arraysize to 50 then you will pull the data in about half
the time (123 seconds).

Changing the arraysize to greater than 50 in my case brought only
slightly better results which also makes sense.

If you are not pulling back the entire table then time decreases a lot
also, 72 seconds for 3 fields. If change the arraysize then you can
get down to 13 seconds.

The important thing is pick and choose the amount of data that you
really want to pull across the network. Most applications will not
need to pull an entire table of data like this... or you would hope.

The other thing that you need to consider for Oracle at least is the
execution plan for your queries. In both of my cases you always get a
full table scan. Once again this makes sense cause you are pulling ALL
of the data. Also depending on your Oracle version you MUST have
tables with valid statistics or none of your testing will matter at
all... since the Oracle optimizer relies on stats.

Probably the only thing that bothers me out of this is that I wrote a
simliar testing program for Java and got much better performance for
an out of the box experience. The Java test program took only 24
seconds to pull the fields... as compared to the 72 seconds for
Python. When you change the arraysize in Python on the cursor you can
get the same performance and even better. I did not take the time to
optimize the Java version of the test though I imagine I could get
better than 24 seconds there also.

Tony


SQL> select count(*) from order_invoice_detail;

  COUNT(*)
----------
    243727
    
SQL> select count(*) from all_tab_columns
  2  where table_name = 'ORDER_INVOICE_DETAIL' and
  3  owner = 'GRASP';

  COUNT(*)
----------
        56


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Table Access Full on order_invoice_detail
Case 1.
Select * from order_invoice_detail (no arraysize set)
Total time:  252.318585463
Total time:  251.900257156
Total time:  249.472460327

Case 2.
Select * from order_invoice_detail (arraysize = 50)
Total time:  123.798607644
Total time:  122.675535298
Total time:  122.581093128

Case 3.
Select * from order_invoice_detail (arraysize = 100)
Total time:  118.943308158
Total time:  119.487127275
Total time:  117.969179044

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Table access full
Case 10.
select sales_order_no, extended_price, industry_lookup_id from
order_invoice_detail (no arraysize set)
Total time:  72.1730837299
Total time:  72.516651418
Total time:  70.934486925

Case 11.
select sales_order_no, extended_price, industry_lookup_id from
order_invoice_detail (arraysize=50)
Total time:  17.6729447458
Total time:  17.6347633568
Total time:  17.621397971

Case 12.
select sales_order_no, extended_price, industry_lookup_id from
order_invoice_detail (arraysize=100)
Total time:  13.1321153946
Total time:  13.1474268378
Total time:  13.1184346055

Case 13.
select sales_order_no, extended_price, industry_lookup_id from
order_invoice_detail (arraysize=20)
Total time:  23.0417743037
Total time:  23.005110426
Total time:  23.0129290175


From straton at lampsacos.demon.co.uk  Sun Nov  3 12:00:45 2002
From: straton at lampsacos.demon.co.uk (Ken Starks)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:00:45 +0000
Subject: loggin out automatically
References: <1036253358.19897.0@doris.uk.clara.net>
 <3dc3fcf4$0$7369@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <3DC451D3.4060907@cyberspace.org>
Message-ID: <PYgtuoA9YVx9EwVx@lampsacos.demon.co.uk>

In article <3DC451D3.4060907 at cyberspace.org>, trewornan
<treworn at cyberspace.org> writes
>> 
>> Some combination of the above, I'd say.  Some people might suggest that you 
>> were silly to not just /try/ your command in a python interpreter, e.g.--
>> 
>
>Good point but I don't have one running on linux and the installation of 
> linux on another computer is being considered but is dependent on the 
>feasibility of some system to limit access on a timed basis.
>
>Anyway thanks for letting me know why it won't work - I'll look more 
>thoroughly at the linux documentation for possible answers.
>
>M
>
>
You can get python to run a telnet session to the linux machine,
without human intervention. change to super user, change to
any other user, kill processes, whatever.
Better not to send your root password though.


-- 
Ken Starks


From whisper at oz.net  Thu Nov 14 02:28:26 2002
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:28:26 -0800
Subject: How to comment a block of codes in Python?
In-Reply-To: <3DD33D47.B338A887@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEMEKPGAAA.whisper@oz.net>

You could also just put """ around the block?

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Erik Max Francis
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 22:06
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: How to comment a block of codes in Python?
> 
> 
> Mindy wrote:
> 
> > Hey, this might be easy but I don't figure out myself.
> > How to comment a block of codes(including a bunch of
> > lines with indentation)? Now, I just use "#" to
> > comment every line and it's so clumsy when I want to
> > test part of the codes.
> 
> You can put the whole thing in an if 0: ... indentation, or use your
> text editor to block comment a whole region.  This is the kind of thing
> your text editor should be doing for you.
> 
> -- 
>  Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
>  __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
> /  \ I woke up this morning / You were the first thing on my mind
> \__/ India Arie
>     The laws list / http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/laws/
>  Laws, rules, principles, effects, paradoxes, etc. in physics.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From wilk-spamout at flibuste.net  Fri Nov 29 15:59:10 2002
From: wilk-spamout at flibuste.net (William)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 21:59:10 +0100
Subject: catch output of threads
References: <87of88723i.fsf@flibuste.net> <m3lm3ct88i.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87el946qjl.fsf@flibuste.net>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis) writes:

> William <wilk-spamout at flibuste.net> writes:
> 
> > Is it possible to catch the output from print of differents threads ?
> > In a single thread, i can change the value of sys.stdout... but with
> > differents thread i don't know ?
> 
> You can still change the value of sys.stdout, even for multiple
> threads. The print statement internally uses sys.stdout itself.
> 
> If multiple threads interleave print statements, you will get mixed
> output on your replaced sys.stdout, just as you would with the
> standard sys.stdout.

It's why i cannot use this method... I specialy want to catch the output
to don't mix the ouput from all the threads.

Is there a way to redefine print ? (i don't think so but...)

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net


From irmen at NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sat Nov 23 18:04:41 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 00:04:41 +0100
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
In-Reply-To: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net><743utuoi3l31t8e8tt9v3sncosuk2gqi02@4ax.com><1239.92T1047T4844497threeseas@earthlink.net> <mailman.1038067952.28943.python-list@python.org> <4992.92T2618T9825720threeseas@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3de00985$0$11754$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

About the shared list of variable -- value pairs.
What about Linda Tuple Space?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&q=linda+tuple+space+python&btnG=Google+Search



From newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Nov  5 14:09:45 2002
From: newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk (Newt)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:09:45 GMT
Subject: Str and instance concatanation error
References: <R_Cx9.11472$t91.80221380@news-text.cableinet.net> <aq74tb$idp$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <ZHUx9.643$jO2.9019598@news-text.cableinet.net>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:aq74tb$idp$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On Mon, 04 Nov 2002 23:01:05 GMT, "Newt" <newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >I keep getting the following error when trying to write to a file.
<snip>
> >TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'instance' objects
> >
> >This occurs in a class module (called globals.py). This is used to hold
all
> >my global variables, and also has a method (called save_char) to write
these
> >to a file.
> >
> >self.creator is initialised in the __init__ as "". Should I create it as
a
> >stringVar instead, or am I doing something incredibly stupid.
> >
> Well, the error message is a strong clue, but if it doesn't make sense,
> what do you do when you don't know why something like self.creator is
causing
> a problem (besides post a question ;-) ? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm
wondering
> why you wouldn't just plunk in a print statement to see what everything
involved
> is. You say you think it is initialized to as "", which shouldn't cause a
problem.
> So what could it have become so that it does cause a problem? What can you
do to
> find out what it is at the point where it causes the problem?
>
> Well, make the program tell you more. E.g., just before the file.write
above, put
>
>     print 'self.creator =', `self.creator`
>
> or
>     print 'self.creator =', repr(self.creator)
>
> (I recommend the back ticks or repr just to make sure you get something
you can see,
> like '' for a null string etc.)
>
> If you mustn't touch the code, make a safe copy, and verify that you've
restored it
> afterwards, or make a wholesale hacking copy and just mess with it any way
that forces
> it to tell you what you want to know.
>
> Often, it will be less typing and faster than posting a question.
> HTH
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

I didn't plunk in a print statement as I thought the problem was within my
class module, or something strange/supid I'd done.I expected to get the same
sort of error. However, I plunked in a print statement, and strangely got
back a number. I then realised what the problem was. It's got nothing to do
with my class module.

I have a couple of functions to set or get the value of creator. I also have
another module that imports my globals.py
The upshot is that I called my set_creator function with the return from an
Entry command (which is the instance of the Entry command, and not the text
that is typed in (once I added the .get() to the end it all worked fine!).

Newt





From cezary at bigfoot.com  Fri Nov  8 06:54:36 2002
From: cezary at bigfoot.com (Cezary Biernacki)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:54:36 +0100
Subject: PySol Windows binaries, anyone?
References: <mailman.1036695670.29735.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DCBA5FC.3030902@bigfoot.com>

Christian Tismer wrote:
> Dear Python Community,
> 
> my wife is unhappy. She used to play PySol for years.
My wife too :-)

> Recently, I tried to install the latest version,
> but didn't get it to work. Unfortunately, I wiped
> the old installation before. :-(
Simply download source code, create Windows shortcuts and ten minutes 
later your wife will be happy. I did this two months ago.

> As the last resort, I also could write the missing C functions,
> but I really hope somebody has them still around. I'm also
> not sure what else is missing.
On Windows only Python is really required.

Cezary




From steve.cassidy at mq.edu.au  Fri Nov  8 07:10:30 2002
From: steve.cassidy at mq.edu.au (Steve Cassidy)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 23:10:30 +1100
Subject: PEP 301 -- Package Index and Metadata for Distutils
References: <mailman.1036734251.25997.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.08.12.10.19.610348@mq.edu.au>

On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:43:12 +1100, Richard Jones wrote:

> This PEP proposes several extensions to the Distutils packaging system.  These 
> enhancements include a central package index server, tools for submitting 
> package information to the index and extensions to the package metadata to 
> include Trove information.
> 

If you'll pardon an intrusion from over the fence in comp.lang.tcl, it's
very interesting that this proposal and the related ones share a lot in
common with my own TIP 55 proposal for Tcl (
http://www.purl.org/tcl/tip/55.html) and the associated trial
implementation of CANTCL
(http://www.ics.mq.edu.au/~cassidy/cgi-bin/cantcl). 

It strikes me that it might be worthwhile consulting with each other to
share experiences and perhaps even standardise metadata formats between
our two sets of repositories.  With the close relationship between Python
and Tcl (eg. Tkinter, Snack, typcl) there might even be an argument for a
joint repository.

Any and all discussion welcomed, please maintain the cross post so that
both sides of the fence can hear.

Steve


For the benifit of c.l.t I'll retain the PEP text below:

> PEP: 301
> Title: Package Index and Metadata for Distutils
> Version: $Revision: 1.1 $
> Last-Modified: $Date: 2002/11/08 02:59:18 $
> Author: Richard Jones <rjones at ekit-inc.com>
> Status: Draft
> Type: Standards Track
> Content-Type: text/x-rst
> Created: 24-Oct-2002
> Python-Version: 2.3
> Post-History: 
> 
> 
> Abstract
> ========
> 
> This PEP proposes several extensions to the Distutils packaging system
> [1]_.  These enhancements include a central package index server,
> tools for submitting package information to the index and extensions
> to the package metadata to include Trove [2]_ information.
> 
> This PEP does not address issues of package dependency.  It also does
> not address storage and download of packages as described in PEP 243
> [6]_.  Nor is it proposing a local database of packages as described
> in PEP 262 [7]_.
> 
> Existing package repositories such as the Vaults of Parnassus [3]_,
> CPAN [4]_ and PAUSE [5]_ will be investigated as prior art in this
> field.
> 
> 
> Rationale
> =========
> 
> Python programmers have long needed a simple method of discovering
> existing modules and systems available for their use.  It is arguable
> that the existence of these systems for other languages have been a
> significant contribution to their popularity.  The existence of the
> Catalog-SIG, and the many discussions there indicate that there is a
> large population of users who recognise this need.
> 
> The introduction of the Distutils packaging system to Python
> simplified the process of distributing shareable code, and included
> mechanisms for the capture of package metadata, but did little with
> the metadata save ship it with the package.
> 
> An interface to the index should be hosted in the python.org domain,
> giving it an air of legitimacy that existing catalog efforts do not
> have.
> 
> The interface for submitting information to the catalog should be as
> simple as possible - hopefully just a one-line command for most users.
> 
> Issues of package dependency are not addressed due to the complexity
> of such a system.  The original proposal for such a system, PEP 262,
> was dropped as the author realised that platform packaging systems
> (RPM, apt, etc) already handle dependencies, installation and removal.
> 
> Issues of package dissemination (storage on a central server) are
> not addressed because they require assumptions about availability of
> storage and bandwidth that I am not in a position to make.  PEP 243,
> which is still being developed, is tackling these issues and many
> more.  This proposal is considered compatible with, and adjunct to
> the proposal in PEP 243.
> 
> 
> Specification
> =============
> 
> The specification takes three parts, the `web interface`_,  the
> `Distutils register command`_ and the `Distutils Trove
> categorisation`_.
> 
> 
> Web Interface
> -------------
> 
> A web interface is implemented over a simple store.  The interface is
> available through the python.org domain, either directly or as
> packages.python.org.
> 
> The store has columns for all metadata fields.  The (name, version)
> double is used as a uniqueness key.  Additional submissions for an
> existing (name, version) will result in an *update* operation.
> 
> The web interface implements the following commands/interfaces:
> 
> **index**
>   Lists known packages, optionally filtered.  An additional HTML page,
>   **search**, presents a form to the user which is used to customise
>   the index view.  The index will include a browsing interface like
>   that presented in the Trove interface design section 4.3.  The
>   results will be paginated, sorted alphabetically and only showing
>   the most recent version.  The most recent version information will
>   be determined using the Distutils LooseVersion class.
> 
> **display**
>   Displays information about the package.  All fields are displayed as
>   plain text.  The "url" (or "home_page") field is hyperlinked.
> 
> **submit**
>   Accepts a POST form submission of metadata about a package.  The
>   "name" and "version" fields are mandatory, as they uniquely identify
>   an entry in the index.  **Submit** will automatically determine
>   whether to create a new entry or updating an existing entry.  The
>   metadata is checked for correctness where appropriate - specifically
>   the Trove discriminators are compared with the allowed set.  An
>   update will update all information about the package based on the
>   new submitted information.
> 
>   There will also be a submit/edit form that will allow manual submission
>   and updating for those who do not use Distutils.
> 
> **user**
>   Registers a new user with the index.  Requires username, password and
>   email address.  Passwords will be stored in the index database as SHA
>   hashes.  If the username already exists in the database:
> 
>   1. If valid HTTP Basic authentication is provided, the password and
>      email address are updated with the submission information, or
>   2. If no valid authentication is provided, the user is informed that
>      the login is already taken.
> 
>   Registration will be a three-step process, involving:
> 
>   1. User submission of details via the Distutils *register* command,
>   2. Index server sending email to the user's email address with a URL
>      to visit to confirm registration with a random one-time key, and
>   3. User visits URL with the key and confirms registration.
> 
>   Several user Roles will exist:
> 
>   Admin
>     Can assign Owner Role - they decide who may submit for a given
>     package name.
> 
>   Owner
>     Owns a package name, may assign Maintainer Role for that name.  The
>     first user to register information about a package is deemed owner
>     of the package name.  The Admin user may change this if necessary.
> 
>   Maintainer
>     Can submit and update info for a particular package name
> 
>   Manual (through-the-web) user registration is also available through
>   an HTML form.
> 
> **roles**
>   An interface for changing user Role assignments.
> 
> **password_reset**
>   Using a supplied email address as the key, this resets a user's
>   password and sends an email with the new password to the user.
> 
> The **submit** command will require HTTP Basic authentication,
> preferably over an HTTPS connection.
> 
> 
> Distutils *register* Command
> ----------------------------
> 
> An additional Distutils command, ``register``, is implemented which
> posts the package metadata to the central index.  The *register*
> command automatically handles user registration; the user is presented
> with three options:
> 
> 1. login and submit package information
> 2. register as a new packager
> 3. send password reminder email
> 
> On systems where the ``$HOME`` environment variable is set, the user
> will be prompted at exit to save their username/password to a file
> in their ``$HOME`` directory in the file ``.pythonpackagerc``.
> 
> Notification of changes to a package entry will be sent to all users
> who have submitted information about the package.  That is, the original
> submitter and any subsequent updaters.
> 
> The *register* command will include a ``--verify`` option which
> performs a test submission to the index without actually committing
> the data.  The index will perform its submission verification checks
> as usual and report any errors it would have reported during a normal
> submission.  This is useful for verifying correctness of Trove
> discriminators.
> 
> The index server will return custom headers (inspired by PEP 243)
> which the *register* command will use to give feedback to the user:
> 
> **X-Pypi-Status**
>   Either "success" or "fail".
> 
> **X-Pypi-Reason**
>   A description of the reason for failure, or additional information
>   in the case of a success.
> 
> 
> Distutils Trove Categorisation
> ------------------------------
> 
> The Trove concept of *discrimination* will be added to the metadata
> set available to package authors through the new attribute
> "classifiers".  The list of classifiers will be available through the
> web, and added to the package like so::
> 
>     setup(
>         name = "roundup", 
>         version = __version__,
>         classifiers = [
>             'Development Status :: 4 - Beta',
>             'Environment :: Console (Text Based)',
>             'Environment :: Web Environment',
>             'Intended Audience :: End Users/Desktop',
>             'Intended Audience :: Developers',
>             'Intended Audience :: System Administrators',
>             'License :: OSI Approved :: Python License',
>             'Operating System :: MacOS X',
>             'Operating System :: Microsoft :: Windows',
>             'Operating System :: POSIX',
>             'Programming Language :: Python',
>             'Topic :: Communications :: Email',
>             'Topic :: Office/Business',
>             'Topic :: Software Development :: Bug Tracking',
>         ],
>         url = 'http://sourceforge.net/projects/roundup/',
>         ...
>     )
> 
> It was decided that strings would be used for the classification
> entries due to the deep nesting that would be involved in a more
> formal Python structure.
> 
> The original Trove specification that classification namespaces be
> separated by slashes ("/") unfortunately collides with many of the
> names having slashes in them (e.g. "OS/2").  The double-colon solution
> (" :: ") implemented by SourceForge and FreshMeat gets around this
> limitation.
> 
> The list of classification values on the module index has been merged
> from FreshMeat and SourceForge (with their permission).  This list
> will be made available through the web interface as a text list which
> may then be copied to the ``setup.py`` file.  The *register* command's
> ``--verify`` option will also check classifiers values.
> 
> Unfortunately, the addition of the "classifiers" property is not
> backwards-compatible.  A setup.py file using it will not work under
> Python 2.1.3.  It is hoped that a bugfix release of Python 2.2 will
> relax the argument checking of the setup() command to allow new
> keywords, even if they're not actually used.  It is preferable that
> a warning be produced, rather than a show-stopping error.
> 
> 
> Reference Implementation
> ========================
> 
> Reference code is available from the SourceForge project:
> 
>   http://sourceforge.net/projects/pypi/
> 
> A demonstration will be available at:
> 
>   http://www.amk.ca/cgi-bin/pypi.cgi
> 
> ===== ===================================================
> Done  Feature
> ===== ===================================================
>  Y    Submission
>  Y    Index
>  Y    Display
>  Y    Search
>  Y    User registration
>  Y    User verification
>  Y    Password reset
>  Y    Admin interfaces for user/package maintenance
>  N    Trove
> ===== ===================================================
> 
> In the two days of the 22nd and 23rd October 2002, after the first
> announcement to the Catalog-SIG (22nd) and Distutils-SIG (23rd), the
> initial prototype had 45 visitors (not including myself), two of whom
> used the *register* command to submit package information.
> 
> 
> References
> ==========
> 
> .. [1] Distutils packaging system
>    (http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-distutils.html)
> 
> .. [2] Trove
>    (http://tuxedo.org/~esr/trove/)
> 
> .. [3] Vaults of Parnassus
>    (http://www.vex.net/parnassus/)
> 
> .. [4] CPAN
>    (http://www.cpan.org/)
> 
> .. [5] PAUSE
>    (http://pause.cpan.org/)
> 
> .. [6] PEP 243, Module Repository Upload Mechanism
>    (http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0243.html)
> 
> .. [7] PEP 262, A Database of Installed Python Packages
>    (http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0262.html)
> 
> 
> Copyright
> =========
> 
> This document has been placed in the public domain.
> 
> 
> Acknowledgements
> ================
> 
> Anthony Baxter and Martin v. Loewis for encouragement and feedback
> during initial drafting.
> 
> A.M. Kuchling for support including hosting the second prototype.
> 
> The many participants of the Distutils and Catalog SIGs for their
> ideas over the years.
> 
> 
> ..
>    Local Variables:
>    mode: indented-text
>    indent-tabs-mode: nil
>    sentence-end-double-space: t
>    fill-column: 70
>    End:



From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 13 12:49:07 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 17:49:07 GMT
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <aqt734$r6j$0@216.39.172.122> <3dd27ed6$0$4440$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <aqu284$utu$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3dd29093$0$22234$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <aqu284$utu$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
> On 13 Nov 2002 16:33:26 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:
>><rant>
>>
>>One warning: there is a very special place reserved in hell for
>>people who design GUI dialogs with hard-wired widget locations
>>so that the dialogs can't be resized.  One of the reasons I
>>really hate working with MS-Windows because of all the dialog
>>boxes that use 80% of the space in a dialog for useless crap,
>>and then show only four lines in a list-box containing 100+
>>elements.  A decent GUI would let you resize the dialog so you
>>could see more of the stuff in the list-box.  But not
>>MS-Windows....
>>
>></rant>
> 
> Well, the above is just a snapshot of the state of a bunch of
> properties. In Delphi you can easily add code to vary them
> dynamically however you want and have the visual appearance
> automatically keep up in most cases.

That's good to hear.  I do realize that it's possible to design
resizable dialog boxes under MS-Windows. My one effort at
an MS-Windows app does it -- or rather lets wxWindows do it.

> You can also design dialogs that would behave to your specs.
> It's not windows the OS (though there's plenty of other stuff
> to rant about ;-) or Delphi that you're ranting against, it's
> product of particular app coders ;-)

You're right.  Nailing everything down does seem to be SOP for
99% of the Widnows apps I run across.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Look DEEP into the
                                  at               OPENINGS!! Do you see any
                               visi.com            ELVES or EDSELS... or a
                                                   HIGHBALL??...


From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Nov  4 19:00:35 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 16:00:35 -0800
Subject: wxPython style question
In-Reply-To: <cCWdnVnrY5HsSlugXTWcog@comcast.com>
References: <cCWdnVnrY5HsSlugXTWcog@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1036454435.3127.95.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Mon, 2002-11-04 at 12:24, Gary Pajer wrote:
> I'm trying to learn my way around wxPython.  I'm relatively new to python.
> 
> I have (at least) two choices when it comes time to create an object (say a
> wxPanel). The first is what most demos seem to do:  I can make it an
> instance attribute of the Frame (referred to by self):
> 
> def  __init__(self, ...):
>       self.panel1 = wxPanel(self, ...)
>       etc.
> 
> And then reference to the Panel is always available via self.panel1
> 
>   Or I can call the constructor without "self" in which case (if I
> understand the mechanics) the wxWindow object is created, but the wxPython
> object that wraps it dissapears after __init__ finishes.
> 
> def __init__(...):
>        panel1 = wxPanel(self, name="panel1", ... )
>        etc.
> 
> 
> Now,  if I want to change an attribute of the Panel:
> In the former case,  I call
> 
> self.panel1.wxSetWhatever().    (where self is the wxFrame instance)
> 
> 
> In the later, I need to find the wxWindow version of the Panel.  I can do
> this by giving the Panel a name at creation, and then searching for the name
> later, e.g. in a callback routine:
> 
> def  ProcessMenuSelection(self,event):
>        panel = self.FindWindowByName("panel1")
>        panel.wxSetWhatever()
>        etc.
> 
> The later method has some asthetic appeal to me because it does not litter
> the source code with so many  selfs, and it doesn't create attributes that
> might serve no purpose.
> These reasons may not be good reasons.  Is there some reason for preferring
> one approach over the other?

While either approach will work, maintaining unique names for windows
would seem to be a major PITA (I rarely even bother changing the default
name argument when using wxPython).  The approach I usually use is to
save references to windows that I know I'll need later on (or more
likely, add the references as I need them), and not save them for ones I
don't.  This gives you easy access to the objects you need while not
creating "attributes that might serve no purpose."

BTW, if you're *that* concerned about aesthetics, avoid GUI programming
- you'll go mad trying to balance your sensibilities with the
possibility of getting anything useful done ;)

> Am I missing some key point?

GUI programming sucks.  wxPython just makes it suck less.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308




From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 13 17:59:32 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:59:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <7h3smy5zj8k.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqulgk$qj$2@wheel2.two14.net>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:
> come up with it.  Isn't there a pithy quote along the lines of
> "constraints spark creativity"?

Form is liberating?  Though a slightly mangled old saw like "desperation is
the mother of invention" seems more like what you're looking for.  :-)

> The only biggy for me is the lack of Lisp style (with-... ) macros;
> which of these do you prefer:
> 
> def 

You got cutoff here, or the article got truncated on its way.  Want to try
again?  I expect I'd enjoy seeing what you were going to say.


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Tue Nov 19 22:31:28 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 14:31:28 +1100
Subject: csv module 1.0 released
Message-ID: <m3heec6hnz.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

WHAT IS IT:

The CSV module provides a fast CSV parser which can split and join CSV
records which have been produced by Microsoft products such as Access
and Excel.

The module is available here:

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/download/csv-1.0.tar.gz

The module home page is here:

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/

NOTES:

The most important change for this release is that the basic quote
handling has been modified to exactly match the observed behaviour of
Excel.  A comprehensive test suite has been added to test this
observed behaviour.  If the module does not conform to Excel behaviour
we consider this to be a bug.

No problems were reported with the 1.0pre1 release.  This release
makes the 1.0pre1 release official.

CHANGES SINCE 0.5:

* Moved to standard BSD template license.

* Now using distutils to create source distribution.

* Parser's handling of unusual quoting styles was found to be at odds
  with Excel. In particular, Excel only treats the quote character as
  special if it appears as the first character in a field, whereas our
  parser honoured them anywhere. We now produce the same result as Excel -
  quotes within a field appear in the output.

* Introduced Parser.quote_char attribute to replace the hard coded "
  (double quote).  You can now disable quoting by setting quote_char
  to 0 or None.

* Introduced Parser.escape_char attribute which is used to escape
  special characters when quote_char is specified is disabled.

* Introduced Parser.strict attribute which controls whether the parser
  will raise an exception on malformed fields rather than attempting
  to guess the right behaviour.

* Introduced a suite of unit tests.

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov  7 23:30:43 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 04:30:43 GMT
Subject: Any modules to write a wav file
References: <aqf69g$cjk$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <aqfelj$826$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 02:07:45 +0000 (UTC), Sreekant Kodela <skodela at btopenworld.com> wrote:

>Hi folks
>
>Does anyone know of a module which I can use basically to create a wav file
>or other sound format file, using the various numbers generated by a 
>different snippet.
>
>Any soundformat will do. 
>
I've used the read capability, but I haven't tried writing using the wave module.
But it looks straight forward. Check out (I am on windows 2.2.2 here):

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-wave.html

or

 >>> import wave
 >>> help(wave)
 Help on module wave:

 NAME
     wave - Stuff to parse WAVE files.
[... about reading ...]

    Writing WAVE files:
          f = wave.open(file, 'w')
    where file is either the name of a file or an open file pointer.
    The open file pointer must have methods write(), tell(), seek(), and
    close().

    This returns an instance of a class with the following public methods:
          setnchannels(n) -- set the number of channels
          setsampwidth(n) -- set the sample width
          setframerate(n) -- set the frame rate
          setnframes(n)   -- set the number of frames
          setcomptype(type, name)
                          -- set the compression type and the
                             human-readable compression type
          setparams(tuple)
                          -- set all parameters at once
          tell()          -- return current position in output file
          writeframesraw(data)
                          -- write audio frames without pathing up the
                             file header
          writeframes(data)
                          -- write audio frames and patch up the file header
          close()         -- patch up the file header and close the
                             output file
    You should set the parameters before the first writeframesraw or
    writeframes.  The total number of frames does not need to be set,
    but when it is set to the correct value, the header does not have to
    be patched up.
    It is best to first set all parameters, perhaps possibly the
    compression type, and then write audio frames using writeframesraw.
    When all frames have been written, either call writeframes('') or
    close() to patch up the sizes in the header.
    The close() method is called automatically when the class instance
    is destroyed.

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From paustin at eos.ubc.ca  Sat Nov 23 20:00:12 2002
From: paustin at eos.ubc.ca (Philip Austin)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 17:00:12 -0800
Subject: Boost.Python sans Jam
References: <zqiD9.19233$We5.9390@nwrddc04.gnilink.net> <vgrD9.28772$Q27.17345@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <m3r8db93z7.fsf@gull.eos.ubc.ca>

Mark <Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Now, I realized I needed to do one thing before running [not necessarily 
> before compiling my "boostable" extension]:
> 
> export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=~/lib
> 
> To compile, I used the following command line [there may be some unnecessary 
> stuff in here]:
> 
> g++ hello.cpp -I/home/mfenner/include -I/usr/include/python2.2/ 
> -L/usr/lib/python2.2/config -L/home/mfenner/lib -lpython2.2 -lboost_python 
> -o hello.so -shared

1) If you want to remove the dependence on LD_LIBRARY_PATH, you
can pass the runpath to the loader directly like this:

 g++ hello.cpp -I/home/mfenner/include -I/usr/include/python2.2/ 
 -Wl,-rpath,/home/mfenner/lib 
  -L/usr/lib/python2.2/config -L/home/mfenner/lib -lpython2.2 -lboost_python 
 -o hello.so -shared

You can check to make sure this works with

ldd hello.so

which should find all of the relocatable
libraries linked by hello.so

2) If you want to see what bjam is really passing to g++,
invoke bjam during the boost build with the flags -and2

You'll see that boost recommends something 
like this for a typical compile:

g++ -c -Wall -ftemplate-depth-100 -DBOOST_PYTHON_DYNAMIC_LIB -DBOOST_PYTHON_V2 -g -O0 -fno-inline -fPIC -I/nfs/kite/common/python2.2.2/include/python2.2 -idirafter"/nfs/kite/common/boostv2_gcc3.2.1" -o num_util.o 

Regards, Phil


From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Sat Nov 16 10:41:25 2002
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:41:25 +0000
Subject: pykde on mandrake 9
In-Reply-To: <63921a7c.0211160727.23dd93bc@posting.google.com>
References: <63921a7c.0211160727.23dd93bc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200211161541.25113.phil@river-bank.demon.co.uk>

On Saturday 16 November 2002 3:27 pm, hannibal wrote:
> i built  pyqt and pykde on my mandrake 9.0 system.
> When i try to run the examples of  pykde i receive "import
> error:qcommonstyle not found".
> Any idea ?

Read the PyQt FAQ.

Phil



From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 27 00:16:48 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 05:16:48 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org> <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3DE44D27.3030904@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <slrnau8ldc.9t8.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <3DE44D27.3030904 at something.invalid>, Greg Ewing wrote:

> In the case of lambda, however, you can always get
> the same effect using an explicitly declared function,
> bound method, etc. So lambda isn't really  needed
> anyway, regardless of whether list comprehensions
> exist.

Technically, you can do everything with nothing but binary NAND operators,
so things like addition, subraction, etc. aren't really required. That
doesn't make it a good idea to eliminate things just because they can be
replace by more complicated sets of operations.  

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I think I'll do BOTH
                                  at               if I can get RESIDUALS!!
                               visi.com            


From wolfson at uchicago.edu  Mon Nov 11 15:14:55 2002
From: wolfson at uchicago.edu (Ben Wolfson)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:14:55 -0600
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> </f9z9ks/KbEa089yn@the-wire.com> <hRA09ks/K3oP089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.11.20.14.52.897585@uchicago.edu>

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:26:25 +0000, Mel Wilson wrote:

> In article </f9z9ks/KbEa089yn at the-wire.com>,
> mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) wrote:
>>In article <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8 at posting.google.com>,
>>a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya) wrote:
>>> [ ... ]                                     find fibanicci series in
>>>a single line of [Perl] code.
>>>perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
> 
>>   One-liner contests are noxious, but what the heck; the
>>first 10, governed by the xrange ..
> 
> Well, one-liners clearly are not your forte.
> 
>>print reduce (lambda x,y: (x[1],x[0]+x[1], x[2]+[x[1]]), xrange(10), (0,1,[]))[2]
> 
> Pretty lame compared to
> 
> print reduce (lambda x,y: x + [x[-1]+x[-2]], xrange(10), [1, 1] )
> 
> right?

Yabbut how about this one:

import sys;x=lambda a,b:(sys.stdout.write('%s\n'%a),x(a+b,a));x(0,1)

Though that does depend on the maximum recursion depth.  This one doesn't
have that problem, but it pretty wide:

import sys,operator as o;x=lambda a=[1,0]:(sys.stdout.write('%s\n'%a[-1]),o.setslice(a,0,2,[a[1],a[1]+a[0]]));list(iter(x,x))

This one is shorter but uses more memory:

import sys;x=lambda a=[1,0]:(sys.stdout.write('%s\n'%a),a.extend([a[-1],a[-2]+a[-1]]));list(iter(x,x))

-- 
BTR    
BEN WOLFSON HAS RUINED ROCK MUSIC FOR A GENERATION
 -- Crgre Jvyyneq




From blah at blah.org  Fri Nov 29 17:03:12 2002
From: blah at blah.org (nospam sumofan)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:03:12 -0500
Subject: python 2.2.2 install has unworking IDLE in windows 2000
References: <OCEF9.7352$cx4.1204465@news20.bellglobal.com> <u2ZKKiA32y59Ewi8@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5wRF9.67396$e%.1592073@news20.bellglobal.com>

I think I've been able to answer my own question on what the error is, but
yet without a resolution.

During the install, it has an Advanced settings button.  It basically is
asking do you want some files on C:\ or all on the directory of your
install.  (In my case E:\).  So i tried it once to E:\ and when that failed
once to C:\, just to rule it out as an error on my part.  No error windows
or anything but not working either.

loaded pythonwin extentions so I at least get a GUI tool replacement.  Yep,
Win2k sp3.
However, I did find the root cause.

I tried it again but this time from the command dos like window.  It gave
errors on Tk/Tcl not being found, although it's clearly installed on my
system from a previous interpreter.  It's possible that a previous Ruby
install which also has Tk/Tcl version is somehow not being allowed to work
with python or only works with Ruby.  Neither is the python install forcing
itself to install the Tk/Tcl version that works with python.  No Tk/Tcl
icons or links either.

Ruby is loaded in Cygwin with Tk/Tcl, so this looks more to be the issue
here than Windows 2000, and I'll focus my energies there for now.

thanks
sumofan



"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:u2ZKKiA32y59Ewi8 at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
> In article <OCEF9.7352$cx4.1204465 at news20.bellglobal.com>, nospam
> sumofan <blah at blah.org> writes
> >Hey,
> >
> >I've just installed python 2.2.2 and although the command line
interpreter
> >works okay, the IDLE gui doesn't even run.  I've loaded this both ways
under
> >Advanced settings, even checked Task Manager for hung processes.
Nothing.
> >Any ideas?  I can't find anything out there about it ;)
> >
> >TIA
> ...... I just tries starting idle.pyw from the command line and it came
> up fine. I have Python-2.2.2 & Win2k sp3. Which advanced settings are
> you using?
> --
> Robin Becker


---
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From fabien.henon at caramail.com  Sat Nov 23 20:47:21 2002
From: fabien.henon at caramail.com (Fabien HENON)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 02:47:21 +0100
Subject: to PYQT gurus
Message-ID: <3de030bd$0$18232$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

I have written an GUI app using Pyton, Tkinter and PWM.
It is mainly an editor for POV, with color syntax highlighting and many 
nice features. I can be found at :

http://pyvon.sourceforge.net

My question is simple : I am learning to use QT. Do you think it is 
feasible to transfer my from Tkinter to PYQT.
I would like to benefit from QT's quickness.

Thanks

Fabien HENON



From p.thibault at bigfoot.com  Tue Nov 26 01:05:48 2002
From: p.thibault at bigfoot.com (Pierre Thibault)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:05:48 -0500
Subject: IDLE on Mac OS 10.2.2
References: <p.thibault-08D329.00414622112002@news.videotron.net> <MPG.1847ac0d7bf6373d989689@news.nw.centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <p.thibault-BD8FD6.01054826112002@news.videotron.net>

In article <MPG.1847ac0d7bf6373d989689 at news.nw.centurytel.net>,
 Brian Lenihan <brian_ at yahoo.com> wrote:

> It is fairly easy to do what you want using the idle-fork project from 
> SourceForge and Python 2.3a0 from CVS.  Doing it with Python 2.2.2 is 
> possible, but much more difficult.  Look in the pythonmac-sig archive 
> for more info:
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/

Thank you! I'll ask to the mailling list.

Regards.

--------------
Pierre


From threeseas at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 22 22:58:59 2002
From: threeseas at earthlink.net (Timothy Rue)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 03:58:59 GMT
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
Message-ID: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>

Python Dicktatorshit.

?Connect? Looking up host "irc.debian.org"...
?Connect? Attempting connection to host "irc.freenode.net" (196.40.71.132) on port 6667...
?Connect? Connected. Now doing login...
?Log? Logging inactive.
?Server? [irc.debian.org] *** Looking up your hostname...
?Server? [irc.debian.org] *** Checking ident
?Server? [irc.debian.org] *** Found your hostname
?Server? [irc.debian.org] *** Got ident response
?Welcome? Welcome to the freenode IRC Network ThreeSeas
?Host? Your host is epoch.josepablo.net[epoch.josepablo.net/6667], running version dancer- ircd-1.0.31+maint8-fn6
?Server? [irc.debian.org] *** Your host is epoch.josepablo.net[epoch.josepablo.net/6667], running version dancer-ircd-1.0.31+maint8-fn6
?Server? This server was cobbled together Fri Nov  1 03:31:07 UTC 2002
?Server? anthony.freenode.net is vdancer-ircd-1.0.31+maint8-fn6, accepting user modes abBcCdDeEfFgGhHiIkKlLmMnNopPrRsSUvVwWxXyYzZ0123459*@ and channel modes bcdefFghiIklmnoPqstv.
?Lusers? There are 3674 victims and 4066 hiding on 22 servers
?Lusers? 35 flagged staff members
?Lusers? 2 unknown connection(s)
?Lusers? 3179 channels formed
?Lusers? I have 1601 clients and 0 servers
?Lusers? Current local  users: 1601  Max: 2496
?Lusers? Current global users: 7740  Max: 14747
?Server? Highest connection count: 2497 (2496 clients) (73959 since server was (re)started)
?MOTD? - anthony.freenode.net Message of the Day -
?MOTD? - Welcome to the freenode server in San Jose, Costa Rica!
?MOTD? - Thanks to Josepablo P?rez for sponsoring this server.
?MOTD? -
?MOTD? - ANTHONY, PIERS [1934-Present].  Piers Anthony was born in Oxford, England.
?MOTD? - His parents did relief work in Spain during the Spanish Civil War of 1936 to
?MOTD? - 1939.  Piers and his sister joined them when the war ended, and he never
?MOTD? - returned to his native country.  To begin writing, his wife Cam, a computer
?MOTD? - programmer, agreed to work for a year so he could pursue fiction writing full
?MOTD? - time.  It didn't work out, so he became an English teacher.  That didn't
?MOTD? - work out and in 1966 he went back to writing.  His novels include Chthon, the
?MOTD? - very large Xanth series, the Incarnations of Immortality, and more. He is
?MOTD? - also a Linux user.
?MOTD? -
?MOTD? - freenode is a service of Peer-Directed Projects Center, a Texas nonprofit
?MOTD? - corporation, IRS 501(c)(3) application pending. If you find the service
?MOTD? - useful, please consider contributing financially to help us improve
?MOTD? - (http://freenode.net/contrib.shtml).  For network policy, see our web site
?MOTD? - (http://freenode.net/policy.shtml). Thank you for using the network!
?MOTD? -
?MOTD? End of /MOTD command.
--> You have joined channel #python.
?Topic? Topic for channel #python is Don't let the carrots fool you.  The time for action is... umm... sometime next week.
?Topic? Topic for channel #python has been set by ameoba on 20:22:29 22-11-2002
?Names? Users on #python: ThreeSeas Taranis_ dida cliechti_ red_one proteusguy jmones ivan foohbah jafo_ a3ws00 itamar gp sayke inapt tvon MisterP booyeah dash tsiar Kengur fog|zZzZ attila flippo_ kemu ameoba duplexer sulf TWD asqui jonI cliechti dan deus_x _AleX_ seme Crast r0kwork ry Netikular jor Tangent glyph d0rt r0ky_ joona alb Taranis- juri _jacob radix rc scn liiwi xeno42 colyte kittonian dunker z0mbie Thunder- exarkun af h3x deltab grib john zbir frangen
?Names? Users on #python: phed hhg Taaus ketaset paolo msm skylan noa_ jonez Yhg1s sjj plaisthos vegai steinn cmg eikeon teratorn Erwin[work] drewp Matt|| moshez Tmu Acapnotic wnp22 Sublime VladDrac sprocket_ mr_smith TenOfTen Fade psy gresco Setzer Lerris- snibril rik tig benz007 flippo Therion pyn skreech LordVan datazone zl0- tav|hiber _moshez Logan jamiebecker acct
?Names? End of /NAMES list.
?Time? anthony.freenode.net :Friday November 22 2002 -- 20:19:10 -06:00
-ChanServ- [#python] Welcome to #python, puny fleshlings. See the #python FAQ at http://www.purl.org/wiki/python/PythonFaq - see also http://python.org/ for docs and links. And remember: there is no PSU.
?Mode? Current modes for #python: no messaging
?Mode? Channel #python was created on 02:27:37 11-06-2002
ameoba JAVA!
sayke duct tape splint applied, and i can still sorta type slowly
dash ameoba: i'm crushing your head, i'm crushing your head
sayke without using tho two outside fingers on my left hand
ameoba HA!  I laugh at your puny crushings!
--> aum (~aum at l76-152.world-net.co.nz) has joined this channel.
ameoba sayke : ice it and STOP USING IT for a while.  if problems persist, you're fucked.
TWD hrm oh well I don't need it...
sayke haha
sayke i stopped using it
sayke its splinted
ThreeSeas Question: how do you keep read/write collisions on a file from happening in python? is there like a prohibit function of something?
dash ThreeSeas: that's not a python problem
ameoba ThreeSeas : you mean locks?
ThreeSeas locks? Hmmm
sayke holy shit
--> fariseo (~qq at 62.65.165.134) has joined this channel.
sayke i noticed having this splinted gives me a weird bump on the inside of my hand
ameoba your palm?
sayke yea!
sayke you know the pads on the palm
sayke opposite the knuckle
ameoba where the fingers meet the hand?
sayke yea.
sayke in between the two outermost pads on my left hands
sayke is a bump
sayke but
* foohbah wants to see a sayke's hand webcam
sayke i'd like to show you!
dash "talk to the hand"?
ameoba sayke : do you see one on the right hand too?
ameoba sayke : it sounds like my hand...
sayke the bump rises when i strighten out the hurt pinkie finger
foohbah sayke: hold it toward Boston
sayke no, there's not one on the right hand
sayke haha
ameoba sayke : well... get an x-acto knife, dig in and figure out what's wrong.
sayke har
foohbah ah. anatomical debugging. interesting.
ameoba you shouldn't be afraid of exploring your own body.
dash ameoba: warning, contains no user serviceable parts
ThreeSeas Dash: I have several tasks, of which anyone of them might access a file to read or write to it. If they were just reading, no problem. But if one need to modify the file, the others need to wait....
dash ThreeSeas: yes. lock the file
ameoba 3s: what's a 'task' ?
dash yes. what do you mean by "task"?
ameoba are we talking independant processes/threads?  or just different parts of the same process?
ThreeSeas ameoba: task as in a spawned chunk of code running on a multi-tasking system
dash ThreeSeas: "chunk" as in "process"?
ThreeSeas yes
ThreeSeas threads
ameoba OS-level file locking.
dash ThreeSeas: "thread" != "process"
ThreeSeas thanks
dash ThreeSeas: you dont need threads.
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?Nick? Taranis_ is now known as Taranis.
dash ThreeSeas: describe the problem you are trying to solve with threads -- there is almost definitely a better way
dash especially if you're having file contention issues
ThreeSeas I'm not the coder but rather needing to provide a solution direction to a coder in order to solve a problem.
ameoba ThreeSeas : if you're not a coder, you should leave those kinds of arcitechture decisions up to somebody who is one.
jafo_ software suspend under Linux *ROCKS*.
--> Glammie (~amacleod at h009027ad5e42.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined this channel.
ThreeSeas the situation is that several processes might try to access a file at the same time. But if an update is being made, then .......
deltab so make sure that doesn't happen
jafo_ The APM suspend used to work fine on my laptop, but IBM has released some firmware updates that just hosed it.  It's gotten a little better lately, now it's only about a 20% liklihood that it will fail to come back from suspend, unlike the 80% before, but it still sucks.
ameoba BACK UP THE FUCKING TRUCK...  what makes you sure that you need multiple processes?
ThreeSeas ameoba: I didn't say I'm not a coder... I said I'm not the coder... as in the given coding effort
?Quit? Taranis- (~bruce at va-pulaski1a-76.chvlva.adelphia.net) has signed off (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
jafo_ Yeah, shouldn't you be using multiple threads instead of processes?!?
ameoba If you don't know what a file lock is, and you claim to not be a coder, you should'nt even include things at the level in the spec you hand the coder.
deltab either make them take turns, or have only one of them in charge of accessing the file
?Quit? cliechti (~cliechti at dclient80-218-79-66.hispeed.ch) has signed off (Connection timed out).
ameoba what you need to do is define interfaces & what functions do.  what goes on inside is a black box to be left to be designed by somebody who gets it.
jafo_ Oh yeah, if you're not going to be doing the design work, document what you want the results to be and let the designer come up with wether there should be multiple processes or what.
ThreeSeas ameoba: you don';t know what you are talking about
<-- cliechti_ (~cliechti at dclient80-218-79-66.hispeed.ch) has left this channel ("Client Exiting").
jafo_ I love non-designers who can't keep their hands out of the design.
jafo_ NOT!
?Quit? gene9 (gene9 at 194.158.216.247) has signed off ().
--> cliechti (~cliechti at dclient80-218-79-66.hispeed.ch) has joined this channel.
ThreeSeas OK Jerks... I need variables and their values stores in files... files that many fucking prograMS VCAN POSSIBLY ACCESS AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME
ThreeSeas What the fuck don't youy get?
sayke hehe
ThreeSeas pissing all pof the damn place with arrogance
jafo_ I have a love hate relationship with users to try to influence the design.  Only without the love.
sayke ThreeSeas: sounds like you need locks then
sayke you can do it at a filesystem level
jafo_ Or a database...
ThreeSeas yeah... probably... thanks
jafo_ Or you could use atomic updates.
jafo_ Or a semaphore, which unfortunately the base Python doesn't include.
inapt huh?
ameoba jafo_ : are semaphores really appropriate for separate program instances?
jafo_ ameoba: Yeah.
inapt jafo_: threading has all the locking stuff, including semaphores
jafo_ I usually do locking using the "jlock" add-on module, not suprisingly.  It does dot-locking.
jafo_ inapt: Are those actually interfaces to the system semaphores, or are they implemented in the Python interpreter?  I believe it's the latter and multiple processes won't be synchronized by them, only threads in a single program.
inapt jafo_: yep. you're correct. they're for multithreaded programs only.
jafo_ It's a curse...
inapt In the end, they use whatever thread_{nt|os2|pthread|...}.h uses
jafo_ Perhaps, but the API is that you create a semaphore object and then acquire/release that. Which doesn't really work across processes.
inapt nope
inapt i'm not very experienced with the multi-process model, anway (to say the least)
inapt but would it not be possible to use shared memory for locks?
jafo_ Yes.  If you're careful...
jafo_ extremely careful...
jafo_ semaphores will work with SMP and other things where multiple CPUs can be running the same code at the same time.
ameoba semaphores would be safer than shm...
inapt are you talking about these "POSIX semaphores" ?
ameoba POSIX HAS SEMAPHORES!?!??!?
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?AutoAway? arning:AutoAWAY in 1 minute!
?Quit? jmones (~jmones at 65-BAR2-X88.libre.retevision.es) has signed off ("Client Exiting").
jafo_ I think I'm talking about SVID semaphores.
?AutoAway? ote:You are now set AWAY due to inactivity.
?Away? We'll miss you
inapt (I know zero about either)
ameoba semaphores are easy.  using them correctly can be trouble.
inapt but it looks like yet another funny cross-platform issue to me.
jafo_ I don't know what posix semaphores are.
jafo_ SVID semaphores use "semget", which is fairly well implemented.
inapt Posix semaphores are described in my glibc manual. 1) pinfo libc 2) "POSIX semaphores"
inapt I've seen them used in fog's psycopg
ThreeSeas How to cause limitations
?Away? Does this mean you're really back?
ameoba heh...  I'd assume that POSIX semaphores were SVID semaphores that had been included in a new standard.
jafo_ So, I have a "shmbench" I wrote a long time ago which sets up two processes talking to eachother using shared memory.  It can run in two ways -- one way it uses "spin locks", where one process writes a string into the shared memory at offset +1, then writes a 1 at offset 0, then waits for that 0 to change to 1.  The other process does the inverse.
ameoba the other way?  using semaphores & shm?
jafo_ Running in that mode with spinlocks (just checking for the 0 to change to a 1 by checking all the time), I get a rate of 31 laps per second because of scheduler latency.
jafo_ If I run it in semaphore mode, I get 150,000 laps per second.
jafo_ That's on a UP box.  If I run it on an SMP box, spinlocks really kick ass...
inapt I might sound clueless ...
inapt but is that stuff I can see with 'ipcs' related?
inapt 'semaphore arrays'
jafo_ Yes.
inapt ah.
inapt i needed to clear a PostgreSQL related one once.
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dash tee hee
dash good old timmy
inapt hey dash
dash ThreeSeas: Read this: come back when you've come up with an original argument - >http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/11/18/22112/860
ameoba jafo : are spinlocks sufficiently faster on a SMP machine to offset their lameness on a UP machine?
inapt ah. moshez' article.
ThreeSeas dash: looking for an excuse?
inapt I've read it and found it quite good.
dash ThreeSeas: No. just looking to not repeat myself for the umpty-jillionth time
tig what does this statement mean:  "strictly speaking, the operand of the logical operators should be boolean expressions, but Python is not very strict."
dash tig: it means "i am a narrow-minded git and i dislike python"
inapt tig: Python works with nonzero-ness
inapt tig: if something is nonzero, it is considered true
tig dash: eh?
inapt tig: otherwise, it is considered false
dash or has a nonzero length
tig inapt: thx
inapt tig: None, "", [], empty tuples, are all zero.
inapt tig: about everything else is nonzero.
dash ThreeSeas: anyway, if you aren't writing the code, then you aren't qualified to talk about it
inapt tig: that's why None or 5 yields 5.
ThreeSeas Christ! I don't have to read but a little of that to know you have no idea what I'm trying to do.
ameoba tig : he says that the things compared by and/or/not should be true/false values (as in the result of ==, >,<, !=, in, etc) instead of other values.
tig inapt: but an operand as a boolean expression?
inapt tig: sorry?
dash ThreeSeas: ok. so what, exactyl, does that article and following comments not address?
tig inapt: "the operands of the logical operators should be boolean expressions"
ameoba (a != 0) and (b !=0)  instead of a and b
tig oh
tig i see
inapt hmm
dash tig: which is why i said what i did
jafo_ ameoba: Yeah, I don't recall what it was I was seeing performance wise, but IIRC spinlocks on a SMP machine were like 100x faster than semaphores for this benchmark.
inapt in the mathematical sense, a value is probably just defined as the minimal form of an expression :)
jafo_ Obviously, you want to decide wether it makes sense and perhaps auto-detect if they make sense before using them.
inapt i. e. True|False
lament tig: that's very disgusting, by the way, and it's great python doesn't do that
tig lament: i agree, but dont most languages?
lament Don't know about "most languages"
ameoba damn... stil not worth offsetting the 7000x faster semaphores were on the UP machine unless you were certain taht you were going to be on an SMP box
ameoba tig : what mean you by 'most languages'?
lament ameoba: probably C and C++
tig i guess i meant the most popular languages these days
lament tig: yes, that's quite different from 'most'
tig c, c++, perl, java, c#, etc
ameoba c & C++ also work on non-zeroness, but python has slightly different handling of the actual value returned.
inapt the c-ish crap :-P
ameoba I know that Excell doesn't have such an idea of truth
jafo_ ameoba: Hence my saying that you probably want to auto-detect.
dash ameoba: well, because python doesn't make a distinction between "values" and "objects"
ameoba with Excel, you need to have an actual true/false value.
exarkun Damned Excel!
dash also with java
exarkun Also a damned creation.
ThreeSeas Dash: what does the internet not address?
ameoba my dad's taking a class in excel, so I find myself doing a lot of ugly nested conditionals in excel
dash ThreeSeas: ok, back up
dash ThreeSeas: you said "you have no idea what i'm trying to do"
dash ThreeSeas: why did you say that?
ThreeSeas 419 comments .......is that alll?
ameoba o/` you are the best listener I've ever met / you're my best friend / best friend with benefits o/`
dash ThreeSeas: answer the question.
exarkun ThreeSeas: So what *are* you trying to do, anyway?
* Glammie used to hate Alanis.
Glammie Now I like to listen to her music.
ThreeSeas I'm trying to insure read/write collision doesn't happen.
inapt USE LOCKS
ThreeSeas And there may be a solution that is not mentioned
--> _Kengur (~kengur at access-038-201.moscow.eur.slb.com) has joined this channel.
dash inapt: or, "only do one thing at a time"
dash ThreeSeas: "may"?
dash ThreeSeas: why do you say that?
inapt or go to #twisted, where they'll explain to you how to do one thing at a time
ThreeSeas inapt: I've been looking in ORiely books for locks and don't find much on it
inapt ThreeSeas: what's your requirements?
ameoba ThreeSeas : man flock
inapt ThreeSeas: then we can suggest a solution.
inapt files & locks => flock, for example
ThreeSeas serial stream... priority given to process with higest unique number in the event of a tie...
dash ThreeSeas: why?
ameoba what'd handle the stream?
ThreeSeas flocks? Ah.....
ameoba fcntl.flock() in python
inapt ThreeSeas: how many readers? how many writers?
dash more importantly, what are they doing?
?Quit? sulf (sulf at dsl-130-182.aei.ca) has signed off ().
ThreeSeas unix only
ThreeSeas number of readers and writers.... unknown
inapt and they all access a single file?
exarkun ThreeSeas: You don't even have an order of magnitude?
exarkun ThreeSeas: 1? 100? 10000?
dash heh. does it matter? there's only "one or more"
ThreeSeas how is stdout schedualed when several programs or process are trying to writ to it at the same time?
dash ThreeSeas: It isn't.
ThreeSeas dash... and there is the solution
dash ThreeSeas: please answer my question
exarkun dash: Sure it matters
dash exarkun: keep in mind who you're talking to
ThreeSeas variable ; tag ; value
exarkun dash: Well, if we were discussing a real situation instead of a hypothetical in someone's fantasy world...
dash exarkun: then it might matter :)
ThreeSeas file of variabls ; tags; values
dash ThreeSeas: why?
inapt ThreeSeas: one file? if yes, then, as dash says, 'why?'
ThreeSeas Because that is the way it is.
inapt ok.
dash ThreeSeas: what does this data signify? why multiple processes writing to it? what are the processes doing with the data?
ThreeSeas they are VIC variables
ThreeSeas where more than one instance of a VIC can be running
inapt ThreeSeas: I'd use a SQL database
dash why more than one instance?
ameoba perhaps having them communicate w/o a file might be better...
ThreeSeas normally a VIC would have it's exclusive set/file for variables... but in some cases there is a sharing in both read and write
dash inapt, ameoba, exarkun: you guys all done?
inapt dash: yes, hearing 'VIC', I'm out
ThreeSeas SQL for what?
?OP? ChanServ gives channel operator status to dash
inapt ThreeSeas: accessing the data.
?Kick? You have been kicked out of channel #python by dash: the doctor is [OUT]
?Error? Python That channel doesn't exist
--> You have joined channel #python.
?Topic? Topic for channel #python is Don't let the carrots fool you.  The time for action is... umm... sometime next week.
?Topic? Topic for channel #python has been set by ameoba on 20:22:29 22-11-2002
?Names? Users on #python: ThreeSeas _Kengur sam22 lament cliechti Glammie fariseo aum Taranis dida red_one proteusguy ivan foohbah jafo_ a3ws00 itamar gp sayke inapt tvon MisterP booyeah dash tsiar Kengur fog|zZzZ attila flippo_ kemu ameoba duplexer TWD asqui jonI dan deus_x _AleX_ seme Crast r0kwork ry Netikular jor Tangent glyph d0rt r0ky_ joona alb juri _jacob radix rc scn liiwi xeno42 colyte kittonian dunker z0mbie Thunder- exarkun af h3x deltab grib john zbir
?Names? Users on #python: frangen phed hhg Taaus ketaset paolo msm skylan noa_ jonez Yhg1s sjj plaisthos vegai steinn cmg eikeon teratorn Erwin[work] drewp Matt|| moshez Tmu Acapnotic wnp22 Sublime VladDrac sprocket_ mr_smith TenOfTen Fade psy gresco Setzer Lerris- snibril rik tig benz007 flippo Therion pyn skreech LordVan datazone zl0- tav|hiber _moshez Logan jamiebecker acct
?Names? End of /NAMES list.
-ChanServ- [#python] Welcome to #python, puny fleshlings. See the #python FAQ at http://www.purl.org/wiki/python/PythonFaq - see also http://python.org/ for docs and links. And remember: there is no PSU.
?Mode? Current modes for #python: no messaging
?Mode? Channel #python was created on 02:27:37 11-06-2002
dash inapt: no
dash inapt: well actually
dash inapt: why not
--> xcabbage (x at ACA7A5D2.ipt.aol.com) has joined this channel.
ThreeSeas what is your problem dash?
xcabbage gres, why did you paste that huge emacs manual into #flood?
exarkun ThreeSeas: You're a waste of time
dash ThreeSeas: you're incoherent, uncommunicative, and as exarkun says, a waste of time
ThreeSeas says which dictatorship?
dash ThreeSeas: you aren't writing this code, you aren't explaining how the decisionsare being made... what do you want from us?
dash ThreeSeas: why do you expect us to tolerate your nonsense?
ThreeSeas you have a problem in understanding the files access?
inapt  /IGNORE -replies *!3seas@* ALL
inapt <-- is that correct IRC syntax?
dash threeseas: _you_ have a problem understanding that we are not here to rubber-stamp your ideas
dash inapt: you can probably drop the '-replies'
<-- xcabbage (x at ACA7A5D2.ipt.aol.com) has left this channel.
inapt  /IGNORE *!3seas@* ALL
inapt sorry.
ThreeSeas I asked a question, python related...
dash threeseas: yes. if you ask a question here, it takes work to get it answered; work on your part, and ours
dash threeseas: if you aren't willing to put forth the effort to explain what you're doing and why, then i dont see why we should feel obligated to either
ThreeSeas I'm a genius... If I can't answer your question I will try and make out that you don't know what you are talking about..... but are there really 120 users here that hail to ...... dash
exarkun Haha.
exarkun dash: just finish it
?Quit? MisterP (~lister at 66.138.124.76) has signed off (Remote closed the connection).
ameoba MUAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAH
ameoba ThreeSeas : isn't it a little suspicious that NOBODY has ever understood your grand ideas?
?Quit? Kengur (~kengur at moscow-pp3.access.sinet.slb.com) has signed off (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
ThreeSeas a few claim that
ameoba ThreeSeas : there's always the possibilty that you're so far above us that we're left in your dust...  but isn't there a possibility, however remote, that YOU ARE OFF YOUR ROCKER?
inapt I'm pretty sure that they'll be much easier to implement in a more flexible language.
inapt He might want to join #perl instead.
ameoba #lisp
dash ameoba: Probably.
inapt fine with me too ;-)
ThreeSeas a file exist which holds a list of --- variable name ; a tag value ; and a variable value
ameoba 3s : consider http://www.paulgraham.com/icad.html
ThreeSeas the file can be read and written to by more than one process/program.
ThreeSeas The concern is over read/write collision.
dash ThreeSeas: Why?
dash ThreeSeas: Why should these processes attempt to share the file?
ameoba asuming that this program is going to be some sort of shell/command interpreter/user interface/etc, if they need to share state, a file isn't going to cut it.
ameoba s/file/flat file/
ThreeSeas why is there such a thing as global?
dash ThreeSeas: Irrelevant. Answer the question.
ThreeSeas only with a file other things are possible
dash ThreeSeas: Wrong.
ThreeSeas why?
dash ThreeSeas: I can think of at least three or four other ways to solve the problem, but you have not told us what the real problem is
ThreeSeas sure I have
dash ThreeSeas: i'm not going to explain each one at length in hopes one of them is the correct one for your problem.
ThreeSeas you just don't want to hear it
dash ThreeSeas: ok, one last chance:
ThreeSeas a file exist which holds a list of --- variable name ; a tag value ; and a variable value
dash ThreeSeas: what are you doing that requires multiple processes to share state?
ThreeSeas the file can be read and written to by more than one process/program.
dash ThreeSeas: wrong answer.
ameoba that's all fine and dandy.   what are the variables for?
ThreeSeas to pass values
dash ThreeSeas: pass from what to what?
inapt Ok, I'll go play UT. The S/N ratio is much better in the UT chats :-P
exarkun dash: why bootheerrr
dash inapt: yes.
ameoba if you have 5 instances, and each one of them is setting and unsetting variables willy-nilly, using a file to share this data is a Bad Idea.
dash exarkun: i'm nearly done
inapt cu
exarkun ok, cool.
?Nick? inapt is now known as inapt|detached.
teratorn ameoba: i cant see how it would ever be a good idea
ameoba inapt : S/N is better, for sufficiently large valuations of penis/gay/fart jokes
foohbah teratorn: conceptual art?
dash foohbah: no :)
ameoba teratorn : I can't say it'd be the best idea, but if the 'variables' are really more of a configuration system than a variable/state thing, it'd be right..
dash ameoba: no it wouldn't
dash ameoba: there's no difference
ameoba dash : everything uses files for config.
dash ameoba: if it's a configuration system, you dont write to it at runtime
exarkun If you need to interoperate with something else that can't be changed and expects configuration to be in a file and also respects file locks, it might be an ok idea
dash exarkun: sure, but remember the context. ;)
exarkun Yes
ameoba of course that's an outside case, and sounds unrelated to the task at hand.
exarkun The context is "My name is ThreeSeas, and I am a retard." so it's not applicable
foohbah Flying pigs might also be a good idea, but I'm not sure it's worth discussing at length.
itamar exarkun: saw my comment on #twisted?
dash foohbah: why not! pigs are cheap, affordable air travel for everyone
ameoba foohbah : flying pigs are scheduled to be included after the DWIMer (which, IIRC, is going to be in 2.7)
dash foohbah: although the people under the porcine airways might complain about the pollution
* foohbah hopes we can find something or someone else to torment soon
dash ThreeSeas: where'd you go?
ThreeSeas several programs are writing to stdout....by redirecting stdout to a file append.... a variable that shows up more than once is set to the last value given.... problem solved
ameoba riiiight
--> aggregate (aggy at ip68-1-95-9.pn.at.cox.net) has joined this channel.
dash ThreeSeas: you didn't answer my question
dash <dash> ThreeSeas: pass from what to what?
ThreeSeas from a to b
exarkun ThreeSeas: You are stupid
exarkun ThreeSeas: You are stupid
exarkun ThreeSeas: You are stupid
exarkun ThreeSeas: And do not forget
exarkun ThreeSeas: You are stupid
dash ThreeSeas: what are 'a' and 'b'?
* ameoba hands around the ceremonial LARTs
dash ThreeSeas: if you aren't going to _try_ to cooperate, then you need to go.
ThreeSeas what do you use variables for? to pass value around
ameoba "I am considering transporting a product between two points.  What type of snow tires would you recomend?"
dash ThreeSeas: No. You do not understand. You cannot answer a question with another question.
ThreeSeas I also gave the answer
dash ThreeSeas: No, you didn't.
dash "from a to b" is not an answer.
ThreeSeas to pass value around
ameoba The socratic method is reserved for the one who understands what is going on.
dash ThreeSeas: "pass" from where to where?
ameoba ...in which case, NONE OF US can use it.
foohbah the troll method is reserved for trolls
ThreeSeas from where it is set to where it is used.
dash foohbah: we had a good troll by here earlier
dash ThreeSeas: Also not an answer.
foohbah msg dash better than threeseas?
ThreeSeas define variable dash.
dash ThreeSeas: No.
ameoba ThreeSeas : you're the one using the term, what do YOU think it means
dash ThreeSeas: Game over, man. If you cant answer questions coherently, it's time to go. Come back when you can explain what's going on in your head.
?Quit? foohbah (~chatzilla at pool-141-154-242-2.bos.east.verizon.net) has signed off ("sheepishly practices typing slashes. Slashes wrists. Goes to bed.").
?OP? ChanServ gives channel operator status to dash
?Kick? You have been kicked out of channel #python by dash: your time is up
?Error? You are banned from channel #python.


---
*3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!*
   *~ ~ ~      Advancing How we Perceive and Use the Tool of Computers!*
Timothy Rue      What's *DONE* in all we do?  *AI PK OI IP OP SF IQ ID KE*
Email @ mailto:timrue at mindspring.com      >INPUT->(Processing)->OUTPUT>v
Web @ http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/  ^<--------<----9----<--------<



From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 23:18:29 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:18:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help me out with bugs in my list ?
In-Reply-To: <E18A08h-0004Uc-00@flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20021108041829.55163.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey, I have two lists like:
binding_list =
["ls","ls","ls","netscape","netscape","lib","lib"]

to_list =
["ls","lib","ls","netscape","ls","lib","lib"]

I want to get non-duplicated pairs of strings from
them like
(binding_list[i],to_list[i]) by eliminating the
duplicated pairs. For the above two lists, I want to
get two new lists:
binding_list = ['ls', 'ls', 'netscape', 'netscape',
'lib']
to_list = ['ls', 'lib', 'netscape', 'ls', 'lib']

My codes are like the following, but I got the result
as:
binding_list = ['ls', 'ls', 'netscape', 'netscape',
'lib','lib']
to_list = ['ls', 'lib', 'netscape', 'ls', 'lib','lib']

With the last two pairs duplicated. I know I was wrong
because at the last loop, index1 = 4, index2 =1, even
though the fifth pair is the same with the fourth
pair, my codes can't detect this. Could anyone help me
to get a correct piece of codes? Thanks so much!

My codes:
----------------
for i in range(1,len(binding_list)):  
    if (i == len(binding_list)): 
	break
index1 = binding_list.index(binding_list[i])
index2 = to_list.index(to_list[i])
if ((index1 >=0)and(index2 >=0)and(index1==index2)):
	del binding_list[i]
	del to_list[i]

print binding_list
print to_list



=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 24 02:36:37 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 00:36:37 -0700
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <arpvi8$f9c$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Thomas Guettler wrote:

> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I just read Guido's "python regret's" slide's from OSCON,
>> 
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=OSCON+%22python+regrets%22
>> and one thing i can't work out is,
>> he is saying we can do map() and filter() with list comprehensions (it's
>> faster too) eg.
> 
> Thank you for this link.

And for those of us who don't use powerpoint, the pdf version is also 
available (prettier than google's html-ized ppt):

http://www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/regrets/PythonRegrets.pdf

Cheers,

f.


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Nov  7 13:35:52 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 19:35:52 +0100
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list@python.org> <slrnasj332.v3h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <j465v93g42.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnasl7n2.d1h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <j4k7jpz0qf.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> writes:

> > I would still recommend to use 0x8000000L instead; it saves you one
> > computation, and is more readable.
> 
> But that *won't work* on later versions of Python! 

How do you know? Later versions of Python have not been released!

> It means I will have a line in my code which I know will suddenly
> stop working at some point in the future and I will have to make a
> new release and everyone will have to upgrade their copies of my
> module just because I put in code which I knew wasn't going to work.

Yes, provided your code is still in use when that happens.

Regards,
Martin


From wasjaja at gmx.de  Sat Nov 16 13:07:40 2002
From: wasjaja at gmx.de (Christian Rapp)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:07:40 +0100
Subject: Get Stdout from external script startet through python
References: <ar5aog$53i$06$1@news.t-online.com> <slrnatd4f4.8d.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <ar61ed$rjo$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Seems to work, thanks!

Greets
C. Rapp

"Wojtek Walczak" <gminick at hacker.pl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:slrnatd4f4.8d.gminick at hannibal.localdomain...
> Dnia Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:40:30 +0100, Christian Rapp napisa?(a):
> > I need to start an external script from inside python. This works just
fine.
> > The called script produces some output on StandardOut, that I need
within
> > the python-script. How do I get this Output into python?
>
> >>> import os
> >>> print os.popen.__doc__
> popen(command [, mode='r' [, bufsize]]) -> pipe
> Open a pipe to/from a command returning a file object.
> >>> a = os.popen("/bin/date")
> >>> print a.read(),
> Sat Nov 16 19:42:59 CET 2002
> >>> a.close()
>
> Is that what you wanted ?
>
> --
> [ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ ]
> [ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) underground.org.pl  ]




From thorsten at goertz.com  Thu Nov  7 16:41:33 2002
From: thorsten at goertz.com (Thorsten Goertz)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 22:41:33 +0100
Subject: Embedded Threading Question
References: <32355ee1.0211071215.1c26afe7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DCADE0D.2E06C5E3@goertz.com>

Tim Dietz wrote:

> When I test the module within the Python interpreter from
> DOS, it's happy as a clam.  But, the problem is that when I
> include the exact same module within the application, the
> app hangs forever and I have to kill the process.

You should give us some more information about your code.
How do you initialize the embedded Python interpreter? Is
your C/C++ code that will be called from Python thread safe?
Is it always from Python to C or sometimes the other way around?

> How can I find out if the DLL that we're using supports
> threads?  If it does, is there anything special I need to
> do to get them working fully in my app?

Are you using the installer from python.org? With 2.2.x I
make heavy use of the embedded interpreter in a
multithreaded application and it works very well in both
directions, from C++ to python and (call-) back.

> I am using the thread module as the threading module won't
> work at all under the application.

Again, you should show us some code...


From usenet at soegaard.net  Mon Nov 11 10:27:01 2002
From: usenet at soegaard.net (Jens Axel Søgaard)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:27:01 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqltkt$14s$1@news.hccnet.nl> <76c4da8e.0211101357.6a804d20@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3dd165fb$0$63910$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

Vlad S. wrote:
> anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote in message

>> Wouldn't it be possible to  write a macro for Lisp so that it uses
>> newlines and indentation instead of parens?
>
> Yes, it's been done before.
> http://www-cgi.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-
> repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/syntax/0.html Nobody really cared about
> the efforts though. Right now, PLT is trying to do something similar
> by including tools to let you embed and design new grammars more
> easily. The 200 versions come with their example Algol-60
> implementation.

;-)

That is not the purpose at all. The purpose is to show how easy it is to
use the PLT (DrScheme) to write parsers/interpreters/compilers. That and
to show off the superb module system.

I guess the choice fell on Algol 60 because it were a significant programming
language that influenced a lot of languages. It's "the mother of all lexically scoped
bloak languages".

--
Jens Axel S?gaard





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Nov 23 22:38:31 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 21:38:31 -0600
Subject: Regular expression question
In-Reply-To: <9a5f3d1c.0211231857.78125e43@posting.google.com>
References: <9a5f3d1c.0211231857.78125e43@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021123213820.A13007@unpythonic.net>

You're doing a number of "unpythonic" things in this code.  It's best to
learn to speak Python like a native, to get beyond building up a "phrasebook"
to translate Perl statements into Python statements.

The biggest "unpythonic" thing is referring to an arbitrary global
variable by its name at runtime.  This is very bad, since it lets a
user refer to any function.  Besides that, you'll probably encapsulate
the Python version in a module (since it's longer than a line or two),
but the Python "globals()" returns the globals of the current module,
not the calling module.

Anyway, here's an attempt at a Pythonic version of the perl code you
posted.  Yes, it's longer than the Perl version.  To use it, you'd write

        def f(s): return s.upper()
        def g(s): return s.title()
        function_map = {'f': f, 'g': g}
        print substitute_template("The lessons are: '%%f%%' and '%%g%%'",
                                  function_map, "python is not perl")
        # Test out error handling
        print substitute_template("At the tone, time time is 10PM: %%z%%",
                                  function_map,    "")

(The third argument corresponds to $variable in your example)

Here's the code to implement the 'substitute_template' function:
        import re

# Since python wouldn't just refer to a global 'variable', a Subfunc
# class records the desired argument and the function map for later use.
# You can call a Subfunc instance just like it was a plain function
        class Subfunc:
            def __init__(self, function_map, arg):
                self.function_map = function_map
                self.arg = arg

            def __call__(self, s):
                fname = s.group(1).lower()
# Error handling should probably be more sophisticated.
# But hell, it's better than terminating the whole program...
                try:
                    f = function_map[s]
                except KeyError:
                    return "*** ERROR: bad substitution %r ***" % fname
                return f(self.arg)

# Compile the regular expression, since we expect to be matching it frequently
        subre = re.compile("%%(.?)%%")

# Here's the function you call.  It creates a Subfunc instance and passes
# it on to re.sub
        def substitute_template(template, function_map, arg):
            return subre.sub(Subfunc(function_map, arg), template)

Enhancing the code to let $variable be an arbitrary parameter list
is fairly easy.  You'll need to learn about *args (and maybe **kw)
parameters, and either the f(*args, *kw) calling convention or the
apply function.

Jeff



From usenet at imperialviolet.org  Thu Nov 28 10:46:17 2002
From: usenet at imperialviolet.org (Adam Langley)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:46:17 +0000
Subject: python path
References: <3de63380$0$86565$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.28.15.46.16.727073@imperialviolet.org>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:18:56 +0100, Jonas Geiregat wrote:

> on linux
> how can add new path's to my sys.path var not with append cause when the 
> programme closes or interpreter it changes again ?
> so save it somewhere ?

set $PYTHONPATH in your shell rc file (e.g. ~/.bashrc)



From martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi  Sat Nov  9 14:21:28 2002
From: martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi (Martti Halminen)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 21:21:28 +0200
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7h31y5uyj81.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <slrnasqf9a.mjr.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <qVcz9.25108$6b.985891@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3DCD6038.7E6EC76B@kolumbus.fi>

Richard Dillingham wrote:

> > The only thing that could make me at all comfortable with using Lisp
> > would be if I had an editor that would color-highlight not keywords or
> > strings, as color-highlighting usually goes, but levels of parenthesis
> > indentation. So that this:
> >
> > (a (b (c (d e))))

> 
> I wonder why you aren't writing
> (a
>     (b
>         (c
>             (d e)
>         )
>     )
> )


A lisp programmer would write it like this:

(a
 (b
  (c
   (d e))))

or the original: (a (b (c (d e)))) if using so short names and no
control structures causing special indentation.


> The issue with 'Python being easier to read than Lisp,' IMHO, is mainly that
> Python FORCES you to use indentation, whereas Lisp does not.
> 
> Since Lisp does not force you to write readable code, you have to force
> yourself to use indentation.

For a beginner it might be forcing, for the professionals it is a major
tool. Not using the canonical indentation style is a sure sign of a
newbie in comp.lang.lisp.

> But I don't see a bunch of C programmers typing
> if (a) { if (b) { if (c) { asdf; } else { zzzz; }} else { foo; }} else
> {bar;}
> like a Lisp coder might type
> (if (a) (if (b) (if (c) (asdf) (zzzz)) (foo)) (bar))

> (if (a)
>     (if (b)
>         (if (c)
>             (asdf)
>             (zzzz)
>         )
>         (foo)
>     )
>     (bar)
> )
> 

(if (a)
    (if (b)
        (if (c)
            (asdf)
	  (zzzz))	  
      (foo))
  (bar))

Would be the normal way to write this.

--


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov  5 16:28:04 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:28:04 -0800
Subject: More about simple question
References: <mailman.1036519806.2584.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DC837E4.D8ED7A3D@alcyone.com>

xinghua shi wrote:

> I still have another question. If I have a file named:
> foo.py. then how can I get an excetable, say foo?
> In C, I could use
> % gcc foo.c -o foo
> 
> So how can I do similar in Python?
> %python foo.py -o foo
> doesn't work of course.

Give it a bangpath that points to Python as the first line:

	#!/usr/bin/env python

or maybe

	#!/usr/local/bin/python

and make it executable.  Then you can run it as ./foo.py.  If you prefer
to run it without the the .py extension, then just rename the file to
foo.  In UNIX and UNIX-like operating systems, executable scripts are
discerned by their bangpath, not by their file extension.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ It is one thing to praise discipline, and another to submit to it.
\__/ Cervantes
    Rules for Buh / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh.html
 The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.


From theller at python.net  Thu Nov 21 05:24:11 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 11:24:11 +0100
Subject: ctypes and delphi dll
References: <aredbs$i4r6a$1@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de> <argvq1$ijund$1@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <wun7usok.fsf@python.net>

Bernd Zimmermann <zimmermann.edv at t-online.de> writes:

> Meanwhile I got it .... providing the procedures
> arguments in inverse sequence lets the bell ring!
> 
> I am happy with ctypes !
> 
> Bernd

Searching for Delphi calling conventions, I found this page:
http://info.borland.com/techpubs/delphi/delphi5/oplg/procfunc.html#8406

It seems your dll uses the pascal calling convention, while ctypes
only supports cdecl and stdcall. Below is a sketch (untested) of subclasses
which should do the trick:


    class PascalFunction(_DynFunction):
        def __call__(self, *args):
            pascal_args = list(args)
            pascal_args.reverse()
            return _DynFunction.__call__(self, *pascal_args)

    class PascalDLL(CDLL):
        def __getattr__(self, name):
            func = PascalFunction(name, self)
            setattr(self, name, func)
            return func

    pascaldll = _DLLS(PascalDLL)

Should ctypes support the pascal calling convention 'natively'?
Maybe later...

Thomas


From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 19 06:56:47 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:56:47 GMT
Subject: changing the Python grammar ?
References: <2259b0e2.0211181221.2eab9db7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3zns5vkrf.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:

> Browsing on the on-line refencence manual you can find the formal
> definition of the Python grammar: http://python.org/doc/current/ref/grammar.txt

Bear in mind that that is a descriptive grammar.  The real one is
Grammar/Grammar in the source distribution.

> But now a question arise to me: can I modify the grammar ??

If yo're prepared to build from source, yes.

> Suppose for instance I want to make able Python to recognize identifiers
> starting with some funny symbol, say "@". All I must do is to modify
> the first line of the grammar as 

Ah, that's the lexer.

> identifier ::= 
>                ["@"] (letter|"_") (letter | digit | "_")*
> 
> In the best of the worlds, I would look for some file in the Python
> source distribution containing the grammar, I would change that line, 
> and recompiling I would have a new Python able to understand identifiers
> starting with "@". Is this possible in practice ?

You're asking two questions here (though you might not realize it):

Hacking the Grammar is certainly possible.  You then usually need to
hack Python/compile.c too.  This can be hard.  Python/compile.c is not
the friendliest code in the world.

However, to what you want to do, you need to hack Parser/tokenizer.c
(I think).  This also isn't the friendliest code in the world, but
it's not too bad.  I've done similar things without too much wailing
and gnashing of teeth.

> Notice that I do NOT want to introduce ugly perlish-like identifiers in
> Python, I simply want to know how much it is possible to customize the
> Python grammar: is this a simple hack or a nightmare ?

Somewhere between those.  As your customizations get more ambitious,
you'll probably find yourself rapidly heading for the "nightmare" end
of that scale.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
 Two decades later, well-known hacker Henry Spencer described the 
 Perl scripting language as a "Swiss-Army chainsaw", intending to 
 convey his evaluation of the language as exceedingly powerful but 
 ugly and noisy and prone to belch noxious fumes.   -- the jargon file


From srumbalski at prodigy.net  Wed Nov 27 01:24:08 2002
From: srumbalski at prodigy.net (Steven Rumbalski)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:24:08 GMT
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
References: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com> <3de3e129$0$4437$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <cyZE9.4757$fv6.3665@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> In article <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908 at newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>, Steven
> Rumbalski wrote:
> 
>> In python I can write:
>> 
>> a, b = i, j
>> 
>> but the following is not legal:
>> 
>> a, b += i, j
>> 
>> Is there a reason that allowing this would be bad?
> 
> If it were allowed, what do you propose it would do?
> 
>> Why does Python forbid this?
> 
> First tell us what you think it would do were it legal.  :)
> 

I was imagining it working like

>>> a += i
>>> b += j

I suppose it could appear that I meant

>>> a, b = (a, b) + (i, J)

The first is intuitive to me because of how the following behaves

>>> a, b = i, j

but I guess it's not intuitive to others.

By the way, I did not ask the above question because I thought that Python 
was wrong, but because I want to understand the language better.


Steven Rumbalski


From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Thu Nov 14 17:01:41 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:01:41 GMT
Subject: Open and reading a file...
References: <clUA9.14453$md7.1204247@news20.bellglobal.com> <slrnat8a11.rng.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <g178tu0ml23tjvu7rlkqr3emp34d8hbgpq@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:43:36 GMT, Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> wrote:
(edit)
>Let us know if you have any more questions that this answer didn't cover.

Now I feel ashamed for being a smartass.  But it was so difficult to
resist.


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 10 17:47:31 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 22:47:31 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqlos7$66p$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <qpwz9.16127$oC3.1394670@news010.worldonline.dk> <3dce96ad$0$12451$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> <l2yz9.16335$oC3.1414749@news010.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <aqmnm3$srr$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:00:51 +0100, "Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at inbound.dk> wrote:

>"Jens Axel S?gaard" <usenet at jasoegaard.dk> wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm curious: what exactly did McCarthy's new syntax look like?  Have
>> > you got any pointers to specs, examples or such on the web?
>>
>> I can't remember a link - but if you want to Google for them,
>> they were calles M-expressions.
>
>Tried that, but every professor teaching Lisp/Scheme seems to mention
>M-expressions in passing before proceeding to S-exprs, drowning any
>useful information.
>
>I wonder if M-expressions changed the concrete syntax but preserved
>the abstract syntax? I mean did it preserve the basic
>everything-is-a-cons-or-atom model just adding some infix syntactic
>sugar on top, or was it fundamentally different?
>

Quoting from James Allen's "Anatomy of Lisp" (C) 1978 McGraw Hill:
(where *italic* and **bold**)

    "In essence, then, there are *two* LISP's: there is the algorithmic
language and there is the programming language. The programming language
is a data structure representation of the algorithmic language. The algorithmic
language is called the **meta-language** or **M-expr LISP**, and for historical
purposes, the programming language is called **S-expr LISP**."

I have encountered no other book that so clearly focuses attention on
the distinction between abstractions and representations. I suspect a major part
of the attraction of Python is that it lets us program with a goodly set of
clean powerful abstractions, and that that is probably the basis for feelings of
a kind of kinship with lisp, whatever the differences in representation syntax.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From skodela at btopenworld.com  Sat Nov  9 04:49:41 2002
From: skodela at btopenworld.com (Sreekant Kodela)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 09:49:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Any modules to write a wav file
References: <aqf69g$cjk$1@sparta.btinternet.com> <aqfelj$826$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <aqilnl$b3k$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

Many thanks

I will try that.

regards
sreekant


Bengt Richter wrote:

>
> I've used the read capability, but I haven't tried writing using the wave
> module. But it looks straight forward. Check out (I am on windows 2.2.2
> here):
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-wave.html
>


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Nov 19 19:29:44 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:29:44 -0600
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <15834.52340.168573.470992@montanaro.dyndns.org> (Skip
 Montanaro's message of "Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:42:44 -0600")
References: <E18E3Rt-0001rG-00@tswings.swing.cluster>
	<mailman.1037698233.27806.python-list@python.org>
	<3DDABEF2.BE342B47@alcyone.com>
	<15834.52340.168573.470992@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <m2heed13t3.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

    Skip> I passed the earlier solution along to Barry Warsaw, Elisper
    Skip> Extraordinaire.  He apparently hadn't seen it before.  Look
    Skip> for it in a future python-mode.el, coming to a disk near
    Skip> you...

Great!  Will you give us a head up when it makes it into CVS?

Thanks,
John Hunter



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 12 06:52:12 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 11:52:12 GMT
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <Xns92C45FB7CFEE6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <aqqq1c$p71$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:32:35 +0000 (UTC), Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote:

>a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya) wrote in 
>news:fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8 at posting.google.com:
>
>> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
>> a single line of code.
>> 
>> perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
>> 
>> can python do something like this?
>> 
>Ca you explain please (because I don't really know Perl) what a program 
>that prints 1.#INF over and over again has to do with Fibonacci (at least 
>thats who who I think you meant)?
>
>Jeff's nice clear Python program prints out a Fibonacci series, but the 
>Perl one just seem to print a bit of a Fibonacci series which doesn't 
>strike me as terribly useful. Even the numbers it does print are mostly 
>approximations.
>
Here's another variant that will keep printing non-approximations (assuming a doesn't pre-exist):

    while 1: print vars().setdefault('a',[1,1]) and a.append(a.pop(0)+a[0]) or a[0]

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From leazen at uol.com.ar  Tue Nov  5 10:11:16 2002
From: leazen at uol.com.ar (Leazen)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 12:11:16 -0300
Subject: How does Python handle probing to see if a file already exists?
References: <pan.2002.11.05.10.28.55.506357@yahoo.com> <3DC7DDC2.6070306@uol.com.ar>
Message-ID: <3DC7DF94.1030008@uol.com.ar>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Oh, access is in the os module.

Leazen


Leazen wrote:
> The other answers are probably better but if you like the C way you
can use:
>
> access(path, mode)
> Check read/write/execute permissions for this process or existence of
> file path. mode should be F_OK to test the existence of path, or it can
> be the inclusive OR of one or more of R_OK, W_OK, and X_OK to test
> permissions. Return 1 if access is allowed, 0 if not. See the Unix man
> page access(2) for more information. Availability: Unix, Windows.
>
> F_OK
> Value to pass as the mode parameter of access() to test the existence of
> path.
>
> Just like you could in C.
>
> Leazen
>
>
>
> Christopher R. Culver wrote:
>
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I've just begun learning Python after already getting pretty proficient in
>>C. However, I'm having a problem with a simple copying program. Ideally,
>>the program would check to see if the destination already exists and
>>prompt the user. In this this would be as easy as saying:
>>
>>probe_destination = fopen(/usr/bin/foo, 'r')
>>if (probe_destination)
>>{
>>some code here;
>>}
>>
>>However, translating that directly into Python doesn't work because if
>>Python can't find a file to open, it doesn't just return 0, it gives an
>>error and exits. How can I write this functionality in Python so that it
>>returns 0 and continues, or does Python have a totally different way of
>>handling this problem than C?
>>
>>Christopher Culver
>>
>>
>
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE9x9+ShcKLjUu3XMkRAmjCAKDUk2Gi0Zn2qdjCWUYDP2+Vrd1jugCfXgS5
m4VwkLbJp5+HVOodH80KkL4=
=e+VR
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From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 27 22:41:43 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:41:43 +1300
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it> <3DE2893A.CCB631D6@jandecaluwe.com> <3DE449BD.1040503@something.invalid> <3DE48ECC.8FC9AE53@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <3DE59077.9070405@something.invalid>

Jan Decaluwe wrote:

> Ok, let me explain better. Suppose - for the sake of the
> argument - that I have a legitimate need for mutable numbers.
> 
> The point is then that I want to "inherit" the operators
> from the (mutable) value. 


If I understand you correctly, then no, you can't
turn an *existing* piece of immutable state into
mutable state -- the best you can do is add a new
piece of mutable state.

But then you won't be able to re-use the existing
operators simply by inheriting them, because
they'll be looking for the state in the old place.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From jrandom at mddd.com  Mon Nov 18 10:14:45 2002
From: jrandom at mddd.com (J. Random Hacker)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:14:45 -0500
Subject: wxPython question
References: <lNRB9.2743$fY3.294687@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <Xns92C9DA5E62FACcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.18.15.14.44.618996@mddd.com>

On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 21:26:44 +0200, Chris Liechti wrote:

> "joshua solomon" <jslm at earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:lNRB9.2743$fY3.294687 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net:
> 
>> Basically I have a loop within the OnPaint handler which I am using for
>> bouncing a ball around on a screen.
> 
> don't do the loop for the animation in the event handler. do it in a
> separate thread nad call Refresh() or us a wxClientDC to draw in that loop
> directly.
> 
> GUI rule 1: event handlers have to be short (in time)
> 
> so no animations and workers. use Threading instead.
> 

But don't always use threads, especially if you don't need to. I mention
it here, because things like your bouncing ball routine don't really need
threads. Threads come in handy when you want to schedule some long running
process that would be difficult or impossible to run in the main thread.
This solution works well, because having a few threads for throwing some
long running task to is cheap.

But in your case, there is no long running task that you have to break
out. All you are doing is changing some variables (the ball) at regular
intervals (thats all animation is). Changing variables doesn't take much
time at all, so its OK to do this in a event handler.
This is a prime job for a timer handler (a wxTimer).

Basically, write your bouncing ball actor in such a way that you can
update it on a frame by frame basis. It just needs some attributes like
vx, and vy (velocity). Then use a wxTimer at an apporpriate rate (say
40ms), to call a handler. The handler simply: updates the
ball vars (calculate new x and y values), and then draws.

class Canvas(wxPanel):
	def __init__(self, parent, id):
		...
	        tid = wxNewId()
        	self.timer = wxTimer(self, tid)
        	self.timer.Start(40)
		...
		EVT_TIMER(self, tid, self.OnNextFrame)

	def OnNextFrame(self, event):
		... update ball variables
		self.Refresh()



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 15 09:19:11 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:19:11 GMT
Subject: property problems
References: <46a101c28bb2$6f2d1420$7635bcc3@blueyonder.net> <1wOA9.85898$MGm1.48783@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <LXOA9.8568$744.290820@news1.tin.it> <eab1ra.0v1.ln@anto.cuni.lan>
Message-ID: <zn7B9.17518$Yw.751056@news2.tin.it>

Antonio Cuni wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
>> What really determines if x is a new-style class is x's metaclass,
>> and rather than inheriting it from x's base (which is the normal
>> way to do it) you may alternatively choose to assert it explicitly
>> by a __metaclass__ attribute in class scope (or a global variable
>> __metaclass__ in module scope if x has no bases).  x is new-style
>> iff x's metaclass is the built-in type object named 'type'.
>  
> uhm... type inherit from object, but object's metaclass is type: isn't
> there a recursion problem?
> 
> ciao Anto
> PS & OT: what's the english for "circolo vizioso"?

"Vicious circle" is fine.

There isn't one in the case you mention, though.  Suppose you had
a bunch of thingies with two attributes each:
    athingy.mybase    the thingy that's athingy's base, or None
    athingy.mytype    the thingy that's athingy's type, or None

and in particular that object and type were names of two thingies, now:
    object.mytype = type
    type.mybase = object

where is the "recursion problem"?  Thingies ARE allowed to point to
each other -- what problem do you see with this?

If you write CODE that tries to navigate this graph, you do of
course have to be aware that it's not necessarily an acyclic graph
(depending on what set of links you consider).  So...?  Your code
may indeed have "recursion problems" if it unwarrantedly assumes
it's navigating an acyclic graph where the assumption doesn't hold,
of course.  But that would hardly be surprising -- whenever you write
code that assumes more conditions than can be guaranteed, problems
of one kind or another are likely to arise.


Alex



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 13:03:53 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:03:53 GMT
Subject: Problem with list assignment
References: <mailman.1037892569.8801.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <de9D9.37714$744.1355170@news1.tin.it>

Jesse Lawrence wrote:
  ...
>    # here's the problem area:
>    header = []
>    i = 0;
>    for r in row:
>       header[i] = r[0]
>       i = i + 1
>    return header

change this snippet to, for example:
    header = []
    for r in row:
        header.append(r[0])
    return header
or more concisely to the single line:
    return [r[0] for r in row]

You can't assign to items of a list that do not yet exist: you can append 
to the list, or build the list in one gulp with the list-comprehension 
construct I've used in the "single line" version.


Alex



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 22 04:51:49 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:51:49 GMT
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com> <arhisr$6k9$1@wheel2.two14.net> <9k3D9.35511$744.1314342@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1037947958.17632.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <V6nD9.40037$744.1434194@news1.tin.it>

John Hunter wrote:
   ...
> That said, I too am unsatisfied with the M*N performance of the (rgx,
> func) pattern:
> 
>   for line in lines[:M]:
>      for rgx in regexs[:N]:
>          mo = rgx.match(line)
>          if mo: do_something(mo)

If you need to process the match objects for ALL the RE's that match,
I don't think you can do _substantially_ better in general.

> You've mentioned named rgx's in your previous posts.  In the case of
> differential processing of match objects based on the regex match, is
> there a more efficient way to process the mo's than this M*N approach?

If in a given application the case of 'no matches' is very frequent,
then a first-pass check on the line to see whether it does match at
least one of the RE's may give practical advantages, but I don't think
it can possibly change the O() behavior, just potentially give better
multipliers.  And if you need to process mo's for all matches with
the various RE's, rather than just the first match with one of the RE's
taken in some order of priority, then I think that's about it in
terms of the speedups that you can get (without getting into detailed
processing of the patterns involed, and even then, whether you can
get any benefit _at all_ depends on WHAT set of paterns you have).


Alex



From nicholas.y at NOSPAM.immersivetechnologies.com  Tue Nov 26 19:52:44 2002
From: nicholas.y at NOSPAM.immersivetechnologies.com (Nicholas Yue)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:52:44 +0800
Subject: CVS
References: <X4UE9.128865$WL3.60156@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <3de41768$0$18756@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

"Ali K" <akakakhel at attbi.com> wrote in message
news:X4UE9.128865$WL3.60156 at rwcrnsc54...
> What is CVS?

    http://www.cvshome.org/
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/cvsgui

Cheers
--
Nicholas Yue





From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 14 09:49:18 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:49:18 GMT
Subject: lists changed to tuples unexpectedly!
References: <c3835e5f.0211140644.18590798@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3vg30xl9l.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu (Chris Fonnesbeck) writes:

> A very strange thing is occurring to me in Python 2.2.2; I have a module
> that builds a tuple of nested lists like the following:
> 
> # All possible action combinations
> actions = [(((i,0),),((j,j),)) for i in (0,1,2,3,4) for j in
> (0.0,0.1,0.2)]
> 
> I then pass this list as an argument to a class within the module, and it
> magically becomes a tuple of tuples:

This seems unlikely, in the face of it.

> class QOptimizer(ReinforcementLearning.GradientDescentWatkinsQ):
>     'Optimization using Q(Lambda) RL algorithm'
> 
>     def __init__(self,
>                  actions,
>                  states,
>                  init_state,
>                  state_dynamics_function,
>                  objective_function,
>                  rounding = 0,
>                  roundto = 50000,
>                  Alpha = 0.1,
>                  Epsilon = 0.2):
> 
> 	print actions
> 
> 	... etc.
> 
> This gives:
> 
> [[[   [ 0.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.   0. ]]]
>  [[   [ 0.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.1  0.1]]]
>  [[   [ 0.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.2  0.2]]]
>  [[   [ 1.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.   0. ]]]
>  [[   [ 1.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.1  0.1]]]
>  [[   [ 1.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.2  0.2]]]
>  [[   [ 2.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.   0. ]]]
>  [[   [ 2.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.1  0.1]]]
>  [[   [ 2.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.2  0.2]]]
>  [[   [ 3.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.   0. ]]]
>  [[   [ 3.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.1  0.1]]]
>  [[   [ 3.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.2  0.2]]]
>  [[   [ 4.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.   0. ]]]
>  [[   [ 4.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.1  0.1]]]
>  [[   [ 4.   0. ]]
>   [   [ 0.2  0.2]]]]

That's not the output you get when you print any of the native types
of Python.  It looks a bit like a Numeric.array, though.

> Why did I make lists, and get tuples?

Can you post a complete piece of code showing the problem?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste.
              -- Steve Jobs, (From _Triumph of the Nerds_ PBS special)
                         and quoted by Aahz Maruch on comp.lang.python


From rmunn at pobox.com  Fri Nov 29 13:44:24 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:44:24 GMT
Subject: importing question ?
References: <3de62963$0$214$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0211281453360.24815-100000@for.mat>
Message-ID: <slrnaufdjd.5cc.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Martyn Quick <mrq at for.mat.bham.ac.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Jonas Geiregat wrote:
> 
>>  >>> import classes
>>  >>> a = veryBigSnake()
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> NameError: name 'veryBigSnake' is not defined
>>  >>> from classes import *
>>  >>> a = veryBigSnake()
>> 
>> why doesn't the first import work ?
>> and the second does
>> 
>> and what is the difference between those two ?
> 
> With the first you are importing the command in the form
> classes.veryBigSnake, so the following would work:
> 
> import classes
> a = classes.veryBigSnake()
> 
> and would give the same as
> 
> from classes import *
> a = veryBigSnake()
> 
> The difference is that the second hides where veryBigSnake comes from and
> can cause confusion if you were to change the meaning of the function in
> the middle of your code.  With the first you're less likely to do this.
> 
> Experts can explain this in the proper technical language better than I
> can.  ;-)

The "proper technical language" for this sort of thing is "namespaces".
Python names (function names, variable names, class names, whatever)
live in namespaces. Namespaces themselves also have names -- or, rather,
they're attached to named objects. Let me explain. Say you create a
class "myClass", like so:

    class myClass:
        foo = 1
        bar = "Testing'

The name "myClass" refers to a class object. That class object has a
namespace attached, and that namespace contains two names, foo and bar.
You can access these names as "myClass.foo" and "myClass.bar".

Modules also have namespaces. If the above class definiton was in a
module called "mymodule.py", this would be the correct way to access
"foo" and "bar" from the myClass definition:

    import mymodule
    print mymodule.myClass.foo
    print mymodule.myClass.bar

Note that myClass is inside the mymodule namespace, so it is accessed
via the dot operator (which looks up names in namespaces). If you wanted
myClass to get imported into the global namespace, the way to do it is:

    from mymodule import myClass
    print myClass.foo
    print myClass.bar

"from <module> import <name>" finds the name in the namespace of that
module, and imports that name into the namespace that you are currently
running in (usually this will be the global namespace). It is *always* a
bad idea to do "from <module> import *"! A few modules are designed to
be used this way, but they specifically say so in their documentation
and usually have naming conventions designed to prevent namespace
collision.

One last concept: the global namespace. The global namespace is the
highest-level namespace. When you run a Python program, it first starts
executing in the global namespace, and all assignment statements, import
statements, etc. place names into the global namespace. Other namespaces
can be accessed through names, like "myClass.foo" which accesses the
myClass namespace via the name myClass -- a name that resides in the
global namespace. But the global namespace does not have a name attached
to it (which namespace would that name reside in, anyway?). Sometimes
you might need to get access to the global namespace, and that is what
the globals() function is for -- it returns the global namespace (as a
Python dictionary, IIRC). You can then use that object for whatever
purposes you needed (like executing a particular bit of code in the
global namespace instead of a local namespace, for example).

I hope this helps someone understand namespaces better.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From shalehperry at attbi.com  Wed Nov 20 23:01:26 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:01:26 -0800
Subject: A simple question: How to exit from a python script? Just like the exit() in C++
In-Reply-To: <006801c29111$bf776660$d001a8c0@dctc.cs>
References: <006801c29111$bf776660$d001a8c0@dctc.cs>
Message-ID: <200211202001.26633.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On Wednesday 20 November 2002 19:54, Wang Hanbo wrote:
> Hi,
>
>          I have a simple question as is written in the header, how can I
> exit from a python program using a call such as "exit()" in C++?
>
>          I am a novice on this list, and also a rookie on python
> language, all of you answers will be my best impetus!
>          Thanks
>
>
> Hanbo
> 2002-11-21

a) import sys
   sys.exit() # takes the same parameter C++'s exit() takes

b) raise SystemExit # for when you do not want to import sys



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 23 08:25:34 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:25:34 -0500
Subject: Confusing list& Test
References: <mailman.1038044192.7498.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lladnfb0A-VA40KgXTWcpw@comcast.com>

Yes, you have made it to the real python news/mail group.

comp.lang.python is a newsgroup
python-list at python.org is a mailing list
python.org has a gateway that connects the two together: messages sent
to one are automatically sent to the other.  (Except, perhaps, for
obvious spam and other junk.) This lets people with access to both
choose the interface they prefer and those with access to just one get
that one.

> After a little web search I found yet anotherr python-list at
python.org, which
> seems to be the same list, and another hit (from 99) said that the
cwi.nl list
> had been moved to python.org.

Yes, cwi.nl was a previous host, years ago

> Isn't it about time to get the Reply-To field changed to the correct
address?
> What exactly is that yahoogroups list doing in all this?

I believe anything connected with yahoogroups is unofficial with
respect to python.org and the python developers.  Anyone can set up a
yahoo group on any topic and become the owner.  If a change is needed,
please contact the group owner.  You should be able to do this thru
the yahoo web interface.

Terry J. Reedy




From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Wed Nov 20 02:29:12 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 07:29:12 GMT
Subject: Telnetlib help.  I need a case function.
References: <1d4aad28.0211191310.6300984a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cRGC9.1537$Kw6.926874@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"higgeldy Piggeldy" <andys at collegenet.com> wrote in message
news:1d4aad28.0211191310.6300984a at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
> I wrote this script a while ago to renew my library books for me.

wow.  what an age we live in.




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sun Nov 24 19:50:19 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 00:50:19 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE040DF.EACC7D3A@kolumbus.fi> <87bs4fef72.fsf@key.localdomain>
Message-ID: <yfs7kf2bhh0.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Patrick W <patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au> writes:

> Martti Halminen <martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi> writes:
> 
> > Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> > 
> > > for item in container:             ; no convienient idiom (?)
> > >     print item
> > 
[...]
> And for acting upon each item within a container, the usual idiom is
> (mapcar #'function list) or (map 'output-type #'function sequence).
> The various mapping functions in Lisp remove a lot of the need for
> explicit loops (similar to the way in which list comprehensions
> replace many loops in modern Python).

While functional programming constructs like map replace the need for loops in
many cases, they don't replace the need for a generalized iteration protocol
(in python you can ``map`` or ``filter`` over any container).

alex


From bkc at Murkworks.com  Wed Nov 13 17:30:38 2002
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:30:38 -0500
Subject: Graham's spam filter
References: <20021113220949.2daa7540.christophe.delord@free.fr>
Message-ID: <3dd2cfa7$1_5@goliath.newsgroups.com>

You may wish to check out

http://spambayes.sf.net



--
Novell DeveloperNet Sysop #5

_
"Christophe Delord" <christophe.delord at free.fr> wrote in message
news:20021113220949.2daa7540.christophe.delord at free.fr...
> Hello,
>
> There was discussion on this group about spam filtering using Graham's
> filter. I'm surely not the first to do it but I found the exercise
> interesting and I wrote my own filter. My filter is still very young (and
> maybe not very stable) but it is efficient (on my little spam corpus I
> only miss 5 per 100 spams. I know I'm far from Graham's results). So those
> who are interested (and adventurous) can find it here:
> http://christophe.delord.free.fr/en/popf
>
> This filter is yet another POP3 proxy, uses an automatic white list (ie
> the list of people the user has sent emails before) and is fast enough to
> be used on a personal computer (it doesn't accept multiple connections at
> the same time but you can have multiple POP3 accounts). The filter decodes
> base64 attachments too. When a spam is detected, the subject is tagged and
> the mail client has to be configured to move those tagged spams in the
> spam corpus.
>
> Of course it is written in Python ;-) I'm using it on Linux, don't know if
> it work with windows.
>
> Best regards,
> Christophe.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> (o_   Christophe Delord                   _o)
> //\   http://christophe.delord.free.fr/   /\\
> V_/_  mailto:christophe.delord at free.fr   _\_V




-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Nov 10 14:36:13 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:36:13 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqlos7$66p$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <qpwz9.16127$oC3.1394670@news010.worldonline.dk> <3dce96ad$0$12451$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> <roy-F3613B.12301610112002@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3DCEB52D.98B12B05@alcyone.com>

Roy Smith wrote:

> Jens Axel Sogaard <usenet at jasoegaard.dk> wrote:
>
> > I can't remember a link - but if you want to Google for them,
> > they were calles M-expressions.
> 
> Not (plus s 1) expressions? :-)

You mean (1+ s)?  :-)

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ With such a weapon I could boil the Earth to vapor.
\__/ Chmeee
    CSBuddy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/csbuddy/
 A Counter-Strike server log file monitor in Python.


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Nov 11 16:41:09 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:41:09 -0000
Subject: Is python a good choice for this task?
References: <pan.2002.11.11.20.29.19.704887.2239@spongebob.corporate.com> <aqp58f$8pm$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <ut08vl458fs60d@corp.supernews.com>

In article <aqp58f$8pm$1 at peabody.colorado.edu>,
Fernando P?rez  <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Ron Lau wrote:
>
>> My question is, What language is best suited for this? Perl, Python, or
>> shell scripts?
>
>Well, from each of the groups you posted to you'll get a different answer. But 
>of course, two of them will be wrong. You should use python :)
>
>Kidding aside, such a simple task can be done in any of those without any 
>effort. I'd still suggest python because it's a better language than the 
>others for a number of things (yes, I've used all three extensively). 
>Especially if you have a scientific computing background: if you poke around 
>the web a bit, you'll find that python is becoming very popular in scientific 
>computing circles, and for good reason. See http://scipy.org/ or  
			.
			.
			.
Yes.

I have a soft spot for Tcl in this role.  I think Tcl's sub-
process spawning is perceptibly easier than the {popen,popen2,
popen3} we most often recommend to newcomers.  Moreover, Tcl
has the slickest Tk integration, so that it's falling-off-a-
log-like for even a beginner to wrap such legacy applications
with a simple GUI <URL:
http://zeus.itworld.com:9000/AppDev/4061/swol-1218-regex/  >.
The December issue of the *C/C++ Users Journal* elaborates
this.

However, I entirely agree with the main conclusions:
* Mr. Lau will be happy wrapping up his old program,
  and, for as thin a layer as he currently wants,
  any of the common languages will do fine.
* Python has the most headroom.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From maxm at mxm.dk  Sat Nov 30 06:19:41 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:19:41 +0100
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
In-Reply-To: <Xns92D5A0F06C778duncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>
References: <1038571003.6023.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <mailman.1038579643.30978.python-list@python.org> <Xns92D5A0F06C778duncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DE89ECD.2040203@mxm.dk>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> Oren Tirosh <oren-py-l at hishome.net> wrote in news:mailman.1038579643.30978.python-list at python.org:

> Or a nearly empty class if you want to be lazier when creating
> the objects:
> 
> 
>>>>class Struct:
> 
> 	def __init__(self, **args):
> 		vars(self).update(args)


There is a special notes in the docs warning against changing the values 
  that are returned from vars()

This is the more "correct" way to do it.

     class Struct:
         def __init__(self, **kw):
             self.__dict__.update(kw)


regards Max M



From capsthorne at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Nov  5 05:48:14 2002
From: capsthorne at yahoo.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:48:14 +0000
Subject: Book recommendation please
References: <1036349092.40578.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net> <LAex9.66857$aL4.2045429@news1.tin.it> <1036355743.4079.0@doris.uk.clara.net> <usd637a95fqkd8@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1036493255.33402.0@doris.uk.clara.net>

On Mon, 04 Nov 2002 15:55:19 +0000, Cameron Laird wrote:

> To congratulate you on your insight that worthwhile languages need not
> be compiled (in the usual sense), let me reinforce it:  Python (and
> other high-level languages) have a record of achievement that compares
> favorably to those of C++, Java, ... in every way, apart from marketing.
> ...

Thanks, it is remarkable how quickly one's views can change.  To take
another example, I began by thinking that the interpreter could onlly be a
toy and that any useful "five finger exercises" I might write would
inevitably need to be in a script.  Wrong again ...

Regards,

Geoff



From ark at research.att.com  Wed Nov 27 13:29:35 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:29:35 GMT
Subject: More pythonic way to change an element of a tuple?
References: <as314e$c4u$2@naig.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <yu99of8avpbk.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Richard> I frequently have to change a single element of a tuple,

Why are you using tuples if you want to change the elements?

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Nov 29 16:16:50 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:16:50 -0600
Subject: Embedding Python and built-in types
In-Reply-To: <000b01c297ea$de27d8d0$9600000a@ashe>
References: <mailman.1038595960.26200.python-list@python.org> <m3hee0t7q5.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <000b01c297ea$de27d8d0$9600000a@ashe>
Message-ID: <20021129151649.B6957@unpythonic.net>

On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 10:04:11PM +0100, Mickael Putters wrote:
> Well, I was talking about the assignment operator, maybe it's not =.
> Yeah well guess I'll have to modify the source, I thought maybe there would
> be a way to do that already present in Python/C.
> Anyway, thanks.

There is no "assignment operator for integers".  The code to execute
    x = v
is the same no matter the type of v (or the type x may have had before the
assignment, as long as you ignore the possible destructor call on decref).
(In C, for a function local variable x, it's basically a decrement of the
reference count of the old local, an increment of the reference count of
'v', and a store of the 'v' in the locals array)  "Everything is a
reference"

If you want to override assignments like
    o.x = v
then you can override __setattr__ for the object o.  Similarly,
there are __setitem__ and __setslice__.  In 2.2 and newer, when you
subclass object you can use property() to do the same thing as __setattr__
in a nicer way.

Jeff



From costanza at web.de  Sun Nov 10 08:45:30 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:45:30 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7b8f89d6.0211081548.f91b468@posting.google.com> <aqjku8$njc$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3DCE003C.9080505@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <aqlntp$66p$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
> Pascal Costanza:
> 
>> I have recently switched over to Common Lisp as my language of choice 
>> and have written an article about it, to be found at 
>> http://www.pascalcostanza.de/lisp/guide.html - you might find it 
>> worthwhile.
> 
> It's a discussion of Lisp, with only a few points specifically of
> why you switched from Java to Lisp and one mention of Python.  (There
> were two references to Monty Python, from which Python the language got
> its name.)  I was hoping for a more philosophical rumination of why
> you chose Java over Python.  :(

This was merely an accident. Back in 95 I based my diploma thesis on 
Java, and this decision was influenced by many factors. It wasn't until 
recently that I learned about Python.

> Some points that are weaker in a Python/Lisp comparison are
> 
>  - Python doesn't have as many "funny names" as Lisp

I guess you are referring to "car", "cdr" and the like. They're actually 
not funny but very useful. ("car" returns the first element of a list, 
"cdr" the list of all elements but the first. You can also use "first" 
and "rest" instead, and also "second", "third", and so on, and also "nth".)

>  - Python also does run-time typing rather than static typing

Yes, I like that. :)

>  - You say
>  > Please remember that due to their syntax, C-like languages and Pascal 
>  > might also run into trouble when curly braces or begin/end keywords
>  > are used incorrectly in conjunction with control statements (like if,
>  > while, switch/case, and so on)
> 
> But Python doesn't have that problem, given neither braces nor begin/end
> keywords.  Indeed, you seem to suggest that all Algol-derived languages
> are like C/C++/Pascal/Java in having explicit delimiters, a separate
> compilation step, static typing,

You're right, I should be more careful with my wording in this regard. I 
will check that.

>   - You say:
>  > A nice thing about Lisp is that it doesn't noticeably distinguish
>  > between built-in functions and user-defined functions.
> 
> The same is true for Python.

:)

> You talk about Lisp's macro feature.  That's come up  several times
> on c.l.py.  I understand at least theoretically the usefulness of
> macros.  However, I am quite worried about the supportability of
> defining your own language on the fly.  For the comparison I would
> have like to have seen, I was hoping for comments on the
> maintainability of macros, especially given that some people like
> you have found "them to be conceptually quite simple and easy to
> write" while others find them "seemingly hard to understand."  I
> believe the answer is you want a language which emphasises your
> personal expressive power and not which which emphasises the
> team's/project's/group's power.

I don't think that Lisp favors personal expressive power over group's 
power. Maybe the group that uses Lisp has to agree on more conventions 
than in other languages (but I am not sure about that).

Macros are conceptually very simple: they just process lists of code 
before it is actually executed. This gives you lots of power, but of 
course you need to be a good programmer to be able to wisely use this 
power. Lisp is a programming language for experts.

> I read your mention that Lisp allows recoverability at the place
> where the exception took place.  I recall reading in my progamming
> languages book back in college that that ends up not being all that
> useful, but I can't provide a reference for that now.  In my
> own current thinking, I agree with the book.

It can be useful in some situations. For example, imagine you have a big 
and expensive calculation running, and after, say, three days there is a 
little bug in some code section that handles a very special case. In 
Common Lisp there's a chance that this bug throws a correctable error 
(exception) - this is reported at the Lisp prompt. Then you can correct 
the buggy code section and try to restart the calculation at the spot 
where the error occurred, without any loss of intermediate results.

Similar situations are conceivable for example in the case of web 
applications that you usually don't want to shut down, etc.

I think that correctable errors are less useful in languages that don't 
offer some form of interactivity.

> So I would also have prefered more examples of why a feature was
> not only available in Lisp but why that feature is useful for
> most programming tasks.  (And you are a fan of "practical things
> that you need in every-day programming" so should stress usefulness
> over ability.)

Thanks a lot for your very useful feedback - I will try to incorporate 
it into future versions of my article.


All the best,
Pascal


-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM  Wed Nov 13 03:32:46 2002
From: Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM (Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 00:32:46 -0800
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ? - testing without preview
References: <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOOENPDPAA.marklists@mceahern.com> <mailman.1036484650.32647.python-list@python.org> <44ee1dc2.0211120441.465eeb62@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <44ee1dc2.0211130032.6a0d4d56@posting.google.com>

this time i remove everything , and ask Google ? Post message - NO preview ?


From pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Nov 11 13:55:25 2002
From: pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:55:25 +0100
Subject: Search Engine
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.11.19.55.24.880692.711@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi!

I need a search engine which can handle this
kind of data:

{"1": #Object one
  {"foo_attribute1": "my data",
   "foo_attribute2": "foo bar, bla blu",
   ...},
 "2": #Object two
  {"foo_attribute1": "bau",
   "foo_attribute2": "next one",
   ...
  }
 ...
}

The attributes can contain several MByte of
text. The text should be searchable.

There will be several thousand objects

I need the following API:

 search_engine.addObject(myObj)

 search_engine.search(
      {
       "foo_attribute1": "word1",
       "foo_attribute2": "word2" 
      })

 search_engine.deleteObject(id="1")


Up to now I have two possible solutions:

 1. Hack htdig to do the things I want to,
    and add a python interface

 2. Use ZCatalog

What do you think? Has some experience with
python-based searchengines?

 thomas

-- 
Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
http://www.thomas-guettler.de


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Nov  4 00:22:04 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 21:22:04 -0800
Subject: can't assign value to array element
References: <HoCdnRcDleGnR1igXTWcqg@ctc.net>
Message-ID: <s505qa.pr4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Joe Heafner fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 03 November 2002 
06:23 pm:


> m=10
> 

> y = zeros(m, Float)

> 
> for j in range(0,m,1):

>     y[j+1] = y+(k1+2.*k2+2.k3+k4)/6.
>     t[j+1] = a+h*(j+1)
> 
> When run, this code give the error "TypeError: object does not support
> item assignment" for hte next to last line. I presume the last line
> would give the same error. I'm very new to Python and haven't been
> able to find documentation about htis specific problem, and I've been
> working (literally) all day on this. What am I doint wrong? I'd
> appreciate any help.
>
        Uhmmm... Assuming zeros(m, Float) produces an array indexed from 
0..(m-1), then won't the last iteration of the for loop generate y[10] 
=...  IE, out of range...


-- 
--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  1 21:08:58 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 02:08:58 -0000
Subject: Textbooks on Perl/Python
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <3DC32F83.8990DEC9@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <us6ctqqf2bq979@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3DC32F83.8990DEC9 at alcyone.com>,
Erik Max Francis  <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>Jalab wrote:
>
>> Any help in finding a university level textbook on the subject of
>> "Scripting languages" I am mainly looking for a book that covers Perl
>> and Python only as the 2 main scripting languages and that is written
>> for students, i.e. chapter summary, exercises, etc. I hate to force my
>> student to buy and study from two separate books.
>
>I doubt you'll find one that will really cover both subjects adequately,
>since they're totally different languages.  The only thing I can think
>of that comes close is the "little language" books, that give a brief
>summary of a wide variety of "little," high-level languages.  The one
>I'm familiar with (though I don't own it) is _HPL: Little Languages and
>Tools_ by Salus (editor).
			.
			.
			.
I'm plenty opinionated on this subject.

There isn't such a book as Jalab wants.  It'd be great
fun to write one, but there isn't a market ... well, I'll
just say such a book doesn't exist now.

What's your goal for the students?  To be ready to go out
in industry and solve problems?  To understand the theory
and practice of industrial-strength "scripting languages"?
To pad their r?sum?s?  To safety-proof them so they
don't hurt themselves the first time they're asked to
write a dynamic Web page?  To supplement an academic course
on DSLs?  I know what *I*'d do in each case--and they're
not all the same answer.

I'm all for people buying *Little Languages and Tools*,
incidentally.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From Marten.Bauer at gmx.net  Sat Nov 16 05:31:45 2002
From: Marten.Bauer at gmx.net (Marten Bauer)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:31:45 +0100
Subject: Python als PHP ersatz?
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.16.10.31.44.540676@gmx.net>

Hallo,

ich habe ein Datenbank und die entsprechenden Software dazu in Python 
geschrieben.
Nun m?chte ich f?r den User eine Weboberfl?che programmieren.
Ich habe schon ein Version in HTML+PHP vorliegen. Ist dasselbe auch
mit HTML+Python m?glich?

Womit kann ich das machen?
- ModPython f?r Apache
- Twisted Web (Netzwerk Library)
?

Kann mir da jemand weiterhelfen?

MfG
Marten


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 23 10:42:01 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 15:42:01 GMT
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <aro7k9$o9u$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:53:42 GMT, Andrew Koenig <ark at research.att.com> wrote:

>Eric> So I told myself: wouldn't it be great if max(None, x) or
>Eric> min(None, x) always simply returned x?
>
>My first thought was that this was an excellent idea.
>
>Then I thought again.
>
>Here's the problem:  The notion that max(None, x) and min(None, x)
>should both return x is one of three desirable properties that cannot
>all be true at once.  Here are the other two:
>
>        1) Whenever x < y, min(x, y) is x and max(x, y) is y.
>
>        2) < is an order relation over all types.
>
>The desirability of (1) should be obvious.  (2) is more subtle, but
>it is necessary for it to be possible to sort a vector of heterogenously
>typed objects.
>
>Now, if max(None, x) and min(None, x) both yield x, and (1) is true,
>then x > None and x < None must both be true.  But then (2) cannot
>be true.
>
>So the cost of your proposal would be either to break the consistency
>between max/min and >/<, or to render unsortable vectors of values
>that include None.
>
>I don't think it's worth it.
>
How about adding optional keyword args to min and max, so the semantics
would be something like (not very tested ;-):

 >>> class private_sentinel: pass
 ...
 >>> def mymax(*seq, **kw):
 ...     exclude = kw.get('exclude', private_sentinel)
 ...     empty = kw.get('empty', private_sentinel)
 ...     try:
 ...         return max(filter(lambda x: not isinstance(x, exclude), seq))
 ...     except ValueError:
 ...         if empty == private_sentinel: raise
 ...         return empty
 ...
 >>> mymax(None, 2, 3)
 3
 >>> mymax(None, 2, 3, exclude=(int,type(None)),empty='nothing left')
 'nothing left'
 >>> mymax(None, 2, 3,'a string', exclude=(int,type(None)),empty='nothing left')
 'a string'

(oops, that 'if empty == ...' would have been better as 'if empty is ...')

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov  5 20:23:06 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 01:23:06 GMT
Subject: More about simple question
References: <mailman.1036473127.22853.python-list@python.org> <aq7sf7$ebc$0@216.39.172.122> <3DC7BF20.95768C4@felis.uni-freiburg.de>
Message-ID: <aq9qtq$rp0$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:52:48 +0100, Joerg Woelke <dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>> 
>> On Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:11:52 -0800 (PST), xinghua shi <csshi99 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >--0-1493159574-1036473112=:21756
>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> import sys,os,string
>> >>
>> >> pid = os.getpid()
>> >>
>> >> filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid)
>
>Maybe you are interested in os.tempnam, os.tmpfile or
>os.tmpnam?
>
I think you may be confusing me with someone else, who might be interested ;-)

>[ snip ]
>
>> Regards,
>> Bengt Richter
>
>HTH, J"o!
>
>-- 
>sigfault

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov  7 12:56:44 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 17:56:44 GMT
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036637768.2375.python-list@python.org> <slrnasl805.d1h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <aqe9gs$ea4$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:16:53 -0000, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <mailman.1036637768.2375.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters wrote:
>> You didn't answer the question about what you *intended* 0x80000000 to mean.
>
>I intend it to mean a set bit followed by 31 cleared bits.
>
>> The answer to your question follows from that.  If you intended a 1 bit
>> followed by 31 zero bits, then, no, -0x7fffffff-1 doesn't mean that on some
>> platforms even today (or even in 1993, for that matter <wink>).
>
>What platforms doesn't it mean that on? What does it mean on those
>platforms? Are you talking about platforms with 16-bit integers?
>If so, I don't care.

How about
 
    BIT31 = 1<<31

and then use BIT31 wherever?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Nov 15 10:31:11 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:31:11 -0600
Subject: keyword arguments and **
In-Reply-To: <3dd51831$0$13642$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl> (Boudewijn
 Rempt's message of "Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:51:32 +0100")
References: <3dd51831$0$13642$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <m2smy226kg.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Boudewijn" == Boudewijn Rempt <boud at valdyas.org> writes:

    Boudewijn> I feel right silly, but for the life of I don't
    Boudewijn> understand why the variables I pass to f as named
    Boudewijn> arguments stay remembered:

    >>>> def f(fields={}, **args):

The problem is with fields={}.  This is a famous problem that catches
everybody at least once that is caused by using use a mutable type as
the default value for a keyword argument.  A mutable type is one that
can be changed (list, dict) and an immutable one is one that cannot
(int, string, tuple, ...).

To avoid the problem you are seeing, you need to initialize fields
within the function itself.  The standard idiom is:

def f(fields=None, **args):
    if fields is None: fields = {}
    print fields
    fields.update(args)
    print "XXX", fields
 
f(a=1)
f(b=1)

For a little more information, take a look at this thread on
google groups

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=mailman.1037195388.11008.python-list%40python.org&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fas_q%3Dpitfall%26safe%3Doff%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26as_ugroup%3D*python*%26lr%3D%26num%3D30%26as_scoring%3Dd%26hl%3Den

John Hunter



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov  8 09:37:34 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 14:37:34 GMT
Subject: Virtual Filesystem (was: Adding ftputil to the Python distribution?)
References: <aq6kpl$td1$1@news.online.de> <mailman.1036573573.23006.python-list@python.org> <f199e60.0211070207.5ed58c25@posting.google.com> <slrnasle8i.v6v.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org> <f199e60.0211080120.5818779b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqgi7e$j67$0@216.39.172.122>

On 8 Nov 2002 01:20:16 -0800, stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl) wrote:

>Jacob Smullyan <smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org> wrote in message news:<slrnasle8i.v6v.smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org>...
>> In article <f199e60.0211070207.5ed58c25 at posting.google.com>, Stephan Diehl wrote:
>> > Talking about a future VFS: is there already somethings planned? It
>> > would be very nice to access a local filesystem, remote filesystem
>> > (over ssh/scp), ftp server, webdav server,...  with the same set of
>> > commands.
>> 
>> SkunkWeb has a vfs package (which can be used independently) that you
>> might be interested in:
>> 
>> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/skunkweb/skunkweb/pylibs/vfs/
>> 
>> Features:
>> 
>> 1. implementations for local fs, ftp, zip/tar/tgz archives, and a
>> "multifs" in which it is possible to mount other fses with
>> considerable flexibility (for instance, it is possible for a mount to
>> change its mount point dynamically, which is useful in the context of
>> web server document roots, where you may want a document root to shift
>> for a particular request while other mounts remain in the same place
>> relative to that shift). 
>> 
>> 2. Writing a new fs is fairly trivial.  The interface is adequate for
>> many needs, and supports read-only as well as read-write fses. 
>> 
>> 3. an import hook (using Gordon MacMillan's superb iu.py) which
>> enables you to import python modules from any fs implementation. This
>> is actually a big gain, from my point of view, as struggling with
>> import hooks is something I'd rather do once and then forget about.
>> Apparently Python Labs feels the same way, which is why we're still
>> stuck with having to write them! 
>> 
>> There is some code, namely, PathPropertyStore and its illegitimate
>> offspring, that you might as well ignore.  I was fiddling at one time
>> with the notion of providing a general way of storing properties
>> associated with vfs files, but came to the conclusion that this level
>> of abstraction is not such a hot place, data-integrity-wise, to
>> implement that.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Jacob Smullyan
>
>Thanks, that's excactly what I was thinking of/looking for. And it
>shows to me that there is nearly nothing that has not been written in
>one form or another. I'd really like to see a vfs in the standard
>python distribution.
I too. But I believe any given implementation will implicitly reflect
conventions with respect to operations in abstract name space, and I think
that ought to be laid out in a PEP before adopting any particular implementation.

Otherwise there is likely to be special limitations, e.g., not being able
to delegate parsing of path tails to other vfs's mounted within the first, etc.
Also a virtual name space brings with it opportunity for orderly conventions
of use as opposed to ad hoc quilts of usage. A PEP can at least draw attention
to LSB/FHS type issues.

>
>Maybe, one day, we'll have a central register for python libraries. It
>seems to me that to many people (including me) are reinventing the
>wheel all the time because they just can't find the right library for
>the task at hand and just don't know project xyz that already solved
>the problem (and doesn't show up when googling)
>
As a habitual wheel re-inventor, I'll second the thought ;-)

OTOH, I think re-inventing has positive aspects sometimes. A certain
amount of reinventing is necessary for natural selection to have something
to select from in the evolutionary improvement of things. OTOH2, for
well-explored problems, it's an indulgence to reinvent something if you can find
and use something already implemented. (Of course, it _is_ satifying to find
that you have re-invented, even approximately, an algorithm that some real guru
has previously invented, and feel that you walked in the same ancient hallowed land,
even as you realize that you could have spent your time better for practical purposes).

The vfs above is very close to what I was talking about recently. But not
exactly, and not quite from the same POV. And any discussion of general
or genericized (v)file access will garner reminders that lisp has a lot
of prior art ;-)

My main thought before was that a virtual name space can be platform
independent (or at least contain such a subspace), and that could serve
the purpose of platform independence for Python.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Mon Nov 18 20:02:16 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:02:16 -0800
Subject: multi-quoted strings for HERE documents
In-Reply-To: <slrnatj24u.7mq.msoulier@tigger.digitaltorque.ca>
References: <slrnatj24u.7mq.msoulier@tigger.digitaltorque.ca>
Message-ID: <200211190102.RAA05229@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Monday 18 November 2002 16:40, Michael P. Soulier wrote:

>     Now, I can get close in Python with multi-line strings, like so...
>
> print """
> <table>
>     <tr>
>         <td>cell contents</td>
>     </r>
> </table>"""

[snipped] (regarding unwanted initial newline)

>     Does anyone have a better way of doing this?

print """\
<table>
    <tr>
        <td>cell contents</td>
    </r>
</table>"""


-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From wolfoxbr at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 21 08:27:55 2002
From: wolfoxbr at hotmail.com (Roberto Amorim)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 05:27:55 -0800
Subject: Read-only attributes using properties?
Message-ID: <82c04a2.0211210527.4d1a4393@posting.google.com>

I was thinking about trying to use the new properties on Python 2.2 to
implement read-only attributes. So I tried the following:

class MyException(Exception):
	pass

class TProp(object):
	def __init__(self):
		self.a = 0
	def get_a(self):
		return self.a
	def set_a(self, v):
		raise MyException
	a = property(get_a, set_a, None, "Test a")

t = TProp()
print t.a
t.a = 5

I was expecting that the script would fail with an exception on the
"t.a = 5" command. However, I was surprised to see the code fail on
the attribution inside __init__ - that is, there is no "inner class
scope", or direct access within the class itself, and no clear way to
initialize the property. If the property is an alias to the real
internal variable (call it size, for instance), it works, but then if
I try to add a __slots__ list excluding the internal var and only
adding the external reference (__slots__=("a")) it stops working
again.

Is there any other way to do that?

Thanks in advance,

Roberto


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Tue Nov 26 15:56:12 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:56:12 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE040DF.EACC7D3A@kolumbus.fi> <yfsbs4ebhnl.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE2AEFE.BF188406@kolumbus.fi> <3DE2B626.6000009@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <uu7nuvsbgno1c7@news.supernews.com>

"Kenny Tilton" <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3DE2B626.6000009 at nyc.rr.com...
>
>
> Martti Halminen wrote:
> > Alexander Schmolck wrote:
>
> >>Well, if you prefer then elt is inconsistent :)
> >
> > Sure it is. We are talking about a language that had as one of its
> > primary design criteria at least some compatibility with existing
code
> > bases in its predecessors, so many design warts had to be retained.
> > Obviously not a problem for people getting to define their language
on a
> > clean slate.
>
> And this will set an upper bound on how far Python can go, with an
> obligation not to break all the stuff piling up in the Vaults. (Not
that
> I am aware of any actual desire to take the language in new
directions;
> I get the feeling "less is more" was the Prime Directive.)

I believe he was talking about Lisp in that paragraph, not Python.
However,
your comment re. Python is IMO correct; there's a desire to avoid
gratuitously breaking older code in newer releases. However, that hasn't
stopped things like the integer division change, or the new yield
keyword for generators. Both of those *will* break code.

John Roth
>
> --
>
>   kenny tilton
>   clinisys, inc
>   ---------------------------------------------------------------
> ""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
>    and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
>                                                    Elwood P. Dowd
>




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Mon Nov  4 04:50:50 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:50:50 -0000 
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDA86@intrepid>

> From:	aahz at pythoncraft.com [SMTP:aahz at pythoncraft.com]
> >3) Ask her for a date
> 
> <chuckle>  She lives in Toronto (I'm in California) and I'm not her type.
 
Yeah, but asking her out would put her on the back foot, and you can win the
Java vs. Python argument for once and for all.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning




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From costanza at web.de  Mon Nov 11 05:41:12 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:41:12 +0100
Subject: Reading code and writing code
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <3DCD8571.6CACEA04@alcyone.com> <mailman.1036997596.17197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DCF8948.8040100@web.de>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:
> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote previously:
> |The same goes for Lisp (and all its variants, like Scheme).  You might
> |have to count parentheses if you had to physically write it down with
> |pencil and paper, but in the real world you'll be using an editor, and
> |the editor will help you match parentheses and do the gruntwork for you.
> 
> This is not the same real world I live in!
> 
> In my real world, I probably spend at least 10x as much time READING
> code as I do WRITING it.  I certainly read more of my own code than of
> anyone elses, but I still have to *read* it when I come back to it after
> more than a few minutes... especially when it is a few months or years.

It's actually quite simple to read Lisp source code _once you have 
gotten used to it_. Lispers aren't a bunch of masochists who like to 
torture themselves. If Lisp code were so hard to read it wouldn't have 
survived over 40 years.

You wouldn't reject learning, say, Japanese or Chinese _just_ because of 
their seemingly funny alphabet, would you? ;) It's essentially the same 
with Lisp: It looks funny and takes one week more to get used to, but 
then you've basically mastered it.


Pascal

-- 
Pascal Costanza               University of Bonn
mailto:costanza at web.de        Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de  R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)



From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov  5 12:45:36 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:45:36 GMT
Subject: List slice assignment and custom sequences
References: <mailman.1036276862.18969.python-list@python.org> <m2k7jsm7u7.fsf@python.net> <OYRx9.74306$aL4.2306026@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <m2u1ivlxkh.fsf@python.net>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
> 
> > Ronald Oussoren <oussoren at cistron.nl> writes:
> > 
> >> No, I want to replace part of a sequence by another sequence. I don't
> >> understand _why_ the RHS must be a list if the LHS is one.
> > 
> > Because Objects/listobject.c:list_ass_slice pokes directly into the
> > object passed on the RHS.
> > 
> > A patch to change this would have some chance of getting accepted;
> > wouldn't like to guess what, but I'd hazard non-zero.
> 
> Done -- just submitted as patch 633870 on Sourceforge, pls review.

Not only reviewed, but BDFL approved and checked in!

that-one-went-quickly-ly y'rs
M.

-- 
  ZAPHOD:  Listen three eyes, don't try to outwierd me, I get stranger
           things than you free with my breakfast cereal.
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 7


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 23 20:35:50 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 20:35:50 -0500
Subject: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <G5ucnWG_1P5XsH2gXTWcoQ@comcast.com>

"Simon Burton" <simonb at webone.com.au> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943 at webone.com.au...
> Hello,
>
> I just read Guido's "python regret's" slide's from OSCON,
>
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=OSCON+%22python+reg
rets%22
> and one thing i can't work out is,
> he is saying we can do map() and filter() with
> list comprehensions (it's faster too)
> eg.
>
> amapedlist = [ somefunc(x) for x in alist ]
>
> But how would we do a filter with list comprehensions?

filteredlist = [item for item in alist if condition]

TJR




From nospam at bigfoot.com  Tue Nov  5 10:39:47 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:39:47 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb and threads
References: <aq69sk$8tb$1@norfair.nerim.net> <wzlm496ps2.fsf@cs.uu.nl> <aq6p4q$lmd$1@norfair.nerim.net> <wziszcvz6s.fsf@localhost.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <aq8npl$299o$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Great,

Many thanks Piet...
Looking for "pool python" or "pool mysql" didn't help.

--Gilles

"Piet van Oostrum" <piet at cs.uu.nl> a ?crit dans le message de news:
wziszcvz6s.fsf at localhost.cs.uu.nl...
> >>>>> "Gillou" <nospam at bigfoot.com> (G) writes:
>
> >> >>>>> "Gillou" <nospam at bigfoot.com> (G) writes:
> >>
> G> Hi,
> G> I plan to make SQL queries in different threads of an application using
> G> MySQLdb.
> G> Can I use the same Connection object in all threads (each thread having
> G> its
> G> own cursor) for the queries ? Or should I use a different Connection
> G> object
> G> for each thread ?
> >>
> >> The doc says:
> >>
>
> G> [SNIP]
>
> >> For threaded applications, try using a connection pool. This can be
done
> >> using the Pool module.
>
> G> Many thanks Piet for this enlightenment,
>
> G> Where did you find the Pool module you're writing of ?
>
> I just copied the doc.
>
> G> I didn't find it in the standard Python distro (2.1.3) nor with google.
>
> Google gives me:
> http://dustman.net/andy/python/Pool
> --
> Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
> URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
> Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl




From Paul_Rudin at scientia.com  Mon Nov 11 09:11:56 2002
From: Paul_Rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 14:11:56 +0000
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037014155.15486.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uel9sryab.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "hk" == holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:

 hk> Paul Rudin wrote:
 >>  I'm having a little play with python, just to try it out; and one
 >> thing that I find I miss from other languages is something like
 >> lisp's if:
 >> 
 >> (if x y z)
 >> 
 >> which returns y if x is true and z otherwise.
 >> 
 >> I realise that I can define a function that does this for me; but
 >> is there a succinct way of expressing this in the base language?

 hk> for me

 hk>   x and y or z

 hk> basically does what you want.  But you *need* to be sure that 'y'
 hk> is true.  some people don't like this 'abuse' but many use it on
 hk> a regular basis (without big problems i'd say).

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, there are circumstances where this looks ok; but I'm a bit uneasy
with this idiom. The main problems being:

- (as you say) you need to depend on the value of y;

- potentially both y and z are evaluated; and

- there's a degree of obfuscation here, the code is less
  comprehensible than something like: if x then y else z.

-- 
I am a jelly donut.  I am a jelly donut.


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 26 19:22:05 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:22:05 -0800
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE4102D.7D4291F4@alcyone.com>

Dave Brueck wrote:

> Ugh! Shame on any aspect of a language that burdens the developer this
> way. The fact that such strategies as the above have cropped up is,
> IMO,
> proof that the language is broken in that area. We don't say, "Is
> Tuesday
> today?" or "Is 5 your age?", either. :)

Yes, that convention to avoid mistaking = and == in an if (or other)
statement is extremely ugly and seems overkill.  I think the =/==
confusion in C and its descendent languages is being highly
overemphasized in this thread.  I came to Python from a C++, C and some
Java background, and I certainly don't miss assignment being a
full-fledged expression, and agree with avoiding the pitfalls.

The =/== mixup is indeed a very common beginner's error, particularly
when they come from a BASIC derivative language (where = means both
assignment and equality, depending on context).  In my experience,
however, among experienced programmers, repetition of this mistake is
extremely rare.  I literally cannot recall the last time that I made
this error, and have worked on sizeable teams and cannot recall finding
any colleagues' bugs stemming from the same mistake -- and this is not
from people who use the awful if (rvalue == lvalue) trick to prevent
them from getting it wrong in the first place.

I think the severity of the =/== confusion problem in C has been
severely overrepresented in this thread.  In my opinon, in the real
world, among competent software eengineers, it is a tiny issue.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Everyone wants to look good at his own funeral.
\__/ Louis Wu
    PyUID / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/uid/
 A module for generating "unique" IDs in Python.


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 14:28:25 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:28:25 -0700
Subject: power TypeErrors
References: <mailman.1036639269.847.python-list@python.org> <7h3ptthzlf0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqe8t4$ffa$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <7h31y5xyzgx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqeesp$j44$2@peabody.colorado.edu>

Michael Hudson wrote:

>  What specific problems involve complex input or
> output?

Well, lattice gauge theory, for one (my field). Not exactly mainstream, mind 
you :) But _everything_ in there is complex. FFTs are a far more common 
problem where complex numbers are normal. But as I said, even finding the 
roots of a simple polynomial or the eigenvalues of a non-symmetric (real) 
matrix can give you complex output in a heartbeat. And you can't really write 
many numerical algorithms correctly if they can't wander into the complex 
plane internally.

The real line is awful thin, and it's really easy to fall off of it :)

Cheers,

f.


From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov  9 09:44:53 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 14:44:53 GMT
Subject: How to spawn a program and assign its stdout to a string variable?
References: <pan.2002.11.09.12.59.56.239034@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Fb9z9.9744$Bs5.334288@news1.tin.it>

Christopher R. Culver wrote:

> I'm working on a pdf2ps frontend script that will use the *nix utility
> "file" to determine a file's type without blindly trying to work on it. I
> assume the best way to do this is to spawn "file", capture its stdout to a
> string variable, and then use regular expressions to search within the
> captured stdout for the file type desired (in this case PDF). However,

Doubtful assumption, but, OK, it may be one way.

> I've tried these:
> 
> capturedstdout = os.system(["file"]+foo)
> 
> capturedstdout = swapvp('P_NOWAIT', 'file', ['file']+foo)
> 
> but these don't work because the return value of file is assigned to the
> variable "capturedstdout", not the stdout. How do I spawn a program and
> have its stdout assigned to a string variable?

>>> foo = 'ch01.xml.pdf'
>>> import os
>>> capturedstdout = os.popen('file ' + foo).read()
>>> print capturedstdout
ch01.xml.pdf: PDF document, version 1.3

>>>


Alex



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Thu Nov 21 05:43:17 2002
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:43:17 +1000 (est)
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7?
In-Reply-To: <OrDC9.1494$Kw6.890938@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0211212021550.9788-100000@tenring.andymac.org>

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, dsavitsk wrote:

> as I say, the site i am testing is on a computer not 8 inches from the
> FreeBSD one (attached to the same kvm no less).  The files must traverse
> nearly 6 feet of cable, 3 other computers were able to download much more
> quickly, and the freebsd one has failed all day (even switching network
> cable and spots in the switch).
>
> further, for a 2 meg file on
>
> Python 2.2.1 (#1, Oct  5 2002, 11:19:44)
> [GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import os
> >>> os.system('/usr/local/bin/wget
> "http://192.168.0.4/index.asp?file=name" -O file.ext')
>
> takes less than 2 seconds
>
> while
> >>> f = open('file2.ext', 'w')
> >>> u = urllib.urlopen("http://192.168.0.4/index.asp?file=name")
> >>> f.write(u.read())
> >>> f.close()
>
> takes about 2 minutes
>
> so, it seems that using wget is the proper way to preceed, but i would
> rather a python solution.

I can't test this at the moment, but you should be aware that your python
approach is doing something quite different from wget in processing this
download - it is reading _the_whole_file_ into memory, and then writing it
out in one fell swoop, rather than reading & writing a block at a time
(which is how wget & fetch would be doing this).  The writing part will be
fast, but the building of the in-memory image of the file _may_ be
happening in such a way that the memory image is constantly being
increased in size to cope with incoming data.

Various platform realloc() library routines have radically different
performance behaviours in the face of such memory allocation strategies,
usually unfavourable.  While the FreeBSD memory allocation routines are
decent, Python has exposed unfavourable performance behavour on FreeBSD in
other situations.  FreeBSD is not alone in this - Python has managed to
provoke memory allocation issues on most platforms, which have
progressively been worked around as they've been identified.

Some memory allocation changes were made for 2.2.2 which did improve
performance on FreeBSD in certain scenarios, but I doubt your usage would
be affected.  Still, I would like to know if 2.2.2 helps if you are able
to test it (and I would recommend the upgrade from 2.2.1 in any case).

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From wks000 at t-online.de  Sun Nov 10 07:50:19 2002
From: wks000 at t-online.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:50:19 +0100
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net> <Di3z9.8445$Bs5.288545@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <72lssu89n13e0smobngvb95f8ggtlv65n9@4ax.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>:

>This is more or less the end of the line in terms of what
>os.popen can offer -- due to buffering and suchlike there's
>no practical way for python to drive BOTH standard input
>and standard-output of another external program.

Well, the following snippet, driving nslookup.exe on W2K works for me: 

import sys,os
print sys.version
popen2=os.popen2
i,o=popen2("nslookup","t")
def prnt(f):
    print "(---"
    c=None
    while c!=">":
        c=f.read(1)
        sys.stdout.write(c)
    print "---)"
prnt(o)
while(1):
    cmd=raw_input()
    if cmd=="stop":
        i.write("exit\n")
        break
    print "cmd:",cmd
    i.write(cmd+"\n")
    prnt(o)
print "feddich"


C:\e\littlepython>cmddriver.py
2.2.1 (#34, Apr 15 2002, 09:51:39) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)]
(---
Standardserver:  www-proxy.BN1.srv.t-online.de
Address:  212.185.249.50

>---)
www.python.org
cmd: www.python.org
(---
 Server:  www-proxy.BN1.srv.t-online.de
Address:  212.185.249.50

Name:    fang.python.org
Address:  194.109.137.226
Aliases:  www.python.org

>---)
stop
feddich





-- 
Wir danken f?r die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Wed Nov  6 03:22:19 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:22:19 +0100
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <aqajfv$qqr$1@news.netpower.no>

"phil (at) linux2000.com" <"phil (at) linux2000.com"> wrote in message
news:3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3 at reader.news.newnet.co.uk...
> Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> >
>
> The open source community seems to be shooting itself in the foot on
> this particular issue, as far as I can see.
>

Just for comparison, can you think of any two close-source packages that
have the same licence?  Most suppliers seem to change their EULAs, Terms and
Conditions, etc., faster than they change their software.

There are basically two categories of open source licences, as far as I can
see - gpl-type licences (you can use our source, but you have to apply the
same licence to the modified code) and bsd-type licences (you can use our
source for anything you want, but you have to acknowledge the copyright).  I
am a great believer in the spirit of a licence rather than the letter of the
licence, and as far as I can see, the Python licence is in the same spirit
as the BSD licence.  I don't know how that would stand up in court, however,
but hopefully it will never have to.





From goldbb2 at earthlink.net  Tue Nov  5 19:28:43 2002
From: goldbb2 at earthlink.net (Benjamin Goldberg)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:28:43 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net>

Frodo Morris wrote:
> 
> Daniel Pfeiffer wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Apache would essentially have a mod_parrot.  Maybe, if this can be
> > tested very hard, we'd even have a Parrot kernel module for all
> > Unices supporting that.  Then exec() could perform compiled scripts
> > right away, like machine code :-)
>
> I would have thought that a more platform-independent version of
> this would be, say, a parrotd, which sits on top of the kernel,
> intercepts calls to exec() bytecode and spawns the relevant processes.

What advantage would this have over putting a #! line in the bytecode?

Most existing *nix kernels (except some very old ones) will look at the
#!, parse out the path to an executable program, and the run it.

> I may be wrong.  This parrotd system would also help in projects like
> Beowulfs (although why you'd be using byte-compiled languages in
> parallel computing is beyond me), because you could use inetd or
> similar to spawn a parrot when data was received on a certain port.

I don't really see the point of having a parrotd, except if you want to
create something vaguely like PersistantPerl.

-- 
my $n = 2; print +(split //, 'e,4c3H r ktulrnsJ2tPaeh'
."\n1oa! er")[map $n = ($n * 24 + 30) % 31, (42) x 26]


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Mon Nov 11 14:33:42 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:33:42 GMT
Subject: Understanding some python internals
Message-ID: <3dd00611.20878343@news.t-online.de>

I'm trying to understand how the python debugger package works. To
that effect, I've written a kind of "strace for python", that should
tell me each instruction as it happens, in a tracefile.

The code basically does this:

- use sys.settrace() to attach a tracefunc to every statement executed
- try to analyze the arguments passed to the tracefunc

So far, so good. Preliminary results can be seen here:

http://p-nand-q.com/python/strace.zip

The test code I want to analyze is this:

------------------------
test = 60

def test(x):
    return x*2
    
i = 0
while i < 5:
    print test(i)
    i += 1
    
exec("test(42)")
------------------------

Nothing too deviant, right? Try to run strace.py over this, and look
into the result (STRACE.LOG). 

Ok, my questions:

(1) I want to disassemble the current step that the tracefunc is
called for - nothing else. dis.disassemble takes a code object, but
will disassemble the *whole* code object, not just some part. (Same,
if I pass it frame rather than code). How can I do that?

I would guess that it has something to do with the members
frame.f_code.co_code and co_lnotab - the "documentation" says the
latter is "encoded mapping of line numbers to bytecode indices", can
somebody enlighten me on that?

(2) I want to print the source for the current step that the tracefunc
is called for - nothing else. My first attempt (which is in the
current source) is to read the file from frame.f_code.co_filename and
read the line that is given in frame.f_lineno). This has two problems:

a) if the source spans more than one line, only the first line will be
shown
b) if the source is in an exec() statement, co_filename is "<string>".
(See also question (3))

Is there are a "canonic" way of getting the code about to be executed
inside a tracefunc?

I tried inspect.getsource(frame) - but that prints the source for the
whole code object, not the current frame. Bug or intended behaviour?

(3) If the code object is in an exec statement, co_filename is
"<string>" and as far as I can see the code executed cannot be read
from inside the tracefunc. Or can it?




From xx758 at cam.ac.uk  Thu Nov  7 04:57:04 2002
From: xx758 at cam.ac.uk (Xiao-Qin Xia)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:57:04 +0000
Subject: Placing Tkinter objects in a dictionary
References: <3dc9fa87$1_4@nopics.sjc>
Message-ID: <aqdddg$m13$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Adonis wrote:

> I have a loop creating Tkinter objects (an Entry text box) all with the
> same name and placing its instance in a dictionary: i.e:
> 
> for x in range(10):
>     myEntry = Entry(frame)
>     myEntry.grid(row=x, column=0)
> 
>     someDict['%s'%x] = myEntry
> 
> now I have another function which will modify myEntry:
> 
> def someFunc(x, data):
>     someDict[str(x)].config(text=data) # here is my error; the config does
> not work;
>                                        # no error is raised.
> 
> any help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Adonis

The problem is Entry does use a text config, you need a method to insert 
the data:

def someFunc(x, data):
        e = someDict[str(x)]
        e.delete(0, END)
        e.insert(0, data)

Now it will work.


Cheers,

Xiao-Qin Xia


From kowk at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 18 20:50:43 2002
From: kowk at earthlink.net (Kow K)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:50:43 -0800
Subject: classifier systems re-coded in Python?
Message-ID: <50933B53-FB61-11D6-AC9D-00050287C0A6@earthlink.net>

Hi Pythoneers,

I'm just wondering if anybody has re-coded David Goldberg's Pascal 
implementation of John Holland's (learning) classifier system in Python.

Any pointer will be appreciated.

Cheers,
Kow




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 14 19:35:30 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:35:30 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <4STA9.9987$744.345722@news1.tin.it> <jc58tugirbnbtn1i7e2kf7of4l3ltt665e@4ax.com> <mailman.1037315122.20415.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD44152.69795B9F@alcyone.com>

"James J. Besemer" wrote:

> I collect pocket reference guides, and FWIW, Python's is the largest!
> 
> Perl 5 (including libraries) is only 48 pages.
> 
> I have C/C++ pocket refs that work out to 8 pages for the language and
> 8
> pages for the libraries.

I think what's making the difference here is the quality/depth of the
reference guides, not the actual languages.  A "C/C++" reference that is
a total of 16 pages simply not comparable to a Python reference that is
124 pages.  C and C++ (two different languages, by the way) are not
about 8 times simpler than Python.  Far from it, in fact.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Punctuality is the virtue of the bored.
\__/ Evelyn Waugh
    WebVal / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/webval/
 URL scanner, maintainer, and validator in Python.


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov  8 06:00:23 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 05:00:23 -0600
Subject: stripping HTML comments in the face of programmer errors
Message-ID: <15819.39239.272250.828957@montanaro.dyndns.org>

HTML comments aren't supposed to be nested, nor are they supposed to enclose
unescaped HTML tags, but people routinely commit both sins anyway.  People
also forget to close HTML comments, but for the most part, browsers still
seem to display such pages more-or-less correctly.

I have an HTML comment stripping function which handles the nesting part
okay:

    def zapcomment(data):
        data = re.split("(<!--|-->)", data)
        nest = 0
        newdata = []
        for i in range(len(data)):
            if data[i] == "<!--":
                nest += 1
            elif data[i] == "-->":
                nest = max(0, nest-1)
            elif nest == 0:
                newdata.append(data[i])
        return "".join(newdata)

but I'm sort of at a loss how to handle the case of runaway comments, e.g.:

    <script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript">
    <!--
    <!-- Hide script from old browsers
    myPix1 = new Array("gp1/gp1-pic1.gif","gp1/gp1-pic2.gif","gp1/gp1-pic3.gif","gp1/gp1-pic4.gif")
    myPix2 = new Array("gp2/gp2-pic1.gif","gp2/gp2-pic2.gif","gp2/gp2-pic3.gif","gp2/gp2-pic4.gif")
    myPix3 = new Array("gp3/gp3-pic1.gif","gp3/gp3-pic2.gif","gp3/gp3-pic3.gif","gp3/gp3-pic4.gif")
    myPix4 = new Array("gp4/gp4-pic1.gif","gp4/gp4-pic2.gif","gp4/gp4-pic3.gif","gp4/gp4-pic4.gif")
    function choosePix() {
            if (document.images) {
                    randomNum = Math.floor((Math.random() * myPix1.length))
                    document.myPicture1.src = myPix1[randomNum]

                    randomNum = Math.floor((Math.random() * myPix2.length))
                    document.myPicture2.src = myPix2[randomNum]

                    randomNum = Math.floor((Math.random() * myPix3.length))
                    document.myPicture3.src = myPix3[randomNum]

                    randomNum = Math.floor((Math.random() * myPix4.length))
                    document.myPicture4.src = myPix4[randomNum]
            }
    }
    // End hiding script from old browsers -->
    </script>

Anybody out there got a bit of code which implements a useful heuristic for
that case?  Ideally, stripping comments from the above would yield

    <script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript">
    </script>

Thanks,

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From karthik_qmax at yahoo.co.in  Fri Nov 15 23:53:57 2002
From: karthik_qmax at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?kathik=20thyagarajan?=)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 04:53:57 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: My Python Editor "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE" does not refesh
Message-ID: <20021116045357.80686.qmail@web8203.mail.in.yahoo.com>


Hi Guys,

I am having the trouble of having to exit the editor every time I make some changes to my code in order to execute the code using the "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE"  editor. DOS work fine but the problem with DOS is that and other editors like gvim is that I am unable to debug my code with them. Is there any problem with theinstallation or is there any other patch to be added? Does any one know. Other wise I have to clos a bunch of files, open them, set break points, make changes, close them again and keep iterating the whole thing.

Eagerly awaiting replies.

Karthik

Catch all the cricket action. Download Yahoo! Score tracker
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Nov 28 19:56:23 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 19:56:23 -0500
Subject: How to install with -O?
References: <mailman.1038511660.30945.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as6dvn$6gt$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1038511660.30945.python-list at python.org>,
Michael Gilfix  <mgilfix at eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:
>
>  Hi all. I've been using __debug__ in my python programs with the
>hope to byte-compile my programs with -O on install and remove the
>__debug__ code. However, I haven't figured out quite how to do this
>with distutils, and some searching through the documentation didn't
>reveal anything. Has anyone solved this problem?

Unfortunately, there are only two ways to force optimized mode: running
"python -O" and setting PYTHONOPTIMIZE.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra


From stuart at bmsi.com  Fri Nov 15 01:43:42 2002
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 06:43:42 GMT
Subject: HTTPSConnection with proxy
Message-ID: <yI0B9.3693$0U1.427112@news2.east.cox.net>

I cannot figure out how to use a proxy with HTTPSConnection

I cannot use urllib because:

a) the proxy support in urllib doesn't seem to work for https: 
b) I need to post data with Content-Type: application/EDIStream,
	and urllib hardwires application/x-www-form-urlencoded

Does anyone know the basic protocol for https?  The proxy server logs it
as a "CONNECT" request - which makes sense because the client will be
doing the encoding.  How would one simulate a CONNECT request via telnet?
 I can translate that to python code.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 23 19:36:41 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:36:41 -0500
Subject: Iteration of strings
References: <DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489@news010.worldonline.dk> <faWdnQY6h6rRT0OgXTWcqw@comcast.com> <x0MD9.31653$HU.2395886@news010.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <n82cnSaUtYlxgn2gXTWc3Q@comcast.com>

"Bjarke Dahl Ebert" <bebert at tiscali.dk> wrote in message
news:x0MD9.31653$HU.2395886 at news010.worldonline.dk...
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
> news:faWdnQY6h6rRT0OgXTWcqw at comcast.com...
>
> > > Some function expects a list of strings,
> > Here is the root of your problem.  In a real sense, Python
functions
> > have no expectation as to type.
>
> Yes they do - the expectation is just not explicitly stated, and it
is often
> more "vague" than any simple formal type system could express.

I was trying to suggest the expection is in the mind of the writer
rather than the function itself, and that this is differenct, for
instance, from C where all inputs are more or less typed.

Terry J. Reedy




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Nov  6 16:55:05 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:55:05 +0000
Subject: newbie re question
References: <1osisu81483e4k3j905dun6diio6rt29ao@4ax.com> <sFfy9.2868$h%5.101793@newsb.telia.net> <3dc98c38$0$24471$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
Message-ID: <qr3jsus832ct8al8e107q2cagn5is30s28@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:40:20 +0100, "Noel Minet" <noel.minet at noos.fr>
wrote:

>It seems ':' and '@' are considered as a word breaks
>Also, it seems the OP wants to capture 'a.aa'
>
>a lookahead does it:
>
>>>> pattern = re.compile(r'(?:\s|^)([\w_][\w\._]*)(?=\s|$)')
>>>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa
>aa__a?jk xxx')
>['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'aa', '_aa', 'aa_aa', 'xxx']
>
>

Thanks! This does the job! Now let me see If I can understand how it
works...

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 23 19:30:34 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:30:34 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <VPecnd0fe8Ljg32gXTWcoQ@comcast.com>

"Alexander Schmolck" <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:yfsadk0c648.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk...
>> [Aside: the fact that for python dicts one iterates over keys
rather than
> values seems like a wart to me, most likely caused by the absence of
a set
> type (now in 2.3), and the consequent frequent abuse of dicts to
represent
> sets. The resultant unnecessary discrepancy between the interfaces
of mapping
> and sequence types is somewhat annoying.]

There was much discussion about which of dict.iterkeys(), iteritems(),
or itervalues() should be the default for 'in dict' both for 'if key
in dict' and 'for key in dict'.  Note that since 'in seq' means same
sequence in both contexts for other containers (and same underlying
code is used to get sequence) it was wanted to keep 'in dict' meaning
same also.  The consensus, considering use cases for both
constructions, was that keys are most ofter what is wanted.  Think 'is
word in dictionary' rather than 'is word,definition in dictionary'.
Normal use of phonebook is similar.

Terry J. Reedy




From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Sat Nov 16 01:51:03 2002
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:51:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: LCS algorithm
References: <3DCD1A12.4070809@nospam.net>
Message-ID: <slrnatbqmn.f8e.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <3DCD1A12.4070809 at nospam.net>, Drazen Gemic wrote:
>Is there an implementation of Largest Common Sequence algorithm
>in Python ? I am particulary interested in implementation that
>works for character strings.

Here is an implementation of Levenshtein distance (edit distance):

http://hetland.org/python/distance.py

The two are very similar.

>
>                                        DG

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland        Practical Python          The Anygui Project
http://hetland.org        http://ppython.com        http://anygui.org


From joconnor at cybermesa.com  Fri Nov  8 03:19:59 2002
From: joconnor at cybermesa.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:19:59 +0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <20021108.121940.201305624.9010@cybermesa.com> <uso6sqgn3fmcb0@corp.supernews.com> <20021108.135935.824272813.9010@cybermesa.com> <usoc5fda35flc6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20021108.151956.846811127.9010@cybermesa.com>

In article <usoc5fda35flc6 at corp.supernews.com>, "Cameron Laird"
<claird at lairds.com> wrote:

> In article <20021108.135935.824272813.9010 at cybermesa.com>, Jay O'Connor
> <joconnor at cybermesa.com> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
>>No, I'm making the point that TCL is syntactically weaker at expressing
>>complex structures and this is a qualitative difference between the two
>>languages
>>
>>Expanding beyond just getting a single value from a multidimensional
>>list is what happens when you start throwing in lrange for slicing and
>>other ways of unwrapping the structure.  TCL's approach of using
>>'functionName $var1 var2' leads quite easily and naturally to such
>>'monstrosities' as a natural consequence of the stucture of the
>>language.   When you start throwing in heterogenous structures,
>>especially dealing with nested arrays (dictionaries) , etc..the
>>syntactical shortcut doesn't scale very well to dealing with complex
>>data.  (incidentally, your example does not do the same thing.
>>
>>set l1 "1 2 3"
>>set l2 "4 5 6"
>>set l3 [list $l1 $l2]
>>set x [lindex [lindex $l3 1] 1]
>>puts $x
>>
>>results in '5'
>>
>>using 'set x(1,1)
>>results in an error
> Yes and no.  Tcl is awful for structuring data complexly in analogy to
> C.  

Well actually, TCL is not bad in handling date in comparison to C (and I
made that point to my co-workers)

However, my comparison was to Python, and in that respect TCL is
substandard to both Python(and a whole host of other languages
invented since C)

> It's at least medi- ocre, though, at handling complex data in its
> own idioms.

Well, the original analogy was that different approaches to syntax in a
language do lead to qualitative differences in the usages of those
languages

> I'm
> saying that all the well-crafted systems for managing matrices in Tcl do
> NOT just make them as nested lists.

Matrices are a simple data structure.  Business data tends to be more
complicated.  My example was extremely simplistic in comparison the the
heterogenous nested data that was trying to be handled using similar
techniques.

> One possibility for a
> nicely-engineered Tcl matrix handler is to refer to the "upper left"
> element as "x(1,1)".  

Which fails when you start trying to put arrays in it.

You're thinking of "[lindex[lindex[.. " as indicating a matrix. I'm
thinking in terms of a list of records where each record contains both
simple data and complex data.  As long as you have multi-dimensional data
of simple form, it's easy.  When the data is a heterogenous mix of
values, lists, lists of lists, and arrays, the  messines of the code gets
quite bad

> I'm sorry that your co-workers imposed such an unaesthetic misuse of Tcl as you describe on you.

Unfortuately I have yet to see that the usage would be considered
'unaesthetic misuse' simply because I have yet to see a working
alternative that is an simpler

> <URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/2995 > has more on the subject.

Yes, I notice non of the proposals can scale easily beyond simplistic
usage in either size of problem space or complexity of problem.

-- 
Jay O'Connor
joconnor at cybermesa.com
http://www.r4h.org/r4hsoftware


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov  9 17:00:17 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 14:00:17 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
Message-ID: <3DCD8571.6CACEA04@alcyone.com>

Johannes Gr?dem wrote:

> * Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu>:
> 
> > Python represents logical nesting the same way human read it, by
> > indentation.  Lisp repesents all nesting with parentheses, [...]
> 
> When you program in Lisp, you (your editor) indents blocks for you,
> which makes it easy to see block structure.  Noone actually manually
> count parentheses.  (All sane editors support paren-matching.)

Right.  Note that this objection to Lisp is analogous to the objection
that whitespace-insensitive language users (C, C++, Java, Perl, etc.)
often use to discount Python before they've been exposed to it.  "If
it's whitespace sensitive," they say, "I'll be stuck fighting with
indentation to get the results I want."

I'm an emacs user, so the first thing I did when I started fiddling
around with Python is installed python-mode.  Because of that, I have
never once counted spaces, never once had space/tab problems, never once
had a problem indenting/unintending a region, and whenever I've
forgotten the odd colon, good ol' python-mode has made it very clear to
me what the problem was.

The same goes for Lisp (and all its variants, like Scheme).  You might
have to count parentheses if you had to physically write it down with
pencil and paper, but in the real world you'll be using an editor, and
the editor will help you match parentheses and do the gruntwork for you.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I'm paranoid.  But am I paranoid enough?
\__/ Louis Wu
    Official Omega page / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/omega/
 The official distribution page for the popular Roguelike, Omega.


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 13 00:23:00 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 05:23:00 GMT
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com>
Message-ID: <aqsnjk$otq$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:04:31 GMT, "Alexander Sendzimir" <lists at battleface.com> wrote:

>
>
>How does one match multiple regexs to a single line as in a compiler in
>Python?  I'm used to doing the following in Perl, for example:
>
>$line = <>;
>
>if ( $line ~= /regex1/ )
>{...}
>elsif ( $line ~= /regex2/ )
>{...}
>elsif (...)
>{ etc... }
>
>To do this in Python and be able to get at the match if a regex succeeds
>means I have to break up the if's because I haven't been able to get
>Python to make an assignment in an if-statement. In other words,
>
>if ( myMatch = re1.match( line ) ) :
>    ...
>elif ( myMatch = re2.match( line ) ) :
>    ...
>
>doesn't work for me. Perhaps I've missed something simple.
>
Some might consider this cheating, but you could make a class instance
that you can use to grab a value in an expression for later use. E.g.,

 >>> import re
 >>> re1 = re.compile(r'one\s+(.*)')
 >>> re2 = re.compile(r'two\s+(.*)')
 >>> line = 'two This is message two.'

 >>> class V:
 ...     def __init__(self, v=None): self.v = v
 ...     def __call__(self, *v):
 ...         if v: self.v = v[0]
 ...         return self.v
 ...
 >>> v=V()


 >>> if v(re1.match(line)):
 ...     print v().group(1)
 ... elif v(re2.match(line)): 
 ...     print 'Use it differently:', v().group(1)
 ...
 Use it differently: This is message two.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Nov  4 12:09:20 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 18:09:20 +0100
Subject: Encoding of String
References: <aq67lr$6fj$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m3y989l0sf.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Thomas Guettler <zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de> writes:

> Is there a way to get the encoding of a string?

No. The absence of a reliable method to detect the encoding of some
arbitrary sequence of bytes is the very reason to introduce explicit
declarations of encodings into various protocols and format
(e.g. MIME, XML, etc). In the end, this problem is also one of the
reasons for Unicode to exist, and the Unicode type in Python as a
separate data type: If you have a Python Unicode object, you know how
to interpret the elements of the sequence. For an arbitrary string,
you don't.

That said, there are various heuristics you can apply; search this
group for earlier discussions of the matter.

Regards,
Martin



From dsiroky at email.cz  Sun Nov  3 17:40:14 2002
From: dsiroky at email.cz (David Siroky)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 23:40:14 +0100
Subject: Numerical & FFT
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.03.22.40.14.914044@email.cz>

Hi!

Functions "fft" and "real_fft" returns some array. What those numbers
exactly mean? Especially the first one (DC or what)?

Thank you!

David


From amk at amk.ca  Wed Nov 13 17:44:57 2002
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:44:57 -0500
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
In-Reply-To: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEKEIKGAAA.whisper@oz.net>; from whisper@oz.net on Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 02:03:01PM -0800
References: <_qSdnaGis_mXXE-gXTWcoQ@speakeasy.net> <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEKEIKGAAA.whisper@oz.net>
Message-ID: <20021113174457.A5733@nyman.amk.ca>

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 02:03:01PM -0800, David LeBlanc wrote:
>How could it not be relevent? If more people know xml then know \tex, then
>the number of random people who might be interested in writing python doc is
>apt to be greater if python doc is in xml. It seems to me (I could be wrong)

Random people are *not* interested in writing documentation.  

People are not atoms bouncing around until they hit a project and
stick.  No one says, "Hm... I know LaTeX, so I'll make a list of all
projects that use LaTeX and pick one at random to help."  Instead,
they find themselves using one particular thing -- Python, Apache,
whatever -- and find themselves contributing to it.  That's highly
non-random, and hard to steer.

Counting on random people from around the 'net to assemble a document
or program or site usually has the same result: a pile of junk.
(Insert snide comment about Slashdot here.)  Every successful project
has a small core of committed developers or editors, who accept and
process contributions from everyone; it's important to keep this core
happy and not overloaded, because without them the whole process
collapses.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
SIR ANDREW: But I am a great eater of beef and I believe that does harm to my
wit.
      -- _Twelfth Night_, I, iii




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Nov 20 20:43:41 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:43:41 +1100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A76A@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Pascal Costanza [mailto:costanza at web.de]
> 
> Delaney, Timothy wrote:
> >>From: Pascal Costanza [mailto:costanza at web.de]
> >>
> >>Meiner Meinung nach h?ngt das im wesentlichen immer davon 
> ab, welche 
> >>Sprache man zuerst gelernt hat, oder welche man am 
> h?ufigsten benutzt.
> >>
> >>If you don't understand this, would you consider German to be less 
> >>readable than English? (Run that sentence through 
> >>http://babelfish.altavista.com to get my point. ;)
> > 
> > 
> > Having been involved in these debates before, I now try to 
> avoid them
> > (except when trying to get Python used on a project ;)
> > 
> > However, you measure readability by how readable something 
> is at comparable
> > skill levels. So if I were fluent in both German and 
> English (I'm not),
> > *and* you had provided the English version (not necessarily a direct
> > translation, but the equivalent meaning) then I could make 
> a judgement. If I
> > had no fluency in either, I could not make a meaningful judgement.
> 
> No, I am saying that many statements about the readability of 
> programming languages are made from a perspective of being 
> fluent in one 
> but not in the other language. I don't think that there are any 
> programming languages that are per se more readable than 
> others. Heck, 
> this isn't even true for natural languages. That's the whole 
> point of my 
> argument. I could have made this example even more extreme by 
> giving it 
> in Japanese, or sign language, or Braille language.

You asked how to define readability, and then used an example which is
completely non-understandable to someone who is not at least passingly
fluent in German.

This is a strawman argument. Readability can only be determined by someone
who has equivalent skill in both domains. Of course people who do not have
such qualifications make statements about the readability of one or the
other.

A person with normal eyesight, who is equally skilled in both reading
English and Braille, would be able to judge the readability of a book
written (in English) in both a "normal" typeface and Braille (and the result
may well be "equal"). A blind person would be unable to make such a
judgement, because they are unable to read the non-Braille version.

Would you take issue with a blind person saying that a non-Braille book was
completely unreadable? I personally would make the point that it may be
unreadable for them, but it's perfectly readable for me.

Background obviously makes some things more readable than others. Someone
whose first language is alphabetic is going to find Japanese, Thai, etc much
less readable than their native language even if they are completely fluent
in both.

> So which of the two following expressions do you find more readable. 
> According to your statement it should be the first because it's closer 
> to English.
> 
> 1) ADD A TO B GIVING C
> 2) c = a + b

Not at all - for three reasons.

1. I have had a *strong* background in languages where #2 has meaning.

2. Whilst it does not mean the same thing as in mathematics, it is related
to the mathematical meaning, and uses mathematical symbols that I am used
to. In particular, it is similar to the form "if we assume that c equals a
plus b" which is commonly used in proofs.

3. I would *never* use the construct you give as #1 - if I were to say
anything, it would be "set c equal to a plus b".

What I can state, unequivocably, is that as a new python user (some time ago
now ;) I was able to understand and modify existing python code very easily.
Part of this is due to a background in (primarily) procedural languages, but
most of it was because the syntax is so clear and (in general) module and
function names are well-chosen.

As an expert I am able to take large amounts of existing code and in a
relatively short period of time understand most of what it does.

I can also state that I have *never* been able to grasp the intention of
anything beyond the most trivial Lisp code without studying it in depth. I
have had similar experiences with other languages (C, SQL, Prolog, Perl are
four examples).

Tim Delaney



From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Tue Nov 26 05:31:35 2002
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:31:35 +0100
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <20021126043142.4323.25612.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1038295415.22435.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3de3507e$0$71601$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

"Terry Hancock" <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
>(do I recall correctly that you couldn't pass literals to functions
> in Pascal?  I remember being very annoyed by that, coming from 
> Fortran).

You must be thinking of passing literals by reference.  Sure you can
pass literals to functions, you just can't do this:

program Indiana_House_of_Representatives;
   procedure Bill246(var pi: real);
   begin
        pi := 3.2;
   end;
begin
   Bill246(3.1415926535897931);
end;

Fortran-doesn't-have-these-silly-limitations-ly y'rs, Anders




From mike at skew.org  Wed Nov  6 07:52:37 2002
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 05:52:37 -0700
Subject: regex puzzle
Message-ID: <3dc91095$1_1@omega.dimensional.com>

I need an example of a regular expression that:

- matches an empty string
- matches a non-empty string
- does NOT match a string consisting of only a linefeed

So, this test should produce [1, 1, 0]...

import re
pat = '^(.+)?$' # FIXME
[(re.search(pat, s) is not None) for s in ['', 'foo', '\n']]

Any suggestions? :)

Thanks





From anders at gamebox.net  Sat Nov  9 05:40:51 2002
From: anders at gamebox.net (A Nilsson)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 11:40:51 +0100
Subject: zip/unzip pictures doesn't work
Message-ID: <3DCCE633.5040301@gamebox.net>

I've been messing around with the zipfile module and discovered 
something strange.
When I zip/unzip ordinary text files there's no problem but when i use 
pictures (JPG and GIF) they get corrupted. I believe it is during the 
unzip operation they get messed up.
I've zipped with python, unzipped with python -> doesn't work.
Zipped with Winzip, unzipped with python -> doesn't work.
Same as above but unzipped with Winzip -> OK.

Is there something special you have to consider when unzipping a picture?

/Ando N
mailto:anders at gamebox.net



From graik at web.de  Thu Nov  7 13:41:00 2002
From: graik at web.de (Raik Gruenberg)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:41:00 +0100
Subject: segmentation fault when unpickling an object in another Python
 instance
References: <3DC96AAD.9090503@web.de> <eAWdnTH219An7FSgXTWcqA@comcast.com> <3DC99AF6.2030906@web.de> <7h3lm45zktm.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3DCA5CB1.6060004@web.de> <j4wunpzfsg.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3DCAB3BC.6000805@web.de>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Raik Gruenberg <graik at web.de> writes:
> 
> 
>>You are right, sort of. The problem is narrowed down: It, basically,
>>seems impossible to unpickle a Numeric array of dictionaries (objects
>>in general?) in another interpreter instance. I, nevertheless,
>>submitted the bug report to the (more active) Python not the Numpy
>>project. You shouldn't get a segfault, after all...
> 
> 
> However, we can nothing do about that. If Numeric decides to crash,
> inside its own code, or return garbage data to Python, there is
> nothing that the rest of the Python interpreter can do to save itself.

OK, I didn't know that the pickling is completely delegated to the array 
object. I filed the same bug to the Numeric group and added your remark 
from the python bug list.

Thanks for looking into this!
Greetings
Raik

> The guarantee of no segfaults becomes void if there are misbehaving
> extension modules.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> 




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 11 15:51:25 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:51:25 -0700
Subject: Is python a good choice for this task?
References: <pan.2002.11.11.20.29.19.704887.2239@spongebob.corporate.com>
Message-ID: <aqp58f$8pm$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Ron Lau wrote:

> My question is, What language is best suited for this? Perl, Python, or
> shell scripts?

Well, from each of the groups you posted to you'll get a different answer. But 
of course, two of them will be wrong. You should use python :)

Kidding aside, such a simple task can be done in any of those without any 
effort. I'd still suggest python because it's a better language than the 
others for a number of things (yes, I've used all three extensively). 
Especially if you have a scientific computing background: if you poke around 
the web a bit, you'll find that python is becoming very popular in scientific 
computing circles, and for good reason. See http://scipy.org/ or  
http://mayavi.sourceforge.net/ for useful things in this direction.

The task you described will hardly illustrate the differences between these 
languages. But when you decide you want to control your fortran CFD code 
through a high-level language, load NetCDF or HDF5 data files, visualize them 
with VTK, generate webpages out of the plot results, python will really begin 
to shine. I recommend you read: 
http://www.python.org/workshops/1997-10/proceedings/beazley.html before 
making this decision. It's written from the viewpoint of a scientific 
computing person, and while a bit old, it remains almost 100% true today. The 
parts that have changed is simply that many of the tasks described in that 
article are _far_ easier to do today than they were then.

Welcome!

f.

ps. Other useful links for python and scientific computing:
http://www.pfdubois.com/numpy/
http://starship.python.net/crew/hinsen/
http://w3.pppl.gov/~hammett/comp/python/python.html



From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 28 05:06:35 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:06:35 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <20021128000512.T11257@prim.han.de> <mailman.1038439190.14392.python-list@python.org> <r0qauuc1uoa8fn2l7beic8tjno735qe9up@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h3n0nuovvh.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> writes:

> I still disagree with the decision to not have a defgenerator clause
> (or equivalent) however. BDFL pronuncements in the PEP notwithstanding.

Live with it.

> For one thing, had yield not been meant to imply generator in the
> context of the function in which it is used, yield could have been
> executed in the body of a function which perculated that being
> yielded to the first appropriate defgenerator in the invocation
> stack, somewhat like a limited kind of continuation. To wit:
> 
> defgenerator g ():
> 
> 	f()
> 
> def f():
> 
> 	while 1:
> 
> 		yield None
> 
> x = g()
> 
> while x.next():
> 
> 	something()
> 
> Ddon't know about actual _implementation_ mind you, but it struck
> me that it would be quite useful if "yield" actually raised something
> that was next()able. x = g() would therefore be syntactic sugar for
> "except Continuable, c:"

You'd have to know at compile time whether g() referred to a generator
of not, wouldn't you?  That ain't gonna work.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Reading Slashdot can [...] often be worse than useless, especially
  to young and budding programmers: it can give you exactly the wrong
  idea about the technical issues it raises.
 -- http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/klee/misc/slashdot.html#reasons


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Nov  5 08:59:37 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:59:37 +0100
Subject: bug report w\o registering
References: <mailman.1036471806.10073.python-list@python.org> <aq8cmh$gcq$1@news.hccnet.nl> <JFPx9.2222$DQ5.1935@news.get2net.dk>
Message-ID: <aq8j69$lt9$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:26:01 +0100, J?rgen Cederberg
<jorgencederberg at hotmail.com> wrote:

>Please see section 6.8 in the Library reference ( http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-popen2.html ), it clearly states how popen2.popen2 should be called. Example
>
>>>> import os, popen2
>>>> infile, outfile = os.popen2("dir", "b", -1)
>>>> outfile, infile = popen2.popen2("dir", -1, "b")
>>>>

Thanks!

Anton.




From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Fri Nov 15 03:31:12 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:31:12 +0100
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list@python.org> <c8476101.0211140642.29540b96@posting.google.com> <3DD3C06D.61AAB36D@engcorp.com> <c8476101.0211142004.7f97751b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ar2bas$ck3$1@news.netpower.no>

"Arivazhagan" <arivu at qmaxtest.com> wrote in message
news:c8476101.0211142004.7f97751b at posting.google.com...
> Hi
> We are extending python to develop a Board Description language for
> ATE. say in our project there are 2 modules named a.py( provided by us
> ) and b.py.(the end user programs.)
>
> In a.py
> -------
>
> import sys
>
>
> class Good :
>     def __init__(self, name ) :
>         self.__name = name
>
>
> def createGood( *names ) :
>     for name in names :
>        thisGood = Good( name )
>
> #The following is done so that the objects created here can be
> accessed
> #from b.py without using the module name.
> #We just want to avoid this.
>        sys.modules['__main__'].__dict__[name] = thisGood
>
>
> In b.py
> -------
> from a import *
>
> createGood( 'A', 'B', 'C' )
>
> #We want to access like this without that additional codes.
> print A
> print B
> print C
>
> regards
> b.arivazhagan
>
>

As far as I can see (and hopefully a more experianced Python programmer will
correct me if I'm wrong), you are definitely going about this the wrong way.
You do not want to create globals in this manner - if writing "print x.A,
x.B, x.C" is going to be a problem, then you are going to have to go back
and think about what you are really trying to do.  Sure, it would be
possible to mess around with globals() and get the effect you want somehow,
but it really would be messing around.  It would also be incredibly
dangerous - think what would happen with " createGood('createGood', 'a',
'print') ".

I think you would be much better off having createGood make a list or a
dictionary of the Good objects and returning that.






From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov 10 03:12:12 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:12:12 GMT
Subject: indexed looping, functional replacement?
References: <3fe406f0.0211091037.2795e538@posting.google.com> <9Xcz9.15450$XO.672555@news2.tin.it> <aql172$jmn$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <wxoz9.11431$Bs5.416687@news1.tin.it>

Bengt Richter wrote:
   ...
>>In Python 2.2, you can try various inferior alternatives, e.g.:
>>
>>for f, i in zip(fn, range(len(fn))):
>>    f(str(i))
>>
> 
> Is there something I'm missing, or did the cat distract you ;-)
> 
>  >>> for f, s in zip(fl, sl):
>  ...     f(s)
>  ...
>  f1: bbb
>  f2: sdf
>  f3: sdw
> 
> (fl and sl being alternate names for fn and str as used)

Did the OP use str to mean something different than Python's normal builtin 
str?  If so, then it took a very moderate amount of distraction (which my 
cat does freely supply most of the time) to make me believe that str meant 
what it most always means -- a constructor for plain strings.

Good occasion then to reiterate the usual advice to people who use the names 
of Python's types (or other builtins, I guess, but for some reason it 
always seems to be types) for different purposes: don't.  By naming your 
variables &c with such names as int, float, str, file, list, dict, tuple, 
..., you're just causing confusion -- and if you don't fall prey to that 
confusion yourselves, you may still trip up others who are trying to help 
(or otherwise to read your code).


Alex



From logistix at zworg.com  Thu Nov 14 22:29:34 2002
From: logistix at zworg.com (logistix)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 19:29:34 -0800
Subject: parsing python code
References: <653cf871.0211141129.681e5dd7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bdb5b58f.0211141929.3dd13096@posting.google.com>

abidnego25 at yahoo.com (les) wrote in message news:<653cf871.0211141129.681e5dd7 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
> i would like to find out the function call tree of a python
> code. i.e.
> say i have a code like this:
> def fun111():
>    ..
> def fun11():
>    fun111()
>   
> def fun1():
>    fun11()
>    fun12()
> 
> if __name__ =='__main__':
>     fun1()
> then i would like to build a dictionary like this
> 
> d ={ 'root': '__name__',
>       '__name__': ['fun1']
>       'fun1': [ 'fun11','fun12'],
>       'fun11': [ 'fun111']
>    }
> 
> it is easy to parse out function names from the code,
> but not so easy to jump around to figure the tree structure.
> is there a module which exports some function when
> given a functionname returns all the functions it calls?
> (only those functions that are in the source code)
> 
> so far i have something like this
> that removes the function names
> but before i try the brute force way,i wanted to ask if there is already 
> a module that does what i want
> 
> ######################################
> from sys import argv,exit,stdin
> 
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> 	try:
> 		codefile = argv[1]
> 	except IndexError:
> 		print 'USAGE %s <file>' % argv[0]
> 	        exit(-1)
>         #pull out function names
> 	fp = open(codefile)
> 	fun_names=[]
> 	for x in fp:
> 		if x[0:3]=='def':
> 			fun_names.append( x.split()[1].split('(')[0])
> 	print fun_names
> 	fp.close()
> 	# go thought the file again and build nested list
> 	nested={}
> 	fp = open(codefile)
> 	
>         ################ I NEED HELP HERE
> 	
> 	fp.close()
> 
> thanks

The parser module builds Abstract Syntax Trees from text. 
Unfortunately, you'll still need to figure out how to climb through
the trees.  Tokenize module will give you one token at a time if you
want to build your own tree.  Again, it's not automagical, but you can
do alot of stuff.

compiler module might also be of interest, but I've never used it. 
And it seems pychecker just looks at the generated bytecode to analyze
code.

So it looks like there are alot of options, all of which will require
some work to get to where you're at.


From oracle_vs_ms at yahoo.dk  Wed Nov  6 12:11:04 2002
From: oracle_vs_ms at yahoo.dk (Peter Lorenzen)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 09:11:04 -0800
Subject: Subclassing the min() build-in function?
Message-ID: <18eef4ae.0211060911.2c0a7731@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am using Jython to calculate a string like this:  "2+3+min(1,2,3)"
from my Java pro-gram. This works beautifully. But my problem is that
if a user wants to calculate min(1) Python considers this an error. I
want it to return 1. If I could figure out how to subclass the min
function, so when it was called with one parameter I just returned
this parame-ter, and otherwise returned the super min function. It
looks like this should be possible, but I am new to Python, so I don't
understand the subclass examples I have found.

Hope somebody can help me.
Regards,
Peter Lorenzen


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 26 20:15:35 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:15:35 -0800
Subject: variable name and type confusion...
References: <arufnn$nt8$1@newsreader.mailgate.org> <m14vra.4f4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <nb61sa.3o3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 25 November 
2002 10:23 pm:

> 
>         Also, you need to define graphs as global to get your results
>         out of
> the routine.
>
        Correction -- since it is a list and you are using .append, you don't 
need to declare it global; but it shouldn't hurt, and may be safer 
should the routine undergo modifications in the future <G>


-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 10 01:17:44 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 06:17:44 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net> <aqilvp$3l1$0@216.39.172.122> <3dcd6aee.7793165@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <aqktm8$7ug$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:15:31 GMT, engsol at teleport.com wrote:

>On 9 Nov 2002 09:54:01 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:48:35 GMT, engsol at teleport.com wrote:
>>
>>>I've read the books, tried some code, and I still just don't get it.
>>>
><snip>
>
>>Well, it depends on what kind of coupling you need between your python stuff and the c stuff.
>>Some variant of the above may do it, or not ;-) Need more definite requirement statement.
>
>Thanks for the reply.
>
>One example of the legacy requirement is: we have a custom plug-in card which needs to be
PCI? All done via IO ports or has DMA? Uses interrupts? Time-critical parts?

>loaded with data, then triggered to output the data stream to the system under test. The
>driver for the card works well, and it'd be nice to not have to rewrite it. The source can
How do you use "the driver" now? Are you saying "driver" just in the loose sense of any software
that lets you use some hardware in some way? Or do you really mean "driver" as in developed using
DDK or equivalent and put in C:\WINNT\system32\drivers\whizzomatcard.sys? Or a privileged app?

>be recompiled as a DLL(?)  module...I think.  Or at the least as a library header
Why do you think you want to do that? (I'm not suggesting it's a bad idea, I'm just wondering
what leads you to think you may need to do that). How do you currently operate, and how do
you hope to operate, at the user interface level?

>file..again..I think.
>
It's still hard (for me anyway) to tell what your situation.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 13 18:35:32 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:35:32 +1300
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3DD2E1C4.9010100@something.invalid>

Carl Banks wrote:

> Martin Maney wrote:
> 
> A new syntax would be the best solution, IMHO.  For example, the
> suppose statement:
> 
>     suppose:
>         do_A()
>     if test_based_on_A():
>         take_action_A()
>     elsuppose:
>         do_B()
>     if test_based_on_B():
>         take_action_B()


Some time ago I proposed a loop-and-a-half syntax that went

    while:
       do_A()
    gives test_based_on_A():
       ...

There could be a similar variant for the if-statement:

    if:
       do_A()
    gives test_based_on_A():
       take_action_A()
    elif:
       do_B()
    gives test_based_on_B():
       take_action_B()


-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Nov 12 09:12:09 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:12:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <bdb5b58f.0211111438.640885d2@posting.google.com> <aqpc4j$cl5$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <6q7kfjau4f.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <Xns92C47A3ACD484duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <aqqt9t$vu2$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <Xns92C48F9C8B05Eduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in news:aqqt9t$vu2$0 at 216.39.172.122:

>>  python -c "a=b=1;exec'while+1:print+a;a,b=b,a+b'"
<snip>
> 
> I didn't know exec would parse semicolons that way (I hardly ever use
> it). But is that new with 2.2? Does that mean it effectively assumes a
> semicolon is the same as a newline and indent to the same level as the
> previous statement, until it finds an actual newline?

No, it simply means that:
   while+1:print+a;a,b=b,a+b
is a legal line, with or without exec.

The while has to be the first statement on the line thoug, which is which 
you need the exec here (or tricks updating vars()).

How about this variant? No sneaky updating vars(), no exec:

  while 1: g=vars().get;a,b=g('a',1),g('b',1);print a;a,b=b,a+b


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From skip at peterskipworth.com  Mon Nov 25 22:22:22 2002
From: skip at peterskipworth.com (Peter Skipworth)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:22:22 +1100
Subject: Reading MS Excel Files ?
Message-ID: <3de2e939$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>

Hi,

I've recently started developing in Python, after quite a few years on Perl.
Quite a few of the scripts I develop need to be able to parse a Microsoft
Excel spreadsheet - with Perl, this was quite simple, using a module called
Spreadsheet::ParseExcel. Does anything similar exist for Python ?

Note that I'm working on a Linux platform and thus need a non-Win32-centric
solution.

Thanks!

P




From costanza at web.de  Mon Nov 25 17:28:44 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:28:44 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>   <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arrijv$kap$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <1038199757.350382@yasure> <tyf4ra5zrli.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <artpln$cbe$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <aru86p$9q5$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

maney at pobox.com wrote:
> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> 
>>When you call a subroutine, you are calling a specific piece of
>>code. The caller decides what will be executed. When you pass a
>>message, the decision as to which exact code should be executed is
>>made elsewhere (some form of dispatch).
>>
>>But it looks as if my understanding of message passing is different
>>from Pascal's.
> 
> 
> Maybe, but probably less so than you imagine.  You're desribing it from
> the relatively concrete, implementation side; Pascal has preferred the
> fuzzy, metaphorical language that was introduced, IMO, in an effort
> either to make a useful but trivial formalism sound like it was
> something wonderful, or to hilight the important new ways of thinking
> about and structuring programs that the formalism (ie., language
> support) made much more convenient.  This is Monday, so today I'll say
> it was the former, handwaving; on Tuesdays I prefer the metaphor as
> pedagogical device.  And so it goes through the week...

Do I sense some irony here? ;)


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From costanza at web.de  Sun Nov 24 20:13:11 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:13:11 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <arrh93$hkm$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <yfshee6bjwd.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <arrtf6$b3j$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> writes:
> 
> 
>>[...]
>>
>>
>>>python: CL: x = list[index] (elt arrayOrList index)
>>
>>> x = hash[key]                     (gethash key  hash) ;; *why* this arg-order?
>>> x = myType[indexOrKey]            ; no generalized item access
>>>                                                                                   
>>
>>[etc.]
>>
>>Unified access is always a bit problematic. You should not access a list 
>>  (in Common Lisp) by index because the list must always be traversed up 
>>to the index on each access. (As far as I understand, what Python calls 
> 
> 
> Of course you usually don't but then I can't see why this is an argument
> against unified access (I don't want to abolish car and cdr and the writing of
> nice recursive functions that manipulate lists with them).

My guess is that the CL designers wanted us to make conscious decisions 
in this regard, so they opted for "non-unified" access by default. But I 
admit that I am not sure about what's the best option here and I see 
that you have some points.

> Also often you just want to iterate over all the items in some container and I
> can't really see how not having a good mechanism to this can be a good
> thing. Why should I always need to tell LOOP that I want to iterate over a
> vector and not a list?
> 
>   (loop for i in list) 
> 
> as opposed to 
> 
>   (loop for i across vector)
> 
> why not just:
> 
>   (loop for i in container)
> 

Well, you can always do the following.

(map nil (lambda (i) (...)) container)

And if you want to have a nicer syntax:

(defmacro dosequence ((element container) &body body)
   `(map nil (lambda (,element) , at body) ,container))

Now you can do both.

(dosequence (i '(1 2 3))
   (print i))

(dosequence (i #(1 2 3))
   (print i))


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 25 04:03:16 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:03:16 GMT
Subject: index of items in a List in sorted order
References: <75e086cd.0211241841.72e35ecf@posting.google.com> <ars4u8$986$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <oHlE9.51295$744.1872444@news1.tin.it>

Bengt Richter wrote:
   ...
>  >>> def ind_of_sorted2(L):
>  ...     items = zip(L,range(len(L)))
>  ...     items.sort()
>  ...     return zip(*items)
>  ...
>  >>> ind_of_sorted2(list('rgafrj'))
>  [('a', 'f', 'g', 'j', 'r', 'r'), (2, 3, 1, 5, 0, 4)]
> 
> Of course, it doesn't eliminate the duplicates, but now there's
> probably some time left to do that ;-)

If you want to keep the LAST index to any "duplicate" life's easy:

>>> def ind_of_sorted3(L):
...   items = dict(zip(L, range(len(L)))).items()
...   items.sort()
...   return zip(*items)
...
>>> ind_of_sorted3('rgafrj')
[('a', 'f', 'g', 'j', 'r'), (2, 3, 1, 5, 4)]
>>>

keeping the FIRST index instead ain't quite THAT smooth, e.g.:

>>> def ind_of_sorted4(L):
...   aux = zip(L, range(len(L)))
...   aux.reverse()
...   items = dict(aux).items()
...   items.sort()
...   return zip(*items)
...
>>> ind_of_sorted4('rgafrj')
[('a', 'f', 'g', 'j', 'r'), (2, 3, 1, 5, 0)]
>>>

dict, called with a sequence of pairs, is guaranteed to keep
the LAST pair out of any subset that has the same first item
(key), which is why reversing works here.  Of course, these
are all 2.2 solutions -- in 2.3 you can slice a list by [::-1] 
to get its reversed copy more smoothly:

>>> def ios5(L):
...   items = dict(zip(L,range(len(L)))[::-1]).items()
...   items.sort()
...   return zip(*items)
...
>>> ios5('rgafrj')
[('a', 'f', 'g', 'j', 'r'), (2, 3, 1, 5, 0)]
>>>

However, I think the several-statements approach of ind_of_sorted4
may be preferable -- more readable -- even if the alternate "squash
all into one statement" styles are available...


Alex



From musikintresserad at yahoo.se  Mon Nov 18 04:40:08 2002
From: musikintresserad at yahoo.se (Adam S)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:40:08 +0000
Subject: Python urllib.urlretrieve vs. Perl getstore
References: <3DD3F7E8.519BC0BF@yahoo.se> <mailman.1037371191.5933.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD8B578.E5EE2F88@yahoo.se>

Python code snippet:
"file_url" is something like
"http://servername.intranet.company.com/serverspace/stored_file.tar.gz"
file_name is something like "/export/tmp/directory".

urllib.urlretrieve(file_url,file_name) # download the file

I'm running Python 2.2.

The perl 5.6.1 version uses 'getstore'

Adam

holger krekel wrote:
> Please be more specific and post relevant code-snippets and
> which python-library you use.
> 
> IMO perl's as well as python's retrieving functions should be
> 99% IO-bound meaning that there shouldn't be a speed
> difference unless you are having a Gigabit-Internet-Connection :-)
> 
> regards,
> 
>     holger


From bushbo at attbi.com  Sat Nov  9 19:26:09 2002
From: bushbo at attbi.com (Brian O. Bush)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 16:26:09 -0800
Subject: indexed looping, functional replacement?
References: <3fe406f0.0211091037.2795e538@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3fe406f0.0211091626.5277990f@posting.google.com>

bushbo at attbi.com (Brian O. Bush) wrote in message news:<3fe406f0.0211091037.2795e538 at posting.google.com>...
> I currently have a list of functions and a list of arguments to the
> functions (n to n). Is there a way I can get around having to keep an
> index into the arguments as I loop through the functions. 

First, thanks for all your feedback.
I was playing around and came up with some alternative solutions:

def f1(str):
    return float(str)
def f2(str):
    return float(str) - 1 
def f3(str):
    return float(str)

str = ["2.144", "2.343", "3.14159"]
fn = [f1, f2, f3]

an alternative imperative approach:
z = []
for i in range(len(fn)):
    z.append(fn[i](str[i]))
print z

and a functional approach, which I like alot:
z = map(lambda f, arg: f(arg), fn, str)
print z


Cheers,
Brian


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Nov  3 01:38:29 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 22:38:29 -0800
Subject: List slice assignment and custom sequences
References: <mailman.1036276862.18969.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DC4C465.4E3B8458@alcyone.com>

Ronald Oussoren wrote:

> No, I want to replace part of a sequence by another sequence.

If the sequence that your splicing into is a custom type, then it's
going to depend on whether such splicing is implemented and how. 
Presumably it would want a sequence on the right-hand side of the same
type as the left-hand side.

> I don't
> understand _why_ the RHS must be a list if the LHS is one. It doesn't
> even allow a tuple, even though tuples can be used instead of lists in
> almost all code that treats the sequence as read-only.

It just sounds like common sense to me; the splicing operation should
take the same type of sequence on the right-hand side as the left. 
Since Python allows you trivial conversion from _any_ sequence to a list
with the list function/type, it seems like a non-problem to me if the
right-hand side isn't a list to start with.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    WebVal / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/webval/
 URL scanner, maintainer, and validator in Python.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Nov 27 10:39:57 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:39:57 -0600
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
In-Reply-To: <3DE44EF7.3060402@something.invalid>
References: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com> <3de3e129$0$4437$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <mailman.1038346237.22708.python-list@python.org> <3DE44EF7.3060402@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <20021127153956.GB9830@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 05:49:59PM +1300, Greg Ewing wrote:
> Jeff Epler wrote:
> 
> >but in that case, what is
> >    a, b += t
> >equivalent to?
> 
> 
> Obviously it's
> 
>    a, b = iadd(a, t[0]), iadd(a, t[1])
> 
> >What about
> >    t += a, b
> 
> 
> This is already meaningful:
> 
>    t = iadd(t, (a, b))

Right now
    t = i, j
    a, b = t
    del t
is equivalent to
    a, b = i, j
except that the temporary t is never created (it resides on the stack)

But that means that you'd want
    t = a, b
    t += i, j
    a, b = t
    del t
to be equivalent to
    a, b += i, j
but now 't += (i, j)' has been given two different meanings -- the one
it has already, and the one it would need to have to make "augmented
assignment via tuple unpacking" work in the "desired" way.

Jeff



From lbrannma at cablespeed.com  Mon Nov 11 20:06:36 2002
From: lbrannma at cablespeed.com (Lance)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:06:36 -0800
Subject: text formatting module?
Message-ID: <ut0kfm7iegohde@corp.supernews.com>

Hi All,

I would like to write text that word wraps to two or three levels of tab
stops.

For example....

y = 30*'hello world'
s = 'start\t' + y

This won't do it... since the string will continue off the screen.

Is there a module or can anyone suggest how I might write a procedure to
wrap y at the tab stop, irrespective of the length of y?

I want the result to look like this:

start     hello world hello world.....
           world hello world....

Thanks in advance,
Lance




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 11 13:57:12 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 18:57:12 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net> <aqilvp$3l1$0@216.39.172.122> <3dcd6aee.7793165@news.earthlink.net> <aqktm8$7ug$0@216.39.172.122> <3dceb920.8008485@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <aqoui8$e94$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:59:35 GMT, engsol at teleport.com wrote:

>On 10 Nov 2002 06:17:44 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:15:31 GMT, engsol at teleport.com wrote:
>>
>>>On 9 Nov 2002 09:54:01 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:48:35 GMT, engsol at teleport.com wrote:
>>>>
>
>>>One example of the legacy requirement is: we have a custom plug-in card which needs to be
>>PCI? All done via IO ports or has DMA? Uses interrupts? Time-critical parts?
>>
>>>loaded with data, then triggered to output the data stream to the system under test. The
>>>driver for the card works well, and it'd be nice to not have to rewrite it. The source can
>>How do you use "the driver" now? Are you saying "driver" just in the loose sense of any software
>>that lets you use some hardware in some way? Or do you really mean "driver" as in developed using
>>DDK or equivalent and put in C:\WINNT\system32\drivers\whizzomatcard.sys? Or a privileged app?
>>
>>>be recompiled as a DLL(?)  module...I think.  Or at the least as a library header
>>Why do you think you want to do that? (I'm not suggesting it's a bad idea, I'm just wondering
>>what leads you to think you may need to do that). How do you currently operate, and how do
>>you hope to operate, at the user interface level?
>>
>>>file..again..I think.
>>>
>>It's still hard (for me anyway) to tell what your situation.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Bengt Richter
>
>
>LOL...this is a bit embarrassing....but here's more detail. Please keep the groans to a
>minimum...:)
>
>The test application is written in C. It's a DOS 6.22 application, compiled using Borland
>3.0. We've tried newer versions, but they won't compile our source as is. The source is
>3/4 million lines, including comments, blank lines, dead code, etc.,and the executable is
>about 1 meg. It uses COM1, COM2 and COM3 to "talk" to the test fixture, plus it talks to a
>couple of in-house designed and built ISA cards refered to above. One card's output is a
>pair of BNC coax connectors which in turn are connected to the test fixture. The other
>custom ISA card is attached to the test fixture using a 37 conductor ribbon cable.
>
>The application provides a console-like user interface, command line style. The app has
>the facility to run 'scripts', loosely based on a C-like syntax, which is how we write our
>test scenarios to automate product software testing. The app also has "drivers" to run the
>cards, IO ports, user interface, etc.
>
It sounds to me you have several kinds of analysis ahead, but the first thing is to decompose
the overall problem into pieces that don't have too much to do with each other.

E.g., critical interrupt service latency concerns are (or should be) separate from
worries about how to train new employees to edit test scripts.

I would guess you have to decide how long you need to keep the current thing going with legacy
OS and tools (you *do* have well-marked CDs with 100.00000% of the sources **and** tools and scripts
**and** OS stuff you need to recover if the building washes out to sea, right ;-).

Second and related, your hardware probably has an evolution path of its own. If it's about to
take a radical fork requiring much rework of the legacy software, you will be in a tough spot
trying to decide how much more to invest in the legacy stuff while seeing that if you can
get away with one more patchwork mod, you're probably going to get results faster by doing that
than taking on a lot of software design and various little learning curves that add up and mess
with schedules. (Incidentally, that economic dynamic is one of the fundamental causes of bloatware IMO).

It sounds like timing will be critical to how you build the next generation of your test system,
but if it's decomposed appropriately, the most critical aspects could be insulated from the general
operating environment. E.g., there are very critical hard real-time requirements in burning CDs,
but the hardware is designed with huge buffering to keep those requirements mostly away from PC software.
Perhaps running tests can be largely isolated like that, so that hard real time requirements don't
affect your ability to use Python in parts of the system that don't have any such hard RT requirements.

To see what your options are going to be, I think you will have to get a very clear understanding
of what's what timing wise. You should be able to identify every parallel thread of activity in
your whole system, including hardware, software, and human activity, and be able to draw parallel
time lines across the page for all of them and mark events and draw the triggering/dependency arrows
and crosshatched tolerance areas, like the chip guys do.

Obviously, you will have different things applying during overnight test runs, vs. whatever interactive
monitoring and control modes you may have, vs. data archiving vs. report generation vs. offline script
editing and verifying, etc. etc. The key is to identify all the elements affecting critical operation,
and get the irrelevancies sidelined.

If you have legacy custom hardware designed by people with separate money and scheduling concerns
from the software people, you may have legacy software that is doing stuff that really should have
been done in hardware, and to tighter timing constraints than necessary (e.g., someone forgot to latch
a status signal so it can be read a little longer after the interrupt? What determines how long a board
reset line is held?) Things like that should show up in a detailed analysis.

Once you know what your critical time constraints are, you can select an OS environment that can
handle it. BTW, a dumb polling loop in a DOS program with a dedicated machine is hard to beat, because
CPUs are so fast nowadays. The gray area where an interrupt context switch costs about the same as a full
polling loop has contracted to a very narrow time range. I'm guessing that a simple loop (or some state
machine version that chops the spaghetti in a little more organized fashion) is at the bottom of your DOS
test running environment, with interrupts doing minimal critical stuff and setting state that can be
polled.

I can't believe that a large percentage of that 3/4 million lines of code are concerned with time-
critical stuff (unless it's huge data tables for sequencing out timed signal patterns or parsing incoming
ones, but data ought to be easy to port).

So what do the timing diagrams show about what parts are involved and what parts can be factored out?
And which parts cause the compilation problems in migrating to a newer compiler? Do you have
hard coded assembly looking at data strucures that change for newer support libraries. Is it easy
to identify where the problems are, or (shudder) are there such potential unsafe/unportable-design
traps all over?

Have you considered an embedded SBC-based controller pod to do the critical timing stuff, and
communicating with it with firewire or usb or fast ethernet or whatever to meet bandwidth/qos
requirements (which are ... ?!)? A pod with a well-supported PC interface would let you run human
interface stuff from laptops or PCs on the bench or whatever, and presumably let you use Python
a lot without too many worries (not saying zero ;-). This could be totally blue-sky or not, depending
on your situation, people, budgets, market, etc.

An interesting site re embedded linux products and software is

    http://www.linuxdevices.com/


>As background, the app began 10-12 years ago as a simple thing, then as time went on,
>became larger and larger as more capabilty was added. Concurrantly, the products under
>test became faster, more complicated, etc. We're now to the point that maintenance is
>almost a full time job, we're out of memory (lots of page swapping/overlays), speed is an
I presume you are swapping/overlaying from files in a RAM disk file system in extended
memory? But, yuck anyhow.

>issue (we really need an RTOS....events of interest are sub-millisecond now), background
>sequencers are at their limits (threads would be nice), on and on. Plus it locks up a lot
How many parallel state sequences are you managing? (comes back to the timing diagrams).

>these days, which is not good when trying to run a two day test suite over the weekend.

>
>Soooo what is the new tool to look like? Which platform/OS is the "right" one? Which
Maybe it's not a matter of "*the* tool" and "*the* platform" -- i.e., maybe it's a few
connected systems each doing what they're best at.

>script language would provide the testers with what they need? Having to compile scripts,
>if it were C or C++, doesn't seem like a good idea, and not very newbie friendly. Perl,
>while powerful,is a bit obtuse. TCL is a bit limited, although named pipes are handy.
>Plus, "bread-boarding" quickie tests from the command line would be awkward at best. How
Since you are contemplating what language to use to express tests in, have you looked at
what standards there are? I.e., I think there are proprietary test languages, and you have
something going now that apparently does the job, and there are programming languages, Python
being the premier choice,  and there may be something else. E.g., have you looked at SMIL?
It's used to specify the parallel timed activity required for multimedia using XML syntax,
which leverages a bunch of available tools and docs and programmer familiarity. Would your
current scripting language be easy to translate to/from other representations? For SMIL, see

    http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo

In a way, preparing and running real time tests would seem to have a lot of parallels with
preparing and running a multimedia show. There are disparate media and devices to control
in a tightly coordinated fashion, and there are offline editing activites that have no real
time demands at all, and others where glitches and dropouts are acceptable albeit annoying.

>best to implement a user GUI, and still maintain a command line interface?  We're in the
>exploration mode, as it were, to answer some of these questions.
>
I still get too much of a monolith sensation. I can't believe there aren't separate activities
best handled according to their separate natures and requirements.

>After a lot of reading and web searching, we discovered Python. I'd done some tcl/tk, and
>while it was fun, didn't seem to be a suitable script language for inexperienced test
>people. But Python does. I've been writing routines in Python, just to get a feel for the
>difficulty in implementing some "bread and butter" functions. Guess what...I was amazed at
>how easy it was to perform rather complicated encoding schemes in Python...1-2 pages of
>code... as compared to doing it in C, which takes 3-6 pages of code. As another "test", I
>also wrote a Python routine to parse test log files (big, and lots of them, scattered in
>different directories...thanks, glob), and make a formatted CSV file. Then hand it off to
>Access for report generation. Piece of cake...gotta love them REs...:) That's why I'm a
>convert. Then I wondered about IO port access....not much mention of that in the Python
>docs...sockets, yes....direct control of the UARTs, no. But thanks to Mark Hammond and
>Andy Robinson's book re Win32 API...that looks do-able with no particular tricks.
>
>Then the thought occurs....will we be forced to write some things in C/C++? ISRs? RTOS
>interface? Driving the custom cards? Timers? I don't know, but it's possible there will be
>some tasks which will benefit from extending Python. If so, what's involved? How do you do
>that...exactly? This is why I posted the request for help/info to this great newsgroup. I
>need to figure out the process of extending Python...if it's needed.
>
>To end my rambling...the answer to the driver question above has answered itself, I think.
>Why would I want to port a 16-bit DOS module to NT/2K/Linux, as is? Thanks to the
<~OT>
OTOH, I was surprised how good the DOS emulation under windows is if your DOS program does
everything according to MS rules (i.e., you don't set interrupt vectors in low memory directly:
you use BIOS system calls, etc.) I ran across an old DOS program I had written in MASM 6.11
and it used BIOS interrupts for i/o, stole several interrupt vectors and processed interrupts
itself, acccessed text mode video card memory directly to do a text quasi-GUI with pop-up
windows and navigation through various input slots etc., and also spawned another program
and captured results and *all* those ancient interfaces worked when I just double click started
it with windows explorer. I could hardly believe it. The only thing was the DOS console window was
a little squashed top to bottom compared to hardware text mode, but all the colors and popups with
their drop shadows and everything worked. The cursor blinked and moved properly. Everything.

I'm not saying your your app would run as is under NT, but it would be interesting to see what
it would do with a hella fast processor and the right .pif parameters. I wouldn't waste a lot
of time on it tho ;-)

Of course for my app there was no tight timing to worry about, and what was going on behind
virtualized interrupts and video card memory access being translated to effects in an NT console
window must have involved a *lot* of cycles. But I was impressed, say what you will about MS.
Of course, I read that you could *boot* a foreign floppy on a virtual machine under OS/2 control
and have it execute in a virtual environment. I wonder if you could boot linux ;-)
</~OT>

>discussion on this helpful newsgroup..I don't think I do. But I still need to understand
>the process of adding Python modules, when to use DLLs if it makes sense, how to expose
>them to Python, how to use them, etc. I need the "process"...I can figure out the code, I
>hope...:)
>
There is good reading at

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/ext.html

and

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/api.html

Or if you have MSVC++6.x and want to run an example real quick,
download the 2.2.2 sources and follow directions in

    D:\Python-2.2.2\PC\example_nt\readme.txt

(your path may vary).

For 2.2.2 they did a really nice job of setting up workspace and project files
for everything. (Attaboys to all involved!)

You can take a C/C++ program and link in the interpreter and have it do python things under
C/C++ control, or you can run the interpreter and have it access C/C++ code in custom extension
modules, or you can do stuff where each environment can access things defined in the other both
ways. You have a lot of options.

But it sounds to me like your critical question is going to be timing, and factoring the
system to separate out the critical parts. BTW, if you want to do things with tight timing
on windows, I think you will want to look into how multimedia is supported by the OS. I haven't
done any MM to talk about, but maybe the game people can advise you.

>(Now, if I can just find a good COM book per Alex's suggestions.....)
>
A lot to think about. Good luck ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From andrew.gregory at npl.co.uk  Thu Nov  7 10:52:44 2002
From: andrew.gregory at npl.co.uk (Andrew Gregory)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 07:52:44 -0800
Subject: SWIG /Python problem
Message-ID: <2830c89c.0211070752.3e37ca43@posting.google.com>

I've just upgraded from SWIG 1.3.11 to 1.3.16. I tested it by
re-building an already working Python DLL (using Borland 5.5 C/C++
compiler).
On importing it I got the error message: _PyImport_FixupExtension

Examining it I found that an extra underscore had appeared in the
wrapper file. Previously (1.3.11):

/* -------- TYPES TABLE (END) -------- */

#define SWIG_init    initpysimple

#define SWIG_name    "pysimple"


Now (1.3.16):
/* -------- TYPES TABLE (END) -------- */


/*-----------------------------------------------
              @(target):= _pysimple.so
  ------------------------------------------------*/
#define SWIG_init    init_pysimple

#define SWIG_name    "_pysimple"


The .def file now looks like this

LIBRARY PYSIMPLE
EXPORTS
  initpysimple = _init_pysimple
DESCRIPTION 'Simple Python DLL'
EXETYPE WINDOWS
CODE MOVEABLE
DATA MOVEABLE MULTIPLE
HEAPSIZE 1024



How do I fix this?



Andrew.


From imbosol at vt.edu  Fri Nov 15 16:20:18 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:20:18 -0500
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037380265.15644.python-list@python.org> <3DD55D20.4030000@dittmar.net>
Message-ID: <ar3vgs$d0g$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Daniel Dittmar wrote:
>> But these are your *opinions*.  
> 
> No. These are criteria (or whatever the plural of criterion is), 
> although of course there isn't a strict line between 'readable' and 'not 
> readable'.

These are criteria not everyone considers important.  To me, ability
to search for something has nothing to do with its readability.


> Most Python programmers will agree that putting something 
> into a library is generally a better choice than inventing a new syntax. 

Usually this is true, if it is something that a library function is
capable of.  There are a few things in Python that have their own
syntax where a library function will do (print, exec), but not many.

However, list comprehensions have their own syntax because it's
impossibe to do them with a function.  This was not a case of someone
saying, "we could do this as a function, but it's so important that we
have to define a new syntax for it."


> Where some disagree is if building a list is so common that a new syntax 
> makes the code actually more readable because the intentions are more 
> explicit.

Some might argue that list comprehensions are not useful enough or too
unsightly to justify adding complexity to the language, but no correct
thinker would argue that it should have been a function instead of a
new syntax.



-- 
CARL BANKS


From ledruker at rogers.com  Sun Nov 24 12:56:28 2002
From: ledruker at rogers.com (Ludmila Druker)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:56:28 GMT
Subject: a % b == b when a is a very small negative number
References: <uu1uocd4db4be5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <gp8E9.151408$YSz1.113490@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

"Lee Harr" <missive at frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:uu1uocd4db4be5 at corp.supernews.com...
>
> I have some code which is storing the direction an object
> is moving, and I want to keep that value: 0 <= direction < 2*PI
...
> This works fine until direction is some very very small negative number,
> like -0.1e-16.
...
> Is this not a proper use of the % operator?
> Should not a % b always be less than b?

Let b > 0. The operation a%b must result in 0 <= x < b.
It can be imagined as a snippet

x = a
while x >= b: x -= b       # b=2*pi
while x < 0.0: x += b     # your case

The comparison of x with 0.0 has no problem.
The addition of 2*pi for small number results to 2*pi.
Use:
if a+2*math.pi == 2*math.pi: print '=='
else: print '<>'
as a test. So, you have what you want.

ED






From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  8 16:46:23 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 21:46:23 -0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <20021108.121940.201305624.9010@cybermesa.com> <uso6sqgn3fmcb0@corp.supernews.com> <20021108.135935.824272813.9010@cybermesa.com>
Message-ID: <usoc5fda35flc6@corp.supernews.com>

In article <20021108.135935.824272813.9010 at cybermesa.com>,
Jay O'Connor <joconnor at cybermesa.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>No, I'm making the point that TCL is syntactically weaker at expressing
>complex structures and this is a qualitative difference between the two
>languages
>
>Expanding beyond just getting a single value from a multidimensional list
>is what happens when you start throwing in lrange for slicing and other
>ways of unwrapping the structure.  TCL's approach of using 'functionName
>$var1 var2' leads quite easily and naturally to such 'monstrosities' as a
>natural consequence of the stucture of the language.   When you start
>throwing in heterogenous structures, especially dealing with nested
>arrays (dictionaries) , etc..the syntactical shortcut doesn't scale very
>well to dealing with complex data.  (incidentally, your example does not
>do the same thing.
>
>set l1 "1 2 3"
>set l2 "4 5 6"
>set l3 [list $l1 $l2]
>set x [lindex [lindex $l3 1] 1]
>puts $x
>
>results in '5'
>
>using 'set x(1,1)
>results in an error
Yes and no.  Tcl is awful for structuring data
complexly in analogy to C.  It's at least medi-
ocre, though, at handling complex data in its
own idioms.

Yes, I fully understand that "set x(1,1)" above
gives an exception.  I'm saying that all the
well-crafted systems for managing matrices in
Tcl do NOT just make them as nested lists.  One
possibility for a nicely-engineered Tcl matrix
handler is to refer to the "upper left" element
as "x(1,1)".  I'm sorry that your co-workers
imposed such an unaesthetic misuse of Tcl as you
describe on you.

<URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/2995 > has more on the
subject.
			.
		[Jay and Cameron talk
		past each other more]
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 15 10:09:16 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:09:16 GMT
Subject: keyword arguments and **
References: <3dd51831$0$13642$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <w68B9.12486$744.448146@news1.tin.it>

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

> I feel right silly, but for the life of I don't understand why
> the variables I pass to f as named arguments stay remembered:
> 
>>>> def f(fields={}, **args):
> ...     print fields
> ...     fields.update(args)
> ...     print "XXX", fields
> ...
>>>> f(a=1)
> {}
> XXX {'a': 1}
>>>> f(a=1)
> {'a': 1}
> XXX {'a': 1}
>>>> f(b=1)
> {'a': 1}
> XXX {'a': 1, 'b': 1}
>>>> 

Usual problem: when an argument (here, fields) has a default
value that is mutable, that value is determined ONCE, when the
def statement executes -- then that single value stays around
(the function object references it), and if you mutate it you
get such a "memory effect".

Usual fix:

>>> def f(fields=None, **args):
 ...     if fields is None: fields = {}
 ...     print fields
 ...     fields.update(args)
 ...     print "XXX", fields


Alex



From guy at lightwork.co.uk  Wed Nov 20 10:04:54 2002
From: guy at lightwork.co.uk (Guy)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 07:04:54 -0800
Subject: popen / batchfile / environment variables
References: <are0ca$bm$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c07d0edc.0211200704.2e7a299c@posting.google.com>

"Achim Domma" <achim.domma at syynx.de> wrote in message news:<are0ca$bm$07$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Hello,
> 
> I want to write a python script with automaticaly builds a VC.Net solution.
> To make VS.Net usable from commandline, I first have to execute a batchfile
> which sets the required environment variables. In a Dos-Box I would do
> something like this:
> 
> path_to\vcvars32.bat
> devenv solution_file.sln /rebuild "Release"
> 
> If I use popen or system to do the same, every call runs in his own
> environment, so the changes made by the .bat file do not change the settings
> for the second call.
> 
> Any idea how to do that in python?
> 
> regards,
> Achim

Both the ways described are good, I would proberly go for the last one
described by logistix at zworg.com. However you can set enviroment vars
in python

As shown below : I use something like this. Its then possible to
execute a bat file with the enviroment that you have set in python
using popen.

the below function is only a quick function that I made, It works but
might need something smoothing round the edges.


ENV_PATH        = ["C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual
Studio\Common\msdev98",
                   "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual
Studio\VC98\BIN",
                   "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual TOOLS\WINNT",
                   "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual
Studio\Common\TOOLS",
                   "C:\WINNT\SYSTEM"]

AddToEnvroment("PATH",ENV_PATH,";")

# AddToEnviroment - Allows a list of items to be added to an
enviroment var like PATH,INCLUDE,LIB.
def AddToEnvroment(EnviromentVarName,ValuesList=[],Separator=";"):
    # Gets the enviroment Var, and splits into a list.
    TotalEnv =""
    try:
        EnvVarValue=os.environ[EnviromentVarName]
    except:
        os.environ[EnviromentVarName]=""
        EnvVarValue=os.environ[EnviromentVarName]
        
    if EnvVarValue != "":
        EnvVarValue=string.split(EnvVarValue,Separator)
        for Value in ValuesList:
            EnvVarValue.append(Value)
        for Value in EnvVarValue:
            TotalEnv = TotalEnv + Value + Separator
        os.environ[EnviromentVarName]=TotalEnv
    else:       
        for Value in EnvVarValue:
            TotalEnv = TotalEnv + Value + Separator
        os.environ[EnviromentVarName]=TotalEnv


From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 18 17:42:04 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 14:42:04 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
In-Reply-To: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <1037659323.27904.226.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 13:49, Richard Dillingham wrote:
> Kind of like we have multiple assignments in a line (oldx,oldy=x,y), what do
> you think of the ability to have multiple tests in an if statement with only
> one == or >=.
> 
> This would mean that lines like the following:
> if posx>=coords[0] and posy>=coords[1] and posx<=coords[2] and
> posy<=coords[3]:
> 
> Could be rewritten like so:
> if posx,posy>=coords[0],coords[1] and posx,posy<=coords[2],coords[3]

One problem is that this syntax already has a meaning (although it
doesn't appear to have the meaning you seem to intend):

Python 2.2.1 (#1, Aug 30 2002, 12:15:30)
[GCC 3.2 20020822 (Red Hat Linux Rawhide 3.2-4)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> x, y = 2, 1
>>> x1, y1 = 1, 2
>>> (x, y) > (x1, y1)
1
>>>

The other, greater problem is that you are using a *specific*
application of tuples (coordinates) and in general the meaning you
desire can't be applied to tuples, so a language change is undesirable.

Consider that when interpreting tuples as coordinates, (1,2) == (2,1) is
probably true since the magnitudes of the vectors are equal (this would
be a common interpretation for comparing coordinates), but would
probably be considered false for most other applications of tuples.
	
You'll probably be better off creating a Coordinate() class that has the
meaning you are looking for, or perhaps search Google to see if someone
else already has.


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From arasila at pcu.helsinki.fi.invalid  Wed Nov 20 10:27:58 2002
From: arasila at pcu.helsinki.fi.invalid (Antti Rasila)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 15:27:58 GMT
Subject: Teaching numerics with Python
Message-ID: <arg9lu$85u$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

We have a special course on scientific computing at the math.
department of the University of Helsinki. In the past the course
has been based on the book and software bundle Numerical Recipes
in C/C++, and our experience is that this software worked very
well for our purposes. Gnuplot is used for graphing purposes.
In 2002, we used the C++ version for the first time and also
offered to the students the option of using the free GNU
Scientific Library GSL instead of the commercial Numerical
Recipes. For our purposes, it is important that the course
material is available to the students with minor or no cost
and also that everything works (without any major extra hacks)
with the most popular computing platforms platforms including at least
GNU/Linux + GCC and MS Windows/Visual Studio.

It seems that the trend in scientific computing is introduction of high
level scripting languages as front end to the more efficient Fortran/C/etc.
subprogram libraries. For some time we have been studying the
possibility of using Python scripting in this purpose.
We think that with this approach we might obtain the following benefits:

1) Writing basic applications could become simpler, like in MATLAB, while
still having flexibility and performance features of classical programming
language like C.

2) Version control and preparation of learning material (such a solutions
to weekly home work assignments, lecture handouts) is an iterative
process where sometimes 5-10 iterations may be needed. To simplify
these tasks, which include several mechanical steps, one would
like to use Makefile and CVS like functionality. An example of
this kind of application of Python scripting is the Portage package
manager system of Gentoo Linux distribution. The functionality
could include automatic installation and compiling of the libraries,
exercises solutions and also keeping track on updates of
various source files.

3) Integration with CGI/Web based environment could become much
easier. We have already implemented this kind on applications, i.e.
Web-runnable CGI demo applications with Python wrapper.

4) Building graphical front ends and interfaces to the applications
with Tkinter would become much easier than in plain C/C++. This becomes
more important in future, when even fewer students are familiar with
using command line interface.

Our experience in this matter is very limited. So, we would like to
ask, if

1) ..someone has experience on this kind of usage of Python numerical
mathematics? We would be happy to hear from your experiences.

2) ..if some course material and ready program files are available,
which we could use as building blocks of our course?

3) ..you have seen a book such as Scientific Computing with Python

Links:

Spring 2002 course homepage:
http://www.math.helsinki.fi/~arasila/nrc02/




From mgilfix at eecs.tufts.edu  Thu Nov 28 14:26:44 2002
From: mgilfix at eecs.tufts.edu (Michael Gilfix)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:26:44 -0500
Subject: How to install with -O?
Message-ID: <20021128192644.GA19109@eecs.tufts.edu>

  Hi all. I've been using __debug__ in my python programs with the
hope to byte-compile my programs with -O on install and remove the
__debug__ code. However, I haven't figured out quite how to do this
with distutils, and some searching through the documentation didn't
reveal anything. Has anyone solved this problem?

                      -- Mike

-- 
Michael Gilfix
mgilfix at eecs.tufts.edu

For my gpg public key:
http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~mgilfix/contact.html



From wks000 at t-online.de  Sun Nov 10 15:24:19 2002
From: wks000 at t-online.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:24:19 +0100
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net> <Di3z9.8445$Bs5.288545@news1.tin.it> <72lssu89n13e0smobngvb95f8ggtlv65n9@4ax.com> <p4vz9.18360$XO.852521@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <t8dtsu44putvpjjfm0i9j86l0o9uo8r1ah@4ax.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>:

>Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>
>> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>:
>> 
>>>This is more or less the end of the line in terms of what
>>>os.popen can offer -- due to buffering and suchlike there's
>>>no practical way for python to drive BOTH standard input
>>>and standard-output of another external program.
>> 
>> Well, the following snippet, driving nslookup.exe on W2K works for me:
>
>So nslookup.exe on W2K does no more than line-buffering on its output, and 
>reads its input repeatedly, too.  Bully for it (for the sole purpose of 
>controlling both its stdin and stdout with pipes).  

Norm (engsol at teleport.com) wrote "I'm using Python 222 on NT".

Using nslookup (for example) through a pair of pipes works quite well
on NT. One should'nt dismiss the possibility of controlling an external
line mode program trough pipes so quickly, IMHO. That's my point.

>Most programs aren't as 
>skittish with their stdin and stdout once they determine they aren't 
>terminals.  

It comes somewhat of a surprise to me that the concept of byte streams,
pipes and filters works better on NT than on Linux, in this specific
example.


-- 
Wir danken f?r die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen


From duncan at rcp.co.uk  Thu Nov 28 08:58:47 2002
From: duncan at rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:58:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: what does is ?
References: <3de4a6dd$0$86531$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <slrnau9cep.tk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <3DE4B96D.1060808@Linux.ie>
Message-ID: <Xns92D48F4F99797duncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>

Padraig Brady <Padraig at Linux.ie> wrote in news:3DE4B96D.1060808 at Linux.ie:

> Well why does the following happen on 2.2?
> Is Python being clever about merging variables?
> 
> s1="123"
> s2=s1[:]
> s1 is s2 #true?

Slicing a list that way makes a copy, but strings are immutable so the
slice operator doesn't bother copying it. Tuples work the same way as
strings here:

>>> t1 = 1, 2, 3
>>> t2 = t1[:]
>>> t1 is t2
1
>>> 

Without using id() or the is operator, you cannot tell whether or not
s1/t1 were copied, so it is a small but useful optimisation to not copy
it. Note that the same thing happens if you use copy:
>>> from copy import copy, deepcopy
>>> copy(t1) is t1
1
>>> deepcopy(t1) is t1
1

But if the tuple contains mutable objects then it can be copied:

>>> t3 = (1, [], 3)
>>> copy(t3) is t3
1
>>> deepcopy(t3) is t3
0

In general Python will merge some constant strings, and small integers.
Don't use 'is' if this matters to you.


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Fri Nov 22 20:18:01 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:18:01 -0800
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <90lmra.5g4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Eric Brunel fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 22 November 2002 
06:25 am:

> 
> xMax = None
> for -whatever-:
>   -big calculation leading to a value of x-
>   if xMax is None:
>     xMax = x
>   else:
>     xMax = max(x, xMax)
>

        Well, slightly shorter visually:

xMax = None
for -whatever-:
        -big calculation leading to a value of x-
        if xMax is None: xMax = x
        xMax = max(x, xMax)

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 20 10:24:40 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 15:24:40 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <areli6$ris$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnatlo5h.r3b.grante@localhost.localdomain> <arg6kb$es5$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3ddba938$0$4464$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <arg6kb$es5$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:

>>> Sounds like the mask location is safe if you don't call
>>> GetOverlappedResult??

I've added a call to GetOverlappedResult to my Python app, it
hasn't caused problems (nor does it do anything useful).

>>I sure don't know.  I've found examples that don't call GetOverlappedResult
>>and they expect a "delayed" write to *lpfdwEvtMask happen.
>>
> """
>   If the lpo parameter is NULL or the hCommDev handle was opened without specifying
>     the FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED flag, WaitCommEvent does not return until one of the specified
>     events or an error occurs. 
> """
> 
> Did the examples use the FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED flag and provide
> the lpo parameter for sure? 

Yes.

> Otherwise there is apparently an implicit wait.
> 
>>And I thought it impossible for me to grow to hate Windows even more...
>
> Well, try to make your solutions portable ;-)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Not SENSUOUS... only
                                  at               "FROLICSOME"... and in
                               visi.com            need of DENTAL WORK... in
                                                   PAIN!!!


From malik_martin at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 27 06:48:56 2002
From: malik_martin at hotmail.com (malik m)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:48:56 GMT
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>
Message-ID: <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com>

hi yea i messed up here's the code sorry about the html too i was
using it through hotmail while i learnd and still am learning how to
use newsgroups....

#chapter 3 test control structures 3.3
print "hello, this program will tell me how many miles per gallon your
car drives by the \n amount of miles entered by the user along with
the size of his/her tank."

#initialize variables
totalMilesDriven = 0 #total miles driven

totalGallonsPerTank = 0 #total gallons per tank

counter = 0 #bogus counter

#processing phase
gallonsPerTank = raw_input("Enter how many gallons your tank holds, -1
to end:")
gallonsPerTank = int(gallonsPerTank)

milesDriven = raw_input("enter how many miles driven, -1 to end:")
milesDriven = int(milesDriven)

while gallonsPerTank or milesDriven != -1:
    averagea = milesDriven / gallonsPerTank
    counter = counter + 1
    print "your miles per gallon are", averagea
    totalMilesDriven = totalMilesDriven + milesDriven
    totalGallonsPerTank = totalGallonsPerTank + gallonsPerTank
    gallonsPerTank = raw_input("Enter how many gallons your tank
holds, -1 to end:")
    milesDriven = raw_input("enter how many miles driven, -1 to end:")

#termination phase
if counter != 0:
    average = float( totalMilesDriven ) / float( totalGallonsPerTank )
    print "The total miles per gallon is", average
else:
    print "No data entered"



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Wed Nov 20 23:21:10 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:21:10 -0600
Subject: SMTP Relaying 
References: <3DDC02A5.2090003@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002701c29115$6c915600$ba01010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "greenbeard" <greenbeard at yahoo.com>


> Hello all,
> 
> I am having trouble getting some mail through to certain addresses.  I 
> get an SMTPRecipientsRefused {to_address, 550 '5.7.1 
> <to_address>...relaying denied.
> 
> So I am pretty sure that it is due to the target address blocking the 
> relay - my machine -> my SMTP on another machine -> corporate SMTP - as 
> most non-corporate address have no problem receiving.  So think I am 
> hitting the RFC2505 wall here but I cant quite seem to figure out what 
> fields or combination of values to load to let the mail arrive ok.
> 
> All advice appreciated.

I hope you aren't SPAMMING 'cause then we have to 
send the DOGS after you...

SERIOUSLY, if the to_address isn't on the server 
you are connecting to, and they aren't enabled
to relay to that domain, then nothing you can do
will change that.

One of the following:

-- You are connecting to the target mailserver
directly:  you must have screwed up the to_address.

-- You are using your ISP's relay:  It's mis-
configured?  Dunno.  Maybe they don't like your
face  :-)

-- You are using a third party relay without 
permission:  SPAMMER, GET THEE BEHIND ME!

I really hope it's the first.

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net




From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 17:34:37 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:34:37 GMT
Subject: With what module can Python handel *.tar.gz file?
References: <mailman.1037962779.25641.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnauaibb.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Wang Hanbo <bswhb at 263.net> wrote:
[snip 205 lines]

Wow, Outlook Express (or was it Outlook?) really produces some *ugly*
HTML. 205 lines for a seven-line message? What a waste of bandwidth.

Anyway, please turn off HTML emails in your mail client before asking
questions on this newsgroup. Send in Plain Text only -- any other method
wastes a lot of bandwidth, plus it looks just plain ugly.

Or better yet: ditch Outlook / Outlook Express and get a better
mail/news client. (Is mutt available on Windows? What about slrn?)

I would have been happy to answer your question, but I didn't want to
wade through 200+ lines of HTML to do so.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From zimmermann.edv at t-online.de  Wed Nov 20 16:45:37 2002
From: zimmermann.edv at t-online.de (Bernd Zimmermann)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:45:37 +0100
Subject: ctypes and delphi dll
References: <aredbs$i4r6a$1@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <argvq1$ijund$1@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de>

Meanwhile I got it .... providing the procedures
arguments in inverse sequence lets the bell ring!

I am happy with ctypes !

Bernd



From wolfoxbr at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 24 00:27:17 2002
From: wolfoxbr at hotmail.com (Roberto Amorim)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 21:27:17 -0800
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org> <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com> <82c04a2.0211220437.3181e213@posting.google.com> <3ddf3f76$1_1@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <82c04a2.0211232127.1a8a2fe1@posting.google.com>

> FreeBSD doesn't come with wget, though it's easy to install. fetch, as used
> by the ports collection, is functionally equivalent. And yes, it's normal...
> 
> /usr/bin/time fetch http://localhost/4MBfile
> Receiving 4MBfile (4343332 bytes): 100%
> 4343332 bytes transferred in 0.7 seconds (6.20 MBps)
>         0.79 real         0.01 user         0.06 sys
> 
> Off to try some of the other suggestions...

Well, since wget is normal, we can rule out TCP/IP settings on
FreeBSD. It is probably related to the way Python handles sockets
under it (on the C source level). Perhaps it's setting sockets as
Linux ones, when they are BSD sockets?

I'll try to take a look on the code to see if I find something like
that (or perhaps Zope's source code for performance tips).


From charles at pentek.com  Fri Nov  8 11:33:48 2002
From: charles at pentek.com (Charles Krug)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:33:48 GMT
Subject: Ethics in abstract disciplines (was: Making a better textbook (was  Re: The Deitel book))
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f@posting.google.com> <815e8a38.0211071038.208c7577@posting.google.com> <slrnasle4n.7kt.charles@homer.pentek.org> <usnhbbotggus7c@corp.supernews.com> <3DCBD7DE.E132BD77@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasnprg.b5r.charles@homer.pentek.org>

On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:27:26 +0000, Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
>> I don't understand this description.  It
>> certainly interests me, though.  I take
>> it that "CS" here means the kind of soft-
>> ware engineering and technology that's
>> typicall taught in college.  And you're
>> seriously saying that sections on ethics
>> appeared in half of your classes?  Can
>> you give a few examples of such content?
> 
> When I was studying for Computer Science degree, in each of the 4 years
> we had a term (semester) of ethics classes, 1 hour per week. These were
> usually given by the same lecturers who gave courses in more technical
> Comp Sci matters.
> 
> The one that really sticks out in my mind is the following question that
> was posed to us in 2nd year (age ~20).
> 

(snip)

> We were posed the following scenario: "You are asked to develop a
> software simulation of the spread of a chemical warfare agent. The
> purpose of the simulation is to maximise the death toll from the use of
> that agent".
> 

That's far more interesting than our ethics unit, which dealt
exclusively with the Usual Suspects of copy protection and file access.

Were you in the real world outside of the Chemwar industry, the same
question would be coached in terms of fertilizer dispersal.  Your
employer would get the same information, but would avoid cluttering up
the question with folks emotions.

The same graph theory that solves networking problems also solves
indistrial logistics problems, and military transport problems.



From gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk  Sat Nov  2 11:41:33 2002
From: gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 16:41:33 +0000
Subject: "Universal Gateway"
References: <apkc4c$d5s$2@pith.uoregon.edu> <n0oxjc6f.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk>
 <Rejw9.22645$jE1.72970@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <1y63gc02.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> writes:

> So it seems there will be 2 universal strategies:
> * If you want to implement one or 2 interfaces (eg, the Outlook addin,
> where you only need to implement a handful of interfaces out of the
> hundreds available) - in this case you stick with the
> "RegisterInterfaces()" type calls in the existing examples.
>
> * You want to implement *all* interfaces in a TLB.  In this case you
> add a couple of extra annotations to your server class, and magic
> happens <wink>

Am I right in reading into this, the fact that the universal gateway
is only for *implementing* general vtable interfaces (as one poster
mentioned)? If so, is there a way to *call* an arbitrary interface?
(Actually, I imagine that this should be possible using calldll plus a
reasonable amount of arcane pointer arithmetic, but it sounds like it
could be a bit messy and error prone...)

Paul.

-- 
This signature intentionally left blank


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 19 06:50:41 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:50:41 +0000
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org> <PoWcnQjwr8ECy06gXTWc3A@comcast.com> <ANLA9.10384$Yw.422374@news2.tin.it> <3DD3A563.B781BE58@hotmail.com> <3DD850D3.8030207@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <3DDA2591.958B9EA@hotmail.com>

Alan wrote:

>> class emptyGenerator:
>>     def __init__(self):
>>         raise StopIteration()
>>
>> def emptyGen():
>>     yield emptyGenerator()

Greg wrote:

> This is quite nice, but it's misnamed slightly.
> Something called xxxGenerator should be returning
> an iterator when you call it, but this isn't.
> It would be nicer if it were called Nothing.
> Then you could write
> 
>    def emptyGen():
>       yield Nothing()


While I agree that it was badly named, on thinking further about it, I'm
not sure that "nothing" (i.e. "no thing") is the right name. The right
name is "no thingS". So that would be

class noThings:
    def __init__(self):
        raise StopIteration()

def emptyGen:
    yield noThings()

hair-splitting-ly yrs :-)

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 12 17:14:43 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 22:14:43 GMT
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <mailman.1037137605.20012.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dd17d53$0$4464$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1037137605.20012.python-list at python.org>, Brian Quinlan wrote:

> I don't like the augmented operations because, depending on the object,
> the operation may or may not be done in-place. 
> 
> I think that it is better to be explicit and use assignment or method
> call. That way you know what you are getting.

If it matters which you get, then that's probably a good idea.

I use it quite a bit, and I don't think I don't remember a case
where it has mattered.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I will establish
                                  at               the first SHOPPING MALL in
                               visi.com            NUTLEY, New Jersey...


From rpm at wag.caltech.edu  Wed Nov 27 12:58:44 2002
From: rpm at wag.caltech.edu (Richard Muller)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:58:44 -0800
Subject: More pythonic way to change an element of a tuple?
Message-ID: <as314e$c4u$2@naig.caltech.edu>

I frequently have to change a single element of a tuple, and I wind up 
doing something like this:

tmp = list(data_in_tuple)
tmp[item] += 1
data_in_tuple = tuple(tmp)

Is there a more beautiful way of doing this? Seems a bit awkward.

Thanks in advance,

Rick



From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov 10 10:39:01 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:39:01 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net> <Di3z9.8445$Bs5.288545@news1.tin.it> <72lssu89n13e0smobngvb95f8ggtlv65n9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <p4vz9.18360$XO.852521@news2.tin.it>

Wolfgang Strobl wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>:
> 
>>This is more or less the end of the line in terms of what
>>os.popen can offer -- due to buffering and suchlike there's
>>no practical way for python to drive BOTH standard input
>>and standard-output of another external program.
> 
> Well, the following snippet, driving nslookup.exe on W2K works for me:

So nslookup.exe on W2K does no more than line-buffering on its output, and 
reads its input repeatedly, too.  Bully for it (for the sole purpose of 
controlling both its stdin and stdout with pipes).  Most programs aren't as 
skittish with their stdin and stdout once they determine they aren't 
terminals.  On Linux, for example, running the same script you've posted 
gives:

(---
Note:  nslookup is deprecated and may be removed from future releases.
Consider using the `dig' or `host' programs instead.  Run nslookup with
the `-sil[ent]' option to prevent this message from appearing.
> www.python.org

and here it hangs forever -- I think nslookup is writing the prompt to
standard-error in this case, reserving stdout for output, e.g.:

[alex at lancelot examples3]$ echo www.python.org | nslookup 2>/dev/null
Server:         192.168.0.12
Address:        192.168.0.12#53

www.python.org  canonical name = fang.python.org.
Name:   fang.python.org
Address: 194.109.137.226

[alex at lancelot examples3]$


Alex



From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 22 18:47:02 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:47:02 -0800
Subject: Iteration of strings
In-Reply-To: <DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489@news010.worldonline.dk>
References: <DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489@news010.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <200211222347.PAA21872@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Friday 22 November 2002 14:58, Bjarke Dahl Ebert wrote:
> When writing small scripts in Python, I often make the same error:
>
> Some function expects a list of strings, and does something like
>     for elem in thestringlist: ...
>
> What do you think?

Use an assertion in your function (or script):

def dont_allow_string_argument( s ):
    assert not isinstance( s, type("") )

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From doug.fort at verizon.net  Wed Nov 13 16:40:18 2002
From: doug.fort at verizon.net (Doug Fort)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:40:18 GMT
Subject: Graham's spam filter
References: <20021113220949.2daa7540.christophe.delord@free.fr>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.13.21.40.42.850716@verizon.net>

check out http://spambayes.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Doug Fort, Programmer
http://www.dougfort.net



From deltapigz at telocity.com  Thu Nov  7 00:30:57 2002
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:30:57 -0500
Subject: Placing Tkinter objects in a dictionary
Message-ID: <3dc9fa87$1_4@nopics.sjc>

I have a loop creating Tkinter objects (an Entry text box) all with the same
name and placing its instance in a dictionary: i.e:

for x in range(10):
    myEntry = Entry(frame)
    myEntry.grid(row=x, column=0)

    someDict['%s'%x] = myEntry

now I have another function which will modify myEntry:

def someFunc(x, data):
    someDict[str(x)].config(text=data) # here is my error; the config does
not work;
                                       # no error is raised.

any help is greatly appreciated.

Adonis




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Sun Nov 10 07:18:10 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 13:18:10 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9b8hqa.eo3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqhmib$ei8$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <eppstein-DC177C.17122508112002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <tyfwunl1uv1.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> writes:

> Lisp is based around singly linked lists while Python uses 
> vectors (with efficient random access unlike Lisp lists)

Sigh. More FUD.

Please look at 

http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/15_.htm

It is the chapter of the Hypertext version of the Common Lisp ANSI
standard, which describes that which you imply does not exist.

(On second thoughts, don't look at it, because once you have, you may
well become disappointed with what Python has to offer in terms of
arrays.)

> and dictionaries.

http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/18_.htm

(There are also alists and plists which can serve a similar purpose,
and may well be more appropriate is some situations.)

> They are also not especially similar in programming style,

You'll find plenty of people who disagree.


From munja at sipa.kav.vest.hr  Thu Nov 28 07:03:20 2002
From: munja at sipa.kav.vest.hr (Ivica Munitic)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 12:03:20 GMT
Subject: Screen Capture
Message-ID: <slrnauc1mf.gcu.munja@sipa.kav.vest.hr>

Hello guys!!

How can I get a screen capture within a python program ?
What module should i install ?

Tnx!


From s13361562 at spammenot.bach.sun.ac.za  Sun Nov  3 04:48:23 2002
From: s13361562 at spammenot.bach.sun.ac.za (Hugo van der Merwe)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 11:48:23 +0200
Subject: Python2.1->2.2 broke my thread/signal code?
Message-ID: <aq2rd7$2mc8$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>

I have some code starting ogg123 in a new thread, I then send signals 
(SIGTERM. Clearly the code is "wrong", since it didn't survive the 2.1->2.2 
upgrade. What should I change? What am I doing wrong?

Here is the code, trimmed down significantly to only the relevant part:



#!/usr/bin/env python

import signal
import os
import time
import thread

class player:
    playerpid = 0

    def skip(self):
        os.kill(self.playerpid, signal.SIGTERM)

    def stop(self):
        os.kill(self.playerpid, signal.SIGSTOP)

    def play(self):
        pid = os.fork()
        if pid == 0:
            signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, signal.SIG_DFL)
            os.setpgrp()  # not really sure what the effect of this is
            try:
                os.execv("/usr/bin/ogg123", 
['/usr/bin/ogg123',"/home/music/stow/owned/STEF_BOS/BESTE_VAN_BOS/07-PAPA.ogg"])
            except:
                os._exit(1)
        else: self.playerpid = pid
        os.wait()

n = player()
thread.start_new_thread(n.play,())
# Not using a thraed results in an ogg123 that can be killed with
# "kill" from bash.
#n.play()
time.sleep(5)
n.skip()   # This does the job when using 2.1, but not when using 2.2
time.sleep(5)



Thanks,
Hugo van der Merwe



From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Fri Nov 22 11:00:41 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:00:41 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
In-Reply-To: <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0211221712380.27763-100000@cens.kybi>

On 22 Nov 2002, Andrew Koenig wrote:

> Eric> So I told myself: wouldn't it be great if max(None, x) or
> Eric> min(None, x) always simply returned x?
> 
> My first thought was that this was an excellent idea.
> 
> Then I thought again.
> 
> Here's the problem:  The notion that max(None, x) and min(None, x)
> should both return x is one of three desirable properties that cannot
> all be true at once.  Here are the other two:
> 
>         1) Whenever x < y, min(x, y) is x and max(x, y) is y.
> 
>         2) < is an order relation over all types.
> 
> The desirability of (1) should be obvious.  (2) is more subtle, but
> it is necessary for it to be possible to sort a vector of heterogenously
> typed objects.
> 
> Now, if max(None, x) and min(None, x) both yield x, and (1) is true,
> then x > None and x < None must both be true. 

If max(None, x) and min(None,x) both yield x, then already (1) cannot be
true. For example, take x=None in (1). Then 

 min(None, y) is None and max(None, y) is y

But this contraticts the assumption that min(None, x) is x.

> But then (2) cannot be true.

(2) is never true. Hint: complex numbers.


Pearu





From Oschler at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  7 09:15:25 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:15:25 GMT
Subject: [Jython] Pass variable or class reference to PythonInterpreter?
References: <udly9.44909$Lg2.12278128@news2.news.adelphia.net> <qVpy9.1040$XO.51258@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <1Auy9.45044$Lg2.12386430@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:qVpy9.1040$XO.51258 at news2.tin.it...
> Robert Oschler wrote:
>
>
> Sure, Jython's PythonInterpreter class gives you methods you
> can use for this purpose.  interp.set("theString", theString)
> for example would add an attribute named "theString" to the
> inteprreter's local namespace, with its value set to the Java
> value theString.  *CHANGING* it is obviously out of the question
> (strings are immutable in Java *AND* in Python), but THAT
> is clearly a completely different issue.
>

Alex,

Re: String == immutable.  Sure, but other types and user classes are OK
right?  At least that's what the tests I ran indicated.  I did discover that
a the class of a instance variable passed to the python interpreter via the
set() method, must be public if it's going to be accessed by the Python
Interpreter, otherwise you get a Java illegal access exception when Jython
tries to reflect the class.  I would have thought private inner classes,
'inner' to the class whose method created the PythonInterpreter insntance,
would have been OK but they're not.

thx





From Patrick.Carabin at SciencesNaturelles.be  Tue Nov  5 03:23:51 2002
From: Patrick.Carabin at SciencesNaturelles.be (Patrick Carabin)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:23:51 +0100
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ?
In-Reply-To: <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOOENPDPAA.marklists@mceahern.com>
References: <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOOENPDPAA.marklists@mceahern.com>
Message-ID: <02110509235100.01192@pc20_118>

When i try to use groups.google.com, i allways get the message :

?
Apache Tomcat/4.0.3 - HTTP Status 500 - No Context configured to 
process this request

type Status report

message No Context configured to process this request

description The server encountered an internal error (No Context 
configured to process this request) that prevented it from fulfilling 
this request.
?

What can i do to answer a thread, please ?
-- 

Patrick Carabin.

Institut Royal des Sciences Naturelles de Belgique 
http://www.SciencesNaturelles.be/
Koninklijk Belgisch Instituut voor Natuurwetenschappen 
http://www.NatuurWetenschappen.be/ 

?Het geluk is niet op het einde van de weg, het geluk is de weg.?
?Le bonheur n'est pas au bout du chemin, le bonheur est le chemin.?
						Dala? Lama.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 11 17:15:10 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:15:10 -0500
Subject: Is python a good choice for this task?
References: <pan.2002.11.11.20.29.19.704887.2239@spongebob.corporate.com>
Message-ID: <eLSdnc-PiOEVtk2gXTWcpQ@comcast.com>

"Ron Lau" <ral at spongebob.corporate.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.11.11.20.29.19.704887.2239 at spongebob.corporate.com...
> Hi,
>
> This IS NOT a request for someone to write a program for me. (But I
won't
> turn it down :)  ).  The only programming I ever did was FORTRAN >:P
, and short shell
> scripts. I'm just looking for advice.
>
>
> I have a CFD program that takes a text file as input (Q1.1). I run
it on the
> command line as:
>
> phoe Q1.1
>
> which outputs the binary file PH.1
>
>
> I also have a program that gives me a number as the last line of its
> output to the terminal with the command
>
> pointquerey  PH.1 TempK 1 1 1 | tail -1
>
>
> What I do now is compare the output of the line above to the value I
want
> it to be, then change a parameter in the Q1.1 file, say T1=500.0
>
> I would like to write something that would Goal Seek this for me.
> (something simple like a newtonian method)
>
> So I would need a program to..
> --------------------------
>
> run the command "phoe Q1.1"
>
> then run the command "pointquery PH.1 TempK 1 1 1 | tail -1"
>
> read the output of the above and compare to the desired value.
>
> calculate a better value of T1.
>
> replace T1=oldvalue in the file Q1.1 with the calculated value from
> above.
>
> loop back to the beginning...
>
> -------------------------
>
>
> My question is, What language is best suited for this? Perl, Python,
or
> shell scripts?

You can run external programs from Python with os.system('command')
(check docs for details).  You can easily read, modify, and write a
file (check out file() and file objects).   The goal seeking logic can
be programmed in Python as well as anything else.  If the other
programs take any sort of time at all, the interpreted speed of the
Python part will not matter.  This type of glue job is one of the
things Python was invented for.  Good luck.

Terry J. Reedy




From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Mon Nov 25 21:49:15 2002
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 18:49:15 -0800
Subject: stupid Python/database connection
References: <4cce07d5.0211250918.5c97a929@posting.google.com> <f9tE9.53574$744.1962046@news1.tin.it> <uu4vomm2t3bgd5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7876a8ea.0211251849.3541c7fb@posting.google.com>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<uu4vomm2t3bgd5 at corp.supernews.com>...

> Yet another way:  if the Interbase and Oracle interfaces don't already con-
> form to <URL: http://www.python.org/topics/database/DatabaseAPI-2.0.html >,
> you could upgrade them, or hire someone to do so on your behalf.

This is slightly off topic, since the original poster wasn't asking
about *specific* Interbase or Oracle interface modules, but here's the
URL of an Interbase (and Firebird) interface that conforms to the
Python DB API 2.0:

http://kinterbasdb.sourceforge.net/


From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Thu Nov 21 17:55:20 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:55:20 +1100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
In-Reply-To: <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <200211220955.20993.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

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Hash: SHA1

<interesting article about natural language comparison>

I think that this is a good analogy, and I'd like to take it a bit further,
with a couple of examples (and there is a Python link in there, look out for
it :-)

I was fortunate enough to attend Linux Kongress 2002. I did a bit of touring
around in Central Europe before the conference, mainly in Germany. It was a
real struggle at first (I am mono-lingual). The people spoke very fast, and
very few words were familiar. I had a dictionary, and when I wanted to buy
something, or ask a question, I would think about the question (in English),
translate it to German (very badly), and then try to pronounce the words
(very badly). Normally the response I got was "It's OK, I speak English", in
English.

At Linux Kongress, I happened to win a copy of the Python Cookbook (thanks to
O'Reilly). I read a bit of it on the flights back to Australia, and it looked
kind-of interesting, although some of it was very confusing. (especially the
meaning of * and ** in def(), which I thought were something like pointers,
because I do most of my coding in C). I decided that I'd like to learn more,
and bought an intro book, and started on the learning path. I coded a useful
script for testing my network driver after about a week of playing around and
reading, but I certainly wouldn't even consider myself minimally competent at
this stage. I am starting to see solutions in terms of dictionaries, but I
still don't understand some things, and most of it is "what is the problem,
how would I solve this problem (implicitly, in C), now how do I write that in
Python"

The big thing I don't yet really get is OO. I don't see solutions in terms of
classes yet. In the natural language analogy, this is the equivalent of never
come across a tonal language (for those not familiar, this is very roughly
where the meaning (in a denotational sense, not just a connotational sense)
of a sound varies with how it is pronounced - the same sound with a rising
frequency might be a verb, while a flat frequency might be a noun). No OO is
a big hole, and while I can program using classes (in C++ and Python) a
little bit, I don't really "see the solution" in those terms yet.

Also, it clearly helps if the language you are trying to learn is close to the
language(s) you already know. A lot of C knowledge translates to Python.
(like my earlier Pascal, Fortran and Modula-2 translated into C, but Prolog
was more helpful when learning LaTeX). German isn't that different to
English. By contrast, I went to Hungary for a couple of days, and it was a
huge shock. I think that I could have learned enough German to get by in a
few months of immersion. I never felt that I had any grip on Hungarian.
Hungarian is probably like the Lisp of European languages :-)

[Aside: I did formal language aptitude testing when I worked for Defence,
which said I could likely keep up on an intensive French, German or
Indonesian course; but would be unlikely to be able to keep up on the other
courses. This is better than most of my class.]

When I got back, I visited a couple of German speaking friends, one of whom
came out to Australia without a lot of English. She explained that she knew
she had really learned English when she had her first "all in English" dream.

I don't dream in Python yet. And I don't think that even a couple of months of
very serious work gives you that level of knowledge, natural or programming.

Brad
- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From trentm at ActiveState.com  Fri Nov 15 15:28:09 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:28:09 -0800
Subject: redirecting output from spawned processes
In-Reply-To: <3dd53e37.86527109@news.genuity.net>; from jef.mangelschots@iname.com on Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 06:36:04PM +0000
References: <3dd53e37.86527109@news.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <20021115122809.E23552@ActiveState.com>

[Jef Mangelschots wrote]
> How do I redirect the output of 'someapp' to the file log_file ?
> 
> 
>            log_file = 'c:\output.log'
> 
>            os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, 'some_app', 'p1', 'p2')

A couple of ways:

    os.system("someapp > %s" % log_file)

or:

    # get the output
    fout = os.popen(someapp)
    output = fout.read()
    fout.close()

    # then write it to your file
    flog = open(log_file, 'w')
    flog.write(output)
    flog.close()

I think you want the former though. To redirect stderr as well you need
to do a little bit more work:

    os.system("someapp > %s 2>&1" % log_file)

or:

    ... look at os.popen3()


Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov  5 13:54:09 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:54:09 -0600
Subject: How does Python handle probing to see if a file already exists?
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302C309CA@mail.hebmex.com>
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302C309CA@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <15816.5073.986815.981549@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    gustavo> Others have talked about the goodness of using try/except, I'll
    gustavo> say to use os.access(), which is precisely for what you're
    gustavo> asking, if you can read or write a file.

os.access() is almost never what you want.  On Unix systems, if you are su'd
to another user it tests permissions using the wrong user (real instead of
effective).  Just try the operation and recover if it throws an exception.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From john.abel at pa.press.net  Fri Nov 15 10:01:46 2002
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:01:46 +0000
Subject: Calling A Deconstructor
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E09CEF@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <3DD50C5A.3090800@pa.press.net>

Thanks very much that.  Explains a lot.  A lot of the docs I've read, 
mention the __init__, but not much on the __del__.

Thanks again.

John

sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

>>From: John Abel [mailto:john.abel at pa.press.net]
>>Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 7:47 AM
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I have a class, with an __init__, and a main function, basically a 
>>wrapper around smtplib.  I wish to add a __del__ to the class.  Two 
>>questions:  Do I need to do it this way?  If so, how do I can 
>>close the instance, so the __del__ is called?  The script will be
>>permanently resident, so I wanted to make sure that I didn't have
>>various connections open to the smtp server.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>John
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Hmm... interesting conundrum.
>
>An object is "deleted" automatically when the last reference
>to it disappears (goes out of scope, is deleted expl?citly,
>etc).  BUT, you can't force the __del__ method to be called,
>it's an implementation detail that depends on the memory
>management scaffolding in place.
>
>For example.  In CPython, memory management is done via
>reference counting; when the refcount of an object drops
>to zero, it's immediately destructed and deallocated; BUT,
>in Jython, memory management is done via Java's machinery,
>and there is no assurement of *when*, or *if*, the
>destructor is going to be called on the object.
>
>So, for sanity's sake, use a .close() method, or a .done(),
>or something like that, to explicitly close your connection
>to your SMTP server, so you won't have to depend on __del__
>doing it for you.
>
>Python doesn't have the fixed semantics for destructor 
>invocation that C++ has, so you have to take that into account
>when designing your software.
>
>HTH
>
>-gustavo
>
>pd: TGIF!
>  
>

-- 
*John Abel
Systems Administrator *
PA News Limited
www.pa.press.net <http://www.pa.press.net>
E-Mail address: john.abel at pa.press.net <mailto:john.abel at pa.press.net>
Telephone Number : 01430 455553
Fax Number : 0870 1240192
Mobile Number : 07971 611356
The Bishop's Manor, Market Place, Howden, DN14 7BL
PA News Limited, 292 Vauxhall Bridge Road, London SW1V 1AE. Registered 
in England No. 3891053.




From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 26 12:38:17 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:38:17 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org> <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <m28yzgz0wr.fsf@localhost.bris.ac.uk>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:

> In the case of reduce:
> 
>   sum = reduce(operator.add, valueList)
> 
> How is that expressed any better with a list comprension?

It's not.  It's better expressed as a for loop, though.  The for loop
might well be quicker, too (cue Alex proving me wrong :).

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  In many ways, it's a dull language, borrowing solid old concepts
  from many other languages & styles:  boring syntax, unsurprising
  semantics, few  automatic coercions, etc etc.  But that's one of
  the things I like about it.                 -- Tim Peters, 16 Sep 93


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 12 13:55:25 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:55:25 -0600
Subject: Optimisation problem
In-Reply-To: <1037125844.10171.14.camel@wintermute.atriaky.sk>
References: <mailman.1037087175.5506.python-list@python.org>
        <7h3heem23ju.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
        <1037125844.10171.14.camel@wintermute.atriaky.sk>
Message-ID: <15825.20125.371951.589652@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    gabor> x,y = 2,4 
    gabor> creates a tuple?

    gabor> i thought thatr x,y=2,4 is the same as x=2;y=4

Semantically, yes, it's the same, however, it makes an intermediate tuple of
the rhs in the process of performing the assignment.  The "dis" module is
your friend here:

    >>> import dis
    >>> def f(a,b):
    ...   c,d = a,b
    ... 
    >>> dis.dis(f)
      2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
                  3 LOAD_FAST                1 (b)
                  6 BUILD_TUPLE              2
                  9 UNPACK_SEQUENCE          2
                 12 STORE_FAST               2 (c)
                 15 STORE_FAST               3 (d)
                 18 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
                 21 RETURN_VALUE        

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Nov  9 14:25:08 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:25:08 +0100
Subject: indexed looping, functional replacement?
References: <3fe406f0.0211091037.2795e538@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqjngv$mog$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 9 Nov 2002 10:37:15 -0800, bushbo at attbi.com (Brian O. Bush) wrote:

>I would like a simpler approach to avoid having to manually maintain
>an index, maybe functional if possible.

[f(a) for  f, a in zip([f1, f2, f3], ["bbb", "sdf", "sdw"])]

Regards,
	Anton.



From Padraig at Linux.ie  Fri Nov 22 09:53:30 2002
From: Padraig at Linux.ie (Padraig Brady)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:53:30 GMT
Subject: int() shortcoming?
References: <y8h3cptpttf.fsf@spinetta.mcs.anl.gov> <3DDE4274.3070902@Linux.ie>
Message-ID: <KxrD9.13487$cP3.25017@news.iol.ie>

Padraig Brady wrote:
> Matthew Knepley wrote:
> 
>>        Is there a reason I should have to specify the base for a string
>> conversion using int() when it is already clear from the form? For 
>> instance:
>>
>>>>> oct(15)
>>>>
>> '017'
>>
>>>>> int('017')
>>>>
>> 17
>>
>>>>> int('017', 8)
>>>>
>> 15
>>
>> and hexidecimal actually generates an error.
> 
> I agree with you somewhat.
> I think int() be default should behave like strtol(nptr, (char **)NULL, 0)
> rather than strtol(nptr, (char **)NULL, 10);
> However this is not backwards compatible.
> I.E. int('017') would give a different answer.
> 
> see also:
> http://tardis.redbrick.dcu.ie/391/groups.google.com

I should also mention you can also run eval on the string
first to get the functionality you want + extra functionality, like:

int(eval("1.2"))
int(eval("1e3"))
int(eval("1L"))

P?draig.



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov  1 20:50:59 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:50:59 -0800
Subject: Textbooks on Perl/Python
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DC32F83.8990DEC9@alcyone.com>

Jalab wrote:

> Any help in finding a university level textbook on the subject of
> "Scripting languages" I am mainly looking for a book that covers Perl
> and Python only as the 2 main scripting languages and that is written
> for students, i.e. chapter summary, exercises, etc. I hate to force my
> student to buy and study from two separate books.

I doubt you'll find one that will really cover both subjects adequately,
since they're totally different languages.  The only thing I can think
of that comes close is the "little language" books, that give a brief
summary of a wide variety of "little," high-level languages.  The one
I'm familiar with (though I don't own it) is _HPL: Little Languages and
Tools_ by Salus (editor).

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Things are as they are because they were as they were.
\__/ Thomas Gold
    Bosskey.net: Return to Wolfenstein / http://www.bosskey.net/rtcw/
 A personal guide to Return to Castle Wolfenstein.


From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Nov  2 06:06:50 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 13:06:50 +0200
Subject: Sending null byte to serial port in Windows using PySerial?
References: <49f4e27a.0211010930.56788863@posting.google.com> <Xns92B9ECB73A675cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <49f4e27a.0211020033.6d7b66ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92BA8590BAFF4cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

sundae1888 at hotmail.com (sundae) wrote in
news:49f4e27a.0211020033.6d7b66ac at posting.google.com: 
>> > com = serial.Serial("COM1", 9600, timeout=1)
>> > com.write(chr(0))
> So that *is* the way to send a null byte?  I was wondering if I
> screwed up there (and/or that WriteFile() doesn't support null byte).

yes if you have a longer string with other data you can also insert a null 
byte with "\0" or "\x00" etc. it's all the same.

> Since it's easier to test case (b), my question is, would inWaiting()
> detect a byte even if the timeout is too fast?

inWaiting() return the number of characters in the buffer that the OS has. 
characters disapear from the buffer if you read them or if you flush the 
buffer. so yes, if your read() call would return too fast and characters 
arrived after that and then you did a inWaiting() it should return a 
nonzero value.

chris
-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Wed Nov 13 10:44:16 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 15:44:16 GMT
Subject: calendar modules
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk>
Message-ID: <slrnat4sfj.19g.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000 at sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk>, Geiger Ho wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>   Wondering around the modules, I find that "calendar" does not function
> well in MS Windows. When I type "calendar.month(2002,11)", it outputs a
> string
> 
> '    November 2002\nMo Tu We Th Fr Sa Su\n             1  2  3\n 4  5  6
> 7  8  9 10\n11 12 13 14 15 16 17\n18 19 20 21 22 23 24\n25 26 27 28 29
> 30\n'
> 
> but rather in proper formating.

Try "print calendar.month(2002, 11)" instead of the implicit repr that's called
in your case.

> This seems calendar module is not platform

It is.
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From theo345 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 19 04:07:47 2002
From: theo345 at hotmail.com (Theo Brenningerer)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:07:47 +0100
Subject: something like apache DBI ?
Message-ID: <W9nC9.5$NF.437@news.ecrc.de>

hello
is there something like Apache DBI (as for modperl) for Python?
I couldn't find anything on the web

thanks




From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov 23 01:25:33 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:25:33 -0800
Subject: int() shortcoming?
References: <y8h3cptpttf.fsf@spinetta.mcs.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <3DDF1F5D.F4FC9A88@alcyone.com>

Matthew Knepley wrote:

>        Is there a reason I should have to specify the base for a
> string
> conversion using int() when it is already clear from the form? For
> instance:
> 
> >>> oct(15)
> '017'
> >>> int('017')
> 17
> >>> int('017', 8)
> 15
> 
> and hexidecimal actually generates an error.

You can pass 0 in as the radix to int and it will automatically
determine the base.  Clever, huh?

>>> int('017', 0)
15
>>> int('0x17', 0)
23

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The little I know, I owe to my ignorance.
\__/ Sacha Guitry
    Bosskey.net: Counter-Strike / http://www.bosskey.net/cs/
 A personal guide to Counter-Strike.


From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  8 14:14:03 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:14:03 -0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <20021108.115059.1034949299.9010@cybermesa.com>
Message-ID: <uso37rcegqdpf6@corp.supernews.com>

In article <20021108.115059.1034949299.9010 at cybermesa.com>,
Jay O'Connor <joconnor at cybermesa.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Yes, I was a Python advocate in a TCL shop for awhile and had a hard
>time convincing
>people that there was a qualitative difference between.
>
>set x [lindex [lindex $var 5] 5]
>
>and 
>
>x = var[5][5]
			.
			.
			.
Tcl has definite problems that are close to what this
example expresses.  Somebody's tilting the idiomatic
playing field, though; the experienced Tcl-ers I know
would write
  set x $var(5,5)
rather than deal with the monstrosity above.

What makes Tcl look bad is
  set rounded [expr int(a + 0.5)]
vs.
  rounded = int(a + 0.5)
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From markusjais at yahoo.de  Thu Nov 21 06:09:05 2002
From: markusjais at yahoo.de (Markus Jais)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:09:05 +0100
Subject: gui
References: <mailman.1037874211.22290.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x73D9.1$bm5.142@news.ecrc.de>

Ryan oberto wrote:

> 
> hey all
> 
> i have just installed my firs python trying to learn it now
> is there a gui for it or must i just you the command line

Hola

one thing you can use is Idle
http://www.python.org/idle/

markus





From quadric at primenet.com  Tue Nov  5 17:33:21 2002
From: quadric at primenet.com (quadric at primenet.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:33:21 -0700
Subject: ** URGENT ** Obtaining global and local dict's for current
  interpreter using C API
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021105150907.01a34c88@pop3.norton.antivirus>

Hi,

I am new to Python but an experienced C++ programmer familiar with 
scripting etc..... and
very excited about Python.  I have successfully embedded/extended it and am 
attempting
to execute Python source from a variety of sources.  I have looked through 
all my Python books
for an answers to the following questions and can find none ( at least not 
yet ).

Can someone please help? I'm sure this is incredibly simple, I'm just a bit 
new at it.

I'm using the latest build (2.2.2) and programming using MS Visual C++ 6.0
( no flame from UNIX/Linux guys please ).


Question(s):

How , and using which C API functions, do you acquire the PyObject * to the 
dictionaries
( both local and global) of the current interpreter.  I AM NOT looking for 
the dictionary of an
imported module, but rather the dictionary of the current interpreter.  You 
know, the one
you get when executing  'dir()'  in the interpreter window.

The C API docs say to do the following:

PyObject * pdict = PyObject_Dir(NULL);

and , assuming an execution frame is active, should return the dictionary.

1>	What is an execution frame?
2>	How do I know if an execution frame is active?
3> 	I've tried this and only get NULL in return, indicating the absence of 
an active
	execution frame, I guess?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My code looks similar to this:

PyObject * pres = NULL , * pdict = NULL;
int  result = 0;

Py_Initialize();

pdict = PyObject_Dir(NULL);	// Returns a useless NULL pointer

if ( pdict != NULL )
{
	PyRun_SimpleString( "result = 4 + 5" );
	pres = PyObject_GetAttrString( pdict , "result" );	
	PyArg_Parse( pres , "i" , &result);
}


// decrement any references here

Py_Finalize();

--------------------------------------------------------------

The problem is that pdict is always NULL and I cannot retrieve values for 
variables
created within the namespace of the current interpreter by use of the 
PyRun_xxxx()
functions.



Any knowledgeable help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

quadric at primenet.com















From stuart.191 at ntlworld.com  Fri Nov  1 16:33:41 2002
From: stuart.191 at ntlworld.com (Stuart MacGregor)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 21:33:41 +0000
Subject: Tkinter in RH8.0
Message-ID: <ArCw9.2407$072.107557@newsfep2-gui>

I only use Python implicitly - it runs some nice apps like uligo, the go 
problem program.

After installing RH8 the apps find 'from Tkinter import *' does not work.  
RH 8 ships with python 2.2.1 and I have installed every shipped rpm that 
might help.

Is there some simple action to restore this behaviour - an environment 
setting perhaps, or do I need to rip out the RH rpm and replace it with a 
new build?

Cheers
-- 
Stuart


From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Wed Nov 27 19:29:40 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:29:40 GMT
Subject: More pythonic way to change an element of a tuple?
References: <as314e$c4u$2@naig.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <uloauu4stnfjeu3d40m0as70ssk4g3ug2m@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:58:44 -0800, in comp.lang.python you wrote:
(edit)
>I frequently have to change a single element of a tuple, and I wind up 
>doing something like this:

Not recommended to have something that is mutable to give a hash
value. The internal implementation of the dictionary gets confused if
a key changes.

class list_with_hash(list):
    def __hash__(self):
        return hash(tuple(self))

dict0 = {}
dict1 = {}
for i in range(10):
    dict0[list_with_hash([i])] = i
    dict1[list_with_hash([i])] = 9-i

for k in dict1.keys():
    k[0] = 9 - k[0]

print 'dict0 = %r' % (dict0)
print 'dict1 = %r' % (dict1)

for k in dict0.keys():
    try:
        v = dict0[k]
    except KeyError:
        print 'could not find key %r in dict0' % (k)
    else:
        print 'dict0[%r] = %r' % (k,v)

for k in dict1.keys():
    try:
        v = dict1[k]
    except KeyError:
        print 'could not find key %r in dict1' % (k)
    else:
        print 'dict1[%r] = %r' % (k,v)

The dictionaries 'dict0' and 'dict1' print out the same, but most of
they keys in 'dict1' just cannot be found at all.

If you change the 'list_with_hash' class to give the same hash for all
elements like this:

class list_with_hash(list):
    def __hash__(self):
        return 0

you will no longer have the problem of the dictionary not able to find
its own keys.  But now the performance of the dictionary will be
lousy:

import time

class list_with_hash0(list):
    def __hash__(self):
        return hash(tuple(self))
    
class list_with_hash1(list):
    def __hash__(self):
        return 0

t1 = time.clock()
dict0 = {}
for i in range(5000):
    dict0[list_with_hash0([i])] = i
for i in range(5000):
    x = dict0[list_with_hash0([i])]
t2 = time.clock()
print 'time for list_with_hash0: %.3f' % (t2-t1)

t1 = time.clock()
dict1 = {}
for i in range(5000):
    dict1[list_with_hash1([i])] = i
for i in range(5000):
    x = dict1[list_with_hash1([i])]
t2 = time.clock()
print 'time for list_with_hash1: %.3f' % (t2-t1)

Manuel


From andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no  Mon Nov 25 04:35:08 2002
From: andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_N=E6ss?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:35:08 +0000
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <arsqsd$3j5$1@maud.ifi.uio.no>

David Brown wrote:

> 
> "Andr? N?ss" <andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
> news:arqm0r$s6f$1 at maud.ifi.uio.no...
>> When I started learning Python one of the things that surprised me was
> that
>> you couldn't do assignments inside the if clause, e.g.:
>>
>> if myvar = someFunction():
>>
>> My question is, what is the rationale for this? Is it a technical issue?
> Or
>> purely a matter of language design? I'm curious because I'm interested in
>> the design og programming languages, not because I want this behavior
>> changed in Pyton :)
>>
> 
> My guess is that the languages you are most familiar with are C and C++.

Java and PHP, actually, but that obviously doesn't make much of a difference 
:)

> The question should not be "why doesn't Python support 'if myvar =
> someFunc()'?", but "why *does* C support 'if (myvar = someFunc())' ?"  The
> answer is that C was designed with the sole aim of reducing keystrokes for
> the programmer, regardless of its effect on program readability and
> correctness.  

I've always felt one should use := as the assigment operator, and then = can 
be used as the equality operator.

But having read the thread I found on this subject I at least understood 
that in Python you will very rarely need this sort of thing, when I ran 
into this problem it was because I was thinking C-style. Now it's gonna be 
interesting to see if I ever run into a situation where I'd feel most 
comfortable doing an if <assignment>:, knowing that there are usually 
better ways of solving the problem.

Andr? N?ss


From jorgencederberg at hotmail.com  Fri Nov  1 06:55:31 2002
From: jorgencederberg at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Cederberg?=)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:55:31 +0100
Subject: problem with calendar
References: <mailman.1036148287.8559.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VYtw9.40$132.992@news.get2net.dk>

"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message news:mailman.1036148287.8559.python-list at python.org...
> 
> I have the following problem:
> 
> Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 18 2002, 11:40:02)
> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-110)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import calendar
> >>> calendar.month_abbr
> <calendar._localized_month instance at 0x8164a5c>
> >>> calendar.month_abbr()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: _localized_month instance has no __call__ method
> 
> What's up?

calendar.month_abbr is an instance of a _localized_month class and thus not callable because it does not have a __call__ method as the Traceback states. A dir-command reveals that it has a __getitem__ method. Example:

>>> calendar.month_abbr[1]
'Jan'

Sincerely yours 
Jorgen



> 
> Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
> -- 
>  - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not to mailto:aaro at onego.ru
> 
> 


From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov  6 06:32:34 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:32:34 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <7h33cqf0wd8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:

> Some years back, RMS proposed a standard 'scripting' language called
> Guile.  See, various languages like Tcl, Perl, Python, etc. were
> being developed and none of them were 1) developed under the FSF nor
> 2) a variation of Scheme.  (A simplified and perhaps biased
> interpretation of mine.)

I've never seen any even perceived advantages of guile other than the
FSF thing.  I don't get the impression that it is that great even as a
scheme implementation.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  We've had a lot of problems going from glibc 2.0 to glibc 2.1.
  People claim binary compatibility.  Except for functions they
  don't like.                       -- Peter Van Eynde, comp.lang.lisp


From claird at lairds.com  Thu Nov 21 09:11:08 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:11:08 -0000
Subject: gui
References: <mailman.1037874211.22290.python-list@python.org> <x73D9.1$bm5.142@news.ecrc.de>
Message-ID: <utpqbsg2fdpm50@corp.supernews.com>

In article <x73D9.1$bm5.142 at news.ecrc.de>,
Markus Jais  <markusjais at yahoo.de> wrote:
>Ryan oberto wrote:
>
>> 
>> hey all
>> 
>> i have just installed my firs python trying to learn it now
>> is there a gui for it or must i just you the command line
>
>Hola
>
>one thing you can use is Idle
>http://www.python.org/idle/
			.
			.
			.
The original question is ambiguous; in either of its readings,
though, the answer is, "Yes".  Yes, there are at least a half-
dozen worthy IDEs for working with Python, including Idle, and,
yes, Python builds in capabilities for development of applica-
tions with graphical user interfaces (GUI).  Tkinter is the
most natural starting point in the latter regard, although,
again, there is a variety of choices, each of which enjoys
fervent favor among at least some Pythoneers.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From costanza at web.de  Sun Nov 24 20:25:15 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:25:15 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <mailman.1037993694.2261.python-list@python.org> <arm9oa$but$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <6qyD9.60432$Yw.2729711@news2.tin.it> <armdko$jgb$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <KsLD9.44802$744.1610007@news1.tin.it> <arrhh6$hur$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <d9dE9.68529$Yw.3238316@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <arru5q$cl5$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Pascal Costanza wrote:
>    ...
> 
>>>>I mean, Python is already more advanced than Java.
>>>
>>>Oh, I agree with this, but that's not the point.
>>
>>Er, I have thought that's exactly the point. What do you need a
>>backstage language for that is less powerful than the frontstage
>>language?
> 
> 
> The first Lisp interpreter was coded in machine language.  The first Python 
> interpreter was coded in C.  Examples could easily be multiplied.  The 
> lower-level, faster language is often used as the "backstage" (not a term
> I'm familiar with, but I think I'm interpreting your meaning correctly).  I 
> think (not sure) that the first Prolog interpreter was coded in Lisp, 
> presumably with similar intentions.  So, I'm not quite sure what your 
> question is meant as -- rhetorical, perhaps?

No, my question is not meant as a rhetorical one. I am a little bit 
confused because I believe I have made it clear what I am talking about 
- obviously not. Hm.

Languages like C and assembler are more powerful than, say, Python 
because they allow you to circumvent type restrictions and fiddle with 
the operating system level.

Common Lisp is more powerful than Python because it has the code=data 
feature that allows you to create new language features and some 
sophisticated and efficient algorithms.

Languages like Python, Ruby, Lua and so on make use of C as a 
"backstage" language in order to expand their possibilities. I believe 
that they could also benefit from Common Lisp as a backstage language.

So my mental model is as follows: Scripting languages allow you to 
solve, say, 90% of the problems in straightforward and simple ways. 
However, some problems are complicated or demanding enough that you (or 
"someone";) needs to revert to the more powerful backstage language.

I don't see how Java can play this role for Python because Java neither 
allows you to fiddle with the machine level nor allows for writing 
complicated algorithms, at least not when compared to Python.

Or is there something I miss?

>>(I guess that Jython is useful to take advantage of the Java
>>APIs and its platform independence.)
> 
> 
> That's a typical reason to choose Jython rather than CPython, yes -- being 
> able to take advantage of existing Java-coded libraries (including the APIs 
> of the various Java-based standards), and/or of platforms able to run Java 
> bytecode (including various JVMs).

Are there other reasons?


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 19 20:07:57 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 01:07:57 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <areli6$ris$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <slrnatlo5h.r3b.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <areli6$ris$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:

>==== from an old win32 help file that may have come with an old version of Delphi ?? ======
> 
>   If the overlapped operation cannot be completed immediately, the function returns FALSE and
>   the GetLastError function returns ERROR_IO_PENDING, indicating that the operation is executing
>   in the background. When this happens, the system sets the hEvent member of the OVERLAPPED
>   structure to the not-signaled state before WaitCommEvent returns, and then it sets it to the
>   signaled state when one of the specified events or an error occurs. The calling process can
>                                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>   use a wait function to determine the event object's state and then use the GetOverlappedResult
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   function to determine the results of the WaitCommEvent operation. GetOverlappedResult reports
>                                                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   the success or failure of the operation, and the variable pointed to by the lpfdwEvtMask
>                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   parameter is set to indicate the event that occurred. 
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
>   If a process attempts to change the device handle's event mask by using the SetCommMask
>   function while an overlapped WaitCommEvent operation is in progress, WaitCommEvent returns
>   immediately. The variable pointed to by the lpfdwEvtMask parameter is set to zero. 
> 
>==========================================
> 
> Sounds like the mask location is safe if you don't call
> GetOverlappedResult??

I sure don't know.  I've found examples that don't call GetOverlappedResult
and they expect a "delayed" write to *lpfdwEvtMask happen.

And I thought it impossible for me to grow to hate Windows even more...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  YOW!! Now I
                                  at               understand advanced
                               visi.com            MICROBIOLOGY and th' new
                                                   TAX REFORM laws!!


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Nov 11 03:31:26 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 09:31:26 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <aqmj2e$k0g$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <tyfznsgzew1.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Would you care to elaborate a bit? I'm honestly interested.

Sure, but I have approximately 0 time at the moment. If you want to me
to give any more details than I do, you will probably have to wait a
week or so ...

> Please keep in mind that I:
> 
> - know next to zero about lisp
> - have a pretty solid scientific computing background (I see you're
>   from CERN, I do lattice qcd).
> 
> So please be gentle on the lisp, which is what I'm interested in
> learning about, but don't pull any punches on the numerics. I want
> to know _specifically_ what kinds of transformations you were able
> to perform to enhance the performance of your numerical code.

First of all, let me say that I did nothing that I could not have done
by hand, except that given the number of (complicated) functions
involved, it would have taken a long time to do it that way, and I
would, undoubtedly have made many mistakes along the way. The macro
let me do this quickly and confidently ... and if anyone gives me such
a bunch of functions again, I can apply the optimization instantly.

Here goes ...

Mostly, we were interested in "the big function". This was built out
of calls to other functions, which were, in turn made up out of calls
to other functions etc.

Now, it was clear that the "auxiliary" functions were being called
very many times, with the same arguments, each time "the big function"
was being calculated. Memoizing would have been one obvious approach,
but I knew that at least one argument of "the big function" (TBF) was
monotonically increasing throughout my run ... so the memo would
mostly contain values which I knew I was never going to need again.

So I used the following caching scheme.

- Get the macro to collect all the names of the functions used in
  calculating TBF, by extracting them from the function definitions.

- Create cache variable names corresponding to those function names
  (Lisp separates namespaces for values and functions, so these names
  could be identical to the function names)

- Create new functons by replacing all calls to the cached functions
  with references to the cached variables.

- I made the new-cache referencing functons closures over the shared
  cached values, just to keep the latter from interfering with
  anything else, but that's a minor detail.

As I said, not really profound, but for a quick hack the result was
really satisfying.

I can imagine that you could put """ """ around your Python
definitions, do something similar by processing the resulting string,
and then eval it ... but it sounds far too painful to try.

> I have a question for you (keeping in mind what I said above about
> my background in HEP, moving these days towards algorithm
> development). Could you try to outline what things someone like me
> would benefit from in Lisp?

> I'd very much appreciate an overview of this by you or anyone else
> with a good lisp background.

I would not consider myself to have a "good lisp background". But I'd
be happy to try to make constructive suggestions, and maybe give you
some pointers ... but please allow me to postpone this for a week or
so, as I would not be able to make a sensible contribution with my
current time constraints.

Jacek.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 28 20:20:57 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:20:57 -0500
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list@python.org> <3DE59E73.4040908@something.invalid> <as5ugi$a48$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <TcqdnSvLJ5ZGXXugXTWcow@comcast.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:as5ugi$a48$0 at 216.39.172.122...
>  >>> def foo(x): print x
>  ...
>  >>> bar = foo.__get__('Hi via foo')
>  >>> bar()
>  Hi via foo

This is a new one for me:

>>> def f(): pass
...
>>> f.__get__
<method-wrapper object at 0x015197B0>
>>> f.__get__.__doc__
'descr.__get__(obj[, type]) -> value'

Seems to be a new, undocumented (?, not in indexes) method producing a
new, undocumented (?) internal type.  Not something to bank a product
on ;-)

Terry J. Reedy




From costanza at web.de  Thu Nov 21 12:03:48 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:03:48 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> It is true that you can read the Python tutorial in couple of hours,
> "understand" most of it and start immediately programming in Python.
[...]
> It takes a much longer time to become to *think* in Python. I started 
> six months ago and I am still in the process of adapting my way of 
> thinking to the language. This is much harder than adapting the language 
> to your way of thinking. But eventually you must do it if you really 
> want to understand the language.

Could you try to describe what it means to you to think in Python? What 
makes it different from thinking in other languages? (This is not a 
rhetorical question!)

> Final thought: different persons have different way of thinking.
> Different programming languages have different philosophies. It is not
> strange at all that when you find a language that fits you mind, it is
> *for you* much easier to learn than other languages.

Good point!


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Nov 22 14:33:12 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:33:12 -0500
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org>
 <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
 <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com>
 <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
 <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
 <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
 <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org>
 <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com>
 <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
 <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com>
 <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de>
Message-ID: <4Zo39kKkXYZf092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> wrote previously:
|I would like to know more specifically what features make Python
|special to you. As Kenny put it, in what regards is Pythonthink
|different from Otherlangthink?

I think studying the -Zen of Python- is an excellent start for an answer.
And after that, it is an excellent intermediary.

One feature that is not directly a single one of the lines in -Zen- is
the openness of Python.  When I write Python code, I know at every
moment that I could "step behind the scenes" if I wanted to.  Attributes
are not kept away from me, although the underscore conventions make
recommendations I usually obey; the magic methods are available to
change how objects respond to operators, but I know not to do that most
of the time; functions are first class, and basic FP techniques are
available, but only to be used when procedural code is not as
straightforward; and so on.  Python is not at all a
bondage-and-discipline language.

On the other hand, Python still maintains an obvious distinction (to
keep my metaphor) between what is "in the scene" and what is behind it.
With a language like CL, I feel overwhelmed by the feeling of having to
understand -everything- that I -could- do at every moment I do one
particular thing.  The S-expressions, for example, make it painfully
obvious -exactly- what the program is actually doing.  It has no
comfortable level of abstraction where I can pretend I'm living in this
safe and simple world when I just want to write a loop or a conditional
test.

At the other end, Assembly--or C too to a large extent--bring me into
the world of the machine.  I have to think about memory allocation, and
stacks, and pointers, and all sorts of low-level details that have
nothing to do with the problem *I* want to be solving.  You can get
behind the scenes easily with these, but they're the wrong scenes...  I
don't want to poke into the machine, I want to poke into the language.

Of course, all of these are in contrast to a monstrosity like Visual
Basic.  It is bad enough at the language level, where you are handed a
set of high-level abstractions that are both clumsy and inflexible.  You
can't ever step behind these... except in the sense of learning a whole
different language (C/C++/C#) and an unwieldy API (WinAPI/COM/NET/...).
But the way "programmers" actually work in VB is even worse... drag some
widgets around at random, and hope that everything mysteriously works
despite the fact you have no idea what it is doing.

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@  _/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: \_\_\_\_    n o
gnosis  _/_/             Postmodern Enterprises            \_\_
.cx    _/_/                                                 \_\_  d o
      _/_/_/ IN A WORLD W/O WALLS, THERE WOULD BE NO GATES \_\_\_ z e




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 12 16:03:43 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:03:43 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de> <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <3DD0D765.3030907@web.de>
Message-ID: <3DD16CAF.41214BBA@alcyone.com>

Pascal Costanza wrote:

> You're right, but I wanted to avoid to explain the difference between
> '
> and #'. These examples are only meant to give a first taste of Lisp.

Note that for "first tastes," Scheme is probably a better introduction
(if you're only learning Lisp-like languages for their own sake, that
is, rather than trying to learn a language skill you want to sell). 
Scheme doesn't have this distinction between a symbol and the function
associated with it, so there's no distinction between ' and #'.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If a thing is worth doing, then it is worth doing badly.
\__/ G.K. Chesterton
    ZOE / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/zoe/
 A simple Python OpenGL rendering engine.


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Mon Nov  4 16:50:26 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:50:26 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb and threads
References: <aq69sk$8tb$1@norfair.nerim.net> <wzlm496ps2.fsf@cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <aq6p4q$lmd$1@norfair.nerim.net>

> >>>>> "Gillou" <nospam at bigfoot.com> (G) writes:
>
> G> Hi,
> G> I plan to make SQL queries in different threads of an application using
> G> MySQLdb.
> G> Can I use the same Connection object in all threads (each thread having
its
> G> own cursor) for the queries ? Or should I use a different Connection
object
> G> for each thread ?
>
> The doc says:
>

[SNIP]

> For threaded applications, try using a connection pool. This can be done
> using the Pool module.

Many thanks Piet for this enlightenment,

Where did you find the Pool module you're writing of ?
I didn't find it in the standard Python distro (2.1.3) nor with google.

Cheers

--Gilles


>
> --
> Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
> URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
> Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl




From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Sun Nov 24 11:15:39 2002
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:15:39 +0100
Subject: ANN: Eric 3.0.0-alpha2 released
Message-ID: <bvtqra-lfh.ln@majestix.gallien.de>

Hi,

Eric 3.0.0-alpha2 is available for download via

http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html

What is it?
-----------
Eric 3.0.0 (or short eric3) is a Python IDE written using PyQt and 
QScintilla. It has integrated project management capabilities, it gives 
you an unlimited number of editors, an integrated Python shell, an 
integrated debugger and more.

Please see for yourself by visiting the a.m. page (it contains a picture 
of Eric our mascot as well).

Please report bugs, feature wishes or code contributions to 
eric-bugs at die-offenbachs.de

Help wanted!!
-------------
I would need some support in the area of more translations and user 
documentation. Any volunteers out there? Just let me know.

Regards,
Detlev
-- 
Detlev Offenbach
detlev at die-offenbachs.de


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 21 12:44:41 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 17:44:41 GMT
Subject: Read-only attributes using properties?
References: <82c04a2.0211210527.4d1a4393@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <arj629$ipj$0@216.39.172.122>

On 21 Nov 2002 05:27:55 -0800, wolfoxbr at hotmail.com (Roberto Amorim) wrote:

>I was thinking about trying to use the new properties on Python 2.2 to
>implement read-only attributes. So I tried the following:
>
>class MyException(Exception):
>	pass
>
>class TProp(object):
>	def __init__(self):
>		self.a = 0
>	def get_a(self):
>		return self.a
>	def set_a(self, v):
>		raise MyException
>	a = property(get_a, set_a, None, "Test a")
>
>t = TProp()
>print t.a
>t.a = 5
>
>I was expecting that the script would fail with an exception on the
>"t.a = 5" command. However, I was surprised to see the code fail on
>the attribution inside __init__ - that is, there is no "inner class
>scope", or direct access within the class itself, and no clear way to
>initialize the property. If the property is an alias to the real
>internal variable (call it size, for instance), it works, but then if
>I try to add a __slots__ list excluding the internal var and only
>adding the external reference (__slots__=("a")) it stops working
>again.
>
>Is there any other way to do that?
>
If by "that" you mean implementing a read-only property, just leave out the "write":

 >>> class TProp(object):
 ...     def __init__(self):
 ...             self._a = 0
 ...     def get_a(self):
 ...             return self._a
 ...     a = property(get_a, None, None, "Test a")
 ...

(I.e., just omit set_a and specify None in the corresponding property arg)

 >>> t = TProp()
 >>> print t.a
 0
 >>> t.a = 5
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: can't set attribute

However, Python doesn't shut you out totally:

 >>> t._a = 5
 >>> print t.a
 5

You need a separate name for the actual data, because the property action triggers by way
of finding the property name as a class attribute when looking it up via an instance.

BTW, looking it up directly gets you the property object itself without triggering its action:

 >>> TProp.a
 <property object at 0x007AA470>


To illustrate further(I think this is ok, but I'm not sure if it's frowned upon):

 >>> TProp.b = property(lambda self: self._b, None, None, None)
 >>> t._b = 'aha'
 >>> t.b
 'aha'

 >>> t.b = 'oho'
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: can't set attribute

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru  Fri Nov 15 05:50:17 2002
From: zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru (Lexy Zhitenev)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:50:17 +0300
Subject: socket.error __del__
References: <ce0b6758.0211141634.2a492d6a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ar2jh9$mo$1@serv.vrn.ru>

> I'm using a TCP threading socket server and I get this error
>
> Exception socket.error: (10054, 'Connect reset by peer') in <bound
> method _fileobject.__del__ of <socket._fileobject instance at
> 0x0089CED8>> ignored

AFAIK, this happens because socket is already closed by your client.

When socket object is destroyed, it tries to close the connection, but this
operation failes, because your peer - client has already closed the
connection, or the client socket has failed (e.g. for power failure, or
computer reboot or smth else).




From sanzio2001 at hanmail.net  Tue Nov  5 23:51:19 2002
From: sanzio2001 at hanmail.net (Kong Hyeog Jun)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 20:51:19 -0800
Subject: transmission problem at the requested offset
Message-ID: <ee6c47ba.0211052051.66c21cf6@posting.google.com>

Hi! i had tried to implement the way that the server restarts sending
the file's bytes at the requested offset.
i wrote the following code. but this code didn't work well.
when i typed "a", it didn't perform "Append" operation at the
requested offset "rest"
but it performed "Overwrite" oeration. that is, Append operation is
not implemented.

i don't know what should i do.
anybody can give me any hints?

Thanks.
(sorry, i can not write english as well. my mother language is not
english)

--------------------------------------------------
def do_getFile(self, tar):
	self.do_size(tar)  # it is used to assign the file size of the 
	                   # given "tar" on local host to "self.file_size"
	self.ftp.voidcmd("TYPE I")
	rest = str(os.path.getsize(tar))
	while 1:
		res = string.lower(raw_input("(O)verWrite/(A)ppend/(P)ass ?"))
		if res == "o":
			print 2
			f = file(tar,"w")
			conn = self.ftp.transfercmd("RETR "+tar)
			break
		elif res == "a":
			print 1,rest
			f = file(tar,"a")
			conn = self.ftp.transfercmd("RETR "+tar, rest)
			print 3            			
			break
		elif res == "p":
			return
	flen = 0
	while 1:
		block = conn.recv(8192)
		if len(block) == 0:
			break
		flen = flen + len(block)
		f.write(block)
		print "\r%s downloading :%10dbytes/%sbytes  %5d%%" % (tar,flen ,
self.file_size,int((flen/float(self.file_size))*100)),
	print "\r%s : Downloaded  :%10dKB/%sKB" % (tar,flen, self.file_size)
	conn.close()
	self.ftp.voidresp()
	self.file_size = 0
--------------------------------------------------


From rmunn at pobox.com  Mon Nov 11 02:38:05 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:38:05 GMT
Subject: Question about drawing simple graph in Python?
References: <20021108044701.4273.94217.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1036982475.10151.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasunrc.l14.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Patrick Surry <Patrick.Surry at quadstone.com> wrote:
> I don't know of a specific module for this, but there's a nice package called
> graphviz (google will find it, I'm offline) which includes tools for rendering

For the record (and the archives), graphviz can be found at:

    http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/graphviz/

and/or:

    http://www.graphviz.org/

One is the official AT&T research site, the other the development site.
Please note that I have nothing to do with this project, so don't ask me
any questions about it. I just thought it would be nice if the URL's
showed up in the thread for the sake of anyone reading the archives
later.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov  9 17:58:04 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:58:04 -0500
Subject: none - output
References: <1036864302.150371@news.liwest.at>
Message-ID: <Odecnaqs_olkD1CgXTWcrg@comcast.com>

"Christian Stockhammer"
<christian.stockhammer at students.uni-linz.ac.at> wrote in message
news:1036864302.150371 at news.liwest.at...
> Hello List!

Hello Christian

> I wrote a litte program that will print out the rates of a credit,
but i
> face some problems. Here is the code:
>
> schuld = 100000.0
>
> zinsfaktor = 5.0
>
> tilgung = 20000.0
>
> def tilgungsplan(schuld, zinsfaktor, tilgung):

Guessing payment plan, principle, interest%, payment

> print "Periode Restschuld Zinsen Tilgung"
>
> for i in range(0,5):
>
> zinsen = (schuld*zinsfaktor)/100

Divide %interest by 100 once before loop

> echtetilgung=tilgung-zinsen
>
> i = i + 1

This should almost certainly not be here.  I is automatically
incremented.
Perhaps you want range(1,6)?

> schuld = schuld - echtetilgung
>
> print i," "," ", schuld," ", zinsen," ", echtetilgung

Just so you know, tabs in newsgroup articles disappear for some
readers.  If you want everyone to to read your code without guessing,
use spaces.

> print tilgungsplan(schuld, zinsfaktor, tilgung)

This is your problem.  If you do not specify  return value, Python
functions return None (the object named None with value None).  Remove
'print ' and all will be better.  Or have function return a value

> print "Restzahlung: ", schuld

> None
> My problem is that the "None" (I do not know how to avoid this
output!)

See above.

> and  the value for "Restzahlung" (how much is still left to pay) is
not correct!

Can't say why for sure without seeing your indentation. Try without
i=i+1.


Terry J. Reedy




From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov 27 05:35:55 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:35:55 GMT
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
References: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <7h3r8d7qp6g.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Steven Rumbalski <srumbalski at prodigy.net> writes:

> In python I can write:
> 
> a, b = i, j
> 
> but the following is not legal:
> 
> a, b += i, j
> 
> Is there a reason that allowing this would be bad?

Well, as others have said it's not totally clear what it does (though
I thought it pretty obvious what you meant).

> Why does Python forbid this?

It would probably be a swine to implement, for one thing...  I did the
grammar hacks for augmented assignment back in 2000 and allowing this
didn't even occur to me.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  : Giant screaming pieces of excrement, they are.
  I have a feeling that some of the people in here have a 
  MUCH more exciting time relieving themselves than I do.
                                       -- Mike Sphar & Dave Brown, asr


From jb at cascade-sys.com  Thu Nov 14 23:25:32 2002
From: jb at cascade-sys.com (James J. Besemer)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:25:32 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <4STA9.9987$744.345722@news1.tin.it> <jc58tugirbnbtn1i7e2kf7of4l3ltt665e@4ax.com> <mailman.1037315122.20415.python-list@python.org> <3DD44152.69795B9F@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3DD4773C.80004@cascade-sys.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
> I think what's making the difference here is the quality/depth of the
> reference guides, not the actual languages.  A "C/C++" reference that is
> a total of 16 pages simply not comparable to a Python reference that is
> 124 pages.  C and C++ (two different languages, by the way) are not
> about 8 times simpler than Python.  Far from it, in fact.

I don't disagree with anything you say.  A fairer comparison might be the 1.5 
Python pocket ref and the one for Perl 5.  There it's 74 vs. 48 pages.  The 
Python ref is newer, a LITTLE bit more verbose and arguably covers a LITTLE 
more library code (though that's unfair to Perl, which includes a lot of what 
should be library functions in the base language).  If you actually look 
through the two booklets, it is evident that it is not an entirely unfair 
comparison on a gross level.  I view it as circumstantial evidence that 
Python and Perl5 are comparable in power and capability (though Python is 
much more easy to learn and understand).

In any case, I agree Pocket reference guides are at best a poor metric for 
comparing language complexity.   I only mentioned the others because Mr. 
Garcia cited it as evidence that Python is "small" and I offered what were 
intended to be seen as counter examples.

My main point was to disagree with the notion that Python itself is "small".

I think the deceptive thing is that Python omits the declarative syntax which 
is standard with static typed languages.  Take away the declarative syntax 
from C++ and compare what's left to what you can do in Python and in Python 
there's a lot more meat to choose from.  Yeah, C++ gives you arrays, 14 
flavors of fixed sized integers and 3 or 4 flavors of reals, but BFD.  It 
doesn't have true Longs, complex, lists, dictionaries or even a good string 
type to speak of, at least not as first-class objects.  Each language has 
roughly the same number of operators, although each has some not available in 
the other.  The control structures in Python are generally more powerful than 
C++s.  The several omissions from C++ (switch, goto, pointer/reference types, 
expression assignment and ++/--) were all intentional and arguably make the 
language better, not substantially smaller.

Bring back all the declarative syntax and semantics and, yes, C++ is more 
complicated.  BUt take it all back out and I submit that Python has more 
features -- more tools to apply to your problem.  Fred Brooks talks about 
'essential' and 'accidental' problems in programming.  The essential ones 
pertain to the key decisions you make about your algorithms, problem solving 
that has a direct bearing on the solution to your application.  The 
accidental problems are the attendant complexities you have to deal with in 
your programming environment in order to implement your solution; they 
unrelated to the solution itself.  I submit that Python's strength is that a 
much greater portion (most?) of it's features go directly to the "essence" of 
programming, while other languages contribute less (possess fewer 'essential' 
features) and actually add to the problem.

Regards

--jb

-- 
James J. Besemer		503-280-0838 voice
2727 NE Skidmore St.		503-280-0375 fax
Portland, Oregon 97211-6557	mailto:jb at cascade-sys.com
				http://cascade-sys.com	





From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Sat Nov 23 00:51:47 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 05:51:47 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
In-Reply-To: <3dde5e18$0$22192$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3DDD711D.2000802@skippinet.com.au> <arl9cs$k6b$0@216.39.172.122> <3dde5012$0$4491$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3dde5e18$0$22192$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <THED9.3061$hg1.6331@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> In article <3dde5012$0$4491$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>, Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
>>>I don't have win32all, but don't you need to have the
>>>OVERLAPPED struct persist as well? Isn't the event slot there
>>>also used asynchronously?
>>
>>Yes, the OVERLAPPED struct has to be persistent.  I've thought
>>about using that as storage for the comm event mask value, but
>>then we've got to add some sort of accessor function to
>>retreive it later.  The advantantage of using a 4-byte buffer
>>is that the semantics stay more similar to both the Win32
>>usage, and the way that data buffers work for overlapped
>>read/write operations:
>>
>>
>>   rc,mask = WaitCommEvent(handle,overlapped)
>>   rc = WaitForSingleObject(overlapped.hevent)
>>   whatHappened = int(mask)
> 
> 
> I should have mentioned that in the non-overlapped case, the
> returned mask value would be an integer (same as it is now).
> That way the only change is to the overlapped usage.

Actually, I don't mind the idea of attaching it to the overlapped 
object.  We already have the concept of attaching an object to an 
overlapped structure, so adding support for a generic "flags" 32 bit 
value wouldn't hurt, and 2 bytes per Python-allocated overlapped 
structure wont kill anyone.

Might be overkill if this is the only case we come across, but it 
doesn't change any semantics.  ie, the code would look like:

    rc,mask = WaitCommEvent(handle,overlapped)
    rc = WaitForSingleObject(overlapped.hevent)
    whatHappened = overlapped.flags


Also much easier for me to code ;)  Would only work for overlapped 
objects created via Python, but I think that is reasonable.  If a non 
Python overlapped structure is used, we pass the address of a static 
variable to ensure no one ever crashes.

Sound reasonable?

Mark.



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Sun Nov  3 16:14:14 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 21:14:14 GMT
Subject: Python embedded into C#, how?
References: <rM1x9.3985$mN6.1275455@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <uU6x9.4009$mN6.1306943@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Gkgx9.4104$mN6.1367715@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Brant Harris" <bharris at students.depaul.edu> wrote in message
news:uU6x9.4009$mN6.1306943 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> quote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     ... and I can't seem to actually use the COM object once it's used.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Sorry I meant, I can't seem to actually use the COM object once it is
> registered.  Use it as in, I have to reference it in C# and I can't seem
to
> find the object in its COM list.

I preface this by saying that I know nothing about C#, and I aim to keep it
that way.  In answer to this narrow question, however, not the larger one
about embedding an interpreter, my guess is that you need to use late
binding on the COM pobject.  A google search turned this up

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/1/call_com.asp

-d




From cbrown at metservice.com  Thu Nov 14 23:17:52 2002
From: cbrown at metservice.com (Colin Brown)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:17:52 +1300
Subject: Serial Port
References: <mailman.1037306122.3207.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dd47570$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net>

Hi Luca

Try PySerial - a nice multiplatform solution

Colin Brown
PyNZ




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 14 15:15:46 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:15:46 GMT
Subject: Variable names on the fly?
References: <3dd3f5fd$0$28311$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <r9u7tu8csfau7sjrpkbg85ttsjrphsec7t@4ax.com> <slrnat7vls.fq.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <SvTA9.13650$Yw.561971@news2.tin.it>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
   ...
> OTOH being able to dynamically create class attributes by writing in
> the class object's __dict__ or by overriding __getattr__ sometimes
> really helps.

Another often-helpful way to create attributes with runtime-computed
names for any object that support general arbitrary attributes (classes,
instances, functions, modules, ...) is built-in function setattr.


Alex



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Nov 21 16:25:48 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:25:48 +0000
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net> <u1iaskl2.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <vgNqPLAc9U39EwTW@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

....
>Now I'm implementing (read hacking) libffi to work under Windows so
>that I don't have to use other code here.

Using the latest Dev-C++ (mingw32 gcc based) I am able to build a
libffi.dll and using M$ LIB I also have an import libffi.lib.

I can also build a libffi.a, but I guess that's no good for Thomas'
efforts unless he uses mingw32 to build the whole extension.
-- 
Robin Becker


From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Nov  4 15:24:31 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 12:24:31 -0800
Subject: parenthesis
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com>

Suppose I want to parse the following expression:

>>> exp='(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'

I want to extract the first part, i.e. '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)'.

Now if I use a greedy regular expression

>>> import re; greedy=re.compile('\(.*\)')

I obtain to much, the full expression:

>>> match=greedy.search(exp); match.group()

'(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'

On the other hand, if I use a nongreedy regular expression

>>> nongreedy=re.compile('\(.*?\)')

I obtain too little:

>>> match=nongreedy.search(exp); match.group()

'(a*(b+c*(2-x)'

Is there a way to specify a clever regular expression able to match
the first parenthesized group  ? What I did, was to write a routine
to extract the first parenthesized group:

def parenthesized_group(exp):
    nesting_level,out=0,[]
    for c in exp:
	out.append(c)
        if c=='(': nesting_level+=1
	elif c==')': nesting_level-=1
	if nesting_level==0: break
    return ''.join(out)

>>> print parenthesized_group(exp)

(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)

Still, this seems to me not the best way to go and I would like to know
if this can be done with a regular expression. Notice that I don't need
to control all the nesting levels of the parenthesis, for me it is enough
to recognize the end of the first parenthesized group.

Obiously, I would like a general recipe valid for more complicate
expressions: in particular I cannot assume that the first group ends 
right before a mathematical operator (like '+' in this case) since
these expressions are not necessarely mathematical expressions (as the
example could wrongly suggest). In general I have expressions of the
form

( ... contains nested expressions with parenthesis... )...other stuff

where other stuff may contain nested parenthesis. I can assume that 
there are no errors, i.e. that all the internal open parenthesis are
matched by closing parenthesis.

Is this a problem which can be tackled with regular expressions ?

TIA,

--
Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Sat Nov 30 18:50:50 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:50:50 -0200
Subject: Python and ONC RPC anyone?
In-Reply-To: <m3y97ct8i8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1038579701.32261.python-list@python.org> <m3y97ct8i8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20021130215050.A27015@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> > has anyone ever used RPC (Sun RPC/ONC RPC) from Python?  How
> > did you do it? 
> 
> I have not tried it myself, but Demo/rpc in the Python distribution
> contains xdr and rpc code, as well as an nfs and mount client.

I belive ILU also would do the job, but it's probably an overkill,
depending on what what he wants to do.

I've read a message from you in some documentation about it. Have you
evaluated it? If yes, how do you compare it to CORBA (e.g. omniORB)
these days?

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov 27 00:36:15 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:36:15 -0500
Subject: CVS
References: <X4UE9.128865$WL3.60156@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <3DE459CF.DAA2EC3C@engcorp.com>

Ali K wrote:
> 
> What is CVS?

Google is your friend: 

http://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+cvs


From newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Nov 11 16:50:16 2002
From: newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk (Newt)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:50:16 GMT
Subject: Classes
References: <o4Az9.957$nH7.7699611@news-text.cableinet.net> <mailman.1037020816.31691.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sCVz9.766$x23.7693357@news-text.cableinet.net>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037020816.31691.python-list at python.org...
>
[ ...snip... ]
> No "self" is needed.  To create a class which has three explicit
parameters,
> define it as
>
>     class ClassName:
>         def __init__(self, one, two, three):
>             ...
>
> then instantiate it like so:
>
>     instance = ClassName(a,b,c)
>
How would I do this if I wanted to get a response back? If for example the
screen listed 5 buttons, each with a piece of text. I want the use to click
on the button. This would then close the screen, and I'd get my response
back, which would tell me which button was pressed or something.
>     newt> Is the correct way to do this: in the class module, get the
>     newt> __init__ to do not very much, and then call the do_widgets
>     newt> routine?
>
> In all depends.  How complex are your screens?  How dynamic are they (do
> widgets come and go)?  What initialization is repeated each time a screen
is
> displayed?
>
No, that not that complex. One has a series of buttons, arranged in 4 groups
of 5. One is a text only screen (a bit like a help screen). Widgets are
fixed, but the name displayed in Labels might change.
> --
> Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
> http://www.mojam.com/
> http://www.musi-cal.com/
>

Newt




From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Nov  5 00:09:58 2002
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 00:09:58 -0500
Subject: Crash in curses stdscr.getkey?
References: <3DC6FA56.74A8D516@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <qnkheewhaah.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

> I'd receive a report from someone using CAGE (my cellular automata
> explorer in Python which uses curses) that he was getting crashes; he
> ran SuSE.  He fiddled around fond a workaround.  If he changed the line
> from
>
> 	char = self.stdscr.getkey()
>
> to
>
> 	char = self.stdscr.getch()
> 	if 1 <= char <= 255:
> 	    char = chr(char)
>
> he found that the crash went away.  I had presumed it was just an
> isolated incident (i.e., he had a corrupt curses library on his system
> or something similar), but just the other day another user reported the
> same crash, and when I sent them the workaround, it went away.
>
> Both users use Linux; the first used SuSE and the latter used Red Hat. 
> I use Slackware, and haven't seen any such crash (though both code
> fragments work fine).  The first was using Python 2.2.1; the latter was
> using Python 2.2.2.
>
> Is this a known problem, or should I try to get the endusers to research
> it further to submit bugs to the appropriate parties?  (I can't tell
> whether it's a curses problem or a Python glue problem.)

Looks like it's a problem with the wrapper for stdscr.getkey() -- in
no delay mode (according to the docs), it's supposed to throw an
exception, but doesn't. Digging further, it looks like _cursesmodule.c
has the wrong prototypes for the *getch functions. In particular, it
seems keyname(c) segfaults when c < 0.

Also looks like the doc's claims of throwing an exception from getch()
and getkey() when there is no input in nodelay mode is false.

I've gone ahead and submitted a patch (SF #633635). In the meantime, you can
get this functionality of getkey() with this:

def getkey(stdscr):
    c = stdscr.getch()
    if c == -1:
       raise curses.error, 'no input'
    return curses.keyname(c)

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Nov 19 11:12:16 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:12:16 GMT
Subject: stopping SimpleHTTPServer
References: <rllC9.1167$Kw6.763611@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <mailman.1037712456.9562.python-list@python.org> <XEtC9.1316$Kw6.814584@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <AptC9.28393$744.1027998@news1.tin.it>

dsavitsk wrote:
   ...
> I think I didn't ask a very clear question.  I tried to have a special url
> cause a function to be called which kills the server.  The problem is that
> sys.exit() didn't manage to bring it down ... it gave this traceback
> instead

In your subclass, you need to override method handle_error, which by
default processes all exceptions (including the SystemExit exception
raised by sys.exit) by printing a traceback and continuing.  Check if
the exception is SystemExit and then re-raise it, otherwise delegate
to your base-class's handle_error for normal error processing...


Alex



From knepley at mcs.anl.gov  Tue Nov 26 13:54:06 2002
From: knepley at mcs.anl.gov (Matthew Knepley)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:54:06 -0600
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de>
 <698f09f8.0211261046.582254a5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <y8hbs4ckvqp.fsf@spinetta.mcs.anl.gov>

>>>>> ">" == Jeremy Fincher <tweedgeezer at hotmail.com> writes:

  >> Thomas Guettler <pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in message
  >> news:<pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727 at thomas-guettler.de>...  I never liked filter, map and reduce.
  >> 
  >> I think it would be good to remove them from the python tutorial.  I think the tutorial would be easier for newbies
  >> it it would be smaller.

  >> The biggest problem with filter, map, and reduce is that they're functions, not methods.  All this discussion about
  >> list comprehensions versus filter/map ignores one major disadvantage of list comprehensions: that they only work
  >> with lists.  If filter/map/reduce had been *methods* on list objects, then a programmer could implement his own
  >> container objects (binary trees, subclasses of list, etc.)  with their own filter/map/reduce methods to construct
  >> like containers, and people would be happier.
  Actually, wouldn't you expect (as in most functional languages) that these methods are
  polymorphic over the shape of the argument? I think that the functional paradigm is
  just unfamiliar to a great number of Python programmers. That is not a reason to jettison
  very useful functions from the language. Many systems have mixed programming paradigms, e.g.
  Mathematica.

        Matt

  >> As far as the tutorial goes, filter/map/reduce could be "discovered" just like the rest of the methods that aren't
  >> emphasized in the tutorial.

  >> Jeremy

-- 
"Failure has a thousand explanations. Success doesn't need one" -- Sir Alec Guiness


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Nov 15 00:06:23 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 00:06:23 -0500
Subject: questions about scope/threading
References: <aoje8k$dpn$1@newsreader.mailgate.org> <aokrjb$eaj$1@newsreader.mailgate.org> <ar122q$gst$1@panix1.panix.com> <ar1tph$q7$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <ar1vcf$iu9$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <ar1tph$q7$1 at wheel2.two14.net>,  <maney at pobox.com> wrote:
>Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thing is, while var3 is not a module global, any thread can access that
>> name through Class1.var3 -- therefore, the object bound to Class1.var3
>> is a completely global object, and you have to be careful what you do
>> with Class1.var3 (or the object bound to it if the object is mutable).
>> Tricky stuff.
>
>I hadn't thought about Python's scoping that way before.  So anything not
>"hidden" inside a function is present in the global tree of namespaces?
>(or class definition.  hmmm, any others?)

<evil grin>  No, *everything* is global.  Here's a fun one:

import dis

def f():
    print "Hello, world!"

print dir(f)
print dir(f.func_code)
print "Python bytecode for f:", repr(f.func_code.co_code)
print
print "Disassembled bytecode for f:"
print dis.dis(f)

One way or another, every object in Python is reachable using Python
code.  See also the gc module.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?


From martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi  Sat Nov  9 14:47:34 2002
From: martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi (Martti Halminen)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 21:47:34 +0200
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7h31y5uyj81.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <slrnasqf9a.mjr.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <qVcz9.25108$6b.985891@news2.east.cox.net> <3DCD6038.7E6EC76B@kolumbus.fi> <TGdz9.25269$6b.996605@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3DCD6656.3CCD5E24@kolumbus.fi>

Richard Dillingham wrote:

> >
> > (if (a)
> >     (if (b)
> >         (if (c)
> >             (asdf)
> >    (zzzz))
> >       (foo))
> >   (bar))
> >
> > Would be the normal way to write this.

By the way, your newsreader broke the indentation in your reply :-)

> 
> I know, but I personally find the way I wrote it to be easier to read.
> You'll also note that I didn't use the normal C coding standard in the C
> examples, and instead used the Java/C# standard (Which I prefer).
> 
> The normal C way to use {}s being:
> 
> if (a)
> {
>  asdf;
> }
> 
> etc.

One of the C styles: see
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/indent-style.html

- And I seem to remember that Linus prefers a style which isn't strictly
none of those...

--


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Nov  3 12:58:59 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 03 Nov 2002 18:58:59 +0100
Subject: Largeint.h
References: <3dc55de7$0$239$1b0f2dd5@mercury.nildram.co.uk>
Message-ID: <j4of96fsbg.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Andrew Wilkinson" <ajw126NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk> writes:

> Python 2.2.2 doesn't compile under VS.Net because they've removed
> largeint.h from the Platform SDK, the current workaround is to copy
> the file from VS6.  I don't have VS6, does anyone know where I can
> download this file? I'd really like to be able to debug my Python
> extensions...

You should backport the patch that Mark Hammond has already applied to
the Python CVS, or use the Python CVS in the first place. You will
find that one can work-around not having largeint.h.

Regards,
Martin


From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 28 09:50:57 2002
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:50:57 +0000
Subject: importing question ?
Message-ID: <F1789k1BgSJyfpQD6ue000119bb@hotmail.com>

>From: Jonas Geiregat <kemu at sdf-eu.org>
>To: python-list at python.org
>Subject: importing question ?
>Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:35:47 +0100
>
> >>> import classes
> >>> a = veryBigSnake()
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>NameError: name 'veryBigSnake' is not defined
> >>> from classes import *
> >>> a = veryBigSnake()
>
>why doesn't the first import work ?
>and the second does
>
>and what is the difference between those two ?

They both work, it's just that you are looking in the wrong place.
Try:

>>>import classes
>>>a=classes.veryBigSnake()

'from classes import *' brings all the toplevel objects in classes into your 
local namespace, so you can access them just through the name. Generally, 
though, I think this is considered bad practice, as it could create 
overlaps. For instance:

>>>from classes import *
>>>from snakes import *
>>>a=veryBigSnake()

You'll find that a takes its class definition from snakes, not classes, as a 
single name can only be attached to a single object. But:

>>>import classes
>>>import snakes
>>>a=classes.veryBigSnake()
>>>b=snakes.veryBigSnake()

a and b take their class definitions from different modules- no namespace 
overlap- no problem.

HTH,
Paul

>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus




From newsreply at jtwok.worldonline.co.uk  Fri Nov 29 03:48:50 2002
From: newsreply at jtwok.worldonline.co.uk (KrayZee--J)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:48:50 -0000
Subject: Regular Expressions?
Message-ID: <as79li$o6frd$1@ID-120472.news.dfncis.de>

Is the Regular Expressions module really buggy or is it just me? Almost
every expression I type in gives an error. Many expressions which I have
tested and work in JScript give errors in python.

I want to make a RE which will match an IP address. This one works in
JScript:

(\d{1,3}\.){3}\d{1,3}

In python it works but matches only 1 digit for the last octet of th IP ie.
192.168.0.100 becomes 192.168.0.1

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

John




From goodger at python.org  Thu Nov  7 19:31:10 2002
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 00:31:10 GMT
Subject: Optik long help strings
In-Reply-To: <3DC9CDAD.91A42BDB@kootenay.com>
References: <3DC9CDAD.91A42BDB@kootenay.com>
Message-ID: <B9F0702A.2B601%goodger@python.org>

Bob van der Poel wrote:
> I'm trying to use the Optik package for parsing command line options.
> However, I'm running into a problem overriding its line warping
> routines. I'd like the help to print something like:
> 
> options:
>  -p, --pattern   Set pattern
>   'xx'  use the xx pattern
>   'yy'  use the yy pattern
>   ... more list of pattern options
> 
> Seems that optik thinks it knows better where the new lines should go.
> Suggestions?

It's not really clear what you intend.  Either you're using hard tabs or
single spaces for indents; in any case, it's very subtle here.

Optik isn't currently set up to handle complex option descriptions (where
complex means anything other than a single flexible paragraph).  I suggest
you post to <optik-users at lists.sf.net>.  If this feature is really
important to you, delve into the code and submit a patch.

-- 
David Goodger  <goodger at python.org>  Open-source projects:
  - Python Docutils: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/
    (includes reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html)
  - The Go Tools Project: http://gotools.sourceforge.net/



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Thu Nov  7 19:45:21 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:45:21 -0600
Subject: Newbie- how to basics
References: <8d3e714e.0211071600.2a98b136@posting.google.com> <slrnasm03e.160.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <006101c286c0$22283b60$ba01010a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard.haering at gmx.de>


> Tony C wrote in comp.lang.python:
> > I've gone through much of the documentation included with Python
> > 2.2.2, but can find any kind of reference on how to clear the screen
> > from a python script, or at the command line.
>
> You could just print the escape sequence for that, but I believe that
> there are utility modules for this.
>
> If you need more similar stuff, like posititioning the cursor,
> changing colors (or using bold/underline/...) you can use the curses
> module instead.
>
> I'm assuming a Unixish system here. On Windows, the console module
> from http://effbot.org/downloads/ might be it.

Or my WConio module... it's quite a bit more reliable on 9x
versions of Windows than the console module.  The effbot
didn't work around all the bugs in 9x console handling.

Or-you-could-avoid-duct-tape-and-baling-wire-os's-ly your's

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net




From sorry at this.is.my.work.account.com  Tue Nov 12 17:59:57 2002
From: sorry at this.is.my.work.account.com (Pasiphe's Bull)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:59:57 GMT
Subject: os/stat broken under 2.2 / Linux ?
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.13.09.59.28.700966.27058@this.is.my.work.account.com>

Python 2.2 (#1, Apr 12 2002, 15:29:57) 
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.2 2.96-109)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import stat
>>> import os   
>>> file_mode = os.stat("./foo")
>>> if (stat.S_ISDIR(file_mode)):
...     print "is dir"
... else:
...     print "is NOT dir"
... 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/stat.py", line 46, in S_ISDIR
    return S_IFMT(mode) == S_IFDIR
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/stat.py", line 30, in S_IFMT
    return mode & 0170000
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for &: 'posix.stat_result' and 'int'
>>>


From kahanpaa at gstar.astro.helsinki.fi  Thu Nov 14 09:16:01 2002
From: kahanpaa at gstar.astro.helsinki.fi (Jere Kahanpaa)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 14:16:01 GMT
Subject: total and utter newbie
References: <pan.2002.11.12.23.36.32.644986@webmail.co.za> <mailman.1037145377.2807.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar0b71$qen$2@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Hi.

John Hunter <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> "rockbox" == rockbox  <rockboxb at webmail.co.za> writes:

>     rockbox> Hi.  I hope that this is the right group to post this
>     rockbox> problem in. If not then I appologise.

> Ahh yes, the oldest newbie problem in the book :-)

> In current versions of python (as in C and many other programming
> languages) an integer divided by an integer returns an integer, so

> x = 3/2      #x is 1

> but if either number is a floating point number, then the division you
> are expecting is used

> x = 3.0/2.0  # x = 1.5

> The trick is to add a decimal point and a 0 to your number unless you
> want integer behavior

> x = 3.0/2  # this is also 1.5

> This is being phased out of python, and is slated for destruction.

> Recent versions of python (2.2?) allow you to use

> from __future__ import division

A more backwards-portable trick is doing a explicit conversion to a
floating point number before division.

vat = float(rate)/100*value

Jere Kahanp??
-- 
It's hard to think outside the box when you ARE the box.
                            - unknown, alt.religion.kibology 


From dodo_imp at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 14 16:20:20 2002
From: dodo_imp at hotmail.com (Luca Bruderer)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:20:20 +0100
Subject: Serial Port
References: <DAV61i0JhsgVy134IpL00004da5@hotmail.com> <m2of8rq3n2.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <DAV37UsebmspH2q6Dqa00001c11@hotmail.com>

And what about a module for the USB port?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Hunter" <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: Serial Port


> >>>>> "Luca" == Luca Bruderer <dodo_imp at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
>     Luca> Hello How can I read and send information through a serial
>     Luca> port for a custom keyboard I would like to build.
> 
> You may want to try searching google for 
> 
>   python serial port
> 
> The first result that came back looks useful
> 
> http://balder.prohosting.com/ibarona/en/python/uspp/uspp_en.html
> 
> Cheers, 
> John Hunter
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Nov 19 19:03:24 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 18:03:24 -0600
Subject: Implementing some of 'ls -l" directly in python
In-Reply-To: <16iera.t5g1.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
References: <16iera.t5g1.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <1037750604.542.11.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Tue, 2002-11-19 at 17:50, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> So, I use os.path.getmtime and os.path.getsize for two of the things I
> need. I then stat the file to get its UID, GID, and permission bits.
> Here's where I get stuck. I cannot seem to find a portable way to
> convert the UID/GID into their equivalent string names. Also, it would
> be handy if there were a (portable) way to convert the permission value
> into the more familiar u/g/o - drwx format.

There's the pwd and grp modules, which might give a start.  

  Ian




From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Fri Nov 29 10:23:51 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:23:51 +0100
Subject: Tkinter scrolling canvas questions
References: <mailman.1038412478.18166.python-list@python.org> <as2qpc$j1m$1@news-reader10.wanadoo.fr> <mailman.1038581922.1479.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as808m$q0s$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>

Richard Kuhns wrote:
> Would you mind telling me what you used for a reference to find info on
> winfo_height() and update()?  Did you just install and read through the
> Tcl/Tk docs, or is there a particular book you like?

I've never had any books about Python or Tkinter or Tk. The only references 
I ever used are Fredrik Lundh's "An introduction to Tkinter" @ 
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm and Tcl/Tk 
online man pages @ http://www.tcl.tk/man/

I used the first quite a lot in the beginning, but now I know how to 
translate tk commands to Python methods, I tend to use the man pages a lot 
more, if not exclusively.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru  Tue Nov 26 11:51:27 2002
From: zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru (Lexy Zhitenev)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:51:27 +0300
Subject: Some good Python tuts ?
References: <h5wE9.101$Tl3.2735@nlnews00.chello.com>
Message-ID: <as08qf$6om$1@serv.vrn.ru>

"Bram Wijnands" <bramwijnands at hotmail.com> wrote:
news:h5wE9.101$Tl3.2735 at nlnews00.chello.com...
> well i'm looking for some good tutorials for python im not a beginning
> programmer i know perl/php/vb and basic :P
>
> anyway got some ideas ? :)
>

If you are an advanced programmer, you can look into 'Dive into Python'
tutorial. It's quite big, but very interesting.




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov 16 17:03:15 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:03:15 -0600
Subject: Formatted Output - Floating Point Numbers
In-Reply-To: <d8d62a73.0211161321.12603c31@posting.google.com> (maximum_hops@yahoo.co.uk's
 message of "16 Nov 2002 13:21:19 -0800")
References: <d8d62a73.0211161321.12603c31@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2bs4p2mvw.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "David" == David Marshall <maximum_hops at yahoo.co.uk> writes:


    David> display.divide(57,7) # I only want 2 decimal places
    David> returned

You need to be careful of integer division.  


In [16]: 57/7
Out[16]: 8

In [17]: 57.0/7
Out[17]: 8.1428571428571423

If you want to insure floating point division, with recent versions of
python do

  from __future__ import division
  print 57/7

Otherwise, you can do  

  print float(x)/y

To format 2 significant digits of a floating point number, you can do

print '%1.2f' % (57.0/7)

The man pages of the C function sprintf will tell you a lot about the
format possibilities:

  http://www.rt.com/man/sprintf.3.html

John Hunter



From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 20 09:01:13 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:01:13 GMT
Subject: Deep XML modification..
References: <3ddb6d4f$0$18869$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <3DDB79FE.8D1CDC41@hotmail.com> <3ddb9413$0$18869$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <JAMC9.31770$744.1175762@news1.tin.it>

nobody wrote:

> Are there any better/more in-depth Python specific tutorials for SAX
> and/or DOM, than the ones included in PyXML and on the Python site?

Yes, O'Reilly published an excellent one written by Christopher Jones and 
Fred Drake -- highly advisable to anybody interested in Python and XML.


Alex



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Nov 27 12:33:18 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:33:18 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <j60auu0ms3i8e3oihtfold855at9gnglfg@4ax.com>

>Not really. It wasn't my experience, but it was pretty close. We jumped
>right in with Lisp. So we were learning a new style of programming,
>functional programming, which we had to wrap our brains around.

Which does Lisp a disservice, in a way. Common Lisp is an OO language
amongst other things, and this also so happens to be the predominant
way that modern Lisp programmers use Lisp.

>For me, what turned me off of Lisp as a student was the fact that I was
>simultaneously fighting an unfamiliar editor...

One of Lisp's _lethal_ failings is that anyone not using Emacs (or
something like Emacs) is a second class citizen. The decision to
require a programmer to use a special editor is a fatal one.

C//



From bwfc10 at aol.com  Sun Nov 17 04:20:14 2002
From: bwfc10 at aol.com (Bwfc10)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 09:20:14 GMT
Subject: quick question
References: <ar68d9$2n8$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20021117042014.04759.00000008@mb-fr.aol.com>

fair enough, no i'm just practicing 
a program to esnure that i can do python
for when i do get homework.
Thanks


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Nov 15 17:39:19 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:39:19 -0600
Subject: read n bytes from a binary file
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E0A9A2@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Rajarshi Guha [mailto:rajarshi at presidency.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 4:32 PM
> 
> Hi,
>   I have a simple question, but I cant seem to find the function to do
> it!
> How can I read N bytes from  a file opened in binary mode. 
> Basically I'm trying to check that a PDF file is indeed a PDF file
> 
> thanks,
>

too simple...

>>> f = file("BTB.zip","rb")
>>> f.read(8)
'PK\x03\x04\x14\x00\x02\x00'
>>> 

HTH!

-gustavo



From lamco333 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 20:40:53 2002
From: lamco333 at yahoo.com (LamCo)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 17:40:53 -0800
Subject: where can I get dl-dld-1.1.tar.Z?
Message-ID: <b241b322.0211081740.a8c4221@posting.google.com>

dear every programmer,

How's your life there?

I'm trying to install Python with dl-dld module

--with-dl-dld: then from the README file I need to get a tar ball from both ftp
    (ftp://ftp.cwi.nl/pub/dynload/dl-dld-1.1.tar.Z)
    ftp://ftp.cwi.nl/pub/dynload/dld-3.2.3.tar.Z).  

but I cant reach the ftp above.
Is there any site to get both dl-dld-1.1.tar.Z balls?

p/s: I've get dld-3.3.tar.gz from http://sapi.vlsm.org/gnu/dld/



many thanks...
YiHua


From justin at iago.org  Tue Nov 12 13:02:31 2002
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:02:31 -0500
Subject: Is python a good choice for this task?
In-Reply-To: <ut08vl458fs60d@corp.supernews.com> (claird@lairds.com's
 message of "Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:41:09 -0000")
References: <pan.2002.11.11.20.29.19.704887.2239@spongebob.corporate.com>
	<aqp58f$8pm$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<ut08vl458fs60d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <x7r8dq4qfc.fsf@ra.iago.org>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

> I think Tcl's sub- process spawning is perceptibly easier than the
> {popen,popen2, popen3} we most often recommend to newcomers.

For running a simple command, I agree that Tcl's subprocess spawning
is easier for a newcomer to understand than popen and friends.

So why not recommend the "commands" module instead of popen for those uses?

-Justin


 





From CousinStanley at HotMail.com  Wed Nov 13 18:58:03 2002
From: CousinStanley at HotMail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:58:03 -0700
Subject: Presenting Data neatly... how :)
References: <3dd2dd57$0$28316$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <aquols$dojr4$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

|| ...
|| Is there anyway to format it like this:
||
|| Dell            45       40%
|| Microsoft   60       56%
|| IBM             4      5%
|| ...

e-tones ...

Something like this seems to work ...

vList = [ ( 'Dell'  , 45 , 40 ) ,
                ( 'Microsoft' , 60 , 56 ) ,
                ( 'IBM' , 4 , 5 ) ]

for xTup in vList :

    print '    %-12s %3d %3d%% ' % ( xTup[ 0 ] , xTup[ 1 ] , xTup[ 2 ] )

Cousin Stanley






From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov 12 16:51:49 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 22:51:49 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> > http://tinyurl.com/2mhm
[...]
> That appears to insist on maintaining a solution to a problem?

I can't understand that comment. What is "That", and how does that
insist on maintaining what solution to what problem?

I'm telling that the Python documentation uses Python-specific markup,
which is needed in formatting.

> I'm curious what the problem being solved is, and whether docbook
> and its xml toolset could resolve it?

As a DocBook user, I can tell you that DocBook and its xml toolset
could not resolve that.

> is \seerfc an external reference to an rfc?

It is used in pairs. First, you write

\rfc{1521}

then you write

  \seerfc{1521}{MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions) Part One:
          Mechanisms for Specifying and Describing the Format of
          Internet Message Bodies}{Section 5.2, ``Base64
          Content-Transfer-Encoding,'' provides the definition of the
          base64 encoding.}

You can see the resulting HTML at

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-base64.html

> <ulink href="url"> .... </ulink> appears to provide the same
> functionality if that is the case.

Yes, but the documentation author has to fill in the URL. In Python
documentation, the RFC URL provided at formatting time; currently, it
points to www.faqs.org.

So yes, this could be converted, but only with a loss of information.

Regards,
Martin



From chrisw at nipltd.com  Tue Nov 19 15:32:16 2002
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:32:16 +0000
Subject: Strip-o-Gram 1.2 Released!
Message-ID: <3DDA9FD0.2080304@nipltd.com>

Strip-o-Gram is an HTML Conversion Library implemented as a Python package that 
can convert HTML to Plain Text and strip specified tags and Javascript from HTML.

See http://www.zope.org/Members/chrisw/StripOGram for more details.

This release includes more documentation and allows the methods to be used from 
Zope's Script (Python)'s.

cheers,

Chris




From usenet at jasoegaard.dk  Sat Nov  9 07:14:46 2002
From: usenet at jasoegaard.dk (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jens_Axel_S=F8gaard?=)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 13:14:46 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <slrnasilb1.201.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <3dccfcbb$0$200$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> There's also the problem of motivation: who's going to write those
> translators?  
...
>     Guile programmers?  If they're Guile programmers, they must like 
>     programming in Scheme.  Why would they work on translators for languages
>     they'll never use?

And Guile programmrs is the right choice of words. Most Scheme 
programmers does not use Guile. In most cases there are better
alternatives such as DrScheme and Bigloo.



From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 20 18:25:55 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:25:55 GMT
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com> <pan.2002.11.19.13.54.54.356611@battleface.com> <CWsC9.28249$744.1024358@news1.tin.it> <pan.2002.11.19.22.58.58.67571@battleface.com> <n2JC9.30839$744.1139538@news1.tin.it> <argdnk$6ed$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <7SUC9.34440$744.1277405@news1.tin.it>

maney at pobox.com wrote:
   ...
> I can somewhat agree with Alexander, and I think you're overlooking the
> way that this approach does force the regexps and their associated
> handler code apart in the source code.  Most of his objections, yes,

So did the approach in the post I was replying to -- there was a list
of pairs, each made up of an identifier and a compiled re object, and
the code was elsewhere.  Personally I like this approach, which is why
I accepted it as posted and built on it -- so I don't see why you're
claiming that this is a differentiator between Alexander's aproach
and mine.


>> In some other cases client code may not only need to have no
>> constraints against using groups in the RE patterns, but also
>> want "the match-object" as an argument to the action code.  In
> 
> This is one point on which I agree with Alexander: it seems to me to be
> the usual case that the regexp both identifies and parses the target.

It's one case, but it's very far from being the only one.

> If it isn't being used in that dual mode, then the whole issue
> addressed here (and in at least two other threads during the past week)
> doesn't exist.

Why doesn't it?  Alexander's post to which I was replying had no
groups at all in the regex patterns -- are you claiming he was
utterly missing the point of the thread, and his example totally
irrelevant?


Alex



From kemu at sdf-eu.org  Sat Nov 23 09:17:30 2002
From: kemu at sdf-eu.org (Jonas Geiregat)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:17:30 +0100
Subject: wxPython probleme
Message-ID: <3ddf8d82$0$194$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

I have 2 questions
1.the lines I've commented out don't work and I don't see the probleme
2.I want to create a function so I can save what I typed in in a file I 
know how to write to a file but I don't know what variable the 
wxTextCtrl uses in other words what var do I have to write to the file ?

here is the code:



import sys, os
from   wxPython.wx import *

ID_OPEN = 101
ID_SAVE = 102
ID_EXIT = 103

class main_window(wxFrame):
       def __init__(self, parent, id, title):
       	        wxFrame.__init__(self, parent, -1, title, size = 
(500,500),style=wxDEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE|wxNO_FULL_REPAINT_ON_RESIZE)
      		
		self.CreateStatusBar()
		self.SetStatusText("small editor")
		
		M_file = wxMenu()
		M_file.Append(ID_OPEN,"&Open","Open a file")
		M_file.Append(ID_SAVE,"&Save","Save a file")
		M_file.Append(ID_EXIT,"&Quit","Quit this small editor")
		
		menuBar = wxMenuBar()
		menuBar.Append(M_file,"&File")
		self.SetMenuBar(menuBar)
		
		self.control = wxTextCtrl(self, -1, style=wxTE_MULTILINE)
     	        self.Show(true)
		
# 		EVT_MENU(self, ID_EXIT,  self.TimeToQuit)
#				
#	def TimeToQuit(self, event):
#	       self.Close(true)
				
	
		
			
class App(wxApp):
         def OnInit(self):
             frame = main_window(None, -1, "wxPython: (A Demonstration)")
             frame.Show(true)
	    self.SetTopWindow(frame)
             return true
app = App(0)
app.MainLoop()



From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov  6 10:14:39 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:14:39 GMT
Subject: regex puzzle
References: <3dc91095$1_1@omega.dimensional.com> <ET9y9.78516$aL4.2423622@news1.tin.it> <3dc92dad$1_1@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <zlay9.98120$TD1.4412278@news2.tin.it>

Mike Brown wrote:
   ...
> seems to give me what I want: r'\A(?!\n)(.+)?\Z'  ... thanks for getting
> me on the right track!

(.+)?

is basically the same thing as

(.*)

right?


> I'm not sure I understand the difference between ^$ and \A\Z, but the

\A is always start-of-string and nothing else, \Z always end-of-string
and nothing else.  ^ and $, depending on the setting of re.M or not,
may also match around a \n; $ I believe always matches just before a
trailing \n in particular, with or without re.M.

> (?!\n) makes sense.

Yes, negative-lookahead is quite handy sometimes.


Alex



From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 20 22:46:47 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:46:47 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBB8BD.6020806@web.de> <h3intucpgk2dg6vhul96pg5epcfva8o8ll@4ax.com> <3DDBE406.6030803@nyc.rr.com> <ihgotusk6ua2itq5nmob1k6enrkhrao42a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <roy-20C822.22464720112002@reader1.panix.com>

Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> wrote:
> Even if Python and Ruby have or will have the _capabilities_ that
> Lisp has, (Python (will (never (be (lisp))))).

Um, shouldn't that be __capabilities__? :-)


From nw_moriarty at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 14 19:34:01 2002
From: nw_moriarty at yahoo.com (Nigel Moriarty)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 16:34:01 -0800
Subject: socket.error __del__
Message-ID: <ce0b6758.0211141634.2a492d6a@posting.google.com>

I'm using a TCP threading socket server and I get this error

Exception socket.error: (10054, 'Connect reset by peer') in <bound
method _fileobject.__del__ of <socket._fileobject instance at
0x0089CED8>> ignored

The program continues (I think because of the threading server) but it
would be wonderful if I could stop this error being printed (without
redirecting stdout as I'm doing other things with that).

Nigel


From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Thu Nov 21 08:44:50 2002
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 13:44:50 GMT
Subject: py2exe/numpy/com-server problem
References: <aribiq$rjqqb$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <r8dfurci.fsf@python.net> <ariept$rgg98$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
Message-ID: <ario0i$njhf4$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Uwe Schmitt <uwe.schmitt at procoders.net> wrote:
> Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:
>> Uwe Schmitt <uwe.schmitt at procoders.net> writes:


>> Maybe a missing numeric dll? Neither py2exe nor installer get them
>> all, I think.  If I remember correctly, multiarray.pyd dynloads
>> _numpy.pyd (in C code), or something like that.

>> You should try copying all the Numeric dlls (pyds).  Does this help?

> Thanks for your answer. I tried it, but the program still crashes.

I found the reason: I forgot to copy on .pyd into the dist directory,
now it works.

Greetings, Uwe



-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt      Computer science is no more about Computers,
uwe.schmitt at num.uni-sb.de      than astronomy is about telescopes. (Dijkstra)
http://www.procoders.net           


From lyle at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Nov 18 15:11:52 2002
From: lyle at users.sourceforge.net (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:11:52 -0600
Subject: Debugging python with C++ extensions
References: <3DD921E0.2000605@elemtech.com>
Message-ID: <3DD94988.6050901@users.sourceforge.net>

Karl G. Merkley wrote:

> I am looking using python as a framework for some C++ components.
> However, I am concerned about debugging across the python/C++ interface.
> How do people currently debug python with C++ extensions.  Every C++
> component will have it's own unit test; however, it seems inevitable that
> there will be times when it would be helpful to step from the python
> code into the C++ component.

This recipe from the Python Cookbook:

	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66510

may give you something to work with.

Hope this helps,

Lyle



From martian_bob at portalofevil.com  Thu Nov 28 16:37:47 2002
From: martian_bob at portalofevil.com (R. Arens)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 13:37:47 -0800
Subject: Problem opening files while using os.path.walk
Message-ID: <4f5748b4.0211281337.5597a4ac@posting.google.com>

Hi. I'm writing what should be a simple function that will walk a
directory structure, opening and joining all files within the
directory tree into a single huge file. I'm using os.path.walk and
testing the list of files returned to the function specified in walk
to make sure that each file is actually a file as opposed to another
directory - herein lies the problem. The function isn't seeing
_anything_ as a file, and is just skipping it. This one has me quite
perplexed, and I'd appreciate any help anyone can offer. Thanks!

Code follows....

import os, sys

def walkJoin(out, dirname, names):
    print "Current directory: " + dirname
    names.sort()
    for name in names:
        if os.path.isfile(name):
            file = open(name, 'r')
            lines = file.readlines()
            for line in lines:
                out.writeline(line)
            file.close()
        else:
            print "Keep walking"
            os.path.walk(name, walkJoin, out)
    print "Done with directory ", name

def main():
    out = open('out.txt', 'w')
    directory = raw_input("Enter the name of the directory: ")
    print "Root directory " + directory
    os.path.walk(directory, walkJoin, out)
    out.close()


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Nov 13 16:47:42 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:47:42 -0600
Subject: Help with searching a list
In-Reply-To: <slrnat5rej.fj.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
References: <8d3e714e.0211111913.2e0964c3@posting.google.com> <m2k7jissvt.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <slrnat5rej.fj.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20021113214741.GB13513@unpythonic.net>

# Replace this with a more sophisticated test if you prefer
def flattenable(o): return type(o) == list

def flatten(x, b = None):
    if b is None: b = []
    for i in x:
        if flattenable(i):
            flatten(i, b)
        else:
            b.append(i)
    return b

def flatten_generator(x):
    for i in x:
        if flattenable(i):
            for j in flatten(i): yield j
        else:
            yield i

Jeff



From dfan at dfan.org  Tue Nov 12 23:41:25 2002
From: dfan at dfan.org (Dan Schmidt)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 23:41:25 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <uof8uhyiy.fsf@dfan.org>

Martin Maney <maney at pobox.com> writes:

| So the typical processing loop is conceptually simple in a language very
| similar to Python:
| 
|   for l in file.readlines():
|     if (m = re1.match(l)):
|       (first, second, ...) = m.groups()
|       process type 1 record ...
|     elif (m = re2.match(l)):
|       ...
|     ...
| 
| Now, I don't use indents as small as that in real code, and the processing
| itself typically added a few levels.  So the straightforward translation of
| the simple concept into Python would go marching steadily off towards the
| right side of the screen.  Very annoying, and so unnecessary.

Yeah, this is the main thing that annoys me about not being able to
use assignments as expression.

| But in this case there was a beautiful, only mildly hazardous
| solution.
| 
| I wrapped the compiled regexps in a class that saved the results of
| applying the regex to a string, of course.
| 
| Notationally, this is very nice.  The code now looks like
| 
|   for l in file.readlines():
|     if re1.match(l):
|       (first,second ...) = re1.groups()		# typically
|       process type 1 record ...
|     elif re2.match(l):
|       ...
|     ...

I've done this too for simple scripts.  If you're writing reusable
code, one thing you do have to worry about with this approach is
thread safety.

Another alternative, which is often possible because this stuff tends
to happen inside line-processing loops, is:

  for l in file.readlines():
    m = re1.match(l)
    if m:
      (first, second, ...) = m.groups()
      process type 1 record ...
      continue
    m = re2.match(l)
    if m:
      ...
    ...

Dan

-- 
http://www.dfan.org


From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Sat Nov 16 13:54:20 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:54:20 GMT
Subject: quick question
References: <mailman.1037458463.20139.python-list@python.org> <20021116120631.08993.00000062@mb-fo.aol.com> <3DD685B6.DF1C65FF@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <jo4dtukr38u6cc0eohvp4u5t0f4q9dbo1v@4ax.com>

On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:51:50 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:
(edit)
>Of course, this group being what it is, someone will 
>almost always post a fully functional solution with
>annotated source without even questioning whether that
>will hurt you more than it will help. ;-)
>
>I actually find that a little sad, personally...

It is the curse of Python. It is so much fun to code in Python, and so
easy, most of us cannot stop our fingers.

Of course, all your points are correct.  I was thinking just a few
days ago about how this group will change as Python gets more popular
for teaching programming.

Manuel


From shti at attbi.com  Fri Nov 15 15:47:31 2002
From: shti at attbi.com (Yuri Shtil)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:47:31 GMT
Subject: pdb misbehaves in emacs-21.2.1
References: <3DD5528C.5090608@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <3DD55C9B.3070707@attbi.com>

Correction:



Yuri Shtil wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I have installed RH 8.0 and got emacs-21.2.1 with it.
> 
> I noticed that pdb (python debugging package) no longer tracks the 
> source code. It displays line numbers in the debugger window instead.
>

The statement that it works after I moved gud.el is NOT correct.

Something is fishy there. I THOUGHT it worked, but I cannot see it 
working anymore.

> It works well with emacs-21.1.1. When I moved the file gud.el to the new 
> emacs and byte-recompiled it, the correct behavour appeared.





> 
> I concluded that the changes to the gud.el introduced in 21-2.1 broke 
> the pdb (or maybe some other supported debuggers).
> 
> Any clues anyone ?
> 
>     Yuri.
> 



From donn at drizzle.com  Sun Nov 24 13:36:16 2002
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:36:16 -0000
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <yfsbs4grxl0.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1038162975.415777@yasure>

Quoth Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net>:
| "Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:
|
| > If there's one thing that makes Python a bad choice for me, that's it.
| > During development, static type systems save me a lot of trouble.
|
| Have you tried pychecker? I'm not sure what sort of troubles static type
| systems save you from, but at least for the relatively trivial but common
| cases like typos, pychecker seems to do quite a good job.

In the context where I've been making my typos lately, pychecker has
been out of its depth.  Lots of stuff it can't follow for one reason
or another, functions too long to analyse, etc.  This is not all my own
code, I hasten to point out.

Most of the problems are just limitations in pychecker that could be
overcome with more development effort.  But this same software is full
of every kind of introspective hack you can think of, importing modules
determined at run time and that kind of thing.

| On the whole, I think compulsory static typing is a bad idea. It invariably
| seems to lead to spurious warnings and unnecessary code (partly because
| typecheckers are usually quite daft and complain about correct code and partly
| because it causes less flexible code) and longer development times. 
|
| It would seem to me that most or all of the benfits of static typing can be
| obtained from tools.

It can't.  In places where the program itself is determined by run time
inputs - like in the case of the module that's imported that way - your
tool is of no use.  That's an extreme case, but in general, Python isn't
typable, be it compulsory or optional.

As per another followup's observation, it does not come as a surprise to
find that static type checking is not popular on comp.lang.python, and
it probably isn't worth while to take it up here.  I will only say that
there are many languages that have some degree of static typing, and the
quality and usefulness differs a lot from one to another.  OK, and I guess
I will say, if you don't count bugs that turn up in a program months after
you thought it was finished, I think you are underestimating your Python
development time.

But forget the way other languages do it, we're all Python users here
and we're talking about how experts program in Python, and guess what -
we're responsible for doing the work that the static type checking language
would have supposedly done during compilation.  We have to reason about
the correctness of programs - so - we have to write programs that people
can reason about with decent odds of success.  Python's most frequently
touted advantage is probably its readability, and of course that's the
same thing, and of course it isn't achieved just by selecting Python as
your implementation language.

I would like to propose, for example, that a simple 'if/elif/else' block
might be better than mounds of OO code with objects that register themselves
in tables at run time, if it means that you can tell at a glance how the
code works.  I would like to propose that an expert Python programmer is
one who knows all the introspective tricks in the book, and knows better
than to use them.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Nov 14 08:06:54 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:06:54 +0000
Subject: windll event loop leaks
References: <wc5tAKABi409EwqD@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <smy4xrpv.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <tti68IAu$509Ewaa@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <smy4xrpv.fsf at python.net>, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net>
writes
.......
>
>Sounds like a leak in calldll?
>
>So the only advice is to build a debug version and run it with a
>debugging build of Python to either use
>
I also suspected the calldll stuff, but when I try just a simple looping
pair eg

from dynwin import windll

testdll = windll.module('testdll')

print 'start',
for i in xrange(1000000):
        testdll.setrecord(i)
        testdll.getrecord()
print 'finished'

then I don't see any memory leakage. This dll is one of my old
tcldllcaller things and so uses standard C linkage.

/*testdll*/
int record=0
int     getrecord(void)
{
        return record;
}
void    setrecord(int i)
{
        record = i;
}


One thought that occurs is that the system API linkage might be
different. Any thoughts on that? If that were the case I would assume
leakage in the stack.

>- the (undoumented) sys.getobjects() function to find leaking objects.
>- or step through calldll's code with the MSVC debugger.
>
>You should be able to find some messages on python-dev were Tim Peters
>explains what getobjects() does.

Thanks for that.

>
>Another approach ;-) would be to give up calldll/windll and try the
>ctypes module - this way you would have me debugging the thing (in
>case it leaks).
>
>Thomas
Well it's only a few days old according to the announcement I just found
:) 

I will certainly give this a whirl. It doesn't provide a callback
generatr, but I suppose I can still use Sam's gencb.

Does ctypes use the FFI library for accessing external DLLs? That way it
would map to other platforms fairly easily.
-- 
Robin Becker


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 18 06:04:36 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:04:36 GMT
Subject: gobbling (was Re: What is the best way to merge two lists?)
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net> <3DD7F1D4.4090201@attglobal.net> <mailman.1037567425.19485.python-list@python.org> <gj6gtuso5907rkcf6vcos9huostv90167k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <8P3C9.29956$Yw.1496221@news2.tin.it>

Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
   ...
> I believe it has also been made stable-sort. The con is that it gobbles
> up more memory.

Here's a first attempt to quantify that "gobbling":

import sys
import random

# memsize -- theoretically-portable version
import resource
pagesize = float(resource.getpagesize())
mega = 1024 * 1024.0
def megs(x):
    return '%.2f' % (x*pagesize / mega)
def vmegs():
    res = resource.getrusage(resource.RUSAGE_SELF)
    return res[4]
# Linux-only hack
pagesize = 1
def vmegs():
    mstr = open('/proc/self/stat').read().split()[22]
    return int(mstr)

maxmem = 0
def memsnap():
    global maxmem
    mem = vmegs()
    if mem>maxmem: maxmem=mem

def cmp_and_snap(x, y):
    memsnap()
    return cmp(x, y)

random.seed(234876)
N = 5000
if len(sys.argv)>1:
    N = int(sys.argv[1])
data = range(N)
random.shuffle(data)

startmem = megs(vmegs())

data.sort(cmp_and_snap)

print "%s -- %d: %s -> %s" % (sys.version, N, startmem, megs(maxmem))



[alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.2 some.py 20000
2.2.2 (#1, Oct 24 2002, 11:43:01)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk)] -- 20000: 3.10 -> 3.10
[alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.3 some.py 20000
2.3a0 (#4, Nov  6 2002, 09:18:17)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk)] -- 20000: 3.55 -> 3.61
[alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.2 some.py 100000
2.2.2 (#1, Oct 24 2002, 11:43:01)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk)] -- 100000: 4.33 -> 
4.33
[alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.3 some.py 100000
2.3a0 (#4, Nov  6 2002, 09:18:17)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk)] -- 100000: 4.78 -> 
4.97
[alex at lancelot alex]$

A first assessment: 2.3 takes up more memory than 2.2  -- about 0.45 MB 
more independently of the tasks involved.  2.3 also takes up extra memory 
for its sort operation -- here, about 0.06 MB more when sorting a 20,000 
items list, about 0.19 MB more when sorting a 100,000 items list.

There MAY be limit-cases where this extra memory consumption does hit
performance -- cases where 2.2 was just on the verge of VM thrashing
and the small extra memory requested by 2.3 pushes the process just
above the edge -- but only if the working set is also increasing, which
I do not yet _know_ (the above is only meeasuring the overall memory
footprint, not the working set); and they should be rare cases.

Tentative conclusion: for now, I wouldn't particularly worry about
the extra memory consumption, pending of course more investigation.


Alex



From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Wed Nov  6 20:56:39 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 01:56:39 GMT
Subject: question on select
References: <lohjsuc5n97g8guh7jht4e8b4t909rdgeq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasjhql.154.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <lohjsuc5n97g8guh7jht4e8b4t909rdgeq at 4ax.com>, Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I know that select does not work on file objects in the Windows
> platform. But does select work on sys.stdin? On the Windows platform,
> that is.

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> type(sys.stdin)
<type 'file'>
>>> sys.stdin.fileno()
0
>>>

Does that answer your question? ;-)

stdin/stdout/stderr *are* file objects.
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From imbosol at vt.edu  Tue Nov 26 03:40:09 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 03:40:09 -0500
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038285096.4327.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arvdgv$qda$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

"Simon Wittber (Maptek)" wrote:
> I remember in my TurboC++ 2.0 days, the compiler would spit out 
> 'Ambiguous assignment' or something like that anyway.

'Possibly incorrect assignment'


> I always found the construct if(x = func()) rather confusing, and
> *never* used it, even though it was available and acceptable to do
> so.

Same here.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 18 05:03:30 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:03:30 GMT
Subject: Calling local functions from the C API
References: <mailman.1037483907.16178.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1037495664.30540.python-list@python.org> <m38yzsk4ja.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1037581104.29601.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <SV2C9.29618$Yw.1482586@news2.tin.it>

Jon Parise wrote:
   ...
>> In Python, you could write
>> 
>> d = {}
>> exec sourcecode in d
>> func = d['SomeFunction']
>> func()
>> 
>> Now just do the same in C. Which of the four steps is unclear to you?
>  
> Thinks makes sense, I think (although I may have more questions when I
> work on my actual implementation).
> 
> The one thing I note, however, is that I just can't execute arbitrary
> blocks of code via PyRun_SimpleString() and expect to be able to
> execute a function defined in one of those blocks of code again.
> Instead, it looks like I'll need to use Py_CompileString() or similar
> to maintain a code object.
> 
> Is that correct?

Not really.  When an arbitrary block of source code contains a
def statement, you want to EXECUTE that block of code, specifically
to execute that def statement, which creates the function object
that you can later call (not sure what you mean by "again" here).
If you just COMPILE the block to bytecode, the function object
will not be created until the def statement is executed.

Maybe the key tidbit you need to keep in mind is: def is a statement
just like any other -- when the def statement EXECUTES, it creates
a function object and binds that object to a name.  So, def is quite
similar to an assignment statement "name = expr", where the expr
part creates an object and the assignment binds that object to the
name.  Sometimes programmers with experience in other languages
have a hard time grasping the simple fact that def is a statement,
and the consequences thereof, because they may be thinking in terms
of "declarations" (which other languages have but Python doesn't).


Alex



From timr at probo.com  Tue Nov 26 02:04:26 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:04:26 -0800
Subject: Python for website size
References: <uu5q5of4f7h879@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <0476uugl13jgrkh3dvm3vortdogb5cem4h@4ax.com>

"Shawn Zeng" <xizst9 at pitt.edu> wrote:
>
>Is there any python program or libray can be used to obtain the total size
>of a website and its individual pages as well?

Do you mean remotely?  As in, a web site on another computer?  If so, then
the answer is no, this information is not learnable without fetching each
and every link and image on every page and adding up the sizes yourself.

On your own web site, you can use the 'du' command as suggested by another
poster, but many sites put icons and images in separate directory trees, so
even that is not entirely reliable.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sat Nov 16 10:43:20 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 07:43:20 -0800
Subject: Web Programming in Python
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211160743.eb01a55@posting.google.com>

I was browsing in Amazon.com for Python books and I have found 
 
Web Programming in Python: Techniques for Integrating Linux, Apache
and MySQL
by George K. Thiruvathukal, Thomas W. Christopher, John P. Shafaee
 
used at $4.00 (original price $44.99). I bought it; it arrived in a
week and it is in perfect conditions, like new. I thought people could
be interested.

                                                      Michele

P.S. I have checked today and the price has lowered !?


From wurmy at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 13 01:15:10 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 06:15:10 GMT
Subject: __getattr__ and others
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211121621460.30668-100000@gregpc>
Message-ID: <3DD1EF79.8070509@earthlink.net>

Grzegorz Dostatni wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I want to create an object that (at runtime) is called with an arbitrary
> function with arbitrary number of arguments.  Haveing this call it will
> forward it through xml-rpc to the server, execute it and return the
> results.
> 
> I am missing something simple - here is what I have:
> 
>     def calling(self, method="", *args, **kwargs):
>         print "calling method ", method
>         print "With arguments", args, kwargs
> 
>     def __getattr__(self, name):
>         return lambda s=self, m=name, *args, **kwargs: apply(s.calling,
> (m, ) + args, kwargs
> 
> This works as expected for (o is the instance of the object)
> 
> 1. o.hello = OK. Returns the lambda function.
> 2. o.hello(keyword="Argument") = OK. that works.
> 3. o.hello(3, keyword="Argument") = This does not work.
> 4. o.hello(3) = This does not work again.
> 
> I have to do something like o.hello(o, "hello", 3) to get what I want.

That's because if you do o.hello(3), s gets the value 3:

   lambda s=self, ...

rather than 'self'. Next you try to call s.calling, and since s is an integer 
now, it doesn't have a method 'calling'...

This does not occur with the keyword arguments, since they go to the **kwargs 
dict rather than overriding the s or m arguments.

> Does anyone have an idea how to make it more consistent with normal
> calling style?

This might work:

     def __getattr__(self, name):
         def temp(*args, **kwargs):
             self.calling(name, *args, **kwargs)
         return temp

HTH,

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA=='))
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/
Kaa:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/kaa.html



From dwelch91 at nospam.attbi.com  Sat Nov 23 13:05:29 2002
From: dwelch91 at nospam.attbi.com (djw)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:05:29 GMT
Subject: reliable tcp server holding multiple connections
References: <slrnatvnof.1qc.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <3DDFAEB4.1040506@nospam.attbi.com> <slrnatvpie.20s.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3DDFC36D.4090906@nospam.attbi.com>

Wojtek Walczak wrote:
> Dnia Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:37:07 GMT, djw napisa?(a):
> 
>>Do you know about Medusa?
> 
> Yes, but Medusa it a little bit large. I want to create small code,
> proof of concept. An educational example, nothing more.
> 

I would take a look at Steve Holden's "Python Web Programming". I think 
it has examples of what you are after.

/d/



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  6 02:04:47 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 00:04:47 -0700
Subject: ** URGENT ** Obtaining global and local dict's for current interpreter using C API
References: <mailman.1036536072.25347.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqaeug$7v9$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

quadric at primenet.com wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am new to Python but an experienced C++ programmer familiar with
> scripting etc..... and
> very excited about Python.  I have successfully embedded/extended it and am

[snip]

A friendly suggestion: repost your question removing the '** URGENT**'. Not 
only does it sound a bit rude to many, I bet you most of those who might have 
given you a good answer (your question is valid and interesting) probably 
didn't even read your message. 

These days, I know that I blindly hit 'd' whenever I see '***ANYTHING IN 
CAPS***blah', since it tends to be related to some very interesting financial 
transaction involving some African country.

So welcome to c.l.p, and I bet you a repost without the spam-triggering 
ALLCAPS will get you some good answers.

Cheers,

f.


From nw_moriarty at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 19:29:26 2002
From: nw_moriarty at yahoo.com (Nigel Moriarty)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 16:29:26 -0800
Subject: pickle-ing two instances of the same class on MSW
Message-ID: <ce0b6758.0211081629.53d46538@posting.google.com>

Folks

I have a list of two instances of the same class in a list which I can 
pickle on LINUX but it fails on MSW with this error.

cPickle.PicklingError: Can't pickle two.Task: its not the same object as two.Task

which is stating the obvious.

Any help

Nigel


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Nov 25 14:06:12 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:06:12 -0800
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arrijv$kap$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <1038199757.350382@yasure>
Message-ID: <5bstra.no3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Donn Cave fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 24 November 2002 
08:49 pm:

> Quoth Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de>:
> |
> | Message passing means that there are several entities that
> | communicate by sending messages between them. The main points are
> | that these entities are autonomous and that there is no central
> | "main" program that controls the behavior of these entitities.
> 
> But that's somewhat circular.  Message passing means that there are
> entities that pass messages, eh?  But what would a message be,
> precisely? What are the semantics of passing, for the sender and the
> recipient?
> How is it different from calling a subroutine?  Is multi-threaded
> execution necessary for this model?  If there is no main program,
> where does the program begin?  Can Python programs be written this
> way, and if so how would you tell the difference?
>
        Pure message passing tends to imply threading at the minimum (and 
fully separate processes at the extreme -- AmigaOS was one such).

        I don't think P.C. said there wasn't a main that initiated the system, 
but that the main didn't control the processing once started. Main 
could have been a shell script starting five or six programs as 
background tasks, and the tasks then use IPC to pass messages.

        A Python program written for this scheme, in purest form, probably 
creates n-Queues (one for each of the n-entities), then starts each of 
the entities as a distinct thread; after which the main program just 
waits for everyone to complete. Message passing would be handled by the 
sender process putting an entry onto the destination's Queue (to 
identify the source, I'd expect the message format to be a tuple of 
(return-thread's Queue, message data) ).

        The main difference, in my mind, is that subroutine/method calls are 
synchronous -- the caller is frozen until the method completes and 
returns. Message passing allows both to continue.
 

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 24 17:25:00 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 22:25:00 GMT
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <3DE14A0C.E0CDBC16@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <arrjjs$2ro$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:52:12 -0800, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

>Andr? N?ss wrote:
>
>> if myvar = someFunction():
>> 
>> My question is, what is the rationale for this? Is it a technical
>> issue? Or
>> purely a matter of language design? I'm curious because I'm interested
>> in
>> the design og programming languages, not because I want this behavior
>> changed in Pyton :)
>
>It's a language design feature, intended to avoid the confusion between
>when people write (say, in C):
>
>	if (a = b) ...
>
>but mean
>
>	if (a == b) ...
>
>Instead in Python assignments are treated as statements, not
>expressions, so they cannot appear in an if clause.
>
except in perverse ways (and this is not the only one):

 >>> a
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 NameError: name 'a' is not defined
 >>> b=123
 >>> if [a for a in [b]][0] == 123: print 'aha'
 ...
 aha
 >>> a
 123

BTW, are list comprehensions going to get their own local namespace sometime
or is this the way it's going to be forever?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From clspence at one.net  Tue Nov  5 15:13:26 2002
From: clspence at one.net (Chris Spencer)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 14:13:26 -0600
Subject: help() function
References: <0h2esukvqtolp17lt0hdg72ua9t038k18v@4ax.com> <aq75du$jv8$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <v8sesuknqtdeg1gisr7ekgcdqetatjqfcm@4ax.com>

	Wow, thanks!  This is perfect for my needs.  :)

Chris.

On 5 Nov 2002 01:03:58 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>On 4 Nov 2002 18:05:19 -0600, Chris Spencer <clspence at one.net> wrote:
>
>>	The documentation makes it clear that the help() function is only used
>>in interactive mode.  However, I see it as a really neato-way of generating
>>standalone .txt files from docstrings in modules.  However, as it currently
>>stands, it looks like help() can ONLY be used in interactive mode, which means I
>>can't capture the output to a file.
>>	Is there any way to get the same docstring formatting that help() uses,
>>but be able to capture it to a variable or a file handle?
>>	Inquiring minds want to know.

<snip pydoc stuff>

>    python D:\Python22\Lib\pydoc.py > a_file.txt
>
>as extension-triggered program output is not always redirectable.
>
>Regards,
>Bengt Richter



From spammers.do.not.bother at void.bogus  Fri Nov 22 16:00:21 2002
From: spammers.do.not.bother at void.bogus (Magnus)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:00:21 GMT
Subject: Python and gd library
References: <HrvD9.42612$744.1519497@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <FVwD9.393$NS2.22129@newsb.telia.net>

Antonio.P wrote:

> Hi to all
> Is there some integration in Python of the GD graphics library?
> http://www.boutell.com/gd/
> 
> Python instructions produce very poor quality images.. :-(

Perhaps you would like to try:
http://www.nullcube.com/software/pygdchart.html

Regards,
Magnus



From shalehperry at attbi.com  Sun Nov 10 02:20:20 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:20:20 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <aqkdoq$db6$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <ff133276.0211091535.47871cf2@posting.google.com> <aqkdoq$db6$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <200211092320.20597.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On Saturday 09 November 2002 17:46, Pascal Costanza wrote:
>
> The core is extremely simple:
>
> This is a piece of program in Lisp: (gethash "key" table)
> This is some data in Lisp, a list: '(gethash "key" table)
>
> In the first example, we have a call of the function gethash with
> arguments "key" and table. In the second example, we have a list with
> the three elements gethash, "key" and table.
>
> (BTW, this is exactly the reason why Lisp has this seemingly strange
> syntax - you can easily switch between program representation and data
> representation. On the conceptual level, Lisp makes no difference
> between data and programs.)
>

I have picked up lisp a few times and put it back down each time.  As I become 
a better programmer I find lisp makes more sense.  The prefix thing no longer 
bothers me because I just parse it as a function call and not algebra like I 
learned in school.

What always bothers me though is the quote syntax.  '(this text) is different 
from (this text).  I find that when reading code it is very, very easy to 
miss that silly quote.  Sure you just learn to look for it but it is still 
what irks me most.



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 26 21:14:11 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:14:11 -0800
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jp91sa.5p3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Dave Brueck fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 26 November 2002 
08:33 am:

> Ugh! Shame on any aspect of a language that burdens the developer this
> way. The fact that such strategies as the above have cropped up is,
> IMO, proof that the language is broken in that area. We don't say, "Is
> Tuesday today?" or "Is 5 your age?", either. :)
>
        Well, not in normal English, at least <G>

        I've seen too many novels that try to indicate "foreigner" by using a 
hacked germanic structure...

        Not alone Yoda is...
        5 your age is...
        Tuesday today is...

{besides Yoda, there is the Weaponsmaster in Lackey's Valdemar novels, 
the orientation supervisor in McCaffrey's Crystal Singer novels, and 
the agent(s) in some of Modesitt's Ecolitan novels}

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 01:12:17 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:12:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038351109.30747.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as1no1$dkg$3@wheel2.two14.net>

Delaney, Timothy <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
> Most studies after all do have a specific agenda in mind ;)

The price of getting funding, alas.


From imbosol at vt.edu  Fri Nov 15 15:40:30 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:40:30 -0500
Subject: wrapping all class methods
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ar3mf5$qii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Robin Becker wrote:
> In a partially successful attempt at wrapping all methods in a
> module I used the appended code. It does add a traceback wrapper to
> each method, but the tracebacks don't continue back very far ie I
> typically see something like
> 
> [Application.__getattr__]
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<string>", line 3, in __getattr__
>  File "C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\Attribs.py", line 67, in __getattr__
>    raise AttributeError, name
> AttributeError: wrapper

Can't tell what's going on here.  My best guess is there's a bug in
your exec'd string, and it is trying to call an method that doesn't
exist.


> ie the traceback seems to get stuck in the wrapper method. What's
> the 'proper' pythonic way to do this kind of global wrapping?

Metaclasses.  What else?  :-) Ok, it looks like you want to do this on
the fly, and I don't think you can set a class's type after it's been
defined.  (Maybe you can assign to it's __class__ attribute, but I
recall that assigning to __class__ is being phased out.)


> ##### attempt at wrapping all methods
> n = 0
> from inspect import isclass, ismethod, getmembers
> def makeTBWrap(C,methodname):
>        import new
>        global n
>        oldmethodname = '_%d_tbWrap_%s' % (n,methodname)
>        oldmethod = getattr(C,methodname)
>        S = []
>        s = S.append
>        s('def %s(self,*A,**K):' % methodname)
>        s('\ttry:')
>        s('\t\treturn self.%s(*A,**K)' % oldmethodname)
>        s('\texcept:')
>        s('\t\timport traceback')
>        s('\t\tprint \'[%s.%s]\'' % (C.__name__,methodname))
>        s('\t\ttraceback.print_exc()')
>        s('\t\traise')
>        s('setattr(C,oldmethodname,oldmethod)')
>        s('setattr(C,methodname,new.instancemethod(%s,None,C))' % methodname)
>        exec '\n'.join(S) + '\n' in locals()
>        n += 1

Mega-Ugh.  Using exec for stuff like this is hella-uncool.  That's is
what nested scopes are for:

def makeTBWrap(C,methodname):
        oldmethod = getattr(C,methodname)
	def wrapper(self,*A,**K):
	    try:
	        return oldmethod(self,*A,**K)
	    except:
	        import traceback
		print "[%s.%s]" % (C.__name__,methodname)
		traceback.print_exc()
		raise
	setattr(C,methodname,wrapper)

Maybe you're using a version where there are no nested scopes.  And in
this case, you can't use a callable class, because we're replacing a
method.  You can set C, oldmethod, and methodname as optional
arguments to wrapper, using odd names that you hope will never be
arguments to the method you're wrapping--the risk of variable capture
is probably worth it to avoid having to use exec.

Also, note that you don't have to set the oldmethod as an attribute of
the class to call it.  You can call a method simply by calling it with
the instance as the first argument, as I did.  This is why
class.method(instance,args) is equivalent to instance.method(args).


-- 
CARL BANKS


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Sat Nov 23 15:47:42 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 20:47:42 GMT
Subject: Newbie w IDE Issues (win32)
Message-ID: <3DDFE9D1.4000608@nyc.rr.com>

I am trying to settle on the best way to work on multi-module projects 
in Python. In other IDEs for C and CL, after editing any number of 
separate text files I can with one keystroke:

    save all open files
    recompile all and only changed files
    run the project

With IDLE (hopefully needlessly):

   for each changed file other than the 'main' one:
      save it
      run it (^F5) [side question below]

   find the module I consider main
   save it
   run it

1. main question: is there a better way with IDLE? Or.. I saw the 
various IDEs in the vaults, any recommendations? Oddly, after /years/ of 
  doing Lisp I still have not gotten into emacs, and want to defer that 
a while longer.

2. side question: IIANM, I cannot just save a module. I guess the import 
picks up the old .pyc?

FWIW, all in all, IDLE is serving nicely.

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Wed Nov 27 15:40:26 2002
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:40:26 +0100
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it> <3DE2893A.CCB631D6@jandecaluwe.com> <3DE449BD.1040503@something.invalid> <3DE48ECC.8FC9AE53@jandecaluwe.com> <B8WcnQH5q_B3kXigXTWcoQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3DE52DBA.27A072AF@jandecaluwe.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> "Jan Decaluwe" <jan at jandecaluwe.com> wrote in message
> news:3DE48ECC.8FC9AE53 at jandecaluwe.com...
> > Ok, let me explain better. Suppose - for the sake of the
> > argument - that I have a legitimate need for mutable numbers.
> 
> To me, the concept 'mutable number' doesn't 'compute'  very well.
> 
> A label or pointer that is attached to or points to different
> (eternally existing) numbers at different times (a 'variable') make
> sense, and we have such.
> 
> A container whose number contents change also make sense, and we also
> have that.
> 
> One could regard a count as a (changeable) collection of units, but
> that is similar to the above and can be modeled either with list or
> set/dict.
> 
> So what do you mean by mutable number, such that it could be needed
> but not available today?

Too long to explain here - really. I promise I will though (in another
thread, at another time). 

I propose to concentrate on the main point here: whether Python works
as promised or not. At this moment - and with your help - I believe
I can show it doesn't.

Regards, jan

--
Jan Decaluwe
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 14 14:05:12 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:05:12 -0800
Subject: PEP #99484663
References: <m2isz6ue4f.fsf@desk.crynwr.com> <418ab5dd.0211141031.48b7f0bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DD3F3E8.3D083FA6@alcyone.com>

bboman at research.panasonic.com wrote:

> I could go into a long explanation as to why block delimiters are
> useful but I will just say that when you cut and paste a block of code
> from one nested block loop into another block at a different
> indentation level it is much nicer and much less error prone to just
> tell emacs to re-indent the entire function than to manually adjust
> each line.

If you're already using emacs, it's far easier to just do block indents
and unindents with C-c > and C-c <.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ History is a bucket of ashes.
\__/ Carl Sandburg
    EmPy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/
 A system for embedding arbitrary Python in template text as markup.


From fgeiger at datec.at  Wed Nov 13 14:05:15 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:05:15 +0100
Subject: [regexp] Where's the error in this ini-file reading regexp?
Message-ID: <3dd2a254@news.swissonline.ch>

Dear all,

I have to parse a string which contains data in ini-file-format, i.e.:

   s = \
'''
[Section 1]
Key11=Value11
Key12=Value12
Key13=Value13
[Section 2]
Key21=Value21
Key22=Value22
Key23=Value23
'''

I decided to try a solution using re (yes, ConfigParser or simple string
splitting would be an other way to do it), because the structure really is
regular: Sections, which contain key/value pairs.

I'm sure there's only a tiny step left to succeed.

I tried:

rex = re.compile(r"(\s*(\[.+\])(\s*((.+)=(.+)))+?)",
re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE)
L = rex.findall(s)

where s is the string already shown above.

What I get is:

[('\n[Section 1]\nKey11=Value11', '[Section 1]', '\nKey11=Value11', \
'Key11=Value11', 'Key11', 'Value11'), ('\n[Section 2]\nKey21=Value21', \
'[Section 2]', '\nKey21=Value21', 'Key21=Value21', 'Key21', 'Value21')]

So L[0][1] contains the string 'Section1', L[0][4] the string 'Key11',
L[0][5] the string 'Value11'.
Section2 is also there and is contained by L[1].

So what I have is both sections, but only one (i.e. the first one) key/value
pair for each of those two sections.

When I remove the last '?' in ...(.+=.+))+?)" then the last key/value pair
instead of the first one is the result. So this must have to do with
greediness/non-greediness. What I wonder is, why do I not get all three
key/value pairs? How can I tell the re engine "gimme *all* groups having
key=value form", when a '+' delivers only the last, and '+?' only the first
of those pairs?


Many thanks in advance
Franz GEIGER


P.S.: You guess it, I use regular expressions only from time to time.
Therefore I almost always run into troubles like this. Would Friedl's
Mastering Regular Expression be an option for people like me? Anyone's
owning it? Does it have a cookbook section too? Any other pointers except to
those "if you want to parse a telephone number..."-examples?






From edream at tds.net  Wed Nov  6 10:31:29 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:31:29 GMT
Subject: Guilty secret: globals baffle me
References: <3U9y9.19300$ko1.2872530@kent.svc.tds.net> <j4r8dy3g0a.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <lBay9.19306$ko1.2877299@kent.svc.tds.net>

> You can share globals across modules by means of import. If you want
> to assign to the global, make sure you don't use from-import, but
> import the module, then assign via module.globalname = value.

Thanks for this reminder.

- Edward




From christian.stockhammer at students.uni-linz.ac.at  Fri Nov  8 10:17:02 2002
From: christian.stockhammer at students.uni-linz.ac.at (Christian Stockhammer)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:17:02 +0100
Subject: java to python
Message-ID: <1036768161.439599@news.liwest.at>

Hello List!

I've got homework I have to solve in python but i just know a little bit
java and i got my homework to run in java. Is there anybody who can help me
to translate that code to python?

Here it is:

public class Tilgung{
 public static void main(String [] args){
  tilgungsplan(100000.0,5.0,20000.0);
 }

 static void tilgungsplan(double schuld,double zinsfaktor,double tilgung){
  double zinsen;
  double echteTilgung;

  System.out.println("Periode Restschuld Zinsen Tilgung");

  for(int i=0;i<5;i++){
   zinsen=(schuld*zinsfaktor)/100;
   echteTilgung=tilgung-zinsen;
   System.out.println("    "+i+"   "+schuld+"  "+zinsen+"   "+echteTilgung);
   schuld=schuld-echteTilgung;
  }
  System.out.println("                 Restzahlung: "+schuld);
 }
}

This is what it produces: (it is a calculator for paying back a credit)!!!
Periode Restschuld     Zinsen    Tilgung
      0  100000.00    5000.00   15000.00
      1   85000.00    4250.00   15750.00
      2   69250.00    3462.50   16537.50
      3   52712.50    2635.63   17364.38
      4   35348.13    1767.41   18232.59
                 Restzahlung:   17115.53

Is there anybody who is willing to help me. I really appreciate any
suggestions

Cheers Christian





From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Wed Nov 27 06:55:08 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 11:55:08 GMT
Subject: what does is ?
References: <3de4a6dd$0$86531$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <slrnau9cep.tk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

Jonas Geiregat <kemu at sdf-eu.org> wrote:
> I saw something
> import string
> string._StringType is str
> what does this specially that IS

The "is" operator compares object *identity*, rather than equality, which the
"==" operator does.

> or in 2.2.2 string._StringTypes is str

I'd assume the check "types.StringType is str" will check if you have a Python
implementation (CPython or Jython) with class-type unification:

In pre-2.2 versions of CPython, str was a built-in function, while in 2.2+, it
is a new-style class:

    C:\>c:\Python21\python.exe
    Python 2.1.3 (#35, Apr  8 2002, 17:47:50) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
    Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> import types
    >>> str, types.StringType
    (<built-in function str>, <type 'string'>)
    >>>

    C:\>c:\Python22\python.exe
    Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> import types
    >>> str, types.StringType
    (<type 'str'>, <type 'str'>)
    >>> str is types.StringType
    1
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov  5 01:28:50 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 22:28:50 -0800
Subject: Crash in curses stdscr.getkey?
References: <3DC6FA56.74A8D516@alcyone.com> <qnkheewhaah.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <3DC76522.54375641@alcyone.com>

"David M. Cooke" wrote:

> I've gone ahead and submitted a patch (SF #633635).

Ah, excellent, thanks for looking into it.  I figured it was far more
likely it was in the Python glue layer than in curses itself, but really
had no way of researching it directly (the crash doesn't happen on my
machines).

I've already released an updated version with the workaround, which is
good enough for my users; just wanted to pass the word along about a
potential problem.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Society attacks early when the individual is helpless.
\__/ B.F. Skinner
    Bosskey.net: Return to Wolfenstein / http://www.bosskey.net/rtcw/
 A personal guide to Return to Castle Wolfenstein.


From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov 24 18:20:41 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:20:41 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <mailman.1037993694.2261.python-list@python.org> <arm9oa$but$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <6qyD9.60432$Yw.2729711@news2.tin.it> <armdko$jgb$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <KsLD9.44802$744.1610007@news1.tin.it> <arrhh6$hur$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <d9dE9.68529$Yw.3238316@news2.tin.it>

Pascal Costanza wrote:
   ...
>>>I mean, Python is already more advanced than Java.
>> 
>> Oh, I agree with this, but that's not the point.
> 
> Er, I have thought that's exactly the point. What do you need a
> backstage language for that is less powerful than the frontstage
> language?

The first Lisp interpreter was coded in machine language.  The first Python 
interpreter was coded in C.  Examples could easily be multiplied.  The 
lower-level, faster language is often used as the "backstage" (not a term
I'm familiar with, but I think I'm interpreting your meaning correctly).  I 
think (not sure) that the first Prolog interpreter was coded in Lisp, 
presumably with similar intentions.  So, I'm not quite sure what your 
question is meant as -- rhetorical, perhaps?

> (I guess that Jython is useful to take advantage of the Java
> APIs and its platform independence.)

That's a typical reason to choose Jython rather than CPython, yes -- being 
able to take advantage of existing Java-coded libraries (including the APIs 
of the various Java-based standards), and/or of platforms able to run Java 
bytecode (including various JVMs).


Alex



From gminick at hacker.pl  Sat Nov 16 09:53:28 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:53:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Get Stdout from external script startet through python
References: <ar5aog$53i$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrnatd4f4.8d.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:40:30 +0100, Christian Rapp napisa?(a):
> I need to start an external script from inside python. This works just fine.
> The called script produces some output on StandardOut, that I need within
> the python-script. How do I get this Output into python?

>>> import os
>>> print os.popen.__doc__
popen(command [, mode='r' [, bufsize]]) -> pipe
Open a pipe to/from a command returning a file object.
>>> a = os.popen("/bin/date")
>>> print a.read(),
Sat Nov 16 19:42:59 CET 2002
>>> a.close()

Is that what you wanted ?

-- 
[ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ ]
[ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) underground.org.pl  ]


From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Fri Nov 22 16:55:46 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 21:55:46 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <mailman.1037912012.3283.python-list@python.org> <arko42$vnp$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <arm952$gpc$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Matt Gerrans <mgerrans at mindspring.com> wrote:
> I disagree.    I've learned a number of languages and Python was by far the
> fastest.   This was probably due to the fact that it is not just easy to
> learn, but also fun. 

But that might indicate Python was not your first programming language.
Python is very easy to pick up if you have some experience with programming
languages already; I can attest to that too. But if you're new to programming
altogether it will take longer to assimilate all kinds of concepts. When I
learned Python I knew about objects and references and garbage collection
and functions and arguments and local and global variables and naming
conventions and design patterns and module separation and namespaces already.

If you have to learn all of that and everything I didn't mention to boot,
you're going to take a while.

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Thu Nov 21 15:22:05 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:22:05 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <mailman.1037907645.16736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <g1fqtuc2j7bt59dvieau9me07e0mcdm1t0@4ax.com>

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:00:47 -0500, mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
wrote:
(edit)
>But even given that, a comparative linguist who "learns" Tlingit doesn't
>really learn to carry on conversations with Tlingit speakers
(edit)
>When programmers optimistically "learn" a language in a couple days, it
>is a similar thing.

Good point.  It "felt" like I learned Python in just a few hours, but
I still have some of that early code on my hard drive, and looking at
it makes me sick.

Around the time I was learning Python, I was doing a lot of coding in
Visual Basic, so I know why my early code makes me sick.

Python, compared to other languages, does very little to stand in your
way in being productive.  Nothing outlandish, no maddening omissions,
no strange operators, very few special cases, code can be translated
into Python from other languages quickly without a very deep knowledge
of Python.  So it can "feel" like one can learn it very quickly.

Manuel


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Fri Nov 15 04:09:51 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:09:51 +1100
Subject: rm -rf in python?
In-Reply-To: <200211150508.VAA12921@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
References: <3DD478CD.2080608@verio.net> <200211150508.VAA12921@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <200211152009.51211.rjones@ekit-inc.com>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 4:08 pm, Chad Netzer wrote:
> On Thursday 14 November 2002 20:32, VanL wrote:
> > I suppose that I could recurse
> > down through, deleteing as I went, but it seems that there must be an
> > easier way.
>
> Nope, there isn't.  (At least, not a portable way)

Yes there is, os.rmtree()


    Richard




From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Nov  5 10:00:43 2002
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 16:00:43 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb and threads
References: <aq69sk$8tb$1@norfair.nerim.net> <wzlm496ps2.fsf@cs.uu.nl> <aq6p4q$lmd$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <wziszcvz6s.fsf@localhost.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> "Gillou" <nospam at bigfoot.com> (G) writes:

>> >>>>> "Gillou" <nospam at bigfoot.com> (G) writes:
>> 
G> Hi,
G> I plan to make SQL queries in different threads of an application using
G> MySQLdb.
G> Can I use the same Connection object in all threads (each thread having
G> its
G> own cursor) for the queries ? Or should I use a different Connection
G> object
G> for each thread ?
>> 
>> The doc says:
>> 

G> [SNIP]

>> For threaded applications, try using a connection pool. This can be done
>> using the Pool module.

G> Many thanks Piet for this enlightenment,

G> Where did you find the Pool module you're writing of ?

I just copied the doc.

G> I didn't find it in the standard Python distro (2.1.3) nor with google.

Google gives me:
http://dustman.net/andy/python/Pool
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From blakeg at metalink.net  Wed Nov 13 19:26:49 2002
From: blakeg at metalink.net (Blake Garretson)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:26:49 -0500
Subject: wxPython program failing after upgrade
Message-ID: <ut5re93g8s0556@corp.supernews.com>

I upgraded to wxPython 2.3.3.1 using the precompiled win32 binary, and now
my wx program won't work.  (I previously used 2.3.2.1)  I'm using a DC
client to draw some graphics, and it fails when it goes to refresh the
screen.  Here's the error that shows up in a popup dialog:

"""
c:\projects\wx\src\msw\dcclient.cpp(216): assert "wxFalse" failed: wxPaintDC
may be created only in EVT_PAINT handler!
Do you want to stop the program?
"""

(By the way, that path doesn't exist on my machine!)

Then another error gets printed to stderr:

"""
  File "C:\Python222\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\gdi.py", line 607, in
DrawText
    val = apply(gdic.wxDC_DrawText,(self,) + _args, _kwargs)
OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
"""

I haven't changed the program at all.  Just to be sure, I reinstalled Python
2.2.2 and then wxPython, and still no luck.  I even tried the Unicode and
ANSI versions!  Any ideas what's going on here?

Thanks,
Blake Garretson




From tonygreen at techie.com  Fri Nov  8 08:19:09 2002
From: tonygreen at techie.com (Tony)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:19:09 -0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9ROy9.7069$8P5.4238@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

My guess is that Lisp appeals to people who like predicate logic and Python
appeals to people who like to deliver software.

Lisp has been the mainstay of a lot of traditional AI courses for donkeys
years, Python has been picked up by a lot of the new generation of
programmers who learnt their trade on scripted web applications and needed
something quick, clear and flexible to get the job done as quickly and
painlessly as possible.

I'm not at all familiar with Scheme.


"Oleg" <oleg_inconnu at myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128 at posting.google.com...
> Hi
>
> I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
> between Python and Common Lisp (
> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
>
> Oleg




From gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk  Mon Nov 11 15:46:20 2002
From: gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:46:20 +0000
Subject: Efficient scanning of mbox files
References: <mailman.1037016554.21772.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3cq7q1gj.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk>

Martin Franklin <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> writes:

> I ran the above example on my Python folder (7000+ messages...)
> it took 12 seconds to process.  Then I changed the 
> if FROM_RE.match(line):
>
> to
>
> if line.startswith("From "):

Trouble is, I can't do this, as the mbox files I've got *don't*
reliably have lines starting with "From" in the message body quoted
with an initial ">" :-(

> Then I slurped the file into a cStringIO.StringIO object and got it down
> to 5 seconds.....

I'll have a look at slurping, though. I was worrying because I have a
mix of CRLF and LF line endings (some files have one, some the
other). I wasn't sure what effect that would have - but thinking about
it, as long as I read files in binary mode, seek offsets should be the
same as byte positions in the in-memory string, so things should be
OK.

Thanks for the suggestions,
Paul

-- 
This signature intentionally left blank


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Nov 19 09:13:24 2002
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 15:13:24 +0100
Subject: installing mysqldb module in os x
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1037653233.32184.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1037653233.32184.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wzlm3pprzv.fsf@cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> "Stephen Aichele" <stephen at mochamail.com> (SA) writes:

SA> Howdy.
SA> I've installed mySQL v.3.23.52 on a system running mac os x 10.2, &
SA> python 2.2.   

SA> I'm now trying to install the python module for interfacing with
SA> mysql (mysqldb), but on 'python setup.py build', I keep getting the
SA> following error:

SA> 'can't locate file for: lmysqlclient-r'  ...  Before I go commenting
SA> out lines in the setup file (I'm assuming that I actually DO have the
SA> threadsafe libraries installed), I wanted to check if anyone else has
SA> run into (and solved) this problem.

If you installed the mySQL installer package then you don't have the
threadsafe library. You should compile it yourself (or ask me for a copy).
That's how I did it.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Wed Nov 27 17:44:33 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 22:44:33 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE040DF.EACC7D3A@kolumbus.fi> <yfsbs4ebhnl.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE2AEFE.BF188406@kolumbus.fi>
Message-ID: <yfs1y56aazy.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Martti Halminen <martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi> writes:

> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> 
> > Sure, loop isn't the only iteration construct, but that doesn't really make it
> > any better, does it? Especially given that all suffer from the fact that they
> > only work on a quite small number of containers.
> 
> Given that every "container" in the language has sufficient iteration
> constructs to handle them, I don't see this as a problem.

I really have difficulties understanding why you think this lack of
polymorphism isn't (at least potentially) a problem.  That's why I brought the
ocaml example as an analogy: in ocaml you can't just do "1.0 + 1.0", although
"1 + 1" works fine. That's because you have to use different operators for
floats and ints. As there are however "sufficient constructs" for every number
type "in the language", I guess you wouldn't see a problem with that either?

> Steele's book "Common Lisp: the Language" was published in 1984; the
> biggest missing piece was CLOS.

And decent error handling, if I remember right?

> The second edition, in 1990 contained most of the stuff that ended in
> the standard.

And some stuff that didn't (like series). But anyway, you conviently ignored
my question why the fact that lisp (including pre-ansi CL) was around before
python, perl etc. should have been a *disadvantage*. According to the logic of
your argument (fast computers that mamke HLL viable are a relatively recent
development), CL should in fact have had a major competetive advantage (when
perl came out, there were already lisps that could rival fortran for numeric
code). There are of course also plenty of other reasons why being an (I
suspect you'd assume inferior) latecomer like python should be
detrimental.

> Nothing you have written has shown an "iteration class" as anything
> desirable, either. 

OK, let me try a real example. One quite powerful corollary of having a
generalized iteration protocol is that you can iterate over things that
generate items on the fly (especially useful now that python also sports
generators).

This simple example, closely based on something I used not too long ago
illustrates many of the nice features of iteration in python:

colors = "rgbkcmy"
styles = (":", "-:", "-", ".")
for line, fill, color in zip(matrix, *map(xcycle, (colors, styles))):
    plot(line, fill + color)   # append color to fill

xcycle is a self-defined utility function that forever loops over some
iterable:

def xcycle(seq):
    while 1:
        for item in seq: yield item

This will plot the rows of a matrix as lines with different color and fill
combinations. Note that in this non-contrived example, there are 5 (!)
different kinds of containers (or iterables): a matrix object, a string, a
tuple, a list and a generator. 

The list returned by map is admittedly a bit gratuitous, since for only 2
arguments I might as well have written "...xcylce(colors), xcylce(styles)",
but it provided a nice opportunity to bring in the nice *-syntax as a
shorthand for apply (which of course also works on any iterable (and is much
more readable than "apply(zip, [matrix] + map(...))")). 

The only thing I dislike is of the use of "+" to append stuff :)

How would you write the same in CL? 

Of course this example is quite trivial (note however, that it handles
different containers for "lines", such as arrays, matrix'es etc. which happen
to be different classes), but I hope it helps to illustrate the point (if not
I guess I could show you some others).


> 
> > But that is besides the point. The python ``x = cont[indx]`` will likely
> > continue to work even if I choose to replace ``cont`` with some other
> > container type later. Same for ``for i in cont: ...`` etc. This is a fairly
> > important abstraction barrier.
> 
> If I didn't misunderstand the Python Reference Manual, that would
> require stuff like __len__, __getitem__, __setitem__, __delitem__,
> __iter__ to be written by you for it to work. 

Yes, if you wrote something that would act like a container type but instead
of naming the relevant methods __iter__, __getitem__ etc.  you'd idiotically
call them , say 'frblbar' and 'qrtfds' etc., then your 'container' wouldn't
support the iteration protocol and so forth. But what are you trying to say?

> 
> > OTOH ``(let ((x (gethash key hash)) won't. T Sure, I could go along and define
> > my own generic accesor functions (CL is powerful enough for that) 
> 
> (defmethod gethash (key (hash my-hash-table-type))
>    ... whatever needed for my own stuff)
> 
> (defmethod gethash (key hash) 
>      (cl:gethash key hash));; default to normal
> 
> If that was difficult in your opinion, we have different definitions for
> difficulty.

The point was not difficulty. The reason scheme sucks so bad is not because
doing things is inherently difficult. It sucks because important fundamentals
have no standardized expression.

> It is a risk for your own code, but as you would be defining the
> semantics, however underspecified you like, that is your problem. The

I know that would not affect the core language, but that alone isn't good
enough.

> system continues to run its built-in version for its internals
> regardless of what you do in your own code (assuming you did that in
> your own package, which is the only sensible way unless you actually
> know what you are doing.)

Are there any cases where you'd know what you're doing (I thought messing with
cl: => undefined behavior, according to the standard)?

>  
> > > complex already for most people.
> > 
> > Well yes, but not sufficiently general. The for loop in python is not complex,
> > but more general in that it takes an infinite variety of container classes
> > (including lazy ones, which obviously adds expressiveness). And I should
> > suspect that people would actually like to extend loop if it weren't such a
> > nightmare (also note that e.g. emacs's (cl) LOOP *is* extended).
> 
> If you like the Python looping constructs better, it is possible to
> implement those in CL. Feel free.

Actually, I'd be tempted, if I were to do quite a bit of CL coding. That, of
course wouldn't make the problem go away (just as the fact that you can define
(various, incompatible) module and OO systems in scheme doesn't make the
problem that scheme doesn't have a module system go away). It would also not
mean that the myriad of builtin functions that work on lists or sequences
(count-if, some, etc.) or other people's code would magically start to accept
all kind of container types.

Before we run into some misunderstanding again, there is of course little
magic about 'for' as such, the nice thing about it (and 'map' and 'filter'
etc.) is just that it works for everything that support python's iteration
protocol (an ersatz of which I'd have to implement).

> 
> Hey, we agree on something! :-)

Oh, well we might agree on more that you're thinking :)

> 
> > Unified item access, setting and deletion OTOH is an abstraction and thus
> > helps to produce better code. If you disagree, try replacing all instances of
> > SETF in your code with SETQ. 
> Given that they do quite different things, I fail to see the meaning of
> this. For that matter, I prefer SETQ when handling symbols: it is less
> dangerous.


What are different things (not SETF and SETQ, I assume, since the former is
pretty much a superset of the latter and PAIP, e.g. never uses SETQ)? If you
mean setf and python's "cont[FOO] = x" etc. then I'd like to know what makes
you think so?


> > > Now what tools did Python have to define your own control flow
> > > constructs ? :-)
> 
> > Well, for some cases where lispers think you'd need macros the iteration
> > protocol and generators are actually enough (and, I guess, also better). Of
> > course there are quite a few things you can conveniently do with macros that
> > are awkward in python and CL has many cool things python hasn't -- but I
> > really think iteration and containers are better done in python.
> 
> That may be if you are happy with just that. Quite often in Lisp
> programming the datastructures are trees, graphs etc where a
> single-dimensional iteration is not what is needed, so it is not such a
> holy grail as you make it to be.

It is of course possible that usage patterns differ, so that this kind of
iteration indeed doesn't occur that often (the number of CL builtins that
follow this pattern makes me doubt that, though). 

Why it shouldn't be useful to iterate through all the leaves of
e.g. a tree, however, is really beyond me. 

BTW, I guess the ability to deep and shallow-copying unknown containers is
also not useful?

> 
> At one level it is a question of stylistical freedom: in Python you
> program in a language which looks like Guido likes it to be. In CL you
> can program in a language that looks like anything you want it to be,
> assuming you consider the effort worthwhile. Not all do.

Sure, I'm explicitly acknowledging the neatness of a proper (unlike, say cpp)
macro system above. However I also happen to think that CL's macros are not
good enough for python (in a non-derogatory way; doing them better is not
trivial), so I don't think it is not purely a difference in stylistic freedom
Guido is willing to grant.

alex


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov 29 14:33:11 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 19:33:11 GMT
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list@python.org> <3DE59E73.4040908@something.invalid> <as5ugi$a48$0@216.39.172.122> <TcqdnSvLJ5ZGXXugXTWcow@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <as8fdn$2in$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:20:57 -0500, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

>
>"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
>news:as5ugi$a48$0 at 216.39.172.122...
>>  >>> def foo(x): print x
>>  ...
>>  >>> bar = foo.__get__('Hi via foo')
>>  >>> bar()
>>  Hi via foo
>
>This is a new one for me:
>
>>>> def f(): pass
>...
>>>> f.__get__
><method-wrapper object at 0x015197B0>
>>>> f.__get__.__doc__
>'descr.__get__(obj[, type]) -> value'
>
>Seems to be a new, undocumented (?, not in indexes) method producing a
>new, undocumented (?) internal type.  Not something to bank a product
>on ;-)
>
I was reading

    http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html

and PEP 252

    http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0252.html

and trying stuff ;^P when I noticed that dir(foo) showed __get__, so one thing let to another ;-)

but while that stuff is really interesting, what I was reflecting on was
whether internals docs ought *all* to have some kind of predictable footnoting
saying what's off limits for ordinary use.

Or should one assume that it's all obviously off limits? It may not be so obvious
to newbies sometimes -- and remember, we're all newbies, just on different subjects ;-)
(to paraphrase Will Rogers).

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Wed Nov 27 10:00:22 2002
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:00:22 +0100
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com>
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021127160022.4871392e.mikael@isy.liu.se>

Hi all!

On 27 Nov 2002 05:26:33 -0800
hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu) wrote:
> The global statement as in
> 
> def f(x):
>     global y
>     ...
> 
> is a directive to the parser. Internally the parser must keep a list
> of the "locally-globalled" names. Yes, you guessed right, out of pure
> curiosity: is this list accessible from Python? If not, why not? :)

I have a few related questions. Assume that we have defined f as above
in one global namespace, A say, and assume that f (re)binds y. Then we
place f in another global namespace, B say. What happens when we execute
f in B is that y in A is rebound. I would have guessed that a variable y
in B would have been created or rebound. Now to my questions:

  Why is that so? 
  Is that behaviour intended?
  Is it likely to stay that way?

Please understand me correcly. I'm not complaining. I'm just curious.
Actually, in my application, the described behaviour is what I'm after.
I could also imagine that there are situations where someone would
prefer y in B to be affected, and not y in A, which brings me to my last
question:

  Is there an obvous way to have f (still defined in A) manipulate
  objects in B when executed in B?

Greetings
/Mikael

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From pruebauno at latinmail.com  Tue Nov 12 12:59:13 2002
From: pruebauno at latinmail.com (nnes)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 09:59:13 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d8778a53.0211120959.2d7a5162@posting.google.com>

oleg_inconnu at myrealbox.com (Oleg) wrote in message news:<3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128 at posting.google.com>...
> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?

Maybe because of this????

Newbie:
I want to add 2+2 ...

c.l.xx
go take some BASIC programming course first kid

c.l.p.
type [2] [+] [2] [Enter]

bozo
huh?

=========================================

Newbie:
how do I read an xml file?

c.l.xx
I am selling this library you might be interested in ...

c.l.p.
copy and paste the following code budy

import xml
...

bozo
isn't xml standard in all computers?

===============================================

Newbie:
I need to store some data in (Postgresql, Mysql)...

c.l.xx
Postgresql is open source. Write your own driver ...

c.l.p.
copy and paste the code of page x of the documentation provided with (PG, M)

bozo
buy (Oracle, DB2). It probably has a driver for xx language


=================================================

Newbie:
I want to run my neat windows GUI thingy on a *nix machine

c.l.xx
graphical interfaces are for sissies

c.l.p.
install python on that *nix machine

bozo
I heard Java is "the" thing


===================================================

Newbie:
I have application in language yy I want to use

c.l.xx
yy is evil rewrite everything in xx

c.l.p.
import it, call it, send textfiles ... we will find some way
to push, pull information into that thing

bozo
labor from elbonia will handle this for cheap money


P.S.: Don't take this too seriously :-)


From rodrigobamboo at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 20 07:23:47 2002
From: rodrigobamboo at hotmail.com (Rodrigo B. de Oliveira)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 04:23:47 -0800
Subject: Python embedding question: how to expose a new "builtin"?
References: <ad9ea6f1.0211190807.73bfe1a1@posting.google.com> <awtC9.38553$Yw.1818910@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ad9ea6f1.0211200423.1bf2a000@posting.google.com>

> > <snip language="C++">
> > 
> > PyObject* __builtin__ = PyImport_ImportModule("__builtin__");
> > PyObject_SetAttrString(__builtin__, "application",
> > (PyObject*)_pyapplication); Py_DECREF(__builtin__);
> > 
> > </snip>
> 
> This looks to me like the correct way to do what you ask.
> 

Thanks.


> 
> > Notes:
> >     * _pyapplication is an instance of a C new style class
> 
> What IS "a C new style class"...?

Sorry. I meant a class defined in C instead of a class defined in
python. Too much going on here ;-)


> 
> > The problem is: the modules can see the name "application" but
> > dir(application) returns [] and if I try to access any of  application's
> > attributes I get an AttributeError.
> > 
> > Thoughts?
> 
> Looks to me like the problem is with the _pyapplication object
> rather than with the exposing of it in the built-ins module.  What happens 
> if you architect another way to let Python code get at that same object?  
> Does "is" show the two ways give the same object, and what are the
> symptoms on e.g. dir for each?  I think you should get the same
> results, confirming the problem is with the object and not with
> the way you're choosing to expose it.

You are right. I tried that and the results were the same.

I don't have the source code here at the office I'll take a deeper
look at the _pyapplication type definition again tonite and probably
will be bothering you again soon ;-)

Thank you very much.
Rodrigo


From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Fri Nov  8 22:11:17 2002
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 19:11:17 -0800
Subject: Building Python 2.2.2 with aqua Tk support on MacOS X 10.2 -- instructions
References: <aqf13o$224g$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0211081911.69876f76@posting.google.com>

"Russell E. Owen" <owen at nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:<aqf13o$224g$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
> Instructions for building Python 2.2.2 with aqua Tk support (plus 
> readlines and XML parsing) are available at 
> <http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/>. Thanks to the many people 
> (credited in the document) who helped me figure out how to do it.
> 
> There are still a few minor glitches, but no show stoppers. I may update 
> the file over time if any answers come in for the glitches. The 
> procedure should be simpler for building Python 2.3, when that comes out.
> 
> -- Russell

One very minor issue. When giving instructions on how to create a pythonw
shell script, you say to put in it:

  #!/bin/sh
  exec /Applications/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/python $@

You might want to use:

  #!/bin/sh
  exec /Applications/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/python "$@"

If you don't have double quotes around $@, if you have an argument to the
script which has a space in it, that argument will get separated into more
than one argument when passed to the actual python executable.

Ie., with script as you originally suggest it should be:

bash-2.05a$ pythonw test.py "a b"
original argc=4
original argv[0] = "/Applications/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/python"
original argv[1] = "test.py"
original argv[2] = "a"
original argv[3] = "b"
modified argc=4
modified argv[0] = "/Applications/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/python"
modified argv[1] = "test.py"
modified argv[2] = "a"
modified argv[3] = "b"

and with quotes:

bash-2.05a$ pythonw test.py "a b"
original argc=3
original argv[0] = "/Applications/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/python"
original argv[1] = "test.py"
original argv[2] = "a b"
modified argc=3
modified argv[0] = "/Applications/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/python"
modified argv[1] = "test.py"
modified argv[2] = "a b"


From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 21 08:29:35 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:29:35 GMT
Subject: Does Python (or psyco) already do this optimisation?
References: <mailman.1037861909.23049.python-list@python.org> <m3n0o3uz8h.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1037868029.21436.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3r8dft5pi.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:

> Okay.  That answers whether base Python (non-psyco) currently does
> this. Thank-you for confirming what I'd assumed regarding the current
> operation.
> 
> Any idea (anyone) whether the outlined approach has been attempted for
> global-variable access optimisation?  i.e. is this an explored and
> deemed-dead path, or something new?

Neither :) There are some patches that do roughly what you're talking
about on sf -- I think, I'd have to admit I haven't read any of the
proposals especially closely -- but noones working on them actively
right now.  If you have time, picking one of them up and working it
into being ready for inclusion would be appreciated, I think.  Though
it might be getting a bit late for 2.3.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Remember - if all you have is an axe, every problem looks 
  like hours of fun.                                        -- Frossie
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Thu Nov  7 17:54:02 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 22:54:02 GMT
Subject: default argument depending on another argumen?
References: <aqeqff$92dk3$2@ID-165840.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrnaslroa.kf.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Marco Herrn wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Hi, 
> 
> I want to define a function like this:
> 
> def foo(self, bar, x= bar.x):
>     ....
>     pass
> 
> Now I have the problem that 'bar' isn't really known when defining this
> function.
> So how can I achieve this behaviour?

There's a FAQ entry o this, too IIRC :-)

The workaround looks like this:

def foo(self, bar, x=None):
    if x is None:
        x = bar.x
    ...

-- Gerhard


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Nov  6 13:35:24 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 18:35:24 GMT
Subject: Subclassing the min() build-in function?
References: <18eef4ae.0211060911.2c0a7731@posting.google.com> <aqblbq$dta$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Mhdy9.2828$h%5.100861@newsb.telia.net>

Eddie Corns wrote:

> The last example shows that you might want to check whether 'a' is a sequence
> if that's ever likely to happen.  Using __builtins__.min is easier than making
> a local copy of the standard min which could have been done by:

never use __builtins__ -- it's an implementation detail.

to make sure you get the right builtins, import __builtin__ (no plural s) and
access the functions via that module.

</F>




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Nov 14 06:26:57 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:26:57 +0000
Subject: windll event loop leaks
Message-ID: <wc5tAKABi409EwqD@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi, I'm trying to implement a calldll/windll backend for the anygui
project. I have working code, but it leaks so I'm looking for assistance
with how one should program/debug such a loop.

My test prog is a simple blank window. Using process explorer I can see
that the working memory increases when I just move the mouse around over
the window.

For comparison I tried Sam Rushing's dynwin/button.py and lo and behold
it also leaks.

The pythonwin backend which has a similar structure doesn't leak.

The loop I use is just
        while user32.GetMessage(msg, 0, 0, 0):
                try:
                        user32.TranslateMessage(msg)
                        user32.DispatchMessage(msg)
                except:
                        logTraceback(None)

and my test seems to just end up calling the default window procedure
using user32.DefWindowProc(hwnd, msg, wParam, lParam).

Any help gratefully received. FWIW I'm using Python-2.2.2 Win2K sp2
-- 
Robin Becker


From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Thu Nov 14 16:41:49 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:41:49 GMT
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <4STA9.9987$744.345722@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <jc58tugirbnbtn1i7e2kf7of4l3ltt665e@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:39:28 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>
wrote:
(edit)
>Python has a few dozen built-in functions.  I wouldn't _expect_ MOST of
>them to be "immediately obvious" to somebody who has not even bothered
>glancing at the docs, or trying e.g help(zip) at the prompt in an
>interactive session.

A good point. Python is pretty darn small.  O'Reilly's Python Pocket
Reference for Python 2 is 124 pages, and only because the major
modules are referenced starting at page 65.  And the language is
pretty well covered in those 64 pages, it is rare I need any
documentation beyond the Pocket Reference, even when doing thing that
would be considered tricky in other languages, like handling attribute
access on an object programmatically.

Manuel


From simon at callan.demon.co.uk  Thu Nov  7 14:45:02 2002
From: simon at callan.demon.co.uk (Simon Callan)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:45:02 GMT
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
References: <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b7ccd914b.simon@satin.callan.demon.co.uk>

In message <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list at python.org>
          Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Dave Reed wrote:
> 
> > I've been using Python for my own projects (from short scripts to
> > 25,000 line apps) for almost three years now and can't imagine
> > using anything else right for anything that wasn't extremely
> > computationally expensive. After attending the panel, I talked my
> > other colleagues into using it for our CS 1 course this fall. The
> > only thing that bothers me about Python for teaching is the lack
> > of enforced private members for classes. As an experienced
> > programmer, I can live with that because I know better, but I
> > don't know whether the students will believe me when I tell them
> > it's a bad idea to directly access them outside of classes :-)
> 
> Who cares if they believe you though, and why should they anyway?
> Part of becoming a good programmer is getting bit by taking
> shortcuts (over doing it the "right" way), learning from it, and
> moving on - and it's a great thing to learn through experience that
> the prof might actually know what  he's talking about! :)

If you are feeling cruel, you could give them a library that has both
exposed internals, and proper interface functions, and then halfway
through the course, change the library so that anyone who doesn't use
the correct interface finds that subtle bugs have been introduced into
their code.

Simon



From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Tue Nov 19 11:24:38 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 16:24:38 GMT
Subject: converting python scripts to exe
References: <mailman.1037718394.14106.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnatkpc6.150.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <mailman.1037718394.14106.python-list at python.org>, asdfasd asdfasdf wrote:
> hi

Hi "asdfasd asdfasdf",

> i have a python script and this script calls another program by using
> os.system() function. This program needs a configuration file as input.
> i converted this python script to exe using py2exe utility and removed
> the configuration file as this configuration file contains passwords and
> such...

Why don't you simply convert your configuration file into a Python module
with the appropriate constants?
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From wasjaja at gmx.de  Sat Nov 16 06:40:30 2002
From: wasjaja at gmx.de (Christian Rapp)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:40:30 +0100
Subject: Get Stdout from external script startet through python
Message-ID: <ar5aog$53i$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Hello,

I need to start an external script from inside python. This works just fine.
The called script produces some output on StandardOut, that I need within
the python-script. How do I get this Output into python?
Any suggestions? Please answer!

Greets
Christian Rapp

--
"We build software like cathedrals!
First we build them; then we pray!"
(Author unknown)




From imbosol at vt.edu  Sun Nov 10 17:44:43 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:44:43 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqjr09$qbg$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <slrnasr9v1.267f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <tyfof8x1rkf.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <aqmqma$nsd$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> writes:
> 
>> As cool as Lisp is, it is too low-level,
> 
> This must be some usage of the term "low-level" with which I was not
> previously familiar.

I mean close to the compiler.


>> The real problem is that, while Python makes a significant effort to
>> accomodate human thinking (i.e., Python lets programmers think like
>> humans instead of machines a lot of the time), Lisp doesn't put a high
>> priority on this.
> 
> Funny, I find that Lisp offers me great help in concentrating on what
> I want to do, rather than the details of how I am going to make the
> machine do it.

Of course it does, but that is not exactly what I was saying.  I'm
very familiar with how Lisp allows you to write embedded languages
that let you approach human thinking as close as you want.

But to write macro, you have to think at a level closer to the
machine.  You have to think about expressions as objects.  That is
thinking like a machine (like software, not like hardware) as opposed
to thinking like a human.

You can say, "I won't use the advanced stuff that requires me to think
like a machine," but then Lisp is pointless, because then it's nothing
but a hard to read, complicated, and faster Python.


>> Python uses infix notation for math.  Most humans were brought up to
>> understand infix.
> 
> So download an infix notation macro ...

As if anyone really does this.  (Shut up, I know they do.)


>> Python is more like C than Lisp at all levels.
> 
> ?
> [snip]

You misunderstood (because I stated it ambiguously):

Python is more like C than Lisp is like C at all levels.  I hope you
won't try to argue that point by point.  ("They both are native
compilers," ok that's one thing.)


>> There are many, many factors that determine the poularity of a
>> langauge.  In this case, I think the main factor is that Python just
>> thinks more like we do than Lisp.
> 
> I would say that the biggst ones (in no particular order) are
> 
> - Python is simpler than Lisp. Entry is easier.

Well, see, I think that's because it's closer to human thinking.  I'm
a step ahead of you.


> - Most people _know_ that Lisp is a slow, arcane language with the
>  list as the only data type (and other such lies). Such lies get
>  repeated, and as a consequence most people don't bother to give Lisp
>  a single look. Python does not suffer from this.

Well, people say Python is slow, and that isn't a lie.  :-)  I'm sure
the lies have something to do with it.  


> - Batteries included: Python's library of packages is larger and more
>  rapidly growing.

I definitely agree this is a very big factor.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From mwh at python.net  Fri Nov 15 06:25:27 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:25:27 GMT
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org> <yu99u1ijeehm.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <7h3d6p7xelx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Andrew Koenig <ark at research.att.com> writes:

> Simon> I doubt that the C / C++ reference includes examples on slicing
> Simon> lists and using dictionaries, whereas the Python reference
> Simon> would *have* to, as these constructs are integral to the
> Simon> language.
> 
> You might be surprised what you would find in the C++ standard library...

This is the hoary old language/library thing isn't it?  Not that C++
gets to be called "simple" or "small" on either count.

C without it's library would get a rating of "useless"... guess this
is true for most languages, but C more than most.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  languages shape the way we think, or don't.
                                        -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp


From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Wed Nov 27 14:39:52 2002
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:39:52 +0100
Subject: Problem with paths on Win 9x
References: <uu4hdcoactl7a@news.supernews.com> <artm3u$18mi$1@serv.vrn.ru> <uu4pbuofg1dhb8@news.supernews.com> <uu7ov1nva2gf07@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <as376l$ljg$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> schreef in bericht
news:uu7ov1nva2gf07 at news.supernews.com...
>
> "John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote in message
> news:uu4pbuofg1dhb8 at news.supernews.com...
> >
> While I still haven't figured out why it isn't working as written,
> it does work with a full path name in quotes, starting with c:\.
> No relative path works.
>
> Is it possible that Python doesn't use the Python path for
> parameters to the Python command?
>
> John Roth
>
I did not read your original problem. However I can tell you that you can
make sure that your path is included in the Python path by making a very
small <pathname>.pth file, with the full pathname as text in the file. This
small file should be in your main Python directory.

regards Gerrit

--
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/





From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 18 04:55:12 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:55:12 GMT
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org> <ANLA9.10384$Yw.422374@news2.tin.it> <3DD3A563.B781BE58@hotmail.com> <3DD850D3.8030207@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <4O2C9.22714$744.832177@news1.tin.it>

Greg Ewing wrote:

> Alan Kennedy wrote:
> 
>> class emptyGenerator:
>> 
>>     def __init__(self):
>>         raise StopIteration()
>> 
>> def emptyGen():
>>     yield emptyGenerator()
> 
> This is quite nice, but it's misnamed slightly.
> Something called xxxGenerator should be returning
> an iterator when you call it, but this isn't.
> 
> It would be nicer if it were called Nothing.
> Then you could write
> 
>    def emptyGen():
>       yield Nothing()
> 

It seems to me that there's no real usefulness in making Nothing a class -- 
it just takes an extra statement or so to come to the key raise statement.  

So why not use a function instead:

def Nothing(): raise StopIteration

def emptyGen(): yield Nothing()


Alex



From jorgencederberg at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  5 08:26:01 2002
From: jorgencederberg at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Cederberg?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:26:01 +0100
Subject: bug report w\o registering
References: <mailman.1036471806.10073.python-list@python.org> <aq8cmh$gcq$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <JFPx9.2222$DQ5.1935@news.get2net.dk>

"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote in message news:aq8cmh$gcq$1 at news.hccnet.nl...
> On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:49:20 +1100, "Delaney, Timothy"
> <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
> 
> >> From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl [mailto:anton at vredegoor.doge.nl]
> >> 
> >> Here's a bug report. I don't want to register at SourceForge now
> >> (browser settings etc.). Sorry for the inconvenience.
> >
> >If you do not submit to sourceforge, the bug report *will* be lost.
> 
> If you do not read the traceback you will not detect the bug.
> 

Hi,

Please see section 6.8 in the Library reference ( http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-popen2.html ), it clearly states how popen2.popen2 should be called. Example

>>> import os, popen2
>>> infile, outfile = os.popen2("dir", "b", -1)
>>> outfile, infile = popen2.popen2("dir", -1, "b")
>>>

Regards
Jorgen


From imbosol at vt.edu  Fri Nov 15 00:08:25 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:08:25 -0500
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <ar1buq$1ib4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <m2wunfh1y4.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <ar2bqj$e5a$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Paul Foley wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:33:33 -0800, Russell E Owen wrote:
> 
>> On the other hand, I like zip just fine (though I lament the lack of an 
>> unzip counterpart).
> 
> Eh?  Zip is its own inverse!


Sure?

>>> a = [(1,2,3,4),(5,6,7,8)]
>>> zip(zip(a))
[(((1, 2, 3, 4),),), (((5, 6, 7, 8),),)]



-- 
CARL BANKS


From owen at nospam.invalid  Thu Nov 14 18:33:33 2002
From: owen at nospam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:33:33 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ar1buq$1ib4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d at posting.google.com>,
 marvelan at hotmail.com (M) wrote:

>The new enumerate or zip function. If you look at the code using this function 
>it is not at all obvious what the code does...Generators 
>are another thing that are just horrible. They just don't work in a way
>that one would expect from previous experience.

I agree with some of this and am always glad to see discussions like 
this. I hope you don't get too many dismissive replies -- they often 
seem to surface when one discusses warts.

I think generators were done rather poorly in that there is no special 
statement to indicate a generator (something many of us lobbied for at 
the time). As a result you have to look through the code to see whether 
it's a function or a generator, looking for that magic "yield" statement 
-- which can be quite buried, especially in a long function (or is that 
a generator? damn!).

As a concept, I feel generators and iterators are well worth learning 
and using. I make pretty heavy use of them and am glad to be saving 
myself the code I'd otherwise have to write. On the other hand:
- There is some area of all this I still find confusing. it's hard to 
put my finger on, but I'm not always sure whether I should be obtaining 
an iterator and then using it in a for loop or defining __iter__ (or is 
it iter?) and using my object directly in a for loop. Also, I'm not 
always sure about iterators or generators that call iterators or 
generators.
- Iterators have some nasty pitfalls. For instance on a file you cannot 
reliably do this:
# read some data
for line in file:
  # process the data, break partway through
# read more data:
for line in file: (or maybe that works but file.readline() will not)
You will often lose data--the first "for" loop reads ahead for 
efficiency and the later read misses all that data.


Map, reduce and their ilk are quite specialized. I usually (but not 
always) find that using them makes my code harder to understand, 
probably due to the need to pass in a function. I suspect a big reason 
they're in the language is they're so much faster than doing the same 
jobs with other constructs. 

On the other hand, I like zip just fine (though I lament the lack of an 
unzip counterpart). I find it simple and straightforward, though it's 
not something I use every day.

Another wart, in my mind, is that map and zip (which are closely 
related) handle a set of lists of nonequal lengths in different ways. 
I'd much rather have seen consistency between them, and preferably a way 
to specify a modifier to get the other behavior (for lists of unequal 
lengths). The lack of consistency is all the more surprising to me 
because zip was introduced fairly recently, long after map was well 
established.


How do you feel about list comprehensions? To me they look a bit like 
line noise, but I love them and use them heavily. them. I find myself 
wshing there was a similar construct for creating dictionaries.

-- Russell


From jef.mangelschots at iname.com  Fri Nov 15 13:36:04 2002
From: jef.mangelschots at iname.com (Jef Mangelschots)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:36:04 GMT
Subject: redirecting output from spawned processes
Message-ID: <3dd53e37.86527109@news.genuity.net>

How do I redirect the output of 'someapp' to the file log_file ?


           log_file = 'c:\output.log'

           os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, 'some_app', 'p1', 'p2')



From Oschler at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  6 22:36:58 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 03:36:58 GMT
Subject: [Jython] Pass variable or class reference to PythonInterpreter?
Message-ID: <udly9.44909$Lg2.12278128@news2.news.adelphia.net>

I know I can compile a Jython class and then have it accessible as a true
Java class to other java code. But I'm wondering if I can pass a variable or
class reference to an instance of PythonInterpreter?  For example:

    private void CallInterpreter()
    {
        String theString = "Hello";

        PythonInterpreter interp = new PythonInterpreter();

        // Here I enter a loop receiving python commands and passing them to
"interp.exec()"
        // So how could I give "interp" access to "theString" so commands
passed to "exec()"
        //  can see it, print it, change it, etc?
    }

Is there a way to do this?

thx





From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov 12 13:30:23 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:30:23 -0600
Subject: Optimisation problem
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D5F93B@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: gabor [mailto:gabor at realtime.sk]
> 
> On Tue, 2002-11-12 at 16:50, Michael Hudson wrote:
> > anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:
> > > m,x,y,z = self.matrix,self.x,self.y,self.z
> > > 
> > > This is faster
> > 
> > Don't be so sure: this creates a tuple.
> > 
> > 
> this is interesting....
> 
> you're saying that for example
> 
> x,y = 2,4 
> 
> creates a tuple?
> 
> i thought thatr x,y=2,4 is the same as x=2;y=4
> 
> bye,
> gabor

Nope; when declaring tuples, unless stated otherwise,
using parenthesis is optional; so you are in fact creating
a tuple on both sides of the assignment, and unpacking
it into variables on the left side.

HTH (Handle This Harefully)

-gustavo



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Nov  6 11:35:00 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:35:00 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
 <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net>
 <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com>
 <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <mailman.1036579568.14685.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HgCg$UA0SUy9EweV@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1036579568.14685.python-list at python.org>, Carel
Fellinger <carel.fellinger at chello.nl> writes
>On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 09:07:57AM +0000, Robin Becker wrote:
>...
>> Isn't it a commonplace that the n x m translation problem is best solved
>> by having a common intermediate? This seems more efficient when 
>
>Yep, it is a commonplace, but that doesn't make it true:)
>
>You see, for the common constructs this might be true, but each
>language has it weird corners and for those you'll end up with
>language pair specific translations inside the intermediate language,
>i.e. if there *is* such a translation. There will always be some left
>overs that can't be (easily) translated.  e.g. suppose one of the
>languages support continuations, but the others don't, bad luck.
....yes I understand that .NET and Python have some disputes about
universality :)
-- 
Robin Becker


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Mon Nov 11 10:39:05 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:39:05 -0600
Subject: writing from file into dictionary
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D39F56@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Alex Martelli [mailto:aleax at aleax.it]
> 
> On Monday 11 November 2002 01:15 pm, Brad Hards wrote:
> > On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:16, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > <snip>
> >
> > > Assuming the trailing colon at the end of the 'rewrite' part
> > > (and anything following it, such as the comment in the last
> > > line) is to be removed; and that corresponding to each head
> > > you want a list of the possible rewrites for that head;
> >
> > Can I try an explanation?
> 
> Yes.  Python 1.5.2 idioms equivalent to this statement include:
> 
> if not grammardict.has_key(head):
>     grammardict[head] = []
> grammardict[head].append(rewrite)
> 
>

I feel a better way than the previous snip would be:

   try:
      grammardict[head].append(rewrite)
   except KeyError:
      grammardict[head] = [ rewrite ]

This would have the advantage of only indexing 'head' twice in the
worst case --when it's not present in the dictionary--, and only
one time, once it's been inserted.

I haven't done any timing, anybody has?  It just "feels" cleaner.
*sigh* Python's made me actually *seek* exception handlers,
so much for staying away from then, back in my c++ days.

Good luck y'all.


OK OK OK OK OK

Do I did a bit of trivial timing on a few functions which implement
checking/adding to a dictionary using setdefault, has_key or try/except,
and the results surprise me somewhat.  I'm using Py 2.2, just in
case things have changed.

The functions take two lists as arguments: the list of dictionary
keys, and a list of items which are appended to lists which
are inserted in the dictionary at those keys.  It's just two
for loops, the outer iterating over the keys, the inner loop
over the items.

Using keys=range(100), items=range(10):
   test_setdefault() --> 8.562000 ms/call
   test_haskey()     --> 6.700000 ms/call
   test_except()     --> 8.592000 ms/call

huh!  says me.  I thought setdefault() was more efficient
than this.  Maybe it's the keys/items ratio, let's check:

Using keys=range(1000), items=range(1):
   test_setdefault() --> 13.259000 ms/call
   test_haskey()     --> 13.509000 ms/call
   test_except()     --> 41.190000 ms/call

ouch, again.  Let's switch the ratio over to the other side:

Using keys=range(10), items=range(1000)
   test_setdefault() --> 8.201000 ms/call
   test_haskey()     --> 6.029000 ms/call
   test_except()     --> 4.587000 ms/call

Ah! Vindicated! Let's make it a bit more extreme:

Using keys=range(2), items=range(500):
   test_setdefault() --> 8.752000 ms/call
   test_haskey()     --> 6.259000 ms/call
   test_except()     --> 4.557000 ms/call


Interesting; I hope this clears things up a bit, it did
for me, a lot :-)

-gustavo

pd: Have a nice monday :-)



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov  1 17:08:36 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Nov 2002 23:08:36 +0100
Subject: Abort in garbage collector in 2.2.2
References: <871c2723.0211011234.6d807ec0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3bs59lz8b.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

x0phe at netscape.net (Christophe) writes:

> Any idea what could cause this?

Are you using any additional C modules, beyond what the standard
distribution provides?

It would be interesting to see the value of gc_refs for the object for
which the assertion fails, i.e. the value of

  unreachable->gc.gc_next->gc.gc_refs

As an assertion, it is supposed to never happen. If it happens anyway,
the most likely reason is that some buggy code has stomped over the gc
data structures.

It would be also interesting to see whether the object itself is
meaningful, i.e. what is its ob_refcnt field, and its ob_type->tp_name
field?

Regards,
Martin


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov  5 19:59:56 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 00:59:56 GMT
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com> <aq6qun$ib4$0@216.39.172.122> <2259b0e2.0211050956.5da2c074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aq9pic$pgt$0@216.39.172.122>

On 5 Nov 2002 09:56:54 -0800, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<aq6qun$ib4$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
>> Well, they don't count, so if you want to count you have to throw in
>> something extra. E.g., you could do this, to insert a delimiter after
>> a closing right paren, and then split on the delimiter. Probably not
                                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> wonderfully efficient, and I am just duplicating what you did, except
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-[1]

>> the regex separates the chunks for me.
>> 
>>  >>> import re
>>  >>> rx = re.compile(r'([()]|[^()]*)')
>>  >>> class Addelim:
>>  ...     def __init__(self): self.parens=0
>>  ...     def __call__(self, m):
>>  ...         s = m.group(1)
>>  ...         if s=='(': self.parens+=1
>>  ...         if self.parens==1 and s==')':
>>  ...             self.parens=0
>>  ...             return s+'\x00'
>>  ...         if s==')': self.parens -=1
>>  ...         return s
>>  ...
>>  >>> for e in rx.sub(Addelim(),exp).split('\x00'): print e
>>  ...
>>  (a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)
>>  +f(s1)
>> 
>> Where exp was
>>  >>> exp
>>  '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Bengt Richter
>
>Very interesting approach. But it is even more interesting to compare
Yes, I had just learned from a post of Alex M that sub can take a function,
so I thought it would be interesting to use it ;-)

>its
>speed with the simple minded approach. I thought your algorithm was
>going to
>be the fastest, since you do not split the initial string chars by
I didn't think so [1] ;-)
>chars in Python, but let the regular expression do the job.
Well, doing a job that doesn't really need to be done never increases speed ;-)

I.e., for your original problem, there is no need to create an alternative string
with delimiters after expressions, never mind  to split that string again to get
at just the first item. All that's needed is to look at the input string and count
to find out where the first expression ends.

The question then becomes, what is the fastest way to look for parentheses and make
sure you've counted some before detecting balanced count.

If parentheses were separated by thousands of characters, I would expect that a regex search
or finditer for [()] would go faster than a simple s[i] indexed scan, but for short expressions
such as the example, there's probably a crossover point. Certainly '(x)' can be scanned brute force
faster than you can get results from a regex object method.

For speed, I think it might be faster to count position but not use it to get the
characters, e.g.,

 >>> def get_1st(exp):
 ...     parens=i=0
 ...     for c in exp:
 ...         i += 1
 ...         if c=='(': parens+=1
 ...         elif c==')':
 ...             parens -=1
 ...             if not parens: return exp[:i]
 ...
 >>> exp = '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
 >>> get_1st(exp)
 '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)'

This is a little different from Lee Harr's post (which BTW looks to me
like it depends on the first char being '('). I'd expect the above to run a
little faster.

>However a simple benchmark (not subtracting the overhead times) gives:
>
>parenthesized_group:  130-140 microseconds
>Addelim:           620-640 microseconds
Yes, Addelim has calling overhead for one, and is creating a new string by substitution
for another, so it's doing a lot of un-needed work.
>
>The simple minded approach is more than four-five times faster!
>
>I think this is rather instructive. Addelim is particular inefficient
>for
>long expressions, since it analizes the full expression whereas
>parenthesized_group stops at the end of the first parenthesized group.
Sure. The cost of generalizing requirements instead of sticking to specs ;-)

>For fun I run Addelim on exp*100 (i.e. the 100 times the original
>string): it takes more than 50000 microseconds whereas
>parenthesized_group
>is still on 140 microseconds.
Not exactly unanticipated, I'm sure ;-)
>
>It is good to have yet another proof of the dangers involved with
>regular
>expressions !

There are dangers in drawing too general conclusions from particular
examples too ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From rmunn at pobox.com  Tue Nov 26 18:36:35 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:36:35 GMT
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net> <slrnau5ahl.q7v.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <mailman.1038264696.9583.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnau81jc.ubk.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Cliff Wells <LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> --=-FK+OtUyvyIb2iy15XR3T
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> On Mon, 2002-11-25 at 14:50, Robin Munn wrote:
>> Timothy Rue <threeseas at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> [Snip a large IRC log]
>> > ThreeSeas I'm a genius... If I can't answer your question I will try an=
> d make
>>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> > out that you don't know what you are talking about..... but are there r=
> eally
>> > 120 users here that hail to ...... dash
>>=20
>> A free piece of advice for you. It's been my experience, along with the
>> experience of many others, that anybody who claims publicly to be a
>> genius:
>>=20
>> a) Almost certainly has an ego problem, and
>>=20
>> b) Usually isn't worth listening to.
> 
> I would shorten the second to
> 
> b) Usually isn't.

Except that they usually are, at least by the definition of "Genius:
someone with IQ >= N" (where N, IIRC, is something around 130). Of
course, we know how utterly meaningless IQ tests are when it comes to
measuring "intelligence" -- but the kind of person who will publicly
proclaim (him|her)self a genius is also the kind of person who will
stubbornly argue for hours about dictionary definitions, completely
ignoring the point about the usefulness of IQ tests.

So I decided to bypass that fruitless argument by not questioning his
claim to be a genius.

> 
> It's odd how someone who purports to be a genius can be so stupid when
> it comes to dealing with people.  Since he seems to be incapable of
> communicating with anyone on any level, I wonder how he is able to
> compare his own intelligence with that of others.

By IQ test results, of course. How else?

Yes, I know IQ test results aren't worth the paper they're printed on
when it comes to measuring any kind of "real" intelligence level (by
which I mean the ability to actually achieve complex tasks). And I know
that comparing IQ "scores" is nothing more than an empty bragging
contest. But it wasn't worth getting in that argument with him. The only
reason I posted any response to Mr. Rue was, basically, that I feel
sorry for him. He appears to be the kind of person whose overinflated
ego will ultimately bring them nothing but suffering. And yes, the
chances of getting through to him and helping deflate his ego are only
slightly greater than a snowflake's chance on the surface of the Sun.
But every now and then, someone ought to try.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Tue Nov 12 04:43:25 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:43:25 -0000
Subject: [Jython] out of memory during jythonc compilation
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDAEB@intrepid>

> From:	Robert Oschler [SMTP:Oschler at earthlink.net]
> > I've had similar problems quite a while ago when Jython was called
> > JPython and had version numbers less than two. Increasing the heap size
> > helped, but you may want to try something more substantial than 50 MB.
> > Give it everything your machine has. I managed to compile everything
> > when the heapsize was at least 256 MB. A fast machine comes handy, too
> :-)
> 
> Yikes!  Ok, will do.  Unfortunately all I have is 256MB and unfortunately
> Dell saw fit to only put two DIMM slots in the system.  Guess I'll have to
> replace the 2 128's with 256's.
 
Always a good idea to upgrade - Java *loves* lots of memory.

But using the -mx switch changes the *maximum* heap size - it will only use
what it needs. (The default value is 64MB.) And if it needs more than you
have, then it will just go to swap. It won't fail, just run slowly.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk





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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From theller at python.net  Thu Nov 14 08:40:35 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 14:40:35 +0100
Subject: windll event loop leaks
References: <wc5tAKABi409EwqD@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <smy4xrpv.fsf@python.net> <tti68IAu$509Ewaa@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <heekxoa4.fsf@python.net>

> >Sounds like a leak in calldll?
> >
> One thought that occurs is that the system API linkage might be
> different. Any thoughts on that? If that were the case I would assume
> leakage in the stack.

Just did a quick test with a system function with __stdcall linkage,
and this doesn't seem to have problems:

from dynwin import windll
kernel32 = windll.module("kernel32")
while 1:
    kernel32.GetModuleHandle(0)
    
> >
> >Another approach ;-) would be to give up calldll/windll and try the
> >ctypes module - this way you would have me debugging the thing (in
> >case it leaks).
> >
> >Thomas
> Well it's only a few days old according to the announcement I just found
> :) 

The announcement and the distribution is only a few days old, ctypes
is much older, and in active use for quite some time (by me).
OTOH, I wouldn't be too surprised if there are stiill bugs in it.

> 
> I will certainly give this a whirl. It doesn't provide a callback
> generatr, but I suppose I can still use Sam's gencb.

Sure does it! It's just not yet documented, although I believe
there are examples in the test directory.

Paul Moore posted even a nice example for a callback here
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/python-list/1425385

> 
> Does ctypes use the FFI library for accessing external DLLs? That way it
> would map to other platforms fairly easily.

No. It uses very old code of mine to call these functions,
but I'm already looking into more portable ways to do it.

Anthony Green's libffi is my favorite currently.

Thomas


From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Nov 20 14:30:03 2002
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J Lee)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 11:30:03 -0800
Subject: timeoutsocket & sendall / Python 2.1
References: <mailman.1037732191.28495.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c177ebeb.0211201130.852519@posting.google.com>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1037732191.28495.python-list at python.org>...
> On 19 Nov 2002, John J Lee wrote:
[...]
> > > I'm surprised that nobody has bumped into this before, which is
> > > why I'm posting it here -- I have a feeling I must be missing
> > > something.
[...]
> Yeah, it looks like timeoutsocket should get a sendall wrapper too - why 
> don't you submit a patch to the module's author. 

Thanks, Dave.  This is one of those 'so simple I must have made a
mistake' things, so I'm glad to have somebody else check it.

I sent the patch to the author, but no answer, so I assume he's not
maintaining it any more.

> Perhaps the reason that nobody has raised this concern has to do with the
> facts that sendall is relatively new,

Not *that* new -- 2.1 and 2.2 have been out for a while now.

> lots of socket code is non-blocking (and thus wouldn't use timeoutsocket),

And lots of code isn't.

> and in Python 2.3 sockets have timeout functionality built in?

But of course 2.3 isn't even officially out yet.


John


From s at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 26 10:14:23 2002
From: s at hotmail.com (Stephan)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:14:23 +0100
Subject: building database form-applications
References: <TmLE9.5$Jm2.888963@news.salzburg-online.at> <mailman.1038322239.31366.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qaME9.7$Q4.758927@news.salzburg-online.at>

What are 'SQL aware widgets'?

Phil Thompson wrote:
> On Tuesday 26 November 2002 2:19 pm, Stephan wrote:
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>I want to evaluate tools for building Python-based form-applications for
>>database interaction. So far I have looked into Boa Constructor and
>>Black Adder which both seem to be promising. But what other tools can be
>>recommended? And which is best equipped for rapid GUI development?
> 
> 
> If you want develop GUIs with SQL aware widgets then look at the combination 
> of PyQt, the eric IDE and Qt Designer.
> 
> Although BlackAdder is built on the same technology it does not yet support 
> the SQL aware widgets in it's form designer, nor does it include support for 
> Qt's SQL classes in its version of PyQt. However, depending on what platform 
> you want to support, and whether you wish to sell your applications, 
> BlackAdder may be a better bet - and stick with "dumb" forms.
> 
> Phil
> 



From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Tue Nov 12 07:52:10 2002
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 12:52:10 GMT
Subject: How to create and interactive, distributable program?
References: <3dcfa0e3.921157@news.jaring.my>
Message-ID: <aqqthq$odk3n$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Kenneth Gomez <kennethg at pd.jaring.my> wrote:
> Hello all,


> To do all of this, my questions are , can Python handle the
> mathematics, e.g. does Python have a subroutine to inverse a matrix,
> or find the modulus of a number,....? Or, is it like C, where I have
> to write the subroutine myself?

Have a look at NumPy http://numpy.sf.net
It includes matrix/vector handling (like MatLab, sometimes even
better :-) and some linear algebra. But don't take the new
version "numarray", it's still under development.
But: these routines do not handle sparse matrices in an efficient
way, afaik you'll have to use full matrices.

Modulus is a function in the python core.


> Second, will I be able to create the GUI explained above within 3
> months?

Take wxPython.

> Third, can I make the GUI into an executable file so that I can run it
> off the laptop/workstation that will be used for the presentation?

Take py2exe

> Cheers,
> Kenneth Gomez.

Greetings, Uwe

-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt      Computer science is no more about Computers,
uwe.schmitt at num.uni-sb.de      than astronomy is about telescopes. (Dijkstra)
http://www.procoders.net           


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov  3 15:34:24 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 15:34:24 -0500
Subject: Parsing & question about usages off classes!
References: <docx9.172161$Mf5.8344841@Flipper> <iWcx9.81076$TD1.3676165@news2.tin.it> <0efx9.175905$Mf5.8592441@Flipper>
Message-ID: <3dc58868@news.sentex.net>

Frans wrote:
> I want to create several new list. The name off the new lists will come 
> from another list. That way I can create several lists, depending on the 
> data received from logfiles. Is that possible ?
> 
> Or isnt that a good idea either ? :)

Correct, this is also not a good idea.

> So basicly:
> my_list['some','data']
> variable = my_list[0]
> variable = list
> 
> Now this doesnt work, but the result I want is a new list with the name 
> 'some'.

Now why would you want that?  You would have to write code in advance
that uses the variable name, even before you know what the variable
name is going to be?  Rethink the approach: you can't get where you
want to be from here.

Can you explain why you think you want a new list with the name "some"?
If you can dig down to your real requirements and express them here,
we can probably show you how to approach the problem in a more
workable fashion.

-Peter



From john.abel at pa.press.net  Mon Nov 25 08:42:09 2002
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:42:09 +0000
Subject: Multi Recipients With smtplib?
Message-ID: <3DE228B1.1060802@pa.press.net>

Hi,

I am trying to send a mail, to multiple recipients, without much 
success.  A single mail address works fine, but when I add another, 
using a comma to separate the addresses, the second address fails to 
receive the mail.  Any ideas?  Here's the code I am using:

        mailMessage = "From: %s \r\nTo: %s\r\n" % (self.mailFrom, 
self.mailTo)
        mailMessage += "Subject: %s\r\n%s" % (mailSubject, mailBody)
        try:
            self.MailConn.sendmail( self.mailFrom, self.mailTo, mailMessage)
        except (smtplib.SMTPRecipientsRefused, 
smtplib.SMTPSenderRefused), ErrorMsg:
            print "There Was A Problem Sending The Mail.  Reason: %s" % 
ErrorMsg

Any help would be appreciated, as this is driving me mad!

Thanks

John






From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 27 15:38:34 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:38:34 -0600
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
In-Reply-To: <vs7auu07opjlv8enekpde94kfo241tnr5a@4ax.com> (malik m's message
 of "Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:47:47 GMT")
References: <mailman.1038414274.6010.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnauaif6.1gv.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
	<vs7auu07opjlv8enekpde94kfo241tnr5a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m2r8d67np1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "malik" == malik m <malik_martin at hotmail.com> writes:

    malik> i didnt to import that yet but i will try even tho i think
    malik> the program did what i want it to:)

What do you think your mpg is if you drive 3 miles on a tank that
holds 2 gallons?  What does your program tell you it is .....

John Hunter



From maney at pobox.com  Sun Nov 24 19:06:41 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:06:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> </oP49ks/KPIR089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <arrpih$ba7$2@wheel2.two14.net>

Mel Wilson <mwilson at the-wire.com> wrote:
>   We've just been there. groups.google.com can bring it all
> back, although I don't offhand remember the subject.

Which of three in the last ten days do you want?  :-)

>   Basically, assignments aren't possible within
> expressions.

More fundamentally, because assignment is a statement, not an operator,
in Python.

>   One good reason for this is list packing/unpacking in
> assignments:
> 
>        a, b = 5, 8
> 
>   As it stands, this is an assignment which effectively makes
> two 2-tuples equivalent, associating `a` with the value 5,
> and `b` with the value 8.
> 
>   If `b=5` were an allowable expression, then the statement
> above would change into a 3-tuple, and a useful piece of
> semantics would be a tad more awkward.

You are also assuming that operator= would have higher precedence than
the comma.  Offhand, that seems like a mistake that could be avoided,
although it may well not be the only such complication that would arise
if operator= were to be added.

>   You could think of making an exception for `if`
> statements, but beyond an uncertain point, exceptions are
> bad for a language

Right.  If it were to be done, t'would best be done consistently.

In theory, that point is between "none" and "any"; in practice, well,
in practice it's a little different than in theory.  :-/



From bboman at research.panasonic.com  Thu Nov 14 13:31:01 2002
From: bboman at research.panasonic.com (bboman at research.panasonic.com)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 10:31:01 -0800
Subject: PEP #99484663
References: <m2isz6ue4f.fsf@desk.crynwr.com>
Message-ID: <418ab5dd.0211141031.48b7f0bf@posting.google.com>

Russell Nelson <nelson at crynwr.com> wrote in message news:<m2isz6ue4f.fsf at desk.crynwr.com>...
> Suggested PEP:
> 
> Treat { and } when encountered at the end of a statement like this:
> 
> When you see a {, generate an error if the next statement is not
> indented more than the previous statement.  When you see }, generate
> an error if the next statement is not indented less than the previous
> statement.
> 
> In this manner, people who are unable to wean themselves from silly
> syntactic block structure tokens will be happy with Python, rather
> than continually whinging about how horrible it is that indentation is
> meaningful to the program.

I also would like to see *OPTIONAL* block delimiters, but I wouldn't
do it
with {}.  It turns out that there are several keywords in Python like
"return"
"raise", "break", "continue" and "pass" that pretty much have to end a
block.  Technically "pass" doesn't have to end a block but there is no
point in putting "pass" anywhere except at a block end.

All you need to do to implement block delimiters is to have a option
to check that each block ends with one of these statements and that
these statements do not appear anywhere except at the end of a block. 
Now you have full block delimiters and complete compatibility with
normal python code!

It turns out that the python mode for emacs assumes that these keyword
end blocks and if you code this way emacs can completely recover the
indentation from the keywords.

I could go into a long explanation as to why block delimiters are
useful but I will just say that when you cut and paste a block of code
from one nested block loop into another block at a different
indentation level it is much nicer and much less error prone to just
tell emacs to re-indent the entire function than to manually adjust
each line.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov 23 14:16:58 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:16:58 -0600
Subject: Newbie : desperately need help on "import MySQLdb"
In-Reply-To: <3ddfc208$0$11853$626a54ce@news.free.fr> ("Michel COMBE"'s
 message of "Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:58:17 +0100")
References: <3ddfa321$0$18230$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1038068625.12758.python-list@python.org>
	<3ddfc208$0$11853$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <m24ra8f651.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Michel" == Michel COMBE <michel.l.combe at free.fr> writes:

    Michel> I downloaded the tar version of MySQLdb and made the build
    Michel> (not the install as I feared a version problem). I copied
    Michel> _mysql.so in /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages et Voila !

    Michel> Now I can start working :-)

Congrats!  My advice is that you are more likely to get into
versioning problems by using the rpm for part of the package and the
src for another.  Take the plunge (back up site-packages first if you
like)

  /usr/bin/python2.2 setup.py install

You'll never go back to rpm.

JDH



From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Sun Nov  3 11:04:58 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 3 Nov 2002 16:04:58 GMT
Subject: how to use smtp starttls() encryption?
References: <8f41cfd.0210101719.ad47c7@posting.google.com> <m3fzvdmsa1.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <8f41cfd.0210120805.6ced204a@posting.google.com> <m31y6vl1p0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <8f41cfd.0210162236.3e5c970a@posting.google.com> <mailman.1034855185.30941.python-list@python.org> <8f41cfd.0210211030.33365530@posting.google.com> <mailman.1035237156.20658.python-list@python.org> <8f41cfd.0210312325.7ab7969f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036139642.15906.python-list@python.org> <8f41cfd.0211011737.383e2c2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasai98.nq.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Xu, C.S. wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Gerhard,
> 
> You saved me! Why don't I need s.login(fromEmail, password) 
> to identify myself after s.starttls() ?

Because the smtp server is configured in a way that you don't? :)

> Earlier when our mail server don't require TLS, it need check mail
> before sending out, or use s.login(fromEmail, password) to identify
> myself.

'Sending out' is configured differently than receiving mail. Note that
in my example, I sent mail to your domain, using your smtp server,
which is thus already the 'final destination'.

No relaying involved here. The main point of SMTP auth is to prevent
unauthorized relaying, and therefore you require it only for mail to
domains other than yours.

For interoperability with the rest of the world, you cannot even do
otherwise, because then you could receive no more mail.

> What the hell s.starttls() is doing? There just no slightest clue
> in python lib reference.

There is. Be sure to read in the Python 2.2.x docs, as this feature
didn't exist in earlier versions.

-- Gerhard


From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 26 13:57:59 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 18:57:59 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org> <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <m28yzgz0wr.fsf@localhost.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3de3c437$0$22225$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <m28yzgz0wr.fsf at localhost.bris.ac.uk>, Michael Hudson wrote:
> grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:
> 
>> In the case of reduce:
>> 
>>   sum = reduce(operator.add, valueList)
>> 
>> How is that expressed any better with a list comprension?
> 
> It's not.  It's better expressed as a for loop, though.

sum = 0
for v in valueList:
  sum += v

I think the former is more obvious, but I guess it's a matter
of taste.

> The for loop
> might well be quicker, too (cue Alex proving me wrong :).

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Mary Tyler Moore's
                                  at               SEVENTH HUSBAND is wearing
                               visi.com            my DACRON TANK TOP in a
                                                   cheap hotel in HONOLULU!


From bh at intevation.de  Wed Nov 27 05:19:29 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 11:19:29 +0100
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org> <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3DE44D27.3030904@something.invalid> <6GH59kKkXIpD092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1038382477.9003.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6q4ra3nwlq.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> writes:

> Actually... here's an... ummm... "improved" version:
> 
> reduce = lambda func, seq, init=None:\
>          [(l.append(func(l[i],seq[i])),l[-1])
>                          for l in [[init or seq[0]]]
>                          for i in range(len(seq))][-1][1]

It doesn't work correctly:

>>> import operator
>>> reduce(operator.add, [1,2])
4

That should have been 3.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Sun Nov  3 17:57:33 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:57:33 +1300
Subject: Parsing & question about usages off classes!
References: <docx9.172161$Mf5.8344841@Flipper> <iWcx9.81076$TD1.3676165@news2.tin.it> <0efx9.175905$Mf5.8592441@Flipper> <3dc58868@news.sentex.net> <2lgx9.177762$Mf5.8693527@Flipper>
Message-ID: <3DC5A9DD.6090902@something.invalid>

Frans wrote:

> 
> So I thought I would do the following:
> 
> short=['D','H','W']
> long=['DAILY','HOURLY','WEEKLY']
> 
> information = string.split(logline,'\t')   
> 
> DAILY.append(information)


Use a dictionary indexed by the first field in the log line.
For example:

   log_dict = {} # Create an empty dictionary
   log_dict['D'] = [] # Initialise with 3 new empty lists
   log_dict['H'] = []
   log_dict['W'] = []

   ...
         # for each log line:
         information = string.split(logline,'\t')
         log_dict[information[0]].append(information)

Then log_dict['D'] will contain a list of all the log entries
beginning with 'D', etc.

If you really want them in separate variables, you could then
do

    DAILY = log_dict['D']
    HOURLY = log_dict['H']
    WEEKLY = log_dict['W']

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  9 13:55:27 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 11:55:27 -0700
Subject: [OT] Cameras (was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?)
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqgka6$t8j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqh2bo$7ti$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <aqh745$1iv$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqhata$ctr$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <7h3wunmx4j7.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqjln1$q3g$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Michael Hudson wrote:

> Totally off-topic, but hey...

Indeed :)

>> If you just want convenience for 4x6 prints from negative, a P&S is
>> fine. But even a basic SLR like a Canon Rebel is about as easy to
>> use as a P&S, while allowing you to 'go manual' when you feel like
>> it.
> 
> What strikes me is that with modern, decent print film, going manual
> -- at least wrt. exposure -- makes next to now difference.  I don't
> know enough about the area to say what's going on, but I was
> surprised.

It's the exposure latitude. Modern print films have about 5 stops of exposure 
latitude, so you can really get away with murder. On the other hand, with 
slide film a half stop off is already noticeable. I shoot mostly slides, and 
occasionally need to use a P&S, which can get a bit tricky :) But with a bit 
of luck and good optics, you can get nice shots in situations where pulling 
an SLR out might not be practical.

For this shot (http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/photo/Cotopaxi99/7.html) I 
simply couldn't stop to get my SLR out of my bag, but I had my trusty Stylus 
Epic in a jacket pocket. I took the shot without barely stopping at all, and 
it turned out nicer than all others in that climb, including the ones where I 
did pull out my SLR. As they say, it's the moment, not the equipment :)

Cheers,

f.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 10 02:41:25 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:41:25 -0500
Subject: Image merging within python - based tool (maybe OT)
References: <8ed56b42.0211092045.1e833602@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <nlmdnSmbzs48kFOgXTWcrg@comcast.com>

"R. Charles Henry" <trapforcannedmeatproduct at hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:8ed56b42.0211092045.1e833602 at posting.google.com...
> I'd like to ask the group's advice.
>
> My situation: I have two separate document images, both of the same
> format .png, .bmp, .jpg, or .tif. They are otherwise identical in
size
> and file characteristics, having been produced from a larger-than-A4
> document using an A4 flatbed scanner. Each image contains a region
of
> 'overlap' with the other.
>
> I need to find an open-source 'mosaicking' or 'blending' codebase,
> which will be capable of accepting both input images, and merging
them
> to reproduce an image of the original larger-than-A4 document.
>
> This code is to be used within a tool I am creating using python, &
> I'd like to avoid the neccessity of having to manually set reference
> points on the input images. The code itself that I'm searching for
> doesn't need to be python, just accessible from it.
>
> Since the input images are 'flat', I don't require such features as
> projection adjustment etc, I just need some form of basic automatic
> 'merging'.
>
> Would anyone have any suggestions? Any pointers at all would be very
> gratefully received.

Semi-random thoughts.  First, convert to bitmap.  Then minimize misfit
as function of x,y offset of centers or whatever.  Details depend on
nature of images.  With black/white documents, misfit is % mismatch.
You should standardize scanning process so proper offset is
approximately known and search for best fit within circumscribed
region.

Entirely different approach is to apply OCR to images and then match
text.

TJR




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 28 12:37:27 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 17:37:27 GMT
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org> <3DE4102D.7D4291F4@alcyone.com> <3DE58723.5040306@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <as5k8n$e5o$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:01:55 +1300, Greg Ewing <see_reply_address at something.invalid> wrote:

>Erik Max Francis wrote:
>
>> 
>> I think the severity of the =/== confusion problem in C has been
>> severely overrepresented in this thread.  In my opinon, in the real
>> world, among competent software eengineers, it is a tiny issue.
>
>
>I think it's too simplistic to regard the =/== confusion problem
>as the only reason to be wary of assignments in expressions.
>It also hurts readability to have expressions with assignments
>buried in them.
>
>This is a special case of the general principle that it's
>usually clearer if expressions don't have side effects.
>
OTOH, an expression is a (normally) limited programming context, and
no one seems to have a big problem with the temporary bindings created
inside list comprehensions -- even though they are *not* temporary, and
therefore *are* side effects (which IMO is a wart) ;-)

ISTM it's a question of whether making it syntactically easier is more likely
to encourage bad usage than facilitate and clarify legitimate uses.

BTW, is there anything written on what the BDFL may have in mind for
':=' and '?' and '@' etc for? I'm sure he wouldn't want to squander them
on something trivial, but I wonder if there's some indication. Similarly
for words like "on", "when", "whenever", "before", "after", "initially",
"finally", etc, etc. (is there a don't-use-in-case-this-becomes-special list?
Seems like I saw something like that somewhere).

HTG ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From s at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 26 09:19:24 2002
From: s at hotmail.com (Stephan)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:19:24 +0100
Subject: building database form-applications
Message-ID: <TmLE9.5$Jm2.888963@news.salzburg-online.at>

Hi,

I want to evaluate tools for building Python-based form-applications for 
database interaction. So far I have looked into Boa Constructor and 
Black Adder which both seem to be promising. But what other tools can be 
recommended? And which is best equipped for rapid GUI development?

Thanks for feedback,
stephan



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 27 16:02:11 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 21:02:11 GMT
Subject: re.DOTALL
References: <mailman.1038422918.16102.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as3bsj$rro$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:46:56 -0500, Irina Szabo <irina at simbiosys.ca> wrote:

>
>I need to remove all tags from  HTML files.
>
>matchstr = re.compile(r'''<.*?>''',re.DOTALL|re.MULTILINE)
>print matchstr.sub(" ", str )
                         ^^^--- BTW, using builtin names for variables is not a good idea ;-)
>
>The program works well for  tags located on one line,
>but dosn't  delete tags if  the brackets <> are on different lines, like
>
><!--
>body {  font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: 
>#000000}
>-->
>
>What is wrong? 
>
If you had posted what you actually did (noodge ;-),
it would probably have been clear, but ...

====< interactive snip >=======
 >>> aString = """
 ... something, followed by your html comment:
 ... <!--
 ... body {  font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color:
 ... #000000}
 ... -->
 ... followed by this line.
 ... """
 >>> import re
 >>> matchstr = re.compile(r'''<.*?>''',re.DOTALL|re.MULTILINE)
 >>> print matchstr.sub(" ", aString)

 something, followed by your html comment:

 followed by this line.
===============================

... works, so you must have done something else.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Nov 18 08:20:09 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:20:09 +0100
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
In-Reply-To: <20021118064744.A4002@unpythonic.net>; from jepler@unpythonic.net on Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 06:47:54AM -0600
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <ar4rgh$nj2$1@panix3.panix.com> <ar5r65$uq6$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD85526.6020606@something.invalid> <ar9oqi$oil$0@216.39.172.122> <20021118064744.A4002@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20021118142009.F30315@prim.han.de>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 04:03:30AM +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
> > IOW, IMO there ought to be a way to do a temporary global-side-effect-free
> > import and delete all traces of its having been done -- without restarting
> > the interpreter or invoking a second interpreter instance.
> 
> Let us know when you've implemented it.

yes bengt, go for it :-)

> Some of the problems:
> 
> Modules need not be side-effect-free.  For instance, the following is a
> (very harmful) legal Python module:
>     from os import system
>     system("rm -rf /")

sure, removing modules can only be as side effect free as the modules 
itself is.  You can't even reverse  print 'hello world'.

I am sure there are uses for removing module objects.  I'd recommend
going for an 'try_remove_module' function which tries to achieve 
module unloading.  It's probably neccessary to assert that there 
are no references to any objects in that to-be-removed module.  
So you might be able to say:

    import somemodule

    # do stuff with somemodule but don't permanently bind to any 
    # of its objects 

    try_remove_module(somemodule)
    del somemodule # or do a hack inside try_remove_module

    # somemodule should now be removed from memory, unless it's
    # a C-module or other special cases to be determined :-)

On a side note, yesterday i talked to a perl hacker and he said 
that mod_perl suffers a lot from interpreter bloat because it's 
very hard to unload something plus perl has memory allocation 
problems with its mutable strings (memory usage always stays at
the maximum size that string ever had). python doesn't have the latter
problem because its strings are immutable.  Don't know about
how lists and dicts are handled, though. 

So I think that e.g. apps with mod_python could benefit from 
beeing able to unload some modules which are only temporarily used
as helpers.

regards,

    holger



From mgerrans at mindspring.com  Mon Nov 11 12:12:28 2002
From: mgerrans at mindspring.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:12:28 -0800
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <mailman.1037033370.16562.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqooiu$n9m$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>

"Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> import zlib,base64;exec
zlib.decompress(base64.decodestring('eNpLtE2yNeQqz8jMSVUwtOJSSNRJsk3STtRJ5FI
oKMrMK1FI5AIAsOwJ0A=='))
>
> it's as unreadable as the best Perl code IMO

Nah, nice try, but I think the Perl is still more unreadable.




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 26 11:21:57 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 16:21:57 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <20021126043142.4323.25612.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1038295415.22435.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as0735$74d$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:19:46 -0800, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>map(), filter(), and reduce() do not represent all of the uses for filter,
>and thus, they can't all be replaced by list comps (BTW, I never used
>reduce, never understood what it was good for, and don't immediately
>see how it can be done using list-comps -- would be genuinely interested
>in seeing a couple of example if anyone's willing). 
>
I guess I'll bite:

 >>> def lcreduce(fn, seq, init=None):
 ...     return [first
 ...         for first, rest in [ init is None and
 ...             (list(seq[:1]), list(seq[1:])+[id]) or
 ...             ([init], list(seq)+[id])]
 ...         for y in rest if y is id or first.append(fn(first.pop(), y))][0][0]
 ...
 >>> seq = range(10)
 >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq)
 45
 >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq,5)
 50
 >>> seq = (1,2)
 >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq)
 3
 >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq,5)
 8
 >>> seq = [3]
 >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq)
 3
 >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq,5)
 8
 >>> seq = ()
 >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq,5)
 5
 >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 3, in lcreduce
 IndexError: list index out of range

But that last is ok:
 >>> reduce(int.__add__,seq)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: reduce() of empty sequence with no initial value

I suspect reduce is a little faster than lcreduce ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de  Thu Nov 14 09:37:01 2002
From: dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de (Joerg Woelke)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:37:01 +0100
Subject: os.system and wget
References: <7d728336.0211130756.3e39a748@posting.google.com> <m2isz1e84k.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <3DD3B50D.C6A6BA8B@felis.uni-freiburg.de>

Hi!

John Hunter wrote:

[ snip ]

>     zunbeltz> os.system('wget -q -O foo.txt http://foo.html')

[ snip ]

>   h = os.popen('wget -q -O foo1.txt http://foo.html')
>   h.close()

What for, if you don't do anything (read/write) with the pipe?
That's what os.system is for.

[ snip ]

> John Hunter

Confused, J"o!

-- 
sigfault


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Mon Nov 18 16:53:57 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:53:57 GMT
Subject: Will python binaries compiled on vs.net?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1037638533.5593.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1037638533.5593.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VjdC9.14331$nK4.35697@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Tim Peters wrote:
> I don't foresee PythonLabs getting into the VC7 business anytime soon:
> there are monetary and human costs we can't afford.  Perhaps ActiveState
> will, and/or the Python Business Forum will fund a VC7 effort, but I don't
> know.

I simply like the VC6 UI better.  I have a full VC7 installed here, but 
never use it.

Mark.



From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 27 04:55:03 2002
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 01:55:03 -0800
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <698f09f8.0211261046.582254a5@posting.google.com> <uu7ogatjhprm9b@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0211270155.207f81e@posting.google.com>

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<uu7ogatjhprm9b at news.supernews.com>...
> I could see filter and reduce as methods. Since map is a function across
> a number of input lists, I have a somewhat harder time seeing it that
> way - it looks a bit assymetric to me.

What's asymmetric is that filter and map operate over any sequence but
only return lists; if, instead, they had been methods on lists, then
implementations of other container data structures (dictionaries,
binary trees, strings, etc.) could provide their own filter and map
methods that returned values of the same type.

Reduce (which I so wish was called foldl, leaving the oppurtunity open
for a symmetric foldr) is really the only of the three
(map/filter/reduce) that makes sense as a function (rather than as a
method) since it's defined over sequences in general, and sequences
don't by nature make an appearance in its return value.

Jeremy


From soufle at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 17:41:34 2002
From: soufle at yahoo.com (noyb)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 22:41:34 GMT
Subject: Complex numbers, abs results in mag, what results in phase?
Message-ID: <071120021741272463%soufle@yahoo.com>

I am trying to find out how to get the phase or angle of a complex
number in Python 2.2.  Yes, I have Numpy installed.

I have found how to get the magnitude of a complex number, use "abs".

I have also found how to get the real and imaginary parts but am
stumped by the angle.

I am using something like:

my_complex_variable = (a +bj)

and I can do

abs(my_complex_variable) 

to get the magnitude.

I realize the angle is atan(b,a) but I need to use my_complex_variable
as input and not a,b.

Hope someone knows of a comand I am missing.

David


From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Thu Nov 14 03:54:00 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:54:00 +0100
Subject: Tkinter+CORBA+threads, two main-loops. Problems?
References: <V1oA9.7256$Y2.175@news2.bredband.com>
Message-ID: <aqvnpu$jgc$1@wanadoo.fr>

L Ekman wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to make a program that contains a CORBA server
> implemented with orbit-python-0.3.1 and a GUI implemented with
> Tkinter.
> 
> The problem is that both orbit-python-0.3.1 and Tkinter has
> "main-loops", and can not find a way to implement this in a
> single threaded program.

I once used the fnorb ORB (http://www.fnorb.org) and problem was solved in 
the ORB itself. See http://www.fnorb.org/docs/1.2/Fnorb-Guide/node50.html
It may be a solution if you can change your ORB.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From gminick at hacker.pl  Sat Nov 23 11:13:18 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:13:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: reliable tcp server holding multiple connections
Message-ID: <slrnatvnof.1qc.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Hi,

I'm trying to write a skeleton of a TCP server able to hold multiple
connections. The code is here:
    <http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/pliki/old/tools/multi_serv.py>
It works nice, but I'm sure, there're dozens of small, hard to see
and to think about bugs, and I want you to help me in tracing them ;)
Why I'm doing this? Since it's hard to find such an example in 
c.u.py archives. In howtos and documentation you'll find nothing
but some simple single server examples. I want to create a point of
reference to well-written TCP server (holding multiple connections),
but it's almost impossible without your participation :)

ps. I know about SocketServer ;)

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From maney at pobox.com  Thu Nov 14 23:39:13 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 04:39:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: questions about scope/threading
References: <aoje8k$dpn$1@newsreader.mailgate.org> <aoke4n$9o$1@panix1.panix.com> <aokrjb$eaj$1@newsreader.mailgate.org> <ar122q$gst$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ar1tph$q7$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> Thing is, while var3 is not a module global, any thread can access that
> name through Class1.var3 -- therefore, the object bound to Class1.var3
> is a completely global object, and you have to be careful what you do
> with Class1.var3 (or the object bound to it if the object is mutable).
> Tricky stuff.

I hadn't thought about Python's scoping that way before.  So anything not
"hidden" inside a function is present in the global tree of namespaces?
(or class definition.  hmmm, any others?)

<ponder>

Of course I knew that, and have used it to access modules, but somehow this
feels like a new point of view.  Interesting.


From kowk at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 18 23:31:53 2002
From: kowk at earthlink.net (Kow K)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:31:53 -0800
Subject: classifier systems re-coded in Python?
Message-ID: <FBFADFC6-FB79-11D6-98D1-00050287C0A6@earthlink.net>

On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 07:11 , Terry Reedy wrote:

>> I'm just wondering if anybody has re-coded David Goldberg's Pascal
>> implementation of John Holland's (learning) classifier system in
> Python.
>>
>> Any pointer will be appreciated.
>
> try:
>   google('Holland learning classifier Python')

Yes, I did a Google search before posting here, but I didn't get really 
relevant threads.

Kow




From mwh at python.net  Mon Nov  4 08:46:18 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:46:18 GMT
Subject: PyGTK question
References: <bondpaper-C75E1F.16013326102002@nnrp06.earthlink.net> <slrnarm8gh.2es.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <bondpaper-26050E.19230726102002@nnrp06.earthlink.net> <m2bs5c9hla.fsf@python.net> <bondpaper-3B7C19.11292902112002@nnrp06.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <lk3cqhzbzu.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Tom <bondpaper at earthlink.net> writes:

> In article <m2bs5c9hla.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> > Tom <bondpaper at earthlink.net> writes:
> > 
> > > Thanks for your help. If I compile it from source (pygtk2-1.99.10-1), 
> > > wouldn't it check for a version of python that is compatible when 
> > > running the ./configure script? 
> > 
> > God knows.  You'd have thought so, but it doesn't look like it.
> > 
> > The problem you're having is that the gtk DSO seems to be looking for
> > a wide unicoode build of Python whereas the Python you're running is
> > built for narrow unicode.
> > 
> > How many versions of Python do you have on your machine?
> 
> I have two at the moment...1.5 and 2.2. However, I have recently 
> downloaded (but not yet installed) 2.1 to see if I get different 
> results.

It's possible the pygtk configure script is finding Python 1.5, not
2.2.  Or it found 2.2 but you're trying to use it with 1.5.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
40. There are two ways to write error-free programs; only the third
    one works.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html


From Andreas.Leitgeb at siemens.at  Tue Nov 12 10:24:14 2002
From: Andreas.Leitgeb at siemens.at (Andreas Leitgeb)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:24:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnasvo0e.32k.Andreas.Leitgeb@pc7499.gud.siemens.at> <3DCFDE7A.8010404@web.de>
Message-ID: <slrnat29ke.32k.Andreas.Leitgeb@pc7499.gud.siemens.at>

Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> wrote:
>> I quote one function from AisleRiot  (game Kansas):
>> " (define (button-pressed slot-id card-list)
>> "  (and (not (= (length card-list) 0))
>> "       (is-visible? (car card-list))
>> "       (or (= slot-id 1)
>> "           (> slot-id 5))))

> If you are used to this kind of syntax, it's very simple. I don't know 
> enough Python (yet) in order to translate this, but in Java it would 
> look as follows.
> 1 boolean buttonPressed (int slotId, Vector cardList) {
> 2    return !(cardList.size() == 0) &&
> 3           cardList.get(0).isVisible() &&
> 4           ((slotId == 1) || (slotId > 5));
> 5 }

I'd have rewritten it differently (to show the point I was
trying to make by calling the scheme-snippet ugly):
  2    if (cardList.size() == 0) return false;
  3    else if (!cardList.get(0).isVisible()) return false;
  4    else return ((slotId == 1) || (slotId > 5));
Now this doesn't make a big difference here, but it makes 
a lot of a difference, once, things get longer and deeper nested.
 
> My basic message here is that you might like Common Lisp more than 
> Scheme. *nudge, nudge*
I'm not sure if I can really see the difference yet (beyond some
  differently named predefined symbols/keywords).

Since almost every modern language (worth mentioning) has the concept 
 of short cutting boolean evaluation,  one could write Lisp/Scheme
 style everywhere; Nevertheless I'm glad it's not so common anywhere 
 else.



From sundae1888 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov  1 12:30:17 2002
From: sundae1888 at hotmail.com (sundae)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 09:30:17 -0800
Subject: Sending null byte to serial port in Windows using PySerial?
Message-ID: <49f4e27a.0211010930.56788863@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I'm having troubles sending the null byte (0x00) to the serial port in
Windows using PySerial on ActivePython 2.2.1 build 222.  Currently I'm
doing something like this:

com = serial.Serial("COM1", 9600, timeout=1)
 -- <some data transfer on the port> --
com.write(chr(0))

The device should reply a single byte upon receiving this byte, but I
never got anything in reply.

I looked at PySerial's code, which calls win32file.WriteFile() to
write to the serial port.  I also checked out USPP, which
unfortunately threw an exception when I called read().  I suppose it
wouldn't make a huge difference anyway, since USPP uses win32file for
the underlying communication as well.

Have I missed anything?  Should I use some other method to write the
null byte to the serial port?

Thank you very much for you help!


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov 26 11:22:08 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:22:08 -0600
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302F8A119@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: grante at visi.com [mailto:grante at visi.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:10 AM
> 
> In article <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list at python.org>, 
> sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> 
> > Anyway, to each it's own.  But I do concurr with those who
> > say that with the acquisition of list comprehensions, map(),
> > reduce(), filter(), lambda() et-al, should be on the road
> > to deprecation and eventual elimination, being the black
> > un-pythonic sheep of the family.
> 
> I see how you use list comprehensions to replace map and
> filter, but I don't understand why list comprehensions are
> touted as a replacement for reduce and lambda.  I use lamba
> almost exclusively to generate anonymous functions that are
> passed to GUI widgets.  How does a list comprehension solve
> that problem?
> 
> In the case of reduce:
> 
>   sum = reduce(operator.add, valueList)
> 
> How is that expressed any better with a list comprension?
>

Indeed it's a difficult question; let's ponder it for a sec...
(or ten).

:-)

-gustavo



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 14 15:39:28 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:39:28 GMT
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4STA9.9987$744.345722@news1.tin.it>

M wrote:
   ...
> But I see a disturbing trend.

"trend"?

> The new enumerate or zip function. If you look at the code using this

"new"?  _zip_...?  It was introduced in Python 2.0...

> function it is not at all obvious what the code does. Let say a programmer

Are you claiming the pre-2.0 code (without zip) doing the rough equivalent 
of today's e.g. 
    x = zip(onething, another) 
namely
    x = map(None, onething, another)
WAS more obvious...?!  I don't see how you can claim a TREND unless you
ARE claiming that "map(None, ..." was indeed "obvious" in a way that
zip isn't.  And that is so totally and utterly absurd a claim that I
wouldn't know what to make of it.

Python has a few dozen built-in functions.  I wouldn't _expect_ MOST of
them to be "immediately obvious" to somebody who has not even bothered
glancing at the docs, or trying e.g help(zip) at the prompt in an
interactive session.  And I don't see any "trend" in that, since e.g.
the time of Python 1.5.2, which is where I came in.


> I hope this is not a start of adding powerfull and hard to understand
> features to Python.

I dispute that "not immediately obvious unless one bothers to read
the docs or try calling help" is equivalent to "hard to understand".
In any case, you cannot possibly be seeing "the start" of adding a
few powerful built-in functions to Python, since most of them were
already in 1.5.2 -- thus, "the start" must have been much older.


Alex



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sun Nov 24 18:15:36 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:15:36 -0800
Subject: using del() to 'unimport'
References: <918bc22f.0211240425.68b8c282@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oimrra.qvc.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Donnal Walter fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 24 November 2002 
04:25 am:

> When the the following module is imported, I want only 'MyClass' (NOT
> 'Useful' and 'Mixin1') to be publicly accessible.
> 
> ======= mymodule.py ==================
> from utilities import Useful, Mixin1
> 
> class MyClass(Useful, Mixin1): pass
> ======================================
>
        Don't use "from...import..." <G>

        What happens if you use:

import utilities

class MyClass(utilities.Useful, utilities.Mixin1): pass

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From des.small at bristol.ac.uk  Wed Nov 20 11:39:53 2002
From: des.small at bristol.ac.uk (Des Small)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:39:53 GMT
Subject: Teaching numerics with Python
References: <arg9lu$85u$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <m6el9g6qil.fsf@pc156.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Antti Rasila <arasila at pcu.helsinki.fi.invalid> writes:


> 1) ..someone has experience on this kind of usage of Python numerical
> mathematics? We would be happy to hear from your experiences.

I work as a Scientific Programmer in a University maths department,
and Python is my main language.  The advantages for me are essentially
those you note:

* short development times 
* interactive code development (I can't work without this, anymore)
* it's not FORTRAN
* convenient bindings to Tk for guis, VTK for 3D visualisation stuff
(typically both get used together).
* it's not C++
* Numeric extensions have much of the power attributed to MATLAB
for array-bashing 
* it's a Real Language 
* you can recode bottlenecks in C if the mood takes you (it usually
doesn't in my case, but that's because I care more about my time than
the computer's)

Plus you can get people from a FORTRAN background to try it (if this
wasn't a constraint I might have gone with Lisp) although I'd prefer
not to look at any more of the resulting code.

> 2) ..if some course material and ready program files are available,
> which we could use as building blocks of our course?

We don't have any.  I don't teach, but the computing curriculum here
is being reconsidered, and it may be that Python figures in
undergraduate life in the future, so I'd be interested in this too.

How you teach this stuff probably depends on whether you can assume
prior knowledge of programming in general.

> 3) ..you have seen a book such as Scientific Computing with Python

No, but if someone writes one, I'll buy it.

> Links:
> 
> Spring 2002 course homepage:
> http://www.math.helsinki.fi/~arasila/nrc02/

Des
-- 
Des Small, Scientific Programmer,
School of Mathematics, University of Bristol, UK.


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov  6 12:21:46 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 17:21:46 GMT
Subject: Guilty secret: globals baffle me
References: <3U9y9.19300$ko1.2872530@kent.svc.tds.net> <82ay9.98000$TD1.4405986@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aqbj3a$r89$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:53:56 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

>Edward K. Ream wrote:
>   ...
>> 1. How many globals are there?  Is there just one, or does each module
>> define its own?
>
>The latter.  Each module has its own globals-dictionary.
>
>
>> 2. It seems that:
>> 
>> global foo
>> foo = x
>> ...
>> global
>> print foo
>> 
>> only works if the two parts are within the same module, so I think maybe
>> globals() returns module specific stuff, but then why call it globals?
>
>It seems that you haven't noticed the existence of functions (and
>their namespaces, particularly their crucial local namespace).
>
>The global statement only makes sense inside a function: it tells the
>Python compiler that certain names, that the function binds, rebinds
>or unbinds, are NOT (as is the normal case) local to the function, but
>rather refer to names in the module's globals-dictionary.
>
>Outside of any function, all names refer to the module's globals-
>dictionary, therefore the global statement is redundant -- useless,
>although technically innocuous.
>
>Given that names that only exist within a function are commonly
>called "local names" or "local variables" of that function, how
>else would you call names that AREN'T local, but rather global
>to all functions within the module?  Calling them "module names"
>would IMHO be far more confusing than calling them "global
>names" -- I think of module names as the names of modules; and
>the local/global distinction would become quite confused.
>
I agree. But BTW, don't forget in-between variables such as x in

 >>> def foo():
 ...     x=1
 ...     def bar():
 ...         print x
 ...     bar()
 ...     x=2
 ...     bar()
 ...
 >>> foo()
 1
 2

which isn't local to bar but isn't global either.

I have an uncomfortable feeling there is unfinished
business in the way names in nested scopes and otherwise
related namespaces work. The global/local dichotomy doesn't
fully express the possibilities any more. IMO it would be nice
to have full access to accessible namespaces without magically
determined access mode restrictions based on full-function lookahead.

I.e., we have a de facto hierarchy of name spaces defined by the
ability to nest functions. Why not have an access mechanism that
allows rebinding as desired? E.g., you could let locals take a depth argument,
so locals() is equivalent to locals(0), and locals(1) is the enclosing
name space, so locals(1)['x'] = 3 in bar above would rebind the x local to foo.

For notational convenience, you could make locals an object with a __getitem__ that
would return the name space as an object with attributes, so you could write
locals[1].x = 3 instead. Globals would be at the end of the list at locals[-1].

In conjuction with this,  I wonder if the PostScript way
of pushing and popping dictionaries onto/from a stack of
dictionaries has something that could be used by python.
Temporarily getting unqualified-name access to a chosen
namespace shadowing others by being on top seems like
a useful thing. Sort of like entering the local namespace
of a function without leaving the calling code context.

Thus pushing a dictionary would make it temporarily local[0]
and the previous local[0] would be local[1], so you could
still get at it explicitly if a name was shadowed and/or you
wanted to rebind there.

Lots of things would become possible. You could push a reference
to another module's global space temporarily, for unqualified name
access, or you could do it with kwargs, meaning just a reference push
instead of the update trick, and many other possibilities.

push_dir(local(1)) would give you transparent access to the enclosing
scope for read/rebind as if it were your own local space.

push_dir(vars(obj)) would let you write x = 1 and have the effect of obj.x = 1.
pop_dir() would revert to the previous unqualified name space.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Thu Nov  7 21:04:03 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 13:04:03 +1100
Subject: csv module 1.0pre1 released
Message-ID: <m3vg38rf58.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

WHAT IS IT:

The CSV module provides a fast CSV parser which can split and join CSV
records which have been produced by Microsoft products such as Access
and Excel.

NOTES:

The most important change for this release is that the basic quote
handling has been modified to exactly match the observed behaviour of
Excel.  A comprehensive test suite has been added to test this
observed behaviour.  If the module does not conform to Excel behaviour
we consider this to be a bug.

The pre designation on the release is due to the slight change in
quote handling.

CHANGES SINCE 0.5:

* Moved to standard BSD template license.

* Now using distutils to create source distribution.

* Parser's handling of unusual quoting styles was found to be at odds
  with Excel. In particular, Excel only treats the quote character as
  special if it appears as the first character in a field, whereas our
  parser honoured them anywhere. We now produce the same result as Excel -
  quotes within a field appear in the output.

* Introduced Parser.quote_char attribute to replace the hard coded "
  (double quote).  You can now disable quoting by setting quote_char
  to 0 or None.

* Introduced Parser.escape_char attribute which is used to escape
  special characters when quote_char is specified is disabled.

* Introduced Parser.strict attribute which controls whether the parser
  will raise an exception on malformed fields rather than attempting
  to guess the right behaviour.

* Introduced a suite of unit tests.

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au




From neal at metaslash.com  Sat Nov  9 10:11:52 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 10:11:52 -0500
Subject: Dynamic loading of modules in AIX
References: <pan.2002.11.08.03.04.11.277195.12688@metaslash.com> <PBIy9.16147$6b.609463@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.09.15.11.51.389948.12688@metaslash.com>

On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 01:13:03 -0500, Stuart D. Gathman wrote:

> On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 22:04:23 -0500, Neal Norwitz wrote:
> 
>> I'm trying to get python to load dynamic modules. But after loading the
>> module, when code inside the module calls back into the main program,
>> it seg faults.  More details below.
> 
> You need to use ld_so_aix, which imports the symbols for the main
> program into the loadable modules.  Otherwise, those symbols are
> unresolved giving a coredump when called.

Stuart, thanks for your reply.  Actually, it is using ld_so_aix.  
I cut it out for brevity.  Sorry for the confusion.

I am using the standard make process. ./configure && make

> You can find my RPM spec file for python-2.2 at
> http://www.bmsi.com/aix/python-2.2.spec
> 
> (along with binary RPMs and a tar of rpm itself.  RPM needs LANG=C on
> some AIX versions.)
> 
> Even if you don't use RPM on AIX, the spec file will tell you how to
> build python.  Look at the %build section.
 
I looked at your spec file.  I tried setting LANG=C.  It didn't help.
I tried using xlc and -brtl -bdynamic.  That also didn't help.
I noticed that gcc was compiled with --disabled-shared.  I don't know
if that's a problem.  I suspect not, since xlc also fails.

The python.exp file appears to be created correctly.  The API which
causes the core dump is in python.exp file.  This file is imported
when trying to make the .so.

I'm not sure how the machines are configured.  So it's possible there's
a configuration problem.  I checked my limits (ulimit) and those seemed
fine.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Neal


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Nov 16 15:25:54 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 14:25:54 -0600
Subject: Python instead of php
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.11.16.12.25.12.658252@gmx.net>
References: <pan.2002.11.16.12.25.12.658252@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <1037478354.3335.44.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

Look to: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming

There are several frameworks, some of which are very similar to PHP and
some of which are not.  PSP (in Webware) and Spyce are probably the most
like PHP -- there's quite a few small Python-embedded-in-HTML programs
out there as well.  Other frameworks have different ways of mixing HTML
and code.

On Sat, 2002-11-16 at 06:25, Marten Bauer wrote:
> Hello to ya all,
> 
> i use python for programming a database (postgresql) project. 
> The Systeminterfaces are written in python and the Userinterface 
> (web based) is written in html/php.
> 
> Is it possible to use python like php as script language to writte
> the Userinterfaces also in html and python?
> 
> Is modpython for apache or Twisted from Tweak Labroratory a possible
> way?
> 
> 
> Thanks for helping
> Marten
-- 
Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com>



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 13 16:18:30 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 22:18:30 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C5C92001CEEdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <m3u1ilqic9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> > However, it is not clear to what the value would be of completing the
> > circle, given that the XML is of no use.
> 
> Martin, your prejudice is showing; very badly :-)

That might be the case. However, as a question, I meant it seriously:
What do I gain from converting the Python documentation to XML?

I'm convinced that there would be immediate gain; this is not a
prejudice but a fact.

Longer-term, I have been considering that using XML might help
translating the Python documentation to French and German, but I'm
certain that nobody else has that usage in mind. So I'm wondering what
other people expect from this, apart from buzzword compliance.

Regards,
Martin



From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Mon Nov  4 21:18:39 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 03:18:39 +0100
Subject: python2.2 and wxPythonGTK problem
In-Reply-To: <88bc63c6.0211041724.17cff049@posting.google.com>
References: <88bc63c6.0211041724.17cff049@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021105021839.GA1283@lilith.ghaering.test>

* Doug Farrell <writeson at earthlink.net> [2002-11-04 17:24 -0800]:
> [splitter problems after switch versions]

You'll have much better chances of receiving a useful answer by posting
this question to the wxPython-users mailing list.

-- Gerhard



From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Sat Nov  9 10:34:28 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:34:28 +0100
Subject: Determining Presence Of GUI Support
In-Reply-To: <42aiqa.jp82.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
References: <42aiqa.jp82.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <20021109153428.GA13991@lilith.ghaering.test>

* Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> [2002-11-09 06:40 +0000]:
> Is there a portable method of determining whether the current runtime
> environment supports a GUI or text-based interface?  I would like to
> write a single program which autosenses the presentation environment
> and works accordingly.

You can obtain wether or not you're running under X11 by checking for
the existence of the "DISPLAY" environment variable:

>>> import os
>>> "DISPLAY" in os.environ
1

-- Gerhard



From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Fri Nov 22 17:19:58 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 22:19:58 GMT
Subject: PSU Space Time Continuum Warning
Message-ID: <armaie$eau$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

SECRET SECRET SECRET FOR PSU MEMBERS ONLY SECRET SECRET

This Python Secret Underground Space Time Continuum Warning is SECRET.
Do not distribute on punishment of removal from the space time continuum
in ALL timelines.

Some of you may have been wondering why the Python Journal claims Guido
van Rossum developed Python in Italy:

http://pythonjournal.cognizor.com/template/PyJdescr.html

"""
Python is a forefront language for web communication and general computing.
Download it for free from python.org, with lots of goodies. You can see how 
programs work in python because it's legible and clear: It was originated as a
first programming language by Guido van Rossum in Italy, now in US.
"""

You may even feel inclined to point out that no, Guido is Dutch, and he
developed it in the Netherlands, not Italy. This is a MISTAKE. Your 
memories will adjust shortly. Guido van Rossum is of course from Italy.
This has always been the case. Your memories are just a temporal 
remnant caused by inductive failure in the crosstime bands.

Python was developed in Italy with the sage help and advice of Alex
Martelli, aka the Martellibot. The Martellibot is an acausal construct
caused by an feedback loop in timeline 14A, as is well known.

This doctoring of the timeline is necessary to prevent the cataclysm of
2514. This cataclysm, an intense irregular expression confluxion in the 
Earth's Tentative Core, would otherwise have prevented the foundation of
the first Dawn Federation.

It is expected that further doctoring of the timeline is necessary. If
the Python Journal claims next that Guido is really from Japan and that
there was an early schism with Ruby (about indentation, of course) from
an ur-language that he and Matz were designing, then do not be surprised.



From Oschler at earthlink.net  Sat Nov  2 14:36:27 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 19:36:27 GMT
Subject: Jython 2.1 requires JDK 1.2?
Message-ID: <%OVw9.41490$Lg2.11093045@news2.news.adelphia.net>

I thought Jython 2.1 could run with JDK 1.1 or above.  However, when I try
to compile a Jython project, it's looking for the ReferenceQueue class which
is from JDK 1.2 .  I thought I saw a 'release note' item mentioning the
removal of JDK 1.2 dependencies.  I checked the JVM compatibility link:

http://www.jython.org/platform.html

But it mostly talks about JVM versions and not JDK versions.

thx





From jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com  Tue Nov  5 15:53:06 2002
From: jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com (Jim)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:53:06 GMT
Subject: pyqt table
References: <3dc7f35b$0$11674@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <3DC82F93.9090603@SPAMnwinternet.com>

Rob Hall wrote:
> I have created a qt table fine.  I want to be able to colour the background
> of individual cells but I cant find a setBackground method fot QTableItem.

> How do I colour the background of a cell?

I haven't done this in quite a while, but it
looks like you need to subclass QTableItem and
overload the paint method:

class CustomTableItem (QTableItem):
     def __init__ (self, table, et, text):
         QTableItem.__init__ (self, table, et, text)

     def paint (self, p, cg, cr, selected):
         if <some condition, like self.row () ==
            or something based on cell value>

             new_cg = <new QColorGroup defined by
                       your program somehow>
         else:
	    new_cg = cg

         QTableItem.paint (self, p, new_cg, cr, selected)

Each QTableItem holds row/col properties, so you
can use those to determine the row being painted.
(see QTableItem.row (), for example)

See the Qt docs for QTableItem::paint and QColorGroup.
There's also some example C++ code linked at
QTableItem.paint in the Qt docs.


Jim



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Thu Nov 14 14:24:12 2002
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 06:24:12 +1100
Subject: decision tree by python
References: <mailman.1036616888.14196.python-list@python.org> <_xTA9.30934$QZ.6707@sccrnsc02>
Message-ID: <3DD3F85C.8E691E0B@optushome.com.au>

Laurence Gonsalves wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:06:14 -0500,
> Chermside, Michael <mchermside at ingdirect.com> wrote:
> > > i am trying to construct a decision and classifiy a set
> > > of data using GINI index.
> > > Is there any references?
> >
> >  I'm really not quite sure what you're asking for. The phrase
> >  "construct a decision" suggests that you're trying to build
> >  some object... but I'm not sure what a "decision object" would
> >  be. Alternatively, you may simply not be a native English
> >  speaker and you simply meant you wanted to "make a decision".
> >  That's fine, but without SOME SORT of description of WHAT
> >  decision, it's hard to find a resource.
> 
> Or maybe they made typo. :-)
> 
> The subject says "decision tree", so I'm guessing they want to construct
> a decision tree for classifying data using the GINI index.
> 
> The ID3 decision tree learning algorithm is described on this page:
> 
>   http://www.cs.tufts.edu/g/150ML/slides/id3.html
> 
> Converting it to Python isn't too difficult.

Orange might be worth a look (see http://magix.fri.uni-lj.si/orange/ ) -
it implements some elementary classifiers as well as a wrapper for C4.5,
which is a further development of ID3 (and also freely available, unlike
the proprietary C5.0 algorithm).

Peter Christen at ANU has also written a very nice Pythonic C-level
interface to the C4.5 code, but I'm not sure whether he has released it
- see http://cap.anu.edu.au/cap/projects/KDDMemPerf/ for more details.

Tim C



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sun Nov 24 11:11:43 2002
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:11:43 -0500
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: </oP49ks/KPIR089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <arqm0r$s6f$1 at maud.ifi.uio.no>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_N=E6ss?= <andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no> wrote:
>When I started learning Python one of the things that surprised me was that
>you couldn't do assignments inside the if clause, e.g.:
>
>if myvar = someFunction():
>
>My question is, what is the rationale for this? Is it a technical issue? Or
>purely a matter of language design? I'm curious because I'm interested in
>the design og programming languages, not because I want this behavior
>changed in Pyton :)

   We've just been there. groups.google.com can bring it all
back, although I don't offhand remember the subject.

   Basically, assignments aren't possible within
expressions.

   One good reason for this is list packing/unpacking in
assignments:

        a, b = 5, 8

   As it stands, this is an assignment which effectively makes
two 2-tuples equivalent, associating `a` with the value 5,
and `b` with the value 8.

   If `b=5` were an allowable expression, then the statement
above would change into a 3-tuple, and a useful piece of
semantics would be a tad more awkward.

   (Reading that thread, I was surprised to find that I'd
uncritically been associating `()` with tuples the way `[]`
are actually associated with lists.  'Tain't so.)

   You could think of making an exception for `if`
statements, but beyond an uncertain point, exceptions are
bad for a language; Gerald M.Weinberg's _The Psychology of
Computer Programming_ contains a discussion.  I don't know
where that point is, at most I might claim to know cases
where languages haven't passed it and cases where they have.

        Regards.        Mel.


From irmen at NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Nov 28 14:44:42 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:44:42 +0100
Subject: LAN communication under windows
In-Reply-To: <3de60530.10377734@news.easynews.net>
References: <3de60530.10377734@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <3de67227$0$11752$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

If you have no idea where to start, I strongly suggest you skip the socket 
programming altogether, and have a look at PYRO.

http://pyro.sourceforge.net

Pyro provides remotely callable objects without having to program a single 
line of networking code.

Irmen



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Mon Nov  4 04:06:46 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:06:46 +0100
Subject: Field in SGML file
References: <d02408fc.0210291203.5a2af485@posting.google.com> <apo6a7$omp$1@news-reader10.wanadoo.fr> <apv159$53md2$1@ID-163087.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <aq5cq3$o5u$1@news-reader10.wanadoo.fr>

Peter Flynn wrote:
[snip]
> I don't know how you call external binaries from within Python, but you
> need to issue the command string
> 
> nsgmls -cCATALOG [sgml-dec] filename

>From within Python:

nsgmlsOutput = os.popen("nsgmls -cCATALOG [sgml-dec] filename")

will do the trick. Use nsgmlsOutput just like a file opened for reading.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From fgeiger at datec.at  Thu Nov 21 13:24:40 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:24:40 +0100
Subject: [wxPython] I'd like to catch mouse click events within a text control
Message-ID: <3ddd24d9@news.swissonline.ch>

I'd like to catch mouse click events within a text control and then read the
mouse pointer position. Alas, the only events I found in the dox are,
EVT_TEXT, EVT_TEXT_ENTER, EVT_TEXT_URL, EVT_TEXT_MAXLEN.

Is this possible at all? Do I have to catch the click event from an other
control, which receives the click event? Which one could it be?

Many thanks in advance and kind regards
Franz GEIGER

P.S.: Platform is AP 2.1.3, wxPython 2.3.2.1.




From theller at python.net  Fri Nov 15 07:14:19 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 13:14:19 +0100
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org> <yu99u1ijeehm.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <7h3d6p7xelx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <adkbqbc4.fsf@python.net>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> C without it's library would get a rating of "useless"... guess this
> is true for most languages, but C more than most.
> 
Not at all, imo. You just have to write the library yourself,
and you *can* do it in C.

Thomas


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 10 08:36:51 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 13:36:51 GMT
Subject: RE - non-greedy - some greediness - complete greediness
References: <mailman.1036918692.17309.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqlndj$oqu$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:57:28 +0100 (MET), Doru-Catalin Togea <doru-cat at ifi.uio.no> wrote:

>Hi!
>
>I am working on a little project where i need REs with a self-defined
>level of greediness.
>
>I am processing text in a Latex like manner, for those of you who are
>familiar with it.
>
>I want to be able to recognize Latex-like commands within my text. A
>command starts with a character, say '\' followed by the command's name
>and followed by the text on which the command applies enclosed in curly
>brackets. Examples:
>
>	\footnote{some text}
>	\cite{some referance}
>	\section{some title}
>
>Recognizing such patterns and retriving the name of the command and the
>text on which the command applies is not so difficult to achieve. Things
>get complicated though when one encounters nested commands.
>
This comes up with some regularity ;-)

>Say I have the following string:
>
> "abcd \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl} mnop \footnote{hello there}"
>                                  ^     ^                           ^
> closing bracket of nested \cite  |     |                           |
>    closing bracket of first \footnote  |                           |
>                               closing bracket of second \footnote  |
>
>By using non-greedy REs, I would get recognized the following footnotes:
>	1) \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1}
>	2) \footnote{hello there}
>
>The first matching is wrong because the first '}' encountered belongs to
>the nested \cite command. The second matching is correct.
>
>By using greedy REs, I would get recognized the following pattern:
>	1) \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl} mnop \footnote{hello there}
>
>This is wrong because a) there are two \footnote commands in my string, so
>I should get two matchings, and b) the first \footnote command should be
>applied only to the "efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl" substring.
>
>In other words I need to be able to specify the level of greediness my REs
>should have. Is it possible? If yes, how?
>
>I have an idea of how to solve my problem without REs, by counting the
>opening and closing curly brackets and reasoning algorithmically about
>where within my text each nested command begins and ends. The question is
>can the above stated problem be solved elegantly by means of REs?
>
Since re's can't count without external help, and tricking it into using
external help is not very efficient, it is probably best either to do it
all without re or just use re to split the input into pieces that are easier
for your subsequent processing to identify and deal with. E.g. (I added 
escaped backslash and curly brackets without knowing if/how that's actually done
in Latex, and also assumed commands are lower case [a-z]+ Adjust to suit):

 >>> import re
 >>> s = r"abcd \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl} mnop \\not-cmd \{no curl\} \footnote{hello there}"
 >>> rx = re.compile(r'(\\[\\{}]|\\[a-z]+|[{}])')
 >>> ss = rx.split(s)
 >>> ss
 ['abcd ', '\\footnote', '', '{', 'efgh ', '\\cite', '', '{', 'myRef1', '}', ' ijkl', '}', ' mnop ',
  '\\\\', 'not-cmd ', '\\{', 'no curl', '\\}', ' ', '\\footnote', '', '{', 'hello there', '}', '']
 >>> for x in ss: print `x`
 ...
 'abcd '
 '\\footnote'
 ''
 '{'
 'efgh '
 '\\cite'
 ''
 '{'
 'myRef1'
 '}'
 ' ijkl'
 '}'
 ' mnop '
 '\\\\'
 'not-cmd '
 '\\{'
 'no curl'
 '\\}'
 ' '
 '\\footnote'
 ''
 '{'
 'hello there'
 '}'
 ''

Thus each element in the list will be r'\\' or r'\{' or r'\}' or r'\command' or '{' or '}' or plain text,
which are easy to tell apart. You could then process the list recursively or in a loop. BTW, you
can get rid of the null strings with filter, e.g.,
   ss = filter(None, rx.split(s))
if you don't want to use the fact that they serve to put matches with the split expression at
the odd indices in the list and plain text (which will be null if matches are adjacent) at the
even indices. I.e., note:

 >>> [ss[i] for i in range(1,len(ss),2)]
 ['\\footnote', '{', '\\cite', '{', '}', '}', '\\\\', '\\{', '\\}', '\\footnote', '{', '}']

and

 >>> [ss[i] for i in range(0,len(ss),2)]
 ['abcd ', '', 'efgh ', '', 'myRef1', ' ijkl', ' mnop ', 'not-cmd ', 'no curl', ' ', '', 'hello there', '']


My question would be how outer functions are applied to the results of inner ones. Are some inner
results marked for passing through the outer and others marked for modification, and then all finally
put together?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From mwh at python.net  Fri Nov 29 07:11:46 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:11:46 GMT
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list@python.org> <3DE59E73.4040908@something.invalid> <as5ugi$a48$0@216.39.172.122> <TcqdnSvLJ5ZGXXugXTWcow@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <7h3smxko9ry.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

> "Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
> news:as5ugi$a48$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> >  >>> def foo(x): print x
> >  ...
> >  >>> bar = foo.__get__('Hi via foo')
> >  >>> bar()
> >  Hi via foo
> 
> This is a new one for me:
> 
> >>> def f(): pass
> ...
> >>> f.__get__
> <method-wrapper object at 0x015197B0>
> >>> f.__get__.__doc__
> 'descr.__get__(obj[, type]) -> value'
> 
> Seems to be a new, undocumented (?, not in indexes) method producing a
> new, undocumented (?) internal type.  Not something to bank a product
> on ;-)

Curiouser and curiouser:

>>> def f(arg):
...  print arg
... 
>>> f.__get__("e")  
<bound method ?.f of 'e'>
>>> f.__get__("e")()
e
>>> def g(a,b):
...  print a, b
... 
>>> g.__get__("f")("e")
f e
>>> g.__get__("f","e")     
<bound method ?.g of 'f'>
>>> g.__get__("f","e")()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: g() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)
>>> g.__get__("f","e")("d")
f d

Boggle :)

Actually, I think I have some faint idea what is going on here: When
you go

    instance.attr

the translates, roughly, so long as 'attr' isn't a key in the
instance's __dict__, into

    instance.__class__.__dict__['attr'].__get__(instance)

so if 

    instance.__class__.__dict__['attr']

is a regular function, the behaviour above is what produces the bound
method.

Hmm, actually, the translation might be:

  instance.__class__.__dict__['attr'].__get__(instance, instance.__class__)

That whirring sound you can hear is my brain on its spin cycle :)

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  The "of course, while I have no problem with this at all, it's
  surely too much for a lesser being" flavor of argument always
  rings hollow to me.                       -- Tim Peters, 29 Apr 1998


From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Fri Nov 15 21:53:09 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 02:53:09 GMT
Subject: list.reverse()
References: <ar49h9$si9$1@ins22.netins.net>
Message-ID: <i9bbtu8vihgpbc5jq73hk1vvtq1gcl9ggb@4ax.com>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:16:30 -0600, Mike Dean <klaatu at evertek.net>
wrote:
>I think I recall seeing a reasonable explanation for this earlier 
>(probably referring actually to list.sort()), but I'm wondering - what 
>was the rationale for making list.reverse() reverse a list in-place 
>rather than return a new, reversed list?  I'm sure there's a good 
>reason, but what might that be?

list.reverse() is implemented as a very efficient, very tight C loop,
because it is just swapping a bunch of pointers to internal Python
objects.  It requires much less time than having to make a copy,
especially since a Python object can have unlimited size and unlimited
levels of nesting of objects inside of objects.

Manuel


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov 16 09:52:42 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:52:42 -0600
Subject: quick question
In-Reply-To: <20021116051220.01520.00000047@mb-bk.aol.com> (bwfc10@aol.com's
 message of "16 Nov 2002 10:12:20 GMT")
References: <20021116051220.01520.00000047@mb-bk.aol.com>
Message-ID: <m2k7jd4ldx.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Bwfc10" == Bwfc10  <bwfc10 at aol.com> writes:

    Bwfc10> If you were writing a program aking about peoples
    Bwfc10> favourite flavour of ice cream and you input the number of
    Bwfc10> votes for 5 flavours, how do you get your program to
    Bwfc10> display the most popular (the one with the most votes).
    Bwfc10> This may be easy to most of you but i am new to python.

This isn't homework, is it :-)? 

Python has a number of data structures to make your life easier.
Let's start with the end result, and then I'll show you how to get
there.  Suppose you had a list of tuples, each tuple was a pair of
vote tallies and icecreams

votes = [ (12, 'vanilla'),
          (53, 'chocolate'),
          (1003, 'rocky road'),
          (1, 'rasberry sorbet'),
          ]

python lists have an in place sort method, which for lists of tuples
will sort on the first element of the tuple, which is what we want
since vote counts are the first element of each tuple,  If you want to
display the winners first,  you can reverse the list

votes.sort()
votes.reverse()  # winners first!

for (count, flavor) in votes:
    print '%s got %d votes' % (flavor, count)

Now, all that remains to be done is generate the list in the first
place.  This depends on how you collect your data, but a good
structure to use is a dictionary that maps flavors to counts.  Suppose
you had a long text file, where every row was the favorite flavor of
somebody, eg

chocolate
vanilla
chocolate
rocky road
vanilla
rasberry sorbet

... and so on...

You can loop over that file and create a dictionary mapping flavors to
counts like so:

favorites = {}  
for flavor in file('votes.dat'):
    flavor = flavor.strip()  # remove leading or trailing white space
    favorites[flavor] = favorites.get(flavor,0) + 1


This last line is a common idiom for dictionaries.  get returns the
value of flavor if it exists, otherwise it returns the default value
of 0.

favorites looks like

{'rocky road': 1, 'rasberry sorbet': 1, 'vanilla': 2, 'chocolate': 2}

Now were almost done.  We just need to get that dictionary into the
list of tuples used above.

votes = [(count, flavor) for (flavor, count) in m.items()]


Here then, is the complete program:

favorites = {}  
for flavor in file('votes.dat'):
    flavor = flavor.strip()  # remove leading or trailing white space
    favorites[flavor] = favorites.get(flavor,0) + 1

votes = [(count, flavor) for (flavor, count) in favorites.items()]
votes.sort()
votes.reverse()  # winners first!

for (count, flavor) in votes:
    print '%s got %d votes' % (flavor, count)

There is a chapter on sorting in The Python Cookbook that you should
read if you get your hands on it.

John Hunter



From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov  7 06:06:14 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:06:14 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com> <mailman.1036601108.23735.python-list@python.org> <sA6q3WAW5Uy9Ew4K@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <20021106184401.X30315@prim.han.de> <biDHvIAwJWy9Ewd8@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <mailman.1036610725.12881.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3u1itzlot.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:

> > I think that python allows any reference to change type dynamically.
> 
> There are some restrictions especially with new-style classes. 

But *references* can still change type!

I don't know whether SSA or something would help compiling Python.
Maybe.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  My hat is lined with tinfoil for protection in the unlikely event
  that the droid gets his PowerPoint presentation working.
                               -- Alan W. Frame, alt.sysadmin.recovery


From klaatu at evertek.net  Tue Nov 19 21:08:00 2002
From: klaatu at evertek.net (Mike Dean)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:08:00 -0600
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <2259b0e2.0211190937.217dc25d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net>

On Tuesday 19 November 2002 11:37 am, Michele Simionato <mis6 at pitt.edu> 
wrote in comp.lang.python:
> 
> A simple trick to simulate static variables by passing an optional
> mutable object is the following:
> 
> def f(x,i=[0]): # i[0] is the "static" variable
>     i[0]+=1
>     return x+i[0]
> 
> print f(0),f(0),f(0) #--> 1,2,3

I've seen this trick a time or two before and always wondered - why does 
it work?  Why does Python remember the changed list as the function's 
default value, rather than reverting back to the list that was 
specified when the function was defined?  At first glance it seems a 
bit non-intuitive.

Thanks,
Michael


From jason at tishler.net  Wed Nov 27 07:43:59 2002
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:43:59 -0500
Subject: Python - Boost - Cygwin linker error
In-Reply-To: <uwumzanaq.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
References: <bca37bb1.0211231942.24f4c2f5@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1038236554.11075.python-list@python.org>
 <uwumzanaq.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <20021127124358.GB2100@tishler.net>

Dave,

On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 07:06:37PM -0500, David Abrahams wrote:
> Jason Tishler <jason at tishler.net> writes:
> > On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 07:42:28PM -0800, St?phane Vaxelaire wrote:
> >> I get an error at link time that appears to occur between Boost code
> >> and python lib. Here is the output :
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > [snip]
> >
> > Note that this occurs automatically for Distutils built shared
> > extensions.  If Boost.Python is built using a different mechanism,
> > then -DUSE_DL_IMPORT will have to be specified manually.
> 
> Naw, Boost.Python's own build mechanism (Boost.Build) also adds
> -DUSE_DL_IMPORT automatically for Cygwin.

Thanks for the clarification -- I was hoping that you would chime in.

> This only happened because St?phane decided to build things
> ``manually'' in the first place ;-)

Ah.  I knew that I was going to get myself into "trouble" with the loose
wording above -- sorry, for the misinformation.

Jason

-- 
PGP/GPG Key: http://www.tishler.net/jason/pubkey.asc or key servers
Fingerprint: 7A73 1405 7F2B E669 C19D  8784 1AFD E4CC ECF4 8EF6




From berkowit at silcom.com  Fri Nov 29 15:46:09 2002
From: berkowit at silcom.com (Paul Berkowitz)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:46:09 -0800
Subject: Can't find user module despite setting PYTHONPATH
References: <BA0D042F.27479%berkowit@silcom.com> <BA0D0E7D.2749B%berkowit@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <BA0D1211.274A2%berkowit@silcom.com>

On 11/29/02 12:30 PM, in article BA0D0E7D.2749B%berkowit at silcom.com, "Paul
Berkowitz" <berkowit at silcom.com> wrote:

> OK. I discovered I'm not supposed to include the .py extension. So I removed
> it. It still doesn't work:
> 
>>>> import module1
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ImportError: No module named module1
> 
> 
> But it's there, in my ~/Library/Scripts/Python/  directory. There must be
> something wrong with my PYTHONPATH?
> 
> setenv PYTHONPATH
> .:/usr/lib/python2.2/:/Users/berkowit/Library/Scripts/Python/:/usr/lib/pytho
> n2.2/plat-darwin/ # all one line
> 
> What?

Yes. If I cd to '/Users/berkowit/Library/Scripts/', then I can import the
module without problem. But otherwise PYTHONPATH  doesn't seem to find that
directory. Does anyone know why not? (Mac OS 10.2.2, using tcsh in Terminal
to set PYTHONPATH).

-- 
Paul Berkowitz



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Nov 27 13:41:40 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 13:41:40 -0500
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no> <artvr3$cbe$2@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <as33l4$1pd$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <artvr3$cbe$2 at wheel2.two14.net>,  <maney at pobox.com> wrote:
>David Brown <david at no.westcontrol.spam.com> wrote:
>>
>> correctness.  This particular "feature" is a huge source of bugs and
>> frustration in C programming - mixing up "=" and "==" in conditions is
>> probably the biggest single cause of C program bugs.  Python, on the other
>
>Are you speaking from experience, or is this as well-founded as the
>hysterical wails about how Python's use of indentation is just wrong? 
>It certainly isn't remotely near my own experience (which covers a bit
>more than two decades, during much of which C was used more than
>anything else).

Well, I regularly get syntax errors from the Python compiler because I
typed "=" instead of "==".  Maybe I should proof my own code more
thoroughly...
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov 20 18:19:16 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:19:16 -0800
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org> <3DDB3373.2578CEC0@alcyone.com> <BaGcnQynO5m2VEagXTWc3Q@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3DDC1874.F72E2B35@alcyone.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> If I understand this, you are proposing that if a default is
> 'mutable', then extra magic be added to re-initialized (somehow) on
> every call.

I am doing no such thing.  I am simply stating that there is no a priori
reason why it _couldn't_ have been done that way.  It wasn't done that
way, and I am not suggesting it be changed, just justifying my position
that the way it's done right now is an arbitrary choice (simply because
it is the easiest to implement).

Whether the way it's currently done is a good idea is another question;
it seems from the constant confusion that this issue causes, it doesn't
seem so to me:  It causes confusion for newbies, and I can't think of
any circumstances in which you'd actually use that "feature" to your own
advantage that wouldn't be better expressed in clearer ways.

> > [For those about to mention the "But what if you really want x to be
> > None?" objection, one can simply use a private sentinel object.]
> 
> Ugh.  None *is* a (public, global) sentinel object.  Making it do some
> automagical special-case switcheroo behind the scenes in one
> particular context would complexify the language.  Making people do
> something more complex to get an obvious simple result strikes me as a
> wrong direction to go.

My parenthetical (well, bracketed) comment was simply to offset the
obvious complaint, "Well, what if I really did want to pass a None?"  If
you wanted to call f(None), you'd get the defaulting behavior, which
might not what be what you had wanted.  It would not have put the onus 
on the program to use the private sentinel object in any way.  (It was a
minor point anyway; and since None isn't mutable, it was really an
irrelevant comment anyway.)

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Most men do not mature, they simply grow taller.
\__/ Leo Rosten
    Alcyone Systems' CatCam / http://www.catcam.com/
 What do your pets do all day while you're at work?  Find out.


From herrn at gmx.net  Wed Nov 27 17:37:05 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 22:37:05 GMT
Subject: redirecting stdout
Message-ID: <as3heh$npuk0$1@ID-165840.news.dfncis.de>

Hi,

I am redirecting my output to a file via:
sys.stderr= open('out.txt','a', 0)

All exceptions are handled like this:

try:
  ...
except Exception, detail:
        print detail


That works. But I am missing the line numbers. How can I get to the line
numbers in exceptions? And is there a good documentation of exception
handling in python availabe? I just found very short ones.

Thanks in advance
Marco



-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From imbosol at vt.edu  Wed Nov 13 15:33:18 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:33:18 -0500
Subject: simple metaclass question
References: <3DD08DC1.A4CFE557@irl.cri.nz> <aqs27n$avm$5@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <6NrA9.4123$744.137981@news1.tin.it> <aqu7kb$ihb$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <7h3k7jhz3ti.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqud0f$q7h$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> writes:
> 
>> Thanks.  I was thinking at the C level, where objects that serve as
>> types have to have a certain fixed structure.  To create a metatype in
>> Python (not C), it would have to be an instance of a class that
>> subtypes type, right?
> 
> I don't know whether type(type(ob)) is always a subtype of type -- I
> think so -- but certainly the thing you write 
> 
> class Bob:
>    __metaclass__ = ...<---- here
> 
> doesn't have to be a subtype of type.

Of course not.  It might be useful and/or in bad style to do this:

    def makedict(name,bases,dict):
        return dict

    class whatever:
        __metaclass__ = makedict
        a = 1
        b = 2
        ...

just to create a large, built-in dictionary a little bit easier than
with the dict constructor.


> It can be handy to have a
> function here, for instance -- but if this function doesn't return a
> subtype of type, inheriting from the resulting class gets totally
> bewildering (or at least, I managed to totally bewilder myself along
> these lines).

Ok, I think a lot the difficulty is linguistic.  We're used to taking
shortcuts like saying "a is an integer," but when talking about
metaclasses, it leads to utter confusion.  We need to be explicit: "a
is an instance of integer."  (Even that is a shortcut for "a is bound
to an instance of integer," but it probably won't cause confusion for
this discussion.)

Now, obviously, the callable object given by __metaclass__ can return
any sort of object it wants, but only certain objects can serve as a
class in the normal way we think of them.  If I do this:

    class A(base):
        __metaclass__ = metafunction
        a = 1
        b = 2

    c = A(*args)

what's not clear to me is, what conditions does the object returned by
metafunction (which becomes bound to A) have to satisfy for c's type
to be A?

It seems to me that A would have to be either an instance of type, or
an instance of a subclass of type (and be callable, and return
instances of itself when called).

Now, let's assume, as is typical in metaclass programming, that
metafunction is, in fact, a class object.  Class objects, when called,
(are supposed to) return instances of themselves.  Therefore, if the
above statement is true, then the metaclass would have to be a subtype
of type,

In other words, metaclasses written in Python have to subclass type.
But, I don't think that's true of metaclasses written in C.  Since C
has control over the low-level structure of an object, C types can
create instances that have the same low-level structure as type
objects, without actually having to include "type" in it's bases.

But this opens up the possibility that a Python class could subclass
*that* object, and it needn't subclass type.  So I think the final
statement becomes: "Metaclasses written in Python have to be a
subclass of another metatype."

Ok, I think I'm clear with that, and it seems a little obvious now
that I've typed it (no pun intended :).  After taking a few hours to
fit it into my head every day, it might even become natural.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de  Thu Nov 21 20:06:39 2002
From: dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de (Joerg Woelke)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 02:06:39 +0100
Subject: [Boost.Python] Printed documentation available?
References: <6152d0a0.0211211547.2afdb8df@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DDD831F.91EFE7E0@felis.uni-freiburg.de>

Hi!

Tom Hanks wrote:

Ahm...
 
> Unfortunately for me the available documentation is not
> printer-friendly. Instead it is browser-friendly, organised
> into an html tree 3-4 pages deep.

wget is your tool.
"http://www.gnu.org/software/wget/wget.html"
 
> Tom Hanks.

HTH, J"o!

-- 
$ make LOVE
$ Don't know how to make LOVE. Stop.
$


From Janssen at rz.uni-frankfurt.de  Sat Nov  9 01:32:40 2002
From: Janssen at rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 07:32:40 +0100
Subject: field names from MySQLdb
References: <653cf871.0211081429.2b8c69c8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3dccac08@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

les wrote:

> Hi,
> how do i get field names for a table in MySQLdb?
> thanks
> (i looked into pydoc MySQLdb but did not find it there)

you need any mysql-docs:

show fields from <table-name>;



From pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Nov 20 11:08:46 2002
From: pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:08:46 +0100
Subject: Mirror of Python Cookbook
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.20.17.08.46.349629.2476@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi!

Is there a mirror of the python cookbook?

It has a lot of great recipes, I don't want to 
miss them if the sever is down.

 thomas

-- 
Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
http://www.thomas-guettler.de


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 13 13:56:07 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:56:07 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de> <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <3DD0D765.3030907@web.de> <3DD16CAF.41214BBA@alcyone.com> <aqrvhs$mqf$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3dd1ffd7$0$63936$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <hbidnSqaPvrkAk-gXTWcpw@comcast.com>

"Jens Axel S?gaard" <usenet at soegaard.net> wrote in message
news:3dd1ffd7$0$63936$edfadb0f at dread15.news.tele.dk...

> Beating
>
>   http://www.htdp.org

Thanks.  I'll learn a few things from this. However, apropos to the
thread topic, I am somewhat flabbergasted that anyone could think that
Scheme's

   (sort (cons 1297.04 (cons 20000.00 (cons -505.25 empty))))
   ;; expected value:
   (cons 20000.00 (cons 1297.04 (cons -505.25 empty)))

(section 12.2) is a sensible list notation to inflict on anyone, let
alone newcomers, in preference to anything like Python's [1297.04,
2000.00, -505.25], etc.  I understand that there is a pedagogical
point in using such notation to explain list construction and
destruction, but the above comes well beyond that part ot the book.

> and
>
>  http://www-mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/

I read the hard copy a few years ago due to recommendations of Python
posters.  Also good.

> are hard though.

Terry J. Reedy




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Mon Nov 11 05:30:23 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:30:23 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
In-Reply-To: <fj2nqa.7l4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net> <aqilvp$3l1$0@216.39.172.122> <3dcd6aee.7793165@news.earthlink.net> <aqktm8$7ug$0@216.39.172.122> <3dceb920.8008485@news.earthlink.net> <fj2nqa.7l4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3FLz9.13073$eX.32901@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

>         Need speed, and some access to a posix thread system...

Any Python portable thread system.

>         IMO, I'm going to present some bad news...
> 
>         From what you've said, I'd almost think you were coming at it from the 
> wrong direction. 
> 
>         /I/ think what you'll end up with is a C/C++ application with an 
> embedded Python interpreter for your scripting, and maybe for part of 
> the graphical part of the user-interface... But the rest of the 
> application strongly sounds like it needs to be ported to a different 
> OS (drop the MS-DOS mode for Windows or Linux) and cleaned up -- 
> remaining in C or rewritten in C++.

I don't agree.  I think the approach he outlined is correct.  I believe 
a common mistake is to think "app with embedded Python", when what you 
really mean, and ended up with, is "python with embedded app".

To the OP: Creating a Python extension is quite trivial.  The Python 
source tree has at least one example extension module in PC\example_nt, 
and others should be simple to find - indeed mine and Andy's book has 
such an example.

So I'm really not sure what the question boils down to ;)

Mark.



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Nov  7 11:48:17 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:48:17 -0000 
Subject: IBM MQ Series
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDAB8@intrepid>

> From:	Daniel Klein [SMTP:danielk at aracnet.com]
> Is there a Python interface for this, such that I can connect to a MQ
> server and send/recv messages?
 
<http://www.hare.demon.co.uk/pymqi/pymqi.html>

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From Psyco at mailme.dk  Mon Nov 11 15:34:38 2002
From: Psyco at mailme.dk (Mads Sejersen)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 20:34:38 GMT
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <aqokmr$lgb$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <3dd0145e$0$75431$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
> a single line of code.
>
> perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
>
> can python do something like this?

Goto http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py and search for lambda


From stuart at bmsi.com  Fri Nov  8 01:13:03 2002
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 06:13:03 GMT
Subject: Dynamic loading of modules in AIX
References: <pan.2002.11.08.03.04.11.277195.12688@metaslash.com>
Message-ID: <PBIy9.16147$6b.609463@news2.east.cox.net>

On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 22:04:23 -0500, Neal Norwitz wrote:

> I'm trying to get python to load dynamic modules. But after loading the
> module, when code inside the module calls back into the main program, it
> seg faults.  More details below.

You need to use ld_so_aix, which imports the symbols for the main program
into the loadable modules.  Otherwise, those symbols are unresolved
giving a coredump when called. 

You can find my RPM spec file for python-2.2 at
http://www.bmsi.com/aix/python-2.2.spec

(along with binary RPMs and a tar of rpm itself.  RPM needs LANG=C on
some AIX versions.)

Even if you don't use RPM on AIX, the spec file will tell you how to
build python.  Look at the %build section.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Nov  5 07:24:45 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 13:24:45 +0100
Subject: Regex: Matching characters, but not digits
References: <aq8bvi$2hv$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <j4of94yzjm.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Thomas Guettler <zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de> writes:

> \w matches characters and digits. But,
> how can I match only characters?
> 
> This should work for unicode, too

This is currently not supported, directly. SRE should be able to
support Posix regex categories, such as [:alpha:], and Unicode
categories, such as [:Ll:], but at the moment, it doesn't.

Patches in this area are welcome.

Your best bet is to generate a character class yourself. For Unicode,
you can use

alphaclass = [u"["]
for i in range(32, sys.maxunicode):
  c = unichr(i)
  if c.isalpha():
    alphaclass.append(c)
alphaclass.append(u"]")
alphaclass = "".join(alphaclass)

Compiling this particular regular expression will be expensive, but
matching it won't: it is compiled into a bitmap internally, with a
constant-time test. 

Regards,
Martin


From zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Nov  5 07:06:23 2002
From: zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:06:23 +0100
Subject: Regex: Matching characters, but not digits
Message-ID: <aq8bvi$2hv$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi!

\w matches characters and digits. But,
how can I match only characters?

This should work for unicode, too

  thomas



From steve410 at blaze.cs.jhu.edu  Tue Nov 26 14:04:57 2002
From: steve410 at blaze.cs.jhu.edu (Steve Rifkin)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:04:57 -0500
Subject: Please help!  Getting python errors running mailman after an apache 
 install.
Message-ID: <3DE3C5D8.ECE85757@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>

Hi!  We've recently upgraded Apache on our webserver to version 1.3.27.
Since then, our web interface to mailman (2.08)  has stopped running.
The current error we're seeing is python related (we're running python
2.2.2 -- we rebuilt python again just to make sure there wasn't a
problem with python).  The errors from mailman are below.

The main error is:

admin(7162): ImportError: ld.so.1: /usr/local/bin/python: fatal:
/usr/local/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/_socket.so: bad ELF flags value:
256

And I have no idea what that python-related error is.

Note that things worked before the apache upgrade, but now mailman is
complaining about python.

If anyone has any info regarding  this error (or the errors below), can
you please e-mail me directly in addition to your post on this
newsgroup?  Thanks so much in advance!    Steve      steve410 at cs.jhu.edu

Mailman 2.08's python 2.2.2 errors (when accessing mailman web
interfaces):

====================================



admin(7153):    DOCUMENT_ROOT: /users/httpd/htdocs
Nov 26 11:19:04 2002 admin(7162):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(7162): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.8 -----]
admin(7162): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(7162): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(7162):   File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 80, in run_main

admin(7162):     import Mailman.pythonlib.cgi
admin(7162):   File "../Mailman/pythonlib/cgi.py", line 31, in ?
admin(7162):     import urllib
admin(7162):   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib.py", line 26, in ?
admin(7162):     import socket
admin(7162):   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/socket.py", line 41, in ?
admin(7162):     from _socket import *
admin(7162): ImportError: ld.so.1: /usr/local/bin/python: fatal:
/usr/local/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/_socket.so: bad ELF flags value:
256
admin(7162): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(7162): sys.version    = 2.2.2 (#1, Nov 25 2002, 15:28:57)
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)]
admin(7162): sys.executable = /usr/local/bin/python
admin(7162): sys.prefix     = /usr/local
admin(7162): sys.exec_prefix= /usr/local
admin(7162): sys.path       = /usr/local
admin(7162): sys.platform   = sunos5
admin(7162): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(7162):    HTTP_PRAGMA: no-cache
admin(7162):    PYTHONPATH: /home/mailman
admin(7162):    SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) PHP/4.2.3
mod_perl/1.27
admin(7162):    SCRIPT_FILENAME: /home/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
admin(7162):    SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at cs.jhu.edu
admin(7162):    SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admin
admin(7162):    SCRIPT_URI: http://www.cs.jhu.edu/mailman/admin
admin(7162):    SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.27 Server at
www.cs.jhu.edu Port 80</ADDRESS>

admin(7162):    REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(7162):    HTTP_HOST: www.cs.jhu.edu
admin(7162):    SCRIPT_URL: /mailman/admin
admin(7162):    SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.0
admin(7162):    QUERY_STRING:
admin(7162):    HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
admin(7162):    REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admin
admin(7162):    HTTP_ACCEPT: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg,
image/pjpeg, image/png, */*
admin(7162):    HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: iso-8859-1,*,utf-8
admin(7162):    HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6
sun4u)
admin(7162):    TZ: US/Eastern
admin(7162):    SERVER_NAME: www.cs.jhu.edu
admin(7162):    REMOTE_ADDR: 128.220.13.39
admin(7162):    REMOTE_PORT: 35634
admin(7162):    HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en
admin(7162):    SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(7162):    GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(7162):    HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip
admin(7162):    SERVER_ADDR: 128.220.13.101
admin(7162):    DOCUMENT_ROOT: /users/httpd/htdocs



--

Steve

steve410 at cs.jhu.edu





From tom at bigpier.com  Wed Nov 13 01:09:05 2002
From: tom at bigpier.com (Tom Nunamaker)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:09:05 -0600
Subject: Problems having Python read from SQL server
Message-ID: <MPG.183ba8615db5065f989684@news.newsguy.com>

I'm a Python newbie.  I need to connect from a Win2K Python script to a 
MS SQL server database on another computer.  I've tried several methods.    
The DSN is setup as a system DSN and it has the UID/PWD in the DSN 
setup.  Other programs can connect fine with the DSN. 

The common error I'm getting with Python scripts is:

"[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Login failed for user 
'(null)'.  Reason: Not associated with a trusted SQL Server connection."

How can I create a trusted connection?  The SQL server is on a shared 
ISP's box and I don't have the sa login for it.

Any other suggestions to connect python to this DB?

Thanks

Tom


From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Nov 19 14:35:05 2002
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J Lee)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 11:35:05 -0800
Subject: Generic lazily seekable file-like object wrapper?
Message-ID: <c177ebeb.0211191135.9ed4c7@posting.google.com>

Does anybody have a (free) file-like object wrapper that adds a
seek method and allows lazily read()ing from the wrapped file-like
object?  ie.:

fh = urlopen("http://foo.bar.com/")  # any old file-like object
assert hasattr(fh, "read") or hasattr(fh, "readline")
assert not hasattr(fh, "seek")
sfh = LazilySeekableFile(fh)  # doesn't call fh.read
do_something(sfh.read(100))  # calls fh.read
sfh.seek(0)  # doesn't call fh.seek
print sfh.read(100)  # doesn't call fh.read or fh.readline


John


From rmunn at pobox.com  Fri Nov  8 20:19:00 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:19:00 GMT
Subject: Newbie-list-problem: how to supress constraining  2 lists - a=b ?
References: <813cfe33.0211080235.5d4b8c9e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasoos8.ksn.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 at 10:35 GMT, HugOnline <thehugonline at yahoo.de> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm a Python - newbie and I can not solve the following problem:
> 
>>>>a=[8,7,6,5,4]   # set this list to a
>>>>b=a             # I' want to have two same lists: a and b
>>>>b.sort()        # b should be sorted
>>>>print b         # it's ok 
> [4,5,6,7,8]
>>>>print a
> [4,5,6,7,8]        # but a is sorted, too !!!  
> 
> How can I suppress the constraining of a and b? I want to have in the
> result two list - a unsorted and b sorted. Is there a switch to supress
> it?

You're confusing the name of the thing with the thing itself. In Python,
names of objects are separate from the actual objects. With your first
line, you created a list of five integers and made the name 'a' point to
that list. With your second line, you made the name 'b' point to the
same object as the name 'a'.

If you want to copy the list, use something like slice notation:

b = a[:]

This creates a copy of the list pointed to by 'a' and makes 'b' point to
that copy. That will do what you were expecting.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Tue Nov 12 10:17:48 2002
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:17:48 +0000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Tk extension for python]
Message-ID: <1037114269.18235.0.camel@m-franklin>

Sorry Martin!!!  new mail client!

-----Forwarded Message-----

> From: Martin Franklin <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>
> To: Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de>
> Subject: Re: Tk extension for python
> Date: 12 Nov 2002 13:54:13 +0000
> 
> On Tue, 2002-11-12 at 13:38, Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> > 1327055037 Anatol Sukhomlyn <anatols at ukr.net> writes:
> > 
> > > How i can add Tktable extension to python?
> > > I think it is very good package into Tcl/Tk 
> > 
> > If you tell me how you add it to Tcl, I will tell you how to add it to
> > Tkinter.
> > 
> 
> Once again google is you friend....  search for TkTable python Tix
> and you should end up with :-
> 
> 
> http://tix.sourceforge.net/Tixapps/src/Python/
> 
> 
> (I think this is the second time this month)
> 
> 
> 





From kennethg at pd.jaring.my  Mon Nov 11 07:24:14 2002
From: kennethg at pd.jaring.my (Kenneth Gomez)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:24:14 GMT
Subject: How to create and interactive, distributable program?
Message-ID: <3dcfa0e3.921157@news.jaring.my>

Hello all,

In my course, I am asked to develop a basic finite element analysis
program. It is basically a program for engineers to evaluate the
stresses and strains in any given structure, e.g. beams, cars, ships
and so forth.

The program would need to have a GUI. The main characteristics of any
commercial FEA package is that it has to be mouse drive, i.e. a user
clicks the rectangle button from a widget and then proceeds to click 4
points on the drawing window, and the program then draws a rectangle
using those 4 points. 

After which, the program would have to calculate the area of the
rectangle and then proceed to divide the rectangle into many small
rectangles, which length would be given by the user. In FEA, this
would be known as meshing.

To do all of this, my questions are , can Python handle the
mathematics, e.g. does Python have a subroutine to inverse a matrix,
or find the modulus of a number,....? Or, is it like C, where I have
to write the subroutine myself?

Second, will I be able to create the GUI explained above within 3
months?

Third, can I make the GUI into an executable file so that I can run it
off the laptop/workstation that will be used for the presentation?

Thanking you in advance for your advise.




Cheers,
Kenneth Gomez.


From mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Tue Nov  5 15:13:57 2002
From: mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Matthias Huening)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 20:13:57 GMT
Subject: SSH/SCP
References: <Xns92BC9FE0EDD4Fmhueningzedatfuberli@130.133.1.4> <usd6h0f6d8g5b2@corp.supernews.com> <2259b0e2.0211050833.7367bf5f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92BDD7FDEEBA2mhueningzedatfuberli@130.133.1.4>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in
news:2259b0e2.0211050833.7367bf5f at posting.google.com: 

>  the simplest way to do is to download
> (for free) putty and use something like
> 

Okay, I tried your solution (using PSCP). Works fine. I think I'll stick 
to it, because there seems to be no usable Python module which would do 
the job without external support.

Thanks, Matthias


From wks000 at t-online.de  Sun Nov 10 09:11:27 2002
From: wks000 at t-online.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:11:27 +0100
Subject: Determining Presence Of GUI Support
References: <42aiqa.jp82.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <aL2z9.8372$Bs5.285294@news1.tin.it> <vpgjqa.l7h2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <aqkudq$9tu$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <h5qssuc9k1ubufru1ao7b91tkhoeav1hb7@4ax.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter):

>On 09 Nov 2002 17:40:11 GMT, Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote:
>[...]
>>
>>Years ago, in the transition from MS-DOS to Windows, there used to be
>>a way to lay a DOS binary into the Windows executable file.  That way,

>I suspect there still is, normally used for the code that tells you
>"This program cannot be run in DOS mode." ;-)

Correct, there still is. Adding /stub:<filename> as a linker option
uses <filename> instead of the buildin stub.

-- 
Wir danken f?r die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen


From 2002 at weholt.org  Mon Nov  4 07:46:09 2002
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:46:09 GMT
Subject: Extending distutils ??
References: <XRhx9.375$P35.11936@news2.ulv.nextra.no> <m3d6pm456m.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <l_tx9.528$P35.13918@news2.ulv.nextra.no>

I think I got an idea on how to solve some of the things I mentioned. I'll
give it a shot and post an announcement if the effort produces any useful
results.

Thomas

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:m3d6pm456m.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "Thomas Weholt" <2002 at weholt.org> writes:
>
> > Distutils is great, but adding a few features would make it almost
perfect.
> > Since we allready got a documentation package in the standard distro why
> > can't Distutils generate documentation using pydoc in the process of
> > generating a package for distribution?
>
> All distutils questions have a simple answer: Nobody contributes anything.
> You can make a difference (actually, a context diff would do :-)
>
> Regards,
> Martin




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Nov 13 17:16:36 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:16:36 -0800
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
In-Reply-To: <8087437.1037225519862.JavaMail.camhorn@mac.com>
References: <8087437.1037225519862.JavaMail.camhorn@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2147483647.1037196996@dhcp31-169.ics.uci.edu>

On 11/13/02 2:11 PM -0800 Cameron Horn <camhorn at mac.com> wrote:
>> What I wonder is, why does it need to be a generator?  What's wrong with
>> def foo(): return ( )
>> ?
>
> You're right if it's a one-time thing.  However, if I've got a
> scaffolding like this, then it matters.
>
> def process_generator(function):
>    for x in function():
>       print x

How does the function foo() I defined above fail to work in this 
scaffolding?
--
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/




From lac at strakt.com  Fri Nov 29 17:03:06 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 23:03:06 +0100
Subject: Anybody using vtk and Python out there? 
In-Reply-To: Message from stojek@part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek) 
   of "Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:36:22 GMT." <3de7b230.19875609@news.easynews.net> 
References: <3de7b230.19875609@news.easynews.net> 
Message-ID: <200211292203.gATM36en013279@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> Hi,
> 
> I have to visualize huge amount of data and I would like to use Python
> and vtk. So far I have seen only two methods to get data into the vtk
> structure.
> 1. Using a vtkReader (e.g. vtkUnstructuredGridReader)
> 
> 2 Generating Cell one by one:.
>          P=vtkPoints()
>             P.InsertPoint(..)
>            C=vtkCellArray()
>            C.InsertNextCell.... and so on
> 
> The first method is not flexible enough and the second is very slow.
> Does anybody know another way?
> Thanks
> marcus
> -- 

MayaVi http://mayavi.sourceforge.net/ uses Python to script VTK.
The mailing list mayavi-users at lists.sf.net may also be of interest.

Laura Creighton



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Nov 19 20:44:21 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:44:21 -0500
Subject: yield: implementation details and other technica
References: <sbejtu49jq3r9csj4d2lip4hpmd7dqq2fr@4ax.com>
 <rxnC9.9055$Q27.2610@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <1ju29kKkXQcR092yn@gnosis.cx>                

    I have a technical problem for which grabbing the context of a
    generator and *throwing* it up the stack would be preferable to the
    current implementation...  What I want is a giant coroutine between
    a bunch of objects and a master scheduler that I control....For one,
    certain high level methods are called that imply a yield in a higher
    context.

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote previously:
|Joe, try looking at:
|http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_b7.txt
|The article shows how to use generators with a master scheduler.  His
|example shows how to implement co-routines, but it is general purpose.
|Used this way, the scheduler has the ability to resume any process,
|in effect deciding the current continuation.

The article Raymond suggest is indeed probably the most on topic.  It
also follows on a related one.  The HTML versions of both are at:

    http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_b5.html
    http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_b7.html

Moreover, for some more fleshed out examples of scheduling generators,
take a look at the SimPy project.  The authors of that use a bit of the
framework I suggested in those articles, but in a much more fleshed out
form.  The also handle some data passing in a nice way.  But it's not
hard to yield some "cargo" along with a state target, in any case.

One thing I regret in my first article on this is that I used string
names for targets rather than the callable objects themselves.  I think
the latter article fixed that, and I believe SimPy does to.

Generators are even more cool that you might think at first brush.

Yours, David...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Nov  4 12:05:58 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 18:05:58 +0100
Subject: file iterators and codecs, a bug?
References: <mailman.1036422425.9067.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m33cqhmfih.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Greg Aumann <greg2567 at yahoo.com.au> writes:

> Is this definitely a bug, or is it an undocumented
> 'feature' of the codecs module?

Sounds like a bug to me; please submit a report to SF. Better yet,
create a patch (which shouldn't be too difficult to do).

Regards,
Martin



From shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 17:59:04 2002
From: shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com (Richard Dillingham)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:59:04 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net>

It doesn't have ()s, so it ain't two tuples. Easy enough, da?

"Carl Banks" <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote in message
news:arbqp2$rkb$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu...
> Richard Dillingham wrote:
> > Kind of like we have multiple assignments in a line (oldx,oldy=x,y),
what do
> > you think of the ability to have multiple tests in an if statement with
only
> > one == or >=.
> >
> > This would mean that lines like the following:
> > if posx>=coords[0] and posy>=coords[1] and posx<=coords[2] and
> > posy<=coords[3]:
> >
> > Could be rewritten like so:
> > if posx,posy>=coords[0],coords[1] and posx,posy<=coords[2],coords[3]
>
> How would you disambiguate that from a comparison of two tuples?
>
>
> --
> CARL BANKS




From s802645999 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 28 04:41:52 2002
From: s802645999 at yahoo.com (ghostdog)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 01:41:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Sybase modules
In-Reply-To: <20021128053600.23289.20158.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <20021128094152.7367.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com>


hi

i wanted to install Sybase database module  on windows ..which C compiler should i use?? 

thanks

 



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From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov 12 14:33:49 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:33:49 -0600
Subject: Optimisation problem
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D5F996@mail.hebmex.com>
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D5F996@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <20021112193348.GB1756@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 12:43:28PM -0600, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> In this case which is quite simple, yes, it's the
> same result; but others might enlighten us on other
> cases where the "obvious" result isn't the one we'd
> get.
> 
> Any suspects, anyone?

a, b = b, a

?

This is bytecompiled to
          6 LOAD_NAME               0 (b)
          9 LOAD_NAME               1 (a)
         12 BUILD_TUPLE             2
         15 UNPACK_SEQUENCE         2
         18 STORE_NAME              1 (a)
         21 STORE_NAME              0 (b)

A creative individual could possibly write a peephole optimizer to get
rid of BUILD_TUPLE/UNPACK_SEQUENCE, but it means either reversing the
order of calculation or the order of assignment as well.

This approach can't always work, given statements like
        a, b = d or (b, a)

          6 LOAD_NAME                0 (d)
          9 JUMP_IF_TRUE            10 (to 22)
         12 POP_TOP             
         13 LOAD_NAME                1 (b)
         16 LOAD_NAME                2 (a)
         19 BUILD_TUPLE              2
    >>   22 UNPACK_SEQUENCE          2
         25 STORE_NAME               2 (a)
         28 STORE_NAME               1 (b)

Jeff



From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Sun Nov 17 21:26:34 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:26:34 +1300
Subject: Pythoncal, anyone? (My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255))
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org> <PoWcnQjwr8ECy06gXTWc3A@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3DD84FDA.3010708@something.invalid>

I have an idea: Suppose there were a "don't"
statement that could be put in front of another
statement to, effectively, comment it out,
e.g.

  def foo():
    # This function does nothing
    don't print "Hello"

Then an empty generator could be written

  def g():
    don't yield None

Now, since this isn't going to do anything,
it should be permissible to omit any expressions
that would otherwise be required in a statement
covered by a "don't", leaving just

  def g():
    don't yield

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From bdesth at nospam.free.fr  Mon Nov 18 21:32:36 2002
From: bdesth at nospam.free.fr (laotseu)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:32:36 -0500
Subject: Create DLL in Python ?
References: <1b318b70.0211111607.74ace07@posting.google.com> <wIHB9.2132$fY3.214913@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DD9A2C4.2070203@nospam.free.fr>

Chris Tavares wrote:
> "Georges Bernier" <mistericeberg at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1b318b70.0211111607.74ace07 at posting.google.com...
> 
>>Hello,
>>
>>We have a legacy application at work written in Visual C which makes
>>use of a DLL for specific communication functions. Now I have to
>>replace this DLL (whose API is well documented) with an enhanced
>>version which will make use of TCP/IP instead of older protocols
>>without changing the original C application (or at least changing the
>>minimum possible).
>>
>>Naturally I was thinking of using Python (as it has great network
>>libraries and would simplify the development) but after much googling
>>haven't found a clear answer on how to generate standalone DLLs from
>>Python (i.e. DLLs which are not Python extensions).
>>
>>So does anybody have experience in such a thing, is it a bad idea (as
>>I'm starting to think is is) and would it better be done in C/C++ ?
>>I would appreciate comments from the Python community on this.
>>
>>Thanks !
>>
>>Georges Bernier
>>
> 
> 
> You can't avoid coding in C completely, but you can cut down on the amount
> of work tremendously.
> 
> What you need to do is write a C DLL. The DLL will implement your API.
> Inside the implementation, use the Python API to call from the DLL into your
> python code. Essentially embed Python into your DLL. The original app will
> just call the DLL and not know that python's involved at all, and you can
> write your actual logic in Python.
> 
> -Chris
> 
> 
> 

Well.. this might be a solution, but loading a DLL to launch a virtual 
machine to execute some instructions might also be a bit heavy.

As anyone tested such a solution around here ? and with what result ?

Laotseu



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 17 11:57:25 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:57:25 -0500
Subject: Possibly a stupid question regarding Python Classes
References: <3dd7c140$1_6@nopics.sjc>
Message-ID: <v2OdnTS66PN_VUqgXTWcpg@comcast.com>

"Adonis" <deltapigz at telocity.com> wrote in message
news:3dd7c140$1_6 at nopics.sjc...
> Is this even possible:
>
> class Foo:
>     def Bar(self):
>         print 'Foo'
>
> class Fib(Foo):
>     def Bar(self):
>         # do the original Foo.Bar()
go ahead and do it...
    Foo.Bar(self)

>         # NOTE: w/o needing to instantiate Foo

the instance of Fib effectively *is* an instance of Foo

>         # then do:
>         print 'Bar'

Terry J. Reedy




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov  1 18:59:39 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 23:59:39 GMT
Subject: Regex recursion error example.
References: <88caaeda.0211010713.5d3b1e05@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <apv4hb$r2u$0@216.39.172.122>

On 1 Nov 2002 07:13:20 -0800, yin_12180 at yahoo.com (Yin) wrote:

>After tinkering with this issue for a day or so, I've decided to use
>xmllib to solve the problem.  But for future reference, I've attached
>the piece of text that is failing and the two approaches that I've
>tried to make the match.
>
>Of course there are other approaches to doing this parse, but I am
>interested in understanding the regex approach I am trying and its
>limitations.
>
>If there are no solutions using regex, I would be interested in seeing
>a reference to articles or books that discuss overcoming particularly
>long string matches.
>
>Approach 1:
>pattern=re.compile('&lt;PubMedArticle&gt;(.*?)&lt;/PubMedArticle&gt;',
>re.DOTALL)
>self.citationlist = re.findall(pattern, allinput)
>
>Approach 2:
>comppat=re.compile(r'&lt;PubMedArticle&gt;((?:(?!&lt;PubMedArticle&gt;).)*)&lt;/PubMedArticle&gt;',
>re.DOTALL)
>self.citationlist = re.findall(pattern, allinput)
>
>There are three matching to make in this body of text.  The above code
>has been failing on the second of the third.  This problem has only
>been occuring on linux python and Windows python (the stack in Windows
>is just larger enough to accomadate the matches.
>Text to match:
>
>http://160.129.203.97/1998_xmltest.html
>
Here's a little different approach you could try:

 >>> import re
 >>> import urllib
 >>> allinput = urllib.urlopen('http://160.129.203.97/1998_xmltest.html').read()
 >>> len(allinput)
 29714
 >>> pattern=re.compile('(&lt;/?PubMedArticle&gt;)',re.DOTALL)
 >>> allsplit = pattern.split(allinput)

In the following, allsplit[i] is the (.*?) text you wanted, I think, but it's a bit long, so
I just printed the first and last 80 chars and bracketed with <wyw> <...> </wyw>
([w]hat [y]ou [w]ant ;-):

 >>> for i in range(2,len(allsplit),4): print '<wyw>%s\n<...>\n%s</wyw>\n' % (
 ...                    allsplit[i][:80],allsplit[i][-80:])
 ...
 <wyw>
 &lt;MedlineCitation Status=&quot;Completed&quot;&gt;
 &lt;MedlineID&gt;99071918&
 <...>
 quot;&gt;99071918&lt;/ArticleId&gt;
         &lt;/ArticleIdList&gt;
 &lt;/PubmedData&gt;
 </wyw>

 <wyw>
 &lt;MedlineCitation Status=&quot;Completed&quot;&gt;
 &lt;MedlineID&gt;99071917&
 <...>
 quot;&gt;99071917&lt;/ArticleId&gt;
         &lt;/ArticleIdList&gt;
 &lt;/PubmedData&gt;
 </wyw>

 <wyw>
 &lt;MedlineCitation Status=&quot;Completed&quot;&gt;
 &lt;MedlineID&gt;99071916&
 <...>
 quot;&gt;99071916&lt;/ArticleId&gt;
         &lt;/ArticleIdList&gt;
 &lt;/PubmedData&gt;
 </wyw>

Of course, this depends on there being no missing tags for <PubMedArticle> .. </PubMedArticle>
and no alternative forms of those tags.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From teaandbikkie at aol.com  Fri Nov  8 18:49:33 2002
From: teaandbikkie at aol.com (TeaAndBikkie)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 23:49:33 GMT
Subject: socket.py and 2.2.1
References: <d08b86a8.0211081508.38c32924@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021108184933.23310.00000020@mb-mt.aol.com>

>From: susan at provis.com  (Susan Williams)
>
>Hello,
>
>We're finally getting around to upgrading from 1.5.2 to 2.2.1... ;-)
>and I'm having a problem (Solaris 5.7).
>
>I've got the simple (no SSL) socketmodule in my python, and
>when I try to import the socket module I get the following error:
>
>>python
>Python 2.2.1 (#6, May 24 2002, 16:38:14) [C] on sunos5
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import socket
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/socket.py", line 47, in ?
>    __all__.extend(os._get_exports_list(_socket))
>AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '_get_exports_list'
>>>> 
>
>Yup, the source line is there all right, and socket.py and the os
>module seem to be on different planets.  Anyone got a clue what
>is hosed up here?

Perhaps you have an old version of socket.pyc in your Lib directory? Try
deleting (or renaming) socket.pyc and see if the error disappears.

Kind regards,
Misha


From newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Nov  4 18:01:05 2002
From: newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk (Newt)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 23:01:05 GMT
Subject: Str and instance concatanation error
Message-ID: <R_Cx9.11472$t91.80221380@news-text.cableinet.net>

I keep getting the following error when trying to write to a file.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python22\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1292, in __call__
    return apply(self.func, args)
  File "D:\py_stuff\curry.py", line 14, in __call__
    return self.fun(*(self.pending + args), **kw)
  File "D:\py_stuff\chaz.py", line 144, in savefile
    gv.save_char()
  File "D:\py_stuff\globals.py", line 96, in save_char
    file.write('<creator>' + self.creator + '</creator>')
TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'instance' objects

This occurs in a class module (called globals.py). This is used to hold all
my global variables, and also has a method (called save_char) to write these
to a file.

self.creator is initialised in the __init__ as "". Should I create it as a
stringVar instead, or am I doing something incredibly stupid.

TIA

Newt




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Mon Nov  4 10:55:08 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:55:08 -0000 
Subject: problem's with strings
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDA9C@intrepid>

> From:	Richard Mertens [SMTP:richard.mertens at wolfi.org]
> I'd like to convert a text-file von unix to windows and vice versa
> 
> Do you know a solution for this
> 
> 
> When the python script is reading the text-file i have always the Nextline
> - 
> Character on the end. How do you I remove it?
 
crlf.py in the tools/scripts directory of your Python installation converts
from Windows to Unix. You should be able to take it from there. ;-)

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk





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From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Nov  2 12:26:22 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:26:22 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Python rulez
In-Reply-To: <3dc1b6c5$1@news.sentex.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211022023060.6709-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Peter Hansen wrote:

>Alessandro Bottoni wrote:
>> Alle 08:50, venerd? 25 ottobre 2002, Roman Suzi ha scritto:
>> 
>>>Well... this is kinda test message (i'm checking if
>>>Python maillist is reaching my mailbox).
>> 
>> 
>> Welcome to the Python community!
>
>Heh heh... Roman's been here rather a while already.  He
>should be saying that to *you*. :-)

Well, I just wanted to know why my traffic dropped so drastically ;-) It
seems, that I am among the rare one using mail-list rather than newsgroup.

Anyway, thanks for welcoming me!

>-Peter

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by Linux RedHat 7.3




From ajw126NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk  Sun Nov  3 12:33:27 2002
From: ajw126NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:33:27 -0000
Subject: Largeint.h
Message-ID: <3dc55de7$0$239$1b0f2dd5@mercury.nildram.co.uk>

Hi,

Python 2.2.2 doesn't compile under VS.Net because they've removed largeint.h
from the Platform SDK, the current workaround  is to copy the file from VS6.
I don't have VS6, does anyone know where I can download this file? I'd
really like to be able to debug my Python extensions...

Regards,
Andrew Wilkinson
---
Quiet! You'll miss the humorous conclusion




From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Fri Nov 22 18:37:21 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 23:37:21 GMT
Subject: secure sockets
References: <e683c8e1.0211220559.3a51cb8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnattftf.k2.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

adrian wrote:
> hi,
> 
> i need to use use urllib with an https url i.e. using secure sockets.
> I'm on win32 with version 2 python. apparently i need to build python
> with the secure socket option turned on but i can't find out how i
> turn this option on. also do i have to build the whole of python or
> just the socket dll? or is there an easier way to do this using a
> third party dll?
> 
> any help very much appreciated.

I used to offer a SSL-aware socket.pyd for Windows on my homepage. But
it went offline and I don't have new webspace, yet. So for the
meantime, I've put the really interesting pieces on the site of one
Sourceforge project I'm involved in.

The page you'll be interested in is

    http://pypgsql.sourceforge.net/misc/python-ssl.html

Do as described there and HTTPS urls will just work with urllib,
urllib2, etc.

-- Gerhard


From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Nov 19 19:28:24 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:28:24 -0800
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7?
In-Reply-To: <6cBC9.1422$Kw6.870449@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <008b01c2902b$bcd5b1f0$21795418@dell1700>

dsavitsk wrote:
> >>> f = open('somefile')
> >>> u = urllib.urlopen('http://site/index.asp?file=somefile')
> >>> f.write(u.read())
> 
> to get a 5 meg file takes about 1 to 2 seconds on a 500mhz windows
> computer and nearly 2 minutes on a 150mhz freebsd computer.  
> (redhat 8 on a PII350 is also fast) both client computers and the 
> server are on the same network. any ideas?  any other ways to get the
> file?

Could you try retrieving the file using wget/curl/etc on FreeBSD to
verify that it is not a network problem?

Cheers,
Brian 




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 27 13:20:23 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:20:23 -0500
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it> <3DE2893A.CCB631D6@jandecaluwe.com> <3DE449BD.1040503@something.invalid> <3DE48ECC.8FC9AE53@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <B8WcnQH5q_B3kXigXTWcoQ@comcast.com>

"Jan Decaluwe" <jan at jandecaluwe.com> wrote in message
news:3DE48ECC.8FC9AE53 at jandecaluwe.com...
> Ok, let me explain better. Suppose - for the sake of the
> argument - that I have a legitimate need for mutable numbers.

To me, the concept 'mutable number' doesn't 'compute'  very well.

A label or pointer that is attached to or points to different
(eternally existing) numbers at different times (a 'variable') make
sense, and we have such.

A container whose number contents change also make sense, and we also
have that.

One could regard a count as a (changeable) collection of units, but
that is similar to the above and can be modeled either with list or
set/dict.

So what do you mean by mutable number, such that it could be needed
but not available today?

Terry J. Reedy




From nicholas.y at NOSPAM.immersivetechnologies.com  Fri Nov  1 03:50:41 2002
From: nicholas.y at NOSPAM.immersivetechnologies.com (Nicholas Yue)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:50:41 +0800
Subject: urllib2 network access denied 
Message-ID: <3dc2406b$0$6041@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

Hi,

    OS: WindowsXP Professional
    ActiveState Python 2.2

    I am running a schedule task which includes a python script for
retrieving daily report from an external web server.

    My machine sits behind a firewall and a proxy server.

    When I am login, I am able to run the script but once I logout, the
schedule task runs the script on my behalf (I have provided the require
Windows credential to run the script), it fails to have access to the
internet saying that:

File "C:\Python22\lib\urllib2.py", line 400, in http_error_default
raise HTTPError(req.get_full_url(), code, msg, hdrs, fp)
urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 502: Proxy Error ( The specified network name
is no longer available. )
Is this a firewall related problem? Can I setup the firewall stuff (login
etc) using Python?

Cheers









From theller at python.net  Fri Nov 22 04:57:17 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 10:57:17 +0100
Subject: With what module can Python handel *.tar.gz file?
References: <mailman.1037947830.13867.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <n0o2c4g2.fsf@python.net>

"Wang Hanbo" <bswhb at 263.net> writes:

> Hi,
>          Buddies, I have a file named  ***.tar.gz, and I want to gunzip
> it with Python.
>          With which modules can I accomplish this task? And how to?
>  

I can really recommend Lars Gustaebel's tarfile module:
http://www.gustaebel.de/lars/tarfile/

Thomas


From nthomas at cise.ufl.edu  Mon Nov 11 18:44:29 2002
From: nthomas at cise.ufl.edu (N. Thomas)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:44:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: return values for exceptions
Message-ID: <slrnat0g6s.2pf.nthomas@shine.cise.ufl.edu>

I notice that user defined Python exceptions always return a value of 1 to
the shell. I'd like to return different values in my program, depending on
the exception, is there any way to do this?

I suppose that I could trap the exception, and then return a value based on
that, but I'm not too sure if that is the right way to go about doing it.

thanks,
thomas


From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 26 13:46:35 2002
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 10:46:35 -0800
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0211261046.582254a5@posting.google.com>

Thomas Guettler <pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in message news:<pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727 at thomas-guettler.de>...
> I never liked filter, map and reduce. 
> 
> I think it would be good to remove them from the python tutorial. 
> I think the tutorial would be easier for newbies it
> it would be smaller.

The biggest problem with filter, map, and reduce is that they're
functions, not methods.  All this discussion about list comprehensions
versus filter/map ignores one major disadvantage of list
comprehensions: that they only work with lists.  If filter/map/reduce
had been *methods* on list objects, then a programmer could implement
his own container objects (binary trees, subclasses of list, etc.)
with their own filter/map/reduce methods to construct like containers,
and people would be happier.

As far as the tutorial goes, filter/map/reduce could be "discovered"
just like the rest of the methods that aren't emphasized in the
tutorial.

Jeremy


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Nov 21 01:19:43 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:19:43 -0800
Subject: "properties" idiom
Message-ID: <E18EkjF-0005to-00@avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

I could swear I saw a conversation about this on list, but I'm having
trouble finding anything relevant.

Let's say I have a class that exposes an attribute  x as part of it's public
API:

class spam:
    def __init__(self, x):
        self.x = x

Due to later development, however, it's clear (hypothetically)
that setting or getting the value of x, requires a method call
(to update a database, for example).

Is there a standard idiom for calling that method when an outside
caller does something like:

spaminstance.x = 42

or

y = spaminstance.x

(i.e. when we see this, my class actually calls an internal method,
spaminstance.__set_x(42)).  If so, I'd have the same flexibility as if I
had used get_x()/set_x() accessor methods, but my code would
be simpler for the most common case.  Can you do this with Python
today?  I was thinking there might be a way using __getattr__ and
__setattr__, but it initially looks very complex -- is there a preferred
way to do it?

I'm defining an interface now, and I'm wondering whether I should
go with attributes or accessor-methods.  I've been using accessor
methods, but it bloats the interface quite a bit, and I'm wondering if I
can make the interface simpler this way.

Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 18:19:29 2002
From: shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com (Richard Dillingham)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:19:29 GMT
Subject: System Administration with Python -- documentation?
References: <mailman.1037619864.4762.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5AeC9.17354$0U1.1669384@news2.east.cox.net>

> The information in this email is confidential and may be legally
privileged.
> It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone
else
> is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
> copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
> reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
> accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.

*scratches head*
*thinks to himself*
Yeah. Uh. And I can't accept liability for reading your newsgroup post.
Maybe I should make myself a sig like so:

The information contained in this newsgroup post, message board post, or
email, (hereafter referred to as 'this post', 'it', or 'WTF?') is governed
by Terms of Use which are detailed below. If you do not hold the copyright
for this post, reading it constitutes acceptance of the Terms of Use of this
post. Said Terms of Use are:
1) You agree never to give all your worldly possessions to charity, because
they don't want the stuff that's living in your fridge.
2) You agree to steal a nuclear bomb and drop it on Saddam Hussein's head
just to see what will happen. If you cannot get near enough to him to drop
the nuke on his head, you agree to blow him to smithereens with the nuke and
pretend you dropped the nuke on his head. Nobody will be able to tell you
didn't.
3) You agree to ignore any bullets or other objects which Saddam's security
forces throw at you. They're irrelevant. Just set off the fricking nuke and
blow him to kingdom come.
4) You agree to pretend that you have lost the ability to read or write for
a period or time not less than 1 mercurian day, and not to exceed 2
mercurian days. You agree to calculate exactly how long a mercurian day is
in order to fulfill these Terms of Use, without reading or writing, because
you are pretending you can't, remember?
5) You agree to Have a Nice Day.




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Nov 26 05:47:59 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:47:59 +0100
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <20021126043142.4323.25612.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1038295415.22435.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arvjk3$ibp$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:19:46 -0800, Terry Hancock
<hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

>map(), filter(), and reduce() do not represent all of the uses for filter,
>and thus, they can't all be replaced by list comps (BTW, I never used
>reduce, never understood what it was good for, and don't immediately
>see how it can be done using list-comps -- would be genuinely interested
>in seeing a couple of example if anyone's willing). 


from operator import mul

def fac(n):
    #faculty of n
    return reduce(mul,range(2,n+1),1L)

Regards,

	Anton.
---

2658271574788448768043625811014615890319638528000000000L


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov  4 20:03:58 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 01:03:58 GMT
Subject: help() function
References: <0h2esukvqtolp17lt0hdg72ua9t038k18v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <aq75du$jv8$0@216.39.172.122>

On 4 Nov 2002 18:05:19 -0600, Chris Spencer <clspence at one.net> wrote:

>	The documentation makes it clear that the help() function is only used
>in interactive mode.  However, I see it as a really neato-way of generating
>standalone .txt files from docstrings in modules.  However, as it currently
>stands, it looks like help() can ONLY be used in interactive mode, which means I
>can't capture the output to a file.
>	Is there any way to get the same docstring formatting that help() uses,
>but be able to capture it to a variable or a file handle?
>	Inquiring minds want to know.
>
YPMV (Your Path May Vary) but just type

[17:01] C:\pywk>D:\Python22\Lib\pydoc.py
pydoc - the Python documentation tool

D:\Python22\Lib\pydoc.py <name> ...
    Show text documentation on something.  <name> may be the name of a
    function, module, or package, or a dotted reference to a class or
    function within a module or module in a package.  If <name> contains
    a '\', it is used as the path to a Python source file to document.

D:\Python22\Lib\pydoc.py -k <keyword>
    Search for a keyword in the synopsis lines of all available modules.

D:\Python22\Lib\pydoc.py -p <port>
    Start an HTTP server on the given port on the local machine.

D:\Python22\Lib\pydoc.py -g
    Pop up a graphical interface for finding and serving documentation.

D:\Python22\Lib\pydoc.py -w <name> ...
    Write out the HTML documentation for a module to a file in the current
    directory.  If <name> contains a '\', it is treated as a filename; if
    it names a directory, documentation is written for all the contents.

If you are on windows and want to capture output, don't forget to run it
explicitly with 

    python D:\Python22\Lib\pydoc.py > a_file.txt

as extension-triggered program output is not always redirectable.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From NadavH at envision.co.il  Tue Nov 26 11:05:38 2002
From: NadavH at envision.co.il (Nadav Horesh)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:05:38 +0200
Subject: How to generate libpython2.2.so ?
Message-ID: <3DE39BD2.5070700@envision.co.il>

I compiled python 2.2.2 under RedHat 8.0 with gcc 3.2.1 using the simple 
./configure; make combination. It all went smoothly and seems to work 
well, but it does not generate libpython2.2.so, although other shared 
libraries were generated.

I looked at the README and the configure --help option but found no hints.
Any ideas?

  Thanks,
     Nadav.




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 23 20:25:07 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 20:25:07 -0500
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com> <JZmdnSuX451BuX2gXTWc3A@comcast.com> <roy-A43C5B.20103423112002@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <e4edncC15brbtn2gXTWcpQ@comcast.com>

"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
news:roy-A43C5B.20103423112002 at reader1.panix.com...
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> > I think GPG, for instance, blew it when they designed
> > and implemented yet another scripting language for Dungeon Siege
> > instead of using Python (and putting more work into the game
itself).
>
> I've been involved with a few projects where the designers felt the
need
> to invent their own language.  Invariably, it's ended up being a
> mistake.  Which language you pick (Python, Perl, and TCL are all
> plausable choices) is a far less important decision than the core
> decision not to try inventing your own.

Of course.  I meant both 'for instance, Python' but also Python
specifically since what they came up with could be seen as a cross
between (for instance) C and Python.  I forgot to add that a custom
language also needs documentation and tutorials if buyers are to make
any use of it.  This is very easy to short-change and deliver late (as
GPG did) or never.

Terry J. Reedy




From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 14 06:13:23 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:13:23 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de> <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <3DD0D765.3030907@web.de> <3DD16CAF.41214BBA@alcyone.com> <m2el9qjd0f.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3DD1DE6A.1BBEFE5A@alcyone.com> <m2adkdk8ig.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3DD2
Message-ID: <7h3bs4sz9tw.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> > [What do you mean by "Lisp-like language" anyway?  Python seems pretty
> > Lisp-like to me...]
> 
> Languages that look and act like Lisp.  One might argue that Logo
> qualifies (as a once-removed cousin), but I don't see how you can really
> argue that Python looks and acts like Lisp.

Looks like, no.  Acts like, yes -- dynamic nature, manifest types,
everything's an object (in some sense, not the Smalltalk one).

> If Python is Lisp-like then what isn't?

C++?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Lisp does badly because we refuse to lie.  When people ask us if 
  we can solve insoluble problems we say that we can't, and because 
  they expect us to lie to them, they find some other language
  where the truth is less respected.   -- Tim Bradshaw, comp.lang.lisp


From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Mon Nov 25 15:34:02 2002
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:34:02 +0100
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DE2893A.CCB631D6@jandecaluwe.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 

> So, to wrap an arbitrary object X in such a way that X's special
> methods will be used by any operator, you need to ensure you do
> the wrapping with a _class_ that exposes said special methods.
> That's generally easiest to do with a factory function with a
> nested class that uses inheritance, but you have many other choices
> depending on what exactly you're trying to accomplish.

Mm, I think I see, thanks for that. (I'll try again to understand this 
from the documentation.) However, if I use inheritance from an immutable 
type, the subtype is automatically immutable also, right? So I wanted
mutability, I'm back to delegation ... and apparently stuck with
new-style classes ???

Jan

--
Jan Decaluwe
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Nov  6 15:58:23 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:58:23 GMT
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pnfy9.2862$h%5.101642@newsb.telia.net>

Tim Peters wrote:

> > What am I supposed to do to make the warning go away? Rewrite 0x80000000
> > as 0x40000000 * 2 ? ;-)
>
> Write it in a platform-independent way.  If you *intended* this literal to
> mean "a 1 bit followed by 31 zero bits", then stick an L on the end of the
> literal.

...and remove it again when you get to Python 2.5.

</F>




From animeshk at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  9 10:38:02 2002
From: animeshk at yahoo.com (animeshk)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 07:38:02 -0800
Subject: Odd problem with Wing IDE & PythonForDelphi extensions
Message-ID: <4cce07d5.0211090738.370f3c2c@posting.google.com>

I am encountering an oddity with the Wing IDE and Delphi extensions
written using PythonForDelphi.  These problems do not happen when
running in a Python command prompt, and they do not happen with
running within PythonWin.

Basically, I took the PythonForDelphi example where you create a new
Python data type (a "Point", created with a "CreatePoint" function in
the Delphi DLL).  I put this code in a DLL, and wrote the appropriate
"init" function for Python.  Cool.  It worked at the command line. 
However, if I ran this within the Wing IDE, I get a "Debugging Stopped
Unexpectedly" error:

"Error: The debug connection closed unexpectedly while waiting for
reply type 0x1011 after message type 0x70001:
Runtime failure details:
Exception: socket.error
Value = (10054, 'winsock error')

Of course, I'm not using winsock at all.

I also encountered this same error when I used the PythonForDelphi
example for accessing the database from a DLL.  I've seen this in both
Delphi 7 and Delphi 6.

I realize that this isn't enough information: if anyone would like the
source for the DLL, for testing, let me know.

Does anyone know what this might mean?  Is this a Wing IDE bug?  

Thanks!


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Nov 14 02:22:56 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 08:22:56 +0100
Subject: xml.dom.minidom.parse(fname).save() still complains about UnicodeError...
References: <6acfe44e.0211132209.2f07dd2f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3bs4svcmn.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

juha.o.ylitalo at kolumbus.fi (juha.o.ylitalo at kolumbus.fi) writes:

> >>> print d.toxml()
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

Here, .toxml() returns a unicode object. It is the attempt to print
this Unicode object that fails.

Try

print d.toxml().encode("utf-8")

Regards,
Martin


From tracy at reinventnow.com  Sat Nov 23 00:39:10 2002
From: tracy at reinventnow.com (Tracy Ruggles)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 21:39:10 -0800
Subject: help interpreting a gdb traceback
Message-ID: <dd32f595.0211222139.7581fd7b@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Not knowing a whole lot about c code, I'm trying to track down a rare
bug that's happening.  The code below is the 'bt' command from using
gdb on the core that's being dumped.

My current interpretation is that 1) a thread is being started, 2)
"eval" code is being called somewhere and 3) the system dies during
garbage collection.

My hypothesis is that bad things happen when eval is called in a
thread (at least on my system --> '2.2.1 (#5, Aug 21 2002, 03:45:02)
\n[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release) [FreeBSD]]')

So, to test my hypothesis, I'm changing the one or two places in my
code where eval is being used and sit back and watch what happens.

In the mean time, does anyone else have any insight on what this
traceback has hidden in it?

Thanks
--Tracy


---------- START TRACEBACK ----------

(gdb) bt
#0  _PyObject_GC_New (tp=0x80f08e0) at Modules/gcmodule.c:864
#1  0x80c1cab in PyDict_New () at Objects/dictobject.c:161
#2  0x80a9361 in PyInstance_NewRaw (klass=0x811800c, dict=0x0) at
Objects/classobject.c:508
#3  0x80a9439 in PyInstance_New (klass=0x811800c, arg=0x9c479ec,
kw=0x0) at Objects/classobject.c:539
#4  0x80a6404 in PyObject_Call (func=0x811800c, arg=0x9c479ec, kw=0x0)
at Objects/abstract.c:1684
#5  0x8076f71 in PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords (func=0x811800c,
arg=0x9c479ec, kw=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:3049
#6  0x80859c2 in PyErr_NormalizeException (exc=0xbfa989e8,
val=0xbfa989ec, tb=0xbfa989f0)
    at Python/errors.c:173
#7  0x8075f0f in eval_frame (f=0x839180c) at Python/ceval.c:2281
#8  0x80767a8 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx (co=0x8173180, globals=0x8171d0c,
locals=0x0, args=0x8396498, argcount=1,
    kws=0x839a0d0, kwcount=0, defs=0x0, defcount=0, closure=0x0) at
Python/ceval.c:2585
#9  0x80b6cb0 in function_call (func=0x82d638c, arg=0x839648c,
kw=0x829250c) at Objects/funcobject.c:374
#10 0x80a6404 in PyObject_Call (func=0x82d638c, arg=0x839648c,
kw=0x829250c) at Objects/abstract.c:1684
#11 0x80abb1c in instancemethod_call (func=0x82d638c, arg=0x80fb10c,
kw=0x829250c)
    at Objects/classobject.c:2276
#12 0x80a6404 in PyObject_Call (func=0x838cccc, arg=0x80fb10c,
kw=0x829250c) at Objects/abstract.c:1684
#13 0x8076f71 in PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords (func=0x838cccc,
arg=0x80fb10c, kw=0x829250c)
    at Python/ceval.c:3049
#14 0x80c40dd in builtin_apply (self=0x0, args=0x838cecc) at
Python/bltinmodule.c:95
#15 0x80c2785 in PyCFunction_Call (func=0x810c0a0, arg=0x838cecc,
kw=0x0) at Objects/methodobject.c:80
#16 0x80757b3 in eval_frame (f=0x837240c) at Python/ceval.c:2004
#17 0x80767a8 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx (co=0x8296c00, globals=0x829880c,
locals=0x0, args=0x8372360, argcount=1,
    kws=0x8372364, kwcount=0, defs=0x0, defcount=0, closure=0x0) at
Python/ceval.c:2585
#18 0x80787b4 in fast_function (func=0x82c0d8c, pp_stack=0xbfa98e04,
n=1, na=1, nk=0) at Python/ceval.c:3161
#19 0x8075855 in eval_frame (f=0x837220c) at Python/ceval.c:2024
#20 0x80767a8 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx (co=0x8296cc0, globals=0x829880c,
locals=0x0, args=0x83964d8, argcount=1,
    kws=0x0, kwcount=0, defs=0x0, defcount=0, closure=0x0) at
Python/ceval.c:2585
#21 0x80b6cb0 in function_call (func=0x82c0dcc, arg=0x83964cc, kw=0x0)
at Objects/funcobject.c:374
#22 0x80a6404 in PyObject_Call (func=0x82c0dcc, arg=0x83964cc, kw=0x0)
at Objects/abstract.c:1684
#23 0x80abb1c in instancemethod_call (func=0x82c0dcc, arg=0x80fb10c,
kw=0x0) at Objects/classobject.c:2276
#24 0x80a6404 in PyObject_Call (func=0x838cdcc, arg=0x80fb10c, kw=0x0)
at Objects/abstract.c:1684
#25 0x8076f71 in PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords (func=0x838cdcc,
arg=0x80fb10c, kw=0x0) at Python/ceval.c:3049
#26 0x8097d4d in t_bootstrap (boot_raw=0x839a0b0) at
./Modules/threadmodule.c:190
#27 0x2810fe9b in _thread_start () from /usr/lib/libc_r.so.4
#28 0x0 in ?? ()
(gdb)


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Nov 15 13:28:46 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:28:46 +0000
Subject: wrapping all class methods
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com>
 <mailman.1037377943.13167.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hHvZmLAezT19Ewxq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

..... it seems I was asking a question that Python cannot answer as traceback.print_exc()
will only print a traceback back to the point at which it's caught.
The stack frames are there and can be listed further, but I don't
think that the line number information is always good beyond the traceback.

############# traceback.py
def tracebackAdvice(origMethod, methodName):
        def wrap_traceback_method(*args, **kwargs):
                inst = args[0]
                try:
                        origMethod(*args, **kwargs)
                except:
                        print '[%s.%s]' % (inst.__class__.__name__, methodName)
                        from traceback import print_exc
                        print_exc()
                        print 'stack info'
                        import sys
                        f = sys._getframe(1)
                        while f:
                                co = f.f_code
                                print 'name:%s file:%s co_lno:%d lasti:%d f_lno:%d' % (co.co_name, co.co_filename,
co.co_firstlineno, f.f_lasti, f.f_lineno)
                                f = f.f_back

        return wrap_traceback_method

def _allMethods(C):
        from inspect import ismethod, getmembers
        M = []
        m = M.append
        for methodname,method in getmembers(C):
                if ismethod(method): m(methodname)
        return tuple(M)

def tracebackWrap(C, *M):
                for m in M or _allMethods(C):
                        setattr(C, m, tracebackAdvice(getattr(C, m), m))

if __name__=='__main__':
        class A(object):
                def f(self, x):
                        assert x>=0
                        print "real f", x
        tracebackWrap(A, "f")
        def L2():
                a = A()
                a.f(1)
                a.f(-1)
        def L1():
                L2()
        def L0():
                L1()
        L0()
#################################
C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends>tbwrap.py
real f 1
[A.f]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends\tbwrap.py", line 5, in wrap_traceback_method
    origMethod(*args, **kwargs)
  File "C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends\tbwrap.py", line 35, in f
    assert x>=0
AssertionError
stack info
name:L2 file:C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends\tbwrap.py co_lno:38 lasti:43 f_lno:41
name:L1 file:C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends\tbwrap.py co_lno:42 lasti:9 f_lno:43
name:L0 file:C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends\tbwrap.py co_lno:44 lasti:9 f_lno:45
name:? file:C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends\tbwrap.py co_lno:1 lasti:138 f_lno:46

C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends>
-- 
Robin Becker


From TOGLIMIcuni at programmazione.it  Thu Nov 14 18:23:58 2002
From: TOGLIMIcuni at programmazione.it (Antonio Cuni)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:23:58 +0000
Subject: property problems
References: <46a101c28bb2$6f2d1420$7635bcc3@blueyonder.net> <1wOA9.85898$MGm1.48783@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <LXOA9.8568$744.290820@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <eab1ra.0v1.ln@anto.cuni.lan>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> What really determines if x is a new-style class is x's metaclass,
> and rather than inheriting it from x's base (which is the normal
> way to do it) you may alternatively choose to assert it explicitly
> by a __metaclass__ attribute in class scope (or a global variable
> __metaclass__ in module scope if x has no bases).  x is new-style
> iff x's metaclass is the built-in type object named 'type'.
 
uhm... type inherit from object, but object's metaclass is type: isn't 
there a recursion problem?

ciao Anto
PS & OT: what's the english for "circolo vizioso"?
-- 
"Computer science is not about computers any more than astronomy
is about telescopes." -- EW Dijkstra


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Tue Nov 19 14:40:55 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:40:55 -0800
Subject: popen / batchfile / environment variables
In-Reply-To: <are0ca$bm$07$1@news.t-online.com>; from achim.domma@syynx.de on Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 07:37:52PM +0100
References: <are0ca$bm$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20021119114055.C30986@ActiveState.com>

[Achim Domma wrote]
> Hello,
> 
> I want to write a python script with automaticaly builds a VC.Net solution.
> To make VS.Net usable from commandline, I first have to execute a batchfile
> which sets the required environment variables. In a Dos-Box I would do
> something like this:
> 
> path_to\vcvars32.bat
> devenv solution_file.sln /rebuild "Release"
> 
> If I use popen or system to do the same, every call runs in his own
> environment, so the changes made by the .bat file do not change the settings
> for the second call.
> 
> Any idea how to do that in python?

1. run this:
    path_to\vcvars32.bat && devenv solution_file.sln /rebuild "Release"

2. create a wrapper batch file with those two lines and run the new
   batch file:
        ---- temp.bat -------
        path_to\vcvars32.bat
        devenv solution_file.sln /rebuild "Release"
        ---------------------
   
   fout = os.popen('temp.bat')


Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Wed Nov 20 19:41:13 2002
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:41:13 +0800
Subject: PyOpenGL install issues....
Message-ID: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F01ADD2@mexper1.maptek.net.au>

Hi Bryan,

I too had lots of difficulty installing PyOpenGL on RH8.

I can't tell exactly what your problem is, however it does look similar
to the error messages I was getting.

I solved the problem by installing Numeric, OpenGL, GLUT, then PyOpenGL.
I have an nvidia card, which came with its own set of OpenGL drivers,
but did not come with GLUT.

I then had to change the PyOpenGL configuration file to use -lGL -lGLU
-lGlut instead of the mesa libs. I suggest you make sure you have all
the required libs, then try and build PyOpenGL again. 

Its worth the trouble, PyOpenGL is great!; Esp. when used with pygame
(SDL).


-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan [mailto:bryan at akanta.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2002 3:46 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: PyOpenGL install issues....


Hi,

I am trying to install PyOpenGL for the first time on a Redhat 8.0 
system.  I am getting errors though, anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
Bryan





From slash at peereboom.us  Mon Nov  4 08:55:51 2002
From: slash at peereboom.us (Marco Peereboom)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:55:51 -0600
Subject: Is there a good checksum system for OPENBSD?
References: <v03110708b9ebc25f468a@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <019701c28409$e310db20$6400a8c0@slashmarco>

The other day there was an article in onlamp about this very question.

See: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2002/10/31/ssn_openbsd.html?page=2

----- Original Message -----
From: "John D." <lists at webcrunchers.com>
To: <list at dshield.org>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>; <tech at openbsd.org>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 00:27
Subject: Is there a good checksum system for OPENBSD?


> I'm looking for a Program that compares md5 file checksums in a file
against actual files and reports discrepancies.   A commercial program like
"Tripwire" does this,  but isn't there an Open Source program that can do
this.
>
> It would be a good thing to use for files in the /bin directories,  and
other places where one would not expect files to be changed,   but would
easily identify trojans,  and other changes to executeable files and
binaries.
>
> I suppose it wouldn't be that hard to write this in Python or Perl.   But
how long would it take to checksum thousands of files?
>
> John
>
>




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Nov 22 15:38:30 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:38:30 -0500
Subject: Python order warts (and others)
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
 <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
 <TUrD9.58023$Yw.2622115@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <GXp39kKkXQ7c092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote previously:
[...'<' used to be an order relation, but isn't now...]
|Why comparing string 'plak' with the number 23 is OK, but comparing it
|with 23j isn't, kind of escapes me -- but apparently property (2) was
|deemed less desirable than the ability to forbid e.g. comparing 23j with
|42j.  To the point of changing Python's previous behavior, no less:-(.

I think this change is the worst wart that has been added to Python
since I've been using it (about 4 years).

I think--as Alex does--that the "print >> FILE" form was a mistake.  But
it is just ugly syntax, and I've even found myself using it
occassionally.

Likewise, I think that the syntax whereby you create a generator by
using the 'yield' statment somewhere deeply buried inside a function is
a bad choice.  I would much rather see that feature right in the
function declaration, perhaps by using the word "gen" or the like in
place of "def".

Actually, it would not break anything (much) to add the pseudo-keyword
'gen' as an alternative word.  In this case, presumably, using the 'gen'
keyword would -require- you to also put a 'yield' inside the body (or
raise an exception).  This would not break existing code, but would
provide a path to improving future code by encouraging explicit 'gen'
declarations.

But those warts are only matters of syntax.  I might have spelled those
things differently, but there is no deep semantic issue.  The
"incommensurability of complex numbers" is a much worse semantic
problem.  I used to be able to sort lists, now I cannot.  Or at least
without first checking all the contents of the lists before I try to
sort (or maybe catching errors and recovering somehow).  It's ugly.

In my book, I suggest a bit of a workaround for readers.  It's not
wholly fleshed out, but it points in a possible direction.  Take a look
at:

    http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/chap1.txt

Jump to the discussion of:

    BUILTIN -- complex : New-style base class for complex numbers

I would welcome better or more complete solutions, of course.

Yours, David...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/




From theller at python.net  Fri Nov 15 02:33:54 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 08:33:54 +0100
Subject: Supporting older Python versions in py2exe?
References: <isyzubx2.fsf@python.net> <slrnat8ll3.13p.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <3DD48D9E.245E5891@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <heejs2vx.fsf@python.net>

Thanks for all the comments, Kevin, Gerhard, Peter.

So I will release a last version compatible with all the older stuff
which supports early COM binding (this is already in CVS), and then
move on to 'officially' only support Python 2.2 (or 2.1?) and later.

Thomas
Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:


From ark at research.att.com  Tue Nov 12 13:52:41 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:52:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
In-Reply-To: <20021112164933.A29726@ibook.distro.conectiva> (message from
	Gustavo Niemeyer on Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:49:33 -0200)
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <20021112164933.A29726@ibook.distro.conectiva>
Message-ID: <200211121852.gACIqfU24763@europa.research.att.com>

>> >>> x = (1, 2, 3)

>> >>> x += (4, 5, 6)

Gustavo> Hey, shouldn't this raise an exception?

Perhaps it should, but it doesn't:  If x is a tuple,

	x += y

is equivalent to

	x = x + y

which creates a brand-new object and (re)binds x to it.

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark



From nbatada1 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 24 21:41:01 2002
From: nbatada1 at yahoo.com (Nizar Batada)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 18:41:01 -0800
Subject: index of items in a List in sorted order
Message-ID: <75e086cd.0211241841.72e35ecf@posting.google.com>

I am posting a code to get index of sorted list for 
future reference.
if you can make this code faster, i'll appreciate your input
nizar
########################################################3
#!/usr/bin/python

def ind_of_sorted(L):
        ''' return index of items in sorted order '''
	k = len(L)
	d = {}
	# take care of repeated values
	[ d.setdefault(L[i],[]).append(i) for i in range(k)]
	auxL = d.keys()
	auxL.sort()
	inds = []
	[inds.extend( d[x] ) for x in auxL]
	return auxL,inds

if __name__ == '__main__':
	L=['r','g','a','f','r','j']
	Lsort,Lsort_I=ind_of_sorted(L)
	print L
	print Lsort
	print Lsort_I


From rhymes at myself.com  Mon Nov 11 12:56:42 2002
From: rhymes at myself.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:56:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python 2.2.2 doc in CHM format
Message-ID: <e166efbf17d822e31e6c48550ee42d22.61156@mygate.mailgate.org>

I've changed the hosting site, please update your links
http://digilander.iol.it/rhymes/html-help-222.zip

--
Lawrence Oluyede


-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG


From greenbeard400 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 21 23:37:54 2002
From: greenbeard400 at yahoo.com (greenbeard)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 04:37:54 GMT
Subject: SMTP Relaying
References: <3DDC02A5.2090003@yahoo.com> <mailman.1037852549.30373.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <CwiD9.75869$%m4.36039@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

Chris Gonnerman wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "greenbeard" <greenbeard at yahoo.com>
> 
> 
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I am having trouble getting some mail through to certain addresses.  I 
>>get an SMTPRecipientsRefused {to_address, 550 '5.7.1 
>><to_address>...relaying denied.
>>
>>So I am pretty sure that it is due to the target address blocking the 
>>relay - my machine -> my SMTP on another machine -> corporate SMTP - as 
>>most non-corporate address have no problem receiving.  So think I am 
>>hitting the RFC2505 wall here but I cant quite seem to figure out what 
>>fields or combination of values to load to let the mail arrive ok.
>>
>>All advice appreciated.
> 
> 
> I hope you aren't SPAMMING 'cause then we have to 
> send the DOGS after you...
> 
> SERIOUSLY, if the to_address isn't on the server 
> you are connecting to, and they aren't enabled
> to relay to that domain, then nothing you can do
> will change that.
> 
> One of the following:
> 
> -- You are connecting to the target mailserver
> directly:  you must have screwed up the to_address.
> 
> -- You are using your ISP's relay:  It's mis-
> configured?  Dunno.  Maybe they don't like your
> face  :-)
> 
> -- You are using a third party relay without 
> permission:  SPAMMER, GET THEE BEHIND ME!
> 
> I really hope it's the first.
> 
> Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
> http://newcenturycomputers.net
> 
> 

No spamming here!   I have a program sends me files on a timer from my 
remote machine at home to where I work.    (Good for surfing at work - 
although no images) Now the place I am at during the day uses the 
Message Labs Virus Scanning Service so the email is definately being 
forwarded.  Anyway.  I have no problem sending to other servers it is 
only the @work one.   My guess is that it checks the headers and sees 
that it originated from my local machine, routed through my webserver , 
and assumes that it is spam and therefore blocks it.

Guess I will have to keep smackin' the code.

gb




From engsol at teleport.com  Fri Nov  8 22:48:35 2002
From: engsol at teleport.com (engsol at teleport.com)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:48:35 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
Message-ID: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net>

I've read the books, tried some code, and I still just don't get it.

If some kind soul can explain the (high level) process, I can figure out the details, I
think.

What I want to do is call (or invoke) a C exe  from Python, and return the results to
Python. Or pass values of some sort to the C exe, and again have Python trap the returned
results. I'm a long way from the concept of shared variables. <grin>

The first stumbling block is that the books offer examples of C code which don't seem to
have a main(). My compilers don't care for that too much. I took a quick look at SWIG, but
to be honest, I didn't understand how to use it. Again, I need the high level concept.

The second problem is the concept of translating PyObjects to C and vice versa. As I say,
I just don't get it yet.

The third problem is that the books spend one paragraph on the Python/C code, usually for
Linux, then three pages on reference counts. Do I really have to worry about them, or not?

I'm using Python 222 on NT. If I understood how to do  "Hello world" (in C, called from
Python), I might be able to go from there.

In case you're interested, the reason I need to learn this is that my company is in dire
need of a new software test tool. I'm convinced that Python is the right scripting
language for the testers, and will be best in terms of maintainabilty and enhancement, no
matter if the platform is NT/2000/Linux. We have a huge library of legacy C code which we
can re-use as is, assuming I can learn to marry Python and C.

 BTW, I'm a diehard Python convert! (But my family doesn't know yet, so keep it under your
hat please)

Thanks.....Norm


From michel.l.combe at free.fr  Sat Nov 23 10:46:18 2002
From: michel.l.combe at free.fr (Michel COMBE)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:46:18 +0100
Subject: Newbie : desperately need help on "import MySQLdb"
Message-ID: <3ddfa321$0$18230$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

I'm trying to use MySQLdb in a python program.
System is Linux Mandrake 8.2,
Python is installed from rpm in /usr/bin
MySQLdb is installed from rpm in /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages
MySQL version 2.23.53a is installed in /var/lib

If I type import "MySQLdb", I receive the message
File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/__init__.py" line 27
ImportError: No module named _mysql

I spent more than 2 days on this. Can someone please help before I give up ?

Thanks
Michel Combe






From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 26 11:10:17 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 16:10:17 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list at python.org>, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

> Anyway, to each it's own.  But I do concurr with those who
> say that with the acquisition of list comprehensions, map(),
> reduce(), filter(), lambda() et-al, should be on the road
> to deprecation and eventual elimination, being the black
> un-pythonic sheep of the family.

I see how you use list comprehensions to replace map and
filter, but I don't understand why list comprehensions are
touted as a replacement for reduce and lambda.  I use lamba
almost exclusively to generate anonymous functions that are
passed to GUI widgets.  How does a list comprehension solve
that problem?

In the case of reduce:

  sum = reduce(operator.add, valueList)

How is that expressed any better with a list comprension?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm also against
                                  at               BODY-SURFING!!
                               visi.com            


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Nov 13 19:47:23 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 19:47:23 -0500
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
In-Reply-To: <6435449.1037227105210.JavaMail.camhorn@mac.com>
References: <6435449.1037227105210.JavaMail.camhorn@mac.com>
Message-ID: <oqadkd3rl0.fsf@carouge.sram.qc.ca>

[Cameron Horn]

> >def foo(): return iter(tuple())

> Which is the obvious, clear and consistent way to create a generator that
> doesn't do anything.

I was to suggest:

   def foo(): return iter([])

but using a tuple is probably tinily faster.  No need to call tuple(),
however, just write an empty tuple constant:

   def foo(): return iter(())

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Nov 25 19:54:49 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:54:49 -0600
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
In-Reply-To: <1038264655.1697.137.camel@software1.logiplex.internal> (Cliff
 Wells's message of "25 Nov 2002 14:50:56 -0800")
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>
	<slrnau5ahl.q7v.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
	<1038264655.1697.137.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
Message-ID: <m2wun12lra.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Cliff" == Cliff Wells <LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net> writes:

    Cliff> Perhaps the Ruebot should be considered for honorary
    Cliff> "Village Idiot" status on c.l.py.  The subject line on all
    Cliff> of his posts could be prefixed with "[Comedy Relief]" to
    Cliff> help avoid misunderstandings.

At least he's in good company.  I only knew of 3:

  bots = ['effbot', 'martellibot', 'timbot']
  bots.append('ruebot')

I hope he feels honored.

John Hunter



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Mon Nov 25 10:40:49 2002
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:40:49 -0000
Subject: Eric 3.0.0-alpha2 released
References: <bvtqra-lfh.ln@majestix.gallien.de>
Message-ID: <artga2$1faa@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Detlev Offenbach" <detlev at die-offenbachs.de> wrote in message
news:bvtqra-lfh.ln at majestix.gallien.de...

> Eric 3.0.0 (or short eric3) is a Python IDE written using PyQt and QScintilla.

So it's a replacement for IDLE then ;)




From senux at senux.com  Sat Nov 23 00:36:33 2002
From: senux at senux.com (Brian Lee)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:36:33 +0900
Subject: ARP request/reply by Python?
Message-ID: <20021123053633.GA22332@mercury.senux.com>

Can I read and write ARP packets by Python? I found that 
type number for IP datagram is 0x0800 and 0x0806 for ARP request/reply
in ethernet frame header. How can I set type number(0x0806) to ethernet
frame header in Python socket? Any site link on this?

-- 
Brian Lee - http://www.senux.com/en/



From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 17:50:01 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:50:01 GMT
Subject: Database Programming
References: <3875fcac.0211260752.60e2e457@posting.google.com> <3de3ac09$0$9474$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <f57664b9.0211271121.5342669@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnauaj89.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Jonathan P. <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Note that the more than half of the Python dev't time involved
> the creation, from scratch, of some fairly sophisticated 
> curses-based text widgets (now I know why they call it curses) 

Any chance of sharing these widgets, or was your code closed-source?

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From berkowit at silcom.com  Fri Nov 29 16:28:29 2002
From: berkowit at silcom.com (Paul Berkowitz)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:28:29 -0800
Subject: Can't find user module despite setting PYTHONPATH
References: <BA0D042F.27479%berkowit@silcom.com> <BA0D0E7D.2749B%berkowit@silcom.com> <BA0D1211.274A2%berkowit@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <BA0D1BFD.274AD%berkowit@silcom.com>

On 11/29/02 12:46 PM, in article BA0D1211.274A2%berkowit at silcom.com, "Paul
Berkowitz" <berkowit at silcom.com> wrote:

>>>>> import module1
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> ImportError: No module named module1
>> 
>> 
>> But it's there, in my ~/Library/Scripts/Python/  directory. There must be
>> something wrong with my PYTHONPATH?
>> 
>> setenv PYTHONPATH
>> .:/usr/lib/python2.2/:/Users/berkowit/Library/Scripts/Python/:/usr/lib/pytho
>> n2.2/plat-darwin/ # all one line
>> 
>> What?
> 
> Yes. If I cd to '/Users/berkowit/Library/Scripts/', then I can import the
> module without problem. But otherwise PYTHONPATH  doesn't seem to find that
> directory. Does anyone know why not? (Mac OS 10.2.2, using tcsh in Terminal
> to set PYTHONPATH).

I came upon the other way to do this, within the Python interactive
interpreter:


>>> import sys
>>> sys.path.append('/Users/berkowit/Library/Scripts/Python')
>>> import module1
Hello module world!



and that works within a particular session, but is not retained. When I quit
Python and restart the interactive interpreter, I'm back where I started,
and might as well just cd to this directory. When I

    >>> print sys.path

it doesn't include the new directory I've added to PYTHONPATH. Ever.

Is there anyone here with Mac OS 10.2? Do you know how to get Python to
recognize PYTHONPATH, as the shell does. Or else what is the right way to
modify sys.path to it is retained between sessions?
-- 
Paul Berkowitz



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 22 13:06:04 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:06:04 -0500
Subject: [OT] Reciprocal function?
References: <aril5k$e07$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <k9ydnYocmIDF8kOgXTWc3Q@comcast.com>

"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote in message
news:aril5k$e07$1 at news.hccnet.nl...
> def rowinc(x,base):
>     i,j = 0,1
>     while i <= x:
>         j = j * base
>         i = i + j
>     return j

Odd and misleading name.  Somewhat odd function.  For x < 0 (which
your problem specification may exclude), rowinc==1.  Otherwise, it
return the largest power of base, base**n, such that sum(k=1..n-1;
base**k)  <= x.  For x>=0, this is at least base**1.

When base=2 and hence base-1==1, this is the largest power of 2 in
x+2.  Which is to say, n is the index of the high order 1-bit in the
binary expression of x+2.  This could be done more simply with shifts,
but this does not generalize very well to other bases.

> def concat(a,b,base):
>     f = rowinc(b,base)
>     return f*(a+1)+b

This multiply-add (which characterization is the key to your problem)
has nothing obvious to do with concat-enation.  You implicitly assume
below that a and b are counts (non-negative ints).  It would be less
confusing if you did not add 1 to a, so a is the actual multiplier
rather than 1 less, and instead required input to be positive rather
than just non-negative.

> And, for the moment, lets assume "base" is fixed to the value 2.
>
> Then concat(9,5,2) will return 45.
> But concat(3,13,2) will also return 45.
>
> In fact if the number that concat returns is known, and the "base"
> argument is also known, the function below can be used to calculate
> how many other tuples (a,b) will have the same result:
>
> def seqlen(x,base):
>     i,j,k = 0,1,0
>     while i <= x:
>         j = j * base
>         i = i + j
>         k = k + 1
>     return k

This version of rowinc returns n instead of base**n.

> So seqlen(45,2) returns 5. The number of possible tuples (a,b) that
> make concat(a,b,2) return 45 is seqlen(45,2)-1 which is 4.

Only because you exclude concat(-1,45,2) = 45.

> For (a,b) in [(0, 29), (3, 13), (9, 5), (21, 1)], concat(a,b,2)
> returns 45 and there are no other tuples (a,b) that return 45 for
> concat(a,b,2).

Only with the unstated condition.

>
> Now I need a function that looks a bit like this:
>
> def splitat(i,a,base):
> """
> returns the i'th tuple (x,y) out of the set of possible
> tuples that make concat(x,y,base) return a
> """
>     return x,y
>
> Any pointers appreciated.

Overloading a as both a param of concat and its result is poor.  I
will call the result cc instead.  Defining i'th tuple depends on the
ordering.   Sorting on b instead of a makes problem slightly easier.
In any case, the 'inverse' of multiply-add is divmod(), possibly
adjusted.  Because of the rowinc condition linking b, base, and power
of base, there is (definitely for base 2 and perhaps for others - not
sure) one possible value of a,b for each possible value of rowinc,
each of which is a positive power of base.  So generate the list of
tuples by looping thru powers of base.  Example for cc=45 and base=2
to generate pairs (a+1,b) (I'll let you do subtraction of 1 from a+1):

divmod(45,2) = (22,1) #OK since rowinc(1,2)=2
divmod(45,4) = (10,5) # OK since rowinc(5,2) = 4
divmode(45,8) = (5,5) # not OK
# adjust a down and b up to maintain product-sum of 45
  adjust to 4,13(=5+8) # OK since rowinc(13,2)=8
divmod(45,16) = (2,13) # not OK
  adjust to 1,29(=13+16) #OK since rowinc(29,2)=16
divmod(45,32) = (1,13) # not OK
  adjust to 0.45 #stop because a+1<1 not allowed
return list of 4 tuples

With other bases, you might have to adjust more than once.  If doing a
lot of calculations with one base, it would be worthwhile to calculate
a vector of rowinc results.

Terry J. Reedy




From francois.lepoutre at seriatim.com  Fri Nov 15 04:01:32 2002
From: francois.lepoutre at seriatim.com (François Lepoutrre)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:01:32 +0100
Subject: some sort of threadsafe locale support
Message-ID: <ar2d8b$ali$1@nntp-m01.news.aol.com>

We have a modpython delivering fully dynamic content
over the wire that uses "locale.format" to deliver fully
formatted numerics.

The application is now supposed to go "intl" and
deliver numeric amounts formatted according to
the user locale. That looked pretty simple...

We change locale ("locale.setlocale()") on the fly
and got comic results as french people would,
at times, receive  us-formatted amounts
and vice-versa...

As clearly stated in python documentation,
locale services are not threadsafe and
possibly costly. Definitely not a good idea.

Any threadsafe alternative to format numeric output
is welcome :) Of course we could do it the
dummy way writing our own formatting stuff.

Any clever alternative to "wheel-reinventing"
for this simple but irritating issue?

Francois





From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Nov 25 08:50:01 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 14:50:01 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arrijv$kap$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <1038199757.350382@yasure>
Message-ID: <tyf4ra5zrli.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> writes:

> |> Perhaps I could be, if message passing were clearer to me!
> |
> | Message passing means that there are several entities that
> | communicate by sending messages between them. The main points are
> | that these entities are autonomous and that there is no central
> | "main" program that controls the behavior of these entitities.
> 
> But what would a message be, precisely?

[...]

> What are the semantics of passing, for the sender and the recipient?

[...]

> Can Python programs be written this way ?

Yes ...

class foo:
    def bar(self):
        print 'This is an object of type "foo" responding to the message "bar"'

class zot:
    def bar(self):
        print 'This is an object of type "zot" responding to the message "bar"'


f = foo()
z = zot()

# Pass message "bar" to the object f.
f.bar()

# Pass message "bar" to the object z.
z.bar()

> How is it different from calling a subroutine? 

When you call a subroutine, you are calling a specific piece of
code. The caller decides what will be executed. When you pass a
message, the decision as to which exact code should be executed is
made elsewhere (some form of dispatch).

But it looks as if my understanding of message passing is different
from Pascal's.


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov  1 03:57:35 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:57:35 GMT
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg>
Message-ID: <3mrw9.71925$TD1.3188780@news2.tin.it>

hope wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> If i am to develop a full fledge commercial application using Python :
> 
> a. Can i compile my python source into binary ? I have read about py2exe
> for windows. Is there one for Linux ?

Yes, you can use McMillan's "installer" for both Windows and Linux, see:
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html


> b. Can I distribute the bytecode only (.pyo, .pyd) and not the source

Yes, except that .pyd is not an extension used for bytecode but rather
for dynamically lodaed libraries used as Python extensions on Windows
(you may be thinking of .pyc, which IS the extension used for bytecode
that is not optimized, while .pyo indicates bytecode that IS optimized).

> (.py) ? Can the bytecode be 'de-compiled' to source ?

Of course!  It's even easier than "dis-assembling" machine code back
into readable symbolic assembly languages, which is something that
'crackers' do for fun -- visit any 'warez' site to see how abundant
are the `cracks` available for all sorts of machine-coded commercial
programs.

Module dis in the Python standard library lets you disassemble
bytecode back to readable form.  Recovering actual Python sources
is harder (just as it is if, say, you code in C, to recover actual
C sources rather than disassembled machine code) -- have a look
at decompyle, which you can find with Google, but it's not in
"production" state nor, I think usable with the latest releases
of Python.

> Please advice.

It is conceptually impossible to stop a halfway-competent 'cracker'
from disassembling any compiled form of your program if they have
any interest at all in it (or even if they don't: they DO do it just
for fun even for programs they have no earthly use for), as long as
you distribute your program in a fully executable form for general
purpose computers.  If the GP computer can get at your program, as
it must to be able to execute it, so can the cracker.  In some cases
you may be able to achieve a measure of protection if your program
can only execute when connected to some Internet site: in that kind
of scenario, you may be able to check that connections only come
from validly registered sites.  But in general, you should rely on
the law to protect your programs against unauthorized use, not on
illusory "protection".  "Security through obscurity isn't".


Alex



From maney at pobox.com  Mon Nov 25 15:28:55 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:28:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <LqrE9.85236$iw.52368@FE06>
Message-ID: <aru166$cbe$3@wheel2.two14.net>

Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Interesting that none of the responders referenced a FAQ article ... though
> since it refers to 2.0 as a future release it's clearly in some need of
> updating!

I'll plead that I probably read that back when I was in the process of
deciding whether to jump into Python or PHP but have since forgotten
it, obviously.  I was ultimately swayed by the reputation PHP had as
the cool web scripting language, and while I wouldn't say that I wasted
the year or so I was working with it (mostly on stolen time,
concurrently learning more than pidgin SQL and HTML and so forth), I'm
happy that I came back to Python.  It's a much better match for the
sort of web apps I'm working on.

Anyway, that FAQ item: I'm not sure I agree with this bit.

  An interesting phenomenon is that most experienced Python programmers
  recognize the "while 1" idiom and don't seem to be missing the
  assignment in expression construct much; it's only the newcomers who
  express a strong desire to add this to the language.

I am a relative newcomer to Python, but my problem is not that I fail
to *recognize* the various work-arounds such as the 'while 1' idiom
that's specifically being discussed.  Having implemented a service
tracking and management system in a dialect of Basic that lacked all
but the crudest of facilities (well, in the flow control department), I
know all about such workarounds, and recognize them; what I lack with
respect to the most experienced Pythoneers (in this regard) seems to be
only a *liking* for such workarounds.

As long as I'm talking about that FAQ item, I think it praises the
other kluge presented at the very bottom with insufficently strong
damns.  Was it Dijkstra who said that when you've said the same thing
twice [in a program] then you have very likely contradicted yourself? 
IME with C, that has been a larger source of errors than has operator=.



From imbosol at vt.edu  Sun Nov 10 22:09:21 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:09:21 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqn83g$gou$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Brad Hards wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:53, Carl Banks wrote:
>> Oleg wrote:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
>> > between Python and Common Lisp (
>> > http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
>> > wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
>>
>> As cool as Lisp is, it is too low-level, too hard to learn, too
>> weird-looking, and way too different from C (at all levels) to gain
>> much popularity.
> I don't think that this is it. 
> 
> If "low-level", "hard to learn" and "too weird looking" were real problems, 
> then C wouldn't be popular.

Well, I apparently misused the word "low-level."  I referred to being
close to the inner working of the compiler, as opposed to the most
common use of low-level, close to the operating system.


And if C is weird looking, what is Lisp?


-- 
CARL BANKS


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Nov 21 01:35:45 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:35:45 -0500
Subject: "properties" idiom
References: <E18EkjF-0005to-00@avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DDC7EC1.7080406@rogers.com>

Yes, there is such an API, but it really only becomes full-fledged with 
Python 2.2.2 (where it is called the "descriptors" API).  You can read 
all about it in Guido's Python 2.2.x introduction.

http://www.python.org/2.2.2/descrintro.html

You can use the standard self.x stuff until you need properties, then 
switch to properties when you need them.  My own basicproperty project 
extends the concept somewhat, but it doesn't sound like you need that.

Enjoy,
Mike

Terry Hancock wrote:

>I could swear I saw a conversation about this on list, but I'm having
>trouble finding anything relevant.
>
>Let's say I have a class that exposes an attribute  x as part of it's public
>API:
>
>class spam:
>    def __init__(self, x):
>        self.x = x
>
>Due to later development, however, it's clear (hypothetically)
>that setting or getting the value of x, requires a method call
>(to update a database, for example).
>
>Is there a standard idiom for calling that method when an outside
>caller does something like:
>
>spaminstance.x = 42
>
>or
>
>y = spaminstance.x
>
>(i.e. when we see this, my class actually calls an internal method,
>spaminstance.__set_x(42)).  If so, I'd have the same flexibility as if I
>had used get_x()/set_x() accessor methods, but my code would
>be simpler for the most common case.  Can you do this with Python
>today?  I was thinking there might be a way using __getattr__ and
>__setattr__, but it initially looks very complex -- is there a preferred
>way to do it?
>
>I'm defining an interface now, and I'm wondering whether I should
>go with attributes or accessor-methods.  I've been using accessor
>methods, but it bloats the interface quite a bit, and I'm wondering if I
>can make the interface simpler this way.
>
>Terry
>
>--
>Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
>Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com
>
>  
>

-- 
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From benc1 at today.com.au  Fri Nov  1 01:26:12 2002
From: benc1 at today.com.au (Ben C)
Date: 31 Oct 2002 22:26:12 -0800
Subject: Wrapping a .dll under windows with SWIG
Message-ID: <8beb91f5.0210312226.7eb08c08@posting.google.com>

Hi there,

I want to wrap a .dll under windows and have access to it's functions
etc. The problem is that all I have is the .dll and header file ... no
source ... and as all the examples that I have seen for swig seem to
need the original source ... I was wondering if it is still possible
to get access to the functions stored in the dll? Would anyone be able
to point me in the write direction, docs examples etc if this can be
done at all?

thanks in advance

Ben C


From wilk-spamout at flibuste.net  Wed Nov 13 07:49:51 2002
From: wilk-spamout at flibuste.net (William)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 13:49:51 +0100
Subject: perl2python
Message-ID: <87y97xmy6o.fsf@flibuste.net>

hi,

I want to convert a little perl script to python, is there a tools for
that ? or a little doc to learn the minimum of perl for python users ?

This script is to convert XpressTag to HTML... maybe somebody else is
interested ?

bye
 
-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov  7 03:56:54 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:56:54 GMT
Subject: [Jython] Pass variable or class reference to PythonInterpreter?
References: <udly9.44909$Lg2.12278128@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <qVpy9.1040$XO.51258@news2.tin.it>

Robert Oschler wrote:

> I know I can compile a Jython class and then have it accessible as a true
> Java class to other java code. But I'm wondering if I can pass a variable
> or
> class reference to an instance of PythonInterpreter?  For example:
> 
>     private void CallInterpreter()
>     {
>         String theString = "Hello";
> 
>         PythonInterpreter interp = new PythonInterpreter();
> 
>         // Here I enter a loop receiving python commands and passing them
>         to
> "interp.exec()"
>         // So how could I give "interp" access to "theString" so commands
> passed to "exec()"
>         //  can see it, print it, change it, etc?
>     }
> 
> Is there a way to do this?
> 
> thx

Sure, Jython's PythonInterpreter class gives you methods you
can use for this purpose.  interp.set("theString", theString)
for example would add an attribute named "theString" to the
inteprreter's local namespace, with its value set to the Java
value theString.  *CHANGING* it is obviously out of the question
(strings are immutable in Java *AND* in Python), but THAT
is clearly a completely different issue.


Alex



From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Nov 18 04:04:43 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 01:04:43 -0800
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
In-Reply-To: <ar9oqi$oil$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <001f01c28ee1$88e88200$21795418@dell1700>

Bengt wrote:
> IOW, IMO there ought to be a way to do a temporary
global-side-effect-free
> import and delete all traces of its having been done -- without
restarting
> the interpreter or invoking a second interpreter instance.

Does that involve unloading a dynamically imported library? If so, you
will have to figure out how to do that in a cross-platform manner and
without breaking existing Python extensions.

Here are some other issues:
1. What happens if two "throwaway" imports of the same module happen at
   once?
2. What happens if the extension module modifies global state?
3. What happens if the extension module causes external entities to 
   hold references to its objects?

Cheers,
Brian




From nospam at nospam.com  Mon Nov 18 19:53:26 2002
From: nospam at nospam.com (C42)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:53:26 -0500
Subject: Access to Python/SQL
Message-ID: <24vitu0d93ksc5biv4re3gr3d1ocntpqli@4ax.com>

I currently have several Microsoft Access databases.

My long term goal is to move the data to an SQL server and create
web-based front-ends using Python to access them.

Does anyone have any recommendations? 

Is there a framework and/or web app server that would make this easy?

Thanks for your help!



From anton.wilson at camotion.com  Tue Nov  5 16:39:44 2002
From: anton.wilson at camotion.com (anton wilson)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:39:44 -0500
Subject: power TypeErrors
In-Reply-To: <200211060810.28875.bhards@bigpond.net.au>
References: <200211052054.PAA05238@nealtech.net> <200211060810.28875.bhards@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <200211052132.QAA07582@nealtech.net>

On Tuesday 05 November 2002 04:10 pm, Brad Hards wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:02, anton wilson wrote:
> > I'm trying to understand the possible type errors for **
> >
> > The language reference states that
> >
> >
> > The power operator has the same semantics as the built-in pow() function,
> > when called with two arguments: it yields its left argument raised to the
> > power of its right argument. The numeric arguments are first converted to
> > a common type. The result type is that of the arguments after coercion;
> > if the result is not expressible in that type (as in raising an integer
> > to a negative power, or a negative floating point number to a broken
> > power), a TypeError exception is raised.
>
> Looks like the docs are outdated. I'm not sure about the "broken power"
> bit.
>


It actually causes an error from a source file, only if i use a variable 
argument to **.

so this fails:

x = -1
x ** 0.5 

but 

-1 ** -0.5 doesn't. 


> [bradh at localhost USB-guide-head]$ python
> Python 1.5.2 (#1, Jul  5 2001, 03:02:19)  [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux
> 7.1 2 on linux-i386
> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>
> >>> 1**-2
>
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ValueError: integer to the negative power
>
> >>> -1.2**0.5
>
> -1.09544511501
>
> bradh at squirt python $ python
> Python 2.2.1 (#1, Oct  4 2002, 09:50:49)
> [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>
> >>> 1**-2
>
> 1.0
>
> >>> -1.2 ** 0.5
>
> -1.0954451150103321
>
> Brad



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov 23 01:12:11 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:12:11 -0800
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org> <3DDB3373.2578CEC0@alcyone.com> <8ef9bea6.0211201119.2f846d0c@posting.google.com> <JxqdnQqI-cZFnEGgXTWcqA@comcast.com> <8ef9bea6.0211220601.4c92d43e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DDF1C3B.46BE47BC@alcyone.com>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:

> It is OK to fantasize the easiness that beginners can understand how
> Python work. But it is also good to keep a reality check. People have
> faces and names. That's why I selected an example from a start. Please
> look over Mr. Erik Max Francis' comments again (and trace to the
> original thread.) And tell me why he made the comments he made. (Of
> course I am not saying he is right, in fact, anyone who knows Python
> well won't agree with his comments. I am simply keeping a reality
> check.)

The only thing I can conclude from this comment is that you didn't
understand the point I was making.  Maybe you should try tracing back
the original thread yourself.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The little I know, I owe to my ignorance.
\__/ Sacha Guitry
    Bosskey.net: Counter-Strike / http://www.bosskey.net/cs/
 A personal guide to Counter-Strike.


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Tue Nov 12 00:31:46 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:31:46 +1300
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjku8$njc$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3DCE003C.9080505@mindspring.com> <aqlntp$66p$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <gknmqa.hc4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqn83f$gou$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <7h3lm402zq5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DD09242.9010103@something.invalid>

Michael Hudson wrote:

> I think the d in cdr stands (stood) for decrement, not data.  But the
> web seems confused on the issue.  It just means "second half of cons
> cell" to me...


I gather there were also two 3-bit fields interspringled
with those, and Lisp originally had functions for accessing
those, too...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Fri Nov  8 08:48:19 2002
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 08:48:19 -0500
Subject: Approach to Python extension with C++
References: <3dcb261e$0$15742@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <ud6pg18bg.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

"Nicholas Yue" <nicholas.y at NOSPAM.immersivetechnologies.com> writes:

> I have a need to write Python interfaces to some commercial libraries that
> are available on Windows and Linux.
>
> I have read about the steps to do that in Mark Hammond's Python Programming
> book and have also read the extending Python in the Python Essential
> Reference (first version).
>
> I am attempting to write the interface in a cross platform manner, is the
> use of Setup.in and compile.py the way to go.
>
> I am using ActiveState Python 2.2.2 on Windows and probably 2.0/2.1/2.2 on
> Linux.
> I am writing the interface code in C++.
>
> What is your advice?

Try Boost.Python: http://www.boost.org/libs/python

-- 
                       David Abrahams
   dave at boost-consulting.com * http://www.boost-consulting.com
Boost support, enhancements, training, and commercial distribution


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Nov 13 19:57:43 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:57:43 -0600
Subject: geometry problem with Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <aquppv$28g2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
References: <aquppv$28g2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20021113185742.A3241@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 04:11:32PM -0800, Russell E. Owen wrote:
> I've run into a problem displaying a fairly simple geometry;
> it displays, but goes into an infinite loop trying to grid everything
> (on my display the scroll bar shimmies back and forth a bit and the CPU 
> usage is high). Dragging the window to a new size stops it.

No lockup here.
Python 2.3a0 (#1, Jul 13 2002, 09:27:09) 
>>> root.tk.call("package", "require", "Tk")
'8.3'

Jeff



From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Thu Nov 21 06:07:41 2002
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 11:07:41 GMT
Subject: py2exe/numpy/com-server problem
References: <aribiq$rjqqb$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <r8dfurci.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <ariept$rgg98$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:
> Uwe Schmitt <uwe.schmitt at procoders.net> writes:

>> Hi,
>> 
>> I implemented a COM-Server for a class using NumericalPython (numarray).
>> 
>> If I install the server by 'python server.py --register' everything is fine.
>> If I use py2exe or the McMillan installer and call the generated .exe
>> in order to (un-)register the COM server, the program crashes.
>> 
>> I use Win2K, Python 2.2 (from Activestate, including win32com), 
>> and numarray 0.36.
>> 
>> Is this a known bug ? google did not help me.

> Maybe a missing numeric dll? Neither py2exe nor installer get them
> all, I think.  If I remember correctly, multiarray.pyd dynloads
> _numpy.pyd (in C code), or something like that.

> You should try copying all the Numeric dlls (pyds).  Does this help?

Thanks for your answer. I tried it, but the program still crashes.

Greetings, Uwe.


-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt      Computer science is no more about Computers,
uwe.schmitt at num.uni-sb.de      than astronomy is about telescopes. (Dijkstra)
http://www.procoders.net           


From bjornkn at online.no  Sat Nov 23 04:36:25 2002
From: bjornkn at online.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn_K_Nilssen?=)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:36:25 +0100
Subject: Confusing list& Test
Message-ID: <3DDF5A29.4932.48CE780@localhost>

This is just a test to see if I've come to the right place.
This list is quite confusing. I first found it on yahoogroups, where I 
subscribed. Unfortunately I could only get the diget from there (I hate 
digests..).
When I started rceiving those digests I noticed that the Reply-To field was to 
python-list at cwi.nl, but checking around there, sending mail to python-list-
request at cwi.nl with 'help' in the body.
After a little web search I found yet anotherr python-list at python.org, which 
seems to be the same list, and another hit (from 99) said that the cwi.nl list 
had been moved to python.org. 
Isn't it about time to get the Reply-To field changed to the correct address?
What exactly is that yahoogroups list doing in all this? 

-- 
Bjorn K. Nilssen // http://bjornkn.home.online.no/ old 3D stuff//
Jegergata 6          
N-4616 Kristiansand
NORWAY             




From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Nov 12 17:31:14 2002
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:31:14 -0500
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
 <aqrka3$1emk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <yEY09ks/KL6C089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <aqrka3$1emk$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>,
"Russell E. Owen" <owen at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> [ ... ]
>If you are collecting pitfalls, here's my least favorite: "never use a
>mutable object as a default value". A classic example:
>
>def badfunc(alist=[]):
>   ...
>
>The default value of alist will not stay [] (an empty list) but instead
>is affected by whatever you pass in for "alist". Very tricky and
>unpleasant.

I'm not finding that.  Am I misunderstanding something?  See below ..

        Regards.        Mel.



Python 2.1.3 (#35, Apr  8 2002, 17:47:50) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def f2(dflt=[]):
...     return dflt
...
>>> f2()
[]
>>> f2(3)
3
>>> f2()
[]
>>> f2([1,2])
[1, 2]
>>> f2()
[]
>>>


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 18 18:31:15 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:31:15 -0800
Subject: python lists?
References: <arbqs1$npd$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3DD97843.5634EFB3@alcyone.com>

Dan Stromberg wrote:

> So are python lists real lists in the algorithmic sense, or something
> more?

They're implemented as vectors.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Who's not sat tense before his own heart's curtain?
\__/ Rainer Maria Rilke
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From robloche at fr.st  Wed Nov 20 18:52:44 2002
From: robloche at fr.st (Rodolphe)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 23:52:44 GMT
Subject: string encoding problem
References: <Xns92CCEFC7BE7BBroblochefrst@213.228.0.32> <m33cpv6e6u.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns92CD8F1E96AEroblochefrst@213.228.0.32>

>> Could someone help me out with this simple problem ?
> 
> Tk is returning a Unicode object to you. If you want to write that
> Unicode object to a byte stream, you need to encode it, e.g. with
> 
>   print str.encode("cp1252")
> 
> Regards,
> Martin

Thanks.
Someone pointed me this useful link :

http://www.reportlab.com/i18n/python_unicode_tutorial.html


I found out the answer to my problem there.

Now, when Tk returns a string, say s, I use s.encode('latin-1') to take 
care of the accents.

Thanks to all of you !

--
Rodolphe


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Sat Nov 23 03:26:57 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:26:57 GMT
Subject: Newbie Q on searching lists
References: <3DDF1673.4020203@nyc.rr.com> <mailman.1038036812.7653.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDF3C32.4060205@nyc.rr.com>


Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> On Friday 22 November 2002 21:45, Kenny Tilton wrote:
> 
>>I see the index method on lists throws an error if the element sought is
>>not found. I was hoping it would return None.
>>
>>The semantics I am coding happen to throw an error if a certain element
>>is found in a list, so i want to code:
>>
>>    if calculators.index[thisCalculator]:
>>       raise CircularDependency, thisCalculator
>>
>>1. Am I missing something?
>>
> 
> 
> if calculators.count(thisCalculator): # returns zero if not found
>    raise CircularDependency, thisCalculator

oops :)  thx!

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From janto_d at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 17 07:58:51 2002
From: janto_d at hotmail.com (Janto Dreijer)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 04:58:51 -0800
Subject: popkey() method for dictionaries?
References: <ar7i50$3ib$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <f9068f8e.0211170458.541bfeba@posting.google.com>

http://python.org/dev/doc/devel/whatsnew/node12.html
Is this what you're looking for?

I love that time machine :-)


From larrye2000 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov  8 18:48:59 2002
From: larrye2000 at hotmail.com (larry)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 15:48:59 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7b8f89d6.0211081548.f91b468@posting.google.com>

oleg_inconnu at myrealbox.com (Oleg) wrote in message news:<3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi
> 
> I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
> between Python and Common Lisp (
> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
> 
> Oleg

I think the same could be asked about Perl vs Python:
Why is Perl so much more popular than Python?

Another question that could be asked about Lisp is:
Most people it seems have nothing good to say about lisp:"it's hard to
read,it's slow, nobody uses it, it's hard to learn etc, etc".
Lisp is constantly being bashed
and yet Lisp has survived for over 40 years and several companies
(Franz, Xanalys, Digitool)
seem to make a profit selling lisp compilers. SOMEBODY is using Lisp.
If lisp is such a crummy language why has it survived at all for so
long?
Why do SOME people think Lisp is a fantastic programming langugae?
Are we missing something?


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Fri Nov  1 08:15:34 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:15:34 +0100
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg> <slrnas4p25.e4j.TuxTrax@fortress.tuxnet>
Message-ID: <aptuq0$uec$1@news.netpower.no>

"TuxTrax" <TuxTrax at fortress.tuxnet.net> wrote in message

>
> Your comments reveal a thoughtful and curious approach that is quite
healthy.
> It also reveals a world view that has in large part been shaped by the
> philosophies of proprietary software companies.
>
> Is a python compiler available for linux? I don't know. I do know that no
> Linux users I know would even consider using one. It would never cross our
> minds to make our source closed to others. This is where the whole open
source
> software movement takes a completely different world view. In open source
> software, you retain the right to make a profit from your work, while
still
> granting others the right to copy, distribute, modify and view the source
> code. Just a year ago, this whole concept was horrifying to me. I could
> not concieve of allowing others to have free access to my source code. As
> a Long time windows user, I had some un-learning to do. But unlearn I did.
> I started thinking in terms of the advantages of open source. First, it
keeps
> you honest; you write your best code because you know that your peers are
> going to be seeing it all over the world. Second, with open source, once
> you release it, other programmers may modify it helping it to become more
> than you ever could have made it on your own (unless you choose to forbid
> the modification of your code, but that's another subject). Third, the
> distribution of your product using the open source community, has no
equal,
> and will cost you nothing. You can provide support to your users via
> that same community at little or no cost to you, and support is the number
> one ongoing cost that software developers get saddled with. You can use
> the resources of such organizations as the free software foundation to
> defend your copyright (don't let the "free" in FSF throw you; you can
still
> market your product using the GPL licence).
>
> And finally, you get to give something back. This is a philosophical point
> for me, but giving something back to the community that you benefit from,
> whether it be your local community, or the computer community, is very
> important for us as people. It is a common and refreshing view that you
> will find in the open source world, and one reason that I left the
> windows world for good. But thats a soapbox for another time. <grin>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mathew
>

I think you are making the mistake many "born again" open-source advocates
make, and one that many anti-open-source people also make.  There is plenty
of place in the world for both open and closed source software.  In some
situations, one is far better than the other, in some cases either will do
the job.  Saying that everything should be open source is as bad as saying
everything should be closed source.  It's a common misunderstanding about
Linux ("Software companies should not write for Linux because then they
would have to give away all their source code...").

Consider, for example, the program I am writing at the moment.  It is in
Python - a language whose licence is very clear in stating that all
Python-licenced code can be used in open and closed source software (keeping
copyright messages intact).  The program provides a gui for an embedded
motor controller card, and our customer is paying good money for me to write
the program.  He intends to sell the cards on to his customers, with this
controller program to go with it.  In the future, he will want a bigger
version of the program (supporting several cards simultaneously).  He may
well want to charge his customers for that software upgrade.  He certainly
won't want his customers to have full access to the code - they may modify
it for use with other supplier's motor cards.  This is not a program for
which either myself or my customer will gain any benifits from releasing it
as open source - no one is going to be making improvements to it that will
benifit us.  However, there are certainly *parts* of the program that could
be released seperately.  For example, I may seperate out the graphing parts
of the gui into a nice, modular graph widget.  That could easily be released
as open source (Python licence), for the benifit of others and for our own
benifit - if people like it, they will contribute improvements which I can
then use.  If I make any changes or improvements to the pyserial module that
I am using, then I certainly will pass those changes back to the community.
But by the time I get as far as making distribution copies of the program,
I'll be making two sorts of packages - py2exe packages for easy installation
on Windows machines, and .pyc byte-code files for use on Linux (and for
Windows users who already have Python).

I fully agree that there are often direct benifits from making your own
software open source.  There is also the personal satisfaction factor - I
have not written much that could be of direct benifit to others (my job is
embedded systems development - you need our company's hardware to run our
software), but I have enjoyed the feeling I get from the few direct
contributions I have made.  But there are many reasons to write closed
source code as well.  You do not speak for the Linux-using community when
you say that writing closed source is against your principles.  From a
user's viewpoint, open source is definitely an advantage - just like lower
cost, better documentation or more functionality is an advantage.  But from
the writer or sellers viewpoint, it is a mixed blessing which must be
considered sensibly - just like the selling price, the level of
documentation and the functionality of the software.  The aim of all
businesses is to make money - preferably by providing good products and
services to their customers.  If that end can be best achieved by openning
their software, great.  If it is best achieved by closing their software,
then that's the way it is.






From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Sat Nov 23 12:26:00 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:26:00 +0100
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
In-Reply-To: <aro7k9$o9u$0@216.39.172.122>; from bokr@oz.net on Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 03:42:01PM +0000
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <aro7k9$o9u$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20021123182600.N11257@prim.han.de>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:53:42 GMT, Andrew Koenig <ark at research.att.com> wrote:
> 
> >Eric> So I told myself: wouldn't it be great if max(None, x) or
> >Eric> min(None, x) always simply returned x?
> >
> >My first thought was that this was an excellent idea.
> >
> >Then I thought again.
> >
> >Here's the problem:  The notion that max(None, x) and min(None, x)
> >should both return x is one of three desirable properties that cannot
> >all be true at once.  Here are the other two:
> >
> >        1) Whenever x < y, min(x, y) is x and max(x, y) is y.
> >
> >        2) < is an order relation over all types.
> >
> >The desirability of (1) should be obvious.  (2) is more subtle, but
> >it is necessary for it to be possible to sort a vector of heterogenously
> >typed objects.
> >
> >Now, if max(None, x) and min(None, x) both yield x, and (1) is true,
> >then x > None and x < None must both be true.  But then (2) cannot
> >be true.
> >
> >So the cost of your proposal would be either to break the consistency
> >between max/min and >/<, or to render unsortable vectors of values
> >that include None.
> >
> >I don't think it's worth it.
> >
> How about adding optional keyword args to min and max, so the semantics
> would be something like (not very tested ;-):
> 
>  >>> class private_sentinel: pass
>  ...
>  >>> def mymax(*seq, **kw):
>  ...     exclude = kw.get('exclude', private_sentinel)
>  ...     empty = kw.get('empty', private_sentinel)
>  ...     try:
>  ...         return max(filter(lambda x: not isinstance(x, exclude), seq))
>  ...     except ValueError:
>  ...         if empty == private_sentinel: raise
>  ...         return empty
>  ...
>  >>> mymax(None, 2, 3)
>  3
>  >>> mymax(None, 2, 3, exclude=(int,type(None)),empty='nothing left')
>  'nothing left'
>  >>> mymax(None, 2, 3,'a string', exclude=(int,type(None)),empty='nothing left')
>  'a string'
> 
> (oops, that 'if empty == ...' would have been better as 'if empty is ...')

I like this idea! Maybe the common case should be writable as

    mymax(x, y , exclude=None)

and it doesn't introduce significant backward compatibility issues.

regards,

    holger



From e_viola at libero.it  Fri Nov 15 14:30:02 2002
From: e_viola at libero.it (bart)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:30:02 GMT
Subject: BUG URLLIB2
References: <3DD43DA7.5070004@libero.it> <ar39ks$dqv$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3DD54B15.3080001@libero.it>

> That's not a bug in urllib2; google.it is *really* returning 403
> FORBIDDEN.
> It appears that this google behaviour is triggered by the header
> 
> User-agent: Python-urllib/2.0a1
> 
> that urllib2 sends, which, in turn, suggests that Google explicitly bans
> urllib2.
> Complain to them.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> 

Thanks to all them that helped me swiftly!!!

How can I change User-Agent field presents inside "urllib2"?

I find two variables that (I think) define user agent in "urllib2" 
library: "__name__" and "__version__".

I tested to set them following way:

      __name__="Mozzilla"
      __version__="5.0"

but it failed yet!!!

Whatever suggest is accept!!!

                                                    - Ennio Viola -







From bwfc10 at aol.com  Sat Nov 16 05:12:20 2002
From: bwfc10 at aol.com (Bwfc10)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 10:12:20 GMT
Subject: quick question
Message-ID: <20021116051220.01520.00000047@mb-bk.aol.com>

If you were writing a program aking about peoples favourite flavour of ice
cream and you input the number of votes for 5 flavours, how do you get your
program to display the most popular (the one with the most votes).
This may be easy to most of you but i am new to python.
Thanks


From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Nov 19 16:59:35 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:59:35 GMT
Subject: zero-copy array slicing
References: <e5e6d03.0211190138.e7cfc0e@posting.google.com> <JLqC9.37182$Yw.1775061@news2.tin.it> <e5e6d03.0211191238.65b572c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bvyC9.29870$744.1083099@news1.tin.it>

Trevor wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<JLqC9.37182
>> > Is a zero-copy array slicing operation possible? [..]
>>
>> [..] if this the behavior you need, the simplest way to get it is exactly
>> with the Numeric extensions
> 
> Interesting, thanks!  However I don't think Numeric or Numarray
> support the buffer interface (or come standard with python), which was
> my reason for trying to use the array module.

Numeric doesn't come standard with Python, but does give you effective ways 
to 'get a grip' as you request.  It also supports the buffer interface:

>>> import Numeric
>>> x=Numeric.arange(5)
>>> buffer(x)
<read-only buffer for 0x81c19d8, ptr 0x81c1778, size 20 at 0x81f5238>
>>>

but I doubt that's really what you want to use for the purpose you explain.


> What I'm trying to do is interface a C cryptography library to python,
> so I can encrypt/hash data in as convenient and efficient a way as
> possible.  I was thinking the buffer interface would be the best way
> to get a grip on the contents of strings (for read-only operations
> like hashing) and arrays.  If arrays had a subsequence() function then
> I could efficiently hash or encrypt-in-place parts of arrays:
> 
> bytes = readArrayFromBigFile()
> hash(bytes.subsequence(128))              #hash all but some header
> encrypt(bytes)                            #encrypt whole array
> encrypt(bytes.subsequence(start, finish)) #encrypt some section

You can do that with slices of Numeric.array instances of course -- Numeric 
IS designed to for power, flexibility, and speed, while the builtin array 
is designed for light-weight, simple, no-overhead operation.  And, the 
buffer interface is not necessarily best for your purposes.


> I'd be willing to try to add this.  But maybe I should explore the
> solution space more.  What would you recommend as the most Pythonic
> approach, given these constraints?
>  - in-place operation on subsequences of bytes, from the C api
>  - convenient application to different types (e.g. strings, arrays)
>  - ideally, no dependency on nonstandard libraries (like Numeric)

Wouldn't it be simpler if your functions also accepted optional parameters 
for offset and size in bytes?  So the user could call

hash(bytes, 128)
encrypt(bytes)
encrypt(bytes, start, finish-start)

...?


Alex



From newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Nov 13 18:18:03 2002
From: newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk (Newt)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:18:03 GMT
Subject: property problems
Message-ID: <L4BA9.2023$ev.15607967@news-text.cableinet.net>

Hi,

I've got a problem trying to use a property in a class module. The class module is listed below (it's called globals.py):

class GlobalVars:

    def __init__(self):
        self.l_stats = []
        return

    def set_stats(self,val):
        self.l_stats = val[:]
        return

    def get_stats(self):
        return self.l_stats

    stats = property(get_stats, set_stats)

gv = GlobalVars()

I've got a further module which does the following:

from globals import gv
gv.stats([['Height',self.height],['Build',self.build],['Strength',str]])

However, I get the following error: 

Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python22\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1292, in __call__
    return apply(self.func, args)
  File "D:\py_stuff\curry.py", line 14, in __call__
    return self.fun(*(self.pending + args), **kw)
  File "D:\py_stuff\chaz.py", line 223, in shownext
    SelectStats(self)
  File "D:\py_stuff\stats.py", line 46, in __init__
    self.do_widgets()
  File "D:\py_stuff\stats.py", line 208, in do_widgets
    gv.stats([['Height',self.height],['Build',self.build],['Strength',str]])
TypeError: 'list' object is not callable

Could somebody explain to mw what this means, and how to fix it please!

Thanks,

Newt
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From sundae1888 at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  2 03:33:11 2002
From: sundae1888 at hotmail.com (sundae)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 00:33:11 -0800
Subject: Sending null byte to serial port in Windows using PySerial?
References: <49f4e27a.0211010930.56788863@posting.google.com> <Xns92B9ECB73A675cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <49f4e27a.0211020033.6d7b66ac@posting.google.com>

> > com = serial.Serial("COM1", 9600, timeout=1)
> 
> sidenote: i sugest to use numbers i.e. 0 <-> "COM1" that makes it easier if 
> you want to run the prog on other platforms or with jython.

Portability isn't a big concern for this application (yet), with the
ActiveX I'm using, but I'll take your advice.

> > com.write(chr(0))
> 
> well i'm reading and writing null characters en masse. so no problem. the 
> port is configured for binary data transmition on all platforms.

So that *is* the way to send a null byte?  I was wondering if I
screwed up there (and/or that WriteFile() doesn't support null byte).

> > The device should reply a single byte upon receiving this byte, but I
> > never got anything in reply.
> 
> well i suspect that something is wrong with your setup. you're sure your 
> device is connected to the right port and listening with the same baudrate?
> you're reading from the port as you expect, you use a timeout. does the 
> read function return before your device answers?

Hm.. then either a) the protocol (including baudrate, etc) is not the
same as the manufacturer's specification states; or b) the port
timeout before I read... the device is "supposed to be working" in the
"other-apps-can-access-it" sense.

Since it's easier to test case (b), my question is, would inWaiting()
detect a byte even if the timeout is too fast?

Thank you again!


From grante at visi.com  Mon Nov 25 13:56:10 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 18:56:10 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <arsni0$pnk$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <slrnau4sle.9as.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <arsni0$pnk$1 at news.netpower.no>, David Brown wrote:

>> I never liked filter, map and reduce.

So don't use them. ;)

> I find lambda and map very useful - used carefully, they can be of great
> value to the readability of a program (letting you write exactly what you
> mean in a short space, without cluttering up the code with unnecessary
> "def"s and function names that are not needed).  Filter is less useful -
> list comprehensions are often easier to read and write.
> Reduce is a lot
> less useful, because it is a lot less obvious what it is doing.

I find both map and filter easily replaced with list comprehensions.  How do
you replace a reduce call with a list comprehension?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  World War Three can
                                  at               be averted by adherence
                               visi.com            to a strictly enforced
                                                   dress code!


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Nov 27 22:38:29 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 03:38:29 GMT
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org> <3DE4102D.7D4291F4@alcyone.com> <3DE58723.5040306@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <3o3buus1f8kv1psdps2nsq3ed8ltq5ece8@4ax.com>

>This is a special case of the general principle that it's
>usually clearer if expressions don't have side effects.

Oh, quite true! As a general rule of thumb, I consider
expressions with side effects to be bad coding practice.
I don't mind at all that Python doesn't allow them.

C//



From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Fri Nov 29 04:08:10 2002
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:08:10 GMT
Subject: LAN communication under windows
References: <3de60530.10377734@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <3de72dee.86343953@news.easynews.net>

Hi,
thanks to all of you. I played around with the socket modul and had a
look at all the stuff you mentioned.

With my overwhelming knowledge I think PYRO is what I need.

Thanks again,
marcus



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 04:18:50 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 02:18:50 -0700
Subject: popkey() method for dictionaries?
References: <ar7i50$3ib$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <f9068f8e.0211170458.541bfeba@posting.google.com> <ar8rge$rer$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1037569703.8212.python-list@python.org> <ar97b6$514$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <g21C9.10147$br6.5755@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <arab9u$ook$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:

> Do you have use cases demonstrating the value of a default rather than an
> exception?

Sure. First, on principle: the exception option is still there, if no default 
is provided. What giving a default buys you is not having to trap the 
exception yourself. If you want a missing key to generate an exception, 
simply don't give a default and that's it. Since it doesn't change the 
existing semantics (the current form doesn't take any arguments, so there 
can't be any confusion), I think it's a good addition.

But you asked for code. Here's an example from a wrapper which needs to filter 
out a keyword dictionary given to a function before passing it downstream. It 
needs to remove keywords which won't be understood by the downstream 
function, but it knows how to make a default decision if the keyword wasn't 
given:

        # Filter out other options the original plot doesn't know
        hardcopy = popkey(keyw,'hardcopy',psargs['filename'] is not None)
        titles = popkey(keyw,'titles',0)

This uses my popkey() function, with the new method it would be simply

        # Filter out other options the original plot doesn't know
        hardcopy = keyw.pop('hardcopy',psargs['filename'] is not None)
        titles = keyw.pop('titles',0)

if my suggestion were accepted. I can always live with my popkey() function 
instead, if the crippled version is left in the language :) What I _won't_ do 
is use the crippled pop() and wrap things everywhere with explicit try/except 
blocks. In the end that only hurts readaility and creates bloat.

This is part of the Gnuplot wrappers in IPython, if you want to see the full 
code (or I can give more context). IPython lives at 
http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython

> Also, discuss why similarity with dict.get() applies instead of symmetry
> with list.pop() or dict.popitem().

- list.pop: I wasn't looking when that was written :) But I could argue 
similarly that an optional default argument would be a sensible, useful 
addition. No semantic break for existing code, and it saves people setting up 
try/except traps.

- dict.popitem: this one I'm ok with not having a default value, since it is 
meant to traverse the dict in essentially random order. Adding a default 
value would be like having a dict_with_default kind of object, which is 
definitely different from a regular python dict. popitem() returns a k/v pair 
and is typically used for exhausting a dict destructively, so it makes a lot 
of sense to break at the end. 

But pop(key) is much more specific, so I think it is sensible to be able to 
control its behavior more closely. Just like dict.get(), which allows 
straight through the function interface one to control what happens to 
missing keys. Semantically pop(key) is almost like get(key), with the 
difference that it deletes the k/v entry from the dict. It seems only natural 
then that pop() would support the same default arg behavior that get() has.

Cheers,

f.


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Thu Nov 21 13:47:40 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:47:40 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037846248.22487.python-list@python.org> <m2bs4jc8jl.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <tZ5D9.36447$744.1329828@news1.tin.it> <3DDD0699.5080007@nyc.rr.com> <V69D9.52271$Yw.2392637@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DDD2AAA.7040201@nyc.rr.com>


Alex Martelli wrote:
> Dylan has macros too.  

yeah, but not quite like CL. But I am out of my depth. The gang on 
c.l.l. would have better answers.

One thing I can tell you is that I /love/ during the rather prosaic task 
of editing being able to instantly select a sexpr small or large, and as 
one can imagine this tends to come up a lot because sexprs naturally 
form integrated wadges of semantics.

> So isn't "major source" at least an overbid, if "I'm 
> not far off" in stating that a language with a totally different syntax
> can "capture much" of the same capabilities?

I was being nice! No, seriously, Dylan has GC, GFs, MI, macros to a 
degree, static but optional typing -- but no unhygienic macros which can 
actually be cool, and... I cannot speak for the author of "major 
source", I wager it comes down to: the list of things one cannot do 
without sexprs may be short, but they are vital to the spirit of CL. 
Again, tho, Major Source should speak for themself. :)

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 29 15:43:39 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 21:43:39 +0100
Subject: Windows locale: default charset
References: <20021129141801.26007.24999.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1038582217.8465.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3ptsot8ck.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

antonmuhin ?? rambler.ru <antonmuhin at rambler.ru> writes:

> I want to find out default Windows charset to perform
> encoding/decoding of Unicode strings.
> 
> locale module seems of no help---nl_langinfo function that could
> provide me with needed info isn't included in ActiveState Python 2.2.
> I found no similar functions in win extensions modules either.
> 
> May anybody point me info or snippets?

On Windows, locale.getlocale()[1] works well (although it does not
work that well on other systems). In Python 2.3,
locale.getpreferredencoding will work uniformly on all systems.

Regards,
Martin



From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Wed Nov 27 16:09:01 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:09:01 +1100
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
In-Reply-To: <m2r8d67np1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <mailman.1038414274.6010.python-list@python.org> <vs7auu07opjlv8enekpde94kfo241tnr5a@4ax.com> <m2r8d67np1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <200211280809.01424.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 07:38, John Hunter wrote:
> >>>>> "malik" == malik m <malik_martin at hotmail.com> writes:
>
>     malik> i didnt to import that yet but i will try even tho i think
>     malik> the program did what i want it to:)
>
> What do you think your mpg is if you drive 3 miles on a tank that
> holds 2 gallons?  What does your program tell you it is .....
How far is a mile? How much is a gallon?

Those are not metric measures, and don't have (as much) meaning outside places 
dominated by American and English culture.

Brad

- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From jorgencederberg at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 12 01:53:19 2002
From: jorgencederberg at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Cederberg?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:53:19 +0100
Subject: Running python on windows.
References: <8b58f27c.0211112121.36e0de25@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <zz1A9.5$th5.326@news.get2net.dk>

"kk" <kishoreb8 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:8b58f27c.0211112121.36e0de25 at posting.google.com...
> Hi 
>  I am new to python, tried to run python at >>> prompt its giving
> syntax error.Any one help me to run python scripts on windows.

Hi kk,

you should really read the tutorial http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html , that is the way I learned Python. Trying out of the things in the prompt and getting a feeling for the syntax and how to write programs in Python. Otherwise you could also try to look at http://www.python.org/doc/Newbies.html .

Regards
Jorgen


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 25 06:15:12 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:15:12 GMT
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com> <slrnatvd5o.tjt.grante@localhost.localdomain> <slrnau0b6e.ugj.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4DnE9.70284$Yw.3336342@news2.tin.it>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> BTW, I believe that there are already games on the market that use Python
> as a scripting langauge, aren't there?

Yes, see for example Bruce Dawson's paper:

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20020821/dawson_pfv.htm


Alex



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov 22 17:18:30 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:18:30 -0600
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
In-Reply-To: <3dddbfef_1@omega.dimensional.com>
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org>
        <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122>
        <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com>
        <mailman.1037931571.16100.python-list@python.org>
        <3dddbfef_1@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <15838.44342.601039.771176@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> What happens if you reach into the file wrapper and grab the raw socket?

    Mike> How do I do that? u.fp is as close as I seem to be able to get.

Oops, I guess makefile() doesn't give you an easy way to get back to its
host socket.

    >> Did you build Python with or without pymalloc?

    Mike> I installed it from the FreeBSD packages collection. If pymalloc
    Mike> is not normally built-in, then it's probably not in the package.

    >> Can you try the opposite?

    Mike> I'd rather not obliterate my current installation, no.

You should be able to build from source and run against the not-installed
interpreter.  The default (unless the FreeBSD folks muck with the configure
settings) should be to build --with-pymalloc.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Mon Nov  4 07:45:10 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 12:45:10 GMT
Subject: Need simple algorithm for newbie
References: <d1a9617c.0211040433.1eddb118@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnascqoc.110.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

Jason Tudisco <tudisco at sexmagnet.com> [2002-11-04 12:33 GMT]:
> I have a list of domains... Some of the domain names in the list look
> like this:
> 
> groups.goodle.com
> 
> The information I want is just google.com. I need to know the best way
> to do this.. for .com .net .org only.. and to strip the rest of the
> garbage.. like in this case.. get rid of groups in groups.google.com
> 
> I need to parse though a huge list so it has to be optimized algorithm

I did a little experimentation in the interactive interpreter:

C:\>python
Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> x = "groups.google.com"
>>> x.split(".")
['groups', 'google', 'com']
>>> x.split(".")[-2:]
['google', 'com']
>>> ".".join(x.split(".")[-2:])
'google.com'

The [-2:] slicing might not be obvious at first - it slices out the last two
elements of the list.

-- Gerhard


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Thu Nov  7 12:16:58 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:16:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
In-Reply-To: <200211070101.gA711xx03741@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211070855350.10375-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Dave Reed wrote:

> I've been using Python for my own projects (from short scripts to
> 25,000 line apps) for almost three years now and can't imagine using
> anything else right for anything that wasn't extremely computationally
> expensive. After attending the panel, I talked my other colleagues
> into using it for our CS 1 course this fall. The only thing that
> bothers me about Python for teaching is the lack of enforced private
> members for classes. As an experienced programmer, I can live with
> that because I know better, but I don't know whether the students will
> believe me when I tell them it's a bad idea to directly access them
> outside of classes :-)

Who cares if they believe you though, and why should they anyway? Part of
becoming a good programmer is getting bit by taking shortcuts (over doing
it the "right" way), learning from it, and moving on - and it's a great
thing to learn through experience that the prof might actually know what 
he's talking about! :)

> I also suspect this issue may prevent other universities from seriously
> considering Python for introductory courses.

Yeah, but in reality it shouldn't. Up-and-coming programmers routinely
ignore what we consider to be even the most basic best practices. I mean,
what first year (or any year, for that matter!) languages force people to
use good variable names, limit their use of global variables, avoid magic
numbers, and stay away from creating 1000-line functions?

Anyway, it was exciting for me to read your observations so far from using
Python at the university level, especially the idea that more
problem-solving time is being spent in "algorithm space" than "syntax
space" (which shouldn't surprise me since that's the experience Python
users tend to have). I'd love to hear more of what you learn as time goes
on - please keep posting!

-Dave




From just at xs4all.nl  Wed Nov 20 03:38:14 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:38:14 +0100
Subject: changing the Python grammar ?
References: <2259b0e2.0211181221.2eab9db7@posting.google.com> <7h3zns5vkrf.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <just-52D918.09381320112002@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <7h3zns5vkrf.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>,
 Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:

> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:
> 
> > Browsing on the on-line refencence manual you can find the formal
> > definition of the Python grammar: 
> > http://python.org/doc/current/ref/grammar.txt
> 
> Bear in mind that that is a descriptive grammar.  The real one is
> Grammar/Grammar in the source distribution.
[ ... ]
> > Notice that I do NOT want to introduce ugly perlish-like identifiers in
> > Python, I simply want to know how much it is possible to customize the
> > Python grammar: is this a simple hack or a nightmare ?
> 
> Somewhere between those.  As your customizations get more ambitious,
> you'll probably find yourself rapidly heading for the "nightmare" end
> of that scale.

Perhaps it's an idea for the OP to look at the compiler module? I have 
no experience with it, but I would expect that experiments like this 
would be more manageble with it.

Just


From hgg9140 at seanet.com  Fri Nov 15 19:30:29 2002
From: hgg9140 at seanet.com (Harry George)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 16:30:29 -0800
Subject: module to generate RTF?
References: <xqxbs4qwhm1.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <ar43r2$b89$2@news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <m3wunexsnu.fsf@wilma.localdomain>

Adam Przybyla <adam at gliwice.pl> writes:

> Harry George <hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com> wrote:
> > We need to traverse a database, and generate a Word document.  If we
> > do that via COM, we are locked into running on a MS WIn** box, so we'd
> > prefer to do RTF.  I can generate the raw RTF codes inline with write
> > statements, but it would be nice if someone had already done some
> > syntactic sugar on that.  Anything available?
> 	... XML+python -> docbook -> rtf ;-) Regards
> 								Adam Przybyla

I thought of that first.  In fact, I even thought of
pdx->docbook->rtf.  But I chickened out, worried the templates I'll
need to splice into will not be (easily) do-able through docbook.
You've inspired me to take another look.
   
-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com


From ghillie at suse.de  Wed Nov 13 11:22:02 2002
From: ghillie at suse.de (Gernot Hillier)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:22:02 +0100
Subject: crash (SEGV) in Py_EndInterpreter() in multithreaded program
Message-ID: <aqtu7j$h68$1@Fourier.suse.de>

Hi!

I experience a 80% reproducable SIGSEGV in a multithreaded app I wrote using 
different embedded sub interpreters in its threads.

I have a C++ class (PClass) which encapsulates the sub-interpreters somehow 
- it creates a new one in its constructor and deletes it in the destructor 
(see below).

When 2 objects of this class are destroyed at nearly the same time thus 
resulting in subsequent calls to Py_EndInterpreter(), I get the following 
SIGSEGV in most cases:

> gdb application core.31889
[...]
Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault.
[...]
Reading symbols from /lib/ld-linux.so.2...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/ld-linux.so.2
Reading symbols from /usr/local/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/time.so...done.
Loaded symbols for /usr/local/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/time.so
#0  0x08078763 in class_dealloc (op=0x81a8624) at Objects/classobject.c:169
169             _PyObject_GC_UNTRACK(op);
(gdb) bt
#0  0x08078763 in class_dealloc (op=0x81a8624) at Objects/classobject.c:169
#1  0x080daefa in PyThreadState_Clear (tstate=0x816b7f0) at 
Python/pystate.c:190
#2  0x080dab89 in PyInterpreterState_Clear (interp=0x81427e8) at 
Python/pystate.c:77
#3  0x080dce1e in Py_EndInterpreter (tstate=0x816b7f0) at 
Python/pythonrun.c:381
#4  0x0805c287 in ~PClass (this=0x81421d0) at pclass.cpp:123


When the 2nd object is destroyed some seconds later, everything seems to be 
fine. It only crashes when the 2 objects are deleted within a short period 
of time.

I've tried this with the SuSE RPMs of Python 2.2.1 and a self-built 
Python-2.2.2 with the same result. :-(

I've absolutely no clue what goes wrong here. I would appreciate any 
suggestion where to have a look. Perhaps some of you have an idea... TIA!!

Here's a very short snippet of the python related code in my class:

// Constructor, initializes Python sub-interpreter
PClass::PClass() 
{
        PyEval_AcquireLock();
        py_state=Py_NewInterpreter();
        PyEval_SaveThread();
}

// destructor, kills the Python sub-interpreter
PClass::~PClass()
{
        PyEval_RestoreThread(py_state); 
        Py_EndInterpreter(py_state);
        py_state=NULL;
        PyEval_ReleaseLock(); // release lock
}

// thread code, runs Python function 
void
PClass::run()
{
        PyEval_RestoreThread(py_state); 
        PyObject_CallFunction(...) 
        PyEval_SaveThread();
}

-- 
Ciao,

Gernot


From rmunn at pobox.com  Mon Nov 25 17:50:41 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:50:41 GMT
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnau5ahl.q7v.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Timothy Rue <threeseas at earthlink.net> wrote:
[Snip a large IRC log]
> ThreeSeas I'm a genius... If I can't answer your question I will try and make
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> out that you don't know what you are talking about..... but are there really
> 120 users here that hail to ...... dash

A free piece of advice for you. It's been my experience, along with the
experience of many others, that anybody who claims publicly to be a
genius:

a) Almost certainly has an ego problem, and

b) Usually isn't worth listening to.

I'm afraid that you won't find too many people on this newsgroup
sympathetic to you until you approach matters with a little humility and
begin first by considering the possibility that you might be wrong. If
you start by assuming "I'm must be right, therefore anybody who doesn't
agree with me is an idiot," you will find that very few people are
willing to listen to you.

I, in fact, am not one of those people willing to listen to you. If you
reply to this message, I won't see your reply; my newsreader will filter
it out automatically.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From pieroul at attglobal.net  Mon Nov 18 20:37:07 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:37:07 -0500
Subject: shutil module
References: <mailman.1037617166.19077.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD995C3.8070401@attglobal.net>

Harvey Thomas wrote:

>>i wanted to copy a file to another directory so i used the shutil module's copy() function. The name of this file will >>change everyday.eg, events-18-Nov-2002.txt and tomorrow will be events-19-Nov-2002.txt
>>
>>i used:
>>import shutil
>>import glob
>>shutil.copy (glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events*'), r'c:\temp')
>>
>>i couldn't seem to copy the file to c:\temp..it says
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "<pyshell#132>", line 1, in ?
>>   shutil.copy(glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events-*'),r'c:\temp')
>> File "C:\Python22\lib\shutil.py", line 61, in copy
>>   dst = os.path.join(dst, os.path.basename(src))
>> File "C:\Python22\Lib\ntpath.py", line 190, in basename
>>   return split(p)[1]
>> File "C:\Python22\Lib\ntpath.py", line 149, in split
>>   while i and p[i-1] not in '/\\':
>>TypeError: 'in <string>' requires character as left operand
>>
>>i checked the output of glob and it says
>>
>>>>>glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events-*')
>>>>
>>['c:\\winnt\\temp\\events-18-Nov-2002.txt']
>>
>>could it be the double slash that is making the fault....??
>>
>>thanks for anyhelp
> 
> 
> The arguments to shutil.copy are strings - the pathnames of the source and destination files. glob.glob, however, returns a list of strings, as you can see above where you have a list containing one string -
> ['c:\\winnt\\temp\\events-18-Nov-2002.txt'].
> 
> So, try (untested)
> 
> for src in glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events*'):
>     shutil.copy (src, r'c:\temp')
> 

How about a little function that make sure that you always use forward 
slashes (even under Windows) called unixpath() and then using 
shutil.copy() with normal forward slashes (which work in Windows and are 
more portable) like this:

def unixpath(thePath) :
    """Return a path name that contains Unix separator.

    [Example]
    >>> unixpath("d:\\test")
    'd:/test'
    >>> unixpath("d:/test/file.txt")
    'd:/test/file.txt'
    >>>
    """
    thePath = os.path.normpath(thePath)
    if os.sep == '/':
       return thePath
    else:
       return thePath.replace(os.sep,'/')


allFiles = glob.glob('c:/winnt/temp/events*')
for index in xrange(len(allFiles)):
    shutil.copy(unixpath(allFiles[ii]),'c:/temp')


-- 
   Pierre Rouleau





From max at malva.com.uaREMOVE.IT  Thu Nov 28 06:20:41 2002
From: max at malva.com.uaREMOVE.IT (Max Ischenko)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:20:41 +0200
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <96u4sa.llp.ln@cvs>

 Robin Munn wrote:


[...]


> where each indentation level would be a different color (foreground?
> background?). I wonder how hard it would be to modify lisp.vim to allow
> this? Well, that's not a project I really have time for at the moment;
> maybe later on.

This's been done already:

=== from  Vim/after/syntax/lisp.vim
" lisp.vim: highlights different levels of () with different shades of
"              grey.  Only good for gvim plus lisp
"  Author: Charles E. Campbell, Jr.
"  Date:   Mar 04, 2002
if has("gui_running")
  if version < 508
    command! -nargs=+ HiLink hi <args>
  else
    command! -nargs=+ HiLink hi def <args>
  endif

  syn region lispParen1           transparent matchgroup=lispP1 start="(" matchgroup=lispP1 end=")" contains=@lispListCluster,lispParen2
  syn region lispParen2 contained transparent matchgroup=lispP2 start="(" matchgroup=lispP2 end=")" contains=@lispListCluster,lispParen3
  syn region lispParen3 contained transparent matchgroup=lispP3 start="(" matchgroup=lispP3 end=")" contains=@lispListCluster,lispParen4
  syn region lispParen4 contained transparent matchgroup=lispP4 start="(" matchgroup=lispP4 end=")" contains=@lispListCluster,lispParen5
  syn region lispParen5 contained transparent matchgroup=lispP5 start="(" matchgroup=lispP5 end=")" contains=@lispListCluster,lispParen6
  syn region lispParen6 contained transparent matchgroup=lispP6 start="(" matchgroup=lispP6 end=")" contains=@lispListCluster,lispParen7
  syn region lispParen7 contained transparent matchgroup=lispP7 start="(" matchgroup=lispP7 end=")" contains=@lispListCluster,lispParen1
  
  HiLink lispP1 term=NONE cterm=NONE gui=NONE guifg=white
  HiLink lispP2 term=NONE cterm=NONE gui=NONE guifg=bisque1
  HiLink lispP3 term=NONE cterm=NONE gui=NONE guifg=bisque2
  HiLink lispP4 term=NONE cterm=NONE gui=NONE guifg=bisque3
  HiLink lispP5 term=NONE cterm=NONE gui=NONE guifg=bisque4
  HiLink lispP6 term=NONE cterm=NONE gui=NONE guifg=chocolate3
  HiLink lispP7 term=NONE cterm=NONE gui=NONE guifg=chocolate4
endif

-- 
The Web site you seek
cannot be located but
endless others exist.


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Nov 19 15:29:47 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:29:47 -0500
Subject: very large inserts
References: <D408B6AC060DB24790622E1A54204DB00A3CB29D@xchange.rightnowtech.com>
Message-ID: <3DDA9F3B.8070609@rogers.com>

Isn't that what the executemany method in DBAPI is intended to allow?

*executemany*(operation,seq_of_parameters)
    Prepare a database operation (query or command) and then execute it
    against all parameter sequences or mappings found in the sequence
    |seq_of_parameters|.

    Modules are free to implement this method using multiple calls to
    the |execute()| method or by using array operations to have the
    database process the sequence as a whole in one call.

That is, the DB may optimise it, or it may have to go through execute, 
but this is where the optimisation comes if it's available.  If I 
understand correctly, you'd create a parameterised insert:

    insert = """INSERT INTO table (col1, col2, col3, col4) values (%1, 
%2, %3, %4)"""

And then call executemany( insert, my_values_list )

Good luck,
Mike


Kempf, Reed wrote:

>Hello,
>
>My name is Reed and I am new to the list as of today.  I have been working
>with python for about 6 months and I have an issue where I am stumped.
>
>My background is in python, pl/sql and oracle database management with a
>touch of mysql database management.
>
>Anyway, I know in mysql you can do a bulk insert or an insert where you can
>insert many records with one insert statement like this:
>
>MYSQL - insert into table (col1, col2, col3, col4)
>        values (1,2,3,4),(2,3,4,5),(3,4,5,6),(4,5,6,7);
>
>In oracle, you would have to do 1 insert at a time unless you are using
>pl/sql in which you can do a bulk insert (as far as I know).
>
>ORACLE - insert into table (col1, col2, col3, col4)
>         values (1,2,3,4);
>         insert into table (col1, col2, col3, col4)
>         values (2,3,4,5); and so forth.......
>
>My question is, can python simulate a mysql bulk insert in python?
>
>I am running a linux distribution 6.2 with kernel 2.4.17 and oracle 8.1.7.4
>patch set.  I am also using python 2.1.  Currently in my python script I
>loop through a python dictionary and build an insert statement which I then
>pass through a connection to update oracle and move onto the next python
>dictionary key.  
>
>This works but I would sincerely like to build one very large insert
>statement and pass it to the oracle connection all at once.  This is an
>issue for me since I am going through sqlnet and across a VPN to update the
>oracle database.  The less cursors I pass through the connection, the
>better.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>ReedK
>
>
>  
>

-- 
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Nov  3 10:48:10 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Nov 2002 10:48:10 -0500
Subject: __coerce__ called for dict keys?
References: <apfe0g$o3p$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <m27kg09hj2.fsf@python.net> <3DC02BC8.5020902@NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> <Xns92B7939E346B6ID134675userdfncisd@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <aq3gfq$356$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <Xns92B7939E346B6ID134675userdfncisd at 130.133.1.4>,
Paul D. Lusk <plusk at radford.edu> wrote:
>
>I think you need __eq__ rather than __cmp__ in 2.2

Nope.  __eq__ gets called before __cmp__, but __cmp__ gets called if
__eq__ isn't defined.  See PEP 207.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Project Vote Smart: http://www.vote-smart.org/


From 2002 at weholt.org  Wed Nov 13 15:02:48 2002
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:02:48 +0100
Subject: Referencing Data structures from a different file?
References: <3dd2a563$0$28317$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1fyA9.102$G42.1625@news2.e.nsc.no>

in main.py do :

import data_structs

and use the structures like so :

data_structs.your_list.append(1) # or something, and :
data_structs.your_dict['a key'] = 'something'

or :

from data_structs import *

and you can access the structures without prefixing them with the
module-name;

your_list_in_data_structs.append(1)

etc.

"e-tones.co.uk" <admin at e-tones.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3dd2a563$0$28317$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
> Hi all, I have 2 files...
>
> main.py
> data_structs.py
>
> In data_structs I have a list and a dicionary, how do I make it so main.py
> can access these data structures?
>
> Cheers
> Taz
>
>




From writeson at earthlink.net  Mon Nov  4 20:24:30 2002
From: writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 17:24:30 -0800
Subject: python2.2 and wxPythonGTK problem
Message-ID: <88bc63c6.0211041724.17cff049@posting.google.com>

Hi all,
 
We just installed RedHat 8.0 on our servers and we're having a problem
with Python. The system comes with Python2.2. I installed wxPythonGTK
(what's currently available as a binary on wxpython.org) and ran into
some trouble. One of our other engineers is working on a system using
Python and wxPython for an application. She has been working on
Python2.2 (latest release from the python.org site) and
wxPython2.3.2.1, which was previously available on the wxpython.org
site. Her application worked fine under that setup on RedHat Linux
7.3. However, now the splitter window won't show it's contents with
the setup I described above for Linux 8.0 and wxPythonGTK. Does anyone
have any idea how I might fix this or what is going on?
 
Thanks,
Doug Farrell
Scholastic, Inc
 
dfarrell at grolier.com


From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 18 19:44:08 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 16:44:08 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
In-Reply-To: <0LeC9.17359$0U1.1724151@news2.east.cox.net>
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
	 <mailman.1037659117.8053.python-list@python.org>
	 <0LeC9.17359$0U1.1724151@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <1037666648.26205.309.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 15:31, Richard Dillingham wrote:
> if a,b>c,d: print a
>   File "<input>", line 1
>     if a,b>c,d: print a
>         ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> > Consider that when interpreting tuples as coordinates, (1,2) == (2,1) is
> probably true since...
> 
> That's not what I want at all, either. 1,2 == 2,1? Eh? Uh. That's not the
> same point.

It would depend upon how you look at it.  They have the same absolute
value (i.e. their distance from (0, 0)).  Hence if you were to define
comparison operators for coordinates (which might be used in sorting,
for instance) this is a perfectly valid assumption (otherwise is (2,1) >
(1,2)?).

> I'm temporarily storing mouse coordinates and comparing with old ones to
> determine why I seem to be getting the mouse moved mesage when the mouse
> coordinates haven't actually changed yet, among other things (In PyGame). I
> was just thinking that the if statement would be shorter and still
> understandable if done using commas, like assignment can be. That's all.

In that case, it seems you only need to know if they are the same point,
not whether one is "greater than" the other (your example of a,b>c,d is
misleading in this respect).  I would just use

if (a,b) != (c,d):
    # mouse moved
    ...


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From camhorn at mac.com  Wed Nov 13 15:37:28 2002
From: camhorn at mac.com (Cameron Horn)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:37:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
Message-ID: <2458268.1037219848120.JavaMail.camhorn@mac.com>

If I want to write an empty class, I do this:
class foo:
   pass

If I want to write an empty function, I write this:
def foo():
   pass
-or-
def foo():
   return

If I want to write an empty generator, I write this(?):
def foo():
   return
   yield "never"

Assuming that having an empty generator is as valid as empty functions and classes, what kind of linguistic cruft is that?  I expect better out of python, dang it.

What I'd like to write is:
gen foo():
   return




From Marten.Bauer at gmx.net  Sat Nov 16 07:25:13 2002
From: Marten.Bauer at gmx.net (Marten Bauer)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:25:13 +0100
Subject: Python instead of php
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.16.12.25.12.658252@gmx.net>

Hello to ya all,

i use python for programming a database (postgresql) project. 
The Systeminterfaces are written in python and the Userinterface 
(web based) is written in html/php.

Is it possible to use python like php as script language to writte
the Userinterfaces also in html and python?

Is modpython for apache or Twisted from Tweak Labroratory a possible
way?


Thanks for helping
Marten


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Wed Nov 20 21:14:15 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:14:15 +1100
Subject: [updates] PEP 301 -- Package Index and Metadata for Distutils
Message-ID: <200211211314.15032.rjones@ekit-inc.com>

[if you reply to this message, please only reply to one of the mailing lists!]

Hi everyone,

PEP 301 has been updated:
- changes to the success/failure indicators used by the register.py
  command. Originally I had copied the idea of using X-PyPI-* headers
  from PEP 243. Upon advice from Greg Stein, I have switched to using
  HTTP response codes.
- clarifications to Roles
- added PKG-INFO upload interface
- included overview of online index database schema
- updated deliverables in the Reference Implementation section
- included implememtation detail for "classifiers" keyword
- have implemented the trove classifiers, so various parts of the
  PEP to reflect reality

Also, the web interface and register distutils command have had some 
development work too:
- added Trove metadata to the database, including registration of it,
  verification and dumping
- added "latest stable" release field (unused at the moment)
- handle multiline descriptions in PKG-INFO uploads (yay for the email
  package)
- switched from X-Pypi-* headers to HTTP response codes as per PEP
- lots of HTML interface cleaning including better stylesheet usage and
  a nicer navigation bar, better support for logging in and out and
  finally a single place to go for submitting information


There's still a bit to do, but I'd rather wait until I know whether the PEP is 
to be accepted or not before I start applying spit-n-polish :)

Links:
  PEP: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0301.html
  Web: http://www.amk.ca/cgi-bin/pypi.cgi


     Richard




From camhorn at mac.com  Wed Nov 13 21:19:52 2002
From: camhorn at mac.com (Cameron Horn)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:19:52 -0500
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
In-Reply-To: <C96dneUfdtZLZU-gXTWcqw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <8ED7AF07-F777-11D6-A0F4-000A27B49144@mac.com>

On Wednesday, November 13, 2002, at 08:17 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:

>
> "Cameron Horn" <camhorn at mac.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1037219902.17042.python-list at python.org...
>> If I want to write an empty generator, I write this(?):
>> def foo():
>>    return
>>    yield "never"
>>
>> Assuming that having an empty generator is as valid as empty
> functions and classes,
>> what kind of linguistic cruft is that?  I expect better out of
> python, dang it.
>
> I challenge the assumption.  A generator, by definition, is a
> (nonempty) function (and not a separate generator type) that returns
> an iterator with __iter__ and next methods.

I agree, sort of.  The thing is that the implementation seems designed to 
let you ignore all those iteration details in most simple cases.  I just 
find it weird that writing the simplest possible generator, the one that 
iterates over no elements, either requires that you write that bit of 
nonsense above or know enough about the implementation to return an empty 
iterator.

Do you think that a generator that returns an empty iterator (i.e., one 
that has no elements, as written above) isn't valid or useful?   Or that as 
written above doesn't make such a generator?




From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 22 18:42:21 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:42:21 -0800
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
In-Reply-To: <cDyD9.43308$744.1553979@news1.tin.it>
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <mailman.1037996971.11725.python-list@python.org> <cDyD9.43308$744.1553979@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <200211222342.PAA10255@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Friday 22 November 2002 14:57, Alex Martelli wrote:

> perhaps a slightly better expression of the same idea might be...
>
> _xMax = []
> for -whatever-:
>   -big calculation leading to a value of x-
>   _xMax = [max([x]+_xMax)]
>   xMax = _xMax[0]

Thanks.  I knew if I posted this, someone would follow up with an improved 
way of doing it (I didn't like the .append() myself, and overlooked list 
concatenation).   Note that I put the 'xMax' assignment in the loop (assuming 
that's what the original poster required); otherwise you can avoid typing 
'_xMax':

xMax = []
for -whatever-:
  -big calculation leading to a value of x-
  xMax = [max([x]+xMax)]
xMax = xMax[0]


-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From mark.charsley at REMOVE_THIS.radioscape.com  Thu Nov  7 13:01:00 2002
From: mark.charsley at REMOVE_THIS.radioscape.com (Mark Charsley)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:01 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: Asking a user for the root password and executing root only c  ommands...
References: <aq9vpp$gd7$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <memo.20021107180143.1228B@a.radioscape.com>

In article <aq9vpp$gd7$0 at 216.39.172.122>, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) 
wrote:

> >> but by default any doorknob rattler could kick it off with 
> > ctrl-alt-del
> >> without being asked for a password. Not a cool default config IMO ;-/
> >
> >Thus providing anyone with accesss to the console's power switch a 
> more >computer-friendly way of rebooting a locked-up machine than 
> power-cycling >it.
> It's a bit too friendly for my taste ;-) I accidentally did it too many 
> times,
> because I am used to the the keying pattern to get past the locking 
> screensaver
> on my NT box, so when I turn to the linux box I just do the same if I 
> am at all
> distracted.

Ah I thought you were arguing that the three fingered salute resetting a 
linux box was a security hole. 

IMO it's at least as valid to complain about win32 changing the meaning of 
C-A-D from "reset the machine" as it is to complain about linux 
maintaining that meaning.

Mark


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 15 12:07:45 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Löwis)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:07:45 +0100
Subject: BUG URLLIB2
References: <3DD43DA7.5070004@libero.it>
Message-ID: <ar39ks$dqv$05$1@news.t-online.com>

"bart" <e_viola at libero.it> wrote in message
news:3DD43DA7.5070004 at libero.it...
> I'm an italian student and my problem consists about urllib2; urlopen
> function, sometimes, give me old (and inexactly) url because the site
> has moved in a new location but urlopen  doesn't undestand it and
return
> 403 error FORBIDDEN.

That's not a bug in urllib2; google.it is *really* returning 403
FORBIDDEN.
It appears that this google behaviour is triggered by the header

User-agent: Python-urllib/2.0a1

that urllib2 sends, which, in turn, suggests that Google explicitly bans
urllib2.
Complain to them.

Regards,
Martin



From rcanderso at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  6 15:14:44 2002
From: rcanderso at yahoo.com (rcandersonmn)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 12:14:44 -0800
Subject: Zope CMF problem
Message-ID: <4c0586a2.0211061214.2bb684dd@posting.google.com>

We have setup a new Zope/CMF site with hopes of testing the
capabilities of CMF.  We are having trouble logging into user-accounts
setup with the role of reviewer.  After entering user name, password,
and hitting submit - the screen redirects back to the login screen
with no error statement about bad user name or password.

This seems to be a problem out of the box.  

Any advice would be welcomed.

-Ryan


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov  4 11:01:19 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:01:19 GMT
Subject: problem's with strings
References: <Xns92BCAA1CFC4D0richardmertenswolfio@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <jRwx9.85744$TD1.3905656@news2.tin.it>

Richard Mertens wrote:

> first problem:
> 
> I'd like to convert a text-file von unix to windows and vice versa
> 
> Do you know a solution for this
> 
> 
> When the python script is reading the text-file i have always the Nextline
> - Character on the end. How do you I remove it?

When you open a file without specifying whether it's text or
binary, Python considers it text by default.  "text" means
that: when reading, the platform-typical line termination
combination (\n on Unix, \r on Mac, \r\n on Windows) gets
changed into a single line-termination character \n -- when
writing, each line-termination character \n gets changed into
the platform-typical like termination combination, as above.

Use 'rb' (for reading) or 'wb' (for writing) as the second
argument to built-in function open if you want to open a file
as binary, i.e., without any translation being effected, on
neither reading nor writing, to any line-termination character
or combination of characters.

Note therefore than:
-- opening with options 'rb' or 'wb' is the only way to get
   identical behavior, for a file seen as a given sequence
   of bytes, independently of what platform you're running on;
-- on Unix, there is no difference in behavior whether you
   open a file as text or binary (because \n is both the
   conventional line-termination character, AND the way in
   which line termination is indicated in Unix text files).

You don't mention the Macintosh, therefore I assume you are
only interested in Unix and Windows platforms.

One way to read a file (no matter whether it's using Unix
or Windows conventions) into a list of strings, one per line,
is for example as follows:

lines = open('thefile','rb').read().replace('\r','').splitlines()

the .replace part removes any carriage returns that might be
in the file, leaving \n as the separator between lines; the
.splitlines then forms a list of strings, one per lines (without
the line-separators; if you want the \n separator to be left
at the end of each string, call .splitlines(1) instead of just
.splitlines() at the end).

This is only suitable if your file is small enough to fit quite
comfortably in memory, of course.


Similarly, given a list of lines, one per string and without
line termination character, to write them out as a Unix-format
text file, whatever platform you're running on:

open('thefile','wb').write('\n'.join(lines))

and to write them as a Windows-format text files instead:

open('thefile','wb').write('\r\n'.join(lines))


Many other approaches can be preferable depending on several
parameters of which you don't inform us, such as -- what
platform[s] is/are your script[s] running on, are the files
too huge to fit in memory comfortably all at once, do you
know when you're reading/writing a textfile in Windows/Unix
format and running on what platform[s] or must you be
prepared for any eventuality, and so on.  I trust that the
information in this post can be of help to you in any case.


Alex




From bebert at tiscali.dk  Fri Nov 22 17:58:40 2002
From: bebert at tiscali.dk (Bjarke Dahl Ebert)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:58:40 +0100
Subject: Iteration of strings
Message-ID: <DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489@news010.worldonline.dk>

When writing small scripts in Python, I often make the same error:

Some function expects a list of strings, and does something like
    for elem in thestringlist: ...

Often, this function is somehow called with a string, instead of a list of
strings.
This is unfortunate, because in a sense, a string is also a list of strings!
I.e.,
    for x in strlist: print repr(x)

will print the eight strings:
    "A"
    " "
    "s"
    "t"
    "r"
    "i"
    "n"
    "g"

if I happen to pass "A string" in as parameter 'strlist'.


I started wondering if is anything to do about it. So I made a small
analysis of the ways in which a string looks like a container of strings.

 - len(X) will return the number of elements (which are also strings)
 - X[i] will return the i'th element - a string.
 - iter(X) will iterate over characters (i.e., strings).
 - and therefore, the 'for' construct will accept a string to iterate over.
 - In a sense, X[i:j] will even look like the list [X[i]...X[j-1]] of
strings.

Of these, I consider "iter(mystring)" to be the biggest problem in practice.
In many ways, 'ABC' works just like ['A', 'B', 'C'], when I would rather
think of 'ABC' as an atom.

Possible "fixes":
 - Make iter("abc") a TypeError. Since iter(X) iterates over anything that
implements the X[i] protocol, 'str' would probably have to implement the
iterator-protocol by raising a TypeError. The iter(str) feature could be
replaced by a more explicit str.iterchars() if one really wants to iterate
over the characters.
 - Or at least make iter(str) issue a warning (optionally)
 - (more radical:) Make a distinct char type with the following properties:
    - doesn't work in arithmetic expressions (because characters are not
numbers)
    - doesn't work in string concatenation, without explicit str(mychar)
   A string should then of course be a char container, instead of
effectively a container of strings.

I like the first best. The last has the drawback of still allowing
    for s in strlist: ..."%s"%s
 when strlist is a string.

I think the current situation makes the described script bug ("for x in
strlist:" when strlist is a string) pass too silently. Often it results in
code that "works", because a string is effectively also a list of strings.

What do you think?


Kind regards,
Bjarke







From bloke at ii.net  Sun Nov  3 11:39:43 2002
From: bloke at ii.net (Rob Hall)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 00:39:43 +0800
Subject: pyqt rules
Message-ID: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

Well I've been tinkering with pyqt for a few days now.  I must say it is
excellent.

Developing a gui takes next to no time!  And I love the signal/slot
mechanism.

Piec of cake!!


Rog




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Nov 19 10:39:14 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:39:14 GMT
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com> <pan.2002.11.19.13.54.54.356611@battleface.com>
Message-ID: <CWsC9.28249$744.1024358@news1.tin.it>

Alexander Sendzimir wrote:
   ...
> regexs = [
>     ( 'regex_id1', sre.compile( r'regex1' ) ),
>     ( 'regex_id2', sre.compile( r'regex2' ) ),
>     ( 'regex_id3', sre.compile( r'regex3' ) ),

Not sure why you're using sre here instead of re.  Anyway,
a MUCH faster way is to build a single RE pattern by:

    onerepat = '(' + ')|('.join([r.pattern for n, r in regexs]) + ')'
    onere = re.compile(onerepat)

of course, it would be even faster without that wasteful compile
to put the compiled-re into regexs followed by having to use the
r.pattern attribute to recover the starting pattern, but anyway...
Then, bind matchobj = onere.match(line) and check matchobj.lastindex.

This doesn't work if the patterns define groups of their own, but
a slightly more sophisticated approach can help -- use _named_
groups for the join...


Akex



From jef.mangelschots at iname.com  Fri Nov 15 22:04:17 2002
From: jef.mangelschots at iname.com (Jef Mangelschots)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 03:04:17 GMT
Subject: redirecting output from spawned processes
References: <3dd53e37.86527109@news.genuity.net> <mailman.1037392166.5937.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dd5b449.116753437@news.genuity.net>

I know about os.system() and have done that.

I use this to run some long duration processing command-line tools
which I run overnight. I used os.system() for this, for wich I
redirected the output to a log-file.

But I noticed repeatedly in the morning that my script misteriously
stopped in the middle of processing.

I had the impression that running these tools from os.system()
somehow messes up things.

I was hoping that spawn() would keep my running process intact, even
if the called processes fail somehow.

But then it was not obvious to me how to redirect output from my
process to a log-file.




On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:28:09 -0800, Trent Mick
<trentm at ActiveState.com> wrote:

>[Jef Mangelschots wrote]
>> How do I redirect the output of 'someapp' to the file log_file ?
>> 
>> 
>>            log_file = 'c:\output.log'
>> 
>>            os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, 'some_app', 'p1', 'p2')
>
>A couple of ways:
>
>    os.system("someapp > %s" % log_file)
>
>or:
>
>    # get the output
>    fout = os.popen(someapp)
>    output = fout.read()
>    fout.close()
>
>    # then write it to your file
>    flog = open(log_file, 'w')
>    flog.write(output)
>    flog.close()
>
>I think you want the former though. To redirect stderr as well you need
>to do a little bit more work:
>
>    os.system("someapp > %s 2>&1" % log_file)
>
>or:
>
>    ... look at os.popen3()
>
>
>Cheers,
>Trent
>
>-- 
>Trent Mick
>TrentM at ActiveState.com
>



From wilk-spamout at flibuste.net  Sat Nov 30 04:53:04 2002
From: wilk-spamout at flibuste.net (William)
Date: 30 Nov 2002 10:53:04 +0100
Subject: catch output of threads
References: <87of88723i.fsf@flibuste.net> <mailman.1038604242.13654.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87u1hz75a7.fsf@flibuste.net>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> writes:

> You can make sys.stdout an object which uses thread.get_ident() to do
> "something special" with data written depending on what thread wrote it.

Thanks, really brilliant idea !

> 
> "ThreadedOutputThing" just prefixes all lines of output with the
> thread ID.  "ThreadedOuputThing2" creates files that contain the PID
> and TID.  TOT2 keeps a cache of open file objects, but never has more
> than ten open at once.
> 
> You could do other things, depending on your needs.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> import sys, thread, time, os
> 
> class ThreadedOutputThing:
>     def __init__(self, f = sys.stdout):
>         self.f = f
> 
>     def write(self, s):
>         i = thread.get_ident()
>         print >>self.f, "Thread %5d: %r" % (i, s)
> 
> class ThreadedOutputThing2:
>     def __init__(self, b = "%d-%%d.out" % os.getpid(), of="a"):
>         self.b = b
>         self.of = of
>         self.d = {}
> 
>     def write(self, s):
>         i = thread.get_ident()
>         d = self.d
>         if not d.has_key(i):
>             if len(d) > 10:
>                 d.popitem()[1].close()
>             d[i] = open(self.b % i, self.of)
>         d[i].write(s)
> 
> def f():
>     print "In function f, thread %d" % thread.get_ident()
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     #sys.stdout = ThreadedOutputThing()
>     sys.stdout = ThreadedOutputThing2()
>     thread.start_new_thread(f, ())
>     thread.start_new_thread(f, ())
>     thread.start_new_thread(f, ())
>     time.sleep(1)
> 

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Thu Nov 28 17:33:28 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:33:28 +1300
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it> <3DE49BB7.80D199FB@jandecaluwe.com> <3DE592FC.6020101@something.invalid> <3DE5DDFB.ED92B656@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <3DE699B8.6040208@something.invalid>

Jan Decaluwe wrote:

> 
> PEP 254 is a piece of cake!
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0254.html


Oops, sorry, that should have been PEPS 252 and 253.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From nas at python.ca  Mon Nov 18 16:58:59 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:58:59 -0800
Subject: tempfile.mktemp() and symlink attacks
In-Reply-To: <arbkkp$51t$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <3ygu9.105734$La5.330766@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <arbkkp$51t$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20021118215859.GA8058@glacier.arctrix.com>

Aahz wrote:
> [I'm reposting this because nobody followed up to it.  I tried doing
> some research because I know there have been changed for Python 2.3, but
> I wasn't able to find the relevant posts on python-dev.]
> 
> In article <3ygu9.105734$La5.330766 at rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>,
> Kent Hu  <kenthu at kenNOSPAMthu.net> wrote:
> >Is using tempfile.mktemp() vulnerable to symlink attacks?

Yes.  mktemp() just gives you a name.  Someone nasty could create a
symlink with that name before you.  You should open the file using:

    os.open(name, os.O_RDWR|os.O_CREAT|os.O_EXCL, 0700)

tempfile.TemporaryFile already does this.  2.3 has a handy function
called mkstemp that returns a name and an open file descriptor. 

HTH,

  Neil 



From boud at valdyas.org  Sat Nov  2 05:14:39 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 11:14:39 +0100
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3dc3a6fd$0$84999$e4fe514c@dreader7.news.xs4all.nl>

Aahz wrote:

> So I've been having a friendly argument for a long time with a friend of
> mine who's a real Java booster.  The current iteration was sparked by a
> discussion of extreme programming, where along the way I repeated what
> some people here have mentioned about Python being easier to refactor
> than Java.  She asked me what -- if any -- Java-based tools were used by
> the experienced Java programmers who made that claim.  She thinks that
> those tools are superior to plain text editors (which are really all
> that's needed for Python).
> 

I've tried the various Emacs packages for refactoring -- forgot the names --
java, and I didn't like it. With Java, refactoring is, for me, mostly a 
matter of renaming, moving stuff and deleting stuff. Jikes will tell me 
what to do next. Having the Antipatterns book helps in refactoring Java, 
too.

With Python, I'm using grep as my main refactoring tool -- but I'm trying 
really hard to get into the habit of using bicyclerepairman (from emacs), 
which seems superior the Java tools I have used.
-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From zimmermann.edv at t-online.de  Fri Nov 22 11:43:16 2002
From: zimmermann.edv at t-online.de (Bernd Zimmermann)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:43:16 +0100
Subject: ctypes and delphi dll
References: <aredbs$i4r6a$1@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de> <argvq1$ijund$1@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de> <wun7usok.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <arlmr6$k42qu$1@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de>

Thomas Heller wrote:

> Should ctypes support the pascal calling convention 'natively'?
> Maybe later...

Thank you for your work on ctypes and for picking up this issue,
Thomas.

Calling this Delphi DLL Procedure, declared as 'PASCAL', from
Visual C++ 6.0, I had to re-arrange the arguments too. So 'ctypes'
is in good company - and - compatible :-)

Bernd



From Robert_NJ_Sykes at msn.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 12:23:38 2002
From: Robert_NJ_Sykes at msn.co.uk (Rob Sykes)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 17:23:38 GMT
Subject: COM interfaces and inheritance
References: <Xns92CB6026FC70Brobjohnrichardcouk@192.168.0.246> <3DDA31DA.D230CCB8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92CBB0F0A9354robjohnrichardcouk@192.168.0.246>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in
news:3DDA31DA.D230CCB8 at hotmail.com: 

> Rob Sykes wrote:
> 
>> I'm having a problem with a (3rd party) IDispatch interface
> 
>> I'm struggling with the upcasting(?) - in Delphi there is
>> newBar := CreateFoo() as bar
>> 
>> What is the Python equivalent ?
> 
> There is no casting in python. All resolution of attribute and
> method names takes place at execution time. 

<slapping forehead>
I knew that, i knew that, i knew that
</slapping forehead>

It was being to forced to think in Delphi that threw me. The 'as'
operator works differently for COM objects (on the lines you have 
explained else-thread) than for bog-standard classes.

<snip>

Cheers,

-- 
Rob Sykes 

Born again Bairn                  | 'The despair I can live with.
rob at john-richard dot co dot uk |  It's the hope I can't stand'
(header email for spambots)       |  (Anon.)


From CousinStanley at HotMail.com  Wed Nov 13 19:03:50 2002
From: CousinStanley at HotMail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:03:50 -0700
Subject: calendar modules
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk> <slrnat4sfj.19g.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <7396d2b2.0211131136.160ee567@posting.google.com> <aquat8$l2q$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <aqup0n$dfa9a$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

|| I tried. But checking the day of the week I was born
|| didn't work. This calendar seems limited to >= 1970-01-01

It seems there is also a future limit ...

    ( 1970 , 01 )  <=  ( iYear , iMonth )  <=  ( 2038 , 01 )

Cousin Stanley






From costanza at web.de  Sun Nov 10 09:01:48 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:01:48 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqlos7$66p$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Michael Hudson wrote:

> Did you know that s-exps (i.e. the paren heavy Lisp we know today) was
> intended to be a temporary syntax, and that John McCarthy intended to
> develop a more familiar syntax for Lisp?  Somehow he never did --
> maybe because it turned out to be a bad idea?

He did. But the programmers who were already using Lisp didn't accept 
the new syntax. They preferred s-exps.


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 15:53:32 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:53:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <j60auu0ms3i8e3oihtfold855at9gnglfg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <as3bcc$ek5$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> wrote:
> One of Lisp's _lethal_ failings is that anyone not using Emacs (or
> something like Emacs) is a second class citizen. The decision to
> require a programmer to use a special editor is a fatal one.

But perhaps an unavoidable one.  This discussion has been quite
enlightening to me.  Despite all that I have read over the years,
including at least two serious attempts with what were said to be good
texts for learning Lisp, I have never before seen the true reason
Lisp's annoying parentheses-plagued syntax has persisted, let alone why
it might be worth putting up with.

So now it seems entirely reasonable that it would take a very
language-sensitive editor to make what is basically a representation of
compiler-internal parse trees readable by normal humans; likewise, I
can see why Lisp is so often generated or modified by other Lisp code -
after all, compilers use parse trees as an internal representation
exactly because they are convenient for programmatic transformations.

I'm not sure that knowing this will actually be of much use, should I
attempt to scale Lisp once again, but it might at least help allay the
frustration that has led me to abandon previous attempts.  OTOH, Emacs
is another thing off of which I have repeatedly bounced, so maybe it's
a lost cause.  :-/


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Nov 17 14:54:02 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:54:02 -0600
Subject: learning python and what i need ?help please
In-Reply-To: <20021117143159.08975.00000149@mb-fo.aol.com> (jaykay2199113223@aol.com's
 message of "17 Nov 2002 19:31:59 GMT")
References: <20021117143159.08975.00000149@mb-fo.aol.com>
Message-ID: <m23cq0t1k5.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Jaykay2199113223" == Jaykay2199113223  <jaykay2199113223 at aol.com> writes:

    Jaykay2199113223> hi there i need advice on what i need to begin
    Jaykay2199113223> to learn python,do i need to download a
    Jaykay2199113223> compiler,if so any preferences you could tell to
    Jaykay2199113223> use and anyother advise thanx stevie

Start here: http://python.org/doc/Newbies.html -- download links for
the python interpreter are here and lots of other newbie info

and here: http://python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html --the official
python tutorial

Good luck,
John Hunter



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sat Nov 23 20:14:21 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:14:21 +1100
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A77A@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Terry Reedy [mailto:tjreedy at udel.edu]
>
> mod editing.  I think GPG, for instance, blew it when they designed
> and implemented yet another scripting language for Dungeon Siege
> instead of using Python (and putting more work into the game itself).

Well, if you mean they blew it because they didn't have enough time to
produce and interesting game, then yes.

Dungeon Siege was one of the mos boring games I've ever tried to play. It is
one of the *very* few games I took back.

To the original poster - make games like Fallout 1/2 and Arcanum :)

Tim Delaney



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 12:43:03 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:43:03 GMT
Subject: Redirect question
References: <fa576652.0211170745.2328fe56@posting.google.com> <3DD7F71E.9050807@attglobal.net> <fa576652.0211210848.104a0093@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <HW8D9.37578$744.1351877@news1.tin.it>

Karsten Weinert wrote:

> Well, after solving my error in the Redirect class with all your help,
> I now encountered a new problem. Here is the program:
> 
> import sys, win32ui
> 
> class Redirect:
>   def __init__(self):
>     self.s=""
>   def write(self, s):
>     self.s+=s
>   def flush(self):
>     win32ui.MessageBox(self.s)
> 
> sys.stdout = Redirect()
> sys.stderr = Redirect()
> print 'Hidey Ho'
> print "Hidey hidey hidey ho"
> sys.stdout.flush() # is displayed
> # from here, no output is produced, e.g. no messagebox
> assert 1==0, "Impossible Assertion"
> sys.stderr.flush()
> 
> What am I doing wrong? Enclosing the assert statement with try/finally
> or try/except only displays an empty message box.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Karsten

The sys.stderr.flush call can never execute, since it follows a statement 
that raises an exception.

To follow in more detail what is happening, I suggest you add print calls 
(to sys.__stdout__ for example, to make sure they're going to get out) 
tracing the behaviour of self.s in Redirect's methods, and run the whole 
script via python.exe, not pythonw.exe, from a console (aka "Dos Box").


Alex



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Nov 21 18:36:08 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 00:36:08 +0100
Subject: To GC or not to GC?
References: <3DDD4751.9050807@nyc.rr.com> <m3bs4ieizl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3DDD5E90.8070500@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <m3y97mcx7b.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:

> Sorry, I looked at Python years ago and thought I saw /manual/ ref
> counting, but maybe that was just the stuff done by C code (which I
> understand is ineluctable).

Ah, yes. Refcounting in C code is still required from extension
writers; all alternatives to it would also require cooperation from
extension writers in some way.

There was never a need to do explicit refcounting in Python source
code.

Regards,
Martin


From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Wed Nov  6 11:44:06 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:44:06 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com>; from dnew@san.rr.com on Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 04:31:10PM +0000
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20021106174406.W30315@prim.han.de>

Darren New wrote:
> Robin Becker wrote:
> > Funnily enough they kept telling me that as soon as I switched to
> > F99/C++ etc etc that everything would be portable.
> 
> Your confusion is in thinking that "portable" is a binary value. Fortran
> was certainly more portable than assembler, as was C. Tcl is certainly
> more portable than Fortran or C. 
> 
> The other problem, of course, is that people keep improving their
> capabilities, so what was portable is no longer adequate. Fortran is
> quite portable, as long as you don't want to do 3D graphics driven by a
> data glove.
> 
> As long as you don't want to do development in multiple languages or
> dynamically load code safely over the net into some other OS process,
> Tcl and Python are pretty good choices. Otherwise, you might want to
> consider C# or Java. 

you can "dynamically load code safely over the net into some other OS process"
with python, too.  Where do you see the problem?  

with the other point (developing in multiple languages) i fully agree.
Although C/C++ and Java seem to be pretty well integratable with python.

I wonder if it would be possible to modify/extend the python-VM to allow for
"efficient" execution of C#.  We would be set, then, wouldn't we? 

regards,

    holger



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Wed Nov 27 23:23:44 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:23:44 -0800
Subject: if <assignment>:
In-Reply-To: <20021128040602.16994.73970.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021128040602.16994.73970.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18HGFg-0002tN-00@conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Wednesday 27 November 2002 08:06 pm,  Greg Ewing wrote:
> maney at pobox.com wrote:
> >?Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> >>proof that the language is broken in that area. We don't say, "Is Tuesday 
> >>today?" or "Is 5 your age?", either. :)
> >?Is it Tuesday today?
 
> But these sound *really* odd:
> 
> ? ?Is Tuesday it today?
> 
> ? ?Tuesday is it.
> 
> Some people insist that the verb "to be" should take
> the same case before and after, e.g. "I am he" and
> not "I am him". But I offer these as evidence that,
> in English at least, this verb is NOT symmetrical!

Reminds me of Japanese class -- the distinction between
"Is Tuesday today?" and "Is today Tuesday?" is significant by
what it contrasts against -- are you asking if "today" is
Tuesday or some other day, OR if "Tuesday" is today or
some other day (such as "tomorrow").  Suppose the answer
is negative and explained -- the answer to the first question
might be "No, Tuesday is the day after tomorrow." while the
answer to the second is "No, today is Sunday."  The first sounds
odd taken out of context, because the second is more
common.  On the other hand, if you know something bad
is going to happen on Tuesday, you might ask the question
in the first form.

It reminds me of Japanese, because that's one of the main
differences between "topic" and "subject" -- different particles
are used, and it's very confusing for an English-speaker. But
the same information is carried in word order here. Hmm. 

Japanese is also an SOV language like German -- I always
wondered if reverse-polish notation made more sense to
SOV language speakers, since arguably their native language
works that way (certainly infix makes more sense to me, and
that's analogous to SVO which is what English is.  (Usually ;-))).

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From plusk at radford.edu  Sun Nov  3 15:08:36 2002
From: plusk at radford.edu (Paul D. Lusk)
Date: 3 Nov 2002 20:08:36 GMT
Subject: __coerce__ called for dict keys?
References: <apfe0g$o3p$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <m27kg09hj2.fsf@python.net> <3DC02BC8.5020902@NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> <Xns92B7939E346B6ID134675userdfncisd@130.133.1.4> <aq3gfq$356$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92BB99DCFFFBEID134675userdfncisd@130.133.1.4>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in news:aq3gfq$356$1 at panix1.panix.com:

> In article <Xns92B7939E346B6ID134675userdfncisd at 130.133.1.4>,
> Paul D. Lusk <plusk at radford.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> I think you need __eq__ rather than __cmp__ in 2.2
> 
> Nope.  __eq__ gets called before __cmp__, but __cmp__ gets called if
> __eq__ isn't defined.  See PEP 207.

Aahz is, of course, correct. The reason I thought you needed __eq__ was 
because I was using a str subclass that I had created. I'd adapted it from 
something that been posted here. It had __cmp__ defined, but not __eq__,
and I got _interesting_ results when I tried to use it as dict key. You do 
need _eq_ if your parent class defines __eq_.

Paul


From karl at elemtech.com  Wed Nov 13 13:56:29 2002
From: karl at elemtech.com (Karl G. Merkley)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:56:29 -0700
Subject: python, Qt and HOOPS 3D
Message-ID: <3DD2A05D.5050007@elemtech.com>

I am looking for the python bindings for the HOOPS-Qt widget.
Has anybody done this?  Is anyone willing to share?  If not
does someone have any pointers on how to go about doing this?

I've been playing around with swig but haven't had any luck making
it work yet.

Thanks,
	Karl



From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Nov 14 17:36:26 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:36:26 -0600
Subject: os.system and wget
In-Reply-To: <3DD3B50D.C6A6BA8B@felis.uni-freiburg.de> (Joerg Woelke's
 message of "Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:37:01 +0100")
References: <7d728336.0211130756.3e39a748@posting.google.com>
	<m2isz1e84k.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<3DD3B50D.C6A6BA8B@felis.uni-freiburg.de>
Message-ID: <m27kffsrrp.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Joerg" == Joerg Woelke <dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de> writes:

    >> h = os.popen('wget -q -O foo1.txt http://foo.html') h.close()

    Joerg> What for, if you don't do anything (read/write) with the
    Joerg> pipe?  That's what os.system is for.

Not a good reason -- just a guess on my part.  I tried the example
code with popen and it worked (for me), and thought that perhaps
calling the close method before trying to open the file would insure
that the system process had completed before he tried to read the
resultant file.

It appears that the OP has something funny going on with his system,
since both the popen and system approaches work fine on my system....

>> import os
>>> os.unlink('test1.dat')
>>> os.unlink('test2.dat')
>>> os.system('wget -q -O test1.dat html://foo.html')
256
>>> print 'test1: ', os.path.exists('test1.dat')
test1:  1
>>> h = os.popen('wget -q -O test2.dat html://foo.html')
>>> h.close()
256
>>> print 'test2: ', os.path.exists('test2.dat')
test2:  1

John Hunter



From ygingras at eclipsys.qc.ca  Fri Nov 29 17:28:10 2002
From: ygingras at eclipsys.qc.ca (Yannick Gingras)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:28:10 -0500
Subject: tempfile.mktemp() and symlink attacks
References: <3ygu9.105734$La5.330766@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <arbkkp$51t$1@panix1.panix.com> <slrnauago6.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <_RRF9.7694$cx4.1304051@news20.bellglobal.com>

Robin Munn wrote:

>>>Is using tempfile.mktemp() vulnerable to symlink attacks?  The reason I
>>>ask is that the documentation for os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam() has
>>>warnings about symlink attacks, but the documentation for
>>>tempfile.mktemp() does
>>>not.  Also, running os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam() actually brings a
>>>RuntimeWarning, while I tried comparing the implementations, but couldn't
>>>find the source for os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam() in os.py (I'm using
>>>version 2.2.1).

I was about to post to report the vulnerability.

tempfile.mktemp() is REALLY vulnerable to symlink attacks.  
The default behaviour of tempfile.mktemp() is to return 
something close to 
"%s" % ( os.path.join( os.environ['TEMPDIR'],
         "@%d.%d" % (os.getpid(), num_mktemp_call) ) )
hummm... not as readable as I expected.  Supose a process with 
pid 2344 with the environement variable TEMPDIR set to /tmp 
call tempfile.mktemp() 3 time, it will receive :
/tmp/@2344.0
/tmp/@2344.1
/tmp/@2344.2
the file names are easy to guess and I don't know a way to
make file() fail if the file already exists.  
tempfile.mktemp() will not return a filename already present
on the system but by the time you open it, a symlink may have
been set.

There is an optional argument to tempfile.mktemp() that can
help you make the filename harder to guess but you still
can't tell if the file have been created by the time you open
it.

ex. : 
rnd = Random(time.time())
filename = tempfile.mktemp("%d%d%d" % ( rnd.randrange(100000),
                                        rnd.randrange(100000),
                                        rnd.randrange(100000) ))
In this form, the filename will be appended a large number of 
random digits.  But still, the attacker may understand the 
pattern and do an infinit number of retry until he guess the 
right filename ans you have (as far as I know) no way to 
detect if file() create the file or if it open an existing 
file.

-- 
Yannick Gingras
Coder for OBB : Oratorical Boyish Bozeman
http://OpenBeatBox.org



From grante at visi.com  Mon Nov 18 15:20:34 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 20:20:34 GMT
Subject: Serial Port
References: <mailman.1037306122.3207.python-list@python.org> <3dd47570$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net> <3dd514e8$0$4448$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <arahhn$urd$1@news.netpower.no> <3dd90d82$0$22206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <arbglm$h7n$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <3dd94b92$0$22202$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <arbglm$h7n$1 at news.netpower.no>, David Brown wrote:

>> > You don't normally have so many serial ports open at a time
>> > that the threading overhead is significant,
>>
>> I don't?  I usually limit my test cases to 32 ports if
>> possible, but on occasion have to use 100+ ports.
> 
> Ok, correction - *I* don't normally have that many ports open
> at a time.  I thought I was unusual in having 6 serial ports on
> my PC...  Out of curiosity, what is the application?

My employer sells serial ports, so it varies.

The current problem I'm dealing with was reported by a customer
who's using some homegrown SCADA software (Win32 host, written
in C) to monitor some sort of power plant monitoring stuff.
They're probably talking to a bunch of PLCs or something like
that.  

Other customers talk to large banks of modems, cash registers,
barcode scanners, video production equipment, etc.

I normally work on Linux drivers and the code inside the
Ethernet attached devices.  Python is awfully handy for
generating little test apps that do various strange things with
serial ports.  I've found I can usually slap together something
analogous to the customer app that demonstrates the problem in
Python way faster than I could get a C program running.
Especially since I don't have a C compiler for Win32 :)


>> I use threads a lot for serial communications too.  Sometimes
>> one-thread-per-port isn't what is required.
>
> I sounds like I've been trying to help with the wrong problem,
> and I don't think I can be of much help to the real problem.
> Good luck!

It turns out this problem didn't really have anything to do
with overlapping I/O.  Sync I/O with a thread-per-port worked
just fine: IOW, it failed in the way I wanted it to fail :).
This time the bug was caused by calling PurgeComm while the
reply was being received, and it would have eventually failed
the same way with w/o overlapped I/O.

But, one starts out trying to do things the same way the
customer does...

When you start messing with stuff like overlapped I/O you can
really see the VMS heritage of NT.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  "THE LITTLE PINK
                                  at               FLESH SISTERS," I saw them
                               visi.com            at th' FLUROESCENT BULB
                                                   MAKERS CONVENTION...


From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Tue Nov 19 06:49:53 2002
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 03:49:53 -0800
Subject: A Minimal Python Distribution
References: <XzlC9.5643$fY3.601121@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <33803989.0211190349.37b5fb52@posting.google.com>

Hello Rod,
> We are thinking of using python as the language for prescribing a tool to
> install new firmware in our customers development boards.
> 
> We want existing users of our boards to quickly download the installer (and
> firmware to be installed) from our website onto a PC, then connect their
> boards and update. (The firmware is a few 100K max).
> 
> We found that the complete python distribution is too big to do this kind of
> thing.... our customers are hardware guys who probably will (alas) never use
> python themselves, want to rapidly download the firmware and won't want
> python appearing in their "start menu".
> 
> Is there a recognized minimal/subset of python that we could start from that
> would be a short download for them, but provide the features we need?
Why not use py2exe (http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/)
or installer (http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html)?

HTH.
Miki.


From andrew.thompson at ashecastle.com  Tue Nov 12 14:02:57 2002
From: andrew.thompson at ashecastle.com (Andrew Thompson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:02:57 -0000
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D5F352@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <002601c28a7e$1df5de00$4802a8c0@blair>

How about solving the series analytically...

map( lambda n:
5.0**-0.5*(((1+5**0.5)/2)**n-((1-5**0.5)/2)**n),range(1,99) )

Ok - tiny rounding errors -- but can remove those easily.




-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]
On Behalf Of sismex01 at hebmex.com
Sent: 12 November 2002 15:28
To: wganz at texoma.net; a_human_work at hotmail.com; python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?


> From: Will Ganz [mailto:wganz at texoma.net]
> 

I didn't want to participate in this thread, but the main comment in
this note gave me pause.

> :> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find
> :> fibanicci series in a single line of code.


As for your friend, ask him to cross a "one-liner"
equivalent of a bridge, some shoddy, barely-holding-together
piece of dubious engineering.  Software is the same thing,
and should be raised to the same standards of quality as
any other piece of engineering, but that's just my opinion.


> Perl is like some of the doctor's writing that I try to 
> decipher at the hospital. Great for writing prescriptions
> but invoke divine intervention to read more than a couple
> of sentences. In fact, doctors will ask nurses to interpret
> other doctor's writings to read the progress notes.*


Same thing here in Mexico; the most responsible doctors
I know either write their prescriptions out with a typewriter
or on a computer, or dictate them to their nurse or assistant,
whom invariably has much nicer writing.


> The same with Perl. One liners and anything less than 100
> lines you can do in Perl, but get Python for anything that
> you are going to have to maintain later. After having dealt
> with 15000 line Perl 'programs' with all global variables
> and documented solely by "self documenting variable names"
> (?quick, what is the difference in $filedate, $FileDate, and 
> $Filedate?) Python is quite the relief to use.


The "author" of such a horror should be shot and forgotten,
for inflicting that kind of pain and cost on others.


> * estimated 45,00~>98,000 Americans die annually from 
>   medication errors v.s. 15,980 Americans murdered
>   in the year 2001


And I suppose, everywhere else in the world.

It seems like people, in this case doctors, really don't
understand that something as simple as writing out an
unreadable prescription is as life-threatening as any
disease.  Can this be grounds for a medical-negligence
suite?

-gustavo

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 20 04:59:47 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:59:47 GMT
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com> <pan.2002.11.19.13.54.54.356611@battleface.com> <CWsC9.28249$744.1024358@news1.tin.it> <pan.2002.11.19.22.58.58.67571@battleface.com>
Message-ID: <n2JC9.30839$744.1139538@news1.tin.it>

Alexander Sendzimir wrote:

> 
> # Alex, the reason I used sre is because I feel it is the right module to
> # use with Python 2.2.2. Re is a wrapper. However, my knowledge in this
> # area is limited and could stand to be corrected.

sre is an implementation detail, not even LISTED among the modules at:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/modindex.html

Depending on an implementation detail, not documented except for a
mention in an "implementation note" in the official Python docs, seems
a weird choice to me -- and I'm not sure what other knowledge except
what can easily be obtained by a cursory scan of Python's docs is
needed to show that.


> # I should have stated in my last post, that if speed is an issue,
> # then I might not be coding in Python but rather a language that
> # compiles to a real processor and not a virtual machine.

If you had mentioned that, I would have noticed that this is anything but 
obvious when regular expression matching is a substantial part of the
computational load: when the process is spending most of its time in the re 
engine, the quality of said engine may well dominate other performance
issues.  That's quite an obvious thing, of course.


> # I will say that what I don't like about the approach you propose is that
> # it throws information away. Functionally, it leads to brittle code which
> # is hard to maintain and can lead to errors which are very hard to track
> # down if one is not familiar with the implementation.

I suspect it would be possible to construct utteances with which I
could disagree more thoroughly than I disagree with this one, but
it would take some doing.  I think that, since re patterns support
the | operator, making use of that operator "throws away" no 
information whatsoever and hence introduces no brittleness.


> # This now said, yours is definitely a fast approach and under the right
> # circumstances would be very useful. In my experience, clear writing
> # takes precedence over clever implementation (most of the time). There
> # are exceptions.

I do agree with this, and I think my coding is quite clear for
anybody with a decent grasp of regular expressions -- and people
WITHOUT such a grasp should simply stay away from RE's (for
production use) until they've acquired said grasp.


> # As for the code itself, the lastindex method counts groups. If
> # there are groups within any of the regular expressions defined, then

Really?! Oh, maybe THAT was why I had this in my post:

> This doesn't work if the patterns define groups of their own

which you didn't even have the decency to *QUOTE*?!  Cheez... are
you so taken up with the "cleverness" of reducing your posts'
readability by making most of them into comments, that ordinary
conventions of Usenet, such as reading what you're responding to,
and quoting relevant snippets, are forgotten...?!

> # lastindex is non-linear with respect to the intended expressions.
> # So, it becomes very difficult to determine which outermost expression
> # lastindex refers to. Perhaps you can see the maintenance problems
> # arising here?

No, I always say "this doesn't work" when referring to something
I can't see *ANY* problems with -- doesn't everybody?  [Not even
worth an emoticon, and I can't find one for "sneer", anyway...]

> # I've labelled the groups below for reference.

If instead of "labeling" in COMMENTS, you took the tiny trouble
of studying the FUNDAMENTALS of Python's regular expressions, and
named groups in particular, you might be able to see how to "label"
*IN THE EXPRESSION ITSELF*.  As I continued in my post which you
didn't bother quoting,

> a slightly more sophisticated approach can help -- use named
> groups for the join...

I may as well complete this (even though, on past performance,
you may simply ignore this, not quote anything, and post a
"huge comment" re-saying what I already said -- there MIGHT be
some more normal people following this thread...:-): if the
re-patterns you're joining may in turn contain named groups,
you need to make the outer grouping naming unique, by any of
the usual "naming without a namespace" idioms such as unique
prefixing.  Usual generality/performance tradeoffs also apply.

Most typically, documenting that the identifiers the user
passes must not be ALSO used as group names in the patterns
the user also passes will be sufficient -- doing things by
sensible convention rather than by mandated fiat is Pythonic.

In many cases it may not be a problem for client code to avoid
using groups in the RE patterns, and then the trivially simple
solution I gave last time works -- if you want, you can check
whether that's the case, via len(mo.groups()) where mo is the
match object you get, and fallback to the more sophisticated
approach, or raise a suitable exception, etc, otherwise.

In some other cases client code may not only need to have no
constraints against using groups in the RE patterns, but also
want "the match-object" as an argument to the action code.  In
this case, an interesting approach is to synthesize a polymorphic
equivalent of the match object that would result without the
or-joining of the original patterns -- however, the tradeoffs
in terms of complication, performance, and generality, are a bit 
different in this case.


> # (abcd(cd){1,4})|(abcd)|(abcd(cd)?)|(ab)|(zh192)
> # 1    2          3      4    5      6    7
> 
> # As you can see some expressions are 'identified' by more than one
> # group. This is not desirable and is difficult to maintain. If you

Nope, that's not a problem at all -- the re module deals just
fine with nested groups.  The issue is, rather, that since group
_numbering_ is flat, i.e. ignores nesting, the group numbers
corresponding to the outer-grouping depend on what othe groups
are used in the caller-supplied re patterns.  Identifying which
is the widest (thus from the outermost set of groups) group that
participated in the match is easy (go backwards from lastindex
0 or more steps to the last group that participated in the match)
but unless you've associated a name with that group it's then
non-trivial to recover the associated outer-identifier.


Alex



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sun Nov 24 18:12:08 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:12:08 -0800
Subject: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <9PvekLArvL49Ewa2@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <arqrso$b2j$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <8cmrra.qvc.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

maney at pobox.com fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 24 November 
2002 07:40 am:

> 
> ### revised test with filtering
> from time import time
> 
> n = 1000000
> N = xrange(n)
> 
> t0 = time()
> S=[]
> a = S.append
> for x in N:
>     if x % 2 == 1:
>         a(str(x))
> print 'for loop took %.2f to make a list of %d items' % ((time()-t0),
> len(S))
> 
> del S
> t0 = time()
> S = [str(x) for x in N if x % 2 == 1]
> print 'list comprehension took %.2f to make a list of %d items' %
> ((time()-t0), len(S))
> 
> del S
> t0 = time()
> S = map(str,filter(lambda x: x % 2 == 1, N))
> print 'map took %.2f to make a list of %d items' % ((time()-t0),
> len(S))
> ###
> 
        <snip>

> Okay, that's enough for now.

        Well, to add some more embers... Two runs under Mandrake 8.2, on a 
733MHz P-III with RDRAM (Dell XPS B733r), Python 2.2, using the program 
listed above.

[wulfraed at beastie wulfraed]$ python t.py
for loop took 7.61 to make a list of 500000 items
list comprehension took 7.30 to make a list of 500000 items
map took 6.84 to make a list of 500000 items
[wulfraed at beastie wulfraed]$ python t.py
for loop took 7.61 to make a list of 500000 items
list comprehension took 7.31 to make a list of 500000 items
map took 6.85 to make a list of 500000 items

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov  5 20:56:53 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:56:53 -0800
Subject: Str and instance concatanation error
References: <R_Cx9.11472$t91.80221380@news-text.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <5ts9qa.io3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Newt fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 04 November 2002 03:01 pm:

> 
> This occurs in a class module (called globals.py). This is used to
> hold all my global variables, and also has a method (called save_char)
> to write these to a file.
>
        Is it just me, or does the use of the name "globals" strike a chord... 
Especially since the builtin function globals() already exists to 
return the global environment as a dictionary.


-- 
--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From ark at research.att.com  Wed Nov  6 15:27:28 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:27:28 GMT
Subject: Long overflow problem
References: <bondpaper-55CDDD.13105906112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <yu99n0oml9zj.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Tom> If I call the function as such: myFunc(2382373743L, 2382772391L), I get 
Tom> the following error:

Tom> OverflowError: Long int too long to convert to int. 

Tom> I can't seem to get myFunc to understand that i and j are long integers. 
Tom> How would I go about doing this?

It looks like myFunc is trying to do something with one of its
arguments that requires an int and will not accept a long.
Without seeing what myFunc does, it's hard to know what that
operation might be.

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From zoltan at trados.com  Thu Nov 14 04:11:30 2002
From: zoltan at trados.com (Zoltan Sekeres)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:11:30 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3lm3xqh92.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3DD368C2.9040205@trados.com>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> Certainly - but then we need entirely new tools (or must modify
> existing tools). Have you ever tried to modify Norman Walsh's DocBook
> XSLT stylesheets? That may be an excellent piece of software, but it
> has a complexity that is not easy to grasp (to put it mildly).

IMHO the good thing about DocBook is that it is very modular and you can
start using it without knowing the internals. You can approach it step
by step while being productive from day one.

I have started using DocBook (XML version, XSLT transformation to HTML)
last year and had no clue about XSLT. You can set various parameters and
when you use a CSS stylesheet the HTML looks great. Actually I started
out extending DocBook, but it turned out, that I could achieve my goal
just by specifying parameters.

I was disappointed about the lacking support for other targets like PDF
and FO, but that was last year and I should check again ...

-- 
Zoltan



From gleki at gol.ge  Tue Nov 26 09:47:20 2002
From: gleki at gol.ge (Giorgi Lekishvili)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:47:20 +0100
Subject: KDEvelpo 3.0 & Python
Message-ID: <3DE38978.2B4F502A@gol.ge>

Hi all!

Has anybody tested KDevelop3 alpha working with Python?

TIA,
Giorgi



From martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi  Sat Nov 23 22:00:47 2002
From: martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi (Martti Halminen)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 05:00:47 +0200
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DE040DF.EACC7D3A@kolumbus.fi>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:

> Of coure LOOP and FORMAT affect newcomers! They are extremely commonly used
> constructs, so you will encounter them quite frequently in other people's
> code. And even simple uses of LOOP can easily yield misunderstanding unless
> you have some fairly good understanding of what it does (the emulation of
> plain English is additionally deceptive in this regard):
> 
>      (loop for x below 5 for y = nil then x collect (list x y))
>           => ((0 nil) (1 1) (2 2) (3 3) (4 4))
> 
> as opposed to:
> 
>      (loop for x below 5 and y = nil then x collect (list x y))
>           => ((0 nil) (1 0) (2 1) (3 2) (4 3))

If it is any consolation, neither LOOP nor FORMAT were noncontroversial
in the Lisp community when they appeared, mostly due to their
"non-lispy" look and feel. There are some notable Lispers, like Paul
Graham, who don't usually use LOOP.
FORMAT is nearly-universally used, though somebody claimed that it is a
separate, Turing-complete programming language in its own right:-)
- LOOP isn't the only iteration construct: I use usually DOTIMES, DOLIST
or the mapping functions for simple cases. The old DO also exists for
oldtimers.

> Hmm, I thought untyped means that variables don't have any type associated
> with them at all (like in assembler).

In CL, the variables may contain any type of objects, but any piece of
data has a known type (unlike in C, where you can cast stuff however you
like, whether it makes any sense or not).

> > Well, the battle was decided (temporarily?) in favor of static languages
> > during the long decades before systems routinely shipped with ghz processors
> > and hundreds mb ram. By the time those systems came along, almost everyone was
> > using static languages. Folks don't change easily, so CL still does not get
> > used widely.
> 
> This explanation has the considerable problem that it would equally have
> predicted the miserable failure of Perl, Python, Javascript and I'd guess
> Visual Basic.

Except that those are rather new languages in comparision, from a time
the machine performance had already risen to acceptable values. For
comparision, at the time Lisp Machines were the fastest workstations on
the planet, they had clock frequencies like 4 MHz. The competition ran
16 MHz Motorola 68020:s.
(Cray 1 had 80 MHz, IIRC.)

 > Well, it's not just "pragmatic advantages", I do believe that in some
points
> python's *design* is just superior. Iteration and container classes seem
> fairly crufty to me in CL (not knowing CL that well, I might be wrong, in
> which case I'd much appreciate to be enlightend).

No such thing as "iteration class" in the language: Lisp had already
existed for a quarter century before it got a standardized object system
(plenty of non-standard, non-compatible versions before that), so the
control flow constructs are rather othogonal to the object system.

Also, no container class in the meaning of unifying lists and hash
tables. On the other hand, the language has what CL calls sequences,
i.e. plenty of stuff work the same on lists and one-dimensional arrays
(including strings).

 
> Now if you want to define you own collection classes, you're really in for a
> hard time:

I fail to see what is so hard in that. Obviously you have to design your
own wrapper class if you want similar behaviour from different data
structures, given that the language doesn't have it built-in, but as you
yourself show, any given operation is only a few lines.
> python:                           CL:
> 
> 
>  x = list[index]                   (elt arrayOrList index)
>  x = hash[key]                     (gethash key  hash) 
                                     ;; *why* this arg-order?
               Why not? It is consistent with most of the language, most
similar functions are defined as (<operation> <item> <containing
object>). The major exceptions are where there may be variable amount of
arguments, like
array indices: (aref <array> <ind1> <ind2> ....<indN>). ELT probably for
similarity with AREF.

>  x = myType[indexOrKey]            ; no generalized item access
					(elt sequence index) works for all 						sequence types. For your
own types you can define whatever accessor patterns you like. There are
tools to make your accessor to work with the generic assignment command
(setf <place> <value>)

> 
> 
> 
>  del container[indexOrKey]         ; no generalized deletion mechanism
                                  (delete item sequence) for all
sequence types, (remhash key table) for hash tables. Not that difficult,
I'd think.
> 
>  container[indexOrKey] = x         (setf (elt arrayOrList index) x)
>                                    (setf (gethash key hash) x)
> 
> 
> for item in list:                  (loop for item in list)
>     print item
                                     (loop for item in list
                                         do (print item)) ; to be exact

> for key in dict:                   (loop for key being the hash-keys of h
>     print key                       do (princ key))
> 
> for value in dict.values():        (loop for value being the hash-values of h
>     print value                     do (princ value))

                            Alternative ways for playing with hash
tables: MAPHASH and WITH-HASH-TABLE-ITERATOR.


> 
> for item in container:             ; no convienient idiom (?)
>     print item

              - For printing the usual idiom is usually just (print
container), though hash tables do not have a defined machine-readable
output form. Nothing to prevent you from defining one.

> LOOP does offer monstrous complexity, but no mechanism to extend it to handle
> anything beyond integers, lists, arrays and hashs.

Already handles also floats, rational numbers, complex numbers (with
some care in end test due to the mathematical properties of complex
numbers: FROM ... TO isn't well defined), strings and packages (symbol
tables).
For that matter, it is a macro, and sources are available, so expanding
it to handle anything else you wish is possible, with no runtime
performance implications. Not that many wish: it is quite sufficiently
complex already for most people.

> Similarly, functions like
> concatenate only know about lists and arrays (which all can't even be
> subclassed, right?).
- Strings too, as a subclass of arrays. As that was about all
system-defined types with sensible semantics for concatenation, I don't
know what you are missing. I've never had any reason to wish subclass
built-in types, so I don't see it as a problem.
 
> This really looks like quite a big disadvantage in abstraction and
> convienience when compared to python.

To some extent this is a style difference in language usage: you seem to
want something like C++ -style overloading, making your own
constructions to hide in built-in behaviours. Most CL programmers are
happy to leave the language built-in parts alone (unless explicitly
defining a new language for some reason), and defining their own stuff
with different names, thereby reducing surprises for readers. In reading
somebody's C++ code I can never guess what + does this week, reading CL
I can be relatively safe assuming (+ a b) sums numbers, (plus a b) is
probably my own matrix multiplication stuff in my code [unless it
happened to be old Maclisp stuff...].

Now what tools did Python have to define your own control flow
constructs ? :-)
 
--


From peter.rams at sap.com  Tue Nov 12 05:18:17 2002
From: peter.rams at sap.com (Peter Rams)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:18:17 +0100
Subject: how good is shelve?
Message-ID: <aqqkh9$gb2$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Hi,

at the moment I'm writing a small web application with python. Because I'm
lazy I does not store the data for it in a mySQL-Database or something
similar. Instead I use shelve to store the data. Now my question is: will I
get problems if my web application becomes famous (I don't think it will,
but who knows?) and the data to store gets big?

Regards,
Peter




From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Wed Nov 20 16:48:13 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 22:48:13 +0100
Subject: Advice for using emacs python-mode
References: <yu99el9g2eyf.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <uisyrq5eq.fsf@online.no>

Andrew Koenig <ark at research.att.com> writes:

> I'm writing a program using Emacs and python-mode, and have run into
> a few problems.

Hi Andrew, I've been where you are, and it's not a great place to
be. One thing I did was to put Python Output into a separate frame
(another toplevel window). This keeps the main frame of emacs more
stable. 

(setq special-display-buffer-names '("*Python*" "*Python Output*"))

The other problem (when running the interpreter and the module needs
to be reloaded), I solved by not using that feature much. I've instead
bound a key to an lisp function that uses compile mode to run the
current python file. I find that this solution solves two problems, it
doesn't freeze emacs and it avoids the problems with reloading.

(defun py-unittest ()
  "run unittest on file in the current bufffer "
  (interactive)
  (compile 
   (format "python \"%s\""
	   (buffer-file-name))))

The thing about it running unittest on the current buffer really is a
lying comment. It just so happens that all my modules have a
if __name__ == '__main__':
     unittest.main()

in the bottom of them, so that running them as a main program is the
same as running the unittests contained in the file.



In addition if you want to be able to step around your source for
tracebacks in the compilation buffer:
;; python TraceBack
;;   File "h:/mydocuments/Kode/pythonscript/AdoDb.py", line 496
(add-to-list 'compilation-error-regexp-alist
             '(".*File \"\\(.+\\)\", line \\([0-9]+\\)" 1 2))


Hope this helps.

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From quadric at primenet.com  Tue Nov  5 20:52:12 2002
From: quadric at primenet.com (quadric at primenet.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 18:52:12 -0700
Subject: Obtaining global and local dict's for current interpreter
  using C API
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021105185139.01a3e638@pop3.norton.antivirus>

Hi,

I am new to Python but an experienced C++ programmer familiar with 
scripting etc..... and
very excited about Python.  I have successfully embedded/extended it and am 
attempting
to execute Python source from a variety of sources.  I have looked through 
all my Python books
for an answers to the following questions and can find none ( at least not 
yet ).

Can someone please help? I'm sure this is incredibly simple, I'm just a bit 
new at it.

I'm using the latest build (2.2.2) and programming using MS Visual C++ 6.0
( no flame from UNIX/Linux guys please ).


Question(s):

How , and using which C API functions, do you acquire the PyObject * to the 
dictionaries
( both local and global) of the current interpreter.  I AM NOT looking for 
the dictionary of an
imported module, but rather the dictionary of the current interpreter.  You 
know, the one
you get when executing  'dir()'  in the interpreter window.

The C API docs say to do the following:

PyObject * pdict = PyObject_Dir(NULL);

and , assuming an execution frame is active, should return the dictionary.

1>	What is an execution frame?
2>	How do I know if an execution frame is active?
3> 	I've tried this and only get NULL in return, indicating the absence of 
an active
	execution frame, I guess?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My code looks similar to this:

PyObject * pres = NULL , * pdict = NULL;
int  result = 0;

Py_Initialize();

pdict = PyObject_Dir(NULL);	// Returns a useless NULL pointer

if ( pdict != NULL )
{
	PyRun_SimpleString( "result = 4 + 5" );
	pres = PyObject_GetAttrString( pdict , "result" );	
	PyArg_Parse( pres , "i" , &result);
}


// decrement any references here

Py_Finalize();

--------------------------------------------------------------

The problem is that pdict is always NULL and I cannot retrieve values for 
variables
created within the namespace of the current interpreter by use of the 
PyRun_xxxx()
functions.



Any knowledgeable help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

quadric at primenet.com














From goldbb2 at earthlink.net  Tue Nov 12 16:13:40 2002
From: goldbb2 at earthlink.net (Benjamin Goldberg)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:13:40 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DD11E7F.C12E708A@man.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DD16F04.517E6720@earthlink.net>

Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> 
> Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> > Considering that Jcl and Jython exist, it seems like a reasonable
> > goal
> 
> (JCL is something else.  I'd rather not remember it thankyouverymuch.)

Erm... that's the old IBM Job Control Language?  You mean this one?

   http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/JCL.html

Bleh, forget I mentioned it. :)  Twas a horrible typo :)

> > would be to make an interpreter which turns Java's .class files into
> > Parrot .pasm files.  Once that tool exists, one could simply
> > translate Jcl and Jython into parrot... there would be no need to
> > re-implement them.
> >
> > And one day, in the distant future, there will be a Perl6
> > decompiler, which will turn Parrot bytecode into Perl6.  Then we'll
> > be able to convert the translated Jython and Jcl into Perl6 :)
> 
> $10 says that only ever happens with a performance hit.  The problem
> is that not all bytecodes are created equal.  (And Jacl is an
> implementation of Tcl in Java more in the way that the usual form of
> Tcl is an implementation of the language in C.

So Jacl still converts Tcl into, well, Tcl bytecodes, even though it's
doing so in Java?  Blech.

Hmm, is there a way of making tcl dump the tcl-bytecodes to a file?

If so, one could probably make an attempt to translate those bytecodes
into parrot.  (And ignore Jacl).

> The fact that Java uses bytecodes is pretty much just a distraction
> here.  We also have another way of integrating Tcl with Java that
> keeps Tcl
> implemented in C, but which integrates almost identically with the Java
> language.)
> 
> > > This sort of thing tends to make me suspicious that this is little
> > > more than a pipe-dream, well, at least as far as Tcl's concerned.
> > > (I don't know the other languages nearly well enough to comment
> > > in a useful way.)
> [...]
> > Assuming you thouroughly understand Tcl's bytecodes, why not take a
> > look at Parrot, and see whether the set of bytecodes that parrot
> > supports is sufficient to do everything that Tcl's bytecodes do?
> 
> I know a bit about Tcl bytecodes, and a key factor about them is that
> they are very tightly targetted towards implementing Tcl.
> 
> Hmm.  A quick scan through the documentation doesn't really raise my
> hopes.  Or even leave me with a deep enough understanding of what's
> going on; is there any deeper description than
> http://www.parrotcode.org/docs/parrot_assembly.pod.html
> about?  (OK, Tcl's bytecodes need documentation too, but I've already
> gone to the effort to understand those as part of my maintenance and
> development duties.  I've just not got enough hours in the day.) 
> Unfortunately, the bits that I'm most interested in seem to be the
> bits with least info (isn't that always the way with complex software
> systems?)
> 
> First impressions: what is meant by "string" anyway?  Character
> sequence?  Byte sequence?  UTF-8 sequence?  ISO 8859-1 sequence?  [FX:
> Reads docs]  Oh, they carry about what their encoding is with them? 
> That must make working with them fun.  How does it handle things like
> the blecherous monstrosities[*] used for system encodings in the Far
> East?

Having read http://www.parrotcode.org/docs/strings.pod.html only just
now myself, it's possible I could be wrong on this, but...

Each string's encoding can be one of native, utf8, utf16, utf32, or
foreign.  So those "blecherous monstrosities" will either be converted
to one of the utf formats, or else have their own string vtable.

For now, they will probably be converted... the strings.pod.html says
this at the bottom:
   Foreign Encodings

   Fill this in later; if anyone wants to implement
   new encodings at this stage they must be mad."

> On a quite separate point, is there a strncmp() equivalent?  That
> would make implementing Tcl much easier...

You mean, for testing the first n characters of two strings for
equality?  There isn't that I know of, but one could always be added;
furthermore, it supposedly will be possible to make lightweight strings
which are substrings of other strings, without any copying involved. 
You could make your strncmp be a wrapper around making a substring of
the first n characters of each of your two strings, and comparing those
substrings.

> More generally, Tcl would need to use PMCs throughout.

Why?  (Not an objection, but I don't know much about Tcl's bytecode)

> The problem is that Tcl's value semantics (copy-on-write) do not line
> up well with that which Parrot seems to use (object-based)

Parrot will do copy-on-write.

Furthermore, Parrot may implement some strings as ropes, so that the
amount that needs to be copied will be even smaller.

> and which, IIRC from the discussions at the time when Parrot was being
> created, are closely based on those used in Perl even if not precisely
> coincident.

Perl is likely never going to implement strings as ropes.  It does now
have copy-on-write, though this is a recent development.

Perl5.6+ has two internal encodings for strings -- bytes and utf8. 
Parrot not only allows native, utf8, utf16, and utf32, but it also
allows any kind of user-defined encoding one might want.  I doubt that
perl5 will ever do this.

> Hence we'd be unable to use ground values except as part of the
> implementation of higher-level concepts.  That'll impact badly on
> performance.
> 
> It's at this point that I feel a round of "Stuff it. I'll stick to
> implementing in C." coming on.  I've been quietly watching Parrot for
> a while now, and I still don't think that implementing Tcl in it is
> really a winning proposition.
> I'd love someone to prove me wrong, but proof is building a Tcl
> interpreter in or on top of Parrot and running the Tcl test suite on
> it (and getting a decent proportion of the tests passing.)

Parrot does everything in two steps -- compile, then run.  Most likely,
it will have a compiler which converts Tcl bytecode to Parrot bytecode.

Whether or not Parrot will ever translate from Tcl source to Parrot
bytecode is another question entirely.

Thinking a bit more, particularly about how Tcl often needs to interpret
strings at runtime, I realize that no non-trivial Tcl program can work
without having a string-to-bytecode compiler.  Needless to say, this
poses a problem.

> BTW, how does Parrot handle calls to foreign code?  The docs I've seen
> are on the hazy side, and integration with existing C, C++ and FORTRAN
> monoliths is (alas) all too important in particularly commercial
> development.

Although I don't know *how* it will handle foreign code, I do know that
it *will* handle foreign code, and have a better interface than Perl5's
cruddy XS extension language.

-- 
my $n = 2; print +(split //, 'e,4c3H r ktulrnsJ2tPaeh'
."\n1oa! er")[map $n = ($n * 24 + 30) % 31, (42) x 26]


From richie at entrian.com  Fri Nov  8 04:49:11 2002
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 01:49:11 -0800
Subject: Python Browser Applets
References: <mailman.1036618569.11393.python-list@python.org> <P5qy9.22663$5u4.69909@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <8a6ba1da.0211080149.69190c08@posting.google.com>

Hi Neil,

> Yes, writing a cross platform plugin is lots of work, especially if you
> want it to integrate well into the browser, such as cooperating in sizing
> and in event routing including command keys. It is simpler if your plugin
> area is a fixed size area that is isolated from the browser.

Do you know whether anyone has succeeded in doing this for Scintilla?  I'm
working on a web-based Python debugger, and I'd love to allow remote editing
of source code within the browser using Scintilla.  A quick Google didn't
turn anything up.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com


From johs+n at ifi.uio.no  Mon Nov 11 05:18:55 2002
From: johs+n at ifi.uio.no (Johannes =?iso-8859-1?q?Gr=F8dem?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:18:55 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org>
 <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
 <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org>
 <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <lzadkgpfxs.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>

* Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu>:

>> > (funcall '+ 1 1 1)
>> 3
>> > (funcall '* 2 3)
>> 6
> You mean (funcall #'+ 1 1 1) and (funcall #'* 2 3).

If you'd checked the spec, you would see that funcall takes a function
designator, not just a function, so his example is correct as well.

-- 
Johannes Gr?dem <OpenPGP: 5055654C>


From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Fri Nov  1 16:52:37 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 21:52:37 GMT
Subject: Win32 DDE support documentation?
References: <mailman.1035906989.16684.python-list@python.org> <uof9aisyb.fsf@osiris.no> <Osjw9.22682$jE1.73079@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <uela56jqd.fsf@online.no>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> writes:

> Syver Enstad wrote:
> > "Andrew Thompson" <andrew.thompson at ashecastle.com> writes:
> >
> >>I am trying to find some documentation for DDE (ala Microsoft Excel)
> but
> 
> >>seem to be going around in circles between Python.org and the
> vaults.
> 
> >>Does anyone know where I can find information on either hot or warm
> >>links ?
> >>
> >>Many thanks.
> >>Andrew.
> > Hi Andrew. I've written a patch for the dde module in win32all to
> > provide support for hot links. If you have access to the msvc
> compiler
> 
> > I can give you the source for it, or I could send you some compiled
> binaries.
> 
> 
> If this patch is in my inbox, I promise I will get to it <frown>.  If
> not, send it on <wink>

It is in your inbox Mark. Mail or post here if you any questions.

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 18 18:21:46 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:21:46 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <eCeC9.26263$744.955879@news1.tin.it>

Richard Dillingham wrote:

 
> This would mean that lines like the following:
> if posx>=coords[0] and posy>=coords[1] and posx<=coords[2] and
> posy<=coords[3]:
> 
> Could be rewritten like so:
> if posx,posy>=coords[0],coords[1] and posx,posy<=coords[2],coords[3]

It's better written as:

if coords[0]<=posx<=coords[2] and coords[1]<=posy<=coords[3]:

anyway (besides the many other correct things that have already been pointed 
out on this thread -- hadn't seen this one though [having admittedly just 
skimmed the thread...]).


Alex



From jmpurser at attbi.com  Sun Nov 17 14:11:34 2002
From: jmpurser at attbi.com (jmp)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:11:34 -0700
Subject: Reading Bluebird/Superdos Index files
References: <mailman.1037552607.23200.python-list@python.org> <slrnatfsnt.7ah.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <ar8pg4$p02$1@main.gmane.org>

Thanks.  I checked there first.  It is a great site!  But unless I know what
format these files are I can't search it very well.  I'm fairly sure I'm
looking at a standard hash/index file with a OS specific header of 512
Kbytes.  I'm thinking about cutting the head off and then asking whichdbm to
help me out.

John
"Robin Munn" <rmunn at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:slrnatfsnt.7ah.rmunn at rmunnlfs.dyndns.org...
> jmp <jmpurser at attbi.com> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > My company has a legacy application originally coded in Business Basic
for
> > the SuperDos operating system by BlueBird.  I can read the data files
but
> > the index files are a problem.  I've tried the whichdb module and got an
> > empty string.
> >
> > Has anyone else run up against this format or can you give me some
> > suggestions for deciphering the structure of these index files?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John Purser
>
> I have no personal experience with this type of file, but Wotsit's Format
> (http://www.wotsit.org/) often has information about obscure file types.
>
> --
> Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
> http://www.rmunn.com/
> PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB
6838
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>







From zimmermann.edv at t-online.de  Tue Nov 19 17:18:36 2002
From: zimmermann.edv at t-online.de (Bernd Zimmermann)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:18:36 +0100
Subject: ctypes and delphi dll
Message-ID: <aredbs$i4r6a$1@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de>

I want to use a Delphi application - available as DLL - with
Python 2.2 and tried the 'cdll' as well as 'windll' interface.

The DLL exports only a single procedure expecting two
pointers to structures.

I can load the DLL and get the procedure handle. But
when invoking the prodedure, 'cdll' claims missing 8 Bytes
and exits, while 'windll' is silent but does not start the
application to work.

Is there a problem with DLLs written in Delphi? The DLL
is a couple of years old and worked fine when used with
Delphi-3.

Thanks for any help,
Bernd




From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Nov 18 21:37:34 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:37:34 -0800
Subject: Multiple instances
References: <mailman.1037652747.18051.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e58cra.j65.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Xiang Zhang fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 18 November 2002 
12:51 pm:

> I would like to run multiple instances of the same Python script
> simultaneously. Does Python support such use?
>
        Well, my SPAM complaint program (run from a Eudora filter [pay no mind 
to the Mandrake Linux behind the curtain]) tends to suck up W98 
resources like mad in my first email pass of the morning. I get some 
15-20 filtered spam emails (defined as anything with .ar, .kr, or a 
CJKV character set) all running the program in parallel.

        The complaint program extracts host names from all header lines, then 
does MX lookups, formatting a complaint email to 
postmaster at mx.lookup.hosts, then feeds it back to Eudora.

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From richie at entrian.com  Tue Nov  5 08:21:04 2002
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:21:04 +0000
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <3dc3a6fd$0$84999$e4fe514c@dreader7.news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1036297041.11317.python-list@python.org> <3dc52687$0$84997$e4fe514c@dreader7.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <78hfsuobus726o8361355145pve3ikia5s@4ax.com>

Hi Boudewijn,

> [...] Eric, a really great debugger written in PyQt

I've tried to install Eric with PyQt Non-Commercial and Qt
Non-Commercial, but as far as I can see, Qt Non-Commercial is only
available for Qt version 2.3 while Eric requires 3.0.  Do I have to buy
a Qt licence to run Eric?

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From goldbb2 at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 11 15:21:17 2002
From: goldbb2 at earthlink.net (Benjamin Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:21:17 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DCFF6FB.40426F8E@san.rr.com> <3DD00595.B2905D8E@earthlink.net> <3DD00B63.EC604897@san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3DD0113D.79EC23F6@earthlink.net>

Darren New wrote:
> 
> Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> > Why would any of these require that strings be eval()ed?
> >
> > You compile the string to bytecode, *once*, and pass this compiled
> > code as the callback for your keystrokes, window events, and async
> > file operations.  You wouldn't pass a string to be eval()ed -- that
> > would be silly.
> 
> Bindings substitute their values. File events get additional
> arguments. Etc.

So?  Pass these in as arguments.  There's no need to recompile a
procedure for each and every different set of arguments that might be
passed to it.  That would defeat the point of having procedures in the
first place.

> > Furthermore, even if one did do something that foolish, the compiler
> > needs to be loaded only once...
> 
> I missed your parenthetical comment on first reading. Yes, sorry.

Peculiar -- if I'd been reading someone else's description of it, and he
didn't say, "(if it's not already loaded)", I would have *assumed* that
it wouldn't be loaded if it already had been, *unless* he said something
to the contrary (like, "yes, I really do mean reload the compiler from
disk each and every time we eval() a string")

-- 
my $n = 2; print +(split //, 'e,4c3H r ktulrnsJ2tPaeh'
."\n1oa! er")[map $n = ($n * 24 + 30) % 31, (42) x 26]


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 21 11:46:53 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 16:46:53 GMT
Subject: Howto wait for multiple queues (Queue.py)?
References: <mailman.1037810069.21157.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arj2lt$bai$0@216.39.172.122>

On 20 Nov 2002 12:50:07 +0100, Andreas Ames <andreas.ames at tenovis.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>as I prefer to use queues for interthread communication, I need
>something like a 'mainloop' for my threads in the sense that every
>thread can have multiple input queues and I want to be able to block
>the consumer thread until input within one (or more) queues is
>available.  This mechanism should be somewhat comparable to 'select()'
>or 'MsgWaitForMultipleObjects()' (on w32).
>
[...<ideas long on possible hows, short on whys>...]

ISTM there are a lot of questions that need to be answered before anyone can
get a grasp of what your problem really is, without making a lot of assumptions.

Step back from the implementation issues a moment. You have multiple threads. Ok.
They are to communicate. Ok. But what is the possible graph of their communications?
Pipeline? Acyclic? Static? etc. Do produced messages have types that sometimes or always
require direction to a[?] certain consumer[s?]? Are there ordered subsequences of messages
that must arrive in original order at single consumers, even though several consumers might be
able to process them? Or, e.g., could a thread simply requeue an item it can't process?

I could go on, but I imagine you get the point: the specs are not all visible from here ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 16:38:48 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:38:48 -0700
Subject: [OT] Cameras (was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?)
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqgka6$t8j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqh2bo$7ti$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <aqh745$1iv$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqhata$ctr$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Eddie Corns wrote:

> A modern point'n'shoot will allow you to do many of the
> things real professionals do (I hope so anyway I'm about to buy one!) but
> not
> the most extreme.  Likewise there are things Scheme can do that would be
> crazy
> to try in Python.  Perhaps I'm being optimistic about the capabilities of
> modern p'n's cameras but my impression is most of us wouldn't really want to
> venture much outside what they can do - so they don't get in the way.

P&S cameras are ok, but their _control_ is fairly limited to none. Some (like 
the Oly Stylus Epic) have excellent optics, others have crappy optics (pretty 
much all zoom cameras, you just can't make a decent zoom of that size, 
physics gets in the way). 

If you just want convenience for 4x6 prints from negative, a P&S is fine. But 
even a basic SLR like a Canon Rebel is about as easy to use as a  P&S, while 
allowing you to 'go manual' when you feel like it. What you can't do with a 
P&S is to set manually the aperture or speed to what _you_ want, you have to 
let the camera decide what it thinks is best.

I learned the techical side of photo taking like that (making _interesting_ 
pictures is a different story :). I bought a Pentax ZX-5N and used it in auto 
modes at the beginning, paying attention to the decisions made by the camera. 
Then I started experimenting by changing things a bit. These days I never use 
it in full auto, except when I'm in a big hurry or need to give it to someone 
else.

Cheers,

f.

ps. The above doesn't quite apply to 'prosumer' digital P&S like the Canon 
G2/G3. Because the sensor is so small, those cameras actually have decent 
zooms. And they also have all the manual controls typical of an SLR. That's 
because it's the only way the companies can sell to the market who wants 
manual control but can't afford a 2k-8k true digital SLR.


From =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?=  Fri Nov 29 02:18:30 2002
From: =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?= (=?iso-8859-5?Q?=B4=D0=DC=F8=D0=DD_=B3=2E?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:18:30 +0100
Subject: mod_python
References: <Xns92D510D3250B7bokuwatetsuo@207.217.77.26>
Message-ID: <3de714c6$1@news.mt.net.mk>

> I figured out how to get mod_python to work, at last, but I ran into a 
> problem that seems to be fairly common (the solution is harder to find, 
> though). Any code inserted into mptest.py works great. But when I make 
> another file in the same directory, the last thing that was in mptest goes 
> into that file, even if mptest doesn't exist any more. Must be browser 
> cache or something... Well, I have no idea, since it's a different file. 
> Does Apache have a cache, too? I have heard that some mistake in the 
> configuration can make Apache keep referring to mptest. But I can't find 
> how to fix it...

Thats the way mod_python works. read the documentation :)

You have registered mptest.py to be a handler for all requests 
ending in ".py".



-- 
??????

          ?? ?????????? ????? ??????????? ??????...
          ...?? ???????????? ? ????? ?????????.



From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Tue Nov 19 05:21:22 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:21:22 +0100
Subject: Simple Encryption
References: <ard013$obo$1@sp15at20.hursley.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <ard38k$9iq$1@news.netpower.no>

"Bronek Carr" <BCARR1 at uk.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:ard013$obo$1 at sp15at20.hursley.ibm.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I am trying to write a simple ROT-13 encryption script in python.  A good
> starting point would be a function which gets the ascii value of a
character
> in a string.  I would assume this function already exists in one of the
> packages, as it does in every other language I use.  I cannot find it if
it
> does, can anyone help me.
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Bronek
>
>

You are looking for the "ord" function:

>>> ord('a')
97
>>> map(ord, "Hello, world!")
[72, 101, 108, 108, 111, 44, 32, 119, 111, 114, 108, 100, 33]
>>>

The inverse is "chr" :

>>> chr(97)
'a'
>>> map(chr, [72, 101, 108, 108, 111])
['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o']
>>> "".join(map(chr, [72, 101, 108, 108, 111]))
'Hello'
>>>






From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 12 11:28:26 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 16:28:26 GMT
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
References: <mailman.1037072595.23496.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dd12c2a$0$4491$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1037072595.23496.python-list at python.org>, =?big5?q?Terence=20Ng?= wrote:

> Could someone provide me an HTML email marketing
> (mailing list) script that allow me to capture the
> prospects' email list from MySQL and send HTML email
> through Windows 2000, IIS (Internet Information
> Server)? The scripts I can find are either too heavy
> or in Unix environment.

You want to do something most of us probably consider evil.

And you want us to actually write it for you!

Do the letters FOAD mean anything to you?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!
                                  at               TAILFINS!!... click...
                               visi.com            


From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Fri Nov 15 14:47:20 2002
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:47:20 GMT
Subject: What is the best way to join tuples?
References: <20021115051600.823.83734.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1037351071.31944.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cbcB9.227$aB1.20@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

"Terry Hancock" <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote in message
> Hearsay says that list comprehensions are slower than regular loops, but
I've
> never actually compared them.  I doubt the difference is really
noticeable.
> Raymond's solution appears to be more general.

>
> Personally, I'm more interested in which is clearer.  I always find that I
> can't write a list comprehension (beyond really trivial cases) until I've
> written the solution out as a loop. But after the fact, when I look at the
> two, the list comprehension seems clearer (even in this case).

To help with the clarity comparison, here's are non-generalized versions:

# O(n) dictionary approach
xymatches = {}
for x,y,z in xyzTuple:
    xymatches.setdefault((x,y), []).append(z)
print [(w,x,y,z) for w,x,y in wxyTuple for z in xymatches.get((x,y), [-1])]

# O(n**2) double loop approach
wxyzTuple = [(w,x,y,z) for (w,x,y) in wxyTuple for (xp,yp,z) in xyzTuple if
(x,y)==(xp,yp)]
print wxyzTuple + [(w,x,y,-1) for (w,x,y) in wxyTuple if (x,y) not in [(x,y)
for (x,y,z) in xyzTuple]]

# O(n log n) sort/merge approach
I wasn't able to come-up with code that wasn't convoluted.




From tundra at tundraware.com  Fri Nov 15 17:30:07 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 22:30:07 GMT
Subject: Possible Win32 Tkinter bug?
References: <mailman.1037396615.799.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <r6s3ra.tjl.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

David LeBlanc wrote:
> It sounds to me as though you don't have the right modality set for the
> message box or something is messed up about your tkinter installation.
> 
> Windows has 3 dialog modalities:
> 
> application modal - the dialog gets the focus, the main app is disabled and
> control returns to the app when the dialog is dismissed. IIRC, this is what
> a tkMessageBox is by default and there's no option to change the modality.
> system modal - the dialog gets the focus, all apps are disabled and control

This is my understanding as well.  However, I also found this at
http://mini.net/tcl/MessagBox  from Harald Oehlmann:

On windows the tk_messageBox command sets the toplevel . to the top of
the window stacking order. After the message box the toplevel . gets the
focus.

To "repair" this behavior on tcl8.4 one can protect the windows over .
by wm attributes -topmost 1 and save the focus over the routine.


     # tk_messageBox for Windows which keeps focus and stacking order
     proc messageBox args {
         # > Save focus
         set Focus [focus]
         # > Get the toplevels above . and set topmost attribute
         set lWindows [wm stackorder .]
         set TopPos [lsearch $lWindows .]
         if {-1 != $TopPos && $TopPos != [llength $lWindows]} {
                 incr TopPos
                 set lWindows [lrange $lWindows $TopPos end]
                 foreach Wi $lWindows {
                         wm attributes $Wi -topmost 1
                 }
         } else {
                 unset lWindows
         }
         }


...

I'm still trying to figure out the corresponding Python (I've never really
done anything in tcl), but this seems to explain the behavior I am
seeing, no?


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From knepley at mcs.anl.gov  Mon Nov 18 08:08:21 2002
From: knepley at mcs.anl.gov (Matthew Knepley)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:08:21 -0600
Subject: Standard module for import hacks?
References: <3DD8E0BB.898E3593@science-factory.com>
Message-ID: <y8hbs4nvxdm.fsf@spinetta.mcs.anl.gov>

>>>>> ">" == James Rauser <j.rauser at science-factory.com> writes:

  >> Hi, is imputil.py in the 2.2.1 distribution *really* a part of the standard library?  I would like to do some
  >> import hacks (see below), but the information I can find about the "right" way to do it is contradictory.  I've
  >> found references to __import__ (low-level), "ihooks" (no code) and imputil.py (in the library, but not documented).
  >> The Import-SIG seems to be inactive, but I found an old mail in which Guido says that imputil.py is still
  >> experimental, and other references which say that its performance is bad.

  >> Here's the task: we want to use Python as the scripting language for our bioinformatics software, which is
  >> organized as an (open-ended) collection of C++ shared libraries.  These libraries are *not* written as python
  >> extensions, but they contain meta-information on their exported names which I can use to automagically map the
  >> exported functions into python callable objects.  With this I can create and initialize a python module object.
  >> The code to do this is in an extension module 'pysf', in a function "sfimport". So, now I can write:

  >>   import pysf # get the root module for our python interface
  >>   pysf.sfimport("FOO") # map libFOO.so into a python module "pysf.FOO"
  >>   from pysf import FOO # I get tired of typing pysf.FOO all the time
  >>   FOO.bar("zot")

  >> What I'd like to do is eliminate the strange call to pysf.sfimport() and the nested module names and just be able
  >> to write

  >>   import pysf # get root module, set up import hook
  >>   import FOO # map libFOO.so onto python module FOO
  >>   FOO.bar("zot")

  >> I'd like to do it in a way that will coexist with any other packages that also hack the import mechanism.  What's
  >> the right mechanism?
  I believe the right way to go about doing this is to use ihooks.py. The functionality in __import__ is too high
  level. For instance, it will not allow you to override the search path, just the name binding in the importing
  space. Likewise, imp is too low-level and not modular enough. The ihooks stuff allows you to target exactly
  what you want to override (with Hooks() or by deriving a class from their basics).
       I have used ihooks in the computational PDEs project here. I made import

    a) Search the entire path for parts of a module, even if some of its is already found (nice for open ended modules)

    b) Consult a database and augment the search path during import

  In order to do this I made an 'importer' module which must be loaded first that overrides the default import
  mechanism, as shown in ihooks. Hope this helps.

             Matt

  >> TIA, Jim

  >> -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Rauser Science Factory GmbH
  >> mailto:j.rauser at science-factory.com Unter K?ster 1 Tel: +49 221 277 399 204 50667 Cologne, Germany

-- 
"Failure has a thousand explanations. Success doesn't need one" -- Sir Alec Guiness


From Maric.MICHAUD at cirec.com  Tue Nov 26 09:21:11 2002
From: Maric.MICHAUD at cirec.com (Maric MICHAUD)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:21:11 +0100
Subject: memory leaks in Tkinter
Message-ID: <27E327AB8201B54495D54105FBBBB1485D1320@SRVMSG.GERLAND2.local>

I noticied some memory leak in text widget of Tkinter :

    Python 2.1.1 (#1, Aug 30 2001, 17:36:05) 
    [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.1 2.96-0.61mdk)] on linux-i386
    Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> s=open("a big file").read()
    >>> import Tkinter
    >>> t=Tkinter.Tk()
    >>> x=Tkinter.Text(t)
    >>> x.pack()
    >>> x.insert(end, s)		# growing up memory to a little
more than size of s
    >>> x.delete(1.0, end)	# does not free memory
    >>> x.insert(end, s)        	# memory goes up again
    >>> x.delete(1.0, end)    	# memory freed by only one s
    >>> 

Is this a bug ? A problem with the version 1.152 of Tkinter ?



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 06:31:11 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:31:11 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <87u1ib6bte.fsf@key.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3u3D9.49382$Yw.2293340@news2.tin.it>

Patrick W wrote:

> Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> writes:
> 
>> 2. try to write something in 1-100 lines in CL that couldn't easier be
>>    written in e.g. python.
> 
> Lots of things are easier in CL.
> A simple example:
> 
> (defclass thing () ())
> (defclass paper (thing) ())
> (defclass rock (thing) ())
> (defclass scissors (thing) ())
> 
> (defgeneric beats? (thing thing))
> (defmethod beats? ((x thing) (y thing)) nil)
> (defmethod beats? ((x paper) (y rock)) t)
> (defmethod beats? ((x rock) (y scissors)) t)
> (defmethod beats? ((x scissors) (y paper)) t)

Multimethods are indeed very powerful, but it doesn't show "in the small" 
(quite typical for many very powerful things), in that the above code isn't 
any easier than:

class thing: pass
class paper(thing): pass
class rock(thing): pass
class scissors(thing): pass

def beats(x, y):
    def are(X,Y): return isinstance(x,X) and isinstance(y,Y)
    return are(paper,rock) or are(rock,scissors) or are(scissors,paper)

and of course this could be further simplified by not even defining that 
useless class 'thing'...;-).


Alex



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Nov  7 14:22:32 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:22:32 -0000
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036637768.2375.python-list@python.org> <slrnasl805.d1h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <j4fzudz0nk.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnaslfbn.33l.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <j4fzudz0nk.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de>, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
>> What platforms doesn't it mean that on? What does it mean on those
>> platforms? Are you talking about platforms with 16-bit integers?
>> If so, I don't care.
> 
> 64-bit platforms. -0x7fffffff-1 is 33 1 bits, followed by 31 zero
> bits, on such systems. In future Python versions, it is an infinite
> number of 1 bits followed by 31 zero bits.

Oh, OK. I don't care about that either because struct.pack("!I") will
still take the least-significant 32 bits and discard the 32-to-infinity
extra set bits.

Sheesh. Metaphors involving "blood" and "stones" come to mind.


From treworn at cyberspace.org  Mon Nov 11 16:45:15 2002
From: treworn at cyberspace.org (trewornan)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:45:15 +0000
Subject: loggin out automatically
References: <1036253358.19897.0@doris.uk.clara.net> <usea4eqqgbrped@corp.supernews.com> <3DC853DF.6060509@cyberspace.org> <omubqa.812.ln@anto.cuni.lan> <usnj1idf2a9837@corp.supernews.com> <2emv9-p1g.ln1@news.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <3DD024EB.9020409@cyberspace.org>

Kyler Laird wrote:
>>>>I am responsible for maintaining a PC in a hotel which is available for
>>>>use of guests, basically just e-mail and web browsing. We are currently
>>>>using a program called "timewatcher" which allows me to provide "access
>>>>codes" each code providing a particular period of access - 20, 30, 60
>>>>min or whatever
>>>
>>>You could use this script as the default shell for guests; it 
>>>automatically kills bash after a fixed amount of time:
>>
> 
> [good simple Python script]
> 
> 
>>Seconded.  Something like this will probably serve you
>>even better than your current "timewatcher".  I think
>>you'll end up pleasantly surprised at how simple and
>>flexible such operations are under Linux.
> 
> 
> Speaking of flexibility, I suggest that after the time
> has expired, you check a file for a new code.  This
> would allow the user to acquire (buy?  beg?) more time
> and then use it without having to restart everything.
> A setuid script could be used to update the file.
> 
> I'd probably also do something more complex than this:
>     os.kill(pid, signal.SIGTERM)
> Maybe just HUP it first and then TERM/KILL it later?  I
> am thinking it would be good to give it a chance to
> save data.
> 
> You're going to run an X server for all of this, not
> just give users a command shell, right?  You could just
> use a similar script to end it.
> 
> --kyler

Sorry I haven't replied before but i've been away for the weekend and 
only just got back. Thanks for all your help, I think I've got enough of 
an idea now to be able to work towards something.

Once again many thanks,

Mark



From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  6 13:40:14 2002
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 10:40:14 -0800
Subject: SSH/SCP
References: <Xns92BC9FE0EDD4Fmhueningzedatfuberli@130.133.1.4> <usd6h0f6d8g5b2@corp.supernews.com> <2259b0e2.0211050833.7367bf5f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <899f842.0211061040.6c79fa5f@posting.google.com>

Have a look at unison for syncing data
http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/

You can call it like pscp but it is more efficient and it
it wraps ssh for you.

Anthony
http://xminc.com/anthony/


mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0211050833.7367bf5f at posting.google.com>...
> claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<usd6h0f6d8g5b2 at corp.supernews.com>...
> > In article <Xns92BC9FE0EDD4Fmhueningzedatfuberli at 130.133.1.4>,
> > Matthias Huening  <mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> > >Hi,
> > >
> > >I am looking for a SSH/SCP module that will work on Windows (2000/XP)
> > >and allow me to connect to a Linux server. Suggestions? 
> > 			.
> > 			.
> > 			.
> > pyssh <URL: http://pyssh.sourceforge.net/ >
> > and the ssh module (twisted.conch) of Twisted
> > <URL: http://www.twistedmatrix.com/ >.
> 
> I had a bad experience with pySSH. It only works (with a patch) on Linux. I
> don't know about twisted but maybe it is overkill. I simply wanted to
> transfer files from my laptop running windows to my desktop running linux.
> In this case the simplest way to do is to download (for free) putty
> ans use soomething like
> 
> os.system('pscp -pw %s %s %s' % (password,filename,hostname))
> 
> pscp (Putty secure copy) can also copy directories recursively with
> the -r option. It is really a nice little program for simple things.
> 
> 
> Michele


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Nov 25 14:45:25 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:45:25 -0800
Subject: stupid Python/database connection
References: <4cce07d5.0211250918.5c97a929@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lkutra.sq3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

animeshk fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 25 November 2002 09:18 
am:

> This is a really stupid question, I know.
> 
> I am trying to write an app that might connect to an Interbase
> database or an Oracle database, depending on a configuration file.
> 
> I have seen some Python code for interfacing with a database, and it
> seems to depend on the import statement.  import some-lib-or-another
> to access one kind of database, import some-other-lib-or-another to
> access another kind of database.  After the import, it's a matter of
> calling that database type's "connect" statement.
> 
> So . . . how can the decision of what-database-to-use be defferred to
> runtime?  When writing, say, a BDE app in Delphi, it would be a simple
> matter of what alias to use.  How is this done in Python?
>
        Well, if possible, you could require an ODBC data source to be created 
for either database, and just use the generic Python ODBC module.

        Or (untested -- and you have to restrict your usage to the common 
elements):

#read config

if dbtype == "Oracle":
        import OracleSpecificDBModule
        myDB = OracleSpecificDBModule
elif dbtype == "Interbase":
        import InterbaseSpecificDBModule
        myDB = InterbaseSpecificDBModule


myCon = myDB.connect(...)
 
> Thanks!

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 11 08:18:19 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:18:19 GMT
Subject: referencing disjoint array indexes
References: <DnNz9.11696$cP3.22276@news.iol.ie>
Message-ID: <v6Oz9.22472$XO.1063011@news2.tin.it>

Padraig Brady wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Is there any way you can do something like
> 
> size, mtime = os.stat()[8,6]

Sure, e.g.:

def getat(alist, *idx):
    return [alist[x] for x in idx]

size, mtime = getat(os.stat(), 8, 6)


I saw you mentioning in a followup that this "doesn't support slicing".  
Actually, not supporting slicing polymorphically with indexing is a
problem with Python 2.2's builtin sequences (which were still using
the C-level equivalent of the obsolete, deprecated __getslice__ &c
methods), already overcome in Python 2.3 -- in 2.3a0:

>>> def getat(alist, *idx): return [alist[x] for x in idx]
...
>>> getat('four score and seven', 2, 3, slice(6,10), 1)
['u', 'r', 'core', 'o']

You do have to use the explicit notation with built-in 'slice' rather than 
just the colon-notation for slice -- the latter is NOT accepted by Python 
(even Python 2.3) in general syntactic positions such as argument passing:

>>> getat('four score and seven', 2, 3, 6:10, 1)
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    getat('four score and seven', 2, 3, 6:10, 1)
                                         ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>

But that's another issue -- if you want to argue for 6:10 as general
syntax sugar for slice(6:10), I guess you should do that on the python-dev 
mailing list where you might convince the BDFL (I suspect he'll veto it
once again as he did on all previous occasions, but, who knows).  If
you're serious about getting your suggested modification accepted, you
are well advised to write a PEP for it first.

Making blah[8,6] equivalent to [blah(x) for x in [8,6]] on the other
hand is clearly unacceptable because "blah[8,6]" already HAS a meaning,
and it is the same as blah[(8,6)].  Maybe that shouldn't be an error
when blah is a list -- i.e. maybe a sequence's __getitem__ should be
able to accept a sequence (in this case, a tuple) as well as an integer
or a slice -- but I have no indication that the BDFL is currently
prone to accepting further complications in the semantics of sequence
indexing.  Still, I don't claim to channel the BDFL (that's the
timbot's job, not mine), so, again, python-dev is where you might
possibly convince him (again, start by writing a PEP -- the bigger
the change you want, the more a PEP is needed -- ideally, a sample
patch wrt the current 2.3a0 CVS tree should also go with it, but
that's nowhere like mandatory except in cases where a mod's very
feasibility is in doubt).


Alex



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 15 10:12:17 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:12:17 GMT
Subject: eMail including attachment on Linux
References: <ar31v1$f0e2r$1@ID-69142.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <l98B9.12495$744.448542@news1.tin.it>

Andreas Penzel wrote:

> I am writing a Python program on Linux which should be able to send eMails
> including an attachment with sendmail.
> How to do that?

For example:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52243


Alex



From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 13 07:37:24 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:37:24 GMT
Subject: Convert type() to string?
References: <s2gA9.47879$Lg2.13805658@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <8IrA9.4648$Yw.197307@news2.tin.it>

Robert Oschler wrote:

> I want to be able to print out the type() of a string for a "structure
> walker" I'm writing.  I need to be able to prepend a string of pad
> characters to the type() so the following:
> 
> print padstr + type(x)
> 
> won't work because type() does not return a string.  What's a good way to
> do
> this?  I'm using Python 2.1 + Python 2.2 (2.1 for Jython).

Either

print "%s%s" % (padstr, type(x))

or

print padstr + str(type(x))

(or many other variations) will work for your purposes.


Alex



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Fri Nov  8 12:26:39 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:26:39 -0000 
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDAD0@intrepid>

> From:	eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk [SMTP:eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk]
> Intercal! don't be such a wuss - have a look at
> http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/madore/programs/unlambda/
 
Too easy - try <http://galileo.spaceports.com/~bwrhodes/bfi.py>

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Sat Nov 30 19:29:09 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 00:29:09 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <96u4sa.llp.ln@cvs> <slrnaui1cc.80b.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3DE95849.6040105@nyc.rr.com>


Robin Munn wrote:
> Max Ischenko <max at malva.com.uaREMOVE.IT> wrote:
> 
>   If you're a
> veteran Lisper, you'll have used proper indentation, of course; but if
> you're a newbie, or if you're reading code written by a newbie, you
> can't necessarily trust that indentation matches actual code structure.

The two IDEs I've used (MCL and ACL) had editors which indented 
"properly" automatically when you hit the tab character (it is 
effectively a "auto-indent" command, /not/ a character insertion.

If I suspect someone has been editing without reindenting, I select as 
much code as I like and (under ACL) hit ctrl-shift-p, which reindents.

Me, after a lot of editing on a function, i like to start at the top and 
tab-downarrow-tab-downarrow zipping down the function watching each line 
reindent so anything out of the way jumps out at me.

But it raely does. Those parens demarcate logical chunks of code, so i 
can edit the way I refactor, shuffling interesting semantic chunks 
effortlessly. This is not possible without parentheses.

Folks afraid of Lisp's parens need to realize /no/ Lisper even thinks 
about them after a few weeks of coding, until the day we have to edit 
other languages, at which point we miss them badly.

When i coded other languages I was pretty fussy about layout and had 
pretty firm indentation policies. The code looked fine, but I did wonder 
how much time I was spending on reformatting after refactoring. In Lisp 
its one key-chord.

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Fri Nov 15 09:29:47 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:29:47 +0100
Subject: Python urllib.urlretrieve vs. Perl getstore
In-Reply-To: <3DD3F7E8.519BC0BF@yahoo.se>; from musikintresserad@yahoo.se on Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 07:22:16PM +0000
References: <3DD3F7E8.519BC0BF@yahoo.se>
Message-ID: <20021115152947.D30315@prim.han.de>

Adam S wrote:
> 
> I have a Perl and a Python version of a program designed to fetch
> large files (40MB) from a remote HTTP server.
> 
> Initial tests indicate that the Perl version, using getstore()
> is 3-4 times faster than the Python version. Is there a reason
> for this and is there another Python library HTTP file fetch
> function I can use? I don't want to use FTP as there
> is no anonymous logon for this server.

Please be more specific and post relevant code-snippets and
which python-library you use. 

IMO perl's as well as python's retrieving functions should be 
99% IO-bound meaning that there shouldn't be a speed
difference unless you are having a Gigabit-Internet-Connection :-)

regards,

    holger



From bloke at ii.net  Thu Nov  7 06:26:18 2002
From: bloke at ii.net (Rob Hall)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 03:26:18 -0800
Subject: idiom for initialising variables
References: <3dc964fa$0$12989@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <3dc96c81$0$12990@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

Sorry, mistyped the first eg - should have been:

class myClass:
     a = 1
     def __init__(self):
         ...more stuff here

I had ' self ' so firmly entrenched in my mind it just went there
automatically.
When I read code using this method I actually ' read ' self.a event though
there was no self there!

Thanks to all those who pointed out my mistake...  it makes sense now that i
READ it properly!




Rob Hall <bloke at ii.net> wrote in message
news:3dc964fa$0$12989 at echo-01.iinet.net.au...
> I'm just wondering on the correct python idiom for initialising variables.
> I see some code like this:
>
> class myClass:
>     self.a = 1
>     def __init__(self):
>         ...more stuff here
>
>
>
> I also see:
>
> class myClass
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.a = 1
>         ...more stuff here
>
>
> Which is the correct idiom?  or is there a subtle difference I am missing?
>
>
> Rob
>
>




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov 15 06:25:22 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 05:25:22 -0600
Subject: Reverse dictionnary
In-Reply-To: <nkz4rajw3ln.fsf@pinel.shfj.cea.fr>
References: <nkz4rajw3ln.fsf@pinel.shfj.cea.fr>
Message-ID: <15828.55714.226904.829040@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Julien> Does "reverse dictionnary" exists in python ?

Nope.

    Julien> If this does not exists, I will simply do two dictionnaries, 

That's the usual technique, though this only works properly for one-to-one
mappings.  If your keys and values are truly of different types you can just
use one dictionary:

  d1 = {
    1:"str1",
    2:"str2",
    "str1":1,
    "str2":2
  }

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From newsread at seabass.yi.org  Mon Nov 18 20:17:47 2002
From: newsread at seabass.yi.org (michael eng)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 01:17:47 +0000
Subject: infinite recursion
Message-ID: <m3zns69x38.fsf@mutated.seabass>

Hello

My program has a deeply recursive function which hits some upper bound
in Python 2.2.1.  I fear such madness comes from being forced to
program in Prolog.

Anyway, is there a way in which I can remove the upper bound, such that
the recursion depth is only limited by the constraints of the machine?

All the documentation I have found tells me how to set it to an
arbitrary finite value.

Thanks
Michael

-- 



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 14:25:15 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:25:15 -0700
Subject: popkey() method for dictionaries?
References: <ar7i50$3ib$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <f9068f8e.0211170458.541bfeba@posting.google.com> <ar8rge$rer$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1037569703.8212.python-list@python.org> <ar97b6$514$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <g21C9.10147$br6.5755@nwrddc03.gnilink.net> <arab9u$ook$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1037633010.22661.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arbeqt$goe$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

John Hunter wrote:

>>>>>> "Fernando" == Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>     Fernando> Sure. First, on principle: the exception option is still
>     Fernando> there, if no default is provided. What giving a default
>     Fernando> buys you is not having to trap the exception
>     Fernando> yourself. If you want a missing key to generate an
>     Fernando> exception, simply don't give a default and that's
>     Fernando> it.
> 
> But then you break the symmetry with get, which provides None as a
> default if no default is provided.  Aren't you now back in danger of
> violating the principle of least surprise?

Mmmh. I hadn't used get without default in a long time, and I'd forgotten its 
not-found return was a None instead of an exception. I would argue _that_ 
violates the 'explicit is better than implicit' rule of python, but it's a 
bit late to change that one :)

In general, since these are all wrappers around dict[key] access operations, 
and at the most basic level such an access to a non-existent key _will_ 
trigger an exception, I'd argue that the default behavior of all these 
functions (get, pop, popitem) should be to raise an exception. In this way 
they would most naturally mimic the underlying semantics, without magic 
behaviors. On the other hand, I think it is _useful_ syntactic convenience to 
have a way of explicitly overriding the exception triggering, for the reasons 
Alex Martelli and I argued elsewhere in this tread.

Unfortunately these functions (get/pop/popitem) have already been written with 
(it seeems to me) inconsistent interfaces, and we'll just get used to keeping 
track of who does what with post-it notes.

Cheers,

f.


From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 12 09:18:40 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:18:40 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjku8$njc$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3DCE003C.9080505@mindspring.com> <aqlntp$66p$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <gknmqa.hc4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqn83f$gou$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <7h3lm402zq5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3DD09242.9010103@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <7h33cq63mdp.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Greg Ewing <see_reply_address at something.invalid> writes:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
> 
> > I think the d in cdr stands (stood) for decrement, not data.  But the
> > web seems confused on the issue.  It just means "second half of cons
> > cell" to me...
> 
> 
> I gather there were also two 3-bit fields interspringled
> with those, and Lisp originally had functions for accessing
> those, too...

I was surprised to find that my departments AMNAG (Applied Mathematics
and Numerical Analysis Group) library contains a copy of the Lisp 1.5
manual -- I could probably go and look these things up...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  > Why are we talking about bricks and concrete in a lisp newsgroup?
  After long experiment it was found preferable to talking about why
  Lisp is slower than C++...
                        -- Duane Rettig & Tim Bradshaw, comp.lang.lisp


From zoltan at trados.com  Thu Nov 14 12:36:34 2002
From: zoltan at trados.com (Zoltan Sekeres)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:36:34 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C5C92001CEEdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1ilqic9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3DD36C57.8050604@trados.com> <m3d6p8s1gw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3DD3DF22.8050105@trados.com>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> The problem that I still consider unsolved is how may translators can
> work on a single document, and how retranslation of the entire
> document in case of changes can be avoided. This can be solved
> theoretically, by assigning IDs to relevant elements (and then finding
> out which IDs need to change), but I'm not sure whether this would
> work in practice.

(It drifts into off-topic space, but ...)

That's what translation memories in general and XTranslate from Trados 
are good for. Translation memories save segments for re-use, either in 
the same document or in later versions. But the segments are usually 
stored without context, so the translator still has to check.

Additionally there is XTranslate which takes an old version of a 
document including translation and a new version without. XTranslate 
will then use the context to identify segments which were added or were 
changed. The translator has to check less.

Using IDs for this purpose didn't catch on AFAIK. Especially as 
segmenting, finding the correct units for those IDs, is a though job.

-- 
Zoltan






From moxie_is at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 27 21:01:10 2002
From: moxie_is at yahoo.com (moxie)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 18:01:10 -0800
Subject: wxSocketServer in wxPython
Message-ID: <b1078faa.0211271801.378f0cbe@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to use the wxSocketServer and wxSocketClient classes in
wxPython, but wxPython does not recognize these classes.

wxSocketServer and wxSocketClient both are in the wxWindows
documentation, so I guess these classes are only available for C++ at
the moment.

Any ideas?

~= moxie =~


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Wed Nov  6 09:50:51 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 14:50:51 +0000
Subject: regex puzzle
References: <3dc91095$1_1@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <yfsadkmycok.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

"Mike Brown" <mike at skew.org> writes:

> I need an example of a regular expression that:
> 
> - matches an empty string
> - matches a non-empty string
> - does NOT match a string consisting of only a linefeed

Try ``re.match('(?!\n)', s)`` (unless of course you can do if s != '\n').

alex


From ehagemann at comcast.net  Tue Nov 12 20:03:55 2002
From: ehagemann at comcast.net (eric hagemann)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:03:55 -0500
Subject: Installing dislin (scientific data plotting software)
References: <3DD12A29.8B34ED2C@cs.nott.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3OednWogkaIkOUygXTWcog@comcast.com>

Turhan,

    Did you direct dislin to that particular directory location ?  It is my experience that dislin installs itself in c:\dislin vice c:\program files\dislin.  I would remove and reinstall, letting it go to the default.  Your symptoms indicate that you are having problems with spaces in the directory names.

    I currently have dislin 8 running with the exact set of packages -- and it works fine

Cheers
Eric

  "Turhan Ozen" <txo at cs.nott.ac.uk> wrote in message news:3DD12A29.8B34ED2C at cs.nott.ac.uk...
  I downloaded dl-80-py.zip and after unzipping, I installed dislin, then I added the following lines to the autoexec.bat: 
  SET DISLIN = c:\program files\dislin 
  SET PYTHONPATH = C:\program files\dislin\python 

  But It seems that I have not installed it properly. When I choose the dislin or readme files from from the windows2000's start>programs>dispy, I get an error message dialogue box with the title "readme" and message "Open error in c:\program".  When I try to use dislin in python it either crashes (doesn't respond and I have to end the program or gives the same dialogue box output or just quits python. I can import the dislin module but I can't use the plot function. And if I go to the dislin/python folder and double-click on the sample python files there the graphs are plotted. One more item that I want to mention is I use windows extensions to python (win32all-148). Numerical Python (Numeric-22.0.win32-py2.2) is the only other module installed at the moment. 

  I would be most grateful if you could explain to me what is wrong and what I could do in order to be able to use dislin or direct me to a source that contains the answer to my problem. 

  Best regards, 
  Turhan 
    
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From e_viola at libero.it  Thu Nov 14 19:20:47 2002
From: e_viola at libero.it (bart)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:20:47 GMT
Subject: BUG URLLIB2
Message-ID: <3DD43DA7.5070004@libero.it>

I'm an italian student and my problem consists about urllib2; urlopen
function, sometimes, give me old (and inexactly) url because the site
has moved in a new location but urlopen  doesn't undestand it and return
403 error FORBIDDEN.

EXAMPLE:

Python 2.2.1 (#1, Aug 30 2002, 12:15:30)
[GCC 3.2 20020822 (Red Hat Linux Rawhide 3.2-4)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
   >>> import urllib2
   >>> con=urllib2.urlopen('http://www.google.it/search')
Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
     File "/usr/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 138, in urlopen
       return _opener.open(url, data)
     File "/usr/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 322, in open
       '_open', req)
     File "/usr/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 301, in _call_chain
       result = func(*args)
     File "/usr/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 785, in http_open
       return self.do_open(httplib.HTTP, req)
     File "/usr/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 779, in do_open
       return self.parent.error('http', req, fp, code, msg, hdrs)
     File "/usr/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 348, in error
       return self._call_chain(*args)
     File "/usr/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 301, in _call_chain
       result = func(*args)
     File "/usr/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 400, in http_error_default
       raise HTTPError(req.get_full_url(), code, msg, hdrs, fp)
urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden
   >>>


What can I do to repair the situation?

Help me please!!!

Thanks...

-Ennio-







From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov  6 23:43:05 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:43:05 -0500
Subject: PyGTA next meeting will be Thursday Nov. 14
Message-ID: <3DC9EF58.4F50FBCD@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> Ian figures we'll be able to have the next meeting in mid-November,
> barring unexpected setbacks.
> 
> He or I will post here shortly with an announcement, as soon as
> something is firm.

I'm happy to announce the next meeting of the recently formed
Toronto Area Python/Zope User Group: PyGTA.

The details of the venue are as follows:

Site: 519 Church St. Community Centre
Room no: TBD (signs will be posted)
Address: 519 Church St., near Wellesley
Date: Thurs. Nov. 14
Time: 8-10 PM

There is metered parking available on Church St. and side streets.
Metered parking spots are free after 9pm.

The site is one block east of the Wellesley subway stop.
There is a Green Spot parking lot on Wellesley,
between Yonge and Church, on the south side.

There are several good pubs including the Keg on Jarvis,
within a block or two of the community center.

Please visit our web site at http://web.engcorp.com/pygta for
further details (unfortunately not updated as I write this, but 
I didn't want to delay the announcement any longer).

I'll be posting this note shortly to the PyGTA mailing list
for those who asked to be subscribed.

-Ian Garmaise, Peter Hansen, 
 PyGTA organizers


From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Sat Nov 30 08:41:02 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:41:02 +0100
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
In-Reply-To: <20021130144547.A1438@hishome.net>; from oren-py-l@hishome.net on Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 02:45:47PM +0200
References: <1038571003.6023.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20021129141954.GA1876@hishome.net> <20021129160115.C11257@prim.han.de> <20021130144547.A1438@hishome.net>
Message-ID: <20021130144102.E11257@prim.han.de>

Oren Tirosh wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 04:01:15PM +0100, holger krekel wrote:
> > Additionally using
> > 
> >     class Struct:
> >         def __init__(self, **kw):
> >             self.__dict__.update(kw)
> > 
> > is also a nice idiom. You can then say
> > 
> > >>> one = Struct(name='guido', phone='5555')
> > >>> one.name
> > 'guido'
> > >>> one.phone
> > '5555'
> 
> If you want something even fancier, try this:
> 
> class record(dict):
>     def __init__(self, initfrom=(), **kw):
>         dict.__init__(self, initfrom)

But this pollutes the instance's namespace. 
Is inheriting from the dict class really neccessary?

>         self.update(kw)
>         self.__dict__ = self

So overall i think it's a neat trick but isn't
worth the namespace pollution. 

    holger



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Nov  5 19:46:50 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 19:46:50 -0500
Subject: The Deitel book (was Re: Textbooks on Perl/Python)
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <m27kfsm2x8.fsf@python.net> <aq8qbh$ik0$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1036539728.6381.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aq9opq$hed$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1036539728.6381.python-list at python.org>,
Chris Gonnerman <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> wrote:
>
>I was one of the technical reviewers for this book, and frankly
>I wasn't impressed.  They only asked me for review of factual
>information, not presentation or style; and I feel it is the latter two
>that torpedo this book.

That's all they asked me for, too, but I gave 'em my opinions, anyway.
(Big surprise, right? ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Project Vote Smart: http://www.vote-smart.org/


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Nov  4 12:37:45 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:37:45 -0000
Subject: loggin out automatically
References: <1036253358.19897.0@doris.uk.clara.net> <3dc3fcf4$0$7369@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <3DC451D3.4060907@cyberspace.org> <PYgtuoA9YVx9EwVx@lampsacos.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <usdc39rpvohtd5@corp.supernews.com>

In article <PYgtuoA9YVx9EwVx at lampsacos.demon.co.uk>,
Ken Starks  <straton at lampsacos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <3DC451D3.4060907 at cyberspace.org>, trewornan
><treworn at cyberspace.org> writes
>>> 
>>> Some combination of the above, I'd say.  Some people might suggest that you 
>>> were silly to not just /try/ your command in a python interpreter, e.g.--
>>> 
>>
>>Good point but I don't have one running on linux and the installation of 
>> linux on another computer is being considered but is dependent on the 
>>feasibility of some system to limit access on a timed basis.
>>
>>Anyway thanks for letting me know why it won't work - I'll look more 
>>thoroughly at the linux documentation for possible answers.
>>
>>M
>>
>>
>You can get python to run a telnet session to the linux machine,
>without human intervention. change to super user, change to
>any other user, kill processes, whatever.
>Better not to send your root password though.
>
>
>-- 
>Ken Starks

So:  did that make it clear?  No, you cannot use
  system("logout")
or a close variation to achieve what you want, but,
yes, there are several Python-based ways to write it.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 29 20:40:07 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 17:40:07 -0800
Subject: importing question ?
In-Reply-To: <3DE80A5B.2040309@nyc.rr.com>
References: <mailman.1038495163.17624.python-list@python.org>
	 <3DE7F96B.1030606@nyc.rr.com>  <3DE80A5B.2040309@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1038620405.21793.257.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Fri, 2002-11-29 at 16:42, Kenny Tilton wrote:
> Kenny Tilton wrote:
> > 
> >> 'from classes import *' brings all the toplevel objects in classes 
> >> into your local namespace, so you can access them just through the 
> >> name. Generally, though, I think this is considered bad practice, as 
> >> it could create overlaps. 
> > 
> > 
> > I just ran into this and I do not like it, because I have what I 
> > consider one little subsystem (Cells) but I have it spread over ten 
> > source files. 
> 
> I just saw the option to:
> 
>    from <package> import *
> 
> along with listing all modules in an __all__ definition in the __init__ 
> file in the package directory. hope eternal. but it seems I then have to 
> qualify any reference with the module name (which I think I grok--it is 
> importing everything into the current namespace in go (nice) but then 
> leaves them compartmented by module when it does so (not what I wanted, 
> viz, a flat namespace for the package).

Would the following sort of arrangement work for you?

# --- file f1.py ---
def fun1():
    print "f1"

# --- file f2.py ---
def fun2():
    print "f2"

# --- file f3.py ---
def fun3():
    print "f3"

# --- file f.py ---
from f1 import fun1 
from f2 import fun2
from f3 import fun3

# --- file main.py ---
import f

f.fun1()
f.fun2()
f.fun3()

Just use an intermediary module to import the other files into (this
could be the __init__.py file in a package directory).


    
> -- 
> 
>   kenny tilton
>   clinisys, inc
>   ---------------------------------------------------------------
> ""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
>    and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
>                                                    Elwood P. Dowd
-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Nov  3 09:23:56 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 03 Nov 2002 15:23:56 +0100
Subject: Python2.1->2.2 broke my thread/signal code?
References: <aq2rd7$2mc8$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>
Message-ID: <j4wunuhgub.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Hugo van der Merwe <s13361562 at spammenot.bach.sun.ac.za> writes:

> n.skip()   # This does the job when using 2.1, but not when using 2.2

Can you please elaborate what you expect to happen, and what happened
instead?

Regards,
Martin



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Nov 16 17:30:48 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 17:30:48 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <ar3s1l$q9$1@wheel2.two14.net> <ar4c70$4j5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <ar6950$1tn$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <ar6guo$gkb$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <ar6950$1tn$1 at wheel2.two14.net>,  <maney at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>But it might avoid that if it were def'd as a nested function, if I've
>got that straight?  I'm not sure I grok that in fullness - does the
>nested def get recompiled on every call to the containing function, or
>is it compiled once and then skipped?  Come to think of it, at least
>some bits must be processed per call-of-containing or else some of the
>recipies that bind to default args of the nested function wouldn't
>work.  I think.  Pending further study of this small, simple language. 
><grin>

Nested functions are definitely parsed only once, creating a code object
with bytecodes.  However, the function object is recreated each time the
enclosing function is executed.  I'm not sure exactly what other steps
are taken.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?


From e_viola at libero.it  Fri Nov 15 14:31:37 2002
From: e_viola at libero.it (bart)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:31:37 GMT
Subject: BUG URLLIB2
References: <3DD43DA7.5070004@libero.it> <ar39ks$dqv$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3DD54B71.1080806@libero.it>

> That's not a bug in urllib2; google.it is *really* returning 403
> FORBIDDEN.
> It appears that this google behaviour is triggered by the header
> 
> User-agent: Python-urllib/2.0a1
> 
> that urllib2 sends, which, in turn, suggests that Google explicitly bans
> urllib2.
> Complain to them.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> 

Thanks to all them that helped me swiftly!!!

How can I change User-Agent field presents inside "urllib2"?

I find two variables that (I think) define user agent in "urllib2" 
library: "__name__" and "__version__".

I tested to set them following way:

      __name__="Mozzilla"
      __version__="5.0"

but it failed yet!!!

Whatever suggest is accept!!!

                                                    - Ennio Viola -







From joel.quinet at be.unisys.com  Thu Nov 21 16:56:32 2002
From: joel.quinet at be.unisys.com (Quinet, Joel)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:56:32 -0600
Subject: Inheritance and delegation problem.
Message-ID: <8D7B1A876CBBD2119E6A00105AC57EF003AC679C@BE-BRU-EXCH-1>

Hi all,

I have an object using delegation to another one by replacing __getattr__
and __setattr__.  It works fine.  now, I have to do it a thread, I have
added the threading inheritance.
My problem is the threading.__init__ methode is NOT call apparently due to
__getattr__ and __setattr__ redefinition.

How can I do that ?

Thanks for help
Joel



class ConfigPyroServer(threading.Thread):
    __instanceMarketsConfigParser = MarketsConfigParser()

    def __init__(self, group=None, target=None, name=None, args=(),
kwargs=''):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self, group=None, target=None, name=None,
args=(), kwargs='')
        self.sortie = 0
        self.cond = EIA.Common.pyroserver.ConditionCounter()

    def run(self):
        self.serverP = EIA.Common.pyroserver.PyroServer(
self.getPyroServerNameServerHostName(), ':' +
self.getPyroServerObjectGroupName() )
        self.serverP.createGroup( ':' + self.getPyroServerObjectGroupName()
)
        self.serverP.registerObjectPersistent(
PyroInterfaceMarketsConfigParser, 'Config')
        while (self.sortie == 0):
            self.serverP.requestLoop( cond = self.cond.cond )
            print 'Looping'
        print 'Stop looping'
        self.serverP.disconnect()
        self.serverP.shutdown()

    def __getattr__(self, attr):
        return getattr(self.__instanceMarketsConfigParser, attr)
    def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
        return setattr(self.__instanceMarketsConfigParser, attr, value)

    def stop(self):
        self.sortie = 1




From b.hall at irl.cri.nz  Tue Nov 12 15:40:06 2002
From: b.hall at irl.cri.nz (Blair Hall)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:40:06 +1300
Subject: simple metaclass question
References: <mailman.1037110036.32581.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD16726.56DD0137@irl.cri.nz>


sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

> <snip>

>
> This is the problem: you're deriving your metaclass
> from 'object', instead of 'type'.
>

Well if you try my code with M(type) instead of M(object)
nothing changes regarding my problem.





From claird at lairds.com  Mon Nov  4 10:55:19 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 15:55:19 -0000
Subject: Book recommendation please
References: <1036349092.40578.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net> <LAex9.66857$aL4.2045429@news1.tin.it> <1036355743.4079.0@doris.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <usd637a95fqkd8@corp.supernews.com>

In article <1036355743.4079.0 at doris.uk.clara.net>,
Geoff <capsthorne at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>out why some application I download won't compile.  I would now like to
>reconnect with programming and do something more creative.  The silly
>thing is that I had this preconception (left over from C64 days I guess),
>that any worthwile language must be compiled and I did not pay any real
>attention to python until I read a little more about it a few weeks ago -
>since then it has been fun all the way :-)
			.
			.
			.
Great!

To congratulate you on your insight that worthwhile
languages need not be compiled (in the usual sense),
let me reinforce it:  Python (and other high-level
languages) have a record of achievement that compares
favorably to those of C++, Java, ... in every way,
apart from marketing.  Python isn't universal; it
comes as close to that dream as any language, though.
My guess is that, however broad the horizons you now
see for Python, the true ones are actually even more
expansive.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Sun Nov  3 03:59:29 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 08:59:29 GMT
Subject: Python Browser Plugins (summary/proposal)
Message-ID: <Rz5x9.4165$t4.469607@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

After looking at all the replies I got to my "Python Browser Plugins" 
question and following up the links, I've put together what I see as a 
reasonable strategy for solving my clientside support problem. It amounts 
to a fairly large project, but it should be feasible for us to implement
it over the course of 2003. Naturally any contributions or comments will be 
greatly appreciated.  I wanted to link to the summary here and ask for any 
additional comments:

Narya Clientside Implementation Concept
http://www.anansispaceworks.net/NaryaInfo/client_html

Cheers,
Terry

-- 
Anansi Spaceworks
http://www.anansispaceworks.com


From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Sat Nov 30 07:45:47 2002
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:45:47 +0200
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
In-Reply-To: <20021129160115.C11257@prim.han.de>; from pyth@devel.trillke.net on Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 04:01:15PM +0100
References: <1038571003.6023.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20021129141954.GA1876@hishome.net> <20021129160115.C11257@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <20021130144547.A1438@hishome.net>

On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 04:01:15PM +0100, holger krekel wrote:
> Additionally using
> 
>     class Struct:
>         def __init__(self, **kw):
>             self.__dict__.update(kw)
> 
> is also a nice idiom. You can then say
> 
> >>> one = Struct(name='guido', phone='5555')
> >>> one.name
> 'guido'
> >>> one.phone
> '5555'

If you want something even fancier, try this:

class record(dict):
    def __init__(self, initfrom=(), **kw):
        dict.__init__(self, initfrom)
        self.update(kw)
        self.__dict__ = self

    def __repr__(self):
        return "%s(%s)" % (self.__class__.__name__,
          ', '.join(['%s=%s' % (k, repr(v)) for k,v in self.items()]))

You can access fields as either attributes or dictionary items. Even
tab completion works. The repr of this object is the constructor call 
to re-create it.

        Oren




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 15:16:31 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:16:31 -0700
Subject: Fast construction of Python list from large C array of int's -  Extension Module
References: <mailman.1037647226.1409.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arbhr0$ig3$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

quadric at primenet.com wrote:

> I'm a bit of a Python newbie and I've written a C extension module. One
> of  the functions must return a Python list whose source is a large (5000 -
> 6000) C array of integers.

You may want to look at Numeric (http://www.pfdubois.com/numpy/)

cheers,

f.


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 27 16:24:51 2002
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 13:24:51 -0800
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <7h3adjvqgs4.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0211271324.2c1a13aa@posting.google.com>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in message news:<7h3adjvqgs4.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>...
> hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu) writes:
> > The global statement as in
> >     ...
> > is a directive to the parser. 
> 
> Well, compiler, really.

>From Guido's Python Language Reference Manual, Section 6.13 The global
statement:

"... Programmer's note: the global is a directive to the parser. It
applies only to code parsed at the same time as the global statement.
..."

Hung Jung


From wurmy at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 11 21:50:43 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 02:50:43 GMT
Subject: PEP #99484663
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211101929020.16433-100000@ns0.tbye.com> <mailman.1036990755.21112.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD06E11.6080409@earthlink.net>

Ian Bicking wrote:

> As an exception, anyone who uses or implements Python-embedded-in-HTML
> style systems wants (and usually adds) an explicit block delimiter. 
> It's essential in that domain.

It is?

In Kaa, you can use embedded code like this:

<% foo.bar() %>

for an expression, or

<#
for x in somelist:
     do_something(x)
#>

for statements.

I don't see why explicit block delimiters are essential here. :-)

Cheers,

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA=='))
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/
Kaa:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/kaa.html



From animeshk at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 12 12:57:43 2002
From: animeshk at yahoo.com (animeshk)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 09:57:43 -0800
Subject: newbie question: how to get directory of script?
Message-ID: <4cce07d5.0211120957.6d4934@posting.google.com>

I'm sure this has been asked and answered a few zillion times: sorry!

I want to be able to get the path of the script I am running (the idea
is that I might have a data file or an ini file sitting in the same
directory as the py file).  Okay . . . so how do I get it?  BTW, I am
running Python 2.2.2 under Windows XP, with the wincom extensions.

The docs said that sys.argv[0] should have the name of the script and,
depending on the platform, the full path.  Nope: sys.argv[0] has the
full path of python.exe (this is occurring within the Wing IDE
environment, within PythonWin, and even from the command line).

The docs also said that sys.path[0] should have the directory of the
script.  Again, nope: it has the directory of python.exe.  However, I
saw the directory of the script in sys.path[1].  Problem: this works
fine from the command line and from within the Wing IDE, but not in
PythonWin (PythonWin sets sys.path[1] to '').

So . . . is there some "official"/"safe"/"standard" way of getting
this information?  Thanks!


From grante at visi.com  Fri Nov  8 15:27:10 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 20:27:10 GMT
Subject: Complex numbers, abs results in mag, what results in phase?
References: <071120021741272463%soufle@yahoo.com> <y9Cy9.3877$Bs5.116582@news1.tin.it> <081120020724547965%soufle@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3dcc1e1e$0$4458$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <081120020724547965%soufle at yahoo.com>, noyb wrote:
> In article <y9Cy9.3877$Bs5.116582 at news1.tin.it>, Alex Martelli
>>
>> > I realize the angle is atan(b,a) but I need to use my_complex_variable
>> > as input and not a,b.
>> 
>> import math
>> def phase(mcv):
>>     return math.atan2(mcv.imag, mcv.real)
>
> This seems obvious now!

It always does after Alex explains it.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  They don't hire
                                  at               PERSONAL PINHEADS,
                               visi.com            Mr. Toad!


From heafnerj at spam.vnet.net  Mon Nov  4 22:09:26 2002
From: heafnerj at spam.vnet.net (Joe Heafner)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:09:26 -0600
Subject: can't assign value to array element
References: <HoCdnRcDleGnR1igXTWcqg@ctc.net> <s505qa.pr4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <KuKdndxYsKP7q1qgXTWcqg@ctc.net>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>        Uhmmm... Assuming zeros(m, Float) produces an array indexed from 
> 0..(m-1), then won't the last iteration of the for loop generate y[10] 
> =...  IE, out of range...
>
Yes, and I fixed that one. :-)





From jsaul at gmx.de  Wed Nov 20 10:05:01 2002
From: jsaul at gmx.de (jsaul)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:05:01 +0100
Subject: SWIG interface to access C array members
Message-ID: <20021120150501.GA7731@jsaul.de>

Hi there,

I've got stuck with the following problem. In a C++ extension
module, which I create from existing C++ code using SWIG, I need
to access elements of array members of a class. Here is a
trimmed-down version:

%module xyz
%{
#include "xyz.h"
%}

class xyz {
    public:
        xyz();

        int a[10];
};

In Python, this doesn't quite behave as I would want it to:

>>> import xyz
>>> xx=xyz.xyz()
>>> xx.a
'_e0011708_p_int'
>>> xx.a[0]
'_'

That is I get Python-'a' as textual representation of address and
type of C-'a'. Through extending my class:

%extend xyz {
  int __getitem__(int i) {
    return self->a[i];
  };
}

I get a little bit closer to what I want:

>>> xx[0]
1

which is what I initialized 'a' with. But still, I would like to
be able to write

>>> xx.a[0]

Any ideas about what I have to do? I don't want to touch the
original codes.

Cheers, jsaul
-- 
Que le gusta rrrodarrr la errre.


From blah at blah.org  Fri Nov 29 02:23:03 2002
From: blah at blah.org (nospam sumofan)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 02:23:03 -0500
Subject: python 2.2.2 install has unworking IDLE in windows 2000
Message-ID: <OCEF9.7352$cx4.1204465@news20.bellglobal.com>

Hey,

I've just installed python 2.2.2 and although the command line interpreter
works okay, the IDLE gui doesn't even run.  I've loaded this both ways under
Advanced settings, even checked Task Manager for hung processes.  Nothing.
Any ideas?  I can't find anything out there about it ;)

TIA


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002




From costanza at web.de  Tue Nov 12 17:25:16 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:25:16 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <b0f083db.0211121037.104ba6c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqrv4g$m7f$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Jeremy Hylton wrote:
> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672 at news1.tin.it>...

> 
>>Hmmm, on a slightly different tack, this DOES help me articulate one
>>source of my slight reluctance to get really deep into Ruby: Ruby
>>gives the programmer just a little bit MORE dynamicity/flexibility/
>>power than Python, by messing with the fundamentals of built-ins and
>>passing "unevaluated code blocks" to methods (that's how you do
>>iterators in Ruby, while Python's iterators are utterly different) --
>>although that's still not a full-fledged macro system, I may be
>>subconsciously worrying that the little extra power IS just enough
>>to get into "newbie cravings" territory.
> 
> 
> I asked Matz about this at LL2 on Saturday.  I asked if he could think
> of examples where he wanted to change the language syntax.  He said
> the blocks were powerful enough that they could accomodate new
> features without syntax change.
> 

There are cases where blocks don't help you, but you're right in that 
blocks can take you very far.

I must admit that I don't know enough about Python's philosophy, but if 
you are concerned about Python's cleanliness you could alternatively 
build in macros as a kind of "experimental" feature, or as a kind of 
preprocessor. This would allow you at least to play around with new 
constructs, and if they turn out to be useful they can be incorporated 
into the main Python language.

And again, I definitely think that a combination of Python and Common 
Lisp would be beneficial for both communities. You could do 90% of 
coding in Python with more mainstream and thus more widely readable 
syntax, and the rest of the really hard stuff could be done on the 
Common Lisp level. I don't know if this could really work out, but I 
would like to use something like that... (Something like Python as the 
modern m-expressions of Lisp... ;)


Pascal

P.S.: We could name this "Biggus Dickus". ;-)

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Fri Nov  8 10:31:35 2002
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:31:35 +0000
Subject: java to python
In-Reply-To: <1036768161.439599@news.liwest.at>
References: <1036768161.439599@news.liwest.at>
Message-ID: <1036769496.1106.4.camel@m-franklin>

On Fri, 2002-11-08 at 15:17, Christian Stockhammer wrote:
> Hello List!
> 
> I've got homework I have to solve in python but i just know a little bit
> java and i got my homework to run in java. Is there anybody who can help me
> to translate that code to python?
> 
> Here it is:
> 
> public class Tilgung{
>  public static void main(String [] args){
>   tilgungsplan(100000.0,5.0,20000.0);
>  }
> 
>  static void tilgungsplan(double schuld,double zinsfaktor,double tilgung){
>   double zinsen;
>   double echteTilgung;
> 
>   System.out.println("Periode Restschuld Zinsen Tilgung");
> 
>   for(int i=0;i<5;i++){
>    zinsen=(schuld*zinsfaktor)/100;
>    echteTilgung=tilgung-zinsen;
>    System.out.println("    "+i+"   "+schuld+"  "+zinsen+"   "+echteTilgung);
>    schuld=schuld-echteTilgung;
>   }
>   System.out.println("                 Restzahlung: "+schuld);
>  }
> }
> 
> This is what it produces: (it is a calculator for paying back a credit)!!!
> Periode Restschuld     Zinsen    Tilgung
>       0  100000.00    5000.00   15000.00
>       1   85000.00    4250.00   15750.00
>       2   69250.00    3462.50   16537.50
>       3   52712.50    2635.63   17364.38
>       4   35348.13    1767.41   18232.59
>                  Restzahlung:   17115.53
> 
> Is there anybody who is willing to help me. I really appreciate any
> suggestions
> 
> Cheers Christian
> 
> 

Some translations for you to get started:

JAVA: System.out.println(""); 
Python: print ""

JAVA: for(int i=0;i<5;i++)    
Python: for i in range(5):

JAVA: static void tilgungsplan(double schuld,double zinsfaktor,double
tilgung)


Python: def tilgungsplan(schuld, zinsfaktor, tilgung):


Otherwise make sure you indent coerrectly and get rid of those
semicolons! (;)


Now go grab a copy of the Python tutorial:-

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html

HTH
Martin





From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 13 16:30:23 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 22:30:23 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C5C92001CEEdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat5d1t.17k.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <m3ptt9qhsg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> writes:

> But XML says *nothing* about semantics. So the *real* problems stay just as
> hard as they were before.

We digress, but to me, the main advantage of XML is that it eliminates
the need for parsers, and the compiler construction business. You can
use off-the-shelf parsers, instead of hand-crafting them using a
parser-generation toolkit. You are right that all back-end processing
(the synthesis phase in compilers) is still up to the application.

There are traditional two camps of XML users: the "documents" people,
and the "structured data" people. The former want to use XML for
markup; the latter to represent some data structures externally. I can
associate with the latter group - I think the former group is better
served with SGML, since that allows to save typing.

Regards,
Martin



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sun Nov 10 17:46:39 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:46:39 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjku8$njc$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3DCE003C.9080505@mindspring.com> <aqlntp$66p$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <gknmqa.hc4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Pascal Costanza fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 10 November 
2002 05:45 am:

> 
> I guess you are referring to "car", "cdr" and the like. They're
> actually not funny but very useful. ("car" returns the first element

        As I recall, they also derive from the hardware that LISP was first 
implemented on -- C)ontents A)ddress R)egister, and C)ontents D)ata 
R)egister (or some variation thereof). Something to the effect that the 
original machine storage unit (words) effectively held two pointers, 
accessed as address and data...

--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov  9 02:24:54 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 07:24:54 GMT
Subject: Determining Presence Of GUI Support
References: <42aiqa.jp82.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <aL2z9.8372$Bs5.285294@news1.tin.it>

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

> Is there a portable method of determining whether the current runtime
> environment supports a GUI or text-based interface?  I would like to
> write a single program which autosenses the presentation environment
> and works accordingly.

Well, you could do something like:

try:
    import tkinter    # or whatever other GUI toolkit you want
except:
    # set things for no-GUI
else:
    # set things for yes-GUI

but that depends on what you mean by "support" -- it's conceivable
that tkinter might load but then not be able to display anything
because for example X11 isn't started (a rather platform-specific
issue), or because it's started with parameters inappropriate to
the display so the display is actually showing just a jumble of
color streaks (more and more platform-specific), and so on.


Alex



From admin at e-tones.co.uk  Wed Nov 13 14:17:11 2002
From: admin at e-tones.co.uk (e-tones.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:17:11 -0000
Subject: Referencing Data structures from a different file?
Message-ID: <3dd2a563$0$28317$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi all, I have 2 files...

main.py
data_structs.py

In data_structs I have a list and a dicionary, how do I make it so main.py
can access these data structures?

Cheers
Taz




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov  6 19:29:56 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:29:56 -0800
Subject: Long overflow problem
References: <bondpaper-55CDDD.13105906112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net> <yu99n0oml9zj.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <bondpaper-7D7F62.16212006112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DC9B404.1AA625EC@alcyone.com>

Tom wrote:

> def myFunc (i, j):
>    for a in range(i, j):
>       print a
> 
> I get the same error. Are there any implicit conversions going on
> here?

Yes, range only accepts two ints.  This really shouldn't be too
surprising; range actually builds a list, so if you really need to talk
about numbers that different enough that you need longs, you pro-obably
don't want to build a list containing all those values.

If the size of the range (j - i) is small, then you could simply call
range with the difference (an int) and each time through the loop add it
to i (a long).  Otherwise, just start with i, and keep adding 1 until
you get to j.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Awards are merely the badges of mediocrity.
\__/ Charles Ives
    EmPy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/
 A system for embedding arbitrary Python in template text as markup.


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Thu Nov 28 12:03:47 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:03:47 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <20021128000512.T11257@prim.han.de> <mailman.1038439190.14392.python-list@python.org> <r0qauuc1uoa8fn2l7beic8tjno735qe9up@4ax.com> <7h3n0nuovvh.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3vicuu46ft9te78npuqm88d98v6entgs1o@4ax.com>

>You'd have to know at compile time whether g() referred to a generator
>of not, wouldn't you?

No, you wouldn't.

C//



From donn at drizzle.com  Mon Nov 18 00:08:31 2002
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:08:31 -0000
Subject: Get Stdout from external script startet through python
References: <mailman.1037574807.25529.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1037596109.791821@yasure>

Quoth Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee>:
...
| But may I extend the question to extension modules, that is, how to get
| the (stdout or stderr) output that originates, say, from a
| fprintf(stdout, ...) statement in an Python/C extension module?
|
| This questions has been raised also in f2py-users mailing list where
| there was a wish to catch the stdout of a Fortran subroutine, wrapped to
| Python. So far I have only an idea that this could be achieved
| 1) by determining the pty (with os.ttyname(sys.stdout.fileno())) where
| these messages go;
| 2) and then using socket and termios modules to get the Fortran or C
| messages.

Ouch.  You may be pleased to learn that it is not nearly such a hard
problem (or perhaps disappointed to find that it's worse than that.)

The basic question is, ``how can I read my own output?''  The obvious
answer is, redirect it to storage - a disk file, or a pipe if you're
absolutely certain the output gathered in one write session will be
small enough to fit in the pipe (in other words, don't use a pipe.)
Your UNIX operating system provides the means to do this redirection.

1.  fd = posix.open(tmpfile, posix.O_WRONLY|posix.O_CREAT)
2.  save_fd = posix.dup(1)

3.  sys.stdout.flush()
4.  posix.dup2(fd, 1)
    ... call functions, saving output
5.  sys.stdout.flush()
6.  posix.dup2(save_fd, 1)
    ... now output is back to normal
... repeat from (3) as required.

So this redirection applies indiscrimately to your entire process,
whether it's Python code or whatever.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From mwh at python.net  Mon Nov 18 10:53:12 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:53:12 GMT
Subject: wrapping all class methods
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <ar3mf5$qii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <m2k7ja50xz.fsf@python.net>

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> writes:

> (Maybe you can assign to it's __class__ attribute, but I recall
> that assigning to __class__ is being phased out.)

I don't think so -- in fact I'm currently trying to create a patch for
2.3 that will allow assignment to __bases__, so I think things are
getting more permissive here...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I'm a keen cyclist and I stop at red lights.  Those who don't need
  hitting with a great big slapping machine.
                                           -- Colin Davidson, cam.misc


From glongman at ilangua.com  Wed Nov 27 11:43:00 2002
From: glongman at ilangua.com (Graeme Longman)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:43:00 +0000
Subject: Xml.Sax.Saxutils.escape() reverse ?
Message-ID: <3DE4F614.1F65BB6F@ilangua.com>

Hi,

Does anyone know how to achieve the opposite of the escape method in
Xml.Sax.Saxutils ?

I've managed to escape my data so that I don't get a 'not well-formed'
error but I don't know to get my data back into it's original form after
the xml has done it's stuff.

Thanks a lot.

Graeme




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Nov 23 18:25:14 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 18:25:14 -0500
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <2259b0e2.0211230554.1cde87bb@posting.google.com> <aroklh$9qu$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <arp2oq$a8$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <aroklh$9qu$1 at wheel2.two14.net>,  <maney at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>Or, as Joel's characters put it, balance is the way...

ObJennie: Joel Rosenberg, _D'Shai_


;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra


From edream at tds.net  Wed Nov  6 10:32:09 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:32:09 GMT
Subject: Guilty secret: globals baffle me
References: <3U9y9.19300$ko1.2872530@kent.svc.tds.net> <82ay9.98000$TD1.4405986@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ZBay9.19307$ko1.2878943@kent.svc.tds.net>

> The global statement only makes sense inside a function.

!!  This is what I have been missing.  Thanks very much.

- Edward




From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 12 09:15:12 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:15:12 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqjr09$qbg$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <slrnasr9v1.267f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <tyfof8x1rkf.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <aqmqma$nsd$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <tyfvg34zeku.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1037052618.20223.python-list@python.org> <aqpf2i$7i9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <mailman.1037062037.18153.python-list@python.org> <m2k7jj5d9t.fsf@bese.it>
Message-ID: <7h37kfi3mjh.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Marco Baringer <mb at bese.it> writes:

> but the problem is that the coressponding python code doesn't do the
> same thing:
> 
> in openmcl 0.13b:
> 
> ? (* 1e10 (parse-float "0.4e-10"))
> 0.4
> 
> in python 2.2 (whatever apple ships with jaguar):
> 
> >>> float("0.4e-10") * 1e10
> 0.39999999999999997

This is a matter of printed representations.  OpenMCL is lying
(slightly) to you.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  ZAPHOD:  Listen three eyes, don't try to outwierd me, I get stranger
           things than you free with my breakfast cereal.
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 7


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 20 09:08:50 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:08:50 GMT
Subject: Pickles
References: <Xns92CC8CF529BBDkennedybillnospamfre@208.149.207.130>
Message-ID: <SHMC9.44071$Yw.2054901@news2.tin.it>

William Kennedy wrote:

> How big can a pickled object be.

No direct limit AFAIK, except ones connected to the amount of memory you 
have available.


> I am looking at an index 800 records long, should I be using a database

"index" and "record" are not primitive concepts in Python, so it's hard to 
understand exactly what you mean.  A relational database may give several
advantages, with different cost/benefits tradeoffs as you move from
lightweight ones such as Gadfly or SQLite up to enterprise-level heavies
such as SAP/DB or Oracle, but amount of data you're handling is hardly
ever going to be the only consideration in your choice of storage strategy.


Alex



From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Tue Nov  5 16:10:28 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:10:28 +1100
Subject: power TypeErrors
In-Reply-To: <200211052054.PAA05238@nealtech.net>
References: <200211052054.PAA05238@nealtech.net>
Message-ID: <200211060810.28875.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:02, anton wilson wrote:
> I'm trying to understand the possible type errors for **
>
> The language reference states that
>
>
> The power operator has the same semantics as the built-in pow() function,
> when called with two arguments: it yields its left argument raised to the
> power of its right argument. The numeric arguments are first converted to a
> common type. The result type is that of the arguments after coercion; if
> the result is not expressible in that type (as in raising an integer to a
> negative power, or a negative floating point number to a broken power), a
> TypeError exception is raised.
Looks like the docs are outdated. I'm not sure about the "broken power" bit.

[bradh at localhost USB-guide-head]$ python
Python 1.5.2 (#1, Jul  5 2001, 03:02:19)  [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 
7.1 2 on linux-i386
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> 1**-2
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: integer to the negative power
>>> -1.2**0.5
- -1.09544511501

bradh at squirt python $ python
Python 2.2.1 (#1, Oct  4 2002, 09:50:49)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 1**-2
1.0
>>> -1.2 ** 0.5
- -1.0954451150103321

Brad
- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Thu Nov 14 05:10:58 2002
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:10:58 +0100
Subject: Newbie question
References: <aqvlp2$rtb$1@tilde.itg.ti.com>
Message-ID: <3DD376B2.2010301@mplusr.de>

Firdaus Janoos schrieb:
>     I know this is kind of dumb, but i cant figure out how to execute a .py
> file (not a module - a pgm ) from IDLE. I am unable to "load" the file.

Guess you open the debugger from the debug menu abd press "go" in
the debug window. Or you import the module in the shell and run some
method.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Nov 19 13:32:00 2002
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J Lee)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 10:32:00 -0800
Subject: timeoutsocket & sendall / Python 2.1
References: <mailman.1037399909.22831.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c177ebeb.0211191032.6e48fd57@posting.google.com>

Surely somebody out there knows if this is correct?

Does nobody use timeoutsocket any more?  If not, what do you use?

Thanks for any help

"John J Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1037399909.22831.python-list at python.org>...
> It seems that Python 2.1 added a sendall method to socket objects.  I
> think something like this needs adding to timeoutsocket.py:
[...]
> +   def sendall(self, data, flags=0):
> +       while data:
> +           n = self.send(data, flags)
> +           data = data[n:]
> +   # end sendall
[...]
> I've never used sockets directly, so apologies if this is broken /
> hopelessly naive.
> 
> I'm surprised that nobody has bumped into this before, which is
> why I'm posting it here -- I have a feeling I must be missing
> something.


John


From shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 17:58:36 2002
From: shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com (Richard Dillingham)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:58:36 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <yu99isyujyrc.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <wgeC9.17350$0U1.1713575@news2.east.cox.net>

> Instead, (a, b) >= (c, d) is defined as (a>c or (a==c and b>=d)).

I just keep reading that again and again and thinking "WTF? Why? Wha...."

*shudders*

Now I'm sorry I asked...




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 14:20:47 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:20:47 -0700
Subject: power TypeErrors
References: <mailman.1036639269.847.python-list@python.org> <7h3ptthzlf0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqe8t4$ffa$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <3DCAB43A.6EFA9A25@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <aqeeeg$j44$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Note that in the interests of nitpickery, C99 does have a builtin
> complex type.

I know, and I'm happy to see it. Unfortunately, we all know how long it will 
be before C99 is fully supported by most compilers. I'll be glad when I can 
write C with complex numbers with no worries about portability or bizarre 
bugs.

[snip]

> That's probably the best rationalization I've seen for including complex
> number support in the language itself.  Implementing a complex number
> class oneself is pretty straightforward, and the vast majority of
> non-scientific users will never have a need for it, but when you want to
> do scientific work and the builtins don't play nice with complex
> numbers, it's a huge inconvenience.

Thanks. I actually am a bit irked that in python, things like the power 
operator and other math functions aren't 100% complex-safe. But I understand 
that is tricky to do right, and manpower is limited. Maybe as the language 
gains popularity in scientific circles, someone will come out with the time 
to go in and fix those ugly corners.

Cheers,

f


From b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u  Sat Nov  9 00:29:52 2002
From: b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u (Ben C)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:29:52 +1100
Subject: Question about drawing simple graph in Python?
References: <mailman.1036730290.879.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dcc9ce6@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

Hi there

try these

http://py.vaults.ca/apyllo.py?find=graph

I am sure that you will find something there that will do the job

cheers

Ben C
"Mindy" <csshi99 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1036730290.879.python-list at python.org...
> I have two lists, say:
> list1 = ['s1','s2','s1','s3'...]
> list2 = ['t1','t2','t3','t3'...]
>
> I want to draw a simple graph, with 's1' points to
> 't1', which means drawing one line between 's1' and
> 's2' and an arrow pointed to 't1'. (for i in
> range(len(list1), there's an edge between list1[i] and
> list2[i]). So how to draw this graph in Python? I
> searched on google but didn't find some easy way to
> implement this. Thanks for any hints!
>
>
>
> =====
> Cheers
> -Mindy
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
> http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
>




From anonymous at nodomain.none  Fri Nov 29 19:26:46 2002
From: anonymous at nodomain.none (Tetsuo)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 00:26:46 GMT
Subject: mod_python
References: <Xns92D510D3250B7bokuwatetsuo@207.217.77.26> <3de714c6$1@news.mt.net.mk> <Xns92D58A7B25737bokuwatetsuo@207.217.77.26> <3de7c1bb$1@news.mt.net.mk>
Message-ID: <Xns92D5C59267026bokuwatetsuo@207.217.77.26>

>> That sounds so complex, clumsy and dumb that it's probably not the
>> way. How do I make every script handle itself? I tried the publisher
>> handler, and it proved useless.
> 
> The publisher handler will do what you want

How? Instructions give no clues. I tried to put in:


    <Directory "D:/Program Files/Apache Group/Apache/htdocs/python">
	AddHandler python-program .py
	PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
    </Directory>

With this, opening any script gives a not-found. Like the description says 
it should. That's not what I want.

> 
>> I thought about importing everything to one script from others, but
>> that isn't what I need at all. That's just pointless.
> 
> And that's the way the publisher works

You lost me.

> 
>> And how do I make it so typing in a directory gives me a page
>> (index.htm) instead of a list of the files in the directory? (Goes to
>> take another look at the publisher)
> 
> I dont believe that's connected to mod_python.

I see.
> 

I just want to know... How do other people do it? Because I'm lost and 
don't know what I want any more. I want to make a ratings site, kinda like 
Epinions, so what do I need for that?

For now, I want to know how to run multiple scripts from one directory. If 
modpython can't do that, can Zope?


From gminick at hacker.pl  Sun Nov 17 11:21:52 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:21:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net> <mailman.1037506706.23922.python-list@python.org> <3DD7B7E8.2020402@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <slrnatftvs.17r.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:38:16 -0500, Pierre Rouleau napisa?(a):
[...] 
> Is there a more efficient way to merge heterogenous lists than the brute 
> force approach used by uniq() above?
Functions:

--- flatten() ---
import types

flatret = []

def flatten(x, a=1):
   for i in x:
     if type(i) == types.ListType or type(i) == types.TupleType:
        flatten(i, 0)
     else:
        flatret.append(i)
   if a==1:
      return flatret
---------------

--- mergelist() ---
def mergelist(*lists):
   c = {}
   [[c.__setitem__(a,0) for a in flatten(i)] for i in lists]
   return c.keys()
-------------------

A code to check if it works:

---
def nic():
   pass

a = [1,2,3,[3]]
b = [4,'b',1]
c = [5,nic,['a', nic, 'b', [1, nic, 'b']]]
d = [2,'a',8]
e = [7,6,3]
f = [1,nic,3]

print mergelist(a,b,c,d,e)
---

...and it returns that: 
      ['a', 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, <function nic at 0x814880c>, 'b']

HTH in any way... ;>

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From bulbul at ucla.edu  Tue Nov 26 22:02:34 2002
From: bulbul at ucla.edu (Leston Buell)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:02:34 -0800
Subject: dbhash/bsddb problem, old bsddb version?
Message-ID: <3DE435CA.5090800@ucla.edu>

Hi. I have this nifty web-based address book program that i wrote a 
couple of years ago in Python. It is hosted on a web host, so i have no 
control over the way Python or other programs are installed. My web 
host, which is running a very old version of Red Hat Linux, probably 
5.1, recently upgraded from Python 1.5 to 2.2. Now my program doesn't 
work. The program uses the anydbm module to store its data, in a file 
named "address.db". When i do whichdb.whichdb("address.db"), i'm told 
that this file is in dbhash format. However, when i try to open it using 
dbhash (on my home machine), i get the following:

 >>> dbhash.open( 'address.db', 'r' )

Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ? File
    "/usr/lib/python2.2/dbhash.py", line 16,
    in open return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
    bsddb.error: (-30990, 'Unknown error 4294936306')

I recall that when i first wrote this program a few years ago there was 
some sort of change in database format that required me to do something 
to make this file readable again (a discrepency between bsddb on my web 
host and a newer version on my home machine), but i don't remember what. 
My web host's new installation of Python doesn't even have the bsddb 
module installed (which is why anydbm.open fails). So, i've written a 
little program to convert my data file to gdbm (on my home machine). 
However, on my own machine i can't open the file using dbhash, as i just 
described. Can someone please tell me what i need to do to get at my 
data again?

Oh, and another piece of advice i would appreciate. As i mentioned, i've 
already written a little program to convert my dbhash file to gdbm 
format. Is there any reason i should be using dbm instead of gdbm?

Thanks.

Leston
bulbul at ucla.edu



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 26 13:55:39 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:55:39 -0600
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
In-Reply-To: <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org>
        <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <15843.50091.965638.345147@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Grant> I see how you use list comprehensions to replace map and filter,
    Grant> but I don't understand why list comprehensions are touted as a
    Grant> replacement for reduce and lambda.  

In general, I don't think they are (though people make mistakes or aren't as
precise as they ought to be at times).  Map, filter, reduce and lambda get
lumped together in the "functional programming" pot.  List comprehensions
only replace map and filter.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From maney at pobox.com  Sun Nov 24 10:40:09 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:40:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <9PvekLArvL49Ewa2@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <arqrso$b2j$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> I repeatedly get
> 
> for loop took 5.81
> list comprehension took 8.16
> map took 4.23
> 
> with 2.2.2 win32 on a 1GHz pentium.

Two runs each on the otherwise idle P3/850, Debian stable.  Default
Python is 2.1.3, other is 2.2.1:

maney at wheel2:~$ python regrets.py
for loop took 7.40
list comprehension took 7.98
map took 4.32

for loop took 7.34
list comprehension took 7.94
map took 4.32

maney at wheel2:~$ python2.2 regrets.py
for loop took 6.91
list comprehension took 7.35
map took 4.35

for loop took 6.91
list comprehension took 7.34
map took 4.35

BTW, your tests include the 'del S' in the timed portion.  Oddly,
moving that to come after the end of the timed period doesn't have any
effect on the for loop time, but reduces the other two tests by about
10%.  I also tried adding a pre-charging construction before the for
loop (I used the map, since it was fastest, of course), but that had no
significant effect on any of the results.  Odd.

Although after seeing a 25% hit from changing the for loop to use the
more natural S.append(...), I am left wondering how much of the speedup
from using map I would ever see in actual practice.  Hmmm...

If we add a fairly trivial filter to the test things the differences
become a great deal less significant:

maney at wheel2:~$ python sorry.py
for loop took 5.22 to make a list of 500000 items
list comprehension took 5.22 to make a list of 500000 items
map took 4.33 to make a list of 500000 items

maney at wheel2:~$ python2.2 sorry.py
for loop took 5.06 to make a list of 500000 items
list comprehension took 4.90 to make a list of 500000 items
map took 4.52 to make a list of 500000 items

The test is a bit contrived, but seems a reasonable proxy for the low
end of complexity of the sort of things I seem most often to be doing
(usually with list comprehension syntax since I've been able to migrate
away from 1.5 on all my active targets):

### revised test with filtering
from time import time

n = 1000000
N = xrange(n)

t0 = time()
S=[]
a = S.append
for x in N:
    if x % 2 == 1:
        a(str(x))
print 'for loop took %.2f to make a list of %d items' % ((time()-t0), len(S))

del S
t0 = time()
S = [str(x) for x in N if x % 2 == 1]
print 'list comprehension took %.2f to make a list of %d items' % ((time()-t0), len(S))

del S
t0 = time()
S = map(str,filter(lambda x: x % 2 == 1, N))
print 'map took %.2f to make a list of %d items' % ((time()-t0), len(S))
###

Interesting chages when the filter is changed to select every seventh
item (s/x % 2/x % 7/ in three places):

maney at wheel2:~$ python sorry.py
for loop took 2.57 to make a list of 142857 items
list comprehension took 2.57 to make a list of 142857 items
map took 2.94 to make a list of 142857 items

maney at wheel2:~$ python2.2 sorry.py
for loop took 2.58 to make a list of 142857 items
list comprehension took 2.46 to make a list of 142857 items
map took 3.24 to make a list of 142857 items

Okay, that's enough for now.


From sindrehi at c2i.net  Tue Nov 19 09:22:11 2002
From: sindrehi at c2i.net (Pål Sindre Hiåsen)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:22:11 +0100
Subject: read from user
Message-ID: <mOrC9.1963$8E1.35905@news4.e.nsc.no>

Hello!
Is there somthing i have to think about when i write code who ask for input
from user?
I tried this:
antall = input('some instruction ') #read a int
for i in range(10):
    L[i]= raw_input('write names ')    #read string

What is wrong??


 Sindre Hi?sen




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 15 08:07:48 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 14:07:48 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <mailman.1037224700.11546.python-list@python.org> <m3ptt9p0rw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <ar0cso$iua$1@news.hccnet.nl> <m38yzw6o5g.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <ar2klb$1nc$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <m34rajm15n.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:

> Of course the PSF has to be careful to not accept potential poisonous
> contributions but it is the responsibility of the PSF to thoroughly
> check legal problems and the contributor should not be burdened with
> these matters. If the contributor contributes code using a BSD license
> for the code, the code should be compatible to the Python license or
> else the Python license itself would not be compatible to BSD.

I think if the contributor contributes under any other but the Python
license, we would ask him to reconsider, and license it (to us) under
the Python license.

> Yes you should be careful, but be careful by checking the code and
> it's license. If you start assuming people to be taking advantage
> unless they can proove that they are not you miss a lot of chances. 

This is unclear. People who want to contribute are, in my experience,
very open to suggestions for changing their licenses - unless they are
bound already by other obligations. In that case, we will have to
consider whether Python should be bound by the same obligations.

> >So anonymous contributions are clearly out of question.
> 
> I hope I gave an example of someone not being able to contribute as
> you asked about in a previous post, although it's a situation
> occurring only for the very few people that care about these matters
> :-)

Yes, I do acknowledge that problem: and it did cause contributors to
withdraw their contribution (in most cases, because they could not get
the necessary clearance from their company).

That is a serious issue, but independent from the issue of the
documentation processing tool chain.

> 128 bits of type checking is not pythonic and will severely limit the
> set of possible interactions with your clients. I am not discussing
> data: I am discussing protocols.

The please elaborate: You have no problems with giving some of your
private data to SourceForge, but you are concerned about the specific
protocol mechanism?

Can you please elaborate? In what specific scenarious would the
protocol be inadequate?

Regards,
Martin



From fclift at verio.net  Fri Nov  8 13:39:33 2002
From: fclift at verio.net (Fred Clift)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:39:33 -0700 (MST)
Subject: complicated class question
Message-ID: <20021108113625.E58344-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net>

If any of you could spare a moment of your time and perhaps help me figure
out a problem I'm having, I'd be most grateful.  If you dont have time or
dont want to bother with me, then feel free to ignore this email message
:).

My problem has to do with looking for a way to override methods in a
system library that I dont want to modify, that is used in a 3rd party
library that I dont want to modify.


I can summarize the problem with a toy example:

class a:
    def foo(self):
        print "hi"


class b:
    def bar(self):
        ainst = a()
        ainst.foo()


say that a is defined in a system library and that b is in a 3rd party
library.

I'd like to get b to use a modified version a, without having to change
the code of either


my code would do something like:

binst = b()
<insert your solution here>
binst.bar()

and I'd like the version of a.foo that is called be

def myfoo(self):
        print "bye"

Does that make sense?


I could just derive a new class from B and override bar, but in this case,
bar is like 80 lines of code and the the use of the a-classed object is
relatively minimal -- I'd have to basically copy the whole thing -
maintainace problems with new versions of the library etc.

I'm stumped :).

If you've read this far, thanks for your kind interest.

Fred

--
Fred Clift - fred at clift.org -- Remember: If brute
force doesn't work, you're just not using enough.





From gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com  Sat Nov  9 00:57:48 2002
From: gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com (gcash)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 05:57:48 GMT
Subject: ftplib two server "proxy" support
References: <4rashloo.fsf@cfl.rr.com> <m31y5w77dm.fsf@flognat.myip.org>
Message-ID: <wunnwaii.fsf@cfl.rr.com>

Andrew Markebo <andrew.markebo at telia.com> writes:

> / gcash <gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> | Is there anyone who's done support for the 2 server model of the FTP
> | RFC-959, the thing that most UNIX FTP clients call "PROXY" ??
> |
> | I'm talking about Figure 2 in Section 2.3 of RFC-959 and *NOT* a firewall
> | or other type of intermediate proxy.
> 
> When reading the ftplib source of Python 2.2 I find a function ftpcp
> that seems to do this..

WOW! I totally missed that... thank you VERY much.  I though I'd gone
through that code with a fine-tooth comb, but evidently not.

-gc

-- 
Christmas is weird. What other time of the year do you sit in front of
a dead tree and eat candy out of your socks?
 -- Metamorph at mmcable.com (alt.gothic)


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  9 17:52:06 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 15:52:06 -0700
Subject: Numarray append
References: <1ggz9.11678$Zn2.332778@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <aqk3ip$4q3$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Fabrizio wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Is there a quick way to append elements to a Numarray array ?
> 
> I could not find any.

You are thinking of numarrays as python lists. They are much more like C 
arrays: homogeneous, fixed-size structures. That's why things can be done 
fast with them, but the price you pay is flexibility. If you need to grow a 
numarray, the easiest way is to allocate a new one of the desired final size, 
then copy into it the data of the original and fill in the new data as 
needed. With judicious use of take & friends all this can be done 
efficiently.

Cheers,

f.


From joconnor at cybermesa.com  Sun Nov  3 08:53:48 2002
From: joconnor at cybermesa.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 13:53:48 GMT
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3dc52a19.3339913@news.cybermesa.com>

On 1 Nov 2002 23:06:06 -0500, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>So I've been having a friendly argument for a long time with a friend of
>mine who's a real Java booster.  The current iteration was sparked by a
>discussion of extreme programming, where along the way I repeated what
>some people here have mentioned about Python being easier to refactor
>than Java.  She asked me what -- if any -- Java-based tools were used by
>the experienced Java programmers who made that claim.  She thinks that
>those tools are superior to plain text editors (which are really all
>that's needed for Python).
>
>Anyone wanna help me out here?


Nope, sorry.  I really like Python, but I still miss the development
tools I have when using Smalltalk

Take care,
Jay
Jay O'Connor
joconnor at cybermesa.com
http://www.cybermesa.com/~joconnor


"God himself plays on the bass strings first, when he tunes the soul"


From hat at se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl  Thu Nov 28 10:42:30 2002
From: hat at se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl (Albert Hofkamp)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:42:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: LAN communication under windows
References: <mailman.1038494924.16008.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaucef3.50v.hat@se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:42:52 -0600, sismex01 at hebmex.com <sismex01 at hebmex.com> wrote:
>> From: stojek at part-gmbh.de [mailto:stojek at part-gmbh.de]
>> Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 6:11 AM
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> for a little (net) game i am planning, i have to write two components,
>> a client and a server module. If one of the gamers starts the

>> Except that I have no idea how to start or where to look? Do I have to
>> use services or sockets or something else? I am sure there is a simple
>> example somewhere, but i can't find it.

Python documentation, library reference manual, socket module.


Albert
-- 
Unlike popular belief, the .doc format is not an open publically available format.


From grante at visi.com  Sun Nov 24 19:19:07 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 00:19:07 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3DDD711D.2000802@skippinet.com.au> <arl9cs$k6b$0@216.39.172.122> <3dde5012$0$4491$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3dde5e18$0$22192$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <THED9.3061$hg1.6331@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <slrnatv9r8.td7.grante@localhost.localdomain> <u4dE9.10391$hg1.21689@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <slrnau2r6r.8rf.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <u4dE9.10391$hg1.21689 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>, Mark Hammond wrote:

>>> Also much easier for me to code ;)
> 
>> When in doubt, do whatver is simpler.
> 
> Yes, good philosophy.
> 
> How about I make a deal with you - I will add this support, and you
> translate your C++ code that demonstrates the mask change into Python 
> once this is available?  The next win32all is about due anyway.

Sure.  Is the mask object returned by an overalapped read going to know how
to turn itself into an int (analogous to the way it knows how to turn itself
into a string), or do I need to access individual bytes and do that in
user-code?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Actually, what
                                  at               I'd like is a little toy
                               visi.com            spaceship!!


From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Mon Nov  4 14:07:06 2002
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:07:06 +0100
Subject: pyqt rules
References: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <mailman.1036370164.21605.python-list@python.org> <2Dkx9.42039$Lg2.11444432@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1036400645.4450.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aq6gl5$k20$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

"Phil Thompson" <phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:mailman.1036400645.4450.python-list at python.org...
<...snip...>
> > >The binary of PyQt for Qt NC is at
>> >http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/download.php
>>
>> So I get the binary (exe's) for both...run 'em and now I can do PyQt?
>
> Correct - so long as you conform to the license conditions.
>
> Phil

The license conditions sound awefully complex again. They assume a clear
separation between private and professional life, which I don't experience
as such. Although Eric looks nice, the license issues sound too
complicating, I prefer the openness of Python. This means I will have to
work with the clearly less powerfull but simple Idle

regards Gerrit
--
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/





From diltonm at pacbell.net  Fri Nov 22 13:15:32 2002
From: diltonm at pacbell.net (Dilton McGowan II)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:15:32 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <8vuD9.2706$nF2.182560030@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> I'm trying to figure out how WaitCommEvent() works in Python,
> and it looks like there's a problem when it's used in
> overlapped mode.
>
> My understanding is that (in C) you:
>
>  1) Call WaitCommEvent() and give it three parameters:
>      * File handle
>      * a pointer to where the output mask value is to be stored
>      * a pointer to an overlapped struct
>
>  2) WaitCommEvent() returns immediately.
>
>  3) Call one of the WaitXXX() functions to wait on the event in
>     the overloapped struct.
>
>  4) When the event is triggered WaitXXX() returns. Check the
>     value stored via the output mask pointer passed in 1)
>     above.
>
> [I've gleaned most of this from
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/devio/base/waitcommevent.asp]
>
>
> What I can't figure out: How is this supposed to work in Python?
>
>      1 /* File : win32file.i */
> [...]
>   2089 static PyObject *MyWaitCommEvent(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
>   2090 {
>   2091     PyObject *obHandle, *obOverlapped = Py_None;
>   2092     if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O|O",
>   2093             &obHandle, // @pyparm <o PyHANDLE>|handle||The handle
to the communications device.
>   2094             &obOverlapped))// @pyparm <o
PyOVERLAPPED>|overlapped||This structure is required if hFile was opened
with FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED.
>   2095             // <nl>If hFile was opened with FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED,
the lpOverlapped parameter must not be NULL. It must point to a valid
OVERLAPPED structure. If hFile was opened with FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED and
lpOverlapped is NULL, the function can incorrectly report that the operation
is complete.
>   2096             // <nl>If hFile was opened with FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED
and lpOverlapped is not NULL, WaitCommEvent is performed as an overlapped
operation. In this case, the OVERLAPPED structure must contain a handle to a
manual-reset event object (created by using the CreateEvent function).
>   2097             // <nl>If hFile was not opened with
FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED, WaitCommEvent does not return until one of the
specified events or an error occurs.
>   2098         return NULL;
>   2099     HANDLE handle;
>   2100     if (!PyWinObject_AsHANDLE(obHandle, &handle, FALSE))
>   2101         return NULL;
>   2102     OVERLAPPED *poverlapped;
>   2103     if (!PyWinObject_AsOVERLAPPED(obOverlapped, &poverlapped,
TRUE))
>   2104         return NULL;
>   2105     DWORD mask;
>   2106     BOOL ok;
>   2107     Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
>   2108     ok = WaitCommEvent(handle, &mask, poverlapped);
>   2109     Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
>   2110     DWORD rc = ok ? 0 : GetLastError();
>   2111     if (rc!=0 && rc != ERROR_IO_PENDING)
>   2112         return PyWin_SetAPIError("WaitCommError", rc);
>   2113     return Py_BuildValue("ll", rc, mask);
>   2114 }
>
> I've been looking at the sources above, and the output mask
> pointer passed in 1) points to a _local_ DWORD variable [lines
> 2105, 2108].  Right?
>
> When used in overlapped mode, WaitCommEvent returns before the
> event has happened (and therefore before the output mask value
> has been written). What happens when the event actually occurs
> [between 3) and 4) above] and Win32 writes the output mask
> value?  The mask pointer which Win32 has stashed away from the
> call at 1) is no longer valid.  I think.  Maybe.
>
> How _do_ you get the output mask value in overlapped mode in
> Python?
>
> In C, you do it by passing a mask pointer that points to a
> variable whose lifetime extends past the point in time when the
> event actually happens and the WaitXXX() call returns [and then
> you check the output mask value].
>
> Disclaimer: I'm a Unix guy and find the Win32 stuff to be
>             overly complex and baroque. Perhaps I haven't
>             understood the MSDN docs and the example C code
>             I've seen. If so, I'd be eternally grateful if you
>             could point me to decent docs for the Win32 serial
>             port API.
>
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Now KEN and
BARBIE
>                                   at               are PERMANENTLY
ADDICTED to
>                                visi.com            MIND-ALTERING DRUGS...

This is from a C++ port read method I wrote some time back. It works for
reading characters.
--------begin---------------
 BYTE Byte;
 DWORD dwCommModemStatus,
        dwBytesTransferred;

 // Specify a set of events to be monitored for the port.
 //SetCommMask (m_hPort, EV_RXCHAR | EV_CTS | EV_DSR | EV_RLSD | EV_RING);
 SetCommMask(m_hPort, EV_RXCHAR);

#ifdef _DEBUG
 cout << "\nAbout to wait for comm event" << endl;
#endif

 // Wait for an event to occur for the port.
 WaitCommEvent(m_hPort, &dwCommModemStatus, NULL);
// WaitCommEvent(m_hPort, &dwCommModemStatus, &m_overlapped);

#ifdef _DEBUG
 cout << "\nAfter wait for comm event " << endl;
#endif

 // Re-specify the set of events to be monitored for the port.
 //SetCommMask (m_hPort, EV_RXCHAR | EV_CTS | EV_DSR | EV_RING);
 SetCommMask(m_hPort, EV_RXCHAR);

 if (dwCommModemStatus & EV_RXCHAR)
 {
#ifdef _DEBUG
  cout << "\nIts a receive char" << endl;
#endif

  // Loop waiting for the data.
  int loop = 0, ret = 0;
  do
  {
   // Read the data from the serial port.
   ret = ReadFile(m_hPort, &Byte, 1, &dwBytesTransferred, 0);
   //ret = read((int) m_hPort, (void*) &Byte, 1);

   // Capture the data read.
   if (dwBytesTransferred == 1)
    byteArr[loop] = Byte;

   loop += 1;
   if(loop > MAX_RECV_BUF)
   {
#ifdef _DEBUG
 cerr << "Serial::PortRead() Exceeded buffer size." << endl;
 char msg[512];
 memset(msg, '\0', sizeof(msg));
 sprintf(msg, "Serial::PortRead() Exceeded buffer size.");
 AddToMessageLog(msg);
#endif
    return PORT_READ_ERROR;
   }

  } while (ret != 0 && dwBytesTransferred == 1);

  // Read the data from the serial port once more
  // to be sure no characters are left.
  ret = ReadFile(m_hPort, &Byte, 1, &dwBytesTransferred, 0);
 }

 return 0;
-----end-------------------




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 18 04:51:58 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:51:58 GMT
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A74E@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com> <mailman.1037589625.561.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2L2C9.22705$744.831937@news1.tin.it>

Michael Stenner wrote:
   ...
> I'm not convinced that it would be "worth it" to have "inline
> functions" or "auto-inlined code" or whatever you want to call it.
> That's what I'm trying to discuss.  I'm interested in your (and
> others') thoughts on the matter.  So far though, I find your claims
> that they would be useless unconvincing.

Let's try another tack -- how would it work?

def f(x):
    return g(x+1)

right now, the Python compiler is not ALLOWED to assume, when compiling 
this code, that name 'g' refers to whatever it's referring "RIGHT NOW", 
i.e., at compile-time -- indeed at the time the compilation is taking
place it's quite usual and typical for name g to be undefined-yet.

Python's semantics guarantee that g will be looked up AT RUN-TIME and call 
whatever callable is bound to name 'g' at the time of each call to f, quite 
possibly a different one each time.  g need not be a function -- it might
be an instance of any callable class, and then quite likely might be a
different instance upon different calls to f.

OK so far?  This is where we're starting from.  Now, what black magic
would you be willing to put up with, to enable the user to state that
g should not be called (despite the presence of the call-operator
"open and close parens":-) but rather "expanded"?  That's the issue
as I see it.

If g is a qualified name, as it often will be when using functions
defined in another module:

def ff(x):
    return gmod.gfun(x+1)

it becomes even murkier.  Do you think the huge irregularity
involved in "inline is only allowed for functions whose def
statement precede the inline-use in this very module" would be
an acceptable price to pay, for whatever modest benefits you
think having the compiler inline things rather than having to
do that yourself might bring?  The discussion needs to be split
in two alternative threads depending on this crucial decision.

If "inline" must only apply to functions whose "def" statement
is in this very module, then its miniscule applicability will
substantially reduce the benefits.  The costs in terms of
making the language more complicated are still there (nowhere
as large as in the more general case): defining precisely what
happens to scoping, who if anybody is allowed to rebind global
name 'g' in this module and what happens if they try, what
happens when the function object bound to name g is used in
any other way except calling it immediately, etc, etc.

If "inline" is to be of any measurable usefulness and therefore
also apply to functions imported from other modules, then we
need to introduce an entirely new concept of "compiletime
import" (as well as dealing with all the issues mentioned in
the above paragraph, further complicated by having to deal with
the various level of names in a qualified name).

Summarizing, my working hypothesis is NOT "inline would be
TOTALLY useless"; rather, it is, for either possible choice
regarding what functions inlining could apply to, the costs
and complications would be SO huge compared with the possible
benefits that it almost defies belief that somebody would
propose such changes in earnest.

Analogy: suppose the UN came up with a plan to distribute a
small piece of mint candy to every single person in the world.

Would that be COMPLETELY useless?  No: SOME people in the
world like mint candy, or have never been able to taste it
(being appallingly poor) and would like it if they could; so,
ignoring the costs for an instant, overall human happiness
MIGHT be ehanced by implementing such a plan (despite the risks
of some people misusing their candy, e.g. by eating it when
they have diabetes and shouldn't) -- it's at least possible.

However, the costs and complications are so obviously huge --
just the logistics involved are staggering -- compared with
the miniscule benefits, that it defies belief that anybody
would seriously entertain such a notion in earnest, particularly
when thinking of the many other obvious ways those enormous resources
might be used, could they be summoned, to enhance overall human happiness 
(e.g. by fighting hygiene problems, illnesses, and malnutrition, rather 
than focusing all of those resources on distributing mint candy).

So, I would not feel moved to criticize somebody who described such a plan 
as "useless", even though the term is not strictly and literally applicable.


Alex



From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Wed Nov 27 07:49:48 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 12:49:48 GMT
Subject: what does is ?
References: <3de4a6dd$0$86531$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <slrnau9cep.tk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <3DE4B96D.1060808@Linux.ie>
Message-ID: <slrnau9fl9.hk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

Padraig Brady <Padraig at Linux.ie> wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>> Jonas Geiregat <kemu at sdf-eu.org> wrote:
>> 
>>>I saw something
>>>import string
>>>string._StringType is str
>>>what does this specially that IS
>> 
>> The "is" operator compares object *identity*, rather than equality, which
>> the "==" operator does.
> 
> Well why does the following happen on 2.2?
> Is Python being clever about merging variables?
> 
> s1="123"
> s2=s1[:]
> s1 is s2 #true?

Yes. Certain strings (not all) are being "interned". And certain ints (not all)
are interned, too:

 >>> a = 5
 >>> b = 10/2
 >>> a is b
 1
 >>> x = 1000000000000
 >>> y = 2000000000000 / 2
 >>> x is y
 0

But it seems to me that the [:] slicing has an additional optimization, apart
from interning.
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From theller at python.net  Thu Nov 21 06:25:27 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 12:25:27 +0100
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <arfgtg$fhj$1@Fourier.suse.de> <7kf83526.fsf@python.net> <95959723.0211201844.7ce3458@posting.google.com> <1037851388.29783@yasure>
Message-ID: <lm3nupug.fsf@python.net>

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> writes:

> Quoth hansgeunsmeyer at earthlink.net (hg):
> ...
> | As far as I understand it, it doesn't really matter _what_ the thread
> | state is that you swap into the current state before you do the
> | callback, as long as it is _some_ valid thread state (not NULL). So,
> | before you do the callback, at any moment when you're in the main
> | Python thread, you could store a pointer to the then current
> | threadstate.
> 
> Why are there multiple thread states, then?  If we might as well just
> use the existing state of any thread, it seems like we are put to a
> lot of trouble to hunt one up.

The thread state is, well, the state of a thread. So at least they
cannot be shared across threads.

I had multiple other schemes saving thread states when calling out to
C from Python, and getting thread states when calling back into Python
from C, including stacks of thread states in thread local storage.
Some of them worked, some were fragile.

The current scheme (saving it in a local var when calling 'out' and
creating a new one when calling 'in') works well, also for
multithreaded programs. It's also the one used (I believe) in Mark's
win32all.

There are some drawbacks with this approach as far as I can see: First
a performance hit, because thread states are frequently created and
destroyed again.

Second, profiling and setting breakpoints won't work across callouts
and callins because the profiling and tracing is done with objects
stored in the thread state itself, and creating a new one doesn't
inherit them from the saved state. This also affects exceptions, which
are not propagated back into the 'callout' from the 'callin'.

Hm, can anyone understand the last sentence?
What I mean is: When an exception occurs in the callback (which runs
with a newly created thread state), simply PyErr_Print() is called
before the thread state is deleted, because there's no way to pass
the exception somewhere else.

Thomas


From adam at gliwice.pl  Fri Nov 15 19:34:42 2002
From: adam at gliwice.pl (Adam Przybyla)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:34:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: module to generate RTF?
References: <xqxbs4qwhm1.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <ar43r2$b89$2@news.tpi.pl>

Harry George <hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com> wrote:
> We need to traverse a database, and generate a Word document.  If we
> do that via COM, we are locked into running on a MS WIn** box, so we'd
> prefer to do RTF.  I can generate the raw RTF codes inline with write
> statements, but it would be nice if someone had already done some
> syntactic sugar on that.  Anything available?
	... XML+python -> docbook -> rtf ;-) Regards
								Adam Przybyla


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sat Nov 23 21:06:18 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:06:18 -0800
Subject: Simple Checkbutton Question? Please....
References: <b4d1dd0c.0211222100.26876625@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <q6cpra.nn4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Josiah fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 22 November 2002 09:00 
pm:

> What am I doing wrong in this sample? When I press the "status"
> button, the printout shows that "self.var.get()" returns a "0" weather
> the box is checked or not! Help please.
> Thanks!

        Bloody web-posting users... I can't identify what architecture you are 
running under so I have to be blunt and demanding.

        WHAT OS? WHAT Python version?

        I just copied your source to a file under Mandrake 8.2, and ran it...

[wulfraed at beastie wulfraed]$ python t.py
1
0
1

        Nothing wrong here, except that I don't know which graphic is 
"checked" vs "unchecked" -- the empty (white) hole, or the protruding 
(grey) mound

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From 2002 at weholt.org  Mon Nov  4 07:53:41 2002
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:53:41 GMT
Subject: Need simple algorithm for newbie
References: <d1a9617c.0211040433.1eddb118@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <p5ux9.531$P35.13552@news2.ulv.nextra.no>

Don't know how optimized this is, but it's start :

import string

addresses = ['groups.google.com', 'ftp.google.com', 'ftp.google.net',
'whatever.google.org']
parsed_result = {}
for address in addresses:
    parsed_result[address[string.index(address, '.')+1:]] = None
print parsed_result.keys()

Thomas

"Jason Tudisco" <tudisco at sexmagnet.com> wrote in message
news:d1a9617c.0211040433.1eddb118 at posting.google.com...
> I have a list of domains... Some of the domain names in the list look
> like this:
>
> groups.goodle.com
>
> The information I want is just google.com. I need to know the best way
> to do this.. for .com .net .org only.. and to strip the rest of the
> garbage.. like in this case.. get rid of groups in groups.google.com
>
> I need to parse though a huge list so it has to be optimized algorithm
>
> No need to write complete code.. Just get me in the right direccion..
> Still learning python and I am not sure what would be the fastest way
> to go about it..




From d_blade8 at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 13 14:36:11 2002
From: d_blade8 at hotmail.com (Lemniscate)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 11:36:11 -0800
Subject: calendar modules
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk> <slrnat4sfj.19g.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <7396d2b2.0211131136.160ee567@posting.google.com>

Absolutely correct.  However, you can save a teensy bit of typing by
using prmonth instead.  For example:

>>> calendar.prmonth(1976, 10)
    October 1976
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
                1  2
 3  4  5  6  7  8  9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
>>> 

btw, I set the deafult first weekday to Sunday.
>>> calendar.setfirstweekday(6)

Have fun,

Lem




Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote in message news:<slrnat4sfj.19g.gerhard.haering at haering.opus-gmbh.net>...
> In article <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000 at sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk>, Geiger Ho wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> >   Wondering around the modules, I find that "calendar" does not function
> > well in MS Windows. When I type "calendar.month(2002,11)", it outputs a
> > string
> > 
> > '    November 2002\nMo Tu We Th Fr Sa Su\n             1  2  3\n 4  5  6
> > 7  8  9 10\n11 12 13 14 15 16 17\n18 19 20 21 22 23 24\n25 26 27 28 29
> > 30\n'
> > 
> > but rather in proper formating.
> 
> Try "print calendar.month(2002, 11)" instead of the implicit repr that's called
> in your case.
> 
> > This seems calendar module is not platform
> 
> It is.


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Nov 13 16:55:06 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:55:06 -0800
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037219902.17042.python-list@python.org> <3DD2C505.96B41A1C@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-EE81B8.13550613112002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3DD2C505.96B41A1C at hotmail.com>,
 Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Cameron Horn wrote:
> 
> > If I want to write an empty generator, I write this(?):
> > def foo():
> >   return
> >   yield "never"
> 
> What is the semantic of "an empty generator", i.e. what does it mean? A
> generator that never generates any values?

What I wonder is, why does it need to be a generator?  What's wrong with
def foo(): return ( )
?

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Fri Nov  1 09:50:57 2002
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 14:50:57 GMT
Subject: could python serve web scripts ?
References: <mailman.1036123142.8986.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <apu4ch$pserl$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

black <blackprogramming at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Howdy~

>   I'm learning ASP these days and bothered VBScript much, I want to kick it off and I wonder if Python could be substitution. and what about other scripts if not, thanx~

Have a look at the WebWare: http://webware.f.net
Havn't tried it myself, but it looks very promising.

Greetings, Uwe
-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt      Computer science is no more about Computers,
uwe.schmitt at num.uni-sb.de      than astronomy is about telescopes. (Dijkstra)
http://www.procoders.net           


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 13 11:39:55 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:39:55 -0600
Subject: os.system and wget
References: <7d728336.0211130756.3e39a748@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2isz1e84k.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "zunbeltz" == zunbeltz  <zunlatex at hotmail.com> writes:

    zunbeltz> os.system('wget -q -O foo.txt http://foo.html')

You may want to look at the popen commands:
http://python.org/doc/current/lib/os-newstreams.html#os-newstreams.

For your example:

  import os
  h = os.popen('wget -q -O foo1.txt http://foo.html')
  h.close()
  s = open('foo1.txt').read()

Also, for the specific case of wget, python's builtin urllib can
provide a bunch of these services

  import urllib
  h = urllib.urlretrieve('http://foo.html', 'foo2.txt')

Or if you want to work with the returned data directly in python, you
can use urlopen, which returns a filehandle

  h = urllib.urlopen('http://foo.html')
  for line in h.readlines():
     print line

You can get fancier (cookies, recursive retrieval).  See websucker as
an example python script built around urllib that has much of the wget
functionality: http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/websucker.htm.
If you have the python src, you'll find it in the src tree at
Tools/webchecker/websucker.py

John Hunter


From abcdebl2 at bellatlantic.net  Sun Nov 10 17:16:49 2002
From: abcdebl2 at bellatlantic.net (David Lees)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:16:49 GMT
Subject: Commercial scale space tourism
References: <aqm5g2$76e$1@ultra.kfki.hu>
Message-ID: <3DCEDAD3.5C04CC0@bellatlantic.net>

Victor,

You are definitely on the right track, but your herpatological
background appears weak.  The Indian rope trick, is associated with a
Cobra, not Python, so your post here in c.l.p is clearly accidental.  I
am sure if you learn more about Cobras, snake charming, the Indian rope
trick and Fakir magic in general, you will be successful. Further,
Fakirs are well known for performance of levitation, so it is not quite
clear why you need 10 million, when tickets are usually in the range of
10 to 20 dollars.  Plus, there is no need to wait 2 years when
performances are available in most metropolitan areas.  On the other
hand be careful not to giver fakers a bad name.  

You may want to be carefull that your brilliant ideas are not stolen by
others.  For example, a new movie is opening on Friday (Harry Potter and
the Chamber of Secrets), which appears to be a Hollywood ripoff stealing
much of your work without giving you any credit.

Finally, I want to strongly suggest you use the web to promote yourself
by registering at a site which is an excellent match to your needs:

http://www.crank.net/antigravity.html


david lees


VR wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> My name is Victor Rozsnyay, CEO of Gravity Control Technologies. For the
> last 5 years my company has been developing aerospace technology capable of
> controlling gravity for flight. Such technology would be instrumental in
> introducing commercial scale space tourism flights within the next decade.
> Everyone would have the opportunity of visiting space.
<snip>


From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Fri Nov  1 12:05:54 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:05:54 GMT
Subject: could python serve web scripts ?
References: <mailman.1036123142.8986.python-list@python.org> <0Zow9.3620$mN6.1025961@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Svyw9.3702$mN6.1075420@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
news:0Zow9.3620$mN6.1025961 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> "black" <blackprogramming at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1036123142.8986.python-list at python.org...
> Howdy~
>  I'm learning ASP these days and bothered VBScript much, I want to kick it
> off and I wonder if Python could be substitution.
>
> you can use Python for active server pages.  here's an example how ...
>
> #-------------------------------
> <%@ Language=Python %>
> #--------------------------------
>

<to-me-via-email>
> thanx much !!! but I know not much on how to
> control ASP with Python, any tutorials or links
> please ???  and my database is SQL server, could
> it connect with Python too  ???
</to-me-via-email>

for an example of using ADO w/ Python see www.e-coli.net/pyado.html, for
other ways, search this newsgroup for a message from Oct 29 with the subject
"Using Python with Microsoft SQL Server"

<a-second-email>
> sorry that I tried the code but ASP refused it. it
> says "script language Python couldnt be found in your
> server", how to fix it please ?
</a-second-email>

Have you installed Python?  you must do it in one of two ways.  either
install Python + win32all (available from www.python.org) or install
ActivePython from www.activestate.com.

In general, please post to the newsgroup or to the newsgroup + email rather
than email alone.  also, most beginner questions can be answered easily via
a google groups search.  however, if you can't find an answer, then by all
means post here.

good luck,

-d





From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Nov 13 18:54:02 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 01:54:02 +0200
Subject: wxPython program failing after upgrade
References: <ut5re93g8s0556@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92C613893E18Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Blake Garretson" <blakeg at metalink.net> wrote in
news:ut5re93g8s0556 at corp.supernews.com: 

> I upgraded to wxPython 2.3.3.1 using the precompiled win32 binary, and
> now my wx program won't work.  (I previously used 2.3.2.1)  I'm using
> a DC client to draw some graphics, and it fails when it goes to
> refresh the screen.  Here's the error that shows up in a popup dialog:
> 
> """
> c:\projects\wx\src\msw\dcclient.cpp(216): assert "wxFalse" failed:
> wxPaintDC may be created only in EVT_PAINT handler!
> Do you want to stop the program?
> """

i think you need to use a exClientDC outside of the paint method. or in 
other words when an other thread is drawing to the screen.
 
> (By the way, that path doesn't exist on my machine!)

thats normal. the "assert" messages are compiled in so they have the path 
of the source during compilation.

> Then another error gets printed to stderr:
> 
> """
>   File "C:\Python222\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\gdi.py", line 607, in
> DrawText
>     val = apply(gdic.wxDC_DrawText,(self,) + _args, _kwargs)
> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
> """

there should be more, like the location of the exception in your program. 
print the values you use at that line. maybe you're realy drawing somwhere 
outside screen and just have not discovered that yet?

> Any ideas what's going on here?

as you said, you have upgraded ;-) the old version of wxPython might be a 
bit more tolerant to bad values at some places. whatever, i have upgraded 
to that version of wx and had to correct some small issues so that it runs 
on the old and new version, but now it runs fine.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From ods at strana.ru  Tue Nov 12 07:22:10 2002
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:22:10 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Cyrillic letters in 'Entry' widget
In-Reply-To: <j4smy89f77.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0211121518540.14221-100000@localhost.localdomain>

On 11 Nov 2002, Martin v. [iso-8859-1] L?wis wrote:

MvL> "Bobirkhon Ismailov" <bismailov at uzavtoyul.uz> writes:
MvL>
MvL> > I am trying to enter cyrillic letters in text entry
MvL> widgets, but it
MvL> > looks like trash. I was wondering if is there any way to
MvL> display entered
MvL> > characters correctly on screen.
MvL>
MvL> Did you read my reply to your previous message?
MvL>
MvL> >>> import Tkinter
MvL> >>> t=Tkinter.Entry()
MvL> >>> t.pack()
MvL> >>> t.insert(0,u'\N{CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER ZHE}\u0437')
MvL> >>>
MvL>
MvL> works fine for me. What does that give for you?

This helps for output only.  To recieve input you need patching
Tkinter: http://prefnews.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Nov 27 14:27:43 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:27:43 -0500
Subject: *args and **kwargs
References: <uLUE9.5581$kz4.355569@news2.west.cox.net> <87d6orq0oz.fsf@uiuc.edu> <_S7F9.14648$kz4.657484@news2.west.cox.net> <slrnauah8l.199.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <uua74vslp5f021@news.supernews.com>

"Wojtek Walczak" <gminick at hacker.pl> wrote in message
news:slrnauah8l.199.gminick at hannibal.localdomain...
> Dnia Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:08:58 GMT, Dan napisa?(a):
> > thanks for the answer specifically for "args".  Still I don't quite
> > understand the Python syntax.
> >
> > *something = encapsulate into a set   ??
> > **something = encapsulate into a Dictionary??
> Yes, but only when defining a function.
> You can call a function in two ways (depends on a way it was defined):
>
> def first(**a):
>    print "\n".join([ "%s==%s" % (k,v) for k,v in a.items()])
>
> first(a="b",b="c",c="d")
>
>
> def second(a):
>    print "\n".join([ "%s==%s" % (k,v) for k,v in a.items()])
>
> second({"a":"b", "b":"c", "c":"d"})
>
> In first case you know, that you need to pass a dictionary from
> function's declaration (seeing **a just tells you that). In second
case,
> you don't, you need to take a look at code or documentation.
> Maybe not at all, but, for sure, in some way that strange construction
> is about readability.

I don't believe that's the case. What the * and ** constructions do
is give a name to a tuple and dictionary, respectively, that contain
extra positional and keyword parameters. Notice the word 'extra'
here, it's important.

On the calling side, they allow you to create a sequence and a
dictionary that contain the positional and keyword parameters. As one
of the posters says, it's a shortcut for the apply() built-in function,
and one that Guido prefers. He's said he wants to get rid of (or at
least depreciate) apply().

The fact that the function definition contains either * or ** has
nothing to do with how you call it.

John Roth
>
> --
> [ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/
[ ]
> [ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje
najlepiej." ]




From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Fri Nov 29 18:22:08 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 23:22:08 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <j60auu0ms3i8e3oihtfold855at9gnglfg@4ax.com> <as3bcc$ek5$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <3DE7F792.6040004@nyc.rr.com>


maney at pobox.com wrote:
> Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>>One of Lisp's _lethal_ failings is that anyone not using Emacs (or
>>something like Emacs) is a second class citizen. The decision to
>>require a programmer to use a special editor is a fatal one.
> 
> 
> But perhaps an unavoidable one.

I have been doing CL nonstop for seven years and have yet to learn 
Emacs, tho I /did/ use MCLs emacs-like editor and I do have ACLs editor 
in "Emacs mode". But this just has to do with the key combos being the 
same, not the whole nine yards. and with acl i do not even have to do 
emacs mode.

No matter what Lisp IDE you use (LW, ACL, Corman, MCL) you'll get a 
Lisp-aware editor, the way IDLE is Python-aware.

> I have never before seen the true reason
> Lisp's annoying parentheses-plagued syntax has persisted, let alone why
> it might be worth putting up with.

If you ever get out of the starting blocks, the parentheses will 
disappear (but make editing much easier). Python code looks nice and 
clean thx to the indentation thang, but Lisp code is self-indenting thx 
to the parens. ie, I can select as big a function I like and just say 
re-indent, and I'm done. And because Lisp is self indenting, when i hit 
tab (telling it to reindent that line, not insert a tab) I can see at 
one if I have typed too few or not enough parens. This happens rarely 
because any matching parens is highlighted after I type a parens, so I 
just look around if I lose track or get way deep into an expression and 
need several parens to get out.

The bottom line is that no regular Lisper is bothered by parens and in 
fact we all prefer them thanks to their facilitation of editing chunks 
of code (by double-clicking a form of any size).


-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From stuart at bmsi.com  Fri Nov  8 22:55:23 2002
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:55:23 GMT
Subject: Getting SSL certificate
References: <aeGy9.15988$6b.572415@news2.east.cox.net> <m3smycjztc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <kuisz8bhne.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <j48z04z2wy.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <LG%y9.21231$6b.825832@news2.east.cox.net>

On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:01:01 -0500, Martin v. L?wis wrote:

> Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> writes:
> 
>> || The httplib modules supports SSL, but does not check certificates.
> 
> Can you please explain what it means to check a certificate?

I know of two level of checking:

  1) an automatic level that verifies all digital signatures on the cert
	this tells you that someone registered the cert with the CA, and it
	has not been forged (presumably the SSL protocol signs some random data
	unique to the session along with the cert to prevent replay).

  2) a manual level where a person or high level program checks that the
	name on the certificate is one they expect, or feel like trusting.

In my case, there is only one cert that the application will trust - but
I need to make sure it hasn't been forged.

>> and cert_file was for a certificate authority that the server cert
>> should be checked against. but it is a faint impression :)

That would make sense, but the docs say that checking the server certificate
is not implemented.

>> in case it is so, this still does not let you at the server
>> certificate...

> Is there a missing here?

Definitely, because even if the checking for level (1) above were
automatic (as the arguments seem intended for), the application still
needs to get at the server certificate in some form to check that they
are talking to the right entity.  Anybody and their dog can get a signed
certificate.  (And I remember a Slashdot story about someone getting a
certificate for their dog to illustrate how weak the checking at Verisign
is.)

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Nov 15 12:05:03 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:05:03 -0600
Subject: A really bad idea.
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E0A1D2@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Daniel Dittmar [mailto:daniel.dittmar at sap.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 10:43 AM
> 
> holger krekel wrote:
> > But in fact i'd like to see some examples of what is readable and
> > what is not readable in your oppinion.
> 
> zip, enumerate: readable, because you can search the docs for 
> the words. It is also easy to implement variations: returning
> other datatypes, returning an iterator to preserve memory. Thus
> the whole program becomes easier to understand because similar
> task are called in a similar way.
> 
> list comprehension: not readable, because you don't know what to
> search for.  You can't create dictionary comprehension or generator 
> comprehension (both have been proposed on c.l.p), thus making the
> resulting program less regular.
> 
> Daniel
>

But these are your *opinions*.  And while valid, others on the
same list (or lists) have expressed nothing but rave reviews on
the same things you don't like.

So, what to do?
Macros, a-la Lisp, so anyone can have whatever syntax they want?
A mishmash of features, like Perl?

-gustavo



From roy at panix.com  Fri Nov  8 21:17:10 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 21:17:10 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9b8hqa.eo3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqhmib$ei8$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <eppstein-DC177C.17122508112002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <roy-972F14.21171008112002@reader1.panix.com>

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
> The most important similarity I see is that in both languages, 
> values have types but variables are untyped, but that was also true in 
> radically different languages such as Snobol and APL; is that really 
> enough to conclude that Python and Lisp are more like each other than 
> anything else?

The biggest lisp-like thing I see in Python is that from the point of 
view of what a container can hold, data and code (and classes, and 
modules, and types) are the same kind of thing.  A "def" statement is 
really just a definition of a lambda body and an assignment of that to a 
name (variable) all rolled into one.

That being said, I agree with David; only a computer scientist 
interested in language theory would consider Python and Lisp to be 
similar.


From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Wed Nov 20 00:46:24 2002
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:46:24 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.11.20.04.16.26.459889@mn.rr.com>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
 <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
 <mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnasuojg.l14.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20021119210841.02456d70@pop.hurrah.com>

At 08:15 PM 11/19/2002 Tuesday, Anna wrote:
>On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:50:57 +0000, Robin Munn wrote:
>
> > Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >> I'm certainly amazed at the tolerance people have for questions that
> >> are readily answered in a number of on-line tutorials, and in both the
> >> Python books that I have (Learning Python and the Python Cookbook). In
> >> the end, the friendly attitude may be the killer feature.
> >
> > Out of curiosity, do you think a response like: "That's covered in the
> > Python tutorial -- look at [URL]" will strike a newbie as friendly or
> > not? I ask because that's the kind of answer I will tend to write when
> > I'm in a hurry. Sometimes I will take the time to phrase the answer in
> > my own words, but often I won't want to duplicate the work that someone
> > else has already done in writing that tutorial. So if you were a newbie
> > getting a curt response like that, would you feel it was a brushoff, or
> > would you feel like your question had been answered?
>
>Okay - you asked. And since I am a newbie, I?ll answer.
>
>Before asking a question here, I?d have already read the tutorial (and
>probably 3 more tutorials and done a google search too). I wouldn?t feel
>comfortable asking here unless I had.
>
>So if I?m still here asking, it?s because I need an answer that *isn?t*
>just a reference to the tutorial, something from a live human being... So,
>yeah, I guess I would consider it a brushoff, unless you took the time to
>expand on the tutorial in some way... Personally, I?d far rather get no
>answer than ?RTFM, silly newbie?... cuz chances are, I already did...
>
>Just my $.03 worth.
>
>Anna

I think it's okay to refer the newbie to a specific page in the manual,
in the form of a url, if that is providing useful information, and isn't a
brushoff like "RTFM".  When I ask a question on a newsgroup, my
favorite responses are often urls.  The main problem newbies have
with documentation is that there is so much of it, and it is usually not
obvious which "FM" to read.  The important thing is for us to avoid
the impulse to make a potential python fanatic feel unwelcome.  It's
not so much whether the newbie is being referred to a manual, but
the underlying message: Are we saying, "You fool, stop wasting our
precious time...", or "Here, I hope this helps, enjoy...".

Ken





From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Tue Nov 12 13:37:34 2002
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 10:37:34 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <b0f083db.0211121037.104ba6c3@posting.google.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672 at news1.tin.it>...

> Hmmm, on a slightly different tack, this DOES help me articulate one
> source of my slight reluctance to get really deep into Ruby: Ruby
> gives the programmer just a little bit MORE dynamicity/flexibility/
> power than Python, by messing with the fundamentals of built-ins and
> passing "unevaluated code blocks" to methods (that's how you do
> iterators in Ruby, while Python's iterators are utterly different) --
> although that's still not a full-fledged macro system, I may be
> subconsciously worrying that the little extra power IS just enough
> to get into "newbie cravings" territory.

I asked Matz about this at LL2 on Saturday.  I asked if he could think
of examples where he wanted to change the language syntax.  He said
the blocks were powerful enough that they could accomodate new
features without syntax change.

The question came up in the context of a recurring debate over the
utility of macros.  I noted that as a Python developer, I'd love to
have access to macros to experiment with new syntax without having to
munge the grammar and compiler.

Jeremy


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Nov 13 22:25:43 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 21:25:43 -0600
Subject: Visual programming, looking for graphics layer
Message-ID: <1037244343.1825.113.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

All the language discussions got me to thinking, and I was thinking of
Logo and got a bit of an itch.  After implementing a little Logo
interpreter, I wanted to do something more novel and interesting, like
Boxer.  In the extremely likely case you don't know anything about
Boxer, the website is at:

  http://www.soe.berkeley.edu/boxer/

It's a neat teaching language, where it has some graphical ways to
present programming structure.  Sadly its only available for Macs, and I
don't know if development is active.  But I've put up a little graphic
taken from one of the papers (and fixed up a bit) to give a feel:

  http://colorstudy.com/tmp/boxer-capture.gif

Basically to indicate structure there are boxes (hence the name) that
contain code.  So the code:

def sum(number_list):
    number = 0
    for n in number_list:
        number += n
    return number

Might look like:

+------------------+
| sum(number_list) |
+------------------+--------------------+
|                                       |
| number = 0                            |
| for n in number_list +-------------+  |
|                      | number += n |  |
|                      +-------------+  |
| return number                         |
|                                       |
|  +--------+                           |
|  | number |                           |
| /----------\                          |
| | 0        |                          |
| \----------/                          |
|                                       |
+---------------------------------------+

Of course, in this case I use Python-like syntax, and some of the
semantics are kind of fuzzy.  Like "number" is initialized, but it's
value is also tracked (nice for debugging) -- it's as though every local
variable is a C-style static variable.  There's lots of details to be
worked out with the semantics, but that's not what I'm asking about
here.

The hard part is that this sort of layout is fairly hard to do.  Not
only do you have text inside different sorts of boxes, but an important
part of the language is that you also have non-text literals (like
colors and shapes, and even lists may be represented in a graphical
fashion).  All these need to be manipulatable.

I'm hoping to get some advice or pointers on something already available
that can make this easier.  I could use pygame, maybe even with pyui,
but that's still a long way from what I'd have to do for even the most
minimal functionality.  I've also had a hard time understanding pyui's
architecture -- there's something magic in there and I can't tell where
things actually get *done*... but I'm sure that's surmountable.  Maybe
that's where I should be looking.

Any of the GUI kits (Tkinter, wxWindows, etc) aren't nearly flexible
enough, except maybe things like Tk's canvas, or other equivalent
widgets.  Do any of these offer functionality that would help in making
this editing environment?

Looking forward to suggestions...
  Ian




From knepley at mcs.anl.gov  Fri Nov 22 09:23:08 2002
From: knepley at mcs.anl.gov (Matthew Knepley)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:23:08 -0600
Subject: int() shortcoming?
Message-ID: <y8h3cptpttf.fsf@spinetta.mcs.anl.gov>

       Is there a reason I should have to specify the base for a string
conversion using int() when it is already clear from the form? For instance:

>>> oct(15)
'017'
>>> int('017')
17
>>> int('017', 8)
15

and hexidecimal actually generates an error.

    Thanks,

        Matt
-- 
"Failure has a thousand explanations. Success doesn't need one" -- Sir Alec Guiness


From mark.charsley at REMOVE_THIS.radioscape.com  Mon Nov 25 08:32:00 2002
From: mark.charsley at REMOVE_THIS.radioscape.com (Mark Charsley)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:32 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <memo.20021125133212.1672A@a.radioscape.com>

In article <mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list at python.org>, 
tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy) wrote:

> I assume you're coming from C++. In that case, I suggest you take a good
> hard look at why you want to write inline functions/methods anyway. If
> you're doing it for performance reasons, your compiler is almost 
> certainly
> going to be better at deciding what to inline, and has the option to do 
> so
> unless you explicitly tell it not to. If you're doing for any other 
> reason
> (such as putting code in header files) I strongly advise against it.
> 
> Inline was developed when computers were slower and compilers were more
> stupid. These days I see no need to inline whatsoever.

While blatantly off-topic, inlining in C++ has two advantages:
- saves the expense of a function call
- gives the compiler visibility into the function giving it vastly greater 
optimisation opportunities.

The first is usually insignificant even in C++, so if performance is that 
important, one shouldn't use Python (ooh look: briefly on-topic). The last 
is of major importance and is more important with today's smart compilers 
than it was years ago with dumb optimisers.

Mark


From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov  7 06:03:07 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:03:07 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com> <mailman.1036601108.23735.python-list@python.org> <sA6q3WAW5Uy9Ew4K@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <20021106184401.X30315@prim.han.de> <mailman.1036608261.5045.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3y985zlu2.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> As you point out psyco can do the compilation, but only into the generic
> multiply (unless psyco can be hinted in some way).

You hint pysco by calling the function with ints :)

I hadn't appreciated how clever psyco was until I went to Armin's
EuroPython talk.  You can get the slides at psyco.sf.net, but I can't
remember how much of the interesting stuff was in the slides and how
much was in what he said.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  This song is for anyone ... fuck it.  Shut up and listen.
                         -- Eminem, "The Way I Am"


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 26 09:59:19 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 14:59:19 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <arsni0$pnk$1@news.netpower.no> <slrnau4sle.9as.grante@localhost.localdomain> <sss5uus0o18jtdi2lcpp3605vfgscmvmum@4ax.com> <slrnau5u4i.9ei.grante@localhost.localdomain> <me46uu0vhkk6sg5nupchn109m3ih7k1b9t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <as0287$osc$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:23:24 GMT, Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> wrote:

>
>>I find lambda quite useful for creating simple anonymous functions to pass
>>to GUIs as button commands and the like.
>
>Simple indeed. It's a consequence of the Python syntactic structure that lambdas
>shall _always_ be nothing more than a tiny little sub language in which certain
>normal Python expressions can never occur.
>
Well, you could write

     new.function(compile('print "anonymous hi"','','exec'),{})

if no one wants to pursue anonymous-def-as-expression ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Nov  4 17:30:11 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 14:30:11 -0800
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
In-Reply-To: <slrnasdp3o.u7k.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>
Message-ID: <003a01c28451$bcc3a130$21795418@dell1700>

> No, it doesn't, because I didn't know of this page or, apparently,
> grok the real purpose of system.methodSignature; I thought it
> documented the signature of the underlying (Python) callable, not the
> xmlrpc method itself. 

> I can't find definitive specs for the system
> methods -- most web resources cite the currently nonexistent
> http://xmlrpc.usefulinc.com/doc/reserved.html -- but I now see
> that Eric Kidd's listMethods implementation is probably meant to
> behave as you suggest.

Yeah, it's weird that that URL is no longer valid. Fortunately I was
privileged enough to read it before it died :-)

> My module may be correct were it to implement system.methodHelp so
> that it return both the Python method signature (as opposed to the
> xmlrpc method signature) and the docstring, while ceasing to
> automatically implement system.methodSignature; but should I bother?
> Does anyone actually call this method programmatically as part of a
> discovery routine, or is it only useful as human-readable
> documentation, in which case conformance to the "spec", such as it is,
> is arguably not of great importance?

In my implementation, I don't include the signature with
system.methodHelp. My feeling was that most python doc strings include
the method signature, if it is relevant.

I'm not sure that anyone uses system.methodSignature, but I wouldn't use
that name if the used is non-standard.

Cheers,
Brian 




From maney at pobox.com  Sat Nov 30 16:49:53 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:49:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <as9m7v$mjf$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <asbbq0$icu$2@wheel2.two14.net>

Sean McSomething <ahmebah at hotmail.com> wrote:
  ...
> Of course, this could all be complete & utter bullshit, but it's a
> reasonable extrapolation from what facts I have & my understanding of
> things.

Trying to intuit the often arbitrary, or at any rate highly contingent,
reasons for what actually happened is one of those beyond-NP-hard
problems.  :-/

There are certainly some correct bits in your reconstruction: some
features are present in the C language and/or came to be commonly used
at least in part because of code size and speed considerations.  The
op-assign (+=, et. al.) were largely present to take advantage of PDP
instructions that could do that to most any two operands in one op;
even with that, though, both the desire to get that efficency with a
small, relatively brainless compiler as well as the notational
efficency were probably important factors.

In the case of operator=, I'm afraid your proposed motivation is more
of a chimera.  The real roots of this are almost certainly to be found
in C's pre-history as a simplified version of the BCPL language, in which
*everything*, including statements, had a value.  This is very likely
the original cause of both operator= and the conditional operator?:. 
The latter provides, in more limited form, something that BCPL could do
with an if/else statement inside one of it's valof blocks.

C's backstory in BCPL (by way of an even less wisely known language
named 'B') also explains the otherwise cryptic comment (by Ritchie?)
about the uncertainty over whether C's hypothetical successor (this was
before C++, but that wasn't exactly a successor to C anyway) should be
named 'D' or 'P'.  Programmer humor.  :-/

Actually, though, didn't the notion of operator= come out of Algol? 
<prayers are sent to Ghugle; his replies are interpeted>  Ooops, no,
that was just "assignment spelled differently than equality test". 
Never mind!


From mwh at python.net  Fri Nov 15 08:08:29 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:08:29 GMT
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org> <yu99u1ijeehm.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <7h3d6p7xelx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <adkbqbc4.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <7h3u1ijvv9q.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:
> 
> > C without it's library would get a rating of "useless"... guess this
> > is true for most languages, but C more than most.
> > 
> Not at all, imo. You just have to write the library yourself,
> and you *can* do it in C.

I guess... but not portably, surely?

Anyway, it meant to be a serious comment, just the observation that C
puts very little into the language and (relatively speaking) more in
the stdlib.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  ... when all the programmes on all the channels actually were made
  by actors with cleft pallettes speaking lines by dyslexic writers
  filmed by blind cameramen instead of merely seeming like that, it
  somehow made the whole thing more worthwhile.   -- HHGTG, Episode 11


From schlenk at uni-oldenburg.de  Tue Nov 12 18:38:36 2002
From: schlenk at uni-oldenburg.de (Michael Schlenker)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:38:36 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DD11E7F.C12E708A@man.ac.uk> <LRaA9.1325$J55.292310@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net> <3dd17f27$0$195$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <aqs2vm$cuehl$1@ID-102549.news.dfncis.de>

MikkelFJ wrote:
> Sorry for the repost at perl, I didn't release the post was crossposted (I
> entered via Ruby).
> 
> 
> "Neil Madden" <nem00u at cs.nott.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:LRaA9.1325$J55.292310 at newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
> 
> 
>>Hmm.. the more I think about this, the more problems it seems to present.
> 
> I'd
> 
>>love to be able to write an extension, and have it instantly work with x
>>different langauges. Also, I'd love to be able to use Python and Perl
>>extensions from Tcl, without loading seperate interpreters and all that.
> 
> Am I
> 
>>dreaming of an impossible Utopia?
> 
> 
> I wrote some DLL helper logic that makes it easy to query a vtable by name
> in another DLL.
> The vtables can be created in whatever way, but the vtable is not assocated
> with allocated memory, as is the case with COM. This makes it quite flexible
> without really being limited because one could decide that the first
> function should return a 'this' pointer and the second function should be
> the destructor, or whatever.

Basically the same as the Tcl STUBS mechanism for loading extensions in 
different versions of the tcl interpreter without recompiling or 
relinking the extension.

Michael



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 27 12:27:02 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 17:27:02 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org> <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3DE44D27.3030904@something.invalid> <6GH59kKkXIpD092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1038382477.9003.python-list@python.org> <6q4ra3nwlq.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <as2v96$p28$0@216.39.172.122>

On 27 Nov 2002 11:19:29 +0100, Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> wrote:

>Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> writes:
>
>> Actually... here's an... ummm... "improved" version:
>> 
>> reduce = lambda func, seq, init=None:\
>>          [(l.append(func(l[i],seq[i])),l[-1])
>>                          for l in [[init or seq[0]]]
>>                          for i in range(len(seq))][-1][1]
>
>It doesn't work correctly:
>
>>>> import operator
>>>> reduce(operator.add, [1,2])
>4
>
>That should have been 3.
>
>   Bernhard
>
Nobody(?) seems to have noticed the version I posted the other day:

On 26 Nov 2002 16:21:57 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:19:46 -0800, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
>[...]
>>
>>map(), filter(), and reduce() do not represent all of the uses for filter,
>>and thus, they can't all be replaced by list comps (BTW, I never used
>>reduce, never understood what it was good for, and don't immediately
>>see how it can be done using list-comps -- would be genuinely interested
>>in seeing a couple of example if anyone's willing). 
>>
>I guess I'll bite:
>
> >>> def lcreduce(fn, seq, init=None):
> ...     return [first
> ...         for first, rest in [ init is None and
> ...             (list(seq[:1]), list(seq[1:])+[id]) or
> ...             ([init], list(seq)+[id])]
> ...         for y in rest if y is id or first.append(fn(first.pop(), y))][0][0]
> ...
> >>> seq = range(10)
> >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq)
> 45
> >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq,5)
> 50
> >>> seq = (1,2)
> >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq)
> 3
> >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq,5)
> 8
> >>> seq = [3]
> >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq)
> 3
> >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq,5)
> 8
> >>> seq = ()
> >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq,5)
> 5
> >>> lcreduce(int.__add__,seq)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<stdin>", line 3, in lcreduce
> IndexError: list index out of range
>
>But that last is ok:
> >>> reduce(int.__add__,seq)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: reduce() of empty sequence with no initial value
>
>I suspect reduce is a little faster than lcreduce ;-)
>
>Regards,
>Bengt Richter

It uses id as a sentinel, which should be generated inside the list comprehension
to be really clean, but it seems to work.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From irmen at NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Nov  7 19:42:23 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 01:42:23 +0100
Subject: Search a SOAP module
In-Reply-To: <3dc7fe24$0$5127$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <3dc7fe24$0$5127$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3dcb086f$0$46609$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Try the SOAP module that is part of PyGOOGLE,
http://diveintomark.org/projects/pygoogle/

Irmen



From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 15 18:14:02 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:14:02 -0800
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <ar2acj$c54$1@news.netpower.no>
References: <mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1037309063.10598.python-list@python.org> <ar2acj$c54$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <200211152314.PAA12423@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Friday 15 November 2002 00:15, David Brown wrote:
> "Chad Netzer" <cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov> wrote in message
> > On Thursday 14 November 2002 04:47, David Brown wrote:
> > > The question then is when will gcc support such
> > > link-time code generation, [snip]
> >
> >    I'm guessing there may be patent issues in this particular area, which
> > could restrict gcc's ability to implement some of these features.
>
> Really?  It's an obvious idea - I thought of it years ago, and I have never
> written a compiler.  I couldn't imagine that anyone who has really thought
> about it would see it differently.  The implementation, on the other hand,
> could be tough (and presumably is tough - or it would have been done long
> ago), especially for gcc where the linker is very much a seperate entity
> from the compiler.

Right, it is the details of implementation that might be a bit of a patent 
minefield (not the idea).   In the back of my head I seem to recall listening 
to a discussion with more knowledgable people about such patents.  Various 
people in the gcc community are obviously more informed in this area, than I.

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov 15 09:15:59 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:15:59 -0000
Subject: tkMessageBox: Changing Fonts, Colors, etc.
References: <83d1ra.p19.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <ar2eb3$imp$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <uta0cvicvv47f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <ar2eb3$imp$1 at news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>,
Eric Brunel  <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> wrote:
>Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>
>> I cannot seem to find a reference on how to change the font type, size,
>> etc. and colors for one of the tkMessageBox critters like showinfo() or
>> showwarning()
>> 
>> Could some kind soul, direct me to same, please?
>
>AFAIK, you just can't. These message boxes are managed internally by Tk, 
>sometimes by directly using API calls for the current platform (e.g. on 
>Windows, where the message boxes are regular Windows ones, as can be seen 
>in non-english versions of Windows: on a french version, a call to askyesno 
>will show a dialog with buttons labelled "Oui" and "Non" ...).
>
>If you're on Un*x, there are tcl scripts that actually implement the 
>dialogs. You'll find them near the libtk<version>.so library, in the 
>tk<version> directory. You may hack them to do want you want, but you still 
>won't be able to customize them from your application...
			.
			.
			.
Yes, to a first approximation.

There's actually more to it.  Tcl/Tk specialists have been
intending to write up the details, but none of us have got-
ten around to it, yet.  In the meantime, see <URL: http://
groups.google.com/groups?th=fb9c090fdba4799e > or <URL:
http://wiki.tcl.tk/messagebox >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Nov 21 07:39:05 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 13:39:05 +0100
Subject: Interfaces
References: <utjk4kf2ct1458@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <j4zns3cd1y.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Lee Harr <missive at frontiernet.net> writes:

> Are interfaces still a happening proposition? 

If you give it enough time (like 10 years or so), it might happen.

> Did we decide that we are not interested? Or are we waiting to see
> how this goes in Zope before making any commitment?

Who is that "we" that you are referring to. I'm personally not very
interested in interfaces as a language feature; I'm just fine with
interfaces as a concept and documentation vehicle.

What "we" are interested in is irrelevant. To make it happen, you need
a single individual determined enough to make it happen. That
individual should be prepared to get holes shot into the first 50
proposals that she comes up with.

IOW, it hasn't happened yet because it is really difficult.

Regards,
Martin


From TuxTrax at fortress.tuxnet.net  Fri Nov  1 06:20:06 2002
From: TuxTrax at fortress.tuxnet.net (TuxTrax)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:20:06 -0000
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg>
Message-ID: <slrnas4p25.e4j.TuxTrax@fortress.tuxnet>

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:35:28 +0800, hope Wrote in
Steve Ballmers hair grease:

> Hi,
> 
> If i am to develop a full fledge commercial application using Python :
> 
> a. Can i compile my python source into binary ? I have read about py2exe for
> windows. Is there one for Linux ?
> 
> b. Can I distribute the bytecode only (.pyo, .pyd) and not the source (.py)
> ? Can the bytecode be 'de-compiled' to source ?
> 
> Please advice.
> 
> Cheers,
> Peter

Hello Peter.

You ask good questions here, and give me an opportunity to present to you
some ideas you may not have yet considered.

First to answer your questions:

As you probably know, python is an interpreted language that does not lend
itself well to compiling. When you use the traditional compiler, you 
convert to binary and link to executable, your source code. Think of it 
this way: The interpreter is a compiled program that runs your code. In order
for your code to run, the interpreter has to be present. Py2exe therefore has
to compile your program, all it's modules, *and* the interpreter into one
package. I don't know from experience, but have read, that this process can
present difficulties and may not work with all programs. Others who have 
real experience can no doubt tell you more on this count. As for whether
or not this type of pseudo-compiler is avaialable for Linux, I am going to
address that question in a bit.

Can you distribute the bytecode and not the source? My friend, you can 
distribute it any old way you want. More on this to come. Can bytecode be
decompiled? Anything can be decompiled. You should know that compiling is
not the security that many believe it to be. Just because a program is
compiled does not mean it is safe from prying eyes. It is trivial to obtain
decompiling software for traditionally compiled languages. 

I want you to read and consider what I am about to write, and I don't want
you to feel that I am in any way attacking you. I'm not. But I feel a few
well placed observations are in order.

Your comments reveal a thoughtful and curious approach that is quite healthy.
It also reveals a world view that has in large part been shaped by the
philosophies of proprietary software companies.

Is a python compiler available for linux? I don't know. I do know that no
Linux users I know would even consider using one. It would never cross our
minds to make our source closed to others. This is where the whole open source
software movement takes a completely different world view. In open source
software, you retain the right to make a profit from your work, while still
granting others the right to copy, distribute, modify and view the source
code. Just a year ago, this whole concept was horrifying to me. I could
not concieve of allowing others to have free access to my source code. As
a Long time windows user, I had some un-learning to do. But unlearn I did.
I started thinking in terms of the advantages of open source. First, it keeps
you honest; you write your best code because you know that your peers are
going to be seeing it all over the world. Second, with open source, once
you release it, other programmers may modify it helping it to become more
than you ever could have made it on your own (unless you choose to forbid
the modification of your code, but that's another subject). Third, the
distribution of your product using the open source community, has no equal,
and will cost you nothing. You can provide support to your users via
that same community at little or no cost to you, and support is the number
one ongoing cost that software developers get saddled with. You can use
the resources of such organizations as the free software foundation to
defend your copyright (don't let the "free" in FSF throw you; you can still
market your product using the GPL licence).

And finally, you get to give something back. This is a philosophical point
for me, but giving something back to the community that you benefit from,
whether it be your local community, or the computer community, is very 
important for us as people. It is a common and refreshing view that you
will find in the open source world, and one reason that I left the
windows world for good. But thats a soapbox for another time. <grin>

Cheers,

Mathew

-- 
My Family is Microsoft Free. Running Mandrake Linux 8.0 kernel 2.4.3-20
I use quality open source software alternatives on my PC.

Yes, I am a Penguin cult high priest. Flipper readings upon request.

ROT13 this email address to mail me:
bar jbeq abg guerr - uvtu qrfreg zna, ng lnubb qbg pbz



From amk at amk.ca  Sat Nov 16 10:58:16 2002
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 09:58:16 -0600
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <mailman.1037232380.29621.python-list@python.org> <Xns92C7562E8169Bdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <mailman.1037408785.13867.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Rdycnb9e4L2F9kugXTWcpw@speakeasy.net>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:55:10 -0500, 
	David Mertz, Ph.D. <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:
> The more one learns about XML, the less of a glow surrounds the
> technology...  I suppose following the trend, those who *truly*
> understand XML would never *use* it.

Not at all.  It's just that XML is useful for *interchange* between
different applications written by different people.  Maintaining your
software's internal data structures in XML form -- as a DOM tree, say
-- is certainly silly, on the other hand, because it's so much easier
to have native Python/C++/whatever objects.

--amk




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 06:20:37 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:20:37 GMT
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com> <argdnk$6ed$1@wheel2.two14.net> <7SUC9.34440$744.1277405@news1.tin.it> <arhisr$6k9$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <9k3D9.35511$744.1314342@news1.tin.it>

maney at pobox.com wrote:
   ...
>>> This is one point on which I agree with Alexander: it seems to me to be
>>> the usual case that the regexp both identifies and parses the target.
>> 
>> It's one case, but it's very far from being the only one.
> 
> Right, and I didn't say it was.  I notice you aren't disagreeing that
> it's a very common style of use, 

No, I don't disagree it's common -- that why I mentioned it myself!

> and this both-identifying-and-parsing
> use has been at least implied all along.  It was explicitly described,
> though not explicitly shown in the pseudo-code snippets, back in the
> first post in this thread.

Guess I must have missed that, because I saw no "at least implied".
For such a crucial issue, making such an important difference, I find
myself hard put to believe that people would "just imply" it without
even showing it.  So maybe there was a lot more talking at cross-purposes
throughout the thread -- you yourself remarked that you were commenting
on a post you "quite possibly didn't read all the way", and that kind
of thing seems to insure there will be lots of misunderstanding.


>>> If it isn't being used in that dual mode, then the whole issue
>>> addressed here (and in at least two other threads during the past week)
>>> doesn't exist.
>> 
>> Why doesn't it?  Alexander's post to which I was replying had no
>> groups at all in the regex patterns
> 
> Not in the sample code, no.  There were groups in a lot of non-code
> exposition, and as I say, they've been implicitly and explicitly a
> major part of the motivation for this, at least IMO.  After all, if you
> don't have any groups, what do you need the match object for outside of
> the conditional test?  

The match object gives you more than just groups you put in the
pattern!  It's quite typical, for example, that all you need to
know is the exact substring that was matched:

>>> import re
>>> are=re.compile('ab+c')
>>> mo = are.match('abbbcccdd')
>>> mo.group(0)
'abbbc'
>>>

See?  No explicit groups in the re's pattern, yet pretty obvious
potential usefulness of the resulting match-object anyway.

So, if your question was meant to be rhetorical, it seems particularly
inappropriate to me.  If instead it was asked in earnest, to learn
crucial facts you didn't know about how re's and mo's work or about
how they're often used, then I think you might usefully have refrained
from criticizing what you suspected you didn't fully understand.  But
I do gather that trying to understand a subject before criticising
is quite an obsolete approach these days.

> And then the motivating problem, or at least
> what I have seen as the motivating problem, is the dual use of the
> result of the regexp's application.

You can have some level of dual use without _necessarily_ having any
group in the res' patterns.  Of course you may often be interested
in having groups, but your repeated attempts to imply that it would
be _necessarily_ so seem quite misplaced to me.

> The elephant seems very like a pillar on this side...  :-)

That can be a particularly dangerous partial-perception, should
the pachyderm suddenly decide to shuffle its feet.


I have already outlined quite briefly what I think could be one
interesting approach should one need to pass on a match object
that 'hides' the join-all-with-| approach to matching multiple re
patterns in one gulp -- synthesize a suitable object polymorphic
to a real matchobject.  A completely different tack, simpler though
needing some time measurement to check its worth, is to do TWO
matches (still better than doing N one after the other...) --
one vs the patterns joined into one by |, just to identify which
of them is the first (if any) to match; then a second versus the
specific "first matching pattern" only, just to build the match
object one needs.  At this point I'm not highly motivate to spend
more time and energy trying to help out with this, so I think I'll
leave it at this "suggestive and somewhat helpful handwaving" level
unless some other reader, perceptive enough to SEE how vastly
superior the join-all-patterns approach is, but needing to get
the specific match-object too, should express interest.  As far
as I'm concerned, people who still can't see it probably don't want
to, and so they're welcome to wear out their CPUs looping uselessly
to their hearts' contents.


Alex



From hgg9140 at seanet.com  Sat Nov  9 20:11:12 2002
From: hgg9140 at seanet.com (Harry George)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 17:11:12 -0800
Subject: ZODB "cannot create 'function' instances"
Message-ID: <m33cqa6xfz.fsf@wilma.localdomain>

I'm just starting with ZODB:

------------
Problem
------------
class Base(Persistent):
   def __init__(self):
       self.id=mkid()  # e.g., '_001'
       ....

class MyClass(Base):
   def __init__(self):
       Base.__init__(self)
       .... (has some dicts and lists)


x=MyClass()

userdb[x.id]=x
get_transaction().commit()

Fails in copy_reg._reduce: "state = base(self)" with
TypeError: cannot create 'function' instances

-------------
Questions
-------------
What function does it think I'm creating?

Do I need to make all dicts and lists Persistent?
Isn't it adequate to commit when they are loaded (and thus
not care about dirty flags)?

Is there a working example of something like this pattern?



-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Tue Nov 12 17:25:51 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:25:51 -0800
Subject: running batch scripts
In-Reply-To: <%ZeA9.7$sN2.52@news.oracle.com>; from trilok.agarwal@oracle.com on Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 02:10:53PM -0800
References: <%ZeA9.7$sN2.52@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <20021112142551.B7181@ActiveState.com>

[tagarwal wrote]
> Hi
> anyone can help me to write a python script to invoke a windows batch script
> (.bat file)
> and then keeping the cmd (cmd.exe or the dos window)window alive so as to
> use the same window to run some other commands.
> I tried using popen2, but how do i tell the cmd.exe to execute the command
> once i place the command on stdin.

You need to launch your batch file with "cmd.exe /k". From cmd.exe's
help:

    C:\> cmd /?
    ...
    /K      Carries out the command specified by string but remains
    ...

so try this Python code:

    os.system("cmd.exe /k your_batch_file.bat")


Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From wesc at deirdre.org  Tue Nov 12 14:14:37 2002
From: wesc at deirdre.org (Wesley Chun)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:14:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: BayPIGgies mtg Wed 11/13 7:30pm
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0211121113290.27036-100000@emperor.deirdre.org>

BayPIGgies: Silicon Valley-San Francisco Bay Area Python Users Group

When:     November 13, 2002 @ 7:30pm
Where:    Stanford University, Palo Alto, CA
Agenda:   Editing Digital Video using Linux and Python
Speaker:  Drew Perttula

I want to edit digital video in a unix way. That means I want an
open-source suite of non-monolithic, flexible tools and transparent data
formats that I can use with all my other unix tools. I won't stand for any
segfaults or other data-losing behavior. And most of all, I need it by
yesterday.

Development started mid-September, and by late October I was transcribing
and logging captured DV footage into my xml format. Soon after that, the
timeline-style editor was running, and we were dragging thumbnails from
footage index pages (in html displayed in Mozilla) right into the
timeline. There's even the beginning of an effects plugin system, which I
currently use to handle the mixing of audio tracks. At November's meeting,
I'll be demoing the editor itself and discussing the tools I used, the
components I had to build, and where I plan to go with it next.

I have a sloppy wiki site at http://bigasterisk.com/editor where I've put
some screenshots, samples of the xml formats, use cases, and other notes I
made during development. The wiki also gives instructions for getting all
the code via anonymous CVS. The code is still very poorly packaged, so
it's probably near-impossible to get the code to run anywhere else as of
yet.

# Upcoming Meeting: December will be another popular "Newbies Night" (see
April 2002 meeting on the website)

# Call For Talks: We are actively seeking speakers for BayPIGgies! If you
would like to give a talk at one of our 2003 meetings (any Python related
topic), contact us to coordinate!

more info including directions:    http://www.baypiggies.net

hope to see some of you on Wednesday!

-wesley

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall PTR, ? 2001
    http://starship.python.net/crew/wesc/cpp/

Silicon Valley-San Francisco Bay Area Python Users Group (BayPIGgies)
    http://deirdre.org/baypiggies

wesley.j.chun :: wesc at deirdre.org
cyberweb.consulting : henderson, nv : cyberweb at rocketmail.com
http://www.roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Nov 11 03:38:09 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 09:38:09 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqjr09$qbg$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <slrnasr9v1.267f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <tyfof8x1rkf.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <aqmqma$nsd$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <tyfvg34zeku.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> writes:

> You can say, "I won't use the advanced stuff that requires me to
> think like a machine,"

Indeed you can.

> but then Lisp is pointless, because then it's nothing but a hard to
> read, complicated, and faster Python.

I beg to differ.

You *can* use Lisp as a Python-with-s-expressions. Once you get over
the parentheses (let's not argue whether one can get over them or
not), it really is very simple, if you stick to the simple things.

For the more adventurous, all of Lisp's power is also available.


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Sun Nov 24 18:15:38 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:15:38 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
In-Reply-To: <slrnatv9r8.td7.grante@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3DDD711D.2000802@skippinet.com.au> <arl9cs$k6b$0@216.39.172.122> <3dde5012$0$4491$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3dde5e18$0$22192$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <THED9.3061$hg1.6331@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <slrnatv9r8.td7.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <u4dE9.10391$hg1.21689@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> In article <THED9.3061$hg1.6331 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>, Mark
> Hammond wrote:
>> Also much easier for me to code ;)

> When in doubt, do whatver is simpler.

Yes, good philosophy.

How about I make a deal with you - I will add this support, and you
translate your C++ code that demonstrates the mask change into Python 
once this is available?  The next win32all is about due anyway.

Mark.



From martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi  Mon Nov 11 22:00:58 2002
From: martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi (Martti Halminen)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 05:00:58 +0200
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqjr09$qbg$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <slrnasr9v1.267f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <tyfof8x1rkf.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <aqmqma$nsd$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <tyfvg34zeku.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1037052618.20223.python-list@python.org> <aqpf2i$7i9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <mailman.1037062037.18153.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD06EEA.7FA2590C@kolumbus.fi>

Neil Schemenauer wrote:

>     (defun parse-float (s)
>       (let ((*read-eval* nil))
>         (read-from-string s)))
> 
>     (defun doit ()
>       (dotimes (i 100000)
>         (parse-float "3.1415927")))
> 
>     (time (doit))
> 
> takes 1.507 seconds on my machine using SBCL.  The corresponding Python
> code takes 0.19.

read-from-string isn't quite as good as a purpose-built parse-float;
there isn't one in the ANSI standard, though. 
On my machine, using the parse-float from CMU AI repository, I get 50 %
shorter runtime than with this read-from-string trick.
- Should perhaps take a look at the corresponding Python part, whether
it does the same thing. Often some CL parts are slower than
corresponding operations in other languages due to more thorough error
checking or handling more odd cases.

--


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Nov 13 10:08:39 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 10:08:39 -0500
Subject: perl2python
In-Reply-To: <slrnat56fd.dv.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
References: <87y97xmy6o.fsf@flibuste.net>
	<slrnat56fd.dv.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <oq7kfhjymg.fsf@carouge.sram.qc.ca>

[Wojtek Walczak]

> Dnia 13 Nov 2002 13:49:51 +0100, William napisa?(a):
> > I want to convert a little perl script to python, is there a tools for
> > that ?

> Haven't heard of something like that...

I have something in the works, within my pile of dreams.  But it seems like
a major and difficult project.  It currently holds 16500 lines of Python.

> > or a little doc to learn the minimum of perl for python users ?

> [...] my little proposition is to learn perl 'from scratch' :)

Yet I would suggest, as far as possible of course, not loosing to much
time in the Perl direction, that could be better invested deepening your
knowledge of Python.  Unless you are seeking for distractions? :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Tue Nov  5 19:31:47 2002
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 00:31:47 GMT
Subject: Speeding up a script -- looking for ideas
References: <Xns92ADE4723B46donkansevenyahoocom@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <aq9ntj$82s5j$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>

Richard Bow <donkan7 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm hoping to get some hints for significantly speeding up the below 
> script. I've found 43 integers between 1 and 1,000,000 that satisfy the 
> condition, and would like to push on toward 10,000,000 in hopes of finding 
> an integer for which there are 3 pairs. Of course, another reason for 
> asking is to learn more Python from you guys.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Richard Bow
> 
> ======================================================================
> # This finds integers n for which there are 2 pairs of positive integers,
> #(a,b) and (c,d) such that (a**3) + (b**3) = n, and (c**3) + (d**3) = n.
> # see http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath028.htm 
> 
> start = 1000000
> end   = 2000000
> 
> import time
> t1= time.time()
> 
> for n in range(start, end + 1):
>    crn = int(n**(1/3.0)) + 2 #  because of float probs, add 2 to be sure 
>    list = []                 #  crn is large enough 
> 
>    for a in range(1,crn):
>        a3 = a ** 3 
>        for b in range(a,crn): 
>            b3 = b ** 3 
>            if a3 + b3 == n:                        
>                list = list + [(n,a,b)]
>                if len(list) >= 2:
>                # e.g. [(1729, 1, 12), (1729, 9, 10)] and 
>                        # [(994688, 29, 99), (994688, 60, 92)]
> 
>                    print list
>                    print
>                    
> t2 = time.time()
> print "Time's up!", t2 - t1, "seconds have elapsed"
> 
> print "EEEEEEEEEnnnnnnnnnnddddddddd"
> 
> ##total for n = 1 thru n = 1,000,000 is 43 integers
> ==========================================================


Well, brute-force method is not that bad.
Since you are calculating the pairs
    a^3 + b^3 = n, for n=[1,2000000]
where
    a=1, b=1,2,3,...,126
    a=2, b=2,3,4,...,126
    a=3, b=3,4,5,...,126
    ...
anyways, write a Python script to print them out.  Then, 'sort' and 'uniq'.

For example, consider script 'abn.py',
    maxn=2e6
    maxi=math.ceil(maxn**(1/3.0))
    for a in range(1, maxi+1):
	for b in range(a, maxi+1):
	    n = a**3 + b**3 
	    if n > maxn: break
	    print a, b, n
then,
    python abn.py | sort -n -k 3 | uniq -dc -f 2 > abn
spits out 64 integers in 0.23 second on my dual-P3/800.  And, going to 
    maxn=10e6
gives 150 integers in 0.65 second, and
    maxn=1e9
gives 1554 integers in 14.7 seconds.

You can search for 3 pairs just as easily.  There 8 integers with 3 pairs
for n < 1e9.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
1986 VW Jetta, 350000km :-))


From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov 18 05:25:47 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:25:47 +1100
Subject: 'for' loop in python,  error: unsubscriptable object
In-Reply-To: <7913deb3.0211180155.4a243cdf@posting.google.com>
References: <7913deb3.0211180155.4a243cdf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200211182125.47231.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:55, george wrote:
> Hello:
>    I am new to python.
/AOL.

>    for max in range[CLA, RBW, BAG, MRB, NOG]:
What are you trying to do here? Do you just want to iterate through the 
values?

Let's look at the on-line help for range():
range(...)
    range([start,] stop[, step]) -> list of integers

    Return a list containing an arithmetic progression of integers.
    range(i, j) returns [i, i+1, i+2, ..., j-1]; start (!) defaults to 0.
    When step is given, it specifies the increment (or decrement).
    For example, range(4) returns [0, 1, 2, 3].  The end point is omitted!
    These are exactly the valid indices for a list of 4 elements.

I can't see what possible values you could put into the five arguments to the 
heat() function that would make sense as arguments to range().

Perhaps you just want to do 
for max in [CLA, RBW, BAG, MRB, NOG]:
instead?

> BUT WHEN I EXECUTE IT ,
> THE PROGRAM SAYS "for max in range[CLA, RBW, BAG, MRB, NOG]:
>                   type error: unsubcriptable object"
Please don't shout (which is the what user uppercase means on the net).

Also, can you show how you are calling heat()?

Brad
- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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1WcCFa4XL2YU2Rlx+aS3UhQ=
=3YTl
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From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Nov 15 09:27:21 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:27:21 -0600
Subject: Calling A Deconstructor
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E09CEF@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: John Abel [mailto:john.abel at pa.press.net]
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 7:47 AM
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a class, with an __init__, and a main function, basically a 
> wrapper around smtplib.  I wish to add a __del__ to the class.  Two 
> questions:  Do I need to do it this way?  If so, how do I can 
> close the instance, so the __del__ is called?  The script will be
> permanently resident, so I wanted to make sure that I didn't have
> various connections open to the smtp server.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John
>

Hmm... interesting conundrum.

An object is "deleted" automatically when the last reference
to it disappears (goes out of scope, is deleted expl?citly,
etc).  BUT, you can't force the __del__ method to be called,
it's an implementation detail that depends on the memory
management scaffolding in place.

For example.  In CPython, memory management is done via
reference counting; when the refcount of an object drops
to zero, it's immediately destructed and deallocated; BUT,
in Jython, memory management is done via Java's machinery,
and there is no assurement of *when*, or *if*, the
destructor is going to be called on the object.

So, for sanity's sake, use a .close() method, or a .done(),
or something like that, to explicitly close your connection
to your SMTP server, so you won't have to depend on __del__
doing it for you.

Python doesn't have the fixed semantics for destructor 
invocation that C++ has, so you have to take that into account
when designing your software.

HTH

-gustavo

pd: TGIF!



From rmunn at pobox.com  Fri Nov  1 08:59:03 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:59:03 GMT
Subject: What the heck has happened to PythonWin???
References: <mailman.1036105711.25316.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnas4ujp.sle.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 at 23:11 GMT, David LeBlanc <whisper at oz.net> wrote:
>> > From: Mark Hammond [mailto:mhammond at skippinet.com.au] 
>> > 
>> [snip]
><snip>
>> > There is no binary distribution yet for good reason - significant, 
>> > incompatible changes are still being made.  But if you are 
>> > brave enough, 
>> > all the source code is there (it is all pure-Python once you 
>> > have win32all)
>> > 
>> > It-works-for-four-people-that-I-know-of <wink>
>> 
>> I'd be happy to be a guiniea pig :-)
>> 
>> -- bjorn
> 
> Ditto!!
> 
> Dave LeBlanc
> Seattle, WA USA

The way to be a guinea pig is simple:

1. Go to http://spambayes.sourceforge.net/
2. Follow the CVS instructions to get the most recent code
3. Sign up on the spambayes mailing list
4. Run around on your hamster^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hguinea-pig wheel!

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From karpierz at _NOSPAM_alpha.pl  Sat Nov  2 04:44:44 2002
From: karpierz at _NOSPAM_alpha.pl (Adam Karpierz)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 10:44:44 +0100
Subject: Python 2.1, COM (Excel), and Threads...
References: <24420294.0210311031.18f8b3e0@posting.google.com> <aprvpb$5hm$1@news.tpi.pl> <jxjw9.22695$jE1.73125@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <aq07b0$55k$1@news2.tpi.pl>

Uzytkownik "Mark Hammond" <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> napisal:

> This is wrong though.  It should look more like:

Of course :)
Sorry for my mistake.

Adam Karpierz
karpierz at zope.pl






From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Nov 19 12:38:47 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:38:47 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <44d4f61c.0211181708.465f5838@posting.google.com> <3DDA7385.2020609@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-C621D0.09384719112002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3DDA7385.2020609 at nyc.rr.com>,
 Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> wrote:

> > There are two things which make me cringe.  1) When a Pythonista
> > complains about allergies to strange delimiters, and 2) when a Lisper
> > calls other languages too slow.
> 
> The numbers I hear are that CL runs on average 20% slower than C.

This is after how many decades of Lisp compiler development?

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 27 09:58:39 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:58:39 -0600
Subject: Serial.py woes
In-Reply-To: <65c27c6b.0211262305.36235eed@posting.google.com> (Norbert.Klamann@klamann-software.de's
 message of "26 Nov 2002 23:05:17 -0800")
References: <mailman.1038360999.28458.python-list@python.org>
	<65c27c6b.0211262305.36235eed@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2u1i312lc.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Norbert" == Norbert Klamann <Norbert.Klamann at klamann-software.de> writes:
    Norbert> So be it:
    Norbert> Maybe this post can help you :

It turns out the problem was more mundane -- there was a character
that I was not outputting which I discovered by reading the manual for
the 18th time.  It was documented in the language reference for the
device, but I did find it in another section of the manual.

All is well now -- thanks for the input.  

John Hunter



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov  4 19:55:07 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 00:55:07 GMT
Subject: Str and instance concatanation error
References: <R_Cx9.11472$t91.80221380@news-text.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <aq74tb$idp$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 04 Nov 2002 23:01:05 GMT, "Newt" <newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>I keep getting the following error when trying to write to a file.
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "C:\Python22\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1292, in __call__
>    return apply(self.func, args)
>  File "D:\py_stuff\curry.py", line 14, in __call__
>    return self.fun(*(self.pending + args), **kw)
>  File "D:\py_stuff\chaz.py", line 144, in savefile
>    gv.save_char()
>  File "D:\py_stuff\globals.py", line 96, in save_char
>    file.write('<creator>' + self.creator + '</creator>')
>TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'instance' objects
>
>This occurs in a class module (called globals.py). This is used to hold all
>my global variables, and also has a method (called save_char) to write these
>to a file.
>
>self.creator is initialised in the __init__ as "". Should I create it as a
>stringVar instead, or am I doing something incredibly stupid.
>
Well, the error message is a strong clue, but if it doesn't make sense,
what do you do when you don't know why something like self.creator is causing
a problem (besides post a question ;-) ? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm wondering
why you wouldn't just plunk in a print statement to see what everything involved
is. You say you think it is initialized to as "", which shouldn't cause a problem.
So what could it have become so that it does cause a problem? What can you do to
find out what it is at the point where it causes the problem?

Well, make the program tell you more. E.g., just before the file.write above, put

    print 'self.creator =', `self.creator`

or
    print 'self.creator =', repr(self.creator)

(I recommend the back ticks or repr just to make sure you get something you can see,
like '' for a null string etc.)

If you mustn't touch the code, make a safe copy, and verify that you've restored it
afterwards, or make a wholesale hacking copy and just mess with it any way that forces
it to tell you what you want to know.

Often, it will be less typing and faster than posting a question.
HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Nov  5 11:07:13 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 11:07:13 -0500
Subject: The Deitel book (was Re: Textbooks on Perl/Python)
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036226184.12174.python-list@python.org> <niNw9.75632$TD1.3404688@news2.tin.it> <m27kfsm2x8.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <aq8qbh$ik0$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <m27kfsm2x8.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson  <mwh at python.net> wrote:
>Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
>>
>> if and when a student manages to work all through it, I think the
>> student WILL feel pretty confident in their mastery of the subject.
>
>("it" is Deitel & Deitel's Python : How To Program)
>
>My concern was that the student might feel confident in the subject
>after reading the book, but that this might not be justified.  It does
>cover a huge amount of material, but not with enormous depth (at
>least, not in the chapters *I* tech reviewed).

My concerns were primarily teaching of poor coding techniques (e.g. use
of magic numbers instead of well-named constants) and an approach that I
can best describe as Python written by a Java programmer (rather than
teaching a Pythonic approach).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Project Vote Smart: http://www.vote-smart.org/


From matt at mondoinfo.com  Thu Nov  7 22:24:24 2002
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 03:24:24 GMT
Subject: Email Parse and Python Cookbook
References: <mailman.1036710131.30531.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasmblg.s7.matt@sake.mondoinfo.com>

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:54:29 -0800, David McInnis
<david at dataovation.com> wrote:

> My problem is this.  I am using a sample out of the Python Cookbook
> but this example fails on some messages.  Works on most.

> mydomain.com/support/Maildir/cur/1036006414.8616.wf.mydomain.com,S=14076
> 8:2,

>     raise Errors.HeaderParseError(
> email.Errors.HeaderParseError: Not a header, not a continuation 

Dear David,

I've never seen a situation in which the email module raised that
error and it wasn't correct. You might want to look at the files in
question and see if it is.

I recall that there has been some discussion recently on the
mimelib-devel list (mimelib is the old name for the email module)
about what to do when that error would be raised or there are other
sorts of incorrect formatting. You can argue it both ways: On the one
hand, if common email software can read the message, people will
expect the email module to parse it. On the other hand, chasing
bug-for-bug compatibility with every possible RFC violation is a
fool's errand.

Of course, none of that sort of philosophizing will help your current
problem. First, I'd make sure that you're using version 2.4.3 of the
module. I think that it requires a relatively recent version of Python
and I don't think that there have been any recent changes that would
affect the problem you're seeing but it might be worth a try.

If the messages are formatted incorrectly and the most recent version
of the module can't parse them, you could subclass the module's Parser
and override its _parserheaders method with a less strict version. By
convention, you're not intended to override methods that begin with
underscores but you might not have much choice. You could also catch
the exception and do something about it. You might try using the
rfc822 module in that case (it may be less strict) as long as you
didn't mind not having the message's body parsed. You could also
rewrite the file to fix the formatting and run the Parser on it again.

BTW, many people consider it best not to post HTML to newsgroups.

Regards,
Matt


From support at internetdiscovery.com  Sun Nov 17 14:38:28 2002
From: support at internetdiscovery.com (Mike Clarkson)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:38:28 GMT
Subject: Tkinter wart: bug or feature?
References: <3dd563db.9499247@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <eppstein-0E7234.13363215112002@news.service.uci.edu> <mailman.1037407464.4609.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-F9EDCF.20084015112002@news.service.uci.edu> <s1tB9.4925$1r1.171057@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3dd7f032.1870592@nntp.ix.netcom.com>

On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:57:28 GMT, "Fredrik Lundh"
<fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

>David Eppstein wrote:
>
>> ...or do all the ugly bookkeeping necessary to make sure that image1
>> gets deleted when and only when it is no longer needed
>
>where all the "ugly bookkeeping necessary" is one extra line:
>
>    lbl = Tkinter.Label(win.window, image=image1)
>    lbl.photo = image1

This is still a bug workaround, just like using global. You're still
expecting the end user to do ugly bookkeeping, but only for images:
I don't have to hold a reference to text1 global for it to work.   
No other commonly used entity in the Tkinter API has this
counter-intuitive behavior.  It's also very counter-intuitive to what
Tkinter is wrapping, namelyTk itself.

I've seen a number of different bug workarounds for this, but
my question remains: is this a bug or feature? It has been
Benevolently declared to be Not a Bug, but clearly others have had
trouble with this too. If it's reopened as a bug we can do something 
about it as there are obvious fixes as I pointed out, but if it's a
feature there's nothing we can do.

>    "When someone says 'I want a programming language in which I
>    need only say what I wish done,' give him a lollipop." -- Alan Perlis

      "All that is necessary for evil warts to triumph, it is that a
few good men do nothing."       --     Edmund Burke, perhaps.

Mike


From lisior at manta.univ.gda.pl  Thu Nov 21 02:20:53 2002
From: lisior at manta.univ.gda.pl (Daniel Lisewski)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:20:53 +0100
Subject: A simple question: How to exit from a python script? Just like
 the exit() in C++
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1037851121.5334.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1037851121.5334.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0211210818140.31747-100000@manta.univ.gda.pl>


On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Wang Hanbo wrote:

> Hi,
>  
>          I have a simple question as is written in the header, how can I
> exit from a python program using a call such as "exit()" in C++?
>  
>          I am a novice on this list, and also a rookie on python
> language, all of you answers will be my best impetus!
>          Thanks
>  
There is a procedure called exit in module sys. So to use ut you have to 
write sys.exit(), and of course you need to import sys module.

Hope that will help.

Daniel ( lisior at manta.univ.gda.pl )



From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  5 13:09:00 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (xinghua shi)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:09:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: More about simple question
In-Reply-To: <001d01c28494$f31103c0$ba01010a@local>
Message-ID: <20021105180901.76557.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,thanks you all. Actually, I messed up the
indentation and I first thought it's not a big problem
as I used to write in C. 

I still have another question. If I have a file named:
foo.py. then how can I get an excetable, say foo?
In C, I could use
% gcc foo.c -o foo

So how can I do similar in Python?
%python foo.py -o foo
doesn't work of course. 

Thanks!

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/



From missive at frontiernet.net  Tue Nov 19 17:35:34 2002
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:35:34 -0000
Subject: PersistentList (ZODB)
References: <pan.2002.11.19.18.21.48.227528.710@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <utlf5m8h1qvoa8@corp.supernews.com>

In article <pan.2002.11.19.18.21.48.227528.710 at thomas-guettler.de>, 
Thomas Guettler wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I use PersistentList v1.3 from Zope2.6.
> 
> If I do the following
> 
> mylist=PersistentList()
> type(mylist)
> mylist.append(5)
> mylist=[1, 2, 3] # (*)

[1, 2, 3] is a list, not a PersistentList


> type(mylist)
> 
> mylist is not a PersistentList anymore. Is there
> a way to change PersistentList that way that the line
> marked with (*) does not delete the PersistentList,
> but creates a new empty one?
> 


I have not looked at it, but what methods does PersistentList
have? Is there something to replace its contents? or to 
empty it out completely?

You might have to dig around in the source code. I have found
with Zope that is sometimes the only way to find anything out.



From jwbaxter at spamcop.net  Wed Nov  6 15:51:11 2002
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.net (John Baxter)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 12:51:11 -0800
Subject: Guilty secret: globals baffle me
References: <3U9y9.19300$ko1.2872530@kent.svc.tds.net> <82ay9.98000$TD1.4405986@news2.tin.it> <aqbj3a$r89$0@216.39.172.122> <trtisuomnb6hkkhqv7de5mop265k1q9ch5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <jwbaxter-A9E90A.12511106112002@corp-radius.supernews.com>

To the old favorite programmer complaints:

Constants aren't.
Variables don't.

Python adds:
Globals aren't.

  --John


From justin at gnubian.org  Fri Nov 15 11:24:55 2002
From: justin at gnubian.org (Justin Ryan)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 10:24:55 -0600
Subject: changing unix password with python
In-Reply-To: <m3r8dnklpy.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1037362462.2283.python-list@python.org> 
	<m3r8dnklpy.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1037377496.20555.16.camel@qutang>

> Google is your friend. Asking for "Python PAM" reveals
> 
> http://www.tummy.com/Software/PyPam/index.html

Thanks.. I actually came across this, but had a bit of trouble getting
my head around it and thought I'd be better off asking a general
question on the list than focusing on a module that may not be the only
or the best..  should have mentioned this before -- my mistake..

> If you find you need to make changes, don't forget to contribute them
> back to Rob Riggs.

but of course..

Thanks again!

-Justin
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From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Nov 15 16:41:38 2002
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 21:41:38 GMT
Subject: Permutations algoritm?
References: <mailman.1037391865.1270.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar3pmh$epsbm$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>

sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> Does anybody have a clear, simple, permutations algorithm
> in Python?

Would you care to explain this?  Permutation can mean different things.
Concrete example might be good...

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sat Nov 23 23:15:12 2002
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:15:12 +1000 (est)
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
In-Reply-To: <3ddf4fb7$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.44.0211241358280.60514-100000@tenring.andymac.org>

On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Mike Brown wrote:

> "Jarkko Torppa" <torppa at staff.megabaud.fi> wrote:
> > Seems that stdio is somehow confused, try this
> >
> > import urllib, time, os
> >
> > starttime = time.time()
> > u = urllib.urlopen('http://localhost/4m')
> > fn = u.fp.fileno()
> > bytea = [ ]
> > while 1:
> >     bytes = os.read(fn, 16 * 1024)
> >     if bytes == '':
> >         break
> >     bytea.append(bytes)
> > bytes = ''.join(bytea)
> > u.close()
>
> [...]
>
> Well, look at that...
>
> bytes: 4241.5K; time: 0.322s (13171 KB/s)
>
> That's much better. At least, it now seems to be hitting the socket speed
> cap.

I'm glad that I said (in my previous post) that realloc() _may_ be the
cause of what you're seeing, because its not.

I haven't gotten right to the bottom of the matter, however the following
patch against the 2.2.2 sources makes an enormous difference on my system:

---8<---8<---8<---8<---
*** Lib/httplib.py.orig Mon Oct  7 11:18:17 2002
--- Lib/httplib.py      Sun Nov 24 14:44:16 2002
***************
*** 210,216 ****
      # See RFC 2616 sec 19.6 and RFC 1945 sec 6 for details.

      def __init__(self, sock, debuglevel=0, strict=0):
!         self.fp = sock.makefile('rb', 0)
          self.debuglevel = debuglevel
          self.strict = strict

--- 210,216 ----
      # See RFC 2616 sec 19.6 and RFC 1945 sec 6 for details.

      def __init__(self, sock, debuglevel=0, strict=0):
!         self.fp = sock.makefile('rb', -1)
          self.debuglevel = debuglevel
          self.strict = strict

---8<---8<---8<---8<---

With the 2.2.2 release source, I get about 113kB/s retrieving a 4MB file
from a localhost URL.  With the patch applied, I get 4-5.5MB/s.

This on a FreeBSD 4.4 SMP system (dual Celeron 300A, 128MB RAM) with
ATA66 drives.

The change turns the socket's file object from unbuffered, to buffered
with a default buffer size (which I believe is 1024 bytes).

I don't know what the implications of this change in other circumstances
are, so can't recommend this as a permanent patch.  There appears to be no
easy way to set this buffering option from the urllib or even httplib
APIs.

At the moment I don't have the FreeBSD library source readily accessible
to investigate the stdio (specifically fread()) implementation in the
unbuffered case.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov  9 03:02:43 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 08:02:43 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Di3z9.8445$Bs5.288545@news1.tin.it>

engsol at teleport.com wrote:
   ...
> What I want to do is call (or invoke) a C exe  from Python, and return the
> results to Python. Or pass values of some sort to the C exe, and again
   ...
> I'm using Python 222 on NT. If I understood how to do  "Hello world" (in
> C, called from Python), I might be able to go from there.

Then you have a mind-boggling array of possibilities to perform
the task you require.

Simplest:

hello.c:
#include <stdio.h>
int main()
{
    puts("Hello world");
    return 0;
}

compile and link hello.c to produce hello.exe, say specifically placed
in c:\kraip\hello.exe.

Now in python hello1.py:
import os
os.system('c:/kraip/hello.exe')


This does the "call or invoke" part but doesn't really "return the
results to Python" -- hello.exe doesn't really have "results" but
rather performs output to standard-output, and invoking it with
os.system just lets it perform its output normally.  To capture
hello.exe's resulting output as a string for Python use,
hello2.py:
import os
hellopipe = os.popen('c:/kraip/hello.exe', 'r')
results = hellopipe.read()
hellopipe.close()

print "Python here: %r" % results


This limits the "pass values of some sort" spec to passing
starting arguments to the other program you're invoking.  E.g.
hello3.c:
#include <stdio.h>
int main(int args, char** argv)
{
    printf("Hello %s\n", argv[1]);
    return 0;
}

and hello4.py:
import os
argument = 'pythonista'
hellopipe = os.popen('c:/kraip/hello3.exe %s' % argument, 'r')
results = hellopipe.read()
hellopipe.close()

print "Python here: %r" % results


This is more or less the end of the line in terms of what
os.popen can offer -- due to buffering and suchlike there's
no practical way for python to drive BOTH standard input
and standard-output of another external program.

What you'll read about as EXTENDING python doesn't use an
external PROGRAM but rather an external MODULE, which in
Windows will take the form of a .DLL file.

But Windows in particular offers many other approaches too.
DDE (old and cranky), Windows Messages (old but OK for simple
things), COM (not newest any more, but still VERY powerful
and well-designed), not to mention many other possibilities
such as shared memory ("file mappings") and other kernel
objects for inter-process communication, "named pipes", etc.

And in platform-independent terms, there's XPCOM (a sort of
open-source clone of COM), Corba, XML-RPC, SOAP -- just for
starters.


Back when I did Windows programming full-time for a few
years, I would have reached for COM almost by reflex.  Now
that most of my programming is cross-platform or even Linux
specific, the reflex has dimmed a bit (I *do* miss COM, darn
it -- only technical aspect of Windows I do miss!), so I
would consider forgetting the "call (or invoke) a C exe"
part of the specs, deeming it an unfortunate slip of the
tongue, and go for Python extension and embedding (even
though it means that either the C-coded thingy will be a
DLL, NOT an exe, or else if it's an exe IT will have to
start the ball rolling by calling (or invoking) Python, not
vice-versa).
Even within this compass, you have so many choices it hurts:
C-level coding for the "Python-C API"; C++ use with SCXX,
CXX, Boost Python, SIP (yes you've specified C, not C++, but
people sometimes say one thing while they mean another...);
and SWIG, too.

The best way to choose is to delineate as precisely as you
can all constraints and possible future developments of
your needs.  If such constraints and futures do not include
using any other platform except Windows, then COM is most
likely still best: by exposing a COM/Automation model from
your EXE, not only will you let Python drive it, BUT you'll
have a potentially important "bullet point" on your app's
feature list for marketing purposes -- sophisticated
customers or 3rd party integrators will also be able to
drive your app from (e.g.) Visual Basic, Delphi, etc; and
even get an automatic dotNET wrapper to drive said app
from C# and the like, too.  This DOES help sell...


Alex



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 13 16:42:01 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 22:42:01 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <m3lm3xqh92.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> >> Yes, but the documentation author has to fill in the URL. In Python
> >> documentation, the RFC URL provided at formatting time; currently, it
> >> points to www.faqs.org.
> 
> OK, So too could the xml processing chain, probably in the same way.
> By holding the url in the stylesheet and indexing off some key.

Certainly - but then we need entirely new tools (or must modify
existing tools). Have you ever tried to modify Norman Walsh's DocBook
XSLT stylesheets? That may be an excellent piece of software, but it
has a complexity that is not easy to grasp (to put it mildly).

> > - There's no clear benefit from switching to Docbook right now. All
> >   the difficult work has already been done for LaTex and switching to
> >   Docbook provides no clear advantage. Plus, the difficult work would
> >   have to be done *again*.
> 
> Yep.... But are you going to march onwards to Omega to pick up Unicode?
>    The only given in the future is change.

We are not talking about the big picture here; I happily leave views
and architectures to others. What we are talking about is the Python
documentation, which has small but precise needs. Being able to
represent arbitrary characters is not a requirement at the moment.

> > I'd suggest to anybody who wants to make the Docbook transition happen
> > to provide XSLT/CSS stylesheets that make the HTML output of Docbook
> > look *exactly* like the current one.
> 
> Justification?

To proof that it can be done, and to smoothen the transition. Many
URLs in the world point to specific pages of the documentation at
python.org. It is desirable that as few as possible of these URLs
break just because the formatting engine changes.

> > Those who are working on the Python documentation will certainly not
> > do this work for you, as they've better work to do. Namely, writing
> > documentation and not fighting the toolchain. Adjusting the tools has
> > been done once already, and that should suffice for a few years ;-)
> 
> Few being?

Three or four, I think. Conversion to DocBook has been studied for
three years, atleast, and everytime this comes up, the conclusion is
that it is not worth the effort.

> My wild guess would be that there are today more people familiar with XML
> than there are with \tex.  How long will the supply of tex afficianado's 
> last?

You don't need to be a Tex aficionado to contribute to the Python
documentation. I don't like Tex myself, and I don't use it for
anything but the Python documentation. However, when writing Python
documentation, I don't think of it as writing Tex. It is a special
language that is much easier to learn than Tex, since the processor is
much more forgiving (it is processed by Fred Drake, after all).

> Change is inevitable.

That may be the case. Change to Docbook can be avoided if necessary.

Regards,
Martin


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Nov  6 16:17:12 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:17:12 GMT
Subject: newbie re question
References: <1osisu81483e4k3j905dun6diio6rt29ao@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <sFfy9.2868$h%5.101793@newsb.telia.net>

Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:

> I've been trying to grok re's and settled myself a little exercise:
> concoct a re for a Python identifier.
>
> Now what I got is
>
> >>> pattern = re.compile(r'(\s|^)([\w_][\w\._]*)(\s|$)')
> >>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
> [('', 'aadf', ' '), (' ', 'b', ' '), (' ', 'aasa', ' '), (' ', 'aa', '> '), (' ', 'aa_aa', ' ')]
>
> But as you can see from the results, not all valid identifiers get
> caught. For example, why isn't 'cdase' caught?

findall returns non-overlapping matches.  there's only a single space
between "aadf" and "cdase", and that was used by the first match.

here's a better pattern:

    pattern = re.compile(r'\b([a-zA-Z_]\w*)\b')

</F>




From mwh at python.net  Mon Nov 11 05:00:10 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:00:10 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <aqmj2e$k0g$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <tyfznsgzew1.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <7h3pttc2zvh.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> I can imagine that you could put """ """ around your Python
> definitions, do something similar by processing the resulting string,
> and then eval it ... but it sounds far too painful to try.

Been there.  It can be done, but you're right in saying that it's not
fun.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  ARTHUR:  But which is probably incapable of drinking the coffee.
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 6


From Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM  Tue Nov 12 07:41:21 2002
From: Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM (Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 04:41:21 -0800
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ?
References: <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOOENPDPAA.marklists@mceahern.com> <mailman.1036484650.32647.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <44ee1dc2.0211120441.465eeb62@posting.google.com>

testing with Netscape to see if ?reply? works IN the thread


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov 12 11:29:39 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 17:29:39 +0100
Subject: Calling methods in embedded python
References: <aqr9a8$qig$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>
Message-ID: <m3el9q69ak.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Krzysztof Wasilewski" <removenospam.krzysztof.wasilewski at koti.soon.fi> writes:

> 2) I import the module I want to use
> 3) I get the dictionary of that module
> 4) From the dictionary I get the function I need using
> PyDict_GetItemString()
> 5) I construct the parameter tuple
> 6) I execute the function using PyObject_CallObject()

Notice that these could be combined into a single function call

PyObject_CallMethod(moduleobj, "functionname", "format string", args);

since CallMethod is really the same as moduleobj.functionname(args);

> 5) Then I try to instantiate an object of this class using PyInstance_New(),
> passing the class I created. Unfortunately, this always fails - NULL is
> returned. Can anyone explain why? 

No. Did you try printing the exception? As you know, a return value of
NULL *always* indicates that an exception was raised, which carries
more information about the nature of the problem.

> What should be passed for kw? I tried an empty tuple, an empty list, PyNone
> and other things, but in vain.

It's the dictionary of keyword arguments (**kw), so it should be a
dictionary; NULL would also be acceptable.

> 6) Once I get an answer to this one, I plan to call a method of the
> instantiated object calling PyObject_CallMethod(). I hope that this is OK.

That should work fine.

Regards,
Martin


From anders at gamebox.net  Sat Nov  9 06:01:21 2002
From: anders at gamebox.net (A Nilsson)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 12:01:21 +0100
Subject: zip/unzip pictures doesn't work
References: <3DCCE633.5040301@gamebox.net> <3DCCE828.E8F646DD@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3DCCEB01.4040004@gamebox.net>

You're right! Thanks!
My first (failed) attempts were made on a Win NT.
Now I'm back on my own trustworthy linux machine and, hey, it works!

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> A Nilsson wrote:
> 
> 
>>I've been messing around with the zipfile module and discovered
>>something strange.
>>When I zip/unzip ordinary text files there's no problem but when i use
>>pictures (JPG and GIF) they get corrupted. I believe it is during the
>>unzip operation they get messed up.
> 
> 
> Sniff, sniff.  I smell a text/binary distinction (and I see you're on
> Windows).  Make sure you open the relevant files in binary mode by
> appending a 'b' character to the mode string.
> 



From b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u  Sat Nov  9 04:50:19 2002
From: b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u (Ben C)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:50:19 +1100
Subject: Point an MS Access / VB developer in the right direction...
References: <3dcb9830$1@duster.adelaide.on.net>
Message-ID: <3dccd9eb@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

Hi there,

the choices you will have to make are between GUI toolkits are

1. wxWindows ( works fine )
2.Qt ( also works fine ... a little more polished than wxWindows though )

I have built client front ends quite succsesfully to PostgreSQL (nice DB but
don't run it under Cygwin ... it's a bitch ;) ... and MS SQL server ( I had
to do it for work ... so no flames please) using wxWindows on win32 Systems
and Linux ...

If you run Postgres ... there is a GUI tool which will do a similar job as a
M$ Acess front end ... pgAccess ... their is also a win32 admin utility
pgAdminII which you can use if you don't want to telnet into the server and
use the psql admin shell

I am currently working on an app using the embedded SQLite DB rather than
use Access and wxWindows  ... (though this will be the last wxWindows app I
plan to write) ... this might be a good starting point? SQLite will run on
windows and linux and can be easily accessed using the pySQLite module ...
SQLite is typless and doesn't have ODBC connectivity as far as I know??
(though someone might have written an ODBC driver for it) ... however if you
keep your statements similar to ANSI SQL statements (with type declarations)
you can suck in whole tables etc into Postgres later on without too much
mucking around ...

I am now looking to shunt across to Qt though as IMHO I feel that Qt is a
little more evolved and www.thekompany.com have finally got a release of
Blackadder  for Python 2.2 today ... woohay!

I hope that helps?

cheers

Ben C


"Dan" <abuse at federal.gov.au> wrote in message
news:3dcb9830$1 at duster.adelaide.on.net...
> Hi all.
>
> I've been an Access / VB developer for 5 years. I've run Linux at home
> for 3.5 years, and I think it's about time I learned how to program for
> Linux.
> To start with, I would like to re-write some simple Access database
> front-ends from work (which connect to a MySQL & SQL Server backend) in
> Python.
> Now I assume that I'm not going to find on open source IDE which allows
> me to set up a query and connect it to a grid to display on a form in
> 'datasheet' mode (please correct me if I'm wrong). So where do I start?
> Also I to choose a gui widget thingy set. I have looked at the
> boa-constructor IDE, which uses wxwindows. This would be nice in my case
> as it works on Win2k and Linux. Any thoughts on this? I am also
> considering buying Rekall from The Kompany. It seems to provide what I
> want, but it's commercial. It's not that I have a problem with using a
> commercial product, but if I have a reasonable open-source choice I'll
> take it.
> Maybe someone has a link to a HOW-TO on making a simple data-aware form?
> Any advice greatly appreciated.
>
> Dan
>




From usenet at soegaard.net  Tue Nov 12 19:29:55 2002
From: usenet at soegaard.net (Jens Axel Søgaard)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:29:55 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnasvo0e.32k.Andreas.Leitgeb@pc7499.gud.siemens.at> <3DCFDE7A.8010404@web.de> <slrnat29ke.32k.Andreas.Leitgeb@pc7499.gud.siemens.at>
Message-ID: <3dd1ffd9$0$63936$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
Pascal:
>> If you are used to this kind of syntax, it's very simple. I don't
>> know enough Python (yet) in order to translate this, but in Java it
>> would look as follows.
>> 1 boolean buttonPressed (int slotId, Vector cardList) {
>> 2    return !(cardList.size() == 0) &&
>> 3           cardList.get(0).isVisible() &&
>> 4           ((slotId == 1) || (slotId > 5));
>> 5 }
>
> I'd have rewritten it differently (to show the point I was
> trying to make by calling the scheme-snippet ugly):
>   2    if (cardList.size() == 0) return false;
>   3    else if (!cardList.get(0).isVisible()) return false;
>   4    else return ((slotId == 1) || (slotId > 5));
> Now this doesn't make a big difference here, but it makes
> a lot of a difference, once, things get longer and deeper nested.

I find Pascal Constanzas version the easiest to read.
The if-then-else construction makes it hard to see
that it is boolean expression.

--
Jens Axel S?gaard





From cbbrowne at acm.org  Tue Nov  5 00:16:11 2002
From: cbbrowne at acm.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 05:16:11 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
Message-ID: <aq7k6q$6ufmv$1@ID-125932.news.dfncis.de>

In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, Daniel Pfeiffer <occitan at esperanto.org> transmitted:
> this morning it struck me that it would be nice to have Parrot not
> only run Perl 6 and similar byte code, but that any of the common
> interpreted languages be compiled to this same byte code.

I'd think it quite plausible that if someone took the project on,
there could readily be a pretty functional Python compiler for Parrot
/before/ a Perl 6 one would be likely to emerge...
-- 
(reverse (concatenate 'string "ac.notelrac.teneerf@" "454aa"))
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/sap.html
Signs of a Klingon Programmer - 7. "Klingon function calls do not have
'parameters' - they have 'arguments' -- and they ALWAYS WIN THEM."


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov 13 19:19:47 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:19:47 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqltkt$14s$1@news.hccnet.nl> <76c4da8e.0211101357.6a804d20@posting.google.com> <aqnv3e$ejs$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <3DD2EC23.4A96D358@alcyone.com>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:

> Without confirming that I want that, I would like to mention that
> functional languages can't have side effects.

That's usually what I've heard people call "pure functional languages,"
which are really relegated to academia.  Most program domains need to do
_some_ side effecting, like taking input and output.  (There are ways to
cleverly hide this in a functional way, but the input and output is
still technically a side effect.)

In my experience, most people use "functional language" to indicate a
language where things primarily get done via return values of functions
only but side effects are a necessary evil (for I/O or environment
changes).  Common Lisp and Scheme are functional languages, but they're
not pure functional.

One might talk about languages that _support_ functional paradigms but
don't primarily rely upon them; Python would qualify in this respect.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I do not like work even when someone else does it.
\__/ Mark Twain
    Bosskey.net: Aliens vs. Predator 2 / http://www.bosskey.net/avp2/
 A personal guide to Aliens vs. Predator 2.


From josiah7 at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 24 07:53:31 2002
From: josiah7 at hotmail.com (Josiah)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 04:53:31 -0800
Subject: Repost: Tkinter Checkbox Question
References: <b4d1dd0c.0211231818.577e0929@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038105253.27605.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b4d1dd0c.0211240453.37e15c1@posting.google.com>

Jeff: Thank you so Much, This has been driving me nuts! When I used 
"self.var = IntVar(master)", in the above code as you suggested, it works fine!
This is under windows XP (Sorry I didn't mention).

 Thanks!


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Sat Nov 30 13:16:48 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:16:48 GMT
Subject: Is there a bright future for open software projects?
References: <mailman.1038678221.24481.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gsvhuu0qpm9t2qggie9ke0j80eo9a96roe@4ax.com>

>What companies like ActiveState.com or similar live on if they offer free software?

There are many companies, even ones with a predominately software business, that
actually don't sell packaged software, but instead sell software development
_services_. These companies are usually supportive of internal open source efforts,
because a successful open source project provides marketing material for selling
the company's services.

The downside is that, in companies like this, one has to be billable to a client
a great deal of the time. Clients usually have specific problems that they want
solved, and your open software effort is of no concern to them.

C//



From maney at pobox.com  Sat Nov 16 12:00:43 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:00:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python instead of php
References: <pan.2002.11.16.12.25.12.658252@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <ar5tjr$1re$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Marten Bauer <Marten.Bauer at gmx.net> wrote:
> Is it possible to use python like php as script language to writte
> the Userinterfaces also in html and python?

Yes, Python is an excellent language for web site/app scripting!

> Is modpython for apache or Twisted from Tweak Labroratory a possible
> way?

Yes.  You might want to take a look at the Quixote publishing
framework.  It seems to me to be a good match to code-intensive web
apps.  I'm using it for one such that is heavily database-driven with
very good results.

  http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/

Quixote scripts can easily be moved between plain CGI (slow, but great
for development as your changes take effect instantly), fastCGI, or
modpython; I use the first two of these myself.

Luck!


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Nov 23 08:29:59 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:29:59 -0500
Subject: int() shortcoming?
References: <y8h3cptpttf.fsf@spinetta.mcs.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <utv0mmqkcs2dd8@news.supernews.com>

"Matthew Knepley" <knepley at mcs.anl.gov> wrote in message
news:y8h3cptpttf.fsf at spinetta.mcs.anl.gov...
>        Is there a reason I should have to specify the base for a
string
> conversion using int() when it is already clear from the form? For
instance:
>
> >>> oct(15)
> '017'
> >>> int('017')
> 17
> >>> int('017', 8)
> 15
>
> and hexidecimal actually generates an error.

To whom is this clear? For me, it is one of the many idiocies
foisted off on a gullable programming community by the inventors
of the 'c' programming language (although it may have deeper
roots.)

In other words, what's "clear" depends on your background. The
numeric literal syntax is not at all clear to a novice; it's simply an
idiom that they have to learn.

John Roth
>
>     Thanks,
>
>         Matt
> --
> "Failure has a thousand explanations. Success doesn't need one" -- Sir
Alec Guiness




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 05:49:26 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:49:26 GMT
Subject: "properties" idiom
References: <mailman.1037859809.14673.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <WS2D9.49079$Yw.2280056@news2.tin.it>

Terry Hancock wrote:

> I could swear I saw a conversation about this on list, but I'm having
> trouble finding anything relevant.
> 
> Let's say I have a class that exposes an attribute  x as part of it's
> public API:
> 
> class spam:
>     def __init__(self, x):
>         self.x = x
> 
> Due to later development, however, it's clear (hypothetically)
> that setting or getting the value of x, requires a method call
> (to update a database, for example).

Perfectly right, and a frequent occurrence: you are designing a
class, thus implicitly an interface that the class 'publishes' to
other code using it ('client code'); right now the implementation
naturally suggests making attribute 'x' a client-code-accessible
data attribute, but you want to reserve the option to change
things in the future so that client code accessing to setting x
causes some method to execute.

That's exactly motivation number one for the "property" concept: it
lets you expose your attributes WITHOUT worrying that this will
restrict your options in the future, so you never have to design
boilerplace accessor and mutator methods just to keep flexibility.


> Is there a standard idiom for calling that method when an outside
> caller does something like:
> 
> spaminstance.x = 42
> 
> or
> 
> y = spaminstance.x

Yes: there are in fact two of them.  One works in every version of
Python since at least 1.5.2 (earlier I believe) and with every kind
of Python class, but is a bit clunky.  The other standard works
only with Python 2.2 and later and with "new-style" classes, but
is slicker.

The classic approach hinges on methods __setattr__ and __getattr__.

If your class C defines a C.__setattr__, then ANY setting of an
attribute of an instance I of C actually calls __setattr__ instead:
    I.x = 42
actually becomes
    I.__setattr__('x', 42)

You must code your __setattr__ method to deal with ALL attribute
settings appropriately, e.g. via self.__dict__[name] = value when
you want to treat such a setting of attribute name to value in
the "normal/usual" way -- that's what makes the approach a bit
clunky.  There is no distinction between code "inside" vs "outside"
the class.  __getattr__ is different -- it's only called when the
NORMAL ways to look for an attribute (in the object's dictionary,
in the object's class, in the bases of said class) have failed --
so it's really quite a bit handier.  But exactly because it's only
called for otherwise-failing lookups, this gives constraints:
  -- __getattr__ must raise AttributeError for attributes you
     don't want to appear to be there
  -- you must keep the actual value of the attribute somewhere
     the normal search process won't find it, so __getattr__ gets
     a chance -- popular approaches are [a] using attribute '_x'
     to hold the value of what's accessed from outside as 'x', or
     [b] having _another_ per-instance dict besides self.__dict__
     and using the OTHER dict to keep attributes such that attempts
     to access them must go through __getattr__

So, all in all, it's quite feasible, and enough to remove worries
in interface-design work, but when called upon to operate, it's
a bit clunky.  Which is why, in 2.2 and only for new-style classes,
the alternative 'property' built-in was introduced -- I see others
have already covered that, so I won't repeat it.

My suggestion: use 'property' when you possibly can, but don't
worry, since if for any reason it's an old-style class you need,
or in order to keep compatibility with old Python versions, you
can get the same effect in whatever kind of class and whatever
version of Python, albeit with more work and less speed.


> (i.e. when we see this, my class actually calls an internal method,
> spaminstance.__set_x(42)).  If so, I'd have the same flexibility as if I
> had used get_x()/set_x() accessor methods, but my code would
> be simpler for the most common case.  Can you do this with Python
> today?  I was thinking there might be a way using __getattr__ and
> __setattr__, but it initially looks very complex -- is there a preferred
> way to do it?

Right on target on both scores.


> I'm defining an interface now, and I'm wondering whether I should
> go with attributes or accessor-methods.  I've been using accessor
> methods, but it bloats the interface quite a bit, and I'm wondering if I
> can make the interface simpler this way.

And here, too.  Cluttering your class with accessors is quite
unPythonic.  Use properties and you'll be much happier!


Alex



From joconnor at cybermesa.com  Thu Nov  7 23:51:03 2002
From: joconnor at cybermesa.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:51:03 +0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20021108.115059.1034949299.9010@cybermesa.com>

In article <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list at python.org>, "David
Garamond" <davegaramond at icqmail.com> wrote:

> Oleg wrote:
>> I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison between
>> Python and Common Lisp (
>> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
>> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
> 
> one sentence: "syntax matters." for people in denial, make it two: "yes
> it really does."
> 
> or, rephrased: indentation and "1+1" scare people less than parentheses
> and "(add 1 1)" or something like that.


Yes, I was a Python advocate in a TCL shop for awhile and had a hard time convincing
people that there was a qualitative difference between.

set x [lindex [lindex $var 5] 5]

and 

x = var[5][5]

-- 
Jay O'Connor
joconnor at cybermesa.com
http://www.r4h.org/r4hsoftware


From aaron at reportlab.com  Tue Nov 12 10:54:01 2002
From: aaron at reportlab.com (Aaron Watters)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 07:54:01 -0800
Subject: lisp scheme lush python etc.
References: <mailman.1036769111.29831.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9a6d7d9d.0211120754.5245cc65@posting.google.com>

> 
> It seems to me that Lush (http://lush.sourceforge.net) has the potential to be really useful. 
> And, the developers mention "bindings to the JavaVM API and to the Python C API"
> (as I can see, this is yet not here, but things are rapidly changing in CVS everyday).
> The symbiosis of Lisp and Python can be very interesting...
> 
> 
>                                                     Mike

Well I got curious and looked at Lush.  It seems that if you
are interested in using an experimental language only on Linux
Lush could be interesting, but I'm going back to (stackless)
python after I write this.

I abandoned Lisps and scheme for Python about a decade ago
(with misgivings) primarily because
   0) portability and stability
   1) libraries and portable extension framework
   2) it's friendly to other software 
      (from above and below and anywhere else)
   3) the syntax doesn't stink 
      (but if it was done over I'd add brackets)
   4) it's easy enough for noneggheads
   5) Everything I liked to do that was easy
      in Lisps was also easy (and clearer too) in
      Python. (ymmv)
It seems to me that most similar languages still
fail on at least one of the above.  (1,3,5) are very
much judgement calls, of course.

The major thing that is missing, of course is some sort of
(optional, inferred) type checking.  I'm also getting
nervous about bloat...

my 2c.  -- Aaron Watters

---
Never eat anything bigger than your head. -Kliban


From hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com  Thu Nov  7 09:33:34 2002
From: hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:33:34 GMT
Subject: slow on HPUX, SunOS, fast on MS Win2K and Linux?
Message-ID: <xqxlm45jvpd.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Is there some reason python code which builds objects should be
notably slow on HPUX or SunOS? Some known code optimization problem?

We are seeing:

> -----------
> import cPickle
> f = 
> open("/acct/mad5486/SpecEngineV0/bac5117-compiled.xml-pickled",'r')
> xml_dom_object = cPickle.load(f)
> ----------------------------END-------------------------------
> ----------
> 
> Times:
> 
>  5 seconds on Intel / Linux
>  5 seconds on Intel / Win2k
> 33 seconds on HP-UX 11.0  (uname -a: HP-UX dblv018 B.11.00 E 9000/800)
> 22 seconds on Sun OS (uname -a: SunOS wizard 5.8 
> Generic_112953-02 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-Enterpris) 
> 17 seconds on HP-UX 10.2  (uname -a: HP-UX drtn029 B.10.20 E 9000/819)
> 

The Win2K and Linux boxes are (nearly) identical hardware.  The others
are serious machines with substantial RAM.  The guy running the tests
tried to isolate for these issues:

1. No one else on the machine; light load of background tasks.

2. Code and datafile cached in RAM (no delays due to LAN-based file
   servers).

3. Results similar for Py 1.5.2 and 2.2.1 on each machine.

4. According to "top" process was getting 99% of CPU, and it was CPU
   bound.

5. While this example is from the pickle, the same effects were seen
   for the original PyXML parse of the DOM.

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757


From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Nov 13 05:05:28 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 02:05:28 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <aqsoo7$v8$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <002701c28afc$320427c0$21795418@dell1700>

Martin wrote:
> You'll be wanting to throw out all manner of things on that basis,
since
> there's nothing of much use that hasn't been the source of problems
for
> some.  I know, you have to draw the line somewhere, but to me this
seems
> like a good deal of value to lose for what IME is little gain in
> idiot-proofing.  I can agree that the value seems to be lower in
Python in
> that the need for this arises less often than in, say, C.  I haven't
yet
> decided if I think that's due more to the language itself or to the
way
> the lack of operator= has led to the construction of facilities to 
> make it unnecessary for common uses.  :-/

The fact that VC++ and CW both generate warnings for inline assignment
(I don't know about gcc) leads me to suspect that it is a particularly
frequent source of problems.

> Think about the straightforward implementation of this in legal Python
> with less undersized indentation than I used before:

So you do not intend every block in other programming languages? I do...

> Yes, that approach occurred to me.  It seemed, and still seems, like a
> great deal of overhead and effort for little if any gain in clarity,
> although it certainly does solve the marching right off the 
> screen problem.

How are you measuring overhead? Lines of code? Performance? My technique
actually uses less lines of code as the number of record types
increases.

And if it required a lot of effort, I wouldn't have written the code for
this discussion :-) In total it probably took me 30 seconds to think of
the solution and 2 minutes to type it (mostly because my mail client
doesn't autoindent).
 
> > Notice that:
> > - it is very easy to add new record types
> 
> You have two things that have to be added for each new case: a regexp
and
> a code block.  

But I don't have to go looking through the file processing code to add
my regexp and code block. I just add it to a list.
 
> neither does the savings in explicit logic
> boilerplate appear to outweigh the function-form bolierplate it
requires.

They code size is identical in either case.

I don't really understand your complaint. My solution has a few
advantages over the inline assignment version and only costs you about
three lines of code. So it is really worth arguing for inline
assignment? I would say no, at least from looking at this example.

Cheers,
Brian




From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Nov 12 16:47:42 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:47:42 -0800
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
In-Reply-To: <20021112190718.A31484@ibook.distro.conectiva>
Message-ID: <000d01c28a95$213cfb40$21795418@dell1700>

I don't like the augmented operations because, depending on the object,
the operation may or may not be done in-place. 

I think that it is better to be explicit and use assignment or method
call. That way you know what you are getting.

Cheers,
Brian 




From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 23:30:59 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:30:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Questions about tuple?
In-Reply-To: <000f01c287b7$af068440$310aa8c0@duallie>
Message-ID: <20021109043059.52296.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>

> It's called a dictionary.
> 
> dict = {"a":1, "b":3, "l":2, "p":8, "m":(1,2,3,4,5),
> "z":"blah"}
> 
> dict.keys()
> >>> ("a", "b", "l", "p","m","z")
> 
> dict.values()
> >>> (1,3,2,8,(1,2,3,4,5),"blah")
> 
> dict["a"]
> >>>1

> dict["m"]
> >>>(1,2,3,4,5)

Thanks for your reply.
In this example, actually what I want is to get
1,2,3,4,5 seperately from (1,2,3,4,5) and put them
into five different lists, say, list1 =
[1],list2=[2],list3=[3],list4=[4],list5=[5].

Is there any simply way to "split" a tuple? Thanks!



=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Nov 26 17:49:41 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:49:41 +1100
Subject: if <assignment>:
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A790@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: maney at pobox.com [mailto:maney at pobox.com]
> 
> That part, however, does not match my own experience.  After the typos
> that the compiler catches have been fixed, the "real" errors don't
> include a very large percentage of =/== confusion.

I didn't mean to imply that these were the only studies, and that other
studies didn't produce any other conclusions, only that there *have* been
extensive studies which have returned these conclusions.

Most studies after all do have a specific agenda in mind ;)

Tim Delaney



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sat Nov 23 08:54:47 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 05:54:47 -0800
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211230554.1cde87bb@posting.google.com>

> I would like to know more specifically what features make Python 
> special to you. As Kenny put it, in what regards is Pythonthink 
> different from Otherlangthink?

Different languages have different "natural" ways of doing things, so
you have to think accordingly to the language you have at your
disposal. I want to be specific here, and I take an example you cited
in this tread, i.e. the problem discussed in
http://csis.pace.edu/~bergin/patterns/ppoop.html

Here the authors discuss different ways of solving a simple problem in
the same
language, according to different phylosophies. Here it is the solution
I came out in Python in two seconds of thinking, the "natural"
solution at this stage of my knowledge of Python:

def print_OS_evaluation():
    "Gives a thought evaluation of operating systems"

    import sys

    def GoodBox():
        print "This is a good box"

    def BadBox():
        print "This is a bad box"
   
    def UnknownBox():
        print "This is not a box"
          
    printEvaluation={
       'linux2':GoodBox,
       'sunos5': GoodBox,         
       'win32':BadBox}.get(sys.platform,UnknownBox)

    return printEvaluation

The code is pretty obvious, but let me discuss how would I have
"naturally" solved the problem in other languages. Was I coding in
Basic or Fortran, I would have written something like

if platform='linux' then call GoodBox()
elseif platform='win32' then call BadBox()
elseif ...

Very ugly, but these languages (I refer to the old Basic of the early
80's I
learned as my first programming language, or Fortran 77 which is
unfortunately still too much used in the scientific environment) don't
allow you to do much more than that.
You cannot simply *think* of another solution. 

On the other hand, was I working in Pascal or C, where "case" and
"switch" constructs exist, I would have certainly used them. The code
would have been less ugly, and more adapted to these languages, not
simply a translation from Basic.

When I learned Python I discovered dictionaries and I immediately get
in love with them; I started using dictionaries from my first
programs. They allow me to
*think* better, I believe, and now I use the if..elif.. construct much
less
than before. The idea of having a dictionary of functions appeals to
me much
more than a switch statement; still I couldn't have thought of this
possibility
before the discovery of Python. Dictionaries have strongly changed my
way of
solving problems: and you will agree that this is a feature that not
all
languages have or stress as much as Python. I am sure Lisp has even
more
sophisticated ways of doing the same thing; actually I always wanted
to know
more about Lisp, but the parenthesis always stopped me ;-<.

I want to comment on OOP, too. As a I said in a previous posting, I am
still
in the process of learning OOP. At this state of my knowlegde, I tend
to think that OOP is a great idea, but sometimes overkill and too
verbose. That's the reason why even if the original code in
http://csis.pace.edu/~bergin/patterns/ppoop.html
used a class, I prefer to use a function instead. It seems to me that,
for simple tasks, functions are still better and easier to grasp. Of
course objects have their advantages, but if I don't plan to inherit
from a class doing the job of print_OS_evaluation, why should I use a
class at all ? Functions are shorter and easier to maintain, in my
view. Still, the biggest issue I have with OOP is a syntactical one:
too verbose for my taste.

The fact that the code before has come to me naturally, let me suppose
that I
*think* dictionaries and I *think* functions; but not yet objects. I
will say
that I will think *Python* when ALL the constructs of Python,
including dictionaries,lists, strings, functions, objects, etc.  will
be natural to me.

The reason is that Python is multiparadigm himself: therefore if you
want to understand Python you must become multiparadigm yourself. To
be open to different views is in the phylosophy of the language. Other
languages have different phylosophies: for instance Ruby claims one of
its strenghts to be "pure" OOP. If you want to *think* that language,
than you must think "pure" OOP and starting subclassing from
numbers... ;-)

I hope I have answered your question this time: 

Q: what features make Python special to you ?

A: dictionaries (and a lot of other stuff ;-)

Ciao,

                                                Michele


From nicholas.y at NOSPAM.immersivetechnologies.com  Thu Nov  7 21:48:51 2002
From: nicholas.y at NOSPAM.immersivetechnologies.com (Nicholas Yue)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:48:51 +0800
Subject: Approach to Python extension with C++
Message-ID: <3dcb261e$0$15742@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

I have a need to write Python interfaces to some commercial libraries that
are available on Windows and Linux.

I have read about the steps to do that in Mark Hammond's Python Programming
book and have also read the extending Python in the Python Essential
Reference (first version).

I am attempting to write the interface in a cross platform manner, is the
use of Setup.in and compile.py the way to go.

I am using ActiveState Python 2.2.2 on Windows and probably 2.0/2.1/2.2 on
Linux.
I am writing the interface code in C++.

What is your advice?





From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Tue Nov 12 03:27:42 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:27:42 +0100
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <aqokmr$lgb$1@news.netpower.no> <aqp3b3$jm3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <aqqe0s$lvq$1@news.netpower.no>

"Carl Banks" <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote in message
news:aqp3b3$jm3$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu...
>
>
> Because it's fun!!!
>

Fair enough - I too have tried writing illegable python code (see below).  I
remember once having a game for the BBC Micro writen in a single line of
Basic...

>
> while 1: globals().setdefault("a",0); globals().setdefault("b",1); \
>     __import__("sys").stdout.write("%d "% a); a,b=b+a,a
>

I've learned something here - I didn't know you could access globals() in
this way.  (I also didn't know you could do such on-the-fly imports, but
that has less use outside the scope of one-liners).


Here's a challenge for perl programmers - define a function to take a string
and produce a CRC checksum of the string, all in one line:

foobar = lambda ts : reduce(lambda x, y : reduce(lambda (x, s), b : (x, (((s
\
<< 1) & 0xff) + ((x & (1 << b)) > 0)) ^ ((s & 0x80) >> 7) * 0x8d), range(8),
\
(0, x^y))[1], map(ord, [t for t in ts]), 0)


Usage:
    foobar("Hello")






From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Thu Nov 14 10:54:51 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:54:51 +0000
Subject: Seeking advice on locking iterators
Message-ID: <pfg7tuoefe0vp6vo2oj2p66vm1o3tdtb86@4ax.com>

Hi,

My problem is the following: I have a top object Application, roughly
corresponding to the main thread, that spawns some child threads -
objects on their own sake, deriving from the Thread class in the
threading module. They communicate when they need to via queues in the
usual way. So far so nice.

The problem is that those same child objects expose some public
attributes (or properties, or methods, does not matter) that the
Application object may need to change/call and doing the change via the
queue mechanism is conceptually wrong (and a real PITA). The solution is
obvious: wrap the attributes with locks around it. What is not so
obvious is when these attributes are complex objects themselves, in
particular they are iterables. In order to call iter() on these objects
safely I coded the following helper class:

#WARNING: Brittle - use this at your own risk.
class TIter(object):
    """The TIter helper class, wrapping an iterator for thread safe
acess."""

    def __init__(self, lock, iterator):
        super(TIter, self).__init__(lock, iterator)
        self.__lock = lock
        self.__iterator = iter(iterator)
        #Acquire lock => You cannot change the underlying structure
        #while iter not exhausted.
        self.__lock.acquire()
        self.__acquired = 1

    #Iterator protocol.
    def __iter__(self):
        return self

    def next(self):
        try:
            ret = self.__iterator.next()
        except StopIteration:
            self.__lock.release()
            self.__acquired = 0
            raise StopIteration
        else:
            return ret

    def __del__(self):
        if self.__acquired:
            self.__lock.release()

The idea is that for the wrapping of a given attribute one has an
associated lock (a reentrant lock, usually) that is passed to the ITer
constructor. I have to ensure two things, though:

* The lock is acquired while the iterator is alive.
* The lock is released when the iterator is disposed of.

So, finally, my question is: Is the above enough to ensure this? Can I
be sure that __del__ is called if the iterator is garbage collected
before being exhausted? Or is there a better (e.g. safer) mechanism for
this?

Any enlightenment is appreciated, with my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From ngps at netmemetic.com  Thu Nov 14 20:11:03 2002
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 01:11:03 GMT
Subject: simple rsh and python question
References: <d453156a.0211141053.7de1422@posting.google.com> <Xns92C6E4477BF46cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <ar1hj7$3i5$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Chris Liechti  <cliechti at gmx.net>:
> rwadkins at flash.net (Randy Wadkins) wrote in 
> news:d453156a.0211141053.7de1422 at posting.google.com:
> > Is there any way to rsh from a shell script to nodes in a cluster and
> > execute a python script that will run in the background on each node? 
> > It appears that the execution is stopped once the rsh command is
> > completed.
>
> look up "nohup". otherwise any programm attached to the terminal are 
> terminated when the terminal is closed. (HangUP signal)

Supposing OP wrote those scripts he's executing remotely, he can also fix
them to DTRT wrt dissociating from the terminal and all that daemonic
stuff.

I'm sure there must be some recipes floating about for that.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> * http://www.netmemetic.com



From akakakhel at attbi.com  Tue Nov 26 19:11:35 2002
From: akakakhel at attbi.com (Ali K)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:11:35 GMT
Subject: CVS
Message-ID: <X4UE9.128865$WL3.60156@rwcrnsc54>

What is CVS?




From jkraska at san.rr.com  Fri Nov 29 12:17:34 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:17:34 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyfy97ew0o7.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <3DE666F0.32F64BA6@alcyone.com> <f6scuus406jor5ka1kr7sj80serq7215gd@4ax.com> <3DE67AD1.59C3560D@alcyone.com> <oavcuus0p1j8s09deelieavoh8nrrbrlhn@4ax.com> <3DE72071.D9D35392@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <338fuu0rv7nf4v7kre5kkbb1emgfrmo2sr@4ax.com>

>My point was not that Lisp programming is not facilitated by a
>Lisp-aware editor.  I'm an emacs user myself, and am fully aware of
>standard Lisp notations, and am fully ware of lisp-mode in emacs.

It would seem that you are, after all, fully aware of my point.

C//



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Nov 20 21:10:44 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:10:44 -0600
Subject: Need Function To Run As Long As Button Widget Pressed
In-Reply-To: <b4d1dd0c.0211201704.1cb336c6@posting.google.com>
References: <b4d1dd0c.0211201704.1cb336c6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021120201034.A15580@unpythonic.net>

I spot several errors in your program.

>       self.buttonGo = Button(frame, text= "Print", command=self.Go)

The command of a button only fires after a mouse button is pressed and
then released inside the widget.  So self.Go will be called too late, after
the button is released.  Instead, make "go" be called when the button is
first pressed, on the <Button-1> event.

>   def IsPressed(event):

The first argument of each method must be the 'self' argument.  All events
(as opposed to a button's command) have an event parameters in the
callback.  You need
    def IsPressed(self, event): ...

>          self.after(10, self.Go())

You want to perform the function "Go" after 10ms, not the function returned
by "Go".  Instead, write
          self.after(10, self.Go)

Also, I don't see how your 'self' gets an 'after' attribute (method) since
it doesn't derive from BaseWidget.

You might consider using "after_idle(self.Go)".  Instead of waiting 10ms,
it will wait until all events have been serviced, then call Go.

Or, depending on your situation, you could write 'Go()' as a function which
calls "self.frame.update()" from time to time.  "update()" handles peding
events and then returns.  This way, you can write your processing loop in
the straightforward way:
	def go():
		for i in range(1000):
			process_a_little(i)
			self.frame.update()
instead of the cumbersome (and possibly wrong) way:
	def go():
		i = self.i
		if i < 1000:
			process_a_little(i)
			self.afterid = self.frame.after_idle(go)
			self.i = i + 1

My solution also uses a label instead of a button since it doesn't use any
of the button's builtin bindings anyway (mostly, these implement the
mechanics of -command).  It still uses plain after().  Otherwise, it uses
the suggestions I've made here.

Jeff



from Tkinter import *

class App:
    interval = 100

    def __init__(self, master):
        self.button = Label(master, text="Go", relief="raised")
        self.button.bind("<Button-1>", self.press)
        self.button.bind("<ButtonRelease-1>", self.release)
        self.button.bind("<Leave>", self.release)
        self.button.pack()

        self.status = 0
        self.afterid = None
        self.after = master.after
        self.after_cancel = master.after_cancel

    def press(self, ev):
        self.button.configure(relief="sunken")
        self.status = 1
        if self.afterid is None:
            self.afterid = self.after(self.interval, self.go)

    def release(self, ev):
        self.button.configure(relief="raised")
        if self.afterid is not None:
            self.after_cancel(self.afterid)
            self.afterid = None

    def go(self):
        print "Working"
        self.afterid = self.after(self.interval, self.go)

root = Tk()
app = App(root)
root.mainloop()




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Nov  7 08:25:27 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:25:27 +0100
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk> <aqajfv$qqr$1@news.netpower.no> <918bc22f.0211060732.47b2198d@posting.google.com> <aqbifg$6qd$1@news.hccnet.nl> <918bc22f.0211061829.2d94e681@posting.google.com> <aqco2l$q2f$0@216.39.172.122> <aqdc1t$plg$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <aqdpmv$lv1$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:33:51 +0100, "David Brown"
<david at no.westcontrol.spam.com> wrote:

>Have you considered whether Python is really a suitable language for this
>job?  It is probably ideal for your first project, but not necessarily for
>the second one.  Python makes it easy to write great software, but it also
>makes it easy to make mistakes which can only be found at run-time.  You
>might want to consider writing the key working parts of the software in a
>language designed with safety and reliability in mind, such as Ada (not C!),
>while using Python for the secondary work (user interface, logging results,
>or whatever).

This thread is filled with reverse psychology! First the idea is
proposed to use the GPL because it's in the best interest of the
babys, which is doubtfull. Then it amounts to using lawyers to protect
the interests the authors of the sourcode, which would certainly
damage the interests of the babys. Now it reaches a state where using
a "safe and reliable" language is proposed instead of using python,
which is comparabale to throwing away the babys and keeping only the
bathing water.

Please stop trying not to start a flame war.

AV.


From nelson at crynwr.com  Sun Nov 10 22:48:26 2002
From: nelson at crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 22:48:26 -0500
Subject: PEP #99484663
References: <m2isz6ue4f.fsf@desk.crynwr.com> <3DCE065A.D770FADF@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <m2heeovkad.fsf@desk.crynwr.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> Program in the language you're using.  The proper answer to "How do I
> make language X (which I'm learning) more like language Y (which I'm
> used to)?" is "Learn language X separately from language Y."

How is this going to stop them from whinging about significant
indentation?  I think we're trying to solve different problems.

-- 
-russ nelson              http://russnelson.com |
Crynwr sells support for free software  | PGPok | it's better to be free
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | than to be correct.
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | +1 315 268 9201 FAX   |


From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 13 11:33:26 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 16:33:26 GMT
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <aqt734$r6j$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3dd27ed6$0$4440$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <aqt734$r6j$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:

> Your mention of Delphi made me recall that you can right click on a gui form
> and select 'view as text' from the popup menu, and you get to see all the
> parameters that define your layout. E.g. a default form with one button dropped
> on it near the top left:
> 
> object Form1: TForm1
>   Left = 200
>   Top = 108
>   Width = 544
>   Height = 375
>   Caption = 'Form1'
[...]
>   object Button1: TButton
>     Left = 40
>     Top = 24
>     Width = 75
>     Height = 25
>     Caption = 'Button1'

<rant>

One warning: there is a very special place reserved in hell for
people who design GUI dialogs with hard-wired widget locations
so that the dialogs can't be resized.  One of the reasons I
really hate working with MS-Windows because of all the dialog
boxes that use 80% of the space in a dialog for useless crap,
and then show only four lines in a list-box containing 100+
elements.  A decent GUI would let you resize the dialog so you
could see more of the stuff in the list-box.  But not
MS-Windows....

</rant>

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  When you get your
                                  at               PH.D. will you get able to
                               visi.com            work at BURGER KING?


From andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no  Mon Nov 25 11:18:38 2002
From: andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_N=E6ss?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:18:38 +0000
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038239014.28872.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <artigu$52f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no>

sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

>> From: Andr? N?ss [mailto:andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no]
>> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 8:00 AM
>> 
>> When I started learning Python one of the things that
>> surprised me was that you couldn't do assignments inside
>> the if clause, e.g.:
>> 
>> if myvar = someFunction():
>>
> 
> Why does it surprise you?
> 
> Most all languages, except those of C descent, don't
> have if <assignment>.

Well then you're probably not surprised that my background is in C, Java, 
and PHP, hence my surprise. :)

Andr? N?ss


From johnfabel at btinternet.com  Mon Nov 25 10:14:22 2002
From: johnfabel at btinternet.com (John Abel)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:14:22 +0000
Subject: Multi Recipients With smtplib?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1038231874.18339.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1038231874.18339.python-list@python.org> <NrqE9.83869$iw.18048@FE06>
Message-ID: <3DE23E4E.9050804@btinternet.com>

Sorry for the confusing question, but you got the gist of it (Phew!). 
 I'm pulling the list of addresses out of .ini file, e.g.

mailfrom=me at mydomain.org
mailto=you at yourdomain.org,me at myotherdomain.org

Basically, what I was doing, was passing the mailto value to 
.sendmail().  The header seem correct (viewed via Mozilla, with headers 
set to all), which is what was confusing me.

Thanks for the pointers!

Regards

John

Steve Holden wrote:

>"John Abel" <john.abel at pa.press.net> wrote in message
>news:mailman.1038231874.18339.python-list at python.org...
>  
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I am trying to send a mail, to multiple recipients, without much
>>success.  A single mail address works fine, but when I add another,
>>using a comma to separate the addresses, the second address fails to
>>receive the mail.  Any ideas?  Here's the code I am using:
>>
>>        mailMessage = "From: %s \r\nTo: %s\r\n" % (self.mailFrom,
>>self.mailTo)
>>        mailMessage += "Subject: %s\r\n%s" % (mailSubject, mailBody)
>>        try:
>>            self.MailConn.sendmail( self.mailFrom, self.mailTo,
>>    
>>
>mailMessage)
>  
>
>>        except (smtplib.SMTPRecipientsRefused,
>>smtplib.SMTPSenderRefused), ErrorMsg:
>>            print "There Was A Problem Sending The Mail.  Reason: %s" %
>>ErrorMsg
>>
>>Any help would be appreciated, as this is driving me mad!
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Given that yout code is arranged to print an error message it's a pity you
>didn't give us the benefit of its output so we knew a little more about the
>erre that's occurring.
>
>The arguments to the .sendmail() method should be:
>
>    a string containing the sender's address
>    a list of strings containing an address for each recipient, and
>    an RFC822-formatted mail message
>
>I am guessing that when you say "but when I add another, using a comma to
>separate the addresses, the second address fails to receive the mail" you
>are setting the self.mailTo attribute to be a comma-separated list ot
>recipients? Frankly I'm not sure how you are managing to get this mail
>formatted.
>
>What you really want for multiple recipients is something like the
>following:
>
>
>    self.mailFrom = me at mydomain.com
>    self.mailTo = ["him at hisdomain.com", "her at herdomain.com",
>"it at itsdomain.net"]
>    ...
>    mailMessage = "From: %s \r\nTo: %s\r\n" \
>                % (self.mailFrom, ", ".join(self.mailTo))
>    mailMessage += "Subject: %s\r\n%s" % (mailSubject, mailBody)
>        try:
>            self.MailConn.sendmail( self.mailFrom, self.mailTo, mailMessage)
>        except (smtplib.SMTPRecipientsRefused,
>                smtplib.SMTPSenderRefused), ErrorMsg:
>            print "There Was A Problem Sending The Mail.  Reason: %s" \
>                    % ErrorMsg
>
>In other words, use a comma-separated list of recipients in the message
>body, but a list of email addresses as the second argument to .sendmail().
>
>regards
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
>Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/
>Previous .sig file retired to                    www.homeforoldsigs.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>  
>





From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov 23 01:33:05 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:33:05 -0800
Subject: Time Problem [more]
References: <7396d2b2.0211221046.4a5216dd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DDF2121.653A66E6@alcyone.com>

Lemniscate wrote:

> I posted an issue with the time module, it turns out that I think I
> was just being stupid.  GMT right?  If so, Sorry.

Yep.  When you're seeing weirdness when dealing with times
programmatically (whether in Python or not) and it's only varying in the
hour, it's a solid bet that time zone differences are involved.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The little I know, I owe to my ignorance.
\__/ Sacha Guitry
    Bosskey.net: Counter-Strike / http://www.bosskey.net/cs/
 A personal guide to Counter-Strike.


From graik at web.de  Wed Nov  6 14:17:01 2002
From: graik at web.de (Raik Gruenberg)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:17:01 +0100
Subject: segmentation fault when unpickling an object in another Python instance
Message-ID: <3DC96AAD.9090503@web.de>

Hi all,

I have got some home-made class. From within the same Python interpreter 
  I can create, dump and load it back without any problem. But, if I try 
to load it after re-starting the interpreter, I end up with a 
segmentation fault.

Example (Traj is the trouble maker, Load and Dump are just wrappers for 
cPickle.load and dump):

from Traj import Traj
from tools import Load, Dump

t = Traj(['../test/lig.pdb'], '../test/lig.pdb')

Dump( t, 't.t' )

-----
... NOW RESTART PYTHON ...
-----

 >>> from tools import *
 >>> Load( 't.t' )

Process Python segmentation fault

It's all the same regardless whether I use Python 2.2 or 2.1. Switching 
to pickle.load and dump doesn't change anything either. However, only 
this particular class is affected.

Given the segmentation fault, at least, some sort of Python bug must be 
involved, right? Obviously, it is also somewhat the fault of this 
particular class. I narrowed down the problem somewhat. But, before 
bothering you with all the details, perhaps anyone knows this problem or 
has some promising idea???

Thanks for any hints/suggestions!
Raik



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Nov 20 15:38:50 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:38:50 -0500
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
References: <mailman.1037821774.32088.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <utnsmqsmp20b51@news.supernews.com>

"Brian Quinlan" <brian at sweetapp.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037821774.32088.python-list at python.org...
> Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> > Sorry for digressing, but this reminds me of an old debate on
whether
> > Python is suitable as the first language to teach.
> >
> > Well, the thing is that Python works with "name binding". And the
> > concepts of name spaces, name binding, objects, mutability, etc. are
> > just a bit non-obvious. Once a person understands these things, or
if
> > a person knows about pointers, hashmaps and memory structure,
> > everything becomes clear. But for someone not familiar with either
of
> > these sets of concepts, Python can be hard to explain.
>
> I think that the conceptual problem that people have with assignment
> being a binding operation is that they are used to names labeling some
> sort of memory mailbox.

If you take the word "memory" out of there, that does describe Python.
I think this is a false distinction. I can find only two issues with
names:

One is languages where the name itself has properties (static typed
languages are a great example of this, although Python is moving
toward this with the notion of properties in 2.2)

The other is where there are separate name spaces for certain things.
For example, methods in Java aren't first class objects, so Java can
have multiple methods with the same name, and keep them separate.
Python's name model can't - there can only be one object bound to
a name at a time (although again, properties seem to violate that rule).
>
> If you had not preconceived notion of what "names" mean then you might
> have fewer problems.
>
> Cheers,
> Brian
>
>




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Nov 12 00:44:40 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:44:40 -0500
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
 <aqokmr$lgb$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <IVJ09kKkXodA092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|"Pittaya" <a_human_work at hotmail.com> wrote in message
|> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
|> a single line of code.
|> perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
|> can python do something like this?

Sure:

  python -c "import urllib; print urllib.urlopen('http://gnosis.cx/fib.txt').read()"

*wink*

Yours, Lulu...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Nov 27 20:21:41 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:21:41 -0500
Subject: *args and **kwargs
References: <uLUE9.5581$kz4.355569@news2.west.cox.net> <87d6orq0oz.fsf@uiuc.edu> <_S7F9.14648$kz4.657484@news2.west.cox.net> <slrnauah8l.199.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <uua74vslp5f021@news.supernews.com> <slrnaual6k.20i.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <uuarslqlljf903@news.supernews.com>

"Wojtek Walczak" <gminick at hacker.pl> wrote in message
news:slrnaual6k.20i.gminick at hannibal.localdomain...
> Dnia Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:27:43 -0500, John Roth napisa?(a):
> > The fact that the function definition contains either * or ** has
> > nothing to do with how you call it.
> By saying this I thought about that, when you're using ** notation
> you need to call your function like this:
>
> function(a="b",b="c",c="d")

True. the ** parameter picks up unspecified keywords.

> In second of my examples, you can call a function by passing
> a dictionary to it as is:
>
> second({"a":"b", "b":"c", "c":"d"})

This example is a single positional parameter which happens
to be a dictionary.

John Roth
>
> See that visual difference? I was talking just about that.
>
> --
> [ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/
[ ]
> [ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje
najlepiej." ]




From goldbb2 at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 11 14:31:33 2002
From: goldbb2 at earthlink.net (Benjamin Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:31:33 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DCFF6FB.40426F8E@san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3DD00595.B2905D8E@earthlink.net>

Darren New wrote:
> 
> Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> > In all cases that I can think of, your dynamic code is essentially a
> > string which gets eval()ed (with a language-dependent eval).  The
> > solution is to make the eval() function/operator compile into a
> > sequence of operations along the lines of: Load the compiler for
> > this language, (if it's not already loaded), pass that string to the
> > compiler, run the generated bytecode.
> 
> Seems like an awful lot of overhead for every keystroke, window event,
> and async file operation.

Why would any of these require that strings be eval()ed?

You compile the string to bytecode, *once*, and pass this compiled code
as the callback for your keystrokes, window events, and async file
operations.  You wouldn't pass a string to be eval()ed -- that would be
silly.

Furthermore, even if one did do something that foolish, the compiler
needs to be loaded only once...  So, (ignoring the first one, where the
compiler gets loaded) each keystroke, window event, or async file
operation would merely compile the string to bytecode, then run the
bytecode.  This is no different from what Tcl does all the time, except
that it's a different kind of bytecode.

-- 
my $n = 2; print +(split //, 'e,4c3H r ktulrnsJ2tPaeh'
."\n1oa! er")[map $n = ($n * 24 + 30) % 31, (42) x 26]


From dnew at san.rr.com  Mon Nov 11 14:56:19 2002
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:56:19 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DCFF6FB.40426F8E@san.rr.com> <3DD00595.B2905D8E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DD00B63.EC604897@san.rr.com>

Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> Why would any of these require that strings be eval()ed?
> 
> You compile the string to bytecode, *once*, and pass this compiled code
> as the callback for your keystrokes, window events, and async file
> operations.  You wouldn't pass a string to be eval()ed -- that would be
> silly.

Bindings substitute their values. File events get additional arguments.
Etc.

> Furthermore, even if one did do something that foolish, the compiler
> needs to be loaded only once... 

I missed your parenthetical comment on first reading. Yes, sorry.


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 19 15:02:47 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 20:02:47 GMT
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <are5d7$eo3$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:18:16 GMT, "Josh" <jslmaslk at earthlink.net> wrote:

>Hi guys,
>
>I am a python newbie, and I am sure there is an easy answer but, Is there
>any equivalent to C's static variables in Python? If not, how can you have
>variables inside a function, that 'remember' their values between function
>calls?
>
There's more than one way to get the effect.
You can do it with a function or you can do it
with a class instance that acts like a function.

you would like the effect, say, of

def foo():
    # <magic one-time initialization of static x value>
    print x
    x = x + 1

We need to attach the value to something persistent. The function itself
is handy. You can just attach named values as attributes, and they'll be
"remembered":

 >>> def foo():
 ...     global foo
 ...     print foo.x
 ...     foo.x += 1
 ...
 >>> foo.x = 3
 >>> foo()
 3
 >>> foo()
 4
 >>> foo()
 5

But this depends on foo finding its own name in the global directory
You can avoid that by defining it inside another function that returns
it. It finds itself in the enclosing name space of the outer function,
and that environment is preserved in a closure attached to the returned
function, so it's not lost when the outer function returns:


 >>> def mkfoo():
 ...    def foo():
 ...       print foo.x
 ...       foo.x += 1
 ...    foo.x = 0
 ...    return foo
 ...
 >>> foo = mkfoo()
 >>> foo()
 0
 >>> foo.x
 1

You could pass something to mkfoo to initialize foo.x with
if you wanted to.

Also, you could use other ways to store the value. An attribute
is just easy to write.

To make a class instance that acts similarly, but uses self.x instead of foo.x,
you can do this:

 >>> class Foo:
 ...     def __init__(self, x=0): self.x = x
 ...     def __call__(self):
 ...         print self.x
 ...         self.x += 1
 ...
 >>> foo = Foo(3)
 >>> foo()
 3
 >>> foo()
 4
 >>> foo()
 5

mkfoo() and Foo() create independent foo's that have separate states,
but you could make them all operate on a single shared state also.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Nov 22 16:51:00 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:51:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
In-Reply-To: <20021122181124.K11257@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211221339060.23729-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, holger krekel wrote:

> Dave Brueck wrote:
> > > Opinions anyone?
> > 
> > Sure! Write two functions, and put them in your sitecustomize.py file. No 
> > PEPs to write, no patches to submit, no battles to win, and you get all 
> > the functionality you want _today_.
> 
> This reasoning is a bit broad and could be applied to many new ideas.
> Which doesn't mean it's wrong :-)

Yeah... since the OP was fishing for opinions I decided to give mine,
which is simply that there should be a really compelling reason to change
the language, doubly so when, as you pointed out, backwards compatibility
is affected. And since he's already calling a function (min/max) anyway,
it doesn't look like there's a ton to be gained by the change.

Just my 2 cents,
-Dave




From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Fri Nov 29 19:42:17 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 00:42:17 GMT
Subject: importing question ?
References: <mailman.1038495163.17624.python-list@python.org> <3DE7F96B.1030606@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3DE80A5B.2040309@nyc.rr.com>


Kenny Tilton wrote:
> 
>> 'from classes import *' brings all the toplevel objects in classes 
>> into your local namespace, so you can access them just through the 
>> name. Generally, though, I think this is considered bad practice, as 
>> it could create overlaps. 
> 
> 
> I just ran into this and I do not like it, because I have what I 
> consider one little subsystem (Cells) but I have it spread over ten 
> source files. 

I just saw the option to:

   from <package> import *

along with listing all modules in an __all__ definition in the __init__ 
file in the package directory. hope eternal. but it seems I then have to 
qualify any reference with the module name (which I think I grok--it is 
importing everything into the current namespace in go (nice) but then 
leaves them compartmented by module when it does so (not what I wanted, 
viz, a flat namespace for the package).



-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From lists at battleface.com  Tue Nov 12 16:35:18 2002
From: lists at battleface.com (Alexander Sendzimir)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:35:18 GMT
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com> <m2n0oeo5bq.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.12.20.44.22.748716@battleface.com>

John,

Thanks for your response. This is what I was afraid of. This seems really
sloppy. You don't think there is any better way of doing such a thing? In
the mean time, what you propose is exactly what I've been doing. Hmmmm.

Alex



On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:18:01 +0000, John Hunter wrote:
> 
> That's what I usually end up doing
> 
> for line in myfile:
>   m = r1.match(line)
>   if m:
>     do_something()
>     break
> 
>   m = r2.match(line)
>   if m:
>     do_something_else()
>     break
>   
> 
> John Hunter



From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 13 19:09:04 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:09:04 +1300
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD1AB92.3030409@something.invalid> <aqu0ji$rgg$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3DD2E9A0.8050500@something.invalid>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> Plus that version retains a reference to math, where I'd like to think that
> I would wind up with just a reference to a double with the 3.14.. value. I.e.,
>      def foo(pi = math.pi):
>          return pi


Yes, that's probably what I should have written.

> Also I think I would like a keyword that governs
> a block scope instead of just the scope of an assignment. E.g.,
> 
>     def foo():
>         predef:
>             import math
>             pi = math.pi
>             del math
>             seven = 7
>         return pi, seven


Too complicated. You could get the same effect by putting the
code outside the def:

    from math import math_pi

    def foo():
       const pi = math_pi
       const seven = 7
       ...

    del math_pi

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From Paul_Rudin at scientia.com  Mon Nov 11 10:18:52 2002
From: Paul_Rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 15:18:52 +0000
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037014155.15486.python-list@python.org> <uel9sryab.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037025979.11547.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u4raorv6r.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "hk" == holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:

 hk> Paul Rudin wrote:

 >> - potentially both y and z are evaluated; and

 hk> no.  more precisely, only

 hk>     if x is true and y is false is z also considered.

I said "potentially" - so we're agreeing - there are circumstances in
which both y and z have to be evaluated. Sometimes this might not
matter, others it could be very significant.


 >> - there's a degree of obfuscation here, the code is less
 >> comprehensible than something like: if x then y else z.

 hk> IMO it's not overly hard to get used to it. It certainly isn't as
 hk> evident (as has the aforementioned pitfall) as in some other
 hk> languages.  Funny enough, i don't need this ternary operation
 hk> often.

 hk> And if one the expressions is more complex i use a proper
 hk> if-clause.

I guess these things depend on what you're used to - I now program
mostly in lisp; I used to program mostly in c++; I'm very used to
using such a construct. Using an if-then-else type construct without a
return value makes some code rather inelegant, it seems to me. But no
doubt one can get used to it.

-- 
Were these parsnips CORRECTLY MARINATED in TACO SAUCE?


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Nov 26 08:28:08 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 08:28:08 -0500
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
In-Reply-To: <slrnau4sle.9as.grante@localhost.localdomain>
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au>
	<pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de>
	<arsni0$pnk$1@news.netpower.no>
	<slrnau4sle.9as.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <oqwun0sbo7.fsf@carouge.sram.qc.ca>

[Grant Edwards]

> In article <arsni0$pnk$1 at news.netpower.no>, David Brown wrote:

> >> I never liked filter, map and reduce.

> So don't use them. ;)

Some languages (think PL/I, some LISP implementations, and surely many
others) are full of constructs people do not use.  Each user has his/her
own preferred subset, and it often happens that a program written by
someone may not easily be read by someone else, without keeping the
language reference manual nearby.

I essentially learned Python with version 1.5.2, and it was still true
at the time that there was (about) only one way to do it, for most
"it".  This was a good guarantee towards legibility.  I'm now an happy
user of Python 2.2.1, in which there is now many ways to do many things.
I quite appreciate the novelties, they are often incredibly handsome.  Yet,
legibility (of others' programs) is getting impaired by the multiplicity.

To really maintain legibility in the long run, Python designers have to
consider they have to clean a bit behind.  Of course, "You do not like it,
so do not use it." conveys health and sanity.  But we have to stay aware
that this attitude might not be fully proper in the long run.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Tue Nov 19 13:20:49 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:20:49 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <44d4f61c.0211181708.465f5838@posting.google.com> <3DDA7385.2020609@nyc.rr.com> <eppstein-C621D0.09384719112002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3DDA81DE.7@nyc.rr.com>


David Eppstein wrote:
> In article <3DDA7385.2020609 at nyc.rr.com>,
>  Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>>There are two things which make me cringe.  1) When a Pythonista
>>>complains about allergies to strange delimiters, and 2) when a Lisper
>>>calls other languages too slow.
>>
>>The numbers I hear are that CL runs on average 20% slower than C.
> 
> 
> This is after how many decades of Lisp compiler development?
> 

Omigod! First of all, re situations C knows about, CL does just as well. 
Remember, the 20% slower is /on average/. I am sure you know that CL 
like Python is dynamic. Getting that stuff to run almost as fast as C 
suggests CL compiler technology is superb.


-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From treworn at cyberspace.org  Sat Nov  2 17:29:39 2002
From: treworn at cyberspace.org (trewornan)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 22:29:39 +0000
Subject: loggin out automatically
References: <1036253358.19897.0@doris.uk.clara.net> <3dc3fcf4$0$7369@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <3DC451D3.4060907@cyberspace.org>

> 
> Some combination of the above, I'd say.  Some people might suggest that you 
> were silly to not just /try/ your command in a python interpreter, e.g.--
> 

Good point but I don't have one running on linux and the installation of 
  linux on another computer is being considered but is dependent on the 
feasibility of some system to limit access on a timed basis.

Anyway thanks for letting me know why it won't work - I'll look more 
thoroughly at the linux documentation for possible answers.

M




From cmkleffner at gmx.de  Fri Nov 29 12:00:09 2002
From: cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 09:00:09 -0800
Subject: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
References: <3DE4448E.5080201@attglobal.net> <pan.2002.11.27.20.00.00.396116@NOSPAM.optushome.com.au> <f199e60.0211290156.729446bc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b091a1c.0211290900.61d974e3@posting.google.com>

stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl) wrote in message news:<f199e60.0211290156.729446bc at posting.google.com>...
> "David Mitchell" <djmitchell at NOSPAM.optushome.com.au> wrote in message news:<pan.2002.11.27.20.00.00.396116 at NOSPAM.optushome.com.au>...
> > On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:05:34 +0000, Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> > 
> > (snip)
> > > 
> > > What I'd like to be able to do is implement a complete GUI-based control 
> > > application (with buttons, slider, whatever widgets the app needs) 
> > > accessible over the web.
> > > 
> > > Is this possble with Python?  If so, where the best place to start looking?
> > 
> > I'm looking for exactly the same thing.  I know Perl has the
> > CGI::Widget::* modules which do pretty much exactly this, but I don't want
> > to use Perl for this particular project.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > Dave Mitchell
> 
> While researching the web about the same question, I found
> http://www.nextapp.com/products/echo/
> With that (ahem) Java Framework, it is possible (at least they claim)
> to write a web application just like a normal GUI application.
> On the Python side, at least Alex Martelli has thought about providing
> a HTML backend to anygui
> (http://anygui.sourceforge.net/platforms.php).
> If this ever worked it'd had the advantage to have one codebase for
> the webapp and a native GUI for the same app.
> If one is only looking into a way to separate HTML and programming
> logic, Cheetah (cheetahtemplate.org) can be used to write a kind of
> widget set.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Stephan

It seems to be rather difficult to get a standard answer to 
the question:

"how to develop highly responsive interactive web applications"

A lot of effort is going to webify applications with Java Struts 
and similar techniques. You can create highly dynamic but still 
page based web apps. The more interactive the application is -  
a lot of ui updates necessary within user interaction - the more
network traffic and page rendering by the browser has to be done.

You can use Java applets but many people dont like it because
of its akward AWT based user interface.

Of course there are similar python techniques to the latter.

Some other web based client server projects I am aware of:

XWT is an interesting project (www.xwt.org). It is browser 
and OS independant. It only needs a Java or ActiveX enabled
browser on the client side and supports a self installing
thin client component (ActiveX component or Java jar file).
The ultimate solution for the software deployment problem?
Not python enabled so far, but they discussed the usage
of Jython rather than Rhino as scripting framework inside
the Java based client component.

Picogui (www.picogui.org) is another one with a rather fat
client software to display (potentially python based) 
applications over the web.

And there is curl and .....

I am interested in a discussion of usuable and reliable 
frameworks for this problem (beside Struts and Java applets)

Carl


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Nov  3 12:49:10 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:49:10 GMT
Subject: get data from a Toplevel when closing it
References: <3DC51D8A.90808@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <qkdx9.2910$1r1.90159@newsc.telia.net>

"polux" <polux2001 at wanadoo.fr> wrote

> I made a class derivated from the Tkinter's Toplevel class like this :
>
> Myclass(Toplevel):
>
> def __init__(self,master,**arg)
>
> Toplevel.__init__(master,arg)
> self.master = master
>
>
> Now, I want to get data from this Toplevel (eg data from entries
> widgets) when I'm closing it.

The easiest way is to install a WM_DELETE_WINDOW handler; see the
"Protocols" section on the following page for more info and examples:

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/events-and-bindings.htm

</F>




From txo at cs.nott.ac.uk  Mon Nov 18 10:38:57 2002
From: txo at cs.nott.ac.uk (Turhan Ozen)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:38:57 +0000
Subject: Installing dislin (scientific data plotting software)
References: <3DD12A29.8B34ED2C@cs.nott.ac.uk> <3OednWogkaIkOUygXTWcog@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3DD90991.28DD1488@cs.nott.ac.uk>

from S. Gonzi:

To your DISLIN problem. I had used DISLIN on Windows XP for a few month,
but switched eventually to Linux because Windows is more or less a pain.
Whenever I had encountered problems I have contacted the author of
DISLIN. He was very responsive.

I suggest you to contact Michels directly and post the solution again
back to comp.lang.python just in case others are faced by a similar
problem.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

from Helmut Michels (Dislin's author):

I  have tested IDLE of Python 2.2 with multiple DISLIN windows. It seems
to be ok. The multiple windows were created with the DISLIN routine
opnwin. I will check the ActivePython IDE in the near future, but I
think it is not compatible with DISLIN. I will let you know my results.

DISLIN will be free for Python users in the future too. Changes in
DISLIN will be compatible with the current DISLIN versions.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov  9 02:00:26 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 08:00:26 +0100
Subject: pickle-ing two instances of the same class on MSW
References: <ce0b6758.0211081629.53d46538@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3bs4zmdmd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

nw_moriarty at yahoo.com (Nigel Moriarty) writes:

> I have a list of two instances of the same class in a list which I can 
> pickle on LINUX but it fails on MSW with this error.
> 
> cPickle.PicklingError: Can't pickle two.Task: its not the same object as two.Task
> 
> which is stating the obvious.

No. It does not talk about the instances, it complains that the
instance claims to be a an instance of two.Task, however two.Task is
not the class of the instance. That may have happened when two was
reloaded, or when Task is a class nested within some class in two.

HTH,
Martin



From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Fri Nov  8 10:18:53 2002
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 07:18:53 -0800
Subject: Virtual Filesystem (Was: Adding ftputil to the Python distribution?)
References: <aq6kpl$td1$1@news.online.de> <mailman.1036573573.23006.python-list@python.org> <f199e60.0211070207.5ed58c25@posting.google.com> <slrnasle8i.v6v.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>
Message-ID: <f199e60.0211080718.a135a76@posting.google.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
>>>...
>>>
>>>http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/skunkweb/skunkweb/pylibs/vfs/
>>>
>>>Features:
>>>
>>>1. implementations for local fs, ftp, zip/tar/tgz archives, and a
>>>>...
>>
>>Thanks, that's excactly what I was thinking of/looking for. And it
>>shows to me that there is nearly nothing that has not been written
in
>>one form or another. I'd really like to see a vfs in the standard
>>python distribution.
> 
> I too. But I believe any given implementation will implicitly reflect
> conventions with respect to operations in abstract name space, and I think
> that ought to be laid out in a PEP before adopting any particular implementation.

Sure, I agree. I was mainly thinking in terms of a protocol like the
DB API for SQL Server.

> 
> Otherwise there is likely to be special limitations, e.g., not being able
> to delegate parsing of path tails to other vfs's mounted within the first, etc.
> Also a virtual name space brings with it opportunity for orderly conventions
> of use as opposed to ad hoc quilts of usage. A PEP can at least draw attention
> to LSB/FHS type issues.
> 
> 
>>Maybe, one day, we'll have a central register for python libraries.
It
>>seems to me that to many people (including me) are reinventing the
>>wheel all the time because they just can't find the right library
for
>>the task at hand and just don't know project xyz that already solved
>>the problem (and doesn't show up when googling)
>>
> 
> As a habitual wheel re-inventor, I'll second the thought ;-)
> 
> OTOH, I think re-inventing has positive aspects sometimes. A certain
> amount of reinventing is necessary for natural selection to have something
> to select from in the evolutionary improvement of things. OTOH2, for
> well-explored problems, it's an indulgence to reinvent something if you can find
> and use something already implemented. (Of course, it _is_ satifying to find
> that you have re-invented, even approximately, an algorithm that some real guru
> has previously invented, and feel that you walked in the same ancient hallowed land,
> even as you realize that you could have spent your time better for practical purposes).

Rereading my original statement I realize that my point was indeed too
narrow.
It is satisfying to reinvent something if it is coupled with a deeper
understanding about the subject. Actually, sometimes it is not
possible to understand something if one has not spend hours thinking
about it (and implementing it).
But then, there are the problems where it is perfectly clear what must
be done and programming is just a tendious task.

> 
> The vfs above is very close to what I was talking about recently. But not
> exactly, and not quite from the same POV. And any discussion of general
> or genericized (v)file access will garner reminders that lisp has a lot
> of prior art ;-)
> 
> My main thought before was that a virtual name space can be platform
> independent (or at least contain such a subspace), and that could serve
> the purpose of platform independence for Python.

So, finally, Python will be the OS :-)
Why not, actually? The discussions about "What's the best OS in the
world" are just tiring and Python has shown that it is possible to
abstract a lot from the underlying OS.

> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

Stephan


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Nov 12 08:51:11 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:51:11 +0100
Subject: Newbie response, was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <20021111084619.3410.38803.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1037073499.730.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqr28i$4ok$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:55:27 -0800, Terry Hancock
<hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

<snip some great insights into newbie psychology>

>Professional programmers who are in it for the money, will benefit by making 
>their language of choice seem difficult. This causes a barrier to entry, 
>creates scarcity, and drives the salaries for those who are *in* up.  You see 
>this behavior frequently in the languages of choice for proprietary software 
>development (and it's been around in many trades, long before software was 
>invented).

There's a lot of truth in this, as in the other part's of your -
greatly appreciated - post, but I would like to add that it's often
not possible for language designers to design a language that is not
*considered* difficult and that is also not difficult in a more
objective sense. We are living in a world where drinking brown colored
and fizzling water with added sugar and artifical taste producing
chemicals out of an aluminium (!) can is considered to be more natural
than just drinking water.

Regards,
		Anton.


From usenet at jasoegaard.dk  Sun Nov 10 08:23:15 2002
From: usenet at jasoegaard.dk (=?windows-1252?Q?Jens_Axel_S=F8gaard?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:23:15 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <ff133276.0211091535.47871cf2@posting.google.com> <aqkdoq$db6$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk>

Pascal Costanza wrote:
> Rocco Moretti wrote:
>> "Johannes Gr?dem <johs+n at ifi.uio.no> wrote in message 
>> news:<lzznsipz4s.fsf at unity.copyleft.no>...
>>
>>> Because Lisp has a powerful macro system, it is actually possible to
>>> have an infix-macro, which lets you use infix-syntax.  And you can
>>> write macros to support all sorts of weird syntax, if you want.
>>
>>
>> I've heard this argument a number of times, and have never really
>> bought it. To me it seems equivalent to saying "Because (Brainf*ck/
>> Intercal/ Unlambda/ Malbourge /etc) are Turing Complete, you can write
>> any program in them." Sure, you *can*, but why bother?
> 
> 
> ...because macros in Common Lisp allow you to do extremely powerful 
> things and write very compact code.

[A very nice example]

A frequently asked question for new comers to Python is "Why did
you leave out my favorite loop construction?". I mean, there are always 
someone that likes do-while better than repeat-until and vice versa.

In a language with macros such as CommonLisp or Scheme one can use 
macros to make new control structures. One example is the "missing" 
loop. The point is that the programmer can add to the power of the 
language without asking Guido first.

Another example is pattern matching. Scheme is born without, but using a 
library written using macros one can use pattern matching the SML-way.

To some extent this objection the objection "There are no macros" has 
the same cause as the the reaction to the displine-and-bondage language 
Pascal. Is it the language designer or the programmer that has the final 
word?

Is new control structures useful? To a newcomer to the world of macros 
the answer seems to be no. But once you have gotten uses to the idea, 
one an amazing amount of uses. Pascal Constanzas example showed one use.



From anonymous at nodomain.none  Fri Nov 29 13:38:11 2002
From: anonymous at nodomain.none (Tetsuo)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:38:11 GMT
Subject: mod_python
References: <Xns92D510D3250B7bokuwatetsuo@207.217.77.26> <3de714c6$1@news.mt.net.mk>
Message-ID: <Xns92D58A7B25737bokuwatetsuo@207.217.77.26>

?????? ?. <???????????@????.???.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?=> wrote in
news:3de714c6$1 at news.mt.net.mk: 

> 
>> I figured out how to get mod_python to work, at last, but I ran into
>> a problem that seems to be fairly common (the solution is harder to
>> find, though). Any code inserted into mptest.py works great. But when
>> I make another file in the same directory, the last thing that was in
>> mptest goes into that file, even if mptest doesn't exist any more.
>> Must be browser cache or something... Well, I have no idea, since
>> it's a different file. Does Apache have a cache, too? I have heard
>> that some mistake in the configuration can make Apache keep referring
>> to mptest. But I can't find how to fix it...
> 
> Thats the way mod_python works. read the documentation :)
> 
> You have registered mptest.py to be a handler for all requests 
> ending in ".py".
> 
> 
> 

Here's what I can gather: if I want to have another script, I have to put 
it in a new directory and create a directive in the conf for that new 
file.

That sounds so complex, clumsy and dumb that it's probably not the way. 
How do I make every script handle itself? I tried the publisher handler, 
and it proved useless.

I thought about importing everything to one script from others, but that 
isn't what I need at all. That's just pointless.

And how do I make it so typing in a directory gives me a page (index.htm) 
instead of a list of the files in the directory? (Goes to take another 
look at the publisher)


From greg2567 at yahoo.com.au  Sun Nov  3 22:15:18 2002
From: greg2567 at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Greg=20Aumann?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:15:18 +1100 (EST)
Subject: file iterators and codecs, a bug?
Message-ID: <20021104031518.15902.qmail@web14612.mail.yahoo.com>

Recently I figured out how to use iterators and
generators. Quite easy to use and a great improvement.


But when I refactored some of my code I came across a
discrepancy that seems like it must be a bug. If you
use the old file 

reading idiom with a codec the lines are converted to
unicode but if you use the new iterators idiom then
they retain the 

original encoding and are returned in non unicode
strings. Surely using the new "for line in file:"
idiom should give the same 

result as the old, "while 1: ...."

I came across this when using the pythonzh Chinese
codecs but the below code uses the cp1252 encoding to
illustrate the 

problem because everyone should have those codecs. The
symptoms are the same with both codecs. 

I am using python 2.2.2 on win2k. 

Is this definitely a bug, or is it an undocumented
'feature' of the codecs module?

Greg Aumann

The following code illustrates the problem:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"""Check readline iterator using a codec."""

import codecs

fname = 'tmp.txt'
f = file(fname, 'w')
for i in range(0x82, 0x8c):
    f.write( '%x, %s\n' % (i, chr(i)))
f.close()

def test_iter():
    print '\ntesting codec iterator.'
    f = codecs.open(fname, 'r', 'cp1252')
    for line in f:
        l = line.rstrip()
        print repr(l)
        print repr(l.decode('cp1252'))
    f.close()

def test_readline():
    print '\ntesting codec readline.'
    f = codecs.open(fname, 'r', 'cp1252')
    while 1:
        line = f.readline()
        if not line:
            break
        l = line.rstrip()
        print repr(l)
        try:
            print repr(l.decode('cp1252'))
        except AttributeError, msg:
            print 'AttributeError', msg
    f.close()

test_iter()
test_readline()
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This code gives the following output:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
testing codec iterator.
'82, \x82'
u'82, \u201a'
'83, \x83'
u'83, \u0192'
'84, \x84'
u'84, \u201e'
'85, \x85'
u'85, \u2026'
'86, \x86'
u'86, \u2020'
'87, \x87'
u'87, \u2021'
'88, \x88'
u'88, \u02c6'
'89, \x89'
u'89, \u2030'
'8a, \x8a'
u'8a, \u0160'
'8b, \x8b'
u'8b, \u2039'

testing codec readline.
u'82, \u201a'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute
'decode'
u'83, \u0192'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute
'decode'
u'84, \u201e'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute
'decode'
u'85, \u2026'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute
'decode'
u'86, \u2020'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute
'decode'
u'87, \u2021'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute
'decode'
u'88, \u02c6'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute
'decode'
u'89, \u2030'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute
'decode'
u'8a, \u0160'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute
'decode'
u'8b, \u2039'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute
'decode'
------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers
- 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you!



From nelsonis at earthlink.net  Thu Nov 28 10:48:15 2002
From: nelsonis at earthlink.net (Ian S. Nelson)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:48:15 -0700
Subject: Python JAR files?
Message-ID: <vrd5sa-bff.ln@mail.isnelson.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Has anyone built something like JAR files for python yet?  Any plans to?

As a packaging medium and for installing stuff on to machines it would
be nice to have a python app that resides within one file.  tar.gz or
.zip or something also compress quite nicely.

thanks,
Ian Nelson

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE95jq6V28blwDT2YMRAgKhAJ44YrDyXj139zEDfK+sPq/cdq2npQCdHYvs
0aNK+kwVJ9zhLgdxpsQF8KY=
=imEq
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From teaandbikkie at aol.com  Thu Nov 14 19:22:33 2002
From: teaandbikkie at aol.com (TeaAndBikkie)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 00:22:33 GMT
Subject: windows api message
References: <mailman.1037145317.2202.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20021114192233.02463.00000060@mb-fv.aol.com>

>From: Chris Johnson chris.johnson at netiq.com 
>
>I am interested in building a tool for automating gui testing.

I have already started one of these for Python. Its early days yet, but can
drive notepad's windows, menus & buttons and grab text off it. If you are
interested, I'll start a sourceforge project and you can help me with it.
I have heaps of ideas for it, including (eventually) a parser for interpreting
or translating WinRunner scripts, hooks for the popular keyword-driven test
frameworks, and some functional-mapping framework stuff of my own. Perhaps you
can help with emulating some useful Segue functions.

>So I have heard some people say its gonna be based on win32 api messaging.

Yes this is a large component. The win32all module is useful for some
functions, and calldll / npstruct / ctypes (someone convince me to use ctypes?)
for the missing functions and c-structures.

>Chris Johnson

Kind regards, Misha



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Wed Nov  6 16:24:21 2002
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:24:21 -0600
Subject: I "think" global is broken
Message-ID: <06qdnevbopUGFFSgXTWc3Q@comcast.com>

The following code works as expected.

class test:
    global _trace
    def __init__(self):
        if _trace: print "entering test.__init__"
        return

global _trace
_trace=1
x=test()


Now if I move the class into a separate module called test.py
and change the main program it no longer works

from test import *
global _trace, _debug
_trace=1
x=test()

I get undefined global error

I just don't believe that this is the way it should work.
I understand that in this simple example I could
do an import test and (according to other posts
I've read it should work).  But in a real world
example the external module has 8 classes in it
(and growing).  It just doesn't seem right that I
would need to split it into 8 different modules.

Am I missing something?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Regards,
Larry Bates
lbates at swamisoft.com





From b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u  Sat Nov 23 19:19:53 2002
From: b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u (Ben C)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:19:53 +1100
Subject: Inheritance And Instantiation Of Instance Variables
Message-ID: <3de00ca8@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

Hi there,

I just wanted to clarify something ...

if I create a class such as

class Blah:

    def __init__(self, parameterA, parameterB)
        self.parameterA = parameterA
        self.parameterB = parameterB

 and then I inherit from that class is it really necessary to initialise the
argumnets to the inherited class twice ? ie.

class NewBlah(Blah):

    def __init__(self, parameterA, parameterB)
        Blah.__init__(self, parameterA, parameterB)






From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Wed Nov  6 15:38:25 2002
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:38:25 +0100
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <3dc3dc4e$0$12762$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <aq1235$h36$1@reader1.tiscali.nl> <vR1y9.45$8%5.8453@news.optus.net.au>
Message-ID: <aqbuoc$rrp$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

"Derek Thomson" <derek at wedgetail.com> schreef in bericht
news:vR1y9.45$8%5.8453 at news.optus.net.au...
> GerritM wrote:
> > "Derek Thomson" <derek at wedgetail.com> schreef in bericht
> > news:3dc3dc4e$0$12762$afc38c87 at news.optusnet.com.au...
<...snip...>
> > Do you by any means have the data at hand (kloc's for Java, kloc's for
> > comparable Python; ORB and/or IDL compiler)? I am highly interested in
any
> > substantiated evidence with respect to language
efficiency/expressiveness.
>
> Nope, I was just replying based on my feelings for an average task,
> which was the tone of the OP. Think about how difficult it is to do the
> equivalent of a list slice assigment in Java, for example.
>
> For some harder numbers, I compared JacORB (a Java ORB) to Fnorb (a
> Python ORB), and Fnorb is about one half the lines of code of JacORB,
> just for the core ORB itself.
>
> Now, that's for an ORB, which is low level enough (marshalling and
> unmarshalling data on-the-wire, and connection management), that it
> doesn't play too well to Python's expressiveness. But still, that's
> quite a difference.
>
> As the application becomes higher level, I'd expect the gains to be much
> greater.
>
> --
> D.
>
I share the same expectation. It would be nice to have some more factual
comparison of larger application(s). The shootout site
http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/ does a great job in comparing "small"
well defined problems. In general Python scores well in expressiveness
(=small amount of loc), but not as much as factors 2 or higher.

It would be interesting to know if our expectations are realistic for large
applications, or only hopes. I have seen many oversold technologies, which
don't pass a more factual comparison.

regards Gerrit





From kevin at cazabon.com  Fri Nov  8 22:36:49 2002
From: kevin at cazabon.com (Kevin@Cazabon.com)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:36:49 GMT
Subject: TclError: bad option "<whatever>": must be cget or configure
Message-ID: <lp%y9.15549$O71.6983@rwcrnsc53>

I'm having some weird Tcl errors, and can't seem to track them down, any
help?

1)  these are happening in multiple locations, when I use the "configure"
method for widgets

2)  the calls work 99.9% of the time, but when the system is under heavy
load they fail with "TclError: bad option "yellow": must be cget or
configure" errors

3)  I'm using a valid "configure" command (such as
self.label.configure(text="yellow")), and it seems to think I called
"self.frame.yellow()" or self.frame.configure(yellow = xxx).


My application is multi-threaded (3 threads total, all using locks/mutexes
on shared objects, only one thread is doing Tcl stuff), and I'm using
ActivePython 2.2.1 build 222.

Thanks!

Kevin.





From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 15 20:32:39 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:32:39 -0800
Subject: help plz ive been to atleast 10 different faqs and guides
In-Reply-To: <004801c28d0b$cdc93ef0$aed7bd18@mouseoh7s2nyon>
References: <004801c28d0b$cdc93ef0$aed7bd18@mouseoh7s2nyon>
Message-ID: <200211160132.RAA18768@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Friday 15 November 2002 17:02, cmvb wrote:
> um yes id like to make a program so when you ask a question it responds
> with a preset set of random responses is this possible?

You mean like a Magic 8-Ball (tm)?


import random

# World's stupidest magic 8-ball simulator
def answer_question( question ):
    # Responses are probably copyright of Mattel
    responses = [ "Ask Again Later",
                  "Better Not Tell You Now",
                  "Concentrate and Ask Again",
                  "Don't Count on It",
                  "It Is Certain",
                  "Most Likely",
                  "My Reply is No",
                  "My Sources Say No",
                  "No",
                  "Outlook Good",
                  "Outlook Not So Good",
                  "Reply Hazy, Try Again",
                  "Signs Point to Yes",
                  "Yes",
                  "Yes, Definitely",
                  "You May Rely On It" ]

    i = int( random.randrange( len( responses ) ) )
    return responses[ i ]

def get_question():
    return raw_input( "What is your question?: " )

if __name__ == '__main__':
    print "Please ask 'Yes/No' questions..."
    while 1:
        print answer_question( get_question() )
        print


-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 11 17:48:51 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:48:51 -0700
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <bdb5b58f.0211111438.640885d2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqpc4j$cl5$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

logistix wrote:

> a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya) wrote in message
> news:<fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8 at posting.google.com>...
>> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
>> a single line of code.
>> 
>> perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
>> 
>> can python do something like this?
> 
> Guys, c'mon.  How are you supposed to lock up your computer when you
> only print the first 10 numbers?
> 
> python  -c "a,b=1,1;exec('while 1:\n\tglobal a,b\n\tprint
> a\n\ta,b=b,a+b\n\n')"

The globals aren't needed, exec() defaults to your current namespace:

python -c "a,b=1,1;exec('while 1:\n\tprint a\n\ta,b=b,a+b\n')"

Just how annoying this is to even read should make the point of the sillyness 
of one-liner battles :)

Cheers,

f


From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Thu Nov 14 14:57:12 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:57:12 -0600
Subject: Variable names on the fly?
References: <3dd3f5fd$0$28311$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <r9u7tu8csfau7sjrpkbg85ttsjrphsec7t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7eTA9.55$P4.8534@news.uchicago.edu>

"Gon?alo Rodrigues" <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote in message
news:r9u7tu8csfau7sjrpkbg85ttsjrphsec7t at 4ax.com...
> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:13:22 -0000, "e-tones.co.uk"
> <admin at e-tones.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Hi all, does python allow the creation of variable names on the fly, more
> >importantly lists.
> >
> >I have a stock list containing 5 elements, [0,0,0,0,0]
> >
> >Lets call it: list
>
> Don't - in your code that is. It will shadow the name of the list
> builtin and a sure way to make a mess out of your program.
>
> >
> >Now, via a loop, can I create list1, list2, list3 on the fly by
replicting
> >the original list, eg
> >
> >i = 1
> >for i in range(2)
> >    list+i = list
> >
> >Whats the proper format to concatenate (sp?) variable names. I used
list+i,
> >obviously this doesnt work, but what does :)
>
> As far as I know you cannot do this - but why would you? Why would you
> need such a weird thing? Just use a mapping dictionary
>
> <whatever name you what or more generally a hashable> -> value
>
> For example: calling our dictionary dct (not dict!) and your list lst
>
> for i in range(2):
>     dct['list' + str(i)] = lst

you could also do something like this (not that you should)

for i in range(2):
    exec('list' + str(i) + ' = lst')




From rkempf at rightnow.com  Tue Nov 19 13:04:28 2002
From: rkempf at rightnow.com (Kempf, Reed)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:04:28 -0700
Subject: very large inserts
Message-ID: <D408B6AC060DB24790622E1A54204DB00A3CB29D@xchange.rightnowtech.com>

Hello,

My name is Reed and I am new to the list as of today.  I have been working
with python for about 6 months and I have an issue where I am stumped.

My background is in python, pl/sql and oracle database management with a
touch of mysql database management.

Anyway, I know in mysql you can do a bulk insert or an insert where you can
insert many records with one insert statement like this:

MYSQL - insert into table (col1, col2, col3, col4)
        values (1,2,3,4),(2,3,4,5),(3,4,5,6),(4,5,6,7);

In oracle, you would have to do 1 insert at a time unless you are using
pl/sql in which you can do a bulk insert (as far as I know).

ORACLE - insert into table (col1, col2, col3, col4)
         values (1,2,3,4);
         insert into table (col1, col2, col3, col4)
         values (2,3,4,5); and so forth.......

My question is, can python simulate a mysql bulk insert in python?

I am running a linux distribution 6.2 with kernel 2.4.17 and oracle 8.1.7.4
patch set.  I am also using python 2.1.  Currently in my python script I
loop through a python dictionary and build an insert statement which I then
pass through a connection to update oracle and move onto the next python
dictionary key.  

This works but I would sincerely like to build one very large insert
statement and pass it to the oracle connection all at once.  This is an
issue for me since I am going through sqlnet and across a VPN to update the
oracle database.  The less cursors I pass through the connection, the
better.

Thanks in advance,

ReedK




From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Nov 15 03:28:03 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:28:03 -0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <mailman.1037232380.29621.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns92C7562E8169Bdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.) wrote in 
news:mailman.1037232380.29621.python-list at python.org:
> DaveP has written a bunch of things insulting other posters. 

If that was the received message I apologise. Not intended.
I've praised what I previously perceived to be Fred's material in
the past and consider it an excellent suite of documentation.
I still stand by that, otherwise I wouldn't have posted at all.


 And a
> bunch more observing (correctly enough) that with a whole lot of work,
> the documentation toolchain could eventually get back to the state its
> in now.
> 
> But for the life of me, I cannot figure out what good, however slight,
> would come of such a conversion.
> 
> Of course, I write a few columns on XML, so I guess I'm prejudiced. :-)

If that had been 'in XML' instead of 'on XML' I'd have asked why you
can't figure it out. Martin mentioned fashion, it is fashionable. Its
also flexible and has a full toolsuite. It simply appeared as a natural
for a job such as the python docsuite. 

If my comments are being taken as insulting I really will shut up.

regards DaveP


From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 28 05:42:29 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:42:29 GMT
Subject: With what module can Python handel *.tar.gz file?
References: <mailman.1037962779.25641.python-list@python.org> <slrnauaibb.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <slrnauau8l.jv.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <7h3adjuou7n.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at gmx.de> writes:

> This way, I can continue refusing to learn eLISP and Emacs and
> switching to GNUS;-)

Gnus by default does no more with HTML than slrn.  You can make it
fire up w3-mode or w3m-mode, I think but, given that you can make Gnus
do anything at all, this is probably not news.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Those who have deviant punctuation desires should take care of their
  own perverted needs.                  -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp


From cliechti at gmx.net  Fri Nov  1 18:26:29 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 01:26:29 +0200
Subject: how to stop a running python command in pywin ide
References: <7xEw9.9$%f4.153@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92BAED391224cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"tagarwal" <trilok.agarwal at oracle.com> wrote in 
news:7xEw9.9$%f4.153 at news.oracle.com:

> 
> 
> 

you should actualy repeat you question in the message body or at leat write 
one word...

you can stop a running programm by clicking on the icon in the taskbar 
(near the clock) and select the appropriate point in the popup menu.

chris
-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Nov 15 20:32:21 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 20:32:21 -0500
Subject: help plz ive been to atleast 10 different faqs and guides
In-Reply-To: <004801c28d0b$cdc93ef0$aed7bd18@mouseoh7s2nyon>
References: <004801c28d0b$cdc93ef0$aed7bd18@mouseoh7s2nyon>
Message-ID: <oqlm3u9u56.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[cmvb]

> um yes id like to make a program so when you ask a question it responds
> with a preset set of random responses is this possible?

`cmvb' not Cc:ed, of course.

Some probably read and think, a bit like they write. :-)  Sigh! :-(

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Fri Nov 29 02:21:12 2002
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:21:12 +0100
Subject: Newbie Question, list = list + x VS append (x)
In-Reply-To: <mh4euu095fqqm9bmcgrpdrcvb5emgpkhlm@4ax.com>
References: <mh4euu095fqqm9bmcgrpdrcvb5emgpkhlm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1283675.1038558072@[0.0.0.3]>

Because "+" acts like appending every item of the right hand list
to the left hand list.

-aj

--On Freitag, 29. November 2002 07:14 +0000 Chuck <cdreward at riaa.com> wrote:

> Just a quick question from a Python newbie (I've only been reading the
> tutorial for about 10 minutes <g> )
>
> Could someone explain why these two bits of code act differently?
>
>
> def add2(n):
>     return [n+2]
>
> x = y = [1,2]
>
> print x # [1,2] - Ok
>
> x = x + add2(5)
>
> print x # [1,2,7] - why not [1,2,[7]]? add2 returns answer inside "[ ]"
>
>
># ...vs...
>
>
> print y # [1,2] - Ok
>
> y.append( add2(5) )
>
> print y # [1,2,[7]] - Ok; What I expected it to do
>
>
> I'm not clear what's going on when I do "list = list + function that
> returns list", i.e. why it's taking the 7 out of a list, where .append
> keeps it in...
>
> Thanks!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   -    Andreas Jung                     http://www.andreas-jung.com   -
  -   EMail: andreas at andreas-jung.com                              -
   -            "Life is too short to (re)write parsers"               -
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------




From nas at python.ca  Wed Nov 13 08:52:13 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 05:52:13 -0800
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
In-Reply-To: <20021112164933.A29726@ibook.distro.conectiva>
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <20021112164933.A29726@ibook.distro.conectiva>
Message-ID: <20021113135213.GA27219@glacier.arctrix.com>

Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:
> > This note is mostly for entertainment purposes.
> > 
> > >>> x = (1, 2, 3)
> [...]
> > >>> x += (4, 5, 6)
> 
> Hey, shouldn't this raise an exception?

Should:

    x = 1
    x += 1

raise an exception?

  Neil



From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Thu Nov 21 16:06:29 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:06:29 +1100
Subject: SHA-2 state of the art?
In-Reply-To: <3DDCE92C.70803@tismer.com>
References: <3DDCE92C.70803@tismer.com>
Message-ID: <200211220806.29617.rjones@ekit-inc.com>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 1:09 am, Christian Tismer wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> I am looking for implementations of SHA-256
> and SHA-512, and I found CryptKit so far.
> http://eevolved.com/cryptkit/
> Does anybody know of alternative activities?

shax-py from http://philosophysw.com/software/

via

http://www.amk.ca/cgi-bin/pypi.cgi?:action=display&name=shax-py&version=0.9

:)


    Richard




From wilk-spamout at flibuste.net  Fri Nov 29 04:19:45 2002
From: wilk-spamout at flibuste.net (William)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 10:19:45 +0100
Subject: Services in Python
References: <mailman.1038527560.11696.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87ptso91hq.fsf@flibuste.net>

"Ricardo M. Reyes" <reyesricardo at myrealbox.com> writes:

> Hi:
> 
> I'm considering using Python to write a little smtp server, to do some
> automated processing of emails in my office, and I need to know if
> it's possible to make a server in Python that runs permanently under NT
> server, even when there's no user logged in, like if it was a service.
> I don't mind if it's not exactly an NT service, I just need that
> particular characteristic.
> 
> Do you think it's possible? If it is, then I'll get greedy and ask for
> something else: when there IS a user logged in, I'd like the program
> to be invisible, with no icon in the task bar. Again, you think this
> is possible?

there is an example of service in py2exe. (i've never tried)
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net


From whisper at oz.net  Tue Nov 12 03:19:06 2002
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:19:06 -0800
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
In-Reply-To: <kl9qqa.n25.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEKEOLFPAA.whisper@oz.net>

<snip>
>         I never use the "remove" link/option -- if it's spam, it
> goes to a
> filter, said filter sends a complaint message to
> postmaster@<from/reply-to/errors-to/received hosts>
>

Which probably marks you just as "live" as opting out. dev/null is the place
to send trash ;)

Dave LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA




From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Tue Nov 26 22:00:23 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:00:23 +1300
Subject: int() shortcoming?
References: <y8h3cptpttf.fsf@spinetta.mcs.anl.gov> <3DDE4274.3070902@Linux.ie>
Message-ID: <3DE43547.6030009@something.invalid>

Padraig Brady wrote:

> However this is not backwards compatible.
> I.E. int('017') would give a different answer.


Which is an excellent reason for *not* doing this!

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From pu at myRealBox.com  Mon Nov  4 15:12:55 2002
From: pu at myRealBox.com (pu)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:12:55 +0100
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on AIX 4.3.3 / AIX 5.1
References: <3dc40e9c_2@news.vo.lu> <aq5j8o$t7i$1@innferno.news.tiscali.de> <aq5jfi$t9a$1@innferno.news.tiscali.de>
Message-ID: <3dc6d402_1@news.vo.lu>

anything special to do, or just the usual "dance" ?
I've never done it before, but hope to do so ASAP with a local UNIX system
engineer.

"Gernot Krause" <gkrause at psipenta.com> wrote in message
news:aq5jfi$t9a$1 at innferno.news.tiscali.de...
> oops -> right is python 2.2.2 and not 2.2.1b !
>
>
>
>




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 22 05:51:20 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:51:20 GMT
Subject: Inheritance and delegation problem.
References: <mailman.1037915850.8783.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <I_nD9.40251$744.1439695@news1.tin.it>

Quinet, Joel wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I have an object using delegation to another one by replacing __getattr__
> and __setattr__.  It works fine.  now, I have to do it a thread, I have
> added the threading inheritance.
> My problem is the threading.__init__ methode is NOT call apparently due to
> __getattr__ and __setattr__ redefinition.

I think threading.Thread.__init__ IS likely being executed, judging from 
your code below; however, instead of setting attributes on the self object, 
it's going to set them on the classwide __instanceMarketsConfigParser 
thingy, because that's where __setattr__ is shunting the destination of
every assignment of the form self.whatever = anyvalue -- remember that
__setattr__ works for code that's running in methods of the object or
its bases, just as well as it works for outside code.  Same applies to the 
assignments in your own __init__ to self.sortie and self.cond, of course,
and to other attributes of self you're apparently binding in other methods.

The solution might be to find out what attributes DO need to be set on self
rather than on the class-wide thingy, and specialcase them with a simple
if at the start of __setattr__ -- starting with putting a print in the same
__setattr__ may help you get ahold of all the attribute names that do
need to be specialcased that way.


Alex



From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Mon Nov 11 14:39:04 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:39:04 GMT
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> </f9z9ks/KbEa089yn@the-wire.com> <hRA09ks/K3oP089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <3dd00718.21140890@news.t-online.de>

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:26:25 -0500, mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
wrote:

>Well, one-liners clearly are not your forte.
>
>>print reduce (lambda x,y: (x[1],x[0]+x[1], x[2]+[x[1]]), xrange(10), (0,1,[]))[2]
>
>Pretty lame compared to
>
>print reduce (lambda x,y: x + [x[-1]+x[-2]], xrange(10), [1, 1] )
>
>right?

Pretty lame compared to

fibonacci = lambda x:map(lambda o:(map(lambda c:map(lambda
l:o.__setslice__(l[0],l[1],l[2]),([o[2]+3,o[2]+4,[o[0]]],[0,3,[o[1],reduce(lambda
x,o:x+o,o[:2]),o[2]+1]])),range(x)),o)[1],[[1,1,0]+range(x)])[0][3:]

(that should be in one line) which you can use like this:

>>> print fibonacci(10)
[1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55]


From duncan at rcp.co.uk  Tue Nov 26 05:04:08 2002
From: duncan at rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:04:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no> <arsqsd$3j5$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <aruf6o$bd7$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns92D2652D276CAduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote in news:aruf6o$bd7$3 at solaris.cc.vt.edu:

>> Now it's gonna be interesting to see if I ever run into a situation
>> where I'd feel most comfortable doing an if <assignment>:, knowing
>> that there are usually better ways of solving the problem. 
> 
> Testing a bunch of regular expressions on some input and taking action
> on the first match seems to do it for a lot of people.> 

If you have more than one or two patterns, then you should really be
thinking about a loop rather than a long list of if statements: 

PATTERNS = [
  (regex1, action1),
  (regex2, action2),
  # ...
]

for regex, action in PATTERNS:
    match = regex.match(string)
    if match:
        action(match)
        break

I don't see any need for assignment in an 'if' here.


From gerald.hein at epost.de  Sun Nov 24 01:21:21 2002
From: gerald.hein at epost.de (Gerald Hein)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 07:21:21 +0100
Subject: DCOracle2 performance tuning
References: <%uQD9.122449$1O2.8846@sccrnsc04>
Message-ID: <3DE06FE1.3010602@epost.de>

Hi Stacy,

There als exists the possibility to use cx_Oracle instaed of using 
DCOracle. See http://py.vaults.ca/parnassus/apyllo.py/973100124

I never tried cx_Oracle, but it might be worth a try for you ..

Gerald



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Nov 18 21:29:54 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:29:54 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net> <yu998yzqa1q5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <2n7cra.j65.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Andrew Koenig fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 18 November 2002 
03:37 pm:

> Richard> It doesn't have ()s, so it ain't two tuples. Easy enough, da?
> 
        But, in a way, it is the COMMA that defines a tuple, not the ()s... We 
recently had a discussion in which it was explained that

a,b = b,a

in essence generates a (b,a) tuple, then unpacks it into the left-side 
a,b


-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Nov 11 04:58:21 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:58:21 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqltkt$14s$1@news.hccnet.nl> <76c4da8e.0211101357.6a804d20@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqnv3e$ejs$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 10 Nov 2002 13:57:37 -0800, voodoo1man at hotmail.com (Vlad S.) wrote:

<snip some descriptions of the devastating effects of compromising
Lisp>

>the language, and get a YAPFL (yet another pseudo functional
>language). Last time I checked, Python fit into that category, so you
>already have what you say you want.

Without confirming that I want that, I would like to mention that
functional languages can't have side effects. So in order to generate
any output at all some concessions have to be made. Strictly speaking
Lisp is not a functional language. To get at a strictly functional
language - now switching into science fiction mode - a possible
strategy could use an idea found in one of A.E. van Vogt's novel's.
Here a description of a part of the universe is made inside a human
brain which is indistinguishable from the real thing up until the
twentieth's decimal. This enables the main character to effect changes
in the universe because at that level of equality the description of
the universe and the universe itself cannot occupy separate locations.
It's an interesting read and also popularizes some ideas about
identity from Korzibsky's works.

Regards,
		Anton.




From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Mon Nov 11 20:54:08 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:54:08 GMT
Subject: Create DLL in Python ?
References: <1b318b70.0211111607.74ace07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4bZz9.5692$mN6.2514493@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Georges Bernier" <mistericeberg at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1b318b70.0211111607.74ace07 at posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> We have a legacy application at work written in Visual C which makes
> use of a DLL for specific communication functions. Now I have to
> replace this DLL (whose API is well documented) with an enhanced
> version which will make use of TCP/IP instead of older protocols
> without changing the original C application (or at least changing the
> minimum possible).
>
> So does anybody have experience in such a thing, is it a bad idea (as
> I'm starting to think is is) and would it better be done in C/C++ ?
> I would appreciate comments from the Python community on this.

The easiest thing to do is to create a COM server which is what a dll is, or
rather can be. The simplest way to do this is as follows ...

class MY_COM_SERVER:

    # change this next line.  a new id can be generated with
    # >>> import pythoncom
    # >>> print pythoncom.CreateGuid()
    _reg_clsid_ = '{F69D8FCD-97BF-4D60-B5E5-199FC3C63172}'

    # list the public methods
    _public_methods_ = ['COM_SERVER_METHOD']

    # the server's name in the registry
    _reg_progid_ = 'PythonCOMServer.FirstServer'

    def COM_SERVER_METHOD(self):
        return 'Hello, World!'

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import win32com.server.register
    win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(MY_COM_SERVER)

Register it by running it in an ide, or by double clicking the file.  It
would be accessed from VBScript as
Set x = CreateObject('PythonCOMServer.FirstServer')
x.COM_SERVER_METHOD

This creates a late bound COM server accessed like any other dll. There are
many more details, and you should look in the book Python Programming on
Win32 for more.

if, however, the original dll is not a COM object, then I can't help.

-d




From dreed at capital.edu  Mon Nov 25 14:31:23 2002
From: dreed at capital.edu (Dave Reed)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:31:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: cannot import gtk
In-Reply-To: <1038250593.848.6.camel@m37.net195-132-249.noos.fr> (message from
	Pascal Ronecker on 25 Nov 2002 19:56:33 +0100)
References: <pan.2002.11.24.20.59.20.170846@noos.fr> 
	<200211241734.38215.dreed@capital.edu> <1038250593.848.6.camel@m37.net195-132-249.noos.fr>
Message-ID: <200211251931.gAPJVNN25597@fourier.capital.edu>

> From: Pascal Ronecker <ronecker at noos.fr>
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Date: 25 Nov 2002 19:56:33 +0100
> Content-Length: 1651
> 
> Thanks !
> 
> but i'm still stuck.
> 
> For example : GtkText does not exist, neither does Text alone.
> 
> What is more, i have other problems with "from gnome.ui import GnomeApp"
> and so on.Changing all the code seems a long way to me.
> (it is the "eroaster" cd burning tool, a nice all-in-one)
> 
> 
> Maybe the right solution is to "install the bindings" as you say, but i
> do not have the slightest idea as to what it means...
> 
> So if you could explain a bit that last bit, ...
> thx !!

> 
> Lenny


You need to know if eroaster wants gtk 1.2 or gtk2. I'm guessing 1.2
for a couple reasons (gtk2 is relatively new so most older programs
still use 1.2). It does appear with pygtk1.2 that the Gtk prefix is
still there so "from gtk import GtkVBox" is what you want, but with
pygtk2 you don't.

You'll need to download the file: 
gnome-python-1.4.2.tar.gz
which you can find on the gnome.org ftp site and install it with the
usual:

tar zxf gnome-python-1.4.2.tar.gz
cd gnome-python-1.4.2
./configure
make
make install

this will put the pygtk1.2 files in
/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages

so you'll need to add that directory to your PYTHONPATH environment
variable.

HTH,
Dave



From bondpaper at earthlink.net  Sat Nov  9 17:13:02 2002
From: bondpaper at earthlink.net (Tom)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 22:13:02 GMT
Subject: time.sleep on linux
Message-ID: <bondpaper-CB136A.15180409112002@nnrp05.earthlink.net>

Hello,

Is there a special time module I need to install for a standard RH Linux 
7.3 system? The reason I ask is that my installation (2.2.1) seems to be 
missing some time-related functions - time.sleep() for example. 

Thanks.

Tom


From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 28 05:05:31 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:05:31 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <7h3r8d6ovx9.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> writes:

> And the reason for it is because I still don't understand how to
> indent *properly* in Lisp,

You use emacs (after doing 

    (setq lisp-indent-function 'common-lisp-indent-function)

in your ~/.emacs).  Really.

Cheers,
M.    

-- 
  Haha! You had a *really* weak argument! <wink>
                                      -- Moshe Zadka, comp.lang.python


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sun Nov 24 20:53:10 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:53:10 -0800
Subject: Coaxing DWORD values out of a Binary file...
References: <aFcE9.8069$It3.814405@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6qvrra.t7d.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

adeptus fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 24 November 2002 02:46 
pm:

> 
> I've tried unpacking them via the struct module, (by passing them in
> as 4 byte strings) but the numbers I get don't seem to make any sense
> for the file format...
> 
> Am I making a naive assumption about how VC++ would write a DWORD to a
> binary file???
> 
> I'm also assuming that:
>     (i386 centric)
>     8-Bits = 1 Char = 1 Byte
>     1 Word = 2 Bytes
>     1 DWORD = 4 Bytes

        Well, from the VC++ ver5 type definitions:

#ifndef _DWORD_DEFINED
#define _DWORD_DEFINED
typedef unsigned long DWORD;

#endif // !_DWORD_DEFINED

        So... 4 bytes may be correct, but nothing in that controls the byte 
order M$ decided to use in storage <G>


-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From teaandbikkie at aol.com  Wed Nov  6 17:51:02 2002
From: teaandbikkie at aol.com (TeaAndBikkie)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 22:51:02 GMT
Subject: Guilty secret: globals baffle me
References: <trtisuomnb6hkkhqv7de5mop265k1q9ch5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20021106175102.10760.00000103@mb-mq.aol.com>

>From: Gon?alo Rodrigues op73418 at mail.telepac.pt 
>
>On 6 Nov 2002 17:21:46 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
>>I have an uncomfortable feeling there is unfinished
>>business in the way names in nested scopes and otherwise
>>related namespaces work. The global/local dichotomy doesn't
>>fully express the possibilities any more. IMO it would be nice
>>to have full access to accessible namespaces without magically
>>determined access mode restrictions based on full-function lookahead.
>>
>>I.e., we have a de facto hierarchy of name spaces defined by the
>>ability to nest functions. Why not have an access mechanism that
>>allows rebinding as desired? E.g., you could let locals take a depth
>argument,
>>so locals() is equivalent to locals(0), and locals(1) is the enclosing
>>name space, so locals(1)['x'] = 3 in bar above would rebind the x local to
>foo.
>>
>
>I totally agree with you. The uncomfortable feeling is underlined by the
>fact that you can rebind global names through the use of global (the
>only declaration in Python - ach!) but not names in the enclosing scope
>- if it is not global that is. Although I do not feel that there is a
>need for this feature in Python, it strikes as an ugly asymmetry - the
>ugliest in fact.
>
>I would just change a little bit your notation. Instead of reusing
>locals use something like
>
>enclosed()
>
>returning the enclosing scope. And you've guessed it - if you want to
>get at the next scope just use enclosed().enclosed(). The enclosed() at
>global scope should return None.
>
>Now if you wanted to rebind a variable in the enclosing scope you should
>be able to use the notation
>
>enclosed().x = <whatever>
>
>and not dict notation. globals() should follow the same rules.

I would like to be able to have named scope, so you can specify precisely from
which scope the variable is in. Perhaps mixed with relative scope indexing? eg:

def eric():
    licence='fish'
    def bruce():
        licence='halibut'
        print scope(eric).licence
        print scope(-1).licence

Or something more pythonic :-) 

-- Misha



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Nov 19 07:42:33 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:42:33 GMT
Subject: Tkinter/Canvas question, Please Help
References: <2059908.1037644767@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <ZkqC9.4850$h%5.182275@newsb.telia.net>

"benson123456" wrote:

> third question:
> if I am using the grid method, does every row and column has to be the
> same size?

you can use the "columnspan" and "rowspan" options to create
cells that span more than one column/row:

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/grid.htm

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From cappy2112 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 19:00:30 2002
From: cappy2112 at yahoo.com (Tony C)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 16:00:30 -0800
Subject: Newbie- how to basics
Message-ID: <8d3e714e.0211071600.2a98b136@posting.google.com>

I've gone through much of the documentation included with Python
2.2.2, but can find any kind of reference on how to clear the screen
from a python script, or at the command line.


Another useful feature would be command line history (up arrow, down
arrow, etc), like in the Unix shells.

Would ssomeone point me to some docs (specific locations) which
descibe these features ?

thanks


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Nov 27 15:55:40 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:55:40 -0500
Subject: floating point division -- question
References: <as2u3l$ncf6d$5@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de> <slrnau9uvh.1k0.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <as31ig$n7lq2$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <%jaF9.16948$yk6.10839@fe03>

"William Park" <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:as31ig$n7lq2$1 at ID-99293.news.dfncis.de...
> Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote:
> > William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >> Some time ago, there was thread discussing adding a floating point
division
> >> operator, like //.  Doing 'a//b' is certainly easier than doing
'a/float(b)',
> >> and it doesn't break any existing codes.  Has there been any interest
from
> >> the Gods of Python?
> >
> > Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>> from __future__ import division
> >>>> 3 / 5
> > 0.59999999999999998
> >>>> 3 // 5
> > 0
> >
> > It's been there since the original Python 2.2 release. See
> > http://www.python.org/doc/current/whatsnew/node7.html for details.
>
> Thanks Gerhard.  Although I would've have switched the two operator, so
> that existing code doesn't change...
>

But there's simply no way you could do that. If you'd used "/" for integer
division then programs that used it with float operands would have broken.
Either way it's a change in semantics, and that's why Guido has decreed the
change will take so long.

regards
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/
Previous .sig file retired to                    www.homeforoldsigs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------





From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 10 01:30:18 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 06:30:18 GMT
Subject: Determining Presence Of GUI Support
References: <42aiqa.jp82.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <aL2z9.8372$Bs5.285294@news1.tin.it> <vpgjqa.l7h2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <aqkudq$9tu$0@216.39.172.122>

On 09 Nov 2002 17:40:11 GMT, Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>Years ago, in the transition from MS-DOS to Windows, there used to be
>a way to lay a DOS binary into the Windows executable file.  That way,
I suspect there still is, normally used for the code that tells you
"This program cannot be run in DOS mode." ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jarek at usun.zgoda.biz  Wed Nov 20 16:00:08 2002
From: jarek at usun.zgoda.biz (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:00:08 +0100
Subject: Advice for using emacs python-mode
References: <yu99el9g2eyf.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <14n8la15cqnk7$.ulxse2lvi2kc.dlg@40tude.net>

Dnia Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:55:52 GMT, Andrew Koenig pisze:

> Any suggestions?

Use Vim.
No offence, just kidding. ;)

-- 
~$ rm -f /bin/Laden
I po k?opocie!

-- 
Serwis Usenet w portalu Gazeta.pl -> http://www.gazeta.pl/usenet/


From rademacher at prostep.FTA-berlin.de  Thu Nov 28 05:01:49 2002
From: rademacher at prostep.FTA-berlin.de (Thomas Rademacher)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:01:49 +0100
Subject: [Tkinter] text widget update problem
Message-ID: <as4pfu$ntvsk$1@ID-28938.news.dfncis.de>

Hallo,

I want to write a text widget which can be filled step by step in dependent
on program sequence:
...
scrollbar = Scrollbar(frameMsg, orient=VERTICAL)
scrollbar.pack(fill=Y, side=RIGHT)
text = Text(frameMsg, bd=0,font='courier 8', width=960, height=450,
fg="black")
text.pack()
text.config(yscrollcommand=scrollbar.set)
scrollbar.config(command=text.yview)
...

The input of the text widget I create in a singleton logger class:
...
Logging.__msgHandle.insert(END, logString)
Logging.__msgHandle.update()  <--
...

I want to see the the output step by step during program sequence. But I
have following problems:
1. With Logging.__msgHandle.update() I get a program crash when all lines in
the widget filled. The widget does not show the following messages.
2. Without  Logging.__msgHandle.update() I get the my program output at the
end of the program and not step by step.

How can I resolve the problem? Who has any ideas? It is a singleton class
problem?
Thank's for your hints, Thomas




From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 20 10:27:18 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 15:27:18 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <areli6$ris$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnatlo5h.r3b.grante@localhost.localdomain> <arg8nn$kr2$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3ddba9d6$0$4464$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <arg8nn$kr2$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
> On 20 Nov 2002 01:07:57 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> [...]
>>> 
>>> Sounds like the mask location is safe if you don't call
>>> GetOverlappedResult??
>
> OTOH it looks to me pretty sure that a persistent LPOVERLAPPED
> structure at least is expected for the duration of the
> background operation.
> 
> and, thinking about it, it says,
> 
> "GetOverlappedResult reports the success or failure of the
> operation, and the variable pointed to by the lpEvtMask
> parameter is set to indicate the event that occurred."
> 
> but you don't re-specify lpEvtMask with that call, so I think I
> would agree with your original take on all this.

Assuming the text on the MSDN page is correct.

> They wouldn't just force a wait all the time, would they?

I've seen plenty of apps that assume it doesn't wait all the
time.  If I had a C compiler and knew how to write a simple
console app for Win32, it would be easy enough to figure out
how it really does work.  The Win32 guys I work with directly
all write device drivers and none of them know how the
user-land API works.

> Though I can imagine that being a tempting temporary quick fix
> for something, and temporariness sometimes stretches.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Here I am in the
                                  at               POSTERIOR OLFACTORY LOBULE
                               visi.com            but I don't see CARL SAGAN
                                                   anywhere!!


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Nov 14 08:52:15 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 14:52:15 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C5C92001CEEdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1ilqic9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3DD36C57.8050604@trados.com>
Message-ID: <m3d6p8s1gw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Zoltan Sekeres <zoltan at trados.com> writes:

>  From my experience (I work for TRADOS, a translation tools provider) the
> translation becomes much easier with XML. With XML it is usually
> sufficient to provide a simple config file for our TagEditor product and
> it just works.

The problem that I still consider unsolved is how may translators can
work on a single document, and how retranslation of the entire
document in case of changes can be avoided. This can be solved
theoretically, by assigning IDs to relevant elements (and then finding
out which IDs need to change), but I'm not sure whether this would
work in practice.

Regards,
Martin



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov 22 19:19:21 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:19:21 -0600
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
In-Reply-To: <200211222342.PAA10255@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
        <mailman.1037996971.11725.python-list@python.org>
        <cDyD9.43308$744.1553979@news1.tin.it>
        <200211222342.PAA10255@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <15838.51593.296849.174022@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Chad> xMax = []
    Chad> for -whatever-:
    Chad>   -big calculation leading to a value of x-
    Chad>   xMax = [max([x]+xMax)]
    Chad> xMax = xMax[0]

Wouldn't it be better to accumulate all your x's in a list and call max once
at the end:

    xlist = []
    for -whatever-:
        xlist.append(big_hairy_calc)
    xMax = max(xlist)

?

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From peter at silmaril.ie  Fri Nov  1 18:07:35 2002
From: peter at silmaril.ie (Peter Flynn)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 23:07:35 +0000
Subject: Field in SGML file
References: <d02408fc.0210291203.5a2af485@posting.google.com> <apo6a7$omp$1@news-reader10.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <apv159$53md2$1@ID-163087.news.dfncis.de>

Eric Brunel wrote:
> Ilya Shambat wrote:
> 
>>I need to be able to read a field in an SGML file with Python. Do you
>>know how to do that?
> 
> 
> What are you calling a "field"? Is it an element? An element's attribute? 
> And what is your SGML file like? Is it a simple, Xml-like file, or does it 
> uses SGML's funky features like shortref's or usemap's?
> 
> If your file is simple enough, you may find it simpler to write your own 
> "micro-parser", doing exactly what you want to do. Parsing a full-featured 
> SGML file is *really* complicated but if the file's simple enough, writing 
> your own parser is probably the best solution.
> 
> If you file is too complicated, you'd better use an external parser and 
> analyse the parser's results with Python. I personally used nsgmls quite a 
> lot (http://www.jclark.com/sp/): it's fast, easy to use (at least if you 
> know what SGML is about...) and its results is easy to analyse.

I'd recommend using nsgmls no matter what the file size or complexity.
Get it from http://www.jclark.com/sp/index.htm

I don't know how you call external binaries from within Python, but you
need to issue the command string

	nsgmls -cCATALOG [sgml-dec] filename

where CATALOG is the name of a catalog file used to resolve entity
references and [sgml-dec] is an optional SGML Declaration filename.
You need to ask the people supplying the SGML file if you need these
or not (and if you do, they must supply you with them).

This will produce ESIS output (http://xml.coverpages.org/WG8-n931a.html)
which is very easily usable in a scripting language, and from which you
can extract the data you need.

///Peter



From lehmann at puk.unibe.ch  Fri Nov 29 07:40:25 2002
From: lehmann at puk.unibe.ch (christoph)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 04:40:25 -0800
Subject: pyopengl install problem on redhat 8.0
Message-ID: <e9851925.0211290440.4c14ef03@posting.google.com>

on a redhat 8.0 system (a31p thinkpad) i ran

python setup.py build

and got:

gcc -shared build/temp.linux-i686-2.2/GL.ARB.matrix_palette.o -L/usr/lib
-L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/X11/lib -Lbuild/temp.linux-i686-2.2 -lGL -lX11
-lXext -lGLU -linterface_util -lGLE -o
build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/OpenGL/GL/ARB/matrix_palette.so
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lX11
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1


please help me!!!
thanks a lot
christoph


From mike at skew.org  Sat Nov 23 04:51:50 2002
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 02:51:50 -0700
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org> <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com> <arksfq$bdp$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>
Message-ID: <3ddf4fb7$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>

"Jarkko Torppa" <torppa at staff.megabaud.fi> wrote:
> Seems that stdio is somehow confused, try this
>
> import urllib, time, os
>
> starttime = time.time()
> u = urllib.urlopen('http://localhost/4m')
> fn = u.fp.fileno()
> bytea = [ ]
> while 1:
>     bytes = os.read(fn, 16 * 1024)
>     if bytes == '':
>         break
>     bytea.append(bytes)
> bytes = ''.join(bytea)
> u.close()

[...]

Well, look at that...

bytes: 4241.5K; time: 0.322s (13171 KB/s)

That's much better. At least, it now seems to be hitting the socket speed
cap.

Thanks!




From stuart at bmsi.com  Sat Nov  9 23:27:24 2002
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 04:27:24 GMT
Subject: Getting SSL certificate
References: <aeGy9.15988$6b.572415@news2.east.cox.net> <m3smycjztc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <kuisz8bhne.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <j48z04z2wy.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <LG%y9.21231$6b.825832@news2.east.cox.net> <m3fzubmds4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Melz9.28648$6b.1126434@news2.east.cox.net>

On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:56:59 -0500, Martin v. Loewis wrote:

>> That would make sense, but the docs say that checking the server
>> certificate is not implemented.
> 
> Did you try? Python passes the cert_file argument to
> SSL_CTX_use_certificate_chain_file. It might be a problem that Python
> never calls SSL_get_verify_result, though (but then, I understand that
> the default verify callback will return preverify_ok, so if the server
> certificate could not be verified, the TLS handshake will be
> terminated).

Tying doesn't tell me whether the cert was actually checked.  I don't get
any errors, however, poking around in the C source for socketmodule.c, I
find for opening an SSL connection:

        if (key_file) {
                if (SSL_CTX_use_PrivateKey_file(self->ctx, key_file,
                                                SSL_FILETYPE_PEM) < 1) {
                        errstr = "SSL_CTX_use_PrivateKey_file error";
                        goto fail;
                }

                if (SSL_CTX_use_certificate_chain_file(self->ctx,
                                                       cert_file) < 1) {
                        errstr = "SSL_CTX_use_certificate_chain_file error";
                        goto fail;
                }
        }

        SSL_CTX_set_verify(self->ctx,
                           SSL_VERIFY_NONE, NULL); /* set verify lvl */
        self->ssl = SSL_new(self->ctx); /* New ssl struct */
        SSL_set_fd(self->ssl, Sock->sock_fd);   /* Set the socket for SSL */
        SSL_set_connect_state(self->ssl);
        /* Actually negotiate SSL connection */
        /* XXX If SSL_connect() returns 0, it's also a failure. */
        ret = SSL_connect(self->ssl);

And the openssl docs have this to say about SSL_VERIFY_NONE:

       SSL_VERIFY_NONE
           Server mode: the server will not send a client
           certificate request to the client, so the client will
           not send a certificate.

           Client mode: if not using an anonymous cipher (by
           default disabled), the server will send a certificate
           which will be checked. The result of the certificate
           verification process can be checked after the TLS/SSL
           handshake using the SSL_get_verify_result(3) function.
           The handshake will be continued regardless of the
           verification result.

socketmodule.c never calls SSL_get_verify_result()

It seems that the docs are correct.  The certificate is not validated and
I could be talking to anybody or their dog.
  Furthermore, while the
server and issuer are exposed through undocumented attributes, the
server_cert is not.  So there is no way to validate the cert manually,
short of rewriting socketmodule.c.  This is one case where the batteries
included have been sitting on the shelf too long.

If only the server_cert were available, validating it is not too much
work.  There is an external 'verify' program supplied with openssl that
does most of the work for you.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Nov 15 16:08:23 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:08:23 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <20021115180601.9454.63491.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021115180601.9454.63491.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18Cnjz-0002Ro-00@conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Friday 15 November 2002 10:06 am,  Tim Peters wrote:
> waiting-for-someone-to-ask-for-class-comprehensions-ly y'rs ?- tim

I'm inspired.  Unfortunately, I'm still using 2.1.3 -- pardon my dust:

def meth1():
    print 1

def meth2():
    print 2

def meth3():
    print 3

# Emulate 2.2 built-in?
def dict(l):
    d = {}
    for pair in l:
        d[pair[0]] = pair[1]
    return d

class comp:
    def __init__(self):
        self.__dict__.update(dict(
            [(f.__name__,f) for f in globals().values() if callable(f) ] ))

>>> c = comp()
>>> c.meth1()
1
>>> c.meth2()
2

;-D
Still considering whether there's a more compact (or at least clearer) way to 
write that.

Practically, of course, using globals() is sort of dumb -- but imagine 
importing a module and using the module name instead.

Actually I can think of one practical use for this: In a Zope product, it's 
quite convenient to have a separate module containing ZSQL methods defined 
using Zope's SQL() factory function (that way you separate SQL and Python 
languages for the most part).  Then you could use this code with the ZSQL 
module to put ALL SQL methods from a given module into a class.  That way
you skip a whole lot of:

	mySQL_query = SQLmodule.mySQL_query

statements in the class file that have to be updated every time you change 
your SQL (which is fairly frequent).  This particular ugliness came up in the 
Zope list a few months ago, and the OP proposed writing a special parser / 
SQL extension language to do it. It turned out that this need to "shovel" the 
whole contents of an SQL module into a class was the only real problem it 
solved. This would be a simpler solution.

There's other, perhaps better, ways to do it, of course -- it might make more 
sense to just use a loop and setattr(), for example.

Just adding to the list comp madness. ;-)

Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Nov 25 05:25:01 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 11:25:01 +0100
Subject: sockets and encryption
References: <8hi2uuguh0l0jlmrao1fjshle68op1kt4s@4ax.com> <mailman.1038191676.26279.python-list@python.org> <lip3uu0r7u1l2v0rpv1v1n9klh7me7m5l3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3k7j2j69u.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Paul Nilsson <p.nilsson at xtra.co.nz> writes:

> Since HTML is ascii and XML is unicode I thought this may put
> some limitations on what raw data could be sent. 

This is a misconception. Neither is HTML ascii, nor is XML unicode.
When transmitted over the wire, both are byte strings.

By "XML is Unicode", people usually mean that an XML document is
*conceptually* a sequence of Unicode characters. The same is true for
HTML (formally atleast since HTML 3.0 or so; conceptually, you can
apply this view for all HTML versions).

When represented in a byte-oriented medium, an encoding has to be
applied to the sequence of Unicode characters. Both HTML and XML allow
usage of arbitrary encodings: "ASCII", "iso-8859-1", "utf-8", you name
them, we have them.

> I had suspected that SSL incorporated a unicode layer which could
> cause problems if I wanted to send raw bytes (or I would have to
> converrt them to CDATA).

Another misconception: In a CDATA section, you cannot put arbitrary
bytes. You must put characters there, according to the declared
document encoding.

Regards,
Martin


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 29 15:41:08 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 21:41:08 +0100
Subject: Parser building in Python
References: <mailman.1038579752.350.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3u1i0t8gr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

ml <ml at knorke.in-berlin.de> writes:

> I like to write a parser in Python.  The language itself is
> not LALR(1), but I could do some tricks to make it LALR(1).
> What are the best tools to write lexers and parsers in
> Python?  Maybe sth. similar to ANTLR?

I personally recommend YAPPS (or YAPPS2). It's only LL(1), but the
generated parser is very easy to understand.

Regards,
Martin



From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Thu Nov  7 10:37:39 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 15:37:39 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <mailman.1036674730.19464.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasl263.4bc.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <mailman.1036674730.19464.python-list at python.org>,
	Steven D. Arnold wrote:
> There may be difficulties like the ones you bring up, but my feeling is the
> Parrot people ought to go for solving the easy 90 percent of the problem,
> even if it means that little code from any language will work out of the box
> (except perhaps perl6; it is their baby, after all).  

But then Parrot/Python becomes a variant of Python, and you have to
ask why work on one variant and not another?  Why work on
Parrot/Python and not .NET/Python, which would also be a variant?

Months ago I once predicted that Mono (the effort to write a Linux
.NET implementation) would likely founder on the sheer complexity of
duplicating a large and possibly-shifting standard CLR, while Parrot,
which had a seemingly simpler task, would get its first usable version
out more quickly.  Astonishingly, just the opposite has happened; Mono
has been making releases every few months and steadily writing more
add-on libraries, while Parrot has advanced much more slowly.  I'd
like to dust off Mark Hammond's python.NET code, but unfortunately
Mono doesn't yet implement enough of the necessary APIs to support it.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
HAMLET: Ay, madam, it is common.
      -- _Hamlet_, I, ii


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 14 15:29:00 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:29:00 -0500
Subject: Variable names on the fly?
References: <3dd3f5fd$0$28311$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <SOqdnRvYf6nxm0mgXTWcoQ@comcast.com>

"e-tones.co.uk" <admin at e-tones.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3dd3f5fd$0$28311$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
> Hi all, does python allow the creation of variable names on the fly,
more
> importantly lists.
>
> I have a stock list containing 5 elements, [0,0,0,0,0]
>
> Lets call it: list
>
> Now, via a loop, can I create list1, list2, list3 on the fly by
replicting
> the original list, eg
>
> i = 1
> for i in range(2)
>     list+i = list
>
> Whats the proper format to concatenate (sp?) variable names. I used
list+i,
> obviously this doesnt work, but what does :)

I believe you can use setattr() with globals, but you almost certainly
do not want to do this.  How do you access the runtime-defined names?
As suggested, an explicit dict others than globals is almost certainly
better.  TJR




From rademacher at prostep.FTA-berlin.de  Fri Nov 29 08:39:38 2002
From: rademacher at prostep.FTA-berlin.de (Thomas Rademacher)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:39:38 +0100
Subject: [Tkinter] text widget update problem
References: <as4pfu$ntvsk$1@ID-28938.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1038566621.9764.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as7qjk$oivmv$1@ID-28938.news.dfncis.de>

Hallo Martin,

> On Thu, 2002-11-28 at 10:01, Thomas Rademacher wrote:
> > Hallo,
> >
> > I want to write a text widget which can be filled step by step in
dependent
> > on program sequence:
> > ...
> > scrollbar = Scrollbar(frameMsg, orient=VERTICAL)
> > scrollbar.pack(fill=Y, side=RIGHT)
> > text = Text(frameMsg, bd=0,font='courier 8', width=960, height=450,
> > fg="black")
> > text.pack()
> > text.config(yscrollcommand=scrollbar.set)
> > scrollbar.config(command=text.yview)
> > ...
> >
> > The input of the text widget I create in a singleton logger class:
> > ...
> > Logging.__msgHandle.insert(END, logString)
> > Logging.__msgHandle.update()  <--
> > ...
> >
> > I want to see the the output step by step during program sequence. But I
> > have following problems:
> > 1. With Logging.__msgHandle.update() I get a program crash when all
lines in
> > the widget filled. The widget does not show the following messages.
> > 2. Without  Logging.__msgHandle.update() I get the my program output at
the
> > end of the program and not step by step.
> >
> > How can I resolve the problem? Who has any ideas? It is a singleton
class
> > problem?
> > Thank's for your hints, Thomas
> >
> >
>
> Are you calling update() from the main thread (you don't mention threads
> but I am guessing you are using them)  Could you post a cut down version
> that demonstrates the problem?  I have had problems with calling
> update() from another thread.....
>

Yes!!! I use threads:

for ii in range(maxSession):
    log.log(__name__, 0, "enter", "beforeThreads"); <-- logging in text
widget WITHOUT problems

    myS = session.Session(dxmDbServer, ii+1, maxDs, lang, cpu, usr, pwd,
authmode, clienttype)
    thread.start_new_thread(threadSession,(myS,))

def threadSession(actSession):
     global log
     log.log(__name__, 0, "enter", "threadSession") <- logging in text
widget WITH problems
     log.log(__name__, 0, "input", actSession)
     actSession.testSession()
     log.log(__name__, 0, "leave", "threadSession")

Have you an idea how can I resolve this problem?
Thank's Thomas!





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  9 08:54:05 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 13:54:05 +0000
Subject: How to spawn a program and assign its stdout to a string variable?
References: <pan.2002.11.09.12.59.56.239034@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3DCD137D.E714C3CA@hotmail.com>

"Christopher R. Culver" wrote:

> I'm working on a pdf2ps frontend script that will use the *nix utility
> "file" to determine a file's type without blindly trying to work on it. 
> I assume the best way to do this is to spawn "file", capture its stdout
> to a string variable.........

Or you could check this thread which discusses a python implementation
of the unix "file" command:-

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=9c3f2e9c.0201150943.5e4de1fb%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D9c3f2e9c.0201150943.5e4de1fb%2540posting.google.com

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Nov 15 13:43:07 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:43:07 +0000
Subject: wrapping all class methods
In-Reply-To: <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com>
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com>
Message-ID: <VQmkzVA7AU19Ewm3@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

..... it seems I was asking a question that Python cannot answer as traceback.print_exc()
will only print a traceback back to the point at which it's caught.
The stack frames are there and can be listed further, but I don't
think that the line number information is always good beyond the exception handler.

############# traceback.py
def tracebackAdvice(origMethod, methodName):
        def wrap_traceback_method(*args, **kwargs):
                inst = args[0]
                try:
                        origMethod(*args, **kwargs)
                except:
                        print '[%s.%s]' % (inst.__class__.__name__, methodName)
                        from traceback import print_exc
                        print_exc()
                        print 'stack info'
                        import sys
                        f = sys._getframe(1)
                        while f:
                                co = f.f_code
                                print 'name:%s file:%s co_lno:%d lasti:%d f_lno:%d' % (co.co_name, co.co_filename,
co.co_firstlineno, f.f_lasti, f.f_lineno)
                                f = f.f_back

        return wrap_traceback_method

def _allMethods(C):
        from inspect import ismethod, getmembers
        M = []
        m = M.append
        for methodname,method in getmembers(C):
                if ismethod(method): m(methodname)
        return tuple(M)

def tracebackWrap(C, *M):
                for m in M or _allMethods(C):
                        setattr(C, m, tracebackAdvice(getattr(C, m), m))

if __name__=='__main__':
        class A(object):
                def f(self, x):
                        assert x>=0
                        print "real f", x
        tracebackWrap(A, "f")
        def L2():
                a = A()
                a.f(1)
                a.f(-1)
        def L1():
                L2()
        def L0():
                L1()
        L0()
#################################
C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends>tbwrap.py
real f 1
[A.f]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends\tbwrap.py", line 5, in wrap_traceback_method
    origMethod(*args, **kwargs)
  File "C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends\tbwrap.py", line 35, in f
    assert x>=0
AssertionError
stack info
name:L2 file:C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends\tbwrap.py co_lno:38 lasti:43 f_lno:41
name:L1 file:C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends\tbwrap.py co_lno:42 lasti:9 f_lno:43
name:L0 file:C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends\tbwrap.py co_lno:44 lasti:9 f_lno:45
name:? file:C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends\tbwrap.py co_lno:1 lasti:138 f_lno:46

C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\backends>
-- 
Robin Becker



From bswhb at 263.net  Wed Nov 20 22:54:42 2002
From: bswhb at 263.net (Wang Hanbo)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:54:42 +0800
Subject: A simple question: How to exit from a python script? Just like the exit() in C++
Message-ID: <006801c29111$bf776660$d001a8c0@dctc.cs>

Hi,
 
         I have a simple question as is written in the header, how can I
exit from a python program using a call such as "exit()" in C++?
 
         I am a novice on this list, and also a rookie on python
language, all of you answers will be my best impetus!
         Thanks
 
 
Hanbo
2002-11-21 
-------------- next part --------------
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From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 13 07:42:42 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:42:42 GMT
Subject: simple metaclass question
References: <3DD08DC1.A4CFE557@irl.cri.nz> <aqs27n$avm$5@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <6NrA9.4123$744.137981@news1.tin.it>

Carl Banks wrote:
   ...
> 2. Because M is not a subclass of type, instances of M are not types.
>    Therefore, A is not a type.  (I'm not sure of this one, though.  I
>    think in Python an object can be a type only if it is a subclass of
>    type; I'm not sure if this is true in other languages with

I'm not exactly sure of what it is that you believe, but, for the record: 
objects CAN be types of other objects, in Python, without subclassing the 
built-in `type` -- for example:

>>> class oldClass: pass
...
>>> issubclass(type(oldClass), type)
0


Alex



From brian at sweetapp.com  Thu Nov  7 05:22:12 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 02:22:12 -0800
Subject: Syntax Error, help a newbie
In-Reply-To: <yhqy9.357108$nc1.2573154@telenews.teleline.es>
Message-ID: <001101c28647$893a8930$21795418@dell1700>

> self._services = [ s for s in self._services: if s._name !=
'$removed$' ]

[sniped]

> PS. Red Hat Linux 7.2 running python-1.5.2-38

Even if your syntax were correct, it wouldn't work. Python 1.52 didn't
have list comprehensions. 

Cheers,
Brian




From Greg_Aumann at sil.org  Mon Nov  4 08:26:39 2002
From: Greg_Aumann at sil.org (Greg Aumann)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:26:39 +0800
Subject: file iterators and codecs, a bug?
Message-ID: <HLEMLFBIHMLILMGCNENOAELPCFAA.Greg_Aumann@sil.org>

Recently I figured out how to use iterators and generators. Quite easy to
use and a great improvement.

But when I refactored some of my code I came across a discrepancy that seems
like it must be a bug. If you use the old file reading idiom with a codec
the lines are converted to unicode but if you use the new iterators idiom
then they retain the original encoding and the line is returned in non
unicode strings. Surely using the new "for line in file:" idiom should give
the same result as the old, "while 1: ...."

I came across this when using the pythonzh Chinese codecs but the below code
uses the cp1252 encoding to illustrate the problem because everyone should
have those codecs. The symptoms are the same with both codecs.

I am using python 2.2.2 on win2k.

Is this definitely a bug, or is it an undocumented 'feature' of the codecs
module?

Greg Aumann

The following code illustrates the problem:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"""Check readline iterator using a codec."""

import codecs

fname = 'tmp.txt'
f = file(fname, 'w')
for i in range(0x82, 0x8c):
    f.write( '%x, %s\n' % (i, chr(i)))
f.close()

def test_iter():
    print '\ntesting codec iterator.'
    f = codecs.open(fname, 'r', 'cp1252')
    for line in f:
        l = line.rstrip()
        print repr(l)
        print repr(l.decode('cp1252'))
    f.close()

def test_readline():
    print '\ntesting codec readline.'
    f = codecs.open(fname, 'r', 'cp1252')
    while 1:
        line = f.readline()
        if not line:
            break
        l = line.rstrip()
        print repr(l)
        try:
            print repr(l.decode('cp1252'))
        except AttributeError, msg:
            print 'AttributeError', msg
    f.close()

test_iter()
test_readline()
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This code gives the following output:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
testing codec iterator.
'82, \x82'
u'82, \u201a'
'83, \x83'
u'83, \u0192'
'84, \x84'
u'84, \u201e'
'85, \x85'
u'85, \u2026'
'86, \x86'
u'86, \u2020'
'87, \x87'
u'87, \u2021'
'88, \x88'
u'88, \u02c6'
'89, \x89'
u'89, \u2030'
'8a, \x8a'
u'8a, \u0160'
'8b, \x8b'
u'8b, \u2039'

testing codec readline.
u'82, \u201a'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute 'decode'
u'83, \u0192'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute 'decode'
u'84, \u201e'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute 'decode'
u'85, \u2026'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute 'decode'
u'86, \u2020'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute 'decode'
u'87, \u2021'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute 'decode'
u'88, \u02c6'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute 'decode'
u'89, \u2030'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute 'decode'
u'8a, \u0160'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute 'decode'
u'8b, \u2039'
AttributeError 'unicode' object has no attribute 'decode'
------------------------------------------------------------------------




From boud at valdyas.org  Sat Nov 16 06:50:52 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:50:52 +0100
Subject: keyword arguments and **
References: <3dd51831$0$13642$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl> <w68B9.12486$744.448146@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3dd6324b$0$54400$e4fe514c@dreader7.news.xs4all.nl>

<posted & mailed>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> 
> Usual problem: when an argument (here, fields) has a default
> value that is mutable, that value is determined ONCE, when the
> def statement executes -- then that single value stays around
> (the function object references it), and if you mutate it you
> get such a "memory effect".
> 
> Usual fix:
> 
>>>> def f(fields=None, **args):
>  ...     if fields is None: fields = {}
>  ...     print fields
>  ...     fields.update(args)
>  ...     print "XXX", fields
> 

Thanks. I feel even sillier now :-).

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov  5 21:59:53 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 02:59:53 GMT
Subject: [OT] You've still got an hour to vote on the (US ;-)  West Coast
Message-ID: <aqa0j9$jg3$1@216.39.172.122>

Do it. I'm off...

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From questions at smartcardware.com  Sat Nov 23 10:39:14 2002
From: questions at smartcardware.com (smartcardware.com)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 07:39:14 -0800
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
Message-ID: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com>

Greetings!  I am the lead developer in a upcoming game company that
will start work on a new game at the beginning of 2003.  We are (like
everyone else in the gaming industry right now) searching for a
scripting language to use in our game.  I've heard that Python is a
great scripting language with one downfall for game
designers/programmers.  That is that you must embed your code into
Python, instead of convensional scripting langauges where you embed
the scripting language into your code.  Basically we want to use
scripting languages for AI, game items stats, player stats, and a few
other things.  We'll use an advanced 3d engine (C++) for the rest.
   What we don't want to have to develope our code around Python,
rather develope our code and embed Python to fit our code when and
where we desire.

Any and all imput would be great!  Thanks!

Venn Syii


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 25 14:51:25 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:51:25 -0500
Subject: stupid Python/database connection
References: <4cce07d5.0211250918.5c97a929@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <--idnWoJVock4n-gXTWcpw@comcast.com>

"animeshk" <animeshk at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4cce07d5.0211250918.5c97a929 at posting.google.com...
> So . . . how can the decision of what-database-to-use be defferred
to
> runtime?  When writing, say, a BDE app in Delphi, it would be a
simple
> matter of what alias to use.  How is this done in Python?

For the runtime selection of what module to import: if the name of the
database module you actually want is in a program variable as a
string, you can write

db = __import__(database_module)

If database_module == 'somedbmodule', then this works just like

import somedbmodule as db

Terry J. Reedy




From tundra at tundraware.com  Sat Nov  9 18:48:05 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 23:48:05 GMT
Subject: Tkinter listbox selection handling
Message-ID: <co6kqa.tqk2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

Hmmm ...  I have Tkinter listbox created like this:

class myUI:

     def __init__(self, root):

         # Setup the visual elements
         self.hSB = Scrollbar(root, orient=HORIZONTAL)
         self.vSB = Scrollbar(root, orient=VERTICAL)
         self.listbox = Listbox(root,
                                foreground = FCOLOR,
                                background  = BCOLOR,
                                font = (FNAME, FSZ, FWT),
                                selectmode=SINGLE,
                                exportselection=0,
                                xscrollcommand=self.hSB.set,
                                yscrollcommand=self.vSB.set,
                                height = HEIGHT,
                                width = WIDTH,
                                )

         self.hSB.config(command=self.y.xview)
         self.hSB.pack(side=BOTTOM, fill=X)
         self.vSB.config(command=self.DirList.yview)
         self.vSB.pack(side=RIGHT, fill=Y)
         self.DirList.pack(side=LEFT, fill=BOTH, expand=1)


I instantiate it like this:

root = Tk()
UI = myUI(root)

Then I add a handler:

UI.listbox.bind('<button-1>', handlerfunc)

All this works fine up to a point.  However, inside handlerfunc(), if I do
a UI.listbox.selection_get(,) I get the *previously* selected item back,
not the currently selected item.  This is also the case if I try using
UI.listbox.curselection().

I've worked around this by trashing the idea of an event handler and
polling the widget regularly looking for changes, but that is a really
ugly solution... This was suggested in some of my reading because there
is no 'command' attribute for a Listbox.

So, am I missing something here? *Is* there a way to use events to
pickup the currently selected Listbox item, or am I stuck doing it with
polling?

TIA,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Nov 16 08:23:23 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:23:23 -0500
Subject: My Python Editor "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE" does not refesh
References: <mailman.1037422524.22358.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <utcha6tcots2ce@news.supernews.com>

"kathik thyagarajan" <karthik_qmax at yahoo.co.in> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037422524.22358.python-list at python.org...

Hi Guys,
I am having the trouble of having to exit the editor every time I make
some changes to my code in order to execute the code using the
"ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE"  editor. DOS work fine but the
problem with DOS is that and other editors like gvim is that I am unable
to debug my code with them. Is there any problem with theinstallation or
is there any other patch to be added? Does any one know. Other wise I
have to clos a bunch of files, open them, set break points, make
changes, close them again and keep iterating the whole thing.

Eagerly awaiting replies.

Karthik

Does that for me, too. I suspect you may have to explicitly refresh a
new module, but I haven't bothered figuring out how because I tend to do
XP style test first and have never bothered with the debugger.

I just keep a DOS window open and have a little script that runs the
test module. A couple of clicks, five keystrokes and I know whether the
last change worked or not.

John Roth




From Paul.Moore at atosorigin.com  Mon Nov 11 06:42:58 2002
From: Paul.Moore at atosorigin.com (Moore, Paul)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:42:58 -0000
Subject: Efficient scanning of mbox files
Message-ID: <16E1010E4581B049ABC51D4975CEDB88619932@UKDCX001.uk.int.atosorigin.com>

I have an application which needs to scan through a number of large
mbox files, preprocessing them to allow later efficient access to
individual messages by index and/or message-id (I'm writing a news
server which serves up mbox archives as newsgroups).

I'm happy doing a preprocessing step of the file, but I want this to
be reasonably efficient (it's only startup time, but I don't want it
to be a *lot* of startup time), and I don't want to store masses of
data in memory (some of these files are *big*). The memory constraint
makes storing messages in memory a non-starter. I am currently
scanning the mbox by hand, reading line by line, and storing the file
offset and length of each message (detecting "From" delimiters). I can
then use seek() and read() to grab messages on demand. By reading each
message into an email.Message instance during the preprocessing step,
I can also get the message-id for an id->index lookup dictionary, and
also to get message headers for "overview" type information without
needing to go back to the message.

This works OK, but I wonder if it's the most effective way. I
considered using the "mailbox" module, but couldn't find a way
with this of getting file offsets. Also I have to do my own "while 1/
readline" loop, as "for line in file" uses buffering which makes the
results of the tell() function invalid...

If anyone has any suggestions for improvement, I'd love to hear them.

I've considered slurping the whole file into RAM and splitting it
up and analyzing like that, but I've not tried it yet. My instinct
is that this would complicate the code, and could have large memory
overheads (building lots of big strings) for little speed improvement.

Thanks for any help,
Paul.

PS Here's the code. Return value is a tuple of filename, number of
   articles, and a list of file positions which are the start/end
   of articles (so there are n+1 entries in the list). This version
   doesn't use email to get message-id or header values, and so is
   simpler and more efficient than what I'll end up with...

    def add_group(self, id, file):
        print "Opening file", file, "for group", id
        fp = open(file, "rb")
        posns = []
        oldpos = 0
        n = 0
        while 1:
            line = fp.readline()
            if not line: break
            if FROM_RE.match(line):
                n += 1
                posns.append(oldpos)
            oldpos = fp.tell()
        fp.close()
        posns.append(oldpos)
        print "Group", id, "- articles(posns) =", n, len(posns)
        self.groups[id] = (file, n, posns)



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 18 18:27:51 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 15:27:51 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
In-Reply-To: <wgeC9.17350$0U1.1713575@news2.east.cox.net>
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
	 <yu99isyujyrc.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
	 <wgeC9.17350$0U1.1713575@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <1037662070.27904.232.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 14:58, Richard Dillingham wrote:
> > Instead, (a, b) >= (c, d) is defined as (a>c or (a==c and b>=d)).
> 
> I just keep reading that again and again and thinking "WTF? Why? Wha...."
> 
> *shudders*
> 
> Now I'm sorry I asked...

Just in case it isn't clear, it isn't defined that way /in the
interpreter/.  Andrew was merely stating that the two statements are
/equivalent/ in this particular example (otherwise, think of the mess
when there are more than two elements in the tuple).

Instead of thinking of a tuple as a coordinate, think of it as an
immutable list (which is basically what it is).  Then the comparison
makes more sense.  It's the same comparison used on other Python
sequences (lists, tuples, strings, etc).


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From paul.osman at sympatico.ca  Tue Nov  5 19:16:56 2002
From: paul.osman at sympatico.ca (Paul Osman)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:16:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: What's wrong with my for loop?
In-Reply-To: <20021106000730.64582.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211051913030.11913-100000@fibonacci.posman.homelinux.com>

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Mindy wrote:

> Hey, I got such errors in runing my small program. The
> attachment is my program named ld.stat.py and the
> following is the error:
>
> % ld.stat.py
>   File "ld.stat.py", line 23
>     for name in names
>                     ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

that's because your line should read:

for name in names:

note the colon...

> As there are no {} working as the limitators of
> functions or blocks(as in C or Perl), what we can
> control this is only by indentation, right?

that is correct. Python uses whitespace to group statements.

>
> =====
> Cheers
> -Mindy

-- 
Paul Osman
posman at linux.ca
http://paul.codecipher.com




From -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk  Tue Nov 12 08:02:32 2002
From: -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk (Paul Wright)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 13:02:32 -0000
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
References: <mailman.1037073736.4948.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqqu58$23h$1@verence.demon.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1037073736.4948.python-list at python.org>,
=?big5?q?Terence=20Ng?=  <ngterry2000 at yahoo.com.hk> wrote:
>I guess it cannot consider as spaming if I provide the
>option to remove from the mailing list.

It is spamming if you email people with whom you have no previous business
relationship. It is spamming if you send mail to addresses you have
collected from the web or newsgroups. It is spamming if you subscribe
people to a list using a form on your web page without confirmation that
they wanted to join your list (see
<http://www.mail-abuse.org/nml/methods.html> for details of how
to run a mailing list).

It is still spamming even if you include a remove link, since most
people know that remove links only confirm your address as "live" to a
spammer, who will then spam that address even more.

Doing any of these things will get you into a blacklist like the RBL or
SPEWS <http://www.spews.org/>.

I'm-not-SPEWS-when-there's-an-"R"-in-the-month-ly yours,

-- 
Paul Wright | http://pobox.com/~pw201 |


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Nov 18 14:09:33 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:09:33 +0100
Subject: Berliner Python-Stammtisch 20.12.02 18:00 mit Stollen
References: <2E7096CE-E74E-11D6-8765-00039345C610@darwin.in-berlin.de> <E184hTu-0007pL-00@starship.python.net> <3DB915CB.5080908@tismer.com> <3DBD58CD.2080606@tismer.com> <mailman.1037625092.11246.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arbdvm$h0j$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:12:25 +0100, Christian Tismer
<tismer at tismer.com> wrote:

>... zur Ergreifung weiterer unidentifizierter Pythonen ...

Ist mann im Kreis Aachen noch einigermassen sicher? :-)

Anton.



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Fri Nov  1 01:26:42 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 06:26:42 GMT
Subject: Python 2.1, COM (Excel), and Threads...
References: <24420294.0210311031.18f8b3e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <C8pw9.3622$mN6.1027433@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Stephen" <stephen.tubbs at paretopartners.com> wrote in message
news:24420294.0210311031.18f8b3e0 at posting.google.com...
> Hi -
>
>    I am trying to get a threaded job server running that will thread
> scripts to manipulate various MS office apps.

running various MS office apps automatically can also be a recipe for
disaster.  Word, in particular, can only have one instance going at a time
else it will do all the work into the same document.  that is, if there are
2 scripts automating word they will both be automating the same document,
and likely crashing it.

to this end, i have been working on a spooler for word automation.  you can
find the gist at http://ecpspooler.sourceforge.net.  contact me if you are
interested.

-doug




From dag4004 at free.fr  Tue Nov  5 12:25:03 2002
From: dag4004 at free.fr (dag4004)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:25:03 +0100
Subject: Search a SOAP module
Message-ID: <3dc7fe24$0$5127$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Hello,

I search a SOAP module, does some one use some thinks which work ?

Thanks




From dave at boost-consulting.com  Tue Nov 26 19:06:37 2002
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:06:37 -0500
Subject: Python - Boost - Cygwin linker error
References: <bca37bb1.0211231942.24f4c2f5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038236554.11075.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uwumzanaq.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Jason Tishler <jason at tishler.net> writes:

> St?phane,
>
> On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 07:42:28PM -0800, St?phane Vaxelaire wrote:
>> I get an error at link time that appears to occur between Boost code
>> and python lib. Here is the output :

<snip>

> The above can be solved by compiling the code that refers to
> _Py_NoneStruct with -DUSE_DL_IMPORT.  This will cause _Py_NoneStruct to
> be declared so that it can be imported (without auto-import) from the
> Cygwin Python import library.
>
> Note that this occurs automatically for Distutils built shared
> extensions.  If Boost.Python is built using a different mechanism,
> then -DUSE_DL_IMPORT will have to be specified manually.

Naw, Boost.Python's own build mechanism (Boost.Build) also adds
-DUSE_DL_IMPORT automatically for Cygwin. This only happened because
St?phane decided to build things ``manually'' in the first place ;-)

-- 
                       David Abrahams
   dave at boost-consulting.com * http://www.boost-consulting.com
Boost support, enhancements, training, and commercial distribution


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Nov  3 09:54:15 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 15:54:15 +0100
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <aq3dfb$spu$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 1 Nov 2002 23:06:06 -0500, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>So I've been having a friendly argument for a long time with a friend of
>mine who's a real Java booster.  The current iteration was sparked by a
>discussion of extreme programming, where along the way I repeated what
>some people here have mentioned about Python being easier to refactor
>than Java.  She asked me what -- if any -- Java-based tools were used by
>the experienced Java programmers who made that claim.  She thinks that
>those tools are superior to plain text editors (which are really all
>that's needed for Python).
>
>Anyone wanna help me out here?

Three step solution:

1) Eat the food ;-)
2) Write a refactoring tool for Java using Python
3) Ask her for a date

Just my idea of a cure: Do not fight the disease but concentrate on
healthy activities.

Anton.


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Tue Nov 19 12:09:29 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:09:29 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DDA7126.6090308@nyc.rr.com>


A. Lloyd Flanagan wrote:
>>In summary, Lisp's problem is that it had no BDFL.
>>
> 
> Exactly. 

BDFLs are great, but (somehow) Lispers got together and managed to carve 
out Common Lisp and an ANSI spec for it. That's our BDFL.

> In addition, Lisp proponents have historically been
> contemptous of attempts to run efficiently on available hardware,

Well, the present is part of history, so this is wrong. Every CL 
compiles, including optimizations, and in fact some CLs /only/ compile: 
what seems like an interpreter hides compile-on-the-fly.


> In addition, I think Common Lisp killed a lot of Lisp's momentum. 

No, this was important to its second life. It took many microscopic 
communities and made them into one tiny community (which at least has 
the critical mass to survive and support many vendors). And the CL spec, 
like I said, is our BDFL.

> Much of Lisp's power comes from the application of just a few basic
> language elements;

True, but I am not sure I would like to do without in CL.

> CL added an incredible amount of complexity in the
> process of including each and every favorite feature of all the major
> players in the Lisp market.

well, that's how you bring divergent branches back together, but i 
disagree that /a lot/ translates to incredibly complex. I was very 
productive days after starting on CL. All that changed as I learned more 
and more was that my code became better and I became even more productive.

>  Check out Guy Steele's Common Lisp. 
> Python has the power but hasn't (yet at least) been drowned in
> complexity.

Give it time. :)

btw, I am here because I just started porting a little CL hack of mine 
to Python, thought I'd check out clp.

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From wurmy at earthlink.net  Mon Nov  4 18:32:47 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 23:32:47 GMT
Subject: Str and instance concatanation error
References: <R_Cx9.11472$t91.80221380@news-text.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <3DC70515.4050709@earthlink.net>

Newt wrote:

>   File "D:\py_stuff\globals.py", line 96, in save_char
>     file.write('<creator>' + self.creator + '</creator>')
> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'instance' objects

The error says it all: '<creator>' and '</creator>' are strings, self.creator 
is not. They cannot be concatenated. Use something like str(self.creator) if 
possible. Or, in self.creator's class, define __add__ and __radd__ methods that 
allow concatenating of strings.

HTH,

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA=='))
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/
Kaa:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/kaa.html



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov  3 15:30:01 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 15:30:01 -0500
Subject: Parsing & question about usages off classes!
References: <docx9.172161$Mf5.8344841@Flipper>
Message-ID: <3dc58764@news.sentex.net>

Frans wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I want to put each line off a logfile in a different class. But I cant 
> seem to, dynamicly, create new classes. I am having problems using 
> variables when creating new classes.
> 
> class TEST:
>     pass
> 
> x=0
> while x < 10:
>     A + "" + x = TEST()
>     x=x+1
> 
> Something like that is what I want :)
> 
> Having A1 A2 A3 A4 etc. etc. as TEST classes.

Building on Alex' good advice, here's what you
really wanted to do (I'm guessing) in the first
place.  You may need to learn more about Python
to make use of these results:

myObjects = {}
for x in range(10):
    myObjects['A' + str(x)] = TEST()

print myObjects
print myObjects['A6']

OR this one, where they don't each get their own "name":

myObjects = []
for x in range(10):
    myObjects.append(TEST())

print myObjects
print myObjects[3]


If this looks remotely like what you wanted, then you should know
you are not creating new *classes*, but only new instances of
the one class, or new "objects".

You might also want to go back and rethink the whole approach.
You say you want each line to go into a different "object" (if
I may rephrase your request), but what do you plan to do with
those objects?  Maybe you can take a simpler approach to getting
the task done.  What's your goal?

-Peter



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Nov 21 11:16:47 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:16:47 -0600
Subject: Does Python (or psyco) already do this optimisation?
In-Reply-To: <3DDC9BA9.9070309@rogers.com>
References: <mailman.1037861909.23049.python-list@python.org>
        <m3n0o3uz8h.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
        <3DDC9BA9.9070309@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <15837.1775.356901.890797@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Mike> Any idea (anyone) whether the outlined approach has been attempted
    Mike> for global-variable access optimisation?  i.e. is this an explored
    Mike> and deemed-dead path, or something new?

Check PEPs 266 and 267.  I don't think it's necessarily dead-end.  It's
proven to be a damned hard problem so far though.  Jeremy and I led a
developer's day session on optimization at the February 2002 Python
conference.  Jeremy's approach has come much farther than mine since then
(as in I didn't do anything).  Check the python-dev archives for the
February-April 2002 timeframe for more discussion on the subject.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From Padraig at Linux.ie  Mon Nov 11 07:59:55 2002
From: Padraig at Linux.ie (Padraig Brady)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:59:55 GMT
Subject: referencing disjoint array indexes
References: <DnNz9.11696$cP3.22276@news.iol.ie> <slrnasv9f1.l8.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <3DCFA951.5030003@Linux.ie>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> In article <DnNz9.11696$cP3.22276 at news.iol.ie>, Padraig Brady wrote:
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>Is there any way you can do something like
>>
>>size, mtime = os.stat()[8,6]
> 
> If there isn't any better way, you can easily implement a little helper function yourself:
> 
>>>>def seqfromidxs(seq, *idxs):
>>>
> ...   lst = []
> ...   for idx in idxs:
> ...     lst.append(seq[idx])
> ...   return lst
> ...

Well you should probably return a tuple rather than a list?
But problems with this is that you do it manually (slow/messy).
Also it doesn't support slicing.

In general it would by nice (IMHO) to support:

size, times = os.stat("/bin/vi")[6,7:]

Maybe it's crud, but I've found myself wishing the
functionality was there a few times (not just for os.stat).

thanks,
P?draig.



From kalmas at udm.ru  Sat Nov  2 01:29:56 2002
From: kalmas at udm.ru (Oleg Leschov)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 06:29:56 GMT
Subject: threading questions
Message-ID: <apvrd4$a5b$1@ocasysi.rubbernet.net>

Using python 2.2,
I am trying to implement fairly stable application in Python that is heavily
relies on threads. There are currently two problems I have with this task.
1. I want to be able, using whatever the threading.get_ident() returns (perhaps),
to determine the state of thread (does it still run or not), and to kill the
thread, in case that it, for example, is waiting for some data from socket whose
network interface has died unexpectedly.
For now I rely on the behavior of linux, where when main thread quits, all its
children threads are also being killed. But to me, it would be nicer to kill them
by hand..
2. I want to process user interrupt (ctrl-c), which does not work at all while
running multiple threads, by setting some event so that main thread would quit.
How do I register handler for this?
btw, are there any signals available on windows, and if yes, where are they
listed?


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Nov  4 17:18:21 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 23:18:21 +0100
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
References: <mailman.1036428738.6509.python-list@python.org> <j4znsp2po0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Up80dLADGtx9EwVK@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m3fzuhrnbm.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> well I'll gladly contribute testing/examples, but my documentation
> skills are minimal if not negative. Also I have precisely two working
> examples to boast about.
> 
> Are there competing proposals for this kind of functionality?

All that is needed is a description of what Brian's patches do, in the
same style that libsimplexmlrpc.tex uses.

Regards,
Martin


From ken at perfect-image.com  Wed Nov  6 12:35:57 2002
From: ken at perfect-image.com (Ken Godee)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:35:57 -0700
Subject: wxPython or PyQt
In-Reply-To: <m2lm4661nh.fsf@boiko_linux.demogr.mpg.de>
Message-ID: <3DC8F08B.16542.D93852@localhost>

Serge,
I've just been going thru this same question myself
trying to decide which way to go. wxPython / PyQt and
have decided to go the PyQt way for my first adventures
in python/GUI. I've both running on my system now
Here's a couple of things I've noted.....

wxPython is a wrapper around wxWindows which is a wrapper
around (ie.) GTK.
PyQt is a wrapper around Qt.
Installing and Compiling all the way to wxPython was a pain.

There's really no "free" ide like qtdesigner in wxPython.
PyQt's code seems cleaner and easier to translate the
c++ doc's.

PyQt's (Qt) widgets seem better, ie... take a look at the "MDI" for
both, opps, you can't, there isn't one for wxPython running on Linux
only for win. ie. wx only takes on the native look and feel of the base
system vs Qt's builtin themeable designs, etc......

I think your right, the lic. issues was the hardest thing that keep
drawing me back and forth when trying to decide between the two.
But.... when I really thought about it, I'll really be working only on linux
anyway.

The user base for wxPython is quite good and is being updating.

Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing what other people thing too.

> Hi, guys, 
> I'm a user of PyQt and I believe this library is very nice, it
> supports Xft, it has very flexible signal-slots mechanism, and
> enormous collection of widgets and other useful classes, but I
> noticed that many projects use wxPython instead.
> 
> What are the advantages of wxPython over PyQt or it's just a matter of
> licensing policies: wxPython is free on every platform it supports,
> meanwhile PyQt (or Qt) is completely free only under X?
> 
> Looking forward to hearing from you.
> 
> -Serge
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 





From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 28 14:48:44 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:48:44 -0800
Subject: Name of current method
References: <pan.2002.11.28.20.26.03.172820.727@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <3DE6731C.D989C931@alcyone.com>

Thomas Guettler wrote:

> How can I get the name of the method which is
> executed?
> 
> Example:
> 
> def mymethod(self):
>         print self.__magic__
> 
> --> "mymethod"

Function (and thus method) objects have a __name__ attribute (at least
in Python 2.2.2) which can be used.  But instead you seem to want to be
inside a method inside some class and decide where you are.  I'm not
aware of any builtin facility for this, but obviously you could do it
manually:

	class SomeClass:

	    ...

	    def myMethod(self, ...):
	        self.where = 'myMethod'
	        ...

	    def myOtherMethod(self, ...):
	        self.where = 'myOtherMethod'

	    ...

But this approach obviously isn't very elegant.  It sounds like if you
think you need this facility, there's probably a better way to
accomplish whatever it is you're setting out to do.  What exactly do you
think you need this for?

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Some mistakes we must carry with us.
\__/ Speaker-to-Animals
    Blackgirl International / http://www.blackgirl.org/
 The Internet resource for black women.


From markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de  Fri Nov 29 05:48:57 2002
From: markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de (Markus von Ehr)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:48:57 +0100
Subject: py2exe and PIL prob
Message-ID: <3DE74619.497CB50C@ipm.fhg.de>

Hi,

I am opening an image using PIL with:

from Image import *

self.mi = open(filename)

Everything is alright opening the images in two different programs.
After using py2exe I have two cases/errors:
1.

File "Tkinter.pyc", line 1285, in __call__
File "corr.pyc", line 178, in openImage
File "Image.pyc", line 949, in open
File "Image.pyc", line 204, in init
File "ntpath.pyc", line 408, in abspath
File "imputil.pyc", line 98 in _import_hook
File "<string>", line 52, in _import_top_module
File "imputil.pyc", line 207, in _import_top
File "imputil.pyc", line 258, in _import_one
File "<string>", line 161, in get_code
File "Image.pyc", line 927, in open
ValueError: bad mode

2.
Another program:
Exception in TKinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "Tkinter.pyc", line 1285, in __call__
File "BioChip.pyc", line 260, in Load
File "Image.pyc", line 960, in open
IOError: cannot identify image file

So everything is OK with the unpacked program, but after using py2exe
it doesn't work any more.
What can I do then? I want to create a shipping version.

Any hints?

Markus


From patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au  Sun Nov 10 20:41:00 2002
From: patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au (Patrick W)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 12:41:00 +1100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <ff133276.0211091535.47871cf2@posting.google.com> <aqkdoq$db6$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <87of8wkhn7.fsf@key.localdomain>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> It's exactly BECAUSE every newcomer longs for some weird set of feechurs 
> that are better done without, that a language that lets such newcomers add 
> all the weird things, changing the language itself and turning it from a 
> (hopefully) well-designed whole to a hodge-podge, is not going to be 
> popular with the masses.  Some brilliant individuals -- a tiny minority -- 
> are no doubt going to use such power wonderfully well, building several 
> different complex, specialized languages.  The rest of us, the vast 
> majority of the human race, is BY FAR best served by having to use one 
> well-designed language rather than by letting each make up their own.
> 
> *Simplicity* is an often-forgotten but nevertheless crucial criterion of 
> good design.  A slightly harder-to-express but also important criterion is 
> *unity of vision* -- a system should feel like an integrated whole, not as 
> a disparate jumble of parts.  Python meets both criteria.  I believe that 
> introducing powerful-enough macros to Python would make it more likely than 
> not for most programmers to break both criteria, and thereby probably doom 
> Python, too, to eventual obscurity.

I agree with everything you say here w.r.t. Python. I think it's a
wonderfully simple and powerful language, and its design is in good
hands. I don't particularly expect or want Python to acquire a macro
facility. I like it just as it is.

With regard to Lisp, though, I don't believe that macros preclude
simplicity or unity of vision, provided they're used sparingly and
intelligently. An average programmer can make a horrible mess with
macros, true enough. But the other side of the coin is that an
intelligent language designer (or group of designers) can design and
implement new macros that blend seamlessly with the existing
language. The base language can be adapted and extended to support new
programming styles (or paradigms) as they arise, without the need to
rewrite the core language and the guts of its implementation. These
new macros can be standardised and used by mere mortals (like me) in
due course.

For application programmers, I don't see macros as a huge selling
point. I tend to think of Lisp as an extremely powerful and pleasant
high-level language, much like Python, but with a different set of
strengths and weaknesses.

When you say that a (Python) macro system might eventually doom Python
to obscurity (too!), you may be right. I don't want to argue
that. However, the implication that Lisp is (already) doomed to
obscurity (if that's indeed what you meant), is very questionable. I
think it's way too early to call.

My own hunch is that, fifty years from now, there will be no
programming language or data representation notation that closely
resembles any of today's popular languages, BUT there will probably be
something that resembles Lisp. That is, unless we make unexpected
advances in how programming is done, there will still be a language in
which code and data are interchangeable, a language that can
manipulate itself in itself, and extend its core functionality without
needing to be redesigned and reimplemented.

I think you're absolutely right when you say that simplicity is a
crucial criterion of good design. Unlike most people (it seems), I
believe Lisp possesses this innate beauty and simplicity. Common Lisp
is a *large* language, to be sure, but I don't believe it is
complicated in the way that, say, C++ is complicated. It has a simple
core, and a lot of powerful functionality flowers out from that simple
core, just like an intricate mandala or fractal pattern is created out
simple motifs.

Lisp and Python are my two favourite languages today, by a long
shot. I enjoy them both for different reasons (lots of overlapping
ones too). I suspect that many Pythonistas would have a *lot* of fun
with Lisp. Python fits our brains, partly because it is built on
already-familiar concepts but allows us to work some black magic as
well. Lisp does this too but, if you're so inclined, it's a great
language for extending and maybe reconfiguring your (programming)
brain in new directions.

Personally: if I have a job to do, I use Python wherever
possible. It's fun, convenient, easy, and it has all the libraries I
need. If I have an unusual idea that I'd like to experiment with, I
use Lisp or Python, depending on the idea.

>From a non-personal perspective, though, I believe that Lisp offers
more potential for real innovations in the way we will represent and
manipulate "knowledge" in the future. 


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Nov 27 00:23:34 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:23:34 +1100
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A79A@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Grant Edwards [mailto:grante at visi.com]
> 
> Technically, you can do everything with nothing but binary 
> NAND operators,
> so things like addition, subraction, etc. aren't really required. That
> doesn't make it a good idea to eliminate things just because 
> they can be
> replace by more complicated sets of operations.  

Hey - there ain't nothin' less complicated than a binary NAND ... ;)

Tim Delaney



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Nov 15 11:30:03 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:30:03 +0000
Subject: wrapping all class methods
In-Reply-To: <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com>
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com>
Message-ID: <WWaEyKALES19EwHw@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In message <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists at mceahern.com>, Mark
McEahern <marklists at mceahern.com> writes
>[Robin Becker]
>> What's the 'proper' pythonic way to do this kind of global wrapping?
>

Thanks very much for the pointer, I'll have a look.

>Hi Robin, I don't know the answer, but I think aspect-oriented programming
>provides some ideas.  Pedro Rodriguez has posted working code for doing AOP
>to the list:
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2002.01.22.15.52.49.832551.1637%40c
>lub-internet.fr
>
>Perhaps, if nothing else, Pedro's code may give you some ideas?  I'd be very
>interested to hear what you come up with.
>
>What you're trying to do can be done with metaclasses fairly easily--but
>that requires (afaik) modifying the modules you want to wrap.  Which makes
>it not a very good strategy for AOP (as Pedro has pointed out).  See this
>thread:
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1025278420.26105.python-list%40
>python.org
>
>Cheers,
>
>// mark
>
>-
>
>

-- 
Robin Becker



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov  6 14:11:15 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:11:15 -0800
Subject: idiom for initialising variables
References: <3dc964fa$0$12989@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <3DC96953.3BFF23EB@alcyone.com>

Rob Hall wrote:

> I'm just wondering on the correct python idiom for initialising
> variables.
> I see some code like this:
> 
> class myClass:
>     self.a = 1
>     def __init__(self):
>         ...more stuff here

This is illegal.  You probably meant:

	class MyClass:
	    a = 1
	    def __init__(self): ...

> class myClass
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.a = 1
>         ...more stuff here
> 
> Which is the correct idiom?  or is there a subtle difference I am
> missing?

In the former corrected version, the variable a is a class variable;
that is, it's shared by all instances.  In the latter, it's an instance
variable, and is specific only to one instance.

>>> class C:
...  s = 1
...  def __init__(self, x):
...   self.x = x
... 
>>> c1 = C(2)
>>> c2 = C(3)
>>> c1.x
2
>>> c2.x
3
>>> c1.s
1
>>> c2.s
1
>>> C.s = 10 # note: changing the class variable, not an instance one
>>> c1.s
10
>>> c2.s
10

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ God grant me to contend with those that understand me.
\__/ Thomas Fuller
    Polly Wanna Cracka? / http://www.pollywannacracka.com/
 The Internet resource for interracial relationships.


From jfontain at free.fr  Tue Nov 12 07:03:39 2002
From: jfontain at free.fr (Jean-Luc Fontaine)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 04:03:39 -0800
Subject: ANNOUNCE: tclpython-2.1
Message-ID: <4244613b.0211120403.3766711b@posting.google.com>

### CHANGES ###

--- version 2.1 ---
- tclpython2 renamed to tclpython and updated for Python 2.2.1 as found
  in a Redhat 8.0 distribution
- tclpython (for Python 1.5) dropped
- prevent automatic 'import site' on a new thread, since it makes the
  program hang

errors from Python were not always caught and properly reported to the
  Tcl interpreter
tclpython2 binary rpm was wrongly compiled against another
  installation on my computer, which caused string I/O module loading
  failure and a core dump

### README ###

tclpython version 2.1: a Python package for Tcl

This package allows the execution of Python (version 2.2) code from a
Tcl interpreter, as in:


    package require tclpython
    set interpreter [python::interp new]
    $interpreter eval {print("Hello World")}
    python::interp delete $interpreter


You can actually create several Python interpreters this way, if the
tclpython package was linked against a Python library compiled with
threads support, otherwise only 1 Python interpreter can exist at a
time.

This library is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU Library General Public License as
published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the
License, or (at your option) any later version.

This library is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

###

you may find it now at my homepage:

http://jfontain.free.fr/tclpython-2.1.tar.gz
http://jfontain.free.fr/tclpython-2.1-1.i386.rpm
http://jfontain.free.fr/tclpython-2.1-1.spec
http://jfontain.free.fr/tclpython.htm

Jean-Luc Fontaine (http://jfontain.free.fr/)


From rkempf at rightnow.com  Fri Nov 22 12:10:43 2002
From: rkempf at rightnow.com (Kempf, Reed)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:10:43 -0700
Subject: very large inserts
Message-ID: <D408B6AC060DB24790622E1A54204DB00A3CB2BA@xchange.rightnowtech.com>

Thanks for the input and I looked into it and I believe that the executemany
basically simulates a for loop when doing inserts.  It still does the
inserts one by one instead of one massive insert which you can do in mysql.

I do not believe this is possible in dealing with an oracle database is
because of rollback segments.  If you were able to do a massive insert such
as:

insert into table (col1, col2, col3, col4)
       values (1,2,3,4),(2,3,4,5),(3,4,5,6),(4,5,6,7);

You would have to rollback the whole insert statement which would include
all of the rows plus the mysql insert statement is not ANSI complient.  The
last statement problable sums up the problems I am having.

oh well, I was just looking for a cheap and dirty python trick to get around
this.

Thanks

ReedK

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike C. Fletcher [mailto:mcfletch at rogers.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 1:30 PM
To: Kempf, Reed
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: very large inserts


Isn't that what the executemany method in DBAPI is intended to allow?

*executemany*(operation,seq_of_parameters)
    Prepare a database operation (query or command) and then execute it
    against all parameter sequences or mappings found in the sequence
    |seq_of_parameters|.

    Modules are free to implement this method using multiple calls to
    the |execute()| method or by using array operations to have the
    database process the sequence as a whole in one call.

That is, the DB may optimise it, or it may have to go through execute, 
but this is where the optimisation comes if it's available.  If I 
understand correctly, you'd create a parameterised insert:

    insert = """INSERT INTO table (col1, col2, col3, col4) values (%1, 
%2, %3, %4)"""

And then call executemany( insert, my_values_list )

Good luck,
Mike


Kempf, Reed wrote:

>Hello,
>
>My name is Reed and I am new to the list as of today.  I have been working
>with python for about 6 months and I have an issue where I am stumped.
>
>My background is in python, pl/sql and oracle database management with a
>touch of mysql database management.
>
>Anyway, I know in mysql you can do a bulk insert or an insert where you can
>insert many records with one insert statement like this:
>
>MYSQL - insert into table (col1, col2, col3, col4)
>        values (1,2,3,4),(2,3,4,5),(3,4,5,6),(4,5,6,7);
>
>In oracle, you would have to do 1 insert at a time unless you are using
>pl/sql in which you can do a bulk insert (as far as I know).
>
>ORACLE - insert into table (col1, col2, col3, col4)
>         values (1,2,3,4);
>         insert into table (col1, col2, col3, col4)
>         values (2,3,4,5); and so forth.......
>
>My question is, can python simulate a mysql bulk insert in python?
>
>I am running a linux distribution 6.2 with kernel 2.4.17 and oracle 8.1.7.4
>patch set.  I am also using python 2.1.  Currently in my python script I
>loop through a python dictionary and build an insert statement which I then
>pass through a connection to update oracle and move onto the next python
>dictionary key.  
>
>This works but I would sincerely like to build one very large insert
>statement and pass it to the oracle connection all at once.  This is an
>issue for me since I am going through sqlnet and across a VPN to update the
>oracle database.  The less cursors I pass through the connection, the
>better.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>ReedK
>
>
>  
>

-- 
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/




-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From theller at python.net  Fri Nov 15 09:00:51 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 15:00:51 +0100
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org> <yu99u1ijeehm.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <7h3d6p7xelx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <adkbqbc4.fsf@python.net> <7h3u1ijvv9q.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <vg2zoru4.fsf@python.net>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:
> 
> > Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:
> > 
> > > C without it's library would get a rating of "useless"... guess this
> > > is true for most languages, but C more than most.
> > > 
> > Not at all, imo. You just have to write the library yourself,
> > and you *can* do it in C.
> 
> I guess... but not portably, surely?

Ok, you need a core library of system calls, but then you go.  As
opposed to Pascal, for example, which I was using when I discovered
C. Mainly, because 'write' is a statement (or special syntax), and cannot
be written in Pascal itself.

> Anyway, it meant to be a serious comment,

I didn't doubt that

> just the observation that C
> puts very little into the language and (relatively speaking) more in
> the stdlib.

And this is IMO what they did right.

Thomas


From rmunn at pobox.com  Thu Nov 14 17:43:36 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:43:36 GMT
Subject: Open and reading a file...
References: <clUA9.14453$md7.1204247@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <slrnat8a11.rng.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Marlon Rea <mrea at commerceworks.on.ca> wrote:
>     Can someone help me with opening and reading a file???? THANK YOU ALL

The most common operations:

file_object = file('somefile.txt', 'r')  # 'r' for read, 'w' for write
file_object = open('somefile.txt', 'r')  # In Python 2.1 or earlier
buf = file_object.read()  # Slurp the whole file at once. OR...
lines = file_object.readlines()  # Split whole file into lines. OR...
for line in file_object.xreadlines():  # Only one line at a time. OR...
    do_something_with(line)
for line in file:  # Same as above, Python 2.2 and greater
    do_something_with(line)

More information on file objects:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/bltin-file-objects.html

Let us know if you have any more questions that this answer didn't cover.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net  Sat Nov  2 08:13:18 2002
From: jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net (Joe Block)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 13:13:18 GMT
Subject: Newbie want Python CGI on Mac OS X10.2
References: <mailman.1036085671.11687.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jpb-DEFDED.08131402112002@newsr1.tampabay.rr.com>

In article <mailman.1036085671.11687.python-list at python.org>,
 sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

> > From: Mel Bohince [mailto:melbohince at attbi.com]
> > 
> > I'm suspicious of the first line:
> > #!/usr/lib/python  I've tried #!/usr/lib/ python, #!/usr/bin/python,
> > #!/usr/bin/env python
> > 
> > what exactly is this to be?
> > 
> 
> Ehh, good reason to be suspicious about it!
> It's a specially-formatted comment, and it indicates
> the pathname of the interpreter. You have to look
> exactly where the "python" executable you need is,
> and place that full pathname after the "#!".

#! /usr/bin/python works fine on OS X 10.2 for me.

jpb


From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov  5 10:49:57 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:49:57 GMT
Subject: Textbooks on Perl/Python
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036226184.12174.python-list@python.org> <niNw9.75632$TD1.3404688@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <m27kfsm2x8.fsf@python.net>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> if and when a student manages to work all through it, I think the
> student WILL feel pretty confident in their mastery of the subject.

("it" is Deitel & Deitel's Python : How To Program)

My concern was that the student might feel confident in the subject
after reading the book, but that this might not be justified.  It does
cover a huge amount of material, but not with enormous depth (at
least, not in the chapters *I* tech reviewed).

It's also expensive, if you were one of the three or four regular
posters to this list who didn't get a review copy :)

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  [3] Modem speeds being what they are, large .avi files were
      generally downloaded to the shell server instead[4].
  [4] Where they were usually found by the technical staff, and
      burned to CD.                                   -- Carlfish, asr


From shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 18:37:59 2002
From: shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com (Richard Dillingham)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:37:59 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <eCeC9.26263$744.955879@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <rReC9.17366$0U1.1726665@news2.east.cox.net>

> It's better written as:
>
> if coords[0]<=posx<=coords[2] and coords[1]<=posy<=coords[3]:

Hmm.... I just tried that, and am quite amazed to find that it actually
works.




From cjw at sympatico.ca  Fri Nov 22 11:34:16 2002
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:34:16 -0500
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <mailman.1037978671.1842.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDE5C88.CA8E249@sympatico.ca>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20021122/6b7b6ded/attachment.html>

From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 14 10:07:53 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:07:53 GMT
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <mailman.1037224700.11546.python-list@python.org> <m3ptt9p0rw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <ar0cso$iua$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <7h3r8doxkem.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:

> But I can't seem to get past sourceforge. 
> 
> It's not that I couldn't get past the sourceforge barrier if I would
> like to do so but having to identify myself using a 128 bits security
> key conflicts with my - maybe naive - notion of not looking a given
> horse in the mouth. 

The main reason we want you to log in is so we have some chance of
giving feedback.  There were too many occasions (bugs in particular)
where anonymous reporters were asked for more information and failed
to give it.

Bug reporting and patch submission is a two way process -- knowing who
the other end is is a great help.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Enlightenment is probably antithetical to impatience.
                                        -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp


From andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no  Sun Nov 24 12:23:30 2002
From: andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_N=E6ss?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:23:30 +0000
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> </oP49ks/KPIR089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <arr1uj$srh$1@maud.ifi.uio.no>

Mel Wilson wrote:

> In article <arqm0r$s6f$1 at maud.ifi.uio.no>,
> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_N=E6ss?= <andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no> wrote:
>>When I started learning Python one of the things that surprised me was
>>that you couldn't do assignments inside the if clause, e.g.:
>>
>>if myvar = someFunction():
>>
>>My question is, what is the rationale for this? Is it a technical issue?
>>Or purely a matter of language design? I'm curious because I'm interested
>>in the design og programming languages, not because I want this behavior
>>changed in Pyton :)
> 
>    We've just been there. groups.google.com can bring it all
> back, although I don't offhand remember the subject.

Ah, thanks, I found the (a?) thread, and it proved an interesting read.

(The subject was: "Conditional Expressions don't solve the problem")

Andr? N?ss


From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Sat Nov 23 12:16:48 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:16:48 +0100
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
In-Reply-To: <m2hee88dvx.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>; from jdhunter@ace.bsd.uchicago.edu on Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 10:11:30AM -0600
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net> <743utuoi3l31t8e8tt9v3sncosuk2gqi02@4ax.com> <1239.92T1047T4844497threeseas@earthlink.net> <m2hee88dvx.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <20021123181648.M11257@prim.han.de>

John Hunter wrote:
> >>>>> "Timothy" == Timothy Rue <threeseas at earthlink.net> writes:
> [...]
> "variables" in python are a little different than in other programming
> languages.  python has "names" for objects.  This example illustrates
> one of the initially surprising ways names work
> 
>   x = []
>   y = []

of course you mean

    x = y = []

>   x.append(1)
>   print y
> 
> x and y are just names for the same object (the empty list).  When you
> change that object referring to it by the name 'x', the changes are
> seen when you refer to it by it's other name 'y'.  So y now equals
> [1].

regards,

    holger



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Nov 28 03:36:40 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 09:36:40 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <tyfy97ew0o7.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> > 
> >> But what I'd really like before I try Lisp again is a special
> >> color-highlighting mode 

[...]

> >> where each indentation level would be a different color (foreground?
> >> background?).
> > 
> > ... Just curious ... have you ever felt the need for such an
> > indentation-based colour-highlighting feature when programming in
> > Python?
> > 
> > If so, has the lack of it hindered you from programming in Python ?
> > 
> > If not, what makes you think that it would be useful in Lisp?
> 
> What I'm going off of here is my memory of having to count and re-count
> parentheses as I was writing to make sure that I was putting in the
> right number of closing parens to finish a structure.

To me, this sounds very much like "... my memory of having to count
and recount all the spaces, when programming in Python, to make sure
that my blocks lined up."

> With color-highlighting, I could at least be certain *at a glance*
> of which paren was lining up with which.

I still fail to see why you think colour highlighting is necessary, or
even useful for this. Emacs highlights matching parentheses, brackets
and braces for me. I would find it hard to believe that other editors
do not have such capabilities. (If your editor cannot provide such a
feature, well, it might be time to reconsider your choice of editor.)

> Yes, I know I could use % in vi, and that there is some equivalent
> function in emacs, but that would be much slower than just seeing
> it.

I don't understand the distinction. The cursor is at some parenthesis;
the matching parenthesis is highlighted. I see it. It's immediate. I
can't imagine anything faster.

> And the reason for it is because I still don't understand how to
> indent *properly* in Lisp, and can't find a good reference on how to
> indent properly.

Follow the advice you yourself gave upthread: trust the editor on
indentation.

> Color highlighting would at least give me the visual cues I need
> until I learn to indent.

Sorry, I still don't get this one. (My editor's indentation and paren
matching features give me all the visual cues I need.)

> Out of time. Must go.

Ditto :-)


From grisha at modpython.org  Fri Nov 15 13:29:14 2002
From: grisha at modpython.org (Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:29:14 -0500
Subject: OS X/Darwin dynamic loading expert question
Message-ID: <20021115132006.O75349-100000@eden.ispol.com>

Hi -

Perhaps some darwin/next/osx guru can answer this:

Why is it that time.so loads fine when python is running from the command
line, but when running from mod_python, I get this:

ImportError: Failure linking new module: : dyld: /Users/grisha/www/bin/httpd Undefined symbols:
/sw/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/time.so undefined reference to _PyArg_Parse expected to be defined in the executable
/sw/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/time.so undefined reference to _PyArg_ParseTuple expected to be defined in the executable
/sw/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/time.so undefined reference to _PyDict_GetItemString expected to be defined in the executable
/sw/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/time.so undefined reference to _PyDict_


This is Python 2.2.1, but I used dynload_next.c from Python 2.3 (which has
more verbose error reporting, but still doesn't work).

I am using the fink distribution (which I patched with a new
dynload_next.c). It creates a libpython2.2.dylib which mod_python uses.

This is on OS X 10.2.2 is this matters.

mod_python.so in this case is a mach-o bundle, which gets dynamically
loaded by httpd.

Any ideas are more than appreciated. If you need more detail, contact me
off-list.

Grisha



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Nov  4 23:49:20 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:49:20 +1100 
Subject: bug report w\o registering
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A719@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl [mailto:anton at vredegoor.doge.nl]
> 
> Here's a bug report. I don't want to register at SourceForge now
> (browser settings etc.). Sorry for the inconvenience.

If you do not submit to sourceforge, the bug report *will* be lost.

In any case, this is not a bug - it is documented behaviour. The order of
the parameters and return values of os.popen2 and popen2.popen2 are
different.

Tim Delaney



From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 26 19:22:49 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 00:22:49 GMT
Subject: Making termios.tcdrain() work with threads?
References: <3de3c3ad$0$22225$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <as0joa$1jsc$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <3de3de67$0$4464$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <as0vjp$8c2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3de41059$0$22175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <as0vjp$8c2$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>, Donn Cave wrote:

>|        if (s == -1)
>|            return PyErr_SetFromErrno(TermiosError);
[...]
>| But, before I submit a patch, I've noticed that TermiosError is
>| a single, static object (file scope):
>|
>|     static PyObject *TermiosError;
>|
>| Is this going to cause problems if multiple threads have to
>| return errors from the termios methods?
> 
> Don't think so!
> 
> PyEND_ALLOW_THREADS waits for the interpreter lock, so there's
> only one thread at a time past that point.  PyErr_SetFromErrno
> should tuck that data into the thread specific state before
> control gets to the ceval loop where another thread could take
> over.  And I wouldn't think you'd be modifying TermiosError
> anyway.

I wasn't sure what PyErr_SetFromErrno was doing.  I was
concerned that it might be modifying and returning the
TermiosError object somehow.

> As long as 's' is automatic (stack/register) storage, you're
> fine.

It is.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. I see TOILET
                                  at               SEATS...
                               visi.com            


From gkrause at psipenta.com  Wed Nov  6 03:30:10 2002
From: gkrause at psipenta.com (Gernot Krause)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:30:10 +0100
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on AIX 4.3.3 / AIX 5.1
References: <3dc40e9c_2@news.vo.lu> <aq5j8o$t7i$1@innferno.news.tiscali.de> <aq5jfi$t9a$1@innferno.news.tiscali.de> <3dc6d402_1@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <aqaipv$2n35$1@innferno.news.tiscali.de>

Hi,
you need a ANSI C compiler and  the sources from python 2.2.
Unpack the archive into temporary directory.
Then call:
% ./configure
Control the output from configure.
Afther this edit the File <pythonsrc>/Modules/Setup and enable/disable
external packages which you need.
Then call:
%make
and
%make install

MfG

    Gernot
> anything special to do, or just the usual "dance" ?
> I've never done it before, but hope to do so ASAP with a local UNIX system
> engineer.





From rmunn at pobox.com  Sun Nov 17 14:46:03 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:46:03 GMT
Subject: Reading Bluebird/Superdos Index files
References: <mailman.1037552607.23200.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnatfsnt.7ah.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

jmp <jmpurser at attbi.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> My company has a legacy application originally coded in Business Basic for
> the SuperDos operating system by BlueBird.  I can read the data files but
> the index files are a problem.  I've tried the whichdb module and got an
> empty string.
> 
> Has anyone else run up against this format or can you give me some
> suggestions for deciphering the structure of these index files?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John Purser

I have no personal experience with this type of file, but Wotsit's Format
(http://www.wotsit.org/) often has information about obscure file types.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From Jeff.Dubois at westgroup.com  Thu Nov 14 16:29:44 2002
From: Jeff.Dubois at westgroup.com (Dubois, Jeff)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:29:44 -0600
Subject: tkinter - tk window remains
Message-ID: <C5723FF8C56CD5119606000347417D890566AF8C@eg-msgmbx-a12.int.westgroup.com>

   
  I am using Tkinter to bring up a ScrolledText window. 
  However, when the user closes the window by clicking on the X button in
the upper right of the ScrolledText window the "tk" window remains.  Based
on documentation I have read I have tried using the .withdraw() method in
hopes the tk window would disappear.  However the tk window still remains.
The code I am using is:

                rootWin = Tk()
                rootWin.withdraw()
                st = ScrolledText(master=rootWin)
                st.pack(side=TOP, expand=1, fill=BOTH)
                st.insert(END, "\n\n\n\n       THIS IS MAIN WINDOW!\n")
                rootWin.mainloop()

  I am using python2.1 on an Windows NT operating system.

  Any ideas on how to fix this?
  Thanks!

  Jeff

  




From roy at panix.com  Sun Nov 10 12:30:16 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:30:16 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqlos7$66p$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <qpwz9.16127$oC3.1394670@news010.worldonline.dk> <3dce96ad$0$12451$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <roy-F3613B.12301610112002@reader1.panix.com>

Jens Axel Sogaard <usenet at jasoegaard.dk> wrote:
> I can't remember a link - but if you want to Google for them,
> they were calles M-expressions.

Not (plus s 1) expressions? :-)


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Thu Nov  7 10:21:30 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:21:30 -0600 
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302CAE8D4@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: David Brown [mailto:david at no.westcontrol.spam.com]
> 
> "Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl>
> 
> > Please stop trying not to start a flame war.
> 
> Meaning please start one?
> 

Liberally sprinkled with negatives, it gives us:

"Please Don't Stop Not Trying Not To Not Start A Flame War"

which is almost but not quite exactly unlike the original
meaning.  Sounds like a telegraph.

-gustavo

pd: Have a nice thursday! ;-)



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov 12 08:23:25 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 14:23:25 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> Is there a source form example of the py docs,
> and perhaps a statement of what is required of the processing?

Please have a look at

http://www.python.org/doc/current/doc/doc.html

for a specification of the Python documentation format. There are
certainly many examples for that, see the Doc directory of the Python
distibution or CVS.

>   Just to take a look at producing docbook from that,
> and to see if XML/XSLT/XSL-FO processing chain could do the job 
> please?

What is your question?

Regards,
Martin


From member at dbforums.com  Sat Nov  9 21:14:49 2002
From: member at dbforums.com (Tetsuo)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:14:49 +0000
Subject: Web based interface
References: <2027692.1036809220@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <2029571.1036894489@dbforums.com>

Thanks for all the advise. I got Apache and that module, but Apache
won't run. We had problems with Web servers, but my mom figured out that
localhost got renamed to something else snd got another server to run.
But Apache just won't run. My mom tried to connect and it can't. We
probably didn't install it right. I'll try again tomorrow.

Why, o why don't I have money for a new comp? Everything would
work there...

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov  4 07:48:49 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:48:49 GMT
Subject: Need simple algorithm for newbie
References: <d1a9617c.0211040433.1eddb118@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <R0ux9.69104$aL4.2127754@news1.tin.it>

Jason Tudisco wrote:

> I have a list of domains... Some of the domain names in the list look
> like this:
> 
> groups.goodle.com
> 
> The information I want is just google.com. I need to know the best way
> to do this.. for .com .net .org only.. and to strip the rest of the
> garbage.. like in this case.. get rid of groups in groups.google.com

This is slightly underspecified.  If what you want is: given a
list of strings, get for each the longest trailing substring 
that contains just one dot, assuming each string has at least
one dot:

newlist = []
for item in oldlist:
    pieces = item.split('.')
    newlist.append('.'.join(pieces[-2:]))

which can easily be compacted into a list-comprehension:

newlist = [ ''.join(item.split('.')[-2:]) for item in oldlist ]


This, however, has nothing to say about the "for .com .net
.org only" clause in your specs.  If that means you only want
in the newlist those items which end in .com, .net, or .org,
then:

of_interest = dict(zip('com net org'.split(), range(3))
newlist = []
for item in oldlist:
    pieces = item.split('.')
    if pieces[-1] in of_interest:
        newlist.append('.'.join(pieces[-2:]))

this is getting a bit too hairy for it to make sense to
squash it into a list-comprehension.


> I need to parse though a huge list so it has to be optimized algorithm
> 
> No need to write complete code.. Just get me in the right direccion..
> Still learning python and I am not sure what would be the fastest way
> to go about it..

I'm not sure either -- I just doubt there's much performance to
be gained by any of the several other possible approaches, such
as finding the second '.' from the right, RE's, and so on.  No
matter how huge is your list, saveing (say) 10% of runtime is no
big deal, and I don't think there can be much more than this in
terms of optimization one way or another.  The right approach
is: first, try the simplest thing that can possibly work (and
things can't be much simpler than the above snippets); measure
what performance you get this way; if this is unacceptable to
the customer, whip out the hotshot profiler to find out where
the time is going, and focus on the actual bottleneck (may not
be where you'd expect it to be: always MEASURE rather than GUESS).

Remember that, for just about any code, being inside a function
is a substantial speedup (because local variables are looked up
much faster than global ones), and so is using Python 2.3 (not
acceptable for production code yet -- it's still a pre-alpha from
CVS -- but, very promising for the near-future), or, if you're
stuck with 2.2.2 (as you should be for production-level code),
so it using -O on your command line.  These are "optimization
tricks" that aren't tricky, cost just about nothing, and get you
a few percent speedup (up to 10% or even more in some cases)
as easily as apple pie.


Alex



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Nov 15 18:22:58 2002
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 23:22:58 GMT
Subject: Permutations algoritm?
References: <mailman.1037397424.5900.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar3vki$esapq$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>

sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
>> From: William Park [mailto:opengeometry at yahoo.ca]
>> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 3:42 PM
>> 
>> sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
>> > Does anybody have a clear, simple, permutations algorithm
>> > in Python?
>> 
>> Would you care to explain this?  Permutation can mean 
>> different things.
>> Concrete example might be good...
>>
> 
> Of a set of different items 'S', obtain all distinct subsets of 'n'
> items where all items in the subset are different.
> 
> So, if I have, for example:
> 
>   S = [ 0, 1, 2, 3 ]
> 
> the universe of available subsets of 3 items would be:
> 
>   s = [ (0, 1, 2),
>         (0, 1, 3),
>         (0, 2, 3),
>         (1, 2, 3) ]
> 
> the universe of available subsets of 2 items would be:
> 
>   s = [ (0, 1),
>         (0, 2),
>         (0, 3),
>         (1, 2),
>         (1, 3),
>         (2, 3) ]
> 
> Any help?

So, you don't want just a number (ie. P(n,k) or C(n,k)), but instead you
want list of sets spat out...  Well, using your example, try

    s, N = [], len(S)
    for a in range(N):
	for b in range(a+1, N):
	    for c in range (b+1, N):
		s.append(a, b, c)
    
-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov  8 08:09:09 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 13:09:09 GMT
Subject: string.strip
References: <mailman.1036752550.13972.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqgd1l$5g2$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:46:32 -0000, Simon Brunning <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> wrote:

>> From:	Duncan Booth [SMTP:duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk]
>> Gerhard H=E4ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote:=20
>> > In article <mailman.1036744990.32317.python-list at python.org>, Stano
>> > Paska wrote:=20
>>=20
>> >> in documentation: string.strip(s[, chars])
>> >> but in real life strip takes only 1 parameter
>> >>=20
>> >> I have python 2.2.2
>> >=20
>> > But you've read the documentation for 2.3. (.../doc/current on
>> > python.org).=20
>>=20
>> Did you check your answer before posting?
>>=20
>> See
>> http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.2/lib/module-string.html#l2h-698
>=20
>Ah, but this is the string *module*. The string method page -
><http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.2/lib/string-methods.html> - looks =
>right. In
>fact, they both do.
>

 Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import string
 >>> print string.strip.__doc__
 strip(s) -> string

     Return a copy of the string s with leading and trailing
     whitespace removed.


 >>> print str.strip.__doc__
 S.strip([sep]) -> string or unicode

 Return a copy of the string S with leading and trailing
 whitespace removed.
 If sep is given and not None, remove characters in sep instead.
 If sep is unicode, S will be converted to unicode before stripping

 >>> ' abc def  '.strip()
 'abc def'
 >>> ' abc def  '.strip('fa ')
 'bc de'
 >>> string.strip(' abc def  ')
 'abc def'
 >>> string.strip(' abc def  ','fa ')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: strip() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)

 >>> string.strip
 <function strip at 0x007DB3A0>
 >>> str.strip
 <method 'strip' of 'str' objects>
 >>>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Wed Nov 27 16:13:26 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:13:26 -0800
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <mhc3sa.7q3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

malik m fed this fish to the penguins on Wednesday 27 November 2002 
03:48 am:


> #chapter 3 test control structures 3.3
> print "hello, this program will tell me how many miles per gallon your
> car drives by the \n amount of miles entered by the user along with
> the size of his/her tank."
>
        You probably weren't expecting an English lesson either, but that 
intro is running "... me ... your ... the user ... his/her ..."; 
implies three different people are involved <G>

        You are also assuming that one always runs the tank empty before 
filling it, rather than using the amount of fuel needed to refill the 
tank.
 
> #initialize variables
> totalMilesDriven = 0 #total miles driven
> 
> totalGallonsPerTank = 0 #total gallons per tank
> 
> counter = 0 #bogus counter
> 
        Definitely bogus, if the only use is to see if the user entered real 
values you could just see if the totals are > 0.

> 
> while gallonsPerTank or milesDriven != -1:

        That is equal to

                (gallonsPerTank) or (milesDriven != -1)

Comparisons don't distribute so it is NOT

                (gallonsPerTank != 1) or (milesDriven !=1)

which is still incorrect, since someone could enter -1 for ONE item, 
but the other could be a positive number, and would make the statement 
true.

>     gallonsPerTank = raw_input("Enter how many gallons your tank
> holds, -1 to end:")
>     milesDriven = raw_input("enter how many miles driven, -1 to end:")
>
        Forgot to convert from string to numeric.
 
> #termination phase
> if counter != 0:


        This looks like a homework assignment, and I'm probably going to 
violate conventions (don't do their homework). Of course, by the time 
my message shows up, you'll have seen all the line-by-line critiques.

,----[ /home/wulfraed/t.py ]
| import string       # probably not needed in the newest versions of 
Python
|                     # strings have methods so just variable.upper()
|                     # could replace string.upper(variable)
|                     
| #chapter 3 test control structures 3.3
| #   as recreated by dlbieber/nov 20 2002
| 
| intro = """
| Hello. This program will tell you how many miles per gallon your
| car produces by dividing the amount of miles entered by the
| amount of fuel needed to refill the tank. The tank has to
| be full at the start of the trip!
| """
| 
| # initialize stuff
| sumMiles = 0.0
| sumGallons = 0.0
| 
| def ProcessSegment():
|     global sumMiles         #declare the running totals as external to
|     global sumGallons       #the function
| 
|     EOI = 0                 #initialize End Of Input to false
| 
|     userin = raw_input("Enter the miles driven in this segment (Q to 
end)  ")
|     if string.upper(userin) != "Q":
|         miles = float(userin)   # note: no check for invalid input is
|         made
|         userin = raw_input("Enter the numbers of gallons needed to 
refill (Q to end)  ")
|         if string.upper(userin) != "Q":
|             gallons = float(userin) # note: no check for invalid input
|             print "Miles per gallon for this segment: %s" % (miles / 
gallons)
|             sumMiles = sumMiles + miles
|             sumGallons = sumGallons + gallons
|         else:
|             EOI = 1
|     else:
|         EOI = 1             #set end of input true
| 
|     return EOI              #return the End Of Input flag value
| 
| 
| 
| if __name__ == "__main__":
|     print intro
| 
|     while not ProcessSegment(): #loop until the function returns EOI 
true
|         print "Average miles per gallon: %s" % (sumMiles / sumGallons)
|         print " "
|         
|     if sumGallons and sumMiles:
|         print "\n\nFinal average miles per gallon: %s" % (sumMiles / 
sumGallons)
|     else:
|         print "***  No data entered ***"

`----

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From logistix at zworg.com  Mon Nov 11 17:38:10 2002
From: logistix at zworg.com (logistix)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 14:38:10 -0800
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bdb5b58f.0211111438.640885d2@posting.google.com>

a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya) wrote in message news:<fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8 at posting.google.com>...
> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
> a single line of code.
> 
> perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
> 
> can python do something like this?

Guys, c'mon.  How are you supposed to lock up your computer when you
only print the first 10 numbers?

python  -c "a,b=1,1;exec('while 1:\n\tglobal a,b\n\tprint
a\n\ta,b=b,a+b\n\n')"


From gminick at hacker.pl  Sun Nov 24 07:49:07 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:49:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: rss.py for win32.
References: <Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP@195.112.4.37> <vdWdndYr6YGgGUKgXTWcpg@comcast.com> <Xns92D07E4887446DaveP@195.112.4.37>
Message-ID: <slrnau205j.17d.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia 24 Nov 2002 12:24:35 GMT, Dave Pawson napisa?(a):
>>> http://orchard.sourceforge.net/doc/RSS-parser.py
>>> Appears to be *nix only.
>> Why do you think that?  
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "testrss.py", line 8, in ?
>     tc.parse("http://www.python.org/channews.rdf")
>   File "rss.py", line 207, in parse
>     signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, self._timeout)
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'SIGALRM'
> Looks very Un win32 like to me...
> Not dissimilar to *nix C code?

<QUOTATION>
 From: Guido van Rossum <guido at CNRI.Reston.Va.US>
 Subject: Re: Python SIGALRM on WINNT
 Date: 1998/07/17
 Message-ID: <199807171525.LAA24284 at eric.CNRI.Reston.Va.US>#1/1
 Sender: daemon at cwi.nl (0000-Admin(0000))
 References: <35AF471E.263514D0 at graburn.com>
 Organization: CWI, Amsterdam
 Newsgroups: comp.lang.python


> Why isn't SIGALRM supported on the WIN NT version of Python.  I thought
> NT is supposed to be POSIX compliant?

Ha, ha, ha.

There is a "POSIX subsystem" with very limited Posix compliance -- but
you have to choose *either* Posix or Win32 compliance -- guess which
one is more useful :-) For lots of money you can buy a much better 3rd
party Posix subsystem -- but it still has that same problem.

</QUOTATION>

BTW. take a look at asyncore module.

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov  6 15:24:03 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 20:24:03 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com> <mailman.1036601108.23735.python-list@python.org> <sA6q3WAW5Uy9Ew4K@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <20021106184401.X30315@prim.han.de> <mailman.1036608261.5045.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqbtp3$eb3$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:41:52 +0000, Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <20021106184401.X30315 at prim.han.de>, holger krekel
><pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes
>.....
>>I am not sure i understand this.  Why does python need to enter
>>restricted mode?  
>>
>>And doesn't PSYCO also do JIT-alike compiling?  That's at least how
>>i understood Armin.  As he also suggests to rewrite the python-core
>>in python to make it faster (with psyco) maybe this could help
>>with an c#-interpreter?  
>>
>>wildly-guessing'ly yours,
>>
>>    holger
>>
>I think that python allows any reference to change type dynamically.
>
>I don't think C# allows this, but am no expert. The implication is that
>C# can be very much more agressive in its JIT compilation. When it sees
>x*y for x and y known ints it can compile an integer multiply. Python
>only sees x*y and without the type information it is forced to do type
>lookup at run time.
>
>As you point out psyco can do the compilation, but only into the generic
>multiply (unless psyco can be hinted in some way).
>
I would think you could generate machine code speculatively as cached segments
based on the assumption that types for variables involved in the segment
would not change after the first binding, and then dynamically check a segment cache
validity flag and do what it currently does as fallback if the flag was set. The flag
would of course have to be set by code that does type-changing rebindings for the
particular set of variables used in a segment, so there is some overhead, but maybe
not high percentagewise. I imagine you'd have to play with tuning the segment
lengths and variable set sizes etc., but if the speculative assumption were right
sufficiently often, especially in hot loops with function calls to builtins which
would have type-signature-specific machine language variants available for common
situations, you'd get a speedup with no change in semantics. Of course, this implies
a pretty different VM implementation and support library, and multiple dynamically
coexisting representations of code at a different granularity level.

But once programmers knew that this was going on, they would watch how they
bound things to take advantage. And the nice thing is the language definition would
not change.

I guess I would want to get some statistics on dynamic rebinding type changes before
starting such a big project though. Has anyone done that already?

>The pyrex project goes further and allows C style typing which makes it
>very fast, but it isn't JIT.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From cmvb at optonline.net  Fri Nov 15 20:02:15 2002
From: cmvb at optonline.net (cmvb)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:02:15 -0500
Subject: help plz ive been to atleast 10 different faqs and guides
Message-ID: <004801c28d0b$cdc93ef0$aed7bd18@mouseoh7s2nyon>

um yes id like to make a program so when you ask a question it responds with a preset set of random responses is this possible?

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From jonas.b at home.se  Thu Nov 21 21:13:22 2002
From: jonas.b at home.se (Jonas Bengtsson)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 02:13:22 GMT
Subject: How to access a property in Outlook using win32com?
References: <mailman.1037849249.16795.python-list@python.org> <Xns92CD892C73848jonasbhomese@195.17.59.36>
Message-ID: <Xns92CE20C7B7F6Fjonasbhomese@195.17.59.36>

Jonas Bengtsson <jonas.b at home.se> wrote in
news:Xns92CD892C73848jonasbhomese at 195.17.59.36: 
> Any assistance appreciated!

Please disregard my request. I managed to figure it out by myself (thanks 
to the test at the bottom.

Works great! Thanks!

Regards,
Jonas


From jarek at usun.zgoda.biz  Wed Nov 13 14:31:04 2002
From: jarek at usun.zgoda.biz (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:31:04 +0100
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <aqt734$r6j$0@216.39.172.122> <3dd27ed6$0$4440$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <149oh3oxnl53k.1tyg3jioqd4rb$.dlg@40tude.net>

Dnia 13 Nov 2002 16:33:26 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) pisze na 
grupie comp.lang.python:

> One warning: there is a very special place reserved in hell for
> people who design GUI dialogs with hard-wired widget locations
> so that the dialogs can't be resized.  One of the reasons I
> really hate working with MS-Windows because of all the dialog
> boxes that use 80% of the space in a dialog for useless crap,
> and then show only four lines in a list-box containing 100+
> elements.  A decent GUI would let you resize the dialog so you
> could see more of the stuff in the list-box.  But not
> MS-Windows....

And here comes the Delphi's idea of using alignments and anchors. AFAIR, 
wxPython has also "anchors", but I didn't found any reasonable 
information on using it (except the demo application), so I'm forced to 
use sizers...

-- 
Zdr?wko
Jarek Zgoda

-- 
Serwis Usenet w portalu Gazeta.pl -> http://www.gazeta.pl/usenet/


From e_viola at libero.it  Tue Nov 19 14:45:42 2002
From: e_viola at libero.it (bart)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:45:42 GMT
Subject: URLLIB2 EXCEPTION
Message-ID: <3DDA94E9.8090809@libero.it>

Sometime, when I use urlopen function, happen this:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 2, in ?
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 138, in urlopen
     return _opener.open(url, data)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 322, in open
     '_open', req)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 301, in _call_chain
     result = func(*args)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 790, in http_open
     return self.do_open(httplib.HTTP, req)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 784, in do_open
     return self.parent.error('http', req, fp, code, msg, hdrs)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 342, in error
     result = self._call_chain(*args)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 301, in _call_chain
     result = func(*args)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 434, in http_error_302
     return self.parent.open(new)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 322, in open
     '_open', req)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 301, in _call_chain
     result = func(*args)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 790, in http_open
     return self.do_open(httplib.HTTP, req)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 779, in do_open
     code, msg, hdrs = h.getreply()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/httplib.py", line 1009, in getreply
     response = self._conn.getresponse()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/httplib.py", line 760, in getresponse
     response.begin()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/httplib.py", line 269, in begin
     version, status, reason = self._read_status()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/httplib.py", line 231, in _read_status
     line = self.fp.readline()
IOError: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer


I understood that connection can be reseted but I managed this exception 
cases: HTTPError and URLError. I don't know another exception that can 
be generate in urllib2. Besides IOError exception doesn't present inside 
urllib2. What can I do to resolve my problem? Where I can found (web 
site, manual and other) a solution?

Thanks to help me...

                                                     - Ennio -



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov  7 14:29:33 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 19:29:33 GMT
Subject: Asking a user for the root password and executing root only c  ommands...
References: <aq9vpp$gd7$0@216.39.172.122> <memo.20021107180143.1228B@a.radioscape.com>
Message-ID: <aqeeut$rs6$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:01 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), mark.charsley at REMOVE_THIS.radioscape.com (Mark Charsley) wrote:

>In article <aq9vpp$gd7$0 at 216.39.172.122>, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) 
>wrote:
>
>> >> but by default any doorknob rattler could kick it off with 
>> > ctrl-alt-del
>> >> without being asked for a password. Not a cool default config IMO ;-/
>> >
>> >Thus providing anyone with accesss to the console's power switch a 
>> more >computer-friendly way of rebooting a locked-up machine than 
>> power-cycling >it.
>> It's a bit too friendly for my taste ;-) I accidentally did it too many 
>> times,
>> because I am used to the the keying pattern to get past the locking 
>> screensaver
>> on my NT box, so when I turn to the linux box I just do the same if I 
>> am at all
>> distracted.
>
>Ah I thought you were arguing that the three fingered salute resetting a 
>linux box was a security hole.
Well, yes, that too. If it's not, why would you watch 8-year-old visitors
more carefully near your linux keyboard than your NT keyboard ;-)
It's not that they can get root so much as the denial-of-service aspect.
(Imagine that the box is just about to finish something that runs several hours ;-)

Even if you don't have a lock on the physical power and reset, the social
threshold for poking power/reset buttons is a little higher than fingering
the keyboard.

>
>IMO it's at least as valid to complain about win32 changing the meaning of 
>C-A-D from "reset the machine" as it is to complain about linux 
>maintaining that meaning.
>
I disagree on that. I think an access-controlled machine needs a secure attention
signal to start an unspoofable authentic login, and Ctrl-Alt-Del was the logical
choice for PCs. I think a locking screensaver timeout is a good idea. And after
the timeout, I don't think you should be able to see what was on the screen before
without logging in (which should require an SAS), never mind hitting Alt-Fx and
getting a root session if someone lapsed and walked away from that.

But in any case, my biggest beef is with loose-access defaults. I don't think it
should be possible to get past an install with insecure settings unless you chose them
explicitly. However you want to choose, though, that's up to you.

A reset is like rm -f on the current dynamic state of the machine. I think
it's inconsistent to allow that by default from the keyboard without root, when you
can't do it otherwise from the keyboard. Physical access to power/reset is a separate
issue to my mind.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jslmaslk at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 18 23:18:16 2002
From: jslmaslk at earthlink.net (Josh)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:18:16 GMT
Subject: static variables?
Message-ID: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hi guys,

I am a python newbie, and I am sure there is an easy answer but, Is there
any equivalent to C's static variables in Python? If not, how can you have
variables inside a function, that 'remember' their values between function
calls?

Josh




From tundra at tundraware.com  Wed Nov 13 03:10:07 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 08:10:07 GMT
Subject: Tkinter: listbox navigation
Message-ID: <0v0tqa.3kf1.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

I have looked high and low but cannot find an answer to:

When I give the listbox focus, I am able to navigate around it using the
arrow keys. So, even if I have selected a particular item, I can move to
other items *which is indicated by an underlining of the currently
navigated item*.  So, at any moment in time, one item may be selected
and another underlined.

Is there a way programmatically to force the underlining to a particular
item?

I have a listbox which displays directory contents. I want to reload and
it periodically so it stays in sync with the directory - someone may
delete a file, for example. I do this with the after() method. After the
reload I want to set the navigation back to where it was before. I can
set the selection with the select_set() method, but I cannot figure out
how to get the underlining back to where it was - it is really annoying
to see the underline move back to the first list item every polling
period (1 sec)!

I cannot seem to find a complete set of docs on the various methods
and attributes of a listbox, so a pointer to this would also be
appreciated.

TIA,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From doru-cat at ifi.uio.no  Sun Nov 10 03:57:28 2002
From: doru-cat at ifi.uio.no (Doru-Catalin Togea)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:57:28 +0100 (MET)
Subject: RE - non-greedy - some greediness - complete greediness
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.44.0211100950440.13296-100000@fjorir.ifi.uio.no>

Hi!

I am working on a little project where i need REs with a self-defined
level of greediness.

I am processing text in a Latex like manner, for those of you who are
familiar with it.

I want to be able to recognize Latex-like commands within my text. A
command starts with a character, say '\' followed by the command's name
and followed by the text on which the command applies enclosed in curly
brackets. Examples:

	\footnote{some text}
	\cite{some referance}
	\section{some title}

Recognizing such patterns and retriving the name of the command and the
text on which the command applies is not so difficult to achieve. Things
get complicated though when one encounters nested commands.

Say I have the following string:

 "abcd \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl} mnop \footnote{hello there}"
                                  ^     ^                           ^
 closing bracket of nested \cite  |     |                           |
    closing bracket of first \footnote  |                           |
                               closing bracket of second \footnote  |

By using non-greedy REs, I would get recognized the following footnotes:
	1) \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1}
	2) \footnote{hello there}

The first matching is wrong because the first '}' encountered belongs to
the nested \cite command. The second matching is correct.

By using greedy REs, I would get recognized the following pattern:
	1) \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl} mnop \footnote{hello there}

This is wrong because a) there are two \footnote commands in my string, so
I should get two matchings, and b) the first \footnote command should be
applied only to the "efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl" substring.

In other words I need to be able to specify the level of greediness my REs
should have. Is it possible? If yes, how?

I have an idea of how to solve my problem without REs, by counting the
opening and closing curly brackets and reasoning algorithmically about
where within my text each nested command begins and ends. The question is
can the above stated problem be solved elegantly by means of REs?

With best regards,
Catalin


	<<<< ================================== >>>>
	<<     We are what we repeatedly do.      >>
	<<  Excellence, therefore, is not an act  >>
	<<             but a habit.               >>
	<<<< ================================== >>>>




From anthony at interlink.com.au  Fri Nov  8 00:53:45 2002
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:53:45 +1100
Subject: PEP 301 -- Package Index and Metadata for Distutils 
In-Reply-To: <200211081643.12862.rjones@ekit-inc.com> 
Message-ID: <200211080553.gA85rja14087@localhost.localdomain>

>>> Richard Jones wrote
> This PEP proposes several extensions to the Distutils packaging system.  
> These enhancements include a central package index server, tools for 
> submitting package information to the index and extensions to the 
> package metadata to include Trove information.

The online latest version of this PEP is at:
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0301.html

Catalog-sig discussion can be found at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/catalog-sig/2002-October/date.html

Anthony



From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 22 15:27:27 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:27:27 -0800
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
In-Reply-To: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <200211222027.MAA28283@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Friday 22 November 2002 06:25, Eric Brunel wrote:

> I quite often find myself doing things like:
>
> xMax = None
> for -whatever-:
>   -big calculation leading to a value of x-
>   if xMax is None:
>     xMax = x
>   else:
>     xMax = max(x, xMax)

My kludgey workaround goes something like this:


_xMax = []
for -whatever-:
  -big calculation leading to a value of x-
  _xMax.append( x )
  _xMax = [max(xMax)]
  xMax = _xMax[0]

Saves a line (and doesn't need to worry about None).  And of course, there is 
always the possibly evil:

_xMax = []
for -whatever-:
  -big calculation leading to a value of x-
  _xMax.append( x )
  xMax = max(_xMax)  # 

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Thu Nov 21 20:40:04 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:40:04 -0800
Subject: Howto wait for multiple queues (Queue.py)?
References: <87bs4kxxxs.fsf@sinon.fr.de.tenovis.com> <15835.51072.893744.335565@montanaro.dyndns.org> <mailman.1037873441.3796.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kt1kra.im3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Andreas Ames fed this fish to the penguins on Thursday 21 November 2002 
02:01 am:

> 
> I think this would be another possibility which would probably look
> similar to alternative 3 in my post.  My main concern is the
> performance of this approach as the queue is one of *the* central
> concepts in my server.
>
        I suspect Alex Martelli (sp?) has the proper argument, but may have 
obscured it some.

        You seem to be asking for something similar to Ada's selective 
rendezvous (not actual Ada shown below):

        Accept EventQueue()
                ....
        or accept CommandQueue()
                ....

Problem with Ada is that those accepts are specific to the task 
(thread), and not shared by a pool.

        In pseudo-Python you seem to want:

        while 1:
                c = Command.get_nowait()
                e = Event.get_nowait()
                if c:
                        #command process
                elif e:
                        #event process

WITHOUT the busy wait.

        So... Rather than use two queues, on for each type of data, why not 
pass the data type as the first item of the entry?

        while 1:
                d = CEQueue.get()       #use the blocking mode
                if d[0] == "COMMAND":
                        #command process
                elif d[0] == "EVENT":
                        #event process

        All the "writers" use:

        CEQueue.put(("COMMAND, data))
or
        CEQueue.put(("EVENT, data))

        IOWs; just take your current queue data, and make a tuple with that 
data AND a determinant for the type of data.

        Ada would need the selective accept because of its strict static type 
checking. Python Queues can accept any data with each entry.
         

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 19 07:43:09 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:43:09 +0000
Subject: COM interfaces and inheritance
References: <Xns92CB6026FC70Brobjohnrichardcouk@192.168.0.246>
Message-ID: <3DDA31DD.35E676C0@hotmail.com>

Rob Sykes wrote:

> I'm having a problem with a (3rd party) IDispatch interface

> I need to create a new bar object but the 3rd party interface gives
> me a method which returns foo objects

Thw win32 extensions provide explicitly for this situation, i.e. where
the returned COM object implements several different interfaces, but
functions return the interface that you don't want.

First, you've got to run the win32 utility script

Lib/site-packages/win32com/client/makepy.py

on the library you're using.

This will create a pure python module that interfaces to your COM
library. These generated python modules are stored in the directory

Lib/site-packages/win32com/gen_py

Inside this generated file appears all of the code that you need to turn
an object implementing one interface into an object implementing another
interface (assuming, of course, that it does actually implement that
interface).

The first step is to get a handle on the module for your COM library,
like so

from win32com.client.gencache	import GetModuleForProgID
myModule = GetModuleForProgID('your.com.library.name.here')

Each possible interface in that module will have a class to represent
it. Each of the "constructors" for those classes will recognise if you
have passed it an instance of an object that implements a related
interface. If  you have, then it will return to you an instance that
implements the interface you need.

So some code might look like this

objA = createObjA() # Returned object implements interface A
objB = myModule.IInterface2(objA)
# Bingo!

At least, that works for me :-)

I hope this helps, and that I've explained it clearly enough.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From mwh at python.net  Sat Nov  9 08:24:27 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:24:27 GMT
Subject: [OT] Cameras (was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?)
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqgka6$t8j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqh2bo$7ti$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <aqh745$1iv$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqhata$ctr$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <7h3wunmx4j7.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Totally off-topic, but hey...

Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:

> If you just want convenience for 4x6 prints from negative, a P&S is
> fine. But even a basic SLR like a Canon Rebel is about as easy to
> use as a P&S, while allowing you to 'go manual' when you feel like
> it.

What strikes me is that with modern, decent print film, going manual
-- at least wrt. exposure -- makes next to now difference.  I don't
know enough about the area to say what's going on, but I was
surprised.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  > Why are we talking about bricks and concrete in a lisp newsgroup?
  After long experiment it was found preferable to talking about why
  Lisp is slower than C++...
                        -- Duane Rettig & Tim Bradshaw, comp.lang.lisp


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Sat Nov 23 10:58:10 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:58:10 GMT
Subject: Newbie Q on searching lists
References: <3DDF1673.4020203@nyc.rr.com> <mailman.1038036812.7653.python-list@python.org> <3DDF3C32.4060205@nyc.rr.com> <87wun4wnv0.fsf@key.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3DDFA5F5.2070005@nyc.rr.com>


Patrick W wrote:
> Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>>>1. Am I missing something?
>>>>
>>>
>>>if calculators.count(thisCalculator): # returns zero if not found
>>>   raise CircularDependency, thisCalculator
>>
>>oops :)  thx!
> 
> 
> Try this:
> 
> if thisCalculator in calculators:
>         do_stuff()
> 
> Tests of the form '<item> in <sequence>' work for dictionaries
> (hashtables), strings and tuples as well as lists.

ah, that was my problem. i had looked only at list operations, not yet 
grokking the umbrella sequence quality. thx much.

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru  Tue Nov 26 11:12:51 2002
From: zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru (Lexy Zhitenev)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:12:51 +0300
Subject: A bug or a feature: how to avoid?
Message-ID: <as06i3$4bi$1@serv.vrn.ru>

My code has to react on many exceptions.
I use ActivePython 2.2.1 with stackless 2.2.2 DLL.

The problem is that I can't write a handler for more than two exceptions at
once. My program can throw a lot of exceptions, and I can't react on them
simultaneously!

This code doesn't work, it raises SyntaxError

>>> try:
...  pass
... except IndexError, ValueError, NameError:
Traceback (  File "<interactive input>", line 3
    except IndexError, ValueError, NameError:
                                 ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>

I don't want to write the code under try statement twice! What's the
solution? Or it should be reported as a bug?




From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov 12 09:53:47 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 15:53:47 +0100
Subject: Cyrillic letters in 'Entry' widget
References: <mailman.1037103676.7736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3adkevnyc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Denis S. Otkidach" <ods at strana.ru> writes:

> This helps for output only.  To recieve input you need patching
> Tkinter: http://prefnews.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19

This information is outdated; changing FixTk is not necessary anymore
in Python 2.2.1 and later, since Kirill's patch has been applied.

Regards,
Martin



From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 19 19:18:39 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 00:18:39 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <slrnatll92.qu5.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>, Mark Hammond wrote:

>> I'm trying to figure out how WaitCommEvent() works in Python, and it looks
>> like there's a problem when it's used in overlapped mode.
>> 
>> My understanding is that (in C) you:
>> 
>>  1) Call WaitCommEvent() and give it three parameters:
>>      * File handle
>>      * a pointer to where the output mask value is to be stored
>>      * a pointer to an overlapped struct
>>     
>>  2) WaitCommEvent() returns immediately.
>> 
>>  3) Call one of the WaitXXX() functions to wait on the event in
>>     the overloapped struct.
>> 
>>  4) When the event is triggered WaitXXX() returns. Check the
>>     value stored via the output mask pointer passed in 1)
>>     above.
>> 
>> [I've gleaned most of this from
>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/devio/base/waitcommevent.asp]
> 
> I don't think this last step is correct.

Perhaps.  If it isn't correct, where does the event mask get returned? [I'd
try to generate a test case in C, but I don't have a Win32 C compiler.]
Remember that in overlapped mode, the call to WaitCommEvent() can return
_before_ the event actually happens, just as a call to ReadFile() or
WriteFile() can return before data has been transferred.

> Certainly the link you posted doesn't say this is true.

Here's the part I was reading:

    Remarks

    The WaitCommEvent function monitors a set of events for a specified
    communications resource. To set and query the current event mask of a
    communications resource, use the SetCommMask and GetCommMask functions.

    If the overlapped operation cannot be completed immediately, the
    function returns FALSE and the GetLastError function returns
    ERROR_IO_PENDING, indicating that the operation is executing in the
    background.

This means to me that WaitCommEvent can return immediately (before the event
has happened).  Therefore, the "mask" variable can not contain valid info
upon return from WaitCommEvent. IOW, the event which "mask" is to identify
hasn't happened yet.

    When this happens, the system sets the hEvent member of the OVERLAPPED
    structure to the not-signaled state before WaitCommEvent returns, and
    then it sets it to the signaled state when one of the specified events
    or an error occurs. The calling process can use one of the wait
    functions to determine the event object's state
  
Since WaitCommEvent returned immediately (none of the masked events has
happened yet) you have to use WaitXXX() if you want to know when one of the
selected events does happen.
  
    and then use the GetOverlappedResult function to determine the results
    of the WaitCommEvent operation.
  
To me the phrase "and then use the GetOverlappedResult function" implies
that this happens _after_ WaitXXX() has returned.  The reasons for calling
GetOverlappedResult are unclear.  The docs for GetOverlappedResult state
explicitly that the "lpNumberOfBytesTransferred" return value is undefined,
so the call appears to be useless in this context.  [Indeed I've never seen
it used following WaitCommEvent()/WaitForXXX()].
  
    GetOverlappedResult reports the success or failure of the operation, and
    the variable pointed to by the lpEvtMask parameter is set to indicate
    the event that occurred.

lpEvtMask was the pointer passed to WaitCommEvent().  This last sentance
says to me that the variable to which lpEvtMask points isn't written to
until _after_ WaitForXXX() has returned.

> Looking further, I can't find *anything* that implies this is true.

I don't see how the above section can be interpreted any differently, and I
don't see how WaitCommEvent() can return a mask value describing an event
that hasn't happened yet.

> KB Q175551 has sample code for Windows CE that uses overlapped IO, and it
> examines the mask immediately after the call.

FWIW, The WinCE serial driver doesn't work the same way as serial devices on
other Win32 platforms.  Notice that this example doesn't pass an overlapped
structure pointer to WaitCommEvent().  One of my companies projects had to
use Embedded NT rather than WinCE due to the differences in I/O on WinCE. At
least that's what the Win32 guys claimed.

> Further, if what you say is correct, I would expect Python COM port 
> based programs to regularly crash!  In your scenario, by the time the 
> overlapped function ended up writing to our mask variable, that address 
> would be invalid.

I don't see any other interpretation.  If WaitCommEvent() can return
immediately, the mask variable obviously isn't valid at that point. Perhaps
in the overlapped case, the output mask value information is discarded, but
that's not what the above text says.

> However, it would be pretty close to the top of the stack, so I would expect
> it to corrupt whatever was running when the mask was actually written.  I
> know a number of people have used these APIs to do serious serial port
> control - either directly, or via another wrapper.  I would be very
> surprised we survived this long.
>
> Can you find an explicit reference to this?

I think the text quoted above is pretty explicit. It's from
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/devio/base/waitcommevent.asp

Overlapped read/write work in similar ways, you pass a pointer to the
source/destination when you initiate the operation, then after doing
WaitForXXX(), you check the contents of the destination or the byte count.

Here's the example program from the Win32All Demo directory:

    88	
    89	    def _ComPortThread(self):
    90	        overlapped = OVERLAPPED()
    91	        overlapped.hEvent = CreateEvent(None, 1, 0, None)
    92	        while 1:
    95	            rc, mask = WaitCommEvent(self.handle, overlapped)
    
If WaitCommEvent() always waits for the event to happen so that mask is
valid, then we know that receive data is ready.  Why not just call
ReadFile() at this point?  Because the WaitCommEvent is overlapped, the
WaitCommEvent returns immediately whether or not data is ready, and we have
to do the WaitForXXX() below:
    
    96	            if rc == 0: # Character already ready!
    97	                SetEvent(overlapped.hEvent)
    98	            rc = WaitForMultipleObjects([overlapped.hEvent, self.eventStop], 0, INFINITE)
    99	            if rc == WAIT_OBJECT_0:
   100	                # Some input - read and print it
   101	                flags, comstat = ClearCommError( self.handle )
   102	                rc, data = ReadFile(self.handle, comstat.cbInQue, overlapped)
   103	                WaitForSingleObject(overlapped.hEvent, INFINITE)
   104	                sys.stdout.write(data)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I represent a
                                  at               sardine!!
                               visi.com            


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Thu Nov 14 15:28:18 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:28:18 -0800
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <ar05uv$7ao$1@news.netpower.no>
References: <mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list@python.org> <EDLA9.27101$eX.71749@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <ar05uv$7ao$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <200211142028.MAA25626@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Thursday 14 November 2002 04:47, David Brown wrote:

> The question then is when will gcc support such
> link-time code generation, because until then, inlined functions in headers
> will remain an issue.

   I'm guessing there may be patent issues in this particular area, which 
could restrict gcc's ability to implement some of these features.


-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 11 13:38:50 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:38:50 -0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <aqmj2e$k0g$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <tyfznsgzew1.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <aqotfq$37k$2@peabody.colorado.edu>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:

[snip]

>> I'd very much appreciate an overview of this by you or anyone else
>> with a good lisp background.
> 
> I would not consider myself to have a "good lisp background". But I'd
> be happy to try to make constructive suggestions, and maybe give you
> some pointers ... but please allow me to postpone this for a week or
> so, as I would not be able to make a sensible contribution with my
> current time constraints.

Thanks a lot for the information you did give. And yes, I'm still interested, 
so whenever you find a spare moment (next week, next month, it doesn't really 
matter), I'd still appreciate more details. If you want, you can CC me 
privately at <fperez [AT] pizero.colorado.edu>, my work email (not used on 
Usenet normally for spam reasons).

Thanks again for your time.

Cheers,

f.


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Nov  7 04:11:10 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 10:11:10 +0100
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036637588.30844.python-list@python.org> <A9py9.2897$h%5.103801@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <j41y5x3ftd.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:

> > You can if you want.  The PEP continues to allow it until Python 3.0.
> 
> According to the PEP, Python 2.5 will print warnings whenever you use
> long literals.  If the OP doesn't want warnings, he'll have to change his
> code for 2.3, and change it back for 2.5.

It is quite difficult to predict the future, and I would suggest that
the OP ignores predictions that the PEP makes about what phases will
be implemented in what Python version.

My personal prediction is that Python 2.5 will not warn about long
literals.

> Looks like the only portable way to use large "unsigned" constants is to
> use long("0x80000000")...

You mean, long("80000000",16)?

Python 1.5.2 (#4, Jul 4 2000, 19:57:05) [GCC 2.95.2 19991024
(release)] on sunos5
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> long("80000000",16)
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: long requires exactly 1 argument; 2 given

Regards,
Martin


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Fri Nov 29 18:53:32 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 30 Nov 2002 10:53:32 +1100
Subject: Threading problems at program exit
Message-ID: <m3hee02arn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

The following program demonstrates a problem I am experiencing with
the threading module.  I have an object (A) which holds a lock on
another object (B).  When object A is deleted I want it to release any
lock it may still be holding on object B.

Everything works fine except when the program terminates.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
import sys
import threading

class Locked:
    def __init__(self, lock):
        self._lock = lock
        self._lock_count = 0
        self._thread = None
        self._log = sys.stderr.write
        self._current_thread = threading.currentThread
        self.lock()

    def lock(self):
        self._log('locked in %s\n' % self._current_thread())
        self._lock.acquire()
        self._lock_count += 1

    def unlock(self):
        self._log('unlocked in %s\n' % self._current_thread())
        self._lock_count -= 1
        self._lock.release()

    def __del__(self):
        while self._lock_count:
            self.unlock()

obj = Locked(threading.RLock())
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

When I run this program I get the following:

locked in <_MainThread(MainThread, started)>
unlocked in <_DummyThread(Dummy-1, started daemon)>
Exception exceptions.AssertionError: <exceptions.AssertionError instance at 0x814fbfc> in <bound method Locked.__del__ of <__main__.Locked instance at 0x816e5f4>> ignored

It looks like interpreter is deleting thread objects before objects
which hold locks in those threads.  Is there any kosher way I can
avoid the problem?

The only way I can think to fix it is a bit non-kosher:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
import sys
import threading

class Locked:
    def __init__(self, lock):
        self._lock = lock
        self._lock_count = 0
        self._thread = None
        self._log = sys.stderr.write
        self._current_thread = threading.currentThread
        self.lock()

    def lock(self):
        self._log('locked in %s\n' % self._current_thread())
        self._lock.acquire()
        self._lock_count += 1

    def unlock(self):
        self._log('unlocked in %s\n' % self._current_thread())
        self._lock_count -= 1
        self._lock.release()

    def __del__(self):
        if self._lock_count:
            count, owner = self._lock._release_save()
            self._log('owner was %s\n' % owner)
            owner = self._current_thread()
            self._log('owner is now %s\n' % owner)
            self._lock._acquire_restore((count, owner))
            while self._lock_count:
                self.unlock()

obj = Locked(threading.RLock())
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

This prints the following:

locked in <_MainThread(MainThread, started)>
owner was <_MainThread(MainThread, stopped)>
owner is now <_DummyThread(Dummy-1, started daemon)>
unlocked in <_DummyThread(Dummy-1, started daemon)>

The trouble is that it requires the use of private methods of the
RLock class.

Is there a better or more kosher way?

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Nov 15 14:02:26 2002
From: pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:02:26 +0100
Subject: bind problem
References: <ar3bht$11c$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.15.20.02.26.549858.710@thomas-guettler.de>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:40:13 +0100, Dan Stromberg wrote:

> I'm still having my previously-mentioned problem binding sockets in
> python 2.2.  Things are fine on linux, but they don't work on solaris -
> some solaris hosts, not all, I think.
> 
> I'm approaching the group again about it, because I've run across
> another, much smaller program with the same problem - in fact it's so
> small, but I think it'll be ok to post it here in its entirety.
> 
> The error I get with 2.2.1 is:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/tmp/packetpasser", line 108, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/tmp/packetpasser", line 60, in main
>     sockin.bind(('',read_from))
> socket.gaierror: (3, 'getaddrinfo failed')

"getaddrinfo failed" sounds like you can't resolve 
the dns-name of a machine to its ip-address.

does "nslookup machine" work?

Does it work if you use ip-adresses instead?

 thomas

-- 
Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
http://www.thomas-guettler.de


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Nov 13 18:50:05 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:50:05 -0500
Subject: property problems
References: <L4BA9.2023$ev.15607967@news-text.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <3DD2E52D.8080309@rogers.com>

Okay, there's a number of things going on here:

    * properties only work (properly) with new-style classes, new-style
      classes derive from other new-style classes, normally "object".
       Your class GlobalVars is an old-style class.  Derive from object
      to prevent problems which _will_ come up later on.
    * you are accessing a property which stores a list as if it was the
      setter method of that property.  You want to do:

        gv.stats =
        [['Height',self.height],['Build',self.build],['Strength',str]]

    * gv.stats( ... ) is actually accessing the property value, which is
      currently a list object, and then trying to call it as if it were
      a function/method/callable object (it isn't one).

HTH,
Mike

Newt wrote:

> Hi,
>  
> I've got a problem trying to use a property in a class module. The 
> class module is listed below (it's called globals.py):
>  
> class GlobalVars:
>  
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.l_stats = []
>         return
>  
>     def set_stats(self,val):
>         self.l_stats = val[:]
>         return
>  
>     def get_stats(self):
>         return self.l_stats
>  
>     stats = property(get_stats, set_stats)
> gv = GlobalVars()
>  
> I've got a further module which does the following:
>  
> from globals import gv
> gv.stats([['Height',self.height],['Build',self.build],['Strength',str]])
> However, I get the following error:
>  
> Exception in Tkinter callback
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Python22\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1292, in __call__
>     return apply(self.func, args)
>   File "D:\py_stuff\curry.py", line 14, in __call__
>     return self.fun(*(self.pending + args), **kw)
>   File "D:\py_stuff\chaz.py", line 223, in shownext
>     SelectStats(self)
>   File "D:\py_stuff\stats.py", line 46, in __init__
>     self.do_widgets()
>   File "D:\py_stuff\stats.py", line 208, in do_widgets
>     
> gv.stats([['Height',self.height],['Build',self.build],['Strength',str]])
> TypeError: 'list' object is not callable
>  
> Could somebody explain to mw what this means, and how to fix it please!
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Newt


-- 
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Nov 28 08:52:45 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:52:45 -0000
Subject: Distributing python applications for Windows users
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D01200318@intrepid>

> From:	martyn_quick at yahoo.co.uk [SMTP:martyn_quick at yahoo.co.uk]
> 
> What's the best way to distribute an application written in Python
> (consisting of quite a few modules and using Tkinter/Pmw for GUI) so
> that it can be used by someone who is using MS Windows without
> requiring them to install Python itself?
> 
> What's the easiest way also?  (I ask this because many of you have
> considerably more knowledge than me, and I might well find the best
> way is way beyond what I can currently handle.)
 
I like py2exe - <http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/>. Others
prefer Installer - <http://starship.python.net/crew/gmcm/distribute.html>.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk






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From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Nov 15 08:36:10 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 08:36:10 -0500
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <3DD47156.683F18B3@alcyone.com>
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org>
	<3DD47156.683F18B3@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <oqy97vc5v9.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Erik Max Francis]

> "Simon Wittber (Maptek)" wrote:

> > I disagree.  C is a very simple language.

> The C language itself is a fairly straightforward language, but
> summarizing that in eight pages does not do it much justice.  [...]
> Comparing a Python reference of 120 or so pages to a "C/C++" reference
> of 16 pages is comparing apples and oranges, and says absolutely nothing
> about the relative size or complexity of any of these languages.

I might not be fully singing with the choir here, but I do not find that
C is a simple language.  It has fairly intricate points here and there,
and I guess there are very, very few people in this crowd, and in many
other crowds as well, truly able to reply correctly to any question about
C, the language, not even considering its libraries.

C++ as a language is a slightly more regular than C, so it might be
slightly easier in that respect, but it is also much more complex, so
all summed, C++ is undoubtedly a difficult language.

No doubt to me that Python is an easier language, one can learn most of
it quickly, and run quite a long while on that knowledge.  But really
knowing Python, deeply, inside out, is a challenge in itself: there is a
great deal of details to know.  So, despite Python allows us to be much
more efficient and productive than with other languages, I would never
go as far as saying that Python is fully easy.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov 23 17:54:54 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:54:54 -0800
Subject: reliable tcp server holding multiple connections
References: <slrnatvnof.1qc.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <3DDFAEB4.1040506@nospam.attbi.com> <slrnatvpie.20s.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3DE0073E.25EE8B9E@alcyone.com>

Wojtek Walczak wrote:

> Dnia Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:37:07 GMT, djw napisa?(a):
>
> > Do you know about Medusa?
>
> Yes, but Medusa it a little bit large. I want to create small code,
> proof of concept. An educational example, nothing more.

The two primary modules in Medusa -- asyncore and asynchat -- are
already standard in the Python distribution.  For simple client-server
stuff, they're very lightweight and require no additional installation
to use.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Said it? yep / Regret it? nope
\__/ Ice Cube
    EmPy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/
 A system for embedding arbitrary Python in template text as markup.


From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Sun Nov 10 03:25:02 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:25:02 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Numarray append
In-Reply-To: <1ggz9.11678$Zn2.332778@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0211101019420.13533-100000@cens.kybi>

On 9 Nov 2002, Fabrizio wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Is there a quick way to append elements to a Numarray array ?
> 
> I could not find any.

Using Numeric.concatenate should be the quickest way to achieve that.
E.g.

>>> a=Numeric.arange(5)
>>> a=Numeric.concatenate((a,range(4)))
>>> a
array([0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 0, 1, 2, 3])

Pearu




From klaatu at evertek.net  Fri Nov 15 21:16:30 2002
From: klaatu at evertek.net (Mike Dean)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:16:30 -0600
Subject: list.reverse()
Message-ID: <ar49h9$si9$1@ins22.netins.net>

I think I recall seeing a reasonable explanation for this earlier 
(probably referring actually to list.sort()), but I'm wondering - what 
was the rationale for making list.reverse() reverse a list in-place 
rather than return a new, reversed list?  I'm sure there's a good 
reason, but what might that be?

-Mike


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Nov 21 03:39:05 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:39:05 -0500
Subject: Does Python (or psyco) already do this optimisation?
References: <mailman.1037861909.23049.python-list@python.org> <m3n0o3uz8h.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3DDC9BA9.9070309@rogers.com>

Okay.  That answers whether base Python (non-psyco) currently does this. 
 Thank-you for confirming what I'd assumed regarding the current operation.

Any idea (anyone) whether the outlined approach has been attempted for 
global-variable access optimisation?  i.e. is this an explored and 
deemed-dead path, or something new?

Enjoy,
Mike

Martin v. Loewis wrote:

>"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:
>
>  
>
>>Anyway, would be interested to know if someone C-knowledgable has done
>>this already and 1) integrated it into Python or psyco already, or 2)
>>decided it just isn't a feasible approach?
>>    
>>
>
>Local namespaces are accessed by integer index only, global namespaces
>are accessed by dictionary only; object attribute lookup uses complex
>procedures.
>
>Regards,
>Martin
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  6 14:03:53 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 11:03:53 -0800
Subject: Emacs and Indentation
In-Reply-To: <aqbcvb$6b65@eccws12.dearborn.ford.com>
References: <aqbcvb$6b65@eccws12.dearborn.ford.com>
Message-ID: <1036609434.23122.111.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Wed, 2002-11-06 at 07:37, Michael Tiller wrote:
[snip]
> does nothing in Emacs (v21.4, windows).  So, I have to go and indent using
> the TAB key.  The problem there is that Emacs doesn't really understand the
> block structure so I get:
> 
>     for x in mylist:
>         if not x in filled:
>             foo[x] = x[1]
>             bar[x] = x[2]
>             y = x # Yikes!
> 
[snip]
> 
>   Surely I can't be the only person who is bugged by this?  Are there ways
> around this?

You can also put a "pass" at the end of a block and emacs will treat
that as a block delimiter (at least in python-mode).  Sort of ugly IMO
but if this really bothers you it may be worth a try.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Nov 27 12:28:11 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 18:28:11 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> writes:

> So we were learning a new style of programming, functional
> programming, which we had to wrap our brains around.

> Now that I've gotten productive in Python, I may give Lisp another
> try, although I think I'll study Haskell first as a kind of
> stepping-stone (functional programming without the parentheses-heavy
> syntax).

You do realize that funcitonal programming is just one of the
programming paradigms that Lisp supports ?

(But I understand where you're coming from: I followed a small Lisp
course about a decade ago, and the Lisp that was presented there bears
very little resemblance to what I have since discovered Lisp to be, in
reality.)

> But what I'd really like before I try Lisp again is a special
> color-highlighting mode that would distinguish between deeply-nested
> parentheses, either coloring the parentheses themselves or else all
> the text between said parentheses. Something like this:
> 
> (first
>     (second
>         (third
>             (fourth
>             )
>         )
>     )
> )

(Point of information: dangling parentheses are most definitely NOT
good Lisp code layout style.)

> where each indentation level would be a different color (foreground?
> background?).

... Just curious ... have you ever felt the need for such an
indentation-based colour-highlighting feature when programming in
Python?

If so, has the lack of it hindered you from programming in Python ?

If not, what makes you think that it would be useful in Lisp?


From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov  3 11:51:21 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 16:51:21 GMT
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on OS/390 V2R10
References: <3dc40ef1_1@news.vo.lu> <us8rhmg4f2iac1@news.supernews.com> <3dc50045_2@news.vo.lu> <usa9i1cbjampc6@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ducx9.80943$TD1.3668663@news2.tin.it>

John Roth wrote:
   ...
>> our three teams (Windows, AIX and OS/390). I doubt that it will be an
   ...
> Also, I believe REXX is availible for all three environments. AFIC, it's
> a typical kludge scripting language, but it does work.

Me, I remember Rexx as a pretty good scripting language back from
the '80s, when I worked for IBM -- Rexx is what first gave me the
taste for using "scripting" languages wherever feasible.  I hear it
also took roots in the Amiga world, and I assume it must have
grown and developed in the 14 years since I last used it, but I
haven't kept track.  But what do you think is "a typical kludge"
about it?


Alex



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Nov  5 16:41:15 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 21:41:15 GMT
Subject: how to import
References: <aq92co$iu9$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <%VWx9.2705$h%5.96261@newsb.telia.net>

Fedor wrote:

> [test1.py]
> #This setup doesn't work:
> import mx.DateTime
> class A:
>     def __init__(self):
>         print mx.DateTime.now()
>     def test(self):
>         print mx.DateTime.now()
>         import mx.ODBC
> a=A()
> #Results in: 2002-11-06 19:22:14.49
> a.test()
> #Results in: UnboundLocalError: local variable 'mx' referenced before
> assignment

full story:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/naming.html
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/import.html

summary:

"import" behaves like any other assignment statement.

inside the test method, the "import mx.ODBC" statement attempts to
assign a value (the module object) to the "mx" variable.

the compiler notices this, and flags "mx" as a local variable.  since "mx"
is a local variable, you cannot refer to it before it has been assigned a
value.

to fix this, either add a "global mx" statement to the method, or move
the import statement to the top of the method.

</F>




From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sat Nov 23 21:14:25 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:14:25 -0800
Subject: Newbie Q on searching lists
References: <3DDF1673.4020203@nyc.rr.com> <mailman.1038036812.7653.python-list@python.org> <3DDF3C32.4060205@nyc.rr.com> <87wun4wnv0.fsf@key.localdomain> <3DDFA5F5.2070005@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1mcpra.0o4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Kenny Tilton fed this fish to the penguins on Saturday 23 November 2002 
07:58 am:

> 
> ah, that was my problem. i had looked only at list operations, not yet
> grokking the umbrella sequence quality. thx much.
> 

        Relax, I was about to suggest something on the order of:

if thisCalculator < len(calculators):   #len=4 means 0..3 are valid,
                                        #hence the <

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  3 17:57:45 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 15:57:45 -0700
Subject: Numerical & FFT
References: <pan.2002.11.03.22.40.14.914044@email.cz>
Message-ID: <aq49l9$m4f$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

David Siroky wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> Functions "fft" and "real_fft" returns some array. What those numbers
> exactly mean? Especially the first one (DC or what)?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> David
In [3]: fft?
Type:           function
Base Class:     <type 'function'>
String Form:    <function fft at 0x81f87fc>
Namespace:      Interactive
File:           /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/Numeric/FFT/FFT.py
Definition:     fft(a, n=None, axis=-1)
Docstring:
    fft(a, n=None, axis=-1)

    Will return the n point discrete Fourier transform of a. n defaults to the
    length of a. If n is larger than a, then a will be zero-padded to make up
    the difference. If n is smaller than a, the first n items in a will be
    used.

    The packing of the result is "standard": If A = fft(a, n), then A[0]
    contains the zero-frequency term, A[1:n/2+1] contains the
    positive-frequency terms, and A[n/2+1:] contains the negative-frequency
    terms, in order of decreasingly negative frequency. So for an 8-point
    transform, the frequencies of the result are [ 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, -3, -2, -1].

    This is most efficient for n a power of two. This also stores a cache of
    working memory for different sizes of fft's, so you could theoretically
    run into memory problems if you call this too many times with too many
    different n's.


In [4]: real_fft?
Type:           function
Base Class:     <type 'function'>
String Form:    <function real_fft at 0x827101c>
Namespace:      Interactive
File:           /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/Numeric/FFT/FFT.py
Definition:     real_fft(a, n=None, axis=-1)
Docstring:
    real_fft(a, n=None, axis=-1)

    Will return the n point discrete Fourier transform of the real valued
    array a. n defaults to the length of a. n is the length of the input, not
    the output.

    The returned array will be the nonnegative frequency terms of the
    Hermite-symmetric, complex transform of the real array. So for an 8-point
    transform, the frequencies in the result are [ 0, 1, 2, 3, 4]. The first
    term will be real, as will the last if n is even. The negative frequency
    terms are not needed because they are the complex conjugates of the
    positive frequency terms. (This is what I mean when I say
    Hermite-symmetric.)

    This is most efficient for n a power of two.

cheers,

f


From graik at web.de  Wed Nov  6 17:43:02 2002
From: graik at web.de (Raik Gruenberg)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:43:02 +0100
Subject: segmentation fault when unpickling an object in another Python
 instance
References: <3DC96AAD.9090503@web.de> <eAWdnTH219An7FSgXTWcqA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3DC99AF6.2030906@web.de>

It's not cPickle specific - I got the same segmentation fault when using 
  normal pickle.

Getting a minimum example will take some time and it can get quite long. 
I can switch off the error by deleting a line in the constructor of the 
pickled object...

Summary so far, I can not unpickle my object if:
- The constructor of this object called (before pickling) a certain 
method of an internally referenced object
- this internal object encapsulates an Numeric array
- the certain method deletes parts of this array (via Numeric.compress )

Rings a bell for someone??

Anyway, I'll see what I can do.
All comments are welcome !

Raik


Terry Reedy wrote:
> "Raik Gruenberg" <graik at web.de> wrote in message
> news:3DC96AAD.9090503 at web.de...
> 
> 
>>I have got some home-made class. From within the same Python
> 
> interpreter
> 
>>  I can create, dump and load it back without any problem. But, if I
> 
> try
> 
>>to load it after re-starting the interpreter, I end up with a
>>segmentation fault.
>>
> 
>>Obviously, it is also somewhat the fault of this
>>particular class. I narrowed down the problem somewhat. But, before
>>bothering you with all the details, perhaps anyone knows this
> 
> problem or
> 
>>has some promising idea???
> 
> 
> There have been some known problems with CPickle and some patches, but
> in the absence of keyword searching of the SourceForge database, I
> won't guess as to specifics and relation to your problem.  You may be
> asked for minimum example that exhibits problem.
> 
> TJR
> 
> 




From richard.mertens at wolfi.org  Mon Nov  4 10:43:25 2002
From: richard.mertens at wolfi.org (Richard Mertens)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 15:43:25 GMT
Subject: problem's with strings
Message-ID: <Xns92BCAA1CFC4D0richardmertenswolfio@130.133.1.4>

first problem:

I'd like to convert a text-file von unix to windows and vice versa

Do you know a solution for this


When the python script is reading the text-file i have always the Nextline - 
Character on the end. How do you I remove it?




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 25 10:37:18 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:37:18 -0500
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <LqrE9.85236$iw.52368@FE06>

Interesting that none of the responders referenced a FAQ article ... though
since it refers to 2.0 as a future release it's clearly in some need of
updating!

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq06.030.htp

regards
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/
Previous .sig file retired to                    www.homeforoldsigs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Andr? N?ss" <andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:arqm0r$s6f$1 at maud.ifi.uio.no...
> When I started learning Python one of the things that surprised me was
that
> you couldn't do assignments inside the if clause, e.g.:
>
> if myvar = someFunction():
>
> My question is, what is the rationale for this? Is it a technical issue?
Or
> purely a matter of language design? I'm curious because I'm interested in
> the design og programming languages, not because I want this behavior
> changed in Pyton :)
>
> Thanks.
> Andr? N?ss
>
>
>





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 29 15:33:58 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:33:58 -0500
Subject: Newbie Question, list = list + x VS append (x)
References: <mh4euu095fqqm9bmcgrpdrcvb5emgpkhlm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hbSdnaJxqLZ8U3qgXTWcqA@comcast.com>

Seq + seq (of same type) is sequence concatenation: len(r+s) =
len(r)+len(s)

>>> 'a'+'b'
'ab'
>>> (1,)+(2,)
(1, 2)
>>> [1]+[2]
[1, 2]
>>> (1,)+[2]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: can only concatenate tuple (not "list") to tuple

While not commutative, seq + is associative with identity (empty seq
of type) and is thus a reduction operator.  Ie, reduce(tuple.__add__,
tuples, ()) => tuple, etc

list.append(object), specific to lists, simply tacks object on to the
end of list.
It never looks at the type of object.  If it is a list, that is
irrelevant.

list.extend(seq) is similar to list+seq but is more general.

Terry J. Reedy





From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Nov 11 11:13:31 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:13:31 +0100
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
In-Reply-To: <u4raorv6r.fsf@scientia.com>; from Paul_Rudin@scientia.com on Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 03:18:52PM +0000
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037014155.15486.python-list@python.org> <uel9sryab.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037025979.11547.python-list@python.org> <u4raorv6r.fsf@scientia.com>
Message-ID: <20021111171331.V30315@prim.han.de>

Paul Rudin wrote:
> >>>>> "hk" == holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:
>  >> - there's a degree of obfuscation here, the code is less
>  >> comprehensible than something like: if x then y else z.
> 
>  hk> IMO it's not overly hard to get used to it. It certainly isn't as
>  hk> evident (as has the aforementioned pitfall) as in some other
>  hk> languages.  Funny enough, i don't need this ternary operation
>  hk> often.
> 
>  hk> And if one the expressions is more complex i use a proper
>  hk> if-clause.
> 
> I guess these things depend on what you're used to - I now program
> mostly in lisp; I used to program mostly in c++; I'm very used to
> using such a construct. Using an if-then-else type construct without a
> return value makes some code rather inelegant, it seems to me. But no
> doubt one can get used to it.

yes.  But i also said that with python i don't need this ternary
operator often (usually in cases where applying the 'x and y or z' 
is no problem).  It happend to me that instead of using a ternary
operator i cut simplify, shorten *and* enhance my program by not 
doing so.  Is there an obvious killer use case?  IOW can you
state a problem where the use of a ternary operator comes in
really handy?  Sorry if this sounds dumb to you but i am interested.

regards,

    holger



From tundra at tundraware.com  Mon Nov 11 19:20:07 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 00:20:07 GMT
Subject: Tkinter listbox selection handling
References: <co6kqa.tqk2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <mailman.1037003594.13731.python-list@python.org> <mcuoqa.6be.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <mailman.1037053156.28712.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <05hpqa.vpi.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

Martin Franklin wrote:

<SNIP>

> There must be something else in the code your not showing (the code you
> posted did not work out of the bx...)  This works:-
> 
> #### start
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> class myUI:
>     def __init__(self, root):
>         self.listbox = Listbox(root,
>             selectmode=SINGLE,
>             exportselection=0)
>         self.listbox.pack()
> root = Tk()
> UI = myUI(root)
> 
> 
> def handlerfunc(event):
>     print event.widget.get(first=event.widget.curselection()[0])
> 
> UI.listbox.insert("end", "1")
> UI.listbox.insert("end", "2")
> UI.listbox.insert("end", "3")
> UI.listbox.insert("end", "4")
> 
> 
> UI.listbox.bind('<ButtonRelease-1>', handlerfunc)
> 
> root.mainloop()
> 
> #### end
> 
> 
> Tested just a few seconds ago on a RedHat Linux 8.0 Python 2.2.2
> Tk 8.4 and Python 2.2.2 Tk 8.3
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Martin.


I must have had some other artifacts that were breaking things when I
tried <ButtonRelease-1> previously. It now works fine, exactly as you
suggest...

Thanks, all, for taking the time to help ...


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Fri Nov 22 17:32:43 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:32:43 -0500
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <uttc45cdkdq7f7@news.supernews.com>

"Eric Brunel" <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> wrote in message
news:arle6m$aa9$1 at news-reader11.wanadoo.fr...


> In
> addition, today, min(None, x) and max(None, x) work, but have strange
> results: as far as I can see, min(None, x) is always None and
max(None, x)
> is always x, but this behaviour isn't documented.

It's not documented *separately.* It's a consequence of the
documented fact that comparisons between objects that don't
have an obvious ordering will always have a consistent, although
arbitrary order. This behavior is documented to be changable
between releases, however.

See the Python Library Reference, 2.1.3 (Comparisons) for
Release 2.1. It's right under note 1. That's section 2.2.3 for
Python 2.2.2.

One consequence of this is that in another release, None might
compare high rather than low. I rather doubt that it ever would,
but the possibility is there.

John Roth





From ELabuschane at gmsonline.co.za  Tue Nov 12 02:49:28 2002
From: ELabuschane at gmsonline.co.za (Etienne Labuschagne)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:49:28 +0200
Subject: p2exe and ZODB
Message-ID: <E1C538E38148D611A3F90040F428459101D175@esrimail>

Hi there,

First, an apology, my M$ Outlook INSISTS on sending HTML-spew, even though I
have all settings I can find on Text only and the status bar says Plain Text
:(

I gather from the context of my message that you also only have this problem
under Py2EXE (does Py2EXE work at all on *Nix?).  If not, it's quite strange
as ZODB works perfectly in a normal Python environment for me - it's just
doing strange things when working in a py2exe environment.  I have just
started investigating McMillan's installer product, but have had no luck so
far in getting it to wrap ZODB.  If I can get it to work, I'll post the
solution.

Regards
Etienne

-----Original Message-----
From: Harry George [mailto:hgg9140 at seanet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:05 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: p2exe and ZODB


Etienne Labuschagne <ELabuschane at gmsonline.co.za> writes:

> Content-type: text/html ; charset = "iso-8859-1"
> 
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
> <HTML>
> <HEAD>
> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
> <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
> <TITLE>p2exe and ZODB</TITLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=2>Hi there,</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=2>I am using stand-alone ZODB (Zope Object Database) in a
applica
> tion written in Python.&nbsp; The platform I am targeting is Windows 2000
and W
> indows XP.&nbsp; So far I had no luck&nbsp; py2exe'ing the product with
ZODB in
> cluded.&nbsp; What I have done is to exclude ZODB (-e flag for py2exe) and
crea
> te an install without the stand-alone ZODB.&nbsp; I then manually copy the
ZODB
>  and all files needed by it (eg. base64) into the dist created by
py2exe.</FONT
> ></P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=2>This works, but I sometimes get (seemingly) random
pickling err
> ors when calling get_transaction().commit() on the ZODB database.&nbsp;
This ca
> uses a lot of havoc as the transaction then also seems to be lost, which
is VER
> Y bad!</FONT></P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=2>Anyone had any luck with py2exe and apps using
ZODB?</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=2>If I can't get this to work, are there any other
&quot;python n
> ot needed for install&quot; methods to package my product in?</FONT>
> </P>

I'm having trouble using standalone ZODB, with ramdom pickling errors
on commit as well.  I'm running on Linux, not Win**.  Maybe there is a
problem in ZODB?  My next attempt is to do the pickling directly, and
just make a database to store those strings.


> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=2>Regards</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Etienne Labuschagne</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> </BODY>
> </HTML>

-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 15 13:09:58 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:09:58 -0500
Subject: keyword arguments and **
References: <3dd51831$0$13642$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl> <w68B9.12486$744.448146@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <DrSdncWBrfWrqkigXTWcoA@comcast.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:w68B9.12486$744.448146 at news1.tin.it...
> Usual problem: when an argument (here, fields) has a default
> value that is mutable, that value is determined ONCE, when the
> def statement executes -- then that single value stays around
> (the function object references it), and if you mutate it you
> get such a "memory effect".

I would just add that if def occurs within a function called multiple
times, then default args are alse evaluated multiple times, but just
once for each execution of the def statemeant -- which is just once
for each function object produced.  (And if outer function is never
called, defaults are never evaluated.)

Terry J. Reedy




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 13 12:02:42 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 17:02:42 GMT
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD1AB92.3030409@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <aqu0ji$rgg$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:32:02 +1300, Greg Ewing <see_reply_address at something.invalid> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>>  >>> def mkfoo():
>>  ...     from math import pi
>>  ...     def foo():
>>  ...         return pi
>>  ...     return foo
>>  ...
>> 
>> What would be best Pythonic practice for getting a foo2? It seems like if there were
>> a way to say "do this part once at compile time"
>
>
>It's not really compile-time that we want to do it,
>but module load time, or perhaps function definition
>time.
>
Well, ok, I was speaking loosely of compile-time as the time between reading source
and when final executable byte codes are laid down, but of course it's more complex
than that (especially with Python), as mkfoo incidentally demonstrates.

But the general idea is to find points in the sequence where one could intercede with
some meta-operations to modify code that gets executed at the end of the cascade.

You mention load time and function definition time. (Class definition time would seem
to similar, with metaclasses aready providing much control). Also, execfile time has
some things in common with module load time. Is there a unified "-time" concept re both?
Are there different possibly useful intercession points in loading .py vs .pyc?

What other "-times" can be clearly identified? If we had macros, I'm sure there would
be a "macro-interpretation time" (read-time?) associated with that. (BTW, how about times
associated with encoding transformations of source and i/o?)

But, getting back to foo/mkfoo, the intent was to set up values for efficient access
and to release unneeded references as soon as possible, compiling (in a narrower sense)
the source effectively partitioned into code and metacode for execution at appropriate
separate times to yield a clean foo function.

>One way would be to use a default-argument hack:
>
Which would be a definition-time binding, I guess you would say?

>    import math
>
>    def foo(m = math):
>       return m.pi
>
>but this has all the usual drawbacks of the default-argument
>hack.
Plus that version retains a reference to math, where I'd like to think that
I would wind up with just a reference to a double with the 3.14.. value. I.e.,
     def foo(pi = math.pi):
         return pi

(not that I want to pursue the default-argument hack, just to indicate that
whatever the methodology, I don't think the generated code should be forcing persistence
of anything it doesn't really need).
>
>This suggests that perhaps there should be a way
>of getting something that is just like a default
>argument, except that it's not part of the argument
>list. Maybe
>
>    def foo():
>       const m = math
>       return m.pi
>
>The "const" statement would be evaluated when
>the "def" was executed, and "m" would appear in the
>local namespace when the function was called.
>
>Although "const" might not be the best name for
>it, since it's not really a constant, more like
>a local with an initial value.
>
Yes. Also I think I would like a keyword that governs
a block scope instead of just the scope of an assignment. E.g.,
(resisting the temptation of discovering a general mechanism here ;-)

    def foo():
        predef:
            import math
            pi = math.pi
            del math
            seven = 7
        return pi, seven

meaning the predef block would be done once at define-time, and you
could do whatever you wanted to predefine the local environment that
would be seen at the first call (execution-time). You could also delete
unneeded bindings as above. This kind of flexibility would be hard if not
impossible to get with 'const' & such. I'm not sure whether a postdef:
section would be of use, but if so these things should probably be
subsumed under a single keyword (e.g. "meta" for "meta predef: and "meta postdef" ?)
especially if one anticipated other contexts of use as well.

The predef block looks like a kind of meta-code, and I would think the
compiler could generate a code block for that separate from the code of
the function body that defines what is called at execution time (foo), loosely
corresponding to mkfoo and foo code in the example, not a single body with
a special conditional part and references hanging on to things beyond their
intial and only use.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From mgilfix at eecs.tufts.edu  Fri Nov 29 15:20:59 2002
From: mgilfix at eecs.tufts.edu (Michael Gilfix)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:20:59 -0500
Subject: How to install with -O?
In-Reply-To: <as6dvn$6gt$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1038511660.30945.python-list@python.org> <as6dvn$6gt$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20021129202059.GC13460@eecs.tufts.edu>

  Hi Aahz. So, I can just set the PYTHONOPTIMIZE variable in my
setup.py and python will take care of itself (both in unix n'
windows)? Perhaps I should work on a distutils patch...

                    -- Mike

On Thu, Nov 28 @ 19:56, Aahz wrote:
> In article <mailman.1038511660.30945.python-list at python.org>,
> Michael Gilfix  <mgilfix at eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:
> >
> >  Hi all. I've been using __debug__ in my python programs with the
> >hope to byte-compile my programs with -O on install and remove the
> >__debug__ code. However, I haven't figured out quite how to do this
> >with distutils, and some searching through the documentation didn't
> >reveal anything. Has anyone solved this problem?
> 
> Unfortunately, there are only two ways to force optimized mode: running
> "python -O" and setting PYTHONOPTIMIZE.

-- 
Michael Gilfix
mgilfix at eecs.tufts.edu

For my gpg public key:
http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~mgilfix/contact.html



From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 13 11:32:02 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:32:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: os.system and wget
References: <7d728336.0211130756.3e39a748@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnat5d53.pe.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia 13 Nov 2002 07:56:48 -0800, zunbeltz napisa?(a):
> I've download a web in a python script with
> os.system('wget -q -O foo.txt http://foo.html')
> but later (in same script) i can't open foo.txt
> When the script finished the foo.txt is there, correctly donwloaded.
> What is wrong?

1. Use full/absolute paths:
   os.system('/usr/local/bin/wget -q -O/tmp/foo.txt http://URL')

2. Use exceptions:

import sys, os
try:
   os.system('command')
except:
   print sys.exc_info()[1]
   sys.exit()

HTH.

-- 
[ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ ]
[ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) underground.org.pl  ]


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Mon Nov 11 12:32:01 2002
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:32:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [OT] Cameras (was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?)
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqgka6$t8j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqh2bo$7ti$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <aqh745$1iv$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqhata$ctr$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <aqopih$nnt$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?= <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:

>ps. The above doesn't quite apply to 'prosumer' digital P&S like the Canon 
>G2/G3. Because the sensor is so small, those cameras actually have decent 
>zooms. And they also have all the manual controls typical of an SLR. That's 
>because it's the only way the companies can sell to the market who wants 
>manual control but can't afford a 2k-8k true digital SLR.

The G2 was what I went for in the end.  I'm happy and fairly impressed.  Time
to learn a bit about photography I suppose.

Eddie


From mchermside at ingdirect.com  Thu Nov 14 13:03:33 2002
From: mchermside at ingdirect.com (Chermside, Michael)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:03:33 -0500
Subject: Unit testing - Using Java Mock Objects in Python?
Message-ID: <902A1E710FEAB740966EC991C3A38A8903C35B10@INGDEXCHANGEC1.ingdirect.com>

> > It would be great to have available the Java Mock classes available to 
> > be used from Python.
> 
> Could you describe shortly what makes Mock valuable for you?
> I wasn't able understand the distinct features of Mock Objects from
> the web site.  Is it that the framework manage deploying stubs rather 
> than the real code? 

Short answer: yes. Long explanation for those not familiar with it:

JUnit, and it's close partner, Python's unittest module, are both tools
that help you to EXECUTE your unit tests. They handle issues like
how to run a bunch of tests at once, how to set up for and clean up
after the tests, how to declare that you expect a certain result during
a test, or that you expect an exception to be thrown.

JUnit and unittest have lots of things that they DON'T do. For instance,
they DON'T automagically write the tests for you (you have to actually
write some lines of code to specify each test you want to run). They
don't track coverage (to ensure every line of code or every possible
code branch gets executed), although this might be possible with
ADDITIONAL libraries.

One other problem they don't solve is that of simulating external
services. Suppose you write a program (in Java OR Python... the principle
is the same) which reads from and writes to an Oracle database. Now,
your unit tests need to test out code like "FindUserInDb()", and
"DeleteAllUsersFromDB()". But if you REALLY invoke DeleteAllUsersFromDB
on the real DB instance, it could be disasterous. The ideal solution
might be to set up a separate instance of the database just for
testing, but that makes for AWEFULLY slow setup()/teardown() methods
and may be downright impossible (Oracle licenses aren't cheap!). You
can easily see that the same problem extends to other external services
besides Oracle databases.

The usual design pattern for addressing this is called "mock objects".
Basically, instead of using a REAL database connection object, you use
a "fake" object, which simply remembers the arguments passed to it
(so you can check to make sure they are what was expected by the test)
and returns "rigged" outputs (so you can make the test go the way you
wanted it to go). This kind of thing is actually QUITE EASY to do in
Python, because the design of the language makes it easy to write
generic handlers (using __getattr__, __setattr__, and friends). In Java
it's a bit harder, but the folks at www.mockobjects.com have written
some fairly good ones and they accept contributions.

As for the original question, I don't know of a way to use java mock
objects to debug Jython (or python) code. But there are a few places
it could still be useful. One example would be the above... if your
Jython code is accessing a database via JDBC, you could stub it out 
using the mockobjects JDBC mock classes. But to create a mock of a
Python class, you're better off writing it in Python... it'll be
easier to write, and more powerful to boot (better introspection and
flexibility via __getattr__ & friends).

-- Michael Chermside



From exarkun at meson.dyndns.org  Sun Nov 24 14:36:14 2002
From: exarkun at meson.dyndns.org (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:36:14 -0500
Subject: Guido's regrets: filter and map
In-Reply-To: <arqrso$b2j$1@wheel2.two14.net>
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <9PvekLArvL49Ewa2@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <arqrso$b2j$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <20021124193614.GA19543@meson.dyndns.org>

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 03:40:09PM +0000, maney at pobox.com wrote:
> Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > I repeatedly get
> > 
> > for loop took 5.81
> > list comprehension took 8.16
> > map took 4.23
> > 
> > with 2.2.2 win32 on a 1GHz pentium.
> 
> [snip setup, timings]
> 
> ### revised test with filtering
> from time import time
> 
> n = 1000000
> N = xrange(n)
> 
> t0 = time()
> S=[]
> a = S.append
> for x in N:
>     if x % 2 == 1:
>         a(str(x))
> print 'for loop took %.2f to make a list of %d items' % ((time()-t0), len(S))
> 
> del S
> t0 = time()
> S = [str(x) for x in N if x % 2 == 1]
> print 'list comprehension took %.2f to make a list of %d items' % ((time()-t0), len(S))
> 
> del S
> t0 = time()
> S = map(str,filter(lambda x: x % 2 == 1, N))
> print 'map took %.2f to make a list of %d items' % ((time()-t0), len(S))
> ###
> 

  On my P2 Linux machine w/ Python 2.2.2:

for loop took 17.74 to make a list of 500000 items
list comprehension took 17.24 to make a list of 500000 items
map took 12.72 to make a list of 500000 items

However, changing the last filter to:

S = map(str,filter((2).__rmod__, N))

(which is equivalent) improves the final time to 7.74 seconds.  


> Interesting chages when the filter is changed to select every seventh
> item (s/x % 2/x % 7/ in three places):
> 
> maney at wheel2:~$ python sorry.py
> for loop took 2.57 to make a list of 142857 items
> list comprehension took 2.57 to make a list of 142857 items
> map took 2.94 to make a list of 142857 items
> 
> maney at wheel2:~$ python2.2 sorry.py
> for loop took 2.58 to make a list of 142857 items
> list comprehension took 2.46 to make a list of 142857 items
> map took 3.24 to make a list of 142857 items

  Adding this 4th test:

def seventh(n):
    for e in n:
        if e % 7 == 1:
            yield e

del S
t0 = time()
S = map(str, seventh(N))
print 'mapping generator took %.2f to make a list of %d items' % (
    (time()-t0), len(S))

 (and reverting the map/filter, since the trick doesn't work for 7 ;) gave
me...

for loop took 7.48 to make a list of 142857 items
list comprehension took 7.37 to make a list of 142857 items
map took 8.80 to make a list of 142857 items
map took 6.68 to make a list of 142857 items

  showing us once again that function calls are slow, and to be avoided
where ever possible! ;)

  I did notice one other solution that is orders of magnitudes faster than
the above, it involves passing a couple extra parameters to range().  I'll
leave determining exactly what it is as an exercise for the reader...

    Jp

> 
> Okay, that's enough for now.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
In the days when Sussman was a novice Minsky once came to him as he sat
hacking at the PDP-6. "What are you doing?" asked Minsky. "I am training a
randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe." "Why is the net wired
randomly?" asked Minsky. "I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how
to play." Minsky shut his eyes. "Why do you close your eyes?" Sussman asked
his teacher. "So the room will be empty." At that moment, Sussman was
enlightened.
 --
 2:08am up 22 days, 13:02, 6 users, load average: 0.08, 0.10, 0.09
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From tundra at tundraware.com  Sat Nov  9 01:40:07 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 06:40:07 GMT
Subject: Determining Presence Of GUI Support
Message-ID: <42aiqa.jp82.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

Is there a portable method of determining whether the current runtime
environment supports a GUI or text-based interface?  I would like to
write a single program which autosenses the presentation environment
and works accordingly.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Mon Nov 11 11:52:12 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (dave at pythonapocrypha.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:52:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PEP #99484663
In-Reply-To: <1036990754.1525.123.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211110837190.24362-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 10 Nov 2002, Ian Bicking wrote:

> On Sun, 2002-11-10 at 21:48, Dave Brueck wrote:
> > You don't hear of long-time Python users complaining about the indentation
> > thing; 
> 
> As an exception, anyone who uses or implements Python-embedded-in-HTML
> style systems wants (and usually adds) an explicit block delimiter. 
> It's essential in that domain.

That's one way to look at it, sure, but I'd argue that either (1) Python
is the wrong tool in that circumstance or (2) it's an un-Pythonic approach
to solving that problem.

Setting aside the issue of whether or not it's a good idea to mix logic
and presentation that closely anyway, the fact that Python + HTML (with OR
without a delimiter) is so ugly should be a strong indication that there's
something wrong. ISTM that using a block delimiter is a band-aid fix to a
symptom where the real problem is that you're trying to do something in
Python a certain way because that's the way it's done in other languages,
rather than it being the best approach to the problem.

FWIW, I don't find the blocks-of-code-embedded-in-HTML to work that well 
in other languages, either. :) It has always felt like such a hack and the 
result is unreadable and thus tough to maintain.

-Dave




From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 13 19:03:16 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 16:03:16 -0800
Subject: Presenting Data neatly... how :)
In-Reply-To: <3dd2dd57$0$28316$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
References: <3dd2dd57$0$28316$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1037232196.22832.18.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 15:15, e-tones.co.uk wrote:
> Hi all, im wring a command line python app that outputs 5 lines of data to
> the user in the forum
> 
> Name1                       votes              %votes
> 
> so, an example output might be
> 
> Dell    45    40%
> Microsoft   60    56%
> IBM   4     5%
> 
> Is there anyway to format it like this:
> 
> Dell            45       40%
> Microsoft   60       56%
> IBM             4      5%

Sounds suspiciously like homework, so here's what you should turn in:


votes = {'Dell': 45, 'Microsoft':60, 'IBM': 4}

columns = {
    'Company': max([len(n) for n in votes.keys() + ['Company']]),
    'Votes': 3,
    'Percent': 4
    }

format = "%%-%(Company)ss  %%%(Votes)sd  %%%(Percent)s.0f%%%%" % columns

totalVotes = float(reduce(int.__add__, votes.values()))

for company in votes:
    percent = votes[company] / totalVotes * 100
    print format % (company, votes[company], percent)
    


Be prepared to give a detailed explanation regarding how each line works
to your instructor ;)


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 22 09:35:07 2002
From: Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com (Mark)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:35:07 GMT
Subject: Boost.Python sans Jam
References: <zqiD9.19233$We5.9390@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <vgrD9.28772$Q27.17345@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

I have this horrible tendency to work on something for awhile, post about 
it, go to bed, wake up, look for an answer to the post, spend another hour 
working on it, and produce the answer to my own question!

In short, I wanted to compile a Boost.Python python extension without doing 
it from within the boost code hierarchy (as the boost examples and tutorial 
do).

I set up ~/include/boost and ~/include/boost/python with all of boost's 
include files [although I don't believe they are all needed ... I only 
think ~/include/boost/python.hpp and ~/include/boost/python/* are 
necessary].

I set up ~/lib/ with libboost_python.so*, libboost_python_debug.so*
libboost_python.so.1.29.0*, and libboost_python_debug.so.1.29.0* .

Now, I realized I needed to do one thing before running [not necessarily 
before compiling my "boostable" extension]:

export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=~/lib

To compile, I used the following command line [there may be some unnecessary 
stuff in here]:

g++ hello.cpp -I/home/mfenner/include -I/usr/include/python2.2/ 
-L/usr/lib/python2.2/config -L/home/mfenner/lib -lpython2.2 -lboost_python 
-o hello.so -shared

Basically, I needed to specify the include files for boost and python, the 
library paths for both the python2.2 and boost_python libraries, and 
specify shared so g++ produces an shared object file.

Now I can just type, in python:

>>>import hello
>>>hello.greet()

Regards,
Mark


From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Fri Nov 15 18:40:44 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:40:44 GMT
Subject: Permutations algoritm?
References: <mailman.1037397424.5900.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <s31btuoi6e31h03g6mv0nmqprqp0csk6pn@4ax.com>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:51:04 -0600, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
(edit)
>Of a set of different items 'S', obtain all distinct subsets of 'n'
>items where all items in the subset are different.
>
>So, if I have, for example:
>
>   S = [ 0, 1, 2, 3 ]
>
>the universe of available subsets of 3 items would be:
>
>   s = [ (0, 1, 2),
>         (0, 1, 3),
>         (0, 2, 3),
>         (1, 2, 3) ]
>
>the universe of available subsets of 2 items would be:
>
>   s = [ (0, 1),
>         (0, 2),
>         (0, 3),
>         (1, 2),
>         (1, 3),
>         (2, 3) ]

import pprint

def _subsets_ofsize_help(n, m):
    if m == 0:
        return [ [] ]
    elif n == 0:
        return []
    elif m == 1:
        return [ [i] for i in range(n) ]
    else:
        s0 = _subsets_ofsize_help(n-1,m)
        s1 = _subsets_ofsize_help(n-1,m-1)
        for i in range(len(s1)):
            s1[i].append(n-1)
        s0.extend(s1)
        return s0

def _subsets_help(n):
    s = [ [] ]
    if n == 0: return s
    for i in range(n):
        s0 = _subsets_ofsize_help(n,i+1)
        s0.sort()
        s.extend(s0)
    return s

def DistinctSubsets(set):
    return [ tuple([set[i] for i in s])
             for s in _subsets_help(len(set)) ]

pprint.pprint(
    DistinctSubsets(
        ('Sunday',
         'Monday',
         'Tuesday',
         'Wednesday',
         'Thursday')) )

----Output-----

[(),
 ('Sunday',),
 ('Monday',),
 ('Tuesday',),
 ('Wednesday',),
 ('Thursday',),
 ('Sunday', 'Monday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Tuesday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Wednesday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Monday', 'Tuesday'),
 ('Monday', 'Wednesday'),
 ('Monday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Tuesday', 'Wednesday'),
 ('Tuesday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Wednesday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Monday', 'Tuesday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Monday', 'Wednesday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Monday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Tuesday', 'Wednesday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Tuesday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Wednesday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Monday', 'Tuesday', 'Wednesday'),
 ('Monday', 'Tuesday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Monday', 'Wednesday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Tuesday', 'Wednesday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Monday', 'Tuesday', 'Wednesday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Monday', 'Tuesday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Monday', 'Wednesday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Tuesday', 'Wednesday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Monday', 'Tuesday', 'Wednesday', 'Thursday'),
 ('Sunday', 'Monday', 'Tuesday', 'Wednesday', 'Thursday')]

Manuel


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Nov 17 18:48:23 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:48:23 -0500
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
In-Reply-To: <m2vg2vsy2i.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEGOCMAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[John Hunter, explains stability in sorting]
> ...
> Incidentally, the efficiency of sort in the yet-to-be-released
> python2.3 is rumored to be substantially improved.

For random data, it seems platform-dependent which wins, with more platforms
seemingly giving the edge to the 2.3 sort due to cache effects.  Both
methods do very close to the theoretical minimum # of compares on randomly
ordered data, so there was no room for "deep" improvement on random data
(and I'm just talking about CPython there; Jython's sort was a variant of
CPython's much older quicksort, and Jython benefited a lot even on random
data when Finn Bock ported the new sort to Java).

Where the 2.3 sort kicks ass is in exploiting many more kinds of partial
pre-existing order.  Lots of real data *is* partially ordered already, and
the algorithm discovers that and adapts to it, saving mountains of
comparisons when possible.

BTW, the 2.3 sort is stable, although the language specification doesn't
guarantee that.




From abidnego25 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 14 14:29:18 2002
From: abidnego25 at yahoo.com (les)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 11:29:18 -0800
Subject: parsing python code
Message-ID: <653cf871.0211141129.681e5dd7@posting.google.com>

Hi,
i would like to find out the function call tree of a python
code. i.e.
say i have a code like this:
def fun111():
   ..
def fun11():
   fun111()
  
def fun1():
   fun11()
   fun12()

if __name__ =='__main__':
    fun1()
then i would like to build a dictionary like this

d ={ 'root': '__name__',
      '__name__': ['fun1']
      'fun1': [ 'fun11','fun12'],
      'fun11': [ 'fun111']
   }

it is easy to parse out function names from the code,
but not so easy to jump around to figure the tree structure.
is there a module which exports some function when
given a functionname returns all the functions it calls?
(only those functions that are in the source code)

so far i have something like this
that removes the function names
but before i try the brute force way,i wanted to ask if there is already 
a module that does what i want

######################################
from sys import argv,exit,stdin


if __name__ == '__main__':
	try:
		codefile = argv[1]
	except IndexError:
		print 'USAGE %s <file>' % argv[0]
	        exit(-1)
        #pull out function names
	fp = open(codefile)
	fun_names=[]
	for x in fp:
		if x[0:3]=='def':
			fun_names.append( x.split()[1].split('(')[0])
	print fun_names
	fp.close()
	# go thought the file again and build nested list
	nested={}
	fp = open(codefile)
	
        ################ I NEED HELP HERE
	
	fp.close()

thanks


From rjkuhns at geetel.net  Wed Nov 27 10:53:31 2002
From: rjkuhns at geetel.net (Richard Kuhns)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:53:31 -0500
Subject: Tkinter scrolling canvas questions
Message-ID: <20021127105331.7368a20c.rjkuhns@geetel.net>

I'd appreciate any comments or suggestions on the best way to proceed with
a problem.  I'm fairly new to GUI programming, and I'd appreciate some
pointers.

I have a list of lists of (name, variable) tuples I'd like to display.  In
addition, I want to allow the variable's value to be changed/editted.  It
looks something like:

li = [
      [("a", a), ("b", b), "c", c)],
      [("d", d), ("e", e), "f", f)]
    ]

There's no limit on how many elements li can have, but each element will
be the same size.

What I have in mind right now is to create a Frame for each element of the
toplevel list.  Each Frame would contain Label and Entry widgets for each
tuple in that element.  After each Frame is created I would then append it
to the end of a vertically scrollable Canvas.

Does this sound reasonable?  If so, is there a good way to determine a
good size for the canvas?  Each frame in the canvas will be a single line;
how do I query the Label and Entry widgets to determine the size of the
font being used?  I've been studying the Tkinter section of Programming
Python 2E but I haven't been able to track down what I need.  The word
"font" doesn't even appear in the index :(.  Are there any other "gotchas"
I should watch out for?

Thanks...
	- Dick

-- 
Richard Kuhns			rjkkuhns at geetel.net



From tudisco at sexmagnet.com  Mon Nov  4 16:08:01 2002
From: tudisco at sexmagnet.com (Jason Tudisco)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 13:08:01 -0800
Subject: Need simple algorithm for newbie
References: <d1a9617c.0211040433.1eddb118@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d1a9617c.0211041308.533b3c5@posting.google.com>

Thanks everyone for you help...

I also got this in my email.. Wanted to post it here also.. just in
case somebody else was interested.

thanks.. you guys have been lots of help

------------------

Note if the list origonally came from a file (one per line), then:

sed 's/^[^.]*\.\([^.]*\)\.\([^.]*\)/\1.\2/' <domains | grep -E
"(com|org|net)$"
| sort -u

tudisco at sexmagnet.com (Jason Tudisco) wrote in message news:<d1a9617c.0211040433.1eddb118 at posting.google.com>...
> I have a list of domains... Some of the domain names in the list look
> like this:
> 
> groups.goodle.com
> 
> The information I want is just google.com. I need to know the best way
> to do this.. for .com .net .org only.. and to strip the rest of the
> garbage.. like in this case.. get rid of groups in groups.google.com
> 
> I need to parse though a huge list so it has to be optimized algorithm
> 
> No need to write complete code.. Just get me in the right direccion..
> Still learning python and I am not sure what would be the fastest way
> to go about it..


From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov 20 07:57:38 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:57:38 GMT
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net> <7h3zns4tpqr.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <1y5g2z6r.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <7h3vg2stna5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:
> 
> > Try executing
> > 
> > ulimit -c unlimited
> > 
> > before running your program.
> 
> Yup, works now.

Cool.

> > > Do I have to enable this?  Or is it possible to configure gdb so
> > > that it will automatically pop up to examine the program's state?
> > 
> > If you run your program under gdb (i.e. execute
> > 
> > $ gdb python
> > 
> > and type "run") then any signal -- including sig 11 -- will dump you
> > into gdb.
> 
> Ok, so I'll have to put a 'rawinput()' before the crashing code,
> and then press ^C, and set my breakpoints.

Usually I let gdb start python up as far as the interactive prompt,
use ^Z to get back to gdb, set breakpoints, use 'c' to continue my
program and run the problem code interactively.  In particular, using
^Z may be less confusing than using ^C.  Not sure, though.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Premature optimization is the root of all evil.
       -- Donald E. Knuth, Structured Programming with goto Statements


From lawrence_jesse at yahoo.ca  Thu Nov 21 10:28:12 2002
From: lawrence_jesse at yahoo.ca (Jesse Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:28:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Problem with list assignment
Message-ID: <20021121152812.80906.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm using the following function to retrieve the
headers from my mysql columns.  I want to shed the
extra info, and just maintain the name of the column. 
This might be really simple, but I can't seem to
figure out why the assigment of the headers to the
list header[] in my for loop isn't working.

Here's the function:

def mysqlFieldNames(conn):
   cursor = conn.cursor()
   cursor.execute ("DESCRIBE guestbook")
   row = cursor.fetchall()
   cursor.close()
   # here's the problem area:
   header = []
   i = 0;
   for r in row:
      header[i] = r[0]
      i = i + 1
   return header

Now, when I just do a print r[0] in the for loop, I'm
getting exactly what I want, it's just that when I try
to assign it to header, that I get a "list assignment
index out of range" error.

Am I overlooking something?

Thanks very much, 
Jesse Lawrence


______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From slawus at imf.au.dk  Sat Nov  9 09:17:23 2002
From: slawus at imf.au.dk (Slawus)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 15:17:23 +0100
Subject: MS Windows + Python + VTK -- how to install?
References: <aptd47$q52$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
Message-ID: <aqj5df$vq8$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>

Ok. This time I will try to ask better question:
I can not run VTK with my Python 2.2.2 on Win2k.

First: I have got Python for Windows and some
libraries for it working very well:

- Python 2.2.2 - binaries for win32
- Numeric 22 - binaries for win32
- numarray 0.3.6 - binaries for win32
- SciPy 2.0 alpha 145.4398 - binaries for win32
- wxPython 2.3.3 - binaries for win32
- PyOpenGL 2.0.0.44 - binaries for win32
- Python Imaging Library 1.1.2 - also binaries for win32

I test some examples from wxPython and I extensively
use SciPy and Numeric for some calculations.
As I said all above works very well.

Now, I want to use Visualization Toolkit (vtk) library.
I download this files:

- vtkNightlyCore.exe (ver. 11/9/2002)
- vtkNightlyPython.exe (ver. 11/9/2002)

and I have installed it in default directory:

c:\Program Files\vtkNightly

I have also add to windows PATH variable this directory:

c:\Program Files\vtkNightly\bin

I tried to add directories:

c:\Program Files\vtkNightly\bin
c:\Program Files\vtkNightly\Wrapping\Python

to PYTHONPATH in windows registry but it seems
not work becouse:

 >>> import sys
 >>> print sys.path

do not show them. But I add this two vtk directories
by hand by sys.path.append() command.
Command:

 >>> import vtk

when I put them first show:
---
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#1>", line 1, in ?
     import vtk
   File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\vtk_python\vtk\__init__.py", line 
7, in ?
     from common import *
   File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\vtk_python\vtk\common.py", line 
9, in ?
     from vtkCommonPython import *
ImportError: No module named vtkCommonPython
---
but when I repeat this twice it looks ok:

 >>> import vtk  #second time
 >>>

But I still can not use vtk:

---
 >>> cone = vtkConeSource()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in ?
     cone = vtkConeSource()
NameError: name 'vtkConeSource' is not defined
---

Please direct me what should I do to make VTK working?
Ps. I also try use setup.py from vtk python package.

-- 
Greetings. Slawomir Razniewski.



From kemu at sdf-eu.org  Sat Nov 23 11:47:48 2002
From: kemu at sdf-eu.org (Jonas Geiregat)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 17:47:48 +0100
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
In-Reply-To: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com>
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ddfb0be$0$86556$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

smartcardware.com wrote:

> Greetings!  I am the lead developer in a upcoming game company that
> will start work on a new game at the beginning of 2003.  We are (like
> everyone else in the gaming industry right now) searching for a
> scripting language to use in our game.  I've heard that Python is a
> great scripting language with one downfall for game
> designers/programmers.  That is that you must embed your code into
> Python, instead of convensional scripting langauges where you embed
> the scripting language into your code.  Basically we want to use
> scripting languages for AI, game items stats, player stats, and a few
> other things.  We'll use an advanced 3d engine (C++) for the rest.
>    What we don't want to have to develope our code around Python,
> rather develope our code and embed Python to fit our code when and
> where we desire.
>
> Any and all imput would be great!  Thanks!
>
> Venn Syii

And what is your question or point by posting this ?



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Mon Nov  4 04:49:21 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:49:21 -0000 
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDA85@intrepid>

> From:	Derek Thomson [SMTP:derek at wedgetail.com]
> Aahz wrote:
>  > She asked me what -- if any -- Java-based tools were used by
> > the experienced Java programmers who made that claim.  She thinks that
> > those tools are superior to plain text editors (which are really all
> > that's needed for Python).
> 
> Eclipse ... for about one day. Far too painful, (snip)
 
Hmm. Well, Java is my day job, and I've been using Eclipse for a year or so.
For me, the refactorings work just fine. Now, I've not used EMACS, so I
can't do a comparison, but Eclipse's refactorings are a *whole* lot better
that doing refactoring with a 'dumb' text editor.

The auto-completion and so on are also great. If you work with Java, and
aren't hairy-chested enough for EMACS, give Eclipse a try. You won't regret
it.

Unless you have less than 256MB, that is. ;-)

Reasonable-men-can-differ,-but-not-with-me-ly y'rs,
Simon B




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copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Nov 15 20:23:18 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:23:18 -0600
Subject: help plz ive been to atleast 10 different faqs and guides
In-Reply-To: <004801c28d0b$cdc93ef0$aed7bd18@mouseoh7s2nyon> (cmvb's message
 of "Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:02:15 -0500")
References: <004801c28d0b$cdc93ef0$aed7bd18@mouseoh7s2nyon>
Message-ID: <m2fzu2l33t.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "cmvb" == cmvb  <cmvb at optonline.net> writes:

    cmvb> um yes id like to make a program so when you ask a question
    cmvb> it responds with a preset set of random responses is this
    cmvb> possible?

Yep.  I just hope you aren't trying to write one of those spam bots
trying to imitate a person while advertising in a chat room.

import random
answers = ['Are you crazy?',
           'Exactly.',
           'Are you through yet?',
           'Yeah, I remember when I had my first beer',
           ]

# ind is a random index into the answers list
ind = random.randrange(len(answers))
print answers[ind]

This is sampling with replacement.  If you want sampling without
replacement, there are other options....

Here is a link to the library documentation for the random module
http://www.python.org/doc/lib/module-random.html


Cheers,
John Hunter


        



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Nov 18 10:22:35 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:22:35 -0600
Subject: popkey() method for dictionaries?
In-Reply-To: <arab9u$ook$1@peabody.colorado.edu> (Fernando
 =?iso-8859-1?q?P=E9rez's?= message of "Mon, 18 Nov 2002 02:18:50 -0700")
References: <ar7i50$3ib$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<f9068f8e.0211170458.541bfeba@posting.google.com>
	<ar8rge$rer$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<mailman.1037569703.8212.python-list@python.org>
	<ar97b6$514$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<g21C9.10147$br6.5755@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>
	<arab9u$ook$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <m2of8m3nt0.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Fernando" == Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:

    Fernando> Sure. First, on principle: the exception option is still
    Fernando> there, if no default is provided. What giving a default
    Fernando> buys you is not having to trap the exception
    Fernando> yourself. If you want a missing key to generate an
    Fernando> exception, simply don't give a default and that's
    Fernando> it. 

But then you break the symmetry with get, which provides None as a
default if no default is provided.  Aren't you now back in danger of
violating the principle of least surprise?

John Hunter




From markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de  Tue Nov 26 11:23:51 2002
From: markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de (Markus von Ehr)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:23:51 +0100
Subject: wxPython Prob
Message-ID: <3DE3A017.AEE4CE2B@ipm.fhg.de>

Hi,

I worte a small sample app using wxToolBar.
There occurs the error that the bitmaps used in:
images.getNewBitmap()
images.getOpenBitmap()
etc. are not found.

(I imported images in the beginning.)

Anyone knows the answer?

Markus


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Mon Nov 18 23:45:07 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:45:07 GMT
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <n3gjtu4dgi8pippei6atsp5s10ieojh0p8@4ax.com>

>I am a python newbie, and I am sure there is an easy answer but, Is there
>any equivalent to C's static variables in Python? If not, how can you have
>variables inside a function, that 'remember' their values between function
>calls?

Usually this is done as a member on the Class and not on in the Instance.
Like this:

>>> class MyClass:
	myStatic=0
	def f(self):
		MyClass.myStatic+=1
		print `MyClass.myStatic`

		
>>> c = MyClass()
>>> c.f()
1
>>> c.f()
2
>>> 


From Padraig at Linux.ie  Tue Nov 26 11:39:34 2002
From: Padraig at Linux.ie (Padraig Brady)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:39:34 GMT
Subject: How to convert ASCII-number => HEX -number => string of numbers
 in HEX ?
References: <3de39ca8$1@news.vip.fi>
Message-ID: <3DE3A33E.3050505@Linux.ie>

Pekka Niiranen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I looked thru modules binascii and struct but not found a way to
> convert hexadecimal value to a string of hex values according to ascii 
> table.
> 
> Example:
> 
> number         =    6673            (max is 0xFFF)
> hex -value     =    '0x1a11'
> string value    =    "\x31\x61\x31\x31"    (31 is one, 61 is 'a')
> 
> or:
> 
> number         =    333            (max is 0xFFF)
> hex -value     =    '0x14d'   string value    =    "\x30\x31\x34\x64"    
> (30 is zero, 31 is one, 34 is four, 64 is "d")
> 
> I have got this far:
> 
> x=""
> a = hex(333)
> for byte in a[2:].zfill(4):        # Number is allways presented with 4 
> hex values (filling missing values with zeros)
>    x = "%s%s" % ( WHAT HERE )
> 
> Anybody, is there a build in function or shortcut  that does this ?

x=''
for byte in string.zfill(hex(6673)[2:],4):
     x=x+ r'\x%02x' % ord(byte)

Hmm ''.zfill() isn't present on python 2.2 at least?
(string.zfill() is?)

P?draig.



From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Mon Nov  4 04:03:05 2002
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:03:05 +0000
Subject: pyqt rules
In-Reply-To: <2Dkx9.42039$Lg2.11444432@news2.news.adelphia.net>
References: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <mailman.1036370164.21605.python-list@python.org> <2Dkx9.42039$Lg2.11444432@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <200211040903.05315.phil@river-bank.demon.co.uk>

On Monday 04 November 2002 2:06 am, Bob X wrote:
> "Phil Thompson" <phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1036370164.21605.python-list at python.org...
> On Sunday 03 November 2002 9:33 pm, Bob X wrote:
> <snip>
>
> >The binary of Qt NC is at
> >http://www.trolltech.com/developer/download/qt-win-noncomm.html
>
> Under the requirement it states that Visual Studio 6 is required. Does that
> mean only for integration into the IDE or does that mean I have to compile
> the download with it? I guess I am just confused about the lingo they are
> using. I have been to that page several times and always thought they meant
> here is the Qt stuff BUT you have to compile it with VC6.

They mean that you need VC6 to write C++ apps with Qt NC.

> >The binary of PyQt for Qt NC is at
> >http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/download.php
>
> So I get the binary (exe's) for both...run 'em and now I can do PyQt?

Correct - so long as you conform to the license conditions.

Phil



From e_viola at libero.it  Thu Nov 21 12:18:31 2002
From: e_viola at libero.it (bart)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:18:31 GMT
Subject: variable scope
Message-ID: <3DDD157D.3090609@libero.it>

Could I modify variable present inside an object's method from external 
module without override method of this class?
Example:

-->Module A

class Person():

     def __init__(self):
        variable=value

-->Module B

Person.__init__.variable=value (it's surely mistake!!!)

Another question is: can I override an object's method locate in modeule 
B from module A when this object is created from another functions 
presents inside module B?

Example:

Module A ---->  Module B ---> function A ---> function B ---> object A

thanks for yours attention...

							- Ennio -



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Nov 27 11:20:13 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:20:13 -0000
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D01200302@intrepid>

> From:	Wojtek Walczak [SMTP:gminick at hacker.pl]
> Dnia Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:53:20 GMT, Robin Munn napisa?(a):
> > You could also do this in one step, like:
> >     gallonsPerTank = int(raw_input("Enter how many gallons..."))
> It of course works, but there's a large amount of situations to think of.
> 
> ---
> import sys
> try:
>    while 1:
>       a = raw_input("Put a digit here: ")
>       if not a.isdigit():
>          a = raw_input("Put a digit here: ")
>       else:
>          a = int(a)
>          break
> except:
>    print sys.exc_info()[1]
>    sys.exit()
> 
> print a
> ---
> 
> Any ideas to make it more reliable ?
 
See <http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue83/evans.html>.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk





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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From irmen at NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Fri Nov  8 21:22:29 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:22:29 +0100
Subject: socket.py and 2.2.1
In-Reply-To: <d08b86a8.0211081508.38c32924@posting.google.com>
References: <d08b86a8.0211081508.38c32924@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3dcc7165$0$46608$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Susan Williams wrote:

> We're finally getting around to upgrading from 1.5.2 to 2.2.1... ;-)


Why not upgrade to 2.2.2? It's been available for several weeks now...

Irmen



From nas at python.ca  Thu Nov 14 16:36:48 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:36:48 -0800
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
In-Reply-To: <just-3E6E36.10585114112002@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.1037219902.17042.python-list@python.org> <just-3E6E36.10585114112002@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20021114213647.GA32110@glacier.arctrix.com>

Just wrote:
> IMO the best idiom for this currently is
> 
>   def foo():
>       while 0:
>           yield "whatever"

This whole discussion is silly, IMHO.  The best idiom is:

    def foo():
        return []

If you really want an interator, then:

    def foo():
        return iter([])

Requiring that the type returned by foo be <type 'generator'> is
un-Pythonic and silly.  If you do want that, the best solution would be
the very clever suggestion of:

    def foo()
        if 0: yield None

  Neil



From costanza at web.de  Mon Nov 11 05:33:43 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:33:43 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <3DCD8571.6CACEA04@alcyone.com> <ud6pe48gl.fsf@online.no> <aqkaeq$7de$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3DCF2127.8080602@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <3DCF8787.9000607@web.de>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> Pascal Costanza wrote:
> 
>> In Common Lisp, you can have:
>>
>> (paint circle :on canvas :at point)
>>
>> Given that you have defined paint as follows:
>>
>> (defun paint (&key on at)
>>    ...)
> 
> Python still goes one better, because (for user-defined
> methods at least) you can supply arguments by keyword even
> if they *haven't* been declared that way!

No problem.

(defun paint (&key on at &allow-other-keys)
    ...)

;-)

Lisp's argument options are rather complete. Here's another nice example.

(defun test (&key (arg nil arg-supplied))
    (if arg-supplied
       (format t "The argument was ~A.~%" arg)
       (format t "No argument was supplied.")))

 > (test :arg 5)
The argument was 5.

 > (test :arg nil)
The argument was nil.

 > (test)
No argument was supplied.


Pascal

-- 
Pascal Costanza               University of Bonn
mailto:costanza at web.de        Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de  R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)



From dgemic at nospam.net  Fri Nov 15 18:22:57 2002
From: dgemic at nospam.net (Drazen Gemic)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:22:57 +0100
Subject: Serial Port
References: <mailman.1037306122.3207.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD581D1.1080303@nospam.net>

Luca Bruderer wrote:
> Hello
>  
> How can I read and send information through a serial port for a custom 
> keyboard I would like to build.
>  
>

Under UNIX-like OS's it is posible to start an aplication with serial 
line as standard input & output. Serial port can be configured with stty
command. Aplication can read and write standard input and output without
knowing anything about serial port.

                                 DG




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 26 12:28:50 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 17:28:50 GMT
Subject: Coaxing DWORD values out of a Binary file...
References: <aFcE9.8069$It3.814405@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <0pGE9.6590$1r1.259632@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <as0b0i$glv$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:37:16 GMT, "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

>adeptus wrote:
>
>> I've tried unpacking them via the struct module, (by passing them in as 4
>> byte strings) but the numbers I get don't seem to make any sense for the
>> file format...
>>
>> Am I making a naive assumption about how VC++ would write a DWORD to a
>> binary file???
>>
>> I'm also assuming that:
>>     (i386 centric)
>>     8-Bits = 1 Char = 1 Byte
>>     1 Word = 2 Bytes
>>     1 DWORD = 4 Bytes
>>
>> What I'm asking is, what is proper officially pythonic way of accessing
>> DWORD values stored in a binary file by a VC++ program???
>
>for some reason, there seem to be a new trend on this newsgroup
>where people post lame replies without even attempting to answer
>the original question.  sorry for that.  here's the correct answer:
In this case "people" was me, I think. I could have made the same guess you did,
but I chose not to.

>
>    struct.unpack("<I", data)
>
>From what the OP says, he already tried some version of this, perhaps exactly this.
We don't know.
>(little-endian, four-byte unsigned integer)
>
>to avoid problems on non-Unix platforms, also make sure you open
>the file in binary mode:
>
>    f = open(filename, "rb")
>    data = f.read(4)
Presumably the OP tried some code close to this also. I guessed that the OP had
read the struct module docs, and not opening in binary was the most likely problem,
which I mentioned, albeit in the context of a complaint.
>
>to debug, use "print repr(data)" or "print data.encode('hex')" and
>make sure the data is what you expect it to be.
>
This is good specific advice, which I also suggested in a general way.

I am a bit chastened, and will try to improve my tone, but I think I will
continue to noodge people about posting snippets of actual interactive experiments
demonstrating their problems instead of creating unnecessary ("lame" ;-) guesswork.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 21 15:38:06 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 20:38:06 GMT
Subject: Gnuplot on Windows
References: <mailman.1037891609.5202.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arjg7e$9iv$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:11:32 +0000, "Paul Simmonds" <psimmo60 at hotmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>import Gnuplot
>>>>a=Gnuplot.Gnuplot()
>>>>a.plot('1.dta') # A simple data file
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  File "F:\SIMMONDS\python22\Lib\site-packages\Gnuplot\_Gnuplot.py", line 
>281, in plot
>    self.refresh()
>  File "F:\SIMMONDS\python22\Lib\site-packages\Gnuplot\_Gnuplot.py", line 
>222, in refresh
>    self(self.plotcmd + ' ' + string.join(plotcmds, ', '))
>  File "F:\SIMMONDS\python22\Lib\site-packages\Gnuplot\_Gnuplot.py", line 
>206, in __call__
>    self.gnuplot(s)
>  File "F:\SIMMONDS\python22\Lib\site-packages\Gnuplot\gp_win32.py", line 
>122, in __call__
>    self.write(s + '\n')
>IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument
>>>># Working through the hierarchy gives me
>>>>a.gnuplot.gnuplot
><open file 'f:\simmonds\gnuplot\pgnuplot.exe', mode 'w' at 0x00792CE8>
                                          ^^^        ^^^
Why would a .exe file be opened with mode 'w'?? Or at all?

Creating or modifying exe's on the fly could be not so nice for your system ;-/

I would want to check that out carefully.
 
>>>>a.gnuplot.gnuplot.write("hello")
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument
>
>I had a check through the Gnuplot-py project page, and there was another 
>support request describing the same thing, but no answer was given.
>
>I'd be grateful for any comments.

No experience with Gnuplot, sorry. But that open file caught my eye.
Hope it's a useful clue.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tim at frontier.net  Fri Nov  8 01:11:42 2002
From: tim at frontier.net (Tim H)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 22:11:42 -0800
Subject: PySol Windows binaries, anyone?
References: <mailman.1036695670.29735.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5453f6e4.0211072211.2480c257@posting.google.com>

Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036695670.29735.python-list at python.org>...
> Dear Python Community,
> 
> my wife is unhappy. She used to play PySol for years.
> Recently, I tried to install the latest version,
> but didn't get it to work. Unfortunately, I wiped
> the old installation before. :-(
> 
> It is known that Markus lost his Windows stuff, there is
> no more an installer (no problem), and a couple of
> Windows specific functions are missing. That's the problem.
> 
> Does somebody have a working PySol for me?
> Or maybe one of the last working installers is still
> around? I'd also put this on my website for people
> to download. Markus seems to be no longer reachable
> by email.
> 
> As the last resort, I also could write the missing C functions,
> but I really hope somebody has them still around. I'm also
> not sure what else is missing.
> 
> many thanks in advance - chris


Hey Christian,

The latest pysol Windows installer I have found is 4.60, if you google for
pysol460.exe you will find a couple places to get it.  As a last resort,
reply to me and I will send it.

Good luck,

Tim H


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Mon Nov 18 16:57:36 2002
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:57:36 +1000 (est)
Subject: python-dev Summary, 2002-11-01 through 2002-11-15
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1037626867.20842.clpa-moderators@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0211190752000.9760-100000@tenring.andymac.org>

On 17 Nov 2002, Brett C. wrote:

> The majority of the thread was spent trying to get FreeBSD 4.4 to
> compile Python and trying to work out a possible bug in pymalloc.

Sorry I didn't pick this up before, but that FreeBSD thread was about
FreeBSD-CURRENT (what will shortly become FreeBSD 5.0), and not FreeBSD
4.4.  The -CURRENT issue has to do with the FreeBSD developers taking a
more stringent view of the interpretation of certain standards related
symbols, which affects what libc symbols are visible in the standard C
headers.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 27 23:57:48 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:57:48 +1300
Subject: floating point division -- question
References: <as2u3l$ncf6d$5@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de> <slrnau9uvh.1k0.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <as31ig$n7lq2$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de> <%jaF9.16948$yk6.10839@fe03>
Message-ID: <3DE5A24C.8060606@something.invalid>

Steve Holden wrote:

> But there's simply no way you could do that. If you'd used "/" for integer
> division then programs that used it with float operands would have broken.
> Either way it's a change in semantics, and that's why Guido has decreed the
> change will take so long.


The only way to avoid breakage altogether would have
been to introduce *two* new operators, one for
integer-only division and one for float-only,
and leave / alone completely.

Then we would have had a situation where the
most obvious symbol for division was the one
least recommended for use. That would have been
very ugly.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From idoerg at burnham.org  Fri Nov  8 22:52:39 2002
From: idoerg at burnham.org (Iddo)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 19:52:39 -0800
Subject: Using bsddb with Berkeley DB 3.3
Message-ID: <5361ecc1.0211081952.6158b00c@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am using the Python2.2 bsddb interface with a BerkeleyDB 3.3.11, on
Linux RH7.3
As I was unaware that there are more updated packages not in the
standard python distribution (just found out), I have written quite a
bit of code using bsddb.I am pretty much the newbie to this aspect of
Python (basically, I needed some good serialization, I do not know
much about the Berkeley DB).

1) Is this really bad? If so, is there an easy way to "upgrade".

2) My databases seem to be terribly large. For example, I converted a
2.6GB hashdb (created with Python too) to BTree, and it blew up to
~10GB. Is it the old interface? Something else? Where to I start
checking?

Thanks, any additional info given would be appreciated.

Iddo


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 21 12:40:56 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:40:56 -0500
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org> <3DDB3373.2578CEC0@alcyone.com> <BaGcnQynO5m2VEagXTWc3Q@comcast.com> <3DDC1874.F72E2B35@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <xQWdnY8p3JLag0CgXTWcog@comcast.com>

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3DDC1874.F72E2B35 at alcyone.com...
> Terry Reedy wrote:
>
> > If I understand this, you are proposing that if a default is
> > 'mutable', then extra magic be added to re-initialized (somehow)
on
> > every call.
>
> I am doing no such thing.

Ok, you are 'proposing' that extra magic is *possible*, that it
*could* be added,  or rather, have been added from the beginning.

> I am simply stating that there is no a priori
> reason why it _couldn't_ have been done that way.

Given that we all know that anything programmable could be done, the
above does not say anything.  I thought you were saying something more
(ie, that there is a plausibly good and not just possible
alternative).

>  It wasn't done that way, and I am not suggesting it be changed,

OK, actual change of the language is a non-issue.

> just justifying my position that the way it's done right now is an
arbitrary choice

I presume you mean 'was', referring to the original choice rather than
'is', referring to the continual choice not to change, which we agree
on as rational (and to me, therefore, non-arbitrary).

To make a concrete choice, there must be a concrete alternative.  As I
explained in my previous post, your other 'way' that defaults could
have been handled covers many possibilities.  I interprete you as
saying that at least one of the underspecified alternatives would have
been just as rational a choice, had GvR but thought of it and
considered it.

'Arbitrary' has a range of meanings and connotations from
discretionary, according to preference, through whimsical, capricious,
or random, to despotic or dictatorial.  I'll let you clarify which you
mean, if you wish, before arguing this point much further.

> (simply because it is the easiest to implement).

If arbitrary means random (not based on rational consideration, could
just as well have been decided by a coin flip), then this is a denial
of arbitrariness 8-)

> Whether the way it's currently done is a good idea is another
question;

'Good' on some absolute scale, or as compared to your underspecified
alternative?

> it seems from the constant confusion that this issue causes, it
doesn't
> seem so to me:  It causes confusion for newbies,

We agree that confusion is not good.  Whether any particular
(hypothetical) alternative would be (would have been) better or worse
in this respect is a different question.  I see three possible
responses to the current situation:

1. Let the confusion continue, with or without occasional bitching.

(2. Change the language, but this is off the table.)

3. Improve the presentation of what is so it is somehow less
confusing.

Here is why I am bothering to discuss and dispute your claim.
Presenting something as capricious or despotic is unlikely to disperse
confusion.  Explaining why is it as it is and some of the problems of
doing it differently might.

Terry J. Reedy




From thanks200 at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 21 18:47:22 2002
From: thanks200 at hotmail.com (Tom Hanks)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 15:47:22 -0800
Subject: [Boost.Python] Printed documentation available?
Message-ID: <6152d0a0.0211211547.2afdb8df@posting.google.com>

I hope the subject says it all. 

I'd like a printout of the Boost.Python documentation (found
at http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html) for my 
daily train trips.

Unfortunately for me the available documentation is not 
printer-friendly. Instead it is browser-friendly, organised 
into an html tree 3-4 pages deep. 

I've googled for a couple of hours but can't find a more suitably 
formatted document.

Can someone recommend a way to get a printable version?

Thankyou for your help in reading this far,

Tom Hanks.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 13 14:31:40 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 20:31:40 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <aqu6vg$bvr$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <m3k7jhs1ur.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Good luck. Writing such a tex<->xml converter is an insanely
> non-trivial task, and I know a few bright people who have tackled
> it.

Python does have one.

> If you do succeed, _please_ let the Lyx team know about it.

I don't think that the Lyx team would like to use it, though, since it
is specific to the Python documentation.

> Latex is very hard to parse correctly, from what I've seen.

In the general case, yes. Not when it is Python documentation.

> Considering it's basically a full-blown programming language, 
> short of rewriting TeX itself, this won't be a simple task...

If you can enforce constraints on the constructs used, parsing it is a
manageable task.

Regards,
Martin


From imbosol at vt.edu  Tue Nov 26 05:45:16 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 05:45:16 -0500
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no> <arsqsd$3j5$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <aruf6o$bd7$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <Xns92D2652D276CAduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>
Message-ID: <arvjdu$4nk$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote in news:aruf6o$bd7$3 at solaris.cc.vt.edu:
> 
>>> Now it's gonna be interesting to see if I ever run into a situation
>>> where I'd feel most comfortable doing an if <assignment>:, knowing
>>> that there are usually better ways of solving the problem. 
>> 
>> Testing a bunch of regular expressions on some input and taking action
>> on the first match seems to do it for a lot of people.> 
> 
> If you have more than one or two patterns, then you should really be
> thinking about a loop rather than a long list of if statements: 
> 
> PATTERNS = [
>  (regex1, action1),
>  (regex2, action2),
>  # ...
> ]
> 
> for regex, action in PATTERNS:
>    match = regex.match(string)
>    if match:
>        action(match)
>        break
> 
> I don't see any need for assignment in an 'if' here.

Other people often clamor for assignment if here, because the way you
did is an unnatural and circumlocative way to do something most
people, myself included, want to do as a sequential piece of code.

I don't want an assignment if because I have a great distaste for it,
so I usually use other workarounds whenever I want to do something
like this.  But I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to break up
their code the way you did, making it less straightforward in the
process.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From bogusdrop at myself.com  Sat Nov  2 03:28:32 2002
From: bogusdrop at myself.com (TuxTrax)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 00:28:32 -0800
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg> <slrnas4p25.e4j.TuxTrax@fortress.tuxnet> <aptuq0$uec$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <30770aa4.0211020028.1434bd34@posting.google.com>

"David Brown" <david at no.westcontrol.spam.com> wrote in message news:<aptuq0$uec$1 at news.netpower.no>...
> "TuxTrax" <TuxTrax at fortress.tuxnet.net> wrote in message
> 
> >
> > Your comments reveal a thoughtful and curious approach that is quite
>  healthy.
> > It also reveals a world view that has in large part been shaped by the
> > philosophies of proprietary software companies.
> >
> > Is a python compiler available for linux? I don't know. I do know that no
> > Linux users I know would even consider using one. It would never cross our
> > minds to make our source closed to others. This is where the whole open
>  source
> > software movement takes a completely different world view. In open source
> > software, you retain the right to make a profit from your work, while
>  still
> > granting others the right to copy, distribute, modify and view the source
> > code. Just a year ago, this whole concept was horrifying to me. I could
> > not concieve of allowing others to have free access to my source code. As
> > a Long time windows user, I had some un-learning to do. But unlearn I did.
> > I started thinking in terms of the advantages of open source. First, it
>  keeps
> > you honest; you write your best code because you know that your peers are
> > going to be seeing it all over the world. Second, with open source, once
> > you release it, other programmers may modify it helping it to become more
> > than you ever could have made it on your own (unless you choose to forbid
> > the modification of your code, but that's another subject). Third, the
> > distribution of your product using the open source community, has no
>  equal,
> > and will cost you nothing. You can provide support to your users via
> > that same community at little or no cost to you, and support is the number
> > one ongoing cost that software developers get saddled with. You can use
> > the resources of such organizations as the free software foundation to
> > defend your copyright (don't let the "free" in FSF throw you; you can
>  still
> > market your product using the GPL licence).
> >
> > And finally, you get to give something back. This is a philosophical point
> > for me, but giving something back to the community that you benefit from,
> > whether it be your local community, or the computer community, is very
> > important for us as people. It is a common and refreshing view that you
> > will find in the open source world, and one reason that I left the
> > windows world for good. But thats a soapbox for another time. <grin>
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Mathew
> >
> 
> I think you are making the mistake many "born again" open-source advocates
> make, and one that many anti-open-source people also make.  There is plenty
> of place in the world for both open and closed source software. 

Indeed this is true. Did I leave you with the impression that I was
saying
anything against closed source? The fact is I happen to agree with
you, but
shamelessly took an oppotunity to pitch the case for open source since
the OP seemed not to have considered it.

> In some situations, one is far better than the other

OK.

> in some cases either will do
> the job.  Saying that everything should be open source is as bad as saying
> everything should be closed source.  It's a common misunderstanding about
> Linux ("Software companies should not write for Linux because then they
> would have to give away all their source code...").

And it is a common misconception (perpetuated by some proprietary
software houses) that open_source == zero_profit. The fact is, open
sourcing the program will not negatively impact the profitablility of
the product. This flies in the face of conventional wisdom, but such
companies as red hat have proven the business model.

At any rate, I don't believe I said everything should be open source.
I did not intend to imply it.

> Consider, for example, the program I am writing at the moment.  It is in
> Python - a language whose licence is very clear in stating that all
> Python-licenced code can be used in open and closed source software (keeping
> copyright messages intact).  The program provides a gui for an embedded
> motor controller card, and our customer is paying good money for me to write
> the program.  He intends to sell the cards on to his customers, with this
> controller program to go with it.  In the future, he will want a bigger
> version of the program (supporting several cards simultaneously).  He may
> well want to charge his customers for that software upgrade.  He certainly
> won't want his customers to have full access to the code - they may modify
> it for use with other supplier's motor cards. 

fine. Then make a license agreement that forbids the modification of
the code for use with other brands of motor control equipment. That
has nothing to do with open sourcing it. When you open source your
code, you provide greater value to your customers, because you give
them the power to meet future needs as they expand, by applying the
same codebase to new hardware/software platforms. They can also see
and verify that the code is not filled with bugs/backdoors.

> This is not a program for
> which either myself or my customer will gain any benifits from releasing it
> as open source - no one is going to be making improvements to it that will
> benifit us. 

see above

> However, there are certainly *parts* of the program that could
> be released seperately.  For example, I may seperate out the graphing parts
> of the gui into a nice, modular graph widget.  That could easily be released
> as open source (Python licence), for the benifit of others and for our own
> benifit - if people like it, they will contribute improvements which I can
> then use.  If I make any changes or improvements to the pyserial module that
> I am using, then I certainly will pass those changes back to the community.
> But by the time I get as far as making distribution copies of the program,
> I'll be making two sorts of packages - py2exe packages for easy installation
> on Windows machines, and .pyc byte-code files for use on Linux (and for
> Windows users who already have Python).
> 
> I fully agree that there are often direct benifits from making your own
> software open source.  There is also the personal satisfaction factor - I
> have not written much that could be of direct benifit to others (my job is
> embedded systems development - you need our company's hardware to run our
> software), but I have enjoyed the feeling I get from the few direct
> contributions I have made.  But there are many reasons to write closed
> source code as well.  You do not speak for the Linux-using community when
> you say that writing closed source is against your principles.  From a
> user's viewpoint, open source is definitely an advantage - just like lower
> cost, better documentation or more functionality is an advantage.  But from
> the writer or sellers viewpoint, it is a mixed blessing which must be
> considered sensibly - just like the selling price, the level of
> documentation and the functionality of the software.  The aim of all
> businesses is to make money - preferably by providing good products and
> services to their customers.  If that end can be best achieved by openning
> their software, great.  If it is best achieved by closing their software,
> then that's the way it is.

Thank you for your thoughts. The OP was asking about securing code and
I wanted to impress two things:

1) you can't secure your code

2) open source is not a bad thing, it is, in fact, a very good option.

cheers,

Mathew


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 20 16:51:36 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:51:36 -0500
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org> <3DDB3373.2578CEC0@alcyone.com> <8ef9bea6.0211201119.2f846d0c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <JxqdnQqI-cZFnEGgXTWcqA@comcast.com>

"Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8ef9bea6.0211201119.2f846d0c at posting.google.com...

>Sorry for digressing, but this reminds me of an old debate on whether
>Python is suitable as the first language to teach.

> Well, the thing is that Python works with "name binding". And the
> concepts of name spaces, name binding, objects, mutability, etc. are
> just a bit non-obvious.

I somewhat disagree.  An object is something with identify, generic
type, and specific value.  Binding names to objects is common in
everyday life.  We also name slots and refer to objects by the name of
the slot where currently located, but this is probably less common and
less obvious.  For instance, your parents (I presume) bound the name
Hung Jung to you shortly after birth.  On the other hand, if you stay
in a hotel, you might be 'the person in Room 223'.  If you moved up
several floors, you could be 'the person in Room 1287'.  In school,
you might have been either 'Hung Jung' or 'the child in row 4 seat 3',
but I suspect you would have been more comfortable with the former.

Namespace is just a fancy (but specific) word for context.  A
particular name may be bound to different objects in different
contexts.  For instance, 'John' may be bound to one child in one
classroom and another child in another.  So namespaces are a way to
reuse names within an information processing language.

How is mutability non-obvious?  You change location.  You get sick and
then healthy (I hope).  You learn.  We put things into containers and
take them out.  On the other hand, words are fixed sequences of
letters.  But sealed containers may be less obvious.

> Once a person understands these things, or if
> a person knows about pointers, hashmaps and memory structure,
> everything becomes clear.

One of the things I like about Python as an *information* processing
language is that it is *not* defined in terms of computer hardware.
This means that humans can interprete Python code *without* mentally
simulating a computer.  This should mean that people should be able to
learn Python without learning a machine model.  I would think that
this should make Python easier to learn than languages which are
defined in terms of a machine.

> After many years in the Python world and having seen so many
debates,
> I still have to say that Python is not good as the first programming
> language to teach.

Not as good as what?  Assembler?  Basic?  Fortran? C?, C++?,
CommonLisp? ... Whether or not Python is suitable as a first language
(your original question), which I would expect it to be by some
criterion until evidence showed otherwise, is quite different from 'is
it as good (or even the best)?', which would be much toughter to show.

Rather than debate, I would like see evidence.  A real trial would pit
Python against one or more specific other languages.  There would need
to be a language-neutral test.  Students should be randomly assigned
to classes after being disabused of preconceptions and prejudices.
There would need to be multiple teachers so the trial was not just a
trial of teaching ability.  Such trials are now routine in medicine
but not yet in pedegogy.

>Maybe it's just
> me, but I have been horrified by programmers writing a few lines of
> code, without realizing their few lines of code can actually have
> severe impact on the RAM or the harddrive.

Impact on the RAM?  Are you talking about merely filling things up
with data (easily reversible) or something possibly more damaging,
like thrashing a drive for hours on end?  Or erasing unbacked data?
Certainly, people should not learn to open a file (open() or file())
or access the os (os.system()) without also being taught the possible
dangers.  But this is true for any language and nothing, that I can
see, to do with Python as a first language.  In any case, one of the
nice things about learning to program is that sandbox programs
restricted to keyboard input, RAM memory, and screen output really
cannot really hurt anything (on a single user system).  Quite
different from, for instance, learning to drive.


> I still feel more
> comfortable if the new generation of programmers starts with a
> language closer to the machine level, where one can kind of "feel"
the
> bits and bytes. Just my 2 cents. :)

Having starting with 1620 assembler (and paper tape input) and later
'graduated' to Fortran and punched cards, I think people might better
start by learning about functions and algorithms with an modern
interactive language like Python.

> Hung Jung

Terry J. Reedy




From sanjay2kind at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 10:54:15 2002
From: sanjay2kind at yahoo.com (sanjay)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 07:54:15 -0800
Subject: SGMLParser problem
Message-ID: <63170f57.0211080754.4d398296@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Any one has suggestion for following problem. Some word documents
have been converted to HTML page in Ms-Word. Want to filter html tags
like..
<o:p></o:p>,
<![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]>, etc. I couldn't solve
using SGMLParser. Shows error like..

raceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\Python21\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py", line
301, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "C:\Program Files\test\msword_html_parser_1.py", line 166, in ?
    s =  get_parsed_content1()
  File "C:\Program Files\test\msword_html_parser_1.py", line 71, in
get_parsed_content1
    mk.feed(obj.read())
  File "D:\Python21\lib\sgmllib.py", line 91, in feed
    self.goahead(0)
  File "D:\Python21\lib\sgmllib.py", line 158, in goahead
    k = self.parse_declaration(i)
  File "D:\Python21\lib\sgmllib.py", line 238, in parse_declaration
    raise SGMLParseError(
SGMLParseError: unexpected char in declaration: '<'


Thanks,
Sanjay


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Nov  4 07:47:24 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 13:47:24 +0100
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
References: <cB12HJAlOlx9EwWy@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <j4heex4i3n.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> Under 2.2 it seems that SimpleXMLRPCServer has gone into the library,
> but the CGI support classes are gone. Anyone know of a replacement? This
> feature was really useful.

See python.org/sf/473586.

Comments are appreciated (in this patch submission).

Regards,
Martin


From jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com  Wed Nov  6 19:19:50 2002
From: jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com (Jim)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 00:19:50 GMT
Subject: pyqt threading problems unstable
References: <3dc95b0b$0$12984@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <3DC9B188.6010101@SPAMnwinternet.com>

Rob Hall wrote:

> Is this a flakey way of going about things? as I am getting pretty
> frustrated.  Or is the pyqt threading flakey?

You might want to repost your question to the PyKDE
mailing list, which also covers PyQt and sip. You can
sign up at:

http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde

Jim





From camhorn at mac.com  Wed Nov 13 17:38:25 2002
From: camhorn at mac.com (Cameron Horn)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:38:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
Message-ID: <6435449.1037227105210.JavaMail.camhorn@mac.com>

 
On Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002, at 02:26PM, <sismex01 at hebmex.com> wrote:

>> From: Cameron Horn [mailto:camhorn at mac.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:26 PM
>>  
>> On Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002, at 02:19PM, <sismex01 at hebmex.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >> From: Cameron Horn [mailto:camhorn at mac.com]
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:20 PM
>> >>  
>> >> On Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002, at 02:16PM, David Eppstein 
>> >> <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> >On 11/13/02 2:11 PM -0800 Cameron Horn <camhorn at mac.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> What I wonder is, why does it need to be a generator?  
>> >> What's wrong with
>> >> >>> def foo(): return ( )
>> >> >>> ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You're right if it's a one-time thing.  However, if I've got a
>> >> >> scaffolding like this, then it matters.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> def process_generator(function):
>> >> >>    for x in function():
>> >> >>       print x
>> >> >
>> >> >How does the function foo() I defined above fail to work in this 
>> >> >scaffolding?
>> >> 
>> >> In the "TypeError: iteration over non-sequence" sort of way.
>> >>
>> >
>> >An empty tuple is a sequence also;
>> >
>> >the "return ( )" thing is returning an empty tuple,
>> >not "None".  You can make it clearer by using
>> >"return tuple()" rather than "return ()".
>> 
>> Oops.  Missed those parentheses.  Then it is completely 
>> useful, unless you end up using the "next" method.
>>
>
>In that case, if you reckon you're going to use .next()
>directly, then you should change 'foo' to something like
>the following:
>
>def foo(): return iter(tuple())
>
>It's going to return a valid iterator which is going to
>try to iterate through an empty tuple, so it's going
>to raise StopIteration the first time you call .next().
>
>

Which is the obvious, clear and consistent way to create a generator that doesn't do anything.  Unless you're checking types or doing any other low-level things that you probably oughtn't.  I return to my original point.  And then, since everything works and I'm just complaining about a tiny bit of syntax, I shut up.



From ronecker at noos.fr  Sun Nov 24 15:59:22 2002
From: ronecker at noos.fr (Lenny)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:59:22 +0100
Subject: cannot import gtk
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.24.20.59.20.170846@noos.fr>

Hi,

I've just installed a RH 8.0, and while trying to use python programs from
my previous linuxbox, i encounter the following problems with python :

>    from gtk import GtkVBox
>ImportError: cannot import name GtkVBox

this is just an example. I have the same errors with many widgets, but
also, with GDK, etc.etc...

I tried with python (that is python1.5), python2 and python2.2

I really have gtk+- installed (/usr/include/gtk-1.2 AND gtk-2.0)
with (for the example above) a nice gtkvbox.h

I think python does not know where to look for modules or something like
that, but I'm new to this, and do not know what to do.

Thanx a lot for your help,



From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Thu Nov 28 18:06:00 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 23:06:00 GMT
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D01200302@intrepid> <mailman.1038432341.11901.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as67go$gtm$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 03:20, Simon Brunning wrote:
>> > Any ideas to make it more reliable ?
>>
>> See <http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue83/evans.html>.
> Reading this pointed out the value of a validator. If you want input in a 
> particular form, it is probably better to not let the user do anything else, 
> rather than let them do an entry, then explain what they did wrong, then let 
> them try again.
> 
> Anyone got a class that can do generic validation, without using one of the 
> GUIs?
[going more offtopic]

Zope 3 has something in the works called 'Schema'. It's probably more
than you're asking for as it is a special kind of interface, but it
can do generic validation.

Conversion of user input is however left to the 'Forms' package as different
UI systems (web, various GUIs, text) have different widgets that deliver
results of a different type (web form input is typically string data,
while a GUI toolkit may have special widgets for inputting integers or
dates). Schema only do validation.

Anyway, while there's code this is hard to use in isolation right now
and mostly vaporware. But I just felt like rambling. :)

http://cvs.zope.org/Zope3/lib/python/Zope/Schema/

http://cvs.zope.org/Zope3/lib/python/Zope/App/Forms/

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Nov 20 14:13:53 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:13:53 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <00ae01c290c8$f7803a30$21795418@dell1700>

Kenny Tilton wrote:
> documentation available at a keystroke, and apropos to search for
> stuff you suspect is in the language

Python has several nice help tools. Try typing "help()" at an
interactive shell. 

>    true garbage collection (I am /not/ looking forward to reference
> counting or the hoops one has to jump thru to handle cyclic refs)

Python does not require any such hoops. Python uses a generational
garbage collector to deal with circular references.

Cheers,
Brian




From slaven.rezic at berlin.de  Fri Nov  8 04:53:14 2002
From: slaven.rezic at berlin.de (Slaven Rezic)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 10:53:14 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <aqbe90$85d$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <aqbimo$a36$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <aqfor2$cv5$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <3DCB7D3D.B2EAAB0F@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <878z04mlpx.fsf@vran.herceg.de>

Benjamin Goldberg <goldbb2 at earthlink.net> writes:

> Walter Roberson wrote:
> > 
[...] 
> > Speaking of layers: I take it that some thought has been put into
> > how to do operating-system escapes? So that one can (for example)
> > handle graphics? Or even just sockets? Seeing as some of the most
> > popular interpreted languages are by no means restricted to text-only
> > and have networking capabilities?
> 
> Remember, the parrot interpreter is written in C... it has to be. 
> Obviously, one would have parrot opcodes which result in calls to C
> functions, which perform socket operations or graphics or whatever.
> 

I dont't think it will be opcodes, but rather a combination of loadlib
(load a DLL) and dlfunc (create a parrot-callable subroutine from a
DLL function). See core.ops.

Regards,
	Slaven

-- 
Slaven Rezic - slaven.rezic at berlin.de

Visualize Makefiles with GraphViz:
	http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~eserte/src/perl/GraphViz-Makefile/


From Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM  Tue Nov 12 08:31:04 2002
From: Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM (Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 05:31:04 -0800
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> </f9z9ks/KbEa089yn@the-wire.com> <hRA09ks/K3oP089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <44ee1dc2.0211120531.10574867@posting.google.com>

If You change :
print reduce (lambda x,y: (x[1],x[0]+x[1], x[2]+[x[1]]), xrange(10), (0,1,[]))[2]
into :
print reduce (lambda x,y: (x[1],x[0]+x[1], x[2]+[x[1]]), xrange(99), (0,1L,[]))[2]
it should remain working without overflow...


From shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 19:09:02 2002
From: shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com (Richard Dillingham)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:09:02 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net> <mailman.1037662109.12626.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yifC9.17375$0U1.1739527@news2.east.cox.net>

What's top-posting?

Also, I knew that a,b normally evaluates to a tuple, but it already doesn't
in an if-statement. I get a syntax error instead.




From charles at pentek.com  Thu Nov  7 14:01:39 2002
From: charles at pentek.com (Charles Krug)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:01:39 GMT
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <m27kfsm2x8.fsf@python.net> <aq8qbh$ik0$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1036539728.6381.python-list@python.org> <ZI6y9.77441$aL4.2400685@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036590550.21817.python-list@python.org> <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f@posting.google.com> <815e8a38.0211071038.208c7577@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasle4n.7kt.charles@homer.pentek.org>

On 7 Nov 2002 10:38:44 -0800, CShannon <shannon at centre.edu> wrote:
> I am a college professor and use Python as the language in our first
> course -- designed for both majors and non-majors alike.  There are a
> number of good python reference books around.  Most of them are not
> appropriate as text books however because they have few examples and
> often no exercises.  I like a book that is moderate in size.  Books
> often have more material than can be covered in a single semester but
> it shouldn't be so large (or expensive) as to intimidate all but the
> bravest of souls.  In my course, students are also expected to buy a
> text dealing with social/ethical issues.
> 

Interesting.  I doubled in both Math and CS.  Half of the CS courses had
an ethics component, while none of the maths did.

<irony>
Which only makes sense.  I've never heard of a fudged mathmatical model
used to support the desired conclusion of a sponsor with deep pockets.

Have you?
</irony>



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sat Nov 23 19:36:38 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:36:38 +1100
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A778@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

He's back! He's back!

[rest of thread deleted manually]

Damn - guess my filters are playing up :(

Tim Delaney



From answer at tnoo.net  Mon Nov 11 12:16:52 2002
From: answer at tnoo.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Martin_L=FCthi?=)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 18:16:52 +0100
Subject: How to create and interactive, distributable program?
References: <3dcfa0e3.921157@news.jaring.my>
Message-ID: <m3lm40rpq3.fsf@yak.ethz.ch>

Great task.... I am not shure about creating a FE package from scratch in
three months. There is plenty of very good, fast and tested code around to
build upon: Check for example 

http://sal.kachinatech.com/B/2
http://www.engr.usask.ca/~macphed/finite/fe_resources/fe_resources.html

Two free codes that I can recommend (but there are many, many others):

Tochnog (http://tochnog.sourceforge.net): Does about everything, 2D, 3D,
        remeshing, coupled analysis, easy to use (no graphical frontend)
        GPL

Deal.II (http://www.dealii.org/): Very fast C++ library, but you have to 
        code the equations yourself in C++
        QT-style license

With such a bullet-proof backing you only have to write the frontend that
generates inputfiles and reads outputfiles. I wrote a small GPL'd library in
Python for the task of FE-file conversion that could be useful
(http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/feval, no project page yet).

Hope this of help for you

Martin


-- 
Martin L?thi                 answer at tnoo.net



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Nov 22 11:41:33 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:41:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
In-Reply-To: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211220836150.23526-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Eric Brunel wrote:

> So I told myself: wouldn't it be great if max(None, x) or min(None, x) 
> always simply returned x? So I could just write:
> 
> xMax = None
> for -whatever-:
>   -big calculation leading to a value of x-
>   xMax = max(x, xMax)
> 
> Okay, it only saves 3 lines, but I personally find it quite natural... In 
> addition, today, min(None, x) and max(None, x) work, but have strange 
> results: as far as I can see, min(None, x) is always None and max(None, x) 
> is always x, but this behaviour isn't documented.
> 
> Opinions anyone?

Sure! Write two functions, and put them in your sitecustomize.py file. No 
PEPs to write, no patches to submit, no battles to win, and you get all 
the functionality you want _today_.

-Dave




From goldbb2 at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  8 05:26:54 2002
From: goldbb2 at earthlink.net (Benjamin Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 05:26:54 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <aqbe90$85d$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <aqbimo$a36$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <aqfor2$cv5$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <3DCB7D3D.B2EAAB0F@earthlink.net> <878z04mlpx.fsf@vran.herceg.de>
Message-ID: <3DCB916E.76E55334@earthlink.net>

Slaven Rezic wrote:
> 
> Benjamin Goldberg <goldbb2 at earthlink.net> writes:
> 
> > Walter Roberson wrote:
> > >
> [...]
> > > Speaking of layers: I take it that some thought has been put into
> > > how to do operating-system escapes? So that one can (for example)
> > > handle graphics? Or even just sockets? Seeing as some of the most
> > > popular interpreted languages are by no means restricted to
> > > text-only and have networking capabilities?
> >
> > Remember, the parrot interpreter is written in C... it has to be.
> > Obviously, one would have parrot opcodes which result in calls to C
> > functions, which perform socket operations or graphics or whatever.
> 
> I dont't think it will be opcodes, but rather a combination of loadlib
> (load a DLL) and dlfunc (create a parrot-callable subroutine from a
> DLL function). See core.ops.

Ok, so loadlib is one op, and dlfunc is another op :)

-- 
my $n = 2; print +(split //, 'e,4c3H r ktulrnsJ2tPaeh'
."\n1oa! er")[map $n = ($n * 24 + 30) % 31, (42) x 26]


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Nov 10 05:36:11 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:36:11 +0100
Subject: Tkinter listbox selection handling
References: <co6kqa.tqk2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <aqlcss$9hd$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 09 Nov 2002 23:48:05 GMT, Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
wrote:

>class myUI:
>
>     def __init__(self, root):
>
>         # Setup the visual elements
>         self.hSB = Scrollbar(root, orient=HORIZONTAL)
>         self.vSB = Scrollbar(root, orient=VERTICAL)
>         self.listbox = Listbox(root,
>                                foreground = FCOLOR,
>                                background  = BCOLOR,
>                                font = (FNAME, FSZ, FWT),
>                                selectmode=SINGLE,
>                                exportselection=0,
>                                xscrollcommand=self.hSB.set,
>                                yscrollcommand=self.vSB.set,
>                                height = HEIGHT,
>                                width = WIDTH,
>                                )
>
>         self.hSB.config(command=self.y.xview)
>         self.hSB.pack(side=BOTTOM, fill=X)
>         self.vSB.config(command=self.DirList.yview)
>         self.vSB.pack(side=RIGHT, fill=Y)
>         self.DirList.pack(side=LEFT, fill=BOTH, expand=1)

Here self.Dirlist is used, but where is it bound to an object?

Anton.



From pete at shinners.org  Fri Nov  1 12:04:48 2002
From: pete at shinners.org (Pete Shinners)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:04:48 GMT
Subject: Wrapping a .dll under windows with SWIG
References: <8beb91f5.0210312226.7eb08c08@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Quyw9.34302$bt.40931@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

Ben C wrote:
> I want to wrap a .dll under windows and have access to it's functions
> etc. The problem is that all I have is the .dll and header file ... no
> source ... and as all the examples that I have seen for swig seem to
> need the original source ... I was wondering if it is still possible
> to get access to the functions stored in the dll? Would anyone be able
> to point me in the write direction, docs examples etc if this can be
> done at all?

sorry if this is no help at all. I believe there are tools to produce a
.LIB file from a .DLL. I think that is all you should need. Then the
generated SWIG code could be properly linked the the LIB/DLL. Hopefully
that's all it takes, unfortunately you are on your own for figuring out the
DLL to LIB thing.



From jonas.b at home.se  Thu Nov 21 07:29:09 2002
From: jonas.b at home.se (Jonas Bengtsson)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:29:09 GMT
Subject: How to access a property in Outlook using win32com?
References: <mailman.1037849249.16795.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns92CD892C73848jonasbhomese@195.17.59.36>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in
news:mailman.1037849249.16795.python-list at python.org: 
> Heh.  I doubt it, but we can *show* you:  check out the Outlook2000
> directory in the spambayes project:
> 
>     http://tinyurl.com/2vt5
> 
> and especially MAPIMsgStoreMsg._GetMessageText() in msgstore.py there.
> 
> PR_TRANSPORT_MESSAGE_HEADERS is a MAPI property (not part of the
> *Outlook* object model), and it even took Mark Hammond several days to
> figure out how to access it without going thru CDO (Collaboration Data
> Objects -- yet another API-on-an-API-on-an-...).

Thanks!
But I have a hard time to realize how to use that code to extract that 
data from a MailItem object. I guess I need some assistance. One 
alternative is to rewrite the code from msgstore.py to just extract the 
PR_TRANSPORT_MESSAGE_HEADERS provided a specific MailItem object. The 
other alternative is to use parts of msgstore.py directly. What I want is 
to get the headers and the body of all mails in a specific folder. How 
should I use msgstore.py to be able to do that?

Any assistance appreciated!
 
> Be forewarned that the exact meaning of PR_TRANSPORT_MESSAGE_HEADERS
> isn't defined by MAPI, may contain lines that aren't valid SMTP
> headers, and can ne downright strange when looking at msgs handled by
> an Exchange server. For msgs delivered via POP3, they're what you
> expect.  Mostly. 

I can live with that :-)

Regards,
Jonas


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Mon Nov  4 11:47:53 2002
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:47:53 +0100
Subject: Encoding of String
In-Reply-To: <aq67lr$6fj$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <aq67lr$6fj$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3333943.1036432073@[192.168.0.3]>

No, since a unicode string is unicode does not depend on the
encoding it was encoding in.

-aj

--On Montag, 4. November 2002 17:40 +0100 Thomas Guettler 
<zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de> wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Is there a way to get the encoding of a string?
>
> Suppose I do:
>
> mystring="blu"
> ustring=unicode(mystring, "utf-8")
>
> later I want to know which encoding ustring has:
> ustring.getEcoding() --> "utf-8"
>
> Is there something like "getEcoding()"?
>
>   thomas
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   -    Andreas Jung                     http://www.andreas-jung.com   -
  -   EMail: andreas at andreas-jung.com                              -
   -            "Life is too short to (re)write parsers"               -
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------




From gminick at hacker.pl  Sat Nov 23 11:44:12 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:44:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: reliable tcp server holding multiple connections
References: <slrnatvnof.1qc.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <3DDFAEB4.1040506@nospam.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <slrnatvpie.20s.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:37:07 GMT, djw napisa?(a):
> Do you know about Medusa?
Yes, but Medusa it a little bit large. I want to create small code,
proof of concept. An educational example, nothing more.

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 27 14:29:09 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:29:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: re.DOTALL
References: <mailman.1038422918.16102.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnauakng.1vf.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:46:56 -0500, Irina Szabo napisa?(a):
> What is wrong? 
Nothing :) Your code works for me.

--- html.html ---
<html>
line 1
<head>
line 2
</head>
line 3
<body>
<!--
body {  font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color:
#000000}
-->
</body>
line 4
</html>
-----------------

--- py.py ---
import re
w = open("html.html")
a = w.read()
w.close()
matchstr = re.compile(r'''<.*?>''',re.DOTALL|re.MULTILINE)
print matchstr.sub(" ", a)
-------------

% python py.py

line 1

line 2

line 3



line 4


% _

Tested on Linux with:
% python -c "print getattr(__import__('sys'),'version')"
2.2.2 (#1, Oct 16 2002, 18:08:06)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)]
% _

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 12 10:47:58 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:47:58 GMT
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <7h3lm3y23of.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> Is there a source form example of the py docs,

You meant like the Doc/ directory in the source distribution?

[...]

>   Just to take a look at producing docbook from that,
> and to see if XML/XSLT/XSL-FO processing chain could do the job 
> please?

I still don't grok the advantages of a "XML/XSLT/XSL-FO processing
chain", except that Milan has said info production would be easier...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Whaaat? That is the most retarded thing I have seen since, oh,
  yesterday                             -- Kaz Kylheku, comp.lang.lisp


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Tue Nov 12 20:32:02 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:32:02 +1300
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3DD1AB92.3030409@something.invalid>

Bengt Richter wrote:

>  >>> def mkfoo():
>  ...     from math import pi
>  ...     def foo():
>  ...         return pi
>  ...     return foo
>  ...
> 
> What would be best Pythonic practice for getting a foo2? It seems like if there were
> a way to say "do this part once at compile time"


It's not really compile-time that we want to do it,
but module load time, or perhaps function definition
time.

One way would be to use a default-argument hack:

    import math

    def foo(m = math):
       return m.pi

but this has all the usual drawbacks of the default-argument
hack.

This suggests that perhaps there should be a way
of getting something that is just like a default
argument, except that it's not part of the argument
list. Maybe

    def foo():
       const m = math
       return m.pi

The "const" statement would be evaluated when
the "def" was executed, and "m" would appear in the
local namespace when the function was called.

Although "const" might not be the best name for
it, since it's not really a constant, more like
a local with an initial value.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From abuse at nospam.riot.com.au  Thu Nov 21 23:41:24 2002
From: abuse at nospam.riot.com.au (Glen Murphy)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:41:24 +1100
Subject: Web Tracking in Python
References: <mailman.1037912231.7883.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arkchl$2d4v$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

Get a copy of winrar (free) - does .tar files fine. I tested it on follow,
and all I had to do was open the .tar, then open the file contained within
(which spawned another winrar window with the necessary files)

--
http://glenmurphy.com/


"Paul Sage" <psage at ncaustin.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037912231.7883.python-list at python.org...
> My wife has a family webpage that is pretty active.  She uses site
> tracking, but has never been happy with the lack of certain features.
> Can anyone recommend a good Python website tracking package?

> I looked at Follow, but the .TAR doesn't expand properly on Windows
> platforms.  I might be inclined to use it, if I find a more friendly
> version for Windows.  Windows needed as main development platform.  The
> Web server is UNIX based.





From jon at csh.rit.edu  Sun Nov 17 19:57:40 2002
From: jon at csh.rit.edu (Jon Parise)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:57:40 -0500
Subject: Calling local functions from the C API
In-Reply-To: <m38yzsk4ja.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1037483907.16178.python-list@python.org> <m3n0o92lw1.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1037495664.30540.python-list@python.org> <m38yzsk4ja.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20021118005740.GA19299@csh.rit.edu>

On Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 09:02:17AM +0100, Martin v. Loewis wrote:

> Jon Parise <jon at csh.rit.edu> writes:
> 
> > def SomeFunction():
> >     pass
> > 
> > ... gets evaluated by PyRun_RunString().  Later on, I'd like to call
> > SomeFunction from C (embedded Python interpreter).
> > 
> > Is that still not possible without playing with stack frames and such?
> 
> Ah, so you have a char* that has Python source code, and you want to
> run a specific function in it.
> 
> For such questions, always ask yourself how you would achieve this
> effect in pure Python, and then you'll see how to do it in C.
> 
> In Python, you could write
> 
> d = {}
> exec sourcecode in d
> func = d['SomeFunction']
> func()
> 
> Now just do the same in C. Which of the four steps is unclear to you?
 
Thinks makes sense, I think (although I may have more questions when I
work on my actual implementation).

The one thing I note, however, is that I just can't execute arbitrary
blocks of code via PyRun_SimpleString() and expect to be able to
execute a function defined in one of those blocks of code again.
Instead, it looks like I'll need to use Py_CompileString() or similar
to maintain a code object.

Is that correct?

(This is the first time I've actually used this aspect of the Python C
API, so I thank you for your patience.)

-- 
Jon Parise (jon at csh.rit.edu)  ::  http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov 30 17:53:49 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:53:49 -0800
Subject: Python exceptions: is there a way to find the exception attributes?
References: <3DE8F629.4080108@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3DE9417D.4A736D68@alcyone.com>

Pierre Rouleau wrote:

> Is there a way to find out about the existence of these attributes
> without having to read the documentation, using the dir() function or
> something else?
> 
> It would be nice to be able to do that from the interpreter.  The only
> thing i have found using dir() is shown below and it does not give me
> the attributes.
	...
> Of course, I could force an exception and print it like:
	...
> Is this the only way ?

Without inspecting the code, probably.  The details about the exception
are instance attributes, not class attributes, so you won't find them by
simple inspection of the class type; you'd have to look at the actual
code of the exception's __init__ method.

Especially in the face of user-defined exceptions, the best way to
proceed is by inspecting the instance attributes of an actual exception
object after the fact.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You are the lovers rock / The rock that I cling to
\__/ Sade
    Church / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/church/
 A lambda calculus explorer in Python.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 27 12:50:56 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:50:56 -0500
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <698f09f8.0211261046.582254a5@posting.google.com> <3DE40E21.A547F49E@alcyone.com> <698f09f8.0211270143.5a3b9f0f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <W5KdnWMGT5Sem3igXTWcog@comcast.com>

"Jeremy Fincher" <tweedgeezer at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:698f09f8.0211270143.5a3b9f0f at posting.google.com...
> But I think it would be more appropriate for map/filter to return
> sequences of the same type as their argument sequences, not just
> return lists blindly.  And that requires that map/filter be methods,
> not functions over sequences.

There is some sense to this, but:

1. Does not apply to reduce, which produces summary that depends on
type of contents, not container.

2. When map and filter were added with reduce, strings and tuples did
not have methods.  Now that they do, we can, I believe, derive a
subtype with added methods.

3. One can easily convert list output to desired sequence type by
feeding it back through the constructor of the desired type.  String
and tuple constructors need a sequence of fixed length.  Thus,
tuple.filter(f), for instance, would have to scan the tuple twice
anyway.

4. tuple(filter(f,seq)) is much more general than tuple.filter(f).

5. Map can be a function of multiple sequences (iterables), possibly
of multiple types, including generators.  It is then not sensibly a
method of any one.

Terry J. Reedy







From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov  7 12:39:29 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:39:29 GMT
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
References: <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h365v9z3hf.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> writes:

> I mean, what first year (or any year, for that matter!) languages
> force people to [snip] stay away from creating 1000-line functions?

If any language does this, it would be Python...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  MGM will not get your whites whiter or your colors brighter.
  It will, however, sit there and look spiffy while sucking down
  a major honking wad of RAM.              -- http://www.xiph.org/mgm/


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov 15 15:08:58 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:08:58 -0600
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <t3iatu891qt9n74hfld92cnqgmmgg02jdv@4ax.com>
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
        <4STA9.9987$744.345722@news1.tin.it>
        <jc58tugirbnbtn1i7e2kf7of4l3ltt665e@4ax.com>
        <mailman.1037315122.20415.python-list@python.org>
        <3DD44152.69795B9F@alcyone.com>
        <mailman.1037334449.14338.python-list@python.org>
        <t3iatu891qt9n74hfld92cnqgmmgg02jdv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <15829.21594.896779.746111@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Manuel> I will plead that the metric I should used was the ratio of
    Manuel> daily referenced documentation versus productivity in varied
    Manuel> programming tasks.  Python's ratio is pretty darn good, the best
    Manuel> I have found.

Indeed.  With very rare exception, the only documentation tools I need are
the builtin help() function and the global module index:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/modindex.html

Fred Drake and his minions do a wonderful job keeping the documentation
within spitting distance of the source code.

I don't use any of those fancy-schmancy IDEs, though I do use python-mode,
which has F1 bound to call help() on the dotted attribute expression under
the cursor.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From jryan at rackspace.com  Fri Nov 15 07:13:00 2002
From: jryan at rackspace.com (Justin Ryan)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 06:13:00 -0600
Subject: changing unix password with python
Message-ID: <1037362380.9533.126.camel@justin>

Heya all..

Is there a python module that would facilitate changing a unix system
user's password (preferably via PAM rather than directly modifying
/etc/shadow)?

Thanks!

-Justin
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From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov 20 02:05:50 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:05:50 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org> <slrnasuojg.l14.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3DDB344E.2E2B7658@alcyone.com>

Robin Munn wrote:

> Out of curiosity, do you think a response like: "That's covered in the
> Python tutorial -- look at [URL]" will strike a newbie as friendly or
> not?

Unless insults are thrown into the response, I don't see why not -- or
at the very least, if a newbie concludes that an answer to his question
is rude simply because the responder didn't spend fifteen minutes
crafting a reply to a question that has already been answered so many
times that it is included in a FAQ, that newbie needs to learn a little
more about Usenet, not just Python.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Seat thyself sultanically among the moons of Saturn.
\__/ Herman Melville
    Official Omega page / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/omega/
 The official distribution page for the popular Roguelike, Omega.


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Tue Nov 26 04:43:09 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:43:09 +0100
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <arsni0$pnk$1@news.netpower.no> <slrnau4sle.9as.grante@localhost.localdomain> <sss5uus0o18jtdi2lcpp3605vfgscmvmum@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <arvflb$hur$1@news.netpower.no>

"Courageous" <jkraska at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:sss5uus0o18jtdi2lcpp3605vfgscmvmum at 4ax.com...
> On 25 Nov 2002 18:56:10 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <arsni0$pnk$1 at news.netpower.no>, David Brown wrote:
> >
> >>> I never liked filter, map and reduce.
> >
> >So don't use them. ;)
>
> Lambda is an abortion, imo. It should be deprecated, and eventually
> removed from the language. It doesn't do what it set out to do
particularly
> well, and suffers from the double sin of being a construct that is
> inherently anti-pythonic. The subset of list comprehensions that can
> be used to do what map/reduce-lambda do are an example of something
> that does what it was intended, is clear, and pythonic.
>
> Just an opinion,
>

Everyone is entitled to their opinion - I happen to like lambda.  I am
comfortable with map(lambda ... ) expressions, but I suppose I should really
use list comprehensions more for that sort of thing.  It depends on whether
I am thinking that I am applying a function to each element in a list, or I
am wanting a new list based on another list with a function applied to each
element.  It amounts to the same thing, but it is viewing it from a
different angle.

But I use lambda functions regularly outside of that.  The alternative is
either far more small functions cluttering the source code and namespace, or
making function-construction functions.  There are definitely some uses for
that sort of thing (lambda has its limitations), but there is no point in
removing a feature that many people find useful just because some people
find it a little odd and out-of-place.





From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov  9 09:49:17 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 14:49:17 GMT
Subject: Point an MS Access / VB developer in the right direction...
References: <3dcb9830$1@duster.adelaide.on.net> <3dccd9eb@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <Nf9z9.9765$Bs5.334884@news1.tin.it>

Ben C wrote:

> ... SQLite is typless and doesn't have ODBC connectivity as far as I
> know?? (though someone might have written an ODBC driver for it) ...

http://www.ch-werner.de/sqliteodbc/


Alex



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Nov  4 03:21:57 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 09:21:57 +0100
Subject: Tkinter disregards font encoding
References: <6e990e29.0211040009.33127f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j4n0op68yi.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier) writes:

> My code's like this:
> Font   = '-*-helvetica-bold-r-normal-*-12-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-15'
> 
>     w = Label(master, font=Font, textvariable=self.priceVar,
> justify=RIGHT)
> 
> But I do not get the expected Euro sign; Tk uses definitely the
> *-iso8859-1 variant. The -15 is installed, I can use it with other
> applications and look at it with xfd.

What is the value of self.priceVar?

> Does anyone have an idea how I might circumvent that problem?

Here is my theory: you are using a Latin-1 locale, and use a byte
string for the priceVar, where you use '\xe4' to denote the EURO SIGN.
However, in Latin-1, '\xe4' denotes the CURRENCY SIGN. Tk tries to
convert the local encoding (latin-1) into the font encoding (latin-9);
since latin-9 does not support the CURRENCY SIGN, this conversion
fails.

Instead, you should use a Unicode string to denote the EURO SIGN,
which would be u'\u20ac'.

HTH,
Martin


From gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk  Thu Nov  7 16:17:10 2002
From: gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:17:10 +0000
Subject: "Universal Gateway"
References: <apkc4c$d5s$2@pith.uoregon.edu> <n0oxjc6f.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk>
 <Rejw9.22645$jE1.72970@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
 <1y63gc02.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk>
 <Y_Nx9.14995$5u4.46256@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
 <heewyxlc.fsf@ion-tof.com>
 <ursy9.23689$5u4.72621@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
 <fzud3760.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <k7jp6pwp.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> Ok, it seems I cannot escape, now that ctypes also was mentioned in
> the Daily Python-URL, so I will also announce it here, after some
> cleanup.

Having looked at this, I'm very impressed. calldll did the job, but I
was never completely happy with its interface. Your code is far nicer,
and makes things very clean.

I was interested in the support for callbacks, and as there wasn't a
sample script in the distribution, I had a go at writing one. Took me
no more than a few minutes (most of which was looking up prototypes in
MSDN!) and worked straight off. It was a very nice experience :-)

In case you're interested, here's the code (just lists the window
titles of all the windows in the system).

---- cut here ----

from ctypes import windll, CFunction, c_string
user32 = windll.user32

class EnumWindowsProc(CFunction):
    _types_ = "ii"
    _stdcall_ = 1

def DisplayWindow(hwnd, lparam):
    title = c_string('\000' * 256)
    user32.GetWindowTextA(hwnd, title, 255)
    print title.value

enumproc = EnumWindowsProc(DisplayWindow)

user32.EnumWindows(enumproc, 0)

------------------

Paul.

-- 
This signature intentionally left blank


From jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com  Tue Nov  5 15:16:06 2002
From: jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com (Jim)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:16:06 GMT
Subject: pyqt rules
References: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <mailman.1036370164.21605.python-list@python.org> <2Dkx9.42039$Lg2.11444432@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1036400645.4450.python-list@python.org> <aq6gl5$k20$1@reader1.tiscali.nl> <3DC6E304.6070507@SPAMnwinternet.com> <3DC7B220.BF77CADB@philips.com>
Message-ID: <3DC826E2.9070207@SPAMnwinternet.com>

Gerrit Muller wrote:

>>from: http://www.trolltech.com/developer/faqs/noncomm.html

>>"What is the Qt Non-Commercial Edition for Microsoft Windows?
>>-----------------------------------------------------------

>>You may freely use Qt Non-Commercial Edition for:

>>* Running software legally developed by others
>>* Developing non-commercial software"

> I  am creating a freely accessible website
> http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/index.html at home
> as well as during working hours. At both places I work with Windows
> (strongest dependency is the use of Visio). I maintain the site by means
> of Python scripts. Taking the above license literal I might use Qt at
> home for free, but not at work. Yes that is clear, but not stimulating
> to dive in :-(

You should be able to run eric (which I believe
was the main complaint). I would think that falls
in the category "Running software legally developed
by others"

It doesn't seem like you really need Qt for
development, but if the website is non-commercial,
the second category above should apply as well. I
haven't read the license in a long time, but it
sounds like restrictions are related to development
only, not use.

However, I don't know if the non-commercial
version of Qt is recent enough to support all of
the new features coming in the next eric release.


Jim



From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Thu Nov 21 02:47:17 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:47:17 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <acrhra.634.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3DDC8FEE.7090904@nyc.rr.com>


Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> Alexander Schmolck fed this fish to the penguins on Wednesday 20 
> November 2002 04:40 pm:
> 
> 
>>macros would make it feasible to write extremely readable code (even
>>
> 
>         Forgive my intrusion but...
> 
>         Macros have always seemed to me to be a means of implementing 
> work-arounds for what a language lacks in its native definition. 


Not a workaround, but a way to embed a domain-specific language within 
Lisp. Or just to hide a lot of plumbing that would otherwise clutter up 
the code. But, hey, there is at least one CL venerable who does not 
think macros are necessary.


> Granted, the only languages I've been exposed to with macros are the C 
> family,...


That one I know, and it just substitutes tokens. In CL a macro is CL 
code which than rewrite its input (the "body" argument) to generate new 
code actually seen by the compiler.


>         Macros in LISP may make it possible to write "extremely readable code" 
> -- but what level of LISP expertise is required to write those macros?



Not much. It's just that you are writing code which takes apart the 
client code and reassembles it to suit some package, saving the client 
all that trouble. (That sounds like a function, hence the opposition to 
macros by the fellow i mentioned before.) I can macroexpand code to 
check what form the compiler will see, but when I screw up I usually 
find out at compile or runtime.


> 
>         If you have to supply the macros ahead of time, the users aren't 
> learning LISP, they are learning "MacroExtendedLISP"...


Yes, macros could be abused that way. but key is to produce a 
/different/ domain-specific language, say a 3d-animation "language" 
which swims with the host code.



kenny
clinisys



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Nov 18 15:56:06 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:56:06 -0600
Subject: changing the Python grammar ?
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0211181221.2eab9db7@posting.google.com>
References: <2259b0e2.0211181221.2eab9db7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15833.21478.461611.451833@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Michele> Suppose for instance I want to make able Python to recognize
    Michele> identifiers starting with some funny symbol, say "@". All I
    Michele> must do is to modify the first line of the grammar as

    Michele> identifier ::= 
    Michele>                ["@"] (letter|"_") (letter | digit | "_")*

Sure, take a look at the file Grammar/Grammar in the source distribution.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From magnus at thinkware.se  Fri Nov  1 17:11:06 2002
From: magnus at thinkware.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 23:11:06 +0100
Subject: HTMLgen replacment module
References: <3dc0f443$0$4714@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <GTCw9.822$%2.88@news1.bredband.com>

Nicholas Yue wrote:
>     Given that the last update of HTMLgen is 1998, is there any update or a
> replacement package?

A few... Maybe there should be one in the standard lib?
This is a common enough task, not a big module to maintain,
and less duplication and more focused maintenance could be
good.

This module could cover the (X)HTML standard, and then people
could make their own modules for document types and other
higher level constructs.

Today, you have a few choices, for instance:
http://dustman.net/andy/python/HyperText/ and
http://www.livinglogic.de/Python/xist/

See also
http://www.thinkware.se/cgi-bin/thinki.cgi/PythonForInternet



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sun Nov  3 17:26:06 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 14:26:06 -0800
Subject: Parsing & question about usages off classes!
References: <docx9.172161$Mf5.8344841@Flipper> <iWcx9.81076$TD1.3676165@news2.tin.it> <0efx9.175905$Mf5.8592441@Flipper>
Message-ID: <up74qa.sr3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Frans fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 03 November 2002 11:58 am:

        Yes, it's me again...

> I want to create several new list. The name off the new lists will
> come from another list. That way I can create several lists, depending
> on the data received from logfiles. Is that possible ?
> 
> Or isnt that a good idea either ? :)
> 
> So basicly:
> my_list['some','data']
> variable = my_list[0]
> variable = list
> 
> Now this doesnt work, but the result I want is a new list with the
> name 'some'.
> 
        NOT recommended but seems to work on my system...

>>> globals()
{'__builtins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>, '__name__': 
'__main__', '__doc__': None}
>>> alist = ['log1', 'log3', 'log2', 'logn']
>>> i = 0
>>> for lg in alist:
...     globals()[lg] = [i,'log data', i*20]
...     i = i+1
...
>>> globals()
{'lg': 'logn', 'log2': [2, 'log data', 40], 'log3': [1, 'log data', 
20], 'log1': [0, 'log data', 0], 'i': 4, 'alist': ['log1', 'log3', 
'log2', 'logn'], '__builtins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>, 
'logn': [3, 'log data', 60], '__name__': '__main__', '__doc__': None}
>>> log1
[0, 'log data', 0]
>>> log2
[2, 'log data', 40]
>>> log3
[1, 'log data', 20]
>>> logn
[3, 'log data', 60]


        But again, you have the problem that you either have to KNOW the name 
to code it (as in the last displays), OR you need to access it by using:

globals()[string_containing_name]

        If you have to use that reference anyways, why hassle with modifying 
the global scope -- just create your own dictionary and reference it 
(as my prior post does).

-- 
--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Tue Nov 26 07:00:11 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:00:11 -0800
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
In-Reply-To: <20021126101601.3518.73128.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021126101601.3518.73128.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18GeQM-0000rs-00@falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Tuesday 26 November 2002 02:16 am,  David Brown wrote:
> Good names are the key to readable and maintanable programming. ?But there
> are plenty of cases where no name is better than some dummy name. ?If you
> have to refer to something, it should have a good, sensible name. ?If you
> don't have to refer to it, then it is an advantage to have no name - it
> saves cluttering namespaces, and it makes dir() more useful.

Yes, I agree. I think lambda does the same thing
for functions that literals do for basic variable types:

# Using a temporary variable...
a = 2
myfunc(a)

# ... is analogous to defining a single-use function ...
def a():
    return 2
mydispatch(a)

# ... whereas using a literal ...
myfunc(2)

# ... is like using lambda
mydispatch(lambda x: 2)

These are not only shorter than the temporary variable/named-function
versions, they are clearer -- since the name "a" doesn't carry any meaning.
It's only conceivable meaning is transparently what it does (i.e. return a 2),
so it serves no documentation purpose to name it. In this case, defining it
in place really makes more sense.

Of course if the function did something complicated, I'd far rather have a
descriptive name attached to it, and it would require more than a simple
expression (probably) to define it. The same thing applies to variables -- if
you must do some complex arithmetic to figure it out, it probably makes
sense to do the math, name it something appropriate to indicate
conceptually what the quantity is, and then pass it on to the function.

The existing lambda seems appropriate for encouraging this behavior, 
since it's difficult to express any function complicated enough to confuse
the reader as a simple expression (I've seen it done for show -- but it
doesn't seem like it would happen much in practice).

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Fri Nov  8 06:17:46 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 11:17:46 GMT
Subject: string.strip
References: <mailman.1036744990.32317.python-list@python.org> <slrnasn36r.tk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C06BD1DA30Bduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrnasn720.184.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <Xns92C06BD1DA30Bduncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>, Duncan Booth wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote in
> news:slrnasn36r.tk.gerhard.haering at haering.opus-gmbh.net: 
> 
>> In article <mailman.1036744990.32317.python-list at python.org>, Stano
>> Paska wrote: 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> in documentation: string.strip(s[, chars])
>>> but in real life strip takes only 1 parameter
>>> 
>>> I have python 2.2.2
>> 
>> But you've read the documentation for 2.3. (.../doc/current on
>> python.org). 
> 
> Did you check your answer before posting?
> 
> See
> http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.2/lib/module-string.html#l2h-698

Only with the 2.2.1 docs from ActivePython. Sorry about that.

-- Gerhard


From gumuz at looze.net  Wed Nov 13 04:21:33 2002
From: gumuz at looze.net (Gumuz)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:21:33 +0100
Subject: python gui rant
Message-ID: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

sorry guys/girls, but i had to vent this :)


i am using wxPython at the moment as my python gui. Coming from a nice IDE
like Delphi it's really frustrating to get a nice layout together. I tried
some tools. The one i liked most, because of it's simplicity was wxGlade,
but still... it's not there yet. I might have missed something here and I
don't want to complain, but I think that a good, robust gui-designer will
open up a lot of posibilities for python. i might give it a shot!

thanks,
guyon




From threeseas at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 23 16:28:11 2002
From: threeseas at earthlink.net (Timothy Rue)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 21:28:11 GMT
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net><743utuoi3l31t8e8tt9v3sncosuk2gqi02@4ax.com><1239.92T1047T4844497threeseas@earthlink.net> <mailman.1038067952.28943.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4992.92T2618T9825720threeseas@earthlink.net>

On 23-Nov-02 11:11:30 John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> "Timothy" == Timothy Rue <threeseas at earthlink.net> writes:

>    Timothy> they exist here too.

>They are everywhere <wink>

>    Timothy> so what the fuck don't you understand about a named
>    Timothy> container that can hold changable information? Like a
>    Timothy> variable or a file.

>If you say named container, to a python coder, they will think list,
>tuple, dict and maybe string.  They definitely would not initially
>think about a 'variable or file'.

>"variables" in python are a little different than in other programming
>languages.  python has "names" for objects.  This example illustrates
>one of the initially surprising ways names work

[snip - see thread]

John, thank you for your effort to describe some of the differences.
Correction to your example, by another, noted.

In summary what you are saying is that there is a tower of babel between
not only client and coder but between languages as well. The result of
this is that anyone in the position of a client really needs to learn the
details of whatever specific language, including any other specifics of
the use of a language, such as platform dependant issues, before they
consider hiring a coder to produce, what the client designs. Otherwise how
the hell is the client to communicate to the coder what the fuck they
want?

This to me is a clear indication of what can only be described as a
serious failure of the software industry to properly take into
consideration client perspective and client communication vocabulary and
dictionary set. It further opens the door up for deception of the coders
side, as they can always play vocabulary trip up games to drag things out
and cost up.

Currently the only notable effort there is to improve this failing is the
ECMA-335 document on Common Language Infrastructure done unfortunately by
Microsoft, as they are criminal regardless of getting off the hook. It is
however a task anyone could have done, as it is more a matter of man hours
rather than genius, to collect it all up, sort it all out and then
integrate it into a non-conflicting manner.

What the CLI is, is a sum total of programming concepts and datatypes,
integrated in a non-conflicting manner. This of course having it's own
Common Intermediate Language.... and run time engine.

With this why would anyone continue to need language specific complexity,
not to mention other dependant issues, when all they really need to do is
speak concepts and datatypes to a translator that generates bytecode?

But the problem is that we are no there yet and Microsoft has every
intention of using such "common" to corner the next step or stage of
software industry development.... autocoding.

Now if I have a choice to go and use MS coders using CLI to speak with me
in, that I can use that as a vocabulary set of concepts to communicate
what I want.... or play the tower of babeling BS and drain of my bank
account due it... which way do you think I or anyone being given that
choice, would go?

The real problem is the tower of babel. OBVIOUSLY!

I believe you understand that.Unfortunately there are those who also
understand that but use it dishonestly.


The apex of the problem I seek a solution to is one of providing sharable
resources of the type known in the language of shell speak.... Variables.

Variable_name ; tag ; value
variable_name ; tag ; value
etc...


placed in a file, so that the resource is available to any number of
possible read and write accesses, as well as stored for later use, even
after the system is turned off. Not to mention being in a directly human
readable and editable format (i.e. the above)

All is fine untill you have concurrent accesses that include at least one
write. Unfortunately in python there is no platform independant way to
apply locks and unlocks.

There are a number of ways to handle the data, dictionary, dbm, Shelves,
pickle, etc..

But these still don't handle the concurrent access problem in a platform
independant manner.

Now it is possible that concurrent access problems would be rare, and
there is a way to intentionall force sequence of accesses when it is known
in advance but I hate lose strings that when pulled causes alot to come
undone.

Interesting enough the Hurd servers comes to mind, as in a custom
filehandeling server that handles concurrent accesses to prevent such
problems. But the Hurd is a platform yet to have a production release, and
such a solution is dependant upon the platform being used and such a
custom filehandler being written.

any suggestions?

---
*3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!*
   *~ ~ ~      Advancing How we Perceive and Use the Tool of Computers!*
Timothy Rue      What's *DONE* in all we do?  *AI PK OI IP OP SF IQ ID KE*
Email @ mailto:timrue at mindspring.com      >INPUT->(Processing)->OUTPUT>v
Web @ http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/  ^<--------<----9----<--------<



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  5 12:33:37 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:33:37 -0500
Subject: How does Python handle probing to see if a file already exists?
References: <mailman.1036508171.27010.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xW-dne3sx7NwY1qgXTWcpA@comcast.com>

<sismex01 at hebmex.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1036508171.27010.python-list at python.org...
> > From: Christopher R. Culver
[mailto:Kricxjo.neniuspamajxo at yahoo.com]
> > However, translating that directly into Python doesn't work
because
> > if Python can't find a file to open, it doesn't just return 0, it
> > gives an error and exits. How can I write this functionality in
Python
> > so that it returns 0 and continues, or does Python have a totally
> > different way of handling this problem than C?

> Others have talked about the goodness of using try/except, I'll
> say to use os.access(), which is precisely for what you're asking,
> if you can read or write a file.
>
> -- check if writeable --
>
> import os
> if os.access("some-filename", os.W_OK):
>    # neat, I can write to the file.

But only IF nothing happens to the file between the before-leap look
and the leap itself.  If another process deletes the file, changes
permissions, or opens it for writing in between, then the OP is back
where he started  -- getting an uncaught, program-crashing exception.
Or opening could fail for lack of OS open-file slots, buffers,
whatever or writing could fail for lack of disk space.  Whether or not
this is a serious concern depends on the system and enironment the
program runs in.

TJR




From imbosol at vt.edu  Wed Nov 13 13:41:00 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:41:00 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <7h3smy5zj8k.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqu7ka$ihb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> writes:
> 
>> do_A()
>> if test_based_on_A():
>>     take_action_A()
>> else:
>>     do_B()
>>     if test_based_on_B():
>>         take_action_B()
>>     else:
>>         do_C()
>>         if test_based_in_C():
>>             take_action_C()
>>         else:
>>             ...
> 
> *This* is asking to be written as a loop:

Not for me.  I wouldn't use a loop in this situation, unless the
operations in the loop were dynamic.  The loop interrupts the logical
flow and makes it a chore for a human reader to track down what's
happening.  I'll probably just factor the whole sequence into a
function and use return when I got a match.

I guess some people have hissyfits if they have to use break or
return; I don't.


and-if-I-were-programming-in-C-I'd-just-use-goto-ly yr's

-- 
CARL BANKS


From Robert_NJ_Sykes at msn.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 12:16:50 2002
From: Robert_NJ_Sykes at msn.co.uk (Rob Sykes)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 17:16:50 GMT
Subject: COM interfaces and inheritance
References: <Xns92CB6026FC70Brobjohnrichardcouk@192.168.0.246> <kRqC9.27602$744.1004200@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <Xns92CBAFC9DF4FArobjohnrichardcouk@192.168.0.246>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in
news:kRqC9.27602$744.1004200 at news1.tin.it: 

>> 
>> class foo():
>>     pass
>> 

>> class bar(foo):
>>     self.stuff = 7
> 
> Invalid Python on several scores.

Apologies. More haste less speed...

class foo:
    pass

class bar(foo):
    def __init__(self):
        self.stuff = 7

but you *knew* what I meant :-). I've had Delphi and VB in my head 
today

There's COM stuff else-thread. I'll have a read

-- 
Rob Sykes 

Born again Bairn                  | 'The despair I can live with.
rob at john-richard dot co dot uk |  It's the hope I can't stand'
(header email for spambots)       |  (Anon.)


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Wed Nov 20 14:37:16 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:37:16 GMT
Subject: gc (was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?)
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3DDBE4C7.6060308@nyc.rr.com>


Kenny Tilton wrote:
>   true garbage collection (I am /not/ looking forward to reference 
> counting or the hoops one has to jump thru to handle cyclic refs)

Someone was kind enough to email me that the above is mistaken. I just 
revisited the page where I got that info, turns out it was 2000. My 
correspondent did not specify, but is this provided by the optional GC 
module, or is it now just part of core Python?

Either way, great news.

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 13 01:59:25 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 06:59:25 GMT
Subject: newbie question: how to get directory of script?
References: <4cce07d5.0211120957.6d4934@posting.google.com> <aqrhuf$qg6$1@news.vcd.hp.com> <3DD1B65D.AE624740@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <slrnat3uao.p3b.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Tom McDermott <spon at cisco.com> wrote:
> djw wrote:
>> 
>> os.getcwd()
>> 
> No such luck. This (at least on linux) returns the directory from which
> the script is invoked, rather than the directory of the script.
> 
> I use sys.path[0], but that doesn't seem to be the official method.

I don't know why Windows is putting the name of the script in
sys.argv[1] instead of sys.argv[0] -- that bothers me. But if you know
the name of the script, then you can do:

script_dir = os.path.dirname(os.path.abspath(script_name))

Or:

script_dir, script_basename = os.path.split(os.path.abspath(script_name))

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi  Sat Nov  9 14:05:20 2002
From: martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi (Martti Halminen)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 21:05:20 +0200
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7h31y5uyj81.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <slrnasqf9a.mjr.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3DCD5C70.1981C152@kolumbus.fi>

Robin Munn wrote:

> I think I was weirded out by Python's indentation like just about
> everyone else who was coming from something like C -- but I quickly grew
> used to it.
> 
> Lisp's parentheses, OTOH, I never got used to. Having to constantly stop
> and count parentheses to remember where I was in my program structure
> quickly went from novel to irritating and never recovered. Most of the
> other students in my CS class agreed with me about the Lots of
> Irritating Superfluous Parentheses.
> 
> The only thing that could make me at all comfortable with using Lisp
> would be if I had an editor that would color-highlight not keywords or
> strings, as color-highlighting usually goes, but levels of parenthesis
> indentation. So that this:
> 
> (a (b (c (d e))))
> 
> would have 'a' in one color, 'b' in a second, 'c' in a third, and 'd e'
> in a fourth.

The secret in programming in Lisp is not to count the parentheses. After
a few months, they pretty much disappear from sight. Counting parens is
for the compiler and editor, the humans read Lisp code based on
indentation (and the editor (emacs, mostly) takes care of that, so the
programmer doesn't have to bother...).
This should be rather easy for Python programmers to understand :-)

--


From bdash at gmx.net  Mon Nov 11 02:41:04 2002
From: bdash at gmx.net (Mark Rowe)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:41:04 +1300
Subject: Reusing Address with Sockets
In-Reply-To: <o9Ez9.384$hl7.187195619@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <EE70E29E-F548-11D6-B863-00039344A992@gmx.net>

On Monday, Nov 11, 2002, at 14:58 Pacific/Auckland, Kuros wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am writing a TCP server program, and everything is working fine, 
> except
> for one minor problem. When I close the program, I cannot reuse the 
> same
> address, I have to change the port it runs on. Now, I've tried to do 
> this:
>
> sock.setsockopt(SO_REUSEADDR, SO_LINGER, 1)

Hello,

That line should be

sock.setsockopt(SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, 1)

The setsockopt man page details this and other socket options.

Mark




From theller at python.net  Tue Nov 19 14:28:16 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 20:28:16 +0100
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
Message-ID: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net>

I recently announced ctypes, see
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes.html

I've got some enthusiastic responses, and also some requests to port
this to other systems. So I'm currently porting it to Linux.

I have an early version running, but I have some questions for
experienced linux people.  Certainly off-topic here, but I hopefully I
get bright answers fast also to these questions.  Here we go:

Section A: libffi

1.  I use Anthony Green's libffi. I subscribed to the mailinglist at
redhat and asked questions there, but no response so far.  This list
seems pretty dead.  From what I found on the web, libffi is included
in gcc starting with 3.0 or so.  I cannot check this myself, I use an
oldish suse 7.0 linux here. Is it correct that libffi is still covered
by the MIT license, and not GPL or LGPL?


2.  I would like to throw away some of my own code and use libffi
instead also for Windows.  Since libffi uses gnu's assembler syntax,
it would be easiest to crosscompile the library under linux for
Windows, at least for starting.  I've heard this is possible using
MingW, is this correct?  (Ahem) In this case, would some kind soul be
willing to do it?


Section B: general linux questions

3.  When my extension does something wrong, I see
'Speicherzugriffsfehler' ('access violation' or so) printed on the
console.  Why isn't a core dump (for examination) created? Do I have
to enable this?  Or is it possible to configure gdb so that it will
automatically pop up to examine the program's state?

4.  When I have undefined symbols in my shared extension module, I get
an 'ImportError: /.../_ctypes.so: undefined symbol: blabla' when the
module is loaded. Is this normal? Why doesn't the linker complain?


Section C (and now we're on-topic again): understanding the Python
interpreter lock

5.  I got crashes when using callbacks, they vanished when I called
PyEval_InitThreads().  This was unneeded on Windows, I assume because
on Windows PyEval_InitThreads() has been called before.  My question
is: why do I have to call this function on Linux, but not on Windows?
Does it do any harm if I call the function when the ctypes module is
loaded, or should I wait until the callbacks are actually needed?


Thanks for any advice,

Thomas


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 27 23:45:03 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:45:03 +1300
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE59F4F.1090004@something.invalid>

Mikael Olofsson wrote:

>   Is that behaviour intended?
>   Is it likely to stay that way?


Yes and yes. Consider that when you do

   from A import f

you probably want f to still work properly
even if it calls other functions defined
in A or otherwise relies on things living
in A.

If it didn't work this way, you'd have
to not only import f but all the things
that f relied on as well!

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 18 18:31:22 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 15:31:22 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
In-Reply-To: <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net>
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
	 <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	 <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <1037662282.27904.237.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 14:59, Richard Dillingham wrote:
> It doesn't have ()s, so it ain't two tuples. Easy enough, da?

Incorrect.  Consider:

Python 2.2.1 (#1, Aug 30 2002, 12:15:30)
[GCC 3.2 20020822 (Red Hat Linux Rawhide 3.2-4)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> t = 1, 2
>>> t
(1, 2)
>>> type(t)
<type 'tuple'>
>>>

No parentheses, yet still a tuple.  At this point perhaps you should
<ahem> RTFM ;)


Also, please don't top-post.

Regards,


> "Carl Banks" <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote in message
> news:arbqp2$rkb$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu...
> > Richard Dillingham wrote:
> > > Kind of like we have multiple assignments in a line (oldx,oldy=x,y),
> what do
> > > you think of the ability to have multiple tests in an if statement with
> only
> > > one == or >=.
> > >
> > > This would mean that lines like the following:
> > > if posx>=coords[0] and posy>=coords[1] and posx<=coords[2] and
> > > posy<=coords[3]:
> > >
> > > Could be rewritten like so:
> > > if posx,posy>=coords[0],coords[1] and posx,posy<=coords[2],coords[3]
> >
> > How would you disambiguate that from a comparison of two tuples?
> >
> >
> > --
> > CARL BANKS
-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From kennedy.bill at freeuk.com  Wed Nov 20 08:19:07 2002
From: kennedy.bill at freeuk.com (William Kennedy)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 07:19:07 -0600
Subject: Pickles
Message-ID: <Xns92CC8CF529BBDkennedybillnospamfre@208.149.207.130>

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

How big can a pickled object be.

I am looking at an index 800 records long, should I be using a database

-- 
---
william kennedy
remove .nospam from email address

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From psage at ncaustin.com  Fri Nov  8 11:02:15 2002
From: psage at ncaustin.com (Paul Sage)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:02:15 -0600
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
Message-ID: <03F53405C6ED434A986221919785A6A70154F5E3@nca-postal.ncaustin.com>

Having worked a bit with LISP, in college, and Python, as a scripting
language for computer game work, my feelings about the two are very
different.  

I remember LISP was cool in that we could do some neat math proofs with
it, and it had applications that made formula translation (textbook to
code) quick and nifty.  However, LISP also was not obvious to me as a
'real-world' language because it just always felt like I had to recreate
the wheel when I used it for anything applicable to a real world
application.  We also nicknamed LISP - Little, Insignificant, Stupid
Parentheses.  Maybe that holds as my most common complaint, it was darn
hard to read someone else's LISP code quickly.

Python on the other hand has been pretty easy to pick up for the tasks I
need it to do.  I have been surprised at just how easy I can do
something useful quickly.  The other night I wrote a quick few lines of
code to move files around without even thinking about it.  

In all fairness, my impression of LISP was based around a language I had
to learn in college and the tasks that were assigned to me.  Python is a
language we are using at work, so I spend more time trying to figure out
what it can do in the real world. 

Note, by no means am I a software engineer.  I'm just an average Joe who
is mucking around, so that is my average Joe impression.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oleg [mailto:oleg_inconnu at myrealbox.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 6:54 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
> 
> Hi
> 
> I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
> between Python and Common Lisp (
> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
> 
> Oleg
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From ulbi at ivs.tu-berlin.de  Mon Nov 11 05:25:38 2002
From: ulbi at ivs.tu-berlin.de (Andreas Ulbrich)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:25:38 +0100
Subject: [Jython] out of memory during jythonc compilation
References: <CHiz9.46580$Lg2.13026394@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <aqo0j2$nj0$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>

Robert Oschler wrote:
> I tried to compile a python file using the following options:
> 
> jythonc --deep --jar new.jar new.py
> 
> After cranking away for several minutes, it terminated with an "out of
> memory" message, and suggested increasing the heap size with the "-mx"
> option.  I then tried:
> 
> jythonc -J-mx1000000 --deep --jar new.jar new.py
> 
> And got the same error.  I then tried  50M instead of 1M for the heap size
> and still go an "out of memory" error.  new.py pulls in the Jython XML
> package structure, and the memory error always occurs right after
> "processing codecs".  Anybody know what I might be able to do about this?
> 
> thx
I've had similar problems quite a while ago when Jython was called 
JPython and had version numbers less than two. Increasing the heap size 
helped, but you may want to try something more substantial than 50 MB. 
Give it everything your machine has. I managed to compile everything 
when the heapsize was at least 256 MB. A fast machine comes handy, too :-)



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Nov  2 10:00:02 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 15:00:02 +0000
Subject: Using windll with complex data types
References: <8beb91f5.0211020556.30107507@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0qxMNUAyh+w9EwJw@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <8beb91f5.0211020556.30107507 at posting.google.com>, Ben C <benc1 at today.com.au> writes
....
I use the structob module to create structured things as for pointers
they are the address of something.

so for example a lasterror function looks like

def _lastErrorMessage(n=None):
        msg = windll.cstring('',512)
        kernel32.FormatMessageA(
                        FORMAT_MESSAGE_FROM_SYSTEM | FORMAT_MESSAGE_IGNORE_INSERTS,
                        0,
                        n is None and GetLastError() or n,
                        0,
                        msg.address(),
                        len(msg)-1,
                        0
                        )
        return repr(msg)[1:-1]

we create the buffer and pass its address to the FormatMessage function.

If you really need pointer to pointer you need to create a buffer that holds the real address

eg
class pointer(structob.struct_object):
        oracle = structob.Oracle (
                'pointer',
                'Nl',
                ('ref',)
                )

then you can do

msg = windll.cstring('',512)
p=pointer()
p.ref = msg.address

so p points to msg and p.address() is a pointer to a pointer
>
>How does one pass reference to a pointer in a function?
>
>How does one retrieve data back from that pointer?
>
>How does one retrieve data back from aggregate data types such as
>structures and arrays?
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Ben

-- 
Robin Becker


From bloke at ii.net  Thu Nov  7 05:54:13 2002
From: bloke at ii.net (Rob Hall)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 02:54:13 -0800
Subject: idiom for initialising variables
Message-ID: <3dc964fa$0$12989@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

I'm just wondering on the correct python idiom for initialising variables.
I see some code like this:

class myClass:
    self.a = 1
    def __init__(self):
        ...more stuff here



I also see:

class myClass
    def __init__(self):
        self.a = 1
        ...more stuff here


Which is the correct idiom?  or is there a subtle difference I am missing?


Rob




From jorgencederberg at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  7 02:02:46 2002
From: jorgencederberg at hotmail.com (=?Windows-1252?Q?J=F8rgen_Cederberg?=)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:02:46 +0100
Subject: Placing Tkinter objects in a dictionary
References: <3dc9fa87$1_4@nopics.sjc>
Message-ID: <qeoy9.7$yt.191@news.get2net.dk>

"Adonis" <deltapigz at telocity.com> wrote in message news:3dc9fa87$1_4 at nopics.sjc...
> I have a loop creating Tkinter objects (an Entry text box) all with the same
> name and placing its instance in a dictionary: i.e:
> 
> for x in range(10):
>     myEntry = Entry(frame)
>     myEntry.grid(row=x, column=0)
> 
>     someDict['%s'%x] = myEntry
> 
> now I have another function which will modify myEntry:
> 
> def someFunc(x, data):
>     someDict[str(x)].config(text=data) # here is my error; the config does
> not work;
>                                        # no error is raised.

hi

The problem is that there is no 'text' option for the Entry widget, you can see the options here: http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/x4447-options.htm 

Here is an example where I use a StringVar to update the contents of the entry.

>>> from Tkinter import *
>>> root = Tk()
>>> s = StringVar()
>>> Entry(root, textvariable=s).pack()
>>> d = {}
>>> d['test'] = s
>>> d['test'].set('Hello World')

Instead of saving the Entry in a dictionary, I save the StringVar, which is accessed with get and set methods.

Hope this helps.

/Jorgen


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Nov 11 07:06:27 2002
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:06:27 +0000
Subject: Efficient scanning of mbox files
In-Reply-To:  <16E1010E4581B049ABC51D4975CEDB88619932@UKDCX001.uk.int.atosorigin.com>
References:  <16E1010E4581B049ABC51D4975CEDB88619932@UKDCX001.uk.int.atosorigin.com>
Message-ID: <1037016388.1101.5.camel@m-franklin>

On Mon, 2002-11-11 at 11:42, Moore, Paul wrote:
> 
>     def add_group(self, id, file):
>         print "Opening file", file, "for group", id
>         fp = open(file, "rb")
>         posns = []
>         oldpos = 0
>         n = 0
>         while 1:
>             line = fp.readline()
>             if not line: break
>             if FROM_RE.match(line):
>                 n += 1
>                 posns.append(oldpos)
>             oldpos = fp.tell()
>         fp.close()
>         posns.append(oldpos)
>         print "Group", id, "- articles(posns) =", n, len(posns)
>         self.groups[id] = (file, n, posns)
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Paul,


I ran the above example on my Python folder (7000+ messages...)
it took 12 seconds to process.  Then I changed the 
if FROM_RE.match(line):

to

if line.startswith("From "):


And got a 2 second speed up....  

Then I slurped the file into a cStringIO.StringIO object and got it down
to 5 seconds.....


Just some thoughts
Martin







From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  4 22:40:34 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (xinghua shi)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:40:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simple question
In-Reply-To: <20021105010502.7943.81810.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <20021105034034.20792.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>


Hey, I am new to Python world. I wrote a simple program but got error. Could someone help me fix this? Thanks.
import sys,os,string
pid = os.getpid()
filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid)
print filename
       ^^^^^^^^^^Name error: name "filename" is not defined.
Do I really need to define "filename" before use it? I tried char *filename but still didn't work. Thanks for the help.
 
 
 



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From ubecher at gmx.de  Wed Nov 13 14:09:11 2002
From: ubecher at gmx.de (Uwe Becher)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:09:11 +0100
Subject: Local drives on Win32 with win32api
Message-ID: <3DD2A357.4000308@gmx.de>

Hi.

I'm trying to get information about local drives on a win32 box. Using 
win32api.GetLogicalDriveStrings() and win32api.GetDiskFreeSpace(drive) 
works nearly perfect - except: I get all the network drives mapped to a 
drive letter too!

Is there a way to get information, if a drive is local or remote?
May be I missed the point reading the documentation.

Uwe



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 25 14:57:42 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:57:42 -0500
Subject: Strange's exception :-)
References: <3DE2453B.9030002@libero.it>
Message-ID: <c--cnRnma86vHH-gXTWc3g@comcast.com>

> IOError: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer

This is pretty common with telnet sessions kept open long enough and
occasional with long file downloads.  Happened to me just last night
with Yahoo.

> What can I do to manage this exception?

Basicly, try again later.




From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Nov 15 15:24:21 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:24:21 -0600
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <15829.21594.896779.746111@montanaro.dyndns.org> (Skip
 Montanaro's message of "Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:08:58 -0600")
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
	<4STA9.9987$744.345722@news1.tin.it>
	<jc58tugirbnbtn1i7e2kf7of4l3ltt665e@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1037315122.20415.python-list@python.org>
	<3DD44152.69795B9F@alcyone.com>
	<mailman.1037334449.14338.python-list@python.org>
	<t3iatu891qt9n74hfld92cnqgmmgg02jdv@4ax.com>
	<15829.21594.896779.746111@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <m2adkawphm.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

    Skip> I don't use any of those fancy-schmancy IDEs, though I do
    Skip> use python-mode, which has F1 bound to call help() on the
    Skip> dotted attribute expression under the cursor.

Hey ...  emacs IS fancy-schmancy!

What is the python-mode function that you bind F1 to?  That sounds
useful.

John Hunter





From whisper at oz.net  Sun Nov 17 03:06:51 2002
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:06:51 -0800
Subject: Windows Nt directory names
In-Reply-To: <20021117073039.31348.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEKEIJGBAA.whisper@oz.net>

CMD=r'"c:\program files\action.exe"'

Note the double quotes inside the single quotes. What you are doing is
passing a quoted string to the OS and that's legal (and required as you have
found out when there are spaces in the path) :)

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA
  -----Original Message-----
  From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On
Behalf Of asdfasd asdfasdf
  Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 23:31
  To: python-list at python.org
  Subject: Windows Nt directory names


  hi

  i wanted to execute a command somewhere in "program files" directory but
can't seem to do it as it says : "c:\program" is not recognized as an
internal command

  i have used :

  import os

  CMD = r'c:\program files\action.exe'

  os.system(CMD)

  how do i code so that the space in "program files" is recognized?

  thanks







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From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Mon Nov  4 10:38:29 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:38:29 -0000 
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDA99@intrepid>

> From:	aahz at pythoncraft.com [SMTP:aahz at pythoncraft.com]
> In article <mailman.1036403645.19096.python-list at python.org>,
> Simon Brunning  <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> wrote:
> >> From:	aahz at pythoncraft.com [SMTP:aahz at pythoncraft.com]
> >>>
> >>>3) Ask her for a date
> >> 
> >> <chuckle>  She lives in Toronto (I'm in California) and I'm not her
> type.
> > 
> >Yeah, but asking her out would put her on the back foot, and you can win
> the
> >Java vs. Python argument for once and for all.
> 
> Um....  How do you think I know I'm not her type?  What does "back foot"
> mean, anyway?
 
Funny - I often know that I'm not a woman's type without having to ask -
it's usually bleedin' obvious. ;-)

The 'back foot' thing - sorry, it's an idiom in use in cricket playing
nations only. I should have thought about my audience a little more. If
someone is on the back foot, they are uncomfortable and on the defensive.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Nov  6 14:06:52 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:06:52 -0800
Subject: idiom for initialising variables
In-Reply-To: <3dc964fa$0$12989@echo-01.iinet.net.au>; from bloke@ii.net on Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 02:54:13AM -0800
References: <3dc964fa$0$12989@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <20021106110652.D18006@ActiveState.com>

[Rob Hall wrote]
> I'm just wondering on the correct python idiom for initialising variables.
> I see some code like this:
> 
> class myClass:
>     self.a = 1
>     def __init__(self):
>         ...more stuff here
> 

I suspect you quoted that one incorrectly. It should be:
    class myClass:
        a = 1
        def __init__(self):
            ...more stuff here

> I also see:
> 
> class myClass
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.a = 1
>         ...more stuff here
> 
> 
> Which is the correct idiom?  or is there a subtle difference I am missing?

Either works. Which one you chose probably depends more on your
preference for aethetics than anything else. There *is* a slight
difference in when the 'a' variable gets created. With the former, you
can access 'a' on the class object. With the latter you have to create a
class instance (i.e. the __init__() method has to run) before 'a' is
available.

    >>> class TopLevel:
    ...     a = 1
    ...     def __init__(self):
    ...             pass
    ...
    >>> class InInit:
    ...     def __init__(self):
    ...             self.a = 1
    ...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> t = TopLevel()
    >>> t.a
    1
    >>> i = InInit()
    >>> i.a
    1
    >>>
    >>> TopLevel.a
    1
    >>> InInit.a
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    AttributeError: class InInit has no attribute 'a'
    >>>


Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From derek at wedgetail.com  Sat Nov  2 09:08:01 2002
From: derek at wedgetail.com (Derek Thomson)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 00:08:01 +1000
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3dc3dc4e$0$12762$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

Aahz wrote:
 > She asked me what -- if any -- Java-based tools were used by
> the experienced Java programmers who made that claim.  She thinks that
> those tools are superior to plain text editors (which are really all
> that's needed for Python).

Eclipse ... for about one day. Far too painful, so it was back to Emacs. 
Really, I've yet to see any IDE that I liked, or did anything but limit 
my productivity. They have the same problems all GUI's have - you can 
only do what the designers *thought* you might want to do. And when 
coding, that's a serious limitation. I use Emacs, because it's basically 
just a Lisp interpreter with some built-in functions for text editing. I 
can therefore program it do do *anything*.

[And sometimes I have to use Visual Studio when porting. I can't 
understand how anyone puts up with it. Aside from being unusable, it's 
full of bugs]

As for refactoring, Python's advantage here are it's dynamic typing, and 
run-time flexibility. Try altering a Java application on the fly. It 
can't be done. In Python you can, for example, muck about with a GUI as 
it's running, to see what works and what doesn't. This is *great*.

Then there's the fact that it takes between 5-10 lines of Java to do the 
same thing in Python, depending on what you're doing. Having a very high 
level language, as opposed to a high level one, definitely helps 
refactoring in that there's much less code to refactor. Look at the size 
of Fnorb (*), compared to Java ORBs. Or just look at the size of the 
Fnorb IDL compiler ... and it's even readable. I know which I'd like to 
be refactoring.

(*) http://fnorb.org

As for the "tools" refactoring IDEs provide, I can get more powerful 
results with the Perl "-i" option, which lets you modify files in-place. 
  I could rename a method to anything I pleased, consistently, just to 
name a trivial example. But since I'm using a *language* to specify my 
changes, I can do literally anything. You can't do that in an IDE, 
unless the IDE authors create a Turing-complete language to specify 
changes with.

(Yes, I know people are going to say I should use Python, but Perl's 
honestly better for pattern matching and substitution from the command 
line, mainly because regexes are always immediately available and for 
all the neat command line switches. Like "-i" itself ...)

--
D.



From quadric at primenet.com  Mon Nov 18 14:14:42 2002
From: quadric at primenet.com (quadric at primenet.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:14:42 -0700
Subject: Fast construction of Python list from large C array of int's 
  -  Extension Module
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021118111217.019a74d0@pop3.norton.antivirus>

Hi,

I'm a bit of a Python newbie and I've written a C extension module. One 
of  the functions must return a Python list whose source is a large (5000 - 
6000) C array of integers.  I need a fast way
of constructing the Python list.  I was planning on something like:

PyObject * CreateListFromArray( int * array , int array_length)
{
	PyObject * list = PyList_New( array_length);

	for int i = 0 ; i < array_length ; i++ )
  	{
	    PyList_SetItem( list , i , Py_LongFromLong( (long) array[i] )  );
	}

  return list;
}


Is this the fastest way to do this?

Any inherent dangers here?

Any issues with memory shortage etc... in Python interpreter. In other 
words should I do thusly:

	PyObject * list = PyList_New( array_length);

	if (list != NULL)
	{
    	    for int i = 0 ; i < array_length ; i++ )
  	    {
	        PyList_SetItem( list , i , Py_LongFromLong( (long) array[i] )  );
	    }
	}


Thanks for your help.


quadric at primenet.com







From scheff at bigfoot.de  Tue Nov  5 06:22:06 2002
From: scheff at bigfoot.de (Tim Scheffler)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 03:22:06 -0800
Subject: GUI with blocking database access
Message-ID: <5ec37a54.0211050322.e663b54@posting.google.com>

Dear all,

I would like to construct a GUI to access an external database.
Unfortunately I have to use a (non-opensource) python dll (WIN32)
module provided by the database to write/read from/to it. If I/O is
done via this module all execution is stopped if I try to run it in a
separate thread in the GUI.

Does somebody have an idea how to construct a GUI, that can trigger
such an I/O module? I thought about to run two separate processes on
WIN-NT one that provides the GUI and one that runs the I/O and let
them communicate through a pipe or something like that. But here I
dont know how to start two processes from one python script as fork()
wont work on WIN-NT.

Any help is deeply appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation

Tim


From bvdpoel at kootenay.com  Fri Nov  8 11:50:43 2002
From: bvdpoel at kootenay.com (Bob van der Poel)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:50:43 -0700
Subject: Optik long help strings
References: <3DC9CDAD.91A42BDB@kootenay.com> <B9F0702A.2B601%goodger@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DCBEB63.794C000C@kootenay.com>

David Goodger wrote:
> 
> Bob van der Poel wrote:
> > I'm trying to use the Optik package for parsing command line options.
> > However, I'm running into a problem overriding its line warping
> > routines. I'd like the help to print something like:
> >
> > options:
> >  -p, --pattern   Set pattern
> >   'xx'  use the xx pattern
> >   'yy'  use the yy pattern
> >   ... more list of pattern options
> >
> > Seems that optik thinks it knows better where the new lines should go.
> > Suggestions?
> 
> It's not really clear what you intend.  Either you're using hard tabs or
> single spaces for indents; in any case, it's very subtle here.

Sorry. Was using real tabs. Dumb me.

  options:
    -p, --pattern   Set pattern
          'xx'  use the xx pattern
          'yy'  use the yy pattern
          ... more list of pattern options

Hopefully this doesn't get munged.

> Optik isn't currently set up to handle complex option descriptions (where
> complex means anything other than a single flexible paragraph).  I suggest
> you post to <optik-users at lists.sf.net>.  If this feature is really
> important to you, delve into the code and submit a patch.

I didn't know there was a optik list. Guess I'll have to subscribe.

Thanks.


-- 
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bvdpoel at kootenay.com
WWW:   http://www.kootenay.com/~bvdpoel


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 12 07:47:57 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 12:47:57 GMT
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <bdb5b58f.0211111438.640885d2@posting.google.com> <aqpc4j$cl5$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <6q7kfjau4f.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <Xns92C47A3ACD484duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <aqqt9t$vu2$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:09:56 +0000 (UTC), Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote:

>Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> wrote in 
>news:6q7kfjau4f.fsf at salmakis.intevation.de:
>> 
>> python -c "a = b = 1L; exec('while 1: print a; a,b=b,a+b')"
>> 
>> It would be nice to get rid of that exec, too...
>
>You could get rid of the unnecessary parentheses after the exec. And as for 
>the whitespace, are you trying to make it readable or something?:
>
>  python -c "a=b=1;exec'while+1:print+a;a,b=b,a+b'"
>
>Who ever said Python programs need whitespace!

I didn't know exec would parse semicolons that way (I hardly ever use it). But
is that new with 2.2? Does that mean it effectively assumes a semicolon is the
same as a newline and indent to the same level as the previous statement, until
it finds an actual newline?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 11 22:34:09 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:34:09 -0800
Subject: newbie Q: shortcuts for long module names?
References: <Vs_z9.47492$Lg2.13559342@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3DD076B1.B0A5CA12@alcyone.com>

Robert Oschler wrote:

> Let's say I import a module with a long name:
> 
> import com.long.module.name
> 
> Now every time I access a function in com.long.module.name I have to
> prepend
> "com.long.module.name" to the member function.  Is there generally
> accepted
> and safe way to "alias" the module name or bring it into the local
> namespace
> so I can either omit or alias the module name with something much
> shorter?

Try

	import this.is.a.long.module.name as name

or

	import this.is.a.long.module.name as somethingElse

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ There are defeats more triumphant than victories.
\__/ Montaigne
    Polly Wanna Cracka? / http://www.pollywannacracka.com/
 The Internet resource for interracial relationships.


From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Nov 15 03:11:08 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:11:08 -0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C5C92001CEEdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1ilqic9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns92C75350E4A4dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) wrote in 
news:m3u1ilqic9.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de:

> DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> 
>> > However, it is not clear to what the value would be of completing 
the
>> > circle, given that the XML is of no use.
>> 
>> Martin, your prejudice is showing; very badly :-)
> 
> That might be the case. However, as a question, I meant it seriously:
> What do I gain from converting the Python documentation to XML?

In an earlier mail you mentioned the toolset for XML.
Saves a lot of work.


> Longer-term, I have been considering that using XML might help
> translating the Python documentation to French and German, but I'm
> certain that nobody else has that usage in mind. So I'm wondering what
> other people expect from this, apart from buzzword compliance.

<grin/> OK, the last bit rings true. 
Docbook has a significant multi-lingual element for boiler plate,
the techniques are re-usable though. Norm Walsh did a talk on it
at a conference I hosted in 2001 if you are interested.

Regards DaveP.


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 20 07:03:10 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:03:10 +0000
Subject: Deep XML modification..
References: <3ddb6d4f$0$18869$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <3DDB79FE.8D1CDC41@hotmail.com>

nobody wrote:

> Whats the best way to modify deep branches of XML?  The tree is eight
> levels deep, so I have a forrest of cloneNode and replaceChild, to
> propogate changes from the leaves back to the root Document.  

Hmm, why would you want to "propagate changes back to the root"? You
give the impression that you want to change some nodes 8 levels down.
That shouldn't necessitate any changes to the root.

> There has got to be a
> better way?  I also want to avoid pre-sorting the data into a list,
> and keep it entirely XML if possible.

Methinks you have some application specific requirements that you're not
sharing with us. Why would want to transfer the data into a list? Is the
data sorted in some way?

Perhaps it would better if you either

A: Told us the nature of your data and the constraints you have placed
on it?
B: Posted one of your XML document structures, with perhaps before and
after examples to tell us what you're trying to achieve. 

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From carlca at dircon.co.uk  Wed Nov 13 17:48:23 2002
From: carlca at dircon.co.uk (Carl Caulkett)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:48:23 +0000
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <aqt734$r6j$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <mtk5tu0llkfais6vnmqennuolcg3mtd7be@4ax.com>

On 13 Nov 2002 09:47:16 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

Hi Bengt,

---8<---

>Your mention of Delphi made me recall that you can right click on a gui form
>and select 'view as text' from the popup menu, and you get to see all the
>parameters that define your layout. E.g. a default form with one button dropped
>on it near the top left:
>
>object Form1: TForm1
>  Left = 200
>  Top = 108
>  Width = 544

---8<---

Hmmm. It occurs to me that the items that appears in a Delphi form
(including events) are published properties of the visual controls on
that form. This means that they can be traversed using RTTI (Run Time
Type Information) and could be used to dynamically build a Python/wx
script. As you mention elsewhere, Delphi supports the use of Anchors
which, along with Constraints and the Align property, should provide
the kind of resiable forms that decent thinking people expect <g>.

My only problem is that, while I'm pretty good at the Delphi side of
things, my wx knowledge is limited at the moment. It would be a good
incentive to improve, though. I think I feel a little project coming
on ...

-- 
Carl


From achim.domma at syynx.de  Thu Nov 14 10:50:45 2002
From: achim.domma at syynx.de (Achim Domma)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:50:45 +0100
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ar0gn7$k5$06$1@news.t-online.com>

"M" <marvelan at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d at posting.google.com...
> Just a few examples...
> The new enumerate or zip function. If you look at the code using this
function
> it is not at all obvious what the code does. Let say a programmer that
knows
> 10 other languages looks at this code. I don't think he would right away
> understand what this function does. This construct is not obvious.
Generators
> are another thing that are just horrible. They just don't work in a way
> that one would expect from previous experience.
[...]
> I hope this is not a start of adding powerfull and hard to understand
> features to Python.

As mentioned in other threads one should learn python if one would like to
develop in python. I think you should make a difference between features
which are hard to understand and features which are usually not found in
other languages. In my opinion enumerate, zip and generators are not hard to
understand, but they might be uncommon. But they give you the power to
express concepts in their natural way. Another example is list
comprehension: If you are used to it, they are nearly plain english, but I
know people who prefer writing loops over multiple lines, only because they
are used to do it this way and don't want to learn something new.

regards,
Achim




From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Sun Nov  3 19:35:24 2002
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 00:35:24 +0000
Subject: pyqt rules
In-Reply-To: <7Dgx9.41909$Lg2.11396126@news2.news.adelphia.net>
References: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <3dc571d0$0$63818$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <7Dgx9.41909$Lg2.11396126@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <200211040035.24941.phil@river-bank.demon.co.uk>

On Sunday 03 November 2002 9:33 pm, Bob X wrote:
> "Boudewijn Rempt" <boud at valdyas.org> wrote in message
> news:3dc571d0$0$63818$e4fe514c at dreader1.news.xs4all.nl...
>
> > Not too mention buying the book -- don't try Amazon,
> > they seem to have problems delivering, but at
> > http://www.opendocs.org/pyqt :-).
> > --
> > Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org
>
> I would love to use PyQt but it seems I have to have the Qt NC version to
> make it run but I cannot find a Windows binary anywhere. I do not have VC++
> to compile the beast either.

The binary of Qt NC is at 
http://www.trolltech.com/developer/download/qt-win-noncomm.html

The binary of PyQt for Qt NC is at 
http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/download.php

Phil



From gerrit.muller at philips.com  Tue Nov  5 06:57:20 2002
From: gerrit.muller at philips.com (Gerrit Muller)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 12:57:20 +0100
Subject: pyqt rules
References: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <mailman.1036370164.21605.python-list@python.org> <2Dkx9.42039$Lg2.11444432@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1036400645.4450.python-list@python.org> <aq6gl5$k20$1@reader1.tiscali.nl> <3DC6E304.6070507@SPAMnwinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3DC7B220.BF77CADB@philips.com>

<...snip...>
> If "openness" is the controlling factor, you can run the
> GPL'd versions of Qt/PyQt on any open OS (*BSD, Linux)
> free of charge.
> 
> from: http://www.trolltech.com/developer/faqs/noncomm.html
> 
> "What is the Qt Non-Commercial Edition for Microsoft Windows?
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The Non-Commercial Edition is the Qt for Windows toolkit,
> licensed for private development of non-commercial software
> in a non-commercial setting.
> 
> A non-commercial setting means that you must not use the
> package in the course of your employment or whilst engaged
> in activities that will be compensated.
> 
> A non-commercial application is an application that cannot
> be sold, leased, rented or otherwise distributed for
> recompense.
> 
> You may freely use Qt Non-Commercial Edition for:
> 
> * Running software legally developed by others
> * Developing non-commercial software"
> 
> It doesn't look that complicated to me.
> 
> Jim

I  am creating a freely accessible website
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/index.html at home
as well as during working hours. At both places I work with Windows
(strongest dependency is the use of Visio). I maintain the site by means
of Python scripts. Taking the above license literal I might use Qt at
home for free, but not at work. Yes that is clear, but not stimulating
to dive in :-(

regards Gerrit

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerrit Muller                Philips Research Laboratories Eindhoven
Building:   WDC 2 - 007              Prof. Holstlaan 4
Phone: +31 40 27 45242               5656 AA  Eindhoven
Fax:   +31 40 27 45033               The Netherlands
mailto:gerrit.muller at philips.com
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/index.html


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Nov 22 00:35:53 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:35:53 -0600
Subject: Boost.Python sans Jam
In-Reply-To: <zqiD9.19233$We5.9390@nwrddc04.gnilink.net> (Mark's message of
 "Fri, 22 Nov 2002 04:31:27 GMT")
References: <zqiD9.19233$We5.9390@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <m23cpup3nq.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark  <Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com> writes:

    Mark> Hello all, I'd like to use the product of Boost.Python (ie
    Mark> libboost_python and the necessary header files) without
    Mark> resorting to using jam as my comilation system (why?  I want
    Mark> to learn one thing at a time ... right now I'll focus on
    Mark> Boost.Python ... when I want to learn jam, I'll look at it).

Not the answer to you question -- but, I had the same philosophy when
I first encountered bjam.  I wanted to go it along with the tools I
was familiar with.  When I was unsuccessful, I went back to bjam and
after about 15 minutes of RTFM-ing, I was successful.  So I suggest
you do it the way the library developers suggest.  it worked better
for me that way.

As a starting point, here is the beginning of my compile notes of a
(dated) python version specific build of boost::python with bjam:

# Build the libs:
cd ~/c/lib/boost_1_28_0 
bjam -sPYTHON_VERSION=2.1 clean
bjam -sPYTHON_VERSION=2.1 -d2 >& bjam.out


cd libs/python/build  
bjam -sPYTHON_VERSION=2.1

# the rest is a platform specific description of how I installed the
# libs for my platform (red hat linux)

Sorry for the OT post :-).


JDH



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov 12 19:10:58 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:10:58 -0600
Subject: Q: Name of a arbitary variable as a string?
In-Reply-To: <3DD15E18.F5A8905B@ilt.fhg.de>
References: <3DD15E18.F5A8905B@ilt.fhg.de>
Message-ID: <20021112181057.A2000@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 09:01:28PM +0100, username wrote:
> I am searching for a function (call it: var_name) that do something like
> this: 
> 
> >>> V="Hello World"
> >>> var_name(V)
> 'V'

Here's a very nasty little piece of work which makes a few assumptions
about the kindly nature of the caller and the structure of Python
bytecodes.

I recommed that you not use this code.  You should probably find another
way to do whatever it is you're trying to do.  For instance, you could
replace
    var_name(V)
with
    "V"

BTW, this code is broken at least for LOAD_DEREF and probably for
LOAD_NAME.  

# IF YOU USE THIS CODE YOU WILL DIE
def var_name(arg):
    f = sys._getframe(1)
    c = f.f_code.co_code
    ip = f.f_lasti
    i = ord(c[ip-3])
    o = ord(c[ip-2]) + 256*ord(c[ip-1])
    r = []
    while dis.opname[i] == 'LOAD_ATTR':
	r.append(f.f_code.co_names[o])
	ip=ip-3
	i = ord(c[ip-3])
	o = ord(c[ip-2]) + 256*ord(c[ip-1])
    if dis.opname[i] == 'LOAD_FAST':
	r.append(f.f_code.co_varnames[o])
    r.append(f.f_code.co_names[o])
    r.reverse()
    print r
    return ".".join(r)



From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Nov  6 22:19:02 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:19:02 -0500
Subject: power TypeErrors
In-Reply-To: <7h3adkn0yyl.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEGBCHAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Michael Hudson]
> ...
> It's a bit odd that there's no cmath.pow().

But not surprising:  a good-quality pow() is difficult to code even for
reals, and numerical analysts had nothing to do with Python's cmath.  If
"most" vendors bother to implement C99 (I'm afraid that's not a certainty),
Python can borrow its cpow() to plug this hole.  Short of that,
exp(y*log(x)) makes users responsible for their own numeric screwups.




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Mon Nov  4 13:44:42 2002
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 18:44:42 GMT
Subject: Tkinter problem
References: <369fc45d.0211031751.7ad1276@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aq6f6q$7tu$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

Hi.
If you go to
http://www.manning.com/getpage.html?project=grayson&filename=Source.html you
can download the example code from John E. Grayson's "Python and Tkinter
Programming". In the examples for chapter 8, you will find code for making
"about..." boxes using Pmw or "Python MegaWidgets"
(http://pmw.sourceforge.net/).  Pmw provides a ready-made AboutDialog class,
so, if you're not required to roll your own, you can just use theirs.
Hope this was helpful,
Sean Ross









From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Nov 23 21:32:32 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 20:32:32 -0600
Subject: Repost: Tkinter Checkbox Question
In-Reply-To: <b4d1dd0c.0211231818.577e0929@posting.google.com>
References: <b4d1dd0c.0211231818.577e0929@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021123203221.A1515@unpythonic.net>

On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 06:18:27PM -0800, Josiah wrote:
> What am I doing wrong in this sample? When I press the "status"
> button, the printout shows that "self.var.get()" returns a "0" weather
> the box is checked or not! Is this a Bug in Tkinter? Help please.
> Thanks!
> josiah

It looks fine to me.

If you have created more than one Tk(), then the IntVar may be in a
different interpreter than the checkbutton (for instance, by adding the
following two lines above 'root = Tk()'
    not_root = Tk()
    not_root.wm_withdraw()
I can get the behavior your describe)

You can make sure your variable is in the right interpreter by using
<         self.var = IntVar(master) 
just as you do for widgets.  That change makes your script work whether or
not 'non_root' was created at startup.

Jeff



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Thu Nov 14 22:45:52 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:45:52 -0800
Subject: lists changed to tuples unexpectedly!
References: <c3835e5f.0211140644.18590798@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <hlq1ra.hk3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Chris Fonnesbeck fed this fish to the penguins on Thursday 14 November 
2002 06:44 am:

        <snip>

> 
> Why did I make lists, and get tuples?
>
        Those aren't tuples... Tuples display with (...).

        They /are/, however, a list containing lists of lists...

        What you *initially* made (actions) is a LIST of TUPLES:

>>> actions = [(((i,0),),((j,j),)) for i in (0,1,2,3,4) for j in
... (0.0,0.1,0.2)]
>>> import pprint
>>> pprint.pprint(actions)
[(((0, 0),), ((0.0, 0.0),)),
 (((0, 0),), ((0.10000000000000001, 0.10000000000000001),)),
 (((0, 0),), ((0.20000000000000001, 0.20000000000000001),)),
 (((1, 0),), ((0.0, 0.0),)),
 (((1, 0),), ((0.10000000000000001, 0.10000000000000001),)),
 (((1, 0),), ((0.20000000000000001, 0.20000000000000001),)),
 (((2, 0),), ((0.0, 0.0),)),
 (((2, 0),), ((0.10000000000000001, 0.10000000000000001),)),
 (((2, 0),), ((0.20000000000000001, 0.20000000000000001),)),
 (((3, 0),), ((0.0, 0.0),)),
 (((3, 0),), ((0.10000000000000001, 0.10000000000000001),)),
 (((3, 0),), ((0.20000000000000001, 0.20000000000000001),)),
 (((4, 0),), ((0.0, 0.0),)),
 (((4, 0),), ((0.10000000000000001, 0.10000000000000001),)),
 (((4, 0),), ((0.20000000000000001, 0.20000000000000001),))]
>>> a = actions[0]
>>> a
(((0, 0),), ((0.0, 0.0),))

        We'd have to see the full definition of your QOptimizer class, AND the 
invocation, to make any guess as to what happened inside it.



-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Wed Nov 20 14:34:03 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:34:03 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBB8BD.6020806@web.de> <h3intucpgk2dg6vhul96pg5epcfva8o8ll@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3DDBE406.6030803@nyc.rr.com>


Courageous wrote:
>>Common Lisp is not designed for newbies but for experts.
> 
> 
> This little oft-repeated meme is exactly what has consigned
> Common Lisp to the dust bin of programming history.
> 

It's not in the dust bin, there are four (or more?) commercial vendors 
and several free. It's just not widely used.

But when I look at why Java and Perl and Python and Ruby are so 
well-received, I get the feeling evolution is headed for where CL 
already is. Time will tell.

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Nov 18 16:02:54 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:02:54 -0800
Subject: redirecting cgi error to browser
In-Reply-To: <arbjcj$gv7nj$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <003401c28f45$dd2ec360$21795418@dell1700>

Barghest wrote:

> import Pyana
> def formatRef():
>     return "Hello <b> %s </b>" % 'foo'
> ...
> Pyana.installGlobalExtension( 'pyNS', formatRef, 'formatRef' )
> data = Pyana.transform2String( source = readData( "fichier.xml" ),
style =
> readData( "test3.xsl" ) )

> => Hello &lt;b&gt; foo &lt;/b&gt;

> Just a simple question.
> Why all my tags returned from my functions are always converted to
> entities ?? How can I obtain "Hello <b> foo </b>"  ?

Sorry for the delayed reply but I just found this post today.

The problem is that you are returning a string from your extension
function. So the XSLT processor is going its job and converting into a
safe XML string. 

What you probably want to return is a result tree fragment.
Unfortunately, Pyana does not currently support extension functions
returning result tree fragments.

In the example that you gave, you could modify your XSL and extension
function to get the results that you expect:


test3.xsl
---------

...
Hello
<b><xsl:value-of select="formatRef()"/></b>
...

test.py
-------

...
def formatRef():
    return 'foo'
...

Of course, you may not be able to do what you want to do in a
non-trivial example. 

If this is really hurting your development, let me know and I might be
able to help you devise a work-around.

Cheers,
Brian





From fellowsd at cs.man.ac.uk  Fri Nov 15 06:52:11 2002
From: fellowsd at cs.man.ac.uk (Donal K. Fellows)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 03:52:11 -0800
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DD12795.23E2F02F@man.ac.uk> <3DD1770F.4FEAB063@earthlink.net> <3DD27F67.AA0247FA@man.ac.uk> <3DD2A0A2.CB933D95@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <74aa6858.0211150352.8418b96@posting.google.com>

Benjamin Goldberg <goldbb2 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Donal K. Fellows wrote:
>> OK, what sequence of bytecodes would instantiate and invoke those
>> layers?  The expositions I've found online so far have been rather
too
>> dry for me to actually see how such a thing could be done.
> 
> Umm, err, I don't know... I've merely looked (briefly) at the docs and
> source of Parrot, and never programmed for it.  But <handwave>I'm sure
> that it *can* be done</handwave>.

I'm *fairly* sure it can be done.  I was just trying to evaluate
whether it could be done with a reasonably small input of effort or
whether it was going to be a really big porting job.  (Everything I've
seen so far makes me think that it will be enough effort that I'll
leave it to someone with a commercial interest in having things work
together.)

>> Donal (fed up of hand-waving, particularly in his day job.  Must
write
>> code...)
> 
> Sorry about the handwaving, but it's the best I can offer.  If it can't
> be done now, someone will add it in the future.

It's just that given the size of the semantic disconnect between Tcl
and Parrot, it's pretty clear to me that there's going to be great
amounts of C code (or some other language, I suppose) involved in
building a bridge between the two.  Hence my intense interest in
seeing how this might be done, and my irritation at someone saying
"oh, it must be possible".  And I was feeling frustrated at cow-orkers
that day too...  ;^)

Donal (posting through Google due to sucky local news-server.)
-- 
[This space unintentionally left blank.]


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Nov 11 07:46:04 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:46:04 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <lzfzua3cwc.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqlfh1$c7d$1@news.hccnet.nl> <lzisz5sehs.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqm0qt$4v3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <lzel9spg3p.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
Message-ID: <aqo99d$ofb$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:15:22 +0100, "Johannes Gr?dem"
<johs+n at ifi.uio.no> wrote:

>* anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor):
>
>> Maybe it's better to take a shortcut and to directly say what I
>> *think* I was implying: The perceived difficulty of the parens (and
>> it doesn't matter at all if this difficulty is real or imagined)
>> increased Lisp's popularity in the early days because at that time
>> it was thought that a programming language worth its wits had to be
>> difficult to read.
>
>So you're saying that people use Lisp because they're elitists?  I
>fail to see how that is not trolling.

There's a subtle difference, since this thread is about popularity
one has to accommodate for the fact that popularity can result from
factors that have little to do with factors internal to that which is
popular. For example I studied social psychology, and because of the
intellectual status that the exact sciences had (and maybe still have)
at that time a great part of my studies was taken up by studying
methodology, statistics and, yes informatics (also Lisp). Later on I
have had extensive experience with informaticians and mathematicians
and I have more or less reached a conclusion that although these
disciplines have some value, the usability of isolated sciences is
severely limited. Still some sciences are popular, highly rated, have
a lot of authority in governmental decision making, get the largest
funding, while there is really nothing to gain from single discipline
approaches. There has been some effort to create multidisciplinar
approaches in my country but as soon as they were created they fell
apart between the usual dividing lines of the existing established
faculties. So this is my take: Its a crazy ball game, some win some
loose, but none of them have any impact on the real world unless
there's some unified approach which doesn't preclude *any* opinion
from being investigated.

>
>> I would like to add at this stage that "ad hominem" attacks like
>> suggesting that I have been smoking - peculiar things maybe? - are
>> also considered to be bad form.
>
>Quite, but what is the appropriate response for an obvious troll?

There's no need for type checking! If someone tries to initiate the
troll protocol: don't comply. Even a troll might support useful
protocols and what's to be gained by initiating the troll protocol
oneself anyway?

Anton.





From dnew at san.rr.com  Mon Nov 11 15:39:50 2002
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:39:50 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DCFF6FB.40426F8E@san.rr.com> <3DD00595.B2905D8E@earthlink.net> <3DD00B63.EC604897@san.rr.com> <3DD0113D.79EC23F6@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DD01596.A3420862@san.rr.com>

> So?  Pass these in as arguments.  There's no need to recompile a
> procedure for each and every different set of arguments that might be
> passed to it.  That would defeat the point of having procedures in the
> first place.

A binding isn't a procedure. Indeed, I'm pretty sure that [eval] doesn't
cache bytecode in bindings because it's more inefficient than
regenerating the bytecodes each time. It's good style to invoke a
procedure, but hardly necessary. And indeed, putting something like
"break" or "continue" inside a procedure called by a binding doesn't
have the same effect as putting it in the binding.


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov  7 13:43:06 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 10:43:06 -0800
Subject: power TypeErrors
References: <mailman.1036639269.847.python-list@python.org> <7h3ptthzlf0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqe8t4$ffa$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <3DCAB43A.6EFA9A25@alcyone.com>

Fernando P?rez wrote:

> Well, other than the fact that not having them is pretty much a slap
> in the
> face of everybody who does scientific computing, I guess it doesn't
> matter.
> The fact that C lacks native complex numbers is one of the reasons
> many hard
> core numerical computing people still frown upon it (not the only
> one).

Note that in the interests of nitpickery, C99 does have a builtin
complex type.

> The most trivial numerical problem with _real_ numbers can generate
> complex 
> numbers in its solution (think any random polynomial root finding
> problem, or 
> just about any eigenvalue problem you can write). Therefore we *NEEED*
> good 
> complex number support in any language that is going to be taken
> seriously 
> for scientific computing. I'm not sure what your background is, but I
> can 
> tell you that python is gaining _very_ stronng support in scientific 
> computing.

That's probably the best rationalization I've seen for including complex
number support in the language itself.  Implementing a complex number
class oneself is pretty straightforward, and the vast majority of
non-scientific users will never have a need for it, but when you want to
do scientific work and the builtins don't play nice with complex
numbers, it's a huge inconvenience.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ War is like love, it always finds a way.
\__/ Bertolt Brecht
    Erik Max Francis' bookmarks / http://www.alcyone.com/max/links/
 A highly categorized list of Web links.


From leazen at uol.com.ar  Fri Nov  1 10:25:40 2002
From: leazen at uol.com.ar (Leazen)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:25:40 -0300
Subject: Wrapping a .dll under windows with SWIG
References: <8beb91f5.0210312226.7eb08c08@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DC29CF4.2060606@uol.com.ar>

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You could use calldll to make the function calls.
You can get it at http://www.nightmare.com/~rushing/dynwin/index.html.

Leazen



Ben C wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I want to wrap a .dll under windows and have access to it's functions
> etc. The problem is that all I have is the .dll and header file ... no
> source ... and as all the examples that I have seen for swig seem to
> need the original source ... I was wondering if it is still possible
> to get access to the functions stored in the dll? Would anyone be able
> to point me in the write direction, docs examples etc if this can be
> done at all?
>
> thanks in advance
>
> Ben C
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From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov  5 14:59:45 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:59:45 -0600
Subject: sre_constants.error: bogus escape
In-Reply-To: <3DC81B1F.C367AB25@crary.com>
References: <3DC81B1F.C367AB25@crary.com>
Message-ID: <20021105195926.GC21221@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 01:25:19PM -0600, Bradley D. Larson wrote:
> What is the best method of changing a \ character to something else
> 
> I'm trying to use re....
> 
>         pat = re.compile('\\');  ts = pat.sub(':',ts)
> 
> which produces....
> 
>   File "C:\PYTHON21\Lib\sre.py", line 90, in compile
>     return _compile(pattern, flags)
>   File "C:\PYTHON21\Lib\sre.py", line 136, in _compile
>     raise error, v # invalid expression
> sre_constants.error: bogus escape
> 
> 

It is bogus.  If you want to match a literal backslash, the regular
expression '\\\\', also writable as r'\\' is what you're looking for.
'\\' (a 1-character string containing a single backslash) is not a valid
regular expression, much as '%' (a 1-character string containing a single
percent sign) is not a valid format string (i.e., don't try to do "%" %
(...))

Jeff



From eugene1977 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 26 01:37:56 2002
From: eugene1977 at hotmail.com (eugene kim)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:37:56 +0000
Subject: variable name and type confusion...
Message-ID: <arufnn$nt8$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

after table_name = Graph(table),
graphs.append(table_name) appends string type not Graph type

if i do exec "table_name = Graph(table)"
graphs.append(table_name) appends Graph type..

is this expected behavior?
i'm using python 2.2.1

table_list = ['abc', 'def']
tables['abc'] = Table(a)
tables['def'] = Table(b)

graphs = []
def tests(Graph):
    for table_name in table_list:
        table = tables[table_name]
        table_name = Graph(table) <--------------here
        graphs.append(table_name)


From gmduncan at netspace.net.au  Thu Nov 21 03:34:19 2002
From: gmduncan at netspace.net.au (Gary Duncan)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:34:19 +1100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDC9A8B.8050801@netspace.net.au>

David Mertz, Ph.D. wrote:
> Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote previously:
> |Try two or three months [to learn Common Lisp], at worst.  A competent
> |and experienced programmer can probably learn a language like Common
> |Lisp in a couple weeks in their spare time.
> 
> There's a strange phenomenon with programmers, especially (but not
> exclusively) ones who are attached to one or a couple favorite
> langauges.  They claim--rather persistently--that someone/anyone can
> learn their language in an absurdly short time period.
> 
> Sometimes it is "a few hours to pick up the basics of Python;" other
> times "a couple weeks to master CL;" or occasionally "a few months to
> become an expert in X."  All these claims are quite literally
> unbelievable... and yet they come up over and over from every advocate.
> 
> The funny thing about all the claims is that they are enthymatic
> contrasts with all "those other languages."  The writers apparently
> expect readers to have a realistic sense about how long it takes to
> learn most programming languages (months or years), so the silly claim
> about <favorite-language> is then drawn as such a strong contrast with
> that.  But as soon as anyone explicitly STATES the claim that
> <non-favorite-language> actually takes -many- months to learn, the
> optimistic "days" for <favorite-language> appears as an absurdity rather
> than a language advantage.
> 
> It's a funny structure... sort of like what ordinary language
> philosophers (Grice or Dummett, I think) call "essentially accidental"
> events.  But this is "essentially implicit."
> 
> Yours, David...
> 
> P.S. I'm a pretty smart guy, btw.  From kindergarten through doctorate,
> I always learned things faster than just about everyone around me.  I
> remember more than almost anyone I know.  Everywhere I've worked as a
> programmer, I've been pretty much the best one at the site.

Hmm, David - if I can interject a joke, at your expense :-

"I'm not conceited although I have reason to be" :)
[ Btw, I thought that only insecure Germans appended Ph D to their name :)

Well I'm a modest person ("have a lot to be modest about" :)
but after 15 yrs + of real-time C-programming  (from about the time, mid-70s
that Timbot wrestled with Crays and f/p) I thought I knew it well. Then I
picked up some specialized ref books (Jaeschke: "Solutions in C",
"Portability and the C-language" ) and realised how superficial my
understanding of the language and its surrounding environment was.

<JOKE>
Some previous work colleagues have said (enviously/spitefully) about my
C-knowledge:-
         "You know fuck-NOTHING", to which my reply was :-
         "Yeah; but I know fuck-ALL!".
</JOKE>



- Gary (who just fondled a real 10ft Python at the Bairnsdale Vic Australia show;
          - forgot to get its Version number :)

P.S. Browsing c.l.p is like spending quiet time in the British Museum.
      So civilized. (Most Trans-Atlantic readers will not comprehend ...)



> 
> And you know what:  I CANNOT learn CL in a couple weeks of my spare
> time.  I've spent more than that, and understand little about it,
> really.  When I first learned Python, it took me much longer than a few
> hours to pick up even the barest essentials.  And when I have programmed
> with languages fulltime for several years, I continued to learn new
> things about them after those years.
> 
> --
>     _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
>    _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
>   _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
>  _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/
> 
> 



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sat Nov 23 12:43:23 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 17:43:23 +0000
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <yfsbs4grxl0.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:

> If there's one thing that makes Python a bad choice for me, that's it.
> During development, static type systems save me a lot of trouble.

Have you tried pychecker? I'm not sure what sort of troubles static type
systems save you from, but at least for the relatively trivial but common
cases like typos, pychecker seems to do quite a good job.

On the whole, I think compulsory static typing is a bad idea. It invariably
seems to lead to spurious warnings and unnecessary code (partly because
typecheckers are usually quite daft and complain about correct code and partly
because it causes less flexible code) and longer development times. 

It would seem to me that most or all of the benfits of static typing can be
obtained from tools.

alex


From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Tue Nov 12 06:09:23 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 11:09:23 GMT
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk at 216.168.3.44>, DaveP wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote in
> 
>> Of course I agree that the standard Docbook DTD wouldn't be sufficient
>> and would need to be extended.
>> 
> 
> Could you be more specific on this please?
> Docbook's purpose is to document  software, so if you've
> found a shortfall, I'm sure the docbook group would be interested in
> filling any such gaps?

As far as I understand, it is quite normal to extend Docbook to meet specific
needs. It's specifically designed to be easily extensible.

> What sort of extensions?

See MvL's message in this thread:

http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=m3bs5fbi7l.fsf%40mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de

or, shorter URL:

http://tinyurl.com/2mhm

many of these aren't supported by the Docbook DTD, yet. \seerfc, for example.
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From theller at python.net  Fri Nov 15 09:22:25 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 15:22:25 +0100
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org> <adkbqbc4.fsf@python.net> <7h3u1ijvv9q.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <vg2zoru4.fsf@python.net> <ar2vkr$oip$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ptt6q5em.fsf@python.net>

roy at panix.com (Roy Smith) writes:

> Thomas Heller  <theller at python.net> wrote:
> > Ok, you need a core library of system calls, but then you go.
> 
> Depends on what you're trying to do.  If you're writing an application
> to run on top of an operating system, then yes, you need a library of
> system calls.  But, even at that, most system call libraries are a
> very thin layer which do little more than put arguments on the stack
> in the right format and execute some flavor of trap instruction.
> 
> But, there are plenty of things you might want to do with C which do
> not involve any sort of system call library at all.  You might be
> writing an embedded system which runs directly on top of the hardware.
> Or, you might be writing an operating system itself, or a device
> driver.  It's a pity that most people don't ever get to do either of
> those.  You miss out on some good experiences by never getting to
> touch the hardware directly.

Hehe. Absolutely correct!  If the hardware supports memory-mapped I/O,
nothing is needed except C itself.

Thomas


From josiah7 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 19 19:29:20 2002
From: josiah7 at hotmail.com (Josiah)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 16:29:20 -0800
Subject: Updating A Tkinter Window every 100 ms?
Message-ID: <b4d1dd0c.0211191629.3454e274@posting.google.com>

I would like to create the TK dialog with a "Update" function that
will run every 100 ms. A self calling function. Inside this fuction, I
want to call "lift()" to keep the window on top of all the others, and
I want to call another function that will update other things.
 Could some look at my sample code and please give me some feedback?
Is there a better way? Why does the "lift()" function not work with
"self.master.lift()"?

Thanks for any help with this.
Josiah


##############################################################
from Tkinter import *

class App:
 def __init__(self, master):
   frame = Frame(master) 
   frame.grid()

 def Do_Stuff(self):
   pass 

 def Update(self):
   self.Do_Stuff() 
   root.lift() 
   root.after(100, self.Update)

root = Tk()
app = App(root)
app.Update()
root.mainloop()
###############################################################


From davecook at nowhere.net  Thu Nov 14 00:14:21 2002
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:14:21 GMT
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <slrnat6car.1b3.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net>, Gumuz wrote:

> i am using wxPython at the moment as my python gui. Coming from a nice IDE
> like Delphi it's really frustrating to get a nice layout together. I tried
> some tools. The one i liked most, because of it's simplicity was wxGlade,

Thanks!  I didn't know about wxGlade.  That's very cool that someone is
working on this.  I think XML is the way to go, and I don't like code
generators or integrated environments.  I'm currently using glade + pygtk,
but it would be nice to have access to something more crossplatform.

Dave Cook


From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 26 16:01:29 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 21:01:29 GMT
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
References: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3de3e129$0$4437$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908 at newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>, Steven Rumbalski wrote:

> In python I can write:
> 
> a, b = i, j
> 
> but the following is not legal:
> 
> a, b += i, j
> 
> Is there a reason that allowing this would be bad?

If it were allowed, what do you propose it would do?

> Why does Python forbid this?

First tell us what you think it would do were it legal.  :)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Now, I think it would
                                  at               be GOOD to buy FIVE or SIX
                               visi.com            STUDEBAKERS and CRUISE for
                                                   ARTIFICIAL FLAVORING!!


From kbass1 at nc.rr.com  Tue Nov  5 17:53:58 2002
From: kbass1 at nc.rr.com (Kevin Bass)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 22:53:58 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question: Sockets
Message-ID: <a_Xx9.45531$ku2.2717764@twister.southeast.rr.com>

I am attempting to process data within a socket. The socket establishes communications on both servers but the data does not come out the way that I want it. How do I store the retrieved data into an array or another value? If there are multiple values, how can I store this information? Thanks!


client.py
=======
import sys
from socket import *

HOST = '127.0.0.1'
PORT = 8080

var_name = 'Mousey Moo'

sockobj = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
sockobj.connect((HOST, PORT))

for line in message:
   sockobj.send(var_name)
   data = sockobj.recv(1024)
   print 'Client Received', 'data'
sockobj.close()



Server.py
========
from socket import *

HOST ='127.0.0.1'
PORT = 8080
date=""

sockobj = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
sockobj.bind((HOST, PORT))
sockobj.listen(5)

while 1:
  conn, addr = sockobj.accept()
  print 'Server Connected by', addr
  data = conn.recv(1024)
  print 'The received data is ', data
  print 'Closing conn'
  conn.close()
print 'Shutting down'
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From johnroth at ameritech.net  Mon Nov 25 10:45:55 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:45:55 -0500
Subject: Problem with paths on Win 9x
Message-ID: <uu4hdcoactl7a@news.supernews.com>

I'm trying to invoke a package, and I'm not getting very far. Nothing I
do
works.

Here's the printout from the command line that shows the problem:

C:\Python22\MyStuff\AstroPy3>civact

C:\Python22\MyStuff\AstroPy3>python fit\FileRunner.py CivilDateAT.htm
CivATOut.htm
C:\PYTHON22\PYTHON.EXE: can't open file 'fit\FileRunner.py'

C:\Python22\MyStuff\AstroPy3>python
Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> print sys.path
['', 'C:\\PYTHON22\\lib\\site-packages\\win32',
'C:\\PYTHON22\\lib\\site-package
s\\win32\\lib', 'C:\\PYTHON22\\lib\\site-packages',
'C:\\PYTHON22\\lib\\site-pac
kages\\Pythonwin', 'C:\\PYTHON22\\DLLs', 'C:\\PYTHON22\\lib',
'C:\\PYTHON22\\lib
\\lib-tk', 'C:\\PYTHON22', 'C:\\PYTHON22\\MyStuff\\AstroPy3',
'C:\\PYTHON22\\MyS
tuff\\TestTools', 'C:\\PYTHON22\\Lib\\site-packages\\fit',
'C:\\PYTHON22\\AddedS
tuff\\pycover']
>>>

The path to FileRunner.py is:

c:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\fit\fit\FileRunner.py

The OS is win98se.

The files referenced by the parameters are in the current directory, but
it
isn't getting that far.

John Roth




From dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de  Tue Nov  5 07:52:48 2002
From: dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de (Joerg Woelke)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:52:48 +0100
Subject: More about simple question
References: <mailman.1036473127.22853.python-list@python.org> <aq7sf7$ebc$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3DC7BF20.95768C4@felis.uni-freiburg.de>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:11:52 -0800 (PST), xinghua shi <csshi99 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >--0-1493159574-1036473112=:21756
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> >
> >>
> >> import sys,os,string
> >>
> >> pid = os.getpid()
> >>
> >> filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid)

Maybe you are interested in os.tempnam, os.tmpfile or
os.tmpnam?

[ snip ]

> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

HTH, J"o!

-- 
sigfault


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov  5 21:57:37 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 02:57:37 GMT
Subject: power TypeErrors
References: <200211052054.PAA05238@nealtech.net> <200211060810.28875.bhards@bigpond.net.au> <mailman.1036531994.9020.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqa0f1$jg3$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:39:44 -0500, anton wilson <anton.wilson at camotion.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>It actually causes an error from a source file, only if i use a variable 
>argument to **.
>
>so this fails:
>
>x = -1
>x ** 0.5 
>
>but 
>
>-1 ** -0.5 doesn't. 
operator precedence makes that
-(1 ** -0.5)
whereas using x is like
(-1) ** 0.5

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Nov  7 10:12:35 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 16:12:35 +0100
Subject: where could we find PMW package ?
References: <mailman.1036680791.24911.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m34ratl8gs.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

black <blackprogramming at yahoo.com> writes:

> I'm practice Tkinter these days and my book told me PMW provided
> many nicely GUI components, I checked python.org but find nothing,
> where is it ??? or it is not free ???

Anwsering the question in the subject: Use Google.

Regards,
Martin


From kemu at sdf-eu.org  Wed Nov 27 06:07:55 2002
From: kemu at sdf-eu.org (Jonas Geiregat)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:07:55 +0100
Subject: what does is ?
Message-ID: <3de4a6dd$0$86531$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

I saw something
import string
string._StringType is str
what does this specially that IS

or in 2.2.2 string._StringTypes is str



From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Nov 20 18:12:19 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:12:19 -0800
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
In-Reply-To: <utnsmqsmp20b51@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <00c201c290ea$466dc060$21795418@dell1700>

John Roth wrote:
> > I think that the conceptual problem that people have with 
> > assignment being a binding operation is that they are used 
> > to names labeling some sort of memory mailbox.
> 
> If you take the word "memory" out of there, that does describe 
> Python. I think this is a false distinction.

No it doesn't. In C or Java, when you write:

int a = 5;

you are, conceptually, saying: stick a 5 in the "a" mailbox.

In Python, when you write:

a = 5

you are, conceptually, saying: 5 is in a mailbox somewhere, make "a"
know the address of that mailbox. I wouldn't use the mailbox analogy
with Python though.

Cheers,
Brian




From karl at elemtech.com  Wed Nov 13 18:27:19 2002
From: karl at elemtech.com (Karl G. Merkley)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:27:19 -0700
Subject: python, Qt and HOOPS 3D
References: <3DD2A05D.5050007@elemtech.com> <3DD2B4C2.3060507@SPAMnwinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3DD2DFD7.8040204@elemtech.com>

HOOPS is a 3D graphics engine built on top of OpenGL.
They provide a Qt widget that is derived from QWidget
called HQWidget.  In many ways this widget is analagous
to QGL widget but with high level functions like orbit_camera().
See http://www.hoops3d.com/downloads/linux/linux.htm for the
details including a free linux version.

So, what I want to do is create a wrapper for this HQWidget
so that I can create one in python.

I've switched from swig to sip, but I'm still struggling with
figuring it out.  Any pointers would be appreciated!

	Karl
Jim wrote:
> Karl G. Merkley wrote:
> 
>> I am looking for the python bindings for the HOOPS-Qt widget.
>> Has anybody done this?  Is anyone willing to share?  If not
>> does someone have any pointers on how to go about doing this?
> 
> 
>> I've been playing around with swig but haven't had any luck making
>> it work yet.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with HOOPS-Qt at all, so this is somewhat
> speculative. There is a complete set of Python bindings
> for PyQt (http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk) using
> sip. If HOOPS-Qt depends on other Qt widgets, this would
> probably be your best starting point, as you can import
> the bindings for the rest of Qt and wouldn't have to
> redo them.
> 
> There isn't any complete documentation for doing bindings
> with sip. I'm working on some stuff to make sip bindings
> easier to do (along with docs hopefully), but it'll be
> a while before I have anything to release (if ever). If
> HOOPS-Qt isn't an extremely large set of files, you can
> use PyQt or PyKDE as examples of how to do bindings with
> sip manually.
> 
> You can get help with sip and PyQt on the PyKDE mailing
> list at:
> 
> http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde
> 
> If you're interested, email me directly and I'll try to give
> you some more info.
> 
> 
> Jim
> 



From maxmcorp at worldonline.dk  Fri Nov 29 02:52:12 2002
From: maxmcorp at worldonline.dk (Max M)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:52:12 +0100
Subject: Sending group mails from Python
Message-ID: <3%EF9.47641$HU.3271416@news010.worldonline.dk>

I am writing a small web based groupware program, and is often in the 
situation where I want to send mails out to an add hoc created group of 
user.

Ie. calendar notifications, information subscriptions etc.

Sort of an "embedded" list server.

Writing a program that sends out mail in Python is trivial, but my 
worries are that the server will be bogged down if there is problems 
with the mail server.

Does anybody have a clue/pointer as to the best approach or most common 
pittfalls for this?

I considdered using mailman, but think that it is a bit overkill. 
Especially if I want to make distribution of my app simple.


regards Max M



From dwelch91 at nospam.attbi.com  Sat Nov 23 11:37:07 2002
From: dwelch91 at nospam.attbi.com (djw)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:37:07 GMT
Subject: reliable tcp server holding multiple connections
References: <slrnatvnof.1qc.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3DDFAEB4.1040506@nospam.attbi.com>

Wojtek Walczak wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to write a skeleton of a TCP server able to hold multiple
> connections. The code is here:
>     <http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/pliki/old/tools/multi_serv.py>
> It works nice, but I'm sure, there're dozens of small, hard to see
> and to think about bugs, and I want you to help me in tracing them ;)
> Why I'm doing this? Since it's hard to find such an example in 
> c.u.py archives. In howtos and documentation you'll find nothing
> but some simple single server examples. I want to create a point of
> reference to well-written TCP server (holding multiple connections),
> but it's almost impossible without your participation :)
> 
> ps. I know about SocketServer ;)
> 

Do you know about Medusa?

http://oedipus.sourceforge.net/medusa/

/d/




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Nov 17 05:56:39 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:56:39 +0000
Subject: wrapping all class methods
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com>
 <mailman.1037385864.30209.python-list@python.org>
 <pan.2002.11.16.12.39.49.262808.1346@club-internet.fr>
 <7HAfWUAhuj19EwTr@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <ar61rk$gun$0@216.39.172.122>
 <mPaY0KAJ0r19EwQU@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <ar6jkk$17g$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <FzhQLIAnX319Ew28@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <ar6jkk$17g$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net>
writes
......
>>..... no I hadn't used that, but then I don't want a trace I want to
>>discover which tracebacks are being detected and trapped.
>
>I thought you might be able to do a silent trace and see the exceptions
>before they're "trapped". (The hook doesn't do any output or force you to.
>You choose what to do if/when you see something of interest).
>

this is probably a good way to go as it is non-invasive, but it's a new
technology for me so I'd need to wrap my decreasing neurones around it
before use.

The wrapping approach applies itself to all classes and all method
members, but in my example I see base class methods are also being
wrapped which may or may not be desired.

I suppose a global tracefunc could check at each 'call' whether the
currently entered scope is wanted and then set a local trace.

I wonder how fast this is compared to the wrapping approach.

>E.g., this is what my tracewatch does being told to watch only calls
>and returns from foo and bar, but incidentally reporting on exceptions:
>
> >>> from ut.tracewatch import TraceWatch as TW
> >>> def foo(n):
> ...     if n>4: raise StopIteration # or whatever
> ...     bar(n+1)
> ...
> >>> def bar(n):
> ...     if n>3: foo(n+1)
> ...     try:
> ...         foo(n+1)
> ...     except StopIteration:
> ...         print 'Caught stopiter with n = %s' % n
> ...
> >>> tw=TW()
> >>> tw.addwatch('foo','#f')
> >>> tw.addwatch('bar','#f')
> >>> tw.on()
> >>> foo(2)
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> File: "<stdin>"
> Line [scope] C:all, R:eturn eX:cept S:tack N:ew M:od E:quiv U:nbound
> ---- ------- -------------------------------------------------------
>    1 [foo]:             C: foo(n=2)
>    1 [bar]:             C: bar(n=3)
>    1 [foo]:             C: foo(n=4)
>    1 [bar]:             C: bar(n=5)
>    1 [foo]:             C: foo(n=6)
>    2 [foo]:             X: StopIteration()
>                         S: < bar:2 < foo:3 < bar:4 < foo:3 < ?:1
>    2 [bar]:             X: StopIteration()
>                         S: < foo:3 < bar:4 < foo:3 < ?:1
>    3 [foo]:             X: StopIteration()
>                         S: < bar:4 < foo:3 < ?:1
>    4 [bar]:             X: StopIteration()
>                         S: < foo:3 < ?:1
> Caught stopiter with n = 3
>    6 [bar]:             R: bar(...) => None
>    3 [foo]:             R: foo(...) => None
>
>Whereas if we start off with foo at 3, bar won't set the trap, so we get
>the full unwind and no returns (R:):
>
> >>> foo(3)
>    1 [foo]:             C: foo(n=3)
>    1 [bar]:             C: bar(n=4)
>    1 [foo]:             C: foo(n=5)
>    2 [foo]:             X: StopIteration()
>                         S: < bar:2 < foo:3 < ?:1
>    2 [bar]:             X: StopIteration()
>                         S: < foo:3 < ?:1
>    3 [foo]:             X: StopIteration()
>                         S: < ?:1
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<stdin>", line 3, in foo
>   File "<stdin>", line 2, in bar
>   File "<stdin>", line 2, in foo
> StopIteration
>
>Regards,
>Bengt Richter

-- 
Robin Becker


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 29 18:12:29 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 30 Nov 2002 00:12:29 +0100
Subject: Embedding Python and built-in types
References: <mailman.1038595960.26200.python-list@python.org> <m3hee0t7q5.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1038604121.13066.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3hee0vule.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Mickael Putters" <pylist at dreamingprophet.com> writes:

> Well, I was talking about the assignment operator, maybe it's not =.
> Yeah well guess I'll have to modify the source, I thought maybe there would
> be a way to do that already present in Python/C.

Ah, that's not an operator: assignment is not an expression; it is a
statement (but it is =).

Controlling assignment is even more difficult. Assignments usually
results in a dictionary operation. Intercepting all kinds of
assignment won't be easy. If you are just looking for assignments to
global variables, you might intercept the dictionary write operation.

Using non-dictionary objects to keep global variables (so that you can
intercept writes and reads) is a long-standing wish; it hasn't been
granted because there is no efficient implementation for it that
doesn't cause significant penalties if there is no interception.

Regards,
Martin


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Nov  4 09:08:41 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:08:41 -0600
Subject: Tkinter File Dialog Question
In-Reply-To: <6747bc9d.0211040501.2e8000b5@posting.google.com>
References: <6747bc9d.0211021953.4fd02462@posting.google.com> <l7px9.9$pU4.435@news.get2net.dk> <6747bc9d.0211040501.2e8000b5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021104140830.GA15752@unpythonic.net>

When the tk file dialog window is closed, the window is not actually
destroyed.  If you don't mind being a little bit dirty, you can peek in
and see what text was displayed in the 'file type' when it was
dismissed.

Of course, this doesn't work on Windows (where the dialog is native, not
constructed from Tk widgets) and the paths may change from version to
version.

If 'w' is some widget, just run
    label = w.tk.call(".__tk_filedialog.f3.menu", "cget", "-text")
    m = re.search("\(\*\.([^,]*)", label)
    extension = m.group(1)
    print extension
this worked for me.  I think that my python is using tk8.3 for Tkinter.
The OS is Linux.

Jeff



From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 00:55:40 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 05:55:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no> <artvr3$cbe$2@wheel2.two14.net> <arvomp$1vh$1@verence.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <as1mos$dkg$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Paul Wright <-$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> This is a regular question on comp.lang.python.

Yes, it does seem to cause new-to-Python programmers a fair bit of
confusion, doesn't it?  Everything is going along so nicely, then you
hit a block of code where you want to do this really very simple thing,
and all of a sudden Python is being less helpful than C.  Of course tou
find this worthy of comment: it's so unusual!

> There's another thread on this where I've posted some statistics from
> a study which found that that feature caused errors roughly once in
> every 3000 lines of code:
> <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9q171k%244lq%241%40verence.demon.co.uk>

You might want to read Hatton's description of that again - the
accurate one in chapter four, not the wooly one earlier on.  He makes
it quite clear that the statistics merely count the occurences of
patterns he considers error-prone, not actual errors per se.  Some of
the occurences may be errors, but Hatton provides fuck-all in the way
of hard data on that score.  That lack was, I think, the main reason
_Safer C_ has been stuck on a back shelf all these years... though the
fact that I've been moving away from using C so much over those years
must be a factor as well.  :-)

None of which should deter anyone who has to use C from reading _Safer
C_, for there is a great deal of merit to it.


From e_viola at libero.it  Mon Nov 25 10:43:15 2002
From: e_viola at libero.it (bart)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:43:15 GMT
Subject: Strange's exception :-)
Message-ID: <3DE2453B.9030002@libero.it>

When I run urlopen function to connect, sometimes, happen that its 
performance is stopped in this way:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "newspider.py", line 78, in ?
   File "MyParser.py", line 201, in connect
   File "MyParser.py", line 28, in urlopen
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 322, in open
     '_open', req)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 301, in _call_chain
     result = func(*args)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 790, in http_open
     return self.do_open(httplib.HTTP, req)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib2.py", line 779, in do_open
     code, msg, hdrs = h.getreply()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/httplib.py", line 1009, in getreply
     response = self._conn.getresponse()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/httplib.py", line 760, in getresponse
     response.begin()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/httplib.py", line 269, in begin
     version, status, reason = self._read_status()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/httplib.py", line 231, in _read_status
     line = self.fp.readline()
IOError: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer

What can I do to manage this exception?

Thanks...

																       - Ennio -



From mike at skew.org  Fri Nov 22 00:26:06 2002
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:26:06 -0700
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org>        <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122>        <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com> <mailman.1037931571.16100.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dddbfef_1@omega.dimensional.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> What happens if you reach into the file wrapper and grab the raw socket?

How do I do that? u.fp is as close as I seem to be able to get.

u = urllib.urlopen('http://localhost/4MBfile')
print u
print
print dir(u)
print
print u.fp
print
print dir(u.fp)
u.close()

<addinfourl at 135862508 whose fp = <open file '<socket>', mode 'rb' at
0x8191900>>

['__doc__', '__init__', '__module__', '__repr__', 'close', 'fileno', 'fp',
'geturl', 'headers', 'info', 'read', 'readline', 'readlines', 'url']

<open file '<socket>', mode 'rb' at 0x8191900>

['__class__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__',
'__init__', '__iter__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__repr__', '__setattr__',
'__str__', 'close', 'closed', 'fileno', 'flush', 'isatty', 'mode', 'name',
'read', 'readinto', 'readline', 'readlines', 'seek', 'softspace', 'tell',
'truncate', 'write', 'writelines', 'xreadlines']


> Again, what happens if you read from the socket instead of the file object
> returned by makefile()?

Maybe 2 KB/s improvement:

read 501760 bytes in 0.041s (11923 KB/s)
read 512000 bytes in 0.043s (11671 KB/s)
read 522240 bytes in 0.045s (11214 KB/s)
read 532480 bytes in 0.093s (5609 KB/s)
read 542720 bytes in 0.046s (11633 KB/s)
read 552960 bytes in 0.047s (11459 KB/s)
read 563200 bytes in 0.048s (11392 KB/s)
read 573440 bytes in 0.072s (7725 KB/s)
read 583680 bytes in 0.090s (6304 KB/s)
read 593920 bytes in 0.052s (11241 KB/s)
read 604160 bytes in 0.054s (11022 KB/s)

> Also, what happens if you break the read up in to a
> loop, reading smaller chunks?

No change.

bytes: 4343332; time: 9.064s (467 KB/s) using u.read(1024)
bytes: 4343332; time: 9.050s (468 KB/s) using u.read(2048)
bytes: 4343332; time: 9.050s (468 KB/s) using u.read(4096)

> Did you build Python with or without pymalloc?

I installed it from the FreeBSD packages collection. If pymalloc is not
normally built-in, then it's probably not in the package.

> Can you try the opposite?

I'd rather not obliterate my current installation, no.




From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 27 21:40:54 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:40:54 +1300
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <698f09f8.0211261046.582254a5@posting.google.com> <uu7ogatjhprm9b@news.supernews.com> <698f09f8.0211270155.207f81e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DE58236.1020305@something.invalid>

Jeremy Fincher wrote:

> Reduce (which I so wish was called foldl, leaving the oppurtunity open
> for a symmetric foldr)


Well, you could always call it ecuder(). :-)

--
Gerg Gniwe, Retupmoc Ecneics Tnemtraped,
Ytisrevinu fo Yrubretnac,
Hcruhctsirhc, Wen Dnalaez
gerg~\zn.ca.yrubretnac.csoc.www\\:ptth



From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Thu Nov  7 04:59:50 2002
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:59:50 +0000
Subject: Python and Tktable
In-Reply-To: <20021106205856.7de663f9.tim_sleptsov@fromru.com>
References: <20021106205856.7de663f9.tim_sleptsov@fromru.com>
Message-ID: <1036663193.1161.24.camel@m-franklin>

On Wed, 2002-11-06 at 17:58, Timofey Sleptsov wrote:
> Hello All!
> 
> I am try to use Tktable library with python, but without any result ;(
> For example, i type it:
> 
> Python 2.2 (#1, Mar 29 2002, 17:58:00) 
> [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import Tkinter
> >>> root = Tkinter.Tk()
> >>> root.tk.eval('package require Tktable')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TclError: couldn't load file "/usr/lib/Tktable2.7/Tktable.so.2.7":
> /usr/lib/Tktable2.7/Tktable.so.2.7: undefined symbol: tclStubsPtr
> >>> 
> And get error message. 
> 


class Table(Widget):
    """table widget."""
    def __init__(self, master=None, cnf={}, **kw):
        ## hack to load a dynamic.so into tk.....
        try:
            master.tk.call('package', 'require', 'Tktable')
        except TclError:
            try:
                master.tk.call('load', '', 'Tktable')
            except TclError:
                pass
        Widget.__init__(self, master, 'table', cnf, kw)


This is taken from the Tk Table/Tkinter  module (still working on it!) 
I hope to finish it later this year!


I found when google'ing a couple of TkTable.py modules perhaps you would
be happy using them...

http://tix.sourceforge.net/Tixapps/

Seems to be the most up to date....

Oh and looking at the Tktable sourceforge page it seems to be up to
version 2.8


Martin




From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 27 23:52:45 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:52:45 +1300
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1038438922.9879.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE5A11D.5090207@something.invalid>

Brian Quinlan wrote:

> Holger wrote:
> 
>>How does the introduction of 'yield' break old code?
> 
> Because someone, somewhere was almost certainly using yield as an
> identifier.


Hey, I'm that person! I used yield as a method
name in early versions of Plex.

I'm not complaining -- I was quite happy to change
it. Just offering evidence that this sort of breakage
does actually happen, and isn't just a theoretical
possibility.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 22 17:57:12 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:57:12 GMT
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <mailman.1037996971.11725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cDyD9.43308$744.1553979@news1.tin.it>

Chad Netzer wrote:
   ...
> _xMax = []
> for -whatever-:
>   -big calculation leading to a value of x-
>   _xMax.append( x )
>   _xMax = [max(xMax)]
>   xMax = _xMax[0]

perhaps a slightly better expression of the same idea might be...

_xMax = []
for -whatever-:
  -big calculation leading to a value of x-
  _xMax = [max([x]+_xMax)]
xMax = _xMax[0]


Alex




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 25 09:30:09 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:30:09 -0500
Subject: Multi Recipients With smtplib?
References: <mailman.1038231874.18339.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <NrqE9.83869$iw.18048@FE06>

"John Abel" <john.abel at pa.press.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1038231874.18339.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to send a mail, to multiple recipients, without much
> success.  A single mail address works fine, but when I add another,
> using a comma to separate the addresses, the second address fails to
> receive the mail.  Any ideas?  Here's the code I am using:
>
>         mailMessage = "From: %s \r\nTo: %s\r\n" % (self.mailFrom,
> self.mailTo)
>         mailMessage += "Subject: %s\r\n%s" % (mailSubject, mailBody)
>         try:
>             self.MailConn.sendmail( self.mailFrom, self.mailTo,
mailMessage)
>         except (smtplib.SMTPRecipientsRefused,
> smtplib.SMTPSenderRefused), ErrorMsg:
>             print "There Was A Problem Sending The Mail.  Reason: %s" %
> ErrorMsg
>
> Any help would be appreciated, as this is driving me mad!
>

Given that yout code is arranged to print an error message it's a pity you
didn't give us the benefit of its output so we knew a little more about the
erre that's occurring.

The arguments to the .sendmail() method should be:

    a string containing the sender's address
    a list of strings containing an address for each recipient, and
    an RFC822-formatted mail message

I am guessing that when you say "but when I add another, using a comma to
separate the addresses, the second address fails to receive the mail" you
are setting the self.mailTo attribute to be a comma-separated list ot
recipients? Frankly I'm not sure how you are managing to get this mail
formatted.

What you really want for multiple recipients is something like the
following:


    self.mailFrom = me at mydomain.com
    self.mailTo = ["him at hisdomain.com", "her at herdomain.com",
"it at itsdomain.net"]
    ...
    mailMessage = "From: %s \r\nTo: %s\r\n" \
                % (self.mailFrom, ", ".join(self.mailTo))
    mailMessage += "Subject: %s\r\n%s" % (mailSubject, mailBody)
        try:
            self.MailConn.sendmail( self.mailFrom, self.mailTo, mailMessage)
        except (smtplib.SMTPRecipientsRefused,
                smtplib.SMTPSenderRefused), ErrorMsg:
            print "There Was A Problem Sending The Mail.  Reason: %s" \
                    % ErrorMsg

In other words, use a comma-separated list of recipients in the message
body, but a list of email addresses as the second argument to .sendmail().

regards
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/
Previous .sig file retired to                    www.homeforoldsigs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------





From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 13:17:40 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:17:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038407739.29313.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as3284$ei6$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> IMO the desire for if-assignment in C is driven in part by a desire
> to fit more on the screen; Python code is more vertically compact so
> I don't miss that feature as much.

On the contrary, the only time the lack of (explicit) assignment in
expression has bothered me the issue was *horizontal* space.  It also
sounds as though you could be confusing a desire for concise expression
with a much sillier objective - at least it seems so entirely silly to
me that I can't really take it seriously.  Of course it's much easier
to defeat a silly, contrived argument.  :-/


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Nov 28 09:56:16 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 15:56:16 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyfy97ew0o7.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <3de62746$0$71652$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <tyfy97dzqsv.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

"Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> writes:

> "Jacek Generowicz" <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> > 
> > I still fail to see why you think colour highlighting is necessary, or
> > even useful for this. Emacs highlights matching parentheses, brackets
> > and braces for me. 
> 
> It should be noted that in a vanilla configuration Emacs only blinks
> parens as they are typed.

This does tend to be true for FSF Emacs ... for which the magic
incantation is (show-paren-mode 1). On XEmacs it happens by default.

> But thanks for mentioning this, you prompted me to go discover
> mic-paren, which is sweet.

Hmm ... not convinced about it. My initial reaction is that it flashes
up too much stuff, and therefore seems a bit annoying ... but I'll
work with it for a while and see if I get used to it.

> >I would find it hard to believe that other editors
> > do not have such capabilities. (If your editor cannot provide such a
> > feature, well, it might be time to reconsider your choice of editor.)
> 
> Sometimes my editor of choice is a printout with handwritten annotations. 

But then you will not be concerned with inserting the correct number
of parentheses to close an expression which you are typing ... at
which point indentation gives pretty much all the clues you need.

(I sometimes use "]" as a superbracket, is such situations.)

My biggest problem with reading lisp on hard copy is when a bit of
code is split on two pages ... then I get lost _very_ easily, because
I lose much of the indentation related information.


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Nov 21 12:25:09 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 19:25:09 +0200
Subject: Advice for using emacs python-mode
References: <yu99el9g2eyf.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <kuzns2bzt6.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <yu99el9g2eyf.fsf at europa.research.att.com>, Andrew Koenig
<ark at research.att.com> writes:

| problem: It appears that if I change code in foo.py, and type C-c C-c,
| that change is not necessarily reflected in the program's execution.
| I am guessing that under some circumstances, what is happening is that
| the code is not getting re-imported.

the import statement only goes out and loads the code the first time
it asked for a module, then it gets cached in sys.modules.

you can manually reload a module with the reload builtin function,
you might want to use that in your __main__ block. 

reloading gets hairy fast in more complicated setups (see eg
<URL: http://pyunit.sourceforge.net/notes/reloading.html>), but should
work with no trouble for this case.

  -- erno


From ronecker at noos.fr  Mon Nov 25 13:56:33 2002
From: ronecker at noos.fr (Pascal Ronecker)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 19:56:33 +0100
Subject: cannot import gtk
In-Reply-To: <200211241734.38215.dreed@capital.edu>
References: <pan.2002.11.24.20.59.20.170846@noos.fr> 
	<200211241734.38215.dreed@capital.edu>
Message-ID: <1038250593.848.6.camel@m37.net195-132-249.noos.fr>

Thanks !

but i'm still stuck.

For example : GtkText does not exist, neither does Text alone.

What is more, i have other problems with "from gnome.ui import GnomeApp"
and so on.Changing all the code seems a long way to me.
(it is the "eroaster" cd burning tool, a nice all-in-one)


Maybe the right solution is to "install the bindings" as you say, but i
do not have the slightest idea as to what it means...

So if you could explain a bit that last bit, ...
thx !!

Lenny


On Sun, 2002-11-24 at 23:34, Dave Reed wrote:
> On Sunday 24 November 2002 15:59, Lenny wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I've just installed a RH 8.0, and while trying to use python programs 
> from
> > my previous linuxbox, i encounter the following problems with python :
> > 
> > >    from gtk import GtkVBox
> > >ImportError: cannot import name GtkVBox
> 
> 
> The GTK prefix is removed:
> 
> try: 
> from gtk import VBox
> 
> 
> > this is just an example. I have the same errors with many widgets, but
> > also, with GDK, etc.etc...
> > 
> > I tried with python (that is python1.5), python2 and python2.2
> 
> 
> Red Hat 8.0 doesn't include python 1.5 (just python 2.2.1).
> 
> 
> > I really have gtk+- installed (/usr/include/gtk-1.2 AND gtk-2.0)
> > with (for the example above) a nice gtkvbox.h
> 
> 
> Red Hat 8.0 comes with the libraries for gtk 1.2, but only the python
> bindings for gtk 2.0. If you want to use python with gtk 1.2 you'll
> have to install those bindings yourself.
> 
> 
> > I think python does not know where to look for modules or something 
> like
> > that, but I'm new to this, and do not know what to do.
> 
> Nope, see above.
> 
> HTH,
> Dave
> 





From costanza at web.de  Sat Nov  9 19:49:33 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:49:33 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <3DCD8571.6CACEA04@alcyone.com> <ud6pe48gl.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <aqkaeq$7de$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Syver Enstad wrote:

> On another note, I think the Smalltalk method call (keyword message send)
> syntax is fabulously readable, why haven't anybody picked that up?
> Code like this is marvelously more understandable than the usual
> position based argument list that one uses in Lisp and C.
> 
> Ex: 
> 
> aCircle paintOn: aCanvas at: aPoint
> 
> Where aCircle, aCanvas and aPoint are variable names, and what is
> happening is that one is calling the method paintOn: at: where aCircle
> is self. The alternative:
> 
> aCircle.paint(aCanvas, aPoint)
> 
> is okay for this example but the smalltalk way lets you convey much
> more. Python has a kind of middle ground with its keyword messages,
> which is good but not quite as nice as Smalltalk.

In Common Lisp, you can have:

(paint circle :on canvas :at point)

Given that you have defined paint as follows:

(defun paint (&key on at)
    ...)

You can also have default values.

(defun paint (&key (on default-canvas) (at '(0 0)))
    ...)

So you can have all of the following.

(paint circle :on canvas)
(paint circle :at '(5 5))
(paint circle)

If you define circle to be a class, you can have the usual overriding of 
methods as follows:

(defmethod paint ((object circle)
                   &key (on default-canvas)
                        (at '(5 5)))
    ...)

(defmethod paint ((object rectangle)
                   &key (on default-canvas)
                        (at '(10 10))
    ...)

(paint (make-instance 'rectangle) :on my-canvas :at '(150 10))

...which is to show that you can mix positional and keyword parameters.

In the latter examples, circle and rectangle are classes defined as follows.

(defclass circle (graphical-object)
    (radius))

(defclass rectangle (graphical-object)
    (width height))

...where graphical-object is the common superclass, and radius, width 
and height are slots (instance variables).


etc., etc. ;)


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Nov  7 22:46:44 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:46:44 -0800
Subject: Newbie: needs help with ... 
In-Reply-To: <20021108032601.4438.75566.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021108032601.4438.75566.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18A08h-0004Uc-00@flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Thursday 07 November 2002 07:26 pm, python-list-request at python.org wrote:
> I'm trying to print the contents of a list.
> 
> Python displays "..." until I press enter. Why is it waiting for me to 
press enter ?
> 
> >>>?for x in l2[:5] : print x
> ...

I'm not exactly sure whether:

for x in l2[:5]: print x
    print x, x

would be legal (it's certainly bad style), so maybe the
interpreter ought to figure out that there won't be anything
more in the loop.  But what the "..." is about is the way the
interactive interpreter decides when a loop is actually
complete:

>>> if x in l2[:5]:
...        print x
...        print "x = %d" % x
...

That last "..." with no content tells the interpreter you're done
so it can actually run the loop.  (So you can't have any
blank lines when you're pasting code into the interpreter
to test it, and each loop must have a blank line as well as
a dedent). 

This is a difference between the interactive and  script
modes of operation of python.  You see the same thing with
tcsh and bash, BTW (though the prompt symbols are
different).

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From claird at lairds.com  Tue Nov  5 08:36:51 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:36:51 -0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <usffc087vtip40@corp.supernews.com> <aq8g9u$6c7$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <usfibjb72aq0d7@corp.supernews.com>

In article <aq8g9u$6c7$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>, Frodo Morris  <""> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>How cool would it be to just set up a computer with a listening parrotd 
>and DHCP client, plug it in to the Beowulf and have it automagically 
>recognised as a node and delegated tasks?
>I have been thinking quite a bit about cross-platform Beowulfing 
>recently.  My initial idea was to set up an rlogin or something on the 
>node machines, and have the Apple (that's what I call the conducting 
>machine: "Apple" because it sends Jobs away, does nothing for a while 
>then gets Jobs back :-) distribute the source code for the node service 
>and job processor, configure and build the code, then log out and use 
>the new node as normal.  This would be faster (provided the building 
>didn't fall over) as Beowulfs go, but less secure and probably harder to 
>set up.
			.
			.
			.
Work on such schemes is already underway.

Security is a *hard* problem.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Fri Nov 22 10:25:42 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:25:42 +0100
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <arli8c$kgj$1@news.netpower.no>

"Andrew Koenig" <ark at research.att.com> wrote in message
news:yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf at europa.research.att.com...
> Eric> So I told myself: wouldn't it be great if max(None, x) or
> Eric> min(None, x) always simply returned x?
>
> My first thought was that this was an excellent idea.
>
> Then I thought again.
>
> Here's the problem:  The notion that max(None, x) and min(None, x)
> should both return x is one of three desirable properties that cannot
> all be true at once.  Here are the other two:
>
>         1) Whenever x < y, min(x, y) is x and max(x, y) is y.
>
>         2) < is an order relation over all types.
>
> The desirability of (1) should be obvious.  (2) is more subtle, but
> it is necessary for it to be possible to sort a vector of heterogenously
> typed objects.
>
> Now, if max(None, x) and min(None, x) both yield x, and (1) is true,
> then x > None and x < None must both be true.  But then (2) cannot
> be true.
>

"None > x" or "x > None"doesn't really make sense:

Nothing is better than complete happiness.
A cheese sandwich is better than nothing.
Ergo, a cheese sandwich is better than complete happiness.


--
David

"I love deadlines.  I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past."
Douglas Adams




From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Nov  7 16:08:47 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:08:47 -0800
Subject: power TypeErrors 
In-Reply-To: <20021107192126.26346.92569.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021107192126.26346.92569.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E189tvc-0000AQ-00@avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Thursday 07 November 2002 11:21 am, python-list-request at python.org wrote:
> Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:
> >?Michael Hudson wrote:
MH> For all my mathematical leanings, I still don't really see the point
MH> of having complex numbers native to a language.

FP>?Well, other than the fact that not having them is pretty
FP> much a slap in the face of everybody who does scientific
FP> computing, I guess it doesn't matter. ?The fact that C lacks native
FP> complex numbers is one of the reasons many hard 
FP>?core numerical computing people still frown upon it (not the
FP> only one).

MH> Really? ?OK. ?I was under the impression that while one used complex
MH> numbers heavily in deriving one algorithms, that when it came to
MH> implementing them they weren't an overwhelmingly helpful abstraction
MH> -- that it was often easier to split things up into arrays
MH> real_values, imag_values or something. ?Maybe this is just ignorance,
MH> though.

Scientific packages that use Fourier transforms, frequently
rely on arrays of complex numbers. The general Fourier transform of 
a real array is complex-valued. We sometimes throw away the complex
part (the real part, is, I believe called a "power spectrum"), but without 
it, you cannot correctly recover the original array.

Fourier space calculations are frequently used in image processing, 
enhancement, and tomography.
 
It's also important to realize that in a rapid-prototyping tool (which is 
arguably what Python is best at), the abstract conception is the thing to 
support. A real number-crunching application will use a faster, compiled 
language to implement the "actual algorithms' you're talking about. You see 
that in Numeric or SciPy (which uses LAPACK, still implemented in Fortran!).

But the user/programmer doesn't think that way -- they use the complex-valued 
math which is the way the textbook describes it, and the way you talk about 
the problem (because that's how you're trained).  It's the human-readable 
version.

This is true in IDL, too -- users frequently use horribly memory- or CPU- 
intensive operations simply because it is *conceptually* simpler to do it 
that way. The attitude is that the saved development time is worth the extra 
run time, and you can always throw a more expensive computer at it, whereas 
trained scientists are a limiting reagent. ;-)

Of course, eventually that goes sour and you need to use an optimized 
solution, but when you're read to make that decision, you're probably ready 
to switch languages anyway (and you can use a hybrid of languages as with 
Numeric or Scipy).

FP > I'm not sure what your background is,

MH> Algebraic geometry, mainly, plus a little theoretical physics & number
MH> theory.

Yep. It's ironic that mathematicians hardly ever "do math" (by which I mean 
calculations)! It's scientists that do that  -- mostly applied physics folks: 
astronomers, chemists, geologists, engineers, and some biologists.

Mathematical and theoretical physics applications tend to stay very 
conceptual.  They manipulate equations, but they hardly ever have to actually 
plug in numbers and solve them (especially in droves).

And sometimes, it's not pretty. So we have scientific computing.

FP >?but I can tell you that python is gaining _very_ strong support in
FP >?scientific computing.

I also observe this.
 
MH > Given what I hear of IDL, this doesn't surprise me :)

That isn't pretty, either. ;-)

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From bushbo at attbi.com  Sat Nov  9 13:37:15 2002
From: bushbo at attbi.com (Brian O. Bush)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 10:37:15 -0800
Subject: indexed looping, functional replacement?
Message-ID: <3fe406f0.0211091037.2795e538@posting.google.com>

I currently have a list of functions and a list of arguments to the
functions (n to n). Is there a way I can get around having to keep an
index into the arguments as I loop through the functions. Below is my
imperative approach:

def f1(str):
    print "f1:", str
def f2(str):
    print "f2:", str
def f3(str):
    print "f3:", str

str = ["bbb", "sdf", "sdw"]
fn = [f1, f2, f3]

i = 0
for f in fn:
    f(str[i])
    i = i + 1

I would like a simpler approach to avoid having to manually maintain
an index, maybe functional if possible.

Thanks,
Brian


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  4 12:40:57 2002
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jonathan P.)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 09:40:57 -0800
Subject: getting status of SHIFT and CTRL key under Python curses
Message-ID: <f57664b9.0211040940.333cb3@posting.google.com>

Is it possible to get the status of the SHIFT and
CTRL keys under the python curses API?  Both
getch() nor getkey() return the same values for
SHIFT-'some key' and just 'some key' - no 
differentiation.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 27 16:35:36 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:35:36 -0600
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
In-Reply-To: <200211280809.01424.bhards@bigpond.net.au> (Brad Hards's
 message of "Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:09:01 +1100")
References: <mailman.1038414274.6010.python-list@python.org>
	<vs7auu07opjlv8enekpde94kfo241tnr5a@4ax.com>
	<m2r8d67np1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<200211280809.01424.bhards@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <m2k7iy66hj.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> writes:

    Brad> How far is a mile? How much is a gallon?

A mile is approx 1.7048275260088487e-13 light years.

A gallon is a half a peck.

The units aren't terribly important for this problem.

Cheers!
John Hunter




From trapforcannedmeatproduct at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  9 23:45:21 2002
From: trapforcannedmeatproduct at hotmail.com (R. Charles Henry)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 20:45:21 -0800
Subject: Image merging within python - based tool (maybe OT)
Message-ID: <8ed56b42.0211092045.1e833602@posting.google.com>

I'd like to ask the group's advice.

My situation: I have two separate document images, both of the same
format .png, .bmp, .jpg, or .tif. They are otherwise identical in size
and file characteristics, having been produced from a larger-than-A4
document using an A4 flatbed scanner. Each image contains a region of
'overlap' with the other.

I need to find an open-source 'mosaicking' or 'blending' codebase,
which will be capable of accepting both input images, and merging them
to reproduce an image of the original larger-than-A4 document.

This code is to be used within a tool I am creating using python, &
I'd like to avoid the neccessity of having to manually set reference
points on the input images. The code itself that I'm searching for
doesn't need to be python, just accessible from it.

Since the input images are 'flat', I don't require such features as
projection adjustment etc, I just need some form of basic automatic
'merging'.

Would anyone have any suggestions? Any pointers at all would be very
gratefully received.

TIA


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Nov 19 16:56:55 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:56:55 GMT
Subject: COM interfaces and inheritance
In-Reply-To: <3DDA31DD.35E676C0@hotmail.com>
References: <Xns92CB6026FC70Brobjohnrichardcouk@192.168.0.246> <3DDA31DD.35E676C0@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HsyC9.17443$nK4.48368@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Alan Kennedy wrote:

> So some code might look like this
> 
> objA = createObjA() # Returned object implements interface A
> objB = myModule.IInterface2(objA)
> # Bingo!
> 
> At least, that works for me :-)
> 
> I hope this helps, and that I've explained it clearly enough.

The next version of win32all will have win32com.client.CastTo() - then 
you can simply give the interface by name.  Eg, the SpamBayes outlook 
addin uses this now:

popup = CastTo(popup, "CommandBarPopup")

To "cast" a "CommandBar" object to "CommandBarPopup" (where the latter 
derives from the former).

Mark.



From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 13 15:55:26 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:55:26 -0600
Subject: [regexp] Where's the error in this ini-file reading regexp?
In-Reply-To: <3dd2a254@news.swissonline.ch> ("F. GEIGER"'s message of "Wed,
 13 Nov 2002 20:05:15 +0100")
References: <3dd2a254@news.swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <m2d6p9nq9t.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "F" == F GEIGER <fgeiger at datec.at> writes:
    F> rex = re.compile(r"(\s*(\[.+\])(\s*((.+)=(.+)))+?)",
    F> re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE) L = rex.findall(s)

This is a little messier than necessary.  If the config file is really
as simple as the example, how about a dictionary of dictionaries?

import re
s = \
'''[Section 1]
Key11=Value11
Key12=Value12
Key13=Value13
[Section 2]
Key21=Value21
Key22=Value22
Key23=Value23'''


rgx = re.compile('^\[Section (\d+)\]$')

config = {}
for line in s.split('\n'):
    m = rgx.match(line)
    if m:
        secNum = int(m.group(1))
        continue
    try: secNum
    except NameError: raise RuntimeError, 'Improper config file, no section defined'
    else:
        key, val = line.split('=')
        config.setdefault(secNum, {})[key] = val

print config
        
The key value pairs in each section are calling for a string split.
All you have to do is keep tabs on the section number by updating it
when you see a match for a section regex.  The section numbers are
keys for the dictionary, and each key points to a dictionary of
key/value pairs for that section.

Simple, clean, easy to read and it works.

You can get the vals with, eg, 

config[1]['Key11']

JDH



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov  9 05:49:12 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 02:49:12 -0800
Subject: zip/unzip pictures doesn't work
References: <3DCCE633.5040301@gamebox.net>
Message-ID: <3DCCE828.E8F646DD@alcyone.com>

A Nilsson wrote:

> I've been messing around with the zipfile module and discovered
> something strange.
> When I zip/unzip ordinary text files there's no problem but when i use
> pictures (JPG and GIF) they get corrupted. I believe it is during the
> unzip operation they get messed up.

Sniff, sniff.  I smell a text/binary distinction (and I see you're on
Windows).  Make sure you open the relevant files in binary mode by
appending a 'b' character to the mode string.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Success and failure are equally disastrous.
\__/ Tennessee Williams
    The laws list / http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/laws/
 Laws, rules, principles, effects, paradoxes, etc. in physics.


From un36523f at blue-seal.com  Sat Nov 16 10:37:29 2002
From: un36523f at blue-seal.com (Alexander Meins)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:37:29 +0100
Subject: Python als PHP ersatz?
References: <pan.2002.11.16.10.31.44.540676@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <1176026.fauViv82ue@blue-seal.com>

Marten Bauer wrote:

> Kann mir da jemand weiterhelfen?

comp.* newsgroups are usually english speaking....

A.





From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Nov  1 05:55:19 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:55:19 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: problem with calendar
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211011352050.1275-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

I have the following problem:

Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 18 2002, 11:40:02)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-110)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import calendar
>>> calendar.month_abbr
<calendar._localized_month instance at 0x8164a5c>
>>> calendar.month_abbr()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: _localized_month instance has no __call__ method

What's up?

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 





not to mailto:aaro at onego.ru




From shalehperry at attbi.com  Sat Nov 23 02:32:10 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:32:10 -0800
Subject: Newbie Q on searching lists
In-Reply-To: <3DDF1673.4020203@nyc.rr.com>
References: <3DDF1673.4020203@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200211222332.10353.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On Friday 22 November 2002 21:45, Kenny Tilton wrote:
> I see the index method on lists throws an error if the element sought is
> not found. I was hoping it would return None.
>
> The semantics I am coding happen to throw an error if a certain element
> is found in a list, so i want to code:
>
>     if calculators.index[thisCalculator]:
>        raise CircularDependency, thisCalculator
>
> 1. Am I missing something?
>

if calculators.count(thisCalculator): # returns zero if not found
   raise CircularDependency, thisCalculator

print count.__doc__
count(value) -> integer -- return number of occurrences of value

> 2. Can I add a method to List that has the behavior I am after?
>

in the new python 2.2 code base you can derive from list and add a new method

> 3. Should I just start a module of my favorite utilities and create there:
>
> def find( item, list):
>    try: yada yada...
>

not always a bad option either



From tundra at tundraware.com  Wed Nov  6 18:50:07 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 23:50:07 GMT
Subject: Grabbing Keystrokes Within A GUI Application
Message-ID: <3f9cqa.8e61.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

It has been several centuries since I last wrote GUI code, so I
stipulate that the following question may be Moronic, however ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Part of Python's appeal for me was the lower ramp-up time to getting GUI
applications to work. In an effort to retrain my command line brain to
think GUI-ly again, I decided to start with 'anygui' as a learning
exercise. [I am unclear on just how good/stable the current 'anygui'
code actually is, but, for the moment, it serves my purposes.]

I now have the skeleton of a GUI-driven utility which allows me to
navigate through a file system. When I select a directory, it moves
there. When I click on a file, I do nothing (for now).

Now, here's the part my elderly brain does not get. During all this
mousing, suppose I want to capture keystrokes. In my case, I want to
first select a file visually, and then use a single letter to perform an
operation on it - 'e' for emacs, 'm' for more, and so on. I am hacking
my way to some visual composite of mc, less, and MS Winders Explorer, I
guess.

In the Bad Old Days, I recall hooking into the GUI message handling loop
and looking for messages indicating keyboard input. There appears to be
no such animal, at least in 'anygui'.

Does anyone have suggestions on how this might be accomplished. I am
willing to learn that 'anygui' is not yet stable/feature-laden enough to
do the trick, in which case I will go learn Tkinter as needed.
Similarly, responses in the form of, "You big dummy, this is Soooo, easy
to do..." are fine, but hopefully a pointer to someplace which 'splains
it to me will also be included in that case...

TIA,
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From mstenner at phy.duke.edu  Mon Nov 18 09:36:09 2002
From: mstenner at phy.duke.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:36:09 -0500
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <001e01c28ee0$93ddf290$21795418@dell1700>; from brian@sweetapp.com on Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 12:57:52AM -0800
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A74E@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com> <mailman.1037589625.561.python-list@python.org> <2L2C9.22705$744.831937@news1.tin.it> <20021117221910.A3360@phy.duke.edu> <001e01c28ee0$93ddf290$21795418@dell1700>
Message-ID: <20021118093609.A4968@phy.duke.edu>

On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 12:57:52AM -0800, Brian Quinlan wrote:
> Michael Stenner wrote:
> > I feel like we're going around in circles here.  I'm talking about
> > python.  It looks like 'inline' would produce serious speedups in some
> > cases.  Therefore, it looks like an inline command would not be
> > useless.
> 
> Doing this would be almost impossible because Python name binding is
> done at runtime. For example, how would you compile this?

< excellent examples snipped >

Your point is well made.  It looks like one would have to deviate
extremely far from the "python feel".  It could be done in an
extremely restrictive way, of course, but (as you point out) inline
function objects would not (COULD not) behave like every other python
object does.  They would probably have to be treated like macros and
only have meaning at compile-time.

> Not that an inline keyword should be added to the language even if it
> were possible...

Never said they should :)

On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 09:51:58AM +0000, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Michael Stenner wrote:
>    ...
> > I'm not convinced that it would be "worth it" to have "inline
> > functions" or "auto-inlined code" or whatever you want to call it.
> > That's what I'm trying to discuss.  I'm interested in your (and
> > others') thoughts on the matter.  So far though, I find your claims
> > that they would be useless unconvincing.
> 
> Let's try another tack -- how would it work?
> 
> def f(x):
>     return g(x+1)

< snip >  Summary: g can be anything, and change each time f is called

> OK so far?  This is where we're starting from.  Now, what black magic
> would you be willing to put up with, to enable the user to state that
> g should not be called (despite the presence of the call-operator
> "open and close parens":-) but rather "expanded"?  That's the issue
> as I see it.
> 
> If g is a qualified name, as it often will be when using functions
> defined in another module:
> 
> def ff(x):
>     return gmod.gfun(x+1)
> 
> it becomes even murkier.  Do you think the huge irregularity
> involved in "inline is only allowed for functions whose def
> statement precede the inline-use in this very module" would be
> an acceptable price to pay, for whatever modest benefits you
> think having the compiler inline things rather than having to
> do that yourself might bring?  The discussion needs to be split
> in two alternative threads depending on this crucial decision.

< snipped further discussion of the possible degrees of ugliness >

OK, I'm pretty convinced.  It could by "simple" (as I imagined
it) such that inline functions are like macros.  In this case, they
behave nothing like regular objects (only really existing at
compile-time) and are only usable in very restricted ways.  Or... It
could be "complex" and totally rework the concept of compilation.

I hadn't fully appreciated the complexities introduced by modules.
Basically, I think it comes down to the fact that there _is_ no single
"compile time".  I feel silly for not realizing that.  I've extolled
the benefits of that model many times :)

> Summarizing, my working hypothesis is NOT "inline would be
> TOTALLY useless"; rather, it is, for either possible choice
> regarding what functions inlining could apply to, the costs
> and complications would be SO huge compared with the possible
> benefits that it almost defies belief that somebody would
> propose such changes in earnest.

Well, I want to repeat that I _didn't_ propose such changes.  I merely
sought enlightened opinions on the matter.  I saw modest benefit in
the idea, and was curious about _why_ people thought it was a bad
one.  You (and Daniel) have given me precisely what I asked for.

< snipped analogy explaining absolute vs. relative merit >

> So, I would not feel moved to criticize somebody who described such a plan 
> as "useless", even though the term is not strictly and literally applicable.

My objection to the word "useless" was not linguistic nit-picking.
Timothy was not (as I understood him) saying that the drawbacks far
outweighed the benefits.  He did not discuss drawbacks at all.  He
said that the benefits were insignificant.

You have said something very different (and the sort of thing I was
asking for).  You have said that the modest benefits are dwarfed by
the costs of implementation and the "ugliness" (for lack of a better
word) introduced.  I find your argument quite persuasive.

Thank you all for the discussion.  That's all I was after.  I
apologize if it ever seemed otherwise.

					-Michael
-- 
  Michael Stenner                       Office Phone: 919-660-2513
  Duke University, Dept. of Physics       mstenner at phy.duke.edu
  Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305



From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Mon Nov 25 23:30:13 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:30:13 +1300
Subject: Borgengi (Re: Perl to python convertor)
References: <3dd94531$1@news.mt.net.mk> <3DDA5765.F0DA8132@spam.no.volvo.com>
Message-ID: <3DE2F8D5.6040101@something.invalid>

?????? ?. wrote:
>>--
>>??????
>>
>>   Actually, Microsoft is sort of a mixture between the Borg and the Ferengi.

First rule of assimilation: You will be acquired!


-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Wed Nov 13 04:18:24 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:18:24 +0100
Subject: Tkinter: listbox navigation
References: <0v0tqa.3kf1.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <aqt4rm$3dr$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

> I have looked high and low but cannot find an answer to:
> 
> When I give the listbox focus, I am able to navigate around it using the
> arrow keys. So, even if I have selected a particular item, I can move to
> other items *which is indicated by an underlining of the currently
> navigated item*.  So, at any moment in time, one item may be selected
> and another underlined.
> 
> Is there a way programmatically to force the underlining to a particular
> item?

Yep: use listbox.activate(index) and make sure your listbox keeps the 
keyboard focus (via focus_set I suppose...). To know where the active line 
is, use listbox.index(ACTIVE).

> I cannot seem to find a complete set of docs on the various methods
> and attributes of a listbox, so a pointer to this would also be
> appreciated.

The most complete set of docs you'll ever find is the tk documentation in 
your man pages if you're on Un*x, or @ http://www.tcl.tk/man
You'll have to know how to translate tcl commands to Python methods, but 
that's not the toughest part of the job, especially if you already know the 
basics of Tkinter.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From costanza at web.de  Fri Nov 22 14:49:57 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:49:57 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Donn Cave wrote:

> The procedural aspect of Python is also natural but not necessarily
> benign.  This is basically the linear descendent of assembly language,
> with variables for registers and other superficial differences;  the
> alternative (or one of them, anyway) is the equational reasoning you
> find in functional and logic programming languages.  It's arguably
> true that the normal programmer can more easily conceive a procedural
> solution to a problem, but it is not true that this solution will
> naturally be robust and maintainable.
[...]

That's even true for code that superficially looks like OOP. An 
extremely well-presented example and discussion of this can be found at 
http://csis.pace.edu/~bergin/patterns/ppoop.html


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From tismer at tismer.com  Thu Nov 21 09:09:48 2002
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:09:48 +0100
Subject: SHA-2 state of the art?
Message-ID: <3DDCE92C.70803@tismer.com>

Hi friends,

I am looking for implementations of SHA-256
and SHA-512, and I found CryptKit so far.
http://eevolved.com/cryptkit/
Does anybody know of alternative activities?
Does somebody plan to include sha-2 into the
Python standard?

thanks for any info - chris
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From lvirden at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 08:26:48 2002
From: lvirden at yahoo.com (lvirden at yahoo.com)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 13:26:48 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <aqae8i$hrf$2@news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <aqdpmo$5ur$3@srv38.cas.org>

According to Wojciech Kocjan  <wojciech at n0spam-kocjan.org>:
:But not quite more secure. Imagine userX running a script that does 
:something nasty - like replace some command and then wait for root to 
:call it. This was a very simple example, since probably parrot would 
:recreate interpreters per script, but I guess it still could be possible 
:since it would be the same process...

Each script would need to be done in a seperate safe interpreter which
goes away at the end of the script, so there was no cross process
pollination.

-- 
Tcl - The glue of a new generation.  <URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/ >
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
<URL: mailto:lvirden at yahoo.com > <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/ >


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 18 18:38:55 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:38:55 GMT
Subject: popkey() method for dictionaries?
References: <ar7i50$3ib$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <f9068f8e.0211170458.541bfeba@posting.google.com> <ar8rge$rer$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1037569703.8212.python-list@python.org> <ar97b6$514$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <g21C9.10147$br6.5755@nwrddc03.gnilink.net> <arab9u$ook$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1037633010.22661.python-list@python.org> <arbeqt$goe$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <jSeC9.26310$744.958128@news1.tin.it>

Fernando P?rez wrote:
   ...
> key _will_ trigger an exception, I'd argue that the default behavior of
> all these functions (get, pop, popitem) should be to raise an exception.

Practicality beats purity, and it would be no use for somedict.get(key) to 
be just alternative syntax for somedict[key]; while having it return None
when key not in somedict is useful to enable, for example, such use
as map(somedict.get, potentialkeys).

> Unfortunately these functions (get/pop/popitem) have already been written
> with (it seeems to me) inconsistent interfaces, and we'll just get used to

Yes, somewhat, but I think they're each pragmatic enough that keeping track
is no major chore (IMHO).


Alex



From ajw126NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk  Wed Nov 20 07:26:31 2002
From: ajw126NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:26:31 -0000
Subject: Subscript AST Node
Message-ID: <3ddb7f77$0$113$1b0f2dd5@mercury.nildram.co.uk>

Hi,

I'm working with the Python syntax tree as returned by compiler.parseFile().
Looking at the documentation the subscript node has three attributes, expr,
flags and subs.

'expr' is obvious and does exactly what I'd expect it to do,
'flags' seems to be undocumented (it probably is the source code, but I'd
prefer not go that deep...) - what does it do?
I expected 'subs' to be a single AST node, but instead it's a list - under
what circumstances would this have more than one element in the list?

Any help in understanding this would be greatly appreciated,
Cheers,
Andrew Wilkinson

---
You tried your best and you've failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.





From nelson at crynwr.com  Sun Nov 10 01:34:40 2002
From: nelson at crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 01:34:40 -0500
Subject: PEP #99484663
Message-ID: <m2isz6ue4f.fsf@desk.crynwr.com>

Suggested PEP:

Treat { and } when encountered at the end of a statement like this:

When you see a {, generate an error if the next statement is not
indented more than the previous statement.  When you see }, generate
an error if the next statement is not indented less than the previous
statement.

In this manner, people who are unable to wean themselves from silly
syntactic block structure tokens will be happy with Python, rather
than continually whinging about how horrible it is that indentation is
meaningful to the program.

-- 
-russ nelson              http://russnelson.com |
Crynwr sells support for free software  | PGPok | it's better to be free
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | than to be correct.
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | +1 315 268 9201 FAX   |


From i.steinhardt at web.de  Fri Nov  1 05:05:49 2002
From: i.steinhardt at web.de (x-herbert)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 02:05:49 -0800
Subject: py2exe and COM32
Message-ID: <dfc6f16.0211010205.7623910d@posting.google.com>

Hi, I will build an .exe of my python script...

I have the follow header:

import win32com, sys, string, win32api, re, os
import win32com.client.gencache
from os import spawnv, P_WAIT, unlink
from Tkinter import Tk, Button, Frame, Label
from Tkconstants import *
from win32com.client import gencache
from win32com.client.gencache import EnsureDispatch

and during the "compilation" i have the follow failure-message:

creating dist\Outlook_COM_05\Outlook_COM_05.exe
warning: py2exe: could not parse version number ''
  No VersionInfo will be created
copying C:\PYTHON22\DLLs\tk83.dll -> dist\Outlook_COM_05
copying C:\PYTHON22\DLLs\tcl83.dll -> dist\Outlook_COM_05
copying C:\PYTHON22\DLLs\_tkinter.pyd -> dist\Outlook_COM_05
copying C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32\win32trace.pyd ->
dist\Outlook_COM_05
copying C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\python22.dll -> dist\Outlook_COM_05
copying C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\PyWinTypes22.dll -> dist\Outlook_COM_05
copying C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\win32ui.pyd ->
dist\Outlook_COM_05
copying C:\PYTHON22\DLLs\_sre.pyd -> dist\Outlook_COM_05
copying C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32\win32api.pyd ->
dist\Outlook_COM_05
copying C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\pythoncom22.dll -> dist\Outlook_COM_05
warning: py2exe:
*************************************************************************
warning: py2exe: * The following modules were not found:
warning: py2exe: *   win32dbg.dbgcon
warning: py2exe: *   win32dbg
warning: py2exe: *   win32com.client.Dispatch
warning: py2exe: *   win32com.client.NeedUnicodeConversions
warning: py2exe:
*************************************************************************
removing 'build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect\Outlook_COM_05' (and everything
under it)
Built File dist\Outlook_COM_05\Outlook_COM_05.exe
removing 'build\bdist.win32\winexe' (and everything under it)


Have anybody an solution?? my script works o.k. ....

Thanks
Ingolf


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov 12 13:43:28 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:43:28 -0600
Subject: Optimisation problem
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D5F996@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: gabor [mailto:gabor at realtime.sk]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 12:44 PM
> 
> On Tue, 2002-11-12 at 19:30, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> > > From: gabor [mailto:gabor at realtime.sk]
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 2002-11-12 at 16:50, Michael Hudson wrote:
> > > > anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:
> > > > > m,x,y,z = self.matrix,self.x,self.y,self.z
> > > > > 
> > > > > This is faster
> > > > 
> > > > Don't be so sure: this creates a tuple.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > this is interesting....
> > > 
> > > you're saying that for example
> > > 
> > > x,y = 2,4 
> > > 
> > > creates a tuple?
> > > 
> > > i thought thatr x,y=2,4 is the same as x=2;y=4
> > > 
> > > bye,
> > > gabor
> > 
> > Nope; when declaring tuples, unless stated otherwise,
> > using parenthesis is optional; so you are in fact creating
> > a tuple on both sides of the assignment, and unpacking
> > it into variables on the left side.
> 
> ok, so it creates temporary tuples.. i didn't know that...
> 
> but the end result would be the same?
> 
> bye,
> gabor

In this case which is quite simple, yes, it's the
same result; but others might enlighten us on other
cases where the "obvious" result isn't the one we'd
get.

Any suspects, anyone?

-gustavo



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Nov 20 05:54:16 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:54:16 +0000
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <arfgtg$fhj$1@Fourier.suse.de>
 <7kf83526.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <yCdNHXAYn229Ew6X@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <7kf83526.fsf at python.net>, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net>
writes
>Gernot Hillier <ghillie at suse.de> writes:
......
>> void call_back_into_python(PyThreadState *s)
>> {
>>     PyEval_PyEval_RestoreThread(s)
>>     // do your work
>>     PyEval_SaveThread();
>> }
>
>Unfortunately it won't work this way.
>
>Think of call_some_c_code() being the C standard library's qsort
>function, and call_back_into_python() is the function pointer I gave
>qsort to do the comparison. There's no way to pass the thread state to
>the callback function!
>
>Storing the thread state in a global variable would be possible, but
>in this case it wouldn't be thread safe, I assume, and *only* work if
>the callout into C is done by my extension module.
....
I think there's an issue here though. If the ctypes call is started in
thread A then it makes sense to ensure that thread A receives the
callback. Of course this is moot when only one python thread is running.
Perhaps this is the mainthread only issue with tkinter and the like.
-- 
Robin Becker


From Paul.Casteels at ua.ac.be  Wed Nov  6 02:29:48 2002
From: Paul.Casteels at ua.ac.be (Paul.Casteels at ua.ac.be)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 08:29:48 +0100
Subject: win32com / Dispatch
References: <3dc6c2ad@news.uia.ac.be> <6dXx9.15577$5u4.50589@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3dc8c4ec@news.uia.ac.be>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote:
: Paul.Casteels at ua.ac.be wrote:
:>  When I use win32com.client.Dispatch I get a CDispatch object with an
:> oleobj inside and I have direct access to all methods/attributes.
:>  How can I obtain the same result when I get the IDispatch pointer from
:> an external application (as an argument from another COM method).
:>  The type of this pointer is PyIDispatch but I am unable to invoke any
:> methods on it.

: Simply pass the PyIDispatch object to win32com.client.Dispatch() - it 
: detects this case and creates a wrapper around it.

: Mark.

Thanks a lot, this works fine.

Paul Casteels


From joe+usenet at sunstarsys.com  Mon Nov 11 10:54:08 2002
From: joe+usenet at sunstarsys.com (Joe Schaefer)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 10:54:08 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m3u1ioje5b.fsf@mumonkan.sunstarsys.com>

"Donal K. Fellows" <donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk> writes:

[Scary ... worrying ... security ... suspicious ... pipe-dream]

Brazil (1985).

-- 
Joe Schaefer     "The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility."
                                               --Albert Einstein



From ark at research.att.com  Fri Nov 22 09:53:42 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:53:42 GMT
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Eric> So I told myself: wouldn't it be great if max(None, x) or
Eric> min(None, x) always simply returned x?

My first thought was that this was an excellent idea.

Then I thought again.

Here's the problem:  The notion that max(None, x) and min(None, x)
should both return x is one of three desirable properties that cannot
all be true at once.  Here are the other two:

        1) Whenever x < y, min(x, y) is x and max(x, y) is y.

        2) < is an order relation over all types.

The desirability of (1) should be obvious.  (2) is more subtle, but
it is necessary for it to be possible to sort a vector of heterogenously
typed objects.

Now, if max(None, x) and min(None, x) both yield x, and (1) is true,
then x > None and x < None must both be true.  But then (2) cannot
be true.

So the cost of your proposal would be either to break the consistency
between max/min and >/<, or to render unsortable vectors of values
that include None.

I don't think it's worth it.


-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru  Mon Nov 25 12:19:57 2002
From: zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru (Lexy Zhitenev)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:19:57 +0300
Subject: Problem with paths on Win 9x
References: <uu4hdcoactl7a@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <artm3u$18mi$1@serv.vrn.ru>

> I'm trying to invoke a package, and I'm not getting very far.
> C:\Python22\MyStuff\AstroPy3>python fit\FileRunner.py CivilDateAT.htm
CivATOut.htm

> C:\PYTHON22\PYTHON.EXE: can't open file 'fit\FileRunner.py'
> ...
> The path to FileRunner.py is:
>
> c:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\fit\fit\FileRunner.py
>

Probably, you have forgotten one 'fit' dir. Your running path should look:

C:\Python22\MyStuff\AstroPy3>python fit\fit\FileRunner.py CivilDateAT.htm
CivATOut.htm

or

C:\Python22\MyStuff\AstroPy3\fit>python fit\FileRunner.py CivilDateAT.htm
CivATOut.htm


Also, your package should meet certain requirements:
1) it must have __init__.py in its dir.
2) it must be a subdir of your running script or be present in your sys.path

ALL subpackages should have a __init__.py file.

If you wish to run your script from a package, you have to create a 'run'
script, something like

#!/usr/bin/env python

import fit

fit.fit.FileRunner.main()

or something like that.

Good Luck!
Lexy.




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Nov 17 10:07:02 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:07:02 GMT
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list@python.org> <Pnfy9.2862$h%5.101642@newsb.telia.net> <ar106d$7bg$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <qgOB9.4337$h%5.168679@newsb.telia.net>

Aahz wrote:

> >> Write it in a platform-independent way.  If you *intended* this literal to
> >> mean "a 1 bit followed by 31 zero bits", then stick an L on the end of the
> >> literal.
> >
> >...and remove it again when you get to Python 2.5.
>
> Why?

hint:

*** pep-0237.txt 12 Aug 2002 00:55:43 -0000 1.15
--- pep-0237.txt 7 Nov 2002 15:41:19 -0000 1.16
***************
*** 213,217 ****
          option, but it is off by default.

!     B2. The warning for long literals is turned on by default.

      B3. The warnings about operations that give different results than
--- 213,217 ----
          option, but it is off by default.

!     B2. (This stage is deleted.)

      B3. The warnings about operations that give different results than

</F>




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Nov  6 11:40:57 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:40:57 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
 <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net>
 <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com>
 <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Aw5hLiAZYUy9Ewe1@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <3DC943CF.84A68F32 at san.rr.com>, Darren New <dnew at san.rr.com>
writes
>Robin Becker wrote:
>> Funnily enough they kept telling me that as soon as I switched to
>> F99/C++ etc etc that everything would be portable.
>
>Your confusion is in thinking that "portable" is a binary value. Fortran
>was certainly more portable than assembler, as was C. Tcl is certainly
>more portable than Fortran or C. 
>
>The other problem, of course, is that people keep improving their
>capabilities, so what was portable is no longer adequate. Fortran is
>quite portable, as long as you don't want to do 3D graphics driven by a
>data glove.
>
>As long as you don't want to do development in multiple languages or
>dynamically load code safely over the net into some other OS process,
>Tcl and Python are pretty good choices. Otherwise, you might want to
>consider C# or Java. 
>
>See how it works? :-)
yes you claim to have a better mousetrap :) and suddenly ther are
1.5.2/2.0/2.1/2.2/2.3a1 versions of Python and 6.4/7.1....8.4 of Tcl and
I must buy the right C compiler or OS or things don't really quite port
oh well there you go.

English was portable until everyone started using it ;)
-- 
Robin Becker


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 13 13:51:27 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:51:27 -0700
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <aqu6vg$bvr$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Ken Starks wrote:

> So we need:
>   1. LaTeX for authors
>   2. XML for the machine
>   3. Variety for the readers
> 
> To me this boils down to a two-way conversion system, with
> a 'there-and-back' circular function that preserves all
> content, and turns rapidly into a constant loop.

[snip]

> If this works, then it doesn't matter a damn which of
> Latex and xml is the 'official' one.

Good luck. Writing such a tex<->xml converter is an insanely non-trivial task, 
and I know a few bright people who have tackled it. If you do succeed, 
_please_ let the Lyx team know about it. There's interest in using XML in 
Lyx, but one of the hurdles is that the Lyx format, while not exactly latex, 
is reasonably tied to it. Latex is very hard to parse correctly, from what 
I've seen. Considering it's basically a full-blown programming language, 
short of rewriting TeX itself, this won't be a simple task...

A nice starter project (which a friend of mine is working on) is a tex->MathML 
parser. Please drop a line if you get such a gizmo going, I'd love to see it.

Cheers,

f.


From jslm at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 18 01:08:20 2002
From: jslm at earthlink.net (joshua solomon)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 06:08:20 GMT
Subject: wxPython question
References: <lNRB9.2743$fY3.294687@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <Xns92C9DA5E62FACcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <ot%B9.4335$%32.405145@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Chris Liechti" <cliechti at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:Xns92C9DA5E62FACcliechtigmxnet at 62.2.16.82...
> "joshua solomon" <jslm at earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:lNRB9.2743$fY3.294687 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net:
>
> > Basically I have a loop within the OnPaint handler which I am using
> > for bouncing a ball around on a screen.
>
> don't do the loop for the animation in the event handler. do it in a
> separate thread nad call Refresh() or us a wxClientDC to draw in that loop
> directly.
>
> GUI rule 1: event handlers have to be short (in time)
>
> so no animations and workers. use Threading instead.
>

Thanks for the info Chris. It worked.




From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov 27 08:37:19 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:37:19 GMT
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3adjvqgs4.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu) writes:

> The global statement as in
> 
> def f(x):
>     global y
>     ...
> 
> is a directive to the parser. 

Well, compiler, really.

> Internally the parser must keep a list of the "locally-globalled"
> names.

Yup, at least on some level.

> Yes, you guessed right, out of pure curiosity: is this list
> accessible from Python? 

Don't think so, as the list only exists during compiling and you can't
hook into it or only execute one phase of it.

> If not, why not? :)

See above.  You can probably get the compiler package to do what you
want.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
48. The best book on programming for the layman is "Alice in
    Wonderland"; but that's because it's the best book on
    anything for the layman.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html


From i.steinhardt at web.de  Fri Nov 22 05:19:18 2002
From: i.steinhardt at web.de (x-herbert)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 02:19:18 -0800
Subject: problem with regex
Message-ID: <dfc6f16.0211220219.43b43d6@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have a problem with the regex in python:

I will e.g. only find the word eMail in a string. Her is a part of my code...
.....................
key = "eMail"
i = ".....bla bla XXXX ..."  #see below for XXXX...
regkey = "\\b"+key+"\\b"     # for find key alone
regex = re.compile(regkey)
result = regex.search(i)
if result:
    print "find"
else:
    print "find not"
.......................
Result:
XXXX:       print:
eMail       find   # o.k. ;-)
eMailNews   find not
eMail_News  find not
eMail-News  find # upps why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eMail*News  find # upps why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eMail?News  find # upps why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eMail#News  find # upps why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...etc.

I think, the regkey = "\beMail\b" find this word alone.... ?????

Thanks!

Ingolf


From oracle_vs_ms at yahoo.dk  Thu Nov  7 03:30:18 2002
From: oracle_vs_ms at yahoo.dk (Peter Lorenzen)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 00:30:18 -0800
Subject: Subclassing the min() build-in function?
References: <18eef4ae.0211060911.2c0a7731@posting.google.com> <aqblbq$dta$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <Mhdy9.2828$h%5.100861@newsb.telia.net> <aqbosg$e6g$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <18eef4ae.0211070030.15604f21@posting.google.com>

Thank you very much, all of you. I works great.

Regards,
Peter


From john.abel at pa.press.net  Fri Nov 15 08:47:20 2002
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:47:20 +0000
Subject: Calling A Deconstructor
Message-ID: <3DD4FAE8.5080905@pa.press.net>

Hi,

I have a class, with an __init__, and a main function, basically a 
wrapper around smtplib.  I wish to add a __del__ to the class.  Two 
questions:  Do I need to do it this way?  If so, how do I can close the 
instance, so the __del__ is called?  The script will be permanently 
resident, so I wanted to make sure that I didn't have various 
connections open to the smtp server.

Thanks

John




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Nov 15 13:34:37 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:34:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <ar387a$hmb$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211151030200.643-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Daniel Dittmar wrote:

> holger krekel wrote:
> > But in fact i'd like to see some examples of what is readable and
> > what is not readable in your oppinion.
> 
[snip]
> list comprehension: not readable, because you don't know what to search for.

It's funny what people do and don't find readable, huh? I use list comps
all the time because to me they are almost always more readable than the
equivalent code and more vertically compact as well. I wouldn't mind
having a dictionary comp but don't need it nearly as much, even less so a
generator comp.

Just my $0.02,
Dave




From mstenner at phy.duke.edu  Wed Nov 13 21:14:03 2002
From: mstenner at phy.duke.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:14:03 -0500
Subject: calendar modules
In-Reply-To: <aqup0n$dfa9a$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>; from CousinStanley@HotMail.com on Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 05:03:50PM -0700
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk> <slrnat4sfj.19g.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <7396d2b2.0211131136.160ee567@posting.google.com> <aquat8$l2q$0@216.39.172.122> <aqup0n$dfa9a$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20021113211403.A12442@phy.duke.edu>

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 05:03:50PM -0700, Cousin Stanley wrote:
> || I tried. But checking the day of the week I was born
> || didn't work. This calendar seems limited to >= 1970-01-01
> 
> It seems there is also a future limit ...
> 
>     ( 1970 , 01 )  <=  ( iYear , iMonth )  <=  ( 2038 , 01 )

Yes, both of these come from the fact that "unix time" is counted as
the number of seconds since the "epoch", which is the first seconds of
1970.  If you represent it as a 32 bit unsigned int, that gives you
about 68 years.
					-Michael
-- 
  Michael Stenner                       Office Phone: 919-660-2513
  Duke University, Dept. of Physics       mstenner at phy.duke.edu
  Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305



From brian_l at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 23:15:59 2002
From: brian_l at yahoo.com (Brian Lenihan)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 20:15:59 -0800
Subject: PySol Windows binaries, anyone?
References: <mailman.1036695670.29735.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <afe3b146.0211072015.e3ddd81@posting.google.com>

Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036695670.29735.python-list at python.org>...

> Does somebody have a working PySol for me?
> Or maybe one of the last working installers is still
> around? I'd also put this on my website for people
> to download. Markus seems to be no longer reachable
> by email.

I have some stuff here which should help:

http://homepage.mac.com/brian_l


From yduppen at xs4all.nl  Sun Nov  3 06:18:23 2002
From: yduppen at xs4all.nl (Yigal Duppen)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 12:18:23 +0100
Subject: Macros in Python, and using reg exps to build a scheme interpreter
References: <mailman.1036097562.22571.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dc50600$0$39814$e4fe514c@dreader5.news.xs4all.nl>

> Currently in one of my classes I'm building a scheme interpreter
> in Java. This has brought two questions to mind. First does python use
> language macros to define higher level functionality. And two does anyone
> know a good place to look for how to implement a scheme parser using
> regular expressions?

As others already mentioned, regexes are not very suitable for the entire 
parsing. It's usually better to use a parser generator.

For an example of a (partial) scheme interpreter in Python, have a look at 
http://www.xs4all.nl/~yduppen/site/psyche.html

YDD
-- 
http://www.xs4all.nl/~yduppen


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 13 04:47:16 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 09:47:16 GMT
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <aqt734$r6j$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:21:33 +0100, "Gumuz" <gumuz at looze.net> wrote:

>sorry guys/girls, but i had to vent this :)
>
>
>i am using wxPython at the moment as my python gui. Coming from a nice IDE
>like Delphi it's really frustrating to get a nice layout together. I tried
>some tools. The one i liked most, because of it's simplicity was wxGlade,
>but still... it's not there yet. I might have missed something here and I
>don't want to complain, but I think that a good, robust gui-designer will
>open up a lot of posibilities for python. i might give it a shot!
>
Your mention of Delphi made me recall that you can right click on a gui form
and select 'view as text' from the popup menu, and you get to see all the
parameters that define your layout. E.g. a default form with one button dropped
on it near the top left:

object Form1: TForm1
  Left = 200
  Top = 108
  Width = 544
  Height = 375
  Caption = 'Form1'
  Font.Charset = DEFAULT_CHARSET
  Font.Color = clWindowText
  Font.Height = -11
  Font.Name = 'MS Sans Serif'
  Font.Style = []
  PixelsPerInch = 96
  TextHeight = 13
  object Button1: TButton
    Left = 40
    Top = 24
    Width = 75
    Height = 25
    Caption = 'Button1'
    TabOrder = 0
  end
end

I wonder if anyone has written a translator for this information to port a GUI design
into wxWindows or tkinter. The Delphi IDE is quite nice for fiddling with your visual
design (other aspects of Delphi are nice too, but that's another topic).

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dig.list at nm.ru  Wed Nov 13 04:47:56 2002
From: dig.list at nm.ru (DIG)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 03:47:56 -0600
Subject: newbie Q: shortcuts for long module names?
In-Reply-To: <Vs_z9.47492$Lg2.13559342@news2.news.adelphia.net>; from "Robert Oschler" on Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 03:21:25AM
References: <Vs_z9.47492$Lg2.13559342@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <20021113034756.A32761@lifebook>

Hi, Robert Oschler !

 On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 03:21:25AM +0000, Robert Oschler wrote:

> Let's say I import a module with a long name:
> 
> import com.long.module.name
> 
> Now every time I access a function in com.long.module.name I have to prepend
> "com.long.module.name" to the member function.  Is there generally accepted
> and safe way to "alias" the module name or bring it into the local namespace
> so I can either omit or alias the module name with something much shorter?

I have seen this a few times:

    import Tkinter
    tk=Tkinter
    root = tk.Tk()
    button = tk.Button( )
    button['text'] = "test"
    root.pack() 
    root.mainloop( )

Line "tk=Tkinter" allows you to have whatever you want as a module's name.
In your case this could be:

    import com.long.module.name
    short_one = com.long.module.name

or even

    import com.long.module.name
    m = com.long.module.name


Best regards,

-- 
DIG (Dmitri I GOULIAEV)



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Nov 15 12:08:08 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:08:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python urllib.urlretrieve vs. Perl getstore
In-Reply-To: <20021115152947.D30315@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211150906120.607-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

Adam S wrote:
> 
> I have a Perl and a Python version of a program designed to fetch
> large files (40MB) from a remote HTTP server.
> 
> Initial tests indicate that the Perl version, using getstore()
> is 3-4 times faster than the Python version. Is there a reason
> for this and is there another Python library HTTP file fetch
> function I can use? I don't want to use FTP as there
> is no anonymous logon for this server.

40 MB files? Hmm... maybe is urllib pulling the entire file into memory?  
If so, the slowdown might have nothing to do with the network and
everything to do with the OS swapping memory to disk.

-Dave




From maney at pobox.com  Mon Nov 25 13:20:39 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:20:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>   <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arrijv$kap$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <1038199757.350382@yasure> <tyf4ra5zrli.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <artpln$cbe$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> When you call a subroutine, you are calling a specific piece of
> code. The caller decides what will be executed. When you pass a
> message, the decision as to which exact code should be executed is
> made elsewhere (some form of dispatch).
> 
> But it looks as if my understanding of message passing is different
> from Pascal's.

Maybe, but probably less so than you imagine.  You're desribing it from
the relatively concrete, implementation side; Pascal has preferred the
fuzzy, metaphorical language that was introduced, IMO, in an effort
either to make a useful but trivial formalism sound like it was
something wonderful, or to hilight the important new ways of thinking
about and structuring programs that the formalism (ie., language
support) made much more convenient.  This is Monday, so today I'll say
it was the former, handwaving; on Tuesdays I prefer the metaphor as
pedagogical device.  And so it goes through the week...


From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Sat Nov  2 12:27:55 2002
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:27:55 +0100
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <3dc3dc4e$0$12762$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <aq1235$h36$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

"Derek Thomson" <derek at wedgetail.com> schreef in bericht
news:3dc3dc4e$0$12762$afc38c87 at news.optusnet.com.au...
<...snip...>
>
> Then there's the fact that it takes between 5-10 lines of Java to do the
> same thing in Python, depending on what you're doing. Having a very high
> level language, as opposed to a high level one, definitely helps
> refactoring in that there's much less code to refactor. Look at the size
> of Fnorb (*), compared to Java ORBs. Or just look at the size of the
> Fnorb IDL compiler ... and it's even readable. I know which I'd like to
> be refactoring.
>
> (*) http://fnorb.org
>
<...snip...>
Do you by any means have the data at hand (kloc's for Java, kloc's for
comparable Python; ORB and/or IDL compiler)? I am highly interested in any
substantiated evidence with respect to language efficiency/expressiveness.

>
> --
> D.
regards Gerrit Muller

--
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/





From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov  8 19:17:00 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:17:00 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <7b8f89d6.0211081548.f91b468@posting.google.com>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7b8f89d6.0211081548.f91b468@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200211090017.QAA18787@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Friday 08 November 2002 15:48, larry wrote:
>
> Why do SOME people think Lisp is a fantastic programming langugae?
> Are we missing something?

Because for all it's silly, irritating parenthesis, it got some things very 
right.  Whenever I see a new language, I tend to ask myself: "What subset of 
LISP is it trying to do, and what does it give up to do so."

-- 

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov  7 06:24:57 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:24:57 GMT
Subject: segmentation fault when unpickling an object in another Python instance
References: <3DC96AAD.9090503@web.de> <eAWdnTH219An7FSgXTWcqA@comcast.com> <3DC99AF6.2030906@web.de>
Message-ID: <7h3lm45zktm.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Raik Gruenberg <graik at web.de> writes:

> It's not cPickle specific - I got the same segmentation fault when
> using normal pickle.
> 
> Getting a minimum example will take some time and it can get quite
> long. I can switch off the error by deleting a line in the constructor
> of the pickled object...
> 
> Summary so far, I can not unpickle my object if:
> - The constructor of this object called (before pickling) a certain
> method of an internally referenced object
> - this internal object encapsulates an Numeric array
> - the certain method deletes parts of this array (via Numeric.compress )
> 
> Rings a bell for someone??

I'd like to apply my SEP[1] field and say this is likely to be a bug
in Numeric.  Not sure though.  Can you try just pickling & unpickling
a Numeric.array that has had bits chopped out of it with .compress()?

Cheers,
M.
[1] Someone Else's Problem: I'm a developer on the Python project, but
    not NumPy :)

-- 
  A difference which makes no difference is no difference at all.
                        -- William James (I think.  Reference anyone?)


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Mon Nov 18 10:15:51 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:15:51 -0600
Subject: Pythoncal, anyone? (My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syn
	tax (PEP 255))
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E36D04@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Greg Ewing [mailto:see_reply_address at something.invalid]
> Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 8:27 PM
> 
> I have an idea: Suppose there were a "don't"
> statement that could be put in front of another
> statement to, effectively, comment it out,
> e.g.
> 
>   def foo():
>     # This function does nothing
>     don't print "Hello"
> 
> Then an empty generator could be written
> 
>   def g():
>     don't yield None
> 
> Now, since this isn't going to do anything,
> it should be permissible to omit any expressions
> that would otherwise be required in a statement
> covered by a "don't", leaving just
> 
>   def g():
>     don't yield
>

Yeah, and let's create a "mesh" operator, and a "worm",
and "rabbit-ears", and "wax-wane", and ... :-)

Been reading too much intercal, eh? ;-)

-gustavo



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Nov  7 06:49:46 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:49:46 GMT
Subject: "Universal Gateway"
References: <apkc4c$d5s$2@pith.uoregon.edu> <n0oxjc6f.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Rejw9.22645$jE1.72970@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <1y63gc02.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Y_Nx9.14995$5u4.46256@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <heewyxlc.fsf@ion-tof.com>
Message-ID: <ursy9.23689$5u4.72621@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Thomas Heller:

> With this module available, and an additional com foundation
> which is included in it's test directory, Neil's sample
> can be written in this way:

   That's much nicer than my code.

> I didn't advertise my ctypes module, because the documentation is not
> yet complete, and I probably don't have the time to support it.

   It can take a lot of time to support open source code but this deserves
wider distribution. If I was working on Windows (I'm currently stuck on
Linux) I'd certainly want to use this module as it moves beyond calldll
allowing much clearer and maintainable code. A good improvement would be to
read type libraries to build the message lists and argument descriptions.

   Neil




From gumuz at looze.net  Wed Nov 13 05:01:22 2002
From: gumuz at looze.net (Gumuz)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:01:22 +0100
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <aqt734$r6j$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3dd22136$0$229$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

that's not such a bad idea!
imho, delphi has the best IDE of all rad's i've seen.

thanks for the suggestion


"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:aqt734$r6j$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> I wonder if anyone has written a translator for this information to port a
GUI design
> into wxWindows or tkinter. The Delphi IDE is quite nice for fiddling with
your visual
> design (other aspects of Delphi are nice too, but that's another topic).
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Nov 19 06:54:38 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:54:38 GMT
Subject: Will python binaries compiled on vs.net?
In-Reply-To: <adk656xw.fsf@python.net>
References: <mailman.1037638533.5593.python-list@python.org> <VjdC9.14331$nK4.35697@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <fzty57sy.fsf@python.net> <adk656xw.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <2EpC9.16894$nK4.44372@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:
>>Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> writes:
>>
>>
>>>I simply like the VC6 UI better.  I have a full VC7 installed here,
>>>but never use it.
>>>
>>
>>Same for me, but one thing annoys me: if an access violation is raised
>>or a breakpoint encountered, now VC7 pops up (after asking several
>>questions) if I press the cancel button in the message box to debug
>>the application.
>>
>>So my question is: How can I restore the debugger from VC6 to be the
>>default again?
> 
> 
> Found it myself :-)
> 
> The path to the debugger is stored in HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows
> NT\CurrentVersion\AeDebug, in a value named Debugger. Fortunately
> MSVC7 saved the value from VC6 as PreVisualStudio7Debugger, so it was
> easy to restore.

Exactly what I did ;)  Much happier now :)

Mark.



From hjwidmaier at web.de  Tue Nov  5 00:49:22 2002
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 21:49:22 -0800
Subject: Tkinter disregards font encoding
References: <6e990e29.0211040009.33127f7@posting.google.com> <j4n0op68yi.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <6e990e29.0211042149.2768fb11@posting.google.com>

loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. L?wis wrote in message news:<j4n0op68yi.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de>...

> What is the value of self.priceVar?

It's a (normal) string.
 
> Here is my theory: you are using a Latin-1 locale, and use a byte
> string for the priceVar, where you use '\xe4' to denote the EURO SIGN.
> However, in Latin-1, '\xe4' denotes the CURRENCY SIGN. Tk tries to
> convert the local encoding (latin-1) into the font encoding (latin-9);
> since latin-9 does not support the CURRENCY SIGN, this conversion
> fails.

My locale is set to 'de_DE at euro', which ought to result in using
Latin-9. (At least that's what I thought.) I just tried my program on
my box at work, and, without any changes,  I got a euro sign. Sigh.

> Instead, you should use a Unicode string to denote the EURO SIGN,
> which would be u'\u20ac'.

I'll try that. Thanks.

Hans-Joachim


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Nov  9 11:25:59 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 16:25:59 GMT
Subject: re.sub() bug?
References: <3dcb7ea6$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <rGaz9.3864$1r1.125736@newsc.telia.net>

Mike Brown wrote:

> Python 2.2.1 on FreeBSD.
> These work as expected:
>
> >>> re.sub(u'f', u'b', u'foo')  # keep string as Unicode
> u'boo'
> >>> re.sub(u'f', u'b', 'foo')   # coerce string to Unicode
> u'boo'
>
> But this doesn't work the way I'd think it would:
>
> >>> re.sub(u'f', u'b', u'')     # coerce string to non-Unicode?!
> ''
>
> So, is this a bug?

It's a buglet, sure.

But if you write code that depends on this difference, your code is
a lot more fragile (and less future-proof) that it should be.

Python's Unicode system allows you to mix Unicode strings with
standard strings, as long as the latter contain only ASCII characters.
Good practice is to make sure your code is as tolerant as Python.

(or to put it another way, write code that does the right thing if
an operation returns a Unicode string instead of the corresponding
ASCII string, and likewise, if a function that usually returns a Uni-
code string returns an ordinary string instead).

Standard strings containing non-ASCII data is a different thing;
they're encoded, and should be seen as binary buffers.

</F>




From schond at eecs.ku.edu  Wed Nov 27 20:08:42 2002
From: schond at eecs.ku.edu (David Schonberger)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:08:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: a simple question about class composition
Message-ID: <20021127190730.L17081-100000@tesla.eecs.ku.edu>

I have the following two class definitions in a file called myclass.py:

###begin###

class MyClass:
    def __init__(self, txt):
        self.text = txt
    def printText(self):
        print "Text for MyClass " + str(self.text) + "\n"

class MyOtherClass:
    def __init__(self,txt):
        self.text = txt
    def printText2(self):
        print "Twice the text for MyOtherClass " + str(2*self.text) + "\n"

###end###

I then have the following code in a file called mycontainerclass.py:

###begin###

from myclass import *

class MyContainerClass:
    def __init__(self, txt):
        self.text = txt
        self.one = MyClass(" I like Vanilla Coke")
        self.two = MyOtherClass("I like Classic Coke")


    def printContainerText(self):
        print "Container class text " + str(self.text) + "\n"

    def invokePrint(self):
        self.one.printText()
        self.two.printText2()

if __name__ == "__main__":
   myobj = MyContainerClass("I like both Vanilla Coke and Classic Coke")
   myobj.invokePrint()
   myobj.printContainerText()

###end###

When I try to run this code for MyContainerClass I get the following
error:

###begin###

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:/Python22/mycontainerclass.py", line 18, in ?
    myobj = MyContainerClass("I like both Vanilla Coke and Classic Coke")
  File "C:/Python22/mycontainerclass.py", line 7, in __init__
    self.two = MyOtherClass("I like Classic Coke")
NameError: global name 'MyOtherClass' is not defined

###end###

Any idea what is happening? I came across similar code in Lutz's "Learning
Python" (a good three years old; perhaps this is part of the problem). I
am running Python 2.2.1 on Win2K but have run into the same problem on
Linux. Note that if I comment out the stuff about MyOtherClass in
MyContainerClass--i.e. the stuff having to do with self.two--everything
works fine, with MyClass successfully embeded in MyContainerClass. Any
help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Regards,
David

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
* David Schonberger                                         *
* Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science *
* University of Kansas                                      *
* email: schond at eecs.ukans.edu                              *
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*




From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Thu Nov 14 16:58:02 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:58:02 GMT
Subject: Open and reading a file...
References: <clUA9.14453$md7.1204247@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <3468tuokdjcbr1qv9r96m7sflvana7too4@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:12:41 -0500, "Marlon Rea"
<mrea at commerceworks.on.ca> wrote:
>    Can someone help me with opening and reading a file???? THANK YOU ALL

Wow.  A perfect example of its kind.

I found this as well:

>From: "Marlon Rea" <mrea at commerceworks.on.ca>
>Newsgroups: alt.os.windows2000
>Subject: Re: Title Bar Has Gone Missing???
>Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:39:28 -0500
>
>
>When is dought re-boot.
>
>
>"Mona Suitter" <suitter at rogers.com> wrote in message
>> My title bar has gone missing????  How do I get it back?  Do I have to
>> reinstall Windows??
>> Any info would be greatly appreciated!!!
>> Thanks!
>> Mona :)

Incredible... The blind leading the blind.

Anyway...

***NOT TESTED, TRY AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!***

for x in open('read.txt').readlines(): print x


From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  8 11:39:21 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:39:21 -0000
Subject: slow on HPUX, SunOS, fast on MS Win2K and Linux?
References: <xqxlm45jvpd.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bxaivQEVTxy9EwsF@hiredata.gol.com>
Message-ID: <usnq5p7tld0639@corp.supernews.com>

In article <bxaivQEVTxy9EwsF at hiredata.gol.com>,
Ian Parker  <parker at gol.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>In a previous incarnation as a datacentre manager, I was increasingly 
>embarrassed that of all the "serious" machines in our datacentre (Sun, 
>IBM and HP, Compaq Alpha)  only the some of Compaq Alphaservers were 
>faster, CPU for CPU, than the recent Intel boxes.  We bought the 
>"serious" machines for more for their multiprocessing, large memory, i/o 
>bandwidth or even OS (e.g. for VMS or Tru64 UNIX clustering).
			.
			.
			.
This is somehow even more so for mainframes, whose
CPU performance for decades has been mediocre, but
which remain champs at moving data around.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From support at internetdiscovery.com  Fri Nov 15 16:17:04 2002
From: support at internetdiscovery.com (Mike Clarkson)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:17:04 GMT
Subject: lisp scheme lush python etc.
References: <mailman.1036769111.29831.python-list@python.org> <9a6d7d9d.0211120754.5245cc65@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3dd56449.9609081@nntp.ix.netcom.com>

On 12 Nov 2002 07:54:01 -0800, aaron at reportlab.com (Aaron Watters)
wrote:

>I abandoned Lisps and scheme for Python about a decade ago
>(with misgivings) primarily because
>   0) portability and stability
>   1) libraries and portable extension framework
>   2) it's friendly to other software 
>      (from above and below and anywhere else)
>   3) the syntax doesn't stink 
>      (but if it was done over I'd add brackets)
>   4) it's easy enough for noneggheads
>   5) Everything I liked to do that was easy
>      in Lisps was also easy (and clearer too) in
>      Python. (ymmv)
>It seems to me that most similar languages still
>fail on at least one of the above.  (1,3,5) are very
>much judgement calls, of course.
>
>The major thing that is missing, of course is some sort of
>(optional, inferred) type checking.  I'm also getting
>nervous about bloat...

What would be really interesting would be a Lython -a Python written
in Common Lisp, like Jython is written in Java. I think Lisp would be
as good a language as Java for writing an intepreter, and there might
be good performance from Lython given the very good native code
compilers that are available for Lisp.

It would give Lisp another lease on life, would prove the portability
of Python again, and would expose the Python community to some
of the first class type inferencing and optimizations made by Lisp
compilers (for example the compiler called 'Python' in CMU Lisp).

Mike.


From bondpaper at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  6 21:02:18 2002
From: bondpaper at earthlink.net (Tom)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 02:02:18 GMT
Subject: Long overflow problem
References: <bondpaper-55CDDD.13105906112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net> <yu99n0oml9zj.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <bondpaper-7D7F62.16212006112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net> <aqc8l7$a55$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <bondpaper-C2303F.19081406112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net>

In article <aqc8l7$a55$1 at peabody.colorado.edu>,
 Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Tom wrote:
> 
> 
> > def myFunc (i, j):
> >    for a in range(i, j):
> >       print a
> > 
> > I get the same error. Are there any implicit conversions going on here?
> 
> Yes, the problem is that range() doesn't accept longs. You can consider it a 
> bug, but it's a feature :)
> 
> The quick fix is to do 'for a in range(j-i)' instead, and operate with 'i+a' 
> instead. 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> f

Ok...it's a range issue. And in addition to your suggestion, I just 
realized....a simple "while i < j..." would have sufficed. Amazing how 
the simplest answers take the longest to figure out sometimes. : )

Regards,

Tom


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Nov  5 05:45:33 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 11:45:33 +0100
Subject: UDP broadcasts => 'Permission denied'
References: <mailman.1036450093.4936.python-list@python.org> <m2y9889aer.fsf@mail.a-nugget.de> <mailman.1036488547.9969.python-list@python.org> <slrnasf6kn.d5v.fang@calvin.fayauffre.org>
Message-ID: <j4lm481eia.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Alexandre Fayolle <fang at free.fr> writes:

> However, it could be interesting to provide more information for people
> using non-unix systems where these manpages are not easily available.

Most definitely. The current state is the direct result of
contributors not having the energy to elaborate more, and thus refer
to existing documentation whereever possible. Referring to existing
documentation is a good thing, especially as the behaviour might
change across systems. 

However, contributions to improve the documentation would be most
welcome. Contributors should phrase the documentation carefully to
point out potentially differences in behaviour across
systems. E.g. the set of errno values you can get from a specific
system call can vary, as does the set of available socket options,
fcntl functions, etc.

Regards,
Martin


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Wed Nov 27 22:51:51 2002
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 11:51:51 +0800
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org> <3DE4102D.7D4291F4@alcyone.com> <3DE58723.5040306@something.invalid> <3o3buus1f8kv1psdps2nsq3ed8ltq5ece8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7iof8a1hd4.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Courageous" == Courageous  <jkraska at san.rr.com> writes:

    >> This is a special case of the general principle that it's usually
    >> clearer if expressions don't have side effects.

    Courageous> Oh, quite true! As a general rule of thumb, I consider
    Courageous> expressions with side effects to be bad coding practice.  I
    Courageous> don't mind at all that Python doesn't allow them.

How about if Python disallow functions to do anything "with a side effect"?
After all, function calls are expressions.

Regards,
Isaac.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Nov 18 09:32:41 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 09:32:41 -0500
Subject: Pythoncal, anyone? (My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax
        (PEP 255))
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org> <PoWcnQjwr8ECy06gXTWc3A@comcast.com> <3DD84FDA.3010708@something.invalid> <mailman.1037591246.25665.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aratm9$1l0$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1037591246.25665.python-list at python.org>,
Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>    Greg> I have an idea: Suppose there were a "don't" statement that could
>    Greg> be put in front of another statement to, effectively, comment it
>    Greg> out,
>
>Dunno if your suggestion is serious, but if so, you could extend the pass
>statement, yes?

Re-read the Subject: line.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 14 04:29:21 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 09:29:21 GMT
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD1AB92.3030409@something.invalid> <aqu0ji$rgg$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD2E9A0.8050500@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <aqvqdh$377$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:09:04 +1300, Greg Ewing <see_reply_address at something.invalid> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>> Plus that version retains a reference to math, where I'd like to think that
>> I would wind up with just a reference to a double with the 3.14.. value. I.e.,
>>      def foo(pi = math.pi):
>>          return pi
>
>
>Yes, that's probably what I should have written.
>
>> Also I think I would like a keyword that governs
>> a block scope instead of just the scope of an assignment. E.g.,
>> 
>>     def foo():
>>         predef:
>>             import math
>>             pi = math.pi
>>             del math
>>             seven = 7
>>         return pi, seven
>
>
>Too complicated. You could get the same effect by putting the
>code outside the def:
>
>    from math import math_pi
did you mean
     from math import pi as math_pi
?
>
>    def foo():
>       const pi = math_pi
>       const seven = 7
>       ...
>
>    del math_pi

Not quite the same effect: you are introducing temporary global bindings.
And ISTM your version really only looks less complicated because you moved
two statements out of the local scope.

To avoid the global temp, I suppose you could write

    def foo():
        const pi = [__import__('math')][0].pi
        const seven = 7

but down that road lies much abuse, trying to cram block scope intentions
into expression scope. I don't think it's possible to anticipate what
people will want to do, except that people will tend to work around limitations
in ugly ways if there's no clean way to express their intent. So I'd rather
provide a freer "scope" ;-)

BTW, I'd suggest "preset" as closer to the semantic mark than "const" if your
proposal gets adopted. Maybe my block introducer should similarly be "presets:".
Then for minimal one-liner usage, it would look concise and similar

    def foo():
        presets: seven = 7
        ...
vs.

    def foo():
        const seven = 7
        ...

or
    def foo():
        preset seven = 7
        ...

I like the option of simple multiple values on a single line too.

    def foo():
        presets: seven = 7; eight = 2**3
        ...

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Wed Nov 20 15:43:55 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:43:55 -0700
Subject: Permuting data
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019201BFD7DC@admin56.narex.com>

> From: user at domain.invalid [mailto:user at domain.invalid] 
> 
> Hi,
> I have encountered a following problem: I need to permute 
> randomly 200 
> lines of data  100 times... Meaning that each iteration, data 
> lines are 
> in the random order. What would be the proper way to do it?

Module: random, Function: shuffle.

-- bjorn



From fgeiger at datec.at  Fri Nov 22 02:48:39 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:48:39 +0100
Subject: [wxPython] I'd like to catch mouse click events within a textcontrol
References: <3ddd24d9@news.swissonline.ch> <mailman.1037919514.18620.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ddde146@news.swissonline.ch>

Thanks for the info, Cliff, and for the sample code. Perfect.

Stupid me: After all a textCtrl is a window...

Kind regards
Franz


"Cliff Wells" <LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1037919514.18620.python-list at python.org...
On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 10:24, F. GEIGER wrote:
> I'd like to catch mouse click events within a text control and then read
the
> mouse pointer position. Alas, the only events I found in the dox are,
> EVT_TEXT, EVT_TEXT_ENTER, EVT_TEXT_URL, EVT_TEXT_MAXLEN.

Those events are specific to the wxTextCtrl, but you can also use the
events that are common to *all* controls:

from wxPython.wx import *

class ClickableText(wxTextCtrl):
    def __init__(self, parent, id):
        wxTextCtrl.__init__(self, parent, id)
        EVT_LEFT_DOWN(self, self.OnClick)

    def OnClick(self, event):
        print event.GetX(), event.GetY()
        raise SystemExit

app = wxPySimpleApp()

frame = wxDialog(None, -1, "Test")
text = ClickableText(frame, -1)
frame.ShowModal()

--
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308





From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 18 05:22:38 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 02:22:38 -0800
Subject: 'for' loop in python,  error: unsubscriptable object
References: <7913deb3.0211180155.4a243cdf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DD8BF6E.6D53930B@alcyone.com>

george wrote:

>    for max in range[CLA, RBW, BAG, MRB, NOG]:

This is not what you meant.  You're treating range (which is a builtin
function) as a mappable object, and subscripting it with a tuple.  I'm
not quite sure what you meant to do, but that sure wasn't it.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The great artist is the simplifier.
\__/ Henri Amiel
    CSBuddy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/csbuddy/
 A Counter-Strike server log file monitor in Python.


From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 27 10:57:51 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 15:57:51 GMT
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3de4eb7f$0$22216$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d at 4ax.com>, malik m wrote:

> #initialize variables
> totalMilesDriven = 0 #total miles driven
> 
> totalGallonsPerTank = 0 #total gallons per tank
> 
> counter = 0 #bogus counter

Here's a style hint:  Get rid of the comments above. 

 0) It's obvious you're initializing variables.  No comment
    required.

 1) You picked good names for the variables, so the comments
    describing the variables are just distractions.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Were these parsnips
                                  at               CORRECTLY MARINATED in
                               visi.com            TACO SAUCE?


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Nov 16 12:51:50 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:51:50 -0500
Subject: quick question
References: <mailman.1037458463.20139.python-list@python.org> <20021116120631.08993.00000062@mb-fo.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3DD685B6.DF1C65FF@engcorp.com>

Bwfc10 wrote:
> 
> Thank you for your help, it isn't
> homework but whats wrong with
> me asking on here when i do get homework?

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach
a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime..."

Nothing "wrong" from our point of view, except the
feeling we might be participating in activity that is
actually detrimental to your own development.  Isn't one 
supposed to do one's homework by oneself, generally,
to benefit from the learning involved?

>From your point of view, the "wrong" would obviously be
if you got a detailed answer which showed you *exactly*
how to do it, or even included actual code, rather than
merely pointing you in the right direction.

For example, your request was quite acceptable, but
the best response would be just "have you looked at the 
sort() method for lists?".

If you were then to experiment with sort, and you were
reasonably bright, you would quickly figure out a way
to use it to find the most popular flavour of ice cream.

If that answer were not enough for you, the next good
answer would probably be something like "have you worked
through the online tutorial yet?".

A better way of asking these questions is to try to come
up with your own solution, and then post your best attempt
with the question.  That way people can (a) help you 
along the path you've already chosen (if it could work),
and (b) get a feeling that you've taken more than two
seconds to think about this and that you've actually
*tried*.

Of course, this group being what it is, someone will 
almost always post a fully functional solution with
annotated source without even questioning whether that
will hurt you more than it will help. ;-)

I actually find that a little sad, personally...

-Peter


From paska at kios.sk  Fri Nov  8 03:42:59 2002
From: paska at kios.sk (Stano Paska)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:42:59 +0100
Subject: string.strip
Message-ID: <3DCB7913.8000801@kios.sk>

Hi,

in documentation: string.strip(s[, chars])
but in real life strip takes only 1 parameter

I have python 2.2.2

Stano.





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov  4 00:45:43 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 00:45:43 -0500
Subject: can't assign value to array element
References: <HoCdnRcDleGnR1igXTWcqg@ctc.net>
Message-ID: <JvadnXLwyY9MmlugXTWcpQ@comcast.com>

"Joe Heafner" <heafnerj at spam.vnet.net> wrote in message
news:HoCdnRcDleGnR1igXTWcqg at ctc.net...
> y = zeros(m, Float)

y is now array of m 0.0

> y[0] = b

reset first value to b
>
> for j in range(0,m,1):
...
>     y = y[j]

y is now a float.  This cannot be what you meant to do

>     y[j+1] = y+(k1+2.*k2+2.k3+k4)/6.

cannot index a float, hence message

> When run, this code give the error "TypeError: object does not
support
> item assignment" for hte next to last line. I presume the last line
would
> give the same error.

Yes, but only because you did same thing of rebinding name 't' to a
float.

> What am I doint wrong? I'd appreciate any  help.

Figure out what really want to do with t and y.  I suspect you want
tj = t[j]
yj= y[j]
and use tj and jy in code that follows in loop.

Terry J. Reedy




From lac at strakt.com  Sat Nov 30 05:05:12 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:05:12 +0100
Subject: Newbie Question: Aborting a Python script 
In-Reply-To: Message from Tom Nunamaker <tom@toshopDELETE.com> 
   of "Sat, 30 Nov 2002 03:44:51 CST." <MPG.1852449355ffd522989685@news.newsguy.com> 
References: <MPG.1852449355ffd522989685@news.newsguy.com> 
Message-ID: <200211301005.gAUA5Cen015458@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> How do you stop a script during execution?  Do I have to throw an error 
> like a divide by zero?  I didn't see any abort, stop, halt, etc type of 
> function.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tom
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

You want sys.exit.
See http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-sys.html
Laura Creighton



From drewp at bigasterisk.com  Sat Nov  2 20:45:41 2002
From: drewp at bigasterisk.com (Drew Perttula)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 17:45:41 -0800
Subject: tkinter bug? tk bug?
References: <apvaej$9ha$0@216.39.145.102>
Message-ID: <18f7875.0211021745.636774fe@posting.google.com>

"Michael Bakkemo" <a at b.c> wrote in message news:<apvaej$9ha$0 at 216.39.145.102>...
> I am not sure where things are going wrong, but binding to the "<Key>" and
> "<KeyRelease>" TK events seems to work fine except for the right side
> control and alt keys: the <Key> event hands me the correct values, but the
> <KeyRelease> event hands me the left side values. To wit:

# I made the code a lot shorter. I assume this still exhibits the
error:

import Tkinter

def KeyDown(ke):
    print "keydown:", ke.keysym_num, ke.keycode, ke.keysym

def KeyUp(ke):
    print "keyup:", ke.keysym_num, ke.keycode, ke.keysym

root = Tkinter.Tk()

root.bind("<Key>", KeyDown)
root.bind("<KeyRelease>", KeyUp)

root.mainloop()

> gives me the following when the right side Alt and Control keys are pressed
> and released.
> 
> >>>
> keydown: 65514 18 Alt_R
> keyup: 65513 18 Alt_L
> keydown: 65508 17 Control_R
> keyup: 65507 17 Control_L
> 
> 
> My question is, where (what level) are things going wrong? I doubt it is my
> code (but hey, what do I know) tkinter? the tk level? my keyboard driver?
> 

With the code above, I get good behavior on left and right control,
alt, and shift. Have you tried the 'xev' utility? That would help you
separate a
symbol list typo in tk, etc, from a funny keyboard mapping in your
windowing
system.

-Drew


From schaffer.SPAM at optonline.net  Fri Nov  1 12:52:28 2002
From: schaffer.SPAM at optonline.net (Les Schaffer)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:52:28 -0500
Subject: Wrapping a .dll under windows with SWIG
References: <8beb91f5.0210312226.7eb08c08@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <apuf10$50pp8$1@ID-147588.news.dfncis.de>

Ben C wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> I want to wrap a .dll under windows and have access to it's functions
> etc. The problem is that all I have is the .dll and header file ... no
> source ... 

i've successfully wrapped DLL files sans .lib files, by using function 
pointer table and  LoadLibrary() / GetProcAddress().

see the swig stuff for the PyGoldMine library at:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pygoldmine/
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pygoldmine/PyGoldMine/SWIG/
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pygoldmine/PyGoldMine/SWIG/gm5s32.i?rev=1.1&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup

  
Les Schaffer


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Sat Nov  9 20:33:22 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:33:22 GMT
Subject: [Jython] out of memory during jythonc compilation
Message-ID: <CHiz9.46580$Lg2.13026394@news2.news.adelphia.net>

I tried to compile a python file using the following options:

jythonc --deep --jar new.jar new.py

After cranking away for several minutes, it terminated with an "out of
memory" message, and suggested increasing the heap size with the "-mx"
option.  I then tried:

jythonc -J-mx1000000 --deep --jar new.jar new.py

And got the same error.  I then tried  50M instead of 1M for the heap size
and still go an "out of memory" error.  new.py pulls in the Jython XML
package structure, and the memory error always occurs right after
"processing codecs".  Anybody know what I might be able to do about this?

thx





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Nov 19 05:09:43 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:09:43 -0600
Subject: Simple Encryption
In-Reply-To: <ard013$obo$1@sp15at20.hursley.ibm.com> ("Bronek Carr"'s
 message of "Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:26:18 -0000")
References: <ard013$obo$1@sp15at20.hursley.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <m2of8lan14.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Bronek" == Bronek Carr <BCARR1 at uk.ibm.com> writes:

    Bronek> Hi all, I am trying to write a simple ROT-13 encryption
    Bronek> script in python.  A good starting point would be a
    Bronek> function which gets the ascii value of a character in a
    Bronek> string.  I would assume this function already exists in
    Bronek> one of the packages, as it does in every other language I
    Bronek> use.  I cannot find it if it does, can anyone help me.

ord is what you want:

>>> ord('a')
97

It's inverse is chr:

>>> chr(ord('a'))
'a'

Not to stop you from having fun, but just wanted to let you know that
rot13 is a built-in string encoding in recent versions of python 
>>> 'abc'.encode('rot13')
'nop'

John Hunter



From CousinStanley at HotMail.com  Wed Nov 20 10:54:54 2002
From: CousinStanley at HotMail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 08:54:54 -0700
Subject: quick question
References: <20021116051220.01520.00000047@mb-bk.aol.com><mailman.1037458463.20139.python-list@python.org><arc1p1$h5q7a$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de><mailman.1037669366.5507.python-list@python.org><arcnet$hakf3$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1037773531.11836.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <argavb$i5odg$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

John ...

Your counter class seems to work the best on my machine
of all the versions we've been through thus far
running about almost 30% faster than the original
normal loop version ...

Using the ~260,000 record [ 2.6 MB ] IceCream.txt file as input ...

    8.84 Seconds ... Original Normal Loop
    5.39 Seconds ... Original Normal Loop Psyco
    8.29 Seconds ... JH Map Psyco

    6.31 Seconds ... class counter
    4.01 Seconds ... class counter Psyco

   32.46 Seconds ... class counter letter freq
   11.20 Seconds ... class counter letter freq Psyco

These results are under Win98 First Edition
using a 250 MHz processor ...

The counter class code is nice and simple
and I think that applying the  read()  method
to the file to automagically end up with
input byte value frequencies is pretty slick ...

I haven't checked the Python CookBook yet
to see if anything similar to your counter class
is available there or not, but if it isn't, it should be ...

I think it's also worthwhile to emphasize
the Psyco binding improvements in all cases here,
especially as shown in the last 2 tests in the list above
where the Psyco version improvement is dramatic
and that is achieved with a single line of code ...

Thanks again for your help and feedback ...

Cousin Stanley




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 12 20:03:01 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:03:01 -0800
Subject: total and utter newbie
References: <pan.2002.11.12.23.36.32.644986@webmail.co.za> <mailman.1037145377.2807.python-list@python.org> <3DD1A2F3.1040802@cyberspace.org>
Message-ID: <3DD1A4C5.F5AE0857@alcyone.com>

trewornan wrote:

> Is there anything like a cast in Python? Just out of interest.

Casting can mean different things; certainly Python has conversion
functions, such as int, str, float, long, etc.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ God said:  "Let Newton be"; and all was light.
\__/ Alexander Pope
    Blackgirl International / http://www.blackgirl.org/
 The Internet resource for black women.


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 25 21:00:53 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 02:00:53 GMT
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <hridnc9yVpcaKX-gXTWcpg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <arukkl$meg$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:36:45 -0500, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

>
>"Jan Decaluwe" <jan at jandecaluwe.com> wrote in message
>news:3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9 at jandecaluwe.com...
>> Hi:
>>
>> I'm confused by the following behavior of new-style classes
>> and operators:
>
>I think you have a right to be.
>
>>
>>     class MyInt(object):
>>         def __init__(self, val):
>>             self.val = val
>>         def __getattr__(self, attr):
>>             return getattr(self.val, attr)
>
>> >>> a = MyInt(3)
>> >>> a.__add__(4)
>> 7
>
>This works because '__add__' is seen as just an attribute name,
>nothing special, which is resolved because of __gettattr__ booting
>attribute lookup to self.val.  As far as the interpreter is concerned,
>this might as well have been a.whatever(4).
>
>> >>> a + 4
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> TypeError: unsupported operand types for +: 'MyInt' and 'int'
>
>Lookup of special methods invoked by syntax other than explicit
>instance.attr appears to have been changed for new classes by stopping
>the lookup process before calling __getattr__.
>
>This appears to contradict the current new-class doc at
>http://python.org/2.2/descrintro.html
>
>"Note that while in general operator overloading works just as for
>classic classes, there are some differences. "
>
>Which are...?
>
>"(The biggest one is the lack of support for __coerce__; new-style
>classes should always use the new-style numeric API, which passes the
>other operand uncoerced to the __add__ and __radd__ methods, etc.) "
>
>what else?  but then
>
>"There's a new way of overriding attribute access.  The __getattr__
>hook, if defined, works the same way as it does for classic classes:
>it is only called if the regular way of searching for the attribute
>doesn't find it.  But you can now also override __getattribute__, a
>new operation that is called for *all* attribute references."
>
>But you found a difference in __getattr__.  Contrary to inplication of
>doc, __getattribute__ is also not called for a+4.  (Not a big loss
>since attempt to access any attribute, including .__dict__, causes
>infinite loop.)  I opened sf bug report 643841.
>
>>I don't think is can be the intention. Or can it?
>
>Beats me.  We'll see.
>
Adding some print statements:

 Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> class MyClassicInt:
 ...     def __init__(self, val):
 ...         self.val = val
 ...     def __getattr__(self, attr):
 ...         attv = getattr(self.val, attr)
 ...         print '--(old)--\n%s => %s\n%s\n--' % (
 ...             attr, attv, attv.__doc__ )
 ...         return getattr(self.val, attr)
 ...
 >>> class MyInt(object):
 ...     def __init__(self, val):
 ...         self.val = val
 ...     def __getattr__(self, attr):
 ...         attv = getattr(self.val, attr)
 ...         print '--(new)--\n%s => %s\n%s\n--' % (
 ...             attr, attv, attv.__doc__ )
 ...         return getattr(self.val, attr)
 ...
 >>> ci = MyClassicInt(3)
 >>> ci.__add__(4)
 --(old)--
 __add__ => <method-wrapper object at 0x007D7BB0>
 x.__add__(y) <==> x+y
 --
 7
 >>> ci + 4
 --(old)--
 __coerce__ => <method-wrapper object at 0x007D7BB0>
 x.__coerce__(y) <==> coerce(x, y)
 --
 7
 >>> ni = MyInt(3)
 >>> ni.__add__(4)
 --(new)--
 __add__ => <method-wrapper object at 0x007D7570>
 x.__add__(y) <==> x+y
 --
 7
 >>> ni + 4
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: unsupported operand types for +: 'MyInt' and 'int'
 >>>

Either way, the code looks different for the two cases:

 >>> from ut.miscutil import disev
 >>> disev('ci.__add__(4)')
           0 SET_LINENO               0
           3 LOAD_NAME                0 (ci)
           6 LOAD_ATTR                1 (__add__)
           9 LOAD_CONST               0 (4)
          12 CALL_FUNCTION            1
          15 RETURN_VALUE
 >>> disev('ci + 4')
           0 SET_LINENO               0
           3 LOAD_NAME                0 (ci)
           6 LOAD_CONST               0 (4)
           9 BINARY_ADD
          10 RETURN_VALUE

But apparently BINARY_ADD reacts differently to being supplied
with classic vs new style object as an argument together with int.

Apparently, with a classic object it tries to get a __coerce__ method.

Note that what comes back from getting the __add__ attribute from an object
*instance* is a bound method that acts like a callable object, and since
the attribute is gotten from self.val, which is an integer, the associated object
is an integer, even though the __getattr__ was supposedly a method of MyInt.
Hence passing the bound method an integer to add naturally works. An this works
the same for both types, when the attribute access is explicit.

When the __coerce__ method is returned, it is similarly bound to the self.val
value which is an int instance. So the coerce works.

If there is an actual __add__ method in the class, it is found before __getattr__
is tried for the new-style class:

 >>> def add(x,y):
 ...     print 'adding %s + %s' % (`x`,`y`)
 ...     return x.val + y
 ...
 >>> MyInt.__add__ = add
 >>> ni + 4
 adding <__main__.MyInt object at 0x007D7BB0> + 4
 7

(Note that __repr__ is found without resort to __getattr__ above).

But binary add works differently for the old:
 >>> MyClassicInt.__add__ = add
 >>> ci + 5
 --(old)--
 __coerce__ => <method-wrapper object at 0x00839730>
 x.__coerce__(y) <==> coerce(x, y)
 --
 8

The coerce succeeded and MyInt.__add__ never got involved.


Of course, explicitly you get there:

 >>> ci.__add__(6)
 --(old)--
 __repr__ => <method-wrapper object at 0x0083AC90>
 x.__repr__() <==> repr(x)
 --
 adding 3 + 6
 9

And of course,  we mustn't be fooled by the names:

 >>> b = MyInt('bbb')
 >>> b.__add__('x')
 adding <__main__.MyInt object at 0x00839730> + 'x'
 'bbbx'
 >>> b + 'x'
 adding <__main__.MyInt object at 0x00839730> + 'x'
 'bbbx'
 >>> del MyInt.__add__
 >>> b + 'x'
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: unsupported operand types for +: 'MyInt' and 'str'
 >>> b.__add__('x')
 --(new)--
 __add__ => <method-wrapper object at 0x00839D80>
 x.__add__(y) <==> x+y
 --
 'bbbx'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Nov 19 11:19:18 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:19:18 GMT
Subject: Python embedding question: how to expose a new "builtin"?
References: <ad9ea6f1.0211190807.73bfe1a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <awtC9.38553$Yw.1818910@news2.tin.it>

Rodrigo B. de Oliveira wrote:

> I've built an ISAPI module that allows .py files to be executed by IIS,
> everything is working fine and the performance is great. Now I want to
> expose an object in such a way that every imported module could see it, I
> tried the following code but it didn't quite work:
> 
> <snip language="C++">
> 
> PyObject* __builtin__ = PyImport_ImportModule("__builtin__");
> PyObject_SetAttrString(__builtin__, "application",
> (PyObject*)_pyapplication); Py_DECREF(__builtin__);
> 
> </snip>

This looks to me like the correct way to do what you ask.


> Notes:
>     * _pyapplication is an instance of a C new style class

What IS "a C new style class"...?


> The problem is: the modules can see the name "application" but
> dir(application) returns [] and if I try to access any of  application's
> attributes I get an AttributeError.
> 
> Thoughts?

Looks to me like the problem is with the _pyapplication object
rather than with the exposing of it in the built-ins module.  What happens 
if you architect another way to let Python code get at that same object?  
Does "is" show the two ways give the same object, and what are the
symptoms on e.g. dir for each?  I think you should get the same
results, confirming the problem is with the object and not with
the way you're choosing to expose it.


Alex



From claird at lairds.com  Mon Nov  4 21:10:22 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 02:10:22 -0000
Subject: loggin out automatically
References: <1036253358.19897.0@doris.uk.clara.net> <PYgtuoA9YVx9EwVx@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <usdc39rpvohtd5@corp.supernews.com> <3DC718BE.7060706@cyberspace.org>
Message-ID: <usea4eqqgbrped@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3DC718BE.7060706 at cyberspace.org>,
trewornan  <treworn at cyberspace.org> wrote:
>Cameron Laird wrote:
>> 
>> So:  did that make it clear?  No, you cannot use
>>   system("logout")
>> or a close variation to achieve what you want, but,
>> yes, there are several Python-based ways to write it.
>
>Yes I think I understand that although it seems a convoluted way to go 
>about things.
>
>I couldn't find anything any in the linux documentation which could do 
>it - PAM etc just doesn't seem to be into it.
>
>Thanks for your help
>
>M
>

Say again what you want:  is it automatically to limit
one particular user to a fixed session length?  Do you
have a collection of users you want to limit?  Do you
want to intervene before each action, or have them hap-
pen automatically?  Are the users logging in through
telnetd, sshd, ...?  Are they X consumers?  Precise 
understanding might reveal that this is less convoluted
than it currently appears.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Nov  5 13:10:34 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 10:10:34 -0800
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com> <aq6qun$ib4$0@216.39.172.122> <aq7a7l$v68$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211051010.66af1168@posting.google.com>

> Wondering why I didn't just write:
> 
>  >>> import re
>  >>> rx = re.compile(r'([()]|[^()]+)')
>  >>> class Addelim:
>  ...     def __init__(self, delim):
>  ...        self.parens=0; self.delim=delim
>  ...     def __call__(self, m):
>  ...         s = m.group(1)
>  ...         if s=='(': self.parens+=1
>  ...         if self.parens==1 and s==')':
>  ...             self.parens=0
>  ...             return s+self.delim
>  ...         if s==')': self.parens -=1
>  ...         return s
>  ...
>  >>> exp =  '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
> 
> It was natural to be able to specify the delimiter. And the + is probably
> better than the * on the non-paren "[^()]+" part of the pattern.

Not really. My benchmark gives essentially the same for "[^()]+*" and
"[^()]*", no sensible difference.

> Then using \n as delimiter to break into lines one can just print it.
> 
>  >>> print rx.sub(Addelim('\n'),exp)
>  (a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)
>  +f(s1)
> 
> Which you could also use like:
> 
>  >>> print rx.sub(Addelim('\n'),exp).splitlines()
>  ['(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)', '+f(s1)']
> 
> Or to get back to your original requirement,
> 
>  >>> print rx.sub(Addelim('\n'),exp).splitlines()[0]
>  (a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)
> 
> But I suspect it would run faster to let a regex split the string and then use
> a loop like yours on the pieces, which would be '(' or ')' or some other string
> that you don't need to look at character by character. E.g.,
> 
>  >>> rx = re.compile(r'([()])')
>  >>> ss = rx.split(exp)
>  >>> ss
>  ['', '(', 'a*', '(', 'b+c*', '(', '2-x', ')', '', ')', '+d', ')', '+f', '(', 's1', ')', '']
> 
> Notice that the splitter matches wind up at the odd indices. I think that's generally true
> when you put parens around the splitting expression, to return the matches as part of the list,
> but I'm not 100% certain. Anyway, you could make use of that, something like:
> 
>  >>>
>  >>> parens = 0
>  >>> endix = []
>  >>> for i in range(1,len(ss),2):
>  ...     if parens==1 and ss[i]==')':
>  ...         parens=0; endix.append(i+1)
>  ...     elif ss[i]=='(': parens += 1
>  ...     else:            parens -= 1
>  ...
>  >>> endix
>  [12, 16]
> 
> You could break the loop like you did if you just want the first expression,
> or you could grab it by
> 
>  >>> print ''.join(ss[:endix[0]])
>  (a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)
> 
> or list the bunch,
> 
>  >>> lo=0
>  >>> for hi in endix:
>  ...     print ''.join(ss[lo:hi])
>  ...     lo = hi
>  ...
>  (a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)
>  +f(s1)
> 
> or whatever. Which is not as slick, but probably faster if you had to do a bi-ig bunch of them.
> 
> I think when the fenceposts are simple, but you are mainly interested in the data between, splitting
> on a fencepost regex and processing the resulting list can be simpler and faster than trying to
> do it all with a complex regex.
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter


I strongly suspect that in this simple problem the simple approach is by far
the fastest.

Bye,

                           Michele


From jason at omeninternet.com.au  Mon Nov 18 23:58:23 2002
From: jason at omeninternet.com.au (Jason Friedland)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:58:23 +1100
Subject: AttributeError with 'time' module
References: <3dd9c16f$0$16997$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <3dd9c3eb$0$13151$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

Jason Friedland wrote:
> Hi there
> 
> I'm just starting out on Python so forgive me if this is a silly question.
> 
> I am attempting to make use of the time module (RH 7.3, Python 2.2.2) 
> and keep receiving the following error:
> 
> ----------------------
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'strftime'
> ----------------------
> 
> Upon running the script below:
> 
> ----------------------
> import time
> 
> def writeLogFile(message, file_name):
>     file_date = time.strftime('%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S', \
>     time.localtime(time.time()))
>     file_text = " - " + message
> 
>     try:
>         file = open(file_name, "a")
>     except:
>     print "Couldn't append to file!"
>         sys.exit()
> 
>     file.write(file_date)
>     file.write(file_text)
>     file.write("\n")
>     file.close()
> ----------------------
> 
> I have checked out the time module info at 
> http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.2/lib/module-time.html but this appears to 
>  be the correct usage.
> 
> Is there something I'm missing here?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Jason Friedland
> 

OK got it - there was a file named time.py in the same directory as the 
script I was trying to run.

Tsk tsk... schoolboy error.

Jason Friedland



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Nov 17 03:02:17 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 09:02:17 +0100
Subject: Calling local functions from the C API
References: <mailman.1037483907.16178.python-list@python.org> <m3n0o92lw1.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1037495664.30540.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m38yzsk4ja.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Jon Parise <jon at csh.rit.edu> writes:

> def SomeFunction():
>     pass
> 
> ... gets evaluated by PyRun_RunString().  Later on, I'd like to call
> SomeFunction from C (embedded Python interpreter).
> 
> Is that still not possible without playing with stack frames and such?

Ah, so you have a char* that has Python source code, and you want to
run a specific function in it.

For such questions, always ask yourself how you would achieve this
effect in pure Python, and then you'll see how to do it in C.

In Python, you could write

d = {}
exec sourcecode in d
func = d['SomeFunction']
func()

Now just do the same in C. Which of the four steps is unclear to you?

Regards,
Martin


From markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de  Fri Nov 29 07:35:28 2002
From: markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de (Markus von Ehr)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:35:28 +0100
Subject: py2exe and PIL prob
References: <3DE74619.497CB50C@ipm.fhg.de>
Message-ID: <3DE75F10.A02DECB0@ipm.fhg.de>

Now I've tried it with McMillans installer 5b4.
No problems at all.

Markus


Markus von Ehr schrieb:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am opening an image using PIL with:
> 
> from Image import *
> 
> self.mi = open(filename)
> 
> Everything is alright opening the images in two different programs.
> After using py2exe I have two cases/errors:
> 1.
> 
> File "Tkinter.pyc", line 1285, in __call__
> File "corr.pyc", line 178, in openImage
> File "Image.pyc", line 949, in open
> File "Image.pyc", line 204, in init
> File "ntpath.pyc", line 408, in abspath
> File "imputil.pyc", line 98 in _import_hook
> File "<string>", line 52, in _import_top_module
> File "imputil.pyc", line 207, in _import_top
> File "imputil.pyc", line 258, in _import_one
> File "<string>", line 161, in get_code
> File "Image.pyc", line 927, in open
> ValueError: bad mode
> 
> 2.
> Another program:
> Exception in TKinter callback
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "Tkinter.pyc", line 1285, in __call__
> File "BioChip.pyc", line 260, in Load
> File "Image.pyc", line 960, in open
> IOError: cannot identify image file
> 
> So everything is OK with the unpacked program, but after using py2exe
> it doesn't work any more.
> What can I do then? I want to create a shipping version.
> 
> Any hints?
> 
> Markus


From KZEMBOWER at jhuccp.org  Wed Nov 13 13:10:22 2002
From: KZEMBOWER at jhuccp.org (KEVIN ZEMBOWER)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:10:22 -0500
Subject: Raw Newbie: What's the "<?" tag and how can I learn more
	about it?
Message-ID: <sdd24f4b.003@ccp2.jhuccp.org>

Thank you, Alan, holger and Simon, for all your help.

The '%%' worked like a champ.

It never occurred to me that the author of ezmlm-browse would have written his own template system. Thank you for removing this source of frustration. Some of the files in the system are copyright Bruce Guenter, so I'll write to him with any further questions.

Thanks, again, for all your help.

-Kevin Zembower

>>> Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> 11/13/02 12:37PM >>>
KEVIN ZEMBOWER:

>> I've found templates which look like this:
>>     <? if body is None ?>
>>       <hr><strong>["%(type)s" not shown]</strong>
>>     <? else ?>
>>       <hr><table width="640">
>>       <tr><td>%(markup_urls(html(body)))s</td></tr>
>>       </table>
>>     <? end ?>
>>
>> Obviously, this is python code embedded in HTML, very similar to php in
>> HTML, with which I am more familiar. However, I can't find any
>> references to the "<?" tag system on the python.org web site.

As Simon mentioned already, that's because it's not part of core python,
it belongs to whatever template system ezmlm uses.

>> The specific problem I'm working on involves the line '<hr><table
>> width="640">'. I'd like to change the width to "100%", but the percent
>> sign must be interpreted as a special character. It causes strange
>> errors. I've tried escaping it with 'width="100\%"', but this doesn't
>> seem to work, either. Any help on this small problem?

I don't know for certain, but the "100%" may be being interpreted as a
python "format string". See these urls for information on format
strings.

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node9.html 
http://sandbox.mc.edu/~bennet/python/code/io.html 

IFF it is a format string, then the solution is to double up the % sign:
i.e. express it like so "<table width='100%%'>".

However, if that isn't the problem, I don't have any further suggestions
to make.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers 
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan 
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From joost_vanrooij.net  Mon Nov 18 11:05:59 2002
From: joost_vanrooij.net (Joost van Rooij)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:05:59 +0100
Subject: file upload via http
Message-ID: <3dd90ff4$0$46609$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Hello,

I would like to upload a picture (generated by a webcam) to be uploaded to
my website. I don't want to use the ftp protocol because of a firewall which
only allows me to connect via http.
I tried to do this using the code below but that didn't seem to work, can
somebody help me out?

Joost

import httplib

body = open("./image.jpg","r")
headers = {"Content-type": "multipart/form-data",
                  "Accept": "image/jpeg"}

conn = httplib.HTTPConnection("www.server.net:80")
conn.request("POST", "/showme/picture/upload.php",body , headers)

response = conn.getresponse()
print response.status, response.reason
conn.close()






From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov  4 07:59:43 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:59:43 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov  4)
Message-ID: <uscrpv7q1icb00@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "This newsgroup is friendlier than most.  We only require 5 hours
of Googleing before you can ask a question!  ;-)."  Manuel M. Garcia

"Python resists making major library decisions preferring to leave it to
the individual, while Perl's 'first-through-the-gate-naming' wins the
standard."  Emile van Sebille

"PyChecker is at revision 0.8.11, but don't let that fool you, it is very
usable and finds an amazing array of Python coding errors."  Manuel M. Garcia 


Articles and threads
    Barry A. Warsaw talks about the Python mailing list/newsgroup
    gateway problems which explain the erratic traffic for the past
    week or so:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1035997172.19952.python-list%40python.org

    Michael Hudson suggests an approach (and then an improvement) for
    doing interactive and iterative development, a sort of module
    reload on steroids which uses metaclasses:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=m2pttq8yaa.fsf%40python.net

    A question about the future of Jython results in informative and
    reassuring responses:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3dc18ae0%240%2484941%24e4fe514c%40dreader4.news.xs4all.nl

    A question about "protecting" Python source from prying eyes leads
    to a discussion of the pros and cons of deliberate obfuscation
    vs. licensing:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=aq3dsg%24l0s%241%40news.netpower.no

Software
    SpamBayes, a Python-based spam filtering solution which uses
    a Bayesian approach to analyzing incoming messages, has reached an
    early stage where it can be used, via the command line, a POP3
    intermediary, or Outlook 2000:
        http://spambayes.sourceforge.net/
        http://spambayes.sourceforge.net/applications.html

    PyNassi, a program structure chart editor and debugger written
    with and for Python, reaches version 1.2:
        http://www.ingo-linkweiler.de/diplom/

    Albatross is a small, flexible Python system for developing
    stateful Web applications:
        http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/

    PiP attempts to wed python with PHP, in the form of a Python
    extension in PHP:
        http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/projects/pip/

    Jeremy Hylton announces the final releases of ZODB 3.1, an object
    database for Zope that provides transactional persistence, and ZEO
    2.0, a client-server system which uses it:
        http://www.zope.org/Products/StandaloneZODB
        http://www.zope.org/Products/ZEO
        http://sourceforge.net/projects/zodb

    Python-DSV is a module for importing and exporting delimiter
    separated values, a generalization of comma separated value (CSV)
    formats:
        http://python-dsv.sourceforge.net/

    Psyche is an attempt to combine the best qualities of Python with
    those of Scheme (a Lisp-like language):
        http://www.xs4all.nl/~yduppen/site/psyche.html

Resources
    Ironically, at PHPCon, it emerges that Rackspace, which heavily
    relied on PHP in getting off the ground, is converting a large
    portion of their code to Python (as reported in Jeremy Zawodny's
    Web log):
        http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/000282.html

    The Python 2.3a0 development version of the documentation has been
    updated:
        http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/


========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
        http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/summaries/
        http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

    The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
    what AI can generate
        http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

    Tenth International Python Conference 
        http://www.python10.org            

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.



From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 18:06:28 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:06:28 GMT
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <mailman.1038414274.6010.python-list@python.org> <slrnauaif6.1gv.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <vs7auu07opjlv8enekpde94kfo241tnr5a@4ax.com> <mailman.1038429579.8127.python-list@python.org> <5ddauu0k5mffu8kfmrto430d0inhonn8bu@4ax.com> <kidauu06bd4d8l9fth8sue4ckp0d4n5tbl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnauak72.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

malik m <malik_martin at hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:16:19 GMT, malik m <malik_martin at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:38:34 -0600, John Hunter
>><jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> "malik" == malik m <malik_martin at hotmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>    malik> i didnt to import that yet but i will try even tho i think
>>>    malik> the program did what i want it to:)
>>>
>>>What do you think your mpg is if you drive 3 miles on a tank that
>>>holds 2 gallons?  What does your program tell you it is .....
>>>
>>>John Hunter
>>
>>
>>hmm yea i see what you're saying... ok i'll put it in.
> 
> 
> yea i see now. this is one of the new features of 2.2.2 that my deitel
> book told me about isnt it? is the deitel boook that bad? 
> i know that the end of chapter tests are getting rediculously hard and
> they are testing me on things they havent even taught me. i dont think
> this is for a newbie, this book...

I would recommend the book _How to Think Like a Computer Scientist_:

    http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/

which you can read entirely on-line, for free!

The reason I would recommend this book is because programming is more
than just learning the basics of if/else statements and while loops. One
of the most important programming skills to learn is problem analysis:
looking at a problem ("Hmm, I want to write a program that will
calculate miles per gallon") and figuring out not just one way to do it,
but several ways to do it, and deciding which way is best. ("I could ask
the user to type in the mileage and the gallons. But what if he already
has that information in a file? Or what if he wants not just the average
miles per gallon, but also a graph of the different miles/gallon rates
he got at different times? And...")

Programming is more of an art or a craft than a science. (That's why one
of the most famous books in computer science is called "The Art of
Computer Programming"!) There are skills, ways of thinking about
problems, that can be taught, although they are best refined by
experience. This book -- _How to Think Like a Computer Scientist_ --
attempts to teach those skills.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 27 04:43:17 2002
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 01:43:17 -0800
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <698f09f8.0211261046.582254a5@posting.google.com> <3DE40E21.A547F49E@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0211270143.5a3b9f0f@posting.google.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<3DE40E21.A547F49E at alcyone.com>...
> Jeremy Fincher wrote:
> 
> > The biggest problem with filter, map, and reduce is that they're
> > functions, not methods.
> 
> But since they can operate on _any_ sequence, this makes the most sense.

Since they operate on any sequence, they should be methods of any
sequence.  As functions, yes, they operate on all sequences, but they
only return lists.  As methods, map/filter would return sequences of
the same type they operated on, which is (IMO) far more appropriate.

In short, why should a map on a string return a list instead of a
string?  Why should a filter on a binary tree return a list instead of
another binary tree?

> But there are several other things that can act as sequence objects,
> such as strings, tuples, or user-defined types that don't derive from
> list but define a __getitem__ method.  filter, map, and reduce really do
> belong in the realm of standalone functions, not methods, because they
> can apply to any type that _acts_ as a list, whether or not it is a
> list, a builtin sequence, or even something which at first sight doesn't
> appear to be a sequence type at all (but acts the part).

But I think it would be more appropriate for map/filter to return
sequences of the same type as their argument sequences, not just
return lists blindly.  And that requires that map/filter be methods,
not functions over sequences.

Jeremy


From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 26 05:36:00 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:36:00 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <arsni0$pnk$1@news.netpower.no> <slrnau4sle.9as.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <7h365uksju6.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:

> In article <arsni0$pnk$1 at news.netpower.no>, David Brown wrote:
> 
> >> I never liked filter, map and reduce.
> 
> So don't use them. ;)

It's not quite that simple of course.  If you're unlucky enough, every
now and then you read code SOMEONE ELSE wrote!

They're all fine in simple cases, but some of the most tortous Python
code I've seen invloved artificially -- and probably fruitlessly --
stuffing code into calls to map in a quest for performance.  Shudder.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  If Unicode is a horde of zombies with flaming dung sticks, 
  the hideous intricacies of JIS, Chinese Big-5, Chinese 
  Traditional, KOI-8, et cetera are at least an army of ogres 
  with salt and flensing knives.        -- Eric S. Raymond, python-dev


From hansgeunsmeyer at earthlink.net  Tue Nov 19 10:39:45 2002
From: hansgeunsmeyer at earthlink.net (hg)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 07:39:45 -0800
Subject: Fast construction of Python list from large C array of int's   -  Extension Module
References: <mailman.1037647226.1409.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95959723.0211190739.27aaed7e@posting.google.com>

quadric at primenet.com wrote in message news:<mailman.1037647226.1409.python-list at python.org>...

> Is this the fastest way to do this?

It will probably be a bit faster if you use PyList_SETITEM instead of
PyList_SetItem.  Since you're creating a brand new list, it's safe to
use the macro. (The macro just plugs in the new values, without
checking that the list is really a PyList, without checking for buffer
over/underflow, and without trying to decrease the ref count of an old
list item.)

> Any inherent dangers here?

As Alex already pointed out, you definitely have to check that neither
your list nor any of the PyLongs is NULL.

Hans


From costanza at web.de  Sun Nov 10 17:09:05 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:09:05 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

David Garamond wrote:
> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
[...]

> yes, that's good and all. the only problem is, most people _don't 
> like_it. they are _allergic_ to ((())). so what gives? the things that 
> will make them like:
> 
>  (+ 1 1)
> 
> over (or the same as):
> 
>  1+1
> 
> are probably only brain surgery and heavy brainwashing.

...or some nice examples. ;)

 > (+ 1 1)
2

 > (+ 1 1 1)
3

 > (+ 1 1 1 2)
5

 > (+ 2)
2

 > (+)
0

 > (*)
1

The last two examples are a bit strange - why would you want to apply 
"+" to no arguments? Well, this can be very handy when you want to 
generate code in one part of your program (for example, in macros), but 
you don't want to care about special cases that may occur wrt number of 
arguments.

Now, let's go on - "funcall" takes a function and applies it to the 
remaining arguments.

 > (funcall '+ 1 1 1)
3

 > (funcall '* 2 3)
6

...and so on. Now here is another nice macro.

(defmacro apply-operators (op-list arg-list)
     `(loop for op in ',op-list
            do (format t " ~A: ~A~%" op (funcall op , at arg-list))))

* Remember that macros get code as input and generate code as output. 
(See another recent post of mine.)

* ` means: create a list but evaluate everything that's marked with a , 
or ,@

* ',op-list means: evaluate op-list when processing this macro, but 
quote the result (regard it as data, not code) in the code that is 
generated. (See below.)

* ,@ evaluates what follows, unwraps one pair of parentheses and inserts 
the result in the surrounding list

* (format t ...) produces formatted output on standard output. ~A means: 
take one argument and print it. ~% means: start a new line.

So here is an application.

 > (apply-operators (+ * min max) (5 4 6 3 7))
  +: 25
  *: 2520
  min: 3
  max: 7

You can always take a look at the code a specific macro produces.

 > (macroexpand-1 '(apply-operators (+ * min max) (5 4 6 3 7)))
(loop for op in '(+ * min max)
       do (format t " ~A: ~A~%" op (funcall op 5 4 6 3 7)))


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk  Wed Nov 27 04:35:59 2002
From: chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk (Chris Lyon)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 01:35:59 -0800
Subject: Browser differences Mozilla v IE
Message-ID: <d232c5e.0211270135.564df238@posting.google.com>

I've been developing CGI python scripts for generating web pages which
are served from IIS. I've been viewing them from IE successfully for
sometime now.
I've just downloaded and installed Mozilla and when I try to run the
same pages from Mozilla it trys to download them and run them in a DOS
window.
 I'm rateh confused can anyone shed any light on where I should be
tweaking to sort this out?


From heafnerj at spam.vnet.net  Tue Nov 19 20:53:34 2002
From: heafnerj at spam.vnet.net (Joe Heafner)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:53:34 -0600
Subject: static variables?
References: <InCdnbV-jZTSfkegXTWcrg@ctc.net> <3DDAE658.49A129DE@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <fLqcnUxYMJSDdkegXTWcpw@ctc.net>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> Check the other thread going on right now with exactly the same subject.
>
Got it. Thanks.

JH



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 18 15:18:04 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 20:18:04 GMT
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037609785.2132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arbhts$muq$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:57:52 -0800, Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> wrote:

>Michael Stenner wrote:
>> I feel like we're going around in circles here.  I'm talking about
>> python.  It looks like 'inline' would produce serious speedups in some
>> cases.  Therefore, it looks like an inline command would not be
>> useless.
>
>Doing this would be almost impossible because Python name binding is
>done at runtime. For example, how would you compile this?
>
True, binding is done at runtime, but ISTM an alternate binding mechanism is
conceivable. I.e., the purpose of inlining is typically to generate a code
sequence "in line" where the source is apparently calling the inline function,
binding what would otherwise be the parameter names in function body directly
to the arguments and avoiding the whole call rigamarole -- which is significant
overhead in Python.

The question is, what kind of object would a *compiled* inline function have to be
to be used in Python analogy to that? I.e., what if you had a mutable code body type,
where there would be mutable slots corresponding to places where function parameters
were referenced? Let's how that could be used in your examples...

>if random.choice([0, 1]):
>    from foo import baz # baz is an inline function
>else:
>    from bar import baz # baz is an inline function
>
Either way, baz would be a mutable code body with no parameter slots.

>
>def my_func():
>    baz()
my_func would just get the baz code body at def time. Note that inline
means global references if any go to the global name space of the my_func def environment.

>
>Or this?
>
>inline def foo():
>    ....
>
>inline def bar():
>    ....
>
>def my_func()
>    foo()
>    globals['foo'] = bar
>    foo()
at def-time, globals()['foo'] is not dynamically touched, so you get

def my_func()
    <foo body>
    globals()['foo'] = bar # I assume you meant the ()
    <foo body>

the result of a my_func() call would do whatever <foo body> implies, plus rebind
the global foo at run time to the inline bar mutable code object (which a subsequent
def could "call" and get inlined into itself).

>
>
>Or this?
>
>from bar import baz # baz is an inline function
>
baz would be bound to a mutable code body
>def my_func()
>    ....
>    return baz # the fact that baz is inline isn't known at compile time
>
my_func would just return the reference.


What's more interesting is

def(inline) times_ten(x):
    return x*10

then

    def my_func(y):
        return times_ten(y)

should get the body of times_ten with the reference to x changed to y
E.g., looking at current code:

 >>> def times_ten(x):
 ...     return x*10
 ...
 >>> dis.dis(times_ten)
           0 SET_LINENO               1

           3 SET_LINENO               2
 _______________________________________________    <<-- mutable code body
/                                               \  
           6 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)     |   <<--mutable code parameter slot x gets replaced
           9 LOAD_CONST               1 (10)    |
          12 BINARY_MULTIPLY                    |
\_______________________________________________/
          13 RETURN_VALUE
          14 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
          17 RETURN_VALUE

 >>> def my_func(y):
 ...     return times_ten(y)
 ...
 >>> dis.dis(my_func)
           0 SET_LINENO               1

           3 SET_LINENO               2
 ____________________________________________________
/                                                    \ <<-- replaced at def time if times_ten
           6 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (times_ten)  | <<-- is mutable code body at def time
           9 LOAD_FAST                0 (y)          | <<-- actual parameter y ref replaces (x)
          12 CALL_FUNCTION            1              | <    in mutable code slot when body is substituted
\____________________________________________________/
          15 RETURN_VALUE
          16 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
          19 RETURN_VALUE

This is just HOTTOMH, but I think there is something there.
Note that this is not a source macro operation.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Nov 11 09:45:08 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:45:08 +0100
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
In-Reply-To: <uel9sryab.fsf@scientia.com>; from Paul_Rudin@scientia.com on Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 02:11:56PM +0000
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037014155.15486.python-list@python.org> <uel9sryab.fsf@scientia.com>
Message-ID: <20021111154508.U30315@prim.han.de>

Paul Rudin wrote:
> >>>>> "hk" == holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:
>  hk> Paul Rudin wrote:
>  >>  I'm having a little play with python, just to try it out; and one
>  >> thing that I find I miss from other languages is something like
>  >> lisp's if:
>  >> 
>  >> (if x y z)
>  >> 
>  >> which returns y if x is true and z otherwise.
>  >> 
>  >> I realise that I can define a function that does this for me; but
>  >> is there a succinct way of expressing this in the base language?
> 
>  hk> for me
> 
>  hk>   x and y or z
> 
>  hk> basically does what you want.  But you *need* to be sure that 'y'
>  hk> is true.  some people don't like this 'abuse' but many use it on
>  hk> a regular basis (without big problems i'd say).
> 
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> Yes, there are circumstances where this looks ok; but I'm a bit uneasy
> with this idiom. The main problems being:
> 
> - (as you say) you need to depend on the value of y;

yes.

> - potentially both y and z are evaluated; and

no.  more precisely, only 

    if x is true and y is false 
        is z also considered.

which referes back to the previous point.

> - there's a degree of obfuscation here, the code is less
>   comprehensible than something like: if x then y else z.

IMO it's not overly hard to get used to it. It certainly
isn't as evident (as has the aforementioned pitfall) as
in some other languages.  Funny enough, i don't need this
ternary operation often. 

And if one the expressions is more complex i use a proper
if-clause.

regards,

    holger



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Nov 18 18:32:09 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 00:32:09 +0100
Subject: return values for exceptions
References: <slrnat0g6s.2pf.nthomas@shine.cise.ufl.edu>
Message-ID: <m38yzqh2ti.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"N. Thomas" <nthomas at cise.ufl.edu> writes:

> I suppose that I could trap the exception, and then return a value based on
> that, but I'm not too sure if that is the right way to go about doing it.

That is the right way. You can either use sys.exit, or raise
SystemExit, with the status you want to get out of Python. Returning 1
for an uncaught is hard-coded in Python.

Regards,
Martin



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Nov 17 12:07:57 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:07:57 -0500
Subject: Uninstalling Python 2.1.3 hosed Outlook Express
In-Reply-To: <IbLB9.14796$Hs2.2302388@kent.svc.tds.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEENCMAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Edward K. Ream]
> I just did a vanilla uninstall of Python 2.1.3, which was
> installed normally from Python-2.1.3.exe a few days ago without
> "rollback", IIRC.  Afterwards the file msoe.dll could not be
> initialized, so Outlook Express could not be run.  No big deal;

It would be to me, *if* there were a plausible connection.  But there are no
other reports of this (or anything like it), and the PLabs installer doesn't
muck with any system DLLs apart from msvcrt.dll.  The latter is refcounted
by MS's software, so would not be deleted unless nothing was using it
anymore; even then, the uninstaller would pop up a dialog box asking whether
you wanted to delete it.

> downloading and installing the OE service pack appears to have fixed
> everything.  Thought someone would like to know.  I'm using XP,
> the latest service packs.

I've noted it, but you should assume the problem was due to something
lse  -- I do <wink>.




From steve at ferg.org  Sat Nov 30 09:16:03 2002
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 30 Nov 2002 06:16:03 -0800
Subject: ANN: EasyGui version 0.5
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0211300616.32312f55@posting.google.com>

I've just released easygui version 0.5
It is available at http://www.ferg.org/easygui

This version fixes some minor infelicities, and adds a new  feature
called "integerbox" to support getting an integer value from a user.

For those not familiar with EasyGui, here is an excerpt from the
documentation:

******************************

Experienced Pythonistas need support for quick and dirty GUI features.
New Python programmers need GUI capabilities that don't require any
knowledge of tkinter, frames, widgets, callbacks or lambda. This is
what EasyGui provides.   Using EasyGui, all GUI interactions are
invoked by simple function calls.

EasyGui is different from other GUIs in that it is NOT event-driven. 
It allows  you to program in a traditional linear fashion, and to put
up dialogs for simple  input and output when you need to. If you are
new to the event-driven paradigm  for GUIs, EasyGui will allow you to
be productive with very basic tasks immediately. Later, if you wish to
make the transition to an event-driven GUI  paradigm, you can move to
an event-driven style with a more powerful GUI package such as anygui,
PythonCard, Tkinter, wxPython, etc. EasyGui is there just to do very
basic stuff.   More elaborate stuff should be done with more powerful
tools.

Here is a code snippet using EasyGui.

    msg ="What is your favorite flavor?"
    title = "Ice Cream Survey"
    choices = ["Vanilla", "Chocolate", "Strawberry", "Rocky Road"]
    choice = choicebox(msg, title, choices)
	
    # note that we convert choice to string, in case
    # the user cancelled the choice, and we got None.
    msgbox("You chose: " + str(choice), "Survey Result")


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Thu Nov 14 18:08:36 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:08:36 -0800
Subject: update tkinter window
In-Reply-To: <20021114215941.GA8100@4j.lane.edu>
References: <20021114215941.GA8100@4j.lane.edu>
Message-ID: <200211142308.PAA08002@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Thursday 14 November 2002 13:59, Roger wrote:
> I've been messing with tkinter a little.
> I was trying to just come up with a window that would show the current
> time.
> stealing some code from examples, I came up with:

[snipped]

Here is my quick rewrite which probably does what you want:


from time import localtime, strftime
from Tkinter import *

class myclock(Frame):
   def update_stats(self):
       self.contents.set(strftime("%H:%M:%S",localtime()))
       self.after(self.msecs, self.update_stats)
       return

   def __init__(self, msecs=1000):
      Frame.__init__(self)
      self.msecs=msecs

      self.contents=StringVar()
      self.entry=Entry(textvariable=self.contents)
      self.entry.pack()

      self.update_stats()
      return

m = myclock( msecs=1000 )
m.pack()
m.mainloop()


> ------------------------------------------------------------
> the problem is the window keeps adding a new time making the window ever
> increasing in size.

Because you were calling pack() in the update_stats() method, which caused it 
to pack again.  You could have forgot() the widget first, and then packed it, 
but that was unnecessary.  As you see, I packed the Entry in the __init__, so 
that it only occurs *once* when 'myclock' is created, and so doesn't pack 
repeatedly in the Frame.

Some notes:

I also create the Entry to refer to the StringVar immediately.  Then, 
whenever you update the StringVar, using set, the Entry widget automatically 
updates.

It is almost *NEVER* a good idea for a widget to pack() itself in its own 
__init__ method.  It is error prone, and makes it hard to reuse your widget.  
When you subclass Frame, you are saying that your new class *IS* a Frame, and 
will behave like a Frame (and could be used everywhere a Frame is used).  
Frames do not pack() themselves, and neither should you.  The code that 
creates myclock() should pack it (or grid it, etc.), like it would any other 
frame.  (when I started with Tkinter, I did the same thing as you, and had to 
painfully unlearn that technique)


-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Wed Nov 27 20:57:18 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:57:18 -0800
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <mailman.1038414274.6010.python-list@python.org> <m2r8d67np1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <200211280809.01424.bhards@bigpond.net.au> <mailman.1038433013.1207.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u5t3sa.854.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

John Hunter fed this fish to the penguins on Wednesday 27 November 2002 
01:35 pm:

>>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> writes:
> 
>     Brad> How far is a mile? How much is a gallon?
> 
> A mile is approx 1.7048275260088487e-13 light years.
>
        According to my HP 48SX, it is 1.70111428361E-13 light years.
(though it also seems to have MiUS -- 1.70111768584E-13).

        One mile is also 1.609344E18 Fermi
 
> A gallon is a half a peck.
>
        Isn't a peck a "dry" measure?
 
> The units aren't terribly important for this problem.

        Other than the strange aspect that metric users tend to reverse the 
nature of the units... Rather than distance/volume I often saw 
volume/distance (litres/km for instance)

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From shannon at centre.edu  Thu Nov  7 13:38:44 2002
From: shannon at centre.edu (CShannon)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 10:38:44 -0800
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <m27kfsm2x8.fsf@python.net> <aq8qbh$ik0$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1036539728.6381.python-list@python.org> <ZI6y9.77441$aL4.2400685@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036590550.21817.python-list@python.org> <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <815e8a38.0211071038.208c7577@posting.google.com>

I am a college professor and use Python as the language in our first
course -- designed for both majors and non-majors alike.  There are a
number of good python reference books around.  Most of them are not
appropriate as text books however because they have few examples and
often no exercises.  I like a book that is moderate in size.  Books
often have more material than can be covered in a single semester but
it shouldn't be so large (or expensive) as to intimidate all but the
bravest of souls.  In my course, students are also expected to buy a
text dealing with social/ethical issues.

I realize the problem of course.  In my class we do cover all the
introductory material, and object oriented programming, but we also
use VPython for graphics and write some cgi scripts to process html
forms. Selecting exactly the topics to satisfy very diverse topics
without writing an enormous text is not easy.
 
benalan at cs.bu.edu (Ben Wiedermann) wrote in message news:<d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f at posting.google.com>...
> "Chris Gonnerman" <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036590550.21817.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> > Textbooks aren't designed to be entertaining, true; but frankly
> > I found it painful to read in the final form.  The content isn't
> > the first thing one notices about a book; rather it's the 
> > presentation (cover, art, paper, etc.)
> 
> I was one of the authors of the Deitel book; but just to be clear: I
> am speaking as a Python evangelist. I am not speaking for any of my
> coauthors or for my employer. That being said...
> 
> One of the major goals for the book was to try to push Python down
> into CS1 courses, where I believe it deserves far more consideration
> than it currently receives. Our hope was that the book would
> demonstrate to professors how well suited Python is as a first
> programming language *and* how easy it is for novice programmers to
> create more complex applications (e.g., GUI, multimedia, etc.).
> 
> However, I've noticed that most of the post-publication criticism of
> the book has focused on issues like presentation, art, etc. It's not
> my job to dispute these claims. I personally believe that an author
> should stay out of subjective discussions of his book, once that book
> has been published. But I still very much believe in the promise of
> Python in the university. And because the Deitel book is the only
> college textbook of which I am aware, I wanted to get some feedback on
> what would make a more successful Python textbook. How high does
> presentation rank when considering a book? Are there examples of other
> college textbooks that people think do an excellent job in the
> presentation department? What kinds of materials can we (as a
> community) produce to get schools to consider and adopt Python as a
> first programming language? Any other thoughts on Python in the
> university?


From ccashman at attbi.com  Mon Nov 25 21:39:01 2002
From: ccashman at attbi.com (Colin Cashman)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:39:01 GMT
Subject: Determining if a string is base64 or uu encoded?
Message-ID: <99BE9.139964$nB.11463@sccrnsc03>

Is there a function that given a string or file (or Message, etc.) will 
determine whether the string or file is encoded, and if so, what type of 
encoding that is (base64 vs. uuencoding)?

Thanks in advance!

	Colin

-- 
I am Jack's obfuscated source code.



From tracy at reinventnow.com  Tue Nov 26 09:12:07 2002
From: tracy at reinventnow.com (Tracy Ruggles)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 06:12:07 -0800
Subject: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <9PvekLArvL49Ewa2@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <arqrso$b2j$1@wheel2.two14.net> <8cmrra.qvc.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <QinE9.70119$Yw.3331389@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <dd32f595.0211260612.9eedf75@posting.google.com>

MacOS X 10.2.2 -- 867Mhz G4 -- Python 2.2.1

[~/Desktop] tsr% python2.2 aa.py 
for loop took 5.00
list comprehension took 6.41
map took 4.02
[~/Desktop] tsr% python2.2 aa.py
for loop took 4.97
list comprehension took 6.42
map took 4.08
[~/Desktop] tsr% python2.2 -O aa.py
for loop took 4.91
list comprehension took 6.35
map took 4.03
[~/Desktop] tsr% python2.2 -O aa.py
for loop took 4.91
list comprehension took 6.33
map took 3.99

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<QinE9.70119$Yw.3331389 at news2.tin.it>...
> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>    ...
> >         Well, to add some more embers... Two runs under Mandrake 8.2, on a
> > 733MHz P-III with RDRAM (Dell XPS B733r), Python 2.2, using the program
> > listed above.
> > 
    [ ... ]
> > [wulfraed at beastie wulfraed]$ python t.py
> > for loop took 7.61 to make a list of 500000 items
> > list comprehension took 7.31 to make a list of 500000 items
> > map took 6.85 to make a list of 500000 items
> 
> And Mandrake 9.0, 1.33 GHz AMD Athlon, and 266-MHz DDR :
> 
> [alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.2 -O aa.py
> for loop took 2.87 to make a list of 500000 items
> list comprehension took 2.75 to make a list of 500000 items
    [ ... ]
> map took 2.47 to make a list of 500000 items
> [alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.3 -O aa.py
> for loop took 2.33 to make a list of 500000 items
> list comprehension took 2.32 to make a list of 500000 items
> map took 1.61 to make a list of 500000 items


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov 16 17:24:46 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 23:24:46 +0100
Subject: Calling local functions from the C API
References: <mailman.1037483907.16178.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3n0o92lw1.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Jon Parise <jon at csh.rit.edu> writes:

> I'm familiar with calling functions using PyObject_CallObject().
> I generally use PyImport_ImportModule() to import a callable object
> from some module before executing it.
> 
> However, I'm unclear as to how to go about getting a callable object
> from the current local scope (i.e. not from a named module).
> 
> Help, please. =)

By "local scope", do you mean as in "local variable"? I.e. you do

def foo():
  def bar()
    pass
  myext.somefunc()

and then you want the somefunc, which is implemented in C, to access
bar??? That isn't supported. It is possible, but you will have to read
the source yourself to find out how to do it.

Instead, I recommend that you do

  myext.somefunc(bar)

instead, i.e. passing the callable as an argument to the extension.

Regards,
Martin



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Fri Nov  8 16:59:12 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 13:59:12 -0800
Subject: Ethics in abstract disciplines (was: Making a better textbook (was  Re: The Deitel book))
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f@posting.google.com> <815e8a38.0211071038.208c7577@posting.google.com> <slrnasle4n.7kt.charles@homer.pentek.org> <usnhbbotggus7c@corp.supernews.com> <3DCBD7DE.E132BD77@hotmail.com> <7h3smycxeau.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211081359.876e379@posting.google.com>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in message news:<7h3smycxeau.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>...
> Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
> > These days, is there such a thing as a mathematics course that doesn't
> > involve extensive exposure to Computer Science?
> 
> Yes, the one I did at Cambridge (UK) had very little CS content (there
> were computer projects in the second and third years but you could
> ignore them if you chose to -- I didn't, but I know people who did).
> I think I could have attended three hours of lectures on how to
> program in Pascal (I *did* ignore those -- my projects were a bizarre
> melange of Python, Haskell and Common Lisp tied together by bash
> scripts).
> 
> I graduated in 2000; I don't think much has changed since ('cept it
> might be C and not Pascal now).
> 
> Cheers,
> M.

When I was studying Physics at the University of Padua (in the nineties)
we had an official booklet of the faculty with advices about the choice of 
non-mandatory courses. I still remember the sentence about computer science
courses. Translating quite literally from Italian it reads something like 
"In no case plans of studies involving CS courses from other faculties 
will be accepted by this Physics commission". I would not be surprised if
this politics was still enforced.

In more ten years of Physics (including the Ph.D.) I never had a single 
course about programming (excluding maybe two or three seminars in one of 
the laboratory course I had, but they were unofficial, not part of the course; 
we also had computer hours in the afternoon, but unofficial and not mandatory).

It could seems strange to somebody, but personally I second that politics.
Programming is a nice thing you can do for fun by yourself, but the 
University has to teach you the real thing, not to spend your time on
other topics. Whereas it is true that lots of physicist (and mathematicians) 
spend a lot of time on computers for their research, it is also true that 
there still many researchers which can completely avoid the computer (I
am one of them). 

I think that, at least in Europe, most of Physics and Mathematics course 
still do not involve extensive exposure to Computer Science. 

And this is a good thing.


--
Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Mon Nov 18 17:56:43 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:56:43 +0000
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <7vritu48rhphl04peeapus5vf425877idm@4ax.com>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:49:15 GMT, "Richard Dillingham"
<shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Kind of like we have multiple assignments in a line (oldx,oldy=x,y), what do
>you think of the ability to have multiple tests in an if statement with only
>one == or >=.
>
>This would mean that lines like the following:
>if posx>=coords[0] and posy>=coords[1] and posx<=coords[2] and
>posy<=coords[3]:
>
>Could be rewritten like so:
>if posx,posy>=coords[0],coords[1] and posx,posy<=coords[2],coords[3]
>
>

Hmm, can't you do that already with tuples? It is just an extra pair of
parenthesis...

All the best,
Gon?alo Rodrigues


From herrn at gmx.net  Thu Nov  7 18:19:17 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 23:19:17 GMT
Subject: default argument depending on another argumen?
References: <aqeqff$92dk3$2@ID-165840.news.dfncis.de> <slrnaslroa.kf.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <aqesdk$99ksf$2@ID-165840.news.dfncis.de>

Gerhard H?ring schrieb im Artikel <slrnaslroa.kf.gerhard.haering at lilith.my-fqdn.de>:
> Marco Herrn wrote in comp.lang.python:
>> I want to define a function like this:
>> 
>> def foo(self, bar, x= bar.x):
>>     ....
>>     pass
>> 
>> Now I have the problem that 'bar' isn't really known when defining this
>> function.
>> So how can I achieve this behaviour?
> 
> There's a FAQ entry o this, too IIRC :-)
> 
> The workaround looks like this:
> 
> def foo(self, bar, x=None):
>     if x is None:
>         x = bar.x
>     ...

Thanks again.
I see, I have to look more often on the website ;)

Bye
Marco


-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 11 17:58:43 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:58:43 -0800
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <ut0b0oolk66sfb@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3DD03623.808F9D6E@alcyone.com>

John Roth wrote:

> The 'and' 'or' hack is the cannonical way of doing this. It short
> circuits properly, and it returns the value of the expression that was
> evaluated.

... but does not work as expected when the "then" expression evaluates
to false.  It's important to not forget that when using it, which is one
of the reasons it is unappealing.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Exercise is wonderful.  I could sit and watch it all day.
\__/ Louis Wu
    Fauxident / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/fauxident/
 A "faux" ident daemon in Python


From TrentM at ActiveState.com  Fri Nov 29 14:50:24 2002
From: TrentM at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:50:24 -0800
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.2.2 released!
Message-ID: <20021129115024.B15277@ActiveState.com>

We are pleased to announce that version 2.2.2 of ActivePython is now
available for download from http://www.ActiveState.com/ActivePython
This is a bugfix release and supersedes previous ActivePython releases.

ActivePython is ActiveState's quality-assured binary build of Python.
Builds are currently available for Windows, Linux and Solaris.

In addition to the core, ActivePython features:
    * expat for XML processing;
    * zlib for data compression;
    * Tkinter for Tk development;
    * a large set of useful Python documentation; and, 
    * on Windows, Mark Hammond's PyWin32 extensions,
      including the Pythonwin IDE, support for Python ASP, the PythonCOM
      system.

Please submit email feedback to ActivePython-feedback at ActiveState.com,
and file bugs against ActivePython at
http://bugs.ActiveState.com/ActivePython.

Thanks, and enjoy!

Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 18 17:09:11 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 22:09:11 GMT
Subject: changing the Python grammar ?
References: <2259b0e2.0211181221.2eab9db7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <arboe7$5qj$0@216.39.172.122>

On 18 Nov 2002 12:21:52 -0800, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:

>Browsing on the on-line refencence manual you can find the formal
>definition of the Python grammar: http://python.org/doc/current/ref/grammar.txt
>
>It is pretty clear, for instance you see what is a valid identifier:
>
>identifier ::= 
>             (letter|"_") (letter | digit | "_")*
>  
>letter ::= 
>             lowercase | uppercase
>  
>lowercase ::= 
>             "a"..."z"
>  
>uppercase ::= 
>             "A"..."Z"
>  
>digit ::= 
>             "0"..."9"
>
>But now a question arise to me: can I modify the grammar ??
>
>Suppose for instance I want to make able Python to recognize identifiers
>starting with some funny symbol, say "@". All I must do is to modify
>the first line of the grammar as 
>
>identifier ::= 
>               ["@"] (letter|"_") (letter | digit | "_")*
>
>In the best of the worlds, I would look for some file in the Python
>source distribution containing the grammar, I would change that line, 
>and recompiling I would have a new Python able to understand identifiers
>starting with "@". Is this possible in practice ?
>
>Notice that I do NOT want to introduce ugly perlish-like identifiers in
>Python, I simply want to know how much it is possible to customize the
>Python grammar: is this a simple hack or a nightmare ?
>
>I find this possibility (if real) very intriguing, even if I see that
>this can be very dangerous.
>
>Reactions ? Comments ? Am I asking a too naive question ? I have no idea
>of how the grammar is implemented in the C code in reality.
>
The tools are all there, but depending on what kind of change you make, it
may imply the need for a host of other changes. Very tricky stuff. There are
several things you need to rebuild in the right order, to get core functionality
going with revisions.

If you have MSVC++6.x on windows, for starters read (your paths may vary):

    D:\Python-2.2.2\PC\readme.txt
    D:\Python-2.2.2\PC\example_nt\readme.txt
    D:\Python-2.2.2\PCbuild\readme.txt

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fclift at verio.net  Fri Nov  8 17:41:27 2002
From: fclift at verio.net (Fred Clift)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:41:27 -0700 (MST)
Subject: complicated class question
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D03C69@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <20021108154048.M58763-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net>

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
>
> # Save the original 'a' in '_a',
> # install 'new_a' in it's place.
> A._a = A.a
> A.a = new_a

incidentally, is there any reason I really want to save the 'old' a?  just
in case I want to swap it back?

Fred

--
Fred Clift - fclift at verio.net -- Remember: If brute
force doesn't work, you're just not using enough.




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 12 06:39:48 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 05:39:48 -0600
Subject: Optimisation problem
In-Reply-To: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F01ADCE@mexper1.maptek.net.au>
References: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F01ADCE@mexper1.maptek.net.au>
Message-ID: <15824.59524.825868.530999@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Simon> I have created a quaternion class which I am using for rotations
    Simon> in OpenGL.
    ....
    Simon> Does anyone have any idea how I can optimise this code? It is
    Simon> going to be used in a very tight rendering loop. I would prefer
    Simon> to keep all the code in Python, and avoid writing any external
    Simon> modules.

That depends on a number of things.  Starting with the code itself and
sticking strictly to Python and using only eyeballs and a text editor (that
is, nearly no brain power ;-), you can eliminate some duplicate computations
and avoid a bunch of attribute references and a needless function call:

    from math import sin, cos
    class Quaternion:
        def __init__(self, degree, x, y, z):
            matrix = self.matrix = range(16)

            angle2 = degree * 0.0087266462599716477
            result = sin(angle2)

            self.w = cos(angle2)
            self.x = x * result
            self.y = y * result
            self.z = z * result

            # where __createMatrix() used to start...
            w,x,y,z = self.w, self.x, self.y, self.z
            zz = z*z
            yz = y*z
            yy = y*y
            xx = x*x
            xy = x*y
            xz = x*z
            wy = w*y
            wx = w*x
            wz = w*z
            matrix[0] = 1.0 - 2.0 * ( yy + zz )
            matrix[1] = 2.0 * ( xy - wz )
            matrix[2] = 2.0 * ( xz + wy )
            matrix[3] = 0.0

            matrix[4] = 2.0 * ( xy + wz )
            matrix[5] = 1.0 - 2.0 * ( xx + zz )
            matrix[6] = 2.0 * ( yz - wx )
            matrix[7] = 0.0

            matrix[8] = 2.0 * ( xz - wy )
            matrix[9] = 2.0 * ( yz + wx )
            matrix[10] = 1.0 - 2.0 * ( xx + yy )
            matrix[11] = 0.0

            matrix[12] = 0.0
            matrix[13] = 0.0
            matrix[14] = 0.0
            matrix[15] = 1.0

I believe that leaves the external interface of your Quaternion class intact
(its matrix, w, x, y, and z attributes should be the same as before) and
doesn't screw up the computation, but I didn't test the code.

To understand why these changes have any effect you need to understand a
little bit about the Python virtual machine.  It's worth running

    import dis
    dis.dis(Quaternion) 

before and after you make the above changes to see how the generated byte
code changes.

You might want to also check out any or all of

    Psyco:     http://psyco.sourceforge.net/
    PyInline:  http://pyinline.sourceforge.net/
    Weave:     http://www.scipy.org/
    Pyrex:     http://www.cosc.cantebury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/

They all bend or break your "avoid writing any external modules" to a
greater or lesser degree, but are all worth investigating.  Psyco requires
next to no changes to your source code but is Pentium-specific.  PyInline
and Weave allow you to embed C/C++ code into your Python code and have them
compiled and linked on-the-fly.  Pyrex allows you to write extension modules
in a language that is almost exactly Python.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From simonb at webone.com.au  Sat Nov 23 20:35:23 2002
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:35:23 +1100
Subject: Guido's regrets: filter and map
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au>

Hello,

I just read Guido's "python regret's" slide's from OSCON,
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=OSCON+%22python+regrets%22
and one thing i can't work out is,
he is saying we can do map() and filter() with
list comprehensions (it's faster too)
eg.

amapedlist = [ somefunc(x) for x in alist ]

But how would we do a filter with list comprehensions?


Simon Burton




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Nov  1 14:42:53 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 01 Nov 2002 13:42:53 -0600
Subject: Macros in Python, and using reg exps to build a scheme
	interpreter
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0210311543300.24300-100000@denali.ccs.neu.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0210311543300.24300-100000@denali.ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <1036179773.527.1937.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Thu, 2002-10-31 at 14:46, Peter L. Markowsky wrote:
> 	Currently in one of my classes I'm building a scheme interpreter
> in Java. This has brought two questions to mind. First does python use
> language macros to define higher level functionality. And two does anyone
> know a good place to look for how to implement a scheme parser using
> regular expressions?

You can create a tokenizer with regular expressions, though Scheme's
tokenization rules are simple enough you could pretty much do it with
string.find.  You can't turn the tokens into a parse tree using regular
expressions, but the relation between tokens and parse trees in Scheme
is clear enough that it should be obvious how you'll do that portion.

I.e., you'll want to tokenize the expression (cons "a" 'a) into
something like: [('symbol', '('), ('identifier', 'cons'), ('string',
'a'), ('symbol', "'"), ('identifier', 'a'), ('symbol', ')')], and then
turn that into something more sensible.

  Ian




From smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org  Fri Nov  1 11:57:28 2002
From: smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org (Jacob Smullyan)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 11:57:28 -0500
Subject: python bulletin board software
Message-ID: <slrnas5cjk.bvq.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>

Does anyone know of any bulletin board software written in Python
other than Zope's various contributions?  I've come across only
relatively trivial scripts so far, nothing at the level of
sophistication of the various PHP forums (phpBB, for instance).  

js


From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 27 15:16:09 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:16:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <mailman.1038414274.6010.python-list@python.org> <slrnauaif6.1gv.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <vs7auu07opjlv8enekpde94kfo241tnr5a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnauanfk.2f0.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:47:47 GMT, malik m napisa?(a):
> p.s. does anyone know what the big 2.2.2 updates are?
Take a look at:
        <http://www.python.org/doc/current/whatsnew/whatsnew22.html>
HTH.
-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Nov 24 02:44:25 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 02:44:25 -0500
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aroklh$9qu$1@wheel2.two14.net> <arp2oq$a8$1@panix1.panix.com> <arpeu2$9vo$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <arq00p$6hm$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <arpeu2$9vo$1 at wheel2.two14.net>,  <maney at pobox.com> wrote:
>Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>>
>> ObJennie: Joel Rosenberg, _D'Shai_
>
>Oh, let's see some new hands for a change...

Try some different chum, then.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra


From rmunn at pobox.com  Sun Nov 10 01:33:10 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 06:33:10 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7h31y5uyj81.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <slrnasqf9a.mjr.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <qVcz9.25108$6b.985891@news2.east.cox.net> <3DCD6038.7E6EC76B@kolumbus.fi>
Message-ID: <slrnasrvlm.is8.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Martti Halminen <martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi> wrote:
> Richard Dillingham wrote:
> 
>> > The only thing that could make me at all comfortable with using Lisp
>> > would be if I had an editor that would color-highlight not keywords or
>> > strings, as color-highlighting usually goes, but levels of parenthesis
>> > indentation. So that this:
>> >
>> > (a (b (c (d e))))
> 
>> 
>> I wonder why you aren't writing
>> (a
>>     (b
>>         (c
>>             (d e)
>>         )
>>     )
>> )
> 
> 
> A lisp programmer would write it like this:
> 
> (a
>  (b
>   (c
>    (d e))))
> 
> or the original: (a (b (c (d e)))) if using so short names and no
> control structures causing special indentation.

Both of you are right with regard to indentation; you can tell that I
don't use Lisp, as I am completely unfamiliar with proper indentation
techniques. The second form (with the closing parentheses lined up)
would confuse me if I tried to read someone else's code, whereas the
first (sort of C-like) form of indentation allows me to see at a glance
which parenthesis is being closed where.

> 
>> The issue with 'Python being easier to read than Lisp,' IMHO, is mainly that
>> Python FORCES you to use indentation, whereas Lisp does not.

And that has become one of the major reasons why I like Python: I can
read code written by anyone, even language newbies, and understand it
without having to puzzle out their indentation style. The other reason
why I like Python is the power of introspection. (I have this peculiar
mental "image" of a TV commercial like the "Behold the power of cheese!"
commercials found on US television, except the slogan is "Behold the
power of introspection!")

>> 
>> Since Lisp does not force you to write readable code, you have to force
>> yourself to use indentation.
> 
> For a beginner it might be forcing, for the professionals it is a major
> tool. Not using the canonical indentation style is a sure sign of a
> newbie in comp.lang.lisp.
> 
>> But I don't see a bunch of C programmers typing
>> if (a) { if (b) { if (c) { asdf; } else { zzzz; }} else { foo; }} else
>> {bar;}
>> like a Lisp coder might type
>> (if (a) (if (b) (if (c) (asdf) (zzzz)) (foo)) (bar))
> 
>> (if (a)
>>     (if (b)
>>         (if (c)
>>             (asdf)
>>             (zzzz)
>>         )
>>         (foo)
>>     )
>>     (bar)
>> )
>> 
> 
> (if (a)
>     (if (b)
>         (if (c)
>             (asdf)
> 	  (zzzz))	  
>       (foo))
>   (bar))
> 
> Would be the normal way to write this.

Well, I can understand the structure behind the canonical Lisp
indentation style. And it might be horizon-broadening to attempt a
serious program in Lisp sometime. But despite the fact that I *know*
there's logical structure to it, seeing Lisp code still makes me think
of "You are in a maze of twisty little parentheses, all similar." :-)

Incidentally, I am not trying to bash Lisp; it's just that my own
initial reactions were negative, and I haven't found the positive in it
that I know to be there. But having found a language (Python) that
thinks the way I do, and being able to have my thoughts flow into real
code without the language getting in the way, I find myself disinclined
to invest time and mental energy learning a language that *doesn't* flow
for me.

My general take on why Python is popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
For most people, learning Lisp seems to be an uphill struggle, whereas
Python simply *flows*.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Tue Nov  5 16:02:31 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:02:31 +1100
Subject: More about simple question
In-Reply-To: <20021105180901.76557.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021105180901.76557.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200211060802.31379.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 05:09, xinghua shi wrote:
> Hey,thanks you all. Actually, I messed up the
> indentation and I first thought it's not a big problem
> as I used to write in C.
I'm just changing over from C myself. Python is definately not the same 
language, and you should _not_ think of it as "C with a different syntax"

> I still have another question. If I have a file named:
> foo.py. then how can I get an excetable, say foo?
> In C, I could use
> % gcc foo.c -o foo
>
> So how can I do similar in Python?
> %python foo.py -o foo
> doesn't work of course.
Python isn't compiled, and you probably shouldn't be looking for an answer 
that involved a compiler.

Typically, you'd make a script:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node4.html#SECTION004220000000000000000
I'm not sure how well this will work in Windows though.

There are other alternatives (py2exe is one that I've seen, but not played 
with)
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/
- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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HePyjZMJzgE2jNXDAarrJ6I=
=+g1q
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov  5 17:49:19 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 23:49:19 +0100
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter) writes:

> If one wishes use an OSI-approved license for one's own code, there
> are many to choose from, two of which are GPL and the PSF license. If
> one chooses GPL, there are explicit instructions at the Gnu Web site
> on how to use the license. On the other hand, I have not seen any such
> instructions for using the PSF license. Can one simply refer to the
> PSF license without making changes? 

No: that is "between the Python Software Foundation (PSF), and the
Individual or Organization (Licensee) accessing and otherwise using
Python 2.2 software". Unless you are the PSF, and unless you ship
Python 2.2, you cannot meaningfully establish such a contract.

> Or is it advisable to make a revised copy, changing the name of the
> name of the owner/copyright holder from PSF to oneself, for example?
> What else is required?

If you systematically update all legal entities in this document, you
certainly arrive at what I would consider a meaningful license, and
you could use it right away. I don't think anybody but you and your
licensee could "require" anything about your license: If you want to
put the text "you can use this software only on Sundays" into the
license, nobody could stop you from doing so.

Of course, with any changes to the license text, the license probably
loses their OSI-approvedness (ask OSI for details).

In short, we (the PSF) don't care about other uses of this text,
beyond it being a license for Python.

Regards,
Martin


From zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Nov  4 11:40:36 2002
From: zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:40:36 +0100
Subject: Encoding of String
Message-ID: <aq67lr$6fj$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi!

Is there a way to get the encoding of a string?

Suppose I do:

mystring="blu"
ustring=unicode(mystring, "utf-8")

later I want to know which encoding ustring has:
ustring.getEcoding() --> "utf-8"

Is there something like "getEcoding()"?

  thomas




From clpy at a-nugget.de  Mon Nov  4 18:34:36 2002
From: clpy at a-nugget.de (Guido Goldstein)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 00:34:36 +0100
Subject: UDP broadcasts => 'Permission denied'
References: <mailman.1036450093.4936.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2y9889aer.fsf@mail.a-nugget.de>

Hi!

On Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:47:51 +0100
  Christian Kaenzig <christian at becool.ch> wrote:
[...]
> But then I wanted the client not to send its data explicitely to the server, 
> but send a broadcast packet instead, so I told the client to send it to 
> '<broadcast>'. This didn't work :-(. It printed the folowing message :
> 
> s.sendto('Hello world',(HOST, PORT))
> socket.error: (13, 'Permission denied')
[...]

Try the following:
--- cut ---
if hasattr(socket,'SO_BROADCAST'):
    s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_BROADCAST, 1)
s.sendto('Hello world',(HOST, PORT))
--- cut ---

This allows broadcast messages going out from the given socket.

HIH
  Guido


From dansilva at lynx.dac.neu.edu  Sun Nov 24 16:15:18 2002
From: dansilva at lynx.dac.neu.edu (Daniel Silva)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:15:18 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <3DE07539.2040905@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAsV/9ZPps7kaNgsdz13mKIcKAAAAQAAAAZ35cPIqyDEmyJlCaHic9OAEAAAAA@lynx.neu.edu>

Who cares about converting Python coders to Lisp/Scheme or Scheme coders
to Python?  Just write a couple of compilers (Python->Scheme and
Scheme->Python) and use any language you like ;)

BTW, on ease of learning: scheme is horrible to the eye at first glance
because kids learn C-like syntax first and math looks weird in prefix.
You need a good book like How to Design Programs or The Little Schemers,
and a good week or two, to break that ice.

Watch out for DrPython! ;)

-----------------------------------
Daniel Silva
dsilva at ccs.neu.edu
 





From hansgeunsmeyer at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 20 21:44:56 2002
From: hansgeunsmeyer at earthlink.net (hg)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 18:44:56 -0800
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <arfgtg$fhj$1@Fourier.suse.de> <7kf83526.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <95959723.0211201844.7ce3458@posting.google.com>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote in message news:<7kf83526.fsf at python.net>...

> Unfortunately it won't work this way.
> 
> Think of call_some_c_code() being the C standard library's qsort
> function, and call_back_into_python() is the function pointer I gave
> qsort to do the comparison. There's no way to pass the thread state to
> the callback function!

I'm not sure if I understand you, but what you're saying doesn't make
sense to me. The call_back_into_python is called by call_some_c_code,
so if you pass a pointer to the current thread state as arg, you could
also pass it on to call_back_into_python, couldn't you? It doesn't
matter whether or not call_back_into_python itself is passed as an
argument to call_some_c_code.

Another moment to pass on a pointer to the current thread state would
be when you register the Python object that will actually be called by
your callback.
I assume here that your call_back_into_python is intended to wrap a
call to
PyObject_CallObject.  If so, you have to pass it a pointer to some
callable Python object, so I assume you have some function to register
which object will actually be called by your call_back_into_python. 
So, at the moment when you register this Python function, you could
also save and/or pass on a pointer to the current thread state. No?

> 
> Storing the thread state in a global variable would be possible, but
> in this case it wouldn't be thread safe, I assume, and *only* work if
> the callout into C is done by my extension module.

I see no reason why this wouldn't be thread-safe. You could store the
current thread state when you initialize your module.

As far as I understand it, it doesn't really matter _what_ the thread
state is that you swap into the current state before you do the
callback, as long as it is _some_ valid thread state (not NULL). So,
before you do the callback, at any moment when you're in the main
Python thread, you could store a pointer to the then current
threadstate.

Hans


From andys at collegenet.com  Tue Nov 19 16:10:05 2002
From: andys at collegenet.com (higgeldy Piggeldy)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 13:10:05 -0800
Subject: Telnetlib help.  I need a case function.
Message-ID: <1d4aad28.0211191310.6300984a@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I wrote this script a while ago to renew my library books for me.
Our library here has a telnet interface where you can renew your
books.
So I tried to automate that for myself, now I need to upgrade it
because there are cases where it hangs on the read_until because the
server is sending something unexpected, and I am wondering if anyone
could help me get it to react to different input.
here is the script:

#!/usr/bin/python
import telnetlib
import sys
import string
import re
import regsub
import regex
import smtplib
succeed = re.compile("( *Successful renewal for title '.*'\.)")
maynot = re.compile("( *You may not renew '.*\.)")
noneleft = re.compile(" *No items were renewed .*")
due = re.compile ("( *Due Date = \d\d \w\w\w \d\d\d\d)")
tn = telnetlib.Telnet("dyna.multnomah.lib.or.us")
tn.read_until("login: ")
print "logging in!\n"
tn.write("fastcat\n")
tn.read_until(">>")
tn.write("\n")
#tn.read_until("<<VT100>> ")
tn.write("\n")
tn.read_until("N")
tn.write("\n")
tn.read_until("DYNA -")
tn.write("\n")
tn.read_until("<Enter> :")
def renew(thiscard,thispin,thisemail):
        fileout = open ('temp.txt','w')
        tn.write("17\n")
        tn.read_until("barcode")
        tn.write(thiscard+"\n")
        print "\n\nrenewing ",
        print "for ",thisemail
        tn.read_until("PHONE")
        tn.write(thispin+"\n")
        tn.read_until("below")
        tn.write("1\n")
        i=1
        for i in range(24):
                tmp = open('dyna.tmp','w')
                i=i+1
                tn.read_until("below")
                tn.write("r\n")
                (tn.read_until('renew'))
                tn.write(`i` + "\n")
                tmp.write (tn.read_until("Enter"))
                tn.write("\n")
                tmp.close()
                file = open('dyna.tmp','r')
                while 1:
                        line = file.readline()
                        if not line: break
                        successobj = succeed.search(line)
                        maynotobj = maynot.search(line)
                        dueobj = due.search(line)
                        if successobj:
                                fileout.write
(repr(successobj.groups())+"\n")
                        if maynotobj:
                                fileout.write
("ATTENTION"+"\n"+repr(maynotobj.groups())+"\nATTENTION\n")
                        if dueobj:
                                fileout.write
(repr(dueobj.groups())+"\n")
                file.close()
                # tn.read_until("below")
        tn.write("so\n")
        fileout.close()
        filein = open ("temp.txt","r")
        fileout = open ("temp2.txt","w")
        msg = "Subject:Automatic Library Renewal Notice
For:"+thisuser+".\r\n\r\nThank You for using my service.\nPlease feel
free to send any donations or suggestions to me at
sweetfamily at qwest.net\n\n"
        while 1:
                line = filein.readline()
                if not line: break
                matchobj = string.replace (line,"(","")
                matchobj = string.replace (matchobj,")","")
                matchobj = string.replace (matchobj,'"','')
                matchobj = string.replace (matchobj,"'","")
                matchobj = string.replace (matchobj,",","")
                matchobj = string.replace (matchobj,"/","")
                print matchobj,
                msg = msg+matchobj
                fileout.write(matchobj)
        filein.close()
        fileout.close()
        fromaddr = "From:andys at collegenet.com"
        toaddr = "To: "
        toaddr = toaddr + thisemail
        print toaddr
        sending = smtplib.SMTP('mail.collegenet.com')
        sending.set_debuglevel(0)
        sending.sendmail(fromaddr,toaddr,msg)
        sending.quit()
cardpatt = regex.compile ('^card:\(\w*\)')
pinpatt = regex.compile ('^pin:\(\w*\)')
emailpatt = regex.compile ("email:\(.*\)")
userpatt = regex.compile ("user:\(.*\)")
config = open("telnetter.cfg")
status =0
while 1:
        line = config.readline()
        if not line:break
        card = cardpatt.match(line)
        pin = pinpatt.match(line)
        email = emailpatt.match(line)
        user = userpatt.match(line)
        if card>=0:
                thiscard = str(cardpatt.group(1))
                status = status +1
        if pin>=0:
                thispin = str(pinpatt.group(1))
                status = status +1
        if email>=0:
                thisemail = str(emailpatt.group(1))
                status = status +1
        if user>=0:
                thisuser = str(userpatt.group(1))
                status = status+1
        if status == 4:
                status =0
                renew(thiscard,thispin,thisemail)
#renew("21168013143409","6422")
#renew("21168018228841","6422")
tn.read_until("Enter>")
tn.write("19\n")
tn.close()
print "DONE!!"


It trips up on the tn.read_until("below") because the server is
sending something else since there are no books to renew.

Thanks 
--Andrew


From costanza at web.de  Fri Nov 22 18:12:29 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:12:29 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <mailman.1037993694.2261.python-list@python.org> <arm9oa$but$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <6qyD9.60432$Yw.2729711@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <armdko$jgb$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Pascal Costanza wrote:
>    ...
> 
>>(All the scripting languages I have seen so far rely on C for the hairy
>>stuff - and I definitely don't like that. There should be some
>>alternative.)
> 
> 
> There is.  Jython, www.jython.org, is an implementation of the Python 
> language in and for Java -- complete, working, and quite solid.

Ah, yes, of course. But you don't want to suggest that Java is a 
language that is useful for doing hairy and complex stuff. (Sure, most 
things become hairy and complex in Java, but that's a totally different 
story. ;)

I mean, Python is already more advanced than Java.

 > Vyper,
> vyper.sf.net, was a similar project to implement a new dialect of Python in 
> O'Caml (now the project is marked as "no longer active").

Interesting...

 > Python.NET was a
> similar (research) project to implement Python in C#, also now finished.

Oh my goodness. ;)

> Of these, I would only suggest Jython as feasible for production work today.  
> But surely if a third production-level implementation could be added to 
> Classic Python and Jython, this *would* be quite a significant and 
> meaningful accomplishment.
> 
> It's probably important to identify the motivations that would convince 
> somebody to use the hypothetical "LisPython" rather than Common Lisp, 
> Classic Python, or Jython; having a clear target in mind can ease many
> design choices later on.  What are your ideas in the matter?

I must admit that I don't have very clear ideas and detailed plans in 
this regard, only a strange mixture of visions and gut feelings. ;)

As I said before, Python could be a good surface language for Common 
Lisp. Something like Dylan was. The original idea in Lisp was to provide 
the so-called M-expressions one day, but that never turned out to be 
accepted by Lispers. I think the problem with M-expressions or Dylan is 
that these were completely new languages. Choosing an already existing 
language (for example Python) could be the better choice because it is 
already accepted (and proven to work in practice). Of course, that 
language should already be close to Common Lisp, but I don't see any 
major problems in that regard with Python.

Another motivation is as follows: I think the basic idea of .NET (or 
better the CLR) is quite interesting, i.e. to have a common portable 
runtime that can be used by many different languages. However, the 
design of the CLR is still very limited (it is slightly more open than 
the JVM, and that's what Microsoft wants .NET to be compared against, 
although they don't admit it publicly). For example, the CLR has only a 
limited object model that is hard to target from languages that want to 
include interesting features like multiple inheritance or multi-methods.

So in the long run, given that Microsoft really wants to live up to its 
stated goals, the limitations of the CLR need to (and I guess, will) be 
relaxed step by step. If you think this out, you will realize that this 
must end in something that has a similar expressive power as that of 
Lisp. (Here, I am referring to the code=data feature again that would 
ultimately allow you to translate any kind of language.)

So my main vision is to turn Common Lisp into such a kind of common 
runtime for various languages. That's one reason why I started the JVM 
implementation in Common Lisp.

Does this make some sense?


Pascal

P.S.: I know that this sounds like a major undertaking. ;)

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From neal at metaslash.com  Thu Nov  7 22:04:23 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 22:04:23 -0500
Subject: Dynamic loading of modules in AIX
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.08.03.04.11.277195.12688@metaslash.com>

I'm trying to get python to load dynamic modules.
But after loading the module, when code inside
the module calls back into the main program,
it seg faults.  More details below.

Anybody have any ideas what could cause this?
At one point, I believe this worked.  It's possible
the machines aren't configured properly or don't
have the necessary patches.

Currently, the interpreter builds and seems to work fine.
However, it can't load modules.  Well, actually it can
load modules, but as soon as the module calls a python
utility (an API in libpython), it seg faults.

Specifically (I cleaned the lines up and took out some stuff):

        neal at dupont [~/python/dist/src]$ make
        # snip line
        running build
        running build_ext
        building 'struct' extension
        gcc -g -c Modules/structmodule.c

        ./Modules/ld_so_aix gcc -bI:Modules/python.exp structmodule.o \
                -L/usr/local/lib -o build/lib.aix-4.3-2.3/struct.so
        gcc -Wl,-einitstruct -Wl,-bE:struct.exp -Wl,-bI:Modules/python.exp \
                -Wl,-bhalt:4 -Wl,-bM:SRE -Wl,-T512 -Wl,-H512 -lm \
                -o build/lib.aix-4.3-2.3/struct.so \
                build/temp.aix-4.3-2.3/structmodule.o -L/usr/local/lib
        ./python -c 'import struct'
        make: *** [sharedmods] Segmentation fault

gcc version is 3.2.  I tried xlc, but got the same results.  I think
xlc's version is 5.7.6.5 (5765-C6400).  My LIBPATH was empty.  I also
set LIBPATH to the directory where libpython2.3.a lives, but it
doesn't help.

This is on AIX 4.3.1.0, but I've had the problem on 4.3.3.x and 4.2.1.0.

Here's some more details:

        #0  0xd009be70 in Py_InitModule4TraceRefs ()
                from build/lib.aix-4.3-2.3/struct.so
        #1  0xd009ac3c in initstruct ()
                at /home/neal/python/dist/src/Modules/structmodule.c:1535
        #2  0x101182e0 in _PyImport_LoadDynamicModule (name=0x2026d70c "struct",
                pathname=0x20161594 "build/lib.aix-4.3-2.3/struct.so", fp=0x0)
                at Python/importdl.c:53

This indicates that the dynamic load of struct.so was successful. (#2)
The call to initstruct() in struct.so was successful. (#1)  But
inside the module, when we try to call Py_InitModule4TraceRefs()
(or Py_InitModule in the code), it crashes.  I don't know why.

Suggestions?

Thanks,
Neal


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Mon Nov 18 10:27:35 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:27:35 -0600
Subject: Tkinter wart: bug or feature?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E36D92@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: support @ internetdiscovery.com [mailto:support @
> internetdiscovery.com]
> 
> On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:57:28 GMT, "Fredrik Lundh"
> <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> 
> >David Eppstein wrote:
> >
> >> ...or do all the ugly bookkeeping necessary to make sure 
> that image1
> >> gets deleted when and only when it is no longer needed
> >
> >where all the "ugly bookkeeping necessary" is one extra line:
> >
> >    lbl = Tkinter.Label(win.window, image=image1)
> >    lbl.photo = image1
> 
> This is still a bug workaround, just like using global. You're still
> expecting the end user to do ugly bookkeeping, but only for images:
> I don't have to hold a reference to text1 global for it to work.   
> No other commonly used entity in the Tkinter API has this
> counter-intuitive behavior.  It's also very counter-intuitive to what
> Tkinter is wrapping, namelyTk itself.

I've been reading this thread, and it doesn't seem to be a bug
really, but a compromise between the two distinct ways that Python
and Tcl manage their objects; in Python, if you lose all references
to an object, it automagically disappears (including images); in
Tcl, if you lose all references to an image, it doesn't disappear,
you can reclaim it v?a "calling it by it's name".

So, what would you propose?

If you don't delete the image (in Tk) when the object is reclaimed,
then the image is still lost to Python, because although Tk remembers
it, Python doesn't.

Maybe using a class dictionary in the Image class could help; when
an image is instantiated *with* a name, upon creation, it's name
is added to this dictionary.  Upon destruction of the Python object,
if it doesn't have a name, Tk's image object is also deleted.

> I've seen a number of different bug workarounds for this, but
> my question remains: is this a bug or feature? It has been
> Benevolently declared to be Not a Bug, but clearly others have had
> trouble with this too. If it's reopened as a bug we can do something 
> about it as there are obvious fixes as I pointed out, but if it's a
> feature there's nothing we can do.

Nothing to *cancel* the current behaviour, but that doesn't
mean you can't make it better.

-gustavo



From psayuj at rediffmail.com  Sun Nov 24 01:19:59 2002
From: psayuj at rediffmail.com (paul sayuj kanjirathingal)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 06:19:59 -0000
Subject: embedding python inC
Message-ID: <20021124061959.31099.qmail@webmail28.rediffmail.com>

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URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20021124/f4073432/attachment.ksh>

From harsh at computer.org  Sat Nov 23 14:17:15 2002
From: harsh at computer.org (Stacy White)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:17:15 GMT
Subject: DCOracle2 performance tuning
Message-ID: <%uQD9.122449$1O2.8846@sccrnsc04>

I work with a large body of Perl code, and am toying around with the
possibility of converting to Python.  One thing standing in my way is my
inability to make DCOracle2 perform comparably to Perl's DBD::Oracle.

DCOracle2 performance is good relative to DBD::Oracle until it's faced with
large result sets.  For instance, time for:

  c = db.cursor()
  c.execute("select one_field from table_with_10000_rows")
  r = c.fetchone()
  while r:
      r = c.fetchone()

is

  0.620u 0.030s 0:00.75 86.6%     0+0k 0+0io 1193pf+0w

vs.

  my $sth = $dbh->prepare("SELECT one_field from table_with_10000_rows");
  $sth->execute();
  while (my $data = $sth->fetchrow_arrayref) {
  }

at

  0.480u 0.040s 0:00.62 83.8%     0+0k 0+0io 1211pf+0w

So not quite as fast, but still acceptable (about 0.12s in either case is
due to login time, so the Python code takes about 25% longer, but that's not
too big a deal).

But changing the execute line to select all 50 fields from the table:

   c.execute("select * from table_with_10000_rows")

changes the Python time to:

  10.780u 0.120s 0:10.74 101.4%   0+0k 0+0io 5549pf+0w

vs. a Perl time of:

  1.960u 0.060s 0:02.18 92.6%     0+0k 0+0io 1218pf+0w

I've fiddled around with fetchmany, and fetchall with no luck.  For example,
changing the inner loop to:

    rows = c.fetchmany(20)
    while len(rows):
        for r in rows:
            pass
        rows = c.fetchmany(20)

leaves me with the same performance.

Any suggestions?




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov  4 21:25:57 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 02:25:57 GMT
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com> <aq6qun$ib4$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <aq7a7l$v68$0@216.39.172.122>

On 4 Nov 2002 22:05:11 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On 4 Nov 2002 12:24:31 -0800, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:
>
>>Suppose I want to parse the following expression:
>>
>>>>> exp='(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
>>
>>I want to extract the first part, i.e. '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)'.
>>
[... previous version ...]

Wondering why I didn't just write:

 >>> import re
 >>> rx = re.compile(r'([()]|[^()]+)')
 >>> class Addelim:
 ...     def __init__(self, delim):
 ...        self.parens=0; self.delim=delim
 ...     def __call__(self, m):
 ...         s = m.group(1)
 ...         if s=='(': self.parens+=1
 ...         if self.parens==1 and s==')':
 ...             self.parens=0
 ...             return s+self.delim
 ...         if s==')': self.parens -=1
 ...         return s
 ...
 >>> exp =  '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'

It was natural to be able to specify the delimiter. And the + is probably
better than the * on the non-paren "[^()]+" part of the pattern.
Then using \n as delimiter to break into lines one can just print it.

 >>> print rx.sub(Addelim('\n'),exp)
 (a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)
 +f(s1)

Which you could also use like:

 >>> print rx.sub(Addelim('\n'),exp).splitlines()
 ['(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)', '+f(s1)']

Or to get back to your original requirement,

 >>> print rx.sub(Addelim('\n'),exp).splitlines()[0]
 (a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)

But I suspect it would run faster to let a regex split the string and then use
a loop like yours on the pieces, which would be '(' or ')' or some other string
that you don't need to look at character by character. E.g.,

 >>> rx = re.compile(r'([()])')
 >>> ss = rx.split(exp)
 >>> ss
 ['', '(', 'a*', '(', 'b+c*', '(', '2-x', ')', '', ')', '+d', ')', '+f', '(', 's1', ')', '']

Notice that the splitter matches wind up at the odd indices. I think that's generally true
when you put parens around the splitting expression, to return the matches as part of the list,
but I'm not 100% certain. Anyway, you could make use of that, something like:

 >>>
 >>> parens = 0
 >>> endix = []
 >>> for i in range(1,len(ss),2):
 ...     if parens==1 and ss[i]==')':
 ...         parens=0; endix.append(i+1)
 ...     elif ss[i]=='(': parens += 1
 ...     else:            parens -= 1
 ...
 >>> endix
 [12, 16]

You could break the loop like you did if you just want the first expression,
or you could grab it by

 >>> print ''.join(ss[:endix[0]])
 (a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)

or list the bunch,

 >>> lo=0
 >>> for hi in endix:
 ...     print ''.join(ss[lo:hi])
 ...     lo = hi
 ...
 (a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)
 +f(s1)

or whatever. Which is not as slick, but probably faster if you had to do a bi-ig bunch of them.

I think when the fenceposts are simple, but you are mainly interested in the data between, splitting
on a fencepost regex and processing the resulting list can be simpler and faster than trying to
do it all with a complex regex.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 24 18:48:21 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:48:21 -0500
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <3DE14A0C.E0CDBC16@alcyone.com> <arrjjs$2ro$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <NIucnQmfWqGc-3ygXTWcqw@comcast.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:arrjjs$2ro$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> except in perverse ways (and this is not the only one):
>  >>> b=123
>  >>> if [a for a in [b]][0] == 123: print 'aha'
>  ...
>  aha
>  >>> a
>  123

Interesting ...

>
> BTW, are list comprehensions going to get their own local namespace
sometime
> or is this the way it's going to be forever?

Probably same as for for loops.

tjr




From ngterry2000 at yahoo.com.hk  Mon Nov 11 23:01:16 2002
From: ngterry2000 at yahoo.com.hk (=?big5?q?Terence=20Ng?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:01:16 +0800 (CST)
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
Message-ID: <20021112040116.5154.qmail@web41107.mail.yahoo.com>

I guess it cannot consider as spaming if I provide the
option to remove from the mailing list.

Thanks!

Terence 

_________________________________________________________
??(???)????(???)??????(???)...
Over 800 latest ringtones, only on Yahoo!
http://ringtone.yahoo.com.hk



From doug.fort at verizon.net  Tue Nov 26 20:15:26 2002
From: doug.fort at verizon.net (Doug Fort)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:15:26 GMT
Subject: accessing front of a list
References: <as1539$693$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.27.01.17.58.439023@verizon.net>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:50:35 +0000, Simon Bunker wrote:

> This is probably a fairly newbie question - and also because I am
> coming from a Perl background. I was wondering if there is a Python
> equivilant to Perls shift operator?
> 
> There seem to be many ways of getting access to the end of an array -
> pop() append() etc but I couldn't find anyting to shift off the front like
> when
> reading in argv.
> 

You can pop() from either end of a list. pop(0) gives you the head, pop()
or pop(-1) give you the end.

But when accessing a list from front to rear, I find my self using
constructs like 'for x in l:...' or the functional programming tools
map(), filter(), reduce(), etc. 

-- 
Doug Fort, Programmer
http://www.dougfort.net



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 16 16:39:57 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:39:57 -0500
Subject: Formatted Output - Floating Point Numbers
References: <d8d62a73.0211161321.12603c31@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <R12dnYtQFN0gJEugXTWcqg@comcast.com>

"David Marshall" <maximum_hops at yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d8d62a73.0211161321.12603c31 at posting.google.com...
> Im new to python and I was wondering if anybody could tell me how to
> modify the output to only obtaiu 2 decimal places.

Look up % formating operator.  tjr




From hanzac at cmmail.com  Tue Nov 26 07:41:35 2002
From: hanzac at cmmail.com (hanzac)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 04:41:35 -0800
Subject: Does anyone use Jython to implement a robot of Robocode? I hava a problem.
Message-ID: <a8a1d9ad.0211260441.6bf1ac6f@posting.google.com>

I have succeeded in creating & running a robot which was coded in
Jython,
But the problem is when I first run the robot, it is disabled but
after a round it runs well.

The code is here (SampleBlaze.py):
// The Robot
from robocode import *

class SampleBlaze(Robot):
	dist = 50
	
	def run(self):
		while 1:
			self.turnGunRight(5)
	
	def onScannedRobot(self, e):
		if e.getDistance() < 50 and self.getEnergy() > 50:
			self.fire(3)
		else:
			self.fire(1)
		self.scan()
	
	def onHitByBullet(self, e):
		self.turnRight(self.normalRelativeAngle(90-(self.getHeading()-e.getHeading())))
		self.ahead(self.dist)
		self.dist *= -1
		self.scan()
	
	def onHitRobot(self, e):
		turnGunAmt = self.normalRelativeAngle(e.getBearing()+self.getHeading()-self.getGunHeading())
		self.turnGunRight(turnGunAmt)
		self.fire(3)
	
	def normalRelativeAngle(self, angle):
		if angle > -180 and angle <= 180:
			return angle
		fixedAngle = angle
		while fixedAngle <= -180:
			fixedAngle += 360
		while fixedAngle > 180:
			fixedAngle -= 360
		return fixedAngle


From mwh at python.net  Fri Nov  8 05:56:43 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:56:43 GMT
Subject: power TypeErrors
References: <20021107192126.26346.92569.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1036703529.26891.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3wunoxrgu.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> writes:

> [interesting stuff]

Thanks.
 
> FP > I'm not sure what your background is,
> 
> MH> Algebraic geometry, mainly, plus a little theoretical physics & number
> MH> theory.
> 
> Yep. It's ironic that mathematicians hardly ever "do math" (by which I mean 
> calculations)! 

Hey, I "do calculations"...

> It's scientists that do that  -- mostly applied physics folks: 
> astronomers, chemists, geologists, engineers, and some biologists.
> 
> Mathematical and theoretical physics applications tend to stay very
> conceptual.  They manipulate equations, but they hardly ever have to
> actually plug in numbers and solve them (especially in droves).

... just not usually with numbers :)

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  For their next act, they'll no doubt be buying a firewall 
  running under NT, which makes about as much sense as 
  building a prison out of meringue.                     -- -:Tanuki:-
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html


From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 19 08:09:09 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:09:09 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <eCeC9.26263$744.955879@news1.tin.it> <rReC9.17366$0U1.1726665@news2.east.cox.net> <TYeC9.26326$744.959069@news1.tin.it> <7h3r8dhvkbc.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3DDA32B7.5060508@zuken.de>
Message-ID: <7h3el9hvheu.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Jan D. Wegner" <Jan.Wegner at zuken.de> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> using py 2.2.2 on winNT
> 
> l = (1, 2, 3, 4)
> ans = l in [l] # is tuple l in list l ?
> ans
> 1 # allways true
> ans < 2
> 1 # its a boolean, though ...
> 
> am I right?
> 
> ( or is ther a chance to execute 'if l in ( [l] < 2 ):' )

Nope, it's much more surprising than that...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  For their next act, they'll no doubt be buying a firewall 
  running under NT, which makes about as much sense as 
  building a prison out of meringue.                     -- -:Tanuki:-
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html


From patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au  Thu Nov 21 18:42:57 2002
From: patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au (Patrick W)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 10:42:57 +1100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <87u1ib6bte.fsf@key.localdomain> <3u3D9.49382$Yw.2293340@news2.tin.it> <874rabdo3t.fsf@key.localdomain> <5r6D9.50977$Yw.2347638@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <87wun6ij5q.fsf@key.localdomain>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> 
> I don't WANT to use a language that lets me redesign it -- worse, I
> most definitely don't want to use a language that lets _others_
> redesign it, and find myself stuck using and supporting half a dozen
> different (and mostly badly designed) languages in as many disparate
> projects.  If my purpose in life was to experiment with programming
> languages, I would surely feel differently; but it's not.

Fair enough too!

For personal hacks, I *love* to use a language that lets me redesign
it without inflicting pain on anyone else.  In a group setting I'd
prefer to use Python or 'vanilla' CL for most purposes.

Macros are excellent for tinkerers (like me) and for experts like
language designers.  If the two uses are kept distinct (experimenting
with ideas vs writing macros for other people's consumption in order
to evolve a language), there is no problem.  But I agree the
*potential* for hubris is great, and potentially deadly. ;-)

> So, I do miss multiple dispatching, which would let me avoid this
> infrastructure building just like I can avoid it in the more common
> single dispatch case.
> 
> But I don't miss it ENOUGH to wish that Python had macros (shudder)...:-).
> Not by a long shot, in fact...

Same here.  It's Lisp AND Python for me.  Not OR.


From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Nov 27 02:29:58 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 02:29:58 -0500
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org>
 <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
 <3DE44D27.3030904@something.invalid> <6GH59kKkXIpD092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <2RH59kKkXYeD092yn@gnosis.cx>         

||And it doesn't replace reduce at all -- we've yet to see a construct
||proposed to do that (aside from writing it out as an explicit loop).

Actually... here's an... ummm... "improved" version:

reduce = lambda func, seq, init=None:\
         [(l.append(func(l[i],seq[i])),l[-1])
                         for l in [[init or seq[0]]]
                         for i in range(len(seq))][-1][1]

Yours, Lulu...

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Tue Nov 26 01:12:59 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:12:59 +1100
Subject: if <assignment>:
In-Reply-To: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A78B@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A78B@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <200211261713.00298.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:33, Delaney, Timothy wrote:
> The most common of these are = vs ==, and just about anything to do with
> pointer dereferencing.
There are some useful defensive techniques. I often test for equality to a 
constant. If you put the constant on the left side, the compiler will help 
you:
eg. if ( 0 == pointer) { }

> The next most common class of errors involve memory issues - dereferencing
> invalid pointers, double-freeing, failing to free memory, etc.
Memory checking tools seem to be grossly underused.

> ObRant: What the hell is the difference between an "implementation defined"
> feature, and an "undefined" feature? In both cases, a particular
> implementation is free to do whatever it wants. The only possible
> difference I can think of is that "implementation defined" implies that the
> implementation should at least try to do something useful ... and actually
> document what it does.
- From the Sep 2002 issue of "Linux Magazine" (the European one):, in relation 
to a C tutorial:
"The three phrases that should strike fear into the hear of any programmer are 
'implementation defined', 'unspecified' and 'undefined' .... Implementation 
defined means it is up the compiler vendor to pick a method, document it, and 
stick by it - at least within this particular version ... Unspecified means 
that the compiler writers know what will happen, but they haven't document 
it.... Undefined mena that anything can happen. And it means anything. The 
results need not adhere to logic, the expression in question, or even the day 
of the week... Suffice to say, you should never write code that relies on, 
expects, or follows any of these criteria".



- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov  9 02:27:38 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 08:27:38 +0100
Subject: Determining Presence Of GUI Support
References: <42aiqa.jp82.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <m3y983kxsl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> writes:

> Is there a portable method of determining whether the current runtime
> environment supports a GUI or text-based interface?  I would like to
> write a single program which autosenses the presentation environment
> and works accordingly.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "environment" and "supports GUI".
The environment may support a GUI, but you may not have the libraries,
or you may have a GUI, have the libraries, but your program may not be
prepared to use these libraries, and so on.

To verify whether you have Tk libraries, import Tkinter. If that gives
an ImportError, you don't have Tk libraries. Then, create an
Tkinter.Tk instance. If that gives a Tkinter.TclError, you cannot use
Tk as a GUI.

For other libraries, similar procedures apply.

HTH,
Martin



From bebert at tiscali.dk  Sat Nov 23 09:11:17 2002
From: bebert at tiscali.dk (Bjarke Dahl Ebert)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:11:17 +0100
Subject: Iteration of strings
References: <DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489@news010.worldonline.dk> <faWdnQY6h6rRT0OgXTWcqw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <x0MD9.31653$HU.2395886@news010.worldonline.dk>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:faWdnQY6h6rRT0OgXTWcqw at comcast.com...

> > Some function expects a list of strings,
> Here is the root of your problem.  In a real sense, Python functions
> have no expectation as to type.

Yes they do - the expectation is just not explicitly stated, and it is often
more "vague" than any simple formal type system could express.

> > This is unfortunate, because in a sense, a string is also a list of
> strings!
> Not just 'in a sense'.  Substituting 'sequence' for 'list', this is a
> defined feature of the anguage.  If one wants the polymorphism, this
> is fortunate, not unfortunate.  I consider being able to iterate
> through strings a great feature.

But even though we have dynamic types, there is nothing wrong with having
*strong* dynamic types, i.e. not anything applies to anything.
I don't want everything to automatically convert into something that any
given operation can work on. Then we end up as in Perl, where strings and
numbers are somewhat magically converted into each other.

> Polymorphism is part of the heart of the language.   An
> extra line of code here and there to limit it when not wanted is part
> of the price of the benefits.

Yes, it's probably good to explicitly limit the types of arguments (or other
objects gotten from "somewhere" during function execution). E.g., assert
isinstance(...).
That catches many error early in the call stack, instead of giving strange,
incomprehensible errors deeper down.

> And the trend is to increase it.  For
> instance, 'for key in somedict:' just became legal in 2.2.  It
> previously would have raised an exception.  So now you can also worry
> about what happens if 'somestringlist' is somehow passed in as a dict
> ;<).

Yes, that can lead to suprizes too. IMHO, it would be better to require the
more explicit "for key in somedict.iterkeys():".
But of course, the new syntax (or actually, semantics of dict.__iter__)
leads to more brevity, when we know what we are doing :-).


Bjarke






From wilk-spamout at flibuste.net  Tue Nov 19 17:45:03 2002
From: wilk-spamout at flibuste.net (William)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 23:45:03 +0100
Subject: wxPython crashing windows
References: <mailman.1037741907.7399.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87bs4lqivk.fsf@flibuste.net>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> writes:

> On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, trewornan wrote:
> 
> > Well the subject says it all - has anyone else found wxPython crashing 
> > windows (all the way to a blue screen).
> 
> No.

not more...
i had this problem with an old version of windows95. I had to
install the "MS Control Update"
http://wxpython.org/download.php#prerequisites

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net


From ulbi at ivs.tu-berlin.de  Mon Nov  4 10:55:19 2002
From: ulbi at ivs.tu-berlin.de (Andreas Ulbrich)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:55:19 +0100
Subject: problem's with strings
References: <Xns92BCAA1CFC4D0richardmertenswolfio@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <aq65aa$4e7$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>

Richard Mertens wrote:
> first problem:
> 
> I'd like to convert a text-file von unix to windows and vice versa
> 
> Do you know a solution for this
> 
> 
> When the python script is reading the text-file i have always the Nextline - 
> Character on the end. How do you I remove it?

from windows to unix:
somestring.replace('\r', '')

vice versa:
somestring.replace('\n', '\r\n')




From johs+n at ifi.uio.no  Sat Nov  9 09:29:36 2002
From: johs+n at ifi.uio.no (Johannes =?iso-8859-1?q?Gr=F8dem?=)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 15:29:36 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036805651.10967.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lz4raqrf3j.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>

* Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com>:

> But that's not going to be mainstream.  In a heterogeneous environment
> both Lisp and Smalltalk have serious issues.

This is really implementation-specific, not strictly language-
specific.  There are Common Lisps that integrate well with C.  There
are even Lisps that let you use inline-assembler and inline-C in your
Lisp-code.

-- 
Johannes Gr?dem <OpenPGP: 5055654C>


From boud at valdyas.org  Sun Nov  3 08:30:56 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 14:30:56 +0100
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <3dc3a6fd$0$84999$e4fe514c@dreader7.news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1036297041.11317.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dc52687$0$84997$e4fe514c@dreader7.news.xs4all.nl>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
>     Boudewijn> With Python, I'm using grep as my main refactoring tool --
>     Boudewijn> but I'm trying really hard to get into the habit of using
>     Boudewijn> bicyclerepairman (from emacs), which seems superior the
>     Java Boudewijn> tools I have used.
> 
> I thought I saw a refactoring editor project on SF some time ago which was
> written in and for Python.  SF's search tool isn't working for me at the
> moment.  Does anyone know if this project is still active?
> 

It that isn't bicyclerepairman, I wouldn't know. I try really
hard to remember to use bicyclerepairman (also Eric, a really
great debugger written in PyQt), but I'm so set in my ways that 
I very seldom use them...

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru  Tue Nov 26 12:13:12 2002
From: zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru (Lexy Zhitenev)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:13:12 +0300
Subject: wxPython Prob
References: <3DE3A017.AEE4CE2B@ipm.fhg.de>
Message-ID: <as0a39$88f$1@serv.vrn.ru>

"Markus von Ehr" <markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de> wrote:
news:3DE3A017.AEE4CE2B at ipm.fhg.de...

> There occurs the error that the bitmaps used in:
> images.getNewBitmap()
> images.getOpenBitmap()
> etc. are not found.
>
> (I imported images in the beginning.)
>
> Anyone knows the answer?
>
> Markus

The only reason I can thinlk of is that images are not from
%PYTHONPATH%\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\demo subdir.

I've tried the sample from wxPython demo. Everything is OK. Look at it.
Maybe, it will help




From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Fri Nov 15 06:03:13 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 11:03:13 GMT
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037219902.17042.python-list@python.org> <just-3E6E36.10585114112002@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1037311169.18432.python-list@python.org> <jpVA9.14198$Yw.601501@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <slrnat9kmq.13o.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <jpVA9.14198$Yw.601501 at news2.tin.it>, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Neil Schemenauer wrote:
>> Just wrote:
>>> IMO the best idiom for this currently is
>>> 
>>>   def foo():
>>>       while 0:
>>>           yield "whatever"
>> 
>> This whole discussion is silly, IMHO.  The best idiom is:
>> 
>>     def foo():
>>         return []
> 
> Actually, I suspect returning () instead -- empty tuple, not
> empty list -- is even better.  To wit:
>
> [snip proof] 
>
> admittedly the difference is going to be even less in 2.3,
> but still, it's about 100 milliseconds per million empties one
> returns -- a few billions, and we'd be talking about REAL
> performance issues.  Surely any implementation of something
> as frequent as "returning an empty iterable" cannot aspire
> to the title of "the best" with that sort of performance hit.

Yeah, it's quite likely that this will be the bottleneck of your app. That's
why you should squeeze the last percent or so of optimization out and return an
empty string:

[Python 2.2.2/win32]
D:\tmp>python ba.py
emptylist 1.71
emptytuple 1.16
emptystring 1.15
emptylist 1.72
emptytuple 1.16
emptystring 1.15
emptylist 1.72
emptytuple 1.16
emptystring 1.15

No /dev/emoticon on Windows, either.
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov  9 16:54:41 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 13:54:41 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <eppstein-DC177C.17122508112002@news.service.uci.edu> <7h3adkiyjjr.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqjfjg$p41$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <3DCD8421.283D193F@alcyone.com>

Ng Pheng Siong wrote:

> According to Michael Hudson  <mwh at python.net>:
>
> >  { Java, Python, ocaml, Common Lisp, C++, perl }
> 
> What language is this funny looking list in? ;-)

It's standard set notation from mathematics :-).

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I'm paranoid.  But am I paranoid enough?
\__/ Louis Wu
    Official Omega page / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/omega/
 The official distribution page for the popular Roguelike, Omega.


From claird at lairds.com  Wed Nov 20 13:02:49 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:02:49 -0000
Subject: Updating A Tkinter Window every 100 ms?
References: <b4d1dd0c.0211191629.3454e274@posting.google.com> <m3vg2s8wza.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <utnji9erourk9b@corp.supernews.com>

In article <m3vg2s8wza.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>,
Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>josiah7 at hotmail.com (Josiah) writes:
>
>> Is there a better way? Why does the "lift()" function not work with
>> "self.master.lift()"?
>
>Because self has no attribute master. I suggest doing
>
>self.master = master
>
>inside __init__.
			.
			.
			.
Also, I suspect there's a better way to achieve what Josiah
*really* wants; I just don't know what the latter is.  Is it
to make modal dialogues, or prevent user resizing, or ...?
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From sandysj at juno.com  Mon Nov 11 11:16:43 2002
From: sandysj at juno.com (Jeff Sandys)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:16:43 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3DCBDAAD.AD27DFEE@juno.com> <80a8af7d.0211081147.15cfd915@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DCFD7EB.D1A74FC1@juno.com>

Klaus Momberger wrote:
> Jeff Sandys <sandysj at juno.com> wrote in message news:<3DCBDAAD.AD27DFEE at juno.com>...
> > One reason is that Python has a lower threshold for learning.
> > We can get a non-programmer productive in Python in 8-16 hours
> >
> Pardon me, but I totally disagree on that.
> A *non-programmer* *productive* in Python within 8 hours ??? Gimme a break.

The *non-programmers* are computer and unix literate engineers and
scientist.
And *productive* means able to write a simple file manipulation script
on their own.
Our *trainer* is a computer scientist/programmer with good communication
skills.

7th and 8th graders can start writing functions after about 4-6 hours
and classes 
after 8-12 hours of computer lab training.  What I am talking about is
the 
threshold of productivity, when people can write a useful program on
their own,
not when someone can write a full feature 1000+ lines of code
application.  
These times are from my personal experience, what is your experience?

My point is that the sooner someone can do something productive on their
own 
the more likely they are to continue using the tool, and Python has a
lower 
threshold that Lisp or Scheme. (It's just my opinion, I could be wrong)

Thanks,
Jeff Sandys


From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Nov 22 16:38:44 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 21:38:44 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de>:
| Donn Cave wrote:
|
|> The procedural aspect of Python is also natural but not necessarily
|> benign.  This is basically the linear descendent of assembly language,
|> with variables for registers and other superficial differences;  the
|> alternative (or one of them, anyway) is the equational reasoning you
|> find in functional and logic programming languages.  It's arguably
|> true that the normal programmer can more easily conceive a procedural
|> solution to a problem, but it is not true that this solution will
|> naturally be robust and maintainable.
| [...]
|
| That's even true for code that superficially looks like OOP. An 
| extremely well-presented example and discussion of this can be found at 
| http://csis.pace.edu/~bergin/patterns/ppoop.html

That's an interesting read, all right, but ``procedural'' is used
there in a different sense, I believe, than I intended it - in fact,
almost the opposite.  In the sense I'm using it, OOP _is_ procedural,
or nearly always.  By some accounts, that may not have been the original
idea, but the alternative (OO that is not procedural) seems to be
difficult to find or describe.

Probably the best counter example, of a language that emphasizes
what I'm calling ``equational'' rather than procedural, is Haskell.
It's the most prominent example of a ``non-strict, purely functional''
programming language (``non-strict'' is a queer term that probably
doesn't mean what you think.)  Haskell has a type class system that
supports polymorphism, but it's no OOPL.  There's an O'Haskell offshoot
that I find really interesting (though evidently I'm alone on that,
because it seems to be a dead project), and it really illustrates the
point by adding OO to Haskell and not making it a bit like any ordinary
OOPL.

Any real program will fall somewhere in between - nothing stops me
from writing C code that is purely functional in places, and no
Haskell program can do anything without resorting to some fundamentally
procedural code to put it in motion.  But you can expect to see a
strongly procedural approach in OOPLs, because the object is all
about encapsulating program state - and that program state is the
stuff of procedural programming.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From usenet at coastergames.net  Sat Nov 16 17:37:45 2002
From: usenet at coastergames.net (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:37:45 GMT
Subject: Formatted Output - Floating Point Numbers
References: <d8d62a73.0211161321.12603c31@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ZMzB9.1749$%32.140030@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

David Marshall wrote:

> Im new to python and I was wondering if anybody could tell me how to
> modify the output to only obtaiu 2 decimal places.
> 
> the section of my program that needs modification
> 
> display.divide(57,7) # I only want 2 decimal places returned
> 
> I have a module called display and my function divide() returns the
> result of the two numbers divided. However, I only want this number to
> two decimal places.
> 
> I have tried: round(display.divide(57,7) [,2])
> But this results in an error message saying invalid syntax
> 
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated
Use the % operator.

IE: 

print "%.2f" % yourFloat

-- 
Tyler Eaves


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Nov 14 04:34:21 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:34:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Newbie question
References: <aqvlp2$rtb$1@tilde.itg.ti.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92C65FDF4F532duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Firdaus Janoos" <fjanoos at yahoo.com> wrote in
news:aqvlp2$rtb$1 at tilde.itg.ti.com: 

>     I know this is kind of dumb, but i cant figure out how to execute
>     a .py 
> file (not a module - a pgm ) from IDLE. I am unable to "load" the
> file. The IDLE menu has options for
> File/Open
> and File/Open Module
> and neither of these open and load the file I want to execute. They
> just exhibit some pretty strange behavior.
> Can anyone give me a clue ?

File/Open lets you open a script or a module for editing by specifying its 
filename.

File/Open Module lets you open a module for editing by specifying the name 
of the module. For this to work the module source has to be in a directory 
in sys.path.

Once you have a module or script open for editing, 'Edit/Run script' lets
you run the currently open file as a script (even if you opened the file 
using Open Module).

If you just want to run a script then it is often easiest to start it from 
outside Idle, even if you are using Idle to edit it at the time. Just save 
and then start the script from your usual command line or gui shell.

One word of warning, Idle doesn't run the script in a separate process, so 
after you have run a script once, any variables it created will be left 
lying around. This can have implications when you run the script again. 
This is especially true if the script is a unit test which imports the 
module that it tests as the module to be tested will not be reloaded unless 
you or your script do it explicitly. Also, should the script lock up or 
crash the Idle environment will go with it.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Tue Nov 19 15:23:51 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:23:51 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <44d4f61c.0211181708.465f5838@posting.google.com> <3DDA7385.2020609@nyc.rr.com> <eppstein-C621D0.09384719112002@news.service.uci.edu> <y1wC9.3258$jt3.1116@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com> <eppstein-3A0E1A.11383119112002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3DDA9EB4.8020802@nyc.rr.com>


David Eppstein wrote:
> In article <y1wC9.3258$jt3.1116 at newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>,
>  Steven Rumbalski <srumbalski at prodigy.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>David Eppstein wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>The numbers I hear are that CL runs on average 20% slower than C.
>>>
>>>This is after how many decades of Lisp compiler development?
>>>
>>
>>Sheesh.  How long have C compilers been around?
> 
> 
> Not as long as Lisp by a long shot,..

Lisp has been around a long time, but how long have Lisp compilers been 
around?

> and C was designed to be easy to 
> compile.

Hunh? That was my point. Compiled CL being 20% slower than C has nothing 
to do with the ability of CL compiler writers, it has to do with late 
binding and dynamism in general.

I mean, this whole digression is silly. CL compiler writers have access 
to the research on compiler design. And like I said, apparently they 
know what they are doing based on CL being almost as fast as (portable) 
assembler.

The digression is silly for another reason: it started with someone 
saying Lispers should not call other languages slow. Whether you like 
respect CL compiler writers or not, compiled CL is almost as fast as C.

so.... slow! slow! slow! :)

Mind you, slow is fine given the performance of today's systems. I mean, 
it's relative, and a relatively slow language with other virtues is 
great if it is fast enough. My apps tend to use as much speed as they 
can get, but a whole lot get more than enough horsepower from today's 
boxes, so why not use that surplus to power an only relatively slow 
language.

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From stuart at bmsi.com  Thu Nov  7 22:31:18 2002
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 03:31:18 GMT
Subject: Getting SSL certificate
Message-ID: <aeGy9.15988$6b.572415@news2.east.cox.net>

The httplib modules supports SSL, but does not check certificates.  Fine,
but I couldn't find a way to get the server certificate to check it
myself.  How do I get the server certificate from an HTTPSConnection
object?  I dug down to where it calls the _socket C module, and still
didn't find anything that would fetch this info for me.

For this application, I just need to check for a specific name and
specific signer. I suppose checking that the signature is valid could get
involved, but I can't try until I can get the certificate.  And attempting
to check with false positives is no worse than not checking at all.

Furthermore, when playing with urllib, proxies don't seem to work with the
https protocol.  It passes the "https://host.com" url to the proxy server,
instead of using the proxy CONNECT request needed for SSL. Am I doing
something wrong?  I set the proxy like this:

export https_proxy="http://myproxyhost:8081"

(And http_proxy works as expected.)

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.


From jon at csh.rit.edu  Sat Nov 16 16:57:36 2002
From: jon at csh.rit.edu (Jon Parise)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:57:36 -0500
Subject: Calling local functions from the C API
Message-ID: <20021116215735.GA17174@csh.rit.edu>

This seems like it should be a common, easy task, so perhaps I'm
complicating the problem.

I'm familiar with calling functions using PyObject_CallObject().
I generally use PyImport_ImportModule() to import a callable object
from some module before executing it.

However, I'm unclear as to how to go about getting a callable object
from the current local scope (i.e. not from a named module).

Help, please. =)

-- 
Jon Parise (jon at csh.rit.edu)  ::  http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 17 23:03:30 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 04:03:30 GMT
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <ar4rgh$nj2$1@panix3.panix.com> <ar5r65$uq6$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD85526.6020606@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <ar9oqi$oil$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:49:10 +1300, Greg Ewing <see_reply_address at something.invalid> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>> I assumed that it is possible to release all references to an imported module, so that
>> the garbage collector can eliminate it from memory
>
>
>That won't happen -- the module remains in the global
>list of modules maintained by the interpreter, even if
>all other references to it go away.
>
You clipped my footnote section and reference, which I thought
indicated that I saw that that is the way it ordinarily works:

"""
 >>>
 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.modules.get('math')
 >>> pi = __import__('math').pi
 import math # builtin
 >>> sys.modules.get('math')
 <module 'math' (built-in)>
 >>> del sys.modules['math']
 >>> sys.modules.get('math')
 >>> import math
 import math # previously loaded (math)
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Is there no way to do a private throwaway import?
"""

So, on to the final question, which I'd still be interested in an answer to.
BTW, to me, irreversibly tangled loading operations smack of problems that
you "solve" by rebooting windows.

IOW, IMO there ought to be a way to do a temporary global-side-effect-free
import and delete all traces of its having been done -- without restarting
the interpreter or invoking a second interpreter instance.

After all, it's basically just instantiating an instance of a special class,
isn't it? I would think if I dig in the import code there should be a place
where an isolated instance is created, before it's irreversibly (?) hooked into
the system.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  1 11:49:28 2002
From: Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com (Mark)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:49:28 -0500
Subject: PyQwt
References: <3znw9.43274$iV1.36511@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <3DC2102F.8080706@SPAMnwinternet.com>
Message-ID: <apubao$coe$1@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>

Jim wrote:
 
> I don't know how gentoo packages PyQt, but it isn't possible
> any longer to build PyQt without the sip files (unless someone

Ah, this might be the problem.  If the PyQT distribution has the .sip
files but they aren't necessary after PyQT is built, they may not
get installed anywhere.  Might that be the case?
 
> If you have a working 'locate' or 'find' you should be able to
> determine where qtmod.sip is located if you have them, and the

Yup.  I rebuilt the locate database (updatedb) and then locate'd and
nada.

> 'import qt' in the Python interpreter if PyQt is installed
> correctly.

'import qt' works.

> files to build. You can usually get a message to Gerard on
> the PyKDE mailing list (which also serves for PyQt, sip and
> some related stuff) at:
> 
> http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde
> 
> and there should be other PyQwt users on the list as well.
> 
> 
> Jim

Thanks a ton.  I'll get in touch with that list if it isn't the problem
I mentioned above.

Regards,
Mark


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 12 15:32:14 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:32:14 -0800
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ?
References: <44ee1dc2.0211120501.2c9e3215@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <egorqa.sq3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 
12 November 2002 05:01 am:

> with Re : in Subject line, with groups.google, it DIDN'T place in the
> thread, but as a separate message( new thread, NOT answer In a thread
> ). Now trying with NO Re : in the subject

        Oh, main thing I notice is that there are no /references/ in your 
header, which means that it is considered the start of a thread...

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From marklists at mceahern.com  Fri Nov 15 11:17:11 2002
From: marklists at mceahern.com (Mark McEahern)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:17:11 -0600
Subject: wrapping all class methods
In-Reply-To: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com>

[Robin Becker]
> What's the 'proper' pythonic way to do this kind of global wrapping?

Hi Robin, I don't know the answer, but I think aspect-oriented programming
provides some ideas.  Pedro Rodriguez has posted working code for doing AOP
to the list:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2002.01.22.15.52.49.832551.1637%40c
lub-internet.fr

Perhaps, if nothing else, Pedro's code may give you some ideas?  I'd be very
interested to hear what you come up with.

What you're trying to do can be done with metaclasses fairly easily--but
that requires (afaik) modifying the modules you want to wrap.  Which makes
it not a very good strategy for AOP (as Pedro has pointed out).  See this
thread:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1025278420.26105.python-list%40
python.org

Cheers,

// mark

-




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 14:12:55 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:12:55 -0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqgka6$t8j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqh2bo$7ti$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Eddie Corns wrote:

>>I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
>>between Python and Common Lisp (
>>http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
>>wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
> 
> My opinion (the short version anyway) is that because Python is a lot easier
> to learn and use.  It's a bit like the difference between a point and click
> camera and a 'real' one - to use a 'real' camera for even a simple photo you
> need to understand the whole biz.  However, unlike some languages I won't
> mention, Python does its best to give the max. power (of Scheme,Haskell
> etc.) for the max. ease of use.

Flawed analogy, I think. 

I'd rather say: python is like a modern SLR with full auto modes: you can use 
it like a point'n'shoot, but still get very good results and the benefit of 
good lenses and a sophisticated exposure system. But once you move the dial 
to the 'manual' zone (P,Tv,Av,M for the photo-buffs) you are on your own, 
with as much control as you want (from simple adjustments in P to full manual 
in M).

So in python the beginner feels comfortable, but he can grow into 
sophisticated things without the tool _ever_ getting in his way. That's why 
the point'n'shoot analogy is bad: in that case, the tool gets in your way and 
limits what you can do. 

If you want, Pascal is the point'n'shoot of programming languages: easy for 
beginners, utterly useless for serious work (yes, I wrote tons of pascal back 
in the day,  so I know what I'm talking about).

Lisp feels more like a viewcamera. You can't get _anything_ done unless you 
understand the fundamentals very well. But if you do, there are some very 
fancy things you can do.

Cheers,

f.


From martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi  Wed Nov 27 21:22:13 2002
From: martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi (Martti Halminen)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 04:22:13 +0200
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3DE57DD5.B24BC297@kolumbus.fi>

Robin Munn wrote:

> What I'm going off of here is my memory of having to count and re-count
> parentheses as I was writing to make sure that I was putting in the
> right number of closing parens to finish a structure. With
> color-highlighting, I could at least be certain *at a glance* of which
> paren was lining up with which. Yes, I know I could use % in vi, and
> that there is some equivalent function in emacs, but that would be much
> slower than just seeing it.

Whenever I put the cursor next to a closing paren in my emacs, it also
highlights the corresponding opening paren. Have you managed to turn
show-paren-mode off somehow? A more visible version of this happens if
you do (setq show-paren-style 'expression) in your .emacs or the
*scratch* buffer.

> And no, I haven't needed indentation-based highlighting in Python. But
> what I'm talking about isn't really indentation-based, it's
> nesting-level based. And the reason for it is because I still don't
> understand how to indent *properly* in Lisp, and can't find a good
> reference on how to indent properly. Color highlighting would at least
> give me the visual cues I need until I learn to indent.

While there is a relatively standard style in Lisp indentation, it is so
common that most places don't bother to document it :-\

http://www.lisp.org/table/style.htm has a paragraph about it, not very
thorough.

In practice, CL programmers mostly use whatever indentation Emacs does:
the programmer doesn't make indentation decisions, just hits ctrl-j, TAB
or M-x indent-sexp as needed and looks what happens. If the result looks
unexpected (to a practiced eye), then it's time to start checking what
went wrong.
[By the time you start defining your own macros you'll probably want to
modify their indentation, but at that time you're likely familiar with
the style already.]

--


From slawus at imf.au.dk  Fri Nov  1 03:14:03 2002
From: slawus at imf.au.dk (Slawus)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:14:03 +0100
Subject: MS Windows + Python + VTK -- how to install?
Message-ID: <aptd47$q52$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>

Hello!
How to make VTK (www.vtk.org) working with Python on Windows?
What should I do to make this commands working:

 >>> from libVTKCommonPython import *
 >>> from libVTKGraphicsPython import *

?

I have installed Python 2.2.2, NumPy and SciPy
and they are working well.

-- 
Slawomir Razniewski.



From rmunn at pobox.com  Sat Nov 30 13:34:10 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:34:10 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <96u4sa.llp.ln@cvs>
Message-ID: <slrnaui1cc.80b.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Max Ischenko <max at malva.com.uaREMOVE.IT> wrote:
> 
>  Robin Munn wrote:
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
>> where each indentation level would be a different color (foreground?
>> background?). I wonder how hard it would be to modify lisp.vim to allow
>> this? Well, that's not a project I really have time for at the moment;
>> maybe later on.
> 
> This's been done already:
> 
>=== from  Vim/after/syntax/lisp.vim
[snip the code that's exactly what I was looking for]

Fantastic! I looked in the Vim syntax files but didn't think about the
after directory. Time to take another look at Lisp, methinks...

By the way, for the several people up-thread who mentioned
paren-highlighting after typing: you're right, that would make for a
good solution to figuring out how many right-parens to type in any given
situation. I still think that color-highlighting of parens will be
useful as well, though, in one specific case: scanning the code you've
just typed (without moving the cursor) to see the structure. If you're a
veteran Lisper, you'll have used proper indentation, of course; but if
you're a newbie, or if you're reading code written by a newbie, you
can't necessarily trust that indentation matches actual code structure.
In that case, color-highlighting could be *very* useful for speeding up
the time it takes to verify the code.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From wganz at texoma.net  Tue Nov 12 10:19:27 2002
From: wganz at texoma.net (Will Ganz)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:19:27 -0600
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
In-Reply-To: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <OPEDLDOFHCDKBPBIHMHFCEIKDEAA.wganz@texoma.net>

:> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
:> a single line of code.

Perl is like some of the doctor's writing that I try to decipher at the
hospital. Great for writing prescriptions but invoke divine intervention to
read more than a couple of sentences. In fact, doctors will ask nurses to
interpret other doctor's writings to read the progress notes.*

The same with Perl. One liners and anything less than 100 lines you can do
in Perl, but get Python for anything that you are going to have to maintain
later. After having dealt with 15000 line Perl 'programs' with all global
variables and documented solely by "self documenting variable names"
(?quick, what is the difference in $filedate, $FileDate, and $Filedate?)
Python is quite the relief to use.

* estimated 45,00~>98,000 Americans die annually from medication errors v.s.
15,980 Americans murdered in the year 2001





From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov  8 07:44:14 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 06:44:14 -0600
Subject: Upload file with multipart/formdata
In-Reply-To: <aqga8k$69g$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <aqga8k$69g$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <15819.45470.706423.583305@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Thomas> I want to upload a binary file with the script from:
    Thomas> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/146306

    Thomas> ASCII files get uploaded without problem, but binary data gets
    Thomas> cut before all 0xA1 bytes.

Just taking an educated guess since I can't get to ActiveState's website to
browse that recipe, but...

Open the file in binary mode, e.g.

    f = file("somefile", "rb")

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Nov 28 09:49:30 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:49:30 +0000
Subject: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
References: <3DE4448E.5080201@attglobal.net>
 <mailman.1038388238.11306.python-list@python.org>
 <3b091a1c.0211280411.7ee5443a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <k26I6eA6zi59EwCH@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

A bit off topic, but using the newer features of browsers and
dynapi.sf.net it's possible to get statefull behaviour on the browser
using CGI without flushing the current page using javascript.

I've been using a python cgi backend to interrogate a db to produce
slices of very long dropdowns.

Under the hood dynapi is using layers or ilayers and reading documents,
one of the leading developers, Raymond Irving, claims


>Robin,
>
>The IOElement has some new features that you're going
>to really love! You don't have to call
>"dynapi.onLoad(myOnLoad);" any more, infact you'll be
>able to make synchronous calls! Even better is to
>ability to create a "web service" and call it's
>functions using dynapi!
>
>example:
>
>var result=myService.getUsers();
>// getUsers is a remote method on a server
-- 
Robin Becker


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Mon Nov 25 17:40:00 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:40:00 -0600
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302F64853@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Jan Decaluwe [mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 4:39 PM
> 
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> > 
> > So, to wrap an arbitrary object X in such a way that X's special
> > methods will be used by any operator, you need to ensure you do
> > the wrapping with a _class_ that exposes said special methods.
> > That's generally easiest to do with a factory function with a
> > nested class that uses inheritance, but you have many other choices
> > depending on what exactly you're trying to accomplish.
> 
> Mm, I think I see, thanks for that. (I'll try again to 
> understand this from the documentation.) However, if I use
> inheritance from an immutable type, the subtype is automatically
> immutable also, right?


Maybe not...
Mind you, I don't know why someone would want to do this.

>>> class MuTint(int):
	def __init__(self):
		self._items = {}
	def __getitem__(self, item):
		return self._items[item]
	def __setitem__(self, item, value):
		self._items[item] = value
	def __delitem__(self, item):
		del self._items[item]

		
>>> m = MuTint()
>>> m
0
>>> m["hello"] = 2
>>> m["goodbye"] = 3
>>> m
0
>>> print m
0
>>> m["hello"]
2



> So I wanted mutability, I'm back to delegation ... and apparently
> stuck with new-style classes ???
> 
> Jan

But what's to great about old-style classes?

-gustavo



From acalcium at aol.com  Thu Nov  7 05:38:37 2002
From: acalcium at aol.com (ACalcium)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 10:38:37 GMT
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
References: <mailman.1036630990.6540.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20021107053837.29445.00002985@mb-mg.aol.com>

>fall. The only thing that
>bothers me about Python for teaching is the lack of enforced private
>members for classes. As an

Why can u teach this in CS2 when they learn
their 2nd programming language?

I think Python as a first language is a good idea.
They can always build on this knowledge.


From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 13 00:42:31 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 05:42:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037159000.15424.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqsoo7$v8$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> wrote:
> People make frequent mistakes with inline assignment in other languages
> (e.g. C), so it shouldn't be allowed.

You'll be wanting to throw out all manner of things on that basis, since
there's nothing of much use that hasn't been the source of problems for
some.  I know, you have to draw the line somewhere, but to me this seems
like a good deal of value to lose for what IME is little gain in
idiot-proofing.  I can agree that the value seems to be lower in Python in
that the need for this arises less often than in, say, C.  I haven't yet
decided if I think that's due more to the language itself or to the way the
lack of operator= has led to the construction of facilities to make it
unnecessary for common uses.  :-/

Mind, if the real answer is "Because Guido doesn't like it", I can reconcile
myself to that.  I'm just wondering if there's some other, more articulable,
reasoning at work.  (I guess I am saying that I don't consider "people make
mistakes" a reason, at least not much of one.  Possibly I have, for whatever
reason, had a great deal less trouble with this than average.  (hmmm,
average *what*, exactly?))

> I don't think that indentation has anything to do with this.

Think about the straightforward implementation of this in legal Python with
less undersized indentation than I used before:

	for l in lines:
		m = re1.match(l)
		if m:
			... process type 1
		else:
			m = re2.match(l)
			if m:
				... process type 2
			else:
				m = re3.match(l)
				if m:
					... process type 3

It interacts in that the non-operator assignment makes it imposible to use
elif, so that each case has to buy another indentation level.  And, yes,
that could be avoided by repeating the match for the case that succeeded,
but that seems about equally ugly to me:

	if re1.match(l):
		m = re1.match(l)
		...
	elif re2.match(l):
		m = re2.match(l)
		...

> I'd write that as:
> 
> def process_type_1(first, second, ...):
>    process type 1 record ...
> 
> def process_type_2(first, second, ...):
>    process type 2 record ...
> 
> processing_rules = [(r'....', process_type_1),
>                          (r'....', process_type_2),
>                    ...]
> 
> 
> compiled_rules = [(exp.compile(), func) for (exp, func) in
> processing_rules]
> 
> for l in file.readlines():
>    for exp, func in compiled_rules:
>        match = exp.match(l)
>        if match is not None:
>             apply(func, m.groups())
>             break

Yes, that approach occurred to me.  It seemed, and still seems, like a great
deal of overhead and effort for little if any gain in clarity, although it
certainly does solve the marching right off the screen problem.

> Notice that:
> - it is very easy to add new record types

You have two things that have to be added for each new case: a regexp and a
code block.  This doesn't allow much if any better propinquity of
corresponding regexes and code; neither does the savings in explicit logic
boilerplate appear to outweigh the function-form bolierplate it requires. 
Now, if Python had something like lambda that could be used to define a real
function, not just an expression's worth of code, I might like this better,
since then the regex and code could actually be brought together.  But it
doesn't.

More generally, making it easier to add cases is not itself an advantage
here.  And adding generality is not always a win, since there's usually some
cost... as I know too well, because I am prone to err in that direction
myself.  :-)

> - record processing is more modular

In general, yes.  Not significant: the processing is usually very simple,
along the lines of reordering the fields, dropping a few, maybe pasting two
together.

> - the code is pretty simple

But not IMO as simple as the straightforward way of writing it, at least not
at the scale involved here.


The average number of patterns and rules for each file's data is probably
under two; there are a great many whose processing is really trivial, and
the combined recognition of a valid datat line and parsing by the regex is
the real meat of it.  I've long since refactored this to make those cases
quite small - a list of parameters and the stylized parsing function that is
on the order of one screen of code.  But there are quite a lot of files, and
some of them are a good deal messier, and it is these latter that I have
mostly described - because they were where the problem became noticeable.  I
think the worst have about six pattern/action pairs (although there may be
worse ones yet to come to my attention).  Anyway, each file is handled
separately, so adding a new file type doesn't touch any existing code at
all for any of these approaches.


BTW, I'd appreciate not being emailed a reply unless you're not posting
publicly; that's just the way I am.  Thanks.

(hmmm, gotta migrate the random quote hack over to this machine...)


From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  4 23:23:52 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (xinghua shi)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:23:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: More about simple question
In-Reply-To: <001e01c2847f$96e07280$ba01010a@local>
Message-ID: <20021105042352.48464.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com>


 
>
> import sys,os,string 
> 
> pid = os.getpid() 
> 
> filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid) 
> 
> print filename 
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^Name error: name "filename" is not defined. 
> 

Actually, I have a file named "ld.stat.py" which is:
def main():

import sys,os,string 
 pid = os.getpid()  
filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid) 
print filename 

And then I typed:

python ld.stat.py

And I use python2.2. Besides, if I want to run the file "ld.stat.py" by typing "ld.stat" directly, how to do with this? Thanks so much for your help. :)

 



---------------------------------
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From news at titanic.co.uk  Sun Nov 10 08:14:00 2002
From: news at titanic.co.uk (Simon Faulkner)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:14:00 +0000
Subject: CGI download CSV
References: <ujcssu89sl9gd6chg1n42hm4o7m2819gje@4ax.com> <3DCE4FD6.1050808@gazeta.pl>
Message-ID: <0rmssug4b9o9uld7kn9mqg8bule76i2qdv@4ax.com>

If I can get this to work it will be great.

In Mozilla the file open in a browser rather than offering to save to
disk

In IE the file does nopt open.

I will read a little more...


Simon


On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:23:50 +0100, bromden <bromden at gazeta.pl> wrote:

><meta http-equiv="Refresh" content="1; url=http://hostname/csv/a.csv">



From voodoo1man at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 13 18:44:19 2002
From: voodoo1man at hotmail.com (Vlad S.)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 15:44:19 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqltkt$14s$1@news.hccnet.nl> <76c4da8e.0211101357.6a804d20@posting.google.com> <aqnv3e$ejs$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <76c4da8e.0211131544.4b90e1fe@posting.google.com>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote in message news:<aqnv3e$ejs$1 at news.hccnet.nl>...
> On 10 Nov 2002 13:57:37 -0800, voodoo1man at hotmail.com (Vlad S.) wrote:
> 
> <snip some descriptions of the devastating effects of compromising
> Lisp>
> 
> >the language, and get a YAPFL (yet another pseudo functional
> >language). Last time I checked, Python fit into that category, so you
> >already have what you say you want.
> 
> Without confirming that I want that, I would like to mention that
> functional languages can't have side effects. So in order to generate
> any output at all some concessions have to be made. Strictly speaking
> Lisp is not a functional language. 

My definition of a pseudo-functional language is one that implements
the idea of first-class and anonymous functions (although the former
is implied by the latter) and supports recursion (which, well, implies
that it has functions =]). Continuations also seem to be becoming
popular in these languages. I think Python pretty much satisfies the
idea of a pseudo-functional language (admittedly from the little
textbook-exercise experience I have with it, and the one look I took
at stackless python), so Pythoners already have some of the major
language construct benefits that Lispers enjoy, without the
parentheses. Enjoy your syntax while you can, because judging where
the "industry" is going (Java, XML and friends), in 10 years
everything will look like Intercal.

> To get at a strictly functionanl
> language - now switching into science fiction mode - a possible
> strategy could use an idea found in one of A.E. van Vogt's novel's.
> Here a description of a part of the universe is made inside a human
> brain which is indistinguishable from the real thing up until the
> twentieth's decimal. This enables the main character to effect changes
> in the universe because at that level of equality the description of
> the universe and the universe itself cannot occupy separate locations.

No need for all that =]. You can just use Church numerals (
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_integer ), and that satisfies my
definition, although I'm not very demanding. By that virtue Unlambda (
http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/madore/programs/unlambda/ ) claims
to be Turing complete.


From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 27 15:26:12 2002
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 12:26:12 -0800
Subject: Database Programming
References: <3875fcac.0211260752.60e2e457@posting.google.com> <as0asg$90a$1@serv.vrn.ru>
Message-ID: <899f842.0211271226.703db9c@posting.google.com>

> Unfortunately, you'll definitely need a third-party library for just being
> able to make use of DB. Then you can write some classes to wrap around this
> library, tune them for your needs and use it just like any other Python
> program.

What about dbi, ZODB & ZEO, And Gadfly (a small python rdbms)?


From bromden at gazeta.pl  Sun Nov 10 12:11:16 2002
From: bromden at gazeta.pl (bromden)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:11:16 +0100
Subject: CGI download CSV
References: <ujcssu89sl9gd6chg1n42hm4o7m2819gje@4ax.com> <3DCE4FD6.1050808@gazeta.pl> <0rmssug4b9o9uld7kn9mqg8bule76i2qdv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3DCE9334.2000308@gazeta.pl>

> In Mozilla the file open in a browser rather than offering to save to
> disk
> In IE the file does nopt open.

it depends on a browser's settings,
nothing to do with server side

-- 
bromden
GCS d- s+: a- C++$ UL(++++) P-- L++ E--- W+(++) N++ o? K? w(++) !O M--
!V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP+ t--- 5? X- R- tv-- b++>+++ DI- D- G e+++ h-- r- y?



From blalor+dated+1037892895.0fc75e at ithacabands.org  Sat Nov 16 10:34:51 2002
From: blalor+dated+1037892895.0fc75e at ithacabands.org (Brian Lalor)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:34:51 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Python instead of php
In-Reply-To: <20021116153007.GA2139@lilith.ghaering.test>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211160834340.28287-100000@gonzo.ithacabands.org>

On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> > With the recent release of a standalone ZPT/TAL interpreter, I think replacing
> > PHP with Python is easier than ever.  Out of the box you can interpret TAL
> > templates with relative ease simply by passing in an execution context (which
> > in my case was just a dict).  Its well worth a look.
> 
> Do you have an URL for the standalone ZPT/TAL?

http://www.zope.org/Members/4am/ZPT

--
      Brian Lalor                 |    http://introducingthelalors.org/
  blalor at ithacabands.org (email)  |  blalor at jabber.ithacabands.org (jabber)
                       N33?27.369' W111?56.304' (Earth)





From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Fri Nov 15 04:20:12 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:20:12 +0100
Subject: tkinter - tk window remains
References: <mailman.1037309571.23691.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar2dn3$fuo$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>

Dubois, Jeff wrote:
>   I am using Tkinter to bring up a ScrolledText window.
>   However, when the user closes the window by clicking on the X button in
> the upper right of the ScrolledText window the "tk" window remains.  Based
> on documentation I have read I have tried using the .withdraw() method in
> hopes the tk window would disappear.  However the tk window still remains.
> The code I am using is:
> 
>                 rootWin = Tk()
>                 rootWin.withdraw()
>                 st = ScrolledText(master=rootWin)
>                 st.pack(side=TOP, expand=1, fill=BOTH)
>                 st.insert(END, "\n\n\n\n       THIS IS MAIN WINDOW!\n")
>                 rootWin.mainloop()
> 
>   I am using python2.1 on an Windows NT operating system.

Where did you get your ScrolledText class? Even the one delivered with 
Tkinter (which is utterly broken and that you definetely shouldn't use) 
doesn't show this behaviour. Apparently, the one you're using is quite 
broken if it opens a new window. The st.pack stuff should create the 
ScrolledText widget in the "tk" window, so you shouldn't have to do a 
rootWin.withdraw().

My advice(s) would be:

1/ Create the ScrolledText with ScrolledText(rootWin) instead of 
ScrolledText(master=rootWin). The "master=" stuff is not needed and can 
lead to problems like yours

2/ Use a better ScrolledText class, like the one in Pmw (see 
http://pmw.sourceforge.net). And I'm quite sure you'll want all the other 
classes in Pmw too...!

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From jorgencederberg at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  5 08:21:31 2002
From: jorgencederberg at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Cederberg?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:21:31 +0100
Subject: bug report w\o registering
References: <mailman.1036471806.10073.python-list@python.org> <aq8cmh$gcq$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <wBPx9.2221$DQ5.1955@news.get2net.dk>

"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote in message news:aq8cmh$gcq$1 at news.hccnet.nl...
> On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:49:20 +1100, "Delaney, Timothy"
> <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
> 
> >> From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl [mailto:anton at vredegoor.doge.nl]
> >> 
> >> Here's a bug report. I don't want to register at SourceForge now
> >> (browser settings etc.). Sorry for the inconvenience.
> >
> >If you do not submit to sourceforge, the bug report *will* be lost.
> 
> If you do not read the traceback you will not detect the bug.

If read the traceback, and there is no bug. Extract from the Library reference:


> 
> Anton.
> 
> Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
> >>> import os,popen2
> >>> infile,outfile = os.popen2("dir","b",-1)
> >>> outfile,infile = popen2.popen2("dir","b",-1)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in ?
>     outfile,infile = popen2.popen2("dir","b",-1)
>   File "D:\PYTHON22\lib\popen2.py", line 123, in popen2
>     w, r = os.popen2(cmd, mode, bufsize)
> TypeError: popen2() argument 2 must be string, not int
> >>>


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov  4 00:45:13 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 05:45:13 GMT
Subject: import Image vs from PIL import Image vs import PIL.Image
References: <aq4uo1$68o$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <aq51h9$chg$0@216.39.172.122>

On 4 Nov 2002 04:57:37 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>I seem to have succeeded in building PIL from source with jpeg and zlib 1.1.4
>on windows NT. PIL and its pdf documentation manual are very nice (note that
>if you're still using an old Acrobat 3 reader you will need to upgrade to
>read the pdf manual).
>
>I backtracked and took alternate routes and hacked here and there on the way
>to the goal, so there were probably numerous places where something could have
>gone wrong, but it seems to work if -- and here's where my question comes in --
>I put 'from PIL ' in front of the import statements in documentation examples.
>
>Googling reveals some discussions of similar symptoms in the past, but I didn't
>find a solid diagnosis or suggestion in what I skimmed.
>
>Hm... Not that I think I really want the available-for-import-using-a-plain-name
>namespace to include a lot of stuff from various packages all the time. I may want
>to use it just as an ordinary package anyway.
>
>I think I'd rather work up some kind of mechansim to expose only what I'm interested
>in at a given time, something like use_package('xxx') and then having site-packages/xxx
>put temporarily in the search path. I haven't explored package use that much, so perhaps
>there already is such a feature amongst the batteries?
>
>I am running 2.2.2, and getting the following (separate invocations of Python to be sure):
>
> [20:43] C:\pywk\pilt>python
> Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import Image
> >>> Image.core
> <Image._imaging_not_installed instance at 0x007E20E0>
> >>> ^Z
>
>The above obviously stops anything further from working, though it's easy to work around:
>
> [20:43] C:\pywk\pilt>python
> Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> from PIL import Image
> >>> Image.core
> <module 'PIL._imaging' from 'D:\python22\lib\site-packages\PIL\_imaging.pyd'>
> >>> ^Z
>
>
> [20:43] C:\pywk\pilt>python
> Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import PIL.Image
> >>> PIL.Image.core
> <module 'PIL._imaging' from 'D:\python22\lib\site-packages\PIL\_imaging.pyd'>
> >>> ^Z
>
>I had to copy zlib.dll into the PIL directory so that _imaging.pyd would load
>the latter ways, but I'm wondering why the import _imaging in Image.py is apparently
>seeing things differently.
>
>What did I glitch or omit? Or what is the explanation?
>
Never mind. I glitched it by having put a bad _imaging.pyd under \python22 along
the way. Removing it fixed the problem.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From brian_ at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  4 02:55:41 2002
From: brian_ at yahoo.com (Brian Lenihan)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 23:55:41 -0800
Subject: import Image vs from PIL import Image vs import PIL.Image
References: <aq4uo1$68o$0@216.39.172.122> <MPG.182fa8894c1bdc50989685@news.nw.centurytel.net> <aq54gp$kin$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <MPG.182fc7d833a92e81989686@news.nw.centurytel.net>

In article <aq54gp$kin$0 at 216.39.172.122>, bokr at oz.net says...
> 
> Thanks, but that wasn't the problem. I had caused it with hacking detritus.
> 
>  Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
>  Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> import Image
>  >>> Image.core
>  <module '_imaging' from 'D:\python22\lib\site-packages\PIL\_imaging.pyd'>
>  >>> ^Z
> 
>  [22:20] C:\pywk\pilt>cat D:\python22\lib\site-packages\PIL.pth
>  PIL
> 
> But I notice an interesting difference in the name and place of the dll. Yours
> is right under site-packages\ as PIL_imaging.pyd and mine is under
> site-packages\PIL\ as _imaging.pyd. Did you install via the binary installer?
> 

I built it myself.  Well, now I'm confused.  I removed PIL.pth and got 
the same path you do.  I put PIL.pth back and still get the same path 
you do.


From frans at haarman.com  Sun Nov  3 14:58:52 2002
From: frans at haarman.com (Frans)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 19:58:52 GMT
Subject: Parsing & question about usages off classes!
References: <docx9.172161$Mf5.8344841@Flipper> <iWcx9.81076$TD1.3676165@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <0efx9.175905$Mf5.8592441@Flipper>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> If by any chance your request for creating new classes
> has nothing to do with creating new classes but is rather
> about binding dynamically computed names to new instances
> of an existing class, my earnest advice is not to do that.
> Use dictionaries and lists, NOT variables with dynamically
> determined names -- the latter is never a good approach.

Ok. I am trying a different approach. But I am still having problems.

I want to create several new list. The name off the new lists will come 
from another list. That way I can create several lists, depending on the 
data received from logfiles. Is that possible ?

Or isnt that a good idea either ? :)

So basicly:
my_list['some','data']
variable = my_list[0]
variable = list

Now this doesnt work, but the result I want is a new list with the name 
'some'.

Thanks,

Frans









From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 15 19:42:53 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:42:53 -0800
Subject: Tkinter wart: bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-0E7234.13363215112002@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <3dd563db.9499247@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <eppstein-0E7234.13363215112002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <200211160042.QAA24657@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Friday 15 November 2002 13:36, David Eppstein wrote:
>
> So, just so I'm clear about this, the workaround is to add image = None
> to your procedure, before it returns?

That's not how I took it.  Assuming you actually meant "image1 = None", then 
that would explicitly lose the reference to the Tkinter.Image object, which 
happens anyway once the function returns and the 'image1' variable goes out 
of scope.

What Mike was saying is that:

lbl = Tkinter.Label(win.window, image=image1)

Hands off image1 to the Label object, which eventually becomes a Tcl/Tk 
construct.  However, this does NOT increase the reference count for the 
Tkinter.Image object itself, and so when image1 goes out of scope, it gets a 
reference count of zero, and causes the actual image memory to be deleted, 
which causes Tk to not display the image (because the Tcl/Tk delete command 
was called on it)

In a class, you could just keep a reference to the image to keep it alive as 
long as Tkinter.Label is alive.  But in a function, Tkinter.Label as well as 
Tkinter.Image both go away (the difference is that Tkinter.Label being 
garbage collected does NOT cause the forget and/or destroy method to be 
called on the Tcl/Tk widget itself.)

I agree that it is an inconsistency.  I think I agree with Mike that 
collection of Tkinter.Image should NOT call "image delete" at this point; 
however, that causes other problems (when DOES the Image ever get deleted?)  
Since the python object is destroyed, the name is lost (to Python, not to 
Tk), and so the simplest alternative is to leak.  Not really nice, but hey, 
the Tcl/Tk widget is leaked to (leaked meaning Tk knows about it, but to 
Python, it is gone)

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 13 12:22:13 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:22:13 -0700
Subject: Installing dislin (scientific data plotting software)
References: <3DD12A29.8B34ED2C@cs.nott.ac.uk> <3DD26D66.C96D0C5F@cs.nott.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqu1o5$8ji$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Turhan Ozen wrote:

> Is there any other recommendations either for using dislin or any advise
> on a powerful plotting tool to use with python apart from dislin?

You could try IPython (http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython/) as a 
working environment. It's not GUI based and under Windows has some 
limitations, but it's better than the default python shell. Under 
Linux/Unix/OSX, which have proper terminals and readline support, it's quite 
nice IMHO (granted, I may be a bit biased :)

Other plottinng options:

- Gnuplot. That's what I use. IPyhton comes with addons to make it much nicer 
for regular use.

- Grace. I also use it occasionally, though I'm less familiar with it. It only 
does 2d though.

- Chaco (http://scipy.org). This is not production code yet, but watch out for 
it in the future.

Cheers,

f.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 29 15:46:05 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 21:46:05 +0100
Subject: catch output of threads
References: <87of88723i.fsf@flibuste.net>
Message-ID: <m3lm3ct88i.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

William <wilk-spamout at flibuste.net> writes:

> Is it possible to catch the output from print of differents threads ?
> In a single thread, i can change the value of sys.stdout... but with
> differents thread i don't know ?

You can still change the value of sys.stdout, even for multiple
threads. The print statement internally uses sys.stdout itself.

If multiple threads interleave print statements, you will get mixed
output on your replaced sys.stdout, just as you would with the
standard sys.stdout.

HTH,
Martin


From imbosol at vt.edu  Tue Nov 12 18:17:00 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:17:00 -0500
Subject: simple metaclass question
References: <3DD08DC1.A4CFE557@irl.cri.nz>
Message-ID: <aqs27n$avm$5@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Blair Hall wrote:
> Please don't ask me why, but in trying to use metaclasses
> I simplified my code to the following:
> 
> class M(object):
>    def __init__(cls,name, bases,dict):
>        cls.val=0
> 
>    def set(cls,n):
>        cls.val = n
> 
> class A(object):
>    __metaclass__ = M
>    val = 3


I'm trying to get the hang of this metaclass thing myself.  Let me see
if I can interpret.

The definition of class A essentially (and maybe really) becomes the
following assignment:

A = M("A", (object,), {'val': 3, '__metaclass__': M})

What does this do?  Well, M, being a class, when called, returns an
instance of class M.  So that is what A is bound to.  There are two
problems then:

1. You initialized cls.val in M's __init__ to zero, but you probably
   should have initilized cls.val to dict['val'].

2. Because M is not a subclass of type, instances of M are not types.
   Therefore, A is not a type.  (I'm not sure of this one, though.  I
   think in Python an object can be a type only if it is a subclass of
   type; I'm not sure if this is true in other languages with
   metaobjects.)


> I was then surprised to see that
>>>> A.val
> 0

This is because A is bound to a instance of the class M.  Because you
initialized the val attribute of the instance to zero, and A is bound
to the instance, A.val is zero.

Here is something that probably does what you expected:

class M(type):
    def __init__(self,name,bases,dict):
        self.val = dict['val']
    def set(self,n):
        self.val = n



-- 
CARL BANKS


From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Nov 20 15:39:28 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 22:39:28 +0200
Subject: sockets and encryption
References: <6pintugofjalm0sbg1u2g4q91bdonmbupk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92CCE6B5DD840cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Paul Nilsson <p.nilsson at xtra.co.nz> wrote in 
news:6pintugofjalm0sbg1u2g4q91bdonmbupk at 4ax.com:

> I'm wondering if anybody knows of an encryption module which allows a
> client/server to set up a SSH type connection. Eg. the server pushes
> over a static publick key and an hourly generated key, the client
> generates a session key and fires this back at the server, then the
> session is encrypted with this key and blowfish (or something
> similar).

well you could of course use pyssh and have something that works.

> Ideally I'd like to be able to drop these sockets in where I'm using
> the standard socke library now.

you could use ssh and port forwarding
 
> It's not really to difficult to code this up, however I really don't
> want to re-invent the wheel here.

sure and with pycrypto it's realy easy. however getting something _secure_ 
is an other task (making it attack proof). 

http://pyssh.sourceforge.net/
http://www.amk.ca/python/code/crypto.html

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Nov 24 16:55:19 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:55:19 -0800
Subject: print to file
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
		 <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
		 <TUrD9.58023$Yw.2622115@news2.tin.it> <mailman.1037998531.3961.python-list@python.org> <3DE1081F.ABBF3863@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3DE14AC7.7020D25B@alcyone.com>

"Colin J. Williams" wrote:

> >>> f=file('ugh.py', 'w')
> >>> print 'abc' >> f
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for >>: 'str' and 'file'
> >>>
> Am I misinterpreting Section 6.6 of the language doc?
> 
> I get a similar result with Python or PythonWin.

The synax is

	print >> f, 'abc'

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Money talks / But love is for real / And you know that
\__/ Neneh Cherry
    Erik Max Francis' bookmarks / http://www.alcyone.com/max/links/
 A highly categorized list of Web links.


From whisper at oz.net  Fri Nov 15 16:48:28 2002
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:48:28 -0800
Subject: Possible Win32 Tkinter bug?
In-Reply-To: <uvg2ra.u1f.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEOEELGBAA.whisper@oz.net>

It sounds to me as though you don't have the right modality set for the
message box or something is messed up about your tkinter installation.

Windows has 3 dialog modalities:

application modal - the dialog gets the focus, the main app is disabled and
control returns to the app when the dialog is dismissed. IIRC, this is what
a tkMessageBox is by default and there's no option to change the modality.
system modal - the dialog gets the focus, all apps are disabled and control
returns to the app when the dialog is dismissed.
non modal - the dialog is essentially an independent window. all other apps
are responsive, including the app that launched the dialog. The app next in
the z-order would get the focus when the dialog is dismissed.

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Tim Daneliuk
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 2:10
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Possible Win32 Tkinter bug?
>
>
> Eric Brunel wrote:
> <SNIP>
> >
> > Windows has a quite different idea on which window should get the focus
> > than any other window manager on other platforms. We often
> encountered such
> > strange behaviours.
> >
> > Did you try to explicitely do a tkraise and/or focus_set on the
> main window
> > after your message box has been shown? It may help. I also once
> saw that
> > calling successively withdraw(), then deiconify() on the main
> window can
> > solve such problems.
> >
> > In other words: you're on Windows, so the standard way to do
> things is to
> > hack until you get the behaviour you want... ;-)
> >
> > HTH
>
>
> Thanks - I'll look into it...
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> Tim Daneliuk
> tundra at tundraware.com
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From kemu at sdf-eu.org  Thu Nov 28 09:35:47 2002
From: kemu at sdf-eu.org (Jonas Geiregat)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:35:47 +0100
Subject: importing question ?
Message-ID: <3de62963$0$214$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

 >>> import classes
 >>> a = veryBigSnake()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'veryBigSnake' is not defined
 >>> from classes import *
 >>> a = veryBigSnake()

why doesn't the first import work ?
and the second does

and what is the difference between those two ?



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 23 13:08:38 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 18:08:38 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <m8nmra.tk4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <arog76$ed5$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:56:37 -0800, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Donn Cave fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 22 November 2002 
>10:01 am:
[...]
>
>> So the first challenge may be to learn to think in Python, but then
>> you need to learn to think beyond it.
>>
>        Whereas I prefer to "think in" the abstract, and /then/ apply 
>transforms to map the abstract constructs to the target language.
>
I like this way of putting it, but I took thinking "beyond it" [Python]
to mean thinking in the abstract, so perhaps you are pointing to the same place?

IMO the interesting question is what "beyond-Python" elements are involved in thinking
"in the abstract." ISTM the imagination uses patterns in some representational
medium too, though coupled so closely with our experience of thinking that we
are scarcely aware of the process. I.e., we can infer that there are normally
subconcious processeses underlying our experience of thinking, just as there
are underlying our experience of having control of our bodies.

How does learning Python produce "beyond-Python" elements to think with in the abstract,
that are different from "beyond-Fortran" elements, or "beyond-Lisp" elements, or
even "beyond-assembler" elements?

I think after a time of using a language's representational forms in programming, one's
mind creates mental representations of the essential abstractions involved, apart from
the details of their physical representation syntax.

Fortran has abstractions too, but, e.g., no idea of dictionary per se binding a particular
set of names to a particular set of objects. Learning python gives you the abstract notion
of name->thing relationships to think with. You can get this notion from in Lisp as well, but
in Fortran name->thing relationships are narrowly contrained (for useful purposes) and don't
give you the general abstract notion. OTOH, arrays also have abstract counterparts, and
Fortran and associated libraries gives you some useful things there.

So I would say "thinking in" a language is thinking in the abstract, but restricting oneself
to the abstractions that map easily to representatons in the syntax of the language. The more
powerful the language, the less the restriction.

The best languages are those that will give you the cleanest and most powerful abstractions
to think with, while also providing a clutter-free and natural representation syntax that
lets you map both ways easily. ISTM Python is really excellent in this within its bounds
(which are pretty wide if you include "greater Python" with the neighborhood).

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Fri Nov  8 05:12:05 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 10:12:05 GMT
Subject: string.strip
References: <mailman.1036744990.32317.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasn36r.tk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <mailman.1036744990.32317.python-list at python.org>, Stano Paska wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> in documentation: string.strip(s[, chars])
> but in real life strip takes only 1 parameter
> 
> I have python 2.2.2

But you've read the documentation for 2.3. (.../doc/current on python.org).
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Nov  7 10:20:04 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 16:20:04 +0100
Subject: slow on HPUX, SunOS, fast on MS Win2K and Linux?
References: <xqxlm45jvpd.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <jovy9.1953$Bs5.47424@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <m3r8dxjtjv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> > Is there some reason python code which builds objects should be
> > notably slow on HPUX or SunOS? Some known code optimization problem?
> 
> Not known to me, but the symptom sounds very much like malloc
> is very slow on those platforms compared with malloc on the Intel
> hardware platforms you've confronting them with.  

The HP-UX malloc is reportedly *very* slow if multi-threading is
enabled. So unless you need threads, recompiling Python without thread
support might give significant improvements.

If, by "SunOS", you really mean "SunOS 4" (i.e. not Solaris), the same
strategy might help, as might upgrading to Solaris.

> You could try building 2.3a0 off CVS -- it has VERY substantial
> optimizations in terms of memory allocation and handling in
> particular -- or, even with 2.2.2, try to force it to be built to
> use pymalloc (I have not needed to do it so I'm not sure about the
> details, but I'd guess it would probably be some --with-what=ever at
> config), which is an optimized-for-Python memory allocation package.

While that option exists, I would advise against using it: pymalloc
was significantly improved before enabling it in 2.3.

Regards,
Martin



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 27 18:30:40 2002
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 15:30:40 -0800
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0211271530.23ee1e3a@posting.google.com>

Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote in message news:<mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list at python.org>...
>   Is there an obvous way to have f (still defined in A) manipulate
>   objects in B when executed in B?

(Related to my other reply.) Before anyone asks the question on how to
execute a function code that takes arguments, two personal comments:

(a) You've gone far too deep into Python internals,
(b) Read http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=000101be5e3f%248e8e65c0%244e9e2299%40tim&rnum=6

regards,

Hung Jung


From maney at pobox.com  Fri Nov 22 18:26:27 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:26:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <armef3$8ov$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
> engineer now, but the reality is that for any substantial problem there
> are way more possible bad OO solutions than good ones, and finding a
> good one is not any kind of easy.

s/bad OO solutions/bad solutions/

If design space weren't so vast, and the good solutions so small a
portion of it, programming would be a lot easier.



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Mon Nov 25 23:09:32 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:09:32 GMT
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no> <artvr3$cbe$2@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <kps5uugnftv0jk2c23sm8v96gcv9l3n2kc@4ax.com>

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:05:56 +0000 (UTC), maney at pobox.com wrote:

>David Brown <david at no.westcontrol.spam.com> wrote:
>> correctness.  This particular "feature" is a huge source of bugs and
>> frustration in C programming - mixing up "=" and "==" in conditions is
>> probably the biggest single cause of C program bugs.  Python, on the other
>
>Are you speaking from experience,...

In my own personal experience, the most common typo I make in C like
languages is the =/== error. I'm lucky enough to generally see this
error before I send it to the compiler and fool myself into thinking
the code is good.

C//



From cliechti at gmx.net  Tue Nov  5 17:24:35 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 00:24:35 +0200
Subject: calldll question
References: <3DC847D5.60908@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <Xns92BE457940F3cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Matthew <dontspam_matthewm at ihug.co.nz> wrote in 
news:3DC847D5.60908 at ihug.co.nz:
> import calldll     OK
> 
> dll = calldll.load_library(<path to dlll.dll>)    OK
> func = calldll.get_proc_address(dll, <func name>)    OK
> 
> Now how-to execute this func?

don't use calldll directly, use windll instead. 
there you can just call the method as if "dll" was an object.

chris
-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From Oschler at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 11 12:20:28 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:20:28 GMT
Subject: [Jython] out of memory during jythonc compilation
References: <CHiz9.46580$Lg2.13026394@news2.news.adelphia.net> <aqo0j2$nj0$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Message-ID: <wFRz9.47153$Lg2.13459105@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Andreas Ulbrich" <ulbi at ivs.tu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:aqo0j2$nj0$1 at mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE...
> > thx
> I've had similar problems quite a while ago when Jython was called
> JPython and had version numbers less than two. Increasing the heap size
> helped, but you may want to try something more substantial than 50 MB.
> Give it everything your machine has. I managed to compile everything
> when the heapsize was at least 256 MB. A fast machine comes handy, too :-)
>

Andreas,

Yikes!  Ok, will do.  Unfortunately all I have is 256MB and unfortunately
Dell saw fit to only put two DIMM slots in the system.  Guess I'll have to
replace the 2 128's with 256's.

thx





From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Nov 29 10:47:09 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 10:47:09 -0500
Subject: Parser building in Python
In-Reply-To: <20021129141633.GB29515@k6.in-berlin.de>
References: <20021129141633.GB29515@k6.in-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <oqy97cs7ia.fsf@carouge.sram.qc.ca>

[ml]

> I like to write a parser in Python.  The language itself is not LALR(1),
> but I could do some tricks to make it LALR(1).  What are the best tools
> to write lexers and parsers in Python?  Maybe sth. similar to ANTLR?

SPARK is a good bet, it accepts grammars which may deviate a bit from those
we are used to.  However, for big inputs, it might be slow.  For one of the
projects I work for, SPARK seems very acceptable to the team, and it will
likely go in real production in a few months from now.  Everybody seems to
agree that we saved weeks (or maybe months) of development by using SPARK.

But in the whole adventure, the real saver was switching to Python instead
of C, for a rather complex system formerly written in PL/I.  It was tinily
difficult convincing the management to do so, our prediction that we were
saving years of development and maintenance was a strong selling point.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From usenet at soegaard.net  Tue Nov 12 19:25:04 2002
From: usenet at soegaard.net (Jens Axel Søgaard)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:25:04 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de> <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <3DD0D765.3030907@web.de> <3DD16CAF.41214BBA@alcyone.com> <aqrvhs$mqf$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <3dd1ffd7$0$63936$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

Pascal Costanza wrote:

> ...but that results in other problems, like the need for hygienic
> macros, and so on. I rather prefer Common Lisp, because it's much more
> pragmatic IMHO, and I think it's easy to learn as well if you have a
> good tutorial. (And there are several on the web...)

Beating

  http://www.htdp.org

and

 http://www-mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/

are hard though.

--
Jens Axel S?gaard





From brian at sweetapp.com  Thu Nov  7 14:22:41 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:22:41 -0800
Subject: Syntax Error, help a newbie
In-Reply-To: <20021107103055.2566.qmail@web40503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c28693$0ac71950$21795418@dell1700>

> Do you mean, my syntax is not correct? :)

Yeah; get rid of the colon. Also, are you expecting some kind of
variable expansion with '$removed$'?

> My problem is that the code is not written by myself.
> Is part of a big platform which I am supossed to
> support. I am used to shell scripts but not to Python
> at all.

There are a few Python tutorials. The official one is:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html

> I have reviewed previous support messages and now I
> see that Python 2.2 is required. The package
> python2-2.2-16 is installed in my system. Does this
> mean I should deinstall python-1.5.2-38?

Don't install Python 1.5.2. The operating system needs it to be there.

Cheers,
Brian




From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Tue Nov 26 23:49:59 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:49:59 +1300
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
References: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com> <3de3e129$0$4437$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <mailman.1038346237.22708.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE44EF7.3060402@something.invalid>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> but in that case, what is
>     a, b += t
> equivalent to?


Obviously it's

    a, b = iadd(a, t[0]), iadd(a, t[1])

> What about
>     t += a, b


This is already meaningful:

    t = iadd(t, (a, b))

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From costanza at web.de  Mon Nov 18 14:18:01 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:18:01 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <arbed8$km8$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
>>I think the blurred boundaries between the core language and the library in
>>Common Lisp are a big advantage.
> 
> 
[...]

> Another related problem is that Common Lisp doesn't scale well. It is a big
> and complex language and that's it. While this might be a big productivity win
> for an experienced developer who can leverage a large collection of well
> thought out standard functions, it makes it a bad choice for many other
> scenarios (if you knew neight CL nor python, would you rather have your
> application scripted in python or CL?). 

If you had previously worked mainly with languages like Smalltalk, 
Prolog or some other Lisp dialects, Common Lisp would probably be the 
better bet. ;-)

I am only half-joking - of course, it is more likely that people's 
previous backgrounds make it more natural to do things in Python than in 
  Common Lisp. But it always depends on the concrete setting.

>>To summarize some claims, some people say that Common Lisp is too big while
>>some say that it is lacking in APIs. However, you can't say both things at the
>>same time, this would be contradictory. If you want to try a Lispy language
> 
> 
> I see no contradiction. Common lisp, compared to python, for example, is
> lacking in libraries to achieve specific tasks needed for many real world
> applications (such as GUIs, net protocols, text-processing, etc.), but comes,
> unlike to python, with plenty of looping constructs including a Turing
> complete format function, amongst other things. Now python programmers doing
> Numerics don't have to worry about the SOAP module and vice versa for web
> developers, whereas *all* CL programmers have to master loop, dolist, format
> and whatever else lurks in cl:. Since specialized libraries for the task at
> hand win out over more powerful language concepts, with CL you often have to
> know much more in order to be able to do much less than with python.

I understand your point. However, some minor points: For all of the 
areas you mention (GUI, net, text) there exist libraries in Common Lisp. 
And you don't need to know about the details of loop and format, etc., 
in the beginning.

You're right in that you have to know more when you use Common Lisp. 
This is partly the case because the culture is very different when 
compared to Python. Languages like Python, Ruby, Perl, and so on, are 
primarily "single-vendor" languages. (I don't know if this is a good 
wording - I am not a native speaker.) Of course, there are other 
implementations of Python, like Jython, Stackless Python, and so on, but 
the standards are primarily set by one implementation.

The ANSI Common Lisp standard is defined as an abstract definition, and 
there are many vendors that (more or less successfully) implement this 
standard. Many of the complications you mention can be traced back to 
this fact. (For example, Vendor A may provide an excellent GUI API, 
whereas Vendor B may have the best net library - but you may not be able 
to have both. I am making this up, it's not as bad as that - this is 
just to illustrate what I mean.)


> That doesn't mean that python is generally better than CL, it just means that
> people are not as irrational as lispers generally belief for often prefering
> python over CL.

Of course not. I think I have mentioned this before - I don't like 
language advocacy. My take on this is as follows: It pays off to take a 
look at many different languages and learn what they have in common and 
in what respects they differ. It's more important to know the general 
concepts that are common to many languages than to understand the 
accidental details of a particular language (of course, you should also 
know a certain number of languages on a very detailed level).

In the long run, this allows you to be productive in almost any language 
in a short amount of time. The more often your head has been turned 
around by new languages/concepts the better. ;)

There are studies that show that knowing several languages well is one 
of the most noticeable common characteristic of good programmers.

So, for example, a set of languages I would propose to learn includes 
Common Lisp, Scheme, Haskell, OCaml, Prolog, Python, Ruby, gbeta. (Not 
that I know them all... ;)

Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From mauro at mr-potatohead.com  Mon Nov  4 10:03:09 2002
From: mauro at mr-potatohead.com (Mauro)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 07:03:09 -0800
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Grupo_de_debate_sobre_Python_em_portugu=EAs.?=
Message-ID: <3b55ea60.0211040703.5768503@posting.google.com>

Ol? pessoal,

J? ha algum tempo existe um grupo de debate sobre Python em portugu?s
chamado Jiboa - Python. Mesmo existindo j? a algum tempo, o movimento
dele, obviamente ? bem menor que o comp.lang.python. Ent?o sem tirar
os m?ritos do comp.lang.python gostariamos de divulgar o J-P para
aproximarmos mais os usu?rio do Python. No entanto a lingua prim?ria
utilizada no grupo ? o portgu?s, (N?o sendo restrito mensagens e
ingl?s, mas prefeririamos em portugu?s).

O endere?o ?: http://members.tripod.com.br/jiboia/
O endere?o para mensagens ?: jiboia-python at grupos.com.br 
Obs. Solicitamos a quem desejar enviar mensagens, se cadastrar no
grupo antes.

Agradecemos a todos pela aten??o.

[]'s
Jiboia - Grupo de Discuss?o sobre Python


From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 21 10:11:32 2002
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:11:32 +0000
Subject: Gnuplot on Windows
Message-ID: <F376vlnQvZ1vOFogr8x0000e3c1@hotmail.com>

Hi folks,

I've got a graphical application that uses Michael Haggerty's
Gnuplot-py extension. On Unix, this works great (thanks Michael) by basing 
IO on a popen command.

The Windows version of gnuplot is a GUI app, so a stdin stream is created by 
wrapping it in a console app using the PostMessage Windows API command (done 
through the public domain pgnuplot program).

I'm having trouble writing to this stream, though. This illustrates the 
problem:

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>import Gnuplot
>>>a=Gnuplot.Gnuplot()
>>>a.plot('1.dta') # A simple data file
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "F:\SIMMONDS\python22\Lib\site-packages\Gnuplot\_Gnuplot.py", line 
281, in plot
    self.refresh()
  File "F:\SIMMONDS\python22\Lib\site-packages\Gnuplot\_Gnuplot.py", line 
222, in refresh
    self(self.plotcmd + ' ' + string.join(plotcmds, ', '))
  File "F:\SIMMONDS\python22\Lib\site-packages\Gnuplot\_Gnuplot.py", line 
206, in __call__
    self.gnuplot(s)
  File "F:\SIMMONDS\python22\Lib\site-packages\Gnuplot\gp_win32.py", line 
122, in __call__
    self.write(s + '\n')
IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument
>>># Working through the hierarchy gives me
>>>a.gnuplot.gnuplot
<open file 'f:\simmonds\gnuplot\pgnuplot.exe', mode 'w' at 0x00792CE8>
>>>a.gnuplot.gnuplot.write("hello")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument

I had a check through the Gnuplot-py project page, and there was another 
support request describing the same thing, but no answer was given.

I'd be grateful for any comments.
Thanks in advance,
Paul

**********************************************
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.
**********************************************

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From norbulus at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  9 23:46:20 2002
From: norbulus at hotmail.com (Norbert)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 20:46:20 -0800
Subject: Member variable in object spontaneously turns to None
Message-ID: <15a857d.0211092046.549df8c2@posting.google.com>

I am encountering a strange problem where some member variables,
initialized upon instantiation of the object they are contained in,
suddenly appear as having the value 'None' when I try to access them.
Other member variables in the affected object are unchanged.

class Foo:
  def __init__(self):
    self.bar = 0
    self.x = 0
    self.y = 'a'

matrix = []
for i in range(10):
  row = []
  for j in range(10):
    row.append(Foo()) 
  matrix.append(row)

print "%d" % matrix[0][0].bar
  0
print "%d" % matrix[0][0].x
  0
....
print "%d" % matrix[1][1].bar
  0
print "%d" % matrix[1][1].x
  None

I am perplexed. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Thu Nov  7 09:50:41 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:50:41 +0100
Subject: just a little program
References: <1036679049.891080@news.liwest.at>
Message-ID: <aqdujv$22t$1@news.netpower.no>

"news.liwest.at" <christian.stockhammer at students.uni-linz.ac.at> wrote in
message news:1036679049.891080 at news.liwest.at...
> Hello List!
>
> I'm a student and i got a homework i just cannot solve: (I study
economics,
> so i'm absolutley out of programing)
>
> We have to write code that will do the following:
>
> You just put in any number and the program will multiply and divide this
> number from 2 to 9
>
> This is how it should look like:
>
>         13 *  2
>         26 *  3
>         78 *  4
>        312 *  5
>       1560 *  6
>       9360 *  7
>      65520 *  8
>     524160 *  9
>    4717440 :  2
>    2358720 :  3
>     786240 :  4
>     196560 :  5
>      39312 :  6
>       6552 :  7
>        936 :  8
>        117 :  9
>         13
>
> We have to define an own function like def something(input) and it should
be
> solved with a for-loop
>
> Any help would be appreciated
>
> Cheers and greetings from Austria
>

You mean, like:
def foo(x) :
    p = x
    for i in range(2, 10) :
        print "%d * %d = %d" % (p, i, p*i)
        p = p * i
    for i in range(2, 10) :
        print "%d / %d = %d" % (p, i, p/i)
        p = p / i

But why would you want to do this?  What does this have to do with
economics?  And why do you specifically want a for loop?






From zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru  Fri Nov 15 05:30:16 2002
From: zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru (Lexy Zhitenev)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:30:16 +0300
Subject: getcwd 2.2.1 vs. 2.2.2 and PythonWin
References: <4cce07d5.0211141728.7364f526@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ar2ibo$2u4h$1@serv.vrn.ru>

> A few days ago, I asked about how to find the directory where my
> script was running.  Someone posted that I should use getcwd.

Not exactly so. os.getcwd returns current dir, and it is not always the dir
where script lies.

> At home, it worked fine with Wing IDE and command line, but getcwd in
> PythonWin would return the directory where PythonWin.Exe was sitting.

By default, the shortcut to PythonWin sets its working dir to
<PythonDir>\site-packages\PythonWin,
so, before you save anything or open, cwd is there, and not in your script
dir.

For an arbitrary module you can get its path by examining module.__file__,
but a script being executed doesn't have it.




From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Nov  7 04:10:07 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:10:07 GMT
Subject: Python Browser Applets
References: <mailman.1036618569.11393.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <P5qy9.22663$5u4.69909@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Terry Hancock:

> It seems like this would have to mean that the
> "Netscape Methods" would include drawing primitives
> or a canvas object that can be drawn to,

   That would be a good way for it to work! But it doesn't :-(

> but I haven't found it yet (Or maybe I'm misunderstanding
> how it works, and the plugin has to talk to the underlying window
> library -- but that seems bizarre and awkward).

   The plugin creates a native window and uses platform specific drawing
functions.

> In any case, I figure it means writing a "Netscape Plugin Renderer"
> for PyUI.  This  would give me option
>
>     3) Run Applet on Python Plugin (Requires embedded python
>     plugin -- big project?, Netscape Plugin Renderer for PyUI -- small,
>     contribs to AnyGUI and PyUI if needed).
>
> The plugin route is kind of the "high road" though -- very nice result,
> but it clearly requires the most work.

   Yes, writing a cross platform plugin is lots of work, especially if you
want it to integrate well into the browser, such as cooperating in sizing
and in event routing including command keys. It is simpler if your plugin
area is a fixed size area that is isolated from the browser.

   Neil




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 15 07:53:01 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 13:53:01 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C5C92001CEEdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1ilqic9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C75350E4A4dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <m3d6p7m1ua.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> > That might be the case. However, as a question, I meant it seriously:
> > What do I gain from converting the Python documentation to XML?
> 
> In an earlier mail you mentioned the toolset for XML.
> Saves a lot of work.

What specific work does what specific toolset save in the specific
case of Python documentation? All the work that can be saved has
already been done.

> Docbook has a significant multi-lingual element for boiler plate,
> the techniques are re-usable though. Norm Walsh did a talk on it
> at a conference I hosted in 2001 if you are interested.

I don't think that the multi-lingual feature helps, in practice. It
allows you to edit multi-lingual documents - which likely won't
happen. Instead, you want different documents for different languages,
and synchronize the translations from time to time - where the English
document is always the master document.

So while I do see some advantages from using XML for that, I don't see
any additional advantages from using Docbook, for translation.

Regards,
Martin


From missive at frontiernet.net  Tue Nov 19 00:48:04 2002
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 05:48:04 -0000
Subject: Interfaces
Message-ID: <utjk4kf2ct1458@corp.supernews.com>


Are interfaces still a happening proposition? Most of the documents
I find on the web are 3-4 years old. I notice that __future__ has
'division', 'generators', and 'nested_scopes', but no 'interfaces'.

Did we decide that we are not interested? Or are we waiting to see
how this goes in Zope before making any commitment?




From jb at cascade-sys.com  Thu Nov 14 18:04:47 2002
From: jb at cascade-sys.com (James J. Besemer)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:04:47 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <4STA9.9987$744.345722@news1.tin.it> <jc58tugirbnbtn1i7e2kf7of4l3ltt665e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3DD42C0F.8090706@cascade-sys.com>

Manuel M. Garcia wrote:

> A good point. Python is pretty darn small.  

I disagree.

 > O'Reilly's Python Pocket
> Reference for Python 2 is 124 pages, and only because the major
> modules are referenced starting at page 65.  

I collect pocket reference guides, and FWIW, Python's is the largest!

Perl 5 (including libraries) is only 48 pages.

I have C/C++ pocket refs that work out to 8 pages for the language and 8 
pages for the libraries.

Python includes virtually all of the features commonly available to most 
languages plus a bunch of extra features that appear only in non mainstream 
languages or that are entirely unique to Python.  Tuples, Longs, Imaginary 
numbers, list comprehensions, while/else, for/else, generators, are examples 
of Python features that are not commonly available in other languages.  The 
list grows considerably if we include features common to Perl (e.g., lists, 
dictionaries, slices, strings) but which are otherwise missing from most 
mainstream languages.  I suppose the one thing Python (Perl and others) leave 
out are variable and type declarations, which goes to making the language 
seem smaller than others.

I don't raise this point to complain or suggest Python is bad.  I actually 
think it's a tribute to Python's superior design that so MUCH functionality 
is contained in a manageable tool.  Python is so well designed that it SEEMS 
small even though it's comparable to the most elaborate programming systems 
ever made.

Disagreeing with the OP, I rather think Python tends to go overboard the 
other way in deference to newbies and naive programmers.  This is why Python 
consciously rejects assignment within an expression, ++ and --, ?:, var 
parameters and goto, even though most experienced programmers already know 
how these constructs work.  It's ostensibly the reason why integer division 
was redefined to produce a real result -- because naive users might be 
"confused" by a truncated integer result.  I think the designers are overly 
pedantic on this point overall and thus sometimes make the wrong call.  In 
any case, it's certainly not fair to suggest that Python errs in adding "hard 
to understand" features.

Some learning curve is inevitable even in the most readable language.

Regards

--jb

-- 
James J. Besemer		503-280-0838 voice
2727 NE Skidmore St.		503-280-0375 fax
Portland, Oregon 97211-6557	mailto:jb at cascade-sys.com
				http://cascade-sys.com	





From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Nov 26 14:34:19 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:34:19 -0800
Subject: readability statistics
In-Reply-To: <as0gvb$ort$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <010601c29582$d0637020$21795418@dell1700>

> Does anybody know where I can find a module
> which calculates some python code readability statistics.
> Like for example:
> % comment lines.
> average line length
> average module number of lines
> etc...

I don't know if such a utility already exists or not, but you could
probably write one in less than an hour. Look at the tokenize module. 

Cheers,
Brian




From zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru  Tue Nov 26 11:54:26 2002
From: zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru (Lexy Zhitenev)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:54:26 +0300
Subject: How to convert ASCII-number => HEX -number => string of numbers in HEX ?
References: <3de39ca8$1@news.vip.fi> <3DE3A33E.3050505@Linux.ie>
Message-ID: <as0902$70s$1@serv.vrn.ru>

"Padraig Brady" <Padraig at Linux.ie> wrote:
 news:3DE3A33E.3050505 at Linux.ie...

> Hmm ''.zfill() isn't present on python 2.2 at least?
> (string.zfill() is?)
>
> P?draig.
>

Maybe, you have a broken version? ActivePython 2.2.1 does have .zfill() and
string.zfill().

Lexy.




From jaykay2199113223 at aol.com  Sun Nov 17 14:31:59 2002
From: jaykay2199113223 at aol.com (Jaykay2199113223)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 19:31:59 GMT
Subject: learning python and what i need ?help please 
Message-ID: <20021117143159.08975.00000149@mb-fo.aol.com>

hi there i need advice on what i need to begin to learn python,do i need to
download a compiler,if so any preferences you could tell to use and anyother
advise  thanx stevie



my e-mail address is STEPHEN414 at AOL.CO.UK


From Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com  Thu Nov 28 18:08:02 2002
From: Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 23:08:02 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyfy97ew0o7.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <3DE666F0.32F64BA6@alcyone.com> <f6scuus406jor5ka1kr7sj80serq7215gd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaud8ei.s0v.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>

"Courageous" wrote:

>  On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:56:48 -0800, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>  
> >deed, I think it's highly ironic that people are complaining about
> >parenthesis-counting when it comes to Python, because "I don't want to
> >be keeping track of whitespace indentation" is one of the key
> >anti-Python sentiments (from people who have never used it).  The fact
> >that we're not complaining about this in Python now, of course, is
> >because it's a non-issue -- you _don't_ have to do such things, your
> >editor does it for you.  For Lisp programming, it's exactly the same
> >thing.
>  
>  But requires a specific class of editor, whereas all other editors
>  around can handle basic programming languages.

I frequently edit Lisp code using vim. It works just fine.
There are lots of very cool things you can do with emacs,
but I can't quite see how the existence of an editor with
exceptionally good language support is supposed to be a
disadvantage.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan  Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com
.sig under construc


From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Tue Nov 19 16:08:02 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:08:02 GMT
Subject: stopping SimpleHTTPServer
References: <rllC9.1167$Kw6.763611@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <mailman.1037712456.9562.python-list@python.org> <XEtC9.1316$Kw6.814584@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <AptC9.28393$744.1027998@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <SKxC9.1347$Kw6.845244@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:AptC9.28393$744.1027998 at news1.tin.it...
> dsavitsk wrote:

* * *

> In your subclass, you need to override method handle_error, which by
> default processes all exceptions (including the SystemExit exception
> raised by sys.exit) by printing a traceback and continuing.  Check if
> the exception is SystemExit and then re-raise it, otherwise delegate
> to your base-class's handle_error for normal error processing...
>
right.  I am not getting something very fundamental, so this is a good
learning opportunity ...

I added a method as below (found from a Steve Holden post)

def handle_error(self, request, client_address):
   import exceptions
   etype, evalue = sys.exc_info()[:2]
   if etype is exceptions.SystemExit: raise
   print '-'*40
   print 'Exception happened during processing of request from',
   print client_address
   import traceback
   traceback.print_exc(1000, sys.stdout)
   print '-'*40
   sys.stdout.flush()

but it doesn't seem to be used upon an error. Instead the original
handle_error method is called.  So how do I convince my program that this
one is the one to use?  Python 2.1.3, b/t/w.

thanks




From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Tue Nov 12 20:03:04 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:03:04 +1300
Subject: Optimisation problem
References: <mailman.1037087175.5506.python-list@python.org>	 <aqr28o$4om$1@news.hccnet.nl>  <7h3heem23ju.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <mailman.1037125885.21852.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD1A4C8.7080803@something.invalid>

'm suregabor wrote:

> you're saying that for example
> 
> x,y = 2,4 
> 
> creates a tuple?
> 
> i thought thatr x,y=2,4 is the same as x=2;y=4


The result is the same, but the experiment below demonstrates
that the former is implemented by building a tuple and then
immediately unpacking it again.

This surprised me, because I thought someone claimed a while
ago that this case was optimised. But apparently it's not!

(I tried it with python -O too, and the result was the same.)



Python 2.2 (#1, Jul 11 2002, 14:19:37)
[GCC 3.0.4] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import dis
 >>> def f():
...  x,y = 2,4
...
 >>> dis.dis(f)
           0 SET_LINENO               1

           3 SET_LINENO               2
           6 LOAD_CONST               1 (2)
           9 LOAD_CONST               2 (4)
          12 BUILD_TUPLE              2
          15 UNPACK_SEQUENCE          2
          18 STORE_FAST               1 (x)
          21 STORE_FAST               0 (y)
          24 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
          27 RETURN_VALUE
 >>>



-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Fri Nov  8 04:25:53 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:25:53 +0100
Subject: re.sub() bug?
In-Reply-To: <3dcb7ea6$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>; from mike@skew.org on Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 02:06:45AM -0700
References: <3dcb7ea6$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <20021108102553.J30315@prim.han.de>

Mike Brown wrote:
> Python 2.2.1 on FreeBSD.
> These work as expected:
> 
> >>> re.sub(u'f', u'b', u'foo')  # keep string as Unicode
> u'boo'
> >>> re.sub(u'f', u'b', 'foo')   # coerce string to Unicode
> u'boo'
> 
> But this doesn't work the way I'd think it would:
> 
> >>> re.sub(u'f', u'b', u'')     # coerce string to non-Unicode?!
> ''
> 
> So, is this a bug?

I think so.  File a bug report at sourceforge.

    holger



From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Thu Nov 21 18:32:45 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:32:45 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arjns3$rcs$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3DDD6D7A.3010308@nyc.rr.com>


Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:03:48 +0100, Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> wrote:
>>Could you try to describe what it means to you to think in Python? What 
>>makes it different from thinking in other languages? (This is not a 
>>rhetorical question!)
>>
> 
> (Please pardon my jumping in with my view. I realize you didn't ask me ;-)

Nor did you answer him! :)

What is it about Pythonthink that is different from Otherlangthink?

I actually was wondering the same thing, because I do not see a lot 
different in Python from C other than very practical advantages, such as 
the indentation thang and GC. But I just am digging into Python, so 
whadoiknow?

My biggest mindfuck was learning Prolog. Declarative vs procedural. The 
prior champ was Logo, specifically learning to think recursion when I 
wanted to iterate. That sort of thing.


-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From shalehperry at attbi.com  Mon Nov  4 11:00:24 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:00:24 -0800
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
In-Reply-To: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDA9B@intrepid>
References: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDA9B@intrepid>
Message-ID: <200211040800.24696.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On Monday 04 November 2002 07:52, Simon Brunning wrote:
>
> Changing an object's type, ah, now that's a different matter. It's usually
> not just the declaration which needs to change, you have arguments to
> change all over the place, casts to add, it just seems to go on forever.
> Eclipse doesn't help here. (Does EMACS?) With Python, of course, you change
> your object instantiation, and re-run your unit tests. If the signatures of
> the old and new types match, you are good to go.
>

emacs only has intelligent search and replace capabilities unless programmed 
otherwise.  It could be done but to my knowledge it does not exist today.  
You can get pretty far with search and replace though.

I understand bicyclerepairman to be a good emacs package for Python 
refactoring.



From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Nov  8 12:41:00 2002
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:41:00 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDAD0@intrepid> (message from
	Simon Brunning on Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:26:39 -0000)
References: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDAD0@intrepid>
Message-ID: <200211081741.RAA25389@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>


   Too easy - try <http://galileo.spaceports.com/~bwrhodes/bfi.py>


Seen that :)
and most of the others.
And as for those extensions - a language that needs integers just isn't
trying.

There's probably not much to choose between them really but I prefer
functional style.

Eddie



From blackprogramming at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  5 23:33:50 2002
From: blackprogramming at yahoo.com (black)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 20:33:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Tkinter's button
In-Reply-To: <1036511890.1389.1.camel@m-franklin>
Message-ID: <20021106043350.37309.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com>


 thanx but why we could check items by format like this: myButton["state"]
as I remembered that is with dictionary, while myButton is instance here how could we invoke a dictionary with an instance name ?
thanx in advance~
 
 Martin Franklin <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> wrote: On Tue, 2002-11-05 at 03:46, black wrote:
> 
> Howdy~
> 
> I have a button create with this line:
> import Tkintertk=Tkinter.Tk()button=Tkinter.Button(tk)
> and I found we could add some "property" with this format:
> button["text"]="Howdy"
> is that a hint that all buttons have a predifined dictionary ? and how to check all members ? I searched tutorial about Tkinter but found nothing. 

print button.config()


will list all the configuration options and values.....


you can also update widgets like:-


button.config(text="hello")





-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
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From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Tue Nov 26 05:11:15 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:11:15 +0100
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <20021126043142.4323.25612.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1038295415.22435.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arvha1$im6$1@news.netpower.no>

> map(), filter(), and reduce() do not represent all of the uses for filter,
> and thus, they can't all be replaced by list comps (BTW, I never used
> reduce, never understood what it was good for, and don't immediately
> see how it can be done using list-comps -- would be genuinely interested
> in seeing a couple of example if anyone's willing).
>

I've used reduce() a couple of times, such as for calculating checksums of
strings to/from a serial port.  But I wouldn't miss it much if I didn't have
it - a for loop would do just as well.

> So I think lambda still has a place, though I wouldn't want to increase
> its capabilities (such as making non-expression functions possible).

Agreed - if you make your lambdas too complicated, they won't fit on a line
or two, so you would be better off with a seperate function anyway.

>
> > I find lambda quite useful for creating simple anonymous functions to
pass
> > to GUIs as button commands and the like. I suppose the same effect could
be
> > obtained by adding a couple more lines to define a temporarily-named
> > function, but then I'd have to think up a name. I've been known to waste
> > hours trying to come up with names for new computers. I'm not quite so
> > indecisive about functions, but it does seem to be one of my weak
points.
>
> Agreed -- the general pattern of passing functions as first-class objects
> is supported by providing the simplicity of lambda for the degenerate
> case, just like numerical or aggregate data literals support passing
> variables (do I recall correctly that you couldn't pass literals to
functions
> in Pascal?  I remember being very annoyed by that, coming from
> Fortran).
>
> As for the pain of thinking up a name -- I think it's actually a good
> sign. It shows you care.  Good names are a real benefit to your own
> future self and to anyone else who must read your code. Though they
> weren't primarily interested in programming but in websites, I found the
> book "Information Architecture" (O'Reilly), to be very influential in
> my thinking about variable names and other "labels" -- which is the
> term they use.  Not saying I always live up to the ideal, but it gave me
> an ideal to try for. ;-D
>

Good names are the key to readable and maintanable programming.  But there
are plenty of cases where no name is better than some dummy name.  If you
have to refer to something, it should have a good, sensible name.  If you
don't have to refer to it, then it is an advantage to have no name - it
saves cluttering namespaces, and it makes dir() more useful.

> Cheers,
> Terry
>
> --
> Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
> Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com
>




From johs+n at ifi.uio.no  Mon Nov 11 05:11:43 2002
From: johs+n at ifi.uio.no (Johannes =?iso-8859-1?q?Gr=F8dem?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:11:43 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
 <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqjr09$qbg$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <lzisz4pg9s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>

* Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu>:

>> (All sane editors support paren-matching.)
> I know that.  But that's just humans using the editor to count for
> them.  The point was you can't eyeball the nesting of parentheses.

I fail to see the problem.  Okay, it is slightly inconvenient to write 
it on paper, but who does that, anyway?  This is 2002, not 1960.

> Notes about when a particular form is evaluated are all over the spec.
> There are a lot of macros and special forms for which it isn't clear
> whether you should quote an argument or not.

For which it isn't clear to you, you mean.  (Even if it may sound like
it, the previous sentence is not meant as an insult.)

> In Lisp, sometimes it isn't even *defined* when code gets
> evaluated. 

No, that's Scheme.

-- 
Johannes Gr?dem <OpenPGP: 5055654C>


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov  8 00:29:07 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 05:29:07 GMT
Subject: Newbie: needs help with ...
References: <20021108032601.4438.75566.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1036727411.14629.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqfi33$fo7$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:46:44 -0800, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

>On Thursday 07 November 2002 07:26 pm, python-list-request at python.org wrote:
>> I'm trying to print the contents of a list.
>> 
>> Python displays "..." until I press enter. Why is it waiting for me to 
>press enter ?
>> 
>> >>>?for x in l2[:5] : print x
>> ...
>
>I'm not exactly sure whether:
>
>for x in l2[:5]: print x
>    print x, x
>
>would be legal (it's certainly bad style), so maybe the
Apparently not:

 >>> l2 = range(10)
 >>> for x in l2[:5]: print x
 ...     print x, x
   File "<stdin>", line 2
     print x, x
     ^
 SyntaxError: invalid syntax

>interpreter ought to figure out that there won't be anything
>more in the loop.  But what the "..." is about is the way the
>interactive interpreter decides when a loop is actually
Not just loops, but any first-level indented block

>complete:
>
>>>> if x in l2[:5]:
>...        print x
>...        print "x = %d" % x
>...
>
>That last "..." with no content tells the interpreter you're done
>so it can actually run the loop.  (So you can't have any
>blank lines when you're pasting code into the interpreter
Ah, I misread that. But you can have blank lines. Pasting three:
(first using """ to have something I can block copy for pasting)

 >>> """
 ... print 'first'
 ...
 ... print 'third'
 ...
 ... """
 "\nprint 'first'\n\nprint 'third'\n\n"

Ok, here I paste the three lines including EOL on the third:

 >>> print 'first'
 first
 >>>
 >>> print 'third'
 third

You can paste them. It's just that they take effect when the blank
lines are encountered. The serious requirement is just the opposite:
you _must_ have a blank line to signal a dedent to level zero if you
are going to paste a block with additional lines following after
the dedent, which I guess you mean by "to test it".

>to test it, and each loop must have a blank line as well as
>a dedent). 
>
A workaround is to put an "if 1:" in front of the bunch of code with
multiple indent/dedent from/to level zero, to make them into a single block.
E.g., (at least in console window of NT using python 2.2.2)
BTW, I definitely think this could be smarter, but it must be hard to
make it so or I'm sure it would be. Below I pasted the line groups
all at once (I think ;-):

 >>> def foo():    # line 1
 ...     print 'Hi from foo'  # line 2
 ... foo()         # line 3
   File "<stdin>", line 3
     foo()         # line 3
       ^
 SyntaxError: invalid syntax

I don't see why it couldn't recognize the dedent and process the def and
then the last line. Workaround:

 >>> if 1:         # line 0
 ...     def foo(): # line 1
 ...         print 'Hi again' # line 2
 ...     foo()      # line 3
 ...
 Hi again


 >>> def foo():    # line 1
 ...     print 'Hi from foo'  # line 2
 ... # this is not blank
 ... foo()
   File "<stdin>", line 4
     foo()
       ^
 SyntaxError: invalid syntax


 >>> def foo():    # line 1
 ...     print 'Hi from foo'  # line 2 -- next line blank
 ...
 >>> foo() # previous line blank
 Hi from foo

 >>> # Also, why can't it consume a comment like this and prompt with >>> ?
 ...
 >>>

>This is a difference between the interactive and  script
>modes of operation of python.  You see the same thing with
>tcsh and bash, BTW (though the prompt symbols are
>different).
>

I'm not going to check on it ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Tue Nov 26 03:04:54 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:04:54 -0800
Subject: Borgengi (Re: Perl to python convertor)
In-Reply-To: <20021126073601.1411.22111.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021126073601.1411.22111.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18Gakh-0001TO-00@flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Monday 25 November 2002 11:36 pm,  Greg Ewing wrote:
> ?????? ?. wrote:
> >>? ?Actually, Microsoft is sort of a mixture between the Borg and the 
Ferengi.
> 
> First rule of assimilation: You will be acquired!

Someone really needs to write an intro to Zope called
"The Rules of Acquisition". ;-)

Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Nov  8 07:26:13 2002
From: zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:26:13 +0100
Subject: Upload file with multipart/formdata
Message-ID: <aqga8k$69g$02$1@news.t-online.com>

I want to upload a binary file with the script from:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/146306

ASCII files get uploaded without problem, but binary data
gets cut before all 0xA1 bytes.

Any hints?

The server is zope 2.5.1, but this shouldn't be the problem,
since the upload works with a browser.

  thomas



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Nov 13 16:32:19 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 15:32:19 -0600
Subject: RE function
In-Reply-To: <20021113211520.46197.qmail@web10202.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021113211520.46197.qmail@web10202.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1037223139.499.42.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 15:15, lily wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
>  I need help. I am trying to parse some strings where I want to use the RE function. How can I find all the lines that start with '(object Operation' and should contain the word 'Trace' followed by ': {'  ?  
> 
> (object Operation...  
> 
> |Trace: {...}
> 
> 
> 
> ... ))
> 
> I tried using the following code to capture all the instances of these patterns:
> 
> tracepattern = re.compile("\(object\s+Operation<.*?>+\sTrace<.*?>\)")

You don't want those <>'s in there, just:

tracepattern = re.compile("\(object\s+Operation.*?\sTrace.*?\)")

(I also got rid of a + in <.*?>+)

Of course, this doesn't search for what you describe, it searched for
things like (object Operation some junk Trace some other junk) -- you
described {} in there somewhere, but that doesn't show up in your RE.

  Ian




From i.linkweiler at web.de  Fri Nov  1 07:26:28 2002
From: i.linkweiler at web.de (Ingo Linkweiler)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:26:28 +0100
Subject: MySQL + Python.
References: <3DC1783F.5000003@web.de>
Message-ID: <3DC272F4.4010905@web.de>

This is a simple working example of mySQL.
Now I want to use a "DictCursor". How do I use it, or where do I find it?

c=db.cursor(???DictCursor???) ????

Ingo


# ....................8-<.......................
# A simple mysql-test
# requires a database test, table benutzer, rows (userid, name)
import MySQLdb
db=MySQLdb.connect("localhost","username","password","test")
c=db.cursor()
# insert new item
# c.execute("""INSERT INTO benutzer (userid, name) VALUES (7,"Thomas")""")
# start...
print c.execute("""SELECT * FROM benutzer""")
# get one item
print c.fetchone()
# get all items
print c.fetchall()
print "finished"



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Nov 18 07:47:54 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 06:47:54 -0600
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
In-Reply-To: <ar9oqi$oil$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <ar4rgh$nj2$1@panix3.panix.com> <ar5r65$uq6$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD85526.6020606@something.invalid> <ar9oqi$oil$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20021118064744.A4002@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 04:03:30AM +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
> IOW, IMO there ought to be a way to do a temporary global-side-effect-free
> import and delete all traces of its having been done -- without restarting
> the interpreter or invoking a second interpreter instance.

Let us know when you've implemented it.

Some of the problems:

Modules need not be side-effect-free.  For instance, the following is a
(very harmful) legal Python module:
    from os import system
    system("rm -rf /")

Modules may refer to other modules, so you'll need to make any other
"import"s that happen during that time special.

Unloading C modules may not work on all platforms, and may never be
possible when there are references to objects in the module.

If any nontrivial object from the module is kept, the module will be around
anyway, even if it's not listed in sys.modules.  Functions hold a reference
to the module's globals, for instance.  Any non-trivial class has methods,
and any interesting object is an instance.

I think that the presence of modules in sys.modules is used by the system
to break cycles like that of functions.  At cleanup, a module's dictionary
is cleared which breaks the module->function->module cycles and allows
collection.

It's still not exactly clear to me what all these complications would gain
me anyway...

Jeff



From Jeff.Dubois at westgroup.com  Fri Nov 15 14:56:56 2002
From: Jeff.Dubois at westgroup.com (Dubois, Jeff)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:56:56 -0600
Subject: tkinter - tk window remains
Message-ID: <C5723FF8C56CD5119606000347417D890566AF8D@eg-msgmbx-a12.int.westgroup.com>

  Hi Chad,
  The code you suggested did solve the persistent tk window problem.
  Thanks!
  Jeff


-----Original Message-----
From: Chad Netzer [mailto:cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov]
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 4:51 PM
To: Dubois, Jeff; python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: tkinter - tk window remains


On Thursday 14 November 2002 13:29, Dubois, Jeff wrote:
>   I am using Tkinter to bring up a ScrolledText window.
>   However, when the user closes the window by clicking on the X button in
> the upper right of the ScrolledText window the "tk" window remains. 

On my linux machine, your code never pops open a window (since you withdraw 
it), before mainloop().  If I comment that out, it works like you expect 
(closing the window exits the program).  And judging from the code, that is 
to be expected (since you use the rootWindow as the parent of your widget)

I expect that on Windows, the rootWindow is not really the Tk() root window 
(Do you get an extra, blank window if you don't withdraw it?  I assume
that's 
what you mean by the tk window).  Obviously there are platform differences
in 
the behavior of Tk.

I suggest you solve it like this:


from Tkinter import *
from ScrolledText import ScrolledText
import sys

bogusrootWin = Tk()
bogusrootWin.withdraw()
rootWin = Toplevel( master=bogusrootWin )
st = ScrolledText(master=rootWin)
st.pack(side=TOP, expand=1, fill=BOTH)
st.insert(END, "\n\n\n\n       THIS IS MAIN WINDOW!\n")
rootWin.protocol( "WM_DELETE_WINDOW", sys.exit )
rootWin.mainloop()


ie. You explicitly create a Toplevel window to use for your application, and

then using the wm_protocol() method on a Toplevel, you can ask the window 
manager to run sys.exit (or whatever you prefer) when the window is killed.

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From jonah13579 at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 23 21:57:11 2002
From: jonah13579 at hotmail.com (Jonah)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 18:57:11 -0800
Subject: Regular expression question
Message-ID: <9a5f3d1c.0211231857.78125e43@posting.google.com>

What would be the python equivalent of the following perl script?  I
use the idiom often for quick templating tasks.  It finds every
occurrence of %%WHATEVER%% in $source and replaces it with the results
of a subroutine call to sub whatever (lowercased) and is passed
$variable.

$source=~ s/%%(.*?)%%/lc($1)->($variable)/eg ;

Thanks in advance.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 25 22:09:24 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:09:24 -0500
Subject: Determining if a string is base64 or uu encoded?
References: <99BE9.139964$nB.11463@sccrnsc03>
Message-ID: <-FqdnXYLFZnAe3-gXTWcog@comcast.com>

"Colin Cashman" <ccashman at attbi.com> wrote in message
news:99BE9.139964$nB.11463 at sccrnsc03...
> Is there a function that given a string or file (or Message, etc.)
will
> determine whether the string or file is encoded, and if so, what
type of
> encoding that is (base64 vs. uuencoding)?

Brute force method would be to run string thru both decoders (both are
somewhere in library) and see which, if either, completes without
protest.

TJR




From pieroul at attglobal.net  Sat Nov 30 12:29:22 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:29:22 -0500
Subject: Python classes: how to find the name of (potential) parent class?
Message-ID: <3DE8F572.6080106@attglobal.net>

Is it possible to find, at run time, what are the parent class of a 
given Python class?

-- 
         Pierre Rouleau



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Nov  6 14:26:59 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:26:59 GMT
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <slrnasiph8.pma.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <72ey9.2839$h%5.100976@newsb.telia.net>

Jon Ribbens wrote:

> My jonpy modules are producing the following warning when compiled
> under Python 2.3 (current cvs):
>
>   FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive
>   values in Python 2.4 and up
>
> The offending line of code is as follows:
>
>   data = struct.pack("!I", len(nameval[0]) | 0x80000000)
>
> As far as I can tell, this change, when it comes in, will make no
> difference at all to the way this code works. Am I right? What am
> I supposed to do to make the warning go away? Rewrite 0x80000000 as
> 0x40000000 * 2 ? ;-)

add the sign?

or disable the warning?  (see docs for the warning module)

the answer might be hidden somewhere in here, but I'm not
sure (we're at transition phase B0, I think):

    http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0237.html

</F>




From harsh at computer.org  Sun Nov 24 17:03:54 2002
From: harsh at computer.org (Stacy White)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:03:54 GMT
Subject: DCOracle2 performance tuning
References: <%uQD9.122449$1O2.8846@sccrnsc04> <3DE06FE1.3010602@epost.de>
Message-ID: <3DE14CCC.2010700@computer.org>

Gerald Hein wrote:
> I never tried cx_Oracle, but it might be worth a try for you ..

Very interesting.  cx_Oracle is much faster in some cases, but the same 
speed in others.  Hmmm.

Thanks for the tip.



From adrian at twistedliving.com  Sun Nov 24 01:28:46 2002
From: adrian at twistedliving.com (adrian at twistedliving.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 01:28:46 -0500
Subject: Exec`ing external programs
Message-ID: <uu0e96366cek50@corp.supernews.com>

I`m doing something like

import os,sys

a = open('host_list', 'r')
for host in a.readlines():
	os.system('xterm -e atl.py %h &',%(host))

What I`m trying to do is read a list of hostnames and for each one
open an xterm and exec atl.py with host as an argument. I am unable
to background the job, so It hangs until I close the first window.
However if I set a to a list of hostnames inside the script, it 
functions correctly, but fails when reading from a file. I tried
copy.deepcopy after reading from the file with the same results.
Any ideas ?

Adrian



From ngterry2000 at yahoo.com.hk  Tue Nov 12 20:38:03 2002
From: ngterry2000 at yahoo.com.hk (=?big5?q?Terence=20Ng?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:38:03 +0800 (CST)
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
In-Reply-To: <aqrb1b$i5i$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <20021113013803.23827.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com>

I know what a spammer do.  My situation is that:  My
company has just finished an electronics fair, and
received a lot of business cards asking for quotation,
etc.  I am not asking for a heavy weight mailing list
server.  There is already a lot on the internet.  This
is a very common business practice.  I just want to be
smart sending the emails to this list instead of
sending the emails one by one.

Terence

P.S. Grant, you are so XXX.
 --- Fernando P?ez <fperez528 at yahoo.com>
??????> Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> > Do the letters FOAD mean anything to you?
> 
> In case our email-marketer-spammer friend is too
> dense for google (which I'm 
> sure would have provided him tons of tools for his
> noble enterprise), here's 
> google's first hit so he can look it up directly:
> 
> http://www.valinor.sorcery.net/glossary/FOAD.html
> 
> cheers,
> 
> f.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

_________________________________________________________
??(???)????(???)??????(???)...
Over 800 latest ringtones, only on Yahoo!
http://ringtone.yahoo.com.hk



From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Tue Nov 19 18:17:18 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:17:18 -0700
Subject: wxPython crashing windows
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019201BFD76B@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Cliff Wells [mailto:LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net] 
> 
> On Tue, 2002-11-19 at 13:12, trewornan wrote:
> > Well the subject says it all - has anyone else found 
> wxPython crashing
> > windows (all the way to a blue screen). Even the most basic program 
> > seems to do this.
> 
> Check line 10 in your program.

ROFL!!

-- bjorn



From adrian at twistedliving.com  Sun Nov 24 03:28:08 2002
From: adrian at twistedliving.com (adrian at twistedliving.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 03:28:08 -0500
Subject: Exec`ing external programs
References: <uu0e96366cek50@corp.supernews.com> <slrnau0g0s.umo.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <uu0l8upiv0of68@corp.supernews.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> In article <uu0e96366cek50 at corp.supernews.com>, adrian at twistedliving.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>import os,sys
>>
>>a = open('host_list', 'r')
>>for host in a.readlines():
>>	os.system('xterm -e atl.py %h &',%(host))
>>
>>What I`m trying to do is read a list of hostnames and for each one
>>open an xterm and exec atl.py with host as an argument. I am unable
>>to background the job, so It hangs until I close the first window.
> 
> 
> My guess: Each of the strings returned by readlines contains a newline at
> the end. The shell sees that newline (which is before the ampersand) and
> runs the command in the foreground.
> 
> 
>>However if I set a to a list of hostnames inside the script, it 
>>functions correctly, but fails when reading from a file.
> 
> 
> Here's a hint: Since you know it works when 'a' is a hand-coded list of
> strings, and fails when a.readline() is used, take a careful look at the
> difference between the 'host' values in the two cases.
> 
You`re right, I did a copy.deepcopy to try and seperate the list from 
the file ( I was reaching) , and I did notice it contained newlines, It 
just didn`t click, thanks for your help

Adrian



From mistericeberg at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 12 03:31:33 2002
From: mistericeberg at hotmail.com (Georges Bernier)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 00:31:33 -0800
Subject: Create DLL in Python ?
References: <1b318b70.0211111607.74ace07@posting.google.com> <4bZz9.5692$mN6.2514493@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <1b318b70.0211120031.436438c0@posting.google.com>

"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message news:<4bZz9.5692
> The easiest thing to do is to create a COM server which is what a dll is, or
> rather can be. The simplest way to do this is as follows ...
> 
> class MY_COM_SERVER:
> 
>     # change this next line.  a new id can be generated with
>     # >>> import pythoncom
>     # >>> print pythoncom.CreateGuid()
>     _reg_clsid_ = '{F69D8FCD-97BF-4D60-B5E5-199FC3C63172}'
> 
>     # list the public methods
>     _public_methods_ = ['COM_SERVER_METHOD']
> 
>     # the server's name in the registry
>     _reg_progid_ = 'PythonCOMServer.FirstServer'
> 
>     def COM_SERVER_METHOD(self):
>         return 'Hello, World!'
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     import win32com.server.register
>     win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(MY_COM_SERVER)
> 
> Register it by running it in an ide, or by double clicking the file.  It
> would be accessed from VBScript as
> Set x = CreateObject('PythonCOMServer.FirstServer')
> x.COM_SERVER_METHOD
> 
> This creates a late bound COM server accessed like any other dll. There are
> many more details, and you should look in the book Python Programming on
> Win32 for more.
> 
> if, however, the original dll is not a COM object, then I can't help.
> 
> -d


dsavitsk,

Thanks a lot for your clear answer. Actually the current DLL I have to
replace is not a COM server but that sounds like a good idea.
I've seen the Win32 book on Safari that's definitely one that should
be on my shopping list.

Cheers,

Philippe.


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov  7 10:11:11 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:11:11 GMT
Subject: slow on HPUX, SunOS, fast on MS Win2K and Linux?
References: <xqxlm45jvpd.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <jovy9.1953$Bs5.47424@news1.tin.it>

Harry George wrote:

> Is there some reason python code which builds objects should be
> notably slow on HPUX or SunOS? Some known code optimization problem?

Not known to me, but the symptom sounds very much like malloc
is very slow on those platforms compared with malloc on the Intel
hardware platforms you've confronting them with.  You could try
building 2.3a0 off CVS -- it has VERY substantial optimizations
in terms of memory allocation and handling in particular -- or,
even with 2.2.2, try to force it to be built to use pymalloc (I
have not needed to do it so I'm not sure about the details, but
I'd guess it would probably be some --with-what=ever at config),
which is an optimized-for-Python memory allocation package.


Alex



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 22 10:18:11 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:18:11 GMT
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <TUrD9.58023$Yw.2622115@news2.tin.it>

Andrew Koenig wrote:

> Eric> So I told myself: wouldn't it be great if max(None, x) or
> Eric> min(None, x) always simply returned x?
> 
> My first thought was that this was an excellent idea.
> 
> Then I thought again.
> 
> Here's the problem:  The notion that max(None, x) and min(None, x)
> should both return x is one of three desirable properties that cannot
> all be true at once.  Here are the other two:
> 
>         1) Whenever x < y, min(x, y) is x and max(x, y) is y.
> 
>         2) < is an order relation over all types.

Unfortunately point (2) doesn't hold in Python today.


> The desirability of (1) should be obvious.  (2) is more subtle, but
> it is necessary for it to be possible to sort a vector of heterogenously
> typed objects.

Indeed, you can sort a list containing, say, a None, a string, an
integer and a float -- but if you add to the list a fifth element
that is a complex, POOF, you can't sort it any more.  That didn't
use to be so, if I recall correctly, in Python 1.5.2, but has
been that way for quite a while now.  Why comparing string 'plak'
with the number 23 is OK, but comparing it with 23j isn't, kind
of escapes me -- but apparently property (2) was deemed less
desirable than the ability to forbid e.g. comparing 23j with 42j.
To the point of changing Python's previous behavior, no less:-(.


> Now, if max(None, x) and min(None, x) both yield x, and (1) is true,
> then x > None and x < None must both be true.  But then (2) cannot
> be true.
> 
> So the cost of your proposal would be either to break the consistency
> between max/min and >/<, or to render unsortable vectors of values
> that include None.
> 
> I don't think it's worth it.

I don't think it's worth it either -- even the weaker guarantee of
being able to state (just to play with chaining...;-):
    b >= min(a,b) <= a and b <= max(a,b) >= a
*unless an exception is raised while evaluating the expression* is
still pretty good.

However, _some_ kind of language-mandated guarantees about the
behavior of certain cross-type comparisons _might_ be nice.  Right
now, I don't think the language makes ANY such guarantees (except
for comparisons between ints, longs and floats, and between plain and 
Unicode strings, where sensible conversions are indeed guaranteed).


Alex



From grisha at apache.org  Thu Nov 28 16:14:24 2002
From: grisha at apache.org (Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:14:24 -0500
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Mod_python 3.0.1
In-Reply-To: <3de52d75$1@news.mt.net.mk>
References: <mailman.1038426181.12664.python-list@python.org>
 <3de52d75$1@news.mt.net.mk>
Message-ID: <20021128160937.X52698-100000@eden.ispol.com>


On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, [iso-8859-5] ?????? ?. wrote:

>
> > The Apache Software Foundation and The Apache HTTP Server Project are
> > pleased to announce the release of mod_python 3.0.1.
>
> skipping through the online documentation, I noticed the PythonOutputFilter
> directive. If I understand corectly this and the AddOutputFilter Apache
> deirective will enable me to register different Python handlers for
> different file-extensions in the SAME directory, no.

Not quite true because a filter is something different from a handler.

But you _can_ assign different handlers to different file extensions by
specifying them after a "|". This wasn't possible in 2.x.:

http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-3.0.1/doc-html/dir-handlers-syn.html

Grisha



From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Wed Nov  6 11:04:26 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:04:26 +0100
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk> <aqajfv$qqr$1@news.netpower.no> <918bc22f.0211060732.47b2198d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqbeie$6uf$1@news.netpower.no>

"Donnal Walter" <donnal at donnal.net> wrote in message
news:918bc22f.0211060732.47b2198d at posting.google.com...
> David Brown:
> > There are basically two categories of open source licences, as far as I
can
> > see - gpl-type licences (you can use our source, but you have to apply
the
> > same licence to the modified code) and bsd-type licences (you can use
our
> > source for anything you want, but you have to acknowledge the
copyright).  I
> > am a great believer in the spirit of a licence rather than the letter of
the
> > licence, and as far as I can see, the Python licence is in the same
spirit
> > as the BSD licence.  I don't know how that would stand up in court,
however,
> > but hopefully it will never have to.
>
> Well, I'm not likely to take anyone to court, and neither is my
> University for that matter.
>
> For entities like PSF that distribute a lot of copies of their
> software, it probably makes sense to write their own specific
> licenses, but for everyone else (like me) it seems to boil down to
> choosing GPL or BSD. Who would have guessed that it could be this
> simple? (And I am not being sarcastic; this thread has helped me
> considerably.) Thanks.
>
> Donnal Walter
> Arkansas Children's Hospital
> University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences

That's certainly how I look at it (perhaps with a bit of variation - if I
want to release a Python module, I'd probably say "python licence" rather
than "bsd" licence, simply to be consistant with other python modules).  But
if you are doing something big or important, you might want to get some
legal guys to look at it - my (perhaps unfounded) impression is that
American lawyers are much better at "letter of the law" than "spirit of the
law".





From emrich at bigfoot.extrastuff.com  Mon Nov 18 15:53:50 2002
From: emrich at bigfoot.extrastuff.com (D a v i d  E m r i c h)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:53:50 GMT
Subject: changing the Python grammar ?
References: <2259b0e2.0211181221.2eab9db7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yrcC9.313$ko.25479483@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

"Michele Simionato" <mis6 at pitt.edu> wrote in message news:2259b0e2.0211181221.2eab9db7 at posting.google.com...
...
> But now a question arise to me: can I modify the grammar ??
>
> Suppose for instance I want to make able Python to recognize identifiers
> starting with some funny symbol, say "@". All I must do is to modify
> the first line of the grammar as
>
> identifier ::=
>                ["@"] (letter|"_") (letter | digit | "_")*
>
> In the best of the worlds, I would look for some file in the Python
> source distribution containing the grammar, I would change that line,
> and recompiling I would have a new Python able to understand identifiers
> starting with "@". Is this possible in practice ?
>
> Notice that I do NOT want to introduce ugly perlish-like identifiers in
> Python, I simply want to know how much it is possible to customize the
> Python grammar: is this a simple hack or a nightmare ?

All the parser source code is provided in the distribution.  I would start
with Parser/tokenizer.c (except I wouldn't go there).  It could be a very simple
change.  Have fun.

David





From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Wed Nov 20 17:03:19 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:03:19 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037819560.31259.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDC0702.2030808@nyc.rr.com>


Brian Quinlan wrote:
> Kenny Tilton wrote:
> 
>>documentation available at a keystroke, and apropos to search for
>>stuff you suspect is in the language
> 
> 
> Python has several nice help tools. Try typing "help()" at an
> interactive shell. 

great. btw, i did not mean my list to be /in contrast/ with any other 
language, just why i find it approachable.

> 
> 
>>   true garbage collection (I am /not/ looking forward to reference
>>counting or the hoops one has to jump thru to handle cyclic refs)
> 
> 
> Python does not require any such hoops. Python uses a generational
> garbage collector to deal with circular references.

oops. i committed the sin so often committed against Lisp, viz, Living 
in the past. my bad.

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Wed Nov  6 16:33:05 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:33:05 -0800
Subject: Python Browser Applets
Message-ID: <E189XpZ-0003WZ-00@conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi all,

Well, I've researched this further, and for those who are interested,
I think I found a much better (read "easier") solution:

First, AnyGUI is probably a better standard GUI to provide for
the Applet/Plugin. As an attempt at a common standard, it's
a much smaller API than Tkinter or PyGTK (though it provides
backends for them).  It is still somewhat incomplete, though.

http://anygui.sourceforge.net

One of the backends "planned" for AnyGUI is "PyUI" which I
looked up:

http://pyui.sourceforge.net

and it is a GUI implemented against a "renderer" which is a
very small class that has to be implemented for each class
which simply handles the basic drawing actions. The PyGame
2D renderer bundled with it has less than 250 lines of Python
code, which define methods like drawText() and drawRect().

So the simplest approach is simply to write an AWT renderer for
PyUI which can then run in Jython. At that point, the Java-only
restriction is lifted, because PyUI can also run on PyOpenGL or
PyGame/SDL renderers (as well as several other choices), so the
applet would run in C Python as well.

At this point, I have 2 choices:
   1) Run on Java-1.0-enabled browsers (which is pretty much
    all the commercial browsers, but not the free ones until you
    install a plugin). (Requires developing AWT renderer, possibly
    contributing to AnyGUI & PyUI projects to fill out any missing
    features).

    2) Run as an independent Python application. For convenience,
    this can be configured as a "Helper App" in the browser so it will
    pop up when needed (Renderer already written -- actually a
    choice of them, may require AnyGUI/PyUI contribs).

If I want to get more ambitious, it is possible to get the Netscape/
Mozilla Plugin SDK (and the Python Embedding manual) and
write a Plugin to embed the Python interpreter to run Python Applets
natively.  I have found evidence that someone *once* did this, 
but all traces of the original implementation seem to have vanished
from the web, and I'm not sure if it would've been easy to update
a Python 1.5.2 plugin to Python 2.1+  (though it might). Possible
starting places include:

Mozilla Plugins Page: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/plugins/
Alice: http://www.alice.org
WPY: http://www.python.org/ftp/python/wpy/

Reading the Plugin API docs, though, I have to admit to being
somewhat lost -- I haven't figured out how a Plugin actually can
draw itself into the browser window space allocated for it.  It seems
like this would have to mean that the "Netscape Methods" would
include drawing primitives or a canvas object that can be drawn
to, but I haven't found it yet (Or maybe I'm misunderstanding
how it works, and the plugin has to talk to the underlying window
library -- but that seems bizarre and awkward).

In any case, I figure it means writing a "Netscape Plugin Renderer"
for PyUI.  This  would give me option

    3) Run Applet on Python Plugin (Requires embedded python
    plugin -- big project?, Netscape Plugin Renderer for PyUI -- small,
    contribs to AnyGUI and PyUI if needed).

The plugin route is kind of the "high road" though -- very nice result,
but it clearly requires the most work.

Lastly, there are the Free Java implementations -- meaning the
JVMs, the class libraries, and the "Open Java Interface" plugins. If
one or more of these work, we have option

    4) Run Applet on *Free* Java browser platform (need the AWT
    renderer, contribs to AnyGUI, PyUI, and Free Java OJI of your
    choice -- maybe KaffeOJI, which does exist).

Kaffe OJI: http://www.kaffe.org/ftp/pub/packages/kaffe-mozilla-oji/

I have summarized these options in a diagram at:

http://www.anansispaceworks.com/NaryaInfo/client_html

As well as an idea for Zope-integration, but don't worry
about that part -- it's just a way to make deploying the applets
easier on the server side. The "Version 2" Zapplet is a pretty
terrifying diagram, although I think it makes it look worse than it
is -- it's just using a trick I got from a Java Applet/Plugin paper to
make the process a lot more automatic for the user.  The PreLoader
and Loader, for example, can be fairly small programs, and I
believe I have some sample code to start from.  Version 2 is
basically meaningless without the Python Applet Plugin (option #3).

It's clear to me that I'm going to implement the AWT renderer and
possibly contribute the the PyUI and AnyGUI projects to bring any
missing widgets up to the level needed to implement my client
applets.  That's 100% python code, BTW, no extension modules in
Java or C.

I'm wondering if anyway has an interest in pursuing the plugin
route. It does look do-able, but maybe a lot of work. Wouldn't be
so bad if it were broken up among a few interested parties. It would
probably be a snap for me to implement the "Plugin Renderer" for
PyUI along with the AWT one (that is, if I can ever figure out how 
plugins draw themselves).  Basically, I'm asking if anyone would be
motivated to embed the Python browser into a plugin?

Wanted to pass along my progress, and see if anyone's 
interested in the plugin part. If not, I'll probably just focus
on writing 

  * Jython backend for PyUI
  * Zapplet ("Version 1") for Zope
  * Docbook applet
  * Drawing applet

which is the 20% of the effort that does 80% of the job ;-D.

Cheers,
Terry


--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From usenet at imperialviolet.org  Mon Nov 25 07:39:01 2002
From: usenet at imperialviolet.org (Adam Langley)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:39:01 +0000
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.25.12.39.00.361035@imperialviolet.org>

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:21:37 +0100, Jan Decaluwe wrote:

>     class MyInt(object):
>         def __init__(self, val):
>             self.val = val        
>         def __getattr__(self, attr):
>             return getattr(self.val, attr)
> 
> 

>>>> a = MyInt(3)
>>>> a.__add__(4)
> 7
>>>> a + 4
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: unsupported operand types for +: 'MyInt' and 'int'

(Firstly, I should point out that it *does* work if one makes MyInt an
old-style class)

Well, the language reference states that:
  "The + (addition) operator yields the sum of its arguments. The
   arguments must either both be numbers or both sequences of the 
   same type. In the former case, the numbers are converted to a 
   common type and then added together. In the latter case, the 
   sequences are concatenated."

Since MyInt is neither a number (not derived from int) nor a sequence, the
TypeError is technically correct. But, since __add__ is valid, it does
somewhat violate the principle of least surprise from my point of view.



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 20 14:03:32 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 19:03:32 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <areli6$ris$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnatlo5h.r3b.grante@localhost.localdomain> <arg8nn$kr2$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddba9d6$0$4464$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <argma4$tqv$0@216.39.172.122>

On 20 Nov 2002 15:27:18 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:
[...]
>
>I've seen plenty of apps that assume it doesn't wait all the
>time.  If I had a C compiler and knew how to write a simple
>console app for Win32, it would be easy enough to figure out
>how it really does work.  The Win32 guys I work with directly
>all write device drivers and none of them know how the
>user-land API works.
>
I found this, which seems to indicate someone else worried about it,
and did a patch, but apparently wasn't 100% sure it was needed ;-/

http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-patches/2001-q4/msg00297.html

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov 26 09:54:38 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:54:38 -0600
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302F89D60@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Grant Edwards [mailto:grante at visi.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:27 PM
> 
> I find lambda quite useful for creating simple anonymous 
> functions to pass to GUIs as button commands and the like.
> I suppose the same effect could be obtained by adding a couple
> more lines to define a temporarily-named function, but then I'd
> have to think up a name.  I've been known to waste hours trying
> to come up with names for new computers. I'm not quite so
> indecisive about functions, but it does seem to be one of my 
> weak points.
>

Ahh!!

But the ideal throw-away name for anonymous functions
is "_", or "__".  I always use it for one-line definitions
because it's clear, and ... "forgetable". :-)


>>> def _(): print >> sys.stderr, "Button clicked!"
>>> btn = Tkinter.Button(main, command=_)


Since "_"'s usage is exactly on the next line from it's
definition, you know where it went, and you can forget
about it without remorse, or reuse it.  Sure, it has
the "problem" of being two lines instead of one, and
a lambda in that position is more concise:


>>> btn = Tkinter.Button(main, command=lambda:sys.stderr("Button
clicked!\n"))


but, with a lambda, you are limited to only an expression,
not any statements.  So using a throwaway function does
have it's advantages.


Anyway, to each it's own.  But I do concurr with those who
say that with the acquisition of list comprehensions, map(),
reduce(), filter(), lambda() et-al, should be on the road
to deprecation and eventual elimination, being the black
un-pythonic sheep of the family.

Good Tuesday!

-gustavo



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Nov 19 19:16:02 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:16:02 -0600
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.11.19.13.54.54.356611@battleface.com> ("Alexander
 Sendzimir"'s message of "Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:45:38 GMT")
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com>
	<pan.2002.11.19.13.54.54.356611@battleface.com>
Message-ID: <m2lm3p14fx.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

Wouldn't it be a simpler and more readily maintainable design drop the
regex_ids and use a list of tuples where the first element is a rgx
and the second element is an action?  In your version you have to
maintain a dictionary and a list, as well as (somewhat superfluous)
regex ids.

import re                                         # you do want the re wrapper, not sre
lines = map(str,range(3))                         # some dummy lines for testing
handler1 = handler2 = handler3 = lambda x: None   # some very dumb handlers

regexs = (
    ( re.compile( r'regex1' ), handler1 ),
    ( re.compile( r'regex2' ), handler2 ),
    ( re.compile( r'regex3' ), handler3 ),
    )

for line in lines :
   for (rgx, action) in regexs:
      m = rgx.match( line )
      if m: action(m)
        

John Hunter



From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Fri Nov 15 11:43:21 2002
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:43:21 +0100
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <mailman.1037371125.2682.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar387a$hmb$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

holger krekel wrote:
> But in fact i'd like to see some examples of what is readable and
> what is not readable in your oppinion.

zip, enumerate: readable, because you can search the docs for the words. It
is also easy to implement variations: returning other datatypes, returning
an iterator to preserve memory. Thus the whole program becomes easier to
understand because similar task are called in a similar way.

list comprehension: not readable, because you don't know what to search for.
You can't create dictionary comprehension or generator comprehension (both
have been proposed on c.l.p), thus making the resulting program less
regular.

Daniel





From jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com  Wed Nov 13 15:23:48 2002
From: jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com (Jim)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:23:48 GMT
Subject: python, Qt and HOOPS 3D
References: <3DD2A05D.5050007@elemtech.com>
Message-ID: <3DD2B4C2.3060507@SPAMnwinternet.com>

Karl G. Merkley wrote:
> I am looking for the python bindings for the HOOPS-Qt widget.
> Has anybody done this?  Is anyone willing to share?  If not
> does someone have any pointers on how to go about doing this?

> I've been playing around with swig but haven't had any luck making
> it work yet.


I'm not familiar with HOOPS-Qt at all, so this is somewhat
speculative. There is a complete set of Python bindings
for PyQt (http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk) using
sip. If HOOPS-Qt depends on other Qt widgets, this would
probably be your best starting point, as you can import
the bindings for the rest of Qt and wouldn't have to
redo them.

There isn't any complete documentation for doing bindings
with sip. I'm working on some stuff to make sip bindings
easier to do (along with docs hopefully), but it'll be
a while before I have anything to release (if ever). If
HOOPS-Qt isn't an extremely large set of files, you can
use PyQt or PyKDE as examples of how to do bindings with
sip manually.

You can get help with sip and PyQt on the PyKDE mailing
list at:

http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde

If you're interested, email me directly and I'll try to give
you some more info.


Jim



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Sun Nov 17 17:45:56 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:45:56 +0000
Subject: Possibly a stupid question regarding Python Classes
References: <3dd7c140$1_6@nopics.sjc>
Message-ID: <ms6gtuct8f4bvs5bkb9715sncpekjolr9d@4ax.com>

On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:18:29 -0500, "Adonis" <deltapigz at telocity.com>
wrote:

>Is this even possible:
>
>class Foo:
>    def Bar(self):
>        print 'Foo'
>
>class Fib(Foo):
>    def Bar(self):
>        # do the original Foo.Bar()
>        # NOTE: w/o needing to instantiate Foo
>        # then do:
>        print 'Bar'
>
>So in essence I want to override the Bar function, but as well do what it
>would if it were instantiated. I know I could instantiate Foo prior to
>printing Bar, but was wondering if there was a way to keep it within the
>same process.
>
>Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
>Adonis
>

In the 2.2 new-style class world you can use

super(Fib, self).Bar()

To call your super class's implementation of the Bar method.

HTH,
Gon?alo Rodrigues


From grante at visi.com  Mon Nov 18 10:55:46 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 15:55:46 GMT
Subject: Serial Port
References: <mailman.1037306122.3207.python-list@python.org> <3dd47570$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net> <3dd514e8$0$4448$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <arahhn$urd$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <3dd90d82$0$22206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <arahhn$urd$1 at news.netpower.no>, David Brown wrote:
> "Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
>
>> On a slight tangent, anybody know where there's documentation
>> or examples of doing stuff like overlapped serial I/O under
>> Win32 with events and callbacks and suchlike in Python?  I
>> haven't found a copy of the Python on Win32 book yet...
> 
> I find it easier to run serial communication in a seperate
> thread if I need asynchronous communication.

Yes, it's far easier to use a thread per port. 

But my task is to try to troubleshoot serial driver bugs
triggered by certain sequences of Win32 system calls.  My
customers are dyed-in-the-wool Win32 hacks who do things the
most obtuse, complex way possible.  They love callbacks and I/O
completion ports and all that cruft.  When they do stuff like
that and report problems, my requirement isn't to write a
program that performs serial I/O, it's to do it in a certain
way in order to reproduce problems reported by customers.

> You don't normally have so many serial ports open at a time
> that the threading overhead is significant,

I don't?  I usually limit my test cases to 32 ports if
possible, but on occasion have to use 100+ ports.

> it is much easier than messing with the overlapped I/O stuff,
> and it is platform-independant.

Oh, I know it's easier doing sych I/O, and I don't care about
platform independance.  I've never been asked to troubleshoot a
Win32 driver under Linux.  :)

> To be entirely honest, though, the couple of Python programs I
> have written so far that use the serial port have not bothered
> with threading either - they just send out something, and wait
> for a reply or timeout (using the inWaiting() function from
> pyserial, along with time.sleep). But if I needed something
> more advanced, then I *would* use threads - I've done it in
> Delphi, and it works fine.

I use threads a lot for serial communications too.  Sometimes
one-thread-per-port isn't what is required.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I was giving HAIR
                                  at               CUTS to th' SAUCER PEOPLE
                               visi.com            ... I'm CLEAN!!


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov 13 22:54:16 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:54:16 -0500
Subject: Reminder: PyGTA meeting is Thursday November 14, 8-10 pm
Message-ID: <3DD31E68.FA27082C@engcorp.com>

Remember that Thursday night is the next meeting of PyGTA,
the Toronto-area Python and Zope user group.

It will be held at the 519 Church St. Community Centre,
near Wellesley, from 8 to 10 p.m.

Please visit http://web.engcorp.com/pygta/wiki/NextMeeting
for other details of the meeting.

There will be a draw for prizes from ActiveState, including
some Python T-shirts and a free license for their Python IDE.
We also have a bunch of cool Python balloons! :-)

-Ian Garmaise and
 Peter Hansen,
 PyGTA organizers


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Sat Nov 23 12:54:59 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 17:54:59 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <yfsbs4grxl0.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <j2gvtu8fpf8cm4kj27o78leto5esm7gkq9@4ax.com>

>> If there's one thing that makes Python a bad choice for me, that's it.
>> During development, static type systems save me a lot of trouble.

Python is more for the type of person that finds that static type systems
_give_ them a lot of trouble.

C//



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Nov 24 16:52:12 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:52:12 -0800
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <3DE14A0C.E0CDBC16@alcyone.com>

Andr? N?ss wrote:

> if myvar = someFunction():
> 
> My question is, what is the rationale for this? Is it a technical
> issue? Or
> purely a matter of language design? I'm curious because I'm interested
> in
> the design og programming languages, not because I want this behavior
> changed in Pyton :)

It's a language design feature, intended to avoid the confusion between
when people write (say, in C):

	if (a = b) ...

but mean

	if (a == b) ...

Instead in Python assignments are treated as statements, not
expressions, so they cannot appear in an if clause.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Money talks / But love is for real / And you know that
\__/ Neneh Cherry
    Erik Max Francis' bookmarks / http://www.alcyone.com/max/links/
 A highly categorized list of Web links.


From usenet at mike-warren.com  Thu Nov 14 17:08:12 2002
From: usenet at mike-warren.com (Mike Warren)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:08:12 GMT
Subject: proxy object
Message-ID: <g9VA9.798177$v53.29877973@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Greetings,

I have a simplified example of what I want to do (which isn't
working), which basically boils down to this: I want to return a
``proxy'' object which delays the instantiation of
expensive-to-instantiated objects, but I want the object to -- after
the instantiation -- behave just like it would without the proxy.

This mostly works, but isinstance() fails, kind of: if the ``hack''
code below is enabled, then isinstance works but other things fail.
So:

1. is there some way to override isinstance behaviour? or:

2. is there some way to ``replace'' the proxy instance with the
``other'' instance?

3. what exactly is going on below? Why is there an AttributeError
about ``_something''?

Okay, here's the example (I'm obviously not doing the
delayed-instantiation business). Any hints?

,----
| class Proxy:
|     def __init__(self,obj,hack=0):
|         self._obj = obj
|         if hack:
|             self.__class__ = self._obj.__class__
| 
|     def __getattr__(self,name):
|         return getattr(self._obj,name)
| 
| class Foo:
|     def __init__(self):
|         self._something = "something"
| 
|     def something(self):
|         return self._something
| 
| 
| a = Foo()
| b = Proxy(a)
| c = Proxy(a,hack=1)
| 
| print a,b,c
| 
| print "b is Foo?", isinstance(b,Foo)
| print "c is Foo?", isinstance(c,Foo)
| 
| print b.something()
| print c.something()
`----


- -- 
mike [at] mike [dash] warren.com
<URL:http://www.mike-warren.com>
GPG: 0x579911BD :: 87F2 4D98 BDB0 0E90 EE2A  0CF9 1087 0884 5799 11BD



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From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov 27 11:04:14 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:04:14 GMT
Subject: super() and __get__
References: <as2pf6$j6h$1@ins22.netins.net>
Message-ID: <7h3znrvoveu.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Mike Dean <klaatu at evertek.net> writes:

> These are probably two separate questions, but...
> 
> I was out on Guido's page on Unifying Types and Classes, trying to grok 
> super(), metaclasses, and th meaning of life.  I think I get this 
> metaclass thing, but let me see if I get this right on super() - all 
> super() does, is create an object that responds to attribute access by 
> passing that access on to the first object (class, type, whatever) in 
> the MRO of the object with which super() was called, starting with the 
> type super() was called with (i.e., if class C has 10 base classes & 
> types, once all flattened out into the MRO, and class B is the 4th in 
> the MRO, then it only searches from B on).  Am I correct?

Probably :)  All I think you have to know about super() is that you write

    def meth(args):
        ...
        super(<class textually enclosing here>, self).meth(args)

For more info, the code is your friend.  Be warned, brain-exploding
dragons live in Objects/typeobject.c, but the implementation of
super() probably isn't that bad.

> Now, a couple more questions...
> 
> Where did this __get__ thing used in describing super() (and another 
> thing or two on that page) come from?

It's new in 2.2 if that's what you're asking.

> I can't seem to find it in the docs anywhere.

descrintro.html is the only documentation on this sort of thing, I
think (there might be some stuff in some of the PEPs, but not much
IIRC).

> It was used in the Python Super() implementation, as well as another
> time or two.
> 
> Also, if object is the base class of type, why does object.__mro__ work 
> when object defines no __mro__?

?  object.__mro__ is just (object,), no?  Don't see the problem with
that.

> And finally, since __mro__ appears to be an attribute merely inherited 
> from type by all classes, if I have a fancy, can I override __mro__ to 
> suit some bizarre purpose?

Um, I think the answer to that is "no".

> Or is it ignored, simply a mechanism to access __mro__?

It's a wrapper around the C level field tp_mro in the type struct.

> Likewise, why does type also have an mro method, when there's
> __mro__?

You can make a class' metaclass have a .mro() method which will be
called during class creation -- this is in descrintro.html isn't it?
Or is it Lib/test/test_descr.py?  Lots of stuff in that last that you
might want to read, anyway.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Premature optimization is the root of all evil.
       -- Donald E. Knuth, Structured Programming with goto Statements


From s997659 at ee.cuhk.edu.hk  Wed Nov 13 10:58:03 2002
From: s997659 at ee.cuhk.edu.hk (Geiger Ho)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:58:03 +0800
Subject: calendar modules
In-Reply-To: <slrnat4sfj.19g.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk> <slrnat4sfj.19g.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132357570.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk>

thx


On 13 Nov 2002, Gerhard [iso-8859-1] H?ring wrote:

> In article <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000 at sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk>, Geiger Ho wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> >   Wondering around the modules, I find that "calendar" does not function
> > well in MS Windows. When I type "calendar.month(2002,11)", it outputs a
> > string
> > 
> > '    November 2002\nMo Tu We Th Fr Sa Su\n             1  2  3\n 4  5  6
> > 7  8  9 10\n11 12 13 14 15 16 17\n18 19 20 21 22 23 24\n25 26 27 28 29
> > 30\n'
> > 
> > but rather in proper formating.
> 
> Try "print calendar.month(2002, 11)" instead of the implicit repr that's called
> in your case.
> 
> > This seems calendar module is not platform
> 
> It is.
> -- 
> Gerhard H?ring
> OPUS GmbH M?nchen
> Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
> http://www.opus-gmbh.net/
> 
> 



From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 19 20:05:24 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 01:05:24 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <slrnatll92.qu5.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <slrnatlo0o.r3b.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <slrnatll92.qu5.grante at localhost.localdomain>, Grant Edwards wrote:

>> I don't think this last step is correct.
> 
> Perhaps.  If it isn't correct, where does the event mask get returned?

Here's some example code I found at
http://www.codeproject.com/system/serial_com.asp (among other sites). 

It uses GetCommMask() to read the mask value after the WaitCommEvent event
has triggered. However, the MSDN page for GetCommMask says that it returns
"a mask of events that are currently enabled".  To me that means that
GetCommMask() just reads back the value set by SetCommMask().  

But, the bit definitions say that bits mean things like "A character was
received and placed in the input buffer" not that this particular event is
unmasked.

while ( abContinue )
    {
        BOOL abRet = ::WaitCommEvent(apThis->m_hCommPort,&dwEventMask, &ov);
        if ( !abRet )
            ASSERT( GetLastError () == ERROR_IO_PENDING);
        arHandles[1] = ov.hEvent ;
        dwWait = WaitForMultipleObjects (2,arHandles,FALSE,INFINITE);
        switch ( dwWait )
        {
        case WAIT_OBJECT_0:
	    _endthreadex(1);
            break;
        case WAIT_OBJECT_0 + 1:
                DWORD dwMask;
                if (GetCommMask(apThis->m_hCommPort,&dwMask) )
                {
                   if ( dwMask & EV_TXEMPTY )
		     TRACE("Data sent");
                   ResetEvent ( ov.hEvent );
                   continue;
                }
                else 
                {
                   //read data here and reset ov.hEvent
                }
        }
    }

And then other web pages claim that "An event mask, which controls which
events set the state of the event object [...], can be set using the
SetCommMask function. The current event mask can be retrieved by calling the
GetCommMask function."

Is it just me, or is a "mask" and the set of pending events two different
things? Cripes, are all MS documents this bad?  If this were Linux, we'd
have just had a peek at the kernel code and settled this in 30 seconds. :)

Here's another example I found at
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=%23Cq5e4pxAHA.2280%40tkmsftngp02

It apparently expects it to work the way I originally described it:

if (WaitCommEvent(hCom, &dwEvtMask, &o))
  dRes = dwEvtMask;
else
{
   fSuccess = GetLastError();
   if(fSuccess == ERROR_IO_PENDING)
     {
	DWORD res;
	MSG msg;
	do
	  {
	     res = WaitForSingleObject(o.hEvent,nTimeOut);
	     if(PeekMessage(&msg,NULL,WM_USER, FM_MSG_LAST,PM_REMOVE))
	       ProcessPostMsg(msg);
	  }while(res == WAIT_TIMEOUT && !nTimeOut);
	switch(res)
	  {
	   case WAIT_OBJECT_0:
	     dRes = dwEvtMask;
	   case WAIT_TIMEOUT:
	     break;
	   default:
	     break;
	  }
     }
}
if(dRes == EV_RXCHAR)
{
   // Lots of stuff
}
PurgeComm(hCom,PURGE_RXCLEAR);
dwEvtMask = 0;
dRes = 0x8000;


How do you guys in Win32land answer questions like this?  MSDN is useless,
MS support is even worse according to the Win32 guys I've talkd to, and
there doesn't seem to be any consensus on how this works among people
actually using it!

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I feel like I am
                                  at               sharing a "CORN-DOG" with
                               visi.com            NIKITA KHRUSCHEV...


From abidnego25 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 15:20:18 2002
From: abidnego25 at yahoo.com (les)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 12:20:18 -0800
Subject: redirecting cgi error to browser
Message-ID: <653cf871.0211181220.43beca9c@posting.google.com>

hi,
i would like to redirect the cgi error to my browser, for debugging purposes.
i am looking for it on the net but am unable to find it.
can someone please give me an example 
thanks


From mclin at ctgi.com  Fri Nov 22 10:11:03 2002
From: mclin at ctgi.com (Jon McLin)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 07:11:03 -0800
Subject: Subclassing Numpy Arrays?
Message-ID: <9b8c378b.0211220711.2ab041a6@posting.google.com>

I have an application wherein I need to subclass Numpy arrays.  This
does not appear doable, at least directly.  I can obviously create my
own python wrapper class around arrays to enable subclassing, but this
seems like a lot of work. especially given the on-going type/class
unification.  Can anyone provide insight into the likelihood and
timeframe for subclassable array types in Numpy, or point me in a
productive direction?
 
Thanks,
Jon


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Nov  6 17:10:34 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:10:34 -0600 
Subject: I "think" global is broken
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302CAE0A7@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Larry Bates [mailto:lbates at swamisoft.com]
> 
> The following code works as expected.
> 
> class test:
>     global _trace
>     def __init__(self):
>         if _trace: print "entering test.__init__"
>         return
> 
> global _trace
> _trace=1
> x=test()
> 
> 
> Now if I move the class into a separate module called test.py
> and change the main program it no longer works
> 
> from test import *
> global _trace, _debug
> _trace=1
> x=test()
> 
> I get undefined global error
> 
> I just don't believe that this is the way it should work.
> I understand that in this simple example I could
> do an import test and (according to other posts
> I've read it should work).  But in a real world
> example the external module has 8 classes in it
> (and growing).  It just doesn't seem right that I
> would need to split it into 8 different modules.
> 
> Am I missing something?
> Thanks in advance for any assistance.
> 
> Regards,
> Larry Bates
> lbates at swamisoft.com
> 

As explained in another thread a bit ago, "globals" aren't
truly "global", in the traditional sense of the word. Or,
in the "customary" sense of the word.

A global variable in Python is one that exists at the
module level, and not as a local variable in a function
or as an instance or class variable.

Also, it only makes sense to do "global <varname>"
inside a function, so that when you assign to <varname>
it doesn't live as a local variable inside the function,
but rather as a module-level variable.

The only truly global _IDENTIFIERS_ are those inside __builtins__,
but that is an implementation detail (as explained by f/bot) and,
although you could create a truly global shared variable by
assigning it to __builtins__.<varname>, nothing stops the Python
team from changing that behaviour eventually.

So, retaking your example, in the second instance where it fails,
when you execute "from test import *", you bring into __main__
(assuming your in the python shell) all identifiers in test
which don't start with an underscore. BUT, wait a second; all
functions which you import "remember" which module they come
from, so when you execute "global" inside an imported function,
it's accessing the module's namespace, and not the "importing"
namespace.

So, when you run "x=test()" the second time, the class tries
to access a global variable (actually, a module variable)
called "test._trace", and not "__main__._trace", which is
your intent.

HTH

It's kinda tricky, ain't it. :-)

-gustavo



From cjw at sympatico.ca  Mon Nov  4 16:02:36 2002
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:02:36 -0500
Subject: how to stop a running python command in pywin ide
References: <7xEw9.9$%f4.153@news.oracle.com> <Xns92BAED391224cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <3DC6E06C.B640B932@sympatico.ca>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20021104/ca6cca42/attachment.html>

From pieroul at attglobal.net  Sat Nov 30 12:32:25 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:32:25 -0500
Subject: Python exceptions: is there a way to find the exception attributes?
Message-ID: <3DE8F629.4080108@attglobal.net>

Is there a way to find out what arguments can be passed to a raised 
exception of specific class?  Python has a set of built-in exceptions 
(as described in
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-exceptions.html )

If someone needs to know what information can be passed (and retieved) 
from an IOError, one way is to go back to that document, read that 
exceptions.IOError is derived from exceptions.EnvironmentError and that 
EnvironmentError can be initiated with a 2-tuple or 3-tuple and that the 
attributes will be errno, strerror and filename.

Is there a way to find out about the existence of these attributes 
without having to read the documentation, using the dir() function or 
something else?

It would be nice to be able to do that from the interpreter.  The only 
thing i have found using dir() is shown below and it does not give me 
the attributes.

 >>> import exceptions
 >>> exceptions.IOError.__doc__
'I/O operation failed.'
 >>> dir(exceptions.IOError)
['__doc__', '__getitem__', '__init__', '__module__', '__str__']
 >>>

Of course, I could force an exception and print it like:

 >>> try:
...   f=open("/invalid/invalid.oops")
... except IOError, e:
...    print dir(e)
...
['__doc__', '__getitem__', '__init__', '__module__', '__str__', 'args', 
'errno', 'filename', 'strerror']
 >>>

Is this the only way ?




-- 
         Pierre Rouleau



From arivu at qmaxtest.com  Thu Nov 14 23:04:59 2002
From: arivu at qmaxtest.com (Arivazhagan)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 20:04:59 -0800
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list@python.org> <c8476101.0211140642.29540b96@posting.google.com> <3DD3C06D.61AAB36D@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <c8476101.0211142004.7f97751b@posting.google.com>

Hi
We are extending python to develop a Board Description language for
ATE. say in our project there are 2 modules named a.py( provided by us
) and b.py.(the end user programs.)

In a.py
-------

import sys


class Good :
    def __init__(self, name ) :
        self.__name = name


def createGood( *names ) :
    for name in names :
       thisGood = Good( name )

#The following is done so that the objects created here can be
accessed
#from b.py without using the module name. 
#We just want to avoid this.
       sys.modules['__main__'].__dict__[name] = thisGood
   

In b.py
-------
from a import *

createGood( 'A', 'B', 'C' )

#We want to access like this without that additional codes. 
print A
print B
print C

regards
b.arivazhagan


Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3DD3C06D.61AAB36D at engcorp.com>...
> Arivazhagan wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Tim
> > 
> > I assume you're coming from C++. - Thats true.
> > 
> > Hi
> > 
> > My requirements here.
> > 
> > we have three python files names a.py, b.py and c.py.
> > In a.py we are calling a global function in c.py which creates objects
> > of a class in c.py depending on the parameters passed. These objects
> > are created in the scope of c.py. But i need to happen in a.py without
> > using the module name.
> > so I thought that if we inline the function call so that it expands we
> > can access that object without referring to the module name.
> > 
> > Is it possible? Is there some other methods to achieve this in python?
> 
> Certainly there is, but you haven't explained clearly enough what you
> really want.  It sounds like you could simply be returning those objects
> from a function defined in c.py and called from a.py.
> 
> My guess is you are mucking around with global variables at module 
> scope level and getting yourself into a lot of trouble.
> 
> Can you explain *why* you need to refer to objects defined in another
> module without referring to that module's name?  Or can you explain
> why these objects are being created as globals instead of just 
> returning them from a function?
> 
> -Peter


From krissepu at vip.fi  Tue Nov 26 11:09:23 2002
From: krissepu at vip.fi (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:09:23 +0200
Subject: How to convert ASCII-number => HEX -number => string of numbers in
 HEX ?
Message-ID: <3de39ca8$1@news.vip.fi>

Hi,

I looked thru modules binascii and struct but not found a way to
convert hexadecimal value to a string of hex values according to ascii 
table.

Example:

number         =    6673            (max is 0xFFF)
hex -value     =    '0x1a11'
string value    =    "\x31\x61\x31\x31"    (31 is one, 61 is 'a')

or:

number         =    333            (max is 0xFFF)
hex -value     =    '0x14d'   
string value    =    "\x30\x31\x34\x64"    (30 is zero, 31 is one, 34 is 
four, 64 is "d")

I have got this far:

x=""
a = hex(333)
for byte in a[2:].zfill(4):        # Number is allways presented with 4 
hex values (filling missing values with zeros)
    x = "%s%s" % ( WHAT HERE )

Anybody, is there a build in function or shortcut  that does this ?

-pekka-



From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov 25 05:46:51 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:46:51 +1100
Subject: setting a socket to multicast
Message-ID: <200211252146.51963.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

G'day,

I'm trying to write a simple UDP server that listens to a multicast
group. This is roughly what I have so far:

<code>
import socket

port = 5353
addr = '224.0.0.251'

s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_IP, socket.IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP, socket.inet_aton(addr))
s.bind(("", port))

print "Waiting on port:", port
while 1:
    data,addr = s.recvfrom(1024)
    print "Received", data, "from", addr
</code>

However when I run it, it bombs out:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "udpserver.py", line 8, in ?
    s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_IP, socket.IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP, socket.inet_aton(addr))
socket.error: (22, 'Invalid argument')

I'm completely mystified by this. The man page for setsockopt(2) doesn't even mention
EINVAL (at least on my system), and my usual network reference (Stevens, Unix Network
Programming) failed me on this occasion. The documentation refers the man page, which
is nice except that the system call has five arguments and the python call only has three

I did fine one example that was pretty close:
* http://www.pythonapocrypha.com/Chapter15/Chapter15.shtml, which does:
s.setsockopt(SOL_IP,IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP, inet_aton(addr)+inet_aton(''))
and although the third argument looked a bit silly, it was all I had to work from.

Can anyone enlighten me?

Brad
- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Nov  6 15:25:33 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:25:33 +0000
Subject: Guilty secret: globals baffle me
References: <3U9y9.19300$ko1.2872530@kent.svc.tds.net> <82ay9.98000$TD1.4405986@news2.tin.it> <aqbj3a$r89$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <trtisuomnb6hkkhqv7de5mop265k1q9ch5@4ax.com>

On 6 Nov 2002 17:21:46 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>I have an uncomfortable feeling there is unfinished
>business in the way names in nested scopes and otherwise
>related namespaces work. The global/local dichotomy doesn't
>fully express the possibilities any more. IMO it would be nice
>to have full access to accessible namespaces without magically
>determined access mode restrictions based on full-function lookahead.
>
>I.e., we have a de facto hierarchy of name spaces defined by the
>ability to nest functions. Why not have an access mechanism that
>allows rebinding as desired? E.g., you could let locals take a depth argument,
>so locals() is equivalent to locals(0), and locals(1) is the enclosing
>name space, so locals(1)['x'] = 3 in bar above would rebind the x local to foo.
>

I totally agree with you. The uncomfortable feeling is underlined by the
fact that you can rebind global names through the use of global (the
only declaration in Python - ach!) but not names in the enclosing scope
- if it is not global that is. Although I do not feel that there is a
need for this feature in Python, it strikes as an ugly asymmetry - the
ugliest in fact.

I would just change a little bit your notation. Instead of reusing
locals use something like

enclosed()

returning the enclosing scope. And you've guessed it - if you want to
get at the next scope just use enclosed().enclosed(). The enclosed() at
global scope should return None.

Now if you wanted to rebind a variable in the enclosing scope you should
be able to use the notation

enclosed().x = <whatever>

and not dict notation. globals() should follow the same rules.

With my best regards,
Gon?alo Rodrigues



From bswhb at 263.net  Fri Nov 22 01:41:09 2002
From: bswhb at 263.net (Wang Hanbo)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:41:09 +0800
Subject: With what module can Python handel *.tar.gz file?
Message-ID: <000201c291f2$28ef74d0$d001a8c0@dctc.cs>

Hi,
         Buddies, I have a file named  ***.tar.gz, and I want to gunzip
it with Python.
         With which modules can I accomplish this task? And how to?
 
Hanbo
2002-11-22
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From benson123456 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  4 11:15:41 2002
From: benson123456 at yahoo.com (Benson Ngai)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 08:15:41 -0800
Subject: Tkinter problem
References: <369fc45d.0211031751.7ad1276@posting.google.com> <slrnasbm8m.s1.matt@sake.mondoinfo.com>
Message-ID: <369fc45d.0211040815.65a967ba@posting.google.com>

okButton=Button(msgWin,text="OK",command=msgWin.quit,justify=CENTER)
#^^^^^^ Problem on this line^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^######

m.. This is really strange.... I am useing python 2.2.2 in windows
2000. when I run this program... the main windows would come up but
then when I click on the "About" in the menu bar. a new windows would
pop up with a small line of text and a "OK" button, but when I click
on the "OK" butoon it close the whole program.... not just the
sub-window. should I still use the .quit command?? if not..what other
command should i use? I am new to python and Tkinter. please help


Thanks a lot

Benson


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Tue Nov  5 06:32:08 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 11:32:08 GMT
Subject: "Universal Gateway"
References: <apkc4c$d5s$2@pith.uoregon.edu> <n0oxjc6f.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Rejw9.22645$jE1.72970@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <1y63gc02.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Y_Nx9.14995$5u4.46256@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Paul Moore:

> If so, is there a way to *call* an arbitrary interface?
> (Actually, I imagine that this should be possible using calldll plus a
> reasonable amount of arcane pointer arithmetic, but it sounds like it
> could be a bit messy and error prone...)

   Looks like my posts that include attachments are no longer propagating.

Bruce Dodson:

> I, too, salivated when I first heard about universal gateway.  However, on
> closer inspection, I found that it is outbound only: while it will allow
you
> to _implement_ just about any arbitrary interface in a Python server, it
> will not allow your Python code to _access_ those custom interfaces as a
> client.

   Way back in 1997, I published some very low level code for calling
arbitrary COM vtable interfaces using calldll on the Pythonwin sig mailing
list and it is visible at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pythonwin-sig/message/490
   Unfortunately the yahoo interface flattens the code and calldll has
changed since then, and ni has gone away :-( , so the code, resurrected
a bit, is at the end of this post and available from
http://www.scintilla.org/COMVtable.py
   You can get copies of calldll and npstruct for Python 2.2 from
http://www.activestate.com/PPMPackages/PyPPM/2.2+/packages/

   It is a very ugly way to do COM.

   Neil

import pythoncom
import calldll
import string
import npstruct

METH_QI = 0
METH_ADDREF = 1
METH_RELEASE = 2

METH_UPDATE = 13
METH_IS_UPTODATE = 14

class dwordbuf:
    def __init__(self):
        self.mb = calldll.membuf(4)
    def address(self):
        return self.mb.address()
    def value(self):
        return calldll.read_long(self.address())

class Unknown:
    def __init__(self, address, iid, fNeedAddRef = 1):
        self.address = address
        self.iid = iid
        # External use needs to addref, not needed if created by
        # internal QueryInterface
        if fNeedAddRef:
            self.AddRef()

    def __del__(self):
        self.Release()

    def Call(self, methnum, args = (), argdesc = "*", retdesc = "l"):
        if argdesc == "*": # intuit argument types
            argdesc = 'l'*len(args)
        #print 'Call ' + `methnum` + ' ' + `self.address`
        vtable = calldll.read_long(self.address)
        vtmeth = calldll.read_long(vtable+methnum * 4)
        # Prepend interface pointer to arg list
        argdesc = "l" + argdesc
        args = (self.address, ) + args
        #print args
        hres = calldll.call_foreign_function(vtmeth, argdesc, retdesc, args)
        return hres

    def QueryInterface(self, iid): # iid is a membuf holding a GUID
        bufPunk = dwordbuf()
        hres = self.Call(METH_QI, (iid.address(), bufPunk.address()))
        addrnewunk = bufPunk.value()
        return Unknown(addrnewunk, iid, 0)

    def AddRef(self):
        return self.Call(METH_ADDREF)

    def Release(self):
        return self.Call(METH_RELEASE)

def GetCOMAddress(unk):
    # Ugly way to get address of COM object represented by a
    # PyIUnknown by asking for its string representation.
    cdesc = `unk`
    cpt = string.atoi(cdesc[36:-1],16)
    return cpt

def GUIDBuf(guid):
    buf = calldll.membuf(16)
    gs = npstruct.pack('Llhhbbbbbbbb',(
        eval('0x' + guid[1:1+8]),
        string.atoi(guid[10:10+4],16),
        string.atoi(guid[15:15+4],16),
        string.atoi(guid[20:20+2],16),
        string.atoi(guid[22:22+2],16),
        string.atoi(guid[25:25+2],16),
        string.atoi(guid[27:27+2],16),
        string.atoi(guid[29:29+2],16),
        string.atoi(guid[31:31+2],16),
        string.atoi(guid[33:33+2],16),
        string.atoi(guid[35:35+2],16)))
    buf.write(gs,0,16)
    return buf

StdPict =
pythoncom.CoCreateInstance('{00000316-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}',
None, 1, pythoncom.IID_IUnknown)

StdPictOle =
StdPict.QueryInterface('{00000112-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}', 1)
iidOleObject = GUIDBuf('{00000112-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}')
pictOle = Unknown(GetCOMAddress(StdPictOle), iidOleObject)

hres = pictOle.Call(METH_IS_UPTODATE)
print 'HRESULT = ' + hex(hres)
# Destroy it now to avoid problems in automatic tear down
pictOle = None






From stuart at bmsi.com  Wed Nov 20 21:02:40 2002
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:02:40 GMT
Subject: Need Function To Run As Long As Button Widget Pressed
References: <b4d1dd0c.0211201704.1cb336c6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <49XC9.24338$0U1.2390152@news2.east.cox.net>

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:04:30 -0500, Josiah wrote:

>   def Go(self):
>       print "Working"
>       status = self.var.get()
>       if status == 1:
>          self.after(10, self.Go())
>    
>   def IsPressed(self,event):
		  ^^^^^
>       self.var.set(1)
>   
>   def IsReleased(self,event):
                   ^^^^^ 
>       self.var.set(0)

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.


From duncan at rcp.co.uk  Tue Nov 26 04:44:03 2002
From: duncan at rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:44:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: some questions....
References: <arumtk$pqa$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <Xns92D2620911238duncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>

eugene kim <eugene1977 at hotmail.com> wrote in news:arumtk$pqa$1
@newsreader.mailgate.org:

> wow.. i thought python is easy to learn..
> but there are lot's of corks..
> namespace, scoping rule, exec, eval..
> all confuses me..
> 
Simple rule: forget that exec and eval exist. You almost certainly 
don't need to use them. If you think you need either exec or eval then 
post here saying why you want to use them and 9 times out of 10 
someone will tell you a simpler and cleaner way to do whatever it was.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Nov 18 19:42:32 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:42:32 -0600
Subject: file upload via http
In-Reply-To: <3dd90ff4$0$46609$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> ("Joost van Rooij"'s
 message of "Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:05:59 +0100")
References: <3dd90ff4$0$46609$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <m2heeeie4n.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Joost" == Joost van Rooij <joost_vanrooij.net at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:

  Joost>  import httplib

  Joost>  body = open("./image.jpg","r")
  Joost>  headers = {"Content-type": "multipart/form-data",

  Joost>  conn = httplib.HTTPConnection("www.server.net:80")
  Joost>  conn.request("POST", "/showme/picture/upload.php",body , headers)


Just a guess...

Does conn.request want a string or a file object for body.  You are
passing it a file object.  If it wants a string (and the help doesn't
specify), you should call

  conn.request("POST", "/showme/picture/upload.php",body.read(), headers)

Also, you may need to calculate the Content-Length field

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=3CBC9027.3010603%40nmt.edu&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fas_q%3D%2520HTTPConnection%2520request%2520post%26safe%3Dimages%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26as_ugroup%3D*python*%26lr%3D%26hl%3Den


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=mailman.982178415.9822.python-list%40python.org&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2BHTTPConnection%2Brequest%2B%2Bgroup%253A*python*%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8


John Hunter



From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Sat Nov 30 12:12:49 2002
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:12:49 +0100
Subject: ANN: Eric 3.00-beta1 released
Message-ID: <mailman.1038864728.23829.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Hi,

Eric 3.0.0-beta1 is available for download via

http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html

This release contains some bugfixes and some of the requested features 
like an alternative layout for the main screen, smaller icons, 
capability to add all python/designer files of a directory to a project. 
For details see the history file in the distribution.

Please note that this is a feature freeze for 3.0.0. I will only fix bugs 
to get a stable release as soon as possible. New features will come with 
version 3.0.1.

What is it?
-----------
Eric 3.0.0 (or short eric3) is a Python IDE written using PyQt and 
QScintilla. It has integrated project management capabilities, it gives 
you an unlimited number of editors, an integrated Python shell, an 
integrated debugger and more.

Please see for yourself by visiting the a.m. page (it contains a picture 
of Eric our mascot as well).

Please report bugs, feature wishes or code contributions to 
eric-bugs at die-offenbachs.de

Help wanted!!
-------------
I would need some support in the area of more translations and user 
documentation. Any volunteers out there? Just let me know.

Regards,
Detlev
-- 
Detlev Offenbach
detlev at die-offenbachs.de



From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Thu Nov 28 14:33:35 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 19:33:35 GMT
Subject: Name of current method
References: <pan.2002.11.28.20.26.03.172820.727@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <slrnaucrlo.1i0.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

Thomas Guettler <pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de> wrote:
> Hi!

Servus!

> How can I get the name of the method which is executed?

Why do you want to do this? Looks like something rather questionable to me.

Anyway, you can raise an exception, catch it and analyse it using the
methods in the 'traceback' module. I think your question has been discussed
several times in the past here, so you should be able to find less vague
answers via groups.google.com ;-)
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Mon Nov 18 16:39:50 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:39:50 -0800
Subject: Tkinter wart: bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <s1tB9.4925$1r1.171057@newsc.telia.net>
References: <3dd563db.9499247@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <eppstein-F9EDCF.20084015112002@news.service.uci.edu> <s1tB9.4925$1r1.171057@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <200211182139.NAA20149@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Saturday 16 November 2002 06:57, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

>     lbl = Tkinter.Label(win.window, image=image1)
>     lbl.photo = image1
>
> which guarantees that the image won't be collected before
> the widget itself.

Well, maybe I need more schooling.  Could someone look at this code and tell 
me where my reasoning goes wrong.:


import Tkinter

def make_photo_label( parent ):
    image2 = Tkinter.Image('photo', file="WatchmenLogo.gif")
    lbl2 = Tkinter.Label(parent, image=image2)
    lbl2.photo = image2
    lbl2.pack(expand=1, fill=Tkinter.BOTH)
    return

if __name__ == '__main__':
    root = Tkinter.Tk()

    make_photo_label( root )

     root.mainloop()


When make_photo_label() finishes execution, the 'lbl2' variable goes out of 
scope, and is deleted from the local namespace.  So the Tkinter.Label object 
should be 'collected' (which DOESN'T mean that Tk forgets it; the widget is 
still packed, and still exists to Tk).

When 'lbl2' is collected, the reference count of 'image2' drops.  (?) 
Furthermore, when 'image2' it goes out of scope, it drops again.  So it 
should (seemingly) be collected as well, and the image should become blank.

I guess I don't understand how attaching image2 as an attribute to lbl2 
should change anything.  lbl2 still gets collected when the function is over, 
and in doing so, it's link to 'image2' should be broken, and then 'image2' 
should be collected.

However, when running the program, I see that is NOT the case.  The image 
only disappears if I comment out "bl2.photo = image2".  Do I misunderstand 
reference counting?

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov  4 17:05:11 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 22:05:11 GMT
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aq6qun$ib4$0@216.39.172.122>

On 4 Nov 2002 12:24:31 -0800, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:

>Suppose I want to parse the following expression:
>
>>>> exp='(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
>
>I want to extract the first part, i.e. '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)'.
>
>Now if I use a greedy regular expression
>
>>>> import re; greedy=re.compile('\(.*\)')
>
>I obtain to much, the full expression:
>
>>>> match=greedy.search(exp); match.group()
>
>'(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
>
>On the other hand, if I use a nongreedy regular expression
>
>>>> nongreedy=re.compile('\(.*?\)')
>
>I obtain too little:
>
>>>> match=nongreedy.search(exp); match.group()
>
>'(a*(b+c*(2-x)'
>
>Is there a way to specify a clever regular expression able to match
>the first parenthesized group  ? What I did, was to write a routine
>to extract the first parenthesized group:
>
>def parenthesized_group(exp):
>    nesting_level,out=0,[]
>    for c in exp:
>	out.append(c)
>        if c=='(': nesting_level+=1
>	elif c==')': nesting_level-=1
>	if nesting_level==0: break
>    return ''.join(out)
>
>>>> print parenthesized_group(exp)
>
>(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)
>
>Still, this seems to me not the best way to go and I would like to know
>if this can be done with a regular expression. Notice that I don't need
>to control all the nesting levels of the parenthesis, for me it is enough
>to recognize the end of the first parenthesized group.
>
>Obiously, I would like a general recipe valid for more complicate
>expressions: in particular I cannot assume that the first group ends 
>right before a mathematical operator (like '+' in this case) since
>these expressions are not necessarely mathematical expressions (as the
>example could wrongly suggest). In general I have expressions of the
>form
>
>( ... contains nested expressions with parenthesis... )...other stuff
>
>where other stuff may contain nested parenthesis. I can assume that 
>there are no errors, i.e. that all the internal open parenthesis are
>matched by closing parenthesis.
>
>Is this a problem which can be tackled with regular expressions ?
>
Well, they don't count, so if you want to count you have to throw in
something extra. E.g., you could do this, to insert a delimiter after
a closing right paren, and then split on the delimiter. Probably not
wonderfully efficient, and I am just duplicating what you did, except
the regex separates the chunks for me.

 >>> import re
 >>> rx = re.compile(r'([()]|[^()]*)')
 >>> class Addelim:
 ...     def __init__(self): self.parens=0
 ...     def __call__(self, m):
 ...         s = m.group(1)
 ...         if s=='(': self.parens+=1
 ...         if self.parens==1 and s==')':
 ...             self.parens=0
 ...             return s+'\x00'
 ...         if s==')': self.parens -=1
 ...         return s
 ...
 >>> for e in rx.sub(Addelim(),exp).split('\x00'): print e
 ...
 (a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)
 +f(s1)

Where exp was
 >>> exp
 '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Thu Nov 14 14:51:25 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 19:51:25 GMT
Subject: Variable names on the fly?
References: <3dd3f5fd$0$28311$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <r9u7tu8csfau7sjrpkbg85ttsjrphsec7t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnat7vls.fq.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:13:22 -0000, "e-tones.co.uk"
>>[...] Whats the proper format to concatenate (sp?) variable names. I
>>used list+i, obviously this doesnt work, but what does :)
> 
> As far as I know you cannot do this [...]

There's little you cannot do in Python ;-)

for i in range(3):
    locals()["list%i" % i] = []

... it's actually a very bad idea. Use nested lists or a dictionary.

OTOH being able to dynamically create class attributes by writing in
the class object's __dict__ or by overriding __getattr__ sometimes
really helps.

-- Gerhard


From jadestar at idiom.com  Wed Nov 27 15:26:31 2002
From: jadestar at idiom.com (James T. Dennis)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:26:31 -0000
Subject: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
References: <3DE4448E.5080201@attglobal.net> <mailman.1038388238.11306.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1038428791.467720@smirk>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 22:05, Pierre Rouleau wrote:
>> What I'd like to be able to do is implement a complete GUI-based control 
>> application (with buttons, slider, whatever widgets the app needs) 
>> accessible over the web.

> If you confine yourself to HTML widgets (which does not includes
> sliders, for instance), this is obviously possible -- that's what forms
> are, after all.  If you want widgets beyond what's available in HTML
> (either more responsive/interactive, or simply widgets HTML doesn't
> have, like decent file selection), then you will have to either code up
> a Java applet (potentially in Jython), or write a client application.

 As a nitpick you might be able to implement many of these in JavaScript
 (Yuck!) and even in Mozilla's XUL (though that would limit you to Mozilla
 and newer Netscape clients *and* seems to mostly require JavaScript,
 anyway).




From sav at ulj.menatepspb.com  Tue Nov 26 15:43:20 2002
From: sav at ulj.menatepspb.com (Alexander Semenov)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:43:20 +0300
Subject: Can't reconnect with asyncore.
Message-ID: <3de3dcf4@post.ulj.menatepspb.com>

Hi,

Here is my code (WinXP, python22):

import socket, asyncore, asynchat

class strange_client(asynchat.async_chat):
    def __init__(self):
        asynchat.async_chat.__init__(self)
        self.create_socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        self.connect(('192.168.32.30', 110))
        self.push('USER sav\n')
        self.set_terminator('\r\n')
        self._buff = []

    def collect_incoming_data(self, data):
        self._buff.append(data)

    def found_terminator(self):
        print self._buff
        self._buff = []
        self.push('USER sav\n')

    def handle_close(self):
        self.close()
        print 'Reconnecting...'
        strange_client()

strange_client()
asyncore.loop()

I'm trying to reach persistent client connection with asyncore,
which can autorestore itself on errors. When I run this code I see

C:\wrk\wrk>clitest.py
warning: unhandled connect event
['+OK POP3 server ready ]
['+OK please send PASS command']
...
['+OK please send PASS command']

It's ok. Now I break connection (dialup in my case) to server.

...
['+OK please send PASS command']
Reconnecting...

...and program is stuck. I have no success in waking it at all.
Restoring dialup connection has no effect. Why so? How can
I done this with asyncore? My program will be used on linux,
maybe this problem disappered there?

Alexander Semenov.




From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Sat Nov 23 00:45:55 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 05:45:55 GMT
Subject: Newbie Q on searching lists
Message-ID: <3DDF1673.4020203@nyc.rr.com>

I see the index method on lists throws an error if the element sought is 
not found. I was hoping it would return None.

The semantics I am coding happen to throw an error if a certain element 
is found in a list, so i want to code:

    if calculators.index[thisCalculator]:
       raise CircularDependency, thisCalculator

Instead I (think) I have to:

    try:
       if calculators.index[thisCalculator]:
          raise CircularDependency, thisCalculator
    except ValueError: pass

Not the end of the world, but more for the sake of getting to know Python:

1. Am I missing something?

2. Can I add a method to List that has the behavior I am after?

3. Should I just start a module of my favorite utilities and create there:

def find( item, list):
   try: yada yada...

4. Other?

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Nov 20 14:59:24 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 11:59:24 -0800
Subject: how does import work ?
References: <2259b0e2.0211200633.2ed7e075@posting.google.com> <laNC9.31997$744.1183146@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211201159.24566af7@posting.google.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<laNC9.31997$744.1183146 at news1.tin.it>...
> Michele Simionato wrote:
>    ...
> > Suppose now I import ONLY the function f2, but not f1:
> > 
> >>>> from f1f2 import f2
> 
> That's basically equivalent to:
>     import f1f2
>     f2 = f1f2.f2
>     del f1f2
> except that if you already had an f1f2 identifier it's not disturbed.
> 
> > therefore Python has imported f1 too, but is some hidden way, since
> > f1 is not in the current namespace dictionary:
> 
> Of course not, but it's in sys.modules['f1f2'] 's namespace, right
> where it should be.
> 
> > This behavior is quite confusing to me, somebody can explain what is
> > happening ?
> 
> HTH...
> 
> 
> Alex


Thanks, now it is clear.

      Michele


From edream at tds.net  Tue Nov 26 16:51:43 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:51:43 GMT
Subject: memory leaks in Tkinter
References: <mailman.1038320557.29437.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <P1SE9.29787$Hs2.4102912@kent.svc.tds.net>

Does this version of the Tk Text widget support unlimited undo?  If so, text
can not ever really be deleted and the widget will appear to leak.  Not all
"permanent" uses of memory can be considered bad.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------




From just at xs4all.nl  Fri Nov  8 13:42:56 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:42:56 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqgka6$t8j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <just-B369A8.19425608112002@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <aqgka6$t8j$1 at scotsman.ed.ac.uk>,
 eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns) wrote:

> My opinion (the short version anyway) is that because Python is a lot easier
> to learn and use.  It's a bit like the difference between a point and click
> camera and a 'real' one - to use a 'real' camera for even a simple photo you
> need to understand the whole biz.  [ ... ]

Nice analogy!

Just


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Nov 13 17:45:08 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:45:08 -0600
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302DB4F26@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Cameron Horn [mailto:camhorn at mac.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:38 PM
>  
> On Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002, at 02:26PM, <sismex01 at hebmex.com> wrote:
> 
> >> From: Cameron Horn [mailto:camhorn at mac.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:26 PM
> >>  
> >> On Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002, at 02:19PM, 
> <sismex01 at hebmex.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> >> From: Cameron Horn [mailto:camhorn at mac.com]
> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:20 PM
> >> >>  
> >> >> On Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002, at 02:16PM, David Eppstein 
> >> >> <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
> >> >> 
> >> >> >On 11/13/02 2:11 PM -0800 Cameron Horn <camhorn at mac.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>> What I wonder is, why does it need to be a generator?  
> >> >> What's wrong with
> >> >> >>> def foo(): return ( )
> >> >> >>> ?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You're right if it's a one-time thing.  However, if 
> I've got a
> >> >> >> scaffolding like this, then it matters.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> def process_generator(function):
> >> >> >>    for x in function():
> >> >> >>       print x
> >> >> >
> >> >> >How does the function foo() I defined above fail to 
> work in this 
> >> >> >scaffolding?
> >> >> 
> >> >> In the "TypeError: iteration over non-sequence" sort of way.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >An empty tuple is a sequence also;
> >> >
> >> >the "return ( )" thing is returning an empty tuple,
> >> >not "None".  You can make it clearer by using
> >> >"return tuple()" rather than "return ()".
> >> 
> >> Oops.  Missed those parentheses.  Then it is completely 
> >> useful, unless you end up using the "next" method.
> >>
> >
> >In that case, if you reckon you're going to use .next()
> >directly, then you should change 'foo' to something like
> >the following:
> >
> >def foo(): return iter(tuple())
> >
> >It's going to return a valid iterator which is going to
> >try to iterate through an empty tuple, so it's going
> >to raise StopIteration the first time you call .next().
> >
> >
> 
> Which is the obvious, clear and consistent way to create a 
> generator that doesn't do anything.  Unless you're checking 
> types or doing any other low-level things that you probably 
> oughtn't.  I return to my original point.  And then, since 
> everything works and I'm just complaining about a tiny bit of 
> syntax, I shut up.
> 

Interesting coincidence.

I'm thinking of applying generators for a server application I'm
creating, in which I'd use generators to simulate threading, like
the cooperative multithreading available in Forth.

It seems quite easy to just append all the generators that the
application receives, kind of like tasks, into a list, and
item by item, pop(0) it, do a .next(), and reappend it.

The question is, what is more efficient:

# Case one: enter a for loop and immediately break after
# reappending to the tasks list; if the generator raises
# StopIteration(), the append will never happen.
gen = tasks_list.pop(0)
for _ in gen:
   tasks_list.append(gen)
   break


# Case two: use try-except.
gen = tasks_list.pop(0)
try:
   gen.next()
   tasks_list.append(gen)
except StopIteration:
   pass


Lets see what happens in a while.

-gustavo



From deltapigz at telocity.com  Tue Nov 12 18:32:13 2002
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:32:13 -0500
Subject: Convert type() to string?
References: <s2gA9.47879$Lg2.13805658@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3dd18f77$1_6@nopics.sjc>

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> t = type('test')
>>> t
<type 'str'>

then just parse the text.
not the best way but someone will respond with better code.

hope this helps.

Adonis

"Robert Oschler" <Oschler at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:s2gA9.47879$Lg2.13805658 at news2.news.adelphia.net...
> I want to be able to print out the type() of a string for a "structure
> walker" I'm writing.  I need to be able to prepend a string of pad
> characters to the type() so the following:
>
> print padstr + type(x)
>
> won't work because type() does not return a string.  What's a good way to
do
> this?  I'm using Python 2.1 + Python 2.2 (2.1 for Jython).
>
> thx
>
>
>




From roy at panix.com  Thu Nov 14 08:08:13 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:08:13 -0500
Subject: How to comment a block of codes in Python?
References: <mailman.1037249479.4319.python-list@python.org> <3dd375fd@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <roy-67EE74.08081314112002@reader1.panix.com>

In article <3dd375fd at dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
 "Ben C" <b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u> wrote:

> try """ to start and """ to end commented section
> 

This breaks if there are """'s inside the code block.  For manually 
commenting something out for testing, I guess that's a pretty minor 
problem, but just something to be aware of.

Personally, I like the idea of putting #'s in front of every line.  It 
can be done automatically, it doesn't break no matter what's on the 
lines, and it makes it really obvious what's going on.


From member at dbforums.com  Wed Nov 13 08:35:13 2002
From: member at dbforums.com (bandekap)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:35:13 +0000
Subject: Unicode in JSP
References: <2041930.1037194073@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <2041931.1037194513@dbforums.com>

Mistake in last query:

My oracle database for three japanese characters it is storing data in
"&#12373; &#12384; &#12431;" instead of those japanese characters. Does
this data in unicode format?
What neccesary changes i need to do?

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sun Nov 10 22:48:14 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:48:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PEP #99484663
In-Reply-To: <m2isz6ue4f.fsf@desk.crynwr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211101929020.16433-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 10 Nov 2002, Russell Nelson wrote:

> Suggested PEP:
> 
> Treat { and } when encountered at the end of a statement like this:

Ahhh.. the old "tailor the language to people who don't even like the 
language" approach. Doesn't it seem strange to risk alienating the people 
who like and support the language to appease those that don't? When I see 
a curly brace in Python my brain says "dictionary!" and I like it that 
way. Shouldn't my opinion as a happy user of Python weigh at least as much 
as that of someone who complains about it? :)

> In this manner, people who are unable to wean themselves from silly
> syntactic block structure tokens will be happy with Python,

...until they get to the next thing they don't want to wean themselves 
from. 

You don't hear of long-time Python users complaining about the indentation
thing; it's a newbie/first impression issue. Not only do I like it as a
feature, I see it as an open-mindedness filter: people who are willing to
consider that something a little different than "normal" might be good
stick around to give Python a try, others quickly move on to something
more palatable without wasting too much of their own time (they would have
probably been unhappy with Python anyway).

-Dave




From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 29 18:50:55 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:50:55 -0800
Subject: catch output of threads
References: <87of88723i.fsf@flibuste.net>
Message-ID: <3DE7FD5F.35EFC6DF@alcyone.com>

William wrote:

> Is it possible to catch the output from print of differents threads ?
> In a single thread, i can change the value of sys.stdout... but with
> differents thread i don't know ?
> 
> My goal is to make a little server with multithread working on
> windows without calling an external interpreter (like CGIHTTPServer
> do).

For my templating system EmPy -- which is not threaded -- I was forced
to put together a system where a sys.stdout is replaced with a proxy
object that can be "pushed and popped" by each evaluation/execution that
might conceivably use sys.stdout or a print statement, so that the proxy
object would direct the output to the output stream of the appropriate
interpreter that was running.

Unfortunately, though, this doesn't lend itself to a multithreaded
environment (and is the primary reason why EmPy does not support
threading), since you could easily encounter deadlocks (if, say, one
thread stays in an execution loop for an indefinite period).  I don't
think there's any way to do what you want short of modifying the Python
interpreter.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ In wildness is the preservation of the world.
\__/ Henry David Thoreau
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Sat Nov  9 11:18:48 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 17:18:48 +0100
Subject: Refactoring Browser (Bicycle Repairman)
Message-ID: <ulm424syf.fsf@online.no>

I am just so excited and impressed by the Bicycle Repairman, that I
had to show an example here:

Here's an instance method from a class (It's from a little Tkinter app
that I made for my eldest son to sharpen up his multiplication skills)


    def ferdig(self):
        minutes, seconds = self._model.endMinutesSeconds()
        svarText = (u'Du har l?st %d oppgaver p? %0.0f '
        'minuter og %0.0f sekunder'%
        (self._model.correctAnswers(), minutes, seconds))
        svarText2 = u'Det blir %0.1f riktige svar i minuttet'%((self._model.correctAnswers()/self._model.timeSpent())*60)
        endMsgText = u'%s\n%s'%(svarText, svarText2)
        self._endMsgLabel.configure(text=endMsgText)
        if askyesno("Ferdig!", 
                    u'Vil du spille engang til?'):
            self._model = GangeModel()
            self._endMsgLabel.configure(text = '')
            self.showGangestykke()
        else:
            self.quit()

Now I just wanted to get a feel for how good the extractMethod refactoring in
Bicycle Repairman worked, so I marked the following:

        svarText = (u'Du har l?st %d oppgaver p? %0.0f '
        'minuter og %0.0f sekunder'%
        (self._model.correctAnswers(), minutes, seconds))
        svarText2 = u'Det blir %0.1f riktige svar i minuttet'%((self._model.correctAnswers()/self._model.timeSpent())*60)
        endMsgText = u'%s\n%s'%(svarText, svarText2)


And chose ExtractMethod from my Bicycle Repairman menu in Emacs.

Bicycle Repairman changes the code to:

    def ferdig(self):
        minutes, seconds = self._model.endMinutesSeconds()
        endMsgText = self.endMsgText(minutes, seconds)
        self._endMsgLabel.configure(text = endMsgText)
        if askyesno("Ferdig!", 
                    u'Vil du spille engang til?'):
            self._model = GangeModel()
            self._endMsgLabel.configure(text = '')
            self.showGangestykke()
        else:
            self.quit()

and:

    def endMsgText(self, minutes, seconds):
        svarText = (u'Du har l?st %d oppgaver p? %0.0f '
        'minuter og %0.0f sekunder'%
        (self._model.correctAnswers(), minutes, seconds))
        svarText2 = u'Det blir %0.1f riktige svar i minuttet'%((self._model.correctAnswers()/self._model.timeSpent())*60)
        endMsgText = u'%s\n%s'%(svarText, svarText2)
        return endMsgText

Very neat, I know that this is the way a Refactoring Browser is
supposed to work, but I can't help being impressed anyway :-)

So, many thanks to the people who have worked hard to create a Python
Refactoring Browser, and also making it possible to use it from
different tools. 

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From tundra at tundraware.com  Thu Nov 14 19:00:07 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 00:00:07 GMT
Subject: tkMessageBox: Changing Fonts, Colors, etc.
Message-ID: <83d1ra.p19.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

I cannot seem to find a reference on how to change the font type, size,
etc. and colors for one of the tkMessageBox critters like showinfo() or
showwarning()

Could some kind soul, direct me to same, please?

TIA.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Nov  8 20:12:25 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:12:25 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9b8hqa.eo3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqhmib$ei8$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <eppstein-DC177C.17122508112002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <aqhmib$ei8$2 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
 Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote:

> Python is more like Lisp than most other languages, though.  It's
> similar semantically.

This makes little sense to me.  Even the most basic data structures are 
different: Lisp is based around singly linked lists while Python uses 
vectors (with efficient random access unlike Lisp lists) and 
dictionaries.  They are also not especially similar in programming 
style, although both are capable of being used with a wide variety of 
styles. The most important similarity I see is that in both languages, 
values have types but variables are untyped, but that was also true in 
radically different languages such as Snobol and APL; is that really 
enough to conclude that Python and Lisp are more like each other than 
anything else?

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 25 16:18:29 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:18:29 -0800
Subject: screen off?
References: <utu5bo8fsqr1d2@corp.supernews.com> <pan.2002.11.25.10.34.54.843480@upl.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <3DE293A5.74B24485@alcyone.com>

Adam Hupp wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:49:06 +0000, Lance wrote:
> 
> > Some of my programs generate considerable screen output. I would
> > like to
> > turn off the screen output to save time while developing. Is there a
> > way to
> > do this, and turn it back on again?
> 
> You can do this by assigning a new file-like object to sys.stdout,
> i.e.
> 
> sys.stdout = open("/dev/null", "w")

If the original poster is already running a UNIX-like system, then
there's already an easier way to do this; redirect stdout to /dev/null
from the shell:

	./myScript.py > /dev/null

As for non-UNIX systems which wouldn't have a /dev/null to open anyway,
there's an easier work around; just create a file-like object that does
nothing:

	class NullFile:
	    def write(self, data): pass
	    def writelines(self, lines): pass
	    def flush(self): pass
	    def close(self): pass

and then

	sys.stdout = NullFile()

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.
\__/ Oscar Wilde
    WebVal / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/webval/
 URL scanner, maintainer, and validator in Python.


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 11 08:49:44 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:49:44 GMT
Subject: How to create and interactive, distributable program?
References: <3dcfa0e3.921157@news.jaring.my>
Message-ID: <YzOz9.16974$Bs5.597636@news1.tin.it>

Kenneth Gomez wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> In my course, I am asked to develop a basic finite element analysis
  [ snipped: some fundamental FEA specs ]
> To do all of this, my questions are , can Python handle the
> mathematics, e.g. does Python have a subroutine to inverse a matrix,
> or find the modulus of a number,....? Or, is it like C, where I have
> to write the subroutine myself?

Python is a good language for numerically-intensive programming
*IF* accompanied by the indispensable Numeric extension package
(and possibly further add-ons to Numeric).  So, basically just
like in C, you won't have to code any of this fundmentals by
yourself, but neither will you find them embedded in the language
itself -- rather, you'll freely download and install suitable
libraries.  For Python and numeric maths, the choice is quite
clear.  Besides Numeric, I think you'll also want to get SciPy,
from www.scipy.org, for many other useful tools.


> Second, will I be able to create the GUI explained above within 3
> months?

Yes, I think that 3 months for the GUI is a reasonable task -- if
you mean for the GUI *plus* the functioning engine behind it, with
just one person working on it and starting from zero knowledge of
Python, I think that's quite aggressive but not entirely impossible
(I'd deem it as utterly impossible with any other languages -- most
powerful languages take three months just to LEARN properly).

I think it might help to get the best cross-platform GUI engine
around, i.e., Qt -- specifically, I'd suggest theKompany's
"BlackAdder" Python IDE with PyQt, GUI-designer, etc.  However,
Qt and BlackAdder are commercial products, so if in addition
to all other constraints you ALSO want to perform this feat with
all-free tools, you'll have to use something else and save the
money (e.g. about $50 for BlackAdder personal edition in its
current beta state).


> Third, can I make the GUI into an executable file so that I can run it
> off the laptop/workstation that will be used for the presentation?

It's no doubt easier to install the application in its native
form (install Python, then Qt, Numeric, etc, then the app proper),
but if you want it badly enough, you CAN also bundle everything
up into an executable file (at least for Windows and Linux -- I
don't think other platforms are currently supported).  Two tools
that can help are py2exe (Windows-only) and McMilla's installer
(Windows and Linux).

However, it IS one more task to cram into those hugely-dense
three months -- I hope you don't mind working long hours...:-).


> Thanking you in advance for your advise.

If I were in your shoes, with an extremely aggressive schedule
and a LOT of things to be done within that schedule, I'd choose
the best tools (Python, Numeric, SciPy, Qt, BlackAdder), give
up on ALL the non-absolutely-essential parts (the tidbit about
bundling everything up into an executable file just for a
presentation seems non-essential to me, for example), and try
to stick to Extreme Programming principles as much as feasible
(e.g., the 40-hours-per-week principle does NOT seem feasible
under the given constraints and goals -- nor is pair programming
going to be, if you'll be working alone).  Working in short
iterations and boiling deliverables down to specs (expressed
as automated, executable, repeatable tests) and executable code
gives you your best chance to have something usable (though not
probably yet complete) within your deadline.


Alex



From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Tue Nov  5 05:50:48 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 10:50:48 GMT
Subject: How does Python handle probing to see if a file already exists?
References: <pan.2002.11.05.10.28.55.506357@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasf8d8.168.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <pan.2002.11.05.10.28.55.506357 at yahoo.com>, Christopher R. Culver wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've just begun learning Python after already getting pretty proficient in
> C. However, I'm having a problem with a simple copying program. Ideally,
> the program would check to see if the destination already exists and
> prompt the user. In this this would be as easy as saying:
> 
> probe_destination = fopen(/usr/bin/foo, 'r')
> if (probe_destination)
> {
> some code here;
> }
> 
> However, translating that directly into Python doesn't work because if
> Python can't find a file to open, it doesn't just return 0, it gives an
> error and exits.

Yes, Python does have exception handling, which is a very useful thing. You
just have to decide what to do in the error case, for example:

try:
    f = open("/usr/bin/foo")
    # some code here
except IOError, reason:
    print "couldn't open file, because of", reason 

> How can I write this functionality in Python so that it
> returns 0 and continues, or does Python have a totally different way of
> handling this problem than C?

In Python, you catch the exception and decide what to do with it (if anything).
If, for example, you just want to ignore the IOError (but not other errors),
you'd simply do:

try:
    f = open("/usr/bin/foo")
    # some code here
except IOError:
    pass

It's also possible to check if a file exists before trying to open it:

if os.path.exists("/usr/bin/foo"):
    # more code here

But the existence of the file does not guarantee you have the necessary
permissions to actually open it. It could also be deleted in the millisecond or
so between your check and trying to open it. Or some other problem could occur.
That's why using exceptions and catching the IOError is the only practical way
if you want to produce robust code.
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From ahmebah at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 30 01:37:00 2002
From: ahmebah at hotmail.com (Sean McSomething)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 22:37:00 -0800
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <as9m7v$mjf$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>

"Andr? N?ss" <andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:arqm0r$s6f$1 at maud.ifi.uio.no...
> When I started learning Python one of the things that surprised me was
that
> you couldn't do assignments inside the if clause, e.g.:
>
> if myvar = someFunction():
>
> My question is, what is the rationale for this? Is it a technical issue?
Or
> purely a matter of language design? I'm curious because I'm interested in
> the design og programming languages, not because I want this behavior
> changed in Pyton :)

To start with, Java, PHP, Perl and the like do it because C did it.  C did
it because it was intended to be a 'portable assembly language', as such
sometimes one must look back at how things work in assembly to understand
it's behavior.  My understanding of assembly is limited to a poor grasp of
x86 and some brief looks at other systems, so bear with me.

Every operation inside the CPU sets a status flag.  A status flag is like a
1-bit register that reflects the result of the last operation; the x86 has
flags (EFLAGS) for overflow, zero, negative, parity & cary-out.  All
operations set these flags, arithmetic, logical and assignment...

With this in mind, lets look at how two different ways of doing the
assignment would work.

First off:
myVar = someFunc();
if myVar
   doStuff()

would call someFunc() and then pull the result off the stack, placing it
into myVar.  It would, in another step, get the result codes for myVar (most
likely by comparing with 0; essentially it's a no-op who'se only purpose is
to run myVar through the CPU to set status flags).  Then there would be a
jump (like a goto) that jumped based on the values of a status register.

Using an assignment in the if statement, such as :
if myVar = someFunc()
    doStuff

would, again, call someFunc() and copy the result from the stack into myVar.
At this point, the result code for that value (specifically the
zero/non-zero flag) would be set and the next instruction could be a jump
checking the results of those flags, and away we go.

So, we have a minor optimization, that cuts out a single instruction.  Back
when C was designed, dropping a single instruction Really Mattered.  Today,
this behavior has no place in a high-level (taking high-level to mean
"insulating the programmer from the fact that he is in fact working on a
physical computing device) programming language, so it was not put into the
Python language design; consequentially, the Python virtual machine wasn't
designed to support this behavior meaning that the implemention of this
behavior, originally used as an optimization, would be no more efficient
than separate assignment & comparison statements and would likely be even
less efficient.


Of course, this could all be complete & utter bullshit, but it's a
reasonable extrapolation from what facts I have & my understanding of
things.




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Nov 19 03:31:31 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:31:31 -0600
Subject: quick question
In-Reply-To: <arcnet$hakf3$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> ("Cousin Stanley"'s
 message of "Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:03:14 -0700")
References: <20021116051220.01520.00000047@mb-bk.aol.com>
	<mailman.1037458463.20139.python-list@python.org>
	<arc1p1$h5q7a$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
	<mailman.1037669366.5507.python-list@python.org>
	<arcnet$hakf3$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <m2isyueza4.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Cousin" == Cousin Stanley <CousinStanley at HotMail.com> writes:

    Cousin> John ...  I tried your suggestions of using the function

    Cousin> Did I implement your suggestions correctly ???  For
    Cousin> convenience in adding the mapped test to what I already
    Cousin> had, I used a global dictionary defintion ...

    Cousin> Would that have any significant affects on performace ???

Your implementation was fine.  The answer (as your tests show) is that
the overhead imposed by the function call is more than that of the
loop.  So my guess was wrong, which is why they say test test test
rather than talk talk talk.

I did one thing to try and improve the speed, but it didn't help much.
global lookup of the global dictionary is slow in the counting
function, so I derived a new class from dict called counting_dict

    class counting_dict(dict):
       def __call__(self, key):
          key = key.strip()	
          self[ key ] = self.get( key , 0 ) + 1 

       def get_total(self):
          return reduce(int.__add__, self.values())

which you can use like  

    votes = file('votes.dat').xreadlines()
    favorites = counting_dict()
    map(favorites, votes)
    total = favorites.get_total()   


It's nice, clean code, but it's also considerably slower than the
original, un-psyco-d, loop version


    Elapsed Time :    0.87 Seconds ... loop        (no psyco) 
    Elapsed Time :    1.31 Seconds ... custom dict (no psyco) 

    Cousin> I wasn't sure whether or not the Psyco binding was
    Cousin> necessary for the third pass through the script when the
    Cousin> mapped function is called ???

Well, in either case the map version loses to the normal version, both
psyco'd or both not.  But I would split the test cases into separate
funcs, because once you psyco bind the function, you can't un-psyco it
for further tests (AFAIK)

    Cousin>  Since the printed output lines come out double-spaced
    Cousin> in the mapped function version, where's the most
    Cousin> convenient place to stick the strip() function without
    Cousin> interfering ???

See the __call__ func above.

Note also in your code that

    else :
        if func_Type == 2 :

can be written

    elif func_Type == 2 :

Cheers,
John Hunter



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 18 20:03:55 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:03:55 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <3DD974C6.CD626D0A@alcyone.com> <pan.2002.11.18.23.28.32.968410@uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <3DD98DFB.FCEEF9D3@alcyone.com>

Ben Wolfson wrote:

> I was under the impression that a comparison of two tuples of equal
> length
> amounts to a pairwise comparison of the elements anyway.

It does; I was only using == as an example, the more general case
applies to any comparison operator.  > or >= would have been a better
choice.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ All the people in his neighborhood turn around and get mad and sing
\__/ Public Enemy
    Erik Max Francis' bookmarks / http://www.alcyone.com/max/links/
 A highly categorized list of Web links.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Nov 18 19:58:35 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:58:35 -0600
Subject: multi-quoted strings for HERE documents
In-Reply-To: <slrnatj24u.7mq.msoulier@tigger.digitaltorque.ca> ("Michael P.
 Soulier"'s message of "19 Nov 2002 00:40:45 GMT")
References: <slrnatj24u.7mq.msoulier@tigger.digitaltorque.ca>
Message-ID: <m2bs4middw.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael P Soulier <msoulier at storm.ca._nospam> writes:

    Michael>     But then the block isn't really lined-up the same as
    Michael> the output will look like. It's a minor thing, I know,
    Michael> but it bugs me.

    Michael>     Does anyone have a better way of doing this?


How about

s = """
<table>
    <tr>
        <td>cell contents</td>
    </r>
</table>
"""

print s.lstrip()

Or in python2.3 (untested)
print s.lstrip('\n')

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/whatsnew/node12.html#SECTION0001210000000000000000


John Hunter



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Nov  5 09:23:07 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:23:07 +0100
Subject: bug report w\o registering
References: <mailman.1036471806.10073.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aq8kck$n0i$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:49:20 +1100, "Delaney, Timothy"
<tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:

>> From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl [mailto:anton at vredegoor.doge.nl]
>> 
>> Here's a bug report. I don't want to register at SourceForge now
>> (browser settings etc.). Sorry for the inconvenience.
>
>If you do not submit to sourceforge, the bug report *will* be lost.
>
>In any case, this is not a bug - it is documented behaviour. The order of
>the parameters and return values of os.popen2 and popen2.popen2 are
>different.

Sorry about that! One small nit though:

<docs> (Doc\lib\os-newstreams.html)

This functionality is also available in the popen2 module using
functions of the same names, but the return values of those functions
have a different order. 

<docs>

This tripped me because it says nothing here about parameters.

Regards,

Anton.


From netizen.mail at attbi.com  Fri Nov  8 17:39:34 2002
From: netizen.mail at attbi.com (netizen)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:39:34 GMT
Subject: java bindings
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.08.22.39.41.928710@attbi.com>

Is there a binding for java in python?  I dont mean using jython.
I want to use some of the thinks the java has like jdbc, ldap.  I know 
they exist in python but i would like to try this method instead.


Thanks


From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Tue Nov 12 02:44:28 2002
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:44:28 +0800
Subject: Optimisation problem
Message-ID: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F01ADCE@mexper1.maptek.net.au>

I have created a quaternion class which I am using for rotations in
OpenGL.
Usage goes something like this:

q = Quaternion(zRot, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0)
glMultMatrixf(q.matrix)

Does anyone have any idea how I can optimise this code? It is going to
be used in a very tight rendering loop. I would prefer to keep all the
code in Python, and avoid writing any external modules.

class Quaternion:
	def __init__(self, degree, x, y, z):
		self.matrix = range(16)
		
		angle = (degree / 180.0)  *
3.1415926535897932384626433832795
		result = math.sin(angle / 2.0)

		self.w = math.cos(angle / 2.0)
		self.x = x * result
		self.y = y * result
		self.z = z * result
		self.__createMatrix()

	def __createMatrix(self):
		self.matrix[0] = 1.0 - 2.0 * ( self.y * self.y + self.z
* self.z )
		self.matrix[1] = 2.0 * ( self.x * self.y - self.w *
self.z )
		self.matrix[2] = 2.0 * ( self.x * self.z + self.w *
self.y )
		self.matrix[3] = 0.0
		
		self.matrix[4] = 2.0 * ( self.x * self.y + self.w *
self.z )
		self.matrix[5] = 1.0 - 2.0 * ( self.x * self.x + self.z
* self.z )
		self.matrix[6] = 2.0 * ( self.y * self.z - self.w *
self.x )
		self.matrix[7] = 0.0
		
		self.matrix[8] = 2.0 * ( self.x * self.z - self.w *
self.y )
		self.matrix[9] = 2.0 * ( self.y * self.z + self.w *
self.x )
		self.matrix[10] = 1.0 - 2.0 * ( self.x * self.x + self.y
* self.y )
		self.matrix[11] = 0.0
		
		self.matrix[12] = 0.0
		self.matrix[13] = 0.0
		self.matrix[14] = 0.0
		self.matrix[15] = 1.0


--
simon . wittber @ perth . maptek . com .au 
--



From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Thu Nov 14 22:02:48 2002
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:02:48 +0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
Message-ID: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F01BC97@mexper1.maptek.net.au>

Simon> I doubt that the C / C++ reference includes examples on slicing 
Simon> lists and using dictionaries, whereas the Python reference would 
Simon> *have* to, as these constructs are integral to the language.

>You might be surprised what you would find in the C++ standard
library...

Yeah there's plenty of nice things in the STL, but it's a library, not
part of the language.



From stuart.191 at ntlworld.com  Sat Nov  2 19:10:05 2002
From: stuart.191 at ntlworld.com (Stuart MacGregor)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 00:10:05 +0000
Subject: Tkinter in RH8.0
References: <ArCw9.2407$072.107557@newsfep2-gui> <pan.2002.11.02.13.07.24.183824@goodweb.de> <fJWw9.697$sS5.88294@newsfep2-gui> <3DC44642.3050501@grserv.med.jhmi.edu>
Message-ID: <PPZw9.5644$Do4.109008@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net>

RajGopal Srinivasan wrote:

> I think you will also need tkinter-2.2.1-17.rpm
> 
Yes, also tkinter itself had an rpm which was not loaded. All on disc 3 and 
not loaded by any option on the RH package thing.  It all works now - 
thanks to all for your help.

RH have not loaded gnorpm or kpackage this time - makes rpm browsing more 
work....


From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov  5 10:14:46 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:14:46 GMT
Subject: Ruby and Python (was Re: Why is Python a good first scripting language?)
References: <y5js9.10512$Pk1.5595@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <ap1c7o$25q6$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <Sgiu9.33609$aL4.1010957@news1.tin.it> <m3vg3qjg9n.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Onsu9.34485$aL4.1048035@news1.tin.it> <m2iszk9hwq.fsf@python.net> <JS2x9.217127$S8.4022506@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <m2bs54m4jv.fsf@python.net>

"Patrick Ellis" <pellis at tampabay.rr.com> writes:

> Note that removing the primes = None line results in settling around 8.9
> instead of 8.6. My guess is this has to do with allocating and deallocating
> millions of integer objects to put in the primes list.

And that WinME's memory management appears to suck harder than vacuum.
I haven't tried this, but I bet you wouldn't see that on almost any
other operating system (except possible classic macos).

> The 0.3 sec difference is how long it takes to deallocate the
> returned list. Python 2.3 does memory more efficiently and is why it
> runs faster.

Also, it does let Win32's malloc get near enough to the action to get
confused.

> I came up with a new version that uses the Numeric package. It is
> algorithmically identical, just with a few implementation changes.
> 
> def sieve(n):
>     if n < 2:
>         return []
>     limit = (int(math.sqrt(n)) / 2) + 1
>     primes = Numeric.arrayrange(1, n+1, 2)
>     n = len(primes)
>     for p in primes[1:limit]:
>         if p:
>             # note that p*p is odd, so no need to subtract 1
>             # before shifting right -- same thing in the end
>             primes[(p*p)>>1::p] = 0
>     return list(Numeric.nonzero(primes))
> 
> The same test as above results in:
> 
> Primes took   1.870 seconds
> Primes took   1.810 seconds
> Primes took   1.760 seconds
> Primes took   1.810 seconds
> Primes took   1.870 seconds
> Primes took   1.750 seconds
> Primes took   1.820 seconds
> Primes took   1.810 seconds
> Primes took   1.810 seconds
> Primes took   1.810 seconds

Impressive!

> Because it uses arrays that store the integers directly, instead of many
> tiny integer objects, it doesn't have the memory management overhead and
> resulting increasing runtime. The biggest speed increase is replacing the
> inner loop with an assignment statement to a slice (which doesn't work with
> lists).

It does in Python 2.3 though, and attempting to exploit that found a
bug in the extended slice support (that I wrote, oops).  Anyway, it
was fairly easy to fix, so you've helped Python development with this
post!  Bet you didn't expect that.

Helps the speed a bit, but not enormously (20% or so).

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Just point your web browser at http://www.python.org/search/ and
  look for "program", "doesn't", "work", or "my". Whenever you find
  someone else whose program didn't work, don't do what they
  did. Repeat as needed.    -- Tim Peters, on python-help, 16 Jun 1998


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Fri Nov  1 03:32:12 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?unknown-8bit?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:32:12 +0100
Subject: how to use smtp starttls() encryption?
In-Reply-To: <8f41cfd.0210312325.7ab7969f@posting.google.com>
References: <8f41cfd.0210101719.ad47c7@posting.google.com> <m3fzvdmsa1.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <8f41cfd.0210120805.6ced204a@posting.google.com> <m31y6vl1p0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <8f41cfd.0210162236.3e5c970a@posting.google.com> <mailman.1034855185.30941.python-list@python.org> <8f41cfd.0210211030.33365530@posting.google.com> <mailman.1035237156.20658.python-list@python.org> <8f41cfd.0210312325.7ab7969f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021101083211.GA364@gargamel.ghaering.test>

* Xu, C.S. <xucs007 at yahoo.com> [2002-10-31 23:25 -0800]:
> I did download the openssl-0.9.6g and compiled/installed, and I found
> mandrake 9.0 already use openssl-0.9.6g; but the python 2.2.2
> I downloaded, after compiling still shows it used 0.9.5 ssl.
> Exact same error when I tried to use python 2.2.2 to send out
> emails.
> 
> Now I've setup an temp. email account for you guys to help me
> out, see whether you can use this account send emails first: [...]

Seems to work:

gerhard at gargamel:~$ python
Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 18 2002, 03:24:30)
[GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import smtplib
>>> s = smtplib.SMTP("mail.offleasecomputer.net")
>>> s.starttls()
(220, 'OpenSSL/0.9.5beta go ahead')
>>> s.sendmail("gerhard.haering at gmx.de", ["testpythonsmtp at offleasecomputer.net"
], "hello, does it work?")
{}
>>> s.quit()

-- Gerhard



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Tue Nov 19 20:44:55 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:44:55 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DDA7126.6090308@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <04qltukm3dt8m5v2af4aist7tl2s9pihja@4ax.com>

>BDFLs are great, but (somehow) Lispers got together and managed to carve 
>out Common Lisp and an ANSI spec for it. That's our BDFL.

By the time a language reaches the standards committee, it is
already dead. :)

C//



From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 28 05:40:30 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:40:30 GMT
Subject: status of Jython?
References: <4cce07d5.0211271320.18d76ebc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3el96ouay.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

animeshk at yahoo.com (animeshk) writes:

> I noticed on the Jython site that the last version of Jython is from
> December 2001.

I don't use it, but I believe that version works well.  So the lack of
updates shouldn't be taken as too bad a sign in itself.

> What version of CPython is this "equivalent to" (if
> that makes any sense)?  2.1?

Yes.

> Is there a new version available anywhere?  Thanks!

I think you can get development versions from CVS somewhere.  Don't
know what you'll find there, though.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Gullible editorial staff continues to post links to any and all
  articles that vaguely criticize Linux in any way.
         -- Reason #4 for quitting slashdot today, from
            http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/klee/misc/slashdot.html


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Thu Nov 21 17:29:06 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:29:06 GMT
Subject: To GC or not to GC?
References: <3DDD4751.9050807@nyc.rr.com> <m3bs4ieizl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3DDD5E90.8070500@nyc.rr.com>


Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>1. Is that doc up to date? I see Mar 2002, not too shabby.
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
>>2. Well, I should almost wait before asking further, but if you'll
>>forgive a little lookahead, that "supplements reference counting"
>>scares me. Is ref counting history or not? mind you, i understand
>>there is a lot of code out there taht must be supported, but for new
>>code...?
> 
> 
> What do you mean, "for new code"? The reference counting is still
> done, for all code. There is no reasonable way to disable it for some
> code but leave it active for other code.

Sorry, I looked at Python years ago and thought I saw /manual/ ref 
counting, but maybe that was just the stuff done by C code (which I 
understand is ineluctable).


-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Nov  8 12:58:57 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 18:58:57 +0100
Subject: Question about drawing simple graph in Python?
References: <mailman.1036730290.879.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqguld$5br$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:37:43 -0800 (PST), Mindy <csshi99 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

>I have two lists, say:
>list1 = ['s1','s2','s1','s3'...]
>list2 = ['t1','t2','t3','t3'...]
>
>I want to draw a simple graph, with 's1' points to
>'t1', which means drawing one line between 's1' and
>'s2' and an arrow pointed to 't1'. (for i in
>range(len(list1), there's an edge between list1[i] and
>list2[i]). So how to draw this graph in Python? I

Have a look at:
http://home.hccnet.nl/a.vredegoor/cartesian/cartesian.py

It's a kind of virtual "millimeter" paper, it can be used to draw
points, line pieces and edges between points. If the "withaxes" and
"withgrid" arguments are not set to "yes" it produces the kind of
output as described above. It's not a finished product yet, maybe it's
going to end up as a function plotter, or maybe just as something to
impress mathematicians with, I don't know yet. 

Since it's unfinished there are no docs, this will have to wait until
I'll release it properly. However its possible to look at it already
and it might give some idea's.

Regards,
		Anton.


From tjones at tolisgroup.com  Mon Nov  4 12:28:13 2002
From: tjones at tolisgroup.com (Tim Jones)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 10:28:13 -0700
Subject: Successfully Compiling 2.2.2 w/Tkinter under OS X
References: <mailman.1035931651.4263.python-list@python.org> <m2hef28vzs.fsf@python.net> <mailman.1036097407.20112.python-list@python.org> <afe3b146.0210312333.70e712dd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DC6AE2D.5000703@tolisgroup.com>

Brian Lenihan wrote:
> Tim Jones <tjones at tolisgroup.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036097407.20112.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>Actually, it's AquaTK with tcl/tk 8.4.1 in Aqua mode (tcl/tk apps from 
>>my Solaris and Linux systems work okay with the built version). 
>>macpython-sig answers were to use macpython.  Unfortunately, this only 
>>provide Tkinter support under Classic, not OS X.
>>
>>Queries to other Mac and OS X oriented lists have resulted in silence. 
>>I'm sure that someone has gotten Python and Tkinter working under Aqua 
>>on OS X.
> 
> 
> You have a couple choices:
> 
> 1) Use 2.3a0 from CVS.  It works with AquaTk as-is.
> 2) Cut and paste the relevant portion of setup.py from 2.3.a0 into
> the setup.py of 2.2.2.  The part you need is in detect_tkinter_darwin()
> 
> 8.4.1 seems to have fixed most of the obvious OS X problems.

Thanks for this.  I had just begun digging around in the setup.py script 
to get the libs path configured, but the 2.3 changes saved me from a 
gigantic headache.

---------
Tim Jones                   tjones at tolisgroup.com




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Mon Nov 25 18:24:50 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 01:24:50 +0200
Subject: sockets and encryption
References: <6pintugofjalm0sbg1u2g4q91bdonmbupk@4ax.com> <mailman.1037829043.12404.python-list@python.org> <8hi2uuguh0l0jlmrao1fjshle68op1kt4s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <kulm3hcjwd.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <8hi2uuguh0l0jlmrao1fjshle68op1kt4s at 4ax.com>, Paul Nilsson
<p.nilsson at xtra.co.nz> writes:

| Doesn't ssl involve getting a certificate?

in addition to the homebrew ca/selfsigned cert solution offered by
another poster, ssl also has the option of not using any certificates
at all (at least tls does, quick look makes me thing it was also in
sslv3). this is called "anonymous" mode. it is simpler and safer if
you would ignore the server certificate in any case.

eg in openssl you can use these modes by using ciphersuites
that have names beginning with "ADH-".

(aside: this would be good for smtp opportunistic encryption
w/starttls, although atleast sendmail out of the box seems to be
configured to refuse anonymous connections for some reason).

but as with the self-signed certificates, this can leave you open
to man in the middle attacks. you can solve this by doing your own
authentication inside the ssl connection.

  -- erno


From news at agapow.net  Mon Nov  4 14:44:07 2002
From: news at agapow.net (Paul-Michael Agapow)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:44:07 +0000
Subject: [mac] Synopsis on OS X 
Message-ID: <1fl4r1l.yrjemn6armnyN%news@agapow.net>

I've just have a few go at installing Synopsis on Mac OS X and neither
the last release or the CVS version want to install, despite several
permutations of autoconf, ./configure, make, at one point even
complaining of the lack of a valid python installation! I've probably
missed something obvious, but has anyone else had any success? 

(Relevant details: Python 2.2, MacOS 10.2)

-- 
Paul-Michael Agapow (news at agapow.net)



From clspence at one.net  Mon Nov  4 19:05:19 2002
From: clspence at one.net (Chris Spencer)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 18:05:19 -0600
Subject: help() function
Message-ID: <0h2esukvqtolp17lt0hdg72ua9t038k18v@4ax.com>

	The documentation makes it clear that the help() function is only used
in interactive mode.  However, I see it as a really neato-way of generating
standalone .txt files from docstrings in modules.  However, as it currently
stands, it looks like help() can ONLY be used in interactive mode, which means I
can't capture the output to a file.
	Is there any way to get the same docstring formatting that help() uses,
but be able to capture it to a variable or a file handle?
	Inquiring minds want to know.

Chris.



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Nov 27 18:07:42 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:07:42 -0500
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org>
 <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
 <3DE44D27.3030904@something.invalid> <6GH59kKkXIpD092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1038382477.9003.python-list@python.org>
 <3de4953d$0$71699$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <+AV59kKkXEkQ092yn@gnosis.cx>         

"Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> wrote previously:
|> reduce = lambda func, seq, init=None:\
|>          [(l.append(func(l[i],seq[i])),l[-1])
|>                          for l in [[init or seq[0]]]
|>                          for i in range(len(seq))][-1][1]
|
|Needs more "improvement" ;-)
|>>> reduce(operator.add, [1,2,3])
|6
|>>> lulu_reduce(operator.add, [1,2,3])
|7

Yep. I got the stuff with optional 'init' wrong.  Here's a version I am
more confident about:

  reduce_ = lambda func, seq, init=None:\
            [(l.append(func(l[-1],e)),l[-1])
                for l in [init is None and seq[:1] or [init]]
                for e in seq[init is None:]][-1][1]

Bengt Richter proposed a slightly longer version, but it required an
external 'id' variable.  I like mine better, especially now that I got
rid of the 'i' numeric indexing, and just iterate directly over a slice
of 'seq'.

  >>> from sick import reduce_
  >>> from operator import add
  >>> reduce(add, range(5)), reduce_(add, range(5))
  (10, 10)
  >>> reduce(add, range(1,5)), reduce_(add, range(1,5))
  (10, 10)
  >>> reduce(add, range(5), 0), reduce_(add, range(5), 0)
  (10, 10)
  >>> reduce(add, range(1,5), 0), reduce_(add, range(1,5), 0)
  (10, 10)
  >>> reduce(add, range(5), 10), reduce_(add, range(5), 10)
  (20, 20)
  >>> reduce(add, range(1,5), 10), reduce_(add, range(1,5), 10)
  (20, 20)

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s




From grante at visi.com  Sat Nov  9 20:17:22 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 01:17:22 GMT
Subject: How to execute a command line in a Python program?
References: <mailman.1036886716.15027.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasrd1e.1fs.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1036886716.15027.python-list at python.org>, Mindy wrote:

> Hey, in my python program, I want to call another
> program or command, say, emacs filename&,

os.system("emacs filename&")

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  This is PLEASANT!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Nov 10 02:10:18 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:10:18 -0800
Subject: PEP #99484663
References: <m2isz6ue4f.fsf@desk.crynwr.com>
Message-ID: <3DCE065A.D770FADF@alcyone.com>

Russell Nelson wrote:

> In this manner, people who are unable to wean themselves from silly
> syntactic block structure tokens will be happy with Python, rather
> than continually whinging about how horrible it is that indentation is
> meaningful to the program.

Indentation in Python is done differently than those other languages. 
If someone's migrating from one of them, they should learn to use the
language they're using, not try to make the language they're using more
like what they're used to.

This is the some kind of (in my opinion obnoxious) approach that leads
Pascal programs to ease into C with the likes of

	#define begin {
	#define end }

Program in the language you're using.  The proper answer to "How do I
make language X (which I'm learning) more like language Y (which I'm
used to)?" is "Learn language X separately from language Y."

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You win the victory when you yield to friends.
\__/ Sophocles
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 20 14:19:03 2002
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 11:19:03 -0800
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org> <3DDB3373.2578CEC0@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0211201119.2f846d0c@posting.google.com>

On Tuesday 19 November 2002 11:37 am, Michele Simionato
<mis6 at pitt.edu>
wrote in comp.lang.python:
> A simple trick to simulate static variables by passing an optional
> mutable object is the following:
> 
> def f(x,i=[0]): # i[0] is the "static" variable
>     i[0]+=1
>     return x+i[0]
> 
> print f(0),f(0),f(0) #--> 1,2,3

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<3DDB3373.2578CEC0 at alcyone.com>...
> Oh, of course; there's really no question why this is the case in the
> current implementation.  My point is that there is no real a priori
> reason why mutable default arguments couldn't do the equivalent of
> 
> 	def f(x=None):
> 	    if x is None:
> 	        x = SomethingMutable
> 	    ...
> because it's the easiest obvious implementation -- but there's no reason
> in and of itself that it _must_ be done that way.

Sorry for digressing, but this reminds me of an old debate on whether
Python is suitable as the first language to teach.

Well, the thing is that Python works with "name binding". And the
concepts of name spaces, name binding, objects, mutability, etc. are
just a bit non-obvious. Once a person understands these things, or if
a person knows about pointers, hashmaps and memory structure,
everything becomes clear. But for someone not familiar with either of
these sets of concepts, Python can be hard to explain.

After many years in the Python world and having seen so many debates,
I still have to say that Python is not good as the first programming
language to teach.

>From the perspective of someone who is in the working world, I'd like
to see Python being taught in colleges/universities, but not as the
first language. Rather, I'd imagine some sort of Python workshop
course, where students are assigned different topics, and then do some
presentations to the class. Python is valuable as a door opener to
many fields in modern software development. But I have my reservations
about its suitability as the first language to learn. Maybe it's just
me, but I have been horrified by programmers writing a few lines of
code, without realizing their few lines of code can actually have
severe impact on the RAM or the harddrive. I still feel more
comfortable if the new generation of programmers starts with a
language closer to the machine level, where one can kind of "feel" the
bits and bytes. Just my 2 cents. :)

Hung Jung


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Nov 13 17:26:53 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:26:53 -0600
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302DB4E8B@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Cameron Horn [mailto:camhorn at mac.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:26 PM
>  
> On Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002, at 02:19PM, <sismex01 at hebmex.com> wrote:
> 
> >> From: Cameron Horn [mailto:camhorn at mac.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:20 PM
> >>  
> >> On Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002, at 02:16PM, David Eppstein 
> >> <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
> >> 
> >> >On 11/13/02 2:11 PM -0800 Cameron Horn <camhorn at mac.com> wrote:
> >> >>> What I wonder is, why does it need to be a generator?  
> >> What's wrong with
> >> >>> def foo(): return ( )
> >> >>> ?
> >> >>
> >> >> You're right if it's a one-time thing.  However, if I've got a
> >> >> scaffolding like this, then it matters.
> >> >>
> >> >> def process_generator(function):
> >> >>    for x in function():
> >> >>       print x
> >> >
> >> >How does the function foo() I defined above fail to work in this 
> >> >scaffolding?
> >> 
> >> In the "TypeError: iteration over non-sequence" sort of way.
> >>
> >
> >An empty tuple is a sequence also;
> >
> >the "return ( )" thing is returning an empty tuple,
> >not "None".  You can make it clearer by using
> >"return tuple()" rather than "return ()".
> 
> Oops.  Missed those parentheses.  Then it is completely 
> useful, unless you end up using the "next" method.
>

In that case, if you reckon you're going to use .next()
directly, then you should change 'foo' to something like
the following:

def foo(): return iter(tuple())

It's going to return a valid iterator which is going to
try to iterate through an empty tuple, so it's going
to raise StopIteration the first time you call .next().


HTH

-gustavo



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 09:21:13 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:21:13 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037846248.22487.python-list@python.org> <m2bs4jc8jl.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <tZ5D9.36447$744.1329828@news1.tin.it>

Paul Foley wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:36:24 +0800, Maptek  wrote:
> 
>> Even if Python and Ruby have or will have the _capabilities_ that Lisp
>> has, (Python (will (never (be (lisp))))).
> 
> Then it'll never have the _capabilities_ that Lisp has; because the
> syntax is the major source of those _capabilities_ that distinguish
> Lisp from lesser languages.

It seems to me that Dylan is a creditable attempt to deny this assertion -- 
Dylan has no lisp-oid syntax, yet Dylan's capabilities do appear to be 
quite similar to Lisp's at least at the level of approximation that "major 
source" would seem to entail.


Alex



From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Sun Nov 17 21:49:10 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:49:10 +1300
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <ar4rgh$nj2$1@panix3.panix.com> <ar5r65$uq6$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3DD85526.6020606@something.invalid>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> I assumed that it is possible to release all references to an imported module, so that
> the garbage collector can eliminate it from memory


That won't happen -- the module remains in the global
list of modules maintained by the interpreter, even if
all other references to it go away.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Nov 26 13:03:10 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 18:03:10 GMT
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no> <arsqsd$3j5$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <aruf6o$bd7$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <Xns92D2652D276CAduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <arvjdu$4nk$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <as0d0u$1up6$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu>:
| Duncan Booth wrote:
|> If you have more than one or two patterns, then you should really be
|> thinking about a loop rather than a long list of if statements: 
|> 
|> PATTERNS = [
|>  (regex1, action1),
|>  (regex2, action2),
|>  # ...
|> ]
|> 
|> for regex, action in PATTERNS:
|>    match = regex.match(string)
|>    if match:
|>        action(match)
|>        break
|> 
|> I don't see any need for assignment in an 'if' here.
|
| Other people often clamor for assignment if here, because the way you
| did is an unnatural and circumlocative way to do something most
| people, myself included, want to do as a sequential piece of code.

I think I can see that.  Not that there isn't any place for table
driven procedures, but it isn't ideal for everything.  I wouldn't
go so far as to say it makes sense to therefore give assignments
a value - don't like that idea at all - but ironically it seems to
me that the main argument for it stems from a weakness in Python
that isn't shared by languages like C that actually have this feature.

If instead of Python we were looking at a language that were more
specifically aimed at text analysis and a little less scrupulously
explicit, I could imagine the results of a match turning up in magic
state variables, like

    if (line ~ /^\(.*\): \(.*\)$/) {
        tag = $1
        val = $2
    } ...

In C, everything is naturally explicit, but the function value per se
is often just a boolean status and the data is returned by other means.

    if (regexp(line, "/^\(.*\): \(.*\)$/", &rv)) {
        tag = rv.group[0];
        val = rv.group[1];
    }

Of course it's part of the attraction that Python relieves us of pointers
and magic state variables, but in this matter it's kind of unfortunate
that the function value is the function return, so to speak.  Status has
to be communicated through special data values like None, or like the
negative return of string.find().

That can't be helped, but where reaches a sufficient level of annoyance,
seems to me the general outlines of the OOP solution are fairly obvious -

     if rv.match(line, "/^\(.*\): \(.*\)$/"):
         tag = rv.group[1]
         val = rv.group[2]

In other words, an object that stores the result of a computation and
returns its status (and maybe stores that, too, for its __nonzero__.)

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Wed Nov 27 17:29:00 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:29:00 GMT
Subject: Passing COM IDispatch from C to PythonCOM
In-Reply-To: <mu9F9.205$bV3.31@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <mu9F9.205$bV3.31@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <MGbF9.20639$hg1.57756@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Jon Redgrave wrote:
> I have a C program that has an IDispatch pointer to a COM object.
> I want to run an embedded python script that uses this IDispatch pointer
> (using Mark Hammond's excellent win32all), but do not know how to pass it to
> the script.
> 
> PythonCOM appears to wrap IDispatch's in PyIDispatch object, How do I wrap
> it, or can I somehow pass it another way (as an int??) and wrap it in
> Python?

You need pass the object to:

PYCOM_EXPORT PyObject *PyCom_PyObjectFromIUnknown(IUnknown *punk, REFIID 
riid, BOOL bAddRef = FALSE);


defined in pythoncom.h

Mark.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 29 16:05:25 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 22:05:25 +0100
Subject: catch output of threads
References: <87of88723i.fsf@flibuste.net> <m3lm3ct88i.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87el946qjl.fsf@flibuste.net>
Message-ID: <m38yzct7ca.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

William <wilk-spamout at flibuste.net> writes:

> It's why i cannot use this method... I specialy want to catch the output
> to don't mix the ouput from all the threads.
> 
> Is there a way to redefine print ? 

Yes, but you need to modify the interpreter source code. There is no
way in pure Python.

Regards,
Martin


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Wed Nov  6 04:19:39 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?unknown-8bit?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:19:39 +0100
Subject: how to use smtp starttls() encryption?
In-Reply-To: <8f41cfd.0211051623.1d024e29@posting.google.com>
References: <8f41cfd.0211051623.1d024e29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021106091938.GB390@gargamel.ghaering.test>

* Xu, C.S. <xucs007 at yahoo.com> [2002-11-05 16:23 -0800]:
> Gerhard,
> 
> > 'Sending out' is configured differently than receiving mail. Note that
> > in my example, I sent mail to your domain, using your smtp server,
> > which is thus already the 'final destination'.
> > 
> > No relaying involved here. The main point of SMTP auth is to prevent
> > unauthorized relaying, and therefore you require it only for mail to
> > domains other than yours.
> > 
> 
> I did notice that, so I tried
> 	s.sendmail('testpythonsmtp at offleasecomputer.net',
> 'somebody at hotmail.com', 'test') 
> It also works. This did include relaying, right?

Yes.

> My question is, what if other people run the same script on their computer,
> the people don't know the password to my email account. Can they still send
> out emails? Looks possible, because the script didn't send out password at
> all.

Depends on your mail server configuration. See below for mine.

> Then what's the point to use TLS to prevent spamming?

That's probably not the main point. You could read the RFC for a rationale,
I suppose. Though you could get authorization in using starttls if you used
client certificates, that's probably not the most common scenario. I
believe people use SMTP AUTH (provided via login in smtplib) to get, well,
uhm, authorized SMTP ;-)

> Another questions is, will starttls() tackle with those servers with SSL
> encryptions?

With whatever OpenSSL supports (SSLv2, SSLv3, TLS).

> To my knowledge, TLS is the next generation of SSL.

Yeah, the STARTTLS extension was called ...TLS to reflect that already.

> Even the recentest doc on python.org doesn't have any explanation on
> starttls() yet, :-(

You must have used the time machine the wrong way:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/SMTP-objects.html

My Postfix configuration (with default comments). Especially the comments
show how to properly configure an SMTP server to prevent spamming:

    [...]
    # TRUST AND RELAY CONTROL

    # The mynetworks parameter specifies the list of "trusted" SMTP
    # clients that have more privileges than "strangers".
    #
    # In particular, "trusted" SMTP clients are allowed to relay mail
    # through Postfix.  See the smtpd_recipient_restrictions parameter
    # in file sample-smtpd.cf.
    #
    # You can specify the list of "trusted" network addresses by hand
    # or you can let Postfix do it for you (which is the default).
    #
    # By default (mynetworks_style = subnet), Postfix "trusts" SMTP
    # clients in the same IP subnetworks as the local machine.
    # On Linux, this does works correctly only with interfaces specified
    # with the "ifconfig" command.
    # 
    # Specify "mynetworks_style = class" when Postfix should "trust" SMTP
    # clients in the same IP class A/B/C networks as the local machine.
    # Don't do this with a dialup site - it would cause Postfix to "trust"
    # your entire provider's network.  Instead, specify an explicit
    # mynetworks list by hand, as described below.
    #  
    # Specify "mynetworks_style = host" when Postfix should "trust"
    # only the local machine.
    # 
    # mynetworks_style = class
    # mynetworks_style = subnet
    # mynetworks_style = host

    # Alternatively, you can specify the mynetworks list by hand, in
    # which case Postfix ignores the mynetworks_style setting.
    #
    # Specify an explicit list of network/netmask patterns, where the
    # mask specifies the number of bits in the network part of a host
    # address.
    #
    # You can also specify the absolute pathname of a pattern file instead
    # of listing the patterns here. Specify type:table for table-based lookups
    # (the value on the table right-hand side is not used).
    #
    #mynetworks = 168.100.189.0/28, 127.0.0.0/8
    #mynetworks = $config_directory/mynetworks
    #mynetworks = hash:/etc/postfix/network_table
    mynetworks = 192.168.2.0/8, 127.0.0.0/8

    # The relay_domains parameter restricts what clients this mail system
    # will relay mail from, or what destinations this system will relay
    # mail to.  See the smtpd_recipient_restrictions restriction in the
    # file sample-smtpd.cf for detailed information.
    #
    # By default, Postfix relays mail
    # - from "trusted" clients whose IP address matches $mynetworks, 
    # - from "trusted" clients matching $relay_domains or subdomains thereof,
    # - from untrusted clients to destinations that match $relay_domains
    #   or subdomains thereof, except addresses with sender-specified routing.
    # The default relay_domains value is $mydestination.
    # 
    # In addition to the above, the Postfix SMTP server by default accepts mail
    # that Postfix is final destination for:
    # - destinations that match $inet_interfaces,
    # - destinations that match $mydestination
    # - destinations that match $virtual_maps.
    # These destinations do not need to be listed in $relay_domains.
    # 
    # Specify a list of hosts or domains, /file/name patterns or type:name
    # lookup tables, separated by commas and/or whitespace.  Continue
    # long lines by starting the next line with whitespace. A file name
    # is replaced by its contents; a type:name table is matched when a
    # (parent) domain appears as lookup key.
    #
    # NOTE: Postfix will not automatically forward mail for domains that
    # list this system as their primary or backup MX host. See the
    # permit_mx_backup restriction in the file sample-smtpd.cf.
    #
    relay_domains = $mydestination

So basically, I allow relaying only from clients in the local network and
from localhost (192.168.2.0/8 and 127.0.0.0/8) and I relay only for
$mydestination, which is my domain.

HTH & HAND,

-- Gerhard



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Thu Nov 21 02:38:22 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:38:22 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <acrhra.634.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <s43ptu4q4q5makdjolml48i9vj7f4ipgr4@4ax.com>

>        Macros in LISP may make it possible to write "extremely readable code" 
>-- but what level of LISP expertise is required to write those macros?
>
>        If you have to supply the macros ahead of time, the users aren't 
>learning LISP, they are learning "MacroExtendedLISP"...

A number of "standard constructs" used routinely in LISP are actually
macros in some standard distributions, such as Franz. One of the
genuinely useful capabilities of LISP is the ability to define domain-
specific languages. Although certain negatives do apply, of course.

C//



From theller at python.net  Wed Nov 20 05:32:01 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 11:32:01 +0100
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <arfgtg$fhj$1@Fourier.suse.de>
Message-ID: <7kf83526.fsf@python.net>

Gernot Hillier <ghillie at suse.de> writes:

> I can't answer your question exactly - but I personally would suggest to not 
> create a new thread state but doing it this way:
> 
>     Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREAD
>     call_some_c_code(_save)
>     Py_END_ALLOW_THREAD
> 
> 
> If you don't understand this, please note that Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS 
> expands to "{ PyThreadState *_save; _save = PyEval_SaveThread();".
> 
> call_some_c_code() has to pass the PyThreadState* to 
> call_back_into_python(). There you should do s.th. like this:
> 
> void call_back_into_python(PyThreadState *s)
> {
>     PyEval_PyEval_RestoreThread(s)
>     // do your work
>     PyEval_SaveThread();
> }

Unfortunately it won't work this way.

Think of call_some_c_code() being the C standard library's qsort
function, and call_back_into_python() is the function pointer I gave
qsort to do the comparison. There's no way to pass the thread state to
the callback function!

Storing the thread state in a global variable would be possible, but
in this case it wouldn't be thread safe, I assume, and *only* work if
the callout into C is done by my extension module.

Thanks,

Thomas


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Nov 23 12:23:29 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 11:23:29 -0600
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
In-Reply-To: <m2hee88dvx.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>
        <743utuoi3l31t8e8tt9v3sncosuk2gqi02@4ax.com>
        <1239.92T1047T4844497threeseas@earthlink.net>
        <m2hee88dvx.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <15839.47505.501354.247912@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    John>   x = []
    John>   y = []
    John>   x.append(1)
    John>   print y

I'm sure John meant

    x = []
    y = x
    x.append(1)
    print y

;-)

Skip



From brian_l at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 13:28:41 2002
From: brian_l at yahoo.com (Brian Lenihan)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 10:28:41 -0800
Subject: PySol Windows binaries, anyone?
References: <mailman.1036695670.29735.python-list@python.org> <afe3b146.0211072015.e3ddd81@posting.google.com> <m72k2ob1b0d0$.qv6osv0ymkhj.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <afe3b146.0211081028.264e4c08@posting.google.com>

Jarek Zgoda <jarek at usun.zgoda.biz> wrote in message news:<m72k2ob1b0d0$.qv6osv0ymkhj.dlg at 40tude.net>...
> Dnia 7 Nov 2002 20:15:59 -0800, brian_l at yahoo.com (Brian Lenihan) pisze 
> na grupie comp.lang.python:
> 
> > http://homepage.mac.com/brian_l
> 
> Sorry, 404 Not Found...
> 

That must have been an outage at mac.com (that's an ell in my name not
a one). I should have said what is there: patches to get pysol working
and binaries and source for the pysolsoundserver which has been
patched to play MP3s (non VBR).

> -- 
> Zdr?wko
> Jarek Zgoda


From lbrannma at cablespeed.com  Thu Nov  7 17:09:29 2002
From: lbrannma at cablespeed.com (Lance)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:09:29 -0800
Subject: embedding error
Message-ID: <uslonkijj2aq66@corp.supernews.com>

Hi,

The code in section 5.3 of the Python "Extending and Embedding the Python
Interpreter" won't compile for me. I get a link error,

LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "python22_d.lib"

I include stdafx.h and python.h at the top of my C program.

Python22_d.lib is not on my machine. I'm running a recent release of
PythonWin.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Lance




From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Nov 12 19:04:43 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 00:04:43 GMT
Subject: Convert type() to string?
References: <s2gA9.47879$Lg2.13805658@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <aqs4ur$1se8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth "Robert Oschler" <Oschler at earthlink.net>:
| I want to be able to print out the type() of a string for a "structure
| walker" I'm writing.  I need to be able to prepend a string of pad
| characters to the type() so the following:
|
| print padstr + type(x)
|
| won't work because type() does not return a string.  What's a good way to do
| this?  I'm using Python 2.1 + Python 2.2 (2.1 for Jython).

Arguably the best way might be "don't do that!"  and do
  print padstr, type(x)      instead.

But anyway, the "print" command in effect uses the str() function to make
type(x) into a string, and so can you.  The alternative would be repr(),
which is an interesting philosophical dilemma but not an interesting
practical one, since they come out the same in this case.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From wilk-spamout at flibuste.net  Thu Nov 28 08:53:20 2002
From: wilk-spamout at flibuste.net (William)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 14:53:20 +0100
Subject: Distributing python applications for Windows users
References: <d1134b83.0211280532.6e306f0c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87el95ls1b.fsf@flibuste.net>

martyn_quick at yahoo.co.uk (Martyn Quick) writes:

> What's the best way to distribute an application written in Python
> (consisting of quite a few modules and using Tkinter/Pmw for GUI) so
> that it can be used by someone who is using MS Windows without
> requiring them to install Python itself?

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/
Convert python scripts into standalone windows programs

it's very easy

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Nov 26 23:14:35 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:14:35 -0500
Subject: PyGTA Announcement: next meeting is Thursday December 12, 8-10 pm
Message-ID: <3DE446AB.1AFDAB7B@engcorp.com>

I'm pleased to announce that next meeting of PyGTA, the Toronto-area 
Python and Zope user group, will be on Thursday December 12.

It will be held at the 519 Church St. Community Centre,
near Wellesley, from 8 to 10 p.m.  This is the same location
as last time.

Please visit http://web.engcorp.com/pygta/wiki/NextMeeting
for other details of the meeting, as usual.  As usual we're extending 
an invitation to you to come and present for 5-10 minutes on your own 
Python activity if you believe it will be of interest to others...
just let us know ahead of time so we can leave time for it.

In addition, note our new Mailman-based mailing lists, described
at http://web.engcorp.com/pygta/wiki/MailingLists .  The old
announcement list has been replaced, and there is a general list
for group discussion purposes as well.

-Ian Garmaise and
 Peter Hansen,
 PyGTA organizers


From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 27 14:01:34 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:01:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <mailman.1038414274.6010.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnauaif6.1gv.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:20:13 -0000, Simon Brunning napisa?(a):
> See <http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue83/evans.html>.
Thanks! Great article. Now the code looks like this:

---
import sys

def prompt():
   return raw_input("Put a digit here: ")

try:
   a = prompt()
   while 1:
      a = a.replace(' ','')
      if a[0] == '-' and a[1:].isdigit():
         a = int(a)
         break
      elif not a.isdigit():
         a = prompt()
      else:
         a = int(a)
         break
except:
   print sys.exc_info()[1]
   sys.exit()
---

...and it's not too bad example of reliable code getting input from users ;)

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From george at omniti.com  Wed Nov 20 19:27:28 2002
From: george at omniti.com (George Schlossnagle)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:27:28 -0500
Subject: embedding python interpreter
Message-ID: <0401714B-FCE8-11D6-A760-000393B2B3C0@omniti.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to embed a python interpreter into a c daemon to allow for 
drop in python modules.  What I have seems to work but doesn;t seem to 
be the 'right' way to do it.

I allow two config options in my user config file, one for specifying a 
module to import, and another that has a function which is the callback 
called from the daemon.

I do my import as:

int python_import(char *module) {
     PyObject *pModule, *pName;
     pName = PyString_FromString(module);
     pModule = PyImport_Import(pName);
     if(pModule == NULL) {
         fprintf(stderr, "Failed to load \"%s\"\n", module);
         return NULL;
     }
     return 1;
}


(This is called from a lex/bison parsed config file once, the 
interpeter is already started).  Then on certain input, this callback 
is called, with the function name (as module.name, since multiple 
callbacks can be registered):

int python_log(char *func, char *sender, char *group, char *message) {
     int retval;
     char *ptr;
     PyObject *pFunction, *pFunctionName, *pSender, *pGroup, *pMessage;
     PyObject *pModuleName, *pDict, *pArgs;


     pSender = PyString_FromString(sender);
     pGroup = PyString_FromString(group);
     pMessage = PyString_FromString(message);
     ptr = strrchr(func, '.');
     if(ptr == NULL) {
         fprintf(stderr, "Function call must be <package>.<name>\n");
         return NULL;
     }
     pFunctionName = PyString_FromString(ptr + 1);
     pModuleName = PyString_FromStringAndSize(func, ptr - func);
     pDict = PyModule_GetDict(PyImport_Import(pModuleName));
     Py_DECREF(pModuleName);
     if(pDict == NULL) {
         return NULL;
     }
     pFunction = PyDict_GetItem(pDict, pFunctionName);
     if(pFunction == NULL) {
         fprintf(stderr, "Function not found\n");
         return NULL;
     }
     pArgs = PyTuple_New(2);
     PyTuple_SetItem(pArgs, 0, pSender);
     PyTuple_SetItem(pArgs, 1, pGroup);
     PyTuple_SetItem(pArgs, 2, pMessage);
     PyObjectCallObject(pFunction, pArgs);
     Py_DECREF(pArgs);
     return 1;
}


This seems to be the wrong way to find the correct PyDict object to get 
pFunction from.  It seems wrong to have to strrchr my function name to 
get a module.  It seems like there should be a way to get the symbol 
table for my current scope.

It seems that this should be the acse, but I can't figure out how....  
Any advice on doing this more correctly would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

George




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Nov  5 05:53:36 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 11:53:36 +0100
Subject: How does Python handle probing to see if a file already exists?
References: <pan.2002.11.05.10.28.55.506357@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <j4heew1e4v.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Christopher R. Culver" <Kricxjo.neniuspamajxo at yahoo.com> writes:

> However, translating that directly into Python doesn't work because if
> Python can't find a file to open, it doesn't just return 0, it gives an
> error and exits. How can I write this functionality in Python so that it
> returns 0 and continues, or does Python have a totally different way of
> handling this problem than C?

The set of error conditions is nearly identical between C and Python,
as Python adds only a thin wrapper around the C library.

However, the way in which errors are reported to the program is
completely different: C uses return values and implicitly-changing
global variables (errno); Python uses exceptions. In the specific
case, what you see is the IOError exception. If it is not caught, it
causes a program exit, with an error message (which we call
'traceback').

If you expect certain errors to happen, you can prepare for that in
the program:

try:
    f = open('/usr/bin/foo','r')
except IOError:
    some code here

There are variations to this try-except statement, see

http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/try.html

In this case, the most common variations would be

try:
    f = open('/usr/bin/foo','r')
except IOError, exc:
    if exc.ENOENT:
        # expecting that the file does not exist
        some code here
    else:
        # some unexpected error: re-raise
        raise

if you want to process only a single case of IOError, and

try:
    f = open('/usr/bin/foo','r')
except IOError:
    some code here, f is still unassigned
else:
    normal processing, can use f.

if you can execute the normal processing only if opening succeeded.

Regards,
Martin


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Mon Nov  4 12:30:02 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:30:02 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb and threads
Message-ID: <aq69sk$8tb$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Hi,

I plan to make SQL queries in different threads of an application using
MySQLdb.
Can I use the same Connection object in all threads (each thread having its
own cursor) for the queries ? Or should I use a different Connection object
for each thread ?

TIA for your hints !

--Gilles





From tismer at tismer.com  Thu Nov 21 16:18:21 2002
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:18:21 +0100
Subject: SHA-2 state of the art?
References: <3DDCE92C.70803@tismer.com> <200211220806.29617.rjones@ekit-inc.com>
Message-ID: <3DDD4D9D.7030008@tismer.com>

Richard Jones wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 1:09 am, Christian Tismer wrote:
> 
>>Hi friends,
>>
>>I am looking for implementations of SHA-256
>>and SHA-512, and I found CryptKit so far.
>>http://eevolved.com/cryptkit/
>>Does anybody know of alternative activities?
> 
> 
> shax-py from http://philosophysw.com/software/
> 
> via
> 
> http://www.amk.ca/cgi-bin/pypi.cgi?:action=display&name=shax-py&version=0.9

Hey Rich, you're alive!

thanks a lot, I'm looking into this as well.

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  8 09:08:43 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:08:43 -0000
Subject: Ethics in abstract disciplines (was: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book))
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f@posting.google.com> <815e8a38.0211071038.208c7577@posting.google.com> <slrnasle4n.7kt.charles@homer.pentek.org>
Message-ID: <usnhbbotggus7c@corp.supernews.com>

In article <slrnasle4n.7kt.charles at homer.pentek.org>,
Charles Krug <charles at pentek.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Interesting.  I doubled in both Math and CS.  Half of the CS courses had
>an ethics component, while none of the maths did.
>
><irony>
>Which only makes sense.  I've never heard of a fudged mathmatical model
>used to support the desired conclusion of a sponsor with deep pockets.
>
>Have you?
></irony>
>

I don't understand this description.  It
certainly interests me, though.  I take
it that "CS" here means the kind of soft-
ware engineering and technology that's
typicall taught in college.  And you're
seriously saying that sections on ethics
appeared in half of your classes?  Can
you give a few examples of such content?

I know of abundant ethical questions spe-
cific to mathematicians.  I can supply
plenty of examples of "fudged mathematical
model[s]", if that'll help.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 11 16:58:32 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:58:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Question about drawing simple graph in Python?
In-Reply-To: <aqguld$5br$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <20021111215832.92778.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com>

> Have a look at:
>
http://home.hccnet.nl/a.vredegoor/cartesian/cartesian.py
> 
> It's a kind of virtual "millimeter" paper, it can be
> used to draw
> points, line pieces and edges between points. If the
> "withaxes" and
> "withgrid" arguments are not set to "yes" it
> produces the kind of
> output as described above. 

Thanks so much. This really produces the graph with
edges and nodes. But I have two more questions.

1) How to stick a name to the node? For example, the
current edge is just a line like:
  ------------>
But I want there're nodes' names attached to each
node, such like:

  pt1--------->pt2

How to draw the above edge?

2) I met such situation:
I have edges (pt1,pt2) (pt2,pt3) (pt1,pt3)
But when I draw, I only get:
  pt1----->pt2------>pt3
which doesn't show there's an edge between (pt1,pt3).
Because the line between pt1 and pt2 overlaps with the
lines between pt1,pt2 and pt2,pt3. How to fix this?

THanks for more help!




=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sat Nov 23 19:22:06 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:22:06 +1100
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A776@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: questions at smartcardware.com [mailto:questions at smartcardware.com]
> 

Apart from the basic question "Is Python a good scripting language for a
game" to which the answer is an empathic "Yes" ;) - and has been stated
elsewhere you can easily embed Python into C/C++ - much more so than most
scripting languages ...

Surrounding your subject with things like ~~~ (or any repeated sequence of
non alphanumeric characters) is likely to get your message marked as spam by
many systems.

Tim Delaney



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov 27 05:05:54 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 02:05:54 -0800
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <698f09f8.0211261046.582254a5@posting.google.com> <3DE40E21.A547F49E@alcyone.com> <698f09f8.0211270143.5a3b9f0f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DE49902.BE880724@alcyone.com>

Jeremy Fincher wrote:

> Since they operate on any sequence, they should be methods of any
> sequence.  As functions, yes, they operate on all sequences, but they
> only return lists.  As methods, map/filter would return sequences of
> the same type they operated on, which is (IMO) far more appropriate.
> 
> In short, why should a map on a string return a list instead of a
> string?  Why should a filter on a binary tree return a list instead of
> another binary tree?

> But I think it would be more appropriate for map/filter to return
> sequences of the same type as their argument sequences, not just
> return lists blindly.  And that requires that map/filter be methods,
> not functions over sequences.

Yes, it does, but it also means that everyone who ever wants to
implement a sequence type needs to define __filter__ and __map__ methods
(say) or you can't do filtering and mapping with them.  Filter and map
are general algorithms over sequence types -- all you need to use them
is iteration, which is what all sequence types have in common.

The fact that filter and map return lists regardless of the original
sequence type is simply a necessary evil, because it means that it can
now do something meaningful for _all_ sequence types, whether or not
those particular custom types had any special dispensation for filtering
or mapping.  With your approach, if someone makes a sequence-compatible
type but doesn't give me the right methods, I'm out of luck, even though
it's about _algorithms_ not about methods.

Filter and map are about generalized ways of dealing with sequences. 
They end up returning newly-created sequence types, and since the
standard sequence type in Python is a list, they return lists.  If you
want to turn that back into a custom sequence type, you're more than
welcome to do it; in your example, you can just do ''.join(map(..., S))
if you want to apply map to a string S and then return it back into a
string.  If you can only use filter and map when the appropriate method
is defined in the custom type, then you're leaving yourself in a
situation where you can't use filter/map over any sequence even though
there's no logical reason why you shouldn't.  All that a sequence type
needs to define is a __getitem__ method with the appropriate semantics;
you're saying you'd need to define __filter__ and __map__ (say), and if
you take this argument to the fullest, a whole slew of other methods as
well.

Filter and map can _operate_ on any sequence, but they return lists
since that's the logical generic sequence type to return.  If you want
to turn that back into some other custom sequence type after the fact,
just go ahead.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I'm crying everyone's tears
\__/ Sade
    Bosskey.net: Aliens vs. Predator 2 / http://www.bosskey.net/avp2/
 A personal guide to Aliens vs. Predator 2.


From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Nov 21 23:06:40 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:06:40 -0500
Subject: Will python binaries compiled on vs.net?
In-Reply-To: <3ddcb049$1@post.ulj.menatepspb.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEKFCOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Alexander Semenov, tries compiling Python w/ VC 7]
> Ok. I just tried to compile python with VC7
> (ftp://ftp.sav.vens.ru/python).
> I used recent cvs snapshot. I follow exactly
> \dist\src\PCbuild\readme.txt.
> Now I've some questions.
>
> 1. All but bsddb compiled without errors.
>    db.1.85.win32.zip compiled ok, but python/bsddb project complains to
>    unknown symbols u_long, u_int etc in db.h I solve problem by copying
>    dist\bsddb\PORT\win32\include\compat.h to dist\bsddb\include
>    Am I right? Why it didnt noted in readme?

CVS isn't stable (by definition), and someone broke bsddb entirely earlier
this week.  It's in the process of getting moved to a newer version of the
Sleepycat software.  You're much better off building from a stable CVS tag.
For example, the 2.2.2 release was tagged r222.  Nobody would *want* a
distribution from a non-stable state.  If you do that, note that the bz2
module didn't exist then, and a different version of Tcl/Tk was in use.

> 2. There are some warnings. Is it normal?

No.  We shoot for a warning-free build under MSVC.

> For examle:
> dist\src\Objects\longobject.c(1252) : warning C4244: '=' : conversion
> from 'stwodigits' to 'digit', possible loss of data
> dist\src\Objects\longobject.c(1271) : warning C4244: '=' : conversion
> from 'stwodigits' to 'digit', possible loss of data

Doesn't happen under MSVC 6; these should get repaired.  Patches on
SourceForge would be appreciated!

> 3. Ok, I compiled it. I've got a bunch of *.lib and *pyd, python[w].exe.
> What's next? How I can make distribution? I saw *.wse scripts for Wise
> Installation System, but it is far from freeware.

Don't ask me -- it's your distribution <wink>.

> I look for some easy used tool or script.

There's a patch on SourceForge with a more fleshed-out Inno Setup script
(more fleshed-out than the python.iss in the PCbuild directory), if you'd
like to pursue that route.

> 4. Help. As far as I can see, it's doesnt possible to build help
> for windows distribution (html) in windows.

I've never done it, and don't know whether it's possible.  Fred builds the
HTML docs on a Linux box, and gives me a tarball to fold into the PLabs
Windows installer.  Note that Doc/tools/ contains prechm.py, which is most
of what's needed to build an HTML Help file from the HTML docs instead; this
is better on Windows, but we never found time to complete it.

> I found win32 port for latex2html, but Makefiles in
> /Doc uses sh scripts, and I didnt realize how I can do it. I
> know about cygwin, but my personal preference is dont use it.

Sorry, can't help you with this.

> I think some of this questions are trivial and it's much simpler
> ask it here and get momental points to my stupidity, and then
> try to dig into complex ones.

There are few simple issues remaining if you want to pursue this.  I hope
you do, though!  The more Python distros built on free tools, the better.




From andreas.ames at tenovis.com  Thu Nov 21 04:56:19 2002
From: andreas.ames at tenovis.com (Andreas Ames)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 10:56:19 +0100
Subject: Howto wait for multiple queues (Queue.py)?
In-Reply-To: <PrPC9.32685$744.1205279@news1.tin.it>
References: <PrPC9.32685$744.1205279@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <87lm3nqm9o.fsf@sinon.fr.de.tenovis.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> ...this doesn't follow -- just make all requests to a thread onto
> a single Queue (tag the requests with 'kind' or whatever as needed)
> and live happily.  A Queue instance *IS* implicitly, automatically
> and intrinsically "synchronized" -- several threads can be reading
> and/or writing to the same Queue instance and you're guaranteed that
> they'll never interfere with each other.  That's just about the
> whole POINT of the Queue class.

Sorry, this confuses me a bit.  If you understood my mail such that I
want to synchronize the access of several threads to one queue, my
mail must have been totally ambiguous.

What I really want to achieve is that several threads can consume
items from several (possibly identical) _sets_ of queues.  As I read
the docs and looked at the source in Queue.py I don't doubt that this
queue implementation is threadsave.

What I don't understand is the reasoning, *why* every thread should
only have exactly one input queue.  This has several disadvantages
from my point of view.  Several threads can't share the same input
queue and I can't distinguish between several input channels within
one thread.  For example in my case the threads should have input
channels for commands and for events (such as command responses or
unsolicited events).  Furthermore there can be different functional
units which write commands and/or events to the same thread.  It is
clear to me that this can be achieved by giving the different
commands/events different types/kinds and use one input queue for all
of them.  But I have at least two reservetions against this:

- The single input queue could be a bottleneck.  If you choose to
  avoid the bottleneck by providing several threads which understand
  the same commands, the producers have to decide about the
  scheduling, i.e. which thread gets which command.

- It seems more intuitive to me to have different input channels for
  different purposes.

This is comparable to the 'select()' function which is widely used.

If you say, there is no good implementation for waiting on several
queues in python, then ok, in this case I admit that using a single
input queue per thread might be the way to go (I'm also not satisfied
by the three alternatives I have enumerated in the original post; I
think I will try alternative 3 for now).


cheers,

andreas



From tim_sleptsov at fromru.com  Wed Nov  6 12:58:56 2002
From: tim_sleptsov at fromru.com (Timofey Sleptsov)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:58:56 +0300
Subject: Python and Tktable
Message-ID: <20021106205856.7de663f9.tim_sleptsov@fromru.com>

Hello All!

I am try to use Tktable library with python, but without any result ;(
For example, i type it:

Python 2.2 (#1, Mar 29 2002, 17:58:00) 
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import Tkinter
>>> root = Tkinter.Tk()
>>> root.tk.eval('package require Tktable')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TclError: couldn't load file "/usr/lib/Tktable2.7/Tktable.so.2.7":
/usr/lib/Tktable2.7/Tktable.so.2.7: undefined symbol: tclStubsPtr
>>> 
And get error message. 

Strange, but TkTable work fine with tcl/tk. Also same situtation i have
with BLT library. What i do wrong?

-- 
Best regards
Timothey Sleptsov


From zeitlin at parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr  Fri Nov 15 07:22:01 2002
From: zeitlin at parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Vadim Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:22:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: wxPython program failing after upgrade
References: <ut5re93g8s0556@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnat9pn9.jsl.zeitlin@parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr>

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:26:49 -0500, Blake Garretson <blakeg at metalink.net> wrote:
> I upgraded to wxPython 2.3.3.1 using the precompiled win32 binary, and now
> my wx program won't work.  (I previously used 2.3.2.1)  I'm using a DC
> client to draw some graphics, and it fails when it goes to refresh the
> screen.  Here's the error that shows up in a popup dialog:
> 
> """
> c:\projects\wx\src\msw\dcclient.cpp(216): assert "wxFalse" failed: wxPaintDC
> may be created only in EVT_PAINT handler!
> Do you want to stop the program?
> """

 The assert tries to tell you that there is an error in your program: it is
using wxPaintDC outside of EVT_PAINT handler which is forbidden. Although it
might work in your case on your platform, there is no warranty that it works
on all of them.

 Simply use wxClientDC instead of wxPaintDC outside of EVT_PAINT.

 Regards,
VZ
--
GCS/GM d? H+ s++:-- p2 au--- a- w+ v C+++ UBLS+++ P- L++ N++ E--- W++++ M? V--
-po+ R++ G`` !tv b+++ D--- e++++ u++ h--- f+ r++ n- y?


From duanek at chorus.net  Thu Nov  7 16:27:01 2002
From: duanek at chorus.net (Duane Kaufman)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 13:27:01 -0800
Subject: Windows COM and Python Objects question
Message-ID: <59023571.0211071327.5cb69e0f@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm a newbie when it comes to COM and Python, so please bear with me
if this question has a simple answer.

I would like to expose Python's wonderful zipfile module capabilities
to the Windows Scripting Host through a COM object. Taking a lead from
Hammond & Robinson's 'Python Programming on Win32' book, I tried to
expand upon the example in Chapter 12, where Python's string module is
exposed.

The problem is, the zipfile module uses _objects_ as return values in
certain cases, requiring the passing of objects _back_ to my Python
COM module to get some types of information (the ZipFile object, for
example), and I don't know how to unpack these (along with their
arguments) and use them.

Any pointers, links, or example code will be appreciated!

Thanks,
Duane


From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 11:19:38 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:19:38 GMT
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it> <3DE49BB7.80D199FB@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <slrnau9sc2.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Jan Decaluwe <jan at jandecaluwe.com> wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
>> 
>> Jan Decaluwe wrote:
>> 
[foo.__add__ treated differently than foo + 4]
>> >
>> > I don't think is can be the intention. Or can it?
>> 
>> Yes it can.  The idea is that operators should rely on special
>> methods defined by the TYPE (class) of the object they're working
>> on, NOT on special methods defined just by the OBJECT itself and
>> not by its class. 
> 
> But what makes operator methods so special that they should be treated
> so differently from ordinary methods?
> 
> As far as I am concerned, operator syntax is just convenience, not 
> concept. The line between operators and ordinary methods is thin
> and arbitrary. 
> 
> For example, take 's.extend(x)', with s a list. The documentation states 
> that it is the same as 's[len(s):len(s)] = x'. Another way to
> do it is 's += x'.
> 
> Yet, if you try it with my example class, the 'extend' would work fine,
> and while the 2 operator-style statements would give a type error.
> What's logical about that?

I would agree with this. I was experimenting with subclassing list the
other day and discovered to my surprise that overriding setitem() and
setslice() had no effect on l.extend(x). This struck me as violating the
Principle of Least Surprise, *especially* since the documentation had
said that l.extend(x) was equivalent to l[len(l):len(l)] = x.

This feels like a wart that needs to be fixed. I don't know what the
right answer will be. Maybe behavior needs to change in some way, or
maybe the documentation needs to be fixed to explain *in detail* what
actually happens when you subclass built-in types. But this has been
bugging me, and I think I want to see it fixed somehow.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Nov 29 10:41:17 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:41:17 -0500
Subject: Parser building in Python
References: <20021129141633.GB29515@k6.in-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3DE78A9D.5040209@rogers.com>

There are a number of parser-generator systems for Python:

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/LanguageParsing

I'm the author of one of them (well, two I suppose, but one (mcf.pars) 
is now long-since obsolete), so any analysis I gave regarding which is 
"best" would be considered suspect ;) .  Feel free to add your own 
analysis to the Wiki if you feel it's appropriate.

HTH,
Mike

ml wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I like to write a parser in Python.  The language itself is
>not LALR(1), but I could do some tricks to make it LALR(1).
>What are the best tools to write lexers and parsers in
>Python?  Maybe sth. similar to ANTLR?
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>
>  
>

-- 
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 13 07:27:25 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:27:25 GMT
Subject: __getattr__ and others
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211121621460.30668-100000@gregpc>
Message-ID: <NyrA9.4092$744.136412@news1.tin.it>

Grzegorz Dostatni wrote:

> I want to create an object that (at runtime) is called with an arbitrary
> function with arbitrary number of arguments.  Haveing this call it will
> forward it through xml-rpc to the server, execute it and return the
> results.
> 
> I am missing something simple - here is what I have:
> 
>     def calling(self, method="", *args, **kwargs):
>         print "calling method ", method
>         print "With arguments", args, kwargs
> 
>     def __getattr__(self, name):
>         return lambda s=self, m=name, *args, **kwargs: apply(s.calling,
> (m, ) + args, kwargs
> 
> This works as expected for (o is the instance of the object)
> 
> 1. o.hello = OK. Returns the lambda function.
> 2. o.hello(keyword="Argument") = OK. that works.
> 3. o.hello(3, keyword="Argument") = This does not work.
> 4. o.hello(3) = This does not work again.
> 
> I have to do something like o.hello(o, "hello", 3) to get what I want.
> Does anyone have an idea how to make it more consistent with normal
> calling style?

I see it has already been pointed out to you that there are problems
with your lambda definition, when called with positional arguments.

The good news is that, in recent versions of Python, you don't need
the "default-arguments hack" to have a nested function know about
local variables of outer functions in which it's nested -- such a
"closure" is now entirely automatic.  Therefore, and without any
need for lambda's and apply's, you could just code:

    def __getattr__(self, name):
        def closure(*args, **kwds):
            return self.calling(name, *args, **kwds)
        return closure

*However* -- take care!  If you code such an unconditional __getattr__,
instances of your class WILL claim they have ANY special method Python
asks about -- consistent with the specification you give about an
*arbitrary* function, but not necessarily with what you really mean.

For example:

>>> class tricky:
...   def calling(self, method, *args, **kwds):
...     print 'calling', method, args, kwds
...   def __getattr__(self, name):
...     def closure(*args, **kwds):
...         return self.calling(name, *args, **kwds)
...     return closure
...
>>> t = tricky()
>>> print t
 calling __str__ () {}
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: __str__ returned non-string (type NoneType)
>>>

t claims it has a special-method __str__ (via that __getattr__, of
course), but it doesn't, really -- tricky.calling is not acceptable
in the role of special-method __str__ because it does not return
a string.  If you're SURE you want to forward special-method calls
to some xml-rpc server, OK -- but in this case the tricky class is
still not fully specs-compliant (it doesn't forward __getattr__,
nor __setattr__ and __delattr__, which are special-cased; nor
does it forward 'calling', because that's its own attribute).  In
the more likely case in which you want to except special-names from
your __getattr__ behavior, make sure its return statement is guarded
by an appropriate conditional, e.g.

    if name.startswith('__') and name.endswith('__'):
        raise AttributeError, name
    return closure

(Raising AttributeError is what __getattr__ must do in order to
communicate "no, I don't have this attribute").


Alex



From nelson at crynwr.com  Mon Nov 18 17:04:17 2002
From: nelson at crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 17:04:17 -0500
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <m2n0o6v8ke.fsf@desk.crynwr.com>

"Gumuz" <gumuz at looze.net> writes:

> i am using wxPython at the moment as my python gui. Coming from a nice IDE
> like Delphi it's really frustrating to get a nice layout together. I tried
> some tools. The one i liked most, because of it's simplicity was wxGlade,
> but still... it's not there yet. I might have missed something here and I
> don't want to complain, but I think that a good, robust gui-designer will
> open up a lot of posibilities for python. i might give it a shot!

gtk, glade, libglade, and pygtk work for me.  http://pygps.org/

-- 
-russ nelson              http://russnelson.com |
Crynwr sells support for free software  | PGPok | it's better to be free
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | than to be correct.
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | +1 315 268 9201 FAX   |


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Nov  3 18:14:09 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 00:14:09 +0100
Subject: Extending distutils ??
References: <XRhx9.375$P35.11936@news2.ulv.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <m3d6pm456m.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Thomas Weholt" <2002 at weholt.org> writes:

> Distutils is great, but adding a few features would make it almost perfect.
> Since we allready got a documentation package in the standard distro why
> can't Distutils generate documentation using pydoc in the process of
> generating a package for distribution? 

All distutils questions have a simple answer: Nobody contributes anything.
You can make a difference (actually, a context diff would do :-)

Regards,
Martin


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Nov  7 16:11:41 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 22:11:41 +0100
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in  Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036694589.11653.python-list@python.org> <aqehf5$27i$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <m3heett78y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> Ok, sorry, does
>      BIT31 = 1L<<31
> work?

Not if you assume the original complaint from Jon Ribbens: If long
literals become an error in some future Python release, this code will
stop working.

Regards,
Martin



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Nov  6 12:08:40 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 18:08:40 +0100
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk> <aqajfv$qqr$1@news.netpower.no> <918bc22f.0211060732.47b2198d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqbifg$6qd$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 6 Nov 2002 07:32:46 -0800, donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter) wrote:

>For entities like PSF that distribute a lot of copies of their
>software, it probably makes sense to write their own specific
>licenses, but for everyone else (like me) it seems to boil down to
>choosing GPL or BSD. Who would have guessed that it could be this

To me it isn't that simple. From my perspective the GPL is using the
same kind of "weapons" to defend it's followers against the "evil"
closed sourcerers.

Using the same kind of weapons as the enemy risks becoming oneself
that what is feared. I think this is meant by "not resisting evil" and
"turning the other cheek" and such ideas as one can find in the old
books.

So the GPL is the enemies weapon turned around and used against the
enemy itself. Just read the legal language inside the document to
proove this.

The BSD is of a somewhat less radical nature in that it is trying to
defend the authors against users trying to legally attack them. It
could be described as a shield. But we know how murky "defense only"
arguments can get.

There also is the option of completely giving away all rights to the
code -placing it in the public domain- which can be compared to having
no defense at all, like "turning the other cheek". This is dangerous
too because although one can give code away, some legal attacks might
succeed in linking the code to the author again and even sue the
author because the users were not properly warned against possible
dangers arising out of using the code.

So to me the license one uses is an indication of what moral level one
is currently acting on. For me this means that although I see that it
is better to not resist evil I am still not wise enough to not step
aside if someone is hitting me, so that means it's BSD for me now, and
sometimes public domain if I am in a philosophical mood.

AV. 

1 Corintians 6:13


From stephen.tubbs at paretopartners.com  Fri Nov  1 15:12:51 2002
From: stephen.tubbs at paretopartners.com (Stephen)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 12:12:51 -0800
Subject: Python 2.1, COM (Excel), and Threads...
References: <24420294.0210311031.18f8b3e0@posting.google.com> <aprvpb$5hm$1@news.tpi.pl> <jxjw9.22695$jE1.73125@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <24420294.0211011212.32ef8e33@posting.google.com>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message news:<jxjw9.22695$jE1.73125 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

Thanks, works like a charm!  This last bit is a little ominous ... 
> 
> Storing a thread-created COM object in your instance (ie, self.excel) is 
> a recipe for disaster, but I haven't time to go there now!
> 
> Mark.

.. Is there a description or example in one of your books?

Stephen


From jadestar at idiom.com  Wed Nov 27 15:01:44 2002
From: jadestar at idiom.com (James T. Dennis)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:01:44 -0000
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1038427304.67233@smirk>

malik m <malik_martin at hotmail.com> wrote:
> hi yea i messed up here's the code sorry about the html too i was
> using it through hotmail while i learnd and still am learning how to
> use newsgroups....

> #chapter 3 test control structures 3.3
> print "hello, this program will tell me how many miles per gallon your
> car drives by the \n amount of miles entered by the user along with
> the size of his/her tank."

 Clearly this is From Deitel(TM)'s _Python:_How_To_Program_ 
 That's a book that spoonfeeds the prospective programmer.  It's not
 held in high regard among Pythonistas.  

 One of my complaints is that the text is pretty unclear (at least in 
 the early chapters) about the nature of Python's exception handling.  
 In several places the Dietel book refers to various conditions which 
 "cause a program to terminate with an error" (or words to that effect).  
 In most books on Python the authors make it clear that exception handling
 is a fundamental control structure in Python.  Thus it should have been
 covered in this chapter. Also all references to abnormal terminations
 from programming or data errors should refer to the specific exception
 that is being raised.

 (That critique is for the rest of the readership: Let me explain for
 you, Malik:  When you make a mistake in Python, such as divide by 
 zero or try to use a string as a number then Python will "raise an 
 exception."  By default exceptions are reported as an error, and 
 the program exits at that point.  When a Python program terminates
 due to an exception, it prints some debugging information called a 
 traceback.  Good books on Python programming explain this in the first
 or second chapter.  When ever you're trying to get help with a python
 script in a newsgroup or on a mailing list, you should post the plain
 text of a *small and relevant* fragment of your code and, if possible
 a capture of the traceback.   (Under UNIX a quick way to capture the
 traceback is to use a command like:  foo.py 2> ~/tmp/foo.err; that is
 redirect 'stderr' to a file).  It's also possible for your program to
 catch specific types of exceptions that you know might be caused by
 specific blocks of your code.  This is perfectly normal under python 
 and should NOT be avoided.  However it should be done carefully, so 
 you don't make your programming errors harder to find).

> #initialize variables
> totalMilesDriven = 0 #total miles driven

> totalGallonsPerTank = 0 #total gallons per tank

> counter = 0 #bogus counter

> #processing phase
> gallonsPerTank = raw_input("Enter how many gallons your tank holds, -1
> to end:")

> gallonsPerTank = int(gallonsPerTank)

 This should be something more like:

 try: 
	gallonsPerTank = int(gallonsPerTank)
 except ValueError:
	gallonsPerTank = -1
	# Take an invalid input as a call to exit.

 ... or (better yet):

 TankSize = "Enter how many gallons your tank holds, -1 to end:"
 while 1:
	gallonsPerTank = raw_input(TankSize)
	try: 
		gallonsPerTank = int(gallonsPerTank)
		break
	except ValueError:
		print "Invalid Response!  Please try again."

 (Actually this code is still a little weak because it will reject
 floating point numbers. But it will have to suffice for pedagogical
 purposes).

> milesDriven = raw_input("enter how many miles driven, -1 to end:")
> milesDriven = int(milesDriven)

 See above.  You have to validate your inputs. 

 Generally it's wise to isolate you input validation code into
 a function.  This allows your main program code to focus on 
 the main task at hand (hiding the details of validation from maintainers
 and readers of that code) and helps reduce the chance that you'll
 duplicate that code in multiple places in your program (as  you've
 done below, within the same prompts and raw_input functions inside
 your while loop).

 Actually it's even better to create a class (object template).  That
 class (or functions within it) would then be responsible for it's own 
 validation.   However, that is probably overkill for such a simple
 exercise.  The question becomes, "who" (which object/class) would be
 responsible for the actual inputs.  I don't like the idea of hiding
 the raw_input() calls inside of an object's initializer.  Of course
 raw_input() is not used much in real Python programming because usually
 some other interface is being implemented (CGI forms processing, GUI, 
 network, file, or database, for some examples).
 
 I'm not going to speculate on an OO design for this exercise.

> while gallonsPerTank or milesDriven != -1:
 
 This looks wrong.  I think you mean to say:

 while gallonsPerTank != -1 and milesDriven != -1:

 ... Because your conditional expression will be short-circuited
 any time gallonsPerTank set bound to *any* value other than a Python
 "false" (numeric zero, empty string, tuple, etc).  In any other case
 (gallonsPerTank is set to any non-zero or non-empty value) then
 the next expression will be evaluated and that result will be returned
 for the expression as a whole.

 So your loop won't exit until gallonsPerTank is 0 (or empty) and
 milesDriven is anything other than -1.

>    averagea = milesDriven / gallonsPerTank

 Most people want floating point (non-integer) results from averages.
 So:

 averagea = float(milesDriven) / gallonsPerTank

 ... will *coerce* (force) the whole expression to return a floating 
 point value.

 Normally I'd complain about your failure to check for gallonsPerTank
 being zero.  Ironically the erroneous while condition actually guards
 against that.  However, when you change the while condition to something
 that expresses your intent, then you could have a case where 
 gallonsPerTank == 0

 You can handle this one of three ways:
	1) use a conditional before the division:

 if gallonsPerTank: 
	 averagea = float(milesDriven) / gallonsPerTank
 else:
	### What?
	import sys
	averagea = sys.maxint
	### You got infinite mileage from "no gas"?

	2) use Python's exeption handling?

 try:
	 averagea = float(milesDriven) / gallonsPerTank
 except ZeroDivisionError: 
	import sys
	averagea = sys.maxint
	### See above about this absurdity.

 ... I think you'll see the problem with both of these approaches.
 You can't have a valid mpg calculation if you had NO gasoline.

 That leaves us with:

	3) treat 0 (zero) as an invalid value for gallonsPerTank.

 (Go back to your gPT input function and change it to something like:

 while 1:
	gallonsPerTank = raw_input(TankSize)
	try: 
		gallonsPerTank = int(gallonsPerTank)
		if gallonsPerTank == 0: 
			print "Can't get any mileage with no gasoline"
			print "... unless you're on a bicycle"
			print "... or in a rowboat ;)"
			continue  
		break
	except ValueError:
		print "Invalid Response!  Please try again."


>    counter = counter + 1
>    print "your miles per gallon are", averagea
>    totalMilesDriven = totalMilesDriven + milesDriven
>    totalGallonsPerTank = totalGallonsPerTank + gallonsPerTank

	Don't you mean just totalGallons or totalGallonsConsumed?

>    gallonsPerTank = raw_input("Enter how many gallons your tank
> holds, -1 to end:")
>    milesDriven = raw_input("enter how many miles driven, -1 to end:")

 See above for my comment on duplicating your input code and thus
 having multiple places where you'd need to maintain any validation
 code.  This is called "cut & paste" programming --- and is a BAD thing.

 Here's sample function for you to use:

 def GetGallonsPerTank(prompt="Enter tank capacity in gallons, -1 to exit"):
    while 1:
       response = raw_input(prompt)
       try:
          r = int(response)
          if r <= 0: 
             print "Are you on a bicycle?"
             continue
          break
       except ValueError: 
          print "Must enter an integer"
    return r		

 ... (untested). 

 If we create another input function for GetMilesDriven() it will
 be almost the same.  That's irritating (more code duplication).
 If the code were *exactly* the same we could use one function for
 both inputs.  If there's enough similarity (and a reasonable assurance
 that the validation requirements for the different variables won't 
 diverge too much in the future, we could encapsulate the differences
 into parameters or help functions and pass those to our common function
 as arguments.

 So we might have:

 def GetValidInput(prompt, validate, errormsg):
    while 1:
       response = raw_input(prompt)
       try:
          return validate(response)
       except ValueError: 
          print errormsg

 ... along with functions for ValidateTankCapacity() and ValidateMileage()
 which might look something like:

 def ValidateTankCapacity(proposed):
	r = int(proposed)
	if r <= 0: raise ValueError
	return r

 ... etc.

 You'd call this with statements like:

   inputPrompt = "Enter Gas Tank Capacity, -1 to exit: ",
   invalidMsg  = "Must enter a whole number!"
   tankCapacity = GetValidInput(prompt, ValidateTankCapacity, invalidMsg)
	
   inputPrompt = "Enter Mileage Driven, -1 to exit: ",
   mileageDriven = GetValidInput(prompt, ValidateTankCapacity, invalidMsg)

 Again, all of this is probably overkill for this exercise.
	

> #termination phase
> if counter != 0:
>    average = float( totalMilesDriven ) / float( totalGallonsPerTank )

 Only need to coerce one of these to a float.

>    print "The total miles per gallon is", average
> else:
>    print "No data entered"

 


From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Sun Nov 17 18:11:31 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 01:11:31 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Get Stdout from external script startet through python
In-Reply-To: <ar5aog$53i$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0211180045510.26523-100000@cens.kybi>

On 16 Nov 2002, Christian Rapp wrote:

> I need to start an external script from inside python. This works just fine.
> The called script produces some output on StandardOut, that I need within
> the python-script. How do I get this Output into python?

As already mentioned by other authors in this thread, os.popen and
its extensions are the answer. Let me add here also commands.getoutput
(and its extensions) as another alternative.

But may I extend the question to extension modules, that is, how to get
the (stdout or stderr) output that originates, say, from a
fprintf(stdout, ...) statement in an Python/C extension module?

This questions has been raised also in f2py-users mailing list where
there was a wish to catch the stdout of a Fortran subroutine, wrapped to
Python. So far I have only an idea that this could be achieved
1) by determining the pty (with os.ttyname(sys.stdout.fileno())) where
these messages go;
2) and then using socket and termios modules to get the Fortran or C
messages.
How to get 2) to work, I haven't figured out yet. But it seems to be 
possible, in principle. For example, ttysnoop does this. 

So, any hints how to do that using Python tools and as an ordinary user
(e.g. ttysnoop requires changes to /etc/inittab but it has other goals..),
would be appreciated.

Pearu





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov 12 22:01:05 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:01:05 -0600
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
In-Reply-To: <E18Bnfi-0000RQ-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <20021112204601.21703.65547.Mailman@mail.python.org> <E18Bnfi-0000RQ-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20021112210104.A2387@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 06:52:02PM -0800, Terry Hancock wrote:
> What would I have to do for this to be a problem? (as it happens, I have used 
> this kind of default before, so I would like to understand the pitfall!)

Mutate the list in the function, as
    def stupid(i, l=[]):
	l.append(i)
	return l

>>> stupid(1, [])
[1]
>>> stupid(1)
[1]
>>> stupid(2, [])
[2]
>>> stupid(2)
[1, 2]

Jeff



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Tue Nov 12 21:52:02 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:52:02 -0800
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
In-Reply-To: <20021112204601.21703.65547.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021112204601.21703.65547.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18Bnfi-0000RQ-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Tuesday 12 November 2002 12:46 pm, python-list-request at python.org wrote:
> If you are collecting pitfalls, here's my least favorite: "never use a 
> mutable object as a default value". A classic example:
> 
> def badfunc(alist=[]):
> ? ?...
> 
> The default value of alist will not stay [] (an empty list) but instead 
> is affected by whatever you pass in for "alist". Very tricky and 
> unpleasant.
> 
> Here's my usual solution:
> def okfunc(alist=None):
> ? ?alist = alist or []
> ? ?...

Hmm. I don't see this:

>>> def spam(eggs, ham=[]):
...     print "%s and %s" % (eggs, ham)
... 
>>> spam('eggs')
eggs and []
>>> spam('eggs', 'ham')
eggs and ham
>>> spam('eggs')
eggs and []
>>> spam('eggs', ham=['more ham'])
eggs and ['more ham']
>>> spam('eggs')
eggs and []
>>> spam('eggs', ham=['more ham'])

What would I have to do for this to be a problem? (as it happens, I have used 
this kind of default before, so I would like to understand the pitfall!)

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Nov 19 00:01:07 2002
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:01:07 -0700
Subject: simple text editor w/ D&D of hyperlinks
Message-ID: <3DD9C593.9080102@mindspring.com>

I want a text editor where I can drag a hyperlink from Mozilla
onto it and have the editor include that URL along with a
hyperlink.  For example, suppose I have just simple text
(no hyperlinks) like this


  -------------------|---------------------
|  [open]  [save]   |  B i U  [Times] [14]
|-----------------------------------------
|  Here are some of the on-line strips I like
|
|    Nukees -
|    Sluggy Freelance -
|      ...

Now I drag the URL 'http://www.nukees.com/' from the
browser to just to the right of "Nukees -".  I want the
result to look like

  -------------------|---------------------
|  [open]  [save]   |  B i U  [Times] [14]       <--- tool bar
|-----------------------------------------
|  Here are some of the on-line strips I like    ]    can edit
|                                                ]     all of
|    Nukees - _http://www.nukees.com/_           ] <-- this text
|    Sluggy Freelance -                          ]
|      ....                                      ]

where the URL for nukees.com is hot linkable, eg, underlined
and in blue (with a change in color during mouse-over), where
I can drag&drop it onto the browser and have it go to
that page, or I can click on it and have a browser
window open to that page (ie, through 'webbrowser.py'
in the standard library).

I can't figure out how to do this in Qt nor in wxWindows.
The only rich text editors for Qt is "QTextEditor" which
will underline links in HTML but won't tell you what was
pressed.  (There's also a QTextBrowser which lets you follow
links but doesn't let you edit.)  In addition, if I insert
a URL manually, as "<a href= ... >" then insert a character
in the middle, the two sides are marked for hypertext but
the part just added wasn't.  Eg, if I add "spam" to the URL
I get

    _http://www.nu_ spam _kees.com/_

with "spam" in black and the rest in underlined blue.

Beyond this, I would like to support importing links to local
files, resolving some URLs as images (rather than just the name
of the link), flagging those links that have changed, pulling
down a mirror of the pages linked to (for off-line reading),
etc., which means fine grained control of how to handle those
hyperlinks.

Yet QTextEditor doesn't really allow for insertion of things like
images into the document ("A more complete API that supports
setting margins, images, etc., is planned for a later Qt release").

Any suggestions on how to do this?  (Besides writing my own
rich text editor with proper key-binding support for X/Mac/Win!)
I'll even try looking at an alternate GUI library -- I tried
wxPython but my task seemed even less likely to be possible.

					Andrew
					dalke at dalkescientific.com



From antonio.p at libero.it  Sun Nov 24 16:33:06 2002
From: antonio.p at libero.it (Antonio.P)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:33:06 GMT
Subject: Python and gd library - Thank to all
References: <HrvD9.42612$744.1519497@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <mAbE9.50069$744.1815000@news1.tin.it>

Thank to all for the aswers.
I looked "python and gl-lib" and not "python +gd" in google so I had not
found so much :-P

The old gd-lib 1.8 can create and manipolate low quality images jpg but the
new gd-lib 2.0 can create and manipulate high quality jpg.

Hi hope to find a python implementation of the new gd-lib... sooner or later
:-)




From TOGLIMIcuni at programmazione.it  Wed Nov  6 15:39:52 2002
From: TOGLIMIcuni at programmazione.it (Antonio Cuni)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:39:52 +0000
Subject: loggin out automatically
References: <1036253358.19897.0@doris.uk.clara.net> <PYgtuoA9YVx9EwVx@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <usdc39rpvohtd5@corp.supernews.com> <3DC718BE.7060706@cyberspace.org> <usea4eqqgbrped@corp.supernews.com> <3DC853DF.6060509@cyberspace.org>
Message-ID: <omubqa.812.ln@anto.cuni.lan>

trewornan wrote:

> I am responsible for maintaining a PC in a hotel which is available for
> use of guests, basically just e-mail and web browsing. We are currently
> using a program called "timewatcher" which allows me to provide "access
> codes" each code providing a particular period of access - 20, 30, 60
> min or whatever

You could use this script as the default shell for guests; it 
automatically kills bash after a fixed amount of time:

import os
import time
import signal

MAX_LOGIN_TIME = 5 # seconds

pid = os.fork()

if pid == 0:
    # the child
    os.execv('/bin/bash', ['/bin/bash'])
else:
    # the parent
    time.sleep(MAX_LOGIN_TIME)
    os.kill(pid, signal.SIGTERM)

Ciao Anto
-- 
"Computer science is not about computers any more than astronomy
is about telescopes." -- EW Dijkstra


From printers at sendme.cz  Fri Nov 29 09:12:47 2002
From: printers at sendme.cz (A)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:12:47 +0100
Subject: Is there a bright future for open software projects?
Message-ID: <3DE783EF.16478.4666187@localhost>

Hi all,
For  some time I am thinking about what firms or  programmers  can afford to develop
open/free software. I myself have been using free programming languages ( Perl and now 
Python) for about 4 years.But it seems to me very difficult to develop free software because 
either I can program only when I have free time and then the development is going very 
slowly or someone must pay for the software anyway because  programmers must also 
earn money to   live  and then why and who should pay for free software?
And my question:
Is it possible to develop open(FREE) software that is  better or at least of same quality like 
paid software?
What companies like ActiveState.com or similar live on if they offer free software?
Best regards and thanks to all who still develop FREE software.
Ladislav






From ebe at offworld.com  Mon Nov 18 12:13:22 2002
From: ebe at offworld.com (ebe)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:13:22 -0000
Subject: Insanely simple problem somehow appears impossible
References: <RdwB9.884$Nb5.250778@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net> <QgxB9.18105$744.647072@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <7d9C9.1654$p_2.164894@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>

Thanks for the reply Alex. I was already using this code and I still had a
problem. I think I have found the solution to the problem and will post the
results here in case someone else wonders what's going on.

I solved the problem by changing the message handler for the window class
from a message map system to a WindowProc function. The reason why
PumpWaitingMessages was stalling was because it seems that windows messages
were not being handled, and therefore never being removed from the message
queue. Consequently the function never returned as there were always
messages waiting.


"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:QgxB9.18105$744.647072 at news1.tin.it...
> ebe wrote:
>
> > I am using the win32 extensions to implement a simple message loop. What
I
> > want to do is respond to messages if they are incoming, but process an
> > application update function if there are no messages.
>
> You can pattern a solution for this based on the code you'll find at:
>
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/82236
>
>
> Alex
>




From python at rcn.com  Sat Nov  9 20:34:58 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:34:58 -0500
Subject: indexed looping, functional replacement?
References: <3fe406f0.0211091037.2795e538@posting.google.com> <9Xcz9.15450$XO.672555@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aqkd4m$qed$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

> > I would like a simpler approach to avoid having to manually maintain
> > an index, maybe functional if possible.
>
> In Python 2.3, the enumerate built-in will do just that:
>
> [alex at lancelot alf]$ python2.3
> Python 2.3a0 (#4, Nov  6 2002, 09:18:17)
> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> for x in enumerate('ciao'): print x
> ...
> (0, 'c')
> (1, 'i')
> (2, 'a')
> (3, 'o')
> >>>

In Python 2.2.2, you can roll your own enumerate:

>>> from __future__ import generators
>>> def enumerate(seq):
    i = 0
    for elem in seq:
        yield (i, elem)
        i += 1

>>> list(enumerate('later dude'))
[(0, 'l'), (1, 'a'), (2, 't'), (3, 'e'), (4, 'r'), (5, ' '), (6, 'd'), (7,
'u'), (8, 'd'), (9, 'e')]


Raymond Hettinger




From anthony at interlink.com.au  Fri Nov  1 08:06:13 2002
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 00:06:13 +1100
Subject: What the heck has happened to PythonWin??? 
In-Reply-To: <slrnas4ujp.sle.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> 
Message-ID: <200211011306.gA1D6EN13136@localhost.localdomain>

>>> Robin Munn wrote
> The way to be a guinea pig is simple:
> 
> 1. Go to http://spambayes.sourceforge.net/
> 2. Follow the CVS instructions to get the most recent code
> 3. Sign up on the spambayes mailing list
> 4. Run around on your hamster^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hguinea-pig wheel!

There's now an 'applications' page on the spambayes web site with
pointers to what you need to do.





From maney at pobox.com  Sat Nov 23 14:24:33 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:24:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>   <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <2259b0e2.0211230554.1cde87bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aroklh$9qu$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Michele Simionato <mis6 at pitt.edu> wrote:
> language, according to different phylosophies. Here it is the solution
> I came out in Python in two seconds of thinking, the "natural"
> solution at this stage of my knowledge of Python:
> 
> def print_OS_evaluation():
>    "Gives a thought evaluation of operating systems"
> 
>    import sys
> 
>    def GoodBox():
>        print "This is a good box"
> 
>    def BadBox():
>        print "This is a bad box"
>   
>    def UnknownBox():
>        print "This is not a box"
>          
>    printEvaluation={
>       'linux2':GoodBox,
>       'sunos5': GoodBox,         
>       'win32':BadBox}.get(sys.platform,UnknownBox)
> 
>    return printEvaluation
> 
> The code is pretty obvious ...

Seems overelaborated to me.  Why in the world invent functions to print
a string?  (of course it is even sillier to invent entire classes to
print a string, but that seems to have been an unstated requirement for
the Java examples: goodness increases with classes, whether sensible or
not?)

def print_OS_evaluation():
    import sys

    osGood = 'a good box'
    osBad = 'not a box'
    osUnknown = 'unknown'

    osEvaluation = {
       'linux2': osGood,
       'sunos5': osGood,         
       'win32':  osbad
    }

    return 'This is %s' % osEvaluation.get(sys.platform, osUnknown)

Or to be really analogous to the Java versions, change 'return' to
'print'.

Is this less extensible than the far more elaborate 'best' Java
version?  My take on it is that that SOO+PS version is certainly the
most over-built, adding layers of complexity that the problem
description certainly doesn't require in order to... well, to what?  It
allows extension, but how is it easier to extend that than the above? 
Why, it requires you to modify two things in two separate files!  It
does allow easier customization of behavior per-OS, but since there's
no need for that, this seems like premature overgeneralization, which
may be the root of most OO programming evil.  :-/

Not that I'm opposed to generalizing a solution in general, but as the
Java examples demonstrate pretty clearly, there is usually a cost
associated.  AndOfCourse those examples did have the unstated
requirement of being "classy" in order to allow the predetermined
hierarchy to be imposed on them.  Which is a complaint I've had with a
large portion of all OO examples that are designed to meet pedagogical
ends without also being required to be sensible.

Remember all those stunningly stupid attempts to shoehorn animals as
classes into a pretty single-inheritance hierarchy of classes?  Pfui!

> Very ugly, but these languages (I refer to the old Basic of the early
> 80's I learned as my first programming language, or Fortran 77 which
> is unfortunately still too much used in the scientific environment)
> don't allow you to do much more than that. You cannot simply *think*
> of another solution.

I thought there were ways to install tables of data in both [fairly]
early Basics as well as FORTRN, but they were both a long time ago and
I may be mixing in memories of improved versions of both (Ratfor,
mostly, in the case of FORTRN).

> On the other hand, was I working in Pascal or C, where "case" and
> "switch" constructs exist, I would have certainly used them. The code
> would have been less ugly, and more adapted to these languages, not
> simply a translation from Basic.

With less excuse, but I follow your thinking.  This problem would
certainly have become an exercise in switch in any C language text.

> When I learned Python I discovered dictionaries and I immediately get
> in love with them; I started using dictionaries from my first
> programs.

I could probbaly tell an anlogous story with a few substitutions. 
"associative arrays" and "AWK" would seem to be the key ones.  :-)

> I want to comment on OOP, too. As a I said in a previous posting, I
> am still in the process of learning OOP. At this state of my
> knowlegde, I tend to think that OOP is a great idea, but sometimes
> overkill and too verbose.

I remain very pleased that I took some time to learn about OOP by
diving into a Smalltalk implementation.  I have always thought that it
was good to be forced to use OO methods, at least for an experienced
procedural programmer, but seeing just how an ideological purity leads
to contrived solutions that just aren't needed in a mixed-mode language
seems more and more relevant these days.

> That's the reason why even if the original
> code in http://csis.pace.edu/~bergin/patterns/ppoop.html used a
> class, I prefer to use a function instead. It seems to me that, for
> simple tasks, functions are still better and easier to grasp.

When there's no reason to invent a class except that the pure OO
language *requires* all functions to be hidden away inside one class or
another...  This is exactly the problem with language purity; I suppose
Lisp would be the poster child for an escape from such problems, but
like you and others who have spoken up here, I have never found it an
approachable one.  Form *is* liberating, at least as long as it manages
not to be excessively restrictive.

Or, as Joel's characters put it, balance is the way...

> Of course objects have their advantages, but if I don't plan to
> inherit from a class doing the job of print_OS_evaluation, why should
> I use a class at all ?

Ah.  Classes are also useful as an organizing principle - they give a
form to the solution that it might not otherwise have, or which anyway
would not be so visible.  A problem whose solution needs one small
lookup table wrapped with very little code behind a single, simple
interface needs little if any such elaboration.  Like any form, classes
can be ill-suited to some problems, so it's good to be able to choose
*not* to use them.

> Functions are shorter and easier to maintain, in my view. Still, the
> biggest issue I have with OOP is a syntactical one: too verbose for
> my taste.

If OOP is too verbose, then either it's being applied where it is not
a good choice - those Java examples fit here - or perhaps the language
manages to support OOP badly.  Or both.



From 2002 at weholt.org  Tue Nov 26 07:55:54 2002
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:55:54 +0100
Subject: Simple SQL-statements into Python classes
Message-ID: <xbKE9.4143$8E1.78023@news4.e.nsc.no>

Has anybody made an attempt at converting simple SQL-statements ( mainly
plain selects ) into Python objects? I'm thinking of trying to make a parser
that takes the most basic version sql-statements (select, insert, update,
delete) and convert them into a python class with methods like load, insert,
save and delete.

If anybody has anything similar or have opinions on this matter, please let
me know.

Best regards,
Thomas




From tismer at tismer.com  Thu Nov  7 13:59:57 2002
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:59:57 +0100
Subject: PySol Windows binaries, anyone?
Message-ID: <3DCAB82D.3060008@tismer.com>

Dear Python Community,

my wife is unhappy. She used to play PySol for years.
Recently, I tried to install the latest version,
but didn't get it to work. Unfortunately, I wiped
the old installation before. :-(

It is known that Markus lost his Windows stuff, there is
no more an installer (no problem), and a couple of
Windows specific functions are missing. That's the problem.

Does somebody have a working PySol for me?
Or maybe one of the last working installers is still
around? I'd also put this on my website for people
to download. Markus seems to be no longer reachable
by email.

As the last resort, I also could write the missing C functions,
but I really hope somebody has them still around. I'm also
not sure what else is missing.

many thanks in advance - chris
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov  9 22:46:02 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 19:46:02 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <3DCD8571.6CACEA04@alcyone.com> <ud6pe48gl.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <3DCDD67A.8B8DEE97@alcyone.com>

Syver Enstad wrote:

> On another note, I think the Smalltalk method call (keyword message
> send)
> syntax is fabulously readable, why haven't anybody picked that up?
> Code like this is marvelously more understandable than the usual
> position based argument list that one uses in Lisp and C.
>
> Ex: 
> 
> aCircle paintOn: aCanvas at: aPoint

Objective-C uses basically this same syntax, albeit surrounded by
brackets.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Can I walk with you / Through your life
\__/ India Arie
    Kepler's laws / http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/kepler/
 A proof of Kepler's laws.


From beyer at incent.com  Sun Nov 10 01:01:45 2002
From: beyer at incent.com (Hugh Beyer)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:01:45 -0500
Subject: PyUnit lacks gravity?
Message-ID: <Uzmz9.610328$nE3.53618@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

I'm trying out PyUnit as a framework for my tests and am finding it tough
going... I'm sorry but it doesn't seem like TSTTCPW to *me*.

Right now I think I'm creating tests correctly and a test suite correctly,
but when I run it with a TextTestRunner instance I get the following dump:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\\Jumanji\\AdSelectorTest.py", line 355, in ?
    unittest.main()
  File "C:\Python21\lib\unittest.py", line 663, in __init__
    self.runTests()
  File "C:\Python21\lib\unittest.py", line 700, in runTests
    result = self.testRunner.run(self.test)
  File "C:\Python21\lib\unittest.py", line 603, in run
    result.printErrors()
  File "C:\Python21\lib\unittest.py", line 568, in printErrors
    self.stream.writeln()
  File "C:\Python21\lib\unittest.py", line 513, in writeln
    self.write('\n') # text-mode streams translate to \r\n if needed
  File "C:\PYTHON21\Tools\idle\PyShell.py", line 676, in write
    self.shell.write(s, self.tags)
  File "C:\PYTHON21\Tools\idle\PyShell.py", line 662, in write
    self.text.mark_gravity("iomark", "right")
AttributeError: 'None' object has no attribute 'mark_gravity'

Last I checked, gravity here was Earth normal. I'm running unitttest.main()
to set up the suite, but I get the same error if I create and run the test
suite myself. Any ideas what's going wrong? This is python2.1 running in
IDLE on a Win2000 system.

Thanks.

    Hugh





From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Sun Nov  3 01:01:56 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 06:01:56 GMT
Subject: Using windll with complex data types
References: <8beb91f5.0211020556.30107507@posting.google.com> <0qxMNUAyh+w9EwJw@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <8beb91f5.0211021858.4739bd5f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oZ2x9.4828$5u4.15910@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Ben C:

> API short int __stdcall GetVersion( VERSION *lpVersion );
> ...
> # If I Feed This Into The Builtin Struct Function
> struct.unpack( 'l', '\x03\x00\x02\x00' )

   Which is likely to mean version 2.0.3 as version numbers often encode
their parts in separate bytes.

> # I End Up With A Nonsense Number
> (131075,)

   == 0x20003

   Neil




From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Wed Nov 20 20:07:55 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:07:55 +0100
Subject: DNS server in python
In-Reply-To: <200211211106.44776.bhards@bigpond.net.au>
References: <200211211106.44776.bhards@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <20021121010755.GB1172@gargamel.ghaering.test>

* Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> [2002-11-21 11:06 +1100]:
> So I'm looking for a DNS server in python, if it is already written.
> [...]

Twisted (http://www.twistedmatrix.com/) claims to support both DNS clients
and servers.

Twisted is an asynchronous framework for writing network clients and
servers. This means you have to build your app around the concept of event
handlers. Judging from the sample code (I've not yet used it in real life),
this isn't more difficult than the simple-minded
create-a-new-thread-for-every-new-connection approach I did for my servers.
But it's quite a different way of writing networked apps that requires
getting used to.

-- Gerhard

PS: I've recently read a related interesting article by one of the folks
behind Twisted - "Threads considered harmful":
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/11/18/22112/860



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 15 12:56:09 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:56:09 -0500
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <ar1buq$1ib4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <m2wunfh1y4.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <ar2bqj$e5a$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <m2of8rgg5j.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <QeicnaqbmcxlrkigXTWcpw@comcast.com>

"Paul Foley" <see at below.invalid> wrote in message
news:m2of8rgg5j.fsf at mycroft.actrix.gen.nz...
> >>>> a = [(1,2,3,4),(5,6,7,8)]
> >>>> zip(zip(a))
> > [(((1, 2, 3, 4),),), (((5, 6, 7, 8),),)]
>
> How did you get that?  I get
>
>   >>> a = [(1,2,3,4),(5,6,7,8)]
>   >>> zip(a)
>   [(1, 2, 3, 4), (5, 6, 7, 8)]

On what system/build?  Cutting and pasting your entered data...

Python 2.2.1 (#34, Apr 15 2002, 09:51:39) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> a = [(1,2,3,4),(5,6,7,8)]
>>> zip(a)
[((1, 2, 3, 4),), ((5, 6, 7, 8),)]
>>> zip(*a)
[(1, 5), (2, 6), (3, 7), (4, 8)]

TJR



>
> and, not surprisingly,
>
>   >>> zip(zip(a))
>   [(1, 2, 3, 4), (5, 6, 7, 8)]
>
> so it works there.  And now
>
>   >>> b = zip(*a)
>   >>> b
>   [(1, 5), (2, 6), (3, 7), (4, 8)]
>
> and
>
>   >>> c = zip(*b)
>   >>> c
>   [(1, 2, 3, 4), (5, 6, 7, 8)]
>
> and
>
>   >>> c == a
>   1
>
>
>
> Oh, I see; I wrote a zip function in my startup file before it was a
> builtin, and I've never taken it out...the builtin version does as
you
> say in the first example (but why?  Looks like a bug, to me!)
>
> --
> Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is
time
> to reform.                                                  -- Mark
Twain
>
> (setq reply-to
>   (concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(#\@)
"actrix.gen.nz>"))




From nikolai.kirsebom.NOJUNK at siemens.no  Wed Nov  6 08:41:41 2002
From: nikolai.kirsebom.NOJUNK at siemens.no (Nikolai Kirsebom)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:41:41 +0100
Subject: RecordSet (ADO) with stored procs
References: <9seiru8fasolrqd9ntpgb0pp0lsl7fr83c@4ax.com> <usmypuo6k.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <iv6isus7j49au1nu16vfs5i4lg1qghoia2@4ax.com>

Yes I'm very interested.  Been away for some time - thats reason for
no response.
Thanks for all response.

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:53:35 GMT, Syver Enstad
<syver-en+usenet at online.no> wrote:

>nikolai.kirsebom.NOJUNK at siemens.no writes:
>
>Replace: 
>> cmd.CommandText = '_GetUserName'
>with:
>cmd.CommandText = '{call _GetUserName(?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?)}'
>
>Replace :
>> cmdCommandType = constants.adCmdStoredProc
>with
>cmdCommandType = constants.adCmdText
>
>If I don't remember wrongly you can then just refresh and assign to
>the in parameters.
>
>By the way:
>I have a pretty complete pure python implementation of the v.2.0
>db-api that is based on ADO. If you are interested, I can fish it out
>from somewhere. It has a pretty complete unit testing suite, so that
>you can see how it is supposed to be used.



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Thu Nov 21 21:03:11 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:03:11 -0800
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Brad Hards fed this fish to the penguins on Thursday 21 November 2002 
02:55 pm:

> 
> The big thing I don't yet really get is OO. I don't see solutions in
> terms of classes yet. In the natural language analogy, this is the
> equivalent of never come across a tonal language (for those not
> familiar, this is very roughly where the meaning (in a denotational
> sense, not just a connotational sense) of a sound varies with how it
> is pronounced - the same sound with a rising frequency might be a
> verb, while a flat frequency might be a noun). No OO is a big hole,
> and while I can program using classes (in C++ and Python) a little
> bit, I don't really "see the solution" in those terms yet.
>
        Unfortunately, OO is not a language specific feature... It is a whole 
philosophy of how to look at a problem.

        While not easily done, one /can/ apply OO to even FORTRAN applications.


        I'll admit I tend to have difficulty applying OO to abstract things 
(like records in a database <G>).

        Much easier to learn by applying to real-world objects. Are you 
familiar with RPN calculators? (mainly because I don't want hassle with 
the ugliness of arithmetic/algebraic/algebraic-with-parens processing).

        The simplest RPN calculator has a 4-entry stack, a display, 10 digit 
buttons, a decimal button, four functions, clear, and an enter button.

        Objects are: button, stack, display.

        Stack object has "methods" "push" and "pop" (with internal data for 
the stack itself)
                push does:
                        shift the stack data
                        save new value
                        display.display(value)
                pop does:
                        str = stack value
                        shift stack data (duplicate top of stack)
                        return str

        Display object has "display" method (do whatever is needed to drive 
display)

        Button object has sub-classes of "digit" (include decimal here for 
simplicity), "operator", "enter", "clear"

        Digit buttons, when pressed perform essentially the following:
                str = stack.pop
                append <button constant digit> to str
                stack.push(str)

        Operator buttons perform:
                str1 = stack.pop
                str2 = stack.pop
                rslt = value(str2) <operator constant> value(str1)
                stack.push(rslt)


        And similar for enter and clear. NOTE: I've not covered the fact that 
a flag is needed in the stack to indicate that the entry is complete 
(which means digit buttons start a new entry, rather than append to 
current entry).


        Or a radio... The basic radio has a tuner and an amplifier. A tuner 
has frequency as a settable parameter, amplifier has volume setting. 
Fancier radios may extend the object with balance, FM/AM, frequency 
band settings, etc.

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From jhsh at maties.sun.ac.za  Wed Nov 27 10:45:41 2002
From: jhsh at maties.sun.ac.za (Jannie Hofmeyr)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 07:45:41 -0800
Subject: Gnuplot on Windows
References: <mailman.1038308377.23482.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f2730b27.0211270745.6ff0ab44@posting.google.com>

Hi

In gp_win32.py:
I have found that just putting the full path in single quotes, e.g.

gnuplot_command = 'c:\program files\wgnuplot\pgnuplot.exe'

does not work (probably because of the space), but that the following works well

gnuplot_command = '"c:\program files\wgnuplot\pgnuplot.exe"'

I am using the newest 1.6 version of gnuplot.py.

There is a Windows binary of Gnuplot 3.8i available in Petr Mikulik's site
http://www.sci.muni.cz/~mikulik/gnuplot/gp38i-Oct05_2002-winbin.zip

Hope this helps
Jannie Hofmeyr



"Paul Simmonds" <psimmo60 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1038308377.23482.python-list at python.org>...
> <problem description snipped>
> >I too had this problem. I had to change the call to pgnuplot to
> >include the full path to the program (rather than having it simply on
> >the path), and got things to work (whoo-Hoo!) using gnuplot 3.8i for
> >Windows (under Win2k).
> 
> Cheers Duane,
> 
> I never put pgnuplot on the path, so I had to put the full path into the 
> program from the start- like this:
> 
> >>>Gnuplot.GnuplotOpts.gnuplot_command='f:\<dirs>\pgnuplot.exe'
> 
> Is this what you mean, or did you have to change the gp_win32.py module? Or 
> is there another option I didn't notice?
> 
> I notice you've got wgnuplot 3.8i, whereas I've got 3.71 . I didn't manage 
> to find a binary for any of the 3.8 versions. Python 2.2.2, Gnuplot-py 1.6.
> 
> >Hope this helps,
> >Duane
> 
> It's good to know someone somewhere is getting this to work.
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul
> 
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* 
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 25 13:56:16 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 10:56:16 -0800
Subject: Uninstalling Python hoses dll -- not
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEBOCPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEBOCPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1038250575.1697.115.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Sun, 2002-11-24 at 08:12, Tim Peters 
> Well, you never know.  Some Windows problems never get solved, and I suppose
> it's possible they're all Python's fault.  Or Notepad's.

I would suspect Notepad as it is well-known that it is tightly bound to
the Windows kernel (purportedly for performance reasons).


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308wrote:

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From removenospam.krzysztof.wasilewski at koti.soon.fi  Tue Nov 12 12:13:36 2002
From: removenospam.krzysztof.wasilewski at koti.soon.fi (Krzysztof Wasilewski)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:13:36 +0100
Subject: Calling methods in embedded python
Message-ID: <aqr9a8$qig$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>

Hi,
I have a problem using objects of embedded python from within C++ code.
It works fine when I just want to call a function from a module:
1) I initialize python
2) I import the module I want to use
3) I get the dictionary of that module
4) From the dictionary I get the function I need using
PyDict_GetItemString()
5) I construct the parameter tuple
6) I execute the function using PyObject_CallObject()

And everything goes smoothly.

I tried a similar approach for calling a method of an object. I tried this
way:
1) I initialize python
2) I import the module I want to use
3) I get the dictionary of that module
4) From that dictionary I get the class I intend to utilise, using
PyDict_GetItemString() passing the name of the class; it appears to work up
to this point, since a valid C++ object seems to be created after this call.
5) Then I try to instantiate an object of this class using PyInstance_New(),
passing the class I created. Unfortunately, this always fails - NULL is
returned. Can anyone explain why? PyInstance_New() isn't too well documented
in the manual:
......................
PyObject* PyInstance_New(PyObject *class, PyObject *arg, PyObject *kw)

Return value: New reference.
Create a new instance of a specific class. The parameters arg and kw are
used as the positional and keyword parameters to the object's constructor
...........................

What should be passed for kw? I tried an empty tuple, an empty list, PyNone
and other things, but in vain. The constructor of the classes I want to use
take either no parameters or a single parameter without a key. What should I
do?

6) Once I get an answer to this one, I plan to call a method of the
instantiated object calling PyObject_CallMethod(). I hope that this is OK.

Thanks,
-Krzysztof




From wks000 at t-online.de  Fri Nov 29 01:22:08 2002
From: wks000 at t-online.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 07:22:08 +0100
Subject: the real .pyc file
References: <mailman.1038246454.8932.python-list@python.org> <3DE45656.AFCBD01B@engcorp.com> <as350j$851$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <cl1euucqtauss2mqebkscv24jek5r6p65f@4ax.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter):

>[1] It's also obfuscated C ;-)

Well, a while ago my employer got acquired, so I used the folllowing
four liner as a signature for a while.

#define print void main(){ printf(
print "signature under construction"
#define pass );}
pass

I'd like to know whether it's doable in less than four lines. :-)

C:\>cl /nologo signature.c
signature.c

C:\>signature
signature under construction
C:\>python signature.c
signature under construction

C:\>
-- 
Thank you for observing all safety precautions


From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov 11 08:23:21 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:23:21 +1100
Subject: writing from file into dictionary
In-Reply-To: <E18BECv-00008e-00@mail.python.org>
References: <186229a7.0211110211.7c639dc@posting.google.com> <200211112315.03489.bhards@bigpond.net.au> <E18BECv-00008e-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <200211120023.21269.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:01, Alex Martelli wrote:
<snip>
> > When used this way, open() or file(), takes a default of opening in read
> > only mode, with unbuffered I/O.
>
> Yes, and no.  Yes, read-only mode (and text-mode too, on platform where
> it matters); but no, unbuffered I/O is not the default -- that would damage
> performance substantially in this default-openiong case.
OK. I was working off the help() text. My newbie-after-midnight brain saw that 
you can specify the mode as unbuffered by assigning the third element to 
zero. I couldn't find the code that implemented it, so I'm not sure what the 
real default is. Have to check tomorrow.
<snip>

> Indeed: only Python 2.2 and later.  In earlier versions, you could use:
>
> for line in open('thefile').readlines():
>
> as long as the file isn't too large to fit all in memory at once
> comfortably. For potentially-huge files in old Python versions, you'd need
> to use less legible and handly idioms, which is why the new one was added
> in 2.2.
Documentation shows a few others (eg xreadlines()?), but I'm really only 
interested in newer versions of python.
<snip>
> > Having got our list of three items, we create a slice consisting of the
> > first two items. This sliced list is then unpacked into two variables -
> > "head" and "rewrite". You could also use:
> > head, rewrite = filter(None, line.split(':',2))
> > but I guess that is less efficient, otherwise Alex would have used it.
>
> That would never occur to me -- there are no specs about skipping
>
> empty pieces; and it would fail just about every time, e.g.:
> >>> line = 'a:b:\n'
> >>> head, rewrite = filter(None, line.split(':',2))
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
<snip>

Not sure what I was thinking about when I came up with this.
I _did_ test it, on a string which didn't have anything trailing the second 
colon.  Someone showed me this for another purpose (splitting up a list of 
domain names, which might be fully-qualified), and "when the only tool you 
have is a hammer..."

Thanks again for your time. I'll get there eventually...

Brad

- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Nov 27 19:58:31 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:58:31 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <20021128000512.T11257@prim.han.de> <mailman.1038439190.14392.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <r0qauuc1uoa8fn2l7beic8tjno735qe9up@4ax.com>

>It's a new keyword.  So, e.g., if you have a variable named "yield", you'll
>have to rename it, or forget moving to 2.3; that's the only kind of breakage
>introduced via yield.  The way people whine about stuff like this, you'd
>think it was real work <wink>.

:)

I still disagree with the decision to not have a defgenerator clause
(or equivalent) however. BDFL pronuncements in the PEP notwithstanding.

For one thing, had yield not been meant to imply generator in the
context of the function in which it is used, yield could have been
executed in the body of a function which perculated that being
yielded to the first appropriate defgenerator in the invocation
stack, somewhat like a limited kind of continuation. To wit:

defgenerator g ():

	f()

def f():

	while 1:

		yield None

x = g()

while x.next():

	something()

Ddon't know about actual _implementation_ mind you, but it struck
me that it would be quite useful if "yield" actually raised something
that was next()able. x = g() would therefore be syntactic sugar for
"except Continuable, c:"

C//



From hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com  Fri Nov  8 10:34:13 2002
From: hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:34:13 GMT
Subject: commands.getoutput from a cgi? -- CANCEL
References: <xqxheesxffn.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <xqxy9845b4a.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

My guy tried the pipe approach again and says it now works.  So no
action needed.  (He'd been at this for a week, with me giving ideas to
try.)  Sorry for wasted bandwidth.


Harry George <hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com> writes:

> We need to run a shell script and get results, all from inside a cgi.
> This works standalone (not in the web server).  It works with python
> (2.2) from a cgi running from apache on Linux.  It does not work in
> python (2.1) on iPlanet on AIX.
> 
> The shell command is of the form:
>   "echo %s | another_script" % mydata
> 
> In the simplest case we are using:
>   "echo hello | sort"
> 
> The error is:
>   ....commands.py", line 55, in getstatusoutput sts = pipe.close()
>   IOError: [Errno 10] No child process
>  
> We've also tried popen, setting the child_stdin to the data in the
> echo and then running the script.  Same error.
> 
> Anything obvious?
> 
> -- 
> harry.g.george at boeing.com
> 6-6M31 Knowledge Management
> Phone: (425) 294-8757

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757


From ark at research.att.com  Mon Nov 18 17:31:35 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:31:35 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <yu99isyujyrc.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Richard> Kind of like we have multiple assignments in a line (oldx,oldy=x,y), what do
Richard> you think of the ability to have multiple tests in an if statement with only
Richard> one == or >=.

It is already possible to do this:

        a, b, c, d = 3, 4, 3, 4
        if (a, b) == (c, d):
                print "Equal"

Richard> This would mean that lines like the following:
Richard> if posx>=coords[0] and posy>=coords[1] and posx<=coords[2] and
Richard> posy<=coords[3]:

Richard> Could be rewritten like so:
Richard> if posx,posy>=coords[0],coords[1] and posx,posy<=coords[2],coords[3]

(a, b) >= (c, d) is already defined, but not in the way you suggest.

You are suggesting that (a, b) >= (c, d) be defined as (a>=c and b>=d),
but under that definition, >= would not be an order relation.

Instead, (a, b) >= (c, d) is defined as (a>c or (a==c and b>=d)).

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 19:27:11 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:27:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Questions about tuple?
In-Reply-To: <3DCC5084.7DD4FEF3@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20021109002711.6291.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey, given a tuple t(a,b), is there any function in
Python that I can get a, b individually from t?
Actually, I have a list whose element is tuples. Say:

tuple_list = [(1,'a'),(3,'b'),(2,'l'),(8,'p')]

Then I want to get two lists from this tuple_list. The
first list contains the first elements in the tuple of
the tuple_list. 

first_list = [1,3,2,8]

And the second list contains all the second elements,
also maintaining the original order as in tuple_list.

second_list = ['a','b','l','p']

So how to get this easily? Thanks!


=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sun Nov  3 20:02:56 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:02:56 -0800
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on OS/390 V2R10
References: <3dc40ef1_1@news.vo.lu> <usa9i1cbjampc6@news.supernews.com> <ducx9.80943$TD1.3668663@news2.tin.it> <pn14qa.9l3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <usbceb82kptla1@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <10h4qa.pd4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

John Roth fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 03 November 2002 
03:37 pm:

> 
> That's actually one of the things I dislike about it. It's a major
> philosophy
> difference: to me, scripting languages are built around the assumption
> that
> the purpose of the script is to issue system commands, and the
> remainder of the language is in a supporting role. It leads to real
> interesting language
> design problems, especially in extensibility and understandability.
>
        Well, consider the history then... REXX was created because Cowlishaw 
didn't like what /was/ available on IBMs of the time -- EXEC2.

        If one considers it that way, REXX is closer to being a UNIX/Linux 
/shell processor/. After all, what is a bash script, but system 
commands wrapped with a form of conditional logic...

--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au  Thu Nov 21 08:55:02 2002
From: patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au (Patrick W)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 00:55:02 +1100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <87u1ib6bte.fsf@key.localdomain> <3u3D9.49382$Yw.2293340@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <874rabdo3t.fsf@key.localdomain>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> > (defclass thing () ())
> > (defclass paper (thing) ())
> > (defclass rock (thing) ())
> > (defclass scissors (thing) ())
> > 
> > (defgeneric beats? (thing thing))
> > (defmethod beats? ((x thing) (y thing)) nil)
> > (defmethod beats? ((x paper) (y rock)) t)
> > (defmethod beats? ((x rock) (y scissors)) t)
> > (defmethod beats? ((x scissors) (y paper)) t)
> 
> Multimethods are indeed very powerful, but it doesn't show "in the small" 
> (quite typical for many very powerful things)

Right.  I only intended to hint at a general concept that isn't widely
known outside of the Lisp and Dylan communities.  It becomes *much*
harder to 'fake' multiple dispatch (multiple polymorphism?) in more
elaborate systems.

I think Lisp's multimethods are a decent example of how macros can
simplify a system in the long run.  To graft support for multimethods
onto most languages would be major surgery -- but in Lisp it's just a
bunch of macros that extend Lisp in Lisp, leaving you with Lisp.

> class thing: pass
> class paper(thing): pass
> class rock(thing): pass
> class scissors(thing): pass
> 
> def beats(x, y):
>     def are(X,Y): return isinstance(x,X) and isinstance(y,Y)
>     return are(paper,rock) or are(rock,scissors) or are(scissors,paper)

Nifty ;-)


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Wed Nov 27 16:14:25 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:14:25 +1100
Subject: python blender newbie
In-Reply-To: <as30vf$c4u$1@naig.caltech.edu>
References: <as30vf$c4u$1@naig.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <200211280814.25537.rjones@ekit-inc.com>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 4:56 am, Richard Muller wrote:
> I'm new to Blender scripting in Python. Can someone point me to a good
> place to get up to speed. I already know about the
> http://www.blender.org and http://www.blender3d.org web sites, and am
> looking for something a bit more Python-centric.

Try the turorial that comes with the python documentation. It's available at 
http://www.python.org/


     Richard




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 17 02:57:17 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:57:17 -0700
Subject: popkey() method for dictionaries?
Message-ID: <ar7i50$3ib$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Hi all,

I've often found myself needing what I've called a popkey() function. Similar 
to the existing popitem() method, but which allows me to specify _which_ item 
I need via a key. This is what I've implemented (as a function), the code is 
trivial:

#----------------------------------------------------------------------------
class NotGiven: pass

def popkey(dct,key,default=NotGiven):
    """Return dct[key] and delete dct[key]. dct is modified in-place.

    If default is given, return it if dct[key] doesn't exist, otherwise raise
    KeyError.  """

    try:
        val = dct[key]
    except KeyError:
        if default is NotGiven:
            raise
        else:
            return default
    else:
        del dct[key]
        return val
#----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do people think that this would be a worthwhile thing to have in the standard 
python dicts (as a method)? Basically I'm asking for opinions on whether it's 
a good/bad idea, and if it's considered good it could be sent to the 
developers. 

It could even be implemented as an extension to the existing popitem() method. 
Currently popitem() doesn't take any arguments, so the above 'key' argument 
could be made optional. 

What do people think? Good/bad? Useless to most?

Cheers,

f.


From carlca at dircon.co.uk  Fri Nov  1 17:56:24 2002
From: carlca at dircon.co.uk (Carl Caulkett)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 22:56:24 +0000
Subject: Python rulez
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210251016050.18065-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru> <mailman.1035540089.3938.python-list@python.org> <3dc1b6c5$1@news.sentex.net> <dJjw9.57511$aL4.1753668@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <f416su46uo81acogmrjt3peg1bkonleffo@4ax.com>

On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 00:16:09 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>
wrote:

>Alessandro's been around a while too, on and off - he's the
>guy whose gentle cajoling finally convinced me to give Python
>a try, back when we were colleagues (so finally y'all know
>who to blame...:-).

So, how big a cut of the royalties from the Nutshell book will
Alessandro get?  

<g,d+r>

-- 
Carl



From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Wed Nov 20 22:28:52 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 04:28:52 +0100
Subject: Checking for nonzero-ness using Python C-API
Message-ID: <20021121032851.GA3442@gargamel.ghaering.test>

How do I check for the nonzero-ness of a PyObject using the Python C-API?

Is it possible at all? Or should I just require that I only get integers which
I can test for nonzero-ness much more easily? ;-)

-- Gerhard



From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Tue Nov 26 04:14:01 2002
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 09:14:01 GMT
Subject: problem with win32com server
Message-ID: <arve0p$rq422$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Hi, I wrote a COM server in python which works well if I use
a python script as client. But if I try Delphi or VBA to 
access the server, I get:

   Unexpected Python Error : exceptions.TypeError: unsubcriptable object

I used py2exe and registred the .exe as COM server.
My server script uses numarray. Is this a known bug ?

Greetings, Uwe.
-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt      Computer science is no more about Computers,
uwe.schmitt at num.uni-sb.de      than astronomy is about telescopes. (Dijkstra)
http://www.procoders.net           


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 18 18:16:22 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:16:22 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3DD974C6.CD626D0A@alcyone.com>

Richard Dillingham wrote:

> Kind of like we have multiple assignments in a line (oldx,oldy=x,y),
> what do
> you think of the ability to have multiple tests in an if statement
> with only
> one == or >=.
> 
> This would mean that lines like the following:
> if posx>=coords[0] and posy>=coords[1] and posx<=coords[2] and
> posy<=coords[3]:
> 
> Could be rewritten like so:
> if posx,posy>=coords[0],coords[1] and posx,posy<=coords[2],coords[3]

The obvious problem is that this syntax already has a meaning in Python,
and it's not what you think.

	a, b == c, d

creates a tuple of length three, the second element of which is the
result of the comparison b == c; that is, it's

	(a, (b == c), d).

Even if you group parentheses to avoid this, you get

	(a, b) == (c, d)

which also already has a meaning; it's a comparison of the tuples, not
the pairwise comparison of the elements.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Who's not sat tense before his own heart's curtain?
\__/ Rainer Maria Rilke
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Thu Nov 28 04:01:29 2002
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:01:29 +0100
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it> <3DE2893A.CCB631D6@jandecaluwe.com> <3DE449BD.1040503@something.invalid> <3DE48ECC.8FC9AE53@jandecaluwe.com> <B8WcnQH5q_B3kXigXTWcoQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3DE5DB69.A7991E73@jandecaluwe.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> "Jan Decaluwe" <jan at jandecaluwe.com> wrote in message
> news:3DE48ECC.8FC9AE53 at jandecaluwe.com...
> > Ok, let me explain better. Suppose - for the sake of the
> > argument - that I have a legitimate need for mutable numbers.
> 
> To me, the concept 'mutable number' doesn't 'compute'  very well.
> 
> A label or pointer that is attached to or points to different
> (eternally existing) numbers at different times (a 'variable') make
> sense, and we have such.
> 
> A container whose number contents change also make sense, and we also
> have that.
> 
> One could regard a count as a (changeable) collection of units, but
> that is similar to the above and can be modeled either with list or
> set/dict.
> 
> So what do you mean by mutable number, such that it could be needed
> but not available today?
> 
> Terry J. Reedy

Too long to explain here - really. I promise I will though (in another
thread, at another time). 

I propose to concentrate on the main point here: whether Python works
as promised or not. At this moment - and with your help - I believe
I can show it doesn't.

Regards, Jan

--
Jan Decaluwe
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com


From rademacher at prostep.FTA-berlin.de  Tue Nov 19 07:11:33 2002
From: rademacher at prostep.FTA-berlin.de (Thomas Rademacher)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:11:33 +0100
Subject: newbie: function-parameter
Message-ID: <ard9mk$hamtu$1@ID-28938.news.dfncis.de>

Hallo,

I wrote a class with a function and I called the function:

class Test:
   def testfunc():
     print 'test in class'

mytest = Test()
mytest.testfunc()

Now I get the error message:
"TypeError: testfunc() takes no arguments (1 given)"

With "def testfunc(x):" my python script works fine.
Why I need the parameter "x"??

Thanks for your hints, Thomas






From benson123456 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  3 20:51:42 2002
From: benson123456 at yahoo.com (Benson Ngai)
Date: 3 Nov 2002 17:51:42 -0800
Subject: Tkinter problem
Message-ID: <369fc45d.0211031751.7ad1276@posting.google.com>

Hi all,
I run into a little problem when I am try to wrtie a Tkinter
interface.
I am trying to have a "About" option on a Menu bar. once the user
click on it. a subwindow will pop up and display a message. and in
this sub windows I wanna have a "OK" Button so when the user click on
it it would close itself. I tried to use the .quit command, it closes
the whole program instead. Is there another command that I can use so
that it just close that 1 sub windows? here is the code!

Thank you very much.

Benson


def PopAboutWin():
  aboutText = "Mastermind ver 1.0 "
  msgWin=Toplevel(root)
  msg=Message(msgWin,text=aboutText)
  okButton=Button(msgWin,text="OK",command=msgWin.quit,justify=CENTER)
  #^^^^^^ Problem on this line^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^######
  msg.pack()
  okButton.pack()


root=Tk()
frame=Frame(root,width=640,height=640)#main Screen

menuBar=Menu(root)#menuBar on top of the screen
fileMenu=Menu(menuBar,tearoff=0)
#fileMenu.add_command(label="File",command=FileMenu)#item in the
menuBar
fileMenu.add_command(label="New Game",command=FileMenu)#ResetTheGame
fileMenu.add_command(label="Exit",command=root.quit)
menuBar.add_cascade(label="File",menu=fileMenu)
menuBar.add_command(label="Help",command=PopHelpWin)
menuBar.add_command(label="About",command=PopAboutWin)
root.config(menu=menuBar)

frame.pack()
root.mainloop()


From susan at provis.com  Fri Nov  8 18:08:29 2002
From: susan at provis.com (Susan Williams)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 15:08:29 -0800
Subject: socket.py and 2.2.1
Message-ID: <d08b86a8.0211081508.38c32924@posting.google.com>

Hello,

We're finally getting around to upgrading from 1.5.2 to 2.2.1... ;-)
and I'm having a problem (Solaris 5.7).

I've got the simple (no SSL) socketmodule in my python, and
when I try to import the socket module I get the following error:

>python
Python 2.2.1 (#6, May 24 2002, 16:38:14) [C] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import socket
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/socket.py", line 47, in ?
    __all__.extend(os._get_exports_list(_socket))
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '_get_exports_list'
>>> 

Yup, the source line is there all right, and socket.py and the os
module seem to be on different planets.  Anyone got a clue what
is hosed up here?

thanks,
susan


From ehagemann at comcast.net  Thu Nov 14 20:37:24 2002
From: ehagemann at comcast.net (eric hagemann)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:37:24 -0500
Subject: Installing dislin (scientific data plotting software)
References: <3DD12A29.8B34ED2C@cs.nott.ac.uk> <3DD3A2EB.FEBF498F@cs.nott.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <07Kdnfl4xr8P0kmgXTWcqA@comcast.com>

Turhan
    I am not a regular user of pythonwin.  My favorite environment is emacs
(its multi platform)  When I wrote that I had it running I was indicating
that it was running versus not -- which seemed to be the point of your
original post.  I just tested a small app and found that I have the same
issue as you -- atleast when you send the output to a window.  If you route
the plot to a file (say a png) it works fine.
    I would say that my guess is that its  not as much an issue with dislin
as much as its an issue with pythonwin.  My guess is that dislin and
pythonwin are arguing over who's in charge (both are windows apps) and
pythonwin runs python as a "sub process" (Atleast my task manager does not
show a seperate python running when pythonwin runs).  I also tried the app
in komodo and have the same results (works to a file, not to a window)
    Apologies for the confusion
Cheers
Eric



"Turhan Ozen" <txo at cs.nott.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3DD3A2EB.FEBF498F at cs.nott.ac.uk...
> I tried both Dennis's and Kaleb's advise, but I am afraid dislin still has
some internal problem in the readme.exe file. It wouldn't work. But Eric's
advise has worked. You can't uninstall dislin. So I just deleted the present
dislin folder (c:\program files\dislin). And reinstalled in the default
folder. But I couldn't import it into python afterwards. So don't forget to
restart your computer in order to get dislin recognised by python.
>
> But Eric how did you get it work with pythonwin? As marco has experienced
too I still can  use it with only IDLE.
>
> Turhan
>





From morris_r at 4j.lane.edu  Thu Nov 14 16:59:41 2002
From: morris_r at 4j.lane.edu (Roger)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:59:41 -0800
Subject: update tkinter window
Message-ID: <20021114215941.GA8100@4j.lane.edu>

I've been messing with tkinter a little.
I was trying to just come up with a window that would show the current 
time.
stealing some code from examples, I came up with:

#!/usr/bin/python
from time import localtime,strftime
from Tkinter import *
eugtime=""
class myclock(Frame):
   def update_stats(self):
      eugtime=strftime("%H:%M:%S",localtime())
      self.entry=Entry()
      self.entry.pack()
      self.contents=StringVar()
      self.contents.set(eugtime)
      self.entry["textvariable"]=self.contents
      self.after(1000,self.update_stats)
      
   def __init__(self,msecs=1000):
      Frame.__init__(self)
      self.msecs=msecs
      self.pack()
      self.after(1000,self.update_stats)
myclock(msecs=1000).mainloop()

------------------------------------------------------------
the problem is the window keeps adding a new time making the window ever 
increasing in size.  
How do I update the window so the contents (the time) get updated rather 
than just display the new time?

Thanks
-- 
Roger 
morris_r at 4j.lane.edu




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Nov 19 04:28:43 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 03:28:43 -0600
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <E18E3Rt-0001rG-00@tswings.swing.cluster> (tanzer@swing.co.at's
 message of "Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:09:33 +0100")
References: <E18E3Rt-0001rG-00@tswings.swing.cluster>
Message-ID: <m2smxxaoxg.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Christian" == Christian Tanzer <tanzer at swing.co.at> writes:

    Christian> Time machine? python.org only has 4.6.

CVS -
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/python/dist/src/Misc/python-mode.el  

Now at v4.28.

The one feature I'm unhappy with in python mode is text wrapping

If you have

  class counting_dict(dict):
      """A specialized dictionary for counting.  This help string goes on and on and on"""
      def __call__(self, key):
        key = key.strip()	
        self[ key ] = self.get( key , 0 ) + 1 


and execute fill-paragraph in the help string, it returns

  class counting_dict(dict): """A specialized dictionary for counting.
      This help string goes on and on and on""" def __call__(self, key):
      key = key.strip() self[ key ] = self.get( key , 0 ) + 1

rather than something like

  class counting_dict(dict):
      """A specialized dictionary for counting.  This help string goes
      on and on and on"""
      def __call__(self, key):
        key = key.strip()	
        self[ key ] = self.get( key , 0 ) + 1 


Ditto for comments, filling the comment string in 

  # xreadlines will split the file by newlines.  votes is now a list of favorite ice creams.
  votes = file('votes.dat').xreadlines()

gives 

  # xreadlines will split the file by newlines.  votes is now a list of
  favorite ice creams.  votes = file('votes.dat').xreadlines()
 
when it should give

  # xreadlines will split the file by newlines.  votes is now a list of
  # favorite ice creams.
  votes = file('votes.dat').xreadlines()

Is there a function in python-mode that I should be using for this?
or is on the todo wish list?  matlab-mode actually gets this right (at
least for '%' comments), so some enterprising individual could go lift
that code....

John Hunter



From smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org  Mon Nov  4 12:16:37 2002
From: smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org (Jacob Smullyan)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 12:16:37 -0500
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
References: <mailman.1036428729.6238.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasdarg.sn4.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>

In article <mailman.1036428729.6238.python-list at python.org>, Brian Quinlan wrote:
> That's cool code. I wonder why system.listMethods is missing.

It isn't missing, actually; your eyeballs must have veered off course
for a moment.

> I'm also not sure what system.methodSignature is doing since it seems
> unimplementable in Python due to the lack of type information.

Method signatures don't have to include type information.  The number
and name of arguments is a signature, too. 



From gkrause at psipenta.com  Mon Nov  4 06:07:12 2002
From: gkrause at psipenta.com (Gernot Krause)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:07:12 +0100
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on AIX 4.3.3 / AIX 5.1
References: <3dc40e9c_2@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <aq5j8o$t7i$1@innferno.news.tiscali.de>

Hi,
> has anyone ported Python to the big blue Unix system?
yes, i have ported python 2.2.1b to AIX 4.3.3 (S80) successfully.

Gernot




From max at alcyone.com  Sun Nov 24 18:40:36 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:40:36 -0800
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <mailman.1037993694.2261.python-list@python.org> <arm9oa$but$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <6qyD9.60432$Yw.2729711@news2.tin.it> <armdko$jgb$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <KsLD9.44802$744.1610007@news1.tin.it> <arrhh6$hur$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <d9dE9.68529$Yw.3238316@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DE16374.7C3FB191@alcyone.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> I
> think (not sure) that the first Prolog interpreter was coded in Lisp,
> presumably with similar intentions.

I know that the first incarnations of Prolog had a Lisp-like syntax; I
don't know offhand if they were actually implemented in Lisp, though. 
(Eventually the Edinburgh syntax won out; I remember picking up a
microProlog book at a used technical bookstore which talked about the
archaic syntax and was intrigued, when I asked about it was, ahem,
politely informed that that variant had gone the way of the dodo.)


-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Suffering is a journey which has an end.
\__/ Matthew Fox
    Fauxident / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/fauxident/
 A "faux" ident daemon in Python


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Nov 22 15:20:20 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:20:20 -0800
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
In-Reply-To: <20021122181601.339.3118.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021122181601.339.3118.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18FKKK-0002yO-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

> Dave Brueck wrote:
> >?On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Eric Brunel wrote:
> >?> So I told myself: wouldn't it be great if max(None, x) or min(None, x) 
> >?> always simply returned x? So I could just write:
> >?> In addition, today, min(None, x) and max(None, x) work, but have 
strange 
> >?> results: as far as I can see, min(None, x) is always None and max(None, 
x) 
> >?> is always x, but this behaviour isn't documented.

> >?Sure! Write two functions, and put them in your sitecustomize.py file. No 
> >?PEPs to write, no patches to submit, no battles to win, and you get all 
> >?the functionality you want _today_.

The thing wanted is pretty easy to achieve. You want to throw out the bad 
data, (represented by None), which is a filtering operation (here I use list 
comps instead of filter(), but either would work):

>>> def Max(*seq):
...     return max([e for e in seq if e is not None])
... 
>>> Max(None, y)
1
>>> def Min(*seq):
...     return min([e for e in seq if e is not None])
... 
>>> Min(None, y)
1

This is particularly handy, since depending on the application, "bad data" 
might be represented by a number of different symbols other than None (though 
None is arguably the "right" one to use).

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From claird at lairds.com  Wed Nov 13 09:53:49 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:53:49 -0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DD11E7F.C12E708A@man.ac.uk> <3DD16F04.517E6720@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ut4prtnorjgq87@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3DD16F04.517E6720 at earthlink.net>,
Benjamin Goldberg  <goldbb2 at earthlink.net> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Hmm, is there a way of making tcl dump the tcl-bytecodes to a file?
			.
			.
			.
There are at least a couple, but neither is particularly
handy, at this point; most common is to install TclPro
Compiler and let it do the work.  The other is to rebuild
a standard source distribution with a debugging flag 
enabled, then set a run-time flag to report on byte-code
flow.  Neither is as inviting at the corresponding ability
in, for example, Python.

I hope I'm wrong about this, that there's an easier way, 
and that someone will correct me.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Nov 14 19:13:50 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:13:50 +1100
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A747@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

[python code with timings ommitted]

The above is a completely different situation - it is a case of inlining
code directly.

An 'inline function' in C++ is declared with the 'inline' keyword, and
(normally) is placed in the header file. It is also normally a class method
(although doesn't have to be).

It is simply a *hint* to the compiler that the programmer thinks this
function should be inlined. It can be ignored.

The major problem with 'inline' is that it mixes up the code with the
declarations. Whilst this is not an issue in Python (since there are no
separate declarations) it tends to cause an unholy mess in C++ header files
- instead of being able to say "the interface is defined in the .h file, and
the implementation is in the .cpp file" you now have a mix of "the interface
and some of the implementation is in the .h file, and the rest of the
implementation is in the .cpp file". This causes a mess, breaks
encapsulation, etc ...

For some things in C++, inlining is required (in particular, some things to
do with templates). IMO it's not worth the mess to use those features -
avoid them and keep the interface and implementation completely separate in
C++.

In real-world performance, using the 'inline' hint in C++ is usually
worthless. If you have an optimising compiler, it will tend to ignore your
hint, and determine for itself what should be inlined (and it's usually a
better guesser than you are). If you *don't* have an optimising compiler,
then usually one of two things will occur: the compiler will blindly obey
all your 'inline' hints, usually leading to code bloat and optimisation of
things that don't need to be, or will blindly ignore all your 'inline' hints
and will inline nothing.

I've seen lots of code which 'inline'd things all over the place ... and
then used the STL in performance-critical sections.

It comes down to the two rules of optimisation (Knuth? Jackson?):

1. Don't do it.
2. (For experts only) Don't do it yet.

Tim Delaney



From sdati at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  5 11:29:47 2002
From: sdati at hotmail.com (Steve Davis)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 08:29:47 -0800
Subject: Tkinter / Tcl callbacks, and return -code error
Message-ID: <1527bafc.0211050829.1ba81bb1@posting.google.com>

I am working with a package written in C and Tcl/Tk, with python
bindings.  It allows me to set up some callback functions, which
notify progress of long-running calculation, and can also cancel these
calculations.  I have the callbacks calling python functions, (using
Tkinter "register()" function), but I can't figure out how to cancel
the calculations.

To cancel the calculations from Tcl, one is supposed to "return -code
error".  Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a python mechanism to
do this.  The closest I've come is by making a python object with no
string representation, and returning that object.  This approach goes
too far, though - I get:

Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread
Aborted

It doesn't seem like my approach should kill the python interpreter,
but I may be misunderstanding something.

If it's relevant, I'm using the "snack" audio package
(http://www.speech.kth.se/snack), and the "progress" callback
functions available with various sound manipulations.

So, is there a way to do the equivalent of the Tcl "return -code
error" from within python?  If not, is there some workaround?


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Nov 14 06:17:56 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:17:56 GMT
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list@python.org> <aqvmb3$v6h$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <EDLA9.27101$eX.71749@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

David Brown:

> As long as C(++) compilers
> still generate seperate completed object code modules that are only
> collected by a linker, then you are going to get a performance hit
whenever
> a small function from one module is used by a function in another module.

   Current compilers are able to inline across compilation units. See, for
example,
http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/02/05/Hood/default.aspx
   although IIRC other compilers beat MSVC to this particular optimization.

   Neil




From dan at cox.com  Wed Nov 27 13:08:58 2002
From: dan at cox.com (Dan)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:08:58 GMT
Subject: *args and **kwargs
References: <uLUE9.5581$kz4.355569@news2.west.cox.net> <87d6orq0oz.fsf@uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <_S7F9.14648$kz4.657484@news2.west.cox.net>

thanks for the answer specifically for "args".  Still I don't quite
understand the Python syntax.

*something = encapsulate into a set   ??
**something = encapsulate into a Dictionary??

dan




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Nov 18 18:37:39 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 00:37:39 +0100
Subject: python lists?
References: <arbqs1$npd$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <m34raeh2kc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

strombrg at tesuji.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg) writes:

> So are python lists real lists in the algorithmic sense, or something
> more?  

No. Python lists are real arrays, or real vectors, depending on your
terminology.

> I just saw a binary search of a python list using the bisect
> module, but it seems to me that should be something less than log2(n)
> on a traditional linked list.  

Notice that you qualify this as "linked" list here :-) The term "list"
in itself doesn't really universally describe an implementation
strategy.

> Just what are python lists?  And is it an implementation detail I'm
> supposed to ignore for most purposes?

I don't think there are any complexity guarantees in the language
definition, but all existing implementations of Python guarantee O(1)
access by index. Complexity of appending to a list varies by Python
version (it used to be O(n*n), worst case, but that is no longer
true). Complexity of deleting an item is O(n).

So, while you should not worry to much about this, it helps to know
that lists are implemented as contiguous fields of pointers
internally.

Regards,
Martin


From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Nov 26 18:20:25 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 23:20:25 GMT
Subject: Making termios.tcdrain() work with threads?
References: <3de3c3ad$0$22225$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <as0joa$1jsc$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <3de3de67$0$4464$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <as0vjp$8c2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards):
...
| OK, the change is simple enough:
|
|     Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
|     s = tcdrain(fd);
|     Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
|        if (s == -1)
|            return PyErr_SetFromErrno(TermiosError);
|
|
| [similar thing done in the other 5 methods]
|
| It works just peachy now.
|
| But, before I submit a patch, I've noticed that TermiosError is
| a single, static object (file scope):
|
|     static PyObject *TermiosError;
|
| Is this going to cause problems if multiple threads have to
| return errors from the termios methods?

Don't think so!

PyEND_ALLOW_THREADS waits for the interpreter lock, so there's only
one thread at a time past that point.  PyErr_SetFromErrno should tuck
that data into the thread specific state before control gets to the
ceval loop where another thread could take over.  And I wouldn't think
you'd be modifying TermiosError anyway.

As long as 's' is automatic (stack/register) storage, you're fine.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From kishoreb8 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 12 00:21:04 2002
From: kishoreb8 at hotmail.com (kk)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 21:21:04 -0800
Subject: Running python on windows.
Message-ID: <8b58f27c.0211112121.36e0de25@posting.google.com>

Hi 
 I am new to python, tried to run python at >>> prompt its giving
syntax error.Any one help me to run python scripts on windows.

bye
kk


From djmitchell at NOSPAM.optushome.com.au  Wed Nov 27 15:00:00 2002
From: djmitchell at NOSPAM.optushome.com.au (David Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 07:00:00 +1100
Subject: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
References: <3DE4448E.5080201@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.27.20.00.00.396116@NOSPAM.optushome.com.au>

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:05:34 +0000, Pierre Rouleau wrote:

(snip)
> 
> What I'd like to be able to do is implement a complete GUI-based control 
> application (with buttons, slider, whatever widgets the app needs) 
> accessible over the web.
> 
> Is this possble with Python?  If so, where the best place to start looking?

I'm looking for exactly the same thing.  I know Perl has the
CGI::Widget::* modules which do pretty much exactly this, but I don't want
to use Perl for this particular project.

Regards

Dave Mitchell


From ubecher at gmx.de  Thu Nov 14 13:43:18 2002
From: ubecher at gmx.de (Uwe Becher)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:43:18 +0100
Subject: Local drives on Win32 with win32api
References: <3DD2A357.4000308@gmx.de> <8xAA9.24562$eX.64575@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3DD3EEC6.4050206@gmx.de>

Yes ... I missed the point.

Thanks, it works

Uwe

Mark Hammond wrote:
> Uwe Becher wrote:
> 
>> Hi.
>>
>> I'm trying to get information about local drives on a win32 box. Using 
>> win32api.GetLogicalDriveStrings() and win32api.GetDiskFreeSpace(drive) 
>> works nearly perfect - except: I get all the network drives mapped to 
>> a drive letter too!
>>
>> Is there a way to get information, if a drive is local or remote?
>> May be I missed the point reading the documentation.
>>
> 
> win32file.GetDriveType()
> 
> Mark.
> 



From mb at bese.it  Tue Nov 12 11:43:49 2002
From: mb at bese.it (Marco Baringer)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 17:43:49 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqjr09$qbg$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <slrnasr9v1.267f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <tyfof8x1rkf.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <aqmqma$nsd$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <tyfvg34zeku.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1037052618.20223.python-list@python.org> <aqpf2i$7i9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <mailman.1037062037.18153.python-list@python.org> <m2k7jj5d9t.fsf@bese.it> <7h37kfi3mjh.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m2of8ukabe.fsf@bese.it>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> This is a matter of printed representations.  OpenMCL is lying
> (slightly) to you.
> 
> Cheers,
> M.

my bad.

-- 
-Marco
Ring the bells that still can ring.
Forget your perfect offering.
There is a crack in everything.
That's how the light gets in.
     -Leonard Cohen


From mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Thu Nov  7 10:07:28 2002
From: mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Matthias Huening)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 15:07:28 GMT
Subject: where could we find PMW package ?
References: <mailman.1036680791.24911.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns92BFA41B48A03mhueningzedatfuberli@130.133.1.4>

black <blackprogramming at yahoo.com> wrote in
news:mailman.1036680791.24911.python-list at python.org: 

> 
> Howdy~
> 
> I'm practice Tkinter these days and my book told me PMW provided many
> nicely  GUI components, I checked python.org but find nothing, where
> is it ??? 

It's here:
http://pmw.sourceforge.net/

Matthias


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Thu Nov 21 11:13:48 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:13:48 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037846248.22487.python-list@python.org> <m2bs4jc8jl.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <tZ5D9.36447$744.1329828@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DDD0699.5080007@nyc.rr.com>


Alex Martelli wrote:
> Paul Foley wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:36:24 +0800, Maptek  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Even if Python and Ruby have or will have the _capabilities_ that Lisp
>>>has, (Python (will (never (be (lisp))))).
>>
>>Then it'll never have the _capabilities_ that Lisp has; because the
>>syntax is the major source of those _capabilities_ that distinguish
>>Lisp from lesser languages.
> 
> 
> It seems to me that Dylan is a creditable attempt to deny this assertion -- 
> Dylan has no lisp-oid syntax, yet Dylan's capabilities do appear to be 
> quite similar to Lisp's at least at the level of approximation that "major 
> source" would seem to entail.

Pardon the hearsay, but more knowledgable CL folks than I, when this 
comes up, always say the sexpr notation is vital to CL. Macros, I think, 
are one example. But don't hold me to that. Code as data? Something like 
that.

Mind you, Dylan /does/ capture much of CL, so you are not far off.



-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 19 15:56:45 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 20:56:45 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
Message-ID: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

I'm trying to figure out how WaitCommEvent() works in Python,
and it looks like there's a problem when it's used in
overlapped mode.

My understanding is that (in C) you:

 1) Call WaitCommEvent() and give it three parameters:
     * File handle
     * a pointer to where the output mask value is to be stored
     * a pointer to an overlapped struct
    
 2) WaitCommEvent() returns immediately.

 3) Call one of the WaitXXX() functions to wait on the event in
    the overloapped struct.

 4) When the event is triggered WaitXXX() returns. Check the
    value stored via the output mask pointer passed in 1)
    above.

[I've gleaned most of this from
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/devio/base/waitcommevent.asp]


What I can't figure out: How is this supposed to work in Python?

     1	/* File : win32file.i */
[...]     
  2089 static PyObject *MyWaitCommEvent(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
  2090 {
  2091     PyObject *obHandle, *obOverlapped = Py_None;
  2092     if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O|O", 
  2093             &obHandle, // @pyparm <o PyHANDLE>|handle||The handle to the communications device.
  2094             &obOverlapped))// @pyparm <o PyOVERLAPPED>|overlapped||This structure is required if hFile was opened with FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED. 
  2095             // <nl>If hFile was opened with FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED, the lpOverlapped parameter must not be NULL. It must point to a valid OVERLAPPED structure. If hFile was opened with FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED and lpOverlapped is NULL, the function can incorrectly report that the operation is complete. 
  2096             // <nl>If hFile was opened with FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED and lpOverlapped is not NULL, WaitCommEvent is performed as an overlapped operation. In this case, the OVERLAPPED structure must contain a handle to a manual-reset event object (created by using the CreateEvent function). 
  2097             // <nl>If hFile was not opened with FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED, WaitCommEvent does not return until one of the specified events or an error occurs. 
  2098         return NULL;
  2099     HANDLE handle;
  2100     if (!PyWinObject_AsHANDLE(obHandle, &handle, FALSE))
  2101         return NULL;
  2102     OVERLAPPED *poverlapped;
  2103     if (!PyWinObject_AsOVERLAPPED(obOverlapped, &poverlapped, TRUE))
  2104         return NULL;
  2105     DWORD mask;
  2106     BOOL ok;
  2107     Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
  2108     ok = WaitCommEvent(handle, &mask, poverlapped);
  2109     Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
  2110     DWORD rc = ok ? 0 : GetLastError();
  2111     if (rc!=0 && rc != ERROR_IO_PENDING)
  2112         return PyWin_SetAPIError("WaitCommError", rc);
  2113     return Py_BuildValue("ll", rc, mask);
  2114 }

I've been looking at the sources above, and the output mask
pointer passed in 1) points to a _local_ DWORD variable [lines
2105, 2108].  Right?

When used in overlapped mode, WaitCommEvent returns before the
event has happened (and therefore before the output mask value
has been written). What happens when the event actually occurs
[between 3) and 4) above] and Win32 writes the output mask
value?  The mask pointer which Win32 has stashed away from the
call at 1) is no longer valid.  I think.  Maybe.

How _do_ you get the output mask value in overlapped mode in
Python?   

In C, you do it by passing a mask pointer that points to a
variable whose lifetime extends past the point in time when the
event actually happens and the WaitXXX() call returns [and then
you check the output mask value].

Disclaimer: I'm a Unix guy and find the Win32 stuff to be
            overly complex and baroque. Perhaps I haven't
            understood the MSDN docs and the example C code
            I've seen. If so, I'd be eternally grateful if you
            could point me to decent docs for the Win32 serial
            port API.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Now KEN and BARBIE
                                  at               are PERMANENTLY ADDICTED to
                               visi.com            MIND-ALTERING DRUGS...


From p.nilsson at xtra.co.nz  Mon Nov 25 04:09:26 2002
From: p.nilsson at xtra.co.nz (Paul Nilsson)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:09:26 +0100
Subject: sockets and encryption
References: <8hi2uuguh0l0jlmrao1fjshle68op1kt4s@4ax.com> <mailman.1038191676.26279.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lip3uu0r7u1l2v0rpv1v1n9klh7me7m5l3@4ax.com>

On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:52:06 -0800 (PST), an infinite amount of
monkeys hijacked the computer of Dave Brueck
<dave at pythonapocrypha.com> and wrote:

>Not necessarily - you can create your own certificate authority and have 
>it issue a certificate for you. On the client side there's a one-line API 
>call to allow certificates from non-authoritative sources.

Hmmm, but the software I'm creating will allow multiple clients and
servers, the servers would have no interaction with each other and
therefore no certificate authority. I suppose I could make every
server into an authority however this is probably no easier than
throwing the code together with pycrypto.

>Not sure what you mean here - it's just a stream of bytes so there's no 
>concept of ASCII or non-ASCII.

The only context I've heard ssl used in (although I'm sure it's used
in a lot of other cases) is people transering *ML code accross the
internet.Since HTML is ascii and XML is unicode I thought this may put
some limitations on what raw data could be sent. I had suspected that
SSL incorporated a unicode layer which could cause problems if I
wanted to send raw bytes (or I would have to converrt them to CDATA).

>Yup. You have complete flexibility to do whatever suits you best, but 
>obviously you'll have to do at least a _tiny_ bit more work to add in 
>security - in this case it's mostly just setup work.
>
>I've been using M2Crypto and have found that it works pretty well for my 
>needs. I spent about half an hour reading through the docs and setting up, 
>and another half hour taking a part one of the examples and wrapping the 
>weird stuff in a module so I don't have to think about it anymore. A one 
>hour investment for basic SSL support is IMO terrific! :)

It sure isn't the clearest module I've used, however it sure beats
doing the work myself :)

Cheers, Paul


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Sat Nov  9 16:47:14 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 21:47:14 GMT
Subject: Odd problem with Wing IDE & PythonForDelphi extensions
References: <4cce07d5.0211090738.370f3c2c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Cnfz9.4745$eX.11631@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

animeshk:

> "Error: The debug connection closed unexpectedly while waiting for
> reply type 0x1011 after message type 0x70001:
> Runtime failure details:
> Exception: socket.error
> Value = (10054, 'winsock error')
>
> Of course, I'm not using winsock at all.

    I can't help much but can explain it a bit. Wing IDE runs programs being
debugged in a separate process and uses sockets to talk to a debugger stub
in the process. PythonWin runs programs in its own process and so does not
use sockets for debugging. In general the separate process approach is
better as you get a clean environment for every run whereas PythonWin often
retains remnants from previous program runs.

> I realize that this isn't enough information: if anyone would like the
> source for the DLL, for testing, let me know.
>
> Does anyone know what this might mean?  Is this a Wing IDE bug?

   Wing IDE has a support forum at
http://wingide.com/support/forum
   and an alarmingly large amount of debugger documentation at
http://wingide.com/psupport/wingide-1.1/node7.html

   Neil




From malik_martin at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 27 16:16:19 2002
From: malik_martin at hotmail.com (malik m)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:16:19 GMT
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <mailman.1038414274.6010.python-list@python.org> <slrnauaif6.1gv.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <vs7auu07opjlv8enekpde94kfo241tnr5a@4ax.com> <mailman.1038429579.8127.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5ddauu0k5mffu8kfmrto430d0inhonn8bu@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:38:34 -0600, John Hunter
<jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>>>>>> "malik" == malik m <malik_martin at hotmail.com> writes:
>
>    malik> i didnt to import that yet but i will try even tho i think
>    malik> the program did what i want it to:)
>
>What do you think your mpg is if you drive 3 miles on a tank that
>holds 2 gallons?  What does your program tell you it is .....
>
>John Hunter


hmm yea i see what you're saying... ok i'll put it in.


From pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Nov 29 13:22:14 2002
From: pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:22:14 +0100
Subject: Name of current method
References: <pan.2002.11.28.20.26.03.172820.727@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.29.19.22.13.946159.725@thomas-guettler.de>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:26:03 +0100, Thomas Guettler wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> How can I get the name of the method which is executed?
> 
> Example:
> 
> def mymethod(self):
> 	print self.__magic__
> 
> --> "mymethod"

Thank you all for those different methods!

I try to explain why I need it:

I am writing a "prev/next" pager for a zope product.
It should work like the prev/next buttons at the
bottom of a google result. That's why I need the
methodname: href="foomethod?skip=30...."

The "pager" will be used in several methods. That's
why I can't hardcode "foomethod".

Happy Hacking!
 
  thomas

-- 
Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
http://www.thomas-guettler.de


From hotjava at pacific.net.sg  Fri Nov  1 20:59:53 2002
From: hotjava at pacific.net.sg (hotjava)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 09:59:53 +0800
Subject: Protect Python Source
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021102095951.00811780@pacific.net.sg>

Hi Guys,

The intention of my post is not to start a 'comparison war' between open
source and close source.

I agree with David Brown with his reply that each has its own merits.

Let us not hog up the mailing list with 'which is better' as this will be a
very long discussion.

I think I have found what I wanted from Armin Steinhoff's reply. His
suggestion is to use pyrex to translate my 'critical' python source to C
and build it as a library module. But I do not know why he did not suggest
me to use pyrex to translate my full python source to C. Nevertheless, this
idea seems workable.

Now I will have to decide to have:
a. fully closed apps
b. fully open apps
c. partial open and closed source apps

Looks like c. is the best.

thanks.




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 26 14:04:17 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 19:04:17 GMT
Subject: How to convert ASCII-number => HEX -number => string of numbers in  HEX ?
References: <3de39ca8$1@news.vip.fi>
Message-ID: <as0gjh$ume$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:09:23 +0200, Pekka Niiranen <krissepu at vip.fi> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I looked thru modules binascii and struct but not found a way to
>convert hexadecimal value to a string of hex values according to ascii 
>table.
>
I suspect you are working too hard ;-)

>Example:
>
>number         =    6673            (max is 0xFFF)
>hex -value     =    '0x1a11'
>string value    =    "\x31\x61\x31\x31"    (31 is one, 61 is 'a')

>
>or:
>
>number         =    333            (max is 0xFFF)
>hex -value     =    '0x14d'   
>string value    =    "\x30\x31\x34\x64"    (30 is zero, 31 is one, 34 is 
>four, 64 is "d")
>
>I have got this far:
>
>x=""
>a = hex(333)
>for byte in a[2:].zfill(4):        # Number is allways presented with 4 
>hex values (filling missing values with zeros)
>    x = "%s%s" % ( WHAT HERE )
>
>Anybody, is there a build in function or shortcut  that does this ?
>
There are other % formatting options than %s.
Perhaps this is what you want?

>>> number = 6673
>>> '%04x' % number
'1a11'
>>> '%04X' % number
'1A11'
>>> number = 333
>>> '%04x' % number
'014d'
>>> '%04X' % number
'014D'

IMO section 7.1 of the tutorial ought to have a link
where it mentions % formatting. Here is where that is
discussed in some (fairly terse) detail:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html

If you are familiar with C [s]printf formatting, it's virtually
the same. In fact, you can define your own printf-like function with

 >>> import sys
 >>> def printf(fmt, *args):
 ...     sys.stdout.write(fmt % args)
 ...

Then you can write

 >>> printf('%5d: %04x %04X %X\n', 333, 333, 333, 333)
   333: 014d 014D 14D

(Note that there is a comma after the format string, followed not
by '%' but by a comma and the rest of the arguments. The '*' on the
args in the def collects a variable number of args into a single tuple
named (in this case) args).

Using a Python print statement, you'd write

 >>> print '%5d: %04x %04X %X' % (333, 333, 333, 333)
   333: 014d 014D 14D

to get the same output. (Note the '\n' supplied by print but not sys.stdout.write)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bh at intevation.de  Tue Nov 12 06:46:08 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 12:46:08 +0100
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <bdb5b58f.0211111438.640885d2@posting.google.com> <aqpc4j$cl5$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <6q7kfjau4f.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:

> logistix wrote:
> 
> > python  -c "a,b=1,1;exec('while 1:\n\tglobal a,b\n\tprint
> > a\n\ta,b=b,a+b\n\n')"
> 
> The globals aren't needed, exec() defaults to your current namespace:
> 
> python -c "a,b=1,1;exec('while 1:\n\tprint a\n\ta,b=b,a+b\n')"

The newlines and tabs aren't needed either :)

python -c "a,b=1,1;exec('while 1: print a; a,b=b,a+b')"

Next we get rid of that unnecessary multiple assignment at the beginning
and use long ints to avoid the overflow error:

python -c "a = b = 1L; exec('while 1: print a; a,b=b,a+b')"

It would be nice to get rid of that exec, too...

  Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/


From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Thu Nov 14 13:29:49 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:29:49 +0100
Subject: Seeking advice on locking iterators
References: <pfg7tuoefe0vp6vo2oj2p66vm1o3tdtb86@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3dd3fa25$0$13656$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl>

Gon?alo Rodrigues schreef:

> Hi,
> 
> My problem is the following: I have a top object Application, roughly
> corresponding to the main thread, that spawns some child threads -
> objects on their own sake, deriving from the Thread class in the
> threading module. They communicate when they need to via queues in the
> usual way. So far so nice.
> 
> The problem is that those same child objects expose some public
> attributes (or properties, or methods, does not matter) that the
> Application object may need to change/call and doing the change via the
> queue mechanism is conceptually wrong (and a real PITA). The solution is
> obvious: wrap the attributes with locks around it. What is not so
> obvious is when these attributes are complex objects themselves, in
> particular they are iterables. In order to call iter() on these objects
> safely I coded the following helper class:
> 
> #WARNING: Brittle - use this at your own risk.
> class TIter(object):
>     """The TIter helper class, wrapping an iterator for thread safe
> acess."""
> 
>     def __init__(self, lock, iterator):
>         super(TIter, self).__init__(lock, iterator)
>         self.__lock = lock
>         self.__iterator = iter(iterator)
>         #Acquire lock => You cannot change the underlying structure
>         #while iter not exhausted.
>         self.__lock.acquire()
>         self.__acquired = 1
> 
>     #Iterator protocol.
>     def __iter__(self):
>         return self
> 
>     def next(self):
>         try:
>             ret = self.__iterator.next()
>         except StopIteration:
>             self.__lock.release()
>             self.__acquired = 0
>             raise StopIteration
>         else:
>             return ret
> 
>     def __del__(self):
>         if self.__acquired:
>             self.__lock.release()
> 
> The idea is that for the wrapping of a given attribute one has an
> associated lock (a reentrant lock, usually) that is passed to the ITer
> constructor. I have to ensure two things, though:
> 
> * The lock is acquired while the iterator is alive.
> * The lock is released when the iterator is disposed of.
> 
> So, finally, my question is: Is the above enough to ensure this? Can I

In general, no. Some reasons:
One can never be sure from the code shown when the __del__ method will be 
called, since this depends on when the last reference to the iterator goes 
out of scope.
Although CPython more or less guarantees that the __del__ method will be 
called quite soon after the last reference goes out of scope, the language 
by itself does not make such a guarantee. In Jython, you are at the mercy
of a separate a garbage collecting thread in the JVM to call the __del__ 
method, ie. it might take more than a few million CPU cycles before the 
__del__ method is called.

> be sure that __del__ is called if the iterator is garbage collected
> before being exhausted? Or is there a better (e.g. safer) mechanism for
> this?


One safe way is:

yourObject.lock()
try:
    # use an iterator on yourObject.
finally:
    yourObject.unlock()
    # and don't use the iterator again.

Ie. I don't see the point of locking the iterator, as you seem to want to
lock an object, ie. one the attributes you mentioned above.

The lock() and unlock() methods need to be added to the class of yourObject 
for this to work.

Have fun,
Ype


-- 

email at xs4all.nl


From CousinStanley at HotMail.com  Tue Nov  5 12:14:35 2002
From: CousinStanley at HotMail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:14:35 -0700
Subject: win32com: Seeking decent class browser.
References: <3DC7C7F8.C1157E9A@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <aq8u21$7fi0m$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

Alan ... 

You might check  OLEview  from MS ...
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/Services/TechNet/samples/ps/win98/Reskit/DIAGNOSE/OLEVIEW.HTM

OLEview contains a  Class Browser  as well ... 

I'm new to this sort of stuff and have just installed the program
so I don't know if the program will meet your needs or not ... 

For a folder list ...
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/Services/TechNet/samples/ps/win98/Reskit/DIAGNOSE

OLEVIEW.EXE

Cousin Stanley



From sbenning at fastmail.fm  Tue Nov 19 03:52:26 2002
From: sbenning at fastmail.fm (Sara)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 00:52:26 -0800
Subject: XML SAX
Message-ID: <78d1e22e.0211190052.37ed3488@posting.google.com>

In the Demo/xml directory of the python distribution, there is a
"roundtrip.py" exampel of how to use the XML SAX API. The script
basically parses an xml file, and echos the elements to standard out.

I have written a very small XML file I use as input (test.xml):

<body>
</body>
<body>
</body>

And I get an execption (see output below) from the expat parser, which
is selected by default.
Having just one XML "body" element works fine, but not two as in the
example above...

What is the problem?

Thanx
Sara


% python roundtrip.py test.xml

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
<body>
</body>Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Temp\roundtrip.py", line 45, in ?
    parser.parse(sys.argv[1])
  File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\sax\expatreader.py",
line 109, in parse
    xmlreader.IncrementalParser.parse(self, source)
  File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\sax\xmlreader.py", line
123, in parse
    self.feed(buffer)
  File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\sax\expatreader.py",
line 208, in feed
    self._err_handler.fatalError(exc)
  File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\sax\handler.py", line
38, in fatalError
    raise exception
xml.sax._exceptions.SAXParseException: test.xml:3:0: junk after
document elemen


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  5 08:38:46 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:38:46 +0000
Subject: urllib ??
References: <9782a2ed.0211040151.db070a3@posting.google.com> <3DC64C2A.7604FB4B@hotmail.com> <aq5v25$kkb$1@samos.cs.uu.nl> <3DC688E4.BD46E2FB@hotmail.com> <aq8bv8$lrp$1@samos.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <3DC7C9E6.791A4997@hotmail.com>

Rainer wrote:

> with the help of alan, we finally have the solution for this problem:
> 'Submit', 'Process query'),
> has to be set as a name/value pair....
> this is it

Just to make it explicitly clear, for archival purposes, the reason why
the form submission was failing was because the processing script seemed
to be checking the value of the "submit" button on the form.

Submit buttons on forms are considered to be form fields, like any other
field. When the user submits a form using a submit button, the button
which was pressed is considered to be "successful", and a name/value
pair is added to the form data for that button.

In the case of Rainer's script, the returned HTML contained the
following submit field definition

<input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Process query" />

Whenever the form was submitted using that button (in a browser), the
name value pair

Submit=Process query

was added to the POSTed form data. The processing script was expecting
to receive that name/value pair, and when it didn't, it simply returned
the HTML for the form, without doing any further processing.

Modifying Rainer's script to include the name/value pair for the submit
button solved the problem.

--
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From tismer at tismer.com  Mon Nov 18 08:12:25 2002
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:12:25 +0100
Subject: Berliner Python-Stammtisch 20.12.02 18:00 mit Stollen
References: <2E7096CE-E74E-11D6-8765-00039345C610@darwin.in-berlin.de> <E184hTu-0007pL-00@starship.python.net> <3DB915CB.5080908@tismer.com> <3DBD58CD.2080606@tismer.com>
Message-ID: <3DD8E739.9030807@tismer.com>

Dear Python-list,

please take my apologies to abuse the main list
for this regional invitation. We will set up
an extra mailing list in the near future.
For now, we are trying to advertize our regular
meeting to all pythons sitting around Berlin and
Brandenburg, who probably don't even know that
this meeting takes place every 42 days.

I will also try to get an entry in the German
resources page on python.org .

cheers to all -- chris



Liebe Berliner Python-Anh?nger
       und solche, die es werden wollen!

                     ####    ####     ####
                     #   #   #   #   #
                     ####    ####     ###
                     #   #   #           #
                     ####    #       ####

###########################################################
# Am Freitag, den 20. Dezember 2002 findet der n?chste    #
# Berliner Python-Stammtisch statt,                       #
#                                                         #
# wieder in der R?umen der GraS GmbH, Heilbronner Str. 10,#
# 10711 Berlin, 2. Stock, 18:00.                          #
###########################################################


Die Bezeichnung "Berliner Python Stammtisch" ist ganz
gut angekommen. In Wirklichkeit hei?t "BPS" nat?rlich
"Bier Pro Stunde" (oder Bit/Sec).

Nein, ganz im Ernst, das letzte Treffen hatte sehr
interessante Themen. Vermutlich werden wir ab jetzt
jemanden bitten, zusammenfassend zu protokollieren
und die Themen in einem Wiki zusammenstellen.

Au?erdem geistert die Idee herum, evtl. einen Verein
zu gr?nden. Vielleicht schaffen wir es ja tats?chlich,
gemein und n?tzig zu sein. Zumindest w?re das ein
Thema f?r dieses Treffen.

Es hat sich ferner herausgestellt, da? nicht alle
Berliner Python-Interessierten auf der python-de
Liste sind nd somit garnicht wissen, da? es BPS
gibt. Ich habe daher einige mir bekannte Firmen ins
bcc genommen. Wenn jemand sachdienliche Hinweise
zur Ergreifung weiterer unidentifizierter Pythonen
hat, bitte Bescheid sagen oder die Einladung weiterleiten.
Auch eine Weiterleitung an die Berliner Unis und
Schulen w?rde helfen, dieses Treffen f?r Berlin
und Brandenburg angemessen zu vergr??ern.

Da es kurz vor Weihnachten ist, werde ich wohl f?r ein
wenig Stollen sorgen. Es w?re sch?n, wenn ich vorab
einen ?berblick h?tte wieviele kommen werden, also
danke an Alle f?r eine kurze Notiz.

Hat jemand ein Rezept f?r Python in Perlhuhnso?e?

ciao -- chris

p.s.: Den Firmen GraS und ImageScience sei hiermit f?r
die freundliche Unterst?tzung gedankt.
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
           whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/










From bh at intevation.de  Tue Nov 19 07:07:06 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 13:07:06 +0100
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <E18E3Rt-0001rG-00@tswings.swing.cluster> <mailman.1037698233.27806.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6qfztxahlh.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:

> The one feature I'm unhappy with in python mode is text wrapping

I posted some code a while ago to get this working for the cases you
mention, strings and comments. It does work for me in most cases but
YMMV: 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-May/103189.html

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/


From a.martin at perfectwww.de  Mon Nov  4 16:52:18 2002
From: a.martin at perfectwww.de (Andreas Martin)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 13:52:18 -0800
Subject: ZODB Object evolution and class variables ?
Message-ID: <f2dbb0ed.0211041352.37eee724@posting.google.com>

Hallo !

I'm a Zopenewbie and just experimenting with own Zope Python products.
I created e sample News Product that should automatically set the id
of a new instance to an autogenerated number.

The class looks like this:

class News(SimpleItem):
    "A News object"

    meta_type = "News"

    actualKey = 0

    def __init__(self, teaser):
        self.key          = News.actualKey
        News.actualKey   += 1
        self.id           = str(self.key)
        self.teaser       = teaser

That's ok but when I change the class definition I have the problem
that my class variable "actualkey" starts again by 0.

I managed to add new instance attributes like "teaser" and a
__setstate__ function is working fine.

My only problem is the global class variable, that is changed to 0
when I refresh my product in the zope management interface.

Thanks for help


From costanza at web.de  Wed Nov 20 11:30:53 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:30:53 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DDBB8BD.6020806@web.de>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:
> 
> 

>>Puzzled. "scale well" to me means "what happens when you try to use it for a
>>big project" or possibly a small project with big runtime resource
>>requirements. CL is great at either, precisely because it can do a lot.
> 
> 
> "Scale well" normaly implies up, but what I mainly meant is that CL doesn't
> scale down well in a couple of ways. One factor are users: CL is a poor
> language for people who don't have, X (say 18) months or so of time to spare
> to learn CL (which includes pretty much everyone except people who want to
> program professionally in CL or language afficados). This doesn't imply that
> you can only use CL productively after learning it for X months, but unless
> you plan to spend this overall amount, some other language (python, for
> example) is likely to be a better choice.

Where do you get these numbers from?

I have started to take a serious look at Lisp and Scheme in April (i.e., 
April 2002). I have started to implement a Virtual Machine for Java 
bytecode in Common Lisp in July 2002 (i.e., a just-in-time compiler that 
translates Java bytecode to Common Lisp code at load time). The core of 
this Virtual Machine executes the first few test programs since the 
beginning of this month (November 2002).

So in effect, I have successfully written a piece of software in Common 
Lisp within 5 months that I wouldn't even have attempted to write in any 
other language. (And I have only spent about 8 hours per week because I 
have done it in my spare time.)

> This initial investment is unlikely to be made even by many professional
> programmers who might well profit from using CL, let alone normal users who
> just want to customize their applications, or scientists who need to do a bit
> of programming to handle their data.

Professional programmers should be able to write reasonable programs in 
Common Lisp in a short amount of time. Otherwise, I would have a problem 
to actually call them "professional". (The amount of time should be 
shorter than in my case, because I am not regularly actively programming 
- I am mainly doing programming language research.)

For average programmers (whatever that means), I firmly believe that 
Common Lisp is among the best choices to learn quite a number of 
advanced concepts that _make_ them more professional.

It's true that end users probably don't benefit a lot from Common Lisp. 
However, I am not sure about this bit. (What you can do is to divide the 
work load among experts on the one hand who design domain-specific 
languages and end users on the other hand that use these domain-specific 
languages. Common Lisp's features are excellent for this scheme. BTW, 
that's the whole point of the field of Generative Programming.)

>>In your final query, it sounds like you mean can it scale beyond the expert
>>few. If so, I think CL is very approachable (easy to get going productively
>>very quickly)
> 
>  
> I really wonder what your basis for thinking CL to be very approachable
> is.
[...]

> How about the following criteria for approachability of a language:
> 
> 1. it should be easy to do conceptually simple and common things
> 2. it should be easy to do something useful with it
> 3. it should be easy to read other peoples code
> 4. it shouldn't have too many surprises in store (e.g. undefined behavior)
> 
> I think CL fails on all these criteria, for example:
> 
> 1. operations on files and directories.

Operations on files and directories in Common Lisp are designed to be 
portable across different operating systems. (Note that in this regard, 
Unix and, say, Windows file systems are very similar.)

You can't pick an arbitrary part of a language/library and blame it for 
its complexity. You could also state that Python doesn't make it easy to 
do conceptually simple and common things and then name macro programming 
as an example. Macro programming is in fact conceptually simple and 
common in Lisp!

Each language has its strengths and weaknesses in different areas. I 
don't know a single language that's equally strong in all areas. (So I 
think that neither your statement nor my statement made up on the spot 
about macro programming in Python make any sense.)

> 2. try to write something in 1-100 lines in CL that couldn't easier be
>    written in e.g. python.

Hello World in Common Lisp:

 > "Hello, World!"
"Hello, World!"

I hope you get the joke. ;-)

> 3. just think of how many ways there are to express quite similar
>    conditional or looping constructs.

How do you measure readability?

Meiner Meinung nach h?ngt das im wesentlichen immer davon ab, welche 
Sprache man zuerst gelernt hat, oder welche man am h?ufigsten benutzt.

If you don't understand this, would you consider German to be less 
readable than English? (Run that sentence through 
http://babelfish.altavista.com to get my point. ;)

> 4. try e.g. modifying constant lists or writing a LOOP with undefined
>    behavior, or modifying the (string) keys in a hash-table.
> 
> 

In any language I know, beginners make similar mistakes.

>>and then one just keeps on learning more and more cool stuff because it is
>>so rich.
> 
> 
> Well, in python you can also learn new cool stuff till you reached a fairly
> high level (e.g. generators and metaclasses), but most of the code you write
> will still be quite readable to less clued programmers, because simple things
> are invariably expressed in pretty much the same way. So while a newbie might
> have problems groking my generator code, most other things should still be
> ok. I want to see the CL newbie that understands e.g. the series, dolist, loop
> and mapcar etc. version of the same algorithm.

Common Lisp is not designed for newbies but for experts. IMO, newbies 
should aim at becoming experts. See http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html 
for some insights related to this point.


Pascal

-- 
Pascal Costanza               University of Bonn
mailto:costanza at web.de        Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de  R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)



From jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com  Fri Nov  1 12:46:19 2002
From: jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com (Jim)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:46:19 GMT
Subject: PyQwt
References: <3znw9.43274$iV1.36511@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <3DC2102F.8080706@SPAMnwinternet.com> <apubao$coe$1@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <3DC2BDDB.8060900@SPAMnwinternet.com>

Mark wrote:
> Jim wrote:

>>I don't know how gentoo packages PyQt, but it isn't possible
>>any longer to build PyQt without the sip files (unless someone

> Ah, this might be the problem.  If the PyQT distribution has the .sip
> files but they aren't necessary after PyQT is built, they may not
> get installed anywhere.  Might that be the case?

Sounds like it. The sip files (portable) are used to
generate the cpp/h files (platform specific), and
then the cpp files are compiled to build the actual
bindings libs. PyQt no longer needs the sip files
when that's done, but any other PyQt based bindings
(PyKDE and I presume PyQwt) need the PyQt sip files
kind of like the way cpp files need h files from a
lib you're linking to - they're needed so that all
symbols can be resolved when sip is generating the
cpp code for the next PyQt based module.

If that is the case, you can just download the PyQt
tarball and extract the sip files. If you're using
sip 3.3.2 or 3.4 (sip -V -- the PyQt version already
installed will match that), then the current PyQt sip
files should be fine regardless of the Qt version
you're using. That means you shouldn't have to
rebuild and reinstall PyQt - just put the sip/
directory from the tarball somewhere that PyQwt
can find it.



Jim



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Nov 21 19:42:58 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:42:58 -0600
Subject: [Boost.Python] Printed documentation available?
In-Reply-To: <6152d0a0.0211211547.2afdb8df@posting.google.com> (thanks200@hotmail.com's
 message of "21 Nov 2002 15:47:22 -0800")
References: <6152d0a0.0211211547.2afdb8df@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m27kf6tox9.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Tom" == Tom Hanks <thanks200 at hotmail.com> writes:

    Tom> I hope the subject says it all.  I'd like a printout of the
    Tom> Boost.Python documentation (found at
    Tom> http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html) for my daily
    Tom> train trips.

    Tom> Unfortunately for me the available documentation is not
    Tom> printer-friendly. Instead it is browser-friendly, organised
    Tom> into an html tree 3-4 pages deep.

    Tom> I've googled for a couple of hours but can't find a more
    Tom> suitably formatted document.

    Tom> Can someone recommend a way to get a printable version?

If you have wget and htmldoc handly, it's not too difficult to make a
nice printed version (eg pdf).  It may take 15 or 20 minutes of work
though.  

First cd into a tmp dir and wget the docs:

 wget -rl3 -np http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html


Then make a list of *.html files in the proper order, the best way to
do this is to mirror the order they are presented in index.html

cd www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/ and run a python script like:


import re
rgx = re.compile('.*<a href="(.*?)">.*')

for line in file('index.html'):
    m = rgx.match(line)
    if m: print m.group(1)


which prints the links.  Run the script in the tutorial dir but prefix
'tutorial' to the output.  


Take the assembled file names and put them in a python script which
calls htmldoc

from os import system
from string import join
import urllib

chapters=(
    'tutorial/index.html',
    'tutorial/doc/quickstart.html',
    'tutorial/doc/building_hello_world.html',
    'tutorial/doc/exposing_classes.html',
    'tutorial/doc/constructors.html',
    'tutorial/doc/class_data_members.html',
    'tutorial/doc/class_properties.html',
    'tutorial/doc/inheritance.html',
    'tutorial/doc/class_virtual_functions.html',
    'tutorial/doc/class_operators_special_functions.html',
    'tutorial/doc/functions.html',
    'tutorial/doc/call_policies.html',
    'tutorial/doc/default_arguments.html',
    'tutorial/doc/object_interface.html',
    'tutorial/doc/basic_interface.html',
    'tutorial/doc/derived_object_types.html',
    'tutorial/doc/extracting_c___objects.html',
    'tutorial/doc/enums.html',
    'tutorial/doc/iterators.html',
    'tutorial/doc/exception_translation.html',
    'building.html',
    'v2/reference.html',
    'v2/configuration.html',
    'v2/platforms.html',
    'v2/definitions.html',
    'v2/faq.html',
    'v2/progress_reports.html',
    'v2/acknowledgments.html',
)

guideName = 'manual.pdf'
    
command = 'htmldoc --webpage -f %s %s' % (guideName , ' '.join(chapters))

rc=system(command)
if rc==0:
    print "wrote %s" % guideName
else:
    print "failed to create %s" % guideName
        
        
        
This creates a nice, high quality pdf, with images included!

John Hunter




From jonah13579 at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 24 09:36:02 2002
From: jonah13579 at hotmail.com (Jonah)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 06:36:02 -0800
Subject: Regular expression question
References: <9a5f3d1c.0211231857.78125e43@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038109173.3313.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9a5f3d1c.0211240636.7614b51a@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the well-thought out response.  I was wondering whether a
function map would be necessary.  I know that in a production
environment, the line I use gives the user too much power, but I use
this for my own purposes, and I control the source and the script.  As
for thinking in python, I'm still at the very earliest stages of
looking at python (and ruby for that matter) as a possible replacement
for/addition to perl.

jepler at unpythonic.net wrote in message news:<mailman.1038109173.3313.python-list at python.org>...
> You're doing a number of "unpythonic" things in this code.  It's best to
> learn to speak Python like a native, to get beyond building up a "phrasebook"
> to translate Perl statements into Python statements.
> 
> The biggest "unpythonic" thing is referring to an arbitrary global
> variable by its name at runtime.  This is very bad, since it lets a
> user refer to any function.  Besides that, you'll probably encapsulate
> the Python version in a module (since it's longer than a line or two),
> but the Python "globals()" returns the globals of the current module,
> not the calling module.
> 
> Anyway, here's an attempt at a Pythonic version of the perl code you
> posted.  Yes, it's longer than the Perl version.  To use it, you'd write
> 
>         def f(s): return s.upper()
>         def g(s): return s.title()
>         function_map = {'f': f, 'g': g}
>         print substitute_template("The lessons are: '%%f%%' and '%%g%%'",
>                                   function_map, "python is not perl")
>         # Test out error handling
>         print substitute_template("At the tone, time time is 10PM: %%z%%",
>                                   function_map,    "")
> 
> (The third argument corresponds to $variable in your example)
> 
> Here's the code to implement the 'substitute_template' function:
>         import re
> 
> # Since python wouldn't just refer to a global 'variable', a Subfunc
> # class records the desired argument and the function map for later use.
> # You can call a Subfunc instance just like it was a plain function
>         class Subfunc:
>             def __init__(self, function_map, arg):
>                 self.function_map = function_map
>                 self.arg = arg
> 
>             def __call__(self, s):
>                 fname = s.group(1).lower()
> # Error handling should probably be more sophisticated.
> # But hell, it's better than terminating the whole program...
>                 try:
>                     f = function_map[s]
>                 except KeyError:
>                     return "*** ERROR: bad substitution %r ***" % fname
>                 return f(self.arg)
> 
> # Compile the regular expression, since we expect to be matching it frequently
>         subre = re.compile("%%(.?)%%")
> 
> # Here's the function you call.  It creates a Subfunc instance and passes
> # it on to re.sub
>         def substitute_template(template, function_map, arg):
>             return subre.sub(Subfunc(function_map, arg), template)
> 
> Enhancing the code to let $variable be an arbitrary parameter list
> is fairly easy.  You'll need to learn about *args (and maybe **kw)
> parameters, and either the f(*args, *kw) calling convention or the
> apply function.
> 
> Jeff


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 18 13:58:40 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 18:58:40 GMT
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <mailman.1037610212.4594.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arbd90$9t2$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 01:04:43 -0800, Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> wrote:

>Bengt wrote:
>> IOW, IMO there ought to be a way to do a temporary
>global-side-effect-free
>> import and delete all traces of its having been done -- without
>restarting
>> the interpreter or invoking a second interpreter instance.
>
>Does that involve unloading a dynamically imported library? If so, you
>will have to figure out how to do that in a cross-platform manner and
>without breaking existing Python extensions.
>
Ideally.

>Here are some other issues:
>1. What happens if two "throwaway" imports of the same module happen at
>   once?
IWT something analogous to execfile. I.e., depending on what name spaces you chose.

>2. What happens if the extension module modifies global state?
Depends on which global state and how. I.e., (re)binding a name in globals()
so that it refers to the module directly or indirectly would naturally prevent unloading.
But binding a name anywhere outside the module to something independent of the module,
like immutables or dynamically generated data, etc. would be typical usage, not a problem.
    
>3. What happens if the extension module causes external entities to 
>   hold references to its objects?
Sure, that would be a problem for objects that are not separable, but my hope
was that e.g. constants and pure functions and such in .py modules could be
referenced and held while the module and anything unreferenced in it was deleted.
For C modules I would expect limitations.

Hm. Which raises the question of what you get if you write

     pi = __import('math').pi

vs
     pi = __import('math').pi*1.0

I.e., is the first pi a reference to an embedded double within the C module's memory space,
which is therefore not separable? Or is it a true heap-borne python object constructed at load
time? I'd expect the second pi to be free of any math module attachment, but is the first?
I imagine you could write it to work either way.

The same principle could apply to other attributes of a C module, IWT.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Nov  4 12:29:17 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:29:17 -0000
Subject: Need simple algorithm for newbie
References: <d1a9617c.0211040433.1eddb118@posting.google.com> <R0ux9.69104$aL4.2127754@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <usdbjdbkib91f1@corp.supernews.com>

In article <R0ux9.69104$aL4.2127754 at news1.tin.it>,
Alex Martelli  <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>as finding the second '.' from the right, RE's, and so on.  No
>matter how huge is your list, saveing (say) 10% of runtime is no
>big deal, and I don't think there can be much more than this in
>terms of optimization one way or another.  The right approach
			.
			.
			.
Please understand that Alex is *not* trivializing your
task when he writes, "no big deal", as all the accurate
and apposite details he appended should make apparent.
There are times for all of us when 10% is consequential.
He and I both have a fair amount of practical experience
dealing with hostnames and similar data.  I expect Alex
will agree with me in proposing that, if you truly have
a situation where a savings of 10% in performance of the
transformation you describe is valuable to you, we pro-
bably can save you *much* more with a slightly deeper
understanding of the underlying applicaton-level require-
ments.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From ark at research.att.com  Wed Nov 20 17:09:04 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:09:04 GMT
Subject: Advice for using emacs python-mode
References: <yu99el9g2eyf.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <uisyrq5eq.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <yu9965ur3ncv.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Syver> Hi Andrew, I've been where you are, and it's not a great place
Syver> to be. One thing I did was to put Python Output into a separate
Syver> frame (another toplevel window). This keeps the main frame of
Syver> emacs more stable.

Syver> (setq special-display-buffer-names '("*Python*" "*Python Output*"))

Ah.  Yes, that would be quite a help.  I didn't know about that
variable.  However, I do think that it would be better if python-mode
would check whether an appropriately named window already exists and,
if so, leave it alone.

Syver> The other problem (when running the interpreter and the module needs
Syver> to be reloaded), I solved by not using that feature much. I've instead
Syver> bound a key to an lisp function that uses compile mode to run the
Syver> current python file. I find that this solution solves two problems, it
Syver> doesn't freeze emacs and it avoids the problems with reloading.

Syver> (defun py-unittest ()
Syver>   "run unittest on file in the current bufffer "
Syver>   (interactive)
Syver>   (compile 
Syver>    (format "python \"%s\""
Syver> 	   (buffer-file-name))))

I suppose.

Syver> The thing about it running unittest on the current buffer really is a
Syver> lying comment. It just so happens that all my modules have a
Syver> if __name__ == '__main__':
Syver>      unittest.main()

Syver> in the bottom of them, so that running them as a main program is the
Syver> same as running the unittests contained in the file.

Gotcha.

Syver> In addition if you want to be able to step around your source for
Syver> tracebacks in the compilation buffer:
Syver> ;; python TraceBack
Syver> ;;   File "h:/mydocuments/Kode/pythonscript/AdoDb.py", line 496
Syver> (add-to-list 'compilation-error-regexp-alist
Syver>              '(".*File \"\\(.+\\)\", line \\([0-9]+\\)" 1 2))

Ah; I take it the default isn't right.

Syver> Hope this helps.

Indeed -- thanks!

Maybe I should just use Idle instead :-)

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk  Wed Nov  6 12:16:34 2002
From: graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk (Frodo Morris)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:16:34 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <aqbe90$85d$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <aqbe90$85d$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>
Message-ID: <aqbimo$a36$1@news.ox.ac.uk>

Walter Roberson wrote:
> In article <aqa2oa$8o1$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>, Frodo Morris  <""> wrote:
> :Imagine if parrot could understand all interpreted code.
> 
> I would have to think for a bit to come up with a proof, but
> it seems fairly likely to me that that would be impossible.
> 
> At the very least, for it to be possible, you would have to
> program indefinite-length pointers and allow all available disk
> space to be used as extended memory.
> 
> The problem that people keep forgetting is that Turing Equivilence
> requires indefinite memory. Turing Machines are defined as having
> infinite "tapes". Given any finite memory size, I can come up with
> an interpreter the emulation of which would not fit in that finite
> memory size.
Perdantick bast.  :-)
Imagine if parrot could understand all currently- and popularly- 
implemented interpreted languages.

-- 
FM



From python-docs at python.org  Sun Nov  3 07:01:43 2002
From: python-docs at python.org (python-docs)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 13:01:43 +0100 (added by postmaster@dns-oi.com)
Subject: Hi,python-list,let's be friends
Message-ID: <3D946F6400023A93@antivirusgw.dns-oi.com> (added by postmaster@dns-oi.com)

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From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 19 17:45:06 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:45:06 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <E18E3Rt-0001rG-00@tswings.swing.cluster> <mailman.1037698233.27806.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDABEF2.BE342B47@alcyone.com>

John Hunter wrote:

> The one feature I'm unhappy with in python mode is text wrapping
> 
> If you have
	...
> and execute fill-paragraph in the help string, it returns
> 
>   class counting_dict(dict): """A specialized dictionary for counting.
>       This help string goes on and on and on""" def __call__(self,
>       key):
>       key = key.strip() self[ key ] = self.get( key , 0 ) + 1

Indeed, this is the only fault I have with python-mode as well.  It
would be nicer if reformatting strings and constants were more clever
about context.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The great floodgates of the wonder-world swung open.
\__/ Herman Melville
    Bosskey.net: Return to Wolfenstein / http://www.bosskey.net/rtcw/
 A personal guide to Return to Castle Wolfenstein.


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Nov  6 12:10:38 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:10:38 -0600
Subject: Emacs and Indentation
In-Reply-To: <aqbcvb$6b65@eccws12.dearborn.ford.com>
References: <aqbcvb$6b65@eccws12.dearborn.ford.com>
Message-ID: <15817.19726.236883.249167@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Michael>     for x in mylist:
    Michael>     if not x in filled:
    Michael>         foo[x] = x[1]
    Michael>         bar[x] = x[2]
    Michael>     y = x

    Michael> In other languages (Tcl, Java, C++) where the block delimiters
    Michael> are explicit, I can just highlight the region and issue an
    Michael> "indent-region" and it would automatically indent everything
    Michael> appropriately.  As far as I can tell, this does nothing in
    Michael> Emacs (v21.4, windows).  

If you are using python-mode to edit Python source, it adds C-c > and C-c <
to move the highlighted region in the obvious direction.  python-mode.el is
available in the Misc subdirectory of the source distribution.  I assume
it's also delivered with Windows binaries, but if not, you can grab the most
recent version from CVS using this URL:

    http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/python/python/dist/src/Misc/python-mode.el?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/plain

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Wed Nov 13 05:20:14 2002
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:20:14 +0100
Subject: Problems having Python read from SQL server
References: <MPG.183ba8615db5065f989684@news.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3DD2275E.3020608@mplusr.de>

Tom Nunamaker schrieb:
> The DSN is setup as a system DSN and it has the UID/PWD in the DSN 
> setup.  Other programs can connect fine with the DSN. 
> 
> The common error I'm getting with Python scripts is:
> 
> "[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Login failed for user 
> '(null)'.  Reason: Not associated with a trusted SQL Server connection."
> 
> How can I create a trusted connection?  The SQL server is on a shared 
> ISP's box and I don't have the sa login for it.

In a trusted connection your encrypted Windows login credentials are
transmitted to the SQL server. No need to use UID/PWD in the DSN,
indeed trusted connection should abandon the necessity to store
cleartext passwords in the DSN. If you still aren't successful,
you should supply more details.

Follow up to comp.databases.ms-sqlserver.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------



From ulrich.backes at trw.com  Mon Nov  4 04:20:42 2002
From: ulrich.backes at trw.com (Ulrich Backes)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 01:20:42 -0800
Subject: modules share variables without class def
Message-ID: <6b9badbc.0211040120.316be0e0@posting.google.com>

Hi there,

from several postings, i compiled the following scheme:

# test.py:
from func import testf
import globalvars
globalvars.port = 1
print testf() # -----> 1 OK!

# globalvars.py:
port = None
global port

# func.py:
import globalvars
def testf():
  return(globalvars.port)

That works. But if i try to use the blank variable name, it fails:

# test.py:
from func import testf
from globalvars import port
port = 1
print testf() # -----> None...

# globalvars.py:
port = None
global port

# func.py:
from globalvars import port
def testf():
  return(port)

Thanks for your advice,

Ulrich


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 21 18:23:03 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:23:03 -0800
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xQWdnY8p3JLag0CgXTWcog@comcast.com> <3DDD556B.3936A6AE@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037919455.17053.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDD6AD7.2020400@alcyone.com>

Chad Netzer wrote:

> Actually, I think you are wrong.  It is done the way it is done for 
> consistency.  It may also have been the easiest to implement (simply because 
> it *IS* the most consistent and inconsistencies naturally lead to more code), 
> but I doubt it would have been THAT much harder to implement invariant 
> default arguments, if it had been considered important.  I think it just 
> wasn't recognized as a significant problem (and indeed, it is a debatable 
> one).


Well, there are certainly other behaviors that have been changed when it 
was realized that they presented problems (such as the rather 
controversial upcoming change of integer division).  In other words, I 
don't really see any evidence that the current behavior was a conscious 
decision made anywhere beyond the point of, "This is the easiest way to 
do it."

> However, I do agree that, on the whole, the current behavior probably strikes 
> most users as surprising at first, even when it is understood to be the 
> expected behavior.  Most people would probably want their default arguments 
> to be invariant from call to call (which would entail more overhead, I hasten 
> to add, since objects might have to be created for each call).


True it would involve more overhead, but if you have to create new 
objects manually anyway, you obviously have to incur the same overhead, 
so this doesn't really seem to be a real objection.

-- 
  Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I always entertain great hopes.
\__/ Robert Frost
     Blackgirl International / http://www.blackgirl.org/
  The Internet resource for black women.



From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 15 00:08:37 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:08:37 -0800
Subject: rm -rf in python?
In-Reply-To: <3DD478CD.2080608@verio.net>
References: <3DD478CD.2080608@verio.net>
Message-ID: <200211150508.VAA12921@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Thursday 14 November 2002 20:32, VanL wrote:
> I suppose that I could recurse
> down through, deleteing as I went, but it seems that there must be an
> easier way.

Nope, there isn't.  (At least, not a portable way)

The good news is that you can write it recursively, and it'll be a small 
piece of code (don't follow soft-links, though. )

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From imbosol at vt.edu  Sat Nov  9 14:49:48 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:49:48 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
Message-ID: <aqjr09$qbg$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Johannes Gr?dem wrote:
> * Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu>:
> 
>> Python represents logical nesting the same way human read it, by
>> indentation.  Lisp repesents all nesting with parentheses, [...]
> 
> When you program in Lisp, you (your editor) indents blocks for you,
> which makes it easy to see block structure.  Noone actually manually
> count parentheses.  (All sane editors support paren-matching.)

I know that.  But that's just humans using the editor to count for
them.  The point was you can't eyeball the nesting of parentheses.


>> Python uses infix notation for math.  Most humans were brought up to
>> understand infix.
> 
> Because Lisp has a powerful macro system, it is actually possible to
> have an infix-macro, which lets you use infix-syntax.  And you can
> write macros to support all sorts of weird syntax, if you want.

The kind of person who writes an infix compiler in Lisp is not the
type of person who's going to be daunted by all the parentheses.
We're talking about the popularity of Lisp, which (as with all
languages) is largely determined by people who are not that kind of
person.




>> The reason Python programmers often don't have to think about it
>> is most of the time it's intuitive.  [Evaluation order.]
> 
> And when is it not intuitive in Lisp?  Sure, you can write macros that
> evaluate arguments in unintuitive order, but why would you?  For
> functions, arguments are evaluated left-to-right, just as you would
> expect.

It's not that Lisp goes out of its way to be unintuitive, but you
still can't rely on your intuition because of the many exceptions, and
an understanding of evaulation order is necessary to avoid pitfalls.
Python has a few pitfalls related to time of evaulation; Lisp has
hundreds.

Notes about when a particular form is evaluated are all over the spec.
There are a lot of macros and special forms for which it isn't clear
whether you should quote an argument or not.  Just the fact that there
are macros at all (and that they look just like functions) means the
programmer has to be aware of evaulation issues.

Then you throw compiling into this.  In every compiled language I
know, with two exceptions, it is completely obvious whether code is
evaluated at compile time or run time.  The two exceptions are Perl
and Lisp.  In Lisp, sometimes it isn't even *defined* when code gets
evaluated.  So, the programmer has to guard against both cases.  How
can you do that without understanding evaluation issues?

What I'm saying is, in Python, you can all but ignore time of
evaluation.  You can't do that in Lisp.


> Maybe you're confusing Lisp with Scheme?

I don't know what problems Scheme has that Common Lisp doesn't in this
regard.  Care to elaborate?  Or is that just a common reaction to
criticism of Lisp ("it can't possibly be us, you must be thinking of
that quaint language Scheme")?


-- 
CARL BANKS


From mike at skew.org  Wed Nov  6 10:25:23 2002
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:25:23 -0700 (MST)
Subject: regex puzzle
In-Reply-To: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB220DA8@hendrix.empolisuk.com>
 "from Harvey Thomas at Nov 6, 2002 02:43:59 pm"
Message-ID: <200211061525.gA6FPNNZ025491@chilled.skew.org>

Harvey Thomas wrote:
> Mike Brown wrote:
> > 
> > I need an example of a regular expression that:
> > 
> > - matches an empty string
> > - matches a non-empty string
> > - does NOT match a string consisting of only a linefeed
> > 
> > So, this test should produce [1, 1, 0]...
> > 
> > import re
> > pat = '^(.+)?$' # FIXME
> > [(re.search(pat, s) is not None) for s in ['', 'foo', '\n']]
> > 
> > Any suggestions? :)
> > 
> 
> Why do you need a regex, or is there something you've missed out. As stated above, how about:
> 
> >>> [s != '\n' for s in ['', 'foo', '\n']]
> [1, 1, 0]

Heh. Well, when I said "matches a non-empty string", I meant "matches certain
non-empty strings". More accurately, I need to match either the empty string
or a very lengthy pattern (2.8K, for strict validation of URI references). To
keep the test case simple, I simplified this to "(.+)?", but didn't make it so
clear when I asked the question on comp.lang.python.

I believe I got it working now with r"\A(?!\n)" + MYPATTERN + r"\Z" after
someone replying in the newsgroup got me on the right track. The fruit of this
labor is in
http://cvs.4suite.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/4Suite/Ft/Lib/Uri.py?rev=1.32&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
down around STRICT_URIREF_PYREGEX, providing the functionality for a URI 
reference validator, matchesUriRefSyntax().

   - Mike
____________________________________________________________________________
  mike j. brown                   |  xml/xslt: http://skew.org/xml/
  denver/boulder, colorado, usa   |  resume: http://skew.org/~mike/resume/



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Nov  6 14:29:07 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:29:07 -0800
Subject: idiom for initialising variables
In-Reply-To: <20021106110652.D18006@ActiveState.com>; from trentm@ActiveState.com on Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 11:06:52AM -0800
References: <3dc964fa$0$12989@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <20021106110652.D18006@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <20021106112907.E18006@ActiveState.com>

[Trent Mick wrote]
> Either works. Which one you chose probably depends more on your
> preference for aethetics than anything else. There *is* a slight
> difference in when the 'a' variable gets created. With the former, you
> can access 'a' on the class object. With the latter you have to create a
> class instance (i.e. the __init__() method has to run) before 'a' is
> available.

Despite having a response that looks almost exactly like mine, Erik's
response reveals a difference that I didn't really identify: that 'a' in
the former case ("TopLevel" in my example) is shared by all instances.
So, to continue my example code:

> 
>     >>> class TopLevel:
>     ...     a = 1
>     ...     def __init__(self):
>     ...             pass
>     ...
>     >>> class InInit:
>     ...     def __init__(self):
>     ...             self.a = 1
>     ...
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>> t = TopLevel()
>     >>> t.a
>     1
>     >>> i = InInit()
>     >>> i.a
>     1
>     >>>
>     >>> TopLevel.a
>     1
>     >>> InInit.a
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>     AttributeError: class InInit has no attribute 'a'
>     >>>

    >>> t = TopLevel()
    >>> t.a
    1
    >>>
    >>> TopLevel.a
    1
    >>> TopLevel.a = 42
    >>> t.a
    42
    >>>


not-quite-as-swift-as-erik-ly yours,
Trent


-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov  6 14:42:53 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:42:53 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com> <mailman.1036601108.23735.python-list@python.org> <sA6q3WAW5Uy9Ew4K@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <20021106184401.X30315@prim.han.de> <mailman.1036608261.5045.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VX-dnbv54aAR81SgXTWcoA@comcast.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> I think that python allows any reference to change type dynamically.

Better put: python allows names to be dynamically rebound to
(reference to) object of any type regardless of previous binding.

> I don't think C# allows this, but am no expert. The implication is
that
> C# can be very much more agressive in its JIT compilation. When it
sees
> x*y for x and y known ints it can compile an integer multiply.
Python
> only sees x*y and without the type information it is forced to do
type
> lookup at run time.
>
> As you point out psyco can do the compilation, but only into the
generic
> multiply (unless psyco can be hinted in some way).

I believe that Psycho *does* compile to specific int multiply.  Hence
up to 10x speedup.  That's what Armin means by 'specializing'
compiler.  The same 'x*y' could also be compiled to float multiply if
that also happens on another entry to same code.  Correct version
would be selected as needed.  Process has setup time and space
overhead, which is why programmer must specify (inner) functions to
psyco-ize.

Terry J. Reedy




From rpgnmets at aol.com  Sun Nov 17 15:44:51 2002
From: rpgnmets at aol.com (Rob Renaud)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 12:44:51 -0800
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net> <mailman.1037506706.23922.python-list@python.org> <3DD7B7E8.2020402@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3759308d.0211171244.696fa54e@posting.google.com>

I think this works... I don't know if the ability to sort (hence,
objects must be comparable), breaks your guarentee, but my algorithm
should be O(n*lg(n)) I believe, while yours is O(n*n).  I am also not
a great python programmer (read, I suck with python and my C++
background is probably extremely evident :) ).  But anyway, here it
is, along with a little bit of benchmarks.

If this fits your requirements and you want to know how it works and
can't understand from the code, I'll try to explain it.

import time

def merge(*lists):
	sorted_combo = []
	for single_list in lists:
		sorted_combo += single_list
	sorted_combo.sort()

	uniq_count = 0
	current = 0
	uniq_tracker = [None]*len(sorted_combo)
	upper_bound = len(sorted_combo) - 1

	if upper_bound == -1: # special case, all lists are empty
		return []

	while current < upper_bound:
		if sorted_combo[current] != sorted_combo[current+1]:
			uniq_tracker[current] = 1
			uniq_count += 1
		current += 1

	# last element always unique
	uniq_count += 1
	uniq_tracker[-1] = 1

	result = [None]*uniq_count
	index_to_check = 0
	index_to_add = 0
	for elem in sorted_combo:
		if uniq_tracker[index_to_check] != None:
			result[index_to_add] = elem
			index_to_add += 1
		index_to_check += 1

	return result

def uniq(*args) :
    theInputList = []
    for theList in args:
       theInputList += theList
    theFinalList = []
    for elem in theInputList:
       if elem not in theFinalList:
          theFinalList.append(elem)
    return theFinalList

def time_test(func, lists):
	total_items = 0
	for single_list in lists:
		total_items += len(single_list)
	start = time.time()
	func(*lists)
	elapsed = time.time() - start
	print ("%s took %f seconds to merge %d lists of %d total elements") %
(
	func.__name__, elapsed, len(lists), total_items)

test_lists = [range(12325), range(1234), ['hello', 'my name is rob']]
time_test(uniq, test_lists)
time_test(merge, test_lists)


From osuchw at ecn.ab.ca  Sat Nov 23 18:44:37 2002
From: osuchw at ecn.ab.ca (Waldemar Osuch)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 15:44:37 -0800
Subject: pythonwin strangeness
References: <yGaN2+ABti39EwyC@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c5b3dbee.0211231544.1733565f@posting.google.com>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<yGaN2+ABti39EwyC at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>...
> I have just noticed a peculiarity with Pythonwin 148 and Python-2.2.2.
> When I try and debug a program execution keeps stopping at line 923 of
> lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py
> 
> 
> ie at the line
> def _doexec(cmd, globals, locals):
> 
> 
> I was sure this didn't happen when I first installed 148 so I have
> reinstalled it, but still see the same thing happening. The same thing
> doesn't happen at a work machine.
> 
> Any ideas?

There was a thread about it recently:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=7e964d1d.0210290430.54124818%40posting.google.com&rnum=5&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpythonwin%2Bdebug%2Bgroup:comp.lang.python.*%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG%26scoring%3Dd

Waldemar Osuch


From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 13 23:50:39 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:50:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to comment a block of codes in Python?
Message-ID: <20021114045039.63918.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey, this might be easy but I don't figure out myself.
How to comment a block of codes(including a bunch of
lines with indentation)? Now, I just use "#" to
comment every line and it's so clumsy when I want to
test part of the codes.

Thanks!


=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com



From Loko at caramail.com  Thu Nov  7 05:48:23 2002
From: Loko at caramail.com (Loko)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 02:48:23 -0800
Subject: Davlib documentation ?
Message-ID: <399d6c30.0211070248.355a1eb2@posting.google.com>

Hello

I recently downloaded and installed the davlib for Python. There's no
documentation in the tar file, should i browse the lib to understand
how those functions/methods are supposed to work ?

Aren't there an official documentation for that library ? I couldn't
find one in python.org ...

Regards
Arnaud


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Nov 11 11:48:35 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:48:35 -0600
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
In-Reply-To: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021111164824.GA12121@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 07:20:20AM -0800, Pittaya wrote:
> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
> a single line of code.
> 
> perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
> 
> can python do something like this?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Personally, I think this is the best program for computing the fibonacci
sequence:

import zlib,base64;exec zlib.decompress(base64.decodestring('eNpLtE2yNeQqz8jMSVUwtOJSSNRJsk3STtRJ5FIoKMrMK1FI5AIAsOwJ0A=='))

it's as unreadable as the best Perl code IMO

Jeff



From hgg9140 at seanet.com  Fri Nov  1 16:21:06 2002
From: hgg9140 at seanet.com (Harry George)
Date: 01 Nov 2002 13:21:06 -0800
Subject: HTMLgen replacment module
References: <3dc0f443$0$4714@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <mailman.1036180442.21868.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m34rb17zr1.fsf@wilma.localdomain>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:

> On Thu, 2002-10-31 at 03:13, Nicholas Yue wrote:
> >     Given that the last update of HTMLgen is 1998, is there any update or a
> > replacement package?
> > 
> >     I am looking for an HTML generation package.
> 
> I wrote a very small HTML generator (*very* small) that I use for
> generating HTML fragments in a project of mine:
> 
>   http://funformkit.sourceforge.net/FunFormKit/SimpleHTMLGen.py
> 
> Being small, it's pretty predictable and I think easy to understand.  
> 
>   Ian
> 
> 

I wrote a package "Pdx" which uses POD-like markups to generate HTML,
DocBook, and LaTeX outputs.  It can be used for small hunks of HTML as
well.  See "Pdx" at:
  http://www.seanet.com/~hgg9140/comp/index.html

-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Tue Nov 26 01:23:24 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:23:24 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <arsni0$pnk$1@news.netpower.no> <slrnau4sle.9as.grante@localhost.localdomain> <sss5uus0o18jtdi2lcpp3605vfgscmvmum@4ax.com> <slrnau5u4i.9ei.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <me46uu0vhkk6sg5nupchn109m3ih7k1b9t@4ax.com>

>I find lambda quite useful for creating simple anonymous functions to pass
>to GUIs as button commands and the like.

Simple indeed. It's a consequence of the Python syntactic structure that lambdas
shall _always_ be nothing more than a tiny little sub language in which certain
normal Python expressions can never occur.

C//



From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Fri Nov 29 06:10:15 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 13:10:15 +0200
Subject: to PYQT gurus
References: <3de030bd$0$18232$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3DE07595.7070504@SPAMnwinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3de75927@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Jim <jbublitzNO at spamnwinternet.com> wrote:
[...]
> I don't feel qualified to respond under the title, but ...

Now if _you_ don't feel qualified who else but Phil may do? ;-)

Cheers and have a nice weekend!

Mickey.

:M:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dipl.-Inf. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer   mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de 
  Raum 10b - ++49 69 798 28358       Fachbereich Informatik und Biologie  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


From rockboxb at webmail.co.za  Tue Nov 12 19:58:15 2002
From: rockboxb at webmail.co.za (rockbox)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:58:15 GMT
Subject: total and utter newbie
References: <pan.2002.11.12.23.36.32.644986@webmail.co.za> <mailman.1037145377.2807.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.13.00.59.27.969265@webmail.co.za>

That did the trick. Thanks for the help :)

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:54:41 +0000, John Hunter wrote:

>>>>>> "rockbox" == rockbox  <rockboxb at webmail.co.za> writes:
> 
>     rockbox> Hi.  I hope that this is the right group to post this
>     rockbox> problem in. If not then I appologise.
> 
> Ahh yes, the oldest newbie problem in the book :-)
> 
> In current versions of python (as in C and many other programming
> languages) an integer divided by an integer returns an integer, so
> 
> x = 3/2      #x is 1
> 
> but if either number is a floating point number, then the division you
> are expecting is used
> 
> x = 3.0/2.0  # x = 1.5
> 
> The trick is to add a decimal point and a 0 to your number unless you
> want integer behavior
> 
> x = 3.0/2  # this is also 1.5
> 
> This is being phased out of python, and is slated for destruction.
> 
> Recent versions of python (2.2?) allow you to use
> 
> from __future__ import division
> 
> at the beginning of your program to get the division you are
> expecting.
> 
> See http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0238.html for the official
> information about these changes, and how how to do old fashioned
> integer division under the new system when you want to.
> 
> Have fun!
> John Hunter



From drt568 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 25 12:24:55 2002
From: drt568 at yahoo.com (Doug Troupe)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:24:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: install on AIX
Message-ID: <20021125172455.98663.qmail@web40610.mail.yahoo.com>

 Hello I am trying to install Python2.2.2 on my AIX
server.
I have 
OS Version = 4.3.3.10
C-Compiler = VisualAge C++ 5.0
When I run the command "./configure"
I get this message.

# ./configure                
loading cache ./config.cache
checking MACHDEP... aix4
checking for --without-gcc... 
checking for --with-cxx=<compiler>... no
checking for c++... no
checking for g++... no
checking for gcc... no
checking for CC... no
checking for cxx... no
checking for cc++... no
checking for cl... no
checking for gcc... cc_r
checking whether the C compiler (cc_r  ) works... no
configure: error: installation or configuration
problem: C compiler
cannot create executables.

This is the output from config.out file:

This file contains any messages produced by compilers
while
running configure, to aid debugging if configure makes
a mistake.

configure:628: checking MACHDEP
configure:671: checking for --without-gcc
configure:723: checking for --with-cxx=<compiler>
configure:760: checking for c++
configure:760: checking for g++
configure:760: checking for gcc
configure:760: checking for CC
configure:760: checking for cxx
configure:760: checking for cc++
configure:760: checking for cl
configure:854: checking for gcc
configure:967: checking whether the C compiler (cc_r 
) works
configure:983: cc_r -o conftest    conftest.c  1>&5
cc_r: 1501-224 fatal error in /usr/vac/exe/xlcentry:
signal 11 received
configure: failed program was:

#line 978 "configure"
#include "confdefs.h"

main(){return(0);}


Please Help.
Thanks, Dr. Doug


 
 


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 27 13:33:47 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:33:47 -0500
Subject: To GC or not to GC?
References: <3DDD4751.9050807@nyc.rr.com> <m3bs4ieizl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3DDD5E90.8070500@nyc.rr.com> <7h3isyjqkb5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4aidnY2QhuWTjXigXTWcqA@comcast.com>

> Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:
>
> > Sorry, I looked at Python years ago and thought I saw /manual/ ref
> > counting, but maybe that was just the stuff done by C code (which
I
> > understand is ineluctable).

Yes.  If you interact with the C Python interpreter with C code by
using the C API, you must learn about ref counting and occasionally
use incref(ob) and decref(ob).  Makes you appreciate what the
interpreter hides when we write Python code.  (It also hides numerous
system and compiler differences and incompatibilities, but that's
another story.)

TJR




From rjkuhns at geetel.net  Fri Nov 29 09:57:34 2002
From: rjkuhns at geetel.net (Richard Kuhns)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:57:34 -0500
Subject: Tkinter scrolling canvas questions
In-Reply-To: <as2qpc$j1m$1@news-reader10.wanadoo.fr>
References: <mailman.1038412478.18166.python-list@python.org>
	<as2qpc$j1m$1@news-reader10.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20021129095734.496bc92a.rjkuhns@geetel.net>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:19:41 +0100
Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> wrote:

> The class ScrolledFrame in Pmw is your friend: 
> http://pmw.sourceforge.net/doc/ScrolledFrame.html
> 
> Download it @ http://pmw.sourceforge.net/
> 
> The "real" method would actually involve computing the size of each
> frame you build via frm.winfo_height() (after a frm.update(), or the
> size will always be 0 or 1), add them all and configure your Canvas's
> scrollregion with that. Since Pmw does all the work for you, you really
> shouldn't bother...
> 
> HTH

Thanks; ScrolledFrame (and the rest of Pmw) looks very useful, and I'll be
experimenting with it in mere moments.

Would you mind telling me what you used for a reference to find info on
winfo_height() and update()?  Did you just install and read through the
Tcl/Tk docs, or is there a particular book you like?  I like PP2E over
all, but the index leaves a little to be desired.

	- Dick
-- 
Richard Kuhns			rjkkuhns at geetel.net



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sun Nov 24 13:46:36 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 18:46:36 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1038097779.22927.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfslm3ibyb7.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

"Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> writes:


> I OTOH fall firmly in the category of people who prefer 'for x in dict' to
> iterate over the keys. In my own code I rarely use 'dict.values()', but very
> often use 'dict.keys()'. I am more likely to use 'dict.items()' than
> 'dict.values()' and think this would have been the other logical choice for
> iteration over a dict (i.e. returning key, value).
> 
> The most common case should be used for the shortest form.

All other things being equal, yes of course. But I think they aren't equal
because you loose an useful abstraction for the dubious gain of having 7
characters less to type.

Both sequences and dicts map keys to values and so do many other container
types and thus their interfaces should reflect that underlying similarity. For
one that allows you to replace dicts and lists in places in your code where
you only need a mapping between numbers and values and either a list or a dict
might in the end turn out to be the best way to achieve that goal.

Similarly also can't see a good conceptual or pragmatic reason why all lists
shouldn't have .get, .items. etc. indeed a .get method for sequence types
would be often quite useful and being able to write

  for i, elt in seq.items():...

Also, you might want to have a container class that has attributes of both a
list and a dict, say an ordered dict and the current semantics make this
awkward.


alex


From irmen at NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sat Nov 23 15:00:56 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 21:00:56 +0100
Subject: Post mortem debugging IDE
Message-ID: <3ddfde75$0$11752$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Hi
What Python IDE supports post mortem debugging?
I've looked briefly at Komodo 2.0 but I can't seem to find it there.

Irmen



From bondpaper at earthlink.net  Sat Nov  2 13:24:47 2002
From: bondpaper at earthlink.net (Tom)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 18:24:47 GMT
Subject: PyGTK question
References: <bondpaper-C75E1F.16013326102002@nnrp06.earthlink.net> <slrnarm8gh.2es.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <bondpaper-26050E.19230726102002@nnrp06.earthlink.net> <m2bs5c9hla.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <bondpaper-3B7C19.11292902112002@nnrp06.earthlink.net>

In article <m2bs5c9hla.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> 
wrote:

> Tom <bondpaper at earthlink.net> writes:
> 
> > Thanks for your help. If I compile it from source (pygtk2-1.99.10-1), 
> > wouldn't it check for a version of python that is compatible when 
> > running the ./configure script? 
> 
> God knows.  You'd have thought so, but it doesn't look like it.
> 
> The problem you're having is that the gtk DSO seems to be looking for
> a wide unicoode build of Python whereas the Python you're running is
> built for narrow unicode.
> 
> How many versions of Python do you have on your machine?

I have two at the moment...1.5 and 2.2. However, I have recently 
downloaded (but not yet installed) 2.1 to see if I get different 
results. Currently, I've sidestepped the issue by using fltk. It's not 
python, but it does work. 


Regards,

Tom


From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 12 10:50:44 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:50:44 GMT
Subject: Optimisation problem
References: <mailman.1037087175.5506.python-list@python.org> <aqr28o$4om$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <7h3heem23ju.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:

> On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:44:28 +0800, "Simon Wittber (Maptek)"
> <Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au> wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >Does anyone have any idea how I can optimise this code? It is going to
> >be used in a very tight rendering loop. I would prefer to keep all the
> >code in Python, and avoid writing any external modules.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >	def __createMatrix(self):
> >		self.matrix[0] = 1.0 - 2.0 * ( self.y * self.y + self.z
> >* self.z )
> 
> Create local variables so that they can be found in the local scope of
> the function:
> 
> m,x,y,z = self.matrix,self.x,self.y,self.z
> 
> This is faster

Don't be so sure: this creates a tuple.

    m = self.matrix; x = self.x; ... etc

is quicker.

>  and also saves typing.

But more typing.

> Furthermore testing the effects of speeding things up this way -
> using a speed test - is crucial. One is toggling with the handles of
> a very complex machinery and the results may be unpredictable.

This is of course very good advice.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I believe C++ instills fear in programmers, fear that the
  interaction of some details causes unpredictable results.
                                        -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp


From jalab2010 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  1 17:53:03 2002
From: jalab2010 at yahoo.com (Jalab)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 14:53:03 -0800
Subject: Textbooks on Perl/Python
Message-ID: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com>

Greetings all,
Any help in finding a university level textbook on the subject of
"Scripting languages" I am mainly looking for a book that covers Perl
and Python only as the 2 main scripting languages and that is written
for students, i.e. chapter summary, exercises, etc. I hate to force my
student to buy and study from two separate books.

Any ideas?
Thanks.


 -- WHA


From klaatu at evertek.net  Wed Nov 20 16:28:06 2002
From: klaatu at evertek.net (Mike Dean)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:28:06 -0600
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arguqd$oon$1@ins22.netins.net>

Ahh, this makes everything clear.  As usual, simple and elegant.  But, 
where is this documented in the Python docs?

-Michael

On Tuesday 19 November 2002 10:48 pm, Chad Netzer 
<cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> On Tuesday 19 November 2002 18:59, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
>> As for the "why," I think it's just a historical accident which is
>> too late to change now.
> 
> Actually, it isn't so random as that.  When you make a function with
> "def", it actually makes a function object right there, rather than
> making a promise
> to provide one later when linking.  If you redefine a function (not
> allowed in many languages), python will happily make a new function
> object using the same name, etc.
> 
> So, since the default argument is part of the definition, the default
> argument is actually created and bound, once, during the definition,
> not
> repeatedly during calling.  But if you call a function repeatedly,
> giving an
> empty list argument each time, for example, a list IS created each
> time.  It is all as you would expect, once you get into the proper
> mode of thinking about it.
> 



From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Mon Nov 25 07:21:37 2002
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:21:37 +0100
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
Message-ID: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com>

Hi:

I'm confused by the following behavior of new-style classes
and operators:

    class MyInt(object):
        def __init__(self, val):
            self.val = val        
        def __getattr__(self, attr):
            return getattr(self.val, attr)


> python
Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 16 2002, 19:59:11) 
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from MyInt import MyInt
>>> a = MyInt(3)
>>> a.__add__(4)
7
>>> a + 4
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unsupported operand types for +: 'MyInt' and 'int'



I don't think is can be the intention. Or can it?

Regards, Jan

--
Jan Decaluwe
Losbergenlaan 16
B-3010 Leuven
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com


From mstenner at phy.duke.edu  Fri Nov 15 11:33:50 2002
From: mstenner at phy.duke.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:33:50 -0500
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A747@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>; from tdelaney@avaya.com on Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 11:13:50AM +1100
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A747@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <20021115113350.A18149@phy.duke.edu>

On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 11:13:50AM +1100, Delaney, Timothy wrote:
> [python code with timings ommitted]
> 
> The above is a completely different situation - it is a case of inlining
> code directly.

I understand that this thread has gone in a couple of different
directions.  Just to be clear, I'm talking about python and addressing
your assertion that modern compilers/computers obsolete the necessity
for programmer-requested inline functions.  I am talking about
'inline'ing code solely for the purpose of speed; avoiding the
function call/stack overhead for small operations.

The example I gave was the first one that occured to me, and not at
all dissimilar from things I've done in the past.  If the python
compiler was supposed to inline that (being a modern compiler and all)
then it failed.  I wouldn't mind if I could do "inline def(...):", but
I can't.

< snipping some C++ stuff >

> In real-world performance, using the 'inline' hint in C++ is usually
> worthless. If you have an optimising compiler, it will tend to ignore your
> hint, and determine for itself what should be inlined (and it's usually a
> better guesser than you are). 

It looks like the current python compiler does not fit this
description.  [ Note: I had a flash of panic as I typed this last
sentence.  I had not used the -O option.  Just tried it, and it made
no difference. ]

> If you *don't* have an optimising compiler, then usually one of two
> things will occur: the compiler will blindly obey all your 'inline'
> hints, usually leading to code bloat and optimisation of things that
> don't need to be,

In that event, the burden falls on the programmer to use inline
responsibly.  You're suggesting that "responsibly" means never.  I
think I can do better than that, especially with profiling.

> or will blindly ignore all your 'inline' hints and will inline
> nothing.

Again, problem with the compiler.

> I've seen lots of code which 'inline'd things all over the place
> ... and then used the STL in performance-critical sections.

And again, problem with the programmer.  Since when does python
withold a useful tool just because it's sometimes abused?

> It comes down to the two rules of optimisation (Knuth? Jackson?):
> 
> 1. Don't do it.
> 2. (For experts only) Don't do it yet.

Those are excellent guidelines.  They're also a bit tongue-in-cheek.
There are times when optimization is useful and beneficial.  You claim
that a good compiler should do it for you.  The python compiler
doesn't.  I understand that improper application of 'inline' can
nastify things, but as it stands, my only real option is to actually
paste the operation in all of the places where it will be used.  This
is MUCH uglier.
					-Michael
-- 
  Michael Stenner                       Office Phone: 919-660-2513
  Duke University, Dept. of Physics       mstenner at phy.duke.edu
  Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305



From avajrd at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  2 22:45:20 2002
From: avajrd at yahoo.com (Mike)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 19:45:20 -0800
Subject: python -u under cygwin telnet
Message-ID: <954ef463.0211021945.7a1b5c05@posting.google.com>

Perhaps somebody here can enlighten me on this.

I have a small program that interfaces with a serial port using the
uspp (univerisal serial port) package.  This required the win32all
v148 as a pre-req.  This program works as designed from cmd.exe.

Python version is "Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32
bit (Intel)] on win32"

I needed to have this program called from a cgi script using expect so
I installed the latest cygwin and configured inetd to run a service to
support telnetd.  When I try to run the python interpreter
interactively from a telnet session, I do not get any prompts.

When I run the program, it works, but no output is displayed until it
terminates.  Using the -u switch overcomes this.

The cygwin version of python works correctly interactively, but I
can't use this because uspp does not work in cygwin.

I do not get this behaviour from a cygwin bash shell from the machine,
not using telnet.

Does any of this make sense?  I'm not really in a "pickle" (sorry for
the pun), but just trying to understand why.


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Thu Nov 14 05:20:09 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:20:09 +0100
Subject: Python and open source in medical applications
Message-ID: <aqvtbb$2hs$1@news.netpower.no>

There was a recent thread here about the use of open source software, and
python software, in medical fields.  I came across some information in Brave
GNU World, which people might be interested in.  There is a debian
distribution being developed which is aimed specifically at medical
installations, and there is a project called Gnumed, aimed (as far as I
could see) at handling paperwork and information databases for medical
uses - it appears to be mainly written in Python.

Links:

http://www.gnu.org/brave-gnu-world/issue-41.en.html

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med/

http://www.gnumed.org/






From wojciech at n0spam-kocjan.org  Wed Nov  6 01:53:41 2002
From: wojciech at n0spam-kocjan.org (Wojciech Kocjan)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 07:53:41 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqae8i$hrf$2@news.tpi.pl>

Frodo Morris wrote:
>> What advantage would this have over putting a #! line in the bytecode?
> Faster, better, cheaper.
> Imagine if parrot could understand all interpreted code.  Why not leave 
> it running, so that any Perl/Python/Tcl/Ruby/Java/sh/BASIC/whatever code 
> can get to it immediately?  A parrotd exec would consist of: "Run this." 
>  "OK".  A #! consists of "Does this file exist?"  "Yes."  "Does it 
> work?"  "Yes."  "OK, run this."  "OK".  I contend that a properly set up 
> parrotd *should* be faster than the equivalent "each language set up 
> separately" environment.

But not quite more secure. Imagine userX running a script that does 
something nasty - like replace some command and then wait for root to 
call it. This was a very simple example, since probably parrot would 
recreate interpreters per script, but I guess it still could be possible 
since it would be the same process...

I guess it's a lot safer to just fork as it is now.

-- 
WK                                (written at Stardate 56849.3)

"Data typing is an illusion. Everything is a sequence of bytes."
                                                              -Todd Coram



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Nov 29 09:53:07 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:53:07 -0600
Subject: the real .pyc file
In-Reply-To: <cl1euucqtauss2mqebkscv24jek5r6p65f@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1038246454.8932.python-list@python.org> <3DE45656.AFCBD01B@engcorp.com> <as350j$851$0@216.39.172.122> <cl1euucqtauss2mqebkscv24jek5r6p65f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20021129085256.C4573@unpythonic.net>

This one isn't ANSI C, but fits on one line and is accepted (with
warnings) by gcc "2.96" with warnings:

x=""" ";int main(){puts("xxx");} y=" """;z=""" ";//" """ and 1//1;print"xxx"

Jeff



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Fri Nov 22 19:08:54 2002
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:08:54 -0500
Subject: Read-only attributes using properties?
References: <82c04a2.0211210527.4d1a4393@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uGzD9.1735$ed3.184990@news20.bellglobal.com>

Hi.
You might find this helpful:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/157768

Sean Ross




From DennisR at dair.com  Fri Nov  8 12:36:03 2002
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:36:03 GMT
Subject: stripping HTML comments in the face of programmer errors
References: <mailman.1036753285.20269.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7CSy9.57$443.17309754@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

> Anybody out there got a bit of code which implements a useful heuristic
for
> that case?  Ideally, stripping comments from the above would yield
I don't have code, but I do have a heuristic.  Rather than nest, I would
scan for the next token in the input stream using a two state algorithm:

Step 1: if <!-- is earliest in input, emit unprocessed text to left of <!--
and go to step 2
           if --> is earliest in input, delete unprocessed text and remain
in step 1
           if end of file is earliest in input, emit remaining unprocessed
text and exit

Step 2: if <!-- is earliest in input, delete unprocessed text including <!--
and remain in step 2
           if --> is earliest in input, delete unprocessed text
including --> and go to step 1
           if end of file is earliest in input, delete remaining unprocessed
text and exit

hth
--

Dennis Reinhardt

http://www.dair.com




From andreas.ames at tenovis.com  Thu Nov 21 05:01:08 2002
From: andreas.ames at tenovis.com (Andreas Ames)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 11:01:08 +0100
Subject: Howto wait for multiple queues (Queue.py)?
In-Reply-To: <15835.51072.893744.335565@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <87bs4kxxxs.fsf@sinon.fr.de.tenovis.com>
	<15835.51072.893744.335565@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <87fztvqm1n.fsf@sinon.fr.de.tenovis.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

> How about you maintain a single Queue which holds the other Queues?  When a
> Queue goes empty it gets removed from the main Queue.  When something is
> put() into it, it's added to the main Queue if it's not already there.  Your
> consumers then wait on the main Queue.

I think this would be another possibility which would probably look
similar to alternative 3 in my post.  My main concern is the
performance of this approach as the queue is one of *the* central
concepts in my server.


Thanks,

andreas



From dreed at capital.edu  Wed Nov  6 20:01:59 2002
From: dreed at capital.edu (Dave Reed)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:01:59 -0500
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
In-Reply-To: <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f@posting.google.com>
	(benalan@cs.bu.edu)
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <m27kfsm2x8.fsf@python.net> <aq8qbh$ik0$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1036539728.6381.python-list@python.org> <ZI6y9.77441$aL4.2400685@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036590550.21817.python-list@python.org> <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200211070101.gA711xx03741@localhost.localdomain>

> From: benalan at cs.bu.edu (Ben Wiedermann)
> Date: 6 Nov 2002 14:27:28 -0800
> 
> "Chris Gonnerman" <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036590550.21817.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> > Textbooks aren't designed to be entertaining, true; but frankly
> > I found it painful to read in the final form.  The content isn't
> > the first thing one notices about a book; rather it's the 
> > presentation (cover, art, paper, etc.)
> 
> I was one of the authors of the Deitel book; but just to be clear: I
> am speaking as a Python evangelist. I am not speaking for any of my
> coauthors or for my employer. That being said...
> 
> One of the major goals for the book was to try to push Python down
> into CS1 courses, where I believe it deserves far more consideration
> than it currently receives. Our hope was that the book would
> demonstrate to professors how well suited Python is as a first
> programming language *and* how easy it is for novice programmers to
> create more complex applications (e.g., GUI, multimedia, etc.).
> 
> However, I've noticed that most of the post-publication criticism of
> the book has focused on issues like presentation, art, etc. It's not
> my job to dispute these claims. I personally believe that an author
> should stay out of subjective discussions of his book, once that book
> has been published. But I still very much believe in the promise of
> Python in the university. And because the Deitel book is the only
> college textbook of which I am aware, I wanted to get some feedback on
> what would make a more successful Python textbook. How high does
> presentation rank when considering a book? Are there examples of other
> college textbooks that people think do an excellent job in the
> presentation department? What kinds of materials can we (as a
> community) produce to get schools to consider and adopt Python as a
> first programming language? Any other thoughts on Python in the
> university?


At the February 2002 SIGCSE conference there was a panel discussion on
using Python in the traditional CS 1 course. There were a few people
there already using it and obviously most of the other people
attending the discussion were intrigued enough to come. Everyone using
Python alread spoke very positively about it.

I've been using Python for my own projects (from short scripts to
25,000 line apps) for almost three years now and can't imagine using
anything else right for anything that wasn't extremely computationally
expensive. After attending the panel, I talked my other colleagues
into using it for our CS 1 course this fall. The only thing that
bothers me about Python for teaching is the lack of enforced private
members for classes. As an experienced programmer, I can live with
that because I know better, but I don't know whether the students will
believe me when I tell them it's a bad idea to directly access them
outside of classes :-) I also suspect this issue may prevent other
universities from seriously considering Python for introductory
courses. Every publisher rep that stopped by my office this fall had
never heard of Python and didn't think they had any Python textbooks
but most of them ended up sending me some Python book that they
published in hopes I might use it even though none of them were really
textbooks.

We're using a prepublication copy of a Python textbook written by
someone else at the SIGCSE panel discussion. I won't mention his name
or school until I check with him, but I really like his textbook. It
is not a "teach every concept of Python book", but rather a
traditional problem solving/design CS 1 textbook that uses Python. I
did take a quick look at the Deitel & Deitel book, but have to admit I
never liked any of their books for a CS 1 course and the Python one
didn't change my mind. I haven't looked at it since last spring so I
can't be very specific but the presentation style didn't do anything
for me and I think it's way too big for a CS 1 textbook - there's no
way I'm going to cover all that in CS 1 and I think the students find
it intimidating.

We were previously using C++ for our CS 1 course and have a Java
course that students could take after CS 1 and CS 2 in C++. As a side
note, I'm also teaching the Java course this semester and the more I
use Python the more I dislike Java. While I have not done any formal
studies, I can certainly say that Python is working much better than
C++ did. Fewer students have dropped and a larger percentage of
students registered for CS 2 than in past years. We did start with
fewer CS 1 students this year - I suspect mainly because the tech
downturn has discouraged those used to see CS as a quick way to get
rich and weren't really interested/excited by it.

In the past I would be swamped during office hours with students
wanting help deciphering C++ compiler errors. This semester almost
nobody has stopped by for syntax issues. The only reason they stop by
now is for problem solving/algorithm help. The indentation certainly
does not bother students who don't know any other way. The students
appear to enjoy it more and we can solve more interesting/complex
problems in Python than C++ at the CS 1 level.  Also, because of the
simpler syntax, we've been able to spend more time in class working on
problem solving and design issues.

I'm also going to use Python in CS 2. My current plans are to use a
C++ CS 2 textbook and rewrite many of the examples in Python and then
supplement other topics with my own notes and the Python version of
"How to Think Like a Computer Scientist". I will also teach them a
little C++ as we go along.

I'd love to hear from anyone else using Python in CS 1 and/or CS 2 and
I'd love to see a Python CS 2 textbook so I don't have to write one :-)

Generating a list of the colleges/universities using Python would be a
good start to possibly convincing others to give it a try.

Dave




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Nov 15 07:17:41 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:17:41 +0000
Subject: Accessing Dictionary values from within the Dictionary
References: <h10B9.797$v14.274678940@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <CqRBNUAlXO19Ewmg@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <h10B9.797$v14.274678940 at newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>, Kuros
<kuros at pgtv.net> writes
>Hi again,
>
>I have created a dictionary, like so:
>
>dict = {var1 : 0, var 2: 0}
>
>Now, i want the third key/value pair to equal the total values of var1 and 
>var2. I tried to do it this way:
>
>dict = {var1 : 1, var 2 : 2, var3 : dict[var1] + dict[var2]}
>
>But I get an invalid syntax error.
>
>Could someone help me out with this?
>
>Thanks,
>Kuros
two statements will work
dict = {var1: 0, var2: 0}
dict[var3] = dict[var1] + dict[var2]

-- 
Robin Becker


From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 13 11:40:37 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:40:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: calendar modules
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk>
Message-ID: <slrnat5dla.sc.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:38:03 +0800, Geiger Ho napisa?(a):
> well in MS Windows. When I type "calendar.month(2002,11)", it outputs a
> string
Yes, it outputs a string... for printing :)
print calendar.month(2002, 11)
    November 2002
Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa Su
             1  2  3
 4  5  6  7  8  9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30

-- 
[ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ ]
[ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) underground.org.pl  ]


From zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru  Mon Nov 25 12:43:20 2002
From: zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru (Lexy Zhitenev)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:43:20 +0300
Subject: Running scripts from C
References: <3de2458e$0$191$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <artnfp$1ck6$1@serv.vrn.ru>

> I get the exception importerror on mxDateTime.

Probably, this is because mxDateTime module uses some sort of a trick to
patch the Python environment, and this makes your program stop.

> Also strange is that the error states mxDateTime, while I use this line
for
> import:
> from mx.Datetime import * (with a dot between mx and DateTime).

I've tried some code, it worked seamlessly. Look at it, maybe there is
something me or you don't know.

---C---
#include <Python.h>

int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
  Py_Initialize();
  PyRun_SimpleString("from mx.DateTime import *\n"
                     "print MaxDateTime.Format()\n");
  Py_Finalize();
  return 0;
}
---END C---





From alessandro.bottoni at infinito.it  Sat Nov  2 03:37:06 2002
From: alessandro.bottoni at infinito.it (Alessandro Bottoni)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 09:37:06 +0100
Subject: Textbooks on Perl/Python
In-Reply-To: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com>
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200211020828.gA28S0O20256@mail2.infinito.it>

Alle 23:53, venerd? 1 novembre 2002, Jalab ha scritto:
> Greetings all,
> Any help in finding a university level textbook on the subject of
> "Scripting languages" I am mainly looking for a book that covers Perl
> and Python only as the 2 main scripting languages and that is written
> for students, i.e. chapter summary, exercises, etc. I hate to force my
> student to buy and study from two separate books.
>

I do not know about Perl (I just keep myself away from it, if possible). 
Regarding Python there are at least two very good 
beginner's level books:

Learning Python
Mark Lutz + David Ascher
O'Reilly

Learn to program using Python
Alan Gauld
Addison Wesley

Neither one of them includes exercises or any other feature specifically 
intended for university students, unfortunately.

There is also a project devoted to make Python _the_ language for educational 
purposes. You will find the related documentation at www.python.org.

BTW, this would be an opportunity to write such a book, maybe as a collective 
effort coordinated by the educational SIG (special interest group) of python, 
maybe starting from the very good book of Alan Gauld. This approach could 
cope with the small market available for the book.

(Here, I suppose you need a book devoted to programming with Perl or Python, 
not a book on creating language interpreters).

---------------------
Alessandro Bottoni




From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Fri Nov 15 00:49:23 2002
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 11:19:23 +0530
Subject: rm -rf in python?
References: <mailman.1037334801.20632.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ouy97vxtzw.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>

>>>>> "VanL" == VanL  <vlindberg at verio.net> writes:

> Is there a way (short of executing a shell command) that I can do a rm
> -rf on a directory from python?  It raises an OSError if you try to
> delete a directory that has contents.  I suppose that I could recurse
> down through, deleteing as I went, but it seems that there must be an
> easier way.

shutil.rmtree()

Ganesan

-- 
Ganesan R


From pieroul at attglobal.net  Sat Nov 30 22:25:29 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:25:29 -0500
Subject: Python exceptions: is there a way to find the exception attributes?
References: <3DE8F629.4080108@attglobal.net> <525eaba.0211301730.6c79cba0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DE98129.3040703@attglobal.net>


Pat Notz wrote:
>>Is there a way to find out about the existence of these attributes 
>>without having to read the documentation, using the dir() function or 
>>something else?
> 
> 
> You can also cast the exception into a string which -- if the
> exception class is properly designed -- should give you useful
> information.  For example:
> 
> try:
>     open('/foo.bar')
> except Exception, e:
>     print 'Exception occurred: %s' % str(e)
> 
> That's not exactly what you were asking for but maybe it'll help.


Thanks, but I am more after a quick way to get a list (at least find out 
about the list) of the attributes of the exception object without having 
to write a code snippet that would raise such an exception.  Ideally, I 
would like to write a function exceptionAttribute() that would return a 
list of strings corresponding to each attribute for a given exception.


def exceptionAttribute(theExceptionClass):
    """ returns the list of all attributes (as strings) for 
theExceptionClass"""
    # do whatever is required
    return theList




-- 
         Pierre Rouleau, ing.
         Hull, Qu?bec




From cjw at sympatico.ca  Fri Nov 22 11:18:50 2002
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:18:50 -0500
Subject: pythonwin strangeness
References: <yGaN2+ABti39EwyC@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DDE58EA.2495FE50@sympatico.ca>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20021122/9832d6bf/attachment.html>

From patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au  Sat Nov 23 23:58:57 2002
From: patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au (Patrick W)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 15:58:57 +1100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE040DF.EACC7D3A@kolumbus.fi>
Message-ID: <87bs4fef72.fsf@key.localdomain>

Martti Halminen <martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi> writes:

> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> 
> > for item in container:             ; no convienient idiom (?)
> >     print item
> 
>               - For printing the usual idiom is usually just (print
> container), though hash tables do not have a defined machine-readable
> output form. Nothing to prevent you from defining one.

And for acting upon each item within a container, the usual idiom is
(mapcar #'function list) or (map 'output-type #'function sequence).
The various mapping functions in Lisp remove a lot of the need for
explicit loops (similar to the way in which list comprehensions
replace many loops in modern Python).


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov  8 19:02:12 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:02:12 -0800
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <270c68fe.0211071328.49f8abd@posting.google.com> <3DCB2EAF.DEE7D6B6@alcyone.com> <mailman.1036768752.22350.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DCC5084.7DD4FEF3@alcyone.com>

Carel Fellinger wrote:

> Then, then:)  Some odd twenty years ago some serious money was spent
> to prove Esperanto suited to be *the interlingua* for computer based
> natural language translation.  Being readable was its main advantage:)

There is at least one automatic language translator used Esperanto (or
an additionally marked up variant) as an intermediary langauage; it
translates from the source language into Esperanto and then into the
destination language:

	http://download.travlang.com/Ergane/	

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The meaning of life is that it stops.
\__/ Franz Kafka
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Nov 21 00:14:28 2002
From: pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 06:14:28 +0100
Subject: Mirror of Python Cookbook
References: <pan.2002.11.20.17.08.46.349629.2476@thomas-guettler.de> <zns4z07b.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.21.06.14.27.681964.719@thomas-guettler.de>

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:15:52 +0100, Thomas Heller wrote:

> Thomas Guettler <pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de> writes:
> 
>> Hi!
>> 
>> Is there a mirror of the python cookbook?
>> 
>> It has a lot of great recipes, I don't want to miss them if the sever
>> is down.
> 
> The printed book works great as a mirror. Most of the time, it's also
> faster.

Sorry, I can't use grep or other IT search techniques on paper.

If the book was created by a lot of individuals, you should be
able to get the "source" for local mirroring, too.

 thomas

-- 
Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
http://www.thomas-guettler.de


From ccashman at attbi.com  Wed Nov 27 21:32:10 2002
From: ccashman at attbi.com (Colin Cashman)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 02:32:10 GMT
Subject: Skipping EOFs when using file objects?
Message-ID: <KefF9.141133$WL3.63739@rwcrnsc54>

I'm building a decoder for yEnc files, but I'm hitting premature EOF 
characters (that is, I'm only 300 or 400 bytes into the file, when the 
file size is around 950 bytes).

Is there any way, without resorting to file descriptor operations, to 
configure a file object such that it skips over those premature EOF 
characters?

-- 
I am Jack's obfuscated source code.



From Jan.Wegner at zuken.de  Mon Nov 25 07:27:06 2002
From: Jan.Wegner at zuken.de (Jan D. Wegner)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:27:06 +0100
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <3DE2171A.2000200@zuken.de>


Jan Decaluwe schrieb:
> Hi:
> 
> I'm confused by the following behavior of new-style classes
> and operators:
> 
>     class MyInt(object):
		
try:  classMyInt(int):

or MyInt isn't considered int(eger)

>         def __init__(self, val):
>             self.val = val        
>         def __getattr__(self, attr):
>             return getattr(self.val, attr)
> 
> 
> 
>>python
> 
> Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 16 2002, 19:59:11) 
> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>from MyInt import MyInt
>>>>a = MyInt(3)
>>>>a.__add__(4)
>>>
> 7
> 
>>>>a + 4
>>>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: unsupported operand types for +: 'MyInt' and 'int'
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think is can be the intention. Or can it?
> 
> Regards, Jan
> 
> --
> Jan Decaluwe
> Losbergenlaan 16
> B-3010 Leuven
> mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com


-- 
Jan Wegner          Software Engineer         Zuken GmbH
Vattmannstrasse 3                      D-33100 Paderborn
     Tel: +49 5251 150627      Fax: +49 5251 150700
----*... and may all your GUIs be fast and friendly.*----



From zunlatex at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 14 02:44:02 2002
From: zunlatex at hotmail.com (zunbeltz)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 23:44:02 -0800
Subject: os.system and wget
References: <7d728336.0211130756.3e39a748@posting.google.com> <m2isz1e84k.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <7d728336.0211132344.29be01bf@posting.google.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:<m2isz1e84k.fsf at mother.paradise.lost>...
> >>>>> "zunbeltz" == zunbeltz  <zunlatex at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
>     zunbeltz> os.system('wget -q -O foo.txt http://foo.html')
> 
> You may want to look at the popen commands:
> http://python.org/doc/current/lib/os-newstreams.html#os-newstreams.
> 
> For your example:
> 
>   import os
>   h = os.popen('wget -q -O foo1.txt http://foo.html')
>   h.close()
>   s = open('foo1.txt').read()
This didn't work. I'd an error mensage saying taht fool.txt didn't exist
But after finishing the script it was there.
> 
> Also, for the specific case of wget, python's builtin urllib can
> provide a bunch of these services
> 
>   import urllib
>   h = urllib.urlretrieve('http://foo.html', 'foo2.txt')
> 
> Or if you want to work with the returned data directly in python, you
> can use urlopen, which returns a filehandle
> 
>   h = urllib.urlopen('http://foo.html')
>   for line in h.readlines():
>      print line
> 
This has worked properly !! Thank you very much

> You can get fancier (cookies, recursive retrieval).  See websucker as
> an example python script built around urllib that has much of the wget
> functionality: http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/websucker.htm.
> If you have the python src, you'll find it in the src tree at
> Tools/webchecker/websucker.py
> 
> John Hunter

Zunbeltz


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov  5 16:46:57 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:46:57 -0600 
Subject: Need simple algorithm for newbie
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302C5E63A@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Brad Hards [mailto:bhards at bigpond.net.au]
>
> ['groups', 'goodle', 'com', '']
> >>> a[-2:]
> ['com', '']
> 
> The C way would be to test for a trailing "." and remove it 
> if present. You could do that in python too, of course.
> 
> I wondered if there was a better "more pythonic" way, knowing 
> that we don't want any empty entries from the list?
> 
> Brad
>

I don't know if it's really Pythonic, but it's fast and simple:

>>> S = 'groups.doodle.com.'
>>> S
'groups.doodle.com.'
>>> S.split('.')
['groups', 'doodle', 'com', '']
>>> filter(None, S.split('.'))
['groups', 'doodle', 'com']
>>> filter(None, S.split('.'))[-2:]
['doodle', 'com']


what 'filter(None, sequence)' does is return a new sequence with
all the elements of the original sequence which evaluate as true
(boolean).  So, since 0, None, '', 0.0, [], {}, all evaluate as
false, they wouldn't be included in the final sequence.

-gustavo



From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov  7 07:41:17 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:41:17 GMT
Subject: segmentation fault when unpickling an object in another Python instance
References: <3DC96AAD.9090503@web.de> <eAWdnTH219An7FSgXTWcqA@comcast.com> <3DC99AF6.2030906@web.de> <7h3lm45zktm.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3DCA5CB1.6060004@web.de>
Message-ID: <7h3bs51zhaf.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Raik Gruenberg <graik at web.de> writes:

> You are right, sort of. The problem is narrowed down: It, basically,
> seems impossible to unpickle a Numeric array of dictionaries (objects
> in general?) in another interpreter instance. I, nevertheless,
> submitted the bug report to the (more active) Python not the Numpy
> project. You shouldn't get a segfault, after all...

The NumPy extension is written in C.  There's not a lot Python can do
to stop bugs in NumPy segfaulting the interpreter.

> Well, I guess you could forward it to the Numpy team on grounds of [1] :)

No, *you* can -- it's your problem, after all.  I don't even have
Numeric installed on this machine, so I can't test any fix, etc.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and
  stopped right there.                                -- Steve Gonedes


From Padraig at Linux.ie  Fri Nov 29 05:12:38 2002
From: Padraig at Linux.ie (Padraig Brady)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:12:38 GMT
Subject: Regular Expressions?
References: <as79li$o6frd$1@ID-120472.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3DE73D0D.50400@Linux.ie>

KrayZee--J wrote:
> Is the Regular Expressions module really buggy or is it just me? Almost
> every expression I type in gives an error. Many expressions which I have
> tested and work in JScript give errors in python.
> 
> I want to make a RE which will match an IP address. This one works in
> JScript:
> 
> (\d{1,3}\.){3}\d{1,3}
> 
> In python it works but matches only 1 digit for the last octet of th IP ie.
> 192.168.0.100 becomes 192.168.0.1
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> John
> 
> 

$ import re
$ ips = "192.168.0.100sadfasf192.168.0.101adads324.23asdf192.168.0.102"
$ re.findall("(?:\d{1,3}\.){3}\d{1,3}", ips)
['192.168.0.100', '192.168.0.101', '192.168.0.102']

P?draig.



From raims at dot.com  Fri Nov  1 10:42:27 2002
From: raims at dot.com (Rhymes)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 16:42:27 +0100
Subject: ActivePython 2.2.1
References: <3dc29edd_2@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <s585sukt2ij0ppokgv1spsduq68u0lgo3i@4ax.com>

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:37:55 +0100, "pu" <pu at myRealBox.com> wrote:

>- is ActivePython 2.2.1 based on Python 2.2.2, or on an other version?

ActivePython 2.2.1 is based on Python 2.2.1 :)

I prefer the official distro plus win32all :)

--
Rhymes (rhymes_NOSPAM_ at myself.com)
http://www26.brinkster.com/rhymes
http://bw-crema.blogspot.com


From d_blade8 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  5 17:58:20 2002
From: d_blade8 at hotmail.com (Lemniscate)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 14:58:20 -0800
Subject: How does Python handle probing to see if a file already exist s?
References: <mailman.1036508171.27010.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7396d2b2.0211051458.1c18294b@posting.google.com>

Hi.  Before I start, I personally like Gustavo's solution.  However,
the os.path module has a ton of tools that you may want to get
familiar with currently.  Plus, there could be "issues" depending on
your code.  For example, running a directory under G.'s code:

> if os.access("some-filename", os.W_OK):
>    # neat, I can write to the file.
>    ...

will attempt to let you write to a directory like it is a file.  For
example, "Book Source" is a directory on my computer:

>>> os.access('Books Source', os.W_OK)
1
>>> # It's writable, let's try to write to it like a file
>>> file("Books Source", 'w').write("Nothing doing, here's an
error...")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'Books Source'
>>> # so, W_OK is yes, but you can't write to it

So, you see, you *may* need to do some checking.  Maybe as so...

>>> import os
>>> import os.path
>>> Possible_name = "Books Source"
>>> os.access(Possible_name, os.W_OK) and
os.path.isfile(Possible_name)
0
>>> os.access(Possible_name, os.W_OK) and os.path.isdir(Possible_name)
1
>>> # ahh, it's a dir, not a file

Just a couple of ideas so that you don't get stuck.

Chris






sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote in message news:<mailman.1036508171.27010.python-list at python.org>...
> > From: Christopher R. Culver [mailto:Kricxjo.neniuspamajxo at yahoo.com]
> > 
> > Hello all,
> > 
> > I've just begun learning Python after already getting pretty 
> > proficient in C. However, I'm having a problem with a simple
> > copying program. Ideally, the program would check to see if
> > the destination already exists and prompt the user. In this
> > this would be as easy as saying:
> > 
> > probe_destination = fopen(/usr/bin/foo, 'r')
> > if (probe_destination)
> > {
> > some code here;
> > }
> > 
> > However, translating that directly into Python doesn't work because
> > if Python can't find a file to open, it doesn't just return 0, it
> > gives an error and exits. How can I write this functionality in Python 
> > so that it returns 0 and continues, or does Python have a totally 
> > different way of handling this problem than C?
> > 
> > Christopher Culver
> >
> 
> Others have talked about the goodness of using try/except, I'll
> say to use os.access(), which is precisely for what you're asking,
> if you can read or write a file.
> 
> -- check if writeable --
> 
> import os
> if os.access("some-filename", os.W_OK):
>    # neat, I can write to the file.
>    ...
> 
> -- check if readable --
> 
> import os
> if os.access("some-filename", os.R_OK):
>    # OK, I can read from the file.
>    ...
> 
> -- check if executable --
> 
> import os
> if os.access("some-filename", os.X_OK):
>    # OK, I can execute this file.
>    ...
> 
> -- check existance --
> 
> import os
> if os.access("some-filename", os.F_OK):
>    # File exists, but I don't know what I can do with it.
>    ...
> 
> 
> You can do a bitwise OR on the flags R_OK, W_OK and X_OK to
> check combined permissions, R_OK|W_OK would check for read
> and write permission on the same file.
> 
> Exception handling is neat and all, but sometimes it just isn't
> the right way to only check for some condition.  I mean, you
> don't blindly walk into a door to see if it's locked or not.
> 
> :-)
> 
> -gustavo


From pieroul at attglobal.net  Sat Nov 16 22:44:20 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:44:20 -0500
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
Message-ID: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net>

What's the most efficient way to merge two lists inside a single one 
with the resulting list having only one instance of each element (ie not 
having two elements with the same value)?

The order of the elements is not a criteria for the selection of the 
algorithm.

Thanks

-- 
Pierre Rouleau



From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov 16 23:16:59 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:16:59 -0600
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
In-Reply-To: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net> (Pierre Rouleau's message of
 "Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:44:20 -0500")
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <m2smy0vnic.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Pierre" == Pierre Rouleau <pieroul at attglobal.net> writes:

    Pierre> What's the most efficient way to merge two lists inside a
    Pierre> single one with the resulting list having only one
    Pierre> instance of each element (ie not having two elements with
    Pierre> the same value)?

    Pierre> The order of the elements is not a criteria for the
    Pierre> selection of the algorithm.

The best way will depend on the size of the list and the type of
elements contained in each, but for Merge Lists 101, the best approach
is to use a dictionary.

If you can afford the memory consumption, the following will give
pretty good performance

l1 = [1,2,3,4]
l2 = [2,3,12,14]

m = dict( [(x,1) for x in l1+l2])
print m.keys()

If memory is an issue, you can process each list separately:

m1 = dict( [(x,1) for x in l1])
m1.update( dict( [(x,1) for x in l2]))
print m1.keys()


The solutions above require a recent version of python (2.2+).  For
older versions (<2.0), use the manual loop, which is slower but will
run on pretty much any python

m = {}
for x in l1+l2: 
    m[x]=1
print m.keys()

If performance is critical and the lists contain numeric values, take
a look at the Numeric module.

John Hunter



From neal at metaslash.com  Wed Nov  6 17:55:16 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:55:16 -0500
Subject: segmentation fault when unpickling an object in another Python instance
References: <3DC96AAD.9090503@web.de> <eAWdnTH219An7FSgXTWcqA@comcast.com> <3DC99AF6.2030906@web.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.06.22.55.15.437155.12688@metaslash.com>

On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:43:02 -0500, Raik Gruenberg wrote:

> It's not cPickle specific - I got the same segmentation fault when using
>   normal pickle.
> 
> Getting a minimum example will take some time and it can get quite long.
> I can switch off the error by deleting a line in the constructor of the
> pickled object...

Please submit a bug report.  While we prefer minimal examples,
we can't fix what we don't know about.  You can always update
the bug report with a smaller example later.

Please include the code, how to cause the seq fault, what OS,
and any other relevant info.

Thanks!

Neal


From maney at pobox.com  Mon Nov 25 23:39:58 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:39:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038267336.32150.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arutuu$cgu$2@wheel2.two14.net>

Delaney, Timothy <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
> Actually, there have been extensive studies (none of which I can quote right
> now ;) which have determined that the most common causes of errors in C/C++
> programs are simple typos

My own experience agrees with this 100% up to this point, except that
it seems not at all to be limited to C/C++.

> which are allowed by the syntax, but change the semantics of the
> program.

That part, however, does not match my own experience.  After the typos
that the compiler catches have been fixed, the "real" errors don't
include a very large percentage of =/== confusion.

> The most common of these are = vs ==, and just about anything to do with
> pointer dereferencing.

Nope, this is definitely coming from another universe.  :-/  Simple
typos that confuse pointer dereferencing?  The only thing that's coming
to mind is a bouncy '*' key, and that would result in a compile-time
error rather often.

Not, of course, that I'm not perfectly happy with not needing a lot of
this baggage for Python!


From =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?=  Fri Nov 29 14:36:27 2002
From: =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?= (=?iso-8859-5?Q?=B4=D0=DC=F8=D0=DD_=B3=2E?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:36:27 +0100
Subject: mod_python
References: <Xns92D510D3250B7bokuwatetsuo@207.217.77.26> <3de714c6$1@news.mt.net.mk> <Xns92D58A7B25737bokuwatetsuo@207.217.77.26>
Message-ID: <3de7c1bb$1@news.mt.net.mk>

>> Thats the way mod_python works. read the documentation :)
>> 
>> You have registered mptest.py to be a handler for all requests 
>> ending in ".py".
>> 
>> 
>> 

> Here's what I can gather: if I want to have another script, I have to put 
> it in a new directory and create a directive in the conf for that new 
> file.

yes, thats how it works

> That sounds so complex, clumsy and dumb that it's probably not the way. 
> How do I make every script handle itself? I tried the publisher handler, 
> and it proved useless.

The publisher handler will do what you want

> I thought about importing everything to one script from others, but that 
> isn't what I need at all. That's just pointless.

And that's the way the publisher works

> And how do I make it so typing in a directory gives me a page (index.htm) 
> instead of a list of the files in the directory? (Goes to take another 
> look at the publisher)

I dont believe that's connected to mod_python.

-- 
??????

      There are three kind of lies: lies, damn lies and benchmarks.



From polux2001 at wanadoo.fr  Mon Nov 11 10:13:13 2002
From: polux2001 at wanadoo.fr (polux)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:13:13 +0100
Subject: tetris, tron and nibbles
References: <3DCE6175.2010302@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3DCFC909.2060705@wanadoo.fr>


I made one nibbles yesterday
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From jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Nov  7 19:04:33 2002
From: jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk (Jeremy Yallop)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 00:04:33 GMT
Subject: Module names beginning w/ a digit
References: <NhCy9.700852$Ag2.26441101@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <aqev2h$9f6pi$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de>

* John E. Barham
| Why can't Python module names start a digit?

Module names are usually subject to the same rules as other
identifiers.  When you import a module in the "normal" way, its name
is bound in the current global dictionary.

|>>> import 9P
|   File "<stdin>", line 1
|     import 9P
|            ^
| SyntaxError: invalid syntax

>>> nineP = __import__('9P')

will work but it's better to use a different name if you can.

Jeremy.


From logistix at zworg.com  Tue Nov 12 17:27:26 2002
From: logistix at zworg.com (logistix)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 14:27:26 -0800
Subject: win32: own content-type --> start python script
References: <aqqrfq$a1m$04$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1037109196.20520.python-list@python.org> <aqr6fr$t0m$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bdb5b58f.0211121427.138c054b@posting.google.com>

> 
> Sorry, I think you missunderstood me:
> I don't want to execute python scripts in the browser,
> I want to pass a own data format to a script on the
> client.
> 
> The data format has the following format:
> 
> """
> user=foo
> password=foo
> server=http://foo.com/uploadFiles
> EOD
> Here comes the binary data ......
> """
> 
> I only want to like the fileextension/content-type
> to the script on the client. The client reads the
> header (until EOD) and then starts ms-office with
> the binary data.
> 
> I think it just needs some entries in the registry: like
> ".doc" is linked to "C:\programms\....\winword.exe".
> 
> If the file changed the script uploads it to the server.
> 
> We do this because WebDAV is not stable, and need some
> easy way to integrate ms-office into a web-application.
> 
>   thomas


HKCR\MIME\Database\Content Type\

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/components/activex/registration.asp

"Registering MIME Types" would be a good place to start searching.

You might also want to consider bypassing IE and using Python's socket
module (depending on business requirements) to manipulate the info
directly.


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Tue Nov 26 23:42:15 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:42:15 +1300
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org> <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3DE44D27.3030904@something.invalid>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> I don't understand why list comprehensions are
> touted as a replacement for reduce and lambda.  I use lamba
> almost exclusively to generate anonymous functions that are
> passed to GUI widgets.  How does a list comprehension solve
> that problem?


It doesn't. A list comprehension is a replacement
for map+lambda or filter+lambda -- nobody claims that
it replaces *all* uses of lambda. And it doesn't
replace reduce at all -- we've yet to see a construct
proposed to do that (aside from writing it out as
an explicit loop).

In the case of lambda, however, you can always get
the same effect using an explicitly declared function,
bound method, etc. So lambda isn't really  needed
anyway, regardless of whether list comprehensions
exist.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From dodo_imp at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 14 15:32:09 2002
From: dodo_imp at hotmail.com (Luca Bruderer)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:32:09 +0100
Subject: Serial Port
Message-ID: <DAV61i0JhsgVy134IpL00004da5@hotmail.com>

Hello

How can I read and send information through a serial port for a custom keyboard I would like to build.

Thanks 
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From juha.o.ylitalo at kolumbus.fi  Thu Nov 14 01:09:22 2002
From: juha.o.ylitalo at kolumbus.fi (juha.o.ylitalo at kolumbus.fi)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 22:09:22 -0800
Subject: xml.dom.minidom.parse(fname).save() still complains about UnicodeError...
Message-ID: <6acfe44e.0211132209.2f07dd2f@posting.google.com>

Platform: RedHat Linux 8.0
Python: python 2.2.1 from RedHat as well as 
        python 2.2.2, which I compiled from source.

I am trying to create small script, which would simply parse existing
XML file, add some new information in and write back to file. When I
started to troubleshoot my problem, I ended up with following problem:

[jylitalo at shoes jylitalo]$ /usr/local/bin/python
Python 2.2.2 (#1, Nov 13 2002, 23:25:41)
[GCC 3.2 20020903 (Red Hat Linux 8.0 3.2-7)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import xml.dom.minidom
>>> d = xml.dom.minidom.parse("catalog.phojo")
>>> print d.toxml()

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
>>>

File itself has non-english letters in it and it is supposed to be
UTF-8 encoded. What makes this problem very weird is that I have
separate script, which has graphical userinterface, etc. I am able to
do all kind of parse that same DOM tree, rebuild it and successfully
write it down to same file without any UTF-8 complains (I use
prettyxml when I save new DOM tree).
When I searched around with google, I came up with similar kind of
problems, but only ones that really matched my case required some
patching to StringIO module to work. Is this still the case or have I
simply missed something....

--
juha.o.ylitalo at kolumbus.fi


From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Nov 11 15:44:19 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:44:19 +0100
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
In-Reply-To: <m34raoneo6.fsf@localhost.localdomain>; from paul.rudin@ntlworld.com on Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 06:29:13PM +0000
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037014155.15486.python-list@python.org> <uel9sryab.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037025979.11547.python-list@python.org> <u4raorv6r.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037031266.12200.python-list@python.org> <m34raoneo6.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20021111214419.X30315@prim.han.de>

Paul Rudin wrote:
> >>>>> "holger" == holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:
> 
> 
> 
>  holger>  Is there an obvious killer use case?  IOW can you
>  holger> state a problem where the use of a ternary operator comes in
>  holger> really handy?  Sorry if this sounds dumb to you but i am interested.
> 
> I'm not sure it's that big a deal, but looking back over some of the
> bits and pieces I wrote over the weekend there are a number of code
> fragments that follow this kind of pattern:

let's see.

> def foo(x,y,...):
>     acc=func1(x,y....)
>     if some_test:
>        acc = acc+func2(x,y...)
>     else:
>        acc = acc+func3(x,y...)
>     return acc

if you are doing this often of course you could write a helper...  but 

> Personally I'd  prefer to be able to write something like:
> 
> def foo(x,y,....):
>    return func1(x,y,..) + 
>           if some_test:
>               func2(x,y...) 
>           else:
>               func3(x,y..)

def foo(*args):
    return func1(*args) + (func2,func3)[not some_test](*args)

might do what you want. (*args expresses "all positional arguments")

cheers,

    holger



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Nov  5 13:29:34 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 19:29:34 +0100
Subject: How to create a unary operator?
References: <H5471x.EyL@news.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <j4k7jrhnu9.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Joe Sixpack" <joe.sixpack at whoopie.com> writes:

> Is it possible to create a unary operator on a class object by
> redefining an existing operator symbol?  If so, how?

You can implement existing unary operators, by means of special
methods (e.g. __neg__). You cannot add new operators to the language.

> For example, I'd like to create a new class, MyClass, and use the
> symbol '^' to call a method in that class.  The '^' is a standard
> symbol in the domain of the problem that I'm working in, so I'd like
> to use that symbol instead of a different one, if at all possible.

Sorry, that's not possible. Use methods instead.

Regards,
Martin


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov  6 09:42:44 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:42:44 GMT
Subject: regex puzzle
References: <3dc91095$1_1@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <ET9y9.78516$aL4.2423622@news1.tin.it>

Mike Brown wrote:

> I need an example of a regular expression that:
> 
> - matches an empty string
> - matches a non-empty string
> - does NOT match a string consisting of only a linefeed
> 
> So, this test should produce [1, 1, 0]...
> 
> import re
> pat = '^(.+)?$' # FIXME
> [(re.search(pat, s) is not None) for s in ['', 'foo', '\n']]

import re
pat = r'\A(?!\n\Z)'
print [(re.search(pat, s) is not None) for s in 
       ['', 'foo', '\n', '\n\n' ]]

The "this test should produce" request can be satisfied without
the \Z, but I think you mean that '\n\n' should match (as it
doesn't consist of only a linefeed, but of two of them), and
for that you do need the \Z in the negative-lookahead assertion.


Alex



From deltapigz at telocity.com  Mon Nov 11 22:48:05 2002
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:48:05 -0500
Subject: Help with searching a list
References: <8d3e714e.0211111913.2e0964c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3dd079f3_5@nopics.sjc>

you can do:

l3 = [ ['hello',5], ['bye',2] ]
print l3

for l4 in l3:
    if 'bye' in l4:
        print 'yes'
    else:
        pass # else ...

or alternatively (maybe a bit more confusing):

l3 = [ ['hello',5], ['bye',2] ]
print l3
print ['yes' for l4 in l3 if 'bye' in l4][0]

also go through the tutorial completely:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html

hope this helps.

Adonis

"Tony C" <cappy2112 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8d3e714e.0211111913.2e0964c3 at posting.google.com...
> Python newbie needs help with searching a list of lists.
>
> What is the correct way for search a list of lists ?
>
>
> import os
> os.system('cls')
>
> l3 = [ ['hello',5], ['bye',2] ]
> print l3
> print 2 in l3
>
> if 'bye' in l3:
> print 'yes'
> else:
> print 'no'
>
> if 44 in l3:
> print 'yes'
> else:
> print 'no'
>
> This is what is printed
>
> [ ['hello',5], ['bye',2] ]
> 0
> no
> no
>
>
> thanks




From theller at python.net  Thu Nov 14 15:35:53 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 21:35:53 +0100
Subject: Supporting older Python versions in py2exe?
Message-ID: <isyzubx2.fsf@python.net>

I'm currently working on a major new release of py2exe, but I would
like to drop support for older Python versions, at least 1.5.2.

Myself I'm only using Python 2.2 with it's new killer features;-)

So, can support be dropped for 1.5.2?

Thanks,

Thomas


From x0phe at netscape.net  Fri Nov  1 15:34:43 2002
From: x0phe at netscape.net (Christophe)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 12:34:43 -0800
Subject: Abort in garbage collector in 2.2.2
Message-ID: <871c2723.0211011234.6d807ec0@posting.google.com>

I'm getting this error while sourcing some scripts in python 2.2.2:

Assertion failed: STILL_A_CANDIDATE(op), file
python/Modules/gcmodule.c, line 366

The stack trace shows this:

  ---- called from signal handler with signal 6 (SIGABRT) ------
  [10] __sigprocmask(0x0, 0xfcdfe400, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0), at
0xfe7d9794
  [11] _resetsig(0xfe7dbf6c, 0x0, 0x0, 0xfce03d70, 0xfe7ee000, 0x0),
at 0xfe7ce9a0
  [12] _sigon(0xfce03d70, 0xfe7f5938, 0x6, 0xfcdfe4d4, 0xfce03d70,
0x1), at 0xfe7ce140
  [13] _thrp_kill(0x0, 0x8, 0x6, 0xfe7ee000, 0x8, 0x6), at 0xfe7d1180
  [14] raise(0x6, 0x6, 0xfcdfe598, 0x0, 0x6, 0x0), at 0xfdacb758
  [15] abort(0xfdb3a000, 0x71f91ef0, 0x76, 0x7efefeff, 0x81010100,
0xff00), at 0xfdab5a3c
  [16] __assert(0xfea2cab4, 0xfea2cacc, 0x16e, 0xfea2cacc, 0xa5ae58,
0x1a8), at 0xfdab5d20
  [17] delete_garbage(0xfcdfe918, 0xfea54c70, 0xa5b4c0, 0xa5b550,
0x1a9, 0xa5b558), at 0xfe9296b0
  [18] collect(0xfea54c60, 0xfea54c70, 0xfdb3a000, 0xfdac1a9c,
0xa5b4b8, 0x0), at 0xfe929a0c
  [19] collect_generations(0x0, 0xfdb40880, 0xa5c010, 0xa5c410, 0x251,
0xa5c418), at 0xfe929e74
  [20] _PyObject_GC_Malloc(0xfea50ac8, 0x0, 0xfdb3a000, 0xfdac1a9c,
0xa5c008, 0x0), at 0xfe92b114
  [21] _PyObject_GC_New(0xfea50ac8, 0x0, 0xc, 0xfdac1a9c, 0x0, 0x0),
at 0xfe92b1a4
  [22] PyDict_New(0xa4bad8, 0x3e8, 0xffffffff, 0x0, 0x0, 0xa5c010), at
0xfe90a870
  [23] com_init(0xfcdfec6c, 0xfeaae2a4, 0xa1f930, 0x0, 0xfb9e0b15,
0x4b728), at 0xfe8ecd80
  [24] jcompile(0xc7bc8, 0xfeaae2a4, 0xfcdff05c, 0x0, 0x50696e67,
0x676c6f62), at 0xfe8fbbcc
  [25] icompile(0xc7bc8, 0xfcdff05c, 0x13c, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0), at
0xfe8fbb50
  [26] com_classdef(0xfcdff05c, 0xc7bc8, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x4), at
0xfe8f9b20
  [27] com_node(0xfcdff05c, 0xa59ad8, 0xfcdfeed8, 0xfcdfeed4,
0x616c0000, 0xa5b3a0), at 0xfe8f9d84
  [28] com_file_input(0xfcdff05c, 0xc7dc8, 0x0, 0xfcdfef70,
0x688e9fc4, 0xa5ac60), at 0xfe8fad10
  [29] compile_node(0xfcdff05c, 0xc7dc8, 0x1, 0xfea55710, 0xfea578d4,
0x7), at 0xfe8fb500
  [30] jcompile(0xc7dc8, 0xfeaae2a4, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x5f), at
0xfe8fbd58
  [31] PyNode_CompileFlags(0xc7dc8, 0xfeaae2a4, 0x0, 0xfcdff1fc, 0x0,
0x0), at 0xfe8fb954
  [32] run_node(0xc7dc8, 0xfeaae2a4, 0x85f020, 0xa5b220, 0x0, 0x8), at
0xfe997f88
  [33] run_err_node(0xc7dc8, 0xfeaae2a4, 0x85f020, 0xa5b220, 0x0,
0xff00), at 0xfe997f00
  [34] PyRun_String(0xa59a84, 0x101, 0x85f020, 0xa5b220, 0x9d7e28,
0x0), at 0xfe997a24
  [35] exec_statement(0x296360, 0xa59a70, 0xfea5b584, 0xfea5b584, 0x3,
0xffffffff), at 0xfe8db484
  [36] eval_frame(0xfea5b584, 0xfea5b584, 0x0, 0x0, 0x55, 0x99ea35),
at 0xfe8d186c
  [37] PyEval_EvalCodeEx(0x99ed30, 0x85f020, 0x2964d0, 0x2964ac, 0x0,
0x296360), at 0xfe8d6034
(...)


Any idea what could cause this?

Thanks,
Christophe.


From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  8 09:33:22 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:33:22 -0000
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
References: <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <usnipihg3okna2@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list at python.org>,
Dave Brueck  <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Dave Reed wrote:
>
>> I've been using Python for my own projects (from short scripts to
>> 25,000 line apps) for almost three years now and can't imagine using
>> anything else right for anything that wasn't extremely computationally
>> expensive. After attending the panel, I talked my other colleagues
>> into using it for our CS 1 course this fall. The only thing that
>> bothers me about Python for teaching is the lack of enforced private
>> members for classes. As an experienced programmer, I can live with
>> that because I know better, but I don't know whether the students will
>> believe me when I tell them it's a bad idea to directly access them
>> outside of classes :-)
>
>Who cares if they believe you though, and why should they anyway? Part of
>becoming a good programmer is getting bit by taking shortcuts (over doing
>it the "right" way), learning from it, and moving on - and it's a great
>thing to learn through experience that the prof might actually know what 
>he's talking about! :)
>
>> I also suspect this issue may prevent other universities from seriously
>> considering Python for introductory courses.
>
>Yeah, but in reality it shouldn't. Up-and-coming programmers routinely
>ignore what we consider to be even the most basic best practices. I mean,
>what first year (or any year, for that matter!) languages force people to
>use good variable names, limit their use of global variables, avoid magic
>numbers, and stay away from creating 1000-line functions?
>
>Anyway, it was exciting for me to read your observations so far from using
>Python at the university level, especially the idea that more
>problem-solving time is being spent in "algorithm space" than "syntax
>space" (which shouldn't surprise me since that's the experience Python
>users tend to have). I'd love to hear more of what you learn as time goes
>on - please keep posting!
>
>-Dave
>
>

There's a real range in university courses.  Indeed,
a depressing number of them are still stuck at syntax
level.

Dave Reed, are you serious that decision-makers dis-
qualify Python for the lack of enforced private 
members?  Should I take it that they equally proscribe
(conventionally pre-processed) C and C++?

That sounds more hostile than I mean to be.  Alex,
maybe you can help me articulate this.  Just as it's
taken a while for the discipline to catch on that 
static type checking (as in C and Java) is an impo-
verished proxy for real validation, I have hopes
that we can eventually raise programmers' vision of
what constitutes good support for teamwork and re-use
from its present regard on misapplied encapsulation.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Mon Nov 25 10:38:11 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:38:11 -0600
Subject: if <assignment>:
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302F2C279@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Andr? N?ss [mailto:andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no]
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 8:00 AM
> 
> When I started learning Python one of the things that 
> surprised me was that you couldn't do assignments inside
> the if clause, e.g.:
> 
> if myvar = someFunction():
>

Why does it surprise you?

Most all languages, except those of C descent, don't
have if <assignment>.

-gustavo



From pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr  Sat Nov 16 07:39:51 2002
From: pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr (Pedro Rodriguez)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:39:51 +0000
Subject: wrapping all class methods
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com> <mailman.1037385864.30209.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.16.12.39.49.262808.1346@club-internet.fr>

Apologies if this is off-topic.

>                 try:
>                         origMethod(*args, **kwargs)

This should be:
                         return origMethod(*args, **kwargs)

>                 except:
Shouldn't you catch the actual exception:

                  except Exception, e:

in order to let it go its way up at the end of the exception block:
                          raise e

Notice that by doing so I get the following trace:

$ python2.2 tbwrap.py
real f 1
[A.f]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "tbwrap.py", line 5, in wrap_traceback_method
    return origMethod(*args, **kwargs)
  File "tbwrap.py", line 36, in f
    assert x>=0
AssertionError
stack info
name:L2 file:tbwrap.py co_lno:39 lasti:43 f_lno:42
name:L1 file:tbwrap.py co_lno:43 lasti:9 f_lno:44
name:L0 file:tbwrap.py co_lno:45 lasti:9 f_lno:46
name:? file:tbwrap.py co_lno:1 lasti:138 f_lno:47
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "tbwrap.py", line 47, in ?
    L0()
  File "tbwrap.py", line 46, in L0
    L1()
  File "tbwrap.py", line 44, in L1
    L2()
  File "tbwrap.py", line 42, in L2
    a.f(-1)
  File "tbwrap.py", line 17, in wrap_traceback_method
    raise e
AssertionError

Pedro


From duncan at rcp.co.uk  Fri Nov 29 04:39:52 2002
From: duncan at rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:39:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: the real .pyc file
References: <mailman.1038246454.8932.python-list@python.org> <3DE45656.AFCBD01B@engcorp.com> <as350j$851$0@216.39.172.122> <cl1euucqtauss2mqebkscv24jek5r6p65f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92D5637B8E4ACduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>

Wolfgang Strobl <wks000 at t-online.de> wrote in
news:cl1euucqtauss2mqebkscv24jek5r6p65f at 4ax.com: 

> Well, a while ago my employer got acquired, so I used the folllowing
> four liner as a signature for a while.
> 
> #define print void main(){ printf(
> print "signature under construction"
> #define pass );}
> pass
> 
> I'd like to know whether it's doable in less than four lines. :-)

Well, you could trivially cut it down to two line:

#define print(s) void main(){ printf(s); }
print ("signature under construction")

although, of course, your 'void main' isn't actually legal, nor do you
define printf (and since it takes a variable number of arguments calling
it without defining it gives undefined behaviour), so I think you really
need three lines: 

#include <stdio.h>
#define print(s) int main(){ printf(s); return 0; }
print("signature under construction")



From roy at panix.com  Fri Nov 15 09:16:59 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 09:16:59 -0500
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org> <adkbqbc4.fsf@python.net> <7h3u1ijvv9q.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <vg2zoru4.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <ar2vkr$oip$1@panix2.panix.com>

Thomas Heller  <theller at python.net> wrote:
> Ok, you need a core library of system calls, but then you go.

Depends on what you're trying to do.  If you're writing an application
to run on top of an operating system, then yes, you need a library of
system calls.  But, even at that, most system call libraries are a
very thin layer which do little more than put arguments on the stack
in the right format and execute some flavor of trap instruction.

But, there are plenty of things you might want to do with C which do
not involve any sort of system call library at all.  You might be
writing an embedded system which runs directly on top of the hardware.
Or, you might be writing an operating system itself, or a device
driver.  It's a pity that most people don't ever get to do either of
those.  You miss out on some good experiences by never getting to
touch the hardware directly.


From ral at spongebob.corporate.com  Mon Nov 11 15:29:21 2002
From: ral at spongebob.corporate.com (Ron Lau)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:29:21 -0600
Subject: Is python a good choice for this task?
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.11.20.29.19.704887.2239@spongebob.corporate.com>

Hi,

This IS NOT a request for someone to write a program for me. (But I won't
turn it down :)  ).  The only programming I ever did was FORTRAN >:P , and short shell
scripts. I'm just looking for advice.


I have a CFD program that takes a text file as input (Q1.1). I run it on the
command line as:

phoe Q1.1

which outputs the binary file PH.1


I also have a program that gives me a number as the last line of its
output to the terminal with the command

pointquerey  PH.1 TempK 1 1 1 | tail -1


What I do now is compare the output of the line above to the value I want
it to be, then change a parameter in the Q1.1 file, say T1=500.0

I would like to write something that would Goal Seek this for me.
(something simple like a newtonian method)

So I would need a program to..
--------------------------

run the command "phoe Q1.1"

then run the command "pointquery PH.1 TempK 1 1 1 | tail -1"

read the output of the above and compare to the desired value.

calculate a better value of T1.

replace T1=oldvalue in the file Q1.1 with the calculated value from
above.

loop back to the beginning...

-------------------------


My question is, What language is best suited for this? Perl, Python, or
shell scripts?


TIA!

ral


From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Nov 18 18:44:25 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:44:25 +0100
Subject: return values for exceptions
In-Reply-To: <slrnat0g6s.2pf.nthomas@shine.cise.ufl.edu>; from nthomas@cise.ufl.edu on Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 11:44:29PM +0000
References: <slrnat0g6s.2pf.nthomas@shine.cise.ufl.edu>
Message-ID: <20021119004425.B11257@prim.han.de>

N. Thomas wrote:
> I notice that user defined Python exceptions always return a value of 1 to
> the shell. I'd like to return different values in my program, depending on
> the exception, is there any way to do this?
> 
> I suppose that I could trap the exception, and then return a value based on
> that, but I'm not too sure if that is the right way to go about doing it.

IMO it's quite right.  You could also derive from SystemExit:

>>> class MyEx(SystemExit):
        pass

>>> raise MyEx(12)   # this cleanly exists
$ echo $?
12

regards,
    
    holger



From tundra at tundraware.com  Thu Nov 14 20:00:07 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 01:00:07 GMT
Subject: Possible Win32 Tkinter bug?
Message-ID: <mpg1ra.2s9.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

Hmmm, this is a strange one:

I have Tkinter program which works pretty much as I want. Among the
things it does at startup time is to first establish the main UI and
then optionally use a tkMessageBox.showwarning() to let the user know if
there is a problem with the contents of a config file. After the user
presses OK, the warning disappears and only the main UI window is
left.

Under X, this works just fine. Under Win32 the program works fine if no
warning message box every appears. However, if a warning is displayed,
the main UI never gets focus back after the user presses OK on the
message box. I have to select on a completely separate Win32 window or
the Desktop and then back to the main UI before I get focus back
to the widget in the Tk application again.

If I had this problem in both environments I would rapidly assume it
is my poor understanding of Tkinter that is the problem.  However,
since it works fine in one environment and not the other, it would
suggest several possibilities:

	1) A Tkinter/Python problem on Win32 (python 2.2.2 on Win2K SP3)
	2) Strange Win32 semantics which I am not accommodating
	3) Stupid coding on my part only revealed on Win32...

Has anyone seen this before?



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From costanza at web.de  Tue Nov 12 17:16:25 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:16:25 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <3DCD8571.6CACEA04@alcyone.com> <ud6pe48gl.fsf@online.no> <aqkaeq$7de$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3DCF2127.8080602@something.invalid> <3DCF8787.9000607@web.de> <3DD091A3.8070608@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <aqrujp$ka0$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> Pascal Costanza wrote:
> 
>> Greg Ewing wrote:
>>
>>> Python still goes one better, because (for user-defined
>>> methods at least) you can supply arguments by keyword even
>>> if they *haven't* been declared that way!
>>
>>
>> No problem.
>>
>> (defun paint (&key on at &allow-other-keys)

> 
> No, I was talking about the way you can do
> 
>   def f(x, y):
>      ...
> 
> and call it as
> 
>   f(y = 42, x = 17)
> 
> In other words, you don't have to know when you write
> the function that you're going to want to call it with
> keywords later -- you just do it.

Ah, I see - that's indeed very nice!


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 18:26:04 2002
From: shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com (Richard Dillingham)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:26:04 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net> <3dd973b6$0$4438$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <gGeC9.17356$0U1.1722393@news2.east.cox.net>

> Not really...  ()s don't have anything particularly to do with
> tuples.  The comma is the tupple constructor operator: a,c is a
> tuple (a,c) is the same tuple with parens around it.

Hm.
Perhaps from __future__ import combinedcomparisons

Also, if a,b==c,d doesn't work, I get an error:
    if a,b==c,d: print a
        ^
    SyntaxError: invalid syntax

The ^ is under the comma.
So it's not assuming those are tuples, it's saying "WTH are you using a
comma in an if statement for? Stop that! That tickles!"

Whereas if (a,b)==(c,d): print a
DOES work.

So again, for if-statements, this looks like it could be done, unless the
CVS version makes it recognize ,s in if statements as being for tuples.




From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 01:02:40 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:02:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as1n60$dkg$2@wheel2.two14.net>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> proof that the language is broken in that area. We don't say, "Is Tuesday 
> today?" or "Is 5 your age?", either. :)

Is it Tuesday today?

The other one is not the most common form, but I don't have any trouble
at all imagining using it - especially with a number around five, a
great age for grammatical experimentation.  :-)



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov  6 18:14:35 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 00:14:35 +0100
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list@python.org> <Pnfy9.2862$h%5.101642@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <m3fzuemgtg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:

> > Write it in a platform-independent way.  If you *intended* this literal to
> > mean "a 1 bit followed by 31 zero bits", then stick an L on the end of the
> > literal.
> 
> ...and remove it again when you get to Python 2.5.

Why that?

Regards,
Martin


From rmunn at pobox.com  Thu Nov  7 10:53:19 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:53:19 GMT
Subject: newbie re question
References: <1osisu81483e4k3j905dun6diio6rt29ao@4ax.com> <sFfy9.2868$h%5.101793@newsb.telia.net> <i63jsu03dv3machun6gufu7kp95h44a3ec@4ax.com> <aqcruj$dmn$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <slrnasl3bj.3cj.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 at 04:58 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:52:45 +0000, Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
> 
>>On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:17:12 GMT, "Fredrik Lundh"
>><fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been trying to grok re's and settled myself a little exercise:
>>>> concoct a re for a Python identifier.
>>>>
>>>> Now what I got is
>>>>
>>>> >>> pattern = re.compile(r'(\s|^)([\w_][\w\._]*)(\s|$)')
>>>> >>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
>>>> [('', 'aadf', ' '), (' ', 'b', ' '), (' ', 'aasa', ' '), (' ', 'aa', '> '), (' ', 'aa_aa', ' ')]
>>>>
>>>> But as you can see from the results, not all valid identifiers get
>>>> caught. For example, why isn't 'cdase' caught?
>>>
>>>findall returns non-overlapping matches.  there's only a single space
>>>between "aadf" and "cdase", and that was used by the first match.
>>
>>Typical newbie error - forgot that it consumed the next char. And I do
>>want all the non overlapping matches.
>>
>>>
>>>here's a better pattern:
>>>
>>>    pattern = re.compile(r'\b([a-zA-Z_]\w*)\b')
>>>
>>></F>
>>>
>>
>>OK, I revamped a little your pattern but know I get too many matches,
>>e.g.
>>
>>>>> pattern = re.compile(r'\b([a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z_\.]*)\b')
>>>>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
>>['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'ad', 'aa', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'a', 'aa', '_aa',
>>'_aafr', 'aa_aa', 'aa__a', 'jk']
>>
>>I want the re to reject 'ad:aa', 'a@', etc. which are not valid
>>identifiers. In the first case it returned 'ad' and 'aa' because \b
>>matched '@' and I do *not* want that.
>>
>>I also tried using a not-match-lookahead as in
>>
>>>>> pattern = re.compile(r'([a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z_\.]*)(?![^a-zA-Z_\.\s])')
>>>>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
>>['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'a', 'aa', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'aa', '_aa', '_aaf',
>>'aa_aa', 'aa__', 'jk']
>>
>>But as you see, it does not work either. In 'ad:aa' returns the matches
>>'a' and 'aa' - and I understand why it does - it just keeps backtracking
>>until you get match.
>>
>>I'm beaten. Can any1 help me out here?
>>
> Does this do what you want? (I don't know what other characters you are concerned with
> besides [:@?])
> 
> >>> pattern = re.compile(r'\b((?<![:@?])[a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z_\.]*(?![:@?]))\b')
> >>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
>  ['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'aa', '_aa', 'aa_aa']
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

This whole discussion is starting to remind me of a quote that I used to
have hanging on my cubicle wall:

    Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use
    regular expressions." Now they have two problems.
                                                       - Jamie Zawinski

Are re's really what you need to use here? Correct me if I'm wrong, but
it looks like what you're trying to do is split the string into words
with a regexp, then apply rules about which characters may or may not be
part of the word. For the first part of that, why not use ''.split()?
Then search the list of words with a much simpler regexp:

>>> import re
>>> pattern = re.compile(r'^[a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z_\.]*$')
>>> list_to_search = 'aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk'.split()
>>> list_to_search
['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'ad:aa', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'a@', 'aa', '_aa', '_aafr@', 'aa_aa', 'aa__a?jk']
>>> result_list = [item for item in list_to_search if pattern.match(item)]
>>> result_list
['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'aa', '_aa', 'aa_aa']

(My apologies for the more-than-80-chars lines here).

My rule of thumb: if a regular expression takes more than ten seconds to
grok *in its entirety*, it's too complicated, and another solution
should be sought. Now sometimes there won't be an elegant solution and
you wind up having to use a complicated regexp, but usually just trying
to think about other solutions will help clarify the problem in your
mind.

BTW, the Jamie Zawinski quote above came from a Slashdot discussion:

    http://slashdot.org/articles/99/06/01/2122209.shtml

Scroll up about one or two pages from the bottom of the article to find
the post in which that quote appears.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sun Nov 24 19:46:22 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 00:46:22 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE040DF.EACC7D3A@kolumbus.fi>
Message-ID: <yfsbs4ebhnl.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Martti Halminen <martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi> writes:

> - LOOP isn't the only iteration construct: I use usually DOTIMES, DOLIST
> or the mapping functions for simple cases. The old DO also exists for
> oldtimers.

Sure, loop isn't the only iteration construct, but that doesn't really make it
any better, does it? Especially given that all suffer from the fact that they
only work on a quite small number of containers.

> Except that those are rather new languages in comparision, from a time
> the machine performance had already risen to acceptable values. For
> comparision, at the time Lisp Machines were the fastest workstations on
> the planet, they had clock frequencies like 4 MHz. The competition ran
> 16 MHz Motorola 68020:s.
> (Cray 1 had 80 MHz, IIRC.)

This seems a curious argument to me: Ansi CL is about 1994, so it is actually
newer than python and perl. The fact that things called "lisp" had been around
before than should only have made it easier (bigger potential user base,
greater maturity, efficient compilers etc.) for CL to compete against those
newcomers.

> 
> No such thing as "iteration class" in the language: Lisp had already
> existed for a quarter century before it got a standardized object system
> (plenty of non-standard, non-compatible versions before that), so the
> control flow constructs are rather othogonal to the object system.

Sure, but a reason is not an excuse (there are also plenty of reasons why C++
OO leaves much to be desired :)

> 
>  
> > Now if you want to define you own collection classes, you're really in for a
> > hard time:
> 
> I fail to see what is so hard in that. Obviously you have to design your
> own wrapper class if you want similar behaviour from different data
> structures, given that the language doesn't have it built-in, but as you
> yourself show, any given operation is only a few lines.

But that is besides the point. The python ``x = cont[indx]`` will likely
continue to work even if I choose to replace ``cont`` with some other
container type later. Same for ``for i in cont: ...`` etc. This is a fairly
important abstraction barrier.


OTOH ``(let ((x (gethash key hash)) won't. T Sure, I could go along and define
my own generic accesor functions (CL is powerful enough for that) just like
everyone defines their own module and OO system in scheme (scheme is powerful
enough for that).


>                                      ;; *why* this arg-order?
>                Why not? It is consistent with most of the language, [...]
> ELT probably for similarity with AREF.

Well, if you prefer then elt is inconsistent :)





>               - For printing the usual idiom is usually just (print
> container), though hash tables do not have a defined machine-readable
> output form. Nothing to prevent you from defining one.

The print statement was just to have some body for the loop. The equivalent
idiom in python is repr(container) (potentially eval'able) or str(container)
(more human readable).

> For that matter, it is a macro, and sources are available, so expanding
> it to handle anything else you wish is possible, with no runtime
> performance implications. Not that many wish: it is quite sufficiently

Well maybe in theory, but not in practice. The LOOP macro is 

A) vendor specific, if I'm not mistaken. Although you could certainly get your
   hands on a portable LOOP implementation, doing so might not be without risk
   (for one the semantics might be subtly different, esp. given that LOOP is
   often thought to be underspecified)

B) a little complex (a mere 37k for the CMU implementation), so that fiddling
   with it is hardly for the faint of heart.

> complex already for most people.

Well yes, but not sufficiently general. The for loop in python is not complex,
but more general in that it takes an infinite variety of container classes
(including lazy ones, which obviously adds expressiveness). And I should
suspect that people would actually like to extend loop if it weren't such a
nightmare (also note that e.g. emacs's (cl) LOOP *is* extended).

> 
> > Similarly, functions like
> > concatenate only know about lists and arrays (which all can't even be
> > subclassed, right?).
> - Strings too, as a subclass of arrays. As that was about all
> system-defined types with sensible semantics for concatenation, I don't
> know what you are missing. I've never had any reason to wish subclass
> built-in types, so I don't see it as a problem.

Well, the python developers also thought that not being able to subclass
builtin types wouldn't be a problem. When they realized that the difference
between (builtin) types and classes was actually quite a problem they had to
put in quite some effort to redeem the situation. Admittedly, the situation is
a bit different for python (e.g. because you can write methods for classes you
don't "own" in CL). But why shouldn't one want to have e.g. a hash-table that
always returns a default key instead of nil, just as a trivial example?

 
> To some extent this is a style difference in language usage: you seem to
> want something like C++ -style overloading, making your own
> constructions to hide in built-in behaviours. Most CL programmers are
> happy to leave the language built-in parts alone (unless explicitly
> defining a new language for some reason), and defining their own stuff
> with different names, thereby reducing surprises for readers. In reading
> somebody's C++ code I can never guess what + does this week, reading CL
> I can be relatively safe assuming (+ a b) sums numbers, (plus a b) is
> probably my own matrix multiplication stuff in my code [unless it
> happened to be old Maclisp stuff...].

I think you are conflating conflation and abstraction here :)

Overloading `+` to perform concatenation as well as addition is IMHO a really
stupid idea, because they have entirely different semantics (and you can even
end up with cases where you'd really like to have both concatenation and
addition on the same type: e.g. numerical arrays).

Unified item access, setting and deletion OTOH is an abstraction and thus
helps to produce better code. If you disagree, try replacing all instances of
SETF in your code with SETQ. Or better yet, all instances of (+ float float)
with (+. float float), a la ocaml :)

> 
> Now what tools did Python have to define your own control flow
> constructs ? :-)

Well, for some cases where lispers think you'd need macros the iteration
protocol and generators are actually enough (and, I guess, also better). Of
course there are quite a few things you can conveniently do with macros that
are awkward in python and CL has many cool things python hasn't -- but I
really think iteration and containers are better done in python.

alex


From treworn at cyberspace.org  Mon Nov  4 20:02:54 2002
From: treworn at cyberspace.org (trewornan)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 01:02:54 +0000
Subject: loggin out automatically
References: <1036253358.19897.0@doris.uk.clara.net> <3dc3fcf4$0$7369@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <3DC451D3.4060907@cyberspace.org> <PYgtuoA9YVx9EwVx@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <usdc39rpvohtd5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3DC718BE.7060706@cyberspace.org>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
> So:  did that make it clear?  No, you cannot use
>   system("logout")
> or a close variation to achieve what you want, but,
> yes, there are several Python-based ways to write it.

Yes I think I understand that although it seems a convoluted way to go 
about things.

I couldn't find anything any in the linux documentation which could do 
it - PAM etc just doesn't seem to be into it.

Thanks for your help

M



From stephen at mochamail.com  Tue Nov 12 13:12:59 2002
From: stephen at mochamail.com (Stephen Aichele)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:12:59 -0800
Subject: another cgi / database concern (SQL vs. 'shelve')
Message-ID: <307010-2200211212181259546@mochamail.com>

thanks to those who replied to may last questions here.  what a busy
mailing list!

So the next topic:  For the site I'm building, I'll need to access
user stats and log user input rather frequently.  The amount of data
to be stored for any given user is not significant, but there will be
a lot of accessing of database files.  

I have no experience with SQL, but I do have experience using shelve
for persistent storage of data.  I'd like to get some exposure to
SQL, but I'm not sure if it is overkill for what I'm doing -
considerations would be the learning curve of SQL and whether or not
continual access of and writing to a db file using 'shelve' would be
wise.  

any suggestions greatly appreciated.

- Stephen




From pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr  Thu Nov 21 09:06:04 2002
From: pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr (Pedro RODRIGUEZ)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:06:04 +0100
Subject: Read-only attributes using properties?
References: <82c04a2.0211210527.4d1a4393@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <arion6$koe$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:27:55 +0100, Roberto Amorim wrote:

> I was thinking about trying to use the new properties on Python 2.2 to
> implement read-only attributes. So I tried the following:
> 
> class MyException(Exception):
> 	pass
> 
> class TProp(object):
> 	def __init__(self):
> 		self.a = 0
> 	def get_a(self):
> 		return self.a
> 	def set_a(self, v):
> 		raise MyException
> 	a = property(get_a, set_a, None, "Test a")
> 
> t = TProp()
> print t.a
> t.a = 5
> 
> I was expecting that the script would fail with an exception on the "t.a
> = 5" command. However, I was surprised to see the code fail on the
> attribution inside __init__ - that is, there is no "inner class scope",
> or direct access within the class itself, and no clear way to initialize
> the property. If the property is an alias to the real internal variable
> (call it size, for instance), it works, but then if I try to add a
> __slots__ list excluding the internal var and only adding the external
> reference (__slots__=("a")) it stops working again.
> 
> Is there any other way to do that?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Roberto
 
Just my guess, but in your example you expect 'a' to be an attribute
AND a property. AFAIK, the examples on property make a clear distinction
between both of them naming the attribute '_a' (for internal use of the
class only), and property 'a' as the public interface to it.

class MyException(Exception):
        pass

class TProp(object):
    def __init__(self):
        self._a = 0
    def get_a(self):
        return self._a
    def set_a(self, v):
        raise MyException
    a = property(get_a, set_a, None, "Test a")

t = TProp()
print t.a
t.a = 5

$ ./local/bin/python2.2 z.py
0
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "z.py", line 15, in ?
    t.a = 5
  File "z.py", line 10, in set_a
    raise MyException
__main__.MyException


HTH,
Pedro


From reyesricardo at myrealbox.com  Thu Nov 28 18:57:29 2002
From: reyesricardo at myrealbox.com (Ricardo M. Reyes)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:57:29 -0300
Subject: Services in Python
Message-ID: <57178869380.20021128205729@myrealbox.com>

Hi:

I'm considering using Python to write a little smtp server, to do some
automated processing of emails in my office, and I need to know if
it's possible to make a server in Python that runs permanently under NT
server, even when there's no user logged in, like if it was a service.
I don't mind if it's not exactly an NT service, I just need that
particular characteristic.

Do you think it's possible? If it is, then I'll get greedy and ask for
something else: when there IS a user logged in, I'd like the program
to be invisible, with no icon in the task bar. Again, you think this
is possible?

I'm running NT Server 4, and may be able to use a Win2k if it's
necessary.

-- 
Ricardo M. Reyes          | (Mar del Plata - Argentina)
                          | Usando The Bat! 1.60c




From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov 13 14:10:52 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:10:52 GMT
Subject: simple metaclass question
References: <3DD08DC1.A4CFE557@irl.cri.nz> <aqs27n$avm$5@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <6NrA9.4123$744.137981@news1.tin.it> <aqu7kb$ihb$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7h3k7jhz3ti.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> writes:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> > Carl Banks wrote:
> >   ...
> >> 2. Because M is not a subclass of type, instances of M are not types.
> >>    Therefore, A is not a type.  (I'm not sure of this one, though.  I
> >>    think in Python an object can be a type only if it is a subclass of
> >>    type; I'm not sure if this is true in other languages with
> > 
> > I'm not exactly sure of what it is that you believe, but, for the record: 
> > objects CAN be types of other objects, in Python, without subclassing the 
> > built-in `type` -- for example:
> 
> Thanks.  I was thinking at the C level, where objects that serve as
> types have to have a certain fixed structure.  To create a metatype in
> Python (not C), it would have to be an instance of a class that
> subtypes type, right?

I don't know whether type(type(ob)) is always a subtype of type -- I
think so -- but certainly the thing you write 

class Bob:
    __metaclass__ = ...<---- here

doesn't have to be a subtype of type.  It can be handy to have a
function here, for instance -- but if this function doesn't return a
subtype of type, inheriting from the resulting class gets totally
bewildering (or at least, I managed to totally bewilder myself along
these lines).

> Gawd, it takes a lot to spin my head in circles, but this metaclass
> stuff is doing it.

Yeah, with metaclasses who needs drugs?  Or merry-go-rounds?

plenty-more-where-this-confusion-came-from-ly y'rs
M.

-- 
  > Touche! But this confirms you are composed of logic gates.
  Crud, I thought those were neurons in there.
                    -- Thomas F. Burdick, Kenny Tilton, comp.lang.lisp


From jadestar at idiom.com  Wed Nov 27 15:04:55 2002
From: jadestar at idiom.com (James T. Dennis)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:04:55 -0000
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com> <mailman.1038401545.18432.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1038427495.823484@smirk>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> "malik" == malik m <malik_martin at hotmail.com> writes:

>    malik> hi yea i messed up here's the code sorry about the html too
>    malik> i was using it through hotmail while i learnd and still am
>    malik> learning how to use newsgroups....

> One more thing to watch out for.  When you posted your code, the lines
> were automatically wrapped, making your code unrunnable without
> editing.

> Now, onto the problem!

> You need to convert the raw input to a numeric type, as in 

>  md = int(raw_input("Miles driven: "))

> raw_input comes back as a string.

> John Hunter

 He was calling int() on his results.  (It was completely lacking
 in exception handling, but that's a different issue).

 I think the problem was in his while expression, though he didn't 
 bother to provide a traceback or description of the failure mode so
 we can only guess.




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov  8 14:42:02 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:42:02 GMT
Subject: complicated class question
References: <mailman.1036780755.9123.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <esUy9.7247$Bs5.222809@news1.tin.it>

Fred Clift wrote:
   ...
> class a:
>     def foo(self):
>         print "hi"
> 
> 
> class b:
>     def bar(self):
>         ainst = a()
>         ainst.foo()
> 
> 
> say that a is defined in a system library and that b is in a 3rd party
> library.

Then presumably you have, in thirdparty.py:

import syslib
class b:
    def bar(self):
        ainst = syslib.a()
        ainst.foo()

right?  So basically all you need to ensure before you import thirdparty
that ITS import of syslib will get YOUR tweaked version of module
syslib, and there you are.

So for example you'll have in mysyslib.py:

import syslib as true_syslib
class a(true_syslib.a):
    def foo(self):
        print 'bye'


> I'd like to get b to use a modified version a, without having to change
> the code of either
> 
> 
> my code would do something like:
> 
> binst = b()
> <insert your solution here>
> binst.bar()

You want to intervene too late, I think.  BEFORE you import thirdparty,
you'll have to install your tweaked mysyslib module as syslib.  So:

import sys
import mysyslib
sys.modules['syslib'] = mysyslib
import thirdparty
binst = thirdparty.b()
binst.bar()


Alex



From tismer at tismer.com  Sat Nov  9 20:35:15 2002
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:35:15 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DCDB7D3.4090307@tismer.com>

Oleg wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
> between Python and Common Lisp (
> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?

Let me try a shameless plug:

CLisp and Scheme are great for problems. They are great.
Python is great for solutions. It is simple.

No other language is more successful
in vanishing behind the problem.

Python is the second best programming language in the world.
But the best has yet to be invented :-) -- chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Wed Nov 27 05:17:27 2002
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:17:27 +0100
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DE49BB7.80D199FB@jandecaluwe.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> Jan Decaluwe wrote:
> 
> > Hi:
> >
> > I'm confused by the following behavior of new-style classes
> > and operators:
> >
> >     class MyInt(object):
> >         def __init__(self, val):
> >             self.val = val
> >         def __getattr__(self, attr):
> >             return getattr(self.val, attr)
> >
> >
> >> python
> > Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 16 2002, 19:59:11)
> > [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>> from MyInt import MyInt
> >>>> a = MyInt(3)
> >>>> a.__add__(4)
> > 7
> >>>> a + 4
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > TypeError: unsupported operand types for +: 'MyInt' and 'int'
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't think is can be the intention. Or can it?
> 
> Yes it can.  The idea is that operators should rely on special
> methods defined by the TYPE (class) of the object they're working
> on, NOT on special methods defined just by the OBJECT itself and
> not by its class. 

But what makes operator methods so special that they should be treated
so differently from ordinary methods?

As far as I am concerned, operator syntax is just convenience, not 
concept. The line between operators and ordinary methods is thin
and arbitrary. 

For example, take 's.extend(x)', with s a list. The documentation states 
that it is the same as 's[len(s):len(s)] = x'. Another way to
do it is 's += x'.

Yet, if you try it with my example class, the 'extend' would work fine,
and while the 2 operator-style statements would give a type error.
What's logical about that?

My conclusion would be that if __getattr__ doesn't look up "special"
methods, it should'nt look up "ordinary" methods either, but rely
on inheritance for those also. 

Regards, Jan


--
Jan Decaluwe 
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com


From rmunn at pobox.com  Thu Nov 21 10:41:54 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:41:54 GMT
Subject: def hook?
References: <arh7gc$pj8$1@panix2.panix.com> <slrnatpb9u.bu.haering_postgresql@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <slrnatpvtu.gtp.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Gerhard H?ring <haering_postgresql at gmx.de> wrote:
> where is "peek URL" in lynx?!).

Try hitting = (the equal sign key). I think that's the feature you want.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Sun Nov 10 08:44:38 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 14:44:38 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1036771391.24624.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfisz51qux.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

"Paul Sage" <psage at ncaustin.com> writes:

> However, LISP also was not obvious to me as a 'real-world' language
> because it just always felt like I had to recreate the wheel when I
> used it for anything applicable to a real world application.

Funny, when it comes to wheels (data types/structures and
algorithms/utilities) Common Lisp has the most comprehensive set built
in to the language.

Its weakness is the relative lack of libraries built out of those
components, compared to what you would find for, say, Python.

> In all fairness, my impression of LISP was based around a language I
> had to learn in college and the tasks that were assigned to me.

And such college courses are notorious for giving a very strange (and
damaging) introduction to Lisp, and for giving Lisp a bad name.


From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Nov 21 14:31:15 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 19:31:15 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>  <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org>  <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>  <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org>  <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>  <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de>  <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com>  <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arjca3$edc$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.):
...
| There's a strange phenomenon with programmers, especially (but not
| exclusively) ones who are attached to one or a couple favorite
| langauges.  They claim--rather persistently--that someone/anyone can
| learn their language in an absurdly short time period.

What you can do in that absurdly short time is transfer your
knowledge of some other language.  Like a trombone player
experimenting with a trumpet - OK, I see how this works, see how
the valves and combinations of valves relate to the slide, and
I'm in business.  Probably way past an ordinary beginning trumpet
player, because the insight from the comparison may make some
things clearer about both instruments.  You still lack reflexes
and muscles for the job, and you'll slave for years to achieve a
good sound, but in a pinch you can do something easy the same day.

But we're assuming you know music.  I guess I must have already
had most of the background for Python when I encountered it,
because it really does seem to me like it was a few hours here
and there over a week and I was programming in Python.  (It was
a few years back - Python 1.1! - but I remember some of it.)

These days I'm trying to teach myself Haskell, and that's a
different story, like learning a really foreign language.
I imagine this is what it must be like to learn Python from
scratch.  I can see how things are done in isolation, but
faced with a problem, I can't quickly envision an idiomatic
solution, and when I see what someone else has done it takes
a while to sink in.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From davegaramond at icqmail.com  Sun Nov 10 18:10:30 2002
From: davegaramond at icqmail.com (David Garamond)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:10:30 -0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <3DCEE766.4030705@icqmail.com>

Pascal Costanza wrote:
> ...or some nice examples. ;)
>  > (+ 1 1)
>  > (+ 1 1 1)
>  > (+ 1 1 1 2)
>  > (+ 2)
>  > (+)
>  > (*)

this is neat indeed :-)

-- 
dave





From missive at frontiernet.net  Sun Nov 24 11:15:08 2002
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:15:08 -0000
Subject: a % b == b when a is a very small negative number
Message-ID: <uu1uocd4db4be5@corp.supernews.com>

I have some code which is storing the direction an object
is moving, and I want to keep that value: 0 <= direction < 2*PI

So I do something like this:

class Directed:
    def setDirection(self, direction):
        self.direction = direction % (2*PI)  # PI = math.pi

This works fine until direction is some very very small negative number,
like -0.1e-16.

With that input, self.direction == 2*PI.


What I do right now to work around this is take the modulus twice:

    def setDirection(self, direction):
        self.direction = direction % (2*PI) % (2*PI)  # weird, but works

Though thinking about it now, it might be better to simply
check for a very small number:

    def setDirection(self, direction):
        if direction> 0 and direction < 0.00001:
            self.direction = 0
        else:
            self.direction = direction % (2*PI)


Is this not a proper use of the % operator?
Should not a % b always be less than b?



From grante at visi.com  Thu Nov 14 17:08:16 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 22:08:16 GMT
Subject: Serial Port
References: <DAV61i0JhsgVy134IpL00004da5@hotmail.com> <m2of8rq3n2.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <mailman.1037308913.8874.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dd41ed0$0$4440$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1037308913.8874.python-list at python.org>, Luca Bruderer wrote:

>>     Luca> Hello How can I read and send information through a serial
>>     Luca> port for a custom keyboard I would like to build.

> And what about a module for the USB port?

You want to do raw USB stuff?  

If you've got an RS-232 serial port on the other end of USB, it
looks the same as a local one: it just has a different path
name.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Then, it's off to
                                  at               RED CHINA!!
                               visi.com            


From bdesth at nospam.free.fr  Mon Nov 18 21:39:19 2002
From: bdesth at nospam.free.fr (laotseu)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:39:19 -0500
Subject: System Administration with Python -- documentation?
References: <mailman.1037619864.4762.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD9A457.2080300@nospam.free.fr>

Simon Brunning wrote:
>>From:	steve at ferg.org [SMTP:steve at ferg.org]
>>I'd like to suggest Python as a useful tool for our (NT and Unix)
>>System Administrators.
>>
>>Ideally, there would be a book called something like "System
>>Administration with Python" or "Python for System Administrators", and
>>I could just recommend that book. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to
>>be such a book in print.  (I think there is a need here that O'Reilly
>>should jump on!)
>>
>>I have found the "System Administration" category of the "Python
>>Cookbook".  It has some useful material, but of course it is not
>>designed to give systematic and comprehensive coverage of all of the
>>tasks that a system administrator would like to do with Python.
>>
>>Does anyone have any suggestions for materials on the subject of
>>Python for System Administrators?  Online materials?  Chapters from
>>books?  Anything?
> 
>  
> Mark Lutz's "Programming Python", 2nd edition has a 200+ page section on
> system administration with Python.
> 

I was just about to give the same answer.

But a book (or web page or...) just covering this specific topic, doing 
it in deep, might be A Good Thing (tm), IMHO.

Laotseu

> Cheers,
> Simon Brunning
> TriSystems Ltd.
> sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk
> 



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Nov 15 08:13:59 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 08:13:59 -0500
Subject: Accessing Dictionary values from within the Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <h10B9.797$v14.274678940@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>
References: <h10B9.797$v14.274678940@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <oq7kffdlgo.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Kuros]

> I have created a dictionary, like so:
> dict = {var1 : 0, var 2: 0}

Did you mean?

    dict = {'var1': 0, 'var2': 0}

Be careful, you probably did not intend a space between `var' and `2'.

> dict = {var1 : 1, var 2 : 2, var3 : dict[var1] + dict[var2]}
> But I get an invalid syntax error.

Probably this would work for you:

    dict = {'var1': 1, 'var2': 2, 'var3': dict['var1'] + dict['var2']}

But you know, you may add to a dictionary without rebuilding whole.
After having done:

    dict = {'var1': 0, 'var2': 0}

you may well merely complete it by doing only:

    dict['var3'] = dict['var1'] + dict['var2']

> Could someone help me out with this?

The best advice I think I could give you is developping the habit of
re-reading your code very carefully.  Hmph!  I hope I do not myself have
too many mistakes in this reply :-).

Programming languages are not much forgiving, you have to be extremely
precise in what you write.  It should also be worth going through the
Python tutorial very patiently, repeating all the exercises by yourself,
playing around them, mastering everything written in there.  You might
also choose to buy good books on Python programming, there are many, and
accepting to invest time for scrutinising them carefully.  These should
help you getting acquainted with the art of programming!

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From theller at python.net  Wed Nov 20 11:15:52 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 17:15:52 +0100
Subject: Mirror of Python Cookbook
References: <pan.2002.11.20.17.08.46.349629.2476@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <zns4z07b.fsf@python.net>

Thomas Guettler <pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de> writes:

> Hi!
> 
> Is there a mirror of the python cookbook?
> 
> It has a lot of great recipes, I don't want to 
> miss them if the sever is down.

The printed book works great as a mirror. Most of the time, it's also
faster.

Thomas


From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 28 11:16:56 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:16:56 GMT
Subject: python path
References: <3de63380$0$86565$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <pan.2002.11.28.15.46.16.727073@imperialviolet.org> <3de63ee0$0$86551$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <7h31y55ptap.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Jonas Geiregat <kemu at sdf-eu.org> writes:

> don't get it here is how my bashrc file looks like
> 
> # .bashrc
> 
> # User specific aliases and functions
> $PYTHONPATH = /usr/lib/wxPython
  ^          ^ ^ 
  you don't want these... sh syntax is not the most obvious.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  If you have too much free time and can't think of a better way to
  spend it than reading Slashdot, you need a hobby, a job, or both.
     -- http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/klee/misc/slashdot.html#faq


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Nov 18 16:04:25 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 16:04:25 -0500
Subject: tempfile.mktemp() and symlink attacks
References: <3ygu9.105734$La5.330766@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <arbkkp$51t$1@panix1.panix.com>

[I'm reposting this because nobody followed up to it.  I tried doing
some research because I know there have been changed for Python 2.3, but
I wasn't able to find the relevant posts on python-dev.]

In article <3ygu9.105734$La5.330766 at rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>,
Kent Hu  <kenthu at kenNOSPAMthu.net> wrote:
>Is using tempfile.mktemp() vulnerable to symlink attacks?  The reason I ask 
>is that the documentation for os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam() has warnings 
>about symlink attacks, but the documentation for tempfile.mktemp() does 
>not.  Also, running os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam() actually brings a 
>RuntimeWarning, while I tried comparing the implementations, but couldn't 
>find the source for os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam() in os.py (I'm using 
>version 2.2.1).
>
>Now, if tempfile.mktemp() is vulnerable, I think the docs should say so.  
>And if it's not vulnerable, the docs for os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam() 
>should refer readers to tempfile.mktemp() instead of os.tmpfile(), since 
>tempfile.mktemp() is more functionally similar.
>
>Kent Hu
>
>
>Relevant links:
>http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-file-dir.html
>http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-tempfile.html


-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?


From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 19 04:19:19 2002
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:19:19 +0000
Subject: XML SAX
Message-ID: <F245EivEjeAGVkjElpD000043fa@hotmail.com>

>In the Demo/xml directory of the python distribution, there is a
>"roundtrip.py" exampel of how to use the XML SAX API. The script
>basically parses an xml file, and echos the elements to standard out.
>
>I have written a very small XML file I use as input (test.xml):
>
><body>
></body>
><body>
></body>
>
>And I get an execption (see output below) from the expat parser, which
>is selected by default.
>Having just one XML "body" element works fine, but not two as in the
>example above...
>
>What is the problem?

This looks like an XML well-formed-ness question. XML requires that 
everything is inside one top level element. So:

<? xmlversionstuff>
<mydoc>
<body>
</body>
<body>
</body>
</mydoc>

will work, but without the mydoc tag, it's not well-formed. Check out

http://www.xml.com/pub/a/98/10/guide3.html#WELLFORMED

If you're using the basic SAX parser, SAXParseExceptions are caused by the 
document you're feeding it.

HTH,
Paul

>Thanx
>Sara

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From beyer at incent.com  Sun Nov 10 20:08:08 2002
From: beyer at incent.com (Hugh Beyer)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:08:08 -0500
Subject: PyUnit lacks gravity?
References: <Uzmz9.610328$nE3.53618@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> <m37kflc0pi.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <DmDz9.1720$tx1.1502@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

I actually did understand this was outside of unittest. But since IDLE
doesn't normally behave badly there must be some wierd interaction between
the two systems. I was hoping this was something that people had seen
before.

    Hugh

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:m37kflc0pi.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "Hugh Beyer" <beyer at incent.com> writes:
>
> >   File "C:\PYTHON21\Tools\idle\PyShell.py", line 676, in write
> >     self.shell.write(s, self.tags)
> >   File "C:\PYTHON21\Tools\idle\PyShell.py", line 662, in write
> >     self.text.mark_gravity("iomark", "right")
> > AttributeError: 'None' object has no attribute 'mark_gravity'
> >
> > Last I checked, gravity here was Earth normal. I'm running
unitttest.main()
> > to set up the suite, but I get the same error if I create and run the
test
> > suite myself. Any ideas what's going wrong?
>
> Study the traceback! This is in IDLE, not in unittest. self.text is
> None.
>
> This happens when somebody closes sys.stdout, in IDLE: future writes
> to sys.stdout fail. Now, I cannot guess why sys.stdout was closed in
> your case; you should modify IDLE to raise an exception in close, to
> see where the close originates from.
>
> Regards,
> Martin





From kevin at cazabon.com  Fri Nov  8 23:16:54 2002
From: kevin at cazabon.com (Kevin@Cazabon.com)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 04:16:54 GMT
Subject: Questions about tuple?
References: <mailman.1036801694.17667.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <V_%y9.24157$Dc4.89886@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

It's called a dictionary.

dict = {"a":1, "b":3, "l":2, "p":8, "m":(1,2,3,4,5), "z":"blah"}

dict.keys()
>>> ("a", "b", "l", "p","m","z")

dict.values()
>>> (1,3,2,8,(1,2,3,4,5),"blah")

dict["a"]
>>>1

Kevin.

"Mindy" <csshi99 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1036801694.17667.python-list at python.org...
> Hey, given a tuple t(a,b), is there any function in
> Python that I can get a, b individually from t?
> Actually, I have a list whose element is tuples. Say:
>
> tuple_list = [(1,'a'),(3,'b'),(2,'l'),(8,'p')]
>
> Then I want to get two lists from this tuple_list. The
> first list contains the first elements in the tuple of
> the tuple_list.
>
> first_list = [1,3,2,8]
>
> And the second list contains all the second elements,
> also maintaining the original order as in tuple_list.
>
> second_list = ['a','b','l','p']
>
> So how to get this easily? Thanks!
>
>
> =====
> Cheers
> -Mindy
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
> http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
>




From blackprogramming at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  6 21:29:37 2002
From: blackprogramming at yahoo.com (black)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:29:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: where could we find PMW package ?
Message-ID: <20021107022937.44401.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com>


Howdy~

I'm practice Tkinter these days and my book told me PMW provided many nicely  GUI components, I checked python.org but find nothing, where is it ??? or it is not free ???



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD
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From imbosol at vt.edu  Mon Nov 18 17:17:50 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:17:50 -0500
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Richard Dillingham wrote:
> Kind of like we have multiple assignments in a line (oldx,oldy=x,y), what do
> you think of the ability to have multiple tests in an if statement with only
> one == or >=.
> 
> This would mean that lines like the following:
> if posx>=coords[0] and posy>=coords[1] and posx<=coords[2] and
> posy<=coords[3]:
> 
> Could be rewritten like so:
> if posx,posy>=coords[0],coords[1] and posx,posy<=coords[2],coords[3]

How would you disambiguate that from a comparison of two tuples?


-- 
CARL BANKS


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Thu Nov 14 15:10:53 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:10:53 +0000
Subject: Variable names on the fly?
References: <3dd3f5fd$0$28311$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <r9u7tu8csfau7sjrpkbg85ttsjrphsec7t@4ax.com> <slrnat7vls.fq.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <em08tukdil48tvou9u3c9ria77cjcqljn6@4ax.com>

On 14 Nov 2002 19:51:25 GMT, Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at gmx.de>
wrote:

>Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:13:22 -0000, "e-tones.co.uk"
>>>[...] Whats the proper format to concatenate (sp?) variable names. I
>>>used list+i, obviously this doesnt work, but what does :)
>> 
>> As far as I know you cannot do this [...]
>
>There's little you cannot do in Python ;-)
>
>for i in range(3):
>    locals()["list%i" % i] = []

Although I'm sure you are aware of it, here is for general information:

>From the docs on locals:
"Return a dictionary representing the current local symbol table.
Warning: The contents of this dictionary should not be modified; changes
may not affect the values of local variables used by the interpreter."

>
>... it's actually a very bad idea. Use nested lists or a dictionary.
>
>OTOH being able to dynamically create class attributes by writing in
>the class object's __dict__ or by overriding __getattr__ sometimes
>really helps.
>
>-- Gerhard

All the best,
Gon?alo Rodrigues


From jmarshal at madmax.mathworks.com  Wed Nov 27 09:46:28 2002
From: jmarshal at madmax.mathworks.com (Joshua Marshall)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:46:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
References: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com> <3de3e129$0$4437$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <as0p9f$3c7$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <uu89r7d7flnd09@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <as2ls4$2up$1@ginger.mathworks.com>

John Roth <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote:

> I'd think it would be equivalent to:

> a += i
> b += j

> the corner case you mention should behave
> the same as

> a, b = b, a

> Why make it more complicated than it has
> to be?

Because if you do the translation with your rule, you get:

  a += b
  b += a

which is, in my opinion, unexpected.


From mputters at dreamingprophet.com  Fri Nov 29 13:48:16 2002
From: mputters at dreamingprophet.com (Mickael Putters)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:48:16 +0100
Subject: Embedding Python and built-in types
Message-ID: <005c01c297d7$e1788510$9600000a@ashe>

Hi.

I'm currently looking for some high level language script language that can be embedded, to be used in one of our projects. Many people suggested Python, so I downloaded it and took a look at the doc. And I couldn't find the answer to the most important question I had (so maybe you people here can help :P) :

Is it possible to embed it so that you have control over the simple types operators ?

Basically, that you can for example handle yourself the operator = for integers (actually, just being notified of it happening is enough, since it's to compile some part of the language to bytecode).

Thanks.

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From timr at probo.com  Wed Nov 13 02:35:31 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:35:31 -0800
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
References: <aqrb1b$i5i$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1037151556.3701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <crv3tuob7t67r3llmo0rujn36tm9jfs03q@4ax.com>

Terence Ng <ngterry2000 at yahoo.com.hk> wrote:

>I know what a spammer do.  My situation is that:  My
>company has just finished an electronics fair, and
>received a lot of business cards asking for quotation,
>etc.  I am not asking for a heavy weight mailing list
>server.  There is already a lot on the internet.  This
>is a very common business practice.  I just want to be
>smart sending the emails to this list instead of
>sending the emails one by one.

There ARE legitimate reasons for this kind of mailing list.

I'm not sure what part of this you need help with.  You posted to the
comp.lang.python newsgroup; do you know Python?  Do you already know how to
fetch the addresses out of MySQL?

I would create a "template" of the e-mail, looking exactly the way I wanted
it to look, then just use smtplib.sendmail to send the message.  It isn't
that hard.  IIS will not be involved.

You will need an SMTP server to pump the message through.  Unless you're
running one in house, you'll have to make sure your ISP allows you to do
this.  Do you have to hook up to a web site for hits and removals?
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From usenet at dwall.fastmail.fm  Fri Nov  8 13:45:21 2002
From: usenet at dwall.fastmail.fm (David K. Wall)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 18:45:21 -0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <aqbe90$85d$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <aqbimo$a36$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <aqfor2$cv5$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <3DCB7D3D.B2EAAB0F@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns92C08BEEAB7F7dkwwashere@216.168.3.30>

Benjamin Goldberg <goldbb2 at earthlink.net> wrote on 08 Nov 2002:

[lots of technical stuff]

Ack.  My brain hurts.  Make it stop....

-- 
David K. Wall - usenet at dwall.fastmail.fm
/me recalls the captured prisoners in Quake2


From timr at probo.com  Fri Nov 15 02:00:56 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:00:56 -0800
Subject: [regexp] Where's the error in this ini-file reading regexp?
References: <3dd2a254@news.swissonline.ch> <mailman.1037220985.2546.python-list@python.org> <3dd361c1@news.swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <hp69tu0af1p55rsqe1bc0m4v929qm3dbvg@4ax.com>

"F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote:

>I know, I could do it line-wise. But I am after a single re-line, doing
>everything for me.

That's a "perl" way of thinking, where you see every problem as having a
regular expression solution.  It usually produces neither satisfying nor
high-performance Python code.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From bromden at gazeta.pl  Sun Nov 10 07:23:50 2002
From: bromden at gazeta.pl (bromden)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:23:50 +0100
Subject: CGI download CSV
References: <ujcssu89sl9gd6chg1n42hm4o7m2819gje@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3DCE4FD6.1050808@gazeta.pl>

> My Python CGI program generates a .CSV file and I would like Windows
> users to be able to download it via their web browser.

i think, the most simple way to do this is to make the
cgi script write the csv file somewhere under the webroot,
and then return normal html page with a link to this file

eg.
you write csv to /var/www/html/csv/a.csv
and script returns a page with link: http://hostname/csv/a.csv
(where the webroot is /var/www/html)

you can also include in header of the page the line
<meta http-equiv="Refresh" content="1; url=http://hostname/csv/a.csv">
so the download will start automatically (after 1 second)

-- 
bromden
GCS d- s+: a- C++$ UL(++++) P-- L++ E--- W+(++) N++ o? K? w(++) !O M--
!V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP+ t--- 5? X- R- tv-- b++>+++ DI- D- G e+++ h-- r- y?



From mistericeberg at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 11 19:07:55 2002
From: mistericeberg at hotmail.com (Georges Bernier)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 16:07:55 -0800
Subject: Create DLL in Python ?
Message-ID: <1b318b70.0211111607.74ace07@posting.google.com>

Hello, 

We have a legacy application at work written in Visual C which makes
use of a DLL for specific communication functions. Now I have to
replace this DLL (whose API is well documented) with an enhanced
version which will make use of TCP/IP instead of older protocols
without changing the original C application (or at least changing the
minimum possible).

Naturally I was thinking of using Python (as it has great network
libraries and would simplify the development) but after much googling
haven't found a clear answer on how to generate standalone DLLs from
Python (i.e. DLLs which are not Python extensions).

So does anybody have experience in such a thing, is it a bad idea (as
I'm starting to think is is) and would it better be done in C/C++ ?
I would appreciate comments from the Python community on this.

Thanks !

Georges Bernier


From benc1 at today.com.au  Sun Nov  3 21:05:00 2002
From: benc1 at today.com.au (Ben C)
Date: 3 Nov 2002 18:05:00 -0800
Subject: Using windll with complex data types
References: <8beb91f5.0211020556.30107507@posting.google.com> <0qxMNUAyh+w9EwJw@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <8beb91f5.0211021858.4739bd5f@posting.google.com> <oZ2x9.4828$5u4.15910@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <8beb91f5.0211031804.330b65ad@posting.google.com>

Ahh (*insite*) ... of course ( I have been staring at this for too
long) ... actually it is 3.x I was looking for ... two parts

thanks very much Neil


"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:<oZ2x9.4828$5u4.15910 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> Ben C:
> 
> > API short int __stdcall GetVersion( VERSION *lpVersion );
> > ...
> > # If I Feed This Into The Builtin Struct Function
> > struct.unpack( 'l', '\x03\x00\x02\x00' )
> 
>    Which is likely to mean version 2.0.3 as version numbers often encode
> their parts in separate bytes.
> 
> > # I End Up With A Nonsense Number
> > (131075,)
> 
>    == 0x20003
> 
>    Neil


From blackprogramming at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 10 21:34:35 2002
From: blackprogramming at yahoo.com (black)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:34:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pmw link is always dead ???
Message-ID: <20021111023435.45141.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com>


God I tried thousands of times to that link but failed all the time. anywhere else available please ???

thanx~



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD
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From straton at lampsacos.demon.co.uk  Fri Nov 15 16:42:20 2002
From: straton at lampsacos.demon.co.uk (Ken Starks)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:42:20 +0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>
 <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net>
 <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
 <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
 <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk>
 <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3LkTqJA8oW19EwDs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk>

In article <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>, Martin v.
Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> writes
>However, it is not clear to what the value would be of completing the
>circle, given that the XML is of no use.

No use at all, if 'XML is of no use'
Much use indeed, if XML is of much use.

To me, the documentation would be much more use if it could
be customised for all-and-every kind of user. Most
of the following projects (and others, I am sure)
would be far easier with xml formatted stuff. From an
educational perspective, we should try give our
'search for documentation' the intelligence to respond:

 * by level of programming skill
    + you don't get stuff you've know for years
    + you don't get stuff that is well beyond you

 * by personal ownership:
   + you get page numbers for books you happen to own
   + you get hyper-ref links to your own journals and logs

 * by an evolutionary system of quality control
   + the membership send in their top fifty item-refs
   + the system finds other members with similar tastes
   + on that basis, they get back 
        'If you liked that, you may well like this ...' 

 * with extras, we can add, either in private or in public:
   + pictures and diagrams
   + collated threads from the newsgroups
       | collated by keyword, modules mentioned, author
   + snippets of code (of  local or general relevance)
       | task in human language
       | solution in pseudocode
       | solution in python
       | solution in another language ...



-- 
Ken Starks


From theller at python.net  Thu Nov 14 08:43:41 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 14:43:41 +0100
Subject: windll event loop leaks
References: <wc5tAKABi409EwqD@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <smy4xrpv.fsf@python.net> <tti68IAu$509Ewaa@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <heekxoa4.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <bs4sxo4y.fsf@python.net>

> > I will certainly give this a whirl. It doesn't provide a callback
> > generatr, but I suppose I can still use Sam's gencb.
> 
> Sure does it! It's just not yet documented, although I believe
> there are examples in the test directory.

Actually I lied! There's an empty 'callbacks' section in the manual,
but callbacks are later described under 'Functions': you actually
create a C compatible function, and hand the pointer over to somewhere
else.

Thomas


From c.rendon at attbi.com  Mon Nov 11 17:44:05 2002
From: c.rendon at attbi.com (Craig Rendon)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:44:05 GMT
Subject: Best way to acces shelves from embedded python
Message-ID: <VoWz9.273$1O2.6@sccrnsc04>

Dear Python  People,

Question:

My question is:  what is the best way to access shelves from embedded
python?

What I've done so far:

I am trying to write a serial driver daemon that loads a simple database of
comm port parms from a Python shelve.  Using the "simple strings" strategy,
I get an ImportError.  The error (see traceback, .c and .py modules below)
is due to an undefined symbol in struct.so.  If I use the "calling Python
Objects in modules" strategy (e.g. PyImport_ImportModule() and
PyEval_CallObject()), I get a core dump without a traceback.

Thanks, Craig Rendon (c.rendon at attbi.com)

TraceBack:

File <string> in line1
File /opt/nmcs/src/Driver/getshelve.py line1
    import shelve
File /usr/local/lib/python2.2/shelve.py line 36
    from pickle import Pickle, Unpickle
File /usr/local/lib/python2.2/pickle.py line 32
    import struct
ImportError: /usr/local/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/struct.so: undefined
symbol: PyString_Type


driverd.c module:

#include Python.h
PyRun_SimpleString("import sys");
PyRun_SimpleString("sys.path.append('/opt/nmcs/src/Driver')");    #path of
getshelve.py
PyRun_SimpleString("getshelve.getshelve('/opt/nmcs/py/comm.shv')");  #print
out dict


getshelve.py module:

#just print out the db when the func is run from the embedded code
import shelve
def getshelve(file):
    db=open.shelve(file)
    print "getshelve: db", db['comm']  #my db is a dict that is a value for
the 'comm'




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 24 14:45:20 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 19:45:20 GMT
Subject: a % b == b when a is a very small negative number
References: <uu1uocd4db4be5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <arra8g$emt$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:15:08 -0000, Lee Harr <missive at frontiernet.net> wrote:

>
>I have some code which is storing the direction an object
>is moving, and I want to keep that value: 0 <= direction < 2*PI
>
>So I do something like this:
>
>class Directed:
>    def setDirection(self, direction):
>        self.direction = direction % (2*PI)  # PI = math.pi
>
>This works fine until direction is some very very small negative number,
>like -0.1e-16.
>
Does this do what you want?

 >>> class Directed:
 ...      import math
 ...      TWOPI = 2.0*math.pi
 ...      def setDirection(self, direction):
 ...          turns = direction/self.TWOPI
 ...          turns -= int(turns)   # effect is modulo TWOPI on absolute value of angle
 ...          self.direction = turns*self.TWOPI
 ...
 >>> d = Directed()
 >>> d.setDirection(-0.1e-16)
 >>> d.direction
 -1.0000000000000001e-017
 >>> d.setDirection(+0.1e-16)
 >>> d.direction
 1.0000000000000001e-017
 >>> d.setDirection(Directed.TWOPI)
 >>> d.direction
 0.0
 >>> d.setDirection(Directed.TWOPI+0.1e-16)
 >>> d.direction
 0.0
 >>> d.setDirection(Directed.TWOPI-0.1e-16)
 >>> d.direction
 0.0
 >>> d.setDirection(Directed.TWOPI+0.1e-15)
 >>> d.direction
 0.0
 >>> d.setDirection(Directed.TWOPI+0.1e-14)
 >>> d.direction
 1.3951473992034527e-015
 >>> d.setDirection(Directed.TWOPI-0.1e-15)
 >>> d.direction
 0.0
 >>> d.setDirection(Directed.TWOPI-0.1e-14)
 >>> d.direction
 6.2831853071795853
 >>> d.setDirection(-Directed.TWOPI-0.1e-15)
 >>> d.direction
 0.0
 >>> d.setDirection(-Directed.TWOPI-0.1e-14)
 >>> d.direction
 -1.3951473992034527e-015
 >>> d.setDirection(-Directed.TWOPI+0.1e-14)
 >>> d.direction
 -6.2831853071795853 

>With that input, self.direction == 2*PI.
>
>
>What I do right now to work around this is take the modulus twice:
>
>    def setDirection(self, direction):
>        self.direction = direction % (2*PI) % (2*PI)  # weird, but works
>
>Though thinking about it now, it might be better to simply
>check for a very small number:
>
>    def setDirection(self, direction):
>        if direction> 0 and direction < 0.00001:
>            self.direction = 0
>        else:
>            self.direction = direction % (2*PI)
>
>
>Is this not a proper use of the % operator?
>Should not a % b always be less than b?
>

>From th docs
"""
The modulo operator always yields a result with the same sign as
its second operand (or zero); the absolute value of the result
is strictly smaller than the second operand.
"""

I don't know what you are doing, but remember that you can't represent
2*PI exactly unless you invent a scaled unit for it. E.g. you could define
exactly one (i.e., 1.0) turn to be equal to exactly 2*pi mathematical radians.
Then if you have an angle in turn units, angle-int(angle) will do
an effective modulo 2*PI on the absolute value of your angle and leave
the sign intact. If you want to go even further, you might want to represent
turns as rationals instead of floats, or define a fractional turn unit suitable
for your application. Of course you always have to multiply by a scale factor before
calling sin or cos etc, but you can avoid accumulating angular errors if your
problem steps in exact increments. OTOH the error in doubles is small enough
for most practical problems.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 22 02:10:02 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:10:02 -0800
Subject: With what module can Python handel *.tar.gz file?
References: <mailman.1037947830.13867.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDDD84A.618E9F81@alcyone.com>

You wrote:

> Buddies, I have a file named  ***.tar.gz, and I want to gunzip it with
> Python. With which modules can I accomplish this task? And how to?

There's a gzip module.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If the sky should fall, hold up your hands.
\__/ (a Spanish proverb)
    HardScience.info / http://www.hardscience.info/
 The best hard science Web sites that the Web has to offer.


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Mon Nov 11 07:01:39 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:01:39 +0100
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <J9Lz9.15955$Bs5.566768@news1.tin.it> <ur8dss7w6.fsf@scientia.com>
Message-ID: <aqo668$f6g$1@news.netpower.no>

"Paul Rudin" <Paul_Rudin at scientia.com> wrote in message
news:ur8dss7w6.fsf at scientia.com...
> >>>>> "AM" == Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
>
>  AM> Paul Rudin wrote:
>  >> .... lisp's if:
>  >>
>  >> (if x y z)
>  >>
>  >> which returns y if x is true and z otherwise.
>  >>
>  >> ... is there a succinct way of expressing this in the base language?
>
> [snip urls]
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> Seems like the executive summary is : "No" :-)
>

There are ways to do it, but it's a matter of how general a solution you
want, and whether it would be better to express the code in other ways.
However, you might try:
    (y, z)[not x]
I think that will give the required result in most cases, but at a definite
cost in readability.





From jadestar at idiom.com  Wed Nov 27 15:11:22 2002
From: jadestar at idiom.com (James T. Dennis)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:11:22 -0000
Subject: what does is ?
References: <3de4a6dd$0$86531$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <slrnau9cep.tk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <3DE4B96D.1060808@Linux.ie> <slrnau9fl9.hk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <1038427882.52799@smirk>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote:
> Padraig Brady <Padraig at Linux.ie> wrote:
>> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>>> Jonas Geiregat <kemu at sdf-eu.org> wrote:

>>>>I saw something
>>>>import string
>>>>string._StringType is str
>>>>what does this specially that IS

>>> The "is" operator compares object *identity*, rather than equality, which
>>> the "==" operator does.

>> Well why does the following happen on 2.2?
>> Is Python being clever about merging variables?

>> s1="123"
>> s2=s1[:]
>> s1 is s2 #true?

> Yes. Certain strings (not all) are being "interned". And certain ints 
> (not all)
> are interned, too:

 ...

> But it seems to me that the [:] slicing has an additional optimization, apart
> from interning.

 Youch!  I hope that *only* happens with immutables!  Of course calling
 "is" on names that are bound to immutables might not be useful in any
 practical sense.  On mutables in can alert you to the need for copy or
 deepcopy operations.  When would you care about object identity of 
 numbers or strings?



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Nov 20 18:23:36 2002
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:23:36 GMT
Subject: Simple sort for lists?
References: <4f5748b4.0211201517.2de69de0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <YPUC9.32469$aB1.11436@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

"R. Arens" <martian_bob at portalofevil.com>
> Hi, I'm using os.path.walk to walk through directories and join
> ordered files in the directories into one large file. Problem is,
> os.path.walk doesn't process the files in order, due to the way
> os.path.walk sends the filenames to the visit function. Does Python
> provide a method to sort the list of filenames provided by
> os.path.walk?

The code for os.path.walk is short, sweet, and easily copied so
you can roll your own version like this:

def walk(top, func, arg):
    try:
        names = os.listdir(top)
        names.sort()                 ## this is the one change
    except os.error:
        return
    func(arg, top, names)
    exceptions = ('.', '..')
    for name in names:
        if name not in exceptions:
            name = join(top, name)
            if isdir(name):
                walk(name, func, arg)

Raymond Hettinger




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 28 13:46:15 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 18:46:15 GMT
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org> <as1n60$dkg$2@wheel2.two14.net> <3DE5883C.8010705@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <as5o9n$phg$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:06:36 +1300, Greg Ewing <see_reply_address at something.invalid> wrote:

>maney at pobox.com wrote:
>
>> Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>proof that the language is broken in that area. We don't say, "Is Tuesday 
>>>today?" or "Is 5 your age?", either. :)
>> 
>> Is it Tuesday today?
>
>
>But these sound *really* odd:
They sound odd without appropriate context, but if something is grammatically
correct, chances are there's a use for it. E.g.,
>
"We have been writing the first name of a lesser-known actress on
the blackboard every day."
>   Is Tuesday it today?

>
"We have discussed when to meet for lunch, and I think I can now say with
some assurance that we have finally decided on the day."
>   Tuesday is it.
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Nov 24 10:40:10 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:40:10 -0600
Subject: embedding python inC
In-Reply-To: <20021124061959.31099.qmail@webmail28.rediffmail.com> ("paul
 sayuj kanjirathingal"'s message of "24 Nov 2002 06:19:59 -0000")
References: <20021124061959.31099.qmail@webmail28.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <m28yzjm0x1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "paul" == paul sayuj kanjirathingal <psayuj at rediffmail.com> writes:

    paul> hi, I have a problem. I am using python to read data from
    paul> com port of PC .  the data that i am receiving is stored in
    paul> a List data type.  now I am writing another Program in C to
    paul> manipulate the data.

    paul>    the problem is I want to convert the Python List data
    paul> type to C array data type(char or int); i have embedded the
    paul> python interpreter in C program.

With the little I know about your problem, this sounds more like it
should be an "extending python" question rather than an "embedding
python" question.  Do everything in python, and pass the list off to a
specialized C function for speedy processing (if necessary).  Is this
an alternative for you?  Is there a reason you must do this with
embedding embedding.

>From your description, your list types appear to be simple and
homogeneous (chars or numbers).  In that case, the already built and
super speedy Numeric extension may already do everything you need for
efficiency.

What kinds of processing do you want to do on the data?  With care, it
is possible to handle lists very efficiently with list and dict
built-ins or some widely available extensions like Numeric and
lots-o-others.

    paul> please help me . I have to finish this assignment by this
    paul> month.

More info required.

JDH




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 20 12:49:56 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:49:56 -0500
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org> <3DDB3373.2578CEC0@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <BaGcnQynO5m2VEagXTWc3Q@comcast.com>

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3DDB3373.2578CEC0 at alcyone.com...
> Oh, of course; there's really no question why this is the case in
the
> current implementation.

The current implementation follows a very simple rule.  If you want an
expression evaluated when the function is created, you make it a
default argument.  If you want it evaluated upon each call to the
function after it is created, you put it in the body of the function.
There are good reasons for such simple rules.

>  My point is that there is no real a priori
> reason why mutable default arguments couldn't do the equivalent of
>
> def f(x=None):
>     if x is None:
>         x = SomethingMutable
>     ...

If I understand this, you are proposing that if a default is
'mutable', then extra magic be added to re-initialized (somehow) on
every call.  This is, of course, possible -- once you rigorously
define 'mutable' (see 3,4. below) for this context and add a boolean
ismutabledefault() function that works for all possible default
objects -- and define what  'SomethingMutable' is at call time (see 2.
below).  But I think there are arguments against a more complex rule
that some defaults are evaluated upon definition and some upon call.
(Or are you proposing that all defaults be re-evaluated?  If so, then
why have defaults?)

> [For those about to mention the "But what if you really want x to be
> None?" objection, one can simply use a private sentinel object.]

Ugh.  None *is* a (public, global) sentinel object.  Making it do some
automagical special-case switcheroo behind the scenes in one
particular context would complexify the language.  Making people do
something more complex to get an obvious simple result strikes me as a
wrong direction to go.

Other questions/objections:

1. What if one really wants x to be initialized just once - so that
changes *are* carried over from call to call.

2. Suppose the default is, for instance, [a] instead of [], where a is
a global variable.  Will this get the magic treatment?  If so, will
call-time SomethingMutable be the result of evaluating '[a]' at that
time or a copy of a secret, user-inaccessible, stashed-away object
consisting of '[a]' evaluated at definition-time?  If a copy, how
deep?  There is no difference for [] and {}, but there is for most
everything else.  Either choice will be confusing for people who
expect the other, and annoying to people who want the other.

3. Suppose the default is, for instance, ([],).  Considered
superficially (ie, looking only at its outer wrapper, its 'skin'), it
is not mutable  But looking at it as a composite, a layered whole, it
is.  A user who expects [] to be freshed at every call is likely to
expect the same of ([],).  Do you propose to make it so?

4. Do objects currently have a 'mutable' flag?  If you, what do you do
with user-added extension types?

5. Once you start down the road of giving the illusion or actuality of
runtime execution, I suspect that some people will start to expect the
same of all default expressions.

> I don't see a real compelling reason why, if you were to design a
language
> from scratch, you _wouldn't_ want this behavior

As indicated above, 'this behavior' needs more specification.  And
there are reasons to want the current behavior where there is a
difference.

> -- given the unending amount of confusion this feature causes.

Some versions of 'this behavior' could be even more confusing.

> It's pretty obvious why it was done in the implementation --
> because it's the easiest obvious implementation

There is a lot to be said for easy, obvious, and therefore
maintainable-as-bug-free implementations.  Given a facility for
default binding (which could be omitted, of course), there are two
choices of when to create the object bound to a particular parameter:
upon definition and upon call.  Given the latter, there are two
subchoices: copy (to some depth) a hidden master object created at
definition time or re-execute the default expression code.  For a set
of params there two types of choice sets: all the same (choice 1 (the
current behavior), choice 2a (how deep?), or choice 2b) or a mixture
(with probable problems and confusions).

Terry J. Reedy




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 13 08:34:15 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:34:15 GMT
Subject: Calling methods in embedded python
References: <aqr9a8$qig$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>
Message-ID: <rxsA9.4294$744.143800@news1.tin.it>

Krzysztof Wasilewski wrote:
   ...
> PyObject* PyInstance_New(PyObject *class, PyObject *arg, PyObject *kw)
> 
> Return value: New reference.
> Create a new instance of a specific class. The parameters arg and kw are
> used as the positional and keyword parameters to the object's constructor
> ...........................
> 
> What should be passed for kw? I tried an empty tuple, an empty list,
> PyNone and other things, but in vain. The constructor of the classes I
> want to use take either no parameters or a single parameter without a key.
> What should I do?

NULL, 0, or an empty dictionary object, are what you could pass as
kw in this case.  However, you might as well use PyObject_CallObject,
as you say you already do when you know the callable object is a
function: you can use PyObject_CallObject to call ANY callable,
including a class (and when you call a class, the instance is the
call's result, as it would be in Python source).  More generally, I
suggest using the higher-level, abstract functions PyObject_<whatever>
unless you have some specific reason to use "concrete-type", lower
level functions instead.


Alex



From bh at intevation.de  Tue Nov 19 07:24:55 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 13:24:55 +0100
Subject: Perl to python convertor
References: <3dd94531$1@news.mt.net.mk> <mailman.1037662471.17451.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6q7kf9agrs.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:

> ?????? ?. wrote:
> > Is there such a beast, 
> > I have a perl module for a protocol that's not supported in Python
> > (SMPP). I think it doesn't use much more than plain Perl but I'm not a
> > perl expert.
> 
> no, i don't think there is something that would work for you. 

I've never used it, but maybe bridgekeeper would work:
http://www.crazy-compilers.com/

It's marked as "experimental" and the web-site says 

   Theoretically

      it's possible to convert every Perl programm into an equivalent
      programm written in Python since both languages are
      turing-complete (at least they should ;-)

   Practically
      this is nearly impossible since Perl and Python have a very
      differt style of expressing things.


I have no idea whether it actually works, though.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/


From Andreas.Leitgeb at siemens.at  Mon Nov 11 11:11:09 2002
From: Andreas.Leitgeb at siemens.at (Andreas Leitgeb)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:11:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <slrnasvo0e.32k.Andreas.Leitgeb@pc7499.gud.siemens.at>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> (defun Hpp (x s z)
>   #i(sqrt(Vpp(x s z)-gamma)/(x^2+s^4) -
>      exp(sin(Tpp(x s))/(2*b1(x s)))))

I once came in touch with lisp/scheme, when I tried to modify
one of the card-games in AisleRiot.  The games themselves are 
written in scheme, and make heavy use of  "and" and "or" to
achieve the effect of lots of nested if-else-constructs.

Maybe it's not the lisp-syntax itself, that is so ugly, but
rather the (seemingly typical) coding-style.

I quote one function from AisleRiot  (game Kansas):
" (define (button-pressed slot-id card-list)
"  (and (not (= (length card-list) 0))
"       (is-visible? (car card-list))
"       (or (= slot-id 1)
"           (> slot-id 5))))
If you still find this readable, then look at "button-released"
 immediately following in kansas.scm  (same structure but two 
 pages long and deeper nested)

PS: Not to mention that the error messages for runtime errors
  are far from being helpful - compared to tcl's exception 
  tracebacks.



From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov  5 13:26:53 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:26:53 GMT
Subject: List slice assignment and custom sequences
References: <mailman.1036276862.18969.python-list@python.org> <m2k7jsm7u7.fsf@python.net> <hLGdnSSYIucvlVWgXTWcpA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <7h3r8dz27ul.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

> Ronald Oussoren <oussoren at cistron.nl> writes:
> 
> > No, I want to replace part of a sequence by another sequence. I
> don't
> > understand _why_ the RHS must be a list if the LHS is one.
> 
> The immediate, begging-the-question answer is that that is how slice
> assignment is defined and hence, how it is programmed.  Lang Ref 6.3:
> "If the target is a slicing: The primary expression in the reference
> is evaluated. It should yield a mutable sequence object (e.g., a
> list). The assigned object should be a sequence object of the same
> type."
> 
> But why define it so?  Possibly simple pragmatics -- its easiest to
> program that way (as per M. Hudson's answer).

I'm 99% sure this is what happened -- I think list_ass_subscript is
very old code, possibly even predating __getitem__ on instances (if
there was such a time).

> The other is the constant dilemma facing the language definer: if
> something could be correct, but could be an error, should the
> interpreter raise a flag?  or do the 'obvious' thing? -- which in
> this case is to call list() or act as if it had been (which would
> actually be more efficient).  Error in this case seems unlikely
> enough that generalization seems reasonable.

One of the things used to be that handling user defined sequences is
subtle -- consider:

class Evil:
    def __len__(self):
        return 9
    def __getitem__(self, i):
        raise IndexError

Blindly trusting the answer of PyObject_Length() can easily lead to
core dumps.  But now Python has this wonderful PySequence_Fast API
that wraps up all the nasty details while keeping the common case
fast, so supporting user-defined sequences is now trivial.

Everyone writing C extensions should know about PySequence_Fast().

> A third answer is inertia.  Python has been moving to a more
> generalized notion of sequence and even iterable but slice assignment
> got overlooked -- until you gave a push.

Indeed.

> We'll see what happens for 2.3.

He pushed; it fell :)

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  "Also, does the simple algorithm you used in Cyclops have a name?"
  "Not officially, but it answers to "hey, dumb-ass!"
                       -- Neil Schemenauer and Tim Peters, 23 Feb 2001


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sun Nov  3 18:37:20 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:37:20 -0500
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on OS/390 V2R10
References: <3dc40ef1_1@news.vo.lu> <us8rhmg4f2iac1@news.supernews.com> <3dc50045_2@news.vo.lu> <usa9i1cbjampc6@news.supernews.com> <ducx9.80943$TD1.3668663@news2.tin.it> <pn14qa.9l3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <usbceb82kptla1@news.supernews.com>

"Dennis Lee Bieber" <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:pn14qa.9l3.ln at beastie.ix.netcom.com...
> <posted & mailed>
>
> Alex Martelli fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 03 November 2002
> 08:51 am:
>
>
> > Me, I remember Rexx as a pretty good scripting language back from
> > the '80s, when I worked for IBM -- Rexx is what first gave me the
> > taste for using "scripting" languages wherever feasible.  I hear it
> > also took roots in the Amiga world, and I assume it must have
> > grown and developed in the 14 years since I last used it, but I
> > haven't kept track.  But what do you think is "a typical kludge"
> > about it?
> >
>         ARexx was essentially the only supplied programming language
on the
> Amiga once AmigaBASIC was no longer updated (ie, about v2.x of the OS,
> or anyone with lots of RAM -- M$ had designed AmigaBASIC such that
they
> were storing status bits in the upper 8-bits of address registers
> (expecting no one to need more than 24-bits of address). ARexx /did/
> change the I/O system somewhat -- much cleaner than what my various
> REXX books show as normal IBM operations. It also took advantage of
the
> Amiga's message-passing IPC system, with the result that it became the
> macro language for many applications (if you must, it was the
> equivalent of VBA in Office -- except it was still stand-alone also).
> Multiple ARexx programs could talk to each other this way.
>
>         One feature of REXX that is often useful is that any
statement/command
> that is not recognized as part of the language itself is passed to the
> "command interpreter" (shell) that the program is running in. No need
> for things like "os.system(external_command)" -- just put
> "external_command" as the statement to be executed. This comes in real
> handy if the "command interpreter" is really another application --
the
> commands then can be commands for that application

That's actually one of the things I dislike about it. It's a major
philosophy
difference: to me, scripting languages are built around the assumption
that
the purpose of the script is to issue system commands, and the remainder
of the language is in a supporting role. It leads to real interesting
language
design problems, especially in extensibility and understandability.

Languages like Python, Perl and Ruby take the opposite approach: you
suffer a bit more pain in issuing a system command, and  you get a lot
of language benefits from that.

It's also the reason I called it a "typical kludge." When you start out
with
the notion of a list of commands, and then start enhancing the stream to
add functions, you wind up kludging lots of stuff.

However, this is not a discussion that is going anywhere. People seem
to have their likes and dislikes, and maintain them with almost
religious
fervor.

John Roth






From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Nov 25 01:01:07 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:01:07 -0800
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <m8nmra.tk4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arog76$ed5$0@216.39.172.122> <3lgpra.de5.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arrquu$jd2$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3besra.ahd.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Bengt Richter fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 24 November 2002 
04:30 pm:

> I've coded recursive algorithms using 1970's fortran, where all
> storage was statically allocated as far as the language and its
> implementation at the time was concerned. Fortran didn't give me the
> recursive concept to work with (nor to learn, if I had been ignorant
> of the concept). It didn't stop me, but no reasonably workable
> programming language can *stop* you, in theory at least. Drudgery is a
> real and practical obstacle though ;-)

        As I recall, that was one of the assignments in my advanced FORTRAN 
class (and in those days, we didn't even have FORTRAN 77 to work 
with!). Essentially the conversion of recursive algorithms to iterative 
structures.

> I think you are reinforcing my point that the abstractions are the
> important things. Python is certainly not an exclusive source of
> useful abstractions to think with, but it makes them unusually
> accessible and fun to use concretely, and that makes it more likely
> that a programming newbie will learn them early on.
>
        Agree that Python (and a few other languages) do offer much more 
"high-level" concepts -- have you noticed most of those languages are 
also traditionally implemented as interpreters vs true native 
compilers? I think where we differ is that I feel one needs a grounding 
in computer science theory to realize how to take language constructs 
and extrapolate to the abstract underpinnings -- the stuff one gets 
exposed to in things courses on "data structures", "algorithms", 
"language design" (not compiler design)... Classes that are independent 
of any given language (for fun, try implementing a "hashed-head, 
multiple linked list" algorithm using an early 70s BASIC that only 
allowed for FOUR open data files at a time <G> -- in 25 years I've only 
seen ONE place where that structure was used in a way that was visible 
to a user: The AmigaOS filesystem).

> you are presumably referring to getinterval, which operates on arrays

        No, at least I don't remember that operator by name.

> or strings? That's defined to share with the original, AFAIK. Are you
> saying the program you fixed made the wrong assumption, or are you
> saying PostScript should make copies? That's a change, if that's so
> now, I think. Is there another operator name that does that (I
> wouldn't think they'd want to break backward compatibility with old
> level 1 printers)?
>
        The wordprocessor preamble files would have worked perfectly with a 
PostScript printer. What I had could be considered very rudimentary 
preludes to ghostscript; these programs supposedly interpreted 
PostScript and generated bitmaps to be sent to the Amiga printer 
drivers (which only handled ASCII text OR a graphic image which they 
could scale to the printer page -- the wordprocessor native graphic 
output was at screen resolution, 72DPI, which was terrible on anything 
more modern than an MX80 printer). The problem is that the people who 
implemented these (SaxonScript was the second one I had) did /not/ 
follow the full PostScript specifications -- they took simplifications, 
like copying substrings to new memory rather than tracking pointers 
into the original string -- with the result that the sneaky stuff done 
in some wordprocessor preamble files would fail. I had to modify the 
preambles to work with the problems in the interpreters.

> That's the pleasant part of having broad experience. But if you
> totally ignore the constraints of the language you are about to be
> forced by circumstance to use, you may get into expensive work against
> the grain (not to mention your gag reflex ;-).
>
        <heh> Are you describing my assignment of two years ago? The design 
was valid, the implementation /did/ work in the end... But VMS ASTs are 
/not/ a good substitute for a POSIX threading implementation...

> If you then reconsider, and think using the subset of abstractions
> easily implementable or already available in the language to be used,
> then I would call this pragmatically restricted thinking "thinking in"
> the particular language. Of course languages overlap, so some common
> denominator stuff may not suggest that thinking with it is "in" any
> particular language.
>
        Well, at one level (I've always considered myself one step below that, 
based on the way my former employer split job titles) you don't know 
what language will be used to implement a design (our "chief system 
engineers" knew very little, if anything, about coding -- one of them 
was using something on par with late '60s BASIC!) Granted, they usually 
obtained advice from the peons, but the actual system design had no 
language specific concessions. Us peons then had to take this appoved 
design and develop the software design for it -- and may have had 
little, if no, choice of language.
 


-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Nov 14 15:12:32 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 15:12:32 -0500
Subject: An evangelist's handbook? (Was: Re: Making a better textbook)
References: <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list@python.org> <usnipihg3okna2@corp.supernews.com> <d6dae77c.0211081300.c94f95a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ar103g$6tf$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <d6dae77c.0211081300.c94f95a at posting.google.com>,
Ben Wiedermann <benalan at cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>
>In my experience, the "encapsulation" problem is a significant hurdle.
>And it seems to me that folks who came to object-oriented programming
>from procedural programming seem to have a harder time overcoming the
>hurdle than those who have known only object-oriented programming.
>Strange.

Maybe.  Speaking as someone who learned BASIC, Pascal, Ada, C, and
FORTRAN long before learning a real object-oriented language, my opinion
is that most OO languages try to *force* OOP in a way that makes it much
harder to grasp.  Python makes it easy.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?


From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov 13 06:16:28 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:16:28 GMT
Subject: call by reference (c module)
References: <mailman.1037175443.12760.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h33cq5205h.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Brian Lee <senux at senux.com> writes:

> Hi, I am newbie!
> 
> (1) call by reference
> 
> I am trying to make a simple C module. Follow is a brief example
> for my situation. How can I use `call by reference' to put argument 
> value to C module?
> 
> a = 1
> import some_c_module      
> some_c_module.function(a) # function change variable a to 2
> print a                   # I want a to be 2 (not 1)

Can't be done.  You could try reading one of these pages:

  http://effbot.org/guides/python-objects.htm
  http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html

to get some understanding of why.

Actually, that's a slight lie; but

 ((PyIntObject*)ob)->ob_ival++;

is a *REALLY* bad idea: you would then have

>>> a = 1
>>> import some_c_module      
>>> some_c_module.function(a) # function change variable a to 2
>>> print a 
2
>>> 1
2 # oops!

don't even think of doing this -- I only mention this to discourage
you, so if you hadn't thought of this, forget the last few lines of my
post...

> (2) un-fixed size of arguments to a C module.
> 
> Is there any (easy) way to put un-fixed size of arguments to a
> C module? I tested PyArg_ParseTuple() but I don't know how to
> manage un-fixed size of values with it. 

Optional arguments are easy; just use the | character in the arglist
parameter to PyArg_ParseTuple.

For more flexible behaviour, noone says you have to call
PyArg_ParseTuple... it's just a convenience function.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  My hat is lined with tinfoil for protection in the unlikely event
  that the droid gets his PowerPoint presentation working.
                               -- Alan W. Frame, alt.sysadmin.recovery


From rmunn at pobox.com  Sun Nov 17 15:11:36 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:11:36 GMT
Subject: Redirect question
References: <fa576652.0211170745.2328fe56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnatfu7r.7ah.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Karsten Weinert <k.weinert at gmx.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a question about redirecting. Here is a small program I found
> on the web which I slightly modified; but now it does not run:
> 
> import win32ui, sys
> 
> class Redirect:
>   def __init__(self):
>     self.s=""
>   def write(self, s):
>     self.s+=s
>   def flush(self):
>     win32ui.MessageBox(s)
> 
> sys.stdout = sys.stderr = Redirect()

Have you tried having Redirect be a subclass of file?

> 
> print 'Hidey Ho'

Does this actually call sys.stdout.write(), or some other method? It's
been too long since I experimented with this type of approach.

> sys.stdout.flush()
> 
> I was expecting that when I call .flush() the MessageBox pops up. But
> nothing happens (Python 2.2 on Win98, the program passed to python.exe
> with a file).
> 
> I am looking for such a "delayed" Output because many error messages
> are multi-line, so redirecting brings up several messageboxes for each
> error. So I would like to do
> 
> try:
>   assert 1==0
> finally:
>   sys.stderr.flush()
> 
> to get one messagebox only.
> Can you advise me how I can fix above program or get the wanted
> feature on an other way?
> 
> Kind regards,
> Karsten.

Sorry I couldn't offer more help, but I hope this gives you some idea at
least of an approach to take to solving your problem.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 12:53:45 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:53:45 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <874rabdo3t.fsf@key.localdomain> <5r6D9.50977$Yw.2347638@news2.tin.it> <3DDD08BA.6060804@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <J49D9.52254$Yw.2391644@news2.tin.it>

Kenny Tilton wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
>> Macros let you design a different language on top of whatever language
>> you have (that supports full-power macros).  That's my major beef with
>> them,...
> 
> different bad, additional good. :) ie, don't use macros to come up with

I disagree that the ability to make a language bigger is generally good.

It may be in the hands of a highly skilled language designer.  But far
too many people who aren't fancy themselves to be.  I'm happier to work
in a language where I don't have to struggle with THAT.

> a better keyword than IF, use it to add something new to the language.
> 
> My Cells project does sick things with CLOS, and all with a couple of
> macros. Instead of DEFCLASS I have DEFMODEL which does a ton of stuff
> with which the user /really/ need not be concerned. But without macros I
> either have to buy a Lisp vendor and change the language, or cut and
> paste huge wadges of internal wiring to make a new class, carefully
> working through it changing all FOOs to BARs.
> 
> Well, tell you what, if I manage to port Cells to Python we'll be able
> to compare. Possibly some cool Python feature will offset the loss of
> macros. Metaclasses?

It depends on what all you're doing in your defmodel macro.  There
_are_ language additions, as well as modifications, that macros can
do and OO mechanisms can't, exactly because OO mechanisms don't let
you change the language -- not even metaclasses, of course.

I'm hard put to think of something I'd *want* to do, apart from
syntax sugar and control structures, that would fall under that
classification, but there must be SOME thing or other, of course:
no language is perfect, so the temptation to change it "for the
better of course" would always be there if I had macros.

That's why I'm happier not to have them.


Alex




From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 26 13:55:41 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 18:55:41 GMT
Subject: Making termios.tcdrain() work with threads?
Message-ID: <3de3c3ad$0$22225$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

I've noticed that calling termios.tcdrain(fd) (under Unix)
blocks all threads instead of just the calling thread.  This is
making life a bit diffucult for me, so I'm going to take a
crack at making it work "right".  Before I try, is there any
particular reason why it should behave the way it does now?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Is this ANYWHERE,
                                  at               USA?
                               visi.com            


From rpm at wag.caltech.edu  Wed Nov 27 12:56:05 2002
From: rpm at wag.caltech.edu (Richard Muller)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:56:05 -0800
Subject: python blender newbie
Message-ID: <as30vf$c4u$1@naig.caltech.edu>

I'm new to Blender scripting in Python. Can someone point me to a good 
place to get up to speed. I already know about the 
http://www.blender.org and http://www.blender3d.org web sites, and am 
looking for something a bit more Python-centric.

Thanks in advance,

Rick



From holla-pub at gmx.de  Wed Nov 27 16:24:58 2002
From: holla-pub at gmx.de (Jens Wolk)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:24:58 +0100
Subject: ddd debugger ignores breakpoints
Message-ID: <as3d43$noicm$1@ID-146328.news.dfncis.de>

Hi everybody,

on a RedHat 7.3 system I try to get ddd working for me as Python debugger.

Versions (out of the box versions of the RH distribution):
Python 2.2
ddd 3.3.1

I do so by starting the debugger with
   ddd -pydb

Then I select File->Open Source ... and navigate to an sophisticated (tm) 
hello.py which contains the following lines:
print "Hello World"
print "Hello World2"

On both lines I set breakpoints and then hit "Run"-"Continue"-"Continue" ... 
and the complete code is executed without stopping at a breakpoint. Why is 
that so?

BTW, I evaluate ddd because I didn't find a way with pdb.py to display the 
line which it will evaluate next (and some lines before and afterwards, 
preferably). Is there a way to do this?

Any hints are very welcome.

Jens Wolk

Following the output of the above described session:

GNU DDD 3.3.1 (i386-redhat-linux-gnu), by Dorothea Ltkehaus and Andreas 
Zeller.
Copyright  1995-1999 Technische Universitt Braunschweig, Germany.
Copyright  1999-2001 Universitt Passau, Germany.
(Pdb) file 
/home/jenswolk/prefect_netdrive/share/bund/example_code/swap/hello.py
Hello world
Hello world2
(Pdb) break hello.py:1
Breakpoint 1, at hello.py:1.
(Pdb) break hello.py:2
Breakpoint 2, at hello.py:2.
(Pdb) run
Starting program:
Issue "continue" command
(pydb) cont
Issue "continue" command
(pydb) cont
Hello world
Hello world2
--Return--
Issue "continue" command
(pydb) 


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov  8 00:59:56 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 05:59:56 GMT
Subject: Question about drawing simple graph in Python?
References: <mailman.1036730290.879.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqfjss$k12$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:37:43 -0800 (PST), Mindy <csshi99 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>I have two lists, say:
>list1 = ['s1','s2','s1','s3'...]
>list2 = ['t1','t2','t3','t3'...]
>
>I want to draw a simple graph, with 's1' points to
>'t1', which means drawing one line between 's1' and
>'s2' and an arrow pointed to 't1'. (for i in
>range(len(list1), there's an edge between list1[i] and
>list2[i]). So how to draw this graph in Python? I
>searched on google but didn't find some easy way to
>implement this. Thanks for any hints!
>
First of all, I suspect you have some typos. Second, you
don't say how a string like 's1' or 't1' is supposed to
be translated to end point coordinates of an 'edge'. Do
you have a dictionary of coordinates?

Third, there's no clue as to what you are using or hope
to use for drawing. tkinter? PIL?

Your other post is even less clear to me. Pretend you are
someone else reading your stuff carefully, but knowing
_nothing_ about your situation to start with.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jack98lau at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  6 20:36:45 2002
From: jack98lau at hotmail.com (Jack Lau)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:36:45 +0800
Subject: How to use zipfile
References: <3dc8c6b3$1@shknews01> <baad20ed.0211060458.2753d817@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3dc9c3e1@shknews01>

Thank you very much!

"Thorsten Goertz" <thorsten at goertz.com> ???g???l???s?D
:baad20ed.0211060458.2753d817 at posting.google.com...
> I use it in this way:
>
> import zipfile
> archive = zipfile.ZipFile( "abc.zip", "w", zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED )
> source = "a.txt"
> destination = source
> archive.write( source, destination )
> archive.close( )
>
> I'd prefer to create a "virtual directory" in the root of the zipfile
> (with destination = os.path.join( "abc", source ). Archives without
> this virtual root directory sometimes caused trouble to me. I unzipped
> an archive and contaminated the current directory with a lot of files
> that I expected to be in a subdir that has been named like the
> archive...
>
>
> "Jack Lau" <jack98lau at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<3dc8c6b3$1 at shknews01>...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am a beginner to learn python. Could anyone tell me how to use
zipfile. I
> > want to zip a file like "a.txt" and zipped it into "abc.zip". Then how
can I
> > do ?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!




From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Nov 18 21:19:22 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:19:22 -0800
Subject: Access to Python/SQL
References: <24vitu0d93ksc5biv4re3gr3d1ocntpqli@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a37cra.j65.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

C42 fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 18 November 2002 04:53 pm:

> I currently have several Microsoft Access databases.
> 
> My long term goal is to move the data to an SQL server and create
> web-based front-ends using Python to access them.
> 
> Does anyone have any recommendations?
> 
> Is there a framework and/or web app server that would make this easy?
>
        hmmm....

        Zope and the applicable ODBC (or database specific) plugins?

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Nov 19 21:17:02 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:17:02 -0600
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.11.20.00.36.48.441121@battleface.com> ("Alexander
 Sendzimir"'s message of "Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:27:33 GMT")
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com>
	<pan.2002.11.19.13.54.54.356611@battleface.com>
	<mailman.1037751635.2665.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2002.11.20.00.36.48.441121@battleface.com>
Message-ID: <m2ptt1ugrl.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Alexander" == Alexander Sendzimir <lists at battleface.com> writes:

    Alexander> Why re and no sre?

As I understand it, sre is an update to the regex engine of 1.5.2.
The module re.py is a compatibility wrapper which imports sre.  From
python 2.2.2's re.py:

engine = "sre"
# engine = "pre"

if engine == "sre":
    # New unicode-aware engine
    from sre import *
    from sre import __all__
else:
    # Old 1.5.2 engine.  This one supports 8-bit strings only,
    # and will be removed in 2.0 final.
    from pre import *
    from pre import __all__

So there is nothing wrong with importing sre, but import re does the
same thing on any reasonably modern system and is (AFAIK) The Way
To Do It <wink>.

>From the Library Reference:

   *Implementation note:* The `re' module has two distinct
    implementations: `sre' is the default implementation and includes
    Unicode support, but may run into stack limitations for some
    patterns.  Though this will be fixed for a future release of
    Python, the older implementation (without Unicode support) is
    still available as the `pre' module.

John Hunter




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 13 16:16:27 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 22:16:27 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C5C8C6C305Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <m3y97xqifo.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> > - there must be tools to process the resulting XML, such tools are
> >   currently not available. We would require HTML, Latex, and texinfo
> >   output, perhaps Windows CHM (whatever that is) as well. No such
> >   tools are available at the moment.
> 
> I believe this to be wrong.
>  HTML, PS (guessing that's why you want Latex?) Windows help and PDF
> are all available for docbook. 

Yes, it is possible to produce HTML and PS. No, it is not possible to
generate the HTML and PS that we want. I can generate HTML from
/vmlinuz, by means of 

print "<html><body></body></html>"

but that doesn't make the HTML generation useful.

>  Did you have the same trouble moving from plain text to \latex?

That was never necessary: Python documentation was LaTeX from start
(AFAIR - I think it was FrameMaker at some point, and was converted to
LaTeX - but that was before I contributed to it; FrameMaker would be
fine for me as well).

> Just curious why you aren't using quills/biro's.

Never heard of either quills or biros (ok, it's just not in my
vocabulary).

Regards,
Martin


From oracle_vs_ms at yahoo.dk  Fri Nov  8 08:39:57 2002
From: oracle_vs_ms at yahoo.dk (Peter Lorenzen)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 05:39:57 -0800
Subject: How to identify user defined Python exception in Java (Jython)?
Message-ID: <18eef4ae.0211080539.46115a50@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have defined my own EtError exception like this:

interp.exec
( "class EtError(Exception): \n"+
  "    def __init__(self, value): \n"+
  "        self.value = value \n"+
  "    def __str__(self): \n"+
  "       return `self.value` \n"
);

I throw it here:

interp.exec
( "def pow(*args): \n"+
  "    if len(args) != 2: \n"+
  "       raise EtError('powError') \n"+
  "    return  __builtin__.pow(*args) \n"
);

In my Java program I catch a PyException. I can catch Py.SyntaxError
and Py.NameError fine. But when I catch my own EtError I have no way
of identify it. In value I get ?org.python.core.PyInstance at 2f60ce' not
?powError' as I expected and getMessage/text is null. How do I
identify my exception? Does anybody know?

Regards,
Peter Lorenzen


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Nov  8 13:41:47 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:41:47 -0600 
Subject: complicated class question
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D03C69@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Fred Clift [mailto:fclift at verio.net]
> 
> My problem has to do with looking for a way to override methods in a
> system library that I dont want to modify, that is used in a 3rd party
> library that I dont want to modify.
> 

## A.py
class a:
 ....


## B.py
class b:
 ....

Right?

> 
> I'd like to get b to use a modified version a, without having 
> to change the code of either.
> 

OK, something like:

## C.py

import A
import B

class new_a:
 ....

# Save the original 'a' in '_a',
# install 'new_a' in it's place.
A._a = A.a
A.a = new_a

b = B.b()

## b should use new_a now.

Did this work?

-gustavo



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 10 13:05:38 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:05:38 +0000
Subject: CGI download CSV
References: <ujcssu89sl9gd6chg1n42hm4o7m2819gje@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3DCE9FF2.78906B04@hotmail.com>

Simon Faulkner wrote:

> My Python CGI program generates a .CSV file and I would like Windows
> users to be able to download it via their web browser.
> 
> How do i set about this?

A glance at google groups shows at least four related threads

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=s4eaf07a.037%40mail.conservation.state.mo.us&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dfile%2Bdownload%2Bdisposition%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3CDAFA76.9050508%40nmt.edu&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dfile%2Bdownload%2Bdisposition%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=ed6d1c1a.0202121225.295ca950%40posting.google.com&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dfile%2Bdownload%2Bdisposition%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=8laf1u01jd2%40news2.newsguy.com&rnum=7&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dfile%2Bdownload%2Bdisposition%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.* 

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From derek at wedgetail.com  Wed Nov  6 00:34:19 2002
From: derek at wedgetail.com (Derek Thomson)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 05:34:19 GMT
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <3dc3dc4e$0$12762$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <aq1235$h36$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <vR1y9.45$8%5.8453@news.optus.net.au>

GerritM wrote:
> "Derek Thomson" <derek at wedgetail.com> schreef in bericht
> news:3dc3dc4e$0$12762$afc38c87 at news.optusnet.com.au...
> <...snip...>
> 
>>Then there's the fact that it takes between 5-10 lines of Java to do the
>>same thing in Python, depending on what you're doing. Having a very high
>>level language, as opposed to a high level one, definitely helps
>>refactoring in that there's much less code to refactor. Look at the size
>>of Fnorb (*), compared to Java ORBs. Or just look at the size of the
>>Fnorb IDL compiler ... and it's even readable. I know which I'd like to
>>be refactoring.
>>
>>(*) http://fnorb.org
>>
> 
> <...snip...>
> Do you by any means have the data at hand (kloc's for Java, kloc's for
> comparable Python; ORB and/or IDL compiler)? I am highly interested in any
> substantiated evidence with respect to language efficiency/expressiveness.

Nope, I was just replying based on my feelings for an average task, 
which was the tone of the OP. Think about how difficult it is to do the 
equivalent of a list slice assigment in Java, for example.

For some harder numbers, I compared JacORB (a Java ORB) to Fnorb (a 
Python ORB), and Fnorb is about one half the lines of code of JacORB, 
just for the core ORB itself.

Now, that's for an ORB, which is low level enough (marshalling and 
unmarshalling data on-the-wire, and connection management), that it 
doesn't play too well to Python's expressiveness. But still, that's 
quite a difference.

As the application becomes higher level, I'd expect the gains to be much 
greater.

--
D.



From neal at metaslash.com  Mon Nov 18 17:02:30 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:02:30 -0500
Subject: tempfile.mktemp() and symlink attacks
References: <3ygu9.105734$La5.330766@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <arbkkp$51t$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.18.22.02.30.8156.12688@metaslash.com>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:04:25 -0500, Aahz wrote:

> [I'm reposting this because nobody followed up to it.  I tried doing
> some research because I know there have been changed for Python 2.3, but
> I wasn't able to find the relevant posts on python-dev.]

Search for postings by Zack Weinberg.  It was also mentioned in the
DDJ python-list weekly summary.

> In article <3ygu9.105734$La5.330766 at rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, Kent Hu
> <kenthu at kenNOSPAMthu.net> wrote:
>>Is using tempfile.mktemp() vulnerable to symlink attacks?  The reason I
>>ask is that the documentation for os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam() has
>>warnings about symlink attacks, but the documentation for
>>tempfile.mktemp() does not.  Also, running os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam()
>>actually brings a RuntimeWarning, while I tried comparing the
>>implementations, but couldn't find the source for os.tempnam() and
>>os.tmpnam() in os.py (I'm using version 2.2.1).

os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam() come from Modules/posixmodule.c.
So they are as vulnerable as the underlying implementation
(ie, probably vulnerable).

>>Now, if tempfile.mktemp() is vulnerable, I think the docs should say so.
>>And if it's not vulnerable, the docs for os.tempnam() and os.tmpnam()
>>should refer readers to tempfile.mktemp() instead of os.tmpfile(), since
>>tempfile.mktemp() is more functionally similar.

Probably, but it should be caveated that it depends on the underlying
libc.  Patches are always welcome.

Neal


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov 22 15:12:00 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 20:12:00 GMT
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org> <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com> <arksfq$bdp$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>
Message-ID: <arm32g$icu$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:13:30 +0000 (UTC), Jarkko Torppa <torppa at staff.megabaud.fi> wrote:

>In article <3ddd8419_3 at omega.dimensional.com>, Mike Brown wrote:
>> As was pointed out, all the delay is in the reading, and it really only
>> happens when dealing with these file-wrapped sockets as returned by
>> urlopen(). They can be on the localhost, even.
>
>Seems that stdio is somehow confused, try this
>
I'm not sure it's a good experiment to eliminate too many things at once.
I.e., how do you know how much you gained by going to os.read and how much
you gained by buffering via bytea.append instead of having urllib do it internally?

I don't have a real handy way to duplicate your experiment (not having BSD on the other box),
but if it's easy for you, I'd be interested in how fast/slow this mod of your test runs:
(change file an url to taste)

=====
#!/usr/bin/python
# turlread.py
import urllib, time

def main():
    starttime = time.time()
    u = urllib.urlopen('http://localhost/4m')
    f = file('file_4m.html','wb')
    length = 0
    while 1:
        bytes = u.read(16 * 1024)
        if bytes == '':
            break
        f.write(bytes)
        length += len(bytes)
    u.close()
    f.close()
    endtime = time.time()
    elapsed = endtime - starttime
    print "bytes: %.1fK; time: %0.3fs (%0d KB/s)" % (
        length / 1024.0, elapsed, length / 1024.0 / elapsed
    )

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

=====

>import urllib, time, os
>
>starttime = time.time()
>u = urllib.urlopen('http://localhost/4m')
>fn = u.fp.fileno()
>bytea = [ ]
>while 1:
>    bytes = os.read(fn, 16 * 1024)
>    if bytes == '':
>        break
>    bytea.append(bytes)
>bytes = ''.join(bytea)
>u.close()
>endtime = time.time()
>elapsed = endtime - starttime
>length = len(bytes)
>print "bytes: %.1fK; time: %0.3fs (%0d KB/s)" % (length / 1024.0, elapsed, length / 1024.0 / elapsed )
>
>On my NetBSD box this gives
>
>bytes: 4096.0K; time: 0.450s (9105 KB/s)
>0.15s user 0.08s system 44% cpu 0.513 total
>vs
>bytes: 4096.0K; time: 14.616s (280 KB/s)
>2.52s user 11.57s system 96% cpu 14.676 total
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 26 19:45:27 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 00:45:27 GMT
Subject: Q: serial port transmit pending count
References: <3de40f51$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net>
Message-ID: <3de415a7$0$22175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3de40f51$1 at news.nz.asiaonline.net>, Colin Brown wrote:

> I am using pySerial to talk to serial ports under Mandrake
> Linux. Does anyone know of a way to find the remaining
> bytecount awaiting transmission please? I tried getting the
> size from the file descriptor but with no luck.

How did you try to get it from the file descriptor?

TIOCOUTQ returns the number of buffered tx chars.  For some
drivers (e.g. 16x50 UARTS) it doesn't appear to include
characters in the hardware FIFO.  For some others, I know it
does.

 import termios,fcntl,struct

 def txCount(fd):
    s = fcntl.ioctl(fd,termios.TIOCOUTQ,TIOCM_zero_str)
    return struct.unpack('I',s)[0]

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Thousands of days of
                                  at               civilians... have produced
                               visi.com            a... feeling for the
                                                   aesthetic modules --


From donnal at donnal.net  Sun Nov 24 07:25:28 2002
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 04:25:28 -0800
Subject: using del() to 'unimport'
Message-ID: <918bc22f.0211240425.68b8c282@posting.google.com>

When the the following module is imported, I want only 'MyClass' (NOT
'Useful' and 'Mixin1') to be publicly accessible.

======= mymodule.py ==================
from utilities import Useful, Mixin1

class MyClass(Useful, Mixin1): pass
======================================


So my question is this: Is it an acceptable Python idiom to use del()
at the end of a module to remove previously imported names from the
global namespace as shown below? Is there a better alternative?

======= mymodule.py ==================
from utilities import Useful, Mixin1

class MyClass(Useful, Mixin1): pass

del(Useful)
del(Mixin1)
======================================


From animeshk at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 25 12:18:41 2002
From: animeshk at yahoo.com (animeshk)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 09:18:41 -0800
Subject: stupid Python/database connection
Message-ID: <4cce07d5.0211250918.5c97a929@posting.google.com>

This is a really stupid question, I know.

I am trying to write an app that might connect to an Interbase
database or an Oracle database, depending on a configuration file.

I have seen some Python code for interfacing with a database, and it
seems to depend on the import statement.  import some-lib-or-another
to access one kind of database, import some-other-lib-or-another to
access another kind of database.  After the import, it's a matter of
calling that database type's "connect" statement.

So . . . how can the decision of what-database-to-use be defferred to
runtime?  When writing, say, a BDE app in Delphi, it would be a simple
matter of what alias to use.  How is this done in Python?

Thanks!


From norbulus at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 10 14:52:29 2002
From: norbulus at hotmail.com (Norbert)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 11:52:29 -0800
Subject: Member variable in object spontaneously turns to None
References: <15a857d.0211092046.549df8c2@posting.google.com> <9Hoz9.16592$XO.765355@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <15a857d.0211101152.7659463c@posting.google.com>

Thanks, and please excuse the unnecessary post. It turns out that the
variable was being surreptitiously modified by another function buried
in multiple layers of recursion, and that I was confused after too
many hours of coding. Not a python issue at all, but a program design
issue.


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Wed Nov 20 13:43:41 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:43:41 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com>


Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:
>>Puzzled. "scale well" to me means "what happens when you try to use it for a
>>big project" or possibly a small project with big runtime resource
>>requirements. CL is great at either, precisely because it can do a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> "Scale well" normaly implies up, but what I mainly meant is that CL doesn't
> scale down well in a couple of ways. One factor are users: CL is a poor
> language for people who don't have, X (say 18) months or so of time to spare
> to learn CL (which includes pretty much everyone except people who want to
> program professionally in CL or language afficados).


> This initial investment is unlikely to be made even by many professional
> programmers who might well profit from using CL, let alone normal users who
> just want to customize their applications, or scientists who need to do a bit
> of programming to handle their data.

Gotcha. well to me this is more about the many libraries available off 
the shelf for Python or Perl thx to the great open source phenomenon, 
not about CL being harder to learn.

> I really wonder what your basis for thinking CL to be very approachable
> is. Specifically, what language(s) do you think would be *less* approachable
> to a "normal" person than CL? Even perl, which is hideously complex (unlike CL
> which is complex, without being hideous), is more approachable in that you can
> do something worthwhile without learning much about Perl ...

Again this is because of the library code available, yes?

> How about the following criteria for approachability of a language:
> 
> 1. it should be easy to do conceptually simple and common things
> 2. it should be easy to do something useful with it
> 3. it should be easy to read other peoples code
> 4. it shouldn't have too many surprises in store (e.g. undefined behavior)
> 
> I think CL fails on all these criteria, for example:
> 
> 1. operations on files and directories.

I don't deal much with that sort of thing in my apps, but I did do a 
poor man's project manager for a CL (before I got up to speed on 
DEFSYSTEM) and I do not recall any problem If Python has a lot of that, 
is that because it was developed for that kind of thing?

> 2. try to write something in 1-100 lines in CL that couldn't easier be
>    written in e.g. python.

I am guessing you mean something where the Python programmer would be 
able to call on libraries? Mind you, I am just getting started on 
Python, but CL can do quite a bit in a little code if you are just 
talking algorithms. Maybe we should have a code-off (ala cook-off). :)

> 3. just think of how many ways there are to express quite similar
>    conditional or looping constructs.

You mean if, when, and cond? when you can ignore, tho most of us 
consider it more self-documenting. cond is just if-elseif-if.

Dolist, dotimes, and the multi-variant do? I don't use Loop, but I think 
I'll break down (after seven years!) and learn it RSN.

Anyway, is a rich language less approachable? I just started with a 
subset and was productive right away (meaning that as I learned more I 
had a laugh looking at code written in the early days).

> 4. try e.g. modifying constant lists or writing a LOOP with undefined
>    behavior, or modifying the (string) keys in a hash-table.

So use C++ and you won't shoot yourself in the foot (or get much done 
either <g>)

By approachable I mean:

   the syntax is very simple: (<verb> noun noun ...)

   interactive (I would say interpreted but in fact some CLs silently 
compile interactive forms and execute the binary)

   documentation available at a keystroke, and apropos to search for 
stuff you suspect is in the language

   true garbage collection (I am /not/ looking forward to reference 
counting or the hoops one has to jump thru to handle cyclic refs)

   untyped variables

Stuff like that. But I am just talking about the language per se, not 
what libraries are available off the shelf. I lean, Lisp is growing, 
libraries will follow. It's a bootstrapping process: more Lispers -> 
more libraries -> more Lispers. And that /will/ be welcome.


-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From andrew.markebo at telia.com  Mon Nov 18 14:23:39 2002
From: andrew.markebo at telia.com (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:23:39 GMT
Subject: Python urllib.urlretrieve vs. Perl getstore
References: <mailman.1037375538.5668.python-list@python.org> <3DD8E107.E7CBA171@yahoo.se>
Message-ID: <m3isyu8ywz.fsf@flognat.myip.org>

Give urllib2.urlretrieve a try, and see if it is better, otherwise,
give one of my urllib-libraries (webification.tgz) a try.

     http://flognat.dyndns.org/hacks/

Hmm which platform BTW, and what built Python? Just thinking if there
might be some knots on the cable if Windows.

     /Andy

-- 
 The eye of the beholder rests on the beauty!


From blalor+dated+1037890690.2bec79 at ithacabands.org  Sat Nov 16 10:09:21 2002
From: blalor+dated+1037890690.2bec79 at ithacabands.org (Brian Lalor)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:09:21 GMT
Subject: Python instead of php
References: <pan.2002.11.16.12.25.12.658252@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <m3wund1rta.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

"Marten Bauer" <Marten.Bauer at gmx.net> writes:

> Is it possible to use python like php as script language to writte
> the Userinterfaces also in html and python?
> 
> Is modpython for apache or Twisted from Tweak Labroratory a possible
> way?

With the recent release of a standalone ZPT/TAL interpreter, I think replacing
PHP with Python is easier than ever.  Out of the box you can interpret TAL
templates with relative ease simply by passing in an execution context (which
in my case was just a dict).  Its well worth a look.

--
      Brian Lalor                 |    http://introducingthelalors.org/
  blalor at ithacabands.org (email)  |  blalor at jabber.ithacabands.org (jabber)
                       N33?27.369' W111?56.304' (Earth)


From inyeol.lee at siimage.com  Tue Nov 12 18:43:34 2002
From: inyeol.lee at siimage.com (Inyeol Lee)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:43:34 -0800
Subject: Convert type() to string?
In-Reply-To: <3dd18f77$1_6@nopics.sjc>
References: <s2gA9.47879$Lg2.13805658@news2.news.adelphia.net> <3dd18f77$1_6@nopics.sjc>
Message-ID: <20021112234334.GB13703@siliconimage.com>

type('test').__name__

Inyeol...

On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 06:32:13PM -0500, Adonis wrote:
> Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> t = type('test')
> >>> t
> <type 'str'>
> 
> then just parse the text.
> not the best way but someone will respond with better code.
> 
> hope this helps.
> 
> Adonis



From wilk-spamout at flibuste.net  Sat Nov 30 05:57:05 2002
From: wilk-spamout at flibuste.net (William)
Date: 30 Nov 2002 11:57:05 +0100
Subject: catch output of threads
References: <87of88723i.fsf@flibuste.net> <3DE7FD5F.35EFC6DF@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <87of8772bi.fsf@flibuste.net>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> William wrote:
> 
> > Is it possible to catch the output from print of differents threads ?
> > In a single thread, i can change the value of sys.stdout... but with
> > differents thread i don't know ?
> > 
> > My goal is to make a little server with multithread working on
> > windows without calling an external interpreter (like CGIHTTPServer
> > do).
> 
> For my templating system EmPy -- which is not threaded -- I was forced
> to put together a system where a sys.stdout is replaced with a proxy
> object that can be "pushed and popped" by each evaluation/execution that
> might conceivably use sys.stdout or a print statement, so that the proxy
> object would direct the output to the output stream of the appropriate
> interpreter that was running.
> 
> Unfortunately, though, this doesn't lend itself to a multithreaded
> environment (and is the primary reason why EmPy does not support
> threading), since you could easily encounter deadlocks (if, say, one
> thread stays in an execution loop for an indefinite period).  I don't
> think there's any way to do what you want short of modifying the Python
> interpreter.

I did something who seems to work, thanks to Jeff Epler.
Say me what you think about that :

The OutputThread record output in a dictionary with the ident of thread
as key.
In the end of thread i send the output to the good socket

class OutputThread:
    def __init__(self):
        self.pidout = {}
        self.current_thread = thread.get_ident()
        
    def write(self, ch):
        thread_id = thread.get_ident()

        if thread_id == self.current_thread:
            sys.__stdout__.write(str(ch).upper())
            
        if not self.pidout.has_key(thread_id):
            self.pidout[thread_id] = cStringIO.StringIO()
        self.pidout[thread_id].write(ch)

    
    def envoi(self, stdout):
        thread_id = thread.get_ident()
        if self.pidout.has_key(thread_id):
            stdout.write(self.pidout[thread_id].getvalue())
            del self.pidout[thread_id]
            stdout.flush()
            stdout.close()
            

class Tache(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self, stdin, stdout, environ, to_run):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.stdout = stdout
        self.stdin = stdin
        self.to_run = to_run
        self.environ = environ

    def run(self):
        self.to_run.run(stdout = self.stdout, stdin = self.stdin, environ = self.environ)
        sys.stdout.envoi(self.stdout)

...CGIHTTPServer who run a Tache
sys.stdout = OutputThread()
...run server_forever...

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net


From imbosol at vt.edu  Wed Nov 20 17:54:09 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:54:09 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037828015.2000.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arh41n$gd$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

nandrats at mail.mdanderson.org wrote:
> I just joined the mailinglist and am a complete newbie to python,
> although I have experience in C++ programming.
> 
> Unfortunately, I feel quite irritated by the thread (Why is Python
> popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?) ? I thought that this is a
> python list where every kind of language related question can be
> posed. But this thread in my opinion is getting out of range.
> 
> When somebody considers language X to be superior to language Y,
> then please stick to it and do not try to convince people on a
> mailing list for language Y.
> 
> Besides, I really think that this is a very friendly list, but right
> now, I'm getting more emails about this thread than really relevant
> mails for a newbie!
> 
> It's probably not very diplomatic to complain about it as a newbie,
> but it is more intimidating than helping.


I'm afraid this is a fact of life on programming newsgroups.  I can
tell you that this repartee is mild compared to some of the language
flame wars I've seen (such as flame wars over whether Java has
"references" or "pointers," or on how to pronounce "Linux").

-- 
CARL BANKS


From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Nov 15 19:55:10 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:55:10 -0500
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>
 <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net>
 <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
 <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
 <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
 <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
 <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
 <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
 <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
 <mailman.1037232380.29621.python-list@python.org>
 <Xns92C7562E8169Bdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <udZ19kKkXocR092yn@gnosis.cx>                

|mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.) wrote in
|> Of course, I write a few columns on XML, so I guess I'm prejudiced. :-)

DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> wrote previously:
|If that had been 'in XML' instead of 'on XML' I'd have asked why you
|can't figure it out.

Nope *on*, as in "about" or "concerning."  Take a look for my name at
IBM developerWorks or Intel Developer Services (I'm rather prominent...
I actually may begin an additional column on "XML for Documentation" or
something along those lines).[*]

There was a bit of irony to my remark, btw.  Although I do not claim to
know as much about XML (or DocBook) as Martin does, I know quite a bit.
The more one learns about XML, the less of a glow surrounds the
technology...  I suppose following the trend, those who *truly*
understand XML would never *use* it.

Yours, David...

[*] Do a search for "python xml docbook" on google.  I'm number 11.
(But I wish I could make it to the first page of more searches...  I
guess I'll have to hire one of those search manipulation scamsters :-)).

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




From bloke at ii.net  Thu Nov  7 05:57:27 2002
From: bloke at ii.net (Rob Hall)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 02:57:27 -0800
Subject: wxPython or PyQt
References: <mailman.1036604228.5778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dc965bc$0$12994@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

I found wx to be excellent in comparison to tkinter.  But still found it a
bit unweildly.

I stumbled accross pyqt a few days back and haven't looked back (yet - it
has only been about a week!).

I am having trouble with threads (see other post), but that's probably my
lousy coding.

I am _more_ than happy with pyqt.

Rob




From claird at lairds.com  Mon Nov  4 18:09:18 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 23:09:18 -0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <usdq1tapaekk87@corp.supernews.com> <87vg3dt21t.fsf@simoncozens-2.dsl.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <usdvgusfjjbcd2@corp.supernews.com>

In article <87vg3dt21t.fsf at simoncozens-2.dsl.easynet.co.uk>,
Simon Cozens  <simon at simon-cozens.org> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Particularly myself; in fact, it was named Parrot precisely to represent its
>language-agnosticism. 
>
>The thought is also behind why I wrote the Python::Bytecode module, why I
>learnt Ruby, and why I've been asking interesting questions about access to
>the Ruby AST. 
>
>I don't think the reality is as far away as you imply.
			.
			.
			.
Super!  Being wrong about this would thrill me--that
is, I'd love to see Parrot go as far as we all think
it can.

Simon certainly has worked with this far more than I.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Nov 19 04:56:57 2002
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:56:57 -0700
Subject: simple text editor w/ D&D of hyperlinks
References: <3DD9C593.9080102@mindspring.com> <2vlC9.16014$nK4.41293@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3DDA0AE9.5060703@mindspring.com>

Neil Hodgson wrote:
>    The Mozilla (1.1) on X URL drag format appears incompatible with most
> editors. On Windows, Scintilla can receive the URL text but not on X where
> it is looking for "STRING", "TEXT", "COMPOUND_TEXT", or "text/uri-list"
> formats. OTOH Classic Netscape uses a widely supported drag format.

Yeah, I noticed that.  When I drop a Mozilla URL into XEmacs I only
get the first character.

OTOH, since I'm implementing the app myself, I can special case things
as needed.  Here's my code to dump the Mozilla and Konqueror info in
addition to the normal text versions.


import sys
from qt import *

class YEdit(QTextEdit):
     def __init__(self, *args):
         QTextEdit.__init__(self, *args)
         self.setTextFormat(Qt.RichText)
         self.setText("<qt>Hello <b>World!</b></qt>")
#        self.setAcceptDrops(1)

     def contentsDragEnterEvent(self, evt):
         if evt.provides("text/uri-list"):
             # KDE URL
             evt.accept(1)
         elif evt.provides("text/x-moz-url"):
             # Mozilla URL
             evt.accept(1)
         else:
             QTextEdit.contentsDragEnterEvent(self, evt)

     def contentsDropEvent(self, evt):
         url = None
         if evt.provides("text/uri-list"):
             url = str(evt.encodedData("text/plain"))
             if url[-1:] == "\0":
                 url = url[:-1]
             print "KDE", repr(url)
             evt.acceptAction(1)
         elif evt.provides("text/x-moz-url"):
             # Mozilla URL
             url = str(evt.encodedData("text/plain"))
             print "Mozilla", repr(url)
             evt.acceptAction(1)
         else:
             QTextEdit.contentsDropEvent(self, evt)
             return
         b = self.bold()
         self.setBold(0)
         self.insert("url=")
         self.setBold(1)
         self.insert(url)
         self.setBold(b)

class AppWindow(QMainWindow):
     def __init__(self):
         QMainWindow.__init__(self, None, 'yedit', Qt.WDestructiveClose)
         self._edit = YEdit(self, "Blah")
         self.setCentralWidget(self._edit)

def main(app):
     w = AppWindow()
     app.setMainWidget(w)
     w.show()
     app.exec_loop()

if __name__ == "__main__":
     app = QApplication(sys.argv)
     main(app)

					Andrew
					dalke at dalkescientific.com



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov 16 02:47:25 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 08:47:25 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3LkTqJA8oW19EwDs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m38yzunegi.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ken Starks <straton at lampsacos.demon.co.uk> writes:

> 'search for documentation' the intelligence to respond:
> 
>  * by level of programming skill
>     + you don't get stuff you've know for years
>     + you don't get stuff that is well beyond you

This would be possible to implement *just* by converting the
documentation to XML???? How can the system know what stuff I've known
for years?

>  * with extras, we can add, either in private or in public:
>    + pictures and diagrams
>    + collated threads from the newsgroups
>        | collated by keyword, modules mentioned, author
>    + snippets of code (of  local or general relevance)
>        | task in human language
>        | solution in pseudocode
>        | solution in python
>        | solution in another language ...

That is a property of the resulting documentation system, right? If it
is PDF, I already can add notes to the documentation. If you think you
need the documentation as XML to implement that, just compile the
existing documentation to XML, using the existing compiler - it
appears that this would be possible with no change to the source
format of the documentation.

Regards,
Martin


From greg_new_man at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 20:08:58 2002
From: greg_new_man at yahoo.com (Greg Neumann)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 17:08:58 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <44d4f61c.0211181708.465f5838@posting.google.com>

David Garamond <davegaramond at icqmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list at python.org>...
> yes, that's good and all. the only problem is, most people _don't 
> like_it. they are _allergic_ to ((())). so what gives? the things that 
> will make them like:

There are two things which make me cringe.  1) When a Pythonista
complains about allergies to strange delimiters, and 2) when a Lisper
calls other languages too slow.

Greg Neumann


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sat Nov 23 16:45:43 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 21:45:43 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:

> > I have always been baffled by CLers praising the accessibility of lisp's
> 
> > simple syntax in the same breadth with LOOP and FORMAT (and the syntactic
> > malleability of CL thanks to macros and readtables in general) :)
> 
> Well the context of the "accessibility" thang was for newcomers, so the hairy
> stuff would not affect them.
> 

Of coure LOOP and FORMAT affect newcomers! They are extremely commonly used
constructs, so you will encounter them quite frequently in other people's
code. And even simple uses of LOOP can easily yield misunderstanding unless
you have some fairly good understanding of what it does (the emulation of
plain English is additionally deceptive in this regard):

     (loop for x below 5 for y = nil then x collect (list x y))
          => ((0 nil) (1 1) (2 2) (3 3) (4 4))

as opposed to:

     (loop for x below 5 and y = nil then x collect (list x y))
          => ((0 nil) (1 0) (2 1) (3 2) (4 3))

[from emacs cl manual]

> don't know perl, but the other side of the coin I did not mention is that the
> data is strongly typed.

Hmm, I thought untyped means that variables don't have any type associated
with them at all (like in assembler).

> yes
> 
> > Hmm, but what makes you so optimistic that this will happen (it would be nice,
> > I have to admit)? I mean, CL has been around for quite some time, without ever
> > catching on...
> 
> Well, the battle was decided (temporarily?) in favor of static languages
> during the long decades before systems routinely shipped with ghz processors
> and hundreds mb ram. By the time those systems came along, almost everyone was
> using static languages. Folks don't change easily, so CL still does not get
> used widely.

This explanation has the considerable problem that it would equally have
predicted the miserable failure of Perl, Python, Javascript and I'd guess
Visual Basic.

> 
> 
> But the language upheaval I see (Java, Python, Perl, Ruby) tells me folks are
> still looking for a better way, and as long as they are looking some are bound
> to find there way to the mother of all interactive, dynamic languages.
> 

Sure, if mum doesn't appear a bit grandmothered by then ;)

> 
> > I'm certainly willing to concede that CL still has many strong points when
> > compared to python, but I think Lispers are too ready to dismiss the fact that
> > the reverse is also true, *ignoring* popularity and availability of
> > libraries.
> 
> 
> We Lispers are a little dreamy, so pragmatic advantages don't get as much
> credit as they might. But I for one am porting my Cells project:
> 

Well, it's not just "pragmatic advantages", I do believe that in some points
python's *design* is just superior. Iteration and container classes seem
fairly crufty to me in CL (not knowing CL that well, I might be wrong, in
which case I'd much appreciate to be enlightend).

Everything is rather list-centric. Yes, there are also arrays and hashes, but
they already start to get a bit more awkward to use:

a simple list:        (list 'a 1 'b 2)
a simple hashtable:   (let ((h (make-hash-table)))
                          (setf (gethash 'a h) 1) 
                          (setf (gethash 'b h) 2)
                          h)

Now if you want to define you own collection classes, you're really in for a
hard time:

python:                           CL:                                              

                                   
 x = list[index]                   (elt arrayOrList index)
 x = hash[key]                     (gethash key  hash) ;; *why* this arg-order?
 x = myType[indexOrKey]            ; no generalized item access
                                                                                   

                                                                                   
 del container[indexOrKey]         ; no generalized deletion mechanism

                                  
 container[indexOrKey] = x         (setf (elt arrayOrList index) x)
                                   (setf (gethash key hash) x)
                                   

for item in list:                  (loop for item in list)
    print item

for key in dict:                   (loop for key being the hash-keys of h
    print key                       do (princ key))

for value in dict.values():        (loop for value being the hash-values of h
    print value                     do (princ value))

for item in container:             ; no convienient idiom (?)
    print item


LOOP does offer monstrous complexity, but no mechanism to extend it to handle
anything beyond integers, lists, arrays and hashs. Similarly, functions like
concatenate only know about lists and arrays (which all can't even be
subclassed, right?).

This really looks like quite a big disadvantage in abstraction and
convienience when compared to python.

[Aside: the fact that for python dicts one iterates over keys rather than
values seems like a wart to me, most likely caused by the absence of a set
type (now in 2.3), and the consequent frequent abuse of dicts to represent
sets. The resultant unnecessary discrepancy between the interfaces of mapping
and sequence types is somewhat annoying.]

> 
>    http://www.tilton-technology.com/cells_top.html
> 
> ...to Python /precisely/ (a) to swim in a bigger pond (uh, pond with more
> fish?) and (2) because there is (I hear) a x-platform GUI, TKinter. 

As someone else already mentioned, having a look at pyqt if you can live with
GPL might be worthwhile (not sure about Mac, Qt3 *does* run on macs, but don't
whether the GPL version and python bindings are available), otherwise
wxWindows might also be of interest (not sure how far the Mac support is,
either, though). Tkinter has the advantage that it comes prebundled but pyqt
sports a much nicer design and is infinitely more powerful. I also get the
imporession that Tcl/Tk is somewhat moribund.

> And it's fun learning a new language, recommended so highly by a CL worthy
> such as Norvig.

Ah, it's always good to see people broaden their minds ;)


alex


From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Nov 26 14:58:02 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 19:58:02 GMT
Subject: Making termios.tcdrain() work with threads?
References: <3de3c3ad$0$22225$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <as0joa$1jsc$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards):
| I've noticed that calling termios.tcdrain(fd) (under Unix)
| blocks all threads instead of just the calling thread.  This is
| making life a bit diffucult for me, so I'm going to take a
| crack at making it work "right".  Before I try, is there any
| particular reason why it should behave the way it does now?

I don't think there could be.  I would guess it's that way
because someone underestimated the need for it, at least from
your perspective obviously.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Nov 16 07:35:45 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:35:45 +0000
Subject: wrapping all class methods
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com>
 <mailman.1037385864.30209.python-list@python.org>
 <pan.2002.11.16.12.39.49.262808.1346@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <7HAfWUAhuj19EwTr@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <pan.2002.11.16.12.39.49.262808.1346 at club-internet.fr>, Pedro Rodriguez <pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr> writes

This might be true for a proper program, but in this context
I don't know which exceptions are being silently ignored further
up the chain. So this was an attempt at a quick and dirty diagnostic
 to discover which exceptions were being raised in the backend and
 where they were called from. Anygui has lots of exception handling
 trapping (especially attribute traps) so errors in the backend can
 often go unnoticed.

In practice we do reraise the error so a better example might be

################ tbwrap.py v2
def tracebackAdvice(origMethod, methodName):
        def wrap_traceback_method(*args, **kwargs):
                inst = args[0]
                try:
                        origMethod(*args, **kwargs)
                except:
                        print '[%s.%s]' % (inst.__class__.__name__, methodName)
                        from traceback import print_exc
                        print_exc()
                        print 'stack info'
                        import sys
                        f = sys._getframe(1)
                        while f:
                                co = f.f_code
                                print 'name:%s file:%s co_lno:%d lasti:%d f_lno:%d' % (co.co_name, co.co_filename, co.co_firstlineno,
f.f_lasti, f.f_lineno)
                                f = f.f_back
                        raise

        return wrap_traceback_method

def _allMethods(C):
        from inspect import ismethod, getmembers
        M = []
        m = M.append
        for methodname,method in getmembers(C):
                if ismethod(method): m(methodname)
        return tuple(M)

def tracebackWrap(C, *M):
                for m in M or _allMethods(C):
                        setattr(C, m, tracebackAdvice(getattr(C, m), m))

if __name__=='__main__':
        class A(object):
                def f(self, x):
                        assert x>=0
                        print "real f", x
        tracebackWrap(A, "f")
        def L2():
                a = A()
                a.f(1)
                a.f(-1)
        def L1():
                L2()
        def L0():
                try:
                        L1()
                except:
                        pass
        L0()
###################################

>Apologies if this is off-topic.
>
>>                 try:
>>                         origMethod(*args, **kwargs)
>
>This should be:
>                         return origMethod(*args, **kwargs)
>
>>                 except:
>Shouldn't you catch the actual exception:
>
>                  except Exception, e:
>
>in order to let it go its way up at the end of the exception block:
>                          raise e
>
>Notice that by doing so I get the following trace:
>
>$ python2.2 tbwrap.py
>real f 1
>[A.f]
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "tbwrap.py", line 5, in wrap_traceback_method
>    return origMethod(*args, **kwargs)
>  File "tbwrap.py", line 36, in f
>    assert x>=0
>AssertionError
>stack info
>name:L2 file:tbwrap.py co_lno:39 lasti:43 f_lno:42
>name:L1 file:tbwrap.py co_lno:43 lasti:9 f_lno:44
>name:L0 file:tbwrap.py co_lno:45 lasti:9 f_lno:46
>name:? file:tbwrap.py co_lno:1 lasti:138 f_lno:47
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "tbwrap.py", line 47, in ?
>    L0()
>  File "tbwrap.py", line 46, in L0
>    L1()
>  File "tbwrap.py", line 44, in L1
>    L2()
>  File "tbwrap.py", line 42, in L2
>    a.f(-1)
>  File "tbwrap.py", line 17, in wrap_traceback_method
>    raise e
>AssertionError
>
>Pedro

-- 
Robin Becker


From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov  9 18:06:32 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:06:32 GMT
Subject: Numarray append 
References: <1ggz9.11678$Zn2.332778@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <Yxgz9.16096$XO.716672@news2.tin.it>

Fabrizio wrote:

> Is there a quick way to append elements to a Numarray array ?
> 
> I could not find any.

Numeric arrays aren't quite as flexible as Python lists, but some
ways can be found, e.g.:

>>> x = Numeric.arrayrange(7)
>>> def numarext(aray, oth):
...     L = len(aray)
...     aray = Numeric.resize(aray, (L+len(oth),) )
...     aray[L:] = oth
...     return aray
...
>>> x = numarext(x, range(3))
>>> x
array([0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 0, 1, 2])
>>>


Alex



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Nov 10 02:49:52 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 08:49:52 +0100
Subject: Getting SSL certificate
References: <aeGy9.15988$6b.572415@news2.east.cox.net> <m3smycjztc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <kuisz8bhne.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <j48z04z2wy.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <LG%y9.21231$6b.825832@news2.east.cox.net> <m3fzubmds4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Melz9.28648$6b.1126434@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <m3fzu9c19b.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Stuart D. Gathman" <stuart at bmsi.com> writes:

> Tying doesn't tell me whether the cert was actually checked.  

It does if you produce a case which should fail, e.g. by providing a
CA chain which the server won't verify against.

> socketmodule.c never calls SSL_get_verify_result()

So this could be fixed by exposing SSL_get_verify_result, right?

> It seems that the docs are correct.  The certificate is not validated and
> I could be talking to anybody or their dog.  Furthermore, while the
> server and issuer are exposed through undocumented attributes, the
> server_cert is not.  So there is no way to validate the cert manually,
> short of rewriting socketmodule.c.  This is one case where the batteries
> included have been sitting on the shelf too long.

Definitely. It's a chicken-and-egg problem: Nobody believes the
builtin SSL support is useful, so nobody contributes
improvements. That is very unfortunate.

> If only the server_cert were available, validating it is not too much
> work.  There is an external 'verify' program supplied with openssl that
> does most of the work for you.

While that might be the case, I don't really see the need for that. If
you expose SSL_get_verify_result, your application would work, right?

If you provide a patch that exposes both (get_verify_result, and
server_cert), this would be most appreciated.

Regards,
Martin


From reiot at uzdream.com  Fri Nov  1 21:41:50 2002
From: reiot at uzdream.com (Reiot)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 18:41:50 -0800
Subject: how to handle DbiRaw instance?
Message-ID: <e31b844c.0211011841.17a86f5@posting.google.com>

Hi Gurus..

I've stored some C-struct to MS-SQL varbinary column, 

and i'm working on tiny converting tool with python.

but i couldn't handle the DbiRow instance...

my plan was,

while 1:
    rec = cur.fetchone()
    rawobj = rec[N]
    a,b,c = struct.unpack('HHL',CONVERT_RAWOBJ_TO_STR(rawobj))
    handle_abc()

bu..t... how can i convert DbiRaw instance to normal string....??


From sav at ulj.menatepspb.com  Mon Nov 18 11:29:24 2002
From: sav at ulj.menatepspb.com (Alexander Semenov)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:29:24 +0300
Subject: Will python binaries compiled on vs.net?
Message-ID: <3dd91565@post.ulj.menatepspb.com>

Hi,

I'm using python on win32, and recently moved to most current MS C compiler
VS.NET (VS7). My policy for python and it's modules is using binaries for
win32
wherever possible and build modules which distributed in sources only.
Unfortunately there are incompatibility beetween python binary python.exe
built by vs6 and modules built by vs7. VS7 used new msvcrt.dll (msvcr70.dll)
and msvcp70.dll. If you malloced memory by msvcrt.dll and free it by
msvcr70.dll
you probably get a crash. So I cant build modules from sources now.

I know, python compiles on vc7, I even succesfully tried to compile it, but
recompiling all of modules I use may become a PITA. Especially modules like
PyWin32 or PIL. Some modules will be better built by authors.

So, my question is: when python binaries will be built by VS7? I think it
force
authors of popular modules rebuilt it too. I know, this makes problems for
people with vs6, but now vs7 is most current realize from MS.

Alexander Semenov.




From skip at pobox.com  Sat Nov  2 09:21:48 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 08:21:48 -0600
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
In-Reply-To: <3dc3a6fd$0$84999$e4fe514c@dreader7.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com>
        <3dc3a6fd$0$84999$e4fe514c@dreader7.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <15811.57212.63630.442017@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Boudewijn> With Python, I'm using grep as my main refactoring tool --
    Boudewijn> but I'm trying really hard to get into the habit of using
    Boudewijn> bicyclerepairman (from emacs), which seems superior the Java
    Boudewijn> tools I have used.

I thought I saw a refactoring editor project on SF some time ago which was
written in and for Python.  SF's search tool isn't working for me at the
moment.  Does anyone know if this project is still active?

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 12 14:56:06 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:56:06 -0600
Subject: Optimisation problem
In-Reply-To: <20021112193348.GB1756@unpythonic.net>
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D5F996@mail.hebmex.com>
        <20021112193348.GB1756@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <15825.23766.618810.28824@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Jeff> a, b = b, a
    ...
    Jeff> A creative individual could possibly write a peephole optimizer to
    Jeff> get rid of BUILD_TUPLE/UNPACK_SEQUENCE, but it means either
    Jeff> reversing the order of calculation or the order of assignment as
    Jeff> well.

A bit dated now, but:

    http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/python/spam7/optimizer.html

Skip



From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 28 12:36:41 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:36:41 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <20021128000512.T11257@prim.han.de> <mailman.1038439190.14392.python-list@python.org> <r0qauuc1uoa8fn2l7beic8tjno735qe9up@4ax.com> <7h3n0nuovvh.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3vicuu46ft9te78npuqm88d98v6entgs1o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h3wumxoaty.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> writes:

> >You'd have to know at compile time whether g() referred to a generator
> >of not, wouldn't you?
> 
> No, you wouldn't.

Then I misunderstood your idea.  Care to explain further?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Just put the user directories on a 486 with deadrat7.1 and turn the
  Octane into the afforementioned beer fridge and keep it in your
  office. The lusers won't notice the difference, except that you're
  more cheery during office hours.              -- Pim van Riezen, asr


From p.nilsson at xtra.co.nz  Sun Nov 24 16:54:53 2002
From: p.nilsson at xtra.co.nz (Paul Nilsson)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:54:53 +0100
Subject: sockets and encryption
References: <6pintugofjalm0sbg1u2g4q91bdonmbupk@4ax.com> <mailman.1037829043.12404.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8hi2uuguh0l0jlmrao1fjshle68op1kt4s@4ax.com>

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:49:27 -0500, an infinite amount of monkeys
hijacked the computer of Michael Stenner <mstenner at phy.duke.edu> and
wrote:


>Would SSL work for you?  That's basically made to do exactly what you
>describe, no?

Doesn't ssl involve getting a certificate? I'm also not sure of other
restraints that may be present, such as non ascii data. I'd rather
just open a socket and push a raw bytestream without having to conform
to a standard :)

Cheers, Paul.


From jmarshal at mathworks.com  Tue Nov 26 17:01:19 2002
From: jmarshal at mathworks.com (Joshua Marshall)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 22:01:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
References: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com> <3de3e129$0$4437$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <as0p9f$3c7$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <3de3ebb9$0$4491$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <as0qvf$6dl$1@ginger.mathworks.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> In article <as0p9f$3c7$1 at ginger.mathworks.com>, Joshua Marshall wrote:

>> Maybe:
>> 
>>   a, b += i, j
>> 
>> is equivalent to
>> 
>>   tmp = j
>>   a += i
>>   b += tmp

> To me, that would be a bit counter-intuitive, since

>   ((a,b) + (i,j)) equals (a,b,i,j)  rather than   ((a+i),(b+j))

Counter-intuitive even though:

  >>> a = 3
  >>> b = 4
  >>> a, b = b, a
  >>> a
  4
  >>> b
  3

?


From a at b.c  Fri Nov  1 20:40:35 2002
From: a at b.c (Michael Bakkemo)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 01:40:35 GMT
Subject: tkinter bug? tk bug?
Message-ID: <apvaej$9ha$0@216.39.145.102>

I am not sure where things are going wrong, but binding to the "<Key>" and
"<KeyRelease>" TK events seems to work fine except for the right side
control and alt keys: the <Key> event hands me the correct values, but the
<KeyRelease> event hands me the left side values. To wit:

 # File: keys.py
import Tkinter
import Pmw
import tkFont
import sys

class KeyboardHandler:

    def __init__(self):
        pass

    def _Log(self, string):
        print string

    def KeyDown(self, ke):
        print "keydown:", ke.keysym_num, ke.keycode, ke.keysym

    def KeyUp(self, ke):
        print "keyup:", ke.keysym_num, ke.keycode, ke.keysym

def bail():
    menu.quit()


root = Tkinter.Tk()

# create a menu
menu = Tkinter.Menu(root)
root.config(menu=menu)

Quitmenu = Tkinter.Menu(menu)
menu.add_cascade(label="Quit", menu=Quitmenu)
Quitmenu.add_command(label="Quit", command=bail)

sc = Pmw.ScrolledCanvas(root, borderframe=1, hscrollmode='dynamic',
vscrollmode='dynamic')

sc.resizescrollregion()
sc.pack(fill='both',expand=1)

keyb = KeyboardHandler()
root.bind("<Key>", keyb.KeyDown)
root.bind("<KeyRelease>", keyb.KeyUp)

root.mainloop()

gives me the following when the right side Alt and Control keys are pressed
and released.

>>>
keydown: 65514 18 Alt_R
keyup: 65513 18 Alt_L
keydown: 65508 17 Control_R
keyup: 65507 17 Control_L


My question is, where (what level) are things going wrong? I doubt it is my
code (but hey, what do I know) tkinter? the tk level? my keyboard driver?

Any pointers appreciated.





From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 26 20:26:24 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:26:24 -0800
Subject: *args and **kwargs
References: <uLUE9.5581$kz4.355569@news2.west.cox.net> <87d6orq0oz.fsf@uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <3DE41F40.B286A244@alcyone.com>

Andrew Lusk wrote:

> So you can send in keyval pairs and it will get a dictionary.  Useful
> for having multiple unordered optional arguments.

Concisely stated.  Note that you can also (Python 2.x) use the * and **
syntaxes for _calling_ functions.  As a shortcut to the apply builtin,
you can call a function using the *args and **keywords syntax:

	f(*args)
	g(**keywords)
	h(*args, **keywords)

etc.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Everyone wants to look good at his own funeral.
\__/ Louis Wu
    PyUID / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/uid/
 A module for generating "unique" IDs in Python.


From Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM  Wed Nov 13 03:29:15 2002
From: Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM (Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 00:29:15 -0800
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ? - testing only
References: <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOOENPDPAA.marklists@mceahern.com> <mailman.1036484650.32647.python-list@python.org> <44ee1dc2.0211120441.465eeb62@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <44ee1dc2.0211130029.331c384a@posting.google.com>

news:<44ee1dc2.0211120441.465eeb62 at posting.google.com>...

 this time i leave the ?news-line? unchanged above...


From pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr  Thu Nov 21 11:16:46 2002
From: pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr (Pedro RODRIGUEZ)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:16:46 +0100
Subject: Problem with list assignment
References: <mailman.1037892569.8801.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arj0c8$skc$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:28:12 +0100, Jesse Lawrence wrote:

> I'm using the following function to retrieve the headers from my mysql
> columns.  I want to shed the extra info, and just maintain the name of
> the column. This might be really simple, but I can't seem to figure out
> why the assigment of the headers to the list header[] in my for loop
> isn't working.
> 
> Here's the function:
> 
> def mysqlFieldNames(conn):
>    cursor = conn.cursor()
>    cursor.execute ("DESCRIBE guestbook") row = cursor.fetchall()
>    cursor.close()
>    # here's the problem area:
>    header = []
>    i = 0;
>    for r in row:
>       header[i] = r[0]
>       i = i + 1
>    return header
> 
> Now, when I just do a print r[0] in the for loop, I'm getting exactly
> what I want, it's just that when I try to assign it to header, that I
> get a "list assignment index out of range" error.
 
When you do header[0], your 'header' list is empty so you get an error
because your index is not valid, and python won't create it for you
on the fly.

Just change your code to and I think this will be fine:
    ...
    header = []
    for r in row:
       header.append(r[0])
    return header

Pedro


From slaven.rezic at berlin.de  Wed Nov  6 03:13:03 2002
From: slaven.rezic at berlin.de (Slaven Rezic)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 09:13:03 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8C177.8CC0164E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <87adknt8ts.fsf@vran.herceg.de>

Benjamin Goldberg <goldbb2 at earthlink.net> writes:

> Frodo Morris wrote:
> > 
> > Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> > > Frodo Morris wrote:
[...]
> 
> > Why not leave it running, so that any Perl/Python/Tcl/Ruby/Java/sh/
> > BASIC/whatever code can get to it immediately?
> 
> Ignoring the problem of compiling those languages down to parrot
> bytecode...
> 
> How should the kernel detect that a parrot-bytecode file is, in fact,
> parrot bytecode?
> 
> For normal exe files, there's the execute bit and some standard headers.
> For normal scripts, there's the execute bit and the #! line.

At least on *BSD, /sys/kern/imgact_*.c control which executable types
are allowed. There are imgact_aout.c, imgact_elf.c, imgact_gzip.c and
imgact_shell.c, and maybe one could add an imgact_parrot.c?

Regards,
	Slaven

-- 
Slaven Rezic - slaven.rezic at berlin.de

    Berlin Perl Mongers - http://berliner.pm.org


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Thu Nov 28 14:41:28 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 19:41:28 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyfy97ew0o7.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <3DE666F0.32F64BA6@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <f6scuus406jor5ka1kr7sj80serq7215gd@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:56:48 -0800, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

>deed, I think it's highly ironic that people are complaining about
>parenthesis-counting when it comes to Python, because "I don't want to
>be keeping track of whitespace indentation" is one of the key
>anti-Python sentiments (from people who have never used it).  The fact
>that we're not complaining about this in Python now, of course, is
>because it's a non-issue -- you _don't_ have to do such things, your
>editor does it for you.  For Lisp programming, it's exactly the same
>thing.

But requires a specific class of editor, whereas all other editors
around can handle basic programming languages.

C//



From alloydflanagan at attbi.com  Mon Nov 18 07:48:19 2002
From: alloydflanagan at attbi.com (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 04:48:19 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com>

> misguided moral philosophy. One could as well argue that the failure of Lisp
> is that its inventors spent too much time fighting each other over trivia
> rather than focusing on creating great libraries and applications to make it
> valuable to others. There was a window of opportunity from the late 70s to
> the late 80s, but the Lisp community bet on Lisp machines, dialect variants,
> and narrow application niches (AI in particular). In addition, all the best
> Lisp implementations were either proprietary or tied to exotic platforms.
> Much effort was wasted by all, allowing other languages to claim a territory
> that could have been naturally Lisp's.
> 
> In summary, Lisp's problem is that it had no BDFL.
> 
Exactly.  In addition, Lisp proponents have historically been
contemptous of attempts to run efficiently on available hardware,
something which is somewhat important to anybody without a bunch of
extra cash to buy more powerful hardware.  You can't completely ignore
the desires of the market and expect to sell a whole lot of anything.

In addition, I think Common Lisp killed a lot of Lisp's momentum. 
Much of Lisp's power comes from the application of just a few basic
language elements; CL added an incredible amount of complexity in the
process of including each and every favorite feature of all the major
players in the Lisp market.  Check out Guy Steele's Common Lisp. 
Python has the power but hasn't (yet at least) been drowned in
complexity.


From francois.lepoutre at seriatim.com  Sat Nov 16 02:26:44 2002
From: francois.lepoutre at seriatim.com (=?utf-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Lepoutrre?=)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:26:44 +0100
Subject: some sort of threadsafe locale support
References: <ar2d8b$ali$1@nntp-m01.news.aol.com> <m3vg2zklzq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ar4s2o$c08$1@nntp-m01.news.aol.com>

Hi

>If you are willing to contribute, I recommend that you look at the IBM
>ICU library (international components for Unicode), and its Python
>wrapper PICU, at
>
>http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python-codecs/picu/
>
>For the specific services you need, you will have to write the
>wrappers yourself (since the existing wrappers wrap other parts of the
>library). In return, you get a fully thread-safe,
>multi-locales-at-time library. Don't forget to contribute your code
>when done.

I LOVE pythonn and d'be glad to contribute but have to confess
that i'm not proficient enough with systems for this.

I have no IT background (15 years as HR, hiring and firing....)
and use python because i found it so simple and manageable.

Python has replace "asp and al" in my toolbox for cgi. It allows
for high-level paradigms in a few lines of code. Fits my brain.

But i am still a dummy when it comes to hardcore programming.
I would definitely not be the person to write extensions.

I liked c but didnot produce any significant code. i bumped
into C++ and didnot like it.

Call me a high-level code programmer only.

I loved smalltalk but  never tried java. Python has
delivered what smalltalk did promise.

Python has a funny and eclectic user base with
scientists, system specialists and litterary blokes.

An open world :)

Francois
>
>HTH,
>Martin




From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov  9 04:30:49 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 09:30:49 GMT
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <918bc22f.0211061829.2d94e681@posting.google.com> <aqco2l$q2f$0@216.39.172.122> <918bc22f.0211070403.18e19850@posting.google.com> <Tt0z9.2287$Aq5.241565@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <aqikk9$fj$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 04:49:55 GMT, Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:

>Donnal Walter wrote:
>> program. Of course it would be difficult to market a spreadsheet, and
>> I have had no desire to consider it. I also have no desire to release
>> it as open source, as long as it is in the form of a spreadsheet. But
>> my point is simply that this is the kind of application that cries out
>> for *some kind* of open source distribution. On the other hand, most
>> of the applications we have in mind have more to do with organizing
>> information than with performing calculations.
>
>Yep: "high use-value, low-sale-value" fits Eric Raymond's analysis anyway.
>
>> Incidentally, there is (now) a commercial product available to do this
>> task, and it carries a disclaimer that the user is responsible for
>> verifying the accuracy of output. Of course, the source code is not
>> available for us to look at.
>
>I like the idea that *full-disclosure* should be a defense against
>liability claims.  Because it seems fair to me that if I can find out
>fully how something works, it's reasonable for me to take
>responsibility for it.
I think that is an interesting point, though usually you depend on trust
a fair amount. There just isn't enough time to do source walkthroughs of
all the software you are going to run. I wonder if you could design open
software to generate module coverage/use statistics that could be contributed
with a click or two to a QA server, to generate automatic reliability ratings.
So you could tell absence of problem reports from absence of use.

>
>I think the thing to realize about open-source versus closed-source
>for reliability is that using closed source may reduce your responsibility
>-- i.e. you can pass the blame onto the source of the software more
>easily if it fails and kills somebody.  But it doesn't do anything to
>reduce the actual chance of it killing somebody. In fact, the "fewer
>eyeballs" effect -- an indirect, but definite correlation to being closed-
>source -- probably *increases* the actual risk.
>
>Or to put it another way -- no amount of life insurance will save your
>life. Wear a seatbelt instead.
>
>For people who *really* care about safety (as opposed to liability), 
>open-source is usually going to be a good choice.  That's because
>there's just no practical way to get so many people to check closed-
>source code.  I'd like to think that when the stakes are life and limb,
>that people *are* more concerned about safety than liability.
I think so too, however, attention has to be attracted and eyes motivated
by some presentation of the information. It's not automatic.

>
>I think this is the reasoning behind the military and data security
>folks who argue for using open-source code. Certainly it was not
>an obvious result. I think it started because a lot of users had a
>feeling that open-source code was more reliable without actually
>knowing why. Then I remember there were some articles talking
>about proving it by running the Gnu utilities and the control
>group of commercial Unix utilities against random data and counting
>the crashes. It was only after that that I started seeing arguments
>for *why* this should be so. (IIRC -- other people may remember
>this differently, I certainly don't have references). 
>
>It was certainly a revelation for me -- I guess I'm a "free-software 
>convert".
>
>> David Brown:
>>> Have you considered whether Python is really a suitable
>>> language for this job?  It is probably ideal for your first
>>> project, but not necessarily for the second one.  Python
>>> makes it easy to write great software, but it also makes it
>>> easy to make mistakes which can only be found at run-time.
>
>Really, though, the software should be extensively tested at the
>run-time level, anyway.   Also, the real question is "what happens
>if it does break?".  In this case, it sounds like a pharmacist checks
>it anyway. If it's too far out of bounds (i.e. deadly), they're going
>to catch it right-away (humans are good at that). If it's subtly
>wrong, it probably won't kill anybody -- medicine isn't *that*
>precise.  I remember being somewhat shocked at how imprecisely
>pharmaceutical units are defined or measured (how big is a "drop"?).
>
>And as the OP points out, the accuracy ratio is better compared
>to hand-calculation anyway, so while some hypothetical ADA-based
>solution might be even more reliable, it seems like the problem
>is getting solved.

There is no such thing as a "safe" language that can turn a bad or
incomplete specification into a good program. An incomplete specification
does not adequately reflect the role of the software in the total system, and
unnecessarily leaves it to humans to notice that e.g., a 16-kg preemie weight
probably should be 1.6 kg etc. An Ada program that just calculates proportional
dosage can be "correct" but garbage in garbage out is not the right attitude
for a system affecting lives. The spec should say something about human keying
errors etc. Re that, see

    http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/21.49.html#subj2

and for a read that will turn your stomach re software and medical devices, follow
the link to

    http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib/Therac_25/Therac_1.html

(for a mix of more or less consequential stuff, browse http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.risks)

Would open source have done better? Well, I think we should say "the open source
community" rather than just "open source," because the key is a bunch of _people_
who care to engage their minds, and a relatively efficient mechanism for getting
their attention and collaborating.

I am sure many suggestions for improvements would have appeared in short order
if the Therac software had been posted to a public medical software QA newsgroup,
where people would be extra motivated to help make it right. And OT post here
would probably not do too badly either ;-)

I have no doubt that the open source phenomenon could be brought to bear on the
concept and specification phase of systems design much more generally than
just software aspects too. I.e., if the software is used by a doctor, but the
result always goes through the hands of a pharmacist and a nurse, what would make
the system as a whole more reliable? It takes a combination of people who intimately
understand various aspects and interactions in the system, and what is critical and
what isn't, and also others who can imagine technical _system_ possibilities as well
as implementations of particular micro-jobs. E.g., what if everyone involved had wifi
pda's and there was a system monitoring events in time and space, and sanity-checking
values and delays, and lighting big red lights and making automated cell calls when
something is out of norms. Well, in an open forum there will be people who see both
flaws and opportunities in blurts like that, and so the entire process becomes a kind
of genetic algorithm operating to evolve and refine ideas.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From lozinski at jobmart.com  Fri Nov 15 11:04:50 2002
From: lozinski at jobmart.com (lozinski at jobmart.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:04:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python And Zope Developers in Latin America
Message-ID: <1021115080450.452AAC/A.lozinski@maya>

>I am looking for Python and Zope developers who live in >Latinamerica for the
realisation of an ongoing project for >Telecenters in Latinamerica.
I am glad to see that news.  It makes so much more sense than everyone sending
the work to India.

The largest online database of python and zope developers is located at:

python.jobmart.com

For the latin American candidates please go to

zope.jobmart.com/Resumes/ShowOthers

Post your job, and I will send you an account which makes it really easy to sort
through the different candidates.

Regards
Chris

1-510-740-6486
lozinski at openstepnews.com
lozinski at jobmart.com



From timr at probo.com  Fri Nov 15 01:04:17 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:04:17 -0800
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
References: <mailman.1037073736.4948.python-list@python.org> <3DD24694.1060401@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <8f39tug7u0n1po1evtqm4bs44iogj2p373@4ax.com>

maxm <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:

>Terence Ng wrote:
>> I guess it cannot consider as spaming if I provide the
>> option to remove from the mailing list.
>
>Not only is it spam, but if you send it to someone in Denmark, like me
>;-) it is even illegal.

I hate spam as much as anyone, but the original poster said these were
contacts he had collected at a trade show.  It seems to me that this is a
pretty clear case of "soliciting" the e-mail, and therefore disqualifies it
as spam.

It's the price you pay for picking up all that free junk...
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From rmunn at pobox.com  Tue Nov 12 01:12:09 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:12:09 GMT
Subject: newbie Q: shortcuts for long module names?
References: <Vs_z9.47492$Lg2.13559342@news2.news.adelphia.net> <3DD076B1.B0A5CA12@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037072417.21551.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnat1766.n37.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2002-11-11 at 21:34, Erik Max Francis wrote:
>> Try
>> 
>> 	import this.is.a.long.module.name as name
>> 
>> or
>> 
>> 	import this.is.a.long.module.name as somethingElse
> 
> or
>   from this.is.a.deep.package import name

You could even do:

    from this.is.a.deep.package import name as someOtherName

if you want to.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From wks000 at t-online.de  Sat Nov 30 08:20:53 2002
From: wks000 at t-online.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:20:53 +0100
Subject: the real .pyc file
References: <mailman.1038246454.8932.python-list@python.org> <3DE45656.AFCBD01B@engcorp.com> <as350j$851$0@216.39.172.122> <cl1euucqtauss2mqebkscv24jek5r6p65f@4ax.com> <Xns92D5637B8E4ACduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m3ahuusnth95tj3csafp64o3nfjgsk0vpb@4ax.com>

Duncan Booth <duncan at rcp.co.uk> schrieb am Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:39:52
+0000 (UTC):

>Well, you could trivially cut it down to two line:
>
>#define print(s) void main(){ printf(s); }
>print ("signature under construction")

>although, of course, your 'void main' isn't actually legal, 

I believe it is legal. See

http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/FGA/legality-of-void-main.html

>nor do you
>define printf (and since it takes a variable number of arguments calling
>it without defining it gives undefined behaviour), 

That's true indeed.  Let me excuse me by pointing out that old habits
die hard. It _was_ legal C at the time I learned C. ;-)   

>so I think you really
>need three lines: 
>
>#include <stdio.h>
>#define print(s) int main(){ printf(s); return 0; }
>print("signature under construction")

#include <stdio.h>
#include <time.h>

#define print(p,s) int main(){time_t
t;char*b;time(&t);b=ctime(&t);b[24]=0;printf("('%s',
'%s')\n",b,s);return 0;}

print(getattr(eval("__import__('time')"),'asctime')(),"signature under
construction")

(four lines only, line wrapping has to be repaired)

C:\>signature.exe
('Sat Nov 30 14:15:10 2002', 'signature under construction')

C:\>python signature.c
('Sat Nov 30 14:17:42 2002', 'signature under construction')

C:\>
-- 
Thank you for observing all safety precautions


From mb at bese.it  Tue Nov 12 04:47:06 2002
From: mb at bese.it (Marco Baringer)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 10:47:06 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqjr09$qbg$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <slrnasr9v1.267f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <tyfof8x1rkf.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <aqmqma$nsd$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <tyfvg34zeku.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1037052618.20223.python-list@python.org> <aqpf2i$7i9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <mailman.1037062037.18153.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2k7jj5d9t.fsf@bese.it>

Neil Schemenauer <nas at python.ca> writes:

> I didn't know about *read-eval*.  Thanks for the tip.  Still:
> 
>     (defun parse-float (s)
>       (let ((*read-eval* nil))
>         (read-from-string s)))
> 
>     (defun doit ()
>       (dotimes (i 100000)
>         (parse-float "3.1415927")))
> 
>     (time (doit))
> 
> takes 1.507 seconds on my machine using SBCL.  The corresponding Python
> code takes 0.19.

but the problem is that the coressponding python code doesn't do the
same thing:

in openmcl 0.13b:

? (* 1e10 (parse-float "0.4e-10"))
0.4

in python 2.2 (whatever apple ships with jaguar):

>>> float("0.4e-10") * 1e10
0.39999999999999997

i don't want to say CL does anything better (often python's behaviour
is "good enough" and faster, and you can't (easily) disable CL's
behaviour), i just want to show how this benchmark (like all
benchmarks) doesn't really say much.

and this:

>    import socket
>    s = socket.socket()
>    s.connect(("localhost", 13))
>    print s.recv(1024)
>    s.close()

would become (with openmcl's socket interface):

(with-open-socket (s :type :stream 
                     :remote-host "localhost"
                     :remote-port 13)
  ;; s is a normal io stream, so we read 1024 characters from it like
  ;; we would from any other stream
  (princ (read-sequence (make-string 1024) s)))

if you want to ensure that you read exactly 1024 8bit bytes (lisps
with unicode support may not have 8bit characters):

(with-open-socket (s :type :stream 
                     :remote-host "localhost"
                     :remote-port 13)
  (princ (read-sequence (make-array 1024 :element-type 'unsigned-byte) s)))

-- 
-Marco
Ring the bells that still can ring.
Forget your perfect offering.
There is a crack in everything.
That's how the light gets in.
     -Leonard Cohen


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Thu Nov 28 09:42:52 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:42:52 -0600
Subject: LAN communication under windows
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302FD3B81@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: stojek at part-gmbh.de [mailto:stojek at part-gmbh.de]
> Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 6:11 AM
> 
> Hi,
> 
> for a little (net) game i am planning, i have to write two components,
> a client and a server module. If one of the gamers starts the
> clientmodule on his machine this prog has to connect to the server,
> register itself with the username and receive a list of users that
> have their client module running. When exiting the client module it
> has to unregister at the server module. So nothing very special.
> 
> Except that I have no idea how to start or where to look? Do I have to
> use services or sockets or something else? I am sure there is a simple
> example somewhere, but i can't find it.
> 
> Any hints or help?
> 
> Thanks,
> marcus
>

Seems simple enough; use google to look for examples
of code using datagram communications, which would be
much better for your application than streams.

Surely, most examples will be in C, but you might find
some in other, more expressive languages, which would
be easy enough to convert to Python.

Google is your friend. :-)

-gustavo



From sorr at rightnow.com  Tue Nov 12 10:17:05 2002
From: sorr at rightnow.com (Orr, Steve)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:17:05 -0700
Subject: RE to Parse Oracle Net8 tnsnames.ora
Message-ID: <D408B6AC060DB24790622E1A54204DB00BBB9E53@xchange.rightnowtech.com>

Anyone have a ready-made regular expression to parse out the Oracle net8
service name labels from the tnsnames.ora file? What I'm looking for is a
way to get a list of possible connections from the tnsnames.ora file. For
example, from the sample file syntax below I just want a regular expression
which returns label1 and label2...
--------------------------------------------------------
label1 = (description_list=
  (description=
     (address=(...))
     (connect_data=(...)))
  (description=
     (address=(...))
     (connect_data=(...)))
)

label2 = (description_list=
  (description=
     (address=(...))
     (connect_data=(...)))
  (description=
     (address=(...))
     (connect_data=(...)))
)
--------------------------------------------------------

Note: after "label=..." spacing and carriage returns can vary. Whatever
appears after the label can be all on one line with no spaces or it can have
any number of spaces and carriage returns.


AtDhVaAnNkCsE !!!!!!!!

Steve Orr
Bozeman, Montana



From rodrigobamboo at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 27 00:05:42 2002
From: rodrigobamboo at hotmail.com (Rodrigo B. de Oliveira)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 21:05:42 -0800
Subject: Severe embedding problems - please HELP!!!
References: <c09aca51.0211251327.5f97df69@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ad9ea6f1.0211262105.4f0ae0e5@posting.google.com>

The problem with PyRun_File might be related to the fact that the FILE
structure differs from release to debug builds (or your program might
be statically linking to the CRT)...

Anyways, the following works for me:

<snip language="C++">
#include "stdafx.h"

char* read(const char* filename)
{
	char* buffer = 0;
	FILE* file = fopen(filename, "r");
	fseek(file, 0, SEEK_END);
	size_t size = ftell(file);
	if (size)
	{
		buffer = (char*)malloc(size + 1);
		fseek(file, 0, SEEK_SET);
		size = fread(buffer, sizeof(char), size, file);
		buffer[size] = 0;
	}
	fclose(file);
	return buffer;
}


int _tmain(int argc, _TCHAR* argv[])
{
	Py_Initialize();

	char* src = read("hello.py");
	PyRun_SimpleString(src);
	free(src);

	Py_Finalize();
	return 0;
}
</snip>

Rodrigo


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 18 20:00:25 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:00:25 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net> <3dd973b6$0$4438$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <gGeC9.17356$0U1.1722393@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3DD98D29.7D582540@alcyone.com>

Richard Dillingham wrote:

> So again, for if-statements, this looks like it could be done, unless
> the
> CVS version makes it recognize ,s in if statements as being for
> tuples.

No one's disputing that it _could_ be done.  But it's highly unlikely
that it will be done, particularly since both a, b == c, d and (a, b) ==
(c, d) have meaning now and mean something else.  Making an exception
here hardly seems worth the added complexity to the language.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ All the people in his neighborhood turn around and get mad and sing
\__/ Public Enemy
    Erik Max Francis' bookmarks / http://www.alcyone.com/max/links/
 A highly categorized list of Web links.


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 13 12:30:44 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 17:30:44 GMT
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <aqt734$r6j$0@216.39.172.122> <3dd27ed6$0$4440$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <aqu284$utu$0@216.39.172.122>

On 13 Nov 2002 16:33:26 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:

>In article <aqt734$r6j$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>> Your mention of Delphi made me recall that you can right click on a gui form
>> and select 'view as text' from the popup menu, and you get to see all the
>> parameters that define your layout. E.g. a default form with one button dropped
>> on it near the top left:
>> 
>> object Form1: TForm1
>>   Left = 200
>>   Top = 108
>>   Width = 544
>>   Height = 375
>>   Caption = 'Form1'
>[...]
>>   object Button1: TButton
>>     Left = 40
>>     Top = 24
>>     Width = 75
>>     Height = 25
>>     Caption = 'Button1'
>
><rant>
>
>One warning: there is a very special place reserved in hell for
>people who design GUI dialogs with hard-wired widget locations
>so that the dialogs can't be resized.  One of the reasons I
>really hate working with MS-Windows because of all the dialog
>boxes that use 80% of the space in a dialog for useless crap,
>and then show only four lines in a list-box containing 100+
>elements.  A decent GUI would let you resize the dialog so you
>could see more of the stuff in the list-box.  But not
>MS-Windows....
>
></rant>

Well, the above is just a snapshot of the state of a bunch of properties.
In Delphi you can easily add code to vary them dynamically however you want
and have the visual appearance automatically keep up in most cases.

You can also design dialogs that would behave to your specs. It's not windows
the OS (though there's plenty of other stuff to rant about ;-) or Delphi that
you're ranting against, it's product of particular app coders ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Nov 15 12:52:02 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:52:02 -0600
Subject: A really bad idea.
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E0A37F@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Tim Peters [mailto:tim.one at comcast.net]
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:51 AM
> 
> ...snip...
> 
> waiting-for-someone-to-ask-for-class-comprehensions-ly y'rs  - tim
> 

Please tell us about this class-comprehension-thingie.

-gus



From zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Nov 12 10:29:32 2002
From: zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:29:32 +0100
Subject: win32: own content-type --> start python script
References: <aqqrfq$a1m$04$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1037109196.20520.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqr6fr$t0m$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Chris Gonnerman schrieb:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Thomas Guettler" <zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de>
> 
> 
>>Hi!
>>
>>Does someone know how I can install
>>a fileextension on win32, so that if I download
>>a file with this extension in a browser
>>a script at the client get's called?
>>
>>Of course the script needs to be installed before
>>it. It is an intranet solution.
>>
>>At best, this script should be called directly, without
>>asking the user if he wants to download or start the
>>given application with this file.
> 
> 
> With Internet Explorer there's probably a way to do
> this... after all, what you are describing is a truly
> ugly security hole, and IE has lots of those.

Sorry, I think you missunderstood me:
I don't want to execute python scripts in the browser,
I want to pass a own data format to a script on the
client.

The data format has the following format:

"""
user=foo
password=foo
server=http://foo.com/uploadFiles
EOD
Here comes the binary data ......
"""

I only want to like the fileextension/content-type
to the script on the client. The client reads the
header (until EOD) and then starts ms-office with
the binary data.

I think it just needs some entries in the registry: like
".doc" is linked to "C:\programms\....\winword.exe".

If the file changed the script uploads it to the server.

We do this because WebDAV is not stable, and need some
easy way to integrate ms-office into a web-application.

  thomas



From melbohince at attbi.com  Mon Nov  4 12:14:08 2002
From: melbohince at attbi.com (Mel Bohince)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:14:08 GMT
Subject: Book recommendation please
References: <1036349092.40578.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <B9EC1507.DC85%melbohince@attbi.com>

> I am working through a couple of the helpful tutorials on the web, but I
> want a book. 
I know that feeling. Take a look at "The Quick Python Book" (Harms/McDonald,
et al, 2000 2nd Printing) Although it too is a v1.5 book, it has a very
friendly style to it.  Others on Amazon seem to share this opinion. It might
not be the last book you buy on Python, but it certainly is a good starting
point.


-:  -:  -:  -: -:  -:  -:  -:    \|/
  -:  -:  -:  -: -:  -:  -:  -:  cU
Mel Bohince
Pjt Mgr, 
Arkay Packaging Corporation
melbohince at att.net
http://home.att.net/~melbohince/



From rmunn at pobox.com  Sat Nov  9 04:06:17 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 09:06:17 GMT
Subject: Web based interface
References: <2027692.1036809220@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaspk8b.ll5.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 at 02:33 GMT, Tetsuo <member at dbforums.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm a n00b at programming of any kind. I only made one working program
> in my life, it created a temperature conversion table, I got guidance
> from my mom (who has coded for 25 years, although not in Python or any
> scripting language), and I have thoroughly forgotten whatever I learned
> from reading Mr. van Rossum's tutorial in August. Well, I sorta remember
> something... But despite all this, I have a big dream. It requires a
> database and a Web interface. It's hard to explain, but it's like a
> message board. I found a database (MySQL), a graphic interface for it
> (MySQLGUI), a module (MySQLdb), and they all even actually work. I also,
> after some struggle, found a magazine article that explained how to
> connect Python to MySQL. But I don't even know where to look to find out
> how to create dynamic Web pages with information from a database, read
> forms, and whatever else a message board could need.

You might try mod_python, the Python module for Apache. I believe Apache
runs on Windows as well as on Linux, though I've only ever used it on
Linux myself. But mod_python will let you create web pages in Python --
VERY handy. Look at http://www.modpython.org/.

If mod_python doesn't do what you want, you might also consider PHP
(http://www.php.net/).

Hope this helps.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 21 13:06:32 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:06:32 -0500
Subject: Pythoncal, anyone? (My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255))
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org> <PoWcnQjwr8ECy06gXTWc3A@comcast.com> <3DD84FDA.3010708@something.invalid> <pan.2002.11.18.23.52.25.376521@jerf.org> <3DDC720E.4070206@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <xQWdnY4p3JLVg0CgXTWcog@comcast.com>

"Greg Ewing" <see_reply_address at something.invalid> wrote in message
news:3DDC720E.4070206 at something.invalid...
> And of course it will be interesting deciding on
> the semantics of
>
>    def f():
>      don't pass

In The Science of Programming, David Gries (possibly copying
predecessors) introduced the abort == don't pass statement.  In
Python, assert 0 is perhaps closest.

TJR




From p.nilsson at xtra.co.nz  Wed Nov 20 12:55:02 2002
From: p.nilsson at xtra.co.nz (Paul Nilsson)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:55:02 +0100
Subject: sockets and encryption
Message-ID: <6pintugofjalm0sbg1u2g4q91bdonmbupk@4ax.com>

I'm wondering if anybody knows of an encryption module which allows a
client/server to set up a SSH type connection. Eg. the server pushes
over a static publick key and an hourly generated key, the client
generates a session key and fires this back at the server, then the
session is encrypted with this key and blowfish (or something
similar).

Ideally I'd like to be able to drop these sockets in where I'm using
the standard socke library now.

It's not really to difficult to code this up, however I really don't
want to re-invent the wheel here.

Cheers, Paul


From jmarshal at mathworks.com  Mon Nov  4 15:49:43 2002
From: jmarshal at mathworks.com (Joshua Marshall)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 20:49:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aq6mh7$k0l$1@ginger.mathworks.com>

Regular expressions are not powerful enough to be used to match
strings when you need to be intelligent about nesting.  There are
probably parser generators available--links anyone?

For your particular application, also take a look at the "parser"
Python module.  It's a little ugly, since it gives you complete
(rather than abstract) syntax trees, but it may help you.


Michele Simionato <mis6 at pitt.edu> wrote:
> Suppose I want to parse the following expression:

>>>> exp='(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'

> I want to extract the first part, i.e. '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)'.

> Now if I use a greedy regular expression

>>>> import re; greedy=re.compile('\(.*\)')

> I obtain to much, the full expression:

>>>> match=greedy.search(exp); match.group()

> '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'

> On the other hand, if I use a nongreedy regular expression

>>>> nongreedy=re.compile('\(.*?\)')

> I obtain too little:

>>>> match=nongreedy.search(exp); match.group()

> '(a*(b+c*(2-x)'

> Is there a way to specify a clever regular expression able to match
> the first parenthesized group  ? What I did, was to write a routine
> to extract the first parenthesized group:

> def parenthesized_group(exp):
>     nesting_level,out=0,[]
>     for c in exp:
> 	out.append(c)
>         if c=='(': nesting_level+=1
> 	elif c==')': nesting_level-=1
> 	if nesting_level==0: break
>     return ''.join(out)

>>>> print parenthesized_group(exp)

> (a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)

> Still, this seems to me not the best way to go and I would like to know
> if this can be done with a regular expression. Notice that I don't need
> to control all the nesting levels of the parenthesis, for me it is enough
> to recognize the end of the first parenthesized group.

> Obiously, I would like a general recipe valid for more complicate
> expressions: in particular I cannot assume that the first group ends 
> right before a mathematical operator (like '+' in this case) since
> these expressions are not necessarely mathematical expressions (as the
> example could wrongly suggest). In general I have expressions of the
> form

> ( ... contains nested expressions with parenthesis... )...other stuff

> where other stuff may contain nested parenthesis. I can assume that 
> there are no errors, i.e. that all the internal open parenthesis are
> matched by closing parenthesis.

> Is this a problem which can be tackled with regular expressions ?

> TIA,

> --
> Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
> 210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
> Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
> Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Tue Nov 26 14:33:11 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:33:11 +0100
Subject: How to generate libpython2.2.so ?
In-Reply-To: <3DE39BD2.5070700@envision.co.il>
References: <3DE39BD2.5070700@envision.co.il>
Message-ID: <20021126193311.GB638@lilith.ghaering.test>

* Nadav Horesh <NadavH at envision.co.il> [2002-11-26 18:05 +0200]:
> I compiled python 2.2.2 under RedHat 8.0 with gcc 3.2.1 using the simple 
> ./configure; make combination. It all went smoothly and seems to work 
> well, but it does not generate libpython2.2.so, although other shared 
> libraries were generated.
> 
> I looked at the README and the configure --help option but found no hints.
> Any ideas?

AFAIK it's not possible with an unpatched Python 2.2.x. With Python
2.3-CVS, however, building the shared library is the default.

Some distributions, for example the one I use, Debian, apply patches to
have Python build a shared library. So maybe you can grab a Debian
source package and try building from it.

-- Gerhard



From grante at visi.com  Mon Nov 18 18:11:50 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 23:11:50 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3dd973b6$0$4438$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104 at news2.east.cox.net>, Richard Dillingham wrote:

>> > Kind of like we have multiple assignments in a line
>> > (oldx,oldy=x,y), what do you think of the ability to have
>> > multiple tests in an if statement with only one == or >=.
>> >
>> > This would mean that lines like the following:
>> > if posx>=coords[0] and posy>=coords[1] and posx<=coords[2] and
>> > posy<=coords[3]:
>> >
>> > Could be rewritten like so:
>> > if posx,posy>=coords[0],coords[1] and posx,posy<=coords[2],coords[3]
>>
>> How would you disambiguate that from a comparison of two tuples?

> It doesn't have ()s, so it ain't two tuples. Easy enough, da?

Not really...  ()s don't have anything particularly to do with
tuples.  The comma is the tupple constructor operator: a,c is a
tuple (a,c) is the same tuple with parens around it.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My ELBOW is a remote
                                  at               FRENCH OUTPOST!!
                               visi.com            


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 10 02:45:36 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 07:45:36 GMT
Subject: indexed looping, functional replacement?
References: <3fe406f0.0211091037.2795e538@posting.google.com> <9Xcz9.15450$XO.672555@news2.tin.it> <aqkd4m$qed$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <aql2r0$q2g$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:34:58 -0500, "Raymond Hettinger" <python at rcn.com> wrote:

>> > I would like a simpler approach to avoid having to manually maintain
>> > an index, maybe functional if possible.
>>
>> In Python 2.3, the enumerate built-in will do just that:
>>
>> [alex at lancelot alf]$ python2.3
>> Python 2.3a0 (#4, Nov  6 2002, 09:18:17)
>> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk)] on linux2
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>> >>> for x in enumerate('ciao'): print x
>> ...
>> (0, 'c')
>> (1, 'i')
>> (2, 'a')
>> (3, 'o')
>> >>>
>
>In Python 2.2.2, you can roll your own enumerate:
>
>>>> from __future__ import generators
>>>> def enumerate(seq):
>    i = 0
>    for elem in seq:
>        yield (i, elem)
>        i += 1
>
>>>> list(enumerate('later dude'))
>[(0, 'l'), (1, 'a'), (2, 't'), (3, 'e'), (4, 'r'), (5, ' '), (6, 'd'), (7,
>'u'), (8, 'd'), (9, 'e')]
>
also a lazy zip, to avoid building lists you don't use (untested beyond what you see ;-)

 >>> from __future__ import generators
 >>> def xzip(*args):
 ...     for i in xrange(min(map(len,args))):
 ...         yield tuple([x[i] for x in args])
 ...
 >>> for f,s in xzip(fl,sl):
 ...     f(s)
 ...
 f1: bbb
 f2: sdf
 f3: sdw

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From maney at pobox.com  Mon Nov 25 15:05:56 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:05:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <artvr3$cbe$2@wheel2.two14.net>

David Brown <david at no.westcontrol.spam.com> wrote:
> correctness.  This particular "feature" is a huge source of bugs and
> frustration in C programming - mixing up "=" and "==" in conditions is
> probably the biggest single cause of C program bugs.  Python, on the other

Are you speaking from experience, or is this as well-founded as the
hysterical wails about how Python's use of indentation is just wrong? 
It certainly isn't remotely near my own experience (which covers a bit
more than two decades, during much of which C was used more than
anything else).


From theller at python.net  Wed Nov 20 08:16:54 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 14:16:54 +0100
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net> <7h3zns4tpqr.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <1y5g2z6r.fsf@python.net> <7h3vg2stna5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <n0o41iux.fsf@python.net>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> Usually I let gdb start python up as far as the interactive prompt,
> use ^Z to get back to gdb, set breakpoints, use 'c' to continue my
> program and run the problem code interactively.  In particular, using
> ^Z may be less confusing than using ^C.  Not sure, though.
> 

I still must get used to job control (^Z, fg, bg).  The Minix system
where I initially gained my unix experience didn't have it.  Oh, those
were the times...

The systems at the university were much worse: a Amdahl Unix emulation
running under CM/VMS (or was it CMS?) on IBM mainframes, used via
TN3270 emulation on PCs.

Thomas


From gminick at hacker.pl  Sun Nov 24 04:40:56 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:40:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Newbie Q on searching lists
References: <3DDF1673.4020203@nyc.rr.com> <slrnau1kmc.fb.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <slrnau1l4p.mb.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:33:15 +0000 (UTC), Wojtek Walczak napisa?(a):
> Dnia Sat, 23 Nov 2002 05:45:55 GMT, Kenny Tilton napisa?(a):
>> I see the index method on lists throws an error if the element sought is 
>> not found. I was hoping it would return None.
> Yes, you're right, but it's easy to walk around:
...and of course you can still use try/except statements:

a=[1,2,3]
try:
   print a.index(4)
except ValueError:
   print 'not found'

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 26 19:16:04 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:16:04 -0800
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <20021126101601.3518.73128.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1038312216.915.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE40EC4.4507223C@alcyone.com>

Terry Hancock wrote:

> # ... whereas using a literal ...
> myfunc(2)
> 
> # ... is like using lambda
> mydispatch(lambda x: 2)

Nitpick, that should be lambda: 2.

> These are not only shorter than the temporary variable/named-function
> versions, they are clearer -- since the name "a" doesn't carry any
> meaning.
> It's only conceivable meaning is transparently what it does (i.e.
> return a 2),
> so it serves no documentation purpose to name it. In this case,
> defining it
> in place really makes more sense.

I agree.  If lambdas, map, filter, and reduce were removed from the
language or merely deprecated, I would miss them.  I do not use them
constantly, but I do use them when they're the most readable and make
the most sense and would regret their loss.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Everyone wants to look good at his own funeral.
\__/ Louis Wu
    PyUID / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/uid/
 A module for generating "unique" IDs in Python.


From martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi  Mon Nov 25 18:15:10 2002
From: martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi (Martti Halminen)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:15:10 +0200
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE040DF.EACC7D3A@kolumbus.fi> <yfsbs4ebhnl.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DE2AEFE.BF188406@kolumbus.fi>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:

> Sure, loop isn't the only iteration construct, but that doesn't really make it
> any better, does it? Especially given that all suffer from the fact that they
> only work on a quite small number of containers.

Given that every "container" in the language has sufficient iteration
constructs to handle them, I don't see this as a problem.

> > Except that those are rather new languages in comparision, from a time
> > the machine performance had already risen to acceptable values. For
> > comparision, at the time Lisp Machines were the fastest workstations on
> > the planet, they had clock frequencies like 4 MHz. The competition ran
> > 16 MHz Motorola 68020:s.
> > (Cray 1 had 80 MHz, IIRC.)

> This seems a curious argument to me: Ansi CL is about 1994, so it is actually
> newer than python and perl. The fact that things called "lisp" had been around
> before than should only have made it easier (bigger potential user base,
> greater maturity, efficient compilers etc.) for CL to compete against those
> newcomers.

The final ANSI CL standard was approved in 1994, but that doesn't mean
that the language sprung into existence from nothing at that time. The
standardization process started in 1981, when the major pre-CL Lisp
implementation groups got together to start creating a common language.
Steele's book "Common Lisp: the Language" was published in 1984; the
biggest missing piece was CLOS.
The second edition, in 1990 contained most of the stuff that ended in
the standard.

> > No such thing as "iteration class" in the language: Lisp had already
> > existed for a quarter century before it got a standardized object system
> > (plenty of non-standard, non-compatible versions before that), so the
> > control flow constructs are rather othogonal to the object system.
> 
> Sure, but a reason is not an excuse (there are also plenty of reasons why C++
> OO leaves much to be desired :)

Nothing you have written has shown an "iteration class" as anything
desirable, either. 

> > I fail to see what is so hard in that. Obviously you have to design your
> > own wrapper class if you want similar behaviour from different data
> > structures, given that the language doesn't have it built-in, but as you
> > yourself show, any given operation is only a few lines.
> 
> But that is besides the point. The python ``x = cont[indx]`` will likely
> continue to work even if I choose to replace ``cont`` with some other
> container type later. Same for ``for i in cont: ...`` etc. This is a fairly
> important abstraction barrier.

If I didn't misunderstand the Python Reference Manual, that would
require stuff like __len__, __getitem__, __setitem__, __delitem__,
__iter__ to be written by you for it to work. 

> OTOH ``(let ((x (gethash key hash)) won't. T Sure, I could go along and define
> my own generic accesor functions (CL is powerful enough for that) 

(defmethod gethash (key (hash my-hash-table-type))
   ... whatever needed for my own stuff)

(defmethod gethash (key hash) 
     (cl:gethash key hash));; default to normal

If that was difficult in your opinion, we have different definitions for
difficulty.

> >                                      ;; *why* this arg-order?
> >                Why not? It is consistent with most of the language, [...]
> > ELT probably for similarity with AREF.
> 
> Well, if you prefer then elt is inconsistent :)

Sure it is. We are talking about a language that had as one of its
primary design criteria at least some compatibility with existing code
bases in its predecessors, so many design warts had to be retained.
Obviously not a problem for people getting to define their language on a
clean slate.

> Well maybe in theory, but not in practice. The LOOP macro is
> 
> A) vendor specific, if I'm not mistaken. Although you could certainly get your
>    hands on a portable LOOP implementation, doing so might not be without risk
>    (for one the semantics might be subtly different, esp. given that LOOP is
>    often thought to be underspecified)

It is a risk for your own code, but as you would be defining the
semantics, however underspecified you like, that is your problem. The
system continues to run its built-in version for its internals
regardless of what you do in your own code (assuming you did that in
your own package, which is the only sensible way unless you actually
know what you are doing.)
 
> > complex already for most people.
> 
> Well yes, but not sufficiently general. The for loop in python is not complex,
> but more general in that it takes an infinite variety of container classes
> (including lazy ones, which obviously adds expressiveness). And I should
> suspect that people would actually like to extend loop if it weren't such a
> nightmare (also note that e.g. emacs's (cl) LOOP *is* extended).

If you like the Python looping constructs better, it is possible to
implement those in CL. Feel free.

> But why shouldn't one want to have e.g. a hash-table that
> always returns a default key instead of nil, just as a trivial example?

As a trivial example, that is already implemented, see the optional
argument for gethash. If you wanted to define the default in
make-hash-table, you could define your own class to do it: wouldn't need
to be a subclass, though you would have to define a few of the
hash-table functions as methods; most of those would be two lines of
code.
 
> I think you are conflating conflation and abstraction here :)

That may be the case, though I have never before in my life used the
word "conflating" and would have to find a dictionary to tell me what it
means.

> Overloading `+` to perform concatenation as well as addition is IMHO a really
> stupid idea, because they have entirely different semantics (and you can even
> end up with cases where you'd really like to have both concatenation and
> addition on the same type: e.g. numerical arrays).

Hey, we agree on something! :-)

> Unified item access, setting and deletion OTOH is an abstraction and thus
> helps to produce better code. If you disagree, try replacing all instances of
> SETF in your code with SETQ. 
Given that they do quite different things, I fail to see the meaning of
this. For that matter, I prefer SETQ when handling symbols: it is less
dangerous.

>Or better yet, all instances of (+ float float)
> with (+. float float), a la ocaml :)

Gives an undefined function -error, as the language doesn't have such an
operation. What does it do in ocaml?

> > Now what tools did Python have to define your own control flow
> > constructs ? :-)

> Well, for some cases where lispers think you'd need macros the iteration
> protocol and generators are actually enough (and, I guess, also better). Of
> course there are quite a few things you can conveniently do with macros that
> are awkward in python and CL has many cool things python hasn't -- but I
> really think iteration and containers are better done in python.

That may be if you are happy with just that. Quite often in Lisp
programming the datastructures are trees, graphs etc where a
single-dimensional iteration is not what is needed, so it is not such a
holy grail as you make it to be.

At one level it is a question of stylistical freedom: in Python you
program in a language which looks like Guido likes it to be. In CL you
can program in a language that looks like anything you want it to be,
assuming you consider the effort worthwhile. Not all do.

--


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Fri Nov 29 16:17:48 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:17:48 GMT
Subject: Parser building in Python
References: <mailman.1038579752.350.python-list@python.org> <m3u1i0t8gr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <r5mfuuc6tesfg1u1pm63ub9j765pk57hda@4ax.com>

>> I like to write a parser in Python.  The language itself is
>> not LALR(1), but I could do some tricks to make it LALR(1).
>> What are the best tools to write lexers and parsers in
>> Python?  Maybe sth. similar to ANTLR?

ANTLR is a great parser generator, and is fully capable of
lexing/parsing Python. ANTLR generates predicated LALL(k)
parsers, which are fully suitable for unambiguous Python.

Of course, this won't generate a parser IN python, just FOR
python. :)

C//



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 14 06:08:22 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 11:08:22 GMT
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD1AB92.3030409@something.invalid> <aqu0ji$rgg$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD2E9A0.8050500@something.invalid> <aqvqdh$377$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <ar0076$no0$0@216.39.172.122>

On 14 Nov 2002 09:29:21 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>
>To avoid the global temp, I suppose you could write
>
>    def foo():
>        const pi = [__import__('math')][0].pi
or, less ridiculously,
         const pi = __import__('math').pi
;-/
>        const seven = 7

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bkc at Murkworks.com  Wed Nov 13 17:32:43 2002
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:32:43 -0500
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <aqt734$r6j$0@216.39.172.122> <3dd27ed6$0$4440$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <149oh3oxnl53k.1tyg3jioqd4rb$.dlg@40tude.net> <3dd2ac2f$0$4474$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3dd2d024$1_5@goliath.newsgroups.com>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:3dd2ac2f$0$4474$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...

> I always really like'd Testle[1]'s method of using "boxes" and
> "glue".  It was almost identical to the layout scheme Knuth
> chose for TeX.  I spent years working on and off with Tk's
> "pack" and never could predict what it was going to do more
> than half the time.


Have you seen http://www.xwt.org

TeX layout ..





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   http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Thu Nov  7 05:07:18 2002
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 02:07:18 -0800
Subject: Adding ftputil to the Python distribution?
References: <aq6kpl$td1$1@news.online.de> <mailman.1036573573.23006.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f199e60.0211070207.5ed58c25@posting.google.com>

Gerhard =?unknown-8bit?Q?H=E4ring?= <gerhard.haering at gmx.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036573573.23006.python-list at python.org>...
> * Stefan Schwarzer <sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net> [2002-11-04 21:20 +0100]:
> > ftputil is a module for accessing FTP hosts in a more abstract way than
> > is possible with ftplib. ftputil hides the FTP protocol - and even the
> > access to an FTP server. For example, reading from and writing to file-like
> > objects corresponding to files on a remote host are possible.
> > 
> > ftputil may be of general enough use to put in into the Python standard
> > library, I was told. Comments?
> 
> I'd find it a useful addition. It could also be used from a future VFS module.
> 

Talking about a future VFS: is there already somethings planned? It
would be very nice to access a local filesystem, remote filesystem
(over ssh/scp), ftp server, webdav server,...  with the same set of
commands.

Stephan

> -- Gerhard


From jason at tishler.net  Mon Nov  4 07:15:06 2002
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 07:15:06 -0500
Subject: python -u under cygwin telnet
In-Reply-To: <954ef463.0211021945.7a1b5c05@posting.google.com>
References: <954ef463.0211021945.7a1b5c05@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021104121506.GA1320@tishler.net>

Mike,

On Sat, Nov 02, 2002 at 07:45:20PM -0800, Mike wrote:
> Perhaps somebody here can enlighten me on this.
> 
> [snip]
>
> When I try to run the python interpreter interactively from a telnet
> session, I do not get any prompts.
> 
> When I run the program, it works, but no output is displayed until it
> terminates.  Using the -u switch overcomes this.
> 
> The cygwin version of python works correctly interactively, but I
> can't use this because uspp does not work in cygwin.
> 
> I do not get this behaviour from a cygwin bash shell from the machine,
> not using telnet.
> 
> Does any of this make sense?

The above is a known issue.  See the following for some related posts:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=python+rxvt+tishler

You can also try TTYfier for a possible workaround:

    http://ns.logos-m.ru/~deo/ttyfier.html

Jason

-- 
GPG key available on key servers or http://www.tishler.net/jason/gpg.txt
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From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov 18 18:53:33 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:53:33 +1100
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
In-Reply-To: <gGeC9.17356$0U1.1722393@news2.east.cox.net>
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <3dd973b6$0$4438$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <gGeC9.17356$0U1.1722393@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <200211191053.33665.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

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On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:26, Richard Dillingham wrote:
> > Not really...  ()s don't have anything particularly to do with
> > tuples.  The comma is the tupple constructor operator: a,c is a
> > tuple (a,c) is the same tuple with parens around it.
<snip>
> Whereas if (a,b)==(c,d): print a
> DOES work.
So does if(a,b == c,d): print a
The bracket's don't make the tuple, they just protect the conditional 
statement.

Brad

- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Nov  8 10:27:26 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:27:26 +0000
Subject: Ethics in abstract disciplines (was: Making a better textbook (was 
 Re: The Deitel book))
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f@posting.google.com> <815e8a38.0211071038.208c7577@posting.google.com> <slrnasle4n.7kt.charles@homer.pentek.org> <usnhbbotggus7c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3DCBD7DE.E132BD77@hotmail.com>

Cameron Laird wrote:

> I don't understand this description.  It
> certainly interests me, though.  I take
> it that "CS" here means the kind of soft-
> ware engineering and technology that's
> typicall taught in college.  And you're
> seriously saying that sections on ethics
> appeared in half of your classes?  Can
> you give a few examples of such content?

When I was studying for Computer Science degree, in each of the 4 years
we had a term (semester) of ethics classes, 1 hour per week. These were
usually given by the same lecturers who gave courses in more technical
Comp Sci matters.

The one that really sticks out in my mind is the following question that
was posed to us in 2nd year (age ~20).

We were asked to imagine ourselves as being asked to perform a
particular task, and to state what would be our course of action in that
situation. We were to select a single answer from a choice of four:-

1. Carry out the task without complaint.
2. Carry out the task under protest.
3. Resign
4. Resign and form a protest group.

We were posed the following scenario: "You are asked to develop a
software simulation of the spread of a chemical warfare agent. The
purpose of the simulation is to maximise the death toll from the use of
that agent".

Not surprisingly, there were very few people who were willing to carry
out the task, and I think those that said they would were saying so more
to play Devil's Advocate than anything else.

But there was one surprising outcome: When asked about developing the
simulation in relation a Russian City (this was before the Berlin Wall
came down), the majority in the class chose option 3: Resign. When asked
about developing the situation in relation to a French City, the
majority of the class selected option 4: Resign and form a protest
group.

I am very glad that I had the opportunity to confront and consider such
important questions in a situation where there were no real ethical or
financial considerations. The debate much clarified my thoughts in
relation to not just the ethics of computer science, but also the
unthinking racism that is often present in otherwise well-balanced
individuals.

> I know of abundant ethical questions spe-
> cific to mathematicians.  I can supply
> plenty of examples of "fudged mathematical
> model[s]", if that'll help.

I think the above question about chemical warfare simulations applies
equally to mathematics: obviously there would be a large mathematical
and statistical input into such simulations.

These days, is there such a thing as a mathematics course that doesn't
involve extensive exposure to Computer Science?

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From whisper at oz.net  Wed Nov 13 17:03:01 2002
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:03:01 -0800
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
In-Reply-To: <_qSdnaGis_mXXE-gXTWcoQ@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEKEIKGAAA.whisper@oz.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of A.M. Kuchling
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 13:16
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Python documentation in DocBook
>
>
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:56:28 -0000,
> 	DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > My wild guess would be that there are today more people
> familiar with XML
> > than there are with \tex.  How long will the supply of tex
> afficianado's
> > last?
>
> That's irrelevant, because random people don't wander in off the
> street and write Python documentation.  The question is not "what
> format do most people know?", in which case the answer is almost
> certainly plain ASCII or Microsoft Word, not DocBook or LaTeX.  The
> question is "what format do the people who actually write
> documentation like?"  And so far that's LaTeX.
>
> --amk

How could it not be relevent? If more people know xml then know \tex, then
the number of random people who might be interested in writing python doc is
apt to be greater if python doc is in xml. It seems to me (I could be wrong)
that the need for \tex effectively bars what is probably the largest group
of python users from contributing to the doc: MS-Windows users.

I do not doubt that xml is able to generate presentations (i.e. html) at
least as good as the current pydoc presentation. I have seen webpages
generated from xml that I considered of high quality - ymmv of course.

I think the advantage of pydoc in xml is THE advantage of xml: it's easy to
slice and dice the document in different ways for different uses. I don't
know \tex, so I don't know if this is as easily done in that markup.

IMO, people don't "know" MS-Word - they push buttons and fill in dialogues.
Isn't there, or couldn't there be, GUI-based document processors based on
docbook? From an economic viewpoint, I think that's likely to be more viable
then a similar \tex processor...

I think the questions should be "How many more people would write python
documentation if it where easy?"

Dave LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA




From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Nov 18 13:59:45 2002
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Louis M. Pecora)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:59:45 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <181120021359450983%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>

In article <aqsn4t$6h2$3 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>, Carl Banks
<imbosol at vt.edu> wrote:

> The idiom you speak of is common enough.
> 
> do_A()
> if test_based_on_A():
>     take_action_A()
> else:
>     do_B()
>     if test_based_on_B():
>         take_action_B()
>     else:
>         do_C()
>         if test_based_in_C():
>             take_action_C()
>         else:
>             ...
> 

Off the top of my head (and I am not a prof.programmer or python guru)
why not use lists?

# Make lists of the functions

dolist=[do_A, do_B, do_C, ...]
testlist=[test_based_on_A, test_based_on_B, test_based_on_C,...]
actionlist=[take_action_A, take_action_B, take_action_C, ...]

# Do the lists until happy
i=0
for f in do list:
   f()
   if testlist[i]():
      actionlist[i]()
      break

Won't that or something else like it do it?  Eliminate the nesting?

-- 
Lou Pecora
  - My views are my own.


From stuart at bmsi.com  Sat Nov  9 00:32:33 2002
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 05:32:33 GMT
Subject: Python and prngd
Message-ID: <R51z9.21311$6b.851778@news2.east.cox.net>

I am running Python-2.2.2 on AIX.  It is wonderful!  I am also running
the PRNGD (Portable Random Number Generator Daemon) since AIX has no
kernel entropy source.  PRNGD is compatible with EGD - with both, you
can't simply read a socket.  You send commands to the socket and get
responses.

I did a quick search on the web, and didn't find python code to do this.
So, I reinvented the wheel.  It took less than an hour to go over the
prngd source and make a client.  Here is the result for those who may
care.

How should a small, but non trivial piece of code such as this be shared
so that others need not repeat the effort?

import socket
from struct import unpack,pack

class PRNG:
  "Provide access to the Portable Random Number Generator Daemon"

  def __init__(self,sockname="/var/run/egd-pool"):
    self.randfile = socket.socket(socket.AF_UNIX,socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    self.randfile.connect(sockname)

  def _readall(self,n):
    s = self.randfile.recv(n)
    while len(s) < n:
      s = s + self.randfile.recv(n - len(s))
    return s

  def get(self):
    "Return number of available bytes of entropy."
    self.randfile.sendall('\x00')
    return unpack(">i",self._readall(4))[0]

  def read(self,cnt):
    "Return available entropy, up to cnt bytes."
    if cnt > 255: cnt = 255
    self.randfile.sendall(pack("BB",0x01,cnt))
    buf = self._readall(1)
    assert len(buf) == 1
    count = unpack("B",buf)[0]
    buf = self._readall(count)
    assert len(buf) == count, "didn't get all the entropy"
    return buf

  def readall(self,cnt):
    "Return all entropy bytes requested"
    if cnt < 256:
      self.randfile.sendall(pack("BB",0x02,cnt))
      return self._readall(cnt)
    buf = readall(self,255)
    cnt -= len(buf)
    while cnt > 255:
      buf += readall(self,255)
      cnt -= len(buf)
    return buf + readall(self,cnt)

  def getpid(self):
    "Return the process id string of the prngd"
    self.randfile.sendall('\x04')
    buf = self._readall(1)
    assert len(buf) == 1
    count = unpack("B",buf)[0]
    buf = self._readall(count)
    assert len(buf) == count, "didn't get whole PID string"
    return buf

Other comments on the code are welcome.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.


From kfarmer at thuban.org  Wed Nov 13 01:00:48 2002
From: kfarmer at thuban.org (Keith Farmer)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 22:00:48 -0800
Subject: Exch2k event sink, Python under WSH
Message-ID: <6d668d6.0211122200.1fc00430@posting.google.com>

I know I'm not the first one to try, but if anybody's managed to do
it, they've been rather quiet about it..

I've got the following saved as a wsh file:

<script language="python">
def ISMTPOnArrival_OnArrival(msg, status):
    fout = open("c:\documents and
settings\administrator.thuban\desktop\test.txt", "w")
    fout.write("This is a test\n")
    fout.close()
    status = 0
</script>

I've used the following to register it:

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator.THUBAN\Desktop>cscript
smtpreg.vbs /setprop 1 onarrival SMTPOnArrival Sink ScriptName
"C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator.THUBAN\Desktop\ex2k_event_sink.wsh"

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator.THUBAN\Desktop>cscript
smtpreg.vbs /add 1 onarrival SMTPOnArrival CDO.SS_SMTPOnArrivalSink
"rcpt to=*"

Despite various manipulations of the script, I get no effect.  I've
attempted the same with the following vbs script which also didn't
work:

<script language="vbscript">
Private Sub ISMTPOnArrival_OnArrival(ByVal Msg, EventStatus)
    Dim fs As New Scripting.FileSystemObject
    Dim file As Scripting.TextStream
    Set file = fs.OpenTextFile("c:\documents and
settings\administrator.thuban\desktop\test-vb.txt", ForAppending, True
)
    file.Write "From: " & Msg.From & "\n"
    file.Write "To: " & Msg.To & "\n"
    file.Write "Subject: " & Msg.Subject & "\n"& "\n"
    file.Write Msg.TextBody & "\n"& "\n"
    file.Close
    EventStatus = 0
End Sub
</script>

Suggestions?


From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Nov 27 18:16:20 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:16:20 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <20021128000512.T11257@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <014c01c2966a$fed84000$21795418@dell1700>

Holger wrote:
> How does the introduction of 'yield' break old code?

Because someone, somewhere was almost certainly using yield as an
identifier.

Cheers,
Brian




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Nov  8 04:30:05 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:30:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: string.strip
References: <mailman.1036744990.32317.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns92C05F715368Bduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Stano Paska <paska at kios.sk> wrote in news:mailman.1036744990.32317.python-
list at python.org:

> in documentation: string.strip(s[, chars])
> but in real life strip takes only 1 parameter
> 
> I have python 2.2.2

There seems to be a mistake in the documentation for the string module. The 
simplest solution is to stop using the string module for most purposes, use 
the strip method on strings as that works as advertised:

>>> "--ccc--".strip("-")
'ccc'
>>> 

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Nov 19 08:11:05 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:11:05 GMT
Subject: zero-copy array slicing
References: <e5e6d03.0211190138.e7cfc0e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <JLqC9.37182$Yw.1775061@news2.tin.it>

Trevor wrote:

> Is a zero-copy array slicing operation possible?  Or would having two
> arrays share the same elements cause too many problems?  I'm thinking

Perhaps both; in any case, that's what the justly popular Numeric
package does:


> something like:
> 
>>>> a1 = array('b', [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5])
>>>> a2 = a1.subsequence(slice(1, 4))
>>>> a2
> array('b', [1, 2, 3])
>>>> a2[0] = 100
>>>> a1
> array('b', [0, 100, 2, 3, 4, 5])

>>> import Numeric
>>> a1=Numeric.arange(5)
>>> a1
array([0, 1, 2, 3, 4])
>>> a2 = a1[1:4]
>>> a2
array([1, 2, 3])
>>> a2[0] = 100
>>> a1
array([  0, 100,   2,   3,   4])
>>>


So if this the behavior you need, the simplest way to get it is exactly 
with the Numeric extensions -- builtin sequences such as lists and 
array.array instances support the safer-but-perhaps-slower approach
of making each slice a copy, differently from what happens when you
slice a Numeric.array.


Alex



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Fri Nov  8 21:45:34 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 18:45:34 -0800
Subject: field names from MySQLdb
References: <653cf871.0211081429.2b8c69c8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fsshqa.mh4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

les fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 08 November 2002 02:29 pm:

> Hi,
> how do i get field names for a table in MySQLdb?
> thanks
> (i looked into pydoc MySQLdb but did not find it there)

        One of my assorted books mentions: cursor.description
Not sure what all the data represents, but the first entry in each 
sub-tuple is the field name...

>>> db = MySQLdb.connect(db="mysql")
>>> c = db.cursor()
>>> c.execute("select * from db")
2L
>>> c.description

(('Host', 254, 1, 60, 60, 0, 0), ('Db', 254, 7, 64, 64, 0, 0), ('User', 
254, 0, 16, 16, 0, 0), ('Select_priv', 254, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0), 
('Insert_priv', 254, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0), ('Update_priv', 254, 1, 1, 1, 0, 
0), ('Delete_priv', 254, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0), ('Create_priv', 254, 1, 1, 1, 
0, 0), ('Drop_priv', 254, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0), ('Grant_priv', 254, 1, 1, 1, 
0, 0), ('References_priv', 254, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0), ('Index_priv', 254, 1, 
1, 1, 0, 0), ('Alter_priv', 254, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0))

>>> for fld in c.description:
...     print fld[0],
...

Host Db User Select_priv Insert_priv Update_priv Delete_priv 
Create_priv Drop_priv Grant_priv References_priv Index_priv Alter_priv

-- 
--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 28 15:21:37 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:21:37 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyfy97ew0o7.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <3DE666F0.32F64BA6@alcyone.com> <f6scuus406jor5ka1kr7sj80serq7215gd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3DE67AD1.59C3560D@alcyone.com>

Courageous wrote:

> But requires a specific class of editor, whereas all other editors
> around can handle basic programming languages.

Arguably that objection applies more to Python's indentation
requirements than to Lisp's parenthesis-matching requirements.  Most
modern languages -- I dare say nearly all -- have rules about matching
parentheses (and often brackets and curly braces as well, of course) and
so practically any language mode in a programmer's editor will match
Lisp-like parentheses right out of the box.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Who'd ever think it / Such a squalid little ending
\__/ The American and Florence, _Chess_
    Alcyone Systems / http://www.alcyone.com/
 Alcyone Systems, San Jose, California.


From strombrg at tesuji.nac.uci.edu  Mon Nov 18 17:50:41 2002
From: strombrg at tesuji.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 22:50:41 GMT
Subject: python lists?
Message-ID: <arbqs1$npd$1@news.service.uci.edu>

So are python lists real lists in the algorithmic sense, or something
more?  I just saw a binary search of a python list using the bisect
module, but it seems to me that should be something less than log2(n)
on a traditional linked list.  In fact, my first impression is that a
binary search of a linked list is likely to be worse than a linear
search.  Maybe a doubly linked list would be kinda reasonable.  Or
maybe something that's not quite a list but a weird hybrid-list-array
thing?

Just what are python lists?  And is it an implementation detail I'm
supposed to ignore for most purposes?
-- 
Dan Stromberg                                               UCI/NACS/DCS


From nicodemus at globalite.com.br  Sun Nov 24 00:49:27 2002
From: nicodemus at globalite.com.br (Nicodemus)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 02:49:27 -0300
Subject: newbie question: how to get directory of script?
References: <4cce07d5.0211120957.6d4934@posting.google.com> <aqt4ke$j9b$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3DE06867.1090405@globalite.com.br>

os.path.abspath(sys.path[0])
works fine in Windows XP, either executing the script as:

[d:\temp]python myscript.py
or
[d:\temp]myscript.py

I'm not sure about other plataforms, though.

Note: If the script is in the current working dir, then sys.path[0] 
returns the empty string.

Bengt Richter wrote:

>On 12 Nov 2002 09:57:43 -0800, animeshk at yahoo.com (animeshk) wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I'm sure this has been asked and answered a few zillion times: sorry!
>>
>>I want to be able to get the path of the script I am running (the idea
>>is that I might have a data file or an ini file sitting in the same
>>directory as the py file).  Okay . . . so how do I get it?  BTW, I am
>>running Python 2.2.2 under Windows XP, with the wincom extensions.
>>
>>The docs said that sys.argv[0] should have the name of the script and,
>>depending on the platform, the full path.  Nope: sys.argv[0] has the
>>full path of python.exe (this is occurring within the Wing IDE
>>environment, within PythonWin, and even from the command line).
>>
>>The docs also said that sys.path[0] should have the directory of the
>>script.  Again, nope: it has the directory of python.exe.  However, I
>>saw the directory of the script in sys.path[1].  Problem: this works
>>fine from the command line and from within the Wing IDE, but not in
>>PythonWin (PythonWin sets sys.path[1] to '').
>>
>>So . . . is there some "official"/"safe"/"standard" way of getting
>>this information?  Thanks!
>>    
>>
>
>os.path.abspath(sys.argv[0]) would be my guess for the executing script.
>
>What does the following do when you run it on your system from the
>command line? On NT4 with Python 2.2.2, if I invoke it with python
>or by file association with the script name only, I get the same output
>to both screen and the junk.txt file. If I substitute pythonw in place
>of python with the rest the same, there is no output to the screen, but
>the file output is the same.
>
># pathtest.py
>if __name__ == '__main__':
>    import sys, os
>    f = file('junk.txt','w', 0)
>    print 'argv =', sys.argv
>    f.write('argv = %s\n' % sys.argv)
>    i = 0
>    for arg in sys.argv:
>        print '%2d: %s' % (i, os.path.abspath(arg))
>        f.write('%2d: %s\n' % (i, os.path.abspath(arg)))
>        i = i + 1
>    f.close()
>
>Regards,
>Bengt Richter
>  
>






From djc at object-craft.com.au  Thu Nov 28 23:39:06 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 15:39:06 +1100
Subject: Sybase modules
References: <mailman.1038476559.9832.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m38yzdgfbp.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "ghostdog" == ghostdog  <s802645999 at yahoo.com> writes:

ghostdog> i wanted to install Sybase database module on windows
ghostdog> ..which C compiler should i use??

The Microsoft compiler is the best bet on Windows.  One user sent in
some instructions for building the module using the free borland
compiler.

        http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/sybase/install.html

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Nov 10 23:59:14 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 22:59:14 -0600
Subject: PEP #99484663
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211101929020.16433-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211101929020.16433-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
Message-ID: <1036990754.1525.123.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Sun, 2002-11-10 at 21:48, Dave Brueck wrote:
> You don't hear of long-time Python users complaining about the indentation
> thing; 

As an exception, anyone who uses or implements Python-embedded-in-HTML
style systems wants (and usually adds) an explicit block delimiter. 
It's essential in that domain.

  Ian




From johs+n at ifi.uio.no  Sat Nov  9 09:25:16 2002
From: johs+n at ifi.uio.no (Johannes =?iso-8859-1?q?Gr=F8dem?=)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 15:25:16 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqggps$d43$1@trumpet.uni-mannheim.de>
Message-ID: <lzadkirfar.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>

* Matthias Heiler <heiler at nospam-uni-mannheim.de>:

> Open-source libraries for common lisp are rare.

This might just be my impression, but it seems they are getting less
rare nowadays.  Take a look at CLiki, for example.

http://ww.telent.net/cliki/

-- 
Johannes Gr?dem <OpenPGP: 5055654C>


From bismailov at uzavtoyul.uz  Mon Nov 11 05:24:15 2002
From: bismailov at uzavtoyul.uz (Bobirkhon Ismailov)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:24:15 +0500
Subject: Cyrillic letters in 'Entry' widget
Message-ID: <000001c2896c$816728d0$430a0ac7@icycool>

Hello,

I am trying to enter cyrillic letters in text entry widgets, but it
looks like trash. I was wondering if is there any way to display entered
characters correctly on screen.

Thank you.

Bobir Ismailov

 

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From donnal at donnal.net  Thu Nov  7 07:03:11 2002
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 04:03:11 -0800
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk> <aqajfv$qqr$1@news.netpower.no> <918bc22f.0211060732.47b2198d@posting.google.com> <aqbifg$6qd$1@news.hccnet.nl> <918bc22f.0211061829.2d94e681@posting.google.com> <aqco2l$q2f$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <918bc22f.0211070403.18e19850@posting.google.com>

Bengt Richter:
> Your motivations would seem laudable, but when it comes to
> babies who are very vulnerable to mistakes [1] I would hate
> to think of, e.g., an IV dosage or flow rate accidentally
> computed with the wrong kind of division.

True. First, let me emphasize that my original question was about how
to license Project 1 (the toolkit/notation), which could *potentially*
be used to write software to run a nuclear power plant or an air
traffic control system as well as clinical applications. I would have
no more say in this regard than GvR does over how the world uses
Python. So for Project 1, a BSD-style license makes sense, and having
reached that conclusion (with the help here), I am not at all
uncomfortable with it.

As you point out, however, Project 2 is another matter. I'll say more
about this below, but in regard to "babies who are vulnerable to
mistakes" let me relate this story. Six years ago we wrote an
"application" using a spreadsheet with GUI overlay to facilitate
writing hyperalimentation fluid orders. Previous to that all of the
orders were hand-calculated by physicians. This app cut the time
required for writing hyperal orders by 70-80% and reduced the number
of errors discovered by pharmacy by 90%. We have used this program to
create over 20,000 hyperal orders, without a single known adverse
outcome. I've had dozens of individuals tell me we should market this
program. Of course it would be difficult to market a spreadsheet, and
I have had no desire to consider it. I also have no desire to release
it as open source, as long as it is in the form of a spreadsheet. But
my point is simply that this is the kind of application that cries out
for *some kind* of open source distribution. On the other hand, most
of the applications we have in mind have more to do with organizing
information than with performing calculations.

Let me also say that we have extensive quality checks OUTSIDE the
application itself. In the case of the hyperal program, a pharmacist
checks the order *carefully* before entering it, another pharmacist
checks it as it is being formulated, and then a nurse checks the order
before hanging fluids.

Incidentally, there is (now) a commercial product available to do this
task, and it carries a disclaimer that the user is responsible for
verifying the accuracy of output. Of course, the source code is not
available for us to look at.

> I would hope that you would concern yourself at least as much
> about using restrictions [2] to ensure that well-meaning but
> inadequately tested "contributions" don't get used by other
> well-meaning but perhaps not so software-QA-issue-aware folks.

Excellent point. Previously, I had not considered writing a custom
license, but this might be the place for it. (With the help of a
lawyer, of course.)

> I would think also that you are skirting very close to a whole
> raft of laws meant to protect those under medical care from
> deficient devices or procedures, and some of those probably
> override attempts to avoid liability. IANAL, but my guess is
> you might want to talk to one to get the real scoop.
>
> I.e., there (I hope) must be more of a threshold to pass
> before using software in the pediatric community than googling
> and accepting the NO WARRANTY conditions, unless it's for games
> in the waiting room or other non-critical uses. But newborn
> intensive care?? ;-/

Yes. When we looked into this a few years ago, the laws and
regulations covering medical devices were quite vague with regard to
software. But IANAL either and it is probably time to get one (or
more) involved again.

David Brown:
> Have you considered whether Python is really a suitable
> language for this job?  It is probably ideal for your first
> project, but not necessarily for the second one.  Python
> makes it easy to write great software, but it also makes it
> easy to make mistakes which can only be found at run-time.
> You might want to consider writing the key working parts
> of the software in a language designed with safety and
> reliability in mind, such as Ada (not C!), while using
> Python for the secondary work (user interface, logging
> results, or whatever).

For a while we considered Eiffel (also designed with safety in mind),
but at the time we looked into it we found the development cycle to be
too cumbersome for writing "custom applications." We have no intention
of becoming a software development shop. We are mostly interested in
"custom applications" that are not being produced by commercial
vendors. Of course safety is of crucial importance to us, but we have
found that Python facilitates the kind of custom development (and
evolution) that we are looking for. To help assure reliability,
though, we separate the abstraction layer and presentation layers and
then do extensive unit testing on the abstraction layer. In fact, we
write the unit tests first.

Regards,
Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital


From hst at empolis.co.uk  Wed Nov  6 09:43:59 2002
From: hst at empolis.co.uk (Harvey Thomas)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:43:59 -0000
Subject: regex puzzle
Message-ID: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB220DA8@hendrix.empolisuk.com>

Mike Brown wrote:
> 
> I need an example of a regular expression that:
> 
> - matches an empty string
> - matches a non-empty string
> - does NOT match a string consisting of only a linefeed
> 
> So, this test should produce [1, 1, 0]...
> 
> import re
> pat = '^(.+)?$' # FIXME
> [(re.search(pat, s) is not None) for s in ['', 'foo', '\n']]
> 
> Any suggestions? :)
> 

Why do you need a regex, or is there something you've missed out. As stated above, how about:

>>> [s != '\n' for s in ['', 'foo', '\n']]
[1, 1, 0]


Harvey

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Nov  1 14:54:42 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 01 Nov 2002 13:54:42 -0600
Subject: HTMLgen replacment module
In-Reply-To: <3dc0f443$0$4714@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <3dc0f443$0$4714@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <1036180482.2320.1982.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Thu, 2002-10-31 at 03:13, Nicholas Yue wrote:
>     Given that the last update of HTMLgen is 1998, is there any update or a
> replacement package?
> 
>     I am looking for an HTML generation package.

I wrote a very small HTML generator (*very* small) that I use for
generating HTML fragments in a project of mine:

  http://funformkit.sourceforge.net/FunFormKit/SimpleHTMLGen.py

Being small, it's pretty predictable and I think easy to understand.  

  Ian




From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 15 02:35:50 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:35:50 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org> <3DD47156.683F18B3@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037341102.23737.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD4A3D6.FF703B0F@alcyone.com>

"James J. Besemer" wrote:

> Doing "justice" to the language is not the objective.  Providing a
> "crib
> sheet" for earstwhile experts is the primary purpose.

The only reason I responded was to point out that the size of random
pocket reference guides are not particularly good indications of whether
or not Python is "pretty darn small" compared to other languages.

If your "C/C++" (again, as if that were one language) guide is 16 pages
and the Python one being discussed is 120, it's pretty clear that the
level of detail is simply not comparable.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Does the true light / Of love come in flashes
\__/ Sandra St. Victor
    EmPy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/
 A system for embedding arbitrary Python in template text as markup.


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Nov 20 21:27:40 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:27:40 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBB8BD.6020806@web.de> <h3intucpgk2dg6vhul96pg5epcfva8o8ll@4ax.com> <87ptt0otp1.fsf@theasylum.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <svgotu4nk5pkskil0g81lj5ivlcnn943d0@4ax.com>

>    C//> This little oft-repeated meme is exactly what has consigned
>    C//> Common Lisp to the dust bin of programming history.
>
>No, I don't think so.

Think all you like. Industry has spoken. Other languages = 10. Lisp = 0.

C//



From mike at skew.org  Sat Nov 23 06:04:41 2002
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 04:04:41 -0700
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org> <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com> <arksfq$bdp$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>
Message-ID: <3ddf60ca$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>

"Jarkko Torppa" <torppa at staff.megabaud.fi> wrote:
[...]
> u = urllib.urlopen('http://localhost/4m')
> fn = u.fp.fileno()
> bytea = [ ]
> while 1:
>     bytes = os.read(fn, 16 * 1024)

[...]

Thought I'd try this on Windows, too. Interestingly, os.read() on Windows
does not like fn...
OSError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor

Using the byte array approach with u.read(16 * 1024) in chunks yields about
8.4 MB/s, where as just using u.read() yields about 6.5 MB/s. This is as
compared to the ~12 MB/s on the raw socket I/O.




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Nov 14 13:00:27 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:00:27 -0600
Subject: geometry problem with Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <aquppv$28g2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
References: <aquppv$28g2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20021114180026.GE15678@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 04:11:32PM -0800, Russell E. Owen wrote:
> I've run into a problem displaying a fairly simple geometry;
[...]

I'd just like to add that if the "missing" thing is the use of "pack"
and "grid" within the same frame, this is a long-standing Tk bug that
the maintainers apparently don't care to fix.  This simple Tk script
will show the problem:
    entry .a; text .b; grid .b; pack .a; update

Jeff



From jack98lau at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  6 02:36:33 2002
From: jack98lau at hotmail.com (Jack Lau)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:36:33 +0800
Subject: How to use zipfile
Message-ID: <3dc8c6b3$1@shknews01>

Hello,

I am a beginner to learn python. Could anyone tell me how to use zipfile. I
want to zip a file like "a.txt" and zipped it into "abc.zip". Then how can I
do ?

Thanks in advance!




From klaatu at evertek.net  Sat Nov  2 23:44:49 2002
From: klaatu at evertek.net (Mike Dean)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 22:44:49 -0600
Subject: Macros in Python, and using reg exps to build a scheme interpreter
References: <mailman.1036097562.22571.python-list@python.org> <qAhw9.57298$aL4.1738214@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aq29ik$h85$1@ins22.netins.net>

<posted & mailed>

On Thursday 31 October 2002 03:50 pm, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> 
wrote in comp.lang.python:
>> And two does anyone
>> know a good place to look for how to implement a scheme parser using
>> regular expressions?
> 
> If I recall correctly, strictly speaking, regular expressions cannot
> parse a language with unlimited depth of nesting.  RE's with the many
> extensions that Python borrowed from Perl, and embedded in a richer
> language, of course, may be able to.  But the simplest and fastest
> approach is most likely to be one NOT using RE's, I would guess.
Can't find the page right now, but Jeffrey Friedl's Mastering Regular 
Expressions (from O'Reilly; really, a must-read for anyone even 
thinking about using regular expcessions) covers this very topic.  
Pretty much, there is no way for for an RE to match nested delimiters 
(braces, parents, whatever) (reason being: "RE's can't count").  An RE 
can be constructed to match an arbitrary, finit depth of delimiters (no 
more, no less, than the depth for which it was constructed), and a loop 
can be used to generate such an expression, but there is no way to 
match delimiters to a variable level of nesting.  Unless RE's have 
drastically changed since this book, which covers (in reasonable 
detail) Perl 5's regular expressions.

HTH,
Mike


From rich at DELETE_THISowl.me.uk  Wed Nov 27 16:03:24 2002
From: rich at DELETE_THISowl.me.uk (Rich Daley)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:03:24 +0000
Subject: Nastiness with global vars. How do I avoid?
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.27.21.03.24.346951@owl.me.uk>

Hi all.

I attach the beginnings of a piece of code which will become an ewtoo
<http://www.ewtoo.org> style chat room.

However, at the moment I use a global dictionary to hold the users' names,
and I realise that as the code gets bigger and longer (and more Object
Oriented) it's going to be harder and harder to maintain it this way.

Does anyone have any idea how I could use a Class instead to acheive the
same functionality? Ideally I'd love to have classes for all the different
kinds of methods and stuff too, but this is the most critical bit.

I'm not sure I made sense, so please ask me if this doesn't make sense...

Thanks in advance for your help!

~ Rich


------BEGIN CODE main.py------
#!/usr/bin/python
import SocketServer,socket,string,time

users = {}

class TalkRequestHandler(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    def handle(self):
        global users
        self.user_connect()
        stillhere = 1
        while 1:
            if not stillhere: break
            msg = self.request.recv(1024)
            if not msg: break
            stillhere = self.process(msg)
        self.user_disconnect()
        
    def user_connect(self):
        global users
        self.send_user_unterminated('Enter your name: ')
        name = self.request.recv(1024)
        self.name = name.strip()
        if not self.name.isalpha():
            self.send_user('Sorry, name must be only letters')
            return
        if users.has_key(self.name):
            self.send_user('Sorry, name in use')
            return
        self.send_all('+++ '+self.name+' connected!')
        users[self.name] = self.request
        self.look()

    def user_disconnect(self):
        global users
        del(users[self.name])
        self.send_all('--- '+self.name+' disconnected!')

    def send_user(self,msg):
        self.request.send(msg + '\n')

    def send_user_unterminated(self,msg):
        self.request.send(msg)

    def send_all(self,msg):
        for user in users:
            users[user].send(msg + '\n')

    def process(self,msg):
        command = ""
        args = ""
        if msg[0].isalpha():
            command_completed = 0
            for char in msg:
                if (not command_completed):
                    if char.isalpha(): command += char
                    else:
                        command_completed = 1
                        args += char
                else: args += char
        else:
            command_completed = 0
            for char in msg:
                if (not command_completed):
                    if char.isalpha() or char.isspace():
                        command_completed = 1
                        args += char
                    else: command += char
                else: args += char
        
        command = command.strip().lower()
        args = args.strip()

        #self.send_user("Command: "+ command+" Args: "+args)
                    
        if command == "'" or command == '"' or command == 'say':
            self.say(args)
        elif command == ';' or command == ':' or command == 'emote':
            self.send_all(self.name+" "+args)
        elif command == '~' or command == 'think':
            self.send_all(self.name+" thinks . o O ( "+args+ " )")
        elif command == ')' or command == 'sing':
            self.send_all(self.name+" sings o/~ "+args+" o/~")
        elif command == 'hug':
            self.hug(args)
        elif command == 'who':
            self.who()
        elif command == 'look':
            self.look()
        elif command == 'quit':
            self.send_user('Thanks for visiting! Come back soon!')
            return 0
        else: self.send_user("I don't know how to "+command+
                             ". I'm sorry but I'm very primitive.")
        return 1

    def look(self):
        global users
        lookstr = "Welcome to Talk! This talker is in very early stages\n"
        lookstr += "of development, and as a result it's pretty crap.\n"
        lookstr += "Please, take a look around though :)\n\n"
        if len(users) == 1:
            lookstr += "You're on your own here :(\n"
        else:
            i = 0
            userstr = ""
            for user in users:
                if user != self.name:
                    i += 1
                    userstr += user + "\n"
            lookstr += "You are here with the following " + `i` + " people:\n"
            lookstr += userstr
        self.send_user(lookstr)

    def who(self):
        global users
        whostring = "---WHO---\n"
        for user in users:
            whostring += user + "\n"
        whostring += "---------"
        self.send_user(whostring)

    def say(self,line):
        if line.endswith('?'):
            self.send_all(self.name+" asks '"+ line + "'")
        elif line.endswith('!'):
            self.send_all(self.name+" exclaims '"+ line + "'")
        else:
            self.send_all(self.name+" says '"+ line + "'")

    def hug(self,user):
        global users
        if user.lower() in map(string.lower,users.keys()):
            self.send_all("* "+self.name+" extends arms and hugs "+user)
        else: self.send_user("No user called "+user+" logged in")

class TalkServer (SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer):
    pass

addr = ('0.0.0.0', 4321)

TalkServer.allow_reuse_address = 1

server = TalkServer(addr, TalkRequestHandler)

server.serve_forever()
------END CODE main.py------

--
 ___
{o,o}	~ Rich		<http://www.owlsound.co.uk/me/>
/)  )			rich at owl.me.uk
-"-"-			ICQ# 60415679 | Jabber: owl at jabber.spodzone.org.uk



From costanza at web.de  Wed Nov 20 20:13:33 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:13:33 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037830198.31184.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arhbvt$m4e$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Delaney, Timothy wrote:
>>From: Pascal Costanza [mailto:costanza at web.de]
>>
>>Meiner Meinung nach h?ngt das im wesentlichen immer davon ab, welche 
>>Sprache man zuerst gelernt hat, oder welche man am h?ufigsten benutzt.
>>
>>If you don't understand this, would you consider German to be less 
>>readable than English? (Run that sentence through 
>>http://babelfish.altavista.com to get my point. ;)
> 
> 
> Having been involved in these debates before, I now try to avoid them
> (except when trying to get Python used on a project ;)
> 
> However, you measure readability by how readable something is at comparable
> skill levels. So if I were fluent in both German and English (I'm not),
> *and* you had provided the English version (not necessarily a direct
> translation, but the equivalent meaning) then I could make a judgement. If I
> had no fluency in either, I could not make a meaningful judgement.

No, I am saying that many statements about the readability of 
programming languages are made from a perspective of being fluent in one 
but not in the other language. I don't think that there are any 
programming languages that are per se more readable than others. Heck, 
this isn't even true for natural languages. That's the whole point of my 
argument. I could have made this example even more extreme by giving it 
in Japanese, or sign language, or Braille language.

> Likewise, the readability of Lisp vs Python can be determined at various
> skill levels. The most masic skill level is no fluency in either language,
> but fluency in English. At such a level, Python definitely is most readable
> (even someone who has neve seen Python code before can make some sense of
> Python code - the same cannot be said for Lisp).

So which of the two following expressions do you find more readable. 
According to your statement it should be the first because it's closer 
to English.

1) ADD A TO B GIVING C
2) c = a + b

Further note that the second expression doesn't make sense in any 
language other than a certain family of programming languages. For 
example, it doesn't make any sense in mathematics. (There, "=" expresses 
an equality, not an assignment.)

So why is it the case that many programmers find the second expression 
more readable without being able to refer to anything outside of the 
realm of programming languages?

> Another skill level is
> "expert" in both languages. I don't claim to be expert in Lisp - I have a
> passing familiarity with it, and so cannot judge. But I suspect that for an
> expert in *both* languages, Python is still more readable, even when Lisp is
> nicely formatted.

It's probably the case that for simple tasks, Python code is generally 
more readable than Lisp code. However, Lisp wasn't designed as a 
language for simple tasks. As soon as you get to the complicated tasks, 
I don't expect Python to be superior to Lisp with regard to readability. 
The fact that Lisp provides macros enables you to make your code even 
more readable because they allow you to express a solution close to the 
terms of the problem domain (as opposed to the terms of the solution 
domain - the programming language).

Many people complain about the Lisp syntax, i.e. the parentheses, but 
there's a deeply-rooted technical reason for that choice. The single 
most important feature of Lisp is that code and data are the same. All 
other languages I know of don't have this feature on the same level of 
maturity. In Python and other scripting languages you can create strings 
at runtime that contain code, and you can execute those strings by means 
of exec, eval or the like. That's a similar feature - however, in Lisp 
both code and data are structured equally by default. (In contrast, 
strings always have a flat structure whereas code is nested 
hierarchically in almost all cases.)

The fact that the Lisp syntax uses lots of parentheses is a result of 
this feature that code and data are the same. It's just the most 
straightforward way to have a single notation for both. In fact, it 
would be more appropriate to say that the Lisp syntax is the closest 
thing to having _no_ syntax at all. In all other languages, compilers 
and interpreters need to parse a program and translate it into an 
internal abstract syntax tree representation. In Lisp, the code you see 
is (more or less) exactly that abstract syntax tree! Code = data!

This feature (code = data) guarantees that you can never lack in 
expressive power. No matter what an arbitrary Lisp standard provides, 
you can always provide your own abstractions that have an equal status.

It's trivial to state that you can do anything with most programming 
languages, because all general-purpose programming languages are (by 
definition) Turing-complete. However, the code=data feature goes way 
beyond Turing completeness. Of course, this level of expressive power 
has its dangers - you can't afford to be sloppy when programming in 
Lisp. However, there are many people who don't want to give up this 
amount of expressive power once they have started to appreciate it, and 
they appreciate Lisp's syntax exactly for the same reason.

The ability to read Lisp code then emerges naturally from this 
appreciation. ;)

Here is some more food for thought related to this argument: 
http://www.paulgraham.com/rootsoflisp.html


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From tundra at tundraware.com  Sun Nov 10 12:20:07 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 17:20:07 GMT
Subject: Tkinter listbox selection handling
References: <co6kqa.tqk2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <aqlcss$9hd$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <0b4mqa.a4v2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:
> On 09 Nov 2002 23:48:05 GMT, Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>class myUI:
>>
>>    def __init__(self, root):
>>
>>        # Setup the visual elements
>>        self.hSB = Scrollbar(root, orient=HORIZONTAL)
>>        self.vSB = Scrollbar(root, orient=VERTICAL)
>>        self.listbox = Listbox(root,
>>                               foreground = FCOLOR,
>>                               background  = BCOLOR,
>>                               font = (FNAME, FSZ, FWT),
>>                               selectmode=SINGLE,
>>                               exportselection=0,
>>                               xscrollcommand=self.hSB.set,
>>                               yscrollcommand=self.vSB.set,
>>                               height = HEIGHT,
>>                               width = WIDTH,
>>                               )
>>
>>        self.hSB.config(command=self.y.xview)
>>        self.hSB.pack(side=BOTTOM, fill=X)
>>        self.vSB.config(command=self.DirList.yview)
>>        self.vSB.pack(side=RIGHT, fill=Y)
>>        self.DirList.pack(side=LEFT, fill=BOTH, expand=1)
> 
> 
> Here self.Dirlist is used, but where is it bound to an object?
> 
> Anton.
> 

Whoops - a transcription error - it is, indeed:   self.listbox.pack....

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From franck.lepoutre at caramail.com  Tue Nov 26 12:46:32 2002
From: franck.lepoutre at caramail.com (francois lepoutre)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:46:32 +0100
Subject: Database Programming
References: <3875fcac.0211260752.60e2e457@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3de3ac09$0$9474$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>

Hi,

We have used both environments extensively over the past 2 years
to develop commercial stuff. The portal stuff is written in python
but the admin interface is vfp-driven (could have been delphi as well).

A personal feeling:
- python is the way to go for sophisticated web-based database application
(the combo we use includes apache+python+modpthon+mxodbc,
it allows for effective  multiplatform development: win32+linux),
... for simpler stuff i'd expect that asp or php are leaner alternatives,

- vfp (currently in version 7-8 coming soon) still have a considerable edge
in terms of productivity over python if you need to develop non-trivial
data-intensive win32-only apps. Delphi shines too. Of course.

You can work it out in the opposite direction:

-build you web-based things in vfp
(See http://www.west-wind.com/webconnection/),
- build classical data-intensive c/s applications in python
(See http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/index.php or even
www.wxpython.org to
.
But all in all, vfp and python have very distinctive strengths and
weaknesses.
Python plain better for web stuff and vfp way cleaner for data-driven admin
win32 UIs.

Unless you prefer java (no experience there),  python is REALLY the way to
go for
the http production (the portal thing). It is platform-independant. A
critical asset.

Because vfp is proprietary stuff and python syntax just plain great, we'd
love to transfer
the whole admin stuff to python-only, pyqt look promising. But this is still
unrealistic to-day.
We are still significantly more productive in vfp when building traditionnal
2-tiers apps.
Possibly in a couple of years.

These are personal opinions only...

Francis

"Otis Belton" <obelton at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3875fcac.0211260752.60e2e457 at posting.google.com...
> Has anyone used Python to develop a commercial quality database
> program? What is the advantage of using Python vs a program like
> Foxpro. Any advise is appreciated.




From strombrg at tesuji.nac.uci.edu  Fri Nov 15 12:40:13 2002
From: strombrg at tesuji.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 17:40:13 GMT
Subject: bind problem
Message-ID: <ar3bht$11c$1@news.service.uci.edu>

I'm still having my previously-mentioned problem binding sockets in
python 2.2.  Things are fine on linux, but they don't work on solaris
- some solaris hosts, not all, I think.

I'm approaching the group again about it, because I've run across
another, much smaller program with the same problem - in fact it's so
small, but I think it'll be ok to post it here in its entirety.

The error I get with 2.2.1 is:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/tmp/packetpasser", line 108, in ?
    main()
  File "/tmp/packetpasser", line 60, in main
    sockin.bind(('',read_from))
socket.gaierror: (3, 'getaddrinfo failed')

I call the program "packetpasser", because it just passes packets from
one host to another.

Is there anyone else out there using sockets on solaris via python?

The code is:

# doesn't work
#!/dcs/packages/python-2.2.1/bin/pyhome

# works
#!/dcs/packages/python-2.1.3/bin/pyhome

# works
#!/dcs/packages/python-2.1.2/bin/pyhome

# works
#!/dcs/packages/python-1.5/bin/pyhome

# pyhome is just something that sets $PYTHONHOME, and then execs
# python.  It facilitates having more than one version of python on
# the same system in some situations.

# this didn't work on sol2, with early versions of python.  It seems fine
# with 1.0.3

import sys
import posixpath
import socket
import SOCKET
import select
import re
import time
import string

BUFSIZE=4096

def portno(p):
	numeric=re.compile('^[0-9][0-9]*$')
	if not numeric.match(p):
		return socket.getservbyname(p,'tcp')
	else:
		return string.atoi(p)
	
def main():
	verbose=0
	if sys.argv[1:] and sys.argv[1] == '-v':
		verbose=1
		del sys.argv[1]
	bogus_usage=0
	if sys.argv[2:]:
		read_from = portno(sys.argv[1])
		write_on = portno(sys.argv[2])
	else:
		bogus_usage=1
	if sys.argv[3:]:
		host=sys.argv[3]
	else:
		host='localhost'
	if bogus_usage:
		sys.stderr.write('usage: packetpasser input_socket output_socket output_host\n')
		sys.exit(1)
	if verbose:
		print 'input port:',read_from
		print 'output port:',write_on
		sys.stdout.flush()
	sockin = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,socket.SOCK_STREAM)
	sockin.setsockopt(SOCKET.SOL_SOCKET,SOCKET.SO_REUSEADDR,1)
	sockin.bind(('',read_from))
	sockin.listen(0)
	while 1:
		if verbose:
			print 'waiting for connection...'
			sys.stdout.flush()
		connin, (remotehost, remoteport) = sockin.accept()
		if verbose:
			print 'connection from',remotehost,remoteport
			sys.stdout.flush()
		sockout = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,socket.SOCK_STREAM)
		sockout.connect((host,write_on))
		contin = 1
		while contin:
			# wait until Something is ready
			(readyin,dummy2,exc) = select.select([connin,sockout],[],[],None)
			# then read it
			for i in readyin:
				if i == sockout:
					data = sockout.recv(BUFSIZE)
					if len(data) == 0:
						if verbose:
							print 'empty packet from sockout, exiting'
							sys.stdout.flush()
						contin = 0
					else:
						if verbose:
							print 'from dest ('+`len(data)`+')',data
							sys.stdout.flush()
						connin.send(data)
				if i == connin:
					data = connin.recv(BUFSIZE)
					if len(data) == 0:
						if verbose:
							print 'empty packet from connin, exiting'
							sys.stdout.flush()
						contin = 0
					else:
						if verbose:
							print 'from source ('+`len(data)`+')',data
							sys.stdout.flush()
						sockout.send(data)
			if len(exc) != 0:
				sys.stderr.write('exception\n')
				sys.exit(1)
		connin.shutdown(2)
		sockout.close()

main()



Anyone have any suggestions?
-- 
Dan Stromberg                                               UCI/NACS/DCS


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 12 16:30:55 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:30:55 -0800
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <mailman.1037133556.8647.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD1730F.B5FB212A@alcyone.com>

Dave Brueck wrote:

> Anyone know off the top of their head if PyChecker warns you about
> this?

Just checked with 0.8.11 and the standard settings, and it doesn't emit
a warning.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If a thing is worth doing, then it is worth doing badly.
\__/ G.K. Chesterton
    ZOE / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/zoe/
 A simple Python OpenGL rendering engine.


From tundra at tundraware.com  Sun Nov 10 14:10:07 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 19:10:07 GMT
Subject: Tkinter listbox selection handling
References: <co6kqa.tqk2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <d2122411.0211100617.520bfff5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <unamqa.h903.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

ID5 wrote:
<SNIP>

> Try this:
> 
> def handlerfunc(Index):
>         NewIndex = UI.listbox.nearest(Index.y)
>         print UI.listbox.get(NewIndex)
> 
> ID5~~

Very clever - and it works great.  Thank you.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From brian at sweetapp.com  Fri Nov 15 14:43:52 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:43:52 -0800
Subject: BUG URLLIB2
In-Reply-To: <3DD54ADD.70205@libero.it>
Message-ID: <000d01c28cdf$536b6ce0$21795418@dell1700>

bart wrote:
> I tested to set them following way:
> 
>       __name__="Mozzilla"
>       __version__="5.0"
>

That is not how you change the user agent. That job is up to an
urllib2.OpenerDirector instance (see urllib2.py#247). I don't know
enough about the urllib2 architecture to suggest a way of using your own
OpenerDirector subclass to change the user agent.

Cheers,
Brian 




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Nov  5 11:02:54 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 16:02:54 GMT
Subject: List slice assignment and custom sequences
References: <mailman.1036276862.18969.python-list@python.org> <m2k7jsm7u7.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <OYRx9.74306$aL4.2306026@news1.tin.it>

Michael Hudson wrote:

> Ronald Oussoren <oussoren at cistron.nl> writes:
> 
>> No, I want to replace part of a sequence by another sequence. I don't
>> understand _why_ the RHS must be a list if the LHS is one.
> 
> Because Objects/listobject.c:list_ass_slice pokes directly into the
> object passed on the RHS.
> 
> A patch to change this would have some chance of getting accepted;
> wouldn't like to guess what, but I'd hazard non-zero.

Done -- just submitted as patch 633870 on Sourceforge, pls review.


Alex





From fjanoos at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 14 03:09:56 2002
From: fjanoos at yahoo.com (Firdaus Janoos)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:39:56 +0530
Subject: Newbie question
Message-ID: <aqvlp2$rtb$1@tilde.itg.ti.com>

Hi,
    I know this is kind of dumb, but i cant figure out how to execute a .py
file (not a module - a pgm ) from IDLE. I am unable to "load" the file. The
IDLE menu has options for
File/Open
and File/Open Module
and neither of these open and load the file I want to execute. They just
exhibit some pretty strange behavior.
Can anyone give me a clue ?

-fj

--
Sometimes the best plan is to just have a little good luck




From b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u  Thu Nov  7 19:53:19 2002
From: b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u (Ben C)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:53:19 +1100
Subject: [Ann] ctypes
References: <65v9p2wi.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <3dcb0a90@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

I am using it and much prefer it to the calldll/windll  ... easy to use,
well documented ...

cheers

Ben C




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Nov  8 10:53:26 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:53:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: java to python
References: <1036768161.439599@news.liwest.at>
Message-ID: <Xns92C0A10175F6Cduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Christian Stockhammer" <christian.stockhammer at students.uni-linz.ac.at>
wrote in news:1036768161.439599 at news.liwest.at: 
> Is there anybody who is willing to help me. I really appreciate any
> suggestions

*any* suggestions? Here is a Python program that does the same as your
Java one :^)

import zlib, base64
print zlib.decompress(base64.decodestring(
'''eJxNj9EKwjAMRd/9inxBaJom7fwKEZ98E1e2wZjg3Itfb1PK3IXAbe4
JTS75Pb36DNe8ftbnuM09mO7TsubF3G2ah20ZTrUNDoCcCZ2zt+yWmm0gl
Ur/FIKXHYxyAH0p7fYUOKhHqaAKx2IbyPadj9RS8MqCal2KrAE5NTAYLBw
SEtdVokYMthAlz2W8a+BBdv73Mc7l0nMdIRIUPv0Apwk4QA=='''))


-- 
Duncan Booth                                            
duncan at rcp.co.uk int month(char
*p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3" 
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure? 


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sat Nov 30 01:20:38 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 22:20:38 -0800
Subject: sharing data between processes
References: <mailman.1038627881.2582.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mbl9sa.ir3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Alex Polite fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 29 November 2002 
07:38 pm:

> I need to share data between processes running on the same
> machine. One way I can think of is to write a sql backend for my
> objects and then have the processes access the same db, but that seems
> like overkill for this small project.
> 
> Google tells me that maybe http://pybsddb.sourceforge.net/ could be
> used.  Any other ideas, preferably something that's in the standard
> library? And don't tell me I should use ZODB or you'll come to regret
> it!
>

        I've not studied the full details, but might the mmap module (perhaps 
with some others for support) offer some help?


-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From marvelan at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 14 10:38:43 2002
From: marvelan at hotmail.com (M)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 07:38:43 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
Message-ID: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>

Dear Python Community,

I use Python in several projects. One of the main benefits of doing
so is that my programmers can quickly learn Python and get productive.
Python is a great language to read. Very seldom does one of my programmers
missunderstand code somebody else have written. This is one, if not the most,
important aspect of a great language. Most of the time are spent in reading
code while adding a new module (to see where it should fit) or fixing
bugs. And by definition, for a non-trivial application, this is code that
somebody else wrote.

The ability to produce readable code is one of the best things with Python.

Python more or less forces you to write nice code. This is a good thing. Not
an issue when you are a single programmer on a project. But when you have a 
bunch of programmers with different skills this is great.


But I see a disturbing trend.

Just a few examples...
The new enumerate or zip function. If you look at the code using this function 
it is not at all obvious what the code does. Let say a programmer that knows
10 other languages looks at this code. I don't think he would right away 
understand what this function does. This construct is not obvious. Generators 
are another thing that are just horrible. They just don't work in a way
that one would expect from previous experience.

I understand that one will like to add features to a language in order to
make it more powerfull. But I argue that this must be done in a way so that
programmers of *different skill levels* will understand the code. C++ is one
horrible example of a very powerfull language that very few people actually
understands fully. It takes years to fully understand C++, where does this
leave time to think about architecture and algorithms?

And no, you can't just say that these constructs should never be used. It
won't work! Every language feature will eventually be used by somebody.
Just look at the C++ world. Full of guidelines how to avoid doing things
that nobody will understand anyway. And full of code that breaks these 
guidelines. 

I hope this is not a start of adding powerfull and hard to understand
features to Python.

Cheers
/Marv


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Nov  4 11:29:09 2002
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:29:09 +0000
Subject: Tkinter problem
In-Reply-To: <369fc45d.0211040815.65a967ba@posting.google.com>
References: <369fc45d.0211031751.7ad1276@posting.google.com>
 <slrnasbm8m.s1.matt@sake.mondoinfo.com>
 <369fc45d.0211040815.65a967ba@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1036427351.4111.3.camel@m-franklin>

On Mon, 2002-11-04 at 16:15, Benson Ngai wrote:
> okButton=Button(msgWin,text="OK",command=msgWin.quit,justify=CENTER)
> #^^^^^^ Problem on this line^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^######
> 


Benson,

As Matt pointed out there is the destroy method for all toplevel windows
in Tk or in your case you could use the withdraw method:-

okButton=Button(msgWin,text="OK",command=msgWin.withdraw,justify=CENTER)


HTH
Martin







From jkraska at san.rr.com  Thu Nov 28 13:04:31 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:04:31 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <20021128000512.T11257@prim.han.de> <mailman.1038439190.14392.python-list@python.org> <r0qauuc1uoa8fn2l7beic8tjno735qe9up@4ax.com> <7h3n0nuovvh.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3vicuu46ft9te78npuqm88d98v6entgs1o@4ax.com> <7h3wumxoaty.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <eemcuusiaa38rgr855sen9q2jk5esb5vgi@4ax.com>

>> No, you wouldn't.
>
>Then I misunderstood your idea.  Care to explain further?

If the system could identify that a Continue object was being raised out
of a Generator at runtime, that is sufficient information to trap it. Runtime
type information is enough information. Identifying the type of the Continue
object and the type of the Generator at the time of the event is enough.
Compile time type information is not necessary.

C//



From keilj_33 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 26 15:13:24 2002
From: keilj_33 at yahoo.com (Jeffrey Keil)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 12:13:24 -0800
Subject: HTTP 403.1 Forbidden: Execute Access Forbidden
Message-ID: <67f6bbe5.0211261213.2ef9f3c7@posting.google.com>

Greetings:

I'm trying to run a Python CGI script on a Windows 2000 server. I get
the following error message:

HTTP 403.1 Forbidden: Execute Access Forbidden
Internet Information Services

The security on the directory is set to allow both scripts and
executables. I am able to run Perl CGI scripts in the same directory.

What do I need to do so that I can run Python CGI scripts from this
directory? I think I had a similar problem the last time I set-up a
web page, but I don't recall what I had to do to resolve this. Any
help would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Jeff Keil


From Robert_NJ_Sykes at msn.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 04:27:07 2002
From: Robert_NJ_Sykes at msn.co.uk (Rob Sykes)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 09:27:07 GMT
Subject: COM interfaces and inheritance
Message-ID: <Xns92CB6026FC70Brobjohnrichardcouk@192.168.0.246>

Hi all,

I'm having a problem with a (3rd party) IDispatch interface

The problem can be summarised thus: I have two classes, one
inheriting from the other.

class foo():
    	pass

class bar(foo):
    	self.stuff = 7


I need to create a new bar object but the 3rd party interface gives
me a method which returns foo objects

newBar = CreateFoo() # newBar should be a bar but CreateFoo returns
                     # a foo

I'm struggling with the upcasting(?) - in Delphi there is

newBar := CreateFoo() as bar

What is the Python equivalent ?

Cheers

-- 
Rob Sykes 

Born again Bairn                  | 'The despair I can live with.
rob at john-richard dot co dot uk |  It's the hope I can't stand'
(header email for spambots)       |  (Anon.)


From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 13 19:51:53 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:51:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037181865.18905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqus39$s3$1@wheel2.two14.net>

> So you do not intend every block in other programming languages? I do...

Of course I do.  But in other languages I don't seem to have so much trouble
with pointless blocks/indentation required to work around a limitation of
the language.  Other annoyances, yes, but not, usually, this one.

> How are you measuring overhead? Lines of code? Performance? My technique
> actually uses less lines of code as the number of record types
> increases.

That wasn't how I counted it in your sketch, given the need to def separate
functions for every action separate from the pattern/action table.  But that
wasn't really what I was measuring (estimating, more precisely).  I was
weighing the cost of obscuring, if only a bit, the very simple and obvious
alternation structure, along with the need to code and debug a small but
non-trivial loop (and I have some experience with how weird the errors can
be when something like this goes haywire - though Python's traceback would
probably help a good deal IFF the error caused a fault immediately when it
occurred).  A pinch of concern for the need to reinvent the mental model
when someone else, or even myself sufficently much later, has to revisit it
was surely in the mix.

> And if it required a lot of effort, I wouldn't have written the code for
> this discussion :-) In total it probably took me 30 seconds to think of
> the solution and 2 minutes to type it (mostly because my mail client
> doesn't autoindent).

Oh, I agree.  Without, admittedly, typing it, I envisioned the whole thing
in the blink of an eye... well, a slow wink, maybe.  Then I spent the rest
of perhaps a minute fleshing it out beyond the handwaving stage and decided
against it.  Truly, I have done logic-into-data transformations many times
over the years; they're one of my favorite hacks (partly because so many
folks aren't familiar with the style).  Possibly I overestimate the cost of
doing this in Python - I've only been using it for serious work since early
this year - but as I have used the technique in Python a few times
previously, I doubt it's too large an error.

> I don't really understand your complaint.

See above.  The table-driven solution is indirect and thus less obvious, at
least at the scale of this problem.  As I have said perhaps half a dozen
times now in varous branches of the thread, I would be much more favorably
inclined towards it if the pattern/action sets were larger, and more in need
of an organizing principle.



From tundra at tundraware.com  Wed Nov 13 04:50:07 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 09:50:07 GMT
Subject: Tkinter: listbox navigation
References: <0v0tqa.3kf1.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <aqt4rm$3dr$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <bn6tqa.1jg1.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

Eric Brunel wrote:
> Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> 
> 
>>I have looked high and low but cannot find an answer to:
>>
>>When I give the listbox focus, I am able to navigate around it using the
>>arrow keys. So, even if I have selected a particular item, I can move to
>>other items *which is indicated by an underlining of the currently
>>navigated item*.  So, at any moment in time, one item may be selected
>>and another underlined.
>>
>>Is there a way programmatically to force the underlining to a particular
>>item?
> 
> 
> Yep: use listbox.activate(index) and make sure your listbox keeps the 
> keyboard focus (via focus_set I suppose...). To know where the active line 
> is, use listbox.index(ACTIVE).
> 
Many thanks - just what I was looking for...


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 18:31:08 2002
From: shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com (Richard Dillingham)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:31:08 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <mailman.1037659117.8053.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0LeC9.17359$0U1.1724151@news2.east.cox.net>

if a,b>c,d: print a
  File "<input>", line 1
    if a,b>c,d: print a
        ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

> Consider that when interpreting tuples as coordinates, (1,2) == (2,1) is
probably true since...

That's not what I want at all, either. 1,2 == 2,1? Eh? Uh. That's not the
same point.

I'm temporarily storing mouse coordinates and comparing with old ones to
determine why I seem to be getting the mouse moved mesage when the mouse
coordinates haven't actually changed yet, among other things (In PyGame). I
was just thinking that the if statement would be shorter and still
understandable if done using commas, like assignment can be. That's all.

"Cliff Wells" <LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037659117.8053.python-list at python.org...




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 13 13:09:01 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 18:09:01 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037159000.15424.python-list@python.org> <aqsoo7$v8$1@wheel2.two14.net> <fzqA9.3825$744.130672@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aqu4ft$4kh$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:19:39 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
[...]
>
>I've found myself wishing for "set-and-test" basically in ONE
>kind of situation: when I was transcribing algorithms coded in
>languages that used that form, such as C.  In such cases, of
>course, it's trivially easy to build and use set-and-test, see:
>
>http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66061
>
I prefer the leaner expressions you get using a value grabber
something like (snipped from another post):

 >>> class V:
 ...     def __init__(self, v=None): self.v = v
 ...     def __call__(self, *v):
 ...         if v: self.v = v[0]
 ...         return self.v
 ...
 >>> v=V()

Then you can write stuff like

     if v(expression): 	   # saves value and tests
         print v()	   # uses the value
     elif v(other_expression):
         s = v().group(1)  # etc

or choose your own in place of v for a better mnemonic, to suit taste.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Nov  7 12:12:02 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:12:02 -0000
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list@python.org> <slrnasj332.v3h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <j465v93g42.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnasl7n2.d1h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <j465v93g42.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de>, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
>> I don't really like the idea of hacking around with the warning
>> module, so I guess I'll replace 0x80000000 with (-0x7fffffff-1) which
>> won't generate a warning on any version of Python and will work on all
>> versions... I think ;-)
> 
> I would still recommend to use 0x8000000L instead; it saves you one
> computation, and is more readable.

But that *won't work* on later versions of Python! It means I will
have a line in my code which I know will suddenly stop working at some
point in the future and I will have to make a new release and everyone
will have to upgrade their copies of my module just because I put in
code which I knew wasn't going to work.


From kokohh at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  6 16:36:07 2002
From: kokohh at hotmail.com (koko)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:36:07 GMT
Subject: decision tree by python
Message-ID: <aXfy9.4654$mN6.1820643@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

i am trying to construct a decision and classifiy a set of data using GINI
index.
Is there any references?




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov 23 17:05:04 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:05:04 -0600
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
In-Reply-To: <4992.92T2618T9825720threeseas@earthlink.net> ("Timothy Rue"'s
 message of "Sat, 23 Nov 2002 21:28:11 GMT")
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>
	<743utuoi3l31t8e8tt9v3sncosuk2gqi02@4ax.com>
	<1239.92T1047T4844497threeseas@earthlink.net>
	<mailman.1038067952.28943.python-list@python.org>
	<4992.92T2618T9825720threeseas@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <m27kf4djsf.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Timothy" == Timothy Rue <threeseas at earthlink.net> writes:


    Timothy> In summary what you are saying is that there is a tower
    Timothy> of babel between not only client and coder but between
    Timothy> languages as well. The result of this is that anyone in
    Timothy> the position of a client really needs to learn the
    Timothy> details of whatever specific language, including any
    Timothy> other specifics of the use of a language, such as
    Timothy> platform dependant issues, before they consider hiring a
    Timothy> coder to produce, what the client designs. Otherwise how
    Timothy> the hell is the client to communicate to the coder what
    Timothy> the fuck they want?

When I was a graduate student trying to build some electronics, I
would frequently head up to the electronics shop where a super hard
core guru resided; he could build PET scanners by hand.  I would say I
needed capacitor A and switch B.  We'd search through all his drawers
looking for the part I needed and if we couldn't find it, he'd say,
will capacitor C do instead?  I'd say, hell, I don't know, you're the
expert.  And he'd say, well, what are you trying to do?  I'd tell him
what I was trying and he would say, 'No no no, you don't need any of
that.  What you need to do is this'.

This scenario was repeated many times, and it took me a long time to
learn that when you are the client, you need to tell them what you
need to do, not how to do it.

There is a lot of jargon and syntax and subtlety in the programming
world.  Most expert programmers know many languages and can easily map
concepts from one onto another.  Most technically savvy clients
cannot.  So the technically savvy client needs to stay focused on what
they want to do (as you do below when you spell out the need for
persistence across server reboots, concurrence, locking, platform
independence, human readable, etc...).

So I don't think the real problem is a tower of babel.  The real
problem is that the client and coder (intermediary) need to stay
focused on problem descriptions and solutions, not low level technical
implementations.

You have identified your problem fairly well below.  Some more
information would be helpful.  How many users?  Exactly which
platforms?  You probably don't need true independence, which doesn't
exist.  How big are the data chunks?  Is this mission critical data?

Then your coder can provide different alternative solutions with cost
estimates and spell out how well each of them meet your criteria.  If
the coder can't present them in problem description/solution
language, you should look for another coder.

I suspect if you supplement your problem description made in your
previous post with some additional quantitative information, you'll
get some answers to your questions here about how well python and
other technologies support them.

Off the cuff, for moderate to large projects using only free, open
source technologies, a combination of the following (which all play
very well together) meet many of your requirements:

-- Platform independence: python clients with platform independent
   graphical user interfaces (GUI).  If you want clients on Windows,
   Mac OS, linux and some major UNIXes UNIXs, your coder can choose
   between many GUI libraries (wxpython, tkinter, pygtk, ...).  If you
   want handheld support, your choices will be more limited.

-- Concurrency, locking and persistence: I've read that the database
   postgresql which is readily controllable by the python clients
   provides fairly good transactional support.  I've been told it
   doesn't scale well to very large numbers of concurrent
   transactions, so the size of your project may be important here.

-- Human readability.  Extensible Markup Language (XML) is widely
   regarded as the dominant standard for data storage that needs to be
   both machine and human readable.  You can combine this with
   databases by storing the XML in a database text field.  python has
   a number of built-in tools as well as powerful extensions for
   handling this data efficiently.


John Hunter



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  4 19:51:30 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:51:30 -0700
Subject: help() function
References: <0h2esukvqtolp17lt0hdg72ua9t038k18v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <aq74mi$m0v$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Chris Spencer wrote:

>         Is there any way to get the same docstring formatting that help()
>         uses,
> but be able to capture it to a variable or a file handle?
>         Inquiring minds want to know.
> 

You can redirect sys.stdout to whatever you want. Just wrap the help() call 
and trap stdout access to a file. I bet you can do it in under 10 lines.

Cheers,

f.


From wks000 at t-online.de  Sat Nov 30 08:21:10 2002
From: wks000 at t-online.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:21:10 +0100
Subject: the real .pyc file
References: <mailman.1038246454.8932.python-list@python.org> <3DE45656.AFCBD01B@engcorp.com> <as350j$851$0@216.39.172.122> <cl1euucqtauss2mqebkscv24jek5r6p65f@4ax.com> <mailman.1038581692.30589.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <npehuu8a8iboss06fd8bmvbeth9vbsue8g@4ax.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net>:

>This one isn't ANSI C, but fits on one line and is accepted (with
>warnings) by gcc "2.96" with warnings:
>
>x=""" ";int main(){puts("xxx");} y=" """;z=""" ";//" """ and 1//1;print"xxx"

Hm. I don't see a way of getting rid of these warnings, and the
duplication of xxx is somewhat ugly. 

The creative use of // is nice, though.  I didn't think of that. 

-- 
Thank you for observing all safety precautions


From mike at skew.org  Sat Nov 23 03:42:30 2002
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:42:30 -0700
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org> <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com> <82c04a2.0211220437.3181e213@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ddf3f76$1_1@omega.dimensional.com>

"Roberto Amorim" <wolfoxbr at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I got similar results to the FreeBSD times running your server/client
> scripts on a Windows 2000 machine with Python 2.2.2.

Using 2.2.1 on a Windows 2000 machine, I got similar results as well.

> I've noticed the Python versions are different (2.1.1 on Mandrake,
> 2.2.1 on FreeBSD). Perhaps you should try the same version? Python 2.2
> introduced the new type/class structure and perhaps sockets were
> affected (for some unknown reason).

Using 2.1.1 on FreeBSD, the results are the same as they were under 2.2.1.

> It's really odd, since FreeBSD sockets usually have very good
> performance. Did you try wget on FreeBSD? Is it normal?

FreeBSD doesn't come with wget, though it's easy to install. fetch, as used
by the ports collection, is functionally equivalent. And yes, it's normal...

/usr/bin/time fetch http://localhost/4MBfile
Receiving 4MBfile (4343332 bytes): 100%
4343332 bytes transferred in 0.7 seconds (6.20 MBps)
        0.79 real         0.01 user         0.06 sys

Off to try some of the other suggestions...




From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 15 17:48:49 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:48:49 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org> <3DD47156.683F18B3@alcyone.com> <m2r8dnggt0.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3DD579D1.DB7D5472@alcyone.com>

Paul Foley wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:00:22 -0800, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
> > You keep glossing over the difference between C and C++, but they
> > are
> > not the same thing,
> 
> Hmm.  That's what some of us keep saying about Scheme and Lisp.
> Someone recently called me a crackpot for saying so.

Scheme and (Common) Lisp aren't the same language, of course, but they
are obviously related.

> Is it
> not-crackpottery to tell people C and C++ (which are far closer than
> Scheme and Lisp) are not the same thing?

Just as C and C++ are obviously related, that doesn't mean they're the
same language.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You are in the music / In the man's car next to me
\__/ Sade
    Rules for Buh / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh.html
 The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.


From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Nov 20 20:52:52 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:52:52 -0500
Subject: python-dev Summary, 2002-11-01 through 2002-11-15
In-Reply-To: <20021120085035.28636.00000048@mb-bj.aol.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEACCOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Brett C.]
> This was a slight problem because if the extension file doesn't build
> under Windows it can't be included in the PythonLabs Windows distro.
> So keep in mind that if your module won't directly compile for 6
> different versions of Windows it won't be included in the Windows
> distro.

[TeaAndBikkie]
> This restriction seems a bit unfriendly...

Na, the PLabs Windows distro is a binary distro, compiled with MSVC 6, and
including precompiled versions of various 3rd-party packages so that the
majority of Windows users don't have to do a thing.  In this case, the bz2
module will be in the 2.3 PLabs Windows distro (that's already checked in to
CVS, including the necessary installer changes).

> is there any direction to getting python compilable on/for windows
> with an open source compiler, eg. gcc, mingw, etc?

Jason Tishler does an excellent job on the Cygwin port, and Python is part
of "the normal" Cygwin download.  If you want to compile it yourself, be our
guest <wink>.




From imbosol at vt.edu  Thu Nov 21 02:21:24 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:21:24 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037830198.31184.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aribdg$3co$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Delaney, Timothy wrote:
> But I suspect that for an expert in *both* languages, Python is
> still more readable, even when Lisp is nicely formatted.


I more than agree.  

In Lisp, assignment looks like dictionary (hash table) access which
looks like attribute access which looks like list construction which
looks like looping which looks like class definitions.

In Python, all of those things look visually distinct, more or less.
Consequently, they require less mental effort.

Want to scan a function to find out where a certain variable is
defined?  It's much easier in Python, because assignment looks
different from everything else.

I program in both Python and Common Lisp; I wouldn't call myself
fluent in Lisp (yet), but I think Python is easier to read than Lisp
by a mile.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From graduate_2002 at sina.com  Tue Nov  5 02:17:17 2002
From: graduate_2002 at sina.com (Jame.Thu)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:17:17 +0800
Subject: Largeint.h
References: <3dc55de7$0$239$1b0f2dd5@mercury.nildram.co.uk>
Message-ID: <aq7rh2$2e34$1@mail.cn99.com>

/*
  largeint.h

  Header for 64 bit integer arithmetics library

 */
#ifndef _LARGEINT_H
#define _LARGEINT_H

#include <windows.h>

#ifdef __cplusplus
extern "C" {
#endif

#ifdef _HAVE_INT64
#define _toi (__int64)
#define _toui (unsigned __int64)
#else
#error "64 bit integers not supported"
#endif

/*
  We don't let the compiler see the prototypes if we are compiling the
  library because if it does it will choke on conflicting types in the
  prototypes.
*/

#if defined(LARGEINT_PROTOS) || defined(__COMPILING_LARGEINT)

#ifndef __COMPILING_LARGEINT
/* addition/subtraction */
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI LargeIntegerAdd (LARGE_INTEGER, LARGE_INTEGER);
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI LargeIntegerSubtract (LARGE_INTEGER, LARGE_INTEGER);

/* bit operations */
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI LargeIntegerArithmeticShift (LARGE_INTEGER, int);
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI LargeIntegerShiftLeft (LARGE_INTEGER, int);
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI LargeIntegerShiftRight (LARGE_INTEGER, int);
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI LargeIntegerNegate (LARGE_INTEGER);

/* conversion */
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI ConvertLongToLargeInteger (LONG);
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI ConvertUlongToLargeInteger (ULONG);

/* multiplication */
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI EnlargedIntegerMultiply (LONG, LONG);
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI EnlargedUnsignedMultiply (ULONG, ULONG);
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI ExtendedIntegerMultiply (LARGE_INTEGER, LONG);
/* FIXME: is this not part of largeint? */
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI LargeIntegerMultiply (LARGE_INTEGER, LARGE_INTEGER);
#endif /* __COMPILING_LARGEINT */

#else

#define LargeIntegerAdd(a,b) (LARGE_INTEGER)(_toi(a) + _toi(b))
#define LargeIntegerSubtract(a,b) (LARGE_INTEGER)(_toi(a) - _toi(b))
#define LargeIntegerRightShift(i,n) (LARGE_INTEGER)(_toi(i) >> (n))
#define LargeIntegerArithmeticShift LargeIntegerRightShift
#define LargeIntegerLeftShift(i,n) (LARGE_INTEGER)(_toi(i) << (n))
#define LargeIntegerNegate(i) (LARGE_INTEGER)(- _toi(i))
#define EnlargedIntegerMultiply(a,b) (LARGE_INTEGER)(_toi(a) * _toi(b))
#define EnlargedUnsignedMultiply(a,b) (LARGE_INTEGER)(_toui(a) * _toui(b))
#define ExtendedIntegerMultiply(a,b) (LARGE_INTEGER)(_toi(a) * _toi(b))
/* FIXME: should this exist */
#define LargeIntegerMultiply(a,b) (LARGE_INTEGER)(_toi(a) * _toi(b))
#define ConvertLongToLargeInteger(l) (LARGE_INTEGER)(_toi(l))
#define ConvertUlongToLargeInteger(ul) (LARGE_INTEGER)(_toui(ul))

#endif /* LARGEINT_PROTOS || __COMPILING_LARGEINT */

#ifndef __COMPILING_LARGEINT
/* division; no macros of these because of multiple expansion */
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI LargeIntegerDivide (LARGE_INTEGER, LARGE_INTEGER,
PLARGE_INTEGER);
ULONG WINAPI EnlargedUnsignedDivide (ULARGE_INTEGER, ULONG, PULONG);
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI ExtendedLargeIntegerDivide (LARGE_INTEGER, ULONG,
PULONG);
LARGE_INTEGER WINAPI ExtendedMagicDivide (LARGE_INTEGER, LARGE_INTEGER,
int);
#endif /* __COMPILING_LARGEINT */

#define LargeIntegerAnd(dest, src, m) \
{ \
  dest._STRUCT_NAME(u.)LowPart = s._STRUCT_NAME(u.)LowPart &
m._STRUCT_NAME(u.)LowPart; \
  dest._STRUCT_NAME(u.)HighPart = s._STRUCT_NAME(u.)HighPart &
m._STRUCT_NAME(u.)HighPart; \
}

/* comparision */
#define LargeIntegerGreaterThan(a,b) (_toi(a) > _toi(b))
#define LargeIntegerGreaterThanOrEqual(a,b) (_toi(a) >= _toi(b))
#define LargeIntegerEqualTo(a,b) (_toi(a) == _toi(b))
#define LargeIntegerNotEqualTo(a,b) (_toi(a) != _toi(b))
#define LargeIntegerLessThan(a,b) (_toi(a) < _toi(b))
#define LargeIntegerLessThanOrEqualTo(a,b) (_toi(a) <= _toi(b))
#define LargeIntegerGreaterThanZero(a) (_toi(a) > 0)
#define LargeIntegerGreaterOrEqualToZero(a) ((a)._STRUCT_NAME(u.)HighPart >
0)
#define LargeIntegerEqualToZero(a) !((a)._STRUCT_NAME(u.)LowPart |
(a)._STRUCT_NAME(u.)HighPart)
#define LargeIntegerNotEqualToZero(a) ((a)._STRUCT_NAME(u.)LowPart |
(a)._STRUCT_NAME(u.)HighPart)
#define LargeIntegerLessThanZero(a) ((a)._STRUCT_NAME(u.)HighPart < 0)
#define LargeIntegerLessOrEqualToZero(a) (_toi(a) <= 0)

#ifndef __COMPILING_LARGEINT
#undef _toi
#undef _toui
#endif

#ifdef __cplusplus
}
#endif

#endif /* _LARGEINT_H */

"Andrew Wilkinson" <ajw126NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3dc55de7$0$239$1b0f2dd5 at mercury.nildram.co.uk...
> Hi,
>
> Python 2.2.2 doesn't compile under VS.Net because they've removed
largeint.h
> from the Platform SDK, the current workaround  is to copy the file from
VS6.
> I don't have VS6, does anyone know where I can download this file? I'd
> really like to be able to debug my Python extensions...
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Wilkinson
> ---
> Quiet! You'll miss the humorous conclusion
>
>




From christophe.delord at free.fr  Fri Nov  8 01:23:59 2002
From: christophe.delord at free.fr (Christophe Delord)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:23:59 +0100
Subject: Help me out with bugs in my list ?
References: <mailman.1036729150.25005.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20021108072359.56dada74.christophe.delord@free.fr>

Hi,

You can use zip to make tuples from a list and check unicity of the tuples
instead of its components.

For example:

-----
def uzip(*Ls):
    """ zip filtering duplicate tuples """
    L = []
    for x in zip(*Ls):      # for each tuple
        if x not in L:      # filter duplicate tuples
            L.append(x)
    return zip(*L)          # returns a list for each item of the tuples

binding_list = ["ls","ls","ls","netscape","netscape","lib","lib"]

to_list = ["ls","lib","ls","netscape","ls","lib","lib"]

new_binding_list, new_to_list = uzip(binding_list, to_list)

print "new_binding_list:", new_binding_list
print "new_to_list     :", new_to_list
-----

new_binding_list: ('ls', 'ls', 'netscape', 'netscape', 'lib')
new_to_list     : ('ls', 'lib', 'netscape', 'ls', 'lib')

-----

Christophe.

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:18:29 -0800 (PST)
Mindy <csshi99 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hey, I have two lists like:
> binding_list =
> ["ls","ls","ls","netscape","netscape","lib","lib"]
> 
> to_list =
> ["ls","lib","ls","netscape","ls","lib","lib"]
> 
> I want to get non-duplicated pairs of strings from
> them like
> (binding_list[i],to_list[i]) by eliminating the
> duplicated pairs. For the above two lists, I want to
> get two new lists:
> binding_list = ['ls', 'ls', 'netscape', 'netscape',
> 'lib']
> to_list = ['ls', 'lib', 'netscape', 'ls', 'lib']
> 
> My codes are like the following, but I got the result
> as:
> binding_list = ['ls', 'ls', 'netscape', 'netscape',
> 'lib','lib']
> to_list = ['ls', 'lib', 'netscape', 'ls', 'lib','lib']
> 
> With the last two pairs duplicated. I know I was wrong
> because at the last loop, index1 = 4, index2 =1, even
> though the fifth pair is the same with the fourth
> pair, my codes can't detect this. Could anyone help me
> to get a correct piece of codes? Thanks so much!
> 
> My codes:
> ----------------
> for i in range(1,len(binding_list)):  
>     if (i == len(binding_list)): 
> 	break
> index1 = binding_list.index(binding_list[i])
> index2 = to_list.index(to_list[i])
> if ((index1 >=0)and(index2 >=0)and(index1==index2)):
> 	del binding_list[i]
> 	del to_list[i]
> 
> print binding_list
> print to_list
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> Cheers
> -Mindy
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
> http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
> 


-- 

(o_   Christophe Delord                   _o)
//\   http://christophe.delord.free.fr/   /\\
V_/_  mailto:christophe.delord at free.fr   _\_V


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 11 04:56:57 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:56:57 GMT
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com>
Message-ID: <J9Lz9.15955$Bs5.566768@news1.tin.it>

Paul Rudin wrote:

> I'm having a little play with python, just to try it out; and one
> thing that I find I miss from other languages is something like lisp's
> if:
> 
> (if x y z)
> 
> which returns y if x is true and z otherwise.
> 
> I realise that I can define a function that does this for me; but is
> there a succinct way of expressing this in the base language?

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52310
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52282

The printed (O'Reilly) version of the Python Cookbook has a
better-organized merge of these two recipes -- you can read
it online with O'Reilly's "Safari" service (which is for-pay,
but I think you can get a sample subcription for a few days
for free -- not sure about the latter part, though).


Alex



From neal at metaslash.com  Fri Nov  1 17:26:36 2002
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:26:36 -0500
Subject: Abort in garbage collector in 2.2.2
References: <871c2723.0211011234.6d807ec0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.01.22.26.35.603483.12688@metaslash.com>

On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 15:34:43 -0500, Christophe wrote:

> I'm getting this error while sourcing some scripts in python 2.2.2:
> 
> Assertion failed: STILL_A_CANDIDATE(op), file python/Modules/gcmodule.c,
> line 366
> 
> The stack trace shows this:
> 
>   ---- called from signal handler with signal 6 (SIGABRT) ------ [10]

	[snip]
>   [32] run_node(0xc7dc8, 0xfeaae2a4, 0x85f020, 0xa5b220, 0x0, 0x8), at
> 0xfe997f88
>   [33] run_err_node(0xc7dc8, 0xfeaae2a4, 0x85f020, 0xa5b220, 0x0,
> 0xff00), at 0xfe997f00
>   [34] PyRun_String(0xa59a84, 0x101, 0x85f020, 0xa5b220, 0x9d7e28,
> 0x0), at 0xfe997a24
>   [35] exec_statement(0x296360, 0xa59a70, 0xfea5b584, 0xfea5b584, 0x3,
> 0xffffffff), at 0xfe8db484

In addition to Martin's questions...

Apparently, you are exec'ing something.  What is the string?  Are you
using dictionaries other than globals and locals?

Neal


From rodrigobamboo at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 21 19:11:53 2002
From: rodrigobamboo at hotmail.com (Rodrigo B. de Oliveira)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 16:11:53 -0800
Subject: Python embedding question: how to expose a new "builtin"?
References: <ad9ea6f1.0211190807.73bfe1a1@posting.google.com> <awtC9.38553$Yw.1818910@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ad9ea6f1.0211211611.49f526e9@posting.google.com>

> 
> Looks to me like the problem is with the _pyapplication object
> rather than with the exposing of it in the built-ins module.  What happens 
> if you architect another way to let Python code get at that same object?  
> Does "is" show the two ways give the same object, and what are the
> symptoms on e.g. dir for each?  I think you should get the same
> results, confirming the problem is with the object and not with
> the way you're choosing to expose it.
> 

Now I'm really confused!

This code

<snip language="python">

print dir(application)
print type(application)
print dir(type(application))
print dir(application)

</snip>

has the following output:

<output>
[]
<type 'isapy.Application'>
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__',
'__hash__', '__init__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__repr__',
'__setattr__', '__str__', 'addHandler', 'minThreadPoolSize', 'onEnd',
'path']
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__',
'__hash__', '__init__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__repr__',
'__setattr__', '__str__', 'addHandler', 'minThreadPoolSize', 'onEnd',
'path']
</output>

After the code "dir(type(application))" executes everything works as
expected (application is correctly installed and I can call its
methods and access its properties).

What could be possibly causing this behavior?

Thanks in advance,
Rodrigo


From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Nov 21 11:38:24 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 08:38:24 -0800
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com>

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.) wrote in message news:<mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list at python.org>...
> Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote previously:
> |Try two or three months [to learn Common Lisp], at worst.  A competent
> |and experienced programmer can probably learn a language like Common
> |Lisp in a couple weeks in their spare time.
> 
> There's a strange phenomenon with programmers, especially (but not
> exclusively) ones who are attached to one or a couple favorite
> langauges.  They claim--rather persistently--that someone/anyone can
> learn their language in an absurdly short time period.
> 
> Sometimes it is "a few hours to pick up the basics of Python;" other
> times "a couple weeks to master CL;" or occasionally "a few months to
> become an expert in X."  All these claims are quite literally
> unbelievable... and yet they come up over and over from every advocate.
> 
> The funny thing about all the claims is that they are enthymatic
> contrasts with all "those other languages."  The writers apparently
> expect readers to have a realistic sense about how long it takes to
> learn most programming languages (months or years), so the silly claim
> about <favorite-language> is then drawn as such a strong contrast with
> that.  But as soon as anyone explicitly STATES the claim that
> <non-favorite-language> actually takes -many- months to learn, the
> optimistic "days" for <favorite-language> appears as an absurdity rather
> than a language advantage.
> 
> It's a funny structure... sort of like what ordinary language
> philosophers (Grice or Dummett, I think) call "essentially accidental"
> events.  But this is "essentially implicit."
> 
> Yours, David...
> 
> P.S. I'm a pretty smart guy, btw.  From kindergarten through doctorate,
> I always learned things faster than just about everyone around me.  I
> remember more than almost anyone I know.  Everywhere I've worked as a
> programmer, I've been pretty much the best one at the site.
> 
> And you know what:  I CANNOT learn CL in a couple weeks of my spare
> time.  I've spent more than that, and understand little about it,
> really.  When I first learned Python, it took me much longer than a few
> hours to pick up even the barest essentials.  And when I have programmed
> with languages fulltime for several years, I continued to learn new
> things about them after those years.

I think the problem is with the definition of "learning".

It is true that you can read the Python tutorial in couple of hours,
"understand" most of it and start immediately programming in Python.
In a couple of days you can also write some non-trivial program (I wrote
my first non-trivial program with Python within a week, working on my
spare time). But this does NOT mean that you have learned Python. You 
have only learned the syntax: what you are doing is to mentally translate 
from the other languages you already know to Python. The understanding
of the syntax can give you a fake sense of "power", in the sense that
it seems to you that you have learned the language but it is NOT so. 
It takes a much longer time to become to *think* in Python. I started 
six months ago and I am still in the process of adapting my way of 
thinking to the language. This is much harder than adapting the language 
to your way of thinking. But eventually you must do it if you really 
want to understand the language. One of my professor of Physics once
said "students shoul remember that learning is of a process of inelastic 
shock". He meant that students should not look for magic shortcuts; 
learning is *hard* since it modifies your mind and after you have learned, 
your mind is not the same as before. Conversely, if your mind is the same 
as before, then you haven't learned anything of relevant ;-).

It is also true that most people DO NOT want to understand a programming 
language, sometimes for very good reasons: i.e. they have more important 
things to understand. This is why they prefer an "easy" language, where 
I would define "easy" a language that can easily be adapted to your 
pre-existing way of thinking. In this sense, Python is exceptionally easy, 
since it has a familiar syntax and it can be programmed in the procedural way, 
that most people already know. CL instead is difficult because the syntax 
is unfamiliar and you have to change your way of thinking from the very 
beginning (for instance you must get used to the prefix notation); moreover 
most CL programs are more sophisticated than simple procedural programs and 
are not easy to read if you don't already  know lots of concepts in computer 
science. It is true that you can get used to the CL syntax in a couple of 
weeks  a write some program: but still you don't know CL.

To bring another example, I am now in the process of learning OOP, coming
from traditional procedural programming. It tooks to me few days 
to understand the syntax and the basic concepts of OOP in Python:
but it takes many months to get used to the OOP way of thinking.
Probably the process is simpler for a newbie who doesn't know anything,
whereas my mind is polluted by years of procedural programming. On the
other hand I have less problems with functional programming, which is
quite natural for somedoby having a strong mathematical background: I
would naturally solve a problem in a functional way, but more often than 
not I prefer do not code in this way since I think it is less readable;
for instance. I tend to use the more readable list comprehension instead 
of map, even if in my mind map is more elegant and somewhat preferable.

Final thought: different persons have different way of thinking.
Different programming languages have different philosophies. It is not
strange at all that when you find a language that fits you mind, it is
*for you* much easier to learn than other languages. That said, I agree
with the OP, you can't understand any language worth of this name in a 
couple of weeks, no matter as smart you are.

--
Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/


P.S. this a good moment to ask a question I always wanted to ask to 
David Mertz ;-) :  Why the Ph.D. title in the signature ? Most of
the people I know don't do that (myself included). Maybe there a
misterious reason...

P.P.S. David, this is a joke; seriously I take the occasion to say I have
read your articles on "Charming Python" and your book "Text Processing
in Python" which I appreciate very much. Bravo! Very pedagogical and very
useful. When it will be printed ?


From Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM  Tue Nov 12 08:01:00 2002
From: Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM (Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 05:01:00 -0800
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ?
Message-ID: <44ee1dc2.0211120501.2c9e3215@posting.google.com>

with Re : in Subject line, with groups.google, it DIDN'T place in the
thread, but as a separate message( new thread, NOT answer In a thread
). Now trying with NO Re : in the subject


From costanza at web.de  Wed Nov 13 08:33:09 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:33:09 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnasvo0e.32k.Andreas.Leitgeb@pc7499.gud.siemens.at> <3DCFDE7A.8010404@web.de> <slrnat29ke.32k.Andreas.Leitgeb@pc7499.gud.siemens.at>
Message-ID: <3DD25495.6040505@web.de>

Andreas Leitgeb wrote:

> I'd have rewritten it differently (to show the point I was
> trying to make by calling the scheme-snippet ugly):
>   2    if (cardList.size() == 0) return false;
>   3    else if (!cardList.get(0).isVisible()) return false;
>   4    else return ((slotId == 1) || (slotId > 5));
> Now this doesn't make a big difference here, but it makes 
> a lot of a difference, once, things get longer and deeper nested.

I wanted to try the following, so I did. I don't if this would help in 
practice, though... ;)

(defun chained-if (form &key (level 0))
   (cond
    ((symbolp form) form)
    (t (let ((rest (nthcdr 2 form)))
         (cond
          (rest
            (case (first form)
              ('and `(if not ,(second form) then return false
                      else ,@(chained-if (cons 'and rest)
                                         :level level)))
              ('or  `(if ,(second form) then return true
                      else ,@(chained-if (cons 'or rest)
                                         :level level)))))
          ((> level 0)
             `(,(chained-if (second form) :level (1- level))))
          (t
             `(,(second form))))))))

(defun cprint (form)
   (mapc (lambda (elm)
           (when (eq elm 'else) (format t "~%"))
           (format t "~A " elm))
         form))

Now you can do the following.

 > (cprint
    (chained-if
     '(and (not (null card-list))
           (is-visible-p (first card-list))
           (or (= slot-id 1)
               (> slot-id 5)))))
if not (not (null card-list)) then return false
else if not (is-visible-p (first card-list)) then return false
else (or (= slot-id 1) (> slot-id 5))

 > (cprint
    (chained-if
     '(and (not (null card-list))
           (is-visible-p (first card-list))
           (or (= slot-id 1)
               (> slot-id 5)))
     :level 1))
if not (not (null card-list)) then return false
else if not (is-visible-p (first card-list)) then return false
else (if (= slot-id 1) then return true else (> slot-id 5))


All the best,
Pascal

-- 
Pascal Costanza               University of Bonn
mailto:costanza at web.de        Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de  R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)



From cbrown at metservice.com  Tue Nov 26 19:18:24 2002
From: cbrown at metservice.com (Colin Brown)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:18:24 +1300
Subject: Q: serial port transmit pending count
Message-ID: <3de40f51$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net>

Hi

I am using pySerial to talk to serial ports under Mandrake Linux. Does
anyone know of a way to find the remaining bytecount awaiting transmission
please? I tried getting the size from the file descriptor but with no luck.

Thanks

Colin Brown
PyNZ




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Nov 27 21:53:41 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:53:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: if <assignment>:
In-Reply-To: <as3284$ei6$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211271849480.11020-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 maney at pobox.com wrote:

> Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> > IMO the desire for if-assignment in C is driven in part by a desire
> > to fit more on the screen; Python code is more vertically compact so
> > I don't miss that feature as much.
> 
> On the contrary, the only time the lack of (explicit) assignment in
> expression has bothered me the issue was *horizontal* space.

Can you give an example please?

>  It also sounds as though you could be confusing a desire for concise
> expression with a much sillier objective - at least it seems so entirely
> silly to me that I can't really take it seriously.  Of course it's much
> easier to defeat a silly, contrived argument.  :-/

Sorry, I have no idea what this means.

-Dave




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 15 00:31:54 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:31:54 -0500
Subject: BUG URLLIB2
References: <3DD43DA7.5070004@libero.it>
Message-ID: <fISdnVMRuLQOGEmgXTWcpw@comcast.com>

> Python 2.2.1 (#1, Aug 30 2002, 12:15:30)

If this is an actual bug, it is possible that it has been fixed in
2.2.2, released a month ago.

Since this module is coded in Python, you could extract and use the
newer version if there is one.

TJR




From josiah7 at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 20 20:04:30 2002
From: josiah7 at hotmail.com (Josiah)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 17:04:30 -0800
Subject: Need Function To Run As Long As Button Widget Pressed
Message-ID: <b4d1dd0c.0211201704.1cb336c6@posting.google.com>

I would like for a function to run as long as the button widget is
pressed.
My current approach is to call the function with the button widget,
then the function checks the status of variable to determine if it
should loop. The variable is set by an event binding. Unfortunatly, my
code doesn't work. I am getting this error:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "Runtime\Python\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 764, in __call__
    return apply(self.func, args)
TypeError: too many arguments; expected 1, got 2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heres my code. This should print "working" to the console as long as
the button widget is pressed;

###################################################
from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()

class App:

  def __init__(self, master):  

      frame = Frame(master) 
      frame.grid()

      self.var = IntVar()

      self.buttonGo = Button(frame, text= "Print", command=self.Go)
      self.buttonGo.grid()
   
      self.buttonGo.bind("<Button-1>", self.IsPressed)
      self.buttonGo.bind("<ButtonRelease-1>", self.IsReleased)
      self.buttonGo.bind("<Leave>", self.IsReleased) 

  def Go(self):
      print "Working"
      status = self.var.get()
      if status == 1: 
         self.after(10, self.Go())
   
  def IsPressed(event):
      self.var.set(1)
  
  def IsReleased(event):
      self.var.set(0)
 
app = App(root)
root.mainloop()
root.quit
###################################################

 Doe's anyone see what the problem is? Maybe there is a better way of
doing what I want to do? I couldn't find any examples anywhere.

 Thanks for any help!
josiah


From mike at skew.org  Fri Nov  8 04:06:45 2002
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 02:06:45 -0700
Subject: re.sub() bug?
Message-ID: <3dcb7ea6$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>

Python 2.2.1 on FreeBSD.
These work as expected:

>>> re.sub(u'f', u'b', u'foo')  # keep string as Unicode
u'boo'
>>> re.sub(u'f', u'b', 'foo')   # coerce string to Unicode
u'boo'

But this doesn't work the way I'd think it would:

>>> re.sub(u'f', u'b', u'')     # coerce string to non-Unicode?!
''

So, is this a bug?





From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 24 19:30:22 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 00:30:22 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <m8nmra.tk4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arog76$ed5$0@216.39.172.122> <3lgpra.de5.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <arrquu$jd2$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:22:10 -0800, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Bengt Richter fed this fish to the penguins on Saturday 23 November 
>2002 10:08 am:
>
>> 
>> Fortran has abstractions too, but, e.g., no idea of dictionary per se
>> binding a particular set of names to a particular set of objects.
>
>        No, but then again, "dictionary" is just a name for an implementation. 
Sure, that's why I immediately focused on the abstract aspect of name->object,
and mentioned that you could get the same abstraction from elsewhere.

>For example, a Python dictionary and a REXX "stem variable" are both 
>forms of an abstract construct I know under the term "associative 
>array" (and REXX has a minor advantage too, as you can initialize stems 
>in a way in which a default value applies to all "undefined" keys). 
>REXX stem variables are variables in which the name contains a "."
>Python d["key"] is equal to REXX d."key" (yes, you can quote the part 
>of the variable that follows the "."). FORTRAN does not have 
>associative arrays, but that doesn't stop me from thinking in that 
>concept, leaving the implementation to later... True, for FORTRAN that
OTOH, if you were a programming newbie and had just learned Fortran, Fortran
would not help in making the associative array concept occur to you, whereas
a language with dictionaries or map objects etc would.
>implementation will require coding a bit of a library of routines, 
>but...
I've coded recursive algorithms using 1970's fortran, where all storage was
statically allocated as far as the language and its implementation
at the time was concerned. Fortran didn't give me the recursive concept to work
with (nor to learn, if I had been ignorant of the concept). It didn't stop me,
but no reasonably workable programming language can *stop* you, in theory at least.
Drudgery is a real and practical obstacle though ;-)
>
>        As for where the concept of associative arrays came from... I learned 
>of them NOT from Python or REXX, or from any other language. I learned 
>of them from courses on database internals, language design, etc.
>
I think you are reinforcing my point that the abstractions are the important things.
Python is certainly not an exclusive source of useful abstractions to think with,
but it makes them unusually accessible and fun to use concretely, and that makes it more
likely that a programming newbie will learn them early on.

>> Learning python gives you the abstract notion of name->thing
>> relationships to think with. You can get this notion from in Lisp as
>> well, but in Fortran name->thing relationships are narrowly contrained
>> (for useful purposes) and don't give you the general abstract notion.
>> OTOH, arrays also have abstract counterparts, and Fortran and
>> associated libraries gives you some useful things there.
>>
>        PostScript (yes, that /is/ a programming language) introduces one to 
>similar concerns. "Making" a substring doesn't copy part of the 
I in no way meant to imply that Python was an exclusive source of useful abstract
concepts ;-)

>original string, it just associates the name with part of the original.
>Changing the contents of the substring changes it AND the original 
>string. I learned that one years ago, on my Amiga. I've never had a 
>PostScript printer -- but my favorite Amiga wordprocessors only 
>produced NLQ output by using PostScript (the alternative was "screen 
>dump -- magnifying a 12 pixel character to fill a 24dot printer cell... 
>very ugly rectangular blocks). So I used so-called PostScript 
>compatible interpreter programs to render the pages. Turns out both 
>programs I used (one was discontinued and I had to buy a replacement) 
>did NOT implement the proper substringing behavior. I had to modify the 
>wordprocessor PostScript preamble files to work around that improper 
>behavior by doing string copies rather than subscript assignments.
>
you are presumably referring to getinterval, which operates on arrays or strings?
That's defined to share with the original, AFAIK. Are you saying the program you
fixed made the wrong assumption, or are you saying PostScript should make copies?
That's a change, if that's so now, I think. Is there another operator name that
does that (I wouldn't think they'd want to break backward compatibility with old
level 1 printers)?

>> So I would say "thinking in" a language is thinking in the abstract,
>> but restricting oneself to the abstractions that map easily to
>> representatons in the syntax of the language. The more powerful the
>> language, the less the restriction.
>>
>        Whereas I tend to do the thinking without taking any language into 
>account, using concepts picked up from anywhere if they assist in the 
>analysis of the problem space.
>
That's the pleasant part of having broad experience. But if you totally ignore the
constraints of the language you are about to be forced by circumstance to use,
you may get into expensive work against the grain (not to mention your gag reflex ;-).

If you then reconsider, and think using the subset of abstractions easily implementable
or already available in the language to be used, then I would call this pragmatically
restricted thinking "thinking in" the particular language. Of course languages overlap,
so some common denominator stuff may not suggest that thinking with it is "in" any
particular language.

Also, if you restrict yourself down to the bare minimum common to most languages, you
are probably effectively thinking "in" a poorer language than would actually be available
to you if you read more of the docs for the one you're using.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Wed Nov 13 17:38:28 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:38:28 -0800
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ?
References: <44ee1dc2.0211120501.2c9e3215@posting.google.com> <egorqa.sq3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <44ee1dc2.0211130013.b9e5a30@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <59kuqa.gn3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM fed this fish to the penguins on 
Wednesday 13 November 2002 12:13 am:

> Dear Dennis,
> 
>>         Oh, main thing I notice is that there are no /references/ in
>>         your
>> header, which means that it is considered the start of a thread...
> 
>  would You like to explain a bit more about that /references/ ,
> - what it should be
> - where it should be
> 
> so i can try to ?reply? without breaking the thread ? The ?Post a
> follow-up to this message? in Google did NOT place it, so i assume i
> MUST do it manually...
>
        Well, /this/ message /did/ have references, so it /is/ threaded on my 
reader...

Path: 
mindspring!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <44ee1dc2.0211130013.b9e5a30 at posting.google.com>
From: Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Subject: Re: How do I reply to an item in the list ?
Date: 13 Nov 2002 00:13:07 -0800

References:<44ee1dc2.0211120501.2c9e3215 at posting.google.com> 
<egorqa.sq3.ln at beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Lines: 15
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.190.234.10
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1037175187 18413 127.0.0.1 (13 Nov 2002 
08:13:07 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse at google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Nov 2002 08:13:07 GMT
Xref: beastie.elusive-unicorn.iiss comp.lang.python:10334

        Note the line that says "references:" -- those are the IDs of the 
previous messages in the thread.

        If they still aren't showing up as threaded on Google, there is a 
fault in Google or the means you use to view it with.

        And the sequence shows up threaded in Konqueror... (cut&paste from 
screen, looks ugly here) 

        -=-=-=-=-=-=-


Message 6 in thread From: Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM 
(Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM)
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ? 






 


View this article only Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Date: 2002-11-12 05:01:00 PST 

with Re : in Subject line, with groups.google, it DIDN'T place in the
thread, but as a separate message( new thread, NOT answer In a thread
). Now trying with NO Re : in the subject

Post a follow-up to this message 


 


Message 7 in thread From: Dennis Lee Bieber (wlfraed at ix.netcom.com)
Subject: Re: How do I reply to an item in the list ? 






 


View this article only Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Date: 2002-11-12 18:11:40 PST 

Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 
12 November 2002 05:01 am:

> with Re : in Subject line, with groups.google, it DIDN'T place in the
> thread, but as a separate message( new thread, NOT answer In a thread
> ). Now trying with NO Re : in the subject

        Well, I'd suggest finding a real newsserver, and using a real 
news 
client -- instead of some web based gateway...

        I can't answer for google, I don't use it for anything except 
web 
searches.


-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


Post a follow-up to this message 


 


Message 8 in thread From: Dennis Lee Bieber (wlfraed at ix.netcom.com)
Subject: Re: How do I reply to an item in the list ? 






 


View this article only Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Date: 2002-11-12 18:11:42 PST 

Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 
12 November 2002 05:01 am:

> with Re : in Subject line, with groups.google, it DIDN'T place in the
> thread, but as a separate message( new thread, NOT answer In a thread
> ). Now trying with NO Re : in the subject

        Oh, main thing I notice is that there are no /references/ in 
your 
header, which means that it is considered the start of a thread...

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


Post a follow-up to this message 


 


Message 9 in thread From: Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM 
(Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM)
Subject: Re: How do I reply to an item in the list ? 






 


View this article only Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Date: 2002-11-13 00:13:07 PST 

Dear Dennis,

>         Oh, main thing I notice is that there are no /references/ in 
your 
> header, which means that it is considered the start of a thread...

 would You like to explain a bit more about that /references/ , 
- what it should be
- where it should be

so i can try to ?reply? without breaking the thread ? The ?Post a
follow-up to this message? in Google did NOT place it, so i assume i
MUST do it manually...

TIA,
Patrick Carabin.

Post a follow-up to this message
-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <

        -=-=-=-=-=-=-


From christian.stockhammer at students.uni-linz.ac.at  Sat Nov  9 12:59:28 2002
From: christian.stockhammer at students.uni-linz.ac.at (Christian Stockhammer)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:59:28 +0100
Subject: none - output
Message-ID: <1036864302.150371@news.liwest.at>

Hello List!

I wrote a litte program that will print out the rates of a credit, but i
face some problems. Here is the code:

schuld = 100000.0

zinsfaktor = 5.0

tilgung = 20000.0

def tilgungsplan(schuld, zinsfaktor, tilgung):

print "Periode Restschuld Zinsen Tilgung"

for i in range(0,5):

zinsen = (schuld*zinsfaktor)/100

echtetilgung=tilgung-zinsen

i = i + 1

schuld = schuld - echtetilgung

print i," "," ", schuld," ", zinsen," ", echtetilgung

print tilgungsplan(schuld, zinsfaktor, tilgung)

print "Restzahlung: ", schuld





This produces this output:

Periode Restschuld Zinsen Tilgung

1 85000.0 5000.0 15000.0

2 69250.0 4250.0 15750.0

3 52712.5 3462.5 16537.5

4 35348.125 2635.625 17364.375

5 17115.53125 1767.40625 18232.59375

None

Restzahlung: 100000.0



My problem is that the "None" (I do not know how to avoid this output!) and
the value for "Restzahlung" (how much is still left to pay) is not correct!

May you help me on this on?





From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 12 15:19:52 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:19:52 -0800
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
References: <mailman.1037088856.25697.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8pnrqa.sq3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

David LeBlanc fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 12 November 2002 
12:19 am:

> 
> Which probably marks you just as "live" as opting out. dev/null is the
> place to send trash ;)
> 
        Only if the spammer owns the server and is thereby the postmaster. 
Otherwise it is the ISP that gets the complaint.

        Most of the time what I get is qmail/sendmail reject letters because 
of misconfigured servers (mail loops for postmaster!) and "mailbox 
full".

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Sun Nov 10 08:29:20 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 14:29:20 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqjr09$qbg$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <slrnasr9v1.267f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>
Message-ID: <tyfof8x1rkf.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> writes:

> As cool as Lisp is, it is too low-level,

This must be some usage of the term "low-level" with which I was not
previously familiar.

> The real problem is that, while Python makes a significant effort to
> accomodate human thinking (i.e., Python lets programmers think like
> humans instead of machines a lot of the time), Lisp doesn't put a high
> priority on this.

Funny, I find that Lisp offers me great help in concentrating on what
I want to do, rather than the details of how I am going to make the
machine do it.

> Python uses infix notation for math.  Most humans were brought up to
> understand infix.

So download an infix notation macro ...

> Python is more like C than Lisp at all levels.

?

Would you say that Python is weakly, statically typed, like C, or
strongly, dynamically typed, like Lisp?

How about bindings in Python ... look almost identical to bindings in
Lisp.

Functions are first class objects in Python. Is that similar to C or
Lisp?

Introspection? 

Not having to bother with memory management is yet another example of
how Python is more like C than Lisp "at all levels", right ?

> There are many, many factors that determine the poularity of a
> langauge.  In this case, I think the main factor is that Python just
> thinks more like we do than Lisp.

I would say that the biggst ones (in no particular order) are

- Python is simpler than Lisp. Entry is easier.

- Most people _know_ that Lisp is a slow, arcane language with the
  list as the only data type (and other such lies). Such lies get
  repeated, and as a consequence most people don't bother to give Lisp
  a single look. Python does not suffer from this.

- Batteries included: Python's library of packages is larger and more
  rapidly growing.


Gareth McCaughan <Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com> writes:

> Carl Banks wrote:

> >  The kind of person who writes an infix compiler in Lisp is not the
> >  type of person who's going to be daunted by all the parentheses.
> >  We're talking about the popularity of Lisp, which (as with all
> >  languages) is largely determined by people who are not that kind of
> >  person.
> 
> The person who writes it needn't be the same as the person who
> uses it. There already exist things that let you use infix
> syntax for mathematics in Lisp; you don't have to write them
> for yourself.
> 
> I'm not sure anyone actually *uses* them, mind... :-)

Sure, I do, whenever I have to write involved mathematical
functions. Would never dream of using them for anything else ... just
like I wouldn't dream of writing complex maths in prefix notation.


From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Wed Nov 20 17:55:26 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:55:26 +0100
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
In-Reply-To: <utnsmqsmp20b51@news.supernews.com>; from johnroth@ameritech.net on Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 03:38:50PM -0500
References: <mailman.1037821774.32088.python-list@python.org> <utnsmqsmp20b51@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20021120235526.J11257@prim.han.de>

John Roth wrote:
> "Brian Quinlan" <brian at sweetapp.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1037821774.32088.python-list at python.org...
> > I think that the conceptual problem that people have with assignment
> > being a binding operation is that they are used to names labeling some
> > sort of memory mailbox.
> 
> If you take the word "memory" out of there, that does describe Python.
> I think this is a false distinction. I can find only two issues with
> names:
> 
> One is languages where the name itself has properties (static typed
> languages are a great example of this, although Python is moving
> toward this with the notion of properties in 2.2)
> 
> The other is where there are separate name spaces for certain things.
> For example, methods in Java aren't first class objects, so Java can
> have multiple methods with the same name, and keep them separate.
> Python's name model can't - there can only be one object bound to
> a name at a time (although again, properties seem to violate that rule).

Where do you see "multiple methods" bound to one name?  In fact 
one property object is bound to one name.  Properties are objects 
themselves and they allow you to separately control get/set/del access.  
>From a property object you can get to the three respective functions 
(with the attribute names 'fget','fset','fdel').  Doesn't seem to
blur the lines, does it? 

regards,

    holger



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov 26 13:04:01 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:04:01 -0600
Subject: memory leaks in Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <27E327AB8201B54495D54105FBBBB1485D1320@SRVMSG.GERLAND2.local>
References: <27E327AB8201B54495D54105FBBBB1485D1320@SRVMSG.GERLAND2.local>
Message-ID: <20021126180400.GB7388@unpythonic.net>

I think the term "memory leak" is usually used when something can make
the process use an unbounded amount of memory over multiple iterations.
Here, the amount of memory consumed doesn't continue to grow over
multiple iterations of
    while 1:
        x.delete(1.0, end)
        x.insert(end, s)
        ps()

While the roughly-equivalent tcl script doesn't have quite the same memory
usage, you'll notice that no storage is freed after '.t delete 1.0 end'.
I suspect that this means some internal structure of the text widget
never shrinks when its contents shrink.  Add to that the need to keep a
copy of the Python string converted to TCL, and the memory usage may be
"explained" as a combination of a Tkinter limitation and a Tk
limitation.

Jeff

proc ps {} {
    puts [exec ps u [pid]]
}

text .t
pack .t

set s [string repeat "[string repeat x 72]\n" 40960]
ps   ;# RSS 5520

.t insert end $s
ps   ;# RSS 10240

.t delete 1.0 end
ps   ;# RSS 10248

.t insert end $s
ps   ;# RSS 10248

.t delete 1.0 end
ps   ;# RSS 10248

.t insert end ""
ps   ;# RSS 10248



From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Wed Nov 13 20:14:53 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:14:53 -0800
Subject: geometry problem with Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <aquppv$28g2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
References: <aquppv$28g2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <200211140114.RAA31966@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Wednesday 13 November 2002 16:11, Russell E. Owen wrote:
> I've run into a problem displaying a fairly simple geometry;
> it displays, but goes into an infinite loop trying to grid everything
> [snip]
> Here's a very simplified bit of code that demonstrates the problem 

Works fine for me on Debian linux running python 2.2 and Tk 8.3.

What is your setup?

-- 

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  9 19:04:06 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:04:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to execute a command line in a Python program?
Message-ID: <20021110000406.92508.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey, in my python program, I want to call another
program or command, say, emacs filename&, how to get
to this? I found there's execfile() function in
Python? Do I need to write a shell program which calls
"exec emacs filename&" and then, in my python progam,
use execfile to execute this shell program? Is there
any simple way?

Thanks!

Generally, my python program is like this:
....
write a large number of data to file1
....
want to use emacs or other text editor to view the
content of file1. because the file is so big, it's
inappropriate to print it out
....





=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Nov 17 09:38:26 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 08:38:26 -0600
Subject: python on unix [getting started]
In-Reply-To: <YnGB9.566$Kw6.401397@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> ("dsavitsk"'s
 message of "Sun, 17 Nov 2002 06:08:56 GMT")
References: <YnGB9.566$Kw6.401397@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <m265uwuuql.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "dsavitsk" == dsavitsk  <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> writes:


    dsavitsk> on unix?  perhaps, where is the proper place to look to
    dsavitsk> start learning about this. any books, or websites, or
    dsavitsk> pieces of code to look at?

Check out this sections of the python library reference

Generic Operating System Services -  http://python.org/doc/current/lib/allos.html

and particularly the subsection 'os' where you can read about
os.systems and the popen (process open) commands.  The latter have
their own section
http://python.org/doc/current/lib/os-newstreams.html#os-newstreams

John Hunter



From ajw126NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk  Wed Nov 20 09:39:47 2002
From: ajw126NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:39:47 -0000
Subject: how does import work ?
References: <2259b0e2.0211200633.2ed7e075@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ddb9eb3$0$112$1b0f2dd5@mercury.nildram.co.uk>

It's imported everything in the module f1f2 into a module namespace, it's
then created a link from the namespace where you've imported the module from
to the f1f2 namespace.
When you call f2() you're actually executing it in the namespace for f1f2 so
it has access to everything in that namespace.

HTH,
Andrew Wilkinson

"Michele Simionato" <mis6 at pitt.edu> wrote in message
news:2259b0e2.0211200633.2ed7e075 at posting.google.com...
> Suppose I have a module where two functions f1 and f2 are defined and
> suppose that f2 calls f1 internally. This is an example:
>
> # -- begin module f1f2.py --
>
> def f1():
>     print "Called f1()"
>
> def f2():
>     print "Called f2()"
>     f1()
>
> # -- end module f1f2.py --
>
> Suppose now I import ONLY the function f2, but not f1:
>
> >>> from f1f2 import f2
>
> Then, if I call f2,  I would expect an error since f2 requires f1 but
> I have NOT imported f1. Nevertheless it works:
>
> >>> f2()
> Called f2()
> Called f1()
>
> therefore Python has imported f1 too, but is some hidden way, since
> f1 is not in the current namespace dictionary:
>
> >>> vars()
> {'__builtins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>,
> '__name__': '__main__', 'f2': <function f2 at 0x815779c>,
> '__doc__': None}
>
> This behavior is quite confusing to me, somebody can explain what is
> happening ?
>
> --
> Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
> 210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
> Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
> Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/




From b_mcerlean at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 22 06:12:26 2002
From: b_mcerlean at yahoo.com (Brian McErlean)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 03:12:26 -0800
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org> <3DDB3373.2578CEC0@alcyone.com> <BaGcnQynO5m2VEagXTWc3Q@comcast.com> <3DDC1874.F72E2B35@alcyone.com> <xQWdnY8p3JLag0CgXTWcog@comcast.com> <3DDD556B.3936A6AE@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <f040c4f9.0211220312.5b5f1696@posting.google.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<3DDD556B.3936A6AE at alcyone.com>...
>
> Nitpicking aside, it is easy to turn the simply suggestion I gave into a
> well-defined and easily implementable approach.  You can even do it with
> relatively little change:  As now, stow off a unique instance of each
> default argument as Python already does.  When it comes time to use one
> (i.e., the function is called and one of those arguments is not
> supplied), make a copy (via copy.copy, or copy.deepcopy if you prefer)
> of the default argument and use _that_ instead of the original unique
> object.  Voila, problem solved.

I think this could present problems that are just as bad.  This will
work OK for simple types like lists, but what about instances,
classes, or extension types, some of which currently can't be copied,
many for good reasons (eg Locks).  Just because people can get
confused by the current behaviour doesn't mean they wouldn't by a
different one.

A better way might be to compile the expression and store off the
bytecode, to be executed each function invocation if nothing is bound
to the parameter - sort of an extra, optional, first line to the
function.  This way you're binding to the same object if an existing
object is specified by name (Assuming the globals weren't tampered
with between calls), but still constructing new objects if [], or
MyClass() is in the parameters.  It could still be possible to confuse
people (especially if they're used to/expect the current way), so
perhaps this would still just exchange one set of problems for
another.

> Am I suggesting this be done?  No.  Would it help newbies get over that
> hump that everyone new to Python seems to bump into at least once? 
> Maybe; I don't know.  Is it worth doing now?  No, because the current
> behavior is so well-entrenched, good or bad.

Yeah,  I don't think its possible to change now.  I think maybe the
above way might have been better, though it would cost in performance.
 Easy to say this with 20-20 hindsight of course.


From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov  5 09:03:46 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:03:46 GMT
Subject: List slice assignment and custom sequences
References: <mailman.1036276862.18969.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2k7jsm7u7.fsf@python.net>

Ronald Oussoren <oussoren at cistron.nl> writes:

> No, I want to replace part of a sequence by another sequence. I don't
> understand _why_ the RHS must be a list if the LHS is one. 

Because Objects/listobject.c:list_ass_slice pokes directly into the
object passed on the RHS.

A patch to change this would have some chance of getting accepted;
wouldn't like to guess what, but I'd hazard non-zero.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  All programs evolve until they can send email.      -- Richard Letts
  Except Microsoft Exchange.                                    -- Art
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html


From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  8 17:09:20 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:09:20 -0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <20021108.121940.201305624.9010@cybermesa.com> <uso6sqgn3fmcb0@corp.supernews.com> <20021108.135935.824272813.9010@cybermesa.com>
Message-ID: <usodggtlr7i36@corp.supernews.com>

In article <20021108.135935.824272813.9010 at cybermesa.com>,
Jay O'Connor <joconnor at cybermesa.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>No, I'm making the point that TCL is syntactically weaker at expressing
>complex structures and this is a qualitative difference between the two
>languages
>
>Expanding beyond just getting a single value from a multidimensional list
>is what happens when you start throwing in lrange for slicing and other
>ways of unwrapping the structure.  TCL's approach of using 'functionName
>$var1 var2' leads quite easily and naturally to such 'monstrosities' as a
>natural consequence of the stucture of the language.   When you start
>throwing in heterogenous structures, especially dealing with nested
>arrays (dictionaries) , etc..the syntactical shortcut doesn't scale very
>well to dealing with complex data.  (incidentally, your example does not
>do the same thing.
>
>set l1 "1 2 3"
>set l2 "4 5 6"
>set l3 [list $l1 $l2]
>set x [lindex [lindex $l3 1] 1]
>puts $x
>
>results in '5'
			.
			.
			.
I know a more affirmative way to express my point.
If I were in a Tcl shop, and my colleagues insisted
on expressing matrices in the clumsy way you've 
modeled above, then I would adopt the Lispish (to
connect this back to the subject line) approach,
quite natural in Tcl, of defining a special-purpose
syntax for the purpose.  In this case, by writing
one procedure definition, I can get the Tcl inter-
preter to evaluate all expressions of the form
  puts [x{1,1}]
or
  puts $x{1,1}
(you choose) in the way we'd want.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From dan at cox.com  Tue Nov 26 19:56:58 2002
From: dan at cox.com (Dan)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:56:58 GMT
Subject: *args and **kwargs
Message-ID: <uLUE9.5581$kz4.355569@news2.west.cox.net>

I am still pretty new on Python and have been working with it for 5 months.
I ran across some source code that has these constructs.  They look like C
pointers but most likely aren't.  I can't find explanations to them in
reference books but have only seen them on function declarations in the
sources.  Can anyone give a brief explanation or provide a pointer link to
an explanation?

appreciate it much,
dan




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Wed Nov 20 10:25:15 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 15:25:15 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:

> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> > Another related problem is that Common Lisp doesn't scale well. It is a big
> > and complex language and that's it. While this might be a big productivity win
> > for an experienced developer who can leverage a large collection of well
> > thought out standard functions, it makes it a bad choice for many other
> > scenarios (if you knew neight CL nor python, would you rather have your
> > application scripted in python or CL?).
> 
> 
> Puzzled. "scale well" to me means "what happens when you try to use it for a
> big project" or possibly a small project with big runtime resource
> requirements. CL is great at either, precisely because it can do a lot.


"Scale well" normaly implies up, but what I mainly meant is that CL doesn't
scale down well in a couple of ways. One factor are users: CL is a poor
language for people who don't have, X (say 18) months or so of time to spare
to learn CL (which includes pretty much everyone except people who want to
program professionally in CL or language afficados). This doesn't imply that
you can only use CL productively after learning it for X months, but unless
you plan to spend this overall amount, some other language (python, for
example) is likely to be a better choice.

This initial investment is unlikely to be made even by many professional
programmers who might well profit from using CL, let alone normal users who
just want to customize their applications, or scientists who need to do a bit
of programming to handle their data.

The biggest strength of python, to my mind, is that it scales in a variety of
ways (beginners find it easy, experts find it powerful, you can use it to
script PDAs or to power an application server or to write AI code).

> 
> 
> In your final query, it sounds like you mean can it scale beyond the expert
> few. If so, I think CL is very approachable (easy to get going productively
> very quickly)
 
I really wonder what your basis for thinking CL to be very approachable
is. Specifically, what language(s) do you think would be *less* approachable
to a "normal" person than CL? Even perl, which is hideously complex (unlike CL
which is complex, without being hideous), is more approachable in that you can
do something worthwhile without learning much about Perl (e.g.  perl -npe
's/\bcrap\b/\bsuboptimal\b/' < report.txt > new_report.txt). The only less
approachable (but widely used) language I can think of right now is C++ (which
masterfully combines hideous complexity with being quite low-level).

How about the following criteria for approachability of a language:

1. it should be easy to do conceptually simple and common things
2. it should be easy to do something useful with it
3. it should be easy to read other peoples code
4. it shouldn't have too many surprises in store (e.g. undefined behavior)

I think CL fails on all these criteria, for example:

1. operations on files and directories.
2. try to write something in 1-100 lines in CL that couldn't easier be
   written in e.g. python.
3. just think of how many ways there are to express quite similar
   conditional or looping constructs.
4. try e.g. modifying constant lists or writing a LOOP with undefined
   behavior, or modifying the (string) keys in a hash-table.


> and then one just keeps on learning more and more cool stuff because it is
> so rich.

Well, in python you can also learn new cool stuff till you reached a fairly
high level (e.g. generators and metaclasses), but most of the code you write
will still be quite readable to less clued programmers, because simple things
are invariably expressed in pretty much the same way. So while a newbie might
have problems groking my generator code, most other things should still be
ok. I want to see the CL newbie that understands e.g. the series, dolist, loop
and mapcar etc. version of the same algorithm.


alex


From robloche at fr.st  Sat Nov  2 20:00:22 2002
From: robloche at fr.st (Rodolphe)
Date: 03 Nov 2002 01:00:22 GMT
Subject: Tkinnter questions
References: <3dc45b3d_2@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <Xns92BB14686A4Aroblochefrst@213.228.0.136>

> 1- the window always appears in the upper left corner of my screen -
> how can I make it appear at the center of the screen ?

Hi, just call this function before enter the "mainloop" :

def centerWidget(widget):
    top  = widget.winfo_toplevel()
    sw   = top.winfo_screenwidth()
    sh   = top.winfo_screenheight()
    w    = top.winfo_width()
    h    = top.winfo_height()
    x    = (sw - w)/2
    y    = (sh - h)/2
    geom = '%dx%d+%d+%d' % (w, h, x, y)
    top.geometry(geom)


centerWidget(tkRoot)
tkRoot.mainloop()


From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Thu Nov 28 12:57:53 2002
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:57:53 GMT
Subject: How to get a pointer on Numeric.array
Message-ID: <3de65429.30594203@news.easynews.net>

Hi,
I am using vtk (a C graphic library) 
together with wxPython and Python 2.2
A certain function of vtk expects two arguments,
a pointer on an array of int and a special vtkarraytype.
My problem is the first argument. 
I am using Numeric.array to get a C-like representation
of my lists. But in my example ctarray does not seem to 
be a pointer on this list but something else.

Can anybody help?
Tanks,
marcus


#----snip --------------------
from vtk import *
import Numeric

    list1=[3,2,3,4,3,5,2,8,3,9,1,5]
    enumber=3
    earray=Numeric.array(list1)
    list2=[5,5,5]
    ctarray=Numeric.array(list2,'int')

    grid=vtkUnstructuredGrid()
    IdTArray=vtkIdTypeArray()
    IdTArray.SetVoidArray(earray,enumber,1)
    vtkCArray=vtkCellArray()
    vtkCArray.SetCells(enumber,IdTArray)
    grid.SetCells(ctarray,vtkCArray)
#----snip --------------------


From skip at peterskipworth.com  Tue Nov 26 18:38:26 2002
From: skip at peterskipworth.com (Peter Skipworth)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:38:26 +1100
Subject: Reading MS Excel Files ?
References: <3de2e939$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au> <3DE3D3CF.8090408@omeninternet.com.au>
Message-ID: <3de4063b$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>

Thanks for the replies - neither solution is quite 'clean' enough for me, so
I may have a look at porting the relevant Perl modules to Python at some
point in the near future.


"Jason Friedland" <jason at omeninternet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3DE3D3CF.8090408 at omeninternet.com.au...
> Peter Skipworth wrote:
>
> > Quite a few of the scripts I develop need to be able to parse a
Microsoft
> > Excel spreadsheet - with Perl, this was quite simple, using a module
called
> > Spreadsheet::ParseExcel. Does anything similar exist for Python ?
> >
> > Note that I'm working on a Linux platform and thus need a
non-Win32-centric
> > solution.
>
> Hi Peter
>
> There's a CSV module available from
> http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/
>
> Hopefully that'll help you.
>
> Jason Friedland
>
>
>
>




From grante at visi.com  Sat Nov 23 11:04:31 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 16:04:31 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3DDD711D.2000802@skippinet.com.au> <arl9cs$k6b$0@216.39.172.122> <3dde5012$0$4491$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3dde5e18$0$22192$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <THED9.3061$hg1.6331@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <slrnatv9r8.td7.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <THED9.3061$hg1.6331 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>, Mark Hammond wrote:

> Actually, I don't mind the idea of attaching it to the overlapped object. We
> already have the concept of attaching an object to an overlapped structure,
> so adding support for a generic "flags" 32 bit value wouldn't hurt, and 2
> bytes per Python-allocated overlapped structure wont kill anyone.
> 
> Might be overkill if this is the only case we come across, but it 
> doesn't change any semantics.  ie, the code would look like:
> 
>     rc,mask = WaitCommEvent(handle,overlapped)
>     rc = WaitForSingleObject(overlapped.hevent)
>     whatHappened = overlapped.flags

That would certainly be OK with me.

> Also much easier for me to code ;)

When in doubt, do whatver is simpler.

> Would only work for overlapped objects created via Python, but I think that
> is reasonable.  If a non Python overlapped structure is used, we pass the
> address of a static variable to ensure no one ever crashes.

I don't even know how one could use a non-Python overlapped struct.

> Sound reasonable?

Quite.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I want DUSTIN
                                  at               HOFFMAN!! ... I want
                               visi.com            LIBRACE!! YOW!!


From b.hall at irl.cri.nz  Tue Nov 12 15:52:15 2002
From: b.hall at irl.cri.nz (Blair Hall)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:52:15 +1300
Subject: simple metaclass question
References: <mailman.1037110036.32581.python-list@python.org> <3DD16726.56DD0137@irl.cri.nz>
Message-ID: <3DD169FF.640324DE@irl.cri.nz>

1000 Apologies! I must have done something wrong initially.

Using 'type' does indeed seem to fix the problem.

Thanks



From tpdietz at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  7 15:15:03 2002
From: tpdietz at hotmail.com (Tim Dietz)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 12:15:03 -0800
Subject: Embedded Threading Question
Message-ID: <32355ee1.0211071215.1c26afe7@posting.google.com>

Hi All,

We have an application built using C++Builder 3, which
provides a memo that acts as a python interpreter.  The
dll the app is communication with is python22.dll.  Stdout
is redirected to a different window.  All works quite well.

Now, we are trying to add python modules that act as a TCP
client.  I've provided a read thread that continuously
polls the socket for incoming packets.  When a packet is
detected, it is massaged a bit and then stuffed into a Queue.
There is another thread that is waiting for the Queue to go
not-empty, then grab the data and call a function to process
it.

When I test the module within the Python interpreter from
DOS, it's happy as a clam.  But, the problem is that when I
include the exact same module within the application, the
app hangs forever and I have to kill the process.

How can I find out if the DLL that we're using supports
threads?  If it does, is there anything special I need to
do to get them working fully in my app?

I am using the thread module as the threading module won't
work at all under the application.

Thanks,

Tim


From treworn at NOSPAMgrex.org  Sat Nov  2 11:09:16 2002
From: treworn at NOSPAMgrex.org (News)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 16:09:16 -0000
Subject: loggin out automatically
Message-ID: <1036253358.19897.0@doris.uk.clara.net>

I am considering writing a little program to control the amount of time a
certain user is allowed to access a Linux system i.e. 10 minutes, 1 hour,
etc.

I was wondering if there might be any complications with a line like:

os.system("logout")

Would :
    The python interpreter wait for the call to return and refuse to die so
the call would fail?
    Or: would some other complication I haven't thought of stop this
working?
    Or: would this work fine?
    Or: am I an idiot?
    Or: some combination of the above?

Many thanks for any helpful and / or amusing replies.

Best regards,

M




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 13:52:17 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:52:17 GMT
Subject: accessing SocketServer Handler exceptions
References: <arj9ng$2gr$1@mwrns.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <BX9D9.37917$744.1362137@news1.tin.it>

j vickroy wrote:

> How do I gain access to the exceptions, raised by the handle() procedure
> in a BaseRequestHandler object, from the SocketServer object?

sys.exc_info() should help.


Alex



From teaandbikkie at aol.com  Wed Nov 20 08:50:35 2002
From: teaandbikkie at aol.com (TeaAndBikkie)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 13:50:35 GMT
Subject: python-dev Summary, 2002-11-01 through 2002-11-15
References: <mailman.1037626867.20842.clpa-moderators@python.org>
Message-ID: <20021120085035.28636.00000048@mb-bj.aol.com>

>From: drifty at bigfoot.com  (Brett C.)
>
>Michael Chermside was the only person to respond directly to my
>question as to whether anyone had issue with me injecting my
>personality into the summary.  But he said to go ahead and let me
>personality permeate throughout this thing, so it will.  Let that be a
>lesson to anyone who wanted me to shut up and be drab; had you and a
>friend spoken up this little tirade would not be happening.  =)

I enjoy the style of the summary, thanks. I was even able to understand the
entire summary, which leaves me wondering whether it is due to your clear and
interesting writing style, or my growing knowledge of python :)

>`Getting python-bz2 into 2.3`__
>
>Gustavo Niemeyer asked how he should go about getting his python-bz2_
>module into the standard library.
<[...]
>It was also suggested that he provide a MSVC project file.
>
>That didn't work for Gustavo (who now has CVS write priveleges;
>congrats) since he doesn't use Windows.  This was a slight problem
>because if the extension file doesn't build under Windows it can't be
>included in the PythonLabs Windows distro.  So keep in mind that if
>your module won't directly compile for 6 different versions of Windows
>it won't be included in the Windows distro.

This restriction seems a bit unfriendly... is there any direction to getting
python compilable on/for windows with an open source compiler, eg. gcc, mingw,
etc?

regards, Misha



From zunlatex at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 13 10:56:48 2002
From: zunlatex at hotmail.com (zunbeltz)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 07:56:48 -0800
Subject: os.system and wget
Message-ID: <7d728336.0211130756.3e39a748@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I've download a web in a python script with
os.system('wget -q -O foo.txt http://foo.html')
but later (in same script) i can't open foo.txt
When the script finished the foo.txt is there, correctly donwloaded.

What is wrong?

Thanks in advance

Zunbeltz


From dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk  Sat Nov 23 06:31:42 2002
From: dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 11:31:42 GMT
Subject: rss.py for win32.
Message-ID: <Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP@195.112.4.37>

http://orchard.sourceforge.net/doc/RSS-parser.py

Appears to be *nix only.
Has anyone seen a win32  version please?

TIA DaveP


From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Nov  5 02:31:33 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:31:33 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <3DC77155.83075923@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211051030380.1275-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Benjamin Goldberg wrote:

> Daniel Pfeiffer wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > this morning it struck me that it would be nice to have Parrot not
> > only run Perl 6 and similar byte code, but that any of the common
> > interpreted languages be compiled to this same byte code.

Oh, yes. This is our answer to M$s lacking .NET technologies ;-)
 
> Only just this morning?  I take it that parrot itself only came to your
> attention recently, since that concept has been with the VM since it's
> inception.

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From d_blade8 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 22 13:35:12 2002
From: d_blade8 at hotmail.com (Lemniscate)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 10:35:12 -0800
Subject: Time Problem
Message-ID: <7396d2b2.0211221035.261d9b41@posting.google.com>

Okay, I seem to have an issue with the time.ctime function. 
Specifically, I don't understand the hour entry in the tuple.  It is
supposed to match the hour of the day (in the second example below, it
is in the 10 am hour, so the hour element in the tuple above is 10,
however, using 923611182 as the number of seconds, I get the results
as below.  Why is the time showing up as 15:39???  It should be 22:39,
right?  In fact, this example is taken from Chapter 9 of the Python
Programming  on Win32  book (ch.9, pp 146).  Not only that, but the
picture on 147 shows that the time should be 23:39 on 08/04/99 (which
is NOT what the ctime function returns.  Am I doing something wrong (I
hope not) or is this something with the time module (I hope not even
more).  Please, I need to use this kind of information but I'm not too
sure if it is reliable.  Could somebody tell me what I am doing wrong?
 Thanks a bunch,

Lem

PythonWin 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au)
- see 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> time.ctime(923611182)
'Thu Apr 08 15:39:42 1999'
>>> time.gmtime(923611182)
(1999, 4, 8, 22, 39, 42, 3, 98, 0)
>>> time.localtime()
(2002, 11, 22, 10, 21, 13, 4, 326, 0)
>>> time.ctime()
'Fri Nov 22 10:21:13 2002'


From ajw126NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk  Mon Nov  4 05:55:44 2002
From: ajw126NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 10:55:44 -0000
Subject: Largeint.h
References: <3dc55de7$0$239$1b0f2dd5@mercury.nildram.co.uk> <j4of96fsbg.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3dc65230$0$253$1b0f2dd5@mercury.nildram.co.uk>

Good idea, I don't know why I didn't think using cvs myself!

Thanks,
Andrew

"Martin v. L?wis" <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:j4of96fsbg.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "Andrew Wilkinson" <ajw126NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk> writes:
>
> > Python 2.2.2 doesn't compile under VS.Net because they've removed
> > largeint.h from the Platform SDK, the current workaround is to copy
> > the file from VS6.  I don't have VS6, does anyone know where I can
> > download this file? I'd really like to be able to debug my Python
> > extensions...
>
> You should backport the patch that Mark Hammond has already applied to
> the Python CVS, or use the Python CVS in the first place. You will
> find that one can work-around not having largeint.h.
>
> Regards,
> Martin




From ark at research.att.com  Wed Nov 20 14:55:52 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:55:52 GMT
Subject: Advice for using emacs python-mode
Message-ID: <yu99el9g2eyf.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

I'm writing a program using Emacs and python-mode, and have run into
a few problems.

The first problem is what happens when I type C-c C-c to execute my
program: My editor window splits in half, with the bottom half
becoming the *Python Output* buffer, and the output appears there.

That's all well and good.  However, if I now make a second editor
frame, and display the *Python Output* buffer in that frame, C-c C-c
still splits my editor window and creates a second view into the
*Python Output* buffer.  How do I make it stop?

One way seems to be to type C-c ! to start up a Python interpreter
window.  When I do that, I can put the window where I want and it
stays there.  However, that technique creates a new problem.

My program has gotten big enough that I want to split it into two
source files.  In particular, I've split the test code into a separate
file.  The structure looks like this:

        file foo.py:

            if __name__ == "__main__":
                import footest
                footest.main()

        file footest.py:

            from foo import *

            def main():
                # all the test code goes here

            if __name__ == "__main__":
                main()

This strategy has the desirable property that if I want to use the
code foo.py (which is intended to be a library), I don't have to
import and compile all of the test code.  However, it also has a
problem: It appears that if I change code in foo.py, and type C-c C-c,
that change is not necessarily reflected in the program's execution.
I am guessing that under some circumstances, what is happening is that
the code is not getting re-imported.

So I suspect I'm doing something wrong, but don't know what.  Can
someone on this group advise me?  Here are the properties I'd like:

        1) My library code is in one file; my test code in another.

        2) If I type C-c C-c in the window with the library code,
           it runs the test code on the current version of the library
           code--ideally, even if I haven't explicitly saved the
           revisions since last time.

        3) If I make a window that contains the *Python Output* buffer
           (or whatever), it stays there.

Any suggestions?

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Nov 12 18:27:51 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:27:51 GMT
Subject: os/stat broken under 2.2 / Linux ?
References: <pan.2002.11.13.09.59.28.700966.27058@this.is.my.work.account.com>
Message-ID: <X7gA9.3674$h%5.138357@newsb.telia.net>

Pasiphe's Bull wrote:

> Python 2.2 (#1, Apr 12 2002, 15:29:57)
> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.2 2.96-109)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import stat
> >>> import os
> >>> file_mode = os.stat("./foo")
> >>> if (stat.S_ISDIR(file_mode)):
> ...     print "is dir"
> ... else:
> ...     print "is NOT dir"
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/stat.py", line 46, in S_ISDIR
>     return S_IFMT(mode) == S_IFDIR
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/stat.py", line 30, in S_IFMT
>     return mode & 0170000
> TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for &: 'posix.stat_result' and 'int'
> >>>

os.stat returns a tuple containing the mode and lots of other
stuff, S_ISDIR expects a mode integer and nothing else.

try:

    file_mode = os.stat("./foo")[stat.ST_MODE]
    if stat.S_ISDIR(file_mode):
        ...

or (in 2.2 and later, which returns a tuple with attributes)

    file_mode = os.stat("./foo").st_mode
    if stat.S_ISDIR(file_mode):
        ...

or, easier and more pythonic:

    if os.path.isdir("./foo"):
        ...

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From irmen at NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sat Nov 23 16:24:59 2002
From: irmen at NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 22:24:59 +0100
Subject: Post mortem debugging IDE
In-Reply-To: <3ddfde75$0$11752$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <3ddfde75$0$11752$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <aroo42$ilp$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <3ddff227$0$11740$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Fernando P?rez wrote:

> Irmen de Jong wrote:
>
> >What Python IDE supports post mortem debugging?
>
> Try IPython: http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython/

Thank you, but this is not exactly what I meant. (sorry I was not clear).
IPython is a more of a "text mode IDE".
While it looks very useful indeed, I actually was
interested in graphical IDEs such as Komodo.

What I was looking for is an GUI based IDE with a debugger which has
a variable watch window, a call stack window, source view ofcourse,
and post-mortem capabilities. Komodo seems to have all but post mortem
capabilities. Very strange because a post mortem debugger is part of
Python, right (module pdb)?

Irmen



From theller at python.net  Wed Nov 20 07:38:52 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 13:38:52 +0100
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net> <7h3zns4tpqr.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1y5g2z6r.fsf@python.net>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:
> 
> > 3.  When my extension does something wrong, I see
> > 'Speicherzugriffsfehler' ('access violation' or so) printed on the
> > console.  Why isn't a core dump (for examination) created?
> 
> Possibly because your Linux vendor thinks you're a wet-behind-the-ears
> grandfather who would be scared by a core file.  Try executing
> 
> ulimit -c unlimited
> 
> before running your program.

Yup, works now.

> 
> > Do I have to enable this?  Or is it possible to configure gdb so
> > that it will automatically pop up to examine the program's state?
> 
> If you run your program under gdb (i.e. execute
> 
> $ gdb python
> 
> and type "run") then any signal -- including sig 11 -- will dump you
> into gdb.

Ok, so I'll have to put a 'rawinput()' before the crashing code,
and then press ^C, and set my breakpoints.

Thanks,

Thomas


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 12 16:28:25 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:28:25 -0800
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <20021112164933.A29726@ibook.distro.conectiva> <mailman.1037127257.20801.python-list@python.org> <aqrnpv010t9@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3DD17279.B0F470F1@alcyone.com>

Bryan Richard wrote:

> Stupid question: Is object 135321812 destroyed if I now run
> 
> y += (4, 5, 6)

If that removes the last reference to it, yes.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If a thing is worth doing, then it is worth doing badly.
\__/ G.K. Chesterton
    ZOE / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/zoe/
 A simple Python OpenGL rendering engine.


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 21 17:48:35 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 22:48:35 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <arjns3$rcs$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:03:48 +0100, Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> wrote:

>Michele Simionato wrote:
>
>> It is true that you can read the Python tutorial in couple of hours,
>> "understand" most of it and start immediately programming in Python.
>[...]
>> It takes a much longer time to become to *think* in Python. I started 
>> six months ago and I am still in the process of adapting my way of 
>> thinking to the language. This is much harder than adapting the language 
>> to your way of thinking. But eventually you must do it if you really 
>> want to understand the language.
I think that is an insightful observation.

>
>Could you try to describe what it means to you to think in Python? What 
>makes it different from thinking in other languages? (This is not a 
>rhetorical question!)
>
(Please pardon my jumping in with my view. I realize you didn't ask me ;-)

To me, it's similar to the kind of shift in mental gears that you do
with natural languages. E.g., if you lived in one country for long
enough to become fairly fluent, and then went to another for a decade
or two and became fluent there. Then going back for a visit, you will
at first be thinking in your most recent language, but with a little time
"nicht hinauslehnen" will lead the imagination to the image without detour via
"ne pas se pencher au dehors" or whatever (I may have misremembered ;-).

Thus ISTM the key is in the imagination, and what images and abstractions live
there. The tokens and token arrangements of a particular language are not
the essence. Thinking in a language is imagining with the imaginary entities
associated with the language, not talking to yourself with the audible or
visible tokens of non-imagined representation. After the imagination follows
the expression, when you are thinking. When learning, imagination is
led to new experience by expressions.

Since entities and patterns of common usage are not identical between
languages, ISTM thinking is not identical either, though one assumes that
the process is played out with similar props and stage machinery.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From joel.quinet at be.unisys.com  Wed Nov 13 09:05:47 2002
From: joel.quinet at be.unisys.com (Quinet, Joel)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:05:47 -0600
Subject: Unit testing - Using Java Mock Objects in Python?
Message-ID: <8D7B1A876CBBD2119E6A00105AC57EF005CBB7A0@BE-BRU-EXCH-1>

Hi,

Has anybody already tried to re-use or port the Java implementation 
of Mock ojects (available on www.mockobjects.com) to Python?

Is it possible to combine the Java Mock objects with Python using Jython?

It would be great to have available the Java Mock classes available to 
be used from Python.

Thanks
Joel



From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Mon Nov 25 23:30:16 2002
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:30:16 +0800
Subject: if <assignment>:
Message-ID: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F01BCB1@mexper1.maptek.net.au>

In article <kps5uugnftv0jk2c23sm8v96gcv9l3n2kc at 4ax.com>, Courageous
wrote:
>>>David Brown <david at no.westcontrol.spam.com> wrote:

>>>> correctness.  This particular "feature" is a huge source of bugs
and 
>>>> frustration in C programming - mixing up "=" and "==" in conditions

>>>> is probably the biggest single cause of C program bugs.  Python, on

>>>> the other
>>>
>>>Are you speaking from experience,...
>> 
>> In my own personal experience, the most common typo I make in C like 
>> languages is the =/== error. I'm lucky enough to generally see this 
>> error before I send it to the compiler and fool myself into thinking 
>> the code is good.

>Gcc is pretty good about warning the user when that happens.  At least
it 
>seems to catch it most of the times when I do it -- but it's still not 
>100%.

I remember in my TurboC++ 2.0 days, the compiler would spit out 
'Ambiguous assignment' or something like that anyway. I always found the
construct if(x = func()) rather confusing, and *never* used it, even
though
it was available and acceptable to do so.

Sw.



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Nov  6 09:54:45 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 15:54:45 +0100
Subject: Guilty secret: globals baffle me
References: <3U9y9.19300$ko1.2872530@kent.svc.tds.net>
Message-ID: <j4r8dy3g0a.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Edward K. Ream" <edream at tds.net> writes:

> 1. How many globals are there?  Is there just one, or does each module
> define its own?

Each module has its own set of globals. There is only one set of truly
global names, which are the builtin names (to which you can also add,
but that is considered a hack).

> only works if the two parts are within the same module, so I think maybe
> globals() returns module specific stuff, but then why call it globals?

Because it is not local :-) It's more a distinction of lifetime, then
of visibility. Local variables life for the duration of the function;
globals live across arbitrary function calls, starting with the module
import (or first assignment) until the interpreter end (or del
statement).

You can share globals across modules by means of import. If you want
to assign to the global, make sure you don't use from-import, but
import the module, then assign via module.globalname = value.

Regards,
Martin


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Fri Nov 22 17:47:54 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:47:54 +0100
Subject: Python and gd library
In-Reply-To: <HrvD9.42612$744.1519497@news1.tin.it>
References: <HrvD9.42612$744.1519497@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <20021122224754.GA621@lilith.ghaering.test>

* Antonio.P <antonio.p at libero.it> [2002-11-22 19:20 +0000]:
> Hi to all
> Is there some integration in Python of the GD graphics library?
> http://www.boutell.com/gd/

This question is easily answered by using a search engine:

http://www.google.com/search?q=python+gd

-- Gerhard



From nospam at bigfoot.com  Tue Nov  5 10:30:17 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:30:17 +0100
Subject: Encoding of String
References: <aq67lr$6fj$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <aq8n7s$28ql$1@norfair.nerim.net>

"Thomas Guettler" <zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de> a ?crit dans le message
de news: aq67lr$6fj$06$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Hi!
>
> Is there a way to get the encoding of a string?
>
> Suppose I do:
>
> mystring="blu"
> ustring=unicode(mystring, "utf-8")
>
> later I want to know which encoding ustring has:
> ustring.getEcoding() --> "utf-8"
>
> Is there something like "getEcoding()"?
>
>   thomas
>
>

AFAIK strings (8 bits) don't have any encoding attribute.
Unicode strings are always ISO 10646.
You may get your system's default encoding (the way you should do your 8bit
string I/O) using :

import locale
defaultEncoding = locale.getdefaultlocale()[1]

-> "cp1252" on my Windoz box
-> "iso8859-1" on my FreeBSD box

As I said, it "may" work if the default encoding is properly set, systemwide
or in your user preferences.

--Gilles





From paul at boddie.net  Mon Nov 18 05:29:23 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 02:29:23 -0800
Subject: python on unix [getting started]
References: <YnGB9.566$Kw6.401397@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <m34ragk3ts.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <POQB9.636$Kw6.474127@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0211180229.67f7c260@posting.google.com>

"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message news:<POQB9.636$Kw6.474127 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>...
> "Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
> news:m34ragk3ts.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> 
> Thanks for the response
> 
> > > In particular, I would like to control mpg123 (i think?).
> >
> > Depends on what precisely "this" is. In general, on Unix, there is
> > nothing like COM. So when you want to use some functionality written
> > by somebody else, you have two options:

This depends a lot on the environment you have available. Both KDE and
GNOME provide their own object model, and it's certainly possible to
control applications using DCOP in KDE, provided that such
applications expose some kind of "automation" interface.

> So perhaps the question is, how does one write a wrapper for using a library
> with python? (I see there is a xmms wrapper, but I don't have X installed,
> so I assume that that is not an option) again, on win32, it is simple enough
> to use either windll or even vb to declare non-COM functions and write COM
> wrappers to them.  Where would I look to do this on unix?

If you really want to use a COM-style automation interface, then the
easiest thing might be to check the documentation for the various
players to see what facilities they provide. On KDE, you might want to
check the Noatun documentation, and then look up DCOP in your manuals.

[...]

> > Most likely, mpg123 is available on your system as well.
> 
> Indeed as I installed it last night :)

One thing to note for readers of this thread is that mpg123 may not
necessarily be available on various recent Linux distributions due to
the patent uncertainties around MP3 software. Still, there's always
ogg123 for those of us who are using Ogg Vorbis instead, and
controlling that player using os.system (as others have proposed)
should be reasonably straightforward, especially since it responds to
various UNIX signals, too.

Paul


From syver at osiris.no  Thu Nov 21 10:16:36 2002
From: syver at osiris.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 16:16:36 +0100
Subject: Advice for using emacs python-mode
References: <yu99el9g2eyf.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <uisyrq5eq.fsf@online.no> <yu9965ur3ncv.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <u7kf7neaz.fsf@osiris.no>

Andrew Koenig <ark at research.att.com> writes:

> Syver> Hope this helps.
> 
> Indeed -- thanks!
> 
> Maybe I should just use Idle instead :-)

You do as you please of course, but for me Emacs is the way to go, it
even has pymacs which let's you script emacs in python.


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Thu Nov  7 10:02:04 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:02:04 +0100
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk> <aqajfv$qqr$1@news.netpower.no> <918bc22f.0211060732.47b2198d@posting.google.com> <aqbifg$6qd$1@news.hccnet.nl> <918bc22f.0211061829.2d94e681@posting.google.com> <aqco2l$q2f$0@216.39.172.122> <aqdc1t$plg$1@news.netpower.no> <aqdpmv$lv1$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <aqdv9a$2ca$1@news.netpower.no>

"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote in message
news:aqdpmv$lv1$1 at news.hccnet.nl...
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:33:51 +0100, "David Brown"
> <david at no.westcontrol.spam.com> wrote:
>
> >Have you considered whether Python is really a suitable language for this
> >job?  It is probably ideal for your first project, but not necessarily
for
> >the second one.  Python makes it easy to write great software, but it
also
> >makes it easy to make mistakes which can only be found at run-time.  You
> >might want to consider writing the key working parts of the software in a
> >language designed with safety and reliability in mind, such as Ada (not
C!),
> >while using Python for the secondary work (user interface, logging
results,
> >or whatever).
>
> This thread is filled with reverse psychology! First the idea is
> proposed to use the GPL because it's in the best interest of the
> babys, which is doubtfull. Then it amounts to using lawyers to protect
> the interests the authors of the sourcode, which would certainly
> damage the interests of the babys. Now it reaches a state where using
> a "safe and reliable" language is proposed instead of using python,
> which is comparabale to throwing away the babys and keeping only the
> bathing water.
>

The author thinks the GPL is in the best interest of the babies, because it
will let other doctors freely use the program, and will ensure that any
improvements to the program will benifit all users.  The lawyers are
involved to protect the author from other lawyers, so that he can go on
writing and using this code for the benifit of the babies.

As for the safety of the language, it all depends on what the system is
doing.  Judging from other posts, it looks like it will be a calculation aid
rather than directly controlling something, so there are additional human
checks along the line.  Python makes it quick and easy to write code, but if
you are controlling something this important directly, then you want a
language that will give you the best help in getting correct code, and that
means using a strongly-typed language - in addition to Python for the
non-critical parts.

> Please stop trying not to start a flame war.

Meaning please start one?

>
> AV.




From ken at perfect-image.com  Tue Nov 12 10:39:11 2002
From: ken at perfect-image.com (Ken Godee)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:39:11 -0700
Subject: newbie Q: shortcuts for long module names?
In-Reply-To: <slrnat1766.n37.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3DD0BE2D.24161.64B468@localhost>

Couldn't you also.....

from this.is.a.long.module.name import *

Calling a top level attribute from the module couldn't
get any shorter than that.

this.is.a.long.module.name.dothis()

vs

dothis()


> Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2002-11-11 at 21:34, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> >> Try
> >> 
> >> 	import this.is.a.long.module.name as name
> >> 
> >> or
> >> 
> >> 	import this.is.a.long.module.name as somethingElse
> > 
> > or
> >   from this.is.a.deep.package import name
> 
> You could even do:
> 
>     from this.is.a.deep.package import name as someOtherName
> 
> if you want to.




From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Nov  6 14:47:07 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:47:07 -0500
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in
 Python 2.4 and up
In-Reply-To: <slrnasiph8.pma.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEDDCHAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Jon Ribbens]
> My jonpy modules are producing the following warning when compiled
> under Python 2.3 (current cvs):
>
>   FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive
>   values in Python 2.4 and up
>
> The offending line of code is as follows:
>
>   data = struct.pack("!I", len(nameval[0]) | 0x80000000)
>
> As far as I can tell, this change, when it comes in, will make no
> difference at all to the way this code works. Am I right?

Probably, because the ultimate consumer of the computed value is a pack
format using a platform-independent definition of "I".  Without the leading
"!" in the format, though, you get a platform-dependent pack, and 0x80000000
doesn't mean the same thing across all platforms today (but will starting in
Python 2.4).

> What am I supposed to do to make the warning go away? Rewrite 0x80000000
> as 0x40000000 * 2 ? ;-)

Write it in a platform-independent way.  If you *intended* this literal to
mean "a 1 bit followed by 31 zero bits", then stick an L on the end of the
literal.




From jorgencederberg at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  4 08:54:30 2002
From: jorgencederberg at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Cederberg?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:54:30 +0100
Subject: Tkinter File Dialog Question
References: <6747bc9d.0211021953.4fd02462@posting.google.com> <l7px9.9$pU4.435@news.get2net.dk> <6747bc9d.0211040501.2e8000b5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <q_ux9.367$pU4.1276@news.get2net.dk>

"Steve Zatz" <slzatz at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:6747bc9d.0211040501.2e8000b5 at posting.google.com...
> Jorgen,
> 
> Thanks much for the response.  I wasn't aware that there was a
> defaultextension option.  Unfortunately, it doesn't quite solve my
> problem.  I am providing the users with several extension options (eg
> xml, txt) and they are selecting one of those options and then
> (understandably) creating a file name without an extension assuming
> that it will pick up the extension they have selected.  However, I
> don't see any way to get at their extension selection since the Dialog
> only seems to return the filename they input.

Hi Steve,

I don't think that the dialog returns anything but the complete filename. So assuming that you get the complete filename, i.e. 'myfilename.xml', you could just split the name at the '.' to get the extension. 

>>> filename = 'myfilename.xml'
>>> extension = filename.split('.')[-1]
>>> extension
'xml'

Regards
Jorgen





> 
> 
> 
> > you can use the option: 'defaultextension'. Example
> > 
> > >>> import tkFileDialog
> > >>> res = tkFileDialog.asksaveasfilename(defaultextension=".txt")
> >  (user types in "myfilename")
> > >>> res
> > 'myfilename.txt'
> > 
> > Remember the dot in the extension string. I just tried and it works, 
> > unless the user selects a filename that already exist.
> > 
> > Regards
> > Jorgen Cederberg


From Padraig at Linux.ie  Mon Nov 18 05:40:52 2002
From: Padraig at Linux.ie (Padraig Brady)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:40:52 GMT
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3DD8C332.6020709@Linux.ie>

Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> What's the most efficient way to merge two lists inside a single one 
> with the resulting list having only one instance of each element (ie not 
> having two elements with the same value)?
> 
> The order of the elements is not a criteria for the selection of the 
> algorithm.

This is relevant I think:
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0218.html

P?draig.



From tundra at tundraware.com  Sat Nov  9 12:40:11 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 17:40:11 GMT
Subject: Determining Presence Of GUI Support
References: <42aiqa.jp82.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <aL2z9.8372$Bs5.285294@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <vpgjqa.l7h2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> 
> 
>>Is there a portable method of determining whether the current runtime
>>environment supports a GUI or text-based interface?  I would like to
>>write a single program which autosenses the presentation environment
>>and works accordingly.
> 
> 
> Well, you could do something like:
> 
> try:
>     import tkinter    # or whatever other GUI toolkit you want
> except:
>     # set things for no-GUI
> else:
>     # set things for yes-GUI
> 
> but that depends on what you mean by "support" -- it's conceivable
> that tkinter might load but then not be able to display anything
> because for example X11 isn't started (a rather platform-specific
> issue), or because it's started with parameters inappropriate to
> the display so the display is actually showing just a jumble of
> color streaks (more and more platform-specific), and so on.
> 
> 
> Alex
> 

Well, the inability of X to init properly is not really the issue I am
trying to handle. There is probably no reasonable way to consider every
possible permutation of what might fail.

I was thinking more of the problem of trying to determine whether I
should use textual output or invoke some GUI presentation. I guess the
best I could do would be to figure out whether I am in xterm, character
term (vt100...), or Win32 environment (and whatever a Mac returns for
$TERM) and use that as the determining factor.  This is also imperfect
in that a number of textual terminal programs like puTTY set their
type as 'xterm' even though they are not actually graphical interfaces.
Another option, I suppose, would be to provide a command line interface
option to force the mode of choice.

Years ago, in the transition from MS-DOS to Windows, there used to be
a way to lay a DOS binary into the Windows executable file.  That way,
a single file worked for either environment.  This, by analogy, is
what I wanted to accomplish.


Thanks to you and all the others who responded...


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From ark at research.att.com  Wed Nov 20 22:55:42 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:55:42 GMT
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
References: <mailman.1037836236.12644.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yu99fztvy3sx.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Brian> No it doesn't. In C or Java, when you write:

Brian> int a = 5;

Brian> you are, conceptually, saying: stick a 5 in the "a" mailbox.

Brian> In Python, when you write:

Brian> a = 5

Brian> you are, conceptually, saying: 5 is in a mailbox somewhere, make "a"
Brian> know the address of that mailbox. I wouldn't use the mailbox analogy
Brian> with Python though.

The truth is rather more subtle.  For example, you can't write a
Java program to prove your claim, because integers are immutable.
Therefore, there's no way to distinguish between what you say is the
Java treatment and the Python treatment.

In Java, if you replace "int" by a class type, the behavior matches
Python's behavior.  Is that a change or not?  No way to know for sure.


-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From bloke at ii.net  Tue Nov  5 20:06:16 2002
From: bloke at ii.net (Rob Hall)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:06:16 +0800
Subject: pyqt table
References: <3dc7f35b$0$11674@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <3DC82F93.9090603@SPAMnwinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3dc86aad$0$12992@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

Thanks.  I'll giv it a go.

R




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Tue Nov 12 18:30:23 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:30:23 +0000
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <aqrka3$1emk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <3DD172DA.3CE01328@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <vj33tushrei5j56sjdo11l4u63gphm166n@4ax.com>

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:30:02 -0800, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>"Russell E. Owen" wrote:
>
>> The default value of alist will not stay [] (an empty list) but
>> instead
>> is affected by whatever you pass in for "alist". Very tricky and
>> unpleasant.
>> 
>> Here's my usual solution:
>> def okfunc(alist=None):
>>    alist = alist or []
>
>If you're using None as a sentinel value, it's probably better to test
>for None-ness (via alist is None) rather than test for truth, since many
>things can be false which are not None.
>
>It's unlikely that in this particular example it would pose a problem,
>but in the more general case it could.  The idiom _I_ use is:
>
>	def f(l=None):
>	    if l is None:
>	        l = []
>	    ...

And when I want to use None *also* as viable input I use something like

DEFAULTARG = []

def f(l = DEFAULTARG):
    if l is DEFAULTARG:
        <whatever>

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov  9 14:00:21 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 19:00:21 GMT
Subject: indexed looping, functional replacement?
References: <3fe406f0.0211091037.2795e538@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9Xcz9.15450$XO.672555@news2.tin.it>

Brian O. Bush wrote:

> I currently have a list of functions and a list of arguments to the
> functions (n to n). Is there a way I can get around having to keep an
> index into the arguments as I loop through the functions. Below is my
> imperative approach:
> 
> def f1(str):
>     print "f1:", str
> def f2(str):
>     print "f2:", str
> def f3(str):
>     print "f3:", str
> 
> str = ["bbb", "sdf", "sdw"]
> fn = [f1, f2, f3]
> 
> i = 0
> for f in fn:
>     f(str[i])
>     i = i + 1
> 
> I would like a simpler approach to avoid having to manually maintain
> an index, maybe functional if possible.

In Python 2.3, the enumerate built-in will do just that:

[alex at lancelot alf]$ python2.3
Python 2.3a0 (#4, Nov  6 2002, 09:18:17)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> for x in enumerate('ciao'): print x
...
(0, 'c')
(1, 'i')
(2, 'a')
(3, 'o')
>>>

In Python 2.2, you can try various inferior alternatives, e.g.:

for f, i in zip(fn, range(len(fn))):
    f(str(i))


Alex



From bdesth at nospam.free.fr  Sun Nov 17 03:51:10 2002
From: bdesth at nospam.free.fr (laotseu)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 03:51:10 -0500
Subject: My Python Editor "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE" does
 not refesh
References: <mailman.1037422524.22358.python-list@python.org> <utcha6tcots2ce@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3DD7587E.40607@nospam.free.fr>

John Roth wrote:
> "kathik thyagarajan" <karthik_qmax at yahoo.co.in> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1037422524.22358.python-list at python.org...
> 
> Hi Guys,
> I am having the trouble of having to exit the editor every time I make
> some changes to my code in order to execute the code using the
> "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE"  editor. DOS work fine but the
> problem with DOS is that and other editors like gvim is that I am unable
> to debug my code with them. Is there any problem with theinstallation or
> is there any other patch to be added? Does any one know. Other wise I
> have to clos a bunch of files, open them, set break points, make
> changes, close them again and keep iterating the whole thing.
> 
> Eagerly awaiting replies.
> 
> Karthik
> 
> Does that for me, too. I suspect you may have to explicitly refresh a
> new module, but I haven't bothered figuring out how because I tend to do
> XP style test first and have never bothered with the debugger.
> 
> I just keep a DOS window open and have a little script that runs the
> test module. A couple of clicks, five keystrokes and I know whether the
> last change worked or not.
> 
> John Roth
> 
> 

<troll>
   the One True Answer lies in two (2) words : Use Emacs
</troll>

Laotseu
--
Ye Old Master Said :
"Use Emacs"
--



From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov 13 08:37:50 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:37:50 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7h3smy5zj8k.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> writes:

> Martin Maney wrote:
> > I'd love to "get" why some form of assignment on the fly is so evil that we
> > have to invent hacks to work around its lack over and over again (recipie
> > 1.9 in the Cookbook).  The lack interacts especially badly with a language
> > where indentation is a mandantory part of the control structure.  :-(
> 
> Well, I highly disagree that changing assignment semantics is the
> solution to this, for three reasons.  First, I have a general distaste
> for anything that returns a value and has side effects.  Second, it
> leads to all kinds of unreadability in the code by people abusing it.
> Third, it is an incomplete solution.
> 
> The idiom you speak of is common enough.
> 
> do_A()
> if test_based_on_A():
>     take_action_A()
> else:
>     do_B()
>     if test_based_on_B():
>         take_action_B()
>     else:
>         do_C()
>         if test_based_in_C():
>             take_action_C()
>         else:
>             ...

*This* is asking to be written as a loop:

for (prelim, test, action) in [(do_A, test_based_on_A, take_action_A),
                               (do_B, test_based_on_B, take_action_B),
                               (do_C, test_based_on_C, take_action_C)]:
    prelim()
    if test():
       action()
       break
else:
    whatever()

I often find that it's possible to wrap up fairly complicated control
flows like this in a neat way, but often it takes a bit of staring to
come up with it.  Isn't there a pithy quote along the lines of
"constraints spark creativity"?

[...]
> And, getting this back to the topic, you could do this if Python had
> macros.  But I agree with Alex here; Python isn't the language for
> that.  That's why we have Lisp.  Having the occasional useful syntax
> not available (tryexcept anyone? conditional operator?) is a price
> you pay sometimes.

The only biggy for me is the lack of Lisp style (with-... ) macros;
which of these do you prefer:

def 

-- 
3. Syntactic sugar causes cancer of the semicolon.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Nov 10 10:18:00 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:18:00 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqltkt$14s$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:26:22 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>
wrote:

>Did you know that s-exps (i.e. the paren heavy Lisp we know today) was
>intended to be a temporary syntax, and that John McCarthy intended to
>develop a more familiar syntax for Lisp?  Somehow he never did --
>maybe because it turned out to be a bad idea?

That option seems to be available only to people having access to time
machines. 

Wouldn't it be possible to  write a macro for Lisp so that it uses
newlines and indentation instead of parens?

I know almost all computer languages are indebted heavily to Lisp and
it still has a lot more to give, but maybe it could accept something
back? 

Like having Python "repay the debt"?. (A kind of expression used by
go-players at the time one wins for the first time against the player
that has teached one the game).

>> As a consequence we can use a more human like language to communicate
>> with the computer.
>
>With all the ambiguities that make human languages such fun?  Shudder.

Python's way of checking for protocols instead of checking for types,
and handling protocol errors graciously at runtime can be seen -with a
bit of imagination- as leaving a lot of ambiguity in interpreting the
source code. 

If I read it correctly psyco even goes a step further in generating
multiple possible execution paths and choosing the fastest path that
doesn't break assumptions. If that's not what Psyco does: Some
processors use a trick like this.

If one insists on early fixation of names to specific types of objects
this may seem to disqualify Python as it would not be "safe and
reliable". 

On the other hand for someone that is looking for readable code and
generalizing kinds of operations on objects, the added transparency of
the code can compensate for the loss in "safety and reliability" and
then some! Checking algorithm's instead of syntax introduces
"ambiguity" but its worth the price.

Probably you already know all this, and if my speculations or
formulations - ambiguities are assets that are not politically correct
- are too far off the mark I trust that they will be corrected,

Regards,

		Anton.


From ferrell at diablotech.com  Fri Nov 15 14:54:40 2002
From: ferrell at diablotech.com (Robert Ferrell)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 11:54:40 -0800
Subject: __slots__ and metaclasses
References: <73b00f0c.0211141124.1540cc98@posting.google.com> <NyTA9.13660$Yw.563200@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <73b00f0c.0211151154.70a95bfe@posting.google.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<NyTA9.13660$Yw.563200 at news2.tin.it>...
> Robert Ferrell wrote:
> 
> > How can I set the __slots__ attribute for a class in the classes
> > metaclass?  I tried adding:
> > 
> >     setattr(cls, '__slots__', __slots__)
> > 
> > to the __init__ method in the metaclass, but that did not work.  Is
> > what I'm trying to do even possible?  I've read what I could find
> > about metaclasses and __slots__, and I've mostly got the metaclasses
> > working for me.  But I'm stuck on this one point.  Any help/pointers
> 
> See, for example:
> 
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=0qZV8.51942%24vm5.1927874%40news2.tin.it
> 

Thanks for the pointer.  That did the trick, and it even works for me!
 Sweet.

So much more for me to learn about the meaning of "__" prefix, what
goes on in __new__ vs. __init__, etc...

-robert


From imbosol at vt.edu  Fri Nov  8 19:53:45 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:53:45 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Oleg wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
> between Python and Common Lisp (
> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?


As cool as Lisp is, it is too low-level, too hard to learn, too
weird-looking, and way too different from C (at all levels) to gain
much popularity.

The real problem is that, while Python makes a significant effort to
accomodate human thinking (i.e., Python lets programmers think like
humans instead of machines a lot of the time), Lisp doesn't put a high
priority on this.  If programming in assembly language is "thinking
like the processor," then programming in Lisp is "thinking like the
compiler."

Examples of way Python accomodates human thinking more than Lisp:

Python represents logical nesting the same way human read it, by
indentation.  Lisp repesents all nesting with parentheses, which is
not too different from how humans think if the nesting is not too deep
(and, indeed, Python does use parentheses for nesting expressions).
But when the nesting levels get more than three or so deep, everyone
who isn't Rain Man loses track and has to count parentheses to parse
it.

Python uses infix notation for math.  Most humans were brought up to
understand infix.

Python controls evaluation completely, whereas Lisp gives programmers
control of evaluation.  Humans don't like to think about when
something will be evaluated, and a lot of Python programmers aren't
even aware of the significance of evaluation time.  The reason Python
programmers often don't have to think about it is most of the time
it's intuitive.  When a programmer sees a for loop, he or she knows
the statements will be evaluated intuitively, without having having to
explicitly think about evaluation time.  In most other cases, the
programmer expects things evaluated immediately.  Python accomodates
the human thinker by doing what the human thinker expects (most of the
time--there are always tricky cases like default arguments).  Lisp, by
giving control of evaluation to the programmer, forces the programmer
to think about evaluation time rather than intuit it.

Python is more like C than Lisp at all levels.  One aspect of human
thinking is that humans can learn new ways to think.  Another aspect
of human thinking is that many humans don't like to learn new ways to
think.  Most programmers are taught C; and in learning C they learned
a certain way to think.  Many programmers realize the limitations of C
and seek a more dynamic language.  Python and Lisp will both do, but
Python, requiring less of a change in thinking, is going to be chosen
more.


There are many, many factors that determine the poularity of a
langauge.  In this case, I think the main factor is that Python just
thinks more like we do than Lisp.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From paul.rudin at ntlworld.com  Mon Nov 11 13:29:13 2002
From: paul.rudin at ntlworld.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 18:29:13 +0000
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037014155.15486.python-list@python.org> <uel9sryab.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037025979.11547.python-list@python.org> <u4raorv6r.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037031266.12200.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m34raoneo6.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

>>>>> "holger" == holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:



 holger>  Is there an obvious killer use case?  IOW can you
 holger> state a problem where the use of a ternary operator comes in
 holger> really handy?  Sorry if this sounds dumb to you but i am interested.

I'm not sure it's that big a deal, but looking back over some of the
bits and pieces I wrote over the weekend there are a number of code
fragments that follow this kind of pattern:

def foo(x,y,...):
    acc=func1(x,y....)
    if some_test:
       acc = acc+func2(x,y...)
    else:
       acc = acc+func3(x,y...)
    return acc

Personally I'd  prefer to be able to write something like:

def foo(x,y,....):
   return func1(x,y,..) + 
          if some_test:
              func2(x,y...) 
          else:
              func3(x,y..)


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov  7 01:51:42 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 06:51:42 GMT
Subject: how to write this re?
References: <mailman.1036646108.30306.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqd2hu$e5u$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:14:10 -0800 (PST), Mindy <csshi99 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Hey, I want to find strings which includes "string1"
>but not includes "string2" in a bunch of strings
>called "lines", how can I write this regular
>expression in Python?
>For "axystring1bdestring2lkj",
>"aaastring1bbbccc","aaabbbstring2poi","aaabbbcccddd" I
>only want to get the string "aaastring1bbbccc" but my
>program got two strings: "axystring1bdestring2lkj" and
>"aaastring1bbbccc". So in my regular expression,
>(?!string2) didn't work at all. I know I shouldn't
>write this,but I really don't know how to express "not
>including string2".
>
>My regular expression is like:
>r=re.search(r'(.*)string1(.*)(?!string2)(.*)',lines)
>if r:
>	string1 = r.string
>
 >>> sl= ["axystring1bdestring2lkj","aaastring1bbbccc","aaabbbstring2poi","aaabbbcccddd"]
 >>> import re
 >>> rx = re.compile(r'^.*string2.*$|(^.*string1.*$)')
 >>> for s in sl:
 ...     m = rx.search(s)
 ...     if m: m = m.group(1)
 ...     if m is not None: print m
 ...
 aaastring1bbbccc

I.e., this specifies a greedy match to what you want to exclude first and outside the group parens,
and puts in the group parens what you want to find and keep. Anything else matches neither.

Or if your strings were in a file, so you could have done

    file_text = file('the_file').read()

which we'll simulate using the above data by

 >>> file_text ='\n'.join(sl+[''])
 >>> file_text
 'axystring1bdestring2lkj\naaastring1bbbccc\naaabbbstring2poi\naaabbbcccddd\n'

then
 >>> rx = re.compile(r'^.*string2.*$|(^.*string1.*$)', re.MULTILINE)
 >>> filter(None, rx.findall(file_text))
 ['aaastring1bbbccc']

should give you the list of lines, unless I forgot something ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 22 09:08:08 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:08:08 GMT
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3DDD556B.3936A6AE@alcyone.com> <f040c4f9.0211220312.5b5f1696@posting.google.com> <3DDE1CB7.96BE164@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <cTqD9.57520$Yw.2605301@news2.tin.it>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
   ...
> think, where such a system (namely where the objects are stowed in the
> function and then are copied each time they're needed when a default
> argument is needed) would have unexpected or undesired behavior.  For
   ...
>> A better way might be to compile the expression and store off the
>> bytecode, to be executed each function invocation if nothing is bound
>> to the parameter - sort of an extra, optional, first line to the
>> function.
> 
> This would be another example of a reasonably straightforward
> implementation that would get the desired effect as well.


The semantics of the two mechanisms are very different.  Consider e.g.:

aa=bb=23

def f(x=[aa, bb]): print x
f()

aa=44
f()


Under the "evaluate at def time, copy at every call time" mechanism, just 
like with the current semantics, this prints:
[23, 23]
[23, 23]

Under the "delayed evaluation at every call time only" mechanism, though, 
it prints:
[23, 23]
[44, 23]

Now, these effects (plural) can't BOTH be "the desired effect" (singular), 
can they?  They're different... so, if one is desired, then the other is 
not.

Similarly, it's easy to show differences between using copy and using 
deepcopy as variants of the "copy every time" choice.

Another part of the effect that some newbies seem to sometimes desire comes 
with:

def f(x=anobj, y=x.anattribute):

and here I think that only delayed evaluation (with a different scope, 
local to f rather than global) might satisfy that.


I think a case can be made for either of the two extremes as being SIMPLE 
to explain and conceptualize: either the current one (evaluation at def 
time in global scope) or the one that makes:

def f(x=<expression>):

identical to what currently must be expressed somewhat like:

def f(x=<privatesentinel>):
  if x is <privatesentinel>: x=<expression

"Intermediate" solutions, with calls to copy or deepcopy seemingly 
appearing out of nowhere, seem clunky and complicated mechanisms to
me in comparison.


Alex



From pu at myRealBox.com  Sat Nov  2 12:46:49 2002
From: pu at myRealBox.com (pu)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:46:49 +0100
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on AIX 4.3.3 / AIX 5.1
Message-ID: <3dc40e9c_2@news.vo.lu>

Hello,
has anyone ported Python to the big blue Unix system?
-PU




From smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org  Fri Nov  8 10:40:56 2002
From: smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org (Jacob Smullyan)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 10:40:56 -0500
Subject: Virtual Filesystem (was: Adding ftputil to the Python distribution?)
References: <aq6kpl$td1$1@news.online.de> <mailman.1036573573.23006.python-list@python.org> <f199e60.0211070207.5ed58c25@posting.google.com> <slrnasle8i.v6v.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org> <f199e60.0211080120.5818779b@posting.google.com> <aqgi7e$j67$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <slrnasnmo7.3qd.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>

In article <aqgi7e$j67$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
> On 8 Nov 2002 01:20:16 -0800, stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl) wrote:
>> I'd really like to see a vfs in the standard
>>python distribution.
> I too. But I believe any given implementation will implicitly reflect
> conventions with respect to operations in abstract name space, and I think
> that ought to be laid out in a PEP before adopting any particular implementation.
>
> Otherwise there is likely to be special limitations, e.g., not being able
> to delegate parsing of path tails to other vfs's mounted within the first, etc.

The Skunk vfs actually does do that on demand, but not automatically,
as I believe both gnome-vfs and emacs will do when it finds an archive
file.  I simply didn't need or want that behavior, but I recognize of
course that a general purpose vfs should have that ability.  The vfs
cited was written to satisfy some immediate needs, with a little extra
generality thrown in around the periphery; it was not designed with a
view towards solving every problem that a vfs might solve, but might
be suggestive to someone working on a more ambitious solution.

> The vfs above is very close to what I was talking about recently. But not
> exactly, and not quite from the same POV. And any discussion of general
> or genericized (v)file access will garner reminders that lisp has a lot
> of prior art ;-)

I'd be interested if you could enlarge a little on the subject of LISP
genericized file access, at least to the point of providing clues for
how a Lisp neophyte might research it.  


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Nov  5 23:40:43 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 22:40:43 -0600
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
	<aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> 
	<aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1036557643.475.3.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Tue, 2002-11-05 at 21:38, Frodo Morris wrote:
> Faster, better, cheaper.
> Imagine if parrot could understand all interpreted code.  Why not leave 
> it running, so that any Perl/Python/Tcl/Ruby/Java/sh/BASIC/whatever code 
> can get to it immediately?  A parrotd exec would consist of: "Run this." 
>   "OK".  A #! consists of "Does this file exist?"  "Yes."  "Does it 
> work?"  "Yes."  "OK, run this."  "OK".  I contend that a properly set up 
> parrotd *should* be faster than the equivalent "each language set up 
> separately" environment.

Then why not just have a libparrot?  Let the OS's caching sort it out --
if it's being used, libparrot will stay in memory.  Assuming you aren't
going to replicate OS-level functionality, like processes and memory
protection.

  Ian




From dlashar at sprynet.com  Tue Nov  5 17:17:26 2002
From: dlashar at sprynet.com (David)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:17:26 -0500
Subject: Shelve Problem
Message-ID: <aq9ga1$pvv$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>

Hello.  I am getting some behavior with shelves that I can't figure out.  As
shown below, I have a data file that yields an error when the keys() method
is initially invoked.  If, however, I invoke the keys() method after
checking for the existence of the expected key (w/ the has_key() method),
the keys() method "suddenly" works.  Any insights/suggestions would be
appreciated.  Thanks,

    David

>>> sh = shelve.open('c:\\jdl_files\\sport.data')
>>> sh.keys()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "shelve.py", line 56, in keys
    return self.dict.keys()
error: (22, 'Invalid argument')
>>> sh.dict.has_key('baseball')
1
>>> sh.keys()
['baseball']
>>> sh.close()





From walterm at parque.homelinux.net  Thu Nov 21 20:49:14 2002
From: walterm at parque.homelinux.net (Walter Moreira)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:49:14 -0300
Subject: ANN: RPy 0.3 (including Win version also)
Message-ID: <20021122014914.GA24964@parque.homelinux.net>

Hello.

I have release RPy 0.3.  The main news is that this version includes
Windows support.  I appreciate your feedback with this platform, since
I haven't tested it much.  Enjoy.

    http://rpy.sourceforge.net


WHAT IS RPy?

RPy is a very simple, yet robust, Python interface to the R
Programming Language (http://www.r-project.org).  It can manage all
kinds of R objects and can execute arbitrary R functions (including
the graphic functions).  All the errors from the R language are
converted to Python exceptions.  Any module that later were installed
on the R system, can easily be used from within Python, without
introducing any changes.


CHANGES IN RPy 0.3

Fixed bugs

o There was a bug in the conversion of factors (when it has duplicate
  entries).

o The R computations were unbreakable, due to the interception of the
  SIGINT signal.  Now, it is working properly; CTRL-C aborts any
  Python or R evaluation with a KeyboardInterrupt exception.

o The input/output of the R interpreter was directed to the C
  stdin/stdout instead of the Python streams.

New features

o Added functions to manipulate the R event loop.

o Added functions to customize the input and output of the R
  interpreter (the default is, now, sys.stdin and sys.stdout).  Now,
  RPy works well with IDLE or other IDE's.

o The output from the R help command is also customizable.

o Added the R boolean objects TRUE and FALSE, as attributes of the
  Python 'r' object.

Documentation

o Updated (and a bit expanded) the docs to reflect the changes.  Added
  sections with acknowledgements and known bugs.

Distribution

o Included a 'setenv.c' for POSIX compliance.

o Support for Windows platform.




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Nov  7 03:05:52 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:05:52 GMT
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036637588.30844.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <A9py9.2897$h%5.103801@newsb.telia.net>

Tim Peters wrote:

> [Tim]
> >> Write it in a platform-independent way.  If you *intended* this
> >> literal to mean "a 1 bit followed by 31 zero bits", then stick an
> >> L on the end of the literal.
>
> [/F]
> > ...and remove it again when you get to Python 2.5.
>
> You can if you want.  The PEP continues to allow it until Python 3.0.

According to the PEP, Python 2.5 will print warnings whenever you use
long literals.  If the OP doesn't want warnings, he'll have to change his
code for 2.3, and change it back for 2.5.

Looks like the only portable way to use large "unsigned" constants is to
use long("0x80000000")...

</F>




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Nov 27 15:52:41 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:52:41 -0500
Subject: Passing COM IDispatch from C to PythonCOM
References: <mu9F9.205$bV3.31@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bhaF9.16906$yk6.302@fe03>

"Jon Redgrave" <jredgrave at capisco.com> wrote in message
news:mu9F9.205$bV3.31 at news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> I have a C program that has an IDispatch pointer to a COM object.
> I want to run an embedded python script that uses this IDispatch pointer
> (using Mark Hammond's excellent win32all), but do not know how to pass it
to
> the script.
>
> PythonCOM appears to wrap IDispatch's in PyIDispatch object, How do I wrap
> it, or can I somehow pass it another way (as an int??) and wrap it in
> Python?
>
> Many thanks for your help
>

Well, you could use win32com.server.util.wrap(), I suppose?

regards
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/
Previous .sig file retired to                    www.homeforoldsigs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 13 16:32:53 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:32:53 +0000
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037219902.17042.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD2C505.96B41A1C@hotmail.com>

Cameron Horn wrote:

> If I want to write an empty generator, I write this(?):
> def foo():
>   return
>   yield "never"

> Assuming that having an empty generator is as valid as empty functions
> and classes, what kind of linguistic cruft is that?  I expect better
> out of python, dang it.
> 
> What I'd like to write is:
> gen foo():
>    return

What is the semantic of "an empty generator", i.e. what does it mean? A
generator that never generates any values?

Would this fulfill your requirement? (And not upset you so much :-)

def nullgen():
    raise StopIteration
    yield "never called"

>>> for x in nullgen():
...     print x
...
>>>
>>>

It doesn't bother me.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 12 16:30:02 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:30:02 -0800
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <aqrka3$1emk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3DD172DA.3CE01328@alcyone.com>

"Russell E. Owen" wrote:

> The default value of alist will not stay [] (an empty list) but
> instead
> is affected by whatever you pass in for "alist". Very tricky and
> unpleasant.
> 
> Here's my usual solution:
> def okfunc(alist=None):
>    alist = alist or []

If you're using None as a sentinel value, it's probably better to test
for None-ness (via alist is None) rather than test for truth, since many
things can be false which are not None.

It's unlikely that in this particular example it would pose a problem,
but in the more general case it could.  The idiom _I_ use is:

	def f(l=None):
	    if l is None:
	        l = []
	    ...

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If a thing is worth doing, then it is worth doing badly.
\__/ G.K. Chesterton
    ZOE / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/zoe/
 A simple Python OpenGL rendering engine.


From karthik at james.hut.fi  Fri Nov 22 05:55:53 2002
From: karthik at james.hut.fi (Karthikesh Raju)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 12:55:53 +0200
Subject: Error with copying
Message-ID: <2dadk1lvpi.fsf@itl-pc87.hut.fi>

Hi,

i am trying to copy an slice of an array and i keep getting the error:

>> Object too deep for desired array


i tried the following:


sCode = Numeric.zeros([nprime*C,K*L*(window+1)],'d') # nprime = 1

for k in range(K):
        for l in range(L):
            code1 = copy.deepcopy(Numeric.array(code[k,0:C-pd[k,l]]))
            code1.shape = (C-pd[k,l],1)
            sCode[:, (window+1)*l+window*L*k]  = Numeric.concatenate((Numeric.zeros([pd[k,l],1]),Numeric.zeros([C*window,1]),code1))
             

Where:

K is 1, L is 1,
pd = array([[0]])
code = array([[-1,1,-1,1,1]])
window = 1

i thought that this is due to the references generated at every slice,
but i am struck now....

Thankx in advance
karthik

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Karthikesh Raju,		    email: karthik at james.hut.fi		
Researcher,			    http://www.cis.hut.fi/karthik
Helsinki University of Technology,  Tel: +358-9-451 5389
Laboratory of Comp. & Info. Sc.,    Fax: +358-9-451 3277
Department of Computer Sc.,
P.O Box 5400, FIN 02015 HUT,
Espoo, FINLAND
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From web.mail at lycos.com  Thu Nov  7 16:28:25 2002
From: web.mail at lycos.com (Alan Green)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 13:28:25 -0800
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
Message-ID: <270c68fe.0211071328.49f8abd@posting.google.com>

Daniel Pfeiffer <occitan at esperanto.org> wrote in message news:<20021105221004.339206f3.occitan at esperanto.org>...
> Hi,
> 
> this morning it struck me that it would be nice to have Parrot not only run 
> Perl 6 and similar byte code, but that any of the common interpreted languages
> be compiled to this same byte code.

Is it just me, or does anyone else think it peculiar that someone
'@esperanto.org' is championing a unified approach to language?

Daniel, is this part of a scheme to bring Python, Perl, TCL, Ruby
programmers around to your way of thinking?

;)

a


From theller at python.net  Thu Nov 21 05:04:49 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 11:04:49 +0100
Subject: Mirror of Python Cookbook
References: <pan.2002.11.20.17.08.46.349629.2476@thomas-guettler.de> <zns4z07b.fsf@python.net> <pan.2002.11.21.06.14.27.681964.719@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <3cpvw85a.fsf@python.net>

Thomas Guettler <pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de> writes:

> On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:15:52 +0100, Thomas Heller wrote:
> 
> > Thomas Guettler <pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de> writes:
> > 
> >> Hi!
> >> 
> >> Is there a mirror of the python cookbook?
> >> 
> >> It has a lot of great recipes, I don't want to miss them if the sever
> >> is down.
> > 
> > The printed book works great as a mirror. Most of the time, it's also
> > faster.
> 
> Sorry, I can't use grep or other IT search techniques on paper.
> 

Hm, I think I forgot to insert a smiley, sorry for that.

> If the book was created by a lot of individuals, you should be
> able to get the "source" for local mirroring, too.

Why not simply ask ActiveState?

And to answer your original question: No, I don't know of a mirror.

Thomas


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Nov  8 10:13:10 2002
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:13:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqgka6$t8j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

oleg_inconnu at myrealbox.com (Oleg) writes:

>Hi

>I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
>between Python and Common Lisp (
>http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
>wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?

My opinion (the short version anyway) is that because Python is a lot easier
to learn and use.  It's a bit like the difference between a point and click
camera and a 'real' one - to use a 'real' camera for even a simple photo you
need to understand the whole biz.  However, unlike some languages I won't
mention, Python does its best to give the max. power (of Scheme,Haskell etc.)
for the max. ease of use.

Eddie


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Nov 30 21:46:21 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:46:21 -0600
Subject: Threading problems at program exit
In-Reply-To: <m37keuptwo.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
References: <m3hee02arn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <3de8931f$0$75603$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl> <m37keuptwo.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <20021130204610.A26471@unpythonic.net>

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 09:36:07AM +1100, Dave Cole wrote:
> I should be more specific...
> 
> The code in question is my Python bindings for Sybase.  According the
> the DB-API specification a database module must provide Connection
> objects for managing database connections, and Cursor objects for
> executing commands over a Connection.  The DB-API implies that you
> should be able to do something like the following:
> 
> db = Sybase.connect(...)  # return Connection
> 
> # in thread1
> c1 = db.cursor()
> c1.execute('select * blah')
> while 1:
>     row = c1.fetchone()
>     if not row:
>         break
> 
> # in thread2
> c2 = db.cursor()
> c2.execute('select * from blahblah')
> while 1:
>     row = c2.fetchone()
>     if not row:
>         break
> 
> Now the problem is that even though the database connection can be
> shared between threads it can only support a single query in flight at
> a time.  This means that while a cursor is fetching results over a
> Connection I need the Cursor to maintain a lock on the Connection.  I
> do not have any control over the structure of the client code which is
> using the Cursor.

So you must support even the following code, right (two queries in flight
in the same thread)?

    c1 = db.cursor()
    c2 = db.cursor()
    c1.execute(QUERY1)
    while 1:
        row1 = c1.fetchone()
        if not row1: break

        c2.execute(QUERY2)
        while 1:
            row2 = c2.fetchone()
            if not row2: break
            # do something with (row1, row2)        

If you invent some kind of scheme that involves putting a lock that
prevents c1 and c2 from being "in a query" at the same time, won't this
single-threaded code deadlock?

Jeff



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Tue Nov 19 11:28:39 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:28:39 GMT
Subject: stopping SimpleHTTPServer
References: <rllC9.1167$Kw6.763611@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <mailman.1037712456.9562.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XEtC9.1316$Kw6.814584@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Fran?ois Pinard" <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037712456.9562.python-list at python.org...
> [dsavitsk]
>
> > I have an application built on BaseHTTPServer.

* * *

> >  The problem I am having is that I can't kill
> > it remotely.  I put in a sys.exit(), but that didn't do any good. Can
> > anyone suggest a good way?  Actually, I would like a way to kill it
> > from a command line as well.
>
> One may use some special URLs as triggers to the server.  In more complex
> applications, you might combine the above idea with HTML forms meant to
> drive the server itself.
>
I think I didn't ask a very clear question.  I tried to have a special url
cause a function to be called which kills the server.  The problem is that
sys.exit() didn't manage to bring it down ... it gave this traceback instead

----------------------------------------
Exception happened during processing of request from ('127.0.0.1', 1118)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python\lib\SocketServer.py", line 221, in handle_request
    self.process_request(request, client_address)
  File "C:\Python\lib\SocketServer.py", line 240, in process_request
    self.finish_request(request, client_address)
  File "C:\Python\lib\SocketServer.py", line 253, in finish_request
    self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
  File "C:\Python\lib\SocketServer.py", line 501, in __init__
    self.handle()
  File "C:\Python\lib\BaseHTTPServer.py", line 266, in handle
    method()
  File "C:\ecp\Script1.py", line 39, in do_GET
    f = self.process_command()
  File "C:\ecp\Script1.py", line 55, in process_command
    sys.exit(1)
SystemExit: 1
----------------------------------------

?




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Nov 27 14:22:46 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:22:46 -0500
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
References: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com> <3de3e129$0$4437$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <as0p9f$3c7$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <uu89r7d7flnd09@news.supernews.com> <as2ls4$2up$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <uua6rnbcl63ma3@news.supernews.com>

"Joshua Marshall" <jmarshal at madmax.mathworks.com> wrote in message
news:as2ls4$2up$1 at ginger.mathworks.com...
> John Roth <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> > I'd think it would be equivalent to:
>
> > a += i
> > b += j
>
> > the corner case you mention should behave
> > the same as
>
> > a, b = b, a
>
> > Why make it more complicated than it has
> > to be?
>
> Because if you do the translation with your rule, you get:
>
>   a += b
>   b += a
>
> which is, in my opinion, unexpected.

That's the problem in a nutshell. If Python had a
pervasive rule for places where you can get
side effects from the order of updating, I'd say
to go with whatever that rule is. However, AFIK,
it doesn't, and what's intuitive to me, once I've
enunciated that it's equivalent to doing the bindings
one at a time, is that the order of doing them is
significant.

As you say, it depends on one's personal opinion.
I have no great attachment to either; but it would
have to be clearly documented, not left as something
that just happens that way.

John Roth




From b.hall at irl.cri.nz  Tue Nov 12 00:12:33 2002
From: b.hall at irl.cri.nz (Blair Hall)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:12:33 +1300
Subject: simple metaclass question
Message-ID: <3DD08DC1.A4CFE557@irl.cri.nz>

Please don't ask me why, but in trying to use metaclasses
I simplified my code to the following:

class M(object):
    def __init__(cls,name, bases,dict):
        cls.val=0

    def set(cls,n):
        cls.val = n

class A(object):
    __metaclass__ = M
    val = 3

class B(object) :
    val = 2

I was then surprised to see that
>>> A.val
0
>>> B.val
2
>>>A.set(5)
>>>A.val
5

Why is the initial A.val not 3?
How should I change the code so that it
does work that way?

I am trying to eventually create
classes that hold values and can be manipulated
by arithmetic operators.

Any pointers gratefully accepted.



From rmunn at pobox.com  Thu Nov 21 16:25:55 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:25:55 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <87wun7tt8k.fsf@key.localdomain>
Message-ID: <slrnatqk2u.hdq.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Patrick W <patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:
> 
>> [...] But I for one am porting my Cells project:
>> 
>>    http://www.tilton-technology.com/cells_top.html
>> 
>> ...to Python /precisely/ (a) to swim in a bigger pond (uh, pond with
>> more fish?) and (2) because there is (I hear) a x-platform GUI,
> 
> Several in fact.
> 
>> TKinter. And it's fun learning a new language, recommended so highly
>> by a CL worthy such as Norvig.
> 
> Not trying to twist your arm but in case you weren't aware of it, Qt
> (and PyQt) is just as portable as Tkinter (on platforms that matter)
> and has a few advantages (snappier performance, more 'native' look,
> more (and IMO, better) widgets, easy integration with opengl, stable
> and reliable, distributed under 'free' or commercial licences,
> arguably more popular in industry, etc).  They guy who maintains PyQt
> (the Python bindings to the Qt C++ libraries) does a great job of
> keeping up with the latest Qt releases.
> 
> Perhaps worth a look if you haven't checked it out already.
> 
> http://www.trolltech.com (for info on Qt)
> http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/index.php (for PyQt)

You may also want to look at wxPython (http://www.wxpython.org/), the
Python interface to the wxWindows cross-platform GUI library. The stable
release (a little old by now) runs on Unix and Windows, and the
development release includes Mac support. (It also includes OS/2, if you
need to target that platform). I don't know when they're going to
declare the 2.3 development branch "good enough" and release 2.4, but
all indications seem to be that the 2.3 branch is stable and useful for
working on.

As for which GUI package to use -- TKinter, PyQt or wxPython -- well,
this thread is already combustible enough without starting a second
flammable topic! :-) Figure out for yourself which one you like best.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From usenet at jasoegaard.dk  Mon Nov 25 05:16:40 2002
From: usenet at jasoegaard.dk (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jens_Axel_S=F8gaard?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:16:40 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Oleg wrote:
> I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
> between Python and Common Lisp (
> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?

Perhaps this scenario is common:

   Functional languages such as ML is introduced in semantics.
   Semantics is hard.

   Students think "ML is hard".

Later students are told "You can use Scheme/Lisp as a functional
programming language.

   They think: "Scheme/Lisp is hard - and why all the ()'s?".


Is this far fetched?



From stephen at theboulets.net  Mon Nov  4 23:22:22 2002
From: stephen at theboulets.net (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 22:22:22 -0600
Subject: stats question: cpk in python
Message-ID: <L9CdnRRS8I0v2lqgXTWc3A@giganews.com>

Does there exist a module in python that, given a distribution and an upper 
and lower side limit, will calculate the cpk?

-- Stephen


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Thu Nov 28 16:26:17 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 21:26:17 GMT
Subject: Bug in win32file.FindFilesW ?
In-Reply-To: <as4s2i$920$1@dackel.pdb.sbs.de>
References: <as4s2i$920$1@dackel.pdb.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <ZRvF9.25390$hg1.68955@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Werner Merkl wrote:
> 
>>>>f.FindFilesW(dir)
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

You will find that this is simply the error from *printing* the result, 
not from the operation.

l = f.FindFilesW(dir)

should work fine, and each element of 'l' should have a unicode 
character - but attempting to print ones with Unicode characters may fail.

> !!!! BTW: ">>> f.SetCurrentDirectory(dir)" brings also an ERROR!!!!

What error?

Mark.



From nandrats at mail.mdanderson.org  Wed Nov 20 16:33:10 2002
From: nandrats at mail.mdanderson.org (nandrats at mail.mdanderson.org)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:33:10 -0600
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
Message-ID: <86256C77.0075AAD2.00@utm-notesob1.mdacc.tmc.edu>


I just joined the mailinglist and am a complete newbie to python, although I
have experience in C++ programming.

Unfortunately, I feel quite irritated by the thread (Why is Python popular,
while Lisp and Scheme aren't?) ? I thought that this is a python list where
every kind of language related question can be posed. But this thread in my
opinion is getting out of range.

When somebody considers language X to be superior to language Y, then please
stick to it and do not try to convince people on a mailing list for language Y.

Besides, I really think that this is a very friendly list, but right now, I'm
getting more emails about this thread than really relevant mails for a newbie!


It's probably not very diplomatic to complain about it as a newbie, but it is
more intimidating than helping.

NIC





From hgg9140 at seanet.com  Mon Nov 11 21:05:16 2002
From: hgg9140 at seanet.com (Harry George)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 18:05:16 -0800
Subject: p2exe and ZODB
References: <mailman.1037023033.15571.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3vg33lezn.fsf@wilma.localdomain>

Etienne Labuschagne <ELabuschane at gmsonline.co.za> writes:

> Content-type: text/html ; charset = "iso-8859-1"
> 
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
> <HTML>
> <HEAD>
> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
> <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
> <TITLE>p2exe and ZODB</TITLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=2>Hi there,</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=2>I am using stand-alone ZODB (Zope Object Database) in a applica
> tion written in Python.&nbsp; The platform I am targeting is Windows 2000 and W
> indows XP.&nbsp; So far I had no luck&nbsp; py2exe'ing the product with ZODB in
> cluded.&nbsp; What I have done is to exclude ZODB (-e flag for py2exe) and crea
> te an install without the stand-alone ZODB.&nbsp; I then manually copy the ZODB
>  and all files needed by it (eg. base64) into the dist created by py2exe.</FONT
> ></P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=2>This works, but I sometimes get (seemingly) random pickling err
> ors when calling get_transaction().commit() on the ZODB database.&nbsp; This ca
> uses a lot of havoc as the transaction then also seems to be lost, which is VER
> Y bad!</FONT></P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=2>Anyone had any luck with py2exe and apps using ZODB?</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=2>If I can't get this to work, are there any other &quot;python n
> ot needed for install&quot; methods to package my product in?</FONT>
> </P>

I'm having trouble using standalone ZODB, with ramdom pickling errors
on commit as well.  I'm running on Linux, not Win**.  Maybe there is a
problem in ZODB?  My next attempt is to do the pickling directly, and
just make a database to store those strings.


> 
> <P><FONT SIZE=2>Regards</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Etienne Labuschagne</FONT>
> </P>
> 
> </BODY>
> </HTML>

-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com


From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Tue Nov 26 20:36:22 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:36:22 GMT
Subject: accessing front of a list
References: <as1539$693$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <tq78uu0q8u1pspjr1v0k5c24o2na1l35pa@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:50:35 -0000, "Simon Bunker"
<simon at rendermania.com> wrote:
(edit)
>Are there any books worth buying -
>particularly
>O'Reilley ones? I have seen Learning Python but don't know if this will
>cover much more
>(although the Perl Llama book isalways useful for Perl), the Programming
>Python
>and Python Cookbook and the Standalrd Library book. It would be nice if
>there was a
>"in a Nutshell" one.

Python is a "smaller" language.  You can use the O'Reilly Pocket
Reference in much the same way you used the Perl Nutshell book, in my
experience.

There was a big argument in the newsgroup earlier about whether it
makes sense to call a language "small" or "smaller".  It "feels"
smaller to me.  Of course, your perception is the only one that
counts, but try the Pocket Reference first, and see if that is the
only hardcopy reference you need.

Manuel


From malik_martin at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 27 16:20:04 2002
From: malik_martin at hotmail.com (malik m)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:20:04 GMT
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <mailman.1038414274.6010.python-list@python.org> <slrnauaif6.1gv.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <vs7auu07opjlv8enekpde94kfo241tnr5a@4ax.com> <mailman.1038429579.8127.python-list@python.org> <5ddauu0k5mffu8kfmrto430d0inhonn8bu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <kidauu06bd4d8l9fth8sue4ckp0d4n5tbl@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:16:19 GMT, malik m <malik_martin at hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:38:34 -0600, John Hunter
><jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> "malik" == malik m <malik_martin at hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>>    malik> i didnt to import that yet but i will try even tho i think
>>    malik> the program did what i want it to:)
>>
>>What do you think your mpg is if you drive 3 miles on a tank that
>>holds 2 gallons?  What does your program tell you it is .....
>>
>>John Hunter
>
>
>hmm yea i see what you're saying... ok i'll put it in.


yea i see now. this is one of the new features of 2.2.2 that my deitel
book told me about isnt it? is the deitel boook that bad? 
i know that the end of chapter tests are getting rediculously hard and
they are testing me on things they havent even taught me. i dont think
this is for a newbie, this book...


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 15 17:07:32 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:07:32 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org>
		<3DD47156.683F18B3@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037367695.5357.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD57024.B6CA2F95@alcyone.com>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:

> I might not be fully singing with the choir here, but I do not find
> that
> C is a simple language.  It has fairly intricate points here and
> there,
> and I guess there are very, very few people in this crowd, and in many
> other crowds as well, truly able to reply correctly to any question
> about
> C, the language, not even considering its libraries.

I think C itself is a relatively straightforward language, but it is
obviously much lower level than (say) Python, and so using it
productively will require considerably greater effort.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I never vote for anyone.  I always vote against.
\__/ W.C. Fields
    Bosskey.net: Aliens vs. Predator 2 / http://www.bosskey.net/avp2/
 A personal guide to Aliens vs. Predator 2.


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Nov 12 17:55:08 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:55:08 -0600
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
In-Reply-To: <20021112142148.A7181@ActiveState.com> (Trent Mick's message of
 "Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:21:48 -0800")
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com>
	<m2n0oeo5bq.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<pan.2002.11.12.20.44.22.748716@battleface.com>
	<20021112142148.A7181@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <m2lm3yl7oz.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

  Trent> A slight mod on John's code makes it seem pretty clean to me:
  Trent> 
  Trent> patterns = [re.compile('...'),
  Trent>             re.compile('...')]

That does look nicer, but doesn't allow for differential processing
depending on which re instance matched.  To do that, you can pair the
regexs with functions in a tuple of (rgx,action) pairs, or a dict if
order doesn't matter.  Admittedly the code below is more verbose than
the perl version, but at least the design is clean. 

import re

r1 = re.compile('John (\w+) (.*)')
r2 = re.compile('Bill')
r3 = re.compile('Sally (.*)')

def func2(m):
   return 'just a func'

actions = ((r1 , lambda m: 'I found ' + m.group(2)),
           (r2 , func2), 
           (r3 , lambda m: m.group(1)), 
           )

s1 = 'Sally was here'
s3 = 'John was Bill'
s5 = 'Bill and sally'
s2 = 'John was here'
s4 = 'No chance in hell'

lines = (s1,s2,s3,s4,s5)

for line in lines:
   for (rgx, func) in actions:
      m = rgx.match(line)
      if m:
         print func(m)
         break
   else:
      print 'Nobody matched line: %s' % line




From cliechti at gmx.net  Sun Nov 17 14:26:44 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 21:26:44 +0200
Subject: wxPython question
References: <lNRB9.2743$fY3.294687@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns92C9DA5E62FACcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"joshua solomon" <jslm at earthlink.net> wrote in
news:lNRB9.2743$fY3.294687 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net: 

> Basically I have a loop within the OnPaint handler which I am using
> for bouncing a ball around on a screen. 

don't do the loop for the animation in the event handler. do it in a 
separate thread nad call Refresh() or us a wxClientDC to draw in that loop 
directly.

GUI rule 1: event handlers have to be short (in time)

so no animations and workers. use Threading instead.

> def OnPaint(self,event):
>         MyDC=wxPaintDC(self)
> 
>         MyPen=wxPen('GREEN',1,wxSOLID)
>         MyBrush=wxBLUE_BRUSH
> 
>         MyDC.BeginDrawing()
>         MyDC.SetPen(MyPen)
>         MyDC.SetBrush(MyBrush)
>         if not self.x and not self.y:
>             self.x=40
>             self.y=40
>         MyDC.DrawCircle(self.x,self.y,15)
>         self.BounceBall(MyDC)
>         MyDC.EndDrawing()
> 
> def BounceBall(self,dc):
>         import time
>         MyPen1=wxPen('GREEN',1,wxSOLID)
>         MyBrush1=wxBLUE_BRUSH
>         dc.SetPen(MyPen1)
>         dc.SetBrush(MyBrush1)
> 
>         for y in range(1,100):
>             dc.SetLogicalFunction(wxCLEAR)
>             dc.DrawCircle(self.x,self.y,15)
>             self.x+=5
>             self.y+=5
>             dc.SetLogicalFunction(wxCOPY)
>             dc.DrawCircle(self.x,self.y,15)

use time.sleep(0.1) for this:
>             t1=time.clock()
>             while 1:
>                 delt=time.clock()-t1
>                 if delt >=0.1:
>                     break

what you're doing is heating the CPU with 100% load for nothing but 
waiting...

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  5 13:19:28 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:19:28 -0500
Subject: bug report w\o registering
References: <mailman.1036471806.10073.python-list@python.org> <aq8kck$n0i$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <rx-cnebTFOgxlFWgXTWcqA@comcast.com>

"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote in message
news:aq8kck$n0i$1 at news.hccnet.nl...
> Sorry about that! One small nit though:
>
> <docs> (Doc\lib\os-newstreams.html)
>
> This functionality is also available in the popen2 module using
> functions of the same names, but the return values of those
functions
> have a different order.
>
> <docs>
>
> This tripped me because it says nothing here about parameters.

So submit as doc bug or go to docs at python.org and find link to
email doc suggestions (without going thru sf).

tjr




From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Nov  4 08:34:25 2002
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:34:25 +0000
Subject: Tkinter File Dialog Question
In-Reply-To: <1036415728.1268.17.camel@m-franklin>
References: <6747bc9d.0211021953.4fd02462@posting.google.com>
 <l7px9.9$pU4.435@news.get2net.dk>
 <6747bc9d.0211040501.2e8000b5@posting.google.com>
 <1036415728.1268.17.camel@m-franklin>
Message-ID: <1036416867.2737.2.camel@m-franklin>

On Mon, 2002-11-04 at 13:15, Martin Franklin wrote:
> On Mon, 2002-11-04 at 13:01, Steve Zatz wrote:
> > Jorgen,
> > 
> > Thanks much for the response.  I wasn't aware that there was a
> > defaultextension option.  Unfortunately, it doesn't quite solve my
> > problem.  I am providing the users with several extension options (eg
> > xml, txt) and they are selecting one of those options and then
> > (understandably) creating a file name without an extension assuming
> > that it will pick up the extension they have selected.  However, I
> > don't see any way to get at their extension selection since the Dialog
> > only seems to return the filename they input.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > you can use the option: 'defaultextension'. Example
> > > 
> > > >>> import tkFileDialog
> > > >>> res = tkFileDialog.asksaveasfilename(defaultextension=".txt")
> > >  (user types in "myfilename")
> > > >>> res
> > > 'myfilename.txt'
> > > 
> > > Remember the dot in the extension string. I just tried and it works, 
> > > unless the user selects a filename that already exist.
> > > 
> > > Regards
> > > Jorgen Cederberg
> > -- 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> Have you tried this.  On my linux (RedHat 8.0) python 2.2.2
> I can supply a list of filetypes to the tkFileDialog and when the user
> only types a file name (no extension) the selected extension is appended
> to the returned filename.  :-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>> import tkFileDialog
> >>> filename = tkFileDialog.asksaveasfilename(filetypes=[("text files",
> "*.txt"),
> ...     ("python source code", "*.py")])
> 
> <<< users types aaaa and selected *.txt as file type>>>>
> 
> 
> >>> print filename
> /usr/python/scripts/aaaa.txt
> 


Whoops..  I have compiled python with Tk 8.4 this seems to be a 'new'
feature.... I just tested against Tk 8.3 and my solution doesn't work!

Sorry but I guess short of upgrading your Tk version..... 









From jan at muskelfisch.com  Fri Nov  1 11:12:16 2002
From: jan at muskelfisch.com (Jan Boelsche)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 08:12:16 -0800
Subject: multiple embedded python interpreter instances in a *single*threaded application
Message-ID: <782fad98.0211010812.4c1a63b2@posting.google.com>

I want to wrap the python interpreter into a C++ class named
PythonInterpreter. Each instance of PythonInterpreter needs to have
its own independant interpreter instance.
I've read the section about Thread States in the Python C API
documentation and I understand how to create and swap PyThreadStates
to acomplish independance between interpreter instances. However what
I want to do has nothing to do with threads, I am looking for a way to
save and restore PyInterpreterState, which I think is a member of
PyThreadStates. I assume swaping PyThreadStates would
cause unnecessary overhead because of needless acquisition of the
global lock.

What I want to do is something like this:

class PythonInterpreter {
public:
  PythonInterpreter();
  bool runSkript(std::string code);
protected:
  PyInterpreterState* _state;
};

void main() {
  PythonInterpreter p1, p2;
  p1.runSKript("import sys\n");
  p2.runSKript("import sys\n");
  p1.runSKript("sys.path = 'foo'\n");
  p2.runSKript("sys.path = 'bar'\n");
}

What would be the most efficient way to acomplish this?

Thanks in advance,
  Jan


From cbrown at metservice.com  Wed Nov 27 14:19:45 2002
From: cbrown at metservice.com (Colin Brown)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:19:45 +1300
Subject: Q: serial port transmit pending count
References: <3de40f51$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net> <3de415a7$0$22175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3de51ad1$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net>

Thanks Grant

I was attempting to use file stats but figured that was probably
not the right way to do it. Termios looked a little daunting.
In my application I only need a rough count of the remaining
characters in the queue so that I can keep it topped up during
periodic checking.

Colin





From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Sat Nov  9 12:24:25 2002
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 17:24:25 GMT
Subject: loggin out automatically
References: <1036253358.19897.0@doris.uk.clara.net> <usea4eqqgbrped@corp.supernews.com> <3DC853DF.6060509@cyberspace.org> <omubqa.812.ln@anto.cuni.lan> <usnj1idf2a9837@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2emv9-p1g.ln1@news.lairds.org>

>>> I am responsible for maintaining a PC in a hotel which is available for
>>> use of guests, basically just e-mail and web browsing. We are currently
>>> using a program called "timewatcher" which allows me to provide "access
>>> codes" each code providing a particular period of access - 20, 30, 60
>>> min or whatever
>>
>>You could use this script as the default shell for guests; it 
>>automatically kills bash after a fixed amount of time:

[good simple Python script]

>Seconded.  Something like this will probably serve you
>even better than your current "timewatcher".  I think
>you'll end up pleasantly surprised at how simple and
>flexible such operations are under Linux.

Speaking of flexibility, I suggest that after the time
has expired, you check a file for a new code.  This
would allow the user to acquire (buy?  beg?) more time
and then use it without having to restart everything.
A setuid script could be used to update the file.

I'd probably also do something more complex than this:
    os.kill(pid, signal.SIGTERM)
Maybe just HUP it first and then TERM/KILL it later?  I
am thinking it would be good to give it a chance to
save data.

You're going to run an X server for all of this, not
just give users a command shell, right?  You could just
use a similar script to end it.

--kyler


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Nov 11 07:25:44 2002
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:25:44 +0000
Subject: Efficient scanning of mbox files
In-Reply-To: <1037016388.1101.5.camel@m-franklin>
References:  <16E1010E4581B049ABC51D4975CEDB88619932@UKDCX001.uk.int.atosorigin.com>
 <1037016388.1101.5.camel@m-franklin>
Message-ID: <1037017547.1334.10.camel@m-franklin>

On Mon, 2002-11-11 at 12:06, Martin Franklin wrote:
> On Mon, 2002-11-11 at 11:42, Moore, Paul wrote:
> > 
> >     def add_group(self, id, file):
> >         print "Opening file", file, "for group", id
> >         fp = open(file, "rb")
> >         posns = []
> >         oldpos = 0
> >         n = 0
> >         while 1:
> >             line = fp.readline()
> >             if not line: break
> >             if FROM_RE.match(line):
> >                 n += 1
> >                 posns.append(oldpos)
> >             oldpos = fp.tell()
> >         fp.close()
> >         posns.append(oldpos)
> >         print "Group", id, "- articles(posns) =", n, len(posns)
> >         self.groups[id] = (file, n, posns)
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> Paul,
> 
> 
> I ran the above example on my Python folder (7000+ messages...)
> it took 12 seconds to process.  Then I changed the 
> if FROM_RE.match(line):
> 
> to
> 
> if line.startswith("From "):
> 
> 
> And got a 2 second speed up....  
> 
> Then I slurped the file into a cStringIO.StringIO object and got it down
> to 5 seconds.....
> 
> 


Another thought....  if you have Python 2.2 (or greater)  you can
iterate through the file :-

    for line in fp:
        if line.startswith("From "):
            posns.append(oldpos)


Again this should shave a second or two from the result...


This is my fastest:-


import time
import cStringIO

groups={}

def add_group(id, file,  fp):
    print "Opening file", file, "for group", id
    posns = []
    oldpos = 0
    for line in fp:
        if line.startswith("From "):
            posns.append(oldpos)
        oldpos = fp.tell()
    posns.append(oldpos)
    n=len(posns)-1
    print "Group", id, "- articles(posns) =", n, len(posns)
    groups[id] = (file, n, posns)


cfile=cStringIO.StringIO(open("Mail/Python").read())
cfile.seek(0)
add_group(1,"/home/bpse/Mail/Python", cfile)
cfile.close()
print time.clock()













From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Mon Nov 25 03:30:24 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:30:24 +0100
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <arpvi8$f9c$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <arsn14$pfi$1@news.netpower.no>

"Fernando P?rez" <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:arpvi8$f9c$1 at peabody.colorado.edu...
> And for those of us who don't use powerpoint, the pdf version is also
> available (prettier than google's html-ized ppt):
>
> http://www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/regrets/PythonRegrets.pdf
>

If you can find it, there is a free (!) powerpoint viewer from Microsoft,
along with word and excel viewers.  They are a bit old, and may not support
the latest formats - they may not even still be available.  But they are
very much faster than the real MS Office programs, and don't support macro
viruses.

Of course, you can always use Open Office for PowerPoint files.





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov 23 11:11:30 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:11:30 -0600
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
In-Reply-To: <1239.92T1047T4844497threeseas@earthlink.net> ("Timothy Rue"'s
 message of "Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:07:38 GMT")
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>
	<743utuoi3l31t8e8tt9v3sncosuk2gqi02@4ax.com>
	<1239.92T1047T4844497threeseas@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <m2hee88dvx.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Timothy" == Timothy Rue <threeseas at earthlink.net> writes:

    Timothy> they exist here too.

They are everywhere <wink>

    Timothy> so what the fuck don't you understand about a named
    Timothy> container that can hold changable information? Like a
    Timothy> variable or a file.

If you say named container, to a python coder, they will think list,
tuple, dict and maybe string.  They definitely would not initially
think about a 'variable or file'.

"variables" in python are a little different than in other programming
languages.  python has "names" for objects.  This example illustrates
one of the initially surprising ways names work

  x = []
  y = []
  x.append(1)
  print y

x and y are just names for the same object (the empty list).  When you
change that object referring to it by the name 'x', the changes are
seen when you refer to it by it's other name 'y'.  So y now equals
[1].

A variable in the sense you are using it is not a "container that can
hold changeable information".  The variable is a name and not a
container.  This is a difference worth remembering and understanding.

Now, on to real containers.  

In the example of a list

  x = [1,2,3]

A python coder would say x is the name of a container (list) that
holds changeable (mutable) information (in real life the would call it
a "list" or more generally a "mutable sequence type").  In the example

  y = (1,2,3)

A python coder would say y is the name of a container (tuple) that
hold unchangeable (immutable) information.  So we can say x[1] = 12 but
cannot say y[1] = 12.

    Timothy> Or hell, how about variables in files..

Hmm, this one is tougher.  matlab has m-files that let you save named
variables in a file.  Python has pickle, but it's not quite the same
thing.  You might think of a file as something that can hold
(changeable) information.  Or you might think of it as holding the
values of your variables (named objects).  But because python thinks
in terms of objects with names, you wouldn't be inclined to think
about "variables in files".

    Timothy> Are you one of them arrogant jerks in power that haven't
    Timothy> a clue, too.

    Timothy> Of course you are, why else woud you think I'm delusional
    Timothy> about such a simple common concept?

It's not really as simple as you make it out to be.  The subtleties in
the simple concepts of "variables" and "named containers" trip up
almost all newcomers to python at one point or another.

just-my-clueless-arrogant-jerk-with-no-power two cents
John Hunter




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sat Nov 16 00:23:27 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:23:27 -0500
Subject: Families and syntax (fwd)
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org>
 <3DD47156.683F18B3@alcyone.com> <m2r8dnggt0.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <PZd19kKkX8GV092yn@gnosis.cx>                

Paul Foley <see at below.invalid> wrote previously:
|> You keep glossing over the difference between C and C++, but they are
|> not the same thing,

|Hmm.  That's what some of us keep saying about Scheme and Lisp.
|Someone recently called me a crackpot for saying so.  Is it
|not-crackpottery to tell people C and C++ (which are far closer than
|Scheme and Lisp) are not the same thing?

Well...  I think I'm said crackpot-caller.  No offense meant, btw, Paul
(feel free to launch similar allegations to my non-disguised address).

But the allegation was on the equation of Intercal with Java.  Those
seem rather far apart to me.  Much farther than C and C++ or Scheme and
Lisp.

The first principle I would espouse is:  SYNTAX MATTERS!  Really it
does.  I quite sincerely believe that no matter what the whole "Why is
Python popular and Lisp not" thread said, the biggest problem Lisp has
(popularity-wise, but popularity need not be a goal) is syntax.  And,
yes, I also believe that Lisp has parentheses and prefix notation (I
have a half-dozen famous introductions that confirm this belief, and
only some... well, crackpot, asides that dispute it on Jesuitical
reasons).

So on the syntax, we can note the following:

    Lisp    Scheme      Python     C    C++      Java    Intercal
    lots-of-parens      not so many .............................
    prefix notation     mostly infix...................  sentential
    even more parens    indents   { delimiter blocks }   lines
    even more parens    lines     semicolons...........  lines

But on semantic issues, the same patterns exists:

    Lisp    Scheme      Python     C    C++      Java    Intercal
    largely-functional  a little   hardly at all.................
    code-as-data        difficult  not really at all.............
    dynamic typing      yep        very static  difficult  ???
    OOP with work       OOP     procdrl OOP     OOP      procedural
    lots of recursion   a little  smidgeon   less still  I think none
    continuations   old stackless Not a chance...................
    multi-paradigm      yep       No  Painful  Sort-of   less than one

So basically, in every broad category Lisp and its dialect Scheme come
out the same.  Python indeed leans closer to the Lisp side of things
than do other languages.

Now indeed, C and C++ differ in some significant ways.  But they have a
special relationship in the sense the C++ is a superset of C. Well, at
least close.  Almost every valid C program is also a valid C++ program.
In that sense, writing about C/C++ may miss something significant, but
it doesn't quite make "crackpot".

Yours, David...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov  6 15:28:16 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 12:28:16 -0800
Subject: idiom for initialising variables
References: <3dc964fa$0$12989@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <20021106110652.D18006@ActiveState.com> <mailman.1036611173.18947.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DC97B60.AC6688BF@alcyone.com>

Trent Mick wrote:

> Despite having a response that looks almost exactly like mine, Erik's
> response reveals a difference that I didn't really identify: that 'a'
> in
> the former case ("TopLevel" in my example) is shared by all instances.
	...
> not-quite-as-swift-as-erik-ly yours,

:-)

There's one significant point that neither of us mentioned, which is
that even when there is a class attribute present, instances _can_
override it locally:

>>> class C:
...  s = 1 # this is the class attribute
...  def __init__(self, x):
...   self.x = x # this is the instance attribute
... 
>>> c1 = C(1)
>>> c2 = C(2)
>>> C.s = 10 # this changes it for all instances
>>> c1.s
10
>>> c2.s
10
>>> c1.s = 20 # but this only changes it for the instance c1
>>> c1.s
20
>>> c2.s
10
>>> C.s
10

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ We are victims of our circumstance.
\__/ Sade Adu
    Crank Dot Net / http://www.crank.net/
 Cranks, crackpots, kooks, & loons on the Net.


From catonano at inwind.it  Sun Nov 24 18:08:13 2002
From: catonano at inwind.it (catonano at inwind.it)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 15:08:13 -0800
Subject: Zope on MacOs X trobleshooting
References: <e1119919.0211211217.1875e02a@posting.google.com> <257c96b0.0211221744.60ff122@posting.google.com> <e1119919.0211231039.334db022@posting.google.com> <257c96b0.0211231956.601aa5d3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e1119919.0211241508.18f324e7@posting.google.com>

Dan,

thanks for your kindness :)

dkwolfe at pacbell.net (Dan Wolfe) wrote in message news:<257c96b0.0211231956.601aa5d3 at posting.google.com>...
> The hostname may
> however be part of the configuration file setting so check to see if
Yes I discovered that calling it with the switch -a localhost it
runned fine, network or not.

> To answer your other question, -AUTOMATIC- setting automatically
> switches the hostname when the connection goes down... but it takes a
> couple of seconds to recognize that the net has gone down before
> switching. Thus, you probably where able to launch Zope with it still
> pointing to the old hostname and was therefore sucessful.
> 
> - Dan

Thanks for all your help. No Help Desk board has never been so clear,
correct and rapid to me ! ;)

Have a nice day, Dan, you deserve it !

Bye
Catonano


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Nov  6 04:07:57 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:07:57 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
 <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net>
 <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

.
......
>
>A key part of his proposal was that Guile would support translators
>from other languages, like Python, C, etc., to Guile.
>
>It didn't happen.  Writing those translators are hard because each
>of the languages has different object models, which must be implemented
>nearly perfectly.  Guile is a full-fledge language built on years of
>research into Lisp and scheme, so I would be surprised if it was any
>easier to implement in Parrot's byte code.  It didn't happen with
>Guile, it's even less likely to happen with Parrot.
......

Isn't it a commonplace that the n x m translation problem is best solved
by having a common intermediate? This seems more efficient when 

m+n < n*m 

it seems that only those with sufficient muscle can force this on the
world eg Sun/IBM/M$. They can clearly see the need to support only one
backend. 

Funnily enough they kept telling me that as soon as I switched to
F99/C++ etc etc that everything would be portable. Now the buzz is
C#/Mono or Java, and perhaps Parrot. As long as the wheels keep turning
and the $'s flow they'll keep promising the next sliced bread.
-- 
Robin Becker


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov  6 15:30:04 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 12:30:04 -0800
Subject: Long overflow problem
References: <bondpaper-55CDDD.13105906112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DC97BCC.2B3E3780@alcyone.com>

Tom wrote:

> OverflowError: Long int too long to convert to int.
> 
> I can't seem to get myFunc to understand that i and j are long
> integers.
> How would I go about doing this?

Somewhere in myFunc, you're either explicitly or implicitly attempting
to convert a long to an int.  Without seeing the code we can't tell you
where.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ We are victims of our circumstance.
\__/ Sade Adu
    Crank Dot Net / http://www.crank.net/
 Cranks, crackpots, kooks, & loons on the Net.


From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Thu Nov 28 04:12:27 2002
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:12:27 +0100
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it> <3DE49BB7.80D199FB@jandecaluwe.com> <3DE592FC.6020101@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <3DE5DDFB.ED92B656@jandecaluwe.com>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> 
> 
> I probably haven't explained this very well -- it all
> tends to get rather brain-exploding, and I may have
> got some details wrong. See PEPs 253 and 254 for the
> full story (but mind your brain).

PEP 254 is a piece of cake!
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0254.html

(Or does it live somewhere else?)

Regards, Jan

--
Jan Decaluwe 
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com


From fgeiger at datec.at  Thu Nov 21 07:40:14 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:40:14 +0100
Subject: Mirror of Python Cookbook
References: <pan.2002.11.20.17.08.46.349629.2476@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <3ddcd41e@news.swissonline.ch>

I own the paper mirror. To be on the safe side I've mirrored the AS CookBook
locally on my notebook with help of www.tenmax.com.

Cheers
Franz


"Thomas Guettler" <pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:pan.2002.11.20.17.08.46.349629.2476 at thomas-guettler.de...
> Hi!
>
> Is there a mirror of the python cookbook?
>
> It has a lot of great recipes, I don't want to
> miss them if the sever is down.
>
>  thomas
>
> --
> Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
> http://www.thomas-guettler.de




From bloke at ii.net  Thu Nov  7 05:11:49 2002
From: bloke at ii.net (Rob Hall)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 02:11:49 -0800
Subject: pyqt threading problems unstable
Message-ID: <3dc95b0b$0$12984@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

I have an app in pyqt that calls multiple python threads.

Basically, I have two concurrent threads which feed a consumer thread.  This
consumer thread then feeds the qt gui.

The problem is when I open more than 2 of these gui objects, one of them
dies with no error.  Eventually they will all die.

I only have the one thread talking to qt (as per the docs) which is the
consumer thread attached to the two producer threads.  They communicate via
a system of signals.

The producer threads call wait() for a predetermined time (eg 15 seconds),
do some processing, and then call a signal method (eg sigDataChanged(data))
on the producer to inform the changes.

Is this a flakey way of going about things? as I am getting pretty
frustrated.  Or is the pyqt threading flakey?


Rob




From gumuz at looze.net  Fri Nov 22 05:32:47 2002
From: gumuz at looze.net (Gumuz)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:32:47 +0100
Subject: you might care :)
Message-ID: <3dde1125$0$811$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=20259
&ixReplies=10


guyon




From josiah7 at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 23 21:18:27 2002
From: josiah7 at hotmail.com (Josiah)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 18:18:27 -0800
Subject: Repost: Tkinter Checkbox Question
Message-ID: <b4d1dd0c.0211231818.577e0929@posting.google.com>

What am I doing wrong in this sample? When I press the "status"
button, the printout shows that "self.var.get()" returns a "0" weather
the box is checked or not! Is this a Bug in Tkinter? Help please.
Thanks!
josiah


#######################################################################
from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()

class App:

    def __init__(self, master):  

        frame = Frame(master) 
        frame.grid()
              
        self.var = IntVar() 
        self.CButton = Checkbutton(frame,text="check",variable=self.var)
        self.CButton.grid()

        self.buttonGo = Button(frame, text= "status", command=self.go)
        self.buttonGo.grid()

    def go(self):
        print self.var.get() 

app = App(root)
root.mainloop()
#######################################################################


From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  8 10:08:00 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:08:00 -0000
Subject: Guile is yet another aspirant to universality (was: A vision for Parrot)
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <mailman.1036617428.29604.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <usnkqgbqql1p32@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.1036617428.29604.python-list at python.org>,
Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I don't think this is really correct -- I think it was mostly because
>Tcl was a lame language, and was being pushed as an application
>scripting language.  Of course, Lisp is close to RMS's heart, which is
>why the FSF proposed Scheme as an alternative over other languages. 
>Simplicity was always essential for an application scripting language,
>which is probably why Perl wasn't a serious contender.  It was also a
			.
		[plenty more]
			.
			.
Also, at that time it wasn't clear that Perl could
serve as an extension language in the sense that
mortals could learn how to embed it.

'Fact, I don't think it's obvious right now.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  8 11:34:04 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:34:04 -0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <270c68fe.0211071328.49f8abd@posting.google.com> <3DCB2EAF.DEE7D6B6@alcyone.com> <mailman.1036768752.22350.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <usnprs7m61eg64@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.1036768752.22350.python-list at python.org>,
Carel Fellinger  <carel.fellinger at chello.nl> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Then, then:)  Some odd twenty years ago some serious money was spent
>to prove Esperanto suited to be *the interlingua* for computer based
>natural language translation.  Being readable was its main advantage:)
			.
			.
			.
That approach seems to me even better favored
in an XML-frenzied time such as ours.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From tismer at tismer.com  Fri Nov  1 05:09:31 2002
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:09:31 +0100
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg>
Message-ID: <3DC252DB.8090506@tismer.com>

hope wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> If i am to develop a full fledge commercial application using Python :
> 
> a. Can i compile my python source into binary ? I have read about py2exe for
> windows. Is there one for Linux ?
> 
> b. Can I distribute the bytecode only (.pyo, .pyd) and not the source (.py)
> ? Can the bytecode be 'de-compiled' to source ?

In addition to Alex' reply with which I totally agree:
Using the Installer gives you the advantage that
no source code can be seen and even no bytecode
is visible in the first place. It is of course ungzipped
from the executable at execution time, but there are
no visible files, it is in memory, only.
That means, the average user will not be able to read
your source, and the bytecode is not so easy to access.

This doesn't provide safety against true hackers, but
this doesn't exist by definition.

There is one way to do some more obfuscation of the
bytecode which comes for quite cheap and raises the
fence for disasseblers a little:
You can easily create a Python interpreter with permuted
opcodes. You can even use a different interpreter for
every customer. There are lots of variations of this
principle. But it isn't really strong, since the opcodes
can be guessed by a statistical approach, or disassembling
the interpreter.
The problem is that it doesn't take long
until somebody publishes a tool to disassemble it
again, and then those kiddies who think they are
hackers just because they know to use a tool come
into the play.

Some promising idea which I didn't try yet is to combine
the opcode permutation idea with redundancy: Create
many versions of the same functions, which slightly
changed behavior and slightly different opcodes.
Make a huge code bloat out of this, with just a small
percentage of "real" code. The idea is to confuse
the hacker by myriads of similar, slightly different
objects, and by a reasonable total size of the code
that might make him give up earlier.

Yet another way of obfuscation would be to use compilers
like Psyco, and store the compiled code instead of the
.pyc data. This would make the disassembly reasonably
harder. AFAIK, Psyco isn't ready yet to produce
executables, but I guess this will be an option pretty
soon.

but-open-source-is-so-much-more-fun - ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 10 16:28:43 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:28:43 -0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <aqmj2e$k0g$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:

> Recently, I wrote a number-crunching program in Lisp. A typical
> function in which look something like this:
> 
> (defun Hpp (x s z)
>   #i(sqrt(Vpp(x s z)-gamma)/(x^2+s^4) -
>      exp(sin(Tpp(x s))/(2*b1(x s)))))
> 
> (Incidentally, Lisp's _syntax_ made it possible for me to write a
> macro which automatically re-structures my numerical functions in a
> way which makes the program run 17 times faster.)

Would you care to elaborate a bit? I'm honestly interested. Please keep in 
mind that I:

- know next to zero about lisp
- have a pretty solid scientific computing background (I see you're from CERN, 
I do lattice qcd).

So please be gentle on the lisp, which is what I'm interested in learning 
about, but don't pull any punches on the numerics. I want to know 
_specifically_ what kinds of transformations you were able to perform to 
enhance the performance of your numerical code.

> Continuing the clisp session from above:
> 
>   [2]> (/ 2 3)
>   2/3
>   [3]> (+ 1 2/3)
>   5/3
>   [4]> (sqrt -1)
>   #C(0 1)
> 
> Hmm ...
> 
>   jacek > python2.2
>   Python 2.2.1 (#3, Jun  4 2002, 09:56:27)
>   [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
>   Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>   >>> import math
>   >>> math.sqrt(-1)
>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>     File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   ValueError: math domain error
>   >>> 2/3
>   0
>   >>> 1 + 2/3
>   1
> 
> ... perhaps Python was invented before math and rational and complex
> numbers (yes, I *do* know Python has complex numbers, just FUDding in
> your style, yes I *do* know that integer division is Python is being
> fixed).

Indeed, Python's complex and rational number support is pretty lousy, and a 
frequent source of frustration to me. I don't expect tensors or groups to be 
basic data types of a language, but rational and complex numbers _should_ 
have been there from day 1.

I have a question for you (keeping in mind what I said above about my 
background in HEP, moving these days towards algorithm development). Could 
you try to outline what things someone like me would benefit from in Lisp? 
The full extent of my lisp experience is modifying my .emacs file :) While I 
admit that the parenthesis issue annoyed me a bit, I know full well that if I 
can find in the language a significant benefit, I'll get over that in one 
afternoon.

I've become a huge python fan recently (out of Pascal, C, C++, Perl, IDL, 
Fortran,... I like it best). But I'm _honestly_ interested in learning a bit 
about what Lisp brings to the table. Specifically, what is there in Lisp 
which is natural/possible which is in python difficult/impossible, with an 
eye towards numerical/scientific computing? I know they are both Turing 
complete, but that point is moot. If I cared about it I'd be writing in 
assembly.

I'd very much appreciate an overview of this by you or anyone else with a good 
lisp background. Just to reiterate that I'm _not_ interested in a language 
flamewar:

- I don't care about the parentheses. Enough jokes have been made about that 
already.

- I'm not bashing python. I probably won't abandon pyhton for a long long 
time.

It just seems that jumping into lisp has a considerable initial investment, 
and I'd like to get an overview of its benefits before I decide whether to 
make that investment myself.

Thank you.

Regards,

Fernando.


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Sat Nov 16 10:13:14 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 15:13:14 GMT
Subject: Python instead of php
References: <pan.2002.11.16.12.25.12.658252@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <slrnatco4a.1tq.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Marten Bauer wrote:
> Hello to ya all,
> 
> i use python for programming a database (postgresql) project. 
> The Systeminterfaces are written in python and the Userinterface 
> (web based) is written in html/php.
> 
> Is it possible to use python like php as script language to writte
> the Userinterfaces also in html and python?

Of course. Wether or not "using Python like PHP" i. e. using
code-in-html is a good idea is another interesting question. [1]

> Is modpython for apache or Twisted from Tweak Labroratory a possible
> way?

Both are tools that can help you doing so. But both Twisted.Web and
mod_python are pretty low-level. You'll probably need an additional
library to do the usual stuff like session handling for you.

Of course, there are complete web application frameworks, Webware only
being one of them. You might want to take a look at this Wiki page:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming for the
overwhelming possibilites.

There are several solutions that come pretty close to PHP, for example
Spyce (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/Spyce).

-- Gerhard

[1] http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PresentationTechnologies


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sat Nov 23 03:52:11 2002
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:52:11 +1000 (est)
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
In-Reply-To: <15838.44342.601039.771176@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0211231851070.60481-100000@tenring.andymac.org>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Skip Montanaro wrote:

> You should be able to build from source and run against the not-installed
> interpreter.  The default (unless the FreeBSD folks muck with the configure
> settings) should be to build --with-pymalloc.

defaulting to --with-pymalloc starts with 2.3.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From pds at quadstone.com  Tue Nov  5 08:19:57 2002
From: pds at quadstone.com (pds at quadstone.com)
Date: Tue,  5 Nov 2002 08:19:57 -0500
Subject: parenthesis
In-Reply-To: <20021105053601.725.65560.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021105053601.725.65560.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <1036502397.3dc7c57d67520@bostonmail.quadstone.com>

> On 4 Nov 2002 22:05:11 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
> 
> >On 4 Nov 2002 12:24:31 -0800, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:
> >
> >>Suppose I want to parse the following expression:
> >>
> >>>>> exp='(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
> >>
> >>I want to extract the first part, i.e. '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)'.
> >>

The method I've used in perl (! sorry, new to python :) with some success is to 
generalize your routine that tracks the nesting level but actually modifies the 
string to insert escaped versions of the parens.  ie. call with something like:

escape_paren('(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)','()') 

where second arg is optional two character string with the opening and closing 
brackets.

this returns a string like:

'<QL0>a*<QL1>b+c*<QL2>2-x<QR2><QR1>+d<QR0>+f<QL0>s1<QR0>'

then you can do whatever you like with regexp, and call an inverse routine

unescape_paren(escaped_str,'()')

to put back the parens (obviously the routines also need to handle (un)escaping 
things that look like escaped parens).

Patrick




From p.nilsson at xtra.co.nz  Sun Nov 24 16:52:36 2002
From: p.nilsson at xtra.co.nz (Paul Nilsson)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:52:36 +0100
Subject: sockets and encryption
References: <6pintugofjalm0sbg1u2g4q91bdonmbupk@4ax.com> <Xns92CCE6B5DD840cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <cei2uu08bgodub1a8p2qlps6g2mcmga3od@4ax.com>

On 20 Nov 2002 22:39:28 +0200, an infinite amount of monkeys hijacked
the computer of Chris Liechti <cliechti at gmx.net> and wrote:

>> It's not really to difficult to code this up, however I really don't
>> want to re-invent the wheel here.
>
>sure and with pycrypto it's realy easy. however getting something _secure_ 
>is an other task (making it attack proof). 
>
>http://pyssh.sourceforge.net/
>http://www.amk.ca/python/code/crypto.html
>

Thanks Chris, it looks like pycrypto will do the trick for me.



From missive at frontiernet.net  Tue Nov  5 17:27:14 2002
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 22:27:14 -0000
Subject: exec '' in {}    what does this do?
Message-ID: <usghe23e6gel34@corp.supernews.com>

Hi;

I am reading about type-class unification at:
http://python.org/2.2/descrintro.html

Right near the start, it talks about subclassing builtin types,
but I do not think this question really involves that. It is
more about this piece of code:

    >>> print a.keys()
    [1, 2]
    >>> exec "x = 3; print x" in a
    3
    >>> print a.keys()
    ['__builtins__', 1, 2, 'x']

where a is a dict (well, actually subclassed from dict, but I
tried it with a regular {} and it does the same thing).

What is happening here? I am totally lost.

I thought "in" checked to see if a key was in the dict,
I do not understand why this inserts anything in to the dict.

Any wisdom appreciated.



From 2002 at weholt.org  Sat Nov  2 18:15:30 2002
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 23:15:30 GMT
Subject: Question about using Distutils
Message-ID: <m0Zw9.71$P35.2772@news2.ulv.nextra.no>

I got a setup.py script for my package. If I use python setup.py
bdist_wininst the created executable have a filestructure of
PURELIB/somefolder/somefile etc. If I use python setup.py bdist I get the
entire filestructure, like /program files/python/lib/somefolder/somefile. I
just want the somefolder/*.* part. Anyway of controlling this ??

Best regards,
Thomas




From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Fri Nov 29 05:16:35 2002
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:16:35 +0000
Subject: [Tkinter] text widget update problem
In-Reply-To: <as4pfu$ntvsk$1@ID-28938.news.dfncis.de>
References: <as4pfu$ntvsk$1@ID-28938.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <1038564996.1182.1.camel@m-franklin>

On Thu, 2002-11-28 at 10:01, Thomas Rademacher wrote:
> Hallo,
> 
> I want to write a text widget which can be filled step by step in dependent
> on program sequence:
> ...
> scrollbar = Scrollbar(frameMsg, orient=VERTICAL)
> scrollbar.pack(fill=Y, side=RIGHT)
> text = Text(frameMsg, bd=0,font='courier 8', width=960, height=450,
> fg="black")
> text.pack()
> text.config(yscrollcommand=scrollbar.set)
> scrollbar.config(command=text.yview)
> ...
> 
> The input of the text widget I create in a singleton logger class:
> ...
> Logging.__msgHandle.insert(END, logString)
> Logging.__msgHandle.update()  <--
> ...
> 
> I want to see the the output step by step during program sequence. But I
> have following problems:
> 1. With Logging.__msgHandle.update() I get a program crash when all lines in
> the widget filled. The widget does not show the following messages.
> 2. Without  Logging.__msgHandle.update() I get the my program output at the
> end of the program and not step by step.
> 
> How can I resolve the problem? Who has any ideas? It is a singleton class
> problem?
> Thank's for your hints, Thomas
> 
> 

Are you calling update() from the main thread (you don't mention threads
but I am guessing you are using them)  Could you post a cut down version
that demonstrates the problem?  I have had problems with calling
update() from another thread.....



Cheers
Martin





From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Mon Nov  4 10:39:42 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:39:42 -0000 
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDA9A@intrepid>

> >Hmm. Well, Java is my day job, and I've been using Eclipse for a year
> >or so.  For me, the refactorings work just fine. Now, I've not used
> >EMACS, so I can't do a comparison, but Eclipse's refactorings are a
> >*whole* lot better that doing refactoring with a 'dumb' text editor.
> 
> Perfect.  So which is easier: Python or Java?
 
Python.

I *like* questions with one word answers.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From s997659 at ee.cuhk.edu.hk  Wed Nov 13 10:41:24 2002
From: s997659 at ee.cuhk.edu.hk (Geiger Ho)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:41:24 +0800
Subject: just some share of experience of learning Python
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132338190.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk>

Very often, we hear many say that it is very difficult to learn Python.

This time I have some things share with you all. (I'm still newbie. If I'm
wrong, just point it out.)

In Python, I think you need to know what behinds an object. Say, in module
sys, there is a modules object. This modules object is actually a
dictionary in Python. So think what you can do with a dictionary in
Python. And that all you can do with sys.modules. In the Python document,
it just tells you sys.modules is a dictionary. It assumes you know the
operations of dictionary in Python. Ha~~ I now know why in Python
Tutorial, it teaches me dictionary. And all other data type actually
builds from certain base class in Python! Also, you can type
"dir(sys.modules)" to find what you can do with it. You will get the same
result by typing "dir(dict)".


Regards,
Geiger



From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Tue Nov 12 19:50:00 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:50:00 +1300
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqltkt$14s$1@news.hccnet.nl> <76c4da8e.0211101357.6a804d20@posting.google.com> <3dd165fb$0$63910$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <3DD1A1B8.6010400@something.invalid>

Jens Axel S?gaard wrote:

> I guess the choice fell on Algol 60 because it were a significant programming
> language that influenced a lot of languages. It's "the mother of all lexically scoped
> bloak languages".

   ^^^^^

I suppose a "bloke language" is what Real Programmers use...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From strombrg at tesuji.nac.uci.edu  Fri Nov 15 15:34:24 2002
From: strombrg at tesuji.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 20:34:24 GMT
Subject: bind problem
References: <ar3bht$11c$1@news.service.uci.edu> <pan.2002.11.15.20.02.26.549858.710@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <ar3log$6f0$1@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <pan.2002.11.15.20.02.26.549858.710 at thomas-guettler.de>,
Thomas Guettler  <pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de> wrote:
<On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:40:13 +0100, Dan Stromberg wrote:
<
<> I'm still having my previously-mentioned problem binding sockets in
<> python 2.2.  Things are fine on linux, but they don't work on solaris -
<> some solaris hosts, not all, I think.
<> 
<> I'm approaching the group again about it, because I've run across
<> another, much smaller program with the same problem - in fact it's so
<> small, but I think it'll be ok to post it here in its entirety.
<> 
<> The error I get with 2.2.1 is:
<> 
<> Traceback (most recent call last):
<>   File "/tmp/packetpasser", line 108, in ?
<>     main()
<>   File "/tmp/packetpasser", line 60, in main
<>     sockin.bind(('',read_from))
<> socket.gaierror: (3, 'getaddrinfo failed')
<
<"getaddrinfo failed" sounds like you can't resolve 
<the dns-name of a machine to its ip-address.
<
<does "nslookup machine" work?
<
<Does it work if you use ip-adresses instead?
<
< thomas

It appears to be binding the local socket that is failing, rather than
the remote socket.  I tried giving an IP address for the remote socket
anyway, but it didn't seem to help.  nslookup/dig finds the address
ok, and it runs ok on a redhat host.

sockin.bind('',read_from) gives the error mentioned above.

sockin.bind('localhost',read_from) doesn't give an error, but fails to
listen on the specified port.

sockin.bind('127.0.0.1',read_from) exhibits the same behavior as
sockin.bind('localhost',readfrom).

I've been under the impression that '' was supposed to be localhost,
but it does seem to be behaving differently.

Thanks much for your response.
-- 
Dan Stromberg                                               UCI/NACS/DCS


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Mon Nov 11 11:09:27 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:09:27 +0100
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqokmr$lgb$1@news.netpower.no>

"Pittaya" <a_human_work at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8 at posting.google.com...
> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
> a single line of code.
>
> perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
>
> can python do something like this?

No, I don't think you can make a loop that continuously prints out anything
within a single line (and without defining another function).

But can perl do something like this:

a, b = 1, 1
while 1 :
    a, b = b+a, a
    print a

It does the same thing - the big difference is in readability.  Why you
might want to do this on a single line is beyond me.





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Nov 10 03:01:45 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 09:01:45 +0100
Subject: PyUnit lacks gravity?
References: <Uzmz9.610328$nE3.53618@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <m37kflc0pi.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Hugh Beyer" <beyer at incent.com> writes:

>   File "C:\PYTHON21\Tools\idle\PyShell.py", line 676, in write
>     self.shell.write(s, self.tags)
>   File "C:\PYTHON21\Tools\idle\PyShell.py", line 662, in write
>     self.text.mark_gravity("iomark", "right")
> AttributeError: 'None' object has no attribute 'mark_gravity'
> 
> Last I checked, gravity here was Earth normal. I'm running unitttest.main()
> to set up the suite, but I get the same error if I create and run the test
> suite myself. Any ideas what's going wrong? 

Study the traceback! This is in IDLE, not in unittest. self.text is
None. 

This happens when somebody closes sys.stdout, in IDLE: future writes
to sys.stdout fail. Now, I cannot guess why sys.stdout was closed in
your case; you should modify IDLE to raise an exception in close, to
see where the close originates from.

Regards,
Martin


From costanza at web.de  Mon Nov 11 18:39:03 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:39:03 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqjr09$qbg$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <slrnasr9v1.267f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <tyfof8x1rkf.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <aqmqma$nsd$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <tyfvg34zeku.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1037052618.20223.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqpf2i$7i9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Neil Schemenauer wrote:
> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> 
>>I beg to differ.
>>
>>You *can* use Lisp as a Python-with-s-expressions. Once you get over
>>the parentheses (let's not argue whether one can get over them or
>>not), it really is very simple, if you stick to the simple things. 
> 
> Show me the Lisp code that corresponds to the Python code:
> 
>     float(somestring)
> 
> 'read' does't count since the string could have come from an evil
> outside source.  

 > (let ((*read-eval* nil))
     (with-input-from-string (s "3.1415927")
       (read s)))
3.1415927

Ugly because of the *read-eval* bit, but if you know that your string 
does not come from an evil source you're safe to leave it out. The nice 
thing here is that you don't need to know in advance what kind of datum 
you get.

 > How do I write
> 
>     def escape(s):
>         s = s.replace("&", "&amp;")
>         s = s.replace("<", "&lt;")
>         s = s.replace(">", "&gt;")
>         s = s.replace('"', "&quot;")
>         return s
> 
> plainly and efficiently in Lisp?

(defun escape (s)
   (with-output-to-string (out)
     (with-input-from-string (in s)
       (loop while (listen in)
             do (let ((char (read-char in)))
                  (case char
                    (#\& (write-string "&amp;" out))
                    (#\< (write-string "&lt;" out))
                    (#\> (write-string "&gt;" out))
                    (#\" (write-string "&quot;" out))
                    (otherwise (write-char char out))))))))

* with-output-to-string declares out as an output stream. It returns 
whatever has been written to out as a string.

* listen determines whether there are still data left to be read on the 
given stream.

* This solution is inherently more efficient because it traverses the 
input exactly once, whereas your solution traverses the input four times.

>     import socket
>     s = socket.socket()
>     s.connect(("localhost", 13))
>     print s.recv(1024)
>     s.close()

Common Lisp doesn't have a standardized socket library and I don't know 
enough about those that are available.


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From gerald.hein at epost.de  Sun Nov 10 13:27:48 2002
From: gerald.hein at epost.de (Gerald Hein)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:27:48 +0100
Subject: wxPython and console window
Message-ID: <3DCEA524.70100@epost.de>

Hi,

I'm completely new to Python. I've choosen to use wxPython as GUI.

Running a Python GUI-application (and using wxPython), is there any 
possibility to suppress the python console window ?

Thanks,
Gerald



From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Mon Nov 18 18:49:21 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:49:21 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E6CC95@mail.hebmex.com>
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E6CC95@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <200211182349.PAA30274@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Monday 18 November 2002 15:02, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

> It's like comparing strings: first the first char,
> then the second, etc.

Exactly, and what makes it easy to remember is that list, tuple, and string 
comparison are all done in the same way:

def all_true( abc, abd, bvd ):
    return ( (abd > abc)
             and (abd >= abc)
            and (abd >= abd)
            and (not (abd > abd))
            and (bvd > abc)
            and (bvd >= abc) )

# Comparisons are the same using strings, tuples, or lists
print all_true( "abc", "abd", "bvd" )
print all_true( tuple("abc"), tuple("abd"), tuple("bvd") )
print all_true( list("abc"), list("abd"), list("bvd") )


-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From andrew.markebo at telia.com  Fri Nov  8 04:12:05 2002
From: andrew.markebo at telia.com (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:12:05 GMT
Subject: ftplib two server "proxy" support
References: <4rashloo.fsf@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <m31y5w77dm.fsf@flognat.myip.org>

/ gcash <gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com> wrote:
| Is there anyone who's done support for the 2 server model of the FTP
| RFC-959, the thing that most UNIX FTP clients call "PROXY" ??
|
| I'm talking about Figure 2 in Section 2.3 of RFC-959 and *NOT* a firewall
| or other type of intermediate proxy.

When reading the ftplib source of Python 2.2 I find a function ftpcp
that seems to do this..

     /Andy

-- 
 The eye of the beholder rests on the beauty!


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 13 18:36:59 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 23:36:59 GMT
Subject: [regexp] Where's the error in this ini-file reading regexp?
References: <3dd2a254@news.swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <aqunmr$iap$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:05:15 +0100, "F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote:

>Dear all,
>
>I have to parse a string which contains data in ini-file-format, i.e.:
>
>   s = \
>'''
>[Section 1]
>Key11=Value11
>Key12=Value12
>Key13=Value13
>[Section 2]
>Key21=Value21
>Key22=Value22
>Key23=Value23
>'''
>
>I decided to try a solution using re (yes, ConfigParser or simple string
>splitting would be an other way to do it), because the structure really is
>regular: Sections, which contain key/value pairs.
>
>I'm sure there's only a tiny step left to succeed.
>
>I tried:
>
>rex = re.compile(r"(\s*(\[.+\])(\s*((.+)=(.+)))+?)",
>re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE)
>L = rex.findall(s)
>
>where s is the string already shown above.
>
>What I get is:
>
>[('\n[Section 1]\nKey11=Value11', '[Section 1]', '\nKey11=Value11', \
>'Key11=Value11', 'Key11', 'Value11'), ('\n[Section 2]\nKey21=Value21', \
>'[Section 2]', '\nKey21=Value21', 'Key21=Value21', 'Key21', 'Value21')]
>
>So L[0][1] contains the string 'Section1', L[0][4] the string 'Key11',
>L[0][5] the string 'Value11'.
>Section2 is also there and is contained by L[1].
>
>So what I have is both sections, but only one (i.e. the first one) key/value
>pair for each of those two sections.
>
>When I remove the last '?' in ...(.+=.+))+?)" then the last key/value pair
>instead of the first one is the result. So this must have to do with
>greediness/non-greediness. What I wonder is, why do I not get all three
>key/value pairs? How can I tell the re engine "gimme *all* groups having
>key=value form", when a '+' delivers only the last, and '+?' only the first
>of those pairs?

Assuming you want to do the whole thing with an re, maybe this would be more useful?
(the "if 1:" was so I could copy/paste without reindenting)

 >>> if 1:
 ...    s = \
 ... '''
 ... [Section 1]
 ... Key11=Value11
 ... Key12=Value12
 ... Key13=Value13
 ... [Section 2]
 ... Key21=Value21
 ... Key22=Value22
 ... Key23=Value23
 ... '''
 ...
 >>> import re
 >>> rx = re.compile(r"^\s*(\[.+\]\s*$)|^\s*(.+?)=(.+)$", re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE)
 >>> rx.findall(s)
 [('[Section 1]', '', ''), ('', 'Key11', 'Value11'), ('', 'Key12', 'Value12'), ('', 'Key13', 'Val
 ue13'), ('[Section 2]', '', ''), ('', 'Key21', 'Value21'), ('', 'Key22', 'Value22'), ('', 'Key23
 ', 'Value23')]

or, easier to see:

 >>> for t in rx.findall(s): print t
 ...
 ('[Section 1]', '', '')
 ('', 'Key11', 'Value11')
 ('', 'Key12', 'Value12')
 ('', 'Key13', 'Value13')
 ('[Section 2]', '', '')
 ('', 'Key21', 'Value21')
 ('', 'Key22', 'Value22')
 ('', 'Key23', 'Value23')

which should be easy to process sequentially, checking for new section names in t[0],
and otherwise having t[1] and t[2]. BTW t[1] made non-greedy should check for the
first '='. You might want to check if spaces should be included in the end of a key and
beginning of a value, otherwise you might want \s*=\s* where = is now. Similarly with $
if you want to trim possible trailing blanks and use \s*$ (I kept your leading blank trim).




Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov  6 14:56:28 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 14:56:28 -0500
Subject: segmentation fault when unpickling an object in another Python instance
References: <3DC96AAD.9090503@web.de>
Message-ID: <eAWdnTH219An7FSgXTWcqA@comcast.com>

"Raik Gruenberg" <graik at web.de> wrote in message
news:3DC96AAD.9090503 at web.de...

> I have got some home-made class. From within the same Python
interpreter
>   I can create, dump and load it back without any problem. But, if I
try
> to load it after re-starting the interpreter, I end up with a
> segmentation fault.
>
> Example (Traj is the trouble maker, Load and Dump are just wrappers
for
> cPickle.load and dump):
>
> from Traj import Traj
> from tools import Load, Dump
>
> t = Traj(['../test/lig.pdb'], '../test/lig.pdb')
>
> Dump( t, 't.t' )
>
> -----
> ... NOW RESTART PYTHON ...
> -----
>
>  >>> from tools import *
>  >>> Load( 't.t' )
>
> Process Python segmentation fault
>
> It's all the same regardless whether I use Python 2.2 or 2.1.
Switching
> to pickle.load and dump doesn't change anything either. However,
only
> this particular class is affected.
>
> Given the segmentation fault, at least, some sort of Python bug must
be
> involved, right?

Yes, it remains Guido intention that CPython never seg fault.

> Obviously, it is also somewhat the fault of this
> particular class. I narrowed down the problem somewhat. But, before
> bothering you with all the details, perhaps anyone knows this
problem or
> has some promising idea???

There have been some known problems with CPickle and some patches, but
in the absence of keyword searching of the SourceForge database, I
won't guess as to specifics and relation to your problem.  You may be
asked for minimum example that exhibits problem.

TJR




From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 13 18:38:56 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:38:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037159000.15424.python-list@python.org> <aqsoo7$v8$1@wheel2.two14.net> <fzqA9.3825$744.130672@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aqunqg$qj$5@wheel2.two14.net>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
> I've found myself wishing for "set-and-test" basically in ONE
> kind of situation: when I was transcribing algorithms coded in
> languages that used that form, such as C.  In such cases, of
> course, it's trivially easy to build and use set-and-test, see:
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66061

AKA recipe 1.9 in the paper edition, yes.  I'm afraid I don't like it much
at all.  I'm also afraid that after all these years my brain thinks, in some
contexts, in C idioms.  Mind you, I'm pretty sure most othem were just how I
thought (or wrote pseduocode anyway) long before I encountered C, but
operator= may well be an exception.



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 27 16:30:15 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:30:15 -0600
Subject: Nastiness with global vars. How do I avoid?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.11.27.21.03.24.346951@owl.me.uk> ("Rich Daley"'s
 message of "Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:03:24 +0000")
References: <pan.2002.11.27.21.03.24.346951@owl.me.uk>
Message-ID: <m2of8a66qg.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Rich" == Rich Daley <rich at DELETE_THISowl.me.uk> writes:

    Rich> Does anyone have any idea how I could use a Class instead to
    Rich> acheive the same functionality? Ideally I'd love to have
    Rich> classes for all the different kinds of methods and stuff
    Rich> too, but this is the most critical bit.


Often times a borg comes to the rescue when you are inclined to use a
global.

  http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66531

If you are familiar with the concept of a singleton, this will make
sense to you.  If not, a little background reading will shed some
light.

Search google for:

   singleton design pattern


John Hunter



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Nov 25 01:11:07 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:11:07 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <yfsznrya1tn.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>; from a.schmolck@gmx.net on Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 01:13:40AM +0000
References: <mailman.1038097779.22927.python-list@python.org> <yfslm3ibyb7.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <yfsznrya1tn.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20021125071107.P11257@prim.han.de>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> writes:
> > would be often quite useful and being able to write
> > 
> >   for i, elt in seq.items():...
> [damn, accidently deleted a line]
> 
> ... would also have removed much of the need for the new enumerate (2.3) builtin.

i somewhat agree.  At the time, GvR said "Don't go there" when
the suggestions came of "unifying" items for dicts and lists. 
As the new enumerate works for iterators as well i can partially
see the point, now.  Still i'd think that beeing able to say

    for i, elt in whatever.items():
        ...

and have it work with mappings and lists would be nice.  
As it stands mappings and sequence are simply not considered
(by python-dev people) similar enough to make this view a priority. 

    holger



From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov  5 09:15:38 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:15:38 GMT
Subject: Python2.1->2.2 broke my thread/signal code?
References: <aq2rd7$2mc8$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>
Message-ID: <m2fzugm7ai.fsf@python.net>

Hugo van der Merwe <s13361562 at spammenot.bach.sun.ac.za> writes:

> I have some code starting ogg123 in a new thread, I then send signals 
> (SIGTERM. Clearly the code is "wrong", since it didn't survive the 2.1->2.2 
> upgrade. What should I change? What am I doing wrong?

You're using threads, signals *and* fork?  This is a recipe for
confusion!

The problem is that it's not the main thread calling fork().  Non-main
threads get a sigmask that blocks out just about everything and when
you exec() ogg123, the child inherits the sigmask.  I think.

Getting the main thread to do the exec()s is probably easiest (have it
wait on a Queue.Queue, exec() what it pops off and push the pid back
onto another queue?).

I wrote a sigprocmask interface for Python 2.3, but it's currently
disabled because it's x-platform behaviour was inscrutable.  (I'm
guessing from the fact that your code ever worked, you're on linux?).

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  It could be argued that since Suitespot is infinitely terrible,
  that anything else, by very definition of being anything else,
  is infinitely superior.                -- ".", alt.sysadmin.recovery


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Mon Nov 11 12:11:12 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:11:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PEP #99484663
In-Reply-To: <m2adkguq3e.fsf@desk.crynwr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211110853180.24362-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 11 Nov 2002, Russell Nelson wrote:

> Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> writes:
> 
> > You don't hear of long-time Python users complaining about the indentation
> > thing; it's a newbie/first impression issue. Not only do I like it as a
> > feature, I see it as an open-mindedness filter: people who are willing to
> > consider that something a little different than "normal" might be good
> > stick around to give Python a try, others quickly move on to something
> > more palatable without wasting too much of their own time (they would have
> > probably been unhappy with Python anyway).
> 
> Could be.  Depends on whether you think people reject Python because
> it has many unusual features, or because they reject significant
> indentation.

>From what I've seen, it's neither - instead it's an irrational, knee-jerk 
reaction to something different. If they stick around long enough to try 
it out, they generally discover that their fears were unfounded and/or 
exaggerated.

Some people choose not to use Python for good reasons - it's not the best
tool for every job - but indentation isn't one of those good reasons.

> This feature eliminates "significant indentation" as a
> reason to reject Python.

Perhaps, but I still assert it's a poor reason anyway, so why respond to
it by changing the language? Why put lots of effort into soothing
irrational gripes? A better use of effort is in education or something 
else that helps them "see the light".

Plus, my original response was that it doesn't make sense to change the 
language to suit people who don't even like the language, especially when 
it risks alienating those who like, use, and support the language. For 
example, suppose you wrote your code using this "optional" block delimiter 
and then we fired you <wink> and so now I take ownership of all your code. 
Doh! I find it extremely annoying to have to read and maintain that code!

-Dave




From threeseas at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 24 11:34:56 2002
From: threeseas at earthlink.net (Timothy Rue)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:34:56 GMT
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net><743utuoi3l31t8e8tt9v3sncosuk2gqi02@4ax.com><1239.92T1047T4844497threeseas@earthlink.net><mailman.1038067952.28943.python-list@python.org><4992.92T2618T9825720threeseas@earthlink.net> <mailman.1038089193.29900.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9655.93T1847T6905169threeseas@earthlink.net>

On 23-Nov-02 17:05:04 John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> "Timothy" == Timothy Rue <threeseas at earthlink.net> writes:


>    Timothy> In summary what you are saying is that there is a tower
>    Timothy> of babel between not only client and coder but between
>    Timothy> languages as well. The result of this is that anyone in
>    Timothy> the position of a client really needs to learn the
>    Timothy> details of whatever specific language, including any
>    Timothy> other specifics of the use of a language, such as
>    Timothy> platform dependant issues, before they consider hiring a
>    Timothy> coder to produce, what the client designs. Otherwise how
>    Timothy> the hell is the client to communicate to the coder what
>    Timothy> the fuck they want?

>When I was a graduate student trying to build some electronics, I
>would frequently head up to the electronics shop where a super hard
>core guru resided; he could build PET scanners by hand.  I would say I
>needed capacitor A and switch B.  We'd search through all his drawers
>looking for the part I needed and if we couldn't find it, he'd say,
>will capacitor C do instead?  I'd say, hell, I don't know, you're the
>expert.  And he'd say, well, what are you trying to do?  I'd tell him
>what I was trying and he would say, 'No no no, you don't need any of
>that.  What you need to do is this'.

In other words you were not a graduate student of electronics.

>This scenario was repeated many times, and it took me a long time to
>learn that when you are the client, you need to tell them what you
>need to do, not how to do it.

Not in this case, for I cannot do that. It'd simply take to long for me to
give all the infinte examples of possibilities. Therefore that only leaves
what?

Imagine a client telling a coder that they need a compiler for a language,
before the concept of a compiler existed. Coder asks, what do you want to
do, give me an example. Client gives an example and coder says "Oh what
you need is......" the end result is something that can only optimise the
example given, nothing more.

So this idea of telling what you need to do doesn't always work. And in
this case it does not work.

>There is a lot of jargon and syntax and subtlety in the programming
>world.  Most expert programmers know many languages and can easily map
>concepts from one onto another.  Most technically savvy clients
>cannot.  So the technically savvy client needs to stay focused on what
>they want to do (as you do below when you spell out the need for
>persistence across server reboots, concurrence, locking, platform
>independence, human readable, etc...).

Lets' test that theory!

>So I don't think the real problem is a tower of babel.  The real
>problem is that the client and coder (intermediary) need to stay
>focused on problem descriptions and solutions, not low level technical
>implementations.

>You have identified your problem fairly well below.  Some more
>information would be helpful.  How many users?  Exactly which
>platforms?  You probably don't need true independence, which doesn't
>exist.  How big are the data chunks?  Is this mission critical data?

Major comprehension failure beginning here, on your part.

>Then your coder can provide different alternative solutions with cost
>estimates and spell out how well each of them meet your criteria.  If
>the coder can't present them in problem description/solution
>language, you should look for another coder.

getting deeper in failure.

>I suspect if you supplement your problem description made in your
>previous post with some additional quantitative information, you'll
>get some answers to your questions here about how well python and
>other technologies support them.

Supplement?????? I know more about programming that many clients would,
and you want me to know more???? Or how else Am I to supplement?

this is like a cassade failure, the more that is failing the faster it
gets at failing.

>Off the cuff, for moderate to large projects using only free, open
>source technologies, a combination of the following (which all play
>very well together) meet many of your requirements:

>-- Platform independence: python clients with platform independent
>   graphical user interfaces (GUI).  If you want clients on Windows,
>   Mac OS, linux and some major UNIXes UNIXs, your coder can choose
>   between many GUI libraries (wxpython, tkinter, pygtk, ...).  If you
>   want handheld support, your choices will be more limited.

>-- Concurrency, locking and persistence: I've read that the database
>   postgresql which is readily controllable by the python clients
>   provides fairly good transactional support.  I've been told it
>   doesn't scale well to very large numbers of concurrent
>   transactions, so the size of your project may be important here.

>-- Human readability.  Extensible Markup Language (XML) is widely
>   regarded as the dominant standard for data storage that needs to be
>   both machine and human readable.  You can combine this with
>   databases by storing the XML in a database text field.  python has
>   a number of built-in tools as well as powerful extensions for
>   handling this data efficiently.


>John Hunter


And all of this complexity over a friggin list of human readable/editable
variables/values recorded and accesses thru files.

Oh, yeah... It most certainly is a tower of babel.

GUI? where did you get the idea that a GUI was involved? From the Tower
of Babel?

Database handeling? For a simple lists of variables, python has plenty of
builtin cross platform compatable functionality... anydbm, shelves,
pickle, etc. probably all being more than is really needed, so what's the
point of going to external complexity to further complicate the matter?
The more complex a system gets, the higher the probability of error and
resulting costs.

Concurrency is the key issue, but for python to be running concurrently in
a cross platform coded manner... it is likely to be using threads. But
here it's not really parrallel processing, but rather time slicing via the
Global Interpreter Lock. Though fcntl.flock is not cross platform
available, even where it is available it's only internal in use to the
python program that is using it. It has no control over other programs
accessing such a file. It fact there is no hard cross platform method of
such file access control, even outside of python.

As a matter of making soft cross platform internal python program file
access control available, the locking controls in the cross platform
threading module would have to be used. Though not directly controlling of
file locks, they can be used indirectly to control the code that reads and
writes to the files.

Human readability..... what ever happened to plain damn english (or in
this case - whatevr character set the user is using)? XML is just adding
pointless complexity, or at least extra, that leads to greater probability
of error, in this case.

The more pointless complexity that is added in, the greater the tower of
babel will fail, will fall.


If you can't bedazzel them with brilliance, baffel them with bull shit.
Just so long as you are ...... nice and smile.... it's supposed to be ok.

Isn't that right John?

Oh yeah...

>Off the cuff, for moderate to large projects using only free, open
>source technologies, a combination of the following (which all play
>very well together) meet many of your requirements:

"using only free, open source technology"?????

Exactly what is it that you are trying to insinuate here, in this tower of
babel you have tried to create?


In any event, I suppose you have been helpful John, though it may not have
been intentional but rather indirectly. For the solution direction is that
of using threading locks to control the code that provides access to files
for read and write operations. While anything outside of the python coded
application would need to either not access it for writes or go thru the
python coded application to make updates to the file, where the threading
locks would again be applied.

Another possible direction is that of using thread locks to control a
stream/pipe that is read by a file writer. As "variable ; tag ; value"
exist on a single line and such stream control locks is a common simple
example given in such things as the O'Reilly python books. Where in
updating the file the method of preventing external program conflict in
reading the file, while it is being written/updated by the python program,
a matter of using two files. A temp file the internal python program
writes then renames to the correct name, letting the os manage the
conflict avoidance during the rename (where if the OS fails.... It's an
OS problem that in any decent OS should have already dealt with.)

Oh wait... the os may be proprietary..... ;) meaning... it doesn't really
matter.

Having a WALL to bounce off of..... seems to be helpful in figuring out
the solution direction. Though it does not spell the specific coded
details out, it does help to remove the communication barrier between
client and coder.... Or so I hope..... shrug (there is no solution to the
human choice factor.... it has to be a choice to understand, ultimately
and apparently.)

Thanks John the wall.


---
*3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!*
   *~ ~ ~      Advancing How we Perceive and Use the Tool of Computers!*
Timothy Rue      What's *DONE* in all we do?  *AI PK OI IP OP SF IQ ID KE*
Email @ mailto:timrue at mindspring.com      >INPUT->(Processing)->OUTPUT>v
Web @ http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/  ^<--------<----9----<--------<



From rod at ardbeg.net  Tue Nov 19 02:17:11 2002
From: rod at ardbeg.net (Rod Crawford- Ardbeg)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:17:11 GMT
Subject: A Minimal Python Distribution
Message-ID: <XzlC9.5643$fY3.601121@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

We are thinking of using python as the language for prescribing a tool to
install new firmware in our customers development boards.

We want existing users of our boards to quickly download the installer (and
firmware to be installed) from our website onto a PC, then connect their
boards and update. (The firmware is a few 100K max).

We found that the complete python distribution is too big to do this kind of
thing.... our customers are hardware guys who probably will (alas) never use
python themselves, want to rapidly download the firmware and won't want
python appearing in their "start menu".

Is there a recognized minimal/subset of python that we could start from that
would be a short download for them, but provide the features we need?

Regards,

Rod.




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 12 16:33:14 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:33:14 -0800
Subject: Q: Name of a arbitary variable as a string?
References: <3DD15E18.F5A8905B@ilt.fhg.de>
Message-ID: <3DD1739A.BD2F54B4@alcyone.com>

username wrote:

> I am searching for a function (call it: var_name) that do something
> like
> this:
> 
> >>> V="Hello World"
> >>> var_name(V)
> 'V'
> 
> I know how to get it from the locals() Dict. but this is not well
> defined if I have a second variabe
> 
> >>> T="Hello World"

Ah, but that just underscores the point that there can't be any such
function.  Objects are unique; names aren't.  You can have multiple
names bound to the same object, so there is no "right" name for an
object, there is just _a_ name for an object.  There could be others.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If a thing is worth doing, then it is worth doing badly.
\__/ G.K. Chesterton
    ZOE / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/zoe/
 A simple Python OpenGL rendering engine.


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 20 10:11:51 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 15:11:51 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <areli6$ris$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnatlo5h.r3b.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <arg8nn$kr2$0@216.39.172.122>

On 20 Nov 2002 01:07:57 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
[...]
>> 
>> Sounds like the mask location is safe if you don't call
>> GetOverlappedResult??
>
OTOH it looks to me pretty sure that a persistent LPOVERLAPPED structure at least
is expected for the duration of the background operation.

and, thinking about it, it says,

"GetOverlappedResult reports the success or failure of the operation, and the
variable pointed to by the lpEvtMask parameter is set to indicate the event that occurred."

but you don't re-specify lpEvtMask with that call, so I think I would agree with your
original take on all this.

They wouldn't just force a wait all the time, would they? Though I can imagine that
being a tempting temporary quick fix for something, and temporariness sometimes stretches.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 27 17:35:33 2002
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 14:35:33 -0800
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0211271435.705bd073@posting.google.com>

Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote in message news:<mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list at python.org>...
> I have a few related questions. Assume that we have defined f as above
> in one global namespace, A say, and assume that f (re)binds y. Then we
> place f in another global namespace, B say. What happens when we execute
> f in B is that y in A is rebound. I would have guessed that a variable y
> in B would have been created or rebound. 

I think it'll be more clear if you can provide concrete code examples.
Words tend to lend to different interpretations in different ears. :)

# file A.py:
y = 1
def f():
    global y
    y = 2

# file B.py:
from A import f
y = 3
f()
print y
import A
print A.y
if f.func_globals == A.__dict__: print 'true'
exec f.func_code in globals()
print y

The result is:
3
2
true
2

>   Why is that so? 
>   Is that behaviour intended?
>   Is it likely to stay that way?

(a) Notice that f() was created in A, and at the moment of its
creation, it stores the binding to the global namespace A. (You can
check the f.func_globals) So, when you execute the code of f() without
specifying a new globals dictionary, it uses its default bound
globals: A.__dict__.

(b) I guess so.

(c) I guess so. When a function is created, some information is stored
in the function object. (Check dir(f) to see its attributes.) A
function is more than just its code. Things like the function-globals
dictionary, the default values, etc. are kind of bound to the whole
Python philosophy and enjoy a long track record. That is, I don't
think they are likely to change.

>   Is there an obvous way to have f (still defined in A) manipulate
>   objects in B when executed in B?

Yes. As in the code example above. Your sentence "... executed in
B..." reflects the good choice of name for the Python statement "exec
... in ..." :)

regards,

Hung Jung


From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Thu Nov  7 19:47:21 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:47:21 -0600
Subject: Newbie- how to basics
References: <8d3e714e.0211071600.2a98b136@posting.google.com> <slrnasm03e.160.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <006901c286c0$669cf380$ba01010a@local>

Oops... guess I could give a link:

    http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/wconio.html

Sorry... :-)

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net





From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov 15 12:45:42 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:45:42 -0600
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <ar399e$1ibq$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
        <4STA9.9987$744.345722@news1.tin.it>
        <jc58tugirbnbtn1i7e2kf7of4l3ltt665e@4ax.com>
        <mailman.1037315122.20415.python-list@python.org>
        <3DD44152.69795B9F@alcyone.com>
        <ar399e$1ibq$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <15829.12998.808399.473793@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Russell> and strong typing (which plays hell with collection classes)
                 ^^^^^^

Make that "static". ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From paska at kios.sk  Tue Nov 19 04:06:49 2002
From: paska at kios.sk (Stano Paska)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:06:49 +0100
Subject: XML SAX
In-Reply-To: <78d1e22e.0211190052.37ed3488@posting.google.com>
References: <78d1e22e.0211190052.37ed3488@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DD9FF29.3010000@kios.sk>

document root element must be only one in whole document.

<root>
<body>
</body>
<body>
</body>
</root>

Stano.

Sara wrote:
> In the Demo/xml directory of the python distribution, there is a
> "roundtrip.py" exampel of how to use the XML SAX API. The script
> basically parses an xml file, and echos the elements to standard out.
> 
> I have written a very small XML file I use as input (test.xml):
> 
> <body>
> </body>
> <body>
> </body>
> 
> And I get an execption (see output below) from the expat parser, which
> is selected by default.
> Having just one XML "body" element works fine, but not two as in the
> example above...
> 
> What is the problem?
> 
> Thanx
> Sara
> 
> 
> % python roundtrip.py test.xml
> 
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
> <body>
> </body>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Temp\roundtrip.py", line 45, in ?
>     parser.parse(sys.argv[1])
>   File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\sax\expatreader.py",
> line 109, in parse
>     xmlreader.IncrementalParser.parse(self, source)
>   File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\sax\xmlreader.py", line
> 123, in parse
>     self.feed(buffer)
>   File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\sax\expatreader.py",
> line 208, in feed
>     self._err_handler.fatalError(exc)
>   File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\sax\handler.py", line
> 38, in fatalError
>     raise exception
> xml.sax._exceptions.SAXParseException: test.xml:3:0: junk after
> document elemen






From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov 20 23:30:06 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:30:06 -0800
Subject: A simple question: How to exit from a python script? Just like the 
 exit() in C++
References: <mailman.1037851121.5334.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDC614E.CEAA37F9@alcyone.com>

You wrote:

> I have a simple question as is written in the header, how can I exit
> from a python program using a call
> such as "exit()" in C++?

	sys.exit()

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nothing you have said / Is revelation
\__/ The Russian, _Chess_
    CSBuddy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/csbuddy/
 A Counter-Strike server log file monitor in Python.


From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 25 13:23:45 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 10:23:45 -0800
Subject: wxPython probleme
In-Reply-To: <3ddf8d9b$0$205$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
References: <3ddf8d9b$0$205$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <1038248624.1700.92.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Sat, 2002-11-23 at 06:13, Jonas Geiregat wrote:
> I have 2 questions
> 1.the lines I've commented out don't work and I don't see the probleme

Seems to work fine here (select File->Exit, program exits - or were you
expecting something else?).  Could you be more specific than "doesn't
work"?.  Do you have a problem with your indentation?

> 2.I want to create a function so I can save what I typed in in a file I 
> know how to write to a file but I don't know what variable the 
> wxTextCtrl uses in other words what var do I have to write to the file ?

Use wxTextCtrl.GetValue() (see below).


> here is the code:

I've made several minor modifications to your source.  Note the use of
wxNewId() rather than explicit id's.  It's better to let wxPython manage
the id's that your program uses.  Far less prone to error.  I also got
sort of carried away and did some other stuff ;)  Anyway, I this seems
to work for me:

import sys, os
from   wxPython.wx import *

ID_OPEN = wxNewId()
ID_SAVE = wxNewId()
ID_EXIT = wxNewId()

class main_window(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, parent, id, title):
        wxFrame.__init__(self, parent, -1, title, size = (500,500),
                        
style=wxDEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE|wxNO_FULL_REPAINT_ON_RESIZE)
            
        self.CreateStatusBar()
        self.SetStatusText("small editor")
        
        M_file = wxMenu()
        M_file.Append(ID_OPEN, "&Open","Open a file")
        M_file.Append(ID_SAVE, "&Save","Save a file")
        M_file.Append(ID_EXIT, "&Quit","Quit this small editor")
        
        menuBar = wxMenuBar()
        menuBar.Append(M_file,"&File")
        self.SetMenuBar(menuBar)

        self.path = None
        self.control = wxTextCtrl(self, -1, style=wxTE_MULTILINE)
        self.Show(true)
        
        EVT_MENU(self, ID_EXIT,  self.OnExit)
        EVT_MENU(self, ID_SAVE,  self.OnSave)
        
    def OnExit(self, event):
        self.Close(true)
                                
    def OnSave(self, event):
        text = self.control.GetValue()
        if self.path is None:
            wildcard = "Text files (*.txt)|*.txt|All files (*.*)|*.*"
            dlg = wxFileDialog(self, "Save file as...", "", "",
wildcard, wxSAVE)
            if dlg.ShowModal() == wxID_OK:
                path = dlg.GetPath()
            dlg.Destroy() 

            if os.path.exists(path):
                dlg = wxMessageDialog(self, 'Overwrite %s?' % path,
                                      'Confirm overwrite file',
                                      wxYES_NO | wxNO_DEFAULT |
wxICON_QUESTION)
                response = dlg.ShowModal()
                dlg.Destroy()
                if response != wxID_YES:
                    return
            self.path = path
            
        f = file(self.path, 'w')
        f.write(text)
        f.close()
        
                        
class App(wxApp):
    def OnInit(self):
        frame = main_window(None, -1, "wxPython: (A Demonstration)")
        frame.Show(true)
        self.SetTopWindow(frame)
        return true

app = App(0)
app.MainLoop()




-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From cappy2112 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 23:13:45 2002
From: cappy2112 at yahoo.com (Tony C)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:13:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Command.com hosed. OS.system python modules won't execute properly
Message-ID: <20021108041345.67064.qmail@web11405.mail.yahoo.com>


 

In order to get my Python environment variables, and path working correctly, under Windows 98, I had to add the following to my config.sys, because my environment ran out of space

shell=C:\command.com /p /E:4096

 

Now, when I try to execute modules in OS, such as OS.system('cls'), python reports the following error

 >>> import os
>>> os.system('cls')
Invalid COMMAND.COM
Enter correct name of Command Interpreter (eg, C:\COMMAND.COM)


If I don't add the /p to the shell= statement, a "File Creation Error" message is displayed before Windows 98 loads, and the DOS prompt is displayed.

I found the /P solution to the "File creation error" message problem on Google:groups. Apparently a lot of people had the same problem, in Win 95 days.

 

Does anyboy have some insight to my command interpreter problem ?

thanks

 

 



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD
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From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Nov  8 07:01:01 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 13:01:01 +0100
Subject: Getting SSL certificate
References: <aeGy9.15988$6b.572415@news2.east.cox.net> <m3smycjztc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <kuisz8bhne.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <j48z04z2wy.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> writes:

> || The httplib modules supports SSL, but does not check certificates.  

Can you please explain what it means to check a certificate?

> what do these arguments do? i had been under the impression
> that key_file is for sending a client certificate, 

Correct, so probably not relevant.

> and cert_file was for a certificate authority that the server cert
> should be checked against. but it is a faint impression :)

Yes. And you need such a thing to check a server certificate.

> in case it is so, this still does not let you at the server
> certificate...

Is there a missing here?

Regards,
Martin


From wilk-spamout at flibuste.net  Fri Nov 29 11:49:37 2002
From: wilk-spamout at flibuste.net (William)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 17:49:37 +0100
Subject: catch output of threads
Message-ID: <87of88723i.fsf@flibuste.net>

Hi,

Is it possible to catch the output from print of differents threads ?
In a single thread, i can change the value of sys.stdout... but with
differents thread i don't know ?

My goal is to make a little server with multithread working on 
windows without calling an external interpreter (like CGIHTTPServer do).

bye

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net


From j.rauser at science-factory.com  Mon Nov 18 07:44:43 2002
From: j.rauser at science-factory.com (James Rauser)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:44:43 +0100
Subject: Standard module for import hacks?
Message-ID: <3DD8E0BB.898E3593@science-factory.com>

Hi,

is imputil.py in the 2.2.1 distribution *really* a part of the
standard library?  I would like to do some import hacks (see below),
but the information I can find about the "right" way to do it is
contradictory.  I've found references to __import__ (low-level),
"ihooks" (no code) and imputil.py (in the library, but not documented).
The Import-SIG seems to be inactive, but I found an old mail in which
Guido says that imputil.py is still experimental, and other references
which say that its performance is bad.

Here's the task: we want to use Python as the scripting language for
our bioinformatics software, which is organized as an (open-ended)
collection of C++ shared libraries.  These libraries are *not* written
as python extensions, but they contain meta-information on their
exported names which I can use to automagically map the exported
functions into python callable objects.  With this I can create and
initialize a python module object.  The code to do this is in an
extension module 'pysf', in a function "sfimport". So, now I can write:

  import pysf              # get the root module for our python interface
  pysf.sfimport("FOO")     # map libFOO.so into a python module "pysf.FOO"
  from pysf import FOO     # I get tired of typing pysf.FOO all the time
  FOO.bar("zot")

What I'd like to do is eliminate the strange call to pysf.sfimport()
and the nested module names and just be able to write

  import pysf              # get root module, set up import hook
  import FOO               # map libFOO.so onto python module FOO
  FOO.bar("zot")

I'd like to do it in a way that will coexist with any other packages
that also hack the import mechanism.   What's the right mechanism?

TIA, Jim

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Rauser                                          Science Factory GmbH
mailto:j.rauser at science-factory.com                       Unter K?ster 1
Tel: +49 221 277 399 204                          50667 Cologne, Germany


From k.weinert at gmx.net  Thu Nov 21 11:48:56 2002
From: k.weinert at gmx.net (Karsten Weinert)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 08:48:56 -0800
Subject: Redirect question
References: <fa576652.0211170745.2328fe56@posting.google.com> <3DD7F71E.9050807@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <fa576652.0211210848.104a0093@posting.google.com>

Well, after solving my error in the Redirect class with all your help,
I now encountered a new problem. Here is the program:

import sys, win32ui

class Redirect:
  def __init__(self):
    self.s=""
  def write(self, s):
    self.s+=s
  def flush(self):
    win32ui.MessageBox(self.s)

sys.stdout = Redirect()
sys.stderr = Redirect()
print 'Hidey Ho'
print "Hidey hidey hidey ho"
sys.stdout.flush() # is displayed
# from here, no output is produced, e.g. no messagebox
assert 1==0, "Impossible Assertion"
sys.stderr.flush() 

What am I doing wrong? Enclosing the assert statement with try/finally
or try/except only displays an empty message box.

Kind regards,
Karsten


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 24 17:06:08 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 22:06:08 GMT
Subject: passing objects to functions
References: <B-ycnWLZVsDArnygXTWcow@ctc.net>
Message-ID: <arrigg$nk$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:15:25 -0600, Joe Heafner <heafnerj at spam.vnet.net> wrote:

>
>I have the following Python code written using VPython:
>
>from visual import *
>
>def derivative(t,x,xp,xpp):
>  xmu = 1.407645794e16
>  r = mag(x)
>  r3 = r**3
>  xpp[0] = -xmu*x[0]/r3
>  xpp[1] = -xmu*x[1]/r3
>  xpp[2] = -xmu*x[2]/r3
>
>t = 2451545.0
>x=vector(1.,1.,1.)
>xdot=vector(1.,1.,1.)
>xmu = 1.407645794e16
>#xddot = -xmu*x/(mag(x)**3)
>#print xddot
>xddot=vector(0,0,0)
 ^^^^^^ Here you bind the name xddot to whatever object vector(0,0,0) creates

>
>x=vector(2.,2.,2.)
 ^^ Similarly you bind the name x

>derivative(t,x,xdot,xddot)
>
>print xddot
>
>When executed, I get the expected result for xddot. When I modify the code 
>to read:
>
>from visual import *
BTW, using a wholesale * import is not a good habit, because all the importable names
in the module come in and will replace anything you already had by a matching name.
There are cases where it's ok, but beware. If you just import visual, you get the
one name "visual" and then you can get to anything else via visual.whatever,
and for convenience and speed you can bind selected names like foo = visual.foo
(you don't have to give them the same name BTW. import math; pie = math.pi will work,
however inadvisable that one might be).

>
>def derivative(t,x,xp,xpp):
>  xmu = 1.407645794e16
>  r = mag(x)
>  r3 = r**3
>  #xpp[0] = -xmu*x[0]/r3
>  #xpp[1] = -xmu*x[1]/r3
>  #xpp[2] = -xmu*x[2]/r3
>  xpp = -xmu*x/r3
   ^^^^^ Here you are rebinding a function-local name xpp to an object with the value -xmu*x/r3
         xpp was previously bound to the fourth argument's value, which is not affected.
         xpp[index] does not rebind the xpp name. Instead it uses xpp to find the object
         (a reference to which was passed in the function/procedure call) and asks that
         object to modify itself according to its definition of indexed assignment (i.e.,
         via the __setitem__ method in a custom object). Thus the external object associated
         temporarily with xpp inside the function can get modified. But associating a new
         value with the temporary local xpp name will have no effect on the outside.
         I.e., assignment to xpp does not act like a C++ reference parameter. It does not
         write through and modify some memory location. In Python there aren't any
         memory locations in that sense. You have names, but they don't designate places
         in memory. Names exist in various name spaces where they can be looked up to see
         what they are bound to. Assignment to a bare name is giving the name a new binding.
         The object it was previously bound to is unaffected, except that if no other binding
         existed it may be garbage collected.
>
>t = 2451545.0
>x=vector(1.,1.,1.)
>xdot=vector(1.,1.,1.)
>xmu = 1.407645794e16
>#xddot = -xmu*x/(mag(x)**3)
>#print xddot
>#xddot=vector(0,0,0)
 ^-Here you comment out the xddot binding
>
>x=vector(2.,2.,2.)
>derivative(t,x,xdot,xddot)
                     ^^^^^- and here it doesn't exist when you try to pass it
>
>print xddot
>
>I get the error message:
>
>[localhost:~] joe% python testrk4.py
>Visual-2002-07-22
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>File "testrk4.py", line 22, in ?
>derivative(t,x,xdot,xddot)
>NameError: name 'xddot' is not defined
because you commented it out ;-)
Specifying a name in a call does not create a binding for the name, so that's
why you got the message. (That doesn't work in C either BTW. Names used in
calling parameter expressions have to *exist*, barring something perverse
that I can't think of now).

>[localhost:~] joe%
>
>Why does this not work when simply writing
>
>xddot = -xmu*x/(mag(x)**3)
>
>outside my function works perfectly? I'm lost here, and Lutz and Ascher's 
because an assignment inside a function does not write the name on the same
blackboard as a name used outside, unless you tell Python that it should.

Also, the assignment on the inside used xpp, not xddot.
You could declare xddot global inside the function and then assign to xddot,
but that is an ugly way to return values from a function. The best way is
to pass the function a reference to a mutable object and talk to that via
its methods to change its state and store values, or to return values
with a return statement in the function. Note that you can return a (reference to a)
composite object like a tuple or a list, or a custom object.

>book has not helped me, most probably because I don't know where to look 
>for the problem I'm having. I'm trying to port some QuickBASIC numerical 
>analysis code and I need  the capability to pass a vector (a VPython 
>vector, not an ordinary array) into a function, potentially modify that
>vector's components, and then have the same vector accessible outside the 
>function. I can make it work with arrays but not with vectors. I'd 
>appreciate any help.
>
Multiple values separated by commas in a return statement get returned in a tuple, and
assigning the returned value to a sequence of names separated by commas
unpacks the tuple and binds corresponding names and tuple values, e.g.,

def derivative(whatever, blah, blah2):
  # whatever
  ...
  return "some value you've computed", "a second value"

xddot, the_second_value = derivative(actual, parameter, references_and_expressions)

I highly recommend spending some time  with the tutorial and other newbie stuff you'll
find links to at www.python.org

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From teaandbikkie at aol.com  Thu Nov 28 11:26:07 2002
From: teaandbikkie at aol.com (TeaAndBikkie)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 16:26:07 GMT
Subject: LAN communication under windows
References: <3de60530.10377734@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <20021128112607.01402.00000050@mb-cr.aol.com>

>From: stojek at part-gmbh.de  (Marcus Stojek)
>for a little (net) game i am planning, i have to write two components,
>a client and a server module. If one of the gamers starts the
>clientmodule on his machine this prog has to connect to the server,
>register itself with the username and receive a list of users that
>have their client module running. When exiting the client module it
>has to unregister at the server module. So nothing very special.
>
>Except that I have no idea how to start or where to look? Do I have to
>use services or sockets or something else? I am sure there is a simple
>example somewhere, but i can't find it.

The following recipes are a bit of a start.

Python Cookbook -- Message Passing With Socket Datagrams (by Jeff Bauer)
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52218

Python Cookbook -- PyHeartBeat - detecting inactive computers (by Nicola
Larosa)
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52302

--Misha



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Nov 20 09:33:24 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 06:33:24 -0800
Subject: how does import work ?
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211200633.2ed7e075@posting.google.com>

Suppose I have a module where two functions f1 and f2 are defined and
suppose that f2 calls f1 internally. This is an example:

# -- begin module f1f2.py --

def f1():
    print "Called f1()"

def f2():
    print "Called f2()"
    f1()

# -- end module f1f2.py --

Suppose now I import ONLY the function f2, but not f1:

>>> from f1f2 import f2

Then, if I call f2,  I would expect an error since f2 requires f1 but 
I have NOT imported f1. Nevertheless it works:

>>> f2()
Called f2()
Called f1()

therefore Python has imported f1 too, but is some hidden way, since
f1 is not in the current namespace dictionary:

>>> vars()
{'__builtins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>, 
'__name__': '__main__', 'f2': <function f2 at 0x815779c>, 
'__doc__': None}

This behavior is quite confusing to me, somebody can explain what is
happening ?

--
Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Tue Nov 19 23:48:30 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:48:30 -0800
Subject: static variables?
In-Reply-To: <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com>
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <200211200448.UAA15829@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Tuesday 19 November 2002 18:59, Erik Max Francis wrote:

> As for the "why," I think it's just a historical accident which is too
> late to change now.

Actually, it isn't so random as that.  When you make a function with "def", 
it actually makes a function object right there, rather than making a promise 
to provide one later when linking.  If you redefine a function (not allowed 
in many languages), python will happily make a new function object using the 
same name, etc.

So, since the default argument is part of the definition, the default 
argument is actually created and bound, once, during the definition, not 
repeatedly during calling.  But if you call a function repeatedly, giving an 
empty list argument each time, for example, a list IS created each time.  It 
is all as you would expect, once you get into the proper mode of thinking 
about it.

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From engsol at teleport.com  Thu Nov 21 22:15:13 2002
From: engsol at teleport.com (engsol at teleport.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 03:15:13 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ddd98ad.3250874@news.earthlink.net>

<snip a lot of good stuff>

I, for one, find this thread very interesting. It's nice to learn that other people have
different rates of learning.

My personal observations/comments are:

I too can pick up a programming book, and in a a couple of evenings, do the "simple"
stuff...like for loops, procedures, etc. But I always seen to hit a leveling off (or
several) in the learning curve.. I can't seem to progress in the sense of expressing a
programming task in terms of the current lanquage of interest, until, (and this is a big
UNTIL) I see a book which explains concepts in a way that makes the light go on.

One example....I'm a fair C programmer. When C++ became popular, I read the usual books
"Learn C++ in 10 microseconds", but I never really grasped the concepts of OOP nor
classes. So I shunned them. Then along came Python..and the light dawned. It wasn't the
first Python book I read, not the 8th..it was the 9th that broke my personal learning dam.
Why? Because it explained the process and offered concepts that stuck, and to me, made
sense.

Another example: I was using Python to do some heavy duty parsing and report generation of
log files. I knew I needed to use regular expressions, so I hacked at it. Some things
worked, others didn't. I was getting frustrated. Then I found "Mastering Regular
Expressions" by Jeffery E.F. Friedl. Bingo! I learned more in the first 2-3 chapters than
all the other books combined.

I was happy to see that others cringe at their early code when they revisited it later.
LOL..welcome to the club.

Regards,
Norm


From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Wed Nov 27 04:22:20 2002
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:22:20 +0100
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it> <3DE2893A.CCB631D6@jandecaluwe.com> <3DE449BD.1040503@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <3DE48ECC.8FC9AE53@jandecaluwe.com>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> 
> Jan Decaluwe wrote:
> 
> > However, if I use inheritance from an immutable
> > type, the subtype is automatically immutable also, right?
> 
> Not necessarily -- there's nothing stopping you giving
> your subclass some mutable state and providing
> methods for mutating it.

Ok, let me explain better. Suppose - for the sake of the
argument - that I have a legitimate need for mutable numbers.

The point is then that I want to "inherit" the operators
from the (mutable) value. 

This is trivial to do with old-style classes and delegation,
but this technique doesn't work with new-style classes, as my initial
example shows. 

If on the other hand, I use "real" inheritance from an 
immutable type, there's no way I see to achieve a subtype
with a mutable underlying value. On *this* point, the
documentation on new-style classes is actually very 
clear: in fact, __new__ was introduced to guarantee
that subclassing doesn't break immutability. 

So I'm stuck. OTOH, I'm still not convinced that the
new behavior of __getattr__ is a feature instead of
a bug.

Regards, Jan

--
Jan Decaluwe 
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 27 23:32:53 2002
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 20:32:53 -0800
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org> <3DDB3373.2578CEC0@alcyone.com> <8ef9bea6.0211201119.2f846d0c@posting.google.com> <JxqdnQqI-cZFnEGgXTWcqA@comcast.com> <8ef9bea6.0211220601.4c92d43e@posting.google.com> <3DDF1C3B.46BE47BC@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0211272032.4560dd0f@posting.google.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<3DDF1C3B.46BE47BC at alcyone.com>...
> Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> > faces and names. That's why I selected an example from a start. Please
> > look over Mr. Erik Max Francis' comments again (and trace to the
> > original thread.) And tell me why he made the comments he made. (Of
> The only thing I can conclude from this comment is that you didn't
> understand the point I was making.  Maybe you should try tracing back
> the original thread yourself.

I did, quite a few times, and I feel deep sympathy for your being
assaulted by so many people, many of them Python old timer experts.
What can I say, except that you have my condolences? :)

Hung Jung


From pjmacz at slcj.uw.edu.pl  Tue Nov 19 07:43:03 2002
From: pjmacz at slcj.uw.edu.pl (Pawel J. Maczewski)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:43:03 +0100
Subject: lame question about Pyython and PyGTK
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211191335330.27040-100000@buka.slcj.uw.edu.pl>

Hi,
  I hava such a structure in each line of a file:
key1 : key2 : value
  I'd like to read it and (somehow) transform to a structure that could be 
used in creating gkt.Tree object, like this: the first "layer" of the tree 
would be the key1-s, for each kye1 there would be list of subtrees 
(key2-s) containing values. I'm not sure if I made myself clear, but I 
really need  this help...

regards,
  Pawel


-- 
   Pawel J. Maczewski @ HIL
    reg.linux user #281878



From gminick at hacker.pl  Sat Nov 30 11:30:30 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:30:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to install with -O?
References: <mailman.1038511660.30945.python-list@python.org> <as6dvn$6gt$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1038601365.18263.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaui7ca.sd.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:20:59 -0500, Michael Gilfix napisa?(a):
>   Hi Aahz. So, I can just set the PYTHONOPTIMIZE variable in my
> setup.py and python will take care of itself (both in unix n'
> windows)? Perhaps I should work on a distutils patch...
You should set that variable in your shell, not in setup.py.

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From logistix at zworg.com  Mon Nov 18 02:12:24 2002
From: logistix at zworg.com (logistix)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 23:12:24 -0800
Subject: Pythoncal, anyone? (My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255))
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org> <PoWcnQjwr8ECy06gXTWc3A@comcast.com> <3DD84FDA.3010708@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <bdb5b58f.0211172312.10e6f7d7@posting.google.com>

> 
> Then an empty generator could be written
> 
>   def g():
>     don't yield None
> 
> Now, since this isn't going to do anything,
> it should be permissible to omit any expressions
> that would otherwise be required in a statement
> covered by a "don't", leaving just
> 
>   def g():
>     don't yield

Not quite as clean, but it can already be done.

class foo:
    def next(self):
        pass
    def __iter__(self):
        return self

Although in either case a for..in loop or list comprehension will repeat infinitely.


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 29 03:12:59 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:12:59 -0800
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org> <3DE4102D.7D4291F4@alcyone.com> <3DE58723.5040306@something.invalid> <as5k8n$e5o$0@216.39.172.122> <3DE69910.7030504@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <3DE7218B.4FE8B3F0@alcyone.com>

Greg Ewing wrote:

> A while ago there was some talk of adding a new operator
> for matrix multiplication, and @ was suggested for that.
> I don't know what the BDFL thinks about it, though.

Are you referring to the proposed outer operator in PEP 211 (which is
listed as "track")?  Not to be nitpicking, but that's not quite the same
thing as matrix multiplication.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Life is a predicament which precedes death.
\__/ Henry James
    PyUID / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/uid/
 A module for generating "unique" IDs in Python.


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 15 16:59:22 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:59:22 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
	        <4STA9.9987$744.345722@news1.tin.it>
	        <jc58tugirbnbtn1i7e2kf7of4l3ltt665e@4ax.com>
	        <mailman.1037315122.20415.python-list@python.org>
	        <3DD44152.69795B9F@alcyone.com>
	        <mailman.1037334449.14338.python-list@python.org>
	        <t3iatu891qt9n74hfld92cnqgmmgg02jdv@4ax.com> <mailman.1037391024.25905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD56E3A.63F0AC42@alcyone.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> Indeed.  With very rare exception, the only documentation tools I need
> are
> the builtin help() function and the global module index:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/modindex.html
> 
> Fred Drake and his minions do a wonderful job keeping the
> documentation
> within spitting distance of the source code.

Same here, and agreed.  I do have a copy of the _Python Essential
Reference_, but the only time I really find myself going to it is when I
want to implement a class that behaves like a numeric and so implements
most of the arithmetic operators; there's a concise list of all the
arithmetic operators you can overload in a class, so I frequently find
myself using it as a checklist.  Though I think it's a great book,
that's really the only section I've relied upon.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I never vote for anyone.  I always vote against.
\__/ W.C. Fields
    Bosskey.net: Aliens vs. Predator 2 / http://www.bosskey.net/avp2/
 A personal guide to Aliens vs. Predator 2.


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  7 16:03:31 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:03:31 GMT
Subject: [Jython] Import py file from JAR?
Message-ID: <DyAy9.45416$Lg2.12460220@news2.news.adelphia.net>

Thanks to those of you answered my original fuzzy post about importing
modules.  After extensive Google searching, I believe what I really want to
do is add the JAR file that my Jython JavaBean resides in to the Jython's
path.  I know I can append paths to sys.path with sys.path.append(Path).
But I need to know how to identify the path of my JAR properly so that
Jython searches the system path properly.

Can anyone give me the correct steps or syntax, or is this idea not
workable?

thx






From tanzer at swing.co.at  Tue Nov 19 03:09:33 2002
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:09:33 +0100
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:09:04 CST."
             <15829.25200.615655.804367@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <E18E3Rt-0001rG-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>     John> What is the python-mode function that you bind F1 to?  That sounds
>     John> useful.
>
> py-help-at-point.  I'm using python-mode 4.11.  I believe it's part of
> recent versions.  (I wrote it awhile ago and Barry added it, including the
> key binding.)

Time machine? python.org only has 4.6.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Nov 10 06:20:57 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:20:57 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <lzfzua3cwc.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
Message-ID: <aqlfh1$c7d$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 17:50:59 +0100, "Johannes Gr?dem"
<johs+n at ifi.uio.no> wrote:

>* anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor):
>
>> A computer program has to determine what a certain input means before
>> it can produce output. [...]
>
>You're trolling, right?

FYI, accusing someone of trolling, without providing any explanation
is considered to be rude. Quoting a few lines and relying on the
selfexplanatory nature of ones assumptions is showing a bit of a
selfcentered worldview. To me there's no evidence of trolling in the
quoted lines.

Anton.


From johs+n at ifi.uio.no  Sun Nov 10 09:09:35 2002
From: johs+n at ifi.uio.no (Johannes =?iso-8859-1?q?Gr=F8dem?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:09:35 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl>
 <lzfzua3cwc.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqlfh1$c7d$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <lzisz5sehs.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>

* anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor):

>>You're trolling, right?
> [...]
> To me there's no evidence of trolling in the quoted lines.

Oh, come on.  You're implying that Lisp's syntax is the way it is
because the makers of Lisp-compilers are unable to parse more
complicated syntax.  If you don't think that is trolling, you'd better
put down whatever it is you're smoking and come back later.

-- 
Johannes Gr?dem <OpenPGP: 5055654C>


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Nov  4 13:35:21 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 18:35:21 GMT
Subject: Encoding of String
References: <aq67lr$6fj$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <J5zx9.3042$1r1.97552@newsc.telia.net>

Thomas Guettler wrote:

> Is there a way to get the encoding of a string?
>
> Suppose I do:
>
> mystring="blu"
> ustring=unicode(mystring, "utf-8")
>
> later I want to know which encoding ustring has:
> ustring.getEcoding() --> "utf-8"
>
> Is there something like "getEcoding()"?

unicode string don't have an encoding: they contain Unicode
characters, not encoded data.

(this is no different from reading an integer from, say, a
2-byte big endian field in a binary structure.  once you've
converted it to an integer, it's an integer, not a bunch of
bytes).

</F>




From jwbaxter at spamcop.net  Sat Nov  9 01:40:24 2002
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.net (John Baxter)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:40:24 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7b8f89d6.0211081548.f91b468@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036801092.6411.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jwbaxter-D30069.22402308112002@corp-radius.supernews.com>

Comments related to the thread, but not answering anyone in particular.

I was around during LISP's very early days at MIT (as one of several 
thousand people who didn't understand anything John McCarthy said beyond 
"hello" ;-)).  But I wasn't involved.  I did get involved with the odd 
little interpreted language CoMIT which the Linguistics Department was 
working with.  (And in Spring of 1958 took a class from a youngish Noam 
Chomsky.)

LISP was not as pleasant to work in then as any of the implementations 
are now:  the interpreter was run in a batch job shop environment with 
source code on cards.  The interpreter gave no results at all if one was 
even one ) short of balancing the (s.  Meaning that it was easy to spot 
the LISP users:  they walked around with cards full of )s in their 
pockets to slap onto card decks.  [The interpreter gave some sort of 
information and results if it saw too many )s.]

If I had my choice and the time to do so, I'd probably do nearly 
everything in LISP...as it is I haven't used LISP since Mac Common LISP 
moved on from Apple Cambridge.

I spent lots of time with Forth in the late 70s to mid 1980s, as a hobby 
(and an excuse for lunch gatherings with Guy Kelly et al).

I've also exercised Smalltalk...I wouldn't be likely to do everything in 
Smalltalk, although I like the language and might do something in it.

The rainfall recorder I use now (nothing fancy:  manual entry of 
readings from the $2.95 high-imprecision rain guage) began in MacForth 
in 1989, moved to SmallTalk, moved on to Prograph, to MacApp (Pascal 
form) for a while, and back to the Prograph version which I still use.

We were using Perl heavily when I stumbled onto Python.  How?  Well, the 
Bellevue, WA, Tower Books suffered water damage in a rain, and the 
water-damaged "Programming Python" was priced to sell (before it 
rotted).  I found I liked the language, showed it to the boss, and 
...now we do Python (starting before 1.5).  [We were an early corporate 
member of PSA, and I was a member, despite the odd methods one had to 
use to join and pay. ;-)]

Why Python and not the others?  No deep Computer Science reasons (CS 
didn't exist yet in my college years).

Rather:  Python just feels right.

  --John (who uses RPN calculators and can't manage Algebraic ones)


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Wed Nov 20 19:40:17 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 00:40:17 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:

> 
> > This initial investment is unlikely to be made even by many professional
> > programmers who might well profit from using CL, let alone normal users who
> > just want to customize their applications, or scientists who need to do a bit
> > of programming to handle their data.
> 
> Gotcha. well to me this is more about the many libraries available off the
> shelf for Python or Perl thx to the great open source phenomenon, not about CL
> being harder to learn.

No, I don't think libraries are key. For example, I can imagine plenty of
reasons why CL is much better suited for numerics than python. It has a more
sophisticated number system, it produces faster code and macros would make it
feasible to write extremely readable code (even with infix, postfix and
what-have-you) that gets simplified and compiled to something very efficient
(a la the series package, e.g.). Plus, it has resumable exceptions (quite
important if you have just calculated something in an interactive session and
it took 5 hours) and its interactive features are still better in many
regards, making it more suitable for exploratory programming. 

Python, OTOH, doesn't allow the definition of new operators, hasn't got
multimethods and doesn't even lift constant expressions out of
loops. Nonetheless, there is now a quite vital scientific community in python
and I doubt that the fact that python generally has more libraries was of
prime importance (what you mainly need are good numerical libraries and
plotting; good plotting python still doesn't have and the numerical libraries
are largely there because scientists have been attracted to python, not the
other way around). CL even has freely available (albeit superficially dodgy
looking) lapack bindings and a library for infix math. I expect that the
impact of the numeric community will over the next couple of years resolve
many of the performance issues python currently has. I might be wrong, but if
I'm not CL could loose yet another one of its remaining key advantages (being
high-level but quite fast).


> 
> 
> > I really wonder what your basis for thinking CL to be very approachable
> > is. Specifically, what language(s) do you think would be *less* approachable
> > to a "normal" person than CL? Even perl, which is hideously complex (unlike CL
> > which is complex, without being hideous), is more approachable in that you can
> > do something worthwhile without learning much about Perl ...
> 
> Again this is because of the library code available, yes?

Only partly. Perl is useful *without* any libraries and (much) programming
competence (pace Naggum). That is because it was originally designed to solve
a particular and relatively narrow problem. That is, you could use it for
something productively while learning it. Specifically, "productively" means
*better* than other stuff you already knew or would need to invest an equal
amount of time in order to learn.

> 
> > How about the following criteria for approachability of a language:
> > 1. it should be easy to do conceptually simple and common things
> 
> > 2. it should be easy to do something useful with it
> > 3. it should be easy to read other peoples code
> > 4. it shouldn't have too many surprises in store (e.g. undefined behavior)
> > I think CL fails on all these criteria, for example:
> 
> > 1. operations on files and directories.
> 
> 
> I don't deal much with that sort of thing in my apps, but I did do a poor
> man's project manager for a CL (before I got up to speed on DEFSYSTEM) and I
> do not recall any problem If Python has a lot of that, is that because it was
> developed for that kind of thing?

Python was developed as a scripting language, so yes. You might not have had a
problem with it, but explain it to unclued windows user (and I think he'll
also have to download some extra libraries to have certain rather basic
operations available in a portable manner).

> 
> 
> > 2. try to write something in 1-100 lines in CL that couldn't easier be
> >    written in e.g. python.
> 
> I am guessing you mean something where the Python programmer would be able to
> call on libraries? Mind you, I am just getting started on Python, but CL can
> do quite a bit in a little code if you are just talking algorithms. Maybe we
> should have a code-off (ala cook-off). :)
> 

Anything that is actually useful will do (no need to involve lots of
libraries). I'm all open for code comparisons, which are often quite
instructive. 

> 
> > 3. just think of how many ways there are to express quite similar
> >    conditional or looping constructs.
> 
> You mean if, when, and cond? when you can ignore, tho most of us consider it
> more self-documenting. cond is just if-elseif-if.
> 

Well, of course there are more (unless, ecase, case, typecase etc.), and
learning all the looping constructs presumably takes longer than to learn the
basics of python. But it is not just that there are more constructs (I don't,
in fact, see much of a problem with if/unless/when/cond, because I think it is
relatively clear which one to use in a particular situation; looping is a
different matter, though), it is also that you can express relatively simple
operations with them in many more ways than in python (because python clearly
distinguishes between statements and expressions). This comes of course at a
cost, but that really simple things almost invaribly look the same in python
is a great plus (not just over CL but also over perl).

> 
> Dolist, dotimes, and the multi-variant do? I don't use Loop, but I think I'll
> break down (after seven years!) and learn it RSN.

:)

> 
> 
> Anyway, is a rich language less approachable? I just started with a subset and
> was productive right away (meaning that as I learned more I had a laugh
> looking at code written in the early days).
> 
> 
> > 4. try e.g. modifying constant lists or writing a LOOP with undefined
> >    behavior, or modifying the (string) keys in a hash-table.
> 
> So use C++ and you won't shoot yourself in the foot (or get much done either
> <g>)

What??? C++ and not shooting oneself in the foot? You're surely joking?

> 
> 
> By approachable I mean:
> 
>    the syntax is very simple: (<verb> noun noun ...)


Yeah and assembler syntax is also real simple. Of course assembler syntax is
*always* really simple, unlike say, CL which sports LOOP and FORMAT,
readtables etc.

I have always been baffled by CLers praising the accessibility of lisp's
simple syntax in the same breadth with LOOP and FORMAT (and the syntactic
malleability of CL thanks to macros and readtables in general) :)

And of course simple syntax != approachable. In fact there are at least two
reasons why:

1) it's unfamiliar
2) more importantly: it's easier to write down things that are syntactically
   legal but don't make sense (which is why the pedagogically oriented plt
   people offer only crippled scheme in beginner mode, if I remember right).

Also, our visual system just can't parse 8 trailing ')'s. [Yes I know, people
go by indentation and so do I when I write (emacs)-lisp, and I concede that
all the parens are not as much as an issue as people would have you believe;
but still having things in your code for the benefit of your editor rather
than yourself seems in violation of SICPs famous commandment about programs
being there first and foremost for humans to read. Furthermore, if the parens
are really no problem at all, why do next to all scheme's now (stupidly, I
think) allow '[' and ']' as alternatives?].

I'd be really interested to see what some prefix based mixture between python
and lisp would look like, BTW...


> 
>    interactive (I would say interpreted but in fact some CLs silently compile
>    interactive forms and execute the binary)

Yep, violent agreement here and indeed I wouldn't even consider using a
language that isn't interactive.

> 
> 
>    documentation available at a keystroke, and apropos to search for stuff you
>    suspect is in the language

Yep agreement again, and of course python has docstrings and the corresponding
facilities (unlike say, scheme which for that reason alone sucks [just to add
a bit more controversy :)).

> 
> 
>    true garbage collection (I am /not/ looking forward to reference counting
>    or the hoops one has to jump thru to handle cyclic refs)

Python's gc might be crap, but not in a way that affects your programming
(unless you write C-extensions), since cyclic refs are handled fine, since
some time now.

> 
> 
>    untyped variables

Well, maybe assembler (or perl) is really what you're after then :) (Maybe I'm
wrong, but I thought that the "correct" usage is that both CL and python are
strongly but dynamically typed?).

> 
> Stuff like that. But I am just talking about the language per se, not what
> libraries are available off the shelf. I lean, Lisp is growing, libraries will
> follow. It's a bootstrapping process: more Lispers ->
> 
> more libraries -> more Lispers. And that /will/ be welcome.

Hmm, but what makes you so optimistic that this will happen (it would be nice,
I have to admit)? I mean, CL has been around for quite some time, without ever
catching on, despite the fact that it offered *enormous* advantages over
languages that where more common at the time (C(++), Pascal etc.), maybe first
and foremost gc. By now that gap has narrowed considerably, python, ruby and
even perl (yuck) share many of the key benefits of CL, but not many of its
deficits. So why would you expect people to switch now, for apparently less
pressing reasons then say, 5 or 10 years ago?

I suspect one could try to argue that the success of java/perl/python (all
really just dumbed down versions of CL, a Lisper might say), has helped to
overcome many of the silly prejudices that prevented lisp's adoption. In other
words CL was too far ahead of its time, but now that everything is moving into
its general direction, one might as well go for the real thing. I'm not
entirely sure that I buy this argument, but maybe there is something to it.

I'm certainly willing to concede that CL still has many strong points when
compared to python, but I think Lispers are too ready to dismiss the fact that
the reverse is also true, *ignoring* popularity and availability of
libraries. I think a (informed) discussion of the respective strengths and
weaknesses of CL vs. python might be quite instructive, for both CLers and
pythonistas.


alex

-- 
Alexander Schmolck     Postgraduate Research Student
                       Department of Computer Science
                       University of Exeter
A.Schmolck at gmx.net     http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/people/aschmolc/


From =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?=  Tue Nov 26 17:51:53 2002
From: =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?= (=?iso-8859-5?Q?=B4=D0=DC=F8=D0=DD_=B3=2E?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:51:53 +0100
Subject: mod python question
References: <as0tck$n4hst$1@ID-75083.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3de3fb09$1@news.mt.net.mk>

> I have the example from the mod python tutorial

...

><Directory /var/www/html/python> 
>   AddHandler python-program .py
>   PythonHandler mptest 
>   PythonDebug On 
></Directory>

...

><Location /python> 
>   AddHandler python-program .py
>   PythonHandler mptest 
>   PythonDebug On 
></Location>


if the PythonHandler is in a <Directory/> section it automatically adds
that directory to python's module-search-path.

Obviosly it can do that for a <Location/> section because the location doesn't
corespond to any directory. thus mod_python can't find your script
mptest.py. 

You should either, put mptest.py somewhere python will search for by
default (like site-packages...), or add the "PythonPath ..." directive 
in the <Location/> section.



-- 
??????

????,
   ??? ?? ???? ?? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ?? ?? ???????,
   ???????? ?? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ?????,
   ? ??????? ?? ?? ?????????? ?????.



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Sun Nov 17 17:41:35 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:41:35 +0000
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net> <mailman.1037506706.23922.python-list@python.org> <3DD7B7E8.2020402@attglobal.net> <mailman.1037549243.6024.python-list@python.org> <3DD7F1D4.4090201@attglobal.net> <mailman.1037567425.19485.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gj6gtuso5907rkcf6vcos9huostv90167k@4ax.com>

On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:09:25 -0600, John Hunter
<jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>>>>>> "Pierre" == Pierre Rouleau <pieroul at attglobal.net> writes:
>
>    >> However, the builtin sort is not stable,
>    Pierre> In what sense?
>
>A stable sort is one in which 2 elements that compare equal have their
>relative order preserved in the sorted and unsorted sequence.  For
>objects like numbers, strings and lists, this doesn't matter, because
>a 1 is a 1 is a 1.  Integers which compare the same in python *are the
>same*.
>
>But since python allows you to define your own comparison functions,
>two objects that compare equal may not be the same.  This becomes
>especially prominent for user defined classes with many attributes,
>where there are many possible sort criteria.  The built-in list sort
>does not guarantee anything about the relative order of these objects
>in the sorted list, and hence is not 'stable' and not deterministic in
>the sense you want.
>
>Suppose you have a class StockQuote, which has attributes price, time,
>ticker, volume.  You can write a custom comparison function to sort a
>list of stock quotes, that says 
>
>  quote1<quote2 iff quote1.price<quote2.price
>
>If you sort the list, the quotes will be arranged by price, but there
>could be many quotes at the same price in your list which are
>fundamentally different objects (eg they occurred at different times).
>A stable sort guarantees that the relative order of these quotes will
>be unchanged in the sort.
>
>The DSU pattern I refereed to above is one of the techniques people
>use to take advantage of python's built-in sort efficiency while
>guaranteeing a stable sort.
>
>Incidentally, the efficiency of sort in the yet-to-be-released
>python2.3 is rumored to be substantially improved.

I believe it has also been made stable-sort. The con is that it gobbles
up more memory.

>
>John Hunter

All the best,
G. Rodrigues


From emile at fenx.com  Sun Nov 10 09:31:29 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 06:31:29 -0800
Subject: tetris, tron and nibbles
References: <3DCE6175.2010302@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <aqlqh3$lp8$1@main.gmane.org>

polux:
> are there games like taht written in Tkinter for example ?
> 


If your interest is mainly games, you'll want to take a look at

http://www.pygame.org/

But pygame uses SDL not tkinter

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------






From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 22 01:28:40 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:28:40 -0800
Subject: Web Tracking in Python
References: <mailman.1037912231.7883.python-list@python.org> <arkchl$2d4v$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <3DDDCE98.F974D415@alcyone.com>

Glen Murphy wrote:

> Get a copy of winrar (free) - does .tar files fine. I tested it on
> follow,
> and all I had to do was open the .tar, then open the file contained
> within
> (which spawned another winrar window with the necessary files)

WinZip can unpack .tar, .tar.Z, and .tar.gz files, as well.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If the sky should fall, hold up your hands.
\__/ (a Spanish proverb)
    HardScience.info / http://www.hardscience.info/
 The best hard science Web sites that the Web has to offer.


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov 26 10:10:03 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:10:03 -0600
Subject: Newbie IDLE - import issues
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302F89DF6@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Kenny Tilton [mailto:ktilton at nyc.rr.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:10 AM
> 
> sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> >>From: Kenny Tilton [mailto:ktilton at nyc.rr.com]
> >>Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 8:34 AM
> >>
> >>I must misunderstand things badly.
> >>
> >>Using IDLE: I have import statements where apparently 
> >>necessary. I hit Ctrl-F5 and I see print statements at
> >>the end of imported modules fire.
> >>
> >>But I still get errors on imported stuff being undefined.
> >>
> >>Then I open the imported file and ^f5 it and then I can ^f5 
> >>successfully the importing file which before gave me an error.
> >>
> >>any help with this would be appreciated. As is I end up 
> >>having to open ten files and run them manually every morning.
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > Without more information ("detailed" information :-)
> 
> understood. i'll put together a reproducible if necesaary, 
> but it will mean a lot of winnowing. just thought i'd check
> first if someone would say, "oh, right, import doesn't work
> in IDLE" <g>


heh, feer not, imports work in IDLE just fine :-)


> 
> > I can only say that this sounds like some module you're
> > trying to import isn't in your sys.path.
> 
> no, but I supply the path:
> 
>    import cells.cell
> 


Ahh! I *almost* know what's going on...


> and cells /is/ in the path. (inside the python directory, in 
> fact.) Like I said, I /see/ print statements at the end of each
> imported module firing, so it's not as if Python aint finding
> the files. (and it gives an error anyway if it does not.)


does the "cells" directory have a "__init__.py" file, even if
it's an empty file?  Since your using "cells" as a "package"
(a "module of modules", if you will), it needs a "__init__.py"
file to indicate the fact to the importer.


> 
> > BUT, since
> > you load it in IDLE and <F5> it, and *then* load (into
> > IDLE I suppose) the "importer" module, and now it runs
> > correctly, everything works as it should.
> 
> You gave me an idea. Suppose my import statements are messed 
> up somehow, so by themselves they pull things into the wrong
> namespace.  But then I open the imported file and f5 it. Now
> it gets pulled into some more accessible namespace. When I
> re-f5 the file with the bad imports, it does not matter because
> the more accessible namespace has the right stuff.
> 
> And since I /see/ the necessary imported print statements 
> fire, ie, the ones which have the missing declarations, that
> suggests that my mess-up might indeed be which namespace my
> import statements point to. I mention this because I happened
> to look at some IDLE source and I saw all the from/import
> statements as part of a class definition, and I have been 
> putting my import statements (trying both from and import) at the 
> toplevel of my source, outside any other definition.
> 
> > And, with more information we might help s'more ;-)
> 
> understood my OP was deficient, as is this one. i'll cobble 
> together a reproducible next if nothing above is a red flag.
> 
> thx, kenny
> 


I think it's your package import thingy, does it match?

-gustavo



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 21 16:46:02 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 21:46:02 GMT
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7?
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:43:17 +1000 (est), Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote:

>On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, dsavitsk wrote:
>
>> as I say, the site i am testing is on a computer not 8 inches from the
>> FreeBSD one (attached to the same kvm no less).  The files must traverse
>> nearly 6 feet of cable, 3 other computers were able to download much more
>> quickly, and the freebsd one has failed all day (even switching network
>> cable and spots in the switch).
>>
>> further, for a 2 meg file on
>>
>> Python 2.2.1 (#1, Oct  5 2002, 11:19:44)
>> [GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>> >>> import os
>> >>> os.system('/usr/local/bin/wget
>> "http://192.168.0.4/index.asp?file=name" -O file.ext')
>>
>> takes less than 2 seconds
>>
>> while

>> >>> f = open('file2.ext', 'w')
>> >>> u = urllib.urlopen("http://192.168.0.4/index.asp?file=name")
>> >>> f.write(u.read())
>> >>> f.close()
>>

Taking Andrew's clue (below) re memory allocation,
how about (untested)

    f = open('file2.ext', 'w')
    u = urllib.urlopen("http://192.168.0.4/index.asp?file=name")
    f.writelines(u.xreadlines())
    f.close()

which should do some readahead chunking but should loop over line reads and writes
without building a monster string in memory. (or are writelines/xreadlines available
in 2.2.1? If not, you could do the corresponding manually). Or you could try to
second guess OS buffering by moving data in binary 512*n-sized chunks etc. BTW, I wonder
how a memory mapped output file would work -- whether the OS is smart enough to
get some of the writing work done speculatively as you go, or just marks for later
write when closed.

>> takes about 2 minutes
>>
>> so, it seems that using wget is the proper way to preceed, but i would
>> rather a python solution.
>
>I can't test this at the moment, but you should be aware that your python
>approach is doing something quite different from wget in processing this
>download - it is reading _the_whole_file_ into memory, and then writing it
>out in one fell swoop, rather than reading & writing a block at a time
>(which is how wget & fetch would be doing this).  The writing part will be
>fast, but the building of the in-memory image of the file _may_ be
>happening in such a way that the memory image is constantly being
>increased in size to cope with incoming data.
>
>Various platform realloc() library routines have radically different
>performance behaviours in the face of such memory allocation strategies,
>usually unfavourable.  While the FreeBSD memory allocation routines are
>decent, Python has exposed unfavourable performance behavour on FreeBSD in
>other situations.  FreeBSD is not alone in this - Python has managed to
>provoke memory allocation issues on most platforms, which have
>progressively been worked around as they've been identified.
>
>Some memory allocation changes were made for 2.2.2 which did improve
>performance on FreeBSD in certain scenarios, but I doubt your usage would
>be affected.  Still, I would like to know if 2.2.2 helps if you are able
>to test it (and I would recommend the upgrade from 2.2.1 in any case).
>
>--
>Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
>E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
>        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
>Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia
>
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 13 04:05:18 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 09:05:18 GMT
Subject: newbie question: how to get directory of script?
References: <4cce07d5.0211120957.6d4934@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqt4ke$j9b$0@216.39.172.122>

On 12 Nov 2002 09:57:43 -0800, animeshk at yahoo.com (animeshk) wrote:

>I'm sure this has been asked and answered a few zillion times: sorry!
>
>I want to be able to get the path of the script I am running (the idea
>is that I might have a data file or an ini file sitting in the same
>directory as the py file).  Okay . . . so how do I get it?  BTW, I am
>running Python 2.2.2 under Windows XP, with the wincom extensions.
>
>The docs said that sys.argv[0] should have the name of the script and,
>depending on the platform, the full path.  Nope: sys.argv[0] has the
>full path of python.exe (this is occurring within the Wing IDE
>environment, within PythonWin, and even from the command line).
>
>The docs also said that sys.path[0] should have the directory of the
>script.  Again, nope: it has the directory of python.exe.  However, I
>saw the directory of the script in sys.path[1].  Problem: this works
>fine from the command line and from within the Wing IDE, but not in
>PythonWin (PythonWin sets sys.path[1] to '').
>
>So . . . is there some "official"/"safe"/"standard" way of getting
>this information?  Thanks!

os.path.abspath(sys.argv[0]) would be my guess for the executing script.

What does the following do when you run it on your system from the
command line? On NT4 with Python 2.2.2, if I invoke it with python
or by file association with the script name only, I get the same output
to both screen and the junk.txt file. If I substitute pythonw in place
of python with the rest the same, there is no output to the screen, but
the file output is the same.

# pathtest.py
if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys, os
    f = file('junk.txt','w', 0)
    print 'argv =', sys.argv
    f.write('argv = %s\n' % sys.argv)
    i = 0
    for arg in sys.argv:
        print '%2d: %s' % (i, os.path.abspath(arg))
        f.write('%2d: %s\n' % (i, os.path.abspath(arg)))
        i = i + 1
    f.close()

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Nov 27 13:22:19 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:22:19 -0600
Subject: More pythonic way to change an element of a tuple?
In-Reply-To: <as314e$c4u$2@naig.caltech.edu>
References: <as314e$c4u$2@naig.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <20021127182218.GD9830@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 09:58:44AM -0800, Richard Muller wrote:
> I frequently have to change a single element of a tuple, and I wind up 
> doing something like this:

Then you should probably ask yourself why you're using a tuple.*

Otherwise, toss it in a function and forget about the complexity.

def mutate_tuple(t, i, v):
    t = list(t)
    t[i] = v
    return tuple(t)

def increment_tuple_item(t, i):
    return mutate_tuple(t, i, t[i]+1)

data_in_tuple = increment_tuple_item(data_in_tuple, item)

If you want to index a dict by these things, then why not make your
"dict" a subclass of dict and use lists?

    class my_dict(dict):
        def __getitem__(self, i):
            if isinstance(i, list): i = tuple(i)
            return dict.__getitem__(i)

        def __setitem__(self, i, v):
            if isinstance(i, list): i = tuple(i)
            return dict.__setitem__(i, v)
        [and so on for other methods you care about]

Of course, if you "mutate" your "tuples" less frequently than you access
the dict with them, this will likely be slower, since you have the
tuple() call once per get/set, instead of once per "mutate".

You could also hide this in a class.
    class MutableTuple:
        def __init__(self, t): self.t = t

        # Set up minimum code to act as a dict key
        def __hash__(self): return hash(self.t)
        def __cmp__(self, other): return cmp(self.t, other)

        # And the method to mutate
        def inc(self, i):
            self.t = increment_tuple_item(self.t, i)

Now, if you have mt = MutableTuple(...), you can index a dict by it
    >>> d = {(1,2,3): 1, (1,2,4): 0}
    >>> mt = MutableTuple((1,2,3))
    >>> print d[mt]
    1
    >>> mt.inc(2)
    >>> print d[mt]
    0
and you can use mt.t as a key when setting/changing dictionary keys:
    >>> d[mt.t] = 2
    >>> print d
    {(1, 2, 3): 1, (1, 2, 4): 2}
    >>> print d[mt]
    2

Jeff



From costanza at web.de  Mon Nov 25 07:54:23 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:54:23 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <mailman.1037993694.2261.python-list@python.org> <arm9oa$but$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <6qyD9.60432$Yw.2729711@news2.tin.it> <armdko$jgb$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <KsLD9.44802$744.1610007@news1.tin.it> <arrhh6$hur$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <d9dE9.68529$Yw.3238316@news2.tin.it> <arru5q$cl5$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <d6nE9.51628$744.1888267@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DE21D7F.2050006@web.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Pascal Costanza wrote:
>    ...
> 
>>>>Er, I have thought that's exactly the point. What do you need a
>>>>backstage language for that is less powerful than the frontstage
>>>>language?
>>>
>    ...
> 
>>Languages like C and assembler are more powerful than, say, Python
>>because they allow you to circumvent type restrictions and fiddle with
>>the operating system level.
[...]

> Having the whole
> VM be in CL seems a different, separate project, with benefits
> and costs different from the "CL for extensions" project -- e.g.
> among the benefits the ability to use any CL implementation rather
> than being tied to one or a few that supply the FFI you want,
> among the costs the need to recode all the currently-C-coded Python 
> standard library modules which, in a "CL for extensions" setting, 
> you could simply reuse without any effort.
> 
> 
> 
>>So my mental model is as follows: Scripting languages allow you to
>>solve, say, 90% of the problems in straightforward and simple ways.
>>However, some problems are complicated or demanding enough that you (or
>>"someone";) needs to revert to the more powerful backstage language.
> 
> 
> I think this model lacks the key features of speed and code reuse.
> 
> 
>>I don't see how Java can play this role for Python because Java neither
>>allows you to fiddle with the machine level nor allows for writing
>>complicated algorithms, at least not when compared to Python.
[...]

>>Or is there something I miss?
> 
> 
> I think so and I've tried to show why.
[...]

You have given very useful comments, and I think they help to sort some 
things out.

So what I have in mind is not only a way to make use of Common Lisp 
libraries from Python. I am pretty sure that this is already possible. I 
rather think that implementing Python in Common Lisp has several 
advantages beyond mere reuse options. Here are some ideas.

* Common Lisp provides the notion of method combinations. In LisPython 
it would be possible to use these method combinations for method written 
in Python. Here is something I can already do in my CL-based JVM 
implementation.

(define-java-method m :before (...)
   (...))

This defines code that gets executed before each invocation of the 
method m. (You can also have :after and :around methods. It's not 
exactly as illustrated, but it's close.)

So we could, for example, also have.

(define-python-method m :after (...)
   (...))

You could also define your own method combinations. (There's not enough 
space here to explain the whole concept of method combinations.) For 
example, this allows you to implement your own orthogonal persistence 
layer without the need to change existing Java/Python classes. (Ah, yes, 
and there's also the MOP... ;)

* Common Lisp has a sophisticated exception handling mechanism that 
allows you to tweak the stack and environment and then try to restart 
the code that has caused the exception. For example, this can be useful 
for long-running code. (Imagine your code has been doing some 
calculations during the last few days and throws an exception. You would 
be happy if you wouldn't need to restart the whole calculation again, 
but only the portion that caused the exception.)

...and there are some other powerful Common Lisp features that could be 
useful for Python. Even if you would only use such a LisPython during 
development it would provide some benefits because of the nice and 
powerful Common Lisp IDEs.


Pascal

-- 
Pascal Costanza               University of Bonn
mailto:costanza at web.de        Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de  R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)



From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Nov 26 02:46:59 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:46:59 -0800
Subject: some questions....
In-Reply-To: <sk76uukvis36m9d0vvinnoc8132l34jtma@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <00e401c29520$00669490$21795418@dell1700>

Tim Roberts wrote:

> >if __name__ == '__main__':
> >    a = 3;
> >    b = 4;
> >    c = simple(a)
> 
> At this point, the variable "C" does not exist.  That's why you get an
> error.  What surprises ME is that it was able to find "c".  What that
> tells me is that the interpreter creates the object, assigns it to
"c",
> and THEN calls __init__.  __init__, then, is able to find the global
> variable "c".

Tim, you have gone completely crazy and I fear that you might spread
your insanity to others :-)

Look at the constructor implementation again. Those print statements are
not executed unless the constructor is called with 4 as an argument.
That doesn't happen until after c has been assigned.

Cheers,
Brian




From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Thu Nov 21 19:49:30 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:49:30 -0800
Subject: static variables?
In-Reply-To: <3DDD6AD7.2020400@alcyone.com>
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1037919455.17053.python-list@python.org> <3DDD6AD7.2020400@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <200211220049.QAA23780@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Thursday 21 November 2002 15:23, Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Well, there are certainly other behaviors that have been changed when it
> was realized that they presented problems (such as the rather
> controversial upcoming change of integer division). 

True, but orthogonal to the point we are discussing.  Put aside whether or 
not the current behavior should be changed (because it almost certainly WON'T 
be changed).  The discussion you brought up is about why things are the way 
they are.  (FWIW, it would have been just as easy to implement division to 
always coerce to float;  I think the decision may have been based on 
potential performance issues, rather than ease of implementation.  Back in 
1991, floats were still very expensive compared to ints)

> In other words, I
> don't really see any evidence that the current behavior was a conscious
> decision made anywhere beyond the point of, "This is the easiest way to
> do it."

Fair enough.  But perhaps thought Guido simply thought, "Well, this is the 
most natural and consistent way to implement them."  After all, they are 
simply expressions, and all expressions in Python are evaluated immediately 
upon their execution.  This is a fundamentally different thought process than 
"this is easiest", even if the results are often exactly the same.

If Guido had wanted delayed, on-demand evaluation of expressions, it may have 
been easy to add (we already have much of the infrastructure for such a 
thing), and such a thing would be very useful for many wish list items (such 
as more flexible default argument passing, shortcutting ternary assignments, 
flexible function currying).  But it also leads to complications in the use 
of the language,  and perhaps was rejected for those reasons, not because it 
wasn't easy to implement.

So, I guess what I'm saying is don't take lack of evidence to mean proof of 
anything.

> True it would involve more overhead, but if you have to create new
> objects manually anyway, you obviously have to incur the same overhead,
> so this doesn't really seem to be a real objection.

Yes, and I'm not objecting to the usefullness of this particular behavior, if 
it had been the standard.  That is another issue, and many are in agreement 
with you about it.  But I think saying it was solely a matter of doing the 
easiest thing to implement is not an (obviously) accurate statement.  It 
makes perfect sense, from a design issue, given python's many other design 
choices.

That said, I would LOVE to discuss adding delayed evaluation to the language. 
 It would be the answer to many a requested feature.  But it would add 
complication to the laguage itself.

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 20 19:46:02 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 00:46:02 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <areli6$ris$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnatlo5h.r3b.grante@localhost.localdomain> <arg8nn$kr2$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddba9d6$0$4464$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnato32g.dip.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <slrnatob8j.rni.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <slrnato32g.dip.rmunn at rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>, Robin Munn wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I've seen plenty of apps that assume it doesn't wait all the
>> time.  If I had a C compiler and knew how to write a simple
>> console app for Win32, it would be easy enough to figure out
>> how it really does work.  The Win32 guys I work with directly
>> all write device drivers and none of them know how the
>> user-land API works.
> 
> Google for "lcc-win32"; it's a complete IDE for Windows C/C++
> development. It should be enough to let you produce some kind of simple
> console app, at the very least.

I've got Borland C++ 5.01 installed.  I've managed to compile and run a
16-bit DOS "hello world" program, but I'm at a loss how to build a Win32
console app.  I can't believe people pay money for these "IDE" things...

If I can't get Borland to work, I'll try lcc-win32.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Okay... I'm going
                                  at               home to write the "I HATE
                               visi.com            RUBIK's CUBE HANDBOOK FOR
                                                   DEAD CAT LOVERS"...


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Nov  6 05:29:49 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:29:49 +0100
Subject: How to use zipfile
References: <3dc8c6b3$1@shknews01>
Message-ID: <aqas0j$ghp$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:36:33 +0800, "Jack Lau" <jack98lau at hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I am a beginner to learn python. Could anyone tell me how to use zipfile. I
>want to zip a file like "a.txt" and zipped it into "abc.zip". Then how can I
>do ?

Yes, I know this problem! It's a bootstrapping problem, the docs give
all kinds of detailed information but since there's no example script
it's hard to start experimenting with the functionality. So you have
to start googling, grepping sourcecode etc. to find an example script
to start from.

But ...

Do you realize you provided this list with the same kind of problem?
It's always easier to answer if there's at least a few lines of code
however erroneously it may be, to start answering from.

Now, to give some code to start experimenting with I just grabbed some
code from one of my projects as an example. Please try to produce a
few lines of code after having read it before asking the next question
...

Regards,
		AV.

def makeziparchive():
    sgfdir = 'sgffiles/'
    releasedir = '../release/'
    filenames = [ 'test38x38.sgf', 'test9x9.sgf', 'test13x13.sgf',
                       'Hon-1941-1.sgf', 'pygobo.pyw', 'sgfparser.py',
                       'last.pyw', 'readme.html','changes.html']
    z = ZipFile(releasedir + 'pygobo011.zip', 'w')
    for filename in filenames:
        name, ext = splitext(filename)
        if ext == '.sgf':
            filename = sgfdir + filename
            z.write('../'+filename,'pygobo/'+filename, ZIP_DEFLATED)
        else:
            z.write(filename,'pygobo/'+filename, ZIP_DEFLATED)
    z.close()



From costanza at web.de  Tue Nov 12 17:32:28 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:32:28 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de> <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <3DD0D765.3030907@web.de> <3DD16CAF.41214BBA@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <aqrvhs$mqf$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Pascal Costanza wrote:
> 
>>You're right, but I wanted to avoid to explain the difference between
>>'
>>and #'. These examples are only meant to give a first taste of Lisp.
> 
> Note that for "first tastes," Scheme is probably a better introduction
> (if you're only learning Lisp-like languages for their own sake, that
> is, rather than trying to learn a language skill you want to sell). 
> Scheme doesn't have this distinction between a symbol and the function
> associated with it, so there's no distinction between ' and #'.

...but that results in other problems, like the need for hygienic 
macros, and so on. I rather prefer Common Lisp, because it's much more 
pragmatic IMHO, and I think it's easy to learn as well if you have a 
good tutorial. (And there are several on the web...)


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From cguardia at aldeasystems.com  Wed Nov 27 01:28:34 2002
From: cguardia at aldeasystems.com (cguardia)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:28:34 -0500
Subject: help with https connection through proxy with IIS
Message-ID: <20021127062834.M58247@aldeasystems.com>

Hi,

I've run into an unsolvable (for me, that is) problem when trying to 
connect to a web server (Apache works fine, but it has to be IIS) through 
a proxy using the https protocol and certificates. Maybe someone on the 
list has experienced something similar and can shed some light for me.

I'm using python 2.2 with a patched httplib. Here is a small description 
of what I have tried so far:

1. My httplib is patched with patch no. 515003 ("Better documentation for 
the patched httplib.py"). I further modified the code, removing every 
line with "skip_host=...", since the library didn't seem to work with 
those lines in there.
2. I tried to connect to a web server through the Squid proxy using basic 
authentication. The server also requires a client certificate to allow 
the connection to take place.

I found that:

a. Using Apache, both GET and POST requests work perfectly.
b. When using IIS, neither of those request methods works. POST sends 
back a 200 status code, but with an empty response instead of OK, and no 
content. GET has exactly the same problem. Here is a POST example:

>>> 
conn=httplib.HTTPSProxyConnection("svrcvca:3128","dell-latitude",port=443,
....             key_file='ISS_Aut_Desarrollo_Dell-latitude.pem',
....             cert_file='ISS_Aut_Desarrollo_Dell-latitude.pem')
>>> conn.set_debuglevel(9)
>>> conn.connect()
connect: (svrcvca, 3128)
send: 'CONNECT dell-latitude:443 HTTP/1.1\r\n'
send: 'Host: dell-latitude:443\r\n'
send: 'Accept-Encoding: identity\r\n'
send: '\r\n'
reply: 'HTTP/1.0 200 Connection established\r\n'
Enter PEM pass phrase:
>>> conn.request("POST","/Scripts/PruebaISS.py",body,headers=headers)
send: 'POST /Scripts/PruebaISS.py HTTP/1.1\r\n'
send: 'Host: dell-latitude:443\r\n'
send: 'Accept-Encoding: identity\r\n'
send: 'Content-Length: 64\r\n'
send: 'Accept: text/plain,text/html\r\n'
send: 'Content-type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded\r\n'
send: 'AUTHORIZATION: Basic aXNhYWM6c2Fsc2Jlcmc=\r\n'
send: '\r\n'
send: 'sexo=X&email=3l+ded+yahoo&name=juancho+pere3z&checkboxito=nagual'
>>> resp=conn.getresponse()
reply: ''
>>> resp.status,resp.reason # Note the empty resp.reason
(200, '')
>>> data=resp.read() # Ya no se puede leer la respuesta
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/httplib.py", line 249, in read
    value = value + self._safe_read(chunk_left)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/httplib.py", line 317, in _safe_read
    chunk = self.fp.read(amt)
TypeError: an integer is required

3. If I don't request a client certificate, POST works, but GET doesn't 
(it keeps waiting forever for a response).

If anyone knows anything that can help me solve this problem I will 
really appreciate it. Thanks very much.

--
Carlos de la Guardia
Aldea Systems




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Nov 26 11:33:06 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:33:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: if <assignment>:
In-Reply-To: <200211261713.00298.bhards@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211260826440.5831-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Brad Hards wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:33, Delaney, Timothy wrote:
> > The most common of these are = vs ==, and just about anything to do with
> > pointer dereferencing.
> There are some useful defensive techniques. I often test for equality to a 
> constant. If you put the constant on the left side, the compiler will help 
> you:
> eg. if ( 0 == pointer) { }

Ugh! Shame on any aspect of a language that burdens the developer this
way. The fact that such strategies as the above have cropped up is, IMO, 
proof that the language is broken in that area. We don't say, "Is Tuesday 
today?" or "Is 5 your age?", either. :)

-Dave




From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Nov 12 20:05:00 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:05:00 -0800
Subject: total and utter newbie
In-Reply-To: <3DD1A2F3.1040802@cyberspace.org>
Message-ID: <000e01c28ab0$b11202e0$21795418@dell1700>

> Is there anything like a cast in Python? Just out of interest.

There is no "cast" concept if Python. There are functions and
constructors that act in that capacity though e.g.

y = float(5)

Cheers,
Brian




From bh at intevation.de  Tue Nov 19 07:17:42 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 13:17:42 +0100
Subject: Fast construction of Python list from large C array of int's -  Extension Module
References: <mailman.1037647226.1409.python-list@python.org> <TWeC9.26321$744.958668@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <6qbs4lah3t.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> quadric at primenet.com wrote:
> > PyObject * CreateListFromArray( int * array , int array_length)
> > {
> > PyObject * list = PyList_New( array_length);
> > 
> > for int i = 0 ; i < array_length ; i++ )
> >   {
> > PyList_SetItem( list , i , Py_LongFromLong( (long) array[i] )  );
> > }
> > 
> >   return list;
> > }
[...]
> > Any inherent dangers here?
> 
> Yes: not only pointer 'list', as you realize later, but also EACH pointer 
> resulting from PyLong_FromLong COULD be null, with dangerous
> results if you don't check.  Do check, and if you get any null, decref
> the ones you had previously added

Simply DECREFing the list should be enough if I recall the
implementation of the list correctly because if you create a list with
non-zero length all pointers stored in it are NULL so the destructor
knows which are actually filled with real python objects.

> and then raise out-of-memory.

The exception will already have been set by PyLong_FromLong, I think, so
CreateListFromArray should just return NULL.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/


From esobolew at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 11 05:11:29 2002
From: esobolew at hotmail.com (Bo)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 02:11:29 -0800
Subject: writing from file into dictionary
Message-ID: <186229a7.0211110211.7c639dc@posting.google.com>

Hi all!
I've just started to "play" with Python. Can someone tell me how to
read the grammar in from the file , and place it into a dictionary ?
The grammar is represented by lines where the head is separated from
the rewrite by a colon, as in the following :

start:person does something:
start:I do something:
activity:dancing:
activity:eating:  #and more 

This should be placed into a dictionary...
Thanks a lot, greetings
Bo


From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 27 13:33:46 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:33:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: *args and **kwargs
References: <uLUE9.5581$kz4.355569@news2.west.cox.net> <87d6orq0oz.fsf@uiuc.edu> <_S7F9.14648$kz4.657484@news2.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <slrnauah8l.199.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:08:58 GMT, Dan napisa?(a):
> thanks for the answer specifically for "args".  Still I don't quite
> understand the Python syntax.
> 
> *something = encapsulate into a set   ??
> **something = encapsulate into a Dictionary??
Yes, but only when defining a function. 
You can call a function in two ways (depends on a way it was defined):

def first(**a):
   print "\n".join([ "%s==%s" % (k,v) for k,v in a.items()])

first(a="b",b="c",c="d")


def second(a):
   print "\n".join([ "%s==%s" % (k,v) for k,v in a.items()])

second({"a":"b", "b":"c", "c":"d"})

In first case you know, that you need to pass a dictionary from
function's declaration (seeing **a just tells you that). In second case, 
you don't, you need to take a look at code or documentation. 
Maybe not at all, but, for sure, in some way that strange construction
is about readability.

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 17 14:43:08 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:43:08 -0700
Subject: popkey() method for dictionaries?
References: <ar7i50$3ib$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <f9068f8e.0211170458.541bfeba@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ar8rge$rer$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Janto Dreijer wrote:

> http://python.org/dev/doc/devel/whatsnew/node12.html
> Is this what you're looking for?
> 
> I love that time machine :-)

Nice  :) It's almost what I suggested, but lacks the -optional- argument for a 
default value. This really seems like an oversight to me, and it violates the 
principle of least surprise: d.get() has an optional default, but d.pop() 
does not? They are functionally almost identical, except that pop() does a 
delete afterwards. Why do these two methods have non-uniform interfaces??

I'd like to hear from one of the powers-that-be on this one. Or should a SF 
bug be filed against it?

Cheers,

f.


From boud at valdyas.org  Sat Nov 16 06:50:00 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:50:00 +0100
Subject: keyword arguments and **
References: <3dd51831$0$13642$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1037374346.22324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dd63217$0$54400$e4fe514c@dreader7.news.xs4all.nl>

John Hunter wrote:
> 
> The problem is with fields={}.  This is a famous problem that catches
> everybody at least once that is caused by using use a mutable type as
> the default value for a keyword argument.  A mutable type is one that
> can be changed (list, dict) and an immutable one is one that cannot
> (int, string, tuple, ...).

Thanks. I probably should have known better. I sort of assumed that I'd
get a new dictionary every time... I'll be implementing your suggestion
right away.
-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Nov  3 23:56:19 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 03 Nov 2002 22:56:19 -0600
Subject: Macros in Python, and using reg exps to build a scheme
	interpreter
In-Reply-To: <y8h7kfv7sdk.fsf@spinetta.mcs.anl.gov>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0210311543300.24300-100000@denali.ccs.neu.edu>
	<mailman.1036179783.13998.python-list@python.org> 
	<y8h7kfv7sdk.fsf@spinetta.mcs.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <1036385779.1178.1267.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Sat, 2002-11-02 at 12:12, Matthew Knepley wrote:
>   IB> You can create a tokenizer with regular expressions, though Scheme's tokenization rules are simple enough you
>   IB> could pretty much do it with string.find.  You can't turn the tokens into a parse tree using regular expressions,
>   IB> but the relation between tokens and parse trees in Scheme is clear enough that it should be obvious how you'll do
>   IB> that portion.
>   This is possible, but I would say that it is (in my opinion) more elegant, and certainly just as easy to write
>   the parser using PLY (Python Lex-Yacc) from David Beazley, http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/ply. It has a great
>   design which makes is really easy to do these kinds of things (making use of Python's reflection capabilities).

For Scheme I doubt it's significantly easier to write the parser with a
parser-generator than to write it by hand.  Scheme is very, very, very
easy to parse -- and if it's not easy you aren't looking at it in the
right way (e.g., 'a is equivalent to (quote a), and the parser need not
distinguish between the two in its output).

  Ian




From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov  5 13:15:49 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:15:49 GMT
Subject: List slice assignment and custom sequences
References: <mailman.1036517419.6983.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3vg3b28d1.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Ronald Oussoren <oussoren at cistron.nl> writes:

> On Tuesday, Nov 5, 2002, at 15:03 Europe/Amsterdam, Michael Hudson
> wrote:
> 
> > Ronald Oussoren <oussoren at cistron.nl> writes:
> >
> >> No, I want to replace part of a sequence by another sequence. I don't
> >> understand _why_ the RHS must be a list if the LHS is one.
> >
> > Because Objects/listobject.c:list_ass_slice pokes directly into the
> > object passed on the RHS.
> >
> > A patch to change this would have some chance of getting accepted;
> > wouldn't like to guess what, but I'd hazard non-zero.
> I sure hope so. I've posted a bug+patch at SF for a related problem:
> With the introduction of new-style classes 'isinstance(obj, list)' no
> longer guarantees that you can savely poke in the RHS instead of using
> the __getitem__ accessor function.

Well, that's gone in too, in effect.  Guido seems to be in a receptive
mood today!  It would be fun seeing what changes I could sneak in,
except I'm going to the pub :)

against-drinking-and-committing-ly y'rs
M.

-- 
  Two things I learned for sure during a particularly intense acid
  trip in my own lost youth: (1) everything is a trivial special case
  of something else; and, (2) death is a bunch of blue spheres.
                                             -- Tim Peters, 1 May 1998


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Fri Nov 15 10:12:15 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:12:15 +0000
Subject: Seeking advice on locking iterators
References: <pfg7tuoefe0vp6vo2oj2p66vm1o3tdtb86@4ax.com> <3dd3fa25$0$13656$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <d73atukrbs4778s9pbd9r9beuo8aijro91@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:29:49 +0100, Ype Kingma <ykingma at accessforall.nl>
wrote:

>Gon?alo Rodrigues schreef:
>
>> Hi,
>> 
>> My problem is the following: I have a top object Application, roughly
>> corresponding to the main thread, that spawns some child threads -
>> objects on their own sake, deriving from the Thread class in the
>> threading module. They communicate when they need to via queues in the
>> usual way. So far so nice.
>> 
>> The problem is that those same child objects expose some public
>> attributes (or properties, or methods, does not matter) that the
>> Application object may need to change/call and doing the change via the
>> queue mechanism is conceptually wrong (and a real PITA). The solution is
>> obvious: wrap the attributes with locks around it. What is not so
>> obvious is when these attributes are complex objects themselves, in
>> particular they are iterables. In order to call iter() on these objects
>> safely I coded the following helper class:
>> 
>> #WARNING: Brittle - use this at your own risk.
>> class TIter(object):
>>     """The TIter helper class, wrapping an iterator for thread safe
>> acess."""
>> 
>>     def __init__(self, lock, iterator):
>>         super(TIter, self).__init__(lock, iterator)
>>         self.__lock = lock
>>         self.__iterator = iter(iterator)
>>         #Acquire lock => You cannot change the underlying structure
>>         #while iter not exhausted.
>>         self.__lock.acquire()
>>         self.__acquired = 1
>> 
>>     #Iterator protocol.
>>     def __iter__(self):
>>         return self
>> 
>>     def next(self):
>>         try:
>>             ret = self.__iterator.next()
>>         except StopIteration:
>>             self.__lock.release()
>>             self.__acquired = 0
>>             raise StopIteration
>>         else:
>>             return ret
>> 
>>     def __del__(self):
>>         if self.__acquired:
>>             self.__lock.release()
>> 
>> The idea is that for the wrapping of a given attribute one has an
>> associated lock (a reentrant lock, usually) that is passed to the ITer
>> constructor. I have to ensure two things, though:
>> 
>> * The lock is acquired while the iterator is alive.
>> * The lock is released when the iterator is disposed of.
>> 
>> So, finally, my question is: Is the above enough to ensure this? Can I
>
>In general, no. Some reasons:
>One can never be sure from the code shown when the __del__ method will be 
>called, since this depends on when the last reference to the iterator goes 
>out of scope.
>Although CPython more or less guarantees that the __del__ method will be 
>called quite soon after the last reference goes out of scope, the language 
>by itself does not make such a guarantee. In Jython, you are at the mercy
>of a separate a garbage collecting thread in the JVM to call the __del__ 
>method, ie. it might take more than a few million CPU cycles before the 
>__del__ method is called.
>
>> be sure that __del__ is called if the iterator is garbage collected
>> before being exhausted? Or is there a better (e.g. safer) mechanism for
>> this?
>
>
>One safe way is:
>
>yourObject.lock()
>try:
>    # use an iterator on yourObject.
>finally:
>    yourObject.unlock()
>    # and don't use the iterator again.
>
>Ie. I don't see the point of locking the iterator, as you seem to want to
>lock an object, ie. one the attributes you mentioned above.
>

I want to lock the iterator because I want the wrapped object to have
the same interface as the object it wraps.

>The lock() and unlock() methods need to be added to the class of yourObject 
>for this to work.

Anyway I think I have found a solution: The problem lies in the fact
that the object I am iterating over and the iterator itself can be
different objects => while the iterator acquires the lock it may get
garbage collected before it releases it. Therefore I just wrap the
object in a way that the wrapper is its own iterator and the problem
disappears.
>
>Have fun,

I am. Python *is* fun.

>Ype

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From roy at panix.com  Sun Nov  3 21:31:04 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 21:31:04 -0500
Subject: can't assign value to array element
References: <HoCdnRcDleGnR1igXTWcqg@ctc.net>
Message-ID: <roy-623D3B.21310403112002@reader1.panix.com>

Joe Heafner <heafnerj at spam.vnet.net> wrote:
>     y[j+1] = y+(k1+2.*k2+2.k3+k4)/6.

> When run, this code give the error "TypeError: object does not support 
> item assignment"

I didn't follow everything your code is doing, but one thing that 
doesn't make sense is that you use y as both a scalar (on the right hand 
side) and a list (on the left hand side) in the above statement.  I'm 
sure that's related to your problem.


From rainer at cs.uu.nl  Sat Nov  2 08:25:55 2002
From: rainer at cs.uu.nl (Rainer Malik)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 05:25:55 -0800
Subject: urllib problem
Message-ID: <9782a2ed.0211020525.7cffecca@posting.google.com>

hi ! 
i have a rather simple problem using urllib to POST something to a
server. my script looks like this:
def query_polyphen():

    d={ }
    d['InputQuerySequence']='>GGG \012 sequence'
    d['Var1']='C'
    d['InputQueryPosition']='282'
    d['Var2']='Y'
    d['Dbase3d']='pqs'
    d['SortByIde']='1'
    d['Map2Mismatch']='0'
    d['StructAllHits']='0'
    d['ContAllHits']='0'
    d['MinHitLen']='100'
    d['MinHitIde']='0.5'
    d['MaxHitGaps']='20'
    d['ContThresh']='6'
    d['.cgifields']='ContAllHits'
    d['.cgifields']='SortByIde'
    d['.cgifields']='StructAllHits'
    d['.cgifields']='Map2Mismatch'
    d['.cgifields']='Dbase3d'
    query=urllib.urlencode(d)
    url = 'http://tux.embl-heidelberg.de/ramensky/polyphen.cgi'
    results = urllib.urlopen(url,query).read()
    open ('/import/enterprise/home/rainer/test.html','w').write(results)


the problem i have is the following: when i call this script, i just
get the main HP of the server with the values filled in the correct
fields. but what i miss is the 'pressing of the submit button', so
that i will get the result from the server. i have no idea how this
should work.

Rainer


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 14 23:00:22 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:00:22 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD47156.683F18B3@alcyone.com>

"Simon Wittber (Maptek)" wrote:

> I disagree. C is a very simple language. Because of its simplicity,
> one
> needs to write lots of C code to achieve complicated things. Python on
> the other hand achieves complicated things using minimal code (Imagine
> having to code a list slice in C).

The C language itself is a fairly straightforward language, but
summarizing that in eight pages does not do it much justice.  The
library is fairly large, however, and certainly deserves more than eight
pages.

C++, on the other hand, is quite a complicated language, and it has
downright huge library.  As a simple comparison, consider the C99
Standard has 516 pages, the first 163 of which describe the core
language (although the appendices cover a combination of the language
and the library); the C++97 standard has 715 pages, with the core
language description ending on page 310.  Oh, by the way, C++ contains
the entire C Standard Library within it, as well.

Condensing all that to 16 pages is, well, not going to do it much
justice.  I have serious doubts about the utility of a reference
claiming

> I doubt that the C / C++ reference
> includes examples on slicing lists and using dictionaries, whereas the
> Python reference would *have* to, as these constructs are integral to
> the language.

You keep glossing over the difference between C and C++, but they are
not the same thing, and in this instance the difference in complexity
and library size is essential.  I'm guessing you're not familiar with
the Standard C++ Library, which has the equivalent of all these things
and more.

Whether or not you think C and/or C++ is more or less complicated than
Python is really beside the point I was making, and that is simply this:
Comparing a Python reference of 120 or so pages to a "C/C++" reference
of 16 pages is comparing apples and oranges, and says absolutely nothing
about the relative size or complexity of any of these languages.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The basis of optimism is sheer terror.
\__/ Oscar Wilde
    CAGE / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/cage/
 A cellular automaton simulation system in Python.


From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov  9 09:40:15 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 14:40:15 GMT
Subject: LCS algorithm
References: <3DCD1A12.4070809@nospam.net>
Message-ID: <j79z9.9729$Bs5.333616@news1.tin.it>

Drazen Gemic wrote:

> Is there an implementation of Largest Common Sequence algorithm
> in Python ? I am particulary interested in implementation that
> works for character strings.

difflib.py in the standard python library contains that, as well
as much else besides.

>>> import difflib
>>> sm = difflib.SequenceMatcher()
>>> a = 'One by one the guests arrive'
>>> b = 'The guests are coming through'
>>> sm.set_seqs(a, b)
>>> sm.find_longest_match(0, len(a), 0, len(b))
(12, 1, 12)
>>> a[12:12+12]
'he guests ar'
>>> b[1:1+12]
'he guests ar'
>>>


Alex



From gminick at hacker.pl  Thu Nov 21 10:34:00 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:34:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: how does import work ?
References: <2259b0e2.0211200633.2ed7e075@posting.google.com> <laNC9.31997$744.1183146@news1.tin.it> <2259b0e2.0211201159.24566af7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnatqcln.og.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia 20 Nov 2002 11:59:24 -0800, Michele Simionato napisa?(a):
>> > Suppose now I import ONLY the function f2, but not f1:
>> >>>> from f1f2 import f2
>> That's basically equivalent to:
>>     import f1f2
>>     f2 = f1f2.f2
>>     del f1f2
[...]
> Thanks, now it is clear.
If you want more, take a look at:
   <http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/doanddont/node2.html>
and
   <http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/built-in-funcs.html>
HTH.

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Sun Nov  3 17:10:55 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 22:10:55 GMT
Subject: Null pointer exception when instantiating Jython interpreter
Message-ID: <P9hx9.41918$Lg2.11403082@news2.news.adelphia.net>

Hello,

I'm running NetBeans 3.34 with the Sun JDK/SDK version 1.4.1_01b, on a Win
2k box.  I'm trying to integrate Jython 2.1 into my test app.  I created a
Frame where originally I tried starting the Jython interpreter when a button
was hit.  I got the error dump shown below.  I did some Google searching and
checked the Jython users mailing list archives, and saw some posts regarding
Jython and multi-threading problems.  So I moved the code that tries to
instantiate the jython interpreter into the static main() function that
creates and shows the Frame.  Same error dump.  Does anyone know what to do
here?

thx

-------------------------------------------------

Error Dump caused by line> PythonInterpreter interp = new
PythonInterpreter():

java.lang.NullPointerException
        at
org.python.core.PyJavaClass.lookup(PyJavaClass.java:39)
        at
org.python.core.PyObject.<init>(PyObject.java:46)
        at
org.python.core.PySingleton.<init>(PySingleton.java:8)
        at
org.python.core.PyNone.<init>(PyNone.java:7)
        at
org.python.core.PySystemState.initStaticFields(PySystemState.java:34)
        at
org.python.core.PySystemState.initialize(PySystemState.java:320)
        at
org.python.core.PySystemState.initialize(PySystemState.java:294)
        at
org.python.core.PySystemState.initialize(PySystemState.java:287)
        at
org.python.util.PythonInterpreter.<init>(PythonInterpreter.java:61)
        at
org.python.util.PythonInterpreter.<init>(PythonInterpreter.java:45)







From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Nov 15 03:21:34 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:21:34 -0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3lm3xqh92.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns92C75515A1912dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) 
>> OK, So too could the xml processing chain, probably in the same way.
>> By holding the url in the stylesheet and indexing off some key.
> 
> Certainly - but then we need entirely new tools (or must modify
> existing tools). Have you ever tried to modify Norman Walsh's DocBook
> XSLT stylesheets? That may be an excellent piece of software, but it
> has a complexity that is not easy to grasp (to put it mildly).

Yes, I do it regularly. Bob Stayton has recently 'published' a book on
just that subject. Its not a black art, honest. The principles are
very straight forward. 

> We are not talking about the big picture here; I happily leave views
> and architectures to others. What we are talking about is the Python
> documentation, which has small but precise needs. Being able to
> represent arbitrary characters is not a requirement at the moment.

It will be if your thoughts on internationalisation are realised.

> 
>> > I'd suggest to anybody who wants to make the Docbook transition
>> > happen to provide XSLT/CSS stylesheets that make the HTML output of
>> > Docbook look *exactly* like the current one.
>> 
>> Justification?
> 
> To proof that it can be done, and to smoothen the transition. Many
> URLs in the world point to specific pages of the documentation at
> python.org. It is desirable that as few as possible of these URLs
> break just because the formatting engine changes.

That's determined by the stylesheets, what the chunks are named.
Re your challenge, if you output is valid HTML or XHTML, it is
re-producable using XSLT and XPATH. Flat statement. The proof 
would be rather hollow, since there is no starting XML?

>  Conversion to DocBook has been studied for
> three years, atleast, and everytime this comes up, the conclusion is
> that it is not worth the effort.

With the comments made on this thread I guess it will remain a no go.
If you have the bandwidth, lurk on the docbook-apps list, hosted at 
oasis.   


>  Change to Docbook can be avoided if necessary.

Very true. Pre-determined necessity?


by the way,

http://www.sagehill.net/xml/docbookxsl/index.html is the docbook 
stylesheet homepage for Bob's material.

regards DaveP


From grante at visi.com  Sat Nov  9 12:06:41 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 17:06:41 GMT
Subject: Determining Presence Of GUI Support
References: <42aiqa.jp82.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <mailman.1036856112.6119.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasnrki.1uq.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <mailman.1036856112.6119.python-list at python.org>, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> * Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> [2002-11-09 06:40 +0000]:
>> Is there a portable method of determining whether the current runtime
>> environment supports a GUI or text-based interface?  I would like to
>> write a single program which autosenses the presentation environment
>> and works accordingly.
> 
> You can obtain wether or not you're running under X11 by checking for
> the existence of the "DISPLAY" environment variable:
> 
>>>> import os
>>>> "DISPLAY" in os.environ
> 1

Or, you could just try to initialize your GUI, and catch whatever exception
is raised when there's no GUI support in the OS environment.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  The Korean War must
                                  at               have been fun.
                               visi.com            


From dag4004 at free.fr  Tue Nov  5 12:27:34 2002
From: dag4004 at free.fr (dag4004)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:27:34 +0100
Subject: Search a SOAP module
Message-ID: <3dc7fe25$0$5127$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Hello,

I search a SOAP module, does some one use some thinks which work ?

Thanks






From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Nov 11 14:42:03 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:42:03 +0100
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqp1af$mpb$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 11 Nov 2002 07:20:20 -0800, a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya)
wrote:

>My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
>a single line of code.
>
>perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
>
>can python do something like this?

Sure, use a dictionary ...

import sys;d={0:1,1:1};[d.get(sys.stdout.write(str(d[0])+"\n"),\
d.update({0:d[0]+d[1],1:d[0]})) for i in range(10)]

Anton.




From grante at visi.com  Fri Nov 15 10:38:16 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 15:38:16 GMT
Subject: Serial Port
References: <mailman.1037306122.3207.python-list@python.org> <3dd47570$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net>
Message-ID: <3dd514e8$0$4448$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3dd47570$1 at news.nz.asiaonline.net>, Colin Brown wrote:
> 
> Hi Luca
> 
> Try PySerial - a nice multiplatform solution

On a slight tangent, anybody know where there's documentation
or examples of doing stuff like overlapped serial I/O under
Win32 with events and callbacks and suchlike in Python?  I
haven't found a copy of the Python on Win32 book yet...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Alright,
                                  at               you!! Imitate a WOUNDED
                               visi.com            SEAL pleading for a PARKING
                                                   SPACE!!


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Mon Nov 25 16:00:45 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 21:00:45 GMT
Subject: Some good Python tuts ?
References: <h5wE9.101$Tl3.2735@nlnews00.chello.com>
Message-ID: <slrnau53rs.i9.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Bram Wijnands wrote:
> well i'm looking for some good tutorials for python im not a beginning
> programmer i know perl/php/vb and basic :P
> 
> anyway got some ideas ? :)

Did you find the "Python for Beginners" page, yet?

I think it has exactly what you're looking for:

http://www.python.org/doc/Newbies.html

Have fun :-)

-- Gerhard


From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Nov 25 14:25:24 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:25:24 -0500
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
 <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org>
 <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
 <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
 <mailman.1038016601.6798.python-list@python.org>
 <7h3of8dsrkj.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <kkn49kKkXsGR092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> writes:
|> The term 'strict' has another antonym that is probably more useful:
|> 'lazy'.

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote previously:
|But I think in technical pointy-eared CS speak, 'lazy' has a technical
|meaning that differs slightly from what Haskell does.
|I used to know the difference, but I've forgotten; something like lazy
|means you evaluate a subexpression *each* time its value is used?
|Haskell doesn't do that.

There might well be a difference between "non-strict" and "lazy" that I
am unaware of.  I know these things only casually, not in a pointy-eared
CS way.

But for a pure functional language to evaluate a subexpression each
time its value is used is just plain foolish.  Since you know--by
definition once state is removed--that a subexpression will always
evaluate to the same thing, deciding never to cache that value is
pointless.  I kinda suspect that whatever "lazy" really means precisely,
it isn't "burns cycles needlessly" :-).

Yours, Lulu...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies of
the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.



From fedor at mailandnews.com  Tue Nov 26 14:10:07 2002
From: fedor at mailandnews.com (Fedor)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:10:07 +0100
Subject: readability statistics
Message-ID: <as0gvb$ort$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Hello,

Does anybody know where I can find a module 
which calculates some python code readability statistics.
Like for example:
% comment lines.
average line length
average module number of lines
etc...

Thanks,

Fedor Baart


From carel.fellinger at chello.nl  Fri Nov  8 20:12:18 2002
From: carel.fellinger at chello.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 02:12:18 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <3DCC5084.7DD4FEF3@alcyone.com>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <270c68fe.0211071328.49f8abd@posting.google.com> <3DCB2EAF.DEE7D6B6@alcyone.com> <mailman.1036768752.22350.python-list@python.org> <3DCC5084.7DD4FEF3@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20021109011218.GB9048@mail.felnet>

On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 04:02:12PM -0800, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Carel Fellinger wrote:
> 
> > Then, then:)  Some odd twenty years ago some serious money was spent
> > to prove Esperanto suited to be *the interlingua* for computer based
> > natural language translation.  Being readable was its main advantage:)
> 
> There is at least one automatic language translator used Esperanto (or
> an additionally marked up variant) as an intermediary langauage; it
> translates from the source language into Esperanto and then into the
> destination language:
> 
> 	http://download.travlang.com/Ergane/	

interesting, but elas: words only.  The project I was refering to
aimed higher:)


-- 
groetjes, carel




From imbosol at vt.edu  Sun Nov 10 22:01:45 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:01:45 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjku8$njc$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3DCE003C.9080505@mindspring.com> <aqlntp$66p$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <gknmqa.hc4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <aqn83f$gou$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>        As I recall, they also derive from the hardware that LISP was first 
> implemented on -- C)ontents A)ddress R)egister, and C)ontents D)ata 
> R)egister (or some variation thereof). Something to the effect that the 
> original machine storage unit (words) effectively held two pointers, 
> accessed as address and data...


Which is kind of funny.  You'd expect the Data Register to point to
the nth item in the list, and Address Register to point to the next
cons cell.  But the reverse is true.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From herrn at gmx.net  Thu Nov  7 18:18:10 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 23:18:10 GMT
Subject: how to define the size of a list?
References: <aqeqai$92dk3$1@ID-165840.news.dfncis.de> <_4Cy9.6277$XO.267683@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aqesbh$99ksf$1@ID-165840.news.dfncis.de>

Alex Martelli schrieb im Artikel <_4Cy9.6277$XO.267683 at news2.tin.it>:
> Marco Herrn wrote:
> 
>> Sorry if that is a stupid question, but I didn't find the answer in the
>> docu. I want to define a matrix (a 2-dimensional list) with a specific
>> size. But I didn't find a way to set the size of the list at creation
>> time.
>> 
>> So how can I do this?
> 
> You can create a list of length N in many ways, such as:
>     x = N * [0]
>     x = [ 0 for i in range(N) ]
>     x = range(N)
> and so on, depending on what initial contents you want the
> length-N list to have.
> 
> There are no "two-dimensional" lists in Python proper (and
> you don't mention using the Numeric extension, which DOES
> have them), so I think you mean a list of lists.

Yes, that is what I want.

>  In this
> case, take care NOT to use the first form for the outer level,
> or that would give you a list containing N copies of the SAME
> inner list -- surely not what you want.  I.e., to make a list
> of N separate sublists, each sublist made up of N 0's, do:
>     x = [ [0]*N for i in range(N) ]

Thanks, that helps me.

Bye
Marco


-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From theller at python.net  Fri Nov  8 11:25:02 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 17:25:02 +0100
Subject: PEP 301 -- Package Index and Metadata for Distutils
References: <mailman.1036734251.25997.python-list@python.org> <pan.2002.11.08.12.10.19.610348@mq.edu.au>
Message-ID: <d6pg6nc1.fsf@python.net>

"Steve Cassidy" <steve.cassidy at mq.edu.au> writes:

> On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:43:12 +1100, Richard Jones wrote:
> 
> > This PEP proposes several extensions to the Distutils packaging
> > system.  These enhancements include a central package index
> > server, tools for submitting package information to the index and
> > extensions to the package metadata to include Trove information.
> > 
> 
> If you'll pardon an intrusion from over the fence in comp.lang.tcl,
> it's very interesting that this proposal and the related ones share
> a lot in common with my own TIP 55 proposal for Tcl (
> http://www.purl.org/tcl/tip/55.html) and the associated trial
> implementation of CANTCL
> (http://www.ics.mq.edu.au/~cassidy/cgi-bin/cantcl).
> 
> It strikes me that it might be worthwhile consulting with each other
> to share experiences and perhaps even standardise metadata formats
> between our two sets of repositories.  With the close relationship
> between Python and Tcl (eg. Tkinter, Snack, typcl) there might even
> be an argument for a joint repository.
> 
> Any and all discussion welcomed, please maintain the cross post so
> that both sides of the fence can hear.
> 

As I've said before (on catalog-sig), I would consider a catalog as
proposed by PEP 301 as *just another way* to search for Python
software, but there are many ways already.

What I would like is that the catalog either

- allows to find out (programmatically) the link to the download URL
for the software package,

- or offers the software package itself.

The TIP 55 sample implementation seems to implement the second one.

Thomas


From donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk  Mon Nov 11 10:26:54 2002
From: donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk (Donal K. Fellows)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:26:54 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
Message-ID: <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk>

Daniel Pfeiffer wrote:
> this morning it struck me that it would be nice to have Parrot not only run
> Perl 6 and similar byte code, but that any of the common interpreted
> languages be compiled to this same byte code.
> 
> Then no matter whether running a Perl 6, Python, Ruby, Tcl maybe even bash
> script the same interpreter library would be used.  Then likely it would
> already be in memory speeding up start time.

A common bytecode that Perl, Python, Ruby and Tcl would all compile to?  Hmm. 
Scary, and for several reasons.  Firstly, I'm not at all convinced that the
object models are compatible enough.  And secondly, how are you going to avoid
requiring a resident interpreter/compiler to handle the case where you've got
dynamic code coming from a source that doesn't generate parrot bytecodes
directly (e.g. a normal programmer^Wperson!)  After that, there's worrying about
security models to do as well.  ;^)

One way forward, at least with Tcl, would be to implement a Tcl interpreter in
terms of parrot bytecodes (rather like Jacl is a Tcl interp written in Java) but
that tends to bring out questions like "why bother?"  Could it be done without
requiring a chunky auxiliary C library to provide little things like
cross-platform select() support?  This sort of thing tends to make me suspicious
that this is little more than a pipe-dream, well, at least as far as Tcl's
concerned.  (I don't know the other languages nearly well enough to comment in a
useful way.)

Alternatively, formulate Parrot as a sort-of disjoint union of the bytecodes
used in each language, so unifying them without unifying anything.  >:^D

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows   http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/   donal.fellows at man.ac.uk
-- OK, there is the MFC, but it only makes the chaos object orientated.
                                        -- Thomas Nellessen <nellessen at gmx.de>


From benson123456 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 17 17:27:15 2002
From: benson123456 at yahoo.com (Benson Ngai)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 14:27:15 -0800
Subject: Tkinter/Canvas question
Message-ID: <369fc45d.0211171427.5c651c7e@posting.google.com>

HI, 
I am new to python and tkinter, I have some question on tkinter and
canvas. I am using tkinter to build my GUI, I need to be able to
display some colored square on the screen, I can get everything to
work fine except my frame size. the frame contain 6 square box(canvas
object) and one label. The colored square looks just like the size
that I wants, but in fact it take up so much more room under the
square to store it. (I noticed that when I change the gird mathod
which I am currently using to the pack method and packing them one on
top of each other, I see a lot of space in between every square). does
anybody has any idea of how I can fix that? codes are on the bottom of
the page

second question:
if I have a frame inside a frame. I want to put some object in the
inside-frame using the grid method, when I say the row and column,
would I be using the row and column for the inside-frame or the
outside-frame. I guess my question is, how many measuring system are
we dealing with?

third question:
if I am using the grid method, does every row and column has to be the
same size?

Thank you very much 
Benson

code:
----------------------------------------------
import random
import copy
from Tkinter import *
class disks:
  def __init__(self,randomize=0): #constructor
    if randomize:   #if 1 do
      self.array=self.Rand(0,7,4) 
    else :                        
      self.array=[0,0,0,0]

  def Rand(self,low,high,num): 
    a=[]                  #starting at low to hight [low,high)
    for i in range(num):
      x=random.random()
      x=x*(high-low)+low
      x=int(x)
      a=[x,]+a
    return a[:]

  def SetDisk(self,a=0,b=0,c=0,d=0):
    self.array[0]=a
    self.array[1]=b
    self.array[2]=c
    self.array[3]=d
    
  def CheckBlackPeg(self,other):
    n=3                         
    black=0
    while n>=0:
     if self.array[n]== other.array[n]:
        black=black+1
     n=n-1
    return black

  def CheckWhitePeg(self,other):
    i=0
    j=0
    white=0
    tempArray=other.array[:] 
    while i<4:
      while j<4:
        if self.array[i]==tempArray[j]:
          white=white+1
          tempArray[j]=9 # so we won't count that same color twice
          j=j+1
          break
        j=j+1
      j=0
      i=i+1
    black=self.CheckBlackPeg(other)
    return white-black
          
 
#my display class
class guessFrame:
      def __init__(self,frameNum,parentFrame,fourGuessesArray):
#constructor
        self.myGuessFrame=Frame(parentFrame,relief=GROOVE,borderwidth=1)
        #self.myGuessFrame.geometry("30*20")
        #self.myGuessFrame=parentFrame   
        self.black=0
        self.white=0
        self.frameNum=frameNum
        self.guessArray=fourGuessesArray 

      def Draw(self):
        self.myLabel=Label(self.myGuessFrame, text=str(self.frameNum))
        self.myLabel.grid(row=self.frameNum,column=1)#,sticky=NS)
        print self.frameNum
        #self.myLabel.grid(row=5+self.frameNum,column=1)
        self.myColorSquare=[None]*4
        for i in range(4):
          temp=Canvas(self.myGuessFrame,width = 25)
          self.myColorSquare[i]=temp
        i=0
        myColorCodeArray=self.getGuessColor()
        for i in range(4):#draw the guess color 
          self.myColorSquare[i].create_rectangle(0,0,25,25,
                                                
fill=myColorCodeArray[i])
          self.myColorSquare[i].grid(row=5+self.frameNum,
column=i+2,sticky=NSEW)
        i=0

        
        #Check For feedback
        userGuess=disks(0)
        userGuess.SetDisk(self.guessArray[0],self.guessArray[1],
                         self.guessArray[2],self.guessArray[3])
        blackFeedback=computerHidden.CheckBlackPeg(userGuess)
        whiteFeedback=computerHidden.CheckWhitePeg(userGuess)
        self.myFeedbackSquare=[None]*4
        for i in range(4):
          temp=Canvas(self.myGuessFrame,width = 25)
          self.myFeedbackSquare[i]=temp
        i=0
        
        feedbackCol=6
        i=0
        while blackFeedback > 0:
          #black
          self.myFeedbackSquare[i].create_rectangle(0,0,10,10,fill='#000000')
          self.myFeedbackSquare[i].grid(row=5+self.frameNum,
                                       column=6+i)#,sticky=NSEW)
          i=i+1
          blackFeedback=blackFeedback-1
        while whiteFeedback > 0:
          #White
          self.myFeedbackSquare[i].create_rectangle(0,0,10,10,fill='#ffffff')
          self.myFeedbackSquare[i].grid(row=5+self.frameNum,
                                        column=6+i)#,sticky=NSEW)
          i=i+1
          whiteFeedback=whiteFeedback-1
        while i<4:
          self.myFeedbackSquare[i].create_rectangle(0,0,10,10,fill='#808080')
          self.myFeedbackSquare[i].grid(row=5+self.frameNum,
                                        column=6+i)#,sticky=NSEW)
          i=i+1
        self.myGuessFrame.grid(row=self.frameNum,column=1,columnspan=9)

      def getGuessColor(self):# return an Array of color for print out
        i=0
        guessColor=[9,9,9,9]
        while i<4:
          if(self.guessArray[i]==0):
            guessColor[i]='#000000' #black
          elif(self.guessArray[i]==1):
            guessColor[i]='#00ffff' #cyan
          elif(self.guessArray[i]==2):
            guessColor[i]='#00ff00' #Green
          elif(self.guessArray[i]==3):
            guessColor[i]='#ff00ff' #Magenta
          elif(self.guessArray[i]==4):
            guessColor[i]='#ff0000' #Red
          elif(self.guessArray[i]==5):
            guessColor[i]='#ffffff' #White
          elif(self.guessArray[i]==6):
            guessColor[i]='#ffff00' #yellow
          elif(self.guessArray[i]==9):
            guessColor[i]='#808080' #Gray, our background color
          i=i+1
          
        return guessColor[:] 
#-----------------------------------------

root=Tk()
testingArray=[1,0,2,3]
computerHidden=disks()
mainFrame=Frame(root,width=30,height=30)
mainDisplayFrame1=guessFrame(1,mainFrame,testingArray)
mainDisplayFrame1.Draw()
testingArray=[4,5,6,9]
mainDisplayFrame2=guessFrame(2,mainFrame,testingArray)
mainDisplayFrame2.Draw()
mainDisplayFrame3=guessFrame(3,mainFrame,testingArray)
mainDisplayFrame3.Draw()

mainFrame.pack()
root.mainloop()


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Nov  4 08:37:12 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:37:12 +0000
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
References: <cB12HJAlOlx9EwWy@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <j4heex4i3n.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <yTedzLAIgnx9Ewzw@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <j4heex4i3n.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de>, Martin v. L?wis
<loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> writes
>Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
>> Under 2.2 it seems that SimpleXMLRPCServer has gone into the library,
>> but the CGI support classes are gone. Anyone know of a replacement? This
>> feature was really useful.
>
>See python.org/sf/473586.
>
>Comments are appreciated (in this patch submission).
>
>Regards,
>Martin
Thanks I have applied the patch and it seems fine, probably better to go
that way rather than stick with Brian's old code as I guess it will
gradually get more and more out of date.
-- 
Robin Becker


From clgonsal at alumni.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Nov 14 15:18:02 2002
From: clgonsal at alumni.uwaterloo.ca (Laurence Gonsalves)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:18:02 GMT
Subject: decision tree by python
References: <mailman.1036616888.14196.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_xTA9.30934$QZ.6707@sccrnsc02>

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:06:14 -0500,
Chermside, Michael <mchermside at ingdirect.com> wrote:
> > i am trying to construct a decision and classifiy a set 
> > of data using GINI index.
> > Is there any references? 
>  
>  I'm really not quite sure what you're asking for. The phrase
>  "construct a decision" suggests that you're trying to build
>  some object... but I'm not sure what a "decision object" would
>  be. Alternatively, you may simply not be a native English
>  speaker and you simply meant you wanted to "make a decision".
>  That's fine, but without SOME SORT of description of WHAT
>  decision, it's hard to find a resource.

Or maybe they made typo. :-)

The subject says "decision tree", so I'm guessing they want to construct
a decision tree for classifying data using the GINI index.

The ID3 decision tree learning algorithm is described on this page:

  http://www.cs.tufts.edu/g/150ML/slides/id3.html

Converting it to Python isn't too difficult.

The books "Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach" by Stuart Russell
and Peter Norvig as well as "Machine Learning" by Tom Mitchell also have
sections on decision trees, with detailed explanations of the learning
algorithm.

Searching on Google for various combinations of "decision trees", "id3
algorithm", "python" and "gini index" turn up interesting stuff too. (if
you have "id3" in your query you might want to also throw in "-mp3"...)


From roy at panix.com  Sat Nov 23 20:14:55 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 20:14:55 -0500
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
References: <mailman.1038097412.11387.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-3B88F0.20145523112002@reader1.panix.com>

"Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
> you can easily embed Python into C/C++ - much more so than most
> scripting languages ...

Why do you say that?  I'm currently working with a system that uses an 
imbedded TCL interpreter.  It was pretty simple to do, and has proven to 
be simple to extend when needed.

I'm not saying that I actually like TCL as a language, but I don't think 
it's a defensible statement to say that Python is easier to embed.


From jwbaxter at spamcop.net  Mon Nov 11 11:53:28 2002
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.net (John Baxter)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:53:28 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjku8$njc$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3DCE003C.9080505@mindspring.com> <aqlntp$66p$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <gknmqa.hc4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqn83f$gou$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <7h3lm402zq5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <jwbaxter-5B6C77.08532811112002@corp-radius.supernews.com>

In article <7h3lm402zq5.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>,
 Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:

> Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> writes:
> 
> > Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> > >        As I recall, they also derive from the hardware that LISP was 
> > >        first 
> > > implemented on -- C)ontents A)ddress R)egister, and C)ontents D)ata 
> > > R)egister (or some variation thereof). Something to the effect that the 
> > > original machine storage unit (words) effectively held two pointers, 
> > > accessed as address and data...
> > 
> > 
> > Which is kind of funny.  You'd expect the Data Register to point to
> > the nth item in the list, and Address Register to point to the next
> > cons cell.  But the reverse is true.
> 
> I think the d in cdr stands (stood) for decrement, not data.  But the
> web seems confused on the issue.  It just means "second half of cons
> cell" to me...

It was "decrement" in IBM's view of the machine, and in the usage of 
those instructions which had the field.

  --John


From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 27 14:01:34 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:01:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com> <slrnau9qqg.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <slrnaua8pf.ld.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <slrnaua5ih.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <slrnauaj38.1gv.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:56:32 GMT, Robin Munn napisa?(a):
>     while 1:
>         try:
>             a = int(raw_input('Enter your number: '))
>         except ValueError:
>             print "That wasn't a number."
>         else:
>             break
> 
> This is almost exactly like the code you posted, except that the
> isdigit() test was completely unnecessary. Let int() catch your errors
> for you -- that's what exceptions are for.
You're right. Great code. Not switching from "C mode" to thinking in python 
sometimes produces dozens of unnecessary lines of code ;)

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Fri Nov 22 09:31:34 2002
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:31:34 -0500
Subject: wxpython draw
References: <5b8834c2.0211210022.57d8406b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DDE3FC6.5010305@wi.mit.edu>

hellprout wrote:
> hi i'm french , i just want to find the way to draw something with
> wxpython , i don't know what library used ....
> i have a wxpanel , i want to see a draw when i click on a button ... 
> do i take the same way like tkinter ?
> 
> thanks for your help 
> 
> nicolas


Given the appropriate device context, you can draw on almost anything. 
You probably want to draw on a wxPanel (if you are making a widget) or a 
wxScrolledWindow (if you are drawing larger than the viewed canvas).

Check out the wxScrolledWindow example from the wxPython demonstration. 
  (under Core Windows/Controls)

If you need more help, I can send you an example for making a histogram 
widget in a wxPanel.

brian



From Oschler at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 11 22:21:25 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 03:21:25 GMT
Subject: newbie Q: shortcuts for long module names?
Message-ID: <Vs_z9.47492$Lg2.13559342@news2.news.adelphia.net>

Let's say I import a module with a long name:

import com.long.module.name

Now every time I access a function in com.long.module.name I have to prepend
"com.long.module.name" to the member function.  Is there generally accepted
and safe way to "alias" the module name or bring it into the local namespace
so I can either omit or alias the module name with something much shorter?

thx





From simon at simon-cozens.org  Mon Nov  4 17:14:54 2002
From: simon at simon-cozens.org (Simon Cozens)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 22:14:54 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <usdq1tapaekk87@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87vg3dt21t.fsf@simoncozens-2.dsl.easynet.co.uk>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
> >this morning it struck me that it would be nice to have Parrot not only
> >run Perl 6 and similar byte code, but that any of the common interpreted
> >languages be compiled to this same byte code.
> >
> >Then no matter whether running a Perl 6, Python, Ruby, Tcl maybe even
> >bash script the same interpreter library would be used.  Then likely it
> >would already be in memory speeding up start time.
> 			.
> This thought inspired enthusiasm in others long ago--from
> before it was named "Parrot", at least.

Particularly myself; in fact, it was named Parrot precisely to represent its
language-agnosticism. 

The thought is also behind why I wrote the Python::Bytecode module, why I
learnt Ruby, and why I've been asking interesting questions about access to
the Ruby AST. 

I don't think the reality is as far away as you imply.

-- 
The problem with big-fish-little-pond situations is that you
have to put up with all these fscking minnows everywhere.
    -- Rich Lafferty


From news at titanic.co.uk  Sat Nov  9 12:35:13 2002
From: news at titanic.co.uk (Simon Faulkner)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 17:35:13 +0000
Subject: mounting a floppy
References: <9n8qsug5ubc9kvu9qvssvli931vqq7m8mh@4ax.com> <Xns92C1A9FCC7517cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <pphqsu41vu8ca95agv2oi4o0g82808cgq1@4ax.com>

Doh!

It's so easy when you know how!

Cheers


Simon

On 9 Nov 2002 16:41:31 +0200, Chris Liechti <cliechti at gmx.net> wrote:

>Simon Faulkner <news at titanic.co.uk> wrote in 
>news:9n8qsug5ubc9kvu9qvssvli931vqq7m8mh at 4ax.com:
>
>> I have written a CGI web frontend for a little system
>> 
>> I need to mount a floppy, write a file to it, unmount the floppy
>> 
>> Only root can do this and  I don't want to run Apache as root!
>
>you, you better don't. you can edit fstab and specify "user" in the options  
>column to allow a normal user to mount it.
>
>/dev/fd0        /floppy         auto    defaults,user,noauto    0   0
>
>chris



From timr at probo.com  Sat Nov 30 00:38:53 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:38:53 -0800
Subject: Problem opening files while using os.path.walk
References: <4f5748b4.0211281337.5597a4ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ekjguusdj7ilcd9vd50lrhv25p0f6s91ti@4ax.com>

martian_bob at portalofevil.com (R. Arens) wrote:
>
>Hi. I'm writing what should be a simple function that will walk a
>directory structure, opening and joining all files within the
>directory tree into a single huge file.
>...
>import os, sys
>
>def walkJoin(out, dirname, names):
>    print "Current directory: " + dirname
>    names.sort()
>    for name in names:
>        if os.path.isfile(name):
>            file = open(name, 'r')
>            lines = file.readlines()
>            for line in lines:
>                out.writeline(line)
>            file.close()
>        else:
>            print "Keep walking"
>            os.path.walk(name, walkJoin, out)

No, no, no!  "os.path.walk" is recursive all by itself.  It will keep
calling your callback with deeper and deeper directories.  You do NOT need
to call "walk" multiple times.

I suspect what you have here is a recipe for an infinite loop.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From cliechti at gmx.net  Thu Nov 14 15:26:49 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 22:26:49 +0200
Subject: parsing python code
References: <653cf871.0211141129.681e5dd7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92C6E48BDA007cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

abidnego25 at yahoo.com (les) wrote in 
news:653cf871.0211141129.681e5dd7 at posting.google.com:

> but before i try the brute force way,i wanted to ask if there is already 
> a module that does what i want

have you looked at the "parser" module that comes with python?

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Nov 14 15:46:18 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 15:46:18 -0500
Subject: questions about scope/threading
References: <aoje8k$dpn$1@newsreader.mailgate.org> <aoke4n$9o$1@panix1.panix.com> <aokrjb$eaj$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <ar122q$gst$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <aokrjb$eaj$1 at newsreader.mailgate.org>,
eugene kim  <eugene1977 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Aahz:
>>
>>The trick with Python is that ALL objects are truly global
> ?? i 'm really confused, what is refered as global? i thought 'var1' is 
>only global here on below example.

Python uses "global" to mean "module scope".  There's also the common
meaning, which is "accessible everywhere"; that's the meaning I'm using
for "truly global".

>var1 = 1
>
>class Class1:
>   self.var2 = 2
>   var3 = 3
>
>class Class2(threading.Thread)
>   self.var4 = 4
>   var5 = 5
>   def method1(self):
>       var6 = 6

Thing is, while var3 is not a module global, any thread can access that
name through Class1.var3 -- therefore, the object bound to Class1.var3
is a completely global object, and you have to be careful what you do
with Class1.var3 (or the object bound to it if the object is mutable).
Tricky stuff.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?


From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Nov 14 11:54:12 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 08:54:12 -0800
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m 3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3lm3xqh92.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <7h3fzu4z9ww.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211140854.4a4da27e@posting.google.com>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in message news:<7h3fzu4z9ww.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>...
> martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) writes:
> 
> > DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>  [...]
> > > My wild guess would be that there are today more people familiar with XML
> > > than there are with \tex.
> 
> I doubt this.  Many, many scientists know tex, or rather latex.
> 
> Among the people who are likely to contribute to Python's docs, you
> may well be right, though I'm not sure what "being familiar with XML"
> *means* here -- being familiar with an appropriate XML application
> like docbook is surely the point, and that cuts the number of people
> down again.
> 
> > > How long will the supply of tex afficianado's last?
> 
> Long enough, I'd bet.
> 
> > You don't need to be a Tex aficionado to contribute to the Python
> > documentation. I don't like Tex myself, and I don't use it for
> > anything but the Python documentation. However, when writing Python
> > documentation, I don't think of it as writing Tex. It is a special
> > language that is much easier to learn than Tex, since the processor is
> > much more forgiving (it is processed by Fred Drake, after all).
> 
> My pedantic streak is wanting to point out the differences between
> "Tex", "plain Tex" and "LaTex" (the last of which being what Python's
> docs are in), but I doubt anyone cares...
> 
> Cheers,
> M.

I have used latex for scientific publications in the last nine years and I
am very happy with it. Nevertheless, using latex to write documentation
would make me very unhappy. I fill that in a text with no mathematical
formulas latex is overkill. I have great hope for the docutils project
and reStructuredText as a substitute of latex. Then, I don't think it
would be difficult to convert reStructuredText to XML.By the way, even 
now there are latex2XML converters (I don't know how much reliable).

--
Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Mon Nov  4 12:34:41 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:34:41 GMT
Subject: Null pointer exception when instantiating Jython interpreter
References: <P9hx9.41918$Lg2.11403082@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <Rcyx9.42220$Lg2.11627048@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Robert Oschler" <Oschler at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:P9hx9.41918$Lg2.11403082 at news2.news.adelphia.net...
> Hello,
>
> I'm running NetBeans 3.34 with the Sun JDK/SDK version 1.4.1_01b, on a Win
> 2k box.  I'm trying to integrate Jython 2.1 into my test app.  I created a
> Frame where originally I tried starting the Jython interpreter when a
button
> was hit.  I got the error dump shown below.  I did some Google searching
and
> checked the Jython users mailing list archives, and saw some posts
regarding
> Jython and multi-threading problems.  So I moved the code that tries to
> instantiate the jython interpreter into the static main() function that
> creates and shows the Frame.  Same error dump.  Does anyone know what to
do
> here?
>
> thx
>
<snip>

Hello,

Ok, it turns out it was a simple problem due to my Java inexperience.  I'm
posting the answer here so others can find it.  I had added the path to the
directory that contained the jython.jar file, in my case "C:\jython-2.1".
What I needed to do was add the jar file itself as a path in the class path,
that is, "C:\jython-2.1\jython.jar".  It is seems to me, especially after
examining the URLClassLoader definition page, that jar files are treated as
a "path" or "directory" that contains other files.  All I had to do was add
the jar file to the path and everything worked fine.

In NetBeans 3.4 you would mount "jython.jar" by navigating to the jar file,
usually in the jython top level directory, by right clicking on the
"Filesystems" root node key in the Explorer pane, then Mount, then Archive
Files.  Using the file explorer dialog box just locate "jython.jar", select
it, and click "Finish".

In JBuilder, you would add the library from the Project
Properties->Libraries->Add Library item.

NOTE: when you first initialize the python interpreter for the very first
time ever, the system package manager will take a significant amount of time
to process several other dependent archive (jar) files, especially "rt.jar",
before returning from the initialization call.  Just relax and let it
proceed normally.  It will only happen the first you ever initialize a
python interpreter and not afterwards.

Hope this helps.

thx





From bh at intevation.de  Tue Nov 12 08:56:42 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 14:56:42 +0100
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <bdb5b58f.0211111438.640885d2@posting.google.com> <aqpc4j$cl5$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <6q7kfjau4f.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <Xns92C47A3ACD484duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <aqqt9t$vu2$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <6qwuniao2t.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:09:56 +0000 (UTC), Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >  python -c "a=b=1;exec'while+1:print+a;a,b=b,a+b'"
> >
> >Who ever said Python programs need whitespace!
> 
> I didn't know exec would parse semicolons that way (I hardly ever use
> it). But is that new with 2.2?

That's been valid Python syntax for ages. The first python version I
used was 1.3 and I don't think I ever used a Python version that didn't
support semicolons as optional statement terminators. In fact,
Misc/HISTORY reveals that this was introduced in 0.9.2.

It's got nothing to do with exec in particular, BTW. It's a standard
feature of the Python syntax.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov 16 13:03:34 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:03:34 -0600
Subject: quick question
In-Reply-To: <20021116120631.08993.00000062@mb-fo.aol.com> (bwfc10@aol.com's
 message of "16 Nov 2002 17:06:31 GMT")
References: <mailman.1037458463.20139.python-list@python.org>
	<20021116120631.08993.00000062@mb-fo.aol.com>
Message-ID: <m21y5l4cjt.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Bwfc10" == Bwfc10  <bwfc10 at aol.com> writes:

    Bwfc10> Thank you for your help, it isn't homework but whats wrong
    Bwfc10> with me asking on here when i do get homework?  --

Depends on how you ask.  Homework is designed to teach, and it doesn't
do you much good to have other people do it for you.  So some people
don't want to do homework problems for students.

There is nothing wrong with getting *help* on homework if you post
what you've done and what you understand.  Someone will gladly advise
you on the next step.  The key is to post code that shows you have
thought about the problem.  It also gives us an idea of what you
understand and don't, so we can give a more informed response.

Sound reasonable?

John Hunter





From khs at trolltech.com  Wed Nov 20 18:25:48 2002
From: khs at trolltech.com (Kent Sandvik)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:25:48 -0800
Subject: Advice for using emacs python-mode
In-Reply-To: <uisyrq5eq.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <66A8E52E-FCDF-11D6-9083-00039300E082@trolltech.com>

Actually, in case anyone uses vim, here's a stupid small macro I wrote 
that opens up the output from the python session in another frame (to 
be placed in .vimrc).

map <C-k> :wa<CR>:!python % >& ~/.vimtmp <cr>:new<cr>:edit 
~/.vimtmp<cr><cr>
map <C-q> :close<cr>

Control-K runs the python app, Control -q closes the current active 
window. This is under MacOSX, hence the stderr redirection is csh 
style.  --Kent





From dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 07:24:35 2002
From: dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 12:24:35 GMT
Subject: rss.py for win32.
References: <Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP@195.112.4.37> <vdWdndYr6YGgGUKgXTWcpg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92D07E4887446DaveP@195.112.4.37>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in 
news:vdWdndYr6YGgGUKgXTWcpg at comcast.com:

> 
> "Dave Pawson" <dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP at 195.112.4.37...
>> http://orchard.sourceforge.net/doc/RSS-parser.py
>>
>> Appears to be *nix only.
> 
> Why do you think that?  

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "testrss.py", line 8, in ?
    tc.parse("http://www.python.org/channews.rdf")
  File "rss.py", line 207, in parse
    signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, self._timeout)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'SIGALRM'


Looks very Un win32 like to me...
Not dissimilar to *nix C code?
Hence the question.

regards DaveP.


From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 18 16:05:37 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 13:05:37 -0800
Subject: redirecting cgi error to browser
In-Reply-To: <653cf871.0211181220.43beca9c@posting.google.com>
References: <653cf871.0211181220.43beca9c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1037653537.26202.194.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 12:20, les wrote:
> hi,
> i would like to redirect the cgi error to my browser, for debugging purposes.
> i am looking for it on the net but am unable to find it.
> can someone please give me an example 
> thanks

import cgitb

cgitb.enable()

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From dave at solussoftware.com  Fri Nov 15 15:08:57 2002
From: dave at solussoftware.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:08:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEJFCLAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211151205490.886-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Tim Peters wrote:

> [Dave Brueck]
> > It's funny what people do and don't find readable, huh? I use list
> > comps all the time because to me they are almost always more readable
> > than the equivalent code and more vertically compact as well. I
> > wouldn't mind having a dictionary comp
> 
> Do you know that dict() accepts an iterable object producing iterable
> objects producing 2 objects each?

Yup. (Skip pointed this out too) I wouldn't mind having a special syntax 
for dictionary comps, but mostly I was just voicing my opinion to the OP 
that I need such a thing far less often than list comps.

-Dave




From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 18:25:25 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:25:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Still Question about print format?
In-Reply-To: <3DCAEF26.1040101@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20021107232525.3907.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com>

> If what you really wanted was to create a classic
> "report" (static 
> formatted output for consumption by humans), you
> shouldn't be using tabs 
> at all.  Look at using the string methods "center",
> "ljust" and "rjust", 
> which will give you your string values with
> space-padding to be exactly 
> a given length.

That's really what I want to do but I didn't explain
it clearly. Thanks for your clarifying. I tried to use
ljust as you said and modified my codes as the
following. But I still couldn't get the aligned
result. Did I mess up in any place? Thanks so much.


        form = """
	%(index)d
	%(symbol)s
	%(binding_file)s
	%(to_file)s\n
	"""

	string.ljust(symbol,50)
	string.ljust(binding_file[0],50)
	tring.ljust(to_file[0],50)
	print >>fp1, form%{'index':i,
			   'symbol':symbol,
	                'binding_file':binding_file[0],
			       'to_file':to_file[0],
			      }

The results I got:

	4		
	`_XmInheritClass'				
	netscape					
	netscape	

They are not what I want as aligning 4 columns in a
row such as:

4 `_XmInheritClass'  netscape   netscape	

=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 20 16:54:02 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:54:02 -0600
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <86256C77.0075AAD2.00@utm-notesob1.mdacc.tmc.edu> (nandrats@mail.mdanderson.org's
 message of "Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:33:10 -0600")
References: <86256C77.0075AAD2.00@utm-notesob1.mdacc.tmc.edu>
Message-ID: <m2smxvsy9x.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "nandrats" == nandrats  <nandrats at mail.mdanderson.org> writes:

    nandrats> It's probably not very diplomatic to complain about it
    nandrats> as a newbie, but it is more intimidating than helping.

There are some mailing lists for python newbies:

  python-help at python.org (a.k.a. help at python.org): help desk. You can
  ask a group of knowledgeable volunteers questions about all your
  Python problems. See below for more info.

  tutor at python.org: for folks who want to ask questions regarding how
  to learn computer programming with the Python language. See below
  for more info.

See http://python.org/psa/MailingLists.html.

Also, if you use a properly configured mail reader that supports
splitting and threading, then all python-list mails will into a
python-list group and all the responses to this thread will be kept
together (and so are easy to ignore)

This is a very high traffic list.  You either need a mail reader that
can handle it (I use gnus in emacs) or you can read the list in
comp.lang.python with a threaded news reader.

John Hunter



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Nov  9 11:06:06 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 17:06:06 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 8 Nov 2002 04:54:01 -0800, oleg_inconnu at myrealbox.com (Oleg) wrote:

>I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
>between Python and Common Lisp (
>http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
>wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?

A computer program has to determine what a certain input means before
it can produce output.

In the years when Lisp was becoming popular the first task -
interpreting input - was considered to be hard and the other task -
producing output - was considered to be easy. People *expected* source
code to be difficult to read for humans. 

Nowadays some people think that interpreting a given message is
trivial compared to the problem of producing the right output. If the
computer has to decide that we must have meant something else in order
to be able to produce the right output: So be it.

As a consequence we can use a more human like language to communicate
with the computer.

Anton.

42


From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  5 00:11:52 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (xinghua shi)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:11:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: More about simple question
Message-ID: <20021105051152.21980.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>


>
> import sys,os,string 
> 
> pid = os.getpid() 
> 
> filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid) 
> 
> print filename 
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^Name error: name "filename" is not defined. 
> 

Actually, I have a file named "ld.stat.py" which is: 
def main():

import sys,os,string 
pid = os.getpid()  
filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid) 
print filename 

And then I typed:

python ld.stat.py

And I use python2.2. Besides, if I want to run the file "ld.stat.py" by typing "ld.stat" directly, how to do with this? Thanks so much for your help. :)

 



---------------------------------
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HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
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From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Nov 15 17:59:12 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:59:12 -0600
Subject: Permutations algoritm?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E0AA2D@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Ron Levine [mailto:ron at dorianresearch.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 4:57 PM
> 
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:51:04 -0600, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> 
> >> From: William Park [mailto:opengeometry at yahoo.ca]
> >> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 3:42 PM
> >> 
> >> sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> >> > Does anybody have a clear, simple, permutations algorithm
> >> > in Python?
> >> 
> >> Would you care to explain this?  Permutation can mean 
> >> different things.
> >> Concrete example might be good...
> >>
> >
> >Of a set of different items 'S', obtain all distinct subsets of 'n'
> >items where all items in the subset are different.
> >
> >So, if I have, for example:
> >
> >   S = [ 0, 1, 2, 3 ]
> >
> >the universe of available subsets of 3 items would be:
> >
> >   s = [ (0, 1, 2),
> >         (0, 1, 3),
> >         (0, 2, 3),
> >         (1, 2, 3) ]
> >
> >the universe of available subsets of 2 items would be:
> >
> >   s = [ (0, 1),
> >         (0, 2),
> >         (0, 3),
> >         (1, 2),
> >         (1, 3),
> >         (2, 3) ]
> >
> >Any help?
> >
> 
> This is not the conventional meaning of "permutation" in the
> mainstream mathematical lexicon.    Rather, the term applies to a set
> of distinct objects and means the set of all possible different ways
> of ordering them.  The number of permutations of a set of n things is
> n! (factorial).
> 
> What you describe are combinations and power set.  
> 
> Combinations refers to the number of different ways of selecting k
> things out of a set of n things, without regard to ordering, i.e. the
> number of different k-element subsets of an n-element set.  The number
> of such combinations is the binomial coefficient 
> C(n,k) = n!/(k!(n-k!) )
> 
> The power set is the set of all distinct subsets of a set.  Its size
> is the sum of C(n,k), k ranges from 0 to n which happens to equal 2^n.
>

Yes, you are very correct; I'm doing it by hand (paper a pencil), and
it just hit me that I'm looking for combinations and not permutations,
because I don't care about the order.

:-)

-gustavo



From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Tue Nov 26 10:50:52 2002
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:50:52 +0000
Subject: building database form-applications
In-Reply-To: <qaME9.7$Q4.758927@news.salzburg-online.at>
References: <TmLE9.5$Jm2.888963@news.salzburg-online.at> <mailman.1038322239.31366.python-list@python.org> <qaME9.7$Q4.758927@news.salzburg-online.at>
Message-ID: <200211261550.52609.phil@river-bank.demon.co.uk>

On Tuesday 26 November 2002 3:14 pm, Stephan wrote:
> What are 'SQL aware widgets'?

GUI controls that can, for example, populate themselves automatically from a 
database. Check out http://doc.trolltech.com/3.1/sql.html#Data-Aware_Widgets 
and have a hunt around.

Phil

> Phil Thompson wrote:
> > On Tuesday 26 November 2002 2:19 pm, Stephan wrote:
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>I want to evaluate tools for building Python-based form-applications for
> >>database interaction. So far I have looked into Boa Constructor and
> >>Black Adder which both seem to be promising. But what other tools can be
> >>recommended? And which is best equipped for rapid GUI development?
> >
> > If you want develop GUIs with SQL aware widgets then look at the
> > combination of PyQt, the eric IDE and Qt Designer.
> >
> > Although BlackAdder is built on the same technology it does not yet
> > support the SQL aware widgets in it's form designer, nor does it include
> > support for Qt's SQL classes in its version of PyQt. However, depending
> > on what platform you want to support, and whether you wish to sell your
> > applications, BlackAdder may be a better bet - and stick with "dumb"
> > forms.
> >
> > Phil




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Nov 29 08:02:10 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 08:02:10 -0500
Subject: questions about scope/threading
References: <aoje8k$dpn$1@newsreader.mailgate.org> <ar1tph$q7$1@wheel2.two14.net> <ar1vcf$iu9$1@panix1.panix.com> <ar3t8n$q9$2@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <as7ogi$h50$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <ar3t8n$q9$2 at wheel2.two14.net>,  <maney at pobox.com> wrote:
>Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>>
>> One way or another, every object in Python is reachable using Python
>> code.
>
>Well, sure.  At least if you subscribe to the peculiar theory that
>thinks that gc has to collect every unreachable object before the
>program exits.
>
>I would complain that you willfully misconstrued my meaning - I was, of
>course, thinking about bound objects - but I certainly ought to know
>better than to accidentally leave you a semantic ambiguity to play
>with! :-)

gc was just an example.  Try playing with sys._getframe() for another
example.  The point is that *ALL* Python objects are by definition bound;
if they're not bound, the refcount is zero and the object is deleted.
There really is no such thing as an unreachable Python object (unless you
deliberately create one in a C library and never pass it back to Python).

This isn't semantic games, it goes right to the core of Python's power
and capabilities.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra


From CousinStanley at HotMail.com  Mon Nov 18 19:53:09 2002
From: CousinStanley at HotMail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:53:09 -0700
Subject: quick question
References: <20021116051220.01520.00000047@mb-bk.aol.com> <mailman.1037458463.20139.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arc1p1$h5q7a$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

John ...

Thanks for your nice explanation and posting your script
for counting votes from record values in a file ...

I created a test input file ...

    # Records ..... ~ 260,000
    # Flavors ..... 12 Unique Record Values
      File Size ... 2.54 MB

Using an edited version of your script
with both a normal Python and a Psyco bound function,
I came up with the following results ...

   Count    Percent    Record

    75168      28.92    vanilla
    36288      13.96    peach
    33696      12.96    chocolate
    31968      12.30    strawberry
    26784      10.30    Granny's Best
    16416       6.32    snow
    15552       5.98    butter pecan
    12960       4.99    rocky road
     7776       2.99    kiwi
     1728       0.66    raspberry sorbet
      864       0.33    Partridge in a Pear Tree
      714       0.27    pistachio
    ======    ======
    259914    100.00

    Elapsed Time :    8.73 Seconds ... Normal
    Elapsed Time :    5.05 Seconds ... Psyco

I think 5 seconds for categorizing and counting
a couple of floppy disks worth of votes ain't too bad ...

My version of your script follows ...

Thanks again ...

Cousin Stanley

----------------------------------------------------------

'''
    NewsGroup :  comp.lang.python
         Date :  2002-11-16
    Posted_By :  John Hunter
    Edited_By :  Stanley C. Kitching

     FileName :  file_rec_count.py

     Function :

       Count records in a file
       according to the record's value

       A dictionary is used with unique record values as keys
       and their respective record counts as values

       For reporting the dictionary is converted
       to a sorted list of tuples

       Both normal Python and Psyco bound tests
       are run for comparision

'''

import psyco
import sys
import time

print '\n   ' , sys.argv[ 0 ]

def rec_count( aFile , ) :

    dict_rec = {}
    num_rec  = 0

    # Load Dictionary with Records from File

    for aRec in aFile :

        aRec = aRec.strip()

        dict_rec[ aRec ] = dict_rec.get( aRec , 0 ) + 1

        num_rec += 1

    # Convert Dictionary to a List of Tuples

    list_rec = [ (aValue,aKey) for (aKey,aValue) in dict_rec.items() ]

    list_rec.sort()

    list_rec.reverse()    # Highest Counts Listed First


    # Print Report

    num_rec = float( num_rec )

    count_tot   = 0
    percent_tot = 0.00

    print '\n    Count    Percent    Record \n'

    for ( count , aRec ) in list_rec :

        percent = ( count / num_rec ) * 100.00

        print '   %6d     %6.2f    %s ' % (count,percent,aRec)

        count_tot   += count

        percent_tot += percent

    print '\n    ======    ======'
    print '    %6d    %6.2f \n' % (count_tot,percent_tot)

def xMain() :

    aPath = 'file_rec_IceCream.txt'

    # Normal Test

    print '\n    Normal Python Test ... '

    aFile = file( aPath )

    start = time.time()

    rec_count( aFile )

    et_1  = time.time() - start

    aFile.close()


    # Psyco Test

    print '\n    Psyco Test ...'

    aFile = file( aPath )

    psyco.bind( rec_count )

    start = time.time()

    rec_count( aFile )

    et_2  = time.time() - start

    aFile.close()


    print '\n    Elapsed Time :  %6.2f Seconds ... Normal ' % ( et_1 )

    print '\n    Elapsed Time :  %6.2f Seconds ... Psyco  ' % ( et_2 )


if __name__  ==  '__main__' :

   xMain()





From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov  5 21:21:02 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 02:21:02 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question: Sockets
References: <a_Xx9.45531$ku2.2717764@twister.southeast.rr.com> <slrnase1hp.b0s.grante@localhost.localdomain> <phZx9.45806$ku2.2737094@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaseakf.bbk.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <phZx9.45806$ku2.2737094 at twister.southeast.rr.com>, Kevin Bass wrote:

>> There are no record boundaries in TCP/IP.
>>
>> One end may call send() four times with 25 bytes each time.  The other end
>> may receive that data as a single 100 byte chunk, as 5 20-byte chunks, or as
>> 100 single byte chunks.
>>
> 
> Thanks for responding. :) I will try to be a little more clear this time :)
> 
> I received the results of  'The received data is  Mousey MooMousey MooMousey
> MooMousey MooMousey MooMousey MooMousey Moo' when executing my socks. I
> hoped to get the result of ''The received data is  Mousey Moo'

You received more data than you sent?  That should never, ever happen.

> I have limited the number of bytes received in my code (data =
> conn.recv(50)) and I have recieved favorable results. I received the results
> of 'The received data is  Mousey Moo'.
> 
> Can the received data be placed into another value should as an array or
> list?

You can do anything you want with the data.  It's a Python string.  A python
string is a list of characters (bytes), which for practical purposes is
pretty much an array of 8-bit bytes.  If you want to send things other than
text strings, I suggest using

 1) The struct module to pack/unpack data using known binary layouts.
 
 2) Something like the pickle module to serialize Python objects.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  -- In 1962, you could
                                  at               buy a pair of SHARKSKIN
                               visi.com            SLACKS, with a "Continental
                                                   Belt," for $10.99!!


From jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com  Fri Nov  1 00:25:19 2002
From: jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com (Jim)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 05:25:19 GMT
Subject: PyQwt
References: <3znw9.43274$iV1.36511@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3DC2102F.8080706@SPAMnwinternet.com>

Mark wrote:
> I'm trying to play with PyQwt.

> I have python-2.2.1, Numeric-21.0, qt-3.05-r2, sip-3.4, PyQT-3.4 installed 
> on my system [it's a gentoo system so I didn't build them by hand].  When I 
> attempt to follow the instructions at: 
> http://gerard.vermeulen.free.fr/installation.html#UNIX-INSTALL
> I run into a small problem trying to set
> sip_spec_dirs = ['/usr/share/sip/qt'] to the place that has "qtmod.sip & 
> friends".

> The problem is, I can't find a single *.sip file on my machine (beside in 
> the source code for PyQwt.  If I download PyKDE I can find some .sip files, 
> but nowhere else.  Is PyKDE needed for    qtmod.sip?  Is it possible that on
> e of the gentoo packages [such as for qt, sip, or pyqt] is not installin
> g everything it should?  How can I test out the installation of thes
> e programs?  About all I've verified is that I can run the "eric" debugge
> r that comes with pyqt (I think that is what it comes with) and I've toye
> d around with Numeric.  I can't vouch for sip or pyqt.

You don't need PyKDE (I maintain it, so I feel fairly
confident in saying that). The recent tarballs for *both*
PyQt and PyKDE include sip files (in the sip/ directory
under the top level directory in the tarball). You can
get these at:

http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk

which is the PyQt website.

I don't know how gentoo packages PyQt, but it isn't possible
any longer to build PyQt without the sip files (unless someone
has done a prebuild, like an rpm). You generate the C++ files
to compile locally on your machine before compiling, and you
need the sip files to do this. Same for PyKDE. At least that's
how a "standard" install from source works.

If you have a working 'locate' or 'find' you should be able to
determine where qtmod.sip is located if you have them, and the
other sip files should be in the same location. eric is also in
the same general vicinity as the sip files (under the same parent)
unless it's been moved someplace like /usr/bin.

If you have PyQt installed, you should see a bunch of PyQt libs
and py files in site-packages under python/ or wherever your
Python executables/modules are located. You should be able to do
'import qt' in the Python interpreter if PyQt is installed
correctly.

I also haven't looked at how Gerard builds PyQwt, but I suspect
you need to be able to import (similar to #include) the PyQt
files to build. You can usually get a message to Gerard on
the PyKDE mailing list (which also serves for PyQt, sip and
some related stuff) at:

http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde

and there should be other PyQwt users on the list as well.


Jim



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Nov 28 08:01:04 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 14:01:04 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyfy97ew0o7.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <S3nF9.23700$hg1.65413@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <tyfof89x2zz.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> writes:

> Robin Munn:
> 
> > With color-highlighting, I could at least be certain *at a glance*
> > of which paren was lining up with which.

> Jacek Generowicz:
> 
> # I don't understand the distinction. The cursor is at some parenthesis;
> # the matching parenthesis is highlighted. I see it. It's immediate. I
> # can't imagine anything faster.
> 
>    You can see at a glance which parts match

I am somewhat skeptical about this. If you have nested parentheses,
the inner ones will break up the continuity of the colour of the outer
ones, and you will end up having to search for the _nearest_ matching
colour amid a sea of colour. Strikes me as much more difficult (and
error prone) than looking for the single clearly highlighted
parenthesis.

> without moving the caret around to highlight them one by one.

Remember that the issue was adding the correct number of parentheses
when closing the expression; you keep hitting ")" until the
parenthesis at the beginning of the expression you are wanting to
close lights up. With colours, you would have to type the parenthesis,
look at its colour, move your eyes over to find a matching colour,
decide it is not far enough, type another parenthesis, look at the
colour, forget the previous colour, search for the new colour
... sounds like a drag.

When your expression is already written the indentaiton provides
(IMHO) better visual clues than colours would.

> It looks worth pursuing to me, but I'm not motivated enough to
> implement it.

I agree with the latter because I disagree with the former :-)

One day, when I'm lost for something to do (that'll be the day!) I'd
like to pursue the s-expressions-by-indentation idea (actually, I
suspect that the reader has been hacked to implement this more than
once by now) to see whether it's any clearer, whether the code takes
up too much space (maybe some intermediate form which allows
parentheses when you need/want to cram more things on one line?)

Hmm ... it's not immediately clear to me how to distinguish between

  ... a) (b ...

and 

  ... a b ...


To take a specific example, both 

  (a (b (c d) e) (f))

and 

  (a (b (c d) e f))

would translate to

  a
    b
      c d
    e
    f

My translation scheme is "Keep going on the same line until you find a
parenthesis. Start a new line. If the parenthesis is "(" then increase
indentation, if it is ")" decrease indentation."

Strictly speaking, this would lead to a blank line between the "e" and
the "f" in the first case, but not in the second. However, making the
count of blank lines significant strikes me as horrible in the
extreme.

Hmm ... let's see whether Google finds any previous deliberations on
this matter ...


From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Tue Nov 26 02:55:19 2002
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 23:55:19 -0800
Subject: Python for website size
References: <uu5q5of4f7h879@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <33803989.0211252355.7ab1c3c7@posting.google.com>

Hello Shawn,

> Is there any python program or libray can be used to obtain the total size
> of a website and its individual pages as well?
I'd use wget + du.
Otherwise I think you'll have to write your own using httplib and html parser.

HTH.
Miki


From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov 23 08:33:30 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:33:30 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <mailman.1037993694.2261.python-list@python.org> <arm9oa$but$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <6qyD9.60432$Yw.2729711@news2.tin.it> <armdko$jgb$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <KsLD9.44802$744.1610007@news1.tin.it>

Pascal Costanza wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
>> Pascal Costanza wrote:
>>    ...
>>>(All the scripting languages I have seen so far rely on C for the hairy
>>>stuff - and I definitely don't like that. There should be some
>>>alternative.)
>> 
>> There is.  Jython, www.jython.org, is an implementation of the Python
>> language in and for Java -- complete, working, and quite solid.
> 
> Ah, yes, of course. But you don't want to suggest that Java is a
> language that is useful for doing hairy and complex stuff. (Sure, most

More productive than C, at any rate; and we see oodles of "hairy
and complex stuff" done mostly in C and fairly well too.


> things become hairy and complex in Java, but that's a totally different
> story. ;)
> 
> I mean, Python is already more advanced than Java.

Oh, I agree with this, but that's not the point.


> As I said before, Python could be a good surface language for Common
> Lisp. Something like Dylan was. The original idea in Lisp was to provide
> the so-called M-expressions one day, but that never turned out to be
> accepted by Lispers. I think the problem with M-expressions or Dylan is
> that these were completely new languages. Choosing an already existing
> language (for example Python) could be the better choice because it is
> already accepted (and proven to work in practice). Of course, that
> language should already be close to Common Lisp, but I don't see any
> major problems in that regard with Python.

An interesting consideration, yes.


> Another motivation is as follows: I think the basic idea of .NET (or
> better the CLR) is quite interesting, i.e. to have a common portable
> runtime that can be used by many different languages. However, the

I fully agree with this.

> design of the CLR is still very limited (it is slightly more open than
> the JVM, and that's what Microsoft wants .NET to be compared against,
> although they don't admit it publicly). For example, the CLR has only a
> limited object model that is hard to target from languages that want to
> include interesting features like multiple inheritance or multi-methods.

Yes, a fair assessment.


> So my main vision is to turn Common Lisp into such a kind of common
> runtime for various languages. That's one reason why I started the JVM
> implementation in Common Lisp.
> 
> Does this make some sense?

Sure.

> P.S.: I know that this sounds like a major undertaking. ;)

Not just "sounds" -- surely IS.  But so what -- major undertakings
do sometimes succeed, after all!-)


Alex



From xizst9 at pitt.edu  Mon Nov 25 22:21:29 2002
From: xizst9 at pitt.edu (Shawn Zeng)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:21:29 -0500
Subject: Python for website size
Message-ID: <uu5q5of4f7h879@corp.supernews.com>

Hi, all,

Is there any python program or libray can be used to obtain the total size
of a website and its individual pages as well?

Thanks




From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 13 17:55:18 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:55:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <7h3smy5zj8k.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqu7ka$ihb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <aqul8m$qj$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote:
> Michael Hudson wrote:
>> *This* is asking to be written as a loop:
> 
> Not for me.  I wouldn't use a loop in this situation, unless the
> operations in the loop were dynamic.  The loop interrupts the logical

I think I've already replied elsewhere to the alternation-into-loop
approach.  I can disagree with both of you, somewhat.  I like the idea of
organizing the pattern/action pairs in a fashion that draws attention to
their binding as a general notion.  In practice, I don't see the necessary
mechanism to really do this in Python (can't def a function inside a list
literal, right?  and Python's lambda falls 'way short for this).  In the
specific situation, I don't feel the scale (up to half a dozen cases) is
such as to make the organizational advantages outweigh the obscuring of the
simple alternation logic that Carl refers to.  If there were several tens of
cases, the organizational advantage would weigh more heavily.

> happening.  I'll probably just factor the whole sequence into a
> function and use return when I got a match.

I was going to allude to a mildly annoying pile of state/context that would
need to be passed, but with the new nested scopes that I'm still not used to
expecting in Python...

> I guess some people have hissyfits if they have to use break or
> return; I don't.

Heck, I think gotos can be a superb way to implement a state machine;
returns and breaks bother me only when they're used in weird, ad-hoc ways. 
The use of return you describe above is a well-known pattern in my book, so
it's fine.

> and-if-I-were-programming-in-C-I'd-just-use-goto-ly yr's

I've been writing in C (far from exclusively) since about 1980.  Frankly,
I'm tired of working in assembler, even though it's quite the nicest
assembler I've ever used.



From usenet at imperialviolet.org  Thu Nov 28 12:31:11 2002
From: usenet at imperialviolet.org (Adam Langley)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:31:11 +0000
Subject: a simple question about class composition
References: <mailman.1038445791.28128.python-list@python.org> <uubandite0as47@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.28.17.31.11.83442@imperialviolet.org>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:34:34 +0000, Shaun Koerber wrote:

> Hi David,
> 
> I tried this code out on windows xp and it seemed to work fine.

Same here,
Python 2.2.2 [GCC 3.2] on linux2


From duncan at rcp.co.uk  Fri Nov 29 04:39:50 2002
From: duncan at rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:39:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Newbie Question, list = list + x VS append (x)
References: <mh4euu095fqqm9bmcgrpdrcvb5emgpkhlm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92D5618A3AFADduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>

Chuck <cdreward at riaa.com> wrote in
news:mh4euu095fqqm9bmcgrpdrcvb5emgpkhlm at 4ax.com: 

> def add2(n):
>     return [n+2]
> 
> x = y = [1,2]
> 
> print x # [1,2] - Ok
> 
> x = x + add2(5)
> 
> print x # [1,2,7] - why not [1,2,[7]]? add2 returns answer inside 
"[ ]"
> 
> 
> #...vs...
> 
> 
> print y # [1,2] - Ok
> 
> y.append( add2(5) ) 
> 
> print y # [1,2,[7]] - Ok; What I expected it to do
> 
> 
> I'm not clear what's going on when I do "list = list + function 
that
> returns list", i.e. why it's taking the 7 out of a list, where 
.append
> keeps it in... 

Ignore the function for now, it is just confusing you.

>>> x = [1, 2] + [7]
>>> print x
[1, 2, 7]
>>> y = [1, 2]
>>> y.append([7])
>>> print y
[1, 2, [7]]
>>> 

The + operator concatenates lists. i.e. it takes two lists and 
sticks them together as a single list. In your case you had a single 
element, but if the second list had been longer it might be more 
obvious:

>>> print [1, 2] + [7, 8, 9]
[1, 2, 7, 8, 9]

The append method of a list takes one object of any type, and puts 
that object on the end of the list.

Note that in the first case, using + to concatenate lists, both 
arguments to + must be lists but the second case doesn't care.

The 'extend' method of lists is the one that corresponds more 
closely to '+' than the append method, (although of course it 
modifies in place rather than creating a new list):

>>> x = y = [1, 2]
>>> x.extend([7,8])
>>> print x
[1, 2, 7, 8]
>>> print y
[1, 2, 7, 8]
>>> 



From dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 07:06:21 2002
From: dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 12:06:21 GMT
Subject: rss.py for win32.
References: <Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP@195.112.4.37> <915a998f.0211230925.4f65b67c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92D07B313FD94DaveP@195.112.4.37>

hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson) wrote 
> I don't know whether they work on Win32, but a couple of other modules
> are discussed in the following article about RSS for Python:
> 
>    http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/ws-pyth11.html

Thanks Hamish.

It was Uche's article that raised my interest.
He is Linux only and handn't realised it failed on win32.

regards daveP


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 11 13:20:01 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:20:01 -0700
Subject: [OT] Cameras (was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?)
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqgka6$t8j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqh2bo$7ti$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <aqh745$1iv$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqhata$ctr$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <aqopih$nnt$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqosch$37k$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Eddie Corns wrote:

>>ps. The above doesn't quite apply to 'prosumer' digital P&S like the Canon
>>G2/G3. Because the sensor is so small, those cameras actually have decent
>>zooms. And they also have all the manual controls typical of an SLR. That's
>>because it's the only way the companies can sell to the market who wants
>>manual control but can't afford a 2k-8k true digital SLR.
> 
> The G2 was what I went for in the end.  I'm happy and fairly impressed. 
> Time to learn a bit about photography I suppose.

Good choice (I have one). Fantastic camera for the price/size. The lens is 
excellent, and the image quality is also superb. With a good photo inkjet (an 
Epson) you can get beautiful 8x10s and even bigger (prob. up to 11x17 if 
you're not too picky at close range). The camera works like a P&S if you want 
it, but in manual mode you have full control. Enjoy!

f


From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Fri Nov 29 04:56:01 2002
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 01:56:01 -0800
Subject: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
References: <3DE4448E.5080201@attglobal.net> <pan.2002.11.27.20.00.00.396116@NOSPAM.optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <f199e60.0211290156.729446bc@posting.google.com>

"David Mitchell" <djmitchell at NOSPAM.optushome.com.au> wrote in message news:<pan.2002.11.27.20.00.00.396116 at NOSPAM.optushome.com.au>...
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:05:34 +0000, Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> 
> (snip)
> > 
> > What I'd like to be able to do is implement a complete GUI-based control 
> > application (with buttons, slider, whatever widgets the app needs) 
> > accessible over the web.
> > 
> > Is this possble with Python?  If so, where the best place to start looking?
> 
> I'm looking for exactly the same thing.  I know Perl has the
> CGI::Widget::* modules which do pretty much exactly this, but I don't want
> to use Perl for this particular project.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Dave Mitchell

While researching the web about the same question, I found
http://www.nextapp.com/products/echo/
With that (ahem) Java Framework, it is possible (at least they claim)
to write a web application just like a normal GUI application.
On the Python side, at least Alex Martelli has thought about providing
a HTML backend to anygui
(http://anygui.sourceforge.net/platforms.php).
If this ever worked it'd had the advantage to have one codebase for
the webapp and a native GUI for the same app.
If one is only looking into a way to separate HTML and programming
logic, Cheetah (cheetahtemplate.org) can be used to write a kind of
widget set.

Cheers

Stephan


From costanza at web.de  Sun Nov 24 16:45:06 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:45:06 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <arrh93$hkm$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>don't know perl, but the other side of the coin I did not mention is that the
>>data is strongly typed.
> 
> 
> Hmm, I thought untyped means that variables don't have any type associated
> with them at all (like in assembler).
> 
> 

The most useful terminology I have seen so far is as follows.

* weakly typed vs. strongly typed: all languages define types to a 
certain degree, however some languages allow you to break the type 
system. Weakly typed languages do so, whereas strongly typed languages 
do not.

* statically typed vs. dynamically typed: some languages enforce their 
type system at compile time and some do so at run time. (compile time = 
statically typed, run time = dynamically typed)

So for example:
* C/C++ are statically and weakly typed
* Java, Haskell, CAML are statically and strongly typed
* Common Lisp, Smalltalk, Python, Ruby are dynamically and strongly typed

These classifications are not strict - there are always languages that 
are somewhere in between. (So for example, there are a small number of 
exceptions in Java where the language reverts to dynamic typing.)

> Well, it's not just "pragmatic advantages", I do believe that in some points
> python's *design* is just superior. Iteration and container classes seem
> fairly crufty to me in CL (not knowing CL that well, I might be wrong, in
> which case I'd much appreciate to be enlightend).
> 
[...]

> python:                           CL:                                              
> 
>                                    
>  x = list[index]                   (elt arrayOrList index)
>  x = hash[key]                     (gethash key  hash) ;; *why* this arg-order?
>  x = myType[indexOrKey]            ; no generalized item access
>                                                                                    
[etc.]

Unified access is always a bit problematic. You should not access a list 
  (in Common Lisp) by index because the list must always be traversed up 
to the index on each access. (As far as I understand, what Python calls 
lists are in fact arrays, and arrays don't have that problem.)

Now, in small or even medium sized programs this doesn't matter that 
much, but in bigger programs it does.

(And you don't want to generally replace lists by arrays, because arrays 
have their respective disadvantages as well.)


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From facelle at libero.it  Sat Nov  9 17:47:25 2002
From: facelle at libero.it (Fabrizio)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 22:47:25 GMT
Subject: Numarray append 
Message-ID: <1ggz9.11678$Zn2.332778@twister1.libero.it>

Hi,

Is there a quick way to append elements to a Numarray array ?

I could not find any.

TIA

Fabrizio




From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 19 06:47:57 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:47:57 GMT
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <ar4rgh$nj2$1@panix3.panix.com> <ar5r65$uq6$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD85526.6020606@something.invalid> <ar9oqi$oil$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <7h34radwzql.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> IOW, IMO there ought to be a way to do a temporary global-side-effect-free
> import and delete all traces of its having been done -- without restarting
> the interpreter or invoking a second interpreter instance.

I don't think this is so hard:

def load_file(file, modname):
    import new
    mod = new.module(modname)
    exec open(file).read() in mod.__dict__
    return mod

Then mod should only have the one reference:

>>> import new
>>> sys.getrefcount(new.module('temp'))
1

Also see the imp module; some of the hooks there don't insert in
sys.modules (but I can't remember which ones now).

Cheers,
M.

-- 
 Two decades later, well-known hacker Henry Spencer described the 
 Perl scripting language as a "Swiss-Army chainsaw", intending to 
 convey his evaluation of the language as exceedingly powerful but 
 ugly and noisy and prone to belch noxious fumes.   -- the jargon file


From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Mon Nov  4 22:58:15 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:58:15 -0600
Subject: simple question
References: <20021105034034.20792.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c2847f$96e07280$ba01010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: xinghua shi 

> Hey, I am new to Python world. I wrote a simple program 
> but got error. Could someone help me fix this? Thanks. 
>
> import sys,os,string 
> 
> pid = os.getpid() 
> 
> filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid) 
> 
> print filename 
>
>       ^^^^^^^^^^Name error: name "filename" is not defined. 
> 
> Do I really need to define "filename" before use it? I 
> tried char *filename but still didn't work. Thanks for 
> the help. 
 
Your code works fine for me; but you didn't post exactly what
you ran, I'm sure.  Try copying it directly from the screen 
(the error traceback, that is) and also post the actual
text of your module (that is, insert it as an attachment).

You should also tell us what Python version you are using,
as a general practice; although this code should work on all
recent Python installs.

Give us some more info and we'll be happy to help.

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net





From pieroul at attglobal.net  Mon Nov 18 21:21:46 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:21:46 -0500
Subject: Pickle problem
References: <fafC9.11796$D02.511999@castor.casema.net>
Message-ID: <3DD9A03A.3090108@attglobal.net>


Guyon Mor?e wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> i have a pickle problem, can;t figure it out :(
> 
> i have a class called 'site'
> site has a root 'folder' class
> a folder class can contain 'pages' and other 'folder', ike a sort of tree.
> 
> now i have the open and save function done like this:
> 
> 
> def Save(self, Filename):
>         outFile = open(Filename,'w')
>         pickle.dump(self,outFile)
>         outFile.close()
> 
>     def Open(self, Filename):
>         inFile = open(Filename)
>         self = pickle.load(inFile)
>         inFile.close()
>         print str(self.Root.Pages)
> 
> 
> now i get the following error on the 'pickle.load' function:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "E:\Development\Projects\Python\pyBlogg\pyBlogg.py", line 46, in Open
>     self = pickle.load(inFile)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 981, in load
>     return Unpickler(file).load()
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 596, in load
>     dispatch[key](self)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 766, in load_inst
>     klass = self.find_class(module, name)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 823, in find_class
>     klass = getattr(mod, name)
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Site'
> 
> 
> and yes, my module _does_ have a Site -class.
> 
>

Just a guess...
The Open() function is nested inside Save().  Is it what you intended?
If so, you may have a problem with the access to the Site class.

-- 
         Pierre Rouleau



From theller at python.net  Tue Nov 19 02:56:11 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 08:56:11 +0100
Subject: Will python binaries compiled on vs.net?
References: <mailman.1037638533.5593.python-list@python.org> <VjdC9.14331$nK4.35697@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <fzty57sy.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <adk656xw.fsf@python.net>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> writes:
> 
> > I simply like the VC6 UI better.  I have a full VC7 installed here,
> > but never use it.
> > 
> Same for me, but one thing annoys me: if an access violation is raised
> or a breakpoint encountered, now VC7 pops up (after asking several
> questions) if I press the cancel button in the message box to debug
> the application.
> 
> So my question is: How can I restore the debugger from VC6 to be the
> default again?

Found it myself :-)

The path to the debugger is stored in HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows
NT\CurrentVersion\AeDebug, in a value named Debugger. Fortunately
MSVC7 saved the value from VC6 as PreVisualStudio7Debugger, so it was
easy to restore.

Thomas


From ral at spongebob.corporate.com  Mon Nov 11 17:15:24 2002
From: ral at spongebob.corporate.com (Ron Lau)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:15:24 -0600
Subject: Is python a good choice for this task?
References: <pan.2002.11.11.20.29.19.704887.2239@spongebob.corporate.com> <aqp58f$8pm$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.11.22.15.16.933436.2239@spongebob.corporate.com>

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:51:25 -0600, Fernando P?rez wrote:

> Ron Lau wrote:
> 
>> My question is, What language is best suited for this? Perl, Python, or
>> shell scripts?
> 
> Well, from each of the groups you posted to you'll get a different answer. But 
> of course, two of them will be wrong. You should use python :)
> 
> Kidding aside, such a simple task can be done in any of those without any 
> effort. I'd still suggest python because it's a better language than the 
> others for a number of things (yes, I've used all three extensively). 
> Especially if you have a scientific computing background: if you poke around 
> the web a bit, you'll find that python is becoming very popular in scientific 
> computing circles, and for good reason. See http://scipy.org/ or  
> http://mayavi.sourceforge.net/ for useful things in this direction.
> 
> The task you described will hardly illustrate the differences between these 
> languages. But when you decide you want to control your fortran CFD code 
> through a high-level language, load NetCDF or HDF5 data files, visualize them 
> with VTK, generate webpages out of the plot results, python will really begin 
> to shine. I recommend you read: 
> http://www.python.org/workshops/1997-10/proceedings/beazley.html before 
> making this decision. It's written from the viewpoint of a scientific 
> computing person, and while a bit old, it remains almost 100% true today. The 
> parts that have changed is simply that many of the tasks described in that 
> article are _far_ easier to do today than they were then.
> 
> Welcome!
> 
> f.
> 
> ps. Other useful links for python and scientific computing:
> http://www.pfdubois.com/numpy/
> http://starship.python.net/crew/hinsen/
> http://w3.pppl.gov/~hammett/comp/python/python.html

 

OK THEN! python it is.

So I guess I'll be back later begging for help.

:P

R.


From wilk-spamout at flibuste.net  Wed Nov 13 11:17:22 2002
From: wilk-spamout at flibuste.net (William)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 17:17:22 +0100
Subject: perl2python
References: <87y97xmy6o.fsf@flibuste.net> <slrnat56fd.dv.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <mailman.1037200998.14539.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87d6p9mokt.fsf@flibuste.net>

pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (Fran?ois Pinard) writes:
-------------- next part --------------

> [Wojtek Walczak]
> 
> > Dnia 13 Nov 2002 13:49:51 +0100, William napisa?(a):
> > > I want to convert a little perl script to python, is there a tools for
> > > that ?
> 
> > Haven't heard of something like that...
> 
> I have something in the works, within my pile of dreams.  But it seems like
> a major and difficult project.  It currently holds 16500 lines of Python.

finaly i find this :
http://www.crazy-compilers.com/bridgekeeper/
but it throw me somes errors, finaly i will have to learn perl to run
this converter, and so i will not need it !

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net

From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 13 09:28:35 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:28:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Calling a function of a package from the shell
References: <slrnarqsep.6cn.hat@se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl>
Message-ID: <slrnat55ti.d7.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:20:10 +0000 (UTC), Albert Hofkamp napisa?(a):
> I am writing a remote execution Python package called exec_proxy for Unix
> systems, and as part of the functionality, I need to start a Python program
> at the remote machine.
[...]
> ssh machine /usr/bin/python2 -c \
> 	"import exec_proxy.remote ; exec_proxy.remote.run()"
Use __import__ instead of import, for example:

% python -c "print getattr(__import__('sys'), 'version')"
2.2.2 (#1, Oct 16 2002, 18:08:06)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)]

or a shorter version:

% python -c "s=__import__('sys'); print s.version"
2.2.2 (#1, Oct 16 2002, 18:08:06)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)]

-- 
[ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ ]
[ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) underground.org.pl  ]


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  9 23:25:52 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 21:25:52 -0700
Subject: Newbie- how to basics
References: <8d3e714e.0211071600.2a98b136@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqkn4o$gks$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Tony C wrote:

> I've gone through much of the documentation included with Python
> 2.2.2, but can find any kind of reference on how to clear the screen
> from a python script, or at the command line.
> 
> 
> Another useful feature would be command line history (up arrow, down
> arrow, etc), like in the Unix shells.
> 
> Would ssomeone point me to some docs (specific locations) which
> descibe these features ?
> 

You may want to try IPython at
http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython/

It's a python interactive shell which has all of those already set for you. 

>From a python script, you make system calls via os.system():

import os
os.system('clear')  # calls the 'clear' system command in a sub-shell

Cheers,

f


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sun Nov  3 10:49:24 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 10:49:24 -0500
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <aq3dfb$spu$1@news.hccnet.nl> <aq3fib$r1$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3DC54584.1040304@rogers.com>

Hmm, maybe the PyGTA group could help by distracting her with a barrage 
of dates?  It would certainly be less work than building the refactoring 
tool, and one less person coding Java reduces the total pain in the 
world just that much more ;) ...

We needed to have a meeting sometime soon anyway :) ,
Mike

Aahz wrote:

>In article <aq3dfb$spu$1 at news.hccnet.nl>,
>Anton Vredegoor <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote:
>  
>
>>Three step solution:
>>
>>1) Eat the food ;-)
>>    
>>
>
>Good idea.
>
>  
>
>>2) Write a refactoring tool for Java using Python
>>    
>>
>
>Don't know Java well to do that.
>
>  
>
>>3) Ask her for a date
>>    
>>
>
><chuckle>  She lives in Toronto (I'm in California) and I'm not her type.
>But we'll be seeing each other in Boston next weekend.
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From antonio.p at libero.it  Mon Nov 11 13:55:54 2002
From: antonio.p at libero.it (Antonio.P)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:55:54 GMT
Subject: PHP and Python image instruction
Message-ID: <_2Tz9.18157$Bs5.645978@news1.tin.it>

Hi to all.
Is there in python an equivalent php instruction of
imagecopyresampled.
This instrucrution resize the image without reducing quality.
In python resizing images reduce quality of image.

Thank you




From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Tue Nov 26 09:33:54 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:33:54 GMT
Subject: Newbie IDLE - import issues
Message-ID: <3DE3873E.7010300@nyc.rr.com>

I must misunderstand things badly.

Using IDLE: I have import statements where apparently necessary. I hit 
Ctrl-F5 and I see print statements at the end of imported modules fire.

But I still get errors on imported stuff being undefined.

Then I open the imported file and ^f5 it and then I can ^f5 successfully 
the importing file which before gave me an error.

any help with this would be appreciated. As is I end up having to open 
ten files and run them manually every morning.

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From root at [127.0.0.1]  Wed Nov 20 08:54:27 2002
From: root at [127.0.0.1] (nobody)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:54:27 +1000
Subject: Deep XML modification..
References: <3ddb6d4f$0$18869$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <3DDB79FE.8D1CDC41@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3ddb9413$0$18869$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

Disregard... I was using one of the methods incorrectly.

Are there any better/more in-depth Python specific tutorials for SAX and/or
DOM, than the ones included in PyXML and on the Python site?





From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 26 19:13:21 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:13:21 -0800
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <698f09f8.0211261046.582254a5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DE40E21.A547F49E@alcyone.com>

Jeremy Fincher wrote:

> The biggest problem with filter, map, and reduce is that they're
> functions, not methods.

But since they can operate on _any_ sequence, this makes the most sense.

> All this discussion about list comprehensions
> versus filter/map ignores one major disadvantage of list
> comprehensions: that they only work with lists.  If filter/map/reduce
> had been *methods* on list objects, then a programmer could implement
> his own container objects (binary trees, subclasses of list, etc.)

But there are several other things that can act as sequence objects,
such as strings, tuples, or user-defined types that don't derive from
list but define a __getitem__ method.  filter, map, and reduce really do
belong in the realm of standalone functions, not methods, because they
can apply to any type that _acts_ as a list, whether or not it is a
list, a builtin sequence, or even something which at first sight doesn't
appear to be a sequence type at all (but acts the part).

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Everyone wants to look good at his own funeral.
\__/ Louis Wu
    PyUID / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/uid/
 A module for generating "unique" IDs in Python.


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Wed Nov 20 19:48:58 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 00:48:58 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBB8BD.6020806@web.de>
Message-ID: <yfszns3u4qt.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> writes:

> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> > Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:
> >
> 
> 
> >>Puzzled. "scale well" to me means "what happens when you try to use it for a
> >>big project" or possibly a small project with big runtime resource
> >>requirements. CL is great at either, precisely because it can do a lot.
> > "Scale well" normaly implies up, but what I mainly meant is that CL doesn't
> 
> > scale down well in a couple of ways. One factor are users: CL is a poor
> > language for people who don't have, X (say 18) months or so of time to spare
> > to learn CL (which includes pretty much everyone except people who want to
> > program professionally in CL or language afficados). This doesn't imply that
> > you can only use CL productively after learning it for X months, but unless
> > you plan to spend this overall amount, some other language (python, for
> > example) is likely to be a better choice.
> 
> Where do you get these numbers from?

The learning time? From the relevant authorities from comp.lang.lisp, of
course, in this case Erik Naggum :) 18 months is the time he expects it will
take people to become CL experts (NB: expert *in* the language *not* expert
user, which obviously takes longer):

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=3238543378011762%40naggum.no

Anyway, the number wasn't meant that seriously by me, the only thing that
matters is that it is comparatively high. The investment needed to become
productive in CL and the effect on the likelihood of people evaluating CL at
all is a more serious issue than lispers generally seem to appreciate. (Note
that by productive I mean *competitive* to alternatives you already know or
could learn instead). Clearly people will only be wiling to make such an
investment when the perceived potential gains match it. The thing is, however,
that with languages like python, you can get many of the benefits (plus
additional ones) and few of the uncertainties with much less of an investment
(read risk).


> 
> I have started to take a serious look at Lisp and Scheme in April (i.e., April
> 2002). I have started to implement a Virtual Machine for Java bytecode in
> Common Lisp in July 2002 (i.e., a just-in-time compiler that translates Java
> bytecode to Common Lisp code at load time). The core of this Virtual Machine
> executes the first few test programs since the beginning of this month
> (November 2002).
> 
> 
> So in effect, I have successfully written a piece of software in Common Lisp
> within 5 months that I wouldn't even have attempted to write in any other
> language. (And I have only spent about 8 hours per week because I have done it
> in my spare time.)

Impressive, but maybe your modesty also leads you to underestimate the
relative contributions of your own intellect and the fact that you specialize
in programming language research? 

BTW, doing something along those lines for python would also be quite
interesting (any chance that this might be your next hobby project :)?  I
guess such an effort could also be quite useful to the CL community (among
other things because python has lots of quite usable libraries and because a
successful project along those lines might attract quite a bit of attention).

> 
> For average programmers (whatever that means), I firmly believe that Common
> Lisp is among the best choices to learn quite a number of advanced concepts
> that _make_ them more professional.
> 

Yes and no. Depends on what you mean by "average". I think for those people
who are not acquainted with the advanced concepts python already offers,
python might be a better start, for two kinds of reasons:

a) conceptual: it has fewer powerful features and features of comparable
   expressiveness are often easier to use in python (e.g. keyword arguments
   and apply'ing or resizable arrays).

b) motivational: it is easier to do something small but useful with python

but I'd definitely agree that having a look at CL is most worthwhile.

> 
> It's true that end users probably don't benefit a lot from Common
> Lisp. However, I am not sure about this bit. (What you can do is to divide the
> work load among experts on the one hand who design domain-specific languages
> and end users on the other hand that use these domain-specific
> languages. Common Lisp's features are excellent for this scheme. BTW, that's
> the whole point of the field of Generative Programming.)

Well python seems quite successful as a "domain specific" language for "end
users" (in both scientific contexts and as an extension language for office
applications etc.). I haven't heard the same about CL (I guess Graham's home
page builder might qualify, but I've never seen a single application of CL for
such purposes myself).

> 
> Operations on files and directories in Common Lisp are designed to be portable
> across different operating systems. (Note that in this regard, Unix and, say,
> Windows file systems are very similar.)

Python's operations on files and directories are also portable between any OS
in practical use, as far as I can tell.

> 
> 
> You can't pick an arbitrary part of a language/library and blame it for its
> complexity. You could also state that Python doesn't make it easy to do
> conceptually simple and common things and then name macro programming as an
> example. Macro programming is in fact conceptually simple and common in Lisp!
> 

Conceptually simple? To a computer scientist, yes, but I guess lambda calculus
is also conceptually simple. Common? Well, everyone I read on macros and CL
always stressed that they should be only used most sparingly (Graham, a big
fan of macros, says he'd only trust a few people enough to actually write
some).

> 
> Each language has its strengths and weaknesses in different areas. I don't

Yes, but some languages are crap and others aren't.  Also we were not talking
about strengths and weaknesses in general but accessibility (which certainly
can be traded off against other desirable properties).

> know a single language that's equally strong in all areas. (So I think that
> neither your statement nor my statement made up on the spot about macro
> programming in Python make any sense.)
> 

Well, I beg to differ as far my statement is concerned :) File operations and
directory operations are fairly basic and ubiquitous -- if they are awkward
for some reason it does affect the accessibility of a language (unless it
isn't designed for such operations because, say it is meant for mobile
telephones).

> 
> > 2. try to write something in 1-100 lines in CL that couldn't easier be
> >    written in e.g. python.
> 
> Hello World in Common Lisp:
> 
>  > "Hello, World!"
> "Hello, World!"
> 
> I hope you get the joke. ;-)


Afraid not. Would it help if I added "something practically useful"?

> 
> > 3. just think of how many ways there are to express quite similar
> >    conditional or looping constructs.
> 
> How do you measure readability?
> 

Good question. I really think ergonomical questions like this would merit more
empirical research. Unfortunately, language designers don't generally seem to
be that interested into psychological research or usability studies (python's
predecessor ABC, if I'm not mistaken, has received some attention along those
lines, however).

But here is what an highly experiences Lisper (Peter Norvig) has to say on the
matter:

"Python seems to be easier to read than Lisp for someone with no experience in
either language. The Python code I developed looks much more like the
(independently developed) pseudo-code in the book than does the Lisp
code. This is important, because some students were complaining that they had
a hard time seeing how the pseudo-code in the book mapped into the online Lisp
code (even though it seemed obvious to Lisp programmers)."


> Meiner Meinung nach h?ngt das im wesentlichen immer davon ab, welche Sprache
> man zuerst gelernt hat, oder welche man am h?ufigsten benutzt.

[Pascal stresses (prior) exposure]

I don't think so. There are limits on what our minds can do well and fast,
irrespective of how much practice we receive. Show me someone who'll read
machine code faster than python. I suspect that prior experience is more
important for shaping irrational predilections (such as C's stupid braces or
static typing). I and others balked at python's use of whitespace on first
exposure, but found it much more readable within very short time.

> 
> 
> If you don't understand this, would you consider German to be less readable
> than English? (Run that sentence through http://babelfish.altavista.com to get
> my point. ;)

Nicht notwendig ;)

> 
> 
> > 4. try e.g. modifying constant lists or writing a LOOP with undefined
> >    behavior, or modifying the (string) keys in a hash-table.
> >
> 
> 
> In any language I know, beginners make similar mistakes.
> 

There are obviously pitfalls and undefined behaviors in every language, but
they are most certainly *not* all equal in this regard. Python is specifically
designed with the aim in mind to make it *difficult* for people to shoot
themselves in the foot, even if it's at the expense of conciseness or
expressiveness.

For example you can't assign in a statement:

while c = f.readline():
   ...

is illegal in python. Similarly, strings are immutable and mutable types like
lists don't come with __hash__ methods, so they can't be used as dict
(i.e. hashtable) keys.


> >>and then one just keeps on learning more and more cool stuff because it is
> >>so rich.
> > Well, in python you can also learn new cool stuff till you reached a fairly
> 
> > high level (e.g. generators and metaclasses), but most of the code you write
> > will still be quite readable to less clued programmers, because simple things
> > are invariably expressed in pretty much the same way. So while a newbie might
> > have problems groking my generator code, most other things should still be
> > ok. I want to see the CL newbie that understands e.g. the series, dolist, loop
> > and mapcar etc. version of the same algorithm.
> 
> Common Lisp is not designed for newbies but for experts. 

Well the funny thing is, python is designed for newbies *and* experts and it
works remarkably well.

from www.norvig.com:

"Python supports all of Lisp's essential features except macros, and you don't
miss macros all that much because it does have eval, and operator overloading,
and regular expression parsing, so you can create custom languages that way."

[...]

"Nowhere did I feel that Python was missing something that made it hard to
implement something I had done in Lisp."

And not only is that from somebody who wrote one of the best lisp books, the
last statement also refers to porting his AI code, an area were CL is supposed
to be especially strong.


> IMO, newbies should aim at becoming experts. 
I disagree. Thankfully most people don't waste valuable lifetime in a quest to
become expert programmers (the sorry state of the computing industry
invariably means that in the process of becoming an expert you have to
memorize copious amounts of trash). I wouldn't really want to change
that. There are plenty of legitimate and important uses of programming by
people who neither have the resources nor care to become expert programmers.

Naturally, professional programmers are a different matter and I'd really like
to see more people learn lisp (rather than say, C++).

> See http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html for some insights related to this
> point.

Sure, I know Graham's essay and I think he makes some good points, but I find
his secret-weapon-lisp argument quite unconvincing (how many success stories
exist for all sorts of (sometimes quite demanding) projects done in crap
languages like C? Do you know any other examples except Graham of people whom
CL made rich?). Either people are really good at keeping their secret weapons
secret, or lispers overestimate the productivity gain of CL over alternatives.

alex

P.S. I really got to do some work now, so I might not be able to reply till
sometime over the weekend.


From utakecare2 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 13 16:15:20 2002
From: utakecare2 at yahoo.com (lily)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:15:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RE function
Message-ID: <20021113211520.46197.qmail@web10202.mail.yahoo.com>


Hello,

 I need help. I am trying to parse some strings where I want to use the RE function. How can I find all the lines that start with '(object Operation' and should contain the word 'Trace' followed by ': {'  ?  

(object Operation...  

|Trace: {...}



... ))

I tried using the following code to capture all the instances of these patterns:

tracepattern = re.compile("\(object\s+Operation<.*?>+\sTrace<.*?>\)")
traceoperations = re.findall(tracepattern, operations)

Can you please tell me what is wrong with the above code? 

Thanks.

a newbie.



---------------------------------
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From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Thu Nov 28 07:10:34 2002
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:10:34 GMT
Subject: LAN communication under windows
Message-ID: <3de60530.10377734@news.easynews.net>

Hi,

for a little (net) game i am planning, i have to write two components,
a client and a server module. If one of the gamers starts the
clientmodule on his machine this prog has to connect to the server,
register itself with the username and receive a list of users that
have their client module running. When exiting the client module it
has to unregister at the server module. So nothing very special.

Except that I have no idea how to start or where to look? Do I have to
use services or sockets or something else? I am sure there is a simple
example somewhere, but i can't find it.

Any hints or help?

Thanks,
marcus


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Nov  6 12:43:35 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:43:35 GMT
Subject: Subclassing the min() build-in function?
References: <18eef4ae.0211060911.2c0a7731@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bxcy9.2820$h%5.100614@newsb.telia.net>

Peter Lorenzen wrote:

> I am using Jython to calculate a string like this:  "2+3+min(1,2,3)"
> from my Java pro-gram. This works beautifully. But my problem is that
> if a user wants to calculate min(1) Python considers this an error. I
> want it to return 1. If I could figure out how to subclass the min
> function

(subclass?  since when is "min" a class?)

to override a builtin function, you can do something like
this:

import __builtin__

builtin_min = __builtin__.min

def min(*args):
    try:
        return builtin_min(*args)
    except TypeError:
        if len(args) == 1:
            return args[0]
        raise

__builtin__.min = min

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 26 20:19:44 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:19:44 -0800
Subject: some questions....
References: <arumtk$pqa$1@newsreader.mailgate.org> <sk76uukvis36m9d0vvinnoc8132l34jtma@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <gj61sa.3o3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Tim Roberts fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 25 November 2002 
11:34 pm:

> 
> At this point, the variable "C" does not exist.  That's why you get an
> error.  What surprises ME is that it was able to find "c".  What that
> tells me is that the interpreter creates the object, assigns it to
> "c", and THEN
> calls __init__.  __init__, then, is able to find the global variable
> "c".

        Look closely at the conditional in the __init__ -- it doesn't attempt 
to access "c" during that assignment.
> 
>>    d = simple(b)

        THAT assignment, passing "b" (=4) activates the "print c" line.


-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Fri Nov  1 04:25:29 2002
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:25:29 GMT
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg> <3mrw9.71925$TD1.3188780@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3dc24583.11506984@news.t-online.de>

On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:57:35 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>
wrote:

>But in general, you should rely on
>the law to protect your programs against unauthorized use, not on
>illusory "protection".  "Security through obscurity isn't".

Lets imagine this: you are a small company of specialists that writes
some python module. You are in direct company with a big, possibly
very big company. They do not have any experts in your area (they are
a big company, so they do lots of stuff besides the area you are in).
So, they just take your code, because its readily available - the
source is right there in the installed directory. Chances are that
you, the small company, will never live long enough to see the end of
a lawsuit. Plus, lawsuits can be very *very* expensive. Plus, if
you're a big company, chances are your lawyers are just more and
better than mine. Plus, the best thing you can expect to come out from
a lawsuit against a big company is - an agreement. Does the term
Microsoft anti-monopoly lawsuit ring a bell? 

So, poof goes the fine license. 

I'm not assuming that code cannot be "cracked" - I'm just thinking
that making it *that* easy doesn't exactly help.

As for a solution, I've toyed around with a import hook that reads
data from encrypted files some time ago, but haven't followed up on it
lately. Encrypted files are enough to stop "casual" cracking - which
is sufficient for the above mentioned goal. 




From jkraska at san.rr.com  Mon Nov 25 23:12:28 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:12:28 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <arsni0$pnk$1@news.netpower.no> <slrnau4sle.9as.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <sss5uus0o18jtdi2lcpp3605vfgscmvmum@4ax.com>

On 25 Nov 2002 18:56:10 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

>In article <arsni0$pnk$1 at news.netpower.no>, David Brown wrote:
>
>>> I never liked filter, map and reduce.
>
>So don't use them. ;)

Lambda is an abortion, imo. It should be deprecated, and eventually
removed from the language. It doesn't do what it set out to do particularly
well, and suffers from the double sin of being a construct that is
inherently anti-pythonic. The subset of list comprehensions that can
be used to do what map/reduce-lambda do are an example of something
that does what it was intended, is clear, and pythonic.

Just an opinion,

C//



From sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net  Mon Nov  4 15:20:04 2002
From: sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:20:04 +0100
Subject: Adding ftputil to the Python distribution?
Message-ID: <aq6kpl$td1$1@news.online.de>

ftputil is a module for accessing FTP hosts in a more abstract way than
is possible with ftplib. ftputil hides the FTP protocol - and even the
access to an FTP server. For example, reading from and writing to file-like
objects corresponding to files on a remote host are possible.

ftputil may be of general enough use to put in into the Python standard
library, I was told. Comments?


Links:

Module description and download:
http://www.sschwarzer.net/python/python_software.html

Original announcement for version 1.0:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-January/082771.html

Announcement of version 1.1
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-April/097078.html


Stefan



From bobx at linuxmail.org  Sat Nov 23 09:59:25 2002
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Bob X)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:59:25 GMT
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net> <743utuoi3l31t8e8tt9v3sncosuk2gqi02@4ax.com> <1239.92T1047T4844497threeseas@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <hJMD9.949$ov6.508568@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Timothy Rue" <threeseas at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1239.92T1047T4844497threeseas at earthlink.net...
<snip>
> so what the fuck don't you understand about a named container that can
> hold changable information? Like a variable or a file. Or hell, how about
> variables in files..
>
You know my mother used to say that if you have to use curse words like that
you were ignorant. Guess she was right...again!




From laurent.szyster at q-survey.be  Wed Nov 20 10:00:26 2002
From: laurent.szyster at q-survey.be (Laurent Szyster)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:00:26 GMT
Subject: Finalization, Continuation and two questions about the Garbage Collector
Message-ID: <esNC9.69$IK5.40169@amsnews02.chello.com>

Hello,

Below is an implementation of the Finalization pattern and what I called 
Continuation (though I'm not sure about that one), along with an test 
case. The question are: in what order - if any - will the garbage 
collector call the collected instances' __del__ method; in which thread 
would that method be invoked?

Thanks,


Laurent Szyster


***


class Finalization:

	def __call__ (self, instance):
		"to subclass for chainable Finalization"
		print '%r.__call__ (%r)' % (self, instance)

	def finalization (self, instance):
		print '%r.finalization (%r)' % (self, instance)

	def __del__ (self):
		if self.finalization == None:
			return

		finalization = self.finalization
		self.finalization = None
		finalization (self)


class Finalizations (Finalization):

	def __init__ (self, finalizations):
		self.finalizations = finalizations

	def __call__ (self, instance):
		for finalization in self.finalizations:
			finalization (instance)

	finalization = None


def continuation (finalizations):
	"combines finalization instances into one execution path"
	assert len (finalizations) > 1
	last = finalization = finalizations.pop ()
	while finalizations:
		finalizations[-1].finalization = finalization
		finalization = finalizations.pop ()
	return finalization, last


class Continue:

	finalization = None

	def __init__ (self, finalizations):
		self.__call__, self.last = continuation (finalizations)

	def __del__ (self):
		self.last.finalization = self.finalization

# Test Case

class Finalized (Finalization):
	def __init__ (self, label):
		self.label = label
	def __repr__ (self):
		return self.label
print '--- sequence'
Continue ([Finalized ('A'), Finalized ('B'), Finalized ('C')])
print '--- chainable'
Continue (
	[Finalized ('1'), Finalized ('2')]
	).finalization = Continue (
		[Finalized ('3'), Finalized ('4'), Finalized ('5')]
		)
print '--- joinable'
Continue (
	[Finalized ('1'), Finalized ('2')]
	).finalization = \
Continue (
	[Finalized ('A'), Finalized ('B'), Finalized ('C')]
	).finalization = Continue (
		[Finalized ('3'), Finalized ('4'), Finalized ('5')]
		)
print '--- embeddable'
Continue ([
	Finalized ('A'),
	Finalized ('B'),
	Finalized ('C'),
	Continue (
		[Finalized ('1'), Finalized ('2'), Finalized ('3')]
		),
	Finalized ('D'),
	Continue (
		[Finalized ('4'), Finalized ('5'), Finalized ('6')]
		)
	]).finalization = Finalized ('Z')



From oussoren at cistron.nl  Tue Nov  5 12:29:09 2002
From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:29:09 +0100
Subject: List slice assignment and custom sequences
In-Reply-To: <m2k7jsm7u7.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <17ED8833-F0E4-11D6-A85E-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>

On Tuesday, Nov 5, 2002, at 15:03 Europe/Amsterdam, Michael Hudson 
wrote:

> Ronald Oussoren <oussoren at cistron.nl> writes:
>
>> No, I want to replace part of a sequence by another sequence. I don't
>> understand _why_ the RHS must be a list if the LHS is one.
>
> Because Objects/listobject.c:list_ass_slice pokes directly into the
> object passed on the RHS.
>
> A patch to change this would have some chance of getting accepted;
> wouldn't like to guess what, but I'd hazard non-zero.
I sure hope so. I've posted a bug+patch at SF for a related problem: 
With the introduction of new-style classes 'isinstance(obj, list)' no 
longer guarantees that you can savely poke in the RHS instead of using 
the __getitem__ accessor function.

Ronald




From anton.wilson at camotion.com  Tue Nov  5 16:02:14 2002
From: anton.wilson at camotion.com (anton wilson)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:02:14 -0500
Subject: power TypeErrors
Message-ID: <200211052054.PAA05238@nealtech.net>

I'm trying to understand the possible type errors for **

The language reference states that


The power operator has the same semantics as the built-in pow() function, 
when called with two arguments: it yields its left argument raised to the 
power of its right argument. The numeric arguments are first converted to a 
common type. The result type is that of the arguments after coercion; if the 
result is not expressible in that type (as in raising an integer to a 
negative power, or a negative floating point number to a broken power), a 
TypeError exception is raised. 



I'm running code such as: 

1 ** -2
-1.2 ** 0.5

and there is no type error.

How do I generate a type error?


Anton



From wurmy at earthlink.net  Tue Nov 26 20:10:33 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:10:33 GMT
Subject: accessing front of a list
References: <as1539$693$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DE41D5D.2000406@earthlink.net>

Simon Bunker wrote:
> This is probably a fairly newbie question - and also because I am
> coming from a Perl background. I was wondering if there is a Python
> equivilant to Perls shift operator?
> 
> There seem to be many ways of getting access to the end of an array -
> pop() append() etc but I couldn't find anyting to shift off the front like
> when
> reading in argv.

You probably want pop(0):

 >>> a = range(5)
 >>> x = a.pop(0)
 >>> x
0
 >>> a
[1, 2, 3, 4]

...but destructive processing of lists this way is relatively rare, IMHO.

> This may be becausde I was only learning from the online tutorial/docs which
> I have't finished going through. Are there any books worth buying -
> particularly
> O'Reilley ones? I have seen Learning Python but don't know if this will
> cover much more
> (although the Perl Llama book isalways useful for Perl), the Programming
> Python
> and Python Cookbook and the Standalrd Library book. It would be nice if
> there was a
> "in a Nutshell" one.

People are working on it...

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA=='))
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/
Kaa:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/kaa.html



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Nov 25 01:48:53 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:48:53 +0100
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
In-Reply-To: <arsft1$h94$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>; from m.faassen@vet.uu.nl on Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 06:27:45AM +0000
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net> <arsft1$h94$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <20021125074853.Q11257@prim.han.de>

Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Timothy Rue <threeseas at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Python Dicktatorshit.
> [snip irc log]
> 
> Hey,
> 
> Too bad I wasn't around on irc at that time, I would've enjoyed this
> discussion. 

That's a vain attempt to make people believe you are not the Rue-Bot.

    holger



From pu at myRealBox.com  Sat Nov  2 12:48:02 2002
From: pu at myRealBox.com (pu)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:48:02 +0100
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on OS/390 V2R10
Message-ID: <3dc40ef1_1@news.vo.lu>

Hi again,
same question for the mainframe OS.
If so, I guess it will be USS, therefore a 2nd question: is it callable from
JCL? from CICS?
-PU




From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  8 09:37:38 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:37:38 -0000
Subject: loggin out automatically
References: <1036253358.19897.0@doris.uk.clara.net> <usea4eqqgbrped@corp.supernews.com> <3DC853DF.6060509@cyberspace.org> <omubqa.812.ln@anto.cuni.lan>
Message-ID: <usnj1idf2a9837@corp.supernews.com>

In article <omubqa.812.ln at anto.cuni.lan>,
Antonio Cuni  <TOGLIMIcuni at programmazione.it> wrote:
>trewornan wrote:
>
>> I am responsible for maintaining a PC in a hotel which is available for
>> use of guests, basically just e-mail and web browsing. We are currently
>> using a program called "timewatcher" which allows me to provide "access
>> codes" each code providing a particular period of access - 20, 30, 60
>> min or whatever
>
>You could use this script as the default shell for guests; it 
>automatically kills bash after a fixed amount of time:
>
>import os
>import time
>import signal
>
>MAX_LOGIN_TIME = 5 # seconds
>
>pid = os.fork()
>
>if pid == 0:
>    # the child
>    os.execv('/bin/bash', ['/bin/bash'])
>else:
>    # the parent
>    time.sleep(MAX_LOGIN_TIME)
>    os.kill(pid, signal.SIGTERM)
			.
			.
			.
Seconded.  Something like this will probably serve you
even better than your current "timewatcher".  I think
you'll end up pleasantly surprised at how simple and
flexible such operations are under Linux.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From dfinner at Kollsman.com  Mon Nov 18 12:04:33 2002
From: dfinner at Kollsman.com (dfinner at Kollsman.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:04:33 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] count words
Message-ID: <85256C75.005DCDAA.00@Notes.kollsman.com>


Found it.  The word is spelled 'Dolch'.  This link has several to specific
lists.

http://www.learning.caliberinc.com/reading.html

One little letter - thank heavens for Google, I searched on 'first grade
education reading words'.

Doug

</snip>
...expand this model to include Dolce words...
<snip/>





From oliver at rutherfurd.net  Thu Nov  7 08:54:29 2002
From: oliver at rutherfurd.net (Oliver Rutherfurd)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 07:54:29 -0600
Subject: ht2html and reStructured text
Message-ID: <030a01c28665$31cf6710$181e140a@appdevlaptop001>

Hi Jim,

"Jim Tittsler" <jwt at starship.python.net> wrote in message
news:slrnasko6l.29d.jwt at twin.dskk.co.jp...
> Has anyone merged ht2html and reStructured text?

I've written an '.ht' writer for docutils which will convert
reStructuredText to an '.ht' file. It is not yet part of
docutils, but I hope it will be included in a future release.

It can be found in the docutils sandbox here:

http://docutils.sourceforge.net/sandbox/oliverr/ht/

To use it, you'll need a recent snapshot of docutils and the 2 .py
files from the above location. Copy them like so:

rst2ht.py -> <docutils>/tools/
hthtml.py -> <docutils>/writers/

> In addition to the bulk of my pages which are now in the .ht
> "html fragment" format, I have a number of documents in
> structured text that I would also like to include in a series
> of pages.

In the future I'd like to see tighter integration of the 2 (or it be
easier to use reStructuredText from ht2html), however I'm new to
ht2html and am still trying to figure out how to make it work the way
I'd like it to.  Mainly I want the same nav links throughout a directory
tree and I'd also like breadcrumbs instead of site links on top. I only
spent a little time with ht2html when I started re-working my site a
couple weeks ago, but then got caught up in other things and am
still trying to get back to it.

-Ollie
oliver at rutherfurd.net

ps - I haven't got a nntp server to post to, so I've just sent this to
you and cc'd python-list.




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Nov 27 14:25:02 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:25:02 -0600
Subject: More pythonic way to change an element of a tuple?
In-Reply-To: <20021127182218.GD9830@unpythonic.net>
References: <as314e$c4u$2@naig.caltech.edu> <20021127182218.GD9830@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20021127192501.GE9830@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 12:22:19PM -0600, Jeff Epler wrote:
> Of course, if you "mutate" your "tuples" less frequently than you access
> the dict with them, this will likely be slower, since you have the
> tuple() call once per get/set, instead of once per "mutate".
> 
> You could also hide this in a class.
>     class MutableTuple:
>         def __init__(self, t): self.t = t
> 
>         # Set up minimum code to act as a dict key
>         def __hash__(self): return hash(self.t)
>         def __cmp__(self, other): return cmp(self.t, other)
> 
>         # And the method to mutate
>         def inc(self, i):
>             self.t = increment_tuple_item(self.t, i)

.. and if you sometimes mutate more often than you access, and sometimes
access more often than you mutate, take a lazy approach.

    class MutableTuple:
        def ensure_list(self):
                if not isinstance(self.t, list): self.t = list(self.t)

        def ensure_tuple(self):
                if not isinstance(self.t, tuple): self.t = tuple(self.t)

        def __hash__(self):
                self.ensure_tuple()
                return hash(self.t)
        ...
        def inc(self, i):
                self.ensure_list()
                self.t[i] += 1

You might choose to inline ensure_list/ensure_tuple to avoid paying the
extra method-call overhead, however.

Jeff



From the_mr_man26 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 29 06:14:02 2002
From: the_mr_man26 at hotmail.com (Mr Man)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 03:14:02 -0800
Subject: PyXML unable to make_parser twice
References: <999e7ee9.0211281048.786d3867@posting.google.com> <m3vg2hmm9m.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <999e7ee9.0211290314.6a3f665a@posting.google.com>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis wrote in message news:<m3vg2hmm9m.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>...
> the_mr_man26 at hotmail.com (Mr Man) writes:
> 
> > Now obviously - I need to free something or other in between creating
> > the first one - and creating the second one - but I am not sure what.
> 
> No, this is a bug in PyXML.
> 
> The most likely reason why you triggered this bug is that you don't
> have a working PyExpat installed. Please try to import
> xml.parsers.expat. If that fails, correct the error.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin

Thanks Martin - I tried what you mentioned with the following results

akira:~/4Suite-0.12.0a3 # python
Python 2.1.1 (#1, Sep 24 2001, 05:28:47)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (SuSE)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import xml.parsers.expat
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.1/xml/parsers/expat.py", line 4, in ?
    from pyexpat import *
ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.1/xml/parsers/pyexpat.so: undefined
symbol: _PyObject_GC_Del
>>>

I installed the 4Suite package (this is where PyExpat is isn't it?)
from source but it didn't have any effect.  What do I need to do to
ensure that PyExpat is installed correctly?

Thanks a lot

Paul..


From vasisht at eden.rutgers.edu  Fri Nov 15 00:25:37 2002
From: vasisht at eden.rutgers.edu (Vasisht Tadigotla)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:25:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: rm -rf in python?
In-Reply-To: <3DD478CD.2080608@verio.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.44.0211150022100.21640-100000@er7.rutgers.edu>

> Is there a way (short of executing a shell command) that I can do a rm
> -rf on a directory from python?  It raises an OSError if you try to
> delete a directory that has contents.  I suppose that I could recurse
> down through, deleteing as I went, but it seems that there must be an
> easier way.

use the  rmtree() function in shutil module, works on *nix. i don't think
it works on windows though.

vasisht



---------------------------------------------------------------------
"A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound
desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to
avoid getting wet.  This is the defining metaphor of my life right now."







From maney at pobox.com  Tue Nov 12 19:13:35 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:13:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
> But I guess the discipline of having to explain this over and over
> is good for me, just as the hurdle of having to GET it is good for
> the newbies.

I'd love to "get" why some form of assignment on the fly is so evil that we
have to invent hacks to work around its lack over and over again (recipie
1.9 in the Cookbook).  The lack interacts especially badly with a language
where indentation is a mandantory part of the control structure.  :-(

Sure, you *can* work around it, but the best generic solution is ugly
(recipie 1.9), and nicer solutions are an awful waste of programming time nd
effort, and are likely to introduce subtle potential problems, IME.

For example, the reason I'm interested enough to spend time typing this was
a piece of work that included parsing some existing data files.  They were
all flat text, and easily recognized (and dissected) by regexps, but many of
them contained several different record formats (one record == one line,
though).  In some cases there were optional tail fields; in one case there
were variants because the data had accumulated over a long period of time,
and the people entering it had interpreted the instructions differently. 

So the typical processing loop is conceptually simple in a language very
similar to Python:

  for l in file.readlines():
    if (m = re1.match(l)):
      (first, second, ...) = m.groups()
      process type 1 record ...
    elif (m = re2.match(l)):
      ...
    ...

Now, I don't use indents as small as that in real code, and the processing
itself typically added a few levels.  So the straightforward translation of
the simple concept into Python would go marching steadily off towards the
right side of the screen.  Very annoying, and so unnecessary.

I guess it was a good thing I had picked up _Python Cookbook_ shortly before
this mess developed, because it pointed me towards a usable, though klugey,
way out.  As I've said, I think the generic mechanism in the recipie is
rather ugly - not that I can see any better way to solve the problem in
general.  But in this case there was a beautiful, only mildly hazardous
solution.

I wrapped the compiled regexps in a class that saved the results of applying
the regex to a string, of course.

Notationally, this is very nice.  The code now looks like

  for l in file.readlines():
    if re1.match(l):
      (first,second ...) = re1.groups()		# typically
      process type 1 record ...
    elif re2.match(l):
      ...
    ...

The ugly side of this approach is pretty well hidden here, since the pattern
of use makes it extremely unlikely that I'd ever accidentally try to use
that cached state when it was stale, or had been altered.  But I do worry a
little about leaving this to crop up years later... or I would if I weren't
confident that after this transitional phase is complete this interim
conversion code will be very, very dead.  <whistles unconvincingly>

Well, there you go.  I thought I was just going to do some ad-hoc testing of
the new news server setup, and here I am launching my first rant to c.l.py

It's a funny world.



From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Thu Nov 14 12:02:24 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:02:24 +0100
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list@python.org> <c8476101.0211140642.29540b96@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ar0kth$jfe$1@news.netpower.no>

"Arivazhagan" <arivu at qmaxtest.com> wrote in message
news:c8476101.0211140642.29540b96 at posting.google.com...
> Hi Tim
>
> I assume you're coming from C++. - Thats true.
>
> Hi
>
> My requirements here.
>
> we have three python files names a.py, b.py and c.py.
> In a.py we are calling a global function in c.py which creates objects
> of a class in c.py depending on the parameters passed. These objects
> are created in the scope of c.py. But i need to happen in a.py without
> using the module name.
> so I thought that if we inline the function call so that it expands we
> can access that object without referring to the module name.
>
> Is it possible? Is there some other methods to achieve this in python?
>
> regards
> b.arivazhagan
>

Are you thinking of something like:

# c.py
class A :
    pass

def giveMeAnA(x) :
    a = A()
    a.x = x
    return a


# a.py
import c
a1 = c.giveMeAnA(1)
print a1.x










From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 27 14:21:29 2002
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jonathan P.)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 11:21:29 -0800
Subject: Database Programming
References: <3875fcac.0211260752.60e2e457@posting.google.com> <3de3ac09$0$9474$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>
Message-ID: <f57664b9.0211271121.5342669@posting.google.com>

"francois lepoutre" <franck.lepoutre at caramail.com> wrote in message news:<3de3ac09$0$9474$79c14f64 at nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>...
>
> A personal feeling:
> - python is the way to go for sophisticated web-based database application
> (the combo we use includes apache+python+modpthon+mxodbc,
> it allows for effective  multiplatform development: win32+linux),
> ... for simpler stuff i'd expect that asp or php are leaner alternatives,
> 
> - vfp (currently in version 7-8 coming soon) still have a considerable edge
> in terms of productivity over python if you need to develop non-trivial
> data-intensive win32-only apps. Delphi shines too. Of course.
> 
> You can work it out in the opposite direction:
> 
> -build you web-based things in vfp
> (See http://www.west-wind.com/webconnection/),
> - build classical data-intensive c/s applications in python
> (See http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/index.php or even
> www.wxpython.org to
>
> Unless you prefer java (no experience there),  python is REALLY the way to
> go for
> the http production (the portal thing). It is platform-independant. A
> critical asset.
> 
> Because vfp is proprietary stuff and python syntax just plain great, we'd
> love to transfer the whole admin stuff to python-only, pyqt look promising. But > this is still unrealistic to-day.
>
> We are still significantly more productive in vfp when building traditionnal
> 2-tiers apps. 
> 
> These are personal opinions only...

Python syntactic power and clarity seems to do wonders for
productivity. I rewrote a Delphi/TMySQL app in Python/Firebird
and it took me roughly half the time. From 1 month to 2.5 weeks. 
And the resulting code was much more easily modifiable and 
maintainable. The very high level data structures are the key. 
Object Pascal is very low level and all the RAD niceties help 
very little when you're coding your main application logic.

Note that the more than half of the Python dev't time involved
the creation, from scratch, of some fairly sophisticated 
curses-based text widgets (now I know why they call it curses) 
which I can now reuse.  The Python curses API is the first Python 
API I've encountered that let me down. Every other Python API 
I've tried makes me want to do cartwheels for being so Pythonic. 
I guess that can't be helped because curses itself is a byzantine 
API.

I wouldn't want to code a GUI app in Python nor was I tempted
to because the deployment machine was a 32MB Pentium 200 and
there was no way I'm going to run XFree on it. Moreover, a
neophyte computer user found my text-based app simpler and less
intimidating than using Windows!


From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 14:01:00 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:01:00 GMT
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <mailman.1038414274.6010.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaua5qr.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Simon Brunning <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> wrote:
>  
> See <http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue83/evans.html>.

Nice article. I especially liked this quote:

    As a wide-eyed, innocent new Python programmer, you may naively
    expect that you can simply ask users for input and they will just
    give it to you....

        WARNING: Showing the preceding sentence to veteran programmers
        may cause them to collapse on the floor giggling helplessly. 

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Nov 14 15:48:17 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:48:17 -0600
Subject: Serial Port
In-Reply-To: <DAV61i0JhsgVy134IpL00004da5@hotmail.com> ("Luca Bruderer"'s
 message of "Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:32:09 +0100")
References: <DAV61i0JhsgVy134IpL00004da5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2of8rq3n2.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Luca" == Luca Bruderer <dodo_imp at hotmail.com> writes:

    Luca> Hello How can I read and send information through a serial
    Luca> port for a custom keyboard I would like to build.

You may want to try searching google for 

  python serial port

The first result that came back looks useful

http://balder.prohosting.com/ibarona/en/python/uspp/uspp_en.html

Cheers, 
John Hunter



From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 15 18:26:33 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:26:33 -0800
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <ar2vqq$c4h$1@news.hccnet.nl>
References: <mailman.1037319270.11446.python-list@python.org> <c8476101.0211150501.2950b69c@posting.google.com> <ar2vqq$c4h$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <200211152326.PAA32383@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Friday 15 November 2002 06:18, Anton Vredegoor wrote:

> def test():
>     A,B,C = Good(),Good(),Good()
>     print A
>     print B
>     print C

   Ah, but (apparently), they don't want to use assignment to create the 
A,B,C names in the module (or local) namespace.  They want to allow extending 
the namespace as a side-effect of a callable object.  This is different from 
what you have (although, totally wierd).

  It sounds like their application is bolting onto another kind of language 
that allows this, and I assume they want to preserve that style of 
programming (for whatever reason).

  Sounds funky...

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From CousinStanley at HotMail.com  Tue Nov 19 02:03:14 2002
From: CousinStanley at HotMail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:03:14 -0700
Subject: quick question
References: <20021116051220.01520.00000047@mb-bk.aol.com><mailman.1037458463.20139.python-list@python.org><arc1p1$h5q7a$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1037669366.5507.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arcnet$hakf3$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

John ...

I tried your suggestions of using the function
xreadlines() to load the file and doing the counting
via a mapped function using the same input test file ...

Results ...

    Elapsed Time :    8.90 Seconds ... Normal
    Elapsed Time :    5.39 Seconds ... Psyco
    Elapsed Time :    8.29 Seconds ... Psyco JH Map

Questions ...

    Did I implement your suggestions correctly ???


    For convenience in adding the mapped test to what I already had,
    I used a global dictionary defintion ...

    Would that have any significant affects on performace ???


    I wasn't sure whether or not the Psyco binding
    was necessary for the third pass through the script
    when the mapped function is called ???


    Since the printed output lines come out double-spaced
    in the mapped function version, where's the most
    convenient place to stick the strip() function
    without interfering ???

      Maybe when the dict is converted to a tuple list
      just before the report ???

Latest code version and test file ...
http://fastq.com/~sckitching/file_rec_IceCream.zip
[ 25 KB ]

Cousin Stanley




From thomas.heller at ion-tof.com  Thu Nov  7 03:18:35 2002
From: thomas.heller at ion-tof.com (Thomas Heller)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 09:18:35 +0100
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036637588.30844.python-list@python.org> <A9py9.2897$h%5.103801@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <isz9kd2c.fsf@ion-tof.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:

> Looks like the only portable way to use large "unsigned" constants is to
> use long("0x80000000")...
> 
> </F>

Doesn't work for me in *any* Python version I have:

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> long("0x80000000")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: invalid literal for long(): 0x80000000
>>>

long("0x80000000", 16) works starting with 2.0, but not in 1.5.2.

Thomas


From ngps at netmemetic.com  Mon Nov 11 01:47:39 2002
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 06:47:39 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqnjqb$38c$2@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Brad Hards  <bhards at bigpond.net.au>:
>
> 2. Availability of useful tools, especially libraries (affects design choices 
> based on programmer productivity). Also includes development environments.
>
> I am not familiar with Lisp, but I perceive that it has problems with 2,3,4 
> and 5.

For 2, do you have "freely available" as the underlying assumption?


> I'm not really familiar with Perl either, but I think Python is better at 5 - 
> I'm certainly amazed at the tolerance people have for questions that are 
> readily answered in a number of on-line tutorials, and in both the Python 
> books that I have (Learning Python and the Python Cookbook). In the end, the 
> friendly attitude may be the killer feature.

I don't keep stats, but I believe every now and then some old Python hand
has been overheard saying that c.l.py isn't as nice/interesting as before. 


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> * http://www.netmemetic.com



From rockboxb at webmail.co.za  Tue Nov 12 18:35:08 2002
From: rockboxb at webmail.co.za (rockbox)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:35:08 GMT
Subject: total and utter newbie
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.12.23.36.32.644986@webmail.co.za>

Hi.

I hope that this is the right group to post this problem in. If not then I
appologise.

I have decided to learn python (my 1st attempt at programming) but I am
having a slight problem.

value = input('Enter Value : ')
rate = input('Enter VAT Rate : ')
vat=(rate/100)*value
total=value+vat
print 'VAT is caluculated at ' + str(rate) + '%'
print 'The total (inc vat) = ' + str(total)
print "vat is " +str(vat)
print 'value = ' + str(value)

If I run the program and give it the values of say 100 and 15.0 everything
works fine and 15% is added to 100.
However if I enter the values 100 and 15 then the program returns a value
of 100 (the vat variable is set to 0).

I know that I must be missing something simple but I can not see what.
Please help.

Thanks in advance


From imbosol at vt.edu  Fri Nov 15 21:54:42 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:54:42 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <aqunac$qj$4@wheel2.two14.net> <aquvr6$qrb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <ar3s1l$q9$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <ar4c70$4j5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

maney at pobox.com wrote:
> Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote:
>> Whoa--what about all that passing-state-around stuff you mentioned in
>> another message?
> 
> I'm trying to imagine what I described that has anything to do with this
> next bit, and I keep failing.

You mentioned the problems with passing a lot of parameters into a
function when I said I liked to factor the set-and-test chain into its
own function so I could use return to break out of it.  At least,
that's how I understood it, and it is a drawback to refactoring (or it
was before nested scopes came to pass).

But, if you write a function so that you do a lot of things before the
if condition (which you said you could do when I said an assignment
operator didn't cover the cases where you had a lot of things to do
before the if operator), you would have the same problem.


>> What if you have more than one value to assign (that would need to be used
>> inside the if clause)?  Sorry, but I must disagree again.  It's an
>> incomplete solution.
> 
> I never said it was a contender in the "generality for the sake of
> generality" sweepstakes... but then, in light of OP's question and my own
> feelings about Python and Lisp and the other languages mentioned, I wonder
> if that (gftsog) might not be an important part of the answer to his
> question.

Well, my feelings about generality are this: if you implement a
partial solution, that leaves the possibility that you might implement
a full solution someday, in which case the partial solution you put in
before is now redundant.  But once you've put something in, you can't
take it out without breaking backwards-compatibility, so you're stuck
with it.

I.e., it's generality for the sake of not having more than one way to
do it.  Which, of course, is The Python Way(tm).


-- 
CARL BANKS


From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Tue Nov 12 19:43:06 2002
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:43:06 +0800
Subject: Optimisation problem
Message-ID: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F01ADCF@mexper1.maptek.net.au>

Thanks Skip!

I am writing a whole bunch of classes for working with OpenGL so speed
is pretty important.

I had a look at pscyco and it seems very interesting, however at this
stage the memory bloat is unacceptable. I also tried out weave, which I
think is an *extremely* useful tool, however I am wondering if the extra
overhead needed to call a weaved (woven?) function is worth the trouble
for my small Quaternion class!

Thanks for the tips, I wasn't aware of the extra overhead involved in
attribute references...


Regards,

SimonW.



From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 27 14:37:16 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:37:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: *args and **kwargs
References: <uLUE9.5581$kz4.355569@news2.west.cox.net> <87d6orq0oz.fsf@uiuc.edu> <_S7F9.14648$kz4.657484@news2.west.cox.net> <slrnauah8l.199.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <uua74vslp5f021@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaual6k.20i.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:27:43 -0500, John Roth napisa?(a): 
> The fact that the function definition contains either * or ** has
> nothing to do with how you call it.
By saying this I thought about that, when you're using ** notation
you need to call your function like this:

function(a="b",b="c",c="d")

In second of my examples, you can call a function by passing
a dictionary to it as is:

second({"a":"b", "b":"c", "c":"d"})

See that visual difference? I was talking just about that.

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From cliechti at gmx.net  Fri Nov 15 17:07:03 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 00:07:03 +0200
Subject: read n bytes from a binary file
References: <pan.2002.11.15.17.31.32.977054.25911@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92C81676ADB4cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Rajarshi Guha <rajarshi at presidency.com> wrote in 
news:pan.2002.11.15.17.31.32.977054.25911 at presidency.com:
> How can I read N bytes from  a file opened in binary mode.

simply f.read(N)

> Basically I'm
> trying to check that a PDF file is indeed a PDF file


on a unixish system? consider the "file" command

chris
-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 18 06:19:44 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:19:44 GMT
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net> <3DD8C332.6020709@Linux.ie>
Message-ID: <k14C9.22988$744.841306@news1.tin.it>

Padraig Brady wrote:

> Pierre Rouleau wrote:
>> What's the most efficient way to merge two lists inside a single one
>> with the resulting list having only one instance of each element (ie not
>> having two elements with the same value)?
>> 
>> The order of the elements is not a criteria for the selection of the
>> algorithm.
> 
> This is relevant I think:
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0218.html

Unfortunately inapplicable due to the following detail noted at the end:

"""
Both types of set require that their elements are
    immutable, hashable objects.
"""

Pierre's key issue is that he wants to be able to handle items of ANY type 
-- presumably any type comparable for equality, otherwise 'the same value'
makes no sense, but definitely can't accept restriction to immutable,
hashable objects.

One solution that comes to mind at once would be (untested):

class genericset:

    def __init__(self):
        self.dict = {}
        self.lookaside = []

    def add(self, item):
        try:
            self.dict[item] = 1
        except TypeError:
            if item not in self.lookaside:
                self.lookaside.append(item)

    def __contains__(self, item):
        try:
            return item in self.dict
        except TypeError:
            return item in self.lookaside


This doesn't deal with the further issue of extracting items in a 
deterministic order -- any order, as long as it can be guaranteed
that the order will always be the same for any given set of items
on whatever computer this code is run.  But that's not hard to fix,
it suffices to add an arbitrary index instead of the fixed '1' as
the contents of self.dict and do some sorting at extraction time
(an auxiliary index-to-item dict might make extraction faster):

class genericsequenceableset:

    def __init__(self):
        self.dict = {}
        self.lookaside = []
        self.ninserts = 0

    def add(self, item):
        self.ninserts += 1
        try:
            self.dict[item] = self.ninserts
        except TypeError:
            if item not in self.lookaside:
                self.lookaside.append(item)

    def __contains__(self, item):
        try:
            return item in self.dict
        except TypeError:
            return item in self.lookaside

    def extractall(self):
        aux = [ (v, k) for k, v in self.dict.items() ]
        aux.sort()
        return [ k for v, k in aux ] + self.lookaside


Alex



From jslm at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 17 14:06:57 2002
From: jslm at earthlink.net (joshua solomon)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:06:57 GMT
Subject: wxPython question
Message-ID: <lNRB9.2743$fY3.294687@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hi, I hope this is the right place for asking this question. I am running
Python 2.2.2 on Windows 2000
Basically I have a loop within the OnPaint handler which I am using for
bouncing a ball around on a screen. The loop works fine and I have no
problems with that. However my next step is to break out of the loop as soon
as someone presses a key or left clicks the mouse. For this I guess I need
to somehow query the message loop, retrieve any pending events, check to see
if a mouse was clicked and then break out of the loop if it was clicked. My
question is how can I query the message loop and retrieve the necesary
object. If I don't do this, the keypress or mouse click handlers would be
called only after the loop terminates. This has me completely stumped. Is
there a better way to handle this? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance. The loop and the OnPaint handler appears below although I
don't suppose that is important.

def OnPaint(self,event):
        MyDC=wxPaintDC(self)

        MyPen=wxPen('GREEN',1,wxSOLID)
        MyBrush=wxBLUE_BRUSH

        MyDC.BeginDrawing()
        MyDC.SetPen(MyPen)
        MyDC.SetBrush(MyBrush)
        if not self.x and not self.y:
            self.x=40
            self.y=40
        MyDC.DrawCircle(self.x,self.y,15)
        self.BounceBall(MyDC)
        MyDC.EndDrawing()

def BounceBall(self,dc):
        import time
        MyPen1=wxPen('GREEN',1,wxSOLID)
        MyBrush1=wxBLUE_BRUSH
        dc.SetPen(MyPen1)
        dc.SetBrush(MyBrush1)

        for y in range(1,100):
            dc.SetLogicalFunction(wxCLEAR)
            dc.DrawCircle(self.x,self.y,15)
            self.x+=5
            self.y+=5
            dc.SetLogicalFunction(wxCOPY)
            dc.DrawCircle(self.x,self.y,15)
            t1=time.clock()
            while 1:
                delt=time.clock()-t1
                if delt >=0.1:
                    break




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Nov  1 04:48:38 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 01 Nov 2002 10:48:38 +0100
Subject: Combining Python/Tk & Tcl/Tk
References: <3dc23e70@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <j4znstlix5.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Scott Smedley <scott at aao.gov.au> writes:

> Is it possible to integrate/embed Python/Tk with Tcl/Tk?

Most certainly. Python/Tk is *already* integrated with Tcl/Tk. There
is a complete Tcl running inside _tkinter.

If you have a _tkinter.tkapp object, just invoke .call on it to
execute arbitrary Tcl code.

Regards,
Martin


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov 23 01:21:47 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:21:47 -0800
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <TUrD9.58023$Yw.2622115@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DDF1E7B.CCE2BCD3@alcyone.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Indeed, you can sort a list containing, say, a None, a string, an
> integer and a float -- but if you add to the list a fifth element
> that is a complex, POOF, you can't sort it any more.  That didn't
> use to be so, if I recall correctly, in Python 1.5.2, but has
> been that way for quite a while now.  Why comparing string 'plak'
> with the number 23 is OK, but comparing it with 23j isn't, kind
> of escapes me -- but apparently property (2) was deemed less
> desirable than the ability to forbid e.g. comparing 23j with 42j.
> To the point of changing Python's previous behavior, no less:-(.

Well, it was obviously done for mathematical reasons -- there is
explicitly no ordering defined for complex numbers.  In the light of
Python's inclination to allow comparison of arbitrary, heterogeneous
types, it certainly does have the feel of a wart, despite its
mathematical correctness.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The little I know, I owe to my ignorance.
\__/ Sacha Guitry
    Bosskey.net: Counter-Strike / http://www.bosskey.net/cs/
 A personal guide to Counter-Strike.


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov  5 02:37:11 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 07:37:11 GMT
Subject: More about simple question
References: <mailman.1036473127.22853.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aq7sf7$ebc$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 4 Nov 2002 21:11:52 -0800 (PST), xinghua shi <csshi99 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>--0-1493159574-1036473112=:21756
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>>
>> import sys,os,string 
>> 
>> pid = os.getpid() 
>> 
>> filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid) 
>> 
>> print filename 
>>
>> ^^^^^^^^^^Name error: name "filename" is not defined. 
>> 
>
>Actually, I have a file named "ld.stat.py" which is: 
>def main():
>
>import sys,os,string 
>pid = os.getpid()  
>filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid) 
>print filename 
>
>And then I typed:
>
>python ld.stat.py
>
>And I use python2.2. Besides, if I want to run the file "ld.stat.py" by typing "ld.stat" directly, how to do with this? Thanks so much for your help. :)
>

Please post verbatim code in a way that preserves indentation, which is probably
your problem. If you don't know how, say so and don't just ignore advice. Notice:

This is what you claimed to have:

[23:22] C:\pywk\junk>cat ld.stat.py
======================================
def main():

import sys,os,string
pid = os.getpid()
filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid)
print filename
======================================

This is how you claimed to have run it:

======================================
[23:22] C:\pywk\junk>python ld.stat.py
  File "ld.stat.py", line 3
    import sys,os,string
         ^
IndentationError: expected an indented block
======================================
but you don't mention getting that error, so we correct
part of the indentation, to get the error you did claim
to get:

[23:22] C:\pywk\junk>cat ld.stat.py
======================================
def main():
    import sys,os,string
    pid = os.getpid()
    filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid)
print filename
======================================

and we run it:
======================================
[23:23] C:\pywk\junk>python ld.stat.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "ld.stat.py", line 5, in ?
    print filename
NameError: name 'filename' is not defined
======================================
Well, that's because main was defined, and filename
was local inside main, and the print filename is outside,
so it can't see inside the main function.

So correct the indentation:

[23:23] C:\pywk\junk>cat ld.stat.py
======================================
def main():
    import sys,os,string
    pid = os.getpid()
    filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid)
    print filename
======================================

and run it:
======================================
[23:23] C:\pywk\junk>python ld.stat.py

======================================
Nothin came back. That's because all we did
was define main, we never called it. So more changes.

[23:23] C:\pywk\junk>cat ld.stat.py
======================================
def main():
    import sys,os,string
    pid = os.getpid()
    filename = ".ld.mon." + str(pid)
    print filename

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()
======================================

and we run that:
======================================
[23:24] C:\pywk\junk>python ld.stat.py
.ld.mon.207

======================================
And there you are.

You did not post anything to make it clear what
you were doing. So my advice is to learn to
post verbatim logs of the interactive attempts
you make, otherwise people will think you want
others to do more work guessing than you are
willing to do posting your question, and people
are going to lose interest in responding to your posts.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From skodela at btopenworld.com  Sat Nov  9 04:53:58 2002
From: skodela at btopenworld.com (Sreekant Kodela)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 09:53:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Web based interface
References: <2027692.1036809220@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <aqilvi$b3k$2@sparta.btinternet.com>

Hi there

I have made a few of these sites and used postgresql for one and 
mainly bsddb module for others.

If you are interested give me a shout and I will mail you one of the sites
with scripts and html needed for you to try out.

regards
sreekant
sreekant_kodela NOSPAM-PLEASE at yahoo.com


Tetsuo wrote:

> 
> I'm a n00b at programming of any kind. I only made one working program
> in my life, it created a temperature conversion table, I got guidance
> from my mom (who has coded for 25 years, although not in Python or any
> scripting language), and I have thoroughly forgotten whatever I learned
> from reading Mr. van Rossum's tutorial in August. Well, I sorta remember
> something... But despite all this, I have a big dream. It requires a
> database and a Web interface. It's hard to explain, but it's like a
> message board. I found a database (MySQL), a graphic interface for it
> (MySQLGUI), a module (MySQLdb), and they all even actually work. I also,
> after some struggle, found a magazine article that explained how to
> connect Python to MySQL. But I don't even know where to look to find out
> how to create dynamic Web pages with information from a database, read
> forms, and whatever else a message board could need.
> 
> Hail Lord Akira.
> 
> P.S. MySQLdb's doc said it's only supported on Linux. Where can I get
>      something for Win2K? And documentation for it, too?
> 
> --
> Posted via http://dbforums.com



From costanza at web.de  Sun Nov 24 20:41:24 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:41:24 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <arrh93$hkm$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <yfshee6bjwd.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <arrtf6$b3j$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <arrv43$ds3$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Pascal Costanza wrote:
> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> 
>> Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> writes:
>>
>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>
>>>> python: CL: x = list[index] (elt arrayOrList index)
>>>
>>>
>>>> x = hash[key]                     (gethash key  hash) ;; *why* this 
>>>> arg-order?
>>>> x = myType[indexOrKey]            ; no generalized item access
>>>>                                                                                   
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [etc.]
>>>
>>> Unified access is always a bit problematic. You should not access a 
>>> list  (in Common Lisp) by index because the list must always be 
>>> traversed up to the index on each access. (As far as I understand, 
>>> what Python calls 
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course you usually don't but then I can't see why this is an argument
>> against unified access (I don't want to abolish car and cdr and the 
>> writing of
>> nice recursive functions that manipulate lists with them).
> 
> 
> My guess is that the CL designers wanted us to make conscious decisions 
> in this regard, so they opted for "non-unified" access by default. But I 
> admit that I am not sure about what's the best option here and I see 
> that you have some points.

Some more considerations can be found at 
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=sfwvgcbct4x.fsf%40shell01.TheWorld.com


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From stephen at mochamail.com  Mon Nov 18 15:57:10 2002
From: stephen at mochamail.com (Stephen Aichele)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:57:10 -0800
Subject: installing mysqldb module in os x
Message-ID: <410-2200211118205710562@mochamail.com>

Howdy.

I've installed mySQL v.3.23.52 on a system running mac os x 10.2, &
python 2.2.   

I'm now trying to install the python module for interfacing with
mysql (mysqldb), but on 'python setup.py build', I keep getting the
following error:

'can't locate file for: lmysqlclient-r'  ...  Before I go commenting
out lines in the setup file (I'm assuming that I actually DO have the
threadsafe libraries installed), I wanted to check if anyone else has
run into (and solved) this problem.

thanks!

- Stephen




From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov  9 02:32:29 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 07:32:29 GMT
Subject: Questions about tuple?
References: <mailman.1036816332.13488.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hS2z9.8388$Bs5.286152@news1.tin.it>

Mindy wrote:
   ...
> In this example, actually what I want is to get
> 1,2,3,4,5 seperately from (1,2,3,4,5) and put them
> into five different lists, say, list1 =
> [1],list2=[2],list3=[3],list4=[4],list5=[5].
> 
> Is there any simply way to "split" a tuple? Thanks!

a, b, c, d, e = thetuple

will 'split' the tuple as you appear to request: i.e.,
just assign the tuple (which must have exactly five
items) to a target composed of five names.

When you get to as many as five things, this is not
a common tack; rather than keeping five separate list
variables, one would normally keep a list of five lists
and work by looping, e.g.:

listoflists = [ [] for i in range(5) ]

and then

for i in range(5):
    listoflists[i].append(thetuple[i])

but that's a choice of practicality and flexibility; if
you prefer to write things out five times, Python most
assuredly doesn't impede you from doing that.


Alex



From anthony at interlink.com.au  Wed Nov 20 20:15:38 2002
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:15:38 +1100
Subject: DNS server in python 
In-Reply-To: <200211211106.44776.bhards@bigpond.net.au> 
Message-ID: <200211210115.gAL1Fc602440@localhost.localdomain>

 
> However while this is being sorted out, I'd like a portable, scripted version
> Python seems right :)
> 
> So I'm looking for a DNS server in python, if it is already written. I've done 
> some searching on freshmeat.net and sourceforge, and also a bit of Googling, 
> but the only thing that looked like it might be of use was dynDNS, 
> http://freshmeat.net/projects/dyndns/?topic_id=250
> However the link is broken. Grrr.

Have a look at pydns.sf.net - there's most of the guts needed to 
do a DNS server. (I've built a couple of little toy ones for tiny
applications using it).

I've also been interested in the zeroconf stuff, and confirmed that 
I can handle the multicast DNS stuff (I've done multicast stuff in 
the past in python - I did a simple SDR-type client years ago).

Anthony



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Nov  7 17:54:30 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:54:30 -0500
Subject: Question about print format?
References: <20021107223614.57256.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3DCAEF26.1040101@rogers.com>

If I understand correctly what you want (a standard tab-delimited output 
file), your problem is with the format you defined:
    form = """
    %(index)d\t\t
    %(symbol)s\t\t\t\t
    %(binding_file)s\t\t\t\t\t
    %(to_file)s\t\t\t\t\n
    """
You probably wanted:
    form = 
"""%(index)d\t\t%(symbol)s\t\t\t\t%(binding_file)s\t\t\t\t\t%(to_file)s\t\t\t\t\n"""
Though I have no idea why you want so _many_ tabs between items.  

If what you really wanted was to create a classic "report" (static 
formatted output for consumption by humans), you shouldn't be using tabs 
at all.  Look at using the string methods "center", "ljust" and "rjust", 
which will give you your string values with space-padding to be exactly 
a given length.

HTH,
Mike

If what you were looking for was to create a space-aligned format

Mindy wrote:

>Actually, I want to get a neat list of information
>about index,sybol,binding_file,to_file (which are 4
>columns). The attachment is my program and the output
>I want and I got. Could someone help me with this
>output format stuff?
>
>Thanks very much!
>
>
>
>
>
>=====
>Cheers
>-Mindy
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 20 14:56:14 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 20:56:14 +0100
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <m3r8dg8wgp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <d6p035ci.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <m3smxw582p.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> What's the difference? Only less code?

Yes; I find it easier to read, too.

Regards,
Martin


From josiah7 at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 23 00:00:22 2002
From: josiah7 at hotmail.com (Josiah)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 21:00:22 -0800
Subject: Simple Checkbutton Question? Please....
Message-ID: <b4d1dd0c.0211222100.26876625@posting.google.com>

What am I doing wrong in this sample? When I press the "status"
button, the printout shows that "self.var.get()" returns a "0" weather
the box is checked or not! Help please.
Thanks!
josiah


#######################################################################
from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()

class App:

    def __init__(self, master):  

        frame = Frame(master) 
        frame.grid()
              
        self.var = IntVar() 
        self.CButton = Checkbutton(frame,
text="check",variable=self.var)
        self.CButton.select()
        self.CButton.grid()

        self.buttonGo = Button(frame, text= "status", command=self.go)
        self.buttonGo.grid()

    def go(self):
        print self.var.get() 

app = App(root)
root.mainloop()
root.quit
#######################################################################


From tudisco at sexmagnet.com  Mon Nov  4 07:33:33 2002
From: tudisco at sexmagnet.com (Jason Tudisco)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 04:33:33 -0800
Subject: Need simple algorithm for newbie
Message-ID: <d1a9617c.0211040433.1eddb118@posting.google.com>

I have a list of domains... Some of the domain names in the list look
like this:

groups.goodle.com

The information I want is just google.com. I need to know the best way
to do this.. for .com .net .org only.. and to strip the rest of the
garbage.. like in this case.. get rid of groups in groups.google.com

I need to parse though a huge list so it has to be optimized algorithm

No need to write complete code.. Just get me in the right direccion..
Still learning python and I am not sure what would be the fastest way
to go about it..


From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov 27 05:33:14 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:33:14 GMT
Subject: How to generate libpython2.2.so ?
References: <3DE39BD2.5070700@envision.co.il> <mailman.1038339276.11389.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3vg2jqpax.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at gmx.de> writes:

> AFAIK it's not possible with an unpatched Python 2.2.x. With Python
> 2.3-CVS, however, building the shared library is the default.

I thought you still had to pass --enable-shared to configure?  I think
making building a .so the default would get you a visit from a certain
German...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  If you don't use emacs, you're a pathetic, mewling, masochistic
  weakling and I can't be bothered to convert you.    -- Ron Echeverri


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Tue Nov 26 21:58:55 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:58:55 +1300
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>        <mailman.1037996971.11725.python-list@python.org>        <cDyD9.43308$744.1553979@news1.tin.it>        <200211222342.PAA10255@mail.arc.nasa.gov> <mailman.1038010832.25373.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE434EF.5030003@something.invalid>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
 >

>     xlist = []
>     for -whatever-:
>         xlist.append(big_hairy_calc)
>     xMax = max(xlist)


Or if you don't want to store the whole list,

   def g():
     for -whatever-:
       yield big_hairy_calc

   xmax = max(g())

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 28 07:28:51 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:28:51 GMT
Subject: Screen Capture
References: <slrnauc1mf.gcu.munja@sipa.kav.vest.hr>
Message-ID: <7h365uhq3ut.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Ivica Munitic <munja at sipa.kav.vest.hr> writes:

> Hello guys!!
> 
> How can I get a screen capture within a python program ?
> What module should i install ?

This is going to be platform dependent.  Under X, shelling out to
ImageMagick's `import' program seems an easy option.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  ARTHUR:  Ford, you're turning into a penguin, stop it.
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 2


From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 27 13:33:46 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:33:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: More pythonic way to change an element of a tuple?
References: <as314e$c4u$2@naig.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnauahfi.199.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:58:44 -0800, Richard Muller napisa?(a):
> I frequently have to change a single element of a tuple, and I wind up 
> doing something like this:
> 
> tmp = list(data_in_tuple)
> tmp[item] += 1
> data_in_tuple = tuple(tmp)
> 
> Is there a more beautiful way of doing this? 
You should use lists instead. When I'm seeing a tuple in someones else
code I'm assuming, that values in tuples are constants. It isn't nice
practise to change their values.

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Fri Nov 22 20:22:27 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:22:27 -0800
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <8ef9bea6.0211201119.2f846d0c@posting.google.com> <JxqdnQqI-cZFnEGgXTWcqA@comcast.com> <8ef9bea6.0211220601.4c92d43e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j8lmra.5g4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Hung Jung Lu fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 22 November 2002 
06:01 am:

> 
> Let me ask you, just in case you totally missed the point. Is it
> possible for a program to severely hit the harddrive without the
> programmer writing any code on file operation?
>
        Recursive structure allocation with no limit check could fill 
available RAM, then overflow to swap space. {Especially under Windows 
<G>}

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From mwh at python.net  Fri Nov 15 08:50:28 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:50:28 GMT
Subject: property problems
References: <46a101c28bb2$6f2d1420$7635bcc3@blueyonder.net> <1wOA9.85898$MGm1.48783@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <LXOA9.8568$744.290820@news1.tin.it> <eab1ra.0v1.ln@anto.cuni.lan>
Message-ID: <7h3ptt7vtbs.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Antonio Cuni <TOGLIMIcuni at programmazione.it> writes:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > What really determines if x is a new-style class is x's metaclass,
> > and rather than inheriting it from x's base (which is the normal
> > way to do it) you may alternatively choose to assert it explicitly
> > by a __metaclass__ attribute in class scope (or a global variable
> > __metaclass__ in module scope if x has no bases).  x is new-style
> > iff x's metaclass is the built-in type object named 'type'.
>  
> uhm... type inherit from object, but object's metaclass is type: isn't 
> there a recursion problem?

Sort of, but the first pieces are put together in a way different from
the rest of the system.  I think Smalltalk has a similar "problem".
In Python's case I guess you could say that type and object are
created by an "outside force" (C code) that knows the eventual
appearance of each object.

But there were (are?) bugs along these lines in Python; for a while
there were things you could do that would access bits of the system
before they were setup properly and segfault.  It's hard to be certain
that all of these are gone.

> ciao Anto
> PS & OT: what's the english for "circolo vizioso"?

Vicious circle?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
 "Well, the old ones go Mmmmmbbbbzzzzttteeeeeep as they start up and
  the new ones go whupwhupwhupwhooopwhooooopwhooooooommmmmmmmmm."
                         -- Graham Reed explains subway engines on asr


From gumuz at looze.net  Mon Nov 18 19:00:11 2002
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:00:11 GMT
Subject: Pickle problem
Message-ID: <fafC9.11796$D02.511999@castor.casema.net>

Hi all,

i have a pickle problem, can;t figure it out :(

i have a class called 'site'
site has a root 'folder' class
a folder class can contain 'pages' and other 'folder', ike a sort of tree.

now i have the open and save function done like this:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
def Save(self, Filename):
        outFile = open(Filename,'w')
        pickle.dump(self,outFile)
        outFile.close()

    def Open(self, Filename):
        inFile = open(Filename)
        self = pickle.load(inFile)
        inFile.close()
        print str(self.Root.Pages)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

now i get the following error on the 'pickle.load' function:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "E:\Development\Projects\Python\pyBlogg\pyBlogg.py", line 46, in Open
    self = pickle.load(inFile)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 981, in load
    return Unpickler(file).load()
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 596, in load
    dispatch[key](self)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 766, in load_inst
    klass = self.find_class(module, name)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 823, in find_class
    klass = getattr(mod, name)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Site'


and yes, my module _does_ have a Site -class.


please advice,
thankyou,

guyon




From usenet at jasoegaard.dk  Sun Nov 10 11:23:23 2002
From: usenet at jasoegaard.dk (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jens_Axel_S=F8gaard?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:23:23 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <ff133276.0211091535.47871cf2@posting.google.com> <aqkdoq$db6$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3dce8869$0$27077$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> It's exactly BECAUSE every newcomer longs for some weird set of feechurs 
> that are better done without, that a language that lets such newcomers add 
> all the weird things, changing the language itself and turning it from a 
> (hopefully) well-designed whole to a hodge-podge, is not going to be 
> popular with the masses.  Some brilliant individuals -- a tiny minority -- 
> are no doubt going to use such power wonderfully well, building several 
> different complex, specialized languages.  The rest of us, the vast 
> majority of the human race, is BY FAR best served by having to use one 
> well-designed language rather than by letting each make up their own.

Theoretically this could be true. In practice everybody follows the 
conventions.



From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Fri Nov 15 18:51:54 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:51:54 GMT
Subject: Permutations algoritm?
References: <mailman.1037397424.5900.python-list@python.org> <s31btuoi6e31h03g6mv0nmqprqp0csk6pn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <lr1btu4r907gkf2p2lsp1vi3avevhudabf@4ax.com>

Oh, I just re-read your question.
You will just want to use _subsets_ofsize_help(n,m)

Manuel

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:40:44 GMT, Manuel M. Garcia
<mgarcia at cole-switches.com> wrote:
(edit)
>def _subsets_ofsize_help(n, m):
>    if m == 0:
>        return [ [] ]
>    elif n == 0:
>        return []
>    elif m == 1:
>        return [ [i] for i in range(n) ]
>    else:
>        s0 = _subsets_ofsize_help(n-1,m)
>        s1 = _subsets_ofsize_help(n-1,m-1)
>        for i in range(len(s1)):
>            s1[i].append(n-1)
>        s0.extend(s1)
>        return s0


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Nov  6 13:41:52 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:41:52 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <20021106184401.X30315@prim.han.de>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
 <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net>
 <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com>
 <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com>
 <mailman.1036601108.23735.python-list@python.org>
 <sA6q3WAW5Uy9Ew4K@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <20021106184401.X30315@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <biDHvIAwJWy9Ewd8@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In message <20021106184401.X30315 at prim.han.de>, holger krekel
<pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes
.....
>I am not sure i understand this.  Why does python need to enter
>restricted mode?  
>
>And doesn't PSYCO also do JIT-alike compiling?  That's at least how
>i understood Armin.  As he also suggests to rewrite the python-core
>in python to make it faster (with psyco) maybe this could help
>with an c#-interpreter?  
>
>wildly-guessing'ly yours,
>
>    holger
>
I think that python allows any reference to change type dynamically.

I don't think C# allows this, but am no expert. The implication is that
C# can be very much more agressive in its JIT compilation. When it sees
x*y for x and y known ints it can compile an integer multiply. Python
only sees x*y and without the type information it is forced to do type
lookup at run time.

As you point out psyco can do the compilation, but only into the generic
multiply (unless psyco can be hinted in some way).

The pyrex project goes further and allows C style typing which makes it
very fast, but it isn't JIT.
-- 
Robin Becker



From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 27 23:41:23 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:41:23 +1300
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE59E73.4040908@something.invalid>

Mikael Olofsson wrote:

>   Is there an obvous way to have f (still defined in A) manipulate
>   objects in B when executed in B?


Don't know whether it counts as "obvious", but I
think there is a way (short of using exec):

   import new
   g = new.function(f.func_code, B.__dict__)

This creates a new function g which has the
same code as f but a different global namespace.

(You can't just change f.func_globals directly
because it's a read-only attribute, unfortunately.)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From nospam at bigfoot.com  Wed Nov 13 09:52:20 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:52:20 +0100
Subject: Unicode in JSP
References: <2041930.1037194073@dbforums.com> <2041931.1037194513@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <aqtnve$1kts$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Another mistake...

You didn't post your problem in the appropriate newsgroup !
Good luck !

--Gilles

"bandekap" <member at dbforums.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:
2041931.1037194513 at dbforums.com...
>
> Mistake in last query:
>
> My oracle database for three japanese characters it is storing data in
> "&#12373; &#12384; &#12431;" instead of those japanese characters. Does
> this data in unicode format?
> What neccesary changes i need to do?
>
> --
> Posted via http://dbforums.com




From hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com  Fri Nov  8 10:13:32 2002
From: hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:13:32 GMT
Subject: commands.getoutput from a cgi?
Message-ID: <xqxheesxffn.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

We need to run a shell script and get results, all from inside a cgi.
This works standalone (not in the web server).  It works with python
(2.2) from a cgi running from apache on Linux.  It does not work in
python (2.1) on iPlanet on AIX.

The shell command is of the form:
  "echo %s | another_script" % mydata

In the simplest case we are using:
  "echo hello | sort"

The error is:
  ....commands.py", line 55, in getstatusoutput sts = pipe.close()
  IOError: [Errno 10] No child process
 
We've also tried popen, setting the child_stdin to the data in the
echo and then running the script.  Same error.

Anything obvious?

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 21 20:46:57 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:46:57 -0800
Subject: ANN: empy 2.2 -- A templating system for Python
Message-ID: <3DDD8C91.D69886AE@alcyone.com>

Summary

    A templating system for Python.


Overview

    empy is a system for embedding Python expressions and statements
    in template text; it takes an empy source file, processes it, and
    produces output.  This is accomplished via expansions, which are
    special signals to the empy system and are set off by a special
    prefix (by default the at sign, '@').  empy can expand arbitrary
    Python expressions and statements in this way, as well as a
    variety of special forms.  Textual data not explicitly delimited
    in this way is sent unaffected to the output, allowing Python to
    be used in effect as a markup language.  Also supported are "hook"
    callbacks, recording and playback via diversions, and dynamic,
    chainable filters.  The system is highly configurable via command
    line options and embedded commands.

    Expressions are embedded in text with the '@(...)' notation;
    variations include conditional expressions with '@(...?...:...)'
    and the ability to handle thrown exceptions with '@(...$...)'.  As
    a shortcut, simple variables and expressions can be abbreviated as
    '@variable', '@object.attribute', '@function(arguments)',
    '@sequence[index]', and combinations.  Full-fledged statements
    are embedded with '@{...}'.  Forms of conditional, repeated, and
    recallable expansion are available via '@[...]'.  A '@' followed
    by a whitespace character (including a newline) expands to
    nothing, allowing string concatenations and line continuations.
    Comments are indicated with '@#' and consume the rest of the line,
    up to and including the trailing newline.  '@%' indicate
    "significators," which are special forms of variable assignment
    intended to specify per-file identification information in a
    format which is easy to parse externally.  Escape sequences
    analogous to those in C can be specified with '@\...', and finally
    a '@@' sequence expands to a single literal at sign.


Getting the software

    The current version of empy is 2.2.

    The latest version of the software is available in a tarball here:
    http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/empy-latest.tar.gz.

    The official URL for this Web site is
    http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/.


Requirements

    empy should work with any version of Python from 1.5.x onward.
    The test script is intended to run on UNIX-like systems with a
    Bourne shell.


License

    This code is released under the GPL.

	...


Release history [since 2.1]

    - 2.2; 2002 Nov 21.  Switched to -V option for version
      information; 'empy.createDiversion' for creating initially empty
      diversion; direct access to diversion objects with
      'empy.retrieveDiversion'; environment variable support; removed
      --raw (used --raw-errors instead) long argument; added
      quaternary escape code (well, why not).

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If a thing is worth doing, then it is worth doing badly.
\__/ G.K. Chesterton
    REALpolitik / http://www.realpolitik.com/
 Get your own customized newsfeed online in realtime ... for free!


From lists at battleface.com  Tue Nov 19 09:45:38 2002
From: lists at battleface.com (Alexander Sendzimir)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:45:38 GMT
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.19.13.54.54.356611@battleface.com>

# # # SOLUTION BASED ON PREVIOUS POSTS # # #


# For consistency, I've written all the notes as Python comments. So
# anything that's not a comment is code. The original problem is to
# match multiple regular expressions to a single line until one
# regular expression matches. The first solution was a brute force
# approach which entailed a (possibly long) series of match-if-break
# statements. See previous posts in this thread for example. After
# some consultation and experimentation, I've devised the following
# two solutions based on various input from Trent Mick and John
# Hunter. Thanks to both of them.

# Both solutions are of the same design. The second solution is an
# optimization if there are many regular expressions to match with
# corresponding actions to be taken. It uses a dictionary linking
# names to actions.

# The basic design is a list of tuples of the form (name, regex) where
# name is an arbitrary string identifying the regular expression
# regex. In the inner for-loop, the regular expression is matched to
# the current input line. If the match succeeds, then the match object
# (mo) is defined and the if-statement is true and falls through to
# the next if-statement. The second solution replaces this last
# if-statement with a dictionary lookup so that the 'do something'
# comment is replaced with a call to a single handler.

#
#   F I R S T   S O L U T I O N
#

regexs = [
    ( 'regex_id1', sre.compile( r'regex1' ) ),
    ( 'regex_id2', sre.compile( r'regex2' ) ),
    ( 'regex_id3', sre.compile( r'regex3' ) ),
	.
	.
	.
    ( 'regex_idN', sre.compile( r'regexN' ) ) ]


for line in lines :
	for regex in regexs :
		mo = regex[1].match( line )
		if mo :
			if ( 'regex_id1' == regex[0] ) :
				# do something
				break
			elif ( 'regex_id2' == regex[0] ) :
				# do something
				break
			elif ( 'regex_id3' == regex[0] ) :
				# do something
				break
			.
			.
			.
			elif ( 'regex_idN' == regex[0] ) :
				# do something
		else :
			pass


#
#   S E C O N D   S O L U T I O N
#

#
# define the handlers
#

def handler_id1 :
	pass

def handler_id2 :
	pass

def handler_id3 :
	pass

.
.
.

def handler_idN :
	pass


regexs = [
    ( 'regex_id1', sre.compile( r'regex1' ) ),
    ( 'regex_id2', sre.compile( r'regex2' ) ),
    ( 'regex_id3', sre.compile( r'regex3' ) ),
	.
	.
	.
    ( 'regex_idN', sre.compile( r'regexN' ) ) ]


#
# define the dictionary of ids --> handlers
#

regex_actions = {
	'regex_id1' : handler_id1,
	'regex_id2' : handler_id2,
	'regex_id3' : handler_id3,
	.
	.
	.
	'regex_idN' : handler_idN }


for line in lines :
	for regex in regexs :
		mo = regex[1].match( line )
		if mo :
			regex_actions[ regex[0] ]( optional_arguments );
		else :
			pass


# All this done and said, I wonder if it would be useful to have the
# capacity to assign a delegate method to a regular expression object?
# If the expression matches, then the delegate is called. If no
# delegate is assigned, then, of course, no action is taken which is
# the usual behavior.



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 18 18:43:47 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:43:47 GMT
Subject: Fast construction of Python list from large C array of int's -  Extension Module
References: <mailman.1037647226.1409.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TWeC9.26321$744.958668@news1.tin.it>

quadric at primenet.com wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm a bit of a Python newbie and I've written a C extension module. One
> of  the functions must return a Python list whose source is a large (5000
> -
> 6000) C array of integers.  I need a fast way
> of constructing the Python list.  I was planning on something like:
> 
> PyObject * CreateListFromArray( int * array , int array_length)
> {
> PyObject * list = PyList_New( array_length);
> 
> for int i = 0 ; i < array_length ; i++ )
>   {
> PyList_SetItem( list , i , Py_LongFromLong( (long) array[i] )  );
> }
> 
>   return list;
> }
> 
> 
> Is this the fastest way to do this?

I can't think of a faster one, at least not offhand.  Returning other types, 
such as an instance of array.array, might be faster, but if you need a list 
specifically, that's not an option.


> Any inherent dangers here?

Yes: not only pointer 'list', as you realize later, but also EACH pointer 
resulting from PyLong_FromLong COULD be null, with dangerous
results if you don't check.  Do check, and if you get any null, decref
the ones you had previously added and then raise out-of-memory.

This may slow you down by a tiny amount, but risking a nasty crash
is not a viable alternative, IMHO.  You probably won't be able to
_measure_ the proportional slowdown, I suspect.


Alex



From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Wed Nov 27 16:18:38 2002
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:18:38 +0100
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it> <3DE2893A.CCB631D6@jandecaluwe.com> <3DE449BD.1040503@something.invalid> <3DE48ECC.8FC9AE53@jandecaluwe.com> <B8WcnQH5q_B3kXigXTWcoQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3DE536AE.78A270A1@jandecaluwe.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> "Jan Decaluwe" <jan at jandecaluwe.com> wrote in message
> news:3DE48ECC.8FC9AE53 at jandecaluwe.com...
> > Ok, let me explain better. Suppose - for the sake of the
> > argument - that I have a legitimate need for mutable numbers.
> 
> To me, the concept 'mutable number' doesn't 'compute'  very well.
> 
> A label or pointer that is attached to or points to different
> (eternally existing) numbers at different times (a 'variable') make
> sense, and we have such.
> 
> A container whose number contents change also make sense, and we also
> have that.
> 
> One could regard a count as a (changeable) collection of units, but
> that is similar to the above and can be modeled either with list or
> set/dict.
> 
> So what do you mean by mutable number, such that it could be needed
> but not available today?

Too long to explain here - really. I promise I will though (in another
thread, at another time). 

I propose to concentrate on the main point here: whether Python works
as promised or not. At this moment - and with your help - I believe
I can show it doesn't.

Regards, jan

--
Jan Decaluwe
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com


From blalor+dated+1037053361.b3ce5c at ithacabands.org  Wed Nov  6 17:29:30 2002
From: blalor+dated+1037053361.b3ce5c at ithacabands.org (Brian Lalor)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:29:30 GMT
Subject: Emacs and Indentation
References: <aqbcvb$6b65@eccws12.dearborn.ford.com> <6q4rauiqp3.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <m3el9yl4jc.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> writes:

> Select the region you want indented and use C-c >
> Use C-c < to outdent


The other commands I like for this are the rectangle commands.  "C-x r t" will
allow you insert a rectangle and "C-x r k" will allow you to "kill" a
rectangle.  Probably best to read up on the commands (C-h k C-x r t) to figure
out how to use them as I don't think I can describe them well. :-)

--
      Brian Lalor                 |    http://introducingthelalors.org/
  blalor at ithacabands.org (email)  |  blalor at jabber.ithacabands.org (jabber)
                       N33?27.369' W111?56.304' (Earth)


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 22 05:59:43 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:59:43 GMT
Subject: problem with regex
References: <dfc6f16.0211220219.43b43d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <z6oD9.56129$Yw.2564229@news2.tin.it>

x-herbert wrote:


> I will e.g. only find the word eMail in a string. Her is a part of my
> code... .....................
> key = "eMail"
> i = ".....bla bla XXXX ..."  #see below for XXXX...
> regkey = "\\b"+key+"\\b"     # for find key alone
> regex = re.compile(regkey)
> result = regex.search(i)
> if result:
>     print "find"
> else:
>     print "find not"
> .......................
> Result:
> XXXX:       print:
> eMail       find   # o.k. ;-)
> eMailNews   find not
> eMail_News  find not
> eMail-News  find # upps why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> eMail*News  find # upps why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> eMail?News  find # upps why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> eMail#News  find # upps why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ...etc.
> 
> I think, the regkey = "\beMail\b" find this word alone.... ?????

It finds this word as long as it's not part of some OTHER word, i.e., as 
long as it has word boundaries on each side.  And that is exactly what
is happening in the examples you relate; punctuation DOES give a word
boundary, and hyphens, question marks, etc, are punctuation.

If what you want is just to check if string i is equal to string
key, then "if i==key:" is by far fastest.  If for some weird reason
you MUST perform this task with a RE, you can use r'\AeMail\Z' (or
'^eMail$' if you want to match start/end of line too, not JUST of
entire-string apart from any line-issues).  You don't need the
starting anchor (r'\A' or '^') if you use the match method rather
than the search method.

If what you actually want is something different yet, such as
deciding that for your purposes question marks are not puctuation
but some other characters are, you can probably do it, with more
advanced tools such as lookahead and lookbehind, but before we
delve into such complications it MIGHT be better for you to
clarify exactly what you need (and if it's just equality, why
you need it in a RE rather than as plain ==).


Alex



From dnew at san.rr.com  Wed Nov  6 21:33:28 2002
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 02:33:28 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com> <usjap08oved667@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3DC9D0F8.45142D73@san.rr.com>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> But you were around for this, weren't you, Darren?

Indeed. I was one of the first users, I suspect, compiling my own
safe-tcl interpreter. I have no idea what I was thinking when I included
Tcl in that list. Some double-negation turning into a single-negation
twixt brain and fingers, I think.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 27 14:39:48 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:39:48 -0500
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <POadnexRE44XgnigXTWcog@comcast.com>

tem.py:

y=0
def f():
  global y
  y+=1

"Mikael Olofsson" <mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote in message
news:mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list at python.org...

>I have a few related questions. Assume that we have defined f as
above
>in one global namespace, A say, and assume that f (re)binds y. Then
we
>place f in another global namespace, B say. What happens when we
execute
>f in B is that y in A is rebound. I would have guessed that a
variable y
>in B would have been created or rebound. Now to my questions:

>  Why is that so?

Lets augment tem.py with

import math
def g:
  return [f(), math.sin(.033)]

Now your question becomes: why does g look for f and math in tem.py.
Fairly obvious.  Otherwise, doc for g would need to say: 'to run g,
you must define f() and import math.'  Remember, func only has *1*
global context.

>  Is that behaviour intended?
yes
>  Is it likely to stay that way?
yes

>  Is there an obvous way to have f (still defined in A) manipulate
>  objects in B when executed in B?

A way:
>>> import tem
>>> y=0
>>> f=tem.f
>>> tem.f(); y, tem.y
(0, 1)
>>> f(); y, tem.y
(0, 2)
>>> exec tem.f.func_code in globals(); y, tem.y
(1, 2)

eval(tem.f()) or eval(f()) does not change behavior because globals
only affects lookup of tem or f.

Terry J. Reedy





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 18 23:55:21 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:55:21 -0500
Subject: classifier systems re-coded in Python?
References: <mailman.1037670692.6438.python-list@python.org> <182dnaFhsdyUN0SgXTWcrg@comcast.com> <dwiC9.53310$Lg2.15307128@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <VtadnbQSCav-X0SgXTWcpA@comcast.com>

"Robert Oschler" <Oschler at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:dwiC9.53310$Lg2.15307128 at news2.news.adelphia.net...
>
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
> news:182dnaFhsdyUN0SgXTWcrg at comcast.com...
> > try:
> >   google('Holland learning classifier Python')

> Is google() a real command from some Python module, or were you just
being
> Programmer-ish?  If it's from a module, is it PyGoogle, or something
else?

The latter, although it shouldn't be difficult to write google() using
one of the urllibs.  Would not be bad addition to demo part of
distribution ;-).

TJR





From hgg9140 at seanet.com  Wed Nov 13 16:47:27 2002
From: hgg9140 at seanet.com (Harry George)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 13:47:27 -0800
Subject: Is python a good choice for this task?
References: <pan.2002.11.11.20.29.19.704887.2239@spongebob.corporate.com> <aqp58f$8pm$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <ut08vl458fs60d@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1037124201.17612.python-list@python.org> <ut4je48j0lj7cd@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1037201370.24136.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3smy5cfbk.fsf@wilma.localdomain>

Justin Sheehy <justin at iago.org> writes:

> claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
> 
> >>why not recommend the "commands" module instead of popen for those uses?
> 
> > I claim to observe that Python adepts more rarely recommend commands
> > than popen2.  I'll speculate that this is an artifact of commands'
> > late appearance in Python's standard distribution (was it 1.5?).
> 
> Agreed.  I sometimes forget about its existence.
> 
> > *I*'ve never been able to get commands to do anything useful under Windows.
> 
> True enough.  However, in most cases where I've seen someone asking
> how to get the output of some command inside a Python script, their
> program was by its nature not going to be portable.  Thus, if commands
> works on their platform, it may be the best choice for the job.
> 
> Mind, I do not claim that Python programs in general that use external
> processes are not or can not be portable.  The difference is that the
> people that were already writing portable code for this purpose didn't
> have to ask how to spawn a subprocess.  <wink>
> 

I recently helped someone with the classic "run a script from inside
python and get the output".  I recommended using commands.getoutput.
it worked on Linux but not AIX.  Then we went to popen2, and that
worked fine on both platforms.  A few more such experiences, and I
guess I'll be suggesting pipes first, too.

Of course, the real answer is for the complainer (e.g., me) to go look
at the "getoutput" code and figure out why it was having problems,
propose and test the solution, and help the whole community.  Just too
busy right now.

> > at some point I need to figure out what my problems with commands on
> > NT and W95 are
> 
> Sadly, I doubt that these problems are local to you.  From the docs:
> 
> "Availability: Unix."
> 
> It will generally import successfully on windows, but can not be
> counted on to work there.  This is the real answer to my question.
> 
> The question was somewhat rhetorical.  I simply think that the
> commands module occasionally deserves mention, even if it is not yet
> as wonderfully portable as the rest of Python.
> 
> All of this said, I can't argue against the ease of use of [exec] and
> similar facilities in Tcl.  I don't enjoy Tcl much myself, but that is
> certainly one of its strengths.
> 
> -Justin
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov 20 02:02:11 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:02:11 -0800
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDB3373.2578CEC0@alcyone.com>

Chad Netzer wrote:

> So, since the default argument is part of the definition, the default
> argument is actually created and bound, once, during the definition,
> not
> repeatedly during calling.

Oh, of course; there's really no question why this is the case in the
current implementation.  My point is that there is no real a priori
reason why mutable default arguments couldn't do the equivalent of

	def f(x=None):
	    if x is None:
	        x = SomethingMutable
	    ...

[For those about to mention the "But what if you really want x to be
None?" objection, one can simply use a private sentinel object.]  I
don't see a real compelling reason why, if you were to design a language
from scratch, you _wouldn't_ want this behavior -- given the unending
amount of confusion this feature causes.  (There are certainly reasons
to use it, but in my opinion there are clearer ways to get the same
effect.)  It's pretty obvious why it was done in the implementation --
because it's the easiest obvious implementation -- but there's no reason
in and of itself that it _must_ be done that way.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Seat thyself sultanically among the moons of Saturn.
\__/ Herman Melville
    Official Omega page / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/omega/
 The official distribution page for the popular Roguelike, Omega.


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Tue Nov  5 04:31:47 2002
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 01:31:47 -0800
Subject: RecordSet (ADO) with stored procs
References: <9seiru8fasolrqd9ntpgb0pp0lsl7fr83c@4ax.com> <usmypuo6k.fsf@online.no> <k7k1jc4x.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Xns92B7842247874robjohnrichardcouk@192.168.0.246> <u65vilgqd.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <8360efcd.0211050131.6fe89e3a@posting.google.com>

[...] snip very useful ADO db module [...]

Looks great, Syver. Could I just ask, tho', where does one get hold of
the utilities module on line 5?

> from utilities import Indexed

Or, alternatively, what's the definition of the Indexed function it
exposes?

Thanks.
TJG


From JJ at JJ.com  Fri Nov  8 05:40:41 2002
From: JJ at JJ.com (JohnJacob)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:40:41 GMT
Subject: Newbie-list-problem: how to supress constraining  2 lists - a=b ?
References: <813cfe33.0211080235.5d4b8c9e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <JwMy9.1131$Aq5.114092@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"HugOnline" <thehugonline at yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:813cfe33.0211080235.5d4b8c9e at posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> I'm a Python - newbie and I can not solve the following problem:
>
> >>>a=[8,7,6,5,4]   # set this list to a
> >>>b=a             # I' want to have two same lists: a and b
> >>>b.sort()        # b should be sorted
> >>>print b         # it's ok
> [4,5,6,7,8]
> >>>print a
> [4,5,6,7,8]        # but a is sorted, too !!!
>
> How can I suppress the constraining of a and b? I want to have in the
> result two list - a unsorted and b sorted. Is there a switch to supress
> it?
>
> Regards  HugOnline
>

b = a[:]




From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Fri Nov  8 00:43:12 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:43:12 +1100
Subject: PEP 301 -- Package Index and Metadata for Distutils
Message-ID: <200211081643.12862.rjones@ekit-inc.com>

This PEP proposes several extensions to the Distutils packaging system.  These 
enhancements include a central package index server, tools for submitting 
package information to the index and extensions to the package metadata to 
include Trove information.

This PEP does not address issues of package dependency.  It also does not 
address storage and download of packages as described in PEP 243.  Nor is it 
proposing a local database of packages as described in PEP 262.

Feedback is welcome.


    Richard


PEP: 301
Title: Package Index and Metadata for Distutils
Version: $Revision: 1.1 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2002/11/08 02:59:18 $
Author: Richard Jones <rjones at ekit-inc.com>
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 24-Oct-2002
Python-Version: 2.3
Post-History: 


Abstract
========

This PEP proposes several extensions to the Distutils packaging system
[1]_.  These enhancements include a central package index server,
tools for submitting package information to the index and extensions
to the package metadata to include Trove [2]_ information.

This PEP does not address issues of package dependency.  It also does
not address storage and download of packages as described in PEP 243
[6]_.  Nor is it proposing a local database of packages as described
in PEP 262 [7]_.

Existing package repositories such as the Vaults of Parnassus [3]_,
CPAN [4]_ and PAUSE [5]_ will be investigated as prior art in this
field.


Rationale
=========

Python programmers have long needed a simple method of discovering
existing modules and systems available for their use.  It is arguable
that the existence of these systems for other languages have been a
significant contribution to their popularity.  The existence of the
Catalog-SIG, and the many discussions there indicate that there is a
large population of users who recognise this need.

The introduction of the Distutils packaging system to Python
simplified the process of distributing shareable code, and included
mechanisms for the capture of package metadata, but did little with
the metadata save ship it with the package.

An interface to the index should be hosted in the python.org domain,
giving it an air of legitimacy that existing catalog efforts do not
have.

The interface for submitting information to the catalog should be as
simple as possible - hopefully just a one-line command for most users.

Issues of package dependency are not addressed due to the complexity
of such a system.  The original proposal for such a system, PEP 262,
was dropped as the author realised that platform packaging systems
(RPM, apt, etc) already handle dependencies, installation and removal.

Issues of package dissemination (storage on a central server) are
not addressed because they require assumptions about availability of
storage and bandwidth that I am not in a position to make.  PEP 243,
which is still being developed, is tackling these issues and many
more.  This proposal is considered compatible with, and adjunct to
the proposal in PEP 243.


Specification
=============

The specification takes three parts, the `web interface`_,  the
`Distutils register command`_ and the `Distutils Trove
categorisation`_.


Web Interface
-------------

A web interface is implemented over a simple store.  The interface is
available through the python.org domain, either directly or as
packages.python.org.

The store has columns for all metadata fields.  The (name, version)
double is used as a uniqueness key.  Additional submissions for an
existing (name, version) will result in an *update* operation.

The web interface implements the following commands/interfaces:

**index**
  Lists known packages, optionally filtered.  An additional HTML page,
  **search**, presents a form to the user which is used to customise
  the index view.  The index will include a browsing interface like
  that presented in the Trove interface design section 4.3.  The
  results will be paginated, sorted alphabetically and only showing
  the most recent version.  The most recent version information will
  be determined using the Distutils LooseVersion class.

**display**
  Displays information about the package.  All fields are displayed as
  plain text.  The "url" (or "home_page") field is hyperlinked.

**submit**
  Accepts a POST form submission of metadata about a package.  The
  "name" and "version" fields are mandatory, as they uniquely identify
  an entry in the index.  **Submit** will automatically determine
  whether to create a new entry or updating an existing entry.  The
  metadata is checked for correctness where appropriate - specifically
  the Trove discriminators are compared with the allowed set.  An
  update will update all information about the package based on the
  new submitted information.

  There will also be a submit/edit form that will allow manual submission
  and updating for those who do not use Distutils.

**user**
  Registers a new user with the index.  Requires username, password and
  email address.  Passwords will be stored in the index database as SHA
  hashes.  If the username already exists in the database:

  1. If valid HTTP Basic authentication is provided, the password and
     email address are updated with the submission information, or
  2. If no valid authentication is provided, the user is informed that
     the login is already taken.

  Registration will be a three-step process, involving:

  1. User submission of details via the Distutils *register* command,
  2. Index server sending email to the user's email address with a URL
     to visit to confirm registration with a random one-time key, and
  3. User visits URL with the key and confirms registration.

  Several user Roles will exist:

  Admin
    Can assign Owner Role - they decide who may submit for a given
    package name.

  Owner
    Owns a package name, may assign Maintainer Role for that name.  The
    first user to register information about a package is deemed owner
    of the package name.  The Admin user may change this if necessary.

  Maintainer
    Can submit and update info for a particular package name

  Manual (through-the-web) user registration is also available through
  an HTML form.

**roles**
  An interface for changing user Role assignments.

**password_reset**
  Using a supplied email address as the key, this resets a user's
  password and sends an email with the new password to the user.

The **submit** command will require HTTP Basic authentication,
preferably over an HTTPS connection.


Distutils *register* Command
----------------------------

An additional Distutils command, ``register``, is implemented which
posts the package metadata to the central index.  The *register*
command automatically handles user registration; the user is presented
with three options:

1. login and submit package information
2. register as a new packager
3. send password reminder email

On systems where the ``$HOME`` environment variable is set, the user
will be prompted at exit to save their username/password to a file
in their ``$HOME`` directory in the file ``.pythonpackagerc``.

Notification of changes to a package entry will be sent to all users
who have submitted information about the package.  That is, the original
submitter and any subsequent updaters.

The *register* command will include a ``--verify`` option which
performs a test submission to the index without actually committing
the data.  The index will perform its submission verification checks
as usual and report any errors it would have reported during a normal
submission.  This is useful for verifying correctness of Trove
discriminators.

The index server will return custom headers (inspired by PEP 243)
which the *register* command will use to give feedback to the user:

**X-Pypi-Status**
  Either "success" or "fail".

**X-Pypi-Reason**
  A description of the reason for failure, or additional information
  in the case of a success.


Distutils Trove Categorisation
------------------------------

The Trove concept of *discrimination* will be added to the metadata
set available to package authors through the new attribute
"classifiers".  The list of classifiers will be available through the
web, and added to the package like so::

    setup(
        name = "roundup", 
        version = __version__,
        classifiers = [
            'Development Status :: 4 - Beta',
            'Environment :: Console (Text Based)',
            'Environment :: Web Environment',
            'Intended Audience :: End Users/Desktop',
            'Intended Audience :: Developers',
            'Intended Audience :: System Administrators',
            'License :: OSI Approved :: Python License',
            'Operating System :: MacOS X',
            'Operating System :: Microsoft :: Windows',
            'Operating System :: POSIX',
            'Programming Language :: Python',
            'Topic :: Communications :: Email',
            'Topic :: Office/Business',
            'Topic :: Software Development :: Bug Tracking',
        ],
        url = 'http://sourceforge.net/projects/roundup/',
        ...
    )

It was decided that strings would be used for the classification
entries due to the deep nesting that would be involved in a more
formal Python structure.

The original Trove specification that classification namespaces be
separated by slashes ("/") unfortunately collides with many of the
names having slashes in them (e.g. "OS/2").  The double-colon solution
(" :: ") implemented by SourceForge and FreshMeat gets around this
limitation.

The list of classification values on the module index has been merged
from FreshMeat and SourceForge (with their permission).  This list
will be made available through the web interface as a text list which
may then be copied to the ``setup.py`` file.  The *register* command's
``--verify`` option will also check classifiers values.

Unfortunately, the addition of the "classifiers" property is not
backwards-compatible.  A setup.py file using it will not work under
Python 2.1.3.  It is hoped that a bugfix release of Python 2.2 will
relax the argument checking of the setup() command to allow new
keywords, even if they're not actually used.  It is preferable that
a warning be produced, rather than a show-stopping error.


Reference Implementation
========================

Reference code is available from the SourceForge project:

  http://sourceforge.net/projects/pypi/

A demonstration will be available at:

  http://www.amk.ca/cgi-bin/pypi.cgi

===== ===================================================
Done  Feature
===== ===================================================
 Y    Submission
 Y    Index
 Y    Display
 Y    Search
 Y    User registration
 Y    User verification
 Y    Password reset
 Y    Admin interfaces for user/package maintenance
 N    Trove
===== ===================================================

In the two days of the 22nd and 23rd October 2002, after the first
announcement to the Catalog-SIG (22nd) and Distutils-SIG (23rd), the
initial prototype had 45 visitors (not including myself), two of whom
used the *register* command to submit package information.


References
==========

.. [1] Distutils packaging system
   (http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-distutils.html)

.. [2] Trove
   (http://tuxedo.org/~esr/trove/)

.. [3] Vaults of Parnassus
   (http://www.vex.net/parnassus/)

.. [4] CPAN
   (http://www.cpan.org/)

.. [5] PAUSE
   (http://pause.cpan.org/)

.. [6] PEP 243, Module Repository Upload Mechanism
   (http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0243.html)

.. [7] PEP 262, A Database of Installed Python Packages
   (http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0262.html)


Copyright
=========

This document has been placed in the public domain.


Acknowledgements
================

Anthony Baxter and Martin v. Loewis for encouragement and feedback
during initial drafting.

A.M. Kuchling for support including hosting the second prototype.

The many participants of the Distutils and Catalog SIGs for their
ideas over the years.


..
   Local Variables:
   mode: indented-text
   indent-tabs-mode: nil
   sentence-end-double-space: t
   fill-column: 70
   End:




From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 12 02:12:52 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:12:52 -0800
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
References: <mailman.1037073736.4948.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kl9qqa.n25.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Terence Ng fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 11 November 2002 
08:01 pm:

> I guess it cannot consider as spaming if I provide the
> option to remove from the mailing list.
>
        Most of us consider so-called "opt-out" schemes to still be spamming. 
Because using the remove option serves to flag the address as "live", 
making it worth $$$ should one sell the list of addresses.

        I never use the "remove" link/option -- if it's spam, it goes to a 
filter, said filter sends a complaint message to 
postmaster@<from/reply-to/errors-to/received hosts>

        (oh, great -- celphone ringtone dealer yet)

-- 
--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Wed Nov 27 17:26:56 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:26:56 GMT
Subject: using com object written in python from iis/asp
In-Reply-To: <as2qk2$s28ig$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
References: <as2qk2$s28ig$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
Message-ID: <QEbF9.20627$hg1.57756@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Uwe Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I wrote a python script for the implementation of a
> com server. If I use a python script as client, everything
> is o.k. But if I try to contact the com object from an ASP 
> script, I get:
> 
>    Python COM Server Internal Error- Fehler '80004002' 
> 
>    Unexpected Python Error: exceptions.ImportError: No module named com_planefit 
> 
> due to the "--debug" option I get further information:
> 
>     Object with win32trace dispatcher created (object=None)
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\server\dispatcher.py", line 27, in _CreateInstance_
> 	self.policy._CreateInstance_(clsid, reqIID)
>       File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 199, in _CreateInstance_
> 	myob = call_func(classSpec)
>       File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 634, in call_func
> 	return apply(resolve_func(spec), args)
>       File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 623, in resolve_func
> 	module = _import_module(mname)
>       File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\server\policy.py", line 642, in _import_module
> 	  __import__(mname)
>     ImportError: No module named com_planefit
> 
> The COM object is registered as 'PlaneFit', the serverscript is named 'com_planefit.py'.

If com_planefit.py is on a network path, this could be your problem. 
COM objects run by IIS are run under the LocalSystem user, not your 
current user.  This is almost always the underlying reason for such 
problems.

Mark.



From ghillie at suse.de  Wed Nov 20 03:41:38 2002
From: ghillie at suse.de (Gernot Hillier)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:41:38 +0100
Subject: How to savely end a python sub-interpreter from a different thread?
Message-ID: <arfhs7$ftp$1@Fourier.suse.de>

Hi!

I'm developing a communication application which uses python as embedded 
script language. The python controls the work which is done when the 
connection is established. So when I receive a connection request, a new 
thread containing a new python sub-interpreter is created. 

Now I have the problem that the connection can be ended at any time from the 
other side. I get a notification about this in another thread.

Now my problem is: how to end the python script gracefully at this moment?

Currently I've introduced a new Exception in my python extension. I then 
throw this exception from the other thread into the right python 
interpreter. So the script will (hopefully) get it and can end gracefully.

Here's some code of the other thread:

void Connection::ConnectionLost()  
{
[...]
        if (py_state) {
                // acquire lock, switch to right thread context
                PyEval_RestoreThread(py_state); 
                PyErr_SetString(CallGoneError,"Call was finished from partner.");
                PyEval_SaveThread();
        }
[...]
}

py_state is set to the PyThreadState* of the running Python interpreter.

This works most times, but sometimes it seems to cause some problems leading 
to crashes in Py_EndInterpreter() for the current connection or the 
subsequent Py_NewInterpreter()  for the next connection. These problems 
especially seem to occur when two Python sub-interpreters are deleted 
nearly at the same time. 

As I suspected stack corruption, I tried to LD_PRELOAD libefence.so. Now I 
get the following back trace:

Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[Switching to Thread 1026 (LWP 12720)]
0x080ce3e3 in PyErr_SetObject (exception=0x432a8fe0, value=0x42152fc8) at 
Python/errors.c:55
55              Py_XINCREF(exception);
Current language:  auto; currently c
(gdb) bt
#0  0x080ce3e3 in PyErr_SetObject (exception=0x432a8fe0, value=0x42152fc8) 
at Python/errors.c:55
#1  0x080ce4ae in PyErr_SetString (exception=0x432a8fe0, string=0x8103420 
"Connection was finished from partner.") at Python/errors.c:70
#2  0x0805d96d in Connection::ConnectionLost() () at connection.cpp:351

Can someone tell me what's the problem here?

Or has someone any better idea what to do to end the python interpreter?

TIA!!

-- 
Ciao,

Gernot


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 20 01:02:49 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:02:49 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org> <slrnasuojg.l14.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <pan.2002.11.20.04.16.26.459889@mn.rr.com>
Message-ID: <yKOdnYljnrocvkagXTWcqA@comcast.com>

"Anna" <revanna at mn.rr.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.11.20.04.16.26.459889 at mn.rr.com...
> Before asking a question here, I?d have already read the tutorial
(and
> probably 3 more tutorials and done a google search too). I wouldn?t
feel
> comfortable asking here unless I had.

Unfortunately, other do... and do.


> So if I?m still here asking, it?s because I need an answer that
*isn?t*
> just a reference to the tutorial, something from a live human
being... So,
> yeah, I guess I would consider it a brushoff, unless you took the
time to
> expand on the tutorial in some way... Personally, I?d far rather get
no
> answer than ?RTFM, silly newbie?... cuz chances are, I already
did...

So mention that you *have* read the tutorial... and looked thru the
FAQ,
or tried google (if appropriate).  Then you may well get more.

TJR




From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 19 20:57:47 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:57:47 -0800
Subject: popen / batchfile / environment variables
References: <are0ca$bm$07$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1037734951.19283.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <r6qera.em3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Trent Mick fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 19 November 2002 
11:40 am:

> 
> 1. run this:
>     path_to\vcvars32.bat && devenv solution_file.sln /rebuild
>     "Release"
>
        Does that really work in Windows?

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From plehmann at fred.net  Sat Nov  9 23:46:54 2002
From: plehmann at fred.net (Paul Lehmann)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:46:54 -0500
Subject: Newbie- how to basics
References: <8d3e714e.0211071600.2a98b136@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <hAkz9.90$BX4.37942@news.abs.net>

Tony C wrote:

> I've gone through much of the documentation included with Python
> 2.2.2, but can find any kind of reference on how to clear the screen
> from a python script, or at the command line.
> 
> 
> Another useful feature would be command line history (up arrow, down
> arrow, etc), like in the Unix shells.
> 
> Would ssomeone point me to some docs (specific locations) which
> descibe these features ?
> 
> thanks

I just started looking monitoring this newsgroup with the thoughts that 
I might want to learn python.  It looks like a friendly group (unlike 
comp.lang.c) It took me awhile to learn how to clear the screen in a C 
program in Linux.  What works there is the following:

system("clear");

Let me know if this works for you in python.  I think I will start learning 
python.  The user community seems friendly.


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Nov 10 14:40:10 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:40:10 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqlos7$66p$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <qpwz9.16127$oC3.1394670@news010.worldonline.dk> <3dce96ad$0$12451$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <3DCEB61A.EF3D8E05@alcyone.com>

Jens Axel S?gaard wrote:

> I can't remember a link - but if you want to Google for them,
> they were calles M-expressions.
> 
> I can't remember if the M-expressions were implementes or whether
> they are to be found in McCarthy's articles from that perioed.

Hmm, m-expressions are the writing variant I mentioned in another part
of this thread, where unambiguous parentheses are simply removed.  At
least, that's my exposure the the term as used by Chaitin in _The
Unknowable_.  His use of m-expressions over s-expressions, in fact, were
one of the motivations for me to stop reading.

This makes Lisp similar to, say, Logo, where parentheses are optional
and the arity of the procedures being invokes is what determines the
grouping.  (Parentheses can be used to force non-standard grouping,
however.)  I think it makes sense for Logo, for which every operation
has a well-defined number of inputs, but don't think it makes nearly as
much sense for Lisp itself, where there is much more variation.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ With such a weapon I could boil the Earth to vapor.
\__/ Chmeee
    CSBuddy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/csbuddy/
 A Counter-Strike server log file monitor in Python.


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 11 15:39:23 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 20:39:23 GMT
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqp4hr$tkk$0@216.39.172.122>

On 11 Nov 2002 07:20:20 -0800, a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya) wrote:

>My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
>a single line of code.
>
>perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
>
>can python do something like this?

>>> import sys; ['' for a in [[1,1]] for i in xrange(20) if a.append(a.pop(0)+a[0]) or sys.stdout.write('%s '%a[0])]
1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 []


Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bobx at linuxmail.org  Mon Nov  4 05:32:25 2002
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Bob X)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 10:32:25 GMT
Subject: Book recommendation please
References: <1036349092.40578.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net> <LAex9.66857$aL4.2045429@news1.tin.it> <Pxkx9.42038$Lg2.11444037@news2.news.adelphia.net> <gDpx9.83148$TD1.3796411@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <Z0sx9.42126$Lg2.11540766@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:gDpx9.83148$TD1.3796411 at news2.tin.it...
<snip>
> The final draft, including all corrections required by technical
> reviews, has been in the editor's hands for almost two months now.
> I think it must have ended up queued behind other unrelated books
> in O'Reilly's busy schedule.  Sorry, but this means things are now
> out of my hands and I'm unable to make sensible predictions.

Darn...I was hoping you'd say "by Christmas"!  ; )

Bob




From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 27 22:57:10 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:57:10 +1300
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it> <3DE49BB7.80D199FB@jandecaluwe.com> <slrnau9sc2.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3DE59416.5090600@something.invalid>

Robin Munn wrote:

> I was experimenting with subclassing list the
> other day and discovered to my surprise that overriding setitem() and
> setslice() had no effect on l.extend(x). This struck me as violating the
> Principle of Least Surprise, *especially* since the documentation had
> said that l.extend(x) was equivalent to l[len(l):len(l)] = x.


I think you're taking the manual too literally. All it's saying
is that, for the built-in list type, the end result of
l.extend(x) is the same as that of l[len(l):len(l)] = x. It's
not meant to imply that it's implemented by actually performing
that action, including going through all the __xxx__ special
methods. Requiring that it did would make it very inefficient.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From efritz at glja.com  Mon Nov  4 09:12:56 2002
From: efritz at glja.com (Erwin Fritz)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 07:12:56 -0700
Subject: [Dshield] Is there a good checksum system for OPENBSD?
References: <v03110708b9ebc25f468a@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <3DC68068.6090208@glja.com>

Look for FCheck. It's a Perl script that does this trick.

John D. wrote:
> I'm looking for a Program that compares md5 file checksums in a file against actual files and reports discrepancies.   A commercial program like "Tripwire" does this,  but isn't there an Open Source program that can do this.
> 
> It would be a good thing to use for files in the /bin directories,  and other places where one would not expect files to be changed,   but would easily identify trojans,  and other changes to executeable files and binaries.
> 
> I suppose it wouldn't be that hard to write this in Python or Perl.   But how long would it take to checksum thousands of files?


-- 
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 16:21:02 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:21:02 +0000
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net> <idf5gXAQ3p29EwJo@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <n0o547l3.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <++UOYJA+sq29EwYj@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <n0o547l3.fsf at python.net>, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net>
.....

I'm being stupid you really need a .lib for linking to the ctypes
extension. I'll have to see if I can get my rather poor mingw to do
that. Haven't had much success with the .dll either. The cygwin build
was a nightmare as I recall with libtool etc etc :(
-- 
Robin Becker


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Fri Nov 29 18:30:01 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 23:30:01 GMT
Subject: importing question ?
References: <mailman.1038495163.17624.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE7F96B.1030606@nyc.rr.com>

> 'from classes import *' brings all the toplevel objects in classes into 
> your local namespace, so you can access them just through the name. 
> Generally, though, I think this is considered bad practice, as it could 
> create overlaps. 

I just ran into this and I do not like it, because I have what I 
consider one little subsystem (Cells) but I have it spread over ten 
source files. Python may end up forcing me into lumping all that code 
into one big source file. I have tried adding "from <cell-source> import 
*", but so far it is not going well. (still trying to come up with a 
small recreatable failure to ask for help on.)

Lisp lets you:

(in-package :cells)

...at the top of several source files, as many as I like. When it loads 
them, everything goes into the Cells namespace (which is fine because it 
is one functional chunk).


-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From zanton at axystem.com  Thu Nov 21 06:56:22 2002
From: zanton at axystem.com (Anton Zubenko)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:56:22 +0200
Subject: zope + extrenal method + ZODB + threading  = bogus results
Message-ID: <3DDCC9E6.6070608@axystem.com>

Hello to everyone!

Roughly my problem looks as follows:

i need to fork threads, fetching pop3 messages for several accounts 
within my zope external method. The fetched data should to be converted 
into ZODB objects and stored within my zope Data.fs afterwards
Without threads my code works as expected.
If i call the main function within a new thread (using threading.py), 
ZODB part of my code produces totally bogus results. From time to time 
it ends up with an error

    ***Shouldn't load state for .... when connection is closed

at different lines of the code, which implement my attempts to get an 
object using either getattr or restrictedTraverse (both functions fail 
at this point) or simply trying to get/change object's property.
Even if the object is traversed without problems, incrementing it's 
integer property returns really incremented value,
but within ZMI i see no changes. Next time when external methos is 
called, this incremented value still grows, but still no result is seen 
in ZMI.
This is just an example - changing anything within ZODB works only until 
i'm running my thread, but i see no actual changes  afterwards. The most 
weird fact is that next time external method is called it sees ZODB as 
if it has been changed, however ZMI refuses to admit this.

Dropping threads off fixes the problem.
Where should i go to get a workaround?

Any ideas are highly appreciated,
thanks in advance!


Anton Zubenko,
developer lead
Axystem



From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Sat Nov  2 20:06:36 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 3 Nov 2002 03:06:36 +0200
Subject: Modifying Kernel Routes?
Message-ID: <3dc484ac@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Hi,

we have implemented a routing algorithm for ad-hoc-networks (TORA) in
Python using os.popen("route") to actually set the (linux) kernel routes.
Did anyone of you come around some example code how to alter routes in
pure python or even better do you know of an extension module which offers
this functionality?

Yours,

Mickey.


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  6 02:13:02 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 07:13:02 GMT
Subject: Jython/Python license questions
Message-ID: <2i3y9.44581$Lg2.12066858@news2.news.adelphia.net>

I ended up putting pretty much all of the classes in Jython.jar into my Bean
(the org, com, and jxxload_help dirs).  Note, I have not modified the
classes in any way, just added them to my JAR archive. So here are my
questions:

1) By doing this am I violating any provisions of the Jython/Python license?

2) Am I still allowed to sell my bean, now that the main guts of Jython are
in my bean, without additional fees or royalties?  (If it matters, yes my
bean does provide extensive new functionality beyond the Jython interpreter,
which I don't expose to the user.  Also there is extensive functionality
residing in other pure Java classes in my JAR file.)

3) Since I have not modified any of the classes, am I under any obligation
to distribute or make available the Jython source or jython.jar file?

4) What are my obligations as far as displaying notices of copyright and
authorship belonging to Jython/Python?  I'll probably put the notices up
anyways, unless that violates some kind of "implied endorsement" clause of
the Jython/Python licenses, but I just want to be absolutely sure what my
obligations are.

5) Anything else I need to be aware of?

I would love to hear from those of you selling commercial packages with
Jython or Python embedded.  That would be great.

Oh yes, (J)Python rocks!

thx





From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Wed Nov  6 13:57:45 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 18:57:45 -0000
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
Message-ID: <slrnasiph8.pma.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

My jonpy modules are producing the following warning when compiled
under Python 2.3 (current cvs):

  FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive
  values in Python 2.4 and up

The offending line of code is as follows:

  data = struct.pack("!I", len(nameval[0]) | 0x80000000)

As far as I can tell, this change, when it comes in, will make no
difference at all to the way this code works. Am I right? What am
I supposed to do to make the warning go away? Rewrite 0x80000000 as
0x40000000 * 2 ? ;-)


From a_human_work at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 11 10:20:20 2002
From: a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 07:20:20 -0800
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
Message-ID: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>

My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
a single line of code.

perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'

can python do something like this?


From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Nov 18 11:53:33 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:53:33 -0500
Subject: Will python binaries compiled on vs.net?
In-Reply-To: <3dd91565@post.ulj.menatepspb.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEELECMAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Alexander Semenov]
> I'm using python on win32, and recently moved to most current MS
> C compiler VS.NET (VS7).

> ...

> Unfortunately there are incompatibility beetween python binary
> python.exe built by vs6 and modules built by vs7. VS7 used new
> msvcrt.dll (msvcr70.dll) and msvcp70.dll. If you malloced memory by
> msvcrt.dll and free it by msvcr70.dll you probably get a crash.

I haven't tried it myself, but others have also reported incompatibilities
(read "crashes") due to mixing file operations across the MS runtimes.
Apparently MS C's internal file locking scheme gets fatally confused then.

> So I cant build modules from sources now.

I don't understand why you can't build from source.

> I know, python compiles on vc7, I even succesfully tried to
> compile it, but recompiling all of modules I use may become a PITA.

PITA != can't.

> Especially modules like PyWin32 or PIL. Some modules will be better
> built by authors.

That's certainly so, but unless MS makes a suitable compiler available at no
cost, I expect many authors simply *can't* recompile.  Indeed, PythonLabs is
in that boat:  we don't have a version of VC7 with an optimizing compiler,
and I've detected no signs that my employer is keen to buy one.  Even if
they were, because VC6 is still in much wider use, it would also require
committing to two distinct Windows builds, and all the new headaches that
come with going from "one" to "two".

> So, my question is: when python binaries will be built by VS7? I
> think it force authors of popular modules rebuilt it too. I know,
> this makes problems for people with vs6, but now vs7 is most current
> realize from MS.

I don't foresee PythonLabs getting into the VC7 business anytime soon:
there are monetary and human costs we can't afford.  Perhaps ActiveState
will, and/or the Python Business Forum will fund a VC7 effort, but I don't
know.




From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Wed Nov  6 18:40:46 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:40:46 -0000
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list@python.org> <slrnasj332.v3h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <jwbaxter-E8FADF.14412506112002@corp-radius.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasja3u.ph0.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <jwbaxter-E8FADF.14412506112002 at corp-radius.supernews.com>, John Baxter wrote:
>> I don't really like the idea of hacking around with the warning
>> module, so I guess I'll replace 0x80000000 with (-0x7fffffff-1) which
>> won't generate a warning on any version of Python and will work on all
>> versions... I think ;-)
> 
> 64bit integers?

Why do you think that will make any difference? I just want to set
bit 31 of the integer, and I don't care if the integer is 32 bits
signed, 32 bits unsigned, or >32 bits, I just want to set bit 31,
the addition operator and struct.pack("!I") will still make the same
output no matter what type of integer they're getting (unless they're
buggy ;-) )


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov 12 15:39:52 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 21:39:52 +0100
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <mailman.1037127134.12999.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m37kfi1q07.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Gustavo Niemeyer <niemeyer at conectiva.com> writes:

> > >>> x = (1, 2, 3)
> [...]
> > >>> x += (4, 5, 6)
> 
> Hey, shouldn't this raise an exception?

Because the tuple is immutable? Then would you expect

x += 1

to raise an exception also?

Regards,
Martin


From claird at phaseit.net  Tue Nov 26 17:22:18 2002
From: claird at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 22:22:18 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 26)
Message-ID: <uu7t0ql41ff40f@corp.supernews.com>

I apologize for last week's "Python-URL!" outage.  I continue to wrestle with
ways to improve its reliability in the future.


QOTW:  "You're on Windows, so the standard way to do things is to hack until
you get the behaviour you want... ;-)"   Eric Brunel 

"Incidentally, do you believe you are the first person to think of this?  This
question ('how can I obscure Python byte-code?') comes up at least once a
month on this list.  It's fairly clear that any scheme you come up with will
take longer to implement than it will to break by a competent hacker.

Anyway, good luck!  If your software is any better than your protection scheme
I'll download it from http://www.warez.com when you release it ;)"  Cliff Wells


    "PyCon is a community-oriented Python conference emphasizing
    accessibility and low cost."  More code, fewer suits.
	http://www.python.org/pycon/

    Volume 3 of the *Python Journal* kicks off with great titles.
	http://pythonjournal.cognizor.com/

    While we continue to refine "best practices", it's clear that we
    collectively have a way to go in our awareness of the power of
    list comprehensions, and also that lambdas need to be rewritten
    out of the beginnings of tutorials.  Bonuses include examples of
    functionalism-think ("reduce" for "for", and so on).
	http://groups.google.com/groups?th=a21d4992bcd0bb58

    Event-driven, enterprise-integrating, ...--could Twisted better
    alloy the significant buzzwords of the day?
	http://www.zoteca.com/wp/PythonEAIwp.html   
	http://www.oetrends.com/cgi-bin/page_display.cgi?98

    Leading Pythoneers Mike Olson and Uche Ogbuji explain their use of
    the language with RSS.
	http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-pyth11.html

    Big important projects, as well as small and beloved ones, depend on
    ZODB.  The latter continues to accumulate functionality, most recently
    IndexedCatalog.
	http://www.async.com.br/projects/IndexedCatalog/

    Recommended security-related reading of the week:  "The Peon's
    Guide To Secure System Development"
        http://m.bacarella.com/papers/secsoft/html/index.html       

    Watch for Python-pertinent items in the corporate communications
    of scripting patron ActiveState Tools:
	http://www.activestate.com/Corporate/Communications/Newsletters/


========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
        http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/summaries/
        http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

    The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
    what AI can generate
        http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

    Tenth International Python Conference 
        http://www.python10.org            

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.



From mwh at python.net  Mon Nov 11 05:09:31 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:09:31 GMT
Subject: getting started with cgi on os x
References: <mailman.1036987297.12144.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3heeo2zfw.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Stephen Aichele" <stephen at mochamail.com> writes:

> Hello.
> 
> A few years back, I dove into python, and after being away from it
> for a year, I'm looking at using it to build a cgi backend to a
> website.
> 
> I'm new to cgi.  I'm working on a mac running os x.  
> 
> Question #1:  I'm assuming that I need to have a web server up and
> running on my development machine to get cgi pages to display in a
> browser.  Any info on setting up apache or medusa(?) to run python
> cgi scripts on os x would be much appreciated.  I feel a bit lost.

You already have one; poke around in System Preferences.  To execute
CGI scripts, you probably need to put things in 

    ~/Sites/cgi-bin/

and you may need to fiddle /etc/httpd/users/$YOU.conf (or some file
like that).

> Question #2: I'm also assuming that the easiest way to call a python
> cgi script from a web page is via a form 'action'.  I'd really like
> to use javascript to call python cgi scripts/methods , (rather than
> using 'action' from a form ).  My hunch is that this is impossible,
> or at least a pain in the rear.  Am I right?

Not quite sure what you mean... I think you can write js like

  window.location = "http://127.0.0.1/~you/cgi-bin/myscript.py?args=..."

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  On the other hand, the following areas are subject to boycott
  in reaction to the rampant impurity of design or execution, as
  determined after a period of study, in no particular order:
    ...                              http://www.naggum.no/profile.html


From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Nov 20 19:52:07 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:52:07 -0500
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org>
 <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
 <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org>
 <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
 <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de>
 <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com>
 <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <34C39kKkXoxf092yn@gnosis.cx>                

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote previously:
|Try two or three months [to learn Common Lisp], at worst.  A competent
|and experienced programmer can probably learn a language like Common
|Lisp in a couple weeks in their spare time.

There's a strange phenomenon with programmers, especially (but not
exclusively) ones who are attached to one or a couple favorite
langauges.  They claim--rather persistently--that someone/anyone can
learn their language in an absurdly short time period.

Sometimes it is "a few hours to pick up the basics of Python;" other
times "a couple weeks to master CL;" or occasionally "a few months to
become an expert in X."  All these claims are quite literally
unbelievable... and yet they come up over and over from every advocate.

The funny thing about all the claims is that they are enthymatic
contrasts with all "those other languages."  The writers apparently
expect readers to have a realistic sense about how long it takes to
learn most programming languages (months or years), so the silly claim
about <favorite-language> is then drawn as such a strong contrast with
that.  But as soon as anyone explicitly STATES the claim that
<non-favorite-language> actually takes -many- months to learn, the
optimistic "days" for <favorite-language> appears as an absurdity rather
than a language advantage.

It's a funny structure... sort of like what ordinary language
philosophers (Grice or Dummett, I think) call "essentially accidental"
events.  But this is "essentially implicit."

Yours, David...

P.S. I'm a pretty smart guy, btw.  From kindergarten through doctorate,
I always learned things faster than just about everyone around me.  I
remember more than almost anyone I know.  Everywhere I've worked as a
programmer, I've been pretty much the best one at the site.

And you know what:  I CANNOT learn CL in a couple weeks of my spare
time.  I've spent more than that, and understand little about it,
really.  When I first learned Python, it took me much longer than a few
hours to pick up even the barest essentials.  And when I have programmed
with languages fulltime for several years, I continued to learn new
things about them after those years.

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/




From patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au  Sat Nov 23 06:02:11 2002
From: patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au (Patrick W)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 22:02:11 +1100
Subject: Newbie Q on searching lists
References: <3DDF1673.4020203@nyc.rr.com> <mailman.1038036812.7653.python-list@python.org> <3DDF3C32.4060205@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <87wun4wnv0.fsf@key.localdomain>

Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:

> >>1. Am I missing something?
> >>
> > if calculators.count(thisCalculator): # returns zero if not found
> >    raise CircularDependency, thisCalculator
> 
> oops :)  thx!

Try this:

if thisCalculator in calculators:
        do_stuff()

Tests of the form '<item> in <sequence>' work for dictionaries
(hashtables), strings and tuples as well as lists.


From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Fri Nov 15 07:24:32 2002
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 12:24:32 GMT
Subject: Reverse dictionnary
References: <nkz4rajw3ln.fsf@pinel.shfj.cea.fr>
Message-ID: <ar2p20$r1arl$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Julien Barbot <barbot at shfj.cea.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
> Does "reverse dictionnary" exists in python ?
> I would like to get a value with the key, and to get the key with the value
> For example:
> d1 = {1:"str1", 2:"str2" }

> d1.getvalue(1) give me "str1"
> and 
> g1.getkey("str1") give me 1

> With the result given as fast as normal dictionnaries.

What about

    d= {1:'one', 2:'two' }
    temp_list = [ (d[k],k) for k in d.keys() ]
    d_reverse = dict(temp_list)

maybe

    d_reverse=dict(zip(d.values(), d.keys())

works, but I'm not sure if d.values() and d.keys() are allways
in right order...

Greetings, Uwe


-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt      Computer science is no more about Computers,
uwe.schmitt at num.uni-sb.de      than astronomy is about telescopes. (Dijkstra)
http://www.procoders.net           


From theller at python.net  Wed Nov 20 05:04:51 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 11:04:51 +0100
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net> <idf5gXAQ3p29EwJo@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <n0o547l3.fsf@python.net> <++UOYJA+sq29EwYj@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <roPrtXAT+s29Ew7m@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <isys36bg.fsf@python.net>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> >extension. I'll have to see if I can get my rather poor mingw to do
> >that. Haven't had much success with the .dll either. The cygwin build
> >was a nightmare as I recall with libtool etc etc :(
> Thomas can't you use distutils with cygwin? Looked in cygwincompiler and
> it says
>  .....  It also contains
> the Mingw32CCompiler class which handles the mingw32 port of GCC (same
> as cygwin in no-cygwin mode).

Robin, don't bother any more. I'll convert the libffi assembler code
into MSVC syntax by hand.

Thanks,

Thomas


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Nov 10 01:44:12 2002
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:44:12 -0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7b8f89d6.0211081548.f91b468@posting.google.com> <aqjku8$njc$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <3DCE003C.9080505@mindspring.com>

Pascal Costanza:
> I have recently switched over to Common Lisp 
> as my language of choice and have written an article about it, to be 
> found at http://www.pascalcostanza.de/lisp/guide.html - you might find 
> it worthwhile.

It's a discussion of Lisp, with only a few points specifically of
why you switched from Java to Lisp and one mention of Python.  (There
were two references to Monty Python, from which Python the language got
its name.)  I was hoping for a more philosophical rumination of why
you chose Java over Python.  :(

Some points that are weaker in a Python/Lisp comparison are

  - Python doesn't have as many "funny names" as Lisp

  - Python also does run-time typing rather than static typing

  - You say
 > Please remember that due to their syntax, C-like languages and Pascal 
 > might also run into trouble when curly braces or begin/end keywords
 > are used incorrectly in conjunction with control statements (like if,
 > while, switch/case, and so on)

But Python doesn't have that problem, given neither braces nor begin/end
keywords.  Indeed, you seem to suggest that all Algol-derived languages
are like C/C++/Pascal/Java in having explicit delimiters, a separate
compilation step, static typing,

   - You say:
 > A nice thing about Lisp is that it doesn't noticeably distinguish
 > between built-in functions and user-defined functions.

The same is true for Python.


You talk about Lisp's macro feature.  That's come up  several times
on c.l.py.  I understand at least theoretically the usefulness of
macros.  However, I am quite worried about the supportability of
defining your own language on the fly.  For the comparison I would
have like to have seen, I was hoping for comments on the
maintainability of macros, especially given that some people like
you have found "them to be conceptually quite simple and easy to
write" while others find them "seemingly hard to understand."  I
believe the answer is you want a language which emphasises your
personal expressive power and not which which emphasises the
team's/project's/group's power.

A discussion on the pros and cons of macros has come up on c.l.py
before so there's no need to respond to it now, I'm just pointing
out what I was hoping to see and why I found this to be less
than that.

I read your mention that Lisp allows recoverability at the place
where the exception took place.  I recall reading in my progamming
languages book back in college that that ends up not being all that
useful, but I can't provide a reference for that now.  In my
own current thinking, I agree with the book.

I've used exceptions for many years now, and while thinking about
that book's comment.  I haven't found a place where I needed
continuation from the exception point but many where continuations
would be harder to handle.  For example, sometimes when the error
occurs I need to raise different exceptions given the results,
possibly after doing a bit of probing.  If all exceptions offered
rerun-at-raise point, this means my code needs to handle a return
to that point, followed by (in essense) a rerun of the code which
caused the error.  This can be tricky.

So I would also have prefered more examples of why a feature was
not only available in Lisp but why that feature is useful for
most programming tasks.  (And you are a fan of "practical things
that you need in every-day programming" so should stress usefulness
over ability.)

					Andrew
					dalke at dalkescientific.com



From drifty at bigfoot.com  Mon Nov 18 00:00:32 2002
From: drifty at bigfoot.com (Brett C.)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 21:00:32 -0800
Subject: python-dev Summary, 2002-11-01 through 2002-11-15
Message-ID: <mailman.1037626867.20842.clpa-moderators@python.org>

==================================================
python-dev Summary, 2002-11-01 through 2002-11-15
==================================================

This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ between
November 1, 2002 and November 15, 2002 (inclusive).  It is intended to
inform the wider Python community of on-going developments on the list
that might interest the wider Python community.  To comment on
anything mentioned here, just post to python-list at python.org or
comp.lang.python in the usual way; give your posting a meaningful
subject line, and if it's about a PEP, include the PEP number (e.g.
Subject: PEP 201 - Lockstep iteration). All python-dev members are
interested in seeing ideas discussed by the community, so don't
hesitate to take a stance on something.  And if all of this really
interests you then get involved and join python-dev!

This is the fifth summary written by Brett Cannon (after a relaxing
two week hiatus; thanks to Raymond Hettinger for doing the Summary
while I was gone).

All summaries are now archived at http://www.python.org/dev/summary/
(thanks to A.M. Kuchling for setting that up).

Please note that this summary is written using reStructuredText_ which
can be found at http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html .  Any unfamiliar
punctuation is probably markup for reST_; you can safely ignore it
(although I suggest learning reST; its simple and is accepted for PEP
markup).  Also, because of the wonders of programs that like to
reformat, I cannot guarantee you will be able to run the text version
of this summary through Docutils_ as-is.  If you want to do that, get
an original copy of the text file.

.. _python-dev mailing list:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
.. _Docutils: http://docutils.sf.net/
.. _reST:
.. _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html

======================
Summary Announcements
======================

Not much to say for this summary.  The only thread skipped that
someone out there might care about was one on getting the PEPs to
display properly for IE 6 when the PEP was written in reST_.

Thanks goes to Raymond Hettinger for covering the Summary while I was
away on vacation.  Thanks also goes out to Laura Creighton and Guido
for suggesting graduate schools that are Python-friendly.

Michael Chermside was the only person to respond directly to my
question as to whether anyone had issue with me injecting my
personality into the summary.  But he said to go ahead and let me
personality permeate throughout this thing, so it will.  Let that be a
lesson to anyone who wanted me to shut up and be drab; had you and a
friend spoken up this little tirade would not be happening.  =)



=================================
`Getting python-bz2 into 2.3`__
=================================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029830.html

Continuation of http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-October/029829.html

Gustavo Niemeyer asked how he should go about getting his python-bz2_
module into the standard library.  He was basically told to submit a
patch complete with the module, docs, regression tests, etc.;
everything a healthy module needs.  It was also suggested that he
provide a MSVC project file.

That didn't work for Gustavo (who now has CVS write priveleges;
congrats) since he doesn't use Windows.  This was a slight problem
because if the extension file doesn't build under Windows it can't be
included in the PythonLabs Windows distro.  So keep in mind that if
your module won't directly compile for 6 different versions of Windows
it won't be included in the Windows distro.

.. _python-bz2: http://python-bz2.sourceforge.net/

===================================
`Becoming a python contributor`__
===================================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029831.html

Continuation of http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-October/029828.html

Gustavo Niemeyer asked about how he could help contribute to Python. 
He made the observation that "Guido and others [have been] bothered a
few times because of the lack of man power" which has led to a "small
core of very busy developers working on core/essential/hard stuff
*and* in code reviewing as well" (and I can attest to this fact that
this is very true; I am amazed the guys at PythonLabs have any form of
a life outside of work with the amount of time they put in).  Gustavo
felt "that the Python development is currently overly centralized".

Martin v. Loewis responded first.  He said that "the most important
aspect I'd like to hand off is the review of patches; to Tim, it is
the analysis of bug reports".  Martin then listed various points on
how to be able to review a patch and how to handle bug reports; the
email is at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029831.html
.  I *highly* recommend reading the email because Martin's points are
all good and more patch reviewers would be rather nice.

M.A. Lemburg commented next, saying that he "wouldn't mind if other
developers with some time at hand jump in on already assigned patches
and bug reports to help out".  Just because a patch has been assigned
to someone doesn't mean the patch or the assignee couldn't use more
help.  Having the patch assigned to someone just means that they take
responsibility to apply the patch if it is worthy of being accepted or
to reject it.  It should not stop other people from making comments or
helping out so that the assignee can have a little bit of time saved
for other things... like another patch to assign to themselves.  MAL
also suggested that we have more maintainers that are in charge of
chunks of code, e.g. Martin handles all locale code.

Martin disagreed with this idea, though.  Jack Jansen agreed with
Martin.  He thought that if something came up that was not within the
realm of a specific person that it "either get[s] ignored, or passed
on to Guido, or picked up by yourself or Michael [Hudson] or one of
the very few other people who do general firefighting".  Martin
commented later that he would hope that the stewardship of specific
code does not get any more formal.

Martin then stated how one goes about getting commit priveleges for
Python on SF: "just step forward and say that you want. In the past,
Guido has set a policy that people who's commit privilege is fresh
will still have to use SF, but can perform the checkin themselves". 
Tradition has stated that "fresh" is your first two or three SF
patches.  But please only step forward if you are known to python-dev
or PythonLabs since commit priveleges won't be given to people who
just wander in off the proverbial street and ask for it.  Martin
basically states this in a later email by saying that "people should
not produce a burst of patches just to get commit privileges. Instead,
they should contribute patches steadily (and should have done so in
the past), and then get CVS write access as a simplification for the
rest of the maintainers".

Neal Norwitz pointed out that if a bug ends up with a fix it is best
to submit a separate patch instead of attaching it to the bug report. 
That way there is a bigger chance of the patch being seen and dealth
with.  But please make sure to mention that it fixes a bug so that the
bug can be closed!  Martin even suggested mentioning this fact in the
title of the patch submission.

====================
`RoundUp status`__
====================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029879.html

This is a splinter thread of the 'Becoming a python contributor'
thread in which Micheal Hudson asked how using Roundup_ for replacing
SF_ was coming along.  Guido said things had come up that was holding
it up.  One was that the test server running at
http://www.python.org:8080 had died when the box was restarted (it is
now back up).  There were also some changes to Roundup that needed to
be dealt with in order to get everything over from SF on to Roundup. 
Guido also just ran out of time to review it more, although he did
like what he had reviewed so far.  Guido asked for a volunteer.

It was asked what was needed.  Guido said that Roundup had moved over
to Zope-style templating so all the old templates that Gordon (I
assuming this is Gordon McMillan) wrote needed to be changed.  There
were also some bugs that needed to be dealt with that are being
tracked at Roundup hosted at http://www.python.org:8080 .  And there
also will need to be preparations for the day that development is
moved over from SF to the Roundup setup; that will require
transferring everything over from SF, shutting down SF, and handling
any bugs that crop up from the heavy use that the new setup is going
to get.

So if you have any dislike for SF, then please contribute to Roundup
and help get Python off of there!

.. _Roundup: http://roundup.sourceforge.net/
.. _SF: http://www.sf.net/

=======================================
`Contributing...current bug status`__
=======================================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029846.html

Neal Norwitz went through the SF_ bug tracker and counted 325 bugs and
generated a very easy to read page listing all the bugs with their
relevant info.  You can find the HTML version at
http://www.metaslash.com/py/sf.data.html .  If you find a bug there
you think you can help out on, then go to SF and do so!

=======================
`Low hanging fruit`__
=======================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029850.html

Neal Norwitz generated a list of what he thought were easily fixable
bugs and put them in this thread (it's the first email so just go to
the link for this thread).  So if you have a little bit of free time
and want to help out why don't you try to tackle one of these bugs?

===============
`Snake farm`__
===============
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029853.html

The only reason I am mentioning this thread here is to help get the
word out about the `Snake Farm`_ ; hosted by Lysator_ and sponsored by
the `Python Business Forum`_ .  It is a compile farm that downloads
from CVS, compiles, and runs the test suite of Python daily.  It has
caught a bunch of bugs and has been a great help.

The majority of the thread was spent trying to get FreeBSD 4.4 to
compile Python and trying to work out a possible bug in pymalloc.

.. _Snake Farm: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~sfarmer/
.. _Lysator: http://www.lysator.liu.se/
.. _Python Business Forum: http://www.python-in-business.org

====================================
`David Goodger joins PEP editor`__
====================================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029866.html

David Goodger has somehow gotten suckered into becoming a PEP editor
(I suspect Barry Warsaw had something to do with this since he used to
do all of the PEP editing).  So you can all welcome David to his new
responsibility by flooding him with all of those PEPs you have lying
around and were not sure were good enough to submit.  =)

========================
`metaclass insanity`__
========================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029872.html

Continuation of http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-October/029795.html

Michael Hudson posted the question as to how to get writing
``__bases__`` for new-style classes to do the "right thing" since the
mro does not seem to be updated.  Kevin Jacob gave it a go but ran
into a bug.

Guido said that currently there is no way to touch the MRO from Python
code.  All of that info is stored in the tp_mro slot in the object's C
representation and is stored as a tuple whose members are expected to
be either types or classic classes.  Guido said he would accept a
patch for assigning to the mro if a check was included to make sure
the previously mentioned constraint was maintained.  He also said he
would probably accept a patch that allowed for assignable
``__bases__`` and writing ``__name__`` .

Michael Hudson commented about the difficulty of all of these patches.
 One thing that came up was the connection between ``__bases__`` and
``__base__`` and how assignment to ``__base__`` should not be taken
lightly; Guido commented that "the old and new base must be layout
compatible, exactly like for assignment to __class__".

Guido later pointed out that ``__base__`` becomes the built-in type
that you derive from; whether it be object, list, dict, etc.  It was
agreed that ``__base__`` shouldn't be writable.

The point was made that nestable classes are not picklable since only
thing at the top level of a module can be pickled.  Guido said he
considered this a flaw although he couldn't think of why someone would
want to embed a class within a class or a function.  This spawned
comments on how to deal with this.  It seemed the best solution was to
change ``__name__`` for the inner class to a fully dotted name (e.g.
``X.Y.__name__ = "X.Y"``) and then make a simple change to either
``pickle`` or ``getattr()``.  It was eventually agreed upon that
setting ``__name__`` to the full dotted name of the class was the best
solution and it was filed as `bug #633930`_ .

As part of trying to give Guido good examples of why nested classes
are good (the best attempt was Walter Dorwald in an email at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029906.html
that elicited a "that's cool" comment from Guido), the idea of having
``__iter__`` contain a class definition that returned an instance of
that class came up.  That was shot down because of the performance hit
of dealing with the class definition on every call to ``__iter__``. 
But the idea of defining ``__iter__`` as a generator was pointed out
by Just van Rossum.  Doing that simplifies the code usually a good
amount since the generator handles all ``.next()`` calls and you just
need to have the generator stop when you want your iterator to stop. 
Apparently this is not a widely used idiom, so I am mentioning it here
since it is a great idea that I can personally attest to as being a
rather nice way to handle iterators.

.. _bug #633930: http://www.python.org/sf/633930

============================
`[#527371] sre bug/patch`__
============================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029936.html

I am mentioning this thread not because the bug is that big of a deal,
but because of the PEP that was brought up when dealing with the bug;
`PEP 291`_ .  This informational PEP, among other things, lists
modules that must be kept compatible with certain versions of Python;
in this case sre has to be kept compatible with Python 1.5.2.  Except
for sre, they are all packages that have made their way into the
library.  You might want to have a look at the list if you are hacking
on any packages in the stdlib.

.. _PEP 291: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0291.html

======================================================================
`Re: [snake-farm] test test_slice failed -- [9, 7, 5, 3, 1] == [0]`__
======================================================================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029941.html

Once again this is not to meant to mention directly what as discussed
in the thread but a point made.  The bug that was discovered was an
issue with 64-bit machines and the 32-bit limitation of lists and
slicing.  The 32-bit limit currently is hard-coded into the C code. 
Obviously some people would like to see this changed.

Neal Norwitz laid down a rough outline on how one could go about
changing this at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029953.html
.  Guido then made a pronouncement later stating that he is willing to
break binary compatibility once for Python 2.3 or 2.4 to get this
done.  He also mentioned some other things to make sure to do.

As of this writing no one has stepped forward to take this on.

==============================
`Reindenting unicodedata.c`__
==============================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/029997.html

While doing some work on `Modules/unicodedata.c`_ , Martin v. Loewis
noticed that the indentation style didn't follow `PEP 7`_ and he
wondered if it would be okay to re-indent the file.  This brought up
two points.

One was that PEP 7 was not stringently followed.  The PEP says to "Use
single-tab indents, where a tab is worth 8 spaces".  Now that goes
against Python coding style where you are supposed to use 4-space
indents.  So the question of whether one should still use the tab
style in new C code came up.  Guido said he wished new C code would,
but for files he doesn't touch very often he doesn't feel he can
enforce it.  Barry and Martin came up with an Emacs "local variables"
stanza for the bottom of any file that uses a non-PEP style which can
be found at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030067.html
.  But following the PEP is still the "officially" supported style. 
But you should try to follow PEP 7 for all new C code and PEP 8 for
Python code.

The other point was when to re-indent.  It was agreed upon to only do
that when a major change in the code was occuring.  And when you do
re-indent, do it as a separate check-in for CVS.

.. _Modules/unicodedata.c:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/python/dist/src/Modules/unicodedata.c
.. _PEP 7: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0007.html

=============================
`Printing and __unicode__`__
=============================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030098.html

Martin v. Loewis brought up a point made by Henry Thompson on c.l.py
asking why printing ignores ``__unicode__``.  Martin thought it
shouldn't and listed a bunch of options on how to make printing work
with ``__unicode__``.  The winner was to have "A file indicates
"unicode-awareness" somehow. For a Unicode-aware file, it tries
``__unicode__``, ``__str__``, and ``__repr__``, in order".  The agreed
solution was to add an ``.encoding`` attribute.  This attribute can be
set to None when the stream is in Unicode and never converts to a
byte-stream.

But then M.A. Lemburg chimed in.  He was fine with the addition of the
``.encoding``; "this attribute is already available on stream objects
created with codecs.open()".  What he didn't like was having
``.encoding`` set to None mean the stream would accept Unicode. 
Martin asked then if ``StringIO`` should have ``.encoding``.

MAL replied that "``StringIO`` should be considered a non-Unicode
aware stream, so it should not implement .encoding".  He thought that
if someone wanted ``StringIO`` to be Unicode-aware they could use "the
tools in codecs.py [since they] can be used for this (basically by
doing the same kind of wrapping as ``codecs.open()`` does)".  But then
Martin pointed out that StringIO is already Unicode-aware.

This debate continued between MAL, Martin, and Guido.  But then Guido
just said he gave up since the current behavior was relied upon too
much.

===================
`Adopting Optik`__
===================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030108.html

Splinter threads:
	- `Re: [getopt-sig] Adopting Optik
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030154.html>`__
	- `Re: Adopting Optik
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030189.html>`__
	- `Fw: [Python-Dev] Adopting Optik
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030165.html>`__
	- `[getopt-sig] Re: [Python-Dev] Adopting Optik
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030179.html>`__

Guido sent an email saying that he would like to get Python 2.3a out
the door by X-mas.  This means trying to come up with a new name for
Optik_ , Greg Ward's command-line options parser.  The complaint about
the current name is that it's too cute.  Guido started it by
suggesting the name ``options``.

Peter Funk brought up two things.  One was that Docutils already used
the module under its Optik name.  To this Guido responded that they
could just change the name in the code.  Peter also said that Greg
liked ``OptionsParser``.  There was also the point that module names
are preferred to be short and lowercase.

Ka-Ping Yee and myself brought up the point that ``options`` is very
generic.  Guido agreed with this point while also mentioning that many
people already have their own modules named options.py.  He then
suggested ``optlib`` since "It's short, un-cute, and follows the \*lib
pattern used all over the Python stdlib".  Greg Ward liked this
suggestion.

I personally suggested ``ArgParser``, trying to get a tie-in for
sys.argv.  Greg Ewing built off of this and suggested ``argvparse``,
similar to ``urlparse``.  David Ascher preferred ``argparse`` since
"The v is archaic and so silent it fades away =)".  David Abrahams
disagreed, stating how the "v" deals with any ambiguity.  David
Abrahams also said he would vote for ``argvparse`` to break a tie.

Ka-Ping Yee suggested ``cmdline`` and ``cmdopts``.  David Abrahams
liked both.

Steve Holden built off of Guido's ``optlib`` and pushed for
``optionlib``.

Raymond Hettinger threw ``OptionParser`` into the ring.

But then Guido asked for a call to votes between ``optlib`` and
``argvparse``.  I tallied the votes at one point with it kind of split
between them.  Then Guido announced that ``optparse`` won (and no,
that is not a typo).

.. _Optik: http://optik.sf.net/

===========================
`Killing off bdist_dumb`__
===========================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030139.html

Splinter threads:
	- `RE: [Distutils] Killing off bdist_dumb
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030153.html>`__
	- `E: [Distutils] Killing off bdist_dumb
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030219.html>`__

A.M. Kuchling asked if anyone would mind if bdist_dumb was removed
from distutils (the conversation also happened with `distutils-sig`_
).  Apparently it is rather broken in terms of the paths of the files
because it makes them all relative.  M.A. Lemburg, though, spoke up
stating that he uses bdist_dumb.  It still wasn't fully resolved as of
this writing.

The point of being able to build bdist_wininst on non-Windows
platforms came up during this discussion as well.  It was decided to
move the binary files needed for bdist_wininst into CVS (now filed as
`bug #638595`_ ).

.. _distutils-sig: http://www.python.org/sigs/distutils-sig/
.. _bug #638595: http://www.python.org/sf/638595

===============================================
`Python interface to attribute descriptors`__
===============================================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030118.html

Splinter threads:
	- `Python interface to attribute descriptors 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030213.html>`__

Paul Dubois decided to cause himself some grief and attempt to
comprehend the miracle that is descriptors (more info can be found in
the `2.2.2 What's New`_ doc and in `PEP 252`_).  He was wondering if
there was more documentation than the signatures of the functions for
the C API.  He also wanted to know if there was a way to play with
them in the Python world since all of his attempts fell short of them
being "first-class citizen from Python".

Guido admitted that the docs were lacking.  He then asked for some
help in writing the docs.  He responded to Paul's second question by
saying that he thought it should work as long as you avoided classic
classes.

Thanks to Guido saying that is should work, Paul realized that he
misread the PEP.  To be nice he emailed out an example of how a
descriptor could know where it came from at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030141.html
.  Phillip Ebey also chimed in on how to write a metaclass that said
the name of the descriptor at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030213.html
.

.. _2.2.2 What's New:
http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.2/whatsnew/sect-rellinks.html#SECTION000320000000000000000
.. _PEP 252: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0252.html

==============================
`IDLE local scope cleanup`__
==============================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-November/030124.html

Patrick O'Brien (author of PyCrust_ ) wondered how IDLE managed to
keep its local scope so clean once it finished launching.  Guido said
that IDLE (or at least the GRPC version which Patrick O'Brien believes
stands for Generalized Remote Procedure Call) runs the shell in a
subprocess that is careful not to pollute the namespace.

Patrick thanked Guido and then presented his real question: how to
handle not polluting the namespace with a way getting around a
pickling issue.  He "used to just pass a regular dictionary to
code.InteractiveInterpreter, which worked well enough", but there was
an issue with pickling.  So then he tried passing
``sys.modules['__main__'].__dict__``, which worked but cluttered the
namespace.

Guido's response: "Remove the clutter".  Guido said that this would
most likely require a minimalistic main program that bootstrapped
using ``__import__('run').main()`` which would run the code without
adding to the namespace.

.. _PyCrust: http://www.orbtech.com/wiki/PyCrust



From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov  9 02:42:18 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 07:42:18 GMT
Subject: Questions about tuple?
References: <mailman.1036801694.17667.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u%2z9.12700$XO.545851@news2.tin.it>

Mindy wrote:

> Hey, given a tuple t(a,b), is there any function in
> Python that I can get a, b individually from t?
> Actually, I have a list whose element is tuples. Say:
> 
> tuple_list = [(1,'a'),(3,'b'),(2,'l'),(8,'p')]
> 
> Then I want to get two lists from this tuple_list. The
> first list contains the first elements in the tuple of
> the tuple_list.
> 
> first_list = [1,3,2,8]
> 
> And the second list contains all the second elements,
> also maintaining the original order as in tuple_list.
> 
> second_list = ['a','b','l','p']
> 
> So how to get this easily? Thanks!

Probably easiest is with list comprehensions:

first_list = [ first for first, second in tuple_list ]
second_list = [ second for first, second in tuple_list ]


One alternative (more verbose, maybe even simpler)
is with an explicit loop:

first_list = []
second_list = []
for first, second in tuple_list:
    first_list.append(first)
    second_list.append(second)


Yet another (more concise, maybe a bit obscure) hinges
on built-in function zip and the *args construct for
passing all items of a sequence as individual positional
parameters:

first_list, second_list = map(list, zip(*tuple_list))

zip(*tuple_list) would by nature return a list of
TUPLES, i.e. (1, 3, 2, 8) and ('a', 'b', 'l', 'p'),
rather than of lists as you wish -- which is why we
map the built-in callable named `list` (costructor
of the list type) over the result to build a list
from each of the tuples.  A similar idea can also
use list comprehensions rather than map, of course:

first_list, second_list = [list(x) for x in zip(*tuple_list)]


As you can see, we're alas quite a way from our ideal
of "one, and preferably only one, obvious way" to perform
a task.  Personally, I'd choose the very first idiom I
suggested here, to repeat:

first_list = [ first for first, second in tuple_list ]
second_list = [ second for first, second in tuple_list ]

on the grounds that it IS obvious -- indeed, utterly
simple.  "Do the simplest thing that can possibly work"...


Alex



From txo at cs.nott.ac.uk  Thu Nov 14 08:19:39 2002
From: txo at cs.nott.ac.uk (Turhan Ozen)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:19:39 +0000
Subject: Installing dislin (scientific data plotting software)
References: <3DD12A29.8B34ED2C@cs.nott.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DD3A2EB.FEBF498F@cs.nott.ac.uk>

I tried both Dennis's and Kaleb's advise, but I am afraid dislin still has some internal problem in the readme.exe file. It wouldn't work. But Eric's advise has worked. You can't uninstall dislin. So I just deleted the present dislin folder (c:\program files\dislin). And reinstalled in the default folder. But I couldn't import it into python afterwards. So don't forget to restart your computer in order to get dislin recognised by python.

But Eric how did you get it work with pythonwin? As marco has experienced too I still can  use it with only IDLE.

Turhan



From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Nov 12 05:31:30 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:31:30 -0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in 
news:m2y98g82li.fsf at python.net:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
>> You might be right.  Maybe the question to ask first, then, is
>> "Is there any reason why the Python documentation *should not*
>> be converted to DocBook?"
> 
> Well, people who contribute to the docs currently know latex, more 
or
> less by defintion.  I have to know latex professionally and have no
> interest in learning docbook, so if the documentation format 
changes,
> I'm that much less likely/able to contribute to it.
> 
> This is obviously a chicken-and-egg sort of answer, but it's 
probably
> a valid point.


Is there a source form example of the py docs,
and perhaps a statement of what is required of the processing?
E.g. Martin said earlier:

The current Python documentation contains a lot of Python-specific
mark-up, which is important for all processing (the LaTeX 
environments
classdesc, funcdesc, methoddesc, memberdesc, excdesc, datadesc,
productionlist, ctypedesc, cvardesc, seealso, ...; the TeX commands
\versionadded, \versionchanged, \function, \var, \class, \exception,
\cfunction, \optional, \deprecated, \platform, \seerfc, ...)

Any new format should preserve this markup, which still being easy to
edit and process. DocBook does not clearly meet these needs.




  Just to take a look at producing docbook from that,
and to see if XML/XSLT/XSL-FO processing chain could do the job 
please?

regards DaveP


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Nov 18 08:40:24 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:40:24 +0100
Subject: Tkinter/Canvas question
References: <369fc45d.0211171427.5c651c7e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <araqof$lps$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 17 Nov 2002 14:27:15 -0800, benson123456 at yahoo.com (Benson Ngai)
wrote:

<Some intriguing code fragments and accompanying questions>

Instead of answering the questions - which would involve unknotting a
very complicated knot - I just ran your code across my mental Java
refactoring tool (of course the translation to Python is implicit) and
present the output to be further analyzed by the community. For the
record : I do not claim to understand anything about this code and
deny any association with it, except that I have tried to refactor it.

I hope it will be of some value, at least it resizes the frames as you
asked about.

Regards,
	Anton.

import random
from Tkinter import *

class disks:

  def __init__(self,randomize=0): #constructor
    if randomize:   #if 1 do
      self.array=self.Rand(0,7,4) 
    else :                        
      self.array=[0,0,0,0]

  def Rand(self,low,high,num): 
    a=[]                  #starting at low to hight [low,high)
    for i in range(num):
      x=random.random()
      a.append(int(x*(high-low)+low))
    a.reverse()
    return a

  def SetDisk(self,a):
    self.array = a
    
  def CheckBlackPeg(self,other):
    black,sa,oa=0,self.array,other.array
    for n in range(3,-1,-1):
     if sa[n]== oa[n]:
        black+=1
    return black

  def CheckWhitePeg(self,other):
    white,sa=0,self.array
    tempArray=other.array[:] 
    for i in range(4):
      for j in range(4):
        if sa[i]==tempArray[j]:
          white+=1
          tempArray[j]=9 # so we won't count that same color twice
    black=self.CheckBlackPeg(other)
    return white-black
          
 
#my display class
class guessFrame:
      def __init__(self,frameNum,parentFrame,
            fourGuessesArray,hidden):
        #constructor
        self.myGuessFrame=Frame(parentFrame,relief=GROOVE,
            borderwidth=1)
        self.black=0
        self.white=0
        self.frameNum=frameNum
        self.guessArray=fourGuessesArray 
        self.hidden = hidden

      def Draw(self):
        self.myLabel = Label(self.myGuessFrame,
            text=str(self.frameNum))
        self.myLabel.grid(row=self.frameNum,column=1)#,sticky=NS)
        print self.frameNum
        self.myColorSquare=[None]*4
        for i in range(4):
          temp=Canvas(self.myGuessFrame,width = 25)
          self.myColorSquare[i]=temp
        myColorCodeArray=self.getGuessColor()
        for i in range(4):#draw the guess color 
            mcs = self.myColorSquare[i]
            mcs.create_rectangle(0,0,25,25,fill=myColorCodeArray[i])
            mcs.grid(row=5+self.frameNum,column=i+2,sticky=NSEW)
        #Check For feedback
        userGuess=disks(0)
        userGuess.SetDisk(self.guessArray)
        hidden = self.hidden
        blackFeedback=hidden.CheckBlackPeg(userGuess)
        whiteFeedback=hidden.CheckWhitePeg(userGuess)
        self.myFeedbackSquare=[None]*4
        mfbs = self.myFeedbackSquare
        for i in range(4):
          mfbs[i] = Canvas(self.myGuessFrame,width = 25)
        i=0
        while blackFeedback > 0:
          #black
          fbs = mfbs[i]
          fbs.create_rectangle(0,0,10,10,fill='#000000')
          fbs.grid(row=5+self.frameNum,column=6+i)#,sticky=NSEW)
          i+=1
          blackFeedback-=1
        while whiteFeedback > 0:
          #White
          fbs = mfbs[i]
          fbs.create_rectangle(0,0,10,10,fill='#ffffff')
          fbs.grid(row=5+self.frameNum,column=6+i)#,sticky=NSEW)
          i+=1
          whiteFeedback-=1
        while i<4:
          fbs = mfbs[i]
          fbs.create_rectangle(0,0,10,10,fill='#808080')
          fbs.grid(row=5+self.frameNum,column=6+i)#,sticky=NSEW)
          i+=1

      def getGuessColor(self):# return an Array of color for print out
        sga = self.guessArray
        guessColor=[9,9,9,9]
        #black,cyan,green,magenta,red,white,yellow,gray
        colors = ['#000000','#00ffff','#00ff00','#ff00ff','#ff0000',
                '#ffffff','#ffff00',9,9,'#808080']
        for i in range(4):
            guessColor[i] = colors[sga[i]]
        return guessColor

def test():
    root=Tk()
    mainFrame=Frame(root)
    mainFrame.pack(fill = BOTH, expand = YES)
    testingArrays=[[1,0,2,3],[4,5,6,9],[4,5,6,9]]
    gfs=[]
    h = 80
    hidden=disks()
    n = len(testingArrays)
    for i in range(n):
        gf=guessFrame(i+1,mainFrame,testingArrays[i],hidden)
        gf.myGuessFrame.place(y=i*h,height=h)
        gf.Draw()
        gfs.append(gf)
    root.geometry("%ix%i" %(n*h,n*h))
    root.mainloop()

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()



From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 20 08:58:43 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:58:43 GMT
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net> <7h3zns4tpqr.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <1y5g2z6r.fsf@python.net> <7h3vg2stna5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <n0o41iux.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <nyMC9.31759$744.1175291@news1.tin.it>

Thomas Heller wrote:
  ...
> The systems at the university were much worse: a Amdahl Unix emulation
> running under CM/VMS (or was it CMS?) on IBM mainframes, used via
> TN3270 emulation on PCs.

A long time ago we used to call it CP/CMS, at least internally, but I'm 
pretty sure the commercial name always was VM/CMS -- Virtual Machine / 
Conversational Monitor System -- you could also run any other operating
system under the virtual machines provided by VM, not just the bare-bones
control program (CP) that in turn propped up the interactive CMS part, but
I doubt many did except in some areas of Research.

VMS was a completely different operating system from Digital Equipment
(aka Digital aka DEC later bought out by Compaq lately merged with HP
which was once known as Hewlett-Packard -- it IS a bit headspinning...),
without any virtual-machine concept (alas) but arguably more usable for
typical interactive timesharing work.  Arguably.  I developed my thesis
first with APL on a VM/CMS machine, later with VMS; then I moved to
IBM research and worked with VM/CMS again; then again later on with
VMS after leaving IBM...  Except in the neat APL interactive environment, 
or in powerful editors such as Xedit [no relation to the xedit of X/11...], 
where VM/CMS shined, I would be hard put to say... except that Unix was so 
heads-and-shoulders above the lot of them that I grasped at it as my 
environment of choice, each and every time I possibly could, whatever the 
strategic choices of my employer[s].  E.g., for a while at IBM I managed
to wheedle as my personal workstation a little-known box called the
"IBM Instruments 9000" -- thus becoming one of the few people in history
who ever even KNEW that IBM ever manufactured a Motorola 68000 box
running Unix.  Even back when the shell choice was between halfway-sane 
sh without any history mechanism, or weird csh with rudimental history
mechanisms, such items as pipes, the filesystem, and lightweight process
concept (compared to VMS _or_ CMS), made Unix still a stand-out...


Alex



From justin at iago.org  Fri Nov  8 13:05:28 2002
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:05:28 -0500
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
In-Reply-To: <3b7ccd914b.simon@satin.callan.demon.co.uk> (Simon Callan's
 message of "Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:45:02 GMT")
References: <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list@python.org>
	<3b7ccd914b.simon@satin.callan.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <x7vg38lyxj.fsf@ra.iago.org>

Simon Callan <simon at callan.demon.co.uk> writes:

> If you are feeling cruel, you could give them a library that has both
> exposed internals, and proper interface functions, and then halfway
> through the course, change the library so that anyone who doesn't use
> the correct interface finds that subtle bugs have been introduced into
> their code.

I've seen courses that used this tactic to (with some success) teach
the value of obeying interfaces and abstractions.

-Justin

 




From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 23 11:24:22 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 16:24:22 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3DDD711D.2000802@skippinet.com.au> <arl9cs$k6b$0@216.39.172.122> <3dde5012$0$4491$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3dde5e18$0$22192$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <THED9.3061$hg1.6331@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <aroa3m$vac$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 05:51:47 GMT, Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote:
>Grant Edwards wrote:
>> In article <3dde5012$0$4491$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> 
>>>>I don't have win32all, but don't you need to have the
>>>>OVERLAPPED struct persist as well? Isn't the event slot there
>>>>also used asynchronously?
>>>
>>>Yes, the OVERLAPPED struct has to be persistent.  I've thought
>>>about using that as storage for the comm event mask value, but
>>>then we've got to add some sort of accessor function to
>>>retreive it later.  The advantantage of using a 4-byte buffer
>>>is that the semantics stay more similar to both the Win32
>>>usage, and the way that data buffers work for overlapped
>>>read/write operations:
>>>
>>>
>>>   rc,mask = WaitCommEvent(handle,overlapped)
>>>   rc = WaitForSingleObject(overlapped.hevent)
>>>   whatHappened = int(mask)
>> 
>> 
>> I should have mentioned that in the non-overlapped case, the
>> returned mask value would be an integer (same as it is now).
>> That way the only change is to the overlapped usage.
>
>Actually, I don't mind the idea of attaching it to the overlapped 
>object.  We already have the concept of attaching an object to an 
>overlapped structure, so adding support for a generic "flags" 32 bit 
>value wouldn't hurt, and 2 bytes per Python-allocated overlapped 
>structure wont kill anyone.
>
>Might be overkill if this is the only case we come across, but it 
>doesn't change any semantics.  ie, the code would look like:
>
>    rc,mask = WaitCommEvent(handle,overlapped)
>    rc = WaitForSingleObject(overlapped.hevent)
>    whatHappened = overlapped.flags
>
>
>Also much easier for me to code ;)  Would only work for overlapped 
>objects created via Python, but I think that is reasonable.  If a non 
>Python overlapped structure is used, we pass the address of a static 
>variable to ensure no one ever crashes.
>
>Sound reasonable?
>
Under what conditions would a non-Python overlapped structure be used?
Would a static restrict some kind of thread usage unacceptably?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From mwh at python.net  Sun Nov 10 08:26:22 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:26:22 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:

> On 8 Nov 2002 04:54:01 -0800, oleg_inconnu at myrealbox.com (Oleg) wrote:
> 
> >I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
> >between Python and Common Lisp (
> >http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> >wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
> 
> A computer program has to determine what a certain input means before
> it can produce output.
> 
> In the years when Lisp was becoming popular the first task -
> interpreting input - was considered to be hard and the other task -
> producing output - was considered to be easy. People *expected* source
> code to be difficult to read for humans. 

Did you know that s-exps (i.e. the paren heavy Lisp we know today) was
intended to be a temporary syntax, and that John McCarthy intended to
develop a more familiar syntax for Lisp?  Somehow he never did --
maybe because it turned out to be a bad idea?

> Nowadays some people think that interpreting a given message is
> trivial compared to the problem of producing the right output. If the
> computer has to decide that we must have meant something else in order
> to be able to produce the right output: So be it.
> 
> As a consequence we can use a more human like language to communicate
> with the computer.

With all the ambiguities that make human languages such fun?  Shudder.

Have you used AppleScript?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Darned confusing, unless you have that magic ingredient coffee, of
  which I can pay you Tuesday for a couple pounds of extra-special
  grind today.                           -- John Mitchell, 11 Jan 1999


From martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi  Thu Nov 14 17:04:29 2002
From: martti.halminen at kolumbus.fi (Martti Halminen)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:04:29 +0200
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <7h3smy5zj8k.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqulgk$qj$2@wheel2.two14.net> <7h37kfgz782.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <ar0mhk$1ir4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3DD41DED.E8C961C6@kolumbus.fi>

Donn Cave wrote:
> 
> Quoth Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>:
> ...
> | Consider this code from Python's getpass module:
> |
> |     old = termios.tcgetattr(fd)     # a copy to save
> |     new = old[:]
> |
> |     new[3] = new[3] & ~termios.ECHO # 3 == 'lflags'
> |     try:
> |         termios.tcsetattr(fd, termios.TCSADRAIN, new)
> |         passwd = _raw_input(prompt)
> |     finally:
> |         termios.tcsetattr(fd, termios.TCSADRAIN, old)
> |
> | In CL if you wanted to do this sort of thing often you'd write
> | something like (making up interface names as I go):
> |
> | (defmacro with-invisible-input (fd &body body)
> |   (let ((old-state (gensym))
> |         (new-state (gensym)
> |         (fd-var (gensym)))
> |     `(let* ((,old-state (termios:tcgetattr ,fd))
> |             (,new-state (termios:copy-state ,old-state))
> |             (,fd-var ,fd))
> |        (setf (termios:lflags ,new-state)
> |              (logior (termios:lflags ,new-state) termios:echo))
> |        (termios:tcsetattr ,fd-var ,new-state)
> |        (unwind-protect
> |          ,body
> |          (termios:tcsetattr ,fd-var ,old-state))))))
> |
> | which isn't exactly pretty, but now the above Python becomes:
> |
> | (with-invisible-input
> |   (funcall input-func prompt))
> |
> | which *is* better.
> 
> I don't get it - how is this different from an ordinary function?
> Like,
> 
>   def invisibly(tty, fun):
>       ... termios stuff
>       try:
>           result = fun()
>       finally:
>           ... termios stuff
>       return result
> 
>   def getpass(prompt):
>       def myrawread(prompt=prompt):
>           return _raw_read(prompt)
>       return invisibly(0, myrawread)
> 
> I was thinking that with- was going to be a Pascal-like thing where
> some class instance scope was made `local'.


This may have been a little too restricted example. The real strength of
the macro approach (at least if you used , at body instead of ,body in the
macro) is that you are not restricted to a single function call, the
body may be an arbitrarily long piece of program code.

--


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 15 08:26:33 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 14:26:33 +0100
Subject: changing unix password with python
References: <mailman.1037362462.2283.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3r8dnklpy.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Justin Ryan <jryan at rackspace.com> writes:

> Is there a python module that would facilitate changing a unix system
> user's password (preferably via PAM rather than directly modifying
> /etc/shadow)?

Google is your friend. Asking for "Python PAM" reveals

http://www.tummy.com/Software/PyPam/index.html

If you find you need to make changes, don't forget to contribute them
back to Rob Riggs.

Regards,
Martin


From maney at pobox.com  Sat Nov 23 22:17:53 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 03:17:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Inheritance And Instantiation Of Instance Variables
References: <3de00ca8@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <arpgd1$9vo$2@wheel2.two14.net>

Ben C <b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u> wrote:
> if I create a class such as
> 
> class Blah:
>    def __init__(self, parameterA, parameterB)
>        self.parameterA = parameterA
>        self.parameterB = parameterB
> 
> and then I inherit from that class is it really necessary to initialise the
> argumnets to the inherited class twice ? ie.
> 
> class NewBlah(Blah):
> 
>    def __init__(self, parameterA, parameterB)
>        Blah.__init__(self, parameterA, parameterB)

It certainly isn't necessary to initialize them twice, but your NewBlah
constructor isn't doing that the way you show it here.  Python doesn't
magically invoke base class methods, not even constructor methods, so
you can initialize things once by invoking the base constructor or by
rolling your own initialization code.  Or you can leave the class an
empty husk and figure out how to make that work, if it's worthwhile to
make intialization lazy.


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Nov 15 17:27:38 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:27:38 -0600
Subject: Permutations algoritm?
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E0A83F@mail.hebmex.com> (sismex01@hebmex.com's
 message of "Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:51:04 -0600")
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E0A83F@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <m2k7jeh3j9.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "sismex01" == sismex01  <sismex01 at hebmex.com> writes:

    sismex01> Of a set of different items 'S', obtain all distinct
    sismex01> subsets of 'n' items where all items in the subset are
    sismex01> different.

If you want to move beyond tutorial examples, and speed becomes a
factor, you can take a look at probstat, which is a python extension
module that does combinations and permutations in C.

http://probstat.sourceforge.net/

import probstat

li = [1,2,3,4]
li2 = ['Peter', 'Paul', 'Mary', 'Bill']
for (item) in probstat.Permutation(li):
  print item

for (item) in probstat.Combination(li2, 2):
  print item


Cheers,
John Hunter



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Thu Nov  7 17:38:20 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:38:20 -0800
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list@python.org> <slrnasj332.v3h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <j465v93g42.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnasl7n2.d1h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <s0qeqa.no3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Jon Ribbens fed this fish to the penguins on Thursday 07 November 2002 
09:12 am:


> But that *won't work* on later versions of Python! It means I will
> have a line in my code which I know will suddenly stop working at some
> point in the future and I will have to make a new release and everyone
> will have to upgrade their copies of my module just because I put in
> code which I knew wasn't going to work.

        Well, can't you make use of something like sys.version_info to 
determine which version you are running under, and use the form of 
assignment appropriate to that version when defining your constant?

import sys

pver = sys.version_info

if pver[0] == 2:        #2.x line
        if pver[1] == 2:        #2.2
                do assignment
        elif pver[2] == 3:      #2.3 expected
                do assignment
...

        Might need to store the assignments as strings, and do an eval/exec 
type operation on just the correct string if Python tries to interpret 
the assignments in false branches...

-- 
--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From leafnode-usenet at schabi.de  Fri Nov 29 07:45:01 2002
From: leafnode-usenet at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:45:01 +0100
Subject: Garbage Collection Explanation
Message-ID: <20021129134501.1a294a88.leafnode-usenet@schabi.de>

Hi,

I remember to have read an article on the web that explained the Python
2.X Garbage collector in detail, especially the Idea with the
generations.

Now I tried to google a bit, and found some shorter explanations and
mails from list archives, but didn't find the article I remembered
again.

Does some have an URL at hands?

Thanks,
Markus

-- 
Markus Schaber - http://www.schabi.de/

Schabi's Flohmarkt unter http://schabi.de/flohmarkt


From shengyen.ece90g at nctu.edu.tw  Wed Nov 20 11:02:57 2002
From: shengyen.ece90g at nctu.edu.tw (Sheng-Yen Ho)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:02:57 +0800
Subject: How to Install mod_python-2.7.8 in freebsd 4.4 Stable
Message-ID: <argbtn$7hp$1@ccreader.nctu.edu.tw>

First, I just make install in /usr/ports/www/mod_python/
it is terminated with error message
"Error: Python installation in /usr/local uses threads. mod_python requires
it to be built without threads. Please deinstall & rebuild/reinstall Python
with WITHOUT_THREADS set.
*** Error code 1"
So..I deinstall Python and reinstall in the following steps
 #make configure --without-threads
 #make install
I'm sure --without-threads have been set in config.status
I try to make install mod_python-2.7.8 again,but the same Error appeared.
anything I missed??




From pu at myRealBox.com  Sun Nov  3 05:58:09 2002
From: pu at myRealBox.com (pu)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:58:09 +0100
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on OS/390 V2R10
References: <3dc40ef1_1@news.vo.lu> <us8rhmg4f2iac1@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3dc50045_2@news.vo.lu>

> If it runs under USS, then it's callable from JCL. Check your JCL
> manual for the method of running Posix programs. I seriously
> doubt that it would be accessable from CICS, and I wonder
> why anyone would want to?

Well, I could imagine writing a CICS program / transaction that's written in
Python, same as for REXX; but basically you are right.

> If someone wants to _hire_ me to do the port I'll send you my
> email address privately.

I am currently doing a small study to see how and if Python might be used by
our three teams (Windows, AIX and OS/390). I doubt that it will be an option
for the latter, the just adore REXX, especially under TSO, for scripting.

Anyway, I'll let this newsgroup know if porting REXX to OS/390 is an option.
Thanks for your answer.
-Patrick




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 11 17:49:24 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:49:24 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 11)
Message-ID: <ut0cvkc58tese0@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "These days, I know that I blindly hit 'd' whenever I see
'***ANYTHING IN CAPS***', since it tends to be related to some very
interesting financial transaction involving some African country.  So
welcome to c.l.p, and I bet you a repost without the spam-triggering
ALLCAPS will get you some good answers."  Fernando P?rez

"No other language [than Python] is more successful in vanishing behind
the problem."  Christian Tismer


Articles and threads
    A long discussion on the relative benefits of Python and Lisp,
    including several variants of Lisp such as Scheme and Logo reveals
    some insights into the similarities and differences:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.1036969814.9278.python-list%40python.org

    A typical question about how to parse hierarchical structures with
    regular expressions (something which regular expressions are not
    well suited for) results in some insights:
	http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=2259b0e2.0211060659.30631e4f%40posting.google.com

    This article shows how quickly discovered defects get fixed and
    checked in after they're found:
	http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=m2u1ivlxkh.fsf%40python.net

    A very long, detailed discussion of Parrot emphasizes security
    issues for a parrot daemon and language-agnosticism:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3dccfcbb%240%24200%24edfadb0f%40dread11.news.tele.dk

    Donnal Walter asks a question about exactly what the PSF license
    means for non-PSF organizations:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=918bc22f.0211092028.59e3a4ad%40posting.google.com

    Jon Ribbens asks a question about how to create large portable
    constants in light of PEP 237 and the fact that hex/oct constants
    greater than sys.maxint will return positive, not negative values,
    in Python 2.4 and later:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=s0qeqa.no3.ln%40beastie.ix.netcom.com

Software
    Per Gummedal announces the port of Python 2.2.2 to AS/400:
        http://home.no.net/pgummeda/

    SalStat is a rapid statistics package for the analysis of
    scientific package, using Python wxPython:
        http://salstat.sunsite.dk/

    The ctypes module supports the creation and manipulation of C data
    types in Python. These can then be passed to C functions loaded
    from dynamic link libraries.
	http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes.html

    eyeD3 is a Python module that reads both version 1 and version 2
    ID3 tags and MP3 headers:
	http://freshmeat.net/projects/eyed3/?topic_id=120%2C912

    Slideshow is a portable SDL-based presentation framework:
        http://www.alobbs.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=slideshow&file=index

Resources
    Volume 3 of the Python Journal is available, concentrating on
    "practical tasks":  map display, text filtering, Python embedding,
    and dynamic Web site generation:
        http://pythonjournal.cognizor.com/

    Patrick O'Brien has written an article titled "Python persistence
    management":
        http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pypers.html

    Richard Jones proposes PEP 301, detailing some extensions to the
    Distutils packaging system:
	http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0301.html


========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
        http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/summaries/
        http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

    The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
    what AI can generate
        http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

    Tenth International Python Conference 
        http://www.python10.org            

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 11 04:45:50 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:45:50 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it>

Ian Bicking wrote:

> On Sun, 2002-11-10 at 09:27, Alex Martelli wrote:
>> Surprise, surprise: the language that's always itself, always well
>> designed, is popular; the languages that anybody can change arbitrarily
>> aren't.
> 
> I think you underestimate the ability to mess with Python.  You can make
> weird things in Python by using the magic methods, things which act in

You can, but there is generally little motivation: you cannot add a
case statement, nor a repeat/until, nor a mandatory declaration for
all variables, nor braces as block delimiters, nor just about any of
the other zillion better-done-without things that people are SO keen
and used to from other languages.  (You can't even add the few ones
that WOULD be worthwhile, such as case-insensitivity [ducks for
cover]...).

So, I'm not underestimating the _possibility_ of doing havoc with
Python -- I'm just saying that the kind of havoc you can wreck with
reasonable ease is basically not the kind that newbie crave.  Macros,
on the other hand, are tailor-made for playing exactly that kind
of havoc;-).

Hmmm, on a slightly different tack, this DOES help me articulate one
source of my slight reluctance to get really deep into Ruby: Ruby
gives the programmer just a little bit MORE dynamicity/flexibility/
power than Python, by messing with the fundamentals of built-ins and
passing "unevaluated code blocks" to methods (that's how you do
iterators in Ruby, while Python's iterators are utterly different) --
although that's still not a full-fledged macro system, I may be
subconsciously worrying that the little extra power IS just enough
to get into "newbie cravings" territory.  Maybe I'm worrying too
much, mind you; however, I hope that sharing this reflection can
help you see my overall position that more power and flexibility
need NOT be a good thing for a language's acceptance and actual
productivity-gain for production programming.  When the power is
enough to entice many users to develop their own dialects, in order
to satisfy their cravings for syntax sugar resembling their old
habits, then I definitely think it's NOT a good thing any more.


> unexpected ways.  It *is* true that these aren't syntactic additions,
> but Lisp doesn't have significant syntactic additions either -- macros
> change the semantics, but the ()'s are still there and are always parsed
> the same way.  The semantics of execution just get messed with.

If the macros are powerful enough to let you have infix notation,
then it just can't be true that there aren't significant syntactic
additions, that the parentheses are still there, etc.  Infix comes
with the concept of precedence, so that e.g. 
    a + b * c + d
parses utterly differently from
    a * b + c * d
"Precedence" IS a significant syntactic addition, and lets you AVOID
parentheses -- if you have to fully parenthesize the above cases,
you can't really claim with honesty that you have infix-notation (in
some technical way it might be true, but it's not what the infix
notation lovers MEAN;-).


> It may be true that Lisp fails to respond to users needs because macros
> are a good excuse.  Prefix notation may not be good, but many people

Actually that's the ONLY reason I'd like to have macros in Python --
fobbing off the unceasing stream of requests for silly things such
as repeat/until etc etc by showing macros for them, rather than having
to try to explain to newbies that if Python had all the silly little
extras that SOME newbie wants, it wouldn't be Python any more, but
rather a huge blob of a language bereft of architectural unity of
vision, of simplicity, of leanness.

But I guess the discipline of having to explain this over and over
is good for me, just as the hurdle of having to GET it is good for
the newbies.  So, my occasional whimsical wish for a way to "fob
off" such unappropriate requests for changes to Python is to be
taken as no more than just that, a whim;-).


Alex



From donn at drizzle.com  Wed Nov 20 23:03:09 2002
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 04:03:09 -0000
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <arfgtg$fhj$1@Fourier.suse.de> <7kf83526.fsf@python.net> <95959723.0211201844.7ce3458@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1037851388.29783@yasure>

Quoth hansgeunsmeyer at earthlink.net (hg):
...
| As far as I understand it, it doesn't really matter _what_ the thread
| state is that you swap into the current state before you do the
| callback, as long as it is _some_ valid thread state (not NULL). So,
| before you do the callback, at any moment when you're in the main
| Python thread, you could store a pointer to the then current
| threadstate.

Why are there multiple thread states, then?  If we might as well just
use the existing state of any thread, it seems like we are put to a
lot of trouble to hunt one up.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov 27 13:52:41 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:52:41 -0800
Subject: *args and **kwargs
References: <uLUE9.5581$kz4.355569@news2.west.cox.net> <87d6orq0oz.fsf@uiuc.edu> <_S7F9.14648$kz4.657484@news2.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3DE51479.30F0088@alcyone.com>

Dan wrote:

> thanks for the answer specifically for "args".  Still I don't quite
> understand the Python syntax.
> 
> *something = encapsulate into a set   ??
> **something = encapsulate into a Dictionary??

Experiment for yourself:

>>> def f(*args, **keywords):
...  print args
...  print keywords
... 
>>> f(1, 2, 3)
(1, 2, 3)
{}
>>> f('a', 'b', 'c', 'd')
('a', 'b', 'c', 'd')
{}
>>> f((10, 20)) # note that's one argument that's a tuple
((10, 20),)
{}
>>> f(a=1, b=2, c=3)
()
{'a': 1, 'c': 3, 'b': 2}

*args specifies a tuple of the remaining (non-keyword) arguments;
**keywords specifies a dictionary of the remaining keyword arguments.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Don't want you to leave / And I don't want to leave you
\__/ Chante Moore
    CatCam / http://www.catcam.com/
 What do your pets do all day while you're at work?  Find out.


From anandpillai6 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  5 04:03:49 2002
From: anandpillai6 at yahoo.com (Anand)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 01:03:49 -0800
Subject: Draw rectangle on a Window DC
References: <41c203e.0210210601.704098ba@posting.google.com> <d5r1pa.404.ln@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <41c203e.0211050103.29ca6c64@posting.google.com>

Thanks Dennis. That technique worked.
But since I use a XOR operator the outline of the rectangle
does not have a unique color, but depends on the pixel color at (x,y).


Anand
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<d5r1pa.404.ln at ix.netcom.com>...
> Anand fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 21 October 2002 07:01 am:
> 
> > Hi
> > 
> >     I need to draw a rectangle when the user selects an area
> > over a wxPanel containing a wxStaticBitmap. The rectangle shoud change
> > in size according to the dragging of the mouse.
> >
>         I have no idea of the features of wx* but...
>  
> >  How do I write the event processing code so that I dont have many
> > rectangles overlapping each other, but just one that keeps changing
> > size ?
> >
>         The general technique for "rubber band" lines is to draw with an 
> exclusive-or operator. Then, before updating position, you redraw on 
> the old coordinates.
>  
> > The code I have right now,
> > 
> >  if event.Dragging():
> >                   
>         somewhere in here you need to redraw/erase the old box, THEN get the 
> new
> 
> >                     self.endpt = event.GetPosition()
> >                     w = (self.endpt.x - self.stpt.x) # stpt is stored
> >                     in earlier
> >                                                      # left mouse
> >                                                      # click.
> 
> --  
>  > ============================================================== <
>  >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
>  >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
>  > ============================================================== <
>  >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
>  >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 11 13:49:00 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:49:00 -0700
Subject: [OT] Cameras (was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?)
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqgka6$t8j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqh2bo$7ti$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <aqh745$1iv$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqhata$ctr$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <aqos3v$haf$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqou2s$37k$3@peabody.colorado.edu>

Frodo Morris wrote:

>> P&S cameras are ok, but their control is fairly limited to none. Some (like
>> the Oly Stylus Epic) have excellent optics, others have crappy optics
>> (pretty much all zoom cameras, you just can't make a decent zoom of that
>> size, physics gets in the way).
> 
> Yes you can - the lenses are called telephoto (because the focal planes
> lie outside the optics - a common misconception is that a 'telephoto' is
> any old zoom lens).  I agree you'd probably get something akin to the
> fisheye effect around the edges, but it'd still work :-)

What I meant is: you can't make a decent long focal length lens (say ~200mm 
focal length) that reasonably fits the body size of a P&S camera. And by 
decent I mean an f/2.8 lens with negligible aberrations, distortion and 
vignetting. There's a reason why all pro glass is the size it is :)

cheers,

f.


From graik at web.de  Thu Nov  7 07:29:37 2002
From: graik at web.de (Raik Gruenberg)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:29:37 +0100
Subject: segmentation fault when unpickling an object in another Python
 instance
References: <3DC96AAD.9090503@web.de> <eAWdnTH219An7FSgXTWcqA@comcast.com> <3DC99AF6.2030906@web.de> <7h3lm45zktm.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DCA5CB1.6060004@web.de>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> Raik Gruenberg <graik at web.de> writes:
> 
> 
>>It's not cPickle specific - I got the same segmentation fault when
>>using normal pickle.
>>
>>Getting a minimum example will take some time and it can get quite
>>long. I can switch off the error by deleting a line in the constructor
>>of the pickled object...
>>
>>Summary so far, I can not unpickle my object if:
>>- The constructor of this object called (before pickling) a certain
>>method of an internally referenced object
>>- this internal object encapsulates an Numeric array
>>- the certain method deletes parts of this array (via Numeric.compress )
>>
>>Rings a bell for someone??
> 
> 
> I'd like to apply my SEP[1] field and say this is likely to be a bug
> in Numeric.  Not sure though.  Can you try just pickling & unpickling
> a Numeric.array that has had bits chopped out of it with .compress()?

You are right, sort of. The problem is narrowed down: It, basically, 
seems impossible to unpickle a Numeric array of dictionaries (objects in 
general?) in another interpreter instance. I, nevertheless, submitted 
the bug report to the (more active) Python not the Numpy project. You 
shouldn't get a segfault, after all...

Well, I guess you could forward it to the Numpy team on grounds of [1] :)

Raik
> 
> Cheers,
> M.
> [1] Someone Else's Problem: I'm a developer on the Python project, but
>     not NumPy :)
> 




From goldbb2 at earthlink.net  Tue Nov  5 02:20:53 2002
From: goldbb2 at earthlink.net (Benjamin Goldberg)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 02:20:53 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
Message-ID: <3DC77155.83075923@earthlink.net>

Daniel Pfeiffer wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> this morning it struck me that it would be nice to have Parrot not
> only run Perl 6 and similar byte code, but that any of the common
> interpreted languages be compiled to this same byte code.

Only just this morning?  I take it that parrot itself only came to your
attention recently, since that concept has been with the VM since it's
inception.

> Then no matter whether running a Perl 6, Python, Ruby, Tcl maybe even
> bash script the same interpreter library would be used.  Then likely
> it would already be in memory speeding up start time.

The difficult task is compiling those languages into parrot bytecode.

This may not be horrible if those languages have their own bytecode,
which can then be translated into parrot bytecode.  As an example, there
already exists a perl script which translates java .class files into
parrot bytecode.

For other languages, a compiler would actually be needed -- eg, for
bash.

> And this would also ease cross language module/library inclusion. 
> Imagine instantiating some Python class from Perl!

Ya mean the same way that you can, using Jython, instantiate Python
classes from Java and vice-versa? :)

> Apache would essentially have a mod_parrot.

Well, obviously it would.

> Maybe, if this can be tested very hard, we'd even have a Parrot kernel
> module for all Unices supporting that.  Then exec() could perform
> compiled scripts right away, like machine code :-)

Or, your whatever_2_parrot compiler insert an appropriate #! line at the
beginning, pointing to the parrot VM -- this is much simpler, as it
takes advantage of an existing mechanism.

-- 
my $n = 2; print +(split //, 'e,4c3H r ktulrnsJ2tPaeh'
."\n1oa! er")[map $n = ($n * 24 + 30) % 31, (42) x 26]


From heafnerj at spam.vnet.net  Sun Nov 24 15:15:25 2002
From: heafnerj at spam.vnet.net (Joe Heafner)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:15:25 -0600
Subject: passing objects to functions
Message-ID: <B-ycnWLZVsDArnygXTWcow@ctc.net>

I have the following Python code written using VPython:

from visual import *

def derivative(t,x,xp,xpp):
  xmu = 1.407645794e16
  r = mag(x)
  r3 = r**3
  xpp[0] = -xmu*x[0]/r3
  xpp[1] = -xmu*x[1]/r3
  xpp[2] = -xmu*x[2]/r3

t = 2451545.0
x=vector(1.,1.,1.)
xdot=vector(1.,1.,1.)
xmu = 1.407645794e16
#xddot = -xmu*x/(mag(x)**3)
#print xddot
xddot=vector(0,0,0)

x=vector(2.,2.,2.)
derivative(t,x,xdot,xddot)

print xddot

When executed, I get the expected result for xddot. When I modify the code 
to read:

from visual import *

def derivative(t,x,xp,xpp):
  xmu = 1.407645794e16
  r = mag(x)
  r3 = r**3
  #xpp[0] = -xmu*x[0]/r3
  #xpp[1] = -xmu*x[1]/r3
  #xpp[2] = -xmu*x[2]/r3
  xpp = -xmu*x/r3

t = 2451545.0
x=vector(1.,1.,1.)
xdot=vector(1.,1.,1.)
xmu = 1.407645794e16
#xddot = -xmu*x/(mag(x)**3)
#print xddot
#xddot=vector(0,0,0)

x=vector(2.,2.,2.)
derivative(t,x,xdot,xddot)

print xddot

I get the error message:

[localhost:~] joe% python testrk4.py
Visual-2002-07-22
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "testrk4.py", line 22, in ?
derivative(t,x,xdot,xddot)
NameError: name 'xddot' is not defined
[localhost:~] joe%

Why does this not work when simply writing

xddot = -xmu*x/(mag(x)**3)

outside my function works perfectly? I'm lost here, and Lutz and Ascher's 
book has not helped me, most probably because I don't know where to look 
for the problem I'm having. I'm trying to port some QuickBASIC numerical 
analysis code and I need  the capability to pass a vector (a VPython 
vector, not an ordinary array) into a function, potentially modify that
vector's components, and then have the same vector accessible outside the 
function. I can make it work with arrays but not with vectors. I'd 
appreciate any help.

JH



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov  5 09:51:13 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:51:13 -0600 
Subject: How does Python handle probing to see if a file already exist
	s?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302C309CA@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Christopher R. Culver [mailto:Kricxjo.neniuspamajxo at yahoo.com]
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I've just begun learning Python after already getting pretty 
> proficient in C. However, I'm having a problem with a simple
> copying program. Ideally, the program would check to see if
> the destination already exists and prompt the user. In this
> this would be as easy as saying:
> 
> probe_destination = fopen(/usr/bin/foo, 'r')
> if (probe_destination)
> {
> some code here;
> }
> 
> However, translating that directly into Python doesn't work because
> if Python can't find a file to open, it doesn't just return 0, it
> gives an error and exits. How can I write this functionality in Python 
> so that it returns 0 and continues, or does Python have a totally 
> different way of handling this problem than C?
> 
> Christopher Culver
>

Others have talked about the goodness of using try/except, I'll
say to use os.access(), which is precisely for what you're asking,
if you can read or write a file.

-- check if writeable --

import os
if os.access("some-filename", os.W_OK):
   # neat, I can write to the file.
   ...

-- check if readable --

import os
if os.access("some-filename", os.R_OK):
   # OK, I can read from the file.
   ...

-- check if executable --

import os
if os.access("some-filename", os.X_OK):
   # OK, I can execute this file.
   ...

-- check existance --

import os
if os.access("some-filename", os.F_OK):
   # File exists, but I don't know what I can do with it.
   ...


You can do a bitwise OR on the flags R_OK, W_OK and X_OK to
check combined permissions, R_OK|W_OK would check for read
and write permission on the same file.

Exception handling is neat and all, but sometimes it just isn't
the right way to only check for some condition.  I mean, you
don't blindly walk into a door to see if it's locked or not.

:-)

-gustavo




From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Nov 20 01:41:10 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:41:10 -0800
Subject: popen / batchfile / environment variables
In-Reply-To: <r6qera.em3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>; from wlfraed@ix.netcom.com on Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 05:57:47PM -0800
References: <are0ca$bm$07$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1037734951.19283.python-list@python.org> <r6qera.em3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20021119224110.A17634@ActiveState.com>

> > 
> > 1. run this:
> >     path_to\vcvars32.bat && devenv solution_file.sln /rebuild
> >     "Release"
> >
>         Does that really work in Windows?

It works with the cmd.exe shell/console/whatever-you-call-it on
WinNT/2000/XP. I doubt that it works with command.com on Win9x/ME.

Trent


-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From martian_bob at portalofevil.com  Wed Nov 20 18:17:24 2002
From: martian_bob at portalofevil.com (R. Arens)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 15:17:24 -0800
Subject: Simple sort for lists?
Message-ID: <4f5748b4.0211201517.2de69de0@posting.google.com>

Hi, I'm using os.path.walk to walk through directories and join
ordered files in the directories into one large file. Problem is,
os.path.walk doesn't process the files in order, due to the way
os.path.walk sends the filenames to the visit function. Does Python
provide a method to sort the list of filenames provided by
os.path.walk?


From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 19 06:34:42 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:34:42 GMT
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211151030200.643-100000@ns0.tbye.com> <mailman.1037382746.348.python-list@python.org> <c6katugug6oqtqjarqlpf6gptlfnqpkg9a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h3adk5x0co.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Manuel M. Garcia <mgarcia at cole-switches.com> writes:

> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:50:39 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> (edit)
> >waiting-for-someone-to-ask-for-class-comprehensions-ly y'rs  - tim
> 
> NewClass = [WrapInsideProperty(attribute) for attribute in OldClass]
> 
> would be nice.

Not quite sure what that means, but I bet you can do it with a
metaclass...

> FastClass = [ImplementAsCExtension(method) for method in SlowClass if
> UsedAlotAndRunsTooSlow(method)]
> 
> would be very nice.

That one seems trickier :)

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  It's actually a corruption of "starling".  They used to be carried.
  Since they weighed a full pound (hence the name), they had to be
  carried by two starlings in tandem, with a line between them.
                 -- Alan J Rosenthal explains "Pounds Sterling" on asr


From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Wed Nov 20 15:45:56 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 20:45:56 GMT
Subject: Permuting data
References: <3DDBE5D6.20501@domain.invalid>
Message-ID: <slrnatnt18.16k.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <3DDBE5D6.20501 at domain.invalid>, user at domain.invalid wrote:
> Hi,
> I have encountered a following problem: I need to permute randomly 200 
> lines of data  100 times... Meaning that each iteration, data lines are 
> in the random order. What would be the proper way to do it?

One way is to use the 'shuffle' function in from the 'random' module:

>>> from random import shuffle
>>> l = [3,4,5,6]
>>> shuffle(l)
>>> l
[5, 4, 3, 6]
>>> shuffle(l)
>>> l
[6, 3, 4, 5]

HTH,
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From mis6 at pitt.edu  Fri Nov 22 09:32:05 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 06:32:05 -0800
Subject: [Boost.Python] Printed documentation available?
References: <6152d0a0.0211211547.2afdb8df@posting.google.com> <mailman.1037925875.5545.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211220632.15c534ee@posting.google.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1037925875.5545.python-list at python.org>...
> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Hanks <thanks200 at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
>     Tom> I hope the subject says it all.  I'd like a printout of the
>     Tom> Boost.Python documentation (found at
>     Tom> http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html) for my daily
>     Tom> train trips.
> 
>     Tom> Unfortunately for me the available documentation is not
>     Tom> printer-friendly. Instead it is browser-friendly, organised
>     Tom> into an html tree 3-4 pages deep.
> 
>     Tom> I've googled for a couple of hours but can't find a more
>     Tom> suitably formatted document.
> 
>     Tom> Can someone recommend a way to get a printable version?
> 
> If you have wget and htmldoc handly, it's not too difficult to make a
> nice printed version (eg pdf).  It may take 15 or 20 minutes of work
> though.  
> 
> First cd into a tmp dir and wget the docs:
> 
>  wget -rl3 -np http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html
> 
> 
> Then make a list of *.html files in the proper order, the best way to
> do this is to mirror the order they are presented in index.html
> 
> cd www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/ and run a python script like:
> 
> 
> import re
> rgx = re.compile('.*<a href="(.*?)">.*')
> 
> for line in file('index.html'):
>     m = rgx.match(line)
>     if m: print m.group(1)
> 
> 
> which prints the links.  Run the script in the tutorial dir but prefix
> 'tutorial' to the output.  
> 
> 
> Take the assembled file names and put them in a python script which
> calls htmldoc
> 
> from os import system
> from string import join
> import urllib
> 
> chapters=(
>     'tutorial/index.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/quickstart.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/building_hello_world.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/exposing_classes.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/constructors.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/class_data_members.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/class_properties.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/inheritance.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/class_virtual_functions.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/class_operators_special_functions.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/functions.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/call_policies.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/default_arguments.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/object_interface.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/basic_interface.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/derived_object_types.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/extracting_c___objects.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/enums.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/iterators.html',
>     'tutorial/doc/exception_translation.html',
>     'building.html',
>     'v2/reference.html',
>     'v2/configuration.html',
>     'v2/platforms.html',
>     'v2/definitions.html',
>     'v2/faq.html',
>     'v2/progress_reports.html',
>     'v2/acknowledgments.html',
> )
> 
> guideName = 'manual.pdf'
>     
> command = 'htmldoc --webpage -f %s %s' % (guideName , ' '.join(chapters))
> 
> rc=system(command)
> if rc==0:
>     print "wrote %s" % guideName
> else:
>     print "failed to create %s" % guideName
>         
>         
>         
> This creates a nice, high quality pdf, with images included!
> 
> John Hunter

It would be nice if Tools/webchecker/websucker.py could do that automatically!

--
Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Nov 14 10:25:33 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:25:33 -0500
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list@python.org> <c8476101.0211140642.29540b96@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DD3C06D.61AAB36D@engcorp.com>

Arivazhagan wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim
> 
> I assume you're coming from C++. - Thats true.
> 
> Hi
> 
> My requirements here.
> 
> we have three python files names a.py, b.py and c.py.
> In a.py we are calling a global function in c.py which creates objects
> of a class in c.py depending on the parameters passed. These objects
> are created in the scope of c.py. But i need to happen in a.py without
> using the module name.
> so I thought that if we inline the function call so that it expands we
> can access that object without referring to the module name.
> 
> Is it possible? Is there some other methods to achieve this in python?

Certainly there is, but you haven't explained clearly enough what you
really want.  It sounds like you could simply be returning those objects
from a function defined in c.py and called from a.py.

My guess is you are mucking around with global variables at module 
scope level and getting yourself into a lot of trouble.

Can you explain *why* you need to refer to objects defined in another
module without referring to that module's name?  Or can you explain
why these objects are being created as globals instead of just 
returning them from a function?

-Peter


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Nov 19 14:38:31 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:38:31 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <44d4f61c.0211181708.465f5838@posting.google.com> <3DDA7385.2020609@nyc.rr.com> <eppstein-C621D0.09384719112002@news.service.uci.edu> <y1wC9.3258$jt3.1116@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-3A0E1A.11383119112002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <y1wC9.3258$jt3.1116 at newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>,
 Steven Rumbalski <srumbalski at prodigy.net> wrote:

> David Eppstein wrote:
> 
> >> The numbers I hear are that CL runs on average 20% slower than C.
> > 
> > This is after how many decades of Lisp compiler development?
> > 
> Sheesh.  How long have C compilers been around?

Not as long as Lisp by a long shot, and C was designed to be easy to 
compile.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 25 12:32:59 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:32:59 GMT
Subject: stupid Python/database connection
References: <4cce07d5.0211250918.5c97a929@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f9tE9.53574$744.1962046@news1.tin.it>

animeshk wrote:

> This is a really stupid question, I know.
> 
> I am trying to write an app that might connect to an Interbase
> database or an Oracle database, depending on a configuration file.
> 
> I have seen some Python code for interfacing with a database, and it
> seems to depend on the import statement.  import some-lib-or-another
> to access one kind of database, import some-other-lib-or-another to
> access another kind of database.  After the import, it's a matter of
> calling that database type's "connect" statement.
> 
> So . . . how can the decision of what-database-to-use be defferred to
> runtime?  When writing, say, a BDE app in Delphi, it would be a simple
> matter of what alias to use.  How is this done in Python?

The general Pythonic way to do that would be, e.g.:

# read the config file and find out what DB to use
# setting e.g. variable kindofdb appropriately

if kindofdb == 'interbase':
    import interbaseinterfacemodule as dbmodule
    connection = dbmodule.connect("whatever goes here")
elif kindofdb == 'oracle'
    import oracleinterfacemodule as dbmodule
    connection = dbmodule.connect("whatever else goes here instead")
else:
    raise RuntimeError, "Don't know how to connect to DB kind %r" % kindofdb


In this case, you may want to wrap things better than this, since
differences in SQL dialects and so on do most often need to be smoothed
away (sigh).  But if conditional import and connect calls are all
you want, that's one way you can get them.


Alex



From a at b.c  Wed Nov  6 15:57:15 2002
From: a at b.c (Michael Bakkemo)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 20:57:15 GMT
Subject: tkinter bug? tk bug?
References: <apvaej$9ha$0@216.39.145.102> <18f7875.0211021745.636774fe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqbvnb$moh$0@216.39.145.102>

After having reproduced the behavior on 3 different machines (2 win2k
professional, 1 XP),
my suspicion is TK on the windows platform. I don't suppose there is anyone
out there running on windows that could independently verify the behavior
before I go charging off in that direction?




From heafnerj at spam.vnet.net  Tue Nov 19 20:20:15 2002
From: heafnerj at spam.vnet.net (Joe Heafner)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:20:15 -0600
Subject: static variables?
Message-ID: <InCdnbV-jZTSfkegXTWcrg@ctc.net>

Hi.
I'm brand new to Python. Is there a way to have static variables in a 
function? By "static", I mean the variable's value is preserved between 
function invocations.

JH



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Fri Nov 15 04:03:06 2002
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:03:06 +1000 (est)
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
In-Reply-To: <ar0cso$iua$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0211151850340.52032-100000@tenring.andymac.org>

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Anton Vredegoor wrote:

> It's not that I couldn't get past the sourceforge barrier if I would
> like to do so but having to identify myself using a 128 bits security
> key conflicts with my - maybe naive - notion of not looking a given
> horse in the mouth.

I may be misunderstanding here (not having read the whole thread), but as
I recall, there are 2 "security key" issues with SF that you might be
talking about:-
1) SSL (https) logins;
2) SSH keys.

In 1), I don't believe you are "identifying" yourself - this is about
encrypting the channel, and thus protecting your login password.
Currently the maximum size of the SSL encryption key is 128 bits.  Only
the host (webserver) end has an "identity" in this context.

In 2), these keys are required to be able to use encrypted terminal
sessions, and secure the CVS update process.  These do have an "identity".

If you want to post bugs or documentation patches to the SF tracker, only
1) is ever needed, and you don't have to upload any SSH keys at all.

If you wish to use a browser that doesn't have SSL support, then you do
have a problem.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From barbot at shfj.cea.fr  Fri Nov 15 05:04:52 2002
From: barbot at shfj.cea.fr (Julien Barbot)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 11:04:52 +0100
Subject: Reverse dictionnary
Message-ID: <nkz4rajw3ln.fsf@pinel.shfj.cea.fr>

Hi,
Does "reverse dictionnary" exists in python ?
I would like to get a value with the key, and to get the key with the value
For example:
d1 = {1:"str1", 2:"str2" }

d1.getvalue(1) give me "str1"
and 
g1.getkey("str1") give me 1

With the result given as fast as normal dictionnaries.

If this does not exists, I will simply do two dictionnaries, one with
the integer as keys and the strings as values and the other one with
the strings as keys and the intergers as values.


Thanks for your help.
-- 
Julien Barbot


From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Nov 14 12:29:24 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 17:29:24 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <7h3smy5zj8k.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqulgk$qj$2@wheel2.two14.net> <7h37kfgz782.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <ar0mhk$1ir4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>:
...
| Consider this code from Python's getpass module:
|
|     old = termios.tcgetattr(fd)     # a copy to save
|     new = old[:]
|
|     new[3] = new[3] & ~termios.ECHO # 3 == 'lflags'
|     try:
|         termios.tcsetattr(fd, termios.TCSADRAIN, new)
|         passwd = _raw_input(prompt)
|     finally:
|         termios.tcsetattr(fd, termios.TCSADRAIN, old)
|
| In CL if you wanted to do this sort of thing often you'd write
| something like (making up interface names as I go):
|
| (defmacro with-invisible-input (fd &body body)
|   (let ((old-state (gensym))
|         (new-state (gensym)
|         (fd-var (gensym)))
|     `(let* ((,old-state (termios:tcgetattr ,fd))
|             (,new-state (termios:copy-state ,old-state))
|             (,fd-var ,fd))
|        (setf (termios:lflags ,new-state) 
|              (logior (termios:lflags ,new-state) termios:echo))
|        (termios:tcsetattr ,fd-var ,new-state)
|        (unwind-protect
|          ,body
|          (termios:tcsetattr ,fd-var ,old-state))))))
|
| which isn't exactly pretty, but now the above Python becomes:
|
| (with-invisible-input 
|   (funcall input-func prompt))
|
| which *is* better.

I don't get it - how is this different from an ordinary function?
Like,

  def invisibly(tty, fun):
      ... termios stuff
      try:
          result = fun()
      finally:
          ... termios stuff
      return result

  def getpass(prompt):
      def myrawread(prompt=prompt):
          return _raw_read(prompt)
      return invisibly(0, myrawread)

I was thinking that with- was going to be a Pascal-like thing where
some class instance scope was made `local'.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From ods at strana.ru  Tue Nov 12 07:27:43 2002
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:27:43 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Cyrillic letters in 'Entry' widget
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0211121518540.14221-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0211121525440.14246-100000@localhost.localdomain>

DSO> MvL> >>> import Tkinter
DSO> MvL> >>> t=Tkinter.Entry()
DSO> MvL> >>> t.pack()
DSO> MvL> >>> t.insert(0,u'\N{CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER ZHE}\u0437')
DSO> MvL> >>>
DSO> MvL>
DSO> MvL> works fine for me. What does that give for you?
DSO>
DSO> This helps for output only.  To recieve input you need
DSO> patching
DSO> Tkinter: http://prefnews.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19

Here is also explanation in archive:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/idle-dev/2001-July/000515.html


-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]




From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Wed Nov 13 15:30:36 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 21:30:36 +0100
Subject: another cgi / database concern (SQL vs. 'shelve')
References: <mailman.1037124918.32702.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <un0odjjpv.fsf@online.no>

"Stephen Aichele" <stephen at mochamail.com> writes:

> thanks to those who replied to may last questions here.  what a busy
> mailing list!
> 
> So the next topic:  For the site I'm building, I'll need to access
> user stats and log user input rather frequently.  The amount of data
> to be stored for any given user is not significant, but there will be
> a lot of accessing of database files.  
> 
> I have no experience with SQL, but I do have experience using shelve
> for persistent storage of data.  I'd like to get some exposure to
> SQL, but I'm not sure if it is overkill for what I'm doing -
> considerations would be the learning curve of SQL and whether or not
> continual access of and writing to a db file using 'shelve' would be
> wise.  
> 
> any suggestions greatly appreciated.

I am just going to make a common sense type suggestion. If you know
shelve, use it, but be aware that you have to protect shelves from
concurrent writing/reading. If I remember right, it's okay to have
several readers simultaneously, but a writer needs exclusive access
(no readers and no writers).

A "proper" RDBMS will take care of concurrency issues for you, so if
you think the concurrency problem will be tricky use an RDBMS (SQL
server, Oracle, PostgreSQL). If you go with shelves and got the
concurrency problem sorted out, script some typical scenarios for use
and time them, if the performance with shelves is good enough, you
don't need SQL yet (Mind you, you are not guaranteed in any way to get
enhanced performance using SQL).
 

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From ark at research.att.com  Wed Nov 13 16:08:54 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:08:54 GMT
Subject: Arrays?
References: <3dd2a4fc$0$28317$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <slrnat5p1i.f3.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <yu99adkdtbx5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Wojtek> Dnia Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:15:28 -0000, e-tones.co.uk napisa?(a):
>> So im  looking to creat a list? If so, how do I make it 2 dimensional?

>>> a=[[]]*2
>>> a
>>> [[], []]
>>> 

Wojtek> Is that what you wanted?

I doubt it:

>>> a = [[]]*2
>>> a
[[], []]
>>> a[0].append(42)
>>> a
[[42], [42]]

And also:

>>> a = [[0, 0]]*2  
>>> a
[[0, 0], [0, 0]]
>>> a[0][0] = "Hello"
>>> a[1][1] = "world"
>>> a
[['Hello', 'world'], ['Hello', 'world']]
>>> a[0][1]
'world'
>>> a[1][0]
'Hello'

If you want something that acts like a two-dimensional array, you must
take pains to ensure that the higher-level elements refer to distinct
objects.  That is part of the reason I asked about the ultimate purpose
of the code.

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From p.g at figu.no  Sun Nov 10 08:06:23 2002
From: p.g at figu.no (Per Gummedal)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:06:23 +0100
Subject: ANN: Python 2.2.2 for AS/400.
Message-ID: <169542132500.20021110140623@figu.no>

Python 2.2.2 for AS/400 is now available:

       http://home.no.net/pgummeda

This release also includes a DB-API v2.0 module called db2.

--
Per Gummedal, Figu Data AS
p.g at figu.no




From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov 17 17:32:23 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:32:23 GMT
Subject: Get Stdout from external script startet through python
References: <ar5aog$53i$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <XNUB9.28260$Yw.1407119@news2.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

Christian Rapp wrote:

> I need to start an external script from inside python. This works just

So you're presumably using os.system?

> fine. The called script produces some output on StandardOut, that I need
> within the python-script. How do I get this Output into python?
> Any suggestions? Please answer!

import os

flob = os.popen("whatever and args")
thedata = flob.read()
flob.close()


Alex



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 27 14:04:51 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 19:04:51 GMT
Subject: the real .pyc file
References: <mailman.1038246454.8932.python-list@python.org> <3DE45656.AFCBD01B@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <as350j$851$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:21:26 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, I was bored.. ;-)
>> 
>> int
>> a=1//1;main=lambda:1
>> +1;
>> #define a
>> int
>> main()
>> {a//a:a};import sys;printf=sys.stdout.write
>> printf("Hello world!\n");a//a;{
>> }
>
>Nice! :-)  I think I can safely say this is the first truly
>obfuscated Python code that I've seen.  The funny thing is
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[1] 
>that the obfuscation primarily hides the fact that it even
>*is* Python, because you can "of course" tell what it does
>just by looking at it (if you know C).
>
>I had to run it to be sure it would even execute as Python.  
>(Using a syntax highlighting editor sure helps readability 
>though, versus reading it in plain ASCII in Netscape.)
>

[1] It's also obfuscated C ;-)

[11:03] C:\pywk\junk>type candpy.py
int
a=1//1;main=lambda:1
+1;
#define a
int
main()
{a//a:a};import sys;printf=sys.stdout.write
printf("Hello world!\n");a//a;{
}

[11:04] C:\pywk\junk>candpy.py
Hello world!

==[1]========================================
[11:04] C:\pywk\junk>cl /nologo /Tc candpy.py
candpy.py

[11:04] C:\pywk\junk>candpy.exe
Hello world!

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From imbosol at vt.edu  Sun Nov 10 19:02:35 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:02:35 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Pascal Costanza wrote:
[snip]
> 
> Now, let's go on - "funcall" takes a function and applies it to the 
> remaining arguments.
> 
> > (funcall '+ 1 1 1)
> 3
> 
> > (funcall '* 2 3)
> 6

You mean (funcall #'+ 1 1 1) and (funcall #'* 2 3).


> ...and so on. Now here is another nice macro.
> 
> (defmacro apply-operators (op-list arg-list)
>     `(loop for op in ',op-list
>            do (format t " ~A: ~A~%" op (funcall op , at arg-list))))

It is better to do this as a function.  As written, you cannot pass a
in built-up list of operators or numbers, and for this reason, it is
considered bad style.


[snip]
> So here is an application.
> 
> > (apply-operators (+ * min max) (5 4 6 3 7))
>  +: 25
>  *: 2520
>  min: 3
>  max: 7
> 
> You can always take a look at the code a specific macro produces.
> 
> > (macroexpand-1 '(apply-operators (+ * min max) (5 4 6 3 7)))
> (loop for op in '(+ * min max)
>       do (format t " ~A: ~A~%" op (funcall op 5 4 6 3 7)))

I really don't think this is the best example for an advantage of Lisp
syntax, if that's what you were trying to do, since it's trivial in
Python also.

def apply_operators(oplist,arglist)
    for op in oplist:
        print "%s: %s" % (op.__name__, reduce(op,arglist))


The only technical advantage of Lisp's syntax I can think of is that
it matches the way the compiler sees it, which is why it's so
convenient to write macros (which are more or less extensions of the
compiler).


-- 
CARL BANKS



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 13:01:30 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:01:30 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <87wun7tt8k.fsf@key.localdomain> <3DDD0445.4000502@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <_b9D9.37701$744.1354613@news1.tin.it>

Kenny Tilton wrote:

> Patrick W wrote:
> 
>> Not trying to twist your arm but in case you weren't aware of it, Qt
>> (and PyQt) is just as portable as Tkinter (on platforms that matter)
> 
> Is this a reference to it not being available for the Mac? Tiny share,
> yes, but it matters. Kinda like CL. :)

http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/mac/


>> Perhaps worth a look if you haven't checked it out already.
> 
> Thx for the lead. I gather the non-commercial Qt is pretty decent? Is
> that just licensing/support/add-ons? ie, It is otherwise current with
> commercial Qt? (The Qt site wanted my life story before it would take me
> to the pricing page. <g>)

If you release under GPL on free OS's, you can freely use a Qt
version that is, indeed, "pretty decent".

If you release under other licenses (not sure about other non-GPL
open source licenses) or for proprietary OS's then I think the
non-commercial versions you're allowed to use are variously crippled.
Basically, if you and/or OS vendors are profiting, trolltech
wants a slice of the action, too;-).


Alex



From wayne at tbnets.com  Sat Nov  2 21:44:49 2002
From: wayne at tbnets.com (Wayne R)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:44:49 -0500
Subject: Dict -> Dict -> List -> List data structure help.
Message-ID: <002e01c282e3$0c8bc9b0$02010a0a@hackncodexp>

 I am trying to create a complex data structure and I can't seem to
figure out how to arrange the dict and list constructs.  Here's the
basic scheme.  

 Dictionary ->    Dictionary            -> List                   ->
List
 (Store #)        (Transaction #)      (Line # of transaction)
(Details of transaction line)
 (usually 1,2,3)  (six digit A-X,1-9)  (1-999)                   (Sku
number, description, extended price) 

 Any ideas greatly welcomed.

Wayne




From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Nov 10 22:35:30 2002
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:35:30 -0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <aqmj2e$k0g$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <3DCF2582.7040300@mindspring.com>

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
>>  jacek > python2.2
>>  Python 2.2.1 (#3, Jun  4 2002, 09:56:27)
>>  [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
>>  Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>  >>> import math
>>  >>> math.sqrt(-1)
>>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>  ValueError: math domain error
   ...
>>... perhaps Python was invented before math and rational and complex
>>numbers (yes, I *do* know Python has complex numbers, just FUDding in
>>your style, yes I *do* know that integer division is Python is being
>>fixed).

Fernando P?rez wrote:
> Indeed, Python's complex and rational number support is pretty lousy, and a 
> frequent source of frustration to me. I don't expect tensors or groups to be 
> basic data types of a language, but rational and complex numbers _should_ 
> have been there from day 1.

Just to point out for more causal readers, there is the 'cmath' library
for complex functions.

 >>> import cmath
 >>> cmath.sqrt(-1)
1j
 >>> cmath.acos(1.1)
0.44356825438511532j
 >>> cmath.asin(1+1j)
(0.66623943249251527+1.0612750619050355j)
 >>>

The reason for the seperation is that for most people in most cases,
having sqrt(-1) or acos(1.1) return a complex number is the wrong thing.
I know for me that's true.  And for those for which returning complex
is the right thing, Python supports that too.

					Andrew
					dalke at dalkescientific.com



From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Tue Nov 12 17:24:18 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:24:18 +0100
Subject: Search Engine
References: <pan.2002.11.11.19.55.24.880692.711@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <3dd180d9$0$54242$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>

Thomas Guettler schreef:

> Hi!
> 
> I need a search engine which can handle this
> kind of data:
> 
> {"1": #Object one
>   {"foo_attribute1": "my data",
>    "foo_attribute2": "foo bar, bla blu",
>    ...},
>  "2": #Object two
>   {"foo_attribute1": "bau",
>    "foo_attribute2": "next one",
>    ...
>   }
>  ...
> }
> 
> The attributes can contain several MByte of
> text. The text should be searchable.
> 
> There will be several thousand objects
> 
> I need the following API:
> 
>  search_engine.addObject(myObj)
> 
>  search_engine.search(
>       {
>        "foo_attribute1": "word1",
>        "foo_attribute2": "word2"
>       })
> 
>  search_engine.deleteObject(id="1")
> 
> 
> Up to now I have two possible solutions:
> 
>  1. Hack htdig to do the things I want to,
>     and add a python interface
> 
>  2. Use ZCatalog
> 
> What do you think? Has some experience with
> python-based searchengines?

In case you don't mind using jython, lucene will
do this easily.

Have fun,
Ype


email at xs4all.nl


From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 16:01:46 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:01:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <artvr3$cbe$2@wheel2.two14.net> <arvomp$1vh$1@verence.demon.co.uk> <as1mos$dkg$1@wheel2.two14.net> <as2gbf$203$1@verence.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <as3brq$ek5$2@wheel2.two14.net>

Paul Wright <-$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> My own personal feeling is that this is a moderately common error
> (though think I tend to make it more often in Python than in C, for some
> reason). It might be related to experience, but I also think some people
> just have a blind spot for that error (maybe those of us who grew up
> writing BBC BASIC :-).

It is certainly a nuisance when it's a new idea, especially if you have
been accustomed to write something else for the equality operator. 
Although I never did any formal counting, I'm very certain that I had
trouble with this confusion/typo *much* more frequently during those
times when I was doing a lot of work in some other language that
spelled equality "=" (and of course I'd get the "==" form as an error
in the other langauge as well).  Which isn't a retraction of my
statement that it has been overall a pretty rare error IME.  :-)


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Sun Nov 10 07:04:52 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 13:04:52 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

David Garamond <davegaramond at icqmail.com> writes:

> one sentence: "syntax matters." for people in denial, make it two:
> "yes it really does."

Yes, it really does. The point that most people find difficult to
grasp is that Lisp's syntax is one of its huge strengths. (If you[*]
do not know what I mean by this, but are prepared to have your mind
expanded, then you might want to give Lisp a try. If you do not know
what I mean and are tempted to follow up with comments about the
abundance of parentheses, then don't bother; such discussions are
invariably fruitless. If you already know what I mean ... great.)

> or, rephrased: indentation and "1+1" scare people less than
> parentheses and "(add 1 1)" or something like that.

Sigh ...

  jacek > clisp
     [large startup message elided]
  [1]> (+ 2 3)
  5

Recently, I wrote a number-crunching program in Lisp. A typical
function in which look something like this:

(defun Hpp (x s z)
  #i(sqrt(Vpp(x s z)-gamma)/(x^2+s^4) -
     exp(sin(Tpp(x s))/(2*b1(x s)))))

(Incidentally, Lisp's _syntax_ made it possible for me to write a
macro which automatically re-structures my numerical functions in a
way which makes the program run 17 times faster.)

> but perhaps if lisp were invented thousands of years ago

Perhaps you last looked at Lisp thousands of years ago ...

> before math and the plus (+) operator...

Continuing the clisp session from above:

  [2]> (/ 2 3)
  2/3
  [3]> (+ 1 2/3)
  5/3
  [4]> (sqrt -1)
  #C(0 1)

Hmm ...

  jacek > python2.2
  Python 2.2.1 (#3, Jun  4 2002, 09:56:27) 
  [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
  Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
  >>> import math
  >>> math.sqrt(-1)
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  ValueError: math domain error
  >>> 2/3
  0
  >>> 1 + 2/3
  1

... perhaps Python was invented before math and rational and complex
numbers (yes, I *do* know Python has complex numbers, just FUDding in
your style, yes I *do* know that integer division is Python is being
fixed).

Why, in my opinion, is Lisp less popular?  There are a number of
reasons, but the most significant is probably that most people hear a
lot of lies about lisp, before they ever get to hear any of the truth.

Lisp is a slow, interpreted, purely-functional language, in which the
only datatype is the list, it needs specialst hardware to run on, is
solely responsible for the failure of AI, and died over a decade
ago. Right?

(Just in case anyone doesn't get it, _everything_ in the previous
paragraph is a lie.)




[*] Anyone reading this, that is.


From boud at valdyas.org  Sun Nov  3 09:31:36 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 15:31:36 +0100
Subject: distutils adds a requirement on its own
Message-ID: <3dc534c0$0$85002$e4fe514c@dreader7.news.xs4all.nl>

If I include a script in my setup.py that has the line #!/usr/bin/env 
python, then distutils, when running python setup.py bdist_rpm, adds an 
extra requirement to the RPM, namely for /usr/local/bin/python.

Why does it do that? I've already added a neat requirement for
python >= 2.1 in the setup.cfg...

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Nov 15 08:20:01 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 08:20:01 -0500
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <ar2bqj$e5a$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
	<ar1buq$1ib4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<m2wunfh1y4.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
	<ar2bqj$e5a$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <oq3cq3dl6m.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Carl Banks]

> Paul Foley wrote:
> > On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:33:33 -0800, Russell E Owen wrote:
> > 
> >> On the other hand, I like zip just fine (though I lament the lack of an 
> >> unzip counterpart).
> > 
> > Eh?  Zip is its own inverse!

> Sure?

> >>> a = [(1,2,3,4),(5,6,7,8)]
> >>> zip(zip(a))
> [(((1, 2, 3, 4),),), (((5, 6, 7, 8),),)]

Paul was surely teasing you, at least a tiny bit.  A few stars are needed:

>>> a = [(1, 2, 3, 4), (5, 6, 7, 8)]
>>> zip(*zip(*a))
[(1, 2, 3, 4), (5, 6, 7, 8)]

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Fri Nov  8 23:49:12 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 20:49:12 -0800
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <844iqa.1m4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

engsol at teleport.com fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 08 November 
2002 07:48 pm:

> I've read the books, tried some code, and I still just don't get it.
> 
> If some kind soul can explain the (high level) process, I can figure
> out the details, I think.
> 
> What I want to do is call (or invoke) a C exe  from Python, and return
> the results to Python. Or pass values of some sort to the C exe, and
> again have Python trap the returned results. I'm a long way from the
> concept of shared variables. <grin>
> 
> The first stumbling block is that the books offer examples of C code
> which don't seem to have a main(). My compilers don't care for that
> too much. I took a quick look at SWIG, but to be honest, I didn't
> understand how to use it. Again, I need the high level concept.
> 
        There is no "main" because they aren't part of a stand-alone 
executable program. They become specialized libraries that Python can 
access using the normal "import module" syntax.

        If all you want to to access a separate program you might be 
interested in os.system(), or the variants of popen...

        
--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Nov 11 08:19:05 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:19:05 -0600
Subject: Classes
In-Reply-To: <o4Az9.957$nH7.7699611@news-text.cableinet.net>
References: <o4Az9.957$nH7.7699611@news-text.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <15823.44617.772509.307391@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    newt> I'm putting together an application that uses Tkinter for the
    newt> GUI. At the moment I'm using separate classes for each of the
    newt> screens I want to use. Is this the usual way of doing it?

Yes.

    newt> I've also added a __init__ to each class, so that it can call a
    newt> do_widgets routine (in the class) which creates and places all the
    newt> widgets. Is this the ususal way?

More-or-less.  Creating and placing the widgets is frequently done right in
the __init__ method.

    newt> If I wanted to pass some values into my class how do I change the
    newt> __init__ to accept the input? [I suppose part of the problem is
    newt> because I'm calling the class with the command ClassName(self) ]

No "self" is needed.  To create a class which has three explicit parameters,
define it as

    class ClassName:
        def __init__(self, one, two, three):
            ...

then instantiate it like so:

    instance = ClassName(a,b,c)

    newt> Is the correct way to do this: in the class module, get the
    newt> __init__ to do not very much, and then call the do_widgets
    newt> routine?

In all depends.  How complex are your screens?  How dynamic are they (do
widgets come and go)?  What initialization is repeated each time a screen is
displayed?

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From d_blade8 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 22 13:46:08 2002
From: d_blade8 at hotmail.com (Lemniscate)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 10:46:08 -0800
Subject: Time Problem [more]
Message-ID: <7396d2b2.0211221046.4a5216dd@posting.google.com>

Hi, 

I posted an issue with the time module, it turns out that I think I
was just being stupid.  GMT right?  If so, Sorry.

Lem


From noel.minet at noos.fr  Wed Nov  6 16:40:20 2002
From: noel.minet at noos.fr (Noel Minet)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:40:20 +0100
Subject: newbie re question
References: <1osisu81483e4k3j905dun6diio6rt29ao@4ax.com> <sFfy9.2868$h%5.101793@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3dc98c38$0$24471$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>

It seems ':' and '@' are considered as a word breaks
Also, it seems the OP wants to capture 'a.aa'

a lookahead does it:

>>> pattern = re.compile(r'(?:\s|^)([\w_][\w\._]*)(?=\s|$)')
>>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa
aa__a?jk xxx')
['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'aa', '_aa', 'aa_aa', 'xxx']


"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message
news:sFfy9.2868$h%5.101793 at newsb.telia.net...
> Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
>
> > I've been trying to grok re's and settled myself a little exercise:
> > concoct a re for a Python identifier.
> >
> > Now what I got is
> >
> > >>> pattern = re.compile(r'(\s|^)([\w_][\w\._]*)(\s|$)')
> > >>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa
aa__a?jk')
> > [('', 'aadf', ' '), (' ', 'b', ' '), (' ', 'aasa', ' '), (' ', 'aa', '>
'), (' ', 'aa_aa', ' ')]
> >
> > But as you can see from the results, not all valid identifiers get
> > caught. For example, why isn't 'cdase' caught?
>
> findall returns non-overlapping matches.  there's only a single space
> between "aadf" and "cdase", and that was used by the first match.
>
> here's a better pattern:
>
>     pattern = re.compile(r'\b([a-zA-Z_]\w*)\b')
>
> </F>
>
>




From schaffer.SPAM at optonline.net  Tue Nov 26 10:21:23 2002
From: schaffer.SPAM at optonline.net (Les Schaffer)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:21:23 -0500
Subject: Reading MS Excel Files ?
References: <3de2e939$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <as03hl$msark$1@ID-147588.news.dfncis.de>

Peter Skipworth wrote:

> Quite a few of the scripts I develop need to be able to parse a
> Microsoft Excel spreadsheet - with Perl, this was quite simple, using a
> module called Spreadsheet::ParseExcel. Does anything similar exist for
> Python ?

well, its not pretty but it works fine:

run xlhtml on your spreadsheet to produce an html table, then run w3m on 
that html to get the data

        result = os.popen( "/usr/bin/xlhtml -te %s > %s" % \
                           ( excelFile, tempFile ) ).close()
...

        sheet = os.popen( '/usr/bin/w3m -dump %s' % tempFile )

w3m's output is lines for rows, and '|' seperating columns. works fine for 
me.

les schaffer


From kibab at icehouse.net  Wed Nov 13 14:09:16 2002
From: kibab at icehouse.net (Kaleb Pederson)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:09:16 -0800
Subject: python, Qt and HOOPS 3D
In-Reply-To: <3DD2A05D.5050007@elemtech.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c28b48$296ab380$e90dbb92@KWINXP>

I would probably use PyQt and the create the SIP definition file so that
SIP (a utility that comes with PyQt) can generate the bindings.  As PyQt
already handles binding to Qt, this would be fairly trivial to do.

--Kaleb

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]
On Behalf Of Karl G. Merkley
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 10:56 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: python, Qt and HOOPS 3D


I am looking for the python bindings for the HOOPS-Qt widget.
Has anybody done this?  Is anyone willing to share?  If not
does someone have any pointers on how to go about doing this?

I've been playing around with swig but haven't had any luck making
it work yet.

Thanks,
	Karl

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Fri Nov  8 15:55:05 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:55:05 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9b8hqa.eo3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Oleg fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 08 November 2002 04:54 am:

> Hi
> 
> I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
> between Python and Common Lisp (
> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
>
        I have to wonder about any paper that describes Python as being like 
LISP except with in-fix notation...

        By that loose definition, ALL languages are like LISP... (which, at a 
root, is true, since they all can be equated to a Turing machne <G>).

        However, I'd find it more reasonable to declare the Forth is like LISP 
-- except backwards <G>

--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 06:41:41 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:41:41 -0000
Subject: System Administration with Python -- documentation?
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDB3E@intrepid>

> From:	steve at ferg.org [SMTP:steve at ferg.org]
> I'd like to suggest Python as a useful tool for our (NT and Unix)
> System Administrators.
> 
> Ideally, there would be a book called something like "System
> Administration with Python" or "Python for System Administrators", and
> I could just recommend that book. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to
> be such a book in print.  (I think there is a need here that O'Reilly
> should jump on!)
> 
> I have found the "System Administration" category of the "Python
> Cookbook".  It has some useful material, but of course it is not
> designed to give systematic and comprehensive coverage of all of the
> tasks that a system administrator would like to do with Python.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions for materials on the subject of
> Python for System Administrators?  Online materials?  Chapters from
> books?  Anything?
 
Mark Lutz's "Programming Python", 2nd edition has a 200+ page section on
system administration with Python.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From djc at object-craft.com.au  Sat Nov 30 22:18:02 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 01 Dec 2002 14:18:02 +1100
Subject: Threading problems at program exit
References: <m3hee02arn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <3de8931f$0$75603$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl> <m37keuptwo.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <mailman.1038710822.8280.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m34r9yqvf9.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

> On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 09:36:07AM +1100, Dave Cole wrote:
> > Now the problem is that even though the database connection can be
> > shared between threads it can only support a single query in flight at
> > a time.  This means that while a cursor is fetching results over a
> > Connection I need the Cursor to maintain a lock on the Connection.  I
> > do not have any control over the structure of the client code which is
> > using the Cursor.
> 
> So you must support even the following code, right (two queries in flight
> in the same thread)?
> 
>     c1 = db.cursor()
>     c2 = db.cursor()
>     c1.execute(QUERY1)
>     while 1:
>         row1 = c1.fetchone()
>         if not row1: break
> 
>         c2.execute(QUERY2)
>         while 1:
>             row2 = c2.fetchone()
>             if not row2: break
>             # do something with (row1, row2)        

If you invent some kind of scheme that involves putting a lock that
prevents c1 and c2 from being "in a query" at the same time, won't this
single-threaded code deadlock?

Yes it will deadlock.

The limitations of the feature in a single thread do not prevent it
from being extremely useful in a multi-threaded environment.

If you want to provide a scalable server which does the same query
for a large number of "simultaneous" clients, then the sharing of
connections between threads is very useful.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 11 08:01:36 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:01:36 +0100
Subject: writing from file into dictionary
In-Reply-To: <200211112315.03489.bhards@bigpond.net.au>
References: <186229a7.0211110211.7c639dc@posting.google.com> <%jMz9.16299$Bs5.574932@news1.tin.it> <200211112315.03489.bhards@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <E18BECv-00008e-00@mail.python.org>

On Monday 11 November 2002 01:15 pm, Brad Hards wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:16, Alex Martelli wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > Assuming the trailing colon at the end of the 'rewrite' part
> > (and anything following it, such as the comment in the last
> > line) is to be removed; and that corresponding to each head
> > you want a list of the possible rewrites for that head;
>
> Can I try an explanation?

Sure!  Sorry for not providing one earlier -- people are often happier
to get just the working-fragment rather than all the spiel behind it.


> > grammardict = {}
>
> This creates a dictionary, and provides a references that dictionary, which
> is "grammardict". We'll need this later.

Right.  The dict object starts out empty.


> > for line in open('thefile'):
>
> open() is another name for file() in 2.2

Yes.  It's the older name, so it's the one I'm used to using;-).

> When used this way, open() or file(), takes a default of opening in read
> only mode, with unbuffered I/O.

Yes, and no.  Yes, read-only mode (and text-mode too, on platform where
it matters); but no, unbuffered I/O is not the default -- that would damage
performance substantially in this default-openiong case.

> open() returns a file object, which the for loop iterates over. This magic

Yes.

> iteration only works on later versions of python (ie not 1.5.2 :). When and

Indeed: only Python 2.2 and later.  In earlier versions, you could use:

for line in open('thefile').readlines():

as long as the file isn't too large to fit all in memory at once comfortably.
For potentially-huge files in old Python versions, you'd need to use less
legible and handly idioms, which is why the new one was added in 2.2.

> if the iteration does work, the name "line" refers to each line in the
> file.
>
> >     head, rewrite = line.split(':',2)[:2]
>
> "line.split(':'.2)" means to create a list of up to three items from the

Yes, but I think it's easier to remember as: split up to 2 times (i.e., in
correspondence to two occurrences of colon).

> text referenced by "line", by taking all the characters up to the
> delimiting colon (":"). We need a list of three items to avoid the second
> colon being attached to the second item.

Yes, the last item holds all that follows the second colon (including
possibly more colons, we don't care).

The slightly simpler statement:

    head, rewrite = line.split(':')[:2]

works just as well in this case -- it just generates as many items as
there are colons in the line, plus one, and takes the first two as the
values to bind to names 'head' and 'rewrite' -- so, the overall effect
is just the same as the way I had written it.  It's just a habit for me
to specify the maximum number of splitter-occurrences to consider
when I know there is such a limit -- the performance advantage is tiny,
but I do tend to get into the habit of specifying things explicitly when
that has no substantial downsides, as in this case.

> Having got our list of three items, we create a slice consisting of the
> first two items. This sliced list is then unpacked into two variables -
> "head" and "rewrite". You could also use:
> head, rewrite = filter(None, line.split(':',2))
> but I guess that is less efficient, otherwise Alex would have used it.

That would never occur to me -- there are no specs about skipping
empty pieces; and it would fail just about every time, e.g.:

>>> line = 'a:b:\n'
>>> head, rewrite = filter(None, line.split(':',2))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
>>>

as we didn't give any name to use for the last piece ('\n', which isn't
filtered-out of course -- it's not the empty string).

More generally, I don't always use the most efficient idiom -- first,
I don't always KNOW which idiom is going to be most efficient for
any given case; second, "premature optimization is the root of all
evil in programming" and "do the simplest thing that can possibly
work", two principles I try to live by, both suggest picking simplicity
over (assumed) efficiency.


> >     grammardict.setdefault(head, []).append(rewrite)
>
> This searches the dictionary refered to by "grammarlist" for an list that

grammardict (simple typo, of course).

> is keyed by a string equal to "head", creating an empty list entry if it
> doesn't already exist. The "append" part then operates on the string
> referred to by the "rewrite" variable, adding it to the (possibly empty)
> list keyed by "head".

Spot-on.

> To rephrase:
> If grammardict does not include any entry keyed by "head", then an entry is
> created, consisting of an empty list. "rewrite" is then appended to that
> empty list, creating a dictionary entry of head:[rewrite].
> If grammardict does include an entry keyed by "head", then "rewrite" is
> appended to the existing list, resulting in a dictionary entry of head: [
> existing, rewrite].

Yes.  Python 1.5.2 idioms equivalent to this statement include:

if not grammardict.has_key(head):
    grammardict[head] = []
grammardict[head].append(rewrite)

Besides being more compact, the current Python idiom of setdefault
does the job of indexing grammardict just once, rather than two or
three times like the 1.5.2-compatible snippet.  Even then least
performance-obsessed programmer will often balk at doing things
two or three times when doing them once suffices;-).


> How close is this?

Very!  The tidbit about unbuffered opening, and the filter(None ... 
strangeness, are the only two details in your commentary that I
think are erroneous -- all the rest of my commentary about your
commentary is just expanding it or mentioning side issues.


Alex



From Patrick.Surry at quadstone.com  Fri Nov  8 09:28:18 2002
From: Patrick.Surry at quadstone.com (Patrick Surry)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:28:18 -0500
Subject: Question about drawing simple graph in Python?
References: <20021108044701.4273.94217.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3DCBCA02.E476C205@quadstone.com>

I don't know of a specific module for this, but there's a nice package called
graphviz (google will find it, I'm offline) which includes tools for rendering
directed and undirected graph layouts to various formats (postscript, gif,
etc).  The nice thing about it is that you just need to generate a text file
with the topology in it, something like:

s1 -> t1;
s2 -> t2;
...

and then graphviz will figure out a nice layout for the graph.  The input file
should be really easy to generate from Python (I've done it from perl in the
past)

Patrick

-- 
_________________________________________________________________________
Patrick Surry, PhD  Tel 617 753 7393 Fax 617 457 5299   www.quadstone.com
- With the breadth of our knowledge grows the boundary of our ignorance -





From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 27 10:42:15 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:42:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Get yesterday's date
References: <mailman.1038408819.21146.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaua7e3.kb.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:32:21 -0600, Jeff Bauer napisa?(a):
>  >>> from normalDate import ND
>  >>> today = ND()
>  >>> yesterday = today - 1
>  >>> yesterday
>   20021126
>  >>> 
What with the first day of the month ?
Eg. Let's say it's 1 of December. Now let's substract one day from it.
Is it 20021200 or 20021130 ?

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From gessler at iabg.de  Tue Nov  5 07:18:40 2002
From: gessler at iabg.de (Gerhard Geßler)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:18:40 +0100
Subject: Modifying Kernel Routes?
References: <3dc484ac@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>
Message-ID: <aq8cv0$5di$1@news.iabg.de>

"Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:3dc484ac at nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de...
> Hi,
>
> we have implemented a routing algorithm for ad-hoc-networks (TORA) in
> Python using os.popen("route") to actually set the (linux) kernel routes.
> Did anyone of you come around some example code how to alter routes in
> pure python or even better do you know of an extension module which offers
> this functionality?
>
> Yours,
>
> Mickey.

I don't know about a Python module for doing this, but I want to suggest
that you better use the "ip" utility for manipulating routes. It is more
powerful than the normal "route" command.

Cheers,

    Gerhard





From mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Mon Nov  4 09:42:56 2002
From: mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Matthias Huening)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 14:42:56 GMT
Subject: SSH/SCP
Message-ID: <Xns92BC9FE0EDD4Fmhueningzedatfuberli@130.133.1.4>

Hi,

I am looking for a SSH/SCP module that will work on Windows (2000/XP)
and allow me to connect to a Linux server. Suggestions? 

Thanks, Matthias


From tom at toshopDELETE.com  Sat Nov 30 04:44:51 2002
From: tom at toshopDELETE.com (Tom Nunamaker)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 03:44:51 -0600
Subject: Newbie Question: Aborting a Python script
Message-ID: <MPG.1852449355ffd522989685@news.newsguy.com>

How do you stop a script during execution?  Do I have to throw an error 
like a divide by zero?  I didn't see any abort, stop, halt, etc type of 
function.

Thanks

Tom


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 13 20:17:26 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:17:26 -0500
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037219902.17042.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <C96dneUfdtZLZU-gXTWcqw@comcast.com>

"Cameron Horn" <camhorn at mac.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037219902.17042.python-list at python.org...
> If I want to write an empty generator, I write this(?):
> def foo():
>    return
>    yield "never"
>
> Assuming that having an empty generator is as valid as empty
functions and classes,
 > what kind of linguistic cruft is that?  I expect better out of
python, dang it.

I challenge the assumption.  A generator, by definition, is a
(nonempty) function (and not a separate generator type) that returns
an iterator with __iter__ and next methods.

TJR




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Nov 28 08:39:27 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 14:39:27 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyfy97ew0o7.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <S3nF9.23700$hg1.65413@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <tyfof89x2zz.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <tyfk7ixx180.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

[stuff about indentation sensitivity in Lisp]

> Hmm ... let's see whether Google finds any previous deliberations on
> this matter ...

Well, here's a thread about an implementation for Scheme

Message-ID: <2JMd8.5174$D6.14574 at news.iol.ie>

though the homepage URL doesn't work for me. 

And here is another approach:

Message-ID: <8nea2v$soq$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>


From grante at visi.com  Fri Nov 22 11:40:56 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 16:40:56 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3DDD711D.2000802@skippinet.com.au> <arl9cs$k6b$0@216.39.172.122> <3dde5012$0$4491$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3dde5e18$0$22192$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3dde5012$0$4491$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> I don't have win32all, but don't you need to have the
>> OVERLAPPED struct persist as well? Isn't the event slot there
>> also used asynchronously?
> 
> Yes, the OVERLAPPED struct has to be persistent.  I've thought
> about using that as storage for the comm event mask value, but
> then we've got to add some sort of accessor function to
> retreive it later.  The advantantage of using a 4-byte buffer
> is that the semantics stay more similar to both the Win32
> usage, and the way that data buffers work for overlapped
> read/write operations:
> 
> 
>    rc,mask = WaitCommEvent(handle,overlapped)
>    rc = WaitForSingleObject(overlapped.hevent)
>    whatHappened = int(mask)

I should have mentioned that in the non-overlapped case, the
returned mask value would be an integer (same as it is now).
That way the only change is to the overlapped usage.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Am I in GRADUATE
                                  at               SCHOOL yet?
                               visi.com            


From trevorperrin at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 21 05:03:25 2002
From: trevorperrin at hotmail.com (Trevor)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 02:03:25 -0800
Subject: defining __setattr__ in an extension
Message-ID: <e5e6d03.0211210203.39ef7c30@posting.google.com>

Hello Python folks,

I'm trying to define a new python class in a C extension module,
following this recipe:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/54352

I'm having trouble adding a __setattr__ method.  Following Vladimir's
advice (see note 1 on the URL) I add the __getattr__ and __setattr__
functions to the class dictionary before calling PyClass_New.

When my __getattr__ function is called, the self parameter is NULL,
with self as the first argument in the args tuple.  But when
__setattr__ is called, the self parameter is still NULL, but self
*isn't* in the args tuple, which only has two args.  So I have no
self, which seems alarming.

Then I tried adding __setattr__ after the call to PyClass_New, like
any other method, and then it doesn't appear to get called at all.

So what's the appropriate way to define a __setattr__ method when
using the above idiom?


Trevor


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 14 10:04:11 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:04:11 GMT
Subject: property problems
References: <46a101c28bb2$6f2d1420$7635bcc3@blueyonder.net> <1wOA9.85898$MGm1.48783@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <LXOA9.8568$744.290820@news1.tin.it>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:

> Old style class:
> 
>      class x:
> 
> New style class:
> 
>      class x(object):
>      class y(x): # if x is defined with class x(object):
> 
> or
> 
>      class x(list):
>      class x(str):
>      class x(dict):
>      ...
> 
> That is, a new-style class is a sub-class of a new-style class.  object,
> list, str, and dict are convenient (and common) base-classes for
> new-style classes.

99.44% right.  Just one other obscure possibility:

class x:
  __metaclass__ = type


What really determines if x is a new-style class is x's metaclass,
and rather than inheriting it from x's base (which is the normal
way to do it) you may alternatively choose to assert it explicitly
by a __metaclass__ attribute in class scope (or a global variable
__metaclass__ in module scope if x has no bases).  x is new-style
iff x's metaclass is the built-in type object named 'type'.


Alex



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 19 00:51:53 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:51:53 -0800
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <phjcra.kp5.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Josh fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 18 November 2002 08:18 pm:

> Hi guys,
> 
> I am a python newbie, and I am sure there is an easy answer but, Is
> there any equivalent to C's static variables in Python? If not, how

        Okay, the easy answer: No.

> can you have variables inside a function, that 'remember' their values
> between function calls?
>
        Complex answer 1: Create a python module containing initialized 
"variables" and the function (with the function declaring the variables 
"global"), import the module function.

Example:
,----[ /home/wulfraed/staticmod.py ]
| MyStatic = []
| 
| def MyFunc(a):
| global MyStatic
| MyStatic.append(a)
| print "MyFunc... MyStatic:", MyStatic

`----
,----[ /home/wulfraed/staticuser.py ]
| from staticmod import MyFunc
| 
| MyFunc(123)
| MyFunc('abc')
| MyFunc(10*3.33)
| 

`----
[wulfraed at beastie wulfraed]$ python staticuser.py
MyFunc... MyStatic: [123]
MyFunc... MyStatic: [123, 'abc']
MyFunc... MyStatic: [123, 'abc', 33.299999999999997]

        True, if you define two or more functions within the module, they both 
can access the variables defined within the module. I could have 
created MyFunc1 and MyFunc2, and had MyFunc2 perform the print 
statement.

        Complex answer 2: Create a python class; depending on coding you can 
have class-wide variables, or instance specific variables

,----[ /home/wulfraed/classy.py ]
| class cwide:
| MyVar = []
| def MyFunc(self,a):
| cwide.MyVar.append(a)
| def MyOut(self):
| print "Class Wide... MyVar...", cwide.MyVar
| 
| 
| class specific:
| def __init__(self):
| self.MyVar = []
| def MyFunc(self,a):
| self.MyVar.append(a)
| def MyOut(self):
| print "Instance Specific... MyVar...", self.MyVar
| 
| cw1 = cwide()
| cw2 = cwide()
| 
| cw1.MyFunc(123)
| cw2.MyFunc('ABC')
| cw1.MyFunc(('a', 'tuple'))
| cw2.MyOut()
| cw1.MyOut()
| 
| is1 = specific()
| is2 = specific()
| 
| is1.MyFunc(123)
| is2.MyFunc('ABC')
| is1.MyFunc(('a', 'tuple'))
| is2.MyOut()
| is1.MyOut()
| 
| 
| 
| 

`----
[wulfraed at beastie wulfraed]$ python classy.py
Class Wide... MyVar... [123, 'ABC', ('a', 'tuple')]
Class Wide... MyVar... [123, 'ABC', ('a', 'tuple')]
Instance Specific... MyVar... ['ABC']
Instance Specific... MyVar... [123, ('a', 'tuple')]

> Josh
> 
> 

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Nov 12 05:33:42 2002
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 05:33:42 -0500
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
 <bdb5b58f.0211111438.640885d2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <GkN09ks/KrTa089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <bdb5b58f.0211111438.640885d2 at posting.google.com>,
logistix at zworg.com (logistix) wrote:
>a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya) wrote in message news:<fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8 at posting.google.com>...
>> [ ... ]                                      find fibanicci series in
>> a single line of code.  [ ... ]
>Guys, c'mon.  How are you supposed to lock up your computer when you
>only print the first 10 numbers?

Ah, well, if it's locking up the computer you're after, do it
in unary arithmetic..

print reduce (lambda x,y: x+[x[-1]+x[-2]], xrange(10), ['1','1'])


(Don't say `xrange(100)` unless you're sure you mean it.)


        Regards.        Mel.


From frans at haarman.com  Sun Nov  3 12:56:51 2002
From: frans at haarman.com (Frans)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:56:51 GMT
Subject: Parsing & question about usages off classes!
References: <docx9.172161$Mf5.8344841@Flipper> <iWcx9.81076$TD1.3676165@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <Drdx9.173485$Mf5.8431964@Flipper>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Frans wrote:


> If by any chance your request for creating new classes
> has nothing to do with creating new classes but is rather
> about binding dynamically computed names to new instances
> of an existing class, my earnest advice is not to do that.
> Use dictionaries and lists, NOT variables with dynamically
> determined names -- the latter is never a good approach.

Ok, thats what I needed to know!

> Creating new classes is easy, yes.  But what I suspect you
> actually may want to do is completely different and utterly
> unadvisable.  1 Corintians 6:12.

Thanks for your feedback!

Frans



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Nov 14 18:45:53 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:45:53 -0800
Subject: What is the best way to join tuples?
Message-ID: <E18CTin-0001l0-00@conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Wednesday 13 November 2002 11:31 pm,  dique wrote:
> # I have two list of tuples, eg something like
> wxyTuple = [(1,1,1), (1,1,2), (1,2,1), (2,2,1)] # tuples of ?(w,x,y)
> xyzTuple = [(1,1,0), (1,2,1), (1,1,2)] # tuples of (x,y,z)
> 
> # and I want to join them together become (w,x,y,z), just like what we used
> to do with RDBMS by joining two tables together, with x,y acting as pivot.
> The result should be:
> 
> wxyzTuple = [(1,1,1,0),(1,1,1,2),(1,1,2,1),(1,2,1,-1),(2,2,1,-1)] # where -1
> is to indicate no match is found in xyzTuple

Here's two ways --

Traditional loops (probably clearer, though perhaps ungainly):

>>> wxyTuple = [(1,1,1), (1,1,2), (1,2,1), (2,2,1)]
>>> xyzTuple = [(1,1,0), (1,2,1), (1,1,2)]
>>> wxyzTuple=[]
>>> for (w,x,y) in wxyTuple:
...     i=0
...     for (xp,yp,z) in xyzTuple:
...             if (x,y)==(xp,yp):
...                     wxyzTuple.append((w,x,y,z))
...                     i=1
...     if not i: wxyzTuple.append((w,x,y,-1))
... 
>>> wxyzTuple
[(1, 1, 1, 0), (1, 1, 1, 2), (1, 1, 2, 1), (1, 2, 1, -1), (2, 2, 1, -1)]

Using evil list comprehensions (well, I've seen worse, but these weren't that 
obvious). I find that the weird part is the outer-join business of 
substituting for missing matches. The easiest solution seems to be to do the 
two tasks separately:

>>> wxyzTuple = [(w,x,y,z) for (w,x,y) in wxyTuple
... 		for (xp,yp,z) in xyzTuple if (x,y)==(xp,yp)]

>>> wxyzTuple += [(w,x,y,-1) for (w,x,y) in wxyTuple 
... 		if (x,y) not in [(x,y) for (x,y,z) in xyzTuple]]
>>> wxyzTuple
[(1, 1, 1, 0), (1, 1, 1, 2), (1, 1, 2, 1), (1, 1, 1, -1), (2, 1, 1, -1)]

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From dreed at capital.edu  Sun Nov 24 17:34:38 2002
From: dreed at capital.edu (Dave Reed)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:34:38 -0500
Subject: cannot import gtk
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.11.24.20.59.20.170846@noos.fr>
References: <pan.2002.11.24.20.59.20.170846@noos.fr>
Message-ID: <200211241734.38215.dreed@capital.edu>

On Sunday 24 November 2002 15:59, Lenny wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've just installed a RH 8.0, and while trying to use python programs 
from
> my previous linuxbox, i encounter the following problems with python :
> 
> >    from gtk import GtkVBox
> >ImportError: cannot import name GtkVBox


The GTK prefix is removed:

try: 
from gtk import VBox


> this is just an example. I have the same errors with many widgets, but
> also, with GDK, etc.etc...
> 
> I tried with python (that is python1.5), python2 and python2.2


Red Hat 8.0 doesn't include python 1.5 (just python 2.2.1).


> I really have gtk+- installed (/usr/include/gtk-1.2 AND gtk-2.0)
> with (for the example above) a nice gtkvbox.h


Red Hat 8.0 comes with the libraries for gtk 1.2, but only the python
bindings for gtk 2.0. If you want to use python with gtk 1.2 you'll
have to install those bindings yourself.


> I think python does not know where to look for modules or something 
like
> that, but I'm new to this, and do not know what to do.

Nope, see above.

HTH,
Dave




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Nov 11 15:04:58 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:04:58 -0600
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
In-Reply-To: <hRA09ks/K3oP089yn@the-wire.com>
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
        </f9z9ks/KbEa089yn@the-wire.com>
        <hRA09ks/K3oP089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <15824.3434.230692.277302@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Mel> Well, one-liners clearly are not your forte.

    >> print reduce (lambda x,y: (x[1],x[0]+x[1], x[2]+[x[1]]), xrange(10), (0,1,[]))[2]

    Mel> Pretty lame compared to

    Mel> print reduce (lambda x,y: x + [x[-1]+x[-2]], xrange(10), [1, 1] )

    Mel> right?

Which demonstrates that perhaps a one-liner isn't the best solution to this
particular problem.  I realize the OP asked for one, but that Python's
syntax makes it difficult to "overload" a single line with lots of content
isn't always such a bad idea. ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From TuxTrax at fortress.tuxnet.net  Fri Nov  1 05:32:46 2002
From: TuxTrax at fortress.tuxnet.net (TuxTrax)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:32:46 -0000
Subject: Why does database.keys() method fail in shelve?
Message-ID: <slrnas4m9d.e4j.TuxTrax@fortress.tuxnet>

>>> database = shelve.open("HH.database", "r")
>>> database.keys()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.0/shelve.py", line 55, in keys
    return self.dict.keys()
bsddb.error: (22, 'Invalid argument')

This is the error which I recieve when I try to list keys in the following 
*large* shelve file:

-rw-r--r--    1 mat      mat      92045312 Nov  1 02:19 HH.database

That seems to otherwise be functioning normally.

Any ideas why the keys method consistently refuses to work? Is there
an upper limit on the number of keys it can handle? The file Has like, 
25,000+ keys. If so, is there another method to use?

Cheers,

Mathew

-- 
My Family is Microsoft Free. Running Mandrake Linux 8.0 kernel 2.4.3-20
I use quality open source software alternatives on my PC.

Yes, I am a Penguin cult high priest. Flipper readings upon request.

ROT13 this email address to mail me:
bar jbeq abg guerr - uvtu qrfreg zna, ng lnubb qbg pbz



From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  6 13:50:57 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:50:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Question about dictionary and graph?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021105185139.01a3e638@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <20021106185057.58117.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com>

I have a string like "from=string1,to=string2,symbole=
'string3' ", I want to parse it and place the three
fields into a tuple  (from,to ,symbol). I also want to
stick an ID(just an integer) to each tuple. So how to
parse this? And is it okay to use m.groupdict() to get
a dictionary from the results of parsing?

And still another question, if I want to draw a line
with arrow pointed from "from" to "to", how can I do
this?  I think this question is about how to draw a
graph in Python. Thanks for any hints!



=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/



From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 26 16:46:33 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 21:46:33 GMT
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
References: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com> <3de3e129$0$4437$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <as0p9f$3c7$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <3de3ebb9$0$4491$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <as0p9f$3c7$1 at ginger.mathworks.com>, Joshua Marshall wrote:

>>> but the following is not legal:
>>> 
>>> a, b += i, j
>>> 
>>> Is there a reason that allowing this would be bad?
> 
>> If it were allowed, what do you propose it would do?
> 
> Maybe:
> 
>   a, b += i, j
> 
> is equivalent to
> 
>   tmp = j
>   a += i
>   b += tmp

To me, that would be a bit counter-intuitive, since

  ((a,b) + (i,j)) equals (a,b,i,j)  rather than   ((a+i),(b+j))

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I decided to be JOHN
                                  at               TRAVOLTA instead!!
                               visi.com            


From mikael.lexen at spam.no.volvo.com  Tue Nov 19 10:23:17 2002
From: mikael.lexen at spam.no.volvo.com (Mikael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lex=E9n?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:23:17 +0100
Subject: Perl to python convertor
References: <3dd94531$1@news.mt.net.mk>
Message-ID: <3DDA5765.F0DA8132@spam.no.volvo.com>

Is the module pyperl an option?

http://www.cpan.org/modules/by-module/LWP/GAAS/pyperl-1.0.readme

/Mikael

?????? ?. wrote:

> Is there such a beast,
> I have a perl module for a protocol that's not supported in Python
> (SMPP). I think it doesn't use much more than plain Perl but I'm not a
> perl expert.
>
> --
> ??????
>
>    Actually, Microsoft is sort of a mixture between the Borg and the Ferengi.



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Nov 11 01:09:40 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:09:40 +0100
Subject: getting started with cgi on os x
In-Reply-To: <206740-220021111135932640@mochamail.com>; from stephen@mochamail.com on Sun, Nov 10, 2002 at 07:59:32PM -0800
References: <206740-220021111135932640@mochamail.com>
Message-ID: <20021111070940.R30315@prim.han.de>

Stephen Aichele wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> A few years back, I dove into python, and after being away from it
> for a year, I'm looking at using it to build a cgi backend to a
> website.
> 
> I'm new to cgi.  I'm working on a mac running os x.  
> 
> Question #1:  I'm assuming that I need to have a web server up and
> running on my development machine to get cgi pages to display in a
> browser.  Any info on setting up apache or medusa(?) to run python
> cgi scripts on os x would be much appreciated.  I feel a bit lost.

I can't help with this one.  But google turns out 

    http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/ct/49

which mentions that OSX has a *builtin* Apache web server.

> Question #2: I'm also assuming that the easiest way to call a python
> cgi script from a web page is via a form 'action'.  I'd really like
> to use javascript to call python cgi scripts/methods , (rather than
> using 'action' from a form ).  My hunch is that this is impossible,
> or at least a pain in the rear.  Am I right?

Not quite. Problem is that you can't easily do it in a 
cross-plattform way.  But basically you could do (works on mozilla, 
not very different on IE):

var req;
req = new XMLHttpRequest();

function toserver() {
    req.onload = handle_response;
    req.open('POST', 'http://server.where.i.came.from', true);
    req.send('somevalue-which-will-appear-in-BODY', true)
}

function handle_response() {
    gotback = req.responseXML;
    // process 
}
   
But still  using the form-submit hooks is probably more 
cross-platform and avoids some pitfalls (specifically w/r 
to authentication) with the former approach. 
You do know that you can intercept the submit-process
with javascript?

<form ...>
    <input type="button" name="save" value="save something" 
           onclick="intercept_function();">
</form>

HTH,
    
    holger



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 19 23:44:40 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:44:40 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org> <slrnasuojg.l14.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <pan.2002.11.20.04.16.26.459889@mn.rr.com>
Message-ID: <ov3fra.or3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Anna fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 19 November 2002 08:15 pm:

> So if I?m still here asking, it?s because I need an answer that
> *isn?t* just a reference to the tutorial, something from a live human
> being... So, yeah, I guess I would consider it a brushoff, unless you
> took the time to expand on the tutorial in some way... Personally, I?d
> far rather get no answer than ?RTFM, silly newbie?... cuz chances are,
> I already did...
>
        But did you /tell/ us just what you referenced... If you tell us 
exactly what you looked up first we could more easily determine if you 
overlooked something, looked in the wrong area, or truly failed to 
understand what you did read.

        {two bits worth -- inflation, you know <G>}

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From theller at python.net  Thu Nov 21 05:53:01 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 11:53:01 +0100
Subject: py2exe/numpy/com-server problem
References: <aribiq$rjqqb$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
Message-ID: <r8dfurci.fsf@python.net>

Uwe Schmitt <uwe.schmitt at procoders.net> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> I implemented a COM-Server for a class using NumericalPython (numarray).
> 
> If I install the server by 'python server.py --register' everything is fine.
> If I use py2exe or the McMillan installer and call the generated .exe
> in order to (un-)register the COM server, the program crashes.
> 
> I use Win2K, Python 2.2 (from Activestate, including win32com), 
> and numarray 0.36.
> 
> Is this a known bug ? google did not help me.

Maybe a missing numeric dll? Neither py2exe nor installer get them
all, I think.  If I remember correctly, multiarray.pyd dynloads
_numpy.pyd (in C code), or something like that.

You should try copying all the Numeric dlls (pyds).  Does this help?

Thomas


From usenet at imperialviolet.org  Thu Nov 28 19:33:24 2002
From: usenet at imperialviolet.org (Adam Langley)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:33:24 +0000
Subject: Processing snmp data...
References: <mailman.1038508599.10499.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.29.00.33.23.435708@imperialviolet.org>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:34:42 +0000, Meehan, Francois wrote:

> enterprises.311.1.1.3.1.1.5.1.4.13.95.84.111.116.97.108.58.95.84.111.116.97.
> 108 = 5540
> 
> I just need what is after the "=" sign. 
 
"abc=def".split("=")[1] returns "def". Try that.

Beware that your strings look like that they have spaces 
around the "=". You may wish to strip them.

(hint "abc "[:-1] -> "abc")



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 29 03:08:17 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:08:17 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyfy97ew0o7.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <3DE666F0.32F64BA6@alcyone.com> <f6scuus406jor5ka1kr7sj80serq7215gd@4ax.com> <3DE67AD1.59C3560D@alcyone.com> <oavcuus0p1j8s09deelieavoh8nrrbrlhn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3DE72071.D9D35392@alcyone.com>

Courageous wrote:

> A programmer not using Emacs or a Lisp-aware editor
> is much better served by:
> 
> (something
>         (something
>                 (something
>                         something
>                 )
>         )
> )
> 
> Misfortunately, this is entirely against standard Lisp style. Take
> it over to comp.lang.lisp, and ask them.

So when did I ever say this was not, exactly?

> You're not convincing me in the least, I might add. A decade of
> hearing from every corner of the Lisp community that a Lisp-aware
> editor is the only way to program Lisp cannot be undone by a lone
> voice on usenet.

I'm not entirely clear of what you thought I was attempting to convince
you of.  I simply said that even a non-Lisp aware editor will do
reasonable things with pointing out closing parentheses, since these are
so common in modern languages.

I can enter _C_ mode in emacs, and type

	(something
	 (something
	  (something
	   (something))))

with a return and a tab after each of the first three "somethings." 
When typing each close parenthesis, it highlights the corresponding open
parenthesis.  And this is in _C_ mode, not Lisp mode.

My point was not that Lisp programming is not facilitated by a
Lisp-aware editor.  I'm an emacs user myself, and am fully aware of
standard Lisp notations, and am fully ware of lisp-mode in emacs.

I simply said that even with a totally non-Lisp aware editor,
programmers are not left to the task _counting_ parentheses. 
Indentation may certainly be problematic if their editor thinks they are
programming in some other language, but any competent programmers
editor, Lisp-aware or not, will match parentheses for you.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Give me chastity, but not yet.
\__/ St. Augustine
    Bosskey.net: Return to Wolfenstein / http://www.bosskey.net/rtcw/
 A personal guide to Return to Castle Wolfenstein.


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 06:32:36 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:32:36 GMT
Subject: Simple sort for lists?
References: <4f5748b4.0211201517.2de69de0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ov3D9.49392$Yw.2293109@news2.tin.it>

R. Arens wrote:

> Hi, I'm using os.path.walk to walk through directories and join
> ordered files in the directories into one large file. Problem is,
> os.path.walk doesn't process the files in order, due to the way
> os.path.walk sends the filenames to the visit function. Does Python
> provide a method to sort the list of filenames provided by
> os.path.walk?

You can easily sort a list, in any way you have obtained it, by
calling the sort method of the list -- it gets sorted in-place.
So, if x is bound to a list object, that list object will be
sorted after you've called x.sort().


Alx



From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 27 10:51:22 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 15:51:22 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038374737.3016.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3de4e9fa$0$22216$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1038374737.3016.python-list at python.org>, Delaney, Timothy wrote:

>> Technically, you can do everything with nothing but binary NAND
>> operators, so things like addition, subraction, etc. aren't
>> really required. That doesn't make it a good idea to eliminate
>> things just because they can be replace by more complicated
>> sets of operations.
> 
> Hey - there ain't nothin' less complicated than a binary NAND ... ;)

But the set of them required to fetch a web page is a bit
imposing!

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ... Blame it on the
                                  at               BOSSA NOVA!!!
                               visi.com            


From magnus at thinkware.se  Wed Nov 20 07:30:49 2002
From: magnus at thinkware.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_Lyck=E5?=)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 04:30:49 -0800
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <m27kfsm2x8.fsf@python.net> <aq8qbh$ik0$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1036539728.6381.python-list@python.org> <ZI6y9.77441$aL4.2400685@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036590550.21817.python-list@python.org> <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036630990.6540.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <258fd9b8.0211200430.738201c2@posting.google.com>

Dave Reed <dreed at capital.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036630990.6540.python-list at python.org>...
> The only thing that
> bothers me about Python for teaching is the lack of enforced private
> members for classes.

Compared to C++? :)

What's the problem with "self.__name = 'Guido van Rossum'" ?
After all, people hardly write 
   coder._Person__name = 'Danny de Vito'
by accident. Code reviews hardly fail to see it either.

You can bypass protection and do very nasty things in C++ in
a way that makes Python feel like Fort Knox. C++ has arbitrary
memory pointers! How can that ever be safe? What Python does
here is to lock the door and put the key on a hook by the door. 
C++ just puts it under the door mat. In both cases this means 
that you can get in if there is an emergency, but gives a clear 
hint that you can't just walk in as you like. It's just more 
error prone in C++.


From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Nov 13 14:47:20 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:47:20 -0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <7h37kfh20fx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns92C5C959F7AE5dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in 
news:7h37kfh20fx.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk:

> DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> 
>> I hadn't realised it was Latex? Sorry.
> 
> Your email address says .uk, but your use of question marks is
> bewildering.  Was that really maent to be a question?

Just asking for confirmation. All I'd seen was the html output
in the documentation I've used. I was quite surprised that
Latex was still being used.

Sorry if my grammar isn't up to it. I'll try harder in future.

Regards DaveP.


From goodger at python.org  Mon Nov 18 20:36:03 2002
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 01:36:03 GMT
Subject: multi-quoted strings for HERE documents
In-Reply-To: <slrnatj24u.7mq.msoulier@tigger.digitaltorque.ca>
References: <slrnatj24u.7mq.msoulier@tigger.digitaltorque.ca>
Message-ID: <B9FEFFF4.2BF69%goodger@python.org>

Michael P. Soulier wrote:
> Does anyone have a better way of doing this?

Just move the backslash up a bit:

    print """\
    <table>
        <tr>
            <td>cell contents</td>
        </r>
    </table>"""

-- 
David Goodger  <goodger at python.org>  Open-source projects:
  - Python Docutils: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/
    (includes reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html)
  - The Go Tools Project: http://gotools.sourceforge.net/



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Nov  6 09:59:39 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 06:59:39 -0800
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com> <aq6qun$ib4$0@216.39.172.122> <2259b0e2.0211050956.5da2c074@posting.google.com> <aq9pic$pgt$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211060659.30631e4f@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message 
> For speed, I think it might be faster to count position but not use it to get the
> characters, e.g.,
> 
>  >>> def get_1st(exp):
>  ...     parens=i=0
>  ...     for c in exp:
>  ...         i += 1
>  ...         if c=='(': parens+=1
>  ...         elif c==')':
>  ...             parens -=1
>  ...             if not parens: return exp[:i]
>  ...
>  >>> exp = '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
>  >>> get_1st(exp)
>  '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)'
> 
> This is a little different from Lee Harr's post (which BTW looks to me
> like it depends on the first char being '('). I'd expect the above to run a
> little faster.
> 

You are right:

parenthesized_group:  130-140 microseconds
Addelim:           620-640 microseconds
Harr:               90-95 microseconds
get_1st:            60-65 microseconds

get_1st wins as the faster approach, more than twice my original
version
using lists (which however was not intended for speed).

> There are dangers in drawing too general conclusions from particular
> examples too ;-)
> 

I agree, still it has been instructive to me to compare the various 
approaches: I learned something more that just the fact that this is
not a problem for regular expressions (thing that I suspected).

Thanks to everybody,

                                                Michele


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Nov  4 15:30:53 2002
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 21:30:53 +0100
Subject: MySQLdb and threads
References: <aq69sk$8tb$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <wzlm496ps2.fsf@cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> "Gillou" <nospam at bigfoot.com> (G) writes:

G> Hi,
G> I plan to make SQL queries in different threads of an application using
G> MySQLdb.
G> Can I use the same Connection object in all threads (each thread having its
G> own cursor) for the queries ? Or should I use a different Connection object
G> for each thread ?

The doc says:

threadsafety

Integer constant stating the level of thread safety the interface supports.
As of MySQLdb version 0.9.0, this is set to 1, which means: Threads may
share the module.

The MySQL protocol can not handle multiple threads using the same
connection at once. Some earlier versions of MySQLdb utilized locking to
achieve a threadsafety of 2. While this is not terribly hard to accomplish
using the standard Cursor class (which uses mysql_store_result()), it is
complicated by SSCursor (which uses mysql_use_result(); with the latter you
must ensure all the rows have been read before another query can be
executed. It is further complicated by the addition of transactions, since
transactions start when a cursor execute a query, but end when COMMIT or
ROLLBACK is executed by the Connection object. Two threads cannot share a
connection while a transaction is in progress, in addition to not being
able to share it during query execution. This excessively complicated the
code to the point where it just isn't worth it.

The general upshot of this is: Don't share connections between threads.
It's really not worth your effort or mine, and in the end, will probably
hurt performance, since the MySQL server runs a separate thread for each
connection. You can certainly do things like cache connections in a pool,
and give those connections to one thread at a time. If you let two threads
use a connection simultaneously, the MySQL client library will probably
upchuck and die. You have been warned.

For threaded applications, try using a connection pool. This can be done
using the Pool module.

-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From jason at tishler.net  Mon Nov 25 10:05:42 2002
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:05:42 -0500
Subject: Python - Boost - Cygwin linker error
In-Reply-To: <bca37bb1.0211231942.24f4c2f5@posting.google.com>
References: <bca37bb1.0211231942.24f4c2f5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021125150542.GC1788@tishler.net>

St?phane,

On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 07:42:28PM -0800, St?phane Vaxelaire wrote:
> I get an error at link time that appears to occur between Boost code
> and python lib. Here is the output :
> 
> boost/libboost_python.a(extension_class.o)(.text+0x33a2): In function
> `operator_dispatcher_call_pow':
> /home/Steph/vegastrike/src/boost/extension_class.cpp:558: variable
> '_Py_NoneStruct' can't be auto-imported. Please read the documentation
> for ld's --enable-auto-import for details.
> Info: resolving _PyInt_Type by linking to __imp__PyInt_Type
> (auto-import)
> Info: resolving _PyLong_Type by linking to __imp__PyLong_Type
> (auto-import)
> Info: resolving _PyFloat_Type by linking to __imp__PyFloat_Type
> (auto-import)
> ... (there are a few other Info things ...
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Anyone can help me with this _Py_NoneStruct thing ?

The above can be solved by compiling the code that refers to
_Py_NoneStruct with -DUSE_DL_IMPORT.  This will cause _Py_NoneStruct to
be declared so that it can be imported (without auto-import) from the
Cygwin Python import library.

Note that this occurs automatically for Distutils built shared
extensions.  If Boost.Python is built using a different mechanism,
then -DUSE_DL_IMPORT will have to be specified manually.

Jason

-- 
PGP/GPG Key: http://www.tishler.net/jason/pubkey.asc or key servers
Fingerprint: 7A73 1405 7F2B E669 C19D  8784 1AFD E4CC ECF4 8EF6




From pieroul at attglobal.net  Sun Nov 17 10:38:16 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:38:16 -0500
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net> <mailman.1037506706.23922.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD7B7E8.2020402@attglobal.net>


John Hunter wrote:
>>>>>>"Pierre" == Pierre Rouleau <pieroul at attglobal.net> writes:
>>>>>
> 
>     Pierre> What's the most efficient way to merge two lists inside a
>     Pierre> single one with the resulting list having only one
>     Pierre> instance of each element (ie not having two elements with
>     Pierre> the same value)?
> 
>     Pierre> The order of the elements is not a criteria for the
>     Pierre> selection of the algorithm.
> 
> The best way will depend on the size of the list and the type of
> elements contained in each, but for Merge Lists 101, the best approach
> is to use a dictionary.
> 
> If you can afford the memory consumption, the following will give
> pretty good performance
> 
> l1 = [1,2,3,4]
> l2 = [2,3,12,14]
> 
> m = dict( [(x,1) for x in l1+l2])
> print m.keys()
> 
> If memory is an issue, you can process each list separately:
> 
> m1 = dict( [(x,1) for x in l1])
> m1.update( dict( [(x,1) for x in l2]))
> print m1.keys()
> 
> 
> The solutions above require a recent version of python (2.2+).  For
> older versions (<2.0), use the manual loop, which is slower but will
> run on pretty much any python
> 
> m = {}
> for x in l1+l2: 
>     m[x]=1
> print m.keys()
> 
>
Thanks!

Now, if i add two more criterias to the question, the solutions based on 
dictionary don't work. The criteria being:
  1) The input lists can contain elements of *any* type.
  2) The resulting list must always be the same for every execution with 
   identical input (deterministic results)

Your solution works if the elements that are inside the lists to merge 
are all hashable.  If one of the element of the list is not, it can't be 
entered as a dictionary key and the merge fails.  For example, all of 
your examples would fail mergin the following lists:

 >>> a = [1,2,[3,4,5],6]
 >>> b = [5,2,3]
 >>> m = dict( [(x,1) for x in a+b])
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: list objects are unhashable
 >>>

I came up with a function that will handle heterogenous lists containing 
anything, but its pretty much a brute force approach.  There ought to be 
a better way:

def uniq(*args) :
    theInputList = []
    for theList in args:
       theInputList += theList
    theFinalList = []
    for elem in theInputList:
       if elem not in theFinalList:
          theFinalList.append(elem)
    return theFinalList

 >>> a = [1,2,[3,4,5],6]
 >>> b = [5,2,3]
 >>> c = uniq(a,b)
 >>> c
[1, 2, [3, 4, 5], 6, 5, 3]
 >>>

It is also deterministic (the result list will always be the same in all 
executions given the same inputs for all computers).

Is there a more efficient way to merge heterogenous lists than the brute 
force approach used by uniq() above?

Thanks

Pierre





From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Nov 26 17:59:31 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:59:31 +1100
Subject: if <assignment>:
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A791@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

["implementation defined" vs "undefined"]

OK - I was being a bit facetious in the rant ... I do know what the formal
differences are.

The practical differences OTOH are none at all IMO - something that is
"implementation defined" may as well be "undefined" because for all intents
and purposes you can't use it. You can't even rely on it retaining its
behaviour across versions unless specifically stated that it will do so. If
you absolutely *must* use the behaviour, you have to resort to all kinds of
platform detection and various other things.

I make a strong recommendation to people I work with never to use anything
in any language which is not "well-defined". Just one of the reasons I like
Python - there are so few areas where behaviour is not "well-defined" - and
most of those cases are non-important (for example, whether or not two
references to equal integers reference the same object).

Tim Delaney



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Nov 15 04:01:20 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 01:01:20 -0800
Subject: What is the best way to join tuples?
In-Reply-To: <20021115051600.823.83734.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021115051600.823.83734.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18CcOI-0002iu-00@snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Thursday 14 November 2002 09:16 pm, dique wrote:
> Thanx Raymond and Terry! Both of you have great solutions.Work like a charm!

Welcome of course. Interesting problem really -- not quite as easy at it 
sounded.

> I wonder which is more efficient :p

Hearsay says that list comprehensions are slower than regular loops, but I've 
never actually compared them.  I doubt the difference is really noticeable.
Raymond's solution appears to be more general.

Personally, I'm more interested in which is clearer.  I always find that I 
can't write a list comprehension (beyond really trivial cases) until I've 
written the solution out as a loop. But after the fact, when I look at the 
two, the list comprehension seems clearer (even in this case).

But then I wonder, would it seem clear to someone coming to it fresh?

Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From rmunn at pobox.com  Thu Nov 21 09:03:00 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:03:00 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <areli6$ris$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnatlo5h.r3b.grante@localhost.localdomain> <arg8nn$kr2$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddba9d6$0$4464$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnato32g.dip.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <slrnatob8j.rni.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <slrnatpq4g.glf.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnato32g.dip.rmunn at rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>, Robin Munn wrote:
>> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I've seen plenty of apps that assume it doesn't wait all the
>>> time.  If I had a C compiler and knew how to write a simple
>>> console app for Win32, it would be easy enough to figure out
>>> how it really does work.  The Win32 guys I work with directly
>>> all write device drivers and none of them know how the
>>> user-land API works.
>> 
>> Google for "lcc-win32"; it's a complete IDE for Windows C/C++
>> development. It should be enough to let you produce some kind of simple
>> console app, at the very least.
> 
> I've got Borland C++ 5.01 installed.  I've managed to compile and run a
> 16-bit DOS "hello world" program, but I'm at a loss how to build a Win32
> console app.  I can't believe people pay money for these "IDE" things...
> 
> If I can't get Borland to work, I'll try lcc-win32.

I guess I forgot to mention that lcc-win32 is freeware (although not
Open Source).

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Wed Nov 27 20:49:25 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:49:25 -0800
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com> <mhc3sa.7q3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <vheauu8e2tl34jdp9uct3uncmj6qlls5qi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5ns3sa.t34.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

malik m fed this fish to the penguins on Wednesday 27 November 2002 
01:36 pm:

> On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:13:26 -0800, Dennis Lee Bieber
> <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>
>>        This looks like a homework assignment, and I'm probably going
>>        to
>>violate conventions (don't do their homework). Of course, by the time
>>my message shows up, you'll have seen all the line-by-line critiques.
>>
>>,----[ /home/wulfraed/t.py ]
>>| import string       # probably not needed in the newest versions of
>>Python
> 
> 
> what version of python are you using?

        I think it is 2.2 on Mandrake Linux 8.2; don't remember if I upgraded 
my W98 side from 2.2.

        Thing is, I don't do enough in Python to have learned all the changes 
from 1.5.x (which goes back to my Amiga days).

        Instead of

                string.upper(userin)

I could have used

                userin.upper()

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Fri Nov  8 16:37:24 2002
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 21:37:24 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9b8hqa.eo3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <aqhaqk$cj9$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
> Oleg fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 08 November 2002 04:54 am:
> 
> > Hi
> > 
> > I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
> > between Python and Common Lisp (
> > http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> > wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
> >
>         I have to wonder about any paper that describes Python as being like 
> LISP except with in-fix notation...

Well, that *would* explain why it's called Python and not Pyson. . . .

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	It is not easy, these days, to go beyond the bounds of taste.
					- Paul Goldberger




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Nov 16 09:57:28 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:57:28 GMT
Subject: Tkinter wart: bug or feature?
References: <3dd563db.9499247@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <eppstein-0E7234.13363215112002@news.service.uci.edu> <mailman.1037407464.4609.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-F9EDCF.20084015112002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <s1tB9.4925$1r1.171057@newsc.telia.net>

David Eppstein wrote:

> ...or do all the ugly bookkeeping necessary to make sure that image1
> gets deleted when and only when it is no longer needed

where all the "ugly bookkeeping necessary" is one extra line:

    lbl = Tkinter.Label(win.window, image=image1)
    lbl.photo = image1

which guarantees that the image won't be collected before
the widget itself.

> which is what I thought Python was supposed to save us from having
> to do.

    "When someone says 'I want a programming language in which I
    need only say what I wish done,' give him a lollipop." -- Alan Perlis

</F>




From zimmermann.edv at t-online.de  Thu Nov 28 04:55:42 2002
From: zimmermann.edv at t-online.de (Bernd Zimmermann)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:55:42 +0100
Subject: variable not being added, help
References: <pan.2002.11.28.08.36.04.997032.60987@nothanks.foo>
Message-ID: <as4p6u$nsjnv$1@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de>

"stibbs" <stibbs at nothanks.foo> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:pan.2002.11.28.08.36.04.997032.60987 at nothanks.foo...
> i'm 100% sure the mistake is on my part, but i can't seem to figure out
> what the problem is, as you can see by my comment in the code i tried 2
> different ways. I am trying to add to pw_attempts and have it stick.
>
>
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
>
> import sys
>
> username = raw_input("username?\n")
>
> def getpass():
> try:
> pw_attempts
> except NameError:
> pw_attempts = 0
>
> password1 = raw_input("password?\n")
> password2 = raw_input("re-enter password.\n")
> #pw_attempts = pw_attempts + 1
>
> if password1 != password2:
> pw_attempts = pw_attempts + 1
>
> if pw_attempts > 2:
> sys.exit()
> print pw_attempts
> print "your password does not match! Try again\n"
> getpass()
> else:
> pass
> getpass()
> print "Passwords Matched!"

The recursive invocation of getpass() does not provide any information
about the current number of attempts.
As long as pw_attempts is not provided as parameter or defined
global, it is locally to getpass() and  starts with a value of 0
each time getpass() is invoked.

this should work:

def getpass(pw_attempts=0): # provide a start value
    # ...
    if pw_attempts > 2:
        sys.exit()
    # ...
    getpass(pw_attempts) # start recursion with current value

Regards,
Bernd




From who at guess.com  Sun Nov 24 15:58:28 2002
From: who at guess.com (**IQ**)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:58:28 +0000
Subject: python and xchat
Message-ID: <arrehc$h7u$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hello
 With my xchat coming as standard with my suse install and me being new to 
python and linux, I have no way of knowing if xchat comes configured as 
standard to run python scripts.
If it does and all's  I nead is a xchat module so I can do an, import xchat, 
within my scripts, were would I get the xchat module, so I could install it 
into python.
Or does xchat nead installing again and for me to do a ./configure 
--with-python  or something similar?
And then get the xchat module as well.
 Could somebody please advise me, I tried a basic /sysinfo script made out 
of python source, which I placed in my ./xchat dir, and it didnt work.
Also upon my xhat tool bar, were it says scripts and plugins, the perl 
option, ie, load perl script, is clickable, but the python option is not, 
and is shaded out? why is this?
Is it because this version of xchat that I have on my system is not 
configured to run python scripts?
Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks.
I am running SuSE 8.1 personal.



From cimarron+google at taylors.org  Sat Nov  9 02:31:12 2002
From: cimarron+google at taylors.org (Cimarron Taylor)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 23:31:12 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <20021108.115059.1034949299.9010@cybermesa.com> <uso37rcegqdpf6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <29e28c51.0211082331.5198e0cf@posting.google.com>

> What makes Tcl look bad is
>   set rounded [expr int(a + 0.5)]

I agree.  Here what tclsh gives me:

% set a 1.03
1.03
% set rounded [expr int(a + 0.5)]
syntax error in expression "int(a + 0.5)"

Perhaps you intended to write:

% set rounded [expr int($a + 0.5)]
1

Cim


From gkrause at psipenta.com  Mon Nov  4 06:10:50 2002
From: gkrause at psipenta.com (Gernot Krause)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:10:50 +0100
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on AIX 4.3.3 / AIX 5.1
References: <3dc40e9c_2@news.vo.lu> <aq5j8o$t7i$1@innferno.news.tiscali.de>
Message-ID: <aq5jfi$t9a$1@innferno.news.tiscali.de>

oops -> right is python 2.2.2 and not 2.2.1b !






From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 12 09:25:05 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:25:05 GMT
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <bdb5b58f.0211111438.640885d2@posting.google.com> <aqpc4j$cl5$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <6q7kfjau4f.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <7h3y97y27ik.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> writes:

> python -c "a = b = 1L; exec('while 1: print a; a,b=b,a+b')"
> 
> It would be nice to get rid of that exec, too...

OK.  We can lose the print too:

python2.2 -c "a=b=1; eval(compile('while 1:a,b=b,a+b;a\n','','single'))"

That wasn't what you meant?  Oh well.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I never realized it before, but having looked that over I'm certain
  I'd rather have my eyes burned out by zombies with flaming dung
  sticks than work on a conscientious Unicode regex engine.
                                             -- Tim Peters, 3 Dec 1998


From benc1 at today.com.au  Sat Nov  2 08:56:01 2002
From: benc1 at today.com.au (Ben C)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 05:56:01 -0800
Subject: Using windll with complex data types
Message-ID: <8beb91f5.0211020556.30107507@posting.google.com>

Hi there,

I have just started to look at the windll module. As such I have been
trauling through numerous posts/google for some clear tutorials /
basic examples on how to map data from Python IO to a dll using the
windll module to no avail (as yet).

Accessing basic functions of a dll ( ie. functions that take basic
arguments such as integers etc) are not a problem. I have found a lot
of snippets for more complex examples which I have experimeted with,
but have not been able to find anything that I could really understand
in it's entirity ... so I have come to ask humbly for advice ...

Is there a tutorial or a faq that answer the q's below? The dynwin
package doesn't seem to have one?

How does one pass reference to a pointer in a function?

How does one retrieve data back from that pointer?

How does one retrieve data back from aggregate data types such as
structures and arrays?

Thanks in advance

Ben


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 12 16:27:12 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:27:12 -0800
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <mailman.1037127134.12999.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD17230.4A57CDD@alcyone.com>

Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:

> > This note is mostly for entertainment purposes.
> >
> > >>> x = (1, 2, 3)
> [...]
> > >>> x += (4, 5, 6)
> 
> Hey, shouldn't this raise an exception?

No, not anymore than

	x = 1
	x += 1

should.  += (and the other assignment combination operators) will use
the same object when it's mutable, but actually does a rebinding when
immutable.  For instance,

	L = [1, 2, 3]
	L += [4, 5, 6]

is the equivalent of

	L = [1, 2, 3]
	L.extend([4, 5, 6])

but 

	x = 1
	x += 1

actually does the equivalent of

	x = 1
	x = x + 1

Since tuples are immutable, using the += operator on them does the
latter (resulting an a rebinding), not the former.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If a thing is worth doing, then it is worth doing badly.
\__/ G.K. Chesterton
    ZOE / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/zoe/
 A simple Python OpenGL rendering engine.


From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Tue Nov 26 15:40:29 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 20:40:29 GMT
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net> <slrnau5ahl.q7v.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <1038264655.1697.137.camel@software1.logiplex.internal> <mailman.1038272196.32714.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as0m7t$leu$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> "Cliff" == Cliff Wells <LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net> writes:
> 
>    Cliff> Perhaps the Ruebot should be considered for honorary
>    Cliff> "Village Idiot" status on c.l.py.  The subject line on all
>    Cliff> of his posts could be prefixed with "[Comedy Relief]" to
>    Cliff> help avoid misunderstandings.
> 
> At least he's in good company.  I only knew of 3:
> 
>  bots = ['effbot', 'martellibot', 'timbot']
>  bots.append('ruebot')
> 

Interestingly, people have been calling him ruebot since before he
posted on comp.lang.python; try google searches (or google groups
searches) for him and you'll see they've been calling him ruebot
since at least '99.

See also some PSU opinions, for those in the now.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ruebot+group:comp.lang.python&hl=nl&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=afnrdv%24els%241%40newshost.accu.uu.nl&rnum=1

grok:
  Continue with posting here as if I never said anything about PSU.



From greg2567 at yahoo.com.au  Mon Nov  4 21:53:45 2002
From: greg2567 at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Greg=20Aumann?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:53:45 +1100 (EST)
Subject: file iterators and codecs, a bug?
In-Reply-To: <HLEMLFBIHMLILMGCNENOAELPCFAA.Greg_Aumann@sil.org>
Message-ID: <20021105025345.21463.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>

 --- Greg Aumann wrote: 
> Recently I figured out how to use iterators and
> generators. Quite easy to
> use and a great improvement.
> 

Sorry for the double posting. This is my first post to
this mailing list and when it didn't appear for the
best part of a day I assumed it had fallen into a bit
bucket and reposted it from a different address.

Greg Aumann

http://careers.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Careers
- 1,000's of jobs waiting online for you!



From fb at ultranet.com  Thu Nov 14 00:11:20 2002
From: fb at ultranet.com (fbasegmez)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 21:11:20 -0800
Subject: Installing dislin (scientific data plotting software)
References: <3DD12A29.8B34ED2C@cs.nott.ac.uk> <3DD26D66.C96D0C5F@cs.nott.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bb93d188.0211132111.59ae98ff@posting.google.com>

Turhan Ozen <txo at cs.nott.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<3DD26D66.C96D0C5F at cs.nott.ac.uk>...
[... snip ... ]
> 
> Is there any other recommendations either for using dislin or any advise
> on a powerful plotting tool to use with python apart from dislin?
> 
> --

If you need to plot scientific charts without using images, Biggles
(biggles.sourceforge.net) is fairly easy to use to generate
postscript, gif etc. formatted output. I've just started looking at
the Reportlab (reportlab.com) package and found it very capable. 
Eventhough you need to spend a little bit more time to get starting,
it generates very nice looking documents.

Fahri Basegmez


From imbosol at vt.edu  Sun Nov 10 21:57:55 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:57:55 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <aqn83f$gou$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Carl Banks wrote:
> Pascal Costanza wrote:
>> ...and so on. Now here is another nice macro.
>> 
>> (defmacro apply-operators (op-list arg-list)
>>     `(loop for op in ',op-list
>>            do (format t " ~A: ~A~%" op (funcall op , at arg-list))))
>
[snip]
> 
> I really don't think this is the best example for an advantage of Lisp
> syntax, if that's what you were trying to do, since it's trivial in
> Python also.
> 
> def apply_operators(oplist,arglist)
>    for op in oplist:
>        print "%s: %s" % (op.__name__, reduce(op,arglist))


Before someone else notices, the Python example isn't the same: unlike
the Lisp version, it doesn't handle empty lists.  That *isn't* trivial
to do in Python, and this kind of nicety of Lisp syntax probably does
come in handy once in awhile.

So, I retract my insinuation that it isn't a good example of an
advantage of Lisp syntax.  (But I still say it should be a function.)


-- 
CARL BANKS


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 24 18:15:52 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 23:15:52 GMT
Subject: Coaxing DWORD values out of a Binary file...
References: <aFcE9.8069$It3.814405@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <arrmj8$9l6$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:46:30 GMT, "adeptus" <adeptus at earthlink.net> wrote:

>(in an attempt to write a utility to ginsu the data from Buzz .bm? files)
>I'm loosing my mind trying to read DWORD values out of a binary file.
>
>I've tried unpacking them via the struct module, (by passing them in as 4
>byte strings) but the numbers I get don't seem to make any sense for the
>file format...
>
>Am I making a naive assumption about how VC++ would write a DWORD to a
>binary file???
>
>I'm also assuming that:
>    (i386 centric)
>    8-Bits = 1 Char = 1 Byte
>    1 Word = 2 Bytes
>    1 DWORD = 4 Bytes
>
>What I'm asking is, what is proper officially pythonic way of accessing
>DWORD values stored in a binary file by a VC++ program???
>
It depends. You don't specify whether the data was written out of an array
of DWORDS or whether you are trying to find individual DWORDS in buried
in some kind of record structs or what.

Since the program is going to be trivial, why don't you post a test snippet
to show what you are doing. And maybe a little hex dump from the front of the
file, so we know what it actually is. Maybe you just forgot to open the file
in binary, but without a code snippet with a copy of interactive session results
it's (kind of annoying, since we're not mindreaders ;-) guesswork.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From omarmaj at talk21.com  Tue Nov 26 07:32:00 2002
From: omarmaj at talk21.com (o maj)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 04:32:00 -0800
Subject: Website development and python
Message-ID: <29e8aa77.0211260432.4743830c@posting.google.com>

Hello,
I work with a team who set up networks and databases for small
companies. We have been repeatedly asked if we could also design their
websites, but we dont have much knowledge or experience in that.

I know a bit of python, xml and html(designed my webpage few years ago
in notepad, but I'm sure theres more to it than that for professional
dev)
Sorry i dont know much about programming in the web, the only prog'g i
do is sql/xml database manipulation, and previously in uni I used C
and later python for my mechanical engineering programming.

Without learning new languages like java and php, how do i get
started?
Surfing the web, i see all sorts of tools. But i dont know how they
fit in, or whether i need them.

Could someone please give me a big picture of the various tools and
methods i need, and where they fit in the puzzle and also where I can
find more resources?
Thanks


From owen at nospam.invalid  Tue Nov 12 14:19:21 2002
From: owen at nospam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:19:21 -0800
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <aqrka3$1emk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In my own learning of Python I found a fair number of warnings about the 
problem you mentioned, so I feel it is pretty well documented. On the 
other hand, it was a familiar problem from Smalltalk and I may just have 
gotten lucky in my reading.

If you are collecting pitfalls, here's my least favorite: "never use a 
mutable object as a default value". A classic example:

def badfunc(alist=[]):
   ...

The default value of alist will not stay [] (an empty list) but instead 
is affected by whatever you pass in for "alist". Very tricky and 
unpleasant.

Here's my usual solution:
def okfunc(alist=None):
   alist = alist or []
   ...

-- Russell


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Mon Nov 11 02:51:29 2002
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:51:29 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:09:05 +0100."
             <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <E18B9M1-0002f0-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> wrote:

> ...or some nice examples. ;)
>
>  > (+ 1 1)
> 2
>
>  > (+ 1 1 1)
> 3
>
>  > (+ 1 1 1 2)
> 5
>
>  > (+ 2)
> 2
>
>  > (+)
> 0
>
>  > (*)
> 1

Bah.

>>> import operator
>>> def plus(* args):
...     return reduce(operator.add, args, 0)
...
>>> plus()
0
>>> plus(1)
1
>>> plus(1, 1)
2
>>> plus(1, 1, 1)
3
>>> plus(1, 1, 1, 2)
5

Implementing mul is left as an exercise <wink>.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From camhorn at mac.com  Wed Nov 13 17:26:14 2002
From: camhorn at mac.com (Cameron Horn)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:26:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
Message-ID: <1949744.1037226374364.JavaMail.camhorn@mac.com>

 
On Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002, at 02:19PM, <sismex01 at hebmex.com> wrote:

>> From: Cameron Horn [mailto:camhorn at mac.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:20 PM
>>  
>> On Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002, at 02:16PM, David Eppstein 
>> <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 11/13/02 2:11 PM -0800 Cameron Horn <camhorn at mac.com> wrote:
>> >>> What I wonder is, why does it need to be a generator?  
>> What's wrong with
>> >>> def foo(): return ( )
>> >>> ?
>> >>
>> >> You're right if it's a one-time thing.  However, if I've got a
>> >> scaffolding like this, then it matters.
>> >>
>> >> def process_generator(function):
>> >>    for x in function():
>> >>       print x
>> >
>> >How does the function foo() I defined above fail to work in this 
>> >scaffolding?
>> 
>> In the "TypeError: iteration over non-sequence" sort of way.
>>
>
>An empty tuple is a sequence also;
>
>the "return ( )" thing is returning an empty tuple,
>not "None".  You can make it clearer by using
>"return tuple()" rather than "return ()".

Oops.  Missed those parentheses.  Then it is completely useful, unless you end up using the "next" method.



From jb at cascade-sys.com  Fri Nov 15 01:17:28 2002
From: jb at cascade-sys.com (James J. Besemer)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:17:28 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org> <3DD47156.683F18B3@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3DD49178.2030305@cascade-sys.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Condensing all that to 16 pages is, well, not going to do it much
> justice.  

Doing "justice" to the language is not the objective.  Providing a "crib 
sheet" for earstwhile experts is the primary purpose.

Keep in mind these are "pocket reference CARDs".  Once upon a time, these 
tools were pretty ubiqutious.  They often were not booklets, but simply a 
cardboard sheet that folds acordian-style to pocket size.  "Pages" were 3.5 x 
8 in.

The intended audience is people who already know the domain but occasionally 
need to double-check some detail, not necessarily newbies just starting out. 
  E.g., IIRC, It gave the syntax for all the control structs in less than 1 
page -- what is there to say about them really?  One page for operator 
precedence.  It gave name and arg signature for stdio functions but not any 
lengthy description.  Partial page to outline template syntax.  Etc.

I can't find the original ones for C/C++ and Standard libraries.  However, I 
have an analogous "pocket reference" for the PowerPC -- 8 pages for the 
entire architecture and instruction set.  Of course, it assumes you already 
know the meaning of IBAT, DBAT, STWU, STWX, etc.

The current Python "pocket" ref is much more verbose than this standard.

 > I have serious doubts about the utility of a reference claiming

Claiming?

I dunno.  During most of the 90s I always kept a set in my briefcase and 
found them helpful from time to time.

Regards

--jb

-- 
James J. Besemer		503-280-0838 voice
2727 NE Skidmore St.		503-280-0375 fax
Portland, Oregon 97211-6557	mailto:jb at cascade-sys.com
				http://cascade-sys.com	





From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sat Nov 16 08:47:35 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 13:47:35 +0000
Subject: lisp scheme lush python etc.
References: <mailman.1036769111.29831.python-list@python.org> <9a6d7d9d.0211120754.5245cc65@posting.google.com> <3dd56449.9609081@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <mailman.1037413586.27796.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfsk7jd62yw.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:

> I would doubt there would be much if any speed improvement in writing a
> Lisp interpreter for Python.  The current interpreter is written in C,
> which optimizes quite nicely.  There could be some speed improvement by

I should imagine that having a good garbage collection and efficient abstract
types and so on and so forth already available would help. And I'd similarly
expect that writing an optimizing compiler is far easier in a high level
language with powerful abstractions and code-rewriting and generation
facilities than in C.


> *compiling* Python into Lisp.  But a great number of the reasons Python
> isn't as fast as a fast Lisp has to do with semantic issues -- Python
> has certain flexibilities that make it harder to optimize.

What performance hindering flexibilities do you think python has and lisp
lacks?

> 
> But of course it's not impossible to compile into Lisp, perhaps with
> some advantages -- but why not introduce those same optimizations Lisp
> has into CPython, Psycho, Plex, Numeric, or other Python efforts?  I
> think that would actually be considerably easier.

All the high-performance Lisp implementations I know of are written in Lisp --
precisely because it would be too hard to write them in C. So lifting these
optimizations might not be all that easy.

> 
>   Ian
> 
> 

alex


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov  7 11:32:13 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 16:32:13 GMT
Subject: Times and dates
References: <aqe176$r9t$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <aqe4id$ug5$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:32:10 +0100, "YorizZ" <yorizz at forpresident.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm abit confused about the time and stuff in Python.
>I want to run my program from the commandline and give it two arguments.
>those two strings need to be converted to date or time types.
>I know that i can create a string from a date with strtime(date), but not
>the other way around..
>
Your question leaves a lot to guess about ;-)

Have you looked at

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-time.html

If that doesn't have what you need, make a stab at some code
and post it, together with an example of the input and output
you would like. Then people will have a better idea of how to help.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com  Fri Nov 15 18:14:30 2002
From: hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:14:30 GMT
Subject: module to generate RTF?
Message-ID: <xqxbs4qwhm1.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

We need to traverse a database, and generate a Word document.  If we
do that via COM, we are locked into running on a MS WIn** box, so we'd
prefer to do RTF.  I can generate the raw RTF codes inline with write
statements, but it would be nice if someone had already done some
syntactic sugar on that.  Anything available?


-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757


From trilok.agarwal at oracle.com  Tue Nov 12 17:10:53 2002
From: trilok.agarwal at oracle.com (tagarwal)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:10:53 -0800
Subject: running batch scripts 
Message-ID: <%ZeA9.7$sN2.52@news.oracle.com>

Hi
anyone can help me to write a python script to invoke a windows batch script
(.bat file)
and then keeping the cmd (cmd.exe or the dos window)window alive so as to
use the same window to run some other commands.
I tried using popen2, but how do i tell the cmd.exe to execute the command
once i place the command on stdin.
Thx
TRILOK.




From pdm at zamazal.org  Mon Nov  4 04:20:25 2002
From: pdm at zamazal.org (Milan Zamazal)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 10:20:25 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <873cqktmb7.fsf@zamazal.org> <m3lm4biwdl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87wuntr8rq.fsf@zamazal.org>

>>>>> "MvL" == Martin v Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:

    MvL> While this might be true for TeX in general, it is not true for
    MvL> the Python documentation. This is deliberately restricted to
    MvL> only use commands for which automatic processing already is
    MvL> available.

OK, that was unknown to me.  If so, then the LaTeX format is completely
fine for me.  What parser of the Python LaTeX sources do you mean and
where can I get it from?

Thanks,

Milan Zamazal

-- 
real programmer?  don't get me started.  if you need to hide your
pathetic excuse for a carreer behind super-macho languages like C, C++,
and/or Perl instead of writing clean, maintainable, efficient code, you
aren't much of a real programmer in my view.  -- Erik Naggum in comp.emacs


From rodrigobamboo at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 22 19:23:44 2002
From: rodrigobamboo at hotmail.com (Rodrigo B. de Oliveira)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 16:23:44 -0800
Subject: Python embedding question: how to expose a new "builtin"?
References: <ad9ea6f1.0211190807.73bfe1a1@posting.google.com> <awtC9.38553$Yw.1818910@news2.tin.it> <ad9ea6f1.0211211611.49f526e9@posting.google.com> <nQnD9.56004$Yw.2561144@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ad9ea6f1.0211221623.3180e4f7@posting.google.com>

> > 
> > After the code "dir(type(application))" executes everything works as
> > expected (application is correctly installed and I can call its
> > methods and access its properties).
> > 
> > What could be possibly causing this behavior?
> 
> Never saw it happen before.  Maybe you're not calling PyType_Ready, or
> something of that ilk...?
> 

Uops... That's what sleepless nights and no caffeine do to you :-) My
init function had the following statements:
<snip>
if (PyType_Ready(&isapy_ExtensionControlBlockType) &&
    PyType_Ready(&isapy_ApplicationType))
{
    return;
}
</snip>

The damage a short circuiting operation can cause, eh?

Thanks very much for the help!
Rodrigo


From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Mon Nov  4 16:47:28 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:47:28 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
Message-ID: <3npdsu4sahrc3eb6q6ukibqlf8laljs7qe@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 22:10:04 +0100, Daniel Pfeiffer
<occitan at esperanto.org> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>this morning it struck me that it would be nice to have Parrot not only run Perl 6 and similar byte code, but that any of the common interpreted languages be compiled to this same byte code.
>
>Then no matter whether running a Perl 6, Python, Ruby, Tcl maybe even bash script the same interpreter library would be used.  Then likely it would already be in memory speeding up start time.
>
>And this would also ease cross language module/library inclusion.  Imagine instantiating some Python class from Perl!
>
>Apache would essentially have a mod_parrot.  Maybe, if this can be tested very hard, we'd even have a Parrot kernel module for all Unices supporting that.  Then exec() could perform compiled scripts right away, like machine code :-)
>
>coralament / best Gr?tens / liebe Gr??e / best regards / elkorajn salutojn
>Daniel Pfeiffer

I think this was one of the early design goals of the people working
on Parrot.  In fact, the name Parrot is taken from a April Fools hoax
merging of the worst parts of Perl and Python.  But, having an
efficient common backend for several languages is a sound engineering
decision, so it is no longer a joke!

In fact I believe I read a "proof-of-concept" version of Python is
already running in Parrot.

.NET is already doing this for Windows.  Not too popular because the
only way to do it is to buy Visual Studio.NET or download the massive
free .NET runtime.  As Microsoft shoves .NET down more and more
throats, expect to see this at a computer near you.

There are some doubts about Parrot outside of the Perl community.
Larry Wall was adamant that Parrot would be a register machine, and
not a stack machine, but outside of the Perl community, people are
uncertain about Parrot's ability to do efficient register allocation.

Take this with a grain of salt, I avoid Perl whenever I can, and I get
all my Parrot news from Slashdot  :-P


From pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Nov 28 12:22:29 2002
From: pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:22:29 +0100
Subject: Distributing python applications for Windows users
References: <mailman.1038491740.29243.python-list@python.org> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0211281604350.3218-100000@for.mat>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.28.18.22.29.361243.727@thomas-guettler.de>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:06:49 +0100, Martyn Quick wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Simon Brunning wrote:
>>  
>> I like py2exe - <http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/>.
> 
> How exactly do you use py2exe?  Do I have to list all parts of my
> program in the setup command, or just the script that I call to run it?
> 
> I did try using py2exe, but it complained that it couldn't find os.path
> which I was importing.  I then switched to importing os instead and
> py2exe then worked, but the exe file it produced didn't do anything.
> 
> Perhaps I've found a bug, but more likely I'm doing something wrong.

I think it is important that you use the correct version. py2exe 
can be downloaded for the latest python versions.

I use it like this:

# setup.py
from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe

setup(name="uploadclient",
      scripts=["uploadclient.py"],
          )

than run it:
python setup.py py2exe
--> The result is in dist/uploadclient/uploadclient.exe

Unfortunately there are some other files (python.dll) which is needed,
too.

I do the installer with INNO Setup.

Hope that helps

  thomas


-- 
Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
http://www.thomas-guettler.de


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Nov 11 09:20:23 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:20:23 -0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <20021108.135935.824272813.9010@cybermesa.com> <usoc5fda35flc6@corp.supernews.com> <20021108.151956.846811127.9010@cybermesa.com>
Message-ID: <usvf57j77oit87@corp.supernews.com>

In article <20021108.151956.846811127.9010 at cybermesa.com>,
Jay O'Connor <joconnor at cybermesa.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>However, my comparison was to Python, and in that respect TCL is
>substandard to both Python(and a whole host of other languages
>invented since C)
			.
			.
			.
>Yes, I notice non of the proposals can scale easily beyond simplistic
>usage in either size of problem space or complexity of problem.
			.
			.
			.
While we don't see the elided examples in the
same way, I shan't argue the point.  Yes, Tcl
does not build in scalable ways to model
complex data structures.  HOWEVER, it's now
easy to augment core Tcl with such mature
object-oriented extensions as [incr Tcl] <URL:
http://wiki.tcl.tk/itcl >, which are entirely
comparable to Python and other familiar languages
in the syntax of their class expressions.

Summary:  it's part of the Tcl way to have a
small core, and use extensions when you're pro-
gramming in a domain where those extensions are
advantageous.  I do not insist that you agree
with that engineering choice.  I ask that it
be represented accurately.

Again, it sounds as though your work experience
with Tcl was quite unpleasant, and there's cer-
tainly no need for you to spend more time with
it.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From aaron at metrony.com  Mon Nov 25 15:02:44 2002
From: aaron at metrony.com (Aaron Held)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 12:02:44 -0800
Subject: SSL problem - followup
Message-ID: <4e226128.0211251202.15c531e3@posting.google.com>

Responding to an old thread.

Another workaround to the IIS / SSL bug 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470&func=detail&aid=494762

Using the MixIn class from Webware under Windows:
Python 2.2.1 (#34, Apr  9 2002, 19:34:33) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32

Call the following before any SSL calls:

import httplib
import socket
from MiscUtils.MixIn import MixIn
from cStringIO import StringIO

class FakeSocketIISFix:
    def makefile(self, mode, bufsize=None):
        """Return a readable file-like object with data from socket.

        This method offers only partial support for the makefile
        interface of a real socket.  It only supports modes 'r' and
        'rb' and the bufsize argument is ignored.

        The returned object contains *all* of the file data
        With IIS EOF Fix - ADH
        """
        if mode != 'r' and mode != 'rb':
            raise UnimplementedFileMode()

        msgbuf = []
        while 1:
            try:
                buf = self._FakeSocket__ssl.read()
            except socket.sslerror, err:
                if err[0] == 5 :
                    #quickbase workaround
                    break
                if (err[0] == socket.SSL_ERROR_WANT_READ
                    or err[0] == socket.SSL_ERROR_WANT_WRITE
                    or 0):
                    continue
                if err[0] == socket.SSL_ERROR_ZERO_RETURN:
                    break
                raise
            except socket.error, err:
                if err[0] == errno.EINTR:
                    continue
                raise
            if buf == '':
                break
            msgbuf.append(buf)
        return StringIO("".join(msgbuf))

MixIn(httplib.FakeSocket,FakeSocketIISFix)


-Aaron


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Nov  8 12:16:59 2002
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:16:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9ROy9.7069$8P5.4238@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <87y984avx2.fsf@theasylum.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <aqgrib$q4$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Tim Lavoie <tool_man at spamcop.net> writes:
> I still haven't
>figured out how to slide some Intercal in at work though...  :)

Intercal! don't be such a wuss - have a look at
http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/madore/programs/unlambda/

Eddie


From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov 25 16:16:47 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:16:47 +1100
Subject: setting a socket to multicast
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.11.25.12.26.38.792181@imperialviolet.org>
References: <mailman.1038221915.8750.python-list@python.org> <pan.2002.11.25.12.26.38.792181@imperialviolet.org>
Message-ID: <200211260816.48053.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:26, Adam Langley wrote:
<snip>
> From the ip(7) manpage:
> 	IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP: Join  a  multicast  group.  Argument  is  a  struct
>               ip_mreqn structure.
>
> I don't think the Python setsockopt function is smart enough to see the
> IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP option and build the struct. I suggest you look into
>    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-struct.html
> and build a struct ip_mreqn
Thanks - makes sense, but I'm not there yet. I think I'm creating the 
structure properly, but still no joy:

<code>
#This from Python Cookbook, recipe 10.5
#Credits: Alex Martelli, Greg Jorgenen
def dottedQuadtoNum(ip):
    "convert decimal dotted quad string to long integer"
    return struct.unpack('>L', socket.inet_aton(ip))[0]

port = 5353
addr = '224.0.0.251'

ip_mreqn = struct.pack('IIi', dottedQuadtoNum(addr), 0, 0)
print struct.unpack('IIi', ip_mreqn)

s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_IP, socket.IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP, ip_mreqn)
</code>

Which produces:
(3758096635L, 0L, 0)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "udpserver.py", line 18, in ?
    s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_IP, socket.IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP, ip_mreqn)
socket.error: (22, 'Invalid argument')

More ideas?

Brad
- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From boiko at demogr.mpg.de  Wed Nov  6 12:36:34 2002
From: boiko at demogr.mpg.de (Serge Boiko)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 18:36:34 +0100
Subject: wxPython or PyQt
Message-ID: <m2lm4661nh.fsf@boiko_linux.demogr.mpg.de>

Hi, guys, 
I'm a user of PyQt and I believe this library is very nice, it
supports Xft, it has very flexible signal-slots mechanism, and
enormous collection of widgets and other useful classes, but I
noticed that many projects use wxPython instead.

What are the advantages of wxPython over PyQt or it's just a matter of
licensing policies: wxPython is free on every platform it supports,
meanwhile PyQt (or Qt) is completely free only under X?

Looking forward to hearing from you.

-Serge




From mrea at commerceworks.on.ca  Thu Nov 14 16:12:41 2002
From: mrea at commerceworks.on.ca (Marlon Rea)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:12:41 -0500
Subject: Open and reading a file...
Message-ID: <clUA9.14453$md7.1204247@news20.bellglobal.com>

    Can someone help me with opening and reading a file???? THANK YOU ALL




From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Sat Nov 16 14:06:41 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:06:41 GMT
Subject: My Python Editor "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE" does not refesh
References: <mailman.1037422524.22358.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <705dtu4o1i1bbmr26etsfptuahrnj3i0ke@4ax.com>

On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 04:53:57 +0000 (GMT), kathik thyagarajan
<karthik_qmax at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
(edit)
>I am having the trouble of having to exit the editor every time I make
>some changes to my code in order to execute the code using the
>"ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE"  editor.

To the left of the "Run" button on the toolbar is the "Import/Reload"
button.  The "Import/Reload" button looks like 3 sheets of paper with
a little curved arrow.  When you change a module that is imported by
another module, you have to "Import/Reload" the module that changed,
or else when you run the main module that has the "import" at the top,
you will see no change.

The reason is that all your time in PythonWin running different
programs, is actually one long continuous session.  Without using the
"Import/Reload" button, Python does nothing when it sees an "import"
statement for a module already imported.  "Import/Reload" forces a
reload.

Manuel


From danielk at aracnet.com  Wed Nov  6 17:19:02 2002
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:19:02 -0800
Subject: IBM MQ Series
Message-ID: <385jsuktrr6nb7eaffe99j2673jo1u3egq@4ax.com>

Is there a Python interface for this, such that I can connect to a MQ
server and send/recv messages?

Dan.


From oussoren at cistron.nl  Wed Nov  6 01:38:18 2002
From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:38:18 +0100
Subject: List slice assignment and custom sequences
In-Reply-To: <7h3r8dz27ul.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <55DE8186-F152-11D6-A85E-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>

On Tuesday, Nov 5, 2002, at 19:26 Europe/Amsterdam, Michael Hudson 
wrote:

> Blindly trusting the answer of PyObject_Length() can easily lead to
> core dumps.  But now Python has this wonderful PySequence_Fast API
> that wraps up all the nasty details while keeping the common case
> fast, so supporting user-defined sequences is now trivial.
>
> Everyone writing C extensions should know about PySequence_Fast().
Interesting, I'll have a look at this API.

>
>> A third answer is inertia.  Python has been moving to a more
>> generalized notion of sequence and even iterable but slice assignment
>> got overlooked -- until you gave a push.
>
> Indeed.

Glad to be of help, even with an awful (and not applied) patch :-)

Ronald




From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Tue Nov  5 16:33:01 2002
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 21:33:01 +0000
Subject: Running PyQt on Win32
In-Reply-To: <ylWx9.38152$gF2.1406335@nlnews00.chello.com>
References: <ylWx9.38152$gF2.1406335@nlnews00.chello.com>
Message-ID: <200211052133.01185.phil@river-bank.demon.co.uk>

On Tuesday 05 November 2002 9:02 pm, Joost van Rooij wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to develop gui apps for both win32 als linux. I tried using
> the wxpython framework but I found it rather slow with Python. Therefore I
> looked further and stumbled on PyQt. I would like to develop my apps under
> linux but I would like them to run on Win32 as well.
>
> Now my question is what software do I need on a win32 workstation to run
> this software (besides Python :)  I don't want to install the qt library on
> my a Windows system just for running my Python apps.

You have 4 choices - all of which involve installing Qt in one form or another 
(I'm not sure how you think you can avoid that).

1. Use the non-commercial versions of Qt and PyQt. Pro: cheap. Con: Only for 
non-commercial use, based on an older version of Qt.

2. Buy the commercial versions of Qt and PyQt. Pro: use for any purpose, 
royalty free distribution of your application, latest version of Qt. Con: 
most expensive option.

3. Buy the personal edition of BlackAdder. Pro: latest version of Qt (or will 
be soon), relatively cheap. Con: only for personal use.

4. Buy the business edition of BlackAdder. Pro: use for any purpose, latest 
version of Qt (or will be soon), royalty free distribution of your 
application. Con: cost (but less than option 2).

Phil



From zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Nov 12 07:21:46 2002
From: zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:21:46 +0100
Subject: win32: own content-type --> start python script
Message-ID: <aqqrfq$a1m$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi!

Does someone know how I can install
a fileextension on win32, so that if I download
a file with this extension in a browser
a script at the client get's called?

Of course the script needs to be installed before
it. It is an intranet solution.

At best, this script should be called directly, without
asking the user if he wants to download or start the
given application with this file.

  thomas



From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Wed Nov 20 19:06:44 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:06:44 +1100
Subject: DNS server in python
Message-ID: <200211211106.44776.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

G'day,

I'm working on Zeroconf networking (http://zeroconf.sf.net), and the next 
problem I'd like to look at is multicast DNS and Link Local Multicast Name 
Resolution (two different solutions to much the same problem).

In the long term, I'll likely use one of the C implementations (Apple has one, 
released under APSL; and the KAME project has another, under a BSD license).

However while this is being sorted out, I'd like a portable, scripted version. 
Python seems right :)

So I'm looking for a DNS server in python, if it is already written. I've done 
some searching on freshmeat.net and sourceforge, and also a bit of Googling, 
but the only thing that looked like it might be of use was dynDNS, 
http://freshmeat.net/projects/dyndns/?topic_id=250
However the link is broken. Grrr.

Has anyone else played with implementing a DNS server in python? Any code, 
tips, advice or links?

Brad
- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE93COUW6pHgIdAuOMRAumRAKC7NlVCOhALCw4KmKHPFd8fxZz7eQCdGw4N
7vNW9w6AoYEUE9EQtUJjTjA=
=iFM0
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From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov 10 03:22:29 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:22:29 GMT
Subject: Member variable in object spontaneously turns to None
References: <15a857d.0211092046.549df8c2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9Hoz9.16592$XO.765355@news2.tin.it>

Norbert wrote:
   ...
> print "%d" % matrix[1][1].x
>   None
> 
> I am perplexed. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

So am I: I think the latter behavior is impossible -- if that x attribute
was None, no matter how it became so, you'd get a TypeError
from the formatting operator (since you're using %d, not %s) --
a result string of 'None' from '%d'%... is impossible for any RHS
operand of %.  I'm completely unable to reproduce the problem
you report.

Can you please try to reproduce the problem in a small complete
script?  Otherwise I'll have to assume that what you posted was
not a copy-and-paste of observed behavior, but a summary that
happened to omit crucial information.


Alex



From bloke at ii.net  Thu Nov  7 06:35:49 2002
From: bloke at ii.net (Rob Hall)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 03:35:49 -0800
Subject: idiom for initialising variables
References: <3dc964fa$0$12989@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <3dc96ebe$0$13004@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

Thanks Eric, Trent and Frederick.  You are champions who explain well
without making one feel stupid.

R




From root at [127.0.0.1]  Wed Nov 20 06:09:02 2002
From: root at [127.0.0.1] (nobody)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:09:02 +1000
Subject: Deep XML modification..
Message-ID: <3ddb6d4f$0$18869$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

Whats the best way to modify deep branches of XML?  The tree is eight levels
deep, so I have a forrest of cloneNode and replaceChild, to propogate
changes from the leaves back to the root Document.  There has got to be a
better way?  I also want to avoid pre-sorting the data into a list, and keep
it entirely XML if possible.

I'm using DOM but SAX will do just as well, I don't care either way.  The
Python XML HOWTO was pretty thin, and DOM was easier to figure out :)





From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Nov 27 14:34:08 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:34:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: More pythonic way to change an element of a tuple?
In-Reply-To: <as314e$c4u$2@naig.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211271133020.10129-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Richard Muller wrote:

> I frequently have to change a single element of a tuple, and I wind up 
> doing something like this:
> 
> tmp = list(data_in_tuple)
> tmp[item] += 1
> data_in_tuple = tuple(tmp)
> 
> Is there a more beautiful way of doing this? Seems a bit awkward.

Is there a reason why the data is in a tuple? Why not just always leave it 
in a list? Tuples are meant to be immutable, so if you find yourself 
mutating them, maybe the best best is simply not use them.

-Dave




From pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr  Thu Nov  7 13:12:59 2002
From: pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr (Pedro RODRIGUEZ)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:12:59 +0100
Subject: Times and dates
References: <aqe176$r9t$1@reader1.tiscali.nl> <aqe343$9kd$1@news.schlund.de> <aqe3lq$sqt$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <aqe9u8$468$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>

On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:14:04 +0100, YorizZ wrote:

> "Carsten Gaebler" <clpy at snakefarm.org> schreef in bericht
> news:aqe343$9kd$1 at news.schlund.de...
>> YorizZ wrote:
>>
>> > I know that i can create a string from a date with strtime(date), but
> not
>> > the other way around..
>>
>> strptime() may be your friend if your platform supports it:
> 
> Yeah,
> 
> I know about that.
> Unfortunately i have to deal with windows...

So why not start here :
http://py.vaults.ca/apyllo.py?find=strptime

and pick up your choice

Pedro


From lists at battleface.com  Tue Nov 19 20:27:33 2002
From: lists at battleface.com (Alexander Sendzimir)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:27:33 GMT
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com> <pan.2002.11.19.13.54.54.356611@battleface.com> <mailman.1037751635.2665.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.20.00.36.48.441121@battleface.com>

Come to think of it, you're right!

The regex ids are a hold over. Whether using a list or a
dictionary, regex and handler are sufficient.

Why re and no sre?

Thanks, John.


Alex




On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:16:02 +0000, jdhunte wrote:

> 
> Wouldn't it be a simpler and more readily maintainable design drop the
> regex_ids and use a list of tuples where the first element is a rgx
> and the second element is an action?  In your version you have to
> maintain a dictionary and a list, as well as (somewhat superfluous)
> regex ids.
> 
> import re                                         # you do want the re wrapper, not sre
> lines = map(str,range(3))                         # some dummy lines for testing
> handler1 = handler2 = handler3 = lambda x: None   # some very dumb handlers
> 
> regexs = (
>     ( re.compile( r'regex1' ), handler1 ),
>     ( re.compile( r'regex2' ), handler2 ),
>     ( re.compile( r'regex3' ), handler3 ),
>     )
> 
> for line in lines :
>    for (rgx, action) in regexs:
>       m = rgx.match( line )
>       if m: action(m)
>         
> 
> John Hunter



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 15 21:38:36 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:38:36 -0800
Subject: list.reverse()
References: <ar49h9$si9$1@ins22.netins.net>
Message-ID: <3DD5AFAC.921CCA19@alcyone.com>

Mike Dean wrote:

> I think I recall seeing a reasonable explanation for this earlier
> (probably referring actually to list.sort()), but I'm wondering - what
> was the rationale for making list.reverse() reverse a list in-place
> rather than return a new, reversed list?  I'm sure there's a good
> reason, but what might that be?

Optimization.  If you want a copy of a reversed list, make a copy of
your list and then reverse that:

	l2 = l[:]
	l2.reverse()

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Give me chastity, but not yet.
\__/ St. Augustine
    WebVal / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/webval/
 URL scanner, maintainer, and validator in Python.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Nov  4 10:23:48 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 10:23:48 -0500
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <mailman.1036403645.19096.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aq63e4$ffo$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1036403645.19096.python-list at python.org>,
Simon Brunning  <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> wrote:
>> From:	aahz at pythoncraft.com [SMTP:aahz at pythoncraft.com]
>>>
>>>3) Ask her for a date
>> 
>> <chuckle>  She lives in Toronto (I'm in California) and I'm not her type.
> 
>Yeah, but asking her out would put her on the back foot, and you can win the
>Java vs. Python argument for once and for all.

Um....  How do you think I know I'm not her type?  What does "back foot"
mean, anyway?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Project Vote Smart: http://www.vote-smart.org/


From asim.hussain at acrobot.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 11:23:13 2002
From: asim.hussain at acrobot.co.uk (Asim Hussain)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:23:13 -0000
Subject: Python + SWIG as C++ Testing tool
Message-ID: <arlllj$j28$1@jura.cc.ic.ac.uk>

Hi,

Has anyone used SWIG + Python to create test scripts for C++ black box
testing.

Cheers

Asim Hussain.




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov 12 09:32:35 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:32:35 -0600
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D5F18E@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Michael Hudson [mailto:mwh at python.net]
> 
> Marco Baringer <mb at bese.it> writes:
> 
> > but the problem is that the coressponding python code doesn't do the
> > same thing:
> > 
> > in openmcl 0.13b:
> > 
> > ? (* 1e10 (parse-float "0.4e-10"))
> > 0.4
> > 
> > in python 2.2 (whatever apple ships with jaguar):
> > 
> > >>> float("0.4e-10") * 1e10
> > 0.39999999999999997
> 
> This is a matter of printed representations.  OpenMCL is lying
> (slightly) to you.
> 
> Cheers,
> M.

You can tell python to lie to you also:

>>> float("0.4e-10") * 1e10
0.39999999999999997
>>> print float("0.4e-10") * 1e10
0.4


The first time, you asked for the number's repr(),
the second for it's str().  Slight difference.

-gustavo



From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  5 19:07:30 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:07:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What's wrong with my for loop?
In-Reply-To: <007001c28524$db8f1760$ba01010a@local>
Message-ID: <20021106000730.64582.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey, I got such errors in runing my small program. The
attachment is my program named ld.stat.py and the
following is the error:

% ld.stat.py
  File "ld.stat.py", line 23
    for name in names
                    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

So could someone look at my codes and figure out the
bug for me? Thanks! And I still have another basic
questions about Python.
As there are no {} working as the limitators of
functions or blocks(as in C or Perl), what we can
control this is only by indentation, right?



=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/



=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
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From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Fri Nov 15 05:17:49 2002
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:17:49 GMT
Subject: What is the best way to join tuples?
References: <3dd32603$1_2@news.tm.net.my> <3dd46d0b_1@news.tm.net.my>
Message-ID: <hR3B9.11182$i03.8210@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>

"dique" <chezdique at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3dd46d0b_1 at news.tm.net.my...
> Thanx Raymond and Terry! Both of you have great solutions.Work like a
charm!
> I wonder which is more efficient :p

The dictionary approach is fastest at O(n).
The list.sort() approach is no slouch at O(n log n).
The nested loop method is the slowest at O(n**2).

The list.sort() and nested loop methods take the
least space.  Dictionaries consume the most space.


Raymond Hettinger





From pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de  Sun Nov 24 02:05:39 2002
From: pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 08:05:39 +0100
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de>

On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 02:35:23 +0100, Simon Burton wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I just read Guido's "python regret's" slide's from OSCON,
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=OSCON+%22python+regrets%22
> and one thing i can't work out is,
> he is saying we can do map() and filter() with list comprehensions (it's
> faster too) eg.

Thank you for this link.

I never liked filter, map and reduce. 

I think it would be good to remove them from the python tutorial. 
I think the tutorial would be easier for newbies it
it would be smaller.

 thomas


-- 
Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
http://www.thomas-guettler.de


From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 20 15:26:48 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 20:26:48 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <areli6$ris$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnatlo5h.r3b.grante@localhost.localdomain> <arg8nn$kr2$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddba9d6$0$4464$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <argma4$tqv$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3ddbf008$0$22229$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <argma4$tqv$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
> On 20 Nov 2002 15:27:18 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:
> [...]
>>
>>I've seen plenty of apps that assume it doesn't wait all the
>>time.  If I had a C compiler and knew how to write a simple
>>console app for Win32, it would be easy enough to figure out
>>how it really does work.  The Win32 guys I work with directly
>>all write device drivers and none of them know how the
>>user-land API works.
>>
> I found this, which seems to indicate someone else worried about it,
> and did a patch, but apparently wasn't 100% sure it was needed ;-/
> 
> http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-patches/2001-q4/msg00297.html

Yup.  That patch to cygwin addresses the problem as my original
post described it.  If I was wrong, at least I'm not the only
one. :)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  With this weapon
                                  at               I can expose fictional
                               visi.com            characters and bring about
                                                   sweeping reforms!!


From trilok.agarwal at oracle.com  Fri Nov  1 18:58:41 2002
From: trilok.agarwal at oracle.com (tagarwal)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:58:41 -0800
Subject: how to stop a running python command in pywin ide
Message-ID: <7xEw9.9$%f4.153@news.oracle.com>





From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov 13 06:07:09 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:07:09 GMT
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <mailman.1037137605.20012.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3bs4t20l0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:

> I don't like the augmented operations because, depending on the object,
> the operation may or may not be done in-place. 

I can't actually think of the last time I used augmented assignment on
something that wasn't an integer (or maybe a number).

> I think that it is better to be explicit and use assignment or method
> call. That way you know what you are getting.

Certainly I'd write 

    alist.extend(another)

over

    alist += another

Seems to be an unnecessary -- maybe even unwise -- bit of polymorphism.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Or here's an even simpler indicator of how much C++ sucks: Print
  out the C++ Public Review Document.  Have someone  hold it about
  three feet  above your head and then drop it.  Thus  you will be
  enlightened.                                        -- Thant Tessman


From pieroul at attglobal.net  Sat Nov 30 18:40:37 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:40:37 -0500
Subject: Python exceptions: is there a way to find the exceptionattributes?
References: <3DE8F629.4080108@attglobal.net> <mailman.1038697122.20039.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE94C75.7060406@attglobal.net>

>     Pierre> It would be nice to be able to do that from the
>     Pierre> interpreter.  The only thing i have found using dir() is
>     Pierre> shown below and it does not give me the attributes.
> 
> This is not something I have ever needed to do, but I'm curious: What
> is wrong/inferior/unsatisfying about the dir approach?
> 
> Thanks,
> John Hunter 
> 
It's not that big an issue, but you have to have an instance of the 
exception to be able to dir() its attributes.  Therefore you have to 
know how to create the exception.  You could raise it, but that won't 
tell you the arguments you could pass unless you read the source code. 
That is not a big deal either if the exception you are looking for is a 
class, just look at __init__.  But if it is a builtin exception, you 
have to find a way to raise the exception by some code (not simply by 
raise since you are looking for those arguments), catch the exception 
and run dir on the exception instance.

I was looking for a quick way to look at exception attributes from 
within my programming environment when i have to decide what exception i 
should catch or which one i should raise and then what information i 
should pass inside the exception object.


-- 
         Pierre Rouleau, ing.
         Hull, Qu?bec




From cjw at sympatico.ca  Sun Nov 24 12:10:55 2002
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:10:55 -0500
Subject: print to file
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
	 <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
	 <TUrD9.58023$Yw.2622115@news2.tin.it> <mailman.1037998531.3961.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE1081F.ABBF3863@sympatico.ca>

David Mertz wrote:
[snip]

>
> I think--as Alex does--that the "print >> FILE" form was a mistake.  But
> it is just ugly syntax, and I've even found myself using it
> occassionally.
>

[snip]
I had not come across this before and so I gave it a try:
>>> print 'abc' >> file('ugh.py', 'w')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for >>: 'str' and 'file'
>>> f=file('ugh.py', 'w')
>>> print 'abc' >> f
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for >>: 'str' and 'file'
>>>
Am I misinterpreting Section 6.6 of the language doc?

I get a similar result with Python or PythonWin.

Colin W.
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From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Fri Nov 15 09:26:45 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:26:45 +0100
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>; from marvelan@hotmail.com on Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 07:38:43AM -0800
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021115152645.C30315@prim.han.de>

M wrote:
> I use Python in several projects. One of the main benefits of doing
> so is that my programmers can quickly learn Python and get productive.
> Python is a great language to read. Very seldom does one of my programmers
> missunderstand code somebody else have written. This is one, if not the most,
> important aspect of a great language. Most of the time are spent in reading
> code while adding a new module (to see where it should fit) or fixing
> bugs. And by definition, for a non-trivial application, this is code that
> somebody else wrote.
> 
> The ability to produce readable code is one of the best things with Python.
> 
> Python more or less forces you to write nice code. This is a good thing. Not
> an issue when you are a single programmer on a project. But when you have a 
> bunch of programmers with different skills this is great.
> 
> But I see a disturbing trend.
> 
> Just a few examples...

OK, lots of people gave their oppinion on this, already.  
Your posting has a *huge* potential :-)

But in fact i'd like to see some examples of what is readable and 
what is not readable in your oppinion.

> The new enumerate or zip function. 

I am especially interested in seeing some code that enforces your
point about these two.  

thanks,

    holger



From catonano at inwind.it  Thu Nov 21 15:17:12 2002
From: catonano at inwind.it (catonano at inwind.it)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 12:17:12 -0800
Subject: Zope on MacOs X trobleshooting
Message-ID: <e1119919.0211211217.1875e02a@posting.google.com>

Hello all,

sorry if this is not the right group to ask about Zope. I'll
appreciate any hint about this.

I'm long time Mac OS user and java developer (junior) on WinNT 4.x and
VisualAge

Ok. I downloaded the Zope binary for MacOs X, runned the install
script ang got the following error message:

Last login: Wed Nov 20 01:00:40 on ttyp1
Welcome to Darwin!
[Catonano:~] adri% /Applications/Zope-2.5.1-MOSX/start
------
2002-11-20T00:03:58 INFO(0) ZODB Opening database for mounting:
'12741264_1037741322.042695'
------
2002-11-20T00:03:58 INFO(0) ZODB Mounted database
'12741264_1037741322.042695' at /temp_folder
------
2002-11-20T00:03:59 PANIC(300) z2 Startup exception
Traceback (innermost last):
  File /Applications/Zope-2.5.1-MOSX/z2.py, line 558, in ?
  File /Applications/Zope-2.5.1-MOSX/ZServer/HTTPServer.py, line 320,
in __init__
  File /Applications/Zope-2.5.1-MOSX/ZServer/medusa/http_server.py,
line 578, in __init__
error: host not found


[Catonano:~] adri% hostname
Catonano.local.
[Catonano:~] adri% 

Host not found? What doeas it mean?

Cananyone help me to interpretate this error message?

I had this message on MacOs X 10.2 then I upgraded to 10.2.2 and it
worked !!

It was late in the night so I didn't try to log in the admin site, I
just watched the initial screen, then I shut down and went to sleep.

Later, I launched an updater (in 10.2-autoconf-patch.pkg format) I
downloaded from the Apple site and BAM !  It didn't work any longer ! 
The message popped up again !

AAaargh!!!

Please, help me!
 Thanks, anyhow
Bye
Catonano


From camhorn at mac.com  Wed Nov 13 17:02:18 2002
From: camhorn at mac.com (Cameron Horn)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:02:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator syntax (PEP 255)
Message-ID: <5280233.1037224938953.JavaMail.camhorn@mac.com>

> What is the semantic of "an empty generator", i.e. what does it mean? A
> generator that never generates any values?

Yes, absolutely.  I find these empty things to be very useful, both as placeholders for things that I'll implement later and places where I mean to have nothing happen.

> Would this fulfill your requirement? (And not upset you so much :-)
>
> def nullgen():
>    raise StopIteration
>    yield "never called"

> >>> for x in nullgen():
> ...     print x
> ...
> >>>
> >>>

I appreciate your attempt to soothe my delicate sensibilities ;), but no.  The fact that a line that I know isn't being executed changes my function, not just in a behavioral way but a structural one, gives me the willies.

> It doesn't bother me.

Syntactic cruft bothers me; that's why I like Python so much.

If generators acted like other functions (i.e., could be used interchangably) I'd have no problem.  But they can't, so I'm bothered.



From dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 07:03:12 2002
From: dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 12:03:12 GMT
Subject: rss.py for win32.
References: <Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP@195.112.4.37> <vdWdndYr6YGgGUKgXTWcpg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92D07AA88565FDaveP@195.112.4.37>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in 
news:vdWdndYr6YGgGUKgXTWcpg at comcast.com:

> 
> "Dave Pawson" <dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP at 195.112.4.37...
>> http://orchard.sourceforge.net/doc/RSS-parser.py
>>
>> Appears to be *nix only.
> 
> Why do you think that?  The string 'nix' is absent from both the main
> and overview pages.  A quick look at the code referenced above and the
> ones it imported revealed no unixisms that I could see.
> 
>> Has anyone seen a win32  version please?
> 
> Have you tried it on a Win system?  

Yes, hence the post.

regards DaveP.


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 10:53:03 2002
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:53:03 -0000
Subject: RPy 0.3 (including Win version also)
References: <mailman.1037929831.31389.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arlk0b$ceu$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

Much appreciated.

Duncan




From senux at senux.com  Wed Nov 13 03:15:28 2002
From: senux at senux.com (Brian Lee)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:15:28 +0900
Subject: call by reference (c module)
Message-ID: <20021113081528.GA6921@mercury.senux.com>

Hi, I am newbie!

(1) call by reference

I am trying to make a simple C module. Follow is a brief example
for my situation. How can I use `call by reference' to put argument 
value to C module?

a = 1
import some_c_module      
some_c_module.function(a) # function change variable a to 2
print a                   # I want a to be 2 (not 1)

(2) un-fixed size of arguments to a C module.

Is there any (easy) way to put un-fixed size of arguments to a
C module? I tested PyArg_ParseTuple() but I don't know how to
manage un-fixed size of values with it. 

-- 
Brian Lee - http://www.senux.com/en/



From torppa at staff.megabaud.fi  Fri Nov 22 04:13:30 2002
From: torppa at staff.megabaud.fi (Jarkko Torppa)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:13:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org> <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <arksfq$bdp$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>

In article <3ddd8419_3 at omega.dimensional.com>, Mike Brown wrote:
> As was pointed out, all the delay is in the reading, and it really only
> happens when dealing with these file-wrapped sockets as returned by
> urlopen(). They can be on the localhost, even.

Seems that stdio is somehow confused, try this

import urllib, time, os

starttime = time.time()
u = urllib.urlopen('http://localhost/4m')
fn = u.fp.fileno()
bytea = [ ]
while 1:
    bytes = os.read(fn, 16 * 1024)
    if bytes == '':
        break
    bytea.append(bytes)
bytes = ''.join(bytea)
u.close()
endtime = time.time()
elapsed = endtime - starttime
length = len(bytes)
print "bytes: %.1fK; time: %0.3fs (%0d KB/s)" % (length / 1024.0, elapsed, length / 1024.0 / elapsed )

On my NetBSD box this gives

bytes: 4096.0K; time: 0.450s (9105 KB/s)
0.15s user 0.08s system 44% cpu 0.513 total
vs
bytes: 4096.0K; time: 14.616s (280 KB/s)
2.52s user 11.57s system 96% cpu 14.676 total

-- 
Jarkko Torppa, Elisa Internet


From pu at myRealBox.com  Sun Nov 10 13:05:57 2002
From: pu at myRealBox.com (pu)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:05:57 +0100
Subject: Tkinnter questions
References: <3dc45b3d_2@news.vo.lu> <Xns92BB14686A4Aroblochefrst@213.228.0.136>
Message-ID: <3dcea036_2@news.vo.lu>

this one seems to work better:

    tkRoot.update_idletasks()
    tkDw = (tkRoot.winfo_screenwidth() - tkRoot.winfo_width() )/2
    tkDh = (tkRoot.winfo_screenheight()- tkRoot.winfo_height())/2
    tkRoot.geometry("+%d+%d" % (tkDw,tkDh))

Cheers,
-Patrick




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Nov 11 14:59:59 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:59:59 -0600
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <3DD00595.B2905D8E@earthlink.net>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DCFF6FB.40426F8E@san.rr.com> <3DD00595.B2905D8E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20021111195948.GB12121@unpythonic.net>

> > Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> > > In all cases that I can think of, your dynamic code is essentially a
> > > string which gets eval()ed (with a language-dependent eval).  The
> > > solution is to make the eval() function/operator compile into a
> > > sequence of operations along the lines of: Load the compiler for
> > > this language, (if it's not already loaded), pass that string to the
> > > compiler, run the generated bytecode.

> Darren New wrote:
> > Seems like an awful lot of overhead for every keystroke, window event,
> > and async file operation.
> 
On Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 02:31:33PM -0500, Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> Why would any of these require that strings be eval()ed?

In Tk, every event binding is a string which is substituted and then
treated as code, eg
    bind .b <Button> { puts "Clicked %W" }
This substitution is of a different kind than the normal $-substitution
of commands as they are executed (indeed, $-substitution will take place
next, so that
    bind .b <Button> { puts "$%W" }
will write to stdout the contents of the variable with the same name as
the clicked widget.

Tcl/Tk optimization guides seem to have long recommended putting no code
of consequence in a widget binding, for this very reason.

Jeff



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 22 05:40:19 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:40:19 GMT
Subject: Python embedding question: how to expose a new "builtin"?
References: <ad9ea6f1.0211190807.73bfe1a1@posting.google.com> <awtC9.38553$Yw.1818910@news2.tin.it> <ad9ea6f1.0211211611.49f526e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <nQnD9.56004$Yw.2561144@news2.tin.it>

Rodrigo B. de Oliveira wrote:
   ...
> print dir(application)
> print type(application)
> print dir(type(application))
> print dir(application)
> 
> </snip>
> 
> has the following output:
> 
> <output>
> []
> <type 'isapy.Application'>
> ['__class__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__',
> '__hash__', '__init__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__repr__',
> '__setattr__', '__str__', 'addHandler', 'minThreadPoolSize', 'onEnd',
> 'path']
> ['__class__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__',
> '__hash__', '__init__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__repr__',
> '__setattr__', '__str__', 'addHandler', 'minThreadPoolSize', 'onEnd',
> 'path']
> </output>
> 
> After the code "dir(type(application))" executes everything works as
> expected (application is correctly installed and I can call its
> methods and access its properties).
> 
> What could be possibly causing this behavior?

Never saw it happen before.  Maybe you're not calling PyType_Ready, or
something of that ilk...?


Alex



From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Nov 15 18:50:57 2002
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:50:57 -0000
Subject: Permutations algoritm?
References: <mailman.1037391865.1270.python-list@python.org> <ar3rgb$cn8$1@nntp2-cm.news.eni.net>
Message-ID: <ar41c4$oc0$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Stuart D. Gathman" <stuart at bmsi.com> wrote in message
news:ar3rgb$cn8$1 at nntp2-cm.news.eni.net...
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:18:25 -0500, sismex01 wrote:
>
> > Does anybody have a clear, simple, permutations algorithm in Python?
>
> If you Google (google.com) comp.lang.python for "Python Permutation",
> you will get lots of discussion.
>
> However, I'll copy in the algorithm I liked best for permuting an
> an arbitrary list: (STL algorithm works great on range(n))
>
> Alex Martelli wrote:
>
> *blink* -- yes... nonobvious but it works -- slicing the time to
> permute range(10) [need to start using more substantial examples
> here:-)] from 19.63 to 12.22 on my box.  However, the same trick
> also works for the modifying-in-place "myperm", slicing ITS time
> for permuting range(10) from 14.10 down to 10.13 (I'm only using
> Python 2.3 now for all of these measurements).
>
> And, applying Anton's trick to Duncan's best micro-optimization
> of his in-place-modification approach:
>
> def mypermy(l):
>     pop, insert, append = l.pop, l.insert, l.append
>
>     def halfperm():
>         ll = l
>         llen = len(ll)
>         if llen <= 2:
>             yield ll
>             return
>         aRange = range(llen)
>         v = pop()
>         for p in halfperm():
>             for j in aRange:
>                 insert(j, v)
>                 yield ll
>                 del ll[j]
>         append(v)
>
>     for h in halfperm():
>         yield h
>         h.reverse()
>         yield h
>         h.reverse()
>
> ITS time to permute range(10) is reduced from 12.13 to 9.59
> Yes we do need two .reverse calls -- halfperm's dependent
> on the list not being modified under it -- the alternative
> way to write the final loop:
>
>     for h in halfperm():
>         p = h[:]
>         yield p
>         p.reverse()
>         yield p
>
> takes 11.03 to permute range(10), once again showing (here,
> to me at least, less surprisingly) that modifying in-place
> and undoing the modification is faster than making a new
> list (a copy) and modifying the copy.
>
>
> Alex
>
>
> --
> Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
> Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
> "Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - Mozart background
> song for the Microsoft "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.

I'm not sure what I might have posted on this before, but I spent some time
on this a while back.  I'm pretty sure I was using a lex ordering.  I was
only concerned with the combinations of integers in the range 1 to n, but
probably easy enough to adapt.

---------------------------------------------------------------
def combinations(n, k):
    current = range(1, k + 1)
    max = range(n - k + 1, n + 1)
    while current != max:
        for number in current:
            print '%2d'% (number),
        print
        index = -1
        if current[index] != max[index]:
            current[index] = current[index] + 1
        else:
            for indices in range(-2, -k - 1, -1):
                if current[indices] != max[indices]:
                    current[indices] = current[indices] + 1
                    for other_indices in range(indices + 1, 0):
                        current[other_indices] = current[indices] +
other_indices - indices
                    break
    for number in max:
        print '%2d'% (number),
--------------------------------------------------------------------

eg.

>>> combinations(6,3)
 1  2  3
 1  2  4
 1  2  5
 1  2  6
 1  3  4
 1  3  5
 1  3  6
 1  4  5
 1  4  6
 1  5  6
 2  3  4
 2  3  5
 2  3  6
 2  4  5
 2  4  6
 2  5  6
 3  4  5
 3  4  6
 3  5  6
 4  5  6
>>>

Or doing some bit-shifting to speed it up a bit.  Different output, but the
idea is reasonably obvious (although it now appears to be reverse lex
ordering or some-such; it's a while since I wrote this).

----------------------------------------------------------
def combinations2(n, k):
    comb = gmpy.mpz(1)
    for i in range(k):
        comb = comb.setbit(i)  #first combination
    count = 1
    while count != k:
        print comb.digits(2)
        s_len = len(comb.digits(2)) - 1
        for i in range(s_len, n-1):
            comb = comb.setbit(i, 0)
            comb = comb.setbit(i+1)
            print comb.digits(2)
        count = 0
        for i in range(n-1, 0, -1):
            if comb.getbit(i) == 1:
                comb = comb.setbit(i, 0)
                count += 1
            else:
                s_len = len(comb.digits(2)) - 1
                comb = comb.setbit(s_len, 0)
                for j in range(count + 1):
                    comb = comb.setbit(s_len + j + 1)
                break

---------------------------------------------------------

>>> bit_stuff.combinations2(6,3)
111
1011
10011
100011
1101
10101
100101
11001
101001
110001
1110
10110
100110
11010
101010
110010
11100
101100
110100
111000
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------

Comments on my crappy code are welcome.

Duncan






From hst at empolis.co.uk  Fri Nov  1 11:12:59 2002
From: hst at empolis.co.uk (Harvey Thomas)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:12:59 -0000
Subject: Regex recursion error example.
Message-ID: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB04F431@hendrix.empolisuk.com>

Yin wrote:
> 
> After tinkering with this issue for a day or so, I've decided to use
> xmllib to solve the problem.  But for future reference, I've attached
> the piece of text that is failing and the two approaches that I've
> tried to make the match.
> 
> Of course there are other approaches to doing this parse, but I am
> interested in understanding the regex approach I am trying and its
> limitations.
> 
> If there are no solutions using regex, I would be interested in seeing
> a reference to articles or books that discuss overcoming particularly
> long string matches.
> 
> Approach 1:
> pattern=re.compile('&lt;PubMedArticle&gt;(.*?)&lt;/PubMedArticle&gt;',
> re.DOTALL)
> self.citationlist = re.findall(pattern, allinput)
> 
> Approach 2:
> comppat=re.compile(r'&lt;PubMedArticle&gt;((?:(?!&lt;PubMedArt
> icle&gt;).)*)&lt;/PubMedArticle&gt;',
> re.DOTALL)
> self.citationlist = re.findall(pattern, allinput)
> 
> There are three matching to make in this body of text.  The above code
> has been failing on the second of the third.  This problem has only
> been occuring on linux python and Windows python (the stack in Windows
> is just larger enough to accomadate the matches.
> Text to match:
> 
> http://160.129.203.97/1998_xmltest.html
> 
> Please let me know by e-mail if the link is down.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Yin
> -- 

How about this (untested); don't think you will get a recursion problem:

pattern=re.compile("""
   &lt;PubMedArticle&gt;
   (?:[^&]+
   |
   &(?!lt;/PubMedArticle&gt;)
   )*
   &lt;/PubMedArticle&gt;"""
   , re.DOTALL, re.VERBOSE)
self.citationlist = pattern.findall(allinput)

Harvey

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.



From claird at lairds.com  Mon Nov 11 11:24:14 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:24:14 -0000
Subject: How to create and interactive, distributable program?
References: <3dcfa0e3.921157@news.jaring.my> <YzOz9.16974$Bs5.597636@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <usvmdehmskdjb2@corp.supernews.com>

In article <YzOz9.16974$Bs5.597636 at news1.tin.it>,
Alex Martelli  <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>Kenneth Gomez wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> In my course, I am asked to develop a basic finite element analysis
>  [ snipped: some fundamental FEA specs ]
>> To do all of this, my questions are , can Python handle the
>> mathematics, e.g. does Python have a subroutine to inverse a matrix,
>> or find the modulus of a number,....? Or, is it like C, where I have
>> to write the subroutine myself?
>
>Python is a good language for numerically-intensive programming
>*IF* accompanied by the indispensable Numeric extension package
>(and possibly further add-ons to Numeric).  So, basically just
			.
			.
			.
>If I were in your shoes, with an extremely aggressive schedule
>and a LOT of things to be done within that schedule, I'd choose
>the best tools (Python, Numeric, SciPy, Qt, BlackAdder), give
>up on ALL the non-absolutely-essential parts (the tidbit about
>bundling everything up into an executable file just for a
>presentation seems non-essential to me, for example), and try
>to stick to Extreme Programming principles as much as feasible
>(e.g., the 40-hours-per-week principle does NOT seem feasible
>under the given constraints and goals -- nor is pair programming
>going to be, if you'll be working alone).  Working in short
>iterations and boiling deliverables down to specs (expressed
>as automated, executable, repeatable tests) and executable code
>gives you your best chance to have something usable (though not
>probably yet complete) within your deadline.
>
>
>Alex
>

Alex is accurate and comprehensive, as always.

Perhaps there's value in emphasizing a few of his points.
If you had specific license constraints, I might recommend
falling back on Tkinter in place of PyQt.  I doubt that
Tkinter will satisfy you in other ways, though--mostly
the performance of naive use of its Canvas ...

Introduce yourself to Python by starting with one of
* the computational engine and
* the GUI
in your first weeks.

Alex is entirely serious in expecting you to plan deliver-
ables seriously, to the point of coding executable
validations.  Perhaps even before you think about the
two bulleted items above, you should learn of Python's
testing facilities (PyTest and more--I should start a Wiki
page on this ...; in the meantime, see <URL: http://
phaseit.net/claird/comp.lang.python/doctest.html >).

There's a chance you won't "need" Numeric for performance.
I'm still mulling over how to articulate advice on this.

Please be aware that others working in FEM have already 
made serious use of Python.  I rather doubt at this point
that you're best off trying to re-use their work directly.
However, I suspect there's value to you in knowing of this
"existence proof" of Python's feasiblity in the role you're
considering.

I predict you'll find yourself FAR happier at the end of
this projects with Python than C or Fortran.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov  2 04:55:31 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 09:55:31 GMT
Subject: Textbooks on Perl/Python
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036226184.12174.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <niNw9.75632$TD1.3404688@news2.tin.it>

Alessandro Bottoni wrote:

> Alle 23:53, venerd? 1 novembre 2002, Jalab ha scritto:
>> Greetings all,
>> Any help in finding a university level textbook on the subject of
>> "Scripting languages" I am mainly looking for a book that covers Perl
>> and Python only as the 2 main scripting languages and that is written
>> for students, i.e. chapter summary, exercises, etc. I hate to force my
>> student to buy and study from two separate books.
>>
> 
> I do not know about Perl (I just keep myself away from it, if possible).
> Regarding Python there are at least two very good
> beginner's level books:
> 
> Learning Python
> Mark Lutz + David Ascher
> O'Reilly
> 
> Learn to program using Python
> Alan Gauld
> Addison Wesley
> 
> Neither one of them includes exercises or any other feature specifically
> intended for university students, unfortunately.

One that does include exercises and IS slanted towards university
students, particularly ones just learning to program with Python
as a first language, is Deitel and Deitel's "Python How to Program".

I'm ambivalent about it -- I was a tech reviewer so cannot be
unbiased, I guess.  On the minus side (from my POV), it's HUGE
(I like smaller books better than larger ones) and some of the
advice and framing it gives is more appropriate to other
languages (more "static" than Python) than to Python itself.  On
the plus side, it's quite thorough and, well, didactic.  I'm
helping a friend, bright but not a programmer, learn programming
with Python, and she tells me that, while she liked Gauld's book,
when it was done she felt still far from secure with Python and
with programming -- good on the overall view, scarce, from her
point of view, on the nitty-gritty.  She's now proceeding with
"How to think like a computer scientist" (Python edition) from
the net, and so far is pretty happy about how it complements
Gauld's text, with more details &c.  But if one wants just one
book, this seems to count as a defect of Gauld's text; Deitel
and Deitel, I think, would not suffer from it -- if and when a
student manages to work all through it, I think the student WILL
feel pretty confident in their mastery of the subject.

Another book worth mentioning in this context is Magnus Lie
Hetland's "Practical Python".  Again I can't be unbiased about
it (because I was a technical reviewer for it, too, AND because
I think of Magnus as a friend though we've never met face to
face).  It does lack chapter exercises, and it IS a pretty big
book, but I like the informal, communication-rich style, and I
think it's didactically very valid.  Half the book (the half I
didn't tech-review) is made up of completely worked-out
*significant* examples: if one appreciates this didactical
device, it's hard to find it better used than in Magnus' book
(personally, I'm of two minds about it; overall I think I prefer
many small toy examples rather than fewer larger significant
ones, but I surely know many people whose preferences are for
examples that are actually useful working programs).

But this still doesn't answer the OP's request for a book that
teaches BOTH Perl and Python, particularly one with all the
typical devices used in university textbooks, such as per-chapter
exercises.  I don't think such a book exists, and for a good
reason: tiny demand.  Not for the 'exercises' part, which would
be a good thing to consider for anybody writing textbooks, of
course.  No, the problem is with having a single book teach two
disparate languages.  I have a few such books and invariably they
gather dust somewhere in the back rows of my shelves... by
trying to do two things at once, they generally can't do either
as well as a book that focuses on just one of them.


> BTW, this would be an opportunity to write such a book, maybe as a
> collective effort coordinated by the educational SIG (special interest
> group) of python, maybe starting from the very good book of Alan Gauld.
> This approach could cope with the small market available for the book.

And where would you find the volunteers, experienced AND happy
with both Perl and Python, to do the writing?  Quite a few
Pythonistas do have Perl experience, but few have any _liking_
for it (there are surely exceptions, such as our homonym who's
now working for our previous employer, but I have my doubts that
there are enough of them...).

> (Here, I suppose you need a book devoted to programming with Perl or
> Python, not a book on creating language interpreters).

A book with a definitely-tiny market BUT perhaps enough enthusiasm
level among prospective authors to make it a reality would indeed
be one explaining how to write interpreters in C and Java, using
Classic Python and Jython as the worked-out examples;-).


Alex



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Nov 24 22:51:59 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:51:59 -0800
Subject: How to emulate matrix element access like 'a[i,j]'?
References: <3DE19718.E31F0985@irl.cri.nz>
Message-ID: <eppstein-6E10B5.19515924112002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3DE19718.E31F0985 at irl.cri.nz>,
 Blair Hall <b.hall at irl.cri.nz> wrote:

> I have a class with a private matrix member (a Numeric.array)
> and I'd like to allow clients to access matrix members through
> suitable functions.
> 
> How can I create classes of object that supports the
> access style:
>     aMatrix[ row_index, col_index ]
> 
> It seems that __setitem__ and __getitem__ are not the right way to go.

Sure they are.  Just have them expect their argument to be a tuple of 
two integers.

E.g. you can do this with dictionaries:

>>> d={}
>>> d[2,5]=7
>>> d[2,5]
7
>>> d
{(2, 5): 7}

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From usenet at imperialviolet.org  Mon Nov 25 18:56:14 2002
From: usenet at imperialviolet.org (Adam Langley)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:56:14 +0000
Subject: Severe embedding problems - please HELP!!!
References: <c09aca51.0211251327.5f97df69@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.25.23.56.13.385281@imperialviolet.org>

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:27:08 +0000, vm_usenet wrote:

<big snip>
> Please, could someone explain what's going on??? I've seen the
> interpreter do the exact same things in its own code!!! why isn't it
> working?!? I'm simply going nuts, and I already spent three nights
> over this.

Have a look at the xchat source code[1]. I believe that works under Windows
and it certainly works under Linux.

The only thing that I didn't see you mention was Py_NewInterpreter

(and "__name__" is a special symbol containing the name of the current
module, or "__main__" if it isn't being imported)

[1] http://www.xchat.org/files/source/1.8/xchat-1.8.9.tar.bz2



From dontspam_matthewm at ihug.co.nz  Tue Nov  5 18:17:26 2002
From: dontspam_matthewm at ihug.co.nz (Matthew)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 12:17:26 +1300
Subject: calldll question
References: <3DC847D5.60908@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <3DC85186.80209@ihug.co.nz>

Cancel previous message. I found Sam Rushings DynWin module which has 
heaps of examples. One question though, webpage states that calldll only 
works on Py2.1. Is this true as I am running Py2.2.1 and so far calldll 
appears to work without a hitch.
Thanks, matthew.

<snip>



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 19 18:42:44 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:42:44 -0600
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <3DDABEF2.BE342B47@alcyone.com>
References: <E18E3Rt-0001rG-00@tswings.swing.cluster>
        <mailman.1037698233.27806.python-list@python.org>
        <3DDABEF2.BE342B47@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <15834.52340.168573.470992@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> The one feature I'm unhappy with in python mode is text wrapping...

    Erik> Indeed, this is the only fault I have with python-mode as well.

I passed the earlier solution along to Barry Warsaw, Elisper Extraordinaire.
He apparently hadn't seen it before.  Look for it in a future
python-mode.el, coming to a disk near you...

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Nov 11 03:30:44 2002
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:30:44 +0000
Subject: Tkinter listbox selection handling
In-Reply-To: <co6kqa.tqk2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
References: <co6kqa.tqk2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <1037003445.1109.1.camel@m-franklin>

On Sat, 2002-11-09 at 23:48, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> Hmmm ...  I have Tkinter listbox created like this:
> 
> class myUI:
> 
>      def __init__(self, root):
> 
>          # Setup the visual elements
>          self.hSB = Scrollbar(root, orient=HORIZONTAL)
>          self.vSB = Scrollbar(root, orient=VERTICAL)
>          self.listbox = Listbox(root,
>                                 foreground = FCOLOR,
>                                 background  = BCOLOR,
>                                 font = (FNAME, FSZ, FWT),
>                                 selectmode=SINGLE,
>                                 exportselection=0,
>                                 xscrollcommand=self.hSB.set,
>                                 yscrollcommand=self.vSB.set,
>                                 height = HEIGHT,
>                                 width = WIDTH,
>                                 )
> 
>          self.hSB.config(command=self.y.xview)
>          self.hSB.pack(side=BOTTOM, fill=X)
>          self.vSB.config(command=self.DirList.yview)
>          self.vSB.pack(side=RIGHT, fill=Y)
>          self.DirList.pack(side=LEFT, fill=BOTH, expand=1)
> 
> 
> I instantiate it like this:
> 
> root = Tk()
> UI = myUI(root)
> 
> Then I add a handler:
> 
> UI.listbox.bind('<button-1>', handlerfunc)


Try this...

UI.listbox.bind("<ButtonRelease-1>", handlerfunc)




> 
> All this works fine up to a point.  However, inside handlerfunc(), if I do
> a UI.listbox.selection_get(,) I get the *previously* selected item back,
> not the currently selected item.  This is also the case if I try using
> UI.listbox.curselection().
> 
> I've worked around this by trashing the idea of an event handler and
> polling the widget regularly looking for changes, but that is a really
> ugly solution... This was suggested in some of my reading because there
> is no 'command' attribute for a Listbox.
> 
> So, am I missing something here? *Is* there a way to use events to
> pickup the currently selected Listbox item, or am I stuck doing it with
> polling?
> 
> TIA,
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tim Daneliuk
> tundra at tundraware.com
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM  Wed Nov 13 03:13:07 2002
From: Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM (Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 00:13:07 -0800
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ?
References: <44ee1dc2.0211120501.2c9e3215@posting.google.com> <egorqa.sq3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <44ee1dc2.0211130013.b9e5a30@posting.google.com>

Dear Dennis,

>         Oh, main thing I notice is that there are no /references/ in your 
> header, which means that it is considered the start of a thread...

 would You like to explain a bit more about that /references/ , 
- what it should be
- where it should be

so i can try to ?reply? without breaking the thread ? The ?Post a
follow-up to this message? in Google did NOT place it, so i assume i
MUST do it manually...

TIA,
Patrick Carabin.


From bh at intevation.de  Wed Nov  6 12:23:00 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 18:23:00 +0100
Subject: Subclassing the min() build-in function?
References: <18eef4ae.0211060911.2c0a7731@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6qznsmhatn.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

oracle_vs_ms at yahoo.dk (Peter Lorenzen) writes:

> Hi,
> 
> I am using Jython to calculate a string like this:  "2+3+min(1,2,3)"
> from my Java pro-gram. This works beautifully. But my problem is that
> if a user wants to calculate min(1) Python considers this an error. I
> want it to return 1. If I could figure out how to subclass the min
> function, so when it was called with one parameter I just returned
> this parame-ter, and otherwise returned the super min function.

I don't know how Jython implements min, but in CPython min can be called
with one parameter as long as that parameter is a sequence (I think an
iterator also works)

>>> min([1,2,3])
1

Your proposal woule mean that it returns the list which obviously is not
backwards compatible.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov 30 17:57:36 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:57:36 -0600
Subject: Python exceptions: is there a way to find the exception
 attributes?
In-Reply-To: <3DE8F629.4080108@attglobal.net> (Pierre Rouleau's message of
 "Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:32:25 -0500")
References: <3DE8F629.4080108@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <m2k7iur7hb.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Pierre" == Pierre Rouleau <pieroul at attglobal.net> writes:

    Pierre> It would be nice to be able to do that from the
    Pierre> interpreter.  The only thing i have found using dir() is
    Pierre> shown below and it does not give me the attributes.

This is not something I have ever needed to do, but I'm curious: What
is wrong/inferior/unsatisfying about the dir approach?

Thanks,
John Hunter 



From -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk  Wed Nov 27 08:12:15 2002
From: -$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk (Paul Wright)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 13:12:15 -0000
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <artvr3$cbe$2@wheel2.two14.net> <arvomp$1vh$1@verence.demon.co.uk> <as1mos$dkg$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <as2gbf$203$1@verence.demon.co.uk>

In article <as1mos$dkg$1 at wheel2.two14.net>,  <maney at pobox.com> wrote:
>Paul Wright <-$P-W$- at verence.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> This is a regular question on comp.lang.python.
>
>Yes, it does seem to cause new-to-Python programmers a fair bit of
>confusion, doesn't it?  Everything is going along so nicely, then you
>hit a block of code where you want to do this really very simple thing,
>and all of a sudden Python is being less helpful than C.  Of course tou
>find this worthy of comment: it's so unusual!

It's unusual for C (and other C like languages) people who come to
Python after C. I don't think that it's worth changing Python for this,
though.

>You might want to read Hatton's description of that again - the
>accurate one in chapter four, not the wooly one earlier on.  He makes
>it quite clear that the statistics merely count the occurences of
>patterns he considers error-prone, not actual errors per se.

Indeed: chapter 4 talks about non-conforming code, I see. He considers
these items of code faults, which may or may not lead to failure. I
shall stop quoting that as a failure statistic, then.

>Some of the occurences may be errors, but Hatton provides fuck-all in
>the way of hard data on that score.  That lack was, I think, the main
>reason _Safer C_ has been stuck on a back shelf all these years...
>though the fact that I've been moving away from using C so much over
>those years must be a factor as well.  :-)

My own personal feeling is that this is a moderately common error
(though think I tend to make it more often in Python than in C, for some
reason). It might be related to experience, but I also think some people
just have a blind spot for that error (maybe those of us who grew up
writing BBC BASIC :-).

>None of which should deter anyone who has to use C from reading _Safer
>C_, for there is a great deal of merit to it.

That book is quite dull compared to the course he gives, which is very
entertaining and worthwhile for anyone doing safety related stuff with
C.

-- 
Paul Wright | http://pobox.com/~pw201 |


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Thu Nov  7 21:54:28 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:54:28 +1300
Subject: ANN: Pyrex 0.4.6
Message-ID: <mailman.1036774590.32437.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Pyrex 0.4.6 is now available:

    http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/

There's just one bug fix in this release, to make
indexing of multi-dimensional C arrays work properly.


What is Pyrex?
--------------

Pyrex is a new language for writing Python extension modules.
It lets you freely mix operations on Python and C data, with
all Python reference counting and error checking handled
automatically.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From owen at nospam.invalid  Mon Nov 25 13:16:12 2002
From: owen at nospam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:16:12 -0800
Subject: Inheritance And Instantiation Of Instance Variables
References: <3de00ca8@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <artpfm$1u82$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <3de00ca8 at dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
 "Ben C" <b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u> wrote:

>Hi there,
>
>I just wanted to clarify something ...
>
>if I create a class such as
>
>class Blah:
>
>    def __init__(self, parameterA, parameterB)
>        self.parameterA = parameterA
>        self.parameterB = parameterB
>
> and then I inherit from that class is it really necessary to initialise the
>argumnets to the inherited class twice ? ie.
>
>class NewBlah(Blah):
>
>    def __init__(self, parameterA, parameterB)
>        Blah.__init__(self, parameterA, parameterB)

Calling __init__ in the parent classes is usually necessary. In 
particular, if your derived class has to do some work of its own during 
initialization (which is not true in your example) OR if it inherits 
from more than one class, then it must have an __init__ method of its 
own (as does your example). If it has an __init__ method then that 
method must call __init__ in all parent classes (just those classes from 
which it directly inherits, of course; you don't have to worry about 
classes higher up the hierarchy).

The problem is that your __init__ overrides the __init__ in parent 
classes. Thus the only time you can skip this stuff is if your derived 
class derives from just one parent class and your derived class does not 
have an __init__.

-- Russell


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Nov 17 02:17:57 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:17:57 -0800
Subject: python on unix [getting started]
References: <YnGB9.566$Kw6.401397@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3DD742A5.FA44FDF2@alcyone.com>

dsavitsk wrote:

> In particular, I would like to control mpg123 (i think?).  what is the
> proper way to think about doing something like
> 
> player = win32com.client.Dispatch('mpg123.player')
> player.play('/usr/home/mp3/Some Song.mp3')
> 
> on unix?

Probably something like

	os.system('mpg123 "/usr/home/mp3/Some Song.mp3"')

You will likely find getting things done on UNIX with Python much less
circuitous than on Windows.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ We are victims of our own design
\__/ Oleta Adams
    Bosskey.net: Return to Wolfenstein / http://www.bosskey.net/rtcw/
 A personal guide to Return to Castle Wolfenstein.


From klaatu at evertek.net  Wed Nov 27 10:46:21 2002
From: klaatu at evertek.net (Mike Dean)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:46:21 -0600
Subject: super() and __get__
Message-ID: <as2pf6$j6h$1@ins22.netins.net>

These are probably two separate questions, but...

I was out on Guido's page on Unifying Types and Classes, trying to grok 
super(), metaclasses, and th meaning of life.  I think I get this 
metaclass thing, but let me see if I get this right on super() - all 
super() does, is create an object that responds to attribute access by 
passing that access on to the first object (class, type, whatever) in 
the MRO of the object with which super() was called, starting with the 
type super() was called with (i.e., if class C has 10 base classes & 
types, once all flattened out into the MRO, and class B is the 4th in 
the MRO, then it only searches from B on).  Am I correct?

Now, a couple more questions...

Where did this __get__ thing used in describing super() (and another 
thing or two on that page) come from?  I can't seem to find it in the 
docs anywhere.  It was used in the Python Super() implementation, as 
well as another time or two.

Also, if object is the base class of type, why does object.__mro__ work 
when object defines no __mro__?

And finally, since __mro__ appears to be an attribute merely inherited 
from type by all classes, if I have a fancy, can I override __mro__ to 
suit some bizarre purpose?  Or is it ignored, simply a mechanism to 
access __mro__?  Likewise, why does type also have an mro method, when 
there's __mro__?

Thanks to any who can enlighten me,
Mike


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Nov  3 15:16:19 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 15:16:19 -0500
Subject: PyGTA next meeting (not quite scheduled)
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <aq3dfb$spu$1@news.hccnet.nl> <aq3fib$r1$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1036338670.13556.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dc5842e@news.sentex.net>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
 > Aahz wrote:
 >> <chuckle>  She lives in Toronto (I'm in California) and I'm not
 >> her type. But we'll be seeing each other in Boston next weekend.

> Hmm, maybe the PyGTA group could help by distracting her with a barrage 
> of dates?  It would certainly be less work than building the refactoring 
> tool, and one less person coding Java reduces the total pain in the 
> world just that much more ;) ...
> 
> We needed to have a meeting sometime soon anyway :) ,

On that topic, and since you mentioned it :-) :

Ian Garmaise is working hard to find a venue for the next meeting,
while I'm working hard to get regular ADSL access back up after
moving in the last few weeks. :(

Ian figures we'll be able to have the next meeting in mid-November,
barring unexpected setbacks.

He or I will post here shortly with an announcement, as soon as
something is firm.

Maybe Aahz would like to invite his Java friend to come out and
discuss refactoring code at the next PyGTA meeting.  I'm sure
there are some others who have programmed in Java (I have, at
least) and might have a few things to say one way or the other.

And Mike could ask her for a date, too. ;-)

-Peter

P.S.: Since I never had a chance (or missed a few, anyway) to
put together a nice summary of the last meeting... for the record,
for those interested, the meeting went quite well, with something
like 18 people attending and a broad range of things discussed.
The intention is to hold regularly monthly meetings (though good
venues are an issue), not bother with membership fees (which
makes finding good venues a bit of an issue, hint hint), and
sort of leave things informal until a need arises to do something
differently.  If you want to be put on the mailing list for the
meeting announcements, just ask (by email!).



From gumuz at looze.net  Thu Nov 14 07:15:22 2002
From: gumuz at looze.net (Gumuz)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:15:22 +0100
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <qjDA9.6146$mN6.2823494@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3dd3921c$0$223$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

can you tell me more about this delphi(or vb)+pythonCOM  technique or point
me to some source?

i am pretty capable in Delphi but i really really really really like python
too much, but this gui thing is taking so much time. if there is a nice
possibilty to combine this in a nice way that would be great.


"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
news:qjDA9.6146$mN6.2823494 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> "Gumuz" <gumuz at looze.net> wrote in message
> news:3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net...
>
> > i am using wxPython at the moment as my python gui. Coming from a nice
IDE
> > like Delphi it's really frustrating to get a nice layout together. I
tried
> > some tools. The one i liked most, because of it's simplicity was
wxGlade,
> > but still... it's not there yet. I might have missed something here and
I
> > don't want to complain, but I think that a good, robust gui-designer
will
> > open up a lot of posibilities for python. i might give it a shot!
>
> unless you are needing cross-platform-ination from your gui, why not just
> use Delphi and either use PythonCOM for the code.  I do this w/ VB quite a
> bit.  Or, you might use Python for Delphi
> (http://membres.lycos.fr/marat/delphi/python.htm).  If you do need cross
> platform, port your code to Kylix and tie it to Python ... has anyone done
> this, btw?
>
> -doug
>
>




From logistix at zworg.com  Tue Nov 19 21:40:44 2002
From: logistix at zworg.com (logistix)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 18:40:44 -0800
Subject: popen / batchfile / environment variables
References: <are0ca$bm$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bdb5b58f.0211191840.60bb1239@posting.google.com>

"Achim Domma" <achim.domma at syynx.de> wrote in message news:<are0ca$bm$07$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Hello,
> 
> I want to write a python script with automaticaly builds a VC.Net solution.
> To make VS.Net usable from commandline, I first have to execute a batchfile
> which sets the required environment variables. In a Dos-Box I would do
> something like this:
> 
> path_to\vcvars32.bat
> devenv solution_file.sln /rebuild "Release"
> 
> If I use popen or system to do the same, every call runs in his own
> environment, so the changes made by the .bat file do not change the settings
> for the second call.
> 
> Any idea how to do that in python?
> 
> regards,
> Achim

Use popen2.

Alternately, set the vars in autoexec.bat (not the best choice on a
new machine)  or set them permenantly by right-clicking on My
Computer, Selecting properties... Advanced... Environment Variables
(or use setx).

>>> from popen2 import popen2
>>> output, input = popen2("cmd.exe")
>>> input.write("set foo=bar\n")
>>> input.write("set\n")
>>> input.write("exit\n")
>>> while 1:
... 	text = output.readline()
... 	if not text: break
... 	print text ,
... 	
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Python22\lib\site-packages>set foo=bar

C:\Python22\lib\site-packages>set
ALLUSERSPROFILE=C:\Documents and Settings\All Users
APPDATA=C:\Documents and Settings\grant\Application Data
CommonProgramFiles=C:\Program Files\Common Files
COMPUTERNAME=XP
ComSpec=C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe
foo=bar
HOMEDRIVE=C:
HOMEPATH=\Documents and Settings\grant
INCLUDE=C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio
.NET\FrameworkSDK\include\
LIB=C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio .NET\FrameworkSDK\Lib\
LOGONSERVER=\\XP
NUMBER_OF_PROCESSORS=1
OS=Windows_NT
Path=C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;C:\Program
Files\Support Tools\;C:\Program Files\Resource Kit\;C:\Program
Files\Microsoft SQL Server\80\Tools\Binn\;c:\program files\cvs for
nt\;
PATHEXT=.COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD;.VBS;.VBE;.JS;.JSE;.WSF;.WSH
PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE=x86
PROCESSOR_IDENTIFIER=x86 Family 6 Model 8 Stepping 3, GenuineIntel
PROCESSOR_LEVEL=6
PROCESSOR_REVISION=0803
ProgramFiles=C:\Program Files
PROMPT=$P$G
SESSIONNAME=Console
SystemDrive=C:
SystemRoot=C:\WINDOWS
TEMP=C:\DOCUME~1\grant\LOCALS~1\Temp
TMP=C:\DOCUME~1\grant\LOCALS~1\Temp
USERDOMAIN=XP
USERNAME=grant
USERPROFILE=C:\Documents and Settings\grant
VSCOMNTOOLS="C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio
.NET\Common7\Tools\"
windir=C:\WINDOWS

C:\Python22\lib\site-packages>exit


From gotcha at swing.be  Wed Nov 13 03:25:08 2002
From: gotcha at swing.be (Godefroid Chapelle)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 00:25:08 -0800
Subject: newbie question: how to get directory of script?
References: <4cce07d5.0211120957.6d4934@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3bf37ee3.0211130025.33ac2e95@posting.google.com>

> I want to be able to get the path of the script I am running (the idea
> is that I might have a data file or an ini file sitting in the same
> directory as the py file).  

Try the following :

import os.path
the_module_path, the_module_file = os.path.split(the_module.__file__)


From maney at pobox.com  Fri Nov 15 17:42:31 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:42:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: questions about scope/threading
References: <aoje8k$dpn$1@newsreader.mailgate.org> <aokrjb$eaj$1@newsreader.mailgate.org> <ar122q$gst$1@panix1.panix.com> <ar1tph$q7$1@wheel2.two14.net> <ar1vcf$iu9$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ar3t8n$q9$2@wheel2.two14.net>

Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> One way or another, every object in Python is reachable using Python
> code.

Well, sure.  At least if you subscribe to the peculiar theory that thinks
that gc has to collect every unreachable object before the program exits.

I would complain that you willfully misconstrued my meaning - I was, of
course, thinking about bound objects - but I certainly ought to know better
than to accidentally leave you a semantic ambiguity to play with!  :-)


From heafnerj at spam.vnet.net  Sun Nov  3 21:23:54 2002
From: heafnerj at spam.vnet.net (Joe Heafner)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 20:23:54 -0600
Subject: can't assign value to array element
Message-ID: <HoCdnRcDleGnR1igXTWcqg@ctc.net>

Hi.
In my attempt to seriously learn Python (2.2.1 running on Mac OS X), I've 
been trying to code some simple numerical algorithms. Here is my code for 
one routine:

a=0.
b=1.4
y0=0.
m=10

h = (b-a)/m
t = zeros(m, Float)
t[0] = a
y = zeros(m, Float)
y[0] = b

for j in range(0,m,1):
    print j # for debugging purposes
    t = t[j]
    y = y[j]
    k1 = h*fprimexy(t,y)
    k2 = h*fprimexy(t+h/2., y+0.5*k1)
    k3 = h*fprimexy(t+h/2., y+0.5*k2)
    k4 = h*fprimexy(t+h, y+k3)
    y[j+1] = y+(k1+2.*k2+2.k3+k4)/6.
    t[j+1] = a+h*(j+1)

When run, this code give the error "TypeError: object does not support 
item assignment" for hte next to last line. I presume the last line would 
give the same error. I'm very new to Python and haven't been able to find 
documentation about htis specific problem, and I've been working 
(literally) all day on this. What am I doint wrong? I'd appreciate any 
help.

Thanks.
JH

    


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 25 10:59:34 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:59:34 -0500
Subject: Multi Recipients With smtplib?
References: <mailman.1038231874.18339.python-list@python.org> <NrqE9.83869$iw.18048@FE06> <3DE23E4E.9050804@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <01db01c2949b$a6954f80$6300000a@holdenweb.com>

[Jon Abel]
> Sorry for the confusing question, but you got the gist of it (Phew!).
>  I'm pulling the list of addresses out of .ini file, e.g.
>
> mailfrom=me at mydomain.org
> mailto=you at yourdomain.org,me at myotherdomain.org
>
> Basically, what I was doing, was passing the mailto value to
> .sendmail().  The header seem correct (viewed via Mozilla, with headers
> set to all), which is what was confusing me.
>
> Thanks for the pointers!
>
> Regards
>

OK, so in the sendmail call you should just use something like
mailto.split(",") as the list of recipients.

regards
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/
Previous .sig file retired to                    www.homeforoldsigs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------






From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Wed Nov 27 18:02:33 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:02:33 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <7h3u1i5sxx2.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>; from mwh@python.net on Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 11:19:30AM +0000
References: <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfs <VPecnd0fe8Ljg32gXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <7h3u1i5sxx2.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20021128000233.S11257@prim.han.de>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
> 
> > There was much discussion about which of dict.iterkeys(), iteritems(),
> > or itervalues() should be the default for 'in dict' both for 'if key
> > in dict' and 'for key in dict'.  Note that since 'in seq' means same
> > sequence in both contexts for other containers (and same underlying
> > code is used to get sequence) it was wanted to keep 'in dict' meaning
> > same also.  The consensus, considering use cases for both
> > constructions, was that keys are most ofter what is wanted.  Think 'is
> > word in dictionary' rather than 'is word,definition in dictionary'.
> > Normal use of phonebook is similar.
> 
> For what it's worth (not much) I'm forever writing 
> 
> for k, v in d:
>     ....
> 
> I can see the arguments for consistency, but I think this is my most
> reliable Python error at the moment.

TypeError: unpack non-sequence

is also my number one "basic" error i am producing.
But why don't i get it?  My subconscious reasoning seems
to insist that 'for ... in y' should iterate over *everything* in y
not just some part of it. 

or-so'ly holger



From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Tue Nov 26 04:24:54 2002
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 09:24:54 GMT
Subject: problem with win32com server
References: <arve0p$rq422$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
Message-ID: <arvel6$rq422$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Uwe Schmitt <uwe.schmitt at procoders.net> wrote:

> Hi, I wrote a COM server in python which works well if I use
> a python script as client. But if I try Delphi or VBA to 
> access the server, I get:

>    Unexpected Python Error : exceptions.TypeError: unsubcriptable object

> I used py2exe and registred the .exe as COM server.
> My server script uses numarray. Is this a known bug ?

I forgot the message VBS results in:

     Unexpected Python Error: libnumarray.error: copy8bytes: acess beyond buffer, offset=63 buffersize032
     Quelle: Python COM Server Internal Error.


Greetings, Uwe

-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt      Computer science is no more about Computers,
uwe.schmitt at num.uni-sb.de      than astronomy is about telescopes. (Dijkstra)
http://www.procoders.net           


From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Tue Nov 12 00:22:42 2002
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:22:42 +0800
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
Message-ID: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F01BC8B@mexper1.maptek.net.au>

Oh yeah... right... Email marketing? I don't think you will get any help
from this forumn when it comes to Spamming!



From davegaramond at icqmail.com  Sun Nov 10 15:25:42 2002
From: davegaramond at icqmail.com (David Garamond)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:25:42 -0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <3DCEC0C6.8000609@icqmail.com>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Recently, I wrote a number-crunching program in Lisp. A typical
> function in which look something like this:
> 
> (defun Hpp (x s z)
>   #i(sqrt(Vpp(x s z)-gamma)/(x^2+s^4) -
>      exp(sin(Tpp(x s))/(2*b1(x s)))))
> 
> (Incidentally, Lisp's _syntax_ made it possible for me to write a
> macro which automatically re-structures my numerical functions in a
> way which makes the program run 17 times faster.)

yes, that's good and all. the only problem is, most people _don't 
like_it. they are _allergic_ to ((())). so what gives? the things that 
will make them like:

  (+ 1 1)

over (or the same as):

  1+1

are probably only brain surgery and heavy brainwashing.

> Lisp is a slow, interpreted, purely-functional language, in which the
> only datatype is the list, it needs specialst hardware to run on, is
> solely responsible for the failure of AI, and died over a decade
> ago. Right?
> 
> (Just in case anyone doesn't get it, _everything_ in the previous
> paragraph is a lie.)

i do believe many people (though "many" here is not to be meant as 
anywhere "near mainstream") know that lisp is powerful and has 
interesting concepts (for me it's the "program-as-a-list", which is 
truly spectacular). so i'm not bashing lisp here, my only point is and 
has been that people don't like the syntax. syntax matters, so all the 
other things that lisp has can't attract them to embrace and stay with 
lisp. and that's a shame, but that's the way it is.

-- 
dave




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 19 19:38:30 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 00:38:30 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <areli6$ris$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:17:03 GMT, Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote:

>Grant Edwards wrote:
>> I'm trying to figure out how WaitCommEvent() works in Python,
>> and it looks like there's a problem when it's used in
>> overlapped mode.
>> 
>> My understanding is that (in C) you:
>> 
>>  1) Call WaitCommEvent() and give it three parameters:
>>      * File handle
>>      * a pointer to where the output mask value is to be stored
>>      * a pointer to an overlapped struct
>>     
>>  2) WaitCommEvent() returns immediately.
>> 
>>  3) Call one of the WaitXXX() functions to wait on the event in
>>     the overloapped struct.
>> 
>>  4) When the event is triggered WaitXXX() returns. Check the
>>     value stored via the output mask pointer passed in 1)
>>     above.
>> 
>> [I've gleaned most of this from
>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/devio/base/waitcommevent.asp]
>
>I don't think this last step is correct.  Certainly the link you posted 
>doesn't say this is true.  Looking further, I can't find *anything* that 
>implies this is true.
>
>KB Q175551 has sample code for Windows CE that uses overlapped IO, and 
>it examines the mask immediately after the call.
>
>Further, if what you say is correct, I would expect Python COM port 
>based programs to regularly crash!  In your scenario, by the time the 
>overlapped function ended up writing to our mask variable, that address 
>would be invalid.  However, it would be pretty close to the top of the 
>stack, so I would expect it to corrupt whatever was running when the 
>mask was actually written.  I know a number of people have used these 
>APIs to do serious serial port control - either directly, or via another 
>wrapper.  I would be very surprised we survived this long.
>
>Can you find an explicit reference to this?
>
>Mark.
>
==== from an old win32 help file that may have come with an old version of Delphi ?? ======

The WaitCommEvent function waits for an event to occur
for a specified communications device. The set of events
that are monitored by this function is contained in the
event mask associated with the device handle. 

BOOL WaitCommEvent(
    HANDLE  hCommDev,       // handle of communications device
    LPDWORD  lpfdwEvtMask,  // address of variable for event that occurred  
    LPOVERLAPPED  lpo,      // address of overlapped structure
);	


Parameters
hCommDev
  Identifies the communications device. The CreateFile function returns this handle. 

lpfdwEvtMask
  Points to a 32-bit variable that receives a mask indicating the
  type of event that occurred. If an error occurs, the value is zero;
  otherwise, it is one of the following values: 

Value          Meaning
EV_BREAK       A break was detected on input.
EV_CTS         The CTS (clear-to-send) signal changed state.
EV_DSR         The DSR (data-set-ready) signal changed state.
EV_ERR         A line-status error occurred. Line-status errors are CE_FRAME, CE_OVERRUN, and CE_RXPARITY.
EV_RING        A ring indicator was detected.
EV_RLSD        The RLSD (receive-line-signal-detect) signal changed state.
EV_RXCHAR      A character was received and placed in the input buffer.
EV_RXFLAG      The event character was received and placed in the input buffer.
                 The event character is specified in the device's DCB structure,
                 which is applied to a serial port by using the SetCommState function.
EV_TXEMPTY     The last character in the output buffer was sent.


lpo
  Points to an OVERLAPPED structure. This parameter is ignored if the hCommDev
  handle was opened without specifying the FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED flag.
  If an overlapped operation is not desired, this parameter can be NULL. 

Return Value
  If the function succeeds, the return value is TRUE.
  If the function fails, the return value is FALSE. To get extended error information, call GetLastError. 

Remarks
  The WaitCommEvent function monitors a set of events for a specified
    communications resource. To set and query the current event mask of a communications resource,
    use the SetCommMask and GetCommMask functions. 

  If the lpo parameter is NULL or the hCommDev handle was opened without specifying
    the FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED flag, WaitCommEvent does not return until one of the specified
    events or an error occurs. 

  If lpo points to an OVERLAPPED structure and FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED was specified when the
    hCommDev handle was opened, WaitCommEvent is performed as an overlapped operation.
    In this case, the OVERLAPPED structure must contain a handle to a manual-reset event object
    (created by using the CreateEvent function). 

  If the overlapped operation cannot be completed immediately, the function returns FALSE and
    the GetLastError function returns ERROR_IO_PENDING, indicating that the operation is executing
    in the background. When this happens, the system sets the hEvent member of the OVERLAPPED
    structure to the not-signaled state before WaitCommEvent returns, and then it sets it to the
    signaled state when one of the specified events or an error occurs. The calling process can
                                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
    use a wait function to determine the event object's state and then use the GetOverlappedResult
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    function to determine the results of the WaitCommEvent operation. GetOverlappedResult reports
                                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    the success or failure of the operation, and the variable pointed to by the lpfdwEvtMask
                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    parameter is set to indicate the event that occurred. 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  If a process attempts to change the device handle's event mask by using the SetCommMask
    function while an overlapped WaitCommEvent operation is in progress, WaitCommEvent returns
    immediately. The variable pointed to by the lpfdwEvtMask parameter is set to zero. 

See Also
  CreateFile, DCB, GetCommMask, GetOverlappedResult, OVERLAPPED, SetCommMask, SetCommState 

==========================================

Sounds like the mask location is safe if you don't call GetOverlappedResult ??


Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 21 14:44:32 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 19:44:32 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037846248.22487.python-list@python.org> <m2bs4jc8jl.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <tZ5D9.36447$744.1329828@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <arjd30$2uk$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:21:13 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

>Paul Foley wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:36:24 +0800, Maptek  wrote:
>> 
>>> Even if Python and Ruby have or will have the _capabilities_ that Lisp
>>> has, (Python (will (never (be (lisp))))).
>> 
>> Then it'll never have the _capabilities_ that Lisp has; because the
>> syntax is the major source of those _capabilities_ that distinguish
>> Lisp from lesser languages.
>
>It seems to me that Dylan is a creditable attempt to deny this assertion -- 
>Dylan has no lisp-oid syntax, yet Dylan's capabilities do appear to be 
>quite similar to Lisp's at least at the level of approximation that "major 
>source" would seem to entail.
>
You may find it interesting that Dylan started out "lisp-oid" ;-)

In '93 I sent for Apple's Dylan manual, and the version copyright 1992
(which I still have) starts out the "Syntax and Semantics" chapter with
a "Lexical Notation" subheading followed by

    "Dylan programs are written using a parenthesized Lisp notation.[4]"

Footnote 4 said, "A future version of Dylan may support Algol-like or
other syntax in addition to Lisp syntax."

>From the introduction in that book:

    "Dylan is a simple dialect of Lisp with a thoroughly integrated object model..."

and

    "To those familiar with the Lisp family of languages, Dylan looks like
Scheme augmented with CLOS. However Dylan is not intended primarily for
the Lisp community. The real target audience of Dylan is application developers
now [1992] using languages such as C, C++, and Pascal who are ready to move
up to Object Oriented Dynamic Languages. Thus compatibility with other List
dialects such as Scheme and Common Lisp is not a primary goal. Dylan has been
rethought from the ground up, on a fully object oriented foundation. A primary
goal was to make the language as simple as possible, but no simpler. We have
tried to avoid multiple ways to do the same thing, to omit features that
are difficult for the average application developer to understand and use effectively,
to leave out anything that we do not know how to implement efficiently in both
space and time, and to provide a clear separation of the language executed at
run time from the development tools..."

(my [1992] annotation).
Anyway, Dylan's link to Lisp would seem pretty explicit historically, whatever the current
status (which I haven't followed... so many pretty things, so little time ;-).

ISTM that power comes from clean abstractions first, and representation syntax third.
What comes a close second to the first is that the syntax support operating on
representions as such in a way that well models the operations you are
trying to do with the corresponding abstract entities and their relationships.
The best abstractions are ones that can easily be found and assembled to reflect
the structure and dynamics of the concrete without introducing illusory aspects.

IOW, ISTM what you want to do lives in the abstract world. Representations are a necessity,
but they should not get in the way, or distort semantics or add irrelevancies. The best
representations make imagining the abstractions easy, and have transformations that
correspond to useful transformations in the abstract.

Lean domain-specific syntax makes it easier for domain specialists to focus on the essentials
when thinking about their problems, but the down side of a capability to create specialized
syntax is inappropriate use and muddying the concept space of a clean and adequate base language.

My .02 USD ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From blarson at crary.com  Tue Nov  5 14:25:19 2002
From: blarson at crary.com (Bradley D. Larson)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:25:19 -0600
Subject: sre_constants.error: bogus escape
Message-ID: <3DC81B1F.C367AB25@crary.com>

What is the best method of changing a \ character to something else

I'm trying to use re....

        pat = re.compile('\\');  ts = pat.sub(':',ts)

which produces....

  File "C:\PYTHON21\Lib\sre.py", line 90, in compile
    return _compile(pattern, flags)
  File "C:\PYTHON21\Lib\sre.py", line 136, in _compile
    raise error, v # invalid expression
sre_constants.error: bogus escape


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From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Nov 19 17:17:45 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 14:17:45 -0800
Subject: wxPython crashing windows
In-Reply-To: <3DDAA93F.40007@cyberspace.org>
References: <3DDAA93F.40007@cyberspace.org>
Message-ID: <1037744265.26202.1358.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Tue, 2002-11-19 at 13:12, trewornan wrote:
> Well the subject says it all - has anyone else found wxPython crashing 
> windows (all the way to a blue screen). Even the most basic program 
> seems to do this.


Check line 10 in your program.


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From mrf at gmx.de  Thu Nov  7 06:33:20 2002
From: mrf at gmx.de (MRF)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 03:33:20 -0800
Subject: Answer to Mod_python and Apache problems: make_obcallback(): could not import mod_python.apache
Message-ID: <5cffb95c.0211070333.ffc7829@posting.google.com>

Hello,

i had read a lot of Questions to Mod_python and a problem
with the following error

make_obcallback(): could not import mod_python.apache

all the time i read about this, the used System was win2000,
today i start to use mod_python and run in the same problem,
but no answer to this problem helps.

after some frustration, 
here is a solution for my system:

the installation should be make like described in mod_python
install, but the problem in my system was:

the active python installation, has wrong access rights at the
python22/lib directory. Only the user that installed active python,
had the right to work on this directory, but apache runs under the
system acount.
after changing the access rights, all stuff work very well.

Greats

Matthias


From bondpaper at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  7 04:42:57 2002
From: bondpaper at earthlink.net (Tom)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:42:57 GMT
Subject: Install question
Message-ID: <bondpaper-5879FE.02485507112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net>

Hello,

I've been trying to install a package (Numeric Python), but when I go to 
build it (on Red Linux 7.3 system), I get an error telling me that it 
cannot find /usr/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile. My python2 installation 
was done directly from RPMS available on the python.org site. Can anyone 
tell me what this config/Makefile stuff is about, and what I can do to 
fix the problem?

Thanks a bunch.

Regards,

Tom


From ferrell at diablotech.com  Thu Nov 14 14:24:49 2002
From: ferrell at diablotech.com (Robert Ferrell)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 11:24:49 -0800
Subject: __slots__ and metaclasses
Message-ID: <73b00f0c.0211141124.1540cc98@posting.google.com>

How can I set the __slots__ attribute for a class in the classes
metaclass?  I tried adding:

    setattr(cls, '__slots__', __slots__)

to the __init__ method in the metaclass, but that did not work.  Is
what I'm trying to do even possible?  I've read what I could find
about metaclasses and __slots__, and I've mostly got the metaclasses
working for me.  But I'm stuck on this one point.  Any help/pointers
will be greatly appreciated.

thanks,
-robert


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov  1 13:06:13 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:06:13 -0500
Subject: ActivePython 2.2.1
References: <3dc29edd_2@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <N7ucnWaWkrewXF-gXTWcoA@comcast.com>

"pu" <pu at myRealBox.com> wrote in message news:3dc29edd_2 at news.vo.lu...
> Hello all,
> I am currently considering to use ActivePython, but I have two
questions
> about this:
> - is ActivePython 2.2.1 based on Python 2.2.2, or on an other
version?

2.2.1

> - what is the normal elapsed time between an official Python
release, and
> the release of an updated version of ActivePython?

I believe above was a month or less after official 2.2.1

TJR




From usenet at jasoegaard.dk  Sun Nov 10 12:24:18 2002
From: usenet at jasoegaard.dk (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jens_Axel_S=F8gaard?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:24:18 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqlos7$66p$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <qpwz9.16127$oC3.1394670@news010.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <3dce96ad$0$12451$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

Anders J. Munch wrote:
> "Pascal Costanza" <costanza at web.de> wrote:
> 
>>Michael Hudson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Did you know that s-exps (i.e. the paren heavy Lisp we know today) was
>>>intended to be a temporary syntax, and that John McCarthy intended to
>>>develop a more familiar syntax for Lisp?  Somehow he never did --
>>>maybe because it turned out to be a bad idea?
>>
>>He did. But the programmers who were already using Lisp didn't accept
>>the new syntax. They preferred s-exps.
> 
> 
> I'm curious: what exactly did McCarthy's new syntax look like?  Have
> you got any pointers to specs, examples or such on the web?

I can't remember a link - but if you want to Google for them,
they were calles M-expressions.

I can't remember if the M-expressions were implementes or whether
they are to be found in McCarthy's articles from that perioed.



From slzatz at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  4 22:03:21 2002
From: slzatz at hotmail.com (Steve Zatz)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 19:03:21 -0800
Subject: Tkinter File Dialog Question
References: <6747bc9d.0211021953.4fd02462@posting.google.com> <l7px9.9$pU4.435@news.get2net.dk> <6747bc9d.0211040501.2e8000b5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036418945.26049.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6747bc9d.0211041903.70bc9788@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the responses.  Since I need the app to work under Windows,
I may be stuck. I am using currently using Tk/Tcl 8.3 with 2.2.2.  Any
advice as to how to upgrade to 8.4 -- do I have to replace
_tkinter.pyd?


From 2002 at weholt.org  Sun Nov  3 17:57:59 2002
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 22:57:59 GMT
Subject: Extending distutils ??
Message-ID: <XRhx9.375$P35.11936@news2.ulv.nextra.no>

Distutils is great, but adding a few features would make it almost perfect.
Since we allready got a documentation package in the standard distro why
can't Distutils generate documentation using pydoc in the process of
generating a package for distribution? It could create a folder called
doumentation in the root folder of the distribution, putting generated
html-files in that folder, creating subfolders and organizing the files as
needed.

Another thing could be to generate a test-suite for the package using the
doctest-module. The unittest-module is better, but a bit more work and
therefore often skipped. If done right, the documentation in the modules
itself would be used automatically in the distutils-package, providing
up-to-date documentation located in one place and a simple test-suite for
the entire package, placed in one file with a standard name like
package-test.py or something. That way it could be run both before releasing
the package, testing its integrity and for end-users after downloading the
software.

A few parameters could be added to the distutils setup-method;
documentation-folder and test-suite-filename ( ok, those names suck, but you
get the idea ).

If anybody has done any such thing I'd be glad to try their solutions out.
:-)

Best regards,
Thomas




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov  1 20:40:22 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 01:40:22 GMT
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg> <3mrw9.71925$TD1.3188780@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <apvae6$9gp$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:57:35 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
[...]
>
>It is conceptually impossible to stop a halfway-competent 'cracker'
>from disassembling any compiled form of your program if they have
>any interest at all in it (or even if they don't: they DO do it just
>for fun even for programs they have no earthly use for), as long as
>you distribute your program in a fully executable form for general
>purpose computers.  If the GP computer can get at your program, as
>it must to be able to execute it, so can the cracker.  In some cases
>you may be able to achieve a measure of protection if your program
>can only execute when connected to some Internet site: in that kind
>of scenario, you may be able to check that connections only come
>from validly registered sites.  But in general, you should rely on
>the law to protect your programs against unauthorized use, not on
>illusory "protection".  "Security through obscurity isn't".

I am afraid that the "GP computer" will soon have right in the CPU chip
the microcoded ability to input a byte stream from memory that is
digitally signed and encrypted with the CPU's public key, and
decrypt it into an on-chip cache memory that never gets written to
RAM (or if it does, through an xor prng encryption mask), and execute it.

I think they're moving the concept of a computer receiving trusted code
securely over an insecure network to a concept where the CPU chip
looks at the motherboard as part of the insecure network.

It's not a big conceptual leap. The details are just a bunch of engineering.
(However, no doubt this simple conceptual move from computer to CPU chip
will be loaded with patents on obvious ideas that have been in place in
bigger contexts for ages).

I think you can resign yourself to the idea that it will eventually
become as hard to decrypt a private message to a CPU as it is to do
the same to a PGP-encrypted email message to you. The message will
only be opened on-chip, using the chip's private key. It'll execute
as written or it won't execute at all. Either way only the CPU will see it.

Obviously you have to build stuff into an OS to make use of this stuff,
and no doubt it will start with the BIOS below that.

There will be a lot of opportunities to form exclusive clubs of hardware
and software vendors. Even if the technology itself is as open and royalty-free
as PGP, so that Linux/BSD/etc can also use it for bullet-proofing, it could mean
that the latter will not be able to interoperate except when others choose,
unless non-exclusion is guaranteed by laws with really big teeth.

The technology is neutral, but the temptations it affords are not.
Oh well, I guess it's all part of economic evolution, moving from
selling atoms to selling bits to selling permission ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 18 18:45:55 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:45:55 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <eCeC9.26263$744.955879@news1.tin.it> <rReC9.17366$0U1.1726665@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <TYeC9.26326$744.959069@news1.tin.it>

Richard Dillingham wrote:

>> It's better written as:
>>
>> if coords[0]<=posx<=coords[2] and coords[1]<=posy<=coords[3]:
> 
> Hmm.... I just tried that, and am quite amazed to find that it actually
> works.

Python comparison operators CHAIN -- a wonderful little trait...

I'd never use it confusingly with e.g. x > y <= z (it would work for
that, too, but I think it's unreadable...) -- but with comparisons
going uniformly left-right, it's quite readable IMHO.


Alex



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Nov 11 16:54:37 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:54:37 +0100
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
In-Reply-To: <m3r8drn6pz.fsf@localhost.localdomain>; from paul.rudin@ntlworld.com on Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 09:20:56PM +0000
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037014155.15486.python-list@python.org> <uel9sryab.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037025979.11547.python-list@python.org> <u4raorv6r.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037031266.12200.python-list@python.org> <m34raoneo6.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <mailman.1037047517.29353.python-list@python.org> <m3r8drn6pz.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20021111225437.Y30315@prim.han.de>

Paul Rudin wrote:
> >>>>> "holger" == holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:
> 
> 
>  holger> if you are doing this often of course you could write a
>  holger> helper...  but
> 
> But what kind of helper? Writing a function doesn't get round the
> unnecessary evaluation problem. (Arguably it also doesn't entirely help
> with the obfuscation problem either.)

yip, you are basically right although there are some tricks.

>  >> Personally I'd prefer to be able to write something like:
>  >> 
>  >> def foo(x,y,....): return func1(x,y,..) + if some_test:
>  >> func2(x,y...)  else: func3(x,y..)
> 
>  holger> def foo(*args): return func1(*args) + (func2,func3)[not
>  holger> some_test](*args)
> 
> Yah - I didn't mean to imply that the arity and order of the arguments
> was necessarily always the same.

It appeared to me that 'some_test' was a switch for dispatching
to either of two functions taking the same arguments.  

btw, if you have a series of tests and even more functions then 
python syntax and idioms scale quite well (IMO, of course).

I am sure that the more concrete your code snippet is the better 
i can come up with a concise syntactic/semantic minimalization.

but it's of course ok, too, to stop if you've had enough :-)

cheers,

    holger



From willie at nospam.&macleod-group.com  Mon Nov 18 21:33:13 2002
From: willie at nospam.&macleod-group.com (William MacLeod)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:33:13 +0000
Subject: Access to Python/SQL
References: <24vitu0d93ksc5biv4re3gr3d1ocntpqli@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.19.02.33.13.859464@nospam.&macleod-group.com>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:53:26 +0000, C42 wrote:

> I currently have several Microsoft Access databases.
> 
> My long term goal is to move the data to an SQL server and create
> web-based front-ends using Python to access them.
> 
> Does anyone have any recommendations?
> 
> Is there a framework and/or web app server that would make this easy?

Look at www.gnuenterprise.org

Regards

William MacLeod


From goldbb2 at earthlink.net  Tue Nov 12 16:47:59 2002
From: goldbb2 at earthlink.net (Benjamin Goldberg)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:47:59 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DD12795.23E2F02F@man.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DD1770F.4FEAB063@earthlink.net>

Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> 
> Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> > The set of bytecodes which Parrot will be using has been decided,
> > and while it's not fixed in stone, it's quite unlikely to get a
> > whole other language's bytecodes added to it.
> 
> OK, let's go for a more concrete question.  What sequence of bytecodes
> would let me open a socket and talk to a remote host?  The Parrot I/O
> operation opcodes don't mention anything about sockets and nor can I
> tell how I would invoke a piece of helper C or C++ to do the job on my
> behalf.

Just as there are "stdio", "unix", and "win32" ParrotIO layers, one
would define a "socket" layer (and maybe an "xti" layer, for the really
adventurous).  Obviously, this needs a bit more C code to be added.

Once that layer is added, you could read from and write to sockets just
like you would from files.

-- 
my $n = 2; print +(split //, 'e,4c3H r ktulrnsJ2tPaeh'
."\n1oa! er")[map $n = ($n * 24 + 30) % 31, (42) x 26]


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Tue Nov 26 16:14:50 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:14:50 +1100
Subject: Website development and python
In-Reply-To: <29e8aa77.0211260432.4743830c@posting.google.com>
References: <29e8aa77.0211260432.4743830c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200211270814.50961.rjones@ekit-inc.com>

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:32 pm, o maj wrote:
> Hello,
> I work with a team who set up networks and databases for small
> companies. We have been repeatedly asked if we could also design their
> websites, but we dont have much knowledge or experience in that.
> [snip]
> Could someone please give me a big picture of the various tools and
> methods i need, and where they fit in the puzzle and also where I can
> find more resources?

http://www.python.org/topics/web/

(via the Topic Guides link on the python.org front page)


    Richard




From theller at python.net  Thu Nov 21 16:02:01 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 22:02:01 +0100
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <u1iaskl2.fsf@python.net>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> I recently announced ctypes, see
> http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes.html
> 
> I've got some enthusiastic responses, and also some requests to port
> this to other systems. So I'm currently porting it to Linux.
> 
> I have an early version running, but I have some questions ...

Status update for those interested:

The linux version is running as far as I can test it.  Not very far
probably, but I have simple libc samples working including callbacks
with printf, time, and the qsort functions.  This uses libffi.

Now I'm implementing (read hacking) libffi to work under Windows so
that I don't have to use other code here.

Thomas


From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Thu Nov 14 16:14:05 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:14:05 GMT
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <rf18tugkn71ms2o3le03sk5ui0s1d7nvon@4ax.com>

On 14 Nov 2002 07:38:43 -0800, marvelan at hotmail.com (M) wrote:
(edit)
>The new enumerate or zip function. If you look at the code using this function 
>it is not at all obvious what the code does.

Actually, a lot of the things that seem strange to you come directly
from the functional programming world.  I have a functional
programming background coming from LISP and Mathematica, so I was
happy to see 'reduce' and 'zip' as built in functions and I use them
often.

Python contains very few "innovations", most everything is borrowed
from other languages.  Some of these languages are obscure when
compared to Java or C++, like Haskell, the language that Python
borrowed list comprehensions from.  I believe the only places where
Python really "innovated" was with indentation for defining blocks and
namespaces.  My point being that anything that seems strange in Python
would probably be second nature to another programmer who comes from a
different background.

Be that as it may, from my experience, programmers from any background
can write non-trivial programs in Python during their first days
learning the language.  I believe no other language comes close.

Manuel


From ckasso at sprynet.com  Fri Nov  1 02:00:51 2002
From: ckasso at sprynet.com (Chris Kassopulo)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 02:00:51 -0500
Subject: PyQwt
References: <3znw9.43274$iV1.36511@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <20021101020051.7131f0ad.ckasso@sprynet.com>

On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 04:38:23 GMT
Mark <Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to play with PyQwt.
> 
> Is PyKDE needed for    qtmod.sip?

No, it is in the PyQt package.

Chris Kassopulo


From nicola.musatti at objectway.it  Fri Nov 29 10:46:54 2002
From: nicola.musatti at objectway.it (Nicola Musatti)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:46:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Parser building in Python
References: <mailman.1038579752.350.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <05312eedc21a8885b4784d1b1291ee5b.2394@mygate.mailgate.org>

"ml" <ml at knorke.in-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:mailman.1038579752.350.python-list at python.org

> Hi,
> 
> I like to write a parser in Python.  The language itself is
> not LALR(1), but I could do some tricks to make it LALR(1).
> What are the best tools to write lexers and parsers in
> Python?  Maybe sth. similar to ANTLR?

PLY is not LALR(1), but its learning curve is almost flat. A good
starting point, in my opinion.
It's here: http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/ply/

Cheers,
Nicola Musatti


-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG


From mwh at python.net  Mon Nov 25 10:21:39 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:21:39 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <yfsbs4grxl0.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <1038162975.415777@yasure>
Message-ID: <7h3el99smpj.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> writes:

> | It would seem to me that most or all of the benfits of static typing can be
> | obtained from tools.
> 
> It can't.  In places where the program itself is determined by run time
> inputs - like in the case of the module that's imported that way - your
> tool is of no use.

Of course, such tricks are flat out impossible in a static language, no?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  ZAPHOD:  You know what I'm thinking?
    FORD:  No.
  ZAPHOD:  Neither do I.  Frightening isn't it?
                   -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 11


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov 15 06:02:19 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 05:02:19 -0600
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <ar2bqj$e5a$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
        <ar1buq$1ib4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
        <m2wunfh1y4.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
        <ar2bqj$e5a$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <15828.54331.150056.328061@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >>> On the other hand, I like zip just fine (though I lament the lack of an 
    >>> unzip counterpart).
    >> 
    >> Eh?  Zip is its own inverse!

    Carl> Sure?

Was he perhaps referring to zip the command, and not zip the builtin
function? 

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From kuros at pgtv.net  Sun Nov 10 20:58:44 2002
From: kuros at pgtv.net (Kuros)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:58:44 GMT
Subject: Reusing Address with Sockets
Message-ID: <o9Ez9.384$hl7.187195619@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>

Hello,

I am writing a TCP server program, and everything is working fine, except 
for one minor problem. When I close the program, I cannot reuse the same 
address, I have to change the port it runs on. Now, I've tried to do this:

sock.setsockopt(SO_REUSEADDR, SO_LINGER, 1)

But that does not work. 

This is my code I use to create the socket...

        self._sock.bind(('', port))
        self._sock.setblocking(0)
        self._sock.listen(5)

Could someone point out what I am doing wrong?
Any help is greatly appreciated!

Kuros


From reyesricardo at myrealbox.com  Thu Nov 28 22:08:33 2002
From: reyesricardo at myrealbox.com (Ricardo M. Reyes)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:08:33 -0300
Subject: Services in Python
In-Reply-To: <74184752269.20021128223532@myrealbox.com>
References: <mailman.1038527560.11696.python-list@python.org>
 <as6c8c$d79$1@news.eusc.inter.net> <74184752269.20021128223532@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <96190137042.20021129000833@myrealbox.com>

>> I'm considering using Python to write a little smtp server, to do some
>> automated processing of emails in my office, and I need to know if
>> it's possible to make a server in Python that runs permanently under NT
>> server, even when there's no user logged in, like if it was a service.

DD> http://www.python.org/windows/win32/#NTServices

thanks, it seems to be what I need.

-- 
Ricardo M. Reyes          | (Mar del Plata - Argentina)
                          | Usando The Bat! 1.60c




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov 13 04:54:19 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:54:19 -0800
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD1AB92.3030409@something.invalid> <aqt5h1$7d1$1@serv.vrn.ru>
Message-ID: <3DD2214B.731CE9A@alcyone.com>

Lexy Zhitenev wrote:

> What is this 'const' name? I haven't ever heard of this in Python.

It isn't anything; he's proposing a new feature.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The woman's movement is no longer a cause but a symptom.
\__/ Joan Didion
    Bosskey.net: Aliens vs. Predator 2 / http://www.bosskey.net/avp2/
 A personal guide to Aliens vs. Predator 2.


From msoulier at storm.ca._nospam  Mon Nov 18 21:40:41 2002
From: msoulier at storm.ca._nospam (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 02:40:41 GMT
Subject: multi-quoted strings for HERE documents
References: <slrnatj24u.7mq.msoulier@tigger.digitaltorque.ca> <mailman.1037667822.8551.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnatj95q.7mq.msoulier@tigger.digitaltorque.ca>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:02:16 -0800, Chad Netzer <cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov>
wrote:
> 
> print """\
><table>
>     <tr>
>         <td>cell contents</td>
>     </r>
></table>"""

    Cool, I thought that the backslash there would have ended up in the
output, but I suppose it removes the significance of the newline in this case. 

    Thanks, another pet peeve down. :)

    Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at storm.ca>, GnuPG pub key: 5BC8BE08
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to Unix
HTML Email Considered Harmful: http://expita.com/nomime.html


From kemu at sdf-eu.org  Sat Nov 23 09:13:27 2002
From: kemu at sdf-eu.org (Jonas Geiregat)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:13:27 +0100
Subject: wxPython probleme
Message-ID: <3ddf8d9b$0$205$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

I have 2 questions
1.the lines I've commented out don't work and I don't see the probleme
2.I want to create a function so I can save what I typed in in a file I 
know how to write to a file but I don't know what variable the 
wxTextCtrl uses in other words what var do I have to write to the file ?

here is the code:



import sys, os
from   wxPython.wx import *

ID_OPEN = 101
ID_SAVE = 102
ID_EXIT = 103

class main_window(wxFrame):
       def __init__(self, parent, id, title):
       	        wxFrame.__init__(self, parent, -1, title, size = 
(500,500),style=wxDEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE|wxNO_FULL_REPAINT_ON_RESIZE)
      		
		self.CreateStatusBar()
		self.SetStatusText("small editor")
		
		M_file = wxMenu()
		M_file.Append(ID_OPEN,"&Open","Open a file")
		M_file.Append(ID_SAVE,"&Save","Save a file")
		M_file.Append(ID_EXIT,"&Quit","Quit this small editor")
		
		menuBar = wxMenuBar()
		menuBar.Append(M_file,"&File")
		self.SetMenuBar(menuBar)
		
		self.control = wxTextCtrl(self, -1, style=wxTE_MULTILINE)
     	        self.Show(true)
		
# 		EVT_MENU(self, ID_EXIT,  self.TimeToQuit)
#				
#	def TimeToQuit(self, event):
#	       self.Close(true)
				
	
		
			
class App(wxApp):
         def OnInit(self):
             frame = main_window(None, -1, "wxPython: (A Demonstration)")
             frame.Show(true)
	    self.SetTopWindow(frame)
             return true
app = App(0)
app.MainLoop()



From webmaster at clasp.org  Thu Nov  7 15:42:07 2002
From: webmaster at clasp.org (dapmco)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:42:07 -0500
Subject: Date/Time Conversion
References: <mailman.1036696150.11839.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eeAy9.46$4G5.20100@news.abs.net>

Thanks Paul.. That worked fine. I looked at the docs but could not figure
out how to do this. A couple of routines looked like they would work but I
couldnt seem to invoke them on my Windows platform

Input a date in some format ex 01/01/1990..
Return the number of seconds between 01/01/1970 and the date entered.

Dave


"Paul Osman" <paul.osman at sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:mailman.1036696150.11839.python-list at python.org...
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, dapmco wrote:
>
> > Im new to Python.. I have it installed on a win2k server. Im trying to
> > figure out how to return the date if I enter a number corresponding
> > to # of seconds since the Epoch
> >
> > Anyone know of a good site with example code??
> >
> > Dave
>
> You'll want to look at the Python Library Reference for the
> time module:
>
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-time.html
>
> Example code:
>
> import time
> time_stamp = 1036695674
> print time.strftime("%B %d %Y", time.localtime(time_stamp))
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Paul Osman
> posman at linux.ca
> http://paul.codecipher.com
>
>




From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 20 22:11:23 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:11:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com> <pan.2002.11.19.13.54.54.356611@battleface.com> <CWsC9.28249$744.1024358@news1.tin.it> <pan.2002.11.19.22.58.58.67571@battleface.com> <n2JC9.30839$744.1139538@news1.tin.it> <argdnk$6ed$1@wheel2.two14.net> <7SUC9.34440$744.1277405@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <arhisr$6k9$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
> I accepted it as posted and built on it -- so I don't see why you're
> claiming that this is a differentiator between Alexander's aproach
> and mine.

Because I had been trying to resist this thread, so when I gave in I
was responding somewhat to the whole context... and overlooked that
Alexander had first introduced that.  Quite possibly I didn't read that
one all the way to that code?

>> This is one point on which I agree with Alexander: it seems to me to be
>> the usual case that the regexp both identifies and parses the target.
> 
> It's one case, but it's very far from being the only one.

Right, and I didn't say it was.  I notice you aren't disagreeing that
it's a very common style of use, and this both-identifying-and-parsing
use has been at least implied all along.  It was explicitly described,
though not explicitly shown in the pseudo-code snippets, back in the
first post in this thread.

>> If it isn't being used in that dual mode, then the whole issue
>> addressed here (and in at least two other threads during the past week)
>> doesn't exist.
> 
> Why doesn't it?  Alexander's post to which I was replying had no
> groups at all in the regex patterns 

Not in the sample code, no.  There were groups in a lot of non-code
exposition, and as I say, they've been implicitly and explicitly a
major part of the motivation for this, at least IMO.  After all, if you
don't have any groups, what do you need the match object for outside of
the conditional test?  And then the motivating problem, or at least
what I have seen as the motivating problem, is the dual use of the
result of the regexp's application.

The elephant seems very like a pillar on this side...  :-)


From exarkun at meson.dyndns.org  Sun Nov 24 14:40:29 2002
From: exarkun at meson.dyndns.org (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:40:29 -0500
Subject: using del() to 'unimport'
In-Reply-To: <918bc22f.0211240425.68b8c282@posting.google.com>
References: <918bc22f.0211240425.68b8c282@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021124194029.GA19539@meson.dyndns.org>

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 04:25:28AM -0800, Donnal Walter wrote:
> 
> So my question is this: Is it an acceptable Python idiom to use del()
> at the end of a module to remove previously imported names from the
> global namespace as shown below? Is there a better alternative?
> 

  It's fine.  Note that 'del' is a keyword, and makes up part of a
statement, not a function (and part of an expression).

del Useful, Mixin1

  works just as well.

  Jp

 --
 2:08am up 22 days, 13:02, 6 users, load average: 0.08, 0.10, 0.09
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From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 13 16:09:49 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:09:49 -0600
Subject: Help with searching a list
In-Reply-To: <slrnat5rej.fj.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> (Wojtek Walczak's
 message of "Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:35:59 +0000 (UTC)")
References: <8d3e714e.0211111913.2e0964c3@posting.google.com>
	<m2k7jissvt.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<slrnat5rej.fj.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <m2y97xmb1e.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Wojtek" == Wojtek Walczak <gminick at hacker.pl> writes:

    Wojtek> So, looks fine, but, is there any way of declaring 'b'
    Wojtek> list within flatten function?  

Probably the best way is to use a generator, as in the cookbook example.  

One problem with your version is that it restricts the input sequences
to be lists.  For example, it fails on

a=[(1,[2,[3,[4,[5,[6,7]]]]]),[8,9], 10]
print flatten(a)
[(1, [2, [3, [4, [5, [6, 7]]]]]), 8, 9, 10]

That is why the cookbook example does the is_string_like and iterable
song and dance, to allow the recipe to work on any (including user
defined) iterable sequences.

You can read up on generators at
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0255.html.

Cheers,
John Hunter



From maurice.ulis at wanadoo.fr  Sun Nov 24 06:32:10 2002
From: maurice.ulis at wanadoo.fr (ulis)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 03:32:10 -0800
Subject: mass-widget
Message-ID: <29de415e.0211240332.312f99a8@posting.google.com>

If youre interested with mass-widgets (handling from 1000 to
1,000,000+ items) you can be interested by the page I wrote on this
subject: http://mini.net/tcl/4547

ulis


From paul.rudin at ntlworld.com  Tue Nov 12 02:31:57 2002
From: paul.rudin at ntlworld.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 07:31:57 +0000
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <ut0b0oolk66sfb@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m3bs4vmefm.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

>>>>> "John" == John Roth <johnroth at ameritech.net> writes:


 John> The 'and' 'or' hack is the cannonical way of doing this. It
 John> short circuits properly, and it returns the value of the
 John> expression that was evaluated.

But it doesn't always short circuit properly, does it?  x and y or z,
will evaluate both of y and z in some circumstances. 


From xucs007 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  5 19:23:21 2002
From: xucs007 at yahoo.com (Xu, C.S.)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 16:23:21 -0800
Subject: how to use smtp starttls() encryption?
References: <8f41cfd.0210101719.ad47c7@posting.google.com> <m31y6vl1p0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <8f41cfd.0210162236.3e5c970a@posting.google.com> <mailman.1034855185.30941.python-list@python.org> <8f41cfd.0210211030.33365530@posting.google.com> <mailman.1035237156.20658.python-list@python.org> <8f41cfd.0210312325.7ab7969f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036139642.15906.python-list@python.org> <8f41cfd.0211011737.383e2c2@posting.google.com> <slrnasai98.nq.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <8f41cfd.0211051623.1d024e29@posting.google.com>

Gerhard,

> 'Sending out' is configured differently than receiving mail. Note that
> in my example, I sent mail to your domain, using your smtp server,
> which is thus already the 'final destination'.
> 
> No relaying involved here. The main point of SMTP auth is to prevent
> unauthorized relaying, and therefore you require it only for mail to
> domains other than yours.
> 

I did notice that, so I tried
	s.sendmail('testpythonsmtp at offleasecomputer.net',
'somebody at hotmail.com', 'test') 
It also works. This did include relaying, right? My question
is, what if other people run the same script on their computer,
the people don't know the password to my email account. Can
they still send out emails? Looks possible, because the script
didn't send out password at all. Then what's the point to use
TLS to prevent spamming?

Another questions is, will starttls() tackle with those servers
with SSL encryptions? To my knowledge, TLS is the next generation
of SSL.

Even the recentest doc on python.org doesn't have any explanation
on starttls() yet, :-(

Regards,

Xu

> For interoperability with the rest of the world, you cannot even do
> otherwise, because then you could receive no more mail.
> 
> > What the hell s.starttls() is doing? There just no slightest clue
> > in python lib reference.
> 
> There is. Be sure to read in the Python 2.2.x docs, as this feature
> didn't exist in earlier versions.
> 
> -- Gerhard


From mike at bindkey.com  Tue Nov 19 15:39:13 2002
From: mike at bindkey.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:39:13 -0800
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <are7ct$g3a$1@main.gmane.org>

> 4.  When I have undefined symbols in my shared extension module, I get
> an 'ImportError: /.../_ctypes.so: undefined symbol: blabla' when the
> module is loaded. Is this normal? Why doesn't the linker complain?

That is perfectly normal because you use 'shared extension module' which is
an analog of DLL in Windows world.
So only when you try to load it, loader tries to resolve all undefined
symbols.

Mike







From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov 27 16:42:54 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:42:54 -0500
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org> <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3DE44D27.3030904@something.invalid> <6GH59kKkXIpD092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1038382477.9003.python-list@python.org> <6q4ra3nwlq.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <as2v96$p28$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <abqcnSLK06D4oXigXTWcpg@comcast.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message news:as2v96$p28>
Nobody(?) seems to have noticed the version I posted the other day:

I did, and saved it.  Was one of many interesting things you have
posted recently.

tjr




From mwh at python.net  Fri Nov  8 10:41:07 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:41:07 GMT
Subject: Ethics in abstract disciplines (was: Making a better textbook (was  Re: The Deitel book))
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f@posting.google.com> <815e8a38.0211071038.208c7577@posting.google.com> <slrnasle4n.7kt.charles@homer.pentek.org> <usnhbbotggus7c@corp.supernews.com> <3DCBD7DE.E132BD77@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <7h3smycxeau.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:

> These days, is there such a thing as a mathematics course that doesn't
> involve extensive exposure to Computer Science?

Yes, the one I did at Cambridge (UK) had very little CS content (there
were computer projects in the second and third years but you could
ignore them if you chose to -- I didn't, but I know people who did).
I think I could have attended three hours of lectures on how to
program in Pascal (I *did* ignore those -- my projects were a bizarre
melange of Python, Haskell and Common Lisp tied together by bash
scripts).

I graduated in 2000; I don't think much has changed since ('cept it
might be C and not Pascal now).

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  You can lead an idiot to knowledge but you cannot make him 
  think.  You can, however, rectally insert the information, 
  printed on stone tablets, using a sharpened poker.        -- Nicolai
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html


From mstenner at phy.duke.edu  Thu Nov 14 09:50:38 2002
From: mstenner at phy.duke.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:50:38 -0500
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A744@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>; from tdelaney@avaya.com on Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 05:20:40PM +1100
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A744@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <20021114095038.A14195@phy.duke.edu>

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 05:20:40PM +1100, Delaney, Timothy wrote:
> > From: arivu at qmaxtest.com [mailto:arivu at qmaxtest.com]
> > Is Inline Functions available in python?
> 
> No.
> 
> I assume you're coming from C++. In that case, I suggest you take a good
> hard look at why you want to write inline functions/methods anyway. If
> you're doing it for performance reasons, your compiler is almost certainly
> going to be better at deciding what to inline, and has the option to do so
> unless you explicitly tell it not to. If you're doing for any other reason
> (such as putting code in header files) I strongly advise against it.
> 
> Inline was developed when computers were slower and compilers were more
> stupid. These days I see no need to inline whatsoever.

OK, I'm sincerely curious here and not trying to be argumentative.  I
present the following example.  I admit that it's a bit extreme, but
still:

==============================================================
#!/usr/bin/python2

N = 10000

def times_two(x):
    return 2 * x

def via_function():
    for i in range(N):
        y = times_two(i)

def inline():
    for i in range(N):
        y = 2 * i

def run():
    inline()
    via_function()

import profile
profile.run('run()')
==============================================================

with the following results:
   ncalls  tottime  percall  cumtime  percall
filename:lineno(function)
        1    0.000    0.000    0.220    0.220 <string>:1(?)
        0    0.000             0.000          profile:0(profiler)
        1    0.020    0.020    0.240    0.240 profile:0(run())
        1    0.010    0.010    0.010    0.010 py-inline.py:12(inline)
        1    0.000    0.000    0.220    0.220 py-inline.py:16(run)
    10000    0.050    0.000    0.050    0.000 py-inline.py:5(times_two)
        1    0.160    0.160    0.210    0.210 py-inline.py:8(via_function)

There's a resolution issue here, sometimes inline takes 0.020 rather
than 0.010, but conservatively, the "inline" version is 10 times
faster.  Now, how much of a problem this is in real live programs is
debatable.  I've often wished for an inline function for reasons that
are not too far from this.

					-Michael

-- 
  Michael Stenner                       Office Phone: 919-660-2513
  Duke University, Dept. of Physics       mstenner at phy.duke.edu
  Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305



From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 20 17:23:15 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:23:15 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <areli6$ris$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnatlo5h.r3b.grante@localhost.localdomain> <arg8nn$kr2$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddba9d6$0$4464$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrnato32g.dip.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> 
> I've seen plenty of apps that assume it doesn't wait all the
> time.  If I had a C compiler and knew how to write a simple
> console app for Win32, it would be easy enough to figure out
> how it really does work.  The Win32 guys I work with directly
> all write device drivers and none of them know how the
> user-land API works.

Google for "lcc-win32"; it's a complete IDE for Windows C/C++
development. It should be enough to let you produce some kind of simple
console app, at the very least.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Nov  8 07:11:43 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 13:11:43 +0100
Subject: string.strip
References: <mailman.1036744990.32317.python-list@python.org> <Xns92C05F715368Bduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <j44rasz2f4.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> writes:

> There seems to be a mistake in the documentation for the string
> module.

Actually, the documentation is correct, and the code is wrong; this
will be fixed in Python 2.2.3 (and 2.3).

Regards,
Martin



From member at dbforums.com  Sun Nov 10 19:05:38 2002
From: member at dbforums.com (Tetsuo)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:05:38 +0000
Subject: Web based interface
References: <2027692.1036809220@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <2031342.1036973138@dbforums.com>

Well, what do you know. Apache finally works. Turned out it failed not
despite IIS working fine, but because of it. Two services on one port.

Thanks for everything.

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com


From edream at tds.net  Tue Nov 26 21:07:04 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 02:07:04 GMT
Subject: memory leaks in Tkinter
References: <mailman.1038350849.22849.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cNVE9.30055$Hs2.4137174@kent.svc.tds.net>

> This wasn't intended as a jibe at Leo. The memory leakage really does bug
> me, and I think it's a programming error, not an underlying attribute or
> flaw.

Not to worry.  I welcome bug reports.  However, you have the best chance of
getting my attention by reporting them on Leo's SF site.  I just stumbled on
this thread because I've been looking into leaks myself recently, and I have
been wondering how to separate "real" leaks from data associated with undo.

> As we've discussed before, Leo chews up large chunks of memory when
outlines
> are expanded/collapsed, and even when the same sections of the outline are
> expanded/collapsed, the memory usage grows by significant amounts. I don't
> see how this relates to undo since there's no change in the text.

I don't remember this as a bug report.  Probably just my memory :-)  Anyway,
it's now on Leo's bug list.  I know Idle has a comment in its tree code
about leaking bindings, and Leo uses similar code.  I'm not sure what can be
done about it; I've looked at this code several times and inspiration never
seems to strike.

Leo 3.9 uses only about 5% of the memory previously used for undoing text
operations.  I was thinking that text undo was the only significant memory
hog; apparently I was wrong.  Thanks again for the bug report.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------




From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Thu Nov 21 00:41:34 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:41:34 +1300
Subject: Pythoncal, anyone? (My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255))
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org> <PoWcnQjwr8ECy06gXTWc3A@comcast.com> <3DD84FDA.3010708@something.invalid> <pan.2002.11.18.23.52.25.376521@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <3DDC720E.4070206@something.invalid>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:

> Still, don't might be worth adding none the less... 
> 
> don't try:
>     f = file("something", "w")
> except exceptions.DidntTryNonError:
>     pass


And of course it will be interesting deciding on
the semantics of

   def f():
     don't pass

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 17 18:05:07 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:05:07 -0700
Subject: popkey() method for dictionaries?
References: <ar7i50$3ib$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <f9068f8e.0211170458.541bfeba@posting.google.com> <ar8rge$rer$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1037569703.8212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar97b6$514$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Neil Schemenauer wrote:

> It seems like an oversight.  Here's the original patch:
> 
>   http://sf.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=305470&func=detail&aid=539949
> 
> Feel free to file a bug.  Cheers,

Just filed:

[ 639806 ] Optional argument for dict.pop() method

at:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=639806&group_id=5470&atid=105470

Sorry but I just saw that my proof-of-concept code in python got squashed by 
SF. I didn't know that SF removed all leading whitespace, hence destroying 
indentation. Here it is again for reference:

#----------------------------------------------------------------------------
class NotGiven: pass

def popkey(dct,key,default=NotGiven):
    """Return dct[key] and delete dct[key]. dct is modified in-place.

    If default is given, return it if dct[key] doesn't exist, otherwise raise
    KeyError.  """

    try:
        val = dct[key]
    except KeyError:
        if default is NotGiven:
            raise
        else:
            return default
    else:
        del dct[key]
        return val
#----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cheers,

f.


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Tue Nov 12 00:29:07 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:29:07 +1300
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <3DCD8571.6CACEA04@alcyone.com> <ud6pe48gl.fsf@online.no> <aqkaeq$7de$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3DCF2127.8080602@something.invalid> <3DCF8787.9000607@web.de>
Message-ID: <3DD091A3.8070608@something.invalid>

Pascal Costanza wrote:

> Greg Ewing wrote:
>> Python still goes one better, because (for user-defined
>> methods at least) you can supply arguments by keyword even
>> if they *haven't* been declared that way!
> 
> No problem.
> 
> (defun paint (&key on at &allow-other-keys)
>    ...)


No, I was talking about the way you can do

   def f(x, y):
      ...

and call it as

   f(y = 42, x = 17)

In other words, you don't have to know when you write
the function that you're going to want to call it with
keywords later -- you just do it.

I use this a lot when a function has one or more arguments
that are booleans. I find it a lot more readable to
always pass them using keywords.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Nov 12 22:44:44 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:44:44 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <001701c28ac7$014b1ce0$21795418@dell1700>

> I'd love to "get" why some form of assignment on the fly is so evil
that
> we have to invent hacks to work around its lack over and over again
> (recipie 1.9 in the Cookbook).  The lack interacts especially badly
with 
> a language where indentation is a mandantory part of the control
> structure.  :-(

People make frequent mistakes with inline assignment in other languages
(e.g. C), so it shouldn't be allowed. I don't think that indentation has
anything to do with this.

> So the typical processing loop is conceptually simple in a language
very
> similar to Python:
> 
>   for l in file.readlines():
>     if (m = re1.match(l)):
>       (first, second, ...) = m.groups()
>       process type 1 record ...
>     elif (m = re2.match(l)):
>       ...
>     ...

I'd write that as:

def process_type_1(first, second, ...):
    process type 1 record ...

def process_type_2(first, second, ...):
    process type 2 record ...

processing_rules = [(r'....', process_type_1),
			  (r'....', process_type_2),
                    ...]


compiled_rules = [(exp.compile(), func) for (exp, func) in
processing_rules]

for l in file.readlines():
    for exp, func in compiled_rules:
        match = exp.match(l)
        if match is not None:
             apply(func, m.groups())
             break

Notice that:
- it is very easy to add new record types
- record processing is more modular
- the code is pretty simple
 
Cheers,
Brian




From usenet at imperialviolet.org  Mon Nov 25 07:26:39 2002
From: usenet at imperialviolet.org (Adam Langley)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:26:39 +0000
Subject: setting a socket to multicast
References: <mailman.1038221915.8750.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.25.12.26.38.792181@imperialviolet.org>

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:46:51 +1100, Brad Hards wrote:

> s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
> s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_IP, socket.IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP, socket.inet_aton(addr))
> s.bind(("", port))

> However when I run it, it bombs out:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "udpserver.py", line 8, in ?
>     s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_IP, socket.IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP, 
>                  socket.inet_aton(addr))
> socket.error: (22, 'Invalid argument')

>From the ip(7) manpage:
	IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP: Join  a  multicast  group.  Argument  is  a  struct
              ip_mreqn structure.

I don't think the Python setsockopt function is smart enough to see the
IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP option and build the struct. I suggest you look into
   http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-struct.html
and build a struct ip_mreqn

> I'm completely mystified by this. The man page for setsockopt(2) doesn't
> even mention EINVAL (at least on my system)

It is documented in the ip(7) manpage.

> except that the system call has five arguments and the python call only
> has three

because the first argument (the socket) comes from the object and the last
argument's value (data length) is implicit from the data being passed.




From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov 23 17:49:48 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:49:48 -0800
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <aro7k9$o9u$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3DE0060C.5A387E9D@alcyone.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> How about adding optional keyword args to min and max, so the
> semantics
> would be something like (not very tested ;-):

That seems like a reasonable extension, but then is it really necessary?
Just preprocess the sequence before you send it to min/max; e.g. to
exclude None from the check:

	max(filter(lambda x: x is not None, L))

or

	max([x for x in L if L is not None])

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Said it? yep / Regret it? nope
\__/ Ice Cube
    EmPy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/
 A system for embedding arbitrary Python in template text as markup.


From bdesth at free.fr  Wed Nov  6 17:32:47 2002
From: bdesth at free.fr (Laotseu)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 14:32:47 -0800
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <usffc087vtip40@corp.supernews.com> <aq8g9u$6c7$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4f49d232.0211061432.593d46b@posting.google.com>

Frodo Morris <graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<aq8g9u$6c7$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>...
> Cameron Laird wrote:

(snip some)

> that's what I call the conducting 
> machine: "Apple" because it sends Jobs away, does nothing for a while 
> then gets Jobs back :-) 

lol :-))))

(snip some more)

Laotseu


From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Sat Nov 30 05:23:24 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:23:24 +0100
Subject: Threading problems at program exit
References: <m3hee02arn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <3de8931f$0$75603$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>

Dave Cole wrote:

> The following program demonstrates a problem I am experiencing with
> the threading module.  I have an object (A) which holds a lock on
> another object (B).  When object A is deleted I want it to release any
> lock it may still be holding on object B.
> 
> Everything works fine except when the program terminates.
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> import sys
> import threading
> 
> class Locked:
>     def __init__(self, lock):
>         self._lock = lock
>         self._lock_count = 0
>         self._thread = None
>         self._log = sys.stderr.write
>         self._current_thread = threading.currentThread
>         self.lock()
> 
>     def lock(self):
>         self._log('locked in %s\n' % self._current_thread())
>         self._lock.acquire()
>         self._lock_count += 1
> 
>     def unlock(self):
>         self._log('unlocked in %s\n' % self._current_thread())
>         self._lock_count -= 1
>         self._lock.release()
> 
>     def __del__(self):
>         while self._lock_count:
>             self.unlock()
> 
> obj = Locked(threading.RLock())
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> 
> When I run this program I get the following:
> 
> locked in <_MainThread(MainThread, started)>
> unlocked in <_DummyThread(Dummy-1, started daemon)>
> Exception exceptions.AssertionError: <exceptions.AssertionError instance
> at 0x814fbfc> in <bound method Locked.__del__ of <__main__.Locked instance
> at 0x816e5f4>> ignored
> 
> It looks like interpreter is deleting thread objects before objects
> which hold locks in those threads.  Is there any kosher way I can
> avoid the problem?
> 
> The only way I can think to fix it is a bit non-kosher:
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> import sys
> import threading
> 
> class Locked:
>     def __init__(self, lock):
>         self._lock = lock
>         self._lock_count = 0
>         self._thread = None
>         self._log = sys.stderr.write
>         self._current_thread = threading.currentThread
>         self.lock()
> 
>     def lock(self):
>         self._log('locked in %s\n' % self._current_thread())
>         self._lock.acquire()
>         self._lock_count += 1
> 
>     def unlock(self):
>         self._log('unlocked in %s\n' % self._current_thread())
>         self._lock_count -= 1
>         self._lock.release()
> 
>     def __del__(self):
>         if self._lock_count:
>             count, owner = self._lock._release_save()
>             self._log('owner was %s\n' % owner)
>             owner = self._current_thread()
>             self._log('owner is now %s\n' % owner)
>             self._lock._acquire_restore((count, owner))
>             while self._lock_count:
>                 self.unlock()
> 
> obj = Locked(threading.RLock())
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> 
> This prints the following:
> 
> locked in <_MainThread(MainThread, started)>
> owner was <_MainThread(MainThread, stopped)>
> owner is now <_DummyThread(Dummy-1, started daemon)>
> unlocked in <_DummyThread(Dummy-1, started daemon)>
> 
> The trouble is that it requires the use of private methods of the
> RLock class.
> 
> Is there a better or more kosher way?
> 
> - Dave

You might consider not using the __del__ method at all because 
'it is not guaranteed that __del__() methods are called for objects that 
still exist when the interpreter exits. ' (quoted from the language ref).
Then use:

obj = Locked(threading.RLock())
try:
     # whatever needs to be done with obj
finally:
    obj.unlock()

Regards,
Ype

-- 
email at xs4all.nl


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 14 01:05:59 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:05:59 -0800
Subject: How to comment a block of codes in Python?
References: <mailman.1037249479.4319.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD33D47.B338A887@alcyone.com>

Mindy wrote:

> Hey, this might be easy but I don't figure out myself.
> How to comment a block of codes(including a bunch of
> lines with indentation)? Now, I just use "#" to
> comment every line and it's so clumsy when I want to
> test part of the codes.

You can put the whole thing in an if 0: ... indentation, or use your
text editor to block comment a whole region.  This is the kind of thing
your text editor should be doing for you.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I woke up this morning / You were the first thing on my mind
\__/ India Arie
    The laws list / http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/laws/
 Laws, rules, principles, effects, paradoxes, etc. in physics.


From bulbul at ucla.edu  Tue Nov 26 23:20:46 2002
From: bulbul at ucla.edu (Leston Buell)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:20:46 -0800
Subject: dbhash/bsddb problem, old bsddb version?
In-Reply-To: <3DE435CA.5090800@ucla.edu>
References: <3DE435CA.5090800@ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <3DE4481E.4070206@ucla.edu>

Thanks, Skip! I get the following, even though i'm using the latest 
version of Mandrake (9):

$ db_dump185 address.db > address.txt
   db_dump185: address.db: Invalid argument
$ db_dump address.db > address.txt
   db_dump: address.db: hash version 5 requires a version upgrade
   db_dump: open: address.db: DB_OLDVERSION: Database requires
     a version upgrade

I particularly don't understand "Invalid argument". Any ideas?

Leston
bulbul at ucla.edu

-----------------------

Skip wrote:
 > If you have shell access to your web host, you need to track down the
 > db_dump and db_load programs.  Something like

 >    db_dump address.db > address.txt
 >    db_load address.db.new < address.txt

 > should do the trick, though you will probably have to use
 > db_dump185 instead.

 > If none of this makes any sense or you have no shell access, contact
 > your tech support people.



From gminick at hacker.pl  Sun Nov 24 03:08:20 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 08:08:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrnau1fkj.8a.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:35:23 +1100, Simon Burton napisa?(a):
> amapedlist = [ somefunc(x) for x in alist ]
> But how would we do a filter with list comprehensions?
You can put an 'if' statement after 'alist' list in your example.
E.g: amapedlist = [ somefunc(x) for x in alist if x > 10]

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From frans at haarman.com  Sun Nov  3 16:14:38 2002
From: frans at haarman.com (Frans)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 21:14:38 GMT
Subject: Parsing & question about usages off classes!
References: <docx9.172161$Mf5.8344841@Flipper> <iWcx9.81076$TD1.3676165@news2.tin.it> <0efx9.175905$Mf5.8592441@Flipper> <3dc58868@news.sentex.net>
Message-ID: <2lgx9.177762$Mf5.8693527@Flipper>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Can you explain why you think you want a new list with the name "some"?
> If you can dig down to your real requirements and express them here,
> we can probably show you how to approach the problem in a more
> workable fashion.

Ok. Here we go.

I am very new with python as you have guessed! For school I can choose 
my own projects and earn credits with them so I choose to build 
something in python.

I want to make a program which uses analogs computer output. From the 
output I want to create nice websites with graphics.

Example lines off analogs computer output:

                  R       P       ----   DATE ----------------
D	RP	901	133	2002	09	18
H	RP	6	6	2002	10	26	00
W	RP	3347	662	2002	10	06


D H w being differnt reports. RP meaning Request and Pages. Now I need 
to read all these lines into python and then do stuff to extract the data.

I wanted to put the D lines in the list DAILY. Analogs computer output 
has around 30 or 40 different reports. So using longer names might make 
my code a bit more readable. Which is nice if other people ever decide 
to do something with it :)
So I thought I would do the following:

short=['D','H','W']
long=['DAILY','HOURLY','WEEKLY']

information = string.split(logline,'\t')	

DAILY.append(information)

Giving me a list DAILY. The list DAILY would contain other lists, and 
those lists would containt loglines which started with a D.

After reading all lines from my logfile I would have serveral lists 
which I could then use for futher processing.

Futher processing would be:

* creating HTML for output to browser
* creating gfx to visualize statistics
* whatever I come up with

Ok thats it.

Thanks again :)

Frans










From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Fri Nov  8 06:08:51 2002
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:08:51 +1000 (est)
Subject: slow on HPUX, SunOS, fast on MS Win2K and Linux?
In-Reply-To: <m3r8dxjtjv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0211082101520.40456-100000@tenring.andymac.org>

On 7 Nov 2002, Martin v. Loewis wrote:

> > You could try building 2.3a0 off CVS -- it has VERY substantial
> > optimizations in terms of memory allocation and handling in
> > particular -- or, even with 2.2.2, try to force it to be built to
> > use pymalloc (I have not needed to do it so I'm not sure about the
> > details, but I'd guess it would probably be some --with-what=ever at
> > config), which is an optimized-for-Python memory allocation package.
>
> While that option exists, I would advise against using it: pymalloc
> was significantly improved before enabling it in 2.3.

True, but it does show up the platform malloc() limitations, so enabling
it for debugging the problem at hand is useful.  I tried it on a
Solaris 2.5.1 box (E3k) with 2.2.1 and was surprised at the difference
in performance with certain object creation/deletion scenarios.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From newsfroups at jerf.org  Mon Nov 18 23:52:48 2002
From: newsfroups at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:52:48 GMT
Subject: Pythoncal, anyone? (My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255))
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org> <PoWcnQjwr8ECy06gXTWc3A@comcast.com> <3DD84FDA.3010708@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.18.23.52.25.376521@jerf.org>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:26:34 +1300, Greg Ewing wrote:

> I have an idea: Suppose there were a "don't"
> statement that could be put in front of another
>...
> that would otherwise be required in a statement
> covered by a "don't", leaving just
> 
>   def g():
>     don't yield

That would interact poorly with the other established constructs one would
expect to see in Pythoncal. What the hell does the compiler do with

def stupid():
    don't come from beginning

? You can't call it Pythoncal if it can't "come from".

Still, don't might be worth adding none the less... 

don't try:
    f = file("something", "w")
except exceptions.DidntTryNonError:
    pass

A great way to comment out code that happened to be in a try construct in
the first place.


From yorizz at forpresident.com  Thu Nov  7 11:14:04 2002
From: yorizz at forpresident.com (YorizZ)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:14:04 +0100
Subject: Times and dates
References: <aqe176$r9t$1@reader1.tiscali.nl> <aqe343$9kd$1@news.schlund.de>
Message-ID: <aqe3lq$sqt$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

"Carsten Gaebler" <clpy at snakefarm.org> schreef in bericht
news:aqe343$9kd$1 at news.schlund.de...
> YorizZ wrote:
>
> > I know that i can create a string from a date with strtime(date), but
not
> > the other way around..
>
> strptime() may be your friend if your platform supports it:

Yeah,

I know about that.
Unfortunately i have to deal with windows...

Joris






From mchermside at ingdirect.com  Mon Nov  4 14:13:35 2002
From: mchermside at ingdirect.com (Chermside, Michael)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:13:35 -0500
Subject: Parsing & question about usages off classes!
Message-ID: <902A1E710FEAB740966EC991C3A38A8903C35B04@INGDEXCHANGEC1.ingdirect.com>

> Ok. I am trying a different approach. But I am still having problems.
> 
> I want to create several new list. The name off the new lists will come 
> from another list. That way I can create several lists, depending on the 
> data received from logfiles. Is that possible ?
> 
> Or isnt that a good idea either ? :)

It isn't a good idea. In fact, ANY time that you plan to create a
bunch of different things (be they classes, instances, or WHATEVER)
and store them in variables with different names, you're going
about it wrong.

You see, if you make a bunch of things and store them in the 
variables "foo_1", "foo_2", "foobar", etc, then you'll have to
write code which "magically" knows what variable names to call.
Instead of that, what you want is to create either a list or a
dictionary which contains ALL the values, then the code that you
write can use that dictionary.

Here's an example:

   # What you _think_ you want (**DOES NOT WORK**)
   for i in range(3):
       myFoo + "_" + i = Foo()   # DOES NOT WORK
   print myFoo_0
   print myFoo_1
   print myFoo_2

   # What you _really_ want:
   myListOfFoos = []
   for i in range(3):
       myListOfFoos.append( Foo() )
   for i in range(3):
       print myListOfFoos[ i ]

Or an example which uses a dictionary:

   # What you _think_ you want (**DOES NOT WORK**)
   while more_users_exist():
       u = getNextUser()
       user + "_" + u.name = u.data
   user_Fred.analysize()
   user_Tracy.analysize()
   user_Kim.analysize()


   # What you _really_ want:
   users = {}
   while more_users_exist():
       u = getNextUser()
       users[ u.name ] = u.data

   for name in users:
       users[ name ].analysize()

Really, I assure you... unless you are effectively expanding
Python itself, you will find that you NEVER want a bunch of
specially named variables... you want some sort of data 
structure instead.

In fact, if you DO work on Python itself, you will find that
whenever[1] you DO create a bunch of variables, Python is
really creating a dictionary behind the scenes! Try typing
"locals()" or "globals()" sometime and see what you get,
or take an object you created and type "print x.__dict__".

So even the innards of Python itself follows this dictum.

-- Michael Chermside

[1] - for optimization reasons, there is one exception I
know of... local variables within a function are treated
AS IF they were in a dictionary, but they aren't actually.



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Nov 15 04:30:41 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:30:41 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <mailman.1037224700.11546.python-list@python.org> <m3ptt9p0rw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <ar0cso$iua$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3r8doxkem.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <ar2kl9$1nd$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:07:53 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>
wrote:

>The main reason we want you to log in is so we have some chance of
>giving feedback.  There were too many occasions (bugs in particular)
>where anonymous reporters were asked for more information and failed
>to give it.
>
>Bug reporting and patch submission is a two way process -- knowing who
>the other end is is a great help.

That sounds reasonable but the problem is that as the receiver of a
donation you are not in a good bargaining position. Requiring
identification instead of just asking for it will cause a lot of
information to be filtered out even before its gets a chance to be
evaluated. 

If someone submits a bug fix but you can't reproduce the bug yourself
and the submitter is not reachable anymore you loose nothing but the
time invested in tracking the bug. How much time to invest in a bug
report can be determined by some smart automatized procedure but this
has to be done *after* receiving the bug report, not before.

Regards,
		 Anton.


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Nov 16 22:46:57 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:46:57 -0600
Subject: Python-friendly Web Hosting Wiki
Message-ID: <15831.4401.416952.986070@montanaro.dyndns.org>

A new Wiki page devoted to Python-friendly web hosting services is available
on the Python.org website.  This page replaces the previously static page
which wasn't getting properly updated due to lack of time on someone's part.
If you use or manage a service you feel deserves to be mentioned, click on
over to

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonHosting

and check it out.  There is plenty of online help available for people using
a Wiki for the first time.  If you have feedback or questions, send them
along to webmaster at python.org.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 12 11:42:18 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:42:18 -0700
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
References: <mailman.1037072595.23496.python-list@python.org> <3dd12c2a$0$4491$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <aqrb1b$i5i$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> Do the letters FOAD mean anything to you?

In case our email-marketer-spammer friend is too dense for google (which I'm 
sure would have provided him tons of tools for his noble enterprise), here's 
google's first hit so he can look it up directly:

http://www.valinor.sorcery.net/glossary/FOAD.html

cheers,

f.


From ark at research.att.com  Sat Nov  2 15:25:25 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:25:25 GMT
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <yu99bs5767nu.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Aahz> So I've been having a friendly argument for a long time with a friend of
Aahz> mine who's a real Java booster.  The current iteration was sparked by a
Aahz> discussion of extreme programming, where along the way I repeated what
Aahz> some people here have mentioned about Python being easier to refactor
Aahz> than Java.

Aahz> Anyone wanna help me out here?

http://www.idinews.com/casts.html

explains why Java programs often have to repeat type information in
many places throughout the program.  Which means that when you want to
replace one type by another, for example, you have to make lots of
little changes.

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From brian at sweetapp.com  Thu Nov 28 20:27:37 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:27:37 -0800
Subject: LAN communication under windows
In-Reply-To: <FCEIIOHIDKJHNNJFOJOAAEALCAAA.juanm.casillas@eresmas.com>
Message-ID: <000201c29746$8074ac30$21795418@dell1700>

Juan M. Casillas wrote:
> what about writting the communication layer using xml-rpc?
> it is powerful, easy, and flexible.

It is certainly very easy. But not terribly powerful or flexible.

Cheers,
Brian




From gminick at hacker.pl  Tue Nov 26 15:45:50 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:45:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net> <3DE2FA3F.8010006@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <slrnau84p8.ue.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:36:15 +1300, Greg Ewing napisa?(a):
>> It doesn't have ()s, so it ain't two tuples. Easy enough, da?
> Sorry, it's not that easy. Commas make tuples in Python,
> not parentheses. Try this if you don't believe me:
>    a = 1, 2
>    print a
...or:

>>> def qwe():
...    return 1,2
...
>>> qwe()
(1, 2)
>>> type(qwe())
<type 'tuple'>
>>>

Tuples are videly used. The best description of them is the one from
Dive Into Python ('Introducing tuples') 
             -- <http://diveintopython.org/odbchelper_tuple.html>

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From thomas.heller at ion-tof.com  Tue Nov  5 08:06:55 2002
From: thomas.heller at ion-tof.com (Thomas Heller)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 14:06:55 +0100
Subject: "Universal Gateway"
References: <apkc4c$d5s$2@pith.uoregon.edu> <n0oxjc6f.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Rejw9.22645$jE1.72970@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <1y63gc02.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Y_Nx9.14995$5u4.46256@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <heewyxlc.fsf@ion-tof.com>

> Paul Moore:
> 
> > If so, is there a way to *call* an arbitrary interface?
> > (Actually, I imagine that this should be possible using calldll plus a
> > reasonable amount of arcane pointer arithmetic, but it sounds like it
> > could be a bit messy and error prone...)
> 
>    Looks like my posts that include attachments are no longer propagating.
> 
> Bruce Dodson:
> 
> > I, too, salivated when I first heard about universal gateway.  However, on
> > closer inspection, I found that it is outbound only: while it will allow
> you
> > to _implement_ just about any arbitrary interface in a Python server, it
> > will not allow your Python code to _access_ those custom interfaces as a
> > client.
> 
> "Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> writes:
>    Way back in 1997, I published some very low level code for calling
> arbitrary COM vtable interfaces using calldll on the Pythonwin sig mailing
> list and it is visible at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pythonwin-sig/message/490
>    Unfortunately the yahoo interface flattens the code and calldll has
> changed since then, and ni has gone away :-( , so the code, resurrected
> a bit, is at the end of this post and available from
> http://www.scintilla.org/COMVtable.py
>    You can get copies of calldll and npstruct for Python 2.2 from
> http://www.activestate.com/PPMPackages/PyPPM/2.2+/packages/
> 
>    It is a very ugly way to do COM.

I have an experimental calldll/npstruct enhancement/replacement
module at http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes.html.

With this module available, and an additional com foundation
which is included in it's test directory, Neil's sample
can be written in this way:

------snip------
from ctypes import windll, POINTER, Structure, byref, WinError
from ctypes import c_int

ole32 = windll.ole32

from COM import GUID, IUnknownPointer, IUnknown

GUID_StdPicture = GUID("{00000316-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}")

# prototype for CoCreateInstance
ole32.CoCreateInstance.argtypes = [POINTER(GUID), c_int, c_int,
                                   POINTER(GUID),
                                   POINTER(IUnknownPointer)]

class IOleObject(IUnknown):
    _iid_ = GUID("{00000112-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}")
    _com_methods_ = IUnknown._com_methods_ + \
                    """SetClientSite GetClientSite SetHostNames Close
                    SetMoniker GetMoniker InitFromData
                    GetClipboardData DoVerb EnumVerbs Update
                    IsUpToDate GetUserClassID GetUserType SetExtent
                    GetExtent Advise Unadvise EnumAdvise GetMiscStatus
                    SetColorScheme""".split()

class IOleObjectPointer(IUnknownPointer):
    _interface_ = IOleObject


pobj = IOleObjectPointer()

result = ole32.CoCreateInstance(byref(GUID_StdPicture),
                                0,
                                1, # CLSCTX_INPROC_SERVER
                                byref(pobj._interface_._iid_),
                                byref(pobj)
                                )
if result:
    raise WinError(result)

print "IsUpToDate?", pobj.IsUpToDate()
print "Update", pobj.Update()
------snip------
When executed, this script prints:

IsUpToDate? 0
Update
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 41, in ?
  File "COM.py", line 118, in func
    return call_commethod(self, index, args)
WindowsError: [Errno -2147221493] Object is static; operation not allowed

I didn't advertise my ctypes module, because the documentation is not
yet complete, and I probably don't have the time to support it.

Thomas


From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Nov 19 08:17:04 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:17:04 GMT
Subject: COM interfaces and inheritance
References: <Xns92CB6026FC70Brobjohnrichardcouk@192.168.0.246>
Message-ID: <kRqC9.27602$744.1004200@news1.tin.it>

Rob Sykes wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm having a problem with a (3rd party) IDispatch interface
> 
> The problem can be summarised thus: I have two classes, one
> inheriting from the other.
> 
> class foo():
>     pass
> 
> class bar(foo):
>     self.stuff = 7

Invalid Python on several scores.

 
> I need to create a new bar object but the 3rd party interface gives
> me a method which returns foo objects
> 
> newBar = CreateFoo() # newBar should be a bar but CreateFoo returns
>                      # a foo
> 
> I'm struggling with the upcasting(?) - in Delphi there is
> 
> newBar := CreateFoo() as bar
> 
> What is the Python equivalent ?

you can try newBar.__class__ = bar, but it's quite unlikely that
this what do whatever it is that you're really after.

The "third party dispatch interface" is really returning pointers
to COM interfaces.  What you use in Python are wrappers around
those.  Getting a different interface (assuming the underlying
COM object supports it) is a matter of COM's QueryInterface, but
as long as you're accessing things through dispatch (which, from
Python, you mostly are) that's quite unlikely to matter at all.
Getting a different wrapper you can do in other ways.  The two
things are rather unrelated.

So, unless you give more and more-Pythonic details of what isn't
currently working for you, and how you'd like it to work instead,
it's unlikely that we can be very useful in our suggestions.


Alex



From TOGLIMIcuni at programmazione.it  Sat Nov 16 11:19:56 2002
From: TOGLIMIcuni at programmazione.it (Antonio Cuni)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:19:56 +0000
Subject: property problems
References: <46a101c28bb2$6f2d1420$7635bcc3@blueyonder.net> <1wOA9.85898$MGm1.48783@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <LXOA9.8568$744.290820@news1.tin.it> <eab1ra.0v1.ln@anto.cuni.lan> <zn7B9.17518$Yw.751056@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <d7r5ra.tv3.ln@anto.cuni.lan>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> and in particular that object and type were names of two thingies, now:
>     object.mytype = type
>     type.mybase = object
> 
> where is the "recursion problem"?

perhaps it's because I think at python-level; I imagine 'object' is 
created like this:
    object = type('object', (), { ..... })
and type:
    type = type('type', (object,), { .... })

I can't create 'object' before 'type', but neither 'type' before 
'object', and type's creation is recursive.
I imagine things work because 'object' and 'type' are created at C-level, 
however it seems a "strange circle" to me.

But things work, so I'm happy with python! :-))

ciao Anto
-- 
"Computer science is not about computers any more than astronomy
is about telescopes." -- EW Dijkstra


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Nov 11 22:55:27 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:55:27 -0800
Subject: Newbie response, was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <20021111084619.3410.38803.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021111084619.3410.38803.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18BSBP-0003cq-00@avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Monday 11 November 2002 12:46 am,  Robin Munn wrote:
> Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >?I'm certainly amazed at the tolerance people have for questions that are 
> >?readily answered in a number of on-line tutorials, and in both the Python 
> >?books that I have (Learning Python and the Python Cookbook). In the
> > end, the friendly attitude may be the killer feature.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you think a response like: "That's covered in the
> Python tutorial -- look at [URL]" will strike a newbie as friendly or
> not? I ask because that's the kind of answer I will tend to write when
> I'm in a hurry. Sometimes I will take the time to phrase the answer in
> my own words, but often I won't want to duplicate the work that someone
> else has already done in writing that tutorial. So if you were a newbie
> getting a curt response like that, would you feel it was a brushoff, or
> would you feel like your question had been answered?

I'm a perpetual newbie (because I keep switching domains), so I have
a lot of experience at it. ;-).  This also means I have thick skin compared to
most newbies, but IMHO, the response you describe is basically fine. The
best part is where you actually specify the URL. Generally the newbie's 
problem is that they didn't know where to find the information (and "ask 
google" is frequently inappropriate -- often it's not clear what exactly 
should be searched for).

Another reason people ask on list is social -- they want to get opinions of 
what they're doing, find encouragement, and also to take the temperature of 
the user community. The importance of these human-factors cannot be 
overestimated. The *tone* of the post, not its length, is what matters for 
this aspect (and one ill-timed "RTFM" can drive someone off permanently).

Ultimately every newbie question can be answered by examining:

1) the documentation
2) the source
3) sufficiently clever web searches
4) experimental results with the actual program

However, it make take an inordinate amount of time to do it! How much is a 
newbie's time worth, and how much is your time worth?  No one can answer 
those questions absolutely. I think the Python community has a better 
realization than most, that, especially in a world of free software, newbies 
count. The more people coding, the better the codebase will get.

Professional programmers who are in it for the money, will benefit by making 
their language of choice seem difficult. This causes a barrier to entry, 
creates scarcity, and drives the salaries for those who are *in* up.  You see 
this behavior frequently in the languages of choice for proprietary software 
development (and it's been around in many trades, long before software was 
invented).

But in a free-software development environment, the more people who are 
user/developers of your code, the better your code will get, and the less 
work you will have to do to maintain it (up to a point, anyway).  So, it's to 
your advantage to teach.  Part of Python's heritage is as a teaching 
language, IIRC, so it's not a big surprise that it's a good language to start 
people on, and, also being quite powerful enough to use for real 
applications, it is a very good choice for open-source development, where the 
line between user and developer is always blurred.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From gerald.hein at epost.de  Mon Nov 11 00:30:25 2002
From: gerald.hein at epost.de (Gerald Hein)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 06:30:25 +0100
Subject: wxPython and console window
References: <3DCEA524.70100@epost.de> <8Exz9.18903$XO.900300@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DCF4071.7070606@epost.de>

Hi Alex,


> Sure, that's what pythonw.exe is for -- it's like python.exe, but

Great ! It works fine ... thanks a lot !

Gerald





From newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Nov 14 02:50:00 2002
From: newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk (newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:50:00 -0000
Subject: property problems
Message-ID: <46a101c28bb2$6f2d1420$7635bcc3@blueyonder.net>

Mike wrote :

>Okay, there's a number of things going on here:
>
>    * properties only work (properly) with new-style classes, new-style
>     classes derive from other new-style classes, normally "object".
>      Your class GlobalVars is an old-style class.  Derive from object
>     to prevent problems which _will_ come up later on.

What defines my class as an old-style class? How would I turn it into a new class?

>   * you are accessing a property which stores a list as if it was the
>     setter method of that property.  You want to do:
>
>        gv.stats =
>        [['Height',self.height],['Build',self.build],['Strength',str]]
>

Doh!. I used to gv.set_stats([['Height',self.height],['Build',self.build],['Strength',str]]) until
I saw something about the property statement, and forgot to change the call line.

>    * gv.stats( ... ) is actually accessing the property value, which is
>      currently a list object, and then trying to call it as if it were
>      a function/method/callable object (it isn't one).

Took a while, but I understand what you're saying now.

>
>HTH,
>Mike

>> I wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>  
>> I've got a problem trying to use a property in a class module. The 
>> class module is listed below (it's called globals.py):
>>  
>> class GlobalVars:
>>  
>>     def __init__(self):
>>         self.l_stats = []
>>         return
>>  
>>     def set_stats(self,val):
>>         self.l_stats = val[:]
>>         return
>>  
>>     def get_stats(self):
>>         return self.l_stats
>>  
>>     stats = property(get_stats, set_stats)
>> gv = GlobalVars()
>>  
>> I've got a further module which does the following:
>>  
>> from globals import gv
>> gv.stats([['Height',self.height],['Build',self.build],['Strength',str]])

[ error snipped ]

Thanks Mike,

Newt



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Nov 19 04:31:03 2002
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:31:03 GMT
Subject: yield: implementation details and other technica
References: <sbejtu49jq3r9csj4d2lip4hpmd7dqq2fr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <rxnC9.9055$Q27.2610@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

"Courageous" <jkraska at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:sbejtu49jq3r9csj4d2lip4hpmd7dqq2fr at 4ax.com...
>
> I have a technical problem for which grabbing the context of a generator
> and *throwing* it up the stack would be preferable to the current
implementation.
> In the past, I've used a continuation.current() command from stackless
python,
> however I am possibly looking for an alternative. What I want is a giant
coroutine
> between a bunch of objects and a master scheduler that I control. It's not
> desireable to have our users use *yield*. For one, certain high level
methods
> are called that imply a yield in a higher context.
>
> Here's what I have:
>
> scheduler -> user code -> special code -> context yield
>
> What are my choices?

Joe, try looking at:
http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_b7.txt
The article shows how to use generators with a master scheduler.  His
example shows how to implement co-routines, but it is general purpose.

The gist of the appoach is that each process gets initiated through the
master scheduler which is then responsible for making the g.next() calls
when appropriate.  Whenever the generator yields, it returns control back to
the scheduler and freezes its current state.  Used this way, the scheduler
has the ability to resume any process, in effect deciding the current
continuation.

The only wrinkle is that sharing data is a bear.  There is the global
variable approach which works fine as long as you have only a few simple,
non-reentrant routines.  There is a heavy weight approach using Queue.  And
there is a hackish looking, but workable idea in the article to have the
scheduler track and move data through a global "load" variable.  There is a
PEP to help ease the data sharing difficulties:
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0288.html

Another alternative that comes to mind is using threads, but that may not be
possible or appropriate for your application.  Also, it might not be worth
the debugging headaches.


Raymond Hettinger








From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Mon Nov 25 07:52:22 2002
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:52:22 +0100
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <3DE2171A.2000200@zuken.de>
Message-ID: <3DE21D06.24AB4E3D@jandecaluwe.com>

"Jan D. Wegner" wrote:
> 
> Jan Decaluwe schrieb:
> > Hi:
> >
> > I'm confused by the following behavior of new-style classes
> > and operators:
> >
> >     class MyInt(object):
> 
> try:  classMyInt(int):
> 
> or MyInt isn't considered int(eger)
> 

I am not trying to subclass integers - this is
just a small example for convenience.

The point is that I think that if __add__ works,
then '+' should do the same. 

Regards, Jan

--
Jan Decaluwe
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com


From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Wed Nov 27 04:49:02 2002
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:49:02 +0100
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org> <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3DE44D27.3030904@something.invalid> <6GH59kKkXIpD092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1038382477.9003.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3de4953d$0$71699$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

"Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters" <mertz at gnosis.cx>:
> ||And it doesn't replace reduce at all -- we've yet to see a construct
> ||proposed to do that (aside from writing it out as an explicit loop).
> 
> Actually... here's an... ummm... "improved" version:
> 
> reduce = lambda func, seq, init=None:\
>          [(l.append(func(l[i],seq[i])),l[-1])
>                          for l in [[init or seq[0]]]
>                          for i in range(len(seq))][-1][1]
> 
> Yours, Lulu...

Needs more "improvement" ;-)

>>> reduce(operator.add, [1,2,3])
6
>>> lulu_reduce(operator.add, [1,2,3])
7

>>>def yieldall(seq):
>>>    for x in seq: yield x
>>> reduce(operator.add, yieldall([1,2,3]))
6
>>>lulu_reduce(operator.add, yieldall([1,2,3]))
TypeError: unsubscriptable object

- Anders




From dnew at san.rr.com  Mon Nov 11 13:29:14 2002
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:29:14 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DCFF6FB.40426F8E@san.rr.com>

Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> In all cases that I can think of, your dynamic code is essentially a
> string which gets eval()ed (with a language-dependent eval).  The
> solution is to make the eval() function/operator compile into a sequence
> of operations along the lines of: Load the compiler for this language,
> (if it's not already loaded), pass that string to the compiler, run the
> generated bytecode.

Seems like an awful lot of overhead for every keystroke, window event,
and async file operation.


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Nov 10 23:54:39 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 22:54:39 -0600
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <3DCE25DD.3266611B@alcyone.com>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
	<ff133276.0211091535.47871cf2@posting.google.com>
	<aqkdoq$db6$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> 
	<200211092320.20597.shalehperry@attbi.com>
	<mailman.1036917434.26935.python-list@python.org> 
	<3DCE25DD.3266611B@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <1036990479.1524.116.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Sun, 2002-11-10 at 03:24, Erik Max Francis wrote
> Your overall point is valid, though.  Logo is actually a Lisp derivative
> that is cleverly disguised.  The turtle graphics portion of the Logo is
> the most widely known feature, but actually within the language it is
> almost an afterthought; Logo (Greek for _word_) was originally designed
> to manipulate English sentences, which is why the list-forming
> construct, for instance, is called SENTENCE.

Until they learned that kids found language parsing to be very boring,
but moving a turtle robot around to be very fun :)

--
Ian Bicking           Colorstudy Web Development
ianb at colorstudy.com   http://www.colorstudy.com
PGP: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0x9B9E28B7
4869 N Talman Ave, Chicago, IL 60625 / (773) 275-7241



From b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u  Thu Nov  7 20:02:18 2002
From: b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u (Ben C)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:02:18 +1100
Subject: Date/Time Conversion
References: <Wxyy9.39$4G5.14670@news.abs.net>
Message-ID: <3dcb0cab@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

you may want to look at the mxDateTime package ... I think it is a more
complete implementation

thanks

Ben C




From kemu at sdf-eu.org  Thu Nov 28 10:18:56 2002
From: kemu at sdf-eu.org (Jonas Geiregat)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:18:56 +0100
Subject: python path
Message-ID: <3de63380$0$86565$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

on linux
how can add new path's to my sys.path var not with append cause when the 
programme closes or interpreter it changes again ?
so save it somewhere ?



From kemu at sdf-eu.org  Thu Nov 28 08:21:19 2002
From: kemu at sdf-eu.org (Jonas Geiregat)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:21:19 +0100
Subject: what does is ?
In-Reply-To: <3de4a6dd$0$86531$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
References: <3de4a6dd$0$86531$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <slrnau9cep.tk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <3DE4B96D.1060808@Linux.ie>
Message-ID: <3de617ed$0$216$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

Padraig Brady wrote:

> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>
> > Jonas Geiregat  wrote:
> >
> >> I saw something
> >> import string
> >> string._StringType is str
> >> what does this specially that IS
> >
> >
> > The "is" operator compares object *identity*, rather than equality,
> > which the
> > "==" operator does.
>
>
> Well why does the following happen on 2.2?
> Is Python being clever about merging variables?
>
> s1="123"
> s2=s1[:]
> s1 is s2 #true?
>

 >>> s1 = "123"
 >>> s2=s1[:]
 >>> s1 is s2
1
 >>> id(s1)
135399728
 >>> id(s2)
135399728

they got the same identity



From whrauser at erols.com  Sun Nov 24 11:28:53 2002
From: whrauser at erols.com (walt)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:28:53 -0500
Subject: Regular expression question
References: <9a5f3d1c.0211231857.78125e43@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038109173.3313.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE0FE45.EA9B768E@erols.com>

One small change:



jepler at unpythonic.net wrote:

> You're doing a number of "unpythonic" things in this code.  It's best to
> learn to speak Python like a native, to get beyond building up a "phrasebook"
> to translate Perl statements into Python statements.
>
> The biggest "unpythonic" thing is referring to an arbitrary global
> variable by its name at runtime.  This is very bad, since it lets a
> user refer to any function.  Besides that, you'll probably encapsulate
> the Python version in a module (since it's longer than a line or two),
> but the Python "globals()" returns the globals of the current module,
> not the calling module.
>
> Anyway, here's an attempt at a Pythonic version of the perl code you
> posted.  Yes, it's longer than the Perl version.  To use it, you'd write
>
>         def f(s): return s.upper()
>         def g(s): return s.title()
>         function_map = {'f': f, 'g': g}
>         print substitute_template("The lessons are: '%%f%%' and '%%g%%'",
>                                   function_map, "python is not perl")
>         # Test out error handling
>         print substitute_template("At the tone, time time is 10PM: %%z%%",
>                                   function_map,    "")
>
> (The third argument corresponds to $variable in your example)
>
> Here's the code to implement the 'substitute_template' function:
>         import re
>
> # Since python wouldn't just refer to a global 'variable', a Subfunc
> # class records the desired argument and the function map for later use.
> # You can call a Subfunc instance just like it was a plain function
>         class Subfunc:
>             def __init__(self, function_map, arg):
>                 self.function_map = function_map
>                 self.arg = arg
>
>             def __call__(self, s):
>                 fname = s.group(1).lower()
> # Error handling should probably be more sophisticated.
> # But hell, it's better than terminating the whole program...
>                 try:
>                     f = function_map[s]
>                 except KeyError:
>                     return "*** ERROR: bad substitution %r ***" % fname
>                 return f(self.arg)
>
> # Compile the regular expression, since we expect to be matching it frequently
>         subre = re.compile("%%(.?)%%")
>
> # Here's the function you call.  It creates a Subfunc instance and passes
> # it on to re.sub
>         def substitute_template(template, function_map, arg):
>             return subre.sub(Subfunc(function_map, arg), template)
>
> Enhancing the code to let $variable be an arbitrary parameter list
> is fairly easy.  You'll need to learn about *args (and maybe **kw)
> parameters, and either the f(*args, *kw) calling convention or the
> apply function.
>
> Jeff



From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 14 07:31:43 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:31:43 GMT
Subject: calendar modules
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk> <slrnat4sfj.19g.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <7396d2b2.0211131136.160ee567@posting.google.com> <aquat8$l2q$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <7h3znscxrmx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> I tried. But checking the day of the week I was born
> didn't work. This calendar seems limited to >= 1970-01-01

I seem to remember talk about this, and maybe doing something about it
on python-dev.  IIRC, the end result was that people who need more
serious stuff can get what they want in mxDateTime & that there wasn't
much value in extending calendar.py to a half-assed version of mxDT.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  ZAPHOD: Listen three eyes, don't try to outwierd me, I get stranger
           things than you free with my breakfast cereal.  -- The
           Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 7


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov  5 23:45:51 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 04:45:51 GMT
Subject: ** URGENT ** Obtaining global and local dict's for current   interpreter using C API
References: <mailman.1036536072.25347.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqa6pv$ai5$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:33:21 -0700, quadric at primenet.com wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am new to Python but an experienced C++ programmer familiar with 
>scripting etc..... and
>very excited about Python.  I have successfully embedded/extended it and am 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^

I know that makes it _seem_ "** URGENT **" ... ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Nov 12 07:09:56 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:09:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <bdb5b58f.0211111438.640885d2@posting.google.com> <aqpc4j$cl5$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <6q7kfjau4f.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <Xns92C47A3ACD484duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> wrote in 
news:6q7kfjau4f.fsf at salmakis.intevation.de:
> 
> python -c "a = b = 1L; exec('while 1: print a; a,b=b,a+b')"
> 
> It would be nice to get rid of that exec, too...

You could get rid of the unnecessary parentheses after the exec. And as for 
the whitespace, are you trying to make it readable or something?:

  python -c "a=b=1;exec'while+1:print+a;a,b=b,a+b'"

Who ever said Python programs need whitespace!
 
-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov 16 22:56:23 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:56:23 -0800
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3DD71367.5F77429C@alcyone.com>

Pierre Rouleau wrote:

> What's the most efficient way to merge two lists inside a single one
> with the resulting list having only one instance of each element (ie
> not
> having two elements with the same value)?

Go through both lists, adding each as a key in a dictionary.  Then, when
you're done, retrieve the keys from the dictionary.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I want to know God's thought; the rest are details.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Blackgirl International / http://www.blackgirl.org/
 The Internet resource for black women.


From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Nov  7 13:42:13 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:42:13 -0500
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in
 Python 2.4 and up
In-Reply-To: <aqe9gs$ea4$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHCEBCDOAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Bengt Richter
> How about
>
>     BIT31 = 1<<31
>
> and then use BIT31 wherever?

That's currently platform-dependent in exactly the same way as 0x80000000,
will also become platform-independent in Python 2.4, and also generates a
warning in 2.3:

>>> 1 << 31
__main__:1: FutureWarning: x<<y losing bits or changing sign will
            return a long in Python 2.4 and up
-2147483648
>>>




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Nov 16 16:47:53 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:47:53 +0000
Subject: wrapping all class methods
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com>
 <mailman.1037385864.30209.python-list@python.org>
 <pan.2002.11.16.12.39.49.262808.1346@club-internet.fr>
 <7HAfWUAhuj19EwTr@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <ar61rk$gun$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <mPaY0KAJ0r19EwQU@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <ar61rk$gun$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net>
writes
>On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:35:45 +0000, Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> 
>wrote:
>
>>In article <pan.2002.11.16.12.39.49.262808.1346 at club-internet.fr>, Pedro 
>Rodriguez <pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr> writes
>>
>>This might be true for a proper program, but in this context
>>I don't know which exceptions are being silently ignored further
>>up the chain. So this was an attempt at a quick and dirty diagnostic
>> to discover which exceptions were being raised in the backend and
>
>Just wondering if you had used
        http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/debugger-
hooks.html#debugger-hooks
..... no I hadn't used that, but then I don't want a trace I want to
discover which tracebacks are being detected and trapped.
>Regards,
>Bengt Richter

-- 
Robin Becker


From freddie at madcowdisease.org  Fri Nov 29 08:45:17 2002
From: freddie at madcowdisease.org (Freddie)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:45:17 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1038570941.14619.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1038570941.14619.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <NbKF9.28302$hg1.78276@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Alfredo P. Ricafort wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm quite new to Python.  So far I find it to be easy to learn and
> simple to program.  However, one thing that I missed, especially someone
> coming from C language, is 'struct'. It seems that when you define a
> data structure in the form of a List, Tuple, or Dict., there is no way
> to give names to each element.
>
> For example:
>
> In C:
>    struct Customer {
>           char * Name;
>           char * Address;
>           char * TelNo;
>    } Customer[];
>
>    printf("Customer Name is %s\n",Customer[i].Name);
>
>
> In Python:
>    Customer=[ [Name,Addres,TelNo], [Name,Address,TelNo],.....]
>
>    print "Customer Name is %" Customer[i][0]
>
> Now my problem is that when the structure of the record change, your
> index has to change also. So in the example above, when the 'Name'
> element is moved(say as the 3rd element - Customer[i][2]), then you have
> to look all over your code and change accordingly.
>
> My question now is, how can I assign names to the elements? Or is there
> a better way of doing this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> AL
>
You could use a dictionary, like so:

cust = {}
cust['Name'] = 'Bob'
cust['Address'] = '12 Bob St'
cust['TelNo'] = '555-EAT-BEEF'

or even just:

cust = { 'Name': 'Bob', 'Address': '12 Bob St', 'TelNo': '555-EAT-BEEF' }


If you're really bored, you could make a simple class for it:

class Entry:
     def __init__(self, name, address, telno):
         self.Name = name
         self.Address = address
         self.TelNo = telno

cust = Entry('Bob', '12 Bob St', '555-EAT-BEEF')

Then you can access each part as cust.Name, cust.Address, or cust.TelNo. 
Exciting stuff :)

Freddie



From spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu  Thu Nov 14 09:44:41 2002
From: spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu (Chris Fonnesbeck)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 06:44:41 -0800
Subject: lists changed to tuples unexpectedly!
Message-ID: <c3835e5f.0211140644.18590798@posting.google.com>

A very strange thing is occurring to me in Python 2.2.2; I have a module
that builds a tuple of nested lists like the following:

# All possible action combinations
actions = [(((i,0),),((j,j),)) for i in (0,1,2,3,4) for j in
(0.0,0.1,0.2)]

I then pass this list as an argument to a class within the module, and it
magically becomes a tuple of tuples:

class QOptimizer(ReinforcementLearning.GradientDescentWatkinsQ):
    'Optimization using Q(Lambda) RL algorithm'

    def __init__(self,
                 actions,
                 states,
                 init_state,
                 state_dynamics_function,
                 objective_function,
                 rounding = 0,
                 roundto = 50000,
                 Alpha = 0.1,
                 Epsilon = 0.2):

	print actions

	... etc.

This gives:

[[[   [ 0.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.   0. ]]]
 [[   [ 0.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.1  0.1]]]
 [[   [ 0.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.2  0.2]]]
 [[   [ 1.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.   0. ]]]
 [[   [ 1.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.1  0.1]]]
 [[   [ 1.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.2  0.2]]]
 [[   [ 2.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.   0. ]]]
 [[   [ 2.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.1  0.1]]]
 [[   [ 2.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.2  0.2]]]
 [[   [ 3.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.   0. ]]]
 [[   [ 3.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.1  0.1]]]
 [[   [ 3.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.2  0.2]]]
 [[   [ 4.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.   0. ]]]
 [[   [ 4.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.1  0.1]]]
 [[   [ 4.   0. ]]
  [   [ 0.2  0.2]]]]

Why did I make lists, and get tuples?

TIA,
cjf


From eugene1977 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 26 05:07:40 2002
From: eugene1977 at hotmail.com (eugene kim)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:07:40 +0000
Subject: Python for website size
References: <uu5q5of4f7h879@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <arus0r$qq7$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

command 'du' ?



From bcoon at sequenom.com  Wed Nov 20 20:14:24 2002
From: bcoon at sequenom.com (Bryan Coon)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:14:24 GMT
Subject: PyOpenGL install issues....
References: <mailman.1037839357.11870.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDC3370.8060805@sequenom.com>

Simon Wittber (Maptek) wrote:
> Hi Bryan,
> 
> I too had lots of difficulty installing PyOpenGL on RH8.
> 
> I can't tell exactly what your problem is, however it does look similar
> to the error messages I was getting.
> 
> I solved the problem by installing Numeric, OpenGL, GLUT, then PyOpenGL.
> I have an nvidia card, which came with its own set of OpenGL drivers,
> but did not come with GLUT.
> 
> I then had to change the PyOpenGL configuration file to use -lGL -lGLU
> -lGlut instead of the mesa libs. I suggest you make sure you have all
> the required libs, then try and build PyOpenGL again. 
> 
> Its worth the trouble, PyOpenGL is great!; Esp. when used with pygame
> (SDL).


Thanks for the info Simon!  I too have an nvidia card, so our setups 
should be similar.

But being a complete python newbie, can you tell me more specifically 
what config file to change and how?  I saw in the config dir the 
linux.cfg file, but I am not sure how to change

[GL]
libs=GL:X11:Xext

so that it looks for the non-mesa libs (if that is even the right place 
to change them!).  Just hacking a bit I changed the line to 
'libs=-lGL:X11:Xext' but that didn't change anything... compiling still 
bombed.  At any rate, I think I should have all the required libs now. 
I installed GLUT, and since I have the nvidia card drivers installed, as 
you say I should have the opengl libs installed as well.  I also 
installed Numeric...

Any additional info you can pass on would be great...

Thanks!
Bryan



From b140a67 at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  2 01:04:24 2002
From: b140a67 at hotmail.com (Kevin P. Rice)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 22:04:24 -0800
Subject: A challenge from the Mensa Puzzle Calendar
References: <mailman.1033709406.7590.python-list@python.org> <d1f767c3.0210040915.3e695631@posting.google.com> <7b90a18e.0210291334.3631c9cd@posting.google.com> <wz7kg06q5r.fsf@cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <7b90a18e.0211012204.17427c75@posting.google.com>

Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> wrote in message news:<wz7kg06q5r.fsf at cs.uu.nl>...
> >>>>> b140a67 at hotmail.com (Kevin P. Rice) (KPR) writes:
> 
> KPR> Anything that takes 4 seconds on a GHz machine sounds slow to me...
> KPR> so, just for comparison (fun) I wrote a solution in C++ (see below).
> KPR> On my 1.6 GHz laptop this code runs in 0.007 seconds -- over 500 times
> KPR> faster! The code is a bit ugly for efficiency reasons. Also, I store
> KPR> the results in an array because I found that printing to the screen
> KPR> took nearly four times as long as the program itself! A cleaner,
> KPR> easier to comprehend version ran in about 0.02 seconds.
> 
> if it took you more than 3.993 seconds more to write the C++ version than
> the Python version then your C++ version is too slow :=)

Yes, that's nice to know. But with that logic the Python version is
much too slow also since there's already a working program that does
the same thing (see below), and, it's faster than 4 seconds, too...
Did I mention this was for fun? Thanks for the jab-- I think the point
was that (1) speed is relative, (2) Python is nice, but it's not
universal, and, (3) how many BILLION instructions does it take to boot
Windows, anyway? There's only 128 MB or so of memory to fill up--that
should only take 0.1 seconds, right??!!?

Cryptarithm solver:

DEAN v.2.00 (C source)
http://www.und.edu/org/crypto/crypto/cryptarithm/dean/

DEAN v.1.00 (compiled .exe for MS-DOS):
ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/msdos/educate/dean100.zip

For the Mensa puzzle create a text file with the following:
abc*de=fghij;a=7

Then run DEAN 'file' to get the puzzle solution!


From jtk at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 00:10:17 2002
From: jtk at yahoo.com (Jeff Kowalczyk)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:10:17 -0500
Subject: AttributeError: sendall when using ftplib with Python 2.1.3/Zope 2.5.1
Message-ID: <ar9skq$ht4$2@main.gmane.org>

The ftplib that came with my Zope 2.5.1 win32 is giving an error on socket's sendall
method. Is there anything I'm doing wrong, or is it a bug in this particular version or my
installation? Thanks.

C:\Program Files\Zope>bin\python.exe
Python 2.1.3 (#35, Apr  8 2002, 17:47:50) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from ftplib import FTP
>>> ftp = FTP('localhost')
>>> ftp.login()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Program Files\Zope/bin/lib\ftplib.py", line 317, in login
    resp = self.sendcmd('USER ' + user)
  File "C:\Program Files\Zope/bin/lib\ftplib.py", line 228, in sendcmd
    self.putcmd(cmd)
  File "C:\Program Files\Zope/bin/lib\ftplib.py", line 163, in putcmd
    self.putline(line)
  File "C:\Program Files\Zope/bin/lib\ftplib.py", line 158, in putline
    self.sock.sendall(line)
  File "<string>", line 1, in sendall
AttributeError: sendall
>>>

But it works fine on my Python2.2 on the same machine, in a different dir.
PythonWin 2.2.1 (#34, Apr  9 2002, 19:34:33) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see 'Help/About
PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> from ftplib import FTP
>>> ftp = FTP('localhost')
>>> ftp.login()
'230 Anonymous user logged in.'
>>> ftp.retrlines('LIST')
'226 Transfer complete.'
>>>

What's New in Python 2.1.2 (rc1)?
=================================

- The socket object gained a new method, 'sendall()'. This method
  is guaranteed to send all data - this is not guaranteed by the
  'send()' method. See also SF patch #474307. The standard library
  has been updated to use this method where appropriate.


My _socket.pyd has the following signature:
36.0 KB (36,927 bytes)
Thursday, May 31, 2001, 8:02:06 AM
I'm presuming it is the original that comes with Zope 2.5.1











From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov 27 07:21:06 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:21:06 GMT
Subject: To GC or not to GC?
References: <3DDD4751.9050807@nyc.rr.com> <m3bs4ieizl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3DDD5E90.8070500@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <7h3isyjqkb5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:

> Sorry, I looked at Python years ago and thought I saw /manual/ ref
> counting, but maybe that was just the stuff done by C code (which I
> understand is ineluctable).

Wow, you have been taken in by the propaganda :)

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Need to Know is usually an interesting UK digest of things that
  happened last week or might happen next week. [...] This week,
  nothing happened, and we don't care.
                           -- NTK Now, 2000-12-29, http://www.ntk.net/


From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Mon Nov  4 12:44:52 2002
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:44:52 -0500
Subject: Encoding of String
In-Reply-To: <aq67lr$6fj$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <aq67lr$6fj$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20021104174452.GA26475@hishome.net>

On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 05:40:36PM +0100, Thomas Guettler wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Is there a way to get the encoding of a string?
> 
> Suppose I do:
> 
> mystring="blu"
> ustring=unicode(mystring, "utf-8")
> 
> later I want to know which encoding ustring has:
> ustring.getEcoding() --> "utf-8"
> 
> Is there something like "getEcoding()"?

A unicode object is always assumed to be encoded in the ISO 10646 
character set (also known as just Unicode). The original encoding
is gone when you decode it. If you have to export the data back into 
the unfriendly world of 8 bit legacy you have to choose an encoding 
depending on the limitations of your environment. The appropriate 
encoding may or may not be the same encoding it had when you got it.

	Oren





From claird at lairds.com  Mon Nov  4 11:02:40 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:02:40 -0000
Subject: SSH/SCP
References: <Xns92BC9FE0EDD4Fmhueningzedatfuberli@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <usd6h0f6d8g5b2@corp.supernews.com>

In article <Xns92BC9FE0EDD4Fmhueningzedatfuberli at 130.133.1.4>,
Matthias Huening  <mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I am looking for a SSH/SCP module that will work on Windows (2000/XP)
>and allow me to connect to a Linux server. Suggestions? 
			.
			.
			.
pyssh <URL: http://pyssh.sourceforge.net/ >
and the ssh module (twisted.conch) of Twisted
<URL: http://www.twistedmatrix.com/ >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov 12 10:28:27 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:28:27 -0600
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D5F352@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Will Ganz [mailto:wganz at texoma.net]
> 

I didn't want to participate in this thread, but the main
comment in this note gave me pause.

> :> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find 
> :> fibanicci series in a single line of code.


As for your friend, ask him to cross a "one-liner"
equivalent of a bridge, some shoddy, barely-holding-together
piece of dubious engineering.  Software is the same thing,
and should be raised to the same standards of quality as
any other piece of engineering, but that's just my opinion.


> Perl is like some of the doctor's writing that I try to 
> decipher at the hospital. Great for writing prescriptions
> but invoke divine intervention to read more than a couple
> of sentences. In fact, doctors will ask nurses to interpret
> other doctor's writings to read the progress notes.*


Same thing here in Mexico; the most responsible doctors
I know either write their prescriptions out with a typewriter
or on a computer, or dictate them to their nurse or assistant,
whom invariably has much nicer writing.


> The same with Perl. One liners and anything less than 100
> lines you can do in Perl, but get Python for anything that
> you are going to have to maintain later. After having dealt
> with 15000 line Perl 'programs' with all global variables
> and documented solely by "self documenting variable names"
> (?quick, what is the difference in $filedate, $FileDate, and 
> $Filedate?) Python is quite the relief to use.


The "author" of such a horror should be shot and forgotten,
for inflicting that kind of pain and cost on others.


> * estimated 45,00~>98,000 Americans die annually from 
>   medication errors v.s. 15,980 Americans murdered
>   in the year 2001


And I suppose, everywhere else in the world.

It seems like people, in this case doctors, really don't
understand that something as simple as writing out an
unreadable prescription is as life-threatening as any
disease.  Can this be grounds for a medical-negligence
suite?

-gustavo



From mike at skew.org  Sat Nov 23 04:38:16 2002
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 02:38:16 -0700
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org> <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com> <arksfq$bdp$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi> <arm32g$icu$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3ddf4c89$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:arm32g$icu$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> I don't have a real handy way to duplicate your experiment (not having BSD
on the other box),
> but if it's easy for you, I'd be interested in how fast/slow this mod of
your test runs:
> (change file an url to taste)
>
> =====
> #!/usr/bin/python
> # turlread.py
> [...]

bytes: 4241.5K; time: 9.027s (469 KB/s)

No improvement.




From jkraska at san.rr.com  Fri Nov 22 02:07:32 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:07:32 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <acrhra.634.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <s43ptu4q4q5makdjolml48i9vj7f4ipgr4@4ax.com> <ts4kra.bo3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <ojlrtu0pol6at4leg6k15inrtjm13so7kf@4ax.com>

>2)      the extensions are defined by one person at the beginning of the 
>effort, documented as such, and the other programmers on the effort, or 
>in maintenance later, are NOT permitted to add their own favorite 
>constructs.

I'm sure that your list of ifs isn't the complete set, but let's agree
that the use of macros should generally be confined to areas for which
one fulfills a clear-and-present need. Let's further agree that macros
are often not held to this standard, resulting in the horrific lunacy
that you yourself point out:

>        #define THEN {
>        #define ELSE } else {
>        #define END }

:)

C//



From rmunn at pobox.com  Fri Nov  8 04:21:27 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:21:27 GMT
Subject: Newbie- how to basics
References: <8d3e714e.0211071600.2a98b136@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasn0or.dt7.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 at 00:00 GMT, Tony C <cappy2112 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've gone through much of the documentation included with Python
> 2.2.2, but can find any kind of reference on how to clear the screen
> from a python script, or at the command line.

If you're on Unix look at the ncurses module. I can't give you more
details as I haven't yet examined it myself, but the documentation
should tell you all you need to know.

> 
> Another useful feature would be command line history (up arrow, down
> arrow, etc), like in the Unix shells.

If you have the GNU readline library installed before you compile
Python, this should happen automatically. If it hasn't, re-compile
Python and include it. Or grab ipython as some other people suggested;
it's also very nice.

> Would ssomeone point me to some docs (specific locations) which
> descibe these features ?

Google for ipython; it'll turn up. And the ncurses module is documented
in the standard Python docs.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From owen at nospam.invalid  Thu Nov 14 17:46:48 2002
From: owen at nospam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:46:48 -0800
Subject: geometry problem with Tkinter
References: <aquppv$28g2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <mailman.1037236609.16889.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar1974$1e6e$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.1037236609.16889.python-list at python.org>,
 Chad Netzer <cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov> wrote:

>On Wednesday 13 November 2002 16:11, Russell E. Owen wrote:
>> I've run into a problem displaying a fairly simple geometry;
>> it displays, but goes into an infinite loop trying to grid everything
>> [snip]
>> Here's a very simplified bit of code that demonstrates the problem 
>
>Works fine for me on Debian linux running python 2.2 and Tk 8.3.
>
>What is your setup?

My setup is MacOS X 10.2, Python 2.2.2, aqua Tcl/Tk 8.4.1.

The program I posted definitely shows the bug on my setup.

Thank you very much, all of you who tried it on your own. From your 
results it sounds as if my code is OK, and that it is probably a bug in 
aqua Tk. In this case I was really hoping I'd simply overlooked some 
subtlety of the grid manager.

I'll rewrite the code in Tk (I'm getting better at that :)) and if I can 
reproduce it I'll submit a bug report.

A few side notes, for the curiosity of those who posted:
-  The problem is not a full lockup. The scrollbar shimmies, the CPU 
gets really busy and it continues until one resizes the window (or one 
can avoid the problem by specifying an initial size for the window, 
which is the workaround I'm presently using).
- However, Tkinter does halt while this is going on -- if one tries to 
put additional windows after the one I'm having problems with, the 
Python script never gets there.
- I can make the problem worse (a tighter loop that is much harder to 
break out of) by not gridding the text widget.

Regards,

-- Russell


From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Nov 15 17:36:45 2002
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J Lee)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:36:45 +0100
Subject: timeoutsocket & sendall / Python 2.1
Message-ID: <20021115223645.A7D302FD6D@server4.fastmail.fm>

It seems that Python 2.1 added a sendall method to socket objects.  I
think something like this needs adding to timeoutsocket.py:

    def send(self, data, flags=0):
        sock = self._sock
        if self._blocking:
            r,w,e = select.select([],[sock],[], self._timeout)
            if not w:
                raise Timeout("Send timed out")
        return sock.send(data, flags)
    # end send

+   def sendall(self, data, flags=0):
+       while data:
+           n = self.send(data, flags)
+           data = data[n:]
+   # end sendall

    def recv(self, bufsize, flags=0):
        sock = self._sock


I've never used sockets directly, so apologies if this is broken /
hopelessly naive.

I'm surprised that nobody has bumped into this before, which is
why I'm posting it here -- I have a feeling I must be missing
something.


John



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 13 17:23:15 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 23:23:15 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <mailman.1037224700.11546.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3ptt9p0rw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"David LeBlanc" <whisper at oz.net> writes:

> How could it not be relevent? If more people know xml then know \tex, then
> the number of random people who might be interested in writing python doc is
> apt to be greater if python doc is in xml. 

I think this is an uninformed hypothesis. In all cases where we have
asked people to write documentation, we have offered them to write
them in *any* form they consider appropriate, and that they shoudl not
worry about formatting errors they introduce.

This has worked quite well, and I know of no case where some author
would have contributed documentation if he could have used XML, but
rejected to contribute because it would Latex.

> It seems to me (I could be wrong) that the need for \tex effectively
> bars what is probably the largest group of python users from
> contributing to the doc: MS-Windows users.

I think you are wrong for a number of reasons:

a) the "typical" MS-Windows users is not a contributor to free
   software at all. If he has ever heard of free software, or Python,
   he thinks that this is something made by geeks funded by the
   government (of the respective country he lives in).

b) if that person has ever voiced the notion that he might contribute
   documentation, we have always explained that plain text (without
   any markup) is just as good as anything else. So he could write the
   documentation with MS Word, and use "Save as text"; we would be
   able to process it.

> I think the advantage of pydoc in xml is THE advantage of xml: it's easy to
> slice and dice the document in different ways for different uses. I don't
> know \tex, so I don't know if this is as easily done in that markup.

So what specific, precise uses you need the Python documentation for
which are not covered by the current processing chain (including the
existing conversion to XML?)

> IMO, people don't "know" MS-Word - they push buttons and fill in dialogues.
> Isn't there, or couldn't there be, GUI-based document processors based on
> docbook? 

No, and maybe. FrameMaker 7 is close, but that is a geek application
as well.

> From an economic viewpoint, I think that's likely to be more viable
> then a similar \tex processor...

I edit Python documentation with Emacs, which serves my needs quite
nicely.

> I think the questions should be "How many more people would write python
> documentation if it where easy?"

Easy to answer: Nobody. If you think otherwise, please name one person.

Regards,
Martin


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Thu Nov 21 00:36:10 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:36:10 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <acrhra.634.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Alexander Schmolck fed this fish to the penguins on Wednesday 20 
November 2002 04:40 pm:

> macros would make it feasible to write extremely readable code (even

        Forgive my intrusion but...

        Macros have always seemed to me to be a means of implementing 
work-arounds for what a language lacks in its native definition. 
Granted, the only languages I've been exposed to with macros are the C 
family, and meta-symbol (Xerox Sigma high-end assembler -- out of 
boredom one day I scribbled out the macro definitions to create an 
Intel 8080 absolute assembler in it).

        Macros in LISP may make it possible to write "extremely readable code" 
-- but what level of LISP expertise is required to write those macros?

        If you have to supply the macros ahead of time, the users aren't 
learning LISP, they are learning "MacroExtendedLISP"...

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 22 07:01:59 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 04:01:59 -0800
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org> <3DDB3373.2578CEC0@alcyone.com> <BaGcnQynO5m2VEagXTWc3Q@comcast.com> <3DDC1874.F72E2B35@alcyone.com> <xQWdnY8p3JLag0CgXTWcog@comcast.com> <3DDD556B.3936A6AE@alcyone.com> <f040c4f9.0211220312.5b5f1696@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DDE1CB7.96BE164@alcyone.com>

Brian McErlean wrote:

> I think this could present problems that are just as bad.  This will
> work OK for simple types like lists, but what about instances,
> classes, or extension types, some of which currently can't be copied,
> many for good reasons (eg Locks).  Just because people can get
> confused by the current behaviour doesn't mean they wouldn't by a
> different one.

I don't doubt that there are some cases, mostly exceptional cases I'd
think, where such a system (namely where the objects are stowed in the
function and then are copied each time they're needed when a default
argument is needed) would have unexpected or undesired behavior.  For
the vast majority of cases where people use default arguments, however,
I think it would suffice:  It seems to satisfy the guideline of least
violations of expectation, is quite efficient (it simply implicitly does
something that the programmer would be doing explicitly anyway), and so
on.

For truly uncopiable objects (one where copy.copy results in an
exception), presumably you'd have some reasonable stack trace that would
lead you to where the problem is.

Again, I am _not_ suggesting that this be implemented.  The current
implementation has the benefit of being extremely simple, and although
it tends to always cause confusion, it's well-entrenched and it would be
a downright bad idea to change it now.

I'm just trying to make the point that the current implementation isn't
the only relatively straightforward approach to the solution, and so
isn't a priori the "right" one.

> A better way might be to compile the expression and store off the
> bytecode, to be executed each function invocation if nothing is bound
> to the parameter - sort of an extra, optional, first line to the
> function.

This would be another example of a reasonably straightforward
implementation that would get the desired effect as well.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Physics, as we know it, will be over in six months.
\__/ Max Born (1928)
    Esperanto reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/lang/esperanto/
 An Esperanto reference for English speakers.


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 12 22:07:47 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 03:07:47 GMT
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <aqrka3$1emk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <yEY09ks/KL6C089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <aqsfm3$8uk$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:31:14 -0500, mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) wrote:

>In article <aqrka3$1emk$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>,
>"Russell E. Owen" <owen at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> [ ... ]
>>If you are collecting pitfalls, here's my least favorite: "never use a
>>mutable object as a default value". A classic example:
>>
>>def badfunc(alist=[]):
>>   ...
>>
>>The default value of alist will not stay [] (an empty list) but instead
>>is affected by whatever you pass in for "alist". Very tricky and
>>unpleasant.
>
>I'm not finding that.  Am I misunderstanding something?  See below ..
>
>        Regards.        Mel.
>
>
>
>Python 2.1.3 (#35, Apr  8 2002, 17:47:50) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
>Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> def f2(dflt=[]):
>...     return dflt
>...
>>>> f2()
>[]
>>>> f2(3)
>3
>>>> f2()
>[]
>>>> f2([1,2])
>[1, 2]
>>>> f2()
>[]
>>>>

You're not using it as a mutable. Suppose it's normally a caller's
list, that the function appends some output to, and and empty list
is supposed to be a convenience default to start a new list. Here
the problem is obvious, but with more code it can be more subtle.

 >>> def f3(x, dflt=[]):
 ...     dflt.append(x)
 ...     return dflt
 ...
 >>> f3('a',['something added:'])
 ['something added:', 'a']
 >>> f3('b',['something added:'])
 ['something added:', 'b']
 >>> f3('c')
 ['c']
 >>> f3('d')
 ['c', 'd']


Regards,
Bengt Richter


From deltapigz at telocity.com  Sun Nov 17 11:18:29 2002
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:18:29 -0500
Subject: Possibly a stupid question regarding Python Classes
Message-ID: <3dd7c140$1_6@nopics.sjc>

Is this even possible:

class Foo:
    def Bar(self):
        print 'Foo'

class Fib(Foo):
    def Bar(self):
        # do the original Foo.Bar()
        # NOTE: w/o needing to instantiate Foo
        # then do:
        print 'Bar'

So in essence I want to override the Bar function, but as well do what it
would if it were instantiated. I know I could instantiate Foo prior to
printing Bar, but was wondering if there was a way to keep it within the
same process.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Adonis




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Nov 15 08:58:01 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 08:58:01 -0500
Subject: Reverse dictionnary
In-Reply-To: <nkz4rajw3ln.fsf@pinel.shfj.cea.fr>
References: <nkz4rajw3ln.fsf@pinel.shfj.cea.fr>
Message-ID: <oqu1ijc4uu.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Julien Barbot]

> Does "reverse dictionnary" exists in python ?  I would like to get a
> value with the key, and to get the key with the value.

As others told you already, this is not always possible.  Values should
be immutable (or more precisely: hashable) and all unique.

But given the proper pre-conditions, list comprehension might be the most
legible way to go.  Still, I wonder if one would not gain some speed by
avoiding Python loops, like this maybe:

    def reverse(dictionary):
        pair = zip(*dictionary.items())
        return dict(zip(pair[1], pair[0]))

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From capsthorne at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Nov  3 13:45:30 2002
From: capsthorne at yahoo.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 18:45:30 +0000
Subject: Book recommendation please
Message-ID: <1036349092.40578.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net>

Hello,

I am starting to learn python. I have been away from programming for a
long time, but 10 years ago I was ok in pascal and forth.

I am working through a couple of the helpful tutorials on the web, but I
want a book.  The classic seems to be Lutz / Asher, but I notice that it
is getting little old and predates current versions of python.  I have
seen Gupta "Making Use of Python" advertised.  It is recent and looks
good.  I would be grateful for any views as to which of the two I should
go for.

Thanks,

Geoff


From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Wed Nov 13 01:08:24 2002
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 22:08:24 -0800
Subject: another cgi / database concern (SQL vs. 'shelve')
References: <mailman.1037124918.32702.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7876a8ea.0211122208.423106e2@posting.google.com>

"Stephen Aichele" <stephen at mochamail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1037124918.32702.python-list at python.org>...

> So the next topic:  For the site I'm building, I'll need to access
> user stats and log user input rather frequently.  The amount of data
> to be stored for any given user is not significant, but there will be
> a lot of accessing of database files.
>
> I have no experience with SQL, but I do have experience using shelve
> for persistent storage of data.  I'd like to get some exposure to
> SQL, but I'm not sure if it is overkill for what I'm doing -
> considerations would be the learning curve of SQL and whether or not
> continual access of and writing to a db file using 'shelve' would be
> wise.

  In the context of learning, overkill is a concept for people with
tight deadlines or deficient hardware.  Are you afflicted by either of
those?  What you'll probably find is that if your application is even
mildly complex, you'll end up using either a relational or an
object-oriented database by the time you really get underway.  The
only question is whether that database system will be a crude, ad hoc
affair that grew like mold on the crust of your application, or a
sturdy foundation stone already sculpted by the relentless sandstorm
of widely varied requirements and years of trial and error.

  Regardless of the specifics of your current project, learning the
relational approach to data modelling (and also learning SQL in the
process) is worth your time.  Even if you eventually come to prefer
object-oriented databases (such as ZODB) or some yet-to-be-discovered
paradigm, exposure to relational data modelling and to SQL will serve
you well, both as a point of reference and because relational
databases are pivotal to a great many existing applications.

  What must be stressed is that SQL itself is just the dominant Query
Language used to define and manipulate data stored according to the
relational model.  I would argue that the hardest aspect of using
relational databases effectively is learning to create robust
relational designs, not learning SQL itself.  In my opinion, that's
not because the relational model is dreadfully esoteric (it isn't),
but because it's so tempting to just dash off a few SQL statements
while subscribing to the popular myth that relational databases are
merely glorified spreadsheets, and call the resulting mess a database
application.

  But don't be put off by my pedantic chatter.  At worst, you'll paint
yourself into a corner a few times before the crucial concepts of
relational modelling emerge from the fog.  Whether you approach it the
awkward way (SQL-->relational model) or the coherent way (relational
model-->SQL), you'll eventually learn a profoundly useful approach to
data manipulation.

  Despite all my yapping about the relational model, I don't know of
an excellent tutorial for it on the web (maybe
http://escher.cs.ucdavis.edu/ecs189f/lecnotes/lect20.htm or
http://www.islandnet.com/~tmc/html/articles/datamodl.htm or
http://www.databasejournal.com/sqletc/article.php/1428511 ).

  As for SQL itself, I think O'Reilly's AboutSQL column is pretty good
(start at the bottom of the page):
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/q/aboutSQL


  As for specific database software, I recommend starting with either:
- Gadfly ( http://gadfly.sourceforge.net/ ) via its native library
- SQLite ( http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/ ) via the PySQLite module (
http://pysqlite.sourceforge.net/ )
- or, if you want to start a little higher on the
complexity/capability curve, Firebird ( http://firebirdsql.org ) via
the KInterbasDB module ( http://kinterbasdb.sourceforge.net/ ), in
combination with the IBOConsole IDE (
http://www.mengoni.it/downloads.html ).

  I recommend against starting with MySQL, not primarily because of
properties intrinsic to the MySQL software itself, but because so many
members of the MySQL community have convinced themselves--and seem
desperate to convince others--that MySQL is the ultimate relational
database, whereas in truth it's critically deficient in some areas,
like a hamburger without the bun, pickles, lettuce, and catsup. 
Gadfly and SQLite aren't designed to be and don't claim to be
heavyweights; their communities won't brand as heretical an honest
appraisal of their limitations.  Due to my personal involvement with
KInterbasDB (a Firebird module), I have a conflict of interest in
critiquing Firebird, but I will say that I regard Firebird as a well
balanced compromise between the vast feature set and complexity of
high-end commercial databases, and entry-level ones such as Gadfly and
SQLite.  Just as Perl 6 is leaning in a Pythonic direction, MySQL is
trying to become what Firebird already is.  I fail to mention
PostgreSQL only because its lack of portability has precluded my
significant involvement with it; SAP DB because I consider it
inappropriate as an introductory learning tool.

  Now, where's that flame-proof suit?  I've dissed Perl and MySQL; why
not Apache and Linux while I'm at it ;)


From s997659 at ee.cuhk.edu.hk  Wed Nov 13 10:38:03 2002
From: s997659 at ee.cuhk.edu.hk (Geiger Ho)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:38:03 +0800
Subject: calendar modules
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk>

Hi all,

  Wondering around the modules, I find that "calendar" does not function
well in MS Windows. When I type "calendar.month(2002,11)", it outputs a
string

'    November 2002\nMo Tu We Th Fr Sa Su\n             1  2  3\n 4  5  6
7  8  9 10\n11 12 13 14 15 16 17\n18 19 20 21 22 23 24\n25 26 27 28 29
30\n'

but rather in proper formating. This seems calendar module is not platform
independent.

Regards,
Geiger






From bfordham at socialistsushi.com  Sun Nov  3 22:12:00 2002
From: bfordham at socialistsushi.com (Bryan L. Fordham)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 22:12:00 -0500
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <3dc52a19.3339913@news.cybermesa.com> <aq3fd3$fv$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1036345624.20066.python-list@python.org> <I7jx9.42003$Lg2.11425036@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3DC5E580.2030808@socialistsushi.com>

Robert Oschler wrote:

>"Bryan L. Fordham" <bfordham at socialistsushi.com> wrote in message
>news:mailman.1036345624.20066.python-list at python.org...
>  
>
>>I've worked at a company (now owned by verisign) for almost 2 years, and
>>all the development produced in my department is in java.  But, to me,
>>it's much quicker for me to hack out quick scripts in python that
>>produce java code than it is to try and do that in java.  I've gotten a
>>few people there to install python, and they all find it much easier to
>>use than java.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Bryan,
>
>Are you saying that you use Python scripts to write Java source code, or
>that you Python scripts to write Java byte code, or that you use Python
>scripts that are run dynamically by Jython?
>  
>
I use python to write java code.

--B





From vm_usenet at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 25 16:27:08 2002
From: vm_usenet at yahoo.com (vm_usenet)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 13:27:08 -0800
Subject: Severe embedding problems - please HELP!!!
Message-ID: <c09aca51.0211251327.5f97df69@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I've posted several questions before about embedding Python - but I
have been encountering severe difficulties lately, as my project moved
on.

First, while attempting to run the known function PyRun_File - I
encountered an access violation in Windows. Further traces showed that
various file-handling functions crash unexpectedly - such as ftell and
the likes. When I tried calling the same functions from my code over
the same FILE*, nothing special happened. I recently saw another guy's
posting concerning the same problem, but it went unanswered. I guess
we're talking some kind of compilation issue here, perhaps a
compilation flag set/unset in the PCBuild?

Second, since none of the PyRun_*File* functions worked, I built a
wrapper around PyRun_String, for simulating running from a file. I
immediately understood that, amazingly, under that function,
carriage-return characters are not recognized by the parser!!!! Does
that sound reasonable to anyone? Is there a way to bypass this?

Third, when I finally stripped my file of \r's, The PyRun_String
function failed, making PyErr_Print claim that "__import__ not found".
What the hell? is there some sort of initialization required here
besides Py_Initialize? (my code imports some modules when it starts).
afterwards, I chopped several imports out of my code, and left it with
mere class declarations and several assignments. Then PyErr_Print told
me that __name__ was not found, although this token never even appears
in my code!!!!!!!!

Please, could someone explain what's going on??? I've seen the
interpreter do the exact same things in its own code!!! why isn't it
working?!? I'm simply going nuts, and I already spent three nights
over this.


I'd really appreciate any help,

vm


From animeshk at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 14 20:28:45 2002
From: animeshk at yahoo.com (animeshk)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 17:28:45 -0800
Subject: getcwd 2.2.1 vs. 2.2.2 and PythonWin
Message-ID: <4cce07d5.0211141728.7364f526@posting.google.com>

A few days ago, I asked about how to find the directory where my
script was running.  Someone posted that I should use getcwd.  Here is
what I noticed:

At work, it all worked fine.  Wing IDE, command line, PythonWin, etc. 
Coool!  At work, I was using the ActiveState Python 2.2.1 on Win2k.

At home, it worked fine with Wing IDE and command line, but getcwd in
PythonWin would return the directory where PythonWin.Exe was sitting. 
The diff?  I was using a "straight" Python 2.2.2 version (with the
wincom extensions installed) under WinXP.

Has anyone else noticed this?


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Fri Nov 29 07:15:40 2002
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:15:40 +0100
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
In-Reply-To: <1038571003.6023.20.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1038571003.6023.20.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20021129131540.37bac054.mikael@isy.liu.se>

Hi Alfredo!

On 29 Nov 2002 19:56:44 +0800
"Alfredo P. Ricafort" <alpot at mylinuxsite.com> wrote:
> I'm quite new to Python.  So far I find it to be easy to learn and
> simple to program.  However, one thing that I missed, especially
> someone coming from C language, is 'struct'. It seems that when you
> define a data structure in the form of a List, Tuple, or Dict., there
> is no way to give names to each element. 
>
> [snip C code]
> 
> Now my problem is that when the structure of the record change, your
> index has to change also. So in the example above, when the 'Name'
> element is moved(say as the 3rd element - Customer[i][2]), then you
> have to look all over your code and change accordingly. 
> 
> My question now is, how can I assign names to the elements? Or is
> there a better way of doing this?

I know close to nothing about C, but based on your description, you
should take a look at dictionaries. Then you can do the following:

    Customer=[ 
        {'Name': name1,'Address': address1,'TelNo': telno1},
        {'Name': name2,'Address': address2,'TelNo': telno2}
        ]

The name of the first customer is then given by

    Customer[0]['Name']

...or you can create your own class if you really want flexibility.

HTH
/Mikael

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From srumbalski at prodigy.net  Wed Nov 20 19:34:45 2002
From: srumbalski at prodigy.net (Steven Rumbalski)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:34:45 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037828015.2000.python-list@python.org> <arh41n$gd$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <FSVC9.4220$at2.596@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>

Carl Banks wrote:

> I'm afraid this is a fact of life on programming newsgroups.  I can
> tell you that this repartee is mild compared to some of the language
> flame wars I've seen (such as flame wars over whether Java has
> "references" or "pointers," or on how to pronounce "Linux").

Oh, those are easy.  Repeat after me: "Java has pointers"  "Lihn-ucks"



From timr at probo.com  Tue Nov 26 02:34:25 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:34:25 -0800
Subject: some questions....
References: <arumtk$pqa$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <sk76uukvis36m9d0vvinnoc8132l34jtma@4ax.com>

eugene kim <eugene1977 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>#!/usr/local/bin/python
>
>wow.. i thought python is easy to learn..
>but there are lot's of corks..
>namespace, scoping rule, exec, eval..
>all confuses me..

It really isn't all that complicated.  You're just playing on the edges.

>class simple:
>    def __init__(self,value):
>        self.value = value
>        if value == 4 :
>            print c ## <--- ok
>            print C ## <--- error

As far as I'm concerned, it is only an accident that the first "print"
statement works.  In fact, I didn't believe it until I tried it.

Variables do not exist until they are created.  Since "c" and "C" are not
defined in the function or the class, you're getting the global value.  In
most cases, globals are to be avoided.

>if __name__ == '__main__':
>    a = 3;
>    b = 4;
>    c = simple(a)

At this point, the variable "C" does not exist.  That's why you get an
error.  What surprises ME is that it was able to find "c".  What that tells
me is that the interpreter creates the object, assigns it to "c", and THEN
calls __init__.  __init__, then, is able to find the global variable "c".

>    d = simple(b)
>    print c
>    print d
>
>    exec "C = simple(a)"
>    print C

You said this was a question about exec, but in this case, your program
isn't even GETTING to the "exec" statement.  You're failing on the first
call to create a "simple" object.

>another question about exec
>aList = ['a', 'b']
>for aString in aList:
>    aString = myClass(aString)  ## <--error

This is not an error as is, although it is CERTAINLY bad style.  Perhaps
you should show us your definition of "myClass" so we can see what is
wrong.

>    exec "aString = myClass(aString)" ## <-- ok

I didn't have any trouble with the non-exec version.  However, in this
particular case, by the time your "exec" runs, "aString" is no longer a
1-character string: it is an instance of myClass, because of the first
statement.  If myClass.__init__ expects an instance of myClass to be passed
in, that's why the first call fails.


>a = 3
>b = a
>
>print eval("b") ## <--- arn't these same?
>print b

Yes, they are the same.

If you are a Python newbie, you are probably worrying about the wrong
things.  I've written a lot of Python application code, and I can count the
number of times I've used "eval" and "exec" on one hand.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 17 19:11:16 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:11:16 -0700
Subject: Get Stdout from external script startet through python
References: <mailman.1037574807.25529.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar9b75$73f$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Pearu Peterson wrote:

> So, any hints how to do that using Python tools and as an ordinary user
> (e.g. ttysnoop requires changes to /etc/inittab but it has other goals..),
> would be appreciated.

What about the PyExpect project?

http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/

I suspect it may work, even if you don't need the 'control' part of it, at 
least it should be able to trap all output in a way which pipes can't (ie. 
with pipes you can't control both stdin and stdout simultaneously).

Cheers,

f.


From carel.fellinger at chello.nl  Fri Nov  8 10:20:12 2002
From: carel.fellinger at chello.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:20:12 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <3DCB2EAF.DEE7D6B6@alcyone.com>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <270c68fe.0211071328.49f8abd@posting.google.com> <3DCB2EAF.DEE7D6B6@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20021108152012.GB2162@mail.felnet>

On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 07:25:35PM -0800, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Alan Green wrote:
> 
> > Is it just me, or does anyone else think it peculiar that someone
> > '@esperanto.org' is championing a unified approach to language?
> 
> Now, now :-).  Esperanto is an auxiliary language, so its intend is to
> be a second language that everyone learns in addition to their primary
> tongue, rather than a replacement for it.

Then, then:)  Some odd twenty years ago some serious money was spent
to prove Esperanto suited to be *the interlingua* for computer based
natural language translation.  Being readable was its main advantage:)


-- 
groetjes, carel




From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Tue Nov 12 05:25:10 2002
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:25:10 GMT
Subject: How to create and interactive, distributable program?
References: <3dcfa0e3.921157@news.jaring.my>
Message-ID: <3dd0d35d.3284859@news.easynews.net>

Hi,
>The program would need to have a GUI. The main characteristics of any
>commercial FEA package is that it has to be mouse drive, i.e. a user
>clicks the rectangle button from a widget and then proceeds to click 4
>points on the drawing window, and the program then draws a rectangle
>using those 4 points. 
>After which, the program would have to calculate the area of the
>rectangle and then proceed to divide the rectangle into many small
>rectangles, which length would be given by the user. In FEA, this
>would be known as meshing.

Whow. That's CAD, meshing and preprocessing, solving (and
postprocessing?). Looks like a huge task to solve in three months.
I'm not quite sure where the main emphasis of your project is. 
Is it GUI programming or is it the numerical part of FEA?

Anyway, wxPython is what you want. The Demofiles that come with
it are extremely helpful and you can use a lot of this code if you
have a basic understanding.

For drawing your rectangle, for meshing and for showing the results
you should have a look at vtk. (www.kitware.com) Although vtk itself
is not easy to use, it has a simple reader function that reads an
ascii file describing your mesh and puts it on the screen. You can
easily pan, zoom, rotate, pick nodes and show your results (e.g.
stresses or strains) as banded or shaded contour plots. 
Verrrrrry Impressive and easy to use if you stick to the basic
functionality.

Making an exe is no problem. Look for py2exe.

marcus


From justin at iago.org  Wed Nov 13 10:28:48 2002
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:28:48 -0500
Subject: Is python a good choice for this task?
References: <pan.2002.11.11.20.29.19.704887.2239@spongebob.corporate.com>
	<aqp58f$8pm$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<ut08vl458fs60d@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.1037124201.17612.python-list@python.org>
	<ut4je48j0lj7cd@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <x7znsdwksv.fsf@ra.iago.org>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

>>why not recommend the "commands" module instead of popen for those uses?

> I claim to observe that Python adepts more rarely recommend commands
> than popen2.  I'll speculate that this is an artifact of commands'
> late appearance in Python's standard distribution (was it 1.5?).

Agreed.  I sometimes forget about its existence.

> *I*'ve never been able to get commands to do anything useful under Windows.

True enough.  However, in most cases where I've seen someone asking
how to get the output of some command inside a Python script, their
program was by its nature not going to be portable.  Thus, if commands
works on their platform, it may be the best choice for the job.

Mind, I do not claim that Python programs in general that use external
processes are not or can not be portable.  The difference is that the
people that were already writing portable code for this purpose didn't
have to ask how to spawn a subprocess.  <wink>

> at some point I need to figure out what my problems with commands on
> NT and W95 are

Sadly, I doubt that these problems are local to you.  From the docs:

"Availability: Unix."

It will generally import successfully on windows, but can not be
counted on to work there.  This is the real answer to my question.

The question was somewhat rhetorical.  I simply think that the
commands module occasionally deserves mention, even if it is not yet
as wonderfully portable as the rest of Python.

All of this said, I can't argue against the ease of use of [exec] and
similar facilities in Tcl.  I don't enjoy Tcl much myself, but that is
certainly one of its strengths.

-Justin

 







From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Thu Nov 21 21:30:52 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:30:52 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <acrhra.634.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <s43ptu4q4q5makdjolml48i9vj7f4ipgr4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ts4kra.bo3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Courageous fed this fish to the penguins on Wednesday 20 November 2002 
11:38 pm:

> 
> A number of "standard constructs" used routinely in LISP are actually
> macros in some standard distributions, such as Franz. One of the
> genuinely useful capabilities of LISP is the ability to define domain-
> specific languages. Although certain negatives do apply, of course.
>
        Which, I'll concede, may be useful /if/

1)      the extensions are for personal use only, and no one else will 
/ever/ have to maintain the code

/or/

2)      the extensions are defined by one person at the beginning of the 
effort, documented as such, and the other programmers on the effort, or 
in maintenance later, are NOT permitted to add their own favorite 
constructs.

        In the environment I come from, just getting used to differences (for 
silly example) between coders using:

        if (cond) {
                ....
        } else {
                ....
        }
vs
        if (cond)
                {
                        ....
                }
        else
                {
                        ....
                }
vs
        if (cond)
        {
                ....
        }
        else
        {
                ....
        }
and

        #define THEN {
        #define ELSE } else {
        #define END }

        if (cond) THEN
                ....
        ELSE
                ....
        END

is bad enough -- at least all of those follow the same /syntax/ of 
<block start> .... <block end>

        If you add the ability to change the language syntax, you no longer 
/have/ the same language. You need to train all maintenance programmers 
in the changes... and then they have to train others in /their/ 
changes, etc.

        [no doubt my last 20 years for a defense contractor glare out]
        [anyone need a software engineer JOAT? Lay-off was September]

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Nov  4 22:41:42 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 04:41:42 +0100
Subject: bug report w\o registering
Message-ID: <aq7eoe$m8u$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Hello All!

Here's a bug report. I don't want to register at SourceForge now
(browser settings etc.). Sorry for the inconvenience.

Anton.

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> import os,popen2
>>> infile,outfile = os.popen2("dir","b",-1)
>>> outfile,infile = popen2.popen2("dir","b",-1)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in ?
    outfile,infile = popen2.popen2("dir","b",-1)
  File "D:\PYTHON22\lib\popen2.py", line 123, in popen2
    w, r = os.popen2(cmd, mode, bufsize)
TypeError: popen2() argument 2 must be string, not int
>>> 



From hst at empolis.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 05:56:59 2002
From: hst at empolis.co.uk (Harvey Thomas)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:56:59 -0000
Subject: shutil module
Message-ID: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB04F437@hendrix.empolisuk.com>

asdfasd asdfasdf  wrote
>hi all
>
>i wanted to copy a file to another directory so i used the shutil module's copy() function. The name of this file will >>change everyday.eg, events-18-Nov-2002.txt and tomorrow will be events-19-Nov-2002.txt
>
>i used:
>import shutil
>import glob
>shutil.copy (glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events*'), r'c:\temp')
>
>i couldn't seem to copy the file to c:\temp..it says
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<pyshell#132>", line 1, in ?
>    shutil.copy(glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events-*'),r'c:\temp')
>  File "C:\Python22\lib\shutil.py", line 61, in copy
>    dst = os.path.join(dst, os.path.basename(src))
>  File "C:\Python22\Lib\ntpath.py", line 190, in basename
>    return split(p)[1]
>  File "C:\Python22\Lib\ntpath.py", line 149, in split
>    while i and p[i-1] not in '/\\':
>TypeError: 'in <string>' requires character as left operand
>
>i checked the output of glob and it says
>>>> glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events-*')
>['c:\\winnt\\temp\\events-18-Nov-2002.txt']
>
>could it be the double slash that is making the fault....??
>
>thanks for anyhelp

The arguments to shutil.copy are strings - the pathnames of the source and destination files. glob.glob, however, returns a list of strings, as you can see above where you have a list containing one string -
['c:\\winnt\\temp\\events-18-Nov-2002.txt'].

So, try (untested)

for src in glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events*'):
    shutil.copy (src, r'c:\temp')

HTH

Harvey

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.



From werner.merkl at fujitsu-siemens.de  Thu Nov 28 05:44:33 2002
From: werner.merkl at fujitsu-siemens.de (Werner Merkl)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:44:33 +0100
Subject: Bug in win32file.FindFilesW ?
Message-ID: <as4s2i$920$1@dackel.pdb.sbs.de>

Hi everyone,


like more of you, I like python and I like -- or better NEED -- to use it
within windows. Some of the functions of module "os" has some
known problems with unicode, used as file name or directory name.
 So I tried to replace it with some windows extention modules.
And most of them work fine. But...

  Is the following behaviour of win32file.FindFileW as expected?

  If not, is it my fault?

  If not so, is it a bug?

  And if it was a bug, where should I send it to?

PythonWin 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see
'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> dir = u'\u03b1\u03b2\u03b3.DIR'
>>> import win32file as f
>>> f.CreateDirectoryW(dir, None)
>>> from os.path import join as j
>>> f.CreateFileW(j(dir,'1'),0,0,None,f.CREATE_NEW,0,None)
<PyHANDLE object at 0x00F8C8E4>
>>> f.CreateFileW(j(dir,'2'),0,0,None,f.CREATE_NEW,0,None)
<PyHANDLE object at 0x00FA4F14>
>>> f.FindFilesW(dir)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)


!!!! BTW: ">>> f.SetCurrentDirectory(dir)" brings also an ERROR!!!!

Thanx in advance


Regards/Mir freundlichen Gr??en
Werner Merkl




From malik_martin at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 27 14:47:47 2002
From: malik_martin at hotmail.com (malik m)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:47:47 GMT
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <mailman.1038414274.6010.python-list@python.org> <slrnauaif6.1gv.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <vs7auu07opjlv8enekpde94kfo241tnr5a@4ax.com>

wow thanks for all the help guys i've learned alot and will be
reading this thread for a while. there's some pretty advanced looking
stuff in here. 

robin munn? you wrote 
>     averagea = milesDriven / gallonsPerTank

Once you've got your program working, you're going to be surprised by
the result of this line! Try it as-is, then put the following line at
the top of your program:

    from __future__ import division

And run it again. Notice the difference? I don't want to go into the
reasons for this right now, as this response is getting quite long
enough already. But the following page may help to explain what is
going
on:

i didnt to import that yet  but i will try even tho i think the
program did what i want it to:)

thanks again guys!!

p.s. does anyone know what the big 2.2.2 updates are? and if you have
idle and pythonwin installed on the same comp do you install the
update to c/python22 folder? if you  use a default dir of course...


From duncan-news at grisby.org  Thu Nov 14 08:32:56 2002
From: duncan-news at grisby.org (Duncan Grisby)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:32:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Tkinter+CORBA+threads, two main-loops. Problems?
References: <V1oA9.7256$Y2.175@news2.bredband.com>
Message-ID: <1037284198.2630@cache1.news.support.nl>

In article <V1oA9.7256$Y2.175 at news2.bredband.com>,
 L Ekman <emil71se at yahoo.com> wrote:

>The problem is that both orbit-python-0.3.1 and Tkinter has
>"main-loops", and can not find a way to implement this in a
>single threaded program.

Tkinter is thread friendly, so you can run its loop in its own thread.
That will make life awkward with the CORBA interactions, though, since
ORBit-Python is not, AFAIK, thread safe.

I'd recommend using a multi-threaded ORB, like omniORBpy or Fnorb,
since then you won't have any problem in this respect. omniORBpy
doesn't even require you to give a thread to it at all -- it's quite
happy if you block your main thread in Tkinter. There are a couple of
demos in the omniORBpy distribution that use Tkinter.

Cheers,

Duncan.

-- 
 -- Duncan Grisby         --
  -- duncan at grisby.org     --
   -- http://www.grisby.org --


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Nov 17 04:21:27 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:21:27 -0800
Subject: popkey() method for dictionaries?
References: <ar7i50$3ib$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <3DD75F97.909E76A1@alcyone.com>

Fernando P?rez wrote:

> It could even be implemented as an extension to the existing popitem()
> method.
> Currently popitem() doesn't take any arguments, so the above 'key'
> argument
> could be made optional.
> 
> What do people think? Good/bad? Useless to most?

Seems like a reasonable extension, but I can't imagine it would come
into all that much use.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I only drink to make other people seem interesting.
\__/ George Jean Nathan
    CSBuddy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/csbuddy/
 A Counter-Strike server log file monitor in Python.


From admin at realwebhost.net  Sun Nov  3 13:20:42 2002
From: admin at realwebhost.net (Admin)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 13:20:42 -0500
Subject: Mailing List Problem
Message-ID: <01b201c28365$b8c8d420$46dea2cd@computer>

We are using cpanel for customers in which, we use your mailing lists.

We have several cleints that are having this problem.
They get a emails stating they have pending requests for authorization when they login to their admin panel and check there are no requests awaiting approval. They get this everytime they send out a email from the mailing list.

Any thoughts on what the problem may be
?

Joey
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From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Mon Nov 18 17:16:35 2002
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:16:35 -0800
Subject: Debugging python with C++ extensions
References: <3DD921E0.2000605@elemtech.com>
Message-ID: <arbopc$h5udr$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>

Karl G. Merkley wrote:

> 
> I am looking using python as a framework for some C++ components.
> However, I am concerned about debugging across the python/C++ interface.
> How do people currently debug python with C++ extensions.  Every C++
> component will have it's own unit test; however, it seems inevitable that
> there will be times when it would be helpful to step from the python
> code into the C++ component.

Here is a technique that I've used:

Put a call to raw_input('Press Enter to continue') in your Python code 
before the point at which it executes the C/C++ code you want to debug.

Then, when it stops, go to another command line window (e.g. bash on Linux) 
and attach the debugger to the task.

On Linux I use:

    gdb python <pid>

You can find the process ID by doing:

    ps -ef | grep python

On Windows if I recall correctly (it's been a while for me), look the PID up 
in the process manager, then (with MS Visual C++), use:

    msdev -p <pid>

Then set a breakpoint and continue.

  - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman


From sav at ulj.menatepspb.com  Fri Nov  8 07:36:14 2002
From: sav at ulj.menatepspb.com (Alexander Semenov)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:36:14 +0300
Subject: PyWin32 cvs broken?
Message-ID: <3dcbafbe$1@post.ulj.menatepspb.com>

Hi,

I get

cvs [server aborted]: cannot read
/home/cvsroot/PyWin32/Pythonwin/Scintilla/src/LexVB.cxx,v: Input/output
error

from cvs or

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "viewcvs.py", line 2514, in run_cgi
    main()
  File "viewcvs.py", line 2477, in main
    view_directory(request)
  File "viewcvs.py", line 1091, in view_directory
    fileinfo, alltags = get_logs(full_name, rcs_files, view_tag)
  File "viewcvs.py", line 1035, in get_logs
    raise 'error during rlog: '+hex(status)
error during rlog: 0x7

from
http://www.pythonpros.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/PyWin32/Pythonwin/Scintilla/src
/

Alexander Semenov





From barghest at wanadoo.fr  Fri Nov  8 10:18:24 2002
From: barghest at wanadoo.fr (Barghest)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:18:24 +0100
Subject: About pyana ...
Message-ID: <aqgjvv$mg9$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Hi,

import Pyana
def formatRef():
    return "Hello <b> %s </b>" % 'foo'
...
Pyana.installGlobalExtension( 'pyNS', formatRef, 'formatRef' )
data = Pyana.transform2String( source = readData( "fichier.xml" ), style =
readData( "test3.xsl" ) )

=> Hello &lt;b&gt; foo &lt;/b&gt;

Just a simple question.
Why all my tags returned from my functions are always converted to entities
??
How can I obtain "Hello <b> foo </b>"  ?




From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Wed Nov 27 11:19:41 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:19:41 +0100
Subject: Tkinter scrolling canvas questions
References: <mailman.1038412478.18166.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as2qpc$j1m$1@news-reader10.wanadoo.fr>

Richard Kuhns wrote:

> I'd appreciate any comments or suggestions on the best way to proceed with
> a problem.  I'm fairly new to GUI programming, and I'd appreciate some
> pointers.
> 
> I have a list of lists of (name, variable) tuples I'd like to display.  In
> addition, I want to allow the variable's value to be changed/editted.  It
> looks something like:
> 
> li = [
>       [("a", a), ("b", b), "c", c)],
>       [("d", d), ("e", e), "f", f)]
>     ]
> 
> There's no limit on how many elements li can have, but each element will
> be the same size.
> 
> What I have in mind right now is to create a Frame for each element of the
> toplevel list.  Each Frame would contain Label and Entry widgets for each
> tuple in that element.  After each Frame is created I would then append it
> to the end of a vertically scrollable Canvas.
> 
> Does this sound reasonable?  If so, is there a good way to determine a
> good size for the canvas?  Each frame in the canvas will be a single line;
> how do I query the Label and Entry widgets to determine the size of the
> font being used?  I've been studying the Tkinter section of Programming
> Python 2E but I haven't been able to track down what I need.  The word
> "font" doesn't even appear in the index :(.  Are there any other "gotchas"
> I should watch out for?

The class ScrolledFrame in Pmw is your friend: 
http://pmw.sourceforge.net/doc/ScrolledFrame.html

Download it @ http://pmw.sourceforge.net/

The "real" method would actually involve computing the size of each frame 
you build via frm.winfo_height() (after a frm.update(), or the size will 
always be 0 or 1), add them all and configure your Canvas's scrollregion 
with that. Since Pmw does all the work for you, you really shouldn't 
bother...

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From mchermside at ingdirect.com  Fri Nov  1 08:22:28 2002
From: mchermside at ingdirect.com (Chermside, Michael)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:22:28 -0500
Subject: Regular exp matching delimited string excepting trailing delimiters?
Message-ID: <902A1E710FEAB740966EC991C3A38A8903C27877@INGDEXCHANGEC1.ingdirect.com>

> Can anyone suggest a reg exp (using re) that will match the 
> entirety of a delimited string of values, omitting zero or 
> more delimiters at the end of the string?

Take a look at the answer I gave Matthew Wood on a similar
problem just a couple of days ago under the subject "difficult 
regular expression". Basically, I showed him how to specify
part of a regular expression at the beginning or end which
must match but which is not included as part of the matched
text.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-October/128209.html

-- Michael Chermside



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 12 16:15:03 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:15:03 -0800
Subject: Optimisation problem
References: <mailman.1037087175.5506.python-list@python.org>
		 <aqr28o$4om$1@news.hccnet.nl>  <7h3heem23ju.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <mailman.1037125885.21852.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD16F57.56108E00@alcyone.com>

gabor wrote:

> you're saying that for example
> 
> x,y = 2,4
> 
> creates a tuple?
> 
> i thought thatr x,y=2,4 is the same as x=2;y=4

It does the same thing, but it creates a tuple (right hand side) and
then unpacks it (left hand side) to do the multiple assignment.

Technically speaking, the separate assignments will be faster (since
they do not have the overhead of creating and the unpacking a tuple). 
However, as I've maintained before, if you're _really_ in the situation
where this tiny change will make the difference between unacceptable run
times and unacceptable runtimes, Python is probably not the proper
choice of language for your project anyway.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If a thing is worth doing, then it is worth doing badly.
\__/ G.K. Chesterton
    ZOE / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/zoe/
 A simple Python OpenGL rendering engine.


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Tue Nov 12 19:16:13 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:16:13 -0800
Subject: Convert type() to string?
In-Reply-To: <s2gA9.47879$Lg2.13805658@news2.news.adelphia.net>
References: <s2gA9.47879$Lg2.13805658@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <200211130016.QAA05311@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Tuesday 12 November 2002 15:22, Robert Oschler wrote:

> print padstr + type(x)
>
> won't work because type() does not return a string.  What's a good way to
> do this?

print padstr + str(type(x))

??

-- 

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From Oschler at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 18 22:48:25 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 03:48:25 GMT
Subject: classifier systems re-coded in Python?
References: <mailman.1037670692.6438.python-list@python.org> <182dnaFhsdyUN0SgXTWcrg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <dwiC9.53310$Lg2.15307128@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:182dnaFhsdyUN0SgXTWcrg at comcast.com...
>
> "Kow K" <kowk at earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1037670692.6438.python-list at python.org...
> > Hi Pythoneers,
> >
> > I'm just wondering if anybody has re-coded David Goldberg's Pascal
> > implementation of John Holland's (learning) classifier system in
> Python.
> >
> > Any pointer will be appreciated.
>
> try:
>   google('Holland learning classifier Python')
>
> TJR
>
>

Terry,

Is google() a real command from some Python module, or were you just being
Programmer-ish? If it's from a module, is it PyGoogle, or something else?

thx





From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Thu Nov 21 05:12:42 2002
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 10:12:42 GMT
Subject: py2exe/numpy/com-server problem
Message-ID: <aribiq$rjqqb$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Hi,

I implemented a COM-Server for a class using NumericalPython (numarray).

If I install the server by 'python server.py --register' everything is fine.
If I use py2exe or the McMillan installer and call the generated .exe
in order to (un-)register the COM server, the program crashes.

I use Win2K, Python 2.2 (from Activestate, including win32com), 
and numarray 0.36.

Is this a known bug ? google did not help me.

Greetings, Uwe.

-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt      Computer science is no more about Computers,
uwe.schmitt at num.uni-sb.de      than astronomy is about telescopes. (Dijkstra)
http://www.procoders.net           


From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Nov 12 04:56:26 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:56:26 -0000
Subject: Delightful Python
References: <Xns92B0C8786864Fdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <3dba5dfb$1_1@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92C4652B55F0Cdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

"Mike Brown" <mike at skew.org> wrote in
news:3dba5dfb$1_1 at omega.dimensional.com: 

>> Mixing that with some Java software from Danny,
>> http://www.isacat.net/2001/code/CSVtoXML.htm
>>  I came up with a working
>> program in a couple of days, without a frown, in fact with
>> quite a few smiles. Eg. when I had to escape & and non ascii
>> characters, a one line addition in python.
>>   Only on one occasion did I find some code that didn't do what I
>> expected.
>> My only documentation was that delivered with 2.2, clear, concise
>>  well written and well indexed.
>>
>> Many thanks pythoneers, a delight to use.
>>
>> Regards DaveP.
> 
> Python could certainly replace that Java bit. One way of going about
> it is at http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66003
> ... though I'd be inclined to make it generate SAX events rather than
> paste together strings.

Hi Mike. Still catching up after a week away. In fact I had to dump the 
Java, it didn't handle a case I had, data which contained CR characters 
in
double quoted fields, so I used a python csv parser in the end!
 Some nice ideas in your reference though.

I like the way the java picked its tags to use from an external file,
which makes it infinitely flexible. I now use it in a batch file for 5 
files! 

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/159100

Regards DaveP


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Tue Nov  5 10:58:10 2002
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:58:10 +0000
Subject: Tkinter's button
In-Reply-To: <20021105034643.45380.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021105034643.45380.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1036511890.1389.1.camel@m-franklin>

On Tue, 2002-11-05 at 03:46, black wrote:
> 
> Howdy~
> 
> I have a button create with this line:
> import Tkintertk=Tkinter.Tk()button=Tkinter.Button(tk)
> and I found we could add some "property" with this format:
> button["text"]="Howdy"
> is that a hint that all buttons have a predifined dictionary ? and how to check all members ? I searched tutorial about Tkinter but found nothing. 

print button.config()


will list all the configuration options and values.....


you can also update widgets like:-


button.config(text="hello")







From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Nov 25 12:46:07 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 17:46:07 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <yfsbs4grxl0.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <1038162975.415777@yasure> <7h3el99smpj.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <artnkv$2oqe$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>:
| "Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> writes:
|> | It would seem to me that most or all of the benfits of static typing can be
|> | obtained from tools.
|> 
|> It can't.  In places where the program itself is determined by run time
|> inputs - like in the case of the module that's imported that way - your
|> tool is of no use.
|
| Of course, such tricks are flat out impossible in a static language, no?

Exactly.  Or, maybe.  Maybe it depends on what you need out of a trick.
No black magic or fakery, but I bet there's a place for the arcane arts.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From Francois at iecholden.com  Thu Nov 28 13:34:42 2002
From: Francois at iecholden.com (Meehan, Francois)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:34:42 -0500
Subject: Processing snmp data...
Message-ID: <7190BF5EB309D511A15600508BF18D832DDFC0@exchange.iecholden.com>

Hi all,

I need to process snmp data. I have installed SNMPY, but did not find
documentation for it. Then tried PYSNMP but I am a beginner at python and
found it way too complicated...

I tried using the following:

cmd = '/usr/bin/snmpwalk ' + server + ' ' +  community + ' ' +
'.1.3.6.1.4.1.311.1.1.3.1.1.5.1.4'
res = commands.getstatusoutput(cmd)

That returns a list, and the items that I need are part of a big string:

enterprises.311.1.1.3.1.1.5.1.4.6.48.58.48.58.67.58 = 907
enterprises.311.1.1.3.1.1.5.1.4.6.48.58.48.58.68.58 = 4633
enterprises.311.1.1.3.1.1.5.1.4.13.95.84.111.116.97.108.58.95.84.111.116.97.
108 = 5540

I just need what is after the "=" sign. 

How can I extract these values?

Should I use SNMPY instead? If so, were can I find documentation about it?

Thanks in advance, your "humble" newbee,


Francois Meehan           
  



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  9 03:11:23 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:11:23 -0700
Subject: Determining Presence Of GUI Support
References: <42aiqa.jp82.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <aqifvc$4m7$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

> Is there a portable method of determining whether the current runtime
> environment supports a GUI or text-based interface?  I would like to
> write a single program which autosenses the presentation environment
> and works accordingly.

In short, no. Your code could be running, for example, under the Xvfb X 
server. It's a 'virtual' server which doesn't actually display anything. It's 
a fantastic tool for many purposes, precisely because it fools any program 
into thinking it's running under normal X, while it isn't. 

I'm sure others can point to a myriad other situations where your code won't 
be able to identify what the user is actually seeing.

Cheers,

f.


From kvsprasadrao at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 28 11:54:05 2002
From: kvsprasadrao at yahoo.com (sivaprasad kondapalli)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:54:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Virtual machine
Message-ID: <20021128165405.85289.qmail@web20512.mail.yahoo.com>


Hi,

Can anyone please clarify my doubts.

Can Python run on any Virtual Machine?or only on Python Virtual Machine?

How good is Python to develop a Thick Client Applications?

 

Thanks in Advance

Siva



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From berkowit at silcom.com  Fri Nov 29 18:17:28 2002
From: berkowit at silcom.com (Paul Berkowitz)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:17:28 -0800
Subject: Can't find user module despite setting PYTHONPATH
References: <BA0D042F.27479%berkowit@silcom.com> <BA0D0E7D.2749B%berkowit@silcom.com> <BA0D1211.274A2%berkowit@silcom.com> <BA0D1BFD.274AD%berkowit@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <BA0D3588.27519%berkowit@silcom.com>

On 11/29/02 1:28 PM, in article BA0D1BFD.274AD%berkowit at silcom.com, I wrote:

> Is there anyone here with Mac OS 10.2? Do you know how to get Python to
> recognize PYTHONPATH, as the shell does. Or else what is the right way to
> modify sys.path to it is retained between sessions?

I got a reply off-list, which directed me to the python-mac sig,
http://www.python.org/sigs/pythonmac-sig/.


Although most of the accumulated archives deal with MacPython in the old Mac
OS (the new Mac OS X is BSD Unix, but with its own peculiarities), I did
soon come upon a recent post with a reference to Russell Owen's website,
which sure enough had the answer on one of its pages:

<http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/AquaEnvVar.html>

It would be good to get that page reference into the python.org FAQ: it's
going to come up frequently since Python is now built into Mac OS 10.2 and
later, but PYTHONPATH is ignored by the Python installation. It is indeed a
Mac OS X-specific issue. Russell's method works.

Here's the full content of Russell's page:

-------------------------------------------------------------

How to define environment variables so that MacOS X applications can see
them.

MacOS X native applications do not see unix environment variables defined in
~/.cshrc or any other of the standard unix configuration files. Normally
this doesn't matter, but certain MacOS X applications can make good use of
environment variables. These include the framework build of Python (which is
used to write wxPython or aqua Tk appliations) and BBEdit (which can
directly run unix scripts, but without your environment variables unless you
define them in this fashion).

The trick is to define your environment variables in the file
~/.MacOSX/environment.plist. The odds are that you'll have to create both
the directory and the file. The format is as per this example:


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple Computer//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN"
"http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
    <key>DISPLAY</key>
    <string>:0.0</string>
    <key>PYTHONPATH</key>
    
<string>/full/path/ofyour/favorite/script/dir:/full/path/of/another/script/d
ir:</string>
</dict>
</plist>


Notes: 

*    Use absolute paths and spell them out. The home directory shortcut ~
will not be expanded.
*    Whenever you modify the file, log out and then log back in again to use
it (though there might be an easier way to reload it).
*    It may be necessary for the file to have unix line endings. I haven't
tried anything else.
*    I imagine other things can be in the file (such as comments), but I
don't know what. The developer's documentation probably describes the file
in full detail somewhere; I've not looked.


Thanks to the tech support people at BBEdit for first telling me about this
file.


First published 2002-11-08 by
Russell Owen

-- 
Paul Berkowitz



From khs at trolltech.com  Tue Nov 12 20:16:32 2002
From: khs at trolltech.com (Kent Sandvik)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:16:32 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <3DD1A1B8.6010400@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <8B3EF992-F6A5-11D6-B5F3-00039300E082@trolltech.com>

Oh, I just wanted to be added to this never-ending thread, so I'm 
immortal... --Kent




From grante at visi.com  Sat Nov  9 13:22:49 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 18:22:49 GMT
Subject: Determining Presence Of GUI Support
References: <42aiqa.jp82.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <aL2z9.8372$Bs5.285294@news1.tin.it> <vpgjqa.l7h2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaso03a.211.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <vpgjqa.l7h2.ln at boundary.tundraware.com>, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

> I was thinking more of the problem of trying to determine whether I
> should use textual output or invoke some GUI presentation. I guess the
> best I could do would be to figure out whether I am in xterm, character
> term (vt100...), or Win32 environment (and whatever a Mac returns for
> $TERM) and use that as the determining factor.

That sounds like a pretty bad idea to me.  Under X11, my terminal type may
be ansi, vt102, rxvt, rxvt-color, or xterm depending on how I'm logged in.
X11 users expect applications to do the character/X11 decision based on the
DISPLAY environment variable.  

If you want to know whether X is _supposed_ to work, check for the env
variable DISPLAY.  If you want to know whether it does work, there are small
executables that I've seen used in scripts to check for the presence of an X
server -- you could take a look to see what they do. 

> This is also imperfect in that a number of textual terminal programs like
> puTTY set their type as 'xterm' even though they are not actually graphical
> interfaces.

The TERM variable has nothing to do with whether or not ther terminal
program is running under a "graphical inteface" or not.  It tells the
text-mode UI libraries with set of escape sequences the terminal program
knows how to interpret.

> Another option, I suppose, would be to provide a command line interface
> option to force the mode of choice.

You should definitely do that regardless of whatever other method you use to
choose an appropriate default.  Just because I've got X11 running it doesn't
mean I always want a GUI to pop up when I run a program.

> Years ago, in the transition from MS-DOS to Windows, there used to be
> a way to lay a DOS binary into the Windows executable file.  That way,
> a single file worked for either environment.  This, by analogy, is
> what I wanted to accomplish.

If you're worried about chossing between X11 and ncurses, use the DISPLAY
environment variable.  It's what everybody else does.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Everywhere I look
                                  at               I see NEGATIVITY and
                               visi.com            ASPHALT...


From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Tue Nov 26 08:03:24 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:03:24 -0600
Subject: Python and gd library - Thank to all
References: <HrvD9.42612$744.1519497@news1.tin.it> <mAbE9.50069$744.1815000@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1038200793.7697.python-list@python.org> <sBGE9.6592$1r1.259877@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <002701c2954c$3e5360e0$ba01010a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com>


> Chris Gonnerman wrote:
> >
> > > The old gd-lib 1.8 can create and manipolate low quality images jpg
but
> > > the new gd-lib 2.0 can create and manipulate high quality jpg.
> >
> > I wasn't aware of any difference there... I am now using
> > GD 2.0.1 on my development system, and my gddemo.py still
> > produces fuzzy and color-incorrect JPEG's; the *same* image
> > object produces a crisp, clear PNG.
>
> the first item under "what's new in 2.0" in the GD documentation says:
>
>     Support for truecolor images! /.../ To create a truecolor image
>     from scratch, call the new gdImageCreateTrueColor function. The
>     gdImageCreate function is still available to create palette images,
>     and may also be referred to as gdImageCreatePalette.
>
> </F>

Urr... I assumed that Mike's patch took care of those
things "automatically."  I'll review the code and maybe
get a new version out by the weekend.

> PS. PIL 1.1.4 now supports opentype/truetype fonts.  more info here:
> http://effbot.org/zone/pil-changes-114.htm

Is that the free or pay version?

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net




From dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de  Tue Nov 12 12:29:30 2002
From: dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de (Joerg Woelke)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:29:30 +0100
Subject: newbie Q: shortcuts for long module names?
References: <mailman.1037115622.16554.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD13A7A.2DF51CAE@felis.uni-freiburg.de>

Hello!

Ken Godee wrote:
> 
> Couldn't you also.....
> 
> from this.is.a.long.module.name import *

Danger!
This may pollute your namespace.

[ useless fullquote snipped ]

HTH, J"o!

--


From Padraig at Linux.ie  Mon Nov 11 08:40:19 2002
From: Padraig at Linux.ie (Padraig Brady)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:40:19 GMT
Subject: referencing disjoint array indexes
References: <DnNz9.11696$cP3.22276@news.iol.ie> <v6Oz9.22472$XO.1063011@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DCFB2C9.7000707@Linux.ie>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Padraig Brady wrote:
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>Is there any way you can do something like
>>
>>size, mtime = os.stat()[8,6]
> 
> Sure, e.g.:
> 
> def getat(alist, *idx):
>     return [alist[x] for x in idx]
> 
> size, mtime = getat(os.stat(), 8, 6)
> 
> I saw you mentioning in a followup that this "doesn't support slicing".  
> Actually, not supporting slicing polymorphically with indexing is a
> problem with Python 2.2's builtin sequences (which were still using
> the C-level equivalent of the obsolete, deprecated __getslice__ &c
> methods), already overcome in Python 2.3 -- in 2.3a0:
> 
>>>>def getat(alist, *idx): return [alist[x] for x in idx]
>>>
> ...
> 
>>>>getat('four score and seven', 2, 3, slice(6,10), 1)
>>>
> ['u', 'r', 'core', 'o']

cool.

> You do have to use the explicit notation with built-in 'slice' rather than 
> just the colon-notation for slice -- the latter is NOT accepted by Python 
> (even Python 2.3) in general syntactic positions such as argument passing:

Bah humbug

[snip]

> Making blah[8,6] equivalent to [blah(x) for x in [8,6]] on the other
> hand is clearly unacceptable because "blah[8,6]" already HAS a meaning,
> and it is the same as blah[(8,6)].

Yes pity 8,6 is equivalent to (8,6) is various contexts.

> Maybe that shouldn't be an error
> when blah is a list -- i.e. maybe a sequence's __getitem__ should be
> able to accept a sequence (in this case, a tuple) as well as an integer
> or a slice --

Yep I see this mainly useful on lists/tuples where tuple indexing
is not valid anyway, but then that's inconsistent with dictionary
indexing so I wouldn't support that unless for dictionaries (and
possibly everywhere) 8,6 != (8,6)

> but I have no indication that the BDFL is currently
> prone to accepting further complications in the semantics of sequence
> indexing.  Still, I don't claim to channel the BDFL (that's the
> timbot's job, not mine), so, again, python-dev is where you might
> possibly convince him (again, start by writing a PEP -- the bigger
> the change you want, the more a PEP is needed -- ideally, a sample
> patch wrt the current 2.3a0 CVS tree should also go with it, but
> that's nowhere like mandatory except in cases where a mod's very
> feasibility is in doubt).

Hmm it would be a huge change to make it consistent so it's a
non-starter I think :-(

P?draig.



From imbosol at vt.edu  Tue Nov 12 16:41:10 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:41:10 -0500
Subject: Optimisation problem
References: <mailman.1037087175.5506.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqs27m$avm$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

"Simon Wittber (Maptek)" wrote:
> I have created a quaternion class which I am using for rotations in
> OpenGL.
> Usage goes something like this:
> 
> q = Quaternion(zRot, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0)
> glMultMatrixf(q.matrix)
> 
> Does anyone have any idea how I can optimise this code? It is going to
> be used in a very tight rendering loop. I would prefer to keep all the
> code in Python, and avoid writing any external modules.

> class Quaternion:
>        def __init__(self, degree, x, y, z):
>                self.matrix = range(16)
>                
>                angle = (degree / 180.0)  *
> 3.1415926535897932384626433832795
>                result = math.sin(angle / 2.0)
> 
>                self.w = math.cos(angle / 2.0)
>                self.x = x * result
>                self.y = y * result
>                self.z = z * result
>                self.__createMatrix()
> 
>        def __createMatrix(self):
>                self.matrix[0] = 1.0 - 2.0 * ( self.y * self.y + self.z
> * self.z )
>                self.matrix[1] = 2.0 * ( self.x * self.y - self.w *
> self.z )
>                self.matrix[2] = 2.0 * ( self.x * self.z + self.w *
> self.y )
>                self.matrix[3] = 0.0
>                
>                self.matrix[4] = 2.0 * ( self.x * self.y + self.w *
> self.z )
>                self.matrix[5] = 1.0 - 2.0 * ( self.x * self.x + self.z
> * self.z )
>                self.matrix[6] = 2.0 * ( self.y * self.z - self.w *
> self.x )
>                self.matrix[7] = 0.0
>                
>                self.matrix[8] = 2.0 * ( self.x * self.z - self.w *
> self.y )
>                self.matrix[9] = 2.0 * ( self.y * self.z + self.w *
> self.x )
>                self.matrix[10] = 1.0 - 2.0 * ( self.x * self.x + self.y
> * self.y )
>                self.matrix[11] = 0.0
>                
>                self.matrix[12] = 0.0
>                self.matrix[13] = 0.0
>                self.matrix[14] = 0.0
>                self.matrix[15] = 1.0



Simon,

First I must ask a question:

Is this the only time you use the Quaternion?  In other words, do you
create the Quaternion from the arguments, use it to create the matrix,
and never use it again?

If so, you don't want to use a class at all.  Just write a function
that takes degree, x, y, and z as arguments and returns the matrix.
(In fact, if the function only appears in your code once, you probably
should not bother with a function at all.)


However, I suspect the Quaternion has all kinds of operations defined,
and that you create the quaternion far from where you use it to create
a matrix in the loop.  Obviously, you can't do away with the
Quaternion class then.

So, concentrating on the create matrix function.  First, think about
using the array module.  It is a standard module that comes from the
Python distribution, and is often much faster than lists for
homogenous numercial arrays.  Arrays appear to be acceptable as
arguments to Python OpenGL.  For this particular use of it, I don't
know if it'll be faster, but it's worth a try.

If you do use a list, it might be faster to just construct the matrix
directly, rather than setting individual elements:

   self.matrix = [ 1.0 - 2.0*(y*y+z*z),
                   2.0*(x*y-w*z), ... ]

And, as others have said, use local variables, and try to save
multiplications by factoring common operations.



-- 
CARL BANKS


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  5 17:43:32 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:43:32 -0500
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <04ScnQC8Dssb2lWgXTWcpg@comcast.com>

"Donnal Walter" <donnal at donnal.net> wrote in message
news:918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077 at posting.google.com...
> If one wishes use an OSI-approved license for one's own code, there
> are many to choose from, two of which are GPL and the PSF license.
If
> one chooses GPL, there are explicit instructions at the Gnu Web site
> on how to use the license. On the other hand, I have not seen any
such
> instructions for using the PSF license. Can one simply refer to the
> PSF license without making changes? Or is it advisable to make a
> revised copy, changing the name of the name of the owner/copyright
> holder from PSF to oneself, for example? What else is required?

Since the PSF license is part of the package covered by the PSF
license, I would assume that it covers itself.  That should mean that
a) you can use and modify it (and you should change copyright holder
unless you really mean to donate it to PSF) and b) you do so at your
own risk (if you get into trouble with it, you don't sue PSF).

Terry J. Reedy

PS The above is offered on the same terms 8-).




From simon at simon-cozens.org  Mon Nov  4 19:35:07 2002
From: simon at simon-cozens.org (Simon Cozens)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 00:35:07 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <usdq1tapaekk87@corp.supernews.com> <87vg3dt21t.fsf@simoncozens-2.dsl.easynet.co.uk> <h0rpqKAfzwx9EwiH@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87heewua4k.fsf@simoncozens-2.dsl.easynet.co.uk>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
> .... here in Wandsworth the name Lucky Parrot has long belonged to a
> Grey that has been incarcerated in a small cage for twenty years.
> Calling such a bird dead would be a mercy.  

Maybe it's not dead; it may have just ceased to be. 

I had similar problems, since my next stop after the "Parrot tour",
where all this boring VM stuff was decided, happened to be New York
City, home of the extremely famous tic-tac-toe chicken. 
(http://members.tripod.com/the-wire/wire0102/ny0102.html)

Since then, of course, the bird has been rescued, given a new home,
and is now much happier.

Whether we need to give a new home to our brand new Virtual Machine
performing bird is not clear, but I'm happily convinced that its soul
will not die off, and that people will make the most of its talents in
the most humane way possible.

-- 
"(Because if life's not shit, then you're not doing it right.)"
    - Rebecca Luckraft


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Mon Nov 18 20:46:56 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:46:56 -0800
Subject: infinite recursion
In-Reply-To: <m3zns69x38.fsf@mutated.seabass>
References: <m3zns69x38.fsf@mutated.seabass>
Message-ID: <200211190146.RAA28906@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Monday 18 November 2002 17:17, michael eng wrote:

> Anyway, is there a way in which I can remove the upper bound, such that
> the recursion depth is only limited by the constraints of the machine?

The problem being that the operating system may well decide to terminate your 
program (or perhaps your program will terminate the OS :), when you reach the 
"constraints of the machine".  I suspect the best you can do is set the limit 
as high as possible (on a 32 bit machine, that should be 2^31-1; do you 
REALLY recurse further down than that).  But, you must then somehow tell the 
operating system (BEFORE starting the python interpreter), to give your 
process an insane amount of stack.

But, beware of losing your calculations when your machine kills the process.  
You should definitely check out "Stackless Python", which could help 
ameliorate the problems to some extent.

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov  6 05:36:33 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:36:33 GMT
Subject: power TypeErrors
References: <mailman.1036529766.5188.python-list@python.org> <aq9cf2$iku$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <aq9t10$6r3$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <7h3adkn0yyl.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> But this makes wonder about working with complex numbers, where
> name bindings might be to plain real negatives as well as complex
> numbers (as easy to do as binding to integers and floats, which makes
> for the '/' problem) yet you might want the same for
>  >>> a = -4.0+0j
>  >>> b = -4.0
>  >>> a ** 0.5
>  (1.2246063538223773e-016+2j)
>  >>> b ** 0.5
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power
> 
> It seems like a problem analogous to the true division problem,
> except that fewer people expect complex results.

Does anyone actually use complex numbers in Python?  I guess the
numeric folks might.

complex ** complex is multi-valued, of course.  But so's int ** float,
so I guess people can live with that.

> I wouldn't want complex results all the time, but I can see wanting
> to run that way in a limited context.

It's a bit odd that there's no cmath.pow().

> Which comes down again to whether there should be some kind of general
> mechanism to control such modes of operation within scopes such as
> function bodies or statement suites (indented blocks).

Would be nice, but sounds hard.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Premature optimization is the root of all evil.
       -- Donald E. Knuth, Structured Programming with goto Statements


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 13 06:19:39 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:19:39 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037159000.15424.python-list@python.org> <aqsoo7$v8$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <fzqA9.3825$744.130672@news1.tin.it>

Martin Maney wrote:
   ...
> Think about the straightforward implementation of this in legal Python
> with less undersized indentation than I used before:

[KNode doesn't display your tabs in this reply, so I don't know if they 
remained or not -- you can use spaces if you want to avoid such issues).


> for l in lines:
> m = re1.match(l)
> if m:
> ... process type 1
> else:
> m = re2.match(l)
> if m:
> ... process type 2
> else:
> m = re3.match(l)
> if m:
> ... process type 3

Flat is better than nested:

for l in lines:
    m = re1.match(1)
    if m:
        ...process type 1...
        continue
    m = re2.match(1)
    if m:
        ...process type 2...
        continue
    m = re3.match(1)
    if m:
        ...process type 3...
        continue

or probably better, putting the "processtype" into functions:

for l in lines:
    for are, processtype in zip((re1,re2,re3),(pt1, pt2, ptr)):
        m = are.match(l)
        if m:
            processtype(m)
            break
    else:
        nomatchfor(l)

exhibiting even better the commonality of structure (IMHO).


I've found myself wishing for "set-and-test" basically in ONE
kind of situation: when I was transcribing algorithms coded in
languages that used that form, such as C.  In such cases, of
course, it's trivially easy to build and use set-and-test, see:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66061


Alex



From srumbalski at prodigy.net  Wed Nov 27 10:59:58 2002
From: srumbalski at prodigy.net (Steven Rumbalski)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:59:58 GMT
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
References: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com> <3de3e129$0$4437$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <as0p9f$3c7$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <uu89r7d7flnd09@news.supernews.com> <as2ls4$2up$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <2_5F9.740$HU7.41815217@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>

Joshua Marshall wrote:

> John Roth <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote:
> 
>> I'd think it would be equivalent to:
> 
>> a += i
>> b += j
> 
>> the corner case you mention should behave
>> the same as
> 
>> a, b = b, a
> 
>> Why make it more complicated than it has
>> to be?
> 
> Because if you do the translation with your rule, you get:
> 
>   a += b
>   b += a
> 
> which is, in my opinion, unexpected.

Consider this:

a, b = b, a

If you do the translation with your rule, you get:

a = b
b = a

which is wrong.

So if

a, b += b, a

is unintuitive, then so is

a, b = b, a

While I think both constructs are unintuitive (especially for people coming 
from other languages), I beleive that once one construct is learned the 
other is natural (however this thread has certainly challenged that 
assertion).

But don't get me wrong.  I'm not proposing that Python be modified to 
support "a, b += i, j".  I just wanted to know why what felt natural to me 
while using Python isn't legal Python.  I suppose the possible reasons are:

1.  It's not that useful, and therefore not worth implementing.
2.  It's not intuitive.
3.  It is intuitive, but it would be an ugly hack to implement.
4.  No one has really thought of it. (Likely because it's not that useful).


Steven Rumbalski


From theller at python.net  Tue Nov 19 02:37:33 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 08:37:33 +0100
Subject: Will python binaries compiled on vs.net?
References: <mailman.1037638533.5593.python-list@python.org> <VjdC9.14331$nK4.35697@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <fzty57sy.fsf@python.net>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> writes:

> I simply like the VC6 UI better.  I have a full VC7 installed here,
> but never use it.
> 
Same for me, but one thing annoys me: if an access violation is raised
or a breakpoint encountered, now VC7 pops up (after asking several
questions) if I press the cancel button in the message box to debug
the application.

So my question is: How can I restore the debugger from VC6 to be the
default again?

Thomas


From pobrien at orbtech.com  Thu Nov  7 15:33:12 2002
From: pobrien at orbtech.com (Patrick K. O'Brien)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:33:12 -0600
Subject: ANN: Python Persistence Article
Message-ID: <usljf6rntod1cc@corp.supernews.com>

I thought you folks might find this interesting:

LINUX ZONE | Python persistence
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/?n-l-1172

::: Python persistence management :::
Persisting data is all well and good, and there are countless ways to 
do it, including files, databases, and so on. But when it comes to 
objects themselves, how do you keep them around so they'll be available 
in their same state for later use? Programmer Patrick O'Brien 
illustrates several persistence mechanisms for Python and takes a 
detailed look at the object-serialization process known as "pickling."
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pypers.html?n-l-1172

-- 
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech      http://www.orbtech.com/web/pobrien
-----------------------------------------------
"Your source for Python programming expertise."
-----------------------------------------------


From toni at soth.at  Sat Nov  9 15:56:27 2002
From: toni at soth.at (Toni Andjelkovic)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 20:56:27 GMT
Subject: GUI with blocking database access
References: <5ec37a54.0211050322.e663b54@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasqtk1.360.toni@outpost.soth.at>

In article <5ec37a54.0211050322.e663b54 at posting.google.com>,
Tim Scheffler wrote:
> Does somebody have an idea how to construct a GUI, that can trigger
> such an I/O module? I thought about to run two separate processes on
> WIN-NT one that provides the GUI and one that runs the I/O and let
> them communicate through a pipe or something like that. But here I
> dont know how to start two processes from one python script as fork()
> wont work on WIN-NT.

If you really need to wrap the I/O library in a separate process,
consider using non-blocking sockets instead of pipes. It gives you more
flexibility, although it's a bit more complex to implement. The
SocketServer and asyncore modules might help you there.

cheers,
-- 
Toni Andjelkovic
<toni at soth.at>



From gumuz at looze.net  Thu Nov 14 15:11:09 2002
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:11:09 GMT
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <qjDA9.6146$mN6.2823494@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <3dd3921c$0$223$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <T4TA9.53$P4.8357@news.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <xrTA9.7056$D02.298952@castor.casema.net>

thanks


"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
news:T4TA9.53$P4.8357 at news.uchicago.edu...




From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 13 19:00:32 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:00:32 +1300
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD1AB92.3030409@something.invalid> <pan.2002.11.13.03.03.13.245195.12688@metaslash.com>
Message-ID: <3DD2E7A0.4090504@something.invalid>

Neal Norwitz wrote:

> You can *kinda* do this with 2.1 (at least) and up:
> 
> 	>>> import math
> 	>>> def foo(): return foo.pi
> 	... 
> 	>>> foo.pi = math.pi
> 	>>> foo()
> 	3.1415926535897931


But that defeats the purpose, which presumably was to
avoid a global name lookup!

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Nov 27 13:32:17 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:32:17 -0600
Subject: *args and **kwargs
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302FAC4B4@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Dan [mailto:dan at cox.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 12:09 PM
> 
> thanks for the answer specifically for "args".  Still I don't quite
> understand the Python syntax.
> 
> *something = encapsulate into a set   ??
> **something = encapsulate into a Dictionary??
> 
> dan
>

Not exactly;

  *args   -> accumulates all excess _positional_ arguments.
  *kw     -> accumulates all excess _keyword_ arguments.

say you have a function definition:

>>> def something(first,second,third):
...   print "first =", first
...   print "second =", second
...   print "third =", third

You can call this function in any number of ways:

>>> something(1,2,3)
first = 1
second = 2
third = 3

>>> something(second=1, third=2, first=3)
first = 3
second = 1
third = 2


This means that Python resolves parameter placement using
both the positional and the keyword arguments used in the
function call.

BUT, what happens with this?

>>> something(1,2,3,4)
---> TypeError: something() takes exactly 3 arguments (4 given)

>>> something(second="a", first=3, third=None, hello="Goodbye")
---> TypeError: something() got an unexpected keyword argument 'hello'

So, sometimes, it's useful to catch any unexpected, or
excess, or a variable number of positional or keyword
arguments.  You use "*args" and "**kwargs" for this.

Lets redefine 'something':

>>> def something(first, second, third, *rest, **others):
...   print "first =", first
...   print "second =", second
...   print "third =", third
...   if rest:
...      print "Rest of positional arguments =", rest
...   if others:
...      print "Other keyword arguments =", others

If no excess positional arguments are present in the function
call, then 'rest' is an empty tuple, otherwise, it contains
the exceeding (positional) arguments found, and are placed
in 'rest' in the same order they're present in the function
call.

The same goes for 'others'; if no excess keyword arguments
are found, 'others' is an empty dictionary; otherwise,
it contains all 'keyword=value' pairs found in the
function call which don't satisfy any of the formal
parameters for the function.

Since both 'rest' and 'others' are containers (the first
a tuple, the second a dictionary), they can be used in
a boolean test; if they're empty, then they're considered
to be "false", else "true".

So, you could now call 'something' like this:

>>> something(1,2,3,4)
first = 1
second = 2
third = 3
Rest of positional arguments = (4,)

A-Ha! A tuple, containing the lone '4' appended to the
argument list.  In the other example:

>>> something(second="a", first=3, third=None, hello="Goodbye")
first = 3
second = a
third = None
Other keyword arguments = {'hello': 'Goodbye'}

Gotcha! A dictionary, containing as key:value pairs, all key=value
parameters in the function call which don't correspond to any
of the function's formal parameters.


>>> something(2,3,4,5,6,hello="Goodbye",stop="GoGoGo")
first = 2
second = 3
third = 4
Rest of positional arguments = (5, 6)
Other keyword arguments = {'stop': 'GoGoGo', 'hello': 'Goodbye'}


And you can mix and match as you need.

This is a very, very useful characteristic of Python which I
hadn't found in any other language (only the positional part,
but never the keywords part).  It can get tricky sometimes,
when you mix both positional and keyword arguments, but
by the time you get used to it, you won't have any troubles.

I suppose others can expand s'more on this, let's see what
a Guru can add....

Good luck :-)

-gustavo



From bobx at linuxmail.org  Sun Nov  3 21:06:54 2002
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Bob X)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 02:06:54 GMT
Subject: pyqt rules
References: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <3dc571d0$0$63818$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <7Dgx9.41909$Lg2.11396126@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1036370164.21605.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2Dkx9.42039$Lg2.11444432@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Phil Thompson" <phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.1036370164.21605.python-list at python.org...
On Sunday 03 November 2002 9:33 pm, Bob X wrote:
<snip>
>The binary of Qt NC is at
>http://www.trolltech.com/developer/download/qt-win-noncomm.html

Under the requirement it states that Visual Studio 6 is required. Does that
mean only for integration into the IDE or does that mean I have to compile
the download with it? I guess I am just confused about the lingo they are
using. I have been to that page several times and always thought they meant
here is the Qt stuff BUT you have to compile it with VC6.

>The binary of PyQt for Qt NC is at
>http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/download.php

So I get the binary (exe's) for both...run 'em and now I can do PyQt?

Bob




From slzatz at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  2 22:53:14 2002
From: slzatz at hotmail.com (Steve Zatz)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 19:53:14 -0800
Subject: Tkinter File Dialog Question
Message-ID: <6747bc9d.0211021953.4fd02462@posting.google.com>

In the Tkinter FileSaveAs Dialog - is there any way to get at the
user's selection of a file extension?  If the user creates a file
without an extension, I want to append the "Save as type" extension
(what it's called under Windows), but I don't see any way to get at
the dialog box's value for the file extension.  Any help would be
appreciated.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Nov 13 15:32:26 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:32:26 -0600
Subject: Arrays?
In-Reply-To: <slrnat5p1i.f3.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
References: <3dd2a4fc$0$28317$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <slrnat5p1i.f3.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20021113203225.GA13513@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 07:54:53PM +0000, Wojtek Walczak wrote:
> Dnia Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:15:28 -0000, e-tones.co.uk napisa?(a):
> > So im  looking to creat a list? If so, how do I make it 2 dimensional?
> 
> >>> a=[[]]*2
> >>> a
> [[], []]
> >>>
> 
> Is that what you wanted?

Almost certainly not.

>>> a = [[]]*2
>>> a
[[], []]
>>> a[0].append(1)
>>> a
[[1], [1]]

oops!

You might want
>>> a = [ [] for i in range(2) ]
instead

>>> a = [ [] for i in range(2) ]
>>> a
[[], []]
>>> a[0].append(1)
>>> a
[[1], []]

Jeff



From phdyk at home.com  Fri Nov 29 13:45:19 2002
From: phdyk at home.com (Peter Dyk)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:45:19 -0500
Subject: dbiRaw and odbc
Message-ID: <CAOF9.6022$Nm.894344@news20.bellglobal.com>

A couple of posts asked how to manipulate the BLOB retrieved by a query via
the odbc module. The answer is to use the attribute "value":

dbc = odbc.odbc('AAA')
crsr = dbc.cursor()
crsr.execute("select * from IDWAAA")
row = crsr.fetchone()
f = open(imageFileName, "wb+")
f.write(row[idwphotofield1].value)

Make sure to open the file in binary mode!

There does not seem to be a whole lot of documentation around on the odbc
interface. For instance, I only by chance stumbled on the value attribute,
since it is a build-in.






From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Nov 12 17:32:58 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:32:58 -0600
Subject: text formatting module?
References: <ut0kfm7iegohde@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m265v2o1ut.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Lance" == Lance  <lbrannma at cablespeed.com> writes:

    Lance> Hi All, I would like to write text that word wraps to two
    Lance> or three levels of tab stops.

I don't know of a module, but something like the following may help:

def get_split_ind(seq, N):
   """seq is a list of words.  Return the index into seq such that 
   len(' '.join(seq[:ind])<=N
   """
   
   sLen = 0
   # todo: use Alex's xrange pattern from the cbook for efficiency
   for (word, ind) in zip(seq, range(len(seq))):
      sLen += len(word) + 1  # +1 to account for the len(' ')
      if sLen>=N: return ind
   return len(seq)
      
   
def wrap(prefix, text, cols):

   pad = ' '*len(prefix.expandtabs())
   available = cols - len(pad)

   seq = text.split(' ')
   Nseq = len(seq)
   ind = 0
   lines = []
   while ind<Nseq:
      lastInd = ind
      ind += get_split_ind(seq[ind:], available)
      lines.append(seq[lastInd:ind])

   # add the prefix to the first line, pad with spaces otherwise
   ret = prefix + ' '.join(lines[0]) + '\n'
   for line in lines[1:]:
      ret += pad + ' '.join(line) + '\n'
   return ret

prefix = 'expandtabs\t'


text = """Expand tabs in a string, i.e. replace them by one or more spaces, depending on the current column and the given tab size.  The column number is reset to zero after each newline occurring in the string. This doesn't understand other non-printing characters or escape sequences.  The tab size defaults to 8.
"""

print wrap(prefix, text, 64)


which prints:



expandtabs	Expand tabs in a string, i.e. replace them by
                one or more spaces, depending on the current
                column and the given tab size.  The column
                number is reset to zero after each newline
                occurring in the string. This doesn't
                understand other non-printing characters or
                escape sequences.  The tab size defaults to
                8.


Hope this helps,
John Hunter



From oleg_inconnu at myrealbox.com  Fri Nov  8 07:54:01 2002
From: oleg_inconnu at myrealbox.com (Oleg)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 04:54:01 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
Message-ID: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>

Hi

I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
between Python and Common Lisp (
http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?

Oleg


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Tue Nov 12 06:37:51 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:37:51 GMT
Subject: Python Browser Applets
References: <mailman.1036618569.11393.python-list@python.org> <P5qy9.22663$5u4.69909@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <8a6ba1da.0211080149.69190c08@posting.google.com> <_nNy9.28078$5u4.84947@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <8a6ba1da.0211120102.4f6c949b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <jK5A9.18074$eX.48410@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Richie Hindle:

> The SinkWorld website is somewhat vague about licensing - any chance of
> this editor being open source?

   It is unlikely that I'll want to put the effort into building and
maintaining the platform layer for Java unless a customer is prepared to pay
for the work. Or if I think (and I don't, currently) that there is enough of
a market to sell the Java version. GUI code requires lots of tedious
platform bug fixing. Reading the jEdit development list shows how hard it is
for a team to support Swing. I do want to release the core data structure
layer of SinkWorld on Java as open source. Once that is done, other people
may decide to write a platform layer just as others have written platform
layers for Scintilla on wxWindows, Fox, and Qt.

   Neil




From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Nov 20 14:50:17 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:50:17 -0800
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0211201119.2f846d0c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <00b101c290ce$0d336550$21795418@dell1700>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> Sorry for digressing, but this reminds me of an old debate on whether
> Python is suitable as the first language to teach.
> 
> Well, the thing is that Python works with "name binding". And the
> concepts of name spaces, name binding, objects, mutability, etc. are
> just a bit non-obvious. Once a person understands these things, or if
> a person knows about pointers, hashmaps and memory structure,
> everything becomes clear. But for someone not familiar with either of
> these sets of concepts, Python can be hard to explain.

I think that the conceptual problem that people have with assignment
being a binding operation is that they are used to names labeling some
sort of memory mailbox. 

If you had not preconceived notion of what "names" mean then you might
have fewer problems.

Cheers,
Brian




From benjl at cse.unsw.edu.au  Thu Nov 28 19:06:44 2002
From: benjl at cse.unsw.edu.au (Benno)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 16:06:44 -0800
Subject: Name of current method
References: <pan.2002.11.28.20.26.03.172820.727@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <332c7c11.0211281606.3ebd4991@posting.google.com>

Thomas Guettler <pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in message news:<pan.2002.11.28.20.26.03.172820.727 at thomas-guettler.de>...
> Hi!
> 
> How can I get the name of the method which is
> executed?
> 
> Example:
> 
> def mymethod(self):
> 	print self.__magic__
> 
> --> "mymethod"

Of course this is really evil, and only works in CPython (afaik), but here goes:

"""
import sys

def get_fn_name():
	return sys._getframe().f_back.f_code.co_name

def random_fn():
	print get_fn_name()

random_fn()
"""

sys._getframe() returns the current frame object.
f_back is a link to the frame object one high in the stack, which 
is the frame object of the calling function.
f_code is an object which basically describes the function related
to the current frame.
co_name is the name of the function.

I'm fairly sure this *isn't* a documented interface, (the '_' pretty much
indicates that), so it might not work in other implementation of python
or future versions of python.

If you want to hack some more do things like:

print dir(sys._getframe()) 
print dir(sys._getframe.f_code)

To have a look at what other interesting information you can get out
of the objects.

Benno


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Mon Nov 18 13:11:08 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 18:11:08 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de>
Message-ID: <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

> 
> I think the blurred boundaries between the core language and the library in
> Common Lisp are a big advantage.

Only in the sense that libraries and user defined functions/macros etc. don't
look any different from core language constructs. One problem with stuffing
everything fdirectly in the core is that it makes it very difficult to
supersede it and thus to grow the language. As a (maybe slightly inaccurate)
example, perl has regexps in the core, whereas python has an extra
library. When the python folks decided to upgrade their regular expression
syntax to something more powerful, all they had to do was to provide a new
library (re) and the old library (regex) is being slowly phased out. The perl
folks, however, are currently in the process of creating a completely new
language, partly to get rid of the old regexps.

Another related problem is that Common Lisp doesn't scale well. It is a big
and complex language and that's it. While this might be a big productivity win
for an experienced developer who can leverage a large collection of well
thought out standard functions, it makes it a bad choice for many other
scenarios (if you knew neight CL nor python, would you rather have your
application scripted in python or CL?). 

> 
> 
> To summarize some claims, some people say that Common Lisp is too big while
> some say that it is lacking in APIs. However, you can't say both things at the
> same time, this would be contradictory. If you want to try a Lispy language

I see no contradiction. Common lisp, compared to python, for example, is
lacking in libraries to achieve specific tasks needed for many real world
applications (such as GUIs, net protocols, text-processing, etc.), but comes,
unlike to python, with plenty of looping constructs including a Turing
complete format function, amongst other things. Now python programmers doing
Numerics don't have to worry about the SOAP module and vice versa for web
developers, whereas *all* CL programmers have to master loop, dolist, format
and whatever else lurks in cl:. Since specialized libraries for the task at
hand win out over more powerful language concepts, with CL you often have to
know much more in order to be able to do much less than with python.

That doesn't mean that python is generally better than CL, it just means that
people are not as irrational as lispers generally belief for often prefering
python over CL.

alex


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Thu Nov  7 04:17:19 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:17:19 +0100
Subject: Placing Tkinter objects in a dictionary
References: <3dc9fa87$1_4@nopics.sjc>
Message-ID: <aqdb2t$pc1$1@news.netpower.no>

"Adonis" <deltapigz at telocity.com> wrote in message
news:3dc9fa87$1_4 at nopics.sjc...
> I have a loop creating Tkinter objects (an Entry text box) all with the
same
> name and placing its instance in a dictionary: i.e:
>
> for x in range(10):
>     myEntry = Entry(frame)
>     myEntry.grid(row=x, column=0)
>
>     someDict['%s'%x] = myEntry
>
> now I have another function which will modify myEntry:
>
> def someFunc(x, data):
>     someDict[str(x)].config(text=data) # here is my error; the config does
> not work;
>                                        # no error is raised.
>
> any help is greatly appreciated.
>
> Adonis
>

Just as an asside (it's not related to your problem, which J?rgen has
addressed), why are you converting x to a string for the dictionary key, and
not just using someDict[x] directly?





From andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no  Sun Nov 24 08:59:55 2002
From: andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_N=E6ss?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:59:55 +0000
Subject: if <assignment>:
Message-ID: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no>

When I started learning Python one of the things that surprised me was that 
you couldn't do assignments inside the if clause, e.g.:

if myvar = someFunction():

My question is, what is the rationale for this? Is it a technical issue? Or 
purely a matter of language design? I'm curious because I'm interested in 
the design og programming languages, not because I want this behavior 
changed in Pyton :)

Thanks.
Andr? N?ss


  


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Thu Nov 14 18:17:05 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:17:05 -0800
Subject: PEP #99484663
In-Reply-To: <1037312181.3961.74.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>
References: <m2isz6ue4f.fsf@desk.crynwr.com> <418ab5dd.0211141031.48b7f0bf@posting.google.com> <1037312181.3961.74.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>
Message-ID: <200211142317.PAA13535@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Thursday 14 November 2002 14:16, Ian Bicking wrote:

> Intriguing.  I'm sure pychecker could add the check fairly easily,
> though most people will still program without delimiters.  I wouldn't
> mind making doubled-delimiters illegal, i.e.:
>
> def func():
>     return "something"
>     return "something else"

Instead, try writing:

def func():
    if 0: return "foo"
    else: return "bar"

rather than using commenting to switch between the two cases (for debugging, 
of course).  At least it is easier to strip these out later (rather than 
double, uncommented returns).  The parsing for your case could be non-trivial.

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Nov 23 10:31:32 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:31:32 -0600
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
In-Reply-To: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <15839.40788.472074.412988@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    TimR> Python Dicktatorshit.
    TimR> ?Connect? Looking up host "irc.debian.org"...
    TimR> ?Connect? Attempting connection to host "irc.freenode.net" (196.40.71.132) on port 6667...
    TimR> ?Connect? Connected. Now doing login...
    ... much blather deleted ...

What precisely does posting this have anything to do directly with Python?
So some of the people there act like children.  Go somewhere else to get
your Python fix.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 15 13:31:39 2002
From: ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 10:31:39 -0800
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <slrnat6car.1b3.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <8a27e309.0211151031.b98e1b3@posting.google.com>

I am surprised that no one has mentioned PythonCard.  I have only had
time to do the first tutorial, but I think it is quite promising. 
And, it is very cross platform.  Check it out here:

http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/


From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Sun Nov 24 13:59:04 2002
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:59:04 +0100
Subject: a % b == b when a is a very small negative number
References: <uu1uocd4db4be5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3de1229d$0$2233$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl>

Lee,

It may be overkill, but you might take a look at quaternions

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-October/067434.html

and/or represent the angle using both the sine and cosine.
Both ways allow to avoid the modulo operator.

Regards,
Ype


Lee Harr schreef:

> 
> I have some code which is storing the direction an object
> is moving, and I want to keep that value: 0 <= direction < 2*PI


From member at dbforums.com  Thu Nov 21 01:15:54 2002
From: member at dbforums.com (Tetsuo)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 06:15:54 +0000
Subject: Installation
References: <2066386.1037763461@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <2071422.1037859354@dbforums.com>

I am happy to inform all of you that everything is fixed. As I
suspected, previous installs were creating some kind of conflict. The
regular interpreter won't work anyway, but ActivePython works fine.

BTW, about the regular version. It used to work at one time, then just
stopped. The hard drive crackles, but nothing happens, not even a
message. I hoped upgrading to Win2K would help, but it didn't. Has this
happened to anyone before?

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com


From p.thibault at bigfoot.com  Fri Nov 22 00:41:47 2002
From: p.thibault at bigfoot.com (Pierre Thibault)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:41:47 -0500
Subject: IDLE on Mac OS 10.2.2
Message-ID: <p.thibault-08D329.00414622112002@news.videotron.net>

Hello,

I'm looking for help for IDLE on Mac OS X. I'dont where to start. I've 
download the IDLE for OS X but I am unable to start it. I have Mac OS 
10.2.2.

Could you help me?

Regards.

-------------------
Pierre


From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Nov 22 20:37:23 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:37:23 -0500
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
 <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org>
 <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
 <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <Tvt39kKkXMsb092yn@gnosis.cx>         

"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote previously:
|Probably the best counter example, of a language that emphasizes
|what I'm calling ``equational'' rather than procedural, is Haskell.
|It's the most prominent example of a ``non-strict, purely functional''
|programming language (``non-strict'' is a queer term that probably
|doesn't mean what you think.)

Haskell is really interesting.  It is a functional language that
nonetheless feels like it has the similar strengths and feel as Python.
Of course, I might be influenced in part by the superficial similarity
in syntax--both use indentation for blocks rather than noisy delimiter
symbols.

The term 'strict' has another antonym that is probably more useful:
'lazy'.  Of course, that word also has other meanings.  Almost all
imperative languages (procedural and OOP) are strict.  That is,
evaluating an expression involves evaluating every term in that
expression fully.  With lazy evaluation, only as much of an expression
as is needed is evaluated.  Boolean shortcutting is a limited example of
laziness; but Haskell goes much farther, basically everything is lazy.

For example, if you call a function, only those arguments that are
actually necessary to come up with the result are evaluated.  You do not
need to know in advance which arguments will be necessary, every
evaluation is deferred (but available) until it is actually used.

The even more striking example is with infinite lists.  You can easily
create a list with infinitely many items in Haskell... the trick is
that the specific membership is not calculated until a given item is
accessed.  For example, here is a way to calculate an infinite list of
every prime number.  As a bonus, the primality testing function
'isPrime' is thrown in:

    -- Define a list of ALL the prime numbers
    primes :: [Int]
    primes = sieve [2 .. ] -- Sieve of Eratosthenes
    sieve (x:xs) = x : sieve [y | y <- xs, (y `rem` x)/=0]
    -- Given an ordered list and a thing, is the thing in the list?
    memberOrd :: Ord a => [a] -> a -> Bool
    memberOrd (x:xs) n
      | x<n = memberOrd xs n
      | x==n = True
      | otherwise = False
    isPrime n = memberOrd primes n
    -- 'isPrime 37' is True
    -- 'isPrime 427' is False

The list comprehension statement should be familiar to Pythoneers, it
was an inspiration for the addition to Python.  The syntax is a little
closer to mathematics than Python's is, but it is easy to see the
similarity.

FWIW, generators in Python 2.2+ also allow a pretty easy way to
construct infinite lists.  They're not as automatically lazy as Haskell,
but you can get some of the same effects with a little more work.

Yours, Lulu...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Nov 29 08:05:56 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 08:05:56 -0500
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <ar9oqi$oil$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1037623768.14227.python-list@python.org> <arb8a0$rfm$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <as7onk$hp7$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <arb8a0$rfm$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>
>E.g., if you had a program that needs a lot of memory and does
>processing in distinct phases. Obviously you can split the job into
>separate programs that use temp files. But what if you want use memory
>to communicate between phases? E.g., load a module that retrieves
>data from the net, another that parses it and builds convenient data
>structures, another that requires an interactive GUI to classify
>visually presented data, another to create a backup of clean data and
>editing log, another to generate pdf reports, etc. etc.  The succeeding
>phases are going to suffer from memory squeeze if you can't unload
>modules that you no longer need.
>
>If you load a module that needs another, of course reference counting
>should work as it does, but when you unload a module explicitly, IMO it
>ought to be a bit like clearing a dict. A lot of references will get
>decremented, and some will go to zero. Why not a module's reference
>count, to let it disappear when no longer needed (or have it held in an
>LRU cache to be bumped as necessary)?

With the exception of C libraries, I'm not aware of any *modules* that
are such a memory drain, although they may store data that is a memory
drain.  And C libraries are going to be much harder to unload, to the
point that I'd bet Guido would quickly veto any such proposal.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Nov 19 17:17:03 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:17:03 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
In-Reply-To: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out how WaitCommEvent() works in Python,
> and it looks like there's a problem when it's used in
> overlapped mode.
> 
> My understanding is that (in C) you:
> 
>  1) Call WaitCommEvent() and give it three parameters:
>      * File handle
>      * a pointer to where the output mask value is to be stored
>      * a pointer to an overlapped struct
>     
>  2) WaitCommEvent() returns immediately.
> 
>  3) Call one of the WaitXXX() functions to wait on the event in
>     the overloapped struct.
> 
>  4) When the event is triggered WaitXXX() returns. Check the
>     value stored via the output mask pointer passed in 1)
>     above.
> 
> [I've gleaned most of this from
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/devio/base/waitcommevent.asp]

I don't think this last step is correct.  Certainly the link you posted 
doesn't say this is true.  Looking further, I can't find *anything* that 
implies this is true.

KB Q175551 has sample code for Windows CE that uses overlapped IO, and 
it examines the mask immediately after the call.

Further, if what you say is correct, I would expect Python COM port 
based programs to regularly crash!  In your scenario, by the time the 
overlapped function ended up writing to our mask variable, that address 
would be invalid.  However, it would be pretty close to the top of the 
stack, so I would expect it to corrupt whatever was running when the 
mask was actually written.  I know a number of people have used these 
APIs to do serious serial port control - either directly, or via another 
wrapper.  I would be very surprised we survived this long.

Can you find an explicit reference to this?

Mark.



From pieroul at attglobal.net  Tue Nov 26 23:05:34 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:05:34 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
Message-ID: <3DE4448E.5080201@attglobal.net>

I have been using Python for some pretty basic CGI scripts using the cgi 
module and the like on a simple http server running over the 
CGIHTTPServer.  I am now wondering if it would be possible to implement 
a complete GUI application available to a web browser and implemented in 
Python on the server side.

At first glance, http://www.python.org/topics/web/ does not seem to 
contain anything related to this.

What I'd like to be able to do is implement a complete GUI-based control 
application (with buttons, slider, whatever widgets the app needs) 
accessible over the web.

Is this possble with Python?  If so, where the best place to start looking?

Thanks!

-- 
         Pierre Rouleau




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov  5 17:46:31 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:46:31 -0800
Subject: exec '' in {}    what does this do?
References: <usghe23e6gel34@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3DC84A47.6DA281C3@alcyone.com>

Lee Harr wrote:

> I thought "in" checked to see if a key was in the dict,
> I do not understand why this inserts anything in to the dict.

exec S in D simply executes the statement S with the dictionary D as its
globals.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ After a thousand years or so you go native.
\__/ Camden Benares
    PyUID / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/uid/
 A module for generating "unique" IDs in Python.


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Nov  8 23:49:55 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 04:49:55 GMT
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <918bc22f.0211061829.2d94e681@posting.google.com> <aqco2l$q2f$0@216.39.172.122> <918bc22f.0211070403.18e19850@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Tt0z9.2287$Aq5.241565@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Donnal Walter wrote:
> program. Of course it would be difficult to market a spreadsheet, and
> I have had no desire to consider it. I also have no desire to release
> it as open source, as long as it is in the form of a spreadsheet. But
> my point is simply that this is the kind of application that cries out
> for *some kind* of open source distribution. On the other hand, most
> of the applications we have in mind have more to do with organizing
> information than with performing calculations.

Yep: "high use-value, low-sale-value" fits Eric Raymond's analysis anyway.

> Incidentally, there is (now) a commercial product available to do this
> task, and it carries a disclaimer that the user is responsible for
> verifying the accuracy of output. Of course, the source code is not
> available for us to look at.

I like the idea that *full-disclosure* should be a defense against
liability claims.  Because it seems fair to me that if I can find out
fully how something works, it's reasonable for me to take
responsibility for it.

I think the thing to realize about open-source versus closed-source
for reliability is that using closed source may reduce your responsibility
-- i.e. you can pass the blame onto the source of the software more
easily if it fails and kills somebody.  But it doesn't do anything to
reduce the actual chance of it killing somebody. In fact, the "fewer
eyeballs" effect -- an indirect, but definite correlation to being closed-
source -- probably *increases* the actual risk.

Or to put it another way -- no amount of life insurance will save your
life. Wear a seatbelt instead.

For people who *really* care about safety (as opposed to liability), 
open-source is usually going to be a good choice.  That's because
there's just no practical way to get so many people to check closed-
source code.  I'd like to think that when the stakes are life and limb,
that people *are* more concerned about safety than liability.

I think this is the reasoning behind the military and data security
folks who argue for using open-source code. Certainly it was not
an obvious result. I think it started because a lot of users had a
feeling that open-source code was more reliable without actually
knowing why. Then I remember there were some articles talking
about proving it by running the Gnu utilities and the control
group of commercial Unix utilities against random data and counting
the crashes. It was only after that that I started seeing arguments
for *why* this should be so. (IIRC -- other people may remember
this differently, I certainly don't have references). 

It was certainly a revelation for me -- I guess I'm a "free-software 
convert".

> David Brown:
>> Have you considered whether Python is really a suitable
>> language for this job?  It is probably ideal for your first
>> project, but not necessarily for the second one.  Python
>> makes it easy to write great software, but it also makes it
>> easy to make mistakes which can only be found at run-time.

Really, though, the software should be extensively tested at the
run-time level, anyway.   Also, the real question is "what happens
if it does break?".  In this case, it sounds like a pharmacist checks
it anyway. If it's too far out of bounds (i.e. deadly), they're going
to catch it right-away (humans are good at that). If it's subtly
wrong, it probably won't kill anybody -- medicine isn't *that*
precise.  I remember being somewhat shocked at how imprecisely
pharmaceutical units are defined or measured (how big is a "drop"?).

And as the OP points out, the accuracy ratio is better compared
to hand-calculation anyway, so while some hypothetical ADA-based
solution might be even more reliable, it seems like the problem
is getting solved.

Cheers,
Terry



-- 
Anansi Spaceworks
http://www.anansispaceworks.com


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Fri Nov  1 02:29:46 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 01 Nov 2002 09:29:46 +0200
Subject: How to use new email package to read a mailbox?
References: <yu99hef2v370.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <ku8z0diw7p.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <yu99hef2v370.fsf at europa.research.att.com>, Andrew Koenig
<ark at research.att.com> writes:

| The documentation for the mailbox package says that the default behavior
| of class UnixMailbox is to use rfc822.Message to create messages.
| However, rfc822 is noted as deprecated.

UnixMailbox has an optional factory argument, i think you
can pass email.message_from_file there.

  -- erno


From christian.stockhammer at students.uni-linz.ac.at  Thu Nov  7 09:31:59 2002
From: christian.stockhammer at students.uni-linz.ac.at (news.liwest.at)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:31:59 +0100
Subject: just a little program
Message-ID: <1036679049.891080@news.liwest.at>

Hello List!

I'm a student and i got a homework i just cannot solve: (I study economics,
so i'm absolutley out of programing)

We have to write code that will do the following:

You just put in any number and the program will multiply and divide this
number from 2 to 9

This is how it should look like:

        13 *  2
        26 *  3
        78 *  4
       312 *  5
      1560 *  6
      9360 *  7
     65520 *  8
    524160 *  9
   4717440 :  2
   2358720 :  3
    786240 :  4
    196560 :  5
     39312 :  6
      6552 :  7
       936 :  8
       117 :  9
        13

We have to define an own function like def something(input) and it should be
solved with a for-loop

Any help would be appreciated

Cheers and greetings from Austria








From christophe.delord at free.fr  Wed Nov 13 16:09:49 2002
From: christophe.delord at free.fr (Christophe Delord)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:09:49 +0100
Subject: Graham's spam filter
Message-ID: <20021113220949.2daa7540.christophe.delord@free.fr>

Hello,

There was discussion on this group about spam filtering using Graham's
filter. I'm surely not the first to do it but I found the exercise
interesting and I wrote my own filter. My filter is still very young (and
maybe not very stable) but it is efficient (on my little spam corpus I
only miss 5 per 100 spams. I know I'm far from Graham's results). So those
who are interested (and adventurous) can find it here:
http://christophe.delord.free.fr/en/popf

This filter is yet another POP3 proxy, uses an automatic white list (ie
the list of people the user has sent emails before) and is fast enough to
be used on a personal computer (it doesn't accept multiple connections at
the same time but you can have multiple POP3 accounts). The filter decodes
base64 attachments too. When a spam is detected, the subject is tagged and
the mail client has to be configured to move those tagged spams in the
spam corpus.

Of course it is written in Python ;-) I'm using it on Linux, don't know if
it work with windows.

Best regards,
Christophe.






-- 

(o_   Christophe Delord                   _o)
//\   http://christophe.delord.free.fr/   /\\
V_/_  mailto:christophe.delord at free.fr   _\_V


From gminick at hacker.pl  Sat Nov 30 12:11:17 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:11:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Newbie Question: Aborting a Python script
References: <MPG.1852449355ffd522989685@news.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaui9om.14a.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Sat, 30 Nov 2002 03:44:51 -0600, Tom Nunamaker napisa?(a):
> How do you stop a script during execution?  Do I have to throw an error 
> like a divide by zero?  I didn't see any abort, stop, halt, etc type of 
> function.

>>> import sys,os
>>> print sys.exit.__doc__
exit([status])

Exit the interpreter by raising SystemExit(status).
If the status is omitted or None, it defaults to zero (i.e., success).
If the status is numeric, it will be used as the system exit status.
If it is another kind of object, it will be printed and the system
exit status will be one (i.e., failure).
>>> print os._exit.__doc__
_exit(status)
Exit to the system with specified status, without normal exit processing.

HTH.
-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 14 15:18:53 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:18:53 GMT
Subject: __slots__ and metaclasses
References: <73b00f0c.0211141124.1540cc98@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <NyTA9.13660$Yw.563200@news2.tin.it>

Robert Ferrell wrote:

> How can I set the __slots__ attribute for a class in the classes
> metaclass?  I tried adding:
> 
>     setattr(cls, '__slots__', __slots__)
> 
> to the __init__ method in the metaclass, but that did not work.  Is
> what I'm trying to do even possible?  I've read what I could find
> about metaclasses and __slots__, and I've mostly got the metaclasses
> working for me.  But I'm stuck on this one point.  Any help/pointers

See, for example:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=0qZV8.51942%24vm5.1927874%40news2.tin.it


Alex




From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Nov 12 05:44:37 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:44:37 -0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote in

> Of course I agree that the standard Docbook DTD wouldn't be sufficient
> and would need to be extended.
> 

Could you be more specific on this please?
Docbook's purpose is to document  software, so if you've
found a shortfall, I'm sure the docbook group would be interested in
filling any such gaps?
  What sort of extensions?

regards DaveP.



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Nov  6 12:31:39 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:31:39 -0600 
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302C81D04@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl [mailto:anton at vredegoor.doge.nl]
> 
> ...
> There also is the option of completely giving away all rights to the
> code -placing it in the public domain- which can be compared to having
> no defense at all, like "turning the other cheek"...
>
> AV. 
>

I might be wrong, but in the US, and other countries I believe,
you cannot disclaim your author's rights, or somehing like that,
which means that even if you say "I place it in the public
domain", it doesn't actually become "Public Domain" in the
true sense of it, but more like "Freely Distributable", but
very much yours.  So, you *are* legally vulnerable to claims
and attacks.

So there is a need for a license to permit free distribution,
disclaim any responsability upon use of the software, "you're
on your own, you're getting your dollar's worth in support,
etc etc".

:-/

sux.

-gustavo



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov  6 22:52:53 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 03:52:53 GMT
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk> <aqajfv$qqr$1@news.netpower.no> <918bc22f.0211060732.47b2198d@posting.google.com> <aqbifg$6qd$1@news.hccnet.nl> <918bc22f.0211061829.2d94e681@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqco2l$q2f$0@216.39.172.122>

On 6 Nov 2002 18:29:13 -0800, donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter) wrote:

>"Anton Vredegoor" :
>> To me it isn't that simple. From my perspective
>> the GPL is using the same kind of "weapons" to
>> defend it's followers against the "evil"
>> closed sourcerers.
>
>> Using the same kind of weapons as the enemy risks
>> becoming oneself that what is feared. I think this is
>> meant by "not resisting evil" and "turning the other
>> cheek" and such ideas as one can find in the old books.
>
>As the OP, I did not intend to start yet another flame war regarding
>the merits and/or evils of "copyleft". I was merely puzzled by the
>fact that the Python License is on the list of acceptable licenses one
>can choose for a SourceForge project, but I couldn't figure out how I
>could use the PSF License without modification. Martin confirmed the
>fact that I can't. It appears, then, that a number of developers
>simply use "Python License" as a well-understood synonym for BSD-style
>license, which is fine with me. But I figure I might as well say what
>I mean, so my options are GPL or BSD, the relative merits
>notwithstanding.
>
>Having said this, I see both as valid options in my situation. I am
>working on two different kinds of projects. The first project is to
>develop a kind of toolset and notation for building custom clinical
>applications. I had planned to use the PSF License and now plan to use
>the BSD license for this project, as I want to encourage its
>widespread use by not using a restrictive license. I only hope that
>*some* of its users give me valuable feedback about how to make the
>toolset better. If other users want to use the toolset for other
>purposes, I only ask that not hold me liable if it doesn't work as
>they expected, etc.
>
>The other project, however, involves using this toolset/notation to
>build a set of clinical applications for newborn intensive care. In
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[1]
>this case, I truly do want to be restrictive. If others derive
                    ^^[2]
>products from this project, I want the derived products to be open
>source as well. In saying this, I don't view myself as being hateful
>or vindictive or as fighting evil. I simply want to encourage
>individuals and companies who build on these applications to give
>their products back to the pediatric community. So, for the second
>project, I am strongly inclined toward GPL.
>
Your motivations would seem laudable, but when it comes to babies who are very
vulnerable to mistakes [1] I would hate to think of, e.g., an IV dosage
or flow rate accidentally computed with the wrong kind of division.

I would hope that you would concern yourself at least as much about using
restrictions [2] to ensure that well-meaning but inadequately tested
"contributions" don't get used by other well-meaning but perhaps not so
software-QA-issue-aware folks.

I would think also that you are skirting very close to a whole raft of laws
meant to protect those under medical care from deficient devices or procedures,
and some of those probably override attempts to avoid liability. IANAL, but
my guess is you might want to talk to one to get the real scoop.

I.e., there (I hope) must be more of a threshhold to pass before using
software in the pediatric community than googling and accepting the
NO WARRANTY conditions, unless it's for games in the waiting room or
other non-critical uses. But newborn intensive care?? ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From roberson at ibd.nrc.ca  Fri Nov  8 02:24:18 2002
From: roberson at ibd.nrc.ca (Walter Roberson)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 07:24:18 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <aqbe90$85d$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <aqbimo$a36$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqfor2$cv5$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>

In article <aqbimo$a36$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>, Frodo Morris  <""> wrote:
:Perdantick bast.  :-)

Hmmm, according to OED, "bast" means "sanctuary, refuge, asylum".

:Imagine if parrot could understand all currently- and popularly- 
:implemented interpreted languages.

Such as Forth, Word Perfect Macros, Microsoft Visual Basic,
and Befunge?? (You haven't been very specific on the meaning of
'popularly'.)


Now, Parrot is intended for interpreted languages, right? And
the fundamental feature of such languages is that you should
be able to compute a string and then execute the string as
a statement. So Parrot will have to know how to execute statements
in arbitrary source languages. This means that it isn't enough
to have a (say) bash-to-parrot translator that translates
the program and hands it off to parrotd: the entire translator
is going to have to be input along with the translated source.

This indirectly raises an interesting point. If parrotd is glued into
the operating system as part of exec() as has been proposed (as opposed
to the counter proposal to just liet #!  do its standard job) then the
implication is that there is only one parrot implimentation per system.
How would one then test new versions of Parrot? With #! it's easy: you
just name the path to the alternative interpreter and the kernel
invokes it. But if parrotd is built right into exec() then in order to
support multiple versions of Parrot, you would have to build the new
versions -in- Parrot and pass them in as yet another layer of
interpreter. e.g., parrotd version 6.302 is running and it has been
passed a copy of the bash2parrot 4.19 translator in case it needs to
interpret a computed string that invokes a program that needs to layer
on the experimental parrotd 6.4.9 interpreter that has to be passed the
perl2parrot translator in case it needs to interpret a computed string
that invokes a program that needs to have -another copy- of parrotd
6.302 layered on [you can't count on parrotd 6.4.9 running parrotd
6.302 programs the same way that parrotd 6.302 would run them] that has
the <etc.> interpeter layered on to run <etc.>.

Scheme is right at home at dealing with these kinds of layering issues,
using a process called "reflection" [well developed by Brian Reid and
Jeem Desriviers]. They aren't straight-forward issues: think about
debugging, and think about re-entrancy, and think about problems in
cross-layer pollution -- you don't want a wild pointer in the fifth
layer down to affect your third layer, right?


Speaking of layers: I take it that some thought has been put into
how to do operating-system escapes? So that one can (for example)
handle graphics? Or even just sockets? Seeing as some of the most popular
interpreted languages are by no means restricted to text-only
and have networking capabilities? But of course the appropriate calls
could come within one of the computed strings, so any escape cannot
be absolute and must instead be handled via the interpretation layer
(c.f. the above in which I showed that parrotd must be built in
Parrot if you want parrotd to be handled at the exec() level...)
--
   "The human genome is powerless in the face of chocolate."
   -- Dr. Adam Drewnowski


From questions at smartcardware.com  Sun Nov 24 14:28:44 2002
From: questions at smartcardware.com (smartcardware.com)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 11:28:44 -0800
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2a001b6.0211241128.3d1ff56@posting.google.com>

Thanks for everyones replies and input.  I guess what I really meant
by not being able to embed python was the following.  Basically the
following is the gist of my post:

"I've coded apps that have used TCL, Perl, and Python as embedded
scriptling languages. TCL was OK but provided no object oriented
features, the Perl object model leaves much to be desired, and
Python's internal object structure requires translating your ojects
into python objects.

My recent research shows that Javascript is by far and away the best
option for a scripting engine. Object access is via accessor methods
in most implementations, so you just have to add a few methods to your
object to make them JS compatible. JS syntax is of course very much
like Java and C++, making the language accessable to a broad range of
programmers.

Since all object access is via accessor methods, implementing
functions usuable by the JS code doesnt introduce double translation
issues like Python does (C++ code passes translated object to python,
python code calls back into C++ which must instance a new object and
translate it to be usable YUK !!

JS is just passing the object around as a JSObject base class
instance, which you can access the real type of the object, and then
cast to your working class"

As I said this was from someone else, and not my opinion or statement.
 Basically the parts of the above message I'm concerned with are as
follows:

"Python's internal object structure requires translating your ojects
into python objects."

and

"double translation issues like Python does (C++ code passes
translated object to python, python code calls back into C++ which
must instance a new object and translate it to be usable YUK !!"

As said before, any and all information would be greatly appreciated!

Venn


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Nov  6 20:39:56 2002
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 18:39:56 -0700
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <3dc3dc4e$0$12762$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <aq1235$h36$1@reader1.tiscali.nl> <vR1y9.45$8%5.8453@news.optus.net.au> <aqbuoc$rrp$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <3DC9C46C.3020002@mindspring.com>

GerritM wrote:
> I share the same expectation. It would be nice to have some more factual
> comparison of larger application(s). The shootout site
> http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/ does a great job in comparing "small"
> well defined problems. In general Python scores well in expressiveness
> (=small amount of loc), but not as much as factors 2 or higher.

There are some small-to-medium scale problems as part of PLEAC

    http://pleac.sourceforge.net/

Hmm.  I haven't contributed Python code in over a year, but it's
still in second place.  Ruby is almost caught up.  Maybe I should
work on things a bit more -- or anyone else here?  :)

> It would be interesting to know if our expectations are realistic for large
> applications, or only hopes. I have seen many oversold technologies, which
> don't pass a more factual comparison.

This is a hard comparison.  Anything "large" means it takes a
lot of money or time, and not worth the effort to repeat in another
language when there are no new features.

					Andrew
					dalke at dalkescientific.com



From maney at pobox.com  Mon Nov 25 23:03:34 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:03:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>   <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arrijv$kap$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <1038199757.350382@yasure> <tyf4ra5zrli.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <artpln$cbe$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aru86p$9q5$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <arurqm$cgu$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> wrote:
> maney at pobox.com wrote:
>> support) made much more convenient.  This is Monday, so today I'll say
>> it was the former, handwaving; on Tuesdays I prefer the metaphor as
>> pedagogical device.  And so it goes through the week...
> 
> Do I sense some irony here? ;)

You know the joke about how to reconcile the dual nature of light? 
Let's see... ah, yes, I can at least make the form topical!

    # setup
    light = {
        'Monday': 'particle',
        'Tuesday': 'wave',
        'Wednesday': 'particle',
        'Thursday': 'wave',
        'Friday': 'particle',
        'Saturday': 'wave'
    }

    #punchline
    light['Sunday'] = 'luminiferous ether'

You're right, though, I didn't quite hit the target with "handwaving". 
Bad vibes from all the overdone hype of years gone by skewed that part
of the description, I'm afraid.


From id5id5 at seed.net.tw  Sun Nov 10 09:17:35 2002
From: id5id5 at seed.net.tw (ID5)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 06:17:35 -0800
Subject: Tkinter listbox selection handling
References: <co6kqa.tqk2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <d2122411.0211100617.520bfff5@posting.google.com>

Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote in message news:<co6kqa.tqk2.ln at boundary.tundraware.com>...
> Then I add a handler:
> 
> UI.listbox.bind('<button-1>', handlerfunc)
> 
> All this works fine up to a point.  However, inside handlerfunc(), if I do
> a UI.listbox.selection_get(,) I get the *previously* selected item back,
> not the currently selected item.  This is also the case if I try using
> UI.listbox.curselection().
> 
> I've worked around this by trashing the idea of an event handler and
> polling the widget regularly looking for changes, but that is a really
> ugly solution... This was suggested in some of my reading because there
> is no 'command' attribute for a Listbox.
> 
> So, am I missing something here? *Is* there a way to use events to
> pickup the currently selected Listbox item, or am I stuck doing it with
> polling?

Try this:

def handlerfunc(Index):
        NewIndex = UI.listbox.nearest(Index.y)
        print UI.listbox.get(NewIndex)

ID5~~


From jwbaxter at spamcop.net  Wed Nov  6 17:41:25 2002
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.net (John Baxter)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:41:25 -0800
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list@python.org> <slrnasj332.v3h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <jwbaxter-E8FADF.14412506112002@corp-radius.supernews.com>

In article <slrnasj332.v3h.jon+usenet at snowy.squish.net>,
 Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:

> I don't really like the idea of hacking around with the warning
> module, so I guess I'll replace 0x80000000 with (-0x7fffffff-1) which
> won't generate a warning on any version of Python and will work on all
> versions... I think ;-)

64bit integers?

  --John


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Thu Nov 21 17:55:10 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:55:10 -0800
Subject: static variables?
In-Reply-To: <3DDD556B.3936A6AE@alcyone.com>
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xQWdnY8p3JLag0CgXTWcog@comcast.com> <3DDD556B.3936A6AE@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <200211212255.OAA25247@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Thursday 21 November 2002 13:51, Erik Max Francis wrote:

> I was simply pointing that it was not beyond the realm of possibility to
> have it behave as most newbies expect.  The reason it's done the way it
> is is because it's the simplest implementation; there really aren't any
> higher, more laudable goals involved.

Actually, I think you are wrong.  It is done the way it is done for 
consistency.  It may also have been the easiest to implement (simply because 
it *IS* the most consistent and inconsistencies naturally lead to more code), 
but I doubt it would have been THAT much harder to implement invariant 
default arguments, if it had been considered important.  I think it just 
wasn't recognized as a significant problem (and indeed, it is a debatable 
one).

However, I do agree that, on the whole, the current behavior probably strikes 
most users as surprising at first, even when it is understood to be the 
expected behavior.  Most people would probably want their default arguments 
to be invariant from call to call (which would entail more overhead, I hasten 
to add, since objects might have to be created for each call).

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov 11 07:15:03 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:15:03 +1100
Subject: writing from file into dictionary
In-Reply-To: <%jMz9.16299$Bs5.574932@news1.tin.it>
References: <186229a7.0211110211.7c639dc@posting.google.com> <%jMz9.16299$Bs5.574932@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <200211112315.03489.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:16, Alex Martelli wrote:
<snip>
> Assuming the trailing colon at the end of the 'rewrite' part
> (and anything following it, such as the comment in the last
> line) is to be removed; and that corresponding to each head
> you want a list of the possible rewrites for that head;
>
Can I try an explanation?

> grammardict = {}
This creates a dictionary, and provides a references that dictionary, which is 
"grammardict". We'll need this later.

> for line in open('thefile'):
open() is another name for file() in 2.2
When used this way, open() or file(), takes a default of opening in read only 
mode, with unbuffered I/O.
open() returns a file object, which the for loop iterates over. This magic 
iteration only works on later versions of python (ie not 1.5.2 :). When and 
if the iteration does work, the name "line" refers to each line in the file.

>     head, rewrite = line.split(':',2)[:2]
"line.split(':'.2)" means to create a list of up to three items from the text 
referenced by "line", by taking all the characters up to the delimiting colon 
(":"). We need a list of three items to avoid the second colon being attached 
to the second item.
Having got our list of three items, we create a slice consisting of the first 
two items. This sliced list is then unpacked into two variables - "head" and 
"rewrite". You could also use:
head, rewrite = filter(None, line.split(':',2))
but I guess that is less efficient, otherwise Alex would have used it.

>     grammardict.setdefault(head, []).append(rewrite)
This searches the dictionary refered to by "grammarlist" for an list that is 
keyed by a string equal to "head", creating an empty list entry if it doesn't 
already exist. The "append" part then operates on the string referred to by 
the "rewrite" variable, adding it to the (possibly empty) list keyed by 
"head".
To rephrase:
If grammardict does not include any entry keyed by "head", then an entry is 
created, consisting of an empty list. "rewrite" is then appended to that 
empty list, creating a dictionary entry of head:[rewrite].
If grammardict does include an entry keyed by "head", then "rewrite" is 
appended to the existing list, resulting in a dictionary entry of head: [ 
existing, rewrite].

How close is this?

Brad


- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk  Mon Nov 11 13:17:06 2002
From: graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk (Frodo Morris)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:17:06 +0000
Subject: [OT] Cameras (was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme
 aren't?)
In-Reply-To: <aqhata$ctr$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqgka6$t8j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqh2bo$7ti$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <aqh745$1iv$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqhata$ctr$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <aqos3v$haf$1@news.ox.ac.uk>

Fernando P?rez wrote:
> P&S cameras are ok, but their _control_ is fairly limited to none. Some (like 
> the Oly Stylus Epic) have excellent optics, others have crappy optics (pretty 
> much all zoom cameras, you just can't make a decent zoom of that size, 
> physics gets in the way). 

Yes you can - the lenses are called telephoto (because the focal planes 
lie outside the optics - a common misconception is that a 'telephoto' is 
any old zoom lens).  I agree you'd probably get something akin to the 
fisheye effect around the edges, but it'd still work :-)

-- 
FM



From shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  9 14:51:15 2002
From: shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com (Richard Dillingham)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 19:51:15 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7h31y5uyj81.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <slrnasqf9a.mjr.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <qVcz9.25108$6b.985891@news2.east.cox.net> <3DCD6038.7E6EC76B@kolumbus.fi>
Message-ID: <TGdz9.25269$6b.996605@news2.east.cox.net>

> > (if (a)
> >     (if (b)
> >         (if (c)
> >             (asdf)
> >             (zzzz)
> >         )
> >         (foo)
> >     )
> >     (bar)
> > )
> >
>
> (if (a)
>     (if (b)
>         (if (c)
>             (asdf)
>    (zzzz))
>       (foo))
>   (bar))
>
> Would be the normal way to write this.
>
> --

I know, but I personally find the way I wrote it to be easier to read.
You'll also note that I didn't use the normal C coding standard in the C
examples, and instead used the Java/C# standard (Which I prefer).

The normal C way to use {}s being:

if (a)
{
 asdf;
}

etc.




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Nov 18 23:03:29 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:03:29 -0600
Subject: classifier systems re-coded in Python?
In-Reply-To: <dwiC9.53310$Lg2.15307128@news2.news.adelphia.net>
References: <mailman.1037670692.6438.python-list@python.org>
        <182dnaFhsdyUN0SgXTWcrg@comcast.com>
        <dwiC9.53310$Lg2.15307128@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <15833.47121.68538.564403@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Robert> Is google() a real command from some Python module, or were you
    Robert> just being Programmer-ish? If it's from a module, is it
    Robert> PyGoogle, or something else?

Terry was probably just being programmer-ish, but what he implied isn't hard
to do.  I have a google shell script:

    #!/bin/bash
    args=`echo $@ | /Users/skip/local/bin/quote`
    open 'http://www.google.com/search?q='$args'&sourceid=opera&num=25&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8'

("open" is a MacOSX command.  On other Unix-ish systems you might replace it
with "netscape -remote" or something similar.)

The quote command is

    #!/usr/bin/env python
    import urllib, sys
    sys.stdout.write(urllib.quote_plus(sys.stdin.read()))

At the shell prompt I can execute

    google holland learning classifier python

and have the search pop up in my default browser.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Tue Nov 19 12:19:36 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:19:36 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <44d4f61c.0211181708.465f5838@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DDA7385.2020609@nyc.rr.com>


Greg Neumann wrote:

> There are two things which make me cringe.  1) When a Pythonista
> complains about allergies to strange delimiters, and 2) when a Lisper
> calls other languages too slow.

The numbers I hear are that CL runs on average 20% slower than C. In 
some cases faster or as fast. Sounds fast to me, esp given the 
expressive power one gets from CL.

otoh, it is easy to screw up and write incredibly slow Lisp, and I 
myself do that from time to time. But then I just use the built-in TIME 
function to find out where and fix my howler.

i'll also concede that to get good numeric performance one needs to add 
declarations one can normally leave out.

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Nov 14 05:06:47 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (maxm)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:06:47 +0100
Subject: Guilty secret: globals baffle me
References: <3U9y9.19300$ko1.2872530@kent.svc.tds.net>
Message-ID: <3DD375B7.9000204@mxm.dk>

Edward K. Ream wrote:
> The more I think about global variables, the more confused I get.

You should probably use a singleton pattern instead. Look up the Borg 
pattern by Alex Martelli in the online verison of the Python Cookbook.

regards Max M



From brian_ at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  4 00:42:11 2002
From: brian_ at yahoo.com (Brian Lenihan)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:42:11 -0800
Subject: import Image vs from PIL import Image vs import PIL.Image
References: <aq4uo1$68o$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <MPG.182fa8894c1bdc50989685@news.nw.centurytel.net>

In article <aq4uo1$68o$0 at 216.39.172.122>, bokr at oz.net says...
> I backtracked and took alternate routes and hacked here and there on the way
> to the goal, so there were probably numerous places where something could have
> gone wrong, but it seems to work if -- and here's where my question comes in --
> I put 'from PIL ' in front of the import statements in documentation examples.

The examples assume you have a PIL.pth file in site-packages.

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import Image
>>> Image.core
<module '_imaging' from 'C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\PIL_imaging.pyd'>
>>> 

C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages>cat PIL.pth
PIL


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Wed Nov 20 18:18:44 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:18:44 -0800
Subject: string encoding problem
In-Reply-To: <Xns92CCEFC7BE7BBroblochefrst@213.228.0.32>
References: <Xns92CCEFC7BE7BBroblochefrst@213.228.0.32>
Message-ID: <200211202318.PAA26942@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Wednesday 20 November 2002 14:34, Rodolphe wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> I've got the very short code :
>
> import tkSimpleDialog
> str = tkSimpleDialog.askstring('Bug','Say something...')
> print str
>
> And when I run it and enter a string containing accented characters (like
> "fen?tre"), I've got this :
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

Since Martin already answered, I'll just provide a link which I found 
helpful:

http://www.reportlab.com/i18n/python_unicode_tutorial.html

Furthermore, I want to let you know that using 'str' as a variable name is 
not advised, since it masks the builtin str() constructor (which at first 
glance I thought might be related to your problem).  For throwaway string 
variables, I often just use 's'.

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From codeguru at hp.com  Thu Nov 14 12:44:00 2002
From: codeguru at hp.com (djw)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:44:00 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ar0nb0$67a$1@news.vcd.hp.com>

M wrote:

> Dear Python Community,
>
> I use Python in several projects. One of the main benefits of doing
> so is that my programmers can quickly learn Python and get productive.
> Python is a great language to read. Very seldom does one of my programmers
> missunderstand code somebody else have written. This is one, if not 
> the most,
> important aspect of a great language. Most of the time are spent in 
> reading
> code while adding a new module (to see where it should fit) or fixing
> bugs. And by definition, for a non-trivial application, this is code that
> somebody else wrote.
>
> The ability to produce readable code is one of the best things with 
> Python.
>
> Python more or less forces you to write nice code. This is a good 
> thing. Not
> an issue when you are a single programmer on a project. But when you 
> have a
> bunch of programmers with different skills this is great.
>
>
> But I see a disturbing trend.
>
> Just a few examples...
> The new enumerate or zip function. If you look at the code using this 
> function
> it is not at all obvious what the code does. Let say a programmer that 
> knows
> 10 other languages looks at this code. I don't think he would right away
> understand what this function does. This construct is not obvious. 
> Generators
> are another thing that are just horrible. They just don't work in a way
> that one would expect from previous experience.
>
> I understand that one will like to add features to a language in order to
> make it more powerfull. But I argue that this must be done in a way so 
> that
> programmers of *different skill levels* will understand the code. C++ 
> is one
> horrible example of a very powerfull language that very few people 
> actually
> understands fully. It takes years to fully understand C++, where does this
> leave time to think about architecture and algorithms?
>
> And no, you can't just say that these constructs should never be used. It
> won't work! Every language feature will eventually be used by somebody.
> Just look at the C++ world. Full of guidelines how to avoid doing things
> that nobody will understand anyway. And full of code that breaks these
> guidelines.
>
> I hope this is not a start of adding powerfull and hard to understand
> features to Python.
>
> Cheers
> /Marv

If Python was the same as all other languages (thus making it easy for a 
programmer to easily understand it), it would be like all other 
languages (that is to say, not very useful). What makes it special is 
that it has powerful constructs that other languages lack. When I first 
looked at Python code, I didn't have a clue that {}'s meant a dictionary 
and that [::] was a slice operator. After learning these, they become 
natural. What I worry about is not things that seem wierd at first, but 
things that continue to feel wierd over time and force me to grab the 
documentation every time I try to use it (example, the dictionary 
setdefault() method. I have to look that sucker up every time. Also, 
"".join() always seems wierd.)  Stuff like generators, list 
comprehensions, etc... languages like C++ don't have these things, why 
would you expect a C++ programmer to get them? As long as _Python_ 
programmers find it natural, why should we care if C++ programmers 
don't? 8^)

Just my $0.02,

/d/



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Sat Nov 23 01:12:53 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:12:53 -0600
Subject: Python and gd library
References: <HrvD9.42612$744.1519497@news1.tin.it> <20021122224754.GA621@lilith.ghaering.test>
Message-ID: <004701c292b7$5fd59ae0$ba01010a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard.haering at gmx.de>


> * Antonio.P <antonio.p at libero.it> [2002-11-22 19:20 +0000]:
> > Hi to all
> > Is there some integration in Python of the GD graphics library?
> > http://www.boutell.com/gd/
>
> This question is easily answered by using a search engine:
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=python+gd
>

Hey, I'm on top of the list!  Cool!  :-)

Antonio complains about poor quality output.  If he's producing
JPEG output, he probably won't like it... the underlying GD
module produces smudged-looking JPEG files.  I always produce
PNG output when I use the gdmodule.

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net




From rainer at cs.uu.nl  Mon Nov  4 04:51:19 2002
From: rainer at cs.uu.nl (Rainer Malik)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 01:51:19 -0800
Subject: urllib ??
Message-ID: <9782a2ed.0211040151.db070a3@posting.google.com>

hi ! 
i have a rather simple problem using urllib to POST something to a
server. my script looks like this:
def query_polyphen():

    d={ }
    d['InputQuerySequence']='>GGG \012 sequence'
    d['Var1']='C'
    d['InputQueryPosition']='282'
    d['Var2']='Y'
    d['Dbase3d']='pqs'
    d['SortByIde']='1'
    d['Map2Mismatch']='0'
    d['StructAllHits']='0'
    d['ContAllHits']='0'
    d['MinHitLen']='100'
    d['MinHitIde']='0.5'
    d['MaxHitGaps']='20'
    d['ContThresh']='6'
    d['.cgifields']='ContAllHits'
    d['.cgifields']='SortByIde'
    d['.cgifields']='StructAllHits'
    d['.cgifields']='Map2Mismatch'
    d['.cgifields']='Dbase3d'
    query=urllib.urlencode(d)
    url = 'http://tux.embl-heidelberg.de/ramensky/polyphen.cgi'
    results = urllib.urlopen(url,query).read()
    open ('/import/enterprise/home/rainer/test.html','w').write(results)


the problem i have is the following: when i call this script, i just
get the main HP of the server with the values filled in the correct
fields. but what i miss is the 'pressing of the submit button', so
that i will get the result from the server. i have no idea how this
should work.

Rainer


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Nov  8 16:03:01 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:03:01 -0600 
Subject: complicated class question
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D03DE1@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Alex Martelli [mailto:aleax at aleax.it]
> 
> Fred Clift wrote:
>    ...
> > class a:
> >     def foo(self):
> >         print "hi"
> > 
> > 
> > class b:
> >     def bar(self):
> >         ainst = a()
> >         ainst.foo()
> > 
> > 
> > say that a is defined in a system library and that b is in 
> > a 3rd party library.
> 
> Then presumably you have, in thirdparty.py:
> 
> import syslib
> class b:
>     def bar(self):
>         ainst = syslib.a()
>         ainst.foo()
> 
> right?  So basically all you need to ensure before you import 
> thirdparty that ITS import of syslib will get YOUR tweaked version
> of module syslib, and there you are.
> 
> So for example you'll have in mysyslib.py:
> 
> import syslib as true_syslib
> class a(true_syslib.a):
>     def foo(self):
>         print 'bye'
> 
> 
> > I'd like to get b to use a modified version a, without 
> > having to change the code of either
> > 
> > 
> > my code would do something like:
> > 
> > binst = b()
> > <insert your solution here>
> > binst.bar()
> 
> You want to intervene too late, I think.  BEFORE you import 
> thirdparty, you'll have to install your tweaked mysyslib module
> as syslib.  So:
> 
> import sys
> import mysyslib
> sys.modules['syslib'] = mysyslib
> import thirdparty
> binst = thirdparty.b()
> binst.bar()
>

But in this case, aren't you substituting the whole syslib
with your own module, instead of only the definition that
the OP wishes to change?

I thought that 'syslib.a' was only looked up when an instance
of 'thirdparty.b' was created.  Opinion Alex?

-gustavo



From grisha at apache.org  Wed Nov 27 14:37:33 2002
From: grisha at apache.org (Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:37:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Mod_python 3.0.1
Message-ID: <20021127135855.Q36516-100000@eden.ispol.com>

The Apache Software Foundation and The Apache HTTP Server Project are
pleased to announce the release of mod_python 3.0.1.

Mod_python is an Apache HTTP Server module that embeds the Python
interpreter within the server. With mod_python you can write web-based
applications in Python that will run many times faster than traditional
CGI and will have access to advanced features such as ability to retain
database connections between requests, access to httpd internals and
provide content filter as well as connection handlers.

This is the first release of mod_python as a subproject of the Apache HTTP
Server Project, as well as a major milestone accomplishment finally
bringing compatibility with Apache 2.0.

This release increments the major version to 3. The major version
increment is to denote that this release is only compatible with Apache
httpd server 2.0 and Python 2.2 or later and is not fully backwards
compatible with previous versions of mod_python. For details on migrating
code from previous versions of mod_python, as well as a list of new
featurs, see the README file in the distribution.

Mod_python is available for download from:

http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/modpython/

For more information about mod_python visit
http://www.modpython.org/

Enjoy, and Happy Thanksgiving to those in the US!

Grisha Trubetskoy





From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 11 06:16:11 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:16:11 GMT
Subject: writing from file into dictionary
References: <186229a7.0211110211.7c639dc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <%jMz9.16299$Bs5.574932@news1.tin.it>

Bo wrote:

> Hi all!
> I've just started to "play" with Python. Can someone tell me how to
> read the grammar in from the file , and place it into a dictionary ?
> The grammar is represented by lines where the head is separated from
> the rewrite by a colon, as in the following :
> 
> start:person does something:
> start:I do something:
> activity:dancing:
> activity:eating:  #and more
> 
> This should be placed into a dictionary...
> Thanks a lot, greetings
> Bo

Assuming the trailing colon at the end of the 'rewrite' part
(and anything following it, such as the comment in the last
line) is to be removed; and that corresponding to each head
you want a list of the possible rewrites for that head;

grammardict = {}
for line in open('thefile'):
    head, rewrite = line.split(':',2)[:2]
    grammardict.setdefault(head, []).append(rewrite)


Alex



From jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 15:42:59 2002
From: jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk (Jeremy Yallop)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 20:42:59 GMT
Subject: redirecting cgi error to browser
References: <653cf871.0211181220.43beca9c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <arbjcj$gv7nj$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de>

* les
| i would like to redirect the cgi error to my browser, for debugging purposes.
| i am looking for it on the net but am unable to find it.
| can someone please give me an example 

Use the `cgitb' module from the standard library.

   http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-cgitb.html

 ``The cgitb module provides a special exception handler for CGI
   scripts. After this module is activated, if an uncaught exception
   occurs, a detailed, formatted report will be sent to the Web
   browser. The report includes a traceback showing excerpts of the
   source code for each level, as well as the values of the arguments
   and local variables to currently running functions, to help you
   debug the problem. Optionally, you can save this information to a
   file instead of sending it to the browser.''

Jeremy.


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Nov 22 18:03:06 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 17:03:06 -0600
Subject: Python order warts (and others)
In-Reply-To: <GXp39kKkXQ7c092yn@gnosis.cx>                       
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
	 <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
	 <TUrD9.58023$Yw.2622115@news2.tin.it>  <GXp39kKkXQ7c092yn@gnosis.cx> 
Message-ID: <1038006185.1530.2054.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Fri, 2002-11-22 at 14:38, David Mertz wrote:
> But those warts are only matters of syntax.  I might have spelled those
> things differently, but there is no deep semantic issue.  The
> "incommensurability of complex numbers" is a much worse semantic
> problem.  I used to be able to sort lists, now I cannot.  Or at least
> without first checking all the contents of the lists before I try to
> sort (or maybe catching errors and recovering somehow).  It's ugly.

It sounds like what you're looking for is ordering, not comparison,
i.e., a function like cmp that never throws an exception and given two
objects will always produce the same result -- predictable and
repeatable, but otherwise potentially arbitrary.

Such a function would seem to be a better solution than a new complex
class.  Unlike comparison you could also specify that the results would
be consistent across Python versions.

  Ian





From johs+n at ifi.uio.no  Sat Nov  9 09:59:47 2002
From: johs+n at ifi.uio.no (Johannes =?iso-8859-1?q?Gr=F8dem?=)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 15:59:47 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>

* Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu>:

> Python represents logical nesting the same way human read it, by
> indentation.  Lisp repesents all nesting with parentheses, [...]

When you program in Lisp, you (your editor) indents blocks for you,
which makes it easy to see block structure.  Noone actually manually
count parentheses.  (All sane editors support paren-matching.)

> Python uses infix notation for math.  Most humans were brought up to
> understand infix.

Because Lisp has a powerful macro system, it is actually possible to
have an infix-macro, which lets you use infix-syntax.  And you can
write macros to support all sorts of weird syntax, if you want.

> The reason Python programmers often don't have to think about it
> is most of the time it's intuitive.  [Evaluation order.]

And when is it not intuitive in Lisp?  Sure, you can write macros that
evaluate arguments in unintuitive order, but why would you?  For
functions, arguments are evaluated left-to-right, just as you would
expect.

Maybe you're confusing Lisp with Scheme?

-- 
Johannes Gr?dem <OpenPGP: 5055654C>


From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Sat Nov 30 09:26:06 2002
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:26:06 +0200
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
In-Reply-To: <20021130144102.E11257@prim.han.de>; from pyth@devel.trillke.net on Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 02:41:02PM +0100
References: <1038571003.6023.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20021129141954.GA1876@hishome.net> <20021129160115.C11257@prim.han.de> <20021130144547.A1438@hishome.net> <20021130144102.E11257@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <20021130162606.A3046@hishome.net>

On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 02:41:02PM +0100, holger krekel wrote:
> > class record(dict):
> >     def __init__(self, initfrom=(), **kw):
> >         dict.__init__(self, initfrom)
> 
> But this pollutes the instance's namespace. 

Do you mean that dict methods without double-underscores? Yes, of you
add a field called 'keys' to a record it will override the 'keys' 
method inherited from dict. 

> Is inheriting from the dict class really neccessary?

Another way to achieve this effect is overloading __getattr__, __setattr__ 
but it requires more code and is *much* slower.

        Oren




From animeshk at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 27 16:20:26 2002
From: animeshk at yahoo.com (animeshk)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 13:20:26 -0800
Subject: status of Jython?
Message-ID: <4cce07d5.0211271320.18d76ebc@posting.google.com>

I noticed on the Jython site that the last version of Jython is from
December 2001.  What version of CPython is this "equivalent to" (if
that makes any sense)?  2.1?  Is there a new version available
anywhere?  Thanks!


From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Tue Nov 19 13:30:13 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 19:30:13 +0100
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <uheede7ka.fsf@online.no>

"Josh" <jslmaslk at earthlink.net> writes:

> Hi guys,
> 
> I am a python newbie, and I am sure there is an easy answer but, Is
> there
> 
> any equivalent to C's static variables in Python? If not, how can you
> have
> 
> variables inside a function, that 'remember' their values between
> function
> 
> calls?

Use a class. I know that is not the direct answer to your question,
but anyway, use a class.

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From Jan.Wegner at zuken.de  Wed Nov 13 09:18:39 2002
From: Jan.Wegner at zuken.de (Jan Wegner)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:18:39 +0100
Subject: Tkinter: a widget within a menu(item)
Message-ID: <3DD25F3F.1030606@zuken.de>

hi,

I want to place a small widget (colorchoser) on a sub menu of
a popup menu. But - depending on the os and python version
used - I get:
	- nothing or
	- the widget itself.

The latter in very rare cases. When using a Tkinter.Button()
I get the same behaviour.

(win_nt4 + python 2.2 fails)
(solaris 2.6 + python 1.5 OK!)

What am I doing wrong,
is there way to achieve the desired behaviour?

here is a code snippet
-----8<----
# Code to show problem with widget on (sub-) menus
import Tkinter

def hello_cb( ):
    print "hello!"

root = Tkinter.Tk( )
frame = Tkinter.Frame( root,
                       width=200,
                       height=200
                       )

frame.pack( )

#popup menu w/o menubar
menu0 = Tkinter.Menu( frame, tearoff=0)
menu1 = Tkinter.Menu( menu0, tearoff=0)
menu2 = Tkinter.Menu( menu0, tearoff=0)

menu2.add_command( label="sub one",
                   command = hello_cb)

menu2.add_command( label="sub two",
                   command = hello_cb)

#
# the tricky part of the deal
frm = Tkinter.Frame( menu1 )
frm.pack( )
btn = Tkinter.Button( frm,
                      text = ' 16 tons',
                      command = hello_cb)
btn.pack( )


#OK! make a 'simple' one
menu0.add_command( label="First 1",
                   command=hello_cb)

#doesn't work
menu0.add_cascade( label="Second is Sub ...",
                   menu = menu1)
#OK!
menu0.add_cascade( label="Third is Sub ...",
                   menu = menu2)

# pop it up
def showMenu(event):
    menu0.post(event.x_root, event.y_root)

frame.bind("<Button-3>", showMenu)


Tkinter.mainloop()

----->8----

Kind Reards,

Jan (Wegner)



From skip at pobox.com  Sun Nov 17 22:32:05 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 21:32:05 -0600
Subject: Pythoncal, anyone? (My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax
        (PEP 255))
In-Reply-To: <3DD84FDA.3010708@something.invalid>
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org>
        <PoWcnQjwr8ECy06gXTWc3A@comcast.com>
        <3DD84FDA.3010708@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <15832.24373.714284.173258@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Greg> I have an idea: Suppose there were a "don't" statement that could
    Greg> be put in front of another statement to, effectively, comment it
    Greg> out,

Dunno if your suggestion is serious, but if so, you could extend the pass
statement, yes?

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From cliechti at gmx.net  Fri Nov  1 19:15:26 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 02:15:26 +0200
Subject: map network drive
References: <mfFw9.10$%f4.172@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92BA171FDF95cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"tagarwal" <trilok.agarwal at oracle.com> wrote in 
news:mfFw9.10$%f4.172 at news.oracle.com:

> How could i map network drives using python scripts,

i guess you're talking of windows. in that case you can use
os.system or os.popen and call "net use" with appropriate args.
it's likely that there is also a windows API call that you can use with the 
win32all module but i don't know that.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov  5 11:43:10 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:43:10 -0600
Subject: Tkinter / Tcl callbacks, and return -code error
In-Reply-To: <1527bafc.0211050829.1ba81bb1@posting.google.com>
References: <1527bafc.0211050829.1ba81bb1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021105164309.GA21221@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 08:29:47AM -0800, Steve Davis wrote:
> I am working with a package written in C and Tcl/Tk, with python
> bindings.  It allows me to set up some callback functions, which
> notify progress of long-running calculation, and can also cancel these
> calculations.  I have the callbacks calling python functions, (using
> Tkinter "register()" function), but I can't figure out how to cancel
> the calculations.
> 
> To cancel the calculations from Tcl, one is supposed to "return -code
> error".  Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a python mechanism to
> do this.  The closest I've come is by making a python object with no
> string representation, and returning that object.  This approach goes
> too far, though - I get:
> 
> Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread
> Aborted
> 
> It doesn't seem like my approach should kill the python interpreter,
> but I may be misunderstanding something.
> 
> If it's relevant, I'm using the "snack" audio package
> (http://www.speech.kth.se/snack), and the "progress" callback
> functions available with various sound manipulations.
> 
> So, is there a way to do the equivalent of the Tcl "return -code
> error" from within python?  If not, is there some workaround?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

It looks like raising an exception in a Python function called from TCL
should end up returning TCL_ERROR.  It appears that there's an
"adderrorinfo" method as well.

Jeff



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Nov 14 13:51:03 2002
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:51:03 -0500
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <XC/09ks/KDSV089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d at posting.google.com>,
marvelan at hotmail.com (M) wrote:
>The new enumerate or zip function. If you look at the code using this function
>it is not at all obvious what the code does. Let say a programmer that knows
>10 other languages looks at this code. I don't think he would right away
>understand what this function does. This construct is not obvious. Generators
>are another thing that are just horrible. They just don't work in a way
>that one would expect from previous experience.

   If you were to think database tables, imagine you had a
list of part numbers, a list of part descriptions, a list of
prices, etc. all corresponding.

   `zip` could put these into a list of tuples, each one a
row containing a corresonding part number, part description
and price.

   Quite simple, really.

>I understand that one will like to add features to a language in order to
>make it more powerfull. But I argue that this must be done in a way so that
>programmers of *different skill levels* will understand the code.

   Different, yes, but not all.  Most of us here are
who/what we are because at various times in our lives we
decided we had to become more skillful.

        Regards.        Mel.


From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Nov 14 05:01:08 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (maxm)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:01:08 +0100
Subject: Python and ASP oddity
References: <kpqksu4ej3brl29kot4lr1c3g973en3r0v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3DD37464.4070503@mxm.dk>

Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:

> There is no problem storing simple values in the Session object but
> the problem remains that we can't figure out how to store Python
> objects in there.


If you don't need to save complex objetcs, perhaps you are better of 
writing a com/python datatype conversion layer?

Both dicts and list should be pretty straightforward.

regards Max M



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 27 05:39:39 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 04:39:39 -0600
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
In-Reply-To: <F152taJVVumMKKECBlG0000212d@hotmail.com> ("malik martin"'s
 message of "Wed, 27 Nov 2002 05:27:43 -0500")
References: <F152taJVVumMKKECBlG0000212d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2fztnqot0.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "malik" == malik martin <malik_martin at hotmail.com> writes:

    malik>    i'm having a simple problem i guess.  but i still dont
    malik> know the answer. anyone see anything wrong with this code?
    malik> i think it's the line in the while loop that starts with
    malik> "averagea = ..."  because it will execute once but once the
    malik> loop goes around one more time it gets an error. is there
    malik> it because averagea has been assigned a definate value? if
    malik> so how do i record the value but reset averagea back to 0(
    malik> i guess it would be 0)

    malik>    any help would be apreciated. thanks!!

I think you forgot to post your code.   Makes it harder.

JDH



From edream at tds.net  Sun Nov 24 10:32:39 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:32:39 GMT
Subject: Uninstalling Python hoses dll -- not
Message-ID: <ri6E9.26421$Hs2.3700995@kent.svc.tds.net>

Recently I reported that uninstalling Python 2.1.x hosed a dll on XP.  That
report was greeted with skepticism.  Indeed, I am still having problems with
that dll, so Python appears to be completely in the clear.  My apologies for
jumping to conclusions.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  4 05:30:02 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 10:30:02 +0000
Subject: urllib ??
References: <9782a2ed.0211040151.db070a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DC64C2A.7604FB4B@hotmail.com>

Rainer Malik wrote:

> hi !
> i have a rather simple problem using urllib to POST something to a
> server. my script looks like this:

>     .....
>     d['.cgifields']='Dbase3d'
>     query=urllib.urlencode(d)
>     url = 'http://tux.embl-heidelberg.de/ramensky/polyphen.cgi'
>     results = urllib.urlopen(url,query).read()
>     open ('/import/enterprise/home/rainer/test.html','w').write(results)
> 
> the problem i have is the following: when i call this script, i just
> get the main HP of the server with the values filled in the correct
> fields. but what i miss is the 'pressing of the submit button', so
> that i will get the result from the server. i have no idea how this
> should work.

Rainer,

To me, this does not make sense.

"Pressing of the Submit Button" only happens in browsers.

What you are doing above in your code is executing the same series of
actions as happens, behind the scenes, in a browser, when a user presses
a submit button.

You say you want to "get the result from the server". But the line of
code

results = urllib.urlopen(url,query).read()

Does exactly that. It opens a URL connection, transmits query data to
that URL, reads the results that come back, and names them with the name
"results".

Am I missing something here?

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From hjwidmaier at web.de  Mon Nov  4 03:09:11 2002
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 00:09:11 -0800
Subject: Tkinter disregards font encoding
Message-ID: <6e990e29.0211040009.33127f7@posting.google.com>

Either Tkinter or Tk (the latter seems more likely to me) does not
obey the font encoding in a font specification.

My code's like this:
Font   = '-*-helvetica-bold-r-normal-*-12-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-15'

    w = Label(master, font=Font, textvariable=self.priceVar,
justify=RIGHT)

But I do not get the expected Euro sign; Tk uses definitely the
*-iso8859-1 variant. The -15 is installed, I can use it with other
applications and look at it with xfd.

I'm running python 2.2.2 with Tcl/Tk 8.4.0 on Linux. The problem was
the same with python 2.2.1 and Tcl/Tk 8.3.something.

Since I'm tight on space I cannot use "EUR" as an alternative. And
then, I don't want to -- what for do I have the right glyph in a font?

Does anyone have an idea how I might circumvent that problem?

Hans-Joachim


From oussoren at cistron.nl  Sat Nov  2 17:40:49 2002
From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 23:40:49 +0100
Subject: List slice assignment and custom sequences
In-Reply-To: <3DC429DA.D11E051C@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <2283AD34-EEB4-11D6-867B-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>

On Saturday, Nov 2, 2002, at 20:39 Europe/Amsterdam, Erik Max Francis 
wrote:

> Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>
>> I traced this to the implementation of this feature in type 'list': It
>> requires that the new version of the slice is also a 'list':
>>
>>         l = [ 1, 2, 3, 4]
>>         l[1:3] = range(10)      # works fine
>>         l[1:3] = xrange(10) # raises TypeError
>>
>> Why must the RHS side of 'l[1:3] = expr()' be an instance of 'list'?
>
> Well, you want to splice one list into another.  Both have to be lists.
No, I want to replace part of a sequence by another sequence. I don't 
understand _why_ the RHS must be a list if the LHS is one. It doesn't 
even allow a tuple, even though tuples can be used instead of lists in 
almost all code that treats the sequence as read-only.

> To convert any sequence S to an actual list, use the list builtin:
>
> 	list(S)
>
> So you'd just write your problem code as
>
> 	l[1:3] = list(xrange(10))
>
> Although in this case, needless to say, range(10) would make a great
> deaal more sense.
Sure, but xrange was just an example. FYI the actual type is NSArray 
(http://pyobjc.sourceforge.net). We'd like to make this type act as 
closely as possible like a normal list to avoid unnecessary conversions 
to/from python types.

Ronald




From imbosol at vt.edu  Wed Nov 13 00:14:06 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:14:06 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Martin Maney wrote:
> I'd love to "get" why some form of assignment on the fly is so evil that we
> have to invent hacks to work around its lack over and over again (recipie
> 1.9 in the Cookbook).  The lack interacts especially badly with a language
> where indentation is a mandantory part of the control structure.  :-(

Well, I highly disagree that changing assignment semantics is the
solution to this, for three reasons.  First, I have a general distaste
for anything that returns a value and has side effects.  Second, it
leads to all kinds of unreadability in the code by people abusing it.
Third, it is an incomplete solution.

The idiom you speak of is common enough.

do_A()
if test_based_on_A():
    take_action_A()
else:
    do_B()
    if test_based_on_B():
        take_action_B()
    else:
        do_C()
        if test_based_in_C():
            take_action_C()
        else:
            ...


The nesting goes on and on.  Changing assignment to an expression
can't solve this entirely, because sometimes do_A, do_B, do_C, etc.,
aren't tiny little assignments.  What you want is not a solution to
the real problem.

A new syntax would be the best solution, IMHO.  For example, the
suppose statement:

    suppose:
        do_A()
    if test_based_on_A():
        take_action_A()
    elsuppose:
        do_B()
    if test_based_on_B():
        take_action_B()

However, it is not likely to happen because it adds a new keyword, and
the idiom is not too common.  (Some will argue that it's hard to
follow, although I wouldn't say it's any harder than else: clauses on
fors and whiles.)

And, getting this back to the topic, you could do this if Python had
macros.  But I agree with Alex here; Python isn't the language for
that.  That's why we have Lisp.  Having the occasional useful syntax
not available (tryexcept anyone? conditional operator?) is a price
you pay sometimes.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 22 22:18:43 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:18:43 -0700
Subject: can not find module Numeric
References: <mailman.1038019472.8353.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arms2j$86g$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Jianping Zhu wrote:

> I am new to python. I have installed python2.2 numarray-0.3.6.win32-py2.2
> in my windows2000
> machine but when i do import Numeric I got following error msg.
> 
>>>> import Numeric

Numarray is a new-generation Numeric, and you'll need to import it by its own 
name. But I'd suggest you stick to downloading Numeric 22 for now. Unless you 
are into Numarray development, it's not considered production ready quite 
yet.

cheers,

f


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Nov 20 12:22:41 2002
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 17:22:41 GMT
Subject: Teaching numerics with Python
References: <arg9lu$85u$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <arggd1$id4bo$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>

Antti Rasila <arasila at pcu.helsinki.fi.invalid> wrote:
> 1) ..someone has experience on this kind of usage of Python numerical
> mathematics? We would be happy to hear from your experiences.

I discovered Python while looking for a scripting language to do some
numerical work.  At the time, I was more interested in source code and
algorithm that I can write myself, because I had to make some modification
to well-known FFT routines.  Almost like "Numerical Recipes in Python".

Although I use Python (and Linux) everyday, I really don't think Python is
essential for teaching "scientific computing", if you're simply calling up
already existing libraries.  You can do that in C, C++, or Matlab.  

If you're teaching algorithm, then Python is probably the best language.
It's very easy to translate C/Fortran routines or math algorithms on paper,
and it's very easy to read and write.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov 12 08:38:33 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 14:38:33 +0100
Subject: Tk extension for python
References: <aqqo6b$2kps$1@news.ukr.net>
Message-ID: <m31y5qvrfq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

1327055037 Anatol Sukhomlyn <anatols at ukr.net> writes:

> How i can add Tktable extension to python?
> I think it is very good package into Tcl/Tk 

If you tell me how you add it to Tcl, I will tell you how to add it to
Tkinter.

Regards,
Martin



From costanza at web.de  Mon Nov 18 08:59:43 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:59:43 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de>

A. Lloyd Flanagan wrote:

>>In summary, Lisp's problem is that it had no BDFL.
>>
> 
> Exactly.  In addition, Lisp proponents have historically been
> contemptous of attempts to run efficiently on available hardware,
> something which is somewhat important to anybody without a bunch of
> extra cash to buy more powerful hardware.  You can't completely ignore
> the desires of the market and expect to sell a whole lot of anything.

This situation has changed considerably. On the one hand, Common Lisp 
vendors have improved their implementations a lot with regard to 
efficiency. On the other hand, machines are powerful enough nowadays in 
order to give you some convenience in language constructs, like dynamic 
type checking. This argument shouldn't be too alien to Python fans.

> In addition, I think Common Lisp killed a lot of Lisp's momentum. 
> Much of Lisp's power comes from the application of just a few basic
> language elements; CL added an incredible amount of complexity in the
> process of including each and every favorite feature of all the major
> players in the Lisp market.  Check out Guy Steele's Common Lisp. 
> Python has the power but hasn't (yet at least) been drowned in
> complexity.

Common Lisp has a small core with a big library. Many people regard 
Common Lisp as a big language because there's no obvious disctinction 
between the language-defined and user-defined features. If you compare 
this with the situation for examle in the case of Java, there you have a 
clear distinction between the language and its API. However, the API in 
Java is actually much bigger than the built-in functionality in Common Lisp.

I think the blurred boundaries between the core language and the library 
in Common Lisp are a big advantage.

To summarize some claims, some people say that Common Lisp is too big 
while some say that it is lacking in APIs. However, you can't say both 
things at the same time, this would be contradictory. If you want to try 
a Lispy language with a considerable number of reasonably portable 
features/libraries you should go for Common Lisp. If you want to insist 
on a small core with a standard library of a manageable size you might 
probably want to take a look at Scheme. However, it should be clear that 
in the long run, a large library pays off. (Most Scheme implementations 
come with large libraries as well, but they are not standardized.)

(These are not the only considerations to take into account. For example 
in my opinion, Scheme focuses more on features that are of an academic 
interest whereas Common Lisp stresses features that are proven in 
action. Of course, YMMV.)

Pascal

-- 
Pascal Costanza               University of Bonn
mailto:costanza at web.de        Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de  R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)



From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Nov 14 20:02:55 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:02:55 -0600
Subject: BUG URLLIB2
References: <3DD43DA7.5070004@libero.it>
Message-ID: <m2lm3vhcg0.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "bart" == bart  <e_viola at libero.it> writes:

    bart> I'm an italian student and my problem consists about
    bart> urllib2; urlopen function, sometimes, give me old (and
    bart> inexactly) url because the site has moved in a new location
    bart> but urlopen doesn't undestand it and return 403 error
    bart> FORBIDDEN.

I don't think you can describe this as a bug; it's a feature!  python
provides exceptions to handle, well, exceptional circumstances, such
as trying to access a web site that you are forbidden to access.  When
this happens, an 'exception' is raised, and there is a mechanism to
handle the exception.

A simple example

  class MyClass:
      def __init__(self, x):
      self.x = x
  
  c = MyClass(1)
  
  print c.x  # ok
  print c.y  # illegal, an AttributeError is raised       

In order to try something that might raise an exception, enclose it in
try/except blocks

  try: print c.x
  except AttributeError: 'There is no attribute x'
  
  try: print c.y
  except AttributeError: 'There is no attribute y'

There are lots of kinds of kinds of exceptions, and individual modules can
create their own.  Suppose we wanted to divide some number by y, but
y equals 0

  y = 1
  print 2/y  # this is ok
  
  y = 0
  print 2/y  # this is not so good, and will raise a ZeroDivisionError

You can define default behavior if someone tries to divide by zero by
handling the exception

  try: print 2/y
  except ZeroDivisionError: print 'You are about to explode!'

Now, to make a long story short, you need to handle the
urllib2.HTTPError exception in your example

  try: con=urllib2.urlopen('http://www.google.it/search')
  except urllib2.HTTPError: print "Can't read the web site, try again!"

For a tutorial introduction to exceptions, see
http://python.org/doc/current/tut/node10.html

For future reference: python is a mature language and it is a rare
experience indeed to find a bug.  User error is far more common.
Also, cross posting the question to many USENET groups and mailing
lists is generally frowned upon.  If it is a python question and you
post to this group alone, chances are good that you'll get a reply
within the hour, usually much sooner.

Good luck!
John Hunter


From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 13 14:46:55 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 19:46:55 GMT
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <aqt734$r6j$0@216.39.172.122> <3dd27ed6$0$4440$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <149oh3oxnl53k.1tyg3jioqd4rb$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <3dd2ac2f$0$4474$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <149oh3oxnl53k.1tyg3jioqd4rb$.dlg at 40tude.net>, Jarek Zgoda wrote:
> Dnia 13 Nov 2002 16:33:26 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) pisze na 
> grupie comp.lang.python:
> 
>> One warning: there is a very special place reserved in hell for
>> people who design GUI dialogs with hard-wired widget locations
>> so that the dialogs can't be resized.  One of the reasons I
>> really hate working with MS-Windows because of all the dialog
>> boxes that use 80% of the space in a dialog for useless crap,
>> and then show only four lines in a list-box containing 100+
>> elements.  A decent GUI would let you resize the dialog so you
>> could see more of the stuff in the list-box.  But not
>> MS-Windows....
> 
> And here comes the Delphi's idea of using alignments and
> anchors. AFAIR, wxPython has also "anchors", but I didn't found
> any reasonable information on using it (except the demo
> application), so I'm forced to use sizers...

I always really like'd Testle[1]'s method of using "boxes" and
"glue".  It was almost identical to the layout scheme Knuth
chose for TeX.  I spent years working on and off with Tk's
"pack" and never could predict what it was going to do more
than half the time.

[1] A widget set and/or windowing system for Modula-3

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. I want to perform
                                  at               cranial activities with
                               visi.com            Tuesday Weld!!


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Mon Nov 18 18:16:03 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:16:03 +1300
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <4STA9.9987$744.345722@news1.tin.it> <jc58tugirbnbtn1i7e2kf7of4l3ltt665e@4ax.com> <mailman.1037315122.20415.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD974B3.3070507@something.invalid>

James J. Besemer wrote:

> It's ostensibly the reason why 
> integer division was redefined to produce a real result -- because naive 
> users might be "confused" by a truncated integer result.


No, that's not the reason. The reason is that the
combination of dynamic typing with an operator that
does different things on two closely-related types
is an accident waiting to happen. Even if you're
fully aware of the potential problem, it can
still trip you up.

I believe Guido did the right thing by changing this.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From theller at python.net  Fri Nov 22 12:05:44 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 18:05:44 +0100
Subject: ctypes and delphi dll
References: <aredbs$i4r6a$1@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de> <argvq1$ijund$1@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de> <wun7usok.fsf@python.net> <arlmr6$k42qu$1@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <adk1y1p3.fsf@python.net>

Bernd Zimmermann <zimmermann.edv at t-online.de> writes:

> Thomas Heller wrote:
> 
> > Should ctypes support the pascal calling convention 'natively'?
> > Maybe later...
> 
> Thank you for your work on ctypes and for picking up this issue,
> Thomas.
> 
> Calling this Delphi DLL Procedure, declared as 'PASCAL', from
> Visual C++ 6.0, I had to re-arrange the arguments too. So 'ctypes'
> is in good company - and - compatible :-)

'Correct' would be better than 'compatible', I think.  OTOH, it is
easy to work around this as I showed you in my previous post.

Supporting PASCAL calling convention in ctypes' C code would be as
easy, IMO.  I will consider it.

Thomas


From rmunn at pobox.com  Mon Nov 11 16:18:32 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:18:32 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org> <slrnasuojg.l14.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <CGKz9.21091$XO.1011472@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <slrnat07tl.m09.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
> Robin Munn wrote:
> 
>> Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>> I'm certainly amazed at the tolerance people have for questions that are
>>> readily answered in a number of on-line tutorials, and in both the Python
>>> books that I have (Learning Python and the Python Cookbook). In the end,
>>> the friendly attitude may be the killer feature.
>> 
>> Out of curiosity, do you think a response like: "That's covered in the
>> Python tutorial -- look at [URL]" will strike a newbie as friendly or
>> not? I ask because that's the kind of answer I will tend to write when
>> I'm in a hurry. Sometimes I will take the time to phrase the answer in
>> my own words, but often I won't want to duplicate the work that someone
>> else has already done in writing that tutorial. So if you were a newbie
>> getting a curt response like that, would you feel it was a brushoff, or
>> would you feel like your question had been answered?
> 
> If the URL was a reasonably short page most of which was about
> answering my question, I'd feel quite happy.
> 
> If the URL was to a large document of which maybe 10%, if that,
> is about answering my question, with all of the rest providing
> generically-interesting information that doesn't however have to
> do with answering my specific question, I'd probably feel I have
> been "given a brushoff".

Thanks; that's something to keep in mind, especially as the Python
tutorial tends to have large pages full of detail. So a better response
would be something like:

"That's covered in the Python tutorial -- see section 5.3.1 of [URL],
and let me know if that doesn't answer your question."

Still saves time for the answerer who doesn't have to duplicate the work
that went into writing the tutorial, but the newbie will feel a lot
happier, I imagine.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From brian_ at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 22 05:51:27 2002
From: brian_ at yahoo.com (Brian Lenihan)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 02:51:27 -0800
Subject: IDLE on Mac OS 10.2.2
References: <p.thibault-08D329.00414622112002@news.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <MPG.1847ac0d7bf6373d989689@news.nw.centurytel.net>

In article <p.thibault-08D329.00414622112002 at news.videotron.net>, 
p.thibault at bigfoot.com says...
> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking for help for IDLE on Mac OS X. I'dont where to start. I've 
> download the IDLE for OS X but I am unable to start it. I have Mac OS 
> 10.2.2.
> 
> Could you help me?

It is fairly easy to do what you want using the idle-fork project from 
SourceForge and Python 2.3a0 from CVS.  Doing it with Python 2.2.2 is 
possible, but much more difficult.  Look in the pythonmac-sig archive 
for more info:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/


From claird at lairds.com  Wed Nov  6 16:26:05 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:26:05 -0000
Subject: Tkinter's button
References: <mailman.1036589142.8902.python-list@python.org> <HX9y9.78546$aL4.2424142@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <usj27deeiif38@corp.supernews.com>

In article <HX9y9.78546$aL4.2424142 at news1.tin.it>,
Alex Martelli  <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>black wrote:
>
>> 
>>  thanx but why we could check items by format like this: myButton["state"]
>> as I remembered that is with dictionary, while myButton is instance here
>> how could we invoke a dictionary with an instance name ? thanx in advance~
>
>Tkinter widgets are mappings (as well as being other things too).  Any
>class can define its instances to be mappings if it wants to -- the class 
>just needs to implement special methods __getitem__ etc appropriately (or 
>their equivalents for C=coded extension types).
>
>Not sure what you mean by "invoke a dictionary with an instance name".
>
>
>Alex
>

Alex, I wonder whether black is aware of the introspective keys()
method.  He might not realize that he can write
  print dict.keys()
to receive a list of the names of keys of the dict dictionary.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From costanza at web.de  Mon Nov 25 04:21:14 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:21:14 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arrijv$kap$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <1038199757.350382@yasure>
Message-ID: <3DE1EB8A.1040003@web.de>

Donn Cave wrote:
> Quoth Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de>:

> | Message passing means that there are several entities that communicate 
> | by sending messages between them. The main points are that these 
> | entities are autonomous and that there is no central "main" program that 
> | controls the behavior of these entitities.
> 
> But that's somewhat circular.  Message passing means that there are
> entities that pass messages, eh?  But what would a message be, precisely?
> What are the semantics of passing, for the sender and the recipient?
> How is it different from calling a subroutine?  Is multi-threaded
> execution necessary for this model?  If there is no main program,
> where does the program begin?  Can Python programs be written this
> way, and if so how would you tell the difference?

The power of mental models is that they are not precise. Furthermore, I 
wasn't attempting to give a complete description - I mean, there are 
whole books you can read on this topic. ;)

> |> It can be much harder to get something done in pure FP, at least
> |> that's true for me.  Now, this is obviously because I ``think in
> |> Python'', or rather I think in procedural terms, and someone who
> |> ``thinks in Haskell'' will have less trouble.
> |
> | I have my doubts. When a Haskell program doesn't behave as expected you 
> | have to know what goes on behind the scenes - you have to know which 
> | expressions get evaluated at what stage, in which order statements are 
> | executed, and so on, in order to understand the program's behavior. 
> | However, languages like Haskell deliberately try to hide these things. 
> 
> Yes, that's an extra thing in Haskell - compared not only to Python,
> but also to ML and other functional languages.  So we aren't really
> talking about imperative vs. declarative here, though I admit it was
> my idea to hold up Haskell as a particularly good example.

You're right. The operational model of CAML is simpler than that of 
Haskell. And it wasn't my intention to dismiss Haskell, I think it's an 
important language and worthwhile to learn.


Pascal

-- 
Pascal Costanza               University of Bonn
mailto:costanza at web.de        Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de  R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)



From mark.charsley at REMOVE_THIS.radioscape.com  Tue Nov  5 12:36:00 2002
From: mark.charsley at REMOVE_THIS.radioscape.com (Mark Charsley)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:36 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: Asking a user for the root password and executing root only c  ommands...
References: <apqh92$pve$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <memo.20021105173606.120B@a.radioscape.com>

In article <apqh92$pve$0 at 216.39.172.122>, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) 
wrote:

> Kind of funny (not) that /sbin/shutdown must be run as root,

Thus preventing plain users logged in over telnet /ssh etc from rebooting 
your machine.

> but by default any doorknob rattler could kick it off with ctrl-alt-del
> without being asked for a password. Not a cool default config IMO ;-/

Thus providing anyone with accesss to the console's power switch a more 
computer-friendly way of rebooting a locked-up machine than power-cycling 
it.

Seems a cool config to me.


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Nov 30 09:45:04 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 09:45:04 -0500
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <698f09f8.0211261046.582254a5@posting.google.com> <3DE40E21.A547F49E@alcyone.com> <698f09f8.0211270143.5a3b9f0f@posting.google.com> <3DE49902.BE880724@alcyone.com> <291120020841221805%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <uuhjmpk9sb0619@news.supernews.com>

"Louis M. Pecora" <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> wrote in message
news:291120020841221805%pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil...
> In article <3DE49902.BE880724 at alcyone.com>, Erik Max Francis
> <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, it does, but it also means that everyone who ever wants to
> > implement a sequence type needs to define __filter__ and __map__
methods
> > (say) or you can't do filtering and mapping with them.  Filter and
map
> > are general algorithms over sequence types -- all you need to use
them
> > is iteration, which is what all sequence types have in common.
>
> Python dummy question:  If you want them as methods, can't you just
> "overload" them to output the particular sequence.  Otherwise if you
> don't want to bother, you still have them as list returns.  Best of
> both worlds?

That would be true if your sequence type inherited from one
of the existing sequence types. Most classes that implement
(parts of) the sequence interface don't do that.

John Roth
>
> --
> Lou Pecora
>   - My views are my own.




From benc1 at today.com.au  Sat Nov  2 21:58:01 2002
From: benc1 at today.com.au (Ben C)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 18:58:01 -0800
Subject: Using windll with complex data types
References: <8beb91f5.0211020556.30107507@posting.google.com> <0qxMNUAyh+w9EwJw@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8beb91f5.0211021858.4739bd5f@posting.google.com>

Hello once more,

thanks you for the previous example ... I am no getting some results
... but not quite what I expected ...

I have a function definition from a header file to a dll which takes a
pointer to a long such as below

API short int __stdcall GetVersion( VERSION *lpVersion );

So I did the following ... which gave results I was not expecting;

# Created A Handle To The dll
dll_handle = windll.module( package_name_dll )

# Allocate Space For The Version Number - 4 bytes for long
version_number = windll.cstring('', 4)

# Call Function Using Version Number Address
dll_handle.GetVersion( version_number.address() ) 

# Read Out Of Memory The Version Number 
version_number.read()

# This Returns
'\x03\x00\x02\x00'

# If I Feed This Into The Builtin Struct Function
struct.unpack( 'l', '\x03\x00\x02\x00' )

# I End Up With A Nonsense Number
(131075,)

Any ideas?

thanks (again)

Ben



Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<0qxMNUAyh+w9EwJw at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>...
> In article <8beb91f5.0211020556.30107507 at posting.google.com>, Ben C <benc1 at today.com.au> writes
> ....
> I use the structob module to create structured things as for pointers
> they are the address of something.
> 
> so for example a lasterror function looks like
> 
> def _lastErrorMessage(n=None):
>         msg = windll.cstring('',512)
>         kernel32.FormatMessageA(
>                         FORMAT_MESSAGE_FROM_SYSTEM | FORMAT_MESSAGE_IGNORE_INSERTS,
>                         0,
>                         n is None and GetLastError() or n,
>                         0,
>                         msg.address(),
>                         len(msg)-1,
>                         0
>                         )
>         return repr(msg)[1:-1]
> 
> we create the buffer and pass its address to the FormatMessage function.
> 
> If you really need pointer to pointer you need to create a buffer that holds the real address
> 
> eg
> class pointer(structob.struct_object):
>         oracle = structob.Oracle (
>                 'pointer',
>                 'Nl',
>                 ('ref',)
>                 )
> 
> then you can do
> 
> msg = windll.cstring('',512)
> p=pointer()
> p.ref = msg.address
> 
> so p points to msg and p.address() is a pointer to a pointer
> >
> >How does one pass reference to a pointer in a function?
> >
> >How does one retrieve data back from that pointer?
> >
> >How does one retrieve data back from aggregate data types such as
> >structures and arrays?
> >
> >Thanks in advance
> >
> >Ben


From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Nov  1 09:56:02 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:56:02 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: problem with calendar
In-Reply-To: <VYtw9.40$132.992@news.get2net.dk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211011755230.1275-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, [iso-8859-1] J?rgen Cederberg wrote:

> "Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message news:mailman.1036148287.8559.python-list at python.org...
> > 
> > I have the following problem:
> > 
> > Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 18 2002, 11:40:02)
> > [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-110)] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > >>> import calendar
> > >>> calendar.month_abbr
> > <calendar._localized_month instance at 0x8164a5c>
> > >>> calendar.month_abbr()
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > AttributeError: _localized_month instance has no __call__ method
> > 
> > What's up?
> 
> calendar.month_abbr is an instance of a _localized_month class and thus not callable because it does not have a __call__ method as the Traceback states. A dir-command reveals that it has a __getitem__ method. Example:
> 
> >>> calendar.month_abbr[1]
> 'Jan'

Thanks. I thought that it should be a list or a function.

 
> Sincerely yours 
> Jorgen
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
> > -- 
> >  - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > not to mailto:aaro at onego.ru
> > 
> > 
> 

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Tue Nov 19 10:54:30 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 15:54:30 GMT
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3DDA583F.3070206@Linux.ie>
Message-ID: <slrnatknjm.1bg.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <3DDA583F.3070206 at Linux.ie>, Padraig Brady wrote:
> Josh wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>> 
>> I am a python newbie, and I am sure there is an easy answer but, Is there
>> any equivalent to C's static variables in Python? If not, how can you have
>> variables inside a function, that 'remember' their values between function
>> calls?
>> 
>> Josh
> 
> For functions you could set attributes of the function
> as static variables? like:
> 
> def func():
>      func.name="value"
> 
> Then the attribute will be stored with the function
> and so is as long lived as the function

Yes, *but* func.name="value" will be executed on every function call. In
realistic examples, you'll want to change the value of the 'static' variable,
so you'll end up with code like:

    def foo():
        print foo.counter
        foo.counter += 1
    foo.counter = 0

or, even uglier:

    def foo():
        if not hasattr(foo, 'counter'):
            foo.counter = 0
        print foo.counter
        foo.counter += 1

I dare to say that if you really need to keep state, then going the
object-oriented way and using a class is the natural solution.

Alternatively, you can create your own callables, which is a lot more flexible
than faking 'static functions', anyway:

    class Foo:
        def __init__(self, startval):
            self.counter = startval

        def __call__(self):
            print self.counter
            self.counter += 1

    foo = Foo(5) # start counting at 5

    foo()
    foo()

HTH,
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Nov 15 21:26:27 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 20:26:27 -0600
Subject: lisp scheme lush python etc.
In-Reply-To: <3dd56449.9609081@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
References: <mailman.1036769111.29831.python-list@python.org>
	 <9a6d7d9d.0211120754.5245cc65@posting.google.com>
	 <3dd56449.9609081@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <1037413587.6799.615.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Fri, 2002-11-15 at 15:17, Mike Clarkson wrote:
> What would be really interesting would be a Lython -a Python written
> in Common Lisp, like Jython is written in Java. I think Lisp would be
> as good a language as Java for writing an intepreter, and there might
> be good performance from Lython given the very good native code
> compilers that are available for Lisp.
> 
> It would give Lisp another lease on life, would prove the portability
> of Python again, and would expose the Python community to some
> of the first class type inferencing and optimizations made by Lisp
> compilers (for example the compiler called 'Python' in CMU Lisp).

I think you are overestimating the value of a Python port.  To me Jython
seems useful strictly because it gives access to the Java world.  Unlike
Java, the Lisp world doesn't have a whole lot to offer in the way of
libraries and interfaces.

I would doubt there would be much if any speed improvement in writing a
Lisp interpreter for Python.  The current interpreter is written in C,
which optimizes quite nicely.  There could be some speed improvement by
*compiling* Python into Lisp.  But a great number of the reasons Python
isn't as fast as a fast Lisp has to do with semantic issues -- Python
has certain flexibilities that make it harder to optimize.

But of course it's not impossible to compile into Lisp, perhaps with
some advantages -- but why not introduce those same optimizations Lisp
has into CPython, Psycho, Plex, Numeric, or other Python efforts?  I
think that would actually be considerably easier.

  Ian




From chumphries at devis.com  Sun Nov 10 00:02:57 2002
From: chumphries at devis.com (Chris Humphries)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:02:57 -0500
Subject: Bug with getopt on sparc64?
Message-ID: <3DCDE881.B107CC74@devis.com>

hello all,
  
   while working on getting the python port for openbsd to compile,
 it seems to break when doing the "./python setup.py build".

spork:Python-2.1.2 {95} uname -m
sparc64
spork:Python-2.1.2 {89} cat test.py
print "hello world. this is just at test"
spork:Python-2.1.2 {91} ./python test.py 
Bus error (core dumped)
spork:Python-2.1.2 {92} gdb './python test.py' python.core
GNU gdb 4.16.1
...
Core was generated by `python'.
Program terminated with signal 10, Bus error.
#0  0x135408 in _PyOS_GetOpt ()

   I went looking thru the Python/getopt.c file, looking for maybe
something
 that was obvious, yet didnt. Can anyone help me out on this, or point
me in 
 the right direction? Why would this break?

thanks,
chris



From duncan at rcp.co.uk  Wed Nov 27 06:06:59 2002
From: duncan at rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:06:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <mailman.1038392977.32720.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>

"malik martin" <malik_martin at hotmail.com> wrote in 
news:mailman.1038392977.32720.python-list at python.org:

> Subject: do you guys help newbies??
Yes

> From: "malik martin" <malik_martin at hotmail.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> 
> <html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
> <P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
> <DIV></DIV>
> <DIV></DIV>
> 
but we prefer postings in plain text rather than HTML.

Post again, with your code but using plain text and we can try to 
help.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Nov  7 19:26:34 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:26:34 -0600
Subject: Newbie- how to basics
In-Reply-To: <8d3e714e.0211071600.2a98b136@posting.google.com> (cappy2112@yahoo.com's
 message of "7 Nov 2002 16:00:30 -0800")
References: <8d3e714e.0211071600.2a98b136@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m23cqcx5xh.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Tony" == Tony C <cappy2112 at yahoo.com> writes:
    Tony> Another useful feature would be command line history (up
    Tony> arrow, down arrow, etc), like in the Unix shells.

You may want to look at ipython, which has a number nice interactive
features in the shell: remembers previous commands between sessions,
TAb completion on variables/functions, history matching only the typed
cahracters, ....

http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython/

John Hunter



From ark at research.att.com  Wed Nov  6 14:18:08 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:18:08 GMT
Subject: idiom for initialising variables
References: <3dc964fa$0$12989@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <yu99u1iuld73.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Rob> I'm just wondering on the correct python idiom for initialising variables.
Rob> I see some code like this:

Rob> class myClass:
Rob>     self.a = 1
Rob>     def __init__(self):
Rob>         ...more stuff here

I doubt it -- the assignment to "self.a" should fail here
because "self" is undefined at that point.

How about posting an actual example?

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From joconnor at cybermesa.com  Fri Nov  8 02:46:30 2002
From: joconnor at cybermesa.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:46:30 +0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <20021108.115059.1034949299.9010@cybermesa.com> <uso37rcegqdpf6@corp.supernews.com> <20021108.121940.201305624.9010@cybermesa.com> <uso6sqgn3fmcb0@corp.supernews.com> <20021108.135935.824272813.9010@cybermesa.com>
Message-ID: <20021108.144617.387451659.9010@cybermesa.com>

In article <20021108.135935.824272813.9010 at cybermesa.com>, "Jay O'Connor"
<joconnor at cybermesa.com> wrote:

Typo

> set l1 "1 2 3"
> set l2 "4 5 6"
> set l3 [list $l1 $l2]
> set x [lindex [lindex $l3 1] 1]
> puts $x
> 
> results in '5'
> 
> using 'set x(1,1)
> results in an error


The actual code is
	set x $l3(1,1)

which results in 

Error: can't read "l3(1,1)": variable isn't array
    while executing
"set x $l3(1,1)"


From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Wed Nov  6 08:52:17 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:52:17 -0600
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk> <aqajfv$qqr$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <005701c2859b$b90c2080$ba01010a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Brown" <david at no.westcontrol.spam.com>

> Just for comparison, can you think of any two close-source packages that
> have the same licence?  Most suppliers seem to change their EULAs, Terms
and
> Conditions, etc., faster than they change their software.

Indeed, sometimes faster than they change their socks.

Read a EULA for a commercial product sometime; especially
one from the evil billionaire's club in Redmond.  Then
compare it to the GPL, for instance.  Even rabid GPL haters
must admit that the GPL is much less vicious and nasty
than anything from most commercial vendors.

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 14 13:59:43 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:59:43 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de> <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <3DD0D765.3030907@web.de> <3DD16CAF.41214BBA@alcyone.com> <m2el9qjd0f.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3DD1DE6A.1BBEFE5A@alcyone.com> <m2adkdk8ig.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3DD2 <7h3bs4sz9tw.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DD3F29F.E4882387@alcyone.com>

Michael Hudson wrote:

> Looks like, no.  Acts like, yes -- dynamic nature, manifest types,
> everything's an object (in some sense, not the Smalltalk one).

But surely you're not suggesting that these three features alone make a
language "Lisp-like," a term I'd use to mean something that looks and
acts to some degree like Lisp.

Python surely borrows some ideas from Lisp (naturally; nearly all
languages do), but I would hardly call Python a Lisp-like language. 
Python doesn't look like Lisp, the actual functional features most
strongly reminiscent of Lisp are optional features, and many of the
fundamental things attributed to Lisp-like languages (like cons cells)
are totally missing.

Python "acts like" Lisp in the same way that any dynamic,
manifestly-typed language does.  But surely that isn't what one means by
"Lisp-like languages," because in that case a far better description
would be, "dynamic, manifestly-typed languages."

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ History is a bucket of ashes.
\__/ Carl Sandburg
    EmPy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/
 A system for embedding arbitrary Python in template text as markup.


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov  5 20:47:21 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:47:21 -0800
Subject: Draw rectangle on a Window DC
References: <41c203e.0210210601.704098ba@posting.google.com> <d5r1pa.404.ln@ix.netcom.com> <41c203e.0211050103.29ca6c64@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9bs9qa.io3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Anand fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 05 November 2002 01:03 
am:

> Thanks Dennis. That technique worked.
> But since I use a XOR operator the outline of the rectangle
> does not have a unique color, but depends on the pixel color at (x,y).
>

        When the user releases the "drag" you can redraw the final rectangle 
in the desired solid color.

        The other means of maintaining a fixed color for rubber banding 
requires either lots of bit-planes with the resultant very large color 
lookup table OR the use of a display list with the allowance of display 
noise until finished.

        In the first case, say you need 128 colors for the display, and only 
one "overlay" (the rubber band). You allocate a color table for 256 
colors (1 overlay bit, 7 color bits). The first 128 entries in the 
lookup table are the desired colors -- the NEXT 128 entries are all set 
to the "rubberband" color. Drawing the line will be slow on most 
true-color/non-bitplane hardware as you draw the line by: 
set_pixel(get_pixel(x,y) OR 0x80, x, y) and "undraw" the line by 
set_pixel(get_pixel(x,y) AND 0x7F, x, y).

        Bit-plane hardware (the Commodore Amiga was one such system) 
simplifies the operation because they have settings for which 
bitplane(s) a draw operation will affect -- no need for the OR/AND bit 
manipulation. set_mask(0x80) {says only one bit will be modified in 
subsequent operations}; draw_line(0xFF, x1, y1, x2, y2) {draws}; 
draw_line(0x00, x1, y1, x2, y2) {erases line}.


        The second case requires a display list manager (GKS was one such). In 
this situation, you create a new "segment" with a unique ID. You draw 
with whatever color, and to erase when the rubberband moves you draw 
the background color. This will result in making a mess of the 
previously drawn data BUT... when the user releases the "drag" you 
delete the "segment", set the active segment to the base drawing 
segment, draw the final rectangle, and invoke a refresh of the display 
list (the manager than processes all the drawing commands that have 
been stored to recreate the display).

--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Nov 10 15:09:11 2002
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 22:09:11 +0200
Subject: Getting SSL certificate
References: <aeGy9.15988$6b.572415@news2.east.cox.net> <m3smycjztc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <kuisz8bhne.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <j48z04z2wy.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <kuel9tb314.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <j48z04z2wy.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de>,
loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. L?wis) writes:

| Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> writes:
|| in case it is so, this still does not let you at the server
|| certificate...

| Is there a missing here?

sorry, i had read the original question badly and did not notice he
ultimately wanted to verify it as per usual.

  -- erno


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Nov 26 03:37:17 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:37:17 GMT
Subject: rss.py for win32.
References: <Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP@195.112.4.37> <vdWdndYr6YGgGUKgXTWcpg@comcast.com> <Xns92D07E4887446DaveP@195.112.4.37> <slrnau205j.17d.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1pGE9.6591$1r1.259702@newsc.telia.net>

Wojtek Walczak wrote:

> BTW. take a look at asyncore module.

for more on asyncore and rss, start here:

    http://effbot.org/zone/effnews.htm

</F>




From ghillie at suse.de  Wed Nov 20 03:25:15 2002
From: ghillie at suse.de (Gernot Hillier)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:25:15 +0100
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <arfgtg$fhj$1@Fourier.suse.de>

Hi!

Thomas Heller wrote:
> When porting an extension from Windows to Linux, I got crashes when
> C code calls back into Python.
> 
> Here's what I'm doing:
> 
>     Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREAD
>     call_some_c_code()
>     Py_END_ALLOW_THREAD
> 
> The call_some_c_code() function calls back into Python, so I have to
> acquire the interpreter lock again, and create a new threadstate in
> the callback. Note that g_interp is initialized when the extension
> module is loaded:
> 
> static PyInterpreterState *g_interp;
> 
> void call_back_into_python(void)
> {
>     PyThreadState *pts;
> 
>     PyEval_AcquireLock();
>     pts = PyThreadState_New(g_interp);


I can't answer your question exactly - but I personally would suggest to not 
create a new thread state but doing it this way:

    Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREAD
    call_some_c_code(_save)
    Py_END_ALLOW_THREAD


If you don't understand this, please note that Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS 
expands to "{ PyThreadState *_save; _save = PyEval_SaveThread();".

call_some_c_code() has to pass the PyThreadState* to 
call_back_into_python(). There you should do s.th. like this:

void call_back_into_python(PyThreadState *s)
{
    PyEval_PyEval_RestoreThread(s)
    // do your work
    PyEval_SaveThread();
}
    
HTH...

-- 
Ciao,

Gernot


From irina at simbiosys.ca  Wed Nov 27 13:46:56 2002
From: irina at simbiosys.ca (Irina Szabo)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:46:56 -0500
Subject: re.DOTALL
Message-ID: <20021127184656.3DE1DD8F@saturn.simbiosys.ca>

I need to remove all tags from  HTML files.

matchstr = re.compile(r'''<.*?>''',re.DOTALL|re.MULTILINE)
print matchstr.sub(" ", str )

The program works well for  tags located on one line,
but dosn't  delete tags if  the brackets <> are on different lines, like

<!--
body {  font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: 
#000000}
-->

What is wrong? 

Irina Szabo



From larsga at garshol.priv.no  Mon Nov  4 05:39:42 2002
From: larsga at garshol.priv.no (Lars Marius Garshol)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 10:39:42 GMT
Subject: Examples of SGML parsing with a DTD in Python
References: <d02408fc.0210211329.aee4b15@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3adkpbous.fsf@pc36.avidiaasen.online.no>

* Ilya Shambat
| 
| Does anyone have any examples of parsing SGML code with a DTD in
| Python, whether through sgmllib or through nsgmls? I have read the
| documentation on both, but neither seem to address the issue of
| parsing SGML code with DTD. Does anyone have any examples of how this
| is done?

nsgmls uses the DTD, but sgmllib does not. If you want to use nsgmls
from Python you can either parse the ESIS output from nsgmls, or you
can use pysp:
  <URL: http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/pysp/ >

-- 
Lars Marius Garshol, Ontopian         <URL: http://www.ontopia.net >
ISO SC34/WG3, OASIS GeoLang TC        <URL: http://www.garshol.priv.no >


From engsol at teleport.com  Sat Nov  9 15:06:35 2002
From: engsol at teleport.com (engsol at teleport.com)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:06:35 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net> <slrnasmgl7.1dn.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3dcd6919.7324482@news.earthlink.net>

On 09 Nov 2002 04:53:13 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
<snip>
>> The first stumbling block is that the books offer examples of C code which
>> don't seem to have a main(). My compilers don't care for that too much.
>
>Your C compiler cares not a whit whether there's a main() or not. I suspect
>that your linker combined with your default C run time libraries do, though.

You're right! I looked at the compiler manual, and realized I'd set the defaults to
"compile/link" ( one-step source --> exe ). I compiled "nomain.c" in compile only mode,,
and it was as happy as a clam...thanks.

Norm




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Nov 14 09:34:37 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:34:37 GMT
Subject: property problems
References: <46a101c28bb2$6f2d1420$7635bcc3@blueyonder.net>
Message-ID: <1wOA9.85898$MGm1.48783@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

Old style class:

     class x:

New style class:

     class x(object):
     class y(x): # if x is defined with class x(object):

or

     class x(list):
     class x(str):
     class x(dict):
     ...

That is, a new-style class is a sub-class of a new-style class.  object,
list, str, and dict are convenient (and common) base-classes for
new-style classes.

HTH,
Mike

newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

 >Mike wrote :
 >
 >
 >
 >>Okay, there's a number of things going on here:
 >>
 >>   * properties only work (properly) with new-style classes, new-style
 >>    classes derive from other new-style classes, normally "object".
 >>     Your class GlobalVars is an old-style class.  Derive from object
 >>    to prevent problems which _will_ come up later on.
 >>
 >>
 >
 >What defines my class as an old-style class? How would I turn it into 
a new class?
 >
 >
...
_______________________________________
   Mike C. Fletcher
   Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
   http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 18 12:33:52 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 17:33:52 GMT
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <ar4rgh$nj2$1@panix3.panix.com> <ar5r65$uq6$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD85526.6020606@something.invalid> <ar9oqi$oil$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1037623768.14227.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arb8a0$rfm$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 06:47:54 -0600, Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:

>On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 04:03:30AM +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>> IOW, IMO there ought to be a way to do a temporary global-side-effect-free
>> import and delete all traces of its having been done -- without restarting
>> the interpreter or invoking a second interpreter instance.
>
>Let us know when you've implemented it.
>
>Some of the problems:
>
>Modules need not be side-effect-free.  For instance, the following is a
That's not a problem, that's a feature ;-)
I didn't mean that all modules should be free of side effects or bindings
that force their persistence. Most of the time you want some side effects,
but you may want only the side effect to persist, not the module.

<eg>
E.g., if you had a program that needs a lot of memory and does processing
in distinct phases. Obviously you can split the job into separate programs
that use temp files. But what if you want use memory to communicate between
phases? E.g., load a module that retrieves data from the net, another that
parses it and builds convenient data structures, another that requires an
interactive GUI to classify visually presented data, another to create a backup
of clean data and editing log, another to generate pdf reports, etc. etc.
The succeeding phases are going to suffer from memory squeeze if you can't
unload modules that you no longer need.

If you load a module that needs another, of course reference counting should
work as it does, but when you unload a module explicitly, IMO it ought to be
a bit like clearing a dict. A lot of references will get decremented, and
some will go to zero. Why not a module's reference count, to let it disappear
when no longer needed (or have it held in an LRU cache to be bumped as necessary)?
</eg>

>(very harmful) legal Python module:
>    from os import system
>    system("rm -rf /")
>
>Modules may refer to other modules, so you'll need to make any other
>"import"s that happen during that time special.
Yes.

>
>Unloading C modules may not work on all platforms, and may never be
>possible when there are references to objects in the module.
>
Sure, there are all kinds of circumstances when objects legitimately keep
others alive, and that would have to include modules. But I don't see that
as a problem for cases where you program not to do that.

>If any nontrivial object from the module is kept, the module will be around
>anyway, even if it's not listed in sys.modules.  Functions hold a reference
>to the module's globals, for instance.  Any non-trivial class has methods,
>and any interesting object is an instance.
Why would functions *always* hold a reference to the module's global name space,
if it made no use of it? In anticipation of an exec that might? I'm willing for
that to raise an exception if I've unloaded the module. Likewise I'll accept '?'
for various inspection trails that I've cut off. (Maybe some e.g. inspection-supporting
stuff would have to get weak references for private imports, or soemthing
like that).

>
>I think that the presence of modules in sys.modules is used by the system
>to break cycles like that of functions.  At cleanup, a module's dictionary
>is cleared which breaks the module->function->module cycles and allows
>collection.
>
>It's still not exactly clear to me what all these complications would gain
>me anyway...

Mainly recovering memory space for re-use.
See <eg></eg> above, and I'm sure you can
think of other scenarios. I'm not saying there
are no workarounds, but I do think there are cases
where a clean unload could be useful.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Nov 24 11:12:14 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:12:14 -0500
Subject: Uninstalling Python hoses dll -- not
In-Reply-To: <ri6E9.26421$Hs2.3700995@kent.svc.tds.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEBOCPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Edward K. Ream]
> Recently I reported that uninstalling Python 2.1.x hosed a dll on
> XP.  That report was greeted with skepticism.

Only because it was unique, and implausible.

> Indeed, I am still having problems with that dll, so Python appears
> to be completely in the clear.  My apologies for jumping to
> conclusions.

Well, you never know.  Some Windows problems never get solved, and I suppose
it's possible they're all Python's fault.  Or Notepad's.




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Thu Nov 28 13:20:49 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 19:20:49 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <3DE57D7B.D4A80CE8@alcyone.com>; from max@alcyone.com on Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 06:20:43PM -0800
References: <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE040DF.EACC7D3A@kolumbus.fi> <yfsbs4ebhnl.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE2AEFE.BF188406@kolumbus.fi> <3DE2B626.6000009@nyc.rr.com> <uu7nuvsbgno1c7@news.supernews.com> <mailman.1038438422.29267.python-list@python.org> <3DE57D7B.D4A80CE8@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20021128192049.U11257@prim.han.de>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> holger krekel wrote:
> 
> > How does the introduction of 'yield' break old code?
> 
> If you had used a variable named yield, it won't work anymore.

obvious, isn't it? 

But who would use yield as an identifier name, anyway?

:-)'ly yours, holger



From Padraig at Linux.ie  Fri Nov 15 06:33:03 2002
From: Padraig at Linux.ie (Padraig Brady)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:33:03 GMT
Subject: Reverse dictionnary
References: <nkz4rajw3ln.fsf@pinel.shfj.cea.fr>
Message-ID: <3DD4DAF2.5040903@Linux.ie>

Julien Barbot wrote:
> Hi,
> Does "reverse dictionnary" exists in python ?
> I would like to get a value with the key, and to get the key with the value
> For example:
> d1 = {1:"str1", 2:"str2" }
> 
> d1.getvalue(1) give me "str1"
> and 
> g1.getkey("str1") give me 1

The (hash) mapping is one way only.
Consider d1 = {1:"str1", 2:"str2", 3:"str2"}
What would you do in this case?
If your sure there is a one to one mapping
and you only want to store the data once
and have a slow reverse mapping you could do.

d1.keys()[d1.values().index('str1')]

P?draig.



From tool_man at spamcop.net  Wed Nov 20 15:46:34 2002
From: tool_man at spamcop.net (Tim Lavoie)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 14:46:34 -0600
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBB8BD.6020806@web.de> <h3intucpgk2dg6vhul96pg5epcfva8o8ll@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87ptt0otp1.fsf@theasylum.dyndns.org>

>>>>> "C//" == Courageous  <jkraska at san.rr.com> writes:

    >> Common Lisp is not designed for newbies but for experts.

    C//> This little oft-repeated meme is exactly what has consigned
    C//> Common Lisp to the dust bin of programming history.

No, I don't think so, it is more likely to boil down to syntax phobias
and lack of useful exposure. I'm sure Common Lisp would be more
popular if Microsoft adopted it, so we could trip over "Common Lisp
for Dummies" books at Wal-Mart... but I'm not convinced that that
would be a good thing.

I prefer that my tools are well-designed and built, with logical
forethought put into their way of doing things. CL and Python both
fall into this category, so I'm happy with both. If they become
popular, that's nice, someone's saved me some work if I want to
justify their use to management. If they're not watered down to the
lowest common denominator for the ignorant masses, I'm OK with
that. It's not the "dust bin of programming history", it's just the
road less travelled.

        Tim

--
The idea that an arbitrary naive human should be able to properly use
a given tool without training or understanding is even more wrong for
computing than it is for other tools (e.g. automobiles, airplanes,
guns, power saws).  -- Doug Gwyn



From paul at boddie.net  Wed Nov  6 10:27:00 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 07:27:00 -0800
Subject: Jython - ok to obfuscate code?
References: <uH6y9.44584$Lg2.12105314@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0211060727.7e422788@posting.google.com>

"Robert Oschler" <Oschler at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<uH6y9.44584$Lg2.12105314 at news2.news.adelphia.net>...
> If I distribute an app that is written Jython stored in a JAR with other
> Java code I've written, is it ok to obfuscate all the code in the JAR,
> including the Jython classes?

I don't believe any black helicopters will be landing on your roof if
you do decide to do that, but I'd recommend using jythonc on your
Jython sources and putting the resulting classes in that jar file.

Paul


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Nov  3 10:29:39 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Nov 2002 10:29:39 -0500
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <3dc52a19.3339913@news.cybermesa.com>
Message-ID: <aq3fd3$fv$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3dc52a19.3339913 at news.cybermesa.com>,
Jay O'Connor <joconnor at cybermesa.com> wrote:
>On 1 Nov 2002 23:06:06 -0500, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>>
>>So I've been having a friendly argument for a long time with a friend of
>>mine who's a real Java booster.  The current iteration was sparked by a
>>discussion of extreme programming, where along the way I repeated what
>>some people here have mentioned about Python being easier to refactor
>>than Java.  She asked me what -- if any -- Java-based tools were used by
>>the experienced Java programmers who made that claim.  She thinks that
>>those tools are superior to plain text editors (which are really all
>>that's needed for Python).
>>
>>Anyone wanna help me out here?
>
>Nope, sorry.  I really like Python, but I still miss the development
>tools I have when using Smalltalk

I'm afraid I was insufficiently clear: I'm looking for people who are
familiar with using refactoring tools with Java but still find Python
easier to refactor.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Project Vote Smart: http://www.vote-smart.org/


From pereira at cis.upenn.edu  Sun Nov 10 16:36:04 2002
From: pereira at cis.upenn.edu (Fernando Pereira)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:36:04 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>

On 11/10/02 3:25 PM, in article
mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list at python.org, "David Garamond"
<davegaramond at icqmail.com> wrote:
> my only point is and
> has been that people don't like the syntax.
Most people don't like math either, or quantum cosmology. So? Science is not
a popularity contest, except on the pages of the general press.
> syntax matters, so all the
> other things that lisp has can't attract them to embrace and stay with
> lisp. and that's a shame, but that's the way it is.
This whole discussion, based as it is on untested assumptions, reminds one
of the fallacy of "survival is determined by good design" prevalent in
popular misinterpretations of evolutionary theory as well as in much
misguided moral philosophy. One could as well argue that the failure of Lisp
is that its inventors spent too much time fighting each other over trivia
rather than focusing on creating great libraries and applications to make it
valuable to others. There was a window of opportunity from the late 70s to
the late 80s, but the Lisp community bet on Lisp machines, dialect variants,
and narrow application niches (AI in particular). In addition, all the best
Lisp implementations were either proprietary or tied to exotic platforms.
Much effort was wasted by all, allowing other languages to claim a territory
that could have been naturally Lisp's.

In summary, Lisp's problem is that it had no BDFL.

-- F



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 25 17:50:56 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 14:50:56 -0800
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
In-Reply-To: <slrnau5ahl.q7v.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>
	 <slrnau5ahl.q7v.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <1038264655.1697.137.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Mon, 2002-11-25 at 14:50, Robin Munn wrote:
> Timothy Rue <threeseas at earthlink.net> wrote:
> [Snip a large IRC log]
> > ThreeSeas I'm a genius... If I can't answer your question I will try and make
>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > out that you don't know what you are talking about..... but are there really
> > 120 users here that hail to ...... dash
> 
> A free piece of advice for you. It's been my experience, along with the
> experience of many others, that anybody who claims publicly to be a
> genius:
> 
> a) Almost certainly has an ego problem, and
> 
> b) Usually isn't worth listening to.

I would shorten the second to

b) Usually isn't.

It's odd how someone who purports to be a genius can be so stupid when
it comes to dealing with people.  Since he seems to be incapable of
communicating with anyone on any level, I wonder how he is able to
compare his own intelligence with that of others.

> I'm afraid that you won't find too many people on this newsgroup
> sympathetic to you until you approach matters with a little humility and
> begin first by considering the possibility that you might be wrong. If
> you start by assuming "I'm must be right, therefore anybody who doesn't
> agree with me is an idiot," you will find that very few people are
> willing to listen to you.
> 
> I, in fact, am not one of those people willing to listen to you. If you
> reply to this message, I won't see your reply; my newsreader will filter
> it out automatically.

I've considered filtering him every time he posts, but sometimes I need
the laughs.  I really enjoyed the post of his IRC session.  Pure comedy
(and a lot better than his usual material).

Perhaps the Ruebot should be considered for honorary "Village Idiot"
status on c.l.py.  The subject line on all of his posts could be
prefixed with "[Comedy Relief]" to help avoid misunderstandings.


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 14 07:09:41 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:09:41 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <7h3smy5zj8k.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqulgk$qj$2@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <7h37kfgz782.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

maney at pobox.com writes:

> Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:
> > come up with it.  Isn't there a pithy quote along the lines of
> > "constraints spark creativity"?
> 
> Form is liberating?  Though a slightly mangled old saw like "desperation is
> the mother of invention" seems more like what you're looking for.  :-)

Yeah, I thought about that one, but I sem to remember another
one... oh well, doesn't matter.

> > The only biggy for me is the lack of Lisp style (with-... ) macros;
> > which of these do you prefer:
> > 
> > def 
> 
> You got cutoff here, or the article got truncated on its way.  Want to try
> again?  I expect I'd enjoy seeing what you were going to say.

Ah yes, I went away to try and come up with a good example, got
distracted, and so on.

Consider this code from Python's getpass module:

    old = termios.tcgetattr(fd)     # a copy to save
    new = old[:]

    new[3] = new[3] & ~termios.ECHO # 3 == 'lflags'
    try:
        termios.tcsetattr(fd, termios.TCSADRAIN, new)
        passwd = _raw_input(prompt)
    finally:
        termios.tcsetattr(fd, termios.TCSADRAIN, old)

In CL if you wanted to do this sort of thing often you'd write
something like (making up interface names as I go):

(defmacro with-invisible-input (fd &body body)
  (let ((old-state (gensym))
        (new-state (gensym)
        (fd-var (gensym)))
    `(let* ((,old-state (termios:tcgetattr ,fd))
            (,new-state (termios:copy-state ,old-state))
            (,fd-var ,fd))
       (setf (termios:lflags ,new-state) 
             (logior (termios:lflags ,new-state) termios:echo))
       (termios:tcsetattr ,fd-var ,new-state)
       (unwind-protect
         ,body
         (termios:tcsetattr ,fd-var ,old-state))))))

which isn't exactly pretty, but now the above Python becomes:

(with-invisible-input 
  (funcall input-func prompt))

which *is* better.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  But since your post didn't lay out your assumptions, your goals,
  or how you view language characteristics as fitting in with 
  either, you're not a *natural* candidate for embracing Design by 
  Contract <0.6 wink>.    -- Tim Peters, giving Eiffel adoption advice


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Nov 21 07:54:03 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:54:03 +0100
Subject: [OT] Reciprocal function?
Message-ID: <aril5k$e07$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Hi All,

Suppose I have these functions:

def rowinc(x,base):
    i,j = 0,1
    while i <= x:
        j = j * base
        i = i + j
    return j

def concat(a,b,base):
    f = rowinc(b,base)
    return f*(a+1)+b

And, for the moment, lets assume "base" is fixed to the value 2.

Then concat(9,5,2) will return 45.
But concat(3,13,2) will also return 45.

In fact if the number that concat returns is known, and the "base"
argument is also known, the function below can be used to calculate
how many other tuples (a,b) will have the same result:
        
def seqlen(x,base):
    i,j,k = 0,1,0
    while i <= x:
        j = j * base
        i = i + j
        k = k + 1
    return k

So seqlen(45,2) returns 5. The number of possible tuples (a,b) that
make concat(a,b,2) return 45 is seqlen(45,2)-1 which is 4.

As an example:

For (a,b) in [(0, 29), (3, 13), (9, 5), (21, 1)], concat(a,b,2)
returns 45 and there are no other tuples (a,b) that return 45 for
concat(a,b,2).

Now I need a function that looks a bit like this:

def splitat(i,a,base):
	"""
	returns the i'th tuple (x,y) out of the set of possible
	tuples that make concat(x,y,base) return a
	"""
    return x,y

Any pointers appreciated. At the moment I have some way of getting the
desired output, but the detour the code makes to get at it is so big
that I'd rather have some fresh input instead of posting the code
here.

Regards,

		Anton.



From costanza at web.de  Tue Nov 19 13:14:33 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:14:33 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <44d4f61c.0211181708.465f5838@posting.google.com> <3DDA7385.2020609@nyc.rr.com> <eppstein-C621D0.09384719112002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <ardv29$24s$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

David Eppstein wrote:
> In article <3DDA7385.2020609 at nyc.rr.com>,
>  Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> wrote:

>>The numbers I hear are that CL runs on average 20% slower than C.
> 
> 
> This is after how many decades of Lisp compiler development?

About two to three. But your question sounds like a rhetoric one? What's 
your argument?


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Fri Nov 15 15:11:58 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:11:58 GMT
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211151030200.643-100000@ns0.tbye.com> <mailman.1037382746.348.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c6katugug6oqtqjarqlpf6gptlfnqpkg9a@4ax.com>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:50:39 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net>
wrote:
(edit)
>waiting-for-someone-to-ask-for-class-comprehensions-ly y'rs  - tim

NewClass = [WrapInsideProperty(attribute) for attribute in OldClass]

would be nice.

FastClass = [ImplementAsCExtension(method) for method in SlowClass if
UsedAlotAndRunsTooSlow(method)]

would be very nice.

Python 2.4?

Manuel


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 15 12:44:27 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:44:27 -0500
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <mailman.1037224700.11546.python-list@python.org> <m3ptt9p0rw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <ar0cso$iua$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3r8doxkem.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <ar2kl9$1nd$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <ooWcnQvXK-WmrEigXTWc3w@comcast.com>

"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote in message
news:ar2kl9$1nd$1 at news.hccnet.nl...
> That sounds reasonable but the problem is that as the receiver of a
> donation you are not in a good bargaining position.

As a non-developer who has watched the bug fix process mostly as a
lurker, this strikes me as backwards.  The developers who fix bugs
are, on net, givers more that takers.  On the other hand, most bug
reports come from people who are asking to get a fix for their
problems.  So submitters are the ones who are not in a good
'bargaining position'.  Given that perhaps half of fixes requiere
further communication with the submitter, it strikes me as entirely
reasonable that fixers ask for an id connected to an email as a
condition of adding a gift request to the current and somewhat stable
pool of about 300.

Terry J. Reedy




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Nov 21 02:59:41 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 08:59:41 +0100
Subject: Checking for nonzero-ness using Python C-API
References: <mailman.1037849489.18897.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3r8dfuzde.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Gerhard Haering <gerhard.haering at gmx.de> writes:

> How do I check for the nonzero-ness of a PyObject using the Python C-API?

Use PyObject_IsTrue.

Regards,
Martin


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Wed Nov 20 03:23:05 2002
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 08:23:05 +0000
Subject: Updating A Tkinter Window every 100 ms?
In-Reply-To: <b4d1dd0c.0211191629.3454e274@posting.google.com>
References: <b4d1dd0c.0211191629.3454e274@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1037780585.1259.24.camel@m-franklin>

On Wed, 2002-11-20 at 00:29, Josiah wrote:
> I would like to create the TK dialog with a "Update" function that
> will run every 100 ms. A self calling function. Inside this fuction, I
> want to call "lift()" to keep the window on top of all the others, and
> I want to call another function that will update other things.
>  Could some look at my sample code and please give me some feedback?
> Is there a better way? Why does the "lift()" function not work with
> "self.master.lift()"?
> 
> Thanks for any help with this.
> Josiah
> 
> 
> ##############################################################
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> class App:
>  def __init__(self, master):
>    frame = Frame(master) 
>    frame.grid()
> 
>  def Do_Stuff(self):
>    pass 
> 
>  def Update(self):
>    self.Do_Stuff() 
>    root.lift() 

try tkraise() here on root, it seems to work on my Linux box it may not
work on all platforms)

I have to ask why... 


>    root.after(100, self.Update)
> 
> root = Tk()
> app = App(root)
> app.Update()
> root.mainloop()
> ###############################################################
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Thu Nov 21 13:08:52 2002
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:08:52 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <87u1ib6bte.fsf@key.localdomain> <3u3D9.49382$Yw.2293340@news2.tin.it> <874rabdo3t.fsf@key.localdomain> <5r6D9.50977$Yw.2347638@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <Ui9D9.1536$mr2.53738@news1.west.cox.net>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:5r6D9.50977$Yw.2347638 at news2.tin.it...
> Patrick W wrote:
>
> > Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

[Nice neat solution for rock-paper-scissors]

[More complicated solution for more extensible rock-paper-scissors]

> so I could somebeat.addpair(aclass, another) to mean than an instance
> of aclass 'beats' one of another unconditionally (when evaluated by
> the criteria in somebeat), or somebeat.addpair(Ba, Bo, pp) to mean
> that for instances of Ba and Bo the 'beating' or otherwise is to be
> decided by calling pp (which must be callable, to mean that:-) with
> the instances as arguments.  And once again that's a small further
> notch in complication which I'd be paying for a flexibility gain.
>
> So, I do miss multiple dispatching, which would let me avoid this
> infrastructure building just like I can avoid it in the more common
> single dispatch case.
>
> But I don't miss it ENOUGH to wish that Python had macros (shudder)...:-).
> Not by a long shot, in fact...

The interesting thing is that as far as I know, no one has put together a
module to simulate multiple dispatch. Or if they have, they haven't pushed
it very hard. I don't think it would be all that hard really, just a tad
more complicated than what you had above. Something similar to what I have
below would probably work, although the performance might not be the best.
Once you have a Dispatcher class (like the one below only better
presumably), writing multiple dispatch functions would be a piece of cake.

-tim


# Rock-Paper-Scissors as an excuse to simulate multiple dispatch.


def argsmatchsig(args, sig):
    if len(args) != len(sig):
        return 0
    for a, s in zip(args, sig):
        if not isinstance(a, s):
            return 0
    return 1

class Dispatcher:
    def __init__(self, table=()):
        self.table = list(table)
    def __call__(self, *args):
        """Try rules in order, calling the first matching rule"""
        for rule, func in self.table:
            if argsmatchsig(args, rule):
                return func(*args)
        raise TypeError("%s instance cannot be called with args types %s" %
                            (self.__class__.__name__,
                            tuple([type(x) for x in args])))
    def add_rule(self, sig, func):
        """Add new rule -- the new rule is tried before all existing
rules"""
        self.table.insert(0, (sig, func))
    def remove_rule(self, sig):
        """Remove the first rule with the given signature."""
        for s, f in self.table:
            if s == sig:
                self.table.remove((s, f))

class Thing(object): pass
class Rock(Thing): pass
class Paper(Thing): pass
class Scissors(Thing): pass
rock, paper, scissors = Rock(), Paper(), Scissors()

def return_true(*args):
    return 1
def return_false(*args):
    return 0

beats = Dispatcher([((Rock, Scissors), return_true),
                    ((Scissors, Paper), return_true),
                    ((Paper, Rock), return_true),
                    ((Thing, Thing), return_false)])


print beats(rock, scissors) # prints 1
print beats(paper, scissors) # prints 0

class Fire(Thing): pass
fire = Fire()

beats.add_rule((Fire, Thing), lambda a, b : "Fire always wins!")

print beats(fire, rock) # prints "Fire always wins!"
print beats(fire, paper) # prints "Fire always wins!"
print beats(scissors, rock) # prints 0

beats.remove_rule((Fire, Thing))

print beats(fire, rock) # prints 0
print beats(fire, paper) # prints 0
print beats(scissors, rock) # prints 0

print beats(scissors, "") # Raises a TypeError




From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Nov 13 14:46:00 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:46:00 -0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns92C5C92001CEEdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) wrote 
> In the current setup, such a system is not required. I believe it
> would be possible to implement, though, given the existing TeX->XML
> tool.
> 
> However, it is not clear to what the value would be of completing the
> circle, given that the XML is of no use.

Martin, your prejudice is showing; very badly :-)

Regards DaveP.


From txo at cs.nott.ac.uk  Tue Nov 12 11:19:53 2002
From: txo at cs.nott.ac.uk (Turhan Ozen)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:19:53 +0000
Subject: Installing dislin (scientific data plotting software)
Message-ID: <3DD12A29.8B34ED2C@cs.nott.ac.uk>

I downloaded dl-80-py.zip and after unzipping, I installed dislin, then
I added the following lines to the autoexec.bat:

SET DISLIN = c:\program files\dislin
SET PYTHONPATH = C:\program files\dislin\python

But It seems that I have not installed it properly. When I choose the
dislin or readme files from from the windows2000's start>programs>dispy,
I get an error message dialogue box with the title "readme" and message
"Open error in c:\program".  When I try to use dislin in python it
either crashes (doesn't respond and I have to end the program or gives
the same dialogue box output or just quits python. I can import the
dislin module but I can't use the plot function. And if I go to the
dislin/python folder and double-click on the sample python files there
the graphs are plotted. One more item that I want to mention is I use
windows extensions to python (win32all-148). Numerical Python
(Numeric-22.0.win32-py2.2) is the only other module installed at the
moment.

I would be most grateful if you could explain to me what is wrong and
what I could do in order to be able to use dislin or direct me to a
source that contains the answer to my problem.

Best regards,
Turhan

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From i.linkweiler at web.de  Fri Nov  1 07:37:33 2002
From: i.linkweiler at web.de (Ingo Linkweiler)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:37:33 +0100
Subject: MySQL + Python.
References: <3DC1783F.5000003@web.de> <3DC272F4.4010905@web.de>
Message-ID: <3DC2758D.5020806@web.de>

> c=db.cursor(???DictCursor???) ????

2 minutes later I found the solution:

e=db.cursor(MySQLdb.cursors.DictCursor)

Ingo



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Nov 23 19:57:44 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:57:44 -0500
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <JZmdnSuX451BuX2gXTWc3A@comcast.com>

"smartcardware.com" <questions at smartcardware.com> wrote in message
news:2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5 at posting.google.com...
> Greetings!  I am the lead developer in a upcoming game company that
> will start work on a new game at the beginning of 2003.  We are
(like
> everyone else in the gaming industry right now) searching for a
> scripting language to use in our game.  I've heard that Python is a
> great scripting language with one downfall for game
> designers/programmers.  That is that you must embed your code into
> Python, instead of convensional scripting langauges where you embed
> the scripting language into your code.  Basically we want to use
> scripting languages for AI, game items stats, player stats, and a
few
> other things.  We'll use an advanced 3d engine (C++) for the rest.
>    What we don't want to have to develope our code around Python,
> rather develope our code and embed Python to fit our code when and
> where we desire.

Though you do have the choice, as other have said, I would not think
that driving the graphics engine from Python would necessarily be bad.
You might want to look at what others have done.  Blade of Darkness,
for one, delivered the .py files (fairly readable) with the game, or
at least with the demo.

What I would really like to see, as a gamer, would be user-scripting
with Python.  If not in/for the game itself as delivered, at least for
mod editing.  I think GPG, for instance, blew it when they designed
and implemented yet another scripting language for Dungeon Siege
instead of using Python (and putting more work into the game itself).

Terry J. Reedy





From bh at intevation.de  Tue Nov 19 06:59:06 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 12:59:06 +0100
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037695591.4360.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6qk7j9ahyt.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer) writes:

> Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> I'm using python-mode 4.11. 
[...]
> 
> Time machine?

No, CVS

> python.org only has 4.6.

The CVS version is 4.28 (unless it has changed since yesterday :) )

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/


From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Wed Nov 13 15:27:08 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 20:27:08 GMT
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C5C92001CEEdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <slrnat5d1t.17k.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <Xns92C5C92001CEEdpawsonfreeservecouk at 216.168.3.44>, DaveP wrote:
> martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) wrote 
>> In the current setup, such a system is not required. I believe it
>> would be possible to implement, though, given the existing TeX->XML
>> tool.
>> 
>> However, it is not clear to what the value would be of completing the
>> circle, given that the XML is of no use.
> 
> Martin, your prejudice is showing; very badly :-)

Martin is one of the project leaders of the PyXML project ;-)

Perhaps you ought to get involved with XML a little more to learn to hate it
<0.4 wink>

While I use Docbook and XML from time to time, I really can't understand all
the hype about XML. Just think about the acronym: E_x_tensible _M_arkup
_L_anguage. This means you can create all sorts of languages for all sorts of
application domains with it.  It standardizes the syntax of these languages, so
that if you can parse one, you can parse any.

But XML says *nothing* about semantics. So the *real* problems stay just as
hard as they were before.

Now these hard problems have already been solved for the current Python doc
system.  And IMO it doesn't matter much what the documentation source is
written in, be it a subset of LaTex or some form of Docbook.
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From donnal at donnal.net  Fri Nov  8 11:42:39 2002
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 08:42:39 -0800
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <mailman.1036682796.1417.python-list@python.org> <aqeisp$mdn$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <918bc22f.0211080842.7ea0a348@posting.google.com>

(Anton Vredegoor):
> All this is giving me a headache so I'd better quit.

My original question was answered clearly, and as a result I am
preparing a BSD license for Project 1 instead of piggybacking on the
PSF license. Thank you everyone for the thought-provoking comments
regarding Project 2. Today I joined the Openhealth mailing list, where
I intend to pursue these issues in greater detail.

When I have something to release, I will return here with an
announcement. :)Now back to lurking (I learn so much from this
newsgroup/list).

Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital


From zimmermann.edv at t-online.de  Thu Nov 28 04:53:02 2002
From: zimmermann.edv at t-online.de (Bernd Zimmermann)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:53:02 +0100
Subject: variable not being added, help
References: <pan.2002.11.28.08.36.04.997032.60987@nothanks.foo>
Message-ID: <as4p1v$nu65i$2@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de>

"stibbs" <stibbs at nothanks.foo> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:pan.2002.11.28.08.36.04.997032.60987 at nothanks.foo...
> i'm 100% sure the mistake is on my part, but i can't seem to figure out
> what the problem is, as you can see by my comment in the code i tried 2
> different ways. I am trying to add to pw_attempts and have it stick.
>
>
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
>
> import sys
>
> username = raw_input("username?\n")
>
> def getpass():
> try:
> pw_attempts
> except NameError:
> pw_attempts = 0
>
> password1 = raw_input("password?\n")
> password2 = raw_input("re-enter password.\n")
> #pw_attempts = pw_attempts + 1
>
> if password1 != password2:
> pw_attempts = pw_attempts + 1
>
> if pw_attempts > 2:
> sys.exit()
> print pw_attempts
> print "your password does not match! Try again\n"
> getpass()
> else:
> pass
> getpass()
> print "Passwords Matched!"




From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Mon Nov 25 13:45:10 2002
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:45:10 +0100
Subject: Perl to python convertor
References: <3dd94531$1@news.mt.net.mk> <mailman.1037662471.17451.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE26FB6.3040106@mplusr.de>

holger krekel schrieb:
> P.S.: you email and everything came as a series of ???

Ich nehme an, Du verstehst Deutsch :-) Die Fragezeichen sind
kyrillische Buchstaben. Du mu?t die entsprechenden Fonts und
Codeseiten installieren und eine e-mail-Software verwenden, die
mehrere Zeichenkodierungen lesen kann (Stichworte Codeseiten,
Unicode etc.).

Mit freundlichen Gr??en,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sun Nov  3 08:41:51 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 08:41:51 -0500
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on OS/390 V2R10
References: <3dc40ef1_1@news.vo.lu> <us8rhmg4f2iac1@news.supernews.com> <3dc50045_2@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <usa9i1cbjampc6@news.supernews.com>

"pu" <pu at myRealBox.com> wrote in message news:3dc50045_2 at news.vo.lu...
> > If it runs under USS, then it's callable from JCL. Check your JCL
> > manual for the method of running Posix programs. I seriously
> > doubt that it would be accessable from CICS, and I wonder
> > why anyone would want to?
>
> Well, I could imagine writing a CICS program / transaction that's
written in
> Python, same as for REXX; but basically you are right.
>
> > If someone wants to _hire_ me to do the port I'll send you my
> > email address privately.
>
> I am currently doing a small study to see how and if Python might be
used by
> our three teams (Windows, AIX and OS/390). I doubt that it will be an
option
> for the latter, they just adore REXX, especially under TSO, for
scripting.
>
> Anyway, I'll let this newsgroup know if porting REXX to OS/390 is an
option.

I presume you meant porting Python [grin.] However, the problem
escalates significantly if you want to duplicate REXX's integration with
TSO. That's a closed interface, so I'd have to brush off my MVS hacking
skills to get it in.

Also, I believe REXX is availible for all three environments. AFIC, it's
a typical kludge scripting language, but it does work.

John Roth

> Thanks for your answer.
> -Patrick
>
>




From mikael at isy.liu.se  Thu Nov 28 03:36:46 2002
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:36:46 +0100
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
In-Reply-To: <3DE59F4F.1090004@something.invalid>
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list@python.org>
	<3DE59F4F.1090004@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <20021128093646.05bd0560.mikael@isy.liu.se>

Me, myself and I wrote about about defining here and executing there:
> >   Is that behaviour intended?
> >   Is it likely to stay that way?

Greg Ewing answered:
> Yes and yes. [snip clarifying stuff]

I also wrote on the same topic:
> >   Is there an obvous way to have f (still defined in A) manipulate
> >   objects in B when executed in B?

Greg said:
> Don't know whether it counts as "obvious", but I
> think there is a way (short of using exec):
> 
>    import new
>    g = new.function(f.func_code, B.__dict__)
> 
> This creates a new function g which has the
> same code as f but a different global namespace.
> 
> (You can't just change f.func_globals directly
> because it's a read-only attribute, unfortunately.)

Thanks Greg, especially for this snippet. It does the job, and it has
the advantage of being readable. And thanks to others who also answered.
Not that I understand everything about Python internals, but I do feel
enlightened by your replies.

Greetings
/Mikael

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From joconnor at cybermesa.com  Mon Nov  4 05:28:03 2002
From: joconnor at cybermesa.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:28:03 +0700
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
Message-ID: <20021104.172803.1272469786.14828@cybermesa.com>

In article <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan at esperanto.org>, "Daniel
Pfeiffer" <occitan at esperanto.org> wrote:

> Then no matter whether running a Perl 6, Python, Ruby, Tcl maybe even
> bash script the same interpreter library would be used.  Then likely it
> would already be in memory speeding up start time.

I for one have two thoughts about the continued success of Python.  First
because I like Python and want to keep using it.  Second is that the more
people that use Python, hopefully the less people that will use TCL

Take care,
Jay


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 22 04:37:17 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:37:17 GMT
Subject: With what module can Python handel *.tar.gz file?
References: <mailman.1037947830.13867.python-list@python.org> <3DDDD84A.618E9F81@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <hVmD9.55563$Yw.2549391@news2.tin.it>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> You wrote:
> 
>> Buddies, I have a file named  ***.tar.gz, and I want to gunzip it with
>> Python. With which modules can I accomplish this task? And how to?
> 
> There's a gzip module.

Yep, gzip is in the standard library, but tar unfortunately isn't (yet).

http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/4395/fid/538
or Zope's tar.py can perhaps help.  Alternatively:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-August/060018.html


Alex



From dirkREMOVE at c3THISTOO.be  Mon Nov 25 10:45:23 2002
From: dirkREMOVE at c3THISTOO.be (Dirk Schippers)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:45:23 +0100
Subject: Running scripts from C
Message-ID: <3de2458e$0$191$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

Hi,

I have several python scripts which I run from my C program.
Everything works fine unless I use an import of an mx library in my scripts.
When I run the script in PythonWin, it works fine, but when using the C
program,
I get the exception importerror on mxDateTime.
Also strange is that the error states mxDateTime, while I use this line for
import:
from mx.Datetime import * (with a dot between mx and DateTime).

What am I doing wrong?
I use the Py_Initialize() and my PYTHONHOME and PYTHONPATH are correct I
think.
Copying the mx-directory into the c:\program files\python\lib\... directory
also doesn't do the trick.

Can anyone help me?

Thanks!
Regards,
Dirk.

ps. When replying to my email: remove the REMOVE and the THISTOO part...




From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Tue Nov  5 16:11:26 2002
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 21:11:26 GMT
Subject: Need simple algorithm for newbie
References: <d1a9617c.0211040433.1eddb118@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aq9c5t$80l6q$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>

Jason Tudisco <tudisco at sexmagnet.com> wrote:
> I have a list of domains... Some of the domain names in the list look
> like this:
> 
> groups.goodle.com
> 
> The information I want is just google.com. I need to know the best way
> to do this.. for .com .net .org only.. and to strip the rest of the
> garbage.. like in this case.. get rid of groups in groups.google.com
> 
> I need to parse though a huge list so it has to be optimized algorithm
> 
> No need to write complete code.. Just get me in the right direccion..
> Still learning python and I am not sure what would be the fastest way
> to go about it..

I assume you only want the last 2 fields.  In that case, 

1. Python:
    a = 'groups.goodle.com'.split('.')
    a[-2:] 

2. Awk:
    echo 'groups.goodle.com' | gawk -F '.' '{print $(NF-1) "." $NF}'

3. Shell:
    a=groups.goodle.com
    b=${a%.*.*}
    echo ${a#$b.}

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
1986 VW Jetta, 350000km :-))


From amk at amk.ca  Wed Nov 13 16:15:54 2002
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:15:54 -0600
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <_qSdnaGis_mXXE-gXTWcoQ@speakeasy.net>

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:56:28 -0000, 
	DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> My wild guess would be that there are today more people familiar with XML
> than there are with \tex.  How long will the supply of tex afficianado's 
> last?

That's irrelevant, because random people don't wander in off the
street and write Python documentation.  The question is not "what
format do most people know?", in which case the answer is almost
certainly plain ASCII or Microsoft Word, not DocBook or LaTeX.  The
question is "what format do the people who actually write
documentation like?"  And so far that's LaTeX.

--amk


From avajrd at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  4 21:47:51 2002
From: avajrd at yahoo.com (Mike)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 18:47:51 -0800
Subject: python -u under cygwin telnet
References: <954ef463.0211021945.7a1b5c05@posting.google.com> <8d148763.0211031251.1ed74d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <954ef463.0211041847.3ee48b1d@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the tip.  I'll check it out, but from looking at the link,
it appears that win32s is required, so I'll probably be in the same
situation I am now because I'm trying to get this to work in cygwin's
telnetd bash shell.

I'll let you know.

Mike

yaipa at aol.com (yaipa) wrote in message news:<8d148763.0211031251.1ed74d5 at posting.google.com>...
> I'm not doing exactly what you are, but I've had 
> great success controlling serial ports in Solaris
> and Win2K using pySerial,
> 
>  http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/
> 
> Not so long ago I posted some working code titled
> "Working (basic) Eurotherm Temp Controller" on this alias.
> 
> Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.  I need
> to do the same thing you are in the next phase of my project.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -Yaipa.h
> 
> 
> avajrd at yahoo.com (Mike) wrote in message news:<954ef463.0211021945.7a1b5c05 at posting.google.com>...
> > Perhaps somebody here can enlighten me on this.
> > 
> > I have a small program that interfaces with a serial port using the
> > uspp (univerisal serial port) package.  This required the win32all
> > v148 as a pre-req.  This program works as designed from cmd.exe.
> > 
> > Python version is "Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32
> > bit (Intel)] on win32"
> > 
> > I needed to have this program called from a cgi script using expect so
> > I installed the latest cygwin and configured inetd to run a service to
> > support telnetd.  When I try to run the python interpreter
> > interactively from a telnet session, I do not get any prompts.
> > 
> > When I run the program, it works, but no output is displayed until it
> > terminates.  Using the -u switch overcomes this.
> > 
> > The cygwin version of python works correctly interactively, but I
> > can't use this because uspp does not work in cygwin.
> > 
> > I do not get this behaviour from a cygwin bash shell from the machine,
> > not using telnet.
> > 
> > Does any of this make sense?  I'm not really in a "pickle" (sorry for
> > the pun), but just trying to understand why.


From usenet at imperialviolet.org  Thu Nov 28 10:50:56 2002
From: usenet at imperialviolet.org (Adam Langley)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:50:56 +0000
Subject: Not finding user-installed module despite PYTHONPATH!
References: <slrnaucbep.4v9.hat@se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.28.15.50.55.695469@imperialviolet.org>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:51:09 +0000, Albert Hofkamp wrote:

> Obviously, 'import' looks for mymodule in the python module searchpaths.
> Since mymodule is not (yet :-) ) part of the python standard distribution,
> I did a user-install (the home scheme of distutils) of the module at
> $HOME/python.
> I added the searchpath to the module into PYTHONPATH in my shell rc file
> (export PYTHONPATH=$HOME/python/lib/python:.).
> (both .bashrc and .zshrc (as well as the login scripts (.bash_profile,
> .zlogin) to be on the safe side))
> 
> At my Linux (RH7.2) system, this approach works with bash.
> It does _NOT_ work with zsh.

I think you'll find that ssh runs the command via the system default shell
(usually bash on Linux) and not via *your* default shell. Thus zsh startup
files aren't parsed.

However, $HOME/.ssh/environment can be used. From the manpage:

Additionally, ssh reads $HOME/.ssh/environment, and adds lines of the
format ``VARNAME=value'' to the environment if the file exists and 
users are allowed to change their environment.  See 
the PermitUserEnvironment option in sshd_config(5).




From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Thu Nov 14 07:47:09 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:47:09 +0100
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list@python.org> <aqvmb3$v6h$1@news.netpower.no> <EDLA9.27101$eX.71749@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <ar05uv$7ao$1@news.netpower.no>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:EDLA9.27101$eX.71749 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> David Brown:
>
> > As long as C(++) compilers
> > still generate seperate completed object code modules that are only
> > collected by a linker, then you are going to get a performance hit
> whenever
> > a small function from one module is used by a function in another
module.
>
>    Current compilers are able to inline across compilation units. See, for
> example,
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/02/05/Hood/default.aspx
>    although IIRC other compilers beat MSVC to this particular
optimization.
>

That was a very interesting - that is exactly the sort of thing I was
thinking of.  I have never had occasion to use MS compilers, so I hadn't
come across this.  The question then is when will gcc support such link-time
code generation, because until then, inlined functions in headers will
remain an issue.






From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Tue Nov 26 23:27:41 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:27:41 +1300
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it> <3DE2893A.CCB631D6@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <3DE449BD.1040503@something.invalid>

Jan Decaluwe wrote:

> However, if I use inheritance from an immutable 
> type, the subtype is automatically immutable also, right?


Not necessarily -- there's nothing stopping you giving
your subclass some mutable state and providing
methods for mutating it.

However, if you do that, you'd better also override
the __hash__ method and have it raise a suitable
exception, just in case someone tries to use your
type as a dict key.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Wed Nov  6 20:52:17 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:52:17 -0800
Subject: Python-list digest, Vol 1 #12935 - 15 msgs
In-Reply-To: <20021107002601.7992.39994.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021107002601.7992.39994.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E189bsR-00008x-00@scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Wednesday 06 November 2002 04:26 pm, python-list-request at python.org wrote:
> Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote in 
> news:mailman.1036618569.11393.python-list at python.org:
> >? ? ?2) Run as an independent Python application. For convenience,
> >? ? ?this can be configured as a "Helper App" in the browser so it will
> >? ? ?pop up when needed (Renderer already written -- actually a
> >? ? ?choice of them, may require AnyGUI/PyUI contribs).
> 
> thats probably a good solution. even sun decided to go this way with Java 
> Webstart. the "helper app" caches downloaded apps and verifies certificates 
> etc. but it basicaly just registered a new mime-type in the browser that is 
> started when a config file is downloaded. such a config is an XML with a 
> download location for the real app.

Actually, I just meant that the program itself was the "helper app", which
is the term that Netscape 4.x uses to describe applications associated
with mime-types.  (Netscape asks you if you want to run Acrobat Reader,
for example, as a "plugin" or as a "helper app").

However, I think I see what you're getting it -- I think your "helper app" is 
like the "Loader" in my "Zapplet Version 2" diagram -- a Java signed applet 
that installs the program. The only difference is that you're suggesting it 
install the program as a whole application instead of as a plugin for the 
browser (and configures the browser to use it).  I hadn't thought of having 
it do that automatically, that's interesting.

> so in that case you don't need to write any software that interoperates 
> with the browser direcly. it's only started by the browser. it has its own 
> configurator where you can setup the HTTP proxy etc. the only problem is 
> how to register the mime type. but that's probably much easier to handle 
> that writing a plugin.

Mind you I don't mean to say that I'm only going to pick one way
to run the client. I want to have at least two: a "low-buy-in" applet and a
higher performance option (which might be the application model as
you suggest) -- sort of "try before you buy".  The final decision will be 
made by the user. I also like the idea of requiring the applet to run in
two environments as a robustness assurance.

Aesthetically, I prefer the idea of the client running inside the browser
window, but I'm not sure how hard I'm willing to work to achieve that. :-)

I'm definitely going to implement the Jython approach and see how
that works out. If I understand my dependencies right, it should then
be automatically possible to run it as an independent application,
without having to change the code (other than selecting the correct
renderer).

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 21 08:33:58 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:33:58 GMT
Subject: gc (was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?)
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <3DDBE4C7.6060308@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <7h3n0o3t5i7.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:

> My correspondent did not specify, but is this provided by the
> optional GC module, or is it now just part of core Python?

It is in the core.  The gc module is used to tune and query the cycle
collector.

It is possible to turn the collector off at compile time in all
released versions of Python -- it won't be in 2.3 -- but as roughly
noone ever does this, I think this fact is ignorable.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I have a feeling that any simple problem can be made arbitrarily
  difficult by imposing a suitably heavy administrative process
  around the development.       -- Joe Armstrong, comp.lang.functional


From rmunn at pobox.com  Thu Nov 21 15:47:44 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:47:44 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037828015.2000.python-list@python.org> <7h3isyrt4ar.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnatqhrb.hdq.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:
> nandrats at mail.mdanderson.org writes:
> 
>> I thought that this is a python list where every kind of language
>> related question can be posed. But this thread in my opinion is
>> getting out of range.
> 
> It's hard to stop people posting to a thread they're interested in.
> 
> This thread is pretty on topic compared to some -- we haven't had any
> discussions about esperanto or trans-finite cardinals or what sort of
> water pasta is best cooked in.  python-list tends to go in for wildly
> off-topic threads.  I don't mind, because they're usually pretty
> interesting.

Well, obviously pasta is best cooked in trans-finite water. For extra
credit, get an Esperanto-speaking Cardinal to do your cooking for you.

wondering-about-the-linguistic-skills-of-the-St.-Louis-baseball-team-ly y'rs,

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Wed Nov 27 21:01:58 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 02:01:58 GMT
Subject: With what module can Python handel *.tar.gz file?
References: <mailman.1037962779.25641.python-list@python.org> <slrnauaibb.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <slrnauau8l.jv.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Robin Munn wrote:
> Wang Hanbo <bswhb at 263.net> wrote:
> [snip 205 lines]
> 
> Wow, Outlook Express (or was it Outlook?) really produces some *ugly*
> HTML. 205 lines for a seven-line message? What a waste of bandwidth.
> 
> Anyway, please turn off HTML emails in your mail client before asking
> questions on this newsgroup. Send in Plain Text only -- any other method
> wastes a lot of bandwidth, plus it looks just plain ugly.
> 
> Or better yet: ditch Outlook / Outlook Express and get a better
> mail/news client. (Is mutt available on Windows? What about slrn?)

There are native win32 mutt and slrns available, but I just use the
mutt pkg from the Cygwin package. slrn 0.9.4 (and the latest slang,
which is its only prerequisite) compile OOTB on Cygwin, too.

I use both extensively, with a few Python scripts called from mutt
(sendmail.py for sending mail with SMTP AUTH to the M$ Exchange
server, and query.py to query the M$ Active Directory for email
adresses via ADSI).

> I would have been happy to answer your question, but I didn't want
> to wade through 200+ lines of HTML to do so.

I have customized my slrn via hooks to convert multipart/mixed junk
like this to plain text ;-) And I can tell you that I don't
particularly like the 'slang' language. So I just call a Python script
using the 'email' module from my slang hooks :-) [1]

This way, I can continue refusing to learn eLISP and Emacs and
switching to GNUS;-)

-- Gerhard

[1] Maybe I should finally clean that up and publish it somewhere.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 22 10:06:15 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:06:15 -0500
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <ALScnT7Y_Pep2EOgXTWcpg@comcast.com>

"Eric Brunel" <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> wrote in message
news:arle6m$aa9$1 at news-reader11.wanadoo.fr...
> Hi all,
>
> I quite often find myself doing things like:
>
> xMax = None
> for -whatever-:
>   -big calculation leading to a value of x-
>   if xMax is None:
>     xMax = x
>   else:
>     xMax = max(x, xMax)
>
> or the same kind of stuff with min, of course.
>
> So I told myself: wouldn't it be great if max(None, x) or min(None,
x)
> always simply returned x? So I could just write:
>
> xMax = None
> for -whatever-:
>   -big calculation leading to a value of x-
>   xMax = max(x, xMax)
>
> Okay, it only saves 3 lines, but I personally find it quite
natural... In
> addition, today, min(None, x) and max(None, x) work, but have
strange
> results: as far as I can see, min(None, x) is always None and
max(None, x)
> is always x, but this behaviour isn't documented.
>
> Opinions anyone?

What you want are identity elements for the min and max operators
(like 0,1 are for +,*), which are -+ infinity.  In a particular
context, you may be able to use finite values for the same purpose.
On some builds (depending on underlying C library), you can actually
get and use values representing and acting like +-infinity.  On AS 2.2
Windows build:

>>> Infplus=1e300/1e-300
>>> Infplus
1.#INF
>>> max(1e300,Infplus)
1.#INF
>>> max(-1e300,Infneg)
-1.0000000000000001e+300

>>> Infneg=-1e300/1e-300
>>> Infneg
-1.#INF
>>> min(-1e300,Infneg)
-1.#INF
>>> max(-1e300,Infneg)
-1.0000000000000001e+300

So proposal unnecessary on this build.  What you say in last para is
that None is treated as -INFINITY, which is both arbitrary and a bit
weird.

Terry J. Reedy




From matt at mondoinfo.com  Sat Nov 23 22:03:21 2002
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 03:03:21 GMT
Subject: Repost: Tkinter Checkbox Question
References: <b4d1dd0c.0211231818.577e0929@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnau0gbp.vr.matt@sake.mondoinfo.com>

Dear Josiah,

> What am I doing wrong in this sample? When I press the "status"
> button, the printout shows that "self.var.get()" returns a "0" weather
> the box is checked or not!

I'm sorry but I can't replicate that here. It doesn't look like
there's anything wrong with your code and if I paste it into an editor
window and run it, it behaves as I'd expect: the status button prints
0 if the checkbox isn't checked and 1 if it is. I doubt that it's a
problem that's related to the version of Python you're using
checkboxes are used all the time and many people would have run into
it.

Regards,
Matt



> #######################################################################
> from Tkinter import *
> root = Tk()
> 
> class App:
> 
>     def __init__(self, master):  
> 
>         frame = Frame(master) 
>         frame.grid()
>               
>         self.var = IntVar() 
>         self.CButton = Checkbutton(frame,text="check",variable=self.var)
>         self.CButton.grid()
> 
>         self.buttonGo = Button(frame, text= "status", command=self.go)
>         self.buttonGo.grid()
> 
>     def go(self):
>         print self.var.get() 
> 
> app = App(root)
> root.mainloop()
> #######################################################################


From jredgrave at capisco.com  Wed Nov 27 14:55:19 2002
From: jredgrave at capisco.com (Jon Redgrave)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:55:19 -0000
Subject: Passing COM IDispatch from C to PythonCOM
Message-ID: <mu9F9.205$bV3.31@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

I have a C program that has an IDispatch pointer to a COM object.
I want to run an embedded python script that uses this IDispatch pointer
(using Mark Hammond's excellent win32all), but do not know how to pass it to
the script.

PythonCOM appears to wrap IDispatch's in PyIDispatch object, How do I wrap
it, or can I somehow pass it another way (as an int??) and wrap it in
Python?

Many thanks for your help

[email address contains bogus underscore]




From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Nov 11 00:03:58 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:03:58 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqlntp$66p$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <gknmqa.hc4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqn83f$gou$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <undnqa.rp4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Carl Banks fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 10 November 2002 
07:01 pm:

> 
> 
> Which is kind of funny.  You'd expect the Data Register to point to
> the nth item in the list, and Address Register to point to the next
> cons cell.  But the reverse is true.
>
        May just be that the physical storage unit looked like:

        [car|cdr]

so drawing a diagram of a Lisp structure tended to generate:

        [car|cdr]->[car|cdr]->...[car|null]
         |          |             |
         V          V             V
        [...|null] [...|null]    [...|null]

-- 
--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Nov 24 11:48:09 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 10:48:09 -0600
Subject: Regular expression question
In-Reply-To: <20021123213820.A13007@unpythonic.net> (jepler@unpythonic.net's
 message of "Sat, 23 Nov 2002 21:38:31 -0600")
References: <9a5f3d1c.0211231857.78125e43@posting.google.com>
	<20021123213820.A13007@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <m2u1i6lxrq.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "jepler" == jepler  <jepler at unpythonic.net> writes:

    jepler> Anyway, here's an attempt at a Pythonic version of the
    jepler> perl code you posted.  Yes, it's longer than the Perl
    jepler> version.  

But it's also reusable.  I would make a minor modification.  Since you
are going to the trouble of writing a class, you may as well build the
dictionary for the user, since the dictionary can be built from a
sequence

import re

def whatever(v):
    return 'WhAtEvEr' + v

def want(v):
    return 'WaNt' + v


class translator:
    def __init__(self, allowed, variable):
        self._variable = variable
        #build a map of allowed names -> funcs from a list of funcs in allowed
        funcnames = map(lambda x: x.__name__, allowed)
        self.allowed = dict(zip(funcnames, allowed))

    def process(self, m):
        func = m.group(1).lower()
        return self.allowed[func](self._variable)

    def __call__(self, s):
        return re.sub('%%(.*?)%%', self.process, s)

x = translator( [whatever, want], variable='!' )

print x('I will do %%WHATEVER%%, you %%WANT%%')


Jonah, of course you would only need to bother with this class once.
Since you say you use this approach a lot, you can drop it into a
utils.py file and then just import it with

from utils import translator
# define your custom funcs
x = translator( [whatever, want], variable='!' )
print x('I will do %%WHATEVER%%, you %%WANT%%')

Which is short, clean, and fairly readable.  I came from perl to
python, and the main thing I didn't like about perl is you really had
to jump through some hoops do object oriented programming.  It's much
more natural in python, to me.

John Hunter




From k.weinert at gmx.net  Thu Nov 21 11:14:46 2002
From: k.weinert at gmx.net (Karsten Weinert)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 08:14:46 -0800
Subject: Redirect question
References: <fa576652.0211170745.2328fe56@posting.google.com> <3DD7F71E.9050807@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <fa576652.0211210814.1083642f@posting.google.com>

Pierre Rouleau <pieroul at attglobal.net> wrote in message news:<3DD7F71E.9050807 at attglobal.net>...
 
> First, you must use the right variable.  s is nothing.  self.s is the 
> right variable.

Thanks to all. Now I have got it up and running :-)

Kind regards,
Karsten


From engsol at teleport.com  Sat Nov  9 15:15:31 2002
From: engsol at teleport.com (engsol at teleport.com)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:15:31 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net> <aqilvp$3l1$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3dcd6aee.7793165@news.earthlink.net>

On 9 Nov 2002 09:54:01 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:48:35 GMT, engsol at teleport.com wrote:
>
>>I've read the books, tried some code, and I still just don't get it.
>>
<snip>

>Well, it depends on what kind of coupling you need between your python stuff and the c stuff.
>Some variant of the above may do it, or not ;-) Need more definite requirement statement.

Thanks for the reply.

One example of the legacy requirement is: we have a custom plug-in card which needs to be
loaded with data, then triggered to output the data stream to the system under test. The
driver for the card works well, and it'd be nice to not have to rewrite it. The source can
be recompiled as a DLL(?)  module...I think.  Or at the least as a library header
file..again..I think.

Norm



From polux2001 at wanadoo.fr  Sun Nov 10 08:39:01 2002
From: polux2001 at wanadoo.fr (polux)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:39:01 +0100
Subject: tetris, tron and nibbles
Message-ID: <3DCE6175.2010302@wanadoo.fr>

are there games like taht written in Tkinter for example ?



From ht at cogsci.ed.ac.uk  Tue Nov 12 04:29:14 2002
From: ht at cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Henry S. Thompson)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 09:29:14 +0000
Subject: __unicode__ vs. __str__: not quite parallel?
References: <f5by980163z.fsf@erasmus.inf.ed.ac.uk> <j4wunk9fcu.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <f5bbs4v16hh.fsf@erasmus.inf.ed.ac.uk>

loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. L?wis) writes:

> ht at cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Henry S. Thompson) writes:
> 
> > If you print an object to a normal stream, and object's class has a
> >  __str__ method, what appears is the result of the __str__ method.
> 
> What is "a normal stream"?

One without a codec.getwriter wrapped around it.

> >>> f=open("/tmp/bla","w")
> >>> class X:
> ...   def __str__(self):
> ...     print "STR"
> ...     return "str"
> ... 
> >>> x=X()
> >>> str(x)
> STR
> 'str'
> >>> f.write(x)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: argument 1 must be string or read-only character buffer, not instance
> 
> So it is not at all common that you can write arbitrary things into a
> byte stream.

Sorry I wasn't clearer, but I did say 'print', not 'write', and if
you use print your example works fine:

>>> f=open("/tmp/bla","w")  
>>> class X:                
...   def __str__(self):    
...     print "STR"         
...     return "str"        
... 
>>> x=X()
>>> print x
 STR
str
>>> print >>f,x
STR
>>> f.close()

> > I've searched the archives but found no joy for this one -- any help
> > out there?
> 

> I can't offer help, but I will instead ask for help.
> 
> This looks like a bug. PyUnicode_FromObject does not consider invoking
> __unicode__, but I think it should. In fact, I cannot understand why
> PyObject_Unicode and PyUnicode_FromObject are different functions.
> There is already a comment in this function suggesting that.
> 
> So please either submit a bug report, or, better yet, a patch (I
> *will* forget about this if there is no reminder on SF).

Will do.

> In return, I can offer a work-around: When you lookup a stream writer,
> don't use that directly. Instead, do
> 
>  basewriter = codecs.get_writer(encodingname)
>  class writer(basewriter):
>    def write(self, data):
>      data = unicode(data)
>      return self.__bases__[0].write(data)

This certainly points in a useful direction, but I don't think it's
quite right -- it's not the .write method that is the problem here,
it's whatever print does. . .  I think it's correct for .Write to
complain if it doesn't get PyString or PyUnicode.

ht
-- 
  Henry S. Thompson, HCRC Language Technology Group, University of Edinburgh
          W3C Fellow 1999--2002, part-time member of W3C Team
     2 Buccleuch Place, Edinburgh EH8 9LW, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440
	    Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht at cogsci.ed.ac.uk
		     URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/
 [mail really from me _always_ has this .sig -- mail without it is forged spam]


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sat Nov 23 22:22:10 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:22:10 -0800
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <m8nmra.tk4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arog76$ed5$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3lgpra.de5.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Bengt Richter fed this fish to the penguins on Saturday 23 November 
2002 10:08 am:

> 
> Fortran has abstractions too, but, e.g., no idea of dictionary per se
> binding a particular set of names to a particular set of objects.

        No, but then again, "dictionary" is just a name for an implementation. 
For example, a Python dictionary and a REXX "stem variable" are both 
forms of an abstract construct I know under the term "associative 
array" (and REXX has a minor advantage too, as you can initialize stems 
in a way in which a default value applies to all "undefined" keys). 
REXX stem variables are variables in which the name contains a "."
Python d["key"] is equal to REXX d."key" (yes, you can quote the part 
of the variable that follows the "."). FORTRAN does not have 
associative arrays, but that doesn't stop me from thinking in that 
concept, leaving the implementation to later... True, for FORTRAN that 
implementation will require coding a bit of a library of routines, 
but...

        As for where the concept of associative arrays came from... I learned 
of them NOT from Python or REXX, or from any other language. I learned 
of them from courses on database internals, language design, etc.

> Learning python gives you the abstract notion of name->thing
> relationships to think with. You can get this notion from in Lisp as
> well, but in Fortran name->thing relationships are narrowly contrained
> (for useful purposes) and don't give you the general abstract notion.
> OTOH, arrays also have abstract counterparts, and Fortran and
> associated libraries gives you some useful things there.
>
        PostScript (yes, that /is/ a programming language) introduces one to 
similar concerns. "Making" a substring doesn't copy part of the 
original string, it just associates the name with part of the original. 
Changing the contents of the substring changes it AND the original 
string. I learned that one years ago, on my Amiga. I've never had a 
PostScript printer -- but my favorite Amiga wordprocessors only 
produced NLQ output by using PostScript (the alternative was "screen 
dump -- magnifying a 12 pixel character to fill a 24dot printer cell... 
very ugly rectangular blocks). So I used so-called PostScript 
compatible interpreter programs to render the pages. Turns out both 
programs I used (one was discontinued and I had to buy a replacement) 
did NOT implement the proper substringing behavior. I had to modify the 
wordprocessor PostScript preamble files to work around that improper 
behavior by doing string copies rather than subscript assignments.
 
> So I would say "thinking in" a language is thinking in the abstract,
> but restricting oneself to the abstractions that map easily to
> representatons in the syntax of the language. The more powerful the
> language, the less the restriction.
>
        Whereas I tend to do the thinking without taking any language into 
account, using concepts picked up from anywhere if they assist in the 
analysis of the problem space.
 


-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Fri Nov 22 13:51:14 2002
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:51:14 -0500
Subject: Subclassing Numpy Arrays?
References: <9b8c378b.0211220711.2ab041a6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qnkfzttcual.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, mclin at ctgi.com (Jon McLin) wrote:

> I have an application wherein I need to subclass Numpy arrays.  This
> does not appear doable, at least directly.  I can obviously create my
> own python wrapper class around arrays to enable subclassing, but this
> seems like a lot of work. especially given the on-going type/class
> unification.  Can anyone provide insight into the likelihood and
> timeframe for subclassable array types in Numpy, or point me in a
> productive direction?

You should take a look at numarray, which is slated to be the
successor to Numpy.
http://stsdas.stsci.edu/numarray/index.html

What are you doing that requires subclassing?

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From rjones at ekit-inc.com  Fri Nov 15 04:12:17 2002
From: rjones at ekit-inc.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:12:17 +1100
Subject: rm -rf in python?
In-Reply-To: <200211150508.VAA12921@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
References: <3DD478CD.2080608@verio.net> <200211150508.VAA12921@mail.arc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <200211152012.17347.rjones@ekit-inc.com>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 4:08 pm, Chad Netzer wrote:
> On Thursday 14 November 2002 20:32, VanL wrote:
> > I suppose that I could recurse
> > down through, deleteing as I went, but it seems that there must be an
> > easier way.
>
> Nope, there isn't.  (At least, not a portable way)

shutil.rmtree


    Richard




From costanza at web.de  Mon Nov 11 11:44:42 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:44:42 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnasvo0e.32k.Andreas.Leitgeb@pc7499.gud.siemens.at>
Message-ID: <3DCFDE7A.8010404@web.de>

Andreas Leitgeb wrote:

> Maybe it's not the lisp-syntax itself, that is so ugly, but
> rather the (seemingly typical) coding-style.
> 
> I quote one function from AisleRiot  (game Kansas):
> " (define (button-pressed slot-id card-list)
> "  (and (not (= (length card-list) 0))
> "       (is-visible? (car card-list))
> "       (or (= slot-id 1)
> "           (> slot-id 5))))

If you are used to this kind of syntax, it's very simple. I don't know 
enough Python (yet) in order to translate this, but in Java it would 
look as follows.

1 boolean buttonPressed (int slotId, Vector cardList) {
2    return !(cardList.size() == 0) &&
3           cardList.get(0).isVisible() &&
4           ((slotId == 1) || (slotId > 5));
5 }

(In Java, you would need a cast in line 3 but that's not important here.)

* Here, you don't need an if-statement either.

* The complexity of understanding the two boolean expressions is the 
same when you're familiar with the respective language. A Lisper would 
have similar difficulties understanding the Java version.

* The expression in line 2 is odd but so it is in the Scheme version. 
Line 2 should read "(cardList.size() != 0)" or better "(cardList.size() 
 > 0)".

Here is a slightly better version in Common Lisp. (I am more familiar 
with Common Lisp than with Scheme.)

(defun button-pressed-p (slot-id card-list)
    (and (not (null card-list))
         (is-visible-p (first card-list))
         (or (= slot-id 1)
             (> slot-id 5))))

However, in Common Lisp it is very likely that is-visible-p returns nil 
when passed nil as argument. Furthermore, in Common Lisp (first nil) 
returns nil as well. So you could actually write the following (after 
having checked that is-visible-p behaves like we expect ;).

(defun button-pressed-p (slot-id card-list)
    (and (is-visible-p (first card-list))
         (or (= slot-id 1)
             (> slot-id 5))))

In Common Lisp, nil is used to represent both the empty list and the 
boolean value false. The boolean value true is typically represented as 
t, but everything else is also considered true. Scheme strictly 
distinguishes between boolean values and list literals, and this makes a 
lot of code more complicated than necessary.

My basic message here is that you might like Common Lisp more than 
Scheme. *nudge, nudge*


Pascal

-- 
Pascal Costanza               University of Bonn
mailto:costanza at web.de        Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de  R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Tue Nov 26 16:05:27 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:05:27 -0500
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <698f09f8.0211261046.582254a5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uu7ogatjhprm9b@news.supernews.com>

"Jeremy Fincher" <tweedgeezer at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:698f09f8.0211261046.582254a5 at posting.google.com...
> Thomas Guettler <pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in message
news:<pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727 at thomas-guettler.de>...
> > I never liked filter, map and reduce.
> >
> > I think it would be good to remove them from the python tutorial.
> > I think the tutorial would be easier for newbies it
> > it would be smaller.
>
> The biggest problem with filter, map, and reduce is that they're
> functions, not methods.  All this discussion about list comprehensions
> versus filter/map ignores one major disadvantage of list
> comprehensions: that they only work with lists.  If filter/map/reduce
> had been *methods* on list objects, then a programmer could implement
> his own container objects (binary trees, subclasses of list, etc.)
> with their own filter/map/reduce methods to construct like containers,
> and people would be happier.

Well, both filter and map are defined only for lists, so list
comprehensions
don't provide a reduction of function there. Reduce is defined for
sequences.

I could see filter and reduce as methods. Since map is a function across
a number of input lists, I have a somewhat harder time seeing it that
way - it looks a bit assymetric to me.

John Roth

> Jeremy




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Nov 28 16:12:37 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 22:12:37 +0100
Subject: PyXML unable to make_parser twice
References: <999e7ee9.0211281048.786d3867@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3vg2hmm9m.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

the_mr_man26 at hotmail.com (Mr Man) writes:

> Now obviously - I need to free something or other in between creating
> the first one - and creating the second one - but I am not sure what.

No, this is a bug in PyXML.

The most likely reason why you triggered this bug is that you don't
have a working PyExpat installed. Please try to import
xml.parsers.expat. If that fails, correct the error.

Regards,
Martin


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Nov  4 11:11:50 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:11:50 -0000
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on OS/390 V2R10
References: <3dc40ef1_1@news.vo.lu> <usa9i1cbjampc6@news.supernews.com> <ducx9.80943$TD1.3668663@news2.tin.it> <pn14qa.9l3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <usd726c9ff0ca9@corp.supernews.com>

In article <pn14qa.9l3.ln at beastie.ix.netcom.com>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>        There was a Unix implementation of REXX: uni-REXX from "The 
>Workstation Group".
>
>        Also, a version of REXX had been ported to run under VMS. 
			.
			.
			.
Also under PalmOS.

And under BeOS.  And QNX.  And ...  And there are
at least three Unix Rexx's available at no charge
<URL: http://rexx.hursley.ibm.com/rexx/rexxplat.htm >.

Rexx is livelier than the impression this thread gives
<URL: http://www.rexxla.org >.

It's not so lively as Python, though.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 25 10:51:08 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:51:08 -0500
Subject: reliable tcp server holding multiple connections
References: <slrnatvnof.1qc.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <3DDFAEB4.1040506@nospam.attbi.com> <slrnatvpie.20s.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> <3DDFC36D.4090906@nospam.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <JDrE9.85472$iw.50488@FE06>

"djw" <dwelch91 at nospam.attbi.com> wrote ...
> Wojtek Walczak wrote:
> > Dnia Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:37:07 GMT, djw napisa?(a):
> >
> >>Do you know about Medusa?
> >
> > Yes, but Medusa it a little bit large. I want to create small code,
> > proof of concept. An educational example, nothing more.
> >
>
> I would take a look at Steve Holden's "Python Web Programming". I think
> it has examples of what you are after.
>

Well, modesty forbade, but now you've been kind enough to mention it, I can
also point out that the code is available from http://pydish.holdenweb.com/
for those who want to build on it. Mostly it could do with the intelligent
addition of some threading to handle cases where connection processing might
usefully overlap.

regards
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/
Previous .sig file retired to                    www.homeforoldsigs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------





From ht at cogsci.ed.ac.uk  Mon Nov 11 10:25:04 2002
From: ht at cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Henry S. Thompson)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 15:25:04 +0000
Subject: __unicode__ vs. __str__: not quite parallel?
Message-ID: <f5by980163z.fsf@erasmus.inf.ed.ac.uk>

If you call str(object), and object's class has a __str__ method, the
  value is the value of the __str__ method;

If you print an object to a normal stream, and object's class has a
  __str__ method, what appears is the result of the __str__ method.

If you call unicode(object), and object's class has a __unicode__ method, the
  value is the value of the __unicode__ method;

So far so good, but read on . . .

If you print an object to a unicode stream, and object's class has a
  __unicode__ method, what appears is the result of . . .

_not_ the __unicode__ method, but the __str__ method, if there is one,
otherwise the usual default.

Is this a bug or a feature?  I had hoped that by defining __unicode__
methods for my objects, and resolutely using unicode streams, I would
have a self-consistent situation, but I appear to have to do the work
twice, by defining __str__ methods that call the __unicode__ method and
encode the result.  I've searched the archives but found no joy for
this one -- any help out there?

ht
-- 
  Henry S. Thompson, HCRC Language Technology Group, University of Edinburgh
          W3C Fellow 1999--2002, part-time member of W3C Team
     2 Buccleuch Place, Edinburgh EH8 9LW, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440
	    Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht at cogsci.ed.ac.uk
		     URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/
 [mail really from me _always_ has this .sig -- mail without it is forged spam]


From fgeiger at datec.at  Thu Nov 14 02:35:00 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:35:00 +0100
Subject: [regexp] Where's the error in this ini-file reading regexp?
References: <3dd2a254@news.swissonline.ch> <aqunmr$iap$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3dd361bf@news.swissonline.ch>

>  >>> rx = re.compile(r"^\s*(\[.+\]\s*$)|^\s*(.+?)=(.+)$",
re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE)

Perfect, that's what I'm after. So the secret lies in that '|', right? Why
is this? No, that's the wrong question. I have to ask: How can I gain
knowledge more easily on this topic? How did you do? Are you on Linux, where
you more likely use re on a daily basis?

Anyway. thanks a lot for your post!

Kind regards
Franz



"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:aqunmr$iap$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:05:15 +0100, "F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote:
>
> >Dear all,
> >
> >I have to parse a string which contains data in ini-file-format, i.e.:
> >
> >   s = \
> >'''
> >[Section 1]
> >Key11=Value11
> >Key12=Value12
> >Key13=Value13
> >[Section 2]
> >Key21=Value21
> >Key22=Value22
> >Key23=Value23
> >'''
> >
> >I decided to try a solution using re (yes, ConfigParser or simple string
> >splitting would be an other way to do it), because the structure really
is
> >regular: Sections, which contain key/value pairs.
> >
> >I'm sure there's only a tiny step left to succeed.
> >
> >I tried:
> >
> >rex = re.compile(r"(\s*(\[.+\])(\s*((.+)=(.+)))+?)",
> >re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE)
> >L = rex.findall(s)
> >
> >where s is the string already shown above.
> >
> >What I get is:
> >
> >[('\n[Section 1]\nKey11=Value11', '[Section 1]', '\nKey11=Value11', \
> >'Key11=Value11', 'Key11', 'Value11'), ('\n[Section 2]\nKey21=Value21', \
> >'[Section 2]', '\nKey21=Value21', 'Key21=Value21', 'Key21', 'Value21')]
> >
> >So L[0][1] contains the string 'Section1', L[0][4] the string 'Key11',
> >L[0][5] the string 'Value11'.
> >Section2 is also there and is contained by L[1].
> >
> >So what I have is both sections, but only one (i.e. the first one)
key/value
> >pair for each of those two sections.
> >
> >When I remove the last '?' in ...(.+=.+))+?)" then the last key/value
pair
> >instead of the first one is the result. So this must have to do with
> >greediness/non-greediness. What I wonder is, why do I not get all three
> >key/value pairs? How can I tell the re engine "gimme *all* groups having
> >key=value form", when a '+' delivers only the last, and '+?' only the
first
> >of those pairs?
>
> Assuming you want to do the whole thing with an re, maybe this would be
more useful?
> (the "if 1:" was so I could copy/paste without reindenting)
>
>  >>> if 1:
>  ...    s = \
>  ... '''
>  ... [Section 1]
>  ... Key11=Value11
>  ... Key12=Value12
>  ... Key13=Value13
>  ... [Section 2]
>  ... Key21=Value21
>  ... Key22=Value22
>  ... Key23=Value23
>  ... '''
>  ...
>  >>> import re
>  >>> rx = re.compile(r"^\s*(\[.+\]\s*$)|^\s*(.+?)=(.+)$",
re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE)
>  >>> rx.findall(s)
>  [('[Section 1]', '', ''), ('', 'Key11', 'Value11'), ('', 'Key12',
'Value12'), ('', 'Key13', 'Val
>  ue13'), ('[Section 2]', '', ''), ('', 'Key21', 'Value21'), ('', 'Key22',
'Value22'), ('', 'Key23
>  ', 'Value23')]
>
> or, easier to see:
>
>  >>> for t in rx.findall(s): print t
>  ...
>  ('[Section 1]', '', '')
>  ('', 'Key11', 'Value11')
>  ('', 'Key12', 'Value12')
>  ('', 'Key13', 'Value13')
>  ('[Section 2]', '', '')
>  ('', 'Key21', 'Value21')
>  ('', 'Key22', 'Value22')
>  ('', 'Key23', 'Value23')
>
> which should be easy to process sequentially, checking for new section
names in t[0],
> and otherwise having t[1] and t[2]. BTW t[1] made non-greedy should check
for the
> first '='. You might want to check if spaces should be included in the end
of a key and
> beginning of a value, otherwise you might want \s*=\s* where = is now.
Similarly with $
> if you want to trim possible trailing blanks and use \s*$ (I kept your
leading blank trim).
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter




From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 12 02:16:19 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:16:19 -0800
Subject: Running python on windows.
References: <8b58f27c.0211112121.36e0de25@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3s9qqa.n25.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

kk fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 11 November 2002 09:21 pm:

> Hi
>  I am new to python, tried to run python at >>> prompt its giving
> syntax error.Any one help me to run python scripts on windows.
>
        That's an interactive prompt, meant for typing in short tests... If 
you have a script FILE (something.py) you don't go /into/ Python to run 
it -- just type "python something.py" (no quotes) at the command line.

{bloody web gateways to usenet -- no way I can identify from your 
headers what type of system you are running to give better instructions}
-- 
--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Nov 14 21:22:57 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:22:57 -0600
Subject: BUG URLLIB2
In-Reply-To: <YFYA9.297$B85.33011@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> ("JohnJacob"'s
 message of "Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:07:52 GMT")
References: <3DD43DA7.5070004@libero.it> <m2lm3vhcg0.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<YFYA9.297$B85.33011@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <m2vg2zd11a.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "JohnJacob" == JohnJacob  <JJ at JJ.com> writes:

    JohnJacob> Except that this web site doesn't appear to be
    JohnJacob> forbidden. I can view it just fine with IE6, but when I
    JohnJacob> try it with urllib2, I get the same error.
    JohnJacob> Nonetheless, I have no idea why this is happening.

Good point!  Perhaps the following is informative:

http://www.google.it/robots.txt

User-agent: *
Disallow: /search
Disallow: /groups
Disallow: /images

 ... snip ...

So google.it is disallowing robots in the search subdir.  I suspect
urllib will allow you to override the default robots behavior.  Viewer
discretion is advised.

John Hunter




From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 13 13:18:26 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:18:26 GMT
Subject: calendar modules
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk> <slrnat5dla.sc.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <slrnat563t.puo.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Wojtek Walczak <gminick at hacker.pl> wrote:
> Dnia Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:38:03 +0800, Geiger Ho napisa?(a):
>> well in MS Windows. When I type "calendar.month(2002,11)", it outputs a
>> string
> Yes, it outputs a string... for printing :)
> print calendar.month(2002, 11)
>     November 2002
> Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa Su
>              1  2  3
>  4  5  6  7  8  9 10
> 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
> 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
> 25 26 27 28 29 30
> 

And don't forget the monthcalender() function if you wanted data instead
of output:

>>> import calendar
>>> calendar.monthcalendar(2002, 11)
[[0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2, 3], 
 [4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10],
 [11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17],
 [18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24],
 [25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 0]]

I'm sure you can think of many ways to use this...

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Nov 14 12:45:31 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 18:45:31 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <mailman.1037224700.11546.python-list@python.org> <m3ptt9p0rw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <ar0cso$iua$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <m38yzw6o5g.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:

> But still a *donation* should not require the sender to identify with
> such extreme security precautions.

In addition to Michael's comments (you need to be able to talk to the
submitter), there is also the issue of copyright. The PSF currently
discusses requiring formal papers for contributors, which would raise
the barrier even more. These procedures are needed to legally maintain
ownership of Python. Otherwise, some contributor (anonymous or not in
his contribution) could claim that we have stolen his software, and
that make an end to Python as free software. Or some organization
could claim that the contributor has stolen their software and
contributed it to Python.

This is, unfortunately, a requirement that springs up when you develop
valuable free software: there are always people who will take
advantage of you, unless you are careful.

So anonymous contributions are clearly out of question.

> Maybe I am completely on the wrong track here and in that case:
> If someone could remove this little mental barrier for me, preferable
> without using brain surgery, my changes of being able to contribute
> documentation and source code fixes would increase dramatically.

I don't quite understand your concern: Is it that you need to identify
yourself to SourceForge? In that case, there is not much we can do,
except for sharing our believe that SourceForge will operate sensitive
with your private data, and not reveal it to anybody.

Regards,
Martin


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 13 14:33:36 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 20:33:36 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ken Starks <straton at lampsacos.demon.co.uk> writes:

>   1. LaTeX for authors
>   2. XML for the machine

Why do we need XML for the machine?

> To me this boils down to a two-way conversion system, with
> a 'there-and-back' circular function that preserves all
> content, and turns rapidly into a constant loop.

In the current setup, such a system is not required. I believe it
would be possible to implement, though, given the existing TeX->XML
tool.

However, it is not clear to what the value would be of completing the
circle, given that the XML is of no use.

Regards,
Martin


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Thu Nov 21 15:49:55 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:49:55 GMT
Subject: To GC or not to GC?
Message-ID: <3DDD4751.9050807@nyc.rr.com>

OK, newbie here, recently reassured that Python now comes with 
generational GC that can handle cyclic refs of otherwise unreachable stuff.

But the doc: http://www.python.org/doc/2.2p1/ref/objects.html

...says "(Implementation note: the current implementation uses a 
reference-counting scheme with (optional) delayed detection of cyclicly 
linked garbage, which collects most objects as soon as they become 
unreachable, but is not guaranteed to collect garbage containing 
circular references. See the Python Library Reference for information on 
controlling the collection of cyclic garbage.)"

following that link I see: "This [GC] module provides an interface to 
the optional garbage collector. ... It also provides access to 
unreachable objects that the collector found but cannot free. Since the 
collector supplements the reference counting already used in Python, you 
can disable the collector if you are sure your program does not create 
reference cycles."

My questions are:

1. Is that doc up to date? I see Mar 2002, not too shabby.

2. Well, I should almost wait before asking further, but if you'll 
forgive a little lookahead, that "supplements reference counting" scares 
me. Is ref counting history or not? mind you, i understand there is a 
lot of code out there taht must be supported, but for new code...?

TIA...

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 12 22:11:58 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:11:58 -0800
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <20021112204601.21703.65547.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1037156117.19552.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD1C2FE.CB6FA0CA@alcyone.com>

Terry Hancock wrote:

> Hmm. I don't see this:
> 
> >>> def spam(eggs, ham=[]):
> ...     print "%s and %s" % (eggs, ham)
> ...
	...
> What would I have to do for this to be a problem? (as it happens, I
> have used
> this kind of default before, so I would like to understand the
> pitfall!)

If that list is manipulated in some way, or is returned to the caller
(where it can be manipulated), then that makes the difference:

>>> def f(x, l=[]):   
...  l.append(x)
...  print l      
... 
>>> f(1)
[1]
>>> f(2)
[1, 2]
>>> f(3)
[1, 2, 3]
>>> f(4)
[1, 2, 3, 4]

It's the same list object even that's probably not what you meant.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I will always remember / This moment
\__/ Sade
    Kepler's laws / http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/kepler/
 A proof of Kepler's laws.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Sun Nov 10 07:33:59 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 13:33:59 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7b8f89d6.0211081548.f91b468@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036801092.6411.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfsmy91u4o.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

larrye2000 at hotmail.com (larry) writes:

> Another question that could be asked about Lisp is:
> Most people it seems have nothing good to say about lisp:"it's hard to
> read,it's slow, nobody uses it, it's hard to learn etc, etc".

These people, invariably, haven't got a clue about Lisp.


Chad Netzer <cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:

> On Friday 08 November 2002 15:48, larry wrote:
> >
> > Why do SOME people think Lisp is a fantastic programming langugae?
> > Are we missing something?

> Because for all it's silly, irritating parenthesis, it got some
> things very right.

Yes ... including the parentheses. [*]

> Whenever I see a new language, I tend to ask myself: "What subset of 
> LISP is it trying to do, and what does it give up to do so."

This is the perfect cue for mentioning ...

Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming: "Any sufficiently complicated C
or Fortran program contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified bug-ridden
slow implementation of half of Common Lisp."

(Some people like to add the caveat: This includes implementations of
Common Lisp.)



[*] Acutally, there are no parentheses in Lisp, but let's leave that
discussion for another day.


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Nov  8 05:36:38 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:36:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: string.strip
References: <mailman.1036744990.32317.python-list@python.org> <slrnasn36r.tk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <Xns92C06BD1DA30Bduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote in
news:slrnasn36r.tk.gerhard.haering at haering.opus-gmbh.net: 

> In article <mailman.1036744990.32317.python-list at python.org>, Stano
> Paska wrote: 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> in documentation: string.strip(s[, chars])
>> but in real life strip takes only 1 parameter
>> 
>> I have python 2.2.2
> 
> But you've read the documentation for 2.3. (.../doc/current on
> python.org). 

Did you check your answer before posting?

See
http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.2/lib/module-string.html#l2h-698

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From goldbb2 at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 11 15:59:13 2002
From: goldbb2 at earthlink.net (Benjamin Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:59:13 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DCFF6FB.40426F8E@san.rr.com> <3DD00595.B2905D8E@earthlink.net> <3DD00B63.EC604897@san.rr.com> <3DD0113D.79EC23F6@earthlink.net> <3DD01596.A3420862@san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3DD01A21.2E4968D7@earthlink.net>

Darren New wrote:
> 
> > So?  Pass these in as arguments.  There's no need to recompile a
> > procedure for each and every different set of arguments that might
> > be passed to it.  That would defeat the point of having procedures
> > in the first place.
> 
> A binding isn't a procedure.

That depends on your interface to Tk ... in perl, a binding *is* a
procedure.  Well, actually it's either a procedure or a method name.

   bind $b '<Button>', sub { print "Button pressed.\n" };

The 'sub' keyword creates an unnamed procedure.

> Indeed, I'm pretty sure that [eval] doesn't
> cache bytecode in bindings because it's more inefficient than
> regenerating the bytecodes each time. It's good style to invoke a
> procedure, but hardly necessary. And indeed, putting something like
> "break" or "continue" inside a procedure called by a binding doesn't
> have the same effect as putting it in the binding.

What are the semantics of "break" and "continue" in a procedure, when
they don't refer to a label or loop within that procedure?

-- 
my $n = 2; print +(split //, 'e,4c3H r ktulrnsJ2tPaeh'
."\n1oa! er")[map $n = ($n * 24 + 30) % 31, (42) x 26]


From zjp at arches.uga.edu  Fri Nov 22 21:43:07 2002
From: zjp at arches.uga.edu (Jianping Zhu)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:43:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: can not find module Numeric
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.10.10211222134200.73412-100000@stats.arches.uga.edu>

I am new to python. I have installed python2.2 numarray-0.3.6.win32-py2.2
in my windows2000
machine but when i do import Numeric I got following error msg.

>>> import Numeric
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in ?
    import Numeric
ImportError: No module named Numeric
>>> import Numerical
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in ?
    import Numerical
ImportError: No module named Numerical 
My system path is.

>>> import sys
>>> sys.path
['C:\\Python22\\Tools\\idle', 'C:\\jz\\btv\\blackducktest\\OptimalPython',
'C:\\Python22', 'C:\\Python22\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python22\\lib',
'C:\\Python22\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python22\\lib\\site-packages',
'C:\\Python22\\lib\\site-packages\\numarray']
Can anybody tell me how to fix this problem?

Thanks

--------------------------------
Jianping Zhu
Department of Computer Science
Univerity of Georgia 
Athens, GA 30602
Tel 706 5423900
--------------------------------




From mstenner at phy.duke.edu  Mon Nov 25 13:31:10 2002
From: mstenner at phy.duke.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:31:10 -0500
Subject: sockets and encryption
In-Reply-To: <8hi2uuguh0l0jlmrao1fjshle68op1kt4s@4ax.com>; from p.nilsson@xtra.co.nz on Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 10:54:53PM +0100
References: <6pintugofjalm0sbg1u2g4q91bdonmbupk@4ax.com> <mailman.1037829043.12404.python-list@python.org> <8hi2uuguh0l0jlmrao1fjshle68op1kt4s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20021125133109.A8140@phy.duke.edu>

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 10:54:53PM +0100, Paul Nilsson wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:49:27 -0500, an infinite amount of monkeys
> hijacked the computer of Michael Stenner <mstenner at phy.duke.edu> and
> wrote:

Hey now...  I resent that!

> >Would SSL work for you?  That's basically made to do exactly what you
> >describe, no?
> 
> Doesn't ssl involve getting a certificate? I'm also not sure of other
> restraints that may be present, such as non ascii data. I'd rather
> just open a socket and push a raw bytestream without having to conform
> to a standard :)

I know this has mostly been cleared up.  I just wanted to point out
that SSL (which stands for Secure Socket Layer) is really intended to
be a drop-in socket replacement*, and can basically do everything
regular sockets can do.  As a sidenote, it is the way most of the S
protocols get their S, https, simap, pop3s.

The problem with simply encrypting traffic is that you're still
vulnerable to Man-in-the-Middle attacks.  That's where the certs come
in.  They are for authenticating the server.  If you're not worried
about that, then you can just have your client ignore it.  And as
mentioned by others, you can generate your own certs.  So-called
"self-signed certs" are actually pretty common on the web and it
shouldn't be hard to figure out how to make them.

If what you really want is something that looks and acts like a
socket, but is encrypted, then SSL is really the Right Thing(tm).

					-Michael

* OK, it's not a replacement per se, but another layer (hence the L)
  "inside" a regular socket, whose "inner interface" is again
  socketlike.
-- 
  Michael Stenner                       Office Phone: 919-660-2513
  Duke University, Dept. of Physics       mstenner at phy.duke.edu
  Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305



From wyojustin at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 12 20:43:56 2002
From: wyojustin at hotmail.com (Justin Shaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:43:56 -0500
Subject: another cgi / database concern (SQL vs. 'shelve')
References: <mailman.1037124918.32702.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <up6cnSJsr-D-M0ygXTWcqg@comcast.com>

> I have no experience with SQL, but I do have experience using shelve
> for persistent storage of data.
In this case shelve will be the quickest, least risk approach.

> I'd like to get some exposure to
> SQL, but ...
If you want to use this project to learn SQL, and can afford the time, do
it.  Allow extra time for setting up python with your database.  It is not
tough if you know what you are doing but "simple" problems can set you back
hours.  This is on top of comming up to speed on all of the database issues.
O'reily's _Access_Databse_2nd_Edition is a good beginning database book but
doesn't cover python.  I've heard good things about _SQL_in_a_Nutshell too
also by O'realy, but haven't read it myself.

> any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Solve your problem with shelve quickly.  In the mean time install MySQL and
work on the database end by itself until you are comfortable with SQL.  Then
adding the python layer will be a snap for your next suitable project.

Good Luck
Justin Shaw




From J.K.Wight at ncl.ac.uk  Wed Nov 27 11:48:37 2002
From: J.K.Wight at ncl.ac.uk (Jim Wight)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:48:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Get yesterday's date
References: <3de49b30$0$20703$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <mailman.1038393222.6573.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as2t15$s83$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:

> mxDateTime is often used (and is probably the easiest approach):
> 
>  >>> from mx.DateTime import *
>  >>> now()
> <DateTime object for '2002-11-27 05:27:05.00' at 1630918>
>  >>> now()+ RelativeDateTime( days=-1, hour=0, minute=0, second=0 )
> <DateTime object for '2002-11-26 00:00:00.00' at 16880c0>
>  >>> now()+RelativeDateTime( days=-1 )
> <DateTime object for '2002-11-26 05:28:40.00' at 16881d0>
>  >>> (now()+ RelativeDateTime( days=-1, hour=0, minute=0, second=0
> )).ticks()
> 1038286800.0

Or plain old time:

>>> import time
>>> time.localtime()[:3]
(2002, 11, 27)
>>> time.localtime(time.time()-24*60*60)[:3]
(2002, 11, 26)
>>>

Jim


From daniel at dittmar.net  Fri Nov 15 15:46:24 2002
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:46:24 +0100
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037380265.15644.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD55D20.4030000@dittmar.net>

sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
>>From: Daniel Dittmar [mailto:daniel.dittmar at sap.com]
>>zip, enumerate: readable, because you can search the docs for 
>>the words. It is also easy to implement variations: returning
>>other datatypes, returning an iterator to preserve memory. Thus
>>the whole program becomes easier to understand because similar
>>task are called in a similar way.
>>
>>list comprehension: not readable, because you don't know what to
>>search for.  You can't create dictionary comprehension or generator 
>>comprehension (both have been proposed on c.l.p), thus making the
>>resulting program less regular.


> But these are your *opinions*.  

No. These are criteria (or whatever the plural of criterion is), 
although of course there isn't a strict line between 'readable' and 'not 
readable'. Most Python programmers will agree that putting something 
into a library is generally a better choice than inventing a new syntax. 
Where some disagree is if building a list is so common that a new syntax 
makes the code actually more readable because the intentions are more 
explicit.

 > And while valid, others on the
> same list (or lists) have expressed nothing but rave reviews on
> the same things you don't like.

True. But the initial posters concern was that if more of these features 
make it into Python, than a specific quality and a specific user group 
(the casual Python programmer) may be lost.

Occasionally I have to change a Perl script, so I know what it is like 
if you can't look something up by a keyword.

> So, what to do?
> Macros, a-la Lisp, so anyone can have whatever syntax they want?
> A mishmash of features, like Perl?

Or perhaps nothing?

Daniel



From voodoo1man at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 10 16:57:37 2002
From: voodoo1man at hotmail.com (Vlad S.)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 13:57:37 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqltkt$14s$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <76c4da8e.0211101357.6a804d20@posting.google.com>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote in message news:<aqltkt$14s$1 at news.hccnet.nl>...
> On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:26:22 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>
> wrote:
> 
> >Did you know that s-exps (i.e. the paren heavy Lisp we know today) was
> >intended to be a temporary syntax, and that John McCarthy intended to
> >develop a more familiar syntax for Lisp?  Somehow he never did --
> >maybe because it turned out to be a bad idea?
> 
> That option seems to be available only to people having access to time
> machines. 

What exactly do you mean?

> Wouldn't it be possible to  write a macro for Lisp so that it uses
> newlines and indentation instead of parens?

Yes, it's been done before.
http://www-cgi.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/syntax/0.html
Nobody really cared about the efforts though. Right now, PLT is trying
to do something similar by including tools to let you embed and design
new grammars more easily. The 200 versions come with their example
Algol-60 implementation.

> I know almost all computer languages are indebted heavily to Lisp and
> it still has a lot more to give, but maybe it could accept something
> back? 

"Aha! That explains what inspired some of the idiotic, cryptic syntax
in some functional languages. Stolen from Lisp's garbage can. :)"

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&frame=right&th=78a437568712548&seekm=ur9bjojmm8osad%40corp.supernews.com#link4

That pretty much sums up my views on the topic. Why bother with layers
of parsers to translate cryptic, ambiguous and completely arbitrary
syntaxes to s-expressions (which will likely come out mangled, slow
and unreadable (haha - someone please reply with a parentheses joke)).
Make the algol-like syntax the internal representation, and you get
Dylan, and who wants another pseudo-functional infix language anyway.
There is absolutely no benefit for lisp in algol-like notation - you
lose almost all the macro-construction and abstractive advantages of
having your code represented as a nested (this implies that the
structure of your program is expressed in the code - score another
point for not needing a parser) data structure provided natively by
the language, and get a YAPFL (yet another pseudo functional
language). Last time I checked, Python fit into that category, so you
already have what you say you want.

To each man his own poison; I'll stick with lists, thank you very
much.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 29 08:16:23 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 14:16:23 +0100
Subject: PyXML unable to make_parser twice
References: <999e7ee9.0211281048.786d3867@posting.google.com> <m3vg2hmm9m.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <999e7ee9.0211290314.6a3f665a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3u1i05xeg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

the_mr_man26 at hotmail.com (Mr Man) writes:

> ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.1/xml/parsers/pyexpat.so: undefined
> symbol: _PyObject_GC_Del

Did you build PyXML from source? This function is not supposed to be
used for Python 2.1.

> I installed the 4Suite package (this is where PyExpat is isn't it?)
> from source but it didn't have any effect.  What do I need to do to
> ensure that PyExpat is installed correctly?

Build PyXML from source; xml.parsers.expat comes with PyXML (and also
with Python proper).

Regards,
Martin



From pedronis at bluewin.ch  Fri Nov 22 11:33:03 2002
From: pedronis at bluewin.ch (Samuele Pedroni)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:33:03 +0100
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <ALScnT7Y_Pep2EOgXTWcpg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3dde5f0b$1_4@news.bluewin.ch>

This should always/everywhere do the trick:

class _SupBehavior(object):
  def __repr__(self): return 'Sup'
  def __ge__(self,o): return True
  def __gt__(self,o): return self is not o
  def __lt__(self,o): return False
  def __le__(self,o): return self is o

Sup=_SupBehavior()




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 18 18:17:36 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:17:36 GMT
Subject: python lists?
References: <arbqs1$npd$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <kyeC9.26246$744.955329@news1.tin.it>

Dan Stromberg wrote:

> So are python lists real lists in the algorithmic sense, or something

They're closer to arrays.

> more?  I just saw a binary search of a python list using the bisect
> module, but it seems to me that should be something less than log2(n)

less?  you mean more?

> on a traditional linked list.  In fact, my first impression is that a
> binary search of a linked list is likely to be worse than a linear
> search.  Maybe a doubly linked list would be kinda reasonable.  Or

Nope.

> maybe something that's not quite a list but a weird hybrid-list-array
> thing?

No hybridization involved.

> Just what are python lists?  And is it an implementation detail I'm
> supposed to ignore for most purposes?

Basically arrays (that can grow and shrink as needed).  It's important
to know because of big-O level performance considerations: e.g. somelist[n] 
is O(1), *NOT* O(n), but on the other hand appending something at the 
_start_ of an N-length list is O(N) [appending at the end is amortized 
O(1)].


Alex



From timr at probo.com  Thu Nov 28 01:05:23 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:05:23 -0800
Subject: Newbie IDLE - import issues
References: <3DE3873E.7010300@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <lccbuu40smukoic4qi7k9sl21fg1b5h4j7@4ax.com>

Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> wrote:

>I must misunderstand things badly.
>
>Using IDLE: I have import statements where apparently necessary. I hit 
>Ctrl-F5 and I see print statements at the end of imported modules fire.
>
>But I still get errors on imported stuff being undefined.
>
>Then I open the imported file and ^f5 it and then I can ^f5 successfully 
>the importing file which before gave me an error.
>
>any help with this would be appreciated. As is I end up having to open 
>ten files and run them manually every morning.

Remember that an IDLE session is one big, long run of the interpreter.

A given module is only imported once.  Once it has been imported, Python
remembers that, and any subsequent imports become no-ops.

You can use "reload" to force another actual load.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From Maric.MICHAUD at cirec.com  Fri Nov 22 09:27:38 2002
From: Maric.MICHAUD at cirec.com (Maric MICHAUD)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:27:38 +0100
Subject: error with stat
Message-ID: <27E327AB8201B54495D54105FBBBB1485D131F@SRVMSG.GERLAND2.local>

I'm trying to get size of a big (2.1Go) file with a simple stat() call,
but it seems to fail to put the result in a int.
How do I do ?



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Mon Nov 25 10:59:04 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:59:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sockets and encryption
In-Reply-To: <lip3uu0r7u1l2v0rpv1v1n9klh7me7m5l3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211250753340.2910-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Paul Nilsson wrote:

> >Not necessarily - you can create your own certificate authority and have 
> >it issue a certificate for you. On the client side there's a one-line API 
> >call to allow certificates from non-authoritative sources.
> 
> Hmmm, but the software I'm creating will allow multiple clients and
> servers, the servers would have no interaction with each other and
> therefore no certificate authority.

No, that's not how it works. The certificate authority gives you a
certificate file (along with their certificate file) and that's it. It's a
few files on disk that your server uses - there's no interaction with the
certificate authority itself.

> >Not sure what you mean here - it's just a stream of bytes so there's no 
> >concept of ASCII or non-ASCII.
> 
> The only context I've heard ssl used in (although I'm sure it's used
> in a lot of other cases) is people transering *ML code accross the
> internet.

Ever used HTTPS to connect to a website? :)

> Since HTML is ascii and XML is unicode I thought this may put
> some limitations on what raw data could be sent. I had suspected that
> SSL incorporated a unicode layer which could cause problems if I
> wanted to send raw bytes (or I would have to converrt them to CDATA).

Ahh, I understand. Nope, SSL happens at a lower layer so there's no 
concept of ASCII vs binary or unicode. It's just a stream of bytes so 
whether they be HTML or image data or whatever it makes no difference.

Best of luck in whatever you choose,
Dave




From rtaranto at interia.pl  Sat Nov  9 04:57:27 2002
From: rtaranto at interia.pl (Roman Tarantowicz)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 01:57:27 -0800
Subject: Web based interface
References: <2027692.1036809220@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <82fe0bb.0211090157.39aa9ee8@posting.google.com>

Tetsuo <member at dbforums.com> wrote in message news:<2027692.1036809220 at dbforums.com>...
> It requires a
> database and a Web interface. It's hard to explain, but it's like a
> message board. I found a database (MySQL), a graphic interface for it
> (MySQLGUI), a module (MySQLdb), and they all even actually work. I also,
> after some struggle, found a magazine article that explained how to
> connect Python to MySQL. But I don't even know where to look to find out
> how to create dynamic Web pages with information from a database, read
> forms, and whatever else a message board could need.

Start searching from www.boddie.org.uk/python/web_frameworks.html
and http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming


From magnus at thinkware.se  Fri Nov  1 17:38:26 2002
From: magnus at thinkware.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 23:38:26 +0100
Subject: string.printable unchanged by locale
Message-ID: <ihDw9.831$%2.47@news1.bredband.com>

According to the Library Reference, string.printable is a combination
of digits, letters, punctuation, and whitespace. But it's not affected
by locale settings, as can be seen below. There are also symbols such
as the Euro symbol etc, that are definitely printable, that aren't
included in any of the categories mentioned above.

It's a bit boring that there is such an entity as string.printable,
and it's not fully useful for determining whether a keypress will
print something or not.

Why do I have to do something like:

if char in string.printable + string.letters +\
'\x80\x82\x84\x85\x86\x87\x88\x89\x8b\x91\x92\x93\x94\x95'+\'
'\x96\x97\x98\x99\x9b\xa1\xa2\xa3\xa4\xa5\xa6\xa7\xa8\xa9'+\
'\xaa\xab\xac\xad\xae\xaf\xb0\xb1\xb2\xb3\xb4\xb5\xb6\xb7'+\
'\xb8\xb9\xba\xbb\xbc\xbd\xbe\xbf\xd7\xf7':

Is this intentional or a bug? Now that we have ascii_letters and
letters, shouldn't this be ascii_printable, and printable include
all locale letters, and possibly other symbols such as currency
symbols, half, section etc that appear on the normal keyboards in
the locales.

Python 2.2.1 (#34, Sep 27 2002, 18:37:42) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import string
 >>> len(string.letters)
52
 >>> len(string.printable)
100
 >>> import locale
 >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
'Swedish_Sweden.1252'
 >>> len(string.letters)
122
 >>> len(string.printable)
100



From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Fri Nov 15 06:29:27 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:29:27 +0100
Subject: Reverse dictionnary
References: <nkz4rajw3ln.fsf@pinel.shfj.cea.fr>
Message-ID: <ar2lp2$h04$1@news.netpower.no>

"Julien Barbot" <barbot at shfj.cea.fr> wrote in message
news:nkz4rajw3ln.fsf at pinel.shfj.cea.fr...
> Hi,
> Does "reverse dictionnary" exists in python ?
> I would like to get a value with the key, and to get the key with the
value
> For example:
> d1 = {1:"str1", 2:"str2" }
>
> d1.getvalue(1) give me "str1"
> and
> g1.getkey("str1") give me 1
>
> With the result given as fast as normal dictionnaries.
>
> If this does not exists, I will simply do two dictionnaries, one with
> the integer as keys and the strings as values and the other one with
> the strings as keys and the intergers as values.
>
>
> Thanks for your help.
> --
> Julien Barbot

Having the same problem once, I used the following function.  I guess it's a
common enough situation, so maybe there are better ideas?

def invDict(d) :
    "Inverts the key, value relationship in a dictionary"
    return dict([(a, b) for (b, a) in d.items()])




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov  8 13:11:48 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 19:11:48 +0100
Subject: SGMLParser problem
References: <63170f57.0211080754.4d398296@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3heesue1n.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

sanjay2kind at yahoo.com (sanjay) writes:

> Any one has suggestion for following problem. Some word documents
> have been converted to HTML page in Ms-Word. Want to filter html tags
> like..
> <o:p></o:p>,
> <![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]>, etc. I couldn't solve
> using SGMLParser. Shows error like..

I recommend to use sgmlop for that, as distributed with PyXML.
Also, people use HTMLTidy for this specific task.

Regards,
Martin


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 20 03:30:01 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 09:30:01 +0100
Subject: Updating A Tkinter Window every 100 ms?
References: <b4d1dd0c.0211191629.3454e274@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3vg2s8wza.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

josiah7 at hotmail.com (Josiah) writes:

> Is there a better way? Why does the "lift()" function not work with
> "self.master.lift()"?

Because self has no attribute master. I suggest doing

self.master = master

inside __init__.

Regards,
Martin


From mwh at python.net  Sat Nov  9 08:14:46 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:14:46 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9b8hqa.eo3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqhmib$ei8$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <eppstein-DC177C.17122508112002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7h3adkiyjjr.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> writes:

> In article <aqhmib$ei8$2 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
>  Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Python is more like Lisp than most other languages, though.  It's
> > similar semantically.
> 
> This makes little sense to me.  Even the most basic data structures are 
> different: Lisp is based around singly linked lists

This marks you out as not knowing lisp very well, I'm afraid...

> while Python uses vectors (with efficient random access unlike Lisp
> lists) and dictionaries.  They are also not especially similar in
> programming style, although both are capable of being used with a
> wide variety of styles. The most important similarity I see is that
> in both languages, values have types but variables are untyped,

The way bindings and objects and assigment and so on work in Lisp and
Python is almost indistinguishable, esp. compared to C or perl.

> but that was also true in radically different languages such as
> Snobol and APL; is that really enough to conclude that Python and
> Lisp are more like each other than anything else?

Well, it depends on the universe of languages you are considering; if
you have 

 { Java, Python, ocaml, Common Lisp, C++, perl }

I'd say Python and CL look pretty similar.

If you have

 { MacLisp, Lisp Machine Lisp, InterLisp, Lisp 1.5, Python }

then Python is obviously the odd one out.  And so on.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
112. Computer Science is embarrassed by the computer.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html


From heiler at nospam-uni-mannheim.de  Fri Nov  8 09:11:13 2002
From: heiler at nospam-uni-mannheim.de (Matthias Heiler)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:11:13 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqggps$d43$1@trumpet.uni-mannheim.de>

Hi,

Python comes with a set of really usefull libraries, so you can do many 
interesting things easily.  For many people this more than compensates for 
its slow execution time (compared to compiled common lisp).  Open-source 
libraries for common lisp are rare.  Scheme doesn't even define how a 
"library" should look like.

A second reason for Python's popularity might be that the Python community 
is particularly friendly towards beginners.

Matthias

Oleg wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
> between Python and Common Lisp (
> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
> 
> Oleg



From haering_postgresql at gmx.de  Thu Nov 21 04:51:04 2002
From: haering_postgresql at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 09:51:04 GMT
Subject: Checking for nonzero-ness using Python C-API
References: <mailman.1037849489.18897.python-list@python.org> <m3r8dfuzde.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnatpb1j.bu.haering_postgresql@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Martin v. Loewis wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Gerhard Haering <gerhard.haering at gmx.de> writes:
> 
>> How do I check for the nonzero-ness of a PyObject using the Python C-API?
> 
> Use PyObject_IsTrue.

Ah. Thanks.

-- Gerhard


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Nov 15 21:29:37 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:29:37 -0600
Subject: list.reverse()
In-Reply-To: <ar49h9$si9$1@ins22.netins.net> (Mike Dean's message of "Fri,
 15 Nov 2002 20:16:30 -0600")
References: <ar49h9$si9$1@ins22.netins.net>
Message-ID: <m265uyjlgu.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Mike" == Mike Dean <klaatu at evertek.net> writes:

    Mike> I think I recall seeing a reasonable explanation for this
    Mike> earlier (probably referring actually to list.sort()), but
    Mike> I'm wondering - what was the rationale for making
    Mike> list.reverse() reverse a list in-place rather than return a
    Mike> new, reversed list?  I'm sure there's a good reason, but
    Mike> what might that be?

Efficiency.  You may not need a copy of both the list and the reversed
list. 

This gives you the choice of convenience (add your own copy semantics)
or efficiency.  If reverse always returned a copy, you'd be stuck with
convenience or writing your own in place reverse (which is harder than
writing your own copy)

class mylist(list):
    def reversecopy(self):
        new = self[:]
        new.reverse()
        return new

x = mylist([1,2,3,4])

y = x.reversecopy()
print x
print y


John Hunter



From grante at visi.com  Thu Nov 21 19:51:43 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 00:51:43 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3DDD711D.2000802@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <3ddd7f9f$0$4484$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3DDD711D.2000802 at skippinet.com.au>, Mark Hammond wrote:

>> I've verified that the above is correct. I wrote a C program
>> that verifies that the value pointed to by the pointer passed
>> to WaitCommEvent() is written to later: after the event
>> happens.
> 
>:(
> 
> So what do we do?

I was afraid you were going to ask that.  :)

> We can't break backward compatibility.

So whatever we do, the WaitCommEvent call has to return a tuple
of two integers?

Well a quick fix would be to make the mask value static. That
would prevent possible stack corruption, but there'd be no way
to get the delayed mask value after doing overlapped
WaitCommEvents. And, it could break existing apps that do
multiple simultaneous WaitCommEvent() calls.  Probably not a
good idea.

Could we add a field to the Python version of the overlapped
object that could be used as persistent storage for this?  The
overlapped object defines the context for the request.  Or use
one of the fields in the existing in the C OVERLAPPED struct
(maybe Offset?  It's supposedly ignored for communications
devices -- though using it for some other purpose is asking for
trouble).

> I guess we may need a new function that manages a little 4-byte
> buffer for this value.

I guess, but I don't know how that would work without breaking
backwards compatibility.

> Suggestions welcome.  Obviously, code even more so <wink>

Oy.  I barely know C++, and don't have much of an idea how the
whole library-wrapping scheme works.  Can the Win32 extensions
be built with Borland C?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. If I had heart
                                  at               failure right now,
                               visi.com            I couldn't be a more
                                                   fortunate man!!


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Fri Nov  1 18:14:10 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:14:10 -0800
Subject: ActivePython 2.2.1
In-Reply-To: <3dc29edd_2@news.vo.lu>; from pu@myRealBox.com on Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 04:37:55PM +0100
References: <3dc29edd_2@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <20021101151410.A27721@ActiveState.com>

[pu wrote]
> I am currently considering to use ActivePython, but I have two questions
> about this:
> - is ActivePython 2.2.1 based on Python 2.2.2, or on an other version?

It is based upon Python 2.2.1.

> - what is the normal elapsed time between an official Python release, and
> the release of an updated version of ActivePython?

Hopefully we should have ActivePython 2.2.2 builds for you sometime next
week. We try to release ActivePython soon after a Python release. Python
2.2.2 happened to come out right in the middle of a Komodo release cycle
(another project I work on) so there has been a little bit of a delay.


Cheers,
Trent


-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From bryan at akanta.com  Wed Nov 20 14:45:47 2002
From: bryan at akanta.com (Bryan)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:45:47 GMT
Subject: PyOpenGL install issues....
Message-ID: <3DDBE669.6060304@akanta.com>

Hi,

I am trying to install PyOpenGL for the first time on a Redhat 8.0 
system.  I am getting errors though, anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
Bryan


root at mymachine PyOpenGL-2.0.0.44> python setup.py build

SWIG Version 1.1 (Patch 5)
Copyright (c) 1995-98
University of Utah and the Regents of the University of California
Compiled with c++
warning: build_w: Can't find SWIG, will just have to do with the 
existing wrapper source.
cc1: warning: changing search order for system directory 
"/usr/local/include"
cc1: warning:   as it has already been specified as a non-system directory
cc1: warning: changing search order for system directory "/usr/include"
cc1: warning:   as it has already been specified as a non-system directory
In file included from /usr/include/python2.2/numarray/libnumarray.h:16,
                  from /usr/include/python2.2/numarray/arrayobject.h:11,
                  from src/config.h:123,
                  from _configtest.c:4:
/usr/include/python2.2/numarray/numarray.h:28: warning: useless keyword 
or type name in empty declaration
/usr/include/python2.2/numarray/numarray.h:28: warning: empty declaration
cc1: warning: changing search order for system directory 
"/usr/local/include"
cc1: warning:   as it has already been specified as a non-system directory
cc1: warning: changing search order for system directory "/usr/include"
cc1: warning:   as it has already been specified as a non-system directory
In file included from /usr/include/python2.2/numarray/libnumarray.h:16,
                  from /usr/include/python2.2/numarray/arrayobject.h:11,
                  from src/config.h:123,
                  from _configtest.c:4:
/usr/include/python2.2/numarray/numarray.h:28: warning: useless keyword 
or type name in empty declaration
/usr/include/python2.2/numarray/numarray.h:28: warning: empty declaration
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/twburton/__init__.py' 
not found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/tom/__init__.py' not 
found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/simple/__init__.py' 
not found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/redbook/__init__.py' 
not found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/dek/__init__.py' not 
found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 
'OpenGL/Demo/dek/OglSurface/__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/da/__init__.py' not 
found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/NeHe/__init__.py' not 
found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 
'OpenGL/Demo/GLUT/examples/__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/GLE/__init__.py' not 
found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/scripts/__init__.py' not 
found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/twburton/__init__.py' 
not found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/tom/__init__.py' not 
found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/simple/__init__.py' 
not found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/redbook/__init__.py' 
not found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/dek/__init__.py' not 
found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 
'OpenGL/Demo/dek/OglSurface/__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/da/__init__.py' not 
found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/NeHe/__init__.py' not 
found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 
'OpenGL/Demo/GLUT/examples/__init__.py' not found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/Demo/GLE/__init__.py' not 
found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'OpenGL/scripts/__init__.py' not 
found (or not a regular file)
cc1: warning: changing search order for system directory 
"/usr/local/include"
cc1: warning:   as it has already been specified as a non-system directory
cc1: warning: changing search order for system directory "/usr/include"
cc1: warning:   as it has already been specified as a non-system directory
In file included from /usr/include/python2.2/numarray/libnumarray.h:16,
                  from /usr/include/python2.2/numarray/arrayobject.h:11,
                  from src/config.h:123,
                  from src/interface_util/interface_util.c:1:
/usr/include/python2.2/numarray/numarray.h:28: warning: useless keyword 
or type name in empty declaration
/usr/include/python2.2/numarray/numarray.h:28: warning: empty declaration
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`_PyObject_FromUnsignedCharArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:117: `PyArray_API' undeclared (first 
use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:117: (Each undeclared identifier is 
reported only once
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:117: for each function it appears in.)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function `_PyObject_FromCharArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:124: `PyArray_API' undeclared (first 
use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function `_PyObject_FromShortArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:133: `PyArray_API' undeclared (first 
use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function `_PyObject_FromIntArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:142: `PyArray_API' undeclared (first 
use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function `_PyObject_FromFloatArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:149: `PyArray_API' undeclared (first 
use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`_PyObject_FromDoubleArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:156: `PyArray_API' undeclared (first 
use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`NonNumeric_PyObject_AsFloatArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:698: warning: suggest parentheses 
around assignment used as truth value
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`Numeric_PyObject_AsFloatArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:699: `SAVESPACEBIT' undeclared 
(first use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function `_PyObject_AsFloatArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:699: `PyArray_API' undeclared (first 
use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`NonNumeric_PyObject_AsDoubleArray':
src/interface_util/isrc/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`Numeric_PyObject_AsDoubleArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:702: `SAVESPACEBIT' undeclared 
(first use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function `_PyObject_AsDoubleArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:702: `PyArray_API' undeclared (first 
use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`NonNumeric_PyObject_AsCharArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:704: warning: suggest parentheses 
around assignment used as truth value
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`Numeric_PyObject_AsCharArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:705: `SAVESPACEBIT' undeclared 
(first use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function `_PyObject_AsCharArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:705: `PyArray_API' undeclared (first 
use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`NonNumeric_PyObject_AsUnsignedCharArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:707: warning: suggest parentheses 
around assignment used as truth value
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`Numeric_PyObject_AsUnsignedCharArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:708: `SAVESPACEBIT' undeclared 
(first use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`_PyObject_AsUnsignedCharArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:708: `PyArray_API' undeclared (first 
use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`NonNumeric_PyObject_AsShortArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:710: warning: suggest parentheses 
around assignment used as truth value
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`Numeric_PyObject_AsShortArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:711: `SAVESPACEBIT' undeclared 
(first use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function `_PyObject_AsShortArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:711: `PyArray_API' undeclared (first 
use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`NonNumeric_PyObject_AsUnsignedShortArray':nterface_util.c:701: warning: 
suggest parentheses around assignment used as truth value
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:713: warning: suggest parentheses 
around assignment used as truth value
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`NonNumeric_PyObject_AsIntArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:716: warning: suggest parentheses 
around assignment used as truth value
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`Numeric_PyObject_AsIntArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:717: `SAVESPACEBIT' undeclared 
(first use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function `_PyObject_AsIntArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:717: `PyArray_API' undeclared (first 
use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function 
`NonNumeric_PyObject_AsUnsignedIntArray':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:719: warning: suggest parentheses 
around assignment used as truth value
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: In function `_PyObject_Dimension':
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:757: `PyArray_API' undeclared (first 
use in this function)
src/interface_util/interface_util.c: At top level:
src/interface_util/interface_util.c:780: warning: function declaration 
isn't a prototype
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
root at mymachine PyOpenGL-2.0.0.44>



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 18 04:25:53 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:25:53 GMT
Subject: popkey() method for dictionaries?
References: <ar7i50$3ib$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1037569703.8212.python-list@python.org> <ar97b6$514$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <g21C9.10147$br6.5755@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <Bm2C9.29398$Yw.1473263@news2.tin.it>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:

>> [ 639806 ] Optional argument for dict.pop() method
>>
>> at:
>>
> 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=639806&group_id=54
> 70&atid=105470
>>
>> Sorry but I just saw that my proof-of-concept code in python got squashed
> by
>> SF. I didn't know that SF removed all leading whitespace, hence
>> destroying indentation. Here it is again for reference:
> 
> Do you have use cases demonstrating the value of a default rather than an
> exception?

I'm not the OP, but: while I still have no use of dict.pop in my code (as
I need to keep my code compating with Python versions that lack dict.pop),
those areas of my code where I'd LIKE to eventually insert dict.pop are
as follows:

-- some base class X has methods that accept a lot of keyword arguments -- 
   e.g. X can typically be some GUI widget
-- I subclass X with my own Y to specialize some behavior, and typically
   want to add some specialized options (keyword arguments) of mine

So my code typically runs something like:

class Y(X):

    specialized_options = {'foo': 23, 'bar': 42, 'baz': 66}

    def __init__(self, **kwds):
        # get specialized opts out of kwds:
        specialized_options = {}
        for opt in self.specialized_options:
            try:
                val = kwds[opt]
            except KeyError:
                val = self.specialized_options[opt]
            else:
                del kwds[opt]
            specialized_options[opt] = val
        X.__init__(self, **kwds)
        for opt, val in specialized_options.items():
            setattr(self, opt, val)

or obvious variants such as starting with
        specialized_options = self.specialized_options.copy()
and/or using "if opt in kwds" rather than the try/except (not
much in it one way or another), and/or looping with "for opt, val"
on self.specialized_options.items() [or .iteritems()], etc.  (Of
course I could use a list of pairs just as well as a dict for
specialized_options, etc, etc -- just pointing all of these obvious
and irrelevant issues in the faint hope that followups won't detour
on them but rather stay focused on the .pop issue...:-).

Now, if I could use dict.pop _with exception behavior only_ that might 
become (repeating the body of __init__ only):

        specialized_options = {}
        for opt in self.specialized_options:
            try:
                val = kwds.pop(opt)
            except KeyError:
                val = self.specialized_options[opt]
            specialized_options[opt] = val
        X.__init__(self, **kwds)
        for opt, val in specialized_options.items():
            setattr(self, opt, val)

this IS a slight enhancement -- I save the else clause in the
try/except in the for loop's body.  But, rather slight: I still
do need the try/except, or equivalently an "if opt in kwds" test.

If I could give dict.pop a default value, then I would need
no try/except nor any membership-test:

        specialized_options = {}
        for opt in self.specialized_options:
             val = kwds.pop(opt, self.specialized_options[opt])
            specialized_options[opt] = val
        X.__init__(self, **kwds)
        for opt, val in specialized_options.items():
            setattr(self, opt, val)

I think this is a substantial simplification.  I might or might
not bother doing the refactoring to use kwds.pop with the exception,
as the enhancement is so slight, but this one I'd jump for.  Further,
removing the need to handle the exceptions would enable me to use
a list comprehension instead if I so wished:

        specialized_options = [ (opt, kwds.pop(opt, val))
            for opt, val in self.specialized_options.items() ]

replacing the first 4 statements in the latest snippet -- I'd definitely 
not make specialized_options a dict in this case, as a list of pairs is 
obviously simpler to build -- so the final for would be:
        for opt, val in specialized_options:
            setattr(self, opt, val)
instead.

Not sure if I'd go for this one.  Hmmm, perhaps.  But I'd sure
like to have the option, anyway.


> Also, discuss why similarity with dict.get() applies instead of symmetry
> with list.pop() or dict.popitem().

popitem has no symmetry whatsoever since it takes no argument, of course.  
So, I must be missing something: WHAT symmetry?

lists have no .get method which lets you supply a default.  Maybe they 
should, because I sure DO code very often:
    if 0 <= i < len(somelist):
        xx = somelist[i]
    else:
        xx = somedefault
or variants thereof where i's allowed to be negative down to -len(somelist),
and being able to code "xx = somelist.get(i, somedefault)", just as I could 
with a dictionary instead of a list, might be quite handy.

list.pop can take 0 or 1 argument.  If you're claiming there is symmetry, 
you must be proposing to have dict.pop take 0 or 1 argument too -- but 
that's not the case (it might have been a possible design, but instead a 
separate .popitem method was introduced for dictionaries).  Since there is 
no symmetry anyway, there is no argument for symmetry between list.pop and 
dict.pop.

I'm not sure what's being proposed for somedict.pop(x) (called with just 
one argument) to do when "x not in somedict" -- I'd like that to raise an 
exception, NOT meekly return None.  So, I'm not pumping for strong symmetry 
between dict.get and dict.pop -- not sure if the proposal as tabled is.  
The point is that, when you're simply accessing an item, you can already 
choose between:
    somedict[x]
when you want x's absence to raise an exception, versus
    somedict.get(x)
when you want x's absence to meekly return None instead.  Both behaviors 
are useful in different circumstances (i.e. whether you expect or not that 
absence, or whether in the absence case you must perform some very 
different processing).  I would NOT like it if there was no handy way to 
say "delete-and-return somedict[x] which SHOULD be there so please give me 
an exception if it isn't" which is probably more common than the cases 
where you fully expect it to possibly not be there.

The analogy rather than symmetry that I see is with builtin getattr: if I 
don't supply a default I get an exception if the attribute is absent, but I 
also get the opportunity to supply a default and avoid the exception.


Alex



From david at dataovation.com  Thu Nov  7 17:54:29 2002
From: david at dataovation.com (David McInnis)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:54:29 -0800
Subject: Email Parse and Python Cookbook
Message-ID: <004b01c286b0$a169d970$6400a8c0@bigdaddy>

I am trying to create a script that will read and parse all of my
support email messages.  The ultimate goal is to inject these messages
into our support queue and save the attached files to disk.  I am using
Qmail / vpopmail which is great because each message is stored as a file
and each account has its own directory structure.  Therefore I do not
need to connect to a pop3 account and can save on the network overhead.
 
My problem is this.  I am using a sample out of the Python Cookbook but
this example fails on some messages.  Works on most. 
 
David McInnis
 
 
 
# ********* HERE IS MY SCRIPT 
 
#!/usr/local/bin/python2.2
 
import sys
import os
import email.Parser
import types
 
def main():
 
    dir = "/usr/scripts/dev/files/"
 
    maildir = "/home/vpopmail/domains/mydomain.com/support/Maildir/cur"
    for file in os.listdir(maildir):
 
        print os.path.join(maildir, file)
 
        fp = open(os.path.join(maildir, file), "rb")
        p = email.Parser.Parser()
        msg = p.parse(fp)
        fp.close()
        #print msg.get("From")
        #print msg.get("Content-Type")
 
        counter = 1
        for part in msg.walk():
          if part.get_main_type() == 'multipart':
            continue
 
          filename = part.get_param("name")
          if filename==None:
                filename = "part-%i" % counter
          counter += 1
 
 
          fp = open(os.path.join(dir, filename), 'wb')
          print os.path.join(dir, filename)
          fp.write(part.get_payload(decode=1))
          fp.close()
 
 
if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()
 
# ********* HERE IS THE RESULT OF EXECUTING THE SCRIPT
 
]#./inject.py
/home/vpopmail/domains/mydomain.com/support/Maildir/cur/1036001583.5676.
wf.mydomain.com,S=119691:2,
/usr/scripts/dev/files/part-1
/usr/scripts/dev/files/part-2
/usr/scripts/dev/files/SaucierPresentation_Resume.p4495.f36064.doc
/usr/scripts/dev/files/SaucierPresentation_Cover_Ltr.p4495.f36065.doc
/home/vpopmail/domains/
mydomain.com/support/Maildir/cur/1036006414.8616.wf.mydomain.com,S=14076
8:2,
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./inject.py", line 49, in ?
    main()
  File "./inject.py", line 24, in main
    msg = p.parse(fp)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Parser.py", line 41, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Parser.py", line 134, in
_parsebody
    msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Parser.py", line 45, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text))
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Parser.py", line 40, in parse
    self._parseheaders(root, fp)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Parser.py", line 81, in
_parseheaders
    raise Errors.HeaderParseError(
email.Errors.HeaderParseError: Not a header, not a continuation 
 
 
-------------- next part --------------
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From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Nov 11 11:17:03 2002
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:17:03 -0500
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: </f9z9ks/KbEa089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8 at posting.google.com>,
a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya) wrote:
>My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
>a single line of code.
>
>perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
>
>can python do something like this?

   One-liner contests are noxious, but what the heck; the
first 10, governed by the xrange ..


print reduce (lambda x,y: (x[1],x[0]+x[1], x[2]+[x[1]]), xrange(10), (0,1,[]))[2]


   While this may look a tad obscure, note that it needn't
just print the series, it makes the members available in a
list for other processing.  And there's an easy way to
generate only as much of the series as you might want.


   The obvious attempt,

a,b=0,1; while 1: print b; a,b = b, a+b

gets into trouble at `while`.  Since whitespace is
significant in Python programs, there are limits to the kind
of vaguely-related stuff you can mash onto one line.

        Regards.        Mel.


From pajer at iname.com  Mon Nov  4 15:24:14 2002
From: pajer at iname.com (Gary Pajer)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:24:14 -0500
Subject: wxPython style question
Message-ID: <cCWdnVnrY5HsSlugXTWcog@comcast.com>

I'm trying to learn my way around wxPython.  I'm relatively new to python.

I have (at least) two choices when it comes time to create an object (say a
wxPanel). The first is what most demos seem to do:  I can make it an
instance attribute of the Frame (referred to by self):

def  __init__(self, ...):
      self.panel1 = wxPanel(self, ...)
      etc.

And then reference to the Panel is always available via self.panel1

  Or I can call the constructor without "self" in which case (if I
understand the mechanics) the wxWindow object is created, but the wxPython
object that wraps it dissapears after __init__ finishes.

def __init__(...):
       panel1 = wxPanel(self, name="panel1", ... )
       etc.


Now,  if I want to change an attribute of the Panel:
In the former case,  I call

self.panel1.wxSetWhatever().    (where self is the wxFrame instance)


In the later, I need to find the wxWindow version of the Panel.  I can do
this by giving the Panel a name at creation, and then searching for the name
later, e.g. in a callback routine:

def  ProcessMenuSelection(self,event):
       panel = self.FindWindowByName("panel1")
       panel.wxSetWhatever()
       etc.

The later method has some asthetic appeal to me because it does not litter
the source code with so many  selfs, and it doesn't create attributes that
might serve no purpose.
These reasons may not be good reasons.  Is there some reason for preferring
one approach over the other?
Am I missing some key point?

TIA,
Gary






From catonano at inwind.it  Sat Nov 23 13:39:21 2002
From: catonano at inwind.it (catonano at inwind.it)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 10:39:21 -0800
Subject: Zope on MacOs X trobleshooting
References: <e1119919.0211211217.1875e02a@posting.google.com> <257c96b0.0211221744.60ff122@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e1119919.0211231039.334db022@posting.google.com>

Dan,

thanks. Really. It seams you're right.

I came into the Office where I touched Zope for the first time and got
connected to their LAN. Zope works.

When I was home, it didn't.

So I have to thank you since now I can at least work with Zope.

Still there are some things I don't understand. You wrote:

> 'Catonano.local.' is a Rendezvous address.  It appears that you were
> NOT connected to a network when you tried to install and therefore
> your Macintosh is using the default Rendezvous address.

In fact I was NOT connected to a net when I got that output from
hostname but now I am and I still get the same output. The only
difference is that Zope now is working.

I opened the System Preferences app and switched the network
preferences as I was home again, with no ethernet and a modem instead.
So I was offline.

hostname still gave me the same output but Zope kept working. I
unplugged the ethernet cable and relaunched Zope. It worked.

So, obviously there's some big thing I'm missing about the network
layer working in MacOs X.
 
> More likely that not, Zope doesn't understand that the hostname may
> change between launches where in one instance you were connected to
> the net and the next you are not.

Since the hostname output is the same, how can Zope detect what the
network situation is?

More clearly: how can I install Zope in a way it doesn't depend on the
network I was on when I installed?

Thanks, anyhow, for what you already wrote so far.
But please, please, please, would you tell me the bit more I need to
work comfortly? Thanks!
Bye
Catonano


From shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  9 13:58:30 2002
From: shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com (Richard Dillingham)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 18:58:30 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7h31y5uyj81.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <slrnasqf9a.mjr.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <qVcz9.25108$6b.985891@news2.east.cox.net>

> The only thing that could make me at all comfortable with using Lisp
> would be if I had an editor that would color-highlight not keywords or
> strings, as color-highlighting usually goes, but levels of parenthesis
> indentation. So that this:
>
> (a (b (c (d e))))
>

> The prefix notation doesn't bother me overly much, but the parentheses
> kill it for me.

I wonder why you aren't writing
(a
    (b
        (c
            (d e)
        )
    )
)

That's much easier to read than what you had.

The issue with 'Python being easier to read than Lisp,' IMHO, is mainly that
Python FORCES you to use indentation, whereas Lisp does not.

Since Lisp does not force you to write readable code, you have to force
yourself to use indentation.

Whether this is a fault of the programmer for not behaving, or a fault of
the compiler for not forcing the programmer to behave, is debatable.

But I don't see a bunch of C programmers typing
if (a) { if (b) { if (c) { asdf; } else { zzzz; }} else { foo; }} else
{bar;}
like a Lisp coder might type
(if (a) (if (b) (if (c) (asdf) (zzzz)) (foo)) (bar))

Those are both unreadable, and much more reable written as follows:
if (a) {
    if (b) {
        if (c) {
            asdf;
        } else {
            zzzz;
        }
    } else {
        foo;
    }
} else {
    bar;
}

Or (and you could put comments in here to show where the else blocks are)
(if (a)
    (if (b)
        (if (c)
            (asdf)
            (zzzz)
        )
        (foo)
    )
    (bar)
)

Of course, Python's syntax is the easiest of all to read (due to needing no
{}s or ()s at all (for this)):
if a:
    if b:
        if c:
            asdf
        else:
            zzzz
    else:
        foo
else:
    bar

I personally like not needing the ()s or {}s for situations like this.




From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Mon Nov 18 19:55:04 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:55:04 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
In-Reply-To: <yifC9.17375$0U1.1739527@news2.east.cox.net>
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <mailman.1037662109.12626.python-list@python.org> <yifC9.17375$0U1.1739527@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <200211190055.QAA01950@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

This is top posting (putting you reply before text you are replying to).

On Monday 18 November 2002 16:09, Richard Dillingham wrote:
> What's top-posting?

   See above.

> Also, I knew that a,b normally evaluates to a tuple, but it already doesn't
> in an if-statement. I get a syntax error instead.

There have been enough responses to this, so I'll try to be terse:

if 1:    -->  not a syntax error
if (1,):  --> not a syntax error
if 1,:  --> a syntax error

Why?

Because (for example) this is an expression:

(1,) != (0,)

and this is a syntax error:

1, != 0,

If you fail to add the parenthesis, then why not write this:

if 1,2 == 3,4:

as this:

if 1,2, == 3,4,:

which is a syntax error.  The paretheses make your intentions clearer (and 
hence, are so often seen surrounding tuples.

However, this is still not what you want, because:

>>> (1, 2==3, 4)
(1, 0, 4)
>>> 1,2 == 3,4
(1, 0, 4)

Now you are constructing a tuple, and the '==' is used to detemine whether 
the middle value is true or false.  The whole expression then gets executed 
if the tuple as a whole compares true or false.

In short, don't do this!

Instead, unpack your tuple and create a single expression:

if ((a == c) and (b == d)):

In general, trying to get fancy in an if statement is asking for trouble.  
Either do the tricky expression above it, and save the truth value, or be 
very explicit in the order you wish things to evaluate (or both).

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Nov 23 06:27:16 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 12:27:16 +0100
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <TUrD9.58023$Yw.2622115@news2.tin.it> <3DDF1E7B.CCE2BCD3@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <arnoop$adf$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:21:47 -0800, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>Well, it was obviously done for mathematical reasons -- there is
>explicitly no ordering defined for complex numbers.  In the light of
>Python's inclination to allow comparison of arbitrary, heterogeneous
>types, it certainly does have the feel of a wart, despite its
>mathematical correctness.

The problem with stable orderings and -- to generalize -- with
"status quo" situations is that they are seductive. Seductive is meant
in the sense that they present themselves as the only viable
alternative, while for creativity to have a chance it is necessary to
contemplate the alternatives. This conflict between stability and
change reveals itself - no wonder - when trying to sort *imaginary*
numbers. Related concepts: premature optimization, lexicographic
ordering, the root of all evil.

Regards,
      		Anton.

---
         Coming to Meet. The maiden is powerful.
         One should not marry such a maiden.


(I Ching 44)


From max at malva.uaREMOVE.IT  Mon Nov 18 03:29:34 2002
From: max at malva.uaREMOVE.IT (Max Ischenko)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:29:34 +0200
Subject: Unit testing - Using Java Mock Objects in Python?
References: <mailman.1037196441.25773.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ed8ara.epl.ln@cvs>

 Quinet, Joel wrote:

> Has anybody already tried to re-use or port the Java implementation 
> of Mock ojects (available on www.mockobjects.com) to Python?

There is a pure python implementation of Mock.
Don't have a url but my version is about 2K in size. ;)

> Is it possible to combine the Java Mock objects with Python using
> Jython?
> 
> It would be great to have available the Java Mock classes available to
> be used from Python.

-- 
Max Ischenko, a kind of programmer at CJSC "Malva".


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 15 17:56:17 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:56:17 -0800
Subject: rm -rf in python?
In-Reply-To: <200211152012.17347.rjones@ekit-inc.com>
References: <3DD478CD.2080608@verio.net> <200211150508.VAA12921@mail.arc.nasa.gov> <200211152012.17347.rjones@ekit-inc.com>
Message-ID: <200211152256.OAA17891@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Friday 15 November 2002 01:12, Richard Jones wrote:

> shutil.rmtree

Ah, yes.  I should have said that the standard python libraries probably had 
such a call (I didn't remember one in the os module).  I just meant that any 
implementation, such as shutil.rmtree(), would operate by removing all files 
in a directory (perhaps recursively), before removing the directory.  I was 
answering the technical question of how to remove a directory, rather than 
the practical question of what standard code exists that already does this. 
:)  My apologies for being unclear.

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 13:31:14 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:31:14 GMT
Subject: variable scope
References: <3DDD157D.3090609@libero.it>
Message-ID: <SD9D9.52523$Yw.2401234@news2.tin.it>

bart wrote:

> Could I modify variable present inside an object's method from external
> module without override method of this class?

No.  It makes no difference whether a local variable is a local
variable of a method or a local variable of some other function:
you cannot modify that local variable from anywhere except the
very function or method it's local to.  That's what local MEANS.


> Another question is: can I override an object's method locate in modeule
> B from module A when this object is created from another functions
> presents inside module B?
> 
> Example:
> 
> Module A ---->  Module B ---> function A ---> function B ---> object A

That's a bit hard to follow -- you may want to post to it.comp.lang with 
[Python] at the start of your subject to put your question in Italian, or
visit www.python.it and join one or more of the mailing lists mentioned
there, again so you can explain your problem in Italian and I (or any of
the many other Italian Python enthusiasts) can answer similarly.

Anyway, what I think you're asking for can be done but it's tricky.
Say that B.py is as follows:

class Bclass:
  def say(self): print "ciao"
def Bfunc():
  return Bclass()


And you would like your A.py module to be able to do:

import B

class Aclass(B.Bclass):
  def say(self): print "salve"

# do something magical here

B.Bfunc().say()

and have it print "salve".  OK, then if that's what you want
you can do it -- in place of the "#do something magical here" put:

B.Bclass = Aclass

and there you are.  It IS tricky, because ALL later uses of
B.Bclass get affected, not JUST those in function B.Bfunc...
you can get THAT effect too, but it's even trickier and it
starts to edge into black magic...:

import new
fakeglobalsdict = B.__dict__
fakeglobalsdict['Bclass'] = Aclass
B.BFunc = new.function(B.BFunc.func_code, fakeglobalsdict)

that requires several caveats and I'm not going to post a
couple thousand lines about it -- perhaps it's better if you
explain (here or in the Italian NG/mailing lists) WHAT you
are trying to achieve with such trickery, there may be
simpler ways;-).


Alex



From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Nov 22 19:22:13 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 00:22:13 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de>:
...
| Just recently I have encountered some useful terminological distinctions 
| in c.l.l that made sense to me. There you have the imperative and 
| message-passing paradigms on the one hand, and the procedural and 
| object-oriented style on the other hand. The interesting bit is that 
| these things are independent. So procedural style is well-suited for the 
| imperative paradigm and object-oriented is well-suited for the 
| message-passing paradigm. However, you can also do message-passing in a 
| purely procedural languages as well as use the imperative style in most 
| object-oriented languages. I guess that you are thinking along these 
| lines as well.

Perhaps I could be, if message passing were clearer to me!

| > Probably the best counter example, of a language that emphasizes
| > what I'm calling ``equational'' rather than procedural, is Haskell.
| > It's the most prominent example of a ``non-strict, purely functional''
| > programming language (``non-strict'' is a queer term that probably
| > doesn't mean what you think.)  Haskell has a type class system that
| > supports polymorphism, but it's no OOPL.  There's an O'Haskell offshoot
| > that I find really interesting (though evidently I'm alone on that,
| > because it seems to be a dead project), and it really illustrates the
| > point by adding OO to Haskell and not making it a bit like any ordinary
| > OOPL.
|
| Yes, this kind of pure languages is very interesting. However, I have 
| doubts that they are of practical importance. Purely functional or 
| purely declarative programs can be very intriguing when they are in a 
| "finished" state, but this hides the fact that it's harder in these 
| languages to get to such a "finished" state IMHO. It's more important 
| what kind of support a programming language gives you as long as a 
| program does _not_ work (because that's what they do most of time during 
| development). From my experience, you need an easily accessible 
| operational model of what goes on behind the scenes in order to 
| understand why a program does not work. Languages like Haskell and, for 
| example, Prolog make it hard to have an understanding of the operational 
| model. Both the imperative and the message-passing paradigm have 
| comparably simple operational models.

It can be much harder to get something done in pure FP, at least
that's true for me.  Now, this is obviously because I ``think in
Python'', or rather I think in procedural terms, and someone who
``thinks in Haskell'' will have less trouble.  But I think you're
right, it is essentially more demanding in some ways.  My point was
that when it seems like it's easier to think in Python, we have to
remember that it's still hard to write good software, and the thinking
still has to be done somewhere.  Intensive use of Python features is
often not a good substitute.

| I prefer a language that allows me to use side effects and message 
| passing as default modes but let me switch to purely 
| functional/declarative features for subtasks that are simple enough to 
| be modeled that way.

Well, of course that's how Haskell is - it's just that they have higher
than average estimation of what can be modelled that way.

| (BTW, for the same reason I don't like static type systems. It's nice to 
| be able to prove some static properties of a program when it is 
| finished, but during development static type systems usually just stand 
| in the way.)

If there's one thing that makes Python a bad choice for me, that's it.
During development, static type systems save me a lot of trouble.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Wed Nov  6 14:00:32 2002
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:00:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Subclassing the min() build-in function?
References: <18eef4ae.0211060911.2c0a7731@posting.google.com> <aqblbq$dta$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <Mhdy9.2828$h%5.100861@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <aqbosg$e6g$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:

>Eddie Corns wrote:

>> The last example shows that you might want to check whether 'a' is a
>> sequence if that's ever likely to happen.  Using __builtins__.min is easier
>> than making a local copy of the standard min which could have been done by:


>never use __builtins__ -- it's an implementation detail.
>to make sure you get the right builtins, import __builtin__ (no plural s) and
>access the functions via that module.

Yes indeed, I got a bit mixed-up when reading the description.


From straton at lampsacos.demon.co.uk  Wed Nov 13 07:24:33 2002
From: straton at lampsacos.demon.co.uk (Ken Starks)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:24:33 +0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>
 <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net>
 <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
 <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
 <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk>

In article <m3u1imzcs6.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>, Martin v.
Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> writes
>Remember, the documentation format should suit documentation authors,
>not abstract principles, and not documentation readers (as they use
>the formatted versions).

So we need:
  1. LaTeX for authors
  2. XML for the machine
  3. Variety for the readers

To me this boils down to a two-way conversion system, with
a 'there-and-back' circular function that preserves all
content, and turns rapidly into a constant loop.

i.e. given the LaTeX version  A.tex:
   B.xml = pydocTeX2XML(A.tex)
   C.tex = pydocXML2TeX(B.xml)

     A.tex and C,tex would  be equivalent in content, and if:

   D.xml = pydocTeX2XML(C.tex)
   E.tex = pydocXML2TeX(D.xml)

then ...
     C.tex == E.tex
     and
     B.xml == D.xml   


If this works, then it doesn't matter a damn which of 
Latex and xml is the 'official' one.

   

   

-- 
Ken Starks


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Nov 27 04:31:50 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 03:31:50 -0600
Subject: Website development and python
In-Reply-To: <29e8aa77.0211260432.4743830c@posting.google.com>
References: <29e8aa77.0211260432.4743830c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1038389510.2044.162.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

See:
  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming

On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 06:32, o maj wrote:
> Hello,
> I work with a team who set up networks and databases for small
> companies. We have been repeatedly asked if we could also design their
> websites, but we dont have much knowledge or experience in that.
> 
> I know a bit of python, xml and html(designed my webpage few years ago
> in notepad, but I'm sure theres more to it than that for professional
> dev)
> Sorry i dont know much about programming in the web, the only prog'g i
> do is sql/xml database manipulation, and previously in uni I used C
> and later python for my mechanical engineering programming.
> 
> Without learning new languages like java and php, how do i get
> started?
> Surfing the web, i see all sorts of tools. But i dont know how they
> fit in, or whether i need them.
> 
> Could someone please give me a big picture of the various tools and
> methods i need, and where they fit in the puzzle and also where I can
> find more resources?
> Thanks
-- 
Ian Bicking           Colorstudy Web Development
ianb at colorstudy.com   http://www.colorstudy.com
PGP: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0x9B9E28B7
4869 N Talman Ave, Chicago, IL 60625 / (773) 275-7241




From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov  8 20:07:38 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:07:38 -0800
Subject: Questions about tuple?
In-Reply-To: <20021109002711.6291.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021109002711.6291.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200211090107.RAA00219@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Friday 08 November 2002 16:27, Mindy wrote:
> Hey, given a tuple t(a,b), is there any function in
> Python that I can get a, b individually from t?

if t is a tuple, then t[0] is the first element, t[1] is the second, etc.

you could also say:

   a,b = t

and a will equal the first element, and b the second (assuming t is a length 
2 tuple or list)

> Actually, I have a list whose element is tuples. Say:
>
> tuple_list = [(1,'a'),(3,'b'),(2,'l'),(8,'p')]

the old reliable way is:

first_list = []
second_list = []
for a,b in tuple_list:
    first_list.append( a )
    second_list.append( b )

Which you could make into a function if you need to do it often.

If you are using a recent python (say 2.1 or 2.2), you can possibly use list 
comprehensions, but I'll leave that for someone else to explain.

As a short note of style, calling it "tuple_list" is a bit misleading, 
because a tuple is not a list, and a list is not a tuple.  But they are both 
sequences, so I tend to use the label "seq" for such things if they are 
temporary, or the suffix "_seq" if I want to specify an object that is 
iterable.

You can always convert back and forth using the list() and tuple() 
constructors.

Hope this helps.

-- 

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From gumuz at looze.net  Tue Nov 19 05:05:51 2002
From: gumuz at looze.net (Gumuz)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:05:51 +0100
Subject: Pickle problem
References: <fafC9.11796$D02.511999@castor.casema.net> <3DD9A03A.3090108@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3dda0b39$0$235$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

no, unfortunately not, that would've been easy. this is due to the
copy/paste process :)


"Pierre Rouleau" <pieroul at attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3DD9A03A.3090108 at attglobal.net...
>
>
> Guyon Mor?e wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > i have a pickle problem, can;t figure it out :(
> >
> > i have a class called 'site'
> > site has a root 'folder' class
> > a folder class can contain 'pages' and other 'folder', ike a sort of
tree.
> >
> > now i have the open and save function done like this:
> >
> >
> > def Save(self, Filename):
> >         outFile = open(Filename,'w')
> >         pickle.dump(self,outFile)
> >         outFile.close()
> >
> >     def Open(self, Filename):
> >         inFile = open(Filename)
> >         self = pickle.load(inFile)
> >         inFile.close()
> >         print str(self.Root.Pages)
> >
> >
> > now i get the following error on the 'pickle.load' function:
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "E:\Development\Projects\Python\pyBlogg\pyBlogg.py", line 46, in
Open
> >     self = pickle.load(inFile)
> >   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 981, in load
> >     return Unpickler(file).load()
> >   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 596, in load
> >     dispatch[key](self)
> >   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 766, in load_inst
> >     klass = self.find_class(module, name)
> >   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 823, in find_class
> >     klass = getattr(mod, name)
> > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Site'
> >
> >
> > and yes, my module _does_ have a Site -class.
> >
> >
>
> Just a guess...
> The Open() function is nested inside Save().  Is it what you intended?
> If so, you may have a problem with the access to the Site class.
>
> --
>          Pierre Rouleau
>




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Nov  6 13:43:47 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:43:47 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
 <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net>
 <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <aqbe90$85d$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>
 <aqbimo$a36$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <eSXGjVAjLWy9Eweq@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <aqbimo$a36$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>, Frodo Morris 
.
.....
>> The problem that people keep forgetting is that Turing Equivilence
>> requires indefinite memory. Turing Machines are defined as having
>> infinite "tapes". Given any finite memory size, I can come up with
>> an interpreter the emulation of which would not fit in that finite
>> memory size.
>Perdantick bast.  :-)
>Imagine if parrot could understand all currently- and popularly- 
>implemented interpreted languages.
>
which language was it that got kicked to death by the others?
-- 
Robin Becker


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Nov  7 16:00:19 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 22:00:19 +0100
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list@python.org> <slrnasj332.v3h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <j465v93g42.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnasl7n2.d1h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <j4k7jpz0qf.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnaslf7t.33l.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <m3lm45t7rw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> writes:

> >> But that *won't work* on later versions of Python! 
> > 
> > How do you know? Later versions of Python have not been released!
> 
> Because PEP237 tells me so ;-)

No, it doesn't. It tells that this is the plan. It does not tell you
what the future will bring.

I recommend you ignore this part of the plan.

Regards,
Martin


From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 13 14:54:53 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:54:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Arrays?
References: <3dd2a4fc$0$28317$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnat5p1i.f3.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:15:28 -0000, e-tones.co.uk napisa?(a):
> So im  looking to creat a list? If so, how do I make it 2 dimensional?

>>> a=[[]]*2
>>> a
[[], []]
>>>

Is that what you wanted?

-- 
[ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ ]
[ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) underground.org.pl  ]


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Fri Nov  8 06:39:38 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:39:38 GMT
Subject: Python Browser Applets
References: <mailman.1036618569.11393.python-list@python.org> <P5qy9.22663$5u4.69909@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <8a6ba1da.0211080149.69190c08@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <_nNy9.28078$5u4.84947@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Richie Hindle:

> Do you know whether anyone has succeeded
> in doing this for Scintilla?  I'm working on a
> web-based Python debugger, and I'd love to
> allow remote editing of source code within the
> browser using Scintilla.  A quick Google didn't
> turn anything up.

   ActiveState use Scintilla wrapped by a Mozilla plugin in their Komodo
IDE. The plugin works on Win32 and Linux/X. It is not open source. I was one
of the developers and it was not as simple as I expected although some of
that may have been due to the immaturity of Mozilla.

   If you have a recent Java installed there is a technology demonstration
of a code editor component written in Java at
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/nhodgson/SwedeDemo.html
   There was a C# version of the code as well but that stopped working with
.NET service pack 1 which increased security.

   Neil




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 19 11:22:06 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 16:22:06 GMT
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <ar4rgh$nj2$1@panix3.panix.com> <ar5r65$uq6$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD85526.6020606@something.invalid> <ar9oqi$oil$0@216.39.172.122> <7h34radwzql.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <ardofe$cp0$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:47:57 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
>
>> IOW, IMO there ought to be a way to do a temporary global-side-effect-free
>> import and delete all traces of its having been done -- without restarting
>> the interpreter or invoking a second interpreter instance.
>
>I don't think this is so hard:
>
>def load_file(file, modname):
               ^^^^- tch, tch ;-)
>    import new
>    mod = new.module(modname)
>    exec open(file).read() in mod.__dict__
>    return mod
>

But as Jeff pointed out, if there are any imports in your imported file,
you have to encapsulate them too. So you need a temporary sandbox
import that captures all the import action into a private container/space.

IIRC I saw some docs on sandboxing import. That's probably the trail to follow.

>Then mod should only have the one reference:
>
>>>> import new
>>>> sys.getrefcount(new.module('temp'))
>1

>
>Also see the imp module; some of the hooks there don't insert in
>sys.modules (but I can't remember which ones now).
>
Thanks for the reminders. BTW, is there a reason you preferred

    exec open(file).read() in mod.__dict__
over
    execfile(filepath, mod.__dict__)
above?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov  7 17:53:18 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 22:53:18 GMT
Subject: Complex numbers, abs results in mag, what results in phase?
References: <071120021741272463%soufle@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <y9Cy9.3877$Bs5.116582@news1.tin.it>

noyb wrote:

> I realize the angle is atan(b,a) but I need to use my_complex_variable
> as input and not a,b.

import math
def phase(mcv):
    return math.atan2(mcv.imag, mcv.real)

I don't think there's any Python built-in that does this.


Alex



From grante at visi.com  Mon Nov 18 12:26:40 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 17:26:40 GMT
Subject: win32 WaitCommEvent error?
Message-ID: <3dd922d0$0$4438$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

I've got a program using Win32all that does a WaitCommEvent to
wait for receive data.  I can't find any documentation on
WaitCommEvent at ActiveState.  At MS, it takes three args, but
the Win32all verison only takes two.

The call to WaitCommEvent will work fine for hundreds of
iterations, but after a while I get an exception:

  Exception in thread Thread-2:
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "c:\Program files\Python22\lib\threading.py", line 408, in __bootstrap
      self.run()
    File "c:\Program files\Python22\lib\threading.py", line 396, in run
      apply(self.__target, self.__args, self.__kwargs)
    File "wpacket.py", line 80, in master
      rc, mask = WaitCommEvent(handle, rxOverlapped)
  api_error: (87, 'WaitCommError', 'The parameter is incorrect.')

The two parameters to WaitCommEvent() are the same every time
through the loop.  How can I find out which parameter is
incorrect (and what does "incorrect" mean)?  I've read the MSDN
docs on "WaitCommEvent" and they are (as usual) utterly
useless.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Sometime in 1993
                                  at               NANCY SINATRA will lead a
                               visi.com            BLOODLESS COUP on GUAM!!


From roberson at ibd.nrc.ca  Wed Nov  6 10:59:28 2002
From: roberson at ibd.nrc.ca (Walter Roberson)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 15:59:28 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqbe90$85d$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>

In article <aqa2oa$8o1$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>, Frodo Morris  <""> wrote:
:Imagine if parrot could understand all interpreted code.

I would have to think for a bit to come up with a proof, but
it seems fairly likely to me that that would be impossible.

At the very least, for it to be possible, you would have to
program indefinite-length pointers and allow all available disk
space to be used as extended memory.

The problem that people keep forgetting is that Turing Equivilence
requires indefinite memory. Turing Machines are defined as having
infinite "tapes". Given any finite memory size, I can come up with
an interpreter the emulation of which would not fit in that finite
memory size.
--
Would you buy a used bit from this man??


From ubecher at gmx.net  Thu Nov 14 13:55:57 2002
From: ubecher at gmx.net (Uwe Becher)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:55:57 +0100
Subject: Python 2.2 and PYTHONPATH
Message-ID: <3DD3F1BD.5060502@gmx.net>

Hi

I recently installed Python 2.2 (Activestate) on a Windows box and 
noticed an odd behavior: If the PYTHONPATH variable contains a windows 
UNC path, it does not appear in sys.path. A local path is shown in 
sys.path, even if it is defined together with an UNC path.

I cross checked it on NT4 and Win2000: same behavior. Under Python 2.1 
the UNC path appears in sys.path on both systems.

Does anyone know something about that case?

Thanks in advance

Uwe



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Nov 15 09:55:31 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 09:55:31 -0500
Subject: Reverse dictionnary
In-Reply-To: <oqu1ijc4uu.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>
References: <nkz4rajw3ln.fsf@pinel.shfj.cea.fr>
	<oqu1ijc4uu.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>
Message-ID: <oqn0oadgrg.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Fran?ois Pinard]

> [Julien Barbot]

> > Does "reverse dictionnary" exists in python ?  I would like to get a
> > value with the key, and to get the key with the value.

> [...] like this maybe:

>     def reverse(dictionary):
>         pair = zip(*dictionary.items())
>         return dict(zip(pair[1], pair[0]))

I withdraw the above, because, as indirectly suggested by others:

    dict(zip(dictionary.itervalues(), dictionary.iterkeys()))

is likely clearer and better.  Or if you want to spare the keyboard a bit:

    dict(zip(dictionary.itervalues(), dictionary))

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From donn at drizzle.com  Sun Nov 24 23:49:18 2002
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 04:49:18 -0000
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arrijv$kap$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <1038199757.350382@yasure>

Quoth Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de>:
| Donn Cave wrote:
|> Quoth Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de>:
|> ...
|>| Just recently I have encountered some useful terminological distinctions 
|>| in c.l.l that made sense to me. There you have the imperative and 
|>| message-passing paradigms on the one hand, and the procedural and 
|>| object-oriented style on the other hand. The interesting bit is that 
|>| these things are independent. So procedural style is well-suited for the 
|>| imperative paradigm and object-oriented is well-suited for the 
|>| message-passing paradigm. However, you can also do message-passing in a 
|>| purely procedural languages as well as use the imperative style in most 
|>| object-oriented languages. I guess that you are thinking along these 
|>| lines as well.
|> 
|> Perhaps I could be, if message passing were clearer to me!
|
| Message passing means that there are several entities that communicate 
| by sending messages between them. The main points are that these 
| entities are autonomous and that there is no central "main" program that 
| controls the behavior of these entitities.

But that's somewhat circular.  Message passing means that there are
entities that pass messages, eh?  But what would a message be, precisely?
What are the semantics of passing, for the sender and the recipient?
How is it different from calling a subroutine?  Is multi-threaded
execution necessary for this model?  If there is no main program,
where does the program begin?  Can Python programs be written this
way, and if so how would you tell the difference?

|> It can be much harder to get something done in pure FP, at least
|> that's true for me.  Now, this is obviously because I ``think in
|> Python'', or rather I think in procedural terms, and someone who
|> ``thinks in Haskell'' will have less trouble.
|
| I have my doubts. When a Haskell program doesn't behave as expected you 
| have to know what goes on behind the scenes - you have to know which 
| expressions get evaluated at what stage, in which order statements are 
| executed, and so on, in order to understand the program's behavior. 
| However, languages like Haskell deliberately try to hide these things. 

Yes, that's an extra thing in Haskell - compared not only to Python,
but also to ML and other functional languages.  So we aren't really
talking about imperative vs. declarative here, though I admit it was
my idea to hold up Haskell as a particularly good example.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From Maric.MICHAUD at cirec.com  Tue Nov 26 06:21:45 2002
From: Maric.MICHAUD at cirec.com (Maric MICHAUD)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:21:45 +0100
Subject: TR: Repost : error with stat
Message-ID: <27E327AB8201B54495D54105FBBBB1485D2071@SRVMSG.GERLAND2.local>

> I'm trying to get size of a big (2.1Go) file with a simple stat()
> call, but it seems to fail to put the result in a int.
> How do I do ?



From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  8 10:13:54 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:13:54 -0000
Subject: Semantic stumbles (was: A vision for Parrot)
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <mailman.1036617428.29604.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <usnl5i1a6ptqfc@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.1036617428.29604.python-list at python.org>,
Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> does the favor of listing
such key concepts as:
			.
			.
			.
>almost all characters in its functions, for instance.  Lots of languages
>have different namespaces for functions and variables.  Something like
>Smalltalk has an entirely different notion of method naming, even though
>its semantics are close to these other languages.  It seems small, but
>it's a pain.
>
>There's also issues with errors -- if you want a usable language, a
>traceback like Python's should be a bare minimum in this day.  But what
>does that look like with mixed languages?  What does that even look like
>with one language, ontop of a VM that's meant to be generic?  This is
>often dealt with very poorly as VM developers mostly test with trivial
>and correct programs.
>
>And of course there's a huge number of problems with objects.  Mutable
>vs. immutable strings being a good example -- it's not just a n x m
>problems, it's a straight-up no-good-solution problem.  There's no
>*right* way to deal with this.  Each language means something different
>by "string", and yet it's so important to each language that if you
>expect them to interoperate *at all* you need to deal with that.  Do you
>annotate functions and methods so that some automatic interoperation
>layer can be used?  Do you force users to use awkward constructions,
>exposing the fact that they're accessing another language?  Do you
>create wrappers?  Do you just punt, and assume some simplistic behavior
>will be good enough, even though it's not predictable to the programmer?
>
>C#/CLR I believe has resolved these issues by forcing the languages to
>adapt to a common set of semantics.  I just can't imagine a common set
			.
			.
			.
Nice collection.  I think it worth repeating.

For more on achieved experience with such attempts at
automatic translation, see the histories of CORBA,
SOAP, ...
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 13 12:18:37 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 17:18:37 GMT
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD1AB92.3030409@something.invalid> <pan.2002.11.13.03.03.13.245195.12688@metaslash.com>
Message-ID: <aqu1hd$tjk$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:03:18 -0500, Neal Norwitz <neal at metaslash.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:32:02 -0500, Greg Ewing wrote:
>
>> Bengt Richter wrote:
>> 
>>>  >>> def mkfoo():
>>>  ...     from math import pi
>>>  ...     def foo():
>>>  ...         return pi
>>>  ...     return foo
>>>  ...
>>> 
>>> What would be best Pythonic practice for getting a foo2? It seems like
>>> if there were a way to say "do this part once at compile time"
>> 
>> 
>> It's not really compile-time that we want to do it, but module load
>> time, or perhaps function definition time.
>> 
>> One way would be to use a default-argument hack:
>> 
>>     import math
>> 
>>     def foo(m = math):
>>        return m.pi
>> 
>> but this has all the usual drawbacks of the default-argument hack.
>> 
>> This suggests that perhaps there should be a way of getting something
>> that is just like a default argument, except that it's not part of the
>> argument list. Maybe
>> 
>>     def foo():
>>        const m = math
>>        return m.pi
>> 
>> The "const" statement would be evaluated when the "def" was executed,
>> and "m" would appear in the local namespace when the function was
>> called.
>> 
>> Although "const" might not be the best name for it, since it's not
>> really a constant, more like a local with an initial value.
> 
>You can *kinda* do this with 2.1 (at least) and up:
>
>	>>> import math
>	>>> def foo(): return foo.pi
>	... 
>	>>> foo.pi = math.pi
>	>>> foo()
>	3.1415926535897931
>
>I realize this isn't exactly what you are asking for,
>but it is a way that works today.
>
Thanks. It does answer part of the requirement. I.e., you can release the math
module with del math, but ... it's dependent on a persistent global name
binding to foo. I.e.,

 >>> bar = foo
 >>> del foo
 >>> bar()
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in foo
 NameError: global name 'foo' is not defined
 >>> dis.dis(bar)
           0 SET_LINENO               1

           3 SET_LINENO               1
           6 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (foo)
           9 LOAD_ATTR                1 (pi)
          12 RETURN_VALUE
          13 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
          16 RETURN_VALUE

plus the global lookup plus attribute lookup is not optimally fast.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From benalan at cs.bu.edu  Fri Nov  8 16:00:41 2002
From: benalan at cs.bu.edu (Ben Wiedermann)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 13:00:41 -0800
Subject: An evangelist's handbook? (Was: Re: Making a better textbook)
References: <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list@python.org> <usnipihg3okna2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <d6dae77c.0211081300.c94f95a@posting.google.com>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<usnipihg3okna2 at corp.supernews.com>...
> In article <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list at python.org>,
> Dave Brueck  <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> >On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Dave Reed wrote:
> >
> >> I've been using Python for my own projects (from short scripts to
> >> 25,000 line apps) for almost three years now and can't imagine using
> >> anything else right for anything that wasn't extremely computationally
> >> expensive. After attending the panel, I talked my other colleagues
> >> into using it for our CS 1 course this fall. The only thing that
> >> bothers me about Python for teaching is the lack of enforced private
> >> members for classes. As an experienced programmer, I can live with
> >> that because I know better, but I don't know whether the students will
> >> believe me when I tell them it's a bad idea to directly access them
> >> outside of classes :-)
> >
> >Who cares if they believe you though, and why should they anyway? Part of
> >becoming a good programmer is getting bit by taking shortcuts (over doing
> >it the "right" way), learning from it, and moving on - and it's a great
> >thing to learn through experience that the prof might actually know what 
> >he's talking about! :)
> >
> >> I also suspect this issue may prevent other universities from seriously
> >> considering Python for introductory courses.
> >
> >Yeah, but in reality it shouldn't. Up-and-coming programmers routinely
> >ignore what we consider to be even the most basic best practices. I mean,
> >what first year (or any year, for that matter!) languages force people to
> >use good variable names, limit their use of global variables, avoid magic
> >numbers, and stay away from creating 1000-line functions?
> >
> >Anyway, it was exciting for me to read your observations so far from using
> >Python at the university level, especially the idea that more
> >problem-solving time is being spent in "algorithm space" than "syntax
> >space" (which shouldn't surprise me since that's the experience Python
> >users tend to have). I'd love to hear more of what you learn as time goes
> >on - please keep posting!
> >
> >-Dave
> >
> >
> 
> There's a real range in university courses.  Indeed,
> a depressing number of them are still stuck at syntax
> level.
> 
> Dave Reed, are you serious that decision-makers dis-
> qualify Python for the lack of enforced private 
> members?  Should I take it that they equally proscribe
> (conventionally pre-processed) C and C++?
> 
> That sounds more hostile than I mean to be.  Alex,
> maybe you can help me articulate this.  Just as it's
> taken a while for the discipline to catch on that 
> static type checking (as in C and Java) is an impo-
> verished proxy for real validation, I have hopes
> that we can eventually raise programmers' vision of
> what constitutes good support for teamwork and re-use
> from its present regard on misapplied encapsulation.


In my experience, the "encapsulation" problem is a significant hurdle.
And it seems to me that folks who came to object-oriented programming
from procedural programming seem to have a harder time overcoming the
hurdle than those who have known only object-oriented programming.
Strange.

So, let's help folks get over this problem. If we could come up with
some sound bites to offer potential converts, I think it would be of
good use. Alex was extrememly helpful in this regard, offering up
tomes of information, as I recall. I will try to dig them out, if I
have them, but I think we all would much rather hear it from the
source (hint, hint). I have heard Guido say one of the reasons for
default public access is that it was easier to implement. I think this
argument is valid (probably more so than its simplicity might suggest)
to a language designer, but it is not necessarily valid to a language
adopter.

Any other thoughts? For that matter, we could tackle any other issues
(e.g., typing) that decision-makers might have problems with. I am
soliciting evangelists, here, not debaters! There are enough of those
threads....


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Nov 28 00:08:18 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 00:08:18 -0500
Subject: copy.deepcopy question
References: <3DD0BFED.B59F49D9@ipm.fhg.de>
Message-ID: <as48c2$b2r$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3DD0BFED.B59F49D9 at ipm.fhg.de>,
Markus von Ehr  <markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de> wrote:
>
>I have one object called Reference.
>Several Spectra objects include their own Reference object.
>To assign the Reference I want to pass the Reference object to
>several Spectra objects which have to make a copy to a member variable.
>Every Spectra need its own copy because different Spectras may have
>different References.
>
>Is copy.deepcopy the right way to copy the Reference object to
>a Spectras member variable?

Depends.  Just how independent should each Spectra's Reference be?  For
example, if a Reference contains a binding to a class instance, should
that instance object be shared among multiple References?  You might be
better off making Reference(<Reference instance>) a copy creator of some
kind.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra


From qual at epost.de  Sat Nov 23 15:28:26 2002
From: qual at epost.de (Uwe Hoffmann)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 21:28:26 +0100
Subject: DCOracle2 performance tuning
In-Reply-To: <%uQD9.122449$1O2.8846@sccrnsc04>
References: <%uQD9.122449$1O2.8846@sccrnsc04>
Message-ID: <aronuq$i6v$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Stacy White wrote:

> I work with a large body of Perl code, and am toying around with the
> possibility of converting to Python.  One thing standing in my way is my
> inability to make DCOracle2 perform comparably to Perl's DBD::Oracle.
>
> DCOracle2 performance is good relative to DBD::Oracle until it's faced 
> with
> large result sets.  For instance, time for:
>
>   c = db.cursor()

try to set the arraysize of the cursor
c.arraysize=200
maybe you see an improvement

greetings
	uwe



From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov 11 02:32:09 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:32:09 +1100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <aqnjqb$38c$2@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org> <aqnjqb$38c$2@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <200211111832.09609.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:47, Ng Pheng Siong wrote:
> According to Brad Hards  <bhards at bigpond.net.au>:
> > 2. Availability of useful tools, especially libraries (affects design
> > choices based on programmer productivity). Also includes development
> > environments.
> >
> > I am not familiar with Lisp, but I perceive that it has problems with
> > 2,3,4 and 5.
>
> For 2, do you have "freely available" as the underlying assumption?
I guess I do. I hadn't thought about it in much detail, but "Available" in my 
original statement means "Freely available if not already on hand".  For most 
programmers, that means that the tools (including libraries) are either 
included, or freely available over the internet.

<snip>
> I don't keep stats, but I believe every now and then some old Python hand
> has been overheard saying that c.l.py isn't as nice/interesting as before.
/me is only a newbie, and I can't really say. However things "in the good old 
days" may be being remembered through rose coloured glasses :)

Brad
- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From mary-python at puzzling.org  Fri Nov 15 05:32:43 2002
From: mary-python at puzzling.org (Mary Gardiner)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:32:43 +1100
Subject: Sydney Australia: Python Interest Group: Monday 18th November
Message-ID: <20021115103243.GB745@titus.spanky>

For our last act in 2002[1], the Sydney Python Interest Group presents:

Andrew Bennetts: "Fun New Stuff in Python 2.2"

"""
Fun new stuff in Python 2.2

An introduction to new language features, including:
  - Iterators
  - Generators
  - Properties, classmethods and staticmethods
  - Type/class unification
  - __new__
  - Metaclasses

This is likely to be a bit of a whirlwind tour of those features, seeing
as we don't have all day. :)
"""

 Date: Monday November 18

 Time: 7:00pm

 Location: University of Technology Sydney, Australia: Broadway campus,
 building 10, room 2.440 (computer lab, on the entrance level). 

-Mary

[1] There will be no PIG meeting in December.

----

See our webpage: http://pig.slug.org.au/ for more details on the Sydney
PIG.

----

SLUG Python Interest Group meetings are announced on:

 * comp.lang.python.announce and python-announce-list at python.org[0]

 * the Australasian Python users list[1]

 * The Sydney Linux User's Group announce list[2]

[0] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list
[1] http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-au
[2] http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/announce/

----

The Sydney Python Interest Group is, while not restricted to Python on   
Linux, a Special Interest Group of the Sydney Linux Users Group (SLUG),
and would like to thank SLUG for its support.



From support at internetdiscovery.com  Fri Nov 15 16:17:02 2002
From: support at internetdiscovery.com (Mike Clarkson)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:17:02 GMT
Subject: Tkinter wart: bug or feature?
Message-ID: <3dd563db.9499247@nntp.ix.netcom.com>

This started out as a bug report by Peter Deutsch about disappearing
bitmap images:

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=105470&aid=632323&group_id=5470

which I seconded because of a bug I had found in
Demo/tix/tixwidgets.py where the author had written in a procedure:

    image1 = Tkinter.Image('photo', file=file)
    lbl = Tkinter.Label(win.window, image=image1)
    lbl.pack(expand=1, fill=Tix.BOTH)

The image will not show up if the variable image1 is not
declared global. I couldn't figure out why the global was
necessary and put a comment in the code over a year ago.
What seemed to me to be the equivalent code worked:

    image1 = win.tk.eval('image create photo -file %s'  % file)
    lbl = Tkinter.Label(win.window, image=image1)
    lbl.pack(expand=1, fill=Tix.BOTH)

Martin Loewis explained that:

>When the BitmapImage object is no longer referenced, it is
>finalized; finalization causes "image delete" to be invoked.

>Tcl does not keep a reference to the image object; if you
>don't yourself, nobody does. In turn, the image object goes
>away right after being created.

And sure enough, the Tkinter.Image class has a __del__ method
that does an image delete on the image, so when the procedure
finishes it deletes the image image1 even though Label wants to make
use of it. Guido decided to close this as Not A Bug, even though the
originator of the bug report strongly disgreed, so I wanted to put it
out to c..l.p to get feedback.

It looks like a Bug to me for 3 reasons.

1) My understanding of Python was that when warts are really ugly
they get classed as a bug. This is really ugly because when I do

    text1 = "My Label"
    lbl = Tkinter.Label(win.window, text=text1)

I don't have to make text1 global for it to work. As Peter said:
 No other commonly used entity in the Tkinter API has this
 counter-intuitive behavior. Widgets do not disappear from
 the screen if Python holds no references to them. Text
 strings do not disappear from the screen if Python holds no
 references to the string object or the font object. 

2) Tkinter is a wrapper to Tk  and Tk does not delete unreferenced
images, so nor should Tkinter. Unreferenced images are not garbage
in Tk because they can always be referenced again using image_names().
Images have to be explicitly deleted and so should it be in Tkinter.

3) As Peter pointed out:
 Python does not, and cannot, guarantee that an object
 will be finalized and freed immediately when there are no
 longer any references to it: if the object must be reclaimed
 by garbage collection, an unpredictable amount of time may
 elapse. Therefore, in my opinion, it is very undesirable to
 use object finalization in a way that directly affects the
 user interface.

Martin claims that "anybody looking at the Image class code
could not fail to notice the image delete"  but this is obviously not
true, as the bug had been sitting for years in the tixwidgets.py code
until I tracked it down, and that was written by people who presumably
knew Tkinter well, as they have written Tix.py, the largest Tkinter
wrapper I know of outside of Tkinter itself. 

Comments? Is this a bug or a feature?

Mike




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov 15 12:48:56 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:48:56 -0600
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211151030200.643-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
References: <ar387a$hmb$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
        <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211151030200.643-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
Message-ID: <15829.13192.762569.321084@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Dave> I wouldn't mind having a dictionary comp but don't need it nearly
    Dave> as much, ...

And you can always fudge it with a dictionary and a list comprehension:

    d = {}
    [d.update({...}) for ...]

or

    d = dict([(k,v) for ...])

Skip



From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Wed Nov 27 20:03:11 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:03:11 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <20021128000233.S11257@prim.han.de>
References: <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <7h3u1i5sxx2.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <20021128000233.S11257@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <200211280103.RAA31535@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Wednesday 27 November 2002 15:02, holger krekel wrote:
> Michael Hudson wrote:
> > For what it's worth (not much) I'm forever writing
> >
> > for k, v in d:
> >     ....
> >
> > I can see the arguments for consistency, but I think this is my most
> > reliable Python error at the moment.
>
> TypeError: unpack non-sequence
>
> is also my number one "basic" error i am producing.

The way it works just seems natural to me:

Python 2.2.2 (#1, Nov 21 2002, 08:18:14)
>>> d = [ (1,2), (3,4) ]
>>> for x,y in d:
...  print "x,y: ", x, y
...
x,y:  1 2
x,y:  3 4

Given that we can do:

x,y = (1,2)  # Or x,y = 1,2

but not

x,y = (1,2,3)

it all seems consistent and aboveboard (and would be strange and awkward if 
things didn't work this way).

I suppose one gotcha is that I might have expected the following to work:

e = [1,2]
for x,y in e:
    print x,y

just because e is length two (but that would be a fragile case to rely upon).

I suggest creating your own 'unflatten' function, and just learn to start 
using it.  Anyone with a quick and dirty implementation?

ie.

a = [1,2,3,4,5,6]
unflatten(a, 2) # should return [(1,2), (3,4), (5,6)]
unflatten(a, 3) # should return [(1,2,3), (4,5,6)]


I imagine it is trivial with list comprehensions, but I haven't really 
bothered to learn them yet (and I'm leaving for the holidays in about 20 
seconds :)

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From john.abel at pa.press.net  Thu Nov  7 07:49:15 2002
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:49:15 +0000
Subject: Python In A Nutshell?
References: <mailman.1036666098.19256.python-list@python.org> <BZry9.969$Bs5.18961@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DCA614B.5010503@pa.press.net>

Hi!

Thanks for that!  What a great community this is.  There can't be many, 
where the author of a book will reply to a post!!!

Thanks again

John


Alex Martelli wrote:

>John Abel wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hi!
>>
>>Has anyone any information regarding the availability of this book?
>>    
>>
>
>Nobody has any certainties yet, sigh (as the author, I should know).
>
>  
>
>> According to Amazon UK, it should have been available from 1st
>>November, yet I can't find any mention of it on the O'Reilly site.
>>    
>>
>
>I delivered the final draft to the editor within my deadline for
>Nov 1 publication, but, alas, the Python Nutshell book then ended
>up in the queue behind the PHP Cookbook and got pushed back by it --
>so, nothing much has happened over the last 2 months or so.  The
>PHP Cookbook, I believe, is now done and over with, and the Nutshell
>should be next in queue for final editing, checking and processing.
>
>But this means I can't yet give you a reliable prediction for the
>date the book will be on the shelves -- it's basically all in
>O'Reilly's hands now, even though I'll still have some minor checks
>etc to do as they do their part of the job.
>
>Thanks for your patience...!-(
>
>
>Alex
>
>  
>

-- 
*John Abel
Systems Administrator *
PA News Limited
www.pa.press.net <http://www.pa.press.net>
E-Mail address: john.abel at pa.press.net <mailto:john.abel at pa.press.net>
Telephone Number : 01430 455553
Fax Number : 0870 1240192
Mobile Number : 07971 611356
The Bishop's Manor, Market Place, Howden, DN14 7BL
PA News Limited, 292 Vauxhall Bridge Road, London SW1V 1AE. Registered 
in England No. 3891053.




From camhorn at mac.com  Wed Nov 13 17:11:59 2002
From: camhorn at mac.com (Cameron Horn)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:11:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
Message-ID: <8087437.1037225519862.JavaMail.camhorn@mac.com>

 
On Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002, at 01:55PM, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>In article <3DD2C505.96B41A1C at hotmail.com>,
> Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Cameron Horn wrote:
>> 
>> > If I want to write an empty generator, I write this(?):
>> > def foo():
>> >   return
>> >   yield "never"
>> 
>> What is the semantic of "an empty generator", i.e. what does it mean? A
>> generator that never generates any values?
>
>What I wonder is, why does it need to be a generator?  What's wrong with
>def foo(): return ( )
>?

You're right if it's a one-time thing.  However, if I've got a scaffolding like this, then it matters.

def process_generator(function):
   for x in function():
      print x





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Nov 18 05:10:29 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:10:29 GMT
Subject: Tkinter wart: bug or feature?
References: <3dd563db.9499247@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <eppstein-0E7234.13363215112002@news.service.uci.edu> <mailman.1037407464.4609.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-F9EDCF.20084015112002@news.service.uci.edu> <s1tB9.4925$1r1.171057@newsc.telia.net> <3dd7f032.1870592@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <p03C9.5195$1r1.184017@newsc.telia.net>

Mike Clarkson wrote:

> This is still a bug workaround, just like using global. You're still
> expecting the end user to do ugly bookkeeping, but only for images:
> I don't have to hold a reference to text1 global for it to work.

if you do understand the problem, come up with a solution that works in
all cases, is possible to maintain without too much work, and doesn't break
existing code (including code that extends Tk/Tkinter, and images that are
not represented by classes in the Tkinter module), and post the patch to
sourceforge.

if not, you have to live with the fact that people who know more than you
thinks that this "evil wart" belongs to the "you'll only make this mistake once,
and only if you don't read the documentation" category, and that there are
more important things to work on.

> there are obvious fixes as I pointed out

given that your "obvious fixes" would break existing programs, it's pretty
clear that you don't understand the problem very well.

</F>




From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Nov 20 14:56:16 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:56:16 -0800
Subject: gc (was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?)
In-Reply-To: <3DDBE4C7.6060308@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <00b201c290ce$e32969c0$21795418@dell1700>

Kenny Tilton wrote:
> > true garbage collection (I am /not/ looking forward to reference
> > counting or the hoops one has to jump thru to handle cyclic refs)
> 
> Someone was kind enough to email me that the above is mistaken. I just
> revisited the page where I got that info, turns out it was 2000. My
> correspondent did not specify, but is this provided by the optional GC
> module, or is it now just part of core Python?

It is part of core Python. It used to be a build-time configure switch
(defaulted to on) but I don't know if that is still the case.

Cheers,
Brian 




From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 27 22:01:55 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:01:55 +1300
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org> <3DE4102D.7D4291F4@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3DE58723.5040306@something.invalid>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> 
> I think the severity of the =/== confusion problem in C has been
> severely overrepresented in this thread.  In my opinon, in the real
> world, among competent software eengineers, it is a tiny issue.


I think it's too simplistic to regard the =/== confusion problem
as the only reason to be wary of assignments in expressions.
It also hurts readability to have expressions with assignments
buried in them.

This is a special case of the general principle that it's
usually clearer if expressions don't have side effects.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From mstenner at phy.duke.edu  Mon Nov 11 12:40:55 2002
From: mstenner at phy.duke.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:40:55 -0500
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
In-Reply-To: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>; from a_human_work@hotmail.com on Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 07:20:20AM -0800
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021111124055.A4000@phy.duke.edu>

On Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 07:20:20AM -0800, Pittaya wrote:
> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
> a single line of code.
> 
> perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
> 
> can python do something like this?

Not well, no.  If you or your friend find yourselves needing to do
this kind of thing often, then perl is probably a better choice for
those tasks.  I use both perl and python.  I like them both.  For this
sort of thing perl is better suited, and I think few would argue with
that.

The point others are trying to make (somewhat defensively, perhaps) is
that the same syntax choices that make this easier in perl often leads
to clearer python programs with the same amount of programmer effort.
Personally, I find that more appealing when writing programs of any
significant size.

Nonetheless, I DO use perl when I want to quickly whip off stuff like
this from the command line.  If this is a battle in some silly
language war, then give your friend the victory.  It's a small one.

					-Michael
-- 
  Michael Stenner                       Office Phone: 919-660-2513
  Duke University, Dept. of Physics       mstenner at phy.duke.edu
  Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305



From theller at python.net  Wed Nov 20 05:25:49 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 11:25:49 +0100
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <m3r8dg8wgp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <d6p035ci.fsf@python.net>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) writes:

> Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:
> 
> > void call_back_into_python(void)
> > {
> >     PyThreadState *pts;
> >     PyEval_AcquireLock();
> >     pts = PyThreadState_New(g_interp);
> >     if (!pts)
> >         Py_FatalErorr(...);
> >     if (NULL != PyThreadState_Swap(pts)
> >         Py_FatalError(...);
> >     /* now call Python functions */
> >     pts = PyThreadState_Swap(NULL);
> >     if (!pts)
> >         Py_FatalError(...);
> >     PyThreadState_Clear(pts);
> >     PyThreadState_Delete(pts);
> >     PyEval_ReleaseLock();
> > }
> 
> I suggest a simpler strategy:
> 
>    pts = PyThreadState_New(g_interp);
>    if (!pts)
>        Py_FatalErorr(...);
>    PyEval_AcquireThread(pts);
>    /* call Python functions */
>    PyEval_ReleaseThread(pts);
>    PyThreadState_Clear(pts);
>    PyThreadState_Delete(pts);
> 

What's the difference? Only less code?

The docs say that PyEval_AcquireThread() is not available when thread
support is disabled at compile time - but this is probably no problem
on the platforms expected.

Thanks,

Thomas


From andreas.ames at tenovis.com  Wed Nov 20 06:50:07 2002
From: andreas.ames at tenovis.com (Andreas Ames)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 12:50:07 +0100
Subject: Howto wait for multiple queues (Queue.py)?
Message-ID: <87bs4kxxxs.fsf@sinon.fr.de.tenovis.com>

Hi,

as I prefer to use queues for interthread communication, I need
something like a 'mainloop' for my threads in the sense that every
thread can have multiple input queues and I want to be able to block
the consumer thread until input within one (or more) queues is
available.  This mechanism should be somewhat comparable to 'select()'
or 'MsgWaitForMultipleObjects()' (on w32).

I've googled a bit but couldn't find a solution.  The only things I
can come up with are the following:

1) Polling:

   Iterating over all relevant queues and issue a nonblocking 'get' on
   each one; possibly yielding after each iteration to be a bit more
   polite.

   Pro:

        - straightforward

   Con:

        - performance penalty (wasting cpu time)

        - imposes implicitely a priority on the queues;  could even
          lead to the point where only the inputs of a single queue
          (say the first one in the loop) are handled while all others
          are ignored (if this single queue is *very* busy).  To avoid
          this I'd need to have some 'scheduling'/prioritization for
          the relevant queues.  This could easily get massive
          (depending on the number of queues).

         - very ugly ;-B

   Conclusion:  This is lousy.

2) Synchronization (take I):

   I associate some sort of a synchronization item with a Queue
   derived class.  Every 'put' increases a counter and every 'get'
   decreases it.  If the counter gets 0 by a 'get' the synchronization
   item gets unsignaled, if the counter is 1 after a 'put' it gets
   signaled.  Several queues can share the same synch item.  The
   consumer blocks on the unsignaled synch item and awakes when it
   gets signaled.  The simplest synch item I can come up with for this
   is a Semaphore.  Every (successful) DerivedQueue.put does a
   Semaphore.release and every (successful) DerivedQueue.get does a
   Semaphore.acquire.  The consumer does a Semaphore.acquire and has
   to issue a Semaphore.release immediately afterwards (to always have
   the semaphore counter reflect the correct number of items within
   all related queues and to avoid a deadlock on the next
   DerivedQueue.get anyway ;-)

   Pro:

        - consumer doesn't waste cpu cycles

   Con:

        - performance hit on 'get' and 'put'

        - consumer still has to test all related queues to find out
          which one signaled the synch item (some 'scheduling'
          algorithm needed as with polling)

        - when the consumer awakens from a synch item wait, there is
          no guarantee that it actually gets something from one of the
          queues due to multithreading (this might be acceptable for
          me)

        - two threads can share no queues at all or only the very same
          set of queues unless I let DerivedQueue accept several synch
          items (which makes another lock necessary within the
          DerivedQueue to maintain the list of synch items)

        - quite ugly

   Conclusion:  anything but optimal

3) Synchronization (take II):

   I implement a QueueContainer which accepts derived Queues
   (similarly as above).  The 'get' and 'put' methods call back the
   container.  The consumer uses a QueueContainer.get to get items out
   of own of its queues.  The DerivedQueue is able to call back
   different containers.  Furthermore DerivedQueue must expose an
   external lock so that 'qsize' can be used reliably when a new
   container is attached.  The problem which queue has issued a signal
   can be solved by maintaning a stack within the container.
   DerivedQueue.put corresponds to Stack.push, DerivedQueue.pop
   corresponds to Stack.pop.  Thus all events are handled in the order
   they were delivered to the input queues.

   Pro:

	- solves most of the problems from above

	- simple interface for consumers

   Con:

	- performance hit

	- what is the semantics of the QueueContainer.get when several
	  threads are blocking on it?

	- deadlocks lurking everywhere

	- not all too nice either

   Conclusion:  somewhat full featured but also somewhat bloated :-B

I would very much appreciate any suggestions for a better
(performancewise, more 'pythonic', whatsoever) implementation or have
I even overseen an already exisitng solution to my problem?


TIA,

andreas



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 15 08:08:26 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:08:26 GMT
Subject: Accessing Dictionary values from within the Dictionary
References: <h10B9.797$v14.274678940@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <el6B9.11957$744.431677@news1.tin.it>

Kuros wrote:

> Hi again,
> 
> I have created a dictionary, like so:
> 
> dict = {var1 : 0, var 2: 0}
> 
> Now, i want the third key/value pair to equal the total values of var1 and
> var2. I tried to do it this way:
> 
> dict = {var1 : 1, var 2 : 2, var3 : dict[var1] + dict[var2]}
> 
> But I get an invalid syntax error.
> 
> Could someone help me out with this?

The main help I can give you: copy and paste the example you say
is failing -- make it as tiny as possible as long as it still fails.
When you try to teport an error WITHOUT copy and paste, it's just
too likely that what you end up saying is just false, thus wasting
the time of anybody who's trying to help.

E.g, in this case:

>>> dict = {var1 : 0, var 2: 0}
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    dict = {var1 : 0, var 2: 0}
                          ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>

So you CANNOT possibly, as you claim, have created a dictionary
as you say -- that weird extra space in 'var 2' makes your
assertion impossible.


Another piece of advice: don't name your variables dict, list,
tuple, file, int, str, and by other built-in type names used by
Python.  It's not illegal, but it makes for a LOT of confusion
and needless bugs.  Call them adict, somelist, mytuple, thefile,
etc, if it's just TOO hard to think of a useful name...


Alex



From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 19 07:02:38 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:02:38 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <yu99isyujyrc.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <wgeC9.17350$0U1.1713575@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <7h3vg2tvkho.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Richard Dillingham" <shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com> writes:

> > Instead, (a, b) >= (c, d) is defined as (a>c or (a==c and b>=d)).
> 
> I just keep reading that again and again and thinking "WTF? Why? Wha...."

Dictionary order.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  M-x psych[TAB][RETURN]
                                                             -- try it


From gotcha at swing.be  Sat Nov 30 12:57:32 2002
From: gotcha at swing.be (Godefroid Chapelle)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:57:32 +0100
Subject: Is there a bright future for open software projects?
In-Reply-To: <3DE783EF.16478.4666187@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021130185705.00ab67d0@pop.swing.be>

At 15:12 29/11/2002, A wrote:
>Hi all,
>For  some time I am thinking about what firms or  programmers  can afford 
>to develop
>open/free software. I myself have been using free programming languages ( 
>Perl and now
>Python) for about 4 years.But it seems to me very difficult to develop 
>free software because
>either I can program only when I have free time and then the development 
>is going very
>slowly or someone must pay for the software anyway because  programmers 
>must also
>earn money to   live  and then why and who should pay for free software?
>And my question:
>Is it possible to develop open(FREE) software that is  better or at least 
>of same quality like
>paid software?
>What companies like ActiveState.com or similar live on if they offer free 
>software?
>Best regards and thanks to all who still develop FREE software.
>Ladislav
Take a look for example at www.zope.com, they offer services/applications 
based on the free/open source software they produce. A lot of companies do 
the same with Zope in Europe.

Jabber.com has the same type of approach.


--

Godefroid Chapelle

BubbleNet sprl
rue Victor Horta, 18 / 202
1348 Louvain-la-Neuve
Belgium

Tel + 32 (10) 459901
Mob + 32 (477) 363942

TVA 467 093 008
RC Niv 49849




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 28 13:56:48 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:56:48 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyfy97ew0o7.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <3DE666F0.32F64BA6@alcyone.com>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:

> Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> writes:
>
> > What I'm going off of here is my memory of having to count and
> > re-count
> > parentheses as I was writing to make sure that I was putting in the
> > right number of closing parens to finish a structure.
> 
> To me, this sounds very much like "... my memory of having to count
> and recount all the spaces, when programming in Python, to make sure
> that my blocks lined up."

Indeed, I think it's highly ironic that people are complaining about
parenthesis-counting when it comes to Python, because "I don't want to
be keeping track of whitespace indentation" is one of the key
anti-Python sentiments (from people who have never used it).  The fact
that we're not complaining about this in Python now, of course, is
because it's a non-issue -- you _don't_ have to do such things, your
editor does it for you.  For Lisp programming, it's exactly the same
thing.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Some mistakes we must carry with us.
\__/ Speaker-to-Animals
    Blackgirl International / http://www.blackgirl.org/
 The Internet resource for black women.


From karl at elemtech.com  Mon Nov 18 12:22:40 2002
From: karl at elemtech.com (Karl G. Merkley)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:22:40 -0700
Subject: Debugging python with C++ extensions
Message-ID: <3DD921E0.2000605@elemtech.com>

I am looking using python as a framework for some C++ components.
However, I am concerned about debugging across the python/C++ interface.
How do people currently debug python with C++ extensions.  Every C++
component will have it's own unit test; however, it seems inevitable that
there will be times when it would be helpful to step from the python
code into the C++ component.

Comments?

   Thanks,
      Karl



From rmunn at pobox.com  Fri Nov  8 04:16:59 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:16:59 GMT
Subject: OT: Abbreviations (was Re: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book))
References: <slrnasl1dr.3cj.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <20021107192332.29263.00003648@mb-mg.aol.com> <mailman.1036716611.12500.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasn0gf.dt7.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 at 00:49 GMT, Chris Gonnerman
<chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "ACalcium" <acalcium at aol.com>
> 
> 
>> >> Why can u teach this in CS2 when they learn
>> >
>> >The word is "you", not "u".
>> >
>> >You may not know this yet, but the rest of the Internet is *nothing*
>> >like AOL. We prefer complete English words here, and "cute"
>> 
>> [much deleted]
>> Just concentrate and follow the thread, Rob.
> 
> I have to say, I'm with Rob.  How much work would two letters
> cost you?

Especially when the two letters we're talking about are the two letters
on the end of my *name*. My name is Robin, not Rob. Which brings me to a
second point of Internet etiquette: don't trim attributions unless you
are also trimming *all* quoted text written by that person. Trimming
attributions had two effects in this case: first, it makes this thread
look like ACalcium is responding to him/herself (and who's this Rob?).
Second, it resulted in Chris also using my name incorrectly, since there
was no more "Robin Munn wrote:" to point out what my name *really* is.

Finally, did you ever think about the fact that Rob is a man's name
exclusively, while Robin can be a man's name or a woman's name? No, you
didn't think about that. You lucked out this time -- I am a man, so you
didn't accidentally call me by a wrong-gender name. But be *careful*
about that next time! Calling someone by a name that isn't theirs and
isn't even the same gender as theirs is even more impolite than your
first offense.

O.K., end of netiquette flame. Nothing to see here folks, move along,
preferably to a thread that's actually ON-topic...

P.S. Chris, no need to apologize: you had no way of knowing that Rob
isn't actually my name.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 19 07:43:06 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:43:06 +0000
Subject: COM interfaces and inheritance
References: <Xns92CB6026FC70Brobjohnrichardcouk@192.168.0.246>
Message-ID: <3DDA31DA.D230CCB8@hotmail.com>

Rob Sykes wrote:

> I'm having a problem with a (3rd party) IDispatch interface

> I'm struggling with the upcasting(?) - in Delphi there is
> newBar := CreateFoo() as bar
> 
> What is the Python equivalent ?

There is no casting in python. All resolution of attribute and method
names takes place at execution time. Consider the following function

def func(obj):
    print "About to call obj.meth()"
    obj.meth()
    print "Have called obj.meth()"

You can pass any class of object to this function, and the call will
succeed iff the object has a method called "meth". It doesn't matter
what class the object is, no casting is necessary. Consider these

class O:
    def meth(self):
        print "In class O"

class P: # Unrelated to class O
    def meth(self):
        print "In class P"

class Q: # Unrelated to O or P
    def nometh(self):
        print "In class Q"

>>> o = O()
>>> func(o)
About to call obj.meth()
In class O
Have called obj.meth()
>>> p = P()
>>> func(p)
About to call obj.meth()
In class P
Have called obj.meth()
>>> q = Q()
>>> func(q)
About to call obj.meth()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in func
AttributeError: Q instance has no attribute 'meth'

I will post separately on your COM objects problem.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From hupp at upl.cs.wisc.edu  Mon Nov 25 05:34:54 2002
From: hupp at upl.cs.wisc.edu (Adam Hupp)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:34:54 GMT
Subject: screen off?
References: <utu5bo8fsqr1d2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.25.10.34.54.843480@upl.cs.wisc.edu>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:49:06 +0000, Lance wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> Some of my programs generate considerable screen output. I would like to
> turn off the screen output to save time while developing. Is there a way to
> do this, and turn it back on again?

You can do this by assigning a new file-like object to sys.stdout, i.e.

sys.stdout = open("/dev/null", "w")

Or even better something of your own design that filters calls to write().

The original stdout is stored in sys.__stdout__ (didn't this used to be
_stdout?)  if you would like to restore it.

-Adam


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Mon Nov 25 16:00:02 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:00:02 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arjns3$rcs$0@216.39.172.122> <3DDD6D7A.3010308@nyc.rr.com> <slrnau4uuc.plc.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3DE28FB9.8070605@nyc.rr.com>


Robin Munn wrote:
> Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>>What is it about Pythonthink that is different from Otherlangthink?
>>
> I found myself writing for loops that weren't necessary, e.g.:
> 
>     # Thinking in C, translating into Python
>     new_list = []
>     for item in old_list:
>         if (item % 2):   # Keep only the odd numbers
>             new_list.append(item)
> 
>     # Thinking in Python
>     new_list = filter(lambda x: x%2, old_list)

Good example, and I went thru the same with CL. I do not usually read 
language references just to read them, but eventually I broke down and 
looked at the lonnnnng list of functions to see if I was missing stuff. 
I definitely reinvented the wheel many times with CL, hopefully that 
will not happen so much with Python cuz Norvig raves about Python so 
I'll be /expecting/ to find CLisms in Python.

meanwhile, i feel like such an ass, even tho the hack i am translating 
intervenes at the level of attr access and I have been pouring over the 
doc on __getattr__ and __setattr__, damn!, I never picked up that 
getattr and setattr were the implementing backdoors! hours wasted!! :)

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From grante at visi.com  Thu Nov 28 12:10:13 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 17:10:13 GMT
Subject: Python Virtual machine
References: <mailman.1038502540.819.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaucjfj.9nh.grante@isis.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1038502540.819.python-list at python.org>, sivaprasad kondapalli wrote:

> Can Python run on any Virtual Machine?

Yes.  As long as there's a Python compiler that generates code for that
virtual machine.  There are currently compilers for JVM and "PVM".

> How good is Python to develop a Thick Client Applications?

Seven.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I smell like a wet
                                  at               reducing clinic on Columbus
                               visi.com            Day!


From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Mon Nov  4 15:00:02 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 20:00:02 GMT
Subject: Dict -> Dict -> List -> List data structure help.
References: <mailman.1036291563.26814.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6jdsuoigeosvea4aoerf43t2e34npjp9g@4ax.com>

On Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:44:49 -0500, "Wayne R" <wayne at tbnets.com> wrote:

>
> I am trying to create a complex data structure and I can't seem to
>figure out how to arrange the dict and list constructs.  Here's the
>basic scheme.  
>
> Dictionary ->    Dictionary            -> List                   ->
>List
> (Store #)        (Transaction #)      (Line # of transaction)
>(Details of transaction line)
> (usually 1,2,3)  (six digit A-X,1-9)  (1-999)                   (Sku
>number, description, extended price) 
>
> Any ideas greatly welcomed.
>
>Wayne
>

This program is a lot more fun to write using generators.  I have
written too many little programs like this one in Python and other
languages, this is the first time I have used generators, and boy
howdy, does it make the code come out clean!

I shudder to think of all the times I have written similar programs in
Visual Basic!

When I write programs like this, I always throw extra data on at the
end, so EOF is no longer a special case.

I think you will find it is easier to have a single dictionary that
stores lists of lists.  Remember that Python lets you use things like
(7, 'XYZ123') as keys to dictionaries, and really that is the easiest
way to go.  You can think of it as getting 'sort by store, then by
transaction' for free!

Manuel

from __future__ import generators
import shlex, StringIO

shlex0 = shlex.shlex( StringIO.StringIO( """

store:2 trans:CDE345 ;
* 1234567 'six-pack of beer' $1.66 ;
* 2345678 'twinkies' $1.77 ;
* 3456789 'cancer sticks' $3.44 ;
store:1 trans:BCD234 ;
* 4567890 'magic muffins' $6.66 ;
* 5678901 'AAA batteries' $3.22 ;
store:2 trans:ABC123 ;
* 5789012 'bottled water' $10.00 ;

""" ))

shlex0.wordchars = '%s:$.' % shlex0.wordchars

def get_tokens():
    while 1:
        token = shlex0.get_token()
        if not token: break
        yield token
    # extra ';' to guarantee line gets flushed
    yield ';'

def get_lines():
    line0 = []
    for token in get_tokens():
        if token == ';':
            if line0: yield line0
            line0 = []
        else:
            line0.append(token)
    # extra to guarantee list gets flushed
    yield ['store:-1', 'trans:XXXXXX']

trans_info = {}
store = -1
trans = 'XXXXXX'
list0 = []
for line0 in get_lines():
    if line0[0] != '*':
        if list0: trans_info[(store,trans)] = list0
        list0 = []
        store = int(line0[0].split(':')[1])
        trans = line0[1].split(':')[1]
    else:
        list0.append( [line0[1],
                       line0[2][1:-1],
                       float(line0[3][1:])] )

keys = trans_info.keys()
# very easy to sort by store, then transaction!
keys.sort()
for store, trans in keys:
    print 'Store#%i, Transaction#%s' % (store, trans)
    list0 = trans_info[(store,trans)]
    for i in range(len(list0)):
        t = [i+1]
        t.extend(list0[i])
        print '    %i %s %r $%.2f' % tuple(t)



From grante at visi.com  Mon Nov 25 23:22:25 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 04:22:25 GMT
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no> <artvr3$cbe$2@wheel2.two14.net> <kps5uugnftv0jk2c23sm8v96gcv9l3n2kc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnau5tr7.9ei.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <kps5uugnftv0jk2c23sm8v96gcv9l3n2kc at 4ax.com>, Courageous wrote:
>>David Brown <david at no.westcontrol.spam.com> wrote:

>>> correctness.  This particular "feature" is a huge source of bugs and
>>> frustration in C programming - mixing up "=" and "==" in conditions is
>>> probably the biggest single cause of C program bugs.  Python, on the other
>>
>>Are you speaking from experience,...
> 
> In my own personal experience, the most common typo I make in C like
> languages is the =/== error. I'm lucky enough to generally see this
> error before I send it to the compiler and fool myself into thinking
> the code is good.

Gcc is pretty good about warning the user when that happens.  At least it
seems to catch it most of the times when I do it -- but it's still not 100%.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I love FRUIT
                                  at               PICKERS!!
                               visi.com            


From hansgeunsmeyer at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 23 13:29:28 2002
From: hansgeunsmeyer at earthlink.net (hg)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 10:29:28 -0800
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <arfgtg$fhj$1@Fourier.suse.de> <7kf83526.fsf@python.net> <95959723.0211201844.7ce3458@posting.google.com> <1037851388.29783@yasure> <lm3nupug.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <95959723.0211231029.426a2f16@posting.google.com>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote in message news:<lm3nupug.fsf at python.net>...

> There are some drawbacks with this approach as far as I can see: First
> a performance hit, because thread states are frequently created and
> destroyed again.

One way to improve that (especially if you have a lot of threads),
might be to use a cache of thread states. Duncan Grisby's OmniORBpy
does that. Have a look at pyThreadCache.h and pyThreadCache.cc in
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/omniorb/omniORBpy/modules/?only_with_tag=omnipy2_develop

> Second, profiling and setting breakpoints won't work across callouts
> and callins because the profiling and tracing is done with objects
> stored in the thread state itself, and creating a new one doesn't
> inherit them from the saved state. This also affects exceptions, which
> are not propagated back into the 'callout' from the 'callin'.
> 
> Hm, can anyone understand the last sentence?
> What I mean is: When an exception occurs in the callback (which runs
> with a newly created thread state), simply PyErr_Print() is called
> before the thread state is deleted, because there's no way to pass
> the exception somewhere else.

I don't know. Wouldn't PyEval_SetTrace and PyEval_SetProfile help you
out here?

Hans


From parker at gol.com  Thu Nov  7 20:35:17 2002
From: parker at gol.com (Ian Parker)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:35:17 +0900
Subject: slow on HPUX, SunOS, fast on MS Win2K and Linux?
References: <xqxlm45jvpd.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <bxaivQEVTxy9EwsF@hiredata.gol.com>

In article <xqxlm45jvpd.fsf at cola2.ca.boeing.com>, Harry George 
<hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com> writes
>Is there some reason python code which builds objects should be
>notably slow on HPUX or SunOS? Some known code optimization problem?
>
>We are seeing:
>
>> -----------
>> import cPickle
>> f =
>> open("/acct/mad5486/SpecEngineV0/bac5117-compiled.xml-pickled",'r')
>> xml_dom_object = cPickle.load(f)
>> ----------------------------END-------------------------------
>> ----------
>>
>> Times:
>>
>>  5 seconds on Intel / Linux
>>  5 seconds on Intel / Win2k
>> 33 seconds on HP-UX 11.0  (uname -a: HP-UX dblv018 B.11.00 E 9000/800)
>> 22 seconds on Sun OS (uname -a: SunOS wizard 5.8
>> Generic_112953-02 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-Enterpris)
>> 17 seconds on HP-UX 10.2  (uname -a: HP-UX drtn029 B.10.20 E 9000/819)
>>
>
>The Win2K and Linux boxes are (nearly) identical hardware.  The others
>are serious machines with substantial RAM.  The guy running the tests
>tried to isolate for these issues:
>
>1. No one else on the machine; light load of background tasks.
>
>2. Code and datafile cached in RAM (no delays due to LAN-based file
>   servers).
>
>3. Results similar for Py 1.5.2 and 2.2.1 on each machine.
>
>4. According to "top" process was getting 99% of CPU, and it was CPU
>   bound.
>
>5. While this example is from the pickle, the same effects were seen
>   for the original PyXML parse of the DOM.
>
As a first step, it might be worth checking the relative power of the 
systems, for example have a look at http://www.spec.org.  At least that 
will give you some idea of what differences to expect.

In a previous incarnation as a datacentre manager, I was increasingly 
embarrassed that of all the "serious" machines in our datacentre (Sun, 
IBM and HP, Compaq Alpha)  only the some of Compaq Alphaservers were 
faster, CPU for CPU, than the recent Intel boxes.  We bought the 
"serious" machines for more for their multiprocessing, large memory, i/o 
bandwidth or even OS (e.g. for VMS or Tru64 UNIX clustering).

So if you've got relatively new Intel boxes, you may well find that they 
are seriously faster.

But I wouldn't expect that to explain the whole of the difference.

Regards
-- 
Ian Parker


From msoulier at storm.ca._nospam  Tue Nov 19 10:44:22 2002
From: msoulier at storm.ca._nospam (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 15:44:22 GMT
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnatkn34.7mq.msoulier@tigger.digitaltorque.ca>

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:18:16 GMT, Josh <jslmaslk at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> I am a python newbie, and I am sure there is an easy answer but, Is there
> any equivalent to C's static variables in Python? If not, how can you have
> variables inside a function, that 'remember' their values between function
> calls?

    What you are referring to is a mathematical concept called a closure. In
Python, closures are implemented with bound methods. Let me demonstrate. 

>>> class Foo:
...     def __init__(self, value):
...             self.value = value
...     def addtoval(self, add):
...             self.value = self.value + add
...             return self.value
...
>>> addtoval = Foo(5).addtoval
>>> addtoval(2)
7
>>> addtoval(2)
9
>>> addtoval(2)
11
>>> addtoval(2)
13
>>> addtoval(2)
15

    Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at storm.ca>, GnuPG pub key: 5BC8BE08
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to Unix
HTML Email Considered Harmful: http://expita.com/nomime.html


From juanm.casillas at eresmas.com  Thu Nov 28 09:53:21 2002
From: juanm.casillas at eresmas.com (Juan M. Casillas)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:53:21 +0100
Subject: LAN communication under windows
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302FD3B81@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <FCEIIOHIDKJHNNJFOJOAAEALCAAA.juanm.casillas@eresmas.com>


> From: stojek at part-gmbh.de [mailto:stojek at part-gmbh.de]
> Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 6:11 AM
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Except that I have no idea how to start or where to look? Do I have to
> use services or sockets or something else? I am sure there is a simple
> example somewhere, but i can't find it.
> 
> Any hints or help?

Hi,

	what about writting the communication layer using xml-rpc?
	it is powerful, easy, and flexible.

	Kind Regards,
	Juan M. Casillas





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Nov  1 01:35:34 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 01:35:34 -0500
Subject: Global variable visibility
References: <mailman.1036107510.2298.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <apt7bm$fes$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1036107510.2298.python-list at python.org>,
David LeBlanc <whisper at oz.net> wrote:
>
>I have main.py which imports database.py, commands.py
>
>Global variable Db is initialized in main.py after importing
>database.py but before importing commands.py. Commands.py uses Db,
>but can't "see" it in main.py. Is there a way to make it so that
>commands.py picks up Db, or do I have to do as I did and create a Db =
>none at the commands.py global level and then pass in an initializer
>for the global? This variable is used so pervasivly that it doesn't
>make sense to pass it as an argument to every function.
>
>Is there a fully qualified name for a global in main that could be used
>from an import?

Yes, but Don't Do That.  Here are two options:

    import commands
    commands.Db = Db

or

    import commands
    commands.set_db(Db)

    # in commands.py
    def set_db(newDb):
        global Db
        Db = newDb

Both of these only work if Db is either static or mutable; if you rebind
__main__.Db, your program will have R-E-A-L problems.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Project Vote Smart: http://www.vote-smart.org/


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 13 14:58:32 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 19:58:32 GMT
Subject: calendar modules
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk> <slrnat4sfj.19g.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <7396d2b2.0211131136.160ee567@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aquat8$l2q$0@216.39.172.122>

On 13 Nov 2002 11:36:11 -0800, d_blade8 at hotmail.com (Lemniscate) wrote:

>Absolutely correct.  However, you can save a teensy bit of typing by
>using prmonth instead.  For example:
>
>>>> calendar.prmonth(1976, 10)
>    October 1976
>Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
>                1  2
> 3  4  5  6  7  8  9
>10 11 12 13 14 15 16
>17 18 19 20 21 22 23
>24 25 26 27 28 29 30
>31
>>>> 
>
>btw, I set the deafult first weekday to Sunday.
>>>> calendar.setfirstweekday(6)
>
>Have fun,
>
I tried. But checking the day of the week I was born
didn't work. This calendar seems limited to >= 1970-01-01
;-(

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Nov 13 14:43:56 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:43:56 -0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns92C5C8C6C305Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) wrote in 
news:m3u1imzcs6.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de:

> DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> Actually converting the documentation can't happen until two obstacles
> are taken:
> 
> - there must be tools to process the resulting XML, such tools are
>   currently not available. We would require HTML, Latex, and texinfo
>   output, perhaps Windows CHM (whatever that is) as well. No such
>   tools are available at the moment.

I believe this to be wrong.
 HTML, PS (guessing that's why you want Latex?) Windows help and PDF
are all available for docbook. texinfo quite possibly if its a common 
need. Mail me off list if you are interested.



> 
> - Documentation authors must be educated on how to use this DTD. This
>   will be quite a difficult task, especially as everybody uses text
>   editors to manipulate the XML, and will complain that the XML is so
>   much more verbose and unforgiving than LaTeX.

I won't disagree with you there :-)
 Did you have the same trouble moving from plain text to \latex?

> 
> Remember, the documentation format should suit documentation authors,

OK. 

Just curious why you aren't using quills/biro's.

Regards DaveP.
I think I've said my piece.


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 28 16:26:13 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 21:26:13 GMT
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org> <as1n60$dkg$2@wheel2.two14.net> <3DE5883C.8010705@something.invalid> <as5o9n$phg$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <as61ll$h9b$0@216.39.172.122>

On 28 Nov 2002 18:46:15 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:06:36 +1300, Greg Ewing <see_reply_address at something.invalid> wrote:
>
>>maney at pobox.com wrote:
>>
>>> Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>proof that the language is broken in that area. We don't say, "Is Tuesday 
>>>>today?" or "Is 5 your age?", either. :)
>>> 
>>> Is it Tuesday today?
>>
>>
>>But these sound *really* odd:
>They sound odd without appropriate context, but if something is grammatically
>correct, chances are there's a use for it. E.g.,
>>
>"We have been writing the first name of a lesser-known actress on
>the blackboard every day."
>>   Is Tuesday it today?
>
>>
>"We have discussed when to meet for lunch, and I think I can now say with
>some assurance that we have finally decided on the day."
>>   Tuesday is it.
>>
Rereading that, I have to add that stress and intonation
make a lot of difference too ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From ronecker at noos.fr  Mon Nov 25 15:30:01 2002
From: ronecker at noos.fr (Pascal Ronecker)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 21:30:01 +0100
Subject: cannot import gtk
In-Reply-To: <200211251931.gAPJVNN25597@fourier.capital.edu>
References: <pan.2002.11.24.20.59.20.170846@noos.fr> 
	<200211241734.38215.dreed@capital.edu>
	<1038250593.848.6.camel@m37.net195-132-249.noos.fr> 
	<200211251931.gAPJVNN25597@fourier.capital.edu>
Message-ID: <1038256201.2518.3.camel@m37.net195-132-249.noos.fr>

THANK YOU !!!

in fact, i already have the files, they are in
/usr/lib/pyhton1.5/site-packages.

(don't know why there and not with python2.2. That's what annoy me
sometimes with rpm magic)

i simply add that directory to the PYTHONPATH and it works fine !

THX AGAIN !!

On Mon, 2002-11-25 at 20:31, Dave Reed wrote:
> > From: Pascal Ronecker <ronecker at noos.fr>
> > Cc: python-list at python.org
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> > Date: 25 Nov 2002 19:56:33 +0100
> > Content-Length: 1651
> > 
> > Thanks !
> > 
> > but i'm still stuck.
> > 
> > For example : GtkText does not exist, neither does Text alone.
> > 
> > What is more, i have other problems with "from gnome.ui import GnomeApp"
> > and so on.Changing all the code seems a long way to me.
> > (it is the "eroaster" cd burning tool, a nice all-in-one)
> > 
> > 
> > Maybe the right solution is to "install the bindings" as you say, but i
> > do not have the slightest idea as to what it means...
> > 
> > So if you could explain a bit that last bit, ...
> > thx !!
> 
> > 
> > Lenny
> 
> 
> You need to know if eroaster wants gtk 1.2 or gtk2. I'm guessing 1.2
> for a couple reasons (gtk2 is relatively new so most older programs
> still use 1.2). It does appear with pygtk1.2 that the Gtk prefix is
> still there so "from gtk import GtkVBox" is what you want, but with
> pygtk2 you don't.
> 
> You'll need to download the file: 
> gnome-python-1.4.2.tar.gz
> which you can find on the gnome.org ftp site and install it with the
> usual:
> 
> tar zxf gnome-python-1.4.2.tar.gz
> cd gnome-python-1.4.2
> ./configure
> make
> make install
> 
> this will put the pygtk1.2 files in
> /usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages
> 
> so you'll need to add that directory to your PYTHONPATH environment
> variable.
> 
> HTH,
> Dave





From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov  8 10:57:43 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:57:43 GMT
Subject: Help me out with bugs in my list ?
References: <mailman.1036729150.25005.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <X9Ry9.6392$Bs5.189857@news1.tin.it>

Mindy wrote:

> Hey, I have two lists like:
> binding_list =
> ["ls","ls","ls","netscape","netscape","lib","lib"]
> 
> to_list =
> ["ls","lib","ls","netscape","ls","lib","lib"]
> 
> I want to get non-duplicated pairs of strings from
> them like
> (binding_list[i],to_list[i]) by eliminating the
> duplicated pairs. For the above two lists, I want to

Is the *ordering* of the resulting set of "non-duplicated
pairs of strings" important to you?  If not, easy -- two
statements to build a list of non-duplicated pairs:

auxlist = zip(binding_list, to_list)
nondups = dict(zip(auxlist, auxlist)).keys()

This gives you a list of non-duplicated pairs in
arbitrary order -- no relation to the order of those
pairs in binding_list and to_list.

> get two new lists:
> binding_list = ['ls', 'ls', 'netscape', 'netscape',
> 'lib']
> to_list = ['ls', 'lib', 'netscape', 'ls', 'lib']

>From the above nondups list of pairs, you can rebuild
a pair of lists most easily:

binding_list = [ bind for bind, tol in nondups ]
to_list = [ tol for bind, tol in nondups ]


If you need to preserve order in the lists, the
problem becomes substantially harder.  E.g.:

auxlist = zip(binding_list, to_list)
auxdict = dict(zip(auxlist, xrange(len(auxlist))))
nondups = [ auxlist[i] for i in xrange(len(auxlist))
    if auxdict[auxlisti]] == i ]

this recovers order but keeps the LAST occurrence
of each duplicated pair.  So one obvious way to get
to keep the FIRST is through a couple of reversals:

auxlist = zip(binding_list, to_list)
auxlist.reverse()
auxdict = dict(zip(auxlist, xrange(len(auxlist))))
nondups = [ auxlist[i] for i in xrange(len(auxlist))
    if auxdict[auxlisti]] == i ]
nondups.reverse()

There are other approaches, of course.  E.g.:

auxlist = zip(binding_list, to_list)
dondict = {}
nondups = []
for pair in auxlist:
    if pair in dondict: continue
    nondups.append(pair)
    dondict.pair = 1

this way, you naturally end up with the FIRST
occurrence of each duplicated pair.


Your approach was tainted because you were trying
to modify lists on which you were iterating.  Don't
do that: that's almost invariably a mistake, as
things "shift under you" as you remove things from
the list you're iterating on, or insert things into
it; it's very unlikely that the end effect is what
you need.  When "modifying a list while iterating on
it" appears to be the only course (not in this case
of course, since the above approaches provide much
preferable solutions), iterate on a COPY of the list
while you're modifying the original -- taking the
copy, a "snapshot" of the list (e.g. by thelist[:]),
guards you against the "shift under you" effect.


Alex



From boud at valdyas.org  Mon Nov  4 01:15:34 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 07:15:34 +0100
Subject: pyqt rules
References: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <3dc571d0$0$63818$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <7Dgx9.41909$Lg2.11396126@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1036370164.21605.python-list@python.org> <2Dkx9.42039$Lg2.11444432@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3dc61f39$0$131$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl>

Bob X wrote:

> "Phil Thompson" <phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1036370164.21605.python-list at python.org...
> On Sunday 03 November 2002 9:33 pm, Bob X wrote:
> <snip>
>>The binary of Qt NC is at
>>http://www.trolltech.com/developer/download/qt-win-noncomm.html
> 
> Under the requirement it states that Visual Studio 6 is required. Does
> that mean only for integration into the IDE or does that mean I have to
> compile the download with it? I guess I am just confused about the lingo
> they are using. I have been to that page several times and always thought
> they meant here is the Qt stuff BUT you have to compile it with VC6.
> 

Trolltech never thought you'd be using it for anything but
compiling C++ source; for that you need Visual C++. Fortunately,
PyQt-NC for Windows is precompiled, so you don't need to 
bother.

>>The binary of PyQt for Qt NC is at
>>http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/download.php
> 
> So I get the binary (exe's) for both...run 'em and now I can do PyQt?
> 

Yes.

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From fclift at verio.net  Fri Nov  8 17:17:53 2002
From: fclift at verio.net (Fred Clift)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:17:53 -0700 (MST)
Subject: complicated class question
In-Reply-To: <200211082220.36462.aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021108150800.L58763-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net>

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Alex Martelli wrote:
...
> then attribute named 'a' is looked up in global variable 'syslib'
> of this module, and then called, each time method bar is called
> on an instance of b.  If the module uses "from syslib import a"
> instead, then the lookup is done when the "from" statement
> executes.  In either case, it's possible to change an attribute
> of this 'thirdparty' module after the class statement is
> executed (and even after class b is instantiated) and before
> method bar is called on b instances, and affect what ends up
> in ainst -- but without knowing whether module 'thirdparty' uses
> statement import or statement from, we can't know whether we
> need to rebind thirdparty.syslib or else thirdparty.a.
>


Ok -- I've posted the toy version of this problem without enough detail so
let me tell you the gory details.

I'm writing a SOAP client using ZSI.  I create an
instance of ZSI.client.Binding().  ZSI/client.py does an import httplib,
and creates an instance of httplib.HTTPConnection().  I'm trying to
provide customized a customized httplib.HTTPConnection.Connect().  My
version would do a normal connect and then negotiate a custom security
exchange ahead of the normal transaction (gssapi/kerberos encryption of
the connection).

So, I want my program to be able to either a) change my namesapce ahead of
time, or fiddle with the namespace of an instance of ZSI.client.Binding()
so that when it does an 'import httplib' and makes an instance of
httplib.HTTPConnection that it gets my version of of that class, or at the
least, I can hook the Connect function somehow.

A cursory examination of the code appears to show that I can insantiate
Binding without it making any connections or doing much till I make my
first soap calls.  If this is the case, I could settle for
after-instantiation poking around in the object.

I've been away from my email for several hours and have not yet had a
chance to try out the suggestions of the people on this list.  That is
next on my list to do so I'll let you know if any of the suggestions work.

Again, thaks for your patience and your suggestions. :).

Fred


--
Fred Clift - fclift at verio.net -- Remember: If brute
force doesn't work, you're just not using enough.




From davegaramond at icqmail.com  Sun Nov 10 15:29:44 2002
From: davegaramond at icqmail.com (David Garamond)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:29:44 -0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <m2k7jlo6o3.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3DCEC1B8.8060601@icqmail.com>

Paul Foley wrote:
>>one sentence: "syntax matters." for people in denial, make it two: "yes 
>>it really does."
> 
> Yes, you're right, it does.  That's why sane people prefer Lisp!

ah, that explains the saying that "the whole world is crazy..."

-- 
dave

ps: i hope paul won't mind my throwing back the response to the list.




From cliechti at gmx.net  Fri Nov  8 13:43:06 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 20:43:06 +0200
Subject: Help! Wrapping Win32 code with SWIG - or am I barking up the wrong tree!
References: <gDNy9.932$Dl2.61256@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>
Message-ID: <Xns92C0D2F196DD3cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"ebe" <ebe at offworld.com> wrote in
news:gDNy9.932$Dl2.61256 at newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net: 
> I've seen that Python has win32 extensions, and I could use these to
> create a main window and get a device context, but how would  my C++
> engine get access to these?

pass the window handle as integer. win32all has function to convert an 
integer to a handle so you could simple take win32all and don't try to wrap 
it yourself.

> Can C++ extensions have access to Python
> variables? 

you can access all objects from C/C++ in the same way as python does, but 
that's accessing the objects, not base types like C int, double etc. in 
case of numbers.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From whisper at oz.net  Wed Nov 27 19:12:58 2002
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:12:58 -0800
Subject: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
In-Reply-To: <1038388222.2039.144.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>
Message-ID: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEKEJPGEAA.whisper@oz.net>

If using Mozilla is an option, then you might want to look into XUL. This
offers a rich xml based UI delivery platform. IIRC, there is a python
binding for XUL as well.

This might be interesting:
http://www.mozilla.org/docs/xul/xulnotes/xulnote_oven.html
And this: http://www.mozilla.org/catalog/architecture/xul/

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Ian Bicking
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:10
> To: pieroul at attglobal.net
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
>
>
> On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 22:05, Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> > What I'd like to be able to do is implement a complete
> GUI-based control
> > application (with buttons, slider, whatever widgets the app needs)
> > accessible over the web.
>
> If you confine yourself to HTML widgets (which does not includes
> sliders, for instance), this is obviously possible -- that's what forms
> are, after all.  If you want widgets beyond what's available in HTML
> (either more responsive/interactive, or simply widgets HTML doesn't
> have, like decent file selection), then you will have to either code up
> a Java applet (potentially in Jython), or write a client application.
>
> If you write a client application, you can use whatever Python GUI you
> want (Tkinter, wxWindows, etc).  You may wish to communicate to the
> server using XMLRPC.  For something more advanced you could use Pyro
> (pyro.sf.net) or another distributed object system (of which there are
> several).
>
> There's many examples of XMLRPC servers for Python, and many of the
> Python web frameworks contain XMLRPC support.  You should be able to
> integrate XMLRPC into your web server system, though I'd encourage you
> to consider using a framework.  To choose a framework, see:
>   http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Bicking           Colorstudy Web Development
> ianb at colorstudy.com   http://www.colorstudy.com
> PGP: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0x9B9E28B7
> 4869 N Talman Ave, Chicago, IL 60625 / (773) 275-7241
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From threeseas at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 23 08:07:38 2002
From: threeseas at earthlink.net (Timothy Rue)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:07:38 GMT
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net> <743utuoi3l31t8e8tt9v3sncosuk2gqi02@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1239.92T1047T4844497threeseas@earthlink.net>

On 23-Nov-02 00:08:04 Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> wrote:
>>Python Dicktatorshit.

>Banning isn't an inappropriate response to someone who shows every sign
>of delusional thinking.

>C//

Apparently there are arrogant jerks calling themselves programmers where
in fact they haven't a clue as to what a variable is.

unfortunately these jerks have managed to get themselves into a position
of power over others.

they exist here too.

so what the fuck don't you understand about a named container that can
hold changable information? Like a variable or a file. Or hell, how about
variables in files..

Are you one of them arrogant jerks in power that haven't a clue, too.


Of course you are, why else woud you think I'm delusional about such a
simple common concept?


No wonder the computure industry is generally not doing so well. IT is out
of the building!


---
*3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!*
   *~ ~ ~      Advancing How we Perceive and Use the Tool of Computers!*
Timothy Rue      What's *DONE* in all we do?  *AI PK OI IP OP SF IQ ID KE*
Email @ mailto:timrue at mindspring.com      >INPUT->(Processing)->OUTPUT>v
Web @ http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/  ^<--------<----9----<--------<



From TomH at optiscan.com  Sun Nov 10 17:56:46 2002
From: TomH at optiscan.com (Tom Harris)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:56:46 +1100
Subject: Verifying that a data structure follows a schema
Message-ID: <D1CF0387F1A4D51182B600D0B7A7A95F071582@uluru2.optiscan.com>

Greetings,

I am loading an arbitrary data structure as configuration data. Is there a
simple schema description that will let me validate that (say) the structure
is a list of dicts, with certain keys? Something like a simple schema
language.

Grouch http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/grouch/ implements most of the
stuff I need, but is massive overkill for the job in hand. I have a
suspicion that such simple schema tool exist as a single file in other
larger projects, but I have been unable to find any.

TomH <tomh(AT)optiscan(DOT)com>



From maney at pobox.com  Fri Nov 15 17:21:41 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:21:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <aqunac$qj$4@wheel2.two14.net> <aquvr6$qrb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <ar3s1l$q9$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote:
> Whoa--what about all that passing-state-around stuff you mentioned in
> another message?

I'm trying to imagine what I described that has anything to do with this
next bit, and I keep failing.

> What if you have more than one value to assign (that would need to be used
> inside the if clause)?  Sorry, but I must disagree again.  It's an
> incomplete solution.

I never said it was a contender in the "generality for the sake of
generality" sweepstakes... but then, in light of OP's question and my own
feelings about Python and Lisp and the other languages mentioned, I wonder
if that (gftsog) might not be an important part of the answer to his
question.

Anyway, to address your challenge.  So, how would you return a set of
objects from a function call in Python in other circumstances?  Supposing
that assignment evaluated to the value assigned, how might you use that to
extract the portion of the set of values that's needed for the condional
test?

> No, I've never been a computer science student.

Neither have I, in any formal sense.  Just a life-long learner (god, I hate
that phrase, but in this case it's both apt and brief).  One of my
most-prized posessions is a literally falling-apart (so-called perfect
bindings are not; not at all, at all) copy of _Classics in Software
Engineering_ (ed. Yourdon), and Knuth's article is a good part of the reason
I treasure it.

> What specifically about the paper you mention is contrary to my
> suppose clause?

Nothing that I can think of.   Rather, your ready hand at whipping up some
new flow-control syntax reminded me of Knuth's paper, for he does that more
than a few times there.  Of course, the motivations are rather different,
since Knuth's purpose is to replace "ugly" but efficent code (with those
gotos mentioned in the title) with structured code; this leads him to invent
a number of variant flow-control structures that capture the shapes of the
efficent solutions in a cleaner, less general for than gotos.

> I would say creating a new syntax for the sake of this uncommon idiom
> isn't much more ridiculous than changing the assignment semantics just
> for this uncommon idiom.  They are both big changes for a small
> problem.

Quite likely.  Again, I wasn't really all that interested in arguing for the
addition of operator= sematics to Python.  That was a jumping-off point that
led from a thread I was swimming through to my real interest, which was how
to do what needed doing in Python as it exists.  Not that I haven't enjoyed
the digression.  :-)


From bswhb at 263.net  Fri Nov 22 01:48:13 2002
From: bswhb at 263.net (Wang Hanbo)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:48:13 +0800
Subject: With what module can Python handel *.tar.gz file?
Message-ID: <000701c291f3$240e69c0$d001a8c0@dctc.cs>

Hi,
         Buddies, I have a file named  ***.tar.gz, and I want to gunzip
it with Python.
         With which modules can I accomplish this task? And how to?
 
Hanbo
2002-11-22
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20021122/43752ea6/attachment.html>

From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov  7 22:29:50 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:29:50 -0800
Subject: Module names beginning w/ a digit
References: <NhCy9.700852$Ag2.26441101@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3DCB2FAE.1A3F93EF@alcyone.com>

"John E. Barham" wrote:

> Why can't Python module names start a digit?

Because names that start with digits aren't valid identifiers.  Module
names can't be Python keywords, either:

max at oxygen:~/tmp% touch is.py
max at oxygen:~/tmp% python
Python 2.2.2 (#2, Oct 14 2002, 17:32:20) 
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import is
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    import is
            ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

As someone else pointed out, you can use the __import__ function which
takes a string, rather than an identifier.  If it's something you plan
on using a lot, though, you're probably off giving it the name of a
legal Python identifier.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The conviction of wisdom is the plague of man.
\__/ Montaigne
    Church / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/church/
 A lambda calculus explorer in Python.


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Mon Nov 18 06:06:38 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:06:38 +0100
Subject: Serial Port
References: <mailman.1037306122.3207.python-list@python.org> <3dd47570$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net> <3dd514e8$0$4448$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <arahhn$urd$1@news.netpower.no>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:3dd514e8$0$4448$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> In article <3dd47570$1 at news.nz.asiaonline.net>, Colin Brown wrote:
> >
> > Hi Luca
> >
> > Try PySerial - a nice multiplatform solution
>
> On a slight tangent, anybody know where there's documentation
> or examples of doing stuff like overlapped serial I/O under
> Win32 with events and callbacks and suchlike in Python?  I
> haven't found a copy of the Python on Win32 book yet...
>
> --

I find it easier to run serial communication in a seperate thread if I need
asynchronous communication.  You don't normally have so many serial ports
open at a time that the threading overhead is significant, it is much easier
than messing with the overlapped I/O stuff, and it is platform-independant.
To be entirely honest, though, the couple of Python programs I have written
so far that use the serial port have not bothered with threading either -
they just send out something, and wait for a reply or timeout (using the
inWaiting() function from pyserial, along with time.sleep).  But if I needed
something more advanced, then I *would* use threads - I've done it in
Delphi, and it works fine.






From emil71se at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 13 03:27:33 2002
From: emil71se at yahoo.com (L Ekman)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:27:33 GMT
Subject: Tkinter+CORBA+threads, two main-loops. Problems?
Message-ID: <V1oA9.7256$Y2.175@news2.bredband.com>

Hello,

I am trying to make a program that contains a CORBA server
implemented with orbit-python-0.3.1 and a GUI implemented with
Tkinter.

The problem is that both orbit-python-0.3.1 and Tkinter has
"main-loops", and can not find a way to implement this in a
single threaded program.

Two threads does not work either. The ORB-thread seems to block
out the Tkinter thread. The CORBA server works, but the GUI does
not start. Simple "print" statements shows that the Tkinter thread
runs some fiew lines, or is not allowed to start at all.

If anyone have any suggestions I'll be grateful.


Best Regards,
Lars Ekman



P.S.
I have posted a very similar question to this a couple of weeks
ago. I did not see any followup for some days, then I got problems
with news. I apologize if someone have answered my previous post
and I missed it.




From pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Nov 15 02:10:22 2002
From: pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:10:22 +0100
Subject: rm -rf in python?
References: <mailman.1037338041.7097.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.15.08.10.22.377892.710@thomas-guettler.de>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 06:25:37 +0100, Vasisht Tadigotla wrote:


>> Is there a way (short of executing a shell command) that I can do a rm
>> -rf on a directory from python?  It raises an OSError if you try to
>> delete a directory that has contents.  I suppose that I could recurse
>> down through, deleteing as I went, but it seems that there must be an
>> easier way.
> 
> use the  rmtree() function in shutil module, works on *nix. i don't
> think it works on windows though.

AFAIK it works on windows, too.

 thomas
-- 
Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
http://www.thomas-guettler.de


From brian_ at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 10 22:37:13 2002
From: brian_ at yahoo.com (Brian Lenihan)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:37:13 -0800
Subject: Pmw link is always dead ???
References: <mailman.1036982353.9423.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MPG.1838c5c2287ea1d989688@news.nw.centurytel.net>

In article <mailman.1036982353.9423.python-list at python.org>, 
blackprogramming at yahoo.com says...
> 
> God I tried thousands of times to that link but failed all the time. anywhere else available please ???

Have you tried here?
http://pmw.sourceforge.net/


From costanza at web.de  Fri Nov 22 17:45:37 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:45:37 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Donn Cave wrote:
> Quoth Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de>:
> | Donn Cave wrote:

> |> It's arguably
> |> true that the normal programmer can more easily conceive a procedural
> |> solution to a problem, but it is not true that this solution will
> |> naturally be robust and maintainable.
> | [...]
> |
> | That's even true for code that superficially looks like OOP. An 
> | extremely well-presented example and discussion of this can be found at 
> | http://csis.pace.edu/~bergin/patterns/ppoop.html
> 
> That's an interesting read, all right, but ``procedural'' is used
> there in a different sense, I believe, than I intended it - in fact,
> almost the opposite.  In the sense I'm using it, OOP _is_ procedural,
> or nearly always.  By some accounts, that may not have been the original
> idea, but the alternative (OO that is not procedural) seems to be
> difficult to find or describe.

Just recently I have encountered some useful terminological distinctions 
in c.l.l that made sense to me. There you have the imperative and 
message-passing paradigms on the one hand, and the procedural and 
object-oriented style on the other hand. The interesting bit is that 
these things are independent. So procedural style is well-suited for the 
imperative paradigm and object-oriented is well-suited for the 
message-passing paradigm. However, you can also do message-passing in a 
purely procedural languages as well as use the imperative style in most 
object-oriented languages. I guess that you are thinking along these 
lines as well.

> Probably the best counter example, of a language that emphasizes
> what I'm calling ``equational'' rather than procedural, is Haskell.
> It's the most prominent example of a ``non-strict, purely functional''
> programming language (``non-strict'' is a queer term that probably
> doesn't mean what you think.)  Haskell has a type class system that
> supports polymorphism, but it's no OOPL.  There's an O'Haskell offshoot
> that I find really interesting (though evidently I'm alone on that,
> because it seems to be a dead project), and it really illustrates the
> point by adding OO to Haskell and not making it a bit like any ordinary
> OOPL.

Yes, this kind of pure languages is very interesting. However, I have 
doubts that they are of practical importance. Purely functional or 
purely declarative programs can be very intriguing when they are in a 
"finished" state, but this hides the fact that it's harder in these 
languages to get to such a "finished" state IMHO. It's more important 
what kind of support a programming language gives you as long as a 
program does _not_ work (because that's what they do most of time during 
development). From my experience, you need an easily accessible 
operational model of what goes on behind the scenes in order to 
understand why a program does not work. Languages like Haskell and, for 
example, Prolog make it hard to have an understanding of the operational 
model. Both the imperative and the message-passing paradigm have 
comparably simple operational models.

I prefer a language that allows me to use side effects and message 
passing as default modes but let me switch to purely 
functional/declarative features for subtasks that are simple enough to 
be modeled that way.

(BTW, for the same reason I don't like static type systems. It's nice to 
be able to prove some static properties of a program when it is 
finished, but during development static type systems usually just stand 
in the way.)


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Nov 28 14:26:03 2002
From: pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:26:03 +0100
Subject: Name of current method
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.28.20.26.03.172820.727@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi!

How can I get the name of the method which is
executed?

Example:

def mymethod(self):
	print self.__magic__

--> "mymethod"

 thomas

-- 
Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
http://www.thomas-guettler.de


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 19 11:34:59 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 16:34:59 GMT
Subject: infinite recursion
References: <m3zns69x38.fsf@mutated.seabass>
Message-ID: <ardp7j$cp0$1@216.39.172.122>

On 19 Nov 2002 01:17:47 +0000, michael eng <newsread at seabass.yi.org> wrote:

>
>Hello
>
>My program has a deeply recursive function which hits some upper bound
>in Python 2.2.1.  I fear such madness comes from being forced to
>program in Prolog.
>
>Anyway, is there a way in which I can remove the upper bound, such that
>the recursion depth is only limited by the constraints of the machine?
>
>All the documentation I have found tells me how to set it to an
>arbitrary finite value.
>
 >>> import sys
 >>> help(sys.setrecursionlimit)
 Help on built-in function setrecursionlimit:

 setrecursionlimit(...)
     setrecursionlimit(n)

     Set the maximum depth of the Python interpreter stack to n.  This
     limit prevents infinite recursion from causing an overflow of the C
     stack and crashing Python.  The highest possible limit is platform-
     dependent.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov 26 11:26:32 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:26:32 -0600
Subject: A bug or a feature: how to avoid?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302F8A145@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Lexy Zhitenev [mailto:zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:13 AM
> 
> My code has to react on many exceptions.
> I use ActivePython 2.2.1 with stackless 2.2.2 DLL.
> 
> The problem is that I can't write a handler for more than two 
> exceptions at once. My program can throw a lot of exceptions,
> and I can't react on them simultaneously!
> 
> This code doesn't work, it raises SyntaxError
> 
> >>> try:
> ...  pass
> ... except IndexError, ValueError, NameError:
> Traceback (  File "<interactive input>", line 3
>     except IndexError, ValueError, NameError:
>                                  ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> >>>
> 
> I don't want to write the code under try statement twice! What's the
> solution? Or it should be reported as a bug?
>

use:

   try:
      pass
   except (IndexError,ValueError,NameError), err:
      do_something()

The exceptions to be caught should be either a single class
or a tuple of classes.

Good luck!

-gustavo



From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Wed Nov 27 16:13:15 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:13:15 +1100
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
In-Reply-To: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D01200302@intrepid>
References: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D01200302@intrepid>
Message-ID: <200211280813.15555.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

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On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 03:20, Simon Brunning wrote:
> > Any ideas to make it more reliable ?
>
> See <http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue83/evans.html>.
Reading this pointed out the value of a validator. If you want input in a 
particular form, it is probably better to not let the user do anything else, 
rather than let them do an entry, then explain what they did wrong, then let 
them try again.

Anyone got a class that can do generic validation, without using one of the 
GUIs?

Brad

- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From Kricxjo.neniuspamajxo at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  5 05:28:56 2002
From: Kricxjo.neniuspamajxo at yahoo.com (Christopher R. Culver)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 11:28:56 +0100
Subject: How does Python handle probing to see if a file already exists?
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.05.10.28.55.506357@yahoo.com>

Hello all,

I've just begun learning Python after already getting pretty proficient in
C. However, I'm having a problem with a simple copying program. Ideally,
the program would check to see if the destination already exists and
prompt the user. In this this would be as easy as saying:

probe_destination = fopen(/usr/bin/foo, 'r')
if (probe_destination)
{
some code here;
}

However, translating that directly into Python doesn't work because if
Python can't find a file to open, it doesn't just return 0, it gives an
error and exits. How can I write this functionality in Python so that it
returns 0 and continues, or does Python have a totally different way of
handling this problem than C?

Christopher Culver




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Nov 16 12:40:20 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:40:20 -0500
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <mailman.1037232380.29621.python-list@python.org> <3DD66C66.36420BBE@engcorp.com> <m3u1ihcvda.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3DD68304.2939A5F4@engcorp.com>

"Martin v. Loewis" wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
> > At least one I can think of is that if the source were in XML,
> > something I can manipulate with my eyes closed thanks both to
> > its simplicity and to the herculean efforts of the many people
> > who have contributed to the many Python XML technologies, I
> > would have the opportunity to "play" with it, and quite possibly
> > would come up with some novel things to do with it that those
> > who currently have access have not, and perhaps would not, have
> > thought of.
> 
> That is, unfortunately, not a convincing-enough reason: the
> possibility that somebody may find a use for the documentation that he
> can't think of right now.

I was responding only to David's implied belief that there is no use 
"however slight"... not trying to convince _you_.  It seems a bit
short-sighted to think there could not possibly be any value in
the technology whatsoever.  (Yes, I know David only said nobody had
pointed out such a use yet...)

> Most likely. It appears that your potential uses would all deal with
> new processing opportunities, in which case I would always refer to
> the existing conversion to XML, which then could be used as a starting
> point for whatever new processing strategies people come up with.
> 
> For this kind of application, it is not necessary that the primary
> source is XML; it is sufficient that XML can be derived from it.

Agreed!  I was hoping that the messages I had missed might have
included comments about such a thing.  That should address the 
concerns of those suggesting, for example, that some novel search
tools could be built more easily if they had access to an XML version
of the docs.

Clearly, if the current markup is sufficient that useful XML can be 
derived from it, there is no need to switch the primary source over
to being that XML... that could always be done in the future,
if the need arises.

-Peter


From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Tue Nov  5 18:41:24 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:41:24 -0600
Subject: The Deitel book (was Re: Textbooks on Perl/Python)
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036226184.12174.python-list@python.org> <niNw9.75632$TD1.3404688@news2.tin.it> <m27kfsm2x8.fsf@python.net> <aq8qbh$ik0$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <007001c28524$db8f1760$ba01010a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com>


> In article <m27kfsm2x8.fsf at python.net>, Michael Hudson  <mwh at python.net>
wrote:
> >Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> >>
> >> if and when a student manages to work all through it, I think the
> >> student WILL feel pretty confident in their mastery of the subject.
> >
> >("it" is Deitel & Deitel's Python : How To Program)
> >
> >My concern was that the student might feel confident in the subject
> >after reading the book, but that this might not be justified.  It does
> >cover a huge amount of material, but not with enormous depth (at
> >least, not in the chapters *I* tech reviewed).
>
> My concerns were primarily teaching of poor coding techniques (e.g. use
> of magic numbers instead of well-named constants) and an approach that I
> can best describe as Python written by a Java programmer (rather than
> teaching a Pythonic approach).

I was one of the technical reviewers for this book, and
frankly I wasn't impressed.  They only asked me for review
of factual information, not presentation or style; and I
feel it is the latter two that torpedo this book.

My favorite (so far) is Steve Holden's "Python Web Programming."
It covers a lot of territory and includes a lot of neat stuff.

Also enjoyable to read.

I realize that several other bright people on this list are
or have written books recently; I just haven't read them yet...

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net




From fw at deneb.enyo.de  Fri Nov 22 17:49:51 2002
From: fw at deneb.enyo.de (Florian Weimer)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:49:51 +0100
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <uttc45cdkdq7f7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87wun5md80.fsf@deneb.enyo.de>

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> writes:

> One consequence of this is that in another release, None might
> compare high rather than low. I rather doubt that it ever would,
> but the possibility is there.

It has already changed (at some point between 1.5.2 and 2.1, IIRC).


From gumuz at looze.net  Thu Nov 14 13:16:55 2002
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:16:55 GMT
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <aqt734$r6j$0@216.39.172.122> <mtk5tu0llkfais6vnmqennuolcg3mtd7be@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <rMRA9.6997$D02.292854@castor.casema.net>

> My only problem is that, while I'm pretty good at the Delphi side of
> things, my wx knowledge is limited at the moment. It would be a good
> incentive to improve, though. I think I feel a little project coming
> on ...


same here... let me know if you have serious plans ;-)


guyon




From toure_bomoko at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 17:38:53 2002
From: toure_bomoko at yahoo.co.uk (Toure Bomoko)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 14:38:53 -0800
Subject: Tkinter and event loops
Message-ID: <9c85402f.0211221438.7afb90af@posting.google.com>

I'm writing an application with a Tkinter GUI front end, the latter to
display output on a Canvas widget. The application should perform some
intensive computation whilst periodically updating the GUI, and I was
wondering if there was a way for the backend to regularly (and
manually) "yield" to the GUI so that it can process any pending events
before returning to the meaty processing for a bit, AND without using
threads. I've done this using C and the GTK+ widget library along
these lines:

    while (gtk_events_pending())
        gtk_main_iteration();

Toure


From rmunn at pobox.com  Sun Nov 10 00:56:07 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 05:56:07 GMT
Subject: Web based interface
References: <2027692.1036809220@dbforums.com> <2029571.1036894489@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasrtg8.is8.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 at 02:14 GMT, Tetsuo <member at dbforums.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all the advise. I got Apache and that module, but Apache
> won't run. We had problems with Web servers, but my mom figured out that
> localhost got renamed to something else snd got another server to run.
> But Apache just won't run. My mom tried to connect and it can't. We
> probably didn't install it right. I'll try again tomorrow.
> 
> Why, o why don't I have money for a new comp? Everything would
> work there...

Detailed questions about Apache for Windows are kind of off-topic for
this group, but this URL should help (in case you haven't already looked
there):

    http://httpd.apache.org/docs/windows.html

It's rather a long page, but it's well worth taking the time to read it
and figure out how to run Apache, as it's far superior to IIS.

Good luck!

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov 13 18:30:23 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:30:23 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de> <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <3DD0D765.3030907@web.de> <3DD16CAF.41214BBA@alcyone.com> <aqrvhs$mqf$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3dd1ffd7$0$63936$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <hbidnSqaPvrkAk-gXTWcpw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3DD2E08F.B19579C5@alcyone.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> Thanks.  I'll learn a few things from this. However, apropos to the
> thread topic, I am somewhat flabbergasted that anyone could think that
> Scheme's
> 
>    (sort (cons 1297.04 (cons 20000.00 (cons -505.25 empty))))
>    ;; expected value:
>    (cons 20000.00 (cons 1297.04 (cons -505.25 empty)))
> 
> (section 12.2) is a sensible list notation to inflict on anyone, let
> alone newcomers, in preference to anything like Python's [1297.04,
> 2000.00, -505.25], etc.  I understand that there is a pedagogical
> point in using such notation to explain list construction and
> destruction, but the above comes well beyond that part ot the book.

This is just demonstrating how to build up lists from cons cells; in
that respect, it is no different from other Lisps (although in Common
Lisp the empty would be replaced by nil).  There are other, more
convenient ways to build lists, e.g.

	(list 1297.04 20000.00 -505.25)
	'(1297.04 20000.00 -505.25)

The example above is just demonstrating that lists are built from cons
cells and (probably) hinting at the fact that more lower level data
structuring can be done with cons cells, and lists are only one
(degenerate) application.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes.
\__/ Oscar Wilde
    WebVal / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/webval/
 URL scanner, maintainer, and validator in Python.


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Nov 10 03:36:47 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 02:36:47 -0600
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <200211092320.20597.shalehperry@attbi.com>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
	<ff133276.0211091535.47871cf2@posting.google.com>
	<aqkdoq$db6$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> 
	<200211092320.20597.shalehperry@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <1036917407.1525.22.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Sun, 2002-11-10 at 01:20, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> What always bothers me though is the quote syntax.  '(this text) is different 
> from (this text).  I find that when reading code it is very, very easy to 
> miss that silly quote.  Sure you just learn to look for it but it is still 
> what irks me most.

I'm not sure if I'm replying to this, or just to all the Lisp syntax
issues that have been raised.  But since I've seen so many, I thought
I'd bring Logo to people's attention.

Logo (the teaching language, famous for its turtles) is very much Lisp,
but with some small changes that makes the syntax much simpler.  When
Logo is parsed, you use the arity (number of arguments) of a function to
determine the grouping.  So, given that RIGHT, LEFT, and FORWARD take
one argument, and PENUP takes none, you can parse:

  FORWARD 100 RIGHT 90 PENUP FORWARD 10

into:

  (FORWARD 100)
  (RIGHT 90)
  (PENUP)
  (FORWARD 10)

You can use parenthesis to force grouping, for instance when there's
optional arguments.  You can also use compound statements, and
essentially each function grabs as many arguments as it needs.  It also
happens to have infix operations as a sort of add-on, but you could
ignore that and Logo still has a lot of advantages (the infix can also
be confusing in terms of precedence).

The other detail is that quoted lists use [], so:

  REPEAT 100 [FORWARD 100 RIGHT 90]

is actually calling the function REPEAT (not a special form) with two
arguments, 100 and [FORWARD 100 RIGHT 90].  REPEAT could be implemented
as:

  TO REPEAT :N :EXPR
    IF :N > 1 [EVAL :EXPR REPEAT :N - 1 :EXPR]
  END

(Forgot to mention that variables have their own namespace and are
preceded with : -- this is necessary for the syntax to work as well)

The disadvantage to this is that the arity of the function needs to be
known before you can parse the statement.  Since most Logos are strictly
interpreted (not byte-compiled or anything) this isn't a problem.  A lot
of the same issues with optimization that exist for Tcl also exist for
Logo -- I actually think the languages are very similar (except Logo has
lists instead of Tcl's strings).  It also means it can be confusing,
because the reader can't parse the expression without knowledge of the
functions being used.  In that way it's vaguely like Forth...

Anyway, I think it's a novel solution to the parenthesis problem.  I
also think it's a language that deserves more attention -- in its
domain, I still think it's the most thoughtful and useful language out
there.  If Python wants to be used with the very young, it would do well
to take lessons from Logo (and Boxer, a semantically closer language
with some cool ideas).  In general Logo is a good language, though.

  Ian




From mwh at python.net  Fri Nov 15 06:30:14 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:30:14 GMT
Subject: Reverse dictionnary
References: <nkz4rajw3ln.fsf@pinel.shfj.cea.fr>
Message-ID: <7h34rajxedy.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Julien Barbot <barbot at shfj.cea.fr> writes:

> Does "reverse dictionnary" exists in python ?

No.  (At first I thought you meant reverse order, which makes no sense
as dictionaries have no order...)

> I would like to get a value with the key, and to get the key with the value
> For example:
> d1 = {1:"str1", 2:"str2" }
> 
> d1.getvalue(1) give me "str1"
> and 
> g1.getkey("str1") give me 1
> 
> With the result given as fast as normal dictionnaries.

No, and this can't really be done as values of a dictionary aren't
required to be hashable.  Or unique in the dict, for that matter.

> If this does not exists, I will simply do two dictionnaries, one with
> the integer as keys and the strings as values and the other one with
> the strings as keys and the intergers as values.

This is the best approach, I think.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
 Two decades later, well-known hacker Henry Spencer described the 
 Perl scripting language as a "Swiss-Army chainsaw", intending to 
 convey his evaluation of the language as exceedingly powerful but 
 ugly and noisy and prone to belch noxious fumes.   -- the jargon file


From Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 21 23:31:27 2002
From: Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com (Mark)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 04:31:27 GMT
Subject: Boost.Python sans Jam
Message-ID: <zqiD9.19233$We5.9390@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>

Hello all,

I'd like to use the product of Boost.Python (ie libboost_python and the 
necessary header files) without resorting to using jam as my comilation 
system (why?  I want to learn one thing at a time ... right now I'll focus 
on Boost.Python ... when I want to learn jam, I'll look at it).

Basically, I have set up a ~/include and ~/lib directory that have the 
requisite header and library files [note, these only hold the boost and 
boost.python headers and the boost.python libraries].  Everything else is 
in "standard" (insert joke here) or at least system wide locations.

Currently, if I try to compile hello.cpp (that is included in the 
boost.python distro), I get a number of unresolved symbols out of the 
libboost_python library (I did built the library with jam, but now I want 
to go to make ... once the library is built, it shouldn't make a 
difference).

My command line to compile hello.cpp looks like:
g++ hello.cpp -I/home/mfenner/include -I/usr/include/python2.2/ 
-L/usr/lib/python2.2/config -L/home/mfenner/lib -lpython2.2 -lboost_python 
-o hello.so

And I get errors:
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.2/../../../crt1.o: In function 
`_start':
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.2/../../../crt1.o(.text+0x18): 
undefined reference to `main'
/home/mfenner/lib/libboost_python.so: undefined reference to 
`PyErr_BadArgument'
/home/mfenner/lib/libboost_python.so: undefined reference to 
`PySequence_DelSlice'
<snip many, many more similar undefined reference errors>

What am I missing and/or what have I inappropriately included?

Regards,
Mark


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 17 05:03:58 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 10:03:58 GMT
Subject: Windows Nt directory names
References: <mailman.1037518284.21602.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar7pie$k8h$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:30:39 -0800 (PST), asdfasd asdfasdf <s802645999 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>--0-2059518693-1037518239=:31278
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>hi
>
>i wanted to execute a command somewhere in "program files" directory but can't seem to do it as it says : "c:\program" is not recognized as an internal command 
>
>i have used :
>
>import os
>
>CMD = r'c:\program files\action.exe'
>
>os.system(CMD)
>
>how do i code so that the space in "program files" is recognized?
>
>thanks

This format will probably make your python script wait until the other program exits:

 >>> CMD = r'"C:\Program Files\Windows NT\Accessories\wordpad.exe"'
 >>> os.system(CMD)
 0


This format uses start to run it separately:

 >>> CMD2= r'"start """C:\Program Files\Windows NT\Accessories\wordpad.exe""'
 >>> os.system(CMD2)
 0

The trick is in how double quotes get handled as the line is passed along.

CMD2 should be equivalent to typing

   start "C:\Program Files\Windows NT\Accessories\wordpad.exe"

at the console window prompt, unless I goofed ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From theller at python.net  Thu Nov  7 14:59:09 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 20:59:09 +0100
Subject: [Ann] ctypes
Message-ID: <65v9p2wi.fsf@python.net>

Daily Python-URL readers have already seen this (thanks, PythonWare),
but I've fixed some problems in the first release.


ctypes is a module allowing to create and manipulate C data types in
Python. These can then be passed to C-functions loaded from dynamic
link libraries.

This module is supposed to be a greatly enhanced and much more
complete replacement of Sam Rushing's calldll/npstruct/windll
modules. ctypes is not based on Sam's work, it has different roots.

It requires Python 2.2 or higher, since it makes intensive use of the
new type system.

----

It provides classes which can be used to create complicated C data
types, for example, those used in Windows type libraries.

Included is a facility to dynamically load DLLs, retrieve functions,
and call them. You can also call methods on COM objects.

Implemented are simple data types (int, char, string, and so on),
function pointers (callbacks), structures, unions, arrays, and
pointers.

ctypes uses win32 structured exception handling, to make it as safe as
possible, although it is clear that it's easy to crash the Python
interpreter.

The source distribution contains an extensive, although inclomplete,
tutorial (which you can also read online), as well as example scripts
demonstrating the use.

One of these scripts contains a dynamic Dispatch implementation, which
is used to drive MS word as an example.

----

ctypes is not yet complete, this is an early release, but IMO it is
already entirely usable. Just don't be too astonished if later
versions have a different behaviour or api.

Homepage: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes.html
License: BSD
Platform: Windows (32 bit Intel)

----

Have fun,

Thomas


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Sun Nov 24 01:42:30 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 06:42:30 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DE07539.2040905@nyc.rr.com>


Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:
>>Well the context of the "accessibility" thang was for newcomers, so the hairy
>>stuff would not affect them.
>>
> Of coure LOOP and FORMAT affect newcomers! They are extremely commonly used
> constructs, so you will encounter them quite frequently in other people's
> code.

<g> I'll try again. The context was newbies. It's no good sneaking in 
"expert" by talking about newbies possibly /starting/ by being handed 
expert code to, what, maintain? No way.

>>don't know perl, but the other side of the coin I did not mention is that the
>>data is strongly typed.
> 
> 
> Hmm, I thought untyped means that variables don't have any type associated
> with them at all (like in assembler).

variables untyped, /data/ typed: you can assign the data "123" to the 
variable AMOUNT and then backtrace (kersplat) when you (* amoount 
sales-tax-rate), cuz the data "123" even at runtime is recognized as a 
string:

 > (let ((amount "123")
         (tax 0.05))
     (* amount tax))
Error: `"123"' is not of the expected type `NUMBER'
[condition type: TYPE-ERROR]

>>Well, the battle was decided (temporarily?) in favor of static languages
>>during the long decades before systems routinely shipped with ghz processors
>>and hundreds mb ram. By the time those systems came along, almost everyone was
>>using static languages. Folks don't change easily, so CL still does not get
>>used widely.
> 
> This explanation has the considerable problem that it would equally have
> predicted the miserable failure of Perl, Python, Javascript and I'd guess
> Visual Basic.

Good point. Now consider the answer.

Why did Java start a stampede, when Lisp was sitting there already?

Well, first of all, everyone knew (and knows) Lisp is slow, interpreted, 
used only for AI, and dead. Not! But that does not matter, what matters 
is what people believe. Astonishing but true: I ignored for weeks during 
a search for "a better way than C++" the possibility of using Mac Common 
Lisp, tho it was in my APDA catalog every month and saw it lauded 
regularly on macdev. This in spite of the fact that I had prototyped my 
app in Logo!!! (years earlier). But I /knew/ Logo was slow (and I did 
not know CL had been thru the standards process and was now universally 
compiled and /fast/). But if a Logo user actively seeking a better way 
than C++ won't consider CL, why should someone happy with their C job do so?

But more importantly Java piggybacked the web excitement, offered C-ish 
syntax, memory management (huge if you've done C or C++), simplicity, 
and portability (I said "offered", not "delivered").

The C-ish syntax is huge. It removes a barrier to adoption. But I think 
the key was piggybacking the web excitement. Dylan is a Lisp with C 
syntax, it has not gotten very far.

JavaScript also rides the Web, of course. Browsers support it, they do 
not support Lisp. (duh)

VB? Puh-leez. They were a continuation of Basic, plus they had a little 
company from redmond behind them. That familiarity thang really matters.

Speaking of which, Dylan failed in its "Lisp in C's clothing" scam 
because just as they were ready to emerge from the lab, Sun came out 
with the Web language Java. I believe Apple (who sponsored Dylan's 
developemt) threw in the towel when they saw the "C++-Killer" role was 
taken.

How did Python succeed? I do not know the history of the early days, you 
tell me. I think being easily wired to C and thus a crap-load of 
existing libraries did not hurt, nor its being interactive, GCed, and 
free. I wager the huge win over Java was its scripting nature. bang a 
few lines into a text file and kick it off. Java ain't that simple, IIUC.

>>But the language upheaval I see (Java, Python, Perl, Ruby) tells me folks are
>>still looking for a better way, and as long as they are looking some are bound
>>to find there way to the mother of all interactive, dynamic languages.
>>
> Sure, if mum doesn't appear a bit grandmothered by then ;)

Lisp nearing the age of 50 is the most modern language out there. GC, 
dynamic, reflective, the best OO model extant including GFs, procedural 
macros, and the only thing old-fashioned about it is that it is compiled 
and fast.

You know, there are projects for Java to add macros, GFs, multiple 
inheritance...of course, you have to choose which because they are 
incompatible. tee-hee. Full marks to java tho for the GC and Reflection 
package. But it ain't no Lisp.

And isn't it curious that a language approaching fifty is the wannabe of 
all these new languages? That's a message from god, methinks.

> Well, it's not just "pragmatic advantages", I do believe that in some points
> python's *design* is just superior.

I do not think you want to go there. Hell, I doubt Pythonites even care. 
CL and Python are wholly different animals. i think a point by point 
comparison of Lisp and Python would be an exercise in futility (hence 
perfect for Usenet!) Python is extremely practical, CL is great purely 
as a language.

>>...to Python /precisely/ (a) to swim in a bigger pond (uh, pond with more
>>fish?) and (2) because there is (I hear) a x-platform GUI, TKinter. 
> 
> 
> As someone else already mentioned, having a look at pyqt if you can live with
> GPL might be worthwhile (not sure about Mac, Qt3 *does* run on macs, but don't
> whether the GPL version and python bindings are available), otherwise
> wxWindows might also be of interest (not sure how far the Mac support is,
> either, though). Tkinter has the advantage that it comes prebundled but pyqt
> sports a much nicer design and is infinitely more powerful. I also get the
> imporession that Tcl/Tk is somewhat moribund.

Thanks for the input. My little hack kinda offers its own GUI power, so 
to a degree I almost don't want a framework with a mind of its own, i 
just want low-level capabilities. And I /really/ want universality, so 
that will be the deciding factor.

>>And it's fun learning a new language, recommended so highly by a CL worthy
>>such as Norvig.
> 
> Ah, it's always good to see people broaden their minds ;)

<g> We'll see. So far I loathe the syntax (I (miss (parentheses))), but 
I dig the backdoors. And fer chrissakes, not even a lame C-like 
preprocessor?! :)

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov  8 02:17:03 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 08:17:03 +0100
Subject: Getting SSL certificate
References: <aeGy9.15988$6b.572415@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <m3smycjztc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Stuart D. Gathman" <stuart at bmsi.com> writes:

> The httplib modules supports SSL, but does not check certificates.  

It would, if you would pass key_file and cert_file arguments to
HTTPSConnection. Atleast theoretically; I doubt this has been tested
much.

> Furthermore, when playing with urllib, proxies don't seem to work with the
> https protocol.  It passes the "https://host.com" url to the proxy server,
> instead of using the proxy CONNECT request needed for SSL. Am I doing
> something wrong?

Can you please explain what the CONNECT request is? I have never heard
of it.

Regards,
Martin


From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 19:12:11 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:12:11 GMT
Subject: Nastiness with global vars. How do I avoid?
References: <pan.2002.11.27.21.03.24.346951@owl.me.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnauao1r.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Rich Daley <rich at DELETE_THISowl.me.uk> wrote:
> Hi all.

Hi yourself. :-)

> 
> I attach the beginnings of a piece of code which will become an ewtoo
><http://www.ewtoo.org> style chat room.
> 
> However, at the moment I use a global dictionary to hold the users' names,
> and I realise that as the code gets bigger and longer (and more Object
> Oriented) it's going to be harder and harder to maintain it this way.

Good thinking. Globals make for difficult code maintenance.

> Does anyone have any idea how I could use a Class instead to acheive the
> same functionality? Ideally I'd love to have classes for all the different
> kinds of methods and stuff too, but this is the most critical bit.
> 
> I'm not sure I made sense, so please ask me if this doesn't make sense...
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help!
> 
> ~ Rich
> 
> 
> ------BEGIN CODE main.py------

Right. Let's get to work. *rolls up sleeves*

> #!/usr/bin/python
> import SocketServer,socket,string,time
> 
> users = {}
> 
> class TalkRequestHandler(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
>     def handle(self):
>         global users

At this point I'm wondering why you don't just make this an instance
variable, like so:

class TalkRequestHandler(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    def __init__(self):
        SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler.__init__(self) # Call parent first
        self.users = {}

    def some_func_that_uses_the_users_var(self):
        if self.users.has_key('foo'):
            print 'Ah ha!'


OK, back to your code.

>         self.user_connect()
>         stillhere = 1
>         while 1:
>             if not stillhere: break
>             msg = self.request.recv(1024)
>             if not msg: break
>             stillhere = self.process(msg)

You could save a line of code by moving one of those tests:

        while 1:
            msg = self.request.recv(1024)
            if not msg: break
            stillhere = self.process(msg)
            if not stillhere: break

This would allow you to avoid setting stillhere outside your while loop,
which feels cleaner to me.

>         self.user_disconnect()
>         
>     def user_connect(self):
>         global users
>         self.send_user_unterminated('Enter your name: ')
>         name = self.request.recv(1024)
>         self.name = name.strip()
>         if not self.name.isalpha():
>             self.send_user('Sorry, name must be only letters')
>             return
>         if users.has_key(self.name):
>             self.send_user('Sorry, name in use')
>             return
>         self.send_all('+++ '+self.name+' connected!')
>         users[self.name] = self.request
>         self.look()

So far I don't see any problems with using an instance variable instead
of a global.

> 
>     def user_disconnect(self):
>         global users
>         del(users[self.name])
>         self.send_all('--- '+self.name+' disconnected!')
> 
>     def send_user(self,msg):
>         self.request.send(msg + '\n')
> 
>     def send_user_unterminated(self,msg):
>         self.request.send(msg)
> 
>     def send_all(self,msg):
>         for user in users:
>             users[user].send(msg + '\n')
> 
>     def process(self,msg):
>         command = ""
>         args = ""
>         if msg[0].isalpha():
>             command_completed = 0
>             for char in msg:
>                 if (not command_completed):
>                     if char.isalpha(): command += char
>                     else:
>                         command_completed = 1
>                         args += char
>                 else: args += char
>         else:
>             command_completed = 0
>             for char in msg:
>                 if (not command_completed):
>                     if char.isalpha() or char.isspace():
>                         command_completed = 1
>                         args += char
>                     else: command += char
>                 else: args += char
>         
>         command = command.strip().lower()
>         args = args.strip()

This looks unnecesasrily complicated and error-prone. I couldn't grok
its purpose on my first reading or even my second reading. Therefore,
six months from now when you come back to maintain this code, you won't
be able to understand it either. You need some comments here. Always
remember: write your code as if it's going to be read by a stranger --
because six months from now, that stranger will be you!

If I understand what you're doing correctly, you're trying to grab the
first token you find into command and the rest of the string into args.
This might be a place where you want to use regexps. As fond as I am of
quoting that Jamie Zawinski quote, sometimes regexps have their uses.

The quote I'm referring to, by the way, is:

    Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use
    regular expressions." Now they have two problems.

Here, I think you want something like this:

        if msg[0].isalpha():
            pattern = re.compile(r'^([a-zA-Z]+)([^a-zA-Z].*)$')
            result = pattern.match(msg)
            command = result.group(1)
            args = result.group(2)
        else:
            pattern = re.compile(r'^([^a-zA-Z ]+)([a-zA-Z ].*)$')
            result = pattern.match(msg)
            command = result.group(1)
            args = result.group(2)

However, I would recommend making a small change: instead of accepting
only alphabetic characters as commands, accept alphanumerics (letters,
numbers and underscores). This will make your regular expressions even
easier to read, since there's a shorthand:

        if msg[0].isalphanum():
            pattern = re.compile(r'^(\w+)(\W.*)$')
            result = pattern.match(msg)
            command = result.group(1)
            args = result.group(2)
        else:
            pattern = re.compile(r'^([^\w\s]+)([\w\s].*)$')
            result = pattern.match(msg)
            command = result.group(1)
            args = result.group(2)

This is even easier to read and understand: \w means an alphanumeric
character (see http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/re-syntax.html) and
\W means anything non-alphanumeric. \s means whitespace, \S means
anything non-whitespace.

But this is still wrong, since it requires at least one character to
follow the command, which might not be the case if the command is, for
example, "who". So:

        if msg[0].isalphanum():
            pattern = re.compile(r'^(\w+)(.*)$')
            result = pattern.match(msg)
            command = result.group(1)
            args = result.group(2)
        else:
            pattern = re.compile(r'^([^\w\s]+)(.*)$')
            result = pattern.match(msg)
            command = result.group(1)
            args = result.group(2)

This takes advantage of the fact that regular expression wildcards (like
+ and *) are "greedy" -- they will match as much as possible. So if the
whole of msg matches the first part of the pattern, then the second part
will be empty. But that's OK, since the * match means 0 or more. Thus,
args will be an empty string, which is what you would want.

My own rule of thumb for whether a regular expression is the right tool
for the job: if you can understand the regexp within about 15 seconds,
use it. Otherwise, look for a way to simplify it. This regexp is
understandable within 5 seconds, so it's O.K.

> 
>         #self.send_user("Command: "+ command+" Args: "+args)
>                     
>         if command == "'" or command == '"' or command == 'say':
>             self.say(args)
>         elif command == ';' or command == ':' or command == 'emote':
>             self.send_all(self.name+" "+args)
>         elif command == '~' or command == 'think':
>             self.send_all(self.name+" thinks . o O ( "+args+ " )")
>         elif command == ')' or command == 'sing':
>             self.send_all(self.name+" sings o/~ "+args+" o/~")
>         elif command == 'hug':
>             self.hug(args)
>         elif command == 'who':
>             self.who()
>         elif command == 'look':
>             self.look()
>         elif command == 'quit':
>             self.send_user('Thanks for visiting! Come back soon!')
>             return 0
>         else: self.send_user("I don't know how to "+command+
>                              ". I'm sorry but I'm very primitive.")
>         return 1

Ah, the good old if..elif..else block. A sign of someone who wants to
write a switch() statement and doesn't know about the more elegant
alternatives, like (for example) dispatcher functions:

    def do_say(self, args):
        self.say(args)

    def do_emote(self, args):
        self.send_all(self.name+" "+args)

    def do_think(self, args):
        self.send_all(self.name+" thinks . o O ( "+args+ " )")

    def do_sing(self, args):
        self.send_all(self.name+" sings o/~ "+args" o/~")

    def do_hug(self, args):
        self.hug(args)

    def do_who(self, args):
        self.who(args)

    def do_look(self, args):
        self.look(args)

    def do_quit(self, args):
        self.send_user('Thanks for visiting! Come back soon!')
        raise QuitException

    def do_ERROR(self, args):
        self.send_user("I don't know how to "+command+
                       ". I'm sorry but I'm very primitive.")
        raise UnknownCommand

    def dispatch(self, command, args):
        command = command.lower()
        special_cases = {
            "'": do_say,
            '"': do_say,
            ';': do_emote,
            ':': do_emote,
            '~': do_think,
            ')': do_sing
        }
        try:
            if special_cases.has_key(command):
                special_cases[command](args)
            elif hasattr(self, 'do_' + command):
                getattr(self, 'do_' + command)(args)
            else:
                self.do_ERROR(args)
        except QuitException:
            return 0
        except UnknownCommand:
            return 1


This approach has the added advantage that when you want to add a new
command, you don't need to touch the dispatch() function. All you have
to do is add a new do_whatever() method and voila!

> 
>     def look(self):

Actually, instead of my stub-like do_look() above, just change this
function to be called do_look(), make sure it accepts two arguments
(self and args) even though you won't be using args, and now you have a
function that's really to be called from the dispatcher.

>         global users

Still no reason not to use an instance variable here.

>         lookstr = "Welcome to Talk! This talker is in very early stages\n"
>         lookstr += "of development, and as a result it's pretty crap.\n"
>         lookstr += "Please, take a look around though :)\n\n"
>         if len(users) == 1:
>             lookstr += "You're on your own here :(\n"
>         else:
>             i = 0
>             userstr = ""
>             for user in users:
>                 if user != self.name:
>                     i += 1
>                     userstr += user + "\n"
>             lookstr += "You are here with the following " + `i` + " people:\n"
>             lookstr += userstr
>         self.send_user(lookstr)
> 
>     def who(self):
>         global users
>         whostring = "---WHO---\n"
>         for user in users:
>             whostring += user + "\n"
>         whostring += "---------"
>         self.send_user(whostring)
> 
>     def say(self,line):
>         if line.endswith('?'):
>             self.send_all(self.name+" asks '"+ line + "'")
>         elif line.endswith('!'):
>             self.send_all(self.name+" exclaims '"+ line + "'")
>         else:
>             self.send_all(self.name+" says '"+ line + "'")
> 
>     def hug(self,user):
>         global users
>         if user.lower() in map(string.lower,users.keys()):
>             self.send_all("* "+self.name+" extends arms and hugs "+user)
>         else: self.send_user("No user called "+user+" logged in")
> 
> class TalkServer (SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer):
>     pass
> 
> addr = ('0.0.0.0', 4321)
> 
> TalkServer.allow_reuse_address = 1
> 
> server = TalkServer(addr, TalkRequestHandler)
> 
> server.serve_forever()
> ------END CODE main.py------

I'm running out of time here, so I'll stop my comments. I hope this has
helped you get some ideas for writing cleaner, more maintainable code.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From mike at frcatel.fri.utc.sk  Fri Nov  8 10:23:54 2002
From: mike at frcatel.fri.utc.sk (Michal Kaukic)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:23:54 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <aqggps$d43$1@trumpet.uni-mannheim.de>
Message-ID: <E18AAzC-0003BW-00@frcatel.fri.utc.sk>

> Hi,
> 
> Python comes with a set of really usefull libraries, so you can do many 
> interesting things easily.  For many people this more than compensates for 
> its slow execution time (compared to compiled common lisp).  Open-source 
> libraries for common lisp are rare.  Scheme doesn't even define how a 
> "library" should look like.
> 
> A second reason for Python's popularity might be that the Python community 
> is particularly friendly towards beginners.
> 

It seems to me that Lush (http://lush.sourceforge.net) has the potential to be really useful. 
And, the developers mention "bindings to the JavaVM API and to the Python C API"
(as I can see, this is yet not here, but things are rapidly changing in CVS everyday).
The symbiosis of Lisp and Python can be very interesting...


                                                    Mike

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michal Kaukic                                  (mike at frcatel.fri.utc.sk)         
Dept. of Math. Methods, Fac. of Manag. & Informatics
University of Zilina,   Slovak Republic





From dgemic at nospam.net  Tue Nov 12 20:07:14 2002
From: dgemic at nospam.net (Drazen Gemic)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 02:07:14 +0100
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
References: <mailman.1037072595.23496.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD1A5C2.5070707@nospam.net>

Terence Ng wrote:
> Could someone provide me an HTML email marketing

Email marketing is not enough, it has to be HTML email marketing.

                            DG



From slaven.rezic at berlin.de  Tue Nov 12 16:21:49 2002
From: slaven.rezic at berlin.de (Slaven Rezic)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 22:21:49 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DD11E7F.C12E708A@man.ac.uk> <LRaA9.1325$J55.292310@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>
Message-ID: <87pttao55e.fsf@vran.herceg.de>

Neil Madden <nem00u at cs.nott.ac.uk> writes:

> Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> 
> <snip interesting discussion, which mostly goes over my head :>
> 
> > 
> > BTW, how does Parrot handle calls to foreign code?  The docs I've seen are on
> > the hazy side, and integration with existing C, C++ and FORTRAN monoliths is
> > (alas) all too important in particularly commercial development.
> > 
> 
> On this particular point; has anyone thought of writing a unified C-API for Tcl, 
> Perl, Python, Ruby, (Java) etc? What I mean by this is that each of these 
> languages can be extended in C, and quite often are. Also, whenever I see 
> interesting new C/C++ libraries implemented, I also tend to see seperate 
> language bindings for each of these languages. This seems like a massive 
> duplication of effort. Would it be possible to abstract over the C API's of 
> these languages to a common core of functionality which all share (e.g. getting 
> an interpreter handle, registering a command, setting a variable etc)? I have 
> only dealt with Tcl's C interface, so this may be too difficult, but it seems 
> like it would be a huge step forward.

Look at
	http://www.swig.org/

Regards,
	Slaven

-- 
Slaven Rezic - slaven.rezic at berlin.de
Tired of using file selectors? Real programmers use the TAB key for
completion and not for jumping around. Try
	http://search.cpan.org/search?mode=module&query=Tk::PathEntry


From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Nov 18 18:45:55 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:45:55 -0500
Subject: Will python binaries compiled on vs.net?
In-Reply-To: <VjdC9.14331$nK4.35697@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEPKCMAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Mark Hammond]
> I simply like the VC6 UI better.  I have a full VC7 installed here, but
> never use it.

Excellent!  You just volunteered to build the Python VC7 distribution --
thanks <wink>.




From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Nov 21 13:00:43 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 18:00:43 GMT
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <arfgtg$fhj$1@Fourier.suse.de> <7kf83526.fsf@python.net> <95959723.0211201844.7ce3458@posting.google.com> <1037851388.29783@yasure> <lm3nupug.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <arj70b$1670$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Thomas Heller <theller at python.net>:
| "Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> writes:
...
|> Why are there multiple thread states, then?  If we might as well just
|> use the existing state of any thread, it seems like we are put to a
|> lot of trouble to hunt one up.
|
| The thread state is, well, the state of a thread. So at least they
| cannot be shared across threads.

Right.

| I had multiple other schemes saving thread states when calling out to
| C from Python, and getting thread states when calling back into Python
| from C, including stacks of thread states in thread local storage.
| Some of them worked, some were fragile.

I'm fortunate to have an object associated with each thread in the API
I'm working with (BeOS), and all the API callback functions are naturally
endowed with the ability to find that object, so that's where my thread
state is.  If it were otherwise, I might have been tempted to develop a
thread:state database.

| Second, profiling and setting breakpoints won't work across callouts
| and callins because the profiling and tracing is done with objects
| stored in the thread state itself, and creating a new one doesn't
| inherit them from the saved state. This also affects exceptions, which
| are not propagated back into the 'callout' from the 'callin'.
|
| Hm, can anyone understand the last sentence?
| What I mean is: When an exception occurs in the callback (which runs
| with a newly created thread state), simply PyErr_Print() is called
| before the thread state is deleted, because there's no way to pass
| the exception somewhere else.

I can understand it - but alas, have no idea for a solution.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From ivalladt at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 04:22:38 2002
From: ivalladt at yahoo.com (Ismael Valladolid Torres)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:22:38 GMT
Subject: Syntax Error, help a newbie
Message-ID: <yhqy9.357108$nc1.2573154@telenews.teleline.es>

Hi,

I am a newbie to python. I am in need of executing a setup script which is
written in this language.

self._services = [ s for s in self._services: if s._name != '$removed$' ]
                               ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

I can't figure out what is the mistake in this sentence. Any help will be
very useful. Thanks.

Regards, Ismael

PS. Red Hat Linux 7.2 running python-1.5.2-38




From codeguru at hp.com  Wed Nov 13 17:57:49 2002
From: codeguru at hp.com (djw)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:57:49 -0800
Subject: calendar modules
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10211132330540.12310-100000@sparc41.ee.cuhk.edu.hk> <slrnat4sfj.19g.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <7396d2b2.0211131136.160ee567@posting.google.com> <aquat8$l2q$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <aqulbc$1qg$1@news.vcd.hp.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On 13 Nov 2002 11:36:11 -0800, d_blade8 at hotmail.com (Lemniscate) wrote:
>
>
> >Absolutely correct.  However, you can save a teensy bit of typing by
> >using prmonth instead.  For example:
> >
> >
> >>>>calendar.prmonth(1976, 10)
> >
> >   October 1976
> >Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
> >               1  2
> >3  4  5  6  7  8  9
> >10 11 12 13 14 15 16
> >17 18 19 20 21 22 23
> >24 25 26 27 28 29 30
> >31
> >
> >btw, I set the deafult first weekday to Sunday.
> >
> >>>>calendar.setfirstweekday(6)
> >
> >Have fun,
> >
>
> I tried. But checking the day of the week I was born
> didn't work. This calendar seems limited to >= 1970-01-01
> ;-(
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

1/1/1970 == "UNIX Epoch"



From Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com  Mon Nov 11 13:15:00 2002
From: Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:15:00 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de>
Message-ID: <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>

Pascal Costanza wrote:

> >>>(funcall '+ 1 1 1)
...
> >>>(funcall '* 2 3)
...
> > You mean (funcall #'+ 1 1 1) and (funcall #'* 2 3).
>  
>  No, (funcall '+ 1 1 1) works as well (as defined by the ANSI specs).

Yes, but identifying functions with the symbols that name them
at run time is generally reckoned bad Lisp style.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan  Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com
.sig under construc


From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Fri Nov  8 06:51:51 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 04:51:51 -0700
Subject: Approach to Python extension with C++
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192017746B8@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Nicholas Yue 
> 
> I have a need to write Python interfaces to some commercial 
> libraries that are available on Windows and Linux.
> 
> I have read about the steps to do that in Mark Hammond's 
> Python Programming book and have also read the extending 
> Python in the Python Essential Reference (first version).
> 
> I am attempting to write the interface in a cross platform 
> manner, is the use of Setup.in and compile.py the way to go.
> 
> I am using ActiveState Python 2.2.2 on Windows and probably 
> 2.0/2.1/2.2 on Linux. I am writing the interface code in C++.
> 
> What is your advice?

Save yourself a _lot_ of time and effort by using one of the existing
wrapper generators like SIP, SWIG, or Boost.Python. Having used all
three for major projects I prefer Boost.Python (for most complete
support of C++ and Python features, and excellent support) If your
interface is simple enough either one will do.

-- bjorn



From toure_bomoko at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 08:47:19 2002
From: toure_bomoko at yahoo.co.uk (Toure Bomoko)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 05:47:19 -0800
Subject: Tkinter and event loops
References: <9c85402f.0211221438.7afb90af@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9c85402f.0211240547.2dfb01d0@posting.google.com>

> ...periodically updating the GUI...

Ah, eventually I found the "update()" and "update_idletasks()" methods,

Toure


From smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org  Fri Nov  1 15:11:39 2002
From: smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org (Jacob Smullyan)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 15:11:39 -0500
Subject: HTMLgen replacment module
References: <3dc0f443$0$4714@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <mailman.1036180442.21868.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnas5nvm.cev.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>

In article <mailman.1036180442.21868.python-list at python.org>, Ian Bicking wrote:
  <someone else wrote:>
>>     I am looking for an HTML generation package.
> I wrote a very small HTML generator (*very* small) that I use for
> generating HTML fragments in a project of mine:
> 
>   http://funformkit.sourceforge.net/FunFormKit/SimpleHTMLGen.py

Another simple alternative:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/skunkweb/skunkweb/pylibs/ecs/

To use it you also need this module:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/skunkweb/skunkweb/pylibs/xmlutils.py?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup

jacob smullyan


From costanza at web.de  Mon Nov 11 05:17:22 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:17:22 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de>

Carl Banks wrote:
> Pascal Costanza wrote:
> [snip]
> 
>>Now, let's go on - "funcall" takes a function and applies it to the 
>>remaining arguments.
>>
>>>(funcall '+ 1 1 1)
>>
>>3
>>
>>>(funcall '* 2 3)
>>
>>6
> 
> You mean (funcall #'+ 1 1 1) and (funcall #'* 2 3).

No, (funcall '+ 1 1 1) works as well (as defined by the ANSI specs).

>>...and so on. Now here is another nice macro.
>>
>>(defmacro apply-operators (op-list arg-list)
>>    `(loop for op in ',op-list
>>           do (format t " ~A: ~A~%" op (funcall op , at arg-list))))
> 
> 
> It is better to do this as a function.  As written, you cannot pass a
> in built-up list of operators or numbers, and for this reason, it is
> considered bad style.

Yes, you're right. I wanted to illustrate the usefulness of macros and 
the advantages of prefix notation at the same time. I should have kept 
that separate.

Here's the function version.

(defun apply-operators (op-list arg-list)
    (loop for op in op-list
          do (format t " ~A: ~A~%" op (apply op arg-list))))

The difference between funcall and apply is as follows.

 > (funcall '+ 5 6 7)
18

 > (apply '+ '(5 6 7))
18

apply takes the parameters as a list and furthermore requires a 
parameter list, whereas in funcall parameters are optional.

The call to apply-operators now looks as follows.

 > (apply-operators '(+ * min max) '(5 4 6 3 7))
  +: 25
  *: 2520
  min: 3
  max: 7

>>(loop for op in '(+ * min max)
>>      do (format t " ~A: ~A~%" op (funcall op 5 4 6 3 7)))
> 
> I really don't think this is the best example for an advantage of Lisp
> syntax, if that's what you were trying to do, since it's trivial in
> Python also.
> 
> def apply_operators(oplist,arglist)
>     for op in oplist:
>         print "%s: %s" % (op.__name__, reduce(op,arglist))
> 
> The only technical advantage of Lisp's syntax I can think of is that
> it matches the way the compiler sees it, which is why it's so
> convenient to write macros (which are more or less extensions of the
> compiler).

Yes, that's exactly the key point. Lisp's central feature is that code 
and data are the same, and Lisp's syntax, or better lack of syntax, lets 
you exploit this central feature in the most convenient way. That's why 
Lispers typically reject other more mainstream syntaxes. (But there are 
exceptions - see the loop syntax above. BTW, loop is a macro!)

However, please note that I am not advocating that Common Lisp is 
generally better than Python. I don't like language advocacy. (I am not 
giving these examples in order to convince you that Lisp is better.) If 
you don't need Lisp's expressive power then you are probably better off 
with Python. On the other hand, from what I've seen so far, Python is 
quite close to Lisp, so you have a big advantage in case you're 
interested in widening your horizon and actually taking a look at Lisp.


Pascal

-- 
Pascal Costanza               University of Bonn
mailto:costanza at web.de        Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de  R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)



From news at titanic.co.uk  Sat Nov  9 10:32:27 2002
From: news at titanic.co.uk (Simon Faulkner)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 15:32:27 +0000
Subject: mounting a floppy
Message-ID: <9n8qsug5ubc9kvu9qvssvli931vqq7m8mh@4ax.com>

I have written a CGI web frontend for a little system

I need to mount a floppy, write a file to it, unmount the floppy

Only root can do this and  I don't want to run Apache as root!

Any ideas?


Simon


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Nov  4 12:57:43 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 18:57:43 +0100
Subject: PyXML pickle problem with PyXML0.8.1
References: <slrnasdc20.snj.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>
Message-ID: <j4vg3d2p60.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Jacob Smullyan <smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org> writes:

> I recklessly upgraded to PyXML 0.8.1 and found that
> xml.dom.minidom.Document instances are now no longer pickleable,
> because they define __slots__ without defining __getstate__.  Other
> classes in minidom do support pickling, but not Document.  Is there a
> reason for this? 

For what specifically? For defining __slots__? Performance, in
particular by saving the memory for the additional dictionary.  For
not including __getstate__? No, that's a bug.

Notice that Document specifically does *not* define __slots__. Most
likely, you ran into an instance of NamedNodeMap.

> I think this is just a bug, best recorded on PyXML's bug tracker, but
> in case someone wants to argue that it isn't, I thought I'd give them
> an opportunity.  

It's certainly a bug - although a patch would be appreciated over a
bug report :-) If possible, arrange it so that it will have a
__getattr__ only in Python 2.2 and newer, by coming up with some magic
in minicompat.

Regards,
Martin


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Nov 21 05:55:13 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:55:13 +0000
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <arfgtg$fhj$1@Fourier.suse.de>
 <7kf83526.fsf@python.net> <95959723.0211201844.7ce3458@posting.google.com>
 <1037851388.29783@yasure>
Message-ID: <7vOf8XARuL39EwBN@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <1037851388.29783 at yasure>, Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com>
writes
>Quoth hansgeunsmeyer at earthlink.net (hg):
>...
>| As far as I understand it, it doesn't really matter _what_ the thread
>| state is that you swap into the current state before you do the
>| callback, as long as it is _some_ valid thread state (not NULL). So,
>| before you do the callback, at any moment when you're in the main
>| Python thread, you could store a pointer to the then current
>| threadstate.
>
>Why are there multiple thread states, then?  If we might as well just
>use the existing state of any thread, it seems like we are put to a
>lot of trouble to hunt one up.
>
>       Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com

I guess we're talking cross purposes somewhat. There are different types
of call back, but consider only two kinds synchronous and asynchronous. 

I believe for the synchronous case we can argue that in a multithread
environment the callback should not be allowed to run in a different
thread. 

On windows at least Thomas' test_enumwindows.py can be easily extended
to multithread and the results indicate that ctypes is preserving the
thread correctly in this case. (see test code below)

The problem then is that Don's more general (presumably asynchronous)
case is not obviously supported.  I assume that the callback wrapper
embeds a threadstate somehow, but there's no way to set it to 'any'.

####### hacked to use multiple threads
# from Paul Moore via comp.lang.python
import thread, time
from ctypes import windll, CFunction, c_string
user32 = windll.user32

mutex = thread.allocate_lock()
count = 0

class EnumWindowsProc(CFunction):
    _types_ = "ii"
    _stdcall_ = 1

def DisplayWindow(hwnd, lparam, where=None):
    title = c_string('\000' * 256)
    user32.GetWindowTextA(hwnd, title, 255)
    num = thread.get_ident()
    time.sleep(0.000001)        # Let other threads run
    print >>where, "Thread%d: hwnd=%08x title=%s" % (num,hwnd, repr(title.value))
    print "Thread%d: hwnd=%08x title=%s" % (num,hwnd, repr(title.value))

def run(num=0):
    where = open('/tmp/test_enumwindows_out_%d.txt' % num,'w')
    user32.EnumWindows(EnumWindowsProc(lambda x,y,where=where: DisplayWindow(x,y,where)), 0)
    mutex.acquire()
    global count
    count += 1
    mutex.release()
    print 'Thread%d num=%d finished!' % (thread.get_ident(), num)

N=5
for num in xrange(N):
    thread.start_new_thread(run,(num,))

#spin wait
while 1:
    if mutex.acquire(0):
        if count==N:
            print 'Done!'
            mutex.release()
            break
        mutex.release()
    time.sleep(0.001)       # Let other threads run

-- 
Robin Becker


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 21 16:51:39 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:51:39 -0800
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org> <3DDB3373.2578CEC0@alcyone.com> <BaGcnQynO5m2VEagXTWc3Q@comcast.com> <3DDC1874.F72E2B35@alcyone.com> <xQWdnY8p3JLag0CgXTWcog@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3DDD556B.3936A6AE@alcyone.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> Ok, you are 'proposing' that extra magic is *possible*, that it
> *could* be added,  or rather, have been added from the beginning.

Yes.

> Given that we all know that anything programmable could be done, the
> above does not say anything.

I was simply pointing that it was not beyond the realm of possibility to
have it behave as most newbies expect.  The reason it's done the way it
is is because it's the simplest implementation; there really aren't any
higher, more laudable goals involved.

When someone asks, "Why does it work this way?" the answer is, "It could
have been done other ways, but it was done this way because it was the
simplest to implement, and it's too late to change now."  That's all I
said; I simply gave another outline for another behavior that it _could_
have been, but _isn't_ and _won't_.

> I thought you were saying something more
> (ie, that there is a plausibly good and not just possible
> alternative).

Nitpicking aside, it is easy to turn the simply suggestion I gave into a
well-defined and easily implementable approach.  You can even do it with
relatively little change:  As now, stow off a unique instance of each
default argument as Python already does.  When it comes time to use one
(i.e., the function is called and one of those arguments is not
supplied), make a copy (via copy.copy, or copy.deepcopy if you prefer)
of the default argument and use _that_ instead of the original unique
object.  Voila, problem solved.

Am I suggesting this be done?  No.  Would it help newbies get over that
hump that everyone new to Python seems to bump into at least once? 
Maybe; I don't know.  Is it worth doing now?  No, because the current
behavior is so well-entrenched, good or bad.

Can you nitpick this further?  I'll wager you can.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ One rainy day / Chivalry walked up to me
\__/ Des'ree
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From richie at entrian.com  Tue Nov 12 04:02:35 2002
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 01:02:35 -0800
Subject: Python Browser Applets
References: <mailman.1036618569.11393.python-list@python.org> <P5qy9.22663$5u4.69909@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <8a6ba1da.0211080149.69190c08@posting.google.com> <_nNy9.28078$5u4.84947@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <8a6ba1da.0211120102.4f6c949b@posting.google.com>

[Neil]
> ActiveState use Scintilla wrapped by a Mozilla plugin in their Komodo
> IDE. The plugin works on Win32 and Linux/X. It is not open source. I was one
> of the developers and it was not as simple as I expected although some of
> that may have been due to the immaturity of Mozilla.

That's a shame.  An open source Scintilla plug-in would be fantastic.

> If you have a recent Java installed there is a technology demonstration
> of a code editor component written in Java at
> http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/nhodgson/SwedeDemo.html

Impressive!  (It crashed my browser on the first attempt, but I'm happy
to blame Sun for that 8-)

The SinkWorld website is somewhat vague about licensing - any chance of
this editor being open source?

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com


From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Sun Nov 10 19:36:23 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:36:23 +1100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <200211111136.24147.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:53, Carl Banks wrote:
> Oleg wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
> > between Python and Common Lisp (
> > http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> > wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
>
> As cool as Lisp is, it is too low-level, too hard to learn, too
> weird-looking, and way too different from C (at all levels) to gain
> much popularity.
I don't think that this is it. 

If "low-level", "hard to learn" and "too weird looking" were real problems, 
then C wouldn't be popular.

The real reasons that languages become popular are:
1. Availability of teaching resources and materials (affects usage in teaching 
institutions, and vaguely related places, such as universities). Includes 
teacher familiarity.
2. Availability of useful tools, especially libraries (affects design choices 
based on programmer productivity). Also includes development environments.
3. Usage in prior products (affects maintenance costs).
4. Ability to interface with bespoke infrastructure (especially web services 
and databases)
5. Community support.
and perhaps:
6. Performance.

If anyone has an example of a language that is popuilar without any of those 
characteristics, I'd be interested.

I am not familiar with Lisp, but I perceive that it has problems with 2,3,4 
and 5. Python only has problems with 3 (and perhaps 1).

I'm not really familiar with Perl either, but I think Python is better at 5 - 
I'm certainly amazed at the tolerance people have for questions that are 
readily answered in a number of on-line tutorials, and in both the Python 
books that I have (Learning Python and the Python Cookbook). In the end, the 
friendly attitude may be the killer feature.

Brad
- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Mon Nov 11 03:28:03 2002
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:28:03 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqlos7$66p$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <qpwz9.16127$oC3.1394670@news010.worldonline.dk> <3dce96ad$0$12451$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> <3DCEB61A.EF3D8E05@alcyone.com> <3DCEBA43.941F62A2@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3dcf6a25$0$35901$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk>

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> Evidently, Chaitin's usage of the term was non-standard; some Google
> research reveals that m-expressions are _not_ simply
> s-expressions-without-unambiguous-parentheses:
> 
> http://www.not-compatible.org/LISP/QA/mexpr.html
> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EmExpressions

Thanks, esp. the Wiki has got the goods.  Including a link to
http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/history/lisp/lisp.html
where McCarthys tells the history of LISP.  A fascinating read - like
when they invented garbage collection because they didn't have enough
spare bits for reference counting in the IBM 704 machine word ;)

on-a-64-bit-machine-would-McCarthy-have-invented-Python-instead?-ly y'rs,
Anders




From claird at lairds.com  Mon Nov 25 14:50:46 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:50:46 -0000
Subject: stupid Python/database connection
References: <4cce07d5.0211250918.5c97a929@posting.google.com> <f9tE9.53574$744.1962046@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <uu4vomm2t3bgd5@corp.supernews.com>

In article <f9tE9.53574$744.1962046 at news1.tin.it>,
Alex Martelli  <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>animeshk wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>> I have seen some Python code for interfacing with a database, and it
>> seems to depend on the import statement.  import some-lib-or-another
>> to access one kind of database, import some-other-lib-or-another to
>> access another kind of database.  After the import, it's a matter of
>> calling that database type's "connect" statement.
>> 
>> So . . . how can the decision of what-database-to-use be defferred to
>> runtime?  When writing, say, a BDE app in Delphi, it would be a simple
>> matter of what alias to use.  How is this done in Python?
>
>The general Pythonic way to do that would be, e.g.:
			.
			.
			.
>In this case, you may want to wrap things better than this, since
>differences in SQL dialects and so on do most often need to be smoothed
>away (sigh).  But if conditional import and connect calls are all
>you want, that's one way you can get them.
>
>
>Alex
>

Another way:  use the ODBC accesses available for both Interbase and Oracle.

Yet another way:  if the Interbase and Oracle interfaces don't already con-
form to <URL: http://www.python.org/topics/database/DatabaseAPI-2.0.html >,
you could upgrade them, or hire someone to do so on your behalf.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 10 13:29:54 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:29:54 GMT
Subject: Best way to "flush" incoming socket data?
Message-ID: <CAxz9.46823$Lg2.13206046@news2.news.adelphia.net>

I have a simple Python script that connects to various TCP servers that use
string commands.  Some of them print a banner upon connection some don't.
For the ones that send me a banner string upon connect, what's the best way
to clear out the banner from the receive queue?  Currently I do:

# set timeout value using Timothy O' Malley's timeoutsocket module
#  to something real small.
timeoutsocket.SetDefaultSocketTimeout(3)
dump_banner = sock.recv(1024) # flush banner if any.

# restore default socket timeout to something reasonable
timeoutsocket.SetDefaultSocketTimeout(20)

However, is there another way to flush the receive buffer so I don't have to
waste 3 seconds waiting for a possibly non-existent banner?

thx








From teaandbikkie at aol.com  Sun Nov 24 10:03:38 2002
From: teaandbikkie at aol.com (TeaAndBikkie)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 15:03:38 GMT
Subject: using del() to 'unimport'
References: <918bc22f.0211240425.68b8c282@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021124100338.29397.00000085@mb-cb.aol.com>

>From: donnal at donnal.net  (Donnal Walter)
>
>When the the following module is imported, I want only 'MyClass' (NOT
>'Useful' and 'Mixin1') to be publicly accessible.
>
>======= mymodule.py ==================
>from utilities import Useful, Mixin1
>
>class MyClass(Useful, Mixin1): pass
>
>del(Useful)
>del(Mixin1)
>======================================

One alternative is not to import the names in the first place, eg.

import utilities
class MyClass(utilities.Useful, utilities.Mixin1): pass

Then you would only have "utilites" in the main namespace.

--Misha



From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 12:44:12 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:44:12 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Jens Axel S?gaard <usenet at jasoegaard.dk> wrote:
> Oleg wrote:
>> I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
>> between Python and Common Lisp (
>> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
>> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
> 
> Perhaps this scenario is common:
> 
>    Functional languages such as ML is introduced in semantics.
>    Semantics is hard.
> 
>    Students think "ML is hard".
> 
> Later students are told "You can use Scheme/Lisp as a functional
> programming language.
> 
>    They think: "Scheme/Lisp is hard - and why all the ()'s?".
> 
> 
> Is this far fetched?

Not really. It wasn't my experience, but it was pretty close. We jumped
right in with Lisp. So we were learning a new style of programming,
functional programming, which we had to wrap our brains around. At the
same time, we were dealing with a syntax that *needs* help from a good
editor to be readable -- which is something the prof didn't explain well
enough. And even those who were using a good editor (I was using xemacs,
which had color highlighting) didn't know how to use it well. It keeps on
changing my indentation level! Why is it doing that?! If I'd known
enough to trust the editor's decision about indentation, I would have
done a bit better, but I never got any "Good Indentation Guidelines" or
anything like that. Incidentally, can someone point me to such a thing?

For me, what turned me off of Lisp as a student was the fact that I was
simultaneously fighting an unfamiliar editor, using a syntax I didn't
like (and getting no help from the editor because I didn't know how to
use it properly), and *at the same time* wrapping my mind around a new
concept of programming. It's not surprising that I gave up on Lisp at
the time.

Now that I've gotten productive in Python, I may give Lisp another try,
although I think I'll study Haskell first as a kind of stepping-stone
(functional programming without the parentheses-heavy syntax). But what
I'd really like before I try Lisp again is a special color-highlighting
mode that would distinguish between deeply-nested parentheses, either
coloring the parentheses themselves or else all the text between said
parentheses. Something like this:

(first
    (second
        (third
            (fourth
            )
        )
    )
)

where each indentation level would be a different color (foreground?
background?). I wonder how hard it would be to modify lisp.vim to allow
this? Well, that's not a project I really have time for at the moment;
maybe later on.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From Gubitz at aol.com  Tue Nov  5 18:02:51 2002
From: Gubitz at aol.com (Gubitz at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:02:51 EST
Subject: mailman
Message-ID: <ac.30783365.2af9a81b@aol.com>

I was referred to this list by my webhost admin..
We are running mailman and for some reason, everyday one of our list admins 
is sent an email with two admin tasks, but when you go to the site, they are 
not there.
We have deleted the list, and reloaded it...we have turned intercept 
administrivia on and off, tried everything
the admin doesn't know and referred me to this list
any suggestiosn?
I mean the same two admin tasks everyday, from Oct 1 when we created the list
please help
thanks
Ron  Gubitz
www.hiphopcongress.com
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From reshminath_1999 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 29 00:11:02 2002
From: reshminath_1999 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Reshmi=20Nath?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 05:11:02 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: please help
Message-ID: <20021129051102.27804.qmail@web11205.mail.yahoo.com>


hi 

i am really new to python and Tkinter.I was writting this game where you have a screen with 100 buttons(its the screen class).Its a 2 player game so the buttons should display the 2 different symbols alternately,and also when abutton is clicked the appropriate position in an array in the board class should change to 1 or 2.So that i can write a function that would check if there is a winner (which is when we have 5 in a row).I wrote a program which i thought would worklike that but its giving me errors .I am attaching a copy of the program here.please help I am really desparate.I also want to know what exactly does the mainloop do?

Thanks Reshmi.

from Tkinter import*

class Board:
    def __init__(self):
            self.mat = [[0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]]
            self.tok1 = 10
            self.tok2 = 10
    def printIt(self):
            print self.mat


class but:
   def __init__(self,master,row,col):
        self.button=Button(master,text = '   ',command=self.clicked(row,col))
 self.index = 0                  
 self.b = Board() 
 
   def clicked(self,row,col):
        self.index = self.index+1   
 print self.index
 if self.b.tok1 > 0 and self.b.tok2 > 0:         # each time a button is clicked alternate 
  if self.index%2 == 0:                   # signs should display
                        self.button.configure(text = '#')
   self.b.tok1 = self.b.tok1-1
   b.mat[row][col]=1               # when the button is clicked appropriate position
  elif self.index%2 != 0:                 # in b.mat should change to 1 or 2
                        self.button.configure(text = '&')
   self.b.tok2 = self.b.tok2-1
                        b.mat[row][col]= 2

   def unClicked(self):
        self.button.configure(text ='   ')

   def allign(self,i,j):
        self.button.grid(row=i,column=j)

def game():
        root = Tk()
        app = Screen(root)
 root.mainloop()
 
# output the board with 100 buttons
class Screen:
    def __init__(self,master):
        frame = Frame(master)
        frame.pack()
        self.index = 0

        self.list = [None]*100
        self.index=0
    
        for i in range(10):
                for j in range(10):
                        self.temp=but(frame,i,j)
                        self.temp.allign(i,j)
                        self.list[self.index]=self.temp
                        self.index = self.index+1
                        

if __name__== '__main__':
 game()





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From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 23:37:43 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:37:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Question about drawing simple graph in Python?
In-Reply-To: <20021108041829.55163.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20021108043743.84642.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>

I have two lists, say:
list1 = ['s1','s2','s1','s3'...]
list2 = ['t1','t2','t3','t3'...]

I want to draw a simple graph, with 's1' points to
't1', which means drawing one line between 's1' and
's2' and an arrow pointed to 't1'. (for i in
range(len(list1), there's an edge between list1[i] and
list2[i]). So how to draw this graph in Python? I
searched on google but didn't find some easy way to
implement this. Thanks for any hints!



=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Nov 18 20:28:20 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:28:20 -0600
Subject: quick question
In-Reply-To: <arc1p1$h5q7a$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> ("Cousin Stanley"'s
 message of "Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:53:09 -0700")
References: <20021116051220.01520.00000047@mb-bk.aol.com>
	<mailman.1037458463.20139.python-list@python.org>
	<arc1p1$h5q7a$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <m27kfaic0b.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Cousin" == Cousin Stanley <CousinStanley at HotMail.com> writes:

    Cousin> I think 5 seconds for categorizing and counting a couple
    Cousin> of floppy disks worth of votes ain't too bad ...

True...

Since you are interested in performance, you might be able to get an
improvement by processing the file at once, rather than in a line by
line loop.

The built-in function map often provides substantial performance gains
over a manual loop.  How does something like the following compare:

from __future__ import division


# xreadlines will split the file by newlines.  votes is now a list of
# favorite ice creams.  
votes = file('votes.dat').xreadlines()

favorites = {}
# We need a custom function to pass to map
def add_vote(v):
    favorites[v] = favorites.get(v,0) + 1

# Use map rather than a built in loop.  You add the cost of the function
# calls, but lose the cost of a python loop.  Who wins?  My guess is map
map(add_vote, votes)

# You don't need to keep a separate tally.  reduce on the values will
# do it very fast
total = reduce(int.__add__, favorites.values())

# The rest is the same as before.  Use your fancy output format instead....
votes = [(count, flavor) for (flavor, count) in favorites.items()]
votes.sort()
votes.reverse()  # winners first!

for (count, flavor) in votes:
    print '%s got %d votes (%%%1.2f)' % (flavor, count, 100.0*count/total)

Anxiously awaiting your results ....

John Hunter






From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 23 15:23:30 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:23:30 -0700
Subject: Post mortem debugging IDE
References: <3ddfde75$0$11752$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <aroo42$ilp$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Irmen de Jong wrote:

> What Python IDE supports post mortem debugging?

Try IPython: http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython/

Type pdb at the prompt. Then, at any uncaught exception the pdb debugger will 
be triggered in post-mortem mode. You can turn the feature on/off by typing 
'pdb' at the prompt. It also interfaces to the profiler (see docs for 
details).

Cheers,

f.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Nov 22 12:15:17 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:15:17 -0600
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
In-Reply-To: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> (Eric Brunel's message
 of "Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:25:07 +0100")
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <m2ptsxeday.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Eric" == Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> writes:

    Eric> Okay, it only saves 3 lines, but I personally find it quite
    Eric> natural... In addition, today, min(None, x) and max(None, x)
    Eric> work, but have strange results: as far as I can see,
    Eric> min(None, x) is always None and max(None, x) is always x,
    Eric> but this behaviour isn't documented.

This case comes up for me a lot too, and I was annoyed by the extra
syntax to handle it so I wrote a helper class CmpTrue, which enables
you to save some typing

xMax =CmpTrue()
for -whatever-:
  # big calculation leading to x
  if xMax<x: xMax = x


CmpTrue overloads all comparison operators to return true for the
first comparison.  After that, the name xMax is assigned to a new
object, so the CmpTrue weirdness is only used in the first pass.

I also overloaded the binary arithmetic operators to just return self
so I could so things like

    storedVal = CmpTrue()
    for x in y:
      thisVal = func(x)
      if 2*thisVal-1 < storedVal: storedVal = thisVal

But I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this.  I probably ought to add a
default init value so this class can be used to either CmpTrue or
CmpFalse on the first pass, and then rename it.

John Hunter

class CmpTrue:
    """
    Return true on any comparison.  This is useful when you want to
    set a default variable at initialization that will be overridden
    on first comparison, as in

    minVal = None
    for seq in allSeqs:
      minSeq = min(seq)
      if minVal is None:
        minVal = minSeq
        break
      if minSeq < minVal: minVal = minSeq

    This song and dance can be simplified in CmpTrue to
    minVal = CmpTrue()
    for seq in allSeqs:
      minSeq = min(seq)
      if minSeq < minVal: minVal = minSeq

    With the arithmetic functions defined to return a CmpTrue object,
    you can do things like

    minVal = CmpTrue()
    for seq in allSeqs:
      minSeq = min(seq)
      if 2*minSeq-1 < minVal: minVal = minSeq

    Use with caution!
    
    """

    __returnTrue = ['__lt__', '__le__', '__eq__', '__ne__', '__gt__',
                    '__ge__', '__cmp__', '__rcmp__']



    __returnSelf = ['__add__', '__sub__', '__mul__', '__div__',
                    '__mod__', '__divmod__', '__pow__', '__lshift__',
                    '__rshift__', '__rsub__', '__rmul__', '__rdiv__',
                    '__rmod__', '__rdivmod__', '__rpow__',
                    '__rlshift__', '__rrshift__']


    def __init__(self):

        for func in self.__returnTrue:
            self.__dict__[func] = self.__return_true

        for func in self.__returnSelf:
            self.__dict__[func] = self.__return_self

    def __return_self(self, arg=None):
        return self

    def __return_true(self, arg=None):
        return 1

    def __str__(self):
        return "It's true, really"








From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Thu Nov 28 17:52:02 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:52:02 +1300
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list@python.org> <3DE59E73.4040908@something.invalid> <as5ugi$a48$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3DE69E12.4@something.invalid>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> This kind of stuff raises questions in my mind as to what
> will be guaranteed to work forever and what may be quasi-experimental,
> or depend on things that really shouldn't be locked in to become
> a millstone of backwards-compatibility to inhibit Guido's freedom.


I'd say that things like func_code and func_globals
are pretty much on the internals side and likely to
change.

For instance, there is a likelihood that access to
global variables will be optimised one day so that
it works more like local variable access does now.
If that happens, functions will probably become
much more tightly associated with the namespace
they were defined in, and this sort of transplanting
trick may no longer be possible.

>  >>> def foo(x): print x
>  ...
>  >>> bar = foo.__get__('Hi via foo')
>  >>> bar()
>  Hi via foo
>  >>> bar
>  <bound method ?.foo of 'Hi via foo'>

> how locked in is this feature? 


I don't know, my brain just exploded while I was trying
to figure out what was going on there...

> What should be the advice for/against using it


I think the advice should be: don't even THINK
about using it!

Who-says-you-can't-write-obfuscated-code-in-Python-ly,

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From imbosol at vt.edu  Wed Nov 13 14:01:05 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:01:05 -0500
Subject: simple metaclass question
References: <3DD08DC1.A4CFE557@irl.cri.nz> <aqs27n$avm$5@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <6NrA9.4123$744.137981@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aqu7kb$ihb$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
>   ...
>> 2. Because M is not a subclass of type, instances of M are not types.
>>    Therefore, A is not a type.  (I'm not sure of this one, though.  I
>>    think in Python an object can be a type only if it is a subclass of
>>    type; I'm not sure if this is true in other languages with
> 
> I'm not exactly sure of what it is that you believe, but, for the record: 
> objects CAN be types of other objects, in Python, without subclassing the 
> built-in `type` -- for example:

Thanks.  I was thinking at the C level, where objects that serve as
types have to have a certain fixed structure.  To create a metatype in
Python (not C), it would have to be an instance of a class that
subtypes type, right?

Gawd, it takes a lot to spin my head in circles, but this metaclass
stuff is doing it.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From jad at theblimp.force9.co.uk  Sat Nov 16 07:26:05 2002
From: jad at theblimp.force9.co.uk (James Dunkerley)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:26:05 -0000
Subject: Publishing Events within Win32Com
Message-ID: <tPqB9.6440$dz2.747879@stones>

Hi,

I am trying to create a COM server within python which sends a COM Event
when it completes the calculation. Is it possible to do this in Python and
if so how do you do it?

I want to connect to the server from Excel. Is it possible to publish the
COM server in such a way that VBA knows of the methods, events and the
variables of the server?

Thanks,
James Dunkerley




From newsreply at jtwok.worldonline.co.uk  Fri Nov 29 14:47:17 2002
From: newsreply at jtwok.worldonline.co.uk (KrayZee--J)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:47:17 -0000
Subject: Regular Expressions?
References: <as79li$o6frd$1@ID-120472.news.dfncis.de> <3DE73D0D.50400@Linux.ie>
Message-ID: <as8g84$ot1k4$1@ID-120472.news.dfncis.de>

Thanks for the reply. The problem turned out to be nothing to do with the RE
but another newbie error I was making, hey I wrote my first python program 2
days ago :) but its so easy to learn :)


"Padraig Brady" <Padraig at Linux.ie> wrote in message
news:3DE73D0D.50400 at Linux.ie...
> KrayZee--J wrote:
> > Is the Regular Expressions module really buggy or is it just me? Almost
> > every expression I type in gives an error. Many expressions which I have
> > tested and work in JScript give errors in python.
> >
> > I want to make a RE which will match an IP address. This one works in
> > JScript:
> >
> > (\d{1,3}\.){3}\d{1,3}
> >
> > In python it works but matches only 1 digit for the last octet of th IP
ie.
> > 192.168.0.100 becomes 192.168.0.1
> >
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
>
> $ import re
> $ ips = "192.168.0.100sadfasf192.168.0.101adads324.23asdf192.168.0.102"
> $ re.findall("(?:\d{1,3}\.){3}\d{1,3}", ips)
> ['192.168.0.100', '192.168.0.101', '192.168.0.102']
>
> P?draig.
>




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Nov 12 08:17:50 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:17:50 +0100
Subject: Question about drawing simple graph in Python?
References: <mailman.1037051957.7026.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqr28k$4ol$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:58:32 -0800 (PST), Mindy <csshi99 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Thanks so much. This really produces the graph with
>edges and nodes. But I have two more questions.
>
>1) How to stick a name to the node? For example, the
>current edge is just a line like:
>  ------------>
>But I want there're nodes' names attached to each
>node, such like:
>
>  pt1--------->pt2
>
>How to draw the above edge?

At the moment I am reading messages about how to handle questions from
new users, so I'll try to do my best to find a friendly way to escape
this question without giving you the feeling of being brushed off :-)

What is necessary to "stick a name to the node" is to use text labels,
and once one is familiar with tkinter it's not a hard thing to do at
all. Explaining how to use text labels in tkinter to someone not
knowing the basics of tkinter however is only possible with sky hooks
which I don't have available at the moment.

So the limits of my example script seem to have been reached, unless
of course you are willing to learn tkinter programming, which will
take about a week I guess. If you can spare the time it's highly
advisable to do so, because - provided you stay with Python - sooner
or later you will have to do it anyway - it's Python's standard GUI -,
and why not have this basic knowledge available right at the
beginning?

So find a tkinter tutor (http://www.pythonware.com) or something like
that and come back in a week or so with some code to this list and I
am sure some people will help you fix it.

On the other hand now that you've got an example of tkinter
programming it's also a good option to stop now for the time being and
start comparing it with other GUI's. Yet another option is to use one
of the ready to go visualization tools that others have suggested.

>2) I met such situation:
>I have edges (pt1,pt2) (pt2,pt3) (pt1,pt3)
>But when I draw, I only get:
>  pt1----->pt2------>pt3
>which doesn't show there's an edge between (pt1,pt3).
>Because the line between pt1 and pt2 overlaps with the
>lines between pt1,pt2 and pt2,pt3. How to fix this?

This seems to be a rather basic problem which probably needs adding
another dimension to the visualization. There is a tool to visualize
3D objects, its called Visual Python and it's surprisingly easy (for a
3D visualization tool) to learn, and it has labels and arrows. Its at:

http://cil.andrew.cmu.edu/projects/visual

I am glad you like my script and please let the fact that I can't help
you much with it now not give you the idea that your feedback is not
valuable. Hmmm, now I have trouble myself to count the double
negations, so let's just say this: It is very valuable for me to know
how my script is used and where it's limits are.

Regards,
		Anton.




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Nov 20 17:08:08 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:08:08 +1100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A766@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Pascal Costanza [mailto:costanza at web.de]
> 
> Meiner Meinung nach h?ngt das im wesentlichen immer davon ab, welche 
> Sprache man zuerst gelernt hat, oder welche man am h?ufigsten benutzt.
> 
> If you don't understand this, would you consider German to be less 
> readable than English? (Run that sentence through 
> http://babelfish.altavista.com to get my point. ;)

Having been involved in these debates before, I now try to avoid them
(except when trying to get Python used on a project ;)

However, you measure readability by how readable something is at comparable
skill levels. So if I were fluent in both German and English (I'm not),
*and* you had provided the English version (not necessarily a direct
translation, but the equivalent meaning) then I could make a judgement. If I
had no fluency in either, I could not make a meaningful judgement.

Likewise, the readability of Lisp vs Python can be determined at various
skill levels. The most masic skill level is no fluency in either language,
but fluency in English. At such a level, Python definitely is most readable
(even someone who has neve seen Python code before can make some sense of
Python code - the same cannot be said for Lisp). Another skill level is
"expert" in both languages. I don't claim to be expert in Lisp - I have a
passing familiarity with it, and so cannot judge. But I suspect that for an
expert in *both* languages, Python is still more readable, even when Lisp is
nicely formatted.

Tim Delaney



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Nov  6 14:58:47 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:58:47 +0000
Subject: newbie re question
Message-ID: <1osisu81483e4k3j905dun6diio6rt29ao@4ax.com>

Hi,

I've been trying to grok re's and settled myself a little exercise:
concoct a re for a Python identifier. 

Now what I got is

>>> pattern = re.compile(r'(\s|^)([\w_][\w\._]*)(\s|$)')
>>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
[('', 'aadf', ' '), (' ', 'b', ' '), (' ', 'aasa', ' '), (' ', 'aa', '
'), (' ', 'aa_aa', ' ')]

But as you can see from the results, not all valid identifiers get
caught. For example, why isn't 'cdase' caught? Or 'a.aa'? Can someone
enlighten me on what I am doing wrong (or what I am not doing right)?

TIA,
G. Rodrigues


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Thu Nov  7 17:50:35 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 22:50:35 GMT
Subject: how to define the size of a list?
References: <aqeqai$92dk3$1@ID-165840.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrnaslrhq.kf.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Marco Herrn wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Sorry if that is a stupid question, but I didn't find the answer in the
> docu.

It is in the FAQ at pyhon.org :-)

> I want to define a matrix (a 2-dimensional list) with a specific size.
> But I didn't find a way to set the size of the list at creation time.

There is no direct way to do this: Python doesn't have
multi-dimensional arrays. What you probably want is a list of lists.

Note that the tempting

    x = [[None] * 4] * 4
    x[1][1] = 5
    print x

will not produce the desired result. The FAQ entry eplains why this is
so.

HTH,

-- Gerhard


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov  9 02:21:40 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 08:21:40 +0100
Subject: Python and prngd
References: <R51z9.21311$6b.851778@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <m33cqbmcmz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Stuart D. Gathman" <stuart at bmsi.com> writes:

> I did a quick search on the web, and didn't find python code to do this.
> So, I reinvented the wheel.  It took less than an hour to go over the
> prngd source and make a client.  Here is the result for those who may
> care.

I don't know what you need this for, but if it was to seed OpenSSL, I
recommend to use socket.RAND_egd.

HTH,
Martin



From Oschler at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  6 10:31:45 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:31:45 GMT
Subject: Jython - ok to obfuscate code?
References: <uH6y9.44584$Lg2.12105314@news2.news.adelphia.net> <23891c90.0211060727.7e422788@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BBay9.44669$Lg2.12149141@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Paul Boddie" <paul at boddie.net> wrote in message
news:23891c90.0211060727.7e422788 at posting.google.com...
>
> I don't believe any black helicopters will be landing on your roof if
> you do decide to do that, but I'd recommend using jythonc on your
> Jython sources and putting the resulting classes in that jar file.
>

Paul,

I assume that you are suggesting that because that's at least one step more
secure than a uncompiled *.py script?  In addition, once it becomes a true
Java class it will be fodder for the obfuscator?

thx





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Nov  7 10:46:32 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:46:32 +0000
Subject: ReportLab 1.16 Released
Message-ID: <2cZsA2AYroy9Ew76@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

Version 1.16 of the ReportLab Toolkit has been released.
Main changes since ReportLab 1.15

- More graphics widgets (shaded polygon, dotbox, slidebox).
- Aaron Watters' advanced paragraph formatter and its parser.
- Alex Martelli's improvements to pyRXP.
- Jerome Alet's recording canvas.
- Additions to pythonpoint.
- New flowable ParagraphAndImage.
- Speedups and fixes.


See
        http://www.reportlab.com/
        http://www.reportlab.com/download.html

thanks to all who contributed.
-- 
Robin Becker


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Thu Nov 21 18:44:54 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:44:54 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
In-Reply-To: <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3DDD711D.2000802@skippinet.com.au>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> I've verefied that the above is correct. I wrote a C program that verifies
> that the value pointed to by the pointer passed to WaitCommEvent() is
> written to later: after the event happens.  

:(

So what do we do?  We can't break backward compatibility.  I guess we 
may need a new function that manages a little 4-byte buffer for this value.

Suggestions welcome.  Obviously, code even more so <wink>

Mark.



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Nov  4 05:07:12 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 11:07:12 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <873cqktmb7.fsf@zamazal.org> <m3lm4biwdl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87wuntr8rq.fsf@zamazal.org>
Message-ID: <j465vd6433.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Milan Zamazal <pdm at zamazal.org> writes:

> OK, that was unknown to me.  If so, then the LaTeX format is completely
> fine for me.  What parser of the Python LaTeX sources do you mean and
> where can I get it from?

There are several parsers in use: LaTex proper (for Postscript
formatting), latex2html (for HTML), Emacs + py2texi (for texinfo),
latex2esis (for SGML). The first two are widely available, the latter
two are in the Doc directory of the Python CVS.

Regards,
Martin



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Nov 22 21:46:23 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:46:23 -0500
Subject: Multiple instances
References: <mailman.1037652747.18051.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDEEBFF.C404456D@engcorp.com>

Xiang Zhang wrote:
> 
> I would like to run multiple instances of the same Python script
> simultaneously. Does Python support such use?

Yes it does, but are you sure you really want to?  This isn't an
attempt to improve performance, is it?  There are some reasons
to run multiple scripts in parallel, but there are some good
reasons not to, as well.  What's the script doing, and why do
you think you want to run it that way?

-Peter


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Nov  6 03:07:57 2002
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 01:07:57 -0700
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com>

Frodo Morris wrote:
> Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
  ...
>> What advantage would this have over putting a #! line in the bytecode?
>>
> Faster, better, cheaper.
> Imagine if parrot could understand all interpreted code.  Why not leave 
> it running, so that any Perl/Python/Tcl/Ruby/Java/sh/BASIC/whatever code 
> can get to it immediately?

Some years back, RMS proposed a standard 'scripting' language called
Guile.  See, various languages like Tcl, Perl, Python, etc. were
being developed and none of them were 1) developed under the FSF nor
2) a variation of Scheme.  (A simplified and perhaps biased
interpretation of mine.)

A key part of his proposal was that Guile would support translators
from other languages, like Python, C, etc., to Guile.

It didn't happen.  Writing those translators are hard because each
of the languages has different object models, which must be implemented
nearly perfectly.  Guile is a full-fledge language built on years of
research into Lisp and scheme, so I would be surprised if it was any
easier to implement in Parrot's byte code.  It didn't happen with
Guile, it's even less likely to happen with Parrot.

I can "imagine if parrot ..."  But it isn't going to happen without
*huge* amounts of work; comparable to writing Jython.  (A Python
implementation written on top of Java rather than C.)

On the other hand, consider the gcc suite of tools.  These convert C,
C++, Pascal, Fortran, Objective C, ... into a more generic form.  So
there is some known success in doing this.  But I've looked at gcc
code and it isn't something I want to hack, while I've contributed code
to Python's C implementation.

					Andrew
					dalke at dalkescientific.com



From alusk at uiuc.edu  Tue Nov 26 20:08:12 2002
From: alusk at uiuc.edu (Andrew Lusk)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 19:08:12 -0600
Subject: *args and **kwargs
References: <uLUE9.5581$kz4.355569@news2.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <87d6orq0oz.fsf@uiuc.edu>

"Dan" <dan at cox.com> writes:
> I am still pretty new on Python and have been working with it for 5 months.
> I ran across some source code that has these constructs.  They look like C
> pointers but most likely aren't.  I can't find explanations to them in
> reference books but have only seen them on function declarations in the
> sources.  Can anyone give a brief explanation or provide a pointer link to
> an explanation?

*args is for multiple arguments.

>>> def foo(*args):
...    print args
... 
>>> foo(1,2,3,4,5)
(1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

So it treats its arguments as a tuple.

**args is for keyword arguments.

>>> def foo2(**args):
...     print args
... 
>>> foo2(a=1,b=2,c=[])
{'a': 1, 'c': [], 'b': 2}

So you can send in keyval pairs and it will get a dictionary.  Useful
for having multiple unordered optional arguments.

--Andrew


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Nov 15 19:40:20 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:40:20 +0000
Subject: wrapping all class methods
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com>
 <mailman.1037385864.30209.python-list@python.org>
 <ar3vgn$d0g$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <atV3MVA0PZ19EwVU@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <ar3vgn$d0g$2 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>, Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu>
writes
>Robin Becker wrote:
>> ..... it seems I was asking a question that Python cannot answer as
>> traceback.print_exc() will only print a traceback back to the point
>> at which it's caught.  The stack frames are there and can be listed
>> further, but I don't think that the line number information is
>> always good beyond the exception handler.
>
>
>Since you're using anygui, maybe it would be more helpful to wrap your
>callbacks.  The Python GUIs I've used (gtk and tkinter) swallow
>exceptions that reach the event loop, which seems typical, but they do
>print the traceback to stdout.  Maybe anygui doesn't even print the
>traceback, or maybe it't not showing up in your programming
>environment.
>
>
>
well actually I'm debugging a backend for anygui and yes you're right it
often swallows stuff. I wanted to wrap all methods without doing a huge
amount of work. The traceback going back only to the handler is a pain
since we might need to know who invoked the method. Using the frame
chain I can now get quite accurate information. It's a pity it's not
rock solid though.
-- 
Robin Becker


From fgeiger at datec.at  Thu Nov 14 02:36:39 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:36:39 +0100
Subject: [regexp] Where's the error in this ini-file reading regexp?
References: <3dd2a254@news.swissonline.ch> <mailman.1037220985.2546.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dd361c1@news.swissonline.ch>

I know, I could do it line-wise. But I am after a single re-line, doing
everything for me.

Thanks for your response!

Kind regards
Franz

"John Hunter" <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1037220985.2546.python-list at python.org...
> >>>>> "F" == F GEIGER <fgeiger at datec.at> writes:
>     F> rex = re.compile(r"(\s*(\[.+\])(\s*((.+)=(.+)))+?)",
>     F> re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE) L = rex.findall(s)
>
> This is a little messier than necessary.  If the config file is really
> as simple as the example, how about a dictionary of dictionaries?
>
> import re
> s = \
> '''[Section 1]
> Key11=Value11
> Key12=Value12
> Key13=Value13
> [Section 2]
> Key21=Value21
> Key22=Value22
> Key23=Value23'''
>
>
> rgx = re.compile('^\[Section (\d+)\]$')
>
> config = {}
> for line in s.split('\n'):
>     m = rgx.match(line)
>     if m:
>         secNum = int(m.group(1))
>         continue
>     try: secNum
>     except NameError: raise RuntimeError, 'Improper config file, no
section defined'
>     else:
>         key, val = line.split('=')
>         config.setdefault(secNum, {})[key] = val
>
> print config
>
> The key value pairs in each section are calling for a string split.
> All you have to do is keep tabs on the section number by updating it
> when you see a match for a section regex.  The section numbers are
> keys for the dictionary, and each key points to a dictionary of
> key/value pairs for that section.
>
> Simple, clean, easy to read and it works.
>
> You can get the vals with, eg,
>
> config[1]['Key11']
>
> JDH
>




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 14 17:25:19 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:25:19 GMT
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037219902.17042.python-list@python.org> <just-3E6E36.10585114112002@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1037311169.18432.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jpVA9.14198$Yw.601501@news2.tin.it>

Neil Schemenauer wrote:

> Just wrote:
>> IMO the best idiom for this currently is
>> 
>>   def foo():
>>       while 0:
>>           yield "whatever"
> 
> This whole discussion is silly, IMHO.  The best idiom is:
> 
>     def foo():
>         return []

Actually, I suspect returning () instead -- empty tuple, not
empty list -- is even better.  To wit:

import time

def emptylist(): return []
def emptytuple(): return ()

def timit(func):
    repeater = [None] * (100*1000)
    start = time.clock()
    for x in repeater: func()
    stend = time.clock()
    return '%s %.2f' % (func.func_name, stend-start)

for f in (emptylist, emptytuple) * 3:
    print timit(f)

[alex at lancelot ball]$ python2.2 -O ba.py
emptylist 0.16
emptytuple 0.07
emptylist 0.14
emptytuple 0.08
emptylist 0.15
emptytuple 0.07
[alex at lancelot ball]$ python2.3 -O ba.py
emptylist 0.08
emptytuple 0.07
emptylist 0.07
emptytuple 0.05
emptylist 0.08
emptytuple 0.07
[alex at lancelot ball]$

admittedly the difference is going to be even less in 2.3,
but still, it's about 100 milliseconds per million empties one
returns -- a few billions, and we'd be talking about REAL
performance issues.  Surely any implementation of something
as frequent as "returning an empty iterable" cannot aspire
to the title of "the best" with that sort of performance hit.


[Note for the humor-impaired: I'd gladly sprinkle suitable
emoticons throughout the post, but unfortunately my Linux
installation doesn't seem to have /dev/emoticons right now --
must be devfs up to its usual tricks -- sorry].


Alex



From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 27 00:43:02 2002
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 21:43:02 -0800
Subject: Database Programming
References: <3875fcac.0211260752.60e2e457@posting.google.com> <3de3ac09$0$9474$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>
Message-ID: <899f842.0211262143.772ba75f@posting.google.com>

> But all in all, vfp and python have very distinctive strengths and
> weaknesses.
> Python plain better for web stuff and vfp way cleaner for data-driven admin
> win32 UIs.
> 
> Unless you prefer java (no experience there),  python is REALLY the way to
> go for
> the http production (the portal thing). It is platform-independant. A
> critical asset.
> 
> Because vfp is proprietary stuff and python syntax just plain great, we'd
> love to transfer
> the whole admin stuff to python-only, pyqt look promising. But this is still
> unrealistic to-day.
> We are still significantly more productive in vfp when building traditionnal
> 2-tiers apps.
> Possibly in a couple of years.

Two options you might want to look at are

python in delphi 
http://www.atug.com/andypatterns/pythonDelphiTalk.htm

There is also talk of writing a scripts to parse out a delphi app
and dump it into xrc (wxPython xml)


GNUe has developed some db tools (reporting - forms etc)
http://www.gnuenterprise.org/project/what.php

> 
> These are personal opinions only...
> 
ditto


From dvrsekhar at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 19 16:54:43 2002
From: dvrsekhar at yahoo.com (rajsekhar darapuram)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:54:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Capturing packets using SOCK_RAW
Message-ID: <20021119215443.16055.qmail@web9705.mail.yahoo.com>

hi,
   I'm learning python. I'm trying to capture packets
using socket (SOCK_RAW option). However when I try to
get the tuple information of the socket by calling
getaddrinfo(), I'm getting the following error.

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "server.py", line 12, in ?
    for res in socket.getaddrinfo(HOST, PORT,
socket.AF_UNIX, socket.SOCK_RAW):
AttributeError: getaddrinfo

  Please let me know.

Regards
Raj
   


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com



From lac at strakt.com  Fri Nov 29 11:11:51 2002
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:11:51 +0100
Subject: Tkinter scrolling canvas questions 
In-Reply-To: Message from Eric Brunel <eric.brunel@pragmadev.com> 
   of "Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:23:51 +0100." <as808m$q0s$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr> 
References: <mailman.1038412478.18166.python-list@python.org> <as2qpc$j1m$1@news-reader10.wanadoo.fr> <mailman.1038581922.1479.python-list@python.org>  <as808m$q0s$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr> 
Message-ID: <200211291611.gATGBpen012469@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

> Richard Kuhns wrote:
> > Would you mind telling me what you used for a reference to find info on
> > winfo_height() and update()?  Did you just install and read through the
> > Tcl/Tk docs, or is there a particular book you like?
> 
> I've never had any books about Python or Tkinter or Tk. The only references 
> I ever used are Fredrik Lundh's "An introduction to Tkinter" @ 
> http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm and Tcl/Tk 
> online man pages @ http://www.tcl.tk/man/

http://www.nmt.edu/tcc/help/lang/python/tkinter.html (John Shipman's 84
page document) has some useful things as well; check out page 9 for a
list of all the mouse cursors you can specify.  When the above doesn't
work, I get out Brent B. Welch's Practical Programming in Tcl and Tk.

Laura Creighton



From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Thu Nov 14 21:09:04 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 02:09:04 GMT
Subject: Variable names on the fly?
References: <3dd3f5fd$0$28311$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <r9u7tu8csfau7sjrpkbg85ttsjrphsec7t@4ax.com> <slrnat7vls.fq.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <em08tukdil48tvou9u3c9ria77cjcqljn6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnat8lpv.13p.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at gmx.de>:
>>for i in range(3):
>>    locals()["list%i" % i] = []
> 
> Although I'm sure you are aware of it, here is for general information:
> 
> From the docs on locals:
> "Return a dictionary representing the current local symbol table.
> Warning: The contents of this dictionary should not be modified; changes
> may not affect the values of local variables used by the interpreter."

No, I wasn't aware of this. Thanks for pointing it out. OTOH I don't
use such ugly constructs in real life :)

-- Gerhard


From gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk  Mon Nov 11 15:49:35 2002
From: gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:49:35 +0000
Subject: Efficient scanning of mbox files
References: <mailman.1037017701.26925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <znsfomqo.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk>

Martin Franklin <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> writes:

> Another thought....  if you have Python 2.2 (or greater)  you can
> iterate through the file :-
>
>     for line in fp:
>         if line.startswith("From "):
>             posns.append(oldpos)
>
>
> Again this should shave a second or two from the result...

Unfortunately, that one's no good. The file iterator gets its speed by
reading in blocks and buffering. That makes all of the offsets gained
from the calls to tell() useless :-(

Paul.
-- 
This signature intentionally left blank


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 19 19:55:45 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:55:45 -0600
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <m2heed13t3.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <E18E3Rt-0001rG-00@tswings.swing.cluster>
        <mailman.1037698233.27806.python-list@python.org>
        <3DDABEF2.BE342B47@alcyone.com>
        <15834.52340.168573.470992@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <m2heed13t3.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <15834.56721.561461.950521@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Skip> Look for it in a future python-mode.el, coming to a disk near
    Skip> you...

    John> Great!  Will you give us a head up when it makes it into CVS?

Will do.  

S



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Nov  1 23:06:06 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 23:06:06 -0500
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
Message-ID: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com>

So I've been having a friendly argument for a long time with a friend of
mine who's a real Java booster.  The current iteration was sparked by a
discussion of extreme programming, where along the way I repeated what
some people here have mentioned about Python being easier to refactor
than Java.  She asked me what -- if any -- Java-based tools were used by
the experienced Java programmers who made that claim.  She thinks that
those tools are superior to plain text editors (which are really all
that's needed for Python).

Anyone wanna help me out here?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Project Vote Smart: http://www.vote-smart.org/


From bondpaper at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  6 18:15:20 2002
From: bondpaper at earthlink.net (Tom)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:15:20 GMT
Subject: Long overflow problem
References: <bondpaper-55CDDD.13105906112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net> <yu99n0oml9zj.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <bondpaper-7D7F62.16212006112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net>

In article <yu99n0oml9zj.fsf at europa.research.att.com>,
 Andrew Koenig <ark at research.att.com> wrote:

> Tom> If I call the function as such: myFunc(2382373743L, 2382772391L), I get 
> Tom> the following error:
> 
> Tom> OverflowError: Long int too long to convert to int. 
> 
> Tom> I can't seem to get myFunc to understand that i and j are long integers. 
> Tom> How would I go about doing this?
> 
> It looks like myFunc is trying to do something with one of its
> arguments that requires an int and will not accept a long.
> Without seeing what myFunc does, it's hard to know what that
> operation might be.

My apologies...

Since I received the error right as the function was being called, I 
assumed that it had to do with the way that the parameters were being 
passed. Basically I was attempting to cycle through a series of very 
large numbers looking for primes. The two numbers passed to myFunc 
denote the starting and ending values.  Even if I break this down to 
something more basic like:

def myFunc (i, j):
   for a in range(i, j):
      print a

I get the same error. Are there any implicit conversions going on here?

Thanks.

Tom


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Thu Nov 14 22:04:51 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:04:51 -0800
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <c8476101.0211132114.1184ab6b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j8o1ra.qh3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Arivazhagan fed this fish to the penguins on Wednesday 13 November 2002 
09:14 pm:

> Hi
>   Can any one please explain how to write a Inline Function in Python?
> Is Inline Functions available in python?

        Can you show us an example of an "inline function" in some other 
language? I don't recognize the usage.

        Some languages have compile options to generate inline code for 
invoked functions, but that is usually a directive to the compiler for 
optimization, and doesn't have to be followed -- the function is still 
defined elsewhere.

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From noel.minet at noos.fr  Tue Nov 12 18:02:18 2002
From: noel.minet at noos.fr (Noel Minet)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:02:18 +0100
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com> <m2n0oeo5bq.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <pan.2002.11.12.20.44.22.748716@battleface.com>
Message-ID: <3dd18879$0$18033$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>

You can also use a more general regex and check if a group is None

something like

>>> import re
>>> regex_set = {'digit':'\d+','lowercase':r'[a-z]+','uppercase':r'[A-Z]+'}
>>> tst = re.compile(''.join(['(?P<%s>^%s$)?'%r for r in
regex_set.items()]))
>>>
>>> m = tst.match('1234')
>>> m.group('digit')
'1234'
>>> m.group('uppercase')
>>> m.group('lowercase')
>>>
>>> m = tst.match('UPPER')
>>> m.group('digit')
>>> m.group('uppercase')
'UPPER'
>>> m.group('lowercase')
>>>
>>> m = tst.match('lower')
>>> m.group('digit')
>>> m.group('uppercase')
>>> m.group('lowercase')
'lower'
>>>
>>> m = tst.match('Mixed')
>>> m.group('digit')
>>> m.group('uppercase')
>>> m.group('lowercase')
>>>

The drawback is that you compile all regexes

HTH


"Alexander Sendzimir" <lists at battleface.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.11.12.20.44.22.748716 at battleface.com...
> John,
>
> Thanks for your response. This is what I was afraid of. This seems really
> sloppy. You don't think there is any better way of doing such a thing? In
> the mean time, what you propose is exactly what I've been doing. Hmmmm.
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:18:01 +0000, John Hunter wrote:
> >
> > That's what I usually end up doing
> >
> > for line in myfile:
> >   m = r1.match(line)
> >   if m:
> >     do_something()
> >     break
> >
> >   m = r2.match(line)
> >   if m:
> >     do_something_else()
> >     break
> >
> >
> > John Hunter
>




From smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org  Mon Nov  4 16:19:59 2002
From: smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org (Jacob Smullyan)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 16:19:59 -0500
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
References: <mailman.1036434666.12451.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasdp3o.u7k.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>

In article <mailman.1036434666.12451.python-list at python.org>, Brian Quinlan wrote:
> Jacob wrote:
> So the code doesn't follow the signature proposal described at:
> http://www.ampoliros.com/en/dev/sdk/xmlrpc/sysmethodsig.html
  [... example of system.methodSignature returning type information followed ...]

No, it doesn't, because I didn't know of this page or, apparently,
grok the real purpose of system.methodSignature; I thought it
documented the signature of the underlying (Python) callable, not the
xmlrpc method itself.  I can't find definitive specs for the system
methods -- most web resources cite the currently nonexistent
http://xmlrpc.usefulinc.com/doc/reserved.html -- but I now see
that Eric Kidd's listMethods implementation is probably meant to
behave as you suggest.

My module may be correct were it to implement system.methodHelp so
that it return both the Python method signature (as opposed to the
xmlrpc method signature) and the docstring, while ceasing to
automatically implement system.methodSignature; but should I bother?
Does anyone actually call this method programmatically as part of a
discovery routine, or is it only useful as human-readable
documentation, in which case conformance to the "spec", such as it is,
is arguably not of great importance?

Cheers,

js





From imbosol at vt.edu  Wed Nov 20 15:02:19 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:02:19 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> "Scale well" normaly implies up, but what I mainly meant is that CL doesn't
> scale down well in a couple of ways. One factor are users: CL is a poor
> language for people who don't have, X (say 18)


Of all the ridiculous things I've read in this thread, this is the
worst.  18 months?  I could learn a human language in less than 18
months.

Try two or three months, at worst.  A competent and experienced
programmer can probably learn a language like Common Lisp in a couple
weeks in their spare time.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Tue Nov  5 16:28:18 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:28:18 +1100
Subject: Need simple algorithm for newbie
In-Reply-To: <aq9c5t$80l6q$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>
References: <d1a9617c.0211040433.1eddb118@posting.google.com> <aq9c5t$80l6q$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <200211060828.19045.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:11, William Park wrote:
> I assume you only want the last 2 fields.  In that case,
>
> 1. Python:
>     a = 'groups.goodle.com'.split('.')
>     a[-2:]
I'm a python newbie too, but it occurs to me that this will be a problem for a 
FQDN, which someone will inevitably throw in just to be nasty:

>>> a = 'groups.goodle.com'.split('.')
>>> a
['groups', 'goodle', 'com']
>>> a[-2:]
['goodle', 'com']
>>> a = 'groups.goodle.com.'.split('.')
>>> a
['groups', 'goodle', 'com', '']
>>> a[-2:]
['com', '']

The C way would be to test for a trailing "." and remove it if present. You 
could do that in python too, of course.

I wondered if there was a better "more pythonic" way, knowing that we don't 
want any empty entries from the list?

Brad

- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Nov 17 03:17:35 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 09:17:35 +0100
Subject: python on unix [getting started]
References: <YnGB9.566$Kw6.401397@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <m34ragk3ts.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> writes:

> In particular, I would like to control mpg123 (i think?).  what is the
> proper way to think about doing something like
> 
> player = win32com.client.Dispatch('mpg123.player')
> player.play('/usr/home/mp3/Some Song.mp3')
> 
> on unix?  perhaps, where is the proper place to look to start learning about
> this. any books, or websites, or pieces of code to look at?

Depends on what precisely "this" is. In general, on Unix, there is
nothing like COM. So when you want to use some functionality written
by somebody else, you have two options:

a) invoke a program that somebody else has written. Using programs is
way more common on Unix than on Windows, it is Unix philosophy to
combine "utilities" into applications.

b) use a library that somebody else has written. In this case, you
need to find a Python wrapper for the library - which either may
already exist, or needs to be written.

"On Unix", playing mp3 files is not supported. Instead, different Unix
systems have different ways of playing mp3 files - some do not support
it at all. So you need to find out what Unix you use (invoke uname for
that), then you need to contact an appropriate newsgroup dealing with
that system specifically.

Most likely, mpg123 is available on your system as well. It is a
command line utility.

Regards,
Martin


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Thu Nov 14 17:50:41 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:50:41 -0800
Subject: tkinter - tk window remains
In-Reply-To: <C5723FF8C56CD5119606000347417D890566AF8C@eg-msgmbx-a12.int.westgroup.com>
References: <C5723FF8C56CD5119606000347417D890566AF8C@eg-msgmbx-a12.int.westgroup.com>
Message-ID: <200211142250.OAA23216@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Thursday 14 November 2002 13:29, Dubois, Jeff wrote:
>   I am using Tkinter to bring up a ScrolledText window.
>   However, when the user closes the window by clicking on the X button in
> the upper right of the ScrolledText window the "tk" window remains. 

On my linux machine, your code never pops open a window (since you withdraw 
it), before mainloop().  If I comment that out, it works like you expect 
(closing the window exits the program).  And judging from the code, that is 
to be expected (since you use the rootWindow as the parent of your widget)

I expect that on Windows, the rootWindow is not really the Tk() root window 
(Do you get an extra, blank window if you don't withdraw it?  I assume that's 
what you mean by the tk window).  Obviously there are platform differences in 
the behavior of Tk.

I suggest you solve it like this:


from Tkinter import *
from ScrolledText import ScrolledText
import sys

bogusrootWin = Tk()
bogusrootWin.withdraw()
rootWin = Toplevel( master=bogusrootWin )
st = ScrolledText(master=rootWin)
st.pack(side=TOP, expand=1, fill=BOTH)
st.insert(END, "\n\n\n\n       THIS IS MAIN WINDOW!\n")
rootWin.protocol( "WM_DELETE_WINDOW", sys.exit )
rootWin.mainloop()


ie. You explicitly create a Toplevel window to use for your application, and 
then using the wm_protocol() method on a Toplevel, you can ask the window 
manager to run sys.exit (or whatever you prefer) when the window is killed.

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From pobrien at orbtech.com  Fri Nov 15 20:35:29 2002
From: pobrien at orbtech.com (Patrick K. O'Brien)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:35:29 -0600
Subject: [Python-Dev] [maintenance doc updates]
In-Reply-To: <20021116005959.2E61D18EC39@grendel.zope.com>
References: <20021116005959.2E61D18EC39@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <200211151935.29103.pobrien@orbtech.com>

On Friday 15 November 2002 06:59 pm, Fred L. Drake wrote:
> The maintenance version of the documentation has been updated:
>
>     http://www.python.org/dev/doc/maint22/
>
> Small updates.
> Add embarrassing note about sneaky feeping creaturism:
> The "chars" argument to str.strip(), .lstrip(), and .rstrip(), as
> well as the str.zfill() method, were all added in Python 2.2.2!
> Woe to over-eager backporters!

The string module docstrings for lstrip and rstrip need updating as well 
then. It looks like only strip has been updated so far. And it would be 
good if this argument was called the same thing in the string type as 
in the string module. The one calls it `sep` and the other `chars`. In 
fact, the docstring for string.strip mixes the two:

def strip(s, chars=None):
    """strip(s [,chars]) -> string

    Return a copy of the string s with leading and trailing
    whitespace removed.
    If chars is given and not None, remove characters in sep instead.
    If chars is unicode, S will be converted to unicode before 
stripping.

    """
    return s.strip(chars)

The docstring for the type still calls it `sep`, as does lstrip and 
rstrip:

PyDoc_STRVAR(strip__doc__,
"S.strip([sep]) -> string or unicode\n\
\n\
Return a copy of the string S with leading and trailing\n\
whitespace removed.\n\
If sep is given and not None, remove characters in sep instead.\n\
If sep is unicode, S will be converted to unicode before stripping");

It looks like the documentation is consistent in calling it `chars`, but 
the implementation is lagging behind.

-- 
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech      http://www.orbtech.com/web/pobrien
-----------------------------------------------
"Your source for Python programming expertise."
-----------------------------------------------




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov  8 17:03:00 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:03:00 GMT
Subject: An evangelist's handbook? (Was: Re: Making a better textbook)
References: <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list@python.org> <usnipihg3okna2@corp.supernews.com> <d6dae77c.0211081300.c94f95a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <owWy9.11842$XO.493367@news2.tin.it>

Ben Wiedermann wrote:
   ...
> In my experience, the "encapsulation" problem is a significant hurdle.
   ...
> So, let's help folks get over this problem. If we could come up with
> some sound bites to offer potential converts, I think it would be of
> good use. Alex was extrememly helpful in this regard, offering up
> tomes of information, as I recall. I will try to dig them out, if I
> have them, but I think we all would much rather hear it from the
> source (hint, hint). I have heard Guido say one of the reasons for

OK, let's see what I had to say about this subject in our correspondence
of about a year ago, then... the quoted questions in the following are
also by you, Ben.


[ start of edited quotes from our correspondence ]

>    Once we show __private, why would we suggest using the single
> underscore convention, as this would be inconsistent w/ the "principle
> of least privilege" we espouse in our other books?

Hmmm, because that principle is incorrect?

Once upon a time, there was the dream of the Waterfall model of software
development.  First, one would do all Analysis (advanced texts split that
into Domain and Requirements phases, a mini-waterfall of its own), thus
reaching perfect understanding of the domain being modeled and the needs
to be met by one's programs in that domain.  Then, one would proceed with
Design, the outline of every solution aspect not depended upon details of
implementation.  Then, Coding.  And so on.

Maybe that could work for Martians; never having met one, it's hard for
me to say.  30+ years of experience have easily shown it's a disaster
for Earthlings, anyway (what a waste: anybody familiar with the works
of some key thinkers of our grandfathers' generation, such as Ludwig
von Wittgenstein, Alfred Korzibski, and George Santayana, would have
known that from the start -- apparently, however, culture is fragmented
enough today that few Methodologists had ever heard of these guys).

Human beings are evolved to work in chaotic environments, superimposing
MODEST, LOCALIZED amounts of control and supervision upon the sheer but
undirected energy of Chaos to yield an overall process flowing more or
less in the desired direction.  Since a little supervision and control
makes things so much better when compared to total disorder and anarchy,
it's a natural fallacy to think that MUCH MORE control and supervision
will make everything just perfect.  Wrong.  When some sort of threshold
is exceeded, the attempts towards tighter control take on a dynamics of
their own and start absorbing unbounded amount of energy and effort in
a self-perpetuating system.

I don't want to get into politics, but this IS very much what happened
East of the Iron Curtain -- far too much control, indeed so much that
the first serious attempt to release it crumbled the whole system to
not much above feudal/anarchy.  The excesses of control in the West
were fortunately moderate enough that they could to some extent be
(partially) unwound less explosively.  I'm not arguing for anarchy,
mind you -- Somalia is a living example of what anarchy means; just that,
quite apart from ethical issues, from a strictly engineering, effectiveness
standpoint there is a reasonably flat optimal region, well short of
totalitarian states but much more controlled than 'everyone for himself'.

Back to software development, we've witnessed similar "secular trends".
Here, the "anarchy" side, in a small scale, is played back again and
again in every student's initial approach to programming, and most small
software houses' beginnings.  But we also have plenty of huge projects
run under "the stricter, the better" principles to remind us constantly
of what an utter disaster those principles are.


To be specific.  "Principle of least privilege" assumes you somehow know
what the 'right' privilege for a certain operation SHOULD be.  This in
turn takes it for granted that you completed a detailed and workable
design before starting to assign privileges (presumably, before you
started coding).  And things just don't work that way.

"Least privilege" is indispensable for SECURITY issues.  It's anything but
unusual for security issues to have diametrically-opposed needs to any other
kind: if you have to assume an adversary who is actively trying to break
things to his advantage, your correct mindset is very different than it
would be otherwise.  Assuming adversarial situations where none exist is,
clinically speaking, symptom number one of paranoia.  I'm as keen on 
security as anybody else I know (I run OpenBSD, I refuse to run any 
protocol on the net except SSH and other demonstrably-secure ones, etc, 
etc), but it's best to keep such mindsets WELL SEPARATED from ordinary 
software development needs, to keep one's sanity and productivity.

Didactically speaking, you have to show a beginner that utter chaos will
not work optimally, of course.  But proposing over-tight control as the
viable alternative is not feasible.  The only really workable way to
develop large software projects, just as the only really workable way to
run a large business, is a state of controlled chaos.  There is a broad
range of mixes between chaos and control that can work, depending on the
circumstances (as I said above, the optimal region is reasonably flat --
a good thing too, or we'd NEVER get it right), but the range does NOT
extend (by a LONG shot!) all the way to the "Waterfall Model" on one
side (just as it doesn't extend all the way to "Do what thou wilt" on
the other:-).

There's a didactical school that claims, to counteract the students'
natural disposition to anarchy, they should be taught programming
discipline as strict as possible.  That's like saying that all schooling
should be in a Victorian College atmosphere, with starched collars and
canings from the Prefects, for similar reasons.  The Victorians did
achieve marvels of engineering that way, albeit perhaps at excessive
social and psychological costs.  But we don't do things that way any more
in most fields.  We surely don't in the kind of software development that
makes a difference in a competitive field (if you develop non-competitively,
e.g. for the government or in a university setting, your incentives are
clearly different; personally, after a decade working for university,
IBM Research, etc, I chose the rough and tumble playing field of real
life software development -- more money, AND is more fun too:-).


>    What is the benefit of "public by default"?

Minimizing boilerplate.  90% of exposed properties in languages and
object models which don't support that lead to a lot of boilerplate:

    public WhateverType
    getPliffo()
    {
        return m_Pliffo;
    }

or (in COM/C++):

    HRESULT get_Pliffo(WhateverType* pVal) {
        if(!pVal) return E_POINTER;
        *pVal = m_Pliffo;
    }

or (in VB):

    Public Property Get Pliffo() As WhateverType
        Let Pliffo = mvarPliffo
    End Property

and so on, and so forth.  There is no benefit whatsoever in all that
boilerplate.  Maybe, if one has been educated to such strict discipline,
there is a "feel-good factor" -- "See, Mum, I'm being a good boy and
only accessing Pliffo via an accessor method!".  But quite apart from
program efficiency (that's not a major issue AT ALL), all that extra,
useless code is a dead-weight dragging your productivity down -- sure,
some silly "Wizard" can originally generate it, but _people_ are going
to have to maintain and test and read and document it forevermore.  
Sheer dead weight.

Some languages don't give you alternatives: if you originally expose
a "public WhateverType Pliffo" you're sunk -- client code will come to
depend on access idioms such as
    WhateverType myPliffoReference = theNiceObject.Pliffo;
and then you can't turn that publicly exposed data into a call to an
accessor forevermore (without breaking client code, NOT a viable
option in most large software projects).

But that's a language defect!  You don't have to get all the way to
Python to find solutions: e.g., in Eiffel, you can have client code
use that sort of construct AND Pliffo will be just accessed if it's
a data attribute, called if it's a method.  Client code will need
to _recompile_, of course, but then, in Eiffel, you need to 'rebuild
world' every time you sneeze, so that's not considered an issue.

Point is, with this approach you don't HAVE to do "Big Design Up
Front" (http://xp.c2.com/BigDesignUpFront.html for much more).  You
have an attribute that looks like client code might perhaps be
interested in looking at, you just use it.  If while refining the
design it turns out that a call to a getter-method is needed, fine,
you add the getter-method *WITHOUT* breaking any client-code.  When
you do it IF AND WHEN NEEDED, you find out that (depending on various
factors) it's something like 10% of properties that need to be
"synthesized" or otherwise controlled by accessor-methods -- the
others are just fine without any boilerplate.

So, OF COURSE, the default in Python is oriented to supporting that
90% or so of cases where nothing special is needed, NOT the remaining
'special' 10%.  This minimizes programmers' effort over the whole
lifecycle -- which is typically interactive, of course, NEVER a
"Waterfall" (you start with some analysis, then begin design and
need to go back to the analysis because design has given you a
better understanding, then back to design, start coding and you find
the design needs to be tweaked, etc, etc -- AND YET you'd better
*release early, release often* if your software artifact is to have
some relevance to your customers' problems in this frantically
changing world of business today...!!!).

See http://www.agilealliance.org/ for example.  I find it particularly
interesting that, while many of the "conspirators" were early enthusiasts
of (what is now called) Agile development in various guises, others (such
as Fowler, Martin, Mellor) were upper-M Methodologists and gradually saw
the light over the last decade or so of experience.  Of course, these
things take forever to percolate down to universities.  But, the pace
is picking up, particularly as movement back and forth between universities
and "real life" software development is not as glacial as it used to be.

Saturday I was a scheduled speaker at Linuxday, presenting the changes in
Python over the last year-plus, and I noticed with interest that well over
half the attendees were involved with both university/research endeavors
AND commercial projects.  I was also struck once again by how many were
using functional programming (Haskell foremost, but O'Caml seems to be
gaining) for the "academic respectability" in their publication-oriented
endeavors, AND pragmatical programming (Python foremost, but Ruby seems to
be gaining) for the "real word productivity" in those projects where they
actually have to deliver AND maintain working software.  I don't necessarily
LIKE all of these trends (I'll take Haskell over any ML, and Python over
Ruby, any day:-) but I do observe them and think them significant.  Some
of these people teach SW development to freshmen as part of their duties,
and in that case it appears that they almost invariably have to teach more
traditional languages (Pascal foremost, but Java seems to be gaining).  I
don't know how much that depends on these being Italian institutions in
particular, of course (I gather Java has already overtaken Pascal as an
introductory language in the US universities, for example).  But that's
nothing new -- back when _I_ taught in universities, I invariably had to
teach Fortran (since I was teaching at the Engineering school -- would
have been Pascal if I taught at CS!-) even though I was using C for real
world programming and Lisp (actually Scheme) for publications (needing
"academic respectability", you see:-).


[ I'm rephrasing, clarifying, and correcting some errors in the following 
example of signature-based polymorphism as enabled by Python's approach to 
encapsulation, compared to our original correspondence ]


def hypot(somepoint):
    import math
    return math.hypot(somepoint.x, somepoint.y)

this client-code only depends on the following subsignature of 'somepoint': 
exposing .x and .y attributes transparently compliant to 'float'.

In practice this means interchangeability of:

class NaivePoint:
    def __init__(self, x=0.0, y=0.0):
        self.x = x
        self.y = y

and

class UnchangeablePoint:
    def __init__(self, x=0.0, y=0.0):
        self.__dict__['x'] = x
        self.__dict__['y'] = y
    def __setattr__(self, *junk): raise TypeError
    def __hash__(self): return hash(self.x)+hash(self.y)
    def __eq__(self, other): return self.x==other.x and self.y==other.y

and many other kinds of 'point'.  The somepoint.x access may be mapped
down to very different mechanisms (it's self.__dict__['x'] in both of
these, but not in many others) but stays *signature-polymorphic* to the
need of client-code 'hypot'.

So the proper procedure is to choose the kinds of 'point' implementations
that meet the design needs *you currently perceive at this stage in your
project*: you don't need to be Nostradamus and foresee how your project
will look in a year, nor to "wear braces AND a belt" and overdesign
everything *just in case* currently-unforeseen needs MIGHT emerge one day.

Rather, you can privilege SIMPLICITY -- that often-underrated, yet most
crucial of all design virtues.  "A designer know that perfection is reached,
not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to
take away" (St. Exupery).  Meet simple design-needs with simple mechanics 
(including NONE AT ALL, from the point of view of the Python coder -- 
rather, the simple needed mechanics are inside the Python interpreter, of 
course), rarer and more complex needs with more advanced mechanics.  No 
"impedence mismatch" between the constraints that arise during a design's 
development, and the remedies needed to meet them.  Bliss!


The single-underline convention (actually enforced where it NEEDS to
be, such as, the Bastion class, "from somemodule import *" where the
module doesn't define an __all__ attribute, etc) is a good example of
"human beings knowing their limit".  If we drop the pretense that a
designer is omniscient, we can see that any determination of a need
or constraint has COSTS -- actual design costs (design time), costs
in terms of missed oportunities, etc.  The parallel is spookily close
to that of asymmetric-information economic exchanges, and I note that
the Nobel Prize in Economics [last] year were granted exactly for work
in the asymmetric-information and signal-exchanging fields, so it would
seem SOME academics are well aware of the issues.

Sometimes (pretty often) you can determine at reasonable 'cost' that
client code may well need to access attributes X, Y, and Z.  Then, you
expose them (without any underlines) -- and later may choose to wrap
them up into accessors, etc, as above.  Sometimes (not often) you can
determine at reasonable cost that client code has no conceivable need
to peek at attributes foo, bar and baz.  Then, you name them __foo,
__bar, and __baz, and generally don't even provide accessors -- those
are the strictly-implementation-related attributes, not part of the
abstract client-visible state of your class at all.

There remains a considerable gray area of attributes that you do not
THINK client-code will need to access, but can't make SURE about without
unreasonable cost.  If you expose an accessor method getEenie that does
some irreversible computation on an internal attribute 'eenie' and
returns the result, for example, it may require unreasonable delays and
cost to ascertain whether it's ever conceivably possible that some client
code may need to access the raw unprocessed value for 'eenie' rather than
always being content with getEenie()'s results.  These are very appropriate
cases to handle with the single-underline convention, meaning: I don't THINK
client-code ever needs to see this, but I can't be SURE -- *at your own
risk* (very strong coupling -- the single-underline DOES mean "internal"!)
you may choose to access this if there's no other way to do your job.

If you've ever programmed to a framework designed by other criteria you
know what I mean... there's this class X in the framework that does ALL
you need BUT doesn't expose one key attribute or method 'meenie' -- it
has it, but as "private".  This recurring horror leads to "copy and paste
programming", forking of framework code and the resulting nightmares in
maintenance (it's a recognized "Antipattern" in the book by that title
by Brown, Malveau, McCormick and Mowbray) -- or even weirder tricks such
as "#define private public" before some "#include" in C++...!!!  The
problem was: the framework designer thought he was omniscient.  The
language URGED him to believe in his omniscience, rather than strongly
discouraging such hubris.  Well, he WASN'T omniscient -- surprise,
surprise, he was a human being (maybe we should subcontract such design
work to martians...?).  So there's cognitive dissonance between the
language-induced mindset, and human biological reality.  Reality wins
out each and every time, but not without much anguish in-between.  (At
the risk of skirting politics again: similarly, the Soviet system urged
central planners to believe their own ominiscience, since everything had
to be planned right from the start -- no built-in flexibility in the
system; I recommend Perrow's "Normal Accidents", a masterpiece of
sociology in my view, about the ills of tight-coupling and assumed
omniscience in accident-prone systems, such as nuclear plants and ships).


Note that I'm only arguing one side of the issue because you're not
advocating the OTHER wrong extreme -- total lack of control, weak
typing, haphazard jumbled-together slapdash 'systems' that don't
deserve that name.  You should see me argue FOR control and against
chaos versus the typical Javascripters of this world:-). (As all people long 
used to occupying a reasonable middle position, I'm also quite used at 
being shot at from extremists of both sides, of course:-).


[ end of edited quotes from our correspondence ]


Alex



From e_viola at libero.it  Sun Nov 17 11:40:45 2002
From: e_viola at libero.it (bart)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:40:45 GMT
Subject: URLLIB2 EXCEPTION
References: <3DD6803C.6090008@libero.it> <m365uwa48j.fsf@flognat.myip.org>
Message-ID: <3DD7C65A.8080000@libero.it>


Andrew Markebo wrote:
> / bart <e_viola at libero.it> wrote:
> | I use function urllopen to connect to http web page. When resource
> | doesn't present in location, urllopen returns exception. The web
> | server, in this occasion, generates a page to communicate the error,
> | but urlopen doesn't return it.
> 
> | What can I do to receive error page source code by urlopen?
> 
> Hmm doesn't the exception have this info? I think like member msg of
> the exception.. 
> 
> Otherwise you have to dig into what urlopen does, and do the calls to
> functions in urllib2 yourself. Not too hard if you know python a
> little ;-)
> 
>        /Andy
> 
I have check member msg and it return the info error message. Example 
'not found'.
Other member I don't think that are useful to resolve my problem. 
Perhaps fp attribute because I don't know it. Do you know its uselfulness?

Thanks to help me...

							- Ennio -
							




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov  3 23:57:37 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 04:57:37 GMT
Subject: import Image vs from PIL import Image vs import PIL.Image
Message-ID: <aq4uo1$68o$0@216.39.172.122>

I seem to have succeeded in building PIL from source with jpeg and zlib 1.1.4
on windows NT. PIL and its pdf documentation manual are very nice (note that
if you're still using an old Acrobat 3 reader you will need to upgrade to
read the pdf manual).

I backtracked and took alternate routes and hacked here and there on the way
to the goal, so there were probably numerous places where something could have
gone wrong, but it seems to work if -- and here's where my question comes in --
I put 'from PIL ' in front of the import statements in documentation examples.

Googling reveals some discussions of similar symptoms in the past, but I didn't
find a solid diagnosis or suggestion in what I skimmed.

Hm... Not that I think I really want the available-for-import-using-a-plain-name
namespace to include a lot of stuff from various packages all the time. I may want
to use it just as an ordinary package anyway.

I think I'd rather work up some kind of mechansim to expose only what I'm interested
in at a given time, something like use_package('xxx') and then having site-packages/xxx
put temporarily in the search path. I haven't explored package use that much, so perhaps
there already is such a feature amongst the batteries?

I am running 2.2.2, and getting the following (separate invocations of Python to be sure):

 [20:43] C:\pywk\pilt>python
 Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import Image
 >>> Image.core
 <Image._imaging_not_installed instance at 0x007E20E0>
 >>> ^Z

The above obviously stops anything further from working, though it's easy to work around:

 [20:43] C:\pywk\pilt>python
 Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> from PIL import Image
 >>> Image.core
 <module 'PIL._imaging' from 'D:\python22\lib\site-packages\PIL\_imaging.pyd'>
 >>> ^Z


 [20:43] C:\pywk\pilt>python
 Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import PIL.Image
 >>> PIL.Image.core
 <module 'PIL._imaging' from 'D:\python22\lib\site-packages\PIL\_imaging.pyd'>
 >>> ^Z

I had to copy zlib.dll into the PIL directory so that _imaging.pyd would load
the latter ways, but I'm wondering why the import _imaging in Image.py is apparently
seeing things differently.

What did I glitch or omit? Or what is the explanation?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From lvirden at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 12 07:44:56 2002
From: lvirden at yahoo.com (lvirden at yahoo.com)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 12:44:56 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <m3u1ioje5b.fsf@mumonkan.sunstarsys.com>
Message-ID: <aqqt48$osk$1@srv38.cas.org>

According to Joe Schaefer  <joe+usenet at sunstarsys.com>:
:"Donal K. Fellows" <donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk> writes:
:
:[Scary ... worrying ... security ... suspicious ... pipe-dream]
:
:Brazil (1985).

Security and Microsoft outlook/Internet Explorer - past 5 years or more...
-- 
Tcl - The glue of a new generation.  <URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/ >
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
<URL: mailto:lvirden at yahoo.com > <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/ >


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 18 20:02:54 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:02:54 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <mailman.1037659117.8053.python-list@python.org> <0LeC9.17359$0U1.1724151@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3DD98DBE.C4363805@alcyone.com>

Richard Dillingham wrote:
> 
> if a,b>c,d: print a
>   File "<input>", line 1
>     if a,b>c,d: print a
>         ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

But now consider:

	t = a, b > c, d

This _is_ legal, and refers to a 3-tuple.  It's legal in an if clause,
although the parentheses are required.  What you want is an exception so
that the _same exact code_ will have different meanings in different
contexts (in one case it creates a 3-tuple, in the other it does a
pairwise comparison of two n-tuples).  This is an extremely bad idea.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ All the people in his neighborhood turn around and get mad and sing
\__/ Public Enemy
    Erik Max Francis' bookmarks / http://www.alcyone.com/max/links/
 A highly categorized list of Web links.


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov  7 06:17:53 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:17:53 GMT
Subject: Python In A Nutshell?
References: <mailman.1036666098.19256.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <BZry9.969$Bs5.18961@news1.tin.it>

John Abel wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> Has anyone any information regarding the availability of this book?

Nobody has any certainties yet, sigh (as the author, I should know).

>  According to Amazon UK, it should have been available from 1st
> November, yet I can't find any mention of it on the O'Reilly site.

I delivered the final draft to the editor within my deadline for
Nov 1 publication, but, alas, the Python Nutshell book then ended
up in the queue behind the PHP Cookbook and got pushed back by it --
so, nothing much has happened over the last 2 months or so.  The
PHP Cookbook, I believe, is now done and over with, and the Nutshell
should be next in queue for final editing, checking and processing.

But this means I can't yet give you a reliable prediction for the
date the book will be on the shelves -- it's basically all in
O'Reilly's hands now, even though I'll still have some minor checks
etc to do as they do their part of the job.

Thanks for your patience...!-(


Alex



From inyeol.lee at siimage.com  Wed Nov  6 16:03:31 2002
From: inyeol.lee at siimage.com (Inyeol Lee)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:03:31 -0800
Subject: newbie re question
In-Reply-To: <1osisu81483e4k3j905dun6diio6rt29ao@4ax.com>
References: <1osisu81483e4k3j905dun6diio6rt29ao@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20021106210331.GA8400@siliconimage.com>

In the first match ('', 'aadf', ' '), you already consumed whitespace, so the RE
engine starts looking from "cdase ..." for next match, and there's no leading space and
it's not a string start, so "cdase ..." doesn't match.

Inyeol...

On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 07:58:47PM +0000, Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've been trying to grok re's and settled myself a little exercise:
> concoct a re for a Python identifier. 
> 
> Now what I got is
> 
> >>> pattern = re.compile(r'(\s|^)([\w_][\w\._]*)(\s|$)')
> >>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
> [('', 'aadf', ' '), (' ', 'b', ' '), (' ', 'aasa', ' '), (' ', 'aa', '
> '), (' ', 'aa_aa', ' ')]
> 
> But as you can see from the results, not all valid identifiers get
> caught. For example, why isn't 'cdase' caught? Or 'a.aa'? Can someone
> enlighten me on what I am doing wrong (or what I am not doing right)?
> 
> TIA,
> G. Rodrigues
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From info at mjais.de  Wed Nov 27 17:15:29 2002
From: info at mjais.de (Markus Jais)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:15:29 +0100
Subject: urllib2 tutorial ?
Message-ID: <as3g2u$nnh1n$1@ID-75083.news.dfncis.de>

hello
I read the urllib2 documentation in the library reference at python.org

although it is not hard to read, I was wandering if there is something more
tutorial like for urllib2.

if anybody has a URL where I can find such a tutorial, please let me know.

thanks.

markus


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Mon Nov 11 00:14:54 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:14:54 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <TGdz9.25269$6b.996605@news2.east.cox.net> <mailman.1036918274.6065.python-list@python.org> <TLDz9.33957$6b.1437926@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <ecenqa.415.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Richard Dillingham fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 10 November 
2002 05:31 pm:

> The C/C++ "standard" I actually assumed to be standard from the
> following facts:
>     1) MSVC++ autogenerates code that has {}s placed in the manner
>     which I
> called "standard"
>     2) Almost all of the open-source C/C++ projects I have looked at
>     have
> {}s placed in the manner which I called "standard"
>     3) Source code included with MSVC++ 6 has {}s placed in the manner
>     which
> I called "standard", and the following is quoted from

        I can't recall the name of the program, but I do recall having one on 
my Amiga whose sole purpose in life was to "pretty print" C source 
code... A also recall it took me some time to define the options so 
that it /did/ generate the format you showed...

        Ah, found it...


NAME
       indent  - changes the appearance of a C program by insert?
       ing or deleting whitespace.


-- 
--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From tismer at tismer.com  Sat Nov  2 09:24:52 2002
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 15:24:52 +0100
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg> <mailman.1036145342.13403.python-list@python.org> <7396d2b2.0211011200.75ecd9e2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DC3E034.9080402@tismer.com>

Lemniscate wrote:
> Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036145342.13403.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>Using the Installer gives you the advantage that
>>no source code can be seen and even no bytecode
>>is visible in the first place. It is of course ungzipped
>>from the executable at execution time, but there are
>>no visible files, it is in memory, only.
> 
> 
> Actually, this isn't quite true.  If you open the exe generated by the
> Installer with a text editing program (even NotePad works), your code
> is visible in the code (just do a search for you imports or a def
> statement and you'll find it. 

Only if you turned off the compression.
I just ran my 3.5 mb generated .exe through
a cygwin strings command, and nothing readable
was a little stuff from the installer and
from the zlib.

Did you add your scripts and modules using plain
PYSOURCE or PYMODULE types?
They should of course all end up in a PYZ type
that makes them unreadable by compression.

> Usually, I find it in either the dead
> center of the file, or towards the end of the file.  In fact, if you
> cut and paste, you will have your code back (I've actually done this
> before when my wife deleted some of my source back-ups, and it works
> perfectly). 

This still works with my .exe as well, given that I add the
sources by hand, too. Usually, only the real scripts are
in source form, al other stuff is in modules, which are
added as .pyc files. So I really wonder how you used
the installer ???

> For some interesting reading (and some nice laughs along the way),
> check out: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=obfuscation&meta=group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

That's really funny!
Great idea, to just generate Perl :-)

ciao - chrid

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 27 22:06:36 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:06:36 +1300
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org> <as1n60$dkg$2@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <3DE5883C.8010705@something.invalid>

maney at pobox.com wrote:

> Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> 
>>proof that the language is broken in that area. We don't say, "Is Tuesday 
>>today?" or "Is 5 your age?", either. :)
> 
> Is it Tuesday today?


But these sound *really* odd:

   Is Tuesday it today?

   Tuesday is it.

Some people insist that the verb "to be" should take
the same case before and after, e.g. "I am he" and
not "I am him". But I offer these as evidence that,
in English at least, this verb is NOT symmetrical!

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From bharris at students.depaul.edu  Sun Nov  3 05:29:46 2002
From: bharris at students.depaul.edu (Brant Harris)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 10:29:46 GMT
Subject: Python embedded into C#, how?
References: <rM1x9.3985$mN6.1275455@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <uU6x9.4009$mN6.1306943@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ... and I can't seem to actually use the COM object once it's used.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sorry I meant, I can't seem to actually use the COM object once it is
registered.  Use it as in, I have to reference it in C# and I can't seem to
find the object in its COM list.


Thanks




From jmarshal at mathworks.com  Tue Nov 26 16:32:31 2002
From: jmarshal at mathworks.com (Joshua Marshall)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:32:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
References: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com> <3de3e129$0$4437$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <as0p9f$3c7$1@ginger.mathworks.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> In article <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908 at newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>, Steven Rumbalski wrote:

>> In python I can write:
>> 
>> a, b = i, j
>> 
>> but the following is not legal:
>> 
>> a, b += i, j
>> 
>> Is there a reason that allowing this would be bad?

> If it were allowed, what do you propose it would do?

Maybe:

  a, b += i, j

is equivalent to

  tmp = j
  a += i
  b += tmp

I use a temp because of this sort of situation:

  a, b += b, a


From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Nov 19 12:37:48 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 09:37:48 -0800
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211190937.217dc25d@posting.google.com>

"Josh" <jslmaslk at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> Hi guys,
> 
> I am a python newbie, and I am sure there is an easy answer but, Is there
> any equivalent to C's static variables in Python? If not, how can you have
> variables inside a function, that 'remember' their values between function
> calls?
> 
> Josh

A simple trick to simulate static variables by passing an optional
mutable object is the following:

def f(x,i=[0]): # i[0] is the "static" variable
    i[0]+=1
    return x+i[0]

print f(0),f(0),f(0) #--> 1,2,3


See 

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pycon.html?dwzone=linux

for more.

-- 
Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Wed Nov 13 03:55:11 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:55:11 +0100
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ? - testing only
In-Reply-To: <44ee1dc2.0211130029.331c384a@posting.google.com>
References: <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOOENPDPAA.marklists@mceahern.com> <mailman.1036484650.32647.python-list@python.org> <44ee1dc2.0211120441.465eeb62@posting.google.com> <44ee1dc2.0211130029.331c384a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021113085511.GA2361@lilith.ghaering.test>

* Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM <Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM> [2002-11-13 00:29 -0800]:
> news:<44ee1dc2.0211120441.465eeb62 at posting.google.com>...
> 
>  this time i leave the ?news-line? unchanged above...

For such tests, there are groups whose only purpose is testing, like
alt.test. Please use one of these in the future for testing.

Apart from that, welcome to comp.lang.python :)

-- Gerhard



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 24 09:10:50 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:10:50 +0000
Subject: Iteration of strings
References: <DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489@news010.worldonline.dk> <mailman.1038008911.28064.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE0DDEA.1B87D457@hotmail.com>

Bjarke Dahl Ebert wrote:

>> When writing small scripts in Python, I often make the same error:
>>
>> Some function expects a list of strings, and does something like
>>     for elem in thestringlist: ...
>>
>> What do you think?

Chad Netzer wrote:

> Use an assertion in your function (or script):
> 
> def dont_allow_string_argument( s ):
>     assert not isinstance( s, type("") )

There is only one small problem with this, recognising unicode strings.

>>>dont_allow_string_argument("Hello World!")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in dont_allow_string_argument
AssertionError
>>>dont_allow_string_argument(u"Hello World!")
>>>

I suggest the following amendment:

import types

def dont_allow_string_argument(v):
    assert type(v) not in [types.StringType, types.UnicodeType]

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From slzatz at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  4 08:01:16 2002
From: slzatz at hotmail.com (Steve Zatz)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 05:01:16 -0800
Subject: Tkinter File Dialog Question
References: <6747bc9d.0211021953.4fd02462@posting.google.com> <l7px9.9$pU4.435@news.get2net.dk>
Message-ID: <6747bc9d.0211040501.2e8000b5@posting.google.com>

Jorgen,

Thanks much for the response.  I wasn't aware that there was a
defaultextension option.  Unfortunately, it doesn't quite solve my
problem.  I am providing the users with several extension options (eg
xml, txt) and they are selecting one of those options and then
(understandably) creating a file name without an extension assuming
that it will pick up the extension they have selected.  However, I
don't see any way to get at their extension selection since the Dialog
only seems to return the filename they input.



> you can use the option: 'defaultextension'. Example
> 
> >>> import tkFileDialog
> >>> res = tkFileDialog.asksaveasfilename(defaultextension=".txt")
>  (user types in "myfilename")
> >>> res
> 'myfilename.txt'
> 
> Remember the dot in the extension string. I just tried and it works, 
> unless the user selects a filename that already exist.
> 
> Regards
> Jorgen Cederberg


From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Nov 18 18:50:21 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:50:21 +0100
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <c0abefc3.0211161052.2b2fd2d3@posting.google.com>; from marvelan@hotmail.com on Sat, Nov 16, 2002 at 10:52:36AM -0800
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <c0abefc3.0211161052.2b2fd2d3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021119005021.C11257@prim.han.de>

M wrote:
> There seems to be many opinions about my post. That is good. Thanks everybody
> for discussing this. 

I'd prefer it if you actually answered to some posts.  

    holger



From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 22 04:33:50 2002
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:33:50 +0000
Subject: Gnuplot on Windows
Message-ID: <F49A8M6XQQez1enAqpf000003ac@hotmail.com>

<snip>
> >    self.write(s + '\n')
> >IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument
> >>>># Working through the hierarchy gives me
> >>>>a.gnuplot.gnuplot
> ><open file 'f:\simmonds\gnuplot\pgnuplot.exe', mode 'w' at 0x00792CE8>
>                                           ^^^        ^^^
>Why would a .exe file be opened with mode 'w'?? Or at all?
>
>Creating or modifying exe's on the fly could be not so nice for your system 
>;-/
>
>I would want to check that out carefully.
>
</snip>

Thanks Bengt,

I think this is the time to admit that I really don't know how you'd 
simulate stdin/out streams on Windows. This pgnuplot program is a console 
mode program supposed to take input from a file stream, and relay it to a 
wrapped wgnuplot GUI window.

I used this program hoping it would be a quick and easy solution for my 
Windows port problems. However, looking at the code, the last change to 
pgnuplot was in '99, and we're running this software on 2000 now. Does 
anyone know if the API's moved on so that a recode is in order? I've got a 
big book on Windows API C programming, but I was hoping to avoid it as long 
as possible...the business end of the wrap is done using PostMessage.

Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks,
Paul

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From paul at boddie.net  Wed Nov 13 13:47:41 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 10:47:41 -0800
Subject: The input function (was Re: total and utter newbie)
References: <pan.2002.11.12.23.36.32.644986@webmail.co.za>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0211131047.63bd0858@posting.google.com>

"rockbox" <rockboxb at webmail.co.za> wrote in message news:<pan.2002.11.12.23.36.32.644986 at webmail.co.za>...
> 
> value = input('Enter Value : ')
> rate = input('Enter VAT Rate : ')
> vat=(rate/100)*value
> total=value+vat

I suppose this is another reason for warning people off the 'input'
function, with the primary reason (stated in the Python tutorial) for
not using that function in many applications being the possible
subversion of the program through malicious user inputs.

Anyway, since the 'input' function can potentially return a result of
any type, yet Python's division will only work as expected (in this
case) either with future division enabled or with values of specific
types, it must be good practice to obtain and check the user-supplied
values using 'raw_input' and then a conversion to 'float' (or an
even-more-suitable numeric type).

For example:

  value_string = raw_input("Enter Value : ")
  rate_string = raw_input("Enter VAT Rate : ")
  try:
    value = float(value_string)
    rate = float(rate_string)
    vat = (rate / 100) * value
    total = value + vat
  except ValueError:
    print "Please use numbers!"

Or something like the above.

Paul


From Padraig at Linux.ie  Wed Nov 27 07:26:29 2002
From: Padraig at Linux.ie (Padraig Brady)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:26:29 GMT
Subject: what does is ?
References: <3de4a6dd$0$86531$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <slrnau9cep.tk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <3DE4B96D.1060808@Linux.ie>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Jonas Geiregat <kemu at sdf-eu.org> wrote:
> 
>>I saw something
>>import string
>>string._StringType is str
>>what does this specially that IS
> 
> The "is" operator compares object *identity*, rather than equality, which the
> "==" operator does.

Well why does the following happen on 2.2?
Is Python being clever about merging variables?

s1="123"
s2=s1[:]
s1 is s2 #true?



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov  7 12:15:00 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:15:00 GMT
Subject: Times and dates
References: <aqe176$r9t$1@reader1.tiscali.nl> <aqe343$9kd$1@news.schlund.de> <aqe3lq$sqt$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <ocxy9.4560$XO.165733@news2.tin.it>

YorizZ wrote:

>> strptime() may be your friend if your platform supports it:
> 
> Yeah,
> 
> I know about that.
> Unfortunately i have to deal with windows...

Then look for a portable strptime implemented in Python
itself, such as Brett Cannon's at 
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/56036 .


Alex



From joe.sixpack at whoopie.com  Tue Nov  5 12:54:00 2002
From: joe.sixpack at whoopie.com (Joe Sixpack)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:54:00 GMT
Subject: How to create a unary operator?
Message-ID: <H5471x.EyL@news.boeing.com>

Is it possible to create a unary operator on a class object by redefining an
existing operator symbol?  If so, how?

For example, I'd like to create a new class, MyClass, and use the symbol '^'
to call a method in that class.  The '^' is a standard symbol in the domain
of the problem that I'm working in, so I'd like to use that symbol instead
of a different one, if at all possible.

Sample code that I'd like to be able to create and execute:

a = MyClass( )
b = ^a
if ^a:
    print 1
else:
    print 0

etc...

Thanks!
Sixpack




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 20 09:35:55 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 14:35:55 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <areli6$ris$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnatlo5h.r3b.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <arg6kb$es5$0@216.39.172.122>

On 20 Nov 2002 01:07:57 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

>In article <areli6$ris$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>>==== from an old win32 help file that may have come with an old version of Delphi ?? ======
>> 
>>   If the overlapped operation cannot be completed immediately, the function returns FALSE and
>>   the GetLastError function returns ERROR_IO_PENDING, indicating that the operation is executing
>>   in the background. When this happens, the system sets the hEvent member of the OVERLAPPED
>>   structure to the not-signaled state before WaitCommEvent returns, and then it sets it to the
>>   signaled state when one of the specified events or an error occurs. The calling process can
>>                                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>>   use a wait function to determine the event object's state and then use the GetOverlappedResult
>>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>   function to determine the results of the WaitCommEvent operation. GetOverlappedResult reports
>>                                                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>   the success or failure of the operation, and the variable pointed to by the lpfdwEvtMask
>>                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>   parameter is set to indicate the event that occurred. 
>>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> 
>>   If a process attempts to change the device handle's event mask by using the SetCommMask
>>   function while an overlapped WaitCommEvent operation is in progress, WaitCommEvent returns
>>   immediately. The variable pointed to by the lpfdwEvtMask parameter is set to zero. 
>> 
>>==========================================
>> 
>> Sounds like the mask location is safe if you don't call
>> GetOverlappedResult??
>
>I sure don't know.  I've found examples that don't call GetOverlappedResult
>and they expect a "delayed" write to *lpfdwEvtMask happen.
>
"""
  If the lpo parameter is NULL or the hCommDev handle was opened without specifying
    the FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED flag, WaitCommEvent does not return until one of the specified
    events or an error occurs. 
"""

Did the examples use the FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED flag and provide the lpo parameter for sure?
Otherwise there is apparently an implicit wait.

>And I thought it impossible for me to grow to hate Windows even more...
>
Well, try to make your solutions portable ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Wed Nov 20 20:46:49 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:46:49 -0800
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
References: <mailman.1037836236.12644.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9udhra.km3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Brian Quinlan fed this fish to the penguins on Wednesday 20 November 
2002 03:12 pm:

> you are, conceptually, saying: 5 is in a mailbox somewhere, make "a"
> know the address of that mailbox. I wouldn't use the mailbox analogy
> with Python though.
>
        My normal description for Python run:

a = 5

        Find the post-it note that has the name "a", if it doesn't exist, 
create a new post-it and write "a" on it. Take this post-it note, and 
find the box containing "5"... Stick the post-it note on that box 
(without removing any other post-it notes already on the box).

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Tue Nov 12 20:01:38 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 01:01:38 GMT
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Martin v. Loewis wrote in comp.lang.python:
> DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>> I'm curious what the problem being solved is, and whether docbook
>> and its xml toolset could resolve it?
> 
> As a DocBook user, I can tell you that DocBook and its xml toolset
> could not resolve that.

At least, the DTD would have to be extended and the tools would likely
have to be adjusted. I'm quite sure that everything that the current
customized LaTex suite uses can be done with Docbook/XML (or
Docbook/SGML, which is a little more mature).

>> [\seerfc]
>> <ulink href="url"> .... </ulink> appears to provide the same
>> functionality if that is the case.
> 
> Yes, but the documentation author has to fill in the URL. In Python
> documentation, the RFC URL provided at formatting time; currently, it
> points to www.faqs.org.
> 
> So yes, this could be converted, but only with a loss of information.

That's true for ulink, but you could invent your own element and have
appropriate transformation to do the same as the current solution.

Here's my personal summary of the pros/cons:

- Everything that the current Python/LaTex toolchain can do could in
  theory be done using a XML/SGML toolchain, using various
  transformation tools (AFAIK these exist for
  man/pdf/ps/html/txt/windows help from either Docbook XML or SGML)

- It's some effort to extend the Docbook DTD to fit the need of the
  Python documentation.

- It's considerable effort to adjust the various transformation tools
  to cope with the new DTD.

- It's also considerable effort to tweak the transformation tools
  (via XSLT, XML:FO or whatever) so that the resulting documentation
  does look as well as Python's current one. The defaults of these
  tools mostly look quite crappy.

- There's no clear benefit from switching to Docbook right now. All
  the difficult work has already been done for LaTex and switching to
  Docbook provides no clear advantage. Plus, the difficult work would
  have to be done *again*.

Personally, I happen to like Docbook and hardly ever used LaTex, but
have difficulty making the (HTML) Docbook output look good.

I'd suggest to anybody who wants to make the Docbook transition happen
to provide XSLT/CSS stylesheets that make the HTML output of Docbook
look *exactly* like the current one. Same for the PDF output. Unless
you can prove that this is at least possible, at least *I* find the
suggestion to switch to Docbook unconvincing.

Those who are working on the Python documentation will certainly not
do this work for you, as they've better work to do. Namely, writing
documentation and not fighting the toolchain. Adjusting the tools has
been done once already, and that should suffice for a few years ;-)

-- Gerhard


From duncan at rcp.co.uk  Tue Nov 26 11:34:27 2002
From: duncan at rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:34:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A bug or a feature: how to avoid?
References: <as06i3$4bi$1@serv.vrn.ru>
Message-ID: <Xns92D2A9C5565B4duncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>

"Lexy Zhitenev" <zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru> wrote in
news:as06i3$4bi$1 at serv.vrn.ru: 

> This code doesn't work, it raises SyntaxError
> 
>>>> try:
> ...  pass
> ... except IndexError, ValueError, NameError:
> Traceback (  File "<interactive input>", line 3
>     except IndexError, ValueError, NameError:
>                                  ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>>
> 
> I don't want to write the code under try statement twice! What's the
> solution? Or it should be reported as a bug?

No bug. Put the exceptions in parentheses:
>>> try:
	pass
except (IndexError, ValueError, NameError):
	pass

The first parameter to except is either a single exception or a tuple of
exceptions, but this is one of the situations where the parentheses are
needed around the tuple. 


From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Nov 12 10:36:29 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 07:36:29 -0800
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211120736.6f1415e0@posting.google.com>

a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya) wrote in message news:<fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8 at posting.google.com>...
> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
> a single line of code.
> 
> perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
> 
> can python do something like this?

It seems that the following has not yet been proposed:

echo -e 'a,b = 1,1\nwhile a < 100: a, b = b+a, a; print a' | python

Just my $0.02,

--
Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/


From Bill.Scherer at verizonwireless.com  Wed Nov 13 10:32:32 2002
From: Bill.Scherer at verizonwireless.com (Scherer, Bill)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:32:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OpenLDAP slapd backend for Python (back-python) ?? 
In-Reply-To: <3dd26b1b_5@goliath.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211131029280.1246-100000@bagend.odc.vzwcorp.com>

[posted and mailed]

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Brad Clements wrote:

> I'm looking for a python backend to OpenLDAP slapd.
> 
> I see that Andy Dustman was going to write one back in 1999, but I can't
> find out any information about it.. I tried sending him email but perhaps I
> don't have the correct address.
> 
> So .. does anyone have a back-python for slapd?

I wrote something a while back in pure python using slapd's 
cgi-like interface.  Performance is not terrific, but it does 
work.  If you are interested I could send you the details.

-- 
Bill.Scherer at Verizon Wireless
RHCE 807101044903581




From pknotz at sandia.gov  Sat Nov 30 20:30:11 2002
From: pknotz at sandia.gov (Pat Notz)
Date: 30 Nov 2002 17:30:11 -0800
Subject: Python exceptions: is there a way to find the exception attributes?
References: <3DE8F629.4080108@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <525eaba.0211301730.6c79cba0@posting.google.com>

> Is there a way to find out about the existence of these attributes 
> without having to read the documentation, using the dir() function or 
> something else?

You can also cast the exception into a string which -- if the
exception class is properly designed -- should give you useful
information.  For example:

try:
    open('/foo.bar')
except Exception, e:
    print 'Exception occurred: %s' % str(e)

That's not exactly what you were asking for but maybe it'll help.


From sandysj at juno.com  Fri Nov  8 10:39:25 2002
From: sandysj at juno.com (Jeff Sandys)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:39:25 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DCBDAAD.AD27DFEE@juno.com>

Oleg wrote:
> 
> ... I couldn't help but wonder why Python is popular, 
> while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?

One reason is that Python has a lower threshold for learning. 
We can get a non-programmer productive in Python in 8-16 hours 
of training, but it takes 24-40 hours of training for Lisp.

My personal view: Lisp is more powerful, Python is more fun.

Thanks,
Jeff Sandys


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov 23 07:29:23 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 04:29:23 -0800
Subject: ANN: CSBuddy 1.2 -- Counter-Strike server log file monitor
Message-ID: <3DDF74A3.ED70CCA8@alcyone.com>

Summary

    CSBuddy is a tool designed to help Counter-Strike server owners,
    particularly those running AdminMod.  It does two things: First,
    it maintains a queryable database of all players that have been
    seen on the server; and second, it filters the raw logs of a
    Counter-Strike server and distills them into a single CSBuddy log
    which shows only high-level activity such as excessive friendly
    fire incidents, admin activity, and players complaining about
    misbehavior or saying suspicious things.

    This tool is built upon an included Counter-Strike log file parser
    which is provided in a simple derivable class.


Getting the software

    The current version of csbuddy is 1.2.

    The latest version of the software is available in a tarball here:
    http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/csbuddy/csbuddy-latest.tar.gz.

    The official URL for this Web site is
    http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/csbuddy/.


Requirements

    CSBuddy requires Python version 2.0 or greater.


License

    This code is released under the GPL.

	...


Release history [since 1.0]

    - 1.2; 2002 Nov 23.  Add -J option for finding by IP prefix
      (subnet); default data files directory changed to
      $HOME/.csbuddy instead of $HOME; improved invocation reference
      in documentation.

    - 1.1; 2002 Nov 10.  Convert commands to lowercase before
      checking; add -b option for brief reporting; add -P option for
      checking case insensitive substrings; use -V option for version
      information.

    - 1.0.3; 2002 Oct 14.  Bugfix:  Regular expression dictionary had
      ambiguous cases which showed up in later versions of Python
      (punish commands not appearing properly).

    - 1.0.2; 2002 Oct 10.  Support for kick and secure kick messages;
      save csbuddy.state file as binary to improve performance.

    - 1.0.1; 2002 Aug 27.  Minor bugfix:  Normal say events were not
      being reported in the .chat log file.


-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Love, the itch, and a cough cannot be hid.
\__/ Thomas Fuller, M.D.
    CAGE / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/cage/
 A cellular automaton simulation system in Python.


From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Fri Nov  1 11:01:31 2002
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 16:01:31 GMT
Subject: could python serve web scripts ?
References: <mailman.1036123142.8986.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <apu8gr$pq9le$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

black <blackprogramming at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Howdy~

>   I'm learning ASP these days and bothered VBScript much, I want to kick it off and I wonder if Python could be substitution. and what about other scripts if not, thanx~

Have a look at the WebWare: http://webware.sf.net
Havn't tried it myself, but it looks very promising.

Greetings, Uwe
-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt      Computer science is no more about Computers,
uwe.schmitt at num.uni-sb.de      than astronomy is about telescopes. (Dijkstra)
http://www.procoders.net           


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 20 03:37:13 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 08:37:13 GMT
Subject: zero-copy array slicing (and PEP 296)
References: <e5e6d03.0211190138.e7cfc0e@posting.google.com> <e5e6d03.0211191238.65b572c3@posting.google.com> <bvyC9.29870$744.1083099@news1.tin.it> <e5e6d03.0211192314.4156d409@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ZQHC9.42060$Yw.1987239@news2.tin.it>

Trevor wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<bvyC9.29870>
>> Wouldn't it be simpler if your functions also accepted optional
>> parameters
>> for offset and size in bytes?  So the user could call
>> 
>> hash(bytes, 128)
>> encrypt(bytes)
>> encrypt(bytes, start, finish-start)
>> 
>> ...?
> 
> Yeah, I could do that.  But if the language handled this it would
> simplify the function interface and my code (I wouldn't need to check
> for indexing errors, for example), and I could give users the more
> familiar slice syntax.
> 
> I noticed that PEP 296, for a 'bytes' type, would do just what I want.
>  I wonder how that's coming, and if it might be part of Python 2.3...

Might be, but do you want to _require_ 2.3 as a prereq for using
your extension?  That's much more serious than requiring Numeric,
which after all anybody could download and install even today - it
will be ages before 2.2 is replaced everywhere with 2.3, and that's
starting from when 2.3 definitive is out, and when will THAT be?
There is absolutely no deadline pressure on 2.3 -- it will come when
it's right.  And what if bytes doesn't make it into 2.3...?

If "giving the familiar slice syntax" is crucial you may expose a
type of your own, call its factory 'wrap' for example, and accept
both of the forms:
    wrap(bytes, start, finish-start)
    wrap(bytes)[start:finish]

That's STILL handier than what you were asking for in the first
place, which did NOT as you had hypothesized it support slice
syntax -- it was something like bytes.subsequence(start, finish).


Me, I'd go with Numeric -- partly because it defies belief that
somebody may need encryption and the like and NOT need some of
the many other conveniences Numeric offer (I have not yet done
any evaluation of whether the time is ripe to use Numarray in
lieu of Numeric -- that's a separate choice).


Alex



From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Wed Nov  6 15:21:12 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 20:21:12 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.1036579568.14685.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasiudo.2ku.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <mailman.1036579568.14685.python-list at python.org>,
	Carel Fellinger wrote:
> Ofcourse for parrot this isn't a show stopper per see, as parrot
> doesn't have to translate into each of the supported languages, it
> just has to understand them.  But still, parrot will have to support
> all the dark corners of all supported languages, quite a mess me thinks.

Parrot will still have an NxM problem with datatypes.  Parrot supports
datatypes through PMCs, which are basically arrays of C functions
equivalent to PyObject, so you'd have a PerlInt, PerlString,
PythonInt, PythonString, etc.  Different PMCs would have different
results for various operations, so PerlInt 1 + PerlString "2" == 3,
while PythonInt 1 + PythonString "2" raises TypeError.

Bridging data types across languages allows the NxM specter to
reappear.  What does PerlString "2" + PythonInt 1 do?  Who decides?
When someone writes RubyInt and RubyString (assuming Ruby's strings
aren't identical to Perl's), do the PythonString and PerlString
maintainers need to add support for them?

Perl's strings are mutable and Python's aren't; do we need to copy all
the string parameters whenever Python code calls Perl code?  Or will
it work as long as the Perl code doesn't trying modifying a string?
So much for seamless cross-language calls, then.

Even for the more limited world of Python extensions, it's hard to
ensure that data types interoperate as much as possible.  For the
wider, weirder world of "all datatypes for all scripting languages",
arranging sensible conversions will be even more difficult.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
PROSPERO: A turn or two I'll walk, 
 To still my beating mind.
      -- _The Tempest_, IV, i



From daniel at dittmar.net  Thu Nov 28 19:26:47 2002
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 01:26:47 +0100
Subject: Services in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1038527560.11696.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1038527560.11696.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as6c8c$d79$1@news.eusc.inter.net>

Ricardo M. Reyes wrote:
> I'm considering using Python to write a little smtp server, to do some
> automated processing of emails in my office, and I need to know if
> it's possible to make a server in Python that runs permanently under NT
> server, even when there's no user logged in, like if it was a service.

http://www.python.org/windows/win32/#NTServices

Daniel



From akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org  Wed Nov  6 12:46:09 2002
From: akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 17:46:09 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasilb1.201.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>

In article <3DC8CDDD.7050103 at mindspring.com>,
	Andrew Dalke wrote:
> It didn't happen.  Writing those translators are hard because each
> of the languages has different object models, which must be implemented
> nearly perfectly.  Guile is a full-fledge language built on years of

There's also the problem of motivation: who's going to write those
translators?  

    Tcl and Python programmers?  They have nicely usable
    implementations already.  Translation to Guile would buy them
    nothing, except for having to rewrite every single C extension.

    Guile programmers?  If they're Guile programmers, they must like 
    programming in Scheme.  Why would they work on translators for languages
    they'll never use?

A Guile programmer might write a Python translator out of pure
bloody-minded evangelism, of course, but it would require supernatural
determination to continue *maintaining* it for the long-term, and
there would still be the risk that the outside community would look at
the translator and ignore it, saying (it's too slow | it doesn't run
extension X that I really need | Guile doesn't run on my platform).
Similar arguments can applied to translators to Parrot, of course.

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
ABBESS: In food, in sport, and life-preserving rest 
 To be disturbed would mad man or beast.
      -- _The Comedy of Errors_, V, i


From donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk  Wed Nov 13 11:35:51 2002
From: donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk (Donal K. Fellows)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:35:51 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DD12795.23E2F02F@man.ac.uk> <3DD1770F.4FEAB063@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DD27F67.AA0247FA@man.ac.uk>

Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> Donal K. Fellows wrote:
>> OK, let's go for a more concrete question.  What sequence of bytecodes
>> would let me open a socket and talk to a remote host?  The Parrot I/O
>> operation opcodes don't mention anything about sockets and nor can I
>> tell how I would invoke a piece of helper C or C++ to do the job on my
>> behalf.
> 
> Just as there are "stdio", "unix", and "win32" ParrotIO layers, one
> would define a "socket" layer (and maybe an "xti" layer, for the really
> adventurous).  Obviously, this needs a bit more C code to be added.
> 
> Once that layer is added, you could read from and write to sockets just
> like you would from files.

OK, what sequence of bytecodes would instantiate and invoke those layers?  The
expositions I've found online so far have been rather too dry for me to actually
see how such a thing could be done.

Donal (fed up of hand-waving, particularly in his day job.  Must write code...)
-- 
"Windows is a car with square wheels (architecture) and a huge engine (hype,
 etc.), capable of of making the car move despite the square wheels.  Linux
 is a car with round wheels but a small engine, capable of making the car go
 despite the small engine."                  -- John Latham <jtl at cs.man.ac.uk>


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov  5 21:46:17 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 02:46:17 GMT
Subject: Asking a user for the root password and executing root only c  ommands...
References: <apqh92$pve$0@216.39.172.122> <memo.20021105173606.120B@a.radioscape.com>
Message-ID: <aq9vpp$gd7$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:36 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), mark.charsley at REMOVE_THIS.radioscape.com (Mark Charsley) wrote:

>In article <apqh92$pve$0 at 216.39.172.122>, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) 
>wrote:
>
>> Kind of funny (not) that /sbin/shutdown must be run as root,
>
which is obviously the correct thing
>Thus preventing plain users logged in over telnet /ssh etc from rebooting 
>your machine.
right
>
whereas
>> but by default any doorknob rattler could kick it off with ctrl-alt-del
>> without being asked for a password. Not a cool default config IMO ;-/
>
>Thus providing anyone with accesss to the console's power switch a more 
>computer-friendly way of rebooting a locked-up machine than power-cycling 
>it.
It's a bit too friendly for my taste ;-) I accidentally did it too many times,
because I am used to the the keying pattern to get past the locking screensaver
on my NT box, so when I turn to the linux box I just do the same if I am at all
distracted.

In my situation, I'm not worried about malicious people who could push the
power button or pull the plug. If I were, I would use the lock that's built
in to the case for that old box. Or lock the whole thing in a ventilated closet,
etc.

>
>Seems a cool config to me.
If your windows keyboard and linux keyboard were close, and you switched frequently
back and forth, it probably wouldn't seem so cool, just practically.

But on principle, I am against too "friendly" _defaults_. They are responsible
for a heck of a lot of trouble. IMO, you should have to make a positive
decision to enable stuff during install, not take trouble to disable stuff.

I am going to rebuild my NT system on a bigger disk, and I procrastinate because
I'd really like to lock it down, but to do so is such a frustrating fight. BTW,
is there a lockdown script in Python that would ease the pain? I haven't even
googled ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From mgerrans at mindspring.com  Mon Nov 18 23:53:13 2002
From: mgerrans at mindspring.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:53:13 -0800
Subject: classifier systems re-coded in Python?
References: <mailman.1037670692.6438.python-list@python.org> <182dnaFhsdyUN0SgXTWcrg@comcast.com> <dwiC9.53310$Lg2.15307128@news2.news.adelphia.net> <VtadnbQSCav-X0SgXTWcpA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <arcg57$kg9$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>

Google web APIs: http://www.google.com/apis/





From JJ at JJ.com  Thu Nov 14 21:07:52 2002
From: JJ at JJ.com (JohnJacob)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:07:52 GMT
Subject: BUG URLLIB2
References: <3DD43DA7.5070004@libero.it> <m2lm3vhcg0.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <YFYA9.297$B85.33011@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"John Hunter" <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:m2lm3vhcg0.fsf at mother.paradise.lost...
> >>>>> "bart" == bart  <e_viola at libero.it> writes:
>
>     bart> I'm an italian student and my problem consists about
>     bart> urllib2; urlopen function, sometimes, give me old (and
>     bart> inexactly) url because the site has moved in a new location
>     bart> but urlopen doesn't undestand it and return 403 error
>     bart> FORBIDDEN.
>
> I don't think you can describe this as a bug; it's a feature!  python
> provides exceptions to handle, well, exceptional circumstances, such
> as trying to access a web site that you are forbidden to access.  When
> this happens, an 'exception' is raised, and there is a mechanism to
> handle the exception.

Except that this web site doesn't appear to be forbidden. I can view it just
fine with IE6, but when I try it with urllib2, I get the same error.
Nonetheless, I have no idea why this is happening.




From printers at sendme.cz  Fri Nov  1 16:37:40 2002
From: printers at sendme.cz (A)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 22:37:40 +0100
Subject: HTTP 1.0 or 1.1 ?
Message-ID: <3DC30234.13843.60D71C2@localhost>

Hi,
I use httplib for HTTP 1.0 .It worked well until today.
When I use 
#############
h = httplib.HTTP(self.server)
h.putrequest("POST", PostingString)
h.putheader("Content-type", "application/x-www-form-urlencoded")
h.putheader('User-Agent','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; Win 9x 4.90')
h.putheader('Host', self.server)
h.putheader("Content-length", "%d" % len(params))
h.putheader('Accept', 'text/plain')
h.endheaders()
h.send(params)
self.reply, self.msg, self.hdrs = h.getreply()
#############

self.reply returns -1 and self.hdrs is NONE.
Through a sniffer I,however, found out that server's response was

[107 byte(s) of data]
 HTTP/1.1 200OK 
 Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0 
 Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 20:59:46 GMT
 Content-type: text/html


Does it mean I can not get headers through HTTP 1.0 ???
And what does self.reply = -1  mean?

Thanks for help.
Ladislav







From claird at lairds.com  Tue Nov  5 07:45:52 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 12:45:52 -0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <usffc087vtip40@corp.supernews.com>

In article <aq8cut$4pr$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>, Frodo Morris  <""> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Beowulfs (although why you'd be using byte-compiled languages in 
>parallel computing is beyond me), because you could use inetd or similar 
			.
			.
			.
To catch up with the Javans.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com  Mon Nov  4 16:14:12 2002
From: jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com (Jim)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:14:12 GMT
Subject: pyqt rules
References: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <mailman.1036370164.21605.python-list@python.org> <2Dkx9.42039$Lg2.11444432@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1036400645.4450.python-list@python.org> <aq6gl5$k20$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <3DC6E304.6070507@SPAMnwinternet.com>

GerritM wrote:
> "Phil Thompson" <phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk> schreef in bericht
> news:mailman.1036400645.4450.python-list at python.org...
> <...snip...>

>>>>The binary of PyQt for Qt NC is at
>>>>http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/download.php

>>>So I get the binary (exe's) for both...run 'em and now I can do PyQt?

>>Correct - so long as you conform to the license conditions.
>>
>>Phil
> 
> 
> The license conditions sound awefully complex again. They assume a clear
> separation between private and professional life, which I don't experience
> as such. Although Eric looks nice, the license issues sound too
> complicating, I prefer the openness of Python. This means I will have to
> work with the clearly less powerfull but simple Idle


If "openness" is the controlling factor, you can run the
GPL'd versions of Qt/PyQt on any open OS (*BSD, Linux)
free of charge.

from: http://www.trolltech.com/developer/faqs/noncomm.html

"What is the Qt Non-Commercial Edition for Microsoft Windows?
-----------------------------------------------------------

The Non-Commercial Edition is the Qt for Windows toolkit,
licensed for private development of non-commercial software
in a non-commercial setting.

A non-commercial setting means that you must not use the
package in the course of your employment or whilst engaged
in activities that will be compensated.

A non-commercial application is an application that cannot
be sold, leased, rented or otherwise distributed for
recompense.

You may freely use Qt Non-Commercial Edition for:

* Running software legally developed by others
* Developing non-commercial software"

It doesn't look that complicated to me.

Jim



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 11 03:17:27 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:17:27 -0800
Subject: Reading code and writing code
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
	 <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
	 <3DCD8571.6CACEA04@alcyone.com> <mailman.1036997596.17197.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DCF6797.262C5B6A@alcyone.com>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:

> This is not the same real world I live in!
> 
> In my real world, I probably spend at least 10x as much time READING
> code as I do WRITING it.  I certainly read more of my own code than of
> anyone elses, but I still have to *read* it when I come back to it
> after
> more than a few minutes... especially when it is a few months or
> years.
> 
> A significant fraction of that reading time is spent looking at pieces
> of paper with toner on them; and much of the remaining time uses
> 'less',
> or a webbrowser, or some other non-editor application.  Even in an
> editor, I like to look at a page full of code to grok the sense, and
> mostly not move the cursor around to cause bracket matches to
> highlight.

But in that same real world, part and parcel with automatic completion
and parenthesis matching is autoindentation.  Well-written Lisp (or
Lisp-like) code will be indented in a reasonable way, assisted by your
editor, that make it easy to read, whether or not you are looking at it
in the editor, or with less/more, or print it out afterwards.

> I LIKE the conveniences that good editors provide, including matching
> parentheses and other structures.  But the amount of help that this
> can
> possibly provide in my life experience is pretty small.

Sounds like you're using the wrong editor, then :-).

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The more violent the love, the more violent the anger.
\__/ _Burmese Proverbs_ (tr. Hla Pe)
    CSBuddy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/csbuddy/
 A Counter-Strike server log file monitor in Python.


From pu at myRealBox.com  Fri Nov  1 10:37:55 2002
From: pu at myRealBox.com (pu)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:37:55 +0100
Subject: ActivePython 2.2.1
Message-ID: <3dc29edd_2@news.vo.lu>

Hello all,
I am currently considering to use ActivePython, but I have two questions
about this:
- is ActivePython 2.2.1 based on Python 2.2.2, or on an other version?
- what is the normal elapsed time between an official Python release, and
the release of an updated version of ActivePython?
-Patrick




From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Nov 12 15:44:34 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:44:34 -0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) wrote in 
news:m3adkevs4y.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de:

> DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> 
>> Is there a source form example of the py docs,
>> and perhaps a statement of what is required of the processing?
> 
> Please have a look at
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/doc/doc.html
> 
> for a specification of the Python documentation format. There are
> certainly many examples for that, see the Doc directory of the Python
> distibution or CVS.


I hadn't realised it was Latex? Sorry.


> 
>>   Just to take a look at producing docbook from that,
>> and to see if XML/XSLT/XSL-FO processing chain could do the job 
>> please?
> 
> What is your question?

I too see the benefits of the toolsets available for XML, and wondered
if the problems were manageable.
Looking at the volume of documentation, it would require a (mainly) 
automated transfer old to new, just wondering how big the task was.

As is hinted at, http://www.python.org/doc/current/doc/structured.html
I do believe XML could do the job.
   Building your own schema/stylesheets is an option, a lot could be 
saved by borrowing what has gone before. NIH is a weak excuse IMHO :-)

regards DaveP


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Nov  4 10:25:11 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 10:25:11 -0500
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <mailman.1036403524.17682.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aq63gn$fqv$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1036403524.17682.python-list at python.org>,
Simon Brunning  <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> wrote:
>> Aahz wrote:
>>>
>>> She asked me what -- if any -- Java-based tools were used by
>>> the experienced Java programmers who made that claim.  She thinks that
>>> those tools are superior to plain text editors (which are really all
>>> that's needed for Python).
> 
>Hmm. Well, Java is my day job, and I've been using Eclipse for a year
>or so.  For me, the refactorings work just fine. Now, I've not used
>EMACS, so I can't do a comparison, but Eclipse's refactorings are a
>*whole* lot better that doing refactoring with a 'dumb' text editor.

Perfect.  So which is easier: Python or Java?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Project Vote Smart: http://www.vote-smart.org/


From rodrigobamboo at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 20 17:34:19 2002
From: rodrigobamboo at hotmail.com (Rodrigo B. de Oliveira)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 14:34:19 -0800
Subject: Python embedding question: how to expose a new "builtin"?
References: <ad9ea6f1.0211190807.73bfe1a1@posting.google.com> <awtC9.38553$Yw.1818910@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ad9ea6f1.0211201434.6860f92@posting.google.com>

Ok. I tried to figure out what's wrong with my code but...

Here's the definition of isapy_Application (_pyapplication's type):

<snip language="C++">
static PyTypeObject isapy_ApplicationType =
{
    PyObject_HEAD_INIT(NULL)
    0,
    "isapy.Application",
    sizeof(isapy_Application),
    0,
    isapy_Application_dealloc, /*tp_dealloc*/
    0,          /*tp_print*/
    0,          /*tp_getattr*/
    0,          /*tp_setattr*/
    0,          /*tp_compare*/
    0,          /*tp_repr*/
    0,          /*tp_as_number*/
    0,          /*tp_as_sequence*/
    0,          /*tp_as_mapping*/
    0,          /*tp_hash */
	0, //ternaryfunc tp_call;
    0, //reprfunc tp_str;
    0, //getattrofunc tp_getattro;
    0, //setattrofunc tp_setattro;

    /* Functions to access object as input/output buffer */
    0, //PyBufferProcs *tp_as_buffer;

    /* Flags to define presence of optional/expanded features */
    Py_TPFLAGS_HAVE_CLASS, //long tp_flags;

    "ISAPY Application Wrapper", //char *tp_doc; /* Documentation
string */

    /* Assigned meaning in release 2.0 */
    /* call function for all accessible objects */
    0, //traverseproc tp_traverse;

    /* delete references to contained objects */
    0, //inquiry tp_clear;

    /* Assigned meaning in release 2.1 */
    /* rich comparisons */
    0, //richcmpfunc tp_richcompare;

    /* weak reference enabler */
    0, //long tp_weaklistoffset;

    /* Added in release 2.2 */
    /* Iterators */
    0, //getiterfunc tp_iter;
    0, //iternextfunc tp_iternext;

    /* Attribute descriptor and subclassing stuff */
    isapy_Application_methods, //struct PyMethodDef *tp_methods;
    0, //struct PyMemberDef *tp_members;
    isapy_Application_getsetlist, //struct PyGetSetDef *tp_getset;
    0, //struct _typeobject *tp_base;
    0, //PyObject *tp_dict;
    0, //descrgetfunc tp_descr_get;
    0, //descrsetfunc tp_descr_set;
    0, //long tp_dictoffset;
    0, //initproc tp_init;
    0, //allocfunc tp_alloc;
    0, //newfunc tp_new;
    0, //freefunc tp_free; /* Low-level free-memory routine */
    0, //inquiry tp_is_gc; /* For PyObject_IS_GC */
    0, //PyObject *tp_bases;
    0, //PyObject *tp_mro; /* method resolution order */
    0, //PyObject *tp_cache;
    0, //PyObject *tp_subclasses;
    0 //PyObject *tp_weaklist;
};
</snip>

Here's how I create an isapy_Application instance:
<snip language="C++">
isapy_Application* newApplication(PythonApplication* application)
{
	assert(application);
	isapy_Application* pyapp = PyObject_New(isapy_Application,
&isapy_ApplicationType);
	pyapp->__init__(application);
	return pyapp;
}
</snip>

As you can see, isapy_Application is a wrapper for the
PythonApplication C++ class.

Here's how I use the definitions above:
<snip language="C++">
void PythonApplication::installApplicationBuiltin()
{
	_pyapplication = newApplication(this);

	PyObject* __builtin__ = PyImport_ImportModule("__builtin__");			
	PyObject_SetAttrString(__builtin__, "application",
(PyObject*)_pyapplication);
	Py_DECREF(__builtin__);	
}
<snip>

Anything wrong so far?

And here's the module initialization routine:
<snip language="C++">
void initisapy() 
{
	isapy_ExtensionControlBlockType.ob_type = &PyType_Type;
	isapy_ApplicationType.ob_type = &PyType_Type;

    if (PyType_Ready(&isapy_ExtensionControlBlockType) &&
		PyType_Ready(&isapy_ApplicationType))
	{
        return;
	}

	PyObject* module = Py_InitModule3("isapy", isapy_methods, "ISAPY
module");

	Py_INCREF((PyObject *)&isapy_ExtensionControlBlockType);
	PyModule_AddObject(module, "ExtensionControlBlock", (PyObject
*)&isapy_ExtensionControlBlockType);
	Py_INCREF((PyObject *)&isapy_ApplicationType);
	PyModule_AddObject(module, "Application", (PyObject
*)&isapy_ApplicationType);
}
</snip>


I won't give up because I really want to use python for my web
development (and right now I'm tied to customers who want/need IIS).

Thanks again,
Rodrigo


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 12 15:38:09 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:38:09 -0800
Subject: Installing dislin (scientific data plotting software)
References: <3DD12A29.8B34ED2C@cs.nott.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <hrorqa.sq3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Turhan Ozen fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 12 November 2002 
08:19 am:

> I downloaded dl-80-py.zip and after unzipping, I installed dislin,
> then I added the following lines to the autoexec.bat:
> 
> SET DISLIN = c:\program files\dislin
> SET PYTHONPATH = C:\program files\dislin\python
> 
> But It seems that I have not installed it properly. When I choose the
> dislin or readme files from from the windows2000's
> start>programs>dispy, I get an error message dialogue box with the
> title "readme" and message
> "Open error in c:\program".  When I try to use dislin in python it

        May not help, but try putting " around those paths... or convert from 
long-file-name to the 8.3 MS-DOS variant (if you can find it).

        set dislin= "c:\program files\dislin"
or
        set dislin= c:\progr~01\dislin

        It took me forever once to figure out why my W98 path wasn't working 
(I've got tons of "set path=xyz;%path%;abc" structures; they were 
breaking on embedded spaces).

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Mon Nov 25 07:58:59 2002
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:58:59 +0100
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <pan.2002.11.25.12.39.00.361035@imperialviolet.org>
Message-ID: <3DE21E93.2B6EE3C3@jandecaluwe.com>

Adam Langley wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:21:37 +0100, Jan Decaluwe wrote:
> 
> >     class MyInt(object):
> >         def __init__(self, val):
> >             self.val = val
> >         def __getattr__(self, attr):
> >             return getattr(self.val, attr)
> >
> >
> 
> >>>> a = MyInt(3)
> >>>> a.__add__(4)
> > 7
> >>>> a + 4
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > TypeError: unsupported operand types for +: 'MyInt' and 'int'
> 
> (Firstly, I should point out that it *does* work if one makes MyInt an
> old-style class)
> 
> Well, the language reference states that:
>   "The + (addition) operator yields the sum of its arguments. The
>    arguments must either both be numbers or both sequences of the
>    same type. In the former case, the numbers are converted to a
>    common type and then added together. In the latter case, the
>    sequences are concatenated."
> 
> Since MyInt is neither a number (not derived from int) nor a sequence, the
> TypeError is technically correct. But, since __add__ is valid, it does
> somewhat violate the principle of least surprise from my point of view.

Note that my example works perfectly fine with old-style classes though,
even though one of the operands is of type 'instance' in that case.
Given python's dynamic nature, I think you should read "is a number"
as "looks like a number".

Regards, Jan

--
Jan Decaluwe
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Nov 27 05:31:39 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 05:31:39 -0500
Subject: Get yesterday's date
References: <3de49b30$0$20703$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3DE49F0B.60604@rogers.com>

mxDateTime is often used (and is probably the easiest approach):

 >>> from mx.DateTime import *
 >>> now()
<DateTime object for '2002-11-27 05:27:05.00' at 1630918>
 >>> now()+ RelativeDateTime( days=-1, hour=0, minute=0, second=0 )
<DateTime object for '2002-11-26 00:00:00.00' at 16880c0>
 >>> now()+RelativeDateTime( days=-1 )
<DateTime object for '2002-11-26 05:28:40.00' at 16881d0>
 >>> (now()+ RelativeDateTime( days=-1, hour=0, minute=0, second=0 
)).ticks()
1038286800.0

http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxDateTime.html

HTH,
Mike

Michel COMBE wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I need to run a SQL query on a MySQL database to get yesterday's records.
>How do I specify "yesterday" ?
>Isn't there some kind of date arithmetic in Python or should I use an
>external library ?
>Which library ?
>
>Thanks for your answer
>
>Michel COMBE
>
>
>  
>

-- 
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Thu Nov 21 11:22:52 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:22:52 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <87u1ib6bte.fsf@key.localdomain> <3u3D9.49382$Yw.2293340@news2.tin.it> <874rabdo3t.fsf@key.localdomain> <5r6D9.50977$Yw.2347638@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DDD08BA.6060804@nyc.rr.com>


Alex Martelli wrote:
> Macros let you design a different language on top of whatever language
> you have (that supports full-power macros).  That's my major beef with
> them,...

different bad, additional good. :) ie, don't use macros to come up with 
a better keyword than IF, use it to add something new to the language.

My Cells project does sick things with CLOS, and all with a couple of 
macros. Instead of DEFCLASS I have DEFMODEL which does a ton of stuff 
with which the user /really/ need not be concerned. But without macros I 
either have to buy a Lisp vendor and change the language, or cut and 
paste huge wadges of internal wiring to make a new class, carefully 
working through it changing all FOOs to BARs.

Well, tell you what, if I manage to port Cells to Python we'll be able 
to compare. Possibly some cool Python feature will offset the loss of 
macros. Metaclasses?


-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Nov 20 22:26:08 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:26:08 -0500
Subject: How to access a property in Outlook using win32com?
In-Reply-To: <Xns92CD23A20FB10jonasbhomese@195.17.59.36>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEAKCOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Jonas Bengtsson]
> By using win32com.client I am able to access my mails (as
> MailItem objects) in Outlook using Python. The common stuff like
> Subject, Body, To etc is easy to access. But I have no idea how to
> access the property PR_TRANSPORT_MESSAGE_HEADERS. I found it by
> using OutlookSpy [1].
>
> Can anyone tell me how to access that property?

Heh.  I doubt it, but we can *show* you:  check out the Outlook2000
directory in the spambayes project:

    http://tinyurl.com/2vt5

and especially MAPIMsgStoreMsg._GetMessageText() in msgstore.py there.

PR_TRANSPORT_MESSAGE_HEADERS is a MAPI property (not part of the *Outlook*
object model), and it even took Mark Hammond several days to figure out how
to access it without going thru CDO (Collaboration Data Objects -- yet
another API-on-an-API-on-an-...).

Be forewarned that the exact meaning of PR_TRANSPORT_MESSAGE_HEADERS isn't
defined by MAPI, may contain lines that aren't valid SMTP headers, and can
ne downright strange when looking at msgs handled by an Exchange server.
For msgs delivered via POP3, they're what you expect.  Mostly.




From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Mon Nov 18 14:57:50 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:57:50 +0100
Subject: Serial Port
References: <mailman.1037306122.3207.python-list@python.org> <3dd47570$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net> <3dd514e8$0$4448$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <arahhn$urd$1@news.netpower.no> <3dd90d82$0$22206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <arbglm$h7n$1@news.netpower.no>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:3dd90d82$0$22206$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> In article <arahhn$urd$1 at news.netpower.no>, David Brown wrote:
> > "Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
> >
> >> On a slight tangent, anybody know where there's documentation
> >> or examples of doing stuff like overlapped serial I/O under
> >> Win32 with events and callbacks and suchlike in Python?  I
> >> haven't found a copy of the Python on Win32 book yet...
> >
> > I find it easier to run serial communication in a seperate
> > thread if I need asynchronous communication.
>
> Yes, it's far easier to use a thread per port.
>
> But my task is to try to troubleshoot serial driver bugs
> triggered by certain sequences of Win32 system calls.  My
> customers are dyed-in-the-wool Win32 hacks who do things the
> most obtuse, complex way possible.  They love callbacks and I/O
> completion ports and all that cruft.  When they do stuff like
> that and report problems, my requirement isn't to write a
> program that performs serial I/O, it's to do it in a certain
> way in order to reproduce problems reported by customers.
>

I have had the same sort of situation - everything works fine for my test
code, nothing works for the customer.  I can't help here - only sympathise.

> > You don't normally have so many serial ports open at a time
> > that the threading overhead is significant,
>
> I don't?  I usually limit my test cases to 32 ports if
> possible, but on occasion have to use 100+ ports.
>

Ok, correction - *I* don't normally have that many ports open at a time.  I
thought I was unusual in having 6 serial ports on my PC...  Out of
curiosity, what is the application?

> > it is much easier than messing with the overlapped I/O stuff,
> > and it is platform-independant.
>
> Oh, I know it's easier doing sych I/O, and I don't care about
> platform independance.  I've never been asked to troubleshoot a
> Win32 driver under Linux.  :)
>
> > To be entirely honest, though, the couple of Python programs I
> > have written so far that use the serial port have not bothered
> > with threading either - they just send out something, and wait
> > for a reply or timeout (using the inWaiting() function from
> > pyserial, along with time.sleep). But if I needed something
> > more advanced, then I *would* use threads - I've done it in
> > Delphi, and it works fine.
>
> I use threads a lot for serial communications too.  Sometimes
> one-thread-per-port isn't what is required.
>

I sounds like I've been trying to help with the wrong problem, and I don't
think I can be of much help to the real problem.  Good luck!





From andrew.markebo at telia.com  Tue Nov 19 15:51:37 2002
From: andrew.markebo at telia.com (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:51:37 GMT
Subject: URLLIB2 EXCEPTION
References: <3DDA94E9.8090809@libero.it>
Message-ID: <m31y5h8equ.fsf@flognat.myip.org>

[...]
|    File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/httplib.py", line 231, in _read_status
|      line = self.fp.readline()
| IOError: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer
|
| I understood that connection can be reseted but I managed this
| exception cases: HTTPError and URLError. I don't know another
| exception that can be generate in urllib2. Besides IOError exception
| doesn't present inside urllib2. What can I do to resolve my problem?
| Where I can found (web site, manual and other) a solution?

But urllib2 uses sockets.. that can throw IOError.. 

    /Andy

-- 
 The eye of the beholder rests on the beauty!



From p.nilsson at xtra.co.nz  Mon Nov 25 09:12:00 2002
From: p.nilsson at xtra.co.nz (Paul Nilsson)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:12:00 +0100
Subject: sockets and encryption
References: <8hi2uuguh0l0jlmrao1fjshle68op1kt4s@4ax.com> <mailman.1038191676.26279.python-list@python.org> <lip3uu0r7u1l2v0rpv1v1n9klh7me7m5l3@4ax.com> <m3k7j2j69u.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <q8b4uu0h4lrhlibon9gjahufl96sv5mh6t@4ax.com>

On 25 Nov 2002 11:25:01 +0100, an infinite amount of monkeys hijacked
the computer of martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) and wrote:

>This is a misconception. Neither is HTML ascii, nor is XML unicode.
>When transmitted over the wire, both are byte strings.
>
>By "XML is Unicode", people usually mean that an XML document is
>*conceptually* a sequence of Unicode characters. The same is true for
>HTML (formally atleast since HTML 3.0 or so; conceptually, you can
>apply this view for all HTML versions).
>
>When represented in a byte-oriented medium, an encoding has to be
>applied to the sequence of Unicode characters. Both HTML and XML allow
>usage of arbitrary encodings: "ASCII", "iso-8859-1", "utf-8", you name
>them, we have them.

I understand that then encoding must be translated to a byte stream,
however this wasn't my concern. I was meaning to imply that my limited
knowledge of SSL had only seen it used in applications transferring
data in defined character sets, Such as unicode. I was not sure if it
was even possible to open up an SSL connection and use it for a pure
bytestream.

My other problem about SSL is that I thought it required a cerificate,
I didn't know how this worked, and I certainly didn't want to pay for
a certificate nor go through the hassle of setting up an authority
especially for this program. I know that since it was a custom client
and server (ie. I'm not creating a server which needs to interoperate
with clients which already understand the SSL protocol) there should
be no problem using RSA keys to establish the connection and blowfish
to trnsfer data, in a similar way to how SSH works.

Thanks for clearing up a few misconceptions thou :)

Cheers, Paul


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 12 16:23:42 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:23:42 -0800
Subject: newbie Q: shortcuts for long module names?
References: <mailman.1037115622.16554.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD1715E.45E69912@alcyone.com>

Ken Godee wrote:

> Couldn't you also.....
> 
> from this.is.a.long.module.name import *
> 
> Calling a top level attribute from the module couldn't
> get any shorter than that.

You could, but it's generally not a good idea.  from ... import * tends
to cause unwanted name collisions.  It is usually considered bad style,
and rightly so.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If a thing is worth doing, then it is worth doing badly.
\__/ G.K. Chesterton
    ZOE / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/zoe/
 A simple Python OpenGL rendering engine.


From ebe at offworld.com  Sat Nov 16 12:08:57 2002
From: ebe at offworld.com (ebe)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:08:57 -0000
Subject: Insanely simple problem somehow appears impossible
Message-ID: <RdwB9.884$Nb5.250778@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>

I am using the win32 extensions to implement a simple message loop. What I
want to do is respond to messages if they are incoming, but process an
application update function if there are no messages.

The function "PumpWaitingMessages" doesn't seem to do what it appears. The
function simply hangs waiting for messages, and even when one is posted, the
function NEVER returns. The return case seems to be when it receives a
WM_QUIT message. This is rediculous frankly. Is there no way at all I can
process messages and do application updates in the same thread?? I am not
going to spawn another thread just to intercept windows messages. I am
writing an Open GL based game, not a windows app.

Any help would really be appreciated, I've already spent days trying to find
another solution, and nothing seems available.





From tismer at tismer.com  Fri Nov  8 10:21:40 2002
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:21:40 +0100
Subject: PySol Windows binaries, anyone?
References: <mailman.1036695670.29735.python-list@python.org> <afe3b146.0211072015.e3ddd81@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DCBD684.5030402@tismer.com>

Brian Lenihan wrote:
> Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036695670.29735.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> 
>>Does somebody have a working PySol for me?
>>Or maybe one of the last working installers is still
>>around? I'd also put this on my website for people
>>to download. Markus seems to be no longer reachable
>>by email.
> 
> 
> I have some stuff here which should help:
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/brian_l

Thanks a lot to all the people who offered help.

Brian's solution seems to be best for me
since it comes with a patch to the most
recent version.

Many thanks, maybe I'll provide an installer, now :-)

p.s.:
I would still like to get a working 4.60, simply
in order to send it to a couple of sites, where
I retrieved versions which are not functioning.

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 14 01:38:24 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 01:38:24 -0500
Subject: What is the best way to join tuples?
References: <3dd32603$1_2@news.tm.net.my>
Message-ID: <5sKcnefXLKON2U6gXTWcqA@comcast.com>

"dique" <chezdique at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3dd32603$1_2 at news.tm.net.my...
> # I have two list of tuples, eg something like
> wxyTuple = [(1,1,1), (1,1,2), (1,2,1), (2,2,1)] # tuples of  (w,x,y)
> xyzTuple = [(1,1,0), (1,2,1), (1,1,2)] # tuples of (x,y,z)
>
> # and I want to join them together become (w,x,y,z), just like what
we used
> to do with RDBMS by joining two tables together, with x,y acting as
pivot.
> The result should be:
>
> wxyzTuple = [(1,1,1,0),(1,1,1,2),(1,1,2,1),(1,2,1,-1),(2,2,1,-1)] #
where -1
> is to indicate no match is found in xyzTuple

There are two approaches I would think about.

1. Sort both lists by (x,y) key and merge.

2. Put wxy items in dict mapping xy to w.  Then add xyz items, pairing
wz when both present.  Then extract key,value pairs and rewrite as
wanted.

Terry J. Reedy




From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Wed Nov  6 04:04:35 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?unknown-8bit?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:04:35 +0100
Subject: Adding ftputil to the Python distribution?
In-Reply-To: <aq6kpl$td1$1@news.online.de>
References: <aq6kpl$td1$1@news.online.de>
Message-ID: <20021106090434.GA390@gargamel.ghaering.test>

* Stefan Schwarzer <sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net> [2002-11-04 21:20 +0100]:
> ftputil is a module for accessing FTP hosts in a more abstract way than
> is possible with ftplib. ftputil hides the FTP protocol - and even the
> access to an FTP server. For example, reading from and writing to file-like
> objects corresponding to files on a remote host are possible.
> 
> ftputil may be of general enough use to put in into the Python standard
> library, I was told. Comments?

I'd find it a useful addition. It could also be used from a future VFS module.

-- Gerhard



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Thu Nov 21 10:38:52 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:38:52 -0500
Subject: Interfaces
References: <utjk4kf2ct1458@corp.supernews.com> <j4zns3cd1y.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <utpvgb3975iq6c@news.supernews.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:j4zns3cd1y.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> Lee Harr <missive at frontiernet.net> writes:
>
> > Are interfaces still a happening proposition?
>
> If you give it enough time (like 10 years or so), it might happen.
>
> > Did we decide that we are not interested? Or are we waiting to see
> > how this goes in Zope before making any commitment?
>
> Who is that "we" that you are referring to. I'm personally not very
> interested in interfaces as a language feature; I'm just fine with
> interfaces as a concept and documentation vehicle.
>
> What "we" are interested in is irrelevant. To make it happen, you need
> a single individual determined enough to make it happen. That
> individual should be prepared to get holes shot into the first 50
> proposals that she comes up with.
>
> IOW, it hasn't happened yet because it is really difficult.

I suspect part of the problem is that no one has made a really
compelling case yet. If you look at Java's interface implementation,
there are three things it does:

1. It compensates for a serious weakness in single inheritance.
2. It "gets around" the type system by allowing an object to
have several types outside of the standard single inheritance
hierarchy.
3. It allows a method to determine if an object provides the
function it needs.

Only 3 is relevant to Python. Python has multiple inheritance
and does not have static typing. If you use multiple inheritance
instead of interfaces, you can run the class hierarchy to
determine if a particular class is in the inheritance tree.

If you can come up with a really compelling #4, then it might
get done. Until the, I'm not holding my breath.

John Roth

>
> Regards,
> Martin




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Nov  5 13:01:36 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 10:01:36 -0800
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com> <use8fo2je674ad@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211051001.640e5f13@posting.google.com>

Lee Harr <missive at frontiernet.net> wrote in message news:<use8fo2je674ad at corp.supernews.com>...
> In article <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b at posting.google.com>, 
> Michele Simionato wrote:
> > Suppose I want to parse the following expression:
> > 
> >>>> exp='(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
> > 
> > I want to extract the first part, i.e. '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)'.
> > 
> 
> 
> n = 0
> for c in range(len(exp)):
>     l = exp[c]
>     if l == '(':
>         n += 1
>     elif l == ')':
>         n -= 1
>     if not n:
>         out = exp[0:c+1]
>         break
> print out

This is the same I did.


From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Thu Nov 14 20:24:18 2002
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:24:18 +0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
Message-ID: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F01BC96@mexper1.maptek.net.au>

>I think what's making the difference here is the quality/depth of the 
>reference guides, not the actual languages.  A "C/C++" reference that 
>is a total of 16 pages simply not comparable to a Python reference that

>is 124 pages.  C and C++ (two different languages, by the way) are not 
>about 8 times simpler than Python.
>  Far from it, in fact.

I disagree. C is a very simple language. Because of its simplicity, one
needs to write lots of C code to achieve complicated things. Python on
the other hand achieves complicated things using minimal code (Imagine
having to code a list slice in C). I doubt that the C / C++ reference
includes examples on slicing lists and using dictionaries, whereas the
Python reference would *have* to, as these constructs are integral to
the language.

What was I saying again?   I don't know, its too early on the
morning....

simonw.



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Nov 18 13:29:24 2002
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 19:29:24 +0100
Subject: Pythoncal, anyone? (My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255))
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org> <PoWcnQjwr8ECy06gXTWc3A@comcast.com> <3DD84FDA.3010708@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <wzwunapw8r.fsf@cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Greg Ewing <see_reply_address at something.invalid> (GE) writes:

GE> I have an idea: Suppose there were a "don't"
GE> statement that could be put in front of another
GE> statement to, effectively, comment it out,
GE> e.g.

GE>   def foo():
GE>     # This function does nothing
GE>     don't print "Hello"

GE> Then an empty generator could be written

GE>   def g():
GE>     don't yield None

def emptyGen():
    if 0: yield None
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 20 17:57:13 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:57:13 -0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037828015.2000.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arh40a$c09$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

nandrats at mail.mdanderson.org wrote:

> It's probably not very diplomatic to complain about it as a newbie, but it
> is more intimidating than helping.

It's a perfectly valid complaint to a thread which has gone light-years 
off-topic long ago. The fact that the complaint comes from a newbie, IMHO, 
gives it even more weight.

Cheers,

f.



From Padraig at Linux.ie  Fri Nov 22 09:45:13 2002
From: Padraig at Linux.ie (Padraig Brady)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:45:13 GMT
Subject: int() shortcoming?
References: <y8h3cptpttf.fsf@spinetta.mcs.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <3DDE4274.3070902@Linux.ie>

Matthew Knepley wrote:
>        Is there a reason I should have to specify the base for a string
> conversion using int() when it is already clear from the form? For instance:
> 
>>>>oct(15)
>>>
> '017'
> 
>>>>int('017')
>>>
> 17
> 
>>>>int('017', 8)
>>>
> 15
> 
> and hexidecimal actually generates an error.

I agree with you somewhat.
I think int() be default should behave like strtol(nptr, (char **)NULL, 0)
rather than strtol(nptr, (char **)NULL, 10);
However this is not backwards compatible.
I.E. int('017') would give a different answer.

see also:
http://tardis.redbrick.dcu.ie/391/groups.google.com

P?draig.



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Nov 21 07:35:29 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 13:35:29 +0100
Subject: __bases__ and type()
References: <mailman.1037675847.14310.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j44rabdrse.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Daniel Silva" <dansilva at lynx.dac.neu.edu> writes:

> User-built classes would have class as its only parent if they do not
> have inheritance, and a list of super-classes in case they do.
> 
> However, given a class C, class D, and a class E that inherits from both
> C and D, type(e) evaluates to ClassType, and e.__bases__ evaluates to
> (c,d).
> 
> Did I get the organization of things incorrectly?  How else should I
> organize it for type(), __bases__, and isinstance() to work as expected?

You should understand the difference between classes and types; since
Python 2.2, these are called old-style classes and new-style classes.

A class is an instance of the ClassType, a type is an instance of the
TypeType. Since Python 2.2, both have __bases__, but they have
slightly different semantics. One difference is that, for an instance
I of a type, "type(I) is I.__class__". For an instance of a class,
"type(I) is InstanceType", "type(I.__class__) is ClassType".  There
are more differences, like under what circumstances you can assign to
__class__.

If you want to implement the semantics of Python 2.2 correctly, you
could make your concept of "node" equivalent to that of "type" in
Python. Then, executing a class statement only creates a "node" if the
first base class also is a "node". Otherwise, you need to have a
"node" ClassType, and executing a class statement creates a an
instance thereof.

Or you could deviate from the Python semantics, and treat old-style
classes and new-style classes the same.

Regards,
Martin


From jonas.b at home.se  Wed Nov 20 21:30:14 2002
From: jonas.b at home.se (Jonas Bengtsson)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:30:14 GMT
Subject: How to access a property in Outlook using win32com?
Message-ID: <Xns92CD23A20FB10jonasbhomese@195.17.59.36>

Hi,
By using win32com.client I am able to access my mails (as MailItem objects) 
in Outlook using Python. The common stuff like Subject, Body, To etc is 
easy to access. But I have no idea how to access the property 
PR_TRANSPORT_MESSAGE_HEADERS. I found it by using OutlookSpy [1].

Can anyone tell me how to access that property?

Thanks in advance,
Jonas

[1] http://www.dimastr.com/outspy/default.htm


From pu at myRealBox.com  Sat Nov  2 18:13:58 2002
From: pu at myRealBox.com (pu)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 00:13:58 +0100
Subject: Tkinnter questions
Message-ID: <3dc45b3d_2@news.vo.lu>

Hello,
I have two questions regarding the code that follows, for which I cannot
find an answer in the TK doc:

1- the window always appears in the upper left corner of my screen - how can
I make it appear at the center of the screen ?
2- no button gets the focus, but I would like the "backup" button to have it
when the window show up.

-PU

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
import sys
import Tkinter
from puBackupIni import *

if __name__ == "__main__":

    def buttonCancel():
        tkRoot.quit()
    def buttonBackup():
        tkRoot.quit()

    tkRoot = Tkinter.Tk()
    tkRoot.title("puBackup")
    tkRow=0
    Tkinter.Label(tkRoot,text="Backing up "+backupId+" to
"+backupTo).grid(row=tkRow,column=0,columnspan=2,sticky="w")
    tkRow+=1

Tkinter.Button(tkRoot,text="Backup",command=buttonBackup,bd=4).grid(row=tkRo
w,column=0)

Tkinter.Button(tkRoot,text="Cancel",command=buttonCancel).grid(row=tkRow,col
umn=1)

    tkRoot.mainloop()
    print "end of main"





From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 19 23:46:59 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:46:59 -0800
Subject: Telnetlib help.  I need a case function.
References: <1d4aad28.0211191310.6300984a@posting.google.com> <6n1fra.or3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <344fra.or3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 19 November 
2002 08:05 pm:

        Talking to myself...

        I can't believe how many times I typed "your" when just "you" is 
appropriate! <G>

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From pieroul at attglobal.net  Sat Nov 16 22:38:40 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:38:40 -0500
Subject: My Python Editor "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE" doesnot
 refesh
References: <mailman.1037422524.22358.python-list@python.org> <utcha6tcots2ce@news.supernews.com> <3DD7587E.40607@nospam.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3DD70F40.1040703@attglobal.net>


laotseu wrote:
> <troll>
>   the One True Answer lies in two (2) words : Use Emacs
> </troll>
> 
> Laotseu
> -- 
> Ye Old Master Said :
> "Use Emacs"
> -- 
> 

Or, use CRiSP, which supports python.  You can run python interpreter in 
one (or several) windows right beside your code and then easily test it. 
      CRiSP runs on several platforms.

See
http://www.crisp.com/crisp/
http://www.crisp.demon.co.uk/index.html

Pierre



From rademacher at prostep.FTA-berlin.de  Thu Nov 28 05:01:49 2002
From: rademacher at prostep.FTA-berlin.de (Thomas Rademacher)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:01:49 +0100
Subject: [Tkinter] text widget update problem
Message-ID: <as4pfh$o590o$1@ID-28938.news.dfncis.de>

Hallo,

I want to write a text widget which can be filled step by step in dependent
on program sequence:
...
scrollbar = Scrollbar(frameMsg, orient=VERTICAL)
scrollbar.pack(fill=Y, side=RIGHT)
text = Text(frameMsg, bd=0,font='courier 8', width=960, height=450,
fg="black")
text.pack()
text.config(yscrollcommand=scrollbar.set)
scrollbar.config(command=text.yview)
...

The input of the text widget I create in a singleton logger class:
...
Logging.__msgHandle.insert(END, logString)
Logging.__msgHandle.update()  <--
...

I want to see the the output step by step during program sequence. But I
have following problems:
1. With Logging.__msgHandle.update() I get a program crash when all lines in
the widget filled. The widget does not show the following messages.
2. Without  Logging.__msgHandle.update() I get the my program output at the
end of the program and not step by step.

How can I resolve the problem? Who has any ideas? It is a singleton class
problem?
Thank's for your hints, Thomas




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 11 17:18:15 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:18:15 -0500
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037014155.15486.python-list@python.org> <uel9sryab.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037025979.11547.python-list@python.org> <u4raorv6r.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037031266.12200.python-list@python.org> <m34raoneo6.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <64acnYLsb8vcsU2gXTWcoA@comcast.com>

"Paul Rudin" <paul.rudin at ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:m34raoneo6.fsf at localhost.localdomain...
> >>>>> "holger" == holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:
>
>
>
>  holger>  Is there an obvious killer use case?  IOW can you
>  holger> state a problem where the use of a ternary operator comes
in
>  holger> really handy?  Sorry if this sounds dumb to you but i am
interested.
>
> I'm not sure it's that big a deal, but looking back over some of the
> bits and pieces I wrote over the weekend there are a number of code
> fragments that follow this kind of pattern:
>
> def foo(x,y,...):
>     acc=func1(x,y....)
>     if some_test:
>        acc = acc+func2(x,y...)
>     else:
>        acc = acc+func3(x,y...)
>     return acc
>
> Personally I'd  prefer to be able to write something like:
>
> def foo(x,y,....):
>    return func1(x,y,..) +
>           if some_test:
>               func2(x,y...)
>           else:
>               func3(x,y..)

If you know that func2() will *always* evaluate as non-null, you can:

return func1() + (some_test and func2() or func(3))

TJF




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Nov 26 03:37:16 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:37:16 GMT
Subject: Coaxing DWORD values out of a Binary file...
References: <aFcE9.8069$It3.814405@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0pGE9.6590$1r1.259632@newsc.telia.net>

adeptus wrote:

> I've tried unpacking them via the struct module, (by passing them in as 4
> byte strings) but the numbers I get don't seem to make any sense for the
> file format...
>
> Am I making a naive assumption about how VC++ would write a DWORD to a
> binary file???
>
> I'm also assuming that:
>     (i386 centric)
>     8-Bits = 1 Char = 1 Byte
>     1 Word = 2 Bytes
>     1 DWORD = 4 Bytes
>
> What I'm asking is, what is proper officially pythonic way of accessing
> DWORD values stored in a binary file by a VC++ program???

for some reason, there seem to be a new trend on this newsgroup
where people post lame replies without even attempting to answer
the original question.  sorry for that.  here's the correct answer:

    struct.unpack("<I", data)

(little-endian, four-byte unsigned integer)

to avoid problems on non-Unix platforms, also make sure you open
the file in binary mode:

    f = open(filename, "rb")
    data = f.read(4)

to debug, use "print repr(data)" or "print data.encode('hex')" and
make sure the data is what you expect it to be.

</F>




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 27 22:51:21 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 03:51:21 GMT
Subject: Skipping EOFs when using file objects?
References: <KefF9.141133$WL3.63739@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <as43rp$11p$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 02:32:10 GMT, Colin Cashman <ccashman at attbi.com> wrote:

>I'm building a decoder for yEnc files, but I'm hitting premature EOF 
>characters (that is, I'm only 300 or 400 bytes into the file, when the 
>file size is around 950 bytes).
>
>Is there any way, without resorting to file descriptor operations, to 
>configure a file object such that it skips over those premature EOF 
>characters?
>
It sounds like you need to open the file in binary (mode 'rb').
Otherwise ctrl-z will look like eof, not to mention other possible
mixups.

 >>> f=file('test.dat','wb')
 >>> f.write('This probably will end here:\x1a\And not show this')
 >>> f.close()
 >>> file('test.dat').read()
 'This probably will end here:'
 >>> file('test.dat','rb').read()
 'This probably will end here:\x1a\\And not show this'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Wed Nov  6 18:38:12 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:38:12 -0800
Subject: Guilty secret: globals baffle me
References: <3U9y9.19300$ko1.2872530@kent.svc.tds.net>
Message-ID: <459cqa.ij3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Edward K. Ream fed this fish to the penguins on Wednesday 06 November 
2002 06:43 am:


> My questions:
> 
> 1. How many globals are there?  Is there just one, or does each module
> define its own?
>

        In a simplistic sense, globals are names which exist at the top level 
of each module (or .py file, including your "main" program). Locals are 
names which are created/used inside of nested definition levels...

aGlobal = []

def something(arg):
        aLocal = arg

class someitem():       #warning, very loose usage here, likely not runable
        aClassLocal = 1
        def __init__(self, arg):
                aInstanceLocal = arg

> 2. It seems that:
> 
> global foo
> foo = x
> ...
> global
> print foo
> 
> only works if the two parts are within the same module, so I think
> maybe globals() returns module specific stuff, but then why call it
> globals?
> 

        The global statement is needed /inside/ def/class components in order 
to reference the stuff at the module level.

aGlobal1 = []
aGlobal2 = []

def something(arg1, arg2):
        global aGlobal2
        aGlobal1 = arg1 #DOES NOT ACCESS aGlobal1! Creates a LOCAL named 
aGlobal1
        aGlobal2 = arg2 #because of the global statement, this really does
                        #access the expected global


        To get to stuff in an imported module, in a way that the module also 
sees it, requires 

import module

module.globallevelname ...


        Do not use

from module import globallevelname

as that just makes reference to the module's name, and uses the same 
name in the importing file. The first time you assign to that name, you 
change the reference -- you do not change what was inside the module 
itself.

--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From psage at ncaustin.com  Thu Nov 21 15:55:06 2002
From: psage at ncaustin.com (Paul Sage)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:55:06 -0600
Subject: Web Tracking in Python
Message-ID: <03F53405C6ED434A986221919785A6A70154FEC5@nca-postal.ncaustin.com>

My wife has a family webpage that is pretty active.  She uses site
tracking, but has never been happy with the lack of certain features.
Can anyone recommend a good Python website tracking package?  

I looked at Follow, but the .TAR doesn't expand properly on Windows
platforms.  I might be inclined to use it, if I find a more friendly
version for Windows.  Windows needed as main development platform.  The
Web server is UNIX based.




From donnal at donnal.net  Wed Nov  6 21:29:13 2002
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 18:29:13 -0800
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk> <aqajfv$qqr$1@news.netpower.no> <918bc22f.0211060732.47b2198d@posting.google.com> <aqbifg$6qd$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <918bc22f.0211061829.2d94e681@posting.google.com>

"Anton Vredegoor" :
> To me it isn't that simple. From my perspective
> the GPL is using the same kind of "weapons" to
> defend it's followers against the "evil"
> closed sourcerers.

> Using the same kind of weapons as the enemy risks
> becoming oneself that what is feared. I think this is
> meant by "not resisting evil" and "turning the other
> cheek" and such ideas as one can find in the old books.

As the OP, I did not intend to start yet another flame war regarding
the merits and/or evils of "copyleft". I was merely puzzled by the
fact that the Python License is on the list of acceptable licenses one
can choose for a SourceForge project, but I couldn't figure out how I
could use the PSF License without modification. Martin confirmed the
fact that I can't. It appears, then, that a number of developers
simply use "Python License" as a well-understood synonym for BSD-style
license, which is fine with me. But I figure I might as well say what
I mean, so my options are GPL or BSD, the relative merits
notwithstanding.

Having said this, I see both as valid options in my situation. I am
working on two different kinds of projects. The first project is to
develop a kind of toolset and notation for building custom clinical
applications. I had planned to use the PSF License and now plan to use
the BSD license for this project, as I want to encourage its
widespread use by not using a restrictive license. I only hope that
*some* of its users give me valuable feedback about how to make the
toolset better. If other users want to use the toolset for other
purposes, I only ask that not hold me liable if it doesn't work as
they expected, etc.

The other project, however, involves using this toolset/notation to
build a set of clinical applications for newborn intensive care. In
this case, I truly do want to be restrictive. If others derive
products from this project, I want the derived products to be open
source as well. In saying this, I don't view myself as being hateful
or vindictive or as fighting evil. I simply want to encourage
individuals and companies who build on these applications to give
their products back to the pediatric community. So, for the second
project, I am strongly inclined toward GPL.

Donnal Walter, M.D., Ph.D.
Arkansas Children's Hospital
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov 12 09:02:32 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:02:32 -0600
Subject: simple metaclass question
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D5F0A7@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Blair Hall [mailto:b.hall at irl.cri.nz]
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 11:13 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: simple metaclass question
> 
> 
> Please don't ask me why, but in trying to use metaclasses
> I simplified my code to the following:
> 

This is the problem: you're deriving your metaclass
from 'object', instead of 'type'.

> class M(object):
>     def __init__(cls,name, bases,dict):
>         cls.val=0
> 
>     def set(cls,n):
>         cls.val = n
> 
> class A(object):
>     __metaclass__ = M
>     val = 3
> 
> class B(object) :
>     val = 2
> 
> I was then surprised to see that
> >>> A.val
> 0
> >>> B.val
> 2
> >>>A.set(5)
> >>>A.val
> 5
> 

Good luck, I'm barely learning these ropes too. :-)

-gustavo



From surfdargent at free.fr  Sat Nov 23 22:42:28 2002
From: surfdargent at free.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane_Vaxelaire?=)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 19:42:28 -0800
Subject: Python - Boost - Cygwin linker error
Message-ID: <bca37bb1.0211231942.24f4c2f5@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I'm trying t obuild a program that compiles fine under Linux but this
time I'm trying it under Cygwin. After several fixes I came up to the
linking stage.
The program (VegaStrike, GPL game) is including the boost library
v1.29 if I'm right which is compiled into a libboost_python.a lib.

Now, under cygwin I'm using the python2.2.2-1 package and link againt
libpython2.2.dll.a with gcc-2.95 (I'm using the same base config under
Linux) as gcc-3.2 seems to have problems with VegaStrike under Cygwin.

I get an error at link time that appears to occur between Boost code
and python lib. Here is the output :

boost/libboost_python.a(extension_class.o)(.text+0x33a2): In function
`operator_dispatcher_call_pow':
/home/Steph/vegastrike/src/boost/extension_class.cpp:558: variable
'_Py_NoneStruct' can't be auto-imported. Please read the documentation
for ld's --enable-auto-import for details.
Info: resolving _PyInt_Type by linking to __imp__PyInt_Type
(auto-import)
Info: resolving _PyLong_Type by linking to __imp__PyLong_Type
(auto-import)
Info: resolving _PyFloat_Type by linking to __imp__PyFloat_Type
(auto-import)
... (there are a few other Info things ...

I've read the ld man pages as it says and found the way to avoid those
kind of problems but I just can't figure out how to apply it to my
case.
Moreover, it is a problem between two "official" libs, I mean they are
not hand made.

Anyone can help me with this _Py_NoneStruct thing ?

Regards,

Stephane


From info at mjais.de  Tue Nov 26 17:44:06 2002
From: info at mjais.de (Markus Jais)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:44:06 +0100
Subject: mod python question
Message-ID: <as0tck$n4hst$1@ID-75083.news.dfncis.de>

hello
I have the example from the mod python tutorial

from mod_python import apache

def handler(req):
    req.content_type = "text/html"
    req.send_http_header()
    req.write("Eagles are great")
    return apache.OK

and this setup

<Directory /var/www/html/python> 
  AddHandler python-program .py
  PythonHandler mptest 
  PythonDebug On 
</Directory>


this works fine.

but when I change the <Directory> directive to
----
<Location /python> 
  AddHandler python-program .py
  PythonHandler mptest 
  PythonDebug On 
</Location>
---
I get this error in my apache logfile:
[Tue Nov 26 00:07:18 2002] [notice] mod_python: (Re)importing mptest from 
None
[Tue Nov 26 00:07:18 2002] [error] PythonHandler mptest: Traceback (most 
recent call last):
[Tue Nov 26 00:07:18 2002] [error] PythonHandler mptest:   File 
"/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", line 181, in 
Dispatch
    module = import_module(module_name, _req)
[Tue Nov 26 00:07:18 2002] [error] PythonHandler mptest:   File 
"/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", line 332, in 
import_module
    f, p, d = imp.find_module(parts[i], path)
[Tue Nov 26 00:07:18 2002] [error] PythonHandler mptest: ImportError: No 
module named mptest


I am using python 2.2.2, modpython 2.7.8 and apache 1.3.23 (rpm version for 
redhat 7.3)

markus




From knepley at mcs.anl.gov  Mon Nov  4 16:16:31 2002
From: knepley at mcs.anl.gov (Matthew Knepley)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 15:16:31 -0600
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com> <aq6mh7$k0l$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <y8hbs55593k.fsf@spinetta.mcs.anl.gov>

>>>>> ">" == Joshua Marshall <jmarshal at mathworks.com> writes:

  >> Regular expressions are not powerful enough to be used to match strings when you need to be intelligent about
  >> nesting.  There are probably parser generators available--links anyone?
  I really like PLY from David Beazley, http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/ply.

  Matt

  >> For your particular application, also take a look at the "parser" Python module.  It's a little ugly, since it
  >> gives you complete (rather than abstract) syntax trees, but it may help you.

-- 
"Failure has a thousand explanations. Success doesn't need one" -- Sir Alec Guiness


From christian at becool.ch  Mon Nov  4 17:47:51 2002
From: christian at becool.ch (Christian Kaenzig)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:47:51 +0100
Subject: UDP broadcasts => 'Permission denied'
Message-ID: <E188q0e-0000ip-00@mowgli>

Hello.

I'm quite a newbie in python and I'm having some trouble with networking 
(Linux 2.4.18 (debian), Python 2.2.2) :

I tried some code I've found on the net which implement a simple client and 
server which just echoes some data. This worked fine :-).

But then I wanted the client not to send its data explicitely to the server, 
but send a broadcast packet instead, so I told the client to send it to 
'<broadcast>'. This didn't work :-(. It printed the folowing message :

s.sendto('Hello world',(HOST, PORT))
socket.error: (13, 'Permission denied')

After 2-3 hours of searching google and others, I finally gave up. Does 
someone of you have any kind of clue ?? Or a link to any useful documention ??

Thanx very much, bye.
Chris



From idbaxter at semdesigns.com  Sat Nov  2 11:34:44 2002
From: idbaxter at semdesigns.com (Ira Baxter)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 10:34:44 -0600
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <mailman.1036202583.7965.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dc3fd77$1@giga.realtime.net>

Perhaps obfuscation of source code would be a choice.
You build using "clear-text" source code, then
offer obfuscated source code to your users?
Advantages: easy.
Disadvantages: Reverse engineering is possible.
(But then, that's true of any solution.  We're arguing
about the amount of effort to do it).

We can build obfuscators for essentially any language.
Haven't done it yet for Python, but we already
have a Python parser, which is most of the battle.

See http://www.semdesigns.com/Products/Formatters/ObfuscatorExample.html
for an example.

--
Ira D. Baxter, Ph.D., CTO   512-250-1018
Semantic Designs, Inc.      www.semdesigns.com

"hotjava" <hotjava at pacific.net.sg> wrote in message
news:mailman.1036202583.7965.python-list at python.org...
> Hi Guys,
>
> The intention of my post is not to start a 'comparison war' between open
> source and close source.
>
> I agree with David Brown with his reply that each has its own merits.
>
> Let us not hog up the mailing list with 'which is better' as this will be
a
> very long discussion.
>
> I think I have found what I wanted from Armin Steinhoff's reply. His
> suggestion is to use pyrex to translate my 'critical' python source to C
> and build it as a library module. But I do not know why he did not suggest
> me to use pyrex to translate my full python source to C. Nevertheless,
this
> idea seems workable.
>
> Now I will have to decide to have:
> a. fully closed apps
> b. fully open apps
> c. partial open and closed source apps
>
> Looks like c. is the best.
>
> thanks.
>
>




From theller at python.net  Fri Nov  8 09:49:11 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 15:49:11 +0100
Subject: "Universal Gateway"
References: <apkc4c$d5s$2@pith.uoregon.edu> <n0oxjc6f.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Rejw9.22645$jE1.72970@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <1y63gc02.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Y_Nx9.14995$5u4.46256@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <heewyxlc.fsf@ion-tof.com> <ursy9.23689$5u4.72621@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <fzud3760.fsf@python.net> <k7jp6pwp.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <wuno6rrs.fsf@python.net>

Paul Moore <gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk> writes:

> Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:
> 
> > Ok, it seems I cannot escape, now that ctypes also was mentioned in
> > the Daily Python-URL, so I will also announce it here, after some
> > cleanup.
> 
> Having looked at this, I'm very impressed. calldll did the job, but I
> was never completely happy with its interface. Your code is far nicer,
> and makes things very clean.
> 
> I was interested in the support for callbacks, and as there wasn't a
> sample script in the distribution, I had a go at writing one. Took me
> no more than a few minutes (most of which was looking up prototypes in
> MSDN!) and worked straight off. It was a very nice experience :-)
> 
> In case you're interested, here's the code (just lists the window
> titles of all the windows in the system).
> 
> ---- cut here ----
> 
> from ctypes import windll, CFunction, c_string
> user32 = windll.user32
> 
> class EnumWindowsProc(CFunction):
>     _types_ = "ii"
>     _stdcall_ = 1
> 
> def DisplayWindow(hwnd, lparam):
>     title = c_string('\000' * 256)
>     user32.GetWindowTextA(hwnd, title, 255)
>     print title.value
> 
> enumproc = EnumWindowsProc(DisplayWindow)
> 
> user32.EnumWindows(enumproc, 0)

Great! With your permission, I will add this to the example scripts.

So, it seems, the interface is intuitive, and the docs are good enough
at explaining the details.

Hm, looking at the HTML files, they are nearly as large as the .pyd
files.

Looking further: there is still a lot which isn't mentioned in the
docs, so I still have to catch up with writing.

Thomas


From s802645999 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 19 09:11:44 2002
From: s802645999 at yahoo.com (asdfasd asdfasdf)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 06:11:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: converting python scripts to exe
Message-ID: <20021119141144.93584.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com>


hi

i have a python script and this script calls another program by using os.system() function. This program needs a configuration file as input.  i converted this python script to exe using py2exe utility and removed the configuration file as this configuration file contains passwords and such...

the exe file did not work becos it complains there is no such configuration file....so how do i 'static' compile into an exe so that even if i remove this config file, the exe still works....?? is it possible with other utilities like cx_freeze or Gordon McMillan's Installer or something like that??

thanks

 



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
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From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Nov 23 12:25:26 2002
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 09:25:26 -0800
Subject: rss.py for win32.
References: <Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP@195.112.4.37>
Message-ID: <915a998f.0211230925.4f65b67c@posting.google.com>

Dave Pawson wrote:

> http://orchard.sourceforge.net/doc/RSS-parser.py
> 
> Appears to be *nix only.
> Has anyone seen a win32  version please?

I don't know whether they work on Win32, but a couple of other modules
are discussed in the following article about RSS for Python:

   http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/ws-pyth11.html


Hamish Lawson


From a_human_work at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 29 12:08:30 2002
From: a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 09:08:30 -0800
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
References: <mailman.1038570941.14619.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fa61a3d8.0211290908.430f44ba@posting.google.com>

"Alfredo P. Ricafort" <alpot at mylinuxsite.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1038570941.14619.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi,
> 
> I'm quite new to Python.  So far I find it to be easy to learn and
> simple to program.  However, one thing that I missed, especially someone
> coming from C language, is 'struct'. It seems that when you define a
> data structure in the form of a List, Tuple, or Dict., there is no way
> to give names to each element. 
> 
> For example:
> 
> In C:
>    struct Customer {
>           char * Name;
>           char * Address;
>           char * TelNo;
>    } Customer[];
>   
>    printf("Customer Name is %s\n",Customer[i].Name); 
>    
> 
> In Python:
>    Customer=[ [Name,Addres,TelNo], [Name,Address,TelNo],.....]
>  
>    print "Customer Name is %" Customer[i][0]
> 

here's one way to do it.

customer1 = { "Name" : None,
              "Address" : None,
              "TelNo" : None }
Customer = [customer1, customer2, ...]
print "Customer name is %s" % Customer[i]["Name"]


From Paul_Rudin at scientia.com  Mon Nov 11 05:44:25 2002
From: Paul_Rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 10:44:25 +0000
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <J9Lz9.15955$Bs5.566768@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ur8dss7w6.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "AM" == Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

 AM> Paul Rudin wrote:
 >> .... lisp's if:
 >> 
 >> (if x y z)
 >> 
 >> which returns y if x is true and z otherwise.
 >> 
 >> ... is there a succinct way of expressing this in the base language?

[snip urls]

Thanks for the reply.

Seems like the executive summary is : "No" :-)

-- 
What I want to find out is -- do parrots know much about Astro-Turf?


From support at internetdiscovery.com  Fri Nov  1 15:16:36 2002
From: support at internetdiscovery.com (Mike Clarkson)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 20:16:36 GMT
Subject: tksteal & tkinter
References: <NruS9LAyf$v9EwmQ@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3dc2e122.6050019@nntp.ix.netcom.com>

On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 15:17:06 +0000, Robin Becker
<robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>A questioner on the PMW list asks if there's a way to capture windows
>and there used to be for Tk an X11 extension called TkSteal. So far as I
>remember that was a C extension and is probably still workable (even if
>not supported). Supposing that one could build and test the thing in
>Tcl/Tk how does one use from tkinter or do the extension commands become
>known to tkinter when the extension is loaded?

Robin,

I have an "updated" version of TkSteal for 8.3.3 I can send you.
It was a bare minimum patch to get it working for 8.3.3 and
I'm not usiig it a whole lot so there may be some small tinkering to
do.

Any shared C Tk extension loads easily into Tkinter these days (2.1)
with a
    root.tk.eval('package require Ext')
assuming you have installed it into the Tcl/ subdirectory of Python.
You may need to fiddle with the pkgIndex.tcl a little.

Any Tk extension, as the very least can be called from Python
    root.tk.eval('Ext foo bar')
Writing a wrapper is straight forward and is basically pattern
matching on the Tkinter.py code.

I have taken up a collection for a home for wayward Tk wrappers into
Python in the Python/ directory of Tixapps -

   http://tix.sourceforge.net/Tixapps/

If someone does a wrapper for TkSteal I'll add it to the collection.

Mike.



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Nov 20 12:33:52 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:33:52 -0600
Subject: Howto wait for multiple queues (Queue.py)?
In-Reply-To: <87bs4kxxxs.fsf@sinon.fr.de.tenovis.com>
References: <87bs4kxxxs.fsf@sinon.fr.de.tenovis.com>
Message-ID: <15835.51072.893744.335565@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Andreas> ... I want to be able to block the consumer thread until input
    Andreas> within one (or more) queues is available.

How about you maintain a single Queue which holds the other Queues?  When a
Queue goes empty it gets removed from the main Queue.  When something is
put() into it, it's added to the main Queue if it's not already there.  Your
consumers then wait on the main Queue.

Seems simple enough to subclass Queue and tweak its get and put methods.

Perhaps this was one of the alternatives you described but I didn't
understand.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From fang at free.fr  Tue Nov  5 05:14:17 2002
From: fang at free.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 10:14:17 GMT
Subject: UDP broadcasts => 'Permission denied'
References: <mailman.1036450093.4936.python-list@python.org> <m2y9889aer.fsf@mail.a-nugget.de> <mailman.1036488547.9969.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasf6kn.d5v.fang@calvin.fayauffre.org>

Dans l'article, Christian Kaenzig a ?crit :
> The problem is that the python doc always refers to manpages that describe th 
> ecorresponding functions in C, but I don't have them.
> 
> Do you know where I can find them ? Is there a deb package ?

apt-get install manpages-dev

However, it could be interesting to provide more information for people
using non-unix systems where these manpages are not easily available.

-- 
Alexandre


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 16 18:16:36 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 23:16:36 GMT
Subject: wrapping all class methods
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com> <mailman.1037385864.30209.python-list@python.org> <pan.2002.11.16.12.39.49.262808.1346@club-internet.fr> <7HAfWUAhuj19EwTr@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <ar61rk$gun$0@216.39.172.122> <mPaY0KAJ0r19EwQU@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ar6jkk$17g$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:47:53 +0000, Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <ar61rk$gun$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net>
>writes
>>On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:35:45 +0000, Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> 
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <pan.2002.11.16.12.39.49.262808.1346 at club-internet.fr>, Pedro 
>>Rodriguez <pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr> writes
>>>
>>>This might be true for a proper program, but in this context
>>>I don't know which exceptions are being silently ignored further
>>>up the chain. So this was an attempt at a quick and dirty diagnostic
>>> to discover which exceptions were being raised in the backend and
>>
>>Just wondering if you had used
>        http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/debugger-
>hooks.html#debugger-hooks
>..... no I hadn't used that, but then I don't want a trace I want to
>discover which tracebacks are being detected and trapped.

I thought you might be able to do a silent trace and see the exceptions
before they're "trapped". (The hook doesn't do any output or force you to.
You choose what to do if/when you see something of interest).

E.g., this is what my tracewatch does being told to watch only calls
and returns from foo and bar, but incidentally reporting on exceptions:

 >>> from ut.tracewatch import TraceWatch as TW
 >>> def foo(n):
 ...     if n>4: raise StopIteration # or whatever
 ...     bar(n+1)
 ...
 >>> def bar(n):
 ...     if n>3: foo(n+1)
 ...     try:
 ...         foo(n+1)
 ...     except StopIteration:
 ...         print 'Caught stopiter with n = %s' % n
 ...
 >>> tw=TW()
 >>> tw.addwatch('foo','#f')
 >>> tw.addwatch('bar','#f')
 >>> tw.on()
 >>> foo(2)
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
 File: "<stdin>"
 Line [scope] C:all, R:eturn eX:cept S:tack N:ew M:od E:quiv U:nbound
 ---- ------- -------------------------------------------------------
    1 [foo]:             C: foo(n=2)
    1 [bar]:             C: bar(n=3)
    1 [foo]:             C: foo(n=4)
    1 [bar]:             C: bar(n=5)
    1 [foo]:             C: foo(n=6)
    2 [foo]:             X: StopIteration()
                         S: < bar:2 < foo:3 < bar:4 < foo:3 < ?:1
    2 [bar]:             X: StopIteration()
                         S: < foo:3 < bar:4 < foo:3 < ?:1
    3 [foo]:             X: StopIteration()
                         S: < bar:4 < foo:3 < ?:1
    4 [bar]:             X: StopIteration()
                         S: < foo:3 < ?:1
 Caught stopiter with n = 3
    6 [bar]:             R: bar(...) => None
    3 [foo]:             R: foo(...) => None

Whereas if we start off with foo at 3, bar won't set the trap, so we get
the full unwind and no returns (R:):

 >>> foo(3)
    1 [foo]:             C: foo(n=3)
    1 [bar]:             C: bar(n=4)
    1 [foo]:             C: foo(n=5)
    2 [foo]:             X: StopIteration()
                         S: < bar:2 < foo:3 < ?:1
    2 [bar]:             X: StopIteration()
                         S: < foo:3 < ?:1
    3 [foo]:             X: StopIteration()
                         S: < ?:1
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 3, in foo
   File "<stdin>", line 2, in bar
   File "<stdin>", line 2, in foo
 StopIteration

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From pylist at dreamingprophet.com  Fri Nov 29 16:04:11 2002
From: pylist at dreamingprophet.com (Mickael Putters)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 22:04:11 +0100
Subject: Embedding Python and built-in types
References: <mailman.1038595960.26200.python-list@python.org> <m3hee0t7q5.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <000b01c297ea$de27d8d0$9600000a@ashe>

Well, I was talking about the assignment operator, maybe it's not =.
Yeah well guess I'll have to modify the source, I thought maybe there would
be a way to do that already present in Python/C.
Anyway, thanks.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: Embedding Python and built-in types


> "Mickael Putters" <mputters at dreamingprophet.com> writes:
>
> > Is it possible to embed it so that you have control over the simple
> > types operators ?
>
> You can overload those operators for user-defined types. For builtin
> types, the builtin implementation is used.
>
> > Basically, that you can for example handle yourself the operator =
> > for integers (actually, just being notified of it happening is
> > enough, since it's to compile some part of the language to
> > bytecode).
>
> I assume you are talking about the equality operator here, which is
> spelled ==.
>
> When embedding Python, please understand that you have the full
> source; Python is free software. So if you want to modify the
> implementation of integer comparison: feel free to. It is in
> Objects/intobject.c:int_compare.
>
> If you don't want to modify the source, you have to understand that
> Python does not implement an equality operator for the int type
> (although it does so for other types). For types not implementing ==,
> Python uses their compare operation instead, which gives -1/0/1; if
> the result is 0, the values are equal.
>
> If you can accept to modify that instead of == operator, then you can
> modify, at run time, PyInt_Type.tp_compare. All uses of the compare
> function should use this function pointer, so your code should be
> called instead of the standard compare implementation.
>
> HTH,
> Martin
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From see at below.invalid  Wed Nov 13 06:35:03 2002
From: see at below.invalid (Paul Foley)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 00:35:03 +1300
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de> <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <3DD0D765.3030907@web.de> <3DD16CAF.41214BBA@alcyone.com> <m2el9qjd0f.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3DD1DE6A.1BBEFE5A@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <m2adkdk8ig.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:08:58 -0800, Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Paul Foley wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:03:43 -0800, Erik Max Francis wrote:
>> 
>> > Note that for "first tastes," Scheme is probably a better
>> > introduction [clipped]
>> 
>> "Introduction" to what?  Scheme and Lisp are very different languages.

> To Lisp-like languages, which was clearly stated in the line you trimmed
> which immediately followed the one you quoted here.  My point is that if

I know.  But, as I said, Scheme and Lisp are very different languages.
I.e., Scheme is /not/ a good introduction to Lisp (and vice versa),
any more than, say, INTERCAL is a good introduction to Java :-)

Worse, most people who learn Scheme first don't seem to be capable of
learning Lisp later.

[What do you mean by "Lisp-like language" anyway?  Python seems pretty
Lisp-like to me...]

>> > Scheme doesn't have this distinction between a symbol and the
>> > function
>> > associated with it, so there's no distinction between ' and #'.
>> 
>> It most certainly does, and there is.

> To explicitly apply a function to a list of arguments in Common Lisp you
> would write:

> 	(apply #'+ '(1 2 3))

Yes.

> In Scheme this is an error, since #'... has no meaning in Scheme. 

Right.

> Instead, you would write:

> 	(apply + '(1 2 3))

Yes.  Not (apply '+ '(1 2 3)), replacing #' with ' as you imply; that
would be an error in Scheme.  (It's legal Lisp)

There is a distinction between "a symbol and the function associated
with it" -- there is no function associated with a symbol, in Scheme,
and symbols and functions are different things.

There is a distinction between ' and #' -- one is invalid syntax and
the other returns a symbol (or something else), not the function that
#' returns in CL.

-- 
Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time
to reform.                                                  -- Mark Twain

(setq reply-to
  (concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(#\@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 21 08:05:42 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:05:42 -0800
Subject: safsfsdf
Message-ID: <3DDCDA26.7020009@alcyone.com>

This is a test.

-- 
  Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ God heals, and the doctor takes the fee.
\__/ Benjamin Franklin
     EmPy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/
  A system for embedding arbitrary Python in template text as markup.



From Padraig at Linux.ie  Tue Nov 26 12:15:18 2002
From: Padraig at Linux.ie (Padraig Brady)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:15:18 GMT
Subject: How to convert ASCII-number => HEX -number => string of numbers
 in HEX ?
References: <3de39ca8$1@news.vip.fi> <3DE3A33E.3050505@Linux.ie> <as0902$70s$1@serv.vrn.ru>
Message-ID: <3DE3AB9E.70709@Linux.ie>

Lexy Zhitenev wrote:
> "Padraig Brady" <Padraig at Linux.ie> wrote:
>  news:3DE3A33E.3050505 at Linux.ie...
> 
>>Hmm ''.zfill() isn't present on python 2.2 at least?
>>(string.zfill() is?)
>>
>>P?draig.
>>
> 
> Maybe, you have a broken version? ActivePython 2.2.1 does have .zfill() and
> string.zfill().

It's the one on RH7.3 (python2-2.2-16)

P?draig.



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Thu Nov  7 19:49:02 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:49:02 -0600
Subject: OT: Abbreviations (was Re: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book))
References: <slrnasl1dr.3cj.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <20021107192332.29263.00003648@mb-mg.aol.com>
Message-ID: <007901c286c0$a2d97bc0$ba01010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ACalcium" <acalcium at aol.com>


> >> Why can u teach this in CS2 when they learn
> >
> >The word is "you", not "u".
> >
> >You may not know this yet, but the rest of the Internet is *nothing*
> >like AOL. We prefer complete English words here, and "cute"
> 
> [much deleted]
> Just concentrate and follow the thread, Rob.

I have to say, I'm with Rob.  How much work would two letters
cost you?

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Mon Nov 18 18:02:55 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:02:55 -0600
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E6CC95@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Richard Dillingham [mailto:shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 4:59 PM
> 
> > Instead, (a, b) >= (c, d) is defined as (a>c or (a==c and b>=d)).
> 
> I just keep reading that again and again and thinking "WTF? 
> Why? Wha...."
> 
> *shudders*
> 
> Now I'm sorry I asked...
>

Because it's the correct thing to do, when comparing
tuples.  In the comparison, the tuple isn't a container
to make shorthand versions of larger comparisons, rather,
it's a quantity in itself.

It's like comparing strings: first the first char,
then the second, etc.

In the case of comparing two tuples, first it compares
the first elements, if they're equal, then the seconds,
thirds, etc.

So, the above equivalence is what it really does, even
if it does look "ugly". :-)

-gus



From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Tue Nov 26 11:40:50 2002
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:40:50 +0100
Subject: A bug or a feature: how to avoid?
References: <as06i3$4bi$1@serv.vrn.ru>
Message-ID: <as086j$hp8$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Lexy Zhitenev wrote:
>>>> try:
> ...  pass
> ... except IndexError, ValueError, NameError:
> Traceback (  File "<interactive input>", line 3
>     except IndexError, ValueError, NameError:
>                                  ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>>
>
> I don't want to write the code under try statement twice! What's the
> solution? Or it should be reported as a bug?

Hidden on http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/try.html are the words
>>>
An object is compatible with an exception if it is either the object that
identifies the exception, or (for exceptions that are classes) it is a base
class of the exception, or it is a TUPLE CONTAINING AN ITEM that is
compatible with the exception.
<<<
So using
except (IndexError, ValueError, NameError), exceptionVar:
should do the trick.

Daniel




From s13361562 at spammenot.bach.sun.ac.za  Mon Nov  4 09:50:44 2002
From: s13361562 at spammenot.bach.sun.ac.za (Hugo van der Merwe)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:50:44 +0200
Subject: Python2.1->2.2 broke my thread/signal code?
References: <aq2rd7$2mc8$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <j4wunuhgub.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <aq61g4$lp3$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:

> Hugo van der Merwe <s13361562 at spammenot.bach.sun.ac.za> writes:
> 
>> n.skip()   # This does the job when using 2.1, but not when using 2.2
> 
> Can you please elaborate what you expect to happen, and what happened
> instead?

n.skip() sends ogg123 the SIGTERM signal, and it is supposed to die. (The 
effect of this in my full program would be to play the next track, hence 
"skip".) This works fine with python2.1, but with python2.2, SIGTERM does 
not kill ogg123. "killall ogg123" also doesn't kill ogg123.

Thus: using python2.2, the process running ogg123 responds to signals 
differently. (Doesn't respond to SIGTERM.)

Thanks,
Hugo van der Merwe


From rmunn at pobox.com  Fri Nov 29 14:08:42 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:08:42 GMT
Subject: Not finding user-installed module despite PYTHONPATH!
References: <slrnaucbep.4v9.hat@se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl>
Message-ID: <slrnauff15.5cc.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Albert Hofkamp <hat at se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl> wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I want to run an interactive Python module through ssh. The basic solution is
> something like
> 
> ssh -x remote_machine 'python -c "import mymodule ; mymodule.run()"'

[snip attempts to get PYTHONPATH set]

Does something like this work?

ssh -x remote_machine 'PYTHONPATH=/path/to/module python -c "import mymodule ; mymodule.run()"'

(If that line wraps, it should be all on one line).

It seems to me that this might be a better solution than trying to set
.ssh/environment -- do you want *all* ssh sessions to get this
PYTHONPATH, or just this particular command?

I like to be as specific as possible, and not apply a too-general
solution that might not make sense in another case.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 14 06:28:32 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:28:32 GMT
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org> <PoWcnQjwr8ECy06gXTWc3A@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <ANLA9.10384$Yw.422374@news2.tin.it>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> 
> "Cameron Horn" <camhorn at mac.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list at python.org...
>>>> If I want to write an empty generator, I write this(?):
>>>> def foo():
>>>>    return
>>>>    yield "never"
> 
> <my previous comment clipped>
> 
> I prefer (see below for why)
> 
> def null():
>   raise StopIteration
>   yield 1/0

I think that if I ever had to write an empty generator I'd prefer a 
single-statement version, such as, for example:

def empty():
    yield iter([]).next()

The .next call to the iterator object, constructed on the fly on any
empty iterable, raises StopIteration, and empty()'s yield statement
just cleanly propagates it.  More generally, the preference is for
any statement of the form:

    yield <any expression that raises StopIteration>

calling .next() on an empty iterator seems the most natural way to
get "an expression that raises StopIteration", but there may be
better ones -- or more natural ways to get an empty iterator than
calling iter([]) -- though none readily comes to mind offhand.


Alex



From patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au  Fri Nov 15 21:20:10 2002
From: patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au (Patrick W)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 13:20:10 +1100
Subject: Permutations algoritm?
References: <mailman.1037391865.1270.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8765uydzmt.fsf@key.localdomain>

sismex01 at hebmex.com writes:

> Does anybody have a clear, simple, permutations algorithm
> in Python?

Since you've already received sensible answers, this one's just for fun.

def perm(s):
    return [[s[i]] + x \
            for i in range(len(s)) \
            for x in perm(s[:i] + s[i+1:])] or [[]]

Can anyone come up with a shorter one?


From whisper at oz.net  Fri Nov  1 02:11:19 2002
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:11:19 -0800
Subject: Global variable visibility
In-Reply-To: <apt7bm$fes$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEMEANFNAA.whisper@oz.net>

Ah, the commands.Db idiom wasn't one I thought of. My "punt" was to create
an Initialize method in the commands.py file and call it with Db as a param:

Db = None

def Initialize(database)
	global Db
	Db = database

commands.Db is obviously simpler and more obvious too.

Not exactly sure what you mean by rebinding. Would (in commands.py) Db =
__main__.Db be a rebinding or another reference?

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA

> Yes, but Don't Do That.  Here are two options:
>
>     import commands
>     commands.Db = Db
>
> or
>
>     import commands
>     commands.set_db(Db)
>
>     # in commands.py
>     def set_db(newDb):
>         global Db
>         Db = newDb
>
> Both of these only work if Db is either static or mutable; if you rebind
> __main__.Db, your program will have R-E-A-L problems.
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
http://www.pythoncraft.com/




From costanza at web.de  Sat Nov  9 20:46:04 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:46:04 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <ff133276.0211091535.47871cf2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqkdoq$db6$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Rocco Moretti wrote:
> "Johannes Gr?dem <johs+n at ifi.uio.no> wrote in message news:<lzznsipz4s.fsf at unity.copyleft.no>...
> 
>>Because Lisp has a powerful macro system, it is actually possible to
>>have an infix-macro, which lets you use infix-syntax.  And you can
>>write macros to support all sorts of weird syntax, if you want.
> 
> I've heard this argument a number of times, and have never really
> bought it. To me it seems equivalent to saying "Because (Brainf*ck/
> Intercal/ Unlambda/ Malbourge /etc) are Turing Complete, you can write
> any program in them." Sure, you *can*, but why bother?

...because macros in Common Lisp allow you to do extremely powerful 
things and write very compact code.

[...]
> It's doubly hard when beginning Lisp books only teach the prefix
> notation - the beginner could change it, but who, thus thouroghly
> vexed, has the stamina to wait until chapter 23 to learn how? That's
> why the common rebuttal directed toward Lisp critics is that they
> don't *really* know the language. Lisp is a powerful language, but you
> have to have the patience and the masochism to make it all the way to
> chapter 23.

Then throw that book away and buy a better one. ;-)

Or better yet, download the freely available "On Lisp" by Paul Graham at 
http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html which is the best book on macros 
in Common Lisp. (It introduces them in chapter 7, that's 16 chapters 
earlier! ;)

The core is extremely simple:

This is a piece of program in Lisp: (gethash "key" table)
This is some data in Lisp, a list: '(gethash "key" table)

In the first example, we have a call of the function gethash with 
arguments "key" and table. In the second example, we have a list with 
the three elements gethash, "key" and table.

(BTW, this is exactly the reason why Lisp has this seemingly strange 
syntax - you can easily switch between program representation and data 
representation. On the conceptual level, Lisp makes no difference 
between data and programs.)

In the first example, "key" evaluates to a string and table is a 
variable that (hopefully) evaluates to a hash table. In the second 
example, none of the three elements are evaluated, but they are taken as is.

Sometimes you need lists with some elements evaluated and some not. Here 
is an example: `(gethash "key" ,table) - here, gethash and "key" are not 
evaluated but table is.

So when you have a function definition (defun f (x) (* x x)), everytime 
the Lisp compiler sees for example (f 5), it translates this to a call 
to the function f with argument 5 (or it inlines the call, depending on 
settings of the environment).

On the other hand, when you have a macro definition (defmacro f (x) `(* 
,x ,x)), everytime the Lisp compiler sees (f 5), it calls the macro 
function f with the list '(f 5) at compile time. The macro function 
returns '(* 5 5) and the compiler takes this as the code that it needs 
to compile instead of the original code. (Of course, the result of a 
macro function may include further macro calls, and so on.)

So here is a neat toy example for a good Common Lisp macro. Assume you 
have two functions lock and unlock to protect objects from some unwanted 
access. For example:

(lock ouput)
(write-line "Hello, World!" output)
(write-line "Hi, everybody else!" output)
(unlock output)

A nicer way to do this is to write a macro as follows.

(defmacro with-locked-object (object &rest code)
    `((lock ,object)
      , at code
      (unlock ,object)))

Here, code is a so-called rest arguments - a list of all arguments after 
the already processed arguments (in this case object). The splice 
operator ,@ takes a list, unwraps one pair of brackets and puts this 
list into the surrounding list.

So now you can do the following.

(with-locked-object output
    (write-line "Hello, World!" output)
    (write-line "Hi, everybody else!" output))

Here, the macro function with-locked-object gets output (unevaluated) 
and the list '((write-line "..." output) (write-line "..." output)) as 
arguments and creates our original code as output. The nice thing about 
this macro is that it frees you from the need to remember to unlock your 
object properly. We have essentially defined a language extension!

(This is the way Lisp programmers usually work - they create a kind of 
domain-specific language for the problem at hand and use that language 
for solving the problem.)


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  5 08:30:32 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:30:32 +0000
Subject: win32com: Seeking decent class browser.
Message-ID: <3DC7C7F8.C1157E9A@hotmail.com>

Hi all,

I've been doing some windows coding, using Mark H's windows extensions:
most excellent they are too.

There is only one small problem I am having, and that is getting detail
on interfaces presented by COM objects. When a COM call returns an
object, it can be a lot of reading to try and find out exactly what are
the capabilities of the returned object. What primary interface does it
support? What secondary interfaces does it support? What are the methods
and attributes of those interfaces?

What I've been doing up to now is 

 o Running "makepy.py" on the COM objects
 o Examining the generated python code
 o Consulting the Microsoft documentation

And that works: I just think it's not the optimal way to do things.

Take for example the HTML parser built into IE. I've been playing with
that, to carry out a "tidy" like role, i.e. parse not-well-formed HTML,
load it into a DOM tree, and generate SAX2 events from it, so that I can
build a DOM that I can use xpath on, etc.  Now, when you access the IE
HTML DOM, it returns objects that implement the javascript-like
interface familiar to HTML coders. However, all of the objects support,
as secondary interfaces, DOM level 1, i.e. the interface "IHTMLDOMNode".
Also, there are quite a few "peculiarities" to the interfaces: For
example, the css stylesheet access is different from all other node
access. Trying to find that out information takes a lot of wading
through generated code and Microsoft documentation.

What I'm looking for is a simple class browser that allows me to browse
around the class/interface hierarchy for COM components. I know there is
one that comes with VB, but I'm not going to buy VB just to get the
class browser, especially since I don't know if it does what I want.
I've tried a couple of the free tools, such as the "ProgID Browser" and
the "ActiveX Documenter".

http://home.wtal.de/ib/freisoft
http://www.vbaccelerator.com/codelib/actvxdoc/article.htm

However, these tools don't allow one to "follow trails", i.e. to see the
return type from a method call that returns an object, and then browse
onto the definition of that objects class and interfaces, etc.

So, finally, the question: Does anyone know of a decent class browser
for COM? I'm looking for something that will allow me to move around the
class hierarchy freely? It doesn't have to be a free tool: I don't mind
paying. But the one thing I don't want to do is buy a tool just to find
out that it doesn't do what I need.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Nov 28 06:26:42 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:26:42 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyfy97ew0o7.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <S3nF9.23700$hg1.65413@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Robin Munn:

> With color-highlighting, I could at least be certain *at a glance*
> of which paren was lining up with which.

   Excel has this feature, colouring paired braces in the edit bar.

http://www.scintilla.org/nested.png

   For a time SciTE showed Lua's nested strings in different styles, with
the default being a gradually darkening background cyan as the nesting
increased. IIRC the primary use of this seemed to be for nested comments and
was not perceived to be a great feature so I think it was removed.

Jacek Generowicz:

# I don't understand the distinction. The cursor is at some parenthesis;
# the matching parenthesis is highlighted. I see it. It's immediate. I
# can't imagine anything faster.

   You can see at a glance which parts match without moving the caret around
to highlight them one by one. It looks worth pursuing to me, but I'm not
motivated enough to implement it.

   Neil




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Tue Nov 26 16:13:18 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:13:18 -0500
Subject: Problem with paths on Win 9x
References: <uu4hdcoactl7a@news.supernews.com> <artm3u$18mi$1@serv.vrn.ru> <uu4pbuofg1dhb8@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <uu7ov1nva2gf07@news.supernews.com>

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:uu4pbuofg1dhb8 at news.supernews.com...
>
While I still haven't figured out why it isn't working as written,
it does work with a full path name in quotes, starting with c:\.
No relative path works.

Is it possible that Python doesn't use the Python path for
parameters to the Python command?

John Roth




From cappy2112 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 10:50:52 2002
From: cappy2112 at yahoo.com (Tony C)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:50:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Command.com hosed. OS.system python modules won't execute properly
In-Reply-To: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEAEOJFOAA.whisper@oz.net>
Message-ID: <20021108155052.33921.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com>


I didnt set it explicitly, but When I typed set in a DOS box, to view all of the environment variables,  COMPSEC was set to C:\command.com, which is the same path as the shell line. However,I' will try setting it explicitly.
 David LeBlanc <whisper at oz.net> wrote:I believe you must set your COMSPEC to the same as the SHELL so that the additional env space is available for command interpreters invoked by other programs. "Shell" is only for the initial interactive command interpreter and COMSPEC is for other invocations. HTH, 
David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA 
-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Tony C
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 20:14
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Command.com hosed. OS.system python modules won't execute properly


 

In order to get my Python environment variables, and path working correctly, under Windows 98, I had to add the following to my config.sys, because my environment ran out of space

shell=C:\command.com /p /E:4096

 

Now, when I try to execute modules in OS, such as OS.system('cls'), python reports the following error

 >>> import os
>>> os.system('cls')
Invalid COMMAND.COM
Enter correct name of Command Interpreter (eg, C:\COMMAND.COM)


If I don't add the /p to the shell= statement, a "File Creation Error" message is displayed before Windows 98 loads, and the DOS prompt is displayed.

I found the /P solution to the "File creation error" message problem on Google:groups. Apparently a lot of people had the same problem, in Win 95 days.

 

Does anyboy have some insight to my command interpreter problem ?

thanks

 

 



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From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 13 14:39:13 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:39:13 -0600
Subject: Referencing Data structures from a different file?
In-Reply-To: <3dd2a563$0$28317$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> ("e-tones.co.uk"'s
 message of "Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:17:11 -0000")
References: <3dd2a563$0$28317$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m2isz19s4e.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "e-tones" == e-tones co uk <admin at e-tones.co.uk> writes:

    e-tones> Hi all, I have 2 files...  main.py data_structs.py

    e-tones> In data_structs I have a list and a dicionary, how do I
    e-tones> make it so main.py can access these data structures?

In the directory in which data_structs.py resides, create an empty
file called __init__.py.  This will allow other code to import
data_structs as a module.  In a unix like operating system, you can

  cd /path/to/data_structs
  touch __init__.py

You then need to add /path/to/data_structs to your PYTHONPATH.  In a
UNIX like environment, you would do

 setenv PYTHONPATH /path/to/data_structs   # csh and friends
 export PYTHONPATH=/path/to/data_structs   # bash and friends


Now, with your updated PYTHONPATH set, you can in main.py:

import data_structs

print data_structs.mylist
print data_structs.mydict

This may not be the best design.  There is a nice python pattern
called the Borg (which is like a Singleton in other languages) that
allows you to share objects across modules.

  http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66531

For a tutorial on creating and using your own modules in python,
consult http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node8.html.

Have fun!
John Hunter



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 20 00:47:50 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:47:50 -0600
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.11.20.04.16.26.459889@mn.rr.com> ("Anna"'s message of
 "Wed, 20 Nov 2002 04:15:49 GMT")
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
	<aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnasuojg.l14.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
	<pan.2002.11.20.04.16.26.459889@mn.rr.com>
Message-ID: <m2y97oiygp.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Anna" == Anna  <revanna at mn.rr.com> writes:

    Anna> So if I?m still here asking, it?s because I need an answer
    Anna> that *isn?t* just a reference to the tutorial, something
    Anna> from a live human being... So, yeah, I guess I would
    Anna> consider it a brushoff, unless you took the time to expand
    Anna> on the tutorial in some way... Personally, I?d far rather
    Anna> get no answer than ?RTFM, silly newbie?... cuz chances are,
    Anna> I already did...

But we're much less likely to tell you to RTFM here.  Heck, we're
halfway friendly :-)

from __future__ import division
import urllib, re

rgx = re.compile('.*</b> of about <b>([\d,]+)</b>.*', re.MULTILINE|re.DOTALL)

# gotta do some tricks to get around google groups' user agent policy
class AppURLopener(urllib.FancyURLopener):
    def __init__(self, *args):
        self.version = "MSIE/5.0"
        apply(urllib.FancyURLopener.__init__, (self,) + args)

urllib._urlopener = AppURLopener()

# add some generic words for a baseline to control for total posts
words = ['rtfm', 'consider', 'internet', 'hell', 'shutup']
fmt = 'http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=%s&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_ugroup=*%s*&lr=&hl=en'
summary = {}
for group in ('perl', 'python'):
    for word in words:    
        url =  fmt % (word, group)
        s =  urllib._urlopener.open(url).read()
        m = rgx.match(s)
        if m: summary.setdefault(word, {})[group] = int( m.group(1).replace(',', '') )

for (key, val) in summary.items():

    try: perl, python = val['perl'], val['python']
    except KeyError: continue
    
    print 'Word: %s' % key
    print '\tperl: %d' % perl
    print '\tpython: %d' % python
    print '\trelfreq: %1.2f\n' % (perl/python)
    

Word: rtfm
	perl: 4880
	python: 451
	relfreq: 10.82

Word: shutup
	perl: 32
	python: 31
	relfreq: 1.03

Word: hell
	perl: 5400
	python: 5220
	relfreq: 1.03

Word: consider
	perl: 15600
	python: 8440
	relfreq: 1.85

Word: internet
	perl: 36700
	python: 10400
	relfreq: 3.53

(but it appears we might tell you to shutup...  well, I never would.)

John Hunter



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Nov 21 14:00:47 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:00:47 -0500
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org>
 <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
 <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org>
 <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
 <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de>
 <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com>
 <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
 <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org>
 <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

|I always wanted to ask to David Mertz ;-) :  Why the Ph.D. title in
|the signature ?

OK... first things first :-).  I added a few new keystrokes to my
mailing environment to send messages lacking the pretentious title.  I
apologize to any readers of previous posts who assumed too early that I
was an s.o.b.  (i.e. before reading my actual posts).  Astute readers of
c.l.py, however, will notice that most of my posts (to everywhere in the
world) have used a considerably less high-falutin From:  line.

The reason, FWIW, is that since I do not hold an academic post, folks
whom I correspond with--publishers, contracting companies, etc.--would
assume I have much less education.  The pretentious title is a little
game to skip an initial period of status negotiation (i.e.  I might be
wrong, but I'm not fresh-faced and inexperienced).  But obviously that's
not a c.l.py thing.

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote previously:
|It is true that you can read the Python tutorial in couple of hours,
|"understand" most of it and start immediately programming in Python.
|In a couple of days you can also write some non-trivial program (I wrote
|my first non-trivial program with Python within a week, working on my
|spare time). But this does NOT mean that you have learned Python.

I agree with all Michele remarks.  My timeline was similar, although
probably even after that week, I kept the tutorial in another window to
jump back to remember exactly how Python spells such-and-such.

There is a sense in which professional linguists "learn" a new language
which is similar here.  Now as a start, most of the linguists I have
known have a facility with natural languages that far outshines mine,
and really quite amazes me.  So there is an obvious ability involved.
But even given that, a comparative linguist who "learns" Tlingit doesn't
really learn to carry on conversations with Tlingit speakers (some do,
of course, but there's a more superficial level that is more common).
Instead, said linguist learns something about the Nadene language family
and its other members.  She gets a sense of its verb ordering,
inflectional qualities, tonality, phonemic set, morphology, etc.
Probably she learns enough words to construct some sample sentences, to
illustrate how formations differ from Haida.

When programmers optimistically "learn" a language in a couple days, it
is a similar thing.  For example, I've heard about Eiffel from time to
time, but don't really "know" the language.  Still, I've browsed some
tutorials.  I know roughly what it's idea of OOP is, and that it allows
multiple inheritence.  I even know that Eiffel is unusual in having
contravariant method signatures.  I know it has static types, and OOP
permeates its type system.  I understand why Meyer thinks "programming
by contract" is important.  In fact, I even know Eiffel syntax well
enough to recognize it on sight.

But I don't know Eiffel.  I could write a program in it--nominally
non-trivial--but I would be flipping pages back and forth every time I
wrote another line.  A lot like the way I can "read" a number of natural
languages with a dictionary on my lap.

Yours, David...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s




From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Wed Nov  6 18:58:05 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:58:05 -0800
Subject: Subclassing the min() build-in function?
References: <18eef4ae.0211060911.2c0a7731@posting.google.com> <6qznsmhatn.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <daacqa.ij3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Bernhard Herzog fed this fish to the penguins on Wednesday 06 November 
2002 09:23 am:


> Your proposal woule mean that it returns the list which obviously is
> not backwards compatible.
>

>>> def safe_min(*arg):
...     return min(list(arg))
...
>>> safe_min(1,2,3)
1
>>> safe_min(2,1,3)
1
>>> safe_min(1)
1

-- 
--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From Robert_NJ_Sykes at msn.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 12:33:17 2002
From: Robert_NJ_Sykes at msn.co.uk (Rob Sykes)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 17:33:17 GMT
Subject: COM interfaces and inheritance
References: <Xns92CB6026FC70Brobjohnrichardcouk@192.168.0.246> <3DDA31DD.35E676C0@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92CBB293D8BBDrobjohnrichardcouk@192.168.0.246>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in
news:3DDA31DD.35E676C0 at hotmail.com: 

<snip>

> The first step is to get a handle on the module for your COM
> library, like so
> 
> from win32com.client.gencache     import GetModuleForProgID
> myModule = GetModuleForProgID('your.com.library.name.here')
> 
This was the bit I was missing/didn't know. I'd tried doing a 
regular import of the gen_py'd module, also running it in an
interpreter.


> Each possible interface in that module will have a class to
> represent it. Each of the "constructors" for those classes will
> recognise if you have passed it an instance of an object that
> implements a related interface. If  you have, then it will
> return to you an instance that implements the interface you
> need. 
> 
> So some code might look like this
> 
> objA = createObjA() # Returned object implements interface A
> objB = myModule.IInterface2(objA)
> # Bingo!
> 
> At least, that works for me :-)

And it works for me :-)

Ta muchly

-- 
Rob Sykes 

Born again Bairn                  | 'The despair I can live with.
rob at john-richard dot co dot uk |  It's the hope I can't stand'
(header email for spambots)       |  (Anon.)


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 09:52:49 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:52:49 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <87u1ib6bte.fsf@key.localdomain> <3u3D9.49382$Yw.2293340@news2.tin.it> <874rabdo3t.fsf@key.localdomain>
Message-ID: <5r6D9.50977$Yw.2347638@news2.tin.it>

Patrick W wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> 
>> > (defclass thing () ())
>> > (defclass paper (thing) ())
>> > (defclass rock (thing) ())
>> > (defclass scissors (thing) ())
>> > 
>> > (defgeneric beats? (thing thing))
>> > (defmethod beats? ((x thing) (y thing)) nil)
>> > (defmethod beats? ((x paper) (y rock)) t)
>> > (defmethod beats? ((x rock) (y scissors)) t)
>> > (defmethod beats? ((x scissors) (y paper)) t)
>> 
>> Multimethods are indeed very powerful, but it doesn't show "in the small"
>> (quite typical for many very powerful things)
> 
> Right.  I only intended to hint at a general concept that isn't widely
> known outside of the Lisp and Dylan communities.  It becomes *much*
> harder to 'fake' multiple dispatch (multiple polymorphism?) in more
> elaborate systems.

I'm not in either of those communities, and multimethods are the only
thing that sometimes make me wish I were -- so, they're not as little
known as all that.  And yes, in the general case faking multimethods
in a single-dispatch language is just as clunky as faking multiple
inheritance in a single-inheritance language, or faking OO dispatching
in a language that has no intrinsic OO mechanisms.


> I think Lisp's multimethods are a decent example of how macros can
> simplify a system in the long run.  To graft support for multimethods
> onto most languages would be major surgery -- but in Lisp it's just a
> bunch of macros that extend Lisp in Lisp, leaving you with Lisp.

Macros let you design a different language on top of whatever language
you have (that supports full-power macros).  That's my major beef with
them, and ultimately the reason I'm not in the Lisp or Dylan communities,
as above noticed.  I don't WANT to use a language that lets me redesign
it -- worse, I most definitely don't want to use a language that lets
_others_ redesign it, and find myself stuck using and supporting half
a dozen different (and mostly badly designed) languages in as many
disparate projects.  If my purpose in life was to experiment with
programming languages, I would surely feel differently; but it's not.


>> class thing: pass
>> class paper(thing): pass
>> class rock(thing): pass
>> class scissors(thing): pass
>> 
>> def beats(x, y):
>>     def are(X,Y): return isinstance(x,X) and isinstance(y,Y)
>>     return are(paper,rock) or are(rock,scissors) or are(scissors,paper)
> 
> Nifty ;-)

Yes, a little nested function taking class objects as parameters and
accessing the instance variables from its outer scope works nicely
here.  Of course, the limit of this approach comes when somebody
"from the outside" wants to extend it non-invasively -- as I coded
it, I've left no "hook" at all for such extensibility.  The Lisp
version above, on the other hand, makes it no problem for some third
party to add e.g. another class and the needed defmethod's to extent
the generic 'beats?' predicate to let the new class work with all
existing code.  To get such extensibility in Python I'd have to work
hard, e.g.:

class beats:
    beatpairs = (paper, rock), (rock, scissors), (scissors, paper)
    def __call__(self, x, y):
        for X, Y in self.beatpairs:
            if isinstance(x,X) and isinstance(y,Y): return True
        return False
    def addpair(self, X, Y):
        self.beatpairs = self.beatpairs + (X,Y)

now I could have several instances of "beats", each callable, all
sharing the three basic "A beats B" pairs of classes but also each
separately extensible by .addpair calls to model different sets
of rules -- but I've had to refactor the code for that, and it
has increased from three lines to eight.  Further, the decision
rule is still hardwired here to deal with class membership only,
which is why it's been relatively easy to switch the overall
organization to data-driven; in the Lisp example, one could have
a defmethod for certain specific classes that doesn't just return t or nil 
but goes on to compute whatever more complicated expression.  To
get THAT flexibility, I'd have to complicate class 'beats' yet more,
e.g include a third item in each 'pair' (spanish-inquisition time:-):

class beats:
    beatpairs = (paper, rock, 1), (rock, scissors, 1), (scissors, paper, 1)
    def __call__(self, x, y):
        for X, Y, z in self.beatpairs:
            if isinstance(x,X) and isinstance(y,Y):
                if callable(z): return z(x,y)
                else: return z
        return False
    def addpair(self, X, Y, what=1):
        self.beatpairs = self.beatpairs + (X,Y,what)

so I could somebeat.addpair(aclass, another) to mean than an instance
of aclass 'beats' one of another unconditionally (when evaluated by
the criteria in somebeat), or somebeat.addpair(Ba, Bo, pp) to mean
that for instances of Ba and Bo the 'beating' or otherwise is to be
decided by calling pp (which must be callable, to mean that:-) with
the instances as arguments.  And once again that's a small further
notch in complication which I'd be paying for a flexibility gain.


So, I do miss multiple dispatching, which would let me avoid this
infrastructure building just like I can avoid it in the more common
single dispatch case.

But I don't miss it ENOUGH to wish that Python had macros (shudder)...:-).
Not by a long shot, in fact...


Alex



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Wed Nov 13 10:26:58 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:26:58 +0100
Subject: Unit testing - Using Java Mock Objects in Python?
In-Reply-To: <8D7B1A876CBBD2119E6A00105AC57EF005CBB7A0@BE-BRU-EXCH-1>; from joel.quinet@be.unisys.com on Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 08:05:47AM -0600
References: <8D7B1A876CBBD2119E6A00105AC57EF005CBB7A0@BE-BRU-EXCH-1>
Message-ID: <20021113162658.A30315@prim.han.de>

Quinet, Joel wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Has anybody already tried to re-use or port the Java implementation 
> of Mock ojects (available on www.mockobjects.com) to Python?

Counter-Question: Do you know about the python unittest package?  
 
> Is it possible to combine the Java Mock objects with Python using Jython?

probably.

> It would be great to have available the Java Mock classes available to 
> be used from Python.

Could you describe shortly what makes Mock valuable for you?
I wasn't able understand the distinct features of Mock Objects from
the web site.  Is it that the framework manage deploying stubs rather 
than the real code? 

thanks,

    holger



From tundra at tundraware.com  Mon Nov 11 14:00:07 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 19:00:07 GMT
Subject: Tkinter listbox selection handling
References: <co6kqa.tqk2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <mailman.1037003594.13731.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mcuoqa.6be.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

Martin Franklin wrote:
<SNIP>

>>Then I add a handler:
>>
>>UI.listbox.bind('<button-1>', handlerfunc)
> 
> 
> 
> Try this...
> 
> UI.listbox.bind("<ButtonRelease-1>", handlerfunc)


I had tried this as well - same problem.  The use of listbox.nearest(event.y)
suggested here seemed to work best.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From dreed at capital.edu  Sat Nov  9 10:50:52 2002
From: dreed at capital.edu (Dave Reed)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:50:52 -0500
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
In-Reply-To: <usnipihg3okna2@corp.supernews.com> (claird@lairds.com)
References: <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list@python.org> <usnipihg3okna2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <200211091550.gA9Foq431040@localhost.localdomain>

> From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)

<snip>

> There's a real range in university courses.  Indeed,
> a depressing number of them are still stuck at syntax
> level.
> 
> Dave Reed, are you serious that decision-makers dis-
> qualify Python for the lack of enforced private 
> members?  Should I take it that they equally proscribe
> (conventionally pre-processed) C and C++?


That's just my impression/what I think is one of the biggest issues
that would discourage some academic types from switching to Python. I
don't have any hard evidence to support it. Obviously this didn't stop
me, but I'm relatively young for a college prof (early 30s), find
Python programming extremely fun, and definitely lean toward the
practical side of things. The other person in my dept. who teaches CS1
is about 20 years older than me and it didn't take much effort to
convince him to switch to Python even though I pointed out the lack of
private data to him. Of course, he has learned to hate C++ so that
made persuading him much easier :-)

Note: I am NOT advocating adding private members/methods to Python.

Dave



From dansilva at lynx.dac.neu.edu  Mon Nov 25 09:10:30 2002
From: dansilva at lynx.dac.neu.edu (Daniel Silva)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:10:30 -0500
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
In-Reply-To: <3DE21D7F.2050006@web.de>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAsV/9ZPps7kaNgsdz13mKIcKAAAAQAAAAHTr9l+aOjk6GUCOrVFLVOwEAAAAA@lynx.neu.edu>

> Pascal Costanza wrote: 
> So what I have in mind is not only a way to make use of Common Lisp
> libraries from Python. I am pretty sure that this is already possible.
I
> rather think that implementing Python in Common Lisp has several
> advantages beyond mere reuse options. Here are some ideas.
> 

Do you know of anyone working on that right now? (Python in Lisp, not
Lisp libraries for Python)

-- Daniel




From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Nov 21 13:53:45 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:53:45 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <20021121175715.27850.51306.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021121175715.27850.51306.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18EwUz-0003qk-00@harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi Alex,
On Thursday 21 November 2002 09:57 am,  Alex Martelli wrote:
> [...] ?Macros let people add warts to a language: good language designers
> are few and far between, but macros make everybody into a language
> designer, and not all people understand or acknowledge their limitations
> in this regard [...]
> 
> [...] ?With Python (as with most other languages), the
> language is bedrock: you're stuck with however it was designed. 
> [...] we can take the language itself for
> granted and spend all of our time and energy on higher-level issues.

You've never read the Zope source code, have you? ;-D

Ow! The pain!  Zope manages to shake the foundations pretty
heavily -- implementing acquisition by overloading __getattr__ and
so forth. It *is* possible to warp Python pretty intensely if you have
a mind to.  I spend quite a bit of time reading and re-reading the
Zope sources to figure out how stuff is supposed to work and I'm still 
spinning around.  I think the real problem is a lack of well-defined APIs for 
product developers (the through-the-web API is pretty solid, though).

I think they're actually trying to simplify some of that with
Zope 3, which has to be a good thing, for the reasons you state.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From andersjm at inbound.dk  Sun Nov 10 14:00:51 2002
From: andersjm at inbound.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:00:51 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqlos7$66p$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <qpwz9.16127$oC3.1394670@news010.worldonline.dk> <3dce96ad$0$12451$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <l2yz9.16335$oC3.1414749@news010.worldonline.dk>

"Jens Axel S?gaard" <usenet at jasoegaard.dk> wrote:
> >
> > I'm curious: what exactly did McCarthy's new syntax look like?  Have
> > you got any pointers to specs, examples or such on the web?
>
> I can't remember a link - but if you want to Google for them,
> they were calles M-expressions.

Tried that, but every professor teaching Lisp/Scheme seems to mention
M-expressions in passing before proceeding to S-exprs, drowning any
useful information.

I wonder if M-expressions changed the concrete syntax but preserved
the abstract syntax? I mean did it preserve the basic
everything-is-a-cons-or-atom model just adding some infix syntactic
sugar on top, or was it fundamentally different?

- Anders





From hannibal1812 at canada.com  Sat Nov 16 10:27:24 2002
From: hannibal1812 at canada.com (hannibal)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 07:27:24 -0800
Subject: pykde on mandrake 9
Message-ID: <63921a7c.0211160727.23dd93bc@posting.google.com>

i built  pyqt and pykde on my mandrake 9.0 system.
When i try to run the examples of  pykde i receive "import
error:qcommonstyle not found".
Any idea ?


From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sat Nov 16 17:05:43 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:05:43 -0500
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>
 <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net>
 <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
 <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
 <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
 <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
 <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
 <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
 <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
 <mailman.1037232380.29621.python-list@python.org>
 <3DD66C66.36420BBE@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3Es19kKkXoWM092yn@gnosis.cx>                

|>     What BENEFIT would there be to putting the Python documentation
|>     in DocBook?

|At least one I can think of is that if the source were in XML,
|something I can manipulate with my eyes closed thanks both to
|its simplicity and to the herculean efforts of the many people
|who have contributed to the many Python XML technologies, I
|would have the opportunity to "play" with it, and quite possibly
|would come up with some novel things...

You can certainly be forgiven for having missed this bit of the
discussion, but Martin v.  Loewis has pointed out that you can ALREADY
generate an XML version of the docs.  Not in DocBook, but in some custom
XML format.

    http://tinyurl.com/2r9p

So you are already able to write a cutom XSLT stylesheet, or use other
XML tools to play with the documentation.

The question is really about what advantage it would have to move the
XML *upstream* in the documentation chain.  And specifically to make
DocBook/XML the headwater of the whole thing.  On that question, I
believe there is no advantage at all, and quite a lot of disadvantages.

Yours, David...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies of
the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.



From jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com  Sun Nov 24 01:46:58 2002
From: jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com (Jim)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 06:46:58 GMT
Subject: to PYQT gurus
References: <3de030bd$0$18232$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3DE07595.7070504@SPAMnwinternet.com>

Fabien HENON wrote:
> I have written an GUI app using Pyton, Tkinter and PWM.
> It is mainly an editor for POV, with color syntax highlighting and many 
> nice features. I can be found at :

> http://pyvon.sourceforge.net

> My question is simple : I am learning to use QT. Do you think it is 
> feasible to transfer my from Tkinter to PYQT.
> I would like to benefit from QT's quickness.

I don't feel qualified to respond under the title, but ...

I'm not familiar enough with Tkinter to judge whether
it's feasible. I would guess PyQt does everything
Tkinter does (and probably more), but it may do things
differently.

Not much of an answer, I know, but the main reason I
responded is that there is also a QScintilla module
in development - 0.2 version, but pretty far along
from what I understand. QScintilla is an editor
class that might make your app a lot easier to
convert.

You can find it at:

http://riverbankcomputing.co.uk/qscintilla

The latest version is in the downloads section.


Jim



From rmunn at pobox.com  Mon Nov 25 14:32:58 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:32:58 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arjns3$rcs$0@216.39.172.122> <3DDD6D7A.3010308@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrnau4uuc.plc.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Bengt Richter wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:03:48 +0100, Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> wrote:
>>>Could you try to describe what it means to you to think in Python? What 
>>>makes it different from thinking in other languages? (This is not a 
>>>rhetorical question!)
>>>
>> 
>> (Please pardon my jumping in with my view. I realize you didn't ask me ;-)
> 
> Nor did you answer him! :)
> 
> What is it about Pythonthink that is different from Otherlangthink?
> 
> I actually was wondering the same thing, because I do not see a lot 
> different in Python from C other than very practical advantages, such as 
> the indentation thang and GC. But I just am digging into Python, so 
> whadoiknow?

Well, one of the first observations I would make about the difference is
Python's high-level-ness. I came to Python via a C->Perl->Python path,
but with rather little time actually spent in Perl. So my experience in
learning Python has been, I think, rather similar to what yours will be.
I found myself writing for loops that weren't necessary, e.g.:

    # Thinking in C, translating into Python
    new_list = []
    for item in old_list:
        if (item % 2):   # Keep only the odd numbers
            new_list.append(item)

    # Thinking in Python
    new_list = filter(lambda x: x%2, old_list)

Of course, list comprehensions are much more similar to the for loop, so
this is not the best example; but I think you'll get the idea.

I think my biggest adjustment going from C to Python was that instead of
thinking code-centrically, I started thinking data-centrically. In other
words, I started thinking, "What operation do I want to perform on my
data next?" and looking for the shortest way to do that operation. It's
surprising how many of those shortest ways turned out to be idiomatic
one- or two-liners in Python. :-)

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From maney at pobox.com  Thu Nov 28 11:11:20 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:11:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038447339.6993.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as5f78$fkq$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 maney at pobox.com wrote:
>> On the contrary, the only time the lack of (explicit) assignment in
>> expression has bothered me the issue was *horizontal* space.
> 
> Can you give an example please?

Been there, did that.  In brief, it arose from a simple alternation in
looking for matches to a set of regexes in a string.  The result of the
regex's application was needed both as the conditional test and within
the body of the conditional clause.  The simple and straightforward
implementation added a level of indentation for each case because the
elif had to become

        else:
            m = re_4.match(...)
            if m:
                ... code for record type 4

Yes, there are a number of ways to work around this.  They all feel
more or less like kluges, and they all have their pros and cons. 
Please do NOT start that discussion again here.

>>  It also sounds as though you could be confusing a desire for concise
>> expression with a much sillier objective - at least it seems so entirely
>> silly to me that I can't really take it seriously.  Of course it's much
>> easier to defeat a silly, contrived argument.  :-/
> 
> Sorry, I have no idea what this means.

Refuting the desire for operator= on the grounds that saving a little
horizontal space is unimportant sounded rather like you had setup a
straw man the better to have an easy, assured victory.  I suppose it's
possible that there was context that I've overlooked (or never saw as
context for your post - I'm still coming to grips with the way the
mailing list side of this forum breaks threading sometimes), but that
seems such a silly argument as not to need refutation.  Perhaps it's a
matter of taste.


From jarek at usun.zgoda.biz  Fri Nov  8 01:24:59 2002
From: jarek at usun.zgoda.biz (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:24:59 +0100
Subject: PySol Windows binaries, anyone?
References: <mailman.1036695670.29735.python-list@python.org> <afe3b146.0211072015.e3ddd81@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m72k2ob1b0d0$.qv6osv0ymkhj.dlg@40tude.net>

Dnia 7 Nov 2002 20:15:59 -0800, brian_l at yahoo.com (Brian Lenihan) pisze 
na grupie comp.lang.python:

> http://homepage.mac.com/brian_l

Sorry, 404 Not Found...

-- 
Zdr?wko
Jarek Zgoda

-- 
Serwis Usenet w portalu Gazeta.pl -> http://www.gazeta.pl/usenet/


From theller at python.net  Wed Nov 20 02:56:09 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 08:56:09 +0100
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
Message-ID: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net>

I had already posted this under a different subject, this is a more detailed
description of the problem (and my question):

When porting an extension from Windows to Linux, I got crashes when
C code calls back into Python.

Here's what I'm doing:

    Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREAD
    call_some_c_code()
    Py_END_ALLOW_THREAD

The call_some_c_code() function calls back into Python, so I have to
acquire the interpreter lock again, and create a new threadstate in
the callback. Note that g_interp is initialized when the extension
module is loaded:

static PyInterpreterState *g_interp;

void call_back_into_python(void)
{
    PyThreadState *pts;

    PyEval_AcquireLock();
    pts = PyThreadState_New(g_interp);
    if (!pts)
        Py_FatalErorr(...);
    if (NULL != PyThreadState_Swap(pts)
        Py_FatalError(...);

    /* now call Python functions */

    pts = PyThreadState_Swap(NULL);
    if (!pts)
        Py_FatalError(...);
    PyThreadState_Clear(pts);
    PyThreadState_Delete(pts);
    PyEval_ReleaseLock();
}

The crash occurred in the PyEval_AcquireLock() function, and it worked
fine when I added a call to PyEval_InitThread() at module load time.

This was unneeded on Windows, I assume because on Windows
PyEval_InitThreads() has been called before.  My question is: why do I
have to call this function on Linux, but not on Windows?  Does it do
any harm if I call the function when the ctypes module is loaded, or
should I wait until the callbacks are actually needed?

Thomas


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 24 22:20:40 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 03:20:40 GMT
Subject: index of items in a List in sorted order
References: <75e086cd.0211241841.72e35ecf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ars4u8$986$0@216.39.172.122>

On 24 Nov 2002 18:41:01 -0800, nbatada1 at yahoo.com (Nizar Batada) wrote:

>I am posting a code to get index of sorted list for 
>future reference.
>if you can make this code faster, i'll appreciate your input
>nizar
>########################################################3
>#!/usr/bin/python
>
>def ind_of_sorted(L):
>        ''' return index of items in sorted order '''
>	k = len(L)
>	d = {}
>	# take care of repeated values
>	[ d.setdefault(L[i],[]).append(i) for i in range(k)]
>	auxL = d.keys()
>	auxL.sort()
>	inds = []
>	[inds.extend( d[x] ) for x in auxL]
>	return auxL,inds
>
>if __name__ == '__main__':
>	L=['r','g','a','f','r','j']
>	Lsort,Lsort_I=ind_of_sorted(L)
>	print L
>	print Lsort
>	print Lsort_I

 >>> def ind_of_sorted2(L):
 ...     items = zip(L,range(len(L)))
 ...     items.sort()
 ...     return zip(*items)
 ...
 >>> ind_of_sorted2(list('rgafrj'))
 [('a', 'f', 'g', 'j', 'r', 'r'), (2, 3, 1, 5, 0, 4)]

Of course, it doesn't eliminate the duplicates, but now there's
probably some time left to do that ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From the_mr_man26 at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 28 13:48:38 2002
From: the_mr_man26 at hotmail.com (Mr Man)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 10:48:38 -0800
Subject: PyXML unable to make_parser twice
Message-ID: <999e7ee9.0211281048.786d3867@posting.google.com>

Hi - I'm unsure if this is the correct newsgroup to post to - feel
free to direct me to a more appropriate on if necessary.

I am using PyXML 0.8.1-1 with Python 2.1.1 - with it I am unable to
call make_parser twice like so

me at akira:/usr/lib/python2.1> python
Python 2.1.1 (#1, Sep 24 2001, 05:28:47)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (SuSE)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import xml.sax as sax
>>> import xml.sax.saxutils as saxutils
>>> p = sax.sax2exts.make_parser()
>>> p2 = sax.sax2exts.make_parser()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "xml/sax/sax2exts.py", line 37, in make_parser
    return XMLParserFactory.make_parser(parser_list)
  File "xml/sax/saxexts.py", line 64, in make_parser
    return self._create_parser(parser_name)
  File "xml/sax/saxexts.py", line 43, in _create_parser
    return drv_module.create_parser()
  File "xml/sax/saxexts.py", line 74, in _create_parser
    raise _exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable
TypeError: __init__() takes at least 2 arguments (1 given)
>>>


Now obviously - I need to free something or other in between creating
the first one - and creating the second one - but I am not sure what.

Thanks for listening
Paul..


From robloche at fr.st  Sat Nov  2 20:02:26 2002
From: robloche at fr.st (Rodolphe)
Date: 03 Nov 2002 01:02:26 GMT
Subject: Windows size problem with Tkinter
Message-ID: <Xns92BB14C2DBFA1roblochefrst@213.228.0.136>

Hi everybody,

I wrote three progs in Python/Tkinter and they all work very well
_separatly_. I said separatly because if one of them is running and if
I try to run another one, its window is reduced to a little square and
I only can see a little bit of the top left of the GUI. 

At the beginning of my three progs, I set up the GUI (labels, buttons,
entries, etc.) and call a function "center_widget()" that fixes the
size of the window (width_min = width_max = current_width, same for
the height) and then centers it on the screen. That's the only thing I
see that can produce that strange behaviour... 

I'm using Python 2.2 under Linux Mandrake 8.

Thanks for your help...

--
Rodolphe


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 27 23:26:22 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:26:22 +1300
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <mailman.1038414274.6010.python-list@python.org> <m2r8d67np1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <200211280809.01424.bhards@bigpond.net.au> <mailman.1038433013.1207.python-list@python.org> <u5t3sa.854.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3DE59AEE.6080700@something.invalid>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> Other than the strange aspect that metric users tend to reverse the 
> nature of the units... Rather than distance/volume I often saw 
> volume/distance (litres/km for instance)


Well, for a quantity that's called "fuel consumption",
it could be argued that volume/distance makes more sense.
A higher value for fuel consumption should mean you use more
fuel, not less!

Also it's more convenient for calculating things
like how much fuel you'll need to travel a certain
distance.

Note that it's usually it's quoted as litres per 100km
rather than litres per km, to get numbers of a reasonable
magnitude.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Mon Nov 25 03:39:24 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:39:24 +0100
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <arsni0$pnk$1@news.netpower.no>

"Thomas Guettler" <pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727 at thomas-guettler.de...
> On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 02:35:23 +0100, Simon Burton wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I just read Guido's "python regret's" slide's from OSCON,
> >
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=OSCON+%22python+regrets%2
2
> > and one thing i can't work out is,
> > he is saying we can do map() and filter() with list comprehensions (it's
> > faster too) eg.
>
> Thank you for this link.
>
> I never liked filter, map and reduce.
>
> I think it would be good to remove them from the python tutorial.
> I think the tutorial would be easier for newbies it
> it would be smaller.
>
>  thomas

I find lambda and map very useful - used carefully, they can be of great
value to the readability of a program (letting you write exactly what you
mean in a short space, without cluttering up the code with unnecessary
"def"s and function names that are not needed).  Filter is less useful -
list comprehensions are often easier to read and write.  Reduce is a lot
less useful, because it is a lot less obvious what it is doing.

But while I like lambda and map, I think they could well be moved a lot
further back in the tutorial.  They are the kind of things that newbies will
have to be able to understand, but not necessarily learn to write
themselves - it is important that they are in the tutorial so that people
know where to look for explanations when they see them in code, but the
tutorial should not give the impression that full knowledge of lambda and
friends is essential to learning Python.





From bramwijnands at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 25 15:53:33 2002
From: bramwijnands at hotmail.com (Bram Wijnands)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:53:33 GMT
Subject: Some good Python tuts ?
Message-ID: <h5wE9.101$Tl3.2735@nlnews00.chello.com>

well i'm looking for some good tutorials for python im not a beginning
programmer i know perl/php/vb and basic :P

anyway got some ideas ? :)

thnx in advanced




From jussij at zeusedit.com  Wed Nov 20 07:26:09 2002
From: jussij at zeusedit.com (Jussi Jumppanen)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:26:09 +1100
Subject: My Python Editor "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE" does not refesh
References: <mailman.1037422524.22358.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDB7F61.1226@zeusedit.com>

kathik thyagarajan wrote:

> I am having the trouble of having to exit the editor every time I make
> some changes to my code in order to execute the code using the
> "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE"  editor. DOS work fine but
> the problem with DOS is that and other editors like gvim is that I am
> unable to debug my code with them. 

Shameless plug: Why not try a decent programmer's editor like Zeus 
                for example? 

Zeus will colorize python code, will happily run the python debugger 
and can even be extended using the built in python scripting engine.

   http://www.zeusedit.com/awards.html

Jussi Jumppanen
Author of: Zeus for Windows, Win32 (Brief, Emacs, etc) FTP Text Editor
http://www.zeusedit.com


From nelson at crynwr.com  Mon Nov 11 09:40:37 2002
From: nelson at crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 09:40:37 -0500
Subject: PEP #99484663
References: <mailman.1036981948.6857.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2adkguq3e.fsf@desk.crynwr.com>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> writes:

> You don't hear of long-time Python users complaining about the indentation
> thing; it's a newbie/first impression issue. Not only do I like it as a
> feature, I see it as an open-mindedness filter: people who are willing to
> consider that something a little different than "normal" might be good
> stick around to give Python a try, others quickly move on to something
> more palatable without wasting too much of their own time (they would have
> probably been unhappy with Python anyway).

Could be.  Depends on whether you think people reject Python because
it has many unusual features, or because they reject significant
indentation.  This feature eliminates "significant indentation" as a
reason to reject Python.  "Oh, you don't like significant indentation?
Use braces, then.  You still have to indent, but you were going to
indent anyway, right?"

-- 
-russ nelson              http://russnelson.com |
Crynwr sells support for free software  | PGPok | it's better to be free
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | than to be correct.
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | +1 315 268 9201 FAX   |


From bwfc10 at aol.com  Sat Nov 16 12:06:31 2002
From: bwfc10 at aol.com (Bwfc10)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 17:06:31 GMT
Subject: quick question
References: <mailman.1037458463.20139.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20021116120631.08993.00000062@mb-fo.aol.com>

Thank you for your help, it isn't
homework but whats wrong with 
me asking on here when i do get homework?


From usenet at imperialviolet.org  Sat Nov 23 08:55:36 2002
From: usenet at imperialviolet.org (Adam Langley)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:55:36 +0000
Subject: ARP request/reply by Python?
References: <mailman.1038029918.11285.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.23.13.55.35.746477@imperialviolet.org>

On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:36:33 +0900, Brian Lee wrote:

> Can I read and write ARP packets by Python? I found that 
> type number for IP datagram is 0x0800 and 0x0806 for ARP request/reply
> in ethernet frame header. How can I set type number(0x0806) to ethernet
> frame header in Python socket? Any site link on this?

Your best bet is wrapping something like libnet in Python. Libnet is a
library for building weird and wonderful packets and a quick google search
turns up:
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/pylibnet
which looks like it's just what you need. The homepage even has a code
example for building arp packets.



From benc1 at today.com.au  Sat Nov  2 06:55:44 2002
From: benc1 at today.com.au (Ben C)
Date: 2 Nov 2002 03:55:44 -0800
Subject: Wrapping a .dll under windows with SWIG
References: <8beb91f5.0210312226.7eb08c08@posting.google.com> <apuf10$50pp8$1@ID-147588.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <8beb91f5.0211020355.585257b3@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I decided to give calldll/windll a go for starters 

thanks

Ben


From bobx at linuxmail.org  Sun Nov  3 16:33:55 2002
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Bob X)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 21:33:55 GMT
Subject: pyqt rules
References: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <mailman.1036344603.1495.python-list@python.org> <3dc571d0$0$63818$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <7Dgx9.41909$Lg2.11396126@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Boudewijn Rempt" <boud at valdyas.org> wrote in message
news:3dc571d0$0$63818$e4fe514c at dreader1.news.xs4all.nl...
> Not too mention buying the book -- don't try Amazon,
> they seem to have problems delivering, but at
> http://www.opendocs.org/pyqt :-).
> --
> Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org
I would love to use PyQt but it seems I have to have the Qt NC version to
make it run but I cannot find a Windows binary anywhere. I do not have VC++
to compile the beast either.

Bob




From msoulier at storm.ca._nospam  Mon Nov 18 19:40:45 2002
From: msoulier at storm.ca._nospam (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 00:40:45 GMT
Subject: multi-quoted strings for HERE documents
Message-ID: <slrnatj24u.7mq.msoulier@tigger.digitaltorque.ca>

    Hey people,

    At work I do a mix of Perl and Python. I'm a big fan of the latter.
However, there's one thing that I like in Perl that I haven't quite gotten the
same feel out of Python yet. That would be HERE documents. 

ie. 

print<<EOF;
<table>
    <tr>
        <td>cell contents</td>
    </r>
</table>
EOF

    Now, I can get close in Python with multi-line strings, like so...

print """
<table>
    <tr>
        <td>cell contents</td>
    </r>
</table>"""

    But, there's an initial newline in the output because of where the
beginning quotes are. I can put the quotes on the next line to avoid that...

print \
"""<table>
etc

    But then the block isn't really lined-up the same as the output will look
like. It's a minor thing, I know, but it bugs me. 

    Does anyone have a better way of doing this?

    Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at storm.ca>, GnuPG pub key: 5BC8BE08
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to Unix
HTML Email Considered Harmful: http://expita.com/nomime.html


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 19 22:18:03 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:18:03 -0600
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7?
In-Reply-To: <OrDC9.1494$Kw6.890938@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
References: <mailman.1037753912.31805.python-list@python.org>
        <OrDC9.1494$Kw6.890938@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <15834.65259.62388.857059@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >>> os.system('/usr/local/bin/wget ...')
    doug> takes less than 2 seconds

    doug> while
    >>> u = urllib.urlopen("http://...")
    ...

    doug> takes about 2 minutes

Silly question perhaps, but is urllib2.urlopen() any faster?

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From imbosol at vt.edu  Wed Nov 13 20:38:33 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:38:33 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <aqunac$qj$4@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <aquvr6$qrb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

maney at pobox.com wrote:
> Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote:
>> Third, it is an incomplete solution.
> 
> It's complete enough for me - when the stuff-to-be-done gets too big, then I
> consider wrapping it up as a function perfectly reasonable.  As, I want to
> point out, was done in the sketch I posted.  :-)

Whoa--what about all that passing-state-around stuff you mentioned in
another message?  What if you have more than one value to assign (that
would need to be used inside the if clause)?  Sorry, but I must
disagree again.  It's an incomplete solution.


>> A new syntax would be the best solution, IMHO.  For example, the
>> suppose statement:
> 
> Would I be right in supposing that you are not unfamiliar with Knuth's paper
> "Structured Programming with Goto Statements"?  :-)

No, I've never been a computer science student.  I'm familar with the
concepts in a lot of Knuth's writings, but don't recall ever reading
any Knuth directly.  Is this the one where Knuth claims that any
useful loop can be put in the following form:

loop:
    <do-something>
    if <exit-condition>:
        break
    <do-something-else>

What specifically about the paper you mention is contrary to my
suppose clause?


>> However, it is not likely to happen because it adds a new keyword, and
>> the idiom is not too common.  (Some will argue that it's hard to
>> follow, although I wouldn't say it's any harder than else: clauses on
>> fors and whiles.)
> 
> The real problem is that there is no end to number of special-case control
> structures you can find some use for.

Yes.  It's a balancing act deciding which control structures are
crucial enough to include.  In this case, and unlike most other cases,
the current control structures and workarounds available are too ugly;
that might justify a new syntax.  But in the end, the idiom is not
common enough.

I would say creating a new syntax for the sake of this uncommon idiom
isn't much more ridiculous than changing the assignment semantics just
for this uncommon idiom.  They are both big changes for a small
problem.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From facelle at libero.it  Thu Nov  7 14:51:49 2002
From: facelle at libero.it (Fabrizio)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:51:49 GMT
Subject: Numarray and bitwise shifting
Message-ID: <pvzy9.3053$Zn2.76931@twister1.libero.it>

Hi,

Is there a way to perform bitwise shifting in a Numarray array ?

E.g. ; I have an array defined like this :

a = numarray.array([[1,0,0,1], [1,1,1,0]], type ='Bool')
print a

[[1,0,0,1]
[1,1,1,0]]

and I want to rightshift it by one position; that it, tranform it into :

[[0,1,0,0]
[1,1,1,1]]



I have tried the following three ways:

1-
a = numarray.rshift(a,1)

2-
a = a >> 1

3-
a = operator.rshift(a,1)

but they all lead to the same result which is not what I expected.


TIA


Fabrizio







From cliechti at gmx.net  Fri Nov  8 19:10:14 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 02:10:14 +0200
Subject: Questions about tuple?
References: <mailman.1036801694.17667.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns92C1164416F70cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Mindy <csshi99 at yahoo.com> wrote in news:mailman.1036801694.17667.python-
list at python.org:

> Hey, given a tuple t(a,b), is there any function in
> Python that I can get a, b individually from t?
> Actually, I have a list whose element is tuples. Say:
> 
> tuple_list = [(1,'a'),(3,'b'),(2,'l'),(8,'p')]
> 
> Then I want to get two lists from this tuple_list. The
> first list contains the first elements in the tuple of
> the tuple_list. 
> 
> first_list = [1,3,2,8]
> 
> And the second list contains all the second elements,
> also maintaining the original order as in tuple_list.
> 
> second_list = ['a','b','l','p']
> 
> So how to get this easily? Thanks!

the magic of zip will do it for you ;-)

>>> first_list, second_list = zip(*tuple_list)

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From mwh at python.net  Sun Nov 10 08:27:29 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:27:29 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <eppstein-DC177C.17122508112002@news.service.uci.edu> <7h3adkiyjjr.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqjfjg$p41$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <7h3fzu9woap.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong) writes:

> According to Michael Hudson  <mwh at python.net>:
> >  { Java, Python, ocaml, Common Lisp, C++, perl }
> 
> What language is this funny looking list in? ;-)

You could make it CL with a reader macro...

But it was meant to be a set, as Erik said.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  If i don't understand lisp, it would be wise to not bray about
  how lisp is stupid or otherwise criticize, because my stupidity
  would be archived and open for all in the know to see.
                                                -- Xah, comp.lang.lisp


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov  6 05:26:28 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 10:26:28 GMT
Subject: How to use zipfile
References: <3dc8c6b3$1@shknews01>
Message-ID: <o76y9.77281$aL4.2396624@news1.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

Jack Lau wrote:

> I am a beginner to learn python. Could anyone tell me how to use zipfile.
> I want to zip a file like "a.txt" and zipped it into "abc.zip". Then how
> can I do ?

import zipfile

zipobj = zipfile.ZipFile('abc.zip', 'w', zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED)
zipobj.write('abc.txt')
zipobj.close()


Alex



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 20 01:24:20 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 00:24:20 -0600
Subject: quick question
In-Reply-To: <arcnet$hakf3$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> ("Cousin Stanley"'s
 message of "Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:03:14 -0700")
References: <20021116051220.01520.00000047@mb-bk.aol.com>
	<mailman.1037458463.20139.python-list@python.org>
	<arc1p1$h5q7a$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
	<mailman.1037669366.5507.python-list@python.org>
	<arcnet$hakf3$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <m2el9giwrv.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Cousin" == Cousin Stanley <CousinStanley at HotMail.com> writes:


After all that discussion, I thought it would be worthwhile to wrap up
with a class that does counting of items in a sequence (like icecream
votes!) that takes into account the results of your timing routines.
The code should perform as well as any we've discussed, and has a
simple interface.

Although, the example below tabulates character frequencies in english
words (useful for crypt-analysis of Caesar ciphers), it would work on
as well on a file of votes.  Just do

  c = counter()
  c.count(file('myfile.dat'))

from __future__ import division

class counter(dict):
    "Count the number of occurances in a sequence (or several seqs)"

    def total(self):
        return reduce(int.__add__, self.values())

    def count(self, seq):
        for x in seq:
            self[x] = self.get(x,0)+1

    def sort(self):
        "return a list of (count, item) pairs sorted by decreasing count"
        x = [(count, item) for (item, count) in self.items()]
        x.sort()
        x.reverse()
        return x

# compute the frequency of characters in english words    
s  = file('/usr/share/dict/linux.words').read()
c = counter()
c.count(s)
total = c.total()

for (count, letter) in c.sort():
    print '%s\t%%%1.2f' % (letter, 100.0*count/total)


This must be in the cookbook already.....

John Hunter



From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Nov  5 16:35:14 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 16:35:14 -0500
Subject: power TypeErrors
In-Reply-To: <200211052054.PAA05238@nealtech.net>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHAEMDDNAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[anton wilson]
> I'm trying to understand the possible type errors for **
>
> The language reference states that
>
>
> The power operator has the same semantics as the built-in pow() function,
> when called with two arguments: it yields its left argument raised to the
> power of its right argument. The numeric arguments are first
> converted to a
> common type. The result type is that of the arguments after
> coercion; if the
> result is not expressible in that type (as in raising an integer to a
> negative power, or a negative floating point number to a broken power), a
> TypeError exception is raised.

The docs are out of date here.  I opened a bug report:

<http://sf.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=634069&group_id=5470&atid=1
05470>


> I'm running code such as:
>
> 1 ** -2

int to negative int returns a float now.

> -1.2 ** 0.5

That doesn't do what you think, but (-1.2) ** 0.5 would (and raises
ValueError, not TypeError).

> and there is no type error.
>
> How do I generate a type error?

For example, try

    3 ** 'a'




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Nov 29 06:23:31 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:23:31 +0000
Subject: scoping/module life puzzle
Message-ID: <qwYrbKAz4059EwCm@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

I would be grateful if someone can explain what's going on here. First
off why do I need to keep a reference to the module (self._m=m) If I
don't then it seems as though the module is dismembered (join-->None)
even though the module object has an extant reference the run method.

Secondly even if I keep the module referenced why does A().run()(L)
crash when a=A();a.run()(L) doesn't?

######################
code='''from string import join
def run(L):
        print 'in run before join',
        X = join(L,' ')
        print 'in run after join',
        return X
'''
class A:
        def run(self):
                m = getattr(self,'_m',None)
                if not m:
                        from imp import new_module
                        m = new_module('myrunner')
                        exec code in m.__dict__
                        self._m = m #we must have this or nothing works
                return m.run

        def do_run(self,L):
                return self.run()(L)
L=['a','b','c']
a=A()
print 0,a.do_run(L)
print 1,a.run()(L)
print 2,A().do_run(L)
print 3,A().run()(L)
######################
output with self._m=m ie keep a ref to the module

C:\>\tmp\tmload.py
0 in run before join in run after join a b c
1 in run before join in run after join a b c
2 in run before join in run after join a b c
3 in run before join
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\tmp\tmload.py", line 25, in ?
    print 3,A().run()(L)
  File "<string>", line 4, in run
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
######################
If I comment self._m = m then nothing works 

C:\>\tmp\tmload.py
0 in run before join
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\tmp\tmload.py", line 22, in ?
    print 0,a.do_run(L)
  File "C:\tmp\tmload.py", line 19, in do_run
    return self.run()(L)
  File "<string>", line 4, in run
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable

-- 
Robin Becker


From zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Nov  8 09:37:06 2002
From: zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:37:06 +0100
Subject: Upload file with multipart/formdata
References: <aqga8k$69g$02$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1036759511.17101.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqghu1$b78$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Skip Montanaro schrieb:
>     Thomas> I want to upload a binary file with the script from:
>     Thomas> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/146306
> 
>     Thomas> ASCII files get uploaded without problem, but binary data gets
>     Thomas> cut before all 0xA1 bytes.
> 
> Just taking an educated guess since I can't get to ActiveState's website to
> browse that recipe, but...
> 
> Open the file in binary mode, e.g.
> 
>     f = file("somefile", "rb")

Now it works! Thank you very much

  thomas



From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Mon Nov 25 05:46:28 2002
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 18:46:28 +0800
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no> <arsqsd$3j5$1@maud.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <7iof8e2agr.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Andr?" == Andr? N?ss <andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no> writes:

    >>  My guess is that the languages you are most familiar with are C and
    >> C++.

    Andr?> Java and PHP, actually, but that obviously doesn't make much of a
    Andr?> difference :)

How about Lisp? :)

Regards,
Isaac.


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Nov  6 16:52:45 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:52:45 +0000
Subject: newbie re question
References: <1osisu81483e4k3j905dun6diio6rt29ao@4ax.com> <sFfy9.2868$h%5.101793@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <i63jsu03dv3machun6gufu7kp95h44a3ec@4ax.com>

On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:17:12 GMT, "Fredrik Lundh"
<fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

>Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
>
>> I've been trying to grok re's and settled myself a little exercise:
>> concoct a re for a Python identifier.
>>
>> Now what I got is
>>
>> >>> pattern = re.compile(r'(\s|^)([\w_][\w\._]*)(\s|$)')
>> >>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
>> [('', 'aadf', ' '), (' ', 'b', ' '), (' ', 'aasa', ' '), (' ', 'aa', '> '), (' ', 'aa_aa', ' ')]
>>
>> But as you can see from the results, not all valid identifiers get
>> caught. For example, why isn't 'cdase' caught?
>
>findall returns non-overlapping matches.  there's only a single space
>between "aadf" and "cdase", and that was used by the first match.

Typical newbie error - forgot that it consumed the next char. And I do
want all the non overlapping matches.

>
>here's a better pattern:
>
>    pattern = re.compile(r'\b([a-zA-Z_]\w*)\b')
>
></F>
>

OK, I revamped a little your pattern but know I get too many matches,
e.g.

>>> pattern = re.compile(r'\b([a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z_\.]*)\b')
>>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'ad', 'aa', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'a', 'aa', '_aa',
'_aafr', 'aa_aa', 'aa__a', 'jk']

I want the re to reject 'ad:aa', 'a@', etc. which are not valid
identifiers. In the first case it returned 'ad' and 'aa' because \b
matched '@' and I do *not* want that.

I also tried using a not-match-lookahead as in

>>> pattern = re.compile(r'([a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z_\.]*)(?![^a-zA-Z_\.\s])')
>>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'a', 'aa', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'aa', '_aa', '_aaf',
'aa_aa', 'aa__', 'jk']

But as you see, it does not work either. In 'ad:aa' returns the matches
'a' and 'aa' - and I understand why it does - it just keeps backtracking
until you get match.

I'm beaten. Can any1 help me out here?

TIA,
Gon?alo Rodrigues



From mwh at python.net  Mon Nov 25 06:19:30 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:19:30 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfs
 adk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <VPecnd0fe8Ljg32gXTWcoQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <7h3u1i5sxx2.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

> There was much discussion about which of dict.iterkeys(), iteritems(),
> or itervalues() should be the default for 'in dict' both for 'if key
> in dict' and 'for key in dict'.  Note that since 'in seq' means same
> sequence in both contexts for other containers (and same underlying
> code is used to get sequence) it was wanted to keep 'in dict' meaning
> same also.  The consensus, considering use cases for both
> constructions, was that keys are most ofter what is wanted.  Think 'is
> word in dictionary' rather than 'is word,definition in dictionary'.
> Normal use of phonebook is similar.

For what it's worth (not much) I'm forever writing 

for k, v in d:
    ....

I can see the arguments for consistency, but I think this is my most
reliable Python error at the moment.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  : Giant screaming pieces of excrement, they are.
  I have a feeling that some of the people in here have a 
  MUCH more exciting time relieving themselves than I do.
                                       -- Mike Sphar & Dave Brown, asr


From grante at visi.com  Sat Nov 23 12:01:19 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 17:01:19 GMT
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnatvd5o.tjt.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5 at posting.google.com>, smartcardware.com wrote:

> I've heard that Python is a great scripting language with one downfall for
> game designers/programmers.  That is that you must embed your code into
> Python, instead of convensional scripting langauges where you embed the
> scripting language into your code.

Not true.

> What we don't want to have to develope our code around Python,
> rather develope our code and embed Python to fit our code when and
> where we desire.

Where did you get the info that you had to embed your code into Python? I'd
advise you to ignore advice from that source in the future.

> Any and all imput would be great!  Thanks!

Have you tried looking at www.python.org?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I appoint you
                                  at               ambassador to Fantasy
                               visi.com            Island!!!


From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Nov  4 15:30:36 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:30:36 -0800
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
In-Reply-To: <Up80dLADGtx9EwVK@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <003301c28441$085c1bb0$21795418@dell1700>

Robin Becker wrote:

> well I'll gladly contribute testing/examples

Testing is good. Have you found any problems? Please report them as
notes to the patch.

Examples are good too. Have you discovered any important usage patterns
that aren't listed in the SimpleXMLRPCServer docstring?

> Are there competing proposals for this kind of functionality?

I don't think so. 

Cheers,
Brian




From raj at grserv.med.jhmi.edu  Sat Nov  2 16:35:02 2002
From: raj at grserv.med.jhmi.edu (RajGopal Srinivasan)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 21:35:02 GMT
Subject: Tkinter in RH8.0
References: <ArCw9.2407$072.107557@newsfep2-gui> <pan.2002.11.02.13.07.24.183824@goodweb.de> <fJWw9.697$sS5.88294@newsfep2-gui>
Message-ID: <3DC44642.3050501@grserv.med.jhmi.edu>

I think you will also need tkinter-2.2.1-17.rpm

Cheers,
raj

Stuart MacGregor wrote:
> Thanks for the reply, and offer of hope of a simple resolution. I did use a 
> workstation install, and then added all the possible related entries in the 
> new redhat-config-packages tool.  Checking the rpms gives: -
> $ rpm -q tk
> tk-8.3.3-74
> $ rpm -q tcl
> tcl-8.3.3-74
> $ rpm -q python
> python-2.2.1-17
> I understand Tkinter is integrated with the python distribution and does not 
> require an rpm.
> 
> Runnung python gives: -
> $ python
> Python 2.2.1 (#1, Aug 30 2002, 12:15:30)
> [GCC 3.2 20020822 (Red Hat Linux Rawhide 3.2-4)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>from Tkinter import *
>>>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ImportError: No module named Tkinter
> 
> 
> I'll brows around the rpms directly, but if you have any ideas I would be 
> glad of them.
> 
> Cheers




From chezdique at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 14 22:44:47 2002
From: chezdique at yahoo.com (dique)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:44:47 +0800
Subject: What is the best way to join tuples?
References: <3dd32603$1_2@news.tm.net.my>
Message-ID: <3dd46d0b_1@news.tm.net.my>

Thanx Raymond and Terry! Both of you have great solutions.Work like a charm!
I wonder which is more efficient :p




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov  4 02:48:28 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 07:48:28 GMT
Subject: Book recommendation please
References: <1036349092.40578.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net> <LAex9.66857$aL4.2045429@news1.tin.it> <Pxkx9.42038$Lg2.11444037@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <gDpx9.83148$TD1.3796411@news2.tin.it>

Bob X wrote:

> "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
> news:LAex9.66857$aL4.2045429 at news1.tin.it...
> <snip>
>> Be warned -- I'm biased, having been a technical reviewer for both
>> books (only for the first half, i.e., examples excluded, in the
>> case of "Practical Python"), and being friend with each of the two
>> authors (each kindly reciprocated my reviewing, by serving in turn
>> as technical reviewers for my "Python in a Nutshell").
> 
> And "Python in a Nutshell" is coming out....when?   : )

The final draft, including all corrections required by technical
reviews, has been in the editor's hands for almost two months now.
I think it must have ended up queued behind other unrelated books
in O'Reilly's busy schedule.  Sorry, but this means things are now
out of my hands and I'm unable to make sensible predictions.


Alex



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Wed Nov  6 14:04:55 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:04:55 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <biDHvIAwJWy9Ewd8@jessikat.demon.co.uk>; from robin@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk on Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 06:41:52PM +0000
References: <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com> <mailman.1036601108.23735.python-list@python.org> <sA6q3WAW5Uy9Ew4K@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <20021106184401.X30315@prim.han.de> <biDHvIAwJWy9Ewd8@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20021106200455.Y30315@prim.han.de>

Robin Becker wrote:
> In message <20021106184401.X30315 at prim.han.de>, holger krekel
> <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes
> .....
> >I am not sure i understand this.  Why does python need to enter
> >restricted mode?  
> >
> >And doesn't PSYCO also do JIT-alike compiling?  That's at least how
> >i understood Armin.  As he also suggests to rewrite the python-core
> >in python to make it faster (with psyco) maybe this could help
> >with an c#-interpreter?  
> >
> >wildly-guessing'ly yours,
> >
> >    holger
> >
> I think that python allows any reference to change type dynamically.

There are some restrictions especially with new-style classes. 

> I don't think C# allows this, but am no expert. The implication is that
> C# can be very much more agressive in its JIT compilation.

PSYCO is - in effect - extremly aggressive about optimization.  It works
with the actual runtime types and defers compilation until type
information is available (when the execution path hits it). It allows
for multiple optimized code sets for one place.  Depending on the
actually arriving types one code-fragment of the code set is choosen.
PSYCO emits machine code.  

You might like to take a look at

    http://psyco.sourceforge.net

if you didn't already.  

> When it sees
> x*y for x and y known ints it can compile an integer multiply. Python
> only sees x*y and without the type information it is forced to do type
> lookup at run time.

Psyco will optimize this in common cases to a single machine
code instruction.  Furthermore it might completly sum up compuations
with constants.  But Psyco doesn't have any specializing optimizer. 
This is all a result of how PSYCO works.  

The more of the interpreter is written in python the more it 
can optimize.  That's because it can't really do much
about compiled machine code (C-extensions, C-core).

OM'ly 

    holger



From johnfabel at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 27 02:28:46 2002
From: johnfabel at btinternet.com (John Abel)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:28:46 +0000
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
In-Reply-To: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com>
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com> <slrnatvd5o.tjt.grante@localhost.localdomain> <slrnau0b6e.ugj.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3DE4742E.2010007@btinternet.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

>In article <slrnatvd5o.tjt.grante at localhost.localdomain>, Grant Edwards wrote:
>  
>
>>In article <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5 at posting.google.com>, smartcardware.com wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I've heard that Python is a great scripting language with one downfall for
>>>game designers/programmers.  That is that you must embed your code into
>>>Python, instead of convensional scripting langauges where you embed the
>>>scripting language into your code.
>>>      
>>>
>>Not true.
>>    
>>
>
>BTW, I believe that there are already games on the market that use Python as
>a scripting langauge, aren't there?
>
>  
>
There are indeed games that use Python.  Freedom Force from Irrational 
Games uses Python 1.5 to script AI, and missions.  In their case, Python 
has been emedded into the NetImmerse engine from NDL.

Regards

John




From trevorperrin at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 19 04:38:53 2002
From: trevorperrin at hotmail.com (Trevor)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 01:38:53 -0800
Subject: zero-copy array slicing
Message-ID: <e5e6d03.0211190138.e7cfc0e@posting.google.com>

Is a zero-copy array slicing operation possible?  Or would having two
arrays share the same elements cause too many problems?  I'm thinking
something like:

>>> a1 = array('b', [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5])
>>> a2 = a1.subsequence(slice(1, 4))
>>> a2
array('b', [1, 2, 3])
>>> a2[0] = 100
>>> a1
array('b', [0, 100, 2, 3, 4, 5])


Trevor


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov 12 08:37:01 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 14:37:01 +0100
Subject: __unicode__ vs. __str__: not quite parallel?
References: <f5by980163z.fsf@erasmus.inf.ed.ac.uk> <j4wunk9fcu.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <f5bbs4v16hh.fsf@erasmus.inf.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m365v2vria.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

ht at cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Henry S. Thompson) writes:

> Sorry I wasn't clearer, but I did say 'print', not 'write', and if
> you use print your example works fine:

[You also say "stream", which is a term that is not used often to
denote "file-like objects", so it was not expecting to interpret your
terminology literally.]

In any case, how would you expect this to work? If a thing is being
printed (i.e. as if being passed to a print statement), how should
print perform this processing?

Currently, it looks
1. whether it already is a string, and, if not,
2. whether it has an __str__, and, if not,
3. whether it has an __repr__.

In all cases, it ends up with a string, which it passes to the file's
.write method.

At what point would expect __unicode__ to come into play? I.e. how is
the print implementation supposed to know whether .write will accept
Unicode? And, if both __repr__ and __unicode__ are supported, would it
be better to invoke __unicode__ and get an exception, or would it be
better to invoke __repr__ and print the resulting string?

Regards,
Martin



From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Nov 18 03:57:52 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:57:52 -0800
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <20021117221910.A3360@phy.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <001e01c28ee0$93ddf290$21795418@dell1700>

Michael Stenner wrote:
> I feel like we're going around in circles here.  I'm talking about
> python.  It looks like 'inline' would produce serious speedups in some
> cases.  Therefore, it looks like an inline command would not be
> useless.

Doing this would be almost impossible because Python name binding is
done at runtime. For example, how would you compile this?

if random.choice([0, 1]):
    from foo import baz # baz is an inline function
else:
    from bar import baz # baz is an inline function


def my_func():
    baz()

Or this?

inline def foo():
    ....

inline def bar():
    ....

def my_func()
    foo()
    globals['foo'] = bar
    foo()


Or this?

from bar import baz # baz is an inline function

def my_func()
    ....
    return baz # the fact that baz is inline isn't known at compile time

Not that an inline keyword should be added to the language even if it
were possible...

Cheers,
Brian




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sat Nov 16 02:02:25 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:02:25 -0800
Subject: LCS algorithm
References: <3DCD1A12.4070809@nospam.net> <slrnatbqmn.f8e.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <eppstein-5708D4.23022515112002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <slrnatbqmn.f8e.mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no>,
 mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) wrote:

> In article <3DCD1A12.4070809 at nospam.net>, Drazen Gemic wrote:
> >Is there an implementation of Largest Common Sequence algorithm
> >in Python ? I am particulary interested in implementation that
> >works for character strings.
> 
> Here is an implementation of Levenshtein distance (edit distance):
> 
> http://hetland.org/python/distance.py
> 
> The two are very similar.

Here's one I coded up the last time I covered this in my algorithms 
class:

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/161/python/lcs.py

It works for string input but the output is a list, you'd have to 
convert it back to a string by ''.join(...)

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov  9 02:18:37 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 08:18:37 +0100
Subject: Using bsddb with Berkeley DB 3.3
References: <5361ecc1.0211081952.6158b00c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m37kfnmcs2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

idoerg at burnham.org (Iddo) writes:

> I am using the Python2.2 bsddb interface with a BerkeleyDB 3.3.11, on
> Linux RH7.3
[...]
> 1) Is this really bad?

I can't see a problem with that.

> 2) My databases seem to be terribly large. For example, I converted a
> 2.6GB hashdb (created with Python too) to BTree, and it blew up to
> ~10GB. Is it the old interface? Something else? Where to I start
> checking?

It is likely not the old interface. The old interface is just a thin
wrapper around the complete Sleepycat interface; the newer packages
expose more of the API functions of Sleepycat DB. If you don't need
any of the other API functions, using the old interface is fine.

I cannot answer the question why the size of the database grows; you
may want to ask on a Sleepycat mailing list. Perhaps it is possible to
tune a database in certain parameters, and it may be possible to do so
only through API (i.e. not through command line utilities); in this
case, you'ld need pybsddb3.

Regards,
Martin


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov 12 02:49:00 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 02:49:00 -0500
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <ut0b0oolk66sfb@news.supernews.com> <m3bs4vmefm.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <__idnWOqXpSZL02gXTWc3A@comcast.com>

"Paul Rudin" <paul.rudin at ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:m3bs4vmefm.fsf at localhost.localdomain...
> >>>>> "John" == John Roth <johnroth at ameritech.net> writes:
>
>
>  John> The 'and' 'or' hack is the cannonical way of doing this. It
>  John> short circuits properly, and it returns the value of the
>  John> expression that was evaluated.
>
> But it doesn't always short circuit properly, does it?  x and y or
z,
> will evaluate both of y and z in some circumstances.

Only if y evaluates as False.  If that is a possibility, one must
elaborate above as
(x and (y,) or (z,))[0]
(False,) is tuple with one element and not empty and therefore not
null.
In many practical situations, this is demonstrably not needed.

Terry J. Reedy




From kemu at sdf-eu.org  Thu Nov 28 11:07:29 2002
From: kemu at sdf-eu.org (Jonas Geiregat)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:07:29 +0100
Subject: python path
In-Reply-To: <3de63380$0$86565$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
References: <3de63380$0$86565$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <pan.2002.11.28.15.46.16.727073@imperialviolet.org>
Message-ID: <3de63ee0$0$86551$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

Adam Langley wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:18:56 +0100, Jonas Geiregat wrote:
>
>
> >on linux
> >how can add new path's to my sys.path var not with append cause when the
> >programme closes or interpreter it changes again ?
> >so save it somewhere ?
>
>
> set $PYTHONPATH in your shell rc file (e.g. ~/.bashrc)
>
don't get it here is how my bashrc file looks like

# .bashrc

# User specific aliases and functions
$PYTHONPATH = /usr/lib/wxPython
# Source global definitions
if [ -f /etc/bashrc ]; then
. /etc/bashrc
fi



From stevena at neosynapse.net  Thu Nov  7 00:26:59 2002
From: stevena at neosynapse.net (Steven D. Arnold)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 00:26:59 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <slrnasiudo.2ku.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <B9EF63D3.6CD5%stevena@neosynapse.net>

On 11/6/02 3:21 PM, "A.M. Kuchling" <akuchlin at ute.mems-exchange.org> wrote:

> In article <mailman.1036579568.14685.python-list at python.org>,
> Carel Fellinger wrote:
>> Ofcourse for parrot this isn't a show stopper per see, as parrot
>> doesn't have to translate into each of the supported languages, it
>> just has to understand them.  But still, parrot will have to support
>> all the dark corners of all supported languages, quite a mess me thinks.
> 
> Parrot will still have an NxM problem with datatypes.  Parrot supports
> datatypes through PMCs, which are basically arrays of C functions
> equivalent to PyObject, so you'd have a PerlInt, PerlString,
> PythonInt, PythonString, etc.  Different PMCs would have different
> results for various operations, so PerlInt 1 + PerlString "2" == 3,
> while PythonInt 1 + PythonString "2" raises TypeError.

There may be difficulties like the ones you bring up, but my feeling is the
Parrot people ought to go for solving the easy 90 percent of the problem,
even if it means that little code from any language will work out of the box
(except perhaps perl6; it is their baby, after all).  Another approach is to
get great interoperability with the top three or four languages, like Perl6,
Python and Ruby, and do the rest later if there is interest.  IMO, if
authors have to rewrite a few percent of their code to interoperate with
Parrot, and the benefit is we can start using it in a year instead of three,
that's a deal I'd take any day of the week.  Perfectionism is the enemy of a
project like Parrot.

It seems to me that there should be little problem getting Python or any
other language to function well in Parrot, especially if the Parrot people
try to make this easy as I imagine they would.  Indeed, it should be no more
difficult than getting the same languages to work in machine language, which
has obviously been done.

The problem arises when the APIs that are used to facilitate communications
between Parrot programs do not support semantics in a given language.  Here
we have the hard problem of choosing between great flexibility and great
performance.  It seems like an ideally-written Parrot would give each
program the ability to define its own semantics, and then other programs
could choose to be compatible or not.  For example, my program could conform
with protocol X, and if you support protocol X, you can use my program, call
its functions etc.  You and I both know what to expect.  The key with Parrot
is that it must expect the unexpected -- it doesn't know what people will
want to do with it in the future and so it should try to avoid arbitrary
limits.

With that done, the languages will have to evolve some to work with Parrot.
For example, Python will need to have a way to understand that it is calling
a function or creating an object that uses Perl6 semantics and it will need
to not expect that object to behave exactly as would a Python object.
Languages could also try to provide a protocol bridge so that an object
using Perl6 semantics looks and feels just like a Python-compliant object,
but again IMO the Parrot people should narrow their focus and let other
people do this.

Note that I have never written a compiler and I'm therefore substantially
less knowledgeable about this issue than many on this list.  Corrections, as
always, are welcome.

steve
-- 





From chris.johnson at netiq.com  Tue Nov 12 18:53:35 2002
From: chris.johnson at netiq.com (Chris Johnson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:53:35 -0600
Subject: windows api message
Message-ID: <EED6D1F25DC682489F78DAAF2834C5E70B45F062@houexch01.netiq.local>

I am interested in building a tool for automating gui testing.

I havent seen any gnu products for doing so on win32. Or even much on linux.
Maybe expect might have something.

I interested in this for win32. I love segue silk but want something free.
So i may have to write it or addapt something else.

So I have heard some people say its gonna be based on win32 api messaging.

Ok. can anyone pount me in a direction to learn how i can get this
messageing via python. i have the book python win32 programminng , i have
looked at the com examples.

But do not know if you can call api messaging stuff.

Need a clue. thanks guys.

Chris Johnson
713-996-1619
QE 
NetIQ




From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Tue Nov 26 02:19:46 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:19:46 -0800
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
In-Reply-To: <20021126043142.4323.25612.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021126043142.4323.25612.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18Ga30-0004XL-00@gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Monday 25 November 2002 08:31 pm,  Grant Edwards wrote:
> In article <sss5uus0o18jtdi2lcpp3605vfgscmvmum at 4ax.com>, Courageous wrote:
> >?Lambda is an abortion, imo. It should be deprecated, and eventually
> >?removed from the language. It doesn't do what it set out to do 
particularly
> >?well, and suffers from the double sin of being a construct that is
> >?inherently anti-pythonic. The subset of list comprehensions that can
> >?be used to do what map/reduce-lambda do are an example of something
> >?that does what it was intended, is clear, and pythonic.

map(), filter(), and reduce() do not represent all of the uses for filter,
and thus, they can't all be replaced by list comps (BTW, I never used
reduce, never understood what it was good for, and don't immediately
see how it can be done using list-comps -- would be genuinely interested
in seeing a couple of example if anyone's willing). 

So I think lambda still has a place, though I wouldn't want to increase
its capabilities (such as making non-expression functions possible).

> I find lambda quite useful for creating simple anonymous functions to pass
> to GUIs as button commands and the like. ?I suppose the same effect could be
> obtained by adding a couple more lines to define a temporarily-named
> function, but then I'd have to think up a name. ?I've been known to waste
> hours trying to come up with names for new computers. I'm not quite so
> indecisive about functions, but it does seem to be one of my weak points.

Agreed -- the general pattern of passing functions as first-class objects
is supported by providing the simplicity of lambda for the degenerate
case, just like numerical or aggregate data literals support passing 
variables (do I recall correctly that you couldn't pass literals to functions
in Pascal?  I remember being very annoyed by that, coming from 
Fortran).

As for the pain of thinking up a name -- I think it's actually a good
sign. It shows you care.  Good names are a real benefit to your own
future self and to anyone else who must read your code. Though they
weren't primarily interested in programming but in websites, I found the
book "Information Architecture" (O'Reilly), to be very influential in
my thinking about variable names and other "labels" -- which is the
term they use.  Not saying I always live up to the ideal, but it gave me
an ideal to try for. ;-D

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Nov  5 13:42:57 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 10:42:57 -0800
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com> <use8fo2je674ad@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211051042.7c0451aa@posting.google.com>

Lee Harr <missive at frontiernet.net> wrote in message news:<use8fo2je674ad at corp.supernews.com>...
> In article <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b at posting.google.com>, 
> Michele Simionato wrote:
> > Suppose I want to parse the following expression:
> > 
> >>>> exp='(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
> > 
> > I want to extract the first part, i.e. '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)'.
> > 
> 
> 
> n = 0
> for c in range(len(exp)):
>     l = exp[c]
>     if l == '(':
>         n += 1
>     elif l == ')':
>         n -= 1
>     if not n:
>         out = exp[0:c+1]
>         break
> print out

This is not the same that I did, indeed. Even if the logic is essentially the
same, you don't need to create the out list. It turns out the your approach
is 35% faster than mine, contrary to my naive expectations !

There-are-lies-damned-lies-and-benchmarks-ly yours,

                                                        Michele


From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Tue Nov 12 08:50:08 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:50:08 -0600
Subject: win32: own content-type --> start python script
References: <aqqrfq$a1m$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c28a52$bb84f740$ba01010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thomas Guettler" <zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de>


> Hi!
> 
> Does someone know how I can install
> a fileextension on win32, so that if I download
> a file with this extension in a browser
> a script at the client get's called?
>
> Of course the script needs to be installed before
> it. It is an intranet solution.
> 
> At best, this script should be called directly, without
> asking the user if he wants to download or start the
> given application with this file.

With Internet Explorer there's probably a way to do
this... after all, what you are describing is a truly
ugly security hole, and IE has lots of those.

Most likely you'll have to tamper with the Intranet
Zone security settings to get what you want.  I don't
know the specifics, though.

*shudder* Nasty business...

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net




From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Wed Nov 13 16:44:30 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:44:30 +1100
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
In-Reply-To: <20021113162837.26089.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021113162837.26089.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200211140844.31159.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 03:28, Terence Ng wrote:
> I do not really know Python.  How do you use smtplib
> to send HTML email?  I do not need to hook up to a web
> site for hits and removals.  Actually, I expect my
> prospects are expecting my email.
There is an example in the "Python Cookbook", Recipe 10.8, that shows how to 
create a HTML email, and embed a plain-text version (since at least some 
email reading programs (MUAs) are not capable of displaying HTML email, or 
are specifically configured not to).

You may also be able to find this example on ActiveState's web site.

Brad

BTW: If _any_ of your recipients are _not_ expecting your email, then what you 
are doing is spamming. Also, be sure not to send HTML email to a mailing list 
or a newsgroup gateway. Either of these will annoy many people, and do 
serious harm to your company's reputation.
- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE90se/W6pHgIdAuOMRAj9EAKCCWuc2/uGJeCFvm5dyE3Zzu4A3CgCeIOU5
oLrab2GQ0Tfpg4whKh5yaGw=
=00cW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From member at dbforums.com  Wed Nov 13 08:48:19 2002
From: member at dbforums.com (bandekap)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:48:19 +0000
Subject: Unicode in JSP
References: <2041930.1037194073@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <2041935.1037195299@dbforums.com>

Sorry Again. Same mistake:
This browser also showing oracle data in japanese.
Actually database contain value as
&_#_1_2_3_7_3_;_&_#_1_2_3_8_4_;_&_#_1_2_4_3_1_;

Please remove _ before reading. If I write above data without _, then it
shows japanese characters. So I am writing in _.

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Nov  6 21:46:08 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 02:46:08 +0000
Subject: question on select
References: <lohjsuc5n97g8guh7jht4e8b4t909rdgeq@4ax.com> <slrnasjhql.154.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <nrkjsu8q0tb58i0c9fvk7l2engvmpe5npl@4ax.com>

On 7 Nov 2002 01:56:39 GMT, Gerhard H?ring
<gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote:

>In article <lohjsuc5n97g8guh7jht4e8b4t909rdgeq at 4ax.com>, Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I know that select does not work on file objects in the Windows
>> platform. But does select work on sys.stdin? On the Windows platform,
>> that is.
>
>Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import sys
>>>> type(sys.stdin)
><type 'file'>
>>>> sys.stdin.fileno()
>0
>>>>
>
>Does that answer your question? ;-)
>
>stdin/stdout/stderr *are* file objects.

It does :-) When I read the docs I somehow got the impression that
although stdin were file objects they were still
good-for-selecting-on-windows. Just checking my impression was wrong.

Thanks, with my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru  Tue Nov 26 12:26:40 2002
From: zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru (Lexy Zhitenev)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:26:40 +0300
Subject: Database Programming
References: <3875fcac.0211260752.60e2e457@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <as0asg$90a$1@serv.vrn.ru>

"Otis Belton" <obelton at yahoo.com> wrote:
news:3875fcac.0211260752.60e2e457 at posting.google.com...
> Has anyone used Python to develop a commercial quality database
> program? What is the advantage of using Python vs a program like
> Foxpro. Any advise is appreciated.

You can't make use of database widgets in Python, unless you use a
third-party library for it.

But Python is fun, so you can derive some classes from usual widgets that
will be data aware.

Unfortunately, you'll definitely need a third-party library for just being
able to make use of DB. Then you can write some classes to wrap around this
library, tune them for your needs and use it just like any other Python
program.

I am writing a DB Application in Python. It connects to a remote database
server. Everything related to database is kept in one module. I write
interface and just use the capabilities of my module.
This approach has an advantage of independence of DBMS used. You can simply
use another db.py (for example) and leave everything as it is in the
program.

Good Luck!




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 28 14:58:31 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:58:31 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE040DF.EACC7D3A@kolumbus.fi> <yfsbs4ebhnl.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE2AEFE.BF188406@kolumbus.fi> <3DE2B626.6000009@nyc.rr.com> <uu7nuvsbgno1c7@news.supernews.com> <mailman.1038438422.29267.python-list@python.org> <3DE57D7B.D4A80CE8@alcyone.com> <mailman.1038507764.1441.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2QOdneEtJvDR6HugXTWcqw@comcast.com>

"holger > But who would use yield as an identifier name, anyway?

Someone writing a program to calculate bond yields, for instance.
TJR




From alessandro.bottoni at infinito.it  Sat Nov  2 03:35:46 2002
From: alessandro.bottoni at infinito.it (Alessandro Bottoni)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 09:35:46 +0100
Subject: Python rulez
In-Reply-To: <f416su46uo81acogmrjt3peg1bkonleffo@4ax.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210251016050.18065-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru> <dJjw9.57511$aL4.1753668@news1.tin.it> <f416su46uo81acogmrjt3peg1bkonleffo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200211020827.gA28RuO20251@mail2.infinito.it>

Alle 23:56, venerd? 1 novembre 2002, Carl Caulkett ha scritto:
> On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 00:16:09 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>
>
> wrote:
> >Alessandro's been around a while too, on and off - he's the
> >guy whose gentle cajoling finally convinced me to give Python
> >a try, back when we were colleagues (so finally y'all know
> >who to blame...:-).
>
> So, how big a cut of the royalties from the Nutshell book will
> Alessandro get?
>

I just bothered Alex long enough to force him to study Python. Not a 
hard work, given the intellectual habits of Alex: he is looking around 
for new and interesting ideas all the time. Python almost made the work by 
itself.

At the moment, I'm looking for people interested in advocating and supporting 
GNU Enterprise (http://www.gnuenterprise.org) and the technologies that it 
uses (wxWindows, wxPython and so on) so...  you have been warned ... ;-)

---------------------
Alessandro Bottoni




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov 28 15:32:18 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 20:32:18 GMT
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038409397.2506.python-list@python.org> <3DE59E73.4040908@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <as5ugi$a48$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:41:23 +1300, Greg Ewing <see_reply_address at something.invalid> wrote:

>Mikael Olofsson wrote:
>
>>   Is there an obvous way to have f (still defined in A) manipulate
>>   objects in B when executed in B?
>
>
>Don't know whether it counts as "obvious", but I
>think there is a way (short of using exec):
>
>   import new
>   g = new.function(f.func_code, B.__dict__)
>
>This creates a new function g which has the
>same code as f but a different global namespace.
>
>(You can't just change f.func_globals directly
>because it's a read-only attribute, unfortunately.)
>
This kind of stuff raises questions in my mind as to what
will be guaranteed to work forever and what may be quasi-experimental,
or depend on things that really shouldn't be locked in to become
a millstone of backwards-compatibility to inhibit Guido's freedom.

E.g., I noticed recently that you can (2.2.2) take an ordinary function and
create an instant apparent bound method of an arbitrary object:

 >>> def foo(x): print x
 ...
 >>> bar = foo.__get__('Hi via foo')
 >>> bar()
 Hi via foo
 >>> bar
 <bound method ?.foo of 'Hi via foo'>
 >>> baz = foo.__get__(123)
 >>> baz()
 123
 >>> baz
 <bound method ?.foo of 123>
 >>> baz(456)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: foo() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)

You could use this as an alternative to the default-argument hack, but how
locked in is this feature? What should be the advice for/against using it
vs e.g. a plain vanilla class with a __call__ method and a place to hold the state?

BTW, IIRC you can also build a property "by hand" using __get__, but how in/advisable is that?
ISTM pretty soon we are going to need a separate book on __Python__ the meta-language ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tony at tcapp.com  Sun Nov 10 20:33:00 2002
From: tony at tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:33:00 -0800
Subject: Another question about  PythonWin 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110173251.03f05148@wheresmymailserver.com>

When I call os.system('cls') in Pythwonwin, a window opens then closes, but 
my interactive screen never gets cleared :(

If I execute the same command in IDLE, IPython, or python.exe ,the screen 
is cleared .

Why is PythonWin different in this regard ?

thanks

Tony 




From mchermside at ingdirect.com  Wed Nov  6 16:06:14 2002
From: mchermside at ingdirect.com (Chermside, Michael)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:06:14 -0500
Subject: decision tree by python
Message-ID: <902A1E710FEAB740966EC991C3A38A8903C35B07@INGDEXCHANGEC1.ingdirect.com>

> i am trying to construct a decision and classifiy a set 
> of data using GINI index.
> Is there any references? 

I'm really not quite sure what you're asking for. The phrase
"construct a decision" suggests that you're trying to build
some object... but I'm not sure what a "decision object" would
be. Alternatively, you may simply not be a native English
speaker and you simply meant you wanted to "make a decision".
That's fine, but without SOME SORT of description of WHAT
decision, it's hard to find a resource.

As for the GINI index, Google suggests you're talking about
a particular formula for analysizing income distribution.
Python is certainly suited for these sorts of calculations,
but I'm not aware of any already-written code that would
perform this calculation. However, it's probably only a few
lines of Python code (no... really!) so you can probably
write it yourself easily - IF that's really what you meant
by it.

If you'll write back with a more specific question we might
be able to be more helpful.

-- Michael Chermside




From srumbalski at prodigy.net  Tue Nov 26 15:54:02 2002
From: srumbalski at prodigy.net (Steven Rumbalski)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:54:02 GMT
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
Message-ID: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>

In python I can write:

a, b = i, j

but the following is not legal:

a, b += i, j

Is there a reason that allowing this would be bad?  Why does Python forbid 
this?

Thanks,

Steven Rumbalski


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Nov 22 03:17:06 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 03:17:06 -0500
Subject: Does Python (or psyco) already do this optimisation?
References: <mailman.1037861909.23049.python-list@python.org>        <m3n0o3uz8h.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>        <3DDC9BA9.9070309@rogers.com> <15837.1775.356901.890797@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3DDDE802.20701@rogers.com>

Thanks for the pointers Skip (and Michael and Terry), PEP 280 also 
appears to target the same problem.  The approaches are all fairly 
different, with the DLict approach being closest to what I was thinking 
of.  I'd not considered the locality-of-reference problem with tracing 
the pointers, though I would have thought that would be at worst a wash 
compared with hash-table lookups.

All-in-all, looks like wiser (and more C-savy) minds than mine are 
already on the task, so I guess I'll leave it to them.

Much appreciated all, can cross it off the list of ideas that might go 
somewhere now,
Mike

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>    Mike> Any idea (anyone) whether the outlined approach has been attempted
>    Mike> for global-variable access optimisation?  i.e. is this an explored
>    Mike> and deemed-dead path, or something new?
>
>Check PEPs 266 and 267.  I don't think it's necessarily dead-end.  It's
>proven to be a damned hard problem so far though.  Jeremy and I led a
>developer's day session on optimization at the February 2002 Python
>conference.  Jeremy's approach has come much farther than mine since then
>(as in I didn't do anything).  Check the python-dev archives for the
>February-April 2002 timeframe for more discussion on the subject.
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From nas at python.ca  Fri Nov 22 09:28:40 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 06:28:40 -0800
Subject: Needle
In-Reply-To: <slrnatqvfe.s0v.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <87u1ib6bte.fsf@key.localdomain> <3u3D9.49382$Yw.2293340@news2.tin.it> <874rabdo3t.fsf@key.localdomain> <5r6D9.50977$Yw.2347638@news2.tin.it> <Ui9D9.1536$mr2.53738@news1.west.cox.net> <slrnatqvfe.s0v.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>
Message-ID: <20021122142840.GA17304@glacier.arctrix.com>

Gareth McCaughan wrote:
> Tim Hochberg wrote:
> 
> >  The interesting thing is that as far as I know, no one has put together a
> >  module to simulate multiple dispatch. Or if they have, they haven't pushed
> >  it very hard.
> 
> http://www.sff.net/people/neelk/open-source/Multimethod.py

Neel is working on implementing a new language called Needle right now.

  http://www.nongnu.org/needle/

It's sort of a mix between ML and Dylan.

  Neil



From mwh at python.net  Fri Nov 15 06:35:24 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:35:24 GMT
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <mailman.1037224700.11546.python-list@python.org> <m3ptt9p0rw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <ar0cso$iua$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3r8doxkem.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <ar2kl9$1nd$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <7h3znsbvzkv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:

> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:07:53 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>
> wrote:
> 
> >The main reason we want you to log in is so we have some chance of
> >giving feedback.  There were too many occasions (bugs in particular)
> >where anonymous reporters were asked for more information and failed
> >to give it.
> >
> >Bug reporting and patch submission is a two way process -- knowing who
> >the other end is is a great help.
> 
> That sounds reasonable but the problem is that as the receiver of a
> donation you are not in a good bargaining position. 

But by using Python YOU are in the receiving position, too.

> Requiring identification instead of just asking for it will cause a
> lot of information to be filtered out even before its gets a chance
> to be evaluated.

It was our experience that asking for information was not sufficient.
Hence, the requirement.

> If someone submits a bug fix but you can't reproduce the bug yourself
> and the submitter is not reachable anymore you loose nothing but the
> time invested in tracking the bug.

That's too much.  Far too much.  Time is the most precious resource of
the Python developers.  Most of us give more than we have as it is.

> How much time to invest in a bug report can be determined by some
> smart automatized procedure

?  Seems unlikely.

> but this has to be done *after* receiving the bug report, not
> before.

Well, of course.  You can think of anonymous bug reports being
rejected at the first hurdle if you like.

For all of this discussion, I really don't think this is going to
change.  Python's bugs and patches might move off sf one day, but I
doubt the restrictions on anonymous bugs will be lifted.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  nonono,  while we're making wild  conjectures about the behavior
  of completely irrelevant tasks, we must not also make serious
  mistakes, or the data might suddenly become statistically valid.
                                        -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp


From rainer at cs.uu.nl  Mon Nov  4 09:09:09 2002
From: rainer at cs.uu.nl (Rainer)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 14:09:09 GMT
Subject: urllib ??
References: <9782a2ed.0211040151.db070a3@posting.google.com> <3DC64C2A.7604FB4B@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <aq5v25$kkb$1@samos.cs.uu.nl>

hi alan
this is the problem, maybe i put it the wrong way.
i DO NOT get the results from the server. the thing that is stored in 
'results', is the 'query-webpage' with the values filled in, not the results 
page.

rainer



>
>To me, this does not make sense.
>
>"Pressing of the Submit Button" only happens in browsers.
>
>What you are doing above in your code is executing the same series of
>actions as happens, behind the scenes, in a browser, when a user presses
>a submit button.
>
>You say you want to "get the result from the server". But the line of
>code
>
>results = urllib.urlopen(url,query).read()
>
>Does exactly that. It opens a URL connection, transmits query data to
>that URL, reads the results that come back, and names them with the name
>"results".
>
>Am I missing something here?
>
>regards,
>
>-- 
>alan kennedy
>-----------------------------------------------------
>check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
>email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From stibbs at nothanks.foo  Thu Nov 28 16:36:47 2002
From: stibbs at nothanks.foo (stibbs)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 21:36:47 GMT
Subject: variable not being added, help
References: <pan.2002.11.28.08.36.04.997032.60987@nothanks.foo> <as4p6u$nsjnv$1@ID-90794.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.28.21.36.44.166405.60987@nothanks.foo>

Thank you! it works fine now.


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Mon Nov 25 05:00:27 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:00:27 +0100
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <arpvi8$f9c$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <arsn14$pfi$1@news.netpower.no> <arsqf9$b0d$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <arss9v$4lt$1@news.netpower.no>

"Fernando P?rez" <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:arsqf9$b0d$1 at peabody.colorado.edu...
> David Brown wrote:
>
> > If you can find it, there is a free (!) powerpoint viewer from
Microsoft,
> > along with word and excel viewers.  They are a bit old, and may not
support
> > the latest formats - they may not even still be available.  But they are
> > very much faster than the real MS Office programs, and don't support
macro
> > viruses.
>
> Which I'm sure works wonderfully well under Linux :)

I'm sure that they would work under Wine, given the success they've had with
the real MS Office.  But in reality, the viewers would be more useful to
Windows users - many of whom are lucky enough not to have PowerPoint (and
*really* lucky ones, like me, don't have any MS Office software).

>
> > Of course, you can always use Open Office for PowerPoint files.
>
> Which I have and use when there's no other option. But as much as it's
great
> to have OO, it still takes _ages_ to load (on a very fast laptop with gobs
of
> RAM), and doesn't look on-screen quite as nice as PDF. PDF is simply an
> excellent format for the job at hand: portable distribution of documents
> which retain their original look pretty much perfectly.
>
> Fortunately I live in a world where people communicate in Latex,
PostScript
> and PDF, so I simply very rarely have to bother with Microsoft file
formats.
> And I try to keep it that way :) LyX and XEmacs are enough for pretty much
> all I do document-wise (with OpenOffice for the occasional spreadsheet).
>

OO doesn't take that long for me (W2K, 1.7GHz, 512MB) - maybe the Quickstart
thingy helps?  I'm looking forward to testing it on my home machine (once
gentoo has finished installing.....).  To be entirely honest, however, I
only ever use OO when I am forced to work with MS Office format documents.
Personally I also use LaTeX, with pdfLaTeX to make the pdf files directly -
I agree 100% that pdf is the format of choice for publication (I insist that
all office-format documents are turned into pdf's before being put out on
our website, for example).

mvh.


--
David

"I love deadlines.  I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past."
Douglas Adams

> Cheers,
>
> f.




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Fri Nov  8 08:04:03 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:04:03 +0000
Subject: newbie re question
References: <1osisu81483e4k3j905dun6diio6rt29ao@4ax.com> <sFfy9.2868$h%5.101793@newsb.telia.net> <i63jsu03dv3machun6gufu7kp95h44a3ec@4ax.com> <aqcruj$dmn$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnasl3bj.3cj.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <n6dnsuc081oq329t4fo1ul4198cqkmfe5h@4ax.com>

On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:53:19 GMT, Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 at 04:58 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:52:45 +0000, Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>> 
>>>On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:17:12 GMT, "Fredrik Lundh"
>>><fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've been trying to grok re's and settled myself a little exercise:
>>>>> concoct a re for a Python identifier.
>>>>>

[text snipped]

>
>This whole discussion is starting to remind me of a quote that I used to
>have hanging on my cubicle wall:
>
>    Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use
>    regular expressions." Now they have two problems.
>                                                       - Jamie Zawinski
>
>Are re's really what you need to use here? Correct me if I'm wrong, but
>it looks like what you're trying to do is split the string into words
>with a regexp, then apply rules about which characters may or may not be
>part of the word. For the first part of that, why not use ''.split()?
>Then search the list of words with a much simpler regexp:
>
>>>> import re
>>>> pattern = re.compile(r'^[a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z_\.]*$')
>>>> list_to_search = 'aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk'.split()
>>>> list_to_search
>['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'ad:aa', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'a@', 'aa', '_aa', '_aafr@', 'aa_aa', 'aa__a?jk']
>>>> result_list = [item for item in list_to_search if pattern.match(item)]
>>>> result_list
>['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'aa', '_aa', 'aa_aa']
>
>(My apologies for the more-than-80-chars lines here).
>
>My rule of thumb: if a regular expression takes more than ten seconds to
>grok *in its entirety*, it's too complicated, and another solution
>should be sought. Now sometimes there won't be an elegant solution and
>you wind up having to use a complicated regexp, but usually just trying
>to think about other solutions will help clarify the problem in your
>mind.
>
>BTW, the Jamie Zawinski quote above came from a Slashdot discussion:
>
>    http://slashdot.org/articles/99/06/01/2122209.shtml
>
>Scroll up about one or two pages from the bottom of the article to find
>the post in which that quote appears.

The first sentence in my first post starting the thread reads (and sorry
for quoting myself)

>>>>> I've been trying to grok re's and settled myself a little exercise:
>>>>> concoct a re for a Python identifier.

I'm not trying to solve any particular problem, just trying to get he
hang of re's - which I will *need* further down the road.

Anyway, thanks for the remainder. This re business is very tricky and I
will probably end up, for the specific problems I have to solve, with a
mixed approach, applying re's only to the most specific and
easily-describable patterns.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From tundra at tundraware.com  Mon Nov 25 21:00:07 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 02:00:07 GMT
Subject: Tkinter: activate method on listbox question
Message-ID: <p2kura.tk41.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

I have a listbox defined which displays a directory listing.  The listbox is
initialized in EXTENDED mode.  I have '<Double-ButtonRelease-1>' bound to
a routine which figures out which file names the user has selected and
proceeds to do something about it.

So far, so good - it works.  However, say the user double-clicks on another
directory somewhere down the listbox.  The routine which moves to the new
directory does its thing (erases the listbox and loads it with that new
directory's content) and (here's the key part) does this:

             UI.DirList.select_set(('0',))
             UI.DirList.activate(0)

That is, I want both the selection and the activation to be initialized
to the first item in the new directory listing.

Here's the problem.  The selection is indeed set to the first item, BUT,
somehow, the activation is getting reset to the previous value (i.e. - the
value it had when the new directory was selected.)  For example, suppose
we have this directory layout:

                     /
                       foo/
                       bar/
                            bar1
                            bar2
                       baz/

If I double-click on bar/, the listbox is properly reloaded with this:

                      ../
                      bar1
                      bar2

And ../ is selected as I would expect.  However, *bar2* has the activation
which is the same index in this directory, as bar had in the previous directory.

As near as I can tell, this is some sort of Tk madness that is setting the activation
to its last value *after* I have set it to 0.

Ideas?
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From stuart at bmsi.com  Wed Nov 13 20:52:47 2002
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 01:52:47 GMT
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037224998.20363.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PlDA9.3786$uJ.159628@news2.east.cox.net>

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:02:18 -0500, Cameron Horn wrote:

>> def nullgen():
>>    raise StopIteration
>>    yield "never called"

Yuck.  How about a built-in null generator that can be assigned to any
desired name?  It's not like the implementation needs to be customized or
anything :-)

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.


From xz9262 at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 18 15:51:10 2002
From: xz9262 at hotmail.com (Xiang Zhang)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:51:10 -0600
Subject: Multiple instances
Message-ID: <F79pxVUcRSFfCE0CLAc0000b8e6@hotmail.com>

I would like to run multiple instances of the same Python script 
simultaneously. Does Python support such use?

Thanks in advance.

Xiang


_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus




From ebe at offworld.com  Fri Nov  8 06:55:29 2002
From: ebe at offworld.com (ebe)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:55:29 -0000
Subject: Help! Wrapping Win32 code with SWIG - or am I barking up the wrong tree!
Message-ID: <gDNy9.932$Dl2.61256@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>

Hello,

I have written a game engine in C++ that I want to control at a high level
from python. Effectively Python will be used to construct the game logic
while the C++ engine handles all the low level performance critical stuff.

I have a problem however, and I've yet to find ANY docs on this at all. I am
attemping to wrap my C++ engine using SWIG, but I have win32 code which
creates a main window and gets a device context to enable open gl to draw
into it. How on earth do I wrap win32 api code using SWIG?

I've seen that Python has win32 extensions, and I could use these to create
a main window and get a device context, but how would  my C++ engine get
access to these? Can C++ extensions have access to Python variables?

Which is the best way of proceeding?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks!




From missive at frontiernet.net  Wed Nov  6 19:28:32 2002
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 00:28:32 -0000
Subject: Zope CMF problem
References: <4c0586a2.0211061214.2bb684dd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <usjctgd8eadb1c@corp.supernews.com>

In article <4c0586a2.0211061214.2bb684dd at posting.google.com>, 
rcandersonmn wrote:
> We have setup a new Zope/CMF site with hopes of testing the
> capabilities of CMF.  We are having trouble logging into user-accounts
> setup with the role of reviewer.  After entering user name, password,
> and hitting submit - the screen redirects back to the login screen
> with no error statement about bad user name or password.
> 
> This seems to be a problem out of the box.  
> 
> Any advice would be welcomed.
> 

Join the zope mailing list: zope at zope.org

http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope



From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Fri Nov 15 15:15:53 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:15:53 GMT
Subject: Open and reading a file...
References: <clUA9.14453$md7.1204247@news20.bellglobal.com> <slrnat8a11.rng.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <g178tu0ml23tjvu7rlkqr3emp34d8hbgpq@4ax.com> <mailman.1037316443.32674.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57latu44nf8qn08af8an2jkn1ck666nqg7@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:25:50 -0600, John Hunter
<jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>>>>>> "Manuel" == Manuel M Garcia <mgarcia at cole-switches.com> writes:
>
>    Manuel> Now I feel ashamed for being a smartass.
>
>Good.  Now go read 10 posts on comp.lang.c++ and write 3 perl
>scripts before coming back out to play.
>
>John Hunter

I nominate Robin Munn for a Python good citizen award!

Does it have to be 3 perl scrips?  Can I write 2 perl scripts and cut
off a finger instead?

Manuel


From claird at lairds.com  Wed Nov  6 18:52:00 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:52:00 -0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <usjap08oved667@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3DC943CF.84A68F32 at san.rr.com>, Darren New  <dnew at san.rr.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>As long as you don't want to do development in multiple languages or
>dynamically load code safely over the net into some other OS process,
>Tcl and Python are pretty good choices. Otherwise, you might want to
>consider C# or Java. 
			.
			.
			.
Actually, many of the early experiments in "agenting"--safe
evaluation of network-loaded code--were done with Tcl.  This
was before Java acquired the name it now has.  It's possible
to make an argument that the Tcl security model, which is
quite distinct from Java's, is safer.

But you were around for this, weren't you, Darren?
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Nov 11 12:38:09 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 18:38:09 +0100
Subject: __unicode__ vs. __str__: not quite parallel?
References: <f5by980163z.fsf@erasmus.inf.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <j4wunk9fcu.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

ht at cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Henry S. Thompson) writes:

> If you print an object to a normal stream, and object's class has a
>  __str__ method, what appears is the result of the __str__ method.

What is "a normal stream"?

>>> f=open("/tmp/bla","w")
>>> class X:
...   def __str__(self):
...     print "STR"
...     return "str"
... 
>>> x=X()
>>> str(x)
STR
'str'
>>> f.write(x)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: argument 1 must be string or read-only character buffer, not instance

So it is not at all common that you can write arbitrary things into a
byte stream.

> I've searched the archives but found no joy for this one -- any help
> out there?

I can't offer help, but I will instead ask for help.

This looks like a bug. PyUnicode_FromObject does not consider invoking
__unicode__, but I think it should. In fact, I cannot understand why
PyObject_Unicode and PyUnicode_FromObject are different functions.
There is already a comment in this function suggesting that.

So please either submit a bug report, or, better yet, a patch (I
*will* forget about this if there is no reminder on SF).

In return, I can offer a work-around: When you lookup a stream writer,
don't use that directly. Instead, do

 basewriter = codecs.get_writer(encodingname)
 class writer(basewriter):
   def write(self, data):
     data = unicode(data)
     return self.__bases__[0].write(data)

Regards,
Martin


From skoerber at dccnet.com  Thu Nov 28 00:34:34 2002
From: skoerber at dccnet.com (Shaun Koerber)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:34:34 -0800
Subject: a simple question about class composition
References: <mailman.1038445791.28128.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uubandite0as47@corp.supernews.com>

Hi David,

I tried this code out on windows xp and it seemed to work fine.  I'm using
python 2.2.2 mind you, so you *might* just need an upgrade.  However, it
also occurred to me that a different myclass.py may be defined in a
different directory of sys.path.  I've just begun learning python a couple
months ago, and I experienced this phenomena with 2 "test.py" scripts.
Needless to say, the one I *didn't* want to test was imported.  Anyway, hope
that some of this helps.

Shaun.

"David Schonberger" <schond at eecs.ku.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1038445791.28128.python-list at python.org...
> I have the following two class definitions in a file called myclass.py:
>
> ###begin###
>
> class MyClass:
>     def __init__(self, txt):
>         self.text = txt
>     def printText(self):
>         print "Text for MyClass " + str(self.text) + "\n"
>
> class MyOtherClass:
>     def __init__(self,txt):
>         self.text = txt
>     def printText2(self):
>         print "Twice the text for MyOtherClass " + str(2*self.text) + "\n"
>
> ###end###
>
> I then have the following code in a file called mycontainerclass.py:
>
> ###begin###
>
> from myclass import *
>
> class MyContainerClass:
>     def __init__(self, txt):
>         self.text = txt
>         self.one = MyClass(" I like Vanilla Coke")
>         self.two = MyOtherClass("I like Classic Coke")
>
>
>     def printContainerText(self):
>         print "Container class text " + str(self.text) + "\n"
>
>     def invokePrint(self):
>         self.one.printText()
>         self.two.printText2()
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    myobj = MyContainerClass("I like both Vanilla Coke and Classic Coke")
>    myobj.invokePrint()
>    myobj.printContainerText()
>
> ###end###
>
> When I try to run this code for MyContainerClass I get the following
> error:
>
> ###begin###
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:/Python22/mycontainerclass.py", line 18, in ?
>     myobj = MyContainerClass("I like both Vanilla Coke and Classic Coke")
>   File "C:/Python22/mycontainerclass.py", line 7, in __init__
>     self.two = MyOtherClass("I like Classic Coke")
> NameError: global name 'MyOtherClass' is not defined
>
> ###end###
>
> Any idea what is happening? I came across similar code in Lutz's "Learning
> Python" (a good three years old; perhaps this is part of the problem). I
> am running Python 2.2.1 on Win2K but have run into the same problem on
> Linux. Note that if I comment out the stuff about MyOtherClass in
> MyContainerClass--i.e. the stuff having to do with self.two--everything
> works fine, with MyClass successfully embeded in MyContainerClass. Any
> help would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
> Regards,
> David
>
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> * David Schonberger                                         *
> * Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science *
> * University of Kansas                                      *
> * email: schond at eecs.ukans.edu                              *
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>
>




From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Wed Nov 27 18:16:33 2002
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 23:16:33 GMT
Subject: using com object written in python from iis/asp
References: <as2qk2$s28ig$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <QEbF9.20627$hg1.57756@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <as3joh$s2uni$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote:
> Uwe Schmitt wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I wrote a python script for the implementation of a
>> com server. If I use a python script as client, everything
>> is o.k. But if I try to contact the com object from an ASP 
>> script, I get:
>> 
>>    Python COM Server Internal Error- Fehler '80004002' 
>> 
>>    Unexpected Python Error: exceptions.ImportError: No module named com_planefit 
>> 

> If com_planefit.py is on a network path, this could be your problem. 
> COM objects run by IIS are run under the LocalSystem user, not your 
> current user.  This is almost always the underlying reason for such 
> problems.

Yes, you're right, it's on a network path. I'll try it tomorow.

Greetings, Uwe.


-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt      Computer science is no more about Computers,
uwe.schmitt at num.uni-sb.de      than astronomy is about telescopes. (Dijkstra)
http://www.procoders.net           


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Nov 10 04:24:45 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:24:45 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
		<ff133276.0211091535.47871cf2@posting.google.com>
		<aqkdoq$db6$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> 
		<200211092320.20597.shalehperry@attbi.com> <mailman.1036917434.26935.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DCE25DD.3266611B@alcyone.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:

> On Sun, 2002-11-10 at 01:20, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
>
> > What always bothers me though is the quote syntax.  '(this text) is
> > different
> > from (this text).  I find that when reading code it is very, very
> > easy to
> > miss that silly quote.  Sure you just learn to look for it but it is
> > still
> > what irks me most.
	...
> Logo (the teaching language, famous for its turtles) is very much
> Lisp,
> but with some small changes that makes the syntax much simpler.

It's fair to point out at this point that Logo does have quoting on
words (the Logo equivalent of Lisp words), but with double quotes
instead of single quotes.  (Logo lists don't get quoted in this way,
however.)

Your overall point is valid, though.  Logo is actually a Lisp derivative
that is cleverly disguised.  The turtle graphics portion of the Logo is
the most widely known feature, but actually within the language it is
almost an afterthought; Logo (Greek for _word_) was originally designed
to manipulate English sentences, which is why the list-forming
construct, for instance, is called SENTENCE.

> The other detail is that quoted lists use [], so:
>
>   REPEAT 100 [FORWARD 100 RIGHT 90]
> 
> is actually calling the function REPEAT (not a special form) ...

And, in fact, TO (the procedure which creates new procedures) is the
only special form in Logo.

> Anyway, I think it's a novel solution to the parenthesis problem.

I have seen variants of Lisp -- at least notational variants -- that do
a similar thing by eliminating "unambiguous" parentheses.  In Lisp
proper, I found this really irritating, because it put the onus on me to
do the parsing.  In Logo it makes sense, but in Lisp itself I don't
think it does.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Will I disappoint my future / If I stay
\__/ Sade
    The laws list / http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/laws/
 Laws, rules, principles, effects, paradoxes, etc. in physics.


From berkowit at silcom.com  Fri Nov 29 14:46:55 2002
From: berkowit at silcom.com (Paul Berkowitz)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:46:55 -0800
Subject: Can't find user module despite setting PYTHONPATH
Message-ID: <BA0D042F.27479%berkowit@silcom.com>

I apologize if this is a standard dummy newbie question. So far I haven't
come upon the answer here.

I'm beginning Python, but this is not my first scripting language. Having
read the excellent online tutorial, I'm now working my way through the also
excellent "Learning Python" published by O'Reilly. I'm using Mac OS 10.2.2
which comes with Python 2.2. My shell in the Terminal app is tcsh. (I'm
brand new to Unix altogether, like other Mac users who have switched to OS
X.)

OK. None of my books explains exactly how to set PYTHONPATH in tcsh, but I
think I've worked it out. I want to include the pre-packaged modules, which
mostly seem to be in /usr/lib/python2.2/, and my own directory where I store
Python files and modules, ~/Library/Scripts/Python/. So I did this in tcsh:

setenv PYTHONPATH 
.:/usr/lib/python2.2/:/Users/berkowit/Library/Scripts/Python/:/usr/lib/pytho
n2.2/plat-darwin/ # all one line


It worked, and printenv PYTHONPATH  echoes the same thing back.

I quit and relaunched the Python Interactive interpreter, and now I no
longer get a SyntaxError when I call a simple module I saved in my
~/Library/Scripts/Python/ directory. Instead I get: an ImportError:

>>> import module1.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named module1.py


But that's not true. It's there - I can see it. I purposely haven't prefixed
a shebang line to the file, because I'm trying to see how it imports
modules, not runs scripts. Do I need to? The file script is simply:

print 'Hello module world!'

What am I doing wrong?





-- 
Paul Berkowitz



From costanza at web.de  Sun Nov 24 17:08:00 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:08:00 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <armc2c$ggu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <armhnl$eci$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <arrijv$kap$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Donn Cave wrote:
> Quoth Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de>:
> ...
> | Just recently I have encountered some useful terminological distinctions 
> | in c.l.l that made sense to me. There you have the imperative and 
> | message-passing paradigms on the one hand, and the procedural and 
> | object-oriented style on the other hand. The interesting bit is that 
> | these things are independent. So procedural style is well-suited for the 
> | imperative paradigm and object-oriented is well-suited for the 
> | message-passing paradigm. However, you can also do message-passing in a 
> | purely procedural languages as well as use the imperative style in most 
> | object-oriented languages. I guess that you are thinking along these 
> | lines as well.
> 
> Perhaps I could be, if message passing were clearer to me!

Message passing means that there are several entities that communicate 
by sending messages between them. The main points are that these 
entities are autonomous and that there is no central "main" program that 
controls the behavior of these entitities.

What people usually mean when they say "object-oriented" are things like 
classes, inheritance, overriding, encapsulation, and so on. But these 
features don't guarantee that you have the above mental model in mind. 
(So for example, with overriding you can make sure that a certain set of 
objects respond to certain message in their specific way. It's not clear 
from a message alone what will happen when you send it to a particular 
object; objects are autonomous. However, you can make use of overriding 
even in programs that are essentially imperative.)


> It can be much harder to get something done in pure FP, at least
> that's true for me.  Now, this is obviously because I ``think in
> Python'', or rather I think in procedural terms, and someone who
> ``thinks in Haskell'' will have less trouble.

I have my doubts. When a Haskell program doesn't behave as expected you 
have to know what goes on behind the scenes - you have to know which 
expressions get evaluated at what stage, in which order statements are 
executed, and so on, in order to understand the program's behavior. 
However, languages like Haskell deliberately try to hide these things. 
In contrast, imperative and object-oriented languages make it easy to 
understand what happens when. That's what I mean when I am talking about 
"simpler operational model". (Declarative languages also have 
operational models, you can't do without.)


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From trilok.agarwal at oracle.com  Fri Nov  1 19:48:00 2002
From: trilok.agarwal at oracle.com (tagarwal)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:48:00 -0800
Subject: map network drive
Message-ID: <mfFw9.10$%f4.172@news.oracle.com>

How could i map network drives using python scripts,




From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 29 09:57:43 2002
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:57:43 +0000
Subject: please help
Message-ID: <F243080Gxw8Zw5V6Qcq00003645@hotmail.com>

<Problem description snipped>
Ok, a couple of points for next time:

   1. Please Please Please try and make sure your code in your email has the 
correct indentation. In a language such as Python, where whitespace matters, 
it makes it hard to figure out whether it's a problem with the code, or the 
indentation. Which leads me onto..

   2. Try and include some sort of description as to what errors you're 
getting. I'm assuming it's the Index error. Well, that's the one I'm going 
to talk about...

<code snipped and reformatted by yours truly into>
class but:
   def __init__(self,master,row,col):
        self.button=Button(master,text = ' =',\                              
           command=self.clicked(row,col))
        self.index = 0                          #<-Index defined here
        self.b = Board()

   def clicked(self,row,col):
        self.index = self.index+1  #<-This line's causing the error
        print self.index
<reformatted code ends>

What you're running into is the same problem I- and a few others, probably- 
have in the past. Try this:

>>>from Tkinter import *
>>>from tkMessageBox import *
>>>Button(text="Run me",command= showwarning("Oops!",\
...       "What happened?")).pack()

This illustrates your problem, as the function is being called on creation, 
not on triggering. This means index is needed in your 'clicked' function 
before it is defined. Now, try this one:

>>>Button(text="Run me",command=lambda: showinfo("Aha!",\
...       "That's much better!")).pack()

This creates a nameless function that is triggered when the button is 
clicked. Lambdas are highly useful in this context.

Hope this helps,
Paul

>
>---------------------------------
>With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits 
>your needs


_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Nov 15 16:36:32 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:36:32 -0800
Subject: Tkinter wart: bug or feature?
References: <3dd563db.9499247@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-0E7234.13363215112002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3dd563db.9499247 at nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
 support @ internetdiscovery.com (Mike Clarkson) wrote:

> This started out as a bug report by Peter Deutsch about disappearing
> bitmap images:
...
>     image1 = Tkinter.Image('photo', file=file)
>     lbl = Tkinter.Label(win.window, image=image1)
>     lbl.pack(expand=1, fill=Tix.BOTH)
> 
> The image will not show up if the variable image1 is not
> declared global. I
...
> >When the BitmapImage object is no longer referenced, it is
> >finalized; finalization causes "image delete" to be invoked.
> 
> >Tcl does not keep a reference to the image object; if you
> >don't yourself, nobody does. In turn, the image object goes
> >away right after being created.
> 
> And sure enough, the Tkinter.Image class has a __del__ method
> that does an image delete on the image, so when the procedure
> finishes it deletes the image image1 even though Label wants to make
> use of it.

So, just so I'm clear about this, the workaround is to add image = None
to your procedure, before it returns?

I have some vague memory of hitting something like this (at least, 
tkInter images mysteriously failing to work) when I first tried to learn 
Python, which none of the MacPython experts I asked about could figure 
out, and which permanently turned me off from using tkInter.
So consider this to be corroboration that, if it's not an outright bug, 
it's a serious design misfeature.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 12 03:02:15 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 08:02:15 GMT
Subject: Running python on windows.
References: <8b58f27c.0211112121.36e0de25@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqqci7$nd0$0@216.39.172.122>

On 11 Nov 2002 21:21:04 -0800, kishoreb8 at hotmail.com (kk) wrote:

>Hi 
> I am new to python, tried to run python at >>> prompt its giving
>syntax error.Any one help me to run python scripts on windows.
>
If you have the >>> prompt, python is already running ;-)

In other words, it's ready to interpret statements and expressions
that you may type in. E.g.,

 >>> 2*3
 6
 >>> 2+3
 5
 >>> '2' + '3'
 '23'
 >>> '2' * 3
 '222'
 >>> for i in range(10):
 ...     print i, 2**i
 ...
 0 1
 1 2
 2 4
 3 8
 4 16
 5 32
 6 64
 7 128
 8 256
 9 512

but if you type "python" the way you would to start python
in a DOS console window when you already have the python >>> prompt,
you get this:

 >>> python
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 NameError: name 'python' is not defined

There are lots of helpful people here willing to help, but you have
to do your part. That means try to give all the information necessary
to understand your problem. The best way is to copy from the interactive
test you did and paste it into your newsgroup post. If you had done that
this time, we would know what the syntax error was that you are talking
about, and would be able to help better.

Reading the tutorial at

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html

is a must. You will soon find the basics easy and you'll
find solving problems with Python is fun instead of tiresome ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From usenet at imperialviolet.org  Mon Nov 25 18:48:40 2002
From: usenet at imperialviolet.org (Adam Langley)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:48:40 +0000
Subject: setting a socket to multicast
References: <mailman.1038221915.8750.python-list@python.org> <pan.2002.11.25.12.26.38.792181@imperialviolet.org> <mailman.1038259716.31388.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.25.23.48.39.459472@imperialviolet.org>

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:16:47 +1100, Brad Hards wrote:

> ip_mreqn = struct.pack('IIi', dottedQuadtoNum(addr), 0, 0)

ip_mreqn = struct.pack ('>IIi', dottedQuadtoNum(addr), 0, 0)

(you always pass IPs in big-endian order to the kernel)

I don't know if that actaully works, but the setsockopt doesn't throw an
exception with that change, at least.




From wurmy at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 27 14:11:37 2002
From: wurmy at earthlink.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:11:37 GMT
Subject: re.DOTALL
References: <mailman.1038422918.16102.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE51AB5.1050107@earthlink.net>

Irina Szabo wrote:
> I need to remove all tags from  HTML files.
> 
> matchstr = re.compile(r'''<.*?>''',re.DOTALL|re.MULTILINE)
> print matchstr.sub(" ", str )
> 
> The program works well for  tags located on one line,
> but dosn't  delete tags if  the brackets <> are on different lines, like
> 
> <!--
> body {  font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: 
> #000000}
> -->

Hmm, it works for me:

 >>> s = """
<!--
body {  font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color:
#000000}
-->
"""
 >>> import re
 >>> matchstr = re.compile(r'''<.*?>''',re.DOTALL|re.MULTILINE)
 >>> print matchstr.sub(" ", s)



 >>> print `matchstr.sub(" ", s)`
'\n \n'
 >>>

-- 
Hans (base64.decodestring('d3VybXlAZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldA=='))
# decode for email address ;-)
The Pythonic Quarter:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/
Kaa:: http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/kaa.html



From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  8 15:16:26 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 20:16:26 -0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <20021108.115059.1034949299.9010@cybermesa.com> <uso37rcegqdpf6@corp.supernews.com> <20021108.121940.201305624.9010@cybermesa.com>
Message-ID: <uso6sqgn3fmcb0@corp.supernews.com>

In article <20021108.121940.201305624.9010 at cybermesa.com>,
Jay O'Connor <joconnor at cybermesa.com> wrote:
>In article <uso37rcegqdpf6 at corp.supernews.com>, "Cameron Laird"
><claird at lairds.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <20021108.115059.1034949299.9010 at cybermesa.com>, Jay O'Connor
>> <joconnor at cybermesa.com> wrote:
>> 			.
>> 			.
>> 			.
>>>Yes, I was a Python advocate in a TCL shop for awhile and had a hard
>>>time convincing
>>>people that there was a qualitative difference between.
>>>
>>>set x [lindex [lindex $var 5] 5]
>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>x = var[5][5]
>> 			.
>> 			.
>> 			.
>> Tcl has definite problems that are close to what this example expresses.
>>  Somebody's tilting the idiomatic playing field, though; the experienced
>> Tcl-ers I know would write
>>   set x $var(5,5)
>> rather than deal with the monstrosity above.
>
>Unfortunately the code I was dealing with was using lists of lists of
>lists nested many, many levels deep with no documentation in the code as
>to why '5' was a particular field.
>
>Try hundreds to thousands of lines of 'the monstrosity above' 
			.
			.
			.
You have my sympathy.  Are you making a subtle point
that Tcl invites bad coding?  What you describe sounds
like the moral equivalent of a Pythoneer writing
  i = 0
  while 1:
      if i < 73:
	  break
      i = i + 1
      ...
rather than
  for i in range(limit):
     ...
I'm little inclined to fault Python when people misuse
it so (and they do).
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From claird at lairds.com  Wed Nov 13 08:04:04 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:04:04 -0000
Subject: Is python a good choice for this task?
References: <pan.2002.11.11.20.29.19.704887.2239@spongebob.corporate.com> <aqp58f$8pm$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <ut08vl458fs60d@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1037124201.17612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ut4je48j0lj7cd@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.1037124201.17612.python-list at python.org>,
Justin Sheehy  <justin at iago.org> wrote:
>claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>
>> I think Tcl's sub- process spawning is perceptibly easier than the
>> {popen,popen2, popen3} we most often recommend to newcomers.
>
>For running a simple command, I agree that Tcl's subprocess spawning
>is easier for a newcomer to understand than popen and friends.
>
>So why not recommend the "commands" module instead of popen for those uses?
>
>-Justin
>
>
> 
>
>
>

Good question.

It has answers at a couple of levels.  First, I
claim to observe that Python adepts more rarely
recommend commands than popen2.  I'll speculate
that this is an artifact of commands' late ap-
pearance in Python's standard distribution (was
it 1.5?).

*I*'ve never been able to get commands to do
anything useful under Windows.  It's embarras-
sing.  At the same time, I assumed there were
systematic non-portabilities behind my diffi-
culties.  The portability of Tcl's [exec] and
[open] is, frankly, impressive.

So:  at some point I need to figure out what
my problems with commands on NT and W95 are,
then re-run my comparison with the correspond-
ing Tcl facilities.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Nov 13 07:33:24 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (maxm)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:33:24 +0100
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
References: <mailman.1037073736.4948.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD24694.1060401@mxm.dk>

Terence Ng wrote:
> I guess it cannot consider as spaming if I provide the
> option to remove from the mailing list.


Not only is it spam, but if you send it to someone in Denmark, like me
;-) it is even illegal.

regards Max M



From simon at rendermania.com  Tue Nov 26 19:50:35 2002
From: simon at rendermania.com (Simon Bunker)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:50:35 -0000
Subject: accessing front of a list
Message-ID: <as1539$693$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

This is probably a fairly newbie question - and also because I am
coming from a Perl background. I was wondering if there is a Python
equivilant to Perls shift operator?

There seem to be many ways of getting access to the end of an array -
pop() append() etc but I couldn't find anyting to shift off the front like
when
reading in argv.

This may be becausde I was only learning from the online tutorial/docs which
I have't finished going through. Are there any books worth buying -
particularly
O'Reilley ones? I have seen Learning Python but don't know if this will
cover much more
(although the Perl Llama book isalways useful for Perl), the Programming
Python
and Python Cookbook and the Standalrd Library book. It would be nice if
there was a
"in a Nutshell" one.

thanks

Simon
--
http://www.rendermania.com/




From melster at chello.no  Wed Nov  6 13:12:45 2002
From: melster at chello.no (Martin Elster)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 18:12:45 GMT
Subject: Textbooks on Perl/Python
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <xYcy9.29$Ig5.1030@news01.chello.no>

Jalab wrote:
> Greetings all,
> Any help in finding a university level textbook on the subject of
> "Scripting languages" I am mainly looking for a book that covers Perl
> and Python only as the 2 main scripting languages and that is written
> for students, i.e. chapter summary, exercises, etc. I hate to force my
> student to buy and study from two separate books.
>
> Any ideas?

At the University of Oslo there is currently a course which teaches
Python, Perl and some Bash. The professor, H. P. Langtangen, has written
a textbook called "Scripting Tools for Scientific Computations". The
book hasn't been published yet, but there exists a preliminary version
which the students are using. I like it. You might want to check out the
course homepage (in Norwegian):

http://www.ifi.uio.no/in228/

or take a look at the course notes (in English), which cover alot and
will give you a good idea of what the book is like:

http://www.ifi.uio.no/in228/lecsplit/index.html

If this seems interesting I suggest you get in touch with the
professor/author. You'll find his email address at the course homepage.

Good luck.

Martin




From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov 20 07:04:29 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:04:29 GMT
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <7h3zns4tpqr.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> 3.  When my extension does something wrong, I see
> 'Speicherzugriffsfehler' ('access violation' or so) printed on the
> console.  Why isn't a core dump (for examination) created?

Possibly because your Linux vendor thinks you're a wet-behind-the-ears
grandfather who would be scared by a core file.  Try executing

ulimit -c unlimited

before running your program.

> Do I have to enable this?  Or is it possible to configure gdb so
> that it will automatically pop up to examine the program's state?

If you run your program under gdb (i.e. execute

$ gdb python

and type "run") then any signal -- including sig 11 -- will dump you
into gdb.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  That's why the smartest companies use Common Lisp, but lie about it
  so all their competitors think Lisp is slow and C++ is fast.  (This
  rumor has, however, gotten a little out of hand. :)
                                        -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Nov 17 16:09:25 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:09:25 -0600
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
In-Reply-To: <3DD7F1D4.4090201@attglobal.net> (Pierre Rouleau's message of
 "Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:45:24 -0500")
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net>
	<mailman.1037506706.23922.python-list@python.org>
	<3DD7B7E8.2020402@attglobal.net>
	<mailman.1037549243.6024.python-list@python.org>
	<3DD7F1D4.4090201@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <m2vg2vsy2i.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Pierre" == Pierre Rouleau <pieroul at attglobal.net> writes:

    >> However, the builtin sort is not stable,
    Pierre> In what sense?

A stable sort is one in which 2 elements that compare equal have their
relative order preserved in the sorted and unsorted sequence.  For
objects like numbers, strings and lists, this doesn't matter, because
a 1 is a 1 is a 1.  Integers which compare the same in python *are the
same*.

But since python allows you to define your own comparison functions,
two objects that compare equal may not be the same.  This becomes
especially prominent for user defined classes with many attributes,
where there are many possible sort criteria.  The built-in list sort
does not guarantee anything about the relative order of these objects
in the sorted list, and hence is not 'stable' and not deterministic in
the sense you want.

Suppose you have a class StockQuote, which has attributes price, time,
ticker, volume.  You can write a custom comparison function to sort a
list of stock quotes, that says 

  quote1<quote2 iff quote1.price<quote2.price

If you sort the list, the quotes will be arranged by price, but there
could be many quotes at the same price in your list which are
fundamentally different objects (eg they occurred at different times).
A stable sort guarantees that the relative order of these quotes will
be unchanged in the sort.

The DSU pattern I refereed to above is one of the techniques people
use to take advantage of python's built-in sort efficiency while
guaranteeing a stable sort.

Incidentally, the efficiency of sort in the yet-to-be-released
python2.3 is rumored to be substantially improved.

John Hunter



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 28 02:55:21 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:55:21 -0800
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org> <3DDB3373.2578CEC0@alcyone.com> <8ef9bea6.0211201119.2f846d0c@posting.google.com> <JxqdnQqI-cZFnEGgXTWcqA@comcast.com> <8ef9bea6.0211220601.4c92d43e@posting.google.com> <3DDF1C3B.46BE47BC@alcyone.com> <8ef9bea6.0211272032.4560dd0f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DE5CBE9.AA5EC7D5@alcyone.com>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:

> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
> news:<3DDF1C3B.46BE47BC at alcyone.com>...
>
> > The only thing I can conclude from this comment is that you didn't
> > understand the point I was making.  Maybe you should try tracing
> > back
> > the original thread yourself.
> 
> I did, quite a few times, and I feel deep sympathy for your being
> assaulted by so many people, many of them Python old timer experts.
> What can I say, except that you have my condolences? :)

Guess that makes my argument for me, and I need say no more.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Every exit is an entry somewhere else.
\__/ Tom Stoppard
    PyUID / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/uid/
 A module for generating "unique" IDs in Python.


From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 29 16:36:10 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 13:36:10 -0800
Subject: wxSocketServer in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <b1078faa.0211271801.378f0cbe@posting.google.com>
References: <b1078faa.0211271801.378f0cbe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1038605770.21793.124.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Wed, 2002-11-27 at 18:01, moxie wrote:
> I'm trying to use the wxSocketServer and wxSocketClient classes in
> wxPython, but wxPython does not recognize these classes.
> 
> wxSocketServer and wxSocketClient both are in the wxWindows
> documentation, so I guess these classes are only available for C++ at
> the moment.

You'll find that the typical approach of wxPython is to not wrap
wxWindows classes that already have an equivalent in the Python standard
library.  

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From webmaster at clasp.org  Thu Nov  7 13:46:35 2002
From: webmaster at clasp.org (dapmco)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:46:35 -0500
Subject: Date/Time Conversion
Message-ID: <Wxyy9.39$4G5.14670@news.abs.net>

Im new to Python.. I have it installed on a win2k server. Im trying to
figure out how to return the date if I enter a number corresponding to # of
seconds since the Epoch

Anyone know of a good site with example code??

Dave




From valrub at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 26 16:45:25 2002
From: valrub at hotmail.com (val)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 13:45:25 -0800
Subject: Learning Python
Message-ID: <64ddf295.0211261345.75f47d1b@posting.google.com>

Hello everybody,

I'll be use Python in upcoming project in the beginning of next year
and now I'm looking for some text book on that language.
Maybe some suggestions...?

Thank you
Val


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Tue Nov 12 18:22:00 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:22:00 GMT
Subject: Convert type() to string?
Message-ID: <s2gA9.47879$Lg2.13805658@news2.news.adelphia.net>

I want to be able to print out the type() of a string for a "structure
walker" I'm writing.  I need to be able to prepend a string of pad
characters to the type() so the following:

print padstr + type(x)

won't work because type() does not return a string.  What's a good way to do
this?  I'm using Python 2.1 + Python 2.2 (2.1 for Jython).

thx





From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Nov 18 19:21:07 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:21:07 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E6CC95@mail.hebmex.com> <mailman.1037663448.5430.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-68FE2B.16210718112002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1037663448.5430.python-list at python.org>,
 Chad Netzer <cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov> wrote:

> On Monday 18 November 2002 15:02, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> 
> > It's like comparing strings: first the first char,
> > then the second, etc.
> 
> Exactly, and what makes it easy to remember is that list, tuple, and string 
> comparison are all done in the same way:

Ok, so out of curiosity what does one have to do to get string 
comparisons done alphabetically instead of in ASCII collation ordering?
I tried looking in the Python Library Reference under strings and 
unicode (since one would want correct handling of accented chars) but 
didn't see anything.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From robloche at fr.st  Wed Nov 20 17:34:20 2002
From: robloche at fr.st (Rodolphe)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 22:34:20 GMT
Subject: string encoding problem
Message-ID: <Xns92CCEFC7BE7BBroblochefrst@213.228.0.32>

Hi everybody,

I've got the very short code :

### begin

import tkSimpleDialog
str = tkSimpleDialog.askstring('Bug','Say something...')
print str

### end

And when I run it and enter a string containing accented characters (like 
"fen?tre"), I've got this :

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\Programmes\Python\Cut off\bug.py", line 4, in ?
    print str
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)


Of course, if I enter a "regular" string like "foo bar", the string is 
printed on the screen without raising an error.


Could someone help me out with this simple problem ?


--
Rodolphe


From ark at research.att.com  Tue Nov 12 12:39:27 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:39:27 GMT
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
Message-ID: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

This note is mostly for entertainment purposes.

>>> x = (1, 2, 3)
>>> y = x

>>> x1 = [1, 2, 3]
>>> y1 = x1

>>> x += (4, 5, 6)
>>> x1 += [4, 5, 6]

>>> print y
(1, 2, 3)
>>> print y1
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

Yes, I understand why this happens.
No, I'm not proposing to change it.

I do think that people teaching Python should
be sure that their students understand this example.

You may know that I've written fairly extensively
about pitfalls in C and C++; finding examples such
as this one is part of how I understand the essence
of a language.

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From llothar at web.de  Fri Nov  1 12:57:20 2002
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 09:57:20 -0800
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg> <3mrw9.71925$TD1.3188780@news2.tin.it> <3dc24583.11506984@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0211010957.65d7586d@posting.google.com>

gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz) wrote in message news:<3dc24583.11506984 at news.t-online.de>...

> Lets imagine this: you are a small company of specialists that writes
> some python module. You are in direct company with a big, possibly
> very big company. They do not have any experts in your area (they are
> a big company, so they do lots of stuff besides the area you are in).
> So, they just take your code, because its readily available - the
> source is right there in the installed directory. Chances are that

I don't think they will do this. I never heard about anything like this before.

> you, the small company, will never live long enough to see the end of
> a lawsuit. Plus, lawsuits can be very *very* expensive. Plus, if
> you're a big company, chances are your lawyers are just more and
> better than mine. Plus, the best thing you can expect to come out from
> a lawsuit against a big company is - an agreement. Does the term
> Microsoft anti-monopoly lawsuit ring a bell? 

Yes but this only means that the US american law system sucks.


From graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk  Tue Nov  5 22:38:06 2002
From: graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk (Frodo Morris)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 03:38:06 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk>

Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> Frodo Morris wrote:
> 
>>Daniel Pfeiffer wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>Apache would essentially have a mod_parrot.  Maybe, if this can be
>>>tested very hard, we'd even have a Parrot kernel module for all
>>>Unices supporting that.  Then exec() could perform compiled scripts
>>>right away, like machine code :-)
>>
>>I would have thought that a more platform-independent version of
>>this would be, say, a parrotd, which sits on top of the kernel,
>>intercepts calls to exec() bytecode and spawns the relevant processes.
> 
> 
> What advantage would this have over putting a #! line in the bytecode?
> 
Faster, better, cheaper.
Imagine if parrot could understand all interpreted code.  Why not leave 
it running, so that any Perl/Python/Tcl/Ruby/Java/sh/BASIC/whatever code 
can get to it immediately?  A parrotd exec would consist of: "Run this." 
  "OK".  A #! consists of "Does this file exist?"  "Yes."  "Does it 
work?"  "Yes."  "OK, run this."  "OK".  I contend that a properly set up 
parrotd *should* be faster than the equivalent "each language set up 
separately" environment.

-- 
FM



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Nov 18 19:03:20 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:03:20 -0600
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
In-Reply-To: <9MeC9.17362$0U1.1724486@news2.east.cox.net> ("Richard
 Dillingham"'s message of "Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:32:21 GMT")
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
	<3DD974C6.CD626D0A@alcyone.com>
	<9MeC9.17362$0U1.1724486@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <m2smxyjuif.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Richard" == Richard Dillingham <shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com> writes:

    Richard> As I have asked everyone else that brings up that point,
    Richard> then why does the following fail (Using Python 2.2.2)?

    if a,b==c,d: print a
      File "<input>", line 1
        if a,b==c,d: print a

To simplify note that the following also fails

if 1,2:
    pass

Now, I am no expert in the subtleties of the python language syntax,
but here is my read of the language reference (defns below from The
Python Reference Manual v2.2)


  The `if' statement
  ==================
  
     The `if' statement is used for conditional execution:
  
       if_stmt:        "if" expression ":" suite
                      ("elif" expression ":" suite)*
                      ["else" ":" suite]


The operative part of this is 'expression'.  


  Expression lists
  ================
  
       expression_list:      expression ("," expression)* [","]
  
   An expression list containing at least one comma yields a tuple.
  The length of the tuple is the number of expressions in the list.  The
  expressions are evaluated from left to right.


In the example
if 1,2:
  pass

1,2 is an expression list, *not* an expression


  Parenthesized forms
  -------------------
  
     A parenthesized form is an optional expression list enclosed in
  parentheses:
  
       parenth_form:      "(" [expression_list] ")"
  
     A parenthesized expression list yields whatever that expression list
  yields: if the list contains at least one comma, it yields a tuple;
  otherwise, it yields the single expression that makes up the expression
  list.

if (1,2):
  pass 

This is ok because (1,2) is a parenthesized form.  1,2 creates a
tuple, but from the language definition it is a expression_list, not
an expression.  (1,2) is an expression, so it can be used with the if
statement, while the expression list cannot.

Language mavens feel free to correct me.

John Hunter



From scheff at bigfoot.de  Thu Nov  7 04:15:33 2002
From: scheff at bigfoot.de (Tim Scheffler)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 01:15:33 -0800
Subject: GUI with blocking database access
References: <5ec37a54.0211050322.e663b54@posting.google.com> <aq8i5l$kro$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <5ec37a54.0211070115.425e247b@posting.google.com>

Thanks! That helped alot.

Tim


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Thu Nov 14 21:06:37 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 02:06:37 GMT
Subject: Supporting older Python versions in py2exe?
References: <isyzubx2.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <slrnat8ll3.13p.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> I'm currently working on a major new release of py2exe, but I would
> like to drop support for older Python versions, at least 1.5.2.
> 
> Myself I'm only using Python 2.2 with it's new killer features;-)

Me too :-)

> So, can support be dropped for 1.5.2?

Yes, and for 2.0.x probably as well. I haven't heard of any Windows
users using 2.0.x for a long time. I. e. 2.0.x binaries for the
database modules I build binaries for haven't been requested, yet.
2.1.x binares were.

-- Gerhard


From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Nov 22 14:14:16 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:14:16 -0500
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org>
 <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
 <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de>
 <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com>
 <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
 <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org>
 <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com>
 <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
 <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de>
Message-ID: <IIo39kKkXIdF092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> wrote previously:
|I would like to know more specifically what features make Python
|special to you. As Kenny put it, in what regards is Pythonthink
|different from Otherlangthink?

I think studying the -Zen of Python- is an excellent start for an answer.
And after that, it is an excellent intermediary.

One feature that is not directly a single one of the lines in -Zen- is
the openness of Python.  When I write Python code, I know at every
moment that I could "step behind the scenes" if I wanted to.  Attributes
are not kept away from me, although the underscore conventions make
recommendations I usually obey; the magic methods are available to
change how objects respond to operators, but I know not to do that most
of the time; functions are first class, and basic FP techniques are
available, but only to be used when procedural code is not as
straightforward; and so on.  Python is not at all a
bondage-and-discipline language.

On the other hand, Python still maintains an obvious distinction (to
keep my metaphor) between what is "in the scene" and what is behind it.
With a language like CL, I feel overwhelmed by the feeling of having to
understand -everything- that I -could- do at every moment I do one
particular thing.  The S-expressions, for example, make it painfully
obvious -exactly- what the program is actually doing.  It has no
comfortable level of abstraction where I can pretend I'm living in this
safe and simple world when I just want to write a loop or a conditional
test.

At the other end, Assembly--or C too to a large extent--bring me into
the world of the machine.  I have to think about memory allocation, and
stacks, and pointers, and all sorts of low-level details that have
nothing to do with the problem *I* want to be solving.  You can get
behind the scenes easily with these, but they're the wrong scenes...  I
don't want to poke into the machine, I want to poke into the language.

Of course, all of these are in contrast to a monstrosity like Visual
Basic.  It is bad enough at the language level, where you are handed a
set of high-level abstractions that are both clumsy and inflexible.  You
can't ever step behind these... except in the sense of learning a whole
different language (C/C++/C#) and an unwieldy API (WinAPI/COM/NET/...).
But the way "programmers" actually work in VB is even worse... drag some
widgets around at random, and hope that everything mysteriously works
despite the fact you have no idea what it is doing.

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@  _/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: \_\_\_\_    n o
gnosis  _/_/             Postmodern Enterprises            \_\_
.cx    _/_/                                                 \_\_  d o
      _/_/_/ IN A WORLD W/O WALLS, THERE WOULD BE NO GATES \_\_\_ z e




From python at rcn.com  Fri Nov  1 23:36:07 2002
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:36:07 -0500
Subject: Textbooks on Perl/Python
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <apvknt$2dn$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

> I hate to force my
> student to buy and study from two separate books.
>
> Any ideas?

Why not force your students to download and study
some of the high quality, free on-line tutorials that
are available for both languages?


Raymond Hettinger




From pdm at zamazal.org  Sat Nov  2 03:20:28 2002
From: pdm at zamazal.org (Milan Zamazal)
Date: 02 Nov 2002 09:20:28 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <873cqktmb7.fsf@zamazal.org>

>>>>> "MvL" == Martin v L?wis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> writes:

    MvL> Milan Zamazal <pdm at zamazal.org> writes:
    >> Much less painful conversion to the other very useful formats,
    >> like Info?

    MvL> Not if it is DocBook. You would need a custom processor for
    MvL> that.

You can extend the DTD and stylesheets and I'd guess it is not much more
difficult than defining new LaTeX commands.

The main problem with LaTeX is it's quite unstructured and AFAIK without
available general document parser, so unlike reasonable SGML/XML
documents, you can't convert it into other formats easily.

Milan Zamazal

-- 
If we are going to start removing packages because of the quality of the
software, wonderful.  I move to remove all traces of the travesty of editors,
vi, from Debian, since obviously as editors they are less than alpha quality
software.                                   -- Manoj Srivastava in debian-devel


From theller at python.net  Tue Nov 19 05:03:33 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 11:03:33 +0100
Subject: Simple Encryption
References: <ard013$obo$1@sp15at20.hursley.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <y97p511m.fsf@python.net>

"Bronek Carr" <BCARR1 at uk.ibm.com> writes:

> I am trying to write a simple ROT-13 encryption script in python.  A good
> starting point would be a function which gets the ascii value of a character
> in a string.  I would assume this function already exists in one of the
> packages, as it does in every other language I use.  I cannot find it if it
> does, can anyone help me.
> 

Does this help?

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> "Hello World".encode("rot_13")
'Uryyb Jbeyq'
>>>

Thomas


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 19 21:01:16 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:01:16 -0800
Subject: Simple Encryption
References: <ard013$obo$1@sp15at20.hursley.ibm.com> <y97p511m.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <cdqera.em3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Thomas Heller fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 19 November 2002 
02:03 am:

> 
> Does this help?
> 
> Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
> information.
>>>> "Hello World".encode("rot_13")
> 'Uryyb Jbeyq'
>>>>

        Heh... and here I was about to suggest string.translate()

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Nov 22 01:51:16 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:51:16 -0600
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
In-Reply-To: <9k3D9.35511$744.1314342@news1.tin.it> (Alex Martelli's message
 of "Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:20:37 GMT")
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com>
	<argdnk$6ed$1@wheel2.two14.net> <7SUC9.34440$744.1277405@news1.tin.it>
	<arhisr$6k9$1@wheel2.two14.net> <9k3D9.35511$744.1314342@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <m2n0o2nlln.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Alex" == Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

    Alex> So, if your question was meant to be rhetorical, it seems
    Alex> particularly inappropriate to me.  If instead it was asked
    Alex> in earnest, to learn crucial facts you didn't know about how
    Alex> re's and mo's work or about how they're often used, then I
    Alex> think you might usefully have refrained from criticizing
    Alex> what you suspected you didn't fully understand.  But I do
    Alex> gather that trying to understand a subject before
    Alex> criticising is quite an obsolete approach these days.

I, for one, am interested in learning crucial facts.  

For me, the launching point of this thread was on "differential
processing of different match objects".  That is, if a string matches
rgx1 (with it's own particular subgroups), do process1.  If it matches
rgx2, with a (possibly) different set of subgroups, do process2.

   http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=mailman.1037141776.20667.python-list%40python.org

That the match object processing functions in the example code in
previous posts did not explicitly process match objects differently
was a time and typing convenience, as illustrated in the comment
string of the example below:
(http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=mailman.1037751635.2665.python-list%40python.org):

   handler1 = handler2 = handler3 = lambda x: None   # some very dumb handlers

That said, I too am unsatisfied with the M*N performance of the (rgx,
func) pattern:

  for line in lines[:M]:
     for rgx in regexs[:N]:
         mo = rgx.match(line)
         if mo: do_something(mo)

You've mentioned named rgx's in your previous posts.  In the case of
differential processing of match objects based on the regex match, is
there a more efficient way to process the mo's than this M*N approach?

Aside from these details, let me just say that you (Alex) rock.
Thanks for your posts, your recipes, and all that.

John Hunter





From ostiguy at fnal.gov  Thu Nov 21 11:36:13 2002
From: ostiguy at fnal.gov (Francois Ostiguy)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:36:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject: python namespace
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0211211023390.9048-100000@boopsie.fnal.gov>

Hello All -

I am trying to understand how to achieve the following.

Assume 2 functions f1 and f2 defined in a C shared library named
"outer.so".

I would like these functions to be mapped in different namespaces in
python, e.g.

outer.inner1.f1()
outer.inner2.f2()

As far as I understand, this can be achieved by creating the three
modules "outer", "inner1" and "inner2". inner1 and inner2 should be
submodules of outer and f1, f2 defined in inner1 and inner2 respectively.

Can this be done *without* creating a directory structure and three
separate modules ? In other words, can the outer module
initialization function call PyModule_New to create submodules ?

A simple working example or pointers to relevant documentation
would be much appreciated.

-Francois

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Jean-Francois OSTIGUY                              voice: (630) 840-2231
Beam Physics Dept MS220                                  FAX: (630) 840-6039
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory                email: ostiguy at fnal.gov
Batavia IL 60510-0500                           WWW:www-ap.fnal.gov/~ostiguy





From imbosol at vt.edu  Mon Nov 11 15:17:29 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:17:29 -0500
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <aqokmr$lgb$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <aqp3b3$jm3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

David Brown wrote:
r> 
> "Pittaya" <a_human_work at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8 at posting.google.com...
>> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
>> a single line of code.
>>
>> perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
>>
>> can python do something like this?
> 
> No, I don't think you can make a loop that continuously prints out anything
> within a single line (and without defining another function).

Incorrect.


> But can perl do something like this:
> 
> a, b = 1, 1
> while 1 :
>    a, b = b+a, a
>    print a
> 
> It does the same thing - the big difference is in readability.  Why you
> might want to do this on a single line is beyond me.


Because it's fun!!!


while 1: globals().setdefault("a",0); globals().setdefault("b",1); \
    __import__("sys").stdout.write("%d "% a); a,b=b+a,a


-- 
CARL BANKS


From maney at pobox.com  Sat Nov 16 15:17:36 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:17:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <aqunac$qj$4@wheel2.two14.net> <aquvr6$qrb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <ar3s1l$q9$1@wheel2.two14.net> <ar4c70$4j5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <ar6950$1tn$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote:
> You mentioned the problems with passing a lot of parameters into a
> function when I said I liked to factor the set-and-test chain into its
> own function so I could use return to break out of it.  At least,

Ah yes, I see.  I might also have referred to that as a drawback of the
logic-becomes-data approach.  It's a good point, although for some
reason - this is interesting - I don't seem to feel that this is nearly
so much an issue for a function that wraps the get-stuff-to-test logic
as the process-stuff-this-way part.  I guess that would be reflecting
my own experience w.r.t. how often there's an annoying amount of local
context needed for those two different roles.  The implementation that
factors the whole switch out in order to [ab]use return as a workaround
would, I expect, suffer from that even more so, since it needs to be
passed all the context for all the tests and all the actions - OTOH, it
benefits by having that done all at once and only once... at least
until another case comes along that needs to reference another bit fo
state.

But it might avoid that if it were def'd as a nested function, if I've
got that straight?  I'm not sure I grok that in fullness - does the
nested def get recompiled on every call to the containing function, or
is it compiled once and then skipped?  Come to think of it, at least
some bits must be processed per call-of-containing or else some of the
recipies that bind to default args of the nested function wouldn't
work.  I think.  Pending further study of this small, simple language. 
<grin>

> But, if you write a function so that you do a lot of things before the
> if condition (which you said you could do when I said an assignment
> operator didn't cover the cases where you had a lot of things to do
> before the if operator), you would have the same problem.

There is a heuristic in my brain that begrudges the overhead of
packaging things in classes or functions in inverse proportion to the
benefit I perceive I'm getting from that packaging.  More or less -
there seem to be a number of parameters and hidden controls involved
that I doubt I can consciously describe with much accuracy.  But the
upshot is that if I'm doing "a lot" then it seems natural to spend
somewhat more effort on structuring it nicely, such as by factoring
that chunk of logic off into a function.

> Well, my feelings about generality are this: if you implement a
> partial solution, that leaves the possibility that you might implement
> a full solution someday, in which case the partial solution you put in
> before is now redundant.  But once you've put something in, you can't
> take it out without breaking backwards-compatibility, so you're stuck
> with it.

I'm not sure I really want to take part in a revival of the whole
do-the-right-thing versus godd-enough-is-good-enough discussion.  :-)

> I.e., it's generality for the sake of not having more than one way to
> do it.  Which, of course, is The Python Way(tm).

Yeah, I've seen that too, as well as the attempts to explain what the
catch phrase really means.  It seems to me that it is also Pythonic not
to forget that perfect generality often has a cost - this is coming
back around to my thought about how perfect generality might offer some
food for thought w.r.t. OP's inquiry.



From pellis at tampabay.rr.com  Sun Nov  3 00:54:49 2002
From: pellis at tampabay.rr.com (Patrick Ellis)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 05:54:49 GMT
Subject: Ruby and Python (was Re: Why is Python a good first scripting language?)
References: <y5js9.10512$Pk1.5595@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <ap1c7o$25q6$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <Sgiu9.33609$aL4.1010957@news1.tin.it> <m3vg3qjg9n.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Onsu9.34485$aL4.1048035@news1.tin.it> <m2iszk9hwq.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <JS2x9.217127$S8.4022506@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

"Michael Hudson" <mwh at python.net> wrote:
>
> This sieve is the second quickest I know in Python (it's due to Tim
> Peters):
>
> def sieve(n):
>     if n < 2:
>         return []
>     limit = int(math.sqrt(n))
>     primes = range(1, n+1, 2)
>     primes[0] = 0
>     n = len(primes)
>     for p in primes:
>         if not p: continue
>         if p <= limit:
>             # note that p*p is odd, so no need to subtract 1
>             # before shifting right -- same thing in the end
>             for i in xrange((p*p)>>1, n, p):
>                 primes[i] = 0
>             continue
>         break
>     primes[0] = 2
>     return filter(None, primes)
>
> This is from this thread
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=36921CBF.4A5450FB%40appliedbiometric
s.com
> back in 1999, which is fun reading.
>
> Interesting!  Tim's version is quicker with python 2.3.  I'd dig into
> why, if I cared <wink>.

I was playing with this and found that looping on this function resulted in
increasing run time for each iteration (for Python 2.2.1 on Windows ME).

for i in range(10):
    start = time.time()
    primes = sieve(10000000)
    stop = time.time()
    primes = None
    print "Primes took %7.3f seconds"%((stop-start))

Results in:

Primes took   6.370 seconds
Primes took   7.470 seconds
Primes took   8.080 seconds
Primes took   8.300 seconds
Primes took   8.400 seconds
Primes took   8.460 seconds
Primes took   8.510 seconds
Primes took   8.570 seconds
Primes took   8.570 seconds
Primes took   8.620 seconds

Note that removing the primes = None line results in settling around 8.9
instead of 8.6. My guess is this has to do with allocating and deallocating
millions of integer objects to put in the primes list. The 0.3 sec
difference is how long it takes to deallocate the returned list. Python 2.3
does memory more efficiently and is why it runs faster.

I came up with a new version that uses the Numeric package. It is
algorithmically identical, just with a few implementation changes.

def sieve(n):
    if n < 2:
        return []
    limit = (int(math.sqrt(n)) / 2) + 1
    primes = Numeric.arrayrange(1, n+1, 2)
    n = len(primes)
    for p in primes[1:limit]:
        if p:
            # note that p*p is odd, so no need to subtract 1
            # before shifting right -- same thing in the end
            primes[(p*p)>>1::p] = 0
    return list(Numeric.nonzero(primes))

The same test as above results in:

Primes took   1.870 seconds
Primes took   1.810 seconds
Primes took   1.760 seconds
Primes took   1.810 seconds
Primes took   1.870 seconds
Primes took   1.750 seconds
Primes took   1.820 seconds
Primes took   1.810 seconds
Primes took   1.810 seconds
Primes took   1.810 seconds

Because it uses arrays that store the integers directly, instead of many
tiny integer objects, it doesn't have the memory management overhead and
resulting increasing runtime. The biggest speed increase is replacing the
inner loop with an assignment statement to a slice (which doesn't work with
lists).

8.57 sec / 1.81 sec = 4.7 times faster.

I was impressed with how easy it was to switch from list to Numeric array.
Just switching from range to arrayrange changes the entire function over,
without any other code changes. It was a good speedup by itself and
eliminated the memory allocation problems.

Patrick Ellis




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Nov 14 15:14:05 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 15:14:05 -0500
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list@python.org> <Pnfy9.2862$h%5.101642@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <ar106d$7bg$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <Pnfy9.2862$h%5.101642 at newsb.telia.net>,
Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
>Tim Peters wrote:
>>>
>>> What am I supposed to do to make the warning go away? Rewrite 0x80000000
>>> as 0x40000000 * 2 ? ;-)
>>
>> Write it in a platform-independent way.  If you *intended* this literal to
>> mean "a 1 bit followed by 31 zero bits", then stick an L on the end of the
>> literal.
>
>...and remove it again when you get to Python 2.5.

Why?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov  4 17:53:10 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 14:53:10 -0800
Subject: Crash in curses stdscr.getkey?
Message-ID: <3DC6FA56.74A8D516@alcyone.com>

I'd receive a report from someone using CAGE (my cellular automata
explorer in Python which uses curses) that he was getting crashes; he
ran SuSE.  He fiddled around fond a workaround.  If he changed the line
from

	char = self.stdscr.getkey()

to

	char = self.stdscr.getch()
	if 1 <= char <= 255:
	    char = chr(char)

he found that the crash went away.  I had presumed it was just an
isolated incident (i.e., he had a corrupt curses library on his system
or something similar), but just the other day another user reported the
same crash, and when I sent them the workaround, it went away.

Both users use Linux; the first used SuSE and the latter used Red Hat. 
I use Slackware, and haven't seen any such crash (though both code
fragments work fine).  The first was using Python 2.2.1; the latter was
using Python 2.2.2.

Is this a known problem, or should I try to get the endusers to research
it further to submit bugs to the appropriate parties?  (I can't tell
whether it's a curses problem or a Python glue problem.)

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Only the winners decide what were war crimes.
\__/ Gary Wills
    Max Pandaemonium / http://www.maxpandaemonium.com/
 A sampling of Max Pandameonium's music.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov  6 02:07:15 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 08:07:15 +0100
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m38z079nx8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"phil (at) linux2000.com" <"phil (at) linux2000.com"> writes:

> So where does this leave software such as PythonCard ?
> (http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net) - this is released "under the
> Python 2.2 license".

That statement may or may not be legally relevant, IANAL. However, I
think that doesn't matter: what matters is whether users get an idea
what the author of the package allows them to do with the software. If
the user and the author have the same understanding of what is
permitted, and users stick to these rules, the legal standing of the
license is irrelevant.

If users do things that the author dislikes, and the authors brings
that up to court, the court will decide. On thing it is clear in that
case: the lawyers win.

> I've been apalled (and my apologies for straying slightly off-topic
> here) by the amount of fragmentation that exists in terms of the
> licenses deemed to be either "Open source compatible" and/or "GPL
> compatible" on the OSF website.
> 
> The open source community seems to be shooting itself in the foot on
> this particular issue, as far as I can see.

I very much doubt that. People developing and using open source
software are much more bound by social constraints than by legal
ones. They interpret licenses themselves (without having lawyers
analyse them), to get the spirit of the license. If some organization
apparently violates some license, the community gets upset, and the
organization reconsiders.

Regards,
Martin


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Nov  6 16:16:57 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 15:16:57 -0600
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
	<aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net>
	<aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk>  <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <1036617417.693.42.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Wed, 2002-11-06 at 02:07, Andrew Dalke wrote:
> Frodo Morris wrote:
> > Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
>   ...
> >> What advantage would this have over putting a #! line in the bytecode?
> >>
> > Faster, better, cheaper.
> > Imagine if parrot could understand all interpreted code.  Why not leave 
> > it running, so that any Perl/Python/Tcl/Ruby/Java/sh/BASIC/whatever code 
> > can get to it immediately?
> 
> Some years back, RMS proposed a standard 'scripting' language called
> Guile.  See, various languages like Tcl, Perl, Python, etc. were
> being developed and none of them were 1) developed under the FSF nor
> 2) a variation of Scheme.  (A simplified and perhaps biased
> interpretation of mine.)

I don't think this is really correct -- I think it was mostly because
Tcl was a lame language, and was being pushed as an application
scripting language.  Of course, Lisp is close to RMS's heart, which is
why the FSF proposed Scheme as an alternative over other languages. 
Simplicity was always essential for an application scripting language,
which is probably why Perl wasn't a serious contender.  It was also a
long time ago, when Python was young.  And the translation dream.

> A key part of his proposal was that Guile would support translators
> from other languages, like Python, C, etc., to Guile.
> 
> It didn't happen.  Writing those translators are hard because each
> of the languages has different object models, which must be implemented
> nearly perfectly.  Guile is a full-fledge language built on years of
> research into Lisp and scheme, so I would be surprised if it was any
> easier to implement in Parrot's byte code.  It didn't happen with
> Guile, it's even less likely to happen with Parrot.

Part of the problem with Guile was that there wasn't any developer drive
-- RMS and some others had a vision of translators, but they weren't
involved in developing Guile -- it was mostly Scheme-o-philes, who
unsurprisingly weren't very interested in translators.  The only truly
serious effort was to translate elisp, and even that wasn't really done
in a community manner.

Guile's implementation was also taken from another Scheme
implementation, which was not originally developed with any
consideration to translators.  

But you're right, it is a really hard problem anyway.  And there's lots
of details.  

You have to deal with competing naming conventions -- Scheme allows
almost all characters in its functions, for instance.  Lots of languages
have different namespaces for functions and variables.  Something like
Smalltalk has an entirely different notion of method naming, even though
its semantics are close to these other languages.  It seems small, but
it's a pain.

There's also issues with errors -- if you want a usable language, a
traceback like Python's should be a bare minimum in this day.  But what
does that look like with mixed languages?  What does that even look like
with one language, ontop of a VM that's meant to be generic?  This is
often dealt with very poorly as VM developers mostly test with trivial
and correct programs.

And of course there's a huge number of problems with objects.  Mutable
vs. immutable strings being a good example -- it's not just a n x m
problems, it's a straight-up no-good-solution problem.  There's no
*right* way to deal with this.  Each language means something different
by "string", and yet it's so important to each language that if you
expect them to interoperate *at all* you need to deal with that.  Do you
annotate functions and methods so that some automatic interoperation
layer can be used?  Do you force users to use awkward constructions,
exposing the fact that they're accessing another language?  Do you
create wrappers?  Do you just punt, and assume some simplistic behavior
will be good enough, even though it's not predictable to the programmer?

C#/CLR I believe has resolved these issues by forcing the languages to
adapt to a common set of semantics.  I just can't imagine a common set
of semantics that would bring Perl and Python together -- Python and
Ruby, sure, but there's not enough common ground with Perl to do that.

> I can "imagine if parrot ..."  But it isn't going to happen without
> *huge* amounts of work; comparable to writing Jython.  (A Python
> implementation written on top of Java rather than C.)
> 
> On the other hand, consider the gcc suite of tools.  These convert C,
> C++, Pascal, Fortran, Objective C, ... into a more generic form.  So
> there is some known success in doing this.  But I've looked at gcc
> code and it isn't something I want to hack, while I've contributed code
> to Python's C implementation.

I don't know if GCC has a lot to offer in way of advise or experience. 
It can compile many languages into various instructions, but it doesn't
do anything for interoperability AFAIK (except for deliberately similar
languages, like C and C++, which were built for interoperability).

  Ian




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Mon Nov 25 01:27:45 2002
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 06:27:45 GMT
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <arsft1$h94$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Timothy Rue <threeseas at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Python Dicktatorshit.
[snip irc log]

Hey,

Too bad I wasn't around on irc at that time, I would've enjoyed this
discussion. The reason why people were turning the discussion into
"you don't need threads. threads are evil" is because the system-global
variable system you seem to be proposing has some related issues.

If you want globally shared data (which is something you do get
in multithreaded programming as well) you will run into various issues;
what if you're working with a certain variable (for instance looping through
it) and someone changes it in the middle of your loop to some completely
different value? This is possible as some other process can do this.
There are a host of problems with this kind of thing.

There are ways to handle this using a variety of programming techniques.
People were asking what your goals were to try to figure out what techniques
would be best for you. You seemed to believe the problems did not exist
and you were asking for something really simple.

Regards,

Martijn



From dlashar at sprynet.com  Fri Nov  8 11:09:49 2002
From: dlashar at sprynet.com (David)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:09:49 -0500
Subject: Shelves:  Alternatives?
Message-ID: <aqgnk6$h5$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

A few days ago, I posted a question about a quirky error in which the
loading of a shelve file was suddenly raising an error (see below).  The
problem, it seems, is that when the object being stored reaches a certain
size, the shelve module can no longer handle it.  (I'm running Python 2.2.1
on Win2000; the break point seems to be somewhere around 100KB.)  I can get
around this problem using the pickle module.  But, still a Python newbie, I
was wondering if there's an alternative to the standard shelve module that I
could/should try?  Thanks in advance.

    David

Original Posting:

Hello.  I am getting some behavior with shelves that I can't figure out.  As
shown below, I have a data file that yields an error when the keys() method
is initially invoked.  If, however, I invoke the keys() method after
checking for the existence of the expected key (w/ the has_key() method),
the keys() method "suddenly" works.  Any insights/suggestions would be
appreciated.  Thanks,

    David

>>> sh = shelve.open('c:\\jdl_files\\sport.data')
>>> sh.keys()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "shelve.py", line 56, in keys
    return self.dict.keys()
error: (22, 'Invalid argument')
>>> sh.dict.has_key('baseball')
1
>>> sh.keys()
['baseball']
>>> sh.close()







From bh at intevation.de  Wed Nov 13 06:01:08 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 12:01:08 +0100
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <mailman.1037127134.12999.python-list@python.org> <3DD17230.4A57CDD@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <6qadkd68ej.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> 
> 	L = [1, 2, 3]
> 	L += [4, 5, 6]
> 
> is the equivalent of
> 
> 	L = [1, 2, 3]
> 	L.extend([4, 5, 6])

Not quite. It's more like

      L = [1, 2, 3]
      L = L.__iadd__([4, 5, 6])

The rebinding as always done. So += can sometimes fail for a list:

>>> t = ([1,2,3],)
>>> t[0] += [4, 5, 6]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: object doesn't support item assignment

Of course, the list already has been modified in place:
>>> t
([1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6],)


   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/


From rstephens at vectron.com  Sat Nov 30 19:25:25 2002
From: rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: 30 Nov 2002 16:25:25 -0800
Subject: ANN: EasyGui version 0.5
References: <b16e4ef7.0211300616.32312f55@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5415304.0211301625.1055851d@posting.google.com>

steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg) wrote in message news:<b16e4ef7.0211300616.32312f55 at posting.google.com>...
> I've just released easygui version 0.5
> It is available at http://www.ferg.org/easygui

Thanks, Steve. I am trying out easygui tonight for the first time.
Your addition of integerbox may make easygui work very well for some
little programs I have that I want to convert to a gui input-output
format, for easier user interaction than my command line versions.

I really, really like the idea behind easygui and it sure seems simple
and intuitive so far. I will email to you any results I get on my
programs..maybe you can use one as an example someday ;-)))

Thanks for putting the effort into this. I, for one, really appreciate
it. I think it adds something useful to the Python community and I
would love to see a future version included in the standard Python
distribution.


I encourage others to try out easygui..it is nice.

Ron Stephens


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Tue Nov 19 18:26:04 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:26:04 GMT
Subject: Non-GPL alternative to rssparser.py?
Message-ID: <gMzC9.55606$Lg2.15503887@news2.news.adelphia.net>

Anybody seen a Python RSS parser released under BSD or Python style license?
rssparser.py is GPL.

thx





From kendall at monkeyfist.com  Fri Nov  8 14:28:43 2002
From: kendall at monkeyfist.com (Kendall Grant Clark)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:28:43 -0600
Subject: Pygame in upcoming Py (Was: Re: Python Browser Applets)
In-Reply-To: <E189tPP-0004E8-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <20021107104810.18770.42636.Mailman@mail.python.org>
	<E189tPP-0004E8-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <15820.4203.976087.7169@rosa.monkeyfist.com>

>>>>> "terry" == Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> writes:

  terry> Ah well, I guess SDL+PyGame+PyUI can come to the rescue here. At
  terry> least the SDL+PyGame renderer is already written. So it's now
  terry> just a question of handing that native window to SDL.

I'd like to mention that the forthcoming new issue (1.03) of Py features
an interesting article about Pygame by its author, Pete Shinners.

Issue 1.03 also includes a postmortem interview of Irrational Games'
Freedom Force, which uses Python.

Subscription information and other stuff can be found at 

	     http://pyzine.com/

Best,
Kendall Clark
--
In this world there are only two tragedies. One is not getting what one
wants, and the other is getting it. --Oscar Wilde



From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Tue Nov 26 05:10:47 2002
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:10:47 +0100
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <20021126043142.4323.25612.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1038295415.22435.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3de34d69$0$71692$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

"Terry Hancock" <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
>(BTW, I never used
> reduce, never understood what it was good for, and don't immediately
> see how it can be done using list-comps -- would be genuinely interested
> in seeing a couple of example if anyone's willing). 

from operator import add
reduce(add, [1, 3, 17])

More generally, reduce is (true) functional programmings answer to for
loops.  A for loop on the general form:

S = initial_s
for x in xs:
    S = change(S,x)
# result in S

can be expressed functionally as:

reduce(change, xs, initial_S)

my-only-beef-with-reduce-is-that-I-can-never-remember-what-it's-called-ly
y'rs, Anders




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 19 21:59:35 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:59:35 -0800
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <2259b0e2.0211190937.217dc25d@posting.google.com> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net>
Message-ID: <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com>

Mike Dean wrote:

> I've seen this trick a time or two before and always wondered - why
> does
> it work?  Why does Python remember the changed list as the function's
> default value, rather than reverting back to the list that was
> specified when the function was defined?  At first glance it seems a
> bit non-intuitive.

Because when you define a default value for a function parameter, the
value is always the same object; it's not reinitialized each time.  This
doesn't really matter when the object is immutable (since it can't
change it doesn't matter that it's always the same object), but when
it's mutable you need to be careful.

If you really do want a different each object each time, then do
something like:

	def f(x, l=None):
	    if l is None:
	        l = [] # now it's a new list each time
	    ...

As for the "why," I think it's just a historical accident which is too
late to change now.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nationalism is an infantile sickness.
\__/ Albert Einstein
    Blackgirl International / http://www.blackgirl.org/
 The Internet resource for black women.


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Wed Nov  6 16:40:51 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:40:51 -0000
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasj332.v3h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters wrote:
>> What am I supposed to do to make the warning go away? Rewrite 0x80000000
>> as 0x40000000 * 2 ? ;-)
> 
> Write it in a platform-independent way.  If you *intended* this literal to
> mean "a 1 bit followed by 31 zero bits", then stick an L on the end of the
> literal.

That'll generate a warning when we get to stage B2 of PEP237 and an
error by stage B4 so that makes things worse... (not much worse since
B4 is so far off, but still...)

I don't really like the idea of hacking around with the warning
module, so I guess I'll replace 0x80000000 with (-0x7fffffff-1) which
won't generate a warning on any version of Python and will work on all
versions... I think ;-)


From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Nov  4 12:34:26 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:34:26 -0800
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
In-Reply-To: <slrnasdarg.sn4.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>
Message-ID: <001701c28428$6be911b0$21795418@dell1700>

Jacob wrote:

> It isn't missing, actually; your eyeballs must have veered off course
> for a moment.

OK, found it. Thanks.

> Method signatures don't have to include type information.  The number
> and name of arguments is a signature, too.

So the code doesn't follow the signature proposal described at:
http://www.ampoliros.com/en/dev/sdk/xmlrpc/sysmethodsig.html

So, for example:

def add(x, y): return x + y

system.methodSignature('add') =>

[[int, int, int], 
 [string, string, string], 
 [array, array, array], 
 [double, double, double]]

Cheers,
Brian




From marvelan at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 16 13:52:36 2002
From: marvelan at hotmail.com (M)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 10:52:36 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c0abefc3.0211161052.2b2fd2d3@posting.google.com>

There seems to be many opinions about my post. That is good. Thanks everybody
for discussing this. 

To add fuel I just meantion a few more or less random points...

I'll give you a list of things you must consider when
specifying a function interface in C++. I use C++ as my personal horror
story generator but you could possibly replace C++ with many other
languages. The reason why I make this example is to show something I would
like never to be needed for Python.

So, to define a function in C++, please consider the following:

1) Operator or non-operator function?
2) Free or member function?
3) Virtual or non-virtual function?
4) Pure or non-pure virtual member function?
5) Static or non-static member function?
6) const or non-const member function?
7) Public, protected, or private member function?
8) Return by value, reference, or pointer?
9) Return const or non-const?
10) Optional or required argument?
11) Argument by value, reference or pointer?
12) Pass argument as const or non-const?
13) Friend or non-friend function?
14) inline or non-inline

This is just *one example*. (C++ happens to be the victim here because
I have programmed it) I could have picked something else horrible
about class templates or template parameters or whatever. Nevertheless my
point is that a language can be too complex when trying to make it
powerfull. A function is really a simple abstraction, why make it this
complex? 

Some of the posters say that it is "just to learn python properly". Yes, that
would be nice if all programmers in all projects in the world had several years
or more experience in using the tools/languages of the project. But this
is not reality (not mine anyway). Many times people end up fixing things 
and adding modules using languages they have never seen and will never see
again. If trying to do this with a complex language that is hard to read one
could easily predict the results...

Its also about $$. I don't want a programmer to be stuck in trying to
understand a complicated language feature. It does not provide value to
our customers. I want a language to be simple, simple, simple. But not
simpler than that ;-) Don't throw in a nice feature that can solve a problem
in a few lines of code if the same problem can already be solved with
the language. Just and example. Operator overloading. Why should we have it?
Just so that you can write vector1 + vector2 instead of vector1.add(vector2)?
Maybe not the best example but I hope you understand my point.

A language that does not give programmers suprises is good. A high suprise
factor just gives you more bugs. The addition of default behaviour can be one
such thing. Look at Perl. Lots of things happen without that you
can see it in the code. It should not happen if you can not see it in
the code! (C++ again; crash before entering main anyone?).


/Marv

Keep on writing...


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 26 20:24:14 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:24:14 -0800
Subject: accessing front of a list
References: <as1539$693$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <3DE41D5D.2000406@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DE41EBE.B60BA9FE@alcyone.com>

Hans Nowak wrote:

> You probably want pop(0):
> 
>  >>> a = range(5)
>  >>> x = a.pop(0)
>  >>> x
> 0
>  >>> a
> [1, 2, 3, 4]
> 
> ...but destructive processing of lists this way is relatively rare,
> IMHO.

It's also worth noting that it's an O(n) operation, since the list
elements have to be shuffled down when inserting or deleting one.  If
you're iterating over the whole sequence, that makes it O(n^2).

If that's the case, you're probably better off reversing the list (an
O(n) operation) and then popping them off the end (with L.pop()), which
is an O(1) operation.  That gives you two separate O(n) operations,
instead of an O(n) operation within an O(n) operation (which makes it
O(n^2)).

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Everyone wants to look good at his own funeral.
\__/ Louis Wu
    PyUID / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/uid/
 A module for generating "unique" IDs in Python.


From spahievi at vega.bg  Thu Nov 14 15:47:37 2002
From: spahievi at vega.bg (Niki Spahiev)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:47:37 +0200
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
In-Reply-To: <2458268.1037219848120.JavaMail.camhorn@mac.com>
References: <2458268.1037219848120.JavaMail.camhorn@mac.com>
Message-ID: <955931008.20021114224737@vega.bg>

11/13/2002, 22:37:28, Cameron Horn wrote:


CH> Assuming that having an empty generator is as valid as empty functions and classes, what kind of linguistic cruft is that?  I expect better out of python, dang it.

CH> What I'd like to write is:
CH> gen foo():
CH>    return


def foo():
    if 0: yield None

optimized to empty generator by compiler
-- 
Best regards,
 Niki Spahiev




From imbosol at vt.edu  Tue Nov 19 19:32:05 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:32:05 -0500
Subject: Implementing some of 'ls -l" directly in python
References: <16iera.t5g1.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <aremaf$8v8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> I have been looking high and low for several hours to answer a (probably
> simple) question with no luck. So, to the PyGeniuses I go:
> 
> I want to implement something similar to an 'ls -l file' in a script I'm
> writing. I'd like to avoid actually spawning 'ls' because I want to
> script to run on Win32 as well as *nix.
> 
> So, I use os.path.getmtime and os.path.getsize for two of the things I
> need. 

Why?  These are also returned by os.stat.  I'd guess that these do a
stat internally to get the information, meaning that, for every file,
your program does three stats.  I recommend using only one call to
os.stat.

(And, here on Linux, stat seems to be the most annoyingly slow system
call, so I'd never do more than I had to.)


> I then stat the file to get its UID, GID, and permission bits.
> Here's where I get stuck. I cannot seem to find a portable way to
> convert the UID/GID into their equivalent string names.

For unix, see the pwd and grp modules.  No clue how to do it for
Windows, and I doubt you can do it portably.  (Does Windows even use
user ids? or just the names?)  Filesystems are just too different to
really do anything completely portably; you can only depend on the
Python standard library to do so much.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From jgoodlet at genesis.cs.utc.edu  Sat Nov 23 10:22:45 2002
From: jgoodlet at genesis.cs.utc.edu (Joshua Goodlett)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 07:22:45 -0800
Subject: rss.py for win32.
References: <Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP@195.112.4.37>
Message-ID: <a439a820.0211230722.10a0c0bf@posting.google.com>

Dave Pawson <dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk> wrote in message news:<Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP at 195.112.4.37>...
> http://orchard.sourceforge.net/doc/RSS-parser.py
> 
> Appears to be *nix only.
> Has anyone seen a win32  version please?
> 
> TIA DaveP

You might try looking into Mark Nottingham's RSS.py module, which you
can find at http://www.mnot.net/python/RSS.py.  I'm running W2K with
Python 2.2 and have had no trouble using it.  There's also a nice
article that illustrates the module's use at
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/ws-pyth11.html.  Hope
that helps!

Cheers,
- Joshua


From bryan at pyzine.com  Tue Nov 12 15:21:51 2002
From: bryan at pyzine.com (Bryan Richard)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:21:51 -0800
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <20021112164933.A29726@ibook.distro.conectiva> <mailman.1037127257.20801.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqrnpv010t9@enews2.newsguy.com>

Andrew Koenig wrote:

>>> >>> x = (1, 2, 3)
> 
>>> >>> x += (4, 5, 6)
> 
> Gustavo> Hey, shouldn't this raise an exception?
> 
> Perhaps it should, but it doesn't:  If x is a tuple,
> 
> x += y
> 
> is equivalent to
> 
> x = x + y
> 
> which creates a brand-new object and (re)binds x to it.
> 

I had never heard of this pitfall, so I had to run it.

>>> id(x)
135374140
>>> id(y)
135321812
>>> id (x1)
135373676
>>> id(y1)
135373676

Stupid question: Is object 135321812 destroyed if I now run 

y += (4, 5, 6)

- Bryan


From christian.stockhammer at students.uni-linz.ac.at  Fri Nov  8 13:29:14 2002
From: christian.stockhammer at students.uni-linz.ac.at (Christian Stockhammer)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:29:14 +0100
Subject: thanks
Message-ID: <1036782982.862140@news.liwest.at>

thanks for your code, but can you tell me how you created your code? I have
absolutely no idea what it does

Many,many thanks




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Wed Nov  6 12:44:01 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:44:01 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <sA6q3WAW5Uy9Ew4K@jessikat.demon.co.uk>; from robin@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk on Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 05:16:06PM +0000
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com> <mailman.1036601108.23735.python-list@python.org> <sA6q3WAW5Uy9Ew4K@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20021106184401.X30315@prim.han.de>

Robin Becker wrote:
> In article <mailman.1036601108.23735.python-list at python.org>, holger
> krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes
> ......
> >I wonder if it would be possible to modify/extend the python-VM to allow for
> >"efficient" execution of C#.  We would be set, then, wouldn't we? 
> >
> >regards,
> >
> >    holger
> >
> I think the execution model of C# allows it to be jittable so unless
> python enters a restricted mode the C# will be quite slow. 

I am not sure i understand this.  Why does python need to enter
restricted mode?  

And doesn't PSYCO also do JIT-alike compiling?  That's at least how
i understood Armin.  As he also suggests to rewrite the python-core
in python to make it faster (with psyco) maybe this could help
with an c#-interpreter?  

wildly-guessing'ly yours,

    holger



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Nov  8 16:09:46 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:09:46 -0600 
Subject: An evangelist's handbook? (Was: Re: Making a better textbook)
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D03DFD@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: benalan at cs.bu.edu [mailto:benalan at cs.bu.edu]
> ...
> In my experience, the "encapsulation" problem is a significant hurdle.
> And it seems to me that folks who came to object-oriented programming
> from procedural programming seem to have a harder time overcoming the
> hurdle than those who have known only object-oriented programming.
> Strange.

But very true; I was proficient in Pascal and C by the time
I started using any OO language (C++ was my first, then Java,
then [urgh] Perl, and finally, Python).  While learning C++,
the toughest problem was changing my "world-view" of simply-
structured programming, into an effective "OO-world-view",
where objects interact among themselves without much
"procedural glue".

> 
> So, let's help folks get over this problem. If we could come up with
> some sound bites to offer potential converts, I think it would be of
> good use. 
>

"Give your data personality"
"Allow your information to think for itself"
"Let your data do the walking" (changed from the yellow pages bite)

> Alex was extrememly helpful in this regard, offering up
> tomes of information, as I recall. I will try to dig them out, if I
> have them, but I think we all would much rather hear it from the
> source (hint, hint). I have heard Guido say one of the reasons for
> default public access is that it was easier to implement. I think this
> argument is valid (probably more so than its simplicity might suggest)
> to a language designer, but it is not necessarily valid to a language
> adopter.

Maybe from a language design viewpoint it was easier to implemnt,
but also from a phylosophical and from a software-design viewpoint,
it's much saner than the "you and you, but not all yous" implementation
of Java and C++, and others.

> 
> Any other thoughts? For that matter, we could tackle any other issues
> (e.g., typing) that decision-makers might have problems with. I am
> soliciting evangelists, here, not debaters! There are enough of those
> threads....
>

:-)

-gustavo



From adeptus at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 24 17:46:30 2002
From: adeptus at earthlink.net (adeptus)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:46:30 GMT
Subject: Coaxing DWORD values out of a Binary file...
Message-ID: <aFcE9.8069$It3.814405@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

(in an attempt to write a utility to ginsu the data from Buzz .bm? files)
I'm loosing my mind trying to read DWORD values out of a binary file.

I've tried unpacking them via the struct module, (by passing them in as 4
byte strings) but the numbers I get don't seem to make any sense for the
file format...

Am I making a naive assumption about how VC++ would write a DWORD to a
binary file???

I'm also assuming that:
    (i386 centric)
    8-Bits = 1 Char = 1 Byte
    1 Word = 2 Bytes
    1 DWORD = 4 Bytes

What I'm asking is, what is proper officially pythonic way of accessing
DWORD values stored in a binary file by a VC++ program???

Both I and my sanity thank you in advance...
- adeptus -







From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Nov  6 21:54:42 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:54:42 -0500
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in
 Python 2.4 and up
In-Reply-To: <slrnasj332.v3h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEFLCHAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Jon Ribbens]
>...
> I don't really like the idea of hacking around with the warning
> module, so I guess I'll replace 0x80000000 with (-0x7fffffff-1) which
> won't generate a warning on any version of Python and will work on all
> versions... I think ;-)

You didn't answer the question about what you *intended* 0x80000000 to mean.
The answer to your question follows from that.  If you intended a 1 bit
followed by 31 zero bits, then, no, -0x7fffffff-1 doesn't mean that on some
platforms even today (or even in 1993, for that matter <wink>).




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 20 12:16:31 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:16:31 GMT
Subject: Howto wait for multiple queues (Queue.py)?
References: <mailman.1037810069.21157.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PrPC9.32685$744.1205279@news1.tin.it>

Andreas Ames wrote:

> as I prefer to use queues for interthread communication, I need

Queues are GREAT for interthread communication, BUT:

> something like a 'mainloop' for my threads in the sense that every
> thread can have multiple input queues and I want to be able to block

...this doesn't follow -- just make all requests to a thread onto
a single Queue (tag the requests with 'kind' or whatever as needed)
and live happily.  A Queue instance *IS* implicitly, automatically
and intrinsically "synchronized" -- several threads can be reading
and/or writing to the same Queue instance and you're guaranteed that
they'll never interfere with each other.  That's just about the
whole POINT of the Queue class.


Alex



From jpm at papercut.org  Mon Nov 11 23:41:48 2002
From: jpm at papercut.org (Joao Prado Maia)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:41:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [ANN] Papercut 0.9.4 - python nntp server
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211112337220.30004-100000@mercury.sabren.com>

Papercut is a multi-threaded news server written in Python. Its main
objective is to integrate existing web based message board software
(Phorum [http://phorum.org] is one of the supported ones) with an 
Usenet front-end.

However, its extensibility enables developers to write their own 
containers for the storage of the Usenet articles (messages). That means 
that the code is extensible enough that _you_ could write new containers 
to integrate the news server with other web message board projects or even
with other ways to store the messages.

The source code is available freely under the BSD license, which means you
can do whatever you like with it. I do welcome any and all contributions
to the project :)

A quick description of the changes on this release:

- A new caching module was added to the standard distribution, which 
should improve the performance of the server considerably. Also, more 
fixes were implemented and applied to the new phpBB storage module (which 
should still be considered in beta level). Once again Chip McClure was 
instrumental on providing assistance and help on testing these changes, 
and that is appreciated.

More information and download instructions can be found on the project 
site -> http://papercut.org

Cheers,
Joao Prado Maia





From gumuz at looze.net  Wed Nov 13 04:44:29 2002
From: gumuz at looze.net (Gumuz)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:44:29 +0100
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <3dd21d41$0$234$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

ok, don't kno _why_ i missed it, but boa-constructor seems to be changing my
mind :)



"Gumuz" <gumuz at looze.net> wrote in message
news:3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net...
> sorry guys/girls, but i had to vent this :)
>
>
> i am using wxPython at the moment as my python gui. Coming from a nice IDE
> like Delphi it's really frustrating to get a nice layout together. I tried
> some tools. The one i liked most, because of it's simplicity was wxGlade,
> but still... it's not there yet. I might have missed something here and I
> don't want to complain, but I think that a good, robust gui-designer will
> open up a lot of posibilities for python. i might give it a shot!
>
> thanks,
> guyon
>
>




From benc1 at today.com.au  Wed Nov  6 18:28:14 2002
From: benc1 at today.com.au (Ben C)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 15:28:14 -0800
Subject: calldll question
References: <3DC847D5.60908@ihug.co.nz> <Xns92BE457940F3cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <8beb91f5.0211061528.6dca4d79@posting.google.com>

Have you looked at ctypes at all? Makes life a lot simpler and has
decent documentation ...

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes.html


From claird at lairds.com  Wed Nov 13 10:03:58 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:03:58 -0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DD11E7F.C12E708A@man.ac.uk> <3DD16F04.517E6720@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ut4qeu2pg9fpde@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3DD16F04.517E6720 at earthlink.net>,
Benjamin Goldberg  <goldbb2 at earthlink.net> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Thinking a bit more, particularly about how Tcl often needs to interpret
>strings at runtime, I realize that no non-trivial Tcl program can work
>without having a string-to-bytecode compiler.  Needless to say, this
			.
			.
			.
Tangential remark:  yes, in the sense that Tcl is just
a big 'ole macro processor, where everything is a string.
Sure, at that level, Tcl is constantly interpreting strings,
in a way that seems creepy from a Perl perspective.  Perl's
executable references correspond in Tcl to "scripts" (most
often) which appear as callbacks to [after], [bind], 
[fileevent], and so on.

On the other hand, at the level of application development,
working programmers should *not* be doing much of the [eval]
kind of string interpretation that once was thought necessary
style in Tcl, as well as Lisp and very few other languages.
Source code should look straightforward and plenty
procedural, and, in general, will not "interpret strings" 
after a first round of bytecode compilation.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From ark at research.att.com  Mon Nov 18 18:32:10 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:32:10 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <yu99isyujyrc.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <wgeC9.17350$0U1.1713575@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <yu99d6p2a1z9.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

>> Instead, (a, b) >= (c, d) is defined as (a>c or (a==c and b>=d)).

Richard> I just keep reading that again and again and thinking "WTF?
Richard> Why? Wha...."

Because that way it's an order relation.

Think of it as testing whether a word beginning with the letters
contained in "a" and "b" should come after a word beginning with
the letters contained in "c" and "d" in a dictionary.

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From antonmuhin at rambler.ru  Fri Nov 29 09:56:51 2002
From: antonmuhin at rambler.ru (=?ISO-8859-1?B?YW50b25tdWhpbiDt4CByYW1ibGVyLnJ1?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:56:51 +0300
Subject: Windows locale: default charset
In-Reply-To: <20021129141801.26007.24999.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021129141801.26007.24999.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <2518967273.20021129175651@rambler.ru>

Dear Pythonists!

Does anybody know how to solve the following problem:

I want to find out default Windows charset to perform
encoding/decoding of Unicode strings.

locale module seems of no help---nl_langinfo function that could
provide me with needed info isn't included in ActiveState Python 2.2.
I found no similar functions in win extensions modules either.

May anybody point me info or snippets?

Best regards,
Anton.




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov 27 00:21:26 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:21:26 -0500
Subject: the real .pyc file
References: <mailman.1038246454.8932.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE45656.AFCBD01B@engcorp.com>

Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:
> 
> Yes, I was bored.. ;-)
> 
> int
> a=1//1;main=lambda:1
> +1;
> #define a
> int
> main()
> {a//a:a};import sys;printf=sys.stdout.write
> printf("Hello world!\n");a//a;{
> }

Nice! :-)  I think I can safely say this is the first truly
obfuscated Python code that I've seen.  The funny thing is 
that the obfuscation primarily hides the fact that it even
*is* Python, because you can "of course" tell what it does
just by looking at it (if you know C).

I had to run it to be sure it would even execute as Python.  
(Using a syntax highlighting editor sure helps readability 
though, versus reading it in plain ASCII in Netscape.)

-Peter


From fgeiger at datec.at  Mon Nov  4 12:10:55 2002
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:10:55 +0100
Subject: stupid Wing IDE question
References: <4cce07d5.0211040647.3f479956@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3dc6aa3c@news.swissonline.ch>

In the editor: Project -> Properties -> Start new console.

Cheers
Franz GEIGER


"animeshk" <animeshk at yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4cce07d5.0211040647.3f479956 at posting.google.com...
> I'm brand new to Python, and I downloaded and am trying the Wing IDE
> (ver 1.1.6, I believe).  I have a stupid question, however.
>
> I put in a simple Python script with a few print statements.  Say:
>
> print "Hello world"
> print "Hi there"
> print "Whatever"
>
> Now, I run it.  It runs, and then . . . it's done.  Ummmm . . .
> shouldn't there be a window somewhere displaying the stuff I told it
> to print?  Some kind of "output" window?  Even when I single step
> through the program, there doesn't seem to be an "output" window
> anywhere (it doesn't even open a console window).
>
> Is this feature available in the Wing IDE?  If so, how do I access it?
>  Thanks!




From duncan at rcp.co.uk  Wed Nov 27 09:20:00 2002
From: duncan at rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:20:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92D390916BFBBduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>

malik m <malik_martin at hotmail.com> wrote in news:r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d at 4ax.com:

> hi yea i messed up here's the code sorry about the html too i was
> using it through hotmail while i learnd and still am learning how to
> use newsgroups....

You still need to figure out how to stop your posting word-wrapping when
you post long lines of Python. Mind you, so do most of us.

> 
> #chapter 3 test control structures 3.3
> print "hello, this program will tell me how many miles per gallon your
> car drives by the \n amount of miles entered by the user along with
> the size of his/her tank."
You could write this more clearly using a triple quoted string:

print '''hello, this program will tell me how many miles per gallon
your car drives by the amount of miles entered by the user along with
the size of his/her tank.'''

> 
> #initialize variables
> totalMilesDriven = 0 #total miles driven
> 
> totalGallonsPerTank = 0 #total gallons per tank
> 
> counter = 0 #bogus counter
> 
> #processing phase
> gallonsPerTank = raw_input("Enter how many gallons your tank holds, -1
> to end:")
> gallonsPerTank = int(gallonsPerTank)
> 
> milesDriven = raw_input("enter how many miles driven, -1 to end:")
> milesDriven = int(milesDriven)
> 
> while gallonsPerTank or milesDriven != -1:

I think you meant:
   while gallonsPerTank != -1 or milesDriven != -1:

>     averagea = milesDriven / gallonsPerTank
>     counter = counter + 1
>     print "your miles per gallon are", averagea
>     totalMilesDriven = totalMilesDriven + milesDriven
>     totalGallonsPerTank = totalGallonsPerTank + gallonsPerTank
>     gallonsPerTank = raw_input("Enter how many gallons your tank
> holds, -1 to end:")
>     milesDriven = raw_input("enter how many miles driven, -1 to end:")

You forgot to convert the input to integers this time round.
> 
> #termination phase
> if counter != 0:
>     average = float( totalMilesDriven ) / float( totalGallonsPerTank )
>     print "The total miles per gallon is", average
> else:
>     print "No data entered"
> 



From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Sun Nov  3 12:29:36 2002
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:29:36 +0000
Subject: pyqt rules
In-Reply-To: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <200211031729.36866.phil@river-bank.demon.co.uk>

On Sunday 03 November 2002 4:39 pm, Rob Hall wrote:
> Well I've been tinkering with pyqt for a few days now.  I must say it is
> excellent.
>
> Developing a gui takes next to no time!  And I love the signal/slot
> mechanism.
>
> Piec of cake!!

http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3_preview_en.html should make it even 
easier.

Phil



From hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com  Tue Nov 12 10:20:14 2002
From: hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:20:14 GMT
Subject: p2exe and ZODB
References: <mailman.1037086935.1221.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xqxy97yx1ap.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Etienne Labuschagne <ELabuschane at gmsonline.co.za> writes:

> Hi there,
> 
> First, an apology, my M$ Outlook INSISTS on sending HTML-spew, even though I
> have all settings I can find on Text only and the status bar says Plain Text
> :(
> 
> I gather from the context of my message that you also only have this problem
> under Py2EXE (does Py2EXE work at all on *Nix?).  If not, it's quite strange
> as ZODB works perfectly in a normal Python environment for me - it's just
> doing strange things when working in a py2exe environment.  I have just
> started investigating McMillan's installer product, but have had no luck so
> far in getting it to wrap ZODB.  If I can get it to work, I'll post the
> solution.

False alarm.  My problem was I had recursively included the ZODB
storage, conn, dbroot, userdb in the items to be saved in the userdb.
That apparently triggered the errors.  It had nothing to do with
py2exe (which is just a windows issue).

[snip]

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757


From Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com  Sat Nov  9 19:22:13 2002
From: Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:22:13 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9b8hqa.eo3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqhmib$ei8$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <eppstein-DC177C.17122508112002@news.service.uci.edu> <roy-972F14.21171008112002@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasr9ll.267f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>

Roy Smith wrote:

>  That being said, I agree with David; only a computer scientist 
>  interested in language theory would consider Python and Lisp to be 
>  similar.

Q: If you want to find out how similar two languages are,
   what sort of person should you consult?

A: A computer scientist interested in language theory.

:-)

-- 
Gareth McCaughan  Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com
.sig under construc


From clpy at snakefarm.org  Thu Nov  7 11:07:31 2002
From: clpy at snakefarm.org (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:07:31 +0100
Subject: Times and dates
References: <aqe176$r9t$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <aqe343$9kd$1@news.schlund.de>

YorizZ wrote:

> I know that i can create a string from a date with strtime(date), but not
> the other way around..

strptime() may be your friend if your platform supports it:


Python 2.2 (#1, Apr 12 2002, 15:29:57)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.2 2.96-109)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import time
 >>> time.strptime("2002-11-07", "%Y-%m-%d")
(2002, 11, 7, 0, 0, 0, 3, 311, 0)
 >>> time.asctime(time.strptime("2002-11-07", "%Y-%m-%d"))
'Thu Nov  7 00:00:00 2002'
 >>>


cg.



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 19 12:17:58 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 17:17:58 GMT
Subject: classifier systems re-coded in Python?
References: <mailman.1037681306.8796.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ardro6$ot6$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:31:53 -0800, Kow K <kowk at earthlink.net> wrote:

>On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 07:11 , Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>>> I'm just wondering if anybody has re-coded David Goldberg's Pascal
>>> implementation of John Holland's (learning) classifier system in
>> Python.
>>>
>>> Any pointer will be appreciated.
>>
>> try:
>>   google('Holland learning classifier Python')
>
>Yes, I did a Google search before posting here, but I didn't get really 
>relevant threads.
>
See if this google search pattern leads you to something. Don't give up so easily.
Remember that google looks for exact word matches, so try alternate words and combinations.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=holland+learning+%28classifier+OR+classify%29+python

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From rmunn at pobox.com  Mon Nov 11 02:50:57 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:50:57 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasuojg.l14.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> I'm certainly amazed at the tolerance people have for questions that are 
> readily answered in a number of on-line tutorials, and in both the Python 
> books that I have (Learning Python and the Python Cookbook). In the end, the 
> friendly attitude may be the killer feature.

Out of curiosity, do you think a response like: "That's covered in the
Python tutorial -- look at [URL]" will strike a newbie as friendly or
not? I ask because that's the kind of answer I will tend to write when
I'm in a hurry. Sometimes I will take the time to phrase the answer in
my own words, but often I won't want to duplicate the work that someone
else has already done in writing that tutorial. So if you were a newbie
getting a curt response like that, would you feel it was a brushoff, or
would you feel like your question had been answered?

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Nov 16 09:29:44 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:29:44 -0600
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
In-Reply-To: <ar4rgh$nj2$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <ar4rgh$nj2$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20021116082934.A1515@unpythonic.net>

> In article <aqrig4$d2h$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> >Here's a toy example. I just want to make a function that efficiently
> >uses (here just returns) something from a module. 
> 
On Sat, Nov 16, 2002 at 02:18:41AM -0500, Aahz wrote:
> Can you explain a bit more clearly what the purpose of this?

Speed, I assume.

f0 0.945003986359	# empty loop
f1 2.456807971		# math.pi
f2 1.20684301853	# (local) pi

LOAD_FAST is bound to be faster than LOAD_GLOBAL + LOAD_ATTR.

Jeff


import math, time

R = range(1000000)
def f0():
    for i in R: pass

def f1():
    for i in R: math.pi

def f2(pi=math.pi):
    for i in R: pi

for f in (f0, f1, f2):
    t0 = time.time()
    f()
    t1 = time.time()
    print f.__name__, t1-t0



From mikael at isy.liu.se  Tue Nov 19 09:36:42 2002
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:36:42 +0100
Subject: read from user
In-Reply-To: <mOrC9.1963$8E1.35905@news4.e.nsc.no>
References: <mOrC9.1963$8E1.35905@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <20021119153642.539d4188.mikael@isy.liu.se>

Hi P?l!

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:22:11 +0100
"P?l Sindre Hi?sen" <sindrehi at c2i.net> wrote:
> Is there somthing i have to think about when i write code who ask for
> input from user?
> I tried this:
> antall = input('some instruction ') #read a int
> for i in range(10):
>     L[i]= raw_input('write names ')    #read string
> 
> What is wrong??

Did you not get an error traceback? When I tried that in the interactive
shell, I got 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in ?
NameError: name 'L' is not defined

after typing in the for loop. It simply tells you that there is no
variable called L. What you need to do is to initiate L as an empty list
before entering the loop.

HTH
/Mikael

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From thehugonline at yahoo.de  Tue Nov 12 09:45:40 2002
From: thehugonline at yahoo.de (HugOnline)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 06:45:40 -0800
Subject: Newbie-list-problem: how to supress constraining  2 lists - a=b ?
References: <813cfe33.0211080235.5d4b8c9e@posting.google.com> <slrnasoos8.ksn.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <813cfe33.0211120645.58d43ae8@posting.google.com>

Thanks a lot for your answers. Now I understand these names are only
pointers! I didn't know that !!!!

Thanks a lot !!!

Regards

HugOnline


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 22 09:01:30 2002
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 06:01:30 -0800
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <areqd3$vrp$1@ins22.netins.net> <3DDAFA97.92B70465@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org> <3DDB3373.2578CEC0@alcyone.com> <8ef9bea6.0211201119.2f846d0c@posting.google.com> <JxqdnQqI-cZFnEGgXTWcqA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0211220601.4c92d43e@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<JxqdnQqI-cZFnEGgXTWcqA at comcast.com>...
> "Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > Well, the thing is that Python works with "name binding". And the
> > concepts of name spaces, name binding, objects, mutability, etc. are
> > just a bit non-obvious.
> 
> I somewhat disagree.  

A few days ago National Geographic Society released a survey report.
Surprisingly or not, only about 13 percent of college age (18-24)
young people in the USA were able point out Iraq on a map. And as if
that were not depressing enough, 11 percent of them couldn't even find
their own country (U.S.A.) on a map. That's a sobering reality check.
(European countries like Sweden and Germany did much better, but the
figures still were below what people would normally expect.)

It is OK to fantasize the easiness that beginners can understand how
Python work. But it is also good to keep a reality check. People have
faces and names. That's why I selected an example from a start. Please
look over Mr. Erik Max Francis' comments again (and trace to the
original thread.) And tell me why he made the comments he made. (Of
course I am not saying he is right, in fact, anyone who knows Python
well won't agree with his comments. I am simply keeping a reality
check.) Having taught thousands of students before in my life, I tend
to get into other people's mindset and try to understand where they
are coming from, be them right or wrong.

Unfortunately, this kind of reality check you can see daily in the
Python newsgroup, and in real-life work place, too.

> How is mutability non-obvious?  

I am not saying it's non-obvious per se. I am saying you have to check
on people with names and faces, instead of doing speculations.

> >Maybe it's just
> > me, but I have been horrified by programmers writing a few lines of
> > code, without realizing their few lines of code can actually have
> > severe impact on the RAM or the harddrive.
> 
> Impact on the RAM?  Are you talking about merely filling things up
> with data (easily reversible) or something possibly more damaging,
> like thrashing a drive for hours on end?  Or erasing unbacked data?
> Certainly, people should not learn to open a file (open() or file())
> or access the os (os.system()) without also being taught the possible
> dangers. 

Let me ask you, just in case you totally missed the point. Is it
possible for a program to severely hit the harddrive without the
programmer writing any code on file operation?

-----------------------

My message was simply that Python has a place in
colleges/universities. But I believe that teachers out there are
erring in their direction. There is very limited time in a 2-year
Master's program, and how to capitalize Python's potential in a short
period of time is crucial. Today's programmers need to know all kinds
of things like regular expressions, TCP/IP socket, web programming,
application servers, e-mail protocols (SMTP/IMAP/POP), database,
encryption, COM, XML processing, exception handling, multi-thread
programming, UI (user-interface) design, multimedia
programming/processing, build/install systems, etc. etc. and much
more. Python is excellent choice for a workshop course to cover these
topics. I believe that's where the full firepower of Python is. In
today's programming world, you don't need to use any of these skills
on a daily basis, but you've gotta know where to start.

regards,

Hung Jung


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Nov 25 08:37:30 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:37:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Iteration of strings
References: <DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489@news010.worldonline.dk> <mailman.1038008911.28064.python-list@python.org> <3DE0DDEA.1B87D457@hotmail.com> <Xns92D17209D4294duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <5foE9.51931$744.1901461@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <Xns92D18A77A2AA6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

On 25 Nov 2002, you wrote in comp.lang.python::

>> def dont_allow_string_argument(v):
>>     for t in types.StringTypes:
>>        assert not isinstance(v, t)
> 
> loop unneeded in recent Python versions (at least since 2.2.1 -- no
> older one around to check, sorry):
> 
>>>> import types
>>>> isinstance('ciao', types.StringTypes)
> 1
>>>> isinstance(23, types.StringTypes)
> 0
>>>>

Its that darn time machine again!

Even though I glanced at the docstring for isinstance before posting, it 
failed to register that Python, as usual, implements isinstance in the most 
helpful way possible.

Thanks

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From usenet at imperialviolet.org  Mon Nov 25 05:32:51 2002
From: usenet at imperialviolet.org (Adam Langley)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:32:51 +0000
Subject: python and xchat
References: <arrehc$h7u$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.25.10.32.51.165209@imperialviolet.org>

On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:58:28 +0000, **IQ** wrote:

> Hello
>  With my xchat coming as standard with my suse install and me being new to 
> python and linux, I have no way of knowing if xchat comes configured as 
> standard to run python scripts.

Look under the "Scripts and Plugin's" menu for "Load Python Script". If
it's there then X-Chat has Python configured.

> If it does and all's  I nead is a xchat module so I can do an, import xchat, 
> within my scripts, were would I get the xchat module, so I could install it 
> into python.

There isn't an "xchat" module as such, but X-Chat creates a pseudo module
that only exists for scripts running in xchat. The documentation in
scripts-python/NOTES should tell you everything you need to know. It's a
little old, but I don't think anyone has touched my code so it's still
up-to-date (even if it has my email address wrong).

>  Could somebody please advise me, I tried a basic /sysinfo script made out 
> of python source, which I placed in my ./xchat dir, and it didnt work.
> Also upon my xhat tool bar, were it says scripts and plugins, the perl 
> option, ie, load perl script, is clickable, but the python option is not, 
> and is shaded out? why is this?

If it's shaded out then I suspect that SuSE's X-Chat build doesn't have
python support included. Grab the sources from http://xchat.org and build
yourself, passing the correct options to ./configure ("--with-python" if
memory serves).



From tismer at tismer.com  Mon Nov 18 14:24:06 2002
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:24:06 +0100
Subject: Berliner Python-Stammtisch 20.12.02 18:00 mit Stollen
References: <2E7096CE-E74E-11D6-8765-00039345C610@darwin.in-berlin.de> <E184hTu-0007pL-00@starship.python.net> <3DB915CB.5080908@tismer.com> <3DBD58CD.2080606@tismer.com> <mailman.1037625092.11246.python-list@python.org> <arbdvm$h0j$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <3DD93E56.9060401@tismer.com>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:12:25 +0100, Christian Tismer
> <tismer at tismer.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>... zur Ergreifung weiterer unidentifizierter Pythonen ...
> 
> 
> Ist mann im Kreis Aachen noch einigermassen sicher? :-)

Absolutely not. You are very welcome :-)

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From soufle at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 07:24:54 2002
From: soufle at yahoo.com (noyb)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:24:54 GMT
Subject: Complex numbers, abs results in mag, what results in phase?
References: <071120021741272463%soufle@yahoo.com> <y9Cy9.3877$Bs5.116582@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <081120020724547965%soufle@yahoo.com>

In article <y9Cy9.3877$Bs5.116582 at news1.tin.it>, Alex Martelli
<aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

> noyb wrote:
> 
> > I realize the angle is atan(b,a) but I need to use my_complex_variable
> > as input and not a,b.
> 
> import math
> def phase(mcv):
>     return math.atan2(mcv.imag, mcv.real)
> 
> I don't think there's any Python built-in that does this.
> 
> 
> Alex
> 

Hi Alex,

Thank you!

Since I am a neophyte to Python, I was spending to much time looking
for a command.  This seems obvious now!

Thanx again,

David


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov  8 20:58:33 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 01:58:33 GMT
Subject: Questions about tuple?
References: <mailman.1036801694.17667.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqhq49$r9t$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:27:11 -0800 (PST), Mindy <csshi99 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Hey, given a tuple t(a,b), is there any function in
>Python that I can get a, b individually from t?
>Actually, I have a list whose element is tuples. Say:
>
>tuple_list = [(1,'a'),(3,'b'),(2,'l'),(8,'p')]
>
>Then I want to get two lists from this tuple_list. The
>first list contains the first elements in the tuple of
>the tuple_list. 
>
>first_list = [1,3,2,8]
>
>And the second list contains all the second elements,
>also maintaining the original order as in tuple_list.
>
>second_list = ['a','b','l','p']
>
>So how to get this easily? Thanks!
>
This sounds like homework. Is it?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From cmkleffner at gmx.de  Thu Nov 28 07:11:40 2002
From: cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 04:11:40 -0800
Subject: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
References: <3DE4448E.5080201@attglobal.net> <mailman.1038388238.11306.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b091a1c.0211280411.7ee5443a@posting.google.com>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1038388238.11306.python-list at python.org>...
> On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 22:05, Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> > What I'd like to be able to do is implement a complete GUI-based control 
> > application (with buttons, slider, whatever widgets the app needs) 
> > accessible over the web.
> 
> If you confine yourself to HTML widgets (which does not includes
> sliders, for instance), this is obviously possible -- that's what forms
> are, after all.  If you want widgets beyond what's available in HTML
> (either more responsive/interactive, or simply widgets HTML doesn't
> have, like decent file selection), then you will have to either code up
> a Java applet (potentially in Jython), or write a client application.
> 
> If you write a client application, you can use whatever Python GUI you
> want (Tkinter, wxWindows, etc).  You may wish to communicate to the
> server using XMLRPC.  For something more advanced you could use Pyro
> (pyro.sf.net) or another distributed object system (of which there are
> several).
> 
> There's many examples of XMLRPC servers for Python, and many of the
> Python web frameworks contain XMLRPC support.  You should be able to
> integrate XMLRPC into your web server system, though I'd encourage you
> to consider using a framework.  To choose a framework, see:
>   http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming

Another attempt I know was scgui (partly python powered), see
http://groups.google.de/groups?q=scgui&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=MPG.15ba35e0db757ae3989ba7%40news.earthlink.net&rnum=1
to build a server side controlled client gui via http.

Just another thing is JAPI (www.japi.de) which was build to get a 
platform independent gui for legacy applications 
(C and fortran based scientific applications in mind). 
But JAPI can also be seen as a server controlled
gui as it is a Java based display demon on the client side 
with all the application code run on the server connected
 via http. The application library code is written in ANSI C, 
so it should be easily swigable.

Just my few Euro Cents

Carl


From syver at osiris.no  Fri Nov  8 04:32:51 2002
From: syver at osiris.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:32:51 GMT
Subject: RecordSet (ADO) with stored procs
References: <9seiru8fasolrqd9ntpgb0pp0lsl7fr83c@4ax.com> <usmypuo6k.fsf@online.no> <k7k1jc4x.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Xns92B7842247874robjohnrichardcouk@192.168.0.246> <u65vilgqd.fsf@online.no> <8360efcd.0211050131.6fe89e3a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uheesxv7w.fsf@osiris.no>

tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden) writes:

> [...] snip very useful ADO db module [...]
> 
> Looks great, Syver. Could I just ask, tho', where does one get hold of
> the utilities module on line 5?
> 
> > from utilities import Indexed

Ouch! sorry about that.

> 
> Or, alternatively, what's the definition of the Indexed function it
> exposes?

It's stolen from the Python cookbook on ActiveState's site.

def Indexed(sequence):
    """ Paralell looping on sequence item and index
    stolen from Alex Martelli Python Cookbook
   
    Usage:
    
    for item, index in Indexed(sequence):
        doStuff(item, index)
    
    """ 
    class Index:
        def __getitem__(self, i):
            return i
    return zip(sequence, Index())



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 27 12:44:43 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 09:44:43 -0800
Subject: Get yesterday's date
In-Reply-To: <3de49b30$0$20703$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <3de49b30$0$20703$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1038419083.21793.74.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Wed, 2002-11-27 at 02:15, Michel COMBE wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I need to run a SQL query on a MySQL database to get yesterday's records.
> How do I specify "yesterday" ?
> Isn't there some kind of date arithmetic in Python or should I use an
> external library ?
> Which library ?

Why not just use MySQL's built in date/time functions?

SELECT * FROM mytable WHERE TO_DAYS(mydatefield) = TO_DAYS(NOW() -
INTERVAL 1 DAY);

Haven't used MySQL in a while, but I think this (or something similar)
should work.


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov  1 17:12:57 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Nov 2002 23:12:57 +0100
Subject: threading questions
References: <apvrd4$a5b$1@ocasysi.rubbernet.net>
Message-ID: <m37kfxlz12.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Oleg Leschov <kalmas at udm.ru> writes:

> 1. I want to be able, using whatever the threading.get_ident()
> returns (perhaps), to determine the state of thread (does it still
> run or not), and to kill the thread, in case that it, for example,
> is waiting for some data from socket whose network interface has
> died unexpectedly.

Python does not support thread cancellation.

> For now I rely on the behavior of linux, where when main thread
> quits, all its children threads are also being killed. But to me, it
> would be nicer to kill them by hand..

You would need to implement this yourself, although I recommend to
find a solution that works without that. I.e. maintain a list of
running threads yourself, and you won't need to find out whether a
thread is still running. Only use non-blocking operations for the
network if you expect blocking operations to block for an unacceptable
long amount of time.


> 2. I want to process user interrupt (ctrl-c), which does not work at
> all while running multiple threads, by setting some event so that
> main thread would quit.  How do I register handler for this?

Ctrl-c should work fine, and should show up as a keyboard interrupt in
the main thread.

Regards,
Martin


From bobx at linuxmail.org  Sun Nov  3 21:01:19 2002
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Bob X)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 02:01:19 GMT
Subject: Book recommendation please
References: <1036349092.40578.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net> <LAex9.66857$aL4.2045429@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <Pxkx9.42038$Lg2.11444037@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:LAex9.66857$aL4.2045429 at news1.tin.it...
<snip>
> Be warned -- I'm biased, having been a technical reviewer for both
> books (only for the first half, i.e., examples excluded, in the
> case of "Practical Python"), and being friend with each of the two
> authors (each kindly reciprocated my reviewing, by serving in turn
> as technical reviewers for my "Python in a Nutshell").

And "Python in a Nutshell" is coming out....when?   : )

Bob




From mgilfix at eecs.tufts.edu  Sat Nov 30 21:14:21 2002
From: mgilfix at eecs.tufts.edu (Michael Gilfix)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:14:21 -0500
Subject: How to install with -O?
In-Reply-To: <slrnaui7ca.sd.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
References: <mailman.1038511660.30945.python-list@python.org> <as6dvn$6gt$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1038601365.18263.python-list@python.org> <slrnaui7ca.sd.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20021201021421.GI13460@eecs.tufts.edu>

  Yes, I'm aware. But that requires users of python software
to be aware as well.

On Sat, Nov 30 @ 16:30, Wojtek Walczak wrote:
> Dnia Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:20:59 -0500, Michael Gilfix napisa?(a):
> >   Hi Aahz. So, I can just set the PYTHONOPTIMIZE variable in my
> > setup.py and python will take care of itself (both in unix n'
> > windows)? Perhaps I should work on a distutils patch...
> You should set that variable in your shell, not in setup.py.
> 
> -- 
> [ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
> [ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Michael Gilfix
mgilfix at eecs.tufts.edu

For my gpg public key:
http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~mgilfix/contact.html



From haering_postgresql at gmx.de  Thu Nov 21 04:55:32 2002
From: haering_postgresql at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-15?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 09:55:32 GMT
Subject: def hook?
References: <arh7gc$pj8$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrnatpb9u.bu.haering_postgresql@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Roy Smith wrote in comp.lang.python:
> I'd like to have a bit of code run every time a function is defined.

I dont't think you can execute code upon function definition. But if
we're talking about methods, metaclasses could come in useful. They're
described at www.python.org -> Python 2.2 -> New style classes. (Damn,
where is "peek URL" in lynx?!).

-- Gerhard


From imbosol at vt.edu  Fri Nov  8 18:25:42 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:25:42 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9b8hqa.eo3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <aqhmib$ei8$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> Oleg fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 08 November 2002 04:54 am:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
>> between Python and Common Lisp (
>> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
>> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
>>
>        I have to wonder about any paper that describes Python as being like 
> LISP except with in-fix notation...


Python is more like Lisp than most other languages, though.  It's
similar semantically.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Wed Nov 13 04:26:08 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 09:26:08 GMT
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <slrnat46lh.36a.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Gumuz wrote in comp.lang.python:
> sorry guys/girls, but i had to vent this :)
> 
> 
> i am using wxPython at the moment as my python gui. Coming from a nice IDE
> like Delphi it's really frustrating to get a nice layout together. I tried
> some tools. The one i liked most, because of it's simplicity was wxGlade,
> but still... it's not there yet. I might have missed something here and I
> don't want to complain, but I think that a good, robust gui-designer will
> open up a lot of posibilities for python. i might give it a shot!

I think you should try out the Qt Designer/PyQt combo. Buying
Blackadder might still be the cheapest option to get the necessary Qt
license for Windows for (non-Open Source) commercial apps.

-- Gerhard


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 18:56:03 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:56:03 +0000
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net> <idf5gXAQ3p29EwJo@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <n0o547l3.fsf@python.net> <++UOYJA+sq29EwYj@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <roPrtXAT+s29Ew7m@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <++UOYJA+sq29EwYj at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>, Robin Becker
<robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>In article <n0o547l3.fsf at python.net>, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net>
>.....
>
>I'm being stupid you really need a .lib for linking to the ctypes
>extension. I'll have to see if I can get my rather poor mingw to do
>that. Haven't had much success with the .dll either. The cygwin build
>was a nightmare as I recall with libtool etc etc :(
Thomas can't you use distutils with cygwin? Looked in cygwincompiler and
it says
 .....  It also contains
the Mingw32CCompiler class which handles the mingw32 port of GCC (same
as cygwin in no-cygwin mode).

I seem to remember using this with calldll once. The main problem was
getting the right .a file for representing libpython22.
-- 
Robin Becker


From dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de  Fri Nov  8 14:37:50 2002
From: dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de (Joerg Woelke)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 20:37:50 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9ROy9.7069$8P5.4238@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <87y984avx2.fsf@theasylum.dyndns.org> <aqgrib$q4$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <87smycaq5d.fsf@theasylum.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3DCC128E.E3B331D1@felis.uni-freiburg.de>

Hi!

Tim Lavoie wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "Eddie" == Eddie Corns <eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk> writes:
> 
>     Eddie> Tim Lavoie <tool_man at spamcop.net> writes:
>     >> I still haven't figured out how to slide some Intercal in at
>     >> work though...  :)
> 
>     Eddie> Intercal! don't be such a wuss - have a look at
>     Eddie> http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/madore/programs/unlambda/
> 
> Heheh. Yeah, that's even better. I checked out the Fibonacci example:
> 
> ```s``s``sii`ki
>   `k.*``s``s`ks
>  ``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk
>   `k``s`ksk

[ snip ]

*ROTFL*
You may have a look at brainfuck:
"http://koeln.ccc.de/projekte/brainfuck/index-e.html"
You gonna like it.

<quote>
Brainfuck is an incredibly easy to learn and incredibly annoying to
program in language, most probably created around 1993. Its author is
Urban M?ller from Switzerland, who also wrote the
original interpreter for brainfuck and a compiler for the Amiga. 
</quote>

HTH, J"o!

-- 
sigfault


From fdsdfs at dasdsa.com  Thu Nov  7 11:20:00 2002
From: fdsdfs at dasdsa.com (ffdsfdsfds)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:20:00 +0100
Subject: variable name lookup
References: <aqdtbk$311f$1@vishnu.jussieu.fr> <Xwvy9.3694$XO.135820@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aqe3vl$3bs$1@vishnu.jussieu.fr>

<posted & mailed>

Thank you very much for the answer. I was suspecting something
like that... 

You're right, I'd better forget it because the speed loss would
be too high if I patch this.

                        Sylvain B.


From mwh at python.net  Mon Nov 25 08:36:39 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:36:39 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <arm1p0$pk9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <arm854$1ue2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <mailman.1038016601.6798.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3of8dsrkj.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> writes:

> The term 'strict' has another antonym that is probably more useful:
> 'lazy'.

But I think in technical pointy-eared CS speak, 'lazy' has a technical
meaning that differs slightly from what Haskell does.

I used to know the difference, but I've forgotten; something like lazy
means you evaluate a subexpression *each* time its value is used?
Haskell doesn't do that.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them
  down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
                                                        -- Jack Handey


From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 28 05:03:23 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:03:23 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <7h3u1i5sxx2.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <20021128000233.S11257@prim.han.de> <mailman.1038445552.25155.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3vg2iow0t.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Chad Netzer <cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:

> On Wednesday 27 November 2002 15:02, holger krekel wrote:
> > Michael Hudson wrote:
> > > For what it's worth (not much) I'm forever writing
> > >
> > > for k, v in d:
> > >     ....
> > >
> > > I can see the arguments for consistency, but I think this is my most
> > > reliable Python error at the moment.
> >
> > TypeError: unpack non-sequence
> >
> > is also my number one "basic" error i am producing.
> 
> The way it works just seems natural to me:
> 
> Python 2.2.2 (#1, Nov 21 2002, 08:18:14)
> >>> d = [ (1,2), (3,4) ]
> >>> for x,y in d:
> ...  print "x,y: ", x, y
> ...
> x,y:  1 2
> x,y:  3 4
> 

Holger and I are talking about d being a dict!

Don't the letters k, v and d mean /anything/ to you? <wink>

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Ability to type on a computer terminal is no guarantee of sanity,
  intelligence, or common sense. 
                                 -- Gene Spafford's Axiom #2 of Usenet


From stuart.191 at ntlworld.com  Sat Nov  2 15:38:11 2002
From: stuart.191 at ntlworld.com (Stuart MacGregor)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 20:38:11 +0000
Subject: Tkinter in RH8.0
References: <ArCw9.2407$072.107557@newsfep2-gui> <pan.2002.11.02.13.07.24.183824@goodweb.de>
Message-ID: <fJWw9.697$sS5.88294@newsfep2-gui>

Thomas Korb wrote:

> On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 21:33:41 +0000, Stuart MacGregor wrote:
> 
>> 
>> After installing RH8 the apps find 'from Tkinter import *' does not work.
>> RH 8 ships with python 2.2.1 and I have installed every shipped rpm that
>> might help.
>> 
> 
> I am also using Python 2.2.1 w/ Tkinter on RH 8.0 and have no
> problems at all. (Many of my apps use 'from Tkinter import *' etc.)
> 
> Are you sure you really did install all necessary RPMs?
> 
> When installing RH 8.0, I did not use one of the predefined
> setups like 'Personal Desktop' or 'Workstation', but did a
> customized install. So I do not know if Tcl, Tk, Tix and
> Tkinter will be installed when you use a predefined setup.
> (You know that you need Tcl/Tk for Tkinter, don't you? And
> RH 8.0 wants Tix to be installed together with Tk.)
> 
> It might be helpful to post your exact error-message (traceback).
> 
Thanks for the reply, and offer of hope of a simple resolution. I did use a 
workstation install, and then added all the possible related entries in the 
new redhat-config-packages tool.  Checking the rpms gives: -
$ rpm -q tk
tk-8.3.3-74
$ rpm -q tcl
tcl-8.3.3-74
$ rpm -q python
python-2.2.1-17
I understand Tkinter is integrated with the python distribution and does not 
require an rpm.

Runnung python gives: -
$ python
Python 2.2.1 (#1, Aug 30 2002, 12:15:30)
[GCC 3.2 20020822 (Red Hat Linux Rawhide 3.2-4)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from Tkinter import *
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named Tkinter
>>>

I'll brows around the rpms directly, but if you have any ideas I would be 
glad of them.

Cheers
-- 
Stuart


From christian at becool.ch  Tue Nov  5 04:28:12 2002
From: christian at becool.ch (Christian Kaenzig)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:28:12 +0100
Subject: UDP broadcasts => 'Permission denied'
In-Reply-To: <m2y9889aer.fsf@mail.a-nugget.de>
References: <mailman.1036450093.4936.python-list@python.org> <m2y9889aer.fsf@mail.a-nugget.de>
Message-ID: <200211050928.gA59SCV7014581@smtp-relay>

On Tuesday, 05 November 2002 00:34, Guido Goldstein wrote:

> Try the following:
> -snip-
>
> This allows broadcast messages going out from the given socket.

Ok, this actally works. Thanx !

The problem is that the python doc always refers to manpages that describe th 
ecorresponding functions in C, but I don't have them.

Do you know where I can find them ? Is there a deb package ?

Thanx again, bye.
Chris



From johs+n at ifi.uio.no  Mon Nov 11 05:15:22 2002
From: johs+n at ifi.uio.no (Johannes =?iso-8859-1?q?Gr=F8dem?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:15:22 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl>
 <lzfzua3cwc.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqlfh1$c7d$1@news.hccnet.nl>
 <lzisz5sehs.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqm0qt$4v3$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <lzel9spg3p.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>

* anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor):

> Maybe it's better to take a shortcut and to directly say what I
> *think* I was implying: The perceived difficulty of the parens (and
> it doesn't matter at all if this difficulty is real or imagined)
> increased Lisp's popularity in the early days because at that time
> it was thought that a programming language worth its wits had to be
> difficult to read.

So you're saying that people use Lisp because they're elitists?  I
fail to see how that is not trolling.

> I would like to add at this stage that "ad hominem" attacks like
> suggesting that I have been smoking - peculiar things maybe? - are
> also considered to be bad form.

Quite, but what is the appropriate response for an obvious troll?

-- 
Johannes Gr?dem <OpenPGP: 5055654C>


From mwh at python.net  Fri Nov 15 06:27:48 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:27:48 GMT
Subject: BUG URLLIB2
References: <3DD43DA7.5070004@libero.it> <m2lm3vhcg0.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <YFYA9.297$B85.33011@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7h38yzvxei1.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"JohnJacob" <JJ at JJ.com> writes:

> "John Hunter" <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
> news:m2lm3vhcg0.fsf at mother.paradise.lost...
> > >>>>> "bart" == bart  <e_viola at libero.it> writes:
> >
> >     bart> I'm an italian student and my problem consists about
> >     bart> urllib2; urlopen function, sometimes, give me old (and
> >     bart> inexactly) url because the site has moved in a new location
> >     bart> but urlopen doesn't undestand it and return 403 error
> >     bart> FORBIDDEN.
> >
> > I don't think you can describe this as a bug; it's a feature!  python
> > provides exceptions to handle, well, exceptional circumstances, such
> > as trying to access a web site that you are forbidden to access.  When
> > this happens, an 'exception' is raised, and there is a mechanism to
> > handle the exception.
> 
> Except that this web site doesn't appear to be forbidden. I can view it just
> fine with IE6, but when I try it with urllib2, I get the same error.
> Nonetheless, I have no idea why this is happening.

Google looks at your User-Agent header.  Read their terms and
conditions and then maybe get urllib to pretend it's MSIE 6 or
whatever if you don't care about those.

If you'd looked on sf you'd have found someone reporting almost
exactly this as a bug.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  You're posting to a Scheme group. Around here, arguing that Java is
  better than C++ is like arguing that grasshoppers taste better than
  tree bark.                        -- Thant Tessman, comp.lang.scheme


From =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?=  Mon Nov 18 14:52:33 2002
From: =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DF=D5=DD=D3=E3=D8=DD=D8=E1=E2=D0?= at =?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=D0=D8=DB?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DD=D5=E2?=.=?iso-8859-5?Q?=DC=DA?= (=?iso-8859-5?Q?=B4=D0=DC=F8=D0=DD_=B3=2E?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:52:33 +0100
Subject: Perl to python convertor
Message-ID: <3dd94531$1@news.mt.net.mk>

Is there such a beast, 
I have a perl module for a protocol that's not supported in Python
(SMPP). I think it doesn't use much more than plain Perl but I'm not a
perl expert.






-- 
??????

   Actually, Microsoft is sort of a mixture between the Borg and the Ferengi.



From blackprogramming at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 05:05:52 2002
From: blackprogramming at yahoo.com (black)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 02:05:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: where could I find Pwm package ?
Message-ID: <20021107100552.36607.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com>


Howdy~

I checked python.org for it but just find a dead link, anywhere available please ?



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD
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From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Nov 17 19:08:22 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:08:22 +1100
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A750@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Gon?alo Rodrigues [mailto:op73418 at mail.telepac.pt]
> 
> I believe it has also been made stable-sort. The con is that 
> it gobbles
> up more memory.

Yes, the 2.3 sort is stable, but it has been decided that there will never
be a guarantee that list.sort() will be stable. It's purely an
implementation detail - if an improved, non-stable implementation is
discovered then list.sort() may become non-stable once again.

The stability is purely a side effect of the algorithm used, which is faster
in all cases that Tim Peters tested (he thought of a lot of nasty cases)
than the current implementation (*much* faster in many cases). I wouldn't
use the term "gobbles" up more memory - it uses a *little* bit more memory.
"Gobbles" implies that it uses a *lot* more memory.

In any case, the DSU pattern to maintain stability is still useful, even if
you rely on the stability of the algorithm. Performance has shown to be much
better using indexed DSU than simply relying on the stable algorithm.

Tim Delaney



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 12 06:42:46 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 05:42:46 -0600
Subject: how good is shelve?
In-Reply-To: <aqqkh9$gb2$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
References: <aqqkh9$gb2$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <15824.59702.77150.86987@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Peter> at the moment I'm writing a small web application with
    Peter> python. Because I'm lazy I does not store the data for it in a
    Peter> mySQL-Database or something similar. Instead I use shelve to
    Peter> store the data. Now my question is: will I get problems if my web
    Peter> application becomes famous (I don't think it will, but who
    Peter> knows?) and the data to store gets big?

If your application becomes famous you'll probably have difficulties with
file corruption before it gets big.  Make sure you are locking the file
properly.  How to do that is platform-dependent.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov  9 04:54:01 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 09:54:01 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <aqilvp$3l1$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:48:35 GMT, engsol at teleport.com wrote:

>I've read the books, tried some code, and I still just don't get it.
>
>If some kind soul can explain the (high level) process, I can figure out the details, I
>think.
>
>What I want to do is call (or invoke) a C exe  from Python, and return the results to
>Python. Or pass values of some sort to the C exe, and again have Python trap the returned
>results. I'm a long way from the concept of shared variables. <grin>
If it's a separate exe, you could go this route:

[ 1:45] C:\pywk\junk>type hello.c
/* hello.c */
#include <stdio.h>
void main(){
    printf("Hello World!\n");
}


[ 1:45] C:\pywk\junk>cl -Ox -nologo hello.c
hello.c

[ 1:46] C:\pywk\junk>dir hello.*
 Volume in drive C is System
 Volume Serial Number is 14CF-C4B9

 Directory of C:\pywk\junk

02-11-09  01:45                     85 hello.c
02-11-09  01:46                 28,672 hello.exe
02-11-09  01:46                    550 hello.obj
               3 File(s)         29,307 bytes
                            159,109,632 bytes free

[ 1:46] C:\pywk\junk>python
Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os
>>> os.popen('hello.exe').read()
'Hello World!\n'



>
>The first stumbling block is that the books offer examples of C code which don't seem to
>have a main(). My compilers don't care for that too much. I took a quick look at SWIG, but
>to be honest, I didn't understand how to use it. Again, I need the high level concept.
>
Well, it depends on what kind of coupling you need between your python stuff and the c stuff.
Some variant of the above may do it, or not ;-) Need more definite requirement statement.

>The second problem is the concept of translating PyObjects to C and vice versa. As I say,
>I just don't get it yet.
>
>The third problem is that the books spend one paragraph on the Python/C code, usually for
>Linux, then three pages on reference counts. Do I really have to worry about them, or not?
>
>I'm using Python 222 on NT. If I understood how to do  "Hello world" (in C, called from
>Python), I might be able to go from there.
>
the above was Python 2.2.2 on NT4 ;-)

>In case you're interested, the reason I need to learn this is that my company is in dire
>need of a new software test tool. I'm convinced that Python is the right scripting
>language for the testers, and will be best in terms of maintainabilty and enhancement, no
>matter if the platform is NT/2000/Linux. We have a huge library of legacy C code which we
>can re-use as is, assuming I can learn to marry Python and C.
Is it legacy .exe's that you want to run under scripted control, or is it C source that
you want to use in some python extension modules?

>
> BTW, I'm a diehard Python convert! (But my family doesn't know yet, so keep it under your
>hat please)
>
Ok.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Thu Nov 14 03:20:33 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:20:33 +0100
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqvmb3$v6h$1@news.netpower.no>

"Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list at python.org...
> > From: arivu at qmaxtest.com [mailto:arivu at qmaxtest.com]
>
> > Can any one please explain how to write a Inline Function in Python?
>
> No. See below.
>
> > Is Inline Functions available in python?
>
> No.
>
> I assume you're coming from C++. In that case, I suggest you take a good
> hard look at why you want to write inline functions/methods anyway. If
> you're doing it for performance reasons, your compiler is almost certainly
> going to be better at deciding what to inline, and has the option to do so
> unless you explicitly tell it not to. If you're doing for any other reason
> (such as putting code in header files) I strongly advise against it.
>
> Inline was developed when computers were slower and compilers were more
> stupid. These days I see no need to inline whatsoever.
>
> Tim Delaney
>

While what you write is technically correct, inline functions are still
important in C and C++ because computers are still slow (depending on the
task, of course) and compilers are still stupid.  As long as C(++) compilers
still generate seperate completed object code modules that are only
collected by a linker, then you are going to get a performance hit whenever
a small function from one module is used by a function in another module.
The only way around that (until C compilers and linkers really do become
smarter) is to put inlined functions in headers.  It's ugly, it's a
maintanance problem, but it's the only way.





From musikintresserad at yahoo.se  Mon Nov 18 07:45:59 2002
From: musikintresserad at yahoo.se (Adam S)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:45:59 +0000
Subject: Python urllib.urlretrieve vs. Perl getstore
References: <mailman.1037375538.5668.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD8E107.E7CBA171@yahoo.se>

I just had a peek inside urllib.py and the urllib.urlretrieve
is essentially a FancyURLopener-retrieve.

It reads a 8*1024 block then writes it into the
file opened, see below:

fp is the opened url
tfp is the destination file.

    bs = 8*1024

    while block:
        tfp.write(block)
        block = fp.read(bs)

So really no more than  8*1024 bytes should never go into memory.
I've tried implementing my own version of this experimenting with
different block sizes but it makes little difference.

Adam

Dave Brueck wrote:
> 
> 40 MB files? Hmm... maybe is urllib pulling the entire file into memory?
> If so, the slowdown might have nothing to do with the network and
> everything to do with the OS swapping memory to disk.
> 
> -Dave


From jwt at starship.python.net  Thu Nov  7 23:52:47 2002
From: jwt at starship.python.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 04:52:47 GMT
Subject: ht2html and reStructured text
References: <mailman.1036677249.30040.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasmgos.38j.jwt@twin.dskk.co.jp>

In article <mailman.1036677249.30040.python-list at python.org>,
Oliver Rutherfurd wrote:

> I've written an '.ht' writer for docutils which will convert
> reStructuredText to an '.ht' file. It is not yet part of
> docutils, but I hope it will be included in a future release.
> 
> It can be found in the docutils sandbox here:
> 
> http://docutils.sourceforge.net/sandbox/oliverr/ht/

Thanks!  It was just what I was looking for.

(Some of my project's 'structured text' files really are just
fragments, like a bullet list.  The lack of a 'title' was a
problem for the astext method, so I added a default empty title
to HTTranslator's initializer... but perhaps using the original
filename as a default title would be a more general solution.)

> easier to use reStructuredText from ht2html), however I'm new to
> ht2html and am still trying to figure out how to make it work the way
> I'd like it to.  Mainly I want the same nav links throughout a directory
> tree and I'd also like breadcrumbs instead of site links on top. I only

I'm also new to ht2html and am having trouble getting relative
links the way I want them.  But ht2html combined with docutils
and your .ht writer look good for automating site builds from
some existing structured text files.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  4 09:49:08 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 14:49:08 +0000
Subject: urllib ??
References: <9782a2ed.0211040151.db070a3@posting.google.com> <3DC64C2A.7604FB4B@hotmail.com> <aq5v25$kkb$1@samos.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <3DC688E4.BD46E2FB@hotmail.com>

Rainer wrote:
> 
> hi alan
> this is the problem, maybe i put it the wrong way.
> i DO NOT get the results from the server. the thing that is stored in
> 'results', is the 'query-webpage' with the values filled in, not the
> results page.

OK, I think I see your peoblem now.

You're submitting data to the server almost correctly, but the server is
just returning the input form to you, as if you had not filled out all
of the fields correctly.

And I think that this is one of the things you are doing wrong: not
filling in the fields correctly. The problem lines are these

    d['.cgifields']='ContAllHits'
    d['.cgifields']='SortByIde'
    d['.cgifields']='StructAllHits'
    d['.cgifields']='Map2Mismatch'
    d['.cgifields']='Dbase3d'

HTTP allows for multiple values for the same field in a POST request.
However, python dictionaries do NOT: python dicts can have only one
value for every key. Try the following at an interactive prompt

>>>d = {}
>>>d['.cgifields']='ContAllHits'
>>>d
{'.cgifields': 'ContAllHits'}
>>>d['.cgifields']='SortByIde'
>>>d
{'.cgifields': 'SortByIde'}

You're expecting it to maintain multiple values for the key
".cgifields", but it doesn't: the value gets overwritten each time,
meaning that you are submitting POST data that only includes the value
'.cgifields'='Dbase3d' (the last assignment in the list), and failing to
supply values for the (presumably necessary) 'ContAllHits', 'SortByIde',
'StructAllHits', 'Map2Mismatch'.

The solution is to pass a list of tuples to "urlencode" instead of a
dictionary, like so

#=-----------------------------------------------------

def query2_polyphen():

    d=[
    ('InputQuerySequence', '>GGG \012 sequence'),
    ('Var1', 'C'),
    ('InputQueryPosition', '282'),
    ('Var2', 'Y'),
    ('Dbase3d', 'pqs'),
    ('SortByIde', '1'),
    ('Map2Mismatch', '0'),
    ('StructAllHits', '0'),
    ('ContAllHits', '0'),
    ('MinHitLen', '100'),
    ('MinHitIde', '0.5'),
    ('MaxHitGaps', '20'),
    ('ContThresh', '6'),
    ('.cgifields', 'ContAllHits'),
    ('.cgifields', 'SortByIde'),
    ('.cgifields', 'StructAllHits'),
    ('.cgifields', 'Map2Mismatch'),
    ('.cgifields', 'Dbase3d'),
    ]
    query=urllib.urlencode(d)
    url = 'http://tux.embl-heidelberg.de/ramensky/polyphen.cgi'
    results = urllib.urlopen(url,query).read()
    open ('rainer.html','w').write(results)
#=-----------------------------------------------------

However, I also notice, by manually submitting your form data using a
browser, that the data you are submitting give rise to an error. I don't
know enough about molecular biology to know what the error is, but I
suggest that you get your submitted data right manually before trying to
submit it automatically.

Also, you might send an email to the provider of the polyphen service
asking them to somehow make it possible for automated submission scripts
to recognise when a query has failed, rather than simply sending the
form again. A return HTTP status value in the 4xx series might be
suitable, e.g. of the "404 - file not found" variety.

HTH,

alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de  Thu Nov 21 01:24:12 2002
From: dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de (Joerg Woelke)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:24:12 +0100
Subject: popen / batchfile / environment variables
References: <are0ca$bm$07$1@news.t-online.com> <c07d0edc.0211200704.2e7a299c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DDC7C0C.C4509EBA@felis.uni-freiburg.de>

Hi!

Guy wrote:

>     try:
>         EnvVarValue=os.environ[EnviromentVarName]
>     except:
>         os.environ[EnviromentVarName]=""
>         EnvVarValue=os.environ[EnviromentVarName]
> 
>     if EnvVarValue != "":
>         EnvVarValue=string.split(EnvVarValue,Separator)
>         for Value in ValuesList:
>             EnvVarValue.append(Value)
>         for Value in EnvVarValue:
>             TotalEnv = TotalEnv + Value + Separator
>         os.environ[EnviromentVarName]=TotalEnv
>     else:
>         for Value in EnvVarValue:
>             TotalEnv = TotalEnv + Value + Separator
>         os.environ[EnviromentVarName]=TotalEnv

os.putenv()

HTH, J"o!

-- 
sigfault


From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 28 05:08:37 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:08:37 GMT
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <7h3adjvqgs4.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <8ef9bea6.0211271324.2c1a13aa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3isyiovs3.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu) writes:

> Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in message news:<7h3adjvqgs4.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>...
> > hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu) writes:
> > > The global statement as in
> > >     ...
> > > is a directive to the parser. 
> > 
> > Well, compiler, really.
> 
> From Guido's Python Language Reference Manual, Section 6.13 The global
> statement:
> 
> "... Programmer's note: the global is a directive to the parser. It
> applies only to code parsed at the same time as the global statement.
> ..."

Just evidence that Guido isn't infallible :)

It's the compiler.  After all, it's the compiler that has to decide
whether to emit a LOAD_GLOBAL or a LOAD_FAST...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  All programs evolve until they can send email.      -- Richard Letts
  Except Microsoft Exchange.                                    -- Art
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html


From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Nov 21 13:21:06 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 18:21:06 GMT
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <arfgtg$fhj$1@Fourier.suse.de>  <7kf83526.fsf@python.net> <95959723.0211201844.7ce3458@posting.google.com>  <1037851388.29783@yasure> <7vOf8XARuL39EwBN@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <arj86i$1na0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>:
| In article <1037851388.29783 at yasure>, Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com>
| writes
| >Quoth hansgeunsmeyer at earthlink.net (hg):
|>...
|>| As far as I understand it, it doesn't really matter _what_ the thread
|>| state is that you swap into the current state before you do the
|>| callback, as long as it is _some_ valid thread state (not NULL). So,
|>| before you do the callback, at any moment when you're in the main
|>| Python thread, you could store a pointer to the then current
|>| threadstate.
|>
|> Why are there multiple thread states, then?  If we might as well just
|> use the existing state of any thread, it seems like we are put to a
|> lot of trouble to hunt one up.

| I guess we're talking cross purposes somewhat.

Indeed we might be.  When Thomas Heller, Hans and I say "thread state",
we're talking about some C data maintained by the Python interpreter -

   typedef struct _ts {
       struct _ts *next;
       PyInterpreterState *interp;

       struct _frame *frame;
       int recursion_depth;
       int ticker;
       int tracing;
       int use_tracing;

       Py_tracefunc c_profilefunc;
       Py_tracefunc c_tracefunc;
       PyObject *c_profileobj;
       PyObject *c_traceobj;

       PyObject *curexc_type;
       PyObject *curexc_value;
       PyObject *curexc_traceback;

       PyObject *exc_type;
       PyObject *exc_value;
       PyObject *exc_traceback;

       PyObject *dict;

       /* XXX signal handlers should also be here */

   } PyThreadState;

This is not a thread, and as discussed previously, a thread is not
constrained to only one of these.  But my point is that a thread
should not just pick up whatever PyThreadState at random, in the
C code that implements a callback into the interpreter.  It should
use only a PyThreadState that belongs to it, even if it has to make
one.  Either that, or they should all use the same one, and save
the hassle that we currently are put to (in C callback code.)

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From alienoid at is.lg.ua  Tue Nov 19 04:02:06 2002
From: alienoid at is.lg.ua (Ruslan Spivak)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:02:06 +0200
Subject: How to make changes before doing python setup.py build, please help
Message-ID: <1843815616.20021119110206@is.lg.ua>

Hello python-list users,

RedHat8.0 gcc3.2, python2.1.3
I have installed also gcc2.96 for compatability issues.

I compiled python2.1.3 with gcc2.96 (make choosed that gcc - it's ok),
now I want to install DCOracle2 package and doing
'python2.1 setup.py build' uses gcc(3.2) by default and that brakes my
package when I load it in python2.1.3.
How can I config setup.py so it will use gcc296 for compiling and
linking by default DCOraclw2 package?

Your help is very, very appreciated.
Thanks in advance.


Best regards,
 Ruslan                          mailto:alienoid at is.lg.ua




From Oschler at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  7 14:47:05 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:47:05 GMT
Subject: [Jython] current directory function and importing PY files?
Message-ID: <Zqzy9.45353$Lg2.12448602@news2.news.adelphia.net>

I have a JavaBean that is run by a foreign app, that loads and executes my
bean through a copy of the JVM the foreign app starts up.  I want to be able
to import a Python module, residing in a *.py file, from an instance of
PythonInterpreter (and later from compiled Jython classes).  How can I:

- get a listing of the current directory
- import the py file from the desired directory

Is this functionality is not allowed by the JVM's security policy (can I
change that?).  If not, can I instead import a py file embedded in the JAR
that contains my JavaBean?  If so, what Jython command do I use to do that?
If it's through a URL where can I find the correct syntax?

Or other options? I'm guessing there must be a solution here or the "import"
command would be useless for anything but importing java classes and
precompiled Jython classes.  What's strange is, when I try exec'ing "import
os", it works without complaint.  But when I try a common function, for
example "print(os.curdir), I get an error saying "org.python.modules.os" has
no attribute "curdir".

thx




From member at dbforums.com  Fri Nov  8 21:33:40 2002
From: member at dbforums.com (Tetsuo)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 02:33:40 +0000
Subject: Web based interface
Message-ID: <2027692.1036809220@dbforums.com>

I'm a n00b at programming of any kind. I only made one working program
in my life, it created a temperature conversion table, I got guidance
from my mom (who has coded for 25 years, although not in Python or any
scripting language), and I have thoroughly forgotten whatever I learned
from reading Mr. van Rossum's tutorial in August. Well, I sorta remember
something... But despite all this, I have a big dream. It requires a
database and a Web interface. It's hard to explain, but it's like a
message board. I found a database (MySQL), a graphic interface for it
(MySQLGUI), a module (MySQLdb), and they all even actually work. I also,
after some struggle, found a magazine article that explained how to
connect Python to MySQL. But I don't even know where to look to find out
how to create dynamic Web pages with information from a database, read
forms, and whatever else a message board could need.

Hail Lord Akira.

P.S. MySQLdb's doc said it's only supported on Linux. Where can I get
     something for Win2K? And documentation for it, too?

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Tue Nov  5 19:55:45 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 13:55:45 +1300
Subject: How does Python handle probing to see if a file already exists?
References: <pan.2002.11.05.10.28.55.506357@yahoo.com> <slrnasf8d8.168.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <3DC86891.7050405@something.invalid>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> It's also possible to check if a file exists before trying to open it:
> 
> if os.path.exists("/usr/bin/foo"):
>     # more code here
> 
> But the existence of the file does not guarantee you have the necessary
> permissions to actually open it. It could also be deleted in the millisecond or
> so between your check and trying to open it.


The problem in Christopher's case is actually the other
way around -- a file could be *created* in between probing
and opening a new file.

This presents a slight problem. What we really need to do
is attempt to open the new file with a mode which says
"create the file, or fail if it already exists" -- but
there doesn't seem to be any such mode.

On Unix, it can be done using lower-level calls:

    from os import open, fdopen, O_CREAT, O_EXCL
    try:
      fd = open(new_file_name, O_CREAT | O_EXCL, 0666)
      f = fdopen(fd, "w")
    except IOError:
      ...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Thu Nov 28 12:03:01 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:03:01 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <j60auu0ms3i8e3oihtfold855at9gnglfg@4ax.com> <tyfptspzozl.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <7ticuush118eabmqvb4bua0pu0dd49uhj0@4ax.com>

>... In the same sense that it is a _lethal_ failing of Python, C++,
>Befunge, email ... it is a _lethal_ failing of *any* data with a text
>representation, that needs to be edited.  <0.5 wink>

Not so. Most programming languages can be worked with in editors
that don't have language-specific modes.

C//



From shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 18:32:21 2002
From: shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com (Richard Dillingham)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:32:21 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <3DD974C6.CD626D0A@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <9MeC9.17362$0U1.1724486@news2.east.cox.net>

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3DD974C6.CD626D0A at alcyone.com...
> Richard Dillingham wrote:
>
> > Kind of like we have multiple assignments in a line (oldx,oldy=x,y),
> > what do
> > you think of the ability to have multiple tests in an if statement
> > with only
> > one == or >=.
> >
> > This would mean that lines like the following:
> > if posx>=coords[0] and posy>=coords[1] and posx<=coords[2] and
> > posy<=coords[3]:
> >
> > Could be rewritten like so:
> > if posx,posy>=coords[0],coords[1] and posx,posy<=coords[2],coords[3]
>
> The obvious problem is that this syntax already has a meaning in Python,
> and it's not what you think.
>
> a, b == c, d
>
> creates a tuple of length three, the second element of which is the
> result of the comparison b == c; that is, it's
>
> (a, (b == c), d).
>
> Even if you group parentheses to avoid this, you get
>
> (a, b) == (c, d)
>
> which also already has a meaning; it's a comparison of the tuples, not
> the pairwise comparison of the elements.
>
> --
>  Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
>  __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
> /  \ Who's not sat tense before his own heart's curtain?
> \__/ Rainer Maria Rilke
>     Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
>  A mathematics reference.

As I have asked everyone else that brings up that point, then why does the
following fail (Using Python 2.2.2)?

if a,b==c,d: print a
  File "<input>", line 1
    if a,b==c,d: print a
        ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax




From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Nov 12 15:45:35 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:45:35 -0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <7h3lm3y23of.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns92C4D339A3A1Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in 
news:7h3lm3y23of.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk:

> DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> 
>> Is there a source form example of the py docs,
> 
> You meant like the Doc/ directory in the source distribution?
> 
> [...]
> 
>>   Just to take a look at producing docbook from that,
>> and to see if XML/XSLT/XSL-FO processing chain could do the job 
>> please?
> 
> I still don't grok the advantages of a "XML/XSLT/XSL-FO processing
> chain", except that Milan has said info production would be easier...

My view is that the toolset is expanding not shrinking, hence the options
are increasing as to what could be done with an XML source.

Regards DaveP


From gulliver at atr.co.jp  Sat Nov 30 08:21:04 2002
From: gulliver at atr.co.jp (Roberto Lopez-Gulliver)
Date: 30 Nov 2002 05:21:04 -0800
Subject: pyopengl install problem on redhat 8.0
References: <e9851925.0211290440.4c14ef03@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <26b7aa41.0211300521.3fe3eb5d@posting.google.com>

do this as root :

   root # cd /usr; ln -s X11R6 X11

and try again

good luck.

--r

lehmann at puk.unibe.ch (christoph) wrote in message news:<e9851925.0211290440.4c14ef03 at posting.google.com>...
> on a redhat 8.0 system (a31p thinkpad) i ran
> 
> python setup.py build
> 
> and got:
> 
> gcc -shared build/temp.linux-i686-2.2/GL.ARB.matrix_palette.o -L/usr/lib
> -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/X11/lib -Lbuild/temp.linux-i686-2.2 -lGL -lX11
> -lXext -lGLU -linterface_util -lGLE -o
> build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/OpenGL/GL/ARB/matrix_palette.so
> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lX11
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
> 
> 
> please help me!!!
> thanks a lot
> christoph


From theller at python.net  Thu Nov  7 07:17:59 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 13:17:59 +0100
Subject: "Universal Gateway"
References: <apkc4c$d5s$2@pith.uoregon.edu> <n0oxjc6f.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Rejw9.22645$jE1.72970@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <1y63gc02.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Y_Nx9.14995$5u4.46256@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <heewyxlc.fsf@ion-tof.com> <ursy9.23689$5u4.72621@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <fzud3760.fsf@python.net>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> writes:

> Thomas Heller:
> 
> > With this module available, and an additional com foundation
> > which is included in it's test directory, Neil's sample
> > can be written in this way:
> 
>    That's much nicer than my code.

Thanks, but that isn't your fault ;-)

> 
> > I didn't advertise my ctypes module, because the documentation is not
> > yet complete, and I probably don't have the time to support it.
> 
>    It can take a lot of time to support open source code but this deserves
> wider distribution. If I was working on Windows (I'm currently stuck on
> Linux) I'd certainly want to use this module as it moves beyond calldll
> allowing much clearer and maintainable code. A good improvement would be to
> read type libraries to build the message lists and argument descriptions.

Right. (dynamic) makepy, the ctypes way.

I didn't intend to write just another COM framework, but it's fun to
do it, and I had to test this stuff anyway. The test directory
mentioned above also contains a dynammic Dispatch client
implementation which is able to drive MS Word with some stuff I got
from Mark's demos.

Maybe calling custom COM interfaces is the first hole this module can
fill up.

Ok, it seems I cannot escape, now that ctypes also was mentioned in
the Daily Python-URL, so I will also announce it here, after some
cleanup.

Thomas


From dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 07:04:25 2002
From: dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 12:04:25 GMT
Subject: rss.py for win32.
References: <Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP@195.112.4.37> <a439a820.0211230722.10a0c0bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92D07ADDDE051DaveP@195.112.4.37>

jgoodlet at genesis.cs.utc.edu (Joshua Goodlett) wrote
> You might try looking into Mark Nottingham's RSS.py module, which you
> can find at http://www.mnot.net/python/RSS.py.  I'm running W2K with
> Python 2.2 and have had no trouble using it.  There's also a nice
> article that illustrates the module's use at
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/ws-pyth11.html.  Hope
> that helps!

Thanks Joshua.

Will do..


Regards DaveP.


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Thu Nov  7 19:08:15 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 00:08:15 GMT
Subject: Newbie- how to basics
References: <8d3e714e.0211071600.2a98b136@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasm03e.160.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Tony C wrote in comp.lang.python:
> I've gone through much of the documentation included with Python
> 2.2.2, but can find any kind of reference on how to clear the screen
> from a python script, or at the command line.

You could just print the escape sequence for that, but I believe that
there are utility modules for this.

If you need more similar stuff, like posititioning the cursor,
changing colors (or using bold/underline/...) you can use the curses
module instead.  

I'm assuming a Unixish system here. On Windows, the console module
from http://effbot.org/downloads/ might be it.

> Another useful feature would be command line history (up arrow, down
> arrow, etc), like in the Unix shells.

Sounds like the readline module can be of some use to you. I haven't
used it myself, yet.

-- Gerhard


From dnew at san.rr.com  Mon Nov 11 16:03:41 2002
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:03:41 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DCFF6FB.40426F8E@san.rr.com> <3DD00595.B2905D8E@earthlink.net> <3DD00B63.EC604897@san.rr.com> <3DD0113D.79EC23F6@earthlink.net> <3DD01596.A3420862@san.rr.com> <3DD01A21.2E4968D7@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DD01B2D.43C6456A@san.rr.com>

Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> What are the semantics of "break" and "continue" in a procedure, when
> they don't refer to a label or loop within that procedure?

They return with a different exit code, I believe. In other words, it
depends on the caller.


From glc at well.com  Tue Nov  5 11:44:42 2002
From: glc at well.com (Greg Chapman)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 16:44:42 GMT
Subject: Regex: Matching characters, but not digits
References: <aq8bvi$2hv$02$1@news.t-online.com> <vbsfsuo41q73joemljvo0neg5p6m2t1qqu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <r0tfsug9lm1ehf13tg1p7kuh7rk8sfkmb3@4ax.com>

On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 16:32:07 GMT, Greg Chapman <glc at well.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:06:23 +0100, Thomas Guettler
><zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de> wrote:
>
>>Hi!
>>
>>\w matches characters and digits. But,
>>how can I match only characters?
>>
>>This should work for unicode, too
>>
>>  thomas
>
>This should work: [^\W\d_].  That is, match something which is 1) not not a \w,
>2) not a digit and 3) not an underscore.
>

However, I see that under unicode [^\W\d_] includes a bunch of characters for
which isalnum is true, but isalpha is false, so Martin's suggestion really is
best.

---
Greg Chapman



From cameron at nospam.patrick.wattle.id.au  Sat Nov  2 11:27:46 2002
From: cameron at nospam.patrick.wattle.id.au (Cameron Patrick)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 00:27:46 +0800
Subject: loggin out automatically
References: <1036253358.19897.0@doris.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <3dc3fcf4$0$7369@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

News wrote:

> I am considering writing a little program to control the amount of time a
> certain user is allowed to access a Linux system i.e. 10 minutes, 1 hour,
> etc.
> 
> I was wondering if there might be any complications with a line like:
> 
> os.system("logout")

'twould not work at all.  os.system() starts a new shell and runs the 
command in that.

The 'w' command tells you when a given user logged in and what tty they are 
on.  A command like
        ps --tty pts/3
will give you a list of all the processes running on a given tty, e.g. pts/3
I'm sure there's some way of parsing the output of these two in Python and 
killing the processes with os.kill()

In fact, I believe there's some way of setting login session time limits in 
Linux which would eliminate the need for such a Python programme.

> 
> Would :
>     The python interpreter wait for the call to return and refuse to die
>     so
> the call would fail?
>     Or: would some other complication I haven't thought of stop this
> working?
>     Or: would this work fine?
>     Or: am I an idiot?
>     Or: some combination of the above?
> 

Some combination of the above, I'd say.  Some people might suggest that you 
were silly to not just /try/ your command in a python interpreter, e.g.--

cameron at erdos:~$ python
Python 2.2.1 (#1, Oct  6 2002, 17:09:32)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os
>>> os.system('logout')
sh: logout: not login shell: use `exit'

CP



From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 20 22:57:03 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 03:57:03 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>, Grant Edwards wrote:

> My understanding is that (in C) you:
> 
>  1) Call WaitCommEvent() and give it three parameters:
>      * File handle
>      * a pointer to where the output mask value is to be stored
>      * a pointer to an overlapped struct
>     
>  2) WaitCommEvent() returns immediately.
> 
>  3) Call one of the WaitXXX() functions to wait on the event in
>     the overloapped struct.
> 
>  4) When the event is triggered WaitXXX() returns. Check the
>     value stored via the output mask pointer passed in 1)
>     above.

I've verefied that the above is correct. I wrote a C program that verifies
that the value pointed to by the pointer passed to WaitCommEvent() is
written to later: after the event happens.  

That means that the Win32all WaitCommEvent() wrapper is passing a pointer to
a local, automatic variable that used in a write operation sometime after
the end of the referenced variable's lifetime.  Why this hasn't caused
problems, I don't know.  Good karma, I guess.

I don't know if the write happens immediately when the event occurs or if it
is delayed until WaitForXXX() is called [I called WaitForXXX() immediately].
Either way, it happens long after WaitCommEvent() has returned. That's the
way it's described on the MSDN web page, and surprisingly, that's the way it
works.

BTW, the demo code on MSDN showing WaitCommEvent() being used to wait for
CTS or DSR events does _not_ work.  I compiled it and ran it.  The call to
WaitCommEvent() always returned immediately with a mask of 0.  It doesn't
wait for anything...

The source and executable for the test program are available at:

ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/grante/python/hello.c
ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/grante/python/hello.exe

The test program opens COM1, and waits for an RX_CHAR event.  

The WaitCommEvent() call returns immediately after setting the mask output
value to 0.  

The subsequent WaitForSingleObject() call waits until I send a byte to COM1
(in the example run below is about 2 seconds later), then returns after
setting the mask output value to 1:

Here's the output:

  dwEvtMask=5555aaaa
  hello.c:42 0.306s Calling WaitCommEvent
  hello.c:46 0.306s WaitCommEvent returned
  rc=0 dwEvtMask=00000000
  hello.c:48 0.306s Calling WaitForSingleEvent
  hello.c:52 2.481s WaitForSingleEvent returned
  rc=0 dwEvtMask=00000001
  hello.c:54 2.481s done

[the floating point value is time since program start]


And here's the program:

--------------------------------8<--------------------------------
#include <windows.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <assert.h>
#include <time.h>

#define Trace(s) printf("%s:%d %0.3fs %s\n", \
			   __FILE__,__LINE__, \
			   ((double)clock())/CLOCKS_PER_SEC,\
			   s)

int main(void)
{
   DCB dcb;
   HANDLE hCom;
   OVERLAPPED o;
   BOOL fSuccess,rc;
   DWORD dwEvtMask = 0x5555AAAA;
   hCom = CreateFile( "COM1",
		      GENERIC_READ | GENERIC_WRITE,
		      0,    // exclusive access 
		      NULL, // no security attributes 
		      OPEN_EXISTING,
		      FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED,
		      NULL
		      );                        assert(hCom != INVALID_HANDLE_VALUE);

   rc = GetCommState(hCom,&dcb);                assert(rc);
   dcb.BaudRate = CBR_9600;
   dcb.ByteSize = 8;
   dcb.Parity = NOPARITY;
   dcb.StopBits = ONESTOPBIT;
   rc = SetCommState(hCom,&dcb);                 assert(rc);
   rc = SetCommMask(hCom, EV_RXCHAR);           assert(rc);
   o.hEvent = CreateEvent(
			  NULL,   // no security attributes 
			  FALSE,  // auto reset event 
			  FALSE,  // not signaled 
			  NULL    // no name 
			  );
   assert(o.hEvent);
   printf("dwEvtMask=%08x\n",dwEvtMask);
   Trace("Calling WaitCommEvent");
   
   rc = WaitCommEvent(hCom, &dwEvtMask, &o);
   
   Trace("WaitCommEvent returned");
   printf("rc=%d dwEvtMask=%08x\n",rc,dwEvtMask);
   Trace("Calling WaitForSingleEvent");
   
   rc = WaitForSingleObject(o.hEvent,50000);
   
   Trace("WaitForSingleEvent returned");
   printf("rc=%d dwEvtMask=%08x\n",rc,dwEvtMask);
   Trace("done");
   return 0;
}
--------------------------------8<--------------------------------


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Wed Nov 20 17:04:19 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:04:19 -0800
Subject: static variables?
In-Reply-To: <arguqd$oon$1@ins22.netins.net>
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1037767829.15722.python-list@python.org> <arguqd$oon$1@ins22.netins.net>
Message-ID: <200211202204.OAA17342@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Wednesday 20 November 2002 13:28, Mike Dean wrote:
> Ahh, this makes everything clear.  As usual, simple and elegant.  But,
> where is this documented in the Python docs?

http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#6.25

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Fri Nov 29 13:36:22 2002
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:36:22 GMT
Subject: Anybody using vtk and Python out there?
Message-ID: <3de7b230.19875609@news.easynews.net>

Hi,

I have to visualize huge amount of data and I would like to use Python
and vtk. So far I have seen only two methods to get data into the vtk
structure.
1. Using a vtkReader (e.g. vtkUnstructuredGridReader)

2 Generating Cell one by one:.
         P=vtkPoints()
            P.InsertPoint(..)
           C=vtkCellArray()
           C.InsertNextCell.... and so on

The first method is not flexible enough and the second is very slow.
Does anybody know another way?

Thanks
marcus


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  7 22:30:26 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 03:30:26 GMT
Subject: [Jython] ImportError: no module named XML
Message-ID: <mdGy9.45611$Lg2.12528905@news2.news.adelphia.net>

In a python script I have I have the following line:

from xml.dom import minidom

Now if run the script in the external Jython shell, that is, I switch to my
Jython install directory (c:\jython-2.1) and at a command line type "> run",
the script runs fine.  There are no complaints at all.

However, when I run the script in a PythonInterpreter instance in my Java
Bean/applet, I get a error saying "ImportError: no module named xml".  In my
jar I added everything in the entire Jython.jar file except the manifest.  I
added the entire "com", "org", and "jxxload_help" packages.  I checked the
JAR contents with "jar tf" and they are all there.

Just to be exact, when I say "run the script" I mean I instantiate a new
PythonInterpreter instance.  I select a file from an AWT FileDialog()
session and read the selected file into a String restoring the linefeeds
removed by readline() as I go.  I then ".exec" the string.

Any ideas?

thx





From Kricxjo.neniuspamajxo at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  9 07:59:57 2002
From: Kricxjo.neniuspamajxo at yahoo.com (Christopher R. Culver)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 13:59:57 +0100
Subject: How to spawn a program and assign its stdout to a string variable?
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.09.12.59.56.239034@yahoo.com>

I'm working on a pdf2ps frontend script that will use the *nix utility
"file" to determine a file's type without blindly trying to work on it. I
assume the best way to do this is to spawn "file", capture its stdout to a
string variable, and then use regular expressions to search within the
captured stdout for the file type desired (in this case PDF). However,
I've tried these:

capturedstdout = os.system(["file"]+foo)

capturedstdout = swapvp('P_NOWAIT', 'file', ['file']+foo)

but these don't work because the return value of file is assigned to the
variable "capturedstdout", not the stdout. How do I spawn a program and
have its stdout assigned to a string variable?

Christopher Culver


From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Nov 11 09:16:07 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:16:07 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Newsfactor: Perl or PHP?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211111712540.3427-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

Hello fellow Pythoneers!

Linuxtoday.com has the subject among the news. Newsfactor.com "chooses"
between the two.  Everyone feeling the choice is wider can voice his/her
opinion on the talkbacks.

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From dgemic at nospam.net  Sat Nov  9 09:24:42 2002
From: dgemic at nospam.net (Drazen Gemic)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 15:24:42 +0100
Subject: LCS algorithm
References: <3DCD1A12.4070809@nospam.net>
Message-ID: <3DCD1AAA.8080404@nospam.net>

Drazen Gemic wrote:
> Is there an implementation of Largest Common Sequence algorithm
> in Python ? I am particulary interested in implementation that
> works for character strings.
>

Sorry, Longest Common Sequence :)

>                                        DG
> 




From maney at pobox.com  Sat Nov 30 16:01:25 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:01:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <j60auu0ms3i8e3oihtfold855at9gnglfg@4ax.com> <as3bcc$ek5$1@wheel2.two14.net> <3DE7F792.6040004@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <asb8v5$icu$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> No matter what Lisp IDE you use (LW, ACL, Corman, MCL) you'll get a 
> Lisp-aware editor, the way IDLE is Python-aware.

But one doesn't need to use IDLE in order to do significant development
with Python, while you still seem to be saying that not using "Emacs
(or something like Emacs)" is problematical.  (FWIW, I've had a quick
look at IDLE and it didn't much appeal to me, so I'm inclined to think
that if IDLE or some other limited choice of IDE/editor were a
practical requirement, I likely wouldn't be using Python now.)
Actually, I'm not sure I really want to call that a _lethal_ failing,
but it surely is an obstacle between clueless newbie and novice
programmer that most other languages don't impose.  :-(



From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Nov 12 10:35:34 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:35:34 -0600
Subject: Help with searching a list
References: <8d3e714e.0211111913.2e0964c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2k7jissvt.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Tony" == Tony C <cappy2112 at yahoo.com> writes:

    Tony> Python newbie needs help with searching a list of lists.
    Tony> What is the correct way for search a list of lists ?

You can do this by 'flattening' the list -- ie, turning into a single
list with all the elements of the component lists (recursively).  Look
at the flatten recipe in the Python Cookbook or on the Active State
site.  Here is a slightly modified version that takes bits from both.
It required python2.2 because it uses generators

from __future__ import generators

def iterable(obj):
   try: iter(obj)
   except: return 0
   return 1
      
def is_string_like(obj):
   try: obj + ''
   except (TypeError, ValueError): return 0
   return 1

def is_scalar(obj):
   return is_string_like(obj) or not iterable(obj)

def flatten(seq, scalarp=is_scalar):
   """
   this generator flattens nested containers such as

    >>> l=( ('John', 'Hunter'), (1,23), [[[[42,(5,23)]]]])

    so that

    >>> for i in flatten(l): print i,
    John Hunter 1 23 42 5 23

    By: Composite of Holger Krekel and Luther Blissett
    From: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/121294
      and Recipe 1.12 in cookbook
   """
   for item in seq:
      if scalarp(item): yield item
      else:
         for subitem in flatten(item, scalarp):
            yield subitem

l = flatten([ ['hello',5], ['bye',2] ])

if 'bye1' in l: print 'Yep'
else: print 'Nope'

John Hunter


From jon at csh.rit.edu  Thu Nov 28 11:55:55 2002
From: jon at csh.rit.edu (Jon Parise)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:55:55 -0500
Subject: importing question ?
In-Reply-To: <slrnaucv6e.lr.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
References: <3de62963$0$214$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <slrnaucv6e.lr.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20021128165555.GB9913@csh.rit.edu>

On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 04:40:04PM +0000, Wojtek Walczak wrote:

> Dnia Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:35:47 +0100, Jonas Geiregat napisa?(a):
> > >>> import classes
> > >>> a = veryBigSnake()
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> [...]
> > and what is the difference between those two ?
> Try to find a white paper titled "Idioms and Anti-Idioms in Python".
> It was located on py-howto.sourceforge.net, but currently I don't 
> see it there.
 
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Reference/Products/ActivePython/howtos/doanddont/doanddont.html

-- 
Jon Parise (jon at csh.rit.edu)  ::  http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/



From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Wed Nov 27 22:20:46 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:20:46 -0800
Subject: Skipping EOFs when using file objects?
In-Reply-To: <KefF9.141133$WL3.63739@rwcrnsc54>
References: <KefF9.141133$WL3.63739@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <200211280320.TAA01596@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Wednesday 27 November 2002 18:32, Colin Cashman wrote:
> I'm building a decoder for yEnc files, but I'm hitting premature EOF
> characters (that is, I'm only 300 or 400 bytes into the file, when the
> file size is around 950 bytes).

Are you sure you are opening your files as binary?  If you are using Windows, 
you probably have to explicitly state it (and it is wise to do it anyway, to 
be explicit about it)

ie:

f = file( "my_file.ync", 'rb' )

When you get an EOF in binary mode (on any sane operating system, which is 
nearly all these days), it isn't a "character" in the file, but a result of 
metadata (contained outside the file) informing you when the file has no more 
characters to read.  So, you can't 'skip' over them; there would be no more 
data to skip to.

I suspect you are either encountering a 'text-mode' file processing problem 
(whixh is fixed by the above), or you are mistaken about what your code 
actually does and how much it actually reads.  So, post a follow up if it 
isn't cured by binary mode.

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk  Mon Nov 11 16:40:05 2002
From: gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:40:05 +0000
Subject: Efficient scanning of mbox files
References: <mailman.1037016554.21772.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <heenrdje.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk>

Martin Franklin <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> writes:

> I ran the above example on my Python folder (7000+ messages...)
> it took 12 seconds to process.  Then I changed the 
> if FROM_RE.match(line):
>
> to
>
> if line.startswith("From "):
>
>
> And got a 2 second speed up....  
>
> Then I slurped the file into a cStringIO.StringIO object and got it down
> to 5 seconds.....

OK, I did some tests, based on your suggestions, on a 90MB file with
30,000 messages in (the full python-dev list archive).

Reading the file line by line, as I started with: 61 seconds
Read the whole lot into memory: 30 seconds

This is a significant speedup, and well worth the savings. The problem
is memory, but I suddenly thought of the mmap module. Using the
in-memory code on a mmapped file took 28 seconds, not enough of an
improvement in time to be significant, but presumably the memory usage
is much better. (Does anyone know a way of doing memory usage analysis
of Python code? I'm guessing that I'd have to do separate runs to see
the effects - running multiple tests in a loop ain't going to work)

I can't do tests on this big sample including the cost of creating
email.Message objects, as I got an error (which may be a malformed
message, or a problem in the code - no time to check right now). But
on a smaller test case, using email at least doubled the time. Maybe
I'll 

FWIW, here's my test harness:

import email, email.Parser
import re

# Line starting with "from " ending with 4 digits (a year)
FROM_RE = re.compile(r"^from .*\d\d\d\d$", re.I+re.M)

P = email.Parser.Parser()

class Tester:
    def __init__(self):
        self.ids = {}
        self.groups = {}

    def test1(self, id, file):
        "Simple read through file with RE match"
        fp = open(file, "rb")
        posns = []
        oldpos = 0
        n = 0
        while 1:
            line = fp.readline()
            if not line: break
            if FROM_RE.match(line):
                n += 1
                posns.append(oldpos)
            oldpos = fp.tell()
        fp.close()
        posns.append(oldpos)
        self.groups[id] = (file, n, posns)

    def test2(self, id, file):
        "Slurp and scan with RE"
        fp = open(file, "rb")
        data = fp.read()
        fp.close()
        posns = [match.start() for match in re.finditer(FROM_RE, data)]
        n = len(posns)
        posns.append(len(data))
        self.groups[id] = (file, n, posns)

    def test3(self, id, file):
        "Mmap and scan with RE"
        import os, mmap
        fd = os.open(file, os.O_RDWR+os.O_BINARY)
        data = mmap.mmap(fd, 0)
        posns = [match.start() for match in re.finditer(FROM_RE, data)]
        n = len(posns)
        posns.append(len(data))
        data.close()
        os.close(fd)
        self.groups[id] = (file, n, posns)

    def test1e(self, id, file):
        "Simple read through file with RE match (create email object)"
        fp = open(file, "rb")
        posns = []
        oldpos = 0
        n = 0
        text = ""
        while 1:
            line = fp.readline()
            if not line: break
            if FROM_RE.match(line):
                msg = email.message_from_string(text)
                n += 1
                posns.append(oldpos)
                text = ""
            oldpos = fp.tell()
            text += line
        fp.close()
        msg = email.message_from_string(text)
        posns.append(oldpos)
        self.groups[id] = (file, n, posns)

    def test2e(self, id, file):
        "Slurp and scan with RE (create email object)"
        fp = open(file, "rb")
        data = fp.read()
        fp.close()
        posns = [match.start() for match in re.finditer(FROM_RE, data)]
        n = len(posns)
        posns.append(len(data))
        for i in range(n):
            start, end = posns[i:i+2]
            msg = email.message_from_string(data[start:end])
        self.groups[id] = (file, n, posns)

    def test3e(self, id, file):
        "Mmap and scan with RE (create email object)"
        import os, mmap
        fd = os.open(file, os.O_RDWR+os.O_BINARY)
        data = mmap.mmap(fd, 0)
        posns = [match.start() for match in re.finditer(FROM_RE, data)]
        n = len(posns)
        posns.append(len(data))
        for i in range(n):
            start, end = posns[i:i+2]
            msg = email.message_from_string(data[start:end])
        self.groups[id] = (file, n, posns)
        data.close()
        os.close(fd)

    def test1h(self, id, file):
        "Simple read through file with RE match (create email object - headers)"
        fp = open(file, "rb")
        posns = []
        oldpos = 0
        n = 0
        text = ""
        while 1:
            line = fp.readline()
            if not line: break
            if FROM_RE.match(line):
                msg = P.parsestr(text,1)
                n += 1
                posns.append(oldpos)
                text = ""
            oldpos = fp.tell()
            text += line
        fp.close()
        msg = P.parsestr(text,1)
        posns.append(oldpos)
        self.groups[id] = (file, n, posns)

    def test2h(self, id, file):
        "Slurp and scan with RE (create email object - headers)"
        fp = open(file, "rb")
        data = fp.read()
        fp.close()
        posns = [match.start() for match in re.finditer(FROM_RE, data)]
        n = len(posns)
        posns.append(len(data))
        for i in range(n):
            start, end = posns[i:i+2]
            msg = P.parsestr(data[start:end],1)
        self.groups[id] = (file, n, posns)

    def test3h(self, id, file):
        "Mmap and scan with RE (create email object - headers)"
        import os, mmap
        fd = os.open(file, os.O_RDWR+os.O_BINARY)
        data = mmap.mmap(fd, 0)
        posns = [match.start() for match in re.finditer(FROM_RE, data)]
        n = len(posns)
        posns.append(len(data))
        for i in range(n):
            start, end = posns[i:i+2]
            msg = P.parsestr(data[start:end],1)
        self.groups[id] = (file, n, posns)
        data.close()
        os.close(fd)

test = Tester()

methods = [name for name in dir(test) if name.startswith("test")]

from time import clock

for name in methods:
    meth = getattr(test, name)
    start = clock()
    meth(name, "2002-April.txt")
    # meth(name, "python-dev.mbox")
    end = clock()
    print meth.__doc__
    print "Elapsed time for", test.groups[name][1], "messages =", end-start

# Test we didn't mess up the file locations...
posns = test.groups[methods[0]][2]
for name in methods[1:]:
    others = test.groups[name][2]
    if others != posns:
        print name, "differs"


And here are the results on a 9M mailbox (python-list for April 2002):

>mbox.py
Simple read through file with RE match
Elapsed time for 5970 messages = 6.39456009226
Simple read through file with RE match (create email object)
Elapsed time for 5970 messages = 12.6123382686
Simple read through file with RE match (create email object - headers)
Elapsed time for 5970 messages = 10.0656287138
Slurp and scan with RE
Elapsed time for 5970 messages = 2.32596033128
Slurp and scan with RE (create email object)
Elapsed time for 5970 messages = 7.06059008601
Slurp and scan with RE (create email object - headers)
Elapsed time for 5970 messages = 4.6319295799
Mmap and scan with RE
Elapsed time for 5970 messages = 2.12352013356
Mmap and scan with RE (create email object)
Elapsed time for 5970 messages = 6.85222707014
Mmap and scan with RE (create email object - headers)
Elapsed time for 5970 messages = 4.43201372465

I've got some pretty good speedups here. Mmap and scan getting email
headers is faster than a line-by-line scan with no parsing :-)

Thanks for the help.
Paul.

-- 
This signature intentionally left blank


From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Fri Nov  8 04:20:16 2002
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 01:20:16 -0800
Subject: Virtual Filesystem (was: Adding ftputil to the Python distribution?)
References: <aq6kpl$td1$1@news.online.de> <mailman.1036573573.23006.python-list@python.org> <f199e60.0211070207.5ed58c25@posting.google.com> <slrnasle8i.v6v.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>
Message-ID: <f199e60.0211080120.5818779b@posting.google.com>

Jacob Smullyan <smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org> wrote in message news:<slrnasle8i.v6v.smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org>...
> In article <f199e60.0211070207.5ed58c25 at posting.google.com>, Stephan Diehl wrote:
> > Talking about a future VFS: is there already somethings planned? It
> > would be very nice to access a local filesystem, remote filesystem
> > (over ssh/scp), ftp server, webdav server,...  with the same set of
> > commands.
> 
> SkunkWeb has a vfs package (which can be used independently) that you
> might be interested in:
> 
> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/skunkweb/skunkweb/pylibs/vfs/
> 
> Features:
> 
> 1. implementations for local fs, ftp, zip/tar/tgz archives, and a
> "multifs" in which it is possible to mount other fses with
> considerable flexibility (for instance, it is possible for a mount to
> change its mount point dynamically, which is useful in the context of
> web server document roots, where you may want a document root to shift
> for a particular request while other mounts remain in the same place
> relative to that shift). 
> 
> 2. Writing a new fs is fairly trivial.  The interface is adequate for
> many needs, and supports read-only as well as read-write fses. 
> 
> 3. an import hook (using Gordon MacMillan's superb iu.py) which
> enables you to import python modules from any fs implementation. This
> is actually a big gain, from my point of view, as struggling with
> import hooks is something I'd rather do once and then forget about.
> Apparently Python Labs feels the same way, which is why we're still
> stuck with having to write them! 
> 
> There is some code, namely, PathPropertyStore and its illegitimate
> offspring, that you might as well ignore.  I was fiddling at one time
> with the notion of providing a general way of storing properties
> associated with vfs files, but came to the conclusion that this level
> of abstraction is not such a hot place, data-integrity-wise, to
> implement that.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jacob Smullyan

Thanks, that's excactly what I was thinking of/looking for. And it
shows to me that there is nearly nothing that has not been written in
one form or another. I'd really like to see a vfs in the standard
python distribution.

Maybe, one day, we'll have a central register for python libraries. It
seems to me that to many people (including me) are reinventing the
wheel all the time because they just can't find the right library for
the task at hand and just don't know project xyz that already solved
the problem (and doesn't show up when googling)

Cheers

Stephan


From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Thu Nov 28 12:54:06 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 17:54:06 GMT
Subject: Python JAR files?
References: <vrd5sa-bff.ln@mail.isnelson.com>
Message-ID: <slrnauclr9.180.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

Ian S. Nelson <nelsonis at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Has anyone built something like JAR files for python yet?  Any plans to?
> 
> As a packaging medium and for installing stuff on to machines it would
> be nice to have a python app that resides within one file.  tar.gz or
> .zip or something also compress quite nicely.

freeze, py2exe, Installer, cx_Freeze and the like create executable programs,
including the Python modules used. Maybe you're really looking for something
like these?

Apart from this, there's a patch in the Sourceforge patches section of the
Python project for importing from a zip file.
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Nov 19 15:22:39 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:22:39 -0500
Subject: PersistentList (ZODB)
References: <pan.2002.11.19.18.21.48.227528.710@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <3DDA9D8F.70401@rogers.com>

Python isn't variable-typed, it's object-typed...

    a = b

does not convert b to some particular type depending on 'a', and 
probably won't unless/until we also get (hopefully optional) type 
declarations for attributes.  However:

    a[:] = b

(replace all elements in a with the contents of b) might work for you. 
 Or, if you feel like it, you can use something like basicproperty, 
which allows you to declare that a particular attribute of an object has 
a particular type/class (and will be coerced to that type if necessary) 
so that:

    d.a = b

would do the conversion.  However, that only works with ZODB4 (with Zope 
3).  You could probably cobble something together with __setattr__ hooks 
for ZODB3 (Zope 2.x) that would do the same thing less elegantly.  I 
find, with basicproperty (which takes Python 2.2.2 properties and allow 
you to declare types, upper/lower-bounds and the like for them) and 
ZODB4 persistence is largely a "don't care" issue (modulo a few 
annoyances regarding transaction boundaries for long-running connections).

Good luck,
Mike

Thomas Guettler wrote:

>Hi!
>
>I use PersistentList v1.3 from Zope2.6.
>
>If I do the following
>
>mylist=PersistentList()
>type(mylist)
>mylist.append(5)
>mylist=[1, 2, 3] # (*)
>type(mylist)
>
>mylist is not a PersistentList anymore. Is there
>a way to change PersistentList that way that the line
>marked with (*) does not delete the PersistentList,
>but creates a new empty one?
>
>This would bring me one big step towards programming nirvana:
>     "Don't care for persistence!"
>
> thomas
>
>  
>

-- 
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 14 07:16:31 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:16:31 +0000
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037224998.20363.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD3941F.B65F3CB1@hotmail.com>

Cameron Horn wrote:

> Syntactic cruft bothers me; that's why I like Python so much.
> 
> If generators acted like other functions (i.e., could be used
> interchangably) I'd have no problem.  But they can't, so I'm bothered.

I completely see your point, and on reflection, I'm less certain now
that I'm not bothered by it.

It would be certainly be much nicer to specify a null generator using
something like this

gen null():
    pass

However, given that this has proven to be quite a contentious topic
before, and that people who are far more clever and experienced in
language design than I am were unable to reach a clear concensus on the
syntax issue, I think I'm not going to rush in where angels fear to
tread:
I think I'm happy just to live with the slight oddity of the current
syntax, and trust Guido's intuition. 

Here's an example of a thread discussing the subject that could have
turned nasty, if pythonistas weren't such nice people ;-)

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=mailman.1007665994.20287.python-list%40python.org&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dg:thl791252731d%26dq%3D%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3Dmailman.1007665994.20287.python-list%2540python.org

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org  Thu Nov  7 14:03:46 2002
From: smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org (Jacob Smullyan)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 14:03:46 -0500
Subject: Adding ftputil to the Python distribution?
References: <aq6kpl$td1$1@news.online.de> <mailman.1036573573.23006.python-list@python.org> <f199e60.0211070207.5ed58c25@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasle8i.v6v.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>

In article <f199e60.0211070207.5ed58c25 at posting.google.com>, Stephan Diehl wrote:
> Talking about a future VFS: is there already somethings planned? It
> would be very nice to access a local filesystem, remote filesystem
> (over ssh/scp), ftp server, webdav server,...  with the same set of
> commands.

SkunkWeb has a vfs package (which can be used independently) that you
might be interested in:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/skunkweb/skunkweb/pylibs/vfs/

Features:

1. implementations for local fs, ftp, zip/tar/tgz archives, and a
"multifs" in which it is possible to mount other fses with
considerable flexibility (for instance, it is possible for a mount to
change its mount point dynamically, which is useful in the context of
web server document roots, where you may want a document root to shift
for a particular request while other mounts remain in the same place
relative to that shift). 

2. Writing a new fs is fairly trivial.  The interface is adequate for
many needs, and supports read-only as well as read-write fses. 

3. an import hook (using Gordon MacMillan's superb iu.py) which
enables you to import python modules from any fs implementation. This
is actually a big gain, from my point of view, as struggling with
import hooks is something I'd rather do once and then forget about.
Apparently Python Labs feels the same way, which is why we're still
stuck with having to write them! 

There is some code, namely, PathPropertyStore and its illegitimate
offspring, that you might as well ignore.  I was fiddling at one time
with the notion of providing a general way of storing properties
associated with vfs files, but came to the conclusion that this level
of abstraction is not such a hot place, data-integrity-wise, to
implement that.

Cheers,

Jacob Smullyan


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Sun Nov 24 18:13:12 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:13:12 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
In-Reply-To: <aroa3m$vac$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3DDD711D.2000802@skippinet.com.au> <arl9cs$k6b$0@216.39.172.122> <3dde5012$0$4491$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3dde5e18$0$22192$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <THED9.3061$hg1.6331@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <aroa3m$vac$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <c2dE9.10384$hg1.21689@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 05:51:47 GMT, Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote:
> 
>>Also much easier for me to code ;)  Would only work for overlapped 
>>objects created via Python, but I think that is reasonable.  If a non 
>>Python overlapped structure is used, we pass the address of a static 
>>variable to ensure no one ever crashes.
>>
>>Sound reasonable?
>>
> 
> Under what conditions would a non-Python overlapped structure be used?
> Would a static restrict some kind of thread usage unacceptably?

I can't think of any case when a non-Python allocated overlapped 
structure would be used.  In fact I am not even sure it would be 
possible today even if you wanted to.  Using the static is just a safety 
net - it is unlikely to be what is desired, as the static is unavailable 
to Python code anyway.

Mark.



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 18 18:26:16 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:26:16 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <mailman.1037657646.16085.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD97718.326C399D@alcyone.com>

Brad Hards wrote:

> I think of (oldx, oldy = x,y) as forming a tuple (x,y), and then
> unpacking it
> to oldx and oldy.

That's wise, since that's exactly what it does :-).  In all seriousness,
there is no special syntax involved here; this is simply a result of
tuple construction, tuple unpacking, and the semantics of the assignment
operator.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Who's not sat tense before his own heart's curtain?
\__/ Rainer Maria Rilke
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From doc at goodweb.de  Sat Nov  2 08:07:25 2002
From: doc at goodweb.de (Thomas Korb)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 14:07:25 +0100
Subject: Tkinter in RH8.0
References: <ArCw9.2407$072.107557@newsfep2-gui>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.02.13.07.24.183824@goodweb.de>

On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 21:33:41 +0000, Stuart MacGregor wrote:

> 
> After installing RH8 the apps find 'from Tkinter import *' does not work.  
> RH 8 ships with python 2.2.1 and I have installed every shipped rpm that 
> might help.
> 

I am also using Python 2.2.1 w/ Tkinter on RH 8.0 and have no
problems at all. (Many of my apps use 'from Tkinter import *' etc.)

Are you sure you really did install all necessary RPMs?

When installing RH 8.0, I did not use one of the predefined
setups like 'Personal Desktop' or 'Workstation', but did a
customized install. So I do not know if Tcl, Tk, Tix and
Tkinter will be installed when you use a predefined setup.
(You know that you need Tcl/Tk for Tkinter, don't you? And
RH 8.0 wants Tix to be installed together with Tk.)

It might be helpful to post your exact error-message (traceback).

</Doc>



From bebert at tiscali.dk  Sat Nov 23 09:02:15 2002
From: bebert at tiscali.dk (Bjarke Dahl Ebert)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:02:15 +0100
Subject: Iteration of strings
References: <DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489@news010.worldonline.dk> <mailman.1038008911.28064.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ULD9.31649$HU.2394095@news010.worldonline.dk>

"Chad Netzer" <cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov> wrote in message
news:mailman.1038008911.28064.python-list at python.org...

> Use an assertion in your function (or script):
>
> def dont_allow_string_argument( s ):
>     assert not isinstance( s, type("") )

Yes, I do that all of the time - when I remember it.
It would be nice with a kind of:

    from __options__ import nostringiteration

which should have effect in the global namespace into which it is
imported -- just like __future__ imports.


Bjarke






From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sat Nov 16 16:51:10 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:51:10 -0500
Subject: [Announce] Gnosis Utils 1.0.5
Message-ID: <O3r19kKkXYgQ092yn@gnosis.cx>                

This release contains two major bugfixes, and several improvements:

   * gnosis.xml.pickle now works with PyXML 0.8.x (and earlier, of course).
   * Bugfix in handling of initargs in gnosis.xml.pickle.
   * Print warning during installation if xml.minidom is missing/broken.
   * (Packaging) Fixed generation of PKG-INFO.
   * Fix to let gnosis run in a standalone (e.g. py2exe) environment.
   * Improvements to xml.pickle.test suite
   * Documentation updates to xml.pickle.doc

It may be obtained at:
   http://gnosis.cx/download/Gnosis_Utils-1.0.5.tar.gz

The current release is always available as:
   http://gnosis.cx/download/Gnosis_Utils-current.tar.gz

Try it out, have fun, send feedback!

David Mertz (mertz at gnosis.cx)
Frank McIngvale (frankm at hiwaay.net)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
DIGRESSION:  A user proposed improvements to gnosis.indexer to enable
word-stemming and positional indices.  The latter would enable proximity
searches, although that is not yet implemented.  I find the proposed
code, however, in need of a bit of refactoring, and I have not tested
it.  If anyone wants this code to play with, let me know; if anyone with
more time than me wants to take on the actual refactoring and testing, I
would be overjoyed.  -dqm

------------------------------------------------------------------------
BACKGROUND:  Gnosis Utilities contains a number of Python libraries, most
(but not all) related to working with XML.  These include:

    gnosis.xml.pickle       (XML pickling of Python objects)
    gnosis.xml.objectify    (Any XML to "native" Python objects)
    gnosis.xml.validity     (Enforce validity constraints)
    gnosis.xml.indexer      (XPATH indexing of XML documents)
    gnosis.indexer          (Full-text indexing/searching)
    [...].convert.txt2html  (Convert ASCII source files to HTML)
    gnosis.util.dtd2sql     (DTD -> SQL 'CREATE TABLE' statements)
    gnosis.util.sql2dtd     (SQL query -> DTD for query results)
    gnosis.util.xml2sql     (XML -> SQL 'INSERT INTO' statements)
    gnosis.util.combinators (Combinatorial higher-order functions)
    gnosis.util.introspect  (Introspect Python objects)

...and so much more! :-)


SUMMARY:
<P><A HREF="http://gnosis.cx/download/Gnosis_Utils.ANNOUNCE">
Gnosis_Utils 1.0.5</A>  (16-Nov-02)





From support at internetdiscovery.com  Fri Nov  1 15:15:29 2002
From: support at internetdiscovery.com (Mike Clarkson)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 20:15:29 GMT
Subject: Combining Python/Tk & Tcl/Tk
References: <3dc23e70@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <3dc2df41.5568743@nntp.ix.netcom.com>

On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 18:35:37 +1100, Scott Smedley <scott at aao.gov.au>
wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I'm new to Python & come from a Tcl/Tk background.
>
>Is it possible to integrate/embed Python/Tk with Tcl/Tk?
>
>I've read about a project called Minotaur, but that seems to
>be dead ... really dead.
>
>I'm interested because I've developed part of a GUI in Tcl/Tk &
>a project partner wants to develop their part of the GUI in
>Python/Tk.
>
>Thanks for any help/pointers.


For a more complete example of calling Python from Tcl and
calling Tcl from Python look at IDEStudio
    http://starship.python.net/crew/mike/Idle/

You may be also interested the automatic wrapping of Tcl Tix
objects in Tixapps/Utils/ObjtixPython.tcl. The latter gives a fairly
easy upgrade path from Tcl to Python:

1) Firstly, objectify your Tcl code as much as possible by
creating Objtix classes and methods for anything in Tcl you
want to get at from Python. This will still run under Tcl,
and will only improve your Tcl code.

2) Use the automatic ObjTix wrapper to make these classes
and methods available to Python.


Mike






From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Nov 11 14:26:25 2002
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:26:25 -0500
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
 </f9z9ks/KbEa089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <hRA09ks/K3oP089yn@the-wire.com>

In article </f9z9ks/KbEa089yn at the-wire.com>,
mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) wrote:
>In article <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8 at posting.google.com>,
>a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya) wrote:
>> [ ... ]                                     find fibanicci series in
>>a single line of [Perl] code.
>>perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'

>   One-liner contests are noxious, but what the heck; the
>first 10, governed by the xrange ..

Well, one-liners clearly are not your forte.

>print reduce (lambda x,y: (x[1],x[0]+x[1], x[2]+[x[1]]), xrange(10), (0,1,[]))[2]

Pretty lame compared to

print reduce (lambda x,y: x + [x[-1]+x[-2]], xrange(10), [1, 1] )

right?

        Regards.        Mel.


From imbosol at vt.edu  Mon Nov  4 03:41:50 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 03:41:50 -0500
Subject: Is there a good checksum system for OPENBSD?
References: <mailman.1036391284.30056.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aq5e9a$pes$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

John D. wrote:
> I'm looking for a Program that compares md5 file checksums in a file
> against actual files and reports discrepancies.  A commercial
> program like "Tripwire" does this, but isn't there an Open Source
> program that can do this.
> 
> It would be a good thing to use for files in the /bin directories,
> and other places where one would not expect files to be changed, but
> would easily identify trojans, and other changes to executeable
> files and binaries.
> 
> I suppose it wouldn't be that hard to write this in Python or Perl.
> But how long would it take to checksum thousands of files?  John

I wrote a similar program in Python to keep my local web mirror synced
to the on-line version.  My web site has about 1200 files and 500
kilobytes, and my computer can md5 the whole site, when it's not in
the cache, in about 2 seconds or less.  When the site is cached, I
don't notice the delay as all.

I think the key to my program is that it mmaps the files rather than
reading them.

I think this is the kind of task that makes a good educational
project; it's not too complicated, but useful.  So it might be OK to
reinvent the wheel here if you want.  But, it might not be a good idea
to do this if you're going to use it for security.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From member at dbforums.com  Tue Nov 19 22:37:41 2002
From: member at dbforums.com (Tetsuo)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 03:37:41 +0000
Subject: Installation
Message-ID: <2066386.1037763461@dbforums.com>

A few days ago, Python simply stopped working. I tried reinstalling, and
it demanded that I log in as an admin, or it can't do some sys configs.
My mom tried to log in as an admin, and that was still not admin enough.
We concluded that the reason is the anivirus my mom installed. She
turned it off. No effect whatsoever. Same stupid message.

What the heck?

Win2K is the OS, Norton is the "anti" virus.

I'm at the end of my wit. As ususal.

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com


From holla-pub at gmx.de  Wed Nov 27 16:30:47 2002
From: holla-pub at gmx.de (Jens Wolk)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:30:47 +0100
Subject: ddd debugger ignores breakpoints
References: <as3d43$noicm$1@ID-146328.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <as3dev$noicm$2@ID-146328.news.dfncis.de>

Jens Wolk wrote:

> BTW, I evaluate ddd because I didn't find a way with pdb.py to display the
> line which it will evaluate next (and some lines before and afterwards,
> preferably). Is there a way to do this?

Ups, RTFM: the command is "list" or "l" for short.

However, any hints concerning the use of ddd are still very welcome ...

Jens Wolk


From arivu at qmaxtest.com  Thu Nov 14 03:12:27 2002
From: arivu at qmaxtest.com (Arivazhagan)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:42:27 +0530
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A744@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <000001c28bb5$9397dd60$18967dc8@arivazhagan>

Thank you Tim Delaney for your quick response.
regards
b.arivazhagan

-----Original Message-----
From: Delaney, Timothy [mailto:tdelaney at avaya.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 11:51 AM
To: 'arivu at qmaxtest.com'; python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: How to write Inline Functions in Python?


> From: arivu at qmaxtest.com [mailto:arivu at qmaxtest.com]

> Can any one please explain how to write a Inline Function in Python?

No. See below.

> Is Inline Functions available in python?

No.

I assume you're coming from C++. In that case, I suggest you take a good
hard look at why you want to write inline functions/methods anyway. If
you're doing it for performance reasons, your compiler is almost certainly
going to be better at deciding what to inline, and has the option to do so
unless you explicitly tell it not to. If you're doing for any other reason
(such as putting code in header files) I strongly advise against it.

Inline was developed when computers were slower and compilers were more
stupid. These days I see no need to inline whatsoever.

Tim Delaney




From wilk-spamout at flibuste.net  Fri Nov 29 05:50:15 2002
From: wilk-spamout at flibuste.net (William)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 11:50:15 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
References: <3DE4448E.5080201@attglobal.net> <pan.2002.11.27.20.00.00.396116@NOSPAM.optushome.com.au> <f199e60.0211290156.729446bc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87d6oo8xaw.fsf@flibuste.net>

stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl) writes:

> "David Mitchell" <djmitchell at NOSPAM.optushome.com.au> wrote in message news:<pan.2002.11.27.20.00.00.396116 at NOSPAM.optushome.com.au>...
> > On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:05:34 +0000, Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> > 
> > (snip)
> > > 
> > > What I'd like to be able to do is implement a complete GUI-based control 
> > > application (with buttons, slider, whatever widgets the app needs) 
> > > accessible over the web.
> > > 
> > > Is this possble with Python?  If so, where the best place to start looking?
> > 
> > I'm looking for exactly the same thing.  I know Perl has the
> > CGI::Widget::* modules which do pretty much exactly this, but I don't want
> > to use Perl for this particular project.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > Dave Mitchell
> 
> While researching the web about the same question, I found
> http://www.nextapp.com/products/echo/
> With that (ahem) Java Framework, it is possible (at least they claim)
> to write a web application just like a normal GUI application.
> On the Python side, at least Alex Martelli has thought about providing
> a HTML backend to anygui
> (http://anygui.sourceforge.net/platforms.php).
> If this ever worked it'd had the advantage to have one codebase for
> the webapp and a native GUI for the same app.
> If one is only looking into a way to separate HTML and programming
> logic, Cheetah (cheetahtemplate.org) can be used to write a kind of
> widget set.

For me, i search the opposite... Design a web application and running it
without external browser.
I mean embed a web browser like gecko or activex ?

Any idea to do it ?

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Sun Nov 10 03:30:45 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:30:45 -0800
Subject: Newbie- how to basics
In-Reply-To: <20021110060600.11888.4304.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021110060600.11888.4304.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18AnWh-0001KE-00@snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Saturday 09 November 2002 10:06 pm, python-list-request at python.org wrote:
> Tony C wrote:
> >?I've gone through much of the documentation included with Python
> >?2.2.2, but can find any kind of reference on how to clear the screen
> >?from a python script, or at the command line.

Any really cross-platform language is going to be vague on that sort
of point because it doesn't make sense everywhere.  A python program
might be running in an environment where it doesn't even have a
screen to clear, or in a GUI environment, web server, etc., where "clearing
the screen" would mean something really different from what I think
the OP meant.

> >?Another useful feature would be command line history (up arrow, down
> >?arrow, etc), like in the Unix shells.

="readline support", which is provided if you compile Python right
(I've never really understood why this is difficult, but it hasn't been
automatic on any system I've built Python on -- you have to edit
the Setup file).  There's documentation for doing this in the source
bundle.

> I just started looking monitoring this newsgroup with the thoughts that 
> I might want to learn python. ?It looks like a friendly group (unlike 
> comp.lang.c) It took me awhile to learn how to clear the screen in a C 
> program in Linux. ?What works there is the following:
> 
> system("clear");

import os
os.system("clear")

should do the same thing. But you're actually passing a clear
command to the shell.

> Let me know if this works for you in python. ?I think I will start learning 
> python. ?The user community seems friendly.

Nah, we're just luring you in. I secretly plan to roast you later. ;-D

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From deltapigz at telocity.com  Sat Nov 23 16:30:06 2002
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:30:06 -0500
Subject: Tkinter drag and drop
Message-ID: <3ddff34c$1_5@nopics.sjc>

i have a frame within a frame i want to "drag" it by a label i am trying
this:
(code is incomplete)

    def _MoveObjectFra(self, event):
        self.fraObjects.place(x=event.x_root, y=event.y_root-24)

    def __init__(self):
        winRoot = Tk()
        winRoot.title("Tkinter Builder (0.1a)")
        winRoot.geometry("%dx%d%+d%+d"%(800, 600, 1, 1))

        fraMain = Canvas(winRoot, bg="SystemAppWorkspace",
                         bd=2, relief=SUNKEN, width=800, height=600)
        fraMain.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=1)

        self.fraObjects = Frame(fraMain, bd=2, relief=RAISED, width=200,
height=400)
        self.fraObjects.place(x=2, y=2)

        lblObjects = Label(self.fraObjects, bd=2, relief=GROOVE,
text="Objects")
        lblObjects.place(x=2, y=2, width=191)

        lblObjects.bind('<B1-Motion>', self._MoveObjectFra)

it moves.. but the movement behavior is not what i want though, i have
googled and found one using the Canvas object, but i would like if all
possible to be done in a frame.

any help is greatly appreciated.

Adonis




From gumuz at looze.net  Thu Nov 14 10:36:34 2002
From: gumuz at looze.net (Gumuz)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:36:34 +0100
Subject: I thought I'd share; python&delphi
Message-ID: <3dd3c145$0$222$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

http://www.atug.com/andypatterns/pythonDelphiTalk.htm


found this, after a recent discussion (python gui rant)



cheers,
guyon




From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Nov 12 15:49:15 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:49:15 -0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote in
news:slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering at haering.opus-gmbh.net: 

> In article <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk at 216.168.3.44>, DaveP
> wrote: 
>> Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote in
>> 
>>> Of course I agree that the standard Docbook DTD wouldn't be
>>> sufficient and would need to be extended.
>>> 
>> 
>> Could you be more specific on this please?
>> Docbook's purpose is to document  software, so if you've
>> found a shortfall, I'm sure the docbook group would be interested in
>> filling any such gaps?
> 
> As far as I understand, it is quite normal to extend Docbook to meet
> specific needs. It's specifically designed to be easily extensible.
> 
>> What sort of extensions?
> 
> See MvL's message in this thread:
> 
> http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=m3bs5fbi7l.fsf%40mira.informatik.hu
> -berlin.de 
> 
> or, shorter URL:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/2mhm
> 
> many of these aren't supported by the Docbook DTD, yet. \seerfc, for
> example. 

That appears to insist on maintaining a solution to a problem?
I'm curious what the problem being solved is, and whether docbook
and its xml toolset could resolve it?

is \seerfc an external reference to an rfc?

<ulink href="url"> .... </ulink> appears to provide the same
functionality if that is the case.

regards DaveP





From whisper at oz.net  Tue Nov 26 17:45:44 2002
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:45:44 -0800
Subject: memory leaks in Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <P1SE9.29787$Hs2.4102912@kent.svc.tds.net>
Message-ID: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEGEEJGEAA.whisper@oz.net>

Edward;

This wasn't intended as a jibe at Leo. The memory leakage really does bug
me, and I think it's a programming error, not an underlying attribute or
flaw.

As we've discussed before, Leo chews up large chunks of memory when outlines
are expanded/collapsed, and even when the same sections of the outline are
expanded/collapsed, the memory usage grows by significant amounts. I don't
see how this relates to undo since there's no change in the text.

BTW, I think that the text widget in Tk 8.4 does support undo, but I'm not
sure since I'm not active in the Tcl area much anymore.

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Edward K. Ream
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 13:52
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: memory leaks in Tkinter
>
>
> Does this version of the Tk Text widget support unlimited undo?
> If so, text
> can not ever really be deleted and the widget will appear to
> leak.  Not all
> "permanent" uses of memory can be considered bad.
>
> Edward
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
> Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
> Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Nov  6 14:20:34 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:20:34 GMT
Subject: idiom for initialising variables
References: <3dc964fa$0$12989@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <6Ydy9.2837$h%5.101040@newsb.telia.net>

Rob Hall wrote:

> I'm just wondering on the correct python idiom for initialising variables.
> I see some code like this:
>
> class myClass:
>     self.a = 1
>     def __init__(self):
>         ...more stuff here

better make that:

class myClass:
    a = 1
    def __init__(self):
        ...more stuff here

> I also see:
>
> class myClass
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.a = 1
>         ...more stuff here
>
> Which is the correct idiom?  or is there a subtle difference I am missing?

the first form creates a class attribute, the second an instance
attribute.

class attributes are shared between all instances of the class.

when referring to an attribute in an expression (e.g. self.a on the right
side of an assignment), Python looks for it in the instance first, and looks
in the class only if it cannot find the attribute in the instance.

when assigning to an attribute (e.g. self.a on the left side), Python
always updates the instance.

you can use class attributes...

...if you really want a shared attribute (careful with mutable objects)

...if you have a couple of attributes that are usually not changed, and you
want to save a little memory (very little) and effort.

    class myclass:
        buffersize = 16384 # default
        def setbuffersize(self, buffersize):
            self.buffersize = buffersize

...if you have attributes that you may want to override in a subclass:

    class mysubclass(myclass):
        buffersize = 131072

...if methods you've added in a subclass needs additional attributes, and
you don't want to override the __init__ method:

    class mysubclass(myclass):
        encoding = "utf-8"
        def read_encoded_data(self):
            return self.read(self.encoding)

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov  7 22:25:35 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:25:35 -0800
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <270c68fe.0211071328.49f8abd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DCB2EAF.DEE7D6B6@alcyone.com>

Alan Green wrote:

> Is it just me, or does anyone else think it peculiar that someone
> '@esperanto.org' is championing a unified approach to language?

Now, now :-).  Esperanto is an auxiliary language, so its intend is to
be a second language that everyone learns in addition to their primary
tongue, rather than a replacement for it.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The conviction of wisdom is the plague of man.
\__/ Montaigne
    Church / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/church/
 A lambda calculus explorer in Python.


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov 27 21:20:43 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:20:43 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE040DF.EACC7D3A@kolumbus.fi> <yfsbs4ebhnl.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE2AEFE.BF188406@kolumbus.fi> <3DE2B626.6000009@nyc.rr.com> <uu7nuvsbgno1c7@news.supernews.com> <mailman.1038438422.29267.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE57D7B.D4A80CE8@alcyone.com>

holger krekel wrote:

> How does the introduction of 'yield' break old code?

If you had used a variable named yield, it won't work anymore.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ One cannot always be a hero, but one can always be a man.
\__/ Goethe
    Max Pandaemonium / http://www.maxpandaemonium.com/
 A sampling of Max Pandameonium's music.


From txo at cs.nott.ac.uk  Wed Nov 13 10:19:02 2002
From: txo at cs.nott.ac.uk (Turhan Ozen)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:19:02 +0000
Subject: Installing dislin (scientific data plotting software)
References: <3DD12A29.8B34ED2C@cs.nott.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DD26D66.C96D0C5F@cs.nott.ac.uk>

Marco from Fraunhofer Institut ILT, Aachen has provided the following
answer:

I have the same problem and have tried a few things. I tried a few IDE?s
and I think that dislin doesn't work correctly with the win32_all IDE,
the activepython distribution (witch is comes with the same IDE) nor it
works with the XEmacs mode correctly. The only environment that works
together with  dislin is as far as I know an have test it, was IDLE. But
there it works only if you open only one dislin window at the same time.

But if somebody else knows how to get it to work correctly with the
above mentioned IDE?s I will be very pleased about that, because I think
that dislin (together with the disipyl module) would be a very nice
plotting tool and worth the work.

Thanks Marco. You are right, it only works with IDLE and only with one
drawing window. Do you think this is a general thing or is it a
restriction for using with python. Dislin is not free with other
programming languages.

Kaleb wrote:

You can probably replace SET PYTHONPATH = C:\Program files\dislin\python

with SET PYTHONPATH = C:\progra~1\dislin\python

By using the dos compatibility mode most programs that don't recognize
spaces in the path work correctly.

Thanks for this information Kaleb, I tried it but still readme files
(dislin and readme) are not working. But I think this is not critical
because you can see them via notepad.

Is there any other recommendations either for using dislin or any advise
on a powerful plotting tool to use with python apart from dislin?
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From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 27 08:26:33 2002
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 05:26:33 -0800
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com>

The global statement as in

def f(x):
    global y
    ...

is a directive to the parser. Internally the parser must keep a list
of the "locally-globalled" names. Yes, you guessed right, out of pure
curiosity: is this list accessible from Python? If not, why not? :)

Hung Jung


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 15 08:20:41 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 14:20:41 +0100
Subject: some sort of threadsafe locale support
References: <ar2d8b$ali$1@nntp-m01.news.aol.com>
Message-ID: <m3vg2zklzq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Fran?ois Lepoutrre" <francois.lepoutre at seriatim.com> writes:

> Any threadsafe alternative to format numeric output
> is welcome :) Of course we could do it the
> dummy way writing our own formatting stuff.
> 
> Any clever alternative to "wheel-reinventing"
> for this simple but irritating issue?

If you are willing to contribute, I recommend that you look at the IBM
ICU library (international components for Unicode), and its Python
wrapper PICU, at 

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python-codecs/picu/

For the specific services you need, you will have to write the
wrappers yourself (since the existing wrappers wrap other parts of the
library). In return, you get a fully thread-safe,
multi-locales-at-time library. Don't forget to contribute your code
when done.

HTH,
Martin


From donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk  Tue Nov 12 11:08:53 2002
From: donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk (Donal K. Fellows)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:08:53 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DD12795.23E2F02F@man.ac.uk>

Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> The set of bytecodes which Parrot will be using has been decided, and
> while it's not fixed in stone, it's quite unlikely to get a whole other
> language's bytecodes added to it.

OK, let's go for a more concrete question.  What sequence of bytecodes would let
me open a socket and talk to a remote host?  The Parrot I/O operation opcodes
don't mention anything about sockets and nor can I tell how I would invoke a
piece of helper C or C++ to do the job on my behalf.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows   http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/   donal.fellows at man.ac.uk
-- The small advantage of not having California being part of my country would
   be overweighed by having California as a heavily-armed rabid weasel on our
   borders.   -- David Parsons <o r c @ p e l l . p o r t l a n d . o r . u s>


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Nov 14 09:40:54 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:40:54 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <mailman.1037224700.11546.python-list@python.org> <m3ptt9p0rw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ar0cso$iua$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 13 Nov 2002 23:23:15 +0100, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
wrote:

>> I think the questions should be "How many more people would write python
>> documentation if it where easy?"
>
>Easy to answer: Nobody. If you think otherwise, please name one person.

This is not covered by the title of this thread - I don't even know
what docbook is - but this little exchange caught my attention.

For me the format of the contributions to the Python documentation is
a non issue: If a special format like latex would be used it would not
stop me to add contributions, it could even be a challenge and thus
*increase* the likeliness of me contributing.

I don't mind that using diffs to propose source code changes -
although it's hard to do it this way using windows -  is necessary to
escape being an ignorant, and can survive being winked at. 

But I can't seem to get past sourceforge. 

It's not that I couldn't get past the sourceforge barrier if I would
like to do so but having to identify myself using a 128 bits security
key conflicts with my - maybe naive - notion of not looking a given
horse in the mouth. 

Of course, I myself do not accept all the "gifts" certain web pages or
email senders are trying to give me and therefore I can accept a
receiving party wanting to receive a gift only if it's in an unharmful
format.

But still a *donation* should not require the sender to identify with
such extreme security precautions.

To discriminate valuable contributions from spam a kind of spambayes
like procedure could be used, but spamprevention by raising the
squelch level is like sticking the head in the sand or like security
through obscurity.

Maybe I am completely on the wrong track here and in that case:
If someone could remove this little mental barrier for me, preferable
without using brain surgery, my changes of being able to contribute
documentation and source code fixes would increase dramatically.

Regards,
		Anton.


From username at ilt.fhg.de  Tue Nov 12 15:01:28 2002
From: username at ilt.fhg.de (username)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:01:28 +0100
Subject: Q: Name of a arbitary variable as a string?
Message-ID: <3DD15E18.F5A8905B@ilt.fhg.de>

Hi! 

Sorry, if this Question was asked a million times!

I am searching for a function (call it: var_name) that do something like
this: 

>>> V="Hello World"
>>> var_name(V)
'V'


I know how to get it from the locals() Dict. but this is not well
defined if I have a second variabe 

>>> T="Hello World" 

Thanks

Marco  
 

------------------------------------------------------------
# Dipl. Phys. Marco H?fer
# Fraunhofer Institut f. Lasertechnik 
# Steinbachstr. 15, D-52074 Aachen, Germany.
# Tel: + 49 (0) 241 8906 128, Fax: +49 (0) 241 8906 121
# EMail: hoefer at ilt.fraunhofer.de, WWW: http://www.ilt.fhg.de


From abuse at federal.gov.au  Fri Nov  8 06:03:37 2002
From: abuse at federal.gov.au (Dan)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:03:37 +1100
Subject: Point an MS Access / VB developer in the right direction...
Message-ID: <3dcb9830$1@duster.adelaide.on.net>

Hi all.

I've been an Access / VB developer for 5 years. I've run Linux at home 
for 3.5 years, and I think it's about time I learned how to program for 
Linux.
To start with, I would like to re-write some simple Access database 
front-ends from work (which connect to a MySQL & SQL Server backend) in 
Python.
Now I assume that I'm not going to find on open source IDE which allows 
me to set up a query and connect it to a grid to display on a form in 
'datasheet' mode (please correct me if I'm wrong). So where do I start?
Also I to choose a gui widget thingy set. I have looked at the 
boa-constructor IDE, which uses wxwindows. This would be nice in my case 
as it works on Win2k and Linux. Any thoughts on this? I am also 
considering buying Rekall from The Kompany. It seems to provide what I 
want, but it's commercial. It's not that I have a problem with using a 
commercial product, but if I have a reasonable open-source choice I'll 
take it.
Maybe someone has a link to a HOW-TO on making a simple data-aware form?
Any advice greatly appreciated.

Dan



From arivu at qmaxtest.com  Thu Nov 14 00:14:52 2002
From: arivu at qmaxtest.com (Arivazhagan)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 21:14:52 -0800
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
Message-ID: <c8476101.0211132114.1184ab6b@posting.google.com>

Hi
  Can any one please explain how to write a Inline Function in Python?
Is Inline Functions available in python?

Thank you,
regards
b.arivazhagan


From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 13 09:38:05 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:38:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: perl2python
References: <87y97xmy6o.fsf@flibuste.net>
Message-ID: <slrnat56fd.dv.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia 13 Nov 2002 13:49:51 +0100, William napisa?(a):
> I want to convert a little perl script to python, is there a tools for
> that ?
Haven't heard of something like that...

> or a little doc to learn the minimum of perl for python users ?
I can just give you an answer like for your question above,
but, my little proposition is to learn perl 'from scratch' :)
Just subscribe to comp.lang.perl.misc and read some manuals.
If you know python, it will be rather easy to learn perl, even
without documents like 'perl for python programmers' ;)

-- 
[ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ ]
[ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) underground.org.pl  ]


From tool_man at spamcop.net  Fri Nov  8 11:06:01 2002
From: tool_man at spamcop.net (Tim Lavoie)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 10:06:01 -0600
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9ROy9.7069$8P5.4238@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87y984avx2.fsf@theasylum.dyndns.org>

>>>>> "TG" == tonygreen  <Tony> writes:

    TG> My guess is that Lisp appeals to people who like predicate
    TG> logic and Python appeals to people who like to deliver
    TG> software.

    TG> Lisp has been the mainstay of a lot of traditional AI courses
    TG> for donkeys years, Python has been picked up by a lot of the
    TG> new generation of programmers who learnt their trade on
    TG> scripted web applications and needed something quick, clear
    TG> and flexible to get the job done as quickly and painlessly as
    TG> possible.

    TG> I'm not at all familiar with Scheme.

My guess is that Lisp doesn't appeal to those who fear anything which
"looks funny", and Python delivers some of the same benefits without
scaring anybody. 

New programming languages affect the way you think, some more
gradually than others. Python gives you a little syntax to get over at
first, but the funkier bits can lurk in the background until the user
is ready for them. Lisp is more of a leap at first, but popularity
aside, the mental exercise would do some good. Even if they decide not
to use it, people will have still learned something. Ditto for lots of
other languages too, especially the stranger ones. I still haven't
figured out how to slide some Intercal in at work though...  :)

-- 
Pascal is a language for children wanting to be naughty.
                -- Dr. Kasi Ananthanarayanan


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Nov 15 17:10:09 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:10:09 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037380711.27004.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD570C1.320D46B2@alcyone.com>

Dave Brueck wrote:

> It's funny what people do and don't find readable, huh? I use list
> comps
> all the time because to me they are almost always more readable than
> the
> equivalent code and more vertically compact as well. I wouldn't mind
> having a dictionary comp but don't need it nearly as much, even less
> so a
> generator comp.

Indeed.  Certainly list comprehensions take a little getting used to if
you've never seen one before, and they can be abused just like any
language feature can be abused, but I find the liberal use of list
comprehensions very readable and very compact.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You are in the music / In the man's car next to me
\__/ Sade
    Rules for Buh / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh.html
 The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.


From Walter.Speth at web.de  Thu Nov 14 16:48:35 2002
From: Walter.Speth at web.de (Walter Speth)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:48:35 +0100
Subject: SOCKS for Windows (where?)
Message-ID: <ar15nj$k9j$07$1@news.t-online.com>

I need to access an ftp server across a firewall.

to my understanding there is a SOCKSmodulearound from Daniel W. Connolly.
I was not successfull finding a compiled version for a windows system.
can some kind soul please point out that to me?

-walter





From guy at lightwork.co.uk  Wed Nov 27 10:44:08 2002
From: guy at lightwork.co.uk (Guy)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 07:44:08 -0800
Subject: popen / batchfile / environment variables
References: <are0ca$bm$07$1@news.t-online.com> <c07d0edc.0211200704.2e7a299c@posting.google.com> <3DDC7C0C.C4509EBA@felis.uni-freiburg.de>
Message-ID: <c07d0edc.0211270744.aab1faf@posting.google.com>

Joerg Woelke <dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de> wrote in message news:<3DDC7C0C.C4509EBA at felis.uni-freiburg.de>...
> Hi!
> 
> Guy wrote:
> 
> >     try:
> >         EnvVarValue=os.environ[EnviromentVarName]
> >     except:
> >         os.environ[EnviromentVarName]=""
> >         EnvVarValue=os.environ[EnviromentVarName]
> > 
> >     if EnvVarValue != "":
> >         EnvVarValue=string.split(EnvVarValue,Separator)
> >         for Value in ValuesList:
> >             EnvVarValue.append(Value)
> >         for Value in EnvVarValue:
> >             TotalEnv = TotalEnv + Value + Separator
> >         os.environ[EnviromentVarName]=TotalEnv
> >     else:
> >         for Value in EnvVarValue:
> >             TotalEnv = TotalEnv + Value + Separator
> >         os.environ[EnviromentVarName]=TotalEnv
> 
> os.putenv()
> 
> HTH, J"o!

I am aware of this. However when you work of as many different
platforms as me you find that this dosen't do what you need it to. The
function works well on all platforms that I work on. os.putenv()
don't.


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov 19 20:33:12 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:33:12 -0800
Subject: static variables?
References: <InCdnbV-jZTSfkegXTWcrg@ctc.net>
Message-ID: <3DDAE658.49A129DE@alcyone.com>

Joe Heafner wrote:

> I'm brand new to Python. Is there a way to have static variables in a
> function? By "static", I mean the variable's value is preserved
> between
> function invocations.

Check the other thread going on right now with exactly the same subject.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Guided by the blue light that takes you away / I'm on my way home
\__/ Neneh Cherry
    Bosskey.net: Counter-Strike / http://www.bosskey.net/cs/
 A personal guide to Counter-Strike.


From herrn at gmx.net  Thu Nov  7 17:43:31 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 22:43:31 GMT
Subject: how to define the size of a list?
Message-ID: <aqeqai$92dk3$1@ID-165840.news.dfncis.de>

Sorry if that is a stupid question, but I didn't find the answer in the
docu. I want to define a matrix (a 2-dimensional list) with a specific size.
But I didn't find a way to set the size of the list at creation time.

So how can I do this?

-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sat Nov 23 09:14:18 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 06:14:18 -0800
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211230614.502400e2@posting.google.com>

Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> wrote in message news:<3DDE711E.3010005 at web.de>...
> Michele Simionato wrote:

Oops! In the code I just posted I forgot to add the closing parenthesis:

return printEvaluation -->  return printEvaluation()

Sorry for the misprint,

Michele


From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov 10 13:33:40 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:33:40 GMT
Subject: wxPython and console window
References: <3DCEA524.70100@epost.de>
Message-ID: <8Exz9.18903$XO.900300@news2.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

Gerald Hein wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm completely new to Python. I've choosen to use wxPython as GUI.
> 
> Running a Python GUI-application (and using wxPython), is there any
> possibility to suppress the python console window ?

Sure, that's what pythonw.exe is for -- it's like python.exe, but
it doesn't give the Python application a console window.  Just name
your main application script whatever.pyw rather than whatever.py,
and the default interpreter used when you double-click on it will
become pythonw.exe rather than the normal python.exe.

Be sure to do it only when your app is fully debugged, since having
no console window means you don't get error messages, tracebacks &c
that normally can help you debug your app...


Alex



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 23 16:45:11 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:45:11 -0700
Subject: Post mortem debugging IDE
References: <3ddfde75$0$11752$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <aroo42$ilp$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <3ddff227$0$11740$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <arost7$lhd$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Irmen de Jong wrote:

>> Try IPython: http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython/
> 
> Thank you, but this is not exactly what I meant. (sorry I was not clear).
> IPython is a more of a "text mode IDE".
> While it looks very useful indeed, I actually was
> interested in graphical IDEs such as Komodo.
> 
> What I was looking for is an GUI based IDE with a debugger which has
> a variable watch window, a call stack window, source view ofcourse,
> and post-mortem capabilities. Komodo seems to have all but post mortem
> capabilities. Very strange because a post mortem debugger is part of
> Python, right (module pdb)?

Ah, ok. Then you may _still_ want to play with IPython for a moment :) Reason: 
the automatic pdb implementation is very straightforward, basically an 
assignment to sys.excepthook. You can look at how ipython does it and 
implement it for yourself in your favorite GUI IDE of the day.

Cheers,

f.


From martyn_quick at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Nov 28 08:32:54 2002
From: martyn_quick at yahoo.co.uk (Martyn Quick)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 05:32:54 -0800
Subject: Distributing python applications for Windows users
Message-ID: <d1134b83.0211280532.6e306f0c@posting.google.com>

What's the best way to distribute an application written in Python
(consisting of quite a few modules and using Tkinter/Pmw for GUI) so
that it can be used by someone who is using MS Windows without
requiring them to install Python itself?

What's the easiest way also?  (I ask this because many of you have
considerably more knowledge than me, and I might well find the best
way is way beyond what I can currently handle.)

Cheers,
Martyn


From gumuz at looze.net  Tue Nov 19 05:06:01 2002
From: gumuz at looze.net (Gumuz)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:06:01 +0100
Subject: Pickle problem
References: <fafC9.11796$D02.511999@castor.casema.net> <3DD9A03A.3090108@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3dda0b43$0$230$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

still stuck... anyone?


"Pierre Rouleau" <pieroul at attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3DD9A03A.3090108 at attglobal.net...
>
>
> Guyon Mor?e wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > i have a pickle problem, can;t figure it out :(
> >
> > i have a class called 'site'
> > site has a root 'folder' class
> > a folder class can contain 'pages' and other 'folder', ike a sort of
tree.
> >
> > now i have the open and save function done like this:
> >
> >
> > def Save(self, Filename):
> >         outFile = open(Filename,'w')
> >         pickle.dump(self,outFile)
> >         outFile.close()
> >
> >     def Open(self, Filename):
> >         inFile = open(Filename)
> >         self = pickle.load(inFile)
> >         inFile.close()
> >         print str(self.Root.Pages)
> >
> >
> > now i get the following error on the 'pickle.load' function:
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "E:\Development\Projects\Python\pyBlogg\pyBlogg.py", line 46, in
Open
> >     self = pickle.load(inFile)
> >   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 981, in load
> >     return Unpickler(file).load()
> >   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 596, in load
> >     dispatch[key](self)
> >   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 766, in load_inst
> >     klass = self.find_class(module, name)
> >   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\pickle.py", line 823, in find_class
> >     klass = getattr(mod, name)
> > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Site'
> >
> >
> > and yes, my module _does_ have a Site -class.
> >
> >
>
> Just a guess...
> The Open() function is nested inside Save().  Is it what you intended?
> If so, you may have a problem with the access to the Site class.
>
> --
>          Pierre Rouleau
>




From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Sat Nov 23 03:34:49 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:34:49 -0800
Subject: Newbie Q on searching lists
In-Reply-To: <20021123062101.14162.81514.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021123062101.14162.81514.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18FVn6-00043I-00@pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Friday 22 November 2002 10:21 pm,  Kenny Tilton wrote:
> The semantics I am coding happen to throw an error if a certain element 
> is found in a list, so i want to code:
> 
> ? ? if calculators.index[thisCalculator]:
> ? ? ? ?raise CircularDependency, thisCalculator

Did you mean this?

if thisCalculator in calculators:
        raise CircularDependency(thisCalculator)

Or maybe this?

if thisCalculator not in calculators:
   # put the unsafe code here
else:
   # alternate behavior for the special case here

(unless the condition is really rare so that it makes sense to treat it as an 
error).

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From paul.rudin at ntlworld.com  Mon Nov 11 16:20:56 2002
From: paul.rudin at ntlworld.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 21:20:56 +0000
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037014155.15486.python-list@python.org> <uel9sryab.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037025979.11547.python-list@python.org> <u4raorv6r.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037031266.12200.python-list@python.org> <m34raoneo6.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <mailman.1037047517.29353.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3r8drn6pz.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

>>>>> "holger" == holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:


 holger> if you are doing this often of course you could write a
 holger> helper...  but

But what kind of helper? Writing a function doesn't get round the
unnecessary evaluation problem. (Arguably it also doesn't entirely help
with the obfuscation problem either.)


 >> Personally I'd prefer to be able to write something like:
 >> 
 >> def foo(x,y,....): return func1(x,y,..) + if some_test:
 >> func2(x,y...)  else: func3(x,y..)

 holger> def foo(*args): return func1(*args) + (func2,func3)[not
 holger> some_test](*args)

Yah - I didn't mean to imply that the arity and order of the arguments
was necessarily always the same. But still, in some cases this will be
a useful thing. (Although again there's still the obfuscation issue).



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Nov 27 23:03:24 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:03:24 -0500
Subject: the real .pyc file
References: <mailman.1038246454.8932.python-list@python.org> <3DE45656.AFCBD01B@engcorp.com> <as350j$851$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3DE5958C.C5463EBC@engcorp.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:21:26 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> >Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes, I was bored.. ;-)
> >>
> >> int
> >> a=1//1;main=lambda:1
> >> +1;
> >> #define a
> >> int
> >> main()
> >> {a//a:a};import sys;printf=sys.stdout.write
> >> printf("Hello world!\n");a//a;{
> >> }
> >
> >Nice! :-)  I think I can safely say this is the first truly
> >obfuscated Python code that I've seen.  The funny thing is
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[1]
> >that the obfuscation primarily hides the fact that it even
> >*is* Python, because you can "of course" tell what it does
> >just by looking at it (if you know C).

> [1] It's also obfuscated C ;-)

I thought that part was obvious.  Given how C code looks
normally, I'd call this only _barely_ obfuscated, as far as 
C goes...

-Peter


From kosh at aesaeion.com  Wed Nov 27 12:25:30 2002
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh at aesaeion.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:25:30 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Browser differences Mozilla v IE
In-Reply-To: <d232c5e.0211270135.564df238@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211271023220.27021-100000@aesaeion.com>

On 27 Nov 2002, Chris Lyon wrote:

> I've been developing CGI python scripts for generating web pages which
> are served from IIS. I've been viewing them from IE successfully for
> sometime now.
> I've just downloaded and installed Mozilla and when I try to run the
> same pages from Mozilla it trys to download them and run them in a DOS
> window.
>  I'm rateh confused can anyone shed any light on where I should be
> tweaking to sort this out?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
Most likely you are sending a bad content type. Check and see what content
type you are sending to the browser. Sending bad content types does not
normally affect IE because it mostly ignores mime types and sniffs the
content instead however it is pretty much the only browser that will
ignore that stuff since the others adhere to specs.

Designing and building web applications http://webme-eng.com




From kkranabetter at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 20 13:38:16 2002
From: kkranabetter at yahoo.com (Kelly)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:38:16 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <areli6$ris$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnatlo5h.r3b.grante@localhost.localdomain> <arg8nn$kr2$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddba9d6$0$4464$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92CC6C36E20Ckkranabetter@24.71.223.159>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote in news:3ddba9d6$0$4464$a1866201
@newsreader.visi.com:

> time.  If I had a C compiler and knew how to write a simple
> console app for Win32, it would be easy enough to figure out
> how it really does work.  The Win32 guys I work with directly

Borland has a downloadable version of their command line C compiler 
somewhere on their web site. I used it when I needed a tiny app to change 
printer ports on Windows 9x machines (extending Pythonwin looked like too 
much of a chore and I don't have MS VC anymore). 

I also thought creating a console app would be difficult but it turns out 
to be easy: you just do standard C stuff (use main() and printf).

Kelly


From mrq at for.mat.bham.ac.uk  Thu Nov 28 11:06:49 2002
From: mrq at for.mat.bham.ac.uk (Martyn Quick)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:06:49 +0000
Subject: Distributing python applications for Windows users
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1038491740.29243.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1038491740.29243.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0211281604350.3218-100000@for.mat>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Simon Brunning wrote:
>  
> I like py2exe - <http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/>.

How exactly do you use py2exe?  Do I have to list all parts of my program
in the setup command, or just the script that I call to run it?

I did try using py2exe, but it complained that it couldn't find os.path
which I was importing.  I then switched to importing os instead and py2exe
then worked, but the exe file it produced didn't do anything.

Perhaps I've found a bug, but more likely I'm doing something wrong.

> Others
> prefer Installer - <http://starship.python.net/crew/gmcm/distribute.html>.

I'll give this one a go and see whether I have any joy.  How easy is it to
use?

Cheers,
Martyn

--------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Martyn Quick  (Research Fellow in Pure Mathematics)
University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK.
http://www.mat.bham.ac.uk/M.R.Quick/



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov 19 10:54:08 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:54:08 -0500
Subject: classifier systems re-coded in Python?
References: <mailman.1037670692.6438.python-list@python.org> <182dnaFhsdyUN0SgXTWcrg@comcast.com> <dwiC9.53310$Lg2.15307128@news2.news.adelphia.net> <pan.2002.11.19.00.12.09.986806@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <77ecndJt9Z0twUegXTWcpw@comcast.com>

"Jeremy Bowers" <newsfroups at jerf.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.11.19.00.12.09.986806 at jerf.org...
> import urllib
> import webbrowser
>
> def google(s):
>     webbrowser.open("http://www.google.com/search?" + \
>         urllib.urlencode({"q":s}))
>
> google('Holland learning classifier Python')

I didn't know about webbrowser (brings up default browser for system).
Above works great.  Off to library manual.  Thanks.

TJR




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov  7 00:45:25 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 05:45:25 GMT
Subject: Pydoc seem to ignore my comment
References: <7Lgy9.1510$P35.34492@news2.ulv.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <aqcull$rci$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:31:31 GMT, "Thomas Weholt" <2002 at weholt.org> wrote:

>If I do something like :
>
>class Test:
>    """
>    Lots of docs.
>    """
>    def __init__(self):
>        """
>        Docs here too
>        """
>
>    def go(self):
>        """
>        More docs.
>        """
>
>The doc-string just below the class-definition is included, all other
>doc-strings are ignored in the generated documentation. Why ????
>
>How must a declare my doc-string for them to be included??
>
I think pydoc is evolving. Do you have python 2.2.2? It produces:

[21:36] C:\pywk\junk>cat Test.py
class Test:
    """
    Lots of docs.
    """
    def __init__(self):
        """
        Docs here too
        """

    def go(self):
        """
        More docs.
        """


[21:37] C:\pywk\junk>python D:\Python22\Lib\pydoc.py .\Test.py
Python Library Documentation: module Test

NAME
    Test

FILE
    c:\pywk\junk\test.py

CLASSES
    Test

    class Test
     |  Lots of docs.
     |
     |  Methods defined here:
     |
     |  __init__(self)
     |      Docs here too
     |
     |  go(self)
     |      More docs.
     |
     |  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     |  Data and non-method functions defined here:
     |
     |  __doc__ = '\n    Lots of docs.\n    '
     |
     |  __module__ = 'Test'

DATA
    __file__ = r'.\Test.py'
    __name__ = 'Test'

Note the '.\' in the path spec. Apparently pydoc needs an explicit path to direct it
to a file in the current working directory.

BTW, you may be interested in additional formatting goodies described at
   http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/rst/quickref.html
as well.

HTH.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Nov 19 08:26:31 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 08:26:31 -0500
Subject: stopping SimpleHTTPServer
In-Reply-To: <rllC9.1167$Kw6.763611@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
References: <rllC9.1167$Kw6.763611@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <oqptt1g06w.fsf@carouge.sram.qc.ca>

[dsavitsk]

> I have an application built on BaseHTTPServer.  Much of the code
> is borrowed from SimpleHTTPServer (hence the subject).  In general,
> it runs on its own, but it can serve an admin web page and respond to
> requests made therefrom.  The problem I am having is that I can't kill
> it remotely.  I put in a sys.exit(), but that didn't do any good. Can
> anyone suggest a good way?  Actually, I would like a way to kill it
> from a command line as well.

One may use some special URLs as triggers to the server.  In more complex
applications, you might combine the above idea with HTML forms meant to
drive the server itself.

Another possibility, that you could implement independently of the two
above, is to trap some signals in the server that could be sent externally,
then set flags to be obeyed at the next interaction.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From duanek at chorus.net  Mon Nov 25 15:03:21 2002
From: duanek at chorus.net (Duane Kaufman)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 12:03:21 -0800
Subject: Gnuplot on Windows
References: <mailman.1037891609.5202.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <59023571.0211251203.69774b2c@posting.google.com>

"Paul Simmonds" <psimmo60 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1037891609.5202.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi folks,
> 
> I've got a graphical application that uses Michael Haggerty's
> Gnuplot-py extension. On Unix, this works great (thanks Michael) by basing 
> IO on a popen command.
> 
> The Windows version of gnuplot is a GUI app, so a stdin stream is created by 
> wrapping it in a console app using the PostMessage Windows API command (done 
> through the public domain pgnuplot program).
> 
<Error trace and debugging snipped> 

I too had this problem. I had to change the call to pgnuplot to
include the full path to the program (rather than having it simply on
the path), and got things to work (whoo-Hoo!) using gnuplot 3.8i for
Windows (under Win2k).

Hope this helps,
Duane


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Nov  4 08:15:26 2002
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:15:26 +0000
Subject: Tkinter File Dialog Question
In-Reply-To: <6747bc9d.0211040501.2e8000b5@posting.google.com>
References: <6747bc9d.0211021953.4fd02462@posting.google.com>
 <l7px9.9$pU4.435@news.get2net.dk>
 <6747bc9d.0211040501.2e8000b5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1036415728.1268.17.camel@m-franklin>

On Mon, 2002-11-04 at 13:01, Steve Zatz wrote:
> Jorgen,
> 
> Thanks much for the response.  I wasn't aware that there was a
> defaultextension option.  Unfortunately, it doesn't quite solve my
> problem.  I am providing the users with several extension options (eg
> xml, txt) and they are selecting one of those options and then
> (understandably) creating a file name without an extension assuming
> that it will pick up the extension they have selected.  However, I
> don't see any way to get at their extension selection since the Dialog
> only seems to return the filename they input.
> 
> 
> 
> > you can use the option: 'defaultextension'. Example
> > 
> > >>> import tkFileDialog
> > >>> res = tkFileDialog.asksaveasfilename(defaultextension=".txt")
> >  (user types in "myfilename")
> > >>> res
> > 'myfilename.txt'
> > 
> > Remember the dot in the extension string. I just tried and it works, 
> > unless the user selects a filename that already exist.
> > 
> > Regards
> > Jorgen Cederberg
> -- 

Steve,

Have you tried this.  On my linux (RedHat 8.0) python 2.2.2
I can supply a list of filetypes to the tkFileDialog and when the user
only types a file name (no extension) the selected extension is appended
to the returned filename.  :-




>>> import tkFileDialog
>>> filename = tkFileDialog.asksaveasfilename(filetypes=[("text files",
"*.txt"),
...     ("python source code", "*.py")])

<<< users types aaaa and selected *.txt as file type>>>>


>>> print filename
/usr/python/scripts/aaaa.txt



Regards
Martin











From mathew at fugue.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Nov 12 17:19:19 2002
From: mathew at fugue.jpl.nasa.gov (Mathew Yeates)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:19:19 -0800
Subject: Python in Practice
Message-ID: <3DD17E67.4040602@fugue.jpl.nasa.gov>

Hi

I just read an article by Tom Babbitt in the
latest Python Journal http://pythonjournal.cognizor.com/
entitled Writing the Global Digital Elevation Model Viewer (GlobalDEMV) 
Application in Python: A Pythonic odyssey

I thought I might add a note about my work. For the
Shuttle Radar Topography Mission (SRTM) http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm
we have digital elevation data at 30 meter resolution and
I have written a QA tool in Python.

I used Numpy, PyOpenGL, PyGTK and SciGraphica, and Swig. Of course,
some parts had to be written in C but the amount of
non Python code is fairly small.

My application features
A. Real time 3D rendering using OpenGL and a per pixel
illumination algorithm. Features rotation, zooming, translation,
azimuth and elevation manipulation.
B. 2 D image processing algorithms implemented in OpenGL
C. Color maps, gradients (with the gradient editor ripped
from Gimp and recoded in python)
D. Online help using the helpviewer supplied with WxPython.
E. Slice plots showing terrain changes across a user drawn line.
F. Height values displayed in a pixel box for a neighborhood about
the cursor.

Sort of a mini Erdas but my 3D rendering is much faster.

For more information, feel free to contact me.
Mathew Yeates
mathew at comma.jpl.nasa.gov



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sat Nov 23 19:28:35 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:28:35 +1100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A777@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Alexander Schmolck [mailto:a.schmolck at gmx.net]
> 
> [Aside: the fact that for python dicts one iterates over keys 
> rather than
> values seems like a wart to me, most likely caused by the 
> absence of a set
> type (now in 2.3), and the consequent frequent abuse of dicts 
> to represent
> sets. The resultant unnecessary discrepancy between the 
> interfaces of mapping
> and sequence types is somewhat annoying.]

I OTOH fall firmly in the category of people who prefer 'for x in dict' to
iterate over the keys. In my own code I rarely use 'dict.values()', but very
often use 'dict.keys()'. I am more likely to use 'dict.items()' than
'dict.values()' and think this would have been the other logical choice for
iteration over a dict (i.e. returning key, value).

The most common case should be used for the shortest form.

Tim Delaney



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Mon Nov 25 06:31:24 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:31:24 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
In-Reply-To: <slrnau2r6r.8rf.grante@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3DDD711D.2000802@skippinet.com.au> <arl9cs$k6b$0@216.39.172.122> <3dde5012$0$4491$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3dde5e18$0$22192$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <THED9.3061$hg1.6331@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <slrnatv9r8.td7.grante@localhost.localdomain> <u4dE9.10391$hg1.21689@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <slrnau2r6r.8rf.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <gSnE9.12276$hg1.30226@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> In article <u4dE9.10391$hg1.21689 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>, Mark Hammond wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>Also much easier for me to code ;)
>>
>>>When in doubt, do whatver is simpler.
>>
>>Yes, good philosophy.
>>
>>How about I make a deal with you - I will add this support, and you
>>translate your C++ code that demonstrates the mask change into Python 
>>once this is available?  The next win32all is about due anyway.
> 
> 
> Sure.  Is the mask object returned by an overalapped read going to know how
> to turn itself into an int (analogous to the way it knows how to turn itself
> into a string), or do I need to access individual bytes and do that in
> user-code?

You will just access a "dword" attribute on the overlapped, and you get 
a Python integer back.  I decided to call it "dword" rather than "flags" 
as flags has implications best avoided.

There are no changes to the args or return type of WaitCommEvent.  If 
you pass an overlapped structure, the dword from this structure is 
passed in, and *also* returned from the WaitCommEvent function.  In this 
case, you would tend to ignore the mask value, but I see no good reason 
to special case the return value of WaitCommEvent based on if an 
overlapped object was passed.  There is also no need to pass a static in 
any case, overlapped or not - so everything seems pretty neat.

I will try and get a new win32all out soon.

Mark.




From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Fri Nov 15 14:52:19 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:52:19 GMT
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <4STA9.9987$744.345722@news1.tin.it> <jc58tugirbnbtn1i7e2kf7of4l3ltt665e@4ax.com> <mailman.1037315122.20415.python-list@python.org> <3DD44152.69795B9F@alcyone.com> <mailman.1037334449.14338.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t3iatu891qt9n74hfld92cnqgmmgg02jdv@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:25:32 -0800, "James J. Besemer"
<jb at cascade-sys.com> wrote:
(edit)
>In any case, I agree Pocket reference guides are at best a poor metric for 
>comparing language complexity.   I only mentioned the others because Mr. 
>Garcia cited it as evidence that Python is "small" and I offered what were 
>intended to be seen as counter examples.

I own a laminated foldout cheatsheet for Perl that is six pages long.
Obviously it is not the only reference I use for Perl.  I mention the
Python Pocket Reference because its 124 4"x7" pages gets me farther
with productivity than 248 or 372 pages of documentation in other
languages I use.
I suppose a Forth manual could be written on an index card with a
crayon.  I will plead that the metric I should used was the ratio of
daily referenced documentation versus productivity in varied
programming tasks.  Python's ratio is pretty darn good, the best I
have found.

Manuel


From lists at battleface.com  Wed Nov 20 21:35:28 2002
From: lists at battleface.com (Alexander Sendzimir)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:35:28 GMT
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.21.01.44.49.690023@battleface.com>

So, with the help of those that responded, I'm posting my preferred
solution to the original question of this thread which is, "how does one
apply multiple regexs to a single line as in a compiler in Python?"

There are several ways of solving this problem and each has its merits.
Please see my NOTE AT END about this.

Here's the generalized version:

<code>

import re

#
# define handlers for each matching pattern:
#

def reHandler1 ( matchObject ) :
    # do something with matchObject

def reHandler2 ( matchObject ) :
    # do something with matchObject

  .
  .
  .

def reHandlerN ( matchObject ) :
    # do something with matchObject


#
# associate the regular expressions with their handlers
# in a list of tuples (pairs). The order of the pairs is
# the order in which matching will take place. Like lex.
#

regexs = [
    ( re.compile( r'...' ), reHandler1 ),
    ( re.compile( r'...' ), reHandler2 ),
      .
      .
      .
    ( re.compile( r'...' ), reHandlerN ) ]


#
# now, match each regular expression in turn against the current line.
# When a match is found, break to the next line. Lines comes from
# where ever you want it to.
#

for line in lines :
    for ( regex, handler ) in regexs :
        mo = regex.match( line )
        if mo :
            handler( mo )
            break
        else :
            # did not match this expression
            pass

</code>



NOTE AT END

There are a number of different ways of solving this problem. Several have
been discussed in this thread. This is my preferred approach because it's
clean and simple in my opinion and makes use of a minimal knowledge
foundation. I like the fact that it is made up of only three parts: [1] the
handler definitions, [2] the regexs list, and [3] the matching loops.
Finally, each of these parts is consistent and relatively easy to understand.
I'm posting this solution because I feel it might be of use to others whether
new or experienced since I haven't been able to find any relevant information
on this topic in this news group.




From mike at skew.org  Sat Nov 23 05:49:03 2002
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 03:49:03 -0700
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org> <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com> <arksfq$bdp$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi> <arm32g$icu$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3ddf5d20$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>

> I'm not sure it's a good experiment to eliminate too many things at once.
> I.e., how do you know how much you gained by going to os.read and how much
> you gained by buffering via bytea.append instead of having urllib do it
internally?

If I use a string or buffer object with "+=" instead of an array,
performance drops significantly:

import urllib, time, os
starttime = time.time()
u = urllib.urlopen('http://localhost/4MBfile')
fn = u.fp.fileno()
bytes = 1
allbytes = ''
while bytes:
    bytes = os.read(fn, 16 * 1024)
    allbytes += bytes
u.close()
endtime = time.time()
elapsed = endtime - starttime
length = len(allbytes)
print "bytes: %.1fK; time: %0.3fs (%0d KB/s)" % (length / 1024.0, elapsed,
length / 1024.0 / elapsed )

bytes: 4241.5K; time: 5.809s (730 KB/s)


If I use cStringIO, it's much better, but still about 2 to 5 MB/s slower
than Jarkko's byte array:

import urllib, time, os, cStringIO
starttime = time.time()
u = urllib.urlopen('http://localhost/4MBfile')
fn = u.fp.fileno()
bytes = 1
allbytes = cStringIO.StringIO()
while bytes:
    bytes = os.read(fn, 16 * 1024)
    allbytesf.write(bytes)
u.close()
allbytes = allbytesf.getvalue()
allbytesf.close()
endtime = time.time()
elapsed = endtime - starttime
length = len(allbytes)
print "bytes: %.1fK; time: %0.3fs (%0d KB/s)" % (length / 1024.0, elapsed,
length / 1024.0 / elapsed )

bytes: 4241.5K; time: 0.419s (10127 KB/s)


So the byte array.append() approach with ''.join() afterward (which is
surprisingly fast) seems to be the clear winner. On to the sockets...




From stuart at bmsi.com  Mon Nov 18 15:19:47 2002
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:19:47 GMT
Subject: Pythoncal, anyone? (My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syn tax (PEP 255))
References: <mailman.1037632923.21813.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <DXbC9.17271$0U1.1680572@news2.east.cox.net>

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:15:51 -0500, sismex01 wrote:

>> I have an idea: Suppose there were a "don't" statement that could be
>> put in front of another statement to, effectively, comment it out, e.g.
>> 
>>   def foo():
>>     # This function does nothing
>>     don't print "Hello"
>> 
>> Then an empty generator could be written
>> 
>>   def g():
>>     don't yield None

Python already has a "don't" statement.  It is spelled "if 0".

def null(): if 0: yield None

Tested with python-2.2.2, and works perfectly.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.


From roy at panix.com  Sat Nov 23 09:46:48 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:46:48 -0500
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <3DDF1DD2.BD4AC765@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <roy-C20800.09464823112002@reader1.panix.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> The min and max builtins just test for this ordering, so None has no
> special significant in this context.  If you mix a None in with, say,
> integers in a call to min or max, either it will always be the min and
> never the max, or it will always be the max and never the min (again,
> which one is an implementation detail).

Actually, I'm not convinced the published docs promise even that.  
Quoting from http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/comparisons.html, it 
says:
 
> Objects of different types, except different numeric types, never compare 
> equal; such objects are ordered consistently but arbitrarily (so that sorting 
> a heterogeneous array yields a consistent result). Furthermore, some types 
> (for example, file objects) support only a degenerate notion of comparison 
> where any two objects of that type are unequal. Again, such objects are 
> ordered arbitrarily but consistently.

All it really says is that if you compare two arbitrary objects twice, 
you'll get the same result both times.  There's nothing in the above 
that promises that objects are compared first by type, then by value.  
It's not illegal for "1 < None < 2" to be true.  Diabolical, perhaps, 
but not strictly illegal.

In fact, there are already examples where type is not compared first; "1 
< 1.5 < 2" is true.


From costanza at web.de  Sat Nov  9 13:42:17 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 19:42:17 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7b8f89d6.0211081548.f91b468@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqjku8$njc$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

larry wrote:

> Why do SOME people think Lisp is a fantastic programming langugae?
> Are we missing something?

Someone at comp.lang.lisp pointed out that this discussion is going on 
here at comp.lang.python. I have recently switched over to Common Lisp 
as my language of choice and have written an article about it, to be 
found at http://www.pascalcostanza.de/lisp/guide.html - you might find 
it worthwhile.

BTW, I am currently writing a just-in-time compiler for Java bytecode in 
Common Lisp - I believe that a similar Python-in-Common-Lisp 
implementation along these lines could be extremely valuable for both 
the Python and the Common Lisp world...


All the best,
Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From bdesth at nospam.free.fr  Mon Nov 18 21:21:02 2002
From: bdesth at nospam.free.fr (laotseu)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:21:02 -0500
Subject: My Python Editor "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE" doesnot
 refesh
References: <mailman.1037422524.22358.python-list@python.org> <utcha6tcots2ce@news.supernews.com> <3DD7587E.40607@nospam.free.fr> <3DD70F40.1040703@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3DD9A00E.8050801@nospam.free.fr>

Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> 
> 
> laotseu wrote:
> 
>> <troll>
>>   the One True Answer lies in two (2) words : Use Emacs
>> </troll>
>>
>> Laotseu
>> -- 
>> Ye Old Master Said :
>> "Use Emacs"
>> -- 

<OT rate=absolutely>
> 
> Or, use CRiSP, which supports python.
Emacs does too. python-mode.el

> You can run python interpreter in 
> one (or several) windows right beside your code and then easily test it. 
Emacs does too. python-mode.el, or <meta>+x 'shell', then 'python' for 
an interactive session.

> CRiSP runs on several platforms.
Emacs does too.

</OT>

Sorry you all for the OT.

Laotseu



From grante at visi.com  Fri Nov  8 23:53:13 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 04:53:13 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnasmgl7.1dn.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <3dcc7e2c.3568851 at news.earthlink.net>, engsol at teleport.com wrote:

> I've read the books, tried some code, and I still just don't get it.
> 
> If some kind soul can explain the (high level) process, I can figure out the
> details, I think.
> 
> What I want to do is call (or invoke) a C exe from Python, and return the
> results to Python. Or pass values of some sort to the C exe, and again have
> Python trap the returned results. I'm a long way from the concept of shared
> variables. <grin>

What you're talking about isn't "extending Python".  It sounds like you want
to run an external executable program (it doesn't matter what language it's
in).

Take a look at os.system() or the popen family of funtions.

> The first stumbling block is that the books offer examples of C code which
> don't seem to have a main(). My compilers don't care for that too much.

Your C compiler cares not a whit whether there's a main() or not. I suspect
that your linker combined with your default C run time libraries do, though.

> I took a quick look at SWIG, but to be honest, I didn't understand how to
> use it. Again, I need the high level concept.
> 
> The second problem is the concept of translating PyObjects to C and vice
> versa. As I say, I just don't get it yet.

If you've looked at existing C extension code and "don't get it", then I'm
not sure where you should start.  Are you familiar with C programming?  Do
you know how to develope a dynamic library module?

> The third problem is that the books spend one paragraph on the Python/C
> code, usually for Linux, then three pages on reference counts. Do I really
> have to worry about them, or not?

Maybe.  Maybe not.

> I'm using Python 222 on NT. If I understood how to do "Hello world" (in C,
> called from Python), I might be able to go from there.

Sorry, I don't know anything about NT.  In Linux you create a .so shared
library that follows certain API conventions.  Then it gets dynamically
loaded by the Python interpreter when you "import" the module.  Python calls
functions in your C code (and your C code probably calls functions in the
Python interpreter).  

> In case you're interested, the reason I need to learn this is that my
> company is in dire need of a new software test tool. I'm convinced that
> Python is the right scripting language for the testers, and will be best in
> terms of maintainabilty and enhancement, no matter if the platform is
> NT/2000/Linux. We have a huge library of legacy C code which we can re-use
> as is, assuming I can learn to marry Python and C.

Maybe you do want to extend Python.  Do you want to add new data types that
are implimented in C?  Do you want to use C code to perform operations on
Python data types?

> BTW, I'm a diehard Python convert! (But my family doesn't know yet, so keep
> it under your hat please)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  What I want to find
                                  at               out is -- do parrots know
                               visi.com            much about Astro-Turf?


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Nov 21 21:18:04 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:18:04 -0600
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
In-Reply-To: <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com>
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org>
        <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122>
        <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <15837.37852.151741.81837@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Mike> As was pointed out, all the delay is in the reading, and it really
    Mike> only happens when dealing with these file-wrapped sockets as
    Mike> returned by urlopen(). They can be on the localhost, even.

What happens if you reach into the file wrapper and grab the raw socket?

    Mike> Result on Mandrake 8.1, Python 2.1.1:
    Mike> bytes: 4343332; time: 0.141s (29992 KB/s)
    Mike> ...and subsequent runs are about DOUBLE that speed.

    Mike> Result on FreeBSD 4.7, Python 2.2.1 (on comparable hardware):
    Mike> bytes: 4343332; time: 9.404s (451 KB/s)
    Mike> ...and subsequent runs are the same speed.

This suggests it's a FreeBSD problem more than a Python problem.

    Mike> def listen():
    Mike>     try:
    Mike>         (conn, addr) = sock.accept()
    Mike>         starttime = time.time()
    Mike>         fd = conn.makefile('r')
    Mike>         bytes = fd.read()
    Mike>         elapsed = time.time() - starttime
    Mike>         l = len(bytes)
    Mike>         print "read %d bytes in %0.3fs (%d KB/s)" % (l, elapsed,
    Mike> l/1024./elapsed)
    Mike>         conn.close()
    Mike>     except:
    Mike>         raise

Again, what happens if you read from the socket instead of the file object
returned by makefile()?  Also, what happens if you break the read up in to a
loop, reading smaller chunks?

Did you build Python with or without pymalloc?  Can you try the opposite?

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From clpy at a-nugget.de  Tue Nov 26 16:08:01 2002
From: clpy at a-nugget.de (Guido Goldstein)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 22:08:01 +0100
Subject: readability statistics
References: <mailman.1038339581.15179.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2r8d8t4y6.fsf@mail.a-nugget.de>

Hi!

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:34:19 -0800
  Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> wrote:
> > Does anybody know where I can find a module
> > which calculates some python code readability statistics.
> > Like for example:
> > % comment lines.
> > average line length
> > average module number of lines
> > etc...
> 
> I don't know if such a utility already exists or not, but you could
> probably write one in less than an hour. Look at the tokenize module. 

There is at least this:
  http://starship.python.net/crew/gherman/playground/pycount/

Should be a good starting point.

HIH
  Guido


From Henrik.Weber at sys.aok.de  Thu Nov 21 05:21:54 2002
From: Henrik.Weber at sys.aok.de (Henrik Weber)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 02:21:54 -0800
Subject: My Python Editor "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE"  does not refesh
References: <mailman.1037497284.10353.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7e964d1d.0211210221.30693c0c@posting.google.com>

Tony Cappellini <tony at tcapp.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1037497284.10353.python-list at python.org>...
> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:06:41 GMT
> 
>  >I am having the trouble of having to exit the editor every time I make
>  >some changes to my code in order to execute the code using the
>  >"ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE" editor.
> 
> I'm having this same problem with PythonWin.  I've even posted a message on 
> the PythonWin mailing list, but without any resolve.
> http://www.python.org/windows/pythonwin/
> 
> I usually have to close down the IDE and re-open it, because PythonWin just 
> won't reload the module, even though I've clicked on the reload button.

Sometimes the reloads a module and sometimes it doesn't. I believe
that might have to do with instances of classes defined in the module
still hanging around somewhere, but I'm not sure about that.

I stumbled upon another IDE a few weeks ago. It still has a long
todo-list, buy maybe it can help you out:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/hapdebugger/

-- Henrik


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Nov 12 04:32:35 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:32:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92C45FB7CFEE6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya) wrote in 
news:fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8 at posting.google.com:

> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
> a single line of code.
> 
> perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
> 
> can python do something like this?
> 
Ca you explain please (because I don't really know Perl) what a program 
that prints 1.#INF over and over again has to do with Fibonacci (at least 
thats who who I think you meant)?

Jeff's nice clear Python program prints out a Fibonacci series, but the 
Perl one just seem to print a bit of a Fibonacci series which doesn't 
strike me as terribly useful. Even the numbers it does print are mostly 
approximations.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Nov  6 21:36:45 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:36:45 -0500
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in
 Python 2.4 and up
In-Reply-To: <slrnasja3u.ph0.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEFJCHAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Jon Ribbens]
> Why do you think that will make any difference? I just want to set
> bit 31 of the integer, and I don't care if the integer is 32 bits
> signed, 32 bits unsigned, or >32 bits, I just want to set bit 31,

Python the language doesn't have 32 bit integers, and that's the point.  The
literal 0x80000000 means entirely different things on different Python
platforms today.  In Python 2.4, it will mean the same thing across
platforms.




From pieroul at attglobal.net  Sun Nov 17 15:07:58 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:07:58 -0500
Subject: Redirect question
References: <fa576652.0211170745.2328fe56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DD7F71E.9050807@attglobal.net>


Karsten Weinert wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a question about redirecting. Here is a small program I found
> on the web which I slightly modified; but now it does not run:
> 
> import win32ui, sys
> 
> class Redirect:
>   def __init__(self):
>     self.s=""
>   def write(self, s):
>     self.s+=s
>   def flush(self):
>     win32ui.MessageBox(s)
> 
First, you must use the right variable.  s is nothing.  self.s is the 
right variable.

def flush(self):
    win32ui.MessageBox(self.s)

Then, check if your pop up window is buried under some other windows.
On my system if i execute
	win32ui.MessageBox("some message")
it works fine but the message box does not have the focus, it is not 
listed in the list of processes (i tried it on NT) and the only way
to see the message box is to hide all other windows.

Hint:
	hit <Window-key><M>  to hide all windows.
	hit <Window-key><shift><M> to restore all windows.



-- 
         Pierre



From harsh at computer.org  Sat Nov 23 20:11:29 2002
From: harsh at computer.org (Stacy White)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 01:11:29 GMT
Subject: DCOracle2 performance tuning
References: <%uQD9.122449$1O2.8846@sccrnsc04> <aronuq$i6v$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <5HVD9.93456$%m4.44286@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

I thought that might have been the issue, too, but I get the same
performance with array sizes of 10, 20, 50, 100, and 200.

"Uwe Hoffmann" <qual at epost.de> wrote in message
news:aronuq$i6v$02$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Stacy White wrote:
>
> > I work with a large body of Perl code, and am toying around with the
> > possibility of converting to Python.  One thing standing in my way is my
> > inability to make DCOracle2 perform comparably to Perl's DBD::Oracle.
> >
> > DCOracle2 performance is good relative to DBD::Oracle until it's faced
> > with
> > large result sets.  For instance, time for:
> >
> >   c = db.cursor()
>
> try to set the arraysize of the cursor
> c.arraysize=200
> maybe you see an improvement
>
> greetings
> uwe
>




From capsthorne at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Nov  5 05:44:37 2002
From: capsthorne at yahoo.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:44:37 +0000
Subject: Book recommendation please
References: <1036349092.40578.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net> <B9EC1507.DC85%melbohince@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <1036493038.69241.0@damia.uk.clara.net>

On Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:14:08 +0000, Mel Bohince wrote:

>> I am working through a couple of the helpful tutorials on the web, but
>> I want a book.
> I know that feeling. Take a look at "The Quick Python Book"
> (Harms/McDonald, et al, 2000 2nd Printing) Although it too is a v1.5
> book, it has a very friendly style to it.  Others on Amazon seem to
> share this opinion. It might not be the last book you buy on Python, but
> it certainly is a good starting point.

Thank-you. That is one that I had not heard of and it does indeed have
excellent reviews.  I shall stir myself to go into the city and see if I
can compare it with Lutz/Ascher.

Regards,

Geoff


From walterm at parque.homelinux.net  Fri Nov 22 12:24:42 2002
From: walterm at parque.homelinux.net (Walter Moreira)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:24:42 -0300
Subject: Gnuplot on Windows
In-Reply-To: <F376vlnQvZ1vOFogr8x0000e3c1@hotmail.com>
References: <F376vlnQvZ1vOFogr8x0000e3c1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20021122172442.GA344@casa>

On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 03:11:32PM +0000, Paul Simmonds wrote:
> Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>import Gnuplot
> >>>a=Gnuplot.Gnuplot()
> >>>a.plot('1.dta') # A simple data file

I don't have too much experience with gnuplot, also.  But I think that
you should use the API given by the class Gnuplot, instead of writing
directly to the streams.

For example, 'a.plot' expects a list of coordinates or a 'Data' object.
You have to load your file in a list and then draw the plot from that
list:

   >>> a('set data style lines')
   >>> a.plot([(0,0), (1,1)])

Hope it helps.
Walter



From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 12 10:16:08 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:16:08 GMT
Subject: simple metaclass question
References: <3DD08DC1.A4CFE557@irl.cri.nz>
Message-ID: <7h3ptta255h.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Blair Hall <b.hall at irl.cri.nz> writes:

> Please don't ask me why, but in trying to use metaclasses
> I simplified my code to the following:
> 
> class M(object):
>     def __init__(cls,name, bases,dict):
>         cls.val=0
> 
>     def set(cls,n):
>         cls.val = n

/Usually/ metaclasses want to inherit from type... not sure what
you're trying to achieve here, so I might be wrong.

> class A(object):
>     __metaclass__ = M
>     val = 3
> 
> class B(object) :
>     val = 2
> 
> I was then surprised to see that
> >>> A.val
> 0
> >>> B.val
> 2
> >>>A.set(5)
> >>>A.val
> 5
> 
> Why is the initial A.val not 3?

Because you smashed it in M.__init__?

> How should I change the code so that it
> does work that way?

Check the ns argument for a key 'val'?

> I am trying to eventually create
> classes that hold values and can be manipulated
> by arithmetic operators.
> 
> Any pointers gratefully accepted.

HTH,
M.

-- 
  This is the fixed point problem again; since all some implementors
  do is implement the compiler and libraries for compiler writing, the
  language becomes good at writing compilers and not much else!
                                 -- Brian Rogoff, comp.lang.functional


From tony at tcapp.com  Sat Nov 16 20:49:06 2002
From: tony at tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:49:06 -0800
Subject: My Python Editor "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE"
  does not refesh
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021116174343.0402c048@wheresmymailserver.com>

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:06:41 GMT

 >I am having the trouble of having to exit the editor every time I make
 >some changes to my code in order to execute the code using the
 >"ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE" editor.

I'm having this same problem with PythonWin.  I've even posted a message on 
the PythonWin mailing list, but without any resolve.
http://www.python.org/windows/pythonwin/

I usually have to close down the IDE and re-open it, because PythonWin just 
won't reload the module, even though I've clicked on the reload button.




From stephen at mochamail.com  Sun Nov 10 22:59:32 2002
From: stephen at mochamail.com (Stephen Aichele)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:59:32 -0800
Subject: getting started with cgi on os x
Message-ID: <206740-220021111135932640@mochamail.com>

Hello.

A few years back, I dove into python, and after being away from it
for a year, I'm looking at using it to build a cgi backend to a
website.

I'm new to cgi.  I'm working on a mac running os x.  

Question #1:  I'm assuming that I need to have a web server up and
running on my development machine to get cgi pages to display in a
browser.  Any info on setting up apache or medusa(?) to run python
cgi scripts on os x would be much appreciated.  I feel a bit lost.

Question #2: I'm also assuming that the easiest way to call a python
cgi script from a web page is via a form 'action'.  I'd really like
to use javascript to call python cgi scripts/methods , (rather than
using 'action' from a form ).  My hunch is that this is impossible,
or at least a pain in the rear.  Am I right?

thanks! glad to be rejoining the python world!

- Stephen  




From i.linkweiler at web.de  Sat Nov  9 13:27:51 2002
From: i.linkweiler at web.de (Ingo Linkweiler)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 19:27:51 +0100
Subject: none - output
References: <1036864302.150371@news.liwest.at>
Message-ID: <3DCD53A7.9060002@web.de>

> schuld = 100000.0
> zinsfaktor = 5.0
> tilgung = 20000.0
 > def tilgungsplan(schuld, zinsfaktor, tilgung):
 >   print "Periode Restschuld Zinsen Tilgung"
 >   for i in range(0,5):
 >     zinsen = (schuld*zinsfaktor)/100
 >     echtetilgung=tilgung-zinsen
 >     i = i + 1
 >     schuld = schuld - echtetilgung
 >     print i," "," ", schuld," ", zinsen," ", echtetilgung
 >
 > print tilgungsplan(schuld, zinsfaktor, tilgung)
 > print "Restzahlung: ", schuld

> This produces this output:
> 
> Periode Restschuld Zinsen Tilgung
> > 85000.0 5000.0 15000.0
> 2 69250.0 4250.0 15750.0
> 3 52712.5 3462.5 16537.5
> 4 35348.125 2635.625 17364.375
> 5 17115.53125 1767.40625 18232.59375
> None
> Restzahlung: 100000.0
> 
> My problem is that the "None" (I do not know how to avoid this output!) and
> the value for "Restzahlung" (how much is still left to pay) is not correct!
> > May you help me on this on?

1. bug)
You do:
print tilgungsplan(schuld, zinsfaktor, tilgung)

the function "tilgungsplan" has no return value, so the output is none.
A function can return a value, then you must use a "return variable" 
statement.

2. bug)
all parameters given to a function are LOCAL. This meens, if you change 
the variables given as parameters within a function, the changes are 
lost when the function exits. So you get "Restzahlung: 100000.0"

3. bug)
NEVER change the value of the for-loop! The For-Loop does this for you 
automatically. If you want to count yourself, use a WHILE-loop.


Try this:

def tilgungsplan(schuld, zinsfaktor, tilgung):
   print "Periode Restschuld Zinsen Tilgung"
   for i in range(1,6):
     zinsen = (schuld*zinsfaktor)/100
     echtetilgung=tilgung-zinsen
     schuld = schuld - echtetilgung
     print i," "," ", schuld," ", zinsen," ", echtetilgung
   return schuld

restzahlung = tilgungsplan(schuld, zinsfaktor, tilgung)
print "Restzahlung: ", restzahlung

Viel Erfolg!

Ingo



From ark at research.att.com  Fri Nov 15 08:31:28 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:31:28 GMT
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037329485.24812.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yu99y97vvu1b.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Simon> You might be surprised what you would find in the C++ standard
Simon> library...

Simon> Yeah there's plenty of nice things in the STL, but it's a
Simon> library, not part of the language.

The distinction isn't particularly important.  As with C, every
conforming implementation is required to implement the library, it is
impossible to write a useful, standard-conforming program without
using the library.

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Mon Nov 25 13:01:45 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:01:45 -0500
Subject: Problem with paths on Win 9x
References: <uu4hdcoactl7a@news.supernews.com> <artm3u$18mi$1@serv.vrn.ru>
Message-ID: <uu4pbuofg1dhb8@news.supernews.com>

"Lexy Zhitenev" <zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru> wrote in message
news:artm3u$18mi$1 at serv.vrn.ru...
> > I'm trying to invoke a package, and I'm not getting very far.
> > C:\Python22\MyStuff\AstroPy3>python fit\FileRunner.py
CivilDateAT.htm
> CivATOut.htm
>
> > C:\PYTHON22\PYTHON.EXE: can't open file 'fit\FileRunner.py'
> > ...
> > The path to FileRunner.py is:
> >
> > c:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\fit\fit\FileRunner.py
> >
>
> Probably, you have forgotten one 'fit' dir. Your running path should
look:
>
> C:\Python22\MyStuff\AstroPy3>python fit\fit\FileRunner.py
CivilDateAT.htm
> CivATOut.htm
>
> or
>
> C:\Python22\MyStuff\AstroPy3\fit>python fit\FileRunner.py
CivilDateAT.htm
> CivATOut.htm

As I said, that doesn't work either. I've already tried it before asking
for help. Also without either 'fit'.


> Also, your package should meet certain requirements:
> 1) it must have __init__.py in its dir.
> 2) it must be a subdir of your running script or be present in your
sys.path
>
> ALL subpackages should have a __init__.py file.

It does. It's an external package.

> If you wish to run your script from a package, you have to create a
'run'
> script, something like
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python

Doesn't work on Windows systems.

>
> import fit
>
> fit.fit.FileRunner.main()
>
> or something like that.

Problem occurs earlier.

John Roth
>
> Good Luck!
> Lexy.
>
>




From carel.fellinger at chello.nl  Wed Nov  6 05:46:52 2002
From: carel.fellinger at chello.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:46:52 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20021106104651.GA2860@mail.felnet>

On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 09:07:57AM +0000, Robin Becker wrote:
...
> Isn't it a commonplace that the n x m translation problem is best solved
> by having a common intermediate? This seems more efficient when 

Yep, it is a commonplace, but that doesn't make it true:)

You see, for the common constructs this might be true, but each
language has it weird corners and for those you'll end up with
language pair specific translations inside the intermediate language,
i.e. if there *is* such a translation. There will always be some left
overs that can't be (easily) translated.  e.g. suppose one of the
languages support continuations, but the others don't, bad luck.

Ofcourse for parrot this isn't a show stopper per see, as parrot
doesn't have to translate into each of the supported languages, it
just has to understand them.  But still, parrot will have to support
all the dark corners of all supported languages, quite a mess me thinks.

-- 
groetjes, carel




From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Nov 29 08:41:22 2002
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Louis M. Pecora)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:41:22 -0500
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <698f09f8.0211261046.582254a5@posting.google.com> <3DE40E21.A547F49E@alcyone.com> <698f09f8.0211270143.5a3b9f0f@posting.google.com> <3DE49902.BE880724@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <291120020841221805%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>

In article <3DE49902.BE880724 at alcyone.com>, Erik Max Francis
<max at alcyone.com> wrote:

> Yes, it does, but it also means that everyone who ever wants to
> implement a sequence type needs to define __filter__ and __map__ methods
> (say) or you can't do filtering and mapping with them.  Filter and map
> are general algorithms over sequence types -- all you need to use them
> is iteration, which is what all sequence types have in common.

Python dummy question:  If you want them as methods, can't you just
"overload" them to output the particular sequence.  Otherwise if you
don't want to bother, you still have them as list returns.  Best of
both worlds?

-- 
Lou Pecora
  - My views are my own.


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 20 04:00:23 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:00:23 GMT
Subject: popen / batchfile / environment variables
References: <are0ca$bm$07$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1037734951.19283.python-list@python.org> <r6qera.em3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <HaIC9.42164$Yw.1991903@news2.tin.it>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> Trent Mick fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 19 November 2002
> 11:40 am:
> 
>> 1. run this:
>>     path_to\vcvars32.bat && devenv solution_file.sln /rebuild
>>     "Release"
>>
>         Does that really work in Windows?

I think it depends on the Windows version you're using -- it should
work with the command processor CMD.EXE (/NT, /2000, and I believe
/XP) but not with COMMAND.COM (/95, /98, /ME).  OTOH, I don't think
Microsoft's .NET develoipment environment supports /95, /98 and /ME.


Alex



From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Wed Nov 27 06:59:58 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 11:59:58 GMT
Subject: Get yesterday's date
References: <3de49b30$0$20703$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <slrnau9cns.tk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

Michel COMBE <michel.l.combe at free.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I need to run a SQL query on a MySQL database to get yesterday's records.
> How do I specify "yesterday" ?

It's best to just use SQL. Take a look at
http://www.mysql.com/documentation/mysql/bychapter/manual_Tutorial.html#Date_calculations

> Isn't there some kind of date arithmetic in Python or should I use an
> external library ?
> Which library ?

If you want to do it in Python, mxDateTime from the eGenix mx Extensions. But
I'd really recommend to do tasks like this in SQL.
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sun Nov 10 20:53:51 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:53:51 -0800
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net> <aqilvp$3l1$0@216.39.172.122> <3dcd6aee.7793165@news.earthlink.net> <aqktm8$7ug$0@216.39.172.122> <3dceb920.8008485@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <fj2nqa.7l4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

engsol at teleport.com fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 10 November 
2002 01:59 pm:

> 
> The application provides a console-like user interface, command line
> style. The app has the facility to run 'scripts', loosely based on a
> C-like syntax, which is how we write our test scenarios to automate
> product software testing. The app also has "drivers" to run the cards,
> IO ports, user interface, etc.
>

        Okay, we have a scriptable user interface...
 
> job, we're out of memory (lots of page swapping/overlays), speed is an
> issue (we really need an RTOS....events of interest are
> sub-millisecond now), background sequencers are at their limits
> (threads would be nice), on and on. Plus it locks up a lot these days,
> which is not good when trying to run a two day test suite over the
> weekend.
>
        Need speed, and some access to a posix thread system...
 
> Soooo what is the new tool to look like? Which platform/OS is the
> "right" one? Which script language would provide the testers with what
> they need? Having to compile scripts, if it were C or C++, doesn't
> seem like a good idea, and not very newbie friendly. Perl, while
> powerful,is a bit obtuse. TCL is a bit limited, although named pipes
> are handy. Plus, "bread-boarding" quickie tests from the command line
> would be awkward at best. How
> best to implement a user GUI, and still maintain a command line
> interface?  We're in the exploration mode, as it were, to answer some
> of these questions.
> 
        Need a non-compiled script language...

> 
> Then the thought occurs....will we be forced to write some things in
> C/C++? ISRs? RTOS interface? Driving the custom cards? Timers? I don't
> know, but it's possible there will be some tasks which will benefit
> from extending Python. If so, what's involved? How do you do
> that...exactly? This is why I posted the request for help/info to this
> great newsgroup. I need to figure out the process of extending
> Python...if it's needed.
>

        IMO, I'm going to present some bad news...

        From what you've said, I'd almost think you were coming at it from the 
wrong direction. 

        /I/ think what you'll end up with is a C/C++ application with an 
embedded Python interpreter for your scripting, and maybe for part of 
the graphical part of the user-interface... But the rest of the 
application strongly sounds like it needs to be ported to a different 
OS (drop the MS-DOS mode for Windows or Linux) and cleaned up -- 
remaining in C or rewritten in C++.

        Python threads are switched based upon n-bytecodes of execution (if I 
recall, that is something like every 10 or 20 bytecodes in the 
interpreter). We just had a long discussion a few weeks ago on how 
invoking a "simple" exponential operation using on LONG integers (which 
is performed by a C runtime routine) results in a long lockout in 
Python.

        "Extending" Python is more applicable to things like library 
packages... Say you have a library of statistical functions written in 
C. The library doesn't do anything useful on its own, you need to have 
an application calling the functions in a meaningful order. You would 
like to be able to develop statistical applications in Python, but 
don't want to code all the stat-functions in Python -- so you "extend" 
Python by making wrappers that can call the C library functions.

        "Embedding" lets your application invoke Python to process program 
statements.

        Actually, now that I think about it, you may really be looking at 
having to do both sides... Embed Python for your console/scripting and 
maybe for the GUI, and extend it so the scripts and GUI can directly 
call the processing code you have in C. Either way, you'll have to get 
your code to build under the graphical OS, which ever one you finally 
pick.

        I'll speak blasphemy -- I wonder if it might not be worth recoding 
totally, into something like Ada (GNAT/AdaGIDE on Windows). Since Ada 
was designed for use on embedded systems (even if GNAT doesn't build 
for pure embedded systems) it includes syntax for specifying hardware 
level access (though, again, I have no experience on how difficult it 
is to use that under Windows).
 
> To end my rambling...the answer to the driver question above has
> answered itself, I think. Why would I want to port a 16-bit DOS module
> to NT/2K/Linux, as is? Thanks to the discussion on this helpful
> newsgroup..I don't think I do. But I still need to understand the
> process of adding Python modules, when to use DLLs if it makes sense,
> how to expose them to Python, how to use them, etc. I need the
> "process"...I can figure out the code, I hope...:)
> 
> (Now, if I can just find a good COM book per Alex's suggestions.....)
> 
> Regards,
> Norm

-- 
--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From cappy2112 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 21:42:44 2002
From: cappy2112 at yahoo.com (Tony C)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:42:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Newbie: needs help with ...
Message-ID: <20021108024244.72969.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com>


I'm trying to print the contents of a list.

Python displays "..." until I press enter. Why is it waiting for me to press enter ?

>>> for x in l2[:5] : print x
...

 

thanks

 

tony







---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
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From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sun Nov  3 18:32:58 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 15:32:58 -0800
Subject: Parsing & question about usages off classes!
References: <docx9.172161$Mf5.8344841@Flipper> <iWcx9.81076$TD1.3676165@news2.tin.it> <0efx9.175905$Mf5.8592441@Flipper> <3dc58868@news.sentex.net> <2lgx9.177762$Mf5.8693527@Flipper>
Message-ID: <anb4qa.ht3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Frans fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 03 November 2002 01:14 pm:

> 
> I want to make a program which uses analogs computer output. From the
> output I want to create nice websites with graphics.
> 
> Example lines off analogs computer output:
> 
>                   R       P       ----   DATE ----------------
> D     RP      901     133     2002    09      18
> H     RP      6       6       2002    10      26      00
> W     RP      3347    662     2002    10      06
> 
> 
> D H w being differnt reports. RP meaning Request and Pages. Now I need
> to read all these lines into python and then do stuff to extract the
> data.
>
        Okay, now we are getting something easy...

        Are D, H, W the ONLY categories? If so, you could just hardcode and 
use IF statements.


#initialize lists
daily_list = []
hourly_list = []
weekly_list = []

#read data line

# split/process
tmp = string.split(logline, "\t")
category, RPfield, rfield, pfield, datetime = tmp[0], tmp[1], tmp[2], 
tmp4, string.join(tmp[5:], ":") #all is one line of course

if category == "D":
        daily_list.append([RPfield, rfield, pfield, datetime])
elif category == "H":
        hourly_list.append...
elif category == "W":
        weekly_list.append...
else:
        print "UNKNOWN CATEGORY '%s' SEEN" % category

        -=-=-=-=-=-=-

        Next step up, again assuming you know all the categories:

#initialize
theLists = { 'D':[], 'H':[], 'W':[] }

#read data line

#split/process
tmp = string.split(logline, "\t")
category, RPfield, rfield, pfield, datetime = tmp[0], tmp[1], tmp[2], 
tmp4, string.join(tmp[5:], ":") #all is one line of course

try:
        theLists[category].append([RPfield, rfield, pfield, datetime])
except:
        print "UNKNOWN CATEGORY '%s' SEEN" % category


        -=-=-=-=-=-=-

        Next step up again, if you DON'T know all the categories:

#initialize
theLists = {}

#read data line

#split/process
tmp = string.split(logline, "\t")
category, RPfield, rfield, pfield, datetime = tmp[0], tmp[1], tmp[2], 
tmp4, string.join(tmp[5:], ":") #all is one line of course

if not theLists.has_key(category):
        theLists[category] = []
theLists[category].append([RPfield, rfield, pfield, datetime])


--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 13:56:32 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:56:32 GMT
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com> <slrnau9qqg.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <slrnaua8pf.ld.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <slrnaua5ih.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Wojtek Walczak <gminick at hacker.pl> wrote:
> Dnia Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:53:20 GMT, Robin Munn napisa?(a):
>> You could also do this in one step, like:
>>     gallonsPerTank = int(raw_input("Enter how many gallons..."))
> It of course works, but there's a large amount of situations to think of.
> 
> ---
> import sys
> try:
>    while 1:
>       a = raw_input("Put a digit here: ")
>       if not a.isdigit():
>          a = raw_input("Put a digit here: ")
>       else:
>          a = int(a)
>          break
> except:
>    print sys.exc_info()[1]
>    sys.exit()
> 
> print a
> ---
> 
> Any ideas to make it more reliable ?
> 

You're trying too hard. Let Python do the error-catching for you.

    try:
        a = int(raw_input('Enter your number: '))
    except ValueError:
        print "I asked for a number."

Or, if you want to loop until the user types in valid input:

    while 1:
        try:
            a = int(raw_input('Enter your number: '))
        except ValueError:
            print "That wasn't a number."
        else:
            break

This is almost exactly like the code you posted, except that the
isdigit() test was completely unnecessary. Let int() catch your errors
for you -- that's what exceptions are for.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Fri Nov 22 09:25:07 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:25:07 +0100
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
Message-ID: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>

Hi all,

I quite often find myself doing things like:

xMax = None
for -whatever-:
  -big calculation leading to a value of x-
  if xMax is None:
    xMax = x
  else:
    xMax = max(x, xMax)

or the same kind of stuff with min, of course.

So I told myself: wouldn't it be great if max(None, x) or min(None, x) 
always simply returned x? So I could just write:

xMax = None
for -whatever-:
  -big calculation leading to a value of x-
  xMax = max(x, xMax)

Okay, it only saves 3 lines, but I personally find it quite natural... In 
addition, today, min(None, x) and max(None, x) work, but have strange 
results: as far as I can see, min(None, x) is always None and max(None, x) 
is always x, but this behaviour isn't documented.

Opinions anyone?
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sat Nov  9 20:40:30 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:40:30 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
 <7h31y5uyj81.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Okbz9kKkXsVN092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote previously:
|[1] How many people went "significant indentation! ugh!"?

Oddly many... or at least it seems odd, since I never had that reaction.
But almost no one held on to that "ugh!" feeling after a couple days of
using Python.  My feeling is that the "ugh!" over Lisp's parentheses
just never goes away for most people.

--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------




From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Nov 26 02:06:47 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:06:47 -0800
Subject: some questions....
In-Reply-To: <arumtk$pqa$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <00e101c2951a$62e924d0$21795418@dell1700>

> wow.. i thought python is easy to learn..
> but there are lot's of corks..
> namespace, scoping rule, exec, eval..
> all confuses me..

I'd suggest sticking to the basics and learning more advanced features
as you need them to solve real problems.
 
>             print c ## <--- ok
>             print C ## <--- error

Python is case sensitive (i.e. you must use case consistently).
 
>     exec "C = simple(a)"
>     print C

Why would you write this? You should very very rarely need to use exec
and eval. 

Cheers,
Brian




From stuart at bmsi.com  Sat Nov  2 12:20:21 2002
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 17:20:21 GMT
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <3dc3dc4e$0$12762$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <pPTw9.79586$gA1.2526080@news2.east.cox.net>

On Sat, 02 Nov 2002 09:08:01 -0500, Derek Thomson wrote:

> As for refactoring, Python's advantage here are it's dynamic typing, and
> run-time flexibility. Try altering a Java application on the fly. It
> can't be done. In Python you can, for example, muck about with a GUI as
> it's running, to see what works and what doesn't. This is *great*.

While the "5 x LOC" factor makes it more painful, Java is also dynamically
typed.  However, Java types are immutable - so dynamic type manipulation
uses a functional programming model: you create new types rather than
modifying old type instances.

The new type can have the same name if it is in a new ClassLoader.  IMO,
this is a superior way to handle dynamic types, since your changes can
only disturb code referencing your new ClassLoader.  This is essential
when making dynamic changes to a running production system.

> Then there's the fact that it takes between 5-10 lines of Java to do the
> same thing in Python, depending on what you're doing. Having a very high
> level language, as opposed to a high level one, definitely helps

Amen.  And a big THANKYOU to the Jython team!

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.


From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov 18 05:53:16 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:53:16 +1100
Subject: shutil module
In-Reply-To: <20021118104125.75881.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021118104125.75881.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200211182153.16198.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:41, asdfasd asdfasdf wrote:
<snip>
> shutil.copy (glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events*'), r'c:\temp')
>
> i couldn't seem to copy the file to c:\temp..it says
>
<snip>
> i checked the output of glob and it says
>
> >>> glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events-*')
> ['c:\\winnt\\temp\\events-18-Nov-2002.txt']
I think that shutil.copy() expects a string( from info in 
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-shutil.html), while you are 
passing a one element list.

If you want it to copy all the matching files, you probably need to iterate 
over the list (in unix format):
>>> for file in glob.glob(r'./unpack/*'):
...     shutil.copy(file, '/tmp')

Alternatively, if you know that there will always be only one file, you could 
extract it with a slice operator.

I'm still getting into this - so this might be all wrong. But worth a thought, 
perhaps.

Brad

- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Nov 26 11:10:49 2002
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:10:49 -0500
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <20021126043142.4323.25612.Mailman@mail.python.org>
 <mailman.1038295415.22435.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <J0549ks/KH8X089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.1038295415.22435.python-list at python.org>,
Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote:
> [ ... ]                                           (BTW, I never used
>reduce, never understood what it was good for, and don't immediately
>see how it can be done using list-comps -- would be genuinely interested
>in seeing a couple of example if anyone's willing).

   I don't see `reduce` replacable by list comprehension
because `reduce` doesn't generally return a list.  Reduce is
what you could use to implement (e.g.) product of a list of
items:

        the_product = reduce (lambda x,y: x*y, the_list, 1)

`reduce` is meant to summarize or boil down a list into a
single item.  My using `reduce` here a while ago to get a
list of Fibonacci numbers given a range was an anomaly.

>As for the pain of thinking up a name -- I think it's actually a good
>sign. It shows you care.  Good names are a real benefit to your own
>future self and to anyone else who must read your code.

   But I don't always care.  F'rinstance, defining a
function

        def multiply_two_numbers (x,y): return x * y

would be silly.  'multiply_two_numbers' is longer than
'lambda x,y: x*y' and if you read it in my reduce call
you'd be honour bound to skip out of line and reassure
yourself that the function really did multiply two numbers,
caused no important side effects, etc.  (in the first draft
of this post, I'd typed 'return x * 7', but I fixed it.)

`reduce` and `lambda`:  cryptic, but great for locality of
reference.

        Regards.        Mel.


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Nov 21 14:38:23 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:38:23 +0000
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <arfgtg$fhj$1@Fourier.suse.de>
 <7kf83526.fsf@python.net> <95959723.0211201844.7ce3458@posting.google.com>
 <1037851388.29783@yasure> <7vOf8XARuL39EwBN@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <arj86i$1na0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <PXBSCcAvYT39EwEC@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <arj86i$1na0$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>, Donn Cave
<donn at u.washington.edu> writes
........
>Indeed we might be.  When Thomas Heller, Hans and I say "thread state",
>we're talking about some C data maintained by the Python interpreter -
.......
>be here */
>
>   } PyThreadState;
>
>This is not a thread, and as discussed previously, a thread is not
>constrained to only one of these.  But my point is that a thread
>should not just pick up whatever PyThreadState at random, in the
>C code that implements a callback into the interpreter.  It should
>use only a PyThreadState that belongs to it, even if it has to make
>one.  Either that, or they should all use the same one, and save
>the hassle that we currently are put to (in C callback code.)
>
>       Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
I agree absolutely. I guess that the asynchronous call backs have to
choose some way to break into the python interpreter. If as you
suggested earlier you make the python part of the callback thread
agnostic then it's easy. If the callback needs to rendezvous with a
particular thread then I guess it's harder. I suppose it would need some
kind of special lock that says you can co-opt the thread do the callback
and then release the lock, it would allow exceptions a place to
propagate from. This seems so unwieldy as to be unworkable so perhaps
that's why we get the main/new thread solutions.
-- 
Robin Becker


From davegaramond at icqmail.com  Fri Nov  8 12:06:46 2002
From: davegaramond at icqmail.com (David Garamond)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:06:46 -0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DCBEF26.6030204@icqmail.com>

Oleg wrote:
> I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
> between Python and Common Lisp (
> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?

one sentence: "syntax matters." for people in denial, make it two: "yes 
it really does."

or, rephrased: indentation and "1+1" scare people less than parentheses 
and "(add 1 1)" or something like that.

but perhaps if lisp were invented thousands of years ago before math and 
the plus (+) operator...

-- 
dave




From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Tue Nov 12 00:12:25 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:12:25 +1300
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DD08DB9.1060308@something.invalid>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> if you have to fully parenthesize the above cases,
> you can't really claim with honesty that you have infix-notation (in
> some technical way it might be true, but it's not what the infix
> notation lovers MEAN;-).


Well, APL users seem to be happy with doing everything
right-to-left, come what may...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From usenet at imperialviolet.org  Thu Nov 28 19:30:24 2002
From: usenet at imperialviolet.org (Adam Langley)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:30:24 +0000
Subject: Services in Python
References: <mailman.1038527560.11696.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.29.00.30.23.860208@imperialviolet.org>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:57:29 +0000, Ricardo M. Reyes wrote:

> I'm considering using Python to write a little smtp server, to do some
> automated processing of emails in my office, and I need to know if
> it's possible to make a server in Python that runs permanently under NT
> server, even when there's no user logged in, like if it was a service.
> I don't mind if it's not exactly an NT service, I just need that
> particular characteristic.
> 
> Do you think it's possible? If it is, then I'll get greedy and ask for
> something else: when there IS a user logged in, I'd like the program
> to be invisible, with no icon in the task bar. Again, you think this
> is possible?
> 
> I'm running NT Server 4, and may be able to use a Win2k if it's
> necessary.

There is a whole Service API documented in MSDN if you really want to know
more than you ever really wanted to about them. As with more M$ API's it's
huge, but it does work. I pretty sure the only way to run a process when the
user is logged off is to run as a service.

If memory serves, the NT Resource Kit came with a simple wrapper for 
running any old .exe as a service. It may be worth your while trying 
to dig that up.





From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 21:17:51 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 02:17:51 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> 
>> But what I'd really like before I try Lisp again is a special
>> color-highlighting mode that would distinguish between deeply-nested
>> parentheses, either coloring the parentheses themselves or else all
>> the text between said parentheses. Something like this:
>> 
>> (first
>>     (second
>>         (third
>>             (fourth
>>             )
>>         )
>>     )
>> )
> 
> (Point of information: dangling parentheses are most definitely NOT
> good Lisp code layout style.)
> 
>> where each indentation level would be a different color (foreground?
>> background?).
> 
> ... Just curious ... have you ever felt the need for such an
> indentation-based colour-highlighting feature when programming in
> Python?
> 
> If so, has the lack of it hindered you from programming in Python ?
> 
> If not, what makes you think that it would be useful in Lisp?

What I'm going off of here is my memory of having to count and re-count
parentheses as I was writing to make sure that I was putting in the
right number of closing parens to finish a structure. With
color-highlighting, I could at least be certain *at a glance* of which
paren was lining up with which. Yes, I know I could use % in vi, and
that there is some equivalent function in emacs, but that would be much
slower than just seeing it.

And no, I haven't needed indentation-based highlighting in Python. But
what I'm talking about isn't really indentation-based, it's
nesting-level based. And the reason for it is because I still don't
understand how to indent *properly* in Lisp, and can't find a good
reference on how to indent properly. Color highlighting would at least
give me the visual cues I need until I learn to indent.

Out of time. Must go.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 13 18:07:45 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:07:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <uof8uhyiy.fsf@dfan.org>
Message-ID: <aqum01$qj$3@wheel2.two14.net>

Dan Schmidt <dfan at dfan.org> wrote:
> I've done this too for simple scripts.  If you're writing reusable
> code, one thing you do have to worry about with this approach is
> thread safety.

Excellent point - I hadn't considered that sort of overlapping use.

> Another alternative, which is often possible because this stuff tends
> to happen inside line-processing loops, is:
> 
>  for l in file.readlines():
>    m = re1.match(l)
>    if m:
>      (first, second, ...) = m.groups()
>      process type 1 record ...
>      continue
>    m = re2.match(l)
>    if m:
>      ...
>    ...  

Y'know, I've never been fond of "continue", but I'm beginning to think that
that could be because I've rarely needed it for this sort of thing.  I'm   
afraid it probably doesn't apply directly to the peck of parsers code -    
seems to me there's usually some shared code that follows the alternation. 
But I ought to remember to think of this pattern in the future.



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 12 09:50:53 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 14:50:53 GMT
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <bdb5b58f.0211111438.640885d2@posting.google.com> <aqpc4j$cl5$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <6q7kfjau4f.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <Xns92C47A3ACD484duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <aqqt9t$vu2$0@216.39.172.122> <6qwuniao2t.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <aqr4gd$f5o$0@216.39.172.122>

On 12 Nov 2002 14:56:42 +0100, Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:09:56 +0000 (UTC), Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >  python -c "a=b=1;exec'while+1:print+a;a,b=b,a+b'"
>> >
>> >Who ever said Python programs need whitespace!
>> 
>> I didn't know exec would parse semicolons that way (I hardly ever use
>> it). But is that new with 2.2?
>
>That's been valid Python syntax for ages. The first python version I
>used was 1.3 and I don't think I ever used a Python version that didn't
>support semicolons as optional statement terminators. In fact,
>Misc/HISTORY reveals that this was introduced in 0.9.2.
>
>It's got nothing to do with exec in particular, BTW. It's a standard
>feature of the Python syntax.
>
Well, I knew all that, except I didn't think you could do it in the context
of a complex statement suite (i.e., after a colon). I attributed its working
to exec because I thought it wasn't otherwise allowed after a colon. Bad assumption.

Well, good to get that straight (though maybe not for readability, if I'm tempted
to pack too much on a line ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Nov  4 10:38:48 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 10:38:48 -0500
Subject: What the heck has happened to PythonWin???
In-Reply-To: <lky989xxb5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBJCGAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Mark Hammond]
> As Skip posted, the general project is spambayes.sourceforge.net.
> I've put together a cute outlook addin.  The bayesian filter,

[Michael Hudson]
> Which, of course, isn't Bayesian...

This may be a case where popular practice changes the meaning of what used
to be a perfectly good tech word.  There *is* a Bayesian probability
adjustment in this project, at the level of individual words.  The combining
scheme isn't Bayesian at all, although any spam filter that works by looking
at words seems doomed to be called Bayesian now <wink/sigh>.




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Fri Nov 22 12:11:24 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:11:24 +0100
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211220836150.23526-100000@ns0.tbye.com>; from dave@pythonapocrypha.com on Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 08:41:33AM -0800
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211220836150.23526-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
Message-ID: <20021122181124.K11257@prim.han.de>

Dave Brueck wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Eric Brunel wrote:
> 
> > So I told myself: wouldn't it be great if max(None, x) or min(None, x) 
> > always simply returned x? So I could just write:
> > 
> > xMax = None
> > for -whatever-:
> >   -big calculation leading to a value of x-
> >   xMax = max(x, xMax)
> > 
> > Okay, it only saves 3 lines, but I personally find it quite natural...
> > In addition, today, min(None, x) and max(None, x) work, but have strange 
> > results: as far as I can see, min(None, x) is always None and max(None, x) 
> > is always x, but this behaviour isn't documented.
> > 
> > Opinions anyone?
> 
> Sure! Write two functions, and put them in your sitecustomize.py file. No 
> PEPs to write, no patches to submit, no battles to win, and you get all 
> the functionality you want _today_.

This reasoning is a bit broad and could be applied to many new ideas.
Which doesn't mean it's wrong :-)

Personally, i'd prefer returning the non-None parameter in case one
param is None. But probably it's not worth breaking backward 
compatilibity. 

    holger



From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov  3 14:14:51 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 19:14:51 GMT
Subject: Book recommendation please
References: <1036349092.40578.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <LAex9.66857$aL4.2045429@news1.tin.it>

Geoff wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am starting to learn python. I have been away from programming for a
> long time, but 10 years ago I was ok in pascal and forth.
> 
> I am working through a couple of the helpful tutorials on the web, but I
> want a book.  The classic seems to be Lutz / Asher, but I notice that it
> is getting little old and predates current versions of python.  I have

Yep -- Lutz and Ascher are starting to revise it to cover current
Python, I hear, but that will take a while, of course.

> seen Gupta "Making Use of Python" advertised.  It is recent and looks

Haven't seen that -- but I made the mistake of purchasing "Making Use
of Ruby", from the same series (by Mahadevan, while the Python one is
by Gupta), and it's probably the worst small book I've bought in many
years -- full of technical mistakes, non-idiomatic and sometimes
almost-incomprehensible use of English, and so forth; I was appalled
that John Wiley, once quite a reputable technical publisher, could
have sunk so low.  Quite apart from the author's problem with English
and technical concepts, technical reviewing and copy-editing SHOULD
have caught all of those problems; the fact that the book went out of
the door in that state is, to my way of thinking, sufficient to advise
people against buying ANY other book in that series (one MIGHT happen
to be good, if the author's a demigod needing no technical reviewing
nor copyediting, but the gamble's just too wild, given that there are
so many other good, *well-reviewed, well-edited* books on the market).

> good.  I would be grateful for any views as to which of the two I should
> go for.

If you're in a hurry and can't wait for the Python 2.2 version of
"Learning Python" (sorry, I can't forecast when it might be ready),
I think you would be well advised to look at other books yet.  If
you're interested in other technologies to be used side by side with
Python (such as relational databases, networking, XML, ...), then
Holden's "Web Programming With Python" (New Riders) is very good,
as it gives you just the right amount of grounding in those other
technologies as well as Python.  Another good alternative is Magnus
Lie Hetland's "Practical Python", by Apress -- lots of very substantial,
fully worked-out examples there.

Be warned -- I'm biased, having been a technical reviewer for both
books (only for the first half, i.e., examples excluded, in the
case of "Practical Python"), and being friend with each of the two 
authors (each kindly reciprocated my reviewing, by serving in turn
as technical reviewers for my "Python in a Nutshell").


Alex




From Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com  Fri Nov  8 20:26:20 2002
From: Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 01:26:20 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7b8f89d6.0211081548.f91b468@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasop1s.2d64.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>

Someone called "larry" wrote:

>  Another question that could be asked about Lisp is:
>  Most people it seems have nothing good to say about lisp:"it's hard to
>  read,it's slow, nobody uses it, it's hard to learn etc, etc".
>  Lisp is constantly being bashed
>  and yet Lisp has survived for over 40 years and several companies
>  (Franz, Xanalys, Digitool)
>  seem to make a profit selling lisp compilers. SOMEBODY is using Lisp.
>  If lisp is such a crummy language why has it survived at all for so
>  long?
>  Why do SOME people think Lisp is a fantastic programming langugae?
>  Are we missing something?

I strongly suspect that "larry" knows this already, but:
Yes, Lisp has a lot more going for it than popular rumour
suggests. For instance:

  - it's one of the few dynamically typed languages
    that can provide execution speeds comparable to
    C, Fortran and the like.

  - its syntax, offputting though it is to most newcomers,
    enables an astoundingly powerful macro system in which
    you can do just about anything; in other words, you
    can customize the syntax to suit the domain you're
    working in.

  - its object system is more sophisticated than just about
    any other, including

      - multiple dispatch (i.e., methods specialized on more
        than one parameter's type: say goodbye to the "Visitor
        pattern")

      - a wide range of "method combinations", allowing a
        nice low-effort way to say things like "Make this
        method do X, then call the corresponding method on
        the parent class" or even "call the corresponding
        method on each parent class, and add the results up"

      - a "meta-object protocol" (not part of the ANSI standard,
        but a de facto standard, presentin every major
        implementation) which lets you customize the behaviour
        of the object system

  - its (unusual) approach to exception handling allows you
    to do cool things like continuing execution from the point
    where the exception happened, after fixing whatever the
    problem was.

  - it has decent support for numerical applications: multidimensional
    arrays, a well thought out set of arithmetic and transcendental
    operations, a variety of floating-point formats, unlimited
    precision integers and rationals done right, etc.

Plus a bunch of things that Python does well too, of course.

Lisp has weaknesses. Its standard library, though much better
than (for instance) C++'s in my opinion, is very lacking in
the "real-world" components where Python's shines. No networking,
database connectivity, graphics, web servers, and so on. There
are libraries for all that stuff, but they aren't standardized
and don't come with every implementation. Batteries not included.
The syntax *is* weird. (But one gets to love it, especially for
the convenience it gives to macros.)

-- 
Gareth McCaughan  Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com
.sig under construc


From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov 23 08:27:40 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:27:40 GMT
Subject: Iteration of strings
References: <DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489@news010.worldonline.dk> <faWdnQY6h6rRT0OgXTWcqw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <gnLD9.62135$Yw.2839536@news2.tin.it>

Terry Reedy wrote:
   ...
>> This is unfortunate, because in a sense, a string is also a list of
> strings!
> 
> Not just 'in a sense'.  Substituting 'sequence' for 'list', this is a
> defined feature of the anguage.  If one wants the polymorphism, this
> is fortunate, not unfortunate.  I consider being able to iterate
> through strings a great feature.

Personally, I don't.  On the extremely few occasions in which I HAVE wanted 
to iterate character by character on a string, I would have had no problem 
asking for that explicitly -- be that by passing the string to the list 
constructor, or calling some other hypothetical built-in, string method, or 
whatever.  This specific piece of polymorphism is one of the few that has 
given me only trouble (albeit in modest amounts), since almost always when 
I'm dealing polymorphically with sequences I want strings to be atoms, and 
them I have to take the trouble to single them out.

It's all academic, of course, since compatibility constraints mean this 
isn't going to change, but, were this a "greenfield" language design 
situation, I'd find my sympathies going to the OP's preferences against 
strings being implicitly iterable (as long as we don't lose _slicing_ on 
strings, of course -- now THAT is quite useful a lot of the time!).


Alex



From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov 25 17:53:22 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:53:22 +1100
Subject: setting a socket to multicast [ Solved, Mostly]
In-Reply-To: <200211260816.48053.bhards@bigpond.net.au>
References: <mailman.1038221915.8750.python-list@python.org> <pan.2002.11.25.12.26.38.792181@imperialviolet.org> <200211260816.48053.bhards@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <200211260951.36526.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:16, Brad Hards wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:26, Adam Langley wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > From the ip(7) manpage:
> > 	IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP: Join  a  multicast  group.  Argument  is  a  struct
> >               ip_mreqn structure.
> >
> > I don't think the Python setsockopt function is smart enough to see the
> > IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP option and build the struct. I suggest you look into
> >    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-struct.html
> > and build a struct ip_mreqn
>
> Thanks - makes sense, but I'm not there yet. I think I'm creating the
> structure properly, but still no joy:
I found another example, at http://www.senux.com/linux/network/multicast/

The code seems very roundabout (trying to clean up and simplify now), but it
runs fine, and my toy mDNS server on LInux is getting messages from my iMac
over multicast :)

Brad

- --
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From nas at python.ca  Mon Nov 11 17:12:50 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:12:50 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <tyfvg34zeku.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqjr09$qbg$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <slrnasr9v1.267f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <tyfof8x1rkf.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <aqmqma$nsd$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <tyfvg34zeku.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <20021111221250.GA23023@glacier.arctrix.com>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> I beg to differ.
> 
> You *can* use Lisp as a Python-with-s-expressions. Once you get over
> the parentheses (let's not argue whether one can get over them or
> not), it really is very simple, if you stick to the simple things.

Show me the Lisp code that corresponds to the Python code:

    float(somestring)

'read' does't count since the string could have come from an evil
outside source.  How do I write

    def escape(s):
        s = s.replace("&", "&amp;")
        s = s.replace("<", "&lt;")
        s = s.replace(">", "&gt;")
        s = s.replace('"', "&quot;")
        return s

plainly and efficiently in Lisp?  How about:

    import socket
    s = socket.socket()
    s.connect(("localhost", 13))
    print s.recv(1024)
    s.close()
    
Anything is possible but that doesn't mean it's convenient.

  Neil



From Oschler at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  6 06:04:58 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:04:58 GMT
Subject: Jython - ok to obfuscate code?
Message-ID: <uH6y9.44584$Lg2.12105314@news2.news.adelphia.net>

If I distribute an app that is written Jython stored in a JAR with other
Java code I've written, is it ok to obfuscate all the code in the JAR,
including the Jython classes?

thx





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov  9 17:17:10 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 23:17:10 +0100
Subject: time.sleep on linux
References: <bondpaper-CB136A.15180409112002@nnrp05.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <m3wunm5qxl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Tom <bondpaper at earthlink.net> writes:

> Is there a special time module I need to install for a standard RH Linux 
> 7.3 system? The reason I ask is that my installation (2.2.1) seems to be 
> missing some time-related functions - time.sleep() for example. 

No additional module is required. Your installation has been
misconfigured.

Regards,
Martin



From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov  6 09:53:56 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:53:56 GMT
Subject: Guilty secret: globals baffle me
References: <3U9y9.19300$ko1.2872530@kent.svc.tds.net>
Message-ID: <82ay9.98000$TD1.4405986@news2.tin.it>

Edward K. Ream wrote:
   ...
> 1. How many globals are there?  Is there just one, or does each module
> define its own?

The latter.  Each module has its own globals-dictionary.


> 2. It seems that:
> 
> global foo
> foo = x
> ...
> global
> print foo
> 
> only works if the two parts are within the same module, so I think maybe
> globals() returns module specific stuff, but then why call it globals?

It seems that you haven't noticed the existence of functions (and
their namespaces, particularly their crucial local namespace).

The global statement only makes sense inside a function: it tells the
Python compiler that certain names, that the function binds, rebinds
or unbinds, are NOT (as is the normal case) local to the function, but
rather refer to names in the module's globals-dictionary.

Outside of any function, all names refer to the module's globals-
dictionary, therefore the global statement is redundant -- useless,
although technically innocuous.

Given that names that only exist within a function are commonly
called "local names" or "local variables" of that function, how
else would you call names that AREN'T local, but rather global
to all functions within the module?  Calling them "module names"
would IMHO be far more confusing than calling them "global
names" -- I think of module names as the names of modules; and
the local/global distinction would become quite confused.


Alex



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 18 20:04:19 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:04:19 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <3DD974C6.CD626D0A@alcyone.com> <9MeC9.17362$0U1.1724486@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3DD98E13.247B791E@alcyone.com>

Richard Dillingham wrote:

> As I have asked everyone else that brings up that point, then why does
> the
> following fail (Using Python 2.2.2)?
> 
> if a,b==c,d: print a
>   File "<input>", line 1
>     if a,b==c,d: print a
>         ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Because you need parentheses in that circumstance.  In others, you
don't.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ All the people in his neighborhood turn around and get mad and sing
\__/ Public Enemy
    Erik Max Francis' bookmarks / http://www.alcyone.com/max/links/
 A highly categorized list of Web links.


From kfarmer at thuban.org  Wed Nov 13 01:03:29 2002
From: kfarmer at thuban.org (Keith Farmer)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 22:03:29 -0800
Subject: Exch2k event sink, Python under WSH
Message-ID: <6d668d6.0211122203.41bd3cbd@posting.google.com>

NB:  I cut/paste the lines incorrectly.  They were in fact executed as
/add first, then /setprop

From: kfarmer at thuban.org (Keith Farmer)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,microsoft.public.exchange.admin
Subject: Exch2k event sink, Python under WSH
NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.173.29.194
Message-ID: <6d668d6.0211122200.1fc00430 at posting.google.com>

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator.THUBAN\Desktop>cscript
smtpreg.vbs /setprop 1 onarrival SMTPOnArrival Sink ScriptName
"C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator.THUBAN\Desktop\ex2k_event_sink.wsh"

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator.THUBAN\Desktop>cscript
smtpreg.vbs /add 1 onarrival SMTPOnArrival CDO.SS_SMTPOnArrivalSink
"rcpt to=*"


From donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk  Tue Nov 12 10:30:07 2002
From: donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk (Donal K. Fellows)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:30:07 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DD11E7F.C12E708A@man.ac.uk>

Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> Considering that Jcl and Jython exist, it seems like a reasonable goal

(JCL is something else.  I'd rather not remember it thankyouverymuch.)

> would be to make an interpreter which turns Java's .class files into
> Parrot .pasm files.  Once that tool exists, one could simply translate
> Jcl and Jython into parrot... there would be no need to re-implement
> them.
> 
> And one day, in the distant future, there will be a Perl6 decompiler,
> which will turn Parrot bytecode into Perl6.  Then we'll be able to
> convert the translated Jython and Jcl into Perl6 :)

$10 says that only ever happens with a performance hit.  The problem is that not
all bytecodes are created equal.  (And Jacl is an implementation of Tcl in Java
more in the way that the usual form of Tcl is an implementation of the language
in C.  The fact that Java uses bytecodes is pretty much just a distraction
here.  We also have another way of integrating Tcl with Java that keeps Tcl
implemented in C, but which integrates almost identically with the Java
language.)

> > This sort of thing tends to make me suspicious that this is little
> > more than a pipe-dream, well, at least as far as Tcl's concerned.  (I
> > don't know the other languages nearly well enough to comment in a
> > useful way.)
[...]
> Assuming you thouroughly understand Tcl's bytecodes, why not take a look
> at Parrot, and see whether the set of bytecodes that parrot supports is
> sufficient to do everything that Tcl's bytecodes do?

I know a bit about Tcl bytecodes, and a key factor about them is that they are
very tightly targetted towards implementing Tcl.

Hmm.  A quick scan through the documentation doesn't really raise my hopes.  Or
even leave me with a deep enough understanding of what's going on; is there any
deeper description than http://www.parrotcode.org/docs/parrot_assembly.pod.html
about?  (OK, Tcl's bytecodes need documentation too, but I've already gone to
the effort to understand those as part of my maintenance and development
duties.  I've just not got enough hours in the day.)  Unfortunately, the bits
that I'm most interested in seem to be the bits with least info (isn't that
always the way with complex software systems?)

First impressions: what is meant by "string" anyway?  Character sequence?  Byte
sequence?  UTF-8 sequence?  ISO 8859-1 sequence?  [FX: Reads docs]  Oh, they
carry about what their encoding is with them?  That must make working with them
fun.  How does it handle things like the blecherous monstrosities[*] used for
system encodings in the Far East?  On a quite separate point, is there a
strncmp() equivalent?  That would make implementing Tcl much easier...

More generally, Tcl would need to use PMCs throughout.  The problem is that
Tcl's value semantics (copy-on-write) do not line up well with that which Parrot
seems to use (object-based) and which, IIRC from the discussions at the time
when Parrot was being created, are closely based on those used in Perl even if
not precisely coincident.  Hence we'd be unable to use ground values except as
part of the implementation of higher-level concepts.  That'll impact badly on
performance.

It's at this point that I feel a round of "Stuff it. I'll stick to implementing
in C." coming on.  I've been quietly watching Parrot for a while now, and I
still don't think that implementing Tcl in it is really a winning proposition. 
I'd love someone to prove me wrong, but proof is building a Tcl interpreter in
or on top of Parrot and running the Tcl test suite on it (and getting a decent
proportion of the tests passing.)

BTW, how does Parrot handle calls to foreign code?  The docs I've seen are on
the hazy side, and integration with existing C, C++ and FORTRAN monoliths is
(alas) all too important in particularly commercial development.

Donal.
[* The cluster of things known as "Shift-JIS" justifies this term. IMHO. ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows   http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/   donal.fellows at man.ac.uk
-- The small advantage of not having California being part of my country would
   be overweighed by having California as a heavily-armed rabid weasel on our
   borders.   -- David Parsons <o r c @ p e l l . p o r t l a n d . o r . u s>


From nospam at wanted.com  Wed Nov  6 03:42:25 2002
From: nospam at wanted.com (huber)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:42:25 +0100
Subject: Running PyQt on Win32
References: <ylWx9.38152$gF2.1406335@nlnews00.chello.com>
Message-ID: <61haqa.fvs.ln@news.bap.at>

Joost van Rooij wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to develop gui apps for both win32 als linux. I tried using the
> wxpython framework but I found it rather slow with Python. Therefore I
> looked further and stumbled on PyQt. I would like to develop my apps under
> linux but I would like them to run on Win32 as well.
> 
> Now my question is what software do I need on a win32 workstation to run
> this software (besides Python :)  I don't want to install the qt library on
> my a Windows system just for running my Python apps.
> 
> Joost
> 
> 

 
there seems to be a bug with pyqt and python 2.2 which drives me ( and some
others ) mad ! serach for "+pyqt +weak +reference"  in the group !

udo 


From doug.fort at verizon.net  Sat Nov 16 16:39:09 2002
From: doug.fort at verizon.net (Doug Fort)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:39:09 GMT
Subject: Formatted Output - Floating Point Numbers
References: <d8d62a73.0211161321.12603c31@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.16.21.39.41.512722@verizon.net>

locale is kind of quirky, but it will do what you want. It will also do
thousand separators (commas here in the US).

Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 20 2002, 07:17:53)
[GCC 3.2 20020903 (Red Hat Linux 8.0 3.2-7)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import locale
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "")
>>> n = 57.0 / 7.0
>>> n
8.1428571428571423
>>> locale.format("%.2f", n, 1)
'8.14'
-- 
Doug Fort, Programmer
http://www.dougfort.net



From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Nov  9 12:34:57 2002
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 17:34:57 -0000
Subject: [OT] Cameras (was Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?)
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqgka6$t8j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqh2bo$7ti$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <aqh745$1iv$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqhata$ctr$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <7h3wunmx4j7.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1036863296.401977@yasure>

Quoth Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>:
| Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:
|> If you just want convenience for 4x6 prints from negative, a P&S is
|> fine. But even a basic SLR like a Canon Rebel is about as easy to
|> use as a P&S, while allowing you to 'go manual' when you feel like
|> it.
|
| What strikes me is that with modern, decent print film, going manual
| -- at least wrt. exposure -- makes next to now difference.  I don't
| know enough about the area to say what's going on, but I was
| surprised.

Or not so modern color or BW negative film.  The constraints are
much tighter with transparency emulsions because they're final
generation.  If you look at a negative, it's relatively "flat",
and you can imagine it's easier to manage to get the extreme values
within the range of the emulsion's sensitivity;  from there, the
printer just needs to adjust to the correct baseline.  That's
simplified, the response functions aren't so linear and exposure
can have subtle effects at the extremes.  See Ansel Adams for more
details, and then cube that for color.

Hm, straining for an analogy here ... well, note that the point and
shoot concept is more relevant to today's programming environments
than any differences between programming languages, but maybe one
could observe that there's some class of languages where the programming
environment is less of an issue because of the tolerances.

The "what can you do" issue is more poignant if you go all the way
to the view camera as the hard core alternative, since it lets you
make some fundamental decisions about the way the picture is going
to look - not just focus and exposure but the actual shapes of things.
Definitely not something ``most people want'', but then most people
have no idea what it's about.  That probably has its analogies in the
present context, too.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From georgeyu1981 at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 18 04:55:17 2002
From: georgeyu1981 at hotmail.com (george)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 01:55:17 -0800
Subject: 'for' loop in python,  error: unsubscriptable object
Message-ID: <7913deb3.0211180155.4a243cdf@posting.google.com>

Hello:
   I am new to python.
   I wrote a for loop:
The program like this:
 >  def heat(CLA, RBW, BAG, MRB, NOG):
   
   import string
   name = []
   str1 = " the Clangers"
   str2 = "Rainbow"
   str3 = "Bagpuss"
   str4 = "Mr Benn"
   str5 = "Noggin the Nog"
  

   
   
   for max in range[CLA, RBW, BAG, MRB, NOG]:
     if max == CLA:
       name.append(str1)
     elif max == RBW:
       name.append(str2)
     elif max == BAG:
       name.append(str3)
     elif max == MRB:
       name.append(str4)
     elif max == NOG:
       name.append(str5)
   return name
BUT WHEN I EXECUTE IT ,
THE PROGRAM SAYS "for max in range[CLA, RBW, BAG, MRB, NOG]:
                  type error: unsubcriptable object"

could you help me,please!!!!!


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Tue Nov 26 10:09:34 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:09:34 -0500
Subject: Newbie IDLE - import issues
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302F89D23@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <3DE38EAE.3050009@nyc.rr.com>


sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
>>From: Kenny Tilton [mailto:ktilton at nyc.rr.com]
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 8:34 AM
>>
>>I must misunderstand things badly.
>>
>>Using IDLE: I have import statements where apparently 
>>necessary. I hit Ctrl-F5 and I see print statements at
>>the end of imported modules fire.
>>
>>But I still get errors on imported stuff being undefined.
>>
>>Then I open the imported file and ^f5 it and then I can ^f5 
>>successfully the importing file which before gave me an error.
>>
>>any help with this would be appreciated. As is I end up 
>>having to open ten files and run them manually every morning.
>>
> 
> 
> Without more information ("detailed" information :-)

understood. i'll put together a reproducible if necesaary, but it will 
mean a lot of winnowing. just thought i'd check first if someone would 
say, "oh, right, import doesn't work in IDLE" <g>

> I can only say that this sounds like some module you're
> trying to import isn't in your sys.path.

no, but I supply the path:

   import cells.cell

and cells /is/ in the path. (inside the python directory, in fact.) Like 
I said, I /see/ print statements at the end of each imported module 
firing, so it's not as if Python aint finding the files. (and it gives 
an error anyway if it does not.)

 >  BUT, since
> you load it in IDLE and <F5> it, and *then* load (into
> IDLE I suppose) the "importer" module, and now it runs
> correctly, everything works as it should.

You gave me an idea. Suppose my import statements are messed up somehow, 
so by themselves they pull things into the wrong namespace. But then I 
open the imported file and f5 it. Now it gets pulled into some more 
accessible namespace. When I re-f5 the file with the bad imports, it 
does not matter because the more accessible namespace has the right stuff.

And since I /see/ the necessary imported print statements fire, ie, the 
ones which have the missing declarations, that suggests that my mess-up 
might indeed be which namespace my import statements point to. I mention 
this because I happened to look at some IDLE source and I saw all the 
from/import statements as part of a class definition, and I have been 
putting my import statements (trying both from and import) at the 
toplevel of my source, outside any other definition.

> And, with more information we might help s'more ;-)

understood my OP was deficient, as is this one. i'll cobble together a 
reproducible next if nothing above is a red flag.

thx, kenny





From grante at visi.com  Mon Nov 25 23:27:24 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 04:27:24 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <arsni0$pnk$1@news.netpower.no> <slrnau4sle.9as.grante@localhost.localdomain> <sss5uus0o18jtdi2lcpp3605vfgscmvmum@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnau5u4i.9ei.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <sss5uus0o18jtdi2lcpp3605vfgscmvmum at 4ax.com>, Courageous wrote:

>>>> I never liked filter, map and reduce.
>>
>>So don't use them. ;)
> 
> Lambda is an abortion, imo. It should be deprecated, and eventually
> removed from the language. It doesn't do what it set out to do particularly
> well, and suffers from the double sin of being a construct that is
> inherently anti-pythonic. The subset of list comprehensions that can
> be used to do what map/reduce-lambda do are an example of something
> that does what it was intended, is clear, and pythonic.

I find lambda quite useful for creating simple anonymous functions to pass
to GUIs as button commands and the like.  I suppose the same effect could be
obtained by adding a couple more lines to define a temporarily-named
function, but then I'd have to think up a name.  I've been known to waste
hours trying to come up with names for new computers. I'm not quite so
indecisive about functions, but it does seem to be one of my weak points.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ... or were you
                                  at               driving the PONTIAC that
                               visi.com            HONKED at me in MIAMI last
                                                   Tuesday?


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Nov  7 18:47:30 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:47:30 -0500
Subject: Still Question about print format?
References: <20021107232525.3907.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3DCAFB92.3020606@rogers.com>

  Combine the two pieces of advice.

Your form = """
    blah
    blah
    blah
"""

includes the newline characters between blah and blah :) .  That's one 
of the major purposes of the triple-quoted string form.

form = "%(index)d%(symbol)s%(binding_file)s%(to_file)s"

HTH,
Mike

Mindy wrote:

>>If what you really wanted was to create a classic
>>"report" (static 
>>formatted output for consumption by humans), you
>>shouldn't be using tabs 
>>at all.  Look at using the string methods "center",
>>"ljust" and "rjust", 
>>which will give you your string values with
>>space-padding to be exactly 
>>a given length.
>>    
>>
>
>That's really what I want to do but I didn't explain
>it clearly. Thanks for your clarifying. I tried to use
>ljust as you said and modified my codes as the
>following. But I still couldn't get the aligned
>result. Did I mess up in any place? Thanks so much.
>
>
>        form = """
>	%(index)d
>	%(symbol)s
>	%(binding_file)s
>	%(to_file)s\n
>	"""
>
>  
>
...
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Mon Nov  4 10:52:04 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:52:04 -0000 
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDA9B@intrepid>

> From:	Simon Brunning [SMTP:SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk]
> > >Hmm. Well, Java is my day job, and I've been using Eclipse for a year
> > >or so.  For me, the refactorings work just fine. Now, I've not used
> > >EMACS, so I can't do a comparison, but Eclipse's refactorings are a
> > >*whole* lot better that doing refactoring with a 'dumb' text editor.
> > 
> > Perfect.  So which is easier: Python or Java?
>  
> Python.
> 
> I *like* questions with one word answers.
 
OK, OK, I'll explain a little. Eclipse's refactorings make life easier when
you are doing object and method renames, extracting methods or expressions,
that sort of thing. But these aren't often that much work anyway.

Changing an object's type, ah, now that's a different matter. It's usually
not just the declaration which needs to change, you have arguments to change
all over the place, casts to add, it just seems to go on forever. Eclipse
doesn't help here. (Does EMACS?) With Python, of course, you change your
object instantiation, and re-run your unit tests. If the signatures of the
old and new types match, you are good to go.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Nov 26 13:23:08 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 10:23:08 -0800
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
In-Reply-To: <m2wun12lra.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>
	 <slrnau5ahl.q7v.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
	 <1038264655.1697.137.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
	 <m2wun12lra.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <1038334988.21792.8.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Mon, 2002-11-25 at 16:54, John Hunter wrote:
> >>>>> "Cliff" == Cliff Wells <LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net> writes:
> 
>     Cliff> Perhaps the Ruebot should be considered for honorary
>     Cliff> "Village Idiot" status on c.l.py.  The subject line on all
>     Cliff> of his posts could be prefixed with "[Comedy Relief]" to
>     Cliff> help avoid misunderstandings.
> 
> At least he's in good company.  I only knew of 3:
> 
>   bots = ['effbot', 'martellibot', 'timbot']
>   bots.append('ruebot')
> 
> I hope he feels honored.

Well, to me, "bot" is simply an indication of relentlessness.  The other
known 'bots tend to apply it in a positive manner (except perhaps when
the effbot gets caught in its GIYF loop) while the Ruebot is merely
relentless.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From grante at visi.com  Fri Nov 22 10:41:06 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 15:41:06 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3DDD711D.2000802@skippinet.com.au> <arl9cs$k6b$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3dde5012$0$4491$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <arl9cs$k6b$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:44:54 GMT, Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote:
> 
>>Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>> I've verefied that the above is correct. I wrote a C program that verifies
>>> that the value pointed to by the pointer passed to WaitCommEvent() is
>>> written to later: after the event happens.  
>>
>>:(
>>
>>So what do we do?  We can't break backward compatibility.  I guess we 
>>may need a new function that manages a little 4-byte buffer for this value.
>>
> I don't have win32all, but don't you need to have the OVERLAPPED struct persist
> as well? Isn't the event slot there also used asynchronously?

Yes, the OVERLAPPED struct has to be persistent.  I've thought
about using that as storage for the comm event mask value, but
then we've got to add some sort of accessor function to
retreive it later.  The advantantage of using a 4-byte buffer
is that the semantics stay more similar to both the Win32
usage, and the way that data buffers work for overlapped
read/write operations:


   rc,mask = WaitCommEvent(handle,overlapped)
   rc = WaitForSingleObject(overlapped.hevent)
   whatHappened = int(mask)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  We just joined the
                                  at               civil hair patrol!
                               visi.com            


From pieroul at attglobal.net  Sun Nov 17 14:52:24 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:52:24 -0500
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net> <mailman.1037506706.23922.python-list@python.org> <3DD7B7E8.2020402@attglobal.net> <slrnatftvs.17r.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3DD7F378.7000301@attglobal.net>


Wojtek Walczak wrote:

> print mergelist(a,b,c,d,e)
> ---
> 
> ...and it returns that: 
>       ['a', 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, <function nic at 0x814880c>, 'b']
> 
> HTH in any way... ;>
> 

It works but it flattens the members that are lists or sequence.
In that sense it modifies the members, which i don't want.


-- 
Pierre




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Nov 27 14:43:21 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:43:21 -0500
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038407739.29313.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uua829hl8mh63e@news.supernews.com>

"Dave Brueck" <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1038407739.29313.python-list at python.org...
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 maney at pobox.com wrote:
>
> > Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> > > proof that the language is broken in that area. We don't say, "Is
Tuesday
> > > today?" or "Is 5 your age?", either. :)
> >
> > Is it Tuesday today?
>
> Definitely not equivalent (hint: the 'today' in your version is
optional).
>
> > The other one is not the most common form, but I don't have any
trouble
> > at all imagining using it
>
> Perhaps, but that's not the point - an aspect of a language that the
> programmer has to think twice about, or be especially careful about,
or is
> encouraged to think about in an unnatural way ought to have
significant
> benefit to make it worthwhile. IMO the desire for if-assignment in C
is
> driven in part by a desire to fit more on the screen; Python code is
more
> vertically compact so I don't miss that feature as much.

The occasion for assignment in expressions occurs much more in C because
of the way the standard library is designed: error and exception cases
are
scattered among the valid data related returns from many functions, and
it
is quite common to want to capture the result of a function in case it
is
valid, and test it in case it's an error, in the same function call.

This happens much less in Python. IMNSHO, it shouldn't happen at all
in any well designed language.

John Roth





From gblpjt at safd0832.com  Mon Nov 18 21:25:48 2002
From: gblpjt at safd0832.com (gblpjt at safd0832.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:25:48 GMT
Subject: ATTRACT HOT SEXY WOMEN EASY WITH PHEROMONES (READ MORE)        ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff        7154   [1/2]
Message-ID: <MihC9.119417$LK5.3191035@newsfeed.slurp.net>

ng Inc. . 
Mail to: 
SMG Publishing Inc. 
1340 E. Vine Str #218 
Kissimmee Fl. 34744(USA) 





nwoemmnfwvrzuufobklbjlnhggdtirfszimmfephpgdvrqgxpvcivefsipgquvwjjjylhecmcmirxqykcpydxfgmtcjwmrrsumjvimvcobrhevjgsgmhiolutevgzhockgdlzetldnpkdigsqgcnrhuzmkcnzplukepzxgutyknujbpezfdqqlfhbjnnesgbxuhjvsujhhv



From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Thu Nov 21 15:47:26 2002
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:47:26 +0100
Subject: Teaching numerics with Python
References: <arg9lu$85u$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <arjgta$ii7$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

"Antti Rasila" <arasila at pcu.helsinki.fi.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:arg9lu$85u$1 at oravannahka.helsinki.fi...

> Our experience in this matter is very limited. So, we would like to
> ask, if
>
> 1) ..someone has experience on this kind of usage of Python numerical
> mathematics? We would be happy to hear from your experiences.
>
> 2) ..if some course material and ready program files are available,
> which we could use as building blocks of our course?
>
> 3) ..you have seen a book such as Scientific Computing with Python
>
> Links:
>
> Spring 2002 course homepage:
> http://www.math.helsinki.fi/~arasila/nrc02/
>
>
Kirby Urner is a gold mine of information, see:
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/cp4e.html

another resource found via Google is:
http://www.cse.ucsc.edu/~karplus/abe/math_education.html

regards Gerrit
--
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/







From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Nov 16 02:18:41 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 02:18:41 -0500
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <ar4rgh$nj2$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <aqrig4$d2h$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>
>Here's a toy example. I just want to make a function that efficiently
>uses (here just returns) something from a module. 

Can you explain a bit more clearly what the purpose of this?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?


From john.abel at pa.press.net  Thu Nov  7 05:46:41 2002
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 10:46:41 +0000
Subject: Python In A Nutshell?
Message-ID: <3DCA4491.8000404@pa.press.net>

Hi!

Has anyone any information regarding the availability of this book? 
 According to Amazon UK, it should have been available from 1st 
November, yet I can't find any mention of it on the O'Reilly site.

Thanks

John




From stibbs at nothanks.foo  Thu Nov 28 03:36:06 2002
From: stibbs at nothanks.foo (stibbs)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:36:06 GMT
Subject: variable not being added, help
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.28.08.36.04.997032.60987@nothanks.foo>

i'm 100% sure the mistake is on my part, but i can't seem to figure out
what the problem is, as you can see by my comment in the code i tried 2
different ways. I am trying to add to pw_attempts and have it stick.


#!/usr/local/bin/python

import sys

username = raw_input("username?\n")

def getpass():
	try: 
		pw_attempts
	except NameError:
		pw_attempts = 0

	password1 = raw_input("password?\n")
	password2 = raw_input("re-enter password.\n")
	#pw_attempts = pw_attempts + 1

	if password1 != password2:
		pw_attempts = pw_attempts + 1

		if pw_attempts > 2: 
			sys.exit()
		print pw_attempts
		print "your password does not match! Try again\n"
		getpass()
	else: 
		pass
getpass()
print "Passwords Matched!"


From hansgeunsmeyer at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 23 12:25:46 2002
From: hansgeunsmeyer at earthlink.net (hg)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 09:25:46 -0800
Subject: help interpreting a gdb traceback
References: <dd32f595.0211222139.7581fd7b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <95959723.0211230925.cf9959@posting.google.com>

tracy at reinventnow.com (Tracy Ruggles) wrote in message news:<dd32f595.0211222139.7581fd7b at posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
> 
> Not knowing a whole lot about c code, I'm trying to track down a rare
> bug that's happening.  The code below is the 'bt' command from using
> gdb on the core that's being dumped.
> 
> My current interpretation is that 1) a thread is being started, 2)
> "eval" code is being called somewhere and 3) the system dies during
> garbage collection.
> 
> My hypothesis is that bad things happen when eval is called in a
> thread (at least on my system --> '2.2.1 (#5, Aug 21 2002, 03:45:02)
> \n[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release) [FreeBSD]]')
> 
> So, to test my hypothesis, I'm changing the one or two places in my
> code where eval is being used and sit back and watch what happens.
> 
> In the mean time, does anyone else have any insight on what this
> traceback has hidden in it?
> 
> Thanks
> --Tracy
> 
> 
> ---------- START TRACEBACK ----------
> 
> (gdb) bt
> #0  _PyObject_GC_New (tp=0x80f08e0) at Modules/gcmodule.c:864
> #1  0x80c1cab in PyDict_New () at Objects/dictobject.c:161

What kind of hardware are you using? What error message (if any) did
you get before the core dump?  Is the core dump reproducible?  I'd be
very interested in seeing a Python script that would always dump core
here, because I'm trying to figure out a similar problem in an
extension module (where garbage collecting + multithreading + running
Linux on a 2 GHz dual processor intermittently leads to a fatal Python
error).

Hans


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Thu Nov 28 17:30:40 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:30:40 +1300
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org> <3DE4102D.7D4291F4@alcyone.com> <3DE58723.5040306@something.invalid> <as5k8n$e5o$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3DE69910.7030504@something.invalid>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> BTW, is there anything written on what the BDFL may have in mind for
> ':=' and '?' and '@' etc for?


A while ago there was some talk of adding a new operator
for matrix multiplication, and @ was suggested for that.
I don't know what the BDFL thinks about it, though.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From frans at haarman.com  Sun Nov  3 11:44:57 2002
From: frans at haarman.com (Frans)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 16:44:57 GMT
Subject: Parsing & question about usages off classes!
Message-ID: <docx9.172161$Mf5.8344841@Flipper>

Hi,

I want to put each line off a logfile in a different class. But I cant 
seem to, dynamicly, create new classes. I am having problems using 
variables when creating new classes.

class TEST:
	pass

x=0
while x < 10:
	A + "" + x = TEST()
	x=x+1

Something like that is what I want :)

Having A1 A2 A3 A4 etc. etc. as TEST classes.

Anyway way to do this ?

Thanks,

Frans





From skodela at btopenworld.com  Thu Nov  7 21:07:45 2002
From: skodela at btopenworld.com (Sreekant Kodela)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 02:07:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Any modules to write a wav file
Message-ID: <aqf69g$cjk$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

Hi folks

Does anyone know of a module which I can use basically to create a wav file
or other sound format file, using the various numbers generated by a 
different snippet.

Any soundformat will do. 

Many thanks
sreekant


From walter at livinglogic.de  Sat Nov  2 07:55:46 2002
From: walter at livinglogic.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Walter_D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 13:55:46 +0100
Subject: HTMLgen replacment module
In-Reply-To: <3dc0f443$0$4714@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <3dc0f443$0$4714@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <1036241541.518458@homer.tmt.de>

Nicholas Yue wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>     I am running WindowsXP Pro.
> 
>     I am having difficulty installing the HTMLgen module with ActiveState's
> Python 2.2.
> 
>     The installation in HTMLgen is looking for gmake, I have installed
> cygwin but still no luck.
> 
>     Given that the last update of HTMLgen is 1998, is there any update or a
> replacement package?
> 
>     I am looking for an HTML generation package.

You might want to take a look at XIST
(http://www.livinglogic.de/Python/xist/)

Bye,
    Walter D?rwald



From a at b.c  Sun Nov  3 19:19:29 2002
From: a at b.c (Michael Bakkemo)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 00:19:29 GMT
Subject: tkinter bug? tk bug?
References: <apvaej$9ha$0@216.39.145.102> <18f7875.0211021745.636774fe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aq4eeh$j0e$0@216.39.145.102>

Yes, it still exhibits the error. I am running on win2k pro, so I cannot
follow up on your suggestion...

grrr.

"Drew Perttula" <drewp at bigasterisk.com> wrote in message
news:18f7875.0211021745.636774fe at posting.google.com...
> "Michael Bakkemo" <a at b.c> wrote in message
news:<apvaej$9ha$0 at 216.39.145.102>...
> > I am not sure where things are going wrong, but binding to the "<Key>"
and
> > "<KeyRelease>" TK events seems to work fine except for the right side
> > control and alt keys: the <Key> event hands me the correct values, but
the
> > <KeyRelease> event hands me the left side values. To wit:
>
> # I made the code a lot shorter. I assume this still exhibits the
> error:
>
> import Tkinter
>
> def KeyDown(ke):
>     print "keydown:", ke.keysym_num, ke.keycode, ke.keysym
>
> def KeyUp(ke):
>     print "keyup:", ke.keysym_num, ke.keycode, ke.keysym
>
> root = Tkinter.Tk()
>
> root.bind("<Key>", KeyDown)
> root.bind("<KeyRelease>", KeyUp)
>
> root.mainloop()
>
> > gives me the following when the right side Alt and Control keys are
pressed
> > and released.
> >
> > >>>
> > keydown: 65514 18 Alt_R
> > keyup: 65513 18 Alt_L
> > keydown: 65508 17 Control_R
> > keyup: 65507 17 Control_L
> >
> >
> > My question is, where (what level) are things going wrong? I doubt it is
my
> > code (but hey, what do I know) tkinter? the tk level? my keyboard
driver?
> >
>
> With the code above, I get good behavior on left and right control,
> alt, and shift. Have you tried the 'xev' utility? That would help you
> separate a
> symbol list typo in tk, etc, from a funny keyboard mapping in your
> windowing
> system.
>
> -Drew




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Mon Nov 11 17:22:09 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:22:09 -0500
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com>
Message-ID: <ut0b0oolk66sfb@news.supernews.com>

"Paul Rudin" <Paul_Rudin at scientia.com> wrote in message
news:u7kfktpi5.fsf at scientia.com...
>
> I'm having a little play with python, just to try it out; and one
> thing that I find I miss from other languages is something like lisp's
> if:
>
> (if x y z)
>
> which returns y if x is true and z otherwise.
>
> I realise that I can define a function that does this for me; but is
> there a succinct way of expressing this in the base language?

You can only define a function that does it if you don't need
short circuit evaluation. That is, any simple function you define
will evaluate all three arguements, whether or not it's needed.

The 'and' 'or' hack is the cannonical way of doing this. It short
circuits properly, and it returns the value of the expression that was
evaluated.

You might be able to do a short circuit functional evaluation
if each of the two expressions is placed in a lambda. However,
this complicates the syntax even further.

John Roth
>
> --
> Am I accompanied by a PARENT or GUARDIAN?




From upso_float_ing at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 08:59:56 2002
From: upso_float_ing at yahoo.co.uk (adrian)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 05:59:56 -0800
Subject: secure sockets
Message-ID: <e683c8e1.0211220559.3a51cb8c@posting.google.com>

hi,

i need to use use urllib with an https url i.e. using secure sockets.
I'm on win32 with version 2 python. apparently i need to build python
with the secure socket option turned on but i can't find out how i
turn this option on. also do i have to build the whole of python or
just the socket dll? or is there an easier way to do this using a
third party dll?

any help very much appreciated.

adrian.


From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Nov 15 03:07:45 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:07:45 -0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C5C92001CEEdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat5d1t.17k.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <Xns92C752BDB5426dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote 
>> Martin, your prejudice is showing; very badly :-)
> 
> Martin is one of the project leaders of the PyXML project ;-)

The statements he is making appear very biassed IMO.

> 
> Perhaps you ought to get involved with XML a little more to learn to
> hate it 
><0.4 wink>

I was introduced to it in 97 and have used SGML and XML since.
I host the XSLT faq, the docbook faq and have a book published on
XSL-FO. Not that that makes me an expert, but I have used XML for a 
while.



> But XML says *nothing* about semantics. 

True.


So the *real* problems stay just as hard as they were before.
> 
> Now these hard problems have already been solved for the current
> Python doc system.  And IMO it doesn't matter much what the
> documentation source is written in, be it a subset of LaTex or some
> form of Docbook. 

OK. Thats a view.

Regards DaveP






From BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com  Fri Nov 22 23:09:42 2002
From: BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com (Brett g Porter)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:09:42 -0500
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <mailman.1037907645.16736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_72dnQCkXvAbYkOgXTWcqA@comcast.com>

"David Mertz" <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037907645.16736.python-list at python.org...
> was an s.o.b.  (i.e. before reading my actual posts).  Astute readers of
> c.l.py, however, will notice that most of my posts (to everywhere in the
> world) have used a considerably less high-falutin From:  line.

I can't believe that I've been reading this group for so long and never
caught that. You'd think that I'd have noticed that (like Bruce Wayne and
Batman) you two were never in the room at the same time...

..and what do lotuses taste like, anyways?


--
//  Today's Oblique Strategy (? Brian Eno/Peter Schmidt):
//  Go slowly all the way round the outside
//  Brett g Porter * BgPorter at acm.org






From s at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 26 09:24:50 2002
From: s at hotmail.com (Stephan)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:24:50 +0100
Subject: Website development and python
References: <29e8aa77.0211260432.4743830c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ZrLE9.6$Q4.758927@news.salzburg-online.at>

Hi,

Have a look at http://www.zope.org
It's based on Python and has nice database support integrated so it 
might be worth a look. I found it's easy to start with for somebody with 
not much web-experience.

Stephan

o maj wrote:
> Hello,
> I work with a team who set up networks and databases for small
> companies. We have been repeatedly asked if we could also design their
> websites, but we dont have much knowledge or experience in that.
> 
> I know a bit of python, xml and html(designed my webpage few years ago
> in notepad, but I'm sure theres more to it than that for professional
> dev)
> Sorry i dont know much about programming in the web, the only prog'g i
> do is sql/xml database manipulation, and previously in uni I used C
> and later python for my mechanical engineering programming.
> 
> Without learning new languages like java and php, how do i get
> started?
> Surfing the web, i see all sorts of tools. But i dont know how they
> fit in, or whether i need them.
> 
> Could someone please give me a big picture of the various tools and
> methods i need, and where they fit in the puzzle and also where I can
> find more resources?
> Thanks



From bondpaper at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  7 12:56:44 2002
From: bondpaper at earthlink.net (Tom)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:56:44 GMT
Subject: Install question - resolved
References: <bondpaper-5879FE.02485507112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bondpaper-B3FEBB.11025407112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net>

In article <bondpaper-5879FE.02485507112002 at nnrp02.earthlink.net>,
 Tom <bondpaper at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I've been trying to install a package (Numeric Python), but when I go to 
> build it (on Red Linux 7.3 system), I get an error telling me that it 
> cannot find /usr/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile. My python2 installation 
> was done directly from RPMS available on the python.org site. Can anyone 
> tell me what this config/Makefile stuff is about, and what I can do to 
> fix the problem?
> 
> Thanks a bunch.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Tom

Nevermind. I found that having installed and removed so many variants of 
python in my attempt to get pyGTK to work, I neglected to reinstall the 
python2 development RPM. 

Tom


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 27 16:42:24 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:42:24 -0600
Subject: status of Jython?
In-Reply-To: <4cce07d5.0211271320.18d76ebc@posting.google.com> (animeshk@yahoo.com's
 message of "27 Nov 2002 13:20:26 -0800")
References: <4cce07d5.0211271320.18d76ebc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2adju6667.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "animeshk" == animeshk  <animeshk at yahoo.com> writes:

    animeshk> I noticed on the Jython site that the last version of
    animeshk> Jython is from December 2001.  What version of CPython
    animeshk> is this "equivalent to" (if that makes any sense)?  2.1?
    animeshk> Is there a new version available anywhere?  Thanks!  --
    animeshk> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

rumors of jython's recent death are greatly exaggerated:

  http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=3dc0d213%240%2463815%24e4fe514c%40dreader1.news.xs4all.nl&rnum=43&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Djython%2Bgroup:*python*%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26scoring%3Dd%26start%3D40%26sa%3DN


  http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=3dc0d213%240%2463815%24e4fe514c%40dreader1.news.xs4all.nl&rnum=43&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Djython%2Bgroup:*python*%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26scoring%3Dd%26start%3D40%26sa



John Hunter



From costanza at web.de  Thu Nov 21 08:42:29 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:42:29 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBB8BD.6020806@web.de> <yfszns3u4qt.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DDCE2C5.3010402@web.de>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> writes:
> 
> 


>>Where do you get these numbers from?
> 
> 
> The learning time? From the relevant authorities from comp.lang.lisp, of
> course, in this case Erik Naggum :) 18 months is the time he expects it will
> take people to become CL experts (NB: expert *in* the language *not* expert
> user, which obviously takes longer):

Hmm, I think it depends on your previous knowledge.

> Anyway, the number wasn't meant that seriously by me, the only thing that
> matters is that it is comparatively high. The investment needed to become
> productive in CL and the effect on the likelihood of people evaluating CL at
> all is a more serious issue than lispers generally seem to appreciate. (Note
> that by productive I mean *competitive* to alternatives you already know or
> could learn instead). Clearly people will only be wiling to make such an
> investment when the perceived potential gains match it. The thing is, however,
> that with languages like python, you can get many of the benefits (plus
> additional ones) and few of the uncertainties with much less of an investment
> (read risk).

Probably yes. Part of the investment you have to make in the case of 
Common Lisp is to choosing the right vendor, determing which libraries 
are supported by a particular implementation, and choosing a good 
tutorial (esp. not an old-fashioned one), and so on. This can be 
tedious, especially this requires knowledge about Common Lisp that you 
don't have upfront when you want to learn it. So you have a point there.

>>I have started to take a serious look at Lisp and Scheme in April (i.e., April
>>2002). I have started to implement a Virtual Machine for Java bytecode in
>>Common Lisp in July 2002 (i.e., a just-in-time compiler that translates Java
>>bytecode to Common Lisp code at load time). The core of this Virtual Machine
>>executes the first few test programs since the beginning of this month
>>(November 2002).
[...]

> BTW, doing something along those lines for python would also be quite
> interesting (any chance that this might be your next hobby project :)?  I
> guess such an effort could also be quite useful to the CL community (among
> other things because python has lots of quite usable libraries and because a
> successful project along those lines might attract quite a bit of attention).

Basically I would be interested in something along these lines. But not 
at the moment - first, I'd like to get the JVM to a reasonable state.

BTW, I agree that this would be very worthwhile...


Pascal


-- 
Pascal Costanza               University of Bonn
mailto:costanza at web.de        Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de  R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)



From mwh at python.net  Fri Nov 15 05:05:55 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:05:55 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de> <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <3DD0D765.3030907@web.de> <3DD16CAF.41214BBA@alcyone.com> <m2el9qjd0f.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3DD1DE6A.1BBEFE5A@alcyone.com> <m2adkdk8ig.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3DD2
  <7h3bs4sz9tw.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3DD3F29F.E4882387@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <7h3n0obxiah.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
> 
> > Looks like, no.  Acts like, yes -- dynamic nature, manifest types,
> > everything's an object (in some sense, not the Smalltalk one).
> 
> But surely you're not suggesting that these three features alone make a
> language "Lisp-like," a term I'd use to mean something that looks and
> acts to some degree like Lisp.

As I said before, I think this depends on your view of the universe of
programming languages.  Mine has FORTRAN in it :)

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Haha! You had a *really* weak argument! <wink>
                                      -- Moshe Zadka, comp.lang.python


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sat Nov 23 20:30:44 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:30:44 +1100
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A77C@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Roy Smith [mailto:roy at panix.com]
> 
> "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
> > you can easily embed Python into C/C++ - much more so than most
                                                               ^^^^
> > scripting languages ...
> 
> Why do you say that?  I'm currently working with a system 
> that uses an 
> imbedded TCL interpreter.  It was pretty simple to do, and 
> has proven to 
> be simple to extend when needed.

Note the "most". There are definitely languages that are easier to embed.
Whether you'd want to is another matter entirely ... ;)

Python has always been designed to interact easily with C code, from both
directions (Python embedding C/C++, C/C++ embedding Python). There are
libraries (SWIG, Boost.Python, etc) that make this even easier.

Tim Delaney



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Nov  4 12:46:55 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 18:46:55 +0100
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
References: <mailman.1036428738.6509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4znsp2po0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:

> Of course, that is my fault for not including documentation with the
> patch.

Don't feel too bad. For 2.2, it was just unfortunate timing. For 2.3,
I should have noticed the omission earlier, but it is not too late to
integrate it into 2.3.

Also, while we do need documentation, we don't necessarily need it
from *you*; anybody interested in seeing this patch progress
contribute (hi Robin :-).

Regards,
Martin


From a-steinhoff at web.de  Fri Nov  1 11:17:17 2002
From: a-steinhoff at web.de (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 08:17:17 -0800
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg>
Message-ID: <ddc19db7.0211010817.60b87c53@posting.google.com>

"hope" <hope at netlimit.com> wrote in message news:<aptefo$9qu$1 at nobel2.pacific.net.sg>...
> Hi,
> 
> If i am to develop a full fledge commercial application using Python :
> 
> a. Can i compile my python source into binary ? I have read about py2exe for
> windows. Is there one for Linux ?

Not for Linux.

> 
> b. Can I distribute the bytecode only (.pyo, .pyd) and not the source (.py)
> ? Can the bytecode be 'de-compiled' to source ?

Yes it can be de-compiled ... but you can use Pyrex in order to build
C modules out of your critical code modules.

So it's then a little bit harder to de-compile these modules ....

Cheers

Armin
 

> 
> Please advice.
> 
> Cheers,
> Peter


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov 30 21:13:33 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:13:33 -0800
Subject: Python exceptions: is there a way to find the exception attributes?
References: <3DE8F629.4080108@attglobal.net> <525eaba.0211301730.6c79cba0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DE9704D.5DAA3C61@alcyone.com>

Pat Notz wrote:

> You can also cast the exception into a string which -- if the
> exception class is properly designed -- should give you useful
> information.  For example:
> 
> try:
>     open('/foo.bar')
> except Exception, e:
>     print 'Exception occurred: %s' % str(e)
> 
> That's not exactly what you were asking for but maybe it'll help.

Note that the conversion to string via str ("cast" is a word that might
get Python people up in arms) is implicit with the %s format specifier.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ No one knows what he can do until he tries.
\__/ Publilius Syrus
    Bosskey.net: Counter-Strike / http://www.bosskey.net/cs/
 A personal guide to Counter-Strike.


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 15 07:49:34 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:49:34 GMT
Subject: Reverse dictionnary
References: <nkz4rajw3ln.fsf@pinel.shfj.cea.fr> <ar2p20$r1arl$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
Message-ID: <y36B9.16817$Yw.728406@news2.tin.it>

Uwe Schmitt wrote:
   ...
>     d_reverse=dict(zip(d.values(), d.keys())
> 
> works, but I'm not sure if d.values() and d.keys() are allways
> in right order...

Yes, that's guaranteed by the language reference: methods keys,
values, items, iterkeys, itervalues, and iteritems, called on
the same dict object WITHOUT any intervening change, always
return items (or halves thereof -- key and value being two
halves of each item) in the SAME (arbitrary) order.


Alex



From brian_ at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  5 01:07:38 2002
From: brian_ at yahoo.com (Brian Lenihan)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:07:38 -0800
Subject: [mac] Synopsis on OS X
References: <1fl4r1l.yrjemn6armnyN%news@agapow.net>
Message-ID: <MPG.183100031ca0530d989687@news.nw.centurytel.net>

In article <1fl4r1l.yrjemn6armnyN%news at agapow.net>, news at agapow.net 
says...
> 
> I've just have a few go at installing Synopsis on Mac OS X and neither
> the last release or the CVS version want to install, despite several
> permutations of autoconf, ./configure, make, at one point even
> complaining of the lack of a valid python installation! I've probably
> missed something obvious, but has anyone else had any success? 
> 
> (Relevant details: Python 2.2, MacOS 10.2)

Synopsis knows nothing about Python after 2.1 or OS X.  The only 
supported environments are Linux and Cygwin.


From member at dbforums.com  Wed Nov 20 14:59:54 2002
From: member at dbforums.com (Tetsuo)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:59:54 +0000
Subject: Installation
References: <2066386.1037763461@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <2069353.1037822394@dbforums.com>

"1. your version of python and how you installed it"

2.2.2. I had 2.2.1, but hoped that upgrading would help.

"2. what the "stupid message" is"

I did in my second sentence. Can't look at it now, because I'm at
college. Here, the install says it's doing a non-admin install, because
that's what it should do. But at home, the progress bar gets to 100%,
and then it whines that I'm not an admin.

If all else fails, how do I run a script from the command line? (Far as
I understand, that's pointless for what I'm doing.)

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com


From dnew at san.rr.com  Wed Nov  6 11:31:10 2002
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:31:10 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
	 <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net>
	 <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com>

Robin Becker wrote:
> Funnily enough they kept telling me that as soon as I switched to
> F99/C++ etc etc that everything would be portable.

Your confusion is in thinking that "portable" is a binary value. Fortran
was certainly more portable than assembler, as was C. Tcl is certainly
more portable than Fortran or C. 

The other problem, of course, is that people keep improving their
capabilities, so what was portable is no longer adequate. Fortran is
quite portable, as long as you don't want to do 3D graphics driven by a
data glove.

As long as you don't want to do development in multiple languages or
dynamically load code safely over the net into some other OS process,
Tcl and Python are pretty good choices. Otherwise, you might want to
consider C# or Java. 

See how it works? :-)


From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 13 18:02:29 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 23:02:29 GMT
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <aqt734$r6j$0@216.39.172.122> <3dd27ed6$0$4440$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <149oh3oxnl53k.1tyg3jioqd4rb$.dlg@40tude.net> <3dd2ac2f$0$4474$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3dd2d024$1_5@goliath.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <3dd2da05$0$22173$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3dd2d024$1_5 at goliath.newsgroups.com>, Brad Clements wrote:
> "Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
> news:3dd2ac2f$0$4474$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> 
>> I always really like'd Testle[1]'s method of using "boxes" and
>> "glue".  It was almost identical to the layout scheme Knuth
>> chose for TeX.  I spent years working on and off with Tk's
>> "pack" and never could predict what it was going to do more
>> than half the time.
> 
> Have you seen http://www.xwt.org

No I hadn't.  Pretty cool.

The demo doesn't work (I don't have Java enabled) but it looks
well thought out.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Now KEN is having
                                  at               a MENTAL CRISIS beacuse
                               visi.com            his "R.V." PAYMENTS are
                                                   OVER-DUE!!


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 13 11:06:05 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:06:05 GMT
Subject: Accessor Methods (Was: Re: An evangelist's handbook?)
References: <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list@python.org> <d6dae77c.0211081300.c94f95a@posting.google.com> <owWy9.11842$XO.493367@news2.tin.it> <8ef9bea6.0211130700.7296e54d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <NLuA9.5024$744.159433@news1.tin.it>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
> news:<owWy9.11842$XO.493367 at news2.tin.it>...
>> >    What is the benefit of "public by default"?
>> 
>> Minimizing boilerplate.  90% of exposed properties in languages and
>> object models which don't support that lead to a lot of boilerplate:
   ...
> I agree with accessor methods being boilerplate in Python. But in C++,
> under some circumstances, it's a real necessity.

That's exactly the same thing I'm saying: C++ is an example of
a language that doesn't support 'properties', which is one reason
(out of many) which causes C++ code to need a lot of boilerplate.

Note that the fact that the language makes it necessary doesn't
mean such repetitious, performs-no-real-function code ISN'T
boilerplate; "boilerplate" and "real necessity" aren't antonyms.


> C++ has virtual methods, but no virtual data members.
> 
> And, that to me, is the main reason why C++ needs accessor methods.

It's ONE reason, yes -- subclasses cannot "override data" the way
they can in Python.  However, there are other reasons: in C++, if
you expose an instance attribute X to clients, then client code
written to access blahblah.X needs X to be and remain a data
attribute forevermore -- the fact that X is data has become part
of your class's interface.  Therefore, to keep the flexibility to
change your class in the future, so that X can perhaps be computed
on the fly rather than stored, you DARE NOT expose X as an
attribute on a public interface.

Python's ability to "override data" is amazingly powerful (and
plays incredibly well with the "Template Method" Design Pattern,
too).  But you don't need to go that far to remove the need for
accessors: languages such as Delphi (Object Pascal), Eiffel, and
the C++ dialects/extensions peddled by Borland and Microsoft, all
manage to allow blahblah.X to compile to EITHER a data access OR
a call on some accessor method of blahblah as appropriate.


Alex



From fdsdfs at dasdsa.com  Mon Nov  4 13:09:17 2002
From: fdsdfs at dasdsa.com (ffdsfdsfds)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 19:09:17 +0100
Subject: Modifying name lookup in console
Message-ID: <aq6d8f$2kgk$1@vishnu.jussieu.fr>

Hi, 
I try to get the following behavior in a python toplevel :
It should do
>>> x = 3
>>> print x
3
>>> print y
y
>>> print foo + bar
foobar

I tried the following code (which doesn't work), and I would
like to know if someone has any suggestions, not requiring to
patch python...

from code import *
from types import *

class MyDict(DictType):
    def __getitem__(self,x):
        print "getitem" + str(x)
        try:
            return DictType.__getitem__(self,x)
        except:
            return str(x)
    
    def get(self,x):
        print "get" + str(x)
        try:
            return DictType.__getitem__(self,x)
        except:
            return str(x)
    
    def __contains__(self,x):
        print "contains " + x
        return 1

console = InteractiveConsole(MyDict(locals()))
console.interact()

### In the new console
>>> print locals()['x']
x
>>> print x
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'x' is not defined


                                Sylvain B.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov 12 10:42:49 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:42:49 -0500
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <bdb5b58f.0211111438.640885d2@posting.google.com> <aqpc4j$cl5$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <6q7kfjau4f.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <Xns92C47A3ACD484duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <aqqt9t$vu2$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <YIKcnbil2JlzvUygXTWcpA@comcast.com>

>>  python -c "a=b=1;exec'while+1:print+a;a,b=b,a+b'"

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:aqqt9t$vu2$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> I didn't know exec would parse semicolons that way (I hardly ever
use it). But
> is that new with 2.2? Does that mean it effectively assumes a
semicolon is the
> same as a newline and indent to the same level as the previous
statement, until
> it finds an actual newline?

No, ; binds tighter than :.
The while statement within ' ' is effectively parsed as

while+1: (print+a;a,b=b,a+b) # except that parens here are not legal
syntax
==
while+1:
    print+a;a,b=b,a+b

Terry J. Reedy





From joconnor at cybermesa.com  Fri Nov  8 01:59:36 2002
From: joconnor at cybermesa.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:59:36 +0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <20021108.115059.1034949299.9010@cybermesa.com> <uso37rcegqdpf6@corp.supernews.com> <20021108.121940.201305624.9010@cybermesa.com> <uso6sqgn3fmcb0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20021108.135935.824272813.9010@cybermesa.com>

In article <uso6sqgn3fmcb0 at corp.supernews.com>, "Cameron Laird"
<claird at lairds.com> wrote:

> In article <20021108.121940.201305624.9010 at cybermesa.com>, Jay O'Connor
> <joconnor at cybermesa.com> wrote:
>>In article <uso37rcegqdpf6 at corp.supernews.com>, "Cameron Laird"
>><claird at lairds.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <20021108.115059.1034949299.9010 at cybermesa.com>, Jay
>>> O'Connor <joconnor at cybermesa.com> wrote:
>>> 			.
>>> 			.
>>> 			.
>>>>Yes, I was a Python advocate in a TCL shop for awhile and had a hard
>>>>time convincing
>>>>people that there was a qualitative difference between.
>>>>
>>>>set x [lindex [lindex $var 5] 5]
>>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>x = var[5][5]
>>> 			.
>>> 			.
>>> 			.
>>> Tcl has definite problems that are close to what this example
>>> expresses.
>>>  Somebody's tilting the idiomatic playing field, though; the
>>>  experienced
>>> Tcl-ers I know would write
>>>   set x $var(5,5)
>>> rather than deal with the monstrosity above.
>>
>>Unfortunately the code I was dealing with was using lists of lists of
>>lists nested many, many levels deep with no documentation in the code as
>>to why '5' was a particular field.
>>
>>Try hundreds to thousands of lines of 'the monstrosity above'
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> You have my sympathy.  Are you making a subtle point that Tcl invites
> bad coding?  

No, I'm making the point that TCL is syntactically weaker at expressing
complex structures and this is a qualitative difference between the two
languages

Expanding beyond just getting a single value from a multidimensional list
is what happens when you start throwing in lrange for slicing and other
ways of unwrapping the structure.  TCL's approach of using 'functionName
$var1 var2' leads quite easily and naturally to such 'monstrosities' as a
natural consequence of the stucture of the language.   When you start
throwing in heterogenous structures, especially dealing with nested
arrays (dictionaries) , etc..the syntactical shortcut doesn't scale very
well to dealing with complex data.  (incidentally, your example does not
do the same thing.

set l1 "1 2 3"
set l2 "4 5 6"
set l3 [list $l1 $l2]
set x [lindex [lindex $l3 1] 1]
puts $x

results in '5'

using 'set x(1,1)
results in an error

> What you describe sounds like the moral equivalent of a
> Pythoneer writing
>   i = 0
>   while 1:
>       if i < 73:
> 	  break
>       i = i + 1
>       ...
> rather than
>   for i in range(limit):

If limit is a variable based on conditions within the loop, then your
first example is a valid way of expressing counting until a conditional
is  reached.  Or, under circumstances, the basic approach is valid and
would only be 'wrong' in the situation where the loop end was static.

-- 
Jay O'Connor
joconnor at cybermesa.com
http://www.r4h.org/r4hsoftware


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  1 17:20:40 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 22:20:40 GMT
Subject: Jython Installer?
Message-ID: <Y6Dw9.40519$Lg2.10895463@news2.news.adelphia.net>

Anyone know what the options "no console window" and "use jre" that appear
in the installer's GUI dialog box mean?  I check the Installation HTML doc
and I can't seem to find any mention of them.

thx





From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Fri Nov  1 12:27:16 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:27:16 GMT
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg> <3mrw9.71925$TD1.3188780@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <UPyw9.3708$mN6.1077784@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:3mrw9.71925$TD1.3188780 at news2.tin.it...
> hope wrote:
> > a. Can i compile my python source into binary ?
>
> Yes, you can use McMillan's "installer" for both Windows and Linux
>
> > b. Can I distribute the bytecode
>
> Yes,
> > (.py) ? Can the bytecode be 'de-compiled' to source ?
>
> Of course!

> > Please advice.
>
> It is conceptually impossible to stop a halfway-competent 'cracker'
> from disassembling any compiled form of your program

This discussion seems to go on every few days/weeks and turns on whether
source is safer due to licensing or due to hiding (and the possible failures
of both methods).  While I am not technically competent to do so, I wonder
if the merits of both sides might be boiled down into a point-counterpoint
FAQ that could be posted?  Jus a thought.

-d




From andrew.markebo at telia.com  Mon Nov 18 07:17:46 2002
From: andrew.markebo at telia.com (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:17:46 GMT
Subject: URLLIB2 EXCEPTION
References: <3DD6803C.6090008@libero.it> <m365uwa48j.fsf@flognat.myip.org>
 <3DD7C65A.8080000@libero.it>
Message-ID: <m3vg2v842e.fsf@flognat.myip.org>

/ bart <e_viola at libero.it> wrote:
| Andrew Markebo wrote:
>> / bart <e_viola at libero.it> wrote:
>> | I use function urllopen to connect to http web page. When resource
>> | doesn't present in location, urllopen returns exception. The web
>> | server, in this occasion, generates a page to communicate the error,
>> | but urlopen doesn't return it.
>> | What can I do to receive error page source code by urlopen?
>> Hmm doesn't the exception have this info? I think like member msg of
>> the exception.. Otherwise you have to dig into what urlopen does,
>> and do the calls to
>> functions in urllib2 yourself. Not too hard if you know python a
>> little ;-)
>>        /Andy
>>
| I have check member msg and it return the info error message. Example
| 'not found'.
| Other member I don't think that are useful to resolve my
| problem. Perhaps fp attribute because I don't know it. Do you know its
| uselfulness?

Read some from the fp and see if it is there the page is.. 

Or I think the easiest is to dig into urrlib or urllib2 and fix the
fetching yourself through "URLopener" instead of "FancyURLopener"
(used by urlopen per default), I think you can more easily handle
cases like this there.. Shouldn't be too hard.. if you know a little
python.

Alternative could be to use my homehacked similar lib.. give me a
call.. ehm mail.. ehm article ;-)

      /Andy

-- 
 The eye of the beholder rests on the beauty!



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Nov 27 13:06:09 2002
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 18:06:09 GMT
Subject: floating point division -- question
References: <as2u3l$ncf6d$5@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de> <slrnau9uvh.1k0.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <as31ig$n7lq2$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote:
> William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Some time ago, there was thread discussing adding a floating point division
>> operator, like //.  Doing 'a//b' is certainly easier than doing 'a/float(b)',
>> and it doesn't break any existing codes.  Has there been any interest from
>> the Gods of Python?
> 
> Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> from __future__ import division
>>>> 3 / 5
> 0.59999999999999998
>>>> 3 // 5
> 0
> 
> It's been there since the original Python 2.2 release. See
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/whatsnew/node7.html for details.

Thanks Gerhard.  Although I would've have switched the two operator, so
that existing code doesn't change...

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 


From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Sat Nov 30 07:05:37 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:05:37 +0100
Subject: sharing data between processes
In-Reply-To: <20021130033826.GC1369@matijek.plusseven.com>; from m2@plusseven.com on Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 04:38:26AM +0100
References: <20021130033826.GC1369@matijek.plusseven.com>
Message-ID: <20021130130537.D11257@prim.han.de>

Alex Polite wrote:
> I need to share data between processes running on the same
> machine. One way I can think of is to write a sql backend for my
> objects and then have the processes access the same db, but that seems
> like overkill for this small project. 

indeed. 

> Google tells me that maybe http://pybsddb.sourceforge.net/ could be
> used.  Any other ideas, preferably something that's in the standard
> library? And don't tell me I should use ZODB or you'll come to regret
> it!

maybe you can check out 

    http://snafu.freedom.org/Vmaps/Vmaps.html

it doesn't allow you to share objects (unless you pickle them, i guess)
but provides support for sharing basic types.  haven't used it myself
so far. 

    holger



From robloche at fr.st  Mon Nov  4 16:46:23 2002
From: robloche at fr.st (Rodolphe)
Date: 04 Nov 2002 21:46:23 GMT
Subject: Windows size problem with Tkinter
References: <Xns92BB14C2DBFA1roblochefrst@213.228.0.136>
Message-ID: <Xns92BCE7A8C9C93roblochefrst@213.228.0.4>

> I wrote three progs in Python/Tkinter and they all work very well
> _separatly_. I said separatly because if one of them is running and if
> I try to run another one, its window is reduced to a little square and
> I only can see a little bit of the top left of the GUI. 
> 
> At the beginning of my three progs, I set up the GUI (labels, buttons,
> entries, etc.) and call a function "center_widget()" that fixes the
> size of the window (width_min = width_max = current_width, same for
> the height) and then centers it on the screen. That's the only thing I
> see that can produce that strange behaviour... 
> 
> I'm using Python 2.2 under Linux Mandrake 8.

Hi, it's me again. :o)

I tried again without calling my center_widget() function and I got the 
same problem...
So, the problem is ou there...

--
Rodolphe


From jtk at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  1 08:27:34 2002
From: jtk at yahoo.com (Jeff Kowalczyk)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:27:34 -0500
Subject: Regular exp matching delimited string excepting trailing delimiters?
References: <mailman.1036086000.15801.python-list@python.org> <D_ew9.56722$aL4.1716505@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036094831.4251.python-list@python.org> <apsple$ir9$1@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <aptvgs$46g$1@main.gmane.org>

> You mean just trim the tail of commas? In that case just skip the re and do
>  >>> 'A,,C,123,D,,,,,J,,,,,,,'.rstrip(',')
>  'A,,C,123,D,,,,,J'
> Regards, Bengt Richter

That's really cool and much more appropriate than a RegExp, but it doesn't seem to work in
my Python 2.1.3 or Python 2.2.1, is there any trick to it?

>>> 'yada,,,,'.rstrip(',')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: rstrip() takes no arguments (1 given)

>>> mystring.rstrip(',')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: rstrip() takes no arguments (1 given)








From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Tue Nov 26 09:48:59 2002
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:48:59 +0000
Subject: building database form-applications
In-Reply-To: <TmLE9.5$Jm2.888963@news.salzburg-online.at>
References: <TmLE9.5$Jm2.888963@news.salzburg-online.at>
Message-ID: <200211261448.59491.phil@river-bank.demon.co.uk>

On Tuesday 26 November 2002 2:19 pm, Stephan wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to evaluate tools for building Python-based form-applications for
> database interaction. So far I have looked into Boa Constructor and
> Black Adder which both seem to be promising. But what other tools can be
> recommended? And which is best equipped for rapid GUI development?

If you want develop GUIs with SQL aware widgets then look at the combination 
of PyQt, the eric IDE and Qt Designer.

Although BlackAdder is built on the same technology it does not yet support 
the SQL aware widgets in it's form designer, nor does it include support for 
Qt's SQL classes in its version of PyQt. However, depending on what platform 
you want to support, and whether you wish to sell your applications, 
BlackAdder may be a better bet - and stick with "dumb" forms.

Phil



From grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca  Tue Nov 12 18:32:05 2002
From: grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca (Grzegorz Dostatni)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:32:05 -0700
Subject: __getattr__ and others
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211121621460.30668-100000@gregpc>

Hi.

I want to create an object that (at runtime) is called with an arbitrary
function with arbitrary number of arguments.  Haveing this call it will
forward it through xml-rpc to the server, execute it and return the
results.

I am missing something simple - here is what I have:

    def calling(self, method="", *args, **kwargs):
        print "calling method ", method
        print "With arguments", args, kwargs

    def __getattr__(self, name):
        return lambda s=self, m=name, *args, **kwargs: apply(s.calling,
(m, ) + args, kwargs

This works as expected for (o is the instance of the object)

1. o.hello = OK. Returns the lambda function.
2. o.hello(keyword="Argument") = OK. that works.
3. o.hello(3, keyword="Argument") = This does not work.
4. o.hello(3) = This does not work again.

I have to do something like o.hello(o, "hello", 3) to get what I want.
Does anyone have an idea how to make it more consistent with normal
calling style?

Greg





From rmunn at pobox.com  Sun Nov 10 15:03:26 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:03:26 GMT
Subject: CGI download CSV
References: <ujcssu89sl9gd6chg1n42hm4o7m2819gje@4ax.com> <3DCE4FD6.1050808@gazeta.pl> <0rmssug4b9o9uld7kn9mqg8bule76i2qdv@4ax.com> <3DCE9334.2000308@gazeta.pl>
Message-ID: <slrnastf4u.jr7.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

bromden <bromden at gazeta.pl> wrote:
>> In Mozilla the file open in a browser rather than offering to save to
>> disk
>> In IE the file does nopt open.
> 
> it depends on a browser's settings,
> nothing to do with server side

Only partially correct. It depends on two things: what MIME content-type
is set by the server, and what the browser does with that MIME
content-type. The server configuration files can be set to set certain
content types for certain extensions -- for Apache, the mod_mime module
handles this (see http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_mime.html,
especially the TypesConfig and AddType directives). Then the browser
decides what to do with the file based on its MIME type. [*] A file with
a MIME content-type of text/plain, for example, will almost always be
displayed in the browser. So if you want Mozilla to offer to save the
file, you should change the server settings so that .csv files will be
presented with a content-type of, for example, 'application/x-excel'.

[*] Note that you can't rely on Internet Explorer doing things right;
sometimes it seems to ignore the MIME type. It would seem that
Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, decided to do things their own way
instead of following established standards. See this for more details:

    http://lists.over.net/pipermail/mod_gzip/2001-November/005690.html

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Nov  2 19:36:44 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 19:36:44 -0500
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on OS/390 V2R10
References: <3dc40ef1_1@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <us8rhmg4f2iac1@news.supernews.com>

"pu" <pu at myRealBox.com> wrote in message news:3dc40ef1_1 at news.vo.lu...
> Hi again,
> same question for the mainframe OS.

I'd love to know, but I suspect the answer is no.
Even under Unix System Services, it's an EBCDIC machine,
and that has very serious implications for how strings work,
among many other things.

> If so, I guess it will be USS, therefore a 2nd question: is it
callable from
> JCL? from CICS?

If it runs under USS, then it's callable from JCL. Check your JCL
manual for the method of running Posix programs. I seriously
doubt that it would be accessable from CICS, and I wonder
why anyone would want to?

If someone wants to _hire_ me to do the port I'll send you my
email address privately. The email address in this
post is invalid (not munged, invalid. I haven't been at that ISP
in two years...)

John Roth

> -PU
>
>




From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Nov 15 12:50:39 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:50:39 -0500
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211151030200.643-100000@ns0.tbye.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEJFCLAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Dave Brueck]
> It's funny what people do and don't find readable, huh? I use list
> comps all the time because to me they are almost always more readable
> than the equivalent code and more vertically compact as well. I
> wouldn't mind having a dictionary comp

Do you know that dict() accepts an iterable object producing iterable
objects producing 2 objects each?  It's not exactly transparent when phrased
that way <wink>, but an example should help:

>>> dict([(i, i**2) for i in range(0, 20, 2)])
{0: 0, 16: 256, 2: 4, 4: 16, 6: 36, 8: 64, 10: 100, 12: 144,
 18: 324, 14: 196}
>>>

Or, more strangely,

>>> def square(i):
...     yield i
...     yield i**2
>>> dict([square(i) for i in range(0, 20, 2)])
{0: 0, 16: 256, 2: 4, 4: 16, 6: 36, 8: 64, 10: 100, 12: 144, 18: 324, 14:
196}
>>>

dict(zip(keys, values)) is also a useful thing to understand.

> but don't need it nearly as much, even less so a generator comp.

waiting-for-someone-to-ask-for-class-comprehensions-ly y'rs  - tim




From jason at omeninternet.com.au  Mon Nov 18 23:47:48 2002
From: jason at omeninternet.com.au (Jason Friedland)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:47:48 +1100
Subject: AttributeError with 'time' module
Message-ID: <3dd9c16f$0$16997$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

Hi there

I'm just starting out on Python so forgive me if this is a silly question.

I am attempting to make use of the time module (RH 7.3, Python 2.2.2) 
and keep receiving the following error:

----------------------
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'strftime'
----------------------

Upon running the script below:

----------------------
import time

def writeLogFile(message, file_name):
     file_date = time.strftime('%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S', \
	time.localtime(time.time()))
     file_text = " - " + message

     try:
         file = open(file_name, "a")
     except:
	print "Couldn't append to file!"
         sys.exit()

     file.write(file_date)
     file.write(file_text)
     file.write("\n")
     file.close()
----------------------

I have checked out the time module info at 
http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.2/lib/module-time.html but this appears to 
  be the correct usage.

Is there something I'm missing here?

TIA

Jason Friedland



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Nov 16 11:03:50 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:03:50 -0500
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>
	 <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net>
	 <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
	 <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
	 <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
	 <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
	 <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
	 <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
	 <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
	 <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
	 <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
	 <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <mailman.1037232380.29621.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD66C66.36420BBE@engcorp.com>

"David Mertz, Ph.D." wrote:
> 
> I believe I've read this entire thread.  Maybe it's possible I missed a
> post or two though.

I'm afraid I haven't been able to read the entire thread, so I
definitely might have missed key posts....

> Something I have not seen answered even once is:
> 
>     What BENEFIT would there be to putting the Python documentation
>     in DocBook?

At least one I can think of is that if the source were in XML, 
something I can manipulate with my eyes closed thanks both to
its simplicity and to the herculean efforts of the many people
who have contributed to the many Python XML technologies, I 
would have the opportunity to "play" with it, and quite possibly
would come up with some novel things to do with it that those
who currently have access have not, and perhaps would not, have
thought of.

Put another way, it's a matter of *accessibility*.  To me, XML
is accessible, while LaTeX and similar technologies are not.
(They are, in fact, quite opaque to me, without a CS background.)

> But for the life of me, I cannot figure out what good, however slight,
> would come of such a conversion.

Is my description of a potential good, "however slight" it may
be, sufficient for you to concur there just might be some benefit.
I could come up with stronger arguments, I believe, but that
doesn't seem worthwhile at this point in the discussion.

-Peter


From geoff at gerrietts.net  Mon Nov 25 17:00:36 2002
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:00:36 -0800
Subject: python.vim
Message-ID: <20021125220036.GI25608@isis.gerrietts.net>

If someone out there knows how to get in touch with Mikael Berthe, the
man whose name is on the python.vim script file, could you have him
drop me a line (or a reply, or whatever)?

Both the email addresses I found connected to the python.vim stuff,
bounced.

Thanks,
--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts net>          http://www.gerrietts.net/
     "Now, now my good man, this is no time for making enemies." 
      --Voltaire, on his deathbed, when asked to renounce Satan



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Nov 14 09:58:05 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:58:05 +0000
Subject: windll event loop leaks
References: <wc5tAKABi409EwqD@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <smy4xrpv.fsf@python.net>
 <tti68IAu$509Ewaa@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <heekxoa4.fsf@python.net>
 <bs4sxo4y.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <1fmcwJA9n709Ew6B@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <bs4sxo4y.fsf at python.net>, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net>
writes
>> > I will certainly give this a whirl. It doesn't provide a callback
>> > generatr, but I suppose I can still use Sam's gencb.
>> 
>> Sure does it! It's just not yet documented, although I believe
>> there are examples in the test directory.
>
>Actually I lied! There's an empty 'callbacks' section in the manual,
>but callbacks are later described under 'Functions': you actually
>create a C compatible function, and hand the pointer over to somewhere
>else.
>
>Thomas
Well I built a ctmswgui.py and it seems to use slightly more memory than
Sam's stuff, but on the other hand it doesn't seem to leak so obviously.

Seems real useful. Now I'm in a quandary, which one should I use?
Debugging or working.


As an aside I find the use of byref/_as_parameter_ a bit confusing.
Wouldn't it be better to just have an address attribute.
-- 
Robin Becker


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Tue Nov 12 13:49:33 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:49:33 -0200
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
In-Reply-To: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <20021112164933.A29726@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> This note is mostly for entertainment purposes.
> 
> >>> x = (1, 2, 3)
[...]
> >>> x += (4, 5, 6)

Hey, shouldn't this raise an exception?

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Fri Nov  8 05:56:59 2002
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:56:59 +1000 (est)
Subject: power TypeErrors
In-Reply-To: <7h3ptthzlf0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0211082054370.40456-100000@tenring.andymac.org>

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Michael Hudson wrote:

> For all my mathematical leanings, I still don't really see the point
> of having complex numbers native to a language.  The only other
> language that springs to mind with them is CL, and I don't think
> anyone uses them there, either.  OTOH, I guess it's an "if you need
> it, you need it" thing -- I could probably cope if Python didn't have
> floats :)

Never encountered Fortran? (which had COMPLEX a long time ago...)

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de  Tue Nov 12 03:46:37 2002
From: markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de (Markus von Ehr)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:46:37 +0100
Subject: copy.deepcopy question
Message-ID: <3DD0BFED.B59F49D9@ipm.fhg.de>

Hi,

I have one object called Reference.
Several Spectra objects include their own Reference object.
To assign the Reference I want to pass the Reference object to
several Spectra objects which have to make a copy to a member variable.
Every Spectra need its own copy because different Spectras may have
different References.

Is copy.deepcopy the right way to copy the Reference object to
a Spectras member variable?

Thanks for any comments,

Markus


From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Mon Nov 11 07:48:35 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 12:48:35 GMT
Subject: referencing disjoint array indexes
References: <DnNz9.11696$cP3.22276@news.iol.ie>
Message-ID: <slrnasv9f1.l8.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <DnNz9.11696$cP3.22276 at news.iol.ie>, Padraig Brady wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is there any way you can do something like
> 
> size, mtime = os.stat()[8,6]

If there isn't any better way, you can easily implement a little helper function yourself:

>>> def seqfromidxs(seq, *idxs):
...   lst = []
...   for idx in idxs:
...     lst.append(seq[idx])
...   return lst
...
>>> # now let's try it out:
>>> aseq = "abcdefg"
>>> c1, c2 = seqfromidxs(aseq, 3, 5)
>>> c1, c2
('d', 'f')

-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From ngps at netmemetic.com  Sat Nov  9 12:11:12 2002
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 17:11:12 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <eppstein-DC177C.17122508112002@news.service.uci.edu> <7h3adkiyjjr.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqjfjg$p41$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Michael Hudson  <mwh at python.net>:
>  { Java, Python, ocaml, Common Lisp, C++, perl }

What language is this funny looking list in? ;-)



-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> * http://www.netmemetic.com



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Nov 21 12:48:13 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:48:13 -0600
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
In-Reply-To: <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
        <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org>
        <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
        <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org>
        <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu>
        <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com>
        <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de>
        <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
        <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com>
        <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
        <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
        <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org>
        <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com>
        <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <15837.7261.547013.595099@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Pascal> Could you try to describe what it means to you to think in
    Pascal> Python?  What makes it different from thinking in other
    Pascal> languages?  (This is not a rhetorical question!)

While you will be able to develop the same application in any of a number of
different languages, each language has its own best way(s) of doing things
that depend in large measure on its design.  Once you begin to see problem
solutions in the way the language's design encourages, you can be thought of
as "thinking" in that language.  I think of it sort of like walking
alongside an orchard.  If you aren't lined up with a row, you can't see very
far and the trees in the orchard may seem rather unorganized.  Once you line
up with a row, you can see a long way and the structure of the orchard
becomes immediately evident.

You see evidence of "not thinking" in the language a lot with newcomers to
any language.  The most oft-beaten dead horse (and an extremely shallow
example) in Python is its block structure.  People come from Perl or C or
any other language with explicit block delimiters and look at Python code
while thinking in Perl or C.  They see Python in terms of the other language
and want it to have block delimiters.  Other people come from more FP
languages and wonder why Python doesn't support closures well.  The answer
is generally that the way to do that in Python is to define a class.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From goldbb2 at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  6 02:15:03 2002
From: goldbb2 at earthlink.net (Benjamin Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 02:15:03 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DC8C177.8CC0164E@earthlink.net>

Frodo Morris wrote:
> 
> Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> > Frodo Morris wrote:
> >
> >>Daniel Pfeiffer wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi,
> >>>Apache would essentially have a mod_parrot.  Maybe, if this can be
> >>>tested very hard, we'd even have a Parrot kernel module for all
> >>>Unices supporting that.  Then exec() could perform compiled scripts
> >>>right away, like machine code :-)
> >>
> >>I would have thought that a more platform-independent version of
> >>this would be, say, a parrotd, which sits on top of the kernel,
> >>intercepts calls to exec() bytecode and spawns the relevant
> >>processes.
> >
> >
> > What advantage would this have over putting a #! line in the
> > bytecode?
> >
> Faster, better, cheaper.
> Imagine if parrot could understand all interpreted code.

It can't.  Parrot can only understand parrot bytecode.

> Why not leave it running, so that any Perl/Python/Tcl/Ruby/Java/sh/
> BASIC/whatever code can get to it immediately?

Ignoring the problem of compiling those languages down to parrot
bytecode...

How should the kernel detect that a parrot-bytecode file is, in fact,
parrot bytecode?

For normal exe files, there's the execute bit and some standard headers.
For normal scripts, there's the execute bit and the #! line.

> A parrotd exec would consist of: "Run this." "OK".
> A #! consists of "Does this file exist?"  "Yes."  "Does it
> work?"  "Yes."  "OK, run this."  "OK".
> I contend that a properly set up parrotd *should* be faster than the
> equivalent "each language set up separately" environment.

The speed hit of exec() is *not* the time it takes to check if the file
named on the #! line exists and has the executable bit set.... the speed
it is due to the time it takes to load that program into memory.

With that in mind, if you can special-case the kernel to pass scripts on
to special daemons, rather than loading up an interpreter for each
script, it will almost surely be faster, and not just for perl/parrot.

-- 
my $n = 2; print +(split //, 'e,4c3H r ktulrnsJ2tPaeh'
."\n1oa! er")[map $n = ($n * 24 + 30) % 31, (42) x 26]


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Mon Nov 18 23:17:20 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:17:20 GMT
Subject: yield: implementation details and other technica
Message-ID: <sbejtu49jq3r9csj4d2lip4hpmd7dqq2fr@4ax.com>

I have a technical problem for which grabbing the context of a generator
and *throwing* it up the stack would be preferable to the current implementation.
In the past, I've used a continuation.current() command from stackless python,
however I am possibly looking for an alternative. What I want is a giant coroutine
between a bunch of objects and a master scheduler that I control. It's not
desireable to have our users use *yield*. For one, certain high level methods
are called that imply a yield in a higher context.

Here's what I have:

	scheduler -> user code -> special code -> context yield

What are my choices?

If there aren't any, how hard would it be for me to customize the Python
interpreter to implement my semantics? (The desired semantic is to grab
the continuation of the _calling frame_, not the current frame).

Joe Kraska
San Diego CA
USA



From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Nov 25 19:20:11 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 00:20:11 GMT
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038267336.32150.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aruenr$1iqc$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com>:
| ObRant: What the hell is the difference between an "implementation defined"
| feature, and an "undefined" feature? In both cases, a particular
| implementation is free to do whatever it wants. The only possible difference
| I can think of is that "implementation defined" implies that the
| implementation should at least try to do something useful ... and actually
| document what it does.

I think that in the former case, a particular implementation is only 
free to do what it wants the first time.  The second time, it should
do what it did the first time.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 28 14:05:35 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:05:35 -0800
Subject: what does is ?
References: <3de4a6dd$0$86531$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <slrnau9cep.tk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <3DE4B96D.1060808@Linux.ie> <slrnau9fl9.hk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <3de617bb$0$216$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3DE668FF.8FC422F6@alcyone.com>

Jonas Geiregat wrote:

> why is x is y 0 and a is b 1
> I don't get it it's the same code only different and bigger numbers

Identity is really irrelevant when you're talking about immutable
objects (like numbers and strings), since it really doesn't matter
whether or not two equal, immutable objects are really and truly the
same object (i.e., whether x is y).

For optimization, some immutable objects are "interned" so that you will
get a reference to the same object even though under normal
circumstances -- with a mutable object or without the optimization --
you would not.  When and where this happens is really an implementation
detail and is not something it's really constructive to concern yourself
with, since if you're dealing with immutable objects, the difference
between equality (x == y) and identity (x is y) is academic; equality
will be all that matters.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Some mistakes we must carry with us.
\__/ Speaker-to-Animals
    Blackgirl International / http://www.blackgirl.org/
 The Internet resource for black women.


From arasila at pcu.helsinki.fi.invalid  Fri Nov 22 04:12:32 2002
From: arasila at pcu.helsinki.fi.invalid (Antti Rasila)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 09:12:32 GMT
Subject: Teaching numerics with Python
References: <arg9lu$85u$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <arj5rt$m5u$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <arkse0$jvt$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:
: Antti Rasila wrote:

:> 2) ..if some course material and ready program files are available,
:> which we could use as building blocks of our course?
:> 

: You may want to look at IPython: http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython

: I wrote it specifically to do interactive python work for scientific computing 
: and data analysis. It's a drop-in replacement for the interactive python 
: shell, but adds a bunch of features inspired by Mathematica, IDL and the 
: like.

Hi,

This seems very much the kind of functionality we are looking for.
Thanks for your information/examples.

Antti


From tim_one at email.msn.com  Wed Nov 27 18:17:19 2002
From: tim_one at email.msn.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:17:19 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <20021128000512.T11257@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAENJCPAB.tim_one@email.msn.com>

[holger krekel]
> How does the introduction of 'yield' break old code?

It's a new keyword.  So, e.g., if you have a variable named "yield", you'll
have to rename it, or forget moving to 2.3; that's the only kind of breakage
introduced via yield.  The way people whine about stuff like this, you'd
think it was real work <wink>.




From claird at lairds.com  Sun Nov 24 11:31:55 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:31:55 -0000
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
References: <mailman.1038097412.11387.python-list@python.org> <roy-3B88F0.20145523112002@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <uu1vnrdv55p5d7@corp.supernews.com>

In article <roy-3B88F0.20145523112002 at reader1.panix.com>,
Roy Smith  <roy at panix.com> wrote:
>"Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
>> you can easily embed Python into C/C++ - much more so than most
>> scripting languages ...
>
>Why do you say that?  I'm currently working with a system that uses an 
>imbedded TCL interpreter.  It was pretty simple to do, and has proven to 
>be simple to extend when needed.
>
>I'm not saying that I actually like TCL as a language, but I don't think 
>it's a defensible statement to say that Python is easier to embed.

Python's definitely easier than Perl or even Ruby, say.
There are specialized situations where Tcl is more dif-
ficulat than Python (mostly having to do with event
loop mismatches).
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From k.weinert at gmx.net  Sun Nov 17 10:45:05 2002
From: k.weinert at gmx.net (Karsten Weinert)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 07:45:05 -0800
Subject: Redirect question
Message-ID: <fa576652.0211170745.2328fe56@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I have a question about redirecting. Here is a small program I found
on the web which I slightly modified; but now it does not run:

import win32ui, sys

class Redirect:
  def __init__(self):
    self.s=""
  def write(self, s):
    self.s+=s
  def flush(self):
    win32ui.MessageBox(s)

sys.stdout = sys.stderr = Redirect()

print 'Hidey Ho'
sys.stdout.flush()

I was expecting that when I call .flush() the MessageBox pops up. But
nothing happens (Python 2.2 on Win98, the program passed to python.exe
with a file).

I am looking for such a "delayed" Output because many error messages
are multi-line, so redirecting brings up several messageboxes for each
error. So I would like to do

try:
  assert 1==0
finally:
  sys.stderr.flush()

to get one messagebox only.
Can you advise me how I can fix above program or get the wanted
feature on an other way?

Kind regards,
Karsten.


From xscottgjunk at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  5 15:39:33 2002
From: xscottgjunk at yahoo.com (Scott Gilbert)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 12:39:33 -0800
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <79b2b0bb.0211051239.61329fca@posting.google.com>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:
>
> Suppose I want to parse the following expression:
> 
> >>> exp='(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
> 

I'm not sure if you want to understand why simple regexps can't do
what you want, or if you just want a solution to your problem.  Here
is one path you could try:

>>> from compiler import parse
>>> parse(exp)

Module(None, Stmt([Discard(Add((Add((Mul((Name('a'), Add((Name('b'),
Mul((Name('c'), Sub((Const(2), Name('x'))))))))), Name('d'))),
CallFunc(Name('f'), [Name('s1')], None, None))))]))



Cheers,
    -Scott


From dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de  Thu Nov 21 11:11:03 2002
From: dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de (Joerg Woelke)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:11:03 +0100
Subject: Problem with list assignment
References: <mailman.1037892569.8801.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDD0597.E9637E1@felis.uni-freiburg.de>

Hi!

Jesse Lawrence wrote:

>    i = 0;
>    for r in row:
>       header[i] = r[0]
>       i = i + 1

Try this:

for r in row:
    header.append(r[0])

> Thanks very much,
> Jesse Lawrence

HTH, J"o!

-- 
sigfault


From bharris at students.depaul.edu  Sat Nov  2 23:39:51 2002
From: bharris at students.depaul.edu (Brant Harris)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 04:39:51 GMT
Subject: Python embedded into C#, how?
Message-ID: <rM1x9.3985$mN6.1275455@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

I'm creating a C# application and I thought that it would be quite cool if
it could run py scripts and have an interface to the python interpreter so
that people could run python commands to drive various parts of the program.

I don't really know the best way to do this.  If I could drive python
through C++, then I could throw that into C#.  I have been trying to wrestle
with making a COM object, but it seems like a major headache, and I can't
seem to actually use the COM object once it's used.

Any help would be appreciated, thank you.




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 14 14:05:16 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:05:16 -0700
Subject: PEP #99484663
References: <m2isz6ue4f.fsf@desk.crynwr.com> <418ab5dd.0211141031.48b7f0bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ar0s5d$q8$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

bboman at research.panasonic.com wrote:

> I could go into a long explanation as to why block delimiters are
> useful but I will just say that when you cut and paste a block of code
> from one nested block loop into another block at a different
> indentation level it is much nicer and much less error prone to just
> tell emacs to re-indent the entire function than to manually adjust
> each line.

And it's even nicer (and safer) to highlight the pasted block and put it 
_exactly_ at the indentation level where it should be with C-> and C-<. 
That's why python-mode has those two critical keystrokes, they are vital for 
reorganizing safely the logic of large pieces of code. Far better than 
relying on a keyword-based indentation guess. You do it, and you tell the 
editor exactly where the code should go.

Cheers,

f.


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Nov 11 17:12:49 2002
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:12:49 +0000
Subject: Tkinter listbox selection handling
In-Reply-To: <mcuoqa.6be.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
References: <co6kqa.tqk2.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
 <mailman.1037003594.13731.python-list@python.org>
 <mcuoqa.6be.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <1037052770.19335.5.camel@m-franklin>

On Mon, 2002-11-11 at 19:00, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> Martin Franklin wrote:
> > Try this...
> > 
> > UI.listbox.bind("<ButtonRelease-1>", handlerfunc)
> 
> 
> I had tried this as well - same problem.  The use of listbox.nearest(event.y)
> suggested here seemed to work best.
> 

There must be something else in the code your not showing (the code you
posted did not work out of the bx...)  This works:-

#### start

from Tkinter import *

class myUI:
    def __init__(self, root):
        self.listbox = Listbox(root,
            selectmode=SINGLE,
            exportselection=0)
        self.listbox.pack()
root = Tk()
UI = myUI(root)


def handlerfunc(event):
    print event.widget.get(first=event.widget.curselection()[0])

UI.listbox.insert("end", "1")
UI.listbox.insert("end", "2")
UI.listbox.insert("end", "3")
UI.listbox.insert("end", "4")


UI.listbox.bind('<ButtonRelease-1>', handlerfunc)

root.mainloop()

#### end


Tested just a few seconds ago on a RedHat Linux 8.0 Python 2.2.2
Tk 8.4 and Python 2.2.2 Tk 8.3


Cheers,
Martin.







From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  5 19:06:01 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:06:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What's wrong with my for loop?
In-Reply-To: <007001c28524$db8f1760$ba01010a@local>
Message-ID: <20021106000601.89431.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey, I got such errors in runing my small program. The
attachment is my program named ld.stat.py and the
following is the error:

% ld.stat.py
  File "ld.stat.py", line 23
    for name in names
                    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

So could someone look at my codes and figure out the
bug for me? Thanks! And I still have another basic
questions about Python.
As there are no {} working as the limitators of
functions or blocks(as in C or Perl), what we can
control this is only by indentation, right?



=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
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From Oschler at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  7 13:15:05 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:15:05 GMT
Subject: [Jython] Pass variable or class reference to PythonInterpreter?
References: <udly9.44909$Lg2.12278128@news2.news.adelphia.net> <qVpy9.1040$XO.51258@news2.tin.it> <1Auy9.45044$Lg2.12386430@news2.news.adelphia.net> <rEvy9.2035$Bs5.49469@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <J4yy9.45265$Lg2.12432818@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:rEvy9.2035$Bs5.49469 at news1.tin.it...
> Robert Oschler wrote:

> I consider this a serious design defect of languages such as Java
> and C++.  Python, of course, finesses the issue by eschewing all
> use of such access/visibility restrictions, but I know of no
> general purpose programming language whose access/visibility
> control is really _good_ (e.g., AT LEAST the equal of what you can
> achieve in SQL with views, GRANT, and WITH GRANT OPTION) -- thus,
> inevitably, such control ends up getting in the way.
>

Alex,

Yes, one of my favorite recurring programmer "life-cycles" for new C++
programmers goes like this:

Wow, OO programming!
Great, many access restriction levels (private, protected, public,
vendor-specific)
<Time passes, app goes live, many object hierarchies built with complex
scope modifiers in place, several layers deep>
Deadline is here, panic, break out buzz saw and cut across everything
protection structure built
Programmer grumbles about OOP and scope modifiers

I still really like C++, and I'm learning to like a lot about Java, but I
_love_ Jython.

thx





From admin at e-tones.co.uk  Thu Nov 14 14:13:22 2002
From: admin at e-tones.co.uk (e-tones.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:13:22 -0000
Subject: Variable names on the fly?
Message-ID: <3dd3f5fd$0$28311$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi all, does python allow the creation of variable names on the fly, more
importantly lists.

I have a stock list containing 5 elements, [0,0,0,0,0]

Lets call it: list

Now, via a loop, can I create list1, list2, list3 on the fly by replicting
the original list, eg

i = 1
for i in range(2)
    list+i = list

Whats the proper format to concatenate (sp?) variable names. I used list+i,
obviously this doesnt work, but what does :)

Cheers
Taz







From andreas_springer at gmx.ch  Fri Nov 15 10:13:37 2002
From: andreas_springer at gmx.ch (Andreas)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 07:13:37 -0800
Subject: Python and ZOPE  Developers in Latinamerica wanted
Message-ID: <e70f0c4.0211150713.610acc1e@posting.google.com>

I am looking for Python and Zope developers who live in Latinamerica
for the realisation of an ongoing project for Telecenters in
Latinamerica.

The project BarrioCom is building an establishing a platform for
comerce, employment and information exchange that will be run by
Telecenters. Community telecentres are a powerful tool for supporting
community development through the use of digital technologies and
greater digital inclusion.

The platform will be written on the basis of ZOPE using Python
Classes. If anyone is interested in the project please contact me:
andreas at barriocom.net


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Nov 22 20:08:12 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:08:12 -0500
Subject: Iteration of strings
References: <DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489@news010.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <faWdnQY6h6rRT0OgXTWcqw@comcast.com>

"Bjarke Dahl Ebert" <bebert at tiscali.dk> wrote in message
news:DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489 at news010.worldonline.dk...
>When writing small scripts in Python, I often make the same error:

> Some function expects a list of strings,

Here is the root of your problem.  In a real sense, Python functions
have no expectation as to type.  While you may *intend* for your
function to work with a limited set of types, the interpreter will
pass in anything the caller sends and the function will accept and try
to work with anything it gets.  There is no shield of parameter type
declarations.  There is also no straightjacket of type declarations.

>     for elem in thestringlist: ...
>
> Often, this function is somehow called with a string,
> instead of a list of  strings.

Python's polymorphic genericity is wonderful when it does just what
you want.  It's a slight pain when it doesn't.  Then you have to
explicitly block or modify 'incorrect' inputs or live with the
consequences.  This is a general part of Python programming and not
specific to your particular bugaboo.  Start your function with the
line

  if isinstance(strlist, str): strlist = [strlist]

> This is unfortunate, because in a sense, a string is also a list of
strings!

Not just 'in a sense'.  Substituting 'sequence' for 'list', this is a
defined feature of the anguage.  If one wants the polymorphism, this
is fortunate, not unfortunate.  I consider being able to iterate
through strings a great feature.

Again, the pain/gain of polymorphism is general to Python.  Consider

def multadd(a,b,c): return a*b+c

The fact that seq+seq and int*seq work instead of raising exceptions
is also 'unfortunate' if you consider multadd(3,'a','b') = 'aaab' to
be a bug.  Should we outlaw these operations also?

<...>

> What do you think?

Negative.  Polymorphism is part of the heart of the language.   An
extra line of code here and there to limit it when not wanted is part
of the price of the benefits.  And the trend is to increase it.  For
instance, 'for key in somedict:' just became legal in 2.2.  It
previously would have raised an exception.  So now you can also worry
about what happens if 'somestringlist' is somehow passed in as a dict
;<).

Terry J. Reedy




From mstenner at phy.duke.edu  Sun Nov 17 22:19:10 2002
From: mstenner at phy.duke.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:19:10 -0500
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A74E@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>; from tdelaney@avaya.com on Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 10:37:04AM +1100
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A74E@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <20021117221910.A3360@phy.duke.edu>

On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 10:37:04AM +1100, Delaney, Timothy wrote:
> > I understand that this thread has gone in a couple of different
> > directions.  Just to be clear, I'm talking about python and addressing
> > your assertion that modern compilers/computers obsolete the necessity
> > for programmer-requested inline functions.  I am talking about
> > 'inline'ing code solely for the purpose of speed; avoiding the
> > function call/stack overhead for small operations.
> 
> Yes - but this is a completely separate issue. The question asked was about
> "inline functions". Inlining code is not an *inline function*.

There's a chance I'm misunderstanding something here.  An "inline
function" is a function you've written and asked the compiler to treat
as "inline code", right?  In many ways, it's like a glorified macro.
If I"m wrong please correct me.

> Python has no concept of *inline functions*.

Yes.  I understand that.  That is precisely the fact that I'm discussing.

> > The example I gave was the first one that occured to me, and not at
> > all dissimilar from things I've done in the past.  If the python
> > compiler was supposed to inline that (being a modern compiler and all)
> > then it failed.  I wouldn't mind if I could do "inline def(...):", but
> > I can't.
> 
> The python compiler does absolutely no optimisations unless you use -O, and
> even that is simply removing cruft that is *added* to aid developers. And
> the difference is going away almost completely in 2.3.

And yet when you explained to the OP why 'inline' was unnecessary, the
reason you gave was that modern compilers to a better job at
optimization than humans (usually).

> This boils down to "if you are worried about the performance of your
> program, then Python may not be the right language for you".

That's a fair point.  Serious speed is not python's goal, and that's
fine.

> There are of course *idiomatic* optimisations in Python - and explicitly
> inlining code because you know the performance characteristics of Python
> name lookups and function calls is one. However, it is even more idiomatic
> not to worry about such performance characteristics until they prove to be a
> problem.

Yes, and when they prove to be a problem, you optimize.

> But none of this has anything to do with *inline functions* which is what
> the original poster asked about. A language which (supposedly) gets so close
> to the metal as to expose the implementation details of the code produced
> (such as via an "inline" hint) *should* these days have highly-optimising
> compilers. If your compiler does not have such optimisations, then the
> "inline" hint is probably useless. If it *does* have such optimisations,
> then the "inline" hint is also probably useless.

I feel like we're going around in circles here.  I'm talking about
python.  It looks like 'inline' would produce serious speedups in some
cases.  Therefore, it looks like an inline command would not be
useless.

If you want to argue that the speedups wouldn't be worth other
sacrifices then that's fine, but you don't seem to be making that
argument.

> Humans have been shown time and again to be exceptionally bad guessers as to
> what needs optimising. As such, humans should concentrate on making their
> code as clear and readable as possible, and let the automated systems (such
> as a compiler) work out what is the best optimisation.

But you've already said that the python compiler doesn't do that.

> And yes, I have produced *highly* optimised code in Python (two orders of
> magnitude improvement in performance over the naive implementation). In each
> case, the majority of the performance improvement was by improved algorithms
> (most importantly, only doing things when you absolutely have to). Using
> optimisation "tricks" (inlining code, using default parameters for function
> names to avoid global lookups, etc) have only been used in one particular
> project (a coverage tool) where absolute best possible performance is a
> requirement (and the final result is an overall increase in runtimes when
> run under the coverage tool of around 50%).

So in the case where you inlined the code, the program probably would
have been a lot prettier and easier to maintain if there had been a
clean and simple way to do it.  You can call it a trick if you want
to.  

I'm not convinced that it would be "worth it" to have "inline
functions" or "auto-inlined code" or whatever you want to call it.
That's what I'm trying to discuss.  I'm interested in your (and
others') thoughts on the matter.  So far though, I find your claims
that they would be useless unconvincing.

					-Michael
-- 
  Michael Stenner                       Office Phone: 919-660-2513
  Duke University, Dept. of Physics       mstenner at phy.duke.edu
  Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Mon Nov 11 18:43:39 2002
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 23:43:39 GMT
Subject: Is python a good choice for this task?
References: <pan.2002.11.11.20.29.19.704887.2239@spongebob.corporate.com>
Message-ID: <aqpfbb$c4ca2$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>

In comp.lang.python Ron Lau <ral at spongebob.corporate.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> This IS NOT a request for someone to write a program for me. (But I won't
> turn it down :)  ).  The only programming I ever did was FORTRAN >:P , and short shell
> scripts. I'm just looking for advice.
> 
> 
> I have a CFD program that takes a text file as input (Q1.1). I run it on the
> command line as:
> 
> phoe Q1.1
> 
> which outputs the binary file PH.1
> 
> 
> I also have a program that gives me a number as the last line of its
> output to the terminal with the command
> 
> pointquerey  PH.1 TempK 1 1 1 | tail -1
> 
> 
> What I do now is compare the output of the line above to the value I want
> it to be, then change a parameter in the Q1.1 file, say T1=500.0
> 
> I would like to write something that would Goal Seek this for me.
> (something simple like a newtonian method)
> 
> So I would need a program to..
> --------------------------
> 
> run the command "phoe Q1.1"
> 
> then run the command "pointquery PH.1 TempK 1 1 1 | tail -1"
> 
> read the output of the above and compare to the desired value.
> 
> calculate a better value of T1.
> 
> replace T1=oldvalue in the file Q1.1 with the calculated value from
> above.
> 
> loop back to the beginning...
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> 
> My question is, What language is best suited for this? Perl, Python, or
> shell scripts?
> 
> 
> TIA!
> 
> ral

Well, shell is more natural approach, though you can do it in any scripting
language.  For example,
    while [ $out ... $some_value ]; do
	phoe Q1.1
	out=`pointquery PH.1 TempK 1 1 1 | tail -1`
	if [ ...<terminal_condition>... ]; then 
	    break
	fi
	T1=...
	sed "g/T1=.*/s//T1=$T1/" Q1.1 > new && mv new Q1.1
    done

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
1986 VW Jetta, 350000km :-))


From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Wed Nov 27 14:11:18 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:11:18 GMT
Subject: More pythonic way to change an element of a tuple?
References: <as314e$c4u$2@naig.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <985auu03ug85t81qej5aljd559nspu6fm6@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:58:44 -0800, Richard Muller
<rpm at wag.caltech.edu> wrote:
(edit)
>I frequently have to change a single element of a tuple, and I wind up 
>doing something like this:
>tmp = list(data_in_tuple)
>tmp[item] += 1
>data_in_tuple = tuple(tmp)

maybe keep it always in a list, and just when you need to have a
tuple, use the tuple() function to make a change:

list0 = [1,2,3]
list0[1] += 1
dict0 = {}
dict0[tuple(list0)] = 3
try:
    dict0[list0] = 4
except TypeError:
    print ('whoops, lists are unhashable, ' +
           'cannot be used as dictionary key')
print 'dict0:%r' % (dict0)

Please be careful, everytime you use tuple() a brand new tuple is
created, independent from all other created before!

a = (1,2,3)
b = a
temp = list(a)
temp[1] += 1
a = tuple(temp)
print 'different! a:%r, b:%r' % (a, b)

c = [1,2,3]
d = c
c[1] += 1
print 'same! c:%r, d:%r' % (c, d)

Manuel


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Tue Nov 19 20:25:48 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 12:25:48 +1100
Subject: Sybase module 0.35 released
Message-ID: <m3fztx117n.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

WHAT IS IT:

The Sybase module provides a Python interface to the Sybase relational
database system.  It supports all of the Python Database API, version
2.0 with extensions.

NOTES:

In this release the module uses callback instead of inline error
handling from the Sybase CT library.  This has caused quite extensive
changes to the threading support inside the low level extension
module.

One of the nice side effects of using callback error handling is that
server errors while executing stored procedures will now be reported
correctly.

FreeTDS support is much improved in this version.

You can build for FreeTDS like this:

     python setup.py build_ext -D HAVE_FREETDS -U WANT_BULKCOPY
     python setup.py install

The module is available here:

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/sybase/download/sybase-0.35.tar.gz

The module home page is here:

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/sybase/

CHANGES SINCE 0.35pre3:

No problems were reported with the 0.35pre3 release so the changes are
minimal.

* sybasect extension module now includes a __version__ string.

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Nov 15 06:05:01 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:05:01 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <mailman.1037224700.11546.python-list@python.org> <m3ptt9p0rw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <ar0cso$iua$1@news.hccnet.nl> <m38yzw6o5g.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ar2klb$1nc$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 14 Nov 2002 18:45:31 +0100, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
wrote:

>In addition to Michael's comments (you need to be able to talk to the
>submitter), there is also the issue of copyright. The PSF currently
>discusses requiring formal papers for contributors, which would raise
>the barrier even more. These procedures are needed to legally maintain
>ownership of Python. Otherwise, some contributor (anonymous or not in
>his contribution) could claim that we have stolen his software, and
>that make an end to Python as free software. Or some organization
>could claim that the contributor has stolen their software and
>contributed it to Python.

Of course the PSF has to be careful to not accept potential poisonous
contributions but it is the responsibility of the PSF to thoroughly
check legal problems and the contributor should not be burdened with
these matters. If the contributor contributes code using a BSD license
for the code, the code should be compatible to the Python license or
else the Python license itself would not be compatible to BSD.

>This is, unfortunately, a requirement that springs up when you develop
>valuable free software: there are always people who will take
>advantage of you, unless you are careful.

Yes you should be careful, but be careful by checking the code and
it's license. If you start assuming people to be taking advantage
unless they can proove that they are not you miss a lot of chances. 

This in no way precludes you from deciding to not use the code because
you don't trust it. Its just that you should first accept the code and
then check if its any good instead of checking the author. The author
could be using a pseudonym for example, that's not the PSF's concern. 

The PSF's concern is only to check if the code is valid and not
stolen. If there are concerns about the code being possibly stolen,
the code contribution process could consist of publishing the code in
a newsgroup comp.lang.python.incoming or something like that, and
people could inspect it for possible legal problems. 

I don't think algorithms are copyrightable so the only possible check
would be that the contributions are written in Python and show no
signs of unpythonic coding which could hint at the code being possibly
translated from an other language. Remains the problem of some former
employee of a company releasing the company's *Python* code without
permission from the company, which would make a clean room
implementation of the code necessary if the python had already
swallowed it. I trust the Python community to be cautious enough to
sense these kinds of problems and profit from the added transparency
more than the possible damage would cost. 

This situation is analogous to the "safety and reliability" issue
discussed in another thread, where some people would rather code in
languages having always the same type of object bound to a certain
name once this name is initialized with that type of object. There is
much to say in favor of giving up on direct security by early fixing
of types, and receiving a gain in total security because of the added
transparency.

>So anonymous contributions are clearly out of question.

I hope I gave an example of someone not being able to contribute as
you asked about in a previous post, although it's a situation
occurring only for the very few people that care about these matters
:-)

>I don't quite understand your concern: Is it that you need to identify
>yourself to SourceForge? In that case, there is not much we can do,
>except for sharing our believe that SourceForge will operate sensitive
>with your private data, and not reveal it to anybody.

128 bits of type checking is not pythonic and will severely limit the
set of possible interactions with your clients. I am not discussing
data: I am discussing protocols.

Regards,

Anton.


"Si non e vero e ben trovato" (old Dutch saying)


From bulbul at ucla.edu  Sat Nov 30 23:48:42 2002
From: bulbul at ucla.edu (Leston Buell)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:48:42 -0800
Subject: dbhash/bsddb problem, old bsddb version?
In-Reply-To: <20021130184014.08403.00000238@mb-bh.aol.com>
References: <20021130184014.08403.00000238@mb-bh.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3DE994AA.1020002@ucla.edu>

I solved this problem by running the executable db_upgrade on my 
database file. I then converted the file from bsddb to gdbm.

Leston
bulbul at ucla.edu



From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 10:01:48 2002
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 07:01:48 -0800
Subject: AttributeError: sendall when using ftplib with Python 2.1.3/Zope 2.5.1
References: <mailman.1037596346.7490.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <915a998f.0211180701.5ab2abf2@posting.google.com>

Jeff Kowalczyk wrote:

> The ftplib that came with my Zope 2.5.1 win32 is giving an error on socket's > sendall method. ...
> My _socket.pyd has the following signature:
> Thursday, May 31, 2001, 8:02:06 AM

That looks to be too old to be Python 2.1.3; you probably need to get
a newer one. See the following article for further information on
sendall problems with _socket:

    <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zope/message/102717>


Hamish Lawson


From phil (at) linux2000.com  Tue Nov  5 19:54:25 2002
From: phil (at) linux2000.com (phil (at) linux2000.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 00:54:25 +0000
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> 
> In short, we (the PSF) don't care about other uses of this text,
> beyond it being a license for Python.
> 


I have been wondering for some time how it is possible for anything 
other than Python 2.2.x to be licensed under the PSF terms, but there 
seem to be a substantial number of coders out there doing just that.

So where does this leave software such as PythonCard ? 
(http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net) - this is released "under the Python 
2.2 license".

As a result of writing some software of my own and making it available 
for download from my website, I've actually spent some time this last 
few days looking at the various 'Free software' licenses, and have come 
to the conclusion that by far the majority of them are anything but.

I've been apalled (and my apologies for straying slightly off-topic 
here) by the amount of fragmentation that exists in terms of the 
licenses deemed to be either "Open source compatible" and/or "GPL 
compatible" on the OSF website.

The open source community seems to be shooting itself in the foot on 
this particular issue, as far as I can see.

</rant> :-)



From antonio.p at libero.it  Fri Nov 22 14:20:07 2002
From: antonio.p at libero.it (Antonio.P)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:20:07 GMT
Subject: Python and gd library
Message-ID: <HrvD9.42612$744.1519497@news1.tin.it>

Hi to all
Is there some integration in Python of the GD graphics library?
http://www.boutell.com/gd/

Python instructions produce very poor quality images.. :-(




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Nov 15 06:53:59 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:53:59 +0000
Subject: wrapping all class methods
Message-ID: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In a partially successful attempt at wrapping all methods in a module I used the
appended code. It does add a traceback wrapper to each method,
but the tracebacks don't continue back very far ie I typically see something like

[Application.__getattr__]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 3, in __getattr__
  File "C:\Python\devel\anygui\lib\anygui\Attribs.py", line 67, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: wrapper


ie the traceback seems to get stuck in the wrapper method. What's
the 'proper' pythonic way to do this kind of global wrapping?

##### attempt at wrapping all methods
n = 0
from inspect import isclass, ismethod, getmembers
def makeTBWrap(C,methodname):
        import new
        global n
        oldmethodname = '_%d_tbWrap_%s' % (n,methodname)
        oldmethod = getattr(C,methodname)
        S = []
        s = S.append
        s('def %s(self,*A,**K):' % methodname)
        s('\ttry:')
        s('\t\treturn self.%s(*A,**K)' % oldmethodname)
        s('\texcept:')
        s('\t\timport traceback')
        s('\t\tprint \'[%s.%s]\'' % (C.__name__,methodname))
        s('\t\ttraceback.print_exc()')
        s('\t\traise')
        s('setattr(C,oldmethodname,oldmethod)')
        s('setattr(C,methodname,new.instancemethod(%s,None,C))' % methodname)
        exec '\n'.join(S) + '\n' in locals()
        n += 1

for a in __all__:
        C = globals()[a]
        if isclass(C):
                M = []
                m = M.append
                for methodname,method in getmembers(C):
                        if ismethod(method): m(methodname)
                for methodname in M: makeTBWrap(C,methodname)
-- 
Robin Becker


From cappy2112 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 11 22:13:27 2002
From: cappy2112 at yahoo.com (Tony C)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 19:13:27 -0800
Subject: Help with searching a list
Message-ID: <8d3e714e.0211111913.2e0964c3@posting.google.com>

Python newbie needs help with searching a list of lists.

What is the correct way for search a list of lists ?


import os
os.system('cls')

l3 = [ ['hello',5], ['bye',2] ]
print l3
print 2 in l3

if 'bye' in l3: 
	print 'yes'
else:
	print 'no'

if 44 in l3: 
	print 'yes'
else:
	print 'no'

This is what is printed

[ ['hello',5], ['bye',2] ]
0
no
no


thanks


From Norbert.Klamann at klamann-software.de  Wed Nov 27 02:05:17 2002
From: Norbert.Klamann at klamann-software.de (Norbert Klamann)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 23:05:17 -0800
Subject: Serial.py woes
References: <mailman.1038360999.28458.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <65c27c6b.0211262305.36235eed@posting.google.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1038360999.28458.python-list at python.org>...
> I am using Roger Burnhams SioModule22 to interface with a RS232
> medical device.  I can do a basic handshake with the device and
> nothing more.  All other commands that I attempt are ignored (no data
> sent back).  The basic handshake is: I send a CR, it sends back a
> '*'.  

[details snipped]

> 
> Any and all advice much appreciated.

So be it:

Maybe this post can help you :

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=r77ooukb98cbfbpcqbitl9g53vuokkl79s%404ax.com&output=gplain

The thing works for me, I by myself am no specialist for serial lines
either.

But the point could be the loop in this function

[from the above mentioned post]

def readuntilok(s):
    ol=[]
    while 1:
        c=s.read()
        if not c:
            break
        ol.append(c)
        ostring="".join(ol)
        if len(ol)>3 and ostring[-4:]=="OK\r\n":
            break
    return ostring


HTH


Norbert Klamann

> 
> For the old-timers, the device is a Neurostar Ms92B.


Whats that ???? <grin>
> 
> John Hunter
> 
> python2.2


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Nov 26 05:40:19 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:40:19 +0100
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no> <artvr3$cbe$2@wheel2.two14.net> <kps5uugnftv0jk2c23sm8v96gcv9l3n2kc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <arvjk1$ibq$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:09:32 GMT, Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com>
wrote:

>In my own personal experience, the most common typo I make in C like
>languages is the =/== error. I'm lucky enough to generally see this
>error before I send it to the compiler and fool myself into thinking
>the code is good.

It seems strange that the - in my opinion - most frequent cause of
typos in C has spilled over to Python in a mutated and slightly less
prominent form and could stay undetected there for a long time. I mean
the ";" symbol that is (not) needed to close a statement in C and it's
related form, the ":" symbol that is needed (?) in Python's "if"
statement.

It is errors caused by requirements like these, and the code-reuse
fallacy (which meme has kept microsoft at the top of the software
development industry for decades) that have stalled economic and
social progress to such a degree that there's no space colon-y (;-:)
on mars yet nor have we begun terraforming it, which is overdue for at
least 20 years.

Regards,
	 Anton.

---

certainly not 44!


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 11 12:56:18 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:56:18 -0800
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
References: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com> <mailman.1037014155.15486.python-list@python.org> <uel9sryab.fsf@scientia.com>
Message-ID: <3DCFEF42.ABCAA24C@alcyone.com>

Paul Rudin wrote:

> Yes, there are circumstances where this looks ok; but I'm a bit uneasy
> with this idiom. The main problems being:
> 
> - (as you say) you need to depend on the value of y;
> 
> - potentially both y and z are evaluated; and
> 
> - there's a degree of obfuscation here, the code is less
>   comprehensible than something like: if x then y else z.

Basically, you want the equivalent of the conditional (ternary) operator
in C, but in Python.  There is no such creature.  So you need to
compromise readability for a hack.  To get around the y being
potentially false problem, you need to do something even uglier:

	(x and [y] or [z])[0]

This will now work properly since a non-empty list is always true, but
most people will agree that this sacrifices readability to the breaking
point.

The conditional operator (in whatever Pythonic form) is one of the only
features I really miss from other languages, since if you're doing
trivial selection, it can actually increase readability.  But not if you
have to use some hacked-up expression that _almost_ acts like a
conditional operator, but not quite, meaning that you 1. have to
recognize the somewhat peculiar idiom and 2. more importantly, recognize
when the idiom won't work and avoid using it then.

Because of this, I use the simply (x, y)[p] selection when x and y are
constants and p is known to be Boolean, and simply avoid trying to use
conditional operators elsewhere in a language that (for better or worse)
does not have them.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ There is _never_ no hope left.  Remember.
\__/ Louis Wu
    Max Pandaemonium / http://www.maxpandaemonium.com/
 A sampling of Max Pandameonium's music.


From lvirden at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 08:25:21 2002
From: lvirden at yahoo.com (lvirden at yahoo.com)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 13:25:21 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <usffc087vtip40@corp.supernews.com> <aq8g9u$6c7$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <4f49d232.0211061432.593d46b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqdpk1$5ur$2@srv38.cas.org>

According to Laotseu <bdesth at free.fr>:
:Frodo Morris <graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
:news:<aq8g9u$6c7$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>...
:> that's what I call the conducting 
:> machine: "Apple" because it sends Jobs away, does nothing for a while 
:> then gets Jobs back :-) 

As long as your application is elegant, ergonometrically superior, and
technologically sexy, it will be an applicable name...
-- 
Tcl - The glue of a new generation.  <URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/ >
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
<URL: mailto:lvirden at yahoo.com > <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/ >


From wolfoxbr at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 22 07:37:12 2002
From: wolfoxbr at hotmail.com (Roberto Amorim)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 04:37:12 -0800
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org> <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <82c04a2.0211220437.3181e213@posting.google.com>

> On the FreeBSD 4.7-STABLE machine, you need 2 to 17 chunks each time, and
> this is what the receiving end looks like:
> read 501760 bytes in 0.053s (9160 KB/s)
> read 512000 bytes in 0.041s (12338 KB/s)
> read 522240 bytes in 0.059s (8707 KB/s)
> read 532480 bytes in 0.064s (8092 KB/s)
> read 542720 bytes in 0.058s (9163 KB/s)
> read 552960 bytes in 0.068s (7927 KB/s)
> read 563200 bytes in 0.070s (7879 KB/s)
> read 573440 bytes in 0.054s (10460 KB/s)
> read 583680 bytes in 0.065s (8770 KB/s)
> read 593920 bytes in 0.074s (7788 KB/s)
> read 604160 bytes in 0.078s (7520 KB/s)

I got similar results to the FreeBSD times running your server/client
scripts on a Windows 2000 machine with Python 2.2.2.

I've noticed the Python versions are different (2.1.1 on Mandrake,
2.2.1 on FreeBSD). Perhaps you should try the same version? Python 2.2
introduced the new type/class structure and perhaps sockets were
affected (for some unknown reason).

It's really odd, since FreeBSD sockets usually have very good
performance. Did you try wget on FreeBSD? Is it normal?

Roberto


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Nov 27 04:10:22 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 03:10:22 -0600
Subject: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
In-Reply-To: <3DE4448E.5080201@attglobal.net>
References: <3DE4448E.5080201@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <1038388222.2039.144.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 22:05, Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> What I'd like to be able to do is implement a complete GUI-based control 
> application (with buttons, slider, whatever widgets the app needs) 
> accessible over the web.

If you confine yourself to HTML widgets (which does not includes
sliders, for instance), this is obviously possible -- that's what forms
are, after all.  If you want widgets beyond what's available in HTML
(either more responsive/interactive, or simply widgets HTML doesn't
have, like decent file selection), then you will have to either code up
a Java applet (potentially in Jython), or write a client application.

If you write a client application, you can use whatever Python GUI you
want (Tkinter, wxWindows, etc).  You may wish to communicate to the
server using XMLRPC.  For something more advanced you could use Pyro
(pyro.sf.net) or another distributed object system (of which there are
several).

There's many examples of XMLRPC servers for Python, and many of the
Python web frameworks contain XMLRPC support.  You should be able to
integrate XMLRPC into your web server system, though I'd encourage you
to consider using a framework.  To choose a framework, see:
  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming



-- 
Ian Bicking           Colorstudy Web Development
ianb at colorstudy.com   http://www.colorstudy.com
PGP: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0x9B9E28B7
4869 N Talman Ave, Chicago, IL 60625 / (773) 275-7241





From thehugonline at yahoo.de  Fri Nov  8 05:35:33 2002
From: thehugonline at yahoo.de (HugOnline)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 02:35:33 -0800
Subject: Newbie-list-problem: how to supress constraining  2 lists - a=b ?
Message-ID: <813cfe33.0211080235.5d4b8c9e@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I'm a Python - newbie and I can not solve the following problem:

>>>a=[8,7,6,5,4]   # set this list to a
>>>b=a             # I' want to have two same lists: a and b
>>>b.sort()        # b should be sorted
>>>print b         # it's ok 
[4,5,6,7,8]
>>>print a
[4,5,6,7,8]        # but a is sorted, too !!!  

How can I suppress the constraining of a and b? I want to have in the
result two list - a unsorted and b sorted. Is there a switch to supress
it?

Regards  HugOnline


From ngterry2000 at yahoo.com.hk  Mon Nov 11 22:41:41 2002
From: ngterry2000 at yahoo.com.hk (=?big5?q?Terence=20Ng?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:41:41 +0800 (CST)
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
Message-ID: <20021112034141.64081.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com>

Could someone provide me an HTML email marketing
(mailing list) script that allow me to capture the
prospects' email list from MySQL and send HTML email
through Windows 2000, IIS (Internet Information
Server)? The scripts I can find are either too heavy
or in Unix environment.

Thanks!

_________________________________________________________
??(???)????(???)??????(???)...
Over 800 latest ringtones, only on Yahoo!
http://ringtone.yahoo.com.hk



From revanna at mn.rr.com  Tue Nov 19 23:15:49 2002
From: revanna at mn.rr.com (Anna)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 04:15:49 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org> <slrnasuojg.l14.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.20.04.16.26.459889@mn.rr.com>

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:50:57 +0000, Robin Munn wrote:

> Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> I'm certainly amazed at the tolerance people have for questions that
>> are readily answered in a number of on-line tutorials, and in both the
>> Python books that I have (Learning Python and the Python Cookbook). In
>> the end, the friendly attitude may be the killer feature.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you think a response like: "That's covered in the
> Python tutorial -- look at [URL]" will strike a newbie as friendly or
> not? I ask because that's the kind of answer I will tend to write when
> I'm in a hurry. Sometimes I will take the time to phrase the answer in
> my own words, but often I won't want to duplicate the work that someone
> else has already done in writing that tutorial. So if you were a newbie
> getting a curt response like that, would you feel it was a brushoff, or
> would you feel like your question had been answered?

Okay - you asked. And since I am a newbie, I?ll answer.

Before asking a question here, I?d have already read the tutorial (and
probably 3 more tutorials and done a google search too). I wouldn?t feel
comfortable asking here unless I had.

So if I?m still here asking, it?s because I need an answer that *isn?t*
just a reference to the tutorial, something from a live human being... So,
yeah, I guess I would consider it a brushoff, unless you took the time to
expand on the tutorial in some way... Personally, I?d far rather get no
answer than ?RTFM, silly newbie?... cuz chances are, I already did...

Just my $.03 worth.

Anna



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 15 08:16:41 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 14:16:41 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <mailman.1037224700.11546.python-list@python.org> <m3ptt9p0rw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <ar0cso$iua$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3r8doxkem.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <ar2kl9$1nd$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <m3znsbkm6e.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:

> That sounds reasonable but the problem is that as the receiver of a
> donation you are not in a good bargaining position. 

That sounds convincing, but it is still wrong: For code contributions,
we do a lot of bargaining, and, in all cases, for the better of the
Python future. It may be that individual contributors disagree, but at
large, only very strict procedures allow to maintain a project of that
size at all. 

If we wouldn't require people to follow these procedures, it would
increase the work needed to process an individual contribution, and we
could accept *fewer* contributions than we can accept now. If you look
at the SF pages, you see that some patches date back up to a year; bug
reports data back 2 years (with an ever-growing backlog).

Since I'm convinced that contributors appreciate negative feedback
(with an option of improving their submission) over getting no
feedback at all, I feel that anything that helps to process all
submissions is in the interest of the contributors at large.

> Requiring identification instead of just asking for it will cause a
> lot of information to be filtered out even before its gets a chance
> to be evaluated.

That is an unproven theory. It will cause information to be filtered
out, yes. Some people refuse to use SF at all; some of those post to
python-list instead. If the latter group is a remarkable fraction of
the former, I think we lose only a little information.

Regards,
Martin


From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 26 05:58:23 2002
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:58:23 +0000
Subject: Gnuplot on Windows
Message-ID: <F37UP5t27eRBx9bup7d00001d4a@hotmail.com>

<problem description snipped>
>I too had this problem. I had to change the call to pgnuplot to
>include the full path to the program (rather than having it simply on
>the path), and got things to work (whoo-Hoo!) using gnuplot 3.8i for
>Windows (under Win2k).

Cheers Duane,

I never put pgnuplot on the path, so I had to put the full path into the 
program from the start- like this:

>>>Gnuplot.GnuplotOpts.gnuplot_command='f:\<dirs>\pgnuplot.exe'

Is this what you mean, or did you have to change the gp_win32.py module? Or 
is there another option I didn't notice?

I notice you've got wgnuplot 3.8i, whereas I've got 3.71 . I didn't manage 
to find a binary for any of the 3.8 versions. Python 2.2.2, Gnuplot-py 1.6.

>Hope this helps,
>Duane

It's good to know someone somewhere is getting this to work.

Thanks,
Paul

>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From achim.domma at syynx.de  Tue Nov 19 13:37:52 2002
From: achim.domma at syynx.de (Achim Domma)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:37:52 +0100
Subject: popen / batchfile / environment variables
Message-ID: <are0ca$bm$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Hello,

I want to write a python script with automaticaly builds a VC.Net solution.
To make VS.Net usable from commandline, I first have to execute a batchfile
which sets the required environment variables. In a Dos-Box I would do
something like this:

path_to\vcvars32.bat
devenv solution_file.sln /rebuild "Release"

If I use popen or system to do the same, every call runs in his own
environment, so the changes made by the .bat file do not change the settings
for the second call.

Any idea how to do that in python?

regards,
Achim




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Thu Nov 28 16:56:43 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 22:56:43 +0100
Subject: Problem opening files while using os.path.walk
In-Reply-To: <4f5748b4.0211281337.5597a4ac@posting.google.com>; from martian_bob@portalofevil.com on Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 01:37:47PM -0800
References: <4f5748b4.0211281337.5597a4ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021128225643.Y11257@prim.han.de>

R. Arens wrote:
> Hi. I'm writing what should be a simple function that will walk a
> directory structure, opening and joining all files within the
> directory tree into a single huge file. I'm using os.path.walk and
> testing the list of files returned to the function specified in walk
> to make sure that each file is actually a file as opposed to another
> directory - herein lies the problem. The function isn't seeing
> _anything_ as a file, and is just skipping it. This one has me quite
> perplexed, and I'd appreciate any help anyone can offer. Thanks!
> 
> Code follows....
> 
> import os, sys
> 
> def walkJoin(out, dirname, names):
>     print "Current directory: " + dirname
>     names.sort()
>     for name in names:

you have to do 

          name = os.path.join(dirname, name)

to actually have the full path. 

    holger



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 13 10:00:19 2002
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 07:00:19 -0800
Subject: Accessor Methods (Was: Re: An evangelist's handbook?)
References: <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list@python.org> <usnipihg3okna2@corp.supernews.com> <d6dae77c.0211081300.c94f95a@posting.google.com> <owWy9.11842$XO.493367@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0211130700.7296e54d@posting.google.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<owWy9.11842$XO.493367 at news2.tin.it>...
> >    What is the benefit of "public by default"?
> 
> Minimizing boilerplate.  90% of exposed properties in languages and
> object models which don't support that lead to a lot of boilerplate:
> ... 
> or (in COM/C++):
> 
>     HRESULT get_Pliffo(WhateverType* pVal) {
>         if(!pVal) return E_POINTER;
>         *pVal = m_Pliffo;
>     }
>
> and so on, and so forth.  There is no benefit whatsoever in all that
> boilerplate.  Maybe, if one has been educated to such strict discipline,
> there is a "feel-good factor" -- "See, Mum, I'm being a good boy and
> only accessing Pliffo via an accessor method!".  

I agree with accessor methods being boilerplate in Python. But in C++,
under some circumstances, it's a real necessity.

The one place that I find it necessary to use accesor methods is for
base classes to access attributes of derived classes.

An object often need to access attributes from four places: (a)
attributes from its own-level class, (b) attributes from its base
class(es), (c) attributes from another object belonging to another
class, (d) attributes from a subclass, this last point because a
method is implemented at the base class level.

Python can do all of (a), (b), (c) and (d).

C++ cannot do (d), at least not in a simple manner. (And you don't
want to have circular "#include"s.)

In Python, I often would check the existence of an attribute before
proceeding:

    if hasattr(self, 'x'):
        .... do something with self.x

This is great for methods implemented at the base class level that
need to access attributes of subclasses. C++ can't do this, in a
straightforward manner. To fix idea, the base class could be "Person",
the derived class could be "USTaxablePerson", and "x" be U.S. tax-id
or social security number.

One way out is for C++ to implement the variable 'x' at the base class
level. But this means that objects that don't have the 'x' attributes
still need to carry that data field. (e.g: infants don't have tax-id).
This is not a problem when the number of data fields is small, or when
the number of person is small. It becomes a problem when you have many
data fields and many persons.

What I have found out is, for some problems in C++, you often want to
make powerful subclasses with minimum data attributes. That is, base
classes will have a lot of methods, but only a few data members. On
the other hand, subclasses add more data attributes, but not more
methods.

It is in these types of problems that accessor methods are necessary.
It is much more economical and natural for objects in the class
hierarchy to share methods than to share data attributes. The getX()
method at the base class would simply raise an error, because 'x' does
not exist at the base class level. The getX() in the subclass would
return the appropriate value of x. Not just because U.S. tax-id is
needed for one particular purpose, would we implement that data field
for all persons (or martians), and put value NULL there. If there are
10 billion persons/martians, you'd be wasting many billion bytes, for
nothing. Again, the problem is small if that's the only data field we
are talking about, but in a complex class hierarchy tree with many
subclasses and many instances, you'll have to start to pay attention
as to where to put the data members.

C++ has virtual methods, but no virtual data members.

And, that to me, is the main reason why C++ needs accessor methods.

Hung Jung


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 14:29:22 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:29:22 +0000
Subject: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au>
 <9PvekLArvL49Ewa2@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <arqrso$b2j$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <3GBMGUASiS49EwqD@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <arqrso$b2j$1 at wheel2.two14.net>, maney at pobox.com writes
.... anything with a lambda is already doomed as the lambda time
dominates. As for the del I use it to remove the possibility that memory
use from the first test will cause problems for the second etc
>maney at wheel2:~$ python2.2 sorry.py
>for loop took 2.58 to make a list of 142857 items
>list comprehension took 2.46 to make a list of 142857 items
>map took 3.24 to make a list of 142857 items
>
>Okay, that's enough for now.

-- 
Robin Becker


From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Tue Nov 26 08:35:03 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 13:35:03 GMT
Subject: Simple SQL-statements into Python classes
References: <xbKE9.4143$8E1.78023@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <slrnau6tug.10s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

Thomas Weholt <2002 at weholt.org> wrote:
> Has anybody made an attempt at converting simple SQL-statements ( mainly
> plain selects ) into Python objects? I'm thinking of trying to make a parser
> that takes the most basic version sql-statements (select, insert, update,
> delete) and convert them into a python class with methods like load, insert,
> save and delete.
> 
> If anybody has anything similar or have opinions on this matter, please let
> me know.

There are tons of object-relational mappers for Python. In one of my unit test
modules, however, I do something very simple, which might perhaps give some
inspiriation:

    [...]

    # This isn't that nice, you can ignore it; the createXXX() return the
    # primary id of the created record:

    def createProject(self, number=""):
        cursor = self.con.cursor()
        cursor.execute("""
            INSERT INTO RELPROJECT
                (PROJ_PROJECT_NAME, PROJ_PROJECT_NO)
            VALUES (:p1, :p2)
            """, ("TEST" + number, "TEST" + number))
        cursor.execute("SELECT PROJ_SEQ.CURRVAL FROM DUAL")
        return cursor.fetchone()[0]

    [...]

    # *Generic* UPDATE statement wrapper (contains some junk, too - this is
    # only for the test cases, not safe SQL):

    def _changeTable(self, tablename, primkey, id, **kwargs):
        cursor = self.con.cursor()

        colnames = kwargs.keys()
        values = []
        for val in kwargs.values():
            if type(val) is DateTimeType:
                val = date2str(val)
            elif type(val) is type(""):
                val = "'%s'" % val
            else:
                val = str(val)
            values.append(val)

        cursor.execute("UPDATE " + tablename + " SET " + \
            ", ".join(["%s=%s" % (k,v) for k, v in zip(colnames, values)]) + \
            "WHERE %s = %i" % (primkey, id))

    # But here, I'm able to create wrappers for the UPDATE statements with
    # *very little* code :-)

    def changeOpLoc(self, id, **kwargs):
        self._changeTable("CTLG_OP_LOC_TYPE", "COLT_ID", id, **kwargs)

    def changeLocation(self, id, **kwargs):
        self._changeTable("CTLG_LOCATION_TYPE", "CLOC_ID", id, **kwargs)

    [...]


    # Here's how to use the update statement wrappers:

    oploc = self.createOpLoc(self.getTestLocation())

    self.changeOpLoc(colt_id, COLT_OP_STARTED_MON='Y',
                              COLT_OP_STARTED_TUE='Y',
                              COLT_OP_STARTED_WED='Y',
                              COLT_OP_STARTED_THU='Y',
                              COLT_OP_STARTED_FRI='Y',
                              COLT_OP_STARTED_SAT='N',
                              COLT_OP_STARTED_SUN='N',
                              COLT_WD_START='Y',
                              COLT_WD_END='Y',
                              COLT_S2T=0,
                              COLT_STRESS_UNIT='h',
                              COLT_DUR_TPD=0,
                              COLT_T0=24*3 + 2)

Just food for thought. I didn't say it's particularly good food ;-)
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From exarkun at meson.dyndns.org  Tue Nov 26 17:49:14 2002
From: exarkun at meson.dyndns.org (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:49:14 -0500
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
In-Reply-To: <uu7ogatjhprm9b@news.supernews.com>
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <698f09f8.0211261046.582254a5@posting.google.com> <uu7ogatjhprm9b@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20021126224914.GA11341@meson.dyndns.org>

On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 04:05:27PM -0500, John Roth wrote:
> 
> Well, both filter and map are defined only for lists, so list
> comprehensions don't provide a reduction of function there. Reduce is
> defined for sequences.

>>> def notAList(x):
...     while x:
...         yield x
...         x -= 1
... 
>>> map((2).__mul__, notAList(10))
[20, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2]
>>> 

  Hmmm.  The return type is always a list, sure.  The input need only be
iterable.

> 
> I could see filter and reduce as methods. Since map is a function across
> a number of input lists, I have a somewhat harder time seeing it that
> way - it looks a bit assymetric to me.

  map *might* make sense as a function method (oy) but then, since Python
has more than one type of callable, that wouldn't be too hot either.  I
don't think I'd like seeing any of the three defined this way though.

  Jp

-- 
C/C++/Java/Perl/Python/Smalltalk/PHP/ASP/XML/Linux (User+Admin)
Genetic Algorithms/Genetic Programming/Neural Networks
Networking/Multithreading/Legacy Code Maintenance/OpenGL
See my complete resume at http://intarweb.us:8080/
--
 12:00am up 24 days, 10:54, 7 users, load average: 1.89, 1.23, 0.80
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From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Fri Nov 15 04:30:52 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:30:52 +0100
Subject: tkMessageBox: Changing Fonts, Colors, etc.
References: <83d1ra.p19.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <ar2eb3$imp$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

> I cannot seem to find a reference on how to change the font type, size,
> etc. and colors for one of the tkMessageBox critters like showinfo() or
> showwarning()
> 
> Could some kind soul, direct me to same, please?

AFAIK, you just can't. These message boxes are managed internally by Tk, 
sometimes by directly using API calls for the current platform (e.g. on 
Windows, where the message boxes are regular Windows ones, as can be seen 
in non-english versions of Windows: on a french version, a call to askyesno 
will show a dialog with buttons labelled "Oui" and "Non" ...).

If you're on Un*x, there are tcl scripts that actually implement the 
dialogs. You'll find them near the libtk<version>.so library, in the 
tk<version> directory. You may hack them to do want you want, but you still 
won't be able to customize them from your application...
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From donnal at donnal.net  Tue Nov  5 16:01:20 2002
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 13:01:20 -0800
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
Message-ID: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com>

If one wishes use an OSI-approved license for one's own code, there
are many to choose from, two of which are GPL and the PSF license. If
one chooses GPL, there are explicit instructions at the Gnu Web site
on how to use the license. On the other hand, I have not seen any such
instructions for using the PSF license. Can one simply refer to the
PSF license without making changes? Or is it advisable to make a
revised copy, changing the name of the name of the owner/copyright
holder from PSF to oneself, for example? What else is required?

Thanks,
Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov 19 18:12:26 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:12:26 -0600
Subject: Combinations Algorithm.
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E97D1F@mail.hebmex.com>

OK, Thanks y'all for your replies.

I've made a simple generator function which returns all
combinations of a given size, of the elements of a list.

Here's the code, for all who wish to play with it,
criticize it, ignore it, use it, abuse it, read it,
etc. ;-)

--------------------------------------------------------
def Combinations(set, length):
    """Combinations([...], length) -> iterator
    """
    # Catch anything we don't like.
    if not set or not length or len(set) < length:
        yield (())
    elif len(set) == length:
        yield tuple(set)
    elif len(set) > length:
        Z = (set[0],)
        for c in Combinations(set[1:], length-1):
            yield Z + c
        for c in Combinations(set[1:], length):
            yield c


for c in Combinations(range(5), 3):
    print c
--------------------------------------------------------

Enjoy!?

;-)

-gustavo



From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Nov  6 17:24:26 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:24:26 -0800
Subject: I "think" global is broken
In-Reply-To: <06qdnevbopUGFFSgXTWc3Q@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <00a001c285e3$445a6380$21795418@dell1700>

[stuff sniped]
> Am I missing something?

I don't think that you fully understand assignment works in Python.
Unfortunately, I'm not smart enough to explain this, except to say that
assignment is just a name binding/rebuilding operation. Here is an
example:

>>> from math import sin
>>> import math
>>> sin == math.sin 
1 # because the name "math.sin" and "sin" are bound to the same object
>>> sin = math.cos
>>> sin == math.sin
0 # because the name "sin" was rebound to a different object, but
math.sin
  # was untouched

Some tips for your code:
1. never use from module import *, it's evil
2. just use import test
3. you can change test._trace by using:

test._trace = <value>

Cheers,
Brian




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Nov  4 16:43:57 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:43:57 -0500
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com> <aq6mh7$k0l$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <3DC6EA1D.5020605@rogers.com>

http://simpleparse.sf.net/

HTH,
Mike

Joshua Marshall wrote:

>Regular expressions are not powerful enough to be used to match
>strings when you need to be intelligent about nesting.  There are
>probably parser generators available--links anyone?
>
>For your particular application, also take a look at the "parser"
>Python module.  It's a little ugly, since it gives you complete
>(rather than abstract) syntax trees, but it may help you.
>
>
>Michele Simionato <mis6 at pitt.edu> wrote:
>  
>
>>Suppose I want to parse the following expression:
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>>>>exp='(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>
>  
>
>>I want to extract the first part, i.e. '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)'.
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>Now if I use a greedy regular expression
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>>>>import re; greedy=re.compile('\(.*\)')
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>
>  
>
>>I obtain to much, the full expression:
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>>>>match=greedy.search(exp); match.group()
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>
>  
>
>>'(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>On the other hand, if I use a nongreedy regular expression
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>>>>nongreedy=re.compile('\(.*?\)')
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>
>  
>
>>I obtain too little:
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>>>>match=nongreedy.search(exp); match.group()
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>
>  
>
>>'(a*(b+c*(2-x)'
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>Is there a way to specify a clever regular expression able to match
>>the first parenthesized group  ? What I did, was to write a routine
>>to extract the first parenthesized group:
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>def parenthesized_group(exp):
>>    nesting_level,out=0,[]
>>    for c in exp:
>>	out.append(c)
>>        if c=='(': nesting_level+=1
>>	elif c==')': nesting_level-=1
>>	if nesting_level==0: break
>>    return ''.join(out)
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>>>>print parenthesized_group(exp)
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>
>  
>
>>(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>Still, this seems to me not the best way to go and I would like to know
>>if this can be done with a regular expression. Notice that I don't need
>>to control all the nesting levels of the parenthesis, for me it is enough
>>to recognize the end of the first parenthesized group.
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>Obiously, I would like a general recipe valid for more complicate
>>expressions: in particular I cannot assume that the first group ends 
>>right before a mathematical operator (like '+' in this case) since
>>these expressions are not necessarely mathematical expressions (as the
>>example could wrongly suggest). In general I have expressions of the
>>form
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>( ... contains nested expressions with parenthesis... )...other stuff
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>where other stuff may contain nested parenthesis. I can assume that 
>>there are no errors, i.e. that all the internal open parenthesis are
>>matched by closing parenthesis.
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>Is this a problem which can be tackled with regular expressions ?
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>TIA,
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>--
>>Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
>>210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
>>Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
>>Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/
>>    
>>

-- 
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From magnus at thinkware.se  Fri Nov  1 23:03:50 2002
From: magnus at thinkware.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Magnus_Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 05:03:50 +0100
Subject: Textbooks on Perl/Python
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2Iw9.931$%2.77@news1.bredband.com>

Jalab wrote:
> Greetings all,
> Any help in finding a university level textbook on the subject of
> "Scripting languages" I am mainly looking for a book that covers Perl
> and Python only as the 2 main scripting languages and that is written
> for students, i.e. chapter summary, exercises, etc. I hate to force my
> student to buy and study from two separate books.

Honestly, I don't know if there is such a thing. Most
books about Python are listed at:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonBooks

Both Perl and Python book as usually practical guides
or reference books for practicioners, rather than
school books. Neither language has typically been on
the curriculum. (Although I think this will change.)

There is Perl to Python Migration by Martin C. Brown,
but that's hardly what you are looking for...

Otherwise I think your best bet might be some Linux
programming book. But that won't be school books exactly...

Python: Visual QuickStart Guide by Chris Fehily is a
fairly cheap Python book, if you are worried about
costs. It's not a typical school book though.

A book commonly used for teaching Python is "Learning
Python", by Lutz / Archer, but it's slightly dated.

How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning with Python
by Allen Downey, Jeffrey Elkner, Chris Meyers teaches
basic programming skills using Python, but that's not
really what you are looking for I guess. It's probably
the only book about Python written with students as the
prime target. It's rather a high school book though. It's
also on the web http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython.html

You could also have a look at web sites like
http://diveintopython.org/

I hope you find something suitable...



From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov 17 13:46:37 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:46:37 GMT
Subject: python on unix [getting started]
References: <YnGB9.566$Kw6.401397@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <m34ragk3ts.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <POQB9.636$Kw6.474127@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <huRB9.27280$Yw.1355064@news2.tin.it>

dsavitsk wrote:
   ...

> So perhaps the question is, how does one write a wrapper for using a
> library with python? (I see there is a xmms wrapper, but I don't have X
> installed, so I assume that that is not an option) again, on win32, it is
> simple enough to use either windll or even vb to declare non-COM functions
> and write COM
> wrappers to them.  Where would I look to do this on unix?

You have MANY options, including SWIG, raw Python/C API, etc.

Perhaps the most fascinating one is Greg Ewing's pyrex,
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/ -- 
Michael JasonSmith's "Quick Guide" shows how to use pyrex
to wrap a couple of Unix libraries, too.


Alex



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Nov 10 14:57:55 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:57:55 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqlos7$66p$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <qpwz9.16127$oC3.1394670@news010.worldonline.dk> <3dce96ad$0$12451$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> <3DCEB61A.EF3D8E05@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3DCEBA43.941F62A2@alcyone.com>

[Followuping up to my own post here ...]

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Hmm, m-expressions are the writing variant I mentioned in another part
> of this thread, where unambiguous parentheses are simply removed.  At
> least, that's my exposure the the term as used by Chaitin in _The
> Unknowable_.  His use of m-expressions over s-expressions, in fact,
> were
> one of the motivations for me to stop reading.

Evidently, Chaitin's usage of the term was non-standard; some Google
research reveals that m-expressions are _not_ simply
s-expressions-without-unambiguous-parentheses:

	http://www.not-compatible.org/LISP/QA/mexpr.html
	http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EmExpressions

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ With such a weapon I could boil the Earth to vapor.
\__/ Chmeee
    CSBuddy / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/csbuddy/
 A Counter-Strike server log file monitor in Python.


From admin at e-tones.co.uk  Wed Nov 13 18:15:55 2002
From: admin at e-tones.co.uk (e-tones.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:15:55 -0000
Subject: Presenting Data neatly... how :)
Message-ID: <3dd2dd57$0$28316$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi all, im wring a command line python app that outputs 5 lines of data to
the user in the forum

Name1                       votes              %votes

so, an example output might be

Dell    45    40%
Microsoft   60    56%
IBM   4     5%

Is there anyway to format it like this:

Dell            45       40%
Microsoft   60       56%
IBM             4      5%


?

Help
Taz




From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Sun Nov  3 18:38:18 2002
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 01:38:18 +0200
Subject: pyqt rules
References: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <mailman.1036344603.1495.python-list@python.org> <3dc571d0$0$63818$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <7Dgx9.41909$Lg2.11396126@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3dc5c17a@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>

Bob X <bobx at linuxmail.org> wrote:
> I would love to use PyQt but it seems I have to have the Qt NC version to
> make it run but I cannot find a Windows binary anywhere.

How 'bout straight from the horses mouth?

ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qt/non-commercial/QtWin230-NonCommercial.exe

:M:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dipl.-Inf. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer   mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de 
  Raum 10b - ++49 69 798 28358       Fachbereich Informatik und Biologie  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Nov 20 12:41:19 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:41:19 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBB8BD.6020806@web.de>
Message-ID: <h3intucpgk2dg6vhul96pg5epcfva8o8ll@4ax.com>

>Common Lisp is not designed for newbies but for experts.

This little oft-repeated meme is exactly what has consigned
Common Lisp to the dust bin of programming history.

C//



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Nov  7 15:35:30 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 12:35:30 -0800
Subject: Python Browser Applets
In-Reply-To: <20021107104810.18770.42636.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021107104810.18770.42636.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E189tPP-0004E8-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Thursday 07 November 2002 02:48 am,  wrote:
> >?It seems like this would have to mean that the
> >?"Netscape Methods" would include drawing primitives
> >?or a canvas object that can be drawn to,
> 
> ? ?That would be a good way for it to work! But it doesn't :-(

Grumble. :-(
 
> >?but I haven't found it yet (Or maybe I'm misunderstanding
> >?how it works, and the plugin has to talk to the underlying window
> >?library -- but that seems bizarre and awkward).
> 
> ? ?The plugin creates a native window and uses platform specific drawing
> functions.

Ah well, I guess SDL+PyGame+PyUI can come to the rescue here. At
least the SDL+PyGame renderer is already written. So it's now just a
question of handing that native window to SDL. 

Thanks for clearing that up -- now I'm not chasing a wild goose
in the API, anyway.

> ? ?Yes, writing a cross platform plugin is lots of work, especially if you
> want it to integrate well into the browser, such as cooperating in sizing
> and in event routing including command keys. It is simpler if your plugin
> area is a fixed size area that is isolated from the browser.

Still interesting, though.  I'll probably come back to it after I get the 
Jython solution working, which I'm going to tinker with over the weekend.
(Looks like only ~200 lines of python need to be written for that, but I'll 
know for sure when I try it). The stand-alone application model shouldn't
require any work at all, except documentation.

Cheers,
Terry
 
--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From imbosol at vt.edu  Sun Nov 24 23:20:48 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:20:48 -0500
Subject: How to emulate matrix element access like 'a[i,j]'?
References: <3DE19718.E31F0985@irl.cri.nz>
Message-ID: <ars8h0$bdl$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Blair Hall wrote:
> I have a class with a private matrix member (a Numeric.array)
> and I'd like to allow clients to access matrix members through
> suitable functions.
> 
> How can I create classes of object that supports the
> access style:
>    aMatrix[ row_index, col_index ]
> 
> It seems that __setitem__ and __getitem__ are not the right way to go.


It certainly is.  When you write this:

    a[1,2]

Python interprets that as a[(1,2)]; that is, it creates a tuple and
passes that as the argument to __getitem__ and __setitem__.  So you
can define your class something like this:

    class allows_clients_to_access_matrix:
        ...

        def __getitem__(self,(row,column)):
            return self.private_matrix_member[row,column]

        def __setitem__(self,(row,column),value):
            self.private_matrix_member[row,colum] = value

The interesting thing is Python allows sequence unpacking into an
function argument.  This is an occasionally useful and not-well-known
trick.  However, that seems a little wasteful.  __getitem__ and
__setitem__ unpack a tuple just to pack it up again when subscripting
private_matrix_member.  Why not just pass the subscripts directly,
like this:

    class allows_clients_to_access_matrix:
        ...

        def __getitem__(self,subscripts):
            return self.private_matrix_member[subscripts]

        def __setitem__(self,subscripts,value):
            self.private_matrix_member[subscripts] = value

This is how I'd do it.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 13 15:35:59 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:35:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Help with searching a list
References: <8d3e714e.0211111913.2e0964c3@posting.google.com> <m2k7jissvt.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <slrnat5rej.fj.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:35:34 -0600, John Hunter napisa?(a):
>    Tony> Python newbie needs help with searching a list of lists.
>    Tony> What is the correct way for search a list of lists ?
> You can do this by 'flattening' the list -- ie, turning into a single
> list with all the elements of the component lists (recursively).  Look
I wrote my own version of flatten. It looks good for me besides of
one thing: a declaration of list 'b'. 
Here goes a code of that function:
---
import types
b = []

def flatten(x, a=1):
   for i in x:
     if type(i) == types.ListType:
        flatten(i, 0)
     else:
        b.append(i)
   if a==1:
      return b
---

and here's an example:
---
a=[[1,[2,[3,[4,[5,[6,7]]]]]],[8,9], 10]
print flatten(a)
---
returns a list: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]

So, looks fine, but, is there any way of declaring 'b' list
within flatten function? At the momment its a little bit ugly ;)

-- 
[ Wojtek gminick Walczak ][ http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ ]
[ gminick (at) hacker.pl ][ gminick (at) underground.org.pl  ]


From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 27 10:53:20 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:53:20 GMT
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnau9qqg.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

malik m <malik_martin at hotmail.com> wrote:
> hi yea i messed up here's the code sorry about the html too i was
> using it through hotmail while i learnd and still am learning how to
> use newsgroups....

That's OK, happens to all of us. This one came through just fine as
plain text.

> #chapter 3 test control structures 3.3
> print "hello, this program will tell me how many miles per gallon your
> car drives by the \n amount of miles entered by the user along with
> the size of his/her tank."
> 
> #initialize variables
> totalMilesDriven = 0 #total miles driven
> 
> totalGallonsPerTank = 0 #total gallons per tank
> 
> counter = 0 #bogus counter
> 
> #processing phase
> gallonsPerTank = raw_input("Enter how many gallons your tank holds, -1
> to end:")
> gallonsPerTank = int(gallonsPerTank)

You could also do this in one step, like:

    gallonsPerTank = int(raw_input("Enter how many gallons..."))

> 
> milesDriven = raw_input("enter how many miles driven, -1 to end:")
> milesDriven = int(milesDriven)

Here, too, you could do:

    milesDriven = int(raw_input("Enter how many miles..."))

> while gallonsPerTank or milesDriven != -1:

This line may not do what you think it does. Comparison operators have
higher priority than Boolean operators. This means that this line works
out as if it had parentheses around it like this:

    while (gallonsPerTank) or (milesDriven != -1):

What this line is doing is: first it checks to see whether
gallonsPerTank evaluates to a true value. In Python, *any* value can be
evaluated as true or false. The rules are this. For numbers, 0 is false,
any other number is true. For sequences (like lists and tuples), an
empty list, [], or an empty tuple, (), is false, and any other sequence
is true. For dictionaries, an empty dictionary, {}, is false, and any
other dictionary is true.

So: the while statement above first checks that gallonsPerTank is true
(i.e., non-zero). And if gallonsPerTank really is non-zero, then *it
never evaluates milesDriven at all*. The reason for this is because of
"shot-circuiting" Boolean operations, are really useful things once you
understand how they work. See, "(True) or (anything)" will evaluate to
True, no matter what that "anything" is. And "(False) and (anything)"
will evaluate to False, again no matter what that "anything" is. So if
the first half of an "or" operation has a true value, the second half is
never evaluated. And if the first half of an "and" operation has a false
value, the second half is never evaluated.

But all this is a bit of a tangent. What I think you really meant to do
above was check both gallonsPerTank and milesDriven, and if either one
of them was -1, then quit. Is that right? In that case, what you really
want is this line:

    while (gallonsPerTank != -1) and (milesDriven != -1):

Note the "and" instead of the "or". I figured that if *either*
gallonsPerTank *or* milesDriven was -1, you want the test to fail. That
means that both of them have to *not* be -1 for the test to succeed,
hence the "and".

>     averagea = milesDriven / gallonsPerTank

Once you've got your program working, you're going to be surprised by
the result of this line! Try it as-is, then put the following line at
the top of your program:

    from __future__ import division

And run it again. Notice the difference? I don't want to go into the
reasons for this right now, as this response is getting quite long
enough already. But the following page may help to explain what is going
on:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/whatsnew/node7.html

If that doesn't help explain things, then go ahead and ask another
question on this newsgroup, and someone will be happy to explain it to
you.

Also, if the user ever types in 0 for gallonsPerTank, this line will
fail with a ZeroDivisionException. Since you're not catching exceptions,
that will cause your progrm to quit immediately with an error message
(and probably a traceback of the line that caused the exception).
Exception handling is a larger topic than I really want to go into here,
so I'll just point you to the appropriate page in the Python Tutorial
for now:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node10.html

Again, if you have more questions after reading that, go ahead and ask;
people will be happy to enlighten you.

>     counter = counter + 1
>     print "your miles per gallon are", averagea
>     totalMilesDriven = totalMilesDriven + milesDriven
>     totalGallonsPerTank = totalGallonsPerTank + gallonsPerTank
>     gallonsPerTank = raw_input("Enter how many gallons your tank
> holds, -1 to end:")

Ah. Here's your problem: this time, gallonsPerTank is getting a string,
not an int. You need to convert it to an int the way you did above.

>     milesDriven = raw_input("enter how many miles driven, -1 to end:")

Ditto here. Convert this to an int as well.

> #termination phase
> if counter != 0:
>     average = float( totalMilesDriven ) / float( totalGallonsPerTank )
>     print "The total miles per gallon is", average
> else:
>     print "No data entered"

Hope this helps.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From ryan.oberto at dig.co.za  Thu Nov 21 05:24:36 2002
From: ryan.oberto at dig.co.za (Ryan oberto)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:24:36 +0200
Subject: gui
Message-ID: <20021121122436.57a50f9d.ryan.oberto@dig.co.za>

hey all 

i have just installed my firs python trying to learn it now 
is there a gui for it or must i just you the command line

thanks


Ryan Oberto
ryan at computersmith.co.za
ryan.oberto at dig.co.za
+27 82 877 3002

"Live the life you love
 Love the life you live"






From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Sun Nov 17 20:58:10 2002
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:58:10 -0800
Subject: Will I be in a pickle?
Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20021117174158.0201f728@pop.hurrah.com>

The documentation warns that unpickling from an untrusted socket is dangerous,
and also tells how to use find_global to protect myself.  I understand how one
would hack a naked pickle destination.

Can anyone confirm whether or not it is actually safe and secure to use cPickle
if I use find_global to restrict the data to a specific set of a few classes?

Can anyone give an example of a hack against the above scenario?

- Ken





From stuart at bmsi.com  Fri Nov 15 17:12:27 2002
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:12:27 -0500
Subject: Permutations algoritm?
References: <mailman.1037391865.1270.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar3rgb$cn8$1@nntp2-cm.news.eni.net>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:18:25 -0500, sismex01 wrote:

> Does anybody have a clear, simple, permutations algorithm in Python?

If you Google (google.com) comp.lang.python for "Python Permutation",
you will get lots of discussion.

However, I'll copy in the algorithm I liked best for permuting an
an arbitrary list: (STL algorithm works great on range(n))

Alex Martelli wrote:

*blink* -- yes... nonobvious but it works -- slicing the time to
permute range(10) [need to start using more substantial examples
here:-)] from 19.63 to 12.22 on my box.  However, the same trick
also works for the modifying-in-place "myperm", slicing ITS time
for permuting range(10) from 14.10 down to 10.13 (I'm only using
Python 2.3 now for all of these measurements).

And, applying Anton's trick to Duncan's best micro-optimization
of his in-place-modification approach:

def mypermy(l):
    pop, insert, append = l.pop, l.insert, l.append

    def halfperm():
        ll = l
        llen = len(ll)
        if llen <= 2:
            yield ll
            return
        aRange = range(llen)
        v = pop()
        for p in halfperm():
            for j in aRange:
                insert(j, v)
                yield ll
                del ll[j]
        append(v)

    for h in halfperm():
        yield h
        h.reverse()
        yield h
        h.reverse()

ITS time to permute range(10) is reduced from 12.13 to 9.59
Yes we do need two .reverse calls -- halfperm's dependent
on the list not being modified under it -- the alternative
way to write the final loop:

    for h in halfperm():
        p = h[:]
        yield p
        p.reverse()
        yield p

takes 11.03 to permute range(10), once again showing (here,
to me at least, less surprisingly) that modifying in-place
and undoing the modification is faster than making a new
list (a copy) and modifying the copy.


Alex


-- 
Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - Mozart background
song for the Microsoft "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.


From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Nov 13 18:59:07 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:59:07 -0500
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>
 <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net>
 <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
 <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
 <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
 <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
 <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
 <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
 <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <Ldu09kKkXIyb092yn@gnosis.cx>                

DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> wrote previously:
|OK, So too could the xml processing chain, probably in the same way.
|By holding the url in the stylesheet and indexing off some key.

I believe I've read this entire thread.  Maybe it's possible I missed a
post or two though.

Something I have not seen answered even once is:

    What BENEFIT would there be to putting the Python documentation
    in DocBook?

DaveP has written a bunch of things insulting other posters.  And a
bunch more observing (correctly enough) that with a whole lot of work,
the documentation toolchain could eventually get back to the state its
in now.

But for the life of me, I cannot figure out what good, however slight,
would come of such a conversion.

Of course, I write a few columns on XML, so I guess I'm prejudiced. :-)

Yours, David...



--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------




From s802645999 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 05:41:25 2002
From: s802645999 at yahoo.com (asdfasd asdfasdf)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 02:41:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: shutil module
In-Reply-To: <20021118102602.6644.17813.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <20021118104125.75881.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com>


hi all

i wanted to copy a file to another directory so i used the shutil module's copy() function. The name of this file will change everyday.eg, events-18-Nov-2002.txt and tomorrow will be events-19-Nov-2002.txt

i used:

import shutil

import glob

shutil.copy (glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events*'), r'c:\temp')

i couldn't seem to copy the file to c:\temp..it says

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#132>", line 1, in ?
    shutil.copy(glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events-*'),r'c:\temp')
  File "C:\Python22\lib\shutil.py", line 61, in copy
    dst = os.path.join(dst, os.path.basename(src))
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\ntpath.py", line 190, in basename
    return split(p)[1]
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\ntpath.py", line 149, in split
    while i and p[i-1] not in '/\\':
TypeError: 'in <string>' requires character as left operand

i checked the output of glob and it says

>>> glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events-*')
['c:\\winnt\\temp\\events-18-Nov-2002.txt']

could it be the double slash that is making the fault....??

thanks for anyhelp

 

 

 

 



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
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From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Nov  5 11:20:49 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:20:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: urllib2 occasionally hanging
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211042304060.13999-100000@w3eax.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211050819300.7702-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Ron Alford [KB0NUV] wrote:

> I have a python program running on a win2k machine (python version 2.2.1).
> The specific part of the program that I'm concerned with is a simple
> urlopen that runs every 5 minutes or so. The line reads: 
> 
> furl = urllib2.urlopen(updateURL)
> 
> Every so often, this call will go out, and never, ever return.  It doesn't
> seem to leave a trace in the web server's log.  I have a deep suspicion
> that this is a syscall that's getting hung up and never returning.
> 
> Anyone have a cute trick around this?

Try using the timeoutsocket module (find it via Goodle). Also, Python 2.3 
has socket timeouts built-in.

-Dave




From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Tue Nov 19 02:11:58 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:11:58 GMT
Subject: simple text editor w/ D&D of hyperlinks
References: <3DD9C593.9080102@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <2vlC9.16014$nK4.41293@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Andrew Dalke:

> I want a text editor where I can drag a hyperlink from Mozilla
> onto it and have the editor include that URL along with a
> hyperlink.

   The Mozilla (1.1) on X URL drag format appears incompatible with most
editors. On Windows, Scintilla can receive the URL text but not on X where
it is looking for "STRING", "TEXT", "COMPOUND_TEXT", or "text/uri-list"
formats. OTOH Classic Netscape uses a widely supported drag format.
Scintilla wouldn't be a good candidate for your other requirements, I'm just
mentioning it because I understand how its drag and drop code works.

   Neil




From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 13 15:34:26 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:34:26 -0600
Subject: Arrays?
In-Reply-To: <slrnat5p1i.f3.gminick@hannibal.localdomain> (Wojtek Walczak's
 message of "Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:54:53 +0000 (UTC)")
References: <3dd2a4fc$0$28317$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
	<slrnat5p1i.f3.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <m2heelnr8t.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Wojtek" == Wojtek Walczak <gminick at hacker.pl> writes:

    >>>> a=[[]]*2 a
    Wojtek> [[], []]
    >>>>

    Wojtek> Is that what you wanted?

Probably not, since this is the famous empty list gotcha (see the
recent thread 'pitfall for your amusement",
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&frame=right&th=967b1bba3344d6a9&seekm=yu993cq6hels.fsf%40europa.research.att.com#link10

The problem is that both elements of the list are the same object
instance [], so changing one changes the other, which is usually not
what you want

>>> a=[[]]*2 
>>> a[0].append('Hi mom')
>>> a
[['Hi mom'], ['Hi mom']]


John Hunter



From zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru  Wed Nov 13 04:20:33 2002
From: zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru (Lexy Zhitenev)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:20:33 +0300
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD1AB92.3030409@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <aqt5h1$7d1$1@serv.vrn.ru>

"Greg Ewing" <see_reply_address at something.invalid> wrote:
> ... Maybe
>
>     def foo():
>        const m = math
>        return m.pi
>
> The "const" statement would be evaluated when
> the "def" was executed, and "m" would appear in the
> local namespace when the function was called.
>
> Although "const" might not be the best name for
> it, since it's not really a constant, more like
> a local with an initial value.
>

What is this 'const' name? I haven't ever heard of this in Python.




From andrew.markebo at telia.com  Sun Nov 17 05:18:51 2002
From: andrew.markebo at telia.com (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:18:51 GMT
Subject: URLLIB2 EXCEPTION
References: <3DD6803C.6090008@libero.it>
Message-ID: <m365uwa48j.fsf@flognat.myip.org>

/ bart <e_viola at libero.it> wrote:
| I use function urllopen to connect to http web page. When resource
| doesn't present in location, urllopen returns exception. The web
| server, in this occasion, generates a page to communicate the error,
| but urlopen doesn't return it.
>
| What can I do to receive error page source code by urlopen?

Hmm doesn't the exception have this info? I think like member msg of
the exception.. 

Otherwise you have to dig into what urlopen does, and do the calls to
functions in urllib2 yourself. Not too hard if you know python a
little ;-)

       /Andy

-- 
 The eye of the beholder rests on the beauty!


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Tue Nov 26 23:10:32 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:10:32 +1300
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com> <2a001b6.0211241128.3d1ff56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DE445B8.7010801@something.invalid>

smartcardware.com wrote:

> "Python's internal object structure requires translating your ojects
> into python objects."
> 
> and
> 
> "double translation issues like Python does (C++ code passes
> translated object to python, python code calls back into C++ which
> must instance a new object and translate it to be usable YUK !!"


It's certainly not necessary to "translate" all your objects
into Python objects. You can easily extend Python with new
object types which "wrap" your data structures and provide
methods for accessing them from Python. References to these
objects can be freely passed around between Python and C/C++
code without needing to copy or translate anything.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From Jan.Wegner at zuken.de  Thu Nov 14 03:37:05 2002
From: Jan.Wegner at zuken.de (Jan D. Wegner)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:37:05 +0100
Subject: geometry problem with Tkinter
References: <aquppv$28g2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3DD360B1.8060507@zuken.de>

Hi,

no prob. here?

Python 2.2.2 (...) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32

Do we miss s'thing from the code?


Russell E. Owen schrieb/wrote:
> I've run into a problem displaying a fairly simple geometry;
> it displays, but goes into an infinite loop trying to grid everything
>
[...]

> Any idea what, if anything, I am doing wrong, and how best to fix it?
> 
> If necessary, I can put everything in one frame, but it ruins a logical 
> architecture.
> 
> -- Russell
> 

[...]

/j
-- 
Jan Wegner          Software Engineer         Zuken GmbH
Vattmannstrasse 3                      D-33100 Paderborn
     Tel: +49 5251 150627      Fax: +49 5251 150700
----*... and may all your GUIs be fast and friendly.*----





From jorgencederberg at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  4 02:14:25 2002
From: jorgencederberg at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Cederberg?=)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:14:25 +0100
Subject: Tkinter File Dialog Question
References: <6747bc9d.0211021953.4fd02462@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <l7px9.9$pU4.435@news.get2net.dk>

"Steve Zatz" <slzatz at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:6747bc9d.0211021953.4fd02462 at posting.google.com...
> In the Tkinter FileSaveAs Dialog - is there any way to get at the
> user's selection of a file extension?  If the user creates a file
> without an extension, I want to append the "Save as type" extension
> (what it's called under Windows), but I don't see any way to get at
> the dialog box's value for the file extension.  Any help would be
> appreciated.

Hi Steve,

you can use the option: 'defaultextension'. Example

>>> import tkFileDialog
>>> res = tkFileDialog.asksaveasfilename(defaultextension=".txt")
(user types in "myfilename")
>>> res
'myfilename.txt'

Remember the dot in the extension string. I just tried and it works, unless the user selects a filename that already exist.

Regards
Jorgen Cederberg




From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 21 11:10:53 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:10:53 GMT
Subject: Problem with list assignment
References: <mailman.1037892569.8801.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h34raauct4.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Jesse Lawrence <lawrence_jesse at yahoo.ca> writes:

> I'm using the following function to retrieve the
> headers from my mysql columns.  I want to shed the
> extra info, and just maintain the name of the column. 
> This might be really simple, but I can't seem to
> figure out why the assigment of the headers to the
> list header[] in my for loop isn't working.
> 
> Here's the function:
> 
> def mysqlFieldNames(conn):
>    cursor = conn.cursor()
>    cursor.execute ("DESCRIBE guestbook")
>    row = cursor.fetchall()
>    cursor.close()
>    # here's the problem area:
>    header = []
>    i = 0;
>    for r in row:
>       header[i] = r[0]
>       i = i + 1
>    return header
> 
> Now, when I just do a print r[0] in the for loop, I'm
> getting exactly what I want, it's just that when I try
> to assign it to header, that I get a "list assignment
> index out of range" error.
> 
> Am I overlooking something?

That lists don't grow on demand?

Try changing

   header = []
   i = 0;
   for r in row:
      header[i] = r[0]
      i = i + 1
   return header

to 

   header = []
   for r in row:
      header.append(r[0])
   return header

or even

   return [r[0] for r in row]

Cheers,
M.


-- 
  NUTRIMAT:  That drink was individually tailored to meet your
             personal requirements for nutrition and pleasure.
    ARTHUR:  Ah.  So I'm a masochist on a diet am I?
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 9


From usenet at coastergames.net  Sun Nov 17 23:57:54 2002
From: usenet at coastergames.net (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 04:57:54 GMT
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
References: <mailman.1037577025.1421.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mr_B9.3807$fY3.387052@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Tim Peters wrote:
possible.
> 
> BTW, the 2.3 sort is stable, although the language specification doesn't
> guarantee that.

What exactly is a 'stable' sort?

-- 
Tyler Eaves


From fedor at mailandnews.com  Tue Nov  5 13:29:14 2002
From: fedor at mailandnews.com (Fedor)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:29:14 +0100
Subject: how to import
Message-ID: <aq92co$iu9$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Hello,

I was somewhat confused by the following:
I try to import mx.DateTime in a module and import mx.ODBC from within
a class in that module.

[test1.py]
#This setup doesn't work:
import mx.DateTime
class A:
    def __init__(self):
        print mx.DateTime.now()
    def test(self):
        print mx.DateTime.now()
        import mx.ODBC
a=A()
#Results in: 2002-11-06 19:22:14.49
a.test()
#Results in: UnboundLocalError: local variable 'mx' referenced before 
assignment

[test2.py]
#However this one does:
import mx.DateTime
class A:
    def __init__(self):
        print mx.DateTime.now()
    def test(self):
        print mx.DateTime.now()
a=A()
#Results in: 2002-11-06 19:22:14.49
a.test()
#Results in: 2002-11-06 19:22:14.49

Can someone help me understand this?

Thanks,

Fedor





From admin at e-tones.co.uk  Wed Nov 13 14:15:28 2002
From: admin at e-tones.co.uk (e-tones.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:15:28 -0000
Subject: Arrays?
Message-ID: <3dd2a4fc$0$28317$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi all, right... wanted to create an array in my python program (2
dimensional), but I dont think it can, o-rather it can, it just doesnt call
it an array (damm stupid thing :p)

So im  looking to creat a list? If so, how do I make it 2 dimensional?

grr, driving me nuts :)

Cheers to anyone who can help
Taz





From oussoren at cistron.nl  Sat Nov  2 11:15:49 2002
From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 17:15:49 +0100
Subject: List slice assignment and custom sequences
Message-ID: <59D346AA-EE7E-11D6-867B-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>

Hi,

I have a custom sequence-class (actually a proxy for a native type) and 
would like to use this just like a normal list. This is mostly working 
just fine by defining __getitem__ et.al., but I cannot use the type as 
the RHS of an assigment to a list slice.

I traced this to the implementation of this feature in type 'list': It 
requires that the new version of the slice is also a 'list':

	l = [ 1, 2, 3, 4]
	l[1:3] = range(10)	# works fine
	l[1:3] = xrange(10) # raises TypeError

Why must the RHS side of 'l[1:3] = expr()' be an instance of 'list'?

Ronald




From hat at se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl  Thu Nov 28 09:51:09 2002
From: hat at se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl (Albert Hofkamp)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:51:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Not finding user-installed module despite PYTHONPATH!
Message-ID: <slrnaucbep.4v9.hat@se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl>

Hello all,

I want to run an interactive Python module through ssh. The basic solution is
something like

ssh -x remote_machine 'python -c "import mymodule ; mymodule.run()"'

I start this command through the popen2 module so I can communicate with
the module in another Python script.

Obviously, 'import' looks for mymodule in the python module searchpaths.
Since mymodule is not (yet :-) ) part of the python standard distribution,
I did a user-install (the home scheme of distutils) of the module at
$HOME/python.
I added the searchpath to the module into PYTHONPATH in my shell rc file
(export PYTHONPATH=$HOME/python/lib/python:.).
(both .bashrc and .zshrc (as well as the login scripts (.bash_profile,
.zlogin) to be on the safe side))

At my Linux (RH7.2) system, this approach works with bash.
It does _NOT_ work with zsh.

Note that interactively starting python and loading the mymodule works in
both shells (i.e. at that point in time, PYTHONPATH is correct).

Apparently, different shells perform different actions during startup, and
there is no guarantee that PYTHONPATH is set before the ssh command is run.

My question(s) is(are)
a) Did I miss something (in particular, w.r.t. ssh, the login process, or
   the shells)?

If not, the conclusion seems to be that environment variables cannot be relied
upon.

b) In that case, can I convince Python in another way to include a path in
   the module search without rebuilding Python itself?
c) If not, should Python not have another standard way for configuring?
   (The immediate thing that comes to mind is to have a .pythonrc file
   containing a Python script that is run upon startup of Python.)

Albert
-- 
Unlike popular belief, the .doc format is not an open publically available format.


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Nov  1 05:54:24 2002
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:54:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: relational tools?
References: <mailman.1036095994.24750.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aptmh0$6nq$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Jeff Sacksteder <jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com> writes:

>I'm looking for information regarding performing relational operations on
>python native datatypes. 

>As an example, consider the following: I read comma-delimited file into a
>list then I read the result of an ODBC sql query into another list. I want
>to then be able to use SQL or a close approximation of it to do select and
>join queries using the two lists as relational tables.

Remember SQL is not the essence of relational databases.  If your DB is small
enough to fit in memory you can use the relational alegbra directly (it's
mostly simple set theory).  A quick google search on 'python relational
alegbra' found these two interesting articles:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/159974
http://starship.python.net/crew/aaron_watters/kjbuckets/announce

There may be more.  Searching on 'python relational calculus' may also uncover
something.

Eddie


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 18 18:30:02 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:30:02 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <yu99isyujyrc.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <wgeC9.17350$0U1.1713575@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3DD977FA.993C7B75@alcyone.com>

Richard Dillingham wrote:

> > Instead, (a, b) >= (c, d) is defined as (a>c or (a==c and b>=d)).
> 
> I just keep reading that again and again and thinking "WTF? Why?
> Wha...."

When written out like that it looks scary, but in fact it's quite
straightforward (and is an obvious definition).  Anyone familiar with
mathematics knows that defining order relations on aggregate objects
like vectors or even complex numbers is problematic.  So if you need an
ordering, it makes sense to compare the first elements, then if those
match, look to the second, and if those match, look to the third, etc.
stopping when you run out of one or the other or you find an element
pair that doesn't match.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Who's not sat tense before his own heart's curtain?
\__/ Rainer Maria Rilke
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From dwelch91 at nospam.attbi.com  Sat Nov 23 11:35:42 2002
From: dwelch91 at nospam.attbi.com (djw)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:35:42 GMT
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DDFAE5F.7090700@nospam.attbi.com>

smartcardware.com wrote:
> Greetings!  I am the lead developer in a upcoming game company that
> will start work on a new game at the beginning of 2003.  We are (like
> everyone else in the gaming industry right now) searching for a
> scripting language to use in our game.  I've heard that Python is a
> great scripting language with one downfall for game
> designers/programmers.  That is that you must embed your code into
> Python, instead of convensional scripting langauges where you embed
> the scripting language into your code.  Basically we want to use
> scripting languages for AI, game items stats, player stats, and a few
> other things.  We'll use an advanced 3d engine (C++) for the rest.
>    What we don't want to have to develope our code around Python,
> rather develope our code and embed Python to fit our code when and
> where we desire.
> 
> Any and all imput would be great!  Thanks!
> 
> Venn Syii

To start, look here:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/embedding.html
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/embed.html
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=3641

/d/




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Sun Nov 10 07:33:58 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:33:58 +0000
Subject: RE - non-greedy - some greediness - complete greediness
References: <mailman.1036918692.17309.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hekssuk2785ussgpr9nahbul0u22n1c6ln@4ax.com>

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:57:28 +0100 (MET), Doru-Catalin Togea
<doru-cat at ifi.uio.no> wrote:

>Hi!
>
>I am working on a little project where i need REs with a self-defined
>level of greediness.
>
>I am processing text in a Latex like manner, for those of you who are
>familiar with it.
>
>I want to be able to recognize Latex-like commands within my text. A
>command starts with a character, say '\' followed by the command's name
>and followed by the text on which the command applies enclosed in curly
>brackets. Examples:
>
>	\footnote{some text}
>	\cite{some referance}
>	\section{some title}
>
>Recognizing such patterns and retriving the name of the command and the
>text on which the command applies is not so difficult to achieve. Things
>get complicated though when one encounters nested commands.
>
>Say I have the following string:
>
> "abcd \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl} mnop \footnote{hello there}"
>                                  ^     ^                           ^
> closing bracket of nested \cite  |     |                           |
>    closing bracket of first \footnote  |                           |
>                               closing bracket of second \footnote  |
>
>By using non-greedy REs, I would get recognized the following footnotes:
>	1) \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1}
>	2) \footnote{hello there}
>
>The first matching is wrong because the first '}' encountered belongs to
>the nested \cite command. The second matching is correct.
>
>By using greedy REs, I would get recognized the following pattern:
>	1) \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl} mnop \footnote{hello there}
>
>This is wrong because a) there are two \footnote commands in my string, so
>I should get two matchings, and b) the first \footnote command should be
>applied only to the "efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl" substring.
>
>In other words I need to be able to specify the level of greediness my REs
>should have. Is it possible? If yes, how?
>
>I have an idea of how to solve my problem without REs, by counting the
>opening and closing curly brackets and reasoning algorithmically about
>where within my text each nested command begins and ends. The question is
>can the above stated problem be solved elegantly by means of REs?
>
>With best regards,
>Catalin
>
>
>	<<<< ================================== >>>>
>	<<     We are what we repeatedly do.      >>
>	<<  Excellence, therefore, is not an act  >>
>	<<             but a habit.               >>
>	<<<< ================================== >>>>
>

Quoting from the online chapter of Freidel's mastering regular
expressions:

"In fact, the problem is that you simply can't match arbitrarily nested
constructs with regular expressions. It just can't be done."

HTH,
G. Rodrigues


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Nov 15 15:18:25 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:18:25 -0600
Subject: Permutations algoritm?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E0A656@mail.hebmex.com>

Does anybody have a clear, simple, permutations algorithm
in Python?

Thanks!

-gus



From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Wed Nov 20 22:58:10 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:58:10 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBB8BD.6020806@web.de> <h3intucpgk2dg6vhul96pg5epcfva8o8ll@4ax.com> <3DDBE406.6030803@nyc.rr.com> <ihgotusk6ua2itq5nmob1k6enrkhrao42a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3DDC5A2D.1050607@nyc.rr.com>


Courageous wrote:
>>But when I look at why Java and Perl and Python and Ruby are so 
>>well-received, I get the feeling evolution is headed for where CL 
>>already is. Time will tell.
> 
> 
> Even if Python and Ruby have or will have the _capabilities_ that
> Lisp has, (Python (will (never (be (lisp))))).

Hey, if some other language picks up everything I like about CL, who 
cares if CL dies? Besides CL vendors, that is. This would be like DOS 
defeating the GUI-based Mac. With a GUI.

mind you, at the big (!) Lisp conference in Frisco last month a talk was 
given on something called LispInJ. These folks delivered Java consulting 
work in Java (duh) having written Lisp which then thru the miracle of 
macros could exhale Java. Nicely, formatted of course, because all the 
client saw was the Java. (watch :out-for 'LispInPy)?

:)

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 12:46:11 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 10:46:11 -0700
Subject: power TypeErrors
References: <mailman.1036639269.847.python-list@python.org> <7h3ptthzlf0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <aqe8t4$ffa$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Michael Hudson wrote:

> For all my mathematical leanings, I still don't really see the point
> of having complex numbers native to a language.

Well, other than the fact that not having them is pretty much a slap in the 
face of everybody who does scientific computing, I guess it doesn't matter. 
The fact that C lacks native complex numbers is one of the reasons many hard 
core numerical computing people still frown upon it (not the only one).

The most trivial numerical problem with _real_ numbers can generate complex 
numbers in its solution (think any random polynomial root finding problem, or 
just about any eigenvalue problem you can write). Therefore we *NEEED* good 
complex number support in any language that is going to be taken seriously 
for scientific computing. I'm not sure what your background is, but I can 
tell you that python is gaining _very_ stronng support in scientific 
computing.

Cheers,

f.


From jolsen at mailme.dk  Wed Nov  6 07:30:08 2002
From: jolsen at mailme.dk (Jesper Olsen)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 04:30:08 -0800
Subject: How to use zipfile
References: <3dc8c6b3$1@shknews01>
Message-ID: <cf0ad9fb.0211060430.5e770d9@posting.google.com>

"Jack Lau" <jack98lau at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3dc8c6b3$1 at shknews01>...
> Hello,
> 
> I am a beginner to learn python. Could anyone tell me how to use zipfile. I
> want to zip a file like "a.txt" and zipped it into "abc.zip". Then how can I
> do ?
> 
> Thanks in advance!

Like this:

import zipfile
zf=zipfile.ZipFile("abc.zip", "w", zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED)
zf.write("a.txt", "a.txt")


Cheers
Jesper


From leazen at uol.com.ar  Tue Nov  5 10:03:30 2002
From: leazen at uol.com.ar (Leazen)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 12:03:30 -0300
Subject: How does Python handle probing to see if a file already exists?
References: <pan.2002.11.05.10.28.55.506357@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3DC7DDC2.6070306@uol.com.ar>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

The other answers are probably better but if you like the C way you can use:

access(path, mode)
Check read/write/execute permissions for this process or existence of
file path. mode should be F_OK to test the existence of path, or it can
be the inclusive OR of one or more of R_OK, W_OK, and X_OK to test
permissions. Return 1 if access is allowed, 0 if not. See the Unix man
page access(2) for more information. Availability: Unix, Windows.

F_OK
Value to pass as the mode parameter of access() to test the existence of
path.

Just like you could in C.

Leazen



Christopher R. Culver wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I've just begun learning Python after already getting pretty proficient in
> C. However, I'm having a problem with a simple copying program. Ideally,
> the program would check to see if the destination already exists and
> prompt the user. In this this would be as easy as saying:
>
> probe_destination = fopen(/usr/bin/foo, 'r')
> if (probe_destination)
> {
> some code here;
> }
>
> However, translating that directly into Python doesn't work because if
> Python can't find a file to open, it doesn't just return 0, it gives an
> error and exits. How can I write this functionality in Python so that it
> returns 0 and continues, or does Python have a totally different way of
> handling this problem than C?
>
> Christopher Culver
>
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Sat Nov 16 03:43:10 2002
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 00:43:10 -0800
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A747@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com> <mailman.1037378066.14252.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7876a8ea.0211160043.3036f0a6@posting.google.com>

> And again, problem with the programmer.  Since when does 
> python withold a useful tool just because it's sometimes 
> abused?

  Approximately since it withheld pointers?  Macros? 
Assignment-as-an-expression?  Since the very inception of the
language?

  There's actually a version of Python with no useful feature
withheld--it's called "see plus plus".


From itamar at itamarst.org  Mon Nov 25 12:44:29 2002
From: itamar at itamarst.org (Itamar Shtull-Trauring)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:44:29 -0500
Subject: ANN: Twisted 1.0.1, the Framework of Your Internet
Message-ID: <20021125124429.610f0f9d.itamar@itamarst.org>

Twisted is an event-driven networking framework for server and client
applications.

For more information, visit http://www.twistedmatrix.com, join the list
http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python or
visit us on #twisted at irc.freenode.net (also known as
irc.openprojects.net).


What's New in 1.0.1
===================

 - Lore, a documentation generation framework supporting HTML and LaTeX
 - Initial SOAP support
 - Rewritten UDP API
 - Multicast support
 - Better Tk integration
 - Rewritten DNS protocol, both client and server
 - Virtual hosting utilities for twisted.web
 - Large amounts of work on Woven web templating system
 - Syslog logging
 - GUI equivalents of the command-line mktap and twistd programs
 - Much improved and expanded documentation
 - Many bugfixes


What is Twisted?
================

Twisted is an event-driven framework for building networked clients and
servers.  It contains a powerful and simple networking core, a
full-featured suite of interoperable protocols, among them a powerful
web server and applications framework.

Twisted supports many event loops for both server apps and GUI
integration on the client side, including:

 - select()
 - poll()
 - kqueue on FreeBSD
 - Win32 events, including GUI support
 - GTK+
 - Qt
 - wxPython
 - Tkinter
 - Java

Twisted can run protocols over TCP, SSL, Unix sockets and subprocesses.
It also includes scheduling support, threading integration, RDBMS event
loop integration and other basic requirements for networked
applications.

Also included are implementations of many protocols. In some cases this
includes complete frameworks providing facilities on top of the base
protocol:

 - SSH
 - FTP
 - HTTP, including a complete web framework
 - XML-RPC server framework
 - SOAP server framework
 - NNTP and complete NNTP server framework
 - SOCKSv4 (server only)
 - SMTP
 - IRC
 - telnet
 - POP3
 - AOL's instant messaging TOC
 - OSCAR, used by AOL-IM as well as ICQ (client only)
 - DNS
 - MouseMan serial mice
 - Twisted Perspective Broker, a remote object protocol



From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Fri Nov 15 04:12:15 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 09:12:15 GMT
Subject: displaying windows processes
References: <mailman.1037343324.8398.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnat9ejg.277.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

asdfasd asdfasdf wrote:
> hi

Hi asdfasd asdfasdf,

> how do i display a list of windows 2000 running processes??
> something like the ps in unix?

You'll need the win32 extensions for this. How to get the process list
is documented here:

http://aspn.activestate.com//ASPN/Python/Reference/Products/ActivePython/PythonWin32Extensions/win32/process_info.html#PdhEnumObjectItems

short version of the URL: http://tinyurl.com/2pxu

Btw. I knew it was possible, but still was using a search engine to
quickly find the link. The http://google.com keywords I used were
"python windows process list".

-- Gerhard


From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Fri Nov 15 04:41:14 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:41:14 +0100
Subject: Possible Win32 Tkinter bug?
References: <mpg1ra.2s9.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <ar2euh$lre$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>

Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> Hmmm, this is a strange one:
> 
> I have Tkinter program which works pretty much as I want. Among the
> things it does at startup time is to first establish the main UI and
> then optionally use a tkMessageBox.showwarning() to let the user know if
> there is a problem with the contents of a config file. After the user
> presses OK, the warning disappears and only the main UI window is
> left.
> 
> Under X, this works just fine. Under Win32 the program works fine if no
> warning message box every appears. However, if a warning is displayed,
> the main UI never gets focus back after the user presses OK on the
> message box. I have to select on a completely separate Win32 window or
> the Desktop and then back to the main UI before I get focus back
> to the widget in the Tk application again.
> 
> If I had this problem in both environments I would rapidly assume it
> is my poor understanding of Tkinter that is the problem.  However,
> since it works fine in one environment and not the other, it would
> suggest several possibilities:
> 
> 1) A Tkinter/Python problem on Win32 (python 2.2.2 on Win2K SP3)
> 2) Strange Win32 semantics which I am not accommodating
> 3) Stupid coding on my part only revealed on Win32...
> 
> Has anyone seen this before?

Windows has a quite different idea on which window should get the focus 
than any other window manager on other platforms. We often encountered such 
strange behaviours.

Did you try to explicitely do a tkraise and/or focus_set on the main window 
after your message box has been shown? It may help. I also once saw that 
calling successively withdraw(), then deiconify() on the main window can 
solve such problems.

In other words: you're on Windows, so the standard way to do things is to 
hack until you get the behaviour you want... ;-)

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Thu Nov 21 02:03:03 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:03:03 +1100
Subject: DNS server in python
In-Reply-To: <200211210115.gAL1Fc602440@localhost.localdomain>
References: <200211210115.gAL1Fc602440@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200211211803.03913.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:15, Anthony Baxter wrote:
> > However while this is being sorted out, I'd like a portable, scripted
> > version Python seems right :)
> >
> > So I'm looking for a DNS server in python, if it is already written. I've
> > done some searching on freshmeat.net and sourceforge, and also a bit of
> > Googling, but the only thing that looked like it might be of use was
> > dynDNS, http://freshmeat.net/projects/dyndns/?topic_id=250
> > However the link is broken. Grrr.
>
> Have a look at pydns.sf.net - there's most of the guts needed to
> do a DNS server. (I've built a couple of little toy ones for tiny
> applications using it).
Toy is the sort of area that I'm after. Any chance that you can share the 
code? Off-list is probably best...

> I've also been interested in the zeroconf stuff, and confirmed that
> I can handle the multicast DNS stuff (I've done multicast stuff in
> the past in python - I did a simple SDR-type client years ago).
Interested in working on it, even if only in a code-review sense?

Brad

- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From shti at attbi.com  Fri Nov 15 15:04:37 2002
From: shti at attbi.com (Yuri Shtil)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:04:37 GMT
Subject: pdb misbehaves in emacs-21.2.1
Message-ID: <3DD5528C.5090608@attbi.com>

Hi

I have installed RH 8.0 and got emacs-21.2.1 with it.

I noticed that pdb (python debugging package) no longer tracks the 
source code. It displays line numbers in the debugger window instead.

It works well with emacs-21.1.1. When I moved the file gud.el to the new 
emacs and byte-recompiled it, the correct behavour appeared.

I concluded that the changes to the gud.el introduced in 21-2.1 broke 
the pdb (or maybe some other supported debuggers).

Any clues anyone ?

	Yuri.



From claird at lairds.com  Mon Nov  4 16:35:57 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:35:57 -0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
Message-ID: <usdq1tapaekk87@corp.supernews.com>

In article <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan at esperanto.org>,
Daniel Pfeiffer  <occitan at esperanto.org> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>this morning it struck me that it would be nice to have Parrot not only
>run Perl 6 and similar byte code, but that any of the common interpreted
>languages be compiled to this same byte code.
>
>Then no matter whether running a Perl 6, Python, Ruby, Tcl maybe even
>bash script the same interpreter library would be used.  Then likely it
>would already be in memory speeding up start time.
>
>And this would also ease cross language module/library inclusion. 
>Imagine instantiating some Python class from Perl!
>
>Apache would essentially have a mod_parrot.  Maybe, if this can be
>tested very hard, we'd even have a Parrot kernel module for all Unices
>supporting that.  Then exec() could perform compiled scripts right away,
>like machine code :-)
			.
			.
			.
This thought inspired enthusiasm in others long ago--from
before it was named "Parrot", at least.

Availability of all the pieces your vision requires is at
least several years away, barring miracles.  I don't par-
ticularly expect it to happen.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From pieroul at attglobal.net  Sat Nov 30 22:16:22 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:16:22 -0500
Subject: Python exceptions: is there a way to find theexceptionattributes?
References: <3DE8F629.4080108@attglobal.net>	<mailman.1038697122.20039.python-list@python.org>	<3DE94C75.7060406@attglobal.net> <mailman.1038706022.4020.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE97F06.1030909@attglobal.net>


John Hunter wrote:
>>>>>>"Pierre" == Pierre Rouleau <pieroul at attglobal.net> writes:
>>>>>
> 
> 
>     Pierre> I was looking for a quick way to look at exception
>     Pierre> attributes from within my programming environment when i
>     Pierre> have to decide what exception i should catch or which one
>     Pierre> i should raise and then what information i should pass
>     Pierre> inside the exception object.
> 
> Within recent interactive python shells (which include pydoc.help by
> default), you can do, for example:
> 
>   help(Exception)
>   help(StandardError)
>   help(IOError)
>   help(StandardError)
>   help(AttributeError)
>   help(KeyError)
> 
> With some shells (eg, ipython) you can drop the parentheses.  Is this
> what you are looking for?
> 
>
Not really.  I would like to be able to know what my code can retreive 
from a given exception object (its attributes) without having to look 
into the code.  Exceptions are different than other objects in the sense 
that I can't simply create one and list its attributes.

For example, on Python 2.2, if you run help(IOError) you get:


Help on class IOError in module exceptions:

class IOError(EnvironmentError)
  |  I/O operation failed.
  |
  |  Method resolution order:
  |      IOError
  |      EnvironmentError
  |      StandardError
  |      Exception
  |
  |  Data and non-method functions defined here:
  |
  |  __doc__ = 'I/O operation failed.'
  |
  |  __module__ = 'exceptions'
  |
  |  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  |  Methods inherited from EnvironmentError:
  |
  |  __init__(...)
  |
  |  __str__(...)
  |
  |  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  |  Methods inherited from Exception:
  |
  |  __getitem__(...)


There is nothing in that information to tell anyone that IOError 
exceptions have 3 attributes: errno, filename and strerror.

In my question, I show a way to find out the list of attributes.  The 
code is generating the exception, cathing the exception object and use 
dir() on the exception object instance to list its attributes.  By 
visual inspection it becomes easy to find their names:

 >>> try:
...   f=open("/invalid/invalid.oops")
... except IOError, e:
...    print dir(e)
...
['__doc__', '__getitem__', '__init__', '__module__', '__str__', 'args', 
'errno', 'filename', 'strerror']
 >>>

But lets assume i did not know how to generate an IOError exception.  I 
would have to look into the documentation to find out what it is (or its 
source code if it is available).  If it is a builtin exception I would 
have to find out how to generate the exception before I could write a 
small code snippet (like the one above) to be able to get one object for 
the type of exception I am interested in.

I am just trying to find out if there is a faster way than that.  A 
method that does not involve all of this cogitation.  This way, if one 
day, with a new release of Python i want to quickly know what are the 
attributes to this new exception, I would quickly find out.


-- 
         Pierre Rouleau



From andrew.gregory at npl.co.uk  Mon Nov 11 10:37:05 2002
From: andrew.gregory at npl.co.uk (Andrew Gregory)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 07:37:05 -0800
Subject: SWIG /Python problem
References: <2830c89c.0211070752.3e37ca43@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2830c89c.0211110737.75ab7d62@posting.google.com>

In case anyone's interested one solution is to rename the compiled
.pyd file with a preceding underscore (i.e. for SWIG 1.3.11 use
filename pysimple.pyd, for SWIG 1.3.16 use _pysimple.pyd). For 1.3.16
the correct .def file is

LIBRARY PYSIMPLE
EXPORTS
  init_pysimple = _init_pysimple
DESCRIPTION 'Simple Python DLL'
EXETYPE WINDOWS
CODE MOVEABLE
DATA MOVEABLE MULTIPLE
HEAPSIZE 1024

Alteratively the wrapper file can be edited.

For this test the C header file pysimple.h is

extern int mysquare(int i)
{
  return i*i;
};

and the interface file pysimple.i is
%module pysimple
%{
   #include "pysimple.h"
%}
 
%include pysimple.h


Does anyone know why 1.3.16 adds a preceding underscore to SWIG_name,
or (better) if there is a directive for setting SWIG_name from inside
the interface file?


Andrew.


From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 22:51:58 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:51:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Questions about tuple?
Message-ID: <20021109035158.61239.qmail@web21201.mail.yahoo.com>

> > >Hey, given a tuple t(a,b), is there any function
> in
> > >Python that I can get a, b individually from t?
> > >Actually, I have a list whose element is tuples.
> > Say:
> > >
> > >tuple_list = [(1,'a'),(3,'b'),(2,'l'),(8,'p')]
> > >
> > >Then I want to get two lists from this
> tuple_list.
> > The
> > >first list contains the first elements in the
> tuple
> > of
> > >the tuple_list. 
> > >
> > >first_list = [1,3,2,8]
> > >
> > >And the second list contains all the second
> > elements,
> > >also maintaining the original order as in
> > tuple_list.
> > >
> > >second_list = ['a','b','l','p']
> > >
> > >So how to get this easily? Thanks!
> > >
> > This sounds like homework. Is it?
> 
> Well, you can call it homework as it's a tiny thing
> of
> my project. In ML, it's easy to do this using #, and
> I
> just wonder how to do this in Python. I'm just a
> newbie in Python and don't know the many things it
> can
> do. I can do this in a clumsy way but I think I
> might
> don't know some functions in Python which can do
> this
> in a simple but neat way.
> 
> Thanks for any hints.
> 
> 
> =====
> Cheers
> -Mindy
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
> http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
> 


=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2



From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Fri Nov 29 13:26:56 2002
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:26:56 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
References: <3DE4448E.5080201@attglobal.net> <pan.2002.11.27.20.00.00.396116@NOSPAM.optushome.com.au> <f199e60.0211290156.729446bc@posting.google.com> <3b091a1c.0211290900.61d974e3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <as8bh2$26v$06$1@news.t-online.com>

cmkl wrote:
 > [snip]
> 
> 
> It seems to be rather difficult to get a standard answer to 
> the question:
> 
> "how to develop highly responsive interactive web applications"

The reason might be that there is no general idea what a web application 
might be (that's the problem with buzz loaded terms).
For the sake of discussing the thing, a web based application are a 
bunch of html pages (dynamically generated) that have some user session 
attached to it.

[very big snip]

> 
> I am interested in a discussion of usuable and reliable 
> frameworks for this problem (beside Struts and Java applets)

The problem I see so far with web based applications is the complete 
different API, a programmer has to use, compared to classical GUI APIs.
I'd like to see the following features by some probably-to-be-written 
Web development environment:
The application can be written in a user centric way. That means, there 
is no need to load sessions, have a look into GET/POST responses, etc.
All of this is hidden by the framework.
The application would look like similar to a tkinter/wxPython 
application. The framework had to do all the magic required to render 
the widgets in html, analysing the responses, basicly, running the state 
machine.
It should be even possible to decide later on, to which extend parts are 
running on the server or the client.

just my two cents

stephan

> 
> Carl



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Nov 17 18:56:25 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:56:25 +1100
Subject: quick question
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A74F@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: bwfc10 at aol.com [mailto:bwfc10 at aol.com]
> 
> fair enough, no i'm just practicing 
> a program to esnure that i can do python
> for when i do get homework.

In that case, the best things you can do are:

1. Work through the python tutorial.

2. Get some code that someone else has written, and work through it,
learning what it does, why it does it, and how it does it.

3. Improve someone else's code (see #2).

Tim Delaney



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Nov 13 18:43:13 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:43:13 -0500
Subject: Presenting Data neatly... how :)
References: <3dd2dd57$0$28316$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DD2E391.1090002@rogers.com>

See documentation for the string methods ljust, rjust and center, decide 
on a column width, then print the padded strings with a single space 
separating them.

 >>> "20%".rjust(20)
'                 20%'

HTH,
Mike

e-tones.co.uk wrote:
...

>Is there anyway to format it like this:
>
>Dell            45       40%
>Microsoft   60       56%
>IBM             4      5%
>
>
>?
>
>Help
>Taz
>  
>
 
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Nov 21 01:56:31 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:56:31 -0500
Subject: Does Python (or psyco) already do this optimisation?
Message-ID: <3DDC839F.4060300@rogers.com>

General idea:
    Have namespaces provide pointer-addresses in which the current 
PyObject * of a given name is stored.  Provide hooks on namespaces which 
catch set/del of names to update cached values.  Have compiled methods 
store an index into the local namespace's array of pointer-addresses in 
which to look for a name (going up the lexical namespace chain) rather 
than using hashtable lookups.

Simplistic approach:

    * For each namespace:
          o table [N*M pointer-to-pointers] (N=number of names,
            M=lexical depth, stores local-namespace pointer-location and
            all parent-namespace's pointer-locations (yes, that's
            inefficient when it could just point to the parent's
            pointer-to-pointer location, but that seems a little
            convoluted))
          o Hash-map { name: tableOffset }  (tableOffset being index
            into table, all items added to the hash must be present in
            the table)
          o Parent-namespace-pointer (for use during standard
            name-resolution passes)
    * For each name in a code object, store the tableOffset for the name
      into the namespace's table for that name. Note that you must
      ensure the name exists in all parent tables as well
    * To resolve, each compiled method checks each namespace's pointer
      in turn.  If the pointer is NULL, it tries the next namespace in
      the chain.  If none of the pointers is non-NULL, do a full
      namespace lookup and cache the result in the appropriate
      namespace-pointer (or raise a NameError on failing).  If a pointer
      is non-NULL, go ahead and use it.
    * Assign to a variable:
          o update address in pointer-to-pointer for the local
            namespace's record to point to the new object.
          o do reference-count handling
    * Delete a variable:
          o update address in pointer-to-pointer to be NULL (this may
            result in there being no non-NULL entries in the tables (a
            NameError if anything tries to access the name from those
            namespaces))
          o do reference-count handling

Imagined impact:

    * namespace memory overhead is increased (considerably), you wind up
      with caches similar to the local-namespace one for all levels with
      entries for all names in all namespaces at the highest level.
    * external accesses still need hashtable lookup and
      new-name-assignment available, so you can't do away with it. You
      must cache each resolved name in each lexical namespace, so figure
      (numberOfNames*lexical-depth) pointers, plus the hashed-string to
      pointer-to-pointer table.
    * function compilation overhead is increased as you wind up with
      N(names) * M(namespaces) required lookups for _every_ name in the
      namespace.  This should be a (largely) static single-time charge.
    * name lookup should be faster, as a simple array of known length
      (lexical depth) is being searched for the first non-NULL entry.
    * assignment and deletion in namespaces will be slower
          o assignment to previously unknown values needs to extend the
            size of the table for the given namespace and all parent
            namespace's tables where the name doesn't already exist
    * you cannot delete name-entries from a namespace table once created
      (since there may be large numbers of other namespaces which use
      the pointers defined by that namespace).  You could probably
      create a simple scan to get rid of this limitation (or just use
      reference-counting), but I doubt the benefits would be worth the
      cost, save in rare corner cases.
          o (rare-corner-case-description) would be a potential
            bottleneck in cases where exec/eval is used a lot in a
            particular namespace (as it might, for instance, have
            thousands (or millions) of variables created in the exec'd
            namespaces, with NULL entries in the parent namespace not
            getting cleaned up between iterations.)

Anyway, would be interested to know if someone C-knowledgable has done 
this already and 1) integrated it into Python or psyco already, or 2) 
decided it just isn't a feasible approach?
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From jbarham at jbarham.com  Thu Nov  7 18:02:05 2002
From: jbarham at jbarham.com (John E. Barham)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 23:02:05 GMT
Subject: Module names beginning w/ a digit
Message-ID: <NhCy9.700852$Ag2.26441101@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>

Why can't Python module names start a digit?

e.g.:

> touch 9P.py
> python
Python 2.2.1 (#1, Aug 10 2002, 15:08:14)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release) [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import 9P
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    import 9P
           ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax




From djc at object-craft.com.au  Thu Nov  7 22:50:30 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 14:50:30 +1100
Subject: csv module 1.0pre1 released (again)
Message-ID: <m3isz8ra7t.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

Rather than keep you guessing...  This announcement includes some
URLs.

WHAT IS IT:

The CSV module provides a fast CSV parser which can split and join CSV
records which have been produced by Microsoft products such as Access
and Excel.

The module is available here:

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/download/csv-1.0pre1.tar.gz

The module home page is here:

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/

NOTES:

The most important change for this release is that the basic quote
handling has been modified to exactly match the observed behaviour of
Excel.  A comprehensive test suite has been added to test this
observed behaviour.  If the module does not conform to Excel behaviour
we consider this to be a bug.

The pre designation on the release is due to the slight change in
quote handling.

CHANGES SINCE 0.5:

* Moved to standard BSD template license.

* Now using distutils to create source distribution.

* Parser's handling of unusual quoting styles was found to be at odds
  with Excel. In particular, Excel only treats the quote character as
  special if it appears as the first character in a field, whereas our
  parser honoured them anywhere. We now produce the same result as Excel -
  quotes within a field appear in the output.

* Introduced Parser.quote_char attribute to replace the hard coded "
  (double quote).  You can now disable quoting by setting quote_char
  to 0 or None.

* Introduced Parser.escape_char attribute which is used to escape
  special characters when quote_char is specified is disabled.

* Introduced Parser.strict attribute which controls whether the parser
  will raise an exception on malformed fields rather than attempting
  to guess the right behaviour.

* Introduced a suite of unit tests.

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au




From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Sat Nov  9 10:12:20 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 16:12:20 +0100
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDA9B@intrepid> <mailman.1036425694.8880.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u1y5ubwvf.fsf@online.no>

Sean 'Shaleh' Perry <shalehperry at attbi.com> writes:
 
> I understand bicyclerepairman to be a good emacs package for Python 
> refactoring.

What, where?! I've been using practices from Extreme Programming
longer than I've been programming Python, but that the Bicycle
Repairman project was in a usable state was unknown to me.

(Googling and installing bicyclerepairman 0.7 RC1)...............

This is way cool, a python refactoring browser (that also works from
Emacs, one of my favorite tools). I've been using the Camp Smalltalk
Refactoring browser when writing Smalltalk, great to have one in
Python.

A request: Could the Bicycle Repairman team post to
comp.lang.python.announce when new updates are coming. I usually use
comp.lang.python.announce to stay current on useful/interesting python
modules and tools so this would be nice.


-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 19 23:05:57 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:05:57 -0800
Subject: Telnetlib help.  I need a case function.
References: <1d4aad28.0211191310.6300984a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6n1fra.or3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

higgeldy Piggeldy fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 19 November 
2002 01:10 pm:

        Hopefully I don't raise your ire... Especially since most of my 
comments aren't directly focused on your one question... I'm having a 
hard time reading this densely written sequence.
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> import telnetlib
> import sys
> import string
> import re
> import regsub
> import regex
> import smtplib
> succeed = re.compile("( *Successful renewal for title '.*'\.)")
> maynot = re.compile("( *You may not renew '.*\.)")
> noneleft = re.compile(" *No items were renewed .*")
> due = re.compile ("( *Due Date = \d\d \w\w\w \d\d\d\d)")
> tn = telnetlib.Telnet("dyna.multnomah.lib.or.us")
> tn.read_until("login: ")
> print "logging in!\n"
> tn.write("fastcat\n")
> tn.read_until(">>")
> tn.write("\n")
> #tn.read_until("<<VT100>> ")
> tn.write("\n")
> tn.read_until("N")
> tn.write("\n")
> tn.read_until("DYNA -")
> tn.write("\n")
> tn.read_until("<Enter> :")

        I know Python doesn't care, but for /my/ reading, this function def 
would have occurred between the "import" and the "succeed..." lines -- 
I'm not used to reading function definitions in the middle of the 
"main" program code <G>

> def renew(thiscard,thispin,thisemail):
>         fileout = open ('temp.txt','w')
>         tn.write("17\n")
>         tn.read_until("barcode")
>         tn.write(thiscard+"\n")
>         print "\n\nrenewing ",
>         print "for ",thisemail
>         tn.read_until("PHONE")
>         tn.write(thispin+"\n")
>         tn.read_until("below")

        *****   Occurence 1

>         tn.write("1\n")
>         i=1

        Uhm... this assignment is futile, it is immediately overridden by the 
for loop.

>         for i in range(24):
>                 tmp = open('dyna.tmp','w')
>                 i=i+1

        And this seems rather silly too... the range() function has optional 
parameters...

>>> print range.__doc__
range([start,] stop[, step]) -> list of integers

Return a list containing an arithmetic progression of integers.
range(i, j) returns [i, i+1, i+2, ..., j-1]; start (!) defaults to 0.
When step is given, it specifies the increment (or decrement).
For example, range(4) returns [0, 1, 2, 3].  The end point is omitted!
These are exactly the valid indices for a list of 4 elements.

        Why not just use "range(1,25)"

>                 tn.read_until("below")

        *****   Occurence 2

        A literal reading of the above indicates that your read until "below", 
and then immediately /repeat/ a read until "below". Removing all the 
extraneous statements you have:

        read_until("below")
        for i in ....:
                read_until("below")

won't this result in missing the first block of data? (Maybe that's why 
your have all those strange things with the i+1 stuff...)


>                 tn.write("r\n")
>                 (tn.read_until('renew'))
>                 tn.write(`i` + "\n")
>                 tmp.write (tn.read_until("Enter"))
>                 tn.write("\n")
>                 tmp.close()

        Okay, you opened a file, wrote what I presume is everything between 
"renew" and "Enter"

>                 file = open('dyna.tmp','r')

        Now you reopen the same file (using a different variable -- and "file" 
could be a dangerous name for this <G>

>                 while 1:
>                         line = file.readline()
>                         if not line: break

        And read the lines back in... The whole tmp file could probably be 
replaced with

                tmpdata = tn.read_until("Enter"))
                for line in string.split(tmpdata, "\n"):
>                         successobj = succeed.search(line)
>                         maynotobj = maynot.search(line)
>                         dueobj = due.search(line)
>                         if successobj:
>                                 fileout.write
> (repr(successobj.groups())+"\n")
>                         if maynotobj:
>                                 fileout.write
> ("ATTENTION"+"\n"+repr(maynotobj.groups())+"\nATTENTION\n")
>                         if dueobj:
>                                 fileout.write
> (repr(dueobj.groups())+"\n")
>                 file.close()
>                 # tn.read_until("below")
>         tn.write("so\n")
>         fileout.close()
>         filein = open ("temp.txt","r")
>         fileout = open ("temp2.txt","w")
>         msg = "Subject:Automatic Library Renewal Notice
> For:"+thisuser+".\r\n\r\nThank You for using my service.\nPlease feel
> free to send any donations or suggestions to me at
> sweetfamily at qwest.net\n\n"

        This could be cleaned up some as well...

        msg = """\
Subject: Automatic Library Renewal Notice For: %s.

Thank you ...
Please feel ...

""" % thisuser


>         while 1:
>                 line = filein.readline()
>                 if not line: break

        Wouldn't this be cleaner as

        for line in filein.readlines():

>                 matchobj = string.replace (line,"(","")
>                 matchobj = string.replace (matchobj,")","")
>                 matchobj = string.replace (matchobj,'"','')
>                 matchobj = string.replace (matchobj,"'","")
>                 matchobj = string.replace (matchobj,",","")
>                 matchobj = string.replace (matchobj,"/","")
>                 print matchobj,
>                 msg = msg+matchobj
>                 fileout.write(matchobj)
>         filein.close()
>         fileout.close()
>         fromaddr = "From:andys at collegenet.com"
>         toaddr = "To: "
>         toaddr = toaddr + thisemail
>         print toaddr
>         sending = smtplib.SMTP('mail.collegenet.com')
>         sending.set_debuglevel(0)
>         sending.sendmail(fromaddr,toaddr,msg)
>         sending.quit()

        That's a pretty long stretch of stuff for one function.

> cardpatt = regex.compile ('^card:\(\w*\)')
> pinpatt = regex.compile ('^pin:\(\w*\)')
> emailpatt = regex.compile ("email:\(.*\)")
> userpatt = regex.compile ("user:\(.*\)")
> config = open("telnetter.cfg")
> status =0
> while 1:
>         line = config.readline()
>         if not line:break

        Another one that might be cleaner as a "for line in 
config.readlines():"

>         card = cardpatt.match(line)
>         pin = pinpatt.match(line)
>         email = emailpatt.match(line)
>         user = userpatt.match(line)
>         if card>=0:
>                 thiscard = str(cardpatt.group(1))
>                 status = status +1
>         if pin>=0:
>                 thispin = str(pinpatt.group(1))
>                 status = status +1
>         if email>=0:
>                 thisemail = str(emailpatt.group(1))
>                 status = status +1
>         if user>=0:
>                 thisuser = str(userpatt.group(1))
>                 status = status+1
>         if status == 4:
>                 status =0
>                 renew(thiscard,thispin,thisemail)

        Might just be me, but I think I'd dump that status counting thing for 
something more like:

thiscard = None
thispin = None
thisemail = None
thisuser = None
for line in config.readlines(): 
        if cardpatt.match(line) >= 0:
                thiscard = str(cardpatt.group(1))
        elif pinpatt.match(line) >= 0:
                thispin = str(pinpat.group(1))
        elif emailpatt.match(line) >= 0:
                thisemail = str(emailpatt.group(1))
        elif userpatt.match(line) >= 0:
                thisuser = str(userpatt.group(1))
        else:
                print "Invalid input line: '%s'" % line

        if thiscard and thispin and thisemail and thisuser:
                renew(thiscard, thispin, thisemail) #what happened to thisuser?
                thiscard = None
                thispin = None
                thisemail = None
                thisuser = None


> #renew("21168013143409","6422")
> #renew("21168018228841","6422")
> tn.read_until("Enter>")
> tn.write("19\n")
> tn.close()
> print "DONE!!"
> 
> 
> It trips up on the tn.read_until("below") because the server is
> sending something else since there are no books to renew.
>

        Okay, there are TWO "tn.read_until("below")", so which one of the two 
is the problem?

        Off-hand, you seem to be rigged for a fairly linear process with no 
allowance for divergence, or modularization.

        Without a captured data file logging all the input for comparison (in 
both situations, normal and empty) it is difficult to determine exactly 
what may be happening.


-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Fri Nov  1 23:03:15 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 04:03:15 GMT
Subject: map network drive
In-Reply-To: <Xns92BA171FDF95cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
References: <mfFw9.10$%f4.172@news.oracle.com> <Xns92BA171FDF95cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <78Iw9.946$5u4.3924@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Chris Liechti wrote:
> "tagarwal" <trilok.agarwal at oracle.com> wrote in 
> news:mfFw9.10$%f4.172 at news.oracle.com:
> 
> 
>>How could i map network drives using python scripts,
> 
> 
> i guess you're talking of windows. in that case you can use
> os.system or os.popen and call "net use" with appropriate args.
> it's likely that there is also a windows API call that you can use with the 
> win32all module but i don't know that.

The win32wnet and win32net modules.  win32wnet is preferred as it also 
works on Win9x.

Mark.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 24 16:02:28 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:02:28 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1038097779.22927.python-list@python.org> <yfslm3ibyb7.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <t8WdneLU3Lm8onygXTWcrg@comcast.com>

"Alexander Schmolck" <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:yfslm3ibyb7.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk...
> Similarly also can't see a good conceptual or pragmatic reason why
all lists
> shouldn't have .get, .items. etc. indeed a .get method for sequence
types
> would be often quite useful and being able to write
>
>   for i, elt in seq.items():...

In 2.3, I believe, this will be spelled seq.enumerate()

tjr




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov 12 10:00:34 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:00:34 -0500
Subject: copy.deepcopy question
References: <3DD0BFED.B59F49D9@ipm.fhg.de>
Message-ID: <yOWcnU8OsLqaikygXTWc3w@comcast.com>

"Markus von Ehr" <markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de> wrote in message
news:3DD0BFED.B59F49D9 at ipm.fhg.de...
> Hi,
>
> I have one object called Reference.
> Several Spectra objects include their own Reference object.
> To assign the Reference I want to pass the Reference object to
> several Spectra objects which have to make a copy to a member
variable.

The question is whether you really want to copy the object, so that
there are multiple objects with one reference to each, or just copy
the references so that there are multiple references to the single
object.  (Note that 'reference' here is the internal Python pointer to
objects, not to be confused with your Reference object.)

If you want each each Spectra to be able to independently modify its
own Reference, then you need copies of the object.

If Reference is only read and never changed, or if you want changes to
Reference made by one Spectra to be seen by all Spectras, then you
need only one object with multiple references.

> Every Spectra need its own copy because different Spectras may have
> different References.

I don't understand this at all.  If different Spectra have different
(in value) References, then there is no issue of copying.

> Is copy.deepcopy the right way to copy the Reference object to
> a Spectras member variable?

Possibly, but quite possibly not.  If you actually do want a copy, you
have to think about how deep the copying should go.

Terry J. Reedy




From KZEMBOWER at jhuccp.org  Wed Nov 13 11:15:51 2002
From: KZEMBOWER at jhuccp.org (KEVIN ZEMBOWER)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:15:51 -0500
Subject: Raw Newbie: What's the "<?" tag and how can I learn more about
	it?
Message-ID: <sdd23478.051@ccp2.jhuccp.org>

I'm just now beginning my learning about python, and have to modify a system written in python, the ezmlm-browse system, which allows ezmlm mailing lists to be accessed via a web interface.

I've found templates which look like this:
    <? if body is None ?>
      <hr><strong>["%(type)s" not shown]</strong>
    <? else ?>
      <hr><table width="640">
      <tr><td>%(markup_urls(html(body)))s</td></tr>
      </table>
    <? end ?>

Obviously, this is python code embedded in HTML, very similar to php in HTML, with which I am more familiar. However, I can't find any references to the "<?" tag system on the python.org web site. I also can't find any references to it in my Learning Python or Programming Python books. I suspect that this is that I just don't know the proper terms to search for. Where can I learn more about this aspect of python?

The specific problem I'm working on involves the line '<hr><table width="640">'. I'd like to change the width to "100%", but the percent sign must be interpreted as a special character. It causes strange errors. I've tried escaping it with 'width="100\%"', but this doesn't seem to work, either. Any help on this small problem?

Thanks for your suggestions and help and patience with what I suspect is a very newbie question.

-Kevin Zembower

-----
E. Kevin Zembower
Unix Administrator
Johns Hopkins University/Center for Communications Programs
111 Market Place, Suite 310
Baltimore, MD  21202
410-659-6139




From pieroul at attglobal.net  Sun Nov 17 14:45:24 2002
From: pieroul at attglobal.net (Pierre Rouleau)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:45:24 -0500
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
References: <3DD71094.2030606@attglobal.net>	<mailman.1037506706.23922.python-list@python.org>	<3DD7B7E8.2020402@attglobal.net> <mailman.1037549243.6024.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD7F1D4.4090201@attglobal.net>

> Your question really boils down to getting unique items from a list,
> stably.  You can always just concatenate your two lists and then
> unique them, so the merge question is secondary.
Yep, good way to describe it :)

> 
> Take a look at Tim Peter's recipe at
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52560.
> 
> His approach is to try alternate methods in order of decreasing
> efficiency, moving to the next if the previous fails.  I think his
> sort based approach for non-hashable elements will offer improved
> performance over your brute force approach.
Thanks! I like the approach of trying efficient algorithm first and 
making the code work its way down in efficiency while ensuring the 
function always works.  I am always amazed at how easy thing are in Python!

> 
> However, the builtin sort is not stable,
In what sense?


> so I don't think it will meet
> your criterion of deterministic output. But there is a fair amount of
> discussion on that page about the best way to get uniqueness in the
> presence of possibly unhashable elements, and various approaches for
> dealing with stability -- see Alex's comments after the recipe.
> 
The other thing about Python: what a nice community to know!


Thanks again,

Pierre



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Nov 27 10:53:37 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:53:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: if <assignment>:
In-Reply-To: <as1n60$dkg$2@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211270737440.9862-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 maney at pobox.com wrote:

> Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> > proof that the language is broken in that area. We don't say, "Is Tuesday 
> > today?" or "Is 5 your age?", either. :)
> 
> Is it Tuesday today?

Definitely not equivalent (hint: the 'today' in your version is optional).

> The other one is not the most common form, but I don't have any trouble
> at all imagining using it

Perhaps, but that's not the point - an aspect of a language that the
programmer has to think twice about, or be especially careful about, or is
encouraged to think about in an unnatural way ought to have significant
benefit to make it worthwhile. IMO the desire for if-assignment in C is 
driven in part by a desire to fit more on the screen; Python code is more 
vertically compact so I don't miss that feature as much.

In this specific case it's not too big of a deal anymore because most
compilers now will warn you - it's a band-aid instead of a solution, but
it works - but the principle is worth understanding as it helps identify
warts in C, Python, etc.

-Dave




From oliver at rutherfurd.net  Tue Nov  5 15:16:16 2002
From: oliver at rutherfurd.net (Oliver Rutherfurd)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:16:16 -0600
Subject: sre_constants.error: bogus escape
References: <3DC81B1F.C367AB25@crary.com>
Message-ID: <024901c28508$328b7cb0$181e140a@appdevlaptop001>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bradley D. Larson" <blarson at crary.com>
To: "python" <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:25 PM
Subject: sre_constants.error: bogus escape


> What is the best method of changing a \ character to something else

Try using the 'replace' method for a string:

>>> s = 'a\\b\\c'
>>> s = s.replace('\\','/')
>>> print s
a/b/c

HTH,
-Ollie



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Tue Nov 19 22:37:18 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 03:37:18 GMT
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7?
References: <mailman.1037753912.31805.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <OrDC9.1494$Kw6.890938@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Brian Quinlan" <brian at sweetapp.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037753912.31805.python-list at python.org...
> dsavitsk wrote:
> > I think the best response is to say that as wget was not installed, I
> went
> > to /usr/ports/ftp/wget
> >
> > typed "make install" and the necessary files (a few MB worth) were
> > retrieved from gnu.org in about 20 seconds.  much faster than the
> files I
> > am geting w/ urllib.
>
> That doesn't reveal anything interesting. For example, the gnu.org site
> might be a lot faster than the one that you were testing, you might have
> been experiencing transient network problems when testing urllib, etc.
>
as I say, the site i am testing is on a computer not 8 inches from the
FreeBSD one (attached to the same kvm no less).  The files must traverse
nearly 6 feet of cable, 3 other computers were able to download much more
quickly, and the freebsd one has failed all day (even switching network
cable and spots in the switch).

further, for a 2 meg file on

Python 2.2.1 (#1, Oct  5 2002, 11:19:44)
[GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os
>>> os.system('/usr/local/bin/wget
"http://192.168.0.4/index.asp?file=name" -O file.ext')

takes less than 2 seconds

while
>>> f = open('file2.ext', 'w')
>>> u = urllib.urlopen("http://192.168.0.4/index.asp?file=name")
>>> f.write(u.read())
>>> f.close()

takes about 2 minutes

so, it seems that using wget is the proper way to preceed, but i would
rather a python solution.

-doug






From steve at ferg.org  Sun Nov 17 12:46:57 2002
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 09:46:57 -0800
Subject: System Administration with Python -- documentation?
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0211170946.75a32d81@posting.google.com>

I'd like to suggest Python as a useful tool for our (NT and Unix)
System Administrators.

Ideally, there would be a book called something like "System
Administration with Python" or "Python for System Administrators", and
I could just recommend that book. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to
be such a book in print.  (I think there is a need here that O'Reilly
should jump on!)

I have found the "System Administration" category of the "Python
Cookbook".  It has some useful material, but of course it is not
designed to give systematic and comprehensive coverage of all of the
tasks that a system administrator would like to do with Python.

Does anyone have any suggestions for materials on the subject of
Python for System Administrators?  Online materials?  Chapters from
books?  Anything?


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Fri Nov 22 21:11:58 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:11:58 -0800
Subject: SMTP Relaying
References: <3DDC02A5.2090003@yahoo.com> <mailman.1037852549.30373.python-list@python.org> <CwiD9.75869$%m4.36039@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <f5omra.bl4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

greenbeard fed this fish to the penguins on Thursday 21 November 2002 
08:37 pm:

>
> 
> No spamming here!   I have a program sends me files on a timer from my
> remote machine at home to where I work.    (Good for surfing at work -
> although no images) Now the place I am at during the day uses the
> Message Labs Virus Scanning Service so the email is definately being
> forwarded.  Anyway.  I have no problem sending to other servers it is
> only the @work one.   My guess is that it checks the headers and sees
> that it originated from my local machine, routed through my webserver
> , and assumes that it is spam and therefore blocks it.
> 
> Guess I will have to keep smackin' the code.
>
        Are you sure you are specifying the correct SMTP destination host. 
Could your company have a machine explicitly for inbound email, and 
then /that/ machine delivers to the inside work machines.

        You've been hiding the actual destination address so none of us is 
able to examine the situation. What happens if you use your destination 
address as part of a DNS MX record look-up? You may need to send to one 
of the MX hosts.

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Thu Nov  7 17:57:14 2002
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:57:14 -0700
Subject: embedding error
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E20192017746A9@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Lance [mailto:lbrannma at cablespeed.com] 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The code in section 5.3 of the Python "Extending and 
> Embedding the Python Interpreter" won't compile for me. I get 
> a link error,
> 
> LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "python22_d.lib"
> 
> I include stdafx.h and python.h at the top of my C program.
> 
> Python22_d.lib is not on my machine. I'm running a recent 
> release of PythonWin.
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.

You need to get the sourcee code for Python and compile it yourself.
python22_d.lib is created from a debug build, the regular distributions
only give you the release builds.

-- bjorn



From owen at nospam.invalid  Thu Nov  7 19:38:43 2002
From: owen at nospam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 16:38:43 -0800
Subject: Building Python 2.2.2 with aqua Tk support on MacOS X 10.2 -- instructions
Message-ID: <aqf13o$224g$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Instructions for building Python 2.2.2 with aqua Tk support (plus 
readlines and XML parsing) are available at 
<http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/>. Thanks to the many people 
(credited in the document) who helped me figure out how to do it.

There are still a few minor glitches, but no show stoppers. I may update 
the file over time if any answers come in for the glitches. The 
procedure should be simpler for building Python 2.3, when that comes out.

-- Russell


From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Thu Nov 28 08:10:11 2002
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 13:10:11 GMT
Subject: using com object written in python from iis/asp
References: <as2qk2$s28ig$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> <QEbF9.20627$hg1.57756@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <as3joh$s2uni$2@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
Message-ID: <as54jj$s4r9q$1@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>

Uwe Schmitt <uwe.schmitt at procoders.net> wrote:
> Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote:
>> Uwe Schmitt wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I wrote a python script for the implementation of a
>>> com server. If I use a python script as client, everything
>>> is o.k. But if I try to contact the com object from an ASP 
>>> script, I get:
>>> 
>>>    Python COM Server Internal Error- Fehler '80004002' 
>>> 
>>>    Unexpected Python Error: exceptions.ImportError: No module named com_planefit 
>>> 

>> If com_planefit.py is on a network path, this could be your problem. 
>> COM objects run by IIS are run under the LocalSystem user, not your 
>> current user.  This is almost always the underlying reason for such 
>> problems.

> Yes, you're right, it's on a network path. I'll try it tomorow.

Well, I tried it, and it works for the py2exe version  of the server.

BUT: If I use the script-version of the com-server I get

    Warning: Unable to obtain IDispatch interface for CLSID
    {D0940C70-C0B8-42C9-A542-2587D8F9190D}: ClassFactory kann angeforderte Klasse
    nicht liefern in c:\inetpub\wwwroot\com.php on line 4

That is the CLSID of my script server. Again python clients can access
the server...

Greetings, Uwe.


-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt      Computer science is no more about Computers,
uwe.schmitt at num.uni-sb.de      than astronomy is about telescopes. (Dijkstra)
http://www.procoders.net           


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Nov 21 03:02:38 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 09:02:38 +0100
Subject: Does Python (or psyco) already do this optimisation?
References: <mailman.1037861909.23049.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3n0o3uz8h.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:

> Anyway, would be interested to know if someone C-knowledgable has done
> this already and 1) integrated it into Python or psyco already, or 2)
> decided it just isn't a feasible approach?

Local namespaces are accessed by integer index only, global namespaces
are accessed by dictionary only; object attribute lookup uses complex
procedures.

Regards,
Martin


From bramwijnands at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 25 17:58:40 2002
From: bramwijnands at hotmail.com (Biohazard)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:58:40 GMT
Subject: Some good Python tuts ?
References: <h5wE9.101$Tl3.2735@nlnews00.chello.com> <slrnau53rs.i9.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <AWxE9.54$kw3.3459@nlnews00.chello.com>

thnx m8  =)


"Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard.haering at gmx.de> schreef in bericht
news:slrnau53rs.i9.gerhard.haering at lilith.my-fqdn.de...
> Bram Wijnands wrote:
> > well i'm looking for some good tutorials for python im not a beginning
> > programmer i know perl/php/vb and basic :P
> >
> > anyway got some ideas ? :)
>
> Did you find the "Python for Beginners" page, yet?
>
> I think it has exactly what you're looking for:
>
> http://www.python.org/doc/Newbies.html
>
> Have fun :-)
>
> -- Gerhard




From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Sat Nov  9 18:41:30 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 00:41:30 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <3DCD8571.6CACEA04@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <ud6pe48gl.fsf@online.no>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> I'm an emacs user, so the first thing I did when I started fiddling
> around with Python is installed python-mode.  Because of that, I have
> never once counted spaces, never once had space/tab problems, never
> once
> 
> had a problem indenting/unintending a region, and whenever I've
> forgotten the odd colon, good ol' python-mode has made it very clear
> to
> 
> me what the problem was.
> 
> The same goes for Lisp (and all its variants, like Scheme).  You might
> 
> have to count parentheses if you had to physically write it down with
> pencil and paper, but in the real world you'll be using an editor, and
> 
> the editor will help you match parentheses and do the gruntwork for
> you.

I basically agree Erik, the parenthesis in Lisp is a matter of getting
used to something. I do find that when I am coding Elisp, I find it a
bit more work to restructure code, this is because the amount of
parenthesises but also because I follow the usual Lisp practice of
lining up the remaining parenthesis at the end of the line.

On another note, I think the Smalltalk method call (keyword message send)
syntax is fabulously readable, why haven't anybody picked that up?
Code like this is marvelously more understandable than the usual
position based argument list that one uses in Lisp and C.

Ex: 

aCircle paintOn: aCanvas at: aPoint

Where aCircle, aCanvas and aPoint are variable names, and what is
happening is that one is calling the method paintOn: at: where aCircle
is self. The alternative:

aCircle.paint(aCanvas, aPoint)

is okay for this example but the smalltalk way lets you convey much
more. Python has a kind of middle ground with its keyword messages,
which is good but not quite as nice as Smalltalk.

 

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From rajarshi at presidency.com  Fri Nov 15 17:31:33 2002
From: rajarshi at presidency.com (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:31:33 -0500
Subject: read n bytes from a binary file
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.15.17.31.32.977054.25911@presidency.com>

Hi,
  I have a simple question, but I cant seem to find the function to do
it!
How can I read N bytes from  a file opened in binary mode. Basically I'm
trying to check that a PDF file is indeed a PDF file

thanks,


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 15 18:48:56 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:48:56 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <yu99y97vvu1b.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
References: <mailman.1037329485.24812.python-list@python.org> <yu99y97vvu1b.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <200211152348.PAA05483@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Friday 15 November 2002 05:31, Andrew Koenig wrote:

> Simon> Yeah there's plenty of nice things in the STL, but it's a
> Simon> library, not part of the language.
>
> The distinction isn't particularly important.

True, but I think the original point in the thread was that in describing 
Python, you have to almost immediately talk about tuples, lists, and 
dictionaries, since they are so important to the core language (argument 
passing, multiple argument returns, introspection of objects, namespaces, 
etc.), as well as being immediately useful builtin datatypes for programmers. 
 With C++, you can get away with not discussing many of the standard library 
containers, until after you have discussed references, pointers, 
call-by-value vs. call-by-ref, etc.

So, while your point about knowing and using the standard library is well 
made, it may be an orthogonal one to how early it should be introduced to new 
users of the language (at least, as far as standard containers and such go)

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From jtk at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  1 13:35:57 2002
From: jtk at yahoo.com (Jeff Kowalczyk)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:35:57 -0500
Subject: Passing parameters to obj found by path expressions in ZPT?
Message-ID: <apuhj9$bpd$1@main.gmane.org>

Is there a way to pass parameters to the methods on objects referenced by path
expressions? I'm trying to streamline an interactive formulator template that will retain
the values between postbacks.

<html><head><title>The title</title></head><body>
<span tal:replace="structure request/form"> </span>
<form name="sign_in" method="post" action="sign_in">
<tal:block define="global formErrors python:container.check_form('login')" />
<div tal:repeat="repeatform python: here.objectValues(['Formulator Form'])">
   <h1 tal:content="repeatform/title"></h1>
   <div tal:repeat="repeatfield repeatform/get_fields">
      <span tal:replace="structure repeatfield/title" />:<br>
      <span tal:condition="python:not request.has_key('field_password')"
         tal:replace="structure repeatfield/render" /><br>
      <span tal:condition="python:request.has_key('field_password')"
         tal:replace="structure repeatfield/render_from_request" /><br>
      <span tal:condition="python:request.REQUEST_METHOD == 'POST'"
         tal:content="structure python:formErrors[repeatfield]" tal:on-error="string:"
         style="color:red">error goes here</span>
   </div>
</div>
<p><input type="submit" value="Submit"></p>
</form></body></html>

Error Type: TALESError
Error Value: exceptions.TypeError on render_from_request() takes exactly 2 arguments (1
given) in "standard:'repeatfield/render_from_request'", at line 16, column 7

A python expression should work better for parameters, but the object ids would be
hardcoded.
span tal:replace="structure
python:container.myform.myfield.render_from_request(here.REQUEST)" />

But I can't monkey around with a getattr() for the form and field until I learn how to
reference the repeat variables 'repeatfield' and 'repeatform' within python expressions,
how do I do that?

Any ideas on any of these fronts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.







From rbsharp at gmx.de  Wed Nov 27 03:41:14 2002
From: rbsharp at gmx.de (Richard Sharp)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 00:41:14 -0800
Subject: install on AIX
References: <mailman.1038245255.15657.python-list@python.org> <vBGE9.6593$1r1.259733@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <ccfc5ae3.0211270041.48638c10@posting.google.com>

My experience on this one is that it could have something to do with
mixed compilers. I have to install Python on a number of machines that
I didn't configure, but seem to have both the native compiler (in this
case from AIX) and the gcc compiler. I have never got right to the
bottom of it. But saying:
"without-gcc=yes" and also "with-cxx=no" helped on an SCO-machine.

Regards,
Richard Sharp

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message news:<vBGE9.6593$1r1.259733 at newsc.telia.net>...
> Doug Troupe wrote:
> 
> > configure:983: cc_r -o conftest    conftest.c  1>&5
> > cc_r: 1501-224 fatal error in /usr/vac/exe/xlcentry:
> > signal 11 received
> 
> did you try googling for the error message?  the following thread
> implies that it's a licensing issue and/or a missing patch:
> 
>     http://www.mainframeforum.com/t348952.html
> 
> </F>


From zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru  Tue Nov 26 11:41:38 2002
From: zhitenev at cs.vsu.ru (Lexy Zhitenev)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:41:38 +0300
Subject: How to convert ASCII-number => HEX -number => string of numbers in HEX ?
References: <3de39ca8$1@news.vip.fi>
Message-ID: <as0882$633$1@serv.vrn.ru>

 > Example:
>
> number         =    6673            (max is 0xFFF)

I think max is 0xFFFF

> hex -value     =    '0x1a11'
> string value    =    "\x31\x61\x31\x31"    (31 is one, 61 is 'a')
>
> or:
>
> number         =    333            (max is 0xFFF)
> hex -value     =    '0x14d'
> string value    =    "\x30\x31\x34\x64"    (30 is zero, 31 is one, 34 is
> four, 64 is "d")
>

This is not the most elegant and the fastest solution, but it's one of the
simplest I think.

>>> import operator

>>> conv_num = lambda r: reduce(operator.add, map(lambda x:
'\\x'+hex(ord(x))[2:], hex(r)[2:].zfill(4)))
>>> print conv_num(333)
\x30\x31\x34\x64

Look into library reference for ord, lambda, map and reduce.

hex(r)[2:].zfill(4) - make a string as a hex number
hex(ord(x))[1:] - '0' -> '0x30' -> 'x30'
map applies the above function consequently to all items of the string as a
hex number
reduce(operator.add, xxx) turns the list of 'map' results back to string.

operator.add = lambda x,y: x+y, only faster.

Good Luck!




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Nov  7 04:04:45 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 10:04:45 +0100
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036612151.5855.python-list@python.org> <slrnasj332.v3h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <j465v93g42.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> writes:

> I don't really like the idea of hacking around with the warning
> module, so I guess I'll replace 0x80000000 with (-0x7fffffff-1) which
> won't generate a warning on any version of Python and will work on all
> versions... I think ;-)

I would still recommend to use 0x8000000L instead; it saves you one
computation, and is more readable.

Regards,
Martin


From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Sat Nov 16 10:30:07 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:30:07 +0100
Subject: Python instead of php
In-Reply-To: <m3wund1rta.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
References: <pan.2002.11.16.12.25.12.658252@gmx.net> <m3wund1rta.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20021116153007.GA2139@lilith.ghaering.test>

* Brian Lalor <blalor+dated+1037890690.2bec79 at ithacabands.org> [2002-11-16 15:09 +0000]:
> "Marten Bauer" <Marten.Bauer at gmx.net> writes:
> 
> > Is it possible to use python like php as script language to writte
> > the Userinterfaces also in html and python?
> > 
> > Is modpython for apache or Twisted from Tweak Labroratory a possible
> > way?
> 
> With the recent release of a standalone ZPT/TAL interpreter, I think replacing
> PHP with Python is easier than ever.  Out of the box you can interpret TAL
> templates with relative ease simply by passing in an execution context (which
> in my case was just a dict).  Its well worth a look.

Do you have an URL for the standalone ZPT/TAL?

-- Gerhard



From graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk  Wed Nov  6 07:28:09 2002
From: graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk (Frodo Morris)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 12:28:09 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <3DC8C177.8CC0164E@earthlink.net>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8C177.8CC0164E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <aqb1pt$sdl$2@news.ox.ac.uk>

Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> Frodo Morris wrote:
> 
>>Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
>>
>>>Frodo Morris wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Daniel Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>Apache would essentially have a mod_parrot.  Maybe, if this can be
>>>>>tested very hard, we'd even have a Parrot kernel module for all
>>>>>Unices supporting that.  Then exec() could perform compiled scripts
>>>>>right away, like machine code :-)
>>>>
>>>>I would have thought that a more platform-independent version of
>>>>this would be, say, a parrotd, which sits on top of the kernel,
>>>>intercepts calls to exec() bytecode and spawns the relevant
>>>>processes.
>>>
>>>
>>>What advantage would this have over putting a #! line in the
>>>bytecode?
>>>
>>
>>Faster, better, cheaper.
>>Imagine if parrot could understand all interpreted code.
> 
> 
> It can't.  Parrot can only understand parrot bytecode.
> 
> 
>>Why not leave it running, so that any Perl/Python/Tcl/Ruby/Java/sh/
>>BASIC/whatever code can get to it immediately?
> 
> 
> Ignoring the problem of compiling those languages down to parrot
> bytecode...
> 
> How should the kernel detect that a parrot-bytecode file is, in fact,
> parrot bytecode?
> 
> For normal exe files, there's the execute bit and some standard headers.
> For normal scripts, there's the execute bit and the #! line.
It would be advantageous to performance if a pre-byte-compiled version 
of the script hangs around that can be launched directly by parrot. 
IANAE but doesn't Python do this already?  And doesn't Java *require* this?
-- 
FM



From rrodrig743 at earthlink.net  Mon Nov  4 01:35:36 2002
From: rrodrig743 at earthlink.net (SirStargazer)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 22:35:36 -0800
Subject: Is there a good checksum system for OPENBSD?
References: <v03110708b9ebc25f468a@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <004b01c283cc$66437860$2101a8c0@sunrise>

Man mtree, with emphasis on the "Examples" portion.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John D." <lists at webcrunchers.com>
To: <list at dshield.org>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>; <tech at openbsd.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:27 PM
Subject: Is there a good checksum system for OPENBSD?


> I'm looking for a Program that compares md5 file checksums in a file
against actual files and reports discrepancies.   A commercial program like
"Tripwire" does this,  but isn't there an Open Source program that can do
this.
>
> It would be a good thing to use for files in the /bin directories,  and
other places where one would not expect files to be changed,   but would
easily identify trojans,  and other changes to executeable files and
binaries.
>
> I suppose it wouldn't be that hard to write this in Python or Perl.   But
how long would it take to checksum thousands of files?
>
> John
>




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov 20 08:12:45 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 13:12:45 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org> <slrnasuojg.l14.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <pan.2002.11.20.04.16.26.459889@mn.rr.com>
Message-ID: <arg1od$1vo$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 04:15:49 GMT, "Anna" <revanna at mn.rr.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:50:57 +0000, Robin Munn wrote:
>
>> Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>> I'm certainly amazed at the tolerance people have for questions that
>>> are readily answered in a number of on-line tutorials, and in both the
>>> Python books that I have (Learning Python and the Python Cookbook). In
>>> the end, the friendly attitude may be the killer feature.
>> 
>> Out of curiosity, do you think a response like: "That's covered in the
>> Python tutorial -- look at [URL]" will strike a newbie as friendly or
>> not? I ask because that's the kind of answer I will tend to write when
>> I'm in a hurry. Sometimes I will take the time to phrase the answer in
>> my own words, but often I won't want to duplicate the work that someone
>> else has already done in writing that tutorial. So if you were a newbie
>> getting a curt response like that, would you feel it was a brushoff, or
>> would you feel like your question had been answered?
>
>Okay - you asked. And since I am a newbie, I?ll answer.
>
>Before asking a question here, I?d have already read the tutorial (and
>probably 3 more tutorials and done a google search too). I wouldn?t feel
>comfortable asking here unless I had.
>
>So if I?m still here asking, it?s because I need an answer that *isn?t*
>just a reference to the tutorial, something from a live human being... So,
>yeah, I guess I would consider it a brushoff, unless you took the time to
>expand on the tutorial in some way... Personally, I?d far rather get no
>answer than ?RTFM, silly newbie?... cuz chances are, I already did...
>
>Just my $.03 worth.
>
Ok, several attagirls for you ;-) But as a poster asking for help,
you are playing a role in a system that includes volunteers writing docs
as well as writing code etc. If you just say you need help without giving
the system context (i.e., what you read that was insufficient or unclear) it
is like saying "my program bombed, please help." It's not near as useful
or engaging as a clear depiction of your experience. In the case of code,
the best is usually a verbatim copy/paste showing an interactive test failing.

In the case of docs, the stack trace is your report on where you looked
and where you gave up in frustration.

If there is a lack in the docs that consistently tends to confuse newbies,
that's good information. It's like a bug report wrt docs. If it's serious,
it should be fixed. You can help make things better for others that follow,
by visualizing where they are likely to have the trouble you did, and pointing
to where a road sign should be set to make their trip easier.

Help those who will follow as you would be helped by those you are following ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From leazen at uol.com.ar  Thu Nov  7 10:09:57 2002
From: leazen at uol.com.ar (Leazen)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:09:57 -0300
Subject: wxPython or PyQt
References: <3DC8F08B.16542.D93852@localhost>
Message-ID: <3DCA8245.3020902@uol.com.ar>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

 I started my GUI programming in Python with Tkinter and quickly
switched to wxPython. I have not tried pyQT since I have only developed
for Windows and the lic. stuff was an annoyance.
 I have done only one project in wxPython in Windows.

Ken Godee wrote:
> Serge,
> I've just been going thru this same question myself
> trying to decide which way to go. wxPython / PyQt and
> have decided to go the PyQt way for my first adventures
> in python/GUI. I've both running on my system now
> Here's a couple of things I've noted.....
>
> wxPython is a wrapper around wxWindows which is a wrapper
> around (ie.) GTK.
> PyQt is a wrapper around Qt.
> Installing and Compiling all the way to wxPython was a pain.
>
> There's really no "free" ide like qtdesigner in wxPython.
> PyQt's code seems cleaner and easier to translate the
> c++ doc's.

 As for the free IDEs, there is Boa (boa-constructor.sourceforge.net)
and PythonCard (sourceforge.net/projects/pythoncard/) (at least).
 I use Boa and find it very good (use the CVS version) though it doesn't
work with the latest version of wxPython (the problems of working with
unstable APIs I guess) and some features need to mature.
 I didn't like PythonCard, I guess it is to foreign to my VB past. :)

> PyQt's (Qt) widgets seem better, ie... take a look at the "MDI" for
> both, opps, you can't, there isn't one for wxPython running on Linux
> only for win. ie. wx only takes on the native look and feel of the base
> system vs Qt's builtin themeable designs, etc......

 There is also wxUniversal but there is no Python wrapper yet.
 wxUniversal would use X directly, just like QT, if I understood correctly.

> I think your right, the lic. issues was the hardest thing that keep
> drawing me back and forth when trying to decide between the two.
> But.... when I really thought about it, I'll really be working only on
linux
> anyway.
>
> The user base for wxPython is quite good and is being updating.

 I think a new stable version will be released within a couple of months.

> Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing what other people thing too.
>
>
>>Hi, guys,
>>I'm a user of PyQt and I believe this library is very nice, it
>>supports Xft, it has very flexible signal-slots mechanism, and
>>enormous collection of widgets and other useful classes, but I
>>noticed that many projects use wxPython instead.
>>
>>What are the advantages of wxPython over PyQt or it's just a matter of
>>licensing policies: wxPython is free on every platform it supports,
>>meanwhile PyQt (or Qt) is completely free only under X?
>>
>>Looking forward to hearing from you.
>>
>>-Serge
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From costanza at web.de  Sun Nov 24 16:49:25 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:49:25 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <mailman.1037993694.2261.python-list@python.org> <arm9oa$but$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <6qyD9.60432$Yw.2729711@news2.tin.it> <armdko$jgb$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <KsLD9.44802$744.1610007@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <arrhh6$hur$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Pascal Costanza wrote:
> 
> 
>>Alex Martelli wrote:
>>
>>>Pascal Costanza wrote:
>>>   ...
>>>
>>>>(All the scripting languages I have seen so far rely on C for the hairy
>>>>stuff - and I definitely don't like that. There should be some
>>>>alternative.)
>>>
>>>There is.  Jython, www.jython.org, is an implementation of the Python
>>>language in and for Java -- complete, working, and quite solid.
>>
>>Ah, yes, of course. But you don't want to suggest that Java is a
>>language that is useful for doing hairy and complex stuff. (Sure, most
> 
> 
> More productive than C, at any rate; and we see oodles of "hairy
> and complex stuff" done mostly in C and fairly well too.
> 
> 
> 
>>things become hairy and complex in Java, but that's a totally different
>>story. ;)
>>
>>I mean, Python is already more advanced than Java.
> 
> 
> Oh, I agree with this, but that's not the point.
> 
> 

Er, I have thought that's exactly the point. What do you need a 
backstage language for that is less powerful than the frontstage 
language? (I guess that Jython is useful to take advantage of the Java 
APIs and its platform independence.)

>>So my main vision is to turn Common Lisp into such a kind of common
>>runtime for various languages. That's one reason why I started the JVM
>>implementation in Common Lisp.
>>
>>Does this make some sense?
> 
> 
> Sure.
> 
> 

Thanks. ;)

>>P.S.: I know that this sounds like a major undertaking. ;)
> 
> 
> Not just "sounds" -- surely IS.  But so what -- major undertakings
> do sometimes succeed, after all!-)
> 

:-)


-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov  1 17:37:55 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 22:37:55 GMT
Subject: Regular exp matching delimited string excepting trailing delimiters?
References: <mailman.1036086000.15801.python-list@python.org> <D_ew9.56722$aL4.1716505@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036094831.4251.python-list@python.org> <apsple$ir9$1@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1036157403.12998.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <apuvo3$fha$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:27:34 -0500, "Jeff Kowalczyk" <jtk at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> You mean just trim the tail of commas? In that case just skip the re and do
>>  >>> 'A,,C,123,D,,,,,J,,,,,,,'.rstrip(',')
>>  'A,,C,123,D,,,,,J'
>> Regards, Bengt Richter
>
>That's really cool and much more appropriate than a RegExp, but it doesn't seem to work in
>my Python 2.1.3 or Python 2.2.1, is there any trick to it?
>
 No trick. I guess it came with 2.2.2?

 Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> help(str.rstrip)
 Help on method_descriptor:

 rstrip(...)
     S.rstrip([sep]) -> string or unicode

     Return a copy of the string S with trailing whitespace removed.
     If sep is given and not None, remove characters in sep instead.
     If sep is unicode, S will be converted to unicode before stripping

BTW, note that it said "characters [plural] in sep" so
 >>> 'A,,C,123,D,,,,,J,,,,,,,'.rstrip(',J')
 'A,,C,123,D'

and lstrip and strip work the same, e.g.,
 >>> 'A,,C,123,D,,,,,J,,,,,,,'.strip(',JA')
 'C,123,D'

so you could clean off [\r\n\t ] also, all in one swell foop ;-)

>>>> 'yada,,,,'.rstrip(',')
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>TypeError: rstrip() takes no arguments (1 given)
>
>>>> mystring.rstrip(',')
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>TypeError: rstrip() takes no arguments (1 given)
>
Well, if you need to go back to a regular expression, maybe this?

 >>> import re
 >>> rx = re.compile(r'(.*[^,]),*$')
 >>> s = 'A,,C,123,D,,,,,J,,,,,,,'
 >>> rx.search(s).group(1)
 'A,,C,123,D,,,,,J'

Of course, there has to be at least one non-comma in the input or the match
object returned is None:

 >>> rx.search(',,,').group(1)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group'

so you may want to test the mo before doing mo.group(1), or catch
the exception. Or add something to get a null string back:

 >>> rx = re.compile(r'(.*[^,]|[^,]?),*$')
 >>> rx.search(',,,').group(1)
 ''
 >>> rx.search('').group(1)
 ''
 >>> rx.search(s).group(1)
 'A,,C,123,D,,,,,J'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From treworn at cyberspace.org  Tue Nov 19 16:12:31 2002
From: treworn at cyberspace.org (trewornan)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:12:31 +0000
Subject: wxPython crashing windows
Message-ID: <3DDAA93F.40007@cyberspace.org>

Well the subject says it all - has anyone else found wxPython crashing 
windows (all the way to a blue screen). Even the most basic program 
seems to do this.

M



From tundra at tundraware.com  Tue Nov 19 18:50:07 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 23:50:07 GMT
Subject: Implementing some of 'ls -l" directly in python
Message-ID: <16iera.t5g1.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

I have been looking high and low for several hours to answer a (probably
simple) question with no luck. So, to the PyGeniuses I go:

I want to implement something similar to an 'ls -l file' in a script I'm
writing. I'd like to avoid actually spawning 'ls' because I want to
script to run on Win32 as well as *nix.

So, I use os.path.getmtime and os.path.getsize for two of the things I
need. I then stat the file to get its UID, GID, and permission bits.
Here's where I get stuck. I cannot seem to find a portable way to
convert the UID/GID into their equivalent string names. Also, it would
be handy if there were a (portable) way to convert the permission value
into the more familiar u/g/o - drwx format.

Ideas?

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Nov 13 12:32:47 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:32:47 -0800
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD1AB92.3030409@something.invalid> <pan.2002.11.13.03.03.13.245195.12688@metaslash.com> <aqu1hd$tjk$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <eppstein-48D971.09324713112002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <aqu1hd$tjk$0 at 216.39.172.122>, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) 
wrote:

> >	>>> import math
> >	>>> def foo(): return foo.pi
> >	... 
> >	>>> foo.pi = math.pi
> >	>>> foo()
> >	3.1415926535897931
> >
> >I realize this isn't exactly what you are asking for,
> >but it is a way that works today.
> >
> Thanks. It does answer part of the requirement. I.e., you can release the math
> module with del math, but ... it's dependent on a persistent global name
> binding to foo.

How about:

>>> import math
>>> def foo(pi = math.pi): return pi
>>> bar = foo
>>> del math
>>> del foo
>>> bar()
3.1415926535897931

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From mwh at python.net  Sat Nov  9 08:21:48 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:21:48 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h31y5uyj81.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

oleg_inconnu at myrealbox.com (Oleg) writes:

> Hi
> 
> I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
> between Python and Common Lisp (
> http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?

For Common Lisp, at least, my guess is: a bizarre mix of history, bad
teaching, things that "everyone knows" that are plain wrong, a fright
reaction on seeing syntax you're not used to[1] and tendency to ignore
the rest of the world.

Scheme, maybe because there are almost as many implementations as
users?

Cheers,
M.
[1] How many people went "significant indentation! ugh!"?

-- 
  SPIDER:  'Scuse me. [scuttles off]
  ZAPHOD:  One huge spider.
    FORD:  Polite though.
                   -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 11


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sat Nov  9 00:03:45 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 21:03:45 -0800
Subject: Web based interface
References: <2027692.1036809220@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <hv4iqa.9o4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Tetsuo fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 08 November 2002 06:33 
pm:

t
> it's like a message board. I found a database (MySQL), a graphic
> interface for it (MySQLGUI), a module (MySQLdb), and they all even
> actually work. I also, after some struggle, found a magazine article
> that explained how to connect Python to MySQL. But I don't even know
> where to look to find out how to create dynamic Web pages with
> information from a database, read forms, and whatever else a message
> board could need.
> 
> Hail Lord Akira.
> 
> P.S. MySQLdb's doc said it's only supported on Linux. Where can I get
>      something for Win2K? And documentation for it, too?
> 
        http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=22307

Though be warned, the win32 self-installers are dependent upon the 
Python version.

        You might want to look into installing/using Zope.

--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov  6 05:52:16 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 10:52:16 GMT
Subject: Obtaining global and local dict's for current interpreter using C API
References: <mailman.1036547827.21056.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Av6y9.96337$TD1.4355808@news2.tin.it>

quadric at primenet.com wrote:
   ...
> How , and using which C API functions, do you acquire the PyObject * to
> the dictionaries
> ( both local and global) of the current interpreter.  I AM NOT looking for
> the dictionary of an
> imported module, but rather the dictionary of the current interpreter. 

There is no "dictionary of the current interpreter".  Each module has
a dictionary (also known as its "global dictionary") and each execution
frame has a local dictionary (the local variables of a function that's
executing don't necessarily use a real dictionary -- as an optimization,
they're basically held as an array -- but that's a different issue).

> You know, the one
> you get when executing  'dir()'  in the interpreter window.

That's the dictionary of the module named __main__.  You can get at
the module as sys.modules['__main__'], and its dict is the __dict__
attribute of the module, of course:

[alex at lancelot trans]$ python2.2
Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 24 2002, 11:43:01)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> vars() is sys.modules['__main__'].__dict__
1
>>> 

and dir() just gives the sorted keys of vars().

 
> The C API docs say to do the following:
> 
> PyObject * pdict = PyObject_Dir(NULL);
> 
> and , assuming an execution frame is active, should return the dictionary.
> 
> 1>    What is an execution frame?
> 2>    How do I know if an execution frame is active?
> 3>    I've tried this and only get NULL in return, indicating the absence of
> an active
> execution frame, I guess?

Basically, an execution frame is active if your code is being
called from Python code.  Some info on frame objects is towards
the end of http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/types.html .


> My code looks similar to this:
> 
> PyObject * pres = NULL , * pdict = NULL;
> int  result = 0;
> 
> Py_Initialize();
> 
> pdict = PyObject_Dir(NULL);   // Returns a useless NULL pointer
> 
> if ( pdict != NULL )
> {
> PyRun_SimpleString( "result = 4 + 5" );
> pres = PyObject_GetAttrString( pdict , "result" );
> PyArg_Parse( pres , "i" , &result);
> }
> 
> 
> // decrement any references here
> 
> Py_Finalize();

This code also has other problems -- if you DID manage to get
the main module's directory, you would find that it does not
have an ATTRIBUTE named result, but rather an ITEM by that name
(key, actually).  Anyway, here's a roughly equivalent little
program, which however should work as I think you intend:

#include "Python.h"
#include <stdio.h>

int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
    PyObject *pres, *mainmodule;
    int  result = 0;

    Py_Initialize();
    mainmodule = PyImport_AddModule("__main__");
    PyRun_SimpleString("result = 4 + 5\n");
    pres = PyObject_GetAttrString(mainmodule, "result");

    PyArg_Parse(pres, "i", &result);
    Py_Finalize();

    printf("Result is %d\n", result);

    return 0;
}


Alex



From whisper at oz.net  Thu Nov  7 23:51:49 2002
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:51:49 -0800
Subject: Command.com hosed. OS.system python modules won't execute properly
In-Reply-To: <20021108041345.67064.qmail@web11405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEAEOJFOAA.whisper@oz.net>

I believe you must set your COMSPEC to the same as the SHELL so that the
additional env space is available for command interpreters invoked by other
programs. "Shell" is only for the initial interactive command interpreter
and COMSPEC is for other invocations.

HTH,

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA

  -----Original Message-----
  From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On
Behalf Of Tony C
  Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 20:14
  To: python-list at python.org
  Subject: Command.com hosed. OS.system python modules won't execute
properly




  In order to get my Python environment variables, and path working
correctly, under Windows 98, I had to add the following to my config.sys,
because my environment ran out of space

  shell=C:\command.com /p /E:4096



  Now, when I try to execute modules in OS, such as OS.system('cls'), python
reports the following error

   >>> import os
  >>> os.system('cls')
  Invalid COMMAND.COM
  Enter correct name of Command Interpreter (eg, C:\COMMAND.COM)


  If I don't add the /p to the shell= statement, a "File Creation Error"
message is displayed before Windows 98 loads, and the DOS prompt is
displayed.

  I found the /P solution to the "File creation error" message problem on
Google:groups. Apparently a lot of people had the same problem, in Win 95
days.



  Does anyboy have some insight to my command interpreter problem ?

  thanks









----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
  Do you Yahoo!?
  U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD
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From treworn at cyberspace.org  Tue Nov 12 19:55:15 2002
From: treworn at cyberspace.org (trewornan)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:55:15 +0000
Subject: total and utter newbie
References: <pan.2002.11.12.23.36.32.644986@webmail.co.za> <mailman.1037145377.2807.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD1A2F3.1040802@cyberspace.org>

John Hunter wrote:
>>>>>>"rockbox" == rockbox  <rockboxb at webmail.co.za> writes:
>>>>>
> 
>     rockbox> Hi.  I hope that this is the right group to post this
>     rockbox> problem in. If not then I appologise.
> 
> Ahh yes, the oldest newbie problem in the book :-)
> 
> In current versions of python (as in C and many other programming
> languages) an integer divided by an integer returns an integer, so
> 
> x = 3/2      #x is 1
> 
> but if either number is a floating point number, then the division you
> are expecting is used
> 
> x = 3.0/2.0  # x = 1.5
> 
> The trick is to add a decimal point and a 0 to your number unless you
> want integer behavior
> 
> x = 3.0/2  # this is also 1.5
> 
> This is being phased out of python, and is slated for destruction.
> 
> Recent versions of python (2.2?) allow you to use
> 
> from __future__ import division
> 
> at the beginning of your program to get the division you are
> expecting.
> 
> See http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0238.html for the official
> information about these changes, and how how to do old fashioned
> integer division under the new system when you want to.
> 
> Have fun!
> John Hunter
> 

Is there anything like a cast in Python? Just out of interest.

M



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 18 10:42:13 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:42:13 -0500
Subject: shutil module
References: <mailman.1037616151.30715.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ieydnYTyke4OlUSgXTWcog@comcast.com>

"asdfasd asdfasdf" <s802645999 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037616151.30715.python-list at python.org...
> shutil.copy (glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events*'), r'c:\temp')

I think its's worth noting that forward slashes *do* work on Windows.
This is more portable, clearer both to read and check (since in Python
context one learns to see \x as one char), and more resilient (since
easily forgotten r not needed).

Unfortunately, glob or functions it calls will change the last slash
to a backslash.  (I obviously would prefer that it did not.)

> i checked the output of glob and it says
>
> >>> glob.glob(r'c:\winnt\temp\events-*')
> ['c:\\winnt\\temp\\events-18-Nov-2002.txt']
>
> could it be the double slash that is making the fault....??

This are no double slashes in the string itself (use len() to check).
They are merely doubled 'for your benefit' on the display.  So this is
not a possible reason.

Terry J. Reedy




From DC_Specialty at iqmotors.com  Tue Nov 26 10:56:39 2002
From: DC_Specialty at iqmotors.com (DC_Specialty at iqmotors.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:56:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: NOS Can Make This NEON SST Sing!!
Message-ID: <200211261556.KAA85623@www1505.boca15-verio.com>


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From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 16 13:13:08 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 18:13:08 GMT
Subject: wrapping all class methods
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com> <mailman.1037385864.30209.python-list@python.org> <pan.2002.11.16.12.39.49.262808.1346@club-internet.fr> <7HAfWUAhuj19EwTr@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ar61rk$gun$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:35:45 +0000, Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <pan.2002.11.16.12.39.49.262808.1346 at club-internet.fr>, Pedro Rodriguez <pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr> writes
>
>This might be true for a proper program, but in this context
>I don't know which exceptions are being silently ignored further
>up the chain. So this was an attempt at a quick and dirty diagnostic
> to discover which exceptions were being raised in the backend and

Just wondering if you had used

   http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/debugger-hooks.html#debugger-hooks

It's relatively easy to set up quick-and-dirty stuff to log various events
using sys.settrace(yourfunc). I say that on the basis of having started a
tracewatch module that I haven't gotten back to polishing, but that does
a few useful things.

> where they were called from. Anygui has lots of exception handling
> trapping (especially attribute traps) so errors in the backend can
> often go unnoticed.
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Tue Nov 26 21:01:25 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:01:25 -0500
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
References: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com> <3de3e129$0$4437$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <as0p9f$3c7$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <uu89r7d7flnd09@news.supernews.com>

"Joshua Marshall" <jmarshal at mathworks.com> wrote in message
news:as0p9f$3c7$1 at ginger.mathworks.com...
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> > In article <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908 at newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>,
Steven Rumbalski wrote:
>
> >> In python I can write:
> >>
> >> a, b = i, j
> >>
> >> but the following is not legal:
> >>
> >> a, b += i, j
> >>
> >> Is there a reason that allowing this would be bad?
>
> > If it were allowed, what do you propose it would do?
>
> Maybe:
>
>   a, b += i, j
>
> is equivalent to
>
>   tmp = j
>   a += i
>   b += tmp
>
> I use a temp because of this sort of situation:
>
>   a, b += b, a

I'd think it would be equivalent to:

a += i
b += j

the corner case you mention should behave
the same as

a, b = b, a

Why make it more complicated than it has
to be?

John Roth




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 22 18:09:06 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:09:06 GMT
Subject: Iteration of strings
References: <DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489@news010.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <mOyD9.60533$Yw.2736664@news2.tin.it>

Bjarke Dahl Ebert wrote:
    ...
> I think the current situation makes the described script bug ("for x in
> strlist:" when strlist is a string) pass too silently. Often it results in
> code that "works", because a string is effectively also a list of strings.

Yes. I count that as a slight wart of Python.  String slices are often 
handy, but if strings were "sliceable but not iterable" perhaps Python
would be a netter language.


> What do you think?

It's too late to fix, of course -- any fix would break working code 
(although it might conceivably be eased in slowly via "future import").
But it may be an idea for the mythical "Python 3000" that will be allowed to 
break compatibility (basically the analog of the Lord Maitreya...).


Alex



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov  2 14:39:06 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 11:39:06 -0800
Subject: List slice assignment and custom sequences
References: <mailman.1036253763.6896.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DC429DA.D11E051C@alcyone.com>

Ronald Oussoren wrote:

> I traced this to the implementation of this feature in type 'list': It
> requires that the new version of the slice is also a 'list':
> 
>         l = [ 1, 2, 3, 4]
>         l[1:3] = range(10)      # works fine
>         l[1:3] = xrange(10) # raises TypeError
> 
> Why must the RHS side of 'l[1:3] = expr()' be an instance of 'list'?

Well, you want to splice one list into another.  Both have to be lists. 
To convert any sequence S to an actual list, use the list builtin:

	list(S)

So you'd just write your problem code as

	l[1:3] = list(xrange(10))

Although in this case, needless to say, range(10) would make a great
deaal more sense.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Triumph cannot help being cruel.
\__/ Jose Ortega y Gasset
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From alusk at uiuc.edu  Tue Nov 26 16:47:11 2002
From: alusk at uiuc.edu (Andrew Lusk)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 15:47:11 -0600
Subject: Learning Python
References: <64ddf295.0211261345.75f47d1b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87adjw9f6o.fsf@uiuc.edu>

valrub at hotmail.com (val) writes:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I'll be use Python in upcoming project in the beginning of next year
> and now I'm looking for some text book on that language.
> Maybe some suggestions...?

I would suggest Python: the essential reference by David Beazley.  The
O'Reilly book is out of date AFAIK.

http://islab.cs.uchicago.edu/python/

--Andrew


From edream at tds.net  Sun Nov 17 06:37:12 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:37:12 GMT
Subject: Uninstalling Python 2.1.3 hosed Outlook Express
Message-ID: <IbLB9.14796$Hs2.2302388@kent.svc.tds.net>

I just did a vanilla uninstall of Python 2.1.3, which was installed normally
from Python-2.1.3.exe a few days ago without "rollback", IIRC.  Afterwards
the file msoe.dll could not be initialized, so Outlook Express could not be
run.  No big deal; downloading and installing the OE service pack appears to
have fixed everything.  Thought someone would like to know.  I'm using XP,
the latest service packs.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------




From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Wed Nov 27 12:11:22 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 17:11:22 GMT
Subject: floating point division -- question
References: <as2u3l$ncf6d$5@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrnau9uvh.1k0.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Some time ago, there was thread discussing adding a floating point division
> operator, like //.  Doing 'a//b' is certainly easier than doing 'a/float(b)',
> and it doesn't break any existing codes.  Has there been any interest from
> the Gods of Python?

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from __future__ import division
>>> 3 / 5
0.59999999999999998
>>> 3 // 5
0

It's been there since the original Python 2.2 release. See
http://www.python.org/doc/current/whatsnew/node7.html for details.
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Nov 27 09:06:06 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 15:06:06 +0100
Subject: what does is ?
References: <3de4a6dd$0$86531$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> <slrnau9cep.tk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <3DE4B96D.1060808@Linux.ie> <slrnau9fl9.hk.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <j4vg2j9kfl.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> writes:

> But it seems to me that the [:] slicing has an additional
> optimization, apart from interning.

Indeed; this is the code

	if (i == 0 && j == a->ob_size && PyString_CheckExact(a)) {
		/* It's the same as a */
		Py_INCREF(a);
		return (PyObject *)a;
	}

Notice that this optimization is only valid for immutable sequences;
this specific code is for strings.

Regards,
Martin


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov  6 09:47:03 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:47:03 GMT
Subject: Tkinter's button
References: <mailman.1036589142.8902.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HX9y9.78546$aL4.2424142@news1.tin.it>

black wrote:

> 
>  thanx but why we could check items by format like this: myButton["state"]
> as I remembered that is with dictionary, while myButton is instance here
> how could we invoke a dictionary with an instance name ? thanx in advance~

Tkinter widgets are mappings (as well as being other things too).  Any
class can define its instances to be mappings if it wants to -- the class 
just needs to implement special methods __getitem__ etc appropriately (or 
their equivalents for C=coded extension types).

Not sure what you mean by "invoke a dictionary with an instance name".


Alex



From mgarcia at cole-switches.com  Tue Nov 26 20:26:33 2002
From: mgarcia at cole-switches.com (Manuel M. Garcia)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:26:33 GMT
Subject: *args and **kwargs
References: <uLUE9.5581$kz4.355569@news2.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <jf68uugus1st5l5vehh368res54ugsulku@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:56:58 GMT, "Dan" <dan at cox.com> wrote:
(edit)
>Re: *args and **kwargs
>I am still pretty new on Python and have been working with it for 5 months.
>I ran across some source code that has these constructs.

These are one of the coolest things in Python!  In version 2 they
added these as the way to both allow arbitrary arguments to a function
and also apply a list and/or dictionary as arguments to a given
function.  (before you had to use the built-in function "apply" to do
this)

The names args and kwargs don't matter, you can call them anything you
wish.  (they stand for "arguments" and "keyword arguments")

Manuel

def f(*args, **kwargs):
    print 'args %r, kwargs %r' % (args, kwargs)

f(1,2,3,apple=4,orange=5)

def g(a, b, c, lemon=None, grape=None):
    print 'a %r, b %r, c %r, lemon %r, grape %r' % (a, b, c, lemon,
grape)

args = [6,7,8]
kwargs = {'lemon':9, 'grape':10}

f(*args, **kwargs)
g(*args, **kwargs)


From dontspam_matthewm at ihug.co.nz  Tue Nov  5 17:36:05 2002
From: dontspam_matthewm at ihug.co.nz (Matthew)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:36:05 +1300
Subject: calldll question
Message-ID: <3DC847D5.60908@ihug.co.nz>

Hi,

I'm trying to call a routine from a win32 dll and due to very slim 
knowledge of python and dlls have meet with unsatisfying results. Are 
there any docs for this pyd other than the c source code? So far I have:-

import calldll     OK

dll = calldll.load_library(<path to dlll.dll>)    OK
func = calldll.get_proc_address(dll, <func name>)    OK

Now how-to execute this func?

Do you use call_foreign_function to execute the func, and if so I can't 
figure out what params to use. 4 are expected and I can only come-up 
with 2! Any help would be brilliant. Thanks alot. matthew.



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Nov  5 12:56:54 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 09:56:54 -0800
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com> <aq6qun$ib4$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211050956.5da2c074@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<aq6qun$ib4$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> Well, they don't count, so if you want to count you have to throw in
> something extra. E.g., you could do this, to insert a delimiter after
> a closing right paren, and then split on the delimiter. Probably not
> wonderfully efficient, and I am just duplicating what you did, except
> the regex separates the chunks for me.
> 
>  >>> import re
>  >>> rx = re.compile(r'([()]|[^()]*)')
>  >>> class Addelim:
>  ...     def __init__(self): self.parens=0
>  ...     def __call__(self, m):
>  ...         s = m.group(1)
>  ...         if s=='(': self.parens+=1
>  ...         if self.parens==1 and s==')':
>  ...             self.parens=0
>  ...             return s+'\x00'
>  ...         if s==')': self.parens -=1
>  ...         return s
>  ...
>  >>> for e in rx.sub(Addelim(),exp).split('\x00'): print e
>  ...
>  (a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)
>  +f(s1)
> 
> Where exp was
>  >>> exp
>  '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

Very interesting approach. But it is even more interesting to compare
its
speed with the simple minded approach. I thought your algorithm was
going to
be the fastest, since you do not split the initial string chars by
chars in Python, but let the regular expression do the job.
However a simple benchmark (not subtracting the overhead times) gives:

parenthesized_group:  130-140 microseconds
Addelim:           620-640 microseconds

The simple minded approach is more than four-five times faster!

I think this is rather instructive. Addelim is particular inefficient
for
long expressions, since it analizes the full expression whereas
parenthesized_group stops at the end of the first parenthesized group.
For fun I run Addelim on exp*100 (i.e. the 100 times the original
string): it takes more than 50000 microseconds whereas
parenthesized_group
is still on 140 microseconds.

It is good to have yet another proof of the dangers involved with
regular
expressions !

Bye,

                                  Michele


From ark at research.att.com  Mon Nov 18 18:37:38 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:37:38 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <yu998yzqa1q5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Richard> It doesn't have ()s, so it ain't two tuples. Easy enough, da?

OK, so you want

        if a, b >= c, d: foo()

to mean the same as

        if a >= b and c >= d: foo()

But

        x = a, b >= c, d

already means the same as

        x = (a, (b >= c), d)

So the string "a, b >= c, d" would have two completely different
meanings, depending on context.

Are you sure that's what you want?

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 28 05:19:03 2002
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:19:03 +0000
Subject: Gnuplot on Windows-Solved
Message-ID: <F328Q6KP9kI5thcubvB000154e9@hotmail.com>

>Hi
>
>In gp_win32.py:
>I have found that just putting the full path in single quotes, e.g.
>
>gnuplot_command = 'c:\program files\wgnuplot\pgnuplot.exe'
>
>does not work (probably because of the space), but that the following works 
>well
>
>gnuplot_command = '"c:\program files\wgnuplot\pgnuplot.exe"'
>
>I am using the newest 1.6 version of gnuplot.py.
>
>There is a Windows binary of Gnuplot 3.8i available in Petr Mikulik's site
>http://www.sci.muni.cz/~mikulik/gnuplot/gp38i-Oct05_2002-winbin.zip
>
>Hope this helps
>Jannie Hofmeyr
>
Thanks Jannie. It did.

I can't believe it was as simple as that. Oh well, I guess it's a sign that 
I've been Unixing for too long when the long filename thing starts to bug my 
programs. Thanks for the link too.

Thanks everybody who put forward solutions.
Paul

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online 
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963




From heafnerj at spam.vnet.net  Mon Nov  4 22:05:33 2002
From: heafnerj at spam.vnet.net (Joe Heafner)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:05:33 -0600
Subject: can't assign value to array element
References: <HoCdnRcDleGnR1igXTWcqg@ctc.net> <aq4uke$2d5$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <KuKdnd1YsKPgqFqgXTWcqg@ctc.net>

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote:
> The solution is to rename the scalar y, maybe to yi or something.
> Same thing with t.
>
After about two hours, I finally figured that out. :-)

> 1. Since you're interested in numerical methods, you're probably
>   interested in speed.  You should put the code inside a function,
>   like this:

>   def main():
>       <your code here>
>   main()
>
I've already done that; I just didn't show that here.

>   This is the single easiest thing you can do to speed up code.
>   Variables defined inside a function are faster than those defined
>   at top level.  (Although for some numerical applications, the
>   numerical time dominates and it won't make too much of a
>   difference.)
>
Thanks for the tip. This code is from a very simple RK4 integrator.

> 2. If you intend to do long simulations (more than a few thousand time
>   steps), you might want to use xrange(0,m,1) instead of
>   range(0,m,1).  The reason is that range allocates a large block of
>   memory (probably about m*4 bytes) and fills it with sequential
>   integers (which might involve more allocation), all before the
>   first iteration.  xrange returns integers on-the-fly each
>   iteration.
Great tip! Thanks!




From bh at intevation.de  Tue Nov 12 06:48:26 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 12:48:26 +0100
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com> <bdb5b58f.0211111438.640885d2@posting.google.com> <aqpc4j$cl5$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <6q7kfjau4f.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <6q3cq7au0l.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>


Following up to myself :)

> Next we get rid of that unnecessary multiple assignment at the beginning
> and use long ints to avoid the overflow error:
> 
> python -c "a = b = 1L; exec('while 1: print a; a,b=b,a+b')"

It shows I used Python 2.1. In 2.2 ints are automatically promoted to
longs if necessary.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/


From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Nov 14 04:14:29 2002
From: maxm at mxm.dk (maxm)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:14:29 +0100
Subject: Visual programming, looking for graphics layer
References: <mailman.1037244320.17937.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD36975.1090400@mxm.dk>

Ian Bicking wrote:

> The hard part is that this sort of layout is fairly hard to do.  Not
> only do you have text inside different sorts of boxes, but an important
> part of the language is that you also have non-text literals (like
> colors and shapes, and even lists may be represented in a graphical
> fashion).  All these need to be manipulatable.


My feeling here is that you are trying to make a map that is in a larger 
scale than what you are trying to map. I am shure there is a nice quote 
from "The Hitchickers Guide...", but none comes to mind.

regards Max M



From ml at knorke.in-berlin.de  Fri Nov 29 09:16:33 2002
From: ml at knorke.in-berlin.de (ml)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:16:33 +0100
Subject: Parser building in Python
Message-ID: <20021129141633.GB29515@k6.in-berlin.de>

Hi,

I like to write a parser in Python.  The language itself is
not LALR(1), but I could do some tricks to make it LALR(1).
What are the best tools to write lexers and parsers in
Python?  Maybe sth. similar to ANTLR?

Thanks in advance!




From benalan at cs.bu.edu  Wed Nov  6 17:27:28 2002
From: benalan at cs.bu.edu (Ben Wiedermann)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 14:27:28 -0800
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <m27kfsm2x8.fsf@python.net> <aq8qbh$ik0$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1036539728.6381.python-list@python.org> <ZI6y9.77441$aL4.2400685@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036590550.21817.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f@posting.google.com>

"Chris Gonnerman" <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036590550.21817.python-list at python.org>...

> Textbooks aren't designed to be entertaining, true; but frankly
> I found it painful to read in the final form.  The content isn't
> the first thing one notices about a book; rather it's the 
> presentation (cover, art, paper, etc.)

I was one of the authors of the Deitel book; but just to be clear: I
am speaking as a Python evangelist. I am not speaking for any of my
coauthors or for my employer. That being said...

One of the major goals for the book was to try to push Python down
into CS1 courses, where I believe it deserves far more consideration
than it currently receives. Our hope was that the book would
demonstrate to professors how well suited Python is as a first
programming language *and* how easy it is for novice programmers to
create more complex applications (e.g., GUI, multimedia, etc.).

However, I've noticed that most of the post-publication criticism of
the book has focused on issues like presentation, art, etc. It's not
my job to dispute these claims. I personally believe that an author
should stay out of subjective discussions of his book, once that book
has been published. But I still very much believe in the promise of
Python in the university. And because the Deitel book is the only
college textbook of which I am aware, I wanted to get some feedback on
what would make a more successful Python textbook. How high does
presentation rank when considering a book? Are there examples of other
college textbooks that people think do an excellent job in the
presentation department? What kinds of materials can we (as a
community) produce to get schools to consider and adopt Python as a
first programming language? Any other thoughts on Python in the
university?


From nas at python.ca  Sun Nov 17 16:51:18 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:51:18 -0800
Subject: popkey() method for dictionaries?
In-Reply-To: <ar8rge$rer$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
References: <ar7i50$3ib$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <f9068f8e.0211170458.541bfeba@posting.google.com> <ar8rge$rer$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <20021117215118.GA5741@glacier.arctrix.com>

Fernando P?rez wrote:
> I'd like to hear from one of the powers-that-be on this one. Or should a SF 
> bug be filed against it?

It seems like an oversight.  Here's the original patch:

  http://sf.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=305470&func=detail&aid=539949

Feel free to file a bug.  Cheers,

  Neil



From acalcium at aol.com  Thu Nov  7 19:23:32 2002
From: acalcium at aol.com (ACalcium)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 00:23:32 GMT
Subject: OT: Abbreviations (was Re: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book))
References: <slrnasl1dr.3cj.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20021107192332.29263.00003648@mb-mg.aol.com>

>> Why can u teach this in CS2 when they learn
>
>The word is "you", not "u".
>
>You may not know this yet, but the rest of the Internet is *nothing*
>like AOL. We prefer complete English words here, and "cute"

[much deleted]
Just concentrate and follow the thread, Rob.


From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 23:10:04 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:10:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
In-Reply-To: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20021109041004.81828.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com>

> The first stumbling block is that the books offer
> examples of C code which don't seem to
> have a main(). My compilers don't care for that too
> much. I took a quick look at SWIG, but
> to be honest, I didn't understand how to use it.
> Again, I need the high level concept.
> 
 Well, we're working at Swig and I should say it's a
neat thing to what you are saying here. SWIG just
creates Python codes automatically by collecting
information from C header files(thus the main()
doesn't matter). 
Actually, the codes written in high-level
languages,say, Python,Perl or others, now take over
the responsibility of main() function in driving the
program logic and control. I'm a newbie to Python so I
can't give you more suggestions about that. But if you
want to understand SWIG more, I might be helpful
somehow.



=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
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http://launch.yahoo.com/u2



From gminick at hacker.pl  Sun Nov 24 04:33:15 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:33:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Newbie Q on searching lists
References: <3DDF1673.4020203@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrnau1kmc.fb.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Sat, 23 Nov 2002 05:45:55 GMT, Kenny Tilton napisa?(a):
> I see the index method on lists throws an error if the element sought is 
> not found. I was hoping it would return None.
Yes, you're right, but it's easy to walk around:

def ind(list, arg):
    if arg in list:
       return list.index(arg)
    else:
       return 'None'

aList = [1, 'a', 2, 'b']

ind(a,'b') => 3
ind(a,7)   => 'None'

or even in one liner:

((c in a and (a.index(c),)) or ('None',))[0]

for example:

[((c in a and (a.index(c),)) or ('None',))[0] for c in ['b',6]]

returns: [3, 'None']

HTH.

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From dkwolfe at pacbell.net  Fri Nov 22 20:44:03 2002
From: dkwolfe at pacbell.net (Dan Wolfe)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 17:44:03 -0800
Subject: Zope on MacOs X trobleshooting
References: <e1119919.0211211217.1875e02a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <257c96b0.0211221744.60ff122@posting.google.com>

catonano at inwind.it wrote in message news:<e1119919.0211211217.1875e02a at posting.google.com>...

> [Catonano:~] adri% hostname
> Catonano.local.
> [Catonano:~] adri% 
> 
> Host not found? What doeas it mean?

'Catonano.local.' is a Rendezvous address.  It appears that you were
NOT connected to a network when you tried to install and therefore
your Macintosh is using the default Rendezvous address.

More likely that not, Zope doesn't understand that the hostname may
change between launches where in one instance you were connected to
the net and the next you are not.

- Dan


From bkc at Murkworks.com  Wed Nov 13 10:21:27 2002
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:21:27 -0500
Subject: OpenLDAP slapd backend for Python (back-python) ?? 
Message-ID: <3dd26b1b_5@goliath.newsgroups.com>

I'm looking for a python backend to OpenLDAP slapd.

I see that Andy Dustman was going to write one back in 1999, but I can't
find out any information about it.. I tried sending him email but perhaps I
don't have the correct address.

So .. does anyone have a back-python for slapd?

--
Novell DeveloperNet Sysop #5

_




-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov 30 05:54:08 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 02:54:08 -0800
Subject: Newbie Question: Aborting a Python script
References: <MPG.1852449355ffd522989685@news.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3DE898D0.5264B349@alcyone.com>

Tom Nunamaker wrote:

> How do you stop a script during execution?  Do I have to throw an
> error
> like a divide by zero?  I didn't see any abort, stop, halt, etc type
> of
> function.

	sys.exit()

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The people are to be taken in very small doses.
\__/ Ralph Waldo Emerson
    WebVal / http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/webval/
 URL scanner, maintainer, and validator in Python.


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Tue Nov 19 12:14:43 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:14:43 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com>


Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Another related problem is that Common Lisp doesn't scale well. It is a big
> and complex language and that's it. While this might be a big productivity win
> for an experienced developer who can leverage a large collection of well
> thought out standard functions, it makes it a bad choice for many other
> scenarios (if you knew neight CL nor python, would you rather have your
> application scripted in python or CL?). 

Puzzled. "scale well" to me means "what happens when you try to use it 
for a big project" or possibly a small project with big runtime resource 
requirements. CL is great at either, precisely because it can do a lot.

In your final query, it sounds like you mean can it scale beyond the 
expert few. If so, I think CL is very approachable (easy to get going 
productively very quickly) and then one just keeps on learning more and 
more cool stuff because it is so rich.

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From jon at csh.rit.edu  Sat Nov 16 20:13:24 2002
From: jon at csh.rit.edu (Jon Parise)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:13:24 -0500
Subject: Calling local functions from the C API
In-Reply-To: <m3n0o92lw1.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1037483907.16178.python-list@python.org> <m3n0o92lw1.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20021117011324.GB21296@csh.rit.edu>

On Sat, Nov 16, 2002 at 11:24:46PM +0100, Martin v. Loewis wrote:

> Jon Parise <jon at csh.rit.edu> writes:
> 
> > I'm familiar with calling functions using PyObject_CallObject().
> > I generally use PyImport_ImportModule() to import a callable object
> > from some module before executing it.
> > 
> > However, I'm unclear as to how to go about getting a callable object
> > from the current local scope (i.e. not from a named module).
> > 
> > Help, please. =)
> 
> By "local scope", do you mean as in "local variable"? I.e. you do
> 
> def foo():
>   def bar()
>     pass
>   myext.somefunc()
> 
> and then you want the somefunc, which is implemented in C, to access
> bar??? That isn't supported. It is possible, but you will have to read
> the source yourself to find out how to do it.
> 
> Instead, I recommend that you do
> 
>   myext.somefunc(bar)
> 
> instead, i.e. passing the callable as an argument to the extension.

I think that's roughly what I'm saying.  For example:

def SomeFunction():
    pass

... gets evaluated by PyRun_RunString().  Later on, I'd like to call
SomeFunction from C (embedded Python interpreter).

Is that still not possible without playing with stack frames and such?

-- 
Jon Parise (jon at csh.rit.edu)  ::  http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/



From shalehperry at attbi.com  Fri Nov  1 16:48:51 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:48:51 -0800
Subject: HTTP 1.0 or 1.1 ?
In-Reply-To: <3DC30234.13843.60D71C2@localhost>
References: <3DC30234.13843.60D71C2@localhost>
Message-ID: <200211011348.51589.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On Friday 01 November 2002 13:37, A wrote:
>
>
> Does it mean I can not get headers through HTTP 1.0 ???
> And what does self.reply = -1  mean?
>

according to the code shipped with python 2.2 (all i have installed) 
getreply() returns -1, e.line, None if it is unable to get the real response 
from the server.

The module you are using is all Python code, go give it a peak.



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 21 12:41:16 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:41:16 -0700
Subject: Teaching numerics with Python
References: <arg9lu$85u$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <arj5rt$m5u$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Antti Rasila wrote:

> 2) ..if some course material and ready program files are available,
> which we could use as building blocks of our course?
> 

You may want to look at IPython: http://www-hep.colorado.edu/~fperez/ipython

I wrote it specifically to do interactive python work for scientific computing 
and data analysis. It's a drop-in replacement for the interactive python 
shell, but adds a bunch of features inspired by Mathematica, IDL and the 
like.

It also wraps and enhances the Gnuplot.py interface. Here's a 'screenshot' of 
the steps to make a simple plot:

[~]> ipython -profile numeric
Python 2.2 (#1, Feb 24 2002, 16:21:58)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

IPython 0.2.14pre48 -- An enhanced Interactive Python.
?       -> Introduction to IPython's features.
@magic  -> Information about IPython's 'magic' @ functions.
help    -> Python's own help system.
object? -> Details about 'object'. ?object also works, ?? prints more.

IPython profile: numeric

*** Type `gphelp` for help on the Gnuplot integration features.

In [1]: x=frange(0,2*pi,npts=100)

In [2]: y=sin(x)

# this plots y vs an integer index through gnuplot. Note the parentheses get
# automatically added to function calls:
In [3]: plot y
------> plot(y)

# this plots y vs x:
In [4]: plot x,y
------> plot(x,y)

# this makes an eps file of the same y vs x plot:
In [5]: plot x,y,filename='test.eps'
------> plot(x,y,filename='test.eps')


Feel free to contact me at fperez[AT]colorado.edu if you have any questions.

Cheers,

f.


From blackprogramming at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  4 22:46:43 2002
From: blackprogramming at yahoo.com (black)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:46:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Tkinter's button
Message-ID: <20021105034643.45380.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com>


Howdy~

I have a button create with this line:
import Tkintertk=Tkinter.Tk()button=Tkinter.Button(tk)
and I found we could add some "property" with this format:
button["text"]="Howdy"
is that a hint that all buttons have a predifined dictionary ? and how to check all members ? I searched tutorial about Tkinter but found nothing. 

Thanx in advance~



---------------------------------
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From ngterry2000 at yahoo.com.hk  Wed Nov 13 11:28:37 2002
From: ngterry2000 at yahoo.com.hk (=?big5?q?Terence=20Ng?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:28:37 +0800 (CST)
Subject: HTML email marketing tool
In-Reply-To: <crv3tuob7t67r3llmo0rujn36tm9jfs03q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20021113162837.26089.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com>

I do not really know Python.  How do you use smtplib
to send HTML email?  I do not need to hook up to a web
site for hits and removals.  Actually, I expect my
prospects are expecting my email.

Terence

 --- Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> ??????>
Terence Ng <ngterry2000 at yahoo.com.hk> wrote:
> 
> >I know what a spammer do.  My situation is that: 
> My
> >company has just finished an electronics fair, and
> >received a lot of business cards asking for
> quotation,
> >etc.  I am not asking for a heavy weight mailing
> list
> >server.  There is already a lot on the internet. 
> This
> >is a very common business practice.  I just want to
> be
> >smart sending the emails to this list instead of
> >sending the emails one by one.
> 
> There ARE legitimate reasons for this kind of
> mailing list.
> 
> I'm not sure what part of this you need help with. 
> You posted to the
> comp.lang.python newsgroup; do you know Python?  Do
> you already know how to
> fetch the addresses out of MySQL?
> 
> I would create a "template" of the e-mail, looking
> exactly the way I wanted
> it to look, then just use smtplib.sendmail to send
> the message.  It isn't
> that hard.  IIS will not be involved.
> 
> You will need an SMTP server to pump the message
> through.  Unless you're
> running one in house, you'll have to make sure your
> ISP allows you to do
> this.  Do you have to hook up to a web site for hits
> and removals?
> --
> - Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
>   Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

_________________________________________________________
??(???)????(???)??????(???)...
Over 800 latest ringtones, only on Yahoo!
http://ringtone.yahoo.com.hk



From sdati at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  6 10:48:48 2002
From: sdati at hotmail.com (Steve Davis)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 07:48:48 -0800
Subject: Tkinter / Tcl callbacks, and return -code error
References: <1527bafc.0211050829.1ba81bb1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036514646.31698.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1527bafc.0211060748.8afb9f8@posting.google.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036514646.31698.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> It looks like raising an exception in a Python function called from TCL
> should end up returning TCL_ERROR.  It appears that there's an
> "adderrorinfo" method as well.
> 

Jeff,  

Thanks for the thought.  Yes, it looks like raising an exception
should work, but my experience seems to counter this.  First thing I
tried was the obvious (return 0 or 1, or "0" or "1").  That didn't do
it, so then I tried raising various exceptions.  This works, sort of. 
The exception doesn't seem to be caught immediately, so multiple
exceptions get raised (once each time the callback is called), and
then propagated back, eventually hitting my call to mainloop().

Fortunately, python is cool, and lets me do this (first time I'd ever
noticed this example in the tutorial!)

try:
    raise ProgressException, "Cancelled"
except ProgressException:
    # Already raised - just pass it on
    raise

Unfortunately, this doesn't actually work (probably timing issues -
the final callback call is being made after the exception(s) is
caught?)

Unfortunately, it is EXTREMELY slow to raise this exception within the
callback - I don't know what's going on (something with the event
loop, it seems), but it's something bad.  Fortunately, by modifying
tkinter's register() function (and its helper class) slightly, I can
get acceptable performance.  I just have to raise the exception within
the helper class, something like this:

    def __call__(self, *args):
        result = apply(self.func, args)
            
        if not result:
            raise ProgressException, "Cancelled"

        return result

And then I have a really ugly hack to catch the spurious exceptions
that make it through:

    try:
        while root.winfo_exists():
            try:
                root.mainloop()
            except ProgressException, e:
                print e
    except TclError:
        pass

Seems like there must be a better way...

Steve


From mrq at for.mat.bham.ac.uk  Thu Nov 28 09:55:43 2002
From: mrq at for.mat.bham.ac.uk (Martyn Quick)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:55:43 +0000
Subject: importing question ?
In-Reply-To: <3de62963$0$214$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
References: <3de62963$0$214$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0211281453360.24815-100000@for.mat>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Jonas Geiregat wrote:

>  >>> import classes
>  >>> a = veryBigSnake()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> NameError: name 'veryBigSnake' is not defined
>  >>> from classes import *
>  >>> a = veryBigSnake()
> 
> why doesn't the first import work ?
> and the second does
> 
> and what is the difference between those two ?

With the first you are importing the command in the form
classes.veryBigSnake, so the following would work:

import classes
a = classes.veryBigSnake()

and would give the same as

from classes import *
a = veryBigSnake()

The difference is that the second hides where veryBigSnake comes from and
can cause confusion if you were to change the meaning of the function in
the middle of your code.  With the first you're less likely to do this.

Experts can explain this in the proper technical language better than I
can.  ;-)

Cheers,
Martyn

--------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Martyn Quick  (Research Fellow in Pure Mathematics)
University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK.
http://www.mat.bham.ac.uk/M.R.Quick/



From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Sat Nov 30 12:59:53 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 30 Nov 2002 17:59:53 GMT
Subject: Python classes: how to find the name of (potential) parent class?
References: <3DE8F572.6080106@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <slrnauhv4p.oo.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Pierre Rouleau wrote:
> Is it possible to find, at run time, what are the parent class of a 
> given Python class?

Yes, via the __bases__ attribute of the class in question.

-- Gerhard


From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Nov 18 18:33:50 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:33:50 +0100
Subject: Perl to python convertor
In-Reply-To: =?us-ascii?Q?=3C3dd94531$1=40news=2Emt=2Enet=2Emk=3E=3B_from_=3D=3Fiso-8?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?859-5=3FQ=3F=3DDF=3DD5=3DDD=3DD3=3DE3=3DD8=3DDD=3DD8=3DE1?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?=3DE2=3DD0=3F=3D=40=3D=3Fiso-8859-5=3FQ=3F=3DDC=3DD0=3DD8?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?=3DDB=3F=3D=2E=3D=3Fiso-8859-5=3FQ=3F=3DDD=3DD5=3DE2=3F=3D?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?=2E=3D=3Fiso-8859-5=3FQ=3F=3DDC=3DDA=3F=3D=2Etrillke=2Enet_?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?on_Mon=2C_Nov_18=2C_2002_at_08:52:33PM_+0100?=
References: <3dd94531$1@news.mt.net.mk>
Message-ID: <20021119003350.A11257@prim.han.de>

?????? ?. wrote:
> Is there such a beast, 
> I have a perl module for a protocol that's not supported in Python
> (SMPP). I think it doesn't use much more than plain Perl but I'm not a
> perl expert.

no, i don't think there is something that would work for you. 
You might like to search the mailing list archives for more
discussion about this. 

    holger

P.S.: you email and everything came as a series of ???



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov  8 19:26:10 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 00:26:10 GMT
Subject: Virtual Filesystem (was: Adding ftputil to the Python distribution?)
References: <aq6kpl$td1$1@news.online.de> <mailman.1036573573.23006.python-list@python.org> <f199e60.0211070207.5ed58c25@posting.google.com> <slrnasle8i.v6v.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org> <f199e60.0211080120.5818779b@posting.google.com> <aqgi7e$j67$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnasnmo7.3qd.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>
Message-ID: <aqhkn2$glu$0@216.39.172.122>

On 8 Nov 2002 10:40:56 -0500, Jacob Smullyan <smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org> wrote:

>In article <aqgi7e$j67$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter wrote:
>> On 8 Nov 2002 01:20:16 -0800, stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl) wrote:
>>> I'd really like to see a vfs in the standard
>>>python distribution.
>> I too. But I believe any given implementation will implicitly reflect
>> conventions with respect to operations in abstract name space, and I think
>> that ought to be laid out in a PEP before adopting any particular implementation.
>>
>> Otherwise there is likely to be special limitations, e.g., not being able
>> to delegate parsing of path tails to other vfs's mounted within the first, etc.
>
>The Skunk vfs actually does do that on demand, but not automatically,
>as I believe both gnome-vfs and emacs will do when it finds an archive
>file.  I simply didn't need or want that behavior, but I recognize of
>course that a general purpose vfs should have that ability.  The vfs
>cited was written to satisfy some immediate needs, with a little extra
>generality thrown in around the periphery; it was not designed with a
>view towards solving every problem that a vfs might solve, but might
>be suggestive to someone working on a more ambitious solution.
>
>> The vfs above is very close to what I was talking about recently. But not
>> exactly, and not quite from the same POV. And any discussion of general
>> or genericized (v)file access will garner reminders that lisp has a lot
>> of prior art ;-)
>
>I'd be interested if you could enlarge a little on the subject of LISP
>genericized file access, at least to the point of providing clues for
>how a Lisp neophyte might research it.  

The smiley was actually meant for Paul Foley (whose intercession I was
anticipating ;-) and who can answer that much better than I.
E.g., a reference he supplied:

    http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/19_a.htm

directing attention to "Logical Pathnames" in particular.

You can follow links from there to any part of the spec. "Common Lisp: The Language"
by Guy Steele published by Digital Press (at least my '85 copy) is a solid dead-tree
reference, or was.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From johs+n at ifi.uio.no  Sat Nov  9 11:50:59 2002
From: johs+n at ifi.uio.no (Johannes =?iso-8859-1?q?Gr=F8dem?=)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 17:50:59 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <lzfzua3cwc.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>

* anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor):

> A computer program has to determine what a certain input means before
> it can produce output. [...]

You're trolling, right?

-- 
Johannes Gr?dem <OpenPGP: 5055654C>


From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Thu Nov 28 15:52:15 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 21:52:15 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <2QOdneEtJvDR6HugXTWcqw@comcast.com>; from tjreedy@udel.edu on Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 02:58:31PM -0500
References: <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE040DF.EACC7D3A@kolumbus.fi> <yfsbs4ebhnl.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE2AEFE.BF188406@kolumbus.fi> <3DE2B626.6000009@nyc.rr.com> <uu7nuvsbgno1c7@news.supernews.com> <mailman.1038438422.29267.python-list@python.org> <3DE57D7B.D4A80CE8@alcyone.com> <mailman.1038507764.1441.python-list@python.org> <2QOdneEtJvDR6HugXTWcqw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20021128215215.W11257@prim.han.de>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> "holger > But who would use yield as an identifier name, anyway?
> 
> Someone writing a program to calculate bond yields, for instance.
> TJR

hi terry,

thanks for the answer although my question wasn't exactly serious.
sorry for not making this obvious enough (only my sig was ':-)').

  holger



From duncan at rcp.co.uk  Tue Nov 26 06:04:36 2002
From: duncan at rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:04:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no> <arsqsd$3j5$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <aruf6o$bd7$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <Xns92D2652D276CAduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <arvjdu$4nk$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns92D271C5EEE12duncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote in news:arvjdu$4nk$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu:

>> If you have more than one or two patterns, then you should really be
>> thinking about a loop rather than a long list of if statements: 
>> 
>> PATTERNS = [
>>  (regex1, action1), (regex2, action2), # ...
>> ]
>> 
>> for regex, action in PATTERNS:
>>    match = regex.match(string)
>>    if match:
>>        action(match)
>>        break
>> 
>> I don't see any need for assignment in an 'if' here.
> 
> Other people often clamor for assignment if here, because the way you
> did is an unnatural and circumlocative way to do something most
> people, myself included, want to do as a sequential piece of code.
> 

Note that I did say 'If you have more than one or two patterns'.
If you do have several patterns, then removing the duplication
seems to me to be a good thing and not at all circumlocutory
(assuming that was the word you meant).
Obviously you wouldn't use a loop in all situations.

If I started off with a piece of code that consisted of a long chain of
if statements, then whether or not it is amenable to refactoring as a
loop, I would certainly want to refactor it as something else: I tend to
the school of thought that likes short methods.

Each to his own though, it would be a boring world if we all wrote
identical code. 


From tomas.krmela at pvt.cz  Fri Nov  8 03:45:02 2002
From: tomas.krmela at pvt.cz (Tomas Krmela)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 00:45:02 -0800
Subject: Run python scrypt without python ,
Message-ID: <fd44b299.0211080045.66477592@posting.google.com>

Hello  all

i'm need ran my own script on server of my company.
server is high secured and our root not installed python.

exist any way to  ran python's script without interpretr 
server is linux


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Nov 29 16:09:04 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:09:04 -0600
Subject: catch output of threads
In-Reply-To: <87of88723i.fsf@flibuste.net>
References: <87of88723i.fsf@flibuste.net>
Message-ID: <20021129150853.A6957@unpythonic.net>

You can make sys.stdout an object which uses thread.get_ident() to do
"something special" with data written depending on what thread wrote it.

"ThreadedOutputThing" just prefixes all lines of output with the
thread ID.  "ThreadedOuputThing2" creates files that contain the PID
and TID.  TOT2 keeps a cache of open file objects, but never has more
than ten open at once.

You could do other things, depending on your needs.

Jeff

import sys, thread, time, os

class ThreadedOutputThing:
    def __init__(self, f = sys.stdout):
        self.f = f

    def write(self, s):
        i = thread.get_ident()
        print >>self.f, "Thread %5d: %r" % (i, s)

class ThreadedOutputThing2:
    def __init__(self, b = "%d-%%d.out" % os.getpid(), of="a"):
        self.b = b
        self.of = of
        self.d = {}

    def write(self, s):
        i = thread.get_ident()
        d = self.d
        if not d.has_key(i):
            if len(d) > 10:
                d.popitem()[1].close()
            d[i] = open(self.b % i, self.of)
        d[i].write(s)

def f():
    print "In function f, thread %d" % thread.get_ident()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    #sys.stdout = ThreadedOutputThing()
    sys.stdout = ThreadedOutputThing2()
    thread.start_new_thread(f, ())
    thread.start_new_thread(f, ())
    thread.start_new_thread(f, ())
    time.sleep(1)



From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Nov 14 18:25:50 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:25:50 -0600
Subject: Open and reading a file...
In-Reply-To: <g178tu0ml23tjvu7rlkqr3emp34d8hbgpq@4ax.com> ("Manuel M.
 Garcia"'s message of "Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:01:41 GMT")
References: <clUA9.14453$md7.1204247@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<slrnat8a11.rng.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
	<g178tu0ml23tjvu7rlkqr3emp34d8hbgpq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m2vg2zohs1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Manuel" == Manuel M Garcia <mgarcia at cole-switches.com> writes:

    Manuel> Now I feel ashamed for being a smartass.

Good.  Now go read 10 posts on comp.lang.c++ and write 3 perl
scripts before coming back out to play.

John Hunter



From hellprout at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 21 03:22:35 2002
From: hellprout at yahoo.com (hellprout)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 00:22:35 -0800
Subject: wxpython draw
Message-ID: <5b8834c2.0211210022.57d8406b@posting.google.com>

hi i'm french , i just want to find the way to draw something with
wxpython , i don't know what library used ....
i have a wxpanel , i want to see a draw when i click on a button ... 
do i take the same way like tkinter ?

thanks for your help 

nicolas


From wilk-spamout at flibuste.net  Wed Nov 27 04:51:22 2002
From: wilk-spamout at flibuste.net (William)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 10:51:22 +0100
Subject: Browser differences Mozilla v IE
References: <d232c5e.0211270135.564df238@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87isyj8hnp.fsf@flibuste.net>

chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk (Chris Lyon) writes:

> I've been developing CGI python scripts for generating web pages which
> are served from IIS. I've been viewing them from IE successfully for
> sometime now.
> I've just downloaded and installed Mozilla and when I try to run the
> same pages from Mozilla it trys to download them and run them in a DOS
> window.
>  I'm rateh confused can anyone shed any light on where I should be
> tweaking to sort this out?

look at your content-type, it must be
print "Content-Type: text/html"
print

print "the data of your page..."

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 27 21:48:32 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:48:32 +1300
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org> <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3DE44D27.3030904@something.invalid> <mailman.1038382057.30173.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE58400.8000503@something.invalid>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:

> 
>   reduce = lambda func, seq:
>            [(l.append(func(l[i],seq[i])),l[-1])
>                            for l in [[init]]
>                            for i in range(len(seq))][-1][1]
> 
> Now you've seen one :-).


Um... well, what I meant was, nobody's proposed
a special syntax for it that's significantly
better than what we've got already.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Nov 22 19:35:22 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:35:22 -0800
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
In-Reply-To: <15838.51593.296849.174022@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <200211222342.PAA10255@mail.arc.nasa.gov> <15838.51593.296849.174022@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <200211230035.QAA01140@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Friday 22 November 2002 16:19, Skip Montanaro wrote:

> Wouldn't it be better to accumulate all your x's in a list and call max
> once at the end:
>
>     xlist = []
>     for -whatever-:
>         xlist.append(big_hairy_calc)
>     xMax = max(xlist)

The original posted code (by Eric Brunel) seemed to indicate that the current 
xMax value might be needed in the loop (a "running max").  If that is not a 
requirement, then your method works quite well (for tractable list sizes).

-- 
Bay Area Python Interest Group - http://www.baypiggies.net/

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From djc at object-craft.com.au  Sat Nov 30 22:14:38 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 01 Dec 2002 14:14:38 +1100
Subject: Threading problems at program exit
In-Reply-To: <20021130204610.A26471@unpythonic.net>
References: <m3hee02arn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
	<3de8931f$0$75603$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>
	<m37keuptwo.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
	<20021130204610.A26471@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <m38yzaqvkx.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

> On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 09:36:07AM +1100, Dave Cole wrote:
> 
> > Now the problem is that even though the database connection can be
> > shared between threads it can only support a single query in
> > flight at a time.  This means that while a cursor is fetching
> > results over a Connection I need the Cursor to maintain a lock on
> > the Connection.  I do not have any control over the structure of
> > the client code which is using the Cursor.
> 
> So you must support even the following code, right (two queries in flight
> in the same thread)?
> 
>     c1 = db.cursor()
>     c2 = db.cursor()
>     c1.execute(QUERY1)
>     while 1:
>         row1 = c1.fetchone()
>         if not row1: break
> 
>         c2.execute(QUERY2)
>         while 1:
>             row2 = c2.fetchone()
>             if not row2: break
>             # do something with (row1, row2)        
> 
> If you invent some kind of scheme that involves putting a lock that
> prevents c1 and c2 from being "in a query" at the same time, won't
> this single-threaded code deadlock?

Yes it will deadlock.

The limitations of the feature in a single thread do not prevent it
from being extremely useful in a multi-threaded environment.

If you want to provide a scalable server which does the same query
for a large number of "simultaneous" clients, then the sharing of
connections between threads is very useful.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au




From newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Nov 10 16:20:20 2002
From: newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk (Newt)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:20:20 GMT
Subject: Classes
Message-ID: <o4Az9.957$nH7.7699611@news-text.cableinet.net>

Hi,

I've got a question (or possible more than one) on classes that I need some
help with:

I'm putting together an application that uses Tkinter for the GUI. At the
moment I'm using separate classes for each of the screens I want to use. Is
this the usual way of doing it?

I've also added a __init__ to each class, so that it can call a do_widgets
routine (in the class) which creates and places all the widgets. Is this the
ususal way?

If I wanted to pass some values into my class how do I change the __init__
to accept the input? [I suppose part of the problem is because I'm calling
the class with the command ClassName(self) ]

Is the correct way to do this:
    in the class module, get the __init__ to do not very much, and then call
the do_widgets routine?

Thanks,

Newt






From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sun Nov 24 22:52:06 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:52:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sockets and encryption
In-Reply-To: <8hi2uuguh0l0jlmrao1fjshle68op1kt4s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211241944360.2910-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Paul Nilsson wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:49:27 -0500, an infinite amount of monkeys
> hijacked the computer of Michael Stenner <mstenner at phy.duke.edu> and
> wrote:
> 
> 
> >Would SSL work for you?  That's basically made to do exactly what you
> >describe, no?
> 
> Doesn't ssl involve getting a certificate?

Not necessarily - you can create your own certificate authority and have 
it issue a certificate for you. On the client side there's a one-line API 
call to allow certificates from non-authoritative sources.

> I'm also not sure of other restraints that may be present, such as non
> ascii data.

Not sure what you mean here - it's just a stream of bytes so there's no 
concept of ASCII or non-ASCII.

> I'd rather just open a socket and push a raw bytestream
> without having to conform to a standard :)

Yup. You have complete flexibility to do whatever suits you best, but 
obviously you'll have to do at least a _tiny_ bit more work to add in 
security - in this case it's mostly just setup work.

I've been using M2Crypto and have found that it works pretty well for my 
needs. I spent about half an hour reading through the docs and setting up, 
and another half hour taking a part one of the examples and wrapping the 
weird stuff in a module so I don't have to think about it anymore. A one 
hour investment for basic SSL support is IMO terrific! :)

-Dave




From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Nov  7 15:37:44 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:37:44 -0500
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in
 Python 2.4 and up
In-Reply-To: <aqehf5$27i$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHKECODOAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Bengt Richter]
> Ok, sorry, does
>      BIT31 = 1L<<31
> work?

Yes, and means exactly the same thing as 0x80000000L.  Both are identical in
respect of what the OP doesn't like about them too (that accepting trailing
'L' is slated to be removed in Python 3).




From Paul.Casteels at ua.ac.be  Mon Nov  4 13:55:41 2002
From: Paul.Casteels at ua.ac.be (Paul.Casteels at ua.ac.be)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 19:55:41 +0100
Subject: win32com / Dispatch
Message-ID: <3dc6c2ad@news.uia.ac.be>

 When I use win32com.client.Dispatch I get a CDispatch object with an
oleobj inside and I have direct access to all methods/attributes.
 How can I obtain the same result when I get the IDispatch pointer from
an external application (as an argument from another COM method).
 The type of this pointer is PyIDispatch but I am unable to invoke any
methods on it.

-- 

Paul Casteels		Paul.Casteels at ua.ac.be	Tel: +32.3.8202455
						Fax: +32.3.8202470
University of Antwerp	Dpt.Physics
Universiteitsplein 1
B-2610 Wilrijk
Belgium


From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Mon Nov  4 16:33:58 2002
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:33:58 -0800
Subject: Windows size problem with Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <Xns92BB14C2DBFA1roblochefrst@213.228.0.136>
References: <Xns92BB14C2DBFA1roblochefrst@213.228.0.136>
Message-ID: <200211042133.NAA19468@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

On Saturday 02 November 2002 17:02, Rodolphe wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> I wrote three progs in Python/Tkinter and they all work very well
> _separatly_. I said separatly because if one of them is running and if
> I try to run another one, its window is reduced to a little square and
> I only can see a little bit of the top left of the GUI.

Can you post a short, self contained example of the code?  Ideally, such that 
I can run it three times concurrently to see the effect?  Also, what kind of 
system are you running it on (windows, Linux, etc.  what window manager?)

-- 

Chad Netzer
cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 17 07:57:55 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 12:57:55 GMT
Subject: wrapping all class methods
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOMEOOENAA.marklists@mceahern.com> <mailman.1037385864.30209.python-list@python.org> <pan.2002.11.16.12.39.49.262808.1346@club-internet.fr> <7HAfWUAhuj19EwTr@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <ar61rk$gun$0@216.39.172.122> <mPaY0KAJ0r19EwQU@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <ar6jkk$17g$0@216.39.172.122> <FzhQLIAnX319Ew28@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ar83oj$fpu$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:56:39 +0000, Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <ar6jkk$17g$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net>
>writes
>......
>>>..... no I hadn't used that, but then I don't want a trace I want to
>>>discover which tracebacks are being detected and trapped.
>>
>>I thought you might be able to do a silent trace and see the exceptions
>>before they're "trapped". (The hook doesn't do any output or force you to.
>>You choose what to do if/when you see something of interest).
>>
>
>this is probably a good way to go as it is non-invasive, but it's a new
>technology for me so I'd need to wrap my decreasing neurones around it
>before use.
>
>The wrapping approach applies itself to all classes and all method
>members, but in my example I see base class methods are also being
>wrapped which may or may not be desired.
>
>I suppose a global tracefunc could check at each 'call' whether the
>currently entered scope is wanted and then set a local trace.
>
Yes. Which also implies that you need a dictionary of interesting scopes
to check, or some I-don't-know-what other fast way of checking.

>I wonder how fast this is compared to the wrapping approach.
>
Probably slow. I typed help(i_forgot_what) with tracewatch on, and it
sure slowed that down quite noticeably. I guess every function/method call
is becoming two at least, so even if my scope-of-interest check is fast and
says no, there's still the call overhead all over the place.

So if you have real time considerations at all, it's probably too slow.

I don't want to lead you down the garden path. I have just done enough
to get the result you saw plus being able to monitor name bindings in
scopes of interest. But the docs I found were sparse, so I'm not sure
how solid a ground I've built on. IOW, I'm not sure **exactly** how what I
did is working. I haven't gotten back to digging. I guess I won't feel like
I have a grip until I've looked at the code that implements the hook calls.

Anyway, I just wanted to offer detour route to consider if you got stuck.
If you're not stuck, drive on ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Mon Nov 11 05:45:29 2002
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:45:29 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjku8$njc$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3DCE003C.9080505@mindspring.com> <aqlntp$66p$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <gknmqa.hc4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqn83f$gou$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <7h3lm402zq5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3dcf8a5b$0$12470$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

"Michael Hudson" <mwh at python.net> wrote:
> Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> writes:
> > Which is kind of funny.  You'd expect the Data Register to point to
> > the nth item in the list, and Address Register to point to the next
> > cons cell.  But the reverse is true.
> 
> I think the d in cdr stands (stood) for decrement, not data.  But the
> web seems confused on the issue.  

You are right.  John McCarthy writes
(http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/history/lisp/node2.html):

"The first problem was how to do list structure in the IBM 704. This
computer has a 36 bit word, and two 15 bit parts, called the address
and decrement, [...]"

- Anders




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Nov 28 04:14:12 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 10:14:12 +0100
Subject: Xml.Sax.Saxutils.escape() reverse ?
References: <mailman.1038415360.14956.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3fztmys2j.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Graeme Longman <glongman at ilangua.com> writes:

> Does anyone know how to achieve the opposite of the escape method in
> Xml.Sax.Saxutils ?
> 
> I've managed to escape my data so that I don't get a 'not well-formed'
> error but I don't know to get my data back into it's original form after
> the xml has done it's stuff.

You should parse the XML file, using an XML parser.

Regards,
Martin


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 25 05:53:36 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:53:36 GMT
Subject: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <9PvekLArvL49Ewa2@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <arqrso$b2j$1@wheel2.two14.net> <8cmrra.qvc.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <QinE9.70119$Yw.3331389@news2.tin.it>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
   ...
>         Well, to add some more embers... Two runs under Mandrake 8.2, on a
> 733MHz P-III with RDRAM (Dell XPS B733r), Python 2.2, using the program
> listed above.
> 
> [wulfraed at beastie wulfraed]$ python t.py
> for loop took 7.61 to make a list of 500000 items
> list comprehension took 7.30 to make a list of 500000 items
> map took 6.84 to make a list of 500000 items
> [wulfraed at beastie wulfraed]$ python t.py
> for loop took 7.61 to make a list of 500000 items
> list comprehension took 7.31 to make a list of 500000 items
> map took 6.85 to make a list of 500000 items

And Mandrake 9.0, 1.33 GHz AMD Athlon, and 266-MHz DDR :

[alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.2 -O aa.py
for loop took 2.87 to make a list of 500000 items
list comprehension took 2.75 to make a list of 500000 items
map took 2.47 to make a list of 500000 items
[alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.3 -O aa.py
for loop took 2.33 to make a list of 500000 items
list comprehension took 2.32 to make a list of 500000 items
map took 1.61 to make a list of 500000 items
[alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.2 -O aa.py
for loop took 2.79 to make a list of 500000 items
list comprehension took 2.66 to make a list of 500000 items
map took 2.45 to make a list of 500000 items
[alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.3 -O aa.py
for loop took 2.32 to make a list of 500000 items
list comprehension took 2.34 to make a list of 500000 items
map took 1.61 to make a list of 500000 items
[alex at lancelot alex]$

Using time.clock instead of time.time it's quite similar:

[alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.2 -O aa.py
for loop took 2.80 to make a list of 500000 items
list comprehension took 2.67 to make a list of 500000 items
map took 2.45 to make a list of 500000 items
[alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.2 -O aa.py
for loop took 2.79 to make a list of 500000 items
list comprehension took 2.67 to make a list of 500000 items
map took 2.47 to make a list of 500000 items
[alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.3 -O aa.py
for loop took 2.32 to make a list of 500000 items
list comprehension took 2.34 to make a list of 500000 items
map took 1.61 to make a list of 500000 items
[alex at lancelot alex]$ python2.3 -O aa.py
for loop took 2.33 to make a list of 500000 items
list comprehension took 2.32 to make a list of 500000 items
map took 1.62 to make a list of 500000 items
[alex at lancelot alex]$


Alex



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Nov 24 12:47:50 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:47:50 -0600
Subject: a % b == b when a is a very small negative number
In-Reply-To: <uu1uocd4db4be5@corp.supernews.com>
References: <uu1uocd4db4be5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20021124114749.B26075@unpythonic.net>

Welcome to the wonderful world of floating point!

The result of -1e-18 % (2*math.pi) is the same as (2*math.pi-1e-18).
But the closest representable number to that is the same as the closest
representable number to (2*math.pi).

You can see the same thing with this code:
>>> -1. % 1e30 == 1e30
True

This is the body of "float_rem" (implements float%float) in
Objects/floatobject.c:
static PyObject *
float_rem(PyObject *v, PyObject *w)
{
        double vx, wx;
        double mod;
        CONVERT_TO_DOUBLE(v, vx);
        CONVERT_TO_DOUBLE(w, wx);
        if (wx == 0.0) {
                PyErr_SetString(PyExc_ZeroDivisionError, "float modulo");
                return NULL;
        }
        PyFPE_START_PROTECT("modulo", return 0)
        mod = fmod(vx, wx);
        /* note: checking mod*wx < 0 is incorrect -- underflows to
           0 if wx < sqrt(smallest nonzero double) */
        if (mod && ((wx < 0) != (mod < 0))) {
                mod += wx;
        }
        PyFPE_END_PROTECT(mod)
        return PyFloat_FromDouble(mod);
}

The problem code is
        if (mod && ((wx < 0) != (mod < 0))) {
                mod += wx;
fmod returned -1e-18, which triggers this test (result is nonzero and has
opposite sign from mod).  mod+=wx == wx (since mod is so small compared to
wx), and that's the result you get.

I don't know if it's "saner" to write
        if (mod && ((wx < 0) != (mod < 0))) {
                mod += wx;
                if(mod == wx) mod = 0;
though in your case it would make the "problem" go away.  Tim Peters will
probably tell me why this is a bad idea if he reads the thread.

Jeff



From claird at lairds.com  Tue Nov 26 20:25:46 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:25:46 -0000
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com> <2a001b6.0211241128.3d1ff56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uu87oqtdccuu60@corp.supernews.com>

In article <2a001b6.0211241128.3d1ff56 at posting.google.com>,
smartcardware.com <questions at smartcardware.com> wrote:
>Thanks for everyones replies and input.  I guess what I really meant
>by not being able to embed python was the following.  Basically the
>following is the gist of my post:
>
>"I've coded apps that have used TCL, Perl, and Python as embedded
>scriptling languages. TCL was OK but provided no object oriented
>features, the Perl object model leaves much to be desired, and
>Python's internal object structure requires translating your ojects
>into python objects.
>
>My recent research shows that Javascript is by far and away the best
>option for a scripting engine. Object access is via accessor methods
>in most implementations, so you just have to add a few methods to your
>object to make them JS compatible. JS syntax is of course very much
>like Java and C++, making the language accessable to a broad range of
>programmers.
>
>Since all object access is via accessor methods, implementing
>functions usuable by the JS code doesnt introduce double translation
>issues like Python does (C++ code passes translated object to python,
>python code calls back into C++ which must instance a new object and
>translate it to be usable YUK !!
>
>JS is just passing the object around as a JSObject base class
>instance, which you can access the real type of the object, and then
>cast to your working class"
>
>As I said this was from someone else, and not my opinion or statement.
> Basically the parts of the above message I'm concerned with are as
>follows:
>
>"Python's internal object structure requires translating your ojects
>into python objects."
>
>and
>
>"double translation issues like Python does (C++ code passes
>translated object to python, python code calls back into C++ which
>must instance a new object and translate it to be usable YUK !!"
			.
			.
			.
I'm fairly confident there's at least one error here.

I'm not sure where to begin.  The "double translation"
necessary in Python is not as grave as the description
above seems to believe.  Experiment with real applica-
tions, and you'll find that, in practice, "double
translation" very, very rarely constrains performance
of applications which expose a Python extension inter-
face.

Also, Boost.Python addresses what is the real issue in
this area, I believe.

Also, JavaScript has several implementations, and I don't
believe it's accurate that they all "just pass around a
JSObject".

Also, I think there's a confusion in the above between
object as exposed datatype and object as class instance
in the sense of C++.

I also have design issues with an approach that emphasizes
user-level access to C++ instance variables.  I'm willing
to grant at least temporarily that that might be a matter
of taste.

If you want to pursue this, please start by specifying a
particular JS implementation you're considering.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 18 05:18:25 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:18:25 GMT
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037576306.23078.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <R73C9.22783$744.834118@news1.tin.it>

Delaney, Timothy wrote:
   ...
> But none of this has anything to do with *inline functions* which is what
> the original poster asked about. A language which (supposedly) gets so
> close to the metal as to expose the implementation details of the code
> produced (such as via an "inline" hint) *should* these days have
> highly-optimising compilers. If your compiler does not have such
> optimisations, then the "inline" hint is probably useless. If it *does*
> have such optimisations, then the "inline" hint is also probably useless.

I don't entirely agree wih this very general statement, although it may
well apply to the specific case of 'inline'.

I think it might be quite sensible for a language to allow the human
programmer to state RESTRICTIONS that the programmer intends to follow
with respect to the more general semantics of the language in a specific
case -- even when the language's compiler should _theoretically_ be
able to infer those restrictions by examining all of the involved
source code, it may still be much more practical instead to have the
task just be one of CHECKING that the restrictions are indeed obeyed
(when the checking is feasible), as well of course as then potentially
going on to exploit the optimization possibilities that follow from
the restriction.

To make a trivial example -- "inline" might just be a peculiar spelling
to mean "I promise never to take the address of this" (I know C++'s
"inline" is different, but that's close to what "register" meant in
some C compilers).  Sure, sure, the compiler can find out for itself
what functions or variables ARE subjected to the address-of operator
and which aren't -- but at some stage of compiler development, machine
power, and times allowable for compilation and optimization, not
having to find out MAY in practice mean the difference between a
practically feasible optimization and one that isn't.

So perhaps in some hypothetical future Python, "inline" might just mean
"I promise never to re-bind this name: it will refer to the SAME object 
each and every time you look it up, forever and ever, amen".  It might then 
be preferable to spell it otherwise than 'inline', admittedly.  But 
'inline' might be once concise choice.  It would then be up to the compiler 
to check that the restriction is true (e.g. running in debug mode, doing 
the lookup again every time but emitting a warning or exception if the 
restriction is not being respected) and/or optimize based on that 
restriction (saving the lookup might be juicy enough, but possibly 
"inserting inline expansion" when feasible at the first occurrence might 
also be a possibility).


> Humans have been shown time and again to be exceptionally bad guessers as
> to what needs optimising. As such, humans should concentrate on making
> their code as clear and readable as possible, and let the automated
> systems (such as a compiler) work out what is the best optimisation.

Yes, but the language could help both the human AND the compiler from a 
pragmatical point of view, by making it possible to state restrictions 
(particularly ones that may allow optimizations) "clearly and readably".


Alex



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sun Nov  3 15:42:32 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 12:42:32 -0800
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on OS/390 V2R10
References: <3dc40ef1_1@news.vo.lu> <us8rhmg4f2iac1@news.supernews.com> <3dc50045_2@news.vo.lu> <usa9i1cbjampc6@news.supernews.com> <ducx9.80943$TD1.3668663@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <pn14qa.9l3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

<posted & mailed>

Alex Martelli fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 03 November 2002 
08:51 am:


> Me, I remember Rexx as a pretty good scripting language back from
> the '80s, when I worked for IBM -- Rexx is what first gave me the
> taste for using "scripting" languages wherever feasible.  I hear it
> also took roots in the Amiga world, and I assume it must have
> grown and developed in the 14 years since I last used it, but I
> haven't kept track.  But what do you think is "a typical kludge"
> about it?
>
        ARexx was essentially the only supplied programming language on the 
Amiga once AmigaBASIC was no longer updated (ie, about v2.x of the OS, 
or anyone with lots of RAM -- M$ had designed AmigaBASIC such that they 
were storing status bits in the upper 8-bits of address registers 
(expecting no one to need more than 24-bits of address). ARexx /did/ 
change the I/O system somewhat -- much cleaner than what my various 
REXX books show as normal IBM operations. It also took advantage of the 
Amiga's message-passing IPC system, with the result that it became the 
macro language for many applications (if you must, it was the 
equivalent of VBA in Office -- except it was still stand-alone also). 
Multiple ARexx programs could talk to each other this way.

        One feature of REXX that is often useful is that any statement/command 
that is not recognized as part of the language itself is passed to the 
"command interpreter" (shell) that the program is running in. No need 
for things like "os.system(external_command)" -- just put 
"external_command" as the statement to be executed. This comes in real 
handy if the "command interpreter" is really another application -- the 
commands then can be commands for that application

        ORexx is available (if you can find the old book) for both W9x and 
OS/2.

        There was a Unix implementation of REXX: uni-REXX from "The 
Workstation Group".

        Also, a version of REXX had been ported to run under VMS. 

-- 
--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov  5 18:46:01 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 23:46:01 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question: Sockets
References: <a_Xx9.45531$ku2.2717764@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrnase1hp.b0s.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <a_Xx9.45531$ku2.2717764 at twister.southeast.rr.com>, Kevin Bass wrote:

> I am attempting to process data within a socket. The socket establishes =
> communications on both servers but the data does not come out the way = that
> I want it. How do I store the retrieved data into an array or = another
> value? If there are multiple values, how can I store this = information?
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> client.py
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Enough with the MIME stuff already... :)

Since you don't say what's wrong, (and I don't care to run your code and try
to figure out what it's supposed to do) I'll take a guess: You're using a
TCP/IP connection and you expect it to act like a datagram service when it's
actually a byte stream service.

There are no record boundaries in TCP/IP.  

One end may call send() four times with 25 bytes each time.  The other end
may receive that data as a single 100 byte chunk, as 5 20-byte chunks, or as
100 single byte chunks.

><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">

And for the love of Usenet, ditch the HTML...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  The FALAFEL SANDWICH
                                  at               lands on my HEAD and I
                               visi.com            become a VEGETARIAN...


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov 12 16:41:29 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 22:41:29 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> As is hinted at, http://www.python.org/doc/current/doc/structured.html
> I do believe XML could do the job.

XML, in general, is indeed capable of representing the Python
documentation. There are existing tools to transform the current
documentation to SGML/XML, and I once proposed a DTD, see

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/doc-sig/2001-July/001954.html

Actually converting the documentation can't happen until two obstacles
are taken:

- there must be tools to process the resulting XML, such tools are
  currently not available. We would require HTML, Latex, and texinfo
  output, perhaps Windows CHM (whatever that is) as well. No such
  tools are available at the moment.

- Documentation authors must be educated on how to use this DTD. This
  will be quite a difficult task, especially as everybody uses text
  editors to manipulate the XML, and will complain that the XML is so
  much more verbose and unforgiving than LaTeX.

Remember, the documentation format should suit documentation authors,
not abstract principles, and not documentation readers (as they use
the formatted versions).

Regards,
Martin


From toni at soth.at  Fri Nov 15 22:01:43 2002
From: toni at soth.at (Toni Andjelkovic)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 03:01:43 GMT
Subject: HTTPSConnection with proxy
References: <yI0B9.3693$0U1.427112@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <slrnatbdav.1on6.toni@outpost.soth.at>

In article <yI0B9.3693$0U1.427112 at news2.east.cox.net>, Stuart D. Gathman wrote:
> a) the proxy support in urllib doesn't seem to work for https: 

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=305470&aid=515003&group_id=5470

> b) I need to post data with Content-Type: application/EDIStream,
> 	and urllib hardwires application/x-www-form-urlencoded

look for URLopener.addheader().

cheers,
-- 
Toni Andjelkovic
<toni at soth.at>



From DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Nov 13 14:56:28 2002
From: DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk (DaveP)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:56:28 -0000
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at gmx.de> wrote 
> 
>>> [\seerfc]
>>> <ulink href="url"> .... </ulink> appears to provide the same
>>> functionality if that is the case.
>> 
>> Yes, but the documentation author has to fill in the URL. In Python
>> documentation, the RFC URL provided at formatting time; currently, it
>> points to www.faqs.org.

OK, So too could the xml processing chain, probably in the same way.
By holding the url in the stylesheet and indexing off some key.

>> 
>> So yes, this could be converted, but only with a loss of information.
> 
> That's true for ulink, but you could invent your own element and have
> appropriate transformation to do the same as the current solution.

Agreed. Just a case of balancing.

> 
> Here's my personal summary of the pros/cons:
> 
> - Everything that the current Python/LaTex toolchain can do could in
>   theory be done using a XML/SGML toolchain, using various
>   transformation tools (AFAIK these exist for
>   man/pdf/ps/html/txt/windows help from either Docbook XML or SGML)
> 
> - It's some effort to extend the Docbook DTD to fit the need of the
>   Python documentation.
Yes, though you would leverage off the work that has gone into docbook?
That would provide a good springboard.
> 
> - It's considerable effort to adjust the various transformation tools
>   to cope with the new DTD.
Big jump either way IMO. 
> 
> - It's also considerable effort to tweak the transformation tools
>   (via XSLT, XML:FO or whatever) so that the resulting documentation
>   does look as well as Python's current one. The defaults of these
>   tools mostly look quite crappy.
 One mans meat is another mans .... Unarguable.

> 
> - There's no clear benefit from switching to Docbook right now. All
>   the difficult work has already been done for LaTex and switching to
>   Docbook provides no clear advantage. Plus, the difficult work would
>   have to be done *again*.

Yep.... But are you going to march onwards to Omega to pick up Unicode?
   The only given in the future is change.

> 
> Personally, I happen to like Docbook and hardly ever used LaTex, but
> have difficulty making the (HTML) Docbook output look good.
Probably I'm less fussy. 
Equally I see nothing in Fred's help documentation that docbook doesn't 
do already.
> 
> I'd suggest to anybody who wants to make the Docbook transition happen
> to provide XSLT/CSS stylesheets that make the HTML output of Docbook
> look *exactly* like the current one.

Justification?


 Same for the PDF output. Unless
> you can prove that this is at least possible, at least *I* find the
> suggestion to switch to Docbook unconvincing.
> 
> Those who are working on the Python documentation will certainly not
> do this work for you, as they've better work to do. Namely, writing
> documentation and not fighting the toolchain. Adjusting the tools has
> been done once already, and that should suffice for a few years ;-)

Few being?
My wild guess would be that there are today more people familiar with XML
than there are with \tex.  How long will the supply of tex afficianado's 
last?

Change is inevitable. Planning for it and managing it are the hard bit.

Regards DaveP.
Having recognised a brick wall, steps sideways.


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Thu Nov 14 20:58:03 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 01:58:03 +0000
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <ar1buq$1ib4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <rgi8tu0aaa9jirfvl04romsfq8giua67rh@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:33:33 -0800, "Russell E. Owen"
<owen at nospam.invalid> wrote:

>In article <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d at posting.google.com>,
> marvelan at hotmail.com (M) wrote:
>

[text snipped]

>
>As a concept, I feel generators and iterators are well worth learning 
>and using. I make pretty heavy use of them and am glad to be saving 
>myself the code I'd otherwise have to write. On the other hand:
>- There is some area of all this I still find confusing. it's hard to 
>put my finger on, but I'm not always sure whether I should be obtaining 
>an iterator and then using it in a for loop or defining __iter__ (or is 
>it iter?) and using my object directly in a for loop. Also, I'm not 
>always sure about iterators or generators that call iterators or 
>generators.

Let me try and shoot at the fog and see if I can clear it up. First a
definition: An object <whatever> is iterable (or is an iterable) if

iter(<whatever>)

returns *something* (and does not raise an exception). Iterables or nice
because they allow for loops, e.g.

for elem in <iterable>:
    <whatever>

Examples: list, tuple, file, etc.
>>> print iter([])
<iterator object at 0x01126098>
>>> 

Now iter() is a builtin function and when called on an iterable it
returns an *iterator* which may or may not be the same thing as the
iterable itself.

>>> a = []
>>> print id(a), id(iter(a))
17990976 17999536

As you can see the list iterable is different from the iterator itself.
I think (but I am not sure) that files are scheduled in 2.3 to become
their own iterators. Anyway, what the iterator object is supposed to
encapsulate is the traversal through the elements of the iterable. It
does this by having a method, next(), that gives the next element
(whatever that may be) or raises an exception if there is nothing left
to spew.

When Python encounters a

for elem in <iterable>:
    <whatever>

it basically is the same: get the iterator of iterable and sucessively
bind elem to whatever the iterator's next method returns until a
StopIteration exception is raised.

Note also that an iterator is also an iterable. But the iterator of an
iterator is the iterator itself (usually - I suppose there is some more
exotic code out there where this rule is broken).

>>> b = iter(a)
>>> print b
<iterator object at 0x01129C68>
>>> print b is iter(b)
1

If you want to code your own iterable just define __iter__. If it is an
iterator make __iter__ return self (unless you know what you are doing)
and provide a next method.

Now for generators. Generators are a cross-breeding between a function
and an iterable. It is better an example first:

>>> def test(n = 0):
... 	start = n
... 	while True:
... 		yield start
... 		start += 1
... 		
>>> print test
<function test at 0x01144A88>

As you can see test *is* a function. When called for the first time it
gives

>>> a = test()
>>> print a
<generator object at 0x01148DA0>

A generator. Now a generator *is* an iterator. To see that:

>>> a.next
<method-wrapper object at 0x010D0FD0>
>>> print id(a), id(iter(a))
18124192 18124192

But it is a special kind of iterator. It remembers all the state about
the "function". Let us go back to our little example to see how it
works. 

When you first call a.next() (either explicitely or implicitely in a for
loop) it executes the code in test until the first yield. When it gets
there it "returns" whatever expression is in front of the yield but
instead of discarding the function it "suspends" it. This means two
things (at least): The state of all the local variables is kept **and**
the place where you yielded is also kept. On the next next() call you
execute the body of test with your local variables in the state they
were in *and* right from the place where you last yielded: In our case
you start with

start += 1

which bumps start to 1.

And that is basically all there is to it.

>
>-- Russell

All the best,
G. Rodrigues

P.S: Gonna go back to 'Finnegans Wake' to see if I can improve my
english style. Ach, it sucks bad!


From timr at probo.com  Fri Nov  1 02:55:29 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:55:29 -0800
Subject: problems with shell environment in os.system calls
References: <fd707d0b.0210290834.e5d3b96@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0ic4su81eljd7hj7rl4be2u2qcg6891j8u@4ax.com>

jslavin at cfa.harvard.edu (Jon Slavin) wrote:

>I have a question regarding the shell environment in calls made via
>os.system, os.popen, etc.
>
>... My goal is to
>write a script that will source a C shell script that sets up various
>environment variables needed before executing the programs that really
>do all the work.

Before you go very far along this path, you need to think about what you
are doing.  Each call to os.system is independent: any environment variable
that gets set within that shell go away as soon as the shell exits.  Even
if you call "source", it is still running in a subshell that was created
specifically for the os.system call, and when it expires, so does its
environment.  You see the changes in your OWN environment (either in
os.environ or in any subsequent os.system calls).
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Thu Nov  7 09:54:16 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:54:16 -0600 
Subject: just a little program
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302CAE7E5@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: David Brown [mailto:david at no.westcontrol.spam.com]
> ...
> But why would you want to do this?  What does this have to do with
> economics?  And why do you specifically want a for loop?
>

Sounds like homework.

-gustavo



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 06:43:33 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:43:33 GMT
Subject: Howto wait for multiple queues (Queue.py)?
References: <PrPC9.32685$744.1205279@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1037873371.2405.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <FF3D9.35599$744.1316198@news1.tin.it>

Andreas Ames wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> 
>> ...this doesn't follow -- just make all requests to a thread onto
>> a single Queue (tag the requests with 'kind' or whatever as needed)
>> and live happily.  A Queue instance *IS* implicitly, automatically
>> and intrinsically "synchronized" -- several threads can be reading
>> and/or writing to the same Queue instance and you're guaranteed that
>> they'll never interfere with each other.  That's just about the
>> whole POINT of the Queue class.
> 
> Sorry, this confuses me a bit.  If you understood my mail such that I
> want to synchronize the access of several threads to one queue, my
> mail must have been totally ambiguous.
> 
> What I really want to achieve is that several threads can consume
> items from several (possibly identical) _sets_ of queues.  As I read
> the docs and looked at the source in Queue.py I don't doubt that this
> queue implementation is threadsave.

Why?  How would it advantage your application to have a thread peel
events off many queues rather than one?


> What I don't understand is the reasoning, *why* every thread should
> only have exactly one input queue.  This has several disadvantages

To avoid the complications that come from having many -- why else?

> from my point of view.  Several threads can't share the same input
> queue 

Of course they can, why shouldn't they?  You claim you understand
how Queue instances are threadsafe, so why would you think you
can't have several threads peeling events from the same Queue?

> and I can't distinguish between several input channels within
> one thread.  

But of course you can, it's trivial!  If it's too much bother to
have the posters of events tag them directly, wrap the one Queue
with as many wrapping-with-identification Channel instances as
you will, e.g.

class Channel:
    def __init__(self, identifier, queue):
        self.identifier = identifier
        self.queue = queue
    def put(self, whatever):
        self.queue.put((identifier, whatever))

there -- what's the problem?  It's quite easy to similarly
delegate put_nowait, get's, etc, etc, of course.


> For example in my case the threads should have input
> channels for commands and for events (such as command responses or
> unsolicited events).  Furthermore there can be different functional
> units which write commands and/or events to the same thread.  It is
> clear to me that this can be achieved by giving the different
> commands/events different types/kinds and use one input queue for all
> of them.  But I have at least two reservetions against this:
> 
> - The single input queue could be a bottleneck.  If you choose to
>   avoid the bottleneck by providing several threads which understand
>   the same commands, the producers have to decide about the
>   scheduling, i.e. which thread gets which command.

Not at all, the several working threads can perfectly well peel events
off the same queue.  That's quite a common arrangement, to have a
pool of threads all peeling work requests off the same queue.


> - It seems more intuitive to me to have different input channels for
>   different purposes.

So wrap the above Channel -- several instances thereof around the
one queue -- and let your intuition be happy.


> This is comparable to the 'select()' function which is widely used.

At low-levels, yes, but it's best wrapped in a more abstract
Reactor Pattern for practical use.  Twisted hinges on that, and
so do such frameworks as ACE.


> If you say, there is no good implementation for waiting on several
> queues in python, then ok, in this case I admit that using a single
> input queue per thread might be the way to go (I'm also not satisfied
> by the three alternatives I have enumerated in the original post; I
> think I will try alternative 3 for now).

There's no good implementation (that I know of), AND there is
absolutely no real need for it, so it's unlikely that anybody would
sweat to make such a "good implementation" happen -- why would they?


Alex



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 11 15:02:19 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:02:19 -0700
Subject: Follow-up to:  Complex numbers, abs resluts in ...
References: <111120021404268196%soufle@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <aqp2cb$6h4$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

noyb wrote:

> I should have explained that "mcv" is a rank 1 array and not a scalar.
> atan2 does not seem to accept anything other than a scalar.   Is a
> "for"
> loop in my future?

In [1]: import Numeric as N

In [2]: N.arctan
N.arctan   N.arctan2  N.arctanh

In [2]: N.arctan ?
Type:           ufunc
String Form:    <ufunc 'arctan'>
Namespace:      Currently not defined in user session.
Docstring:
    arctan(x) returns array of elementwise inverse tangents.


In [3]: N.arctan2 ?
Type:           ufunc
String Form:    <ufunc 'arctan2'>
Namespace:      Currently not defined in user session.
Docstring:
    arctan2(x,y) is a safe and correct tan(x/y).

These are all Numeric ufuncs, so they operate on arrays
Cheers,

f.


From antonmuhin at rambler.ru  Fri Nov 29 16:18:17 2002
From: antonmuhin at rambler.ru (=?Windows-1251?B?YW50b25tdWhpbiDt4CByYW1ibGVyLnJ1?=)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 00:18:17 +0300
Subject: Windows locale: default charset
In-Reply-To: <m3ptsot8ck.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <20021129141801.26007.24999.Mailman@mail.python.org>
 <mailman.1038582217.8465.python-list@python.org>
 <m3ptsot8ck.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <641853301.20021130001817@rambler.ru>

Thanks a lot.


MvL> antonmuhin ia rambler.ru <antonmuhin at rambler.ru> writes:

>> I want to find out default Windows charset to perform
>> encoding/decoding of Unicode strings.
>> 
>> locale module seems of no help---nl_langinfo function that could
>> provide me with needed info isn't included in ActiveState Python 2.2.
>> I found no similar functions in win extensions modules either.
>> 
>> May anybody point me info or snippets?

MvL> On Windows, locale.getlocale()[1] works well (although it does not
MvL> work that well on other systems). In Python 2.3,
MvL> locale.getpreferredencoding will work uniformly on all systems.

MvL> Regards,
MvL> Martin




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Nov 19 15:23:44 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:23:44 +0000
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <idf5gXAQ3p29EwJo@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <8yzp5pgv.fsf at python.net>, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net>
writes
.......
>2.  I would like to throw away some of my own code and use libffi
>instead also for Windows.  Since libffi uses gnu's assembler syntax,
>it would be easiest to crosscompile the library under linux for
>Windows, at least for starting.  I've heard this is possible using
>MingW, is this correct?  (Ahem) In this case, would some kind soul be
>willing to do it?
......

I've certainly compiled libffi using cygwin under win32 in the past for
Tcl use. I'll have a go at compiling a dll using mingw. 

I have something that purports to be libffi 2.0 beta dated 1999, where
is the latest version? 
.......
-I'm certainly one of the plusses on ctypes :)- 
Robin Becker


From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Nov  4 11:53:57 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 08:53:57 -0800
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
In-Reply-To: <yTedzLAIgnx9Ewzw@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001601c28422$c439c4f0$21795418@dell1700>

> Thanks I have applied the patch and it seems fine, probably better to
go
> that way rather than stick with Brian's old code as I guess it will
> gradually get more and more out of date.

Actually, the patches are based on the code at
http://www.sweetapp.com/xmlrpc/

I put my code there because there is always some lag between the code
being written and it being accepted into core Python. 

Of course, that is my fault for not including documentation with the
patch.

Cheers,
Brian




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 13 12:37:13 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:37:13 +0000
Subject: Raw Newbie: What's the "<?" tag and how can I learn more about it?
References: <mailman.1037204958.6376.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD28DC9.403C00C9@hotmail.com>

KEVIN ZEMBOWER:

>> I've found templates which look like this:
>>     <? if body is None ?>
>>       <hr><strong>["%(type)s" not shown]</strong>
>>     <? else ?>
>>       <hr><table width="640">
>>       <tr><td>%(markup_urls(html(body)))s</td></tr>
>>       </table>
>>     <? end ?>
>>
>> Obviously, this is python code embedded in HTML, very similar to php in
>> HTML, with which I am more familiar. However, I can't find any
>> references to the "<?" tag system on the python.org web site.

As Simon mentioned already, that's because it's not part of core python,
it belongs to whatever template system ezmlm uses.

>> The specific problem I'm working on involves the line '<hr><table
>> width="640">'. I'd like to change the width to "100%", but the percent
>> sign must be interpreted as a special character. It causes strange
>> errors. I've tried escaping it with 'width="100\%"', but this doesn't
>> seem to work, either. Any help on this small problem?

I don't know for certain, but the "100%" may be being interpreted as a
python "format string". See these urls for information on format
strings.

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node9.html
http://sandbox.mc.edu/~bennet/python/code/io.html

IFF it is a format string, then the solution is to double up the % sign:
i.e. express it like so "<table width='100%%'>".

However, if that isn't the problem, I don't have any further suggestions
to make.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From sav at ulj.menatepspb.com  Thu Nov 21 05:06:50 2002
From: sav at ulj.menatepspb.com (Alexander Semenov)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:06:50 +0300
Subject: Will python binaries compiled on vs.net?
References: <mailman.1037663246.28397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ddcb049$1@post.ulj.menatepspb.com>

Hi

 TP> Excellent!  You just volunteered to build the Python VC7 distribution

Ok. I just tried to compile python with VC7 (ftp://ftp.sav.vens.ru/python).
I used recent cvs snapshot. I follow exactly \dist\src\PCbuild\readme.txt.
Now I've some questions.

1. All but bsddb compiled without errors.
   db.1.85.win32.zip compiled ok, but python/bsddb project complains to
   unknown symbols u_long, u_int etc in db.h I solve problem by copying
   dist\bsddb\PORT\win32\include\compat.h to dist\bsddb\include
   Am I right? Why it didnt noted in readme?

2. There are some warnings. Is it normal? For examle:
dist\src\Objects\longobject.c(1252) : warning C4244: '=' : conversion from
'stwodigits' to 'digit', possible loss of data
dist\src\Objects\longobject.c(1271) : warning C4244: '=' : conversion from
'stwodigits' to 'digit', possible loss of data

3. Ok, I compiled it. I've got a bunch of *.lib and *pyd, python[w].exe.
What's
   next? How I can make distribution? I saw *.wse scripts for Wise
Installation
   System, but it is far from freeware. I look for some easy used tool or
script.

4. Help. As far as I can see, it's doesnt possible to build help for windows
distribution
   (html) in windows. I found win32 port for latex2html, but Makefiles in
/Doc uses sh
   scripts, and I didnt realize how I can do it. I know about cygwin, but my
personal
   preference is dont use it.

I think some of this questions are trivial and it's much simpler ask it here
and
get momental points to my stupidity, and then try to dig into complex ones.

Sorry for terrible english,
Alexander Semenov.




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 21 16:32:47 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:32:47 -0800
Subject: safsfsdf
References: <3DDCDA26.7020009@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3DDD50FF.A6071E18@alcyone.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> This is a test.

Man, guys, sorry about that, I was testing Mozilla and meant to email
that to myself.  I even wondered why it didn't show up!  How
embarassing.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ One rainy day / Chivalry walked up to me
\__/ Des'ree
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From capsthorne at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Nov  3 15:36:21 2002
From: capsthorne at yahoo.co.uk (Geoff)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 20:36:21 +0000
Subject: Book recommendation please
References: <1036349092.40578.0@iapetus.uk.clara.net> <LAex9.66857$aL4.2045429@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <1036355743.4079.0@doris.uk.clara.net>

On Sun, 03 Nov 2002 19:14:51 +0000, Alex Martelli wrote:

<snip>
> 
>> I have seen Gupta "Making Use of Python" advertised.  It is recent and
>> looks
> 
> Haven't seen that -- but I made the mistake of purchasing "Making Use of
> Ruby", from the same series (by Mahadevan, while the Python one is by
> Gupta), and it's probably the worst small book I've bought in many years
> -- full of technical mistakes, non-idiomatic and sometimes
> almost-incomprehensible use of English, and so forth; I was appalled
> that John Wiley, once quite a reputable technical publisher, could have
> sunk so low.  Quite apart from the author's problem with English and
> technical concepts, technical reviewing and copy-editing SHOULD have
> caught all of those problems; the fact that the book went out of the
> door in that state is, to my way of thinking, sufficient to advise
> people against buying ANY other book in that series (one MIGHT happen to
> be good, if the author's a demigod needing no technical reviewing nor
> copyediting, but the gamble's just too wild, given that there are so
> many other good, *well-reviewed, well-edited* books on the market).
> 
> 
Thank you very much for writing such a detailed and helpful reply.  I will
take Gupta off my list I think.

>> good.  I would be grateful for any views as to which of the two I
>> should go for.
> 
> If you're in a hurry and can't wait for the Python 2.2 version of
> "Learning Python" (sorry, I can't forecast when it might be ready), I
> think you would be well advised to look at other books yet.  If you're
> interested in other technologies to be used side by side with Python
> (such as relational databases, networking, XML, ...), then Holden's "Web
> Programming With Python" (New Riders) is very good, as it gives you just
> the right amount of grounding in those other technologies as well as
> Python.  Another good alternative is Magnus Lie Hetland's "Practical
> Python", by Apress -- lots of very substantial, fully worked-out
> examples there.

For the moment at least, I am learning simply because I want to.  I am in
a hurry only because I am enthusiastic.  I don't have a project in view,
but experience shows that once I begin to understand a language a suitable
project will come into my mind. I have spent the last couple of years of
free-time converting to linux and learning enough rudimentary C to work
out why some application I download won't compile.  I would now like to
reconnect with programming and do something more creative.  The silly
thing is that I had this preconception (left over from C64 days I guess),
that any worthwile language must be compiled and I did not pay any real
attention to python until I read a little more about it a few weeks ago -
since then it has been fun all the way :-)

> Be warned -- I'm biased, having been a technical reviewer for both books
> (only for the first half, i.e., examples excluded, in the case of
> "Practical Python"), and being friend with each of the two authors (each
> kindly reciprocated my reviewing, by serving in turn as technical
> reviewers for my "Python in a Nutshell")

That is the kind of bias I like.

Regards,

Geoff


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Nov 19 15:13:34 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:13:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: timeoutsocket & sendall / Python 2.1
In-Reply-To: <c177ebeb.0211191032.6e48fd57@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211191206170.16658-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 19 Nov 2002, John J Lee wrote:

> Surely somebody out there knows if this is correct?
> 
> Does nobody use timeoutsocket any more?  If not, what do you use?
> 
> Thanks for any help
> 
> "John J Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1037399909.22831.python-list at python.org>...
> > It seems that Python 2.1 added a sendall method to socket objects.  I
> > think something like this needs adding to timeoutsocket.py:
> [...]
> > +   def sendall(self, data, flags=0):
> > +       while data:
> > +           n = self.send(data, flags)
> > +           data = data[n:]
> > +   # end sendall
> [...]
> > I've never used sockets directly, so apologies if this is broken /
> > hopelessly naive.
> > 
> > I'm surprised that nobody has bumped into this before, which is
> > why I'm posting it here -- I have a feeling I must be missing
> > something.

(not sure where to place my response in the message body - the top-post 
reply to yourself confuses me. :) )

Hi John,

Yeah, it looks like timeoutsocket should get a sendall wrapper too - why 
don't you submit a patch to the module's author. 

Perhaps the reason that nobody has raised this concern has to do with the
facts that sendall is relatively new, lots of socket code is non-blocking
(and thus wouldn't use timeoutsocket), and in Python 2.3 sockets have
timeout functionality built in?

Have fun,
-Dave




From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Wed Nov 20 22:59:42 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:59:42 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBB8BD.6020806@web.de> <h3intucpgk2dg6vhul96pg5epcfva8o8ll@4ax.com> <87ptt0otp1.fsf@theasylum.dyndns.org> <svgotu4nk5pkskil0g81lj5ivlcnn943d0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3DDC5A89.7080406@nyc.rr.com>


Courageous wrote:
>>   C//> This little oft-repeated meme is exactly what has consigned
>>   C//> Common Lisp to the dust bin of programming history.
>>
>>No, I don't think so.
> 
> 
> Think all you like. Industry has spoken. Other languages = 10. Lisp = 0.
> 

True, but they spoke before: COBOL, CICS, VSAM, ...

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov  7 06:12:07 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:12:07 GMT
Subject: power TypeErrors
References: <mailman.1036639269.847.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3ptthzlf0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> [Michael Hudson]
> > ...
> > It's a bit odd that there's no cmath.pow().
> 
> But not surprising:  a good-quality pow() is difficult to code even for
> reals, and numerical analysts had nothing to do with Python's cmath.

Well, that's waht I thought: I know a good cmath.pow() is hard, but
I'm still faintly surprised cmath doesn't have a bad one :)

> If "most" vendors bother to implement C99 (I'm afraid that's not a
> certainty), Python can borrow its cpow() to plug this hole.  Short
> of that, exp(y*log(x)) makes users responsible for their own numeric
> screwups.

For all my mathematical leanings, I still don't really see the point
of having complex numbers native to a language.  The only other
language that springs to mind with them is CL, and I don't think
anyone uses them there, either.  OTOH, I guess it's an "if you need
it, you need it" thing -- I could probably cope if Python didn't have
floats :)

integers-strings-and-instances-will-do-me-ly y'rs
M.

-- 
  Counting lines is probably a good idea if you want to print it out
  and are short on paper, but I fail to see the purpose otherwise.
                                        -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Sun Nov  3 22:02:11 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 03:02:11 GMT
Subject: "Universal Gateway"
In-Reply-To: <1y63gc02.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk>
References: <apkc4c$d5s$2@pith.uoregon.edu> <n0oxjc6f.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Rejw9.22645$jE1.72970@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <1y63gc02.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Tqlx9.7868$5u4.25787@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Paul Moore wrote:
> Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> writes:
> 
> 
>>So it seems there will be 2 universal strategies:
>>* If you want to implement one or 2 interfaces (eg, the Outlook addin,
>>where you only need to implement a handful of interfaces out of the
>>hundreds available) - in this case you stick with the
>>"RegisterInterfaces()" type calls in the existing examples.
>>
>>* You want to implement *all* interfaces in a TLB.  In this case you
>>add a couple of extra annotations to your server class, and magic
>>happens <wink>
> 
> 
> Am I right in reading into this, the fact that the universal gateway
> is only for *implementing* general vtable interfaces (as one poster
> mentioned)? If so, is there a way to *call* an arbitrary interface?
> (Actually, I imagine that this should be possible using calldll plus a
> reasonable amount of arcane pointer arithmetic, but it sounds like it
> could be a bit messy and error prone...)

Correct on both counts.  So between the calldll source and the existing 
universal framework, we should be able to cobble something together that 
is less error prone or messy.

Mark.



From yin_12180 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  1 10:13:20 2002
From: yin_12180 at yahoo.com (Yin)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 07:13:20 -0800
Subject: Regex recursion error example.
Message-ID: <88caaeda.0211010713.5d3b1e05@posting.google.com>

After tinkering with this issue for a day or so, I've decided to use
xmllib to solve the problem.  But for future reference, I've attached
the piece of text that is failing and the two approaches that I've
tried to make the match.

Of course there are other approaches to doing this parse, but I am
interested in understanding the regex approach I am trying and its
limitations.

If there are no solutions using regex, I would be interested in seeing
a reference to articles or books that discuss overcoming particularly
long string matches.

Approach 1:
pattern=re.compile('&lt;PubMedArticle&gt;(.*?)&lt;/PubMedArticle&gt;',
re.DOTALL)
self.citationlist = re.findall(pattern, allinput)

Approach 2:
comppat=re.compile(r'&lt;PubMedArticle&gt;((?:(?!&lt;PubMedArticle&gt;).)*)&lt;/PubMedArticle&gt;',
re.DOTALL)
self.citationlist = re.findall(pattern, allinput)

There are three matching to make in this body of text.  The above code
has been failing on the second of the third.  This problem has only
been occuring on linux python and Windows python (the stack in Windows
is just larger enough to accomadate the matches.
Text to match:

http://160.129.203.97/1998_xmltest.html

Please let me know by e-mail if the link is down.

Thanks again,
Yin


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov 16 11:49:53 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 17:49:53 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <mailman.1037232380.29621.python-list@python.org> <3DD66C66.36420BBE@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <m3u1ihcvda.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> At least one I can think of is that if the source were in XML, 
> something I can manipulate with my eyes closed thanks both to
> its simplicity and to the herculean efforts of the many people
> who have contributed to the many Python XML technologies, I 
> would have the opportunity to "play" with it, and quite possibly
> would come up with some novel things to do with it that those
> who currently have access have not, and perhaps would not, have
> thought of.

That is, unfortunately, not a convincing-enough reason: the
possibility that somebody may find a use for the documentation that he
can't think of right now.

In any case, if you really want to look at it, there is a tool chain
that converts the existing documentation to XML for you to ponder.

> Is my description of a potential good, "however slight" it may
> be, sufficient for you to concur there just might be some benefit.
> I could come up with stronger arguments, I believe, but that
> doesn't seem worthwhile at this point in the discussion.

Most likely. It appears that your potential uses would all deal with
new processing opportunities, in which case I would always refer to
the existing conversion to XML, which then could be used as a starting
point for whatever new processing strategies people come up with.

For this kind of application, it is not necessary that the primary
source is XML; it is sufficient that XML can be derived from it.

Regards,
Martin



From bbird at hotpop.com  Fri Nov  8 06:47:57 2002
From: bbird at hotpop.com (Brian)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 03:47:57 -0800
Subject: commands.getoutput hangs
Message-ID: <56a674bc.0211080347.1b6caf8b@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to get some output from a shell script running within
python. Normally I can do this really easily with commands.getoutput.
However, in this case, the shell script spawns another process which
continues to run in the background even when the it exits. eg.

test.sh:
 echo "Starting"
 /usr/bin/my_server &
 echo "Server started"

python:
>>> import commands
>>> commands.getoutput("test.sh")

I want to get the output of test.sh ("Starting" and "Server started")
but I don't care about the output of my_server (which runs forever).
If I use os.system("test.sh") it exits immediately with the output
shown on screen. But commands.getoutput hangs, presumably because the
pipe is trying to read from the child process created by test.sh. Is
there any way to read from just the test.sh process and not the
my_server process?

I've tried os.popen, os.popen2, commands.getoutput etc. on python1.5
and python2.1.1

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Brian


From wesc at deirdre.org  Thu Nov 21 03:36:02 2002
From: wesc at deirdre.org (wesc at deirdre.org)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:36:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: Python Programming course (Silicon Valley, CA)
Message-ID: <200211210836.gAL8a2M29177@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu>

"Python Programming" course
UC Santa Cruz, Winter Quarter 2002
Jan 6 - Mar 10, 2003 (except Jan 20 and Feb 17)
Monday nights, 6:30 - 9:30pm
Sunnyvale, California

http://artemis.ucsc-extension.edu/~wesc/013e44cd.htm

Register online, or contact Sherry at 408-861-3765 or
smirkarimi at ucsc-extension.edu to enroll.  Sign up soon!
Early registration deadline is December 20, 2002.
Hope to see some of you there!

I will be giving a Python Programming 2 course which
follows this one in the Spring.  Alternatively, an
introduction to programming course using Python will
also be offered this Winter with another instructor
-- ask Sherry for more details.

-wesley

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall PTR, ? 2001
    http://starship.python.net/crew/wesc/cpp/

Silicon Valley-San Francisco Bay Area Python Users Group (BayPIGgies)
    http://www.baypiggies.net

wesley.j.chun :: wesc at deirdre.org
cyberweb.consulting : henderson, nv : cyberweb at rocketmail.com
http://roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/



From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Sun Nov 10 23:36:05 2002
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:36:05 +0800
Subject: getting started with cgi on os x
Message-ID: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F01BC86@mexper1.maptek.net.au>


>Question #2: I'm also assuming that the easiest way to call a python
cgi script from a web page 
>is via a form 'action'.  I'd really like to use javascript to call
python cgi scripts/methods , 
>(rather than using 'action' from a form ).  My hunch is that this is
impossible, or at least a 
>pain in the rear.  Am I right?

I assume you are wanting to call server side code from client side
Javascript? This is impossible. Unless you are using browser applets,
you have to develop using the "form-submit, process-request,
output-html" paradigm.




From dgemic at nospam.net  Sat Nov  9 10:20:16 2002
From: dgemic at nospam.net (Drazen Gemic)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 16:20:16 +0100
Subject: LCS algorithm
References: <3DCD1A12.4070809@nospam.net> <j79z9.9729$Bs5.333616@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DCD27B0.9020508@nospam.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Drazen Gemic wrote:
> 
> 
>>Is there an implementation of Largest Common Sequence algorithm
>>in Python ? I am particulary interested in implementation that
>>works for character strings.
> 
> 
> difflib.py in the standard python library contains that, as well
> as much else besides.
> 
> 
>>>>import difflib
>>>>sm = difflib.SequenceMatcher()
>>>>a = 'One by one the guests arrive'
>>>>b = 'The guests are coming through'
>>>>sm.set_seqs(a, b)
>>>>sm.find_longest_match(0, len(a), 0, len(b))
>>>
> (12, 1, 12)
> 
>>>>a[12:12+12]
>>>
> 'he guests ar'
> 
>>>>b[1:1+12]
>>>
> 'he guests ar'
> 
> 
> 
> Alex
> 

Thank you, you have done a great favour to me.

                           DG



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov  5 17:51:35 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 23:51:35 +0100
Subject: exec '' in {}    what does this do?
References: <usghe23e6gel34@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m3r8dzr5oo.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Lee Harr <missive at frontiernet.net> writes:

> What is happening here? I am totally lost.
> 
> I thought "in" checked to see if a key was in the dict,
> I do not understand why this inserts anything in to the dict.

Maybe

http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/exec.html

enlightens you?

Regards,
Martin


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Nov 15 20:53:52 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 19:53:52 -0600
Subject: Visual programming, looking for graphics layer
In-Reply-To: <E18CGyx-0005Ri-00@pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <20021114073103.7797.84412.Mailman@mail.python.org>
	 <E18CGyx-0005Ri-00@pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1037411631.6799.570.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Thu, 2002-11-14 at 04:09, Terry Hancock wrote:
> Hi Ian,
> On Wednesday 13 November 2002 11:31 pm,  Ian Bicking wrote:
> > After implementing a little Logo interpreter, I wanted to do
> > something more novel and interesting, like
> > Boxer.  In the extremely likely case you don't know anything about
> > Boxer, the website is at:
> > 
> >   http://www.soe.berkeley.edu/boxer/
> > 
> > It's a neat teaching language, where it has some graphical ways to
> > present programming structure.  Sadly its only available for Macs, and I
> > don't know if development is active.  But I've put up a little graphic
> > taken from one of the papers (and fixed up a bit) to give a feel:
> > 
> >   http://colorstudy.com/tmp/boxer-capture.gif
> 
> I've always been interested by visual metaphors for programming (I've never 
> found one of actual practical use to me, but I keep hoping to -- there's a 
> couple, like "overflow" that I want to spend some time to learn).  Anyway,
> that's fairly interesting  (not really enough information on the web pages to 
> form a real opinion, though -- might have to dig deeper).

Yeah, I'm not really looking for a language for my own use, but I'm more
interested in making programming more accessible for others.  I haven't
heard of "overflow" -- what's that?

> > The hard part is that this sort of layout is fairly hard to do.  Not
> > only do you have text inside different sorts of boxes, but an important
> > part of the language is that you also have non-text literals (like
> > colors and shapes, and even lists may be represented in a graphical
> > fashion).  All these need to be manipulatable.
> 
> Most of these things seem like fairly common GUI widgets to me -- the sticky 
> part is probably editing them interactively.

Yes, the editing part is difficult.  The boxes also don't seem to fit
into any widget I can think of -- they can be nested and manipulated,
but the only manipulatable thing like that I can think of is windows,
and decorated windows are way too distracting.  I think there's some
false cognates in using normal widgets too.

So I'm thinking pyui is really the right thing to use -- or at least the
basis for the right thing.  It's someplace I can create portable
widgets, for instance.

> > I'm hoping to get some advice or pointers on something already available
> > that can make this easier.  I could use pygame, maybe even with pyui,
> > but that's still a long way from what I'd have to do for even the most
> > minimal functionality.  I've also had a hard time understanding pyui's
> > architecture -- there's something magic in there and I can't tell where
> > things actually get *done*... but I'm sure that's surmountable.  Maybe
> > that's where I should be looking.
> 
> I've been tinkering with PyUI (trying to implement the AWT renderer so it can 
> be used in Jython -- following up the browser applets thread I started a few 
> days ago).  Clearly, I'm not an expert yet, but I plan to spend a lot of time 
> with it -- maybe we can figure it out together?
> 
> Briefly, it appears to me that a PyUI renderer starts up and calls a program 
> to run under PyUI using that renderer. The program creates widgets to respond 
> to various events. At that point, the program idles, waiting for events 
> posted from the renderer to PyUI's events mechanism which drives the 
> modification of the GUI model inside of PyUI. The model is rendered to the 
> display by the renderer. Interestingly, it doesn't really appear to matter 
> whether the renderer polls for events or catches events (as in interrupts).  
> The renderer is pretty simple, and just has to handle drawing and catching 
> the events. So far the most complicated thing seems to be fonts.
> 
> I'm not sure what exactly you meant by "things" and "done", but I hope that 
> summary is helpful in some way.
> 
> The one thing I find frustrating with PyUI (as it is now), is that many of 
> the primitive data structures "rect", "pos", "font" aren't really very well 
> defined.  I'm not sure if this is a problem for the application programmer, 
> though.

Yes, I'd be interested in trying to figure out PyUI.  I contacted that
author at one time and didn't get a response (I was trying to figure out
how to use raw pygame with pyui) -- I suspect that it isn't being
actively worked on at the moment, or that the author has obligations
elsewhere.

Right now I see only an announcement list for pyui -- maybe a good place
to start would be to get one of the project admins to set up a
discussion list -- then even if we don't get very far, it will live on
in history ;)

When I was looking at pyui, I wasn't able to figure out where the
rendering really happened.  Instance variables were being used, and I
wasn't able to find where they were created or where they ended up. 
Stuff like that.  I wanted to pick it apart, and I just couldn't figure
it out -- which is unusual with Python code.

  Ian




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Nov  1 04:17:34 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:17:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Classes question
References: <20021031205456.GA8006@ens-lyon.fr>
Message-ID: <Xns92B95D24C4334duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Emmanuel Jeandel <ejeandel at ens-lyon.fr> wrote in 
news:20021031205456.GA8006 at ens-lyon.fr:

> I would like to have the class A and the class B in two differents files.
> Is it possible ? 
> I think that it is not directly possible, but if there is a mean with a
> small change in the code...
> 
Looks straightforward enough to me:

File classA.py:
class A:
       def __init__(self):
              pass

       def f(self):
              self.x = classB.B()
import classB

File classB.py:

import classA
class B(classA.A):
       def __init__(self):
              classA.A.__init__(self)

 



-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From srumbalski at prodigy.net  Tue Nov 19 14:11:26 2002
From: srumbalski at prodigy.net (Steven Rumbalski)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:11:26 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <44d4f61c.0211181708.465f5838@posting.google.com> <3DDA7385.2020609@nyc.rr.com> <eppstein-C621D0.09384719112002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <y1wC9.3258$jt3.1116@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>

David Eppstein wrote:

>> The numbers I hear are that CL runs on average 20% slower than C.
> 
> This is after how many decades of Lisp compiler development?
> 
Sheesh.  How long have C compilers been around?



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 25 06:57:53 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:57:53 GMT
Subject: Iteration of strings
References: <DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489@news010.worldonline.dk> <mailman.1038008911.28064.python-list@python.org> <3DE0DDEA.1B87D457@hotmail.com> <Xns92D17209D4294duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <5foE9.51931$744.1901461@news1.tin.it>

Duncan Booth wrote:
   ...
> Of course that still doesn't catch the case where someone subclassed a
> string type. If you are sufficiently paranoid you might consider:
> 
> def dont_allow_string_argument(v):
>     for t in types.StringTypes:
>        assert not isinstance(v, t)

loop unneeded in recent Python versions (at least since 2.2.1 -- no older 
one around to check, sorry):

>>> import types
>>> isinstance('ciao', types.StringTypes)
1
>>> isinstance(23, types.StringTypes)
0
>>>

Or, you could catch just about all "string workalikes" with:

def raise_on_stringy_types(v):
    try: v+''
    except: pass
    else: raise TypeError, "Type %s not acceptable" % type(v)


Alex



From costanza at web.de  Fri Nov 22 13:02:06 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:02:06 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> wrote in message news:<arj3lf$ar1$1 at newsreader2.netcologne.de>...
> 
> 
>>Could you try to describe what it means to you to think in Python? What 
>>makes it different from thinking in other languages? (This is not a 
>>rhetorical question!)
> 
> 
> Sorry for my late reply, but I see than others have addressed your question
> better than I could have done myself. In short, you see that you start 
> *thinking* in a given language when:
[several factors]

This is all clear to me, but I didn't want to know about this general 
level. I would like to know more specifically what features make Python 
special to you. As Kenny put it, in what regards is Pythonthink 
different from Otherlangthink?


Pascal

P.S.: And please take all the time you need for answering this question. ;-)

-- 
Pascal Costanza               University of Bonn
mailto:costanza at web.de        Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de  R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)



From d_blade8 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov  1 15:00:11 2002
From: d_blade8 at hotmail.com (Lemniscate)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 12:00:11 -0800
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg> <mailman.1036145342.13403.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7396d2b2.0211011200.75ecd9e2@posting.google.com>

Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036145342.13403.python-list at python.org>...
> Using the Installer gives you the advantage that
> no source code can be seen and even no bytecode
> is visible in the first place. It is of course ungzipped
> from the executable at execution time, but there are
> no visible files, it is in memory, only.

Actually, this isn't quite true.  If you open the exe generated by the
Installer with a text editing program (even NotePad works), your code
is visible in the code (just do a search for you imports or a def
statement and you'll find it.  Usually, I find it in either the dead
center of the file, or towards the end of the file.  In fact, if you
cut and paste, you will have your code back (I've actually done this
before when my wife deleted some of my source back-ups, and it works
perfectly).  Just another warning, putting code out there that you
think is secure because it looks obscure is NEVER a good choice.

For some interesting reading (and some nice laughs along the way),
check out: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=obfuscation&meta=group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Have fun,

Lem


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Nov 27 12:07:01 2002
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 17:07:01 GMT
Subject: floating point division -- question
Message-ID: <as2u3l$ncf6d$5@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>

Some time ago, there was thread discussing adding a floating point division
operator, like //.  Doing 'a//b' is certainly easier than doing
'a/float(b)', and it doesn't break any existing codes.  Has there been any
interest from the Gods of Python?

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Wed Nov  6 13:00:26 2002
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:00:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Subclassing the min() build-in function?
References: <18eef4ae.0211060911.2c0a7731@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqblbq$dta$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

oracle_vs_ms at yahoo.dk (Peter Lorenzen) writes:

>Hi,

>I am using Jython to calculate a string like this:  "2+3+min(1,2,3)"
>from my Java pro-gram. This works beautifully. But my problem is that
>if a user wants to calculate min(1) Python considers this an error. I
>want it to return 1. If I could figure out how to subclass the min
>function, so when it was called with one parameter I just returned
>this parame-ter, and otherwise returned the super min function. It
>looks like this should be possible, but I am new to Python, so I don't
>understand the subclass examples I have found.

Something like:

def min(*a):
 if len(a) == 1: return a[0]
 return __builtins__.min (*a)

Example:
>>> def min(*a):
...  if len(a) == 1: return a[0]
...  return __builtins__.min (*a)
... 
>>> min(2)
2
>>> min(1,2)
1
>>> min(3,2,1)
1
>>> min([1,2,3])
[1, 2, 3]

The last example shows that you might want to check whether 'a' is a sequence
if that's ever likely to happen.  Using __builtins__.min is easier than making
a local copy of the standard min which could have been done by:

real_min = min
def min(*a):
 if len(a) == 1: return a[0]
 return real_min (*a)

This is not subclassing, min is a function not a class so it's just redefining
the function - this may explain why you were going astray (in Python not
everything is an object thankfully).

Eddie



From mgerrans at mindspring.com  Fri Nov  8 01:01:06 2002
From: mgerrans at mindspring.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 22:01:06 -0800
Subject: Help me out with bugs in my list ?
References: <mailman.1036729150.25005.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqfk1b$uh8$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

The Python Cookbook entry "Remove duplicates from a sequence" on ASPN covers
this at http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52560





From grante at visi.com  Sat Nov  9 10:55:39 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 15:55:39 GMT
Subject: mounting a floppy
References: <9n8qsug5ubc9kvu9qvssvli931vqq7m8mh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasnnfb.1t4.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <9n8qsug5ubc9kvu9qvssvli931vqq7m8mh at 4ax.com>, Simon Faulkner wrote:

> I have written a CGI web frontend for a little system
> 
> I need to mount a floppy, write a file to it, unmount the floppy
> 
> Only root can do this

Change the permissions on the floppy so apache can do it.  You don't say
what OS you're using, so it's hard to guess how that would be done.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. my NOSE is NUMB!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From whisper at oz.net  Tue Nov 26 16:31:51 2002
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:31:51 -0800
Subject: memory leaks in Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <20021126180400.GB7388@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEIEECGEAA.whisper@oz.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Epler
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:04
> To: Maric MICHAUD
> Cc: Python-List (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: memory leaks in Tkinter
>
>
> I think the term "memory leak" is usually used when something can make
> the process use an unbounded amount of memory over multiple iterations.
> Here, the amount of memory consumed doesn't continue to grow over
> multiple iterations of
>     while 1:
>         x.delete(1.0, end)
>         x.insert(end, s)
>         ps()
>
> While the roughly-equivalent tcl script doesn't have quite the same memory
> usage, you'll notice that no storage is freed after '.t delete 1.0 end'.
> I suspect that this means some internal structure of the text widget
> never shrinks when its contents shrink.  Add to that the need to keep a
> copy of the Python string converted to TCL, and the memory usage may be
> "explained" as a combination of a Tkinter limitation and a Tk
> limitation.
>
> Jeff
<snip>

I know of one tkinter application that uses a lot of text widgets and leaks
hugely per Jeff Eppler's definition. I haven't figured out what the leak is,
but it's _quite_ noticable and I wish it wasn't there since I like the app a
lot. The app is Leo ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/).

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA




From Jan.Wegner at zuken.de  Tue Nov 19 07:46:47 2002
From: Jan.Wegner at zuken.de (Jan D. Wegner)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:46:47 +0100
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <eCeC9.26263$744.955879@news1.tin.it> <rReC9.17366$0U1.1726665@news2.east.cox.net> <TYeC9.26326$744.959069@news1.tin.it> <7h3r8dhvkbc.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DDA32B7.5060508@zuken.de>

Hi,

using py 2.2.2 on winNT

l = (1, 2, 3, 4)
ans = l in [l] # is tuple l in list l ?
ans
1 # allways true
ans < 2
1 # its a boolean, though ...

am I right?

( or is ther a chance to execute 'if l in ( [l] < 2 ):' )

/j

Michael Hudson schrieb:
> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> 
> 
>>Richard Dillingham wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>It's better written as:
>>>>
>>>>if coords[0]<=posx<=coords[2] and coords[1]<=posy<=coords[3]:
>>>
>>>Hmm.... I just tried that, and am quite amazed to find that it actually
>>>works.
>>
>>Python comparison operators CHAIN -- a wonderful little trait...
> 
> 
> Indeed they do.  There's a wonderful little wart, though.  What does
> this:
> 
> if 1 in [1] < 2:
>   print 1
> else:
>   print 2
> 
> print?
> 
> Cheers,
> M.
> (actually, the answer may be Python version dependent...)
> 


-- 
Jan Wegner          Software Engineer         Zuken GmbH
Vattmannstrasse 3                      D-33100 Paderborn
     Tel: +49 5251 150627      Fax: +49 5251 150700
----*... and may all your GUIs be fast and friendly.*----



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 20 17:58:49 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 23:58:49 +0100
Subject: string encoding problem
References: <Xns92CCEFC7BE7BBroblochefrst@213.228.0.32>
Message-ID: <m33cpv6e6u.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Rodolphe <robloche at fr.st> writes:

> Could someone help me out with this simple problem ?

Tk is returning a Unicode object to you. If you want to write that
Unicode object to a byte stream, you need to encode it, e.g. with

  print str.encode("cp1252")

Regards,
Martin



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Sun Nov 17 01:08:56 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 06:08:56 GMT
Subject: python on unix [getting started]
Message-ID: <YnGB9.566$Kw6.401397@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

This is a little ot, but not too much ...

I am pretty decent with using python on windows.  in particular, I use a lot
of COM programming.  I am now interested in doing more work on unix, but am
not sure where to get started.  What i am interested in is using python to
glue other things together, much like with COM on win32.

In particular, I would like to control mpg123 (i think?).  what is the
proper way to think about doing something like

player = win32com.client.Dispatch('mpg123.player')
player.play('/usr/home/mp3/Some Song.mp3')

on unix?  perhaps, where is the proper place to look to start learning about
this. any books, or websites, or pieces of code to look at?

thanks,

-doug




From owen at nospam.invalid  Fri Nov 15 12:00:18 2002
From: owen at nospam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:00:18 -0800
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <4STA9.9987$744.345722@news1.tin.it> <jc58tugirbnbtn1i7e2kf7of4l3ltt665e@4ax.com> <mailman.1037315122.20415.python-list@python.org> <3DD44152.69795B9F@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <ar399e$1ibq$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <3DD44152.69795B9F at alcyone.com>,
 Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

>"James J. Besemer" wrote:
>
>> I collect pocket reference guides, and FWIW, Python's is the largest!
>> 
>> Perl 5 (including libraries) is only 48 pages.
>> 
>> I have C/C++ pocket refs that work out to 8 pages for the language and
>> 8 pages for the libraries.
>
>I think what's making the difference here is the quality/depth of the
>reference guides, not the actual languages.  A "C/C++" reference that is
>a total of 16 pages simply not comparable to a Python reference that is
>124 pages.  C and C++ (two different languages, by the way) are not
>about 8 times simpler than Python.  Far from it, in fact.

I agree. I'd say that the ratio of power to pitfalls is one very good 
way to gauge a language. Consider C++ and Python in that light:

C++ has many nasty pitfalls. Sources of trouble include the lack of 
garbage collection, the use of pointers, a complex object implementation 
and strong typing (which plays hell with collection classes). Several 
entire books are devoted to subtle ways you can shoot yourself in the 
foot with C++ (I have Meyer's Effective C++ and More Effective C++ and 
found them very useful). It's so bad that I cringe whenever I use C++ 
classes (did I remember to disable copying and related methods, or 
support it specially in some way? are my destructors really solid? am I 
doing things the virtual way or not depending on future plans for 
inheritance?). 

Contrast that with Python. Python has most of the features of C++, 
including classes, collections, multiple inheritance, exception 
handling. Yet these features are much easier to use (admittedly at a 
small hit in power, but it's a tradeoff I heartily endorse) and Python 
has many fewer pitfalls. A book of cautions would be very short -- 
perhaps a worthy chapter in a Python reference manual, but no more.

With regards to Perl, I favor Python for some of its other virtues, 
including readability and self-consistency.

In my experience, the only language I've used that comes close to Python 
for power, ease of use and overall enjoyable programming is Smalltalk 
(which is more self-consistent, has better collection classes and a 
much, much better development environment, but of course also has its 
own weaknesses--including it's pretty hopeless for short scripts). Ruby 
looks very promising, but I've not learned it. The bits of Lisp I 
learned were promising. LabView is quite amazing in some ways.

So when you see me pontificating about perceived warts in Python, I do 
want to say I speak up because I love the language. Python is great and 
I'd like to see it evolve to ever greatness (and certainly not towards a 
morass of clutter and featuritis).

In trying to kill 3 birds with one stone, I also want to say something 
about division. As I understand it, the primary reason to change / so it 
never truncates is because if you are dividing two variables, you may 
not know in advance whether they will be floats or integers. The new way 
allows you to consistently get a given result. Note that this is 
entirely a nonissue in C/C++ because of its strong typing. I personally 
heartily endorse the new way of doing things and heartily thank Guido 
for taking this stand. Change is very painful, as is not doing things 
"the C way", so it's bound to cause anguish.

-- Russell


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Nov 13 00:08:58 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:08:58 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <aqmle2$8gd$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <aqn5sq$cef$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3DCF83B2.2030008@web.de> <slrnasvst4.bbp.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <3DD0D765.3030907@web.de> <3DD16CAF.41214BBA@alcyone.com> <m2el9qjd0f.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3DD1DE6A.1BBEFE5A@alcyone.com>

Paul Foley wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:03:43 -0800, Erik Max Francis wrote:
>
> > Note that for "first tastes," Scheme is probably a better
> > introduction [clipped]
>
> "Introduction" to what?  Scheme and Lisp are very different languages.

To Lisp-like languages, which was clearly stated in the line you trimmed
which immediately followed the one you quoted here.  My point is that if
you're just interested in learning about the approach of Lisp-like
language as opposed to, say, Algol-like languages or Prolog-like
languages, then Scheme might be a better choice because of its greater
simplicity and focus on the fundamentals.  You might disagree, but it
was obviously subjective advice anyway.

> > Scheme doesn't have this distinction between a symbol and the
> > function
> > associated with it, so there's no distinction between ' and #'.
>
> It most certainly does, and there is.

To explicitly apply a function to a list of arguments in Common Lisp you
would write:

	(apply #'+ '(1 2 3))

In Scheme this is an error, since #'... has no meaning in Scheme. 
Instead, you would write:

	(apply + '(1 2 3))

In Scheme you do not have to say, "Go get me the function that this
symbol represents"; in Lisp you do.  (Yes, there are cases where Lisp
will do it for you via macros, but the distinction is still there which
Lisp makes but Scheme does not.)

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ All the gods are dead except the god of war.
\__/ Leroy Eldridge Cleaver
    Bosskey.net: Aliens vs. Predator 2 / http://www.bosskey.net/avp2/
 A personal guide to Aliens vs. Predator 2.


From Oschler at earthlink.net  Sun Nov  3 19:25:12 2002
From: Oschler at earthlink.net (Robert Oschler)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 00:25:12 GMT
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <3dc52a19.3339913@news.cybermesa.com> <aq3fd3$fv$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1036345624.20066.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <I7jx9.42003$Lg2.11425036@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Bryan L. Fordham" <bfordham at socialistsushi.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1036345624.20066.python-list at python.org...
>
> I've worked at a company (now owned by verisign) for almost 2 years, and
> all the development produced in my department is in java.  But, to me,
> it's much quicker for me to hack out quick scripts in python that
> produce java code than it is to try and do that in java.  I've gotten a
> few people there to install python, and they all find it much easier to
> use than java.
>

Bryan,

Are you saying that you use Python scripts to write Java source code, or
that you Python scripts to write Java byte code, or that you use Python
scripts that are run dynamically by Jython?

thx





From Padraig at Linux.ie  Tue Nov 19 10:29:06 2002
From: Padraig at Linux.ie (Padraig Brady)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:29:06 GMT
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DDA583F.3070206@Linux.ie>

Josh wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> I am a python newbie, and I am sure there is an easy answer but, Is there
> any equivalent to C's static variables in Python? If not, how can you have
> variables inside a function, that 'remember' their values between function
> calls?
> 
> Josh

For functions you could set attributes of the function
as static variables? like:

def func():
     func.name="value"

Then the attribute will be stored with the function
and so is as long lived as the function

P?draig.



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Nov  6 11:53:06 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 17:53:06 +0100
Subject: Cyrillic character usage in Tkinter
References: <mailman.1036597987.9469.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4isza3aj1.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Bobirkhon Ismailov" <bismailov at uzavtoyul.uz> writes:

> I'd like to use Cyrillic (Russian) letters in Tkinter (that comes with
> Python 2.1.1 in Windows), but the text that comes up in widgets is not
> readable. I will really appreciate if somebody shows me how to print
> Cyrillic in Tkinter.

The best approach is to use Unicode strings. Please try running the
script

import Tkinter

t = Tkinter.Label(text=u'\N{CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER ZHE}\u0437')
t.pack()
t.tk.mainloop()

If you want to use some byte encoding, such as CP 1251, in your source
code, you should write

t = Tkinter.Label(text=unicode("cyrillic text here", "cp1251"))

Notice that editing such source code in IDLE is currently not
supported (unless you change the default encoding), so you need to use
a different editor, eg. notepad.exe.

HTH,
Martin


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Nov 26 20:35:40 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:35:40 -0600
Subject: Serial.py woes
Message-ID: <m2u1i3pzf7.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

I am using Roger Burnhams SioModule22 to interface with a RS232
medical device.  I can do a basic handshake with the device and
nothing more.  All other commands that I attempt are ignored (no data
sent back).  The basic handshake is: I send a CR, it sends back a
'*'.  

I have read the damned manual 20 times and running out of guesses.  I
thought if I posted some of the parameters of the device and port, and
some of my code, a more experienced veteran of serial device
programming under win32 would have some suggestions for me.

The device is configured in the windows control panel as COM1 with
19200 baud, 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity.  I checked the baud
setting on the machine board and it is at 19200.  The manual says
regarding baud:

  All speeds have

  1 start bit
  8 data bits
  1 stop bit

I am not sure if I should be using the 1 start bit info in the
configuration of my port or code below. Please enlighten me here.  I'm
hoping that this indicates I have set something improperly, cause I
really want to fix this and move on.

I am using this module because it was recommended in Python
Programming for Win32, but would be happy to try another on someone's
recommendation.  

Here is my sample program

import sys, traceback
from Serial import Serial

config = Serial.PortDict()
config['port'] = Serial.COM1
config['baud'] = Serial.Baud19200
config['stopBits'] = Serial.OneStopBit
config['parity'] = Serial.NoParity
config['dataBits'] = Serial.WordLength8

port = Serial.Port(config)
port.open()
try:
    port.write('\r')    # attention
    print 'Open: ', port.read(1, timed=4000)
    port.write('R at 1,0,1000,1\r')  # ask for a 1000 bytes from array 1
    print 'Data: ', port.read(1000, timed=4000)
    port.write('X\r')  # release the interface
    port.close()
except:
    port.write('X\r')
    port.close()
    traceback.print_exc()


And the exception
#d:\jdh\neurostar\python>d:\python22\python allinone.py
#d:\python22\python allinone.py
#Open:  *
#Data: 
#Traceback (most recent call last):
#  File "allinone.py", line 17, in ?
#    print 'Data: ', port.read(1000, timed=4000)
#  File "D:\PYTHON22\Serial\Serial.py", line 469, in read
#    raise SioError, \
#SioError: Timed out waiting for input chr 0 of 1000, read ''.


Any and all advice much appreciated.

For the old-timers, the device is a Neurostar Ms92B.

John Hunter

python2.2



From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov 10 10:27:05 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:27:05 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <ff133276.0211091535.47871cf2@posting.google.com> <aqkdoq$db6$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it>

Jens Axel S?gaard wrote:
   ...
> A frequently asked question for new comers to Python is "Why did
> you leave out my favorite loop construction?". I mean, there are always
> someone that likes do-while better than repeat-until and vice versa.
> 
> In a language with macros such as CommonLisp or Scheme one can use
> macros to make new control structures. One example is the "missing"
> loop. The point is that the programmer can add to the power of the
> language without asking Guido first.

I think these two paragraphs come closest than any other attempt so far to 
answer the question that is this thread's subject.

CL and Scheme have powerful macros, which you can basically use to change 
the language in any odd way, WITHOUT the supervision of a superb language 
architect like Guido.  Python does not: you cannot inflict such deep 
changes in the language -- it's always the language Guido designed. 

Surprise, surprise: the language that's always itself, always well designed, 
is popular; the languages that anybody can change arbitrarily aren't.

Doesn't surprise ME one bit.

It's not the prefix form and the parentheses.  Dylan uses infix form, AND 
some of its semantics are superb.  BUT it has powerful macros... kiss of 
death: and, surprise surprise, Dylan isn't popular either.

It's exactly BECAUSE every newcomer longs for some weird set of feechurs 
that are better done without, that a language that lets such newcomers add 
all the weird things, changing the language itself and turning it from a 
(hopefully) well-designed whole to a hodge-podge, is not going to be 
popular with the masses.  Some brilliant individuals -- a tiny minority -- 
are no doubt going to use such power wonderfully well, building several 
different complex, specialized languages.  The rest of us, the vast 
majority of the human race, is BY FAR best served by having to use one 
well-designed language rather than by letting each make up their own.

*Simplicity* is an often-forgotten but nevertheless crucial criterion of 
good design.  A slightly harder-to-express but also important criterion is 
*unity of vision* -- a system should feel like an integrated whole, not as 
a disparate jumble of parts.  Python meets both criteria.  I believe that 
introducing powerful-enough macros to Python would make it more likely than 
not for most programmers to break both criteria, and thereby probably doom 
Python, too, to eventual obscurity.


Alex



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Nov  3 06:18:07 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 03 Nov 2002 12:18:07 +0100
Subject: string.printable unchanged by locale
References: <ihDw9.831$%2.47@news1.bredband.com>
Message-ID: <m3k7juc368.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Magnus Lyck? <magnus at thinkware.se> writes:

> Is this intentional or a bug?

It's a bug. However, it is not clear what the fix is: probably
deprecate string.printable altogether. By design, it cannot work for
multi-byte encodings, so it is questionable what good it would be to
make it locale-dependent.

The same applies, of course, to string.letters, etc. I would recommend
to use Unicode categories instead. I.e. convert the strings to
Unicode, then use the value returned from unicodedata.category to
determine whether something is "printable". Notice that being
"printable" is a fuzzy property - pick a definition that suits your
application best.

Regards,
Martin



From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Mon Nov 25 18:43:58 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:43:58 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE040DF.EACC7D3A@kolumbus.fi> <yfsbs4ebhnl.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE2AEFE.BF188406@kolumbus.fi>
Message-ID: <3DE2B626.6000009@nyc.rr.com>


Martti Halminen wrote:
> Alexander Schmolck wrote:

>>Well, if you prefer then elt is inconsistent :)
> 
> Sure it is. We are talking about a language that had as one of its
> primary design criteria at least some compatibility with existing code
> bases in its predecessors, so many design warts had to be retained.
> Obviously not a problem for people getting to define their language on a
> clean slate.

And this will set an upper bound on how far Python can go, with an 
obligation not to break all the stuff piling up in the Vaults. (Not that 
I am aware of any actual desire to take the language in new directions; 
I get the feeling "less is more" was the Prime Directive.)

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Wed Nov 27 18:05:12 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:05:12 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <uu7nuvsbgno1c7@news.supernews.com>; from johnroth@ameritech.net on Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 03:56:12PM -0500
References: <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE040DF.EACC7D3A@kolumbus.fi> <yfsbs4ebhnl.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DE2AEFE.BF188406@kolumbus.fi> <3DE2B626.6000009@nyc.rr.com> <uu7nuvsbgno1c7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20021128000512.T11257@prim.han.de>

John Roth wrote:
> 
> "Kenny Tilton" <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:3DE2B626.6000009 at nyc.rr.com...
> >
> >
> > Martti Halminen wrote:
> > > Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> >
> > >>Well, if you prefer then elt is inconsistent :)
> > >
> > > Sure it is. We are talking about a language that had as one of its
> > > primary design criteria at least some compatibility with existing
> code
> > > bases in its predecessors, so many design warts had to be retained.
> > > Obviously not a problem for people getting to define their language
> on a
> > > clean slate.
> >
> > And this will set an upper bound on how far Python can go, with an
> > obligation not to break all the stuff piling up in the Vaults. (Not
> that
> > I am aware of any actual desire to take the language in new
> directions;
> > I get the feeling "less is more" was the Prime Directive.)
> 
> I believe he was talking about Lisp in that paragraph, not Python.
> However,
> your comment re. Python is IMO correct; there's a desire to avoid
> gratuitously breaking older code in newer releases. However, that hasn't
> stopped things like the integer division change, or the new yield
> keyword for generators. Both of those *will* break code.

How does the introduction of 'yield' break old code?  

cheers,

    holger



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Nov  4 19:12:15 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 00:12:15 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
 <usdq1tapaekk87@corp.supernews.com>
 <87vg3dt21t.fsf@simoncozens-2.dsl.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <h0rpqKAfzwx9EwiH@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

.
....
>> This thought inspired enthusiasm in others long ago--from
>> before it was named "Parrot", at least.
>
>Particularly myself; in fact, it was named Parrot precisely to represent its
>language-agnosticism. 
.... here in Wandsworth the name Lucky Parrot has long belonged to a
Grey that has been incarcerated in a small cage for twenty years.
Calling such a bird dead would be a mercy.  
-- 
Robin Becker


From pajer at iname.com  Mon Nov  4 23:51:21 2002
From: pajer at iname.com (Gary Pajer)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:51:21 -0500
Subject: wxPython style question
References: <cCWdnVnrY5HsSlugXTWcog@comcast.com> <mailman.1036454826.744.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <QX-dnXsLkfDR01qgXTWcoA@comcast.com>

"Cliff Wells" <LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1036454826.744.python-list at python.org...
> BTW, if you're *that* concerned about aesthetics, avoid GUI programming
> - you'll go mad trying to balance your sensibilities with the
> possibility of getting anything useful done ;)
>
> > Am I missing some key point?
>
> GUI programming sucks.  wxPython just makes it suck less.

Thanks.  I thought there was something wrong with me ... :)




From spon at cisco.com  Tue Nov 12 21:18:05 2002
From: spon at cisco.com (Tom McDermott)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:18:05 +1100
Subject: newbie question: how to get directory of script?
References: <4cce07d5.0211120957.6d4934@posting.google.com> <aqrhuf$qg6$1@news.vcd.hp.com>
Message-ID: <3DD1B65D.AE624740@cisco.com>

djw wrote:
> 
> os.getcwd()
> 
No such luck. This (at least on linux) returns the directory from which
the script is invoked, rather than the directory of the script.

I use sys.path[0], but that doesn't seem to be the official method.

Tom


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Wed Nov 13 17:40:04 2002
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:40:04 GMT
Subject: Local drives on Win32 with win32api
In-Reply-To: <3DD2A357.4000308@gmx.de>
References: <3DD2A357.4000308@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <8xAA9.24562$eX.64575@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Uwe Becher wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I'm trying to get information about local drives on a win32 box. Using 
> win32api.GetLogicalDriveStrings() and win32api.GetDiskFreeSpace(drive) 
> works nearly perfect - except: I get all the network drives mapped to a 
> drive letter too!
> 
> Is there a way to get information, if a drive is local or remote?
> May be I missed the point reading the documentation.
> 

win32file.GetDriveType()

Mark.



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Fri Nov  1 01:14:20 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 06:14:20 GMT
Subject: could python serve web scripts ?
References: <mailman.1036123142.8986.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0Zow9.3620$mN6.1025961@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"black" <blackprogramming at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1036123142.8986.python-list at python.org...
Howdy~
  I'm learning ASP these days and bothered VBScript much, I want to kick it
off and I wonder if Python could be substitution. and what about other
scripts if not, thanx~

you can use Python for active server pages.  here's an example how ...

#-------------------------------
<%@ Language=Python %>
<%
def get_version():
    return '0.1'
%>

<HTML>
My Python ASP Script, version
<%
Response.Write(get_version())
%>
</HTML>
#--------------------------------

There are many weird things, and things that won't work though (like *.pth
files in your path), so it is worth searching google groups to get a feel
for them.  It is also worth looking into other servers like apache +
mod_python or medusa or plenty of others which deal with python a little
better.  Really you should only use iis + Python if you have no choice about
using iis.  Really you should only use iis if you have no choice about using
iis.

-d




From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Sun Nov 10 22:16:55 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:16:55 +1300
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <3DCD8571.6CACEA04@alcyone.com> <ud6pe48gl.fsf@online.no> <aqkaeq$7de$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <3DCF2127.8080602@something.invalid>

Pascal Costanza wrote:

> In Common Lisp, you can have:
> 
> (paint circle :on canvas :at point)
> 
> Given that you have defined paint as follows:
> 
> (defun paint (&key on at)
>    ...)


Python still goes one better, because (for user-defined
methods at least) you can supply arguments by keyword even
if they *haven't* been declared that way!

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From jtk at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  1 13:39:55 2002
From: jtk at yahoo.com (Jeff Kowalczyk)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:39:55 -0500
Subject: Passing parameters to obj found by path expressions in ZPT?
References: <apuhj9$bpd$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <apuhoh$cfe$1@main.gmane.org>

My apologies, this was intended for the Zope list. Pilot error.







From imbosol at vt.edu  Tue Nov  5 16:15:09 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:15:09 -0500
Subject: power TypeErrors
References: <mailman.1036529766.5188.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aq9cf2$iku$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

anton wilson wrote:
> I'm trying to understand the possible type errors for **
> 
> The language reference states that
> 
> 
> The power operator has the same semantics as the built-in pow() function, 
> when called with two arguments: it yields its left argument raised to the 
> power of its right argument. The numeric arguments are first converted to a 
> common type. The result type is that of the arguments after coercion; if the 
> result is not expressible in that type (as in raising an integer to a 
> negative power, or a negative floating point number to a broken power), a 
> TypeError exception is raised. 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm running code such as: 
> 
> 1 ** -2
> -1.2 ** 0.5
> 
> and there is no type error.
> 
> How do I generate a type error?


(-1.2) ** 0.5

It seems strange at first, but the ** operator is stronger than the
negative sign: Python sees "-1.2 ** 0.5" as "-(1.2**0.5)".  Of course,
that's the convention in mathematical notation.

1 ** -2 does give me a type error.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Nov  7 12:16:53 2002
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:16:53 -0000
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036637768.2375.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnasl805.d1h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <mailman.1036637768.2375.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters wrote:
> You didn't answer the question about what you *intended* 0x80000000 to mean.

I intend it to mean a set bit followed by 31 cleared bits.

> The answer to your question follows from that.  If you intended a 1 bit
> followed by 31 zero bits, then, no, -0x7fffffff-1 doesn't mean that on some
> platforms even today (or even in 1993, for that matter <wink>).

What platforms doesn't it mean that on? What does it mean on those
platforms? Are you talking about platforms with 16-bit integers?
If so, I don't care.


From mis6 at pitt.edu  Fri Nov 22 12:46:09 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 09:46:09 -0800
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com>

Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> wrote in message news:<arj3lf$ar1$1 at newsreader2.netcologne.de>...

> Could you try to describe what it means to you to think in Python? What 
> makes it different from thinking in other languages? (This is not a 
> rhetorical question!)

Sorry for my late reply, but I see than others have addressed your question
better than I could have done myself. In short, you see that you start 
*thinking* in a given language when:

i) you see the difference between your actual code an the code you wrote 
when you started to learn the language; 

ii) you realize that constructs that at beginning seemed awkward and/or 
bizarre to you are now natural;

iii) you kept solving the problems with the specific tools the language gives
you, not with the tools you already knew from other language;

iv) you know the mistakes you can do in that language and you "naturally"
avoid them.

v) the code in the standard library starts making sense to you, when 
immediately after having read the tutorial seemed a strict cousin of 
Arabic (no offence to Arabic speakers intended ;-).

Of course you can substitute the word "language" in the previous list with
others; the process is the same when you learn a particular field of
mathematics, physicis or engineering, and probably the same for humanistic
subjects too (the comparison with natural languages having already been done).

Finally, I would like to comment on a point raised by Norm, that you can
read 8 books without learning a concept, and then suddenly it becomes cristal 
clear in the 9th, simply because the author "make sense" to you. I don't
disagree on that, but I want to add an experience I had many times in
learning Python. I read a book and I tought I understand a lot, except some
minor points; then I put the book apart and start coding. Months later, 
I am involved in a difficult problem and I am near the solution, but not
yet. Then, by chance, my eye goes in the book: and immediatly I recognize
that in the skipped parts ("the minor points") there is the solution to my 
problem. Yet, when I first read the books, that pages made no sense to me, 
I was incapable to see their relevance until my mind started working on that 
particular problem. At this point I recognize that the designer of the 
language has already solved the problem for me, or mostly solved, and 
then I *truly* start to appreciate the value of that language. Also, it is
very different to read a book on a language tricks and tips (i.e. the
Python Cookbook) starting from no background (in this case very few of the
book will stick in you), or reading it after having spent many hours in
thinking to some of the same problems: then the  solution will stick in 
your mind!

Conclusion: the SAME book can be very valuable of very useless, depending
on the state of your knowledge. I could give many examples of references
I catalogued "useless" few months ago, than now have the label "very 
interesting" in their first page (typically I write in the first page
my comment on the book; but I write it with pencil... ;-)

--
Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/


From ml at knorke.in-berlin.de  Fri Nov 29 09:13:39 2002
From: ml at knorke.in-berlin.de (ml)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:13:39 +0100
Subject: Python and ONC RPC anyone?
Message-ID: <20021129141339.GA29515@k6.in-berlin.de>

Hi,

has anyone ever used RPC (Sun RPC/ONC RPC) from Python?  How
did you do it?  In my case it has to be done on Windows
NT/2k/XP.  I searched, but did not find an RPC module.  Do I
have to make my own module from the rpcgen-generated C code?
If so, what is the easiest way?  SWIG?

Thanks in advance!




From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Nov  1 17:42:00 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:42:00 -0500
Subject: Abort in garbage collector in 2.2.2
In-Reply-To: <m3bs59lz8b.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIECGCFAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[x0phe at netscape.net (Christophe) gets an assertion error during gc]
> Any idea what could cause this?

It's an internal error, so please open a bug report on SourceForge.

If you have a reproducible test case, it would also help to try it under
current CVS Python.  There are more asserts in gcmodule under current CVS,
and they may catch the problem closer to its source.  For example, I've seen
this assert trigger in the 2.3 visit_decref():

		assert(gc->gc.gc_refs != 0); /* else refcount was too small */

when buggy code failed to do a required Py_INCREF.  visit_decref() is called
very early in gc, and this helped to nail the problem.  Under 2.2 such a
problem won't be caught during visit_decref; instead gc_refs will "go
negative", and all bets are off after that.




From whrauser at erols.com  Sun Nov 24 11:32:44 2002
From: whrauser at erols.com (walt)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:32:44 -0500
Subject: Regular expression question
References: <9a5f3d1c.0211231857.78125e43@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038109173.3313.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DE0FF2C.1B812B54@erols.com>

Sorry, hit the wrong key.

One small correction to this section:

                fname = s.group(1).lower()
                try:
                    f = function_map[fname]     # was [s],  s is match object.
                except KeyError:

Walt

jepler at unpythonic.net wrote:

> You're doing a number of "unpythonic" things in this code.  It's best to
> learn to speak Python like a native, to get beyond building up a "phrasebook"
> to translate Perl statements into Python statements.
>
> The biggest "unpythonic" thing is referring to an arbitrary global
> variable by its name at runtime.  This is very bad, since it lets a
> user refer to any function.  Besides that, you'll probably encapsulate
> the Python version in a module (since it's longer than a line or two),
> but the Python "globals()" returns the globals of the current module,
> not the calling module.
>
> Anyway, here's an attempt at a Pythonic version of the perl code you
> posted.  Yes, it's longer than the Perl version.  To use it, you'd write
>
>         def f(s): return s.upper()
>         def g(s): return s.title()
>         function_map = {'f': f, 'g': g}
>         print substitute_template("The lessons are: '%%f%%' and '%%g%%'",
>                                   function_map, "python is not perl")
>         # Test out error handling
>         print substitute_template("At the tone, time time is 10PM: %%z%%",
>                                   function_map,    "")
>
> (The third argument corresponds to $variable in your example)
>
> Here's the code to implement the 'substitute_template' function:
>         import re
>
> # Since python wouldn't just refer to a global 'variable', a Subfunc
> # class records the desired argument and the function map for later use.
> # You can call a Subfunc instance just like it was a plain function
>         class Subfunc:
>             def __init__(self, function_map, arg):
>                 self.function_map = function_map
>                 self.arg = arg
>
>             def __call__(self, s):
>                 fname = s.group(1).lower()
> # Error handling should probably be more sophisticated.
> # But hell, it's better than terminating the whole program...
>                 try:
>                     f = function_map[s]
>                 except KeyError:
>                     return "*** ERROR: bad substitution %r ***" % fname
>                 return f(self.arg)
>
> # Compile the regular expression, since we expect to be matching it frequently
>         subre = re.compile("%%(.?)%%")
>
> # Here's the function you call.  It creates a Subfunc instance and passes
> # it on to re.sub
>         def substitute_template(template, function_map, arg):
>             return subre.sub(Subfunc(function_map, arg), template)
>
> Enhancing the code to let $variable be an arbitrary parameter list
> is fairly easy.  You'll need to learn about *args (and maybe **kw)
> parameters, and either the f(*args, *kw) calling convention or the
> apply function.
>
> Jeff



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Nov 30 12:59:10 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:59:10 -0500
Subject: Python classes: how to find the name of (potential) parent class?
References: <3DE8F572.6080106@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3DE8FC6E.3040709@rogers.com>

Here's a simple function that should point you in the right direction. 
 Note that type(c) == types.ClassType for "classic" Python classes, but 
not for new-style classes in Python 2.2+, this code uses that to allow 
shortcutting the finding of bases for new-style classes.

Enjoy,
Mike

import types
def parents( c, seen=None ):
    """Python class base-finder"""
    if type( c ) == types.ClassType:
        if seen is None:
            seen = {}
        seen[c] = None
        items = [c]
        for base in c.__bases__:
            if not seen.has_key(base):
                items.extend( parents(base, seen))
        return items
    else:
        return list(c.__mro__)

class A:
    pass
class B(A):
    pass
class C(A):
    pass
class D(B,C,A):
    pass
class E(A,C,D):
    pass
class F(E):
    pass

print 'Classic classes'
print parents(A)
print parents(B)
print parents(C)
print parents(D)
print parents(E)
print parents(F)


class A(object):
    pass
class B(A):
    pass
class C(A):
    pass
class D(B,C,A):
    pass
class E(A,C,D):
    pass
class F(E):
    pass

print 'Now new-style classes'
print parents(A)
print parents(B)
print parents(C)
print parents(D)
print parents(E)
print parents(F)


Pierre Rouleau wrote:

> Is it possible to find, at run time, what are the parent class of a 
> given Python class?
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From paul.osman at sympatico.ca  Thu Nov  7 14:08:31 2002
From: paul.osman at sympatico.ca (Paul Osman)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:08:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Date/Time Conversion
In-Reply-To: <Wxyy9.39$4G5.14670@news.abs.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211071405420.18866-100000@fibonacci.posman.homelinux.com>

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, dapmco wrote:

> Im new to Python.. I have it installed on a win2k server. Im trying to
> figure out how to return the date if I enter a number corresponding
> to # of seconds since the Epoch
>
> Anyone know of a good site with example code??
>
> Dave

You'll want to look at the Python Library Reference for the
time module:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-time.html

Example code:

import time
time_stamp = 1036695674
print time.strftime("%B %d %Y", time.localtime(time_stamp))

Cheers,
-- 
Paul Osman
posman at linux.ca
http://paul.codecipher.com




From andrews at pcug.org.au  Fri Nov  8 20:47:38 2002
From: andrews at pcug.org.au (Avery Andrews)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:47:38 +1100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-DC177C.17122508112002@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9b8hqa.eo3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqhmib$ei8$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <eppstein-DC177C.17122508112002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0211091245120.23859-100000@supreme.pcug.org.au>

Perhaps because it's Perl 6?  I think a correct answer to why Python
is popular would also have to explain a lot about why Perl is (easy
reusablity of code, inclduing that written in other languages, would
surely be part of the joint answer).




From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Nov  2 12:28:27 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:28:27 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Python rulez
In-Reply-To: <200211020827.gA28RuO20251@mail2.infinito.it>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211022026460.6709-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Alessandro Bottoni wrote:

>> So, how big a cut of the royalties from the Nutshell book will
>> Alessandro get?
>>
>
>I just bothered Alex long enough to force him to study Python. Not a 
>hard work, given the intellectual habits of Alex: he is looking around 
>for new and interesting ideas all the time. Python almost made the work by 
>itself.
>
>At the moment, I'm looking for people interested in advocating and supporting 
>GNU Enterprise (http://www.gnuenterprise.org) and the technologies that it 
>uses (wxWindows, wxPython and so on) so...  you have been warned ... ;-)

Have you visited PythonCard people yet?


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by Linux RedHat 7.3





From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Thu Nov 28 09:24:22 2002
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:24:22 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyfy97ew0o7.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <3de62746$0$71652$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

"Jacek Generowicz" <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> 
> I still fail to see why you think colour highlighting is necessary, or
> even useful for this. Emacs highlights matching parentheses, brackets
> and braces for me. 

It should be noted that in a vanilla configuration Emacs only blinks
parens as they are typed.  But thanks for mentioning this, you
prompted me to go discover mic-paren, which is sweet.

>I would find it hard to believe that other editors
> do not have such capabilities. (If your editor cannot provide such a
> feature, well, it might be time to reconsider your choice of editor.)

Sometimes my editor of choice is a printout with handwritten annotations. 

anyone-know-a-tool-for-matching-parens-on-a-piece-of-paper?-ly y'rs, Anders




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov  7 17:54:16 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 22:54:16 GMT
Subject: embedding error
References: <uslonkijj2aq66@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <saCy9.3884$Bs5.116845@news1.tin.it>

Lance wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> The code in section 5.3 of the Python "Extending and Embedding the Python
> Interpreter" won't compile for me. I get a link error,
> 
> LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "python22_d.lib"
> 
> I include stdafx.h and python.h at the top of my C program.
> 
> Python22_d.lib is not on my machine. I'm running a recent release of
> PythonWin.
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Use a "release" configuration of your Visual C++ project, NOT a
"debug" configuration.


Alex



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Nov  1 23:23:56 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 23:23:56 -0500
Subject: Classes question
References: <20021031205456.GA8006@ens-lyon.fr> <aps64h$8h2$1@panix1.panix.com> <20021101045342.GA1737@ens-lyon.fr>
Message-ID: <apvk0s$ge2$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <20021101045342.GA1737 at ens-lyon.fr>,
Emmanuel Jeandel  <E_Jeandel at mail.dotcom.fr> wrote:
>Il est arriv?, un jour, ? Aahz d'?crire :
>> In article <20021031205456.GA8006 at ens-lyon.fr>,
>> Emmanuel Jeandel  <E_Jeandel at mail.dotcom.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>I have the following code : 
>>>
>>>class A:
>>>	  def __init__(self):
>>>	  	  pass
>>>
>>>	  def f(self):
>>>	  	  self.x = B()
>>>
>>>class B(A):
>>>	  def __init__(self):
>>>	  	  A.__init__(self)
>>>
>>>
>>>I would like to have the class A and the class B in two differents files.
>>>Is it possible ? 
>>>I think that it is not directly possible, but if there is a mean with a
>>>small change in the code...
>> 
>> Assuming you put the code for A in classA.py, you can make class B work
>> by adding the line
>> 
>> from classA import A
>> 
>> before the "class B" statement.
>
>Obviously no. Please note that A needs to know about B in this example
>(line: self.x = B() in the class A).

Ouch.  I can think of several ways around this, but your current
question is too ambiguous to have any idea about the best way.  What
you're doing is pretty ugly.  
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Project Vote Smart: http://www.vote-smart.org/


From rmunn at pobox.com  Sun Nov 17 02:44:55 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:44:55 GMT
Subject: Accessing Dictionary values from within the Dictionary
References: <h10B9.797$v14.274678940@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <slrnateifr.5ot.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Kuros <kuros at pgtv.net> wrote:
> Hi again,
> 
> I have created a dictionary, like so:
> 
> dict = {var1 : 0, var 2: 0}
> 
> Now, i want the third key/value pair to equal the total values of var1 and 
> var2. I tried to do it this way:
> 
> dict = {var1 : 1, var 2 : 2, var3 : dict[var1] + dict[var2]}
> 
> But I get an invalid syntax error.
> 
> Could someone help me out with this?

Others have posted code that will work, so I will limit myself to one
code-related comment: don't use dict as a variable name, *ever*. Nor
int, str, list, tuple... Those are not reserved words, so Python lets
you use them as variable names -- but by doing so, you're shadowing a
built-in function, which is a Bad Idea and will cause much confusion
(and subtle bugs) later on when you're not expecting problems.

Now, the concept you need to understand here is precisely how assignment
works: *first* the right-hand side is evaluated, and only *after* that
does the result get bound to the name on the left-hand side. So in your
example, at the time that "dict[var1]" and "dict[var2]" get evaluated,
there is no dictionary named dict and so these expressions fail. But
the following code will work:

the_dict = {'var1': 1, 'var2': 2}
the_dict['var3'] = the_dict['var1'] + the_dict['var2']

When the RHS of the second statement is evaluated, the name the_dict is
already bound to a dictionary object that has keys 'var1' and 'var2'.
(BTW, make *sure* you understand the difference between "dict[var1]" and
"dict['var1']"! If you don't understand the difference between those two
expressions, you *will* have problems.) So the expression
"the_dict['var1'] + the_dict['var2']" works and evaluates to 3; then 3
is stored in the_dict['var3']. Note that this does *not* work like a
spreadsheet: if you later change the_dict['var1'], the_dict['var3'] will
*not* be recomputed.

Hope this helps you understand this better.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From jhibschman at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  1 13:20:24 2002
From: jhibschman at yahoo.com (Johann Hibschman)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 10:20:24 -0800
Subject: mxDateTime install problem - SunOS 5.8 - mxstdlib.h varargs conflicts
Message-ID: <41b772c.0211011020.4f4e8b45@posting.google.com>

Hi folks,

I don't know if this is a compiler, OS, or python problem, but I
thought this would be the right place to ask.

I just tried to install egenix-mx-base-2.0.4 using gcc 2.95.3 under
SunOS 5.8 with Python 2.2.2.  I unpacked everything, did a "python
setup.py install" and got the following error messages:

building extension "mx.DateTime.mxDateTime.mxDateTime" (required)
building 'mx.DateTime.mxDateTime.mxDateTime' extension
e/mxDateTime.o
In file included from mx/DateTime/mxDateTime/mx.h:51,
                 from mx/DateTime/mxDateTime/mxDateTime.c:41:
mx/DateTime/mxDateTime/mxstdlib.h: In function `mxDebugPrintf':
mx/DateTime/mxDateTime/mxstdlib.h:192: `__builtin_va_alist' undeclared
(first use in this function)
mx/DateTime/mxDateTime/mxstdlib.h:192: (Each undeclared identifier is
reported only once
mx/DateTime/mxDateTime/mxstdlib.h:192: for each function it appears
in.)
mx/DateTime/mxDateTime/mxstdlib.h:150: warning: `args' might be used
uninitialized in this function
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

Now, __builtin_va_alist seems to be some mysterious Sun macrology to
optimize the variable arguments, but I can't quite tease out what is
going wrong here.

Does anyone have any suggestions, or perhaps a better forum in which
to ask?

Thanks,

--Johann


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 26 01:23:50 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:23:50 -0800
Subject: variable name and type confusion...
References: <arufnn$nt8$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <m14vra.4f4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

eugene kim fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 25 November 2002 
10:37 pm:

> after table_name = Graph(table),
> graphs.append(table_name) appends string type not Graph type
> 
> if i do exec "table_name = Graph(table)"
> graphs.append(table_name) appends Graph type..
> 
> is this expected behavior?
> i'm using python 2.2.1
> 
> table_list = ['abc', 'def']
> tables['abc'] = Table(a)
> tables['def'] = Table(b)
> 
> graphs = []
> def tests(Graph):
>     for table_name in table_list:
>         table = tables[table_name]
>         table_name = Graph(table) <--------------here
>         graphs.append(table_name)

        Where is the rest of the program? IOW, how are you calling function 
"tests"... What is being passed into the function to be argument Graph.

        Also, you need to define graphs as global to get your results out of 
the routine.

        Heck, why are you tring to assign to the loop variable? You're using 
"table_name" in two different ways; it is possible that the next loop 
cycle is changing what you thought you appended.



-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From shalehperry at attbi.com  Sat Nov  2 03:44:59 2002
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 00:44:59 -0800
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
In-Reply-To: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <200211020044.59060.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On Friday 01 November 2002 20:06, Aahz wrote:
> So I've been having a friendly argument for a long time with a friend of
> mine who's a real Java booster.  The current iteration was sparked by a
> discussion of extreme programming, where along the way I repeated what
> some people here have mentioned about Python being easier to refactor
> than Java.  She asked me what -- if any -- Java-based tools were used by
> the experienced Java programmers who made that claim.  She thinks that
> those tools are superior to plain text editors (which are really all
> that's needed for Python).
>
> Anyone wanna help me out here?

if trained to use a tool you are good with a tool.  If trained to accomplish 
the task by hand you can be just as good that way.  Each developer approaches 
code differently.



From imbosol at vt.edu  Fri Nov  8 21:06:43 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:06:43 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9b8hqa.eo3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqhmib$ei8$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <eppstein-DC177C.17122508112002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <aqhqn4$kns$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

David Eppstein wrote:
> In article <aqhmib$ei8$2 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
> Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Python is more like Lisp than most other languages, though.  It's
>> similar semantically.
> 
> This makes little sense to me.  Even the most basic data structures are 
> different: Lisp is based around singly linked lists while Python uses 
> vectors (with efficient random access unlike Lisp lists) and 
> dictionaries.

Well, I think the data structures are similar, if you look at the
whole picture instead of just two types that share a name.

Excepting the list types of both languages, neither of which has a
built in analogue in the other, the structures are similar.  Python
tuples are like Lisp vectors.  Python dicts are like Lisp hash arrays.
Functions are first class objects in both languages.

The numeric system is similar (except Lisp has rationals), it has
similar coercion rules, they treat division problems similarly (i.e.,
distinguishing true and floor division).

The object systems of the languages share some peculiarities.  Classes
are objects in both Lisp and Python.  In fact, from Python 2.2 on, the
built-in class framework are analogous: Lisp standard-class = Python
type, Lisp standard-object = Python object.  Obviously, Lisp's
multiple-dispatch methods are far different from Python methods.

And, getting get back to lists for a second, despite the fact that
they are different, a lot of languages don't even *have* lists built
in.

In the end, I think Python and Lisp have similar data structures that
serve similar purposes.  Can you think of any languages that have data
structures more similar to Lisp's than Python?  I don't think there
are too many.


> They are also not especially similar in programming 
> style, although both are capable of being used with a wide variety of 
> styles.

Yes, but hardly any language has a programming style similar to Lisp.


> The most important similarity I see is that in both languages, 
> values have types but variables are untyped, but that was also true in 
> radically different languages such as Snobol and APL; is that really 
> enough to conclude that Python and Lisp are more like each other than 
> anything else?

Well, I think that's big.  On a related note, they are both highly
dynamic.


Let me clarify something, though: I said Python is a lot closer to
Lisp than most other languages are.  I didn't say Python is
necessarily similar, just less unsimilar.

And the converse isn't true: Lisp is not closer to Python than most
other languages are.  Python has a lot of friends; Lisp stands far
away from the crowd and hangs out with it's dialectal buddies.  But,
Python is standing on the end of the crowd closest to Lisp.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From jmpurser at attbi.com  Sun Nov 17 11:50:36 2002
From: jmpurser at attbi.com (jmp)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:50:36 -0700
Subject: Reading Bluebird/Superdos Index files
Message-ID: <ar8h7r$3pn$1@main.gmane.org>

Hello,

My company has a legacy application originally coded in Business Basic for
the SuperDos operating system by BlueBird.  I can read the data files but
the index files are a problem.  I've tried the whichdb module and got an
empty string.

Has anyone else run up against this format or can you give me some
suggestions for deciphering the structure of these index files?

Thanks,

John Purser







From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Nov 26 09:47:45 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:47:45 -0600
Subject: Newbie IDLE - import issues
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302F89D23@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Kenny Tilton [mailto:ktilton at nyc.rr.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 8:34 AM
> 
> I must misunderstand things badly.
> 
> Using IDLE: I have import statements where apparently 
> necessary. I hit Ctrl-F5 and I see print statements at
> the end of imported modules fire.
> 
> But I still get errors on imported stuff being undefined.
> 
> Then I open the imported file and ^f5 it and then I can ^f5 
> successfully the importing file which before gave me an error.
> 
> any help with this would be appreciated. As is I end up 
> having to open ten files and run them manually every morning.
>

Without more information ("detailed" information :-)
I can only say that this sounds like some module you're
trying to import isn't in your sys.path.  BUT, since
you load it in IDLE and <F5> it, and *then* load (into
IDLE I suppose) the "importer" module, and now it runs
correctly, everything works as it should.

Python only imports a module once, and any subsequent
import only loads the pertinent references into the target
namespace, without actually loading the module from storage.

You can check which modules you have loaded at any time
by checking sys.modules, which is a dictionary of all
currently imported modules.

You can also check sys.path to see which directories
are checked for module imports.

And, with more information we might help s'more ;-)

g'day!

-gustavo



From arivu at qmaxtest.com  Fri Nov 15 08:01:48 2002
From: arivu at qmaxtest.com (Arivazhagan)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 05:01:48 -0800
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037319270.11446.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c8476101.0211150501.2950b69c@posting.google.com>

Hi
We are extending python to develop a Board Description language for
ATE. say in our project there are 2 modules named a.py( provided by us
) and b.py.(the end user programs.)

In a.py
-------

import sys


class Good :
    def __init__(self, name ) :
        self.__name = name


def createGood( *names ) :
    for name in names :
       thisGood = Good( name )

#The following is done so that the objects created here can be
#accessed#from b.py without using the module name. 
#We just want to avoid this.
       sys.modules['__main__'].__dict__[name] = thisGood
   

In b.py
-------
from a import *

createGood( 'A', 'B', 'C' )

#We want to access like this without that additional codes. 
print A
print B
print C

regards
b.arivazhagan


From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Wed Nov  6 16:37:38 2002
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:37:38 +0100
Subject: pyqt rules
References: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <mailman.1036370164.21605.python-list@python.org> <2Dkx9.42039$Lg2.11444432@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1036400645.4450.python-list@python.org> <aq6gl5$k20$1@reader1.tiscali.nl> <3DC6E304.6070507@SPAMnwinternet.com> <3DC7B220.BF77CADB@philips.com> <3DC826E2.9070207@SPAMnwinternet.com>
Message-ID: <232cqa-o4j.ln@majestix.gallien.de>

Jim wrote:

> Gerrit Muller wrote:
> 
>>>from: http://www.trolltech.com/developer/faqs/noncomm.html
> 
>>>"What is the Qt Non-Commercial Edition for Microsoft Windows?
>>>-----------------------------------------------------------
> 
>>>You may freely use Qt Non-Commercial Edition for:
> 
>>>* Running software legally developed by others
>>>* Developing non-commercial software"
> 
>> I  am creating a freely accessible website
>> http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/index.html at
>> home as well as during working hours. At both places I work with
>> Windows (strongest dependency is the use of Visio). I maintain the
>> site by means of Python scripts. Taking the above license literal I
>> might use Qt at home for free, but not at work. Yes that is clear, but
>> not stimulating to dive in :-(
> 
> You should be able to run eric (which I believe
> was the main complaint). I would think that falls
> in the category "Running software legally developed
> by others"

As far as eric is concerned there is no problem whether you use it for 
the development of free software or commercial software because it is 
released under the GPL (see license file in the eric directory). 
However, if you make money with it, some donations would be welcomed.

> 
> It doesn't seem like you really need Qt for
> development, but if the website is non-commercial,
> the second category above should apply as well. I
> haven't read the license in a long time, but it
> sounds like restrictions are related to development
> only, not use.
> 
> However, I don't know if the non-commercial
> version of Qt is recent enough to support all of
> the new features coming in the next eric release.

As far as I know the NC version of Qt is still version 2.something which 
is definitely not good enough. Eric requires Qt version 3.x and the next 
eric release will require a recent version of PyQt and QScintilla as 
well.

> 
> 
> Jim

Detlev
-- 
Detlev Offenbach
detlev at die-offenbachs.de


From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Tue Nov  5 06:11:41 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 22:11:41 +1100
Subject: UDP broadcasts => 'Permission denied'
In-Reply-To: <j4lm481eia.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1036450093.4936.python-list@python.org> <slrnasf6kn.d5v.fang@calvin.fayauffre.org> <j4lm481eia.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <200211052211.41605.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 21:45, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Alexandre Fayolle <fang at free.fr> writes:
> > However, it could be interesting to provide more information for people
> > using non-unix systems where these manpages are not easily available.
>
> Most definitely. The current state is the direct result of
> contributors not having the energy to elaborate more, and thus refer
> to existing documentation whereever possible. Referring to existing
> documentation is a good thing, especially as the behaviour might
> change across systems.
There are many on-line (or downloadable) versions, here is an example.
http://www.tldp.org/docs.html#man
However the man pages are often a bit scant too, and may vary between 
different unix-type operating systems, or between different versions for a 
particular system.

> However, contributions to improve the documentation would be most
> welcome. Contributors should phrase the documentation carefully to
> point out potentially differences in behaviour across
> systems. E.g. the set of errno values you can get from a specific
> system call can vary, as does the set of available socket options,
> fcntl functions, etc.
This is somewhat difficult, because the actual behaviour for certain functions 
(sockets is probably a good example) may vary on a single installation, 
depending on which kernel is running (for example, I change my linux kernel a 
lot more often than I need to upgrade python!)

I tend to think it would be useful to point out the "reasonable subset" of 
safe options (probably somewhere between POSIX and SUSv3), and to indicate 
that use of certain options (for example PF_NETLINK) may not be portable 
between different operating systems.

And while I am consistently amazed at the quality and quantity of the 
documentation that python does have, I also recognise that continuing effort 
to maintain and expand documentation is a very draining process.

Brad

- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From s802645999 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 17 02:30:39 2002
From: s802645999 at yahoo.com (asdfasd asdfasdf)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:30:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Windows Nt directory names
Message-ID: <20021117073039.31348.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com>


hi

i wanted to execute a command somewhere in "program files" directory but can't seem to do it as it says : "c:\program" is not recognized as an internal command 

i have used :

import os

CMD = r'c:\program files\action.exe'

os.system(CMD)

how do i code so that the space in "program files" is recognized?

thanks

 



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
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From b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u  Sun Nov 10 05:15:35 2002
From: b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u (Ben C)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:15:35 +1100
Subject: Image merging within python - based tool (maybe OT)
References: <8ed56b42.0211092045.1e833602@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3dce315b@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

Have you checked out the Python Imaging Library, PIL? ...try
www.pythonware.com ... it is very good and I am almost 100% certain you will
be able to do this using it ... the other option may be to use the Python
bindings to The Gimp toolkit ...

cheers

Ben C

"R. Charles Henry" <trapforcannedmeatproduct at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8ed56b42.0211092045.1e833602 at posting.google.com...
> I'd like to ask the group's advice.
>
> My situation: I have two separate document images, both of the same
> format .png, .bmp, .jpg, or .tif. They are otherwise identical in size
> and file characteristics, having been produced from a larger-than-A4
> document using an A4 flatbed scanner. Each image contains a region of
> 'overlap' with the other.
>
> I need to find an open-source 'mosaicking' or 'blending' codebase,
> which will be capable of accepting both input images, and merging them
> to reproduce an image of the original larger-than-A4 document.
>
> This code is to be used within a tool I am creating using python, &
> I'd like to avoid the neccessity of having to manually set reference
> points on the input images. The code itself that I'm searching for
> doesn't need to be python, just accessible from it.
>
> Since the input images are 'flat', I don't require such features as
> projection adjustment etc, I just need some form of basic automatic
> 'merging'.
>
> Would anyone have any suggestions? Any pointers at all would be very
> gratefully received.
>
> TIA




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Nov 27 22:09:17 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:09:17 -0600
Subject: Skipping EOFs when using file objects?
In-Reply-To: <KefF9.141133$WL3.63739@rwcrnsc54>
References: <KefF9.141133$WL3.63739@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <20021127210906.A3548@unpythonic.net>

open the file in binary mode, or stop using DOS

Jeff



From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Nov  7 11:04:40 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:04:40 -0500
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in
 Python 2.4 and up
Message-ID: <cd07dcca30.cca30cd07d@icomcast.net>

[/F]
> According to the PEP, Python 2.5 will print warnings whenever you use
> long literals.  If the OP doesn't want warnings, he'll have to 
> change his code for 2.3, and change it back for 2.5.

Except that's so silly on the face of it, you know that won't actually 
happen.  I mentioned it to Guido, and he removed the warnings business 
from the PEP with no fuss.  So, no, there won't be warnings for long 
literals in the Python 2 line, the obvious solution is the correct 
solution (tack on an L to make ambiguous literals platform-
independent), and Python 3 is a new ballgame.




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Nov 16 06:40:37 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:40:37 +0100
Subject: Combinations (was Re: Permutations algoritm?)
References: <mailman.1037397424.5900.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar5au3$nmt$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:51:04 -0600, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

>Of a set of different items 'S', obtain all distinct subsets of 'n'
>items where all items in the subset are different.
>
>So, if I have, for example:
>
>   S = [ 0, 1, 2, 3 ]
>
>the universe of available subsets of 3 items would be:
>
>   s = [ (0, 1, 2),
>         (0, 1, 3),
>         (0, 2, 3),
>         (1, 2, 3) ]
>
>the universe of available subsets of 2 items would be:
>
>   s = [ (0, 1),
>         (0, 2),
>         (0, 3),
>         (1, 2),
>         (1, 3),
>         (2, 3) ]

In order to make the title conform to what is described above, I had
to start a new thread, I hope you will find it!

Below is my current state of the art combinations algo, I would
welcome improvements. It's a bit long perhaps, but its supports
indexed combinations and can index large sets.

Regards,
		Anton.

class combinations:
    
    def __init__(self,n,k):
        self.n,self.k = n,k
        self.count = self.noverk(n,k)
    
    def __getitem__(self,index):
        #combination number index
        if index > self.count - 1:
             raise IndexError
        result = []
        pos,n,k = 0,self.n,self.k
        treshold = self.treshold
        for i in range(k):
            offset, index = treshold(index,n-i-pos,k-i)
            pos += offset 
            result.append(pos+i)
        return result
        
    def noverk(self,n,k):
        #compute n over k
        result = 1l
        for i in range(k):
            result = result*(n-i)/(i+1)
        return result
    
    def treshold(self,val,n,k):
        #cumulative treshold on a diagonal of pascals triangle 
        cum,tresh,rest = 0,0,0
        noverk = self.noverk
        for i in range(n-k+1):
            x = noverk(n-i-1,k-1)
            cum += x
            if cum > val:
                rest = val + x - cum
                break
            tresh += 1
        return tresh, rest

def test():
    comb = combinations(4,2)
    print comb.count
    for c in comb:
        print c
    
if __name__ == '__main__':
    test()


From costanza at web.de  Fri Nov 22 17:06:07 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:06:07 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <mailman.1037993694.2261.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <arm9oa$but$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:
> Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> wrote previously:
> |I would like to know more specifically what features make Python
> |special to you. As Kenny put it, in what regards is Pythonthink
> |different from Otherlangthink?
> 
> I think studying the -Zen of Python- is an excellent start for an answer.
> And after that, it is an excellent intermediary.
> 
> One feature that is not directly a single one of the lines in -Zen- is
> the openness of Python.
[...]

> On the other hand, Python still maintains an obvious distinction (to
> keep my metaphor) between what is "in the scene" and what is behind it.
[...]

These things sound all very nice indeed. I have the gut feeling that 
Python could be an excellent surface language for Common Lisp. Like in: 
doing the easy and intermediary stuff in Python (on top of CL), and 
doing the really hairy stuff in CL.

(All the scripting languages I have seen so far rely on C for the hairy 
stuff - and I definitely don't like that. There should be some alternative.)


Pascal

P.S.: This is a very nice discussion and I have actually learned quite a 
bit from it. Furthermore, people seem to be very friendly here, and I 
appreciate that a lot.

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Nov  7 15:12:21 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 20:12:21 GMT
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in  Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036694589.11653.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqehf5$27i$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:42:13 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

>[Bengt Richter
>> How about
>>
>>     BIT31 = 1<<31
>>
>> and then use BIT31 wherever?
>
>That's currently platform-dependent in exactly the same way as 0x80000000,
>will also become platform-independent in Python 2.4, and also generates a
>warning in 2.3:
>
>>>> 1 << 31
>__main__:1: FutureWarning: x<<y losing bits or changing sign will
>            return a long in Python 2.4 and up
>-2147483648
>>>>
Ok, sorry, does
     BIT31 = 1L<<31
work?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Sun Nov 24 17:39:13 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:39:13 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <t8WdneLU3Lm8onygXTWcrg@comcast.com>; from tjreedy@udel.edu on Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 04:02:28PM -0500
References: <mailman.1038097779.22927.python-list@python.org> <yfslm3ibyb7.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <t8WdneLU3Lm8onygXTWcrg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20021124233913.O11257@prim.han.de>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> "Alexander Schmolck" <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:yfslm3ibyb7.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk...
> > Similarly also can't see a good conceptual or pragmatic reason why
> all lists
> > shouldn't have .get, .items. etc. indeed a .get method for sequence
> types
> > would be often quite useful and being able to write
> >
> >   for i, elt in seq.items():...
> 
> In 2.3, I believe, this will be spelled seq.enumerate()

    enumerate(seq)

as it works on lists, tuples and iterators. 

    holger



From theller at python.net  Tue Nov 19 15:39:52 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 21:39:52 +0100
Subject: need help porting ctypes to Linux
References: <8yzp5pgv.fsf@python.net> <idf5gXAQ3p29EwJo@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <n0o547l3.fsf@python.net>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> 
> I've certainly compiled libffi using cygwin under win32 in the past for
> Tcl use. I'll have a go at compiling a dll using mingw. 
> 

Hm, I thought of a .lib. Are MingW .lib files compatible with MSVC?
OTOH, a dll would also be fine.

> I have something that purports to be libffi 2.0 beta dated 1999, where
> is the latest version? 

Seems to be the same than what I have - I've got it by anon cvs from
http://sources.redhat.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/libffi/?cvsroot=libffi

Thanks,

Thomas


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  5 12:42:33 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:42:33 -0500
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ?
References: <JHEOKEOOLIGLDHCMAHMOOENPDPAA.marklists@mceahern.com> <mailman.1036484650.32647.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1P2dnfURAKiYnFWgXTWcqw@comcast.com>

"Patrick Carabin" <Patrick.Carabin at SciencesNaturelles.be> wrote in
message news:mailman.1036484650.32647.python-list at python.org...
When i try to use groups.google.com, i allways get the message :

?
Apache Tomcat/4.0.3 - HTTP Status 500 - No Context configured to
process this request

type Status report

message No Context configured to process this request

description The server encountered an internal error (No Context
configured to process this request) that prevented it from fulfilling
this request.
?

What can i do to answer a thread, please ?
-------------------

I have no idea what the above is about.  If you cannot access
groups.google.com, you have a problem with your ISP.  If you can,
click on Groups Help link at top right of page and faq 3. about
replying to articles.  (You might find other entries helpful also.)
TJR




From jrandom at mddd.com  Fri Nov 22 22:37:14 2002
From: jrandom at mddd.com (J. Random Hacker)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:37:14 -0500
Subject: wxPython crashing windows
References: <3DDAA93F.40007@cyberspace.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.23.03.37.14.141750@mddd.com>

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:12:31 +0000, trewornan wrote:

> Well the subject says it all - has anyone else found wxPython crashing
> windows (all the way to a blue screen). Even the most basic program seems
> to do this.
> 
> M

Yeah I think I have heard of this problem before. Turned out to be a case
of excessive operator headspace.



From rmunn at pobox.com  Thu Nov  7 10:20:22 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:20:22 GMT
Subject: OT: Abbreviations (was Re: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book))
References: <mailman.1036630990.6540.python-list@python.org> <20021107053837.29445.00002985@mb-mg.aol.com>
Message-ID: <slrnasl1dr.3cj.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 at 10:38 GMT, ACalcium <acalcium at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> Why can u teach this in CS2 when they learn

The word is "you", not "u".

You may not know this yet, but the rest of the Internet is *nothing*
like AOL. We prefer complete English words here, and "cute"
abbreviations like "2" for "to" (or "too"), "4" for "for", and "u" for
"you" just make the writer appear juvenile and immature. I'm not saying
that you *are* juvenile or immature, but that's how using those words
will make you appear.

The only shorthand that is commonly accepted and used on the broader
Internet is appreviations of entire words, like "FYI" for "for your
information" or "BTW" for "by the way".

HTH. ("Hope this helps"). HAND. ("Have a nice day").

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 10 10:18:19 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 15:18:19 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net> <Di3z9.8445$Bs5.288545@news1.tin.it> <aqkpmn$squ$0@216.39.172.122> <SSqz9.11815$Bs5.432435@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aqltbr$anh$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:51:30 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 08:02:43 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>> [...]
>>>
>>>This is more or less the end of the line in terms of what
>>>os.popen can offer -- due to buffering and suchlike there's
>>>no practical way for python to drive BOTH standard input
>>>and standard-output of another external program.
>> 
>> I think there *ought* to be a practical way, *and* amongst the batteries
>> ;-)
>> 
>> It's hard to believe that, for NT at least, someone out there
>> hasn't written a console proxy module that could interface to console
>> apps the way typing and viewing in a console window does, so something
>
>Never heard of one, as such, but the existence of an `expect` port
>to NT (done, as I recall, by intercepting a spawned process's calls
>to system console functions, which in turn took advantage of many
>curious quirks -- e.g., that setting breakpoints in system DLL's
>caused the system to copy-on-write duplicate specific pages of the
>system DLL's thus affected) does suggest something can be kludged
>up.  Probably not very solidly -- again I'm relying on memories of
>the "expect for NT" issues: if a spawned process got exceptions or
>multithreaded intensely the spawning process would eventually lose
>track of things.  And definitely not in such a way as to work for
>systems in the /95-/98-/ME line (no idea what would happen were one
>to try to reproduce those quirks in /2K-/XP -- particularly the
>"workstation"/"home" editions: MS, as I recall, was quite careful to 
>hobble them, particularly XP, to make sure the cheaper editions could
>not be used for "server-oid" functions, i.e. that one would have to
>buy costlier editions for the purpose).
>
Sounds awful.

>Cameron Laird posted a thoughtful critique of 'expect' recently on
>this group.  Combining those reflections, and the specific ones on
>the frailty and non-portability of the 'expect for NT' approach,
>lead me to consider that trying to make such functionality part of
>the Python standard library would be at best wasted effort (if one
>gave up when the unfeasibility became apparent) and at worst a
>tragedy (if one was able to block Python's next release indefinitely
>while trying to make the needed kludges semi-workable).
>
Sounds awful too.

>
>> As you point out, TMTOWTDI applies in spades, but if there's
>> a solid way to run a program to do what you want from the
>> console window command line, why shouldn't there be a solid
>> way to use that via something like the above? (Especially handy for
>> those who don't have compilers or ready knowledge to make C extensions).
>
>I think there shouldn't be yet another, semi-functional, not
>really portable, highly-kludgy way to attempt to provide a
>functionality that the underying OS doesn't support or even
>actively fight against.  People who don't have compilers &c
>are better advised (for Windows-only deployment) to use COM
>for most purposes, anyway.
>
You have certainly painted a gloomy picture. With all due respect,
I'd be interested in hearing Mark Hammond's opinion before totally
giving up.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Nov 25 10:43:40 2002
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:43:40 -0500
Subject: using del() to 'unimport'
References: <918bc22f.0211240425.68b8c282@posting.google.com> <20021124100338.29397.00000085@mb-cb.aol.com>
Message-ID: <JwrE9.85345$iw.77173@FE06>

"TeaAndBikkie" <teaandbikkie at aol.com> wrote ...
> >From: donnal at donnal.net  (Donnal Walter)
> >
> >When the the following module is imported, I want only 'MyClass' (NOT
> >'Useful' and 'Mixin1') to be publicly accessible.
> >
> >======= mymodule.py ==================
> >from utilities import Useful, Mixin1
> >
> >class MyClass(Useful, Mixin1): pass
> >
> >del(Useful)
> >del(Mixin1)
> >======================================
>
> One alternative is not to import the names in the first place, eg.
>
> import utilities
> class MyClass(utilities.Useful, utilities.Mixin1): pass
>
> Then you would only have "utilites" in the main namespace.
>

The implication of the original post is that MyClass is being defined in its
own module. In that case, wouldn't it make more sense to set the __all__
attribute in the module to decide which names are imported into the client's
namespace? From 6.12 in the Reference Manual:

"""
The public names defined by a module are determined by checking the module's
namespace for a variable named __all__; if defined, it must be a sequence of
strings which are names defined or imported by that module. The names given
in __all__ are all considered public and are required to exist. If __all__
is not defined, the set of public names includes all names found in the
module's namespace which do not begin with an underscore character ("_").
"""

So a simple

    __all__ = (MyClass, )

would seem to answer here.

regards
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/
Previous .sig file retired to                    www.homeforoldsigs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Nov  6 12:16:06 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:16:06 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
 <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net>
 <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com>
 <3pE8dhAtvNy9EwoQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3DC943CF.84A68F32@san.rr.com>
 <mailman.1036601108.23735.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sA6q3WAW5Uy9Ew4K@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1036601108.23735.python-list at python.org>, holger
krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes
......
>I wonder if it would be possible to modify/extend the python-VM to allow for
>"efficient" execution of C#.  We would be set, then, wouldn't we? 
>
>regards,
>
>    holger
>
I think the execution model of C# allows it to be jittable so unless
python enters a restricted mode the C# will be quite slow. 
-- 
Robin Becker


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 20 03:41:10 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 09:41:10 +0100
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <m3r8dg8wgp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> void call_back_into_python(void)
> {
>     PyThreadState *pts;
> 
>     PyEval_AcquireLock();
>     pts = PyThreadState_New(g_interp);
>     if (!pts)
>         Py_FatalErorr(...);
>     if (NULL != PyThreadState_Swap(pts)
>         Py_FatalError(...);
> 
>     /* now call Python functions */
> 
>     pts = PyThreadState_Swap(NULL);
>     if (!pts)
>         Py_FatalError(...);
>     PyThreadState_Clear(pts);
>     PyThreadState_Delete(pts);
>     PyEval_ReleaseLock();
> }

I suggest a simpler strategy:

   pts = PyThreadState_New(g_interp);
   if (!pts)
       Py_FatalErorr(...);
   PyEval_AcquireThread(pts);
   /* call Python functions */
   PyEval_ReleaseThread(pts);
   PyThreadState_Clear(pts);
   PyThreadState_Delete(pts);

> This was unneeded on Windows, I assume because on Windows
> PyEval_InitThreads() has been called before.  My question is: why do I
> have to call this function on Linux, but not on Windows?  Does it do
> any harm if I call the function when the ctypes module is loaded, or
> should I wait until the callbacks are actually needed?

I'm not quite sure why you don't have to call it on Windows; I would
expect it to crash there as well. You can call PyEval_InitThreads as
many times as you want.

Regards,
Martin



From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov  6 06:06:33 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:06:33 GMT
Subject: The Deitel book (was Re: Textbooks on Perl/Python)
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <m27kfsm2x8.fsf@python.net> <aq8qbh$ik0$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1036539728.6381.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZI6y9.77441$aL4.2400685@news1.tin.it>

Chris Gonnerman wrote:
   ...
> My favorite (so far) is Steve Holden's "Python Web Programming."
> It covers a lot of territory and includes a lot of neat stuff.
> 
> Also enjoyable to read.

As it happens, one thing I did just yesterday was get a birthday
present for a friend, bright but a newbie to programming in general,
who's studying Python -- and upon mature deliberation what I ordered
was indeed Steve's book.  Said friend has done some HTML authoring,
and I think Steve's coverage of many technologies relevant to web
programming as well as Python will be quite helpful to her, and she'll
also appreciate (I think) Steve's knack for friendly explanations and 
his readable style.

However, this thread started with a request for a *college-oriented*
textbook, including, in particular, exercises for each chapter, some
with the solution being also given in the book, some without; and
Steve's book does not qualify in that respect, while Deitel and
Deitel's does (though it seems from this thread that, out of the many
technical reviewers of the book, I'm more positive about the way it
finally came out than most others; I wonder how many other posters
to this thread have actually gone to the trouble of checking the
way the book did finally come out -- quite a bit better than the
last few drafts that were widely circulated among reviewers, IMHO,
although I'll be the first to admit that it's far from perfect).


Alex



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Thu Nov 14 14:47:20 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:47:20 -0600
Subject: python gui rant
References: <3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <qjDA9.6146$mN6.2823494@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <3dd3921c$0$223$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <T4TA9.53$P4.8357@news.uchicago.edu>

"Gumuz" <gumuz at looze.net> wrote in message
news:3dd3921c$0$223$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net...
> can you tell me more about this delphi(or vb)+pythonCOM  technique or
point
> me to some source?

***

> "dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
> news:qjDA9.6146$mN6.2823494 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> > "Gumuz" <gumuz at looze.net> wrote in message
> > news:3dd217e2$0$231$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net...
> >
> > > i am using wxPython at the moment as my python gui. Coming from a nice
> IDE
> > > like Delphi it's really frustrating to get a nice layout together. I

***

> > unless you are needing cross-platform-ination from your gui, why not
just
> > use Delphi and either use PythonCOM for the code.

Look into the Python for Delphi stuff as I think it might be the best way to
go.  For an example, however, of writing COM objects look for my reply in
the this news group from 11/11/2002 (3 days ago) under the subject "Create
DLL in Python ?"  Also, look at Mark Hammond's book available from
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=62-1565926218-0
it is essential reading.

-doug




From boud at valdyas.org  Sun Nov  3 13:55:35 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 19:55:35 +0100
Subject: pyqt rules
References: <3dc550fb$0$9008@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <mailman.1036344603.1495.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dc571d0$0$63818$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl>

Phil Thompson wrote:

> On Sunday 03 November 2002 4:39 pm, Rob Hall wrote:
>> Well I've been tinkering with pyqt for a few days now.  I must say it is
>> excellent.
>>
>> Developing a gui takes next to no time!  And I love the signal/slot
>> mechanism.
>>
>> Piec of cake!!
> 
> http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3_preview_en.html should make it
> even easier.
> 

Not too mention buying the book -- don't try Amazon,
they seem to have problems delivering, but at
http://www.opendocs.org/pyqt :-).
-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Nov  5 11:33:49 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 08:33:49 -0800
Subject: SSH/SCP
References: <Xns92BC9FE0EDD4Fmhueningzedatfuberli@130.133.1.4> <usd6h0f6d8g5b2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211050833.7367bf5f@posting.google.com>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<usd6h0f6d8g5b2 at corp.supernews.com>...
> In article <Xns92BC9FE0EDD4Fmhueningzedatfuberli at 130.133.1.4>,
> Matthias Huening  <mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I am looking for a SSH/SCP module that will work on Windows (2000/XP)
> >and allow me to connect to a Linux server. Suggestions? 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> pyssh <URL: http://pyssh.sourceforge.net/ >
> and the ssh module (twisted.conch) of Twisted
> <URL: http://www.twistedmatrix.com/ >.

I had a bad experience with pySSH. It only works (with a patch) on Linux. I
don't know about twisted but maybe it is overkill. I simply wanted to
transfer files from my laptop running windows to my desktop running linux.
In this case the simplest way to do is to download (for free) putty
ans use soomething like

os.system('pscp -pw %s %s %s' % (password,filename,hostname))

pscp (Putty secure copy) can also copy directories recursively with
the -r option. It is really a nice little program for simple things.


Michele


From duncan at rcp.co.uk  Fri Nov 29 10:53:45 2002
From: duncan at rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:53:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
References: <1038571003.6023.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <mailman.1038579643.30978.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns92D5A0F06C778duncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>

Oren Tirosh <oren-py-l at hishome.net> wrote in news:mailman.1038579643.30978.python-list at python.org:

>> My question now is, how can I assign names to the elements? Or is there
>> a better way of doing this? 
> 
> Many Python programmers use an empty class for this:
> 
Or a nearly empty class if you want to be lazier when creating
the objects:

>>> class Struct:
	def __init__(self, **args):
		vars(self).update(args)

		
>>> s = Struct(name="Duncan", email="me at somewhere")
>>> s.name
'Duncan'
>>> s.email
'me at somewhere'
>>> 


From owen at nospam.invalid  Tue Nov 12 14:44:16 2002
From: owen at nospam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:44:16 -0800
Subject: TclError: bad option "<whatever>": must be cget or configure
References: <lp%y9.15549$O71.6983@rwcrnsc53>
Message-ID: <aqrlor$23v8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

This sounds nasty.

I ran Wish to see if I could figure out what makes your error, and it's 
acting as if both "config" and the name of the option to be configured 
are missing:
frame .g
.g config -bg "red";  # correct
.g config "red"; # wrong
unkonwn option "red"
.g "red";  # wrong
bad option "red": must be cget or configure

I was not able to find an equivalent Tkinter command to produce this 
error message, but I don't claim to have tried everything. For instance:
f = Frame()
f.yellow()
AttributeError: Frame instance has no attribute 'yellow'
f["yellow"]
TclError: unknown option "-yellow"

Can you test the hypothesis that it's thread-related? Can you produce a 
short program that exhibits the problem that others can try?

Also, as sort of voodoo, you might try replacing your use of configure 
with the dictionary approach, e.g. frame["bg"] = "yellow", to see if 
this helps or changes the error message to something more useful.

-- Russell

In article <lp%y9.15549$O71.6983 at rwcrnsc53>,
 "Kevin at Cazabon.com" <kevin at cazabon.com> wrote:

>I'm having some weird Tcl errors, and can't seem to track them down, any
>help?
>
>1)  these are happening in multiple locations, when I use the "configure"
>method for widgets
>
>2)  the calls work 99.9% of the time, but when the system is under heavy
>load they fail with "TclError: bad option "yellow": must be cget or
>configure" errors
>
>3)  I'm using a valid "configure" command (such as
>self.label.configure(text="yellow")), and it seems to think I called
>"self.frame.yellow()" or self.frame.configure(yellow = xxx).
>
>
>My application is multi-threaded (3 threads total, all using locks/mutexes
>on shared objects, only one thread is doing Tcl stuff), and I'm using
>ActivePython 2.2.1 build 222.


From s802645999 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 14 20:25:07 2002
From: s802645999 at yahoo.com (asdfasd asdfasdf)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:25:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: displaying windows processes
Message-ID: <20021115012507.18263.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com>


hi

how do i display a list of windows 2000 running processes?? something like the ps in unix?

thanks



---------------------------------
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From jmarshal at mathworks.com  Tue Nov  5 16:03:35 2002
From: jmarshal at mathworks.com (Joshua Marshall)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 21:03:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com> <79b2b0bb.0211051239.61329fca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aq9bn7$eak$1@ginger.mathworks.com>

Scott Gilbert <xscottgjunk at yahoo.com> wrote:
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:
>>
>> Suppose I want to parse the following expression:
>> 
>> >>> exp='(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
>> 

> I'm not sure if you want to understand why simple regexps can't do
> what you want, or if you just want a solution to your problem.  Here
> is one path you could try:

>>>> from compiler import parse
>>>> parse(exp)

> Module(None, Stmt([Discard(Add((Add((Mul((Name('a'), Add((Name('b'),
> Mul((Name('c'), Sub((Const(2), Name('x'))))))))), Name('d'))),
> CallFunc(Name('f'), [Name('s1')], None, None))))]))

I wasn't aware of this one.  Much nicer than the output from the parser module.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 29 15:40:15 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 21:40:15 +0100
Subject: Python and ONC RPC anyone?
References: <mailman.1038579701.32261.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3y97ct8i8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

ml <ml at knorke.in-berlin.de> writes:

> has anyone ever used RPC (Sun RPC/ONC RPC) from Python?  How
> did you do it? 

I have not tried it myself, but Demo/rpc in the Python distribution
contains xdr and rpc code, as well as an nfs and mount client.

HTH,
Martin



From dansilva at lynx.dac.neu.edu  Mon Nov 18 22:16:52 2002
From: dansilva at lynx.dac.neu.edu (Daniel Silva)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:16:52 -0500
Subject: __bases__ and type()
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAsV/9ZPps7kaNgsdz13mKIcKAAAAQAAAAmcWmkAf9y06vP7Lb/Ex4EwEAAAAA@lynx.neu.edu>

Hello,

I am implementing a python compiler and got a bit confused about the
hierarchy of things in python.  I assumed I could have one structure
(call it node) with three fields: parents (a list of nodes), dict (a
hash-table), and is_mutable.
I would then create an instance of a node with no parents and call it
object.
The basic types: int, float, string, none, dict, list, function, class,
instance, tuple,  etc.. would then have object as the single item in the
list of parents.
User-built classes would have class as its only parent if they do not
have inheritance, and a list of super-classes in case they do.

However, given a class C, class D, and a class E that inherits from both
C and D, type(e) evaluates to ClassType, and e.__bases__ evaluates to
(c,d).

Did I get the organization of things incorrectly?  How else should I
organize it for type(), __bases__, and isinstance() to work as expected?


-----------------------------------
Daniel Silva
dsilva at ccs.neu.edu
 





From mikkelfj-anti-spam at bigfoot.com  Tue Nov 12 17:26:01 2002
From: mikkelfj-anti-spam at bigfoot.com (MikkelFJ)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:26:01 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DD11E7F.C12E708A@man.ac.uk> <LRaA9.1325$J55.292310@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>
Message-ID: <3dd17f27$0$195$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>

Sorry for the repost at perl, I didn't release the post was crossposted (I
entered via Ruby).


"Neil Madden" <nem00u at cs.nott.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:LRaA9.1325$J55.292310 at newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...

> Hmm.. the more I think about this, the more problems it seems to present.
I'd
> love to be able to write an extension, and have it instantly work with x
> different langauges. Also, I'd love to be able to use Python and Perl
> extensions from Tcl, without loading seperate interpreters and all that.
Am I
> dreaming of an impossible Utopia?

I wrote some DLL helper logic that makes it easy to query a vtable by name
in another DLL.
The vtables can be created in whatever way, but the vtable is not assocated
with allocated memory, as is the case with COM. This makes it quite flexible
without really being limited because one could decide that the first
function should return a 'this' pointer and the second function should be
the destructor, or whatever.

In any DLL that can link statically with a piece of C, you can use this
framework to pass functions around. (Even if you can only link dynamically,
you could have a helper dll to expose vtables). I use some #define macros to
create the vtables statically (see snippet below). It's then very easy to
take arbitrary C functions and wrap them up in one or more vtables. However,
vtables need not be statically allocated (and this is significantly
different from public dll functions).
Because the vtables are looked up by name initially, you could handle
versioning like in COM: "mycomponent.vtablename.1", where
"mycomponent.vtablename" would refer to the most recent version - but it is
preferable to always specificy an exact version.
Contrary to COM this is completely cross platform as there is no OS magic
involved.
When a vtable is created, it is helpful to write a C prototype struct that
matches, because this makes things easier clientside - but it is not
required (see snippet below).
On the clientside I wrote some small wrappers to ease loading dll's
dynamically and in C++ to wrap the optional prototype. I only did this for
Windows, but the principles are essentially the same on Linux, just like
Ruby loads .so files.

The framework is generic - here is what I did to access functionality in a
OCaml parser application I wrapped up as selfcontained dll - without using
public dll functions except for init, query vtable and uninit functions: I
picked all the most relevant OCaml API logic for allocating memory on the
OCaml runtime stack and created a set of vtables approximately one for each
.h file in the API. The Ocaml OCaml functions I wrote (parse_file) I had to
dynamically call a function to locate the OCaml function address. In the dll
init logic I performed this operation and added the result to a vtable
already prepared for the purpse. The client of the dll loads the dll, calls
init and then queries relevant vtables, but in principle has no clue that it
really is OCaml the executes the logic (in principle because in praxis I
wanted to know in order to efficiently allocate memory).

The same thing could be done in Ruby, wrapping rb_... functions into vtables
and having separate vtables for calling Ruby code - this vtables would be
created dynamically or at least filled dynamically.

Any language that supports C integration and dynamic link libraries can use
this framework.

Incidentally Parrot works a lot with vtables, so there could be some overlap
here (I didn't know that at the time I wrote the framework though).

I have not put the code online, but if anyone is interested, let my know.

Below is a readme snippet, a bit technical and not the only way to use the
framework (it would be possible to map Ruby functions into dynamically
created vtables for instance).

Mikkel

<snip>
    Interfaces are organized in vtable maps which are statically allocated
arrays of VtblMapEntries.

    VTBL_MAP_BEGIN(<vtbl_map_name>)
    VTBL_MAP_ENTRY(name, vtbl)
    ...  more entries here ...
    VTBL_MAP_END

    The name <vtbl_map_name> is later used be the linker, such that the map
can be hooked into a master
    map of all vtable interfaces compiled together.
    The master map is located in a central compilation unit such that new
vtable maps can easily be
    added to the master map without modifying the source of any of the
existing map providers.

    Before entering the map into the mastermap, it must be declared - unless
the map is earlier in the same
    compilation unit as the master map:

    VTBL_DECLARE_MAP(<vtbl_map_name>)
    ... more maps declared here ...

    Following the map declareations, there is a master map which is scanned
by the default lookup function:

    VTBL_MASTER_MAP_BEGIN(<vtbl_master_map_name>)
    VTBL_MASTER_MAP_ENTRY(<vtbl_map_name>)
    ... more master map entries here ...
    VTBL_MASTER_MAP_END

    Typically, a dynamically loaded library (dll) will have a purpose
specific mastermap using a selection
    of available vtbl interface maps.

    Example:
    we have the following functions in a .c file. Moreover, we have the
malloc and free functions
    from the std library. We want all four functions wrapped in two
interfaces: FooBar and Mem.

    First we create a header file for the interfaces:
    <file "examples.h">
    struct
    {
        int (*get)(int x);
        void (*set)(int x, int val);
        void *(*create)(int x);
    } ExamplesVectorVtbl;
    struct
    {
        void *(*allocate)(size_t size);
        void (*deallocate)(void *p);
    } ExamplesMemoryVtbl;
    </file>
    <file "examples.c">
    #include <memory.h>
    #include "vtbl.h"
    #include "examples.h"
    void set(void *p, int x, int val) { return ((int*)p)[x] = val; };
    int get(void *p, int x) { return ((int*)p)[x]; }
    void *create(int x) { return calloc(x * sizeof(int)); };
    ExamplesVectorVtbl { get, set, create } vector_vtbl;
    /* shows that existing library functions can be packaged as well */
    ExamplesMemoryVtbl { calloc, free } mem_vtbl;

    VTBL_MAP_BEGIN(examples_vtbl_map)
    VTBL_MAP_ENTRY("Examples.Vector", vector_vtbl)
    VTBL_MAP_ENTRY("Examples.Memory", mem_vtbl)
    VTBL_MAP_END
    </file>
    <file "master.c">

    /* to get vtbl.h and the lookup function in vtbl.c */
    #include "vtbl.c"

    VTBL_DECLARE_MAP(examples_vtbl_map)

    VTBL_MASTER_MAP_BEGIN(vtbl_master_map)
    VTBL_MASTER_MAP_ENTRY(examples_vtbl_map)
    VTBL_MASTER_MAP_END

    void *GetNamedInterface(char *name)
    {
        return vtbl_master_map_lookup(vtbl_master_map, name);
    }

    </file>
    <file "client.c">
    #include "examples.h"
    void *GetNamedInterface(char *name);
    void test()
    {
        /* since interfaces are static, pMem and pVec need not be
deallocated */
        Examples_Memory *pMem =
(Examples_Memory*)GetNamedInterface("Examples.Memory");
        Examples_Vector *pVec =
(Examples_Vector*)GetNamedInterface("Examples.Vector");
        void *v1 = pMem->allocate(sizeof(int[4]));
        void *v2 = pVec->create(4);
        pVec->set(v1, 2, 42);
        pVec->set(v2, 0, pVec->get(v1, 2));
        pMem->deallocate(v1);
        pMem->deallocate(v2);
    }
    </file>

    Typically the client would have loaded a dynamically linked library and
found the address of the published
    GetNamedInterface function. Once that function is avaible, it is easy to
access all the remaining functions
    via the named interfaces.

</snip>







From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 30 14:05:32 2002
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 30 Nov 2002 11:05:32 -0800
Subject: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
References: <3DE4448E.5080201@attglobal.net> <pan.2002.11.27.20.00.00.396116@NOSPAM.optushome.com.au> <f199e60.0211290156.729446bc@posting.google.com> <3b091a1c.0211290900.61d974e3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0211301105.77fa686e@posting.google.com>

Many users do not want downloads, not even of the thinnest client side
thing.
If their IE (or perhaps Mac) browser can not display it, forget it.
If your application needs a more sophisticated GUI then you can build
with HTML and CSS then it must be a game or something, not your
ordinary DB-query thingy.  Do *not* underestimate what you can do with
CSS.  I am still learning.

So what would be nice to have is an application that can help you
design and creates the HTML and CSS for you.  And connect those with
the server side program you have running.  You could use CGI or maybe
XML-RPC or whatever.  Well, I *think* that should be possible.  I
would like to see examples of that if they exist because I am
interested in something like that too, but still learning.

It would give you the means to write a portable server based
application that everybody can use by just pointing their browser at
it.


'''
Not me, I didn't open my peep.
'''


From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Nov 15 16:51:04 2002
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:51:04 -0600
Subject: Permutations algoritm?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302E0A83F@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: William Park [mailto:opengeometry at yahoo.ca]
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 3:42 PM
> 
> sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> > Does anybody have a clear, simple, permutations algorithm
> > in Python?
> 
> Would you care to explain this?  Permutation can mean 
> different things.
> Concrete example might be good...
>

Of a set of different items 'S', obtain all distinct subsets of 'n'
items where all items in the subset are different.

So, if I have, for example:

   S = [ 0, 1, 2, 3 ]

the universe of available subsets of 3 items would be:

   s = [ (0, 1, 2),
         (0, 1, 3),
         (0, 2, 3),
         (1, 2, 3) ]

the universe of available subsets of 2 items would be:

   s = [ (0, 1),
         (0, 2),
         (0, 3),
         (1, 2),
         (1, 3),
         (2, 3) ]

Any help?

-gus



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 13 04:16:59 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 10:16:59 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <m3lm3xkewk.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at gmx.de> writes:

> At least, the DTD would have to be extended and the tools would likely
> have to be adjusted. I'm quite sure that everything that the current
> customized LaTex suite uses can be done with Docbook/XML (or
> Docbook/SGML, which is a little more mature).

It strictly won't be Docbook anymore once extended.

Docbook *does* have its extension mechanisms: you can use the role
attribute available on many elements. For example, you could write

<chapter role="module">
  <title>Common String Operations</title>
  <titleabbrev role="standard">string</titleabbrev>

with the processing expectation that this has the same effect as

\section{\module{string} ---
         Common string operations}

\declaremodule{standard}{string}
\modulesynopsis{Common string operations.}

I think this is straining DocBook already - no existing processor
would deal with that correctly.

> Those who are working on the Python documentation will certainly not
> do this work for you, as they've better work to do. Namely, writing
> documentation and not fighting the toolchain. Adjusting the tools has
> been done once already, and that should suffice for a few years ;-)

I agree with your analysis. As for this last item: Most documentation
authors (atleast if I extrapolate from a single random sample, myself
:-) won't fight with the Latex tools. Instead, they edit the
documentation so that it looks right in the editor, and then let Fred
Drake fight with the tools. So at any point in time, there is a good
chance that the documentation has markup errors - unless somebody just
went over it and fixed them all.

Regards,
Martin


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Sat Nov 30 17:36:07 2002
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 01 Dec 2002 09:36:07 +1100
Subject: Threading problems at program exit
References: <m3hee02arn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <3de8931f$0$75603$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <m37keuptwo.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

Dave> The following program demonstrates a problem I am experiencing with
Dave> the threading module.  I have an object (A) which holds a lock on
Dave> another object (B).  When object A is deleted I want it to release any
Dave> lock it may still be holding on object B.

Dave> Everything works fine except when the program terminates.

Dave> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dave> import sys
Dave> import threading

Dave> class Locked:
Dave>     def __init__(self, lock):
Dave>         self._lock = lock
Dave>         self._lock_count = 0
Dave>         self._thread = None
Dave>         self._log = sys.stderr.write
Dave>         self._current_thread = threading.currentThread
Dave>         self.lock()

Dave>     def lock(self):
Dave>         self._log('locked in %s\n' % self._current_thread())
Dave>         self._lock.acquire()
Dave>         self._lock_count += 1

Dave>     def unlock(self):
Dave>         self._log('unlocked in %s\n' % self._current_thread())
Dave>         self._lock_count -= 1
Dave>         self._lock.release()

Dave>     def __del__(self):
Dave>         while self._lock_count:
Dave>             self.unlock()

Dave> obj = Locked(threading.RLock())
Dave> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dave> When I run this program I get the following:

Dave> locked in <_MainThread(MainThread, started)>
Dave> unlocked in <_DummyThread(Dummy-1, started daemon)>
Dave> Exception exceptions.AssertionError: <exceptions.AssertionError instance at 0x814fbfc> in <bound method Locked.__del__ of <__main__.Locked instance at 0x816e5f4>> ignored

Dave> It looks like interpreter is deleting thread objects before objects
Dave> which hold locks in those threads.  Is there any kosher way I can
Dave> avoid the problem?

Dave> The only way I can think to fix it is a bit non-kosher:

Dave> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dave> import sys
Dave> import threading

Dave> class Locked:
Dave>     def __init__(self, lock):
Dave>         self._lock = lock
Dave>         self._lock_count = 0
Dave>         self._thread = None
Dave>         self._log = sys.stderr.write
Dave>         self._current_thread = threading.currentThread
Dave>         self.lock()

Dave>     def lock(self):
Dave>         self._log('locked in %s\n' % self._current_thread())
Dave>         self._lock.acquire()
Dave>         self._lock_count += 1

Dave>     def unlock(self):
Dave>         self._log('unlocked in %s\n' % self._current_thread())
Dave>         self._lock_count -= 1
Dave>         self._lock.release()

Dave>     def __del__(self):
Dave>         if self._lock_count:
Dave>             count, owner = self._lock._release_save()
Dave>             self._log('owner was %s\n' % owner)
Dave>             owner = self._current_thread()
Dave>             self._log('owner is now %s\n' % owner)
Dave>             self._lock._acquire_restore((count, owner))
Dave>             while self._lock_count:
Dave>                 self.unlock()

Dave> obj = Locked(threading.RLock())
Dave> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dave> This prints the following:

Dave> locked in <_MainThread(MainThread, started)>
Dave> owner was <_MainThread(MainThread, stopped)>
Dave> owner is now <_DummyThread(Dummy-1, started daemon)>
Dave> unlocked in <_DummyThread(Dummy-1, started daemon)>

Dave> The trouble is that it requires the use of private methods of the
Dave> RLock class.

Dave> Is there a better or more kosher way?

Ype> You might consider not using the __del__ method at all because
Ype> 'it is not guaranteed that __del__() methods are called for
Ype> objects that still exist when the interpreter exits. ' (quoted
Ype> from the language ref).  Then use:
Ype> 
Ype> obj = Locked(threading.RLock())
Ype> try:
Ype>      # whatever needs to be done with obj
Ype> finally:
Ype>     obj.unlock()

That won't work in this case because the resource needs to be locked
over a span of client code.

I should be more specific...

The code in question is my Python bindings for Sybase.  According the
the DB-API specification a database module must provide Connection
objects for managing database connections, and Cursor objects for
executing commands over a Connection.  The DB-API implies that you
should be able to do something like the following:

db = Sybase.connect(...)  # return Connection

# in thread1
c1 = db.cursor()
c1.execute('select * blah')
while 1:
    row = c1.fetchone()
    if not row:
        break

# in thread2
c2 = db.cursor()
c2.execute('select * from blahblah')
while 1:
    row = c2.fetchone()
    if not row:
        break

Now the problem is that even though the database connection can be
shared between threads it can only support a single query in flight at
a time.  This means that while a cursor is fetching results over a
Connection I need the Cursor to maintain a lock on the Connection.  I
do not have any control over the structure of the client code which is
using the Cursor.

In my code the Cursor obtains a lock on the Connection at the start of
a result set and releases the lock at the end of the result.  This has
allowed one user to implement a multi-threaded server which
transparently shares a limited number of database connections between
a much larger set of client handling threads.

The __del__ requirement comes in because the DB-API does not require
that you complete result fetching with a cursor.  It also does not
require that you close a cursor.  This means that the following is a
perfectly fine program:

db = Sybase.connect(...)
c = db.cursor()
c.execute('select * reallbigtable')
row = c.fetchone()

Client code does not need to perform any cleanup.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Thu Nov 28 17:04:05 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:04:05 +1300
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org> <3DE4102D.7D4291F4@alcyone.com> <3DE58723.5040306@something.invalid> <3o3buus1f8kv1psdps2nsq3ed8ltq5ece8@4ax.com> <7iof8a1hd4.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <3DE692D5.7050704@something.invalid>

Isaac To wrote:

> 
> How about if Python disallow functions to do anything "with a side effect"?
> After all, function calls are expressions.


Technically, yes, but all that means is that the
Python grammar doesn't make some distinctions that
I nevertheless make in my brain when I'm coding.

When I write a statement, I tend to think of it
as either something to be evaluated (expression)
or a command to do something (procedure call or
assignment).

A statement which starts out looking like one of
these and part way through changes into the other
can be confusing.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Nov  3 10:32:27 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Nov 2002 10:32:27 -0500
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <aq3dfb$spu$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <aq3fib$r1$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <aq3dfb$spu$1 at news.hccnet.nl>,
Anton Vredegoor <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote:
>
>Three step solution:
>
>1) Eat the food ;-)

Good idea.

>2) Write a refactoring tool for Java using Python

Don't know Java well to do that.

>3) Ask her for a date

<chuckle>  She lives in Toronto (I'm in California) and I'm not her type.
But we'll be seeing each other in Boston next weekend.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Project Vote Smart: http://www.vote-smart.org/


From roy at panix.com  Sat Nov 23 20:10:34 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 20:10:34 -0500
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com> <JZmdnSuX451BuX2gXTWc3A@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <roy-A43C5B.20103423112002@reader1.panix.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> I think GPG, for instance, blew it when they designed
> and implemented yet another scripting language for Dungeon Siege
> instead of using Python (and putting more work into the game itself).

I've been involved with a few projects where the designers felt the need 
to invent their own language.  Invariably, it's ended up being a 
mistake.  Which language you pick (Python, Perl, and TCL are all 
plausable choices) is a far less important decision than the core 
decision not to try inventing your own.


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Nov 14 17:16:21 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 16:16:21 -0600
Subject: PEP #99484663
In-Reply-To: <418ab5dd.0211141031.48b7f0bf@posting.google.com>
References: <m2isz6ue4f.fsf@desk.crynwr.com>
	 <418ab5dd.0211141031.48b7f0bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1037312181.3961.74.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Thu, 2002-11-14 at 12:31, bboman at research.panasonic.com wrote:
> I also would like to see *OPTIONAL* block delimiters, but I wouldn't
> do it
> with {}.  It turns out that there are several keywords in Python like
> "return"
> "raise", "break", "continue" and "pass" that pretty much have to end a
> block.  Technically "pass" doesn't have to end a block but there is no
> point in putting "pass" anywhere except at a block end.
>
> All you need to do to implement block delimiters is to have a option
> to check that each block ends with one of these statements and that
> these statements do not appear anywhere except at the end of a block. 
> Now you have full block delimiters and complete compatibility with
> normal python code!

Intriguing.  I'm sure pychecker could add the check fairly easily,
though most people will still program without delimiters.  I wouldn't
mind making doubled-delimiters illegal, i.e.:

def func():
    return "something"
    return "something else"

I do this sometimes while debugging, but commenting out the second
return isn't burdensome, and there's no reason to use this form except
during development.

Is there anything besides (X)Emacs that can work with these delimiters?

Anyway, I think this could actually be a reasonable PEP -- it addresses
a real problem (mostly a problem of lots of complaints, but it's a
problem), and at least a partial solution is easy to implement without
bothering anybody much (making double-delimiters illegal).  Forcing all
blocks to be properly terminated may be achievable through some magic
variable that effects the parsing (like a "from __future__ import
explicit_delim" -- even if it's not really in Python's future).  Then
people can use it as they choose on their files, and smart editors could
even be aware of the requirement.  We just need more smart editors...

  Ian




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Nov 10 02:55:32 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 08:55:32 +0100
Subject: Bug with getopt on sparc64?
References: <mailman.1036904713.11896.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3bs4xc0zv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Chris Humphries <chumphries at devis.com> writes:

>    while working on getting the python port for openbsd to compile,
>  it seems to break when doing the "./python setup.py build".

Are you creating 64-bit binaries, or 32-bit binaries? If 64-bit
binaries, what compiler? If gcc 2: don't. That compiler is known to
produce bad executables. Generate 32-bit binaries instead.

> Core was generated by `python'.
> Program terminated with signal 10, Bus error.
> #0  0x135408 in _PyOS_GetOpt ()

So what source code line does it show you (command l)? What is the
current instruction (command disass)? What registers are involved in
the current instruction? What are the values of these registers
(command info reg)?

Regards,
Martin


From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Sun Nov 10 22:14:32 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:14:32 +1300
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <3DCD8571.6CACEA04@alcyone.com> <ud6pe48gl.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <3DCF2098.3030004@something.invalid>

Syver Enstad wrote:

> On another note, I think the Smalltalk method call (keyword message send)
> syntax is fabulously readable, why haven't anybody picked that up?
>

> Python has a kind of middle ground with its keyword messages,
> which is good but not quite as nice as Smalltalk.


On the contrary, I think Python's keyword arguments are an
improvement in many ways. You can supply them in any order,
and, if default values have been defined, selectively include
or omit them as desired.

To get that much flexibility with Smalltalk requires defining
a bunch of different versions of each method, and then you're
restricted to whatever combinations and permutations the author
of the class thought to provide.

I've been dabbling in Objective-C recently, and I keep wishing
I could use keywords the Python way in that language...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  8 08:58:53 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:58:53 -0000
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <ZI6y9.77441$aL4.2400685@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036590550.21817.python-list@python.org> <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <usngot7sr6po5a@corp.supernews.com>

In article <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f at posting.google.com>,
Ben Wiedermann <benalan at cs.bu.edu> wrote:
			.
		[several sage observations]
			.
			.
>presentation rank when considering a book? Are there examples of other
>college textbooks that people think do an excellent job in the
>presentation department? What kinds of materials can we (as a
>community) produce to get schools to consider and adopt Python as a
>first programming language? Any other thoughts on Python in the
>university?

Me, too--that is, I have occasional opportunities
to advocate use of Python in school courses, and
I'd welcome more information about what has and can
work.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From tundra at tundraware.com  Fri Nov 15 05:10:20 2002
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 10:10:20 GMT
Subject: Possible Win32 Tkinter bug?
References: <mpg1ra.2s9.ln@boundary.tundraware.com> <ar2euh$lre$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <uvg2ra.u1f.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>

Eric Brunel wrote:
<SNIP>
> 
> Windows has a quite different idea on which window should get the focus 
> than any other window manager on other platforms. We often encountered such 
> strange behaviours.
> 
> Did you try to explicitely do a tkraise and/or focus_set on the main window 
> after your message box has been shown? It may help. I also once saw that 
> calling successively withdraw(), then deiconify() on the main window can 
> solve such problems.
> 
> In other words: you're on Windows, so the standard way to do things is to 
> hack until you get the behaviour you want... ;-)
> 
> HTH


Thanks - I'll look into it...
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com



From steffen at molli15.org  Thu Nov 21 03:18:25 2002
From: steffen at molli15.org (Steffen Kirschke)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:18:25 +0100
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3DDA583F.3070206@Linux.ie> <slrnatknjm.1bg.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>
Message-ID: <1256510.36jUDNNqk6@heinz-achmed.molli15.org>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> In article <3DDA583F.3070206 at Linux.ie>, Padraig Brady wrote:
>     class Foo:
>         def __init__(self, startval):
>             self.counter = startval
> 
>         def __call__(self):
>             print self.counter
>             self.counter += 1
> 
>     foo = Foo(5) # start counting at 5

Or:

def foo(startval=0):
        foo.counter=foo.__dict__.setdefault('counter',startval)+1
        return foo.counter

>>> foo()
1
>>> foo()
2
>>> foo()
3
>>> foo()
4
>>> foo()
5
>>> foo(10)
6
>>> foo(10)
7

to reset the couner and initialize it again:

>>> del(foo.counter)
>>> foo(10)
11
>>> foo(10)
12
>>> foo(10)
13
>>> foo(10)
14

or you may use the yield satement (optional in 2.2) which suspend the
function's state.

Steffen



From NadavH at envision.co.il  Wed Nov 27 01:17:45 2002
From: NadavH at envision.co.il (Nadav Horesh)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:17:45 +0200
Subject: How to generate libpython2.2.so ?
Message-ID: <3DE46389.1020800@envision.co.il>

Found a shared lib in Mandrake 9.0 distro.

Thanks, Gerhard,

  Nadav.




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Nov  1 05:21:13 2002
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 05:21:13 -0500
Subject: Using descriptors
References: <64dea9dc.0210290220.3fb061b0@posting.google.com> <Tszv9.124053$%h2.36299@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <64dea9dc.0210292259.58846bbd@posting.google.com> <cAUv9.119528$Q3S.60747@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <64dea9dc.0210311931.22ee3f5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DC25599.705@rogers.com>

This is really much easier if you look first at the idea of a property, 
and then later look at the ideas of pre and post conditions.  So let's 
take a look at the idea of a property:

    A property can be thought of as a well-defined interaction mechanism 
which provides a particular attribute for a particular class.  The 
property's operation is such that any attempt to access the attribute 
using standard dotted notation (x.y.z) will trigger the property 
interface to accomplish the interaction.  A descriptor is merely an 
abstraction of this concept, so that it can include such constructs as 
static and class methods.

Here's a simple example:
class x(object):
    def get_x( self, ):
        print 'get x'
        return (self._x,) # "wraps" the value on access
    def set_x( self, value ):
        print 'set x'
        self._x = value * 3 # modifies the value on storage
    x = property( get_x, set_x )
    def __getattribute__( self, key ):
        print 'get attribute', key
        return object.__getattribute__( self, key )

r = x()
r.x = 3
print r.x

which prints out:

P:\temp>propdemo.py
set x
get attribute x
get x
get attribute _x
(9,)


Now here is where the distinction comes in regarding your example.  In 
your example, you do something very much like this:

class x(object):
    d = SomeObject()

now in this case, what you've done is to create a class attribute which 
is currently storing an instance of a class.  The object stored in d 
does not respond to the descriptor protocol.  Conceptually, this class 
attribute is being defined with a descriptor/property (which is never 
actually created as far as I know, for efficiency reasons) which simply 
hands back the instance which was set (i.e. it obeys the standard python 
attribute semantics).

Where the idea of wrapping would come in is if you are interested in 
being able to set any generic object through x.y = something and have 
that generic object be wrapped in some particular functional wrapper 
when accessed later via x.y .  In the example above, imagine that 
instead of wanting to wrap the integer with a tuple, we wanted instead 
to return the integer as a special sub-class of integer which supports 
rational division.  We could define a descriptor which intercepts the 
calls to always store a simple integer, but to always provide a wrapped 
integer (which could be important for making pickling efficient).

Basically, for what you're doing, there is no need to use descriptors at 
all.  Simply wrapping your functions would be a perfectly acceptable 
approach, and it would have the added benefit of running on almost any 
python version likely to be in service.

Hope this makes sense, it's past five o'clock in the morning, so I may 
not be particularly coherent at the moment.
Enjoy yourself,
Mike


Andr?g i Ngaurwaith wrote:

>Mike Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<cAUv9.119528$Q3S.60747 at news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
>  
>
>>You haven't, in your example, used any descriptors (explicitly).  A 
>>descriptor would (for instance) automatically wrap whatever was stored 
>>in "testMethod" with the appropriate pre and post conditions.  For 
>>instance, a staticmethod descriptor wraps a function for access such 
>>that the function is returned un-changed, a classmethod wraps a function 
>>for access such that the function is passed a pointer to the class when 
>>called, etceteras.
>>    
>>
>
>Hmm... I don't really understand the distinction. What is it about
>descriptors that make them different from other classes (such as I
>used in the example)? To aid my understanding, would it be possible
>for you to give a definition for or some code illustrating this
>"wrapping"?
>  
>
...

>Pre- and post-conditions are not actually what I'm after here; I'm
>trying to implement a way of transparently getting information (method
>name, parameters) about some method calls (for uses such as logging,
>etc), without having to add the code into the method.
>
>Andrew
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/






From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Wed Nov 20 21:36:24 2002
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:36:24 +0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
Message-ID: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F01BCA1@mexper1.maptek.net.au>

Don't you mean (lisp (be (never (will (Python))))) ? :)

Sw.


-----Original Message-----
From: Courageous [mailto:jkraska at san.rr.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2002 10:26 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?



>It's not in the dust bin, ...

Yes it is. Lisp programmers are like spectres. Howling about the
newsgroups, not knowing they are dead.

>But when I look at why Java and Perl and Python and Ruby are so
>well-received, I get the feeling evolution is headed for where CL 
>already is. Time will tell.

Even if Python and Ruby have or will have the _capabilities_ that Lisp
has, (Python (will (never (be (lisp))))).

C//

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Sat Nov 23 00:08:04 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 05:08:04 GMT
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <743utuoi3l31t8e8tt9v3sncosuk2gqi02@4ax.com>

>Python Dicktatorshit.

Banning isn't an inappropriate response to someone who shows every sign
of delusional thinking.

C//



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov 23 01:18:58 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:18:58 -0800
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3DDF1DD2.BD4AC765@alcyone.com>

Eric Brunel wrote:

> So I told myself: wouldn't it be great if max(None, x) or min(None, x)
> always simply returned x?

The problem here is that you can already do comparisons between
heterogeneous types (so long as one of them isn't a complex number, that
is).  You're guaranteed that comparison between different types will
return some consistent ordering, but you're not guaranteed what that
ordering will be and you're not guaranteed that it could change from
version to version or implementation to implementation.

None is just another instance of a type, as far as this is concerned, so
in a given version of your interpreter, None will either be less than
all integers or greater than all integers; which it will be may depend
on the version and the variant (e.g., Python, Jython, Stackless, or some
future implementation).

The min and max builtins just test for this ordering, so None has no
special significant in this context.  If you mix a None in with, say,
integers in a call to min or max, either it will always be the min and
never the max, or it will always be the max and never the min (again,
which one is an implementation detail).  Special-casing the existence of
None in a call to min/max seems like an expectation violation to me.

Instead what I would recommend is creating a custom class and overriding
__cmp__ so that it always tests either greater or less than everything
else, and using an instance of _that_ object as your sentinel in your
calls to min and/or max (obviously, you'll have to choose the
appropriate sentinel for min or max).

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The little I know, I owe to my ignorance.
\__/ Sacha Guitry
    Bosskey.net: Counter-Strike / http://www.bosskey.net/cs/
 A personal guide to Counter-Strike.


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov  7 04:27:25 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 01:27:25 -0800
Subject: Syntax Error, help a newbie
References: <yhqy9.357108$nc1.2573154@telenews.teleline.es>
Message-ID: <3DCA31FD.645925B3@alcyone.com>

Ismael Valladolid Torres wrote:

> I am a newbie to python. I am in need of executing a setup script
> which is
> written in this language.
> 
> self._services = [ s for s in self._services: if s._name !=
> '$removed$' ]

That colon shouldn't be there, for starters:

	[f(x) for x in L if g(x)]

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ No man who needs a monument ever ought to have one.
\__/ Nathaniel Hawthorne
    7 Sisters Productions / http://www.7sisters.com/
 Web design for the future.


From Jan.Wegner at zuken.de  Wed Nov 20 05:31:44 2002
From: Jan.Wegner at zuken.de (Jan D. Wegner)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:31:44 +0100
Subject: Tkinter/Popup: How to cascade 
Message-ID: <3DDB6490.5040105@zuken.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Hi,

I'm working on a popup menu for an application. I have two
questions

Is it (in general) possible to add a widget other than the
given command, cascade, separator to a menu


How do I intercept with mouse clicks on certain menu items,
esp. on cascading ones?

advTHANXance,
</j>
- --
Jan Wegner          jan.{yes send me spam}.wegner at zuken.de
- ----*... and may all your GUIs be fast and friendly.*----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Netscape - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAj3bZI8ACgkQzbRQw0jcNQQp0wCeLOxEruf/KrS6tb6SccZJY39Z
J68An2ASrwUSDFxT4slepAfvqO8VyNNM
=fqKK
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 18 16:49:15 2002
From: shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com (Richard Dillingham)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:49:15 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
Message-ID: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>

Kind of like we have multiple assignments in a line (oldx,oldy=x,y), what do
you think of the ability to have multiple tests in an if statement with only
one == or >=.

This would mean that lines like the following:
if posx>=coords[0] and posy>=coords[1] and posx<=coords[2] and
posy<=coords[3]:

Could be rewritten like so:
if posx,posy>=coords[0],coords[1] and posx,posy<=coords[2],coords[3]





From smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org  Mon Nov  4 12:37:09 2002
From: smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org (Jacob Smullyan)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 12:37:09 -0500
Subject: PyXML pickle problem with PyXML0.8.1
Message-ID: <slrnasdc20.snj.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>

I recklessly upgraded to PyXML 0.8.1 and found that
xml.dom.minidom.Document instances are now no longer pickleable,
because they define __slots__ without defining __getstate__.  Other
classes in minidom do support pickling, but not Document.  Is there a
reason for this? 

I think this is just a bug, best recorded on PyXML's bug tracker, but
in case someone wants to argue that it isn't, I thought I'd give them
an opportunity.  

Cheers,

Jacob Smullyan


From gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com  Thu Nov  7 20:53:14 2002
From: gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com (gcash)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 01:53:14 GMT
Subject: ftplib two server "proxy" support
Message-ID: <4rashloo.fsf@cfl.rr.com>

Is there anyone who's done support for the 2 server model of the FTP
RFC-959, the thing that most UNIX FTP clients call "PROXY" ??

I'm talking about Figure 2 in Section 2.3 of RFC-959 and *NOT* a firewall
or other type of intermediate proxy.

This is where you open a control connection to 2 remote servers and command
one to send a file to the other one.  The normal FTP session looks
something like: (if the two servers are named "spam" and "eggs")

#> ftp spam
FTP> user joe
FTP> pass ######
FTP> proxy open eggs
FTP> proxy user bob
FTP> proxy pass #####

at this point you're logged into spam as "joe" and eggs as "bob".
now you can say:

FTP> bin
FTP> proxy bin
FTP> proxy get pythonmodule.c

and "pythonmodule.c" is transferred *by* *direct* *connection* from spam to
eggs.

You can also say things like:

FTP> proxy ls

and get a directory listing from eggs.

The reason I want this is because I'm transferring huge, simply enormous,
mindbogglingly big files and this cuts *way* down on the network traffic
that would happen if I simply opened connections to the two servers and
copied the files between them.  Plus the pipe between the servers is
relatively large.  And dammit, I can't put Python on either of the servers,
either!!

Please someone say they've done it, as I'm seriously not looking forward to
having to do it myself.

>From looking at the FTP client sources, I think I could also hack it by
opening connections to both servers, then sending the appropriate 'PORT'
command followed by a 'STOR' or 'RETR'

Any suggestions?

-gc

-- 
Christmas is weird. What other time of the year do you sit in front of
a dead tree and eat candy out of your socks?
 -- Metamorph at mmcable.com (alt.gothic)


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Tue Nov 19 20:52:39 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:52:39 GMT
Subject: yield: implementation details and other technica
References: <sbejtu49jq3r9csj4d2lip4hpmd7dqq2fr@4ax.com> <rxnC9.9055$Q27.2610@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <n7qltuk8h4c75ie9hro1rnib8vhvh0sedc@4ax.com>

>The gist of the appoach is that each process gets initiated through the
>master scheduler which is then responsible for making the g.next() calls
>when appropriate.  Whenever the generator yields, it returns control back to
>the scheduler and freezes its current state.

This response was helpful from an educational point of view, but alas
isn't what I want. Consumers of my API must call yield. "Yield" clashes
with the domain language I'm trying to construct in my simuylator. It
looks like I'm stuck with Stackless for Python 2.0.X for the time being.

I basically need some general purpose mechanism whereby, no matter
how deeply nested, a call to yield "throws" an execution frame up
to a point where it can be "caught" and then scheduled. I.O.W., nested
methods/functions need to be able to yield their parent's execution
frames. This is, AFAICT, not possible with the current implementation
of yield.

I want this to work:

def g():

	f()

def f():

	yield None

x = g()
g.next()

I understand that it doesn't work, and possibly won't or can't be made to
work as is. I require a context in which it does, however; hence my current
use of Stackless. My main complaint with Stackless is simply that future
versions of Python are not supported (and that the current Stackless lost
old functionality, and is in flux).

C//



From claird at lairds.com  Sun Nov 24 11:34:16 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:34:16 -0000
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com> <slrnatvd5o.tjt.grante@localhost.localdomain> <slrnau0b6e.ugj.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <uu1vs8dn5l3c24@corp.supernews.com>

In article <slrnau0b6e.ugj.grante at localhost.localdomain>,
Grant Edwards  <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>In article <slrnatvd5o.tjt.grante at localhost.localdomain>, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> In article <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5 at posting.google.com>,
>smartcardware.com wrote:
>> 
>>> I've heard that Python is a great scripting language with one downfall for
>>> game designers/programmers.  That is that you must embed your code into
>>> Python, instead of convensional scripting langauges where you embed the
>>> scripting language into your code.
>> 
>> Not true.
>
>BTW, I believe that there are already games on the market that use Python as
>a scripting langauge, aren't there?
			.
			.
			.
Yes <URL: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/GameProgramming >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk  Thu Nov  7 08:44:17 2002
From: dale at riverhall.NOTHANKS.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:44:17 +0000
Subject: Python and ASP oddity
Message-ID: <kpqksu4ej3brl29kot4lr1c3g973en3r0v@4ax.com>

(Win2K, Python 2.2.2)

We are using Python as the ASP programming language and are trying to
store an object reference in the ASP Session object. The syntax is
something like:

Session.SetValue("spam", spam.chunks())

where spam.chunks() returns a new instance of the chunks object -
which is pure Python.

However, this gives a COM error complaining about SAFEARRAYs.

So we tried wrapping the chunks object up in a COM wrapper and tried
again.

This time it complained about the lack of a default value. Suspicious
of it's intentions, we supplied a default value. However, we then
found that it was merely retrieving the default value and storing that
in the Session object. The silly thing.

There is no problem storing simple values in the Session object but
the problem remains that we can't figure out how to store Python
objects in there.

Can anyone offer any insight?

Thanks

--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Nov  4 14:58:59 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 19:58:59 +0000
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
References: <mailman.1036428738.6509.python-list@python.org>
 <j4znsp2po0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Up80dLADGtx9EwVK@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <j4znsp2po0.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de>, Martin v. L?wis
<loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> writes
>Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
>
>> Of course, that is my fault for not including documentation with the
>> patch.
>
>Don't feel too bad. For 2.2, it was just unfortunate timing. For 2.3,
>I should have noticed the omission earlier, but it is not too late to
>integrate it into 2.3.
>
>Also, while we do need documentation, we don't necessarily need it
>from *you*; anybody interested in seeing this patch progress
>contribute (hi Robin :-).
>
>Regards,
>Martin
well I'll gladly contribute testing/examples, but my documentation
skills are minimal if not negative. Also I have precisely two working
examples to boast about.

Are there competing proposals for this kind of functionality?
-- 
Robin Becker


From ronwalf at w3eax.umd.edu  Mon Nov  4 23:04:56 2002
From: ronwalf at w3eax.umd.edu (Ron Alford [KB0NUV])
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:04:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: urllib2 occasionally hanging
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211042304060.13999-100000@w3eax.umd.edu>

I have a python program running on a win2k machine (python version 2.2.1).
The specific part of the program that I'm concerned with is a simple
urlopen that runs every 5 minutes or so. The line reads: 

furl = urllib2.urlopen(updateURL)

Every so often, this call will go out, and never, ever return.  It doesn't
seem to leave a trace in the web server's log.  I have a deep suspicion
that this is a syscall that's getting hung up and never returning.

Anyone have a cute trick around this?

-Ron





From logistix at zworg.com  Sat Nov 23 14:43:32 2002
From: logistix at zworg.com (logistix)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 11:43:32 -0800
Subject: ARP request/reply by Python?
References: <mailman.1038029918.11285.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdb5b58f.0211231143.7cdf6202@posting.google.com>

Brian Lee <senux at senux.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1038029918.11285.python-list at python.org>...
> Can I read and write ARP packets by Python? I found that 
> type number for IP datagram is 0x0800 and 0x0806 for ARP request/reply
> in ethernet frame header. How can I set type number(0x0806) to ethernet
> frame header in Python socket? Any site link on this?

ARP works at layer 2 and IP works at layer 3.  By the time you're
dealing with sockets its too late to do ARP stuff.

Don't know if there are any Python packages to hit ethernet cards at a
lower level.


From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Nov 19 19:59:23 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:59:23 -0800
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7?
In-Reply-To: <200211191643.AA155713704@mail.e-coli.net>
Message-ID: <008c01c29030$114f8810$21795418@dell1700>

dsavitsk wrote:
> I think the best response is to say that as wget was not installed, I
went
> to /usr/ports/ftp/wget
> 
> typed "make install" and the necessary files (a few MB worth) were
> retrieved from gnu.org in about 20 seconds.  much faster than the
files I
> am geting w/ urllib.

That doesn't reveal anything interesting. For example, the gnu.org site
might be a lot faster than the one that you were testing, you might have
been experiencing transient network problems when testing urllib, etc.

A good test would use wget and urllib, in an alternating fashion,
several times. It should take you less than five minutes to devise such
as test.

Cheers,
Brian




From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov 10 05:51:30 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:51:30 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net> <Di3z9.8445$Bs5.288545@news1.tin.it> <aqkpmn$squ$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <SSqz9.11815$Bs5.432435@news1.tin.it>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 08:02:43 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
> [...]
>>
>>This is more or less the end of the line in terms of what
>>os.popen can offer -- due to buffering and suchlike there's
>>no practical way for python to drive BOTH standard input
>>and standard-output of another external program.
> 
> I think there *ought* to be a practical way, *and* amongst the batteries
> ;-)
> 
> It's hard to believe that, for NT at least, someone out there
> hasn't written a console proxy module that could interface to console
> apps the way typing and viewing in a console window does, so something

Never heard of one, as such, but the existence of an `expect` port
to NT (done, as I recall, by intercepting a spawned process's calls
to system console functions, which in turn took advantage of many
curious quirks -- e.g., that setting breakpoints in system DLL's
caused the system to copy-on-write duplicate specific pages of the
system DLL's thus affected) does suggest something can be kludged
up.  Probably not very solidly -- again I'm relying on memories of
the "expect for NT" issues: if a spawned process got exceptions or
multithreaded intensely the spawning process would eventually lose
track of things.  And definitely not in such a way as to work for
systems in the /95-/98-/ME line (no idea what would happen were one
to try to reproduce those quirks in /2K-/XP -- particularly the
"workstation"/"home" editions: MS, as I recall, was quite careful to 
hobble them, particularly XP, to make sure the cheaper editions could
not be used for "server-oid" functions, i.e. that one would have to
buy costlier editions for the purpose).

Cameron Laird posted a thoughtful critique of 'expect' recently on
this group.  Combining those reflections, and the specific ones on
the frailty and non-portability of the 'expect for NT' approach,
lead me to consider that trying to make such functionality part of
the Python standard library would be at best wasted effort (if one
gave up when the unfeasibility became apparent) and at worst a
tragedy (if one was able to block Python's next release indefinitely
while trying to make the needed kludges semi-workable).


> As you point out, TMTOWTDI applies in spades, but if there's
> a solid way to run a program to do what you want from the
> console window command line, why shouldn't there be a solid
> way to use that via something like the above? (Especially handy for
> those who don't have compilers or ready knowledge to make C extensions).

I think there shouldn't be yet another, semi-functional, not
really portable, highly-kludgy way to attempt to provide a
functionality that the underying OS doesn't support or even
actively fight against.  People who don't have compilers &c
are better advised (for Windows-only deployment) to use COM
for most purposes, anyway.


Alex



From trevorperrin at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 19 15:38:49 2002
From: trevorperrin at hotmail.com (Trevor)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 12:38:49 -0800
Subject: zero-copy array slicing
References: <e5e6d03.0211190138.e7cfc0e@posting.google.com> <JLqC9.37182$Yw.1775061@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <e5e6d03.0211191238.65b572c3@posting.google.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<JLqC9.37182
> > Is a zero-copy array slicing operation possible? [..]
>
> [..] if this the behavior you need, the simplest way to get it is exactly 
> with the Numeric extensions

Interesting, thanks!  However I don't think Numeric or Numarray
support the buffer interface (or come standard with python), which was
my reason for trying to use the array module.

What I'm trying to do is interface a C cryptography library to python,
so I can encrypt/hash data in as convenient and efficient a way as
possible.  I was thinking the buffer interface would be the best way
to get a grip on the contents of strings (for read-only operations
like hashing) and arrays.  If arrays had a subsequence() function then
I could efficiently hash or encrypt-in-place parts of arrays:

bytes = readArrayFromBigFile()
hash(bytes.subsequence(128))              #hash all but some header
encrypt(bytes)                            #encrypt whole array
encrypt(bytes.subsequence(start, finish)) #encrypt some section

I'd be willing to try to add this.  But maybe I should explore the
solution space more.  What would you recommend as the most Pythonic
approach, given these constraints?
 - in-place operation on subsequences of bytes, from the C api
 - convenient application to different types (e.g. strings, arrays)
 - ideally, no dependency on nonstandard libraries (like Numeric)

 
Trevor


From chezdique at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 13 23:31:02 2002
From: chezdique at yahoo.com (dique)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:31:02 +0800
Subject: What is the best way to join tuples?
Message-ID: <3dd32603$1_2@news.tm.net.my>

# I have two list of tuples, eg something like
wxyTuple = [(1,1,1), (1,1,2), (1,2,1), (2,2,1)] # tuples of  (w,x,y)
xyzTuple = [(1,1,0), (1,2,1), (1,1,2)] # tuples of (x,y,z)

# and I want to join them together become (w,x,y,z), just like what we used
to do with RDBMS by joining two tables together, with x,y acting as pivot.
The result should be:

wxyzTuple = [(1,1,1,0),(1,1,1,2),(1,1,2,1),(1,2,1,-1),(2,2,1,-1)] # where -1
is to indicate no match is found in xyzTuple

# I tried this:
wxyzFunc = lambda (w,x,y,z): (w,x,y) in wxyTuple and ((x,y,z) in xyzTuple or
z==-1)
wxyzTuple = filter(wxyzFunc, [(w,x,y,z[2]) for (w,x,y) in wxyTuple for z in
xyzTuple+[(0,0,-1)]])
print wxyzTuple

# but the result is [(1, 1, 1, 0), (1, 1, 1, 2), (1, 1, 1, -1), (1, 1, 2,
1), (1, 1, 2, -1), (1, 2, 1, -1), (2, 2, 1, -1)]
# which is not intended, as it also contains those noises like (1,1,1,-1)
# How should I go about it? Thanx!!




From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov 14 06:11:34 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:11:34 GMT
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m
 3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3lm3xqh92.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7h3fzu4z9ww.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) writes:

> DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
[...]
> > My wild guess would be that there are today more people familiar with XML
> > than there are with \tex.

I doubt this.  Many, many scientists know tex, or rather latex.

Among the people who are likely to contribute to Python's docs, you
may well be right, though I'm not sure what "being familiar with XML"
*means* here -- being familiar with an appropriate XML application
like docbook is surely the point, and that cuts the number of people
down again.

> > How long will the supply of tex afficianado's last?

Long enough, I'd bet.

> You don't need to be a Tex aficionado to contribute to the Python
> documentation. I don't like Tex myself, and I don't use it for
> anything but the Python documentation. However, when writing Python
> documentation, I don't think of it as writing Tex. It is a special
> language that is much easier to learn than Tex, since the processor is
> much more forgiving (it is processed by Fred Drake, after all).

My pedantic streak is wanting to point out the differences between
"Tex", "plain Tex" and "LaTex" (the last of which being what Python's
docs are in), but I doubt anyone cares...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Do I do everything in C++ and teach a course in advanced swearing?
         -- David Beazley at IPC8, on choosing a language for teaching


From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Fri Nov 15 15:43:10 2002
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:43:10 +0200 (EET)
Subject: redirecting output from spawned processes
In-Reply-To: <20021115122809.E23552@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0211152238020.19275-100000@cens.kybi>


On 15 Nov 2002, Trent Mick wrote:

> [Jef Mangelschots wrote]
> > How do I redirect the output of 'someapp' to the file log_file ?
> > 
> > 
> >            log_file = 'c:\output.log'
> > 
> >            os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, 'some_app', 'p1', 'p2')
> 
> A couple of ways:
> 
>     os.system("someapp > %s" % log_file)
...
> I think you want the former though. To redirect stderr as well you need
> to do a little bit more work:
> 
>     os.system("someapp > %s 2>&1" % log_file)

Does it really work under windows? From log_file I gather that Jef asked
this for Windows platform.

Pearu




From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Nov 26 16:28:40 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:28:40 -0800
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
In-Reply-To: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <010d01c29592$ccb9aec0$21795418@dell1700>

Steven Rumblaski wrote:
> In python I can write:
> 
> a, b = i, j
> 
> but the following is not legal:
> 
> a, b += i, j
> 
> Is there a reason that allowing this would be bad?  Why does Python 
> forbid this?

Assignment to a literal doesn't make sense e.g. how is this different
from

(1,2) = (3,4)

But I think that the error message is deceptive, so I've filed a bug
report:

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=644345&group_i
d=5470&atid=105470

Cheers,
Brian




From edream at tds.net  Wed Nov  6 09:43:11 2002
From: edream at tds.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:43:11 GMT
Subject: Guilty secret: globals baffle me
Message-ID: <3U9y9.19300$ko1.2872530@kent.svc.tds.net>

The more I think about global variables, the more confused I get.

My app has only one "official" global variable, called gApp, and it never
seemed to work to set or access it directly, so I use app() and setApp()
functions to get and set it.  app() returns the singleton instance of a
class that represents the application itself, and I use ivars in this object
as surrogates for global vars.

This isn't bad, I suppose, but I am still totally baffled by globals.

My questions:

1. How many globals are there?  Is there just one, or does each module
define its own?

2. It seems that:

global foo
foo = x
...
global
print foo

only works if the two parts are within the same module, so I think maybe
globals() returns module specific stuff, but then why call it globals?

Can anyone shed some light on matters? Thanks.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edream at tds.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------




From pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Nov 19 12:21:48 2002
From: pan-newsreader at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:21:48 +0100
Subject: PersistentList (ZODB)
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.19.18.21.48.227528.710@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi!

I use PersistentList v1.3 from Zope2.6.

If I do the following

mylist=PersistentList()
type(mylist)
mylist.append(5)
mylist=[1, 2, 3] # (*)
type(mylist)

mylist is not a PersistentList anymore. Is there
a way to change PersistentList that way that the line
marked with (*) does not delete the PersistentList,
but creates a new empty one?

This would bring me one big step towards programming nirvana:
     "Don't care for persistence!"

 thomas

-- 
Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
http://www.thomas-guettler.de


From tool_man at spamcop.net  Fri Nov  8 13:10:38 2002
From: tool_man at spamcop.net (Tim Lavoie)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 12:10:38 -0600
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <9ROy9.7069$8P5.4238@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <87y984avx2.fsf@theasylum.dyndns.org> <aqgrib$q4$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <87smycaq5d.fsf@theasylum.dyndns.org>

>>>>> "Eddie" == Eddie Corns <eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk> writes:

    Eddie> Tim Lavoie <tool_man at spamcop.net> writes:
    >> I still haven't figured out how to slide some Intercal in at
    >> work though...  :)

    Eddie> Intercal! don't be such a wuss - have a look at
    Eddie> http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/madore/programs/unlambda/

Heheh. Yeah, that's even better. I checked out the Fibonacci example:

```s``s``sii`ki
  `k.*``s``s`ks
 ``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk
  `k``s`ksk

All I can think of is that it represents the sound of someone gagging
on their respirator...  :)

On the other hand, it might be fun to write a program that writes
Unlambda code, 'cause I sure don't want to read it.

-- 
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I will
walk carefully.
                -- Russian Proverb


From trevorperrin at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 20 14:43:06 2002
From: trevorperrin at hotmail.com (Trevor)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 11:43:06 -0800
Subject: zero-copy array slicing (and PEP 296)
References: <e5e6d03.0211190138.e7cfc0e@posting.google.com> <e5e6d03.0211191238.65b572c3@posting.google.com> <bvyC9.29870$744.1083099@news1.tin.it> <e5e6d03.0211192314.4156d409@posting.google.com> <ZQHC9.42060$Yw.1987239@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <e5e6d03.0211201143.61d19ab8@posting.google.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<ZQHC9.42060$Yw.1987239 at news2.tin.it>...
> 
> Me, I'd go with Numeric -- partly because it defies belief that
> somebody may need encryption and the like and NOT need some of
> the many other conveniences Numeric offer (I have not yet done
> any evaluation of whether the time is ripe to use Numarray in
> lieu of Numeric -- that's a separate choice).

That sounds like the way to go - support Numeric for in-place
subsequence operations but also support array.array and strings for
cases where those are more convenient, and zero-copy subsequence
operations aren't needed.  Thanks!

Trevor


From mwh at python.net  Sun Nov 10 08:23:35 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:23:35 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7h31y5uyj81.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <mailman.1036892593.32297.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3of8xwoh8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> writes:

> Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote previously:
> |[1] How many people went "significant indentation! ugh!"?
> 
> Oddly many... or at least it seems odd, since I never had that reaction.
> But almost no one held on to that "ugh!" feeling after a couple days of
> using Python.  My feeling is that the "ugh!" over Lisp's parentheses
> just never goes away for most people.

Did for me.  Using a sensible editor[1] helps a lot.

At first I found it helpful to break everything up into loads of tiny
functions to avoid getting lost in the parens, but after a while you
stop seeing them.  Do you count braces in C?  I know there aren't so
many, but it's the same sort of thing.

Cheers,
M.

[1] This means Emacs.

-- 
  I wouldn't trust the Anglo-Saxons for much anything else.  Given
  they way English is spelled, who could trust them on _anything_ that
  had to do with writing things down, anyway?
                                        -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Nov 19 17:55:38 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:55:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: wxPython crashing windows
In-Reply-To: <3DDAA93F.40007@cyberspace.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211191455180.17079-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, trewornan wrote:

> Well the subject says it all - has anyone else found wxPython crashing 
> windows (all the way to a blue screen).

No.




From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Thu Nov 21 15:49:52 2002
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:49:52 -0500
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
Message-ID: <003201c2919f$906f8350$9865fea9@arthur>

David writes -

> There's a strange phenomenon with programmers, especially (but not
> exclusively) ones who are attached to one or a couple favorite
> langauges.  They claim--rather persistently--that someone/anyone can
> learn their language in an absurdly short time period.

FWIW, I have been trying to draw some attention to a related point on the
edu-sig and tutor lists.

Emphasizing too strongly how "easy" Python is as a first programming
language is probably in many ways counter-productive. Many people who give
it even an honest attempt with that expectation will become quickly
discouraged, IMO.

>From a somewhat standing start (very little programming background, but a
"power user", as the term goes) took me a few years of pretty concerted
effort to become comfortable with a decently comprehensive subset of the
core language. But  I still know very little about most of the library
modules.  And I would say I haved a decent aptitude for the kind of
challenges presented by learning to program.

Just seems to me that realistic expectations are quite important in any
learning process.

Art





From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 26 11:47:50 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 16:47:50 GMT
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A78B@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com> <mailman.1038291876.3587.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <as08jm$b0d$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:12:59 +1100, Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:33, Delaney, Timothy wrote:
>> The most common of these are = vs ==, and just about anything to do with
>> pointer dereferencing.
>There are some useful defensive techniques. I often test for equality to a 
>constant. If you put the constant on the left side, the compiler will help 
>you:
>eg. if ( 0 == pointer) { }
>
>> The next most common class of errors involve memory issues - dereferencing
>> invalid pointers, double-freeing, failing to free memory, etc.
>Memory checking tools seem to be grossly underused.
>
>> ObRant: What the hell is the difference between an "implementation defined"
>> feature, and an "undefined" feature? In both cases, a particular
>> implementation is free to do whatever it wants. The only possible
>> difference I can think of is that "implementation defined" implies that the
>> implementation should at least try to do something useful ... and actually
>> document what it does.
>- From the Sep 2002 issue of "Linux Magazine" (the European one):, in relation 
>to a C tutorial:
>"The three phrases that should strike fear into the hear of any programmer are 
>'implementation defined', 'unspecified' and 'undefined' .... Implementation 
>defined means it is up the compiler vendor to pick a method, document it, and 
>stick by it - at least within this particular version ... Unspecified means 
>that the compiler writers know what will happen, but they haven't document 
>it.... Undefined mena that anything can happen. And it means anything. The 
>results need not adhere to logic, the expression in question, or even the day 
>of the week... Suffice to say, you should never write code that relies on, 
>expects, or follows any of these criteria".
>
>
>From Nov 1997 C++ draft standard:

  1.4.5  implementation-defined behavior            [defns.impl.defined]
  behavior,  for  a well-formed program construct and correct data, that
  depends on the implementation and that each implementation shall docu-
  ment.

  1.4.12  undefined behavior                           [defns.undefined]
  behavior, such as might arise upon use of an  erroneous  program  con-
  struct  or  of  erroneous  data,  for  which  the  Standard imposes no
  requirements.  Undefined behavior may also be expected when the  stan-
  dard  omits  the  description  of any explicit definition of behavior.
  [Note: permissible undefined behavior ranges from ignoring the  situa-
  tion  completely with unpredictable results, to behaving during trans-
  lation or program execution in a documented manner  characteristic  of
  the  environment  (with  or  without  the  issuance  of  a  diagnostic
  message), to terminating a translation or execution (with the issuance
  of a diagnostic message).  Note that many erroneous program constructs
  do not engender undefined behavior; they are required to be diagnosed.
  ]

  1.4.13  unspecified behavior                       [defns.unspecified]
  behavior,  for  a well-formed program construct and correct data, that
  depends on the implementation.  The implementation is not required  to
  document which behavior occurs.  [Note: usually, the range of possible
  behaviors is delineated by the Standard.  ]

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Mon Nov 25 12:45:58 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:45:58 -0200
Subject: the real .pyc file
Message-ID: <20021125154558.A3154@ibook.distro.conectiva>

Yes, I was bored.. ;-)

int
a=1//1;main=lambda:1
+1;
#define a
int
main()
{a//a:a};import sys;printf=sys.stdout.write
printf("Hello world!\n");a//a;{
}

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Fri Nov  1 02:41:56 2002
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 07:41:56 GMT
Subject: Python-based browser plugins?
References: <20021031044735.21506.44480.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1036047036.2186.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0210310648.9a0fa8d@posting.google.com> <Orgw9.5793$Ik6.545350@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <8fqw9.24408$jE1.77737@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Terry Hancock:

> Now I know that Netscape has had a plugin architecture for a
> long time, but I was never clear on whether other browsers actually
> implemented plugins in a compatible way or just had their own
> individual mechanisms

   Internet Explorer ran Netscape plugins up to version 5.5 SP2. Then
support was removed. I developed plugins that ran well in both earlier
versions of IE and in Netscape Navigator.

   Neil




From mwh at python.net  Sat Nov  9 08:16:50 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:16:50 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7b8f89d6.0211081548.f91b468@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h365v6yjgb.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

larrye2000 at hotmail.com (larry) writes:

> If lisp is such a crummy language why has it survived at all for so
> long?

Well, obviously: because it's not such a crummy language.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  We did requirements and task analysis, iterative design, and user
  testing. You'd almost think programming languages were an interface
  between people and computers.                    -- Steven Pemberton
          (one of the designers of Python's direct ancestor ABC)


From grante at visi.com  Sat Nov 23 20:33:40 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 01:33:40 GMT
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com> <slrnatvd5o.tjt.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <slrnau0b6e.ugj.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <slrnatvd5o.tjt.grante at localhost.localdomain>, Grant Edwards wrote:
> In article <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5 at posting.google.com>, smartcardware.com wrote:
> 
>> I've heard that Python is a great scripting language with one downfall for
>> game designers/programmers.  That is that you must embed your code into
>> Python, instead of convensional scripting langauges where you embed the
>> scripting language into your code.
> 
> Not true.

BTW, I believe that there are already games on the market that use Python as
a scripting langauge, aren't there?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  YOW!! I'm in a very
                                  at               clever and adorable INSANE
                               visi.com            ASYLUM!!


From jim at interet.com  Tue Nov 19 09:38:45 2002
From: jim at interet.com (James C. Ahlstrom)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:38:45 -0500
Subject: A Minimal Python Distribution
References: <XzlC9.5643$fY3.601121@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3DDA4CF5.2060003@interet.com>

Rod Crawford- Ardbeg wrote:

> Is there a recognized minimal/subset of python that we could start from that
> would be a short download for them, but provide the features we need?

You could try just sending the Python executable with some
of the library modules included as frozen modules.  The
reason the distribution is so big is all the library files,
many of which you don't need.

Jim Ahlstrom



From xucs007 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  1 20:37:17 2002
From: xucs007 at yahoo.com (Xu, C.S.)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 17:37:17 -0800
Subject: how to use smtp starttls() encryption?
References: <8f41cfd.0210101719.ad47c7@posting.google.com> <m3fzvdmsa1.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <8f41cfd.0210120805.6ced204a@posting.google.com> <m31y6vl1p0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <8f41cfd.0210162236.3e5c970a@posting.google.com> <mailman.1034855185.30941.python-list@python.org> <8f41cfd.0210211030.33365530@posting.google.com> <mailman.1035237156.20658.python-list@python.org> <8f41cfd.0210312325.7ab7969f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036139642.15906.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8f41cfd.0211011737.383e2c2@posting.google.com>

Gerhard,

You saved me! Why don't I need s.login(fromEmail, password) 
to identify myself after s.starttls() ?

Earlier when our mail server don't require TLS, it need
check mail before sending out, or use s.login(fromEmail, password)
to identify myself.

What the hell s.starttls() is doing? There just no slightest clue
in python lib reference.

Thank you, and Martin, and all -- my confidence toward Python
just restored to 95%, :-)

-- ChangSen Xu


> Seems to work:
> 
> gerhard at gargamel:~$ python
> Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 18 2002, 03:24:30)
> [GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import smtplib
> >>> s = smtplib.SMTP("mail.offleasecomputer.net")
> >>> s.starttls()
>  (220, 'OpenSSL/0.9.5beta go ahead')
> >>> s.sendmail("gerhard.haering at gmx.de", ["testpythonsmtp at offleasecomputer.net"
> ], "hello, does it work?")
> {}
> >>> s.quit()
> 
> -- Gerhard


From jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Nov 29 05:47:13 2002
From: jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk (Jeremy Yallop)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 10:47:13 GMT
Subject: Name of current method
References: <pan.2002.11.28.20.26.03.172820.727@thomas-guettler.de> <332c7c11.0211281606.3ebd4991@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnaueh5a.3ch.jeremy@saturn.cps.co.uk>

* Benno
| import sys

  import inspect

| def get_fn_name():
| 	return sys._getframe().f_back.f_code.co_name

 	return inspect.currentframe().f_back.f_code.co_name

Jeremy.


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Mon Nov 11 17:10:53 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:10:53 -0500
Subject: PEP #99484663
References: <mailman.1037029004.14330.python-list@python.org> <m23cq7vmlk.fsf@desk.crynwr.com>
Message-ID: <ut0abk8rhjo380@news.supernews.com>

"Russell Nelson" <nelson at crynwr.com> wrote in message
news:m23cq7vmlk.fsf at desk.crynwr.com...
> dave at pythonapocrypha.com writes:
>
> > FWIW, I don't find the blocks-of-code-embedded-in-HTML to work that
well
> > in other languages, either. :) It has always felt like such a hack
and the
> > result is unreadable and thus tough to maintain.
>
> I agree.  Much better to generate the HTML from python code than to
> attempt to extricate a python program inside an HTML document, if only
> because the first can be turned into bytecodes while the second is
> necessarily based on string-scanning and evals.

I thought the original comment was about client side Python in HTML,
where there is no good substitute (assuming you want to use Python
on the client side.) On the server side, you can make arguements both
ways. If it's a few things that have to be generated into a large block
of
HTML, then embedding the scripting language makes sense. If it's a case
of major tailoring or generation, then all of the HTML should be
generated.

Just my opinion,
John Roth





From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Sun Nov 24 01:27:31 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 22:27:31 -0800
Subject: Newbie Q on searching lists
In-Reply-To: <20021123160602.14377.20953.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021123160602.14377.20953.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <E18FqHP-00051s-00@mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

On Saturday 23 November 2002 08:06 am, Kenny Tilton wrote:
> Terry Hancock wrote:
> >?Did you mean this?
> >?
> >?if thisCalculator in calculators:
> >? ? ? ? ?raise CircularDependency(thisCalculator)
> 
> sweet. thx. for the heads up on custom exceptions as well. I was faking 
> that bit (as you could tell <g>), just wanted to put up a more readable 
> example.

Actually "raise CircularDependency, thisCalculator" is also correct, although
perhaps slightly less clear about what is actually happening. It is in fact 
the old way to raise an  exception (when exceptions were just strings). The 
newer exceptions (Python 2.0+?) are classes.

I assumed of course, that you defined CircularDependency as an exception 
somewhere earlier in your code.

I was actually just trying to suggest using "in" since you seemed to be 
trying to find out only if thisCalculator was contained in calculators -- 
that being what the "in" operator is for.

Use .index() where it is in the sequence once you know it's there. This is a 
general pattern in Python -- find out *if* it's there, then get it.  As in:

d = {'spam':1, 'eggs':2}
if d.has_key('spam'):
    e = d['spam']

Why?

I think it's because generally if you're looking for something that isn't 
there, you've made a mistake.  So it makes sense to raise an exception. That 
way, Python warns you, making the bug very transparent.

If on the other hand, the existence of an item in a container is only 
possible, and not required, then you as the programmer ought to be thinking 
about that possibility when you code it. Thus, Python makes you say "I want 
to see if the item is there and then get it if it is" or (as the following 
idiom does) "I want to set it to the value of the item with a default of 
'ham'":

e = d.get('spam', default='ham')

Many other languages would try to do this thinking for you -- specifying a 
defined behavior in the language (such as returning None) if the item isn't 
there.  But that means you have to be constantly vigilant against hidden 
exceptional conditions propagating their way through your code (had it simply 
returned None, and you didn't think it could do that -- how much further down 
in your code would you have to look to find the place it actually failed?).
IMHO, that's "penny-wise and pound-foolish". Better to fail right away, and 
force you to think about the edge conditions now, while you're coding it.

Just as (good) GUIs are based on careful thought about the interface between 
the user and the software, Python is based on careful thought about the 
interface between the programmer and the code. I think that's the central 
insight behind its design.  (Speculating about the "Why is Python popular..." 
thread and the "thinking in python" idea).

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Nov 23 01:11:00 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:11:00 -0800
Subject: static variables?
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3DDD556B.3936A6AE@alcyone.com> <f040c4f9.0211220312.5b5f1696@posting.google.com> <3DDE1CB7.96BE164@alcyone.com> <cTqD9.57520$Yw.2605301@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DDF1BF4.82C9B70B@alcyone.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> The semantics of the two mechanisms are very different.

Of course they are.

> Now, these effects (plural) can't BOTH be "the desired effect"
> (singular),
> can they?  They're different... so, if one is desired, then the other
> is
> not.
> 
> Similarly, it's easy to show differences between using copy and using
> deepcopy as variants of the "copy every time" choice.

I'm really amazed (approaching on exasperated) at the length and
protractedness of this discussion.  All I was saying is that it was not
a priori a given that the current implementation was the only
reasonable, efficient, or obvious one.  There easily could have been
other choices made, such as the copy.copy (or copy.deepcopy) method I
suggest, or Brian's suggestion of stowing off actual bytecodes, or any
number of other solutions.  Would these solutions all be equivalent to
each other?  Of course not.  Why would they have to be?  Different
solutions are different solutions.

These choices weren't made, and I don't think anyone in this thread,
particularly myself, is suggesting that anything be changed.  The
"desired effect" (a slightly poor choice of words, since I'm not even
claiming to desire it) I was referring to was simply some well-defined
behavior where default arguments are not persistent objects.  There are
many ways this could be done.  _If_ one were chosen, then that would be
_the_ behavior, and that would become the standard.

For my original point -- which was simply that a priori the current
behavior was probably not explicitly chosen for any reason other than it
was the easiest to implement -- even the details of any such alternate
implementation are _irrelevant_.

I am not suggesting and have never suggested that such a change be made.
I am not suggesting and have never suggested, if that were the case, how
it should be done.  My point was completely lost in the nitpicking about
a three-line code sample I gave to illustrate a completely separate
point.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The more one is hated, I find, the happier one is.
\__/ Louis-Ferdinand Celine
    REALpolitik / http://www.realpolitik.com/
 Get your own customized newsfeed online in realtime ... for free!


From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 19 07:06:27 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:06:27 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <eCeC9.26263$744.955879@news1.tin.it> <rReC9.17366$0U1.1726665@news2.east.cox.net> <TYeC9.26326$744.959069@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <7h3r8dhvkbc.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> Richard Dillingham wrote:
> 
> >> It's better written as:
> >>
> >> if coords[0]<=posx<=coords[2] and coords[1]<=posy<=coords[3]:
> > 
> > Hmm.... I just tried that, and am quite amazed to find that it actually
> > works.
> 
> Python comparison operators CHAIN -- a wonderful little trait...

Indeed they do.  There's a wonderful little wart, though.  What does
this:

if 1 in [1] < 2:
  print 1
else:
  print 2

print?

Cheers,
M.
(actually, the answer may be Python version dependent...)

-- 
  I hate leaving Windows95 boxes publically accessible, so shifting
  even to NT is a blessing in some ways.  At least I can reboot them
  remotely in a sane manner, rather than having to send them malformed
  packets.      -- http://bofhcam.org/journal/journal.html, 20/06/2000


From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Nov  1 01:14:35 2002
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:14:35 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Python-based browser plugins?
In-Reply-To: <us3bepq31g8v57@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211010913080.1275-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Cameron Laird wrote:

> In article <Xns92B8E4A5A4BBCcliechtigmxnet at 62.2.16.82>,
> Chris Liechti  <cliechti at gmx.net> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> >here they say that nS and mozilla are compatible. (opera can use NS plugins 
> >too):
> >http://www.mozilla.org/docs/plugin.html
> >
> >and that could be a starting point:
> >http://entropymine.com/jason/plugins/links.html
> >
> >for IE, it seems that you have to write an activex component. but as usual 
> >with that OS, it's hard to find documentation or an example that helps...
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> I can hardly overemphasize how difficult it is
> to write a plugin nowadays.  Compatibility be-
> tween Microsoft and Mozilla ... well, I'll just
> say that I'm almost certain you're better off
> doing anything else, and certainly learning Java,
> than trying this approach, however reasonable it
> seems.

BTW, it is possible to run Jython inside Java Applet.


Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 






not to mailto:aaro at onego.ru 




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Nov 19 03:40:10 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:40:10 -0600
Subject: classifier systems re-coded in Python?
In-Reply-To: <arcg57$kg9$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> ("Matt Gerrans"'s
 message of "Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:53:13 -0800")
References: <mailman.1037670692.6438.python-list@python.org>
	<182dnaFhsdyUN0SgXTWcrg@comcast.com>
	<dwiC9.53310$Lg2.15307128@news2.news.adelphia.net>
	<VtadnbQSCav-X0SgXTWcpA@comcast.com>
	<arcg57$kg9$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <m2d6p2eyvp.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Matt" == Matt Gerrans <mgerrans at mindspring.com> writes:

    Matt> Google web APIs: http://www.google.com/apis/ --

For starters, something like

#!/usr/local/bin/python
import google, sys

# Get your own from http://www.google.com/apis/
google.LICENSE_KEY = 'blah blah'
data = google.doGoogleSearch(sys.argv[1])
 

for result in data.results:
    print 'Title: ', result.title
    print 'URL: ', result.URL
    print 'Summary: ', result.snippet
    print

The title and snippet fields are html, so you'd probably want to strip
the tags with your favorite html2txt converter, and you need to handle
non-ascii charsets....

John Hunter




From imbosol at vt.edu  Mon Nov 25 19:14:36 2002
From: imbosol at vt.edu (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:14:36 -0500
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no> <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no> <arsqsd$3j5$1@maud.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <aruf6o$bd7$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Andr? N?ss wrote:
> Now it's gonna be interesting to see if I ever run into a situation
> where I'd feel most comfortable doing an if <assignment>:, knowing
> that there are usually better ways of solving the problem.


Testing a bunch of regular expressions on some input and taking action
on the first match seems to do it for a lot of people.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From 2002 at weholt.org  Wed Nov  6 17:31:31 2002
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:31:31 GMT
Subject: Pydoc seem to ignore my comment
Message-ID: <7Lgy9.1510$P35.34492@news2.ulv.nextra.no>

If I do something like :

class Test:
    """
    Lots of docs.
    """
    def __init__(self):
        """
        Docs here too
        """

    def go(self):
        """
        More docs.
        """

The doc-string just below the class-definition is included, all other
doc-strings are ignored in the generated documentation. Why ????

How must a declare my doc-string for them to be included??

PS! Will pydoc ever support more elaborate things ( arguments description
etc. ) like JavaDoc and Effbots take on documentation generation?

Best regards,
Thomas





From rwadkins at flash.net  Thu Nov 14 13:53:07 2002
From: rwadkins at flash.net (Randy Wadkins)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 10:53:07 -0800
Subject: simple rsh and python question
Message-ID: <d453156a.0211141053.7de1422@posting.google.com>

Is there any way to rsh from a shell script to nodes in a cluster and
execute a python script that will run in the background on each node? 
It appears that the execution is stopped once the rsh command is
completed.

I'm thinking something along the lines of:

for x in node1  node2...(etc.)

do 
  rsh x$ python myscript.py "&"
done

but, the above doesn't really work.  The python job is terminated
before completion.
 
Thanks,
--Randy


From andersjm at inbound.dk  Sun Nov 10 12:08:55 2002
From: andersjm at inbound.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:08:55 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqlos7$66p$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <qpwz9.16127$oC3.1394670@news010.worldonline.dk>

"Pascal Costanza" <costanza at web.de> wrote:
> Michael Hudson wrote:
>
> > Did you know that s-exps (i.e. the paren heavy Lisp we know today) was
> > intended to be a temporary syntax, and that John McCarthy intended to
> > develop a more familiar syntax for Lisp?  Somehow he never did --
> > maybe because it turned out to be a bad idea?
>
> He did. But the programmers who were already using Lisp didn't accept
> the new syntax. They preferred s-exps.

I'm curious: what exactly did McCarthy's new syntax look like?  Have
you got any pointers to specs, examples or such on the web?

- Anders





From nas at python.ca  Mon Nov 11 19:49:35 2002
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:49:35 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <aqpf2i$7i9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqjr09$qbg$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <slrnasr9v1.267f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <tyfof8x1rkf.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <aqmqma$nsd$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <tyfvg34zeku.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1037052618.20223.python-list@python.org> <aqpf2i$7i9$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <20021112004935.GA23513@glacier.arctrix.com>

Pascal Costanza wrote:
> > (let ((*read-eval* nil))
>     (with-input-from-string (s "3.1415927")
>       (read s)))
> 3.1415927

I didn't know about *read-eval*.  Thanks for the tip.  Still:

    (defun parse-float (s)
      (let ((*read-eval* nil))
        (read-from-string s)))

    (defun doit ()
      (dotimes (i 100000)
        (parse-float "3.1415927")))

    (time (doit))

takes 1.507 seconds on my machine using SBCL.  The corresponding Python
code takes 0.19.

> (defun escape (s)
>   (with-output-to-string (out)
>     (with-input-from-string (in s)
>       (loop while (listen in)
>             do (let ((char (read-char in)))
>                  (case char
>                    (#\& (write-string "&amp;" out))
>                    (#\< (write-string "&lt;" out))
>                    (#\> (write-string "&gt;" out))
>                    (#\" (write-string "&quot;" out))
>                    (otherwise (write-char char out))))))))

> * This solution is inherently more efficient because it traverses the 
> input exactly once, whereas your solution traverses the input four times.

I wouldn't say inherently.  With a 26 character string I measure the
speed of the Python code to be the same as compiled Lisp code.  Still, I
like your solution.  Obviously I need to learn more about treating
strings as streams.  Thanks.

  Neil



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Tue Nov 19 02:01:43 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:01:43 GMT
Subject: stopping SimpleHTTPServer
Message-ID: <rllC9.1167$Kw6.763611@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

I have an application built on BaseHTTPServer.  Much of the code is borrowed
from SimpleHTTPServer (hence the subject).  In general, it runs on its own,
but it can serve an admin web page and respond to requests made therefrom.

The problem I am having is that I can't kill it remotely.  I put in a
sys.exit(), but that didn't do any good. Can anyone suggest a good way?

Actually, I would like a way to kill it from a command line as well.

Thanks,

-doug




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Nov  4 06:01:57 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:01:57 +0000
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
Message-ID: <cB12HJAlOlx9EwWy@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

Under 2.1 I used a version of the SimpleXMLRPCServer module that
contained support for intermittent XMLRCPC via a class called
CGIXMLRPCRequestHandler.

Under 2.2 it seems that SimpleXMLRPCServer has gone into the library,
but the CGI support classes are gone. Anyone know of a replacement? This
feature was really useful.
-- 
Robin Becker


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 22 09:56:41 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:56:41 GMT
Subject: int() shortcoming?
References: <y8h3cptpttf.fsf@spinetta.mcs.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <JArD9.57842$Yw.2616962@news2.tin.it>

Matthew Knepley wrote:

>        Is there a reason I should have to specify the base for a string
> conversion using int() when it is already clear from the form? For

Yes: the reason is the default is to use base 10.  If you want int to
figure out what base to use (8, 10, or 16) based on the form of the string,
pass 0 as the second parameter to int.


Alex



From joconnor at cybermesa.com  Fri Nov  8 00:19:41 2002
From: joconnor at cybermesa.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:19:41 +0700
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <20021108.115059.1034949299.9010@cybermesa.com> <uso37rcegqdpf6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20021108.121940.201305624.9010@cybermesa.com>

In article <uso37rcegqdpf6 at corp.supernews.com>, "Cameron Laird"
<claird at lairds.com> wrote:

> In article <20021108.115059.1034949299.9010 at cybermesa.com>, Jay O'Connor
> <joconnor at cybermesa.com> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
>>Yes, I was a Python advocate in a TCL shop for awhile and had a hard
>>time convincing
>>people that there was a qualitative difference between.
>>
>>set x [lindex [lindex $var 5] 5]
>>
>>and
>>
>>x = var[5][5]
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> Tcl has definite problems that are close to what this example expresses.
>  Somebody's tilting the idiomatic playing field, though; the experienced
> Tcl-ers I know would write
>   set x $var(5,5)
> rather than deal with the monstrosity above.

Unfortunately the code I was dealing with was using lists of lists of
lists nested many, many levels deep with no documentation in the code as
to why '5' was a particular field.

Try hundreds to thousands of lines of 'the monstrosity above' 

-- 
Jay O'Connor
joconnor at cybermesa.com
http://www.r4h.org/r4hsoftware


From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Nov 14 00:38:18 2002
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 05:38:18 GMT
Subject: What is the best way to join tuples?
References: <3dd32603$1_2@news.tm.net.my>
Message-ID: <eFGA9.20052$6Z.9560@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

from __future__ import generators
def enumerate(seq):
    i = 0
    for elem in seq:
        yield (i, elem)
        i += 1

# I have two list of tuples, eg something like
wxyTuple = [(1,1,1), (1,1,2), (1,2,1), (2,2,1)] # tuples of  (w,x,y)
xyzTuple = [(1,1,0), (1,2,1), (1,1,2)] # tuples of (x,y,z)

# and I want to join them together become (w,x,y,z), just like what we used
#to do with RDBMS by joining two tables together, with x,y acting as pivot.
#The result should be:

wxyzTuple = [(1,1,1,0),(1,1,1,2),(1,1,2,1),(1,2,1,-1),(2,2,1,-1)] # where -1
                            #is to indicate no match is found in xyzTuple

def tuplejoin(a, b, links):
    """ Join lists of tuples with specified link fields.

    Links is a list of field pairs showing the corresponding field
    numbers for the join.  For instance, the pair (2,4) indicates
    that a[2] should correspond to b[4].
    """

    akeys, bkeys = zip(*links)

    bindexed = {}
    for record in b:
        keys = tuple(map(record.__getitem__, bkeys))
        remainder = []   # fields not in the key, in the order found
        for pos, element in enumerate(record):
            if pos not in bkeys:
                remainder.append(element)
        bindexed.setdefault(keys, []).append(tuple(remainder))
        bremsiz = len(remainder)

    nomatch = (-1,) * bremsiz
    result = []
    for record in a:
        keys = tuple(map(record.__getitem__, akeys))
        matches = bindexed.get(keys, [nomatch])
        for match in matches:
            result.append(tuple(record) + match)
    return result

print tuplejoin(wxyTuple, xyzTuple, [(1,0),(2,1)])




From mikael at isy.liu.se  Tue Nov 19 09:42:48 2002
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:42:48 +0100
Subject: read from user
In-Reply-To: <20021119153642.539d4188.mikael@isy.liu.se>
References: <mOrC9.1963$8E1.35905@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<20021119153642.539d4188.mikael@isy.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20021119154248.75bf8145.mikael@isy.liu.se>

Hi again!

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:36:42 +0100
Me, myself and I wrote:
> Did you not get an error traceback? When I tried that in the
> interactive shell, I got 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 2, in ?
> NameError: name 'L' is not defined
> 
> after typing in the for loop. It simply tells you that there is no
> variable called L. What you need to do is to initiate L as an empty
> list before entering the loop.

I should have thought twice. You also need to append the new value to
your list in the loop, not assign it to L[i], since that slot does not
exist at the time.

/Mikael

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From claird at lairds.com  Fri Nov  8 07:47:39 2002
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:47:39 -0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <slrnasilb1.201.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org> <aqdpsq$5ur$4@srv38.cas.org>
Message-ID: <usncjb4tdjbbbf@corp.supernews.com>

In article <aqdpsq$5ur$4 at srv38.cas.org>,  <lvirden at yahoo.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Perhaps Guile programmers never saw a need for the facilities of perl/tcl/
>python.
			.
			.
			.
Guile dynamics are rather interesting, from what I
know.  There's a LOT to say about the needs Guile
programmers see.

One particular point of possible interest:  there
was, quite predictably a Guile Tk (guile-tk) <URL:
http://wiki.tcl.tk/GuileTk >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 25 05:40:09 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:40:09 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <mailman.1037993694.2261.python-list@python.org> <arm9oa$but$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <6qyD9.60432$Yw.2729711@news2.tin.it> <armdko$jgb$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <KsLD9.44802$744.1610007@news1.tin.it> <arrhh6$hur$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <d9dE9.68529$Yw.3238316@news2.tin.it> <arru5q$cl5$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <d6nE9.51628$744.1888267@news1.tin.it>

Pascal Costanza wrote:
   ...
>>>Er, I have thought that's exactly the point. What do you need a
>>>backstage language for that is less powerful than the frontstage
>>>language?
   ...
> Languages like C and assembler are more powerful than, say, Python
> because they allow you to circumvent type restrictions and fiddle with
> the operating system level.

I would take another tack, and say the key issue is rather than
those languages are "self-hosted" (so you can use machine language
to code a virtual machine for Python, potentially requiring just
the tiniest amount of support from some OS or equivalent piece of
software) and have some clear potential to generate extremely fast
code in the right circumstances.

If you look at other languages that are commonly used to write
Python extensions, such as Fortran, you'll notice that the second
consideration can often prevail.  Fortran is quite suitable to
get extremely fast code in the right circumstances -- depending
on the type of problem (it had better be basically about numerically
intensive computation on large arrays;-), Fortran compiler available,
and machine architecture (e.g., is the compiler able to vectorize
Fortran loops particularly well).

Another consideration is that I can often have already-existing,
well-tested, debugged, and optimized libraries coded in Fortran: sound
engineering principles then dictate it's better to reuse such code
rather than recoding it to great, avoidable expense of testing,
debugging and tuning.  Again, the ability to extend Python with
Fortran helps a lot here.

This is reasonably independent from what language has been used
to code the Python VM itself, as long as good support exist for
code from several languages to interoperate.  This is typically
the case between C and Fortran these days, for example.

So, that concept of a "backstage language" seems a bit too fuzzy
for maximum usefulness here -- it appears to me that it's mixing
roles of VM-implementation and of ability-to-extend (and of
course possibly to _embed_, which is close to the extension issue).

Such issues as "circumventing type restrictions", performance
apart, are rarely a problem.  For example, module struct lets
you make bytestrings out of elementary types and put elementary
type instances back together again from the bytestrings -- so
you may type-pun to your heart's content if you wish (at the
cost of some data copying back and forth in this case, but,
that's just a performancee consideration...).  Of course the
standard module struct is itself coded in C (or Java, or ...) --
but then so is all the rest of the Python VM -- so it's not
some special need arising in connection with type-punning, it's
just the same kind of underpinning that lets a Python program
compute a+b or print "hello world".  Somewhat similar thoughts
can apply to "operating system level", depending on what exactly
we mean by that -- for example, on Linux, lots of "operating system 
level" things can be done through the (pseudo-)files in the /proc 
filesystem; on Windows, the ability to edit the registry (and
even more the ability to talk COM) enables even more operations.


> Common Lisp is more powerful than Python because it has the code=data
> feature that allows you to create new language features and some
> sophisticated and efficient algorithms.

That's presumably a novel idea in this connection, yes.

> Languages like Python, Ruby, Lua and so on make use of C as a
> "backstage" language in order to expand their possibilities. I believe

Actually, to have ANY "possibilities" whatsoever.  C is first of
all used to make the languages able to execute anything at all; in
second-order consideration, it may also be used to create further
extensions (mostly for speed or reuse of existing libraries rather
than to "expand possibilities" stricto sensu).

> that they could also benefit from Common Lisp as a backstage language.

That's quite possible -- distinguishing the two sub-issues of
ability to write extensions vs necessarily having the whole Python
VM coded in CL.  If you can pick a CL implementation that has a
good "foreign function interface" (or however it chooses to call
it), you can presumably write the code needed to let extensions
coded in that CL implementation interoperate with Python code, as
has been done for Fortran and other languages.  Having the whole
VM be in CL seems a different, separate project, with benefits
and costs different from the "CL for extensions" project -- e.g.
among the benefits the ability to use any CL implementation rather
than being tied to one or a few that supply the FFI you want,
among the costs the need to recode all the currently-C-coded Python 
standard library modules which, in a "CL for extensions" setting, 
you could simply reuse without any effort.


> So my mental model is as follows: Scripting languages allow you to
> solve, say, 90% of the problems in straightforward and simple ways.
> However, some problems are complicated or demanding enough that you (or
> "someone";) needs to revert to the more powerful backstage language.

I think this model lacks the key features of speed and code reuse.

> I don't see how Java can play this role for Python because Java neither
> allows you to fiddle with the machine level nor allows for writing
> complicated algorithms, at least not when compared to Python.

I consequently think the "don't see" comes from thise missing
aspects in the model.  Speed is still more of a promise than any
actual Java characteristic, admittedly.  But code reuse has its
substantial importance too.

> Or is there something I miss?

I think so and I've tried to show why.  There's more, too:


>>>(I guess that Jython is useful to take advantage of the Java
>>>APIs and its platform independence.)
>> 
>> That's a typical reason to choose Jython rather than CPython, yes --
>> being able to take advantage of existing Java-coded libraries (including
>> the APIs of the various Java-based standards), and/or of platforms able
>> to run Java bytecode (including various JVMs).
> 
> Are there other reasons?

Sure, for example customers who *specify* the product they purchase be 
delivered as Java bytecode (often with a specific requirement for "100% 
Pure Java", a specialized techno/commercial term;-).  A cognate case is 
that in which a Java application is already running and Python is chosen to 
extend that application with more features, most particularly the ability 
for end-users to script the existing application -- you could see this as a 
case of code reuse, taking the existing application as basically tantamount 
to a set of libraries, or as a case of customer-imposed constraint, where 
the "customer" is most often the same programming team which had developed 
the Java application and is now choosing how best to extend it.


Alex



From jon_bills at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 16 07:18:14 2002
From: jon_bills at hotmail.com (Jon Bills)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:18:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037329485.24812.python-list@python.org> <yu99y97vvu1b.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <mailman.1037404224.6238.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar5d25$eeb$1@venus.btinternet.com>

Chad Netzer wrote:
> On Friday 15 November 2002 05:31, Andrew Koenig wrote:
>
>> Simon> Yeah there's plenty of nice things in the STL, but it's a
>> Simon> library, not part of the language.
>>
>> The distinction isn't particularly important.
>
> True, but I think the original point in the thread was that in
> describing Python, you have to almost immediately talk about tuples,
> lists, and dictionaries, since they are so important to the core
> language (argument passing, multiple argument returns, introspection
> of objects, namespaces, etc.), as well as being immediately useful
>  builtin datatypes for programmers. With C++, you can get away with
> not discussing many of the standard library containers, until after
> you have discussed references, pointers, call-by-value vs.
> call-by-ref, etc.

That might be technically true, but its not very useful. You would be doing
a newcomer to C++ an injustice by not teaching the mechanisms which allow
them to build useful programs easily, regardless of whether those mechanisms
exist in the language or standard library. This leads me to believe the
distinction between language and library, at least in this context, is not
very valuable.

Jon.




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov  7 10:20:23 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:20:23 GMT
Subject: variable name lookup
References: <aqdtbk$311f$1@vishnu.jussieu.fr>
Message-ID: <Xwvy9.3694$XO.135820@news2.tin.it>

ffdsfdsfds wrote:

> Hi,
> I would like to know which method of the dictionary object
> is used for the lookup of variables at execution of the bytecode.\

You can check in ceval.c, and you'll find out that strictly
speaking none is...:

case LOAD_GLOBAL:
        w = GETITEM(names, oparg);
        if (PyString_CheckExact(w)) {
                /* Inline the PyDict_GetItem() calls.
                   WARNING: this is an extreme speed hack.
                   Do not try this at home. */
                long hash = ((PyStringObject *)w)->ob_shash;
  [ etc etc, snipped; lines 1714 ff in ceval.c for Python 2.2.2 ]

i.e., because of the necessary "extreme speed hack", PyDict_GetItem
isn't exactly "used" -- rather, it's basically duplicated inline
right in the "case LOAD_GLOBAL:" leg of the switch (when the
variable's name is of type string exactly).

I'm not sure why you need this information, but if it's in order
to be able to use a subclass of dict and override its methods to
influence variable lookup, forget it -- none of the various var
access paths in ceval.c uses namespace dictionaries at all
polymorphically (for local variables in particular, this is
even reflected in the bytecode, e.g. LOAD_FAST rather than
LOAD_GLOBAL or LOAD_NAME...).  Speed, apparently, is just too
important here for this fundamental task to be handled in any
other way except full-speed-ahead.


Alex



From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Nov  8 15:34:13 2002
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:34:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqgka6$t8j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqh2bo$7ti$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <aqh745$1iv$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?= <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:

>Eddie Corns wrote:

>>>I don't know much about Python, but I looked at this comparison
>>>between Python and Common Lisp (
>>>http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html ), and I couldn't help but
>>>wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
>> 
>> My opinion (the short version anyway) is that because Python is a lot easier
>> to learn and use.  It's a bit like the difference between a point and click
>> camera and a 'real' one - to use a 'real' camera for even a simple photo you
>> need to understand the whole biz.  However, unlike some languages I won't
>> mention, Python does its best to give the max. power (of Scheme,Haskell
>> etc.) for the max. ease of use.

>Flawed analogy, I think. 

>I'd rather say: python is like a modern SLR with full auto modes: you can use 
>it like a point'n'shoot, but still get very good results and the benefit of 
>good lenses and a sophisticated exposure system. But once you move the dial 
>to the 'manual' zone (P,Tv,Av,M for the photo-buffs) you are on your own, 
>with as much control as you want (from simple adjustments in P to full manual 
>in M).

>So in python the beginner feels comfortable, but he can grow into 
>sophisticated things without the tool _ever_ getting in his way. That's why 
>the point'n'shoot analogy is bad: in that case, the tool gets in your way and 
>limits what you can do. 

>If you want, Pascal is the point'n'shoot of programming languages: easy for 
>beginners, utterly useless for serious work (yes, I wrote tons of pascal back 
>in the day,  so I know what I'm talking about).

>Lisp feels more like a viewcamera. You can't get _anything_ done unless you 
>understand the fundamentals very well. But if you do, there are some very 
>fancy things you can do.

Obviously one doesn't want to push an analogy too far but anyway it depends on
what you think of as 'manual', I'm thinking call/cc and roll your own OO
systems and ...  A modern point'n'shoot will allow you to do many of the
things real professionals do (I hope so anyway I'm about to buy one!) but not
the most extreme.  Likewise there are things Scheme can do that would be crazy
to try in Python.  Perhaps I'm being optimistic about the capabilities of
modern p'n's cameras but my impression is most of us wouldn't really want to
venture much outside what they can do - so they don't get in the way.

Anyway, that's my say on the topic - now it's time to go home and feed the
cat.

Eddie


From straton at lampsacos.demon.co.uk  Wed Nov  6 07:18:19 2002
From: straton at lampsacos.demon.co.uk (Ken Starks)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:18:19 +0000
Subject: loggin out automatically
References: <1036253358.19897.0@doris.uk.clara.net>
 <PYgtuoA9YVx9EwVx@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <usdc39rpvohtd5@corp.supernews.com>
 <3DC718BE.7060706@cyberspace.org> <usea4eqqgbrped@corp.supernews.com>
 <3DC853DF.6060509@cyberspace.org>
Message-ID: <99OxHLALiQy9EwYf@lampsacos.demon.co.uk>

In article <3DC853DF.6060509 at cyberspace.org>, trewornan
<treworn at cyberspace.org> writes
>I am responsible for maintaining a PC in a hotel which is available for use of 
>guests, basically just e-mail and web browsing. 
<snip>
>I begin to suspect this might be beyond my capabilities.
Once you have a Linux solution, which should not be too 
difficult, the python `Front end' should follow along easily.

But do you need to log them off at all ? Why not just allow
them to stay on, and charge it to their bill ? They are
likely to get pretty annoyed if you log them off half way 
through writing an important letter.

The Linux log files will tell you to the second when they 
logged off and when they logged on.

Linux solution or not, python may come into it. A Zope
server must surely be one of the easiest to set up, and
you could provide your guests and staff with all sorts
of desirable facilities.


-- 
Ken Starks


From boud at valdyas.org  Fri Nov 15 09:51:32 2002
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:51:32 +0100
Subject: keyword arguments and **
Message-ID: <3dd51831$0$13642$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl>

I feel right silly, but for the life of I don't understand why
the variables I pass to f as named arguments stay remembered:

>>> def f(fields={}, **args):
...     print fields
...     fields.update(args)
...     print "XXX", fields
... 
>>> f(a=1)
{}
XXX {'a': 1}
>>> f(a=1)
{'a': 1}
XXX {'a': 1}
>>> f(b=1)
{'a': 1}
XXX {'a': 1, 'b': 1}
>>> 


-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov 15 16:09:04 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:09:04 -0600
Subject: A really bad idea.
In-Reply-To: <m2adkawphm.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com>
        <4STA9.9987$744.345722@news1.tin.it>
        <jc58tugirbnbtn1i7e2kf7of4l3ltt665e@4ax.com>
        <mailman.1037315122.20415.python-list@python.org>
        <3DD44152.69795B9F@alcyone.com>
        <mailman.1037334449.14338.python-list@python.org>
        <t3iatu891qt9n74hfld92cnqgmmgg02jdv@4ax.com>
        <15829.21594.896779.746111@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <m2adkawphm.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <15829.25200.615655.804367@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    John> What is the python-mode function that you bind F1 to?  That sounds
    John> useful.

py-help-at-point.  I'm using python-mode 4.11.  I believe it's part of
recent versions.  (I wrote it awhile ago and Barry added it, including the
key binding.)

Skip



From thorsten at goertz.com  Wed Nov  6 07:58:36 2002
From: thorsten at goertz.com (Thorsten Goertz)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 04:58:36 -0800
Subject: How to use zipfile
References: <3dc8c6b3$1@shknews01>
Message-ID: <baad20ed.0211060458.2753d817@posting.google.com>

I use it in this way:

import zipfile
archive = zipfile.ZipFile( "abc.zip", "w", zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED )
source = "a.txt"
destination = source
archive.write( source, destination )
archive.close( )

I'd prefer to create a "virtual directory" in the root of the zipfile
(with destination = os.path.join( "abc", source ). Archives without
this virtual root directory sometimes caused trouble to me. I unzipped
an archive and contaminated the current directory with a lot of files
that I expected to be in a subdir that has been named like the
archive...


"Jack Lau" <jack98lau at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3dc8c6b3$1 at shknews01>...
> Hello,
> 
> I am a beginner to learn python. Could anyone tell me how to use zipfile. I
> want to zip a file like "a.txt" and zipped it into "abc.zip". Then how can I
> do ?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


From jwbaxter at spamcop.net  Tue Nov 12 01:57:28 2002
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.net (John Baxter)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:57:28 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <7h3k7jlwock.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqlos7$66p$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <qpwz9.16127$oC3.1394670@news010.worldonline.dk> <3dce96ad$0$12451$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> <3DCEB61A.EF3D8E05@alcyone.com> <3DCEBA43.941F62A2@alcyone.com> <3dcf6a25$0$35901$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <jwbaxter-D16FFF.08350811112002@corp-radius.supernews.com> <aqp1et$iqd$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <jwbaxter-C8214B.22572811112002@corp-radius.supernews.com>

In article <aqp1et$iqd$0 at 216.39.172.122>, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) 
wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:35:09 -0800, John Baxter <jwbaxter at spamcop.net> wrote:
> 
> >In article <3dcf6a25$0$35901$edfadb0f at dread13.news.tele.dk>,
> > "Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> wrote:
> >
> >> A fascinating read - like
> >> when they invented garbage collection because they didn't have enough
> >> spare bits for reference counting in the IBM 704 machine word ;)
> >> 
> >> on-a-64-bit-machine-would-McCarthy-have-invented-Python-instead?-ly y'rs,
> >
> >We might have found out, had IBM ever gotten "Stretch" to work.
> >
> I thought there was a "Stretch" doing production work at a Navy lab in the 
> 60's.

There might well have been.  "A Stretch" after all the effort IBM put 
into the beast isn't very impressive...unless of course there were 
others.  But the whole line headed by the 704 died very early in 360 
time (much to the disgust of folks who needed the capabilities the line 
had and the 360 didn't do well).

  --John


From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Nov 10 13:36:03 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 10:36:03 -0800
Subject: RE - non-greedy - some greediness - complete greediness
References: <mailman.1036918692.17309.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211101036.18ee229a@posting.google.com>

Doru-Catalin Togea <doru-cat at ifi.uio.no> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036918692.17309.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi!
> 
> I am working on a little project where i need REs with a self-defined
> level of greediness.
> 
> I am processing text in a Latex like manner, for those of you who are
> familiar with it.
> 
> I want to be able to recognize Latex-like commands within my text. A
> command starts with a character, say '\' followed by the command's name
> and followed by the text on which the command applies enclosed in curly
> brackets. Examples:
> 
> 	\footnote{some text}
> 	\cite{some referance}
> 	\section{some title}
> 
> Recognizing such patterns and retriving the name of the command and the
> text on which the command applies is not so difficult to achieve. Things
> get complicated though when one encounters nested commands.
> 
> Say I have the following string:
> 
>  "abcd \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl} mnop \footnote{hello there}"
>                                   ^     ^                           ^
>  closing bracket of nested \cite  |     |                           |
>     closing bracket of first \footnote  |                           |
>                                closing bracket of second \footnote  |
> 
> By using non-greedy REs, I would get recognized the following footnotes:
> 	1) \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1}
> 	2) \footnote{hello there}
> 
> The first matching is wrong because the first '}' encountered belongs to
> the nested \cite command. The second matching is correct.
> 
> By using greedy REs, I would get recognized the following pattern:
> 	1) \footnote{efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl} mnop \footnote{hello there}
> 
> This is wrong because a) there are two \footnote commands in my string, so
> I should get two matchings, and b) the first \footnote command should be
> applied only to the "efgh \cite{myRef1} ijkl" substring.
> 
> In other words I need to be able to specify the level of greediness my REs
> should have. Is it possible? If yes, how?
> 
> I have an idea of how to solve my problem without REs, by counting the
> opening and closing curly brackets and reasoning algorithmically about
> where within my text each nested command begins and ends. The question is
> can the above stated problem be solved elegantly by means of REs?
> 
> With best regards,
> Catalin
> 
> 
> 	<<<< ================================== >>>>
> 	<<     We are what we repeatedly do.      >>
> 	<<  Excellence, therefore, is not an act  >>
> 	<<             but a habit.               >>
> 	<<<< ================================== >>>>

look at

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=2259b0e2.0211060659.30631e4f%40posting.google.com&prev=/groups%3Fdq%3D%26num%3D25%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python%26start%3D150


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 12:56:05 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:56:05 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1037846248.22487.python-list@python.org> <m2bs4jc8jl.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <tZ5D9.36447$744.1329828@news1.tin.it> <3DDD0699.5080007@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <V69D9.52271$Yw.2392637@news2.tin.it>

Kenny Tilton wrote:
   ...
>> -- Dylan has no lisp-oid syntax, yet Dylan's capabilities do appear to be
>> quite similar to Lisp's at least at the level of approximation that
>> "major source" would seem to entail.
> 
> Pardon the hearsay, but more knowledgable CL folks than I, when this
> comes up, always say the sexpr notation is vital to CL. Macros, I think,
> are one example. But don't hold me to that. Code as data? Something like
> that.
> 
> Mind you, Dylan /does/ capture much of CL, so you are not far off.

Dylan has macros too.  So isn't "major source" at least an overbid, if "I'm 
not far off" in stating that a language with a totally different syntax
can "capture much" of the same capabilities?


Alex



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 10 02:17:54 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 07:17:54 GMT
Subject: indexed looping, functional replacement?
References: <3fe406f0.0211091037.2795e538@posting.google.com> <9Xcz9.15450$XO.672555@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aql172$jmn$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 19:00:21 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
[...]
>In Python 2.3, the enumerate built-in will do just that:
>
>[alex at lancelot alf]$ python2.3
>Python 2.3a0 (#4, Nov  6 2002, 09:18:17)
>[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk)] on linux2
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> for x in enumerate('ciao'): print x
>...
>(0, 'c')
>(1, 'i')
>(2, 'a')
>(3, 'o')
>>>>
>
>In Python 2.2, you can try various inferior alternatives, e.g.:
>
>for f, i in zip(fn, range(len(fn))):
>    f(str(i))
>

Is there something I'm missing, or did the cat distract you ;-)

 >>> for f, s in zip(fl, sl):
 ...     f(s)
 ...
 f1: bbb
 f2: sdf
 f3: sdw

(fl and sl being alternate names for fn and str as used)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Tue Nov 12 16:07:18 2002
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:07:18 -0200
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
In-Reply-To: <m37kfi1q07.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <yu993cq6hels.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <mailman.1037127134.12999.python-list@python.org> <m37kfi1q07.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20021112190718.A31484@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> > > >>> x = (1, 2, 3)
> > [...]
> > > >>> x += (4, 5, 6)
> > 
> > Hey, shouldn't this raise an exception?
> 
> Because the tuple is immutable? Then would you expect
> 
> x += 1
> 
> to raise an exception also?

Good point. I was wrongly interpreting it like [].extend.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]



From patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au  Wed Nov 20 18:50:05 2002
From: patrickw106 at yahoo.com.au (Patrick W)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 10:50:05 +1100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <87u1ib6bte.fsf@key.localdomain>

Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> writes:

> 2. try to write something in 1-100 lines in CL that couldn't easier be
>    written in e.g. python.

Lots of things are easier in CL.
A simple example:

(defclass thing () ())
(defclass paper (thing) ())
(defclass rock (thing) ())
(defclass scissors (thing) ())

(defgeneric beats? (thing thing))
(defmethod beats? ((x thing) (y thing)) nil)
(defmethod beats? ((x paper) (y rock)) t)
(defmethod beats? ((x rock) (y scissors)) t)
(defmethod beats? ((x scissors) (y paper)) t)



From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Nov 13 05:58:22 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:58:22 GMT
Subject: call by reference (c module)
References: <mailman.1037175443.12760.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ifqA9.4060$Yw.180091@news2.tin.it>

Brian Lee wrote:

> Hi, I am newbie!
> 
> (1) call by reference
> 
> I am trying to make a simple C module. Follow is a brief example
> for my situation. How can I use `call by reference' to put argument
> value to C module?
> 
> a = 1
> import some_c_module
> some_c_module.function(a) # function change variable a to 2
> print a                   # I want a to be 2 (not 1)

You cannot do this.  There is no way for a called function to
mess with the bindings of names-to-values in its caller (no
matter whether the called function is coded in C or Python).

The Pythonic approach is to have a called function RETURN its
results.  If the function has several values to return, the
function should return a tuple of results.


> (2) un-fixed size of arguments to a C module.
> 
> Is there any (easy) way to put un-fixed size of arguments to a
> C module? I tested PyArg_ParseTuple() but I don't know how to
> manage un-fixed size of values with it.

If you really have a fixed number of arguments, some of which are
optional, e.g:

    int a, b, c, d=23, e=42;
    if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "iii|ii", &a, &b, &c, &d, &e))
        return NULL;

the | in the format string means all following arguments are
optional; be sure to give the default value to the corresponding
C-level variables before you call PyArg_ParseTuple, since those
variables won't be changed if the corresponding optional argument
is not present.

If you just want your C code to receive and handle a tuple with
any number of Python objects, one per argument that was passed,
you already have that -- it's the "args" tuple.  You can for
example learn how many arguments were passed with
PyTuple_Size(args), peek at e.g. the 3rd one with PyTuple_GetItem(args, 2), 
and so on.  In other words, you are absolutely NOT limited to using
PyArgs_ParseTuple to get at your arguments -- you can treat the
args tuple just as you might any other tuple of Python objects.


Alex





From tracy at reinventnow.com  Thu Nov 21 14:07:05 2002
From: tracy at reinventnow.com (Tracy Ruggles)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 11:07:05 -0800
Subject: lib-dynload mysteriously not in sys.path anymore...
Message-ID: <dd32f595.0211211107.16d62fad@posting.google.com>

I woke up this morning to see that my copy of Python (2.2.2) no longer
starts up with '/usr/local/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload' in its sys.path
anymore.

It was working fine yesterday, today it isn't.

2 big things I did between yesterday and today:
  -- upgraded my MacOS X from 10.2.1 to 10.2.2
  -- installed ghostscript-7.0.4

Has anyone else had their lib-dynload disappear from the path?  How do
I get lib-dynload to reappar in the path automatically?

For the time being, I've added
sys.path.append('/usr/local/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload') to the top of
my scripts.

Thanks,
Tracy


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 10 00:09:43 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 05:09:43 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE: Extending Python with C
References: <3dcc7e2c.3568851@news.earthlink.net> <Di3z9.8445$Bs5.288545@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aqkpmn$squ$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 08:02:43 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
[...]
>
>This is more or less the end of the line in terms of what
>os.popen can offer -- due to buffering and suchlike there's
>no practical way for python to drive BOTH standard input
>and standard-output of another external program.

I think there *ought* to be a practical way, *and* amongst the batteries ;-)

It's hard to believe that, for NT at least, someone out there
hasn't written a console proxy module that could interface to console
apps the way typing and viewing in a console window does, so something
like the following (unimplemented) code would work as expected, without
(or at least transparently hiding) the buffering problems of the popen
family. (Exception handling omitted here):

import ConsoleProxy as CP
cp = CP.ConsoleProxy('some_console_app.exe') # w/ opt args for cmdline, env, working dir, etc.
while 1:
    line = raw_input('> ')
    if line == 'quit': break
    cp.write(line)
    print cp.read12()	# example convenience method to get both stdout & stderr
del cp

As you point out, TMTOWTDI applies in spades, but if there's
a solid way to run a program to do what you want from the
console window command line, why shouldn't there be a solid
way to use that via something like the above? (Especially handy for
those who don't have compilers or ready knowledge to make C extensions).

I haven't needed such a thing yet, but if I had to, I think I
could make one, and that generally means someone already has ;-)

[... further TMTOWTDI elaborations snipped ...]

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dkwolfe at pacbell.net  Sat Nov 23 22:56:45 2002
From: dkwolfe at pacbell.net (Dan Wolfe)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 19:56:45 -0800
Subject: Zope on MacOs X trobleshooting
References: <e1119919.0211211217.1875e02a@posting.google.com> <257c96b0.0211221744.60ff122@posting.google.com> <e1119919.0211231039.334db022@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <257c96b0.0211231956.601aa5d3@posting.google.com>

catonano at inwind.it wrote in message news:<e1119919.0211231039.334db022 at posting.google.com>...
> > More likely that not, Zope doesn't understand that the hostname may
> > change between launches where in one instance you were connected to
> > the net and the next you are not.
> 
> Since the hostname output is the same, how can Zope detect what the
> network situation is?

Well, first of all, Zope is a server - and therefore doesn't expect
the network to change under it while running. IMO, it should, however,
check for a new hostname when its first launched. The hostname may
however be part of the configuration file setting so check to see if
there's a note in there as I'm not familiar with Zope.

Secondly, I'm not sure if Zope can cope with Rendezvous addresses
format yet.  There's one app that I know breaks as a result of this
new format.

> More clearly: how can I install Zope in a way it doesn't depend on the
> network I was on when I installed?

If your going between a network and a non network location, and want
to use Zope in both, you might try changing the hostname=-AUTOMATIC-
in /etc/hostconfig to hostname =-<yourhostname>-. I believe this work
but you'll need to try it and see. It will probably prevent you from
using the network unless you manually switch hostnames.... .

To answer your other question, -AUTOMATIC- setting automatically
switches the hostname when the connection goes down... but it takes a
couple of seconds to recognize that the net has gone down before
switching. Thus, you probably where able to launch Zope with it still
pointing to the old hostname and was therefore sucessful.

- Dan


From michel.l.combe at free.fr  Wed Nov 27 05:15:17 2002
From: michel.l.combe at free.fr (Michel COMBE)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:15:17 +0100
Subject: Get yesterday's date
Message-ID: <3de49b30$0$20703$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I need to run a SQL query on a MySQL database to get yesterday's records.
How do I specify "yesterday" ?
Isn't there some kind of date arithmetic in Python or should I use an
external library ?
Which library ?

Thanks for your answer

Michel COMBE




From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Sat Nov  9 10:20:31 2002
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 16:20:31 +0100
Subject: Python embedded into C#, how?
References: <rM1x9.3985$mN6.1275455@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <uwunmahxc.fsf@online.no>

"Brant Harris" <bharris at students.depaul.edu> writes:

> I'm creating a C# application and I thought that it would be quite
> cool if
> 
> it could run py scripts and have an interface to the python
> interpreter so
> 
> that people could run python commands to drive various parts of the
> program.
> 
> 
> I don't really know the best way to do this.  If I could drive python
> through C++, then I could throw that into C#.  I have been trying to
> wrestle
> 
> with making a COM object, but it seems like a major headache, and I
> can't
> 
> seem to actually use the COM object once it's used.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated, thank you.

As far as I can remember the Python interpreter is exposed as a COM
object when you install win32all. I think its ProgId is
Python.Interpreter. You can look all this up in Python programming on
win32 O'Reilly, Robinson and Hammond, or you could use oleview.

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad


From herrn at gmx.net  Thu Nov  7 17:46:08 2002
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 22:46:08 GMT
Subject: default argument depending on another argumen?
Message-ID: <aqeqff$92dk3$2@ID-165840.news.dfncis.de>

Hi, 

I want to define a function like this:

def foo(self, bar, x= bar.x):
    ....
    pass

Now I have the problem that 'bar' isn't really known when defining this
function.
So how can I achieve this behaviour?

Bye
Marco


-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Mon Nov 18 18:22:33 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:22:33 +1300
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <c0abefc3.0211161052.2b2fd2d3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DD97639.2070600@something.invalid>

M wrote:

> Operator overloading. Why should we have it?


For consistency. So that user-defined types have the
same rights and privileges as built-in ones.

 > Just so that you can write vector1 + vector2
 > instead of vector1.add(vector2)?

If you're not heavily into linear algebra you might
not see the value of this, but believe me, it can
make a HUGE difference to the readability of code
that manipulates matrices and vectors a lot. Try
to explain to the Numeric people that they should
enjoy writing matrix1.add(matrix2) all the time
and see how far you get...:-)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From emile at fenx.com  Sun Nov  3 02:12:05 2002
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 23:12:05 -0800
Subject: List slice assignment and custom sequences
References: <3DC429DA.D11E051C@alcyone.com> <2283AD34-EEB4-11D6-867B-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>
Message-ID: <aq2i60$51g$1@main.gmane.org>

Ronald Oussoren
> Sure, but xrange was just an example. FYI the actual type is NSArray
> (http://pyobjc.sourceforge.net). We'd like to make this type act as
> closely as possible like a normal list to avoid unnecessary
conversions
> to/from python types.
>

Well then, as a list won't do what you want, at least since object/class
unification you can get closer by shadowing list:



F:\Python22>python
ActivePython 2.2.1 Build 222 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
Python 2.2.1 (#34, Apr 15 2002, 09:51:39) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from __future__ import generators
>>> def xx():
...     for i in range(10):
...             yield i
...
>>>
>>> def listify(listwithiterables):
...     retval = []
...     from types import StringTypes
...     try:
...         for ii in listwithiterables:
...             if type(ii) in StringTypes:
...                 retval.append(ii)
...             else:
...                 try:
...                     retval.extend(ii)
...                 except:
...                     retval.append(ii)
...     except: pass
...     return retval
...
>>>
>>> class List(list):
...     setslice = list.__setslice__
...     def __setslice__(self, beg, end, iterobj):
...         List.setslice(self, beg, end, listify(iterobj))
...
>>>
>>> list=List
>>>
>>> l = list((1,2,3,4))
>>>
>>> l[1:3] = xrange(10)
>>> l[6:10] = xx()
>>>
>>> print l
[1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 9, 4]
>>>
>>> l = [1,2,3]
>>> l[:]=xx()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: must assign list (not "generator") to slice
>>> l = list(l)
>>> l[:]=xx()
>>> l
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
>>>

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------






From goldbb2 at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  8 04:00:45 2002
From: goldbb2 at earthlink.net (Benjamin Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 04:00:45 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <aqbe90$85d$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <aqbimo$a36$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <aqfor2$cv5$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>
Message-ID: <3DCB7D3D.B2EAAB0F@earthlink.net>

Walter Roberson wrote:
> 
> In article <aqbimo$a36$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>, Frodo Morris  <""> wrote:
> :Perdantick bast.  :-)
> 
> Hmmm, according to OED, "bast" means "sanctuary, refuge, asylum".
> 
> :Imagine if parrot could understand all currently- and popularly-
> :implemented interpreted languages.
> 
> Such as Forth, Word Perfect Macros, Microsoft Visual Basic,
> and Befunge?? (You haven't been very specific on the meaning of
> 'popularly'.)

Is it (currently) possible to put Word Perfect macros into a file, and
run that file as a script?

And I think that it's actually highly probable that a translator from
MSVB to Parrot will be written... or rather, a translator from MSIL or
from .NET to Parrot.

> Now, Parrot is intended for interpreted languages, right? And
> the fundamental feature of such languages is that you should
> be able to compute a string and then execute the string as
> a statement. So Parrot will have to know how to execute statements
> in arbitrary source languages.

Well, not parrot *itself* ... you'll have a compiler (written in parrot)
which translates the other language to parrot bytecode.  When some piece
of code does eval $string, it calls to the translator, then runs the
resultant bytecode.

> This means that it isn't enough to have a (say) bash-to-parrot
> translator that translates the program and hands it off to parrotd:
> the entire translator is going to have to be input along with the
> translated source.

Fortuantly, parrot is able to defer loading of modules until they're
needed.  You hand off the translated source, and as soon as it runs into
an eval $string operation, it loads up the translator, then runs the
translator and continues on it's merry way.

> This indirectly raises an interesting point. If parrotd is glued into
> the operating system as part of exec() as has been proposed (as
> opposed to the counter proposal to just let #! do its standard job)
> then the implication is that there is only one parrot implimentation
> per system.

Yes, this does sound like what was being proposed.

However, nothing prevents you from having more than one parrot kernel
plugin, the selection of which would be distinguished by a version
number in the header of the bytecode file.

> How would one then test new versions of Parrot?

Well, instead of typing in "bytecodeprogram" at the commandline, you
would have to type in "parrot bytecodeprogram", where "parrot" is your
path to your newer version of parrot.

Or perhaps you would do:
   parrot_daemon --nokernel &
   parrot_send_to_daemon bytecodeprogram

(or something like that)

Obviously this won't be *quite* the same environment as the kernel's
plugged-in parrot interpreter daemon, but it will be sufficiently close
for *most* forms of testing.

> With #! it's easy: you just name the path to the alternative
> interpreter and the kernel invokes it. But if parrotd is built right
> into exec() then in order to support multiple versions of Parrot, you
> would have to build the new versions -in- Parrot and pass them in as
> yet another layer of interpreter.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

> e.g., parrotd version 6.302 is running and it has been passed a copy
> of the bash2parrot 4.19 translator

Err, no.  You would have a program which was originally written in bash,
then translated into parrot bytecode.  All places where strings need to
be translated at runtime (via the eval command) are set up to load up
the bash translator, then translate that string, then run the string.

The bash2parrot translator would not be *included* in the translated
bytecode, though -- only the name of the module, or maybe the filename
of the module.  Vaguely like how one shared object can depend on another
one, or even whole reams of other ones -- but they don't get loaded
until functions in them get called.

> in case it needs to interpret a computed string that invokes a program

Ok, at this point, stop, and take a breath.  When your translated bash
program wants to "invoke a program", *how* that program's guts work is
beyond it's concern -- it merely calls fork and exec and wait.

The fact that the exec() may send the filename and args and environment
to a different parrot daemon is irrelevant to that process.

> that needs to layer on the experimental parrotd 6.4.9 interpreter that

What do you mean 'layer on' ?

> has to be passed the perl2parrot translator in case it needs to

Again, nothing is passing around translators -- they only get loaded
when they are needed.

> interpret a computed string that invokes a program
> that needs to have -another copy- of parrotd 6.302 layered on [you
> can't count on parrotd 6.4.9 running parrotd 6.302 programs the same
> way that parrotd 6.302 would run them] that has the <etc.> interpeter
> layered on to run <etc.>.

Your confusion seems to mainly stem from three things:  You're not
paying attention to process boundaries, and you think that every
translated program in language X has the translator for X to parrot
embedded into it, and exec() doesn't invoke a sub-process, it replaces
the current process with a new process  (That's why you have to fork()
first if you want a sub-process).

Once you have a better understanding of the unix process model, the
problems you've sketched will disappear.

> Scheme is right at home at dealing with these kinds of layering
> issues, using a process called "reflection" [well developed by Brian
> Reid and Jeem Desriviers]. They aren't straight-forward issues: think
> about debugging, and think about re-entrancy, and think about problems
> in cross-layer pollution -- you don't want a wild pointer in the fifth
> layer down to affect your third layer, right?

Fortuantly for us, seperate processes have their own memory address
spaces, so this isn't a concern.

> Speaking of layers: I take it that some thought has been put into
> how to do operating-system escapes? So that one can (for example)
> handle graphics? Or even just sockets? Seeing as some of the most
> popular interpreted languages are by no means restricted to text-only
> and have networking capabilities?

Remember, the parrot interpreter is written in C... it has to be. 
Obviously, one would have parrot opcodes which result in calls to C
functions, which perform socket operations or graphics or whatever.

> But of course the appropriate calls could come within one of the
> computed strings, so any escape cannot be absolute and must instead be
> handled via the interpretation layer (c.f. the above in which I showed
> that parrotd must be built in Parrot if you want parrotd to be handled
> at the exec() level...)

You can't write parrotd in parrot -- you have to write it in something
which runs on the hardware (elf or a.out).

Writing parrotd in parrot is similar to writing a turing machine VM in
the language you use to write descriptions of turing machines, and then
having exec() detect when you're running a compiled turing machine and
handing it off to the turing machine VM ... if it doesn't get passed off
to *something* running on the actual hardware, it's going to loop
forever.

-- 
my $n = 2; print +(split //, 'e,4c3H r ktulrnsJ2tPaeh'
."\n1oa! er")[map $n = ($n * 24 + 30) % 31, (42) x 26]


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Thu Nov  7 04:33:51 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:33:51 +0100
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <m3vg3br5sg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3dc867de$0$24754$7b0f0fd3@reader.news.newnet.co.uk> <aqajfv$qqr$1@news.netpower.no> <918bc22f.0211060732.47b2198d@posting.google.com> <aqbifg$6qd$1@news.hccnet.nl> <918bc22f.0211061829.2d94e681@posting.google.com> <aqco2l$q2f$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <aqdc1t$plg$1@news.netpower.no>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:aqco2l$q2f$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On 6 Nov 2002 18:29:13 -0800, donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter) wrote:
>
> >"Anton Vredegoor" :
> >> To me it isn't that simple. From my perspective
> >> the GPL is using the same kind of "weapons" to
> >> defend it's followers against the "evil"
> >> closed sourcerers.
> >
> >> Using the same kind of weapons as the enemy risks
> >> becoming oneself that what is feared. I think this is
> >> meant by "not resisting evil" and "turning the other
> >> cheek" and such ideas as one can find in the old books.
> >
> >As the OP, I did not intend to start yet another flame war regarding
> >the merits and/or evils of "copyleft". I was merely puzzled by the
> >fact that the Python License is on the list of acceptable licenses one
> >can choose for a SourceForge project, but I couldn't figure out how I
> >could use the PSF License without modification. Martin confirmed the
> >fact that I can't. It appears, then, that a number of developers
> >simply use "Python License" as a well-understood synonym for BSD-style
> >license, which is fine with me. But I figure I might as well say what
> >I mean, so my options are GPL or BSD, the relative merits
> >notwithstanding.
> >
> >Having said this, I see both as valid options in my situation. I am
> >working on two different kinds of projects. The first project is to
> >develop a kind of toolset and notation for building custom clinical
> >applications. I had planned to use the PSF License and now plan to use
> >the BSD license for this project, as I want to encourage its
> >widespread use by not using a restrictive license. I only hope that
> >*some* of its users give me valuable feedback about how to make the
> >toolset better. If other users want to use the toolset for other
> >purposes, I only ask that not hold me liable if it doesn't work as
> >they expected, etc.
> >
> >The other project, however, involves using this toolset/notation to
> >build a set of clinical applications for newborn intensive care. In
>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[1]
> >this case, I truly do want to be restrictive. If others derive
>                     ^^[2]
> >products from this project, I want the derived products to be open
> >source as well. In saying this, I don't view myself as being hateful
> >or vindictive or as fighting evil. I simply want to encourage
> >individuals and companies who build on these applications to give
> >their products back to the pediatric community. So, for the second
> >project, I am strongly inclined toward GPL.
> >
> Your motivations would seem laudable, but when it comes to babies who are
very
> vulnerable to mistakes [1] I would hate to think of, e.g., an IV dosage
> or flow rate accidentally computed with the wrong kind of division.
>
> I would hope that you would concern yourself at least as much about using
> restrictions [2] to ensure that well-meaning but inadequately tested
> "contributions" don't get used by other well-meaning but perhaps not so
> software-QA-issue-aware folks.
>
> I would think also that you are skirting very close to a whole raft of
laws
> meant to protect those under medical care from deficient devices or
procedures,
> and some of those probably override attempts to avoid liability. IANAL,
but
> my guess is you might want to talk to one to get the real scoop.
>
> I.e., there (I hope) must be more of a threshhold to pass before using
> software in the pediatric community than googling and accepting the
> NO WARRANTY conditions, unless it's for games in the waiting room or
> other non-critical uses. But newborn intensive care?? ;-/
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

I would also obtain legal advice before deciding on the licence.  Perhaps
you can make a seperation between the software you write, which could well
be gpl'ed, and the use of the software for pediatric care, which might need
additional legal contracts or disclaimers.  Your software might save the
lives of a hundred babies, but if someone claims it made their baby puke
you'll have lawyers pulling you to shreds.

However, don't be alarmed about using software that disclaims all
warranties - you won't find software anywhere, closed or open, with
warranties covering more than the media they are distributed on.  At least
with open source software you can personally audit the code you use.

Have you considered whether Python is really a suitable language for this
job?  It is probably ideal for your first project, but not necessarily for
the second one.  Python makes it easy to write great software, but it also
makes it easy to make mistakes which can only be found at run-time.  You
might want to consider writing the key working parts of the software in a
language designed with safety and reliability in mind, such as Ada (not C!),
while using Python for the secondary work (user interface, logging results,
or whatever).






From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Nov  7 13:37:35 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 19:37:35 +0100
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <mailman.1036637768.2375.python-list@python.org> <slrnasl805.d1h.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <j4fzudz0nk.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> writes:

> > The answer to your question follows from that.  If you intended a
> > 1 bit followed by 31 zero bits, then, no, -0x7fffffff-1 doesn't
> > mean that on some platforms even today (or even in 1993, for that
> > matter <wink>).
>
> What platforms doesn't it mean that on? What does it mean on those
> platforms? Are you talking about platforms with 16-bit integers?
> If so, I don't care.

64-bit platforms. -0x7fffffff-1 is 33 1 bits, followed by 31 zero
bits, on such systems. In future Python versions, it is an infinite
number of 1 bits followed by 31 zero bits.

Regards,
Martin


From m2 at plusseven.com  Fri Nov 29 22:38:26 2002
From: m2 at plusseven.com (Alex Polite)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 04:38:26 +0100
Subject: sharing data between processes
Message-ID: <20021130033826.GC1369@matijek.plusseven.com>

I need to share data between processes running on the same
machine. One way I can think of is to write a sql backend for my
objects and then have the processes access the same db, but that seems
like overkill for this small project. 

Google tells me that maybe http://pybsddb.sourceforge.net/ could be
used.  Any other ideas, preferably something that's in the standard
library? And don't tell me I should use ZODB or you'll come to regret
it!

alex

-- 
Alex Polite
http://plusseven.com/gpg



From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Mon Nov 25 03:47:47 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:47:47 +0100
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <arqm0r$s6f$1@maud.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <arso1n$pvm$1@news.netpower.no>

"Andr? N?ss" <andre.hates.spam at ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:arqm0r$s6f$1 at maud.ifi.uio.no...
> When I started learning Python one of the things that surprised me was
that
> you couldn't do assignments inside the if clause, e.g.:
>
> if myvar = someFunction():
>
> My question is, what is the rationale for this? Is it a technical issue?
Or
> purely a matter of language design? I'm curious because I'm interested in
> the design og programming languages, not because I want this behavior
> changed in Pyton :)
>
> Thanks.
> Andr? N?ss
>

My guess is that the languages you are most familiar with are C and C++.
The question should not be "why doesn't Python support 'if myvar =
someFunc()'?", but "why *does* C support 'if (myvar = someFunc())' ?"  The
answer is that C was designed with the sole aim of reducing keystrokes for
the programmer, regardless of its effect on program readability and
correctness.  This particular "feature" is a huge source of bugs and
frustration in C programming - mixing up "=" and "==" in conditions is
probably the biggest single cause of C program bugs.  Python, on the other
hand, is designed for improving program readability and correctness, even if
it occasionally (actually seldom in practice) requires more keystrokes.





From gminick at hacker.pl  Mon Nov 25 11:15:10 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:15:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Strange's exception :-)
References: <3DE2453B.9030002@libero.it>
Message-ID: <slrnau50js.bn.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:43:15 GMT, bart napisa?(a):
> Traceback (most recent call last):
[...]
> IOError: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer

> What can I do to manage this exception?
Not your fault. Looks like server you're trying to connect to is down.
All you can do is to handle that exception in some pretty way like:

try:
   ...
except IOError:
   sys.exit("Connection reset by peer.\nTry again later ;)")
  
HTH. 
-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From mike at skew.org  Wed Nov  6 09:56:45 2002
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:56:45 -0700
Subject: regex puzzle
References: <3dc91095$1_1@omega.dimensional.com> <ET9y9.78516$aL4.2423622@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3dc92dad$1_1@omega.dimensional.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:ET9y9.78516$aL4.2423622 at news1.tin.it...
> Mike Brown wrote:
>
> > I need an example of a regular expression that:
> >
> > - matches an empty string
> > - matches a non-empty string
> > - does NOT match a string consisting of only a linefeed
> >
> > So, this test should produce [1, 1, 0]...
> >
> > import re
> > pat = '^(.+)?$' # FIXME
> > [(re.search(pat, s) is not None) for s in ['', 'foo', '\n']]
>
> import re
> pat = r'\A(?!\n\Z)'
> print [(re.search(pat, s) is not None) for s in
>        ['', 'foo', '\n', '\n\n' ]]
>
> The "this test should produce" request can be satisfied without
> the \Z, but I think you mean that '\n\n' should match (as it
> doesn't consist of only a linefeed, but of two of them), and
> for that you do need the \Z in the negative-lookahead assertion.

Thanks! I think this was close enough to what I wanted that I could figure
out the rest. I didn't want \n\n to match, but that's actually taken care of
by the non-empty string clause, as it is a pattern sort of like (.+)? except
instead of .+ it's a pattern a couple thousand characters long. Making it be
(.+)? for the sake of discussion makes it an easier problem to solve. This
seems to give me what I want: r'\A(?!\n)(.+)?\Z'  ... thanks for getting me
on the right track!

I'm not sure I understand the difference between ^$ and \A\Z, but the (?!\n)
makes sense.






From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov 18 17:00:31 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:00:31 +1100
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
In-Reply-To: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <200211190900.31231.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:49, Richard Dillingham wrote:
> Kind of like we have multiple assignments in a line (oldx,oldy=x,y), what
> do you think of the ability to have multiple tests in an if statement with
> only one == or >=.
I think of (oldx, oldy = x,y) as forming a tuple (x,y), and then unpacking it 
to oldx and oldy.

> This would mean that lines like the following:
> if posx>=coords[0] and posy>=coords[1] and posx<=coords[2] and
> posy<=coords[3]:
>
> Could be rewritten like so:
> if posx,posy>=coords[0],coords[1] and posx,posy<=coords[2],coords[3]
I am not sure what it means for a tuple (posx,posy) to be greater than a 
another tuple (coords[0], coords[1]).

What is the result of (posx, posy >= coords[0], coords[1]) for the following 
cases:
For posx> coords[0] and posy>coords[1]? (I assume that this is true)
For posx< coords[0] and posy<coords[1]? (I assume that this is false)
For posx> coords[0] and posy<coords[1]? (Not sure about this)
For posx< coords[0] and posy<coords[1]? (Not sure about this)

I think that X > Y implies Y<X. I'm not clear on how this would work for a 
tuple comparison.

Brad
- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From ELabuschane at gmsonline.co.za  Mon Nov 11 09:04:11 2002
From: ELabuschane at gmsonline.co.za (Etienne Labuschagne)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:04:11 +0200
Subject: p2exe and ZODB
Message-ID: <E1C538E38148D611A3F90040F428459101D173@esrimail>

Hi there,

I am using stand-alone ZODB (Zope Object Database) in a application written
in Python.  The platform I am targeting is Windows 2000 and Windows XP.  So
far I had no luck  py2exe'ing the product with ZODB included.  What I have
done is to exclude ZODB (-e flag for py2exe) and create an install without
the stand-alone ZODB.  I then manually copy the ZODB and all files needed by
it (eg. base64) into the dist created by py2exe.

This works, but I sometimes get (seemingly) random pickling errors when
calling get_transaction().commit() on the ZODB database.  This causes a lot
of havoc as the transaction then also seems to be lost, which is VERY bad!

Anyone had any luck with py2exe and apps using ZODB?

If I can't get this to work, are there any other "python not needed for
install" methods to package my product in?

Regards
Etienne Labuschagne
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From lists at webcrunchers.com  Mon Nov  4 01:27:27 2002
From: lists at webcrunchers.com (John D.)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 22:27:27 -0800
Subject: Is there a good checksum system for OPENBSD?
Message-ID: <v03110708b9ebc25f468a@[192.168.0.2]>

I'm looking for a Program that compares md5 file checksums in a file against actual files and reports discrepancies.   A commercial program like "Tripwire" does this,  but isn't there an Open Source program that can do this.

It would be a good thing to use for files in the /bin directories,  and other places where one would not expect files to be changed,   but would easily identify trojans,  and other changes to executeable files and binaries.

I suppose it wouldn't be that hard to write this in Python or Perl.   But how long would it take to checksum thousands of files?

John





From ccashman at attbi.com  Wed Nov 27 22:38:53 2002
From: ccashman at attbi.com (Colin Cashman)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 03:38:53 GMT
Subject: Skipping EOFs when using file objects?
In-Reply-To: <KefF9.141133$WL3.63739@rwcrnsc54>
References: <KefF9.141133$WL3.63739@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <hdgF9.139641$P31.71622@rwcrnsc53>

> I'm building a decoder for yEnc files, but I'm hitting premature EOF 
> characters (that is, I'm only 300 or 400 bytes into the file, when the 
> file size is around 950 bytes).

It turns out I wasn't opening the file in binary mode. This fixed the 
problem.

I'd like to thank both Jeff Epler and Chad Netzer for emailing me the 
solution. Thanks, guys!

-- 
I am Jack's obfuscated source code.



From joost at joost.org  Tue Nov  5 16:02:22 2002
From: joost at joost.org (Joost van Rooij)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 21:02:22 GMT
Subject: Running PyQt on Win32
Message-ID: <ylWx9.38152$gF2.1406335@nlnews00.chello.com>

Hi,

I would like to develop gui apps for both win32 als linux. I tried using the
wxpython framework but I found it rather slow with Python. Therefore I
looked further and stumbled on PyQt. I would like to develop my apps under
linux but I would like them to run on Win32 as well.

Now my question is what software do I need on a win32 workstation to run
this software (besides Python :)  I don't want to install the qt library on
my a Windows system just for running my Python apps.

Joost




From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Tue Nov 19 20:04:02 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:04:02 GMT
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7?
Message-ID: <6cBC9.1422$Kw6.870449@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

has anyone else found urllib to be slow on FreeBSD?
[freebsd 4.7, python 2.2]

using

>>> f = open('somefile')
>>> u = urllib.urlopen('http://site/index.asp?file=somefile')
>>> f.write(u.read())

to get a 5 meg file takes about 1 to 2 seconds on a 500mhz windows computer
and nearly 2 minutes on a 150mhz freebsd computer.  (redhat 8 on a PII350 is
also fast) both client computers and the server are on the same network.
any ideas?  any other ways to get the file?

(urllib.urlrelrieve doesn't seem to work any better.)

-doug




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov  6 23:58:59 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 04:58:59 GMT
Subject: newbie re question
References: <1osisu81483e4k3j905dun6diio6rt29ao@4ax.com> <sFfy9.2868$h%5.101793@newsb.telia.net> <i63jsu03dv3machun6gufu7kp95h44a3ec@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <aqcruj$dmn$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:52:45 +0000, Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

>On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:17:12 GMT, "Fredrik Lundh"
><fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
>
>>Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
>>
>>> I've been trying to grok re's and settled myself a little exercise:
>>> concoct a re for a Python identifier.
>>>
>>> Now what I got is
>>>
>>> >>> pattern = re.compile(r'(\s|^)([\w_][\w\._]*)(\s|$)')
>>> >>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
>>> [('', 'aadf', ' '), (' ', 'b', ' '), (' ', 'aasa', ' '), (' ', 'aa', '> '), (' ', 'aa_aa', ' ')]
>>>
>>> But as you can see from the results, not all valid identifiers get
>>> caught. For example, why isn't 'cdase' caught?
>>
>>findall returns non-overlapping matches.  there's only a single space
>>between "aadf" and "cdase", and that was used by the first match.
>
>Typical newbie error - forgot that it consumed the next char. And I do
>want all the non overlapping matches.
>
>>
>>here's a better pattern:
>>
>>    pattern = re.compile(r'\b([a-zA-Z_]\w*)\b')
>>
>></F>
>>
>
>OK, I revamped a little your pattern but know I get too many matches,
>e.g.
>
>>>> pattern = re.compile(r'\b([a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z_\.]*)\b')
>>>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
>['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'ad', 'aa', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'a', 'aa', '_aa',
>'_aafr', 'aa_aa', 'aa__a', 'jk']
>
>I want the re to reject 'ad:aa', 'a@', etc. which are not valid
>identifiers. In the first case it returned 'ad' and 'aa' because \b
>matched '@' and I do *not* want that.
>
>I also tried using a not-match-lookahead as in
>
>>>> pattern = re.compile(r'([a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z_\.]*)(?![^a-zA-Z_\.\s])')
>>>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
>['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'a', 'aa', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'aa', '_aa', '_aaf',
>'aa_aa', 'aa__', 'jk']
>
>But as you see, it does not work either. In 'ad:aa' returns the matches
>'a' and 'aa' - and I understand why it does - it just keeps backtracking
>until you get match.
>
>I'm beaten. Can any1 help me out here?
>
Does this do what you want? (I don't know what other characters you are concerned with
besides [:@?])

 >>> pattern = re.compile(r'\b((?<![:@?])[a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z_\.]*(?![:@?]))\b')
 >>> pattern.findall('aadf cdase b ad:aa aasa a.aa a@ aa _aa _aafr@ aa_aa aa__a?jk')
 ['aadf', 'cdase', 'b', 'aasa', 'a.aa', 'aa', '_aa', 'aa_aa']

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From musikintresserad at yahoo.se  Thu Nov 14 14:22:16 2002
From: musikintresserad at yahoo.se (Adam S)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:22:16 +0000
Subject: Python urllib.urlretrieve vs. Perl getstore
Message-ID: <3DD3F7E8.519BC0BF@yahoo.se>

I have a Perl and a Python version of a program designed to fetch
large files (40MB) from a remote HTTP server.

Initial tests indicate that the Perl version, using getstore()
is 3-4 times faster than the Python version. Is there a reason
for this and is there another Python library HTTP file fetch
function I can use? I don't want to use FTP as there
is no anonymous logon for this server.

Best Regards,

Adam


From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov 11 07:50:03 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:50:03 +1100
Subject: referencing disjoint array indexes
In-Reply-To: <DnNz9.11696$cP3.22276@news.iol.ie>
References: <DnNz9.11696$cP3.22276@news.iol.ie>
Message-ID: <200211112350.04157.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

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Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:28, Padraig Brady wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there any way you can do something like
>
> size, mtime = os.stat()[8,6]
I'm still getting the hang of this, but does:
size, ignore, mtime = os.stat("thefile")[6:9]
solve the problem for you?

Brad

- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From BCARR1 at uk.ibm.com  Tue Nov 19 04:26:18 2002
From: BCARR1 at uk.ibm.com (Bronek Carr)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:26:18 -0000
Subject: Simple Encryption
Message-ID: <ard013$obo$1@sp15at20.hursley.ibm.com>

Hi all,

I am trying to write a simple ROT-13 encryption script in python.  A good
starting point would be a function which gets the ascii value of a character
in a string.  I would assume this function already exists in one of the
packages, as it does in every other language I use.  I cannot find it if it
does, can anyone help me.


Thanks in advance

Bronek




From mwh at python.net  Wed Nov 13 06:10:12 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:10:12 GMT
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <7h37kfh20fx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> I hadn't realised it was Latex? Sorry.

Your email address says .uk, but your use of question marks is
bewildering.  Was that really maent to be a question?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
[1] If you're lost in the woods, just bury some fibre in the ground
    carrying data. Fairly soon a JCB will be along to cut it for you
    - follow the JCB back to civilsation/hitch a lift.
                                               -- Simon Burr, cam.misc


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov  7 17:48:26 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 22:48:26 GMT
Subject: how to define the size of a list?
References: <aqeqai$92dk3$1@ID-165840.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <_4Cy9.6277$XO.267683@news2.tin.it>

Marco Herrn wrote:

> Sorry if that is a stupid question, but I didn't find the answer in the
> docu. I want to define a matrix (a 2-dimensional list) with a specific
> size. But I didn't find a way to set the size of the list at creation
> time.
> 
> So how can I do this?

You can create a list of length N in many ways, such as:
    x = N * [0]
    x = [ 0 for i in range(N) ]
    x = range(N)
and so on, depending on what initial contents you want the
length-N list to have.

There are no "two-dimensional" lists in Python proper (and
you don't mention using the Numeric extension, which DOES
have them), so I think you mean a list of lists.  In this
case, take care NOT to use the first form for the outer level,
or that would give you a list containing N copies of the SAME
inner list -- surely not what you want.  I.e., to make a list
of N separate sublists, each sublist made up of N 0's, do:
    x = [ [0]*N for i in range(N) ]


Alex



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Nov 24 12:31:55 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:31:55 -0600
Subject: Regular expression question
In-Reply-To: <3DE0FF2C.1B812B54@erols.com>
References: <9a5f3d1c.0211231857.78125e43@posting.google.com> <mailman.1038109173.3313.python-list@python.org> <3DE0FF2C.1B812B54@erols.com>
Message-ID: <20021124113155.A26075@unpythonic.net>

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 11:32:44AM -0500, walt wrote:
> Sorry, hit the wrong key.
> 
> One small correction to this section:
> 
>                 fname = s.group(1).lower()
>                 try:
>                     f = function_map[fname]     # was [s],  s is match object.
>                 except KeyError:

Thanks.  I screwed this up when I decided it was better to not write
    try:
        f = function_map[s.group(1).lower()]
    ...
but I didn't actually fix the code right.

Jeff



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 23 13:21:52 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 18:21:52 GMT
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org> <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com> <arksfq$bdp$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi> <arm32g$icu$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddf4c89$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <aroh00$g8m$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 02:38:16 -0700, "Mike Brown" <mike at skew.org> wrote:

>"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
>news:arm32g$icu$0 at 216.39.172.122...
>> I don't have a real handy way to duplicate your experiment (not having BSD
>on the other box),
>> but if it's easy for you, I'd be interested in how fast/slow this mod of
>your test runs:
>> (change file an url to taste)
>>
>> =====
>> #!/usr/bin/python
>> # turlread.py
>> [...]
>
>bytes: 4241.5K; time: 9.027s (469 KB/s)
>
Actually, you'll note I wrote an output file as part of the
timed sequence, whereas Jarkko just accumulated the list of
strings and joined them in memory, so my "version" wasn't
really comparable. Sorry, I was jumping ahead ;-/

The better comparison would be to accumulate bytes as he did
but use u.read(16 * 1024) instead of os.read(fn, 16 * 1024)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bilotta78 at hotpop.com  Wed Nov  6 14:27:04 2002
From: bilotta78 at hotpop.com (Giuseppe Bilotta)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:27:04 +0100
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8623B.88753C16@earthlink.net> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <aqbe90$85d$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <aqbimo$a36$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <eSXGjVAjLWy9Eweq@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <MPG.18338b701ef6b0b598acda@News.CIS.DFN.DE>

Robin Becker wrote:
> In article <aqbimo$a36$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>, Frodo Morris 
> .
> .....
> >> The problem that people keep forgetting is that Turing Equivilence
> >> requires indefinite memory. Turing Machines are defined as having
> >> infinite "tapes". Given any finite memory size, I can come up with
> >> an interpreter the emulation of which would not fit in that finite
> >> memory size.
> >Perdantick bast.  :-)
> >Imagine if parrot could understand all currently- and popularly- 
> >implemented interpreted languages.
> >
> which language was it that got kicked to death by the others?
> 

XML, but it wasn't a programming language. And they all kicked to 
death because XML parsing is now considered a MUST for any "sane" 
language.

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

"Da grande lotter? per la pace"
"A me me la compra il mio babbo"
(Altan)
("When I grow up, I will fight for peace"
 "I'll have my daddy buy it for me")


From Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com  Sat Nov  9 19:27:13 2002
From: Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:27:13 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqjr09$qbg$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnasr9v1.267f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>

Carl Banks wrote:

> >> Python uses infix notation for math.  Most humans were brought up to
> >> understand infix.
> > 
> > Because Lisp has a powerful macro system, it is actually possible to
> > have an infix-macro, which lets you use infix-syntax.  And you can
> > write macros to support all sorts of weird syntax, if you want.
>  
>  The kind of person who writes an infix compiler in Lisp is not the
>  type of person who's going to be daunted by all the parentheses.
>  We're talking about the popularity of Lisp, which (as with all
>  languages) is largely determined by people who are not that kind of
>  person.

The person who writes it needn't be the same as the person who
uses it. There already exist things that let you use infix
syntax for mathematics in Lisp; you don't have to write them
for yourself.

I'm not sure anyone actually *uses* them, mind... :-)

-- 
Gareth McCaughan  Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com
.sig under construc


From shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 10 20:31:31 2002
From: shadowlord13_1 at yahoo.com (Richard Dillingham)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:31:31 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7h31y5uyj81.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <slrnasqf9a.mjr.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <qVcz9.25108$6b.985891@news2.east.cox.net> <3DCD6038.7E6EC76B@kolumbus.fi> <TGdz9.25269$6b.996605@news2.east.cox.net> <mailman.1036918274.6065.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TLDz9.33957$6b.1437926@news2.east.cox.net>

The C/C++ "standard" I actually assumed to be standard from the following
facts:
    1) MSVC++ autogenerates code that has {}s placed in the manner which I
called "standard"
    2) Almost all of the open-source C/C++ projects I have looked at have
{}s placed in the manner which I called "standard"
    3) Source code included with MSVC++ 6 has {}s placed in the manner which
I called "standard", and the following is quoted from \MFC\SRC\AFXABORT.CPP
(This file is included with MSVC++ 6):
        // This is a part of the Microsoft Foundation Classes C++ library.
        // Copyright (C) 1992-1998 Microsoft Corporation
        // All rights reserved.
        //
        // This source code is only intended as a supplement to the
        // Microsoft Foundation Classes Reference and related
        // electronic documentation provided with the library.
        // See these sources for detailed information regarding the
        // Microsoft Foundation Classes product.

        #include "stdafx.h"

        #ifdef AFX_AUX_SEG
        #pragma code_seg(AFX_AUX_SEG)
        #endif

        // Note: in separate module so if can be replaced if needed

        void AFXAPI AfxAbort()
        {
            TRACE0("AfxAbort called.\n");

            AfxWinTerm();
            abort();
        }


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/

That was the first file (alphabetically) in that folder (to make it easy for
the rest of you to find), and also quite short. I looked at several random
files in that folder,
all of which had {}s placed in the same manner (on the next line after the
start of a function).

Perhaps it is only a Microsoft standard, but that makes it a fairly
pervasive standard, at least for the Windows world.




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Wed Nov  6 00:35:35 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 06:35:35 +0100
Subject: ** URGENT ** Obtaining global and local dict's for current   interpreter using C API
In-Reply-To: <aqa6pv$ai5$0@216.39.172.122>; from bokr@oz.net on Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 04:45:51AM +0000
References: <mailman.1036536072.25347.python-list@python.org> <aqa6pv$ai5$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20021106063535.V30315@prim.han.de>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:33:21 -0700, quadric at primenet.com wrote:
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> >I am new to Python but an experienced C++ programmer familiar with 
> >scripting etc..... and
> >very excited about Python.  I have successfully embedded/extended it and am 
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> I know that makes it _seem_ "** URGENT **" ... ;-)

I had already hit the 'd' key when i later noticed that this mail 
is from Bengt :-)  Just get too much spam these days.  But i won't
ask what the best anti-spam package is (although i really should :-).

    holger



From anatols at ukr.net  Tue Nov 12 06:20:03 2002
From: anatols at ukr.net (1327055037 Anatol Sukhomlyn)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:20:03 +0200
Subject: Tk extension for python
Message-ID: <aqqo6b$2kps$1@news.ukr.net>

How i can add Tktable extension to python?
I think it is very good package into Tcl/Tk 

Thanks.



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Thu Nov 14 14:38:30 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:38:30 +0000
Subject: Variable names on the fly?
References: <3dd3f5fd$0$28311$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <r9u7tu8csfau7sjrpkbg85ttsjrphsec7t@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:13:22 -0000, "e-tones.co.uk"
<admin at e-tones.co.uk> wrote:

>Hi all, does python allow the creation of variable names on the fly, more
>importantly lists.
>
>I have a stock list containing 5 elements, [0,0,0,0,0]
>
>Lets call it: list

Don't - in your code that is. It will shadow the name of the list
builtin and a sure way to make a mess out of your program.

>
>Now, via a loop, can I create list1, list2, list3 on the fly by replicting
>the original list, eg
>
>i = 1
>for i in range(2)
>    list+i = list
>
>Whats the proper format to concatenate (sp?) variable names. I used list+i,
>obviously this doesnt work, but what does :)

As far as I know you cannot do this - but why would you? Why would you
need such a weird thing? Just use a mapping dictionary

<whatever name you what or more generally a hashable> -> value

For example: calling our dictionary dct (not dict!) and your list lst

for i in range(2):
    dct['list' + str(i)] = lst

With some more info on your problem maybe we can try and give some more
enlightened answer.

>
>Cheers
>Taz
>
>
>
>

With my best regards,
Gon?alo Rodrigues


From berkowit at silcom.com  Fri Nov 29 15:30:53 2002
From: berkowit at silcom.com (Paul Berkowitz)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:30:53 -0800
Subject: Can't find user module despite setting PYTHONPATH
References: <BA0D042F.27479%berkowit@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <BA0D0E7D.2749B%berkowit@silcom.com>

On 11/29/02 11:46 AM, in article BA0D042F.27479%berkowit at silcom.com, "Paul
Berkowitz" <berkowit at silcom.com> wrote:

> It worked, and printenv PYTHONPATH  echoes the same thing back.
> 
> I quit and relaunched the Python Interactive interpreter, and now I no
> longer get a SyntaxError when I call a simple module I saved in my
> ~/Library/Scripts/Python/ directory. Instead I get: an ImportError:
> 
>>>> import module1.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ImportError: No module named module1.py
> 
> 
> But that's not true. It's there - I can see it. I purposely haven't prefixed
> a shebang line to the file, because I'm trying to see how it imports
> modules, not runs scripts. Do I need to? The file script is simply:
> 
> print 'Hello module world!'
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 

OK. I discovered I'm not supposed to include the .py extension. So I removed
it. It still doesn't work:

>>> import module1
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named module1


But it's there, in my ~/Library/Scripts/Python/  directory. There must be
something wrong with my PYTHONPATH?

setenv PYTHONPATH 
.:/usr/lib/python2.2/:/Users/berkowit/Library/Scripts/Python/:/usr/lib/pytho
n2.2/plat-darwin/ # all one line

What?

-- 
Paul Berkowitz



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 25 14:51:02 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 19:51:02 GMT
Subject: using del() to 'unimport'
References: <918bc22f.0211240425.68b8c282@posting.google.com> <20021124100338.29397.00000085@mb-cb.aol.com> <JwrE9.85345$iw.77173@FE06>
Message-ID: <artuv6$4ep$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:43:40 -0500, "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>"TeaAndBikkie" <teaandbikkie at aol.com> wrote ...
>> >From: donnal at donnal.net  (Donnal Walter)
>> >
>> >When the the following module is imported, I want only 'MyClass' (NOT
>> >'Useful' and 'Mixin1') to be publicly accessible.
>> >
>> >======= mymodule.py ==================
>> >from utilities import Useful, Mixin1
>> >
>> >class MyClass(Useful, Mixin1): pass
>> >
>> >del(Useful)
>> >del(Mixin1)
>> >======================================
>>
>> One alternative is not to import the names in the first place, eg.
>>
>> import utilities
>> class MyClass(utilities.Useful, utilities.Mixin1): pass
>>
>> Then you would only have "utilites" in the main namespace.
>>
>
>The implication of the original post is that MyClass is being defined in its
>own module. In that case, wouldn't it make more sense to set the __all__
>attribute in the module to decide which names are imported into the client's
>namespace? From 6.12 in the Reference Manual:
>
>"""
>The public names defined by a module are determined by checking the module's
>namespace for a variable named __all__; if defined, it must be a sequence of
>strings which are names defined or imported by that module. The names given
>in __all__ are all considered public and are required to exist. If __all__
>is not defined, the set of public names includes all names found in the
>module's namespace which do not begin with an underscore character ("_").
>"""
>
>So a simple
>
>    __all__ = (MyClass, )
>
>would seem to answer here.

TypeError: attribute name must be string

     __all__ = ('MyClass', )

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Nov 28 10:35:26 2002
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 16:35:26 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <j60auu0ms3i8e3oihtfold855at9gnglfg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <tyfptspzozl.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch>

Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> writes:

> One of Lisp's _lethal_ failings is that anyone not using Emacs (or
> something like Emacs) is a second class citizen.

... In the same sense that it is a _lethal_ failing of Python, C++,
Befunge, email ... it is a _lethal_ failing of *any* data with a text
representation, that needs to be edited.  <0.5 wink>

The purpose of editors is to ease editing. Those who choose poorer
editors will have a harder time than those who choose better
ones. This is as true in Lisp as it is anywhere else.


From greenbeard at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 20 22:46:51 2002
From: greenbeard at yahoo.com (greenbeard)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:46:51 GMT
Subject: SMTP Relaying 
Message-ID: <3DDC02A5.2090003@yahoo.com>

Hello all,

I am having trouble getting some mail through to certain addresses.  I 
get an SMTPRecipientsRefused {to_address, 550 '5.7.1 
<to_address>...relaying denied.

So I am pretty sure that it is due to the target address blocking the 
relay - my machine -> my SMTP on another machine -> corporate SMTP - as 
most non-corporate address have no problem receiving.  So think I am 
hitting the RFC2505 wall here but I cant quite seem to figure out what 
fields or combination of values to load to let the mail arrive ok.

All advice appreciated.

Thanks,

gb400

REPLY TO: greenbeard400 at yahoo.com



From gminick at hacker.pl  Thu Nov 28 11:58:16 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:58:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: python path
References: <3de63380$0$86565$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <slrnaud07f.tr.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:18:56 +0100, Jonas Geiregat napisa?(a):
> how can add new path's to my sys.path var not with append cause when the 
> programme closes or interpreter it changes again ?
> so save it somewhere ?
There are some solutions in replies. Here you'll find more info about
sys.path etc.: <http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-site.html>.

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Fri Nov  8 14:10:41 2002
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:10:41 +0100
Subject: SGMLParser problem
References: <63170f57.0211080754.4d398296@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqh18j$12ut$1@norfair.nerim.net>

"sanjay" <sanjay2kind at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:
63170f57.0211080754.4d398296 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> Any one has suggestion for following problem. Some word documents
> have been converted to HTML page in Ms-Word. Want to filter html tags
> like..
> <o:p></o:p>,
> <![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]>, etc. I couldn't solve
> using SGMLParser. Shows error like..

I'm not sure that XML namespace notation is compliant with strict SGML.
That's certainly the reason of your exception.
As Martin V.Loewis writes, Tidy makes a pretty good cleanup in the strange
MS-Word HTML and removes all that's not standard HTML4.
Search for it from www.w3.org

--Gilles





From csshi99 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 00:14:10 2002
From: csshi99 at yahoo.com (Mindy)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:14:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how to write this re?
Message-ID: <20021107051410.30117.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey, I want to find strings which includes "string1"
but not includes "string2" in a bunch of strings
called "lines", how can I write this regular
expression in Python?
For "axystring1bdestring2lkj",
"aaastring1bbbccc","aaabbbstring2poi","aaabbbcccddd" I
only want to get the string "aaastring1bbbccc" but my
program got two strings: "axystring1bdestring2lkj" and
"aaastring1bbbccc". So in my regular expression,
(?!string2) didn't work at all. I know I shouldn't
write this,but I really don't know how to express "not
including string2".

My regular expression is like:
r=re.search(r'(.*)string1(.*)(?!string2)(.*)',lines)
if r:
	string1 = r.string

Thanks for any hints!


=====
Cheers
-Mindy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2



From graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk  Wed Nov  6 22:00:45 2002
From: graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk (Frodo Morris)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 03:00:45 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <4f49d232.0211061432.593d46b@posting.google.com>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <usffc087vtip40@corp.supernews.com> <aq8g9u$6c7$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <4f49d232.0211061432.593d46b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqcku8$mlt$3@news.ox.ac.uk>

Laotseu wrote:
> Frodo Morris <graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<aq8g9u$6c7$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>...
> 
>>Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
> 
> (snip some)
> 
> 
>>that's what I call the conducting 
>>machine: "Apple" because it sends Jobs away, does nothing for a while 
>>then gets Jobs back :-) 
> 
> 
> lol :-))))
> 
> (snip some more)
> 
> Laotseu
Glad you approve :-)

-- 
FM



From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Nov  6 16:55:02 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 23:55:02 +0200
Subject: Python Browser Applets
References: <mailman.1036618569.11393.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns92BEF37A9A459cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Terry Hancock <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote in 
news:mailman.1036618569.11393.python-list at python.org:
>     2) Run as an independent Python application. For convenience,
>     this can be configured as a "Helper App" in the browser so it will
>     pop up when needed (Renderer already written -- actually a
>     choice of them, may require AnyGUI/PyUI contribs).

thats probably a good solution. even sun decided to go this way with Java 
Webstart. the "helper app" caches downloaded apps and verifies certificates   
etc. but it basicaly just registered a new mime-type in the browser that is 
started when a config file is downloaded. such a config is an XML with a 
download location for the real app.

so in that case you don't need to write any software that interoperates 
with the browser direcly. it's only started by the browser. it has its own 
configurator where you can setup the HTTP proxy etc. the only problem is 
how to register the mime type. but that's probably much easier to handle 
that writing a plugin.

so for a start we could begin with a simple helper app that parses a config 
file (passed by the browser) and uses urllib to fetch the application and 
then start it.
later there are extending possibilities like certificates, upgradable 
library, config tools...

chris
-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From maney at pobox.com  Sat Nov 23 21:52:50 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 02:52:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <2259b0e2.0211230554.1cde87bb@posting.google.com> <aroklh$9qu$1@wheel2.two14.net> <arp2oq$a8$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <arpeu2$9vo$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> ObJennie: Joel Rosenberg, _D'Shai_

Oh, let's see some new hands for a change...


From obelton at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 26 10:52:22 2002
From: obelton at yahoo.com (Otis Belton)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 07:52:22 -0800
Subject: Database Programming
Message-ID: <3875fcac.0211260752.60e2e457@posting.google.com>

Has anyone used Python to develop a commercial quality database
program? What is the advantage of using Python vs a program like
Foxpro. Any advise is appreciated.


From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 27 14:42:02 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 19:42:02 GMT
Subject: Q: serial port transmit pending count
References: <3de40f51$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net> <3de415a7$0$22175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3de51ad1$1@news.nz.asiaonline.net>
Message-ID: <3de5200a$0$22181$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3de51ad1$1 at news.nz.asiaonline.net>, Colin Brown wrote:

> I was attempting to use file stats but figured that was
> probably not the right way to do it. Termios looked a little
> daunting. In my application I only need a rough count of the
> remaining characters in the queue so that I can keep it topped
> up during periodic checking.

The query tells you how many bytes are buffered, but it doesn't
tell you the size of the buffers. Figuring 4K as a minimum is
probably safe.

The way one usually does that is to configure it for
non-blocking writes, and then periodically just fill it up
using write() calls until write() returns with a count less
than the requested count.

Or you can select() on the file descriptor.  It will become
"writable" when the tx queue count drops below some hard-wired
value (256, IIRC).

Or, just fork off a thread for each port, and use blocking
writes.  I've gotten rather fond of that method lately.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. I must be a
                                  at               VETERINARIAN...
                               visi.com            


From nandrats at mail.mdanderson.org  Tue Nov 26 09:28:29 2002
From: nandrats at mail.mdanderson.org (nandrats at mail.mdanderson.org)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:28:29 -0600
Subject: simple problem with running scripts
Message-ID: <86256C7D.004EC5B1.00@utm-notesob1.mdacc.tmc.edu>


I've the following problem with Win98:

When I open a script with IDLE, it's possible to execute it.But when I open it
in a different environment (like wscite) and try to start it, I always get the
error message:
" pythonw -u xxxxx.py Application not found". I assume that I have to set some
environment variables? I tried to include my python path to PATH in
autoexec.bat, but no luck.

In addition, how do I start a script that needs command line options from
windows 98?

thnx,

NIC





From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov  9 03:11:59 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 08:11:59 GMT
Subject: java bindings
References: <pan.2002.11.08.22.39.41.928710@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <jr3z9.8467$Bs5.289156@news1.tin.it>

netizen wrote:

> Is there a binding for java in python?  I dont mean using jython.
> I want to use some of the thinks the java has like jdbc, ldap.  I know
> they exist in python but i would like to try this method instead.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/jpe


Alex



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Mon Nov 18 09:49:46 2002
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:49:46 +0100
Subject: Tkinter wart: bug or feature?
References: <3dd563db.9499247@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <mailman.1037407464.4609.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-F9EDCF.20084015112002@news.service.uci.edu> <s1tB9.4925$1r1.171057@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <arau4r$42k$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> David Eppstein wrote:
> 
>> ...or do all the ugly bookkeeping necessary to make sure that image1
>> gets deleted when and only when it is no longer needed
> 
> where all the "ugly bookkeeping necessary" is one extra line:
> 
>     lbl = Tkinter.Label(win.window, image=image1)
>     lbl.photo = image1
> 
> which guarantees that the image won't be collected before
> the widget itself.

Can someone please explain me why this cannot be done by the widget itself? 
It seems to me that a line:

if options.get('image') is not None: self.__image = options['image']

at the right place(s) would do the trick. Am I missing something here?

I do agree that it's a "mistake" that anyone will either never do or do 
just once, but considering how many times this issue popped up in c.l.p, 
it's clearly disturbing (I was a victim of it in my early times too ;-)...
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From inyeol.lee at siimage.com  Tue Nov 12 17:12:04 2002
From: inyeol.lee at siimage.com (Inyeol Lee)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:12:04 -0800
Subject: Q: Name of a arbitary variable as a string?
In-Reply-To: <3DD15E18.F5A8905B@ilt.fhg.de>
References: <3DD15E18.F5A8905B@ilt.fhg.de>
Message-ID: <20021112221204.GA13703@siliconimage.com>

This pseudocode partly works. I use similar function which prints
argument name/value pair during debugging.

def var_name(*args):

    # 1. get caller's stack frame with 'sys._getframe(1)'.
    # 2. get current source line with 'frame.f_code.co_filename, frame.lineno
    #    or equivalent.
    # 3. parse source line and get args tuple of 'var_name' call.

This approach has a lot of limitations :-(

1. var_name(var_name(...)) doesn't work.
2. var_name(...); var_name(...) doesn't work.
3. if renamed or referenced with different name, it doesn't work.
4. It is tricky to get a current source if it is a multi-line statement.
   (anybody who knows how to do this, let me know please.)

On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 09:01:28PM +0100, username wrote:
> Hi! 
> 
> Sorry, if this Question was asked a million times!
> 
> I am searching for a function (call it: var_name) that do something like
> this: 
> 
> >>> V="Hello World"
> >>> var_name(V)
> 'V'



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Sun Nov 17 13:00:15 2002
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:00:15 GMT
Subject: python on unix [getting started]
References: <YnGB9.566$Kw6.401397@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <m34ragk3ts.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <POQB9.636$Kw6.474127@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:m34ragk3ts.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...

Thanks for the response

> > In particular, I would like to control mpg123 (i think?).
>
> Depends on what precisely "this" is. In general, on Unix, there is
> nothing like COM. So when you want to use some functionality written
> by somebody else, you have two options:
>
> b) use a library that somebody else has written. In this case, you
> need to find a Python wrapper for the library - which either may
> already exist, or needs to be written.

So perhaps the question is, how does one write a wrapper for using a library
with python? (I see there is a xmms wrapper, but I don't have X installed,
so I assume that that is not an option) again, on win32, it is simple enough
to use either windll or even vb to declare non-COM functions and write COM
wrappers to them.  Where would I look to do this on unix?

> "On Unix", playing mp3 files is not supported. Instead, different Unix
> systems have different ways of playing mp3 files - some do not support
> it at all. So you need to find out what Unix you use (invoke uname for
> that), then you need to contact an appropriate newsgroup dealing with
> that system specifically.

my unix is FreeBSD 4.7. I am comfortable enough with it to install,
configure, etc., just not to program.

> Most likely, mpg123 is available on your system as well.

Indeed as I installed it last night :)




From animeshk at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  4 09:47:36 2002
From: animeshk at yahoo.com (animeshk)
Date: 4 Nov 2002 06:47:36 -0800
Subject: stupid Wing IDE question
Message-ID: <4cce07d5.0211040647.3f479956@posting.google.com>

I'm brand new to Python, and I downloaded and am trying the Wing IDE
(ver 1.1.6, I believe).  I have a stupid question, however.

I put in a simple Python script with a few print statements.  Say:

print "Hello world"
print "Hi there"
print "Whatever"

Now, I run it.  It runs, and then . . . it's done.  Ummmm . . .
shouldn't there be a window somewhere displaying the stuff I told it
to print?  Some kind of "output" window?  Even when I single step
through the program, there doesn't seem to be an "output" window
anywhere (it doesn't even open a console window).

Is this feature available in the Wing IDE?  If so, how do I access it?
 Thanks!


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Nov 25 06:17:42 2002
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:17:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Iteration of strings
References: <DEyD9.31221$HU.2267489@news010.worldonline.dk> <mailman.1038008911.28064.python-list@python.org> <3DE0DDEA.1B87D457@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92D17209D4294duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in 
news:3DE0DDEA.1B87D457 at hotmail.com:

> I suggest the following amendment:
> 
> import types
> 
> def dont_allow_string_argument(v):
>     assert type(v) not in [types.StringType, types.UnicodeType]

Slightly better to write:

def dont_allow_string_argument(v):
    assert type(v) not in types.StringTypes

Of course that still doesn't catch the case where someone subclassed a 
string type. If you are sufficiently paranoid you might consider:

def dont_allow_string_argument(v):
    for t in types.StringTypes:
       assert not isinstance(v, t)


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov 11 04:23:46 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:23:46 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org> <slrnasuojg.l14.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <CGKz9.21091$XO.1011472@news2.tin.it>

Robin Munn wrote:

> Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> I'm certainly amazed at the tolerance people have for questions that are
>> readily answered in a number of on-line tutorials, and in both the Python
>> books that I have (Learning Python and the Python Cookbook). In the end,
>> the friendly attitude may be the killer feature.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you think a response like: "That's covered in the
> Python tutorial -- look at [URL]" will strike a newbie as friendly or
> not? I ask because that's the kind of answer I will tend to write when
> I'm in a hurry. Sometimes I will take the time to phrase the answer in
> my own words, but often I won't want to duplicate the work that someone
> else has already done in writing that tutorial. So if you were a newbie
> getting a curt response like that, would you feel it was a brushoff, or
> would you feel like your question had been answered?

If the URL was a reasonably short page most of which was about
answering my question, I'd feel quite happy.

If the URL was to a large document of which maybe 10%, if that,
is about answering my question, with all of the rest providing
generically-interesting information that doesn't however have to
do with answering my specific question, I'd probably feel I have
been "given a brushoff".


Alex



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 15 08:00:19 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 14:00:19 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas21eb.13s.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <j4d6pqoq4m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnas24im.1go.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C46D565640Ddpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <slrnat1o0m.164.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <Xns92C4D3D8DFF8dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3pttazcay.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnat393f.nc.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de> <Xns92C5CAE6A79F0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3lm3xqh92.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C75515A1912dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44>
Message-ID: <m38yzvm1i4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

DaveP <DaveP at NEARLYdpawson.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> > We are not talking about the big picture here; I happily leave views
> > and architectures to others. What we are talking about is the Python
> > documentation, which has small but precise needs. Being able to
> > represent arbitrary characters is not a requirement at the moment.
> 
> It will be if your thoughts on internationalisation are realised.

In *my* thoughts on internationalization, multi-lingual documents have
no place. Instead, each document has a single language.

Now, it is the case that LaTeX has its own problems with languages
that use large character sets. While I'm not an expert on that, I
believe these problems have been solved, in an acceptable manner.

> > To proof that it can be done, and to smoothen the transition. Many
> > URLs in the world point to specific pages of the documentation at
> > python.org. It is desirable that as few as possible of these URLs
> > break just because the formatting engine changes.
> 
> That's determined by the stylesheets, what the chunks are named.
> Re your challenge, if you output is valid HTML or XHTML, it is
> re-producable using XSLT and XPATH. Flat statement. The proof 
> would be rather hollow, since there is no starting XML?

Maybe you misunderstood. I can certainly create a program that
generates the current HTML documentation - I don't even need any
input. That is not the issue. The issue is to allow modification of
the input, and have the output be the same regardless of what the
processing chain is.

You seem to expect that "chunks are named". This is part of the
challenge: what precisely have to be chunks, and how precisely do I
have to name them to get the same output that I currently get.

I bet that, for the existing tools, *no* input will ever produce the
precise output that we currently get. You will have to modify the
style sheets. It is, by far, not obvious that you can modify the
stylesheets - you may have to rewrite them from scratch.

Until you are done doing so, there is no point in converting the
documentation to XML, since we would not be able to render it as HTML.

Regards,
Martin


From donnal at donnal.net  Sat Nov  9 23:28:49 2002
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 20:28:49 -0800
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <918bc22f.0211051301.2010d077@posting.google.com> <918bc22f.0211061829.2d94e681@posting.google.com> <aqco2l$q2f$0@216.39.172.122> <918bc22f.0211070403.18e19850@posting.google.com> <Tt0z9.2287$Aq5.241565@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <aqikk9$fj$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <918bc22f.0211092028.59e3a4ad@posting.google.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> ...Well, in an open forum there will be people who see both
> flaws and opportunities in blurts like that, and so the entire
> process becomes a kind of genetic algorithm operating to evolve
> and refine ideas.
>

Yes, exactly. A small part of my motivation is to come up with custom
applications that are not available elsewhere, but a greater incentive
is to create applications that can evolve. The software we build today
will necessarily reflect many of our established work processes, but
well-crafted software should help us see ways to improve our work flow
as well, and then the software must evolve to fit the new processes.
The open-source approach fits right into that way of looking at
things.

This is one of the reasons I am enthusiastic about Python. I'm
experienced enough to know that there are no magic solutions, but
Python makes it easier to make incremental changes with extensive
testing than any other environment I have ever used.

Regards,
Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 24 19:07:34 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:07:34 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <arrh93$hkm$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <w4ScnVRwiO4e93ygXTWcpQ@comcast.com>

"Pascal Costanza" <costanza at web.de> wrote in message
news:arrh93$hkm$1 at newsreader2.netcologne.de...
> The most useful terminology I have seen so far is as follows.
>
> * weakly typed vs. strongly typed: all languages define types to a
> certain degree, however some languages allow you to break the type
> system. Weakly typed languages do so, whereas strongly typed
languages
> do not.
>
> * statically typed vs. dynamically typed: some languages enforce
their
> type system at compile time and some do so at run time. (compile
time =
> statically typed, run time = dynamically typed)

There is also name typing (C, for instance) vs. object typing (Python,
for instance).  I think this roughly corresponds to static vs dynamic,
but I don't know enough to say in general.  But I do think that
framing the difference between C and Python this way is at least as
important to understanding as static vs. dynamic.

Terry J. Reedy




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Nov  2 14:50:46 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 02 Nov 2002 20:50:46 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <873cqktmb7.fsf@zamazal.org>
Message-ID: <m3lm4biwdl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Milan Zamazal <pdm at zamazal.org> writes:

> The main problem with LaTeX is it's quite unstructured and AFAIK without
> available general document parser, so unlike reasonable SGML/XML
> documents, you can't convert it into other formats easily.

While this might be true for TeX in general, it is not true for the
Python documentation. This is deliberately restricted to only use
commands for which automatic processing already is available.

Regards,
Martin



From jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com  Tue Nov  5 15:55:50 2002
From: jbublitzNO at SPAMnwinternet.com (Jim)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:55:50 GMT
Subject: pyqt table
References: <3dc7f35b$0$11674@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <3DC82F93.9090603@SPAMnwinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3DC8303C.5030209@SPAMnwinternet.com>

Sorry, the else clause below was mis-indented in the
original post.


Jim wrote:

> Rob Hall wrote:
> 
>> I have created a qt table fine.  I want to be able to colour the 
>> background
>> of individual cells but I cant find a setBackground method fot 
>> QTableItem.
> 
> 
>> How do I colour the background of a cell?
> 
> 
> I haven't done this in quite a while, but it
> looks like you need to subclass QTableItem and
> overload the paint method:
> 
> class CustomTableItem (QTableItem):
>     def __init__ (self, table, et, text):
>         QTableItem.__init__ (self, table, et, text)
> 
>     def paint (self, p, cg, cr, selected):
>         if <some condition, like self.row () ==
>            or something based on cell value>
> 
>             new_cg = <new QColorGroup defined by
>                       your program somehow>
>         else:
>             new_cg = cg  <-- indented
>         ------------------------------
>         QTableItem.paint (self, p, new_cg, cr, selected)
> 
> Each QTableItem holds row/col properties, so you
> can use those to determine the row being painted.
> (see QTableItem.row (), for example)
> 
> See the Qt docs for QTableItem::paint and QColorGroup.
> There's also some example C++ code linked at
> QTableItem.paint in the Qt docs.
> 
> 
> Jim
> 




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov  6 18:11:58 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 00:11:58 +0100
Subject: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
References: <slrnasiph8.pma.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <m3k7jqmgxt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> writes:

> The offending line of code is as follows:
> 
>   data = struct.pack("!I", len(nameval[0]) | 0x80000000)
> 
> As far as I can tell, this change, when it comes in, will make no
> difference at all to the way this code works. Am I right? What am
> I supposed to do to make the warning go away? Rewrite 0x80000000 as
> 0x40000000 * 2 ? ;-)

If you think it makes no difference, add an L to the constant: it will
be a long int when the change is implemented (unless you are using
64-bit systems by then).

Regards,
Martin


From pu at myRealBox.com  Sun Nov  3 12:49:09 2002
From: pu at myRealBox.com (pu)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:49:09 +0100
Subject: Python 2.2.2 on OS/390 V2R10
References: <3dc40ef1_1@news.vo.lu> <us8rhmg4f2iac1@news.supernews.com> <3dc50045_2@news.vo.lu> <usa9i1cbjampc6@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3dc560b5_1@news.vo.lu>

> Also, I believe REXX is availible for all three environments. AFIC, it's
> a typical kludge scripting language, but it does work.

The only open source REXX I know of is Regina, but it sadly lacks the OO
features, and there are not nearly as many libraries available as for
Python. Also, the error handling seems rather poor compared to Python.

And I also have the impression that REXX as a language is stuck in it
evolution, whereas Python is obviously not.
So much for REXX, which I appreciated a lot but which isn't "up to date"
IMHO.

I have heard of ObjectREXX from IBM, but then again it's neither open source
nor has it got such a large (and excellent...) user base.

-Patrick




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Nov 16 16:39:06 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:39:06 +0100
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <ar4rgh$nj2$1@panix3.panix.com> <ar5r65$uq6$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <ar6e2k$g3q$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 16 Nov 2002 16:19:17 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>Is there no way to do a private throwaway import?

You spared me some time by answering the "homework" issue, I thought I
couldn't let that go, because in the internet culture we live in now
using newsgroups to get questions answered or even complete programs
written or found is given some people the same future shock as the
introduction of the calculator did in times long ago.

Speaking of the  future, I have some code for you that's more on topic
for this thread, I am practically sure it has the same problems as the
other solutions proposed, but it might give you some more handles to
work with. At the moment I am not inclined to check this all out for
you (after all its *your* homework :-) but maybe it has some use, if
not just pretend it was never there.

Regards,
		Anton.

from __future__ import generators

def const():
    import math
    pi = math.pi
    del math
    
    def skippi(x):
        return x-int(x/pi)*pi
    
    d = {"skippi" : skippi}
    
    while 1:
        yield d


def test():
    c = const()
    constants = c.next()
    skippi = constants["skippi"]
    print skippi(3.2)


if __name__=='__main__':
    test()



From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov  3 12:21:18 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:21:18 GMT
Subject: Parsing & question about usages off classes!
References: <docx9.172161$Mf5.8344841@Flipper>
Message-ID: <iWcx9.81076$TD1.3676165@news2.tin.it>

Frans wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I want to put each line off a logfile in a different class. But I cant
> seem to, dynamicly, create new classes. I am having problems using
> variables when creating new classes.
> 
> class TEST:
> pass
> 
> x=0
> while x < 10:
> A + "" + x = TEST()
> x=x+1
> 
> Something like that is what I want :)
> 
> Having A1 A2 A3 A4 etc. etc. as TEST classes.

Calling TEST() creates a new instance of the existing class
named TEST.  Of course, you cannot then assign that instance
to a string concatenation (you cannot assign ANYTHING to a
string concatenation), much less one that is invalid in
several ways (name A is not defined, x is an integer and
not a string, and the empty string in-between the attempted
concatenation makes absolutely no sense).

It's thus very hard to guess at what you're doing.

To create a new class, with a name computed dynamically at
runtime, you can use function classobj from module new in
the standard Python library.  That is UTTERLY DIFFERENT from
what you seem to be attempting to be doing in the above
snippet, so I don't know if the "something like that" spec
is even vaguely satisfied thereby.

If by any chance your request for creating new classes
has nothing to do with creating new classes but is rather
about binding dynamically computed names to new instances
of an existing class, my earnest advice is not to do that.
Use dictionaries and lists, NOT variables with dynamically
determined names -- the latter is never a good approach.


> Anyway way to do this ?

Creating new classes is easy, yes.  But what I suspect you
actually may want to do is completely different and utterly
unadvisable.  1 Corintians 6:12.


Alex



From mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Tue Nov  5 02:51:26 2002
From: mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Matthias Huening)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 07:51:26 GMT
Subject: SSH/SCP
References: <Xns92BC9FE0EDD4Fmhueningzedatfuberli@130.133.1.4> <usd6h0f6d8g5b2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92BD5AA90E673mhueningzedatfuberli@130.133.1.4>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in news:usd6h0f6d8g5b2
@corp.supernews.com:

> pyssh <URL: http://pyssh.sourceforge.net/ >

As fas as I this module depends on Putty. 
I would prefer a pure Python solution.

> and the ssh module (twisted.conch) of Twisted
> <URL: http://www.twistedmatrix.com/ >.

I'll have a look at this module.

Thanks, Matthias 


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Nov 19 16:48:09 2002
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:48:09 -0500
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
 <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net>
 <yu998yzqa1q5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
 <2n7cra.j65.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <ZGr29ks/Kb6L089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <2n7cra.j65.ln at beastie.ix.netcom.com>,
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>        But, in a way, it is the COMMA that defines a tuple, not the ()s... We
>recently had a discussion in which it was explained that
>
>a,b = b,a
>
>in essence generates a (b,a) tuple, then unpacks it into the left-side
>a,b

The penny drops!  This is why expressions must not include assignment
operations.

        Thanks.         Mel.


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Mon Nov 25 08:49:38 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 13:49:38 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <VPecnd0fe8Ljg32gXTWcoQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <yfsof8dahe5.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

> There was much discussion about which of dict.iterkeys(), iteritems(),
> or itervalues() should be the default for 'in dict' both for 'if key
> in dict' and 'for key in dict'.  Note that since 'in seq' means same
> sequence in both contexts for other containers (and same underlying
> code is used to get sequence) it was wanted to keep 'in dict' meaning
> same also.  The consensus, considering use cases for both
> constructions, was that keys are most ofter what is wanted.

Thanks for pointing that out. This argument certainly carries weight,
especially given that I can think of no straighforward test for
key-membershipunder the "more unified" scheme using the "in" syntax (e.g. in
dict.keys() is obviously a no-op).

alex


From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Wed Nov 20 22:50:13 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:50:13 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com>


Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:
> 
> 

>>>4. try e.g. modifying constant lists or writing a LOOP with undefined
>>>   behavior, or modifying the (string) keys in a hash-table.
>>
>>So use C++ and you won't shoot yourself in the foot (or get much done either
>><g>)
> 
> 
> What??? C++ and not shooting oneself in the foot? You're surely joking?

Two of the problems looked like C++ const declarations could prevent the 
problem, hence the "not shooting in the foot". Of course with C++ one 
shooys oneself in the head out of boredom waiting for builds.

> Yeah and assembler syntax is also real simple. Of course assembler syntax is
> *always* really simple, unlike say, CL which sports LOOP and FORMAT,
> readtables etc.

That is why I do not use LOOP. Format is indeed its own little world, 
but that does not compromise the straightforwardness of the rest of CL.

> 
> I have always been baffled by CLers praising the accessibility of lisp's
> simple syntax in the same breadth with LOOP and FORMAT (and the syntactic
> malleability of CL thanks to macros and readtables in general) :)

Well the context of the "accessibility" thang was for newcomers, so the 
hairy stuff would not affect them.

Me, I do not find /any/ code readable as natural language, tho it is 
always a goal. I have to slow down anyway because there is so much going 
on in just a line or two.

>>
>>   untyped variables
> 
> 
> Well, maybe assembler (or perl) is really what you're after then :)

don't know perl, but the other side of the coin I did not mention is 
that the data is strongly typed.

> (Maybe I'm
> wrong, but I thought that the "correct" usage is that both CL and python are
> strongly but dynamically typed?).

yes

> Hmm, but what makes you so optimistic that this will happen (it would be nice,
> I have to admit)? I mean, CL has been around for quite some time, without ever
> catching on...

Well, the battle was decided (temporarily?) in favor of static languages 
during the long decades before systems routinely shipped with ghz 
processors and hundreds mb ram. By the time those systems came along, 
almost everyone was using static languages. Folks don't change easily, 
so CL still does not get used widely.

But the language upheaval I see (Java, Python, Perl, Ruby) tells me 
folks are still looking for a better way, and as long as they are 
looking some are bound to find there way to the mother of all 
interactive, dynamic languages.

> I'm certainly willing to concede that CL still has many strong points when
> compared to python, but I think Lispers are too ready to dismiss the fact that
> the reverse is also true, *ignoring* popularity and availability of
> libraries. 

We Lispers are a little dreamy, so pragmatic advantages don't get as 
much credit as they might. But I for one am porting my Cells project:

   http://www.tilton-technology.com/cells_top.html

...to Python /precisely/ (a) to swim in a bigger pond (uh, pond with 
more fish?) and (2) because there is (I hear) a x-platform GUI, TKinter. 
And it's fun learning a new language, recommended so highly by a CL 
worthy such as Norvig.


-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Nov 24 12:51:42 2002
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:51:42 -0500
Subject: a % b == b when a is a very small negative number
In-Reply-To: <uu1uocd4db4be5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIECECPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Lee Harr]
> I have some code which is storing the direction an object
> is moving, and I want to keep that value: 0 <= direction < 2*PI
>
> So I do something like this:
>
> class Directed:
>     def setDirection(self, direction):
>         self.direction = direction % (2*PI)  # PI = math.pi
>
> This works fine until direction is some very very small negative number,
> like -0.1e-16.
>
> With that input, self.direction == 2*PI.

Numerically, that's unfortunately so.  Python guarantees that x%y has the
same sign as y, so Python can't return -1e-16 in this case (its sign differs
from the sign of 2*PI).  So it adds 2*PI to -1e16, and numerically (although
not mathematically) that's exactly equal to 2*PI.

> What I do right now to work around this is take the modulus twice:
>
>     def setDirection(self, direction):
>         self.direction = direction % (2*PI) % (2*PI)  # weird, but works
>
> Though thinking about it now, it might be better to simply
> check for a very small number:
>
>     def setDirection(self, direction):
>         if direction> 0 and direction < 0.00001:
>             self.direction = 0
>         else:
>             self.direction = direction % (2*PI)

Thatwouldn't help your original case, since direction was < 0 there.
Depending on the accuracy requirements of your application, replacing the
guard with

    if abs(direction) < 1e-5:

may be appropriate.

> Is this not a proper use of the % operator?
> Should not a % b always be less than b?

Mathematically, yes.  Numerically, something has to lose:  it's not always
possible for all of these to be true numerically:

1. sign(x%y) == sign(y)
2. abs(x%y) < abs(y)
3. divmod(x, y)[0] * y + x % y is very close to x

Python's % applied to floats preserves #1 and #3 at the expense of #2 in
some cases.  If you want #2 more than #1, use math.fmod instead:

>>> math.fmod(-1e-16, 2*math.pi)
-9.9999999999999998e-017
>>>




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Nov  6 20:53:00 2002
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 01:53:00 +0000
Subject: question on select
Message-ID: <lohjsuc5n97g8guh7jht4e8b4t909rdgeq@4ax.com>

Hi,

I know that select does not work on file objects in the Windows
platform. But does select work on sys.stdin? On the Windows platform,
that is.

TIA,
G. Rodrigues


From kponcin at aerotek.com  Thu Nov 14 18:14:29 2002
From: kponcin at aerotek.com (Kristofer Poncin)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:14:29 -0500
Subject: Python Employment
Message-ID: <3DD42E55.200871CD@aerotek.com>

To whom it may concern:

Hello all, my name is Kris Poncin, I am a DoD recruiter for a company
called Aerotek Engineering.  I am currently helping a client of mine to
fill a position for a Software Test Engineer who can perform testing
using the Python Language.  We have been through numerous candidates who
claim to know Python and/or SW testing and have not been able to
produce.  Anyone who would be interested in this type of work, please do
not hesitate to contact me and I'd be more than happy to discuss it with
you.  I am providing the following description of the position as I
received it directly from the HR representative.

Person of Contact:  Kris M. Poncin, 12801 Fair Lakes Parkway, Suite 150,
Fairfax, Virginia 22033. 703-818-2034 or 800-528-0490 x2034.
kponcin at aerotek.com

Job Title:  Senior SW Test Engineer

Location:  McLean, Virginia

Job Purpose:  Work as a member of software test team to develop and test
real time, embedded software applications.  You will perform tests and
evaluate situations based on established criteria and procedures.

Qualifications:  BS or BA from an accredited university or college,
preferably in engineering, math, physics, or computer science, or an
equivalent combination of education and experience.  7+ years of test
and development experience.

Duties:  Analyze product requirements for testability and develop unit
tests as required.  Develop acceptance test procedures and automated
test scripts.  Run tests, analyze results, and assist with defect
fixes.  Develop and test Python Programs to validate IDM software.

Required/Desired Skills:  Ada95, real time embedded C, C++ or
equivalent, Python Scripting experience, LynxOS, UNIX, Mil. Std. 1553,
HW/SW Integration experience.  MDPTLS a plus (protocol we are using)

Requirements:  All Candidates must be US Citizens.

I want to thank you in advance for your time.  I look forward to hearing
from you.

Respectfully,

Kris M. Poncin

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From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Nov 11 01:51:29 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:51:29 -0500
Subject: Reading code and writing code
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
 <aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
 <3DCD8571.6CACEA04@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <xN1z9kKkXUUA092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote previously:
|The same goes for Lisp (and all its variants, like Scheme).  You might
|have to count parentheses if you had to physically write it down with
|pencil and paper, but in the real world you'll be using an editor, and
|the editor will help you match parentheses and do the gruntwork for you.

This is not the same real world I live in!

In my real world, I probably spend at least 10x as much time READING
code as I do WRITING it.  I certainly read more of my own code than of
anyone elses, but I still have to *read* it when I come back to it after
more than a few minutes... especially when it is a few months or years.

A significant fraction of that reading time is spent looking at pieces
of paper with toner on them; and much of the remaining time uses 'less',
or a webbrowser, or some other non-editor application.  Even in an
editor, I like to look at a page full of code to grok the sense, and
mostly not move the cursor around to cause bracket matches to highlight.

I LIKE the conveniences that good editors provide, including matching
parentheses and other structures.  But the amount of help that this can
possibly provide in my life experience is pretty small.

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov 21 12:38:50 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:38:50 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <874rabdo3t.fsf@key.localdomain> <5r6D9.50977$Yw.2347638@news2.tin.it> <arj417$bro$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <KS8D9.37546$744.1351600@news1.tin.it>

Pascal Costanza wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
>> Macros let you design a different language on top of whatever language
>> you have (that supports full-power macros).  That's my major beef with
>> them, and ultimately the reason I'm not in the Lisp or Dylan communities,
>> as above noticed.  I don't WANT to use a language that lets me redesign
>> it -- worse, I most definitely don't want to use a language that lets
>> _others_ redesign it, and find myself stuck using and supporting half
>> a dozen different (and mostly badly designed) languages in as many
>> disparate projects.
> 
> How is using a badly designed language worse than using a badly designed
> API? Just don't use them!

That may not be an option -- if you want to cooperate with other people
on a project you need to reach a consensus on the underlying technologies
that are going to be used, whether that cooperation be for monetary gain
or whatever.  Warts in the language can hurt much more than warts in an
API.  Macros let people add warts to a language: good language designers
are few and far between, but macros make everybody into a language
designer, and not all people understand or acknowledge their limitations
in this regard (indeed, far from it: browse this newsgroup's archives
and see how many bad language-changes [mostly additions] are being
requested continuously).

Indeed, macros apart, that's reason number one I prefer Python to Ruby:
Ruby is slightly more flexible in ways that let everybody change some
fundamental mechanisms of the language and build novel and "interesting"
control structures.  With Python (as with most other languages), the
language is bedrock: you're stuck with however it was designed.  I
happen to think it's quite well designed (or I wouldn't be using it,
as it's very much by choice that I am) but I could say the same of
Ruby (the two languages are so close in niches they target and in
expressive power that you have to use a high magnification setting
to tell them apart;-).  But if I were consulting or cooperating on a
Ruby project I would have each and every time to check how this specific
group has changed or enriched the language, spend time and energy in
political battles about which of their "enhancements" can be rolled
back, etc, etc -- have they changed fundamental methods of every
object, or of strings, etc, have they used unnamed code blocks and
Ruby 'iterators' to design weird control structures, and so on.  With
Python, there is none of that -- we can take the language itself for
granted and spend all of our time and energy on higher-level issues.

I like the language to be bedrock.  I'm an engineer, I want to build
useful structures, a solid unchanging base is a good start.  Sure, one
can still build rickety and badly-designed structures on top of even
the best possible bedrock -- that in no way detracts from the usefulness
of such a solid base.

In a peculiar way this ties in to the "batteries included" idea too --
it's why having good and varied standard libraries with the language
matters so much, even though it would be almost as easy to get the
libraries off the net and add them separately.  The vast standard
library provides a shared base, standard acknowledged technology to
be taken as the starting point, and thus saves LOTS of wasted energy
and time in debates about "how should we be doing this, that, the
other".  So one can focus on a few specific issues important to a
given project where one strongly feels that alternatives to the
standard library are crucial -- on one project it may be Qt rather
than Tk, on another, Twisted rather than asyncore, etc.  But, this
is really an aside from the discussion on language features.


> But maybe I am missing something here?!? Could you elaborate more on that?

I think that part of our different viewpoints boils down to the
difference between research in programming and languages (your
field, I believe) and production programming and consulting (mine).
As I said, was research still my job (as it was through the '80s), and 
programming its focus rather than just a tool (as it wasn't even then:
the focus was on such issues as natural language recognition, etc), I
think my feelings might well be different.


Alex



From admin at hardyards.info  Thu Nov 28 08:41:13 2002
From: admin at hardyards.info (HardYards)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 05:41:13 -0800
Subject: Python windows kit tcl version conflict
Message-ID: <5633113f.0211280541.637df6fd@posting.google.com>

I have just installed tcl 8.4 from scratch - have never used it before
and also installed python (I am trying  to use VTK and Mayavi) and
have found that IDLE won't run.

It is coming up with the - apparently common - tcl error 

TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories:
    D:/Tcl/lib/tcl8.4 {} D:/Tcl/lib/tcl8.4 D:/Tcl/lib/tcl8.3
D:/Python22/lib
8.3 D:/lib/tcl8.3 lib/tcl8.3 lib/tcl8.3/library library
../tcl8.3/library.

The trouble is I have never had tcl 8.3....

Anyway after searching the system for anything with an 8.3 in it's
name and I have found that python installs some tcl 8.3 libs (In the
windows installer release).

I have tried renaming these so they can't be found. adjusting
TCL_LIBRARY etc etc. But I am getting  the same error.

Where is it picking up the 8.3 bit from and how do I get python to use
the installed tcl libraries.

Totally stumped....


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Nov  7 15:35:35 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:35:35 +0100
Subject: using the PSF license for one's code
References: <mailman.1036682796.1417.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqeisp$mdn$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:21:30 -0600, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

>"Please Don't Stop Not Trying Not To Not Start A Flame War"

Ok. I was trying to explain that overdoing things might result in the
opposite outcome. Also I had planned to quote an entirely different
part of the corintians. It must have been an act of god that prevented
me from doing that.

All this is giving me a headache so I'd better quit.

Regards,

AV.

reading Douglas Adams will get you into trouble.


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sun Nov 24 18:57:54 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 23:57:54 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBD838.10406@nyc.rr.com> <yfs3cpvvjpq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDC5851.5060001@nyc.rr.com> <yfsadk0c648.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <arrh93$hkm$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <yfshee6bjwd.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Pascal Costanza <costanza at web.de> writes:

> 
> [...]
> 
> > python: CL: x = list[index] (elt arrayOrList index)
> 
> >  x = hash[key]                     (gethash key  hash) ;; *why* this arg-order?
> >  x = myType[indexOrKey]            ; no generalized item access
> >                                                                                    
> 
> [etc.]
> 
> Unified access is always a bit problematic. You should not access a list 
>   (in Common Lisp) by index because the list must always be traversed up 
> to the index on each access. (As far as I understand, what Python calls 

Of course you usually don't but then I can't see why this is an argument
against unified access (I don't want to abolish car and cdr and the writing of
nice recursive functions that manipulate lists with them). And anyway, as you
know, you can already access lists in CL by index if you want (and abuse it to
write really slow code, if you're incompetent; but sometimes its clearly the
right thing to do):

  (elt '(1 2 3 4) 2) => 3

Also often you just want to iterate over all the items in some container and I
can't really see how not having a good mechanism to this can be a good
thing. Why should I always need to tell LOOP that I want to iterate over a
vector and not a list?

  (loop for i in list) 

as opposed to 

  (loop for i across vector)

why not just:

  (loop for i in container)

If one is worried about the overhead for typechecking, one could always
optionally declare the type of the container, e.g.:

  (loop for i in (the list list))


> lists are in fact arrays, and arrays don't have that problem.)

Yes, I think python lists correspond best to resizable arrays in CL.

> (And you don't want to generally replace lists by arrays, because arrays 
> have their respective disadvantages as well.)

No of course you don't. But you do sometimes want to replace lists with arrays
or arrays with hashes or some more specialized container type after you've
already written some code, because the requirements and thus trade-offs
changed. In python it is then often easy to change the underlying container
type, in CL it isn't which presumably means that much code will not be
rewritten and that especially lists get overused. And then of course sometimes
you just want to write code that doesn't care about what exact container type
it receives to start with.

alex


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Nov 24 15:20:28 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:20:28 -0500
Subject: using del() to 'unimport'
References: <918bc22f.0211240425.68b8c282@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <EeCcneHtmNLUqHygXTWc3A@comcast.com>

"Donnal Walter" <donnal at donnal.net> wrote in message
news:918bc22f.0211240425.68b8c282 at posting.google.com...
> When the the following module is imported, I want only 'MyClass'
(NOT
> 'Useful' and 'Mixin1') to be publicly accessible.
>
> ======= mymodule.py ==================
> from utilities import Useful, Mixin1
>
> class MyClass(Useful, Mixin1): pass
> ======================================
>
>
> So my question is this: Is it an acceptable Python idiom to use
del()
> at the end of a module to remove previously imported names from the
> global namespace as shown below? Is there a better alternative?
>
> ======= mymodule.py ==================
> from utilities import Useful, Mixin1
>
> class MyClass(Useful, Mixin1): pass
>
> del(Useful)
> del(Mixin1)
> ======================================

I should think it a good idea to clean the module namespace of
everything not needed to be kept or exported.  Something that needs to
be kept but not exported should be given an _xxx name to block export.
For imported modules, use 'as', as in
from utilities import Useful as _Useful

You can instead use __all__ to control name export (see RefMan 6.12).

Terry J. Reedy





From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Nov  4 20:00:41 2002
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 18:00:41 -0700
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org>
Message-ID: <3DC71839.80400@mindspring.com>

Daniel Pfeiffer wrote:
 > this morning it struck me that it would be nice to have Parrot not
 > only run Perl 6 and similar byte code, but that any of the common
 > interpreted languages be compiled to this same byte code.

As others have written, still others have tried, including Andrew
Kuchling for Python.  Two of his comments discribing the problems in
doing so are

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=slrna74vlu.kkq.akuchlin%40dust.mems-exchange.org&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=E17mdDp-0003xw-00%40ute.mems-exchange.org&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

					Andrew
					dalke at dalkscientific.com



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Nov  7 12:30:53 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:30:53 -0600
Subject: Times and dates
In-Reply-To: <ocxy9.4560$XO.165733@news2.tin.it>
References: <aqe176$r9t$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
        <aqe343$9kd$1@news.schlund.de>
        <aqe3lq$sqt$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
        <ocxy9.4560$XO.165733@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <15818.41805.194996.526485@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >>> strptime() may be your friend if your platform supports it:
    >> Unfortunately i have to deal with windows...
    Alex> Then look for a portable strptime implemented in Python itself,
    Alex> such as Brett Cannon's at
    Alex> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/56036 .

An updated version is available from Python CVS and will be part of 2.3.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Nov  4 11:49:49 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 08:49:49 -0800
Subject: old SimpleXMLRPCLib classes
In-Reply-To: <slrnasd5u7.sa5.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>
Message-ID: <001501c28422$30c11570$21795418@dell1700>

> This is the xmlrpc server support module I use; it is based on code
> from SimpleXMLRPCServer and scripts by F. Lundh and E. Kidd.  It
> supports the standard system methods, and works with CGI and SkunkWeb:

...

That's cool code. I wonder why system.listMethods is missing.

I'm also not sure what system.methodSignature is doing since it seems
unimplementable in Python due to the lack of type information.
Bookmarking it for later investigation.

Cheers,
Brian




From trentm at ActiveState.com  Tue Nov 12 17:21:48 2002
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:21:48 -0800
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.11.12.20.44.22.748716@battleface.com>; from lists@battleface.com on Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 09:35:18PM +0000
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com> <m2n0oeo5bq.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <pan.2002.11.12.20.44.22.748716@battleface.com>
Message-ID: <20021112142148.A7181@ActiveState.com>

> On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:18:01 +0000, John Hunter wrote:
> > That's what I usually end up doing
> > 
> > for line in myfile:
> >   m = r1.match(line)
> >   if m:
> >     do_something()
> >     break
> > 
> >   m = r2.match(line)
> >   if m:
> >     do_something_else()
> >     break
> >   
> > 

[Alexander Sendzimir wrote]
> Thanks for your response. This is what I was afraid of. This seems really
> sloppy. You don't think there is any better way of doing such a thing? In
> the mean time, what you propose is exactly what I've been doing. Hmmmm.

A slight mod on John's code makes it seem pretty clean to me:

patterns = [re.compile('...'),
            re.compile('...')]

    for line in myfile:
        for pattern in patterns:
            match = pattern.match(line)
            if match:
                // do something with 'match'
                break
        else:
            raise "none of the patterns matched"

This scales well for adding more patterns. I usually use named groups in
my Python regexs so the single "do something" block for matching any of
the patterns works itself out.


> ... because I haven't been able to get
> Python to make an assignment in an if-statement. In other words,
> 
> if ( myMatch = re1.match( line ) ) :
>     ...
> elif ( myMatch = re2.match( line ) ) :
>     ...
> 
> doesn't work for me. Perhaps I've missed something simple.

No, you didn't miss anything. You cannot use assignment in the test part
of a Python if-statement.


Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From nomad*** at ***freemail.absa.co.za  Mon Nov 25 15:28:01 2002
From: nomad*** at ***freemail.absa.co.za (Nomad)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:28:01 +0200
Subject: Gnuplot on Windows
References: <mailman.1037957730.11804.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8gv1uu0ph0rhekgm2tf3orpg6jvh9n6u2a@4ax.com>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:33:50 +0000, "Paul Simmonds"
<psimmo60 at hotmail.com> wrote:

><snip>
>> >    self.write(s + '\n')
>> >IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument
>> >>>># Working through the hierarchy gives me
>> >>>>a.gnuplot.gnuplot
>> ><open file 'f:\simmonds\gnuplot\pgnuplot.exe', mode 'w' at 0x00792CE8>
>>                                           ^^^        ^^^
>>Why would a .exe file be opened with mode 'w'?? Or at all?
>>
>>Creating or modifying exe's on the fly could be not so nice for your system 
>>;-/
>>
>>I would want to check that out carefully.
>>
></snip>
>
>Thanks Bengt,
>
>I think this is the time to admit that I really don't know how you'd 
>simulate stdin/out streams on Windows. This pgnuplot program is a console 
>mode program supposed to take input from a file stream, and relay it to a 
>wrapped wgnuplot GUI window.

have you looked at the popen's?

>I used this program hoping it would be a quick and easy solution for my 
>Windows port problems. However, looking at the code, the last change to 
>pgnuplot was in '99, and we're running this software on 2000 now. Does 
>anyone know if the API's moved on so that a recode is in order? I've got a 
>big book on Windows API C programming, but I was hoping to avoid it as long 
>as possible...the business end of the wrap is done using PostMessage.
>
>Is there a better way to do this?
>
>Thanks,
>Paul
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* 
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>

-- 
Nomad

Wondering of the vast emptyness of the 'net
in search of something cool.


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Nov 15 16:19:51 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:19:51 +0000
Subject: wrapping all class methods
References: <TKNFFLAXBO19Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <ar3mf5$qii$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <GSVADVA3TW19EwlS@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

.
......
>> ie the traceback seems to get stuck in the wrapper method. What's
>> the 'proper' pythonic way to do this kind of global wrapping?
>
>Metaclasses.  What else?  :-) Ok, it looks like you want to do this on
>the fly, and I don't think you can set a class's type after it's been
>defined.  (Maybe you can assign to it's __class__ attribute, but I
>recall that assigning to __class__ is being phased out.)
>
>
..... yes well we're not all into the bleeding edge, the real problem is
that tracebacks don't continue back above the catch point.

Providing the linenos etc have been set up you can simulate a traceback
beyond that, but there are many places where C python doesn't fix up the
frame properly (eg import module) so it may not be possible to do what I
want.

My previous post based on the aspect thread seems to do what I want
modulo the incomplete traceback info.
-- 
Robin Becker


From anonymous at nodomain.none  Fri Nov 29 01:40:37 2002
From: anonymous at nodomain.none (Tetsuo)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 06:40:37 GMT
Subject: mod_python
Message-ID: <Xns92D510D3250B7bokuwatetsuo@207.217.77.26>

I figured out how to get mod_python to work, at last, but I ran into a 
problem that seems to be fairly common (the solution is harder to find, 
though). Any code inserted into mptest.py works great. But when I make 
another file in the same directory, the last thing that was in mptest goes 
into that file, even if mptest doesn't exist any more. Must be browser 
cache or something... Well, I have no idea, since it's a different file. 
Does Apache have a cache, too? I have heard that some mistake in the 
configuration can make Apache keep referring to mptest. But I can't find 
how to fix it...


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Nov 18 22:38:48 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:38:48 -0600
Subject: Tkinter~about: 2 questions
In-Reply-To: <d9531d76.0211181925.7a1b9412@posting.google.com>
References: <d9531d76.0211181925.7a1b9412@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20021118213847.A4361@unpythonic.net>

You can remove the "maximize" button (depending on window manager) of
toplevel t by executing t.wm_resizable(0,0) but this also prevents you
(as the name implies) from resizing the window.  I'm not sure how to
remove the "minimize" button.  However, t.wm_overrideredirect(1) should
give you a window with no standard decorations (no titlebar or border)

Changing the icon is presumably related to the wm_iconbitmap method.

       wm iconbitmap window ?bitmap?
              If bitmap is specified, then it names a  bitmap  in
              the  standard forms accepted by Tk (see the Tk_Get?
              Bitmap manual entry for details).  This  bitmap  is
              passed  to  the  window  manager to be displayed in
              window's icon, and the  command  returns  an  empty
              string.   If  an  empty  string  is  specified  for
              bitmap, then any current icon bitmap  is  cancelled
              for  window.   If bitmap is specified then the com?
              mand returns an empty string.  Otherwise it returns
              the name of the current icon bitmap associated with
              window, or an empty string if window  has  no  icon
              bitmap.   On the Windows operating system, an addi?
              tional flag  is  supported:  wm  iconbitmap  window
              ?-default? ?image?.  If the -default flag is given,
              the icon is applied to all toplevel windows (exist?
              ing and future) to which no other specific icon has
              yet been applied.   In  addition  to  bitmap  image
              types,  a full path specification to any file which
              contains a valid  Windows  icon  is  also  accepted
              (usually .ico or .icr files), or any file for which
              the shell has assigned an  icon.   Tcl  will  first
              test  if  the file contains an icon, then if it has
              an assigned icon, and finally, if that fails,  test
              for a bitmap.

(translation to Tkinter: t.wm_iconbitmap("blah"))

I don't know what Vpython is, so I can't answer that question.

Jeff



From graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk  Tue Nov  5 09:43:07 2002
From: graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk (Frodo Morris)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:43:07 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <usfibjb72aq0d7@corp.supernews.com>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <usffc087vtip40@corp.supernews.com> <aq8g9u$6c7$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <usfibjb72aq0d7@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <aq8lb1$8mq$1@news.ox.ac.uk>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <aq8g9u$6c7$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>, Frodo Morris  <""> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> 
>>How cool would it be to just set up a computer with a listening parrotd 
>>and DHCP client, plug it in to the Beowulf and have it automagically 
>>recognised as a node and delegated tasks?
>>I have been thinking quite a bit about cross-platform Beowulfing 
>>recently.  My initial idea was to set up an rlogin or something on the 
>>node machines, and have the Apple (that's what I call the conducting 
>>machine: "Apple" because it sends Jobs away, does nothing for a while 
>>then gets Jobs back :-) distribute the source code for the node service 
>>and job processor, configure and build the code, then log out and use 
>>the new node as normal.  This would be faster (provided the building 
>>didn't fall over) as Beowulfs go, but less secure and probably harder to 
>>set up.
> 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> Work on such schemes is already underway.
> 
> Security is a *hard* problem.

Curses!  You stole my idea :-)  I see what you mean about security being 
a problem...
-- 
FM



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Nov  5 16:38:55 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:38:55 -0800
Subject: How to create a unary operator?
References: <H5471x.EyL@news.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <3DC83A6F.74B69BF@alcyone.com>

Joe Sixpack wrote:

> Is it possible to create a unary operator on a class object by
> redefining an
> existing operator symbol?  If so, how?

Sorry, no.  In Python you can overload operators, but only preexisting
ones in the way they already work.  You could override unary negation,
for instance, but you can't make bitwise xor act as a unary operator or
introduce a brand new binary operator like @.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ It is one thing to praise discipline, and another to submit to it.
\__/ Cervantes
    Rules for Buh / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh.html
 The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.


From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Nov 13 18:32:47 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:32:47 GMT
Subject: How do I reply to an item in the list ?
References: <44ee1dc2.0211120501.2c9e3215@posting.google.com> <egorqa.sq3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <44ee1dc2.0211130013.b9e5a30@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnat5oha.q3o.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM <Patrick.Carabin at MyRealBox.COM> wrote:
> Dear Dennis,
> 
>>         Oh, main thing I notice is that there are no /references/ in your 
>> header, which means that it is considered the start of a thread...
> 
>  would You like to explain a bit more about that /references/ , 
> - what it should be
> - where it should be
> 
> so i can try to ?reply? without breaking the thread ? The ?Post a
> follow-up to this message? in Google did NOT place it, so i assume i
> MUST do it manually...

What he is referring to is the References: header, which is used by both
mail clients and newsgroup clients to track a thread. To see what I'm
talking about, pick any discussion thread with more than one reply.
Click on "View this article only" for the original message (the one that
started the thread), then click on "Original format". Note the
Message-ID: header. Now go back to thread view, pick one of the replies,
and click on "Original format". Note how the Message-ID from the
original post shows up in the References: header of this post. That is
what newsgroup-reading software (including Google Groups) uses to track
which message is in response to which other message in a thread.

If you want to know all about it in exhaustive detail, look at:

    http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1036.html

and search for the word "References".

By the way, the post that I'm replying to seems to have had its
References: header inserted correctly. Also, as someone else mentioned,
please make your test postings to alt.test so as not to clutter up this
newsgroup with irrelevant messages. Thanks!

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Nov  9 20:06:01 2002
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:06:01 -0500
Subject: Determining Presence Of GUI Support
References: <42aiqa.jp82.ln@boundary.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <usrbs34a9ted43@news.supernews.com>

"Tim Daneliuk" <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote in message
news:42aiqa.jp82.ln at boundary.tundraware.com...
> Is there a portable method of determining whether the current runtime
> environment supports a GUI or text-based interface?  I would like to
> write a single program which autosenses the presentation environment
> and works accordingly.

Look at the code Anygui uses to determine which graphics library
is installed. www.anygui.org.
It's basically a try/except structure. The package is currently
struggling
to get its 0.2 release out...

John Roth
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> Tim Daneliuk
> tundra at tundraware.com


>




From lvirden at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 08:30:02 2002
From: lvirden at yahoo.com (lvirden at yahoo.com)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 13:30:02 GMT
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aqa2oa$8o1$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <3DC8CDDD.7050103@mindspring.com> <slrnasilb1.201.akuchlin@ute.mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <aqdpsq$5ur$4@srv38.cas.org>

According to A.M. Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org>:
:    Guile programmers?  If they're Guile programmers, they must like 
:    programming in Scheme.  Why would they work on translators for languages
:    they'll never use?

Perhaps a parallel example are the Java implementations of Python and
Tcl - these were written by Java programmers interested in having the
facilities of python / tcl in their java applications.

Perhaps Guile programmers never saw a need for the facilities of perl/tcl/
python.

-- 
Tcl - The glue of a new generation.  <URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/ >
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
<URL: mailto:lvirden at yahoo.com > <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/ >


From kevin at cazabon.com  Wed Nov 13 19:18:22 2002
From: kevin at cazabon.com (Kevin@Cazabon.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:18:22 GMT
Subject: TclError: bad option "<whatever>": must be cget or configure
References: <lp%y9.15549$O71.6983@rwcrnsc53> <aqrlor$23v8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <iZBA9.3489$Rp.702@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

Thanks Russell... I'll definately try the dictionary method you mention, I
didn't know that would work (I've always used configure as per "the
manual"...).

If that fails, I'll see if I can put some tracing into Tkinter or something
to see just exactly what it's TRYING to call.  As much as I'm convinced it's
a Tkinter bug (or possibly a Tcl bug), I'm always happy to be wrong if it
solves my problem!  q:]

Much appreciated, I'll keep you posted

Kevin.


"Russell E. Owen" <owen at nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:aqrlor$23v8$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...
> This sounds nasty.
>
> I ran Wish to see if I could figure out what makes your error, and it's
> acting as if both "config" and the name of the option to be configured
> are missing:
> frame .g
> .g config -bg "red";  # correct
> .g config "red"; # wrong
> unkonwn option "red"
> .g "red";  # wrong
> bad option "red": must be cget or configure
>
> I was not able to find an equivalent Tkinter command to produce this
> error message, but I don't claim to have tried everything. For instance:
> f = Frame()
> f.yellow()
> AttributeError: Frame instance has no attribute 'yellow'
> f["yellow"]
> TclError: unknown option "-yellow"
>
> Can you test the hypothesis that it's thread-related? Can you produce a
> short program that exhibits the problem that others can try?
>
> Also, as sort of voodoo, you might try replacing your use of configure
> with the dictionary approach, e.g. frame["bg"] = "yellow", to see if
> this helps or changes the error message to something more useful.
>
> -- Russell
>
> In article <lp%y9.15549$O71.6983 at rwcrnsc53>,
>  "Kevin at Cazabon.com" <kevin at cazabon.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm having some weird Tcl errors, and can't seem to track them down, any
> >help?
> >
> >1)  these are happening in multiple locations, when I use the "configure"
> >method for widgets
> >
> >2)  the calls work 99.9% of the time, but when the system is under heavy
> >load they fail with "TclError: bad option "yellow": must be cget or
> >configure" errors
> >
> >3)  I'm using a valid "configure" command (such as
> >self.label.configure(text="yellow")), and it seems to think I called
> >"self.frame.yellow()" or self.frame.configure(yellow = xxx).
> >
> >
> >My application is multi-threaded (3 threads total, all using
locks/mutexes
> >on shared objects, only one thread is doing Tcl stuff), and I'm using
> >ActivePython 2.2.1 build 222.




From colin at moonbase.gungeralv.org  Thu Nov  7 17:40:13 2002
From: colin at moonbase.gungeralv.org (colin roald)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 22:40:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: getting HTML DOM events via win32com
Message-ID: <aqeq4d$jht$1@moonbase.gungeralv.org>

I am trying to puzzle out the win32com interface, specifically as a 
means to automate Internet Explorer.

I have been able at various points to get win32com.client.Dispatch
and DispatchWithEvents to work as advertised.  My current problem
has to do with connecting to HTML DOM events, ie, through 
HTMLDocumentEvents2.

The following code is derived with some modification from a sample
posted by Alex Martelli in December 2000
(http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&threadm=91t2mf02dob%40news2.newsguy.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DHTMLDocumentEvents2%2Bpython%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3Dutf-8%26selm%3D91t2mf02dob%2540news2.newsguy.com%26rnum%3D1).
It is supposed to trap onclick events from the document.  (Code follows.)

On Monday it worked.  Today it is not working.  I do not know why.
It doesn't throw any errors -- it just doesn't receive any events.

Questions:

(1.)  Is there any documentation, anywhere, that explains exactly how
      the events describe at 
      http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/browser/mshtml/reference/events/htmldocumentevents2/htmldocumentevents2.asp
      are translated into Python methods?  How do I know what name and
      signature I'm supposed to give my handler method (Ononclick?)?
      What *are* its arguments, anyway?

(2.) Is it possible that I haven't Ensured Module for the right classes?
     How would I be able to tell what's missing?  (No errors are
     thrown.)  I am hopelessly confused trying to sort out the functions
     of all the Modules and CoClasses and Interfaces and TypeLibs.  The
     first four lines of EnsureModuleForTypelibOfObject contains an
     obscure series of multiple indirections I can't quite puzzle out --
     where is this stuff documented?

(3.) gen_py/HTMLDocumentEvents2.py contains an 'onclick' method already,
     but it's body ('return self._oleobj_.InvokeTypes(0xfffffda8, LCID,
     1, (11, 0), ((9, 1),),pEvtObj)') is too obscure for me to decipher.
     what does it do?  Am I *supposed* to override it, or supposed to 
     *not* override it?

Thanks for any help you can give me.  Much appreciated!


# ---- begin code ------------------------------------------------------

# testing trapping HTML DOM events

import sys, win32com.client.gencache, pythoncom, win32com.client
import time
from pywin.tools import browser

seen = 0

def EnsureModuleForTypelibOfObject(obj, bForDemand=1):
    try:
        typeinfo = obj._oleobj_.GetTypeInfo()
        clsid = typeinfo.GetTypeAttr()[0]
        typelib, index = typeinfo.GetContainingTypeLib()
        typelib_attr = typelib.GetLibAttr()
        # EnsureModule(typelibCLSID, lcid, major, minor,
	progressInstance=None, bValidateFile=1, bForDemand=0,
	bBuildHidden=1)
        return win32com.client.gencache.EnsureModule(
            typelib_attr[0], typelib_attr[1], typelib_attr[3],
            typelib_attr[4], bForDemand=bForDemand)
    except pythoncom.com_error:
            raise TypeError, "This COM object can not automate the
	    makepy process - please run makepy manually for this object"

ie =
win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch("InternetExplorer.Application")
ie.Navigate('http://www.google.com/')
ie.Visible=1

while not (hasattr(ie, 'Document')): time.sleep(0.1)
html_module = EnsureModuleForTypelibOfObject(ie.Document)
print 'html_module = ',html_module
HTMLDocumentEvents2Class = win32com.client.gencache.GetClassForCLSID(
    '{3050F613-98B5-11CF-BB82-00AA00BDCE0B}') # HTMLDocumentEvents2

class Handler(HTMLDocumentEvents2Class):
    def __init__(self, obj):
        #self.__dict__['seen'] = 0       # evading restrictive
	__setattr__
        HTMLDocumentEvents2Class.__init__(self, obj)
        print 'Handler initialized'
    def onclick(self, *args):
        print 'onclick!', args
        seen +=1
    def Onclick(self, *args):
        print 'Onclick!', args
        seen +=1
    def Ononclick(self, eventIDispatch):
        print 'Ononclick ',
        seen += 1
        print seen
        # am not sure what this line is supposed to do
        eventIDispatch =
	win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch(eventIDispatch)
        el = eventIDispatch.srcElement
        print "el = ", str(el)
        print 'clic on %s(%s) "%s", at (%d,%d)' % (
            el.tagName, el.id, el.innerText,
            eventIDispatch.clientX, eventIDispatch.clientY)

# ------------------------------------------------------------
# properties of event PyIDispatch object: (I think)
# -- all properties of IE4+ DOM 'event' object
# ------------------------------------------------------------

h = Handler(ie.Document)
print 'handler created'


while seen < 5:
    pythoncom.PumpWaitingMessages()

ie.Quit()

# ---- begin code ------------------------------------------------------


--
colin | i opened my windows 95 user manual and fell into a magical world.
roald |   -- greg kluzak, dishonourable mention, 1998 bulwer-lytton contest


From bh at intevation.de  Wed Nov  6 11:54:48 2002
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 17:54:48 +0100
Subject: Emacs and Indentation
References: <aqbcvb$6b65@eccws12.dearborn.ford.com>
Message-ID: <6q4rauiqp3.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

"Michael Tiller" <mtiller at ford.com> writes:

> Sure, I can type stuff like this:
> 
>     if not x in filled:
>         foo[x] = x[1]
>         bar[x] = x[2]
>     y = x
> 
> ...and Emacs handles this just as I would expect.  BUT, what happens when I
> try to put this code into a for loop?  After I add my for loop, I have:
> 
>     for x in mylist:
>     if not x in filled:
>         foo[x] = x[1]
>         bar[x] = x[2]
>     y = x
> 
> In other languages (Tcl, Java, C++) where the block delimiters are explicit,
> I can just highlight the region and issue an "indent-region" and it would
> automatically indent everything appropriately.  As far as I can tell, this
> does nothing in Emacs (v21.4, windows).  So, I have to go and indent using
> the TAB key. 

Select the region you want indented and use C-c >
Use C-c < to outdent

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/


From trevorperrin at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 20 02:14:11 2002
From: trevorperrin at hotmail.com (Trevor)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 23:14:11 -0800
Subject: zero-copy array slicing (and PEP 296)
References: <e5e6d03.0211190138.e7cfc0e@posting.google.com> <JLqC9.37182$Yw.1775061@news2.tin.it> <e5e6d03.0211191238.65b572c3@posting.google.com> <bvyC9.29870$744.1083099@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <e5e6d03.0211192314.4156d409@posting.google.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<bvyC9.29870> 
> Wouldn't it be simpler if your functions also accepted optional parameters 
> for offset and size in bytes?  So the user could call
> 
> hash(bytes, 128)
> encrypt(bytes)
> encrypt(bytes, start, finish-start)
> 
> ...?

Yeah, I could do that.  But if the language handled this it would
simplify the function interface and my code (I wouldn't need to check
for indexing errors, for example), and I could give users the more
familiar slice syntax.

I noticed that PEP 296, for a 'bytes' type, would do just what I want.
 I wonder how that's coming, and if it might be part of Python 2.3...

Trevor


From alpot at mylinuxsite.com  Fri Nov 29 06:56:44 2002
From: alpot at mylinuxsite.com (Alfredo P. Ricafort)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 19:56:44 +0800
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
Message-ID: <1038571003.6023.20.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi,

I'm quite new to Python.  So far I find it to be easy to learn and
simple to program.  However, one thing that I missed, especially someone
coming from C language, is 'struct'. It seems that when you define a
data structure in the form of a List, Tuple, or Dict., there is no way
to give names to each element. 

For example:

In C:
   struct Customer {
          char * Name;
          char * Address;
          char * TelNo;
   } Customer[];
  
   printf("Customer Name is %s\n",Customer[i].Name); 
   

In Python:
   Customer=[ [Name,Addres,TelNo], [Name,Address,TelNo],.....]
 
   print "Customer Name is %" Customer[i][0]

Now my problem is that when the structure of the record change, your
index has to change also. So in the example above, when the 'Name'
element is moved(say as the 3rd element - Customer[i][2]), then you have
to look all over your code and change accordingly. 

My question now is, how can I assign names to the elements? Or is there
a better way of doing this?

Thanks.

AL



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Nov 28 14:08:32 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:08:32 -0800
Subject: if <assignment>:
References: <mailman.1038323736.17630.python-list@python.org> <3DE4102D.7D4291F4@alcyone.com> <3DE58723.5040306@something.invalid> <as5k8n$e5o$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3DE669B0.627B7E9D@alcyone.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> BTW, is there anything written on what the BDFL may have in mind for
> ':=' and '?' and '@' etc for? I'm sure he wouldn't want to squander
> them
> on something trivial, but I wonder if there's some indication.

I would hope at least some of these punctuation symbols remain
indefinitely unused, so that they can be used as out-of-band indicators
in, for instance, templating system.  (EmPy uses @ by default, for
instance.)

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Some mistakes we must carry with us.
\__/ Speaker-to-Animals
    Blackgirl International / http://www.blackgirl.org/
 The Internet resource for black women.


From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 29 07:41:19 2002
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:41:19 +0000
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
Message-ID: <F137JeoYWJQ5IuL3kJl0000bfc7@hotmail.com>

>I'm quite new to Python.  So far I find it to be easy to learn and
>simple to program.  However, one thing that I missed, especially someone
>coming from C language, is 'struct'. It seems that when you define a
>data structure in the form of a List, Tuple, or Dict., there is no way
>to give names to each element.
>
>For example:
>
>In C:
>    struct Customer {
>           char * Name;
>           char * Address;
>           char * TelNo;
>    } Customer[];
>
>    printf("Customer Name is %s\n",Customer[i].Name);
>
>
>In Python:
>    Customer=[ [Name,Addres,TelNo], [Name,Address,TelNo],.....]
>
>    print "Customer Name is %" Customer[i][0]
>
Hmmm. I'm dealing with that sort of thing at the moment, and I find that 
Python classes come in really useful. Try:

class Customer(object):
    """Default Customer Definition"""
    def __init__(self):
        self.name=""
        self.address=""
        self.telno=""

This is so much more flexible than the C structure. For example:

>>>from randomobj import *
>>>custlist=[Customer(),Customer()]

Gives you 2 Customer class instances, each with its own set of variables as 
you defined above(not strictly correct, but good enough for simple 
explanation):

>>>custlist.append(Customer())       # Add another customer
>>>print custlist                    # Actually a list of 'pointers'
[<randomobj.Customer object at 0x81545ec>, <randomobj.Customer object at 
0x811ebcc>, <randomobj.Customer object at 0x8155a04>]
>>>print custlist[0].__dict__        # Access all attributes
{'telno': '', 'name': '', 'address': ''}
>>>custlist[0].name='Paul Simmonds'  # Accessing by name
>>>custlist[0].telno='123456'
>>>print custlist[0].__dict__        # Changed attributes
{'telno': '123456', 'name': 'Paul Simmonds', 'address': ''}

This form will probably do as much as you want, but you can include more 
functionality by wrapping the 'object' special functions. However, the 
Python.org Reference Manual section 3.3 explains it better than I can.

HTH,
Paul

<snip>
>Thanks.
>
>AL
>
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail




From timr at probo.com  Sun Nov 17 23:27:52 2002
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:27:52 -0800
Subject: Formatted Output - Floating Point Numbers
References: <d8d62a73.0211161321.12603c31@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <buqgtuc0p7qn1m5pd06pc1fo9pi0d3ftsu@4ax.com>

maximum_hops at yahoo.co.uk (David Marshall) wrote:

>Im new to python and I was wondering if anybody could tell me how to
>modify the output to only obtaiu 2 decimal places.
>
>the section of my program that needs modification
>
>display.divide(57,7) # I only want 2 decimal places returned
>
>I have a module called display and my function divide() returns the
>result of the two numbers divided. However, I only want this number to
>two decimal places.

The correct answer to your question has already been posted, but I want to
use this opportunity to point out a caution.

Your sample says you want "2 decimal places returned".  That is almost
NEVER what you really want to do.  You usually want to keep all the bits
you can, but only DISPLAY 2 decimal places.  The difference is important.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Nov 14 17:44:08 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 17:44:08 -0500
Subject: proxy object
In-Reply-To: <g9VA9.798177$v53.29877973@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
References: <g9VA9.798177$v53.29877973@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <oqel9nn553.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Mike Warren]

> I have a simplified example of what I want to do (which isn't working),
> which basically boils down to this: I want to return a ``proxy'' object
> which delays the instantiation of expensive-to-instantiated objects,
> but I want the object to -- after the instantiation -- behave just like
> it would without the proxy.

Hello, Mike.  Would not it be nicer to merely create the final object
immediately, while implementing some kind of lazy initialisation?  I do
this in many projects: it works just as expected, clean and simple.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Nov 18 21:03:45 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 02:03:45 GMT
Subject: multi-quoted strings for HERE documents
References: <slrnatj24u.7mq.msoulier@tigger.digitaltorque.ca>
Message-ID: <arc661$53j$0@216.39.172.122>

On 19 Nov 2002 00:40:45 GMT, "Michael P. Soulier" <msoulier at storm.ca._nospam> wrote:

>    Hey people,
>
>    At work I do a mix of Perl and Python. I'm a big fan of the latter.
>However, there's one thing that I like in Perl that I haven't quite gotten the
>same feel out of Python yet. That would be HERE documents. 
>
>ie. 
>
>print<<EOF;
><table>
>    <tr>
>        <td>cell contents</td>
>    </r>
></table>
>EOF
>
>    Now, I can get close in Python with multi-line strings, like so...
>
>print """
><table>
>    <tr>
>        <td>cell contents</td>
>    </r>
></table>"""
>
>    But, there's an initial newline in the output because of where the
>beginning quotes are. I can put the quotes on the next line to avoid that...
>
>print \
>"""<table>
>etc

so close ;-)

 >>> print """\
 ... <table>
 ...     <tr>
 ...         <td>cell contents</td>
 ...     </r>
 ... </table>"""
 <table>
     <tr>
         <td>cell contents</td>
     </r>
 </table>


 >>> """\
 ... <table>
 ...     <tr>
 ...         <td>cell contents</td>
 ...     </r>
 ... </table>"""
 '<table>\n    <tr>\n        <td>cell contents</td>\n    </r>\n</table>'

BTW, are you sure you didn't want a last \n before the final """ ?

I've wanted HERE document delimiting too, but mainly for the ability to
choose an arbitrary delimiter.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From klausm0762 at yahoo.de  Fri Nov  8 14:47:32 2002
From: klausm0762 at yahoo.de (Klaus Momberger)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 11:47:32 -0800
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3DCBDAAD.AD27DFEE@juno.com>
Message-ID: <80a8af7d.0211081147.15cfd915@posting.google.com>

Jeff Sandys <sandysj at juno.com> wrote in message news:<3DCBDAAD.AD27DFEE at juno.com>...
> Oleg wrote:
> > 
> > ... I couldn't help but wonder why Python is popular, 
> > while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
> 
> One reason is that Python has a lower threshold for learning. 
> We can get a non-programmer productive in Python in 8-16 hours 
>
Pardon me, but I totally disagree on that.
A *non-programmer* *productive* in Python within 8 hours ??? Gimme a break.
Do you work for a training firm or what ?

> of training, but it takes 24-40 hours of training for Lisp.
> 
> My personal view: Lisp is more powerful, Python is more fun.
> 
No point in discussing that ....

-klaus


From roy at panix.com  Wed Nov 20 18:57:00 2002
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 18:57:00 -0500
Subject: def hook?
Message-ID: <arh7gc$pj8$1@panix2.panix.com>

I'd like to have a bit of code run every time a function is defined.
The original reason for this was that I was writing a unit test
framework, and wanted a way to register my test case methods
automatically as they got defined.  I've since discovered PyUnit, and
understand the introspection magic it does to get around this, but
it's still an interesting problem in isolation.

If Python were more lisp-like, there would be nothing magic about def;
it would just take a function body and a name and do an assignment.  I
could imagine doing something like:

-----begin theoretical quasi-python code------

functionNameList = []

def myDef (name, body):
    name = body
    functionNameList.append (name)

myDef myFunc:
      print "this is my function"

for func in functionNameList:
    func()
----------------------------------------------

Is there anyway to do anything like that?


From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Nov 18 19:49:33 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:49:33 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-68FE2B.16210718112002@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <005d01c28f65$8736f570$21795418@dell1700>

David wrote:
> Ok, so out of curiosity what does one have to do to get string
> comparisons done alphabetically instead of in ASCII collation
ordering?
> I tried looking in the Python Library Reference under strings and
> unicode (since one would want correct handling of accented chars) but
> didn't see anything.

String collation is locale dependant, so check out the locale module.
That being said, the locale module is evil so never use it :-)

Cheers,
Brian




From ark at research.att.com  Thu Nov 14 21:47:01 2002
From: ark at research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:47:01 GMT
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <mailman.1037323524.31561.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yu99u1ijeehm.fsf@europa.research.att.com>

Simon> I doubt that the C / C++ reference includes examples on slicing
Simon> lists and using dictionaries, whereas the Python reference
Simon> would *have* to, as these constructs are integral to the
Simon> language.

You might be surprised what you would find in the C++ standard library...

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 23 11:15:23 2002
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 08:15:23 -0800
Subject: Python as first language (Re: static variables?)
References: <cYiC9.5388$fY3.575010@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <8ef9bea6.0211201119.2f846d0c@posting.google.com> <JxqdnQqI-cZFnEGgXTWcqA@comcast.com> <8ef9bea6.0211220601.4c92d43e@posting.google.com> <j8lmra.5g4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0211230815.39fabd1d@posting.google.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<j8lmra.5g4.ln at beastie.ix.netcom.com>...
> Hung Jung Lu fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 22 November 2002 
> 06:01 am:
> > Let me ask you, just in case you totally missed the point. Is it
> > possible for a program to severely hit the harddrive without the
> > programmer writing any code on file operation?
>         Recursive structure allocation with no limit check could fill 
> available RAM, then overflow to swap space. {Especially under Windows 
> <G>}

Bingo!

Hung Jung


From matt_gerrans at hp.com  Mon Nov 11 20:17:28 2002
From: matt_gerrans at hp.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:17:28 -0800
Subject: Another question about  PythonWin
References: <mailman.1036977973.7725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aqpkni$hm3$1@web1.cup.hp.com>

"Tony Cappellini" <tony at tcapp.com> wrote:
>
> When I call os.system('cls') in Pythwonwin, a window opens then closes,
but
> my interactive screen never gets cleared :(

Exactly what you should expect.

> If I execute the same command in IDLE, IPython, or python.exe ,the screen
> is cleared .

I think you may want to check again.   It will work in the console window
for Python in interactive mode, but I don't see how IDLE would handle this
any differently than PythonWin (unless the IDLE shell was actually
intercepting this particular special, which it isn't, AFAIK).

os.system('cls') is just opening a shell console window and calling "cls" in
it, which has nothing to do with Python (and is platform-specific, by the
way).

If you want to clear the interactive window in PythonWin, I think you can
simply select everything (Ctrl-A) and either cut (Ctrl-X) or delete it.

I thought I had seen a "clear" menu item some time in the past (in IDLE or
PythonWin), but when I just looked now, I don't see it...




From maney at pobox.com  Wed Nov 13 18:30:21 2002
From: maney at pobox.com (maney at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:30:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036990276.13298.python-list@python.org> <i%Kz9.15914$Bs5.565672@news1.tin.it> <aqs5ff$ru$1@wheel2.two14.net> <aqsn4t$6h2$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <aqunac$qj$4@wheel2.two14.net>

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote:
> Well, I highly disagree that changing assignment semantics is the
> solution to this, for three reasons.  First, I have a general distaste
> for anything that returns a value and has side effects.

De gustibus...

> Second, it leads to all kinds of unreadability in the code by people
> abusing it.

I have violently mixed feelings about this sort of argument.  See, for
example, my thoughts somewhere around here (my, big thread we're having,
isn't it?) on the almost identical "it leads people into error" meme.  I
know that "so stop hitting your thumb with the hammer if it hurts" isn't an
adequate response, but boy does it want to escape... as it just did.  :-)

Besides, I think COBOL proved long since that mechanical restraints don't
magically result in readable code.  Pronounceable, maybe...

> Third, it is an incomplete solution.

It's complete enough for me - when the stuff-to-be-done gets too big, then I
consider wrapping it up as a function perfectly reasonable.  As, I want to
point out, was done in the sketch I posted.  :-)

> A new syntax would be the best solution, IMHO.  For example, the
> suppose statement:

Would I be right in supposing that you are not unfamiliar with Knuth's paper
"Structured Programming with Goto Statements"?  :-)

> However, it is not likely to happen because it adds a new keyword, and
> the idiom is not too common.  (Some will argue that it's hard to
> follow, although I wouldn't say it's any harder than else: clauses on
> fors and whiles.)

The real problem is that there is no end to number of special-case control
structures you can find some use for.

> And, getting this back to the topic, you could do this if Python had
> macros.

Macros are too steep a price to pay.  I said that I don't like arguments of
this form, but macros are, IME, far too much associated with code that's
really difficult to understand.  I think it's basically the jargon problem:
the more you're immersed in a problem, the more you tend to use a terse,
contextually inspired shorthand, and the less comprehensible you are to
anyone not so immersed.  Macros let you jargonize your code.

Or it may be simpler.  Macros that let one invent a new [variant] language
may do even more to reveal that designing languages isn't one's strongest
suit than anything else.  :-/
 
> that.  That's why we have Lisp.  Having the occasional useful syntax
> not available (tryexcept anyone? conditional operator?) is a price
> you pay sometimes.

Yep.  That's why I got started on this quest for a more Pythonic way to do
what, in this case, needs doing.  I'm afraid the operator= issue was more of
an inspiration to start the discussion than my real interest.



From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Wed Nov 27 20:51:53 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 28 Nov 2002 01:51:53 GMT
Subject: redirecting stdout
References: <as3heh$npuk0$1@ID-165840.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrnauatlp.jv.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Marco Herrn wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am redirecting my output to a file via:
> sys.stderr= open('out.txt','a', 0)
> 
> All exceptions are handled like this:
> 
> try:
>   ...
> except Exception, detail:
>         print detail
> 
> That works. But I am missing the line numbers. How can I get to the line
> numbers in exceptions?

Check out the 'traceback' module. Here's a short example:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/traceback-example.html

-- Gerhard


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Nov 10 23:51:34 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 22:51:34 -0600
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
	<aqhmib$ei8$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <lzznsipz4s.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
	<ff133276.0211091535.47871cf2@posting.google.com>
	<aqkdoq$db6$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<3dce5e2f$0$35917$edfadb0f@dread13.news.tele.dk> 
	<dVuz9.13174$Bs5.470454@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <1036990294.2707.109.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Sun, 2002-11-10 at 09:27, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Surprise, surprise: the language that's always itself, always well designed, 
> is popular; the languages that anybody can change arbitrarily aren't.

I think you underestimate the ability to mess with Python.  You can make
weird things in Python by using the magic methods, things which act in
unexpected ways.  It *is* true that these aren't syntactic additions,
but Lisp doesn't have significant syntactic additions either -- macros
change the semantics, but the ()'s are still there and are always parsed
the same way.  The semantics of execution just get messed with.

It may be true that Lisp fails to respond to users needs because macros
are a good excuse.  Prefix notation may not be good, but many people
have noted that you can use a macro to get infix notation -- which isn't
a real solution.  It's saying you can solve it yourself, in your code,
but Lisp the language isn't going to be compromised for aesthetic
reasons.  Lisp lacks any conventional syntactic sugar, and you shouldn't
depend on extensions to make the core language sweet.  But I wouldn't
actually blame Lisp's popularity on that.

Anyway, Python is not a clear contrast to Lisp's flexibility.  Pascal is
a good contrast, and Pascal *truly* sucks.  Python's language tricks
happen at a higher level, but they are still language tricks.

--
Ian Bicking           Colorstudy Web Development
ianb at colorstudy.com   http://www.colorstudy.com
PGP: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0x9B9E28B7
4869 N Talman Ave, Chicago, IL 60625 / (773) 275-7241



From paul at boddie.net  Thu Nov  7 07:40:12 2002
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 04:40:12 -0800
Subject: Jython - ok to obfuscate code?
References: <uH6y9.44584$Lg2.12105314@news2.news.adelphia.net> <23891c90.0211060727.7e422788@posting.google.com> <BBay9.44669$Lg2.12149141@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0211070440.28a3dd57@posting.google.com>

"Robert Oschler" <Oschler at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<BBay9.44669$Lg2.12149141 at news2.news.adelphia.net>...
> 

[jythonc]

> I assume that you are suggesting that because that's at least one step more
> secure than a uncompiled *.py script?  In addition, once it becomes a true
> Java class it will be fodder for the obfuscator?

Well, last time I looked, jythonc produced Java source code that looks
a lot like what one would expect from a Java version of Python2C or a
Python program translated fairly literally to a Java program making
heavy use of the Python runtime functions. Many people would consider
that obfuscated enough, but add the compilation to Java class files,
and anyone "decompiling" the code has a long way to go to get anything
like the original Python sources.

Paul


From bvdpoel at kootenay.com  Wed Nov  6 21:19:25 2002
From: bvdpoel at kootenay.com (Bob van der Poel)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:19:25 -0700
Subject: Optik long help strings
Message-ID: <3DC9CDAD.91A42BDB@kootenay.com>

I'm trying to use the Optik package for parsing command line options.
However, I'm running into a problem overriding its line warping
routines. I'd like the help to print something like:

	options:
		-p, --pattern   Set pattern
			'xx'  use the xx pattern
			'yy'  use the yy pattern
			... more list of pattern options

Seems that optik thinks it knows better where the new lines should go.
Suggestions?
	
		
-- 
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bvdpoel at kootenay.com
WWW:   http://www.kootenay.com/~bvdpoel



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Nov  9 13:56:04 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 19:56:04 +0100
Subject: none - output
References: <1036864302.150371@news.liwest.at>
Message-ID: <aqjlsb$kcd$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:59:28 +0100, "Christian Stockhammer"
<christian.stockhammer at students.uni-linz.ac.at> wrote:

>Hello List!
>
>I wrote a litte program that will print out the rates of a credit, but i
>face some problems. Here is the code:

<snip some code>

To start with, it would be nicer to keep the indentation information
in the posting, because then it's easier to check what's going on.

>for i in range(0,5):
>
>zinsen = (schuld*zinsfaktor)/100
>
>echtetilgung=tilgung-zinsen
>
>i = i + 1

Here the loop var is possibly incremented, I can't be sure because
the indentation is missing. If the loop var *is* incremented: That is
almost always a bad thing to do.

Regards,
		Anton.


From romerun at romerun.com  Tue Nov 12 04:36:45 2002
From: romerun at romerun.com (And then there's RomeRun)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 01:36:45 -0800
Subject: Can python find fibonacci series in a single line of code?
References: <fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <81c4c1ff.0211120136.5f03dd12@posting.google.com>

a_human_work at hotmail.com (Pittaya) wrote in message news:<fa61a3d8.0211110720.16a645f8 at posting.google.com>...
> My Perl-addicted friend shows me that he can find fibanicci series in
> a single line of code.
> 
> perl -le '$b=1; print $a+=$b while print $b+=$a'
> 
> can python do something like this?

No idea, however in parrot vm the code may look nearly like to this one:

        set I1,0
        set I2,1
James:  print I1
        print "\n"
        add I2,I2,I1
        print I2
        print "\n";
        add I1,I1,I2
        branch James

from http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/09/18/parrot.html?page=2


From lbrannma at cablespeed.com  Sat Nov 23 00:49:06 2002
From: lbrannma at cablespeed.com (Lance)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:49:06 -0800
Subject: screen off?
Message-ID: <utu5bo8fsqr1d2@corp.supernews.com>

Hi All,

Some of my programs generate considerable screen output. I would like to
turn off the screen output to save time while developing. Is there a way to
do this, and turn it back on again?

Thanks,
Lance




From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Nov 14 04:58:51 2002
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:58:51 +0100
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037219902.17042.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-3E6E36.10585114112002@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1037219902.17042.python-list at python.org>,
 Cameron Horn <camhorn at mac.com> wrote:

> If I want to write an empty class, I do this:
> class foo:
>    pass
> 
> If I want to write an empty function, I write this:
> def foo():
>    pass
> -or-
> def foo():
>    return
> 
> If I want to write an empty generator, I write this(?):
> def foo():
>    return
>    yield "never"
> 
> Assuming that having an empty generator is as valid as empty functions and 
> classes, what kind of linguistic cruft is that?  I expect better out of 
> python, dang it.
> 
> What I'd like to write is:
> gen foo():
>    return

IMO the best idiom for this currently is

  def foo():
      while 0:
          yield "whatever"

That's much better than the putting the yield after a return...

Just


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Nov  4 04:43:23 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:43:23 GMT
Subject: modules share variables without class def
References: <6b9badbc.0211040120.316be0e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <%irx9.68426$aL4.2105538@news1.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

Ulrich Backes wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> from several postings, i compiled the following scheme:
> 
> # test.py:
> from func import testf
> import globalvars
> globalvars.port = 1
> print testf() # -----> 1 OK!
> 
> # globalvars.py:
> port = None
> global port

This 'global port' statement is (innocuous but) useless.

A global statement in global scope is always useless.

The only real purpose of the global statement is to be
within a function that needs to RE-BIND a global name.



> # func.py:
> import globalvars
> def testf():
>   return(globalvars.port)

The parentheses in the return statement are (innocuous
but) useless.

I STRONGLY recommend you avoid including useless clutter
in your code, even when it's technically innocuous.  It
may make it harder to see the forest for the trees, and
in this sense be DAMAGING, *NOT* really innocuous.

William of Occam had it right: entities must not be
multiplied without necessity.  He'd have been a pretty
good Python programmer, I think.


> That works. But if i try to use the blank variable name, it fails:
> 
> # test.py:
> from func import testf
> from globalvars import port

This from/import statement binds to unqualified name 'port'
the value to which globalvars.port is also bound.
In this sense, it's like the sequence:

import globalvars
port = globalvars.port
del globalvars

> port = 1

This re-binds unqualified name 'port' to the value 1.

Re-binding a name *NEVER* affects other names bound to
the same value, of course.

Thus, in particular, after
    port = globalvars.port
or equivalently
    from globalvars import port

re-binding unqualified name port cannot possibly have
ANY effect on name globalvars.port.

> print testf() # -----> None...

Of course -- name globalvars.port was first bound
to value None, and never re-bound.  And even if it was:


> # globalvars.py:
> port = None
> global port

Again, a redundant global statement.

> 
> # func.py:
> from globalvars import port

this too binds unqualified name 'port' to whatever value
name 'globalvars.port' is bound at this time.  Now, even
if name globalvars.port were to be re-bound to different
values, this would have no conceivable effect whatsoever
on unqualified name 'port'.

> def testf():
>   return(port)

Again, redundant parentheses.

> 
> Thanks for your advice,

There seems to be some substantial misunderstandings about
what is a name, the binding of one or more names to a value,
and the effect (or, rather, utter lack of any) that re-binding
one of the several names currently bound to a value should
have on the other names that were bound to the same value.

Names are not "aware" of each other.  If any given object
has more than one name bound to it at a given time (it makes
NO difference whether the binding was performed via the
usual "assignment statement", or via other means such as
the from statement), you can rebind any one of those names
without ANY effect on the other names.

My practical advice is: forget Python has a 'from' statement.
It's intended as a handy shorthand, but I think it causes
confusion in newbies.  ANYTHING you can do with 'from', you
can do with 'import' too, possibly followed by binding or
re-binding with assignments and/or unbinding via the del
statement -- 'from' can be slightly handier and more concise,
but that tiny gain is not worth the confusion it can cause.
Whatever you just can't do with 'import', you can't do
with 'from' either.

One think you just can't do is "magically bind" unqualified
names in several modules so that a re-binding of one of those
names will magically cause re-bindings of some or all of the
others.  Unqualified names just don't work that way.  Give up.


Alex



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Mon Nov 25 00:05:23 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:05:23 -0600
Subject: Python and gd library - Thank to all
References: <HrvD9.42612$744.1519497@news1.tin.it> <mAbE9.50069$744.1815000@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <006401c29440$49e41f60$ba01010a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antonio.P" <antonio.p at libero.it>


> Thank to all for the aswers.
> I looked "python and gl-lib" and not "python +gd" in google so I had not
> found so much :-P
>
> The old gd-lib 1.8 can create and manipolate low quality images jpg but
the
> new gd-lib 2.0 can create and manipulate high quality jpg.

I wasn't aware of any difference there... I am now using
GD 2.0.1 on my development system, and my gddemo.py still
produces fuzzy and color-incorrect JPEG's; the *same* image
object produces a crisp, clear PNG.

NOTE:  If anyone has any insight into the fuzzy JPEG output
from libgd, I'd be thrilled to read about it.

> Hi hope to find a python implementation of the new gd-lib... sooner or
later
> :-)

The gdmodule version currently available on my website
supports GD 1.8.3 up to GD 2.0.1, thanks to the kind
contributions of Mike Romberg.  Grab it here:

    http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/gdmodule.html


Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net




From michel.l.combe at free.fr  Sat Nov 23 12:58:17 2002
From: michel.l.combe at free.fr (Michel COMBE)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:58:17 +0100
Subject: Newbie : desperately need help on "import MySQLdb"
References: <3ddfa321$0$18230$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <mailman.1038068625.12758.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ddfc208$0$11853$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Thanks, John. I finally got it.

You were right. There's probably something strange with my rpm distribution.
"/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_mysql.so" was missing.

I downloaded the tar version of MySQLdb and made the build (not the install
as I feared a version problem). I copied _mysql.so in
/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages et Voila !

Now I can start working :-)

Michel Combe




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Nov 22 17:39:09 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:39:09 +0100
Subject: [OT] Reciprocal function?
References: <aril5k$e07$1@news.hccnet.nl> <k9ydnYocmIDF8kOgXTWc3Q@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <armbq7$6dl$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:06:04 -0500, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:

<snip some concerns about unorthodox approaches>

Today I got a visualization that solved the problem (I think). It uses
the matrix that the code at the bottom produces. Until today it didn't
occur to me to describe its structure like this:

def blockinfo(block,base):
    blockstart,width = 0,1
    for i in range(block):
        width = width * base
        blockstart = blockstart + width
    return blockstart, width

It should be relatively easy to construct a function that finds a
value in a block (and each value occurs only once in a block) and
returns it's row and column headers.

The code computes a matrix where the individual cells are defined as
the output of "concatting" the row and column headers.

Thank you very much for your reaction and I would welcome further
pointers,

regards,
	Anton.

def rowinc(x,base):
    i,j = 0,1
    while i <= x:
        j = j * base
        i = i + j
    return j
        
def concat(a,b,base):
    f = rowinc(b,base)
    return f*(a+1)+b
  
def pprint(m):
    w = len(m[0][0])
    for x in m:
        for y in x:
            fs = '%%%is' %w
            print fs %y,
        print
  
def main():
    base = 2
    x1,y1,x2,y2 = 0,0,20,10
    width = 7
    res = []
    tmp = [' ' * width]
    for i in range(y1,y2+1):
        tmp.append(i)
    res.append(tmp)
    for i in range(x1,x2+1):
        tmp=[i]
        for j in range(y1,y2+1):
            tmp.append(concat(i,j,base))
        res.append(tmp)
    pprint(res)
   
if __name__=='__main__':
    main()



From polux2001 at wanadoo.fr  Sun Nov  3 07:58:50 2002
From: polux2001 at wanadoo.fr (polux)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 13:58:50 +0100
Subject: get data from a Toplevel when closing it
Message-ID: <3DC51D8A.90808@wanadoo.fr>

first, excuse my english...I'm french


I made a class derivated from the Tkinter's Toplevel class like this :

Myclass(Toplevel):

	def __init__(self,master,**arg)
		
			Toplevel.__init__(master,arg)
			self.master = master	


Now, I want to get data from this Toplevel (eg data from entries 
widgets) when I'm closing it.

I've found a trick in the Filedialog.py example file which consists in 
creating a fonction like this :

def go(self):

	self.master.mainloop	
	return data


and an other activated by a 'quit' button for example :

def quit(self):

	data = self.entry.get()		
	self.master.destroy()	
	self.master.quit()


I'm launching my class like this :

root = Tk()
m = Myclass(root)

data = m.go()

root.mainloop()
root.destroy()


It works but they are two problems :

1. It seems to be a 'dirty' method to do this
2. when I'am exiting the root window ( by clicking on a button for 
example), I have to do it twice because there are 2 mainloop() launched



Please help me if there is a better way to do it....I'm sure there is.



From costanza at web.de  Thu Nov 21 12:10:04 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:10:04 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <87u1ib6bte.fsf@key.localdomain> <3u3D9.49382$Yw.2293340@news2.tin.it> <874rabdo3t.fsf@key.localdomain> <5r6D9.50977$Yw.2347638@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <arj417$bro$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Macros let you design a different language on top of whatever language
> you have (that supports full-power macros).  That's my major beef with
> them, and ultimately the reason I'm not in the Lisp or Dylan communities,
> as above noticed.  I don't WANT to use a language that lets me redesign
> it -- worse, I most definitely don't want to use a language that lets
> _others_ redesign it, and find myself stuck using and supporting half
> a dozen different (and mostly badly designed) languages in as many
> disparate projects.

How is using a badly designed language worse than using a badly designed 
API? Just don't use them!

But maybe I am missing something here?!? Could you elaborate more on that?


Pascal

-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From news at titanic.co.uk  Sun Nov 10 05:20:02 2002
From: news at titanic.co.uk (Simon Faulkner)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:20:02 +0000
Subject: CGI download CSV
Message-ID: <ujcssu89sl9gd6chg1n42hm4o7m2819gje@4ax.com>

Hi All,

My Python CGI program generates a .CSV file and I would like Windows
users to be able to download it via their web browser.

How do i set about this?

I guess it has something to do with content type?

TIA

Simon


From theller at python.net  Thu Nov  7 12:37:43 2002
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 18:37:43 +0100
Subject: "Universal Gateway"
References: <apkc4c$d5s$2@pith.uoregon.edu> <n0oxjc6f.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Rejw9.22645$jE1.72970@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <1y63gc02.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Y_Nx9.14995$5u4.46256@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <heewyxlc.fsf@ion-tof.com> <ursy9.23689$5u4.72621@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <fzud3760.fsf@python.net> <3dca986a$1_5@goliath.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <u1itz3fc.fsf@python.net>

"Brad Clements" <bkc at Murkworks.com> writes:

> "Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message
> news:fzud3760.fsf at python.net...
> 
> > Maybe calling custom COM interfaces is the first hole this module can
> > fill up.
> >
> 
> But wait, there's more!
> 
> Last year while porting Python 2.2 to the Pocket PC platform, I snuck some
> utility functions into win32gui that supported packing/unpacking dword
> values from windows message structures.. These functions were then used in a
> Win32CC (Common Controls) package that I started to assemble. That package
> included a structure access module somewhat similar to, but not as good as,
> yours.
> 
> I've downloaded your current source release and I am planning to use your
> structure access stuff to build better win32 common control classes so
> win32gui users can get at ListView and other goodies.
> 
> This should work on desktop win32 and Windows CE...
> 

Doesn't Windows CE run on non-Intel cpus?
Be warned, there's some inline-assembler code in the ctypes sourcecode,
and also it relies on sizeof(int) == sizeof(long) == sizeof(void *).

Thomas


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Sun Nov  3 16:43:48 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 13:43:48 -0800
Subject: Parsing & question about usages off classes!
References: <docx9.172161$Mf5.8344841@Flipper> <iWcx9.81076$TD1.3676165@news2.tin.it> <0efx9.175905$Mf5.8592441@Flipper>
Message-ID: <ka54qa.8p3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Frans fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 03 November 2002 11:58 am:
> 
> Ok. I am trying a different approach. But I am still having problems.
> 
> I want to create several new list. The name off the new lists will
> come from another list. That way I can create several lists, depending
> on the data received from logfiles. Is that possible ?
> 
> Or isnt that a good idea either ? :)
>
        You seem to be stuck on the idea of creating dynamic variable 
/names/... Though how do you intend to refer to those names later?
 
> So basicly:
> my_list['some','data']
> variable = my_list[0]
> variable = list
> 
> Now this doesnt work, but the result I want is a new list with the
> name 'some'.
> 
Python 2.2 (#1, Feb 24 2002, 16:21:58)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk)] on linux-i386
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> dictoflists = {}
>>> alist = ['log1', 'log3', 'log2']
>>> for l in alist:
...     dictoflists[l] = []
...
>>> dictoflists
{'log2': [], 'log3': [], 'log1': []}
>>> dictoflists['log1'] = dictoflists['log1'] + ['data1']
>>> dictoflists['log1'] = dictoflists['log1'] + ['data3']
>>> dictoflists['log1']
['data1', 'data3']
>>>
>>> dictoflists['log1'].append('datan')
>>> dictoflists['log1']
['data1', 'data3', 'datan']
>>> dictoflists['log2'].append('datanew')
>>> dictoflists
{'log2': ['datanew'], 'log3': [], 'log1': ['data1', 'data3', 'datan']}

--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From member at dbforums.com  Wed Nov 13 08:27:53 2002
From: member at dbforums.com (bandekap)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:27:53 +0000
Subject: Unicode in JSP
Message-ID: <2041930.1037194073@dbforums.com>

I wanted to take multiple language characters in my jsp file.
I am storing these characters in Oracle database.
In my JSP file, I am using following code.
<META content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>

But In my oracle database for three japanese characters it is storing
data in this form.
&#12373;&#12384;&#12431;

Does this data in UNicode format?
Does my browser need special setting for unicode? I am using IE6.0.
Instead of above content type, if i use
<META content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv=Content-Type>
it some times shows different data in the browser, Since i am storing
and getting these data from oracle database.

Can any body help me out?

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com


From wilk-spamout at flibuste.net  Wed Nov 27 02:26:01 2002
From: wilk-spamout at flibuste.net (William)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 08:26:01 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to write web-based GUI using Python?
References: <3DE4448E.5080201@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <87vg2j8ody.fsf@flibuste.net>

Pierre Rouleau <pieroul at attglobal.net> writes:

> I have been using Python for some pretty basic CGI scripts using the
> cgi module and the like on a simple http server running over the
> CGIHTTPServer.  I am now wondering if it would be possible to
> implement a complete GUI application available to a web browser and
> implemented in Python on the server side.
> 
> At first glance, http://www.python.org/topics/web/ does not seem to
> contain anything related to this.
> 
> What I'd like to be able to do is implement a complete GUI-based
> control application (with buttons, slider, whatever widgets the app
> needs) accessible over the web.
> 
> Is this possble with Python?  If so, where the best place to start looking?

I definitly do only this and hope to never have to come back in the
jungle of natives gui more or less pythonics !

I did my own very little framework hacking CGIHTTPServer... It's so
simple that it let me create a litle .exe with py2exe ! Really
impressive !

But i look more and more at www.twistedmatrix.com somebody could embed
it with py2exe ?

I can share my work but i did'nt take time to write any
documentation. Contact me by email if you are interested.

bye

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net


From b.hall at irl.cri.nz  Sun Nov 24 22:20:57 2002
From: b.hall at irl.cri.nz (Blair Hall)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:20:57 +1300
Subject: How to emulate matrix element access like 'a[i,j]'?
Message-ID: <3DE19718.E31F0985@irl.cri.nz>

I have a class with a private matrix member (a Numeric.array)
and I'd like to allow clients to access matrix members through
suitable functions.

How can I create classes of object that supports the
access style:
    aMatrix[ row_index, col_index ]

It seems that __setitem__ and __getitem__ are not the right way to go.





From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Mon Nov 25 17:38:41 2002
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:38:41 +0100
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com> <5ApE9.52343$744.1917235@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DE2A671.B8F4C758@jandecaluwe.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 

> So, to wrap an arbitrary object X in such a way that X's special
> methods will be used by any operator, you need to ensure you do
> the wrapping with a _class_ that exposes said special methods.
> That's generally easiest to do with a factory function with a
> nested class that uses inheritance, but you have many other choices
> depending on what exactly you're trying to accomplish.

Mm, I think I see, thanks for that. (I'll try again to understand this 
from the documentation.) However, if I use inheritance from an immutable 
type, the subtype is automatically immutable also, right? So I wanted
mutability, I'm back to delegation ... and apparently stuck with
new-style classes ???

Jan

--
Jan Decaluwe
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 25 04:28:07 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:28:07 -0700
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au> <pan.2002.11.24.08.05.38.521605.727@thomas-guettler.de> <arpvi8$f9c$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <arsn14$pfi$1@news.netpower.no>
Message-ID: <arsqf9$b0d$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

David Brown wrote:

> If you can find it, there is a free (!) powerpoint viewer from Microsoft,
> along with word and excel viewers.  They are a bit old, and may not support
> the latest formats - they may not even still be available.  But they are
> very much faster than the real MS Office programs, and don't support macro
> viruses.

Which I'm sure works wonderfully well under Linux :)

> Of course, you can always use Open Office for PowerPoint files.

Which I have and use when there's no other option. But as much as it's great 
to have OO, it still takes _ages_ to load (on a very fast laptop with gobs of 
RAM), and doesn't look on-screen quite as nice as PDF. PDF is simply an 
excellent format for the job at hand: portable distribution of documents 
which retain their original look pretty much perfectly.

Fortunately I live in a world where people communicate in Latex, PostScript 
and PDF, so I simply very rarely have to bother with Microsoft file formats. 
And I try to keep it that way :) LyX and XEmacs are enough for pretty much 
all I do document-wise (with OpenOffice for the occasional spreadsheet).

Cheers,

f.


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Nov  5 07:07:10 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:07:10 +0100
Subject: bug report w\o registering
References: <mailman.1036471806.10073.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aq8cmh$gcq$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:49:20 +1100, "Delaney, Timothy"
<tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:

>> From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl [mailto:anton at vredegoor.doge.nl]
>> 
>> Here's a bug report. I don't want to register at SourceForge now
>> (browser settings etc.). Sorry for the inconvenience.
>
>If you do not submit to sourceforge, the bug report *will* be lost.

If you do not read the traceback you will not detect the bug.

Anton.

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> import os,popen2
>>> infile,outfile = os.popen2("dir","b",-1)
>>> outfile,infile = popen2.popen2("dir","b",-1)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in ?
    outfile,infile = popen2.popen2("dir","b",-1)
  File "D:\PYTHON22\lib\popen2.py", line 123, in popen2
    w, r = os.popen2(cmd, mode, bufsize)
TypeError: popen2() argument 2 must be string, not int
>>> 


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Nov  6 17:08:53 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:08:53 GMT
Subject: I "think" global is broken
References: <06qdnevbopUGFFSgXTWc3Q@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <Vpgy9.2873$h%5.101732@newsb.telia.net>

Larry Bates wrote:

> The following code works as expected.
>
> class test:
>     global _trace
>     def __init__(self):
>         if _trace: print "entering test.__init__"
>         return
>
> global _trace
> _trace=1
> x=test()
>
> Now if I move the class into a separate module called test.py
> and change the main program it no longer works
>
> from test import *
> global _trace, _debug
> _trace=1
> x=test()
>
> I get undefined global error
>
> I just don't believe that this is the way it should work.

"global" is a compiler directive that tells Python that a variable inside
a function or method is not local to the function, but belongs to the
module that function/method is defined inside.

you can learn more about local and global namespaces here:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/naming.html


if you want to create "global variables", put them in a module that
you import into your own modules.

#
# mymodule.py

import common

class test:
    def __init__(self):
        if common.trace: print "entering test.__init__"
        return

#
# common.py

trace = 0

#
# main.py

import mymodule
import common

common.trace=1

x=mymodule.test()

</F>




From admin at hardyards.info  Sat Nov 30 21:38:02 2002
From: admin at hardyards.info (HardYards)
Date: 30 Nov 2002 18:38:02 -0800
Subject: Button Focus Highlighting Under Windows
Message-ID: <5633113f.0211301838.5d9681f9@posting.google.com>

Am I going silly or don't buttons have a highlight state when running
under windows?

I want to build a toolbar with the behaviour that when the mouse is
over a button it is highlighted.

Thinking it was me I tried the following example from the web, and it
doesn't work either.

Mmmmmmm

from Tkinter import *

class MyApp:
	def __init__(self, parent):
		self.myParent = parent  ### (7) remember my parent, the root
		self.myContainer1 = Frame(parent)
		self.myContainer1.pack()
		
		self.button1 = Button(self.myContainer1)
		self.button1.configure(text="OK", background= "green")
		self.button1.pack(side=LEFT)	
		self.button1.bind("<Button-1>", self.button1Click) ### (1)
		
		self.button2 = Button(self.myContainer1)
		self.button2.configure(text="Cancel", background="red")   
		self.button2.pack(side=RIGHT)
		self.button2.bind("<Button-1>", self.button2Click) ### (2)
		
	def button1Click(self, event):    ### (3)
		if self.button1["background"] == "green": ### (4)
			self.button1["background"] = "yellow"
		else:
			self.button1["background"] = "green"
	
	def button2Click(self, event):  ### (5)
		self.myParent.destroy()     ### (6)

		
root = Tk()
myapp = MyApp(root)
root.mainloop()


From brian at sweetapp.com  Sat Nov 16 20:50:01 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:50:01 -0800
Subject: My Python Editor "ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE"  does
 not refesh
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021116174343.0402c048@wheresmymailserver.com>
Message-ID: <003d01c28ddb$a4832e90$21795418@dell1700>

>I am having the trouble of having to exit the editor every time I make
>some changes to my code in order to execute the code using the
>"ActiveState Python 2.2 - Python Win IDE" editor.

I recommend that you run your scripts from the command line. Or you
could use Idle-fork or one of the commercial IDEs that run your scripts
out of process.

Cheers,
Brian




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov 23 11:30:39 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:30:39 -0600
Subject: ~~~ Python Use Question ~~~
In-Reply-To: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com> (questions@smartcardware.com's
 message of "23 Nov 2002 07:39:14 -0800")
References: <2a001b6.0211230739.13aaf7c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2smxs6yfk.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "smartcardware" == smartcardware com <questions at smartcardware.com> writes:

    smartcardware> Greetings!  I am the lead developer in a upcoming
    smartcardware> game company that will start work on a new game at
    smartcardware> the beginning of 2003.  We are (like everyone else
    smartcardware> in the gaming industry right now) searching for a
    smartcardware> scripting language to use in our game.  I've heard
    smartcardware> that Python is a great scripting language with one
    smartcardware> downfall for game designers/programmers.  That is
    smartcardware> that you must embed your code into Python, instead


No, you can embed python into your program. See
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/ext.html, especially the
sections on "embedding python"

Search google and google groups for "embedding python"

John Hunter



From zoltan at trados.com  Thu Nov 14 04:26:47 2002
From: zoltan at trados.com (Zoltan Sekeres)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:26:47 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <m2y98g82li.fsf@python.net> <Xns92C46B1D0279Adpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3adkevs4y.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C4D30DA4C0dpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1imzcs6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <NpK9CKABSk09Ewvs@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <m3fzu5s1rj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Xns92C5C92001CEEdpawsonfreeservecouk@216.168.3.44> <m3u1ilqic9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3DD36C57.8050604@trados.com>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> Longer-term, I have been considering that using XML might help
> translating the Python documentation to French and German, but I'm
> certain that nobody else has that usage in mind. So I'm wondering what
> other people expect from this, apart from buzzword compliance.

A word from the trenches ...

 From my experience (I work for TRADOS, a translation tools provider) the
translation becomes much easier with XML. With XML it is usually
sufficient to provide a simple config file for our TagEditor product and
it just works.

Actually there is an occasional case where a Latex suport is requested,
but that dies quickly off, because the Latex is inherently hard to parse
so that the translator has enough context to do a good job. Especially
when custom macros are involved it gets tough. Maintenance costs are
just too high to warrant the effort.

-- 
Zoltan



From jim.vickroy at noaa.gov  Thu Nov 21 13:47:10 2002
From: jim.vickroy at noaa.gov (j vickroy)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:47:10 -0700
Subject: accessing SocketServer Handler exceptions
Message-ID: <arj9ng$2gr$1@mwrns.noaa.gov>

How do I gain access to the exceptions, raised by the handle() procedure in
a BaseRequestHandler object, from the SocketServer object?

Thanks for your help.


Here is a (hopefully) brief code fragment:


import SocketServer

TCP_port    = 1951
TCP_host    = 'this machine'
TCP_address = (TCP_host, TCP_port)


class Message(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
   '''
   The handler for the TCP/IP server that receives messages.
   '''

   expected_message_length = 1024 # bytes

   def handle(self):
      '''
      '''
      message = self.request.recv(1024)
      assert len(message) == self.expected_message_length, \
         'received %d-byte message -- expecting %d bytes' % (len(message),
self.expected_message_length)
      # unpack and queue message


class Server(SocketServer.TCPServer):

    def handle_error(self, request, client_address):
       print 'ERROR:', client_address
       # HOW DO I ACCESS THE EXCEPTION RAISED IN THE HANDLER
       # FROM THIS PROCEDURE?





From ray at rays-web.com  Fri Nov 22 07:43:48 2002
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 04:43:48 -0800
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <3ddd98ad.3250874@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5654fff9.0211220443.ad2f855@posting.google.com>

engsol at teleport.com wrote in message 

<snip a lot of good stuff>

> I too can pick up a programming book, and in a a couple of evenings, do the "simple"
> stuff...like for loops, procedures, etc. But I always seen to hit a leveling off (or
> several) in the learning curve.. I can't seem to progress in the sense of expressing a
> programming task in terms of the current lanquage of interest, until, (and this is a big
> UNTIL) I see a book which explains concepts in a way that makes the light go on.
> 
> One example....I'm a fair C programmer. When C++ became popular, I read the usual books
> "Learn C++ in 10 microseconds", but I never really grasped the concepts of OOP nor
> classes. So I shunned them. Then along came Python..and the light dawned. It wasn't the
> first Python book I read, not the 8th..it was the 9th that broke my personal learning dam.
> Why? Because it explained the process and offered concepts that stuck, and to me, made
> sense.

I agree with the "see the light" idea ... but consider it wasn't "just" the last 
book you read but "everything" you read until you read the last book and the 
"light came on".

I tried 3 or 4 times to learn Python until the "light clicked on". (over a couple
of years).  I have alot of experience with many programming languages over more 
than 10 years ... but for whatever reason I seemed to have a mental block 
learning Python.

Possible reasons:
* I have never used an OOP language to develop large programs. I have read the 
learn C++ in 24 hour type books, understood the concepts of "objects" but 
couldn't bend my mind to "program" (or think) with objects.

* I am used to strongly "typed" languages and it confused me that you could 
seemingly "pull the cat of the bag" at any time and add member variables to 
classes.  C++ teaches you to define the class in minute detail, then implement
your definition.  Python says ... just do whatever you need to get the job done.

I'm still in the early learning stages but the light seems to be on, and from 
here it is just a matter of adding the "meat to the bone"! 

Ray Smith


(I'm sorry for all the bad cliques! - it started with the "light click on" thing
and then I couldn't stop ;] )


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 17 11:37:30 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:37:30 +0000
Subject: Possibly a stupid question regarding Python Classes
References: <3dd7c140$1_6@nopics.sjc>
Message-ID: <3DD7C5CA.E6ADFB67@hotmail.com>

Adonis wrote:
> 
> Is this even possible:
> 
> class Foo:
>     def Bar(self):
>         print 'Foo'
> 
> class Fib(Foo):
>     def Bar(self):
>         # do the original Foo.Bar()
>         # NOTE: w/o needing to instantiate Foo
>         # then do:
>         print 'Bar'
> 

Adonis,

I think you want something like this.

class Fib(Foo):
    def Bar(self):
        # First call the superclass Bar() method
        Foo.Bar(self)
        print 'Bar'

>>> f = Fib()
>>> f.Bar()
Foo
Bar
>>>

If you don't want to hardcode the name of the superclass into your
method definition, you could also write it as follows:

class Fib(Foo):
    def Bar(self):
        self.__class__.__bases__[0].Bar(self)
        print 'Bar'

>>> f = Fib()
>>> f.Bar()
Foo
Bar
>>>

This works fine for single inheritance, but gets more complex when
multiple inheritance is introduced.

Also, I don't know if this approach is still recommended after the
introduction of New Style Classes in python 2.2.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From simon_jester at hush.com  Sun Nov 17 20:01:19 2002
From: simon_jester at hush.com (Simon Jester)
Date: 17 Nov 2002 17:01:19 -0800
Subject: Eric S. Raymond's newest writings
Message-ID: <8a833c43.0211171701.79165f@posting.google.com>

Well... not really... but, here, check this out:

http://www.geocities.com/ezboard_bullshit/esr_large.html

The Jaegermeister must run like water there...


From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Nov 22 13:01:23 2002
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 18:01:23 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <f1S39kKkXotF092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1037919997.26839.python-list@python.org> <093kra.3n3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <arlrdj$1cle$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com>:
...
|         Unfortunately, OO is not a language specific feature... It is a whole 
| philosophy of how to look at a problem.
|
|         While not easily done, one /can/ apply OO to even FORTRAN applications.
|
|
|         I'll admit I tend to have difficulty applying OO to abstract things 
| (like records in a database <G>).
|
|         Much easier to learn by applying to real-world objects. Are you 
| familiar with RPN calculators? (mainly because I don't want hassle with 
| the ugliness of arithmetic/algebraic/algebraic-with-parens processing).
...
|         Or a radio... The basic radio has a tuner and an amplifier. A tuner 
| has frequency as a settable parameter, amplifier has volume setting. 
| Fancier radios may extend the object with balance, FM/AM, frequency 
| band settings, etc.

Sure, but that's just the first O in OOP.  Objects have attributes,
anyone can penetrate this mystery.  The question is, given the initial
statement of a programming problem, like ``turn MIDI data into a
printed score'', where do the objects come from and how do they help?
If your grasp of Python is strongly OO, you'll find answers that you
can explain, but you probably won't be able to explain how you found
them.  We don't think by enumerating facts about the tools we use.

Of course Python is totally mainstream as a procedural OOP language,
and one could argue that it's this way because that is the natural
estate of the ordinary programmer mind.  If so, maybe all it takes
is to open the book and see the Object there, and you're on your way,
as you will naturally recognize the promise of this system of thought.

I think there may actually be something to that, but it's not totally
benign.  We do naturally objectify things, and that has its good and
bad points, but even worse, we definitely all have a weakness for a
system that promises a quick boost.  Pretty soon you're doing the OO
thing by reflex, and it feels like you're really quite the software
engineer now, but the reality is that for any substantial problem there
are way more possible bad OO solutions than good ones, and finding a
good one is not any kind of easy.

The procedural aspect of Python is also natural but not necessarily
benign.  This is basically the linear descendent of assembly language,
with variables for registers and other superficial differences;  the
alternative (or one of them, anyway) is the equational reasoning you
find in functional and logic programming languages.  It's arguably
true that the normal programmer can more easily conceive a procedural
solution to a problem, but it is not true that this solution will
naturally be robust and maintainable.  Structured programming relieved
us of some of the scariest opportunities to go wrong, but subroutines
still tend to be a conceptual spaghetti of state variables, and OOP
can bite here when it adds unsuspected side effects that make it even
harder to reason correctly about what you're looking at.

So the first challenge may be to learn to think in Python, but then
you need to learn to think beyond it.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Nov  5 13:15:18 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:15:18 -0500
Subject: List slice assignment and custom sequences
References: <mailman.1036276862.18969.python-list@python.org> <m2k7jsm7u7.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <hLGdnSSYIucvlVWgXTWcpA@comcast.com>

Ronald Oussoren <oussoren at cistron.nl> writes:

> No, I want to replace part of a sequence by another sequence. I
don't
> understand _why_ the RHS must be a list if the LHS is one.

The immediate, begging-the-question answer is that that is how slice
assignment is defined and hence, how it is programmed.  Lang Ref 6.3:
"If the target is a slicing: The primary expression in the reference
is evaluated. It should yield a mutable sequence object (e.g., a
list). The assigned object should be a sequence object of the same
type."

But why define it so?  Possibly simple pragmatics -- its easiest to
program that way (as per M. Hudson's answer).  The other is the
constant dilemma facing the language definer: if something could be
correct, but could be an error, should the interpreter raise a flag?
or do the 'obvious' thing? -- which in this case is to call list() or
act as if it had been (which would actually be more efficient).  Error
in this case seems unlikely enough that generalization seems
reasonable.

A third answer is inertia.  Python has been moving to a more
generalized notion of sequence and even iterable but slice assignment
got overlooked -- until you gave a push.  We'll see what happens for
2.3.

Terry J. Reedy




From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Mon Nov 11 02:26:42 2002
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:26:42 +1100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <slrnasuojg.l14.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036975636.1147.python-list@python.org> <slrnasuojg.l14.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <200211111826.42738.bhards@bigpond.net.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:50, Robin Munn wrote:
> Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> > I'm certainly amazed at the tolerance people have for questions that are
> > readily answered in a number of on-line tutorials, and in both the Python
> > books that I have (Learning Python and the Python Cookbook). In the end,
> > the friendly attitude may be the killer feature.
>
> Out of curiosity, do you think a response like: "That's covered in the
> Python tutorial -- look at [URL]" will strike a newbie as friendly or
> not? I ask because that's the kind of answer I will tend to write when
> I'm in a hurry. Sometimes I will take the time to phrase the answer in
> my own words, but often I won't want to duplicate the work that someone
> else has already done in writing that tutorial. So if you were a newbie
> getting a curt response like that, would you feel it was a brushoff, or
> would you feel like your question had been answered?

I would feel that my question had been answered (unless, of course, the 
question was phrased as "I've looked at [URL] and I don't understand X").

Whether I thought it "newbie friendly" depends on the exact phrasing. Clearly 
something along the  lines of "RTFM at [URL}, you #$%^!@ idiot" isn't a 
pleasant experience, while your text of "That's covered in the Python 
tutorial -- look at [URL]" is quite friendly. It is also a better use of your 
time to answer questions that aren't covered in tutorials and FAQs, than to 
regurgitate an existing on-line resource.

I am possibly not the best person to ask though. I've written documentation 
for other projects, and I've written the words "This is explained in the 
Linux USB guide. If you still have trouble, please provide more details" or 
equivalent too many times already. So my opinion may not be typical of most 
python beginners. 

I can say that I think the python community is a lot more tolerant and has a 
lot better explanations than most newsgroups/mailing-lists. As an example, 
linux-kernel is a pretty rough place :)

Brad

- -- 
http://linux.conf.au. 22-25Jan2003. Perth, Aust. I'm registered. Are you?
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From gq437x at yahoo.de  Wed Nov 20 06:12:07 2002
From: gq437x at yahoo.de (Volker Apelt)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 12:12:07 +0100
Subject: exception thrown from I/O interrupted by signal
Message-ID: <lgbs4kze9k.fsf@mu.biosolveit.local>

Which exception is thrown from a I/O operation that is 
interrupted by a signal?

Which specification will catch it?

try:
   line = f.readline()
except WhatIsIt, e:
   print e

----- python lib docu
_underline_ added by me.
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-signal.html

7.1 signal -- Set handlers for asynchronous events 
# When a signal arrives during an I/O operation, it is _possible_ that the
I/O operation raises _an_exception_ after the signal handler returns. This
is dependent on the underlying Unix system's semantics regarding
interrupted system calls.  

-- 
Volker Apelt                   




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov 30 20:26:17 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:26:17 -0600
Subject: Python exceptions: is there a way to find the
 exceptionattributes?
In-Reply-To: <3DE94C75.7060406@attglobal.net> (Pierre Rouleau's message of
 "Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:40:37 -0500")
References: <3DE8F629.4080108@attglobal.net>
	<mailman.1038697122.20039.python-list@python.org>
	<3DE94C75.7060406@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <m24r9yr0li.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Pierre" == Pierre Rouleau <pieroul at attglobal.net> writes:


    Pierre> I was looking for a quick way to look at exception
    Pierre> attributes from within my programming environment when i
    Pierre> have to decide what exception i should catch or which one
    Pierre> i should raise and then what information i should pass
    Pierre> inside the exception object.

Within recent interactive python shells (which include pydoc.help by
default), you can do, for example:

  help(Exception)
  help(StandardError)
  help(IOError)
  help(StandardError)
  help(AttributeError)
  help(KeyError)

With some shells (eg, ipython) you can drop the parentheses.  Is this
what you are looking for?

John Hunter



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Nov  6 01:10:02 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 06:10:02 GMT
Subject: Str and instance concatanation error
References: <R_Cx9.11472$t91.80221380@news-text.cableinet.net> <5ts9qa.io3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <aqabnq$mum$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:56:53 -0800, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Newt fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 04 November 2002 03:01 pm:
>
>> 
>> This occurs in a class module (called globals.py). This is used to
>> hold all my global variables, and also has a method (called save_char)
>> to write these to a file.
>>
>        Is it just me, or does the use of the name "globals" strike a chord... 
>Especially since the builtin function globals() already exists to 
>return the global environment as a dictionary.
>
Yes, it does seem like asking for trouble. I was too narrowly focused to notice ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From hope at netlimit.com  Fri Nov  1 03:35:28 2002
From: hope at netlimit.com (hope)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:35:28 +0800
Subject: Protect Python Source
Message-ID: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg>

Hi,

If i am to develop a full fledge commercial application using Python :

a. Can i compile my python source into binary ? I have read about py2exe for
windows. Is there one for Linux ?

b. Can I distribute the bytecode only (.pyo, .pyd) and not the source (.py)
? Can the bytecode be 'de-compiled' to source ?

Please advice.

Cheers,
Peter




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Nov 21 16:00:14 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 22:00:14 +0100
Subject: To GC or not to GC?
References: <3DDD4751.9050807@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <m3bs4ieizl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Kenny Tilton <ktilton at nyc.rr.com> writes:

> 1. Is that doc up to date? I see Mar 2002, not too shabby.

Yes.

> 2. Well, I should almost wait before asking further, but if you'll
> forgive a little lookahead, that "supplements reference counting"
> scares me. Is ref counting history or not? mind you, i understand
> there is a lot of code out there taht must be supported, but for new
> code...?

What do you mean, "for new code"? The reference counting is still
done, for all code. There is no reasonable way to disable it for some
code but leave it active for other code.

There is also nothing wrong with reference counting. If the reference
counter drops to zero, the object is gone before the cyclic garbage
collector is even invoked.

Furthermore, the cyclic GC *relies* upon refcounting. It does not,
itself, collect any memory. Instead, it picks an arbitrary object from
the cycle and asks to clear itself, i.e. to drop all references it may
have to other objects. That breaks the cycle in a single place, and
causes refcounting to unwind all objects in the cycle.

Regards,
Martin



From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Wed Nov 27 23:36:26 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:36:26 +1300
Subject: Implementation of the global statement
References: <8ef9bea6.0211270526.5a1278c5@posting.google.com> <7h3adjvqgs4.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <j4r8d79k76.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3DE59D4A.5090202@something.invalid>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:

> Of course, you can't tell afterwards if a global name was considered
> global because there was no assignment to it, or whether there was a
> global declaration.


You could pick apart the bytecode and find out
which globals are assigned to. But you'd have
to want to know *really* badly before doing
that.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Nov 20 21:26:19 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:26:19 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1036775171.6788.python-list@python.org> <tyf1y5t3a1n.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDBB8BD.6020806@web.de> <h3intucpgk2dg6vhul96pg5epcfva8o8ll@4ax.com> <3DDBE406.6030803@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <ihgotusk6ua2itq5nmob1k6enrkhrao42a@4ax.com>

>It's not in the dust bin, ...

Yes it is. Lisp programmers are like spectres. Howling about the
newsgroups, not knowing they are dead.

>But when I look at why Java and Perl and Python and Ruby are so 
>well-received, I get the feeling evolution is headed for where CL 
>already is. Time will tell.

Even if Python and Ruby have or will have the _capabilities_ that
Lisp has, (Python (will (never (be (lisp))))).

C//



From mwh at python.net  Thu Nov  7 14:06:11 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:06:11 GMT
Subject: power TypeErrors
References: <mailman.1036639269.847.python-list@python.org> <7h3ptthzlf0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <aqe8t4$ffa$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <7h31y5xyzgx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
> 
> > For all my mathematical leanings, I still don't really see the point
> > of having complex numbers native to a language.
> 
> Well, other than the fact that not having them is pretty much a slap in the 
> face of everybody who does scientific computing, I guess it doesn't matter. 
> The fact that C lacks native complex numbers is one of the reasons many hard 
> core numerical computing people still frown upon it (not the only one).

Really?  OK.  I was under the impression that while one used complex
numbers heavily in deriving one algorithms, that when it came to
implementing them they weren't an overwhelmingly helpful abstraction
-- that it was often easier to split things up into arrays
real_values, imag_values or something.  Maybe this is just ignorance,
though.

The fact that Python's cmath module is and has remained so numerically
naive for so long suggests that *it* at least 

> The most trivial numerical problem with _real_ numbers can generate complex 
> numbers in its solution (think any random polynomial root finding problem, or 
> just about any eigenvalue problem you can write). 

Yes, of course.  But there are large domains where they are at best
under the hood, too.  What specific problems involve complex input or
output?  [This is just curiosity, it isn't meant to be a roundabout
way of saying "I think you're talking through your hat"].

> Therefore we *NEEED* good complex number support in any language
> that is going to be taken seriously for scientific computing.  I'm
> not sure what your background is,

Algebraic geometry, mainly, plus a little theoretical physics & number
theory.

> but I can tell you that python is gaining _very_ stronng support in
> scientific computing.

Given what I hear of IDL, this doesn't surprise me :)

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Just put the user directories on a 486 with deadrat7.1 and turn the
  Octane into the afforementioned beer fridge and keep it in your
  office. The lusers won't notice the difference, except that you're
  more cheery during office hours.              -- Pim van Riezen, asr


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sun Nov 24 20:13:40 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 01:13:40 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <mailman.1038097779.22927.python-list@python.org> <yfslm3ibyb7.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <yfsznrya1tn.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> writes:
> would be often quite useful and being able to write
> 
>   for i, elt in seq.items():...
[damn, accidently deleted a line]

... would also have removed much of the need for the new enumerate (2.3) builtin.

alex


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  6 18:29:43 2002
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=E9rez?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:29:43 -0700
Subject: Long overflow problem
References: <bondpaper-55CDDD.13105906112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net> <yu99n0oml9zj.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <bondpaper-7D7F62.16212006112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <aqc8l7$a55$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Tom wrote:


> def myFunc (i, j):
>    for a in range(i, j):
>       print a
> 
> I get the same error. Are there any implicit conversions going on here?

Yes, the problem is that range() doesn't accept longs. You can consider it a 
bug, but it's a feature :)

The quick fix is to do 'for a in range(j-i)' instead, and operate with 'i+a' 
instead. 

Cheers,

f


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Nov 29 04:04:55 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:04:55 +0000
Subject: python 2.2.2 install has unworking IDLE in windows 2000
References: <OCEF9.7352$cx4.1204465@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <u2ZKKiA32y59Ewi8@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <OCEF9.7352$cx4.1204465 at news20.bellglobal.com>, nospam
sumofan <blah at blah.org> writes
>Hey,
>
>I've just installed python 2.2.2 and although the command line interpreter
>works okay, the IDLE gui doesn't even run.  I've loaded this both ways under
>Advanced settings, even checked Task Manager for hung processes.  Nothing.
>Any ideas?  I can't find anything out there about it ;)
>
>TIA
...... I just tries starting idle.pyw from the command line and it came
up fine. I have Python-2.2.2 & Win2k sp3. Which advanced settings are
you using?
-- 
Robin Becker


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Nov 15 09:18:53 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:18:53 +0100
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037319270.11446.python-list@python.org> <c8476101.0211150501.2950b69c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ar2vqq$c4h$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 15 Nov 2002 05:01:48 -0800, arivu at qmaxtest.com (Arivazhagan) wrote:

<less is more>

class Good :
    
    def __init__(self) :
        pass
        
def test():
    A,B,C = Good(),Good(),Good()
    print A
    print B
    print C

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

Regards,
		Anton.


From camhorn at mac.com  Wed Nov 13 17:19:59 2002
From: camhorn at mac.com (Cameron Horn)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:19:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
Message-ID: <6219221.1037225999409.JavaMail.camhorn@mac.com>

 
On Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002, at 02:16PM, David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>On 11/13/02 2:11 PM -0800 Cameron Horn <camhorn at mac.com> wrote:
>>> What I wonder is, why does it need to be a generator?  What's wrong with
>>> def foo(): return ( )
>>> ?
>>
>> You're right if it's a one-time thing.  However, if I've got a
>> scaffolding like this, then it matters.
>>
>> def process_generator(function):
>>    for x in function():
>>       print x
>
>How does the function foo() I defined above fail to work in this 
>scaffolding?

In the "TypeError: iteration over non-sequence" sort of way.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 16:20:36 2002
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:20:36 +0100
Subject: complicated class question
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D03DE1@mail.hebmex.com>
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302D03DE1@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <200211082220.36462.aleaxit@yahoo.com>

On Friday 08 November 2002 22:03, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
   ...
> > So for example you'll have in mysyslib.py:
> >
> > import syslib as true_syslib
> > class a(true_syslib.a):
> >     def foo(self):
> >         print 'bye'
   ...
> But in this case, aren't you substituting the whole syslib
> with your own module, instead of only the definition that
> the OP wishes to change?

Sure!  What OTHER definitions are there in that module?  How
would I know?  The OP didn't even mention the objects coming
from modules, much less anything about the usage of said
modules or any other contents thereof.  If module syslib has
other entries that must be preserved, then mysyslib must
"pass them straight through", e.g. with a "from syslib impot *".


> I thought that 'syslib.a' was only looked up when an instance
> of 'thirdparty.b' was created.  Opinion Alex?

When the code is, as I surmised (the OP didn't mention any
import nor other module use whatsoever):

> import syslib
> class b:
>     def bar(self):
>         ainst = syslib.a()
>         ainst.foo()

then attribute named 'a' is looked up in global variable 'syslib'
of this module, and then called, each time method bar is called
on an instance of b.  If the module uses "from syslib import a"
instead, then the lookup is done when the "from" statement
executes.  In either case, it's possible to change an attribute
of this 'thirdparty' module after the class statement is
executed (and even after class b is instantiated) and before
method bar is called on b instances, and affect what ends up
in ainst -- but without knowing whether module 'thirdparty' uses
statement import or statement from, we can't know whether we
need to rebind thirdparty.syslib or else thirdparty.a.


Alex





From t.j.shapcott at NOSPAMcs.cf.ac.uk  Thu Nov  7 12:04:05 2002
From: t.j.shapcott at NOSPAMcs.cf.ac.uk (Tim Shapcott)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:04:05 -0000
Subject: imaplib.py
Message-ID: <e2xy9.2502$rl.134103@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>

Hi there,

I'm having trouble with the imaplib module. From a particular server, it is
only downloading unread messages. From a different server, it is downloading
all messages, unread or otherwise. Clearly it needs to be able to download
all messages, unread or not.

The server that it _does_ download read messages from is a Solaris machine,
but the one that it _won't_ download unread messages from is, I believe (I'm
not entirely certain) running Novell NetWare :-p .

Has anyone had any experience with this in the past?

Thanks guys

--
Tim



From shippy at nmt.edu  Mon Nov 11 13:51:25 2002
From: shippy at nmt.edu (Jeff Shipman)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:51:25 -0700
Subject: cgi module w/multiple SELECT
Message-ID: <aqott7$20ho$1@newshost.nmt.edu>

I have a SELECT field in my form with the MULTIPLE option
so you can select multiple items out of the list. How can
I extract the list of selections from my SELECT from
FieldStorage?

Thanks.
-- 
Jeff "Shippy" Shipman     E-Mail: shippy at nmt.edu
Computer Science Major    ICQ: 1786493
New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
Homepage: http://www.nmt.edu/~shippy



From d_blade8 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  5 18:03:41 2002
From: d_blade8 at hotmail.com (Lemniscate)
Date: 5 Nov 2002 15:03:41 -0800
Subject: How does Python handle probing to see if a file already exists?
References: <pan.2002.11.05.10.28.55.506357@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7396d2b2.0211051503.39501bc@posting.google.com>

Hi.  Before I start, I posted this sep. but wanted to put it here to. 
Gustavo put some nice work together However, the os.path module has a
ton of tools that you may want to get familiar with currently.  Plus,
there could be "issues" depending on your code.  You need to check if
it is writable AND whether it is a file (not just whether the "path"
exists).  For example, running a directory under G.'s code:

> if os.access("some-filename", os.W_OK):
>    # neat, I can write to the file.
>    ...

will attempt to let you write to a directory like it is a file.  For
example, "Book Source" is a directory on my computer:

>>> os.access('Books Source', os.W_OK)
1
>>> # It's writable, let's try to write to it like a file
>>> file("Books Source", 'w').write("Nothing doing, here's an
error...")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'Books Source'
>>> # so, W_OK is yes, but you can't write to it

So, you see, you *may* need to do some checking.  Maybe as so...

>>> import os
>>> import os.path
>>> Possible_name = "Books Source"
>>> os.access(Possible_name, os.W_OK) and
os.path.isfile(Possible_name)
0
>>> os.access(Possible_name, os.W_OK) and os.path.isdir(Possible_name)
1
>>> # ahh, it's a dir, not a file

Just a couple of ideas so that you don't get stuck.

Chris
"Christopher R. Culver" <Kricxjo.neniuspamajxo at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2002.11.05.10.28.55.506357 at yahoo.com>...
> Hello all,
> 
> I've just begun learning Python after already getting pretty proficient in
> C. However, I'm having a problem with a simple copying program. Ideally,
> the program would check to see if the destination already exists and
> prompt the user. In this this would be as easy as saying:
> 
> probe_destination = fopen(/usr/bin/foo, 'r')
> if (probe_destination)
> {
> some code here;
> }
> 
> However, translating that directly into Python doesn't work because if
> Python can't find a file to open, it doesn't just return 0, it gives an
> error and exits. How can I write this functionality in Python so that it
> returns 0 and continues, or does Python have a totally different way of
> handling this problem than C?
> 
> Christopher Culver


From graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk  Tue Nov  5 08:17:09 2002
From: graham.lee at wadham.ox.ac.uk (Frodo Morris)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:17:09 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
In-Reply-To: <usffc087vtip40@corp.supernews.com>
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <aq8cut$4pr$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <usffc087vtip40@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <aq8g9u$6c7$1@news.ox.ac.uk>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <aq8cut$4pr$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>, Frodo Morris  <""> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> 
>>Beowulfs (although why you'd be using byte-compiled languages in 
>>parallel computing is beyond me), because you could use inetd or similar 
> 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> To catch up with the Javans.
Actually, I just thought of a reason!  No, me miss!  Me!!!
<cough>

How cool would it be to just set up a computer with a listening parrotd 
and DHCP client, plug it in to the Beowulf and have it automagically 
recognised as a node and delegated tasks?
I have been thinking quite a bit about cross-platform Beowulfing 
recently.  My initial idea was to set up an rlogin or something on the 
node machines, and have the Apple (that's what I call the conducting 
machine: "Apple" because it sends Jobs away, does nothing for a while 
then gets Jobs back :-) distribute the source code for the node service 
and job processor, configure and build the code, then log out and use 
the new node as normal.  This would be faster (provided the building 
didn't fall over) as Beowulfs go, but less secure and probably harder to 
set up.
Comments [rational variety preferred]?
-- 
FM



From e_viola at libero.it  Sat Nov 16 12:29:11 2002
From: e_viola at libero.it (bart)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:29:11 GMT
Subject: URLLIB2 EXCEPTION
Message-ID: <3DD6803C.6090008@libero.it>

I use function urllopen to connect to http web page. When resource 
doesn't present in location, urllopen returns exception. The web server, 
in this occasion, generates a page to communicate the error, but urlopen 
doesn't return it.

What can I do to receive error page source code by urlopen?

Thanks ...

                                                       Ennio Viola

italian languagge translate:

Utilizzo la funzione urlopen per connettermi a pagine web. Quando la 
risorsa non esiste, urlopen ritorna un'eccezione e non  il codice 
sorgente della pagina generata dal web server in questi casi.

Come posso fare per recuperare tale  pagina?

Grazie...



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 27 07:50:05 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:50:05 -0600
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
In-Reply-To: <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com> (malik m's message
 of "Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:48:56 GMT")
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk>
	<r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m24ra341oi.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "malik" == malik m <malik_martin at hotmail.com> writes:

    malik> hi yea i messed up here's the code sorry about the html too
    malik> i was using it through hotmail while i learnd and still am
    malik> learning how to use newsgroups....

One more thing to watch out for.  When you posted your code, the lines
were automatically wrapped, making your code unrunnable without
editing.

Now, onto the problem!

You need to convert the raw input to a numeric type, as in 

  md = int(raw_input("Miles driven: "))

raw_input comes back as a string.

John Hunter



From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Wed Nov  6 15:12:34 2002
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 20:12:34 GMT
Subject: Long overflow problem
References: <bondpaper-55CDDD.13105906112002@nnrp02.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnasitlk.1g0.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net>

In article <bondpaper-55CDDD.13105906112002 at nnrp02.earthlink.net>, Tom wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have a function that I'm using, but I need to pass it some values that 
> could range between int and longint values. It looks something like this:
> 
> def myFunc (i, j):
>    do cool stuff...
> 
> 
> If I call the function as such: myFunc(2382373743L, 2382772391L), I get 
> the following error:
> 
> OverflowError: Long int too long to convert to int. 

You're trying to convert a long into an int using the int builtin.

> I can't seem to get myFunc to understand that i and j are long integers.  How
> would I go about doing this?

Don't try to convert it to an int ;-)

For more detailed advice, we need more detailed information. In particular, a
traceback and the relevant code section where the exception occured.
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
OPUS GmbH M?nchen
Tel.: +49 89 - 889 49 7 - 32
http://www.opus-gmbh.net/


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Nov 12 15:41:48 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 21:41:48 +0100
Subject: Q: Name of a arbitary variable as a string?
References: <3DD15E18.F5A8905B@ilt.fhg.de>
Message-ID: <m33cq61pwz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

username <username at ilt.fhg.de> writes:

> I am searching for a function (call it: var_name) that do something like
> this: 
> 
> >>> V="Hello World"
> >>> var_name(V)
> 'V'

Such a function cannot exist. The argument passed to that var_name
function is the object bound to V, i.e. the string object "Hello
World", *not* the variable itself. So you are asking for the name of
an object, not for the name of the variable. Objects, in general,
don't have names in Python.

Regards,
Martin



From stuart at bmsi.com  Mon Nov 11 11:09:29 2002
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:09:29 GMT
Subject: referencing disjoint array indexes
References: <DnNz9.11696$cP3.22276@news.iol.ie>
Message-ID: <ZCQz9.10$T16.4261@news2.east.cox.net>

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:28:19 -0500, Padraig Brady wrote:


> Is there any way you can do something like
> 
> size, mtime = os.stat()[8,6]

def index(seq,il):
    res = [seq[i] for i in il]
    if type(seq) == str:
      return ''.join(res)
    if type(seq) == tuple:
      return tuple(res)
    return res

size, mtime = index(os.stat(),[8,6])

I proposed the very intuitive syntax you suggest earlier in this group,
and was informed that additional semantic overlays to indexing were Not Welcome
- especially when a function does the trick.

However, a pure python implementation of the index function suffers from
having to copy a list to a tuple.  A C version could build the tuple or
string directly - even if still using the function syntax.  In your application,
the improvement would be negligible.

The seq[list] notation is particularly natural to me having used APL once
upon a time.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Nov 18 00:35:30 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:35:30 -0600
Subject: What is the best way to merge two lists?
In-Reply-To: <mr_B9.3807$fY3.387052@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> (Tyler
 Eaves's message of "Mon, 18 Nov 2002 04:57:54 GMT")
References: <mailman.1037577025.1421.python-list@python.org>
	<mr_B9.3807$fY3.387052@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <m27kfb5tjx.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Tyler" == Tyler Eaves <usenet at net.homeip.net> writes:

    Tyler> What exactly is a 'stable' sort?

(hint -- read previous messages in this thread)

John Hunter



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Fri Nov  8 22:34:42 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:34:42 GMT
Subject: Run python scrypt without python ,
References: <fd44b299.0211080045.66477592@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <mn%y9.1942$tW4.231644@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Tomas Krmela wrote:
> i'm need ran my own script on server of my company.
> server is high secured and our root not installed python.
> 
> exist any way to  ran python's script without interpretr
> server is linux

You must have a way to run executables or you couldn't
even run a compiled program.

The python interpreter doesn't have to be installed as root,
nor does it have to be on the path. The executable script
will need an interpreter line like:

#!/wherever/you/put/python/bin/python

which says where to get the python you installed.

If it is not possible to get your site to install Python globally,
you should be able to solve your problem this way.

Cheers,
Terry

-- 
Anansi Spaceworks
http://www.anansispaceworks.com


From gminick at hacker.pl  Thu Nov 28 11:40:04 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:40:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: importing question ?
References: <3de62963$0$214$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <slrnaucv6e.lr.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:35:47 +0100, Jonas Geiregat napisa?(a):
> >>> import classes
> >>> a = veryBigSnake()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
[...]
> and what is the difference between those two ?
Try to find a white paper titled "Idioms and Anti-Idioms in Python".
It was located on py-howto.sourceforge.net, but currently I don't 
see it there.

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 10:18:06 2002
From: dpawson at NEARLYNildram.co.uk (Dave Pawson)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 15:18:06 GMT
Subject: rss.py for win32.
References: <Xns92CF7551B3417DaveP@195.112.4.37> <vdWdndYr6YGgGUKgXTWcpg@comcast.com> <Xns92D07E4887446DaveP@195.112.4.37> <slrnau205j.17d.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Xns92D09BB42782DaveP@195.112.4.37>

OK, this is better ;

http://diveintomark.org/archives/2002/08/13.html#ultraliberal_rss_parser
Works quite happily in win2K environment. Perhaps rather too liberal,
but I guess we are dealing with html in another guise :-)

plus http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/timeoutsocket.py needed.

Tks for the input.

regards DaveP


From grante at visi.com  Wed Nov 20 14:03:03 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 19:03:03 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <zLyC9.17461$nK4.48560@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <areli6$ris$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnatlo5h.r3b.grante@localhost.localdomain> <arg8nn$kr2$0@216.39.172.122> <3ddba9d6$0$4464$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <Xns92CC6C36E20Ckkranabetter@24.71.223.159>
Message-ID: <3ddbdc67$0$22186$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <Xns92CC6C36E20Ckkranabetter at 24.71.223.159>, Kelly wrote:
> grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote in news:3ddba9d6$0$4464$a1866201
> @newsreader.visi.com:
> 
>> time.  If I had a C compiler and knew how to write a simple
>> console app for Win32, it would be easy enough to figure out
>> how it really does work.  The Win32 guys I work with directly
> 
> Borland has a downloadable version of their command line C compiler 
> somewhere on their web site. I used it when I needed a tiny app to change 
> printer ports on Windows 9x machines (extending Pythonwin looked like too 
> much of a chore and I don't have MS VC anymore). 
> 
> I also thought creating a console app would be difficult but it turns out 
> to be easy: you just do standard C stuff (use main() and printf).

Hey!  I do have a copy of Borland C around somewhere.  If I
figure out how to use it to compile a C program under Win32,
you all have to promise not to tell anybody.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Dehydrated EGGS are
                                  at               STREWN across ROULETTE
                               visi.com            TABLES...


From mtiller at ford.com  Wed Nov  6 10:37:15 2002
From: mtiller at ford.com (Michael Tiller)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:37:15 -0500
Subject: Emacs and Indentation
Message-ID: <aqbcvb$6b65@eccws12.dearborn.ford.com>

I'm relatively new to Python.  There are lots of things I like about Python
and I expect to be doing quite a bit of development in the future with it.
The one thing I don't quite understand is how people cope with the fact that
Emacs (at least, my Emacs) doesn't do a very good job of indenting code.  I
have no trouble reading the "unique" indentation scheme of Python, but I
find things get difficult when I'm rearranging code.

Sure, I can type stuff like this:

    if not x in filled:
        foo[x] = x[1]
        bar[x] = x[2]
    y = x

...and Emacs handles this just as I would expect.  BUT, what happens when I
try to put this code into a for loop?  After I add my for loop, I have:

    for x in mylist:
    if not x in filled:
        foo[x] = x[1]
        bar[x] = x[2]
    y = x

In other languages (Tcl, Java, C++) where the block delimiters are explicit,
I can just highlight the region and issue an "indent-region" and it would
automatically indent everything appropriately.  As far as I can tell, this
does nothing in Emacs (v21.4, windows).  So, I have to go and indent using
the TAB key.  The problem there is that Emacs doesn't really understand the
block structure so I get:

    for x in mylist:
        if not x in filled:
            foo[x] = x[1]
            bar[x] = x[2]
            y = x # Yikes!

What I find with Python is that I spend far more time than with other
languages fiddling with the indentation  (and debugging errors caused by
faulty indentation) simply because Emacs cannot automatically indent code
fragments.  Obviously, Emacs cannot automatically determine the indentations
but I'm guessing their are "tricks" that either allow me to hint at what I
intended or some special commands in Python mode that apply some heuristics.

  Surely I can't be the only person who is bugged by this?  Are there ways
around this?

--
Mike





From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 27 17:45:00 2002
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 14:45:00 -0800
Subject: floating point division -- question
References: <as2u3l$ncf6d$5@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de> <slrnau9uvh.1k0.gerhard.haering@haering.opus-gmbh.net> <as31ig$n7lq2$1@ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0211271445.603d07c3@posting.google.com>

William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:<as31ig$n7lq2$1 at ID-99293.news.dfncis.de>...
> Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote:
> > William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >> Some time ago, there was thread discussing adding a floating point division
> >> operator, like //.  Doing 'a//b' is certainly easier than doing 'a/float(b)',
> >> and it doesn't break any existing codes.  Has there been any interest from
> >> the Gods of Python?
> > 
> > Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>> from __future__ import division
> >>>> 3 / 5
>  0.59999999999999998
> >>>> 3 // 5
> > 0
> > 
> > It's been there since the original Python 2.2 release. See
> > http://www.python.org/doc/current/whatsnew/node7.html for details.
> 
> Thanks Gerhard.  Although I would've have switched the two operator, so
> that existing code doesn't change...

But that would be incompatible with divisions that were already
intended to be floating-point.


From grante at visi.com  Tue Nov 26 15:49:43 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 20:49:43 GMT
Subject: Making termios.tcdrain() work with threads?
References: <3de3c3ad$0$22225$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <as0joa$1jsc$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3de3de67$0$4464$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <as0joa$1jsc$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>, Donn Cave wrote:

>| I've noticed that calling termios.tcdrain(fd) (under Unix)
>| blocks all threads instead of just the calling thread.  This is
>| making life a bit difficult for me, so I'm going to take a
>| crack at making it work "right".  Before I try, is there any
>| particular reason why it should behave the way it does now?
> 
> I don't think there could be.  I would guess it's that way
> because someone underestimated the need for it, at least from
> your perspective obviously.

[That's understandible.  These days, few people spend much time
abusing serial ports the way I do...]

OK, the change is simple enough:

    Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
    s = tcdrain(fd);
    Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
       if (s == -1)
           return PyErr_SetFromErrno(TermiosError);


[similar thing done in the other 5 methods]

It works just peachy now.

But, before I submit a patch, I've noticed that TermiosError is
a single, static object (file scope):

    static PyObject *TermiosError;

Is this going to cause problems if multiple threads have to
return errors from the termios methods?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My NOSE is NUMB!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From james.kew at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 17 04:04:03 2002
From: james.kew at btinternet.com (James Kew)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:04:03 -0000
Subject: Windows Nt directory names
References: <mailman.1037518284.21602.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ar7m24$g1jjo$1@ID-71831.news.dfncis.de>

asdfasd asdfasdf (how original) wrote:

>CMD = r'c:\program files\action.exe'
>os.system(CMD)
>how do i code so that the space in "program files" is recognized?

Put double quotes around the executable's path:

os.system(r'"c:\program files\action.exe"')

James




From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Tue Nov 26 10:24:59 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:24:59 -0500
Subject: Newbie IDLE - import issues
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623302F89DF6@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <3DE3924B.3030300@nyc.rr.com>


sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
>>From: Kenny Tilton [mailto:ktilton at nyc.rr.com]
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:10 AM
>>
>>sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
>>
> 
>>>I can only say that this sounds like some module you're
>>>trying to import isn't in your sys.path.
>>
>>no, but I supply the path:
>>
>>   import cells.cell
>>
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh! I *almost* know what's going on...
> 
> 
.....
> 
> does the "cells" directory have a "__init__.py" file, even if
> it's an empty file?  

yes, i had to sneak those in when I tried FROM in the hopes it would 
solve the problem. first it didn't work, then i got those in there and 
 From /did/ work, so I am pretty sure that is all OK.


-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd





From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Fri Nov 22 12:22:38 2002
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:22:38 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <87u1ib6bte.fsf@key.localdomain> <3u3D9.49382$Yw.2293340@news2.tin.it> <874rabdo3t.fsf@key.localdomain> <5r6D9.50977$Yw.2347638@news2.tin.it> <Ui9D9.1536$mr2.53738@news1.west.cox.net> <slrnatqvfe.s0v.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>
Message-ID: <yJtD9.10301$mr2.470766@news1.west.cox.net>

"Gareth McCaughan" <Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com> wrote in message

> >  The interesting thing is that as far as I know, no one has put together
a
> >  module to simulate multiple dispatch. Or if they have, they haven't
pushed
> >  it very hard.
>
> http://www.sff.net/people/neelk/open-source/Multimethod.py

Yeah, I was found this and one other implementation soon after I posted,
then I was promptly informed of a third. I suppose the lesson is google
first post later.

It still seems that people don't miss multimethods, or even just plain
overloaded methods, with the same ferocity as, for instance, curly block
delimiters.

-tim




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Nov 27 02:18:18 2002
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 02:18:18 -0500
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org>
 <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
 <3DE44D27.3030904@something.invalid>
Message-ID: <6GH59kKkXIpD092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|And it doesn't replace reduce at all -- we've yet to see a construct
|proposed to do that (aside from writing it out as an explicit loop).

  reduce = lambda func, seq:
           [(l.append(func(l[i],seq[i])),l[-1])
                           for l in [[init]]
                           for i in range(len(seq))][-1][1]


Now you've seen one :-).

Yours, Lulu...

--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Nov 15 01:01:02 2002
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 01:01:02 -0500
Subject: Supporting older Python versions in py2exe?
References: <isyzubx2.fsf@python.net> <slrnat8ll3.13p.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>
Message-ID: <3DD48D9E.245E5891@engcorp.com>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
> Thomas Heller wrote:
> > I'm currently working on a major new release of py2exe, but I would
> > like to drop support for older Python versions, at least 1.5.2.
> >
> > Myself I'm only using Python 2.2 with it's new killer features;-)
> 
> Me too :-)
> 
> > So, can support be dropped for 1.5.2?
> 
> Yes, and for 2.0.x probably as well. I haven't heard of any Windows
> users using 2.0.x for a long time. I. e. 2.0.x binaries for the
> database modules I build binaries for haven't been requested, yet.
> 2.1.x binares were.

You don't know people who work in industry, I would assume from this 
comment.  We're not, I think, at all unusual and we're still using
Python 2.0.1 for the majority of our stuff, although we are in the
process of migrating to 2.2.2.  This will probably take some months
to do, as we use Python so extensively.  One cannot just stop 
using the one version overnight and have everything working on the
new version the next day.  Among other issues, changes to wxPython
have affected us, and we need more experimentation and testing
with new versions of a number of extension modules to be sure
of their stability with the new version.

On the other hand, I would have no problem at all with Thomas 
removing support for 1.5.2 (obviously), or even 2.0, as we certainly
don't expect new support for an old version.  Thomas, I would say
focus your efforts on improvements with the latest stable version
(and, perhaps, with 2.2 for quite some time, if the PBF succeeds
in making it "the" version for industry) and let others deal with
maintaining older versions, or backporting the improvements, if
they feel it's worth the effort.  You do (more than) enough already.
:-)

-Peter


From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Thu Nov 21 15:30:08 2002
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:30:08 -0800
Subject: "properties" idiom
Message-ID: <E18Ey0I-0006hm-00@snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex, Mike,
Thanks a lot for the replies!

I'm trying out "interfaces" to make well-documented classes:

class MyClassAPI:
      """
      Document MyClass API.
      """
      def meth1(self):
            """
            Document meth1's API
            """
            raise NotImplemented("MyClassAPI.meth1")

class MyClass(MyClassAPI):
    """
    Actual implementation of MyClass.
    """
    def meth1(self):
            # do something real
            pass

... etc ...

I have the feeling this idea was borrowed from another language (Java?),
where accessor methods are the norm.  Creating similar behavior for
properties may be a bit challenging -- especially since this is for Zope, 
which often does things to __getattr__, so it's dangerous to mess with it (I 
have before, but it can get sticky -- you have to make sure to pass the call 
on to the base class's __getattr__ when you're done with it).  Zope 2.5.1 
also requires Python 2.1, so I can't use the property() method Alex 
described, but only the older method (but maybe in a later Zope).

Of course, they can simply be documented in the API's doc string, and/or
be defined with suitable defaults.

So far interfaces seem pretty nice, but I'm not certain whether I'm sold on 
them yet or not.

Cheers,
Terry

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com



From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Sat Nov 23 10:56:50 2002
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:56:50 GMT
Subject: Newbie Q on searching lists
References: <20021123062101.14162.81514.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1038040713.23674.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DDFA5A5.5060302@nyc.rr.com>


Terry Hancock wrote:
> On Friday 22 November 2002 10:21 pm,  Kenny Tilton wrote:
> 
>>The semantics I am coding happen to throw an error if a certain element 
>>is found in a list, so i want to code:
>>
>>    if calculators.index[thisCalculator]:
>>       raise CircularDependency, thisCalculator
> 
> 
> Did you mean this?
> 
> if thisCalculator in calculators:
>         raise CircularDependency(thisCalculator)

sweet. thx. for the heads up on custom exceptions as well. I was faking 
that bit (as you could tell <g>), just wanted to put up a more readable 
example.

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
""Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor,
   and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it.""
                                                   Elwood P. Dowd



From maximum_hops at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Nov 16 16:21:19 2002
From: maximum_hops at yahoo.co.uk (David Marshall)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 13:21:19 -0800
Subject: Formatted Output - Floating Point Numbers
Message-ID: <d8d62a73.0211161321.12603c31@posting.google.com>

Im new to python and I was wondering if anybody could tell me how to
modify the output to only obtaiu 2 decimal places.

the section of my program that needs modification

display.divide(57,7) # I only want 2 decimal places returned

I have a module called display and my function divide() returns the
result of the two numbers divided. However, I only want this number to
two decimal places.

I have tried: round(display.divide(57,7) [,2])
But this results in an error message saying invalid syntax


Any help would be much appreciated


From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Nov 18 15:21:52 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 12:21:52 -0800
Subject: changing the Python grammar ?
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211181221.2eab9db7@posting.google.com>

Browsing on the on-line refencence manual you can find the formal
definition of the Python grammar: http://python.org/doc/current/ref/grammar.txt

It is pretty clear, for instance you see what is a valid identifier:

identifier ::= 
             (letter|"_") (letter | digit | "_")*
  
letter ::= 
             lowercase | uppercase
  
lowercase ::= 
             "a"..."z"
  
uppercase ::= 
             "A"..."Z"
  
digit ::= 
             "0"..."9"

But now a question arise to me: can I modify the grammar ??

Suppose for instance I want to make able Python to recognize identifiers
starting with some funny symbol, say "@". All I must do is to modify
the first line of the grammar as 

identifier ::= 
               ["@"] (letter|"_") (letter | digit | "_")*

In the best of the worlds, I would look for some file in the Python
source distribution containing the grammar, I would change that line, 
and recompiling I would have a new Python able to understand identifiers
starting with "@". Is this possible in practice ?

Notice that I do NOT want to introduce ugly perlish-like identifiers in
Python, I simply want to know how much it is possible to customize the
Python grammar: is this a simple hack or a nightmare ?

I find this possibility (if real) very intriguing, even if I see that
this can be very dangerous.

Reactions ? Comments ? Am I asking a too naive question ? I have no idea
of how the grammar is implemented in the C code in reality.

--
Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Nov 11 12:41:32 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 18:41:32 +0100
Subject: Cyrillic letters in 'Entry' widget
References: <mailman.1037029817.10558.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4smy89f77.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Bobirkhon Ismailov" <bismailov at uzavtoyul.uz> writes:

> I am trying to enter cyrillic letters in text entry widgets, but it
> looks like trash. I was wondering if is there any way to display entered
> characters correctly on screen.

Did you read my reply to your previous message?

>>> import Tkinter
>>> t=Tkinter.Entry()
>>> t.pack()
>>> t.insert(0,u'\N{CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER ZHE}\u0437')
>>> 

works fine for me. What does that give for you?

Regards,
Martin


From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Nov 21 09:34:27 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 06:34:27 -0800
Subject: Teaching numerics with Python
References: <arg9lu$85u$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211210634.ce01e5f@posting.google.com>

Antti Rasila <arasila at pcu.helsinki.fi.invalid> wrote in message news:<arg9lu$85u$1 at oravannahka.helsinki.fi
> ... we would like to  ask, if
> 
> 1) ..someone has experience on this kind of usage of Python numerical
> mathematics? We would be happy to hear from your experiences.
> 
> 2) ..if some course material and ready program files are available,
> which we could use as building blocks of our course?
> 
> 3) ..you have seen a book such as Scientific Computing with Python
> 
> Links:
> 
> Spring 2002 course homepage:
> http://www.math.helsinki.fi/~arasila/nrc02/

Did you look at http://www.python.org/doc/Newbies.html ?
There is a link to the Handbook of the Physics Computing Course
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~sann1276/python/handbook/
which may be of some interests to you.
I am myself not involved in teaching but I would certainly take
Python as language to teach anything to students.

-- 
Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Fri Nov  8 05:46:32 2002
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:46:32 -0000 
Subject: string.strip
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864DCBDAC0@intrepid>

> From:	Duncan Booth [SMTP:duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk]
> Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote: 
> > In article <mailman.1036744990.32317.python-list at python.org>, Stano
> > Paska wrote: 
> 
> >> in documentation: string.strip(s[, chars])
> >> but in real life strip takes only 1 parameter
> >> 
> >> I have python 2.2.2
> > 
> > But you've read the documentation for 2.3. (.../doc/current on
> > python.org). 
> 
> Did you check your answer before posting?
> 
> See
> http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.2/lib/module-string.html#l2h-698
 
Ah, but this is the string *module*. The string method page -
<http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.2/lib/string-methods.html> - looks right. In
fact, they both do.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From see_reply_address at something.invalid  Sun Nov 17 21:30:43 2002
From: see_reply_address at something.invalid (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:30:43 +1300
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org> <PoWcnQjwr8ECy06gXTWc3A@comcast.com> <ANLA9.10384$Yw.422374@news2.tin.it> <3DD3A563.B781BE58@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3DD850D3.8030207@something.invalid>

Alan Kennedy wrote:
 >

> class emptyGenerator:
> 
>     def __init__(self):
>         raise StopIteration()
> 
> def emptyGen():
>     yield emptyGenerator()


This is quite nice, but it's misnamed slightly.
Something called xxxGenerator should be returning
an iterator when you call it, but this isn't.

It would be nicer if it were called Nothing.
Then you could write

   def emptyGen():
      yield Nothing()

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Nov  9 12:30:51 2002
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 09 Nov 2002 11:30:51 -0600
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
In-Reply-To: <lz4raqrf3j.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1036805651.10967.python-list@python.org> 
	<lz4raqrf3j.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
Message-ID: <1036863051.16365.87.camel@dsl-65-184-205-5.telocity.com>

On Sat, 2002-11-09 at 08:29, Johannes Gr?dem wrote:
> > But that's not going to be mainstream.  In a heterogeneous environment
> > both Lisp and Smalltalk have serious issues.
> 
> This is really implementation-specific, not strictly language-
> specific.  There are Common Lisps that integrate well with C.  There
> are even Lisps that let you use inline-assembler and inline-C in your
> Lisp-code.

Certainly -- after thought, I now see why Python's canonical
implementation is very important.  Whatever problems Python has, we all
have them together.  Whatever features and extensions it has, we all
have them together.

Even when you consider all the features available in different
implementations of Lisp -- what would it look like if all of them were
available?  Common Lisp is already a huge hodge-podge of stuff...
there's no minimalism.  Then if you add more implementation-specific
aspects, it can only get worse.  Python manages to introduce features
without such messiness because nothing is implementation-specific (or
everything is).  

  Ian




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov 29 15:57:06 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 29 Nov 2002 21:57:06 +0100
Subject: Embedding Python and built-in types
References: <mailman.1038595960.26200.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3hee0t7q5.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Mickael Putters" <mputters at dreamingprophet.com> writes:

> Is it possible to embed it so that you have control over the simple
> types operators ?

You can overload those operators for user-defined types. For builtin
types, the builtin implementation is used.

> Basically, that you can for example handle yourself the operator =
> for integers (actually, just being notified of it happening is
> enough, since it's to compile some part of the language to
> bytecode).

I assume you are talking about the equality operator here, which is
spelled ==.

When embedding Python, please understand that you have the full
source; Python is free software. So if you want to modify the
implementation of integer comparison: feel free to. It is in
Objects/intobject.c:int_compare.

If you don't want to modify the source, you have to understand that
Python does not implement an equality operator for the int type
(although it does so for other types). For types not implementing ==,
Python uses their compare operation instead, which gives -1/0/1; if
the result is 0, the values are equal.

If you can accept to modify that instead of == operator, then you can
modify, at run time, PyInt_Type.tp_compare. All uses of the compare
function should use this function pointer, so your code should be
called instead of the standard compare implementation.

HTH,
Martin



From lists at battleface.com  Tue Nov 19 18:49:42 2002
From: lists at battleface.com (Alexander Sendzimir)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:49:42 GMT
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com> <pan.2002.11.19.13.54.54.356611@battleface.com> <CWsC9.28249$744.1024358@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.19.22.58.58.67571@battleface.com>

# Alex, the reason I used sre is because I feel it is the right module to use
# with Python 2.2.2. Re is a wrapper. However, my knowledge in this area is
# limited and could stand to be corrected.

# I should have stated in my last post, that if speed is an issue,
# then I might not be coding in Python but rather a language that
# compiles to a real processor and not a virtual machine.

# I will say that what I don't like about the approach you propose is that it
# throws information away. Functionally, it leads to brittle code which is hard
# to maintain and can lead to errors which are very hard to track down if one
# is not familiar with the implementation.

# This now said, yours is definitely a fast approach and under the right
# circumstances would be very useful. In my experience, clear writing takes
# precedence over clever implementation (most of the time). There are
# exceptions.

# As for the code itself, the lastindex method counts groups. If
# there are groups within any of the regular expressions defined, then
# lastindex is non-linear with respect to the intended expressions.
# So, it becomes very difficult to determine which outermost expression
# lastindex refers to. Perhaps you can see the maintenance problems
# arising here?

# The code included here produces the following output:

#	(abcd(cd){1,4})|(abcd)|(abcd(cd)?)|(ab)|(zh192)
#	ab1234 6
#	abcd1234 3
#	abcdcd 1
#	abcdcdcdcd 1
#	zh192 7
#	abcdefghij 3

# I've labelled the groups below for reference.

# (abcd(cd){1,4})|(abcd)|(abcd(cd)?)|(ab)|(zh192)
# 1    2          3      4    5      6    7

# As you can see some expressions are 'identified' by more than one
# group. This is not desirable and is difficult to maintain. If you
# change the grouping in any of the regular expressions, then you have
# some possibly heavy code changes to make down the line. The approach
# you commented on is more generalized and easier to change with required
# adjustments falling into place.

# There might a few other issues. However, I haven't had time to fully
# explore them.

# Thanks, Alex.

#     Alex.  ;-)


import re
import sys

lines = [
	r'ab1234',
	r'abcd1234',
	r'abcdcd',
	r'abcdcdcdcd',
	r'zh192',
	r'abcdefghij' ]

regex_patterns = [
	r'abcd(cd){1,4}',
	r'abcd',
	r'abcd(cd)?',
	r'ab',
	r'zh192' ]


regex_bigpat = '(' + ')|('.join( regex_patterns ) + ')'
print regex_bigpat

regex = re.compile( regex_bigpat )

for line in lines :
	mo = regex.match( line )
	if mo :
		print line, mo.lastindex
	else :
		print line, 'not matched'


sys.exit( 0 );



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Nov  7 06:07:11 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:07:11 +0100
Subject: Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <m27kfsm2x8.fsf@python.net> <aq8qbh$ik0$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1036539728.6381.python-list@python.org> <ZI6y9.77441$aL4.2400685@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1036590550.21817.python-list@python.org> <d6dae77c.0211061427.7191196f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aqdhkk$der$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 6 Nov 2002 14:27:28 -0800, benalan at cs.bu.edu (Ben Wiedermann)
wrote:

>presentation department? What kinds of materials can we (as a
>community) produce to get schools to consider and adopt Python as a
>first programming language? Any other thoughts on Python in the
>university?

Just to repond to the "other thoughts" part: "Combinatorial
Algorithms" by Kreher and Stinson is a fascinating book, and I
regularly use it as a resource for programming algorithms. The
algorithms are notated in a kind of pseudo computer language that is
very easy to convert to python. There is a webpage for the book where
one can download some C sourcecode implementing the algorithms. Seeing
these beautiful algorithms converted to C sends shudders down my
spine.

Starting from these C-sources sometimes but mostly using the pseudo
algorithms in the book I am slowly converting each algorithm in the
book to python. Since this process is driven by the occasions that I
need a specific algorithm it's pace is determined by my progress on
the path of leaning combinatorial algorithms. Sometimes I imagine
however how incredibly good an argument for python the book could
become if the pseudo code would be replaced by python, or, failing
that, if the webpage would also provide python versions of the
algorithms.

AV.




From smcho at softdsp.com  Thu Nov  7 04:05:43 2002
From: smcho at softdsp.com (Sungmi)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 01:05:43 -0800
Subject: C++ Builder + Python ?
Message-ID: <88e56c3a.0211070105.2e285298@posting.google.com>

Where can I get the makefile for Python for C++ Builder(Borland C++)?
Thank you in advance.


From gdemmy at layton-graphics.com  Fri Nov  8 15:22:33 2002
From: gdemmy at layton-graphics.com (George Demmy)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 15:22:33 -0500
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqgka6$t8j$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <aqh2bo$7ti$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <wuu1irhkvq.fsf@hades.layton-graphics.com>

Fernando P?rez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Eddie Corns wrote:
> > 
> > My opinion (the short version anyway) is that because Python is a
> > lot easier to learn and use.  It's a bit like the difference
> > between a point and click camera and a 'real' one - to use a
> > 'real' camera for even a simple photo you need to understand the
> > whole biz.  However, unlike some languages I won't mention, Python
> > does its best to give the max. power (of Scheme,Haskell etc.) for
> > the max. ease of use.
> 
> Flawed analogy, I think. 
> 
> I'd rather say: python is like a modern SLR with full auto modes:
> you can use it like a point'n'shoot, but still get very good results
> and the benefit of good lenses and a sophisticated exposure
> system. But once you move the dial to the 'manual' zone (P,Tv,Av,M
> for the photo-buffs) you are on your own, with as much control as
> you want (from simple adjustments in P to full manual in M).
> 
> So in python the beginner feels comfortable, but he can grow into
> sophisticated things without the tool _ever_ getting in his
> way. That's why the point'n'shoot analogy is bad: in that case, the
> tool gets in your way and limits what you can do.
> 
> If you want, Pascal is the point'n'shoot of programming languages:
> easy for beginners, utterly useless for serious work (yes, I wrote
> tons of pascal back in the day, so I know what I'm talking about).
> 
> Lisp feels more like a viewcamera. You can't get _anything_ done
> unless you understand the fundamentals very well. But if you do,
> there are some very fancy things you can do.

Close... 

Common Lisp is to Python as the Nikon factory is to the D1* ;)

This is lighthearted introspection... not a troll! I use the D1/Python
*much* more often than do I *make* cameras and build systems on top of
CL...

Regards

* D1 is one of Nikon's nifty digital SLRs.
-- 
George Demmy



From abidnego25 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  8 17:29:18 2002
From: abidnego25 at yahoo.com (les)
Date: 8 Nov 2002 14:29:18 -0800
Subject: field names from MySQLdb
Message-ID: <653cf871.0211081429.2b8c69c8@posting.google.com>

Hi,
how do i get field names for a table in MySQLdb?
thanks
(i looked into pydoc MySQLdb but did not find it there)


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Nov 20 14:58:30 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 20:58:30 +0100
Subject: Understanding PyEval_InitThreads
References: <zns43c9y.fsf@python.net> <arfgtg$fhj$1@Fourier.suse.de> <7kf83526.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <m3of8k57yx.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> Storing the thread state in a global variable would be possible, but
> in this case it wouldn't be thread safe, I assume, and *only* work if
> the callout into C is done by my extension module.

On platforms supporting it, you could also save it in a thread-local
variable.

Regards,
Martin



From nem00u at cs.nott.ac.uk  Tue Nov 12 12:10:53 2002
From: nem00u at cs.nott.ac.uk (Neil Madden)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:10:53 +0000
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DD11E7F.C12E708A@man.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <LRaA9.1325$J55.292310@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>

Donal K. Fellows wrote:

<snip interesting discussion, which mostly goes over my head :>

> 
> BTW, how does Parrot handle calls to foreign code?  The docs I've seen are on
> the hazy side, and integration with existing C, C++ and FORTRAN monoliths is
> (alas) all too important in particularly commercial development.
> 

On this particular point; has anyone thought of writing a unified C-API for Tcl, 
Perl, Python, Ruby, (Java) etc? What I mean by this is that each of these 
languages can be extended in C, and quite often are. Also, whenever I see 
interesting new C/C++ libraries implemented, I also tend to see seperate 
language bindings for each of these languages. This seems like a massive 
duplication of effort. Would it be possible to abstract over the C API's of 
these languages to a common core of functionality which all share (e.g. getting 
an interpreter handle, registering a command, setting a variable etc)? I have 
only dealt with Tcl's C interface, so this may be too difficult, but it seems 
like it would be a huge step forward.
In terms of problems implementing this, I can see several problems:
1. Method of calling C-coded procedures. In Tcl, arguments are passed to C 
procedures as Tcl_Obj's. Obviously this would be different for Perl or Python. 
Is it possible to come up with an API which can convert to the appropriate 
object type, or to some intermediate type?
2. Accessing functions which are not present in all languages. I'm sure there 
are API's in Tcl which only make sense with respect to Tcl, and probably the 
same in the other languages. So, how would one create a general API which 
allows you to call language specific APIs? In the same way one handles platform 
specific APIs?
3. Versioning. Which language versions are compatible with which abstract API? I 
can see this one becoming insane over time. However, there are people with much 
more experience with these issues than me, so there might be a way.
4... probably more, this is all coming of the top of my head.

Hmm.. the more I think about this, the more problems it seems to present. I'd 
love to be able to write an extension, and have it instantly work with x 
different langauges. Also, I'd love to be able to use Python and Perl 
extensions from Tcl, without loading seperate interpreters and all that. Am I 
dreaming of an impossible Utopia?

Neil "soo naive" Madden
-- 
package r Tkhtml;package r http;pack [scrollbar .v -o v -co {.h yv}] -s right\
-f y;pack [html .h -ys {.v set}] -f both -e 1;bind .h.x <1> {eval g [.h href %x\
%y]};proc g u {set t [http::geturl $u];.h cl;.h p [http::data $t];http::cleanup\
$t;.h co -base $u};g http://mini.net/tcl/976.html;proc bgerror args {};# NEM :-)


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 06:45:47 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:45:47 +0000
Subject: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <9PvekLArvL49Ewa2@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <pan.2002.11.24.01.35.22.907943 at webone.com.au>, Simon Burton
<simonb at webone.com.au> writes
>Hello,
>
>I just read Guido's "python regret's" slide's from OSCON,
>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=OSCON+%22python+regrets%22
>and one thing i can't work out is,
>he is saying we can do map() and filter() with
>list comprehensions (it's faster too)
>eg.
>
>amapedlist = [ somefunc(x) for x in alist ]
>
>But how would we do a filter with list comprehensions?
>
>
>Simon Burton
all my tests indicate that list comprehensions are not very different
from the equivalent for loop. On the other hand if the function is a
builtin then reduce, map & filter can be much faster.


eg

#######################
from time import time

n = 1000000
N = xrange(n)


t0 = time()
S=[]
a = S.append
for x in N:
        a(str(x))
del S
print 'for loop took %.2f' % (time()-t0)

t0 = time()
S = [str(x) for x in N]
del S
print 'list comprehension took %.2f' % (time()-t0)

t0 = time()
S = map(str,N)
del S
print 'map took %.2f' % (time()-t0)
#######################

I repeatedly get

for loop took 5.81
list comprehension took 8.16
map took 4.23

with 2.2.2 win32 on a 1GHz pentium.

What we really need are more useful builtin functions that can be put
into these faster ways of doing things. 
-- 
Robin Becker


From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Nov  3 17:14:12 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 22:14:12 GMT
Subject: Parsing & question about usages off classes!
References: <docx9.172161$Mf5.8344841@Flipper> <iWcx9.81076$TD1.3676165@news2.tin.it> <0efx9.175905$Mf5.8592441@Flipper>
Message-ID: <Uchx9.67545$aL4.2068088@news1.tin.it>

Frans wrote:
   ...
> I want to create several new list. The name off the new lists will come
> from another list. That way I can create several lists, depending on the
> data received from logfiles. Is that possible ?

(just about) everything is possible, but not everything is helpful.
That's the gist of the "1 Corinthians, 6:12" I mentioned earlier.


> Or isnt that a good idea either ? :)

Exactly.  It's NOT a good idea to create variables with names that
you do not know at the time you're writing your code.  It's _possible_
(because Python doesn't go out of its way to forbid the programmer to
follow suboptimal strategies: rather, Python focuses on simplicity and
regularity), but you're better off doing something else.

For example, consider *dictionaries*.  Why couldn't you use entries
in dictionaries, rather than creating different variables?  After all,
variables are often little more than entries in dictionaries.  By
creating entries in dictionaries, you keep things in your program MUCH
more under your control, avoiding the all-too-likely accidents that
are typically triggered by creating variables with unknown names --
such as accidentally rebinding names you still need for other reasons,
or hitting on a keyword (reserved word) such as e.g. 'print' or 'try'
and having mysterious syntax errors because THAT name isn't allowed.


Alex



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 26 12:59:27 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 17:59:27 GMT
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
References: <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list@python.org> <3de39ce9$0$22220$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <as0cpv$l67$0@216.39.172.122>

On 26 Nov 2002 16:10:17 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:

>In article <mailman.1038322838.8306.python-list at python.org>, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
>
>> Anyway, to each it's own.  But I do concurr with those who
>> say that with the acquisition of list comprehensions, map(),
>> reduce(), filter(), lambda() et-al, should be on the road
>> to deprecation and eventual elimination, being the black
>> un-pythonic sheep of the family.
>
>I see how you use list comprehensions to replace map and
>filter, but I don't understand why list comprehensions are
>touted as a replacement for reduce and lambda.  I use lamba
>almost exclusively to generate anonymous functions that are
>passed to GUI widgets.  How does a list comprehension solve
>that problem?
>
>In the case of reduce:
>
>  sum = reduce(operator.add, valueList)
>
>How is that expressed any better with a list comprension?
>
I don't think better is possible, but worse is (see my other
post in this thread ;-)

BTW, I used id as a sentinel, so it's vulnerable if the input sequence
contains a reference to id. I should really have generated an
internal-to-the-list-comprehension sentinel instead.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jwt at starship.python.net  Thu Nov  7 07:47:20 2002
From: jwt at starship.python.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: 7 Nov 2002 12:47:20 GMT
Subject: ht2html and reStructured text
Message-ID: <slrnasko6l.29d.jwt@twin.dskk.co.jp>

Has anyone merged ht2html and reStructured text?

In addition to the bulk of my pages which are now in the .ht
"html fragment" format, I have a number of documents in
structured text that I would also like to include in a series
of pages.


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Nov 12 18:54:41 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:54:41 -0600
Subject: total and utter newbie
In-Reply-To: <pan.2002.11.12.23.36.32.644986@webmail.co.za> ("rockbox"'s
 message of "Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:35:08 GMT")
References: <pan.2002.11.12.23.36.32.644986@webmail.co.za>
Message-ID: <m2lm3yibsu.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "rockbox" == rockbox  <rockboxb at webmail.co.za> writes:

    rockbox> Hi.  I hope that this is the right group to post this
    rockbox> problem in. If not then I appologise.

Ahh yes, the oldest newbie problem in the book :-)

In current versions of python (as in C and many other programming
languages) an integer divided by an integer returns an integer, so

x = 3/2      #x is 1

but if either number is a floating point number, then the division you
are expecting is used

x = 3.0/2.0  # x = 1.5

The trick is to add a decimal point and a 0 to your number unless you
want integer behavior

x = 3.0/2  # this is also 1.5

This is being phased out of python, and is slated for destruction.

Recent versions of python (2.2?) allow you to use

from __future__ import division

at the beginning of your program to get the division you are
expecting.

See http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0238.html for the official
information about these changes, and how how to do old fashioned
integer division under the new system when you want to.

Have fun!
John Hunter



From joconnor at cybermesa.com  Sun Nov  3 22:52:00 2002
From: joconnor at cybermesa.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 10:52:00 +0700
Subject: Foot in mouth disease
References: <apvive$cfr$1@panix1.panix.com> <3dc52a19.3339913@news.cybermesa.com> <aq3fd3$fv$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20021104.105154.1939964443.1501@cybermesa.com>

In article <aq3fd3$fv$1 at panix1.panix.com>, "Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com>
wrote:


> 
> I'm afraid I was insufficiently clear: I'm looking for people who are
> familiar with using refactoring tools wit

I was more commenting on the line

	"She thinks that those tools are superior to plain text editors (which are really
all that's needed for Python)."


Take care,

-- 
Jay O'Connor
joconnor at cybermesa.com
http://www.r4h.org/r4hsoftware


From kuros at pgtv.net  Fri Nov 15 00:57:33 2002
From: kuros at pgtv.net (Kuros)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 05:57:33 GMT
Subject: Accessing Dictionary values from within the Dictionary
Message-ID: <h10B9.797$v14.274678940@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>

Hi again,

I have created a dictionary, like so:

dict = {var1 : 0, var 2: 0}

Now, i want the third key/value pair to equal the total values of var1 and 
var2. I tried to do it this way:

dict = {var1 : 1, var 2 : 2, var3 : dict[var1] + dict[var2]}

But I get an invalid syntax error.

Could someone help me out with this?

Thanks,
Kuros


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 13 14:46:24 2002
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:46:24 -0600
Subject: Arrays?
In-Reply-To: <3dd2a4fc$0$28317$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> ("e-tones.co.uk"'s
 message of "Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:15:28 -0000")
References: <3dd2a4fc$0$28317$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m2el9p9rsf.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "e-tones" == e-tones co uk <admin at e-tones.co.uk> writes:

    e-tones> Hi all, right... wanted to create an array in my python
    e-tones> program (2 dimensional), but I dont think it can,
    e-tones> o-rather it can, it just doesnt call it an array (damm
    e-tones> stupid thing :p)

A little more information would help.

Is this a 2D array of numbers, strings, objects?  Are all the elements
of the array of the same type?

For lightweight, general purpose 2D array, use a list of lists

x = [ ['Hi', 1], ['Bye', 2] ]
print x[1][1]

For heaviweight, fast 2D numeric arrays, use Numeric (aka numpy)

http://www.pfdubois.com/numpy/

You may find this thread on google.groups helpful:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&frame=right&th=6e8e008dcc5f3dbf&seekm=791h4a%24fp%241%40rzsun02.rrz.uni-hamburg.de#link1


Cheers,
John Hunter



From altis at semi-retired.com  Thu Nov 14 18:32:09 2002
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:32:09 -0800
Subject: Supporting older Python versions in py2exe?
References: <isyzubx2.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <2mWA9.53$7b3.61362@news.uswest.net>

The obvious solution is to let people still using an older Python like 1.5.2
to use an older version of py2exe.

ka

"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message
news:isyzubx2.fsf at python.net...
> I'm currently working on a major new release of py2exe, but I would
> like to drop support for older Python versions, at least 1.5.2.
>
> Myself I'm only using Python 2.2 with it's new killer features;-)
>
> So, can support be dropped for 1.5.2?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Thomas




From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 16 11:19:17 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 16:19:17 GMT
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <ar4rgh$nj2$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ar5r65$uq6$0@216.39.172.122>

On 16 Nov 2002 02:18:41 -0500, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <aqrig4$d2h$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>>
>>Here's a toy example. I just want to make a function that efficiently
>>uses (here just returns) something from a module. 
>
>Can you explain a bit more clearly what the purpose of this?

In a word, optimization.

Both speed and space.

The reason I focused on an item from a module is that typical usage
is to import the relevant module to make a global binding (e.g., globalmodulename)
and then to refer to the desired item  as globalmodulename.desireditem.

This is a fine mechanism when you want dynamic access to the current value of
something that may be getting updated, but if you want the value that was bound at the
time you are executing def myfunction (possibly with a view that the entire presence
of the module was temporary and would not be available for future access via a global
because it was not desired to hold it with a reference anywhere[1], but more likely
because it's just a constant, and you are avoiding magic numbers by referring to an
official definition module that may contain much else you don't need), then you want
to do the dereferencing at define time.

And for speed you don't want to execute the byte codes to do it more than once either,
nor do you want to execute byte codes for conditional setup/use of a cached value.
You want the first and all executions to see a preset binding generated at define time.

mkfoo was one way to do that now, but a simple presets: block would be clearer and handier.

[1] I assumed that it is possible to release all references to an imported module, so that
the garbage collector can eliminate it from memory, but that may have been a bad assumption.
sys.modules seem to get an entry whether you use

    import math
    pi = math.pi
    del math

or

    pi = __import__('math').pi

or even

    privatedir = {}
    exec 'pi = __import__("math").pi' in privatedir
    pi = privatedir['pi']
    del privatedir

Plus, deleting an entry in sys.modules seems risky, since you don't know who else
might be depending on it, even if you checked just before your import.

What does one have to do to "un-import" a module? (I'm talking about a simple case, not an
import with tricky side effects). I can think of a way to launder out references by a
two-pass python execution from the outside using temp files, but yuck.

As an example goal again, how would one do

    pi = __import__('math').pi

and wind up with *exactly* the same net effect as

    pi = 3.1415926535897931

with no math module stuff held by any reference (assume there wasn't any before the __import__).

BTW, the system seems to keep other references than sys.modules:

 [ 6:35] C:\pywk\cal>python -v
 # D:\python22\lib\site.pyc matches D:\python22\lib\site.py
 import site # precompiled from D:\python22\lib\site.pyc
 # D:\python22\lib\os.pyc matches D:\python22\lib\os.py
 import os # precompiled from D:\python22\lib\os.pyc
 import nt # builtin
 # D:\python22\lib\ntpath.pyc matches D:\python22\lib\ntpath.py
 import ntpath # precompiled from D:\python22\lib\ntpath.pyc
 # D:\python22\lib\stat.pyc matches D:\python22\lib\stat.py
 import stat # precompiled from D:\python22\lib\stat.pyc
 # D:\python22\lib\UserDict.pyc matches D:\python22\lib\UserDict.py
 import UserDict # precompiled from D:\python22\lib\UserDict.pyc
 # D:\python22\lib\copy_reg.pyc matches D:\python22\lib\copy_reg.py
 import copy_reg # precompiled from D:\python22\lib\copy_reg.pyc
 # D:\python22\lib\types.pyc matches D:\python22\lib\types.py
 import types # precompiled from D:\python22\lib\types.pyc
 # D:\python22\lib\__future__.pyc matches D:\python22\lib\__future__.py
 import __future__ # precompiled from D:\python22\lib\__future__.pyc
 Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>>
 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.modules.get('math')
 >>> pi = __import__('math').pi
 import math # builtin
 >>> sys.modules.get('math')
 <module 'math' (built-in)>
 >>> del sys.modules['math']
 >>> sys.modules.get('math')
 >>> import math
 import math # previously loaded (math)
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Is there no way to do a private throwaway import?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From rmunn at pobox.com  Sat Nov  9 11:47:36 2002
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 16:47:36 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <7h31y5uyj81.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnasqf9a.mjr.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 at 13:21 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:
> oleg_inconnu at myrealbox.com (Oleg) writes:
>> [ ... ] I couldn't help but
>> wonder why Python is popular, while Common Lisp and Scheme aren't?
> 
> For Common Lisp, at least, my guess is: a bizarre mix of history, bad
> teaching, things that "everyone knows" that are plain wrong, a fright
> reaction on seeing syntax you're not used to[1] and tendency to ignore
> the rest of the world.
[ ... ]
> [1] How many people went "significant indentation! ugh!"?

I think I was weirded out by Python's indentation like just about
everyone else who was coming from something like C -- but I quickly grew
used to it.

Lisp's parentheses, OTOH, I never got used to. Having to constantly stop
and count parentheses to remember where I was in my program structure
quickly went from novel to irritating and never recovered. Most of the
other students in my CS class agreed with me about the Lots of
Irritating Superfluous Parentheses.

The only thing that could make me at all comfortable with using Lisp
would be if I had an editor that would color-highlight not keywords or
strings, as color-highlighting usually goes, but levels of parenthesis
indentation. So that this:

(a (b (c (d e))))

would have 'a' in one color, 'b' in a second, 'c' in a third, and 'd e'
in a fourth.

The prefix notation doesn't bother me overly much, but the parentheses
kill it for me. Of course, this might just be memory from several years
ago...

Nope. Just downloaded the w3 browser and looked at the source. Still
Lots of Parentheses, and still Irritating. I'm willing to grant that
they're not Superfluous, but I still think they're Silly.

So that, in a nutshell, is why I don't like Lisp: the syntax gets in the
way of my scanning the code quickly. Counting parentheses takes far too
long. Whereas with Python I can give the code a once-over with the old
Mark I eyeball and get a pretty good idea of the code structure.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838


From glc at well.com  Tue Nov  5 11:32:07 2002
From: glc at well.com (Greg Chapman)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 16:32:07 GMT
Subject: Regex: Matching characters, but not digits
References: <aq8bvi$2hv$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <vbsfsuo41q73joemljvo0neg5p6m2t1qqu@4ax.com>

On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:06:23 +0100, Thomas Guettler
<zopestoller at thomas-guettler.de> wrote:

>Hi!
>
>\w matches characters and digits. But,
>how can I match only characters?
>
>This should work for unicode, too
>
>  thomas

This should work: [^\W\d_].  That is, match something which is 1) not not a \w,
2) not a digit and 3) not an underscore.

---
Greg Chapman



From goldbb2 at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 13 13:57:38 2002
From: goldbb2 at earthlink.net (Benjamin Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:57:38 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk> <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net> <3DD12795.23E2F02F@man.ac.uk> <3DD1770F.4FEAB063@earthlink.net> <3DD27F67.AA0247FA@man.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DD2A0A2.CB933D95@earthlink.net>

Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> 
> Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
[snip Q: How to do sockets]
> > Just as there are "stdio", "unix", and "win32" ParrotIO layers, one
> > would define a "socket" layer (and maybe an "xti" layer, for the
> > really adventurous).  Obviously, this needs a bit more C code to be
> > added.
> >
> > Once that layer is added, you could read from and write to sockets
> > just like you would from files.
> 
> OK, what sequence of bytecodes would instantiate and invoke those
> layers?  The expositions I've found online so far have been rather too
> dry for me to actually see how such a thing could be done.

Umm, err, I don't know... I've merely looked (briefly) at the docs and
source of Parrot, and never programmed for it.  But <handwave>I'm sure
that it *can* be done</handwave>.

> Donal (fed up of hand-waving, particularly in his day job.  Must write
> code...)

Sorry about the handwaving, but it's the best I can offer.  If it can't
be done now, someone will add it in the future.

> "Windows is a car with square wheels (architecture) and a huge engine
> (hype, etc.), capable of of making the car move despite the square
> wheels.  Linux is a car with round wheels but a small engine, capable
> of making the car go despite the small engine."
>                                      -- John Latham <jtl at cs.man.ac.uk>

I would say that Linux has an equally big engine, but a manual
transmission, which discourages folks who are used to automatic.

-- 
my $n = 2; print +(split //, 'e,4c3H r ktulrnsJ2tPaeh'
."\n1oa! er")[map $n = ($n * 24 + 30) % 31, (42) x 26]


From dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de  Thu Nov 21 08:21:49 2002
From: dvass at felis.uni-freiburg.de (Joerg Woelke)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:21:49 +0100
Subject: safsfsdf
References: <3DDCDA26.7020009@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3DDCDDED.5B32DB36@felis.uni-freiburg.de>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
> This is a test.

failed!
alt.test exists.
 
HTH, J"o!

-- 
sigfault


From jkraska at san.rr.com  Thu Nov 28 15:39:56 2002
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:39:56 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <3de1f902$0$695$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <slrnaua1ab.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyf3cpmylas.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <slrnauavdu.1t0.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <tyfy97ew0o7.fsf@pcitapi22.cern.ch> <3DE666F0.32F64BA6@alcyone.com> <f6scuus406jor5ka1kr7sj80serq7215gd@4ax.com> <3DE67AD1.59C3560D@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <oavcuus0p1j8s09deelieavoh8nrrbrlhn@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:21:37 -0800, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

>ction applies more to Python's indentation
>requirements than to Lisp's parenthesis-matching requirements.  Most
>modern languages -- I dare say nearly all -- have rules about matching
>parentheses (and often brackets and curly braces as well, of course) and
>so practically any language mode in a programmer's editor will match
>Lisp-like parentheses right out of the box.

The standard coding practice in Lisp, and the default in emacs is:

(something
	(something
		(something
			something)))

While simple in this context, as trailing parentheses add up at
various levels and in variable multiplicity, it is difficult to
deal with. In complex expressions, while it is easily discernable
whether or not the parentheses add up, it's quite a bit more difficult
to discern if indendation matches block logic. Emacs, of course,
does this for you. A programmer not using Emacs or a Lisp-aware editor
is much better served by:

(something
	(something
		(something
			something
		)
	)
)

Misfortunately, this is entirely against standard Lisp style. Take
it over to comp.lang.lisp, and ask them.

You're not convincing me in the least, I might add. A decade of
hearing from every corner of the Lisp community that a Lisp-aware
editor is the only way to program Lisp cannot be undone by a lone
voice on usenet.

C//



From mstenner at phy.duke.edu  Wed Nov 20 16:49:27 2002
From: mstenner at phy.duke.edu (Michael Stenner)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:49:27 -0500
Subject: sockets and encryption
In-Reply-To: <6pintugofjalm0sbg1u2g4q91bdonmbupk@4ax.com>; from p.nilsson@xtra.co.nz on Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 06:55:02PM +0100
References: <6pintugofjalm0sbg1u2g4q91bdonmbupk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20021120164927.A13567@phy.duke.edu>

On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 06:55:02PM +0100, Paul Nilsson wrote:
> I'm wondering if anybody knows of an encryption module which allows a
> client/server to set up a SSH type connection. Eg. the server pushes
> over a static publick key and an hourly generated key, the client
> generates a session key and fires this back at the server, then the
> session is encrypted with this key and blowfish (or something
> similar).
> 
> Ideally I'd like to be able to drop these sockets in where I'm using
> the standard socke library now.
> 
> It's not really to difficult to code this up, however I really don't
> want to re-invent the wheel here.

Would SSL work for you?  That's basically made to do exactly what you
describe, no?

					-Michael
-- 
  Michael Stenner                       Office Phone: 919-660-2513
  Duke University, Dept. of Physics       mstenner at phy.duke.edu
  Box 90305, Durham N.C. 27708-0305



From gminick at hacker.pl  Wed Nov 27 11:05:24 2002
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:05:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com> <slrnau9qqg.vsg.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <slrnaua8pf.ld.gminick@hannibal.localdomain>

Dnia Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:53:20 GMT, Robin Munn napisa?(a):
> You could also do this in one step, like:
>     gallonsPerTank = int(raw_input("Enter how many gallons..."))
It of course works, but there's a large amount of situations to think of.

---
import sys
try:
   while 1:
      a = raw_input("Put a digit here: ")
      if not a.isdigit():
         a = raw_input("Put a digit here: ")
      else:
         a = int(a)
         break
except:
   print sys.exc_info()[1]
   sys.exit()

print a
---

Any ideas to make it more reliable ?

-- 
[ ] gminick (at) underground.org.pl  http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/ [ ]
[ "Po prostu lubie poranna samotnosc, bo wtedy kawa smakuje najlepiej." ]


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Nov 26 03:50:35 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:50:35 GMT
Subject: install on AIX
References: <mailman.1038245255.15657.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vBGE9.6593$1r1.259733@newsc.telia.net>

Doug Troupe wrote:

> configure:983: cc_r -o conftest    conftest.c  1>&5
> cc_r: 1501-224 fatal error in /usr/vac/exe/xlcentry:
> signal 11 received

did you try googling for the error message?  the following thread
implies that it's a licensing issue and/or a missing patch:

    http://www.mainframeforum.com/t348952.html

</F>




From oblivious at web.de  Fri Nov 15 11:55:15 2002
From: oblivious at web.de (Dominic)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:55:15 +0100
Subject: Announcement: Python based Sourcecode generator (engineering)
Message-ID: <ar38q2$u1o$01$1@news.t-online.com>

The code generator can be used to produce
signal processing source code for
control/audio/image processing applications
similar to the Matlab/Simulink/Real-Time Workshop.

Currently the templates for the main program
and the operators are written in C interspersed
with embedded Python commands which allows the
code generator to glue the operators together
easily.

The generated source code is twice as fast as
the legacy c++ implementation at our department
for 5 operators. Well and my implementation
is available as open source so you can actually
use it ;-)

By not only using the template system for operators
but also for the main program it is easy to support
various targets. Currently the source includes a
user-space simulation template and one for
Real-Time Linux.

Through the deployed coating technique the source
code can adopt to certain performance requirements
e.g. development, production and still maintain
high performance.

Well, the thesis paper is a good starting point
and documents the generator quite good.
So have a look at it and see if you can use
something for your own projects. :-)

http://www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~hillbr/public/

Ciao,
  Dominic



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Nov 25 18:36:45 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:36:45 -0500
Subject: Issue with new-style classes and operators
References: <3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <hridnc9yVpcaKX-gXTWcpg@comcast.com>

"Jan Decaluwe" <jan at jandecaluwe.com> wrote in message
news:3DE215D1.D9A3FEF9 at jandecaluwe.com...
> Hi:
>
> I'm confused by the following behavior of new-style classes
> and operators:

I think you have a right to be.

>
>     class MyInt(object):
>         def __init__(self, val):
>             self.val = val
>         def __getattr__(self, attr):
>             return getattr(self.val, attr)

> >>> a = MyInt(3)
> >>> a.__add__(4)
> 7

This works because '__add__' is seen as just an attribute name,
nothing special, which is resolved because of __gettattr__ booting
attribute lookup to self.val.  As far as the interpreter is concerned,
this might as well have been a.whatever(4).

> >>> a + 4
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: unsupported operand types for +: 'MyInt' and 'int'

Lookup of special methods invoked by syntax other than explicit
instance.attr appears to have been changed for new classes by stopping
the lookup process before calling __getattr__.

This appears to contradict the current new-class doc at
http://python.org/2.2/descrintro.html

"Note that while in general operator overloading works just as for
classic classes, there are some differences. "

Which are...?

"(The biggest one is the lack of support for __coerce__; new-style
classes should always use the new-style numeric API, which passes the
other operand uncoerced to the __add__ and __radd__ methods, etc.) "

what else?  but then

"There's a new way of overriding attribute access.  The __getattr__
hook, if defined, works the same way as it does for classic classes:
it is only called if the regular way of searching for the attribute
doesn't find it.  But you can now also override __getattribute__, a
new operation that is called for *all* attribute references."

But you found a difference in __getattr__.  Contrary to inplication of
doc, __getattribute__ is also not called for a+4.  (Not a big loss
since attempt to access any attribute, including .__dict__, causes
infinite loop.)  I opened sf bug report 643841.

>I don't think is can be the intention. Or can it?

Beats me.  We'll see.

Terry J. Reedy




From BrenBarn at aol.com  Thu Nov 21 11:31:35 2002
From: BrenBarn at aol.com (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: 21 Nov 2002 16:31:35 GMT
Subject: Problem with list assignment
References: <mailman.1037892569.8801.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns92CD5566D1527OKB@128.111.24.42>

Jesse Lawrence wrote:

>    i = 0;
>    for r in row:
>       header[i] = r[0]
>       i = i + 1
>    return header
> 
> Now, when I just do a print r[0] in the for loop, I'm
> getting exactly what I want, it's just that when I try
> to assign it to header, that I get a "list assignment
> index out of range" error.
> 
> Am I overlooking something?

    	It's not legal to assign to an element that doesn't already exist 
in the list.  Your list has no elements, so it's not legal to assign to 
any index.  What you want is:

for r in row:
    	header.append(r[0])

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From goldbb2 at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 11 12:55:18 2002
From: goldbb2 at earthlink.net (Benjamin Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:55:18 -0500
Subject: A vision for Parrot
References: <20021105221004.339206f3.occitan@esperanto.org> <3DCFCC3E.204D9B45@man.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3DCFEF06.9E74A794@earthlink.net>

Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> 
> Daniel Pfeiffer wrote:
> > this morning it struck me that it would be nice to have Parrot not
> > only run Perl 6 and similar byte code, but that any of the common
> > interpreted languages be compiled to this same byte code.
> >
> > Then no matter whether running a Perl 6, Python, Ruby, Tcl maybe
> > even bash script the same interpreter library would be used.  Then
> > likely it would already be in memory speeding up start time.
> 
> A common bytecode that Perl, Python, Ruby and Tcl would all compile
> to?  Hmm. Scary, and for several reasons.  Firstly, I'm not at all
> convinced that the object models are compatible enough.

If you were writing a VM for one language, and then tried to extend it
for the others, then I would agree wholeheartedly.  However, it's no
more strange than using MSIL for C++ and VB and other languages.

> And secondly, how are you going to avoid requiring a resident
> interpreter/compiler to handle the case where you've got
> dynamic code coming from a source that doesn't generate parrot
> bytecodes directly (e.g. a normal programmer^Wperson!)

In all cases that I can think of, your dynamic code is essentially a
string which gets eval()ed (with a language-dependent eval).  The
solution is to make the eval() function/operator compile into a sequence
of operations along the lines of: Load the compiler for this language,
(if it's not already loaded), pass that string to the compiler, run the
generated bytecode.

> After that, there's worrying about security models to do as well.  ;^)
> 
> One way forward, at least with Tcl, would be to implement a Tcl
> interpreter in terms of parrot bytecodes (rather like Jacl is a Tcl
> interp written in Java)

Considering that Jcl and Jython exist, it seems like a reasonable goal
would be to make an interpreter which turns Java's .class files into
Parrot .pasm files.  Once that tool exists, one could simply translate
Jcl and Jython into parrot... there would be no need to re-implement
them.

And one day, in the distant future, there will be a Perl6 decompiler,
which will turn Parrot bytecode into Perl6.  Then we'll be able to
convert the translated Jython and Jcl into Perl6 :)

> but that tends to bring out questions like "why bother?"  Could it be
> done without requiring a chunky auxiliary C library to provide little
> things like cross-platform select() support?

No matter *what* language you're using, some sort of interface to select
or poll will be needed, and that interface would be implemented in C.

Whether it's "chunky" or not depends on how that interface appears on
the high-level end of things.

> This sort of thing tends to make me suspicious that this is little
> more than a pipe-dream, well, at least as far as Tcl's concerned.  (I
> don't know the other languages nearly well enough to comment in a
> useful way.)
> 
> Alternatively, formulate Parrot as a sort-of disjoint union of the
> bytecodes used in each language, so unifying them without unifying
> anything.  >:^D

The set of bytecodes which Parrot will be using has been decided, and
while it's not fixed in stone, it's quite unlikely to get a whole other
language's bytecodes added to it.

Assuming you thouroughly understand Tcl's bytecodes, why not take a look
at Parrot, and see whether the set of bytecodes that parrot supports is
sufficient to do everything that Tcl's bytecodes do?

-- 
my $n = 2; print +(split //, 'e,4c3H r ktulrnsJ2tPaeh'
."\n1oa! er")[map $n = ($n * 24 + 30) % 31, (42) x 26]


From werner.merkl at fujitsu-siemens.de  Fri Nov 29 03:34:52 2002
From: werner.merkl at fujitsu-siemens.de (Werner Merkl)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:34:52 +0100
Subject: Bug in win32file.FindFilesW ?
References: <as4s2i$920$1@dackel.pdb.sbs.de> <ZRvF9.25390$hg1.68955@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <as78rc$c87$1@dackel.pdb.sbs.de>

Mark,

first of all thank you for you quick response.

"Mark Hammond" <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message
news:ZRvF9.25390$hg1.68955 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Werner Merkl wrote:
> >
> >>>>f.FindFilesW(dir)
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> > UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
>
> You will find that this is simply the error from *printing* the result,
> not from the operation.
>
> l = f.FindFilesW(dir)
>
> should work fine, and each element of 'l' should have a unicode
> character - but attempting to print ones with Unicode characters may fail.

ehm... I get the same error. It seems to be an error INSIDE win32file...

[d:\projects\test\findfilew]python test.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 7, in ?
    l = f.FindFilesW(dir)
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

This was on a Windows 2000 German.

> > !!!! BTW: ">>> f.SetCurrentDirectory(dir)" brings also an ERROR!!!!
>
> What error?
Because  I'm not sure, whether german is well known language here
I ran the same program on an XP Professional English:

[A]python
Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> ^Z


[A]python test.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 7, in ?
    l = f.FindFilesW(dir)
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

###
### Following is the result with line 7 commented out
###
[A]python test.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 9, in ?
    f.SetCurrentDirectory(dir)
pywintypes.error: (123, 'SetCurrentDirectory', 'The filename, directory
name, or volume label syntax is incorrect.')

Again, thank you in advance
Werner


test.py:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
dir = u'\u03b1\u03b2\u03b3.DIR'
import win32file as f
f.CreateDirectoryW(dir, None)
from os.path import join as j
f.CreateFileW(j(dir,'1'),0,0,None,f.CREATE_NEW,0,None)
f.CreateFileW(j(dir,'2'),0,0,None,f.CREATE_NEW,0,None)
l = f.FindFilesW(dir)

f.SetCurrentDirectory(dir)




From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Wed Nov 13 04:33:52 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 09:33:52 GMT
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
References: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122> <3DD1AB92.3030409@something.invalid> <aqt5h1$7d1$1@serv.vrn.ru>
Message-ID: <slrnat4740.3qt.gerhard.haering@lilith.my-fqdn.de>

Lexy Zhitenev wrote in comp.lang.python:
> "Greg Ewing" <see_reply_address at something.invalid> wrote:
>> ... Maybe
>>
>>     def foo():
>>        const m = math
>>        return m.pi
>>
>> The "const" statement would be evaluated when
>> the "def" was executed, and "m" would appear in the
>> local namespace when the function was called.
>>
>> Although "const" might not be the best name for
>> it, since it's not really a constant, more like
>> a local with an initial value.
>>
> 
> What is this 'const' name? I haven't ever heard of this in Python.

It doesn't exist. Greg was talking about a possible language
extension.

-- Gerhard


From xucs007 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  1 02:25:45 2002
From: xucs007 at yahoo.com (Xu, C.S.)
Date: 31 Oct 2002 23:25:45 -0800
Subject: how to use smtp starttls() encryption?
References: <8f41cfd.0210101719.ad47c7@posting.google.com> <m3fzvdmsa1.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <8f41cfd.0210120805.6ced204a@posting.google.com> <m31y6vl1p0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <8f41cfd.0210162236.3e5c970a@posting.google.com> <mailman.1034855185.30941.python-list@python.org> <8f41cfd.0210211030.33365530@posting.google.com> <mailman.1035237156.20658.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8f41cfd.0210312325.7ab7969f@posting.google.com>

I did download the openssl-0.9.6g and compiled/installed, and I found
mandrake 9.0 already use openssl-0.9.6g; but the python 2.2.2
I downloaded, after compiling still shows it used 0.9.5 ssl.
Exact same error when I tried to use python 2.2.2 to send out
emails.

Now I've setup an temp. email account for you guys to help me
out, see whether you can use this account send emails first:
Email: 			testpythonsmtp at offleasecomputer.net
Password:		starttls
pop3/smtp server:	mail.offleasecomputer.net

Thanks again.


> Your Python was built without SSL support. Install the OpenSSL
> development libraries and recompile Python.
> 
> Btw. OpenSSL/0.9.5beta is *seriously* outdated. There were
> vulnerabilites in various 0.9.6 versions - I don't know if they existed
> in 0.9.5 already, but consider upgrading to the latest OpenSSL, too.
> 
> Maybe Python *needs* 0.9.6 to build with SSL support - that's yet
> another reason to upgrade OpenSSL.
> 
> -- Gerhard


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Sat Nov 23 21:37:46 2002
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 21:37:46 -0500
Subject: RELEASED: Pymacs 0.20
Message-ID: <oqel9bn151.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

Hello to everybody, and especially to Emacs users among Python lovers.

The day after Pymacs 0.19 was released, I found that Pymacs interferes with
the Emacs interactive documentation system.  Despite the problem shows only
in unusual circumstances -- adviced functions, functions using a mere symbol
for their body -- I do not want that bug in released Pymacs.  I waited a bit
just in case some other bug shows.  After one week, since none want to get
out, better have another release out now.  So here it is!  :-)

--------------------

Pymacs is a powerful tool which, once started from Emacs, allows both-way
communication between Emacs Lisp and Python.  Pymacs aims Python as an
extension language for Emacs rather than the other way around, and this
assymetry is reflected in some design choices.  Within Emacs Lisp code, one
may load and use Python modules.  Python functions may themselves use Emacs
services, and handle Emacs Lisp objects kept in Emacs Lisp space.

`http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard/pymacs/' contains a copy of the
Pymacs documentation in HTML form.  The canonical Pymacs distribution is
available as `http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard/pymacs/Pymacs.tar.gz'.
Report problems and suggestions to `mailto:pinard at iro.umontreal.ca'.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From brian_l at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  1 02:33:14 2002
From: brian_l at yahoo.com (Brian Lenihan)
Date: 31 Oct 2002 23:33:14 -0800
Subject: Successfully Compiling 2.2.2 w/Tkinter under OS X
References: <mailman.1035931651.4263.python-list@python.org> <m2hef28vzs.fsf@python.net> <mailman.1036097407.20112.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <afe3b146.0210312333.70e712dd@posting.google.com>

Tim Jones <tjones at tolisgroup.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1036097407.20112.python-list at python.org>...
> Actually, it's AquaTK with tcl/tk 8.4.1 in Aqua mode (tcl/tk apps from 
> my Solaris and Linux systems work okay with the built version). 
> macpython-sig answers were to use macpython.  Unfortunately, this only 
> provide Tkinter support under Classic, not OS X.
> 
> Queries to other Mac and OS X oriented lists have resulted in silence. 
> I'm sure that someone has gotten Python and Tkinter working under Aqua 
> on OS X.

You have a couple choices:

1) Use 2.3a0 from CVS.  It works with AquaTk as-is.
2) Cut and paste the relevant portion of setup.py from 2.3.a0 into
the setup.py of 2.2.2.  The part you need is in detect_tkinter_darwin()

8.4.1 seems to have fixed most of the obvious OS X problems.


From gabor at realtime.sk  Tue Nov 12 13:30:44 2002
From: gabor at realtime.sk (gabor)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 19:30:44 +0100
Subject: Optimisation problem
In-Reply-To: <7h3heem23ju.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <mailman.1037087175.5506.python-list@python.org>
	 <aqr28o$4om$1@news.hccnet.nl>  <7h3heem23ju.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1037125844.10171.14.camel@wintermute.atriaky.sk>

On Tue, 2002-11-12 at 16:50, Michael Hudson wrote:
> anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:
> > m,x,y,z = self.matrix,self.x,self.y,self.z
> > 
> > This is faster
> 
> Don't be so sure: this creates a tuple.
> 
> 
this is interesting....

you're saying that for example

x,y = 2,4 

creates a tuple?

i thought thatr x,y=2,4 is the same as x=2;y=4

bye,
gabor




From malik_martin at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 27 16:36:50 2002
From: malik_martin at hotmail.com (malik m)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:36:50 GMT
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com> <mhc3sa.7q3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <vheauu8e2tl34jdp9uct3uncmj6qlls5qi@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:13:26 -0800, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:


>
>        This looks like a homework assignment, and I'm probably going to 
>violate conventions (don't do their homework). Of course, by the time 
>my message shows up, you'll have seen all the line-by-line critiques.
>
>,----[ /home/wulfraed/t.py ]
>| import string       # probably not needed in the newest versions of 
>Python


what version of python are you using?


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 29 06:22:35 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:22:35 +0000
Subject: mod_python
References: <Xns92D510D3250B7bokuwatetsuo@207.217.77.26>
Message-ID: <3DE74DFB.47FC054@hotmail.com>

Tetsuo wrote:
> 
> I figured out how to get mod_python to work, at last, but I ran into a
> problem that seems to be fairly common (the solution is harder to find,
> though). Any code inserted into mptest.py works great. But when I make
> another file in the same directory, the last thing that was in mptest goes
> into that file, even if mptest doesn't exist any more. Must be browser
> cache or something... Well, I have no idea, since it's a different file.
> Does Apache have a cache, too? I have heard that some mistake in the
> configuration can make Apache keep referring to mptest. But I can't find
> how to fix it...

Tetsuo,

When you working with embedded interpreters, sometimes you will get
behaviour that you don't expect, i.e. running code that you've deleted,
if the interpreter is not stopped and restarted. The embedded
interpreter may still have a copy of some code, even though you may have
deleted the file that contains the code.

If you see any behaviour you don't expect with mod_python, I highly
recommend that you restart the apache server that contains it.

If you're using windows, there should be a "Restart Apache" option in
the Apache "program group" on the Start Menu.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From deltapigz at telocity.com  Tue Nov 12 17:11:51 2002
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:11:51 -0500
Subject: Interesting Article (concerns python)
Message-ID: <3dd17ca2_1@nopics.sjc>

I am pretty sure you all know about this project by now.
The PIM software being developed by OSA
uses: Python+ZODB+wxPython+Jabber+RDF

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/biztech/11/12/outlookchallenger.ap/index.html
http://iu.berkeley.edu/rdhyee/discuss/msgReader$644

Could put Python on the map in a big way.. I think.
Python finally reaching onto the masses.

Adonis




From bokr at oz.net  Sat Nov 16 15:04:57 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Nov 2002 20:04:57 GMT
Subject: quick question
References: <mailman.1037458463.20139.python-list@python.org> <20021116120631.08993.00000062@mb-fo.aol.com>
Message-ID: <ar68d9$2n8$0@216.39.172.122>

On 16 Nov 2002 17:06:31 GMT, bwfc10 at aol.com (Bwfc10) wrote:

>Thank you for your help, it isn't
>homework but whats wrong with 
>me asking on here when i do get homework?

Nothing, if you say that's what you are doing.
But someone else exercising is not going to help your muscles,
and someone else practicing is not going to help your skills ;-)

The purpose of homework is to ensure that *you* have the ability
to create the end result, not just deliver it.

Of course, motivating others to do things is a valuable skill too.
If you have natural talent for leading and motivating others to
deliver the goods, you may be able to contribute most to the world
by honing and using that skill (humanely one hopes).

But you probably won't be posting here for homework on that ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Nov 10 10:29:11 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Nov 2002 15:29:11 GMT
Subject: indexed looping, functional replacement?
References: <3fe406f0.0211091037.2795e538@posting.google.com> <9Xcz9.15450$XO.672555@news2.tin.it> <aqkd4m$qed$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <aql2r0$q2g$0@216.39.172.122> <eDqz9.17073$XO.784552@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aqlu07$cqm$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:34:50 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>    ...
>> also a lazy zip, to avoid building lists you don't use (untested beyond
>> what you see ;-)
>> 
>>  >>> from __future__ import generators
>>  >>> def xzip(*args):
>>  ...     for i in xrange(min(map(len,args))):
>>  ...         yield tuple([x[i] for x in args])
>>  ...
>>  >>> for f,s in xzip(fl,sl):
>>  ...     f(s)
>>  ...
>>  f1: bbb
>>  f2: sdf
>>  f3: sdw
>
>I think that xzip can be simplified a bit -- as code, the for
>statement is threateningly complex, and the tupleization of the
>yielded sublists just a bit of conceptual and runtime overhead,
>for most practical purposes.  So, I might code it, instead:
>
>def xzip(*args):
>    iters = map(iter, args)
>    while True:
>        yield [x.next() for x in iters]
>
Very nice.

>the key idea here is that the first iterator to run out will
>let the fact be known by raising StopIteration, and xzip just
>lets that exception propagate, thus in turn letting its caller
>know that xzip has also run out of items to iterate on.
>
>
>Of course, the semantics are slightly different.  The original
>xzip needs arguments that are sequences (i.e., can be passed to
>'len', and indexed by integers 0 and up), while this simpler one
>accepts arguments that are iterable (can be subjected to iter).
>All sequences are iterable, but not vice versa (file objects open
>for reading, for example, are iterable, but not sequences).
>
>So, for example, this simpler xzip could be used to print out
>a textfile's lines with numbering:
>
>for line, linenumber in xzip(open('the.txt'), xrange(sys.maxint)):
>    print '%d: %s' % (linenumber, line),
>
>while the original would die with a TypeError if used in this
>way (the file object can be iterated on, but not indexed, nor
>can it be passed as the argument to built-in 'len').  However,
>it seems to me that the simpler xzip's greater generality is
>not a substantial problem -- simplicity IS nice to have.
>
Yes, lovely.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From mwh at python.net  Mon Nov 11 05:03:22 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:03:22 GMT
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjku8$njc$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <3DCE003C.9080505@mindspring.com> <aqlntp$66p$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <gknmqa.hc4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <aqn83f$gou$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7h3lm402zq5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> writes:

> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> >        As I recall, they also derive from the hardware that LISP was first 
> > implemented on -- C)ontents A)ddress R)egister, and C)ontents D)ata 
> > R)egister (or some variation thereof). Something to the effect that the 
> > original machine storage unit (words) effectively held two pointers, 
> > accessed as address and data...
> 
> 
> Which is kind of funny.  You'd expect the Data Register to point to
> the nth item in the list, and Address Register to point to the next
> cons cell.  But the reverse is true.

I think the d in cdr stands (stood) for decrement, not data.  But the
web seems confused on the issue.  It just means "second half of cons
cell" to me...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
40. There are two ways to write error-free programs; only the third
    one works.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html


From treworn at cyberspace.org  Tue Nov  5 18:27:27 2002
From: treworn at cyberspace.org (trewornan)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 23:27:27 +0000
Subject: loggin out automatically
References: <1036253358.19897.0@doris.uk.clara.net> <PYgtuoA9YVx9EwVx@lampsacos.demon.co.uk> <usdc39rpvohtd5@corp.supernews.com> <3DC718BE.7060706@cyberspace.org> <usea4eqqgbrped@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3DC853DF.6060509@cyberspace.org>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
> 
> Say again what you want:  is it automatically to limit
> one particular user to a fixed session length?  Do you
> have a collection of users you want to limit?  Do you
> want to intervene before each action, or have them hap-
> pen automatically?  Are the users logging in through
> telnetd, sshd, ...?  Are they X consumers?  Precise 
> understanding might reveal that this is less convoluted
> than it currently appears.


I am responsible for maintaining a PC in a hotel which is available for 
use of guests, basically just e-mail and web browsing. We are currently 
using a program called "timewatcher" which allows me to provide "access 
codes" each code providing a particular period of access - 20, 30, 60 
min or whatever. Because we have had some security problems I was 
considering changing this computer to linux (probably red  hat 7.3) so I 
could secure the important parts of the system from the users.

Obviously some equivalent of the access software we are using would be 
required and my first thought was to apply a bit of Python by adding it 
to the 'rc' file for say 20 new users. It seemed to me if I could get 
Python to log a user out automatically then the rest could be cobbled 
together one way or another, without getting into anything too heavy?

I begin to suspect this might be beyond my capabilities.

M



From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Nov 16 14:46:56 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:46:56 GMT
Subject: Insanely simple problem somehow appears impossible
References: <RdwB9.884$Nb5.250778@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>
Message-ID: <QgxB9.18105$744.647072@news1.tin.it>

ebe wrote:

> I am using the win32 extensions to implement a simple message loop. What I
> want to do is respond to messages if they are incoming, but process an
> application update function if there are no messages.

You can pattern a solution for this based on the code you'll find at:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/82236


Alex



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Nov 22 17:43:14 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:43:14 GMT
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <mailman.1036959914.4995.python-list@python.org> <B9F43B74.17785%pereira@cis.upenn.edu> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <mailman.1037993694.2261.python-list@python.org> <arm9oa$but$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <6qyD9.60432$Yw.2729711@news2.tin.it>

Pascal Costanza wrote:
   ...
> (All the scripting languages I have seen so far rely on C for the hairy
> stuff - and I definitely don't like that. There should be some
> alternative.)

There is.  Jython, www.jython.org, is an implementation of the Python 
language in and for Java -- complete, working, and quite solid.  Vyper, 
vyper.sf.net, was a similar project to implement a new dialect of Python in 
O'Caml (now the project is marked as "no longer active").  Python.NET was a 
similar (research) project to implement Python in C#, also now finished.

Of these, I would only suggest Jython as feasible for production work today.  
But surely if a third production-level implementation could be added to 
Classic Python and Jython, this *would* be quite a significant and 
meaningful accomplishment.

It's probably important to identify the motivations that would convince 
somebody to use the hypothetical "LisPython" rather than Common Lisp, 
Classic Python, or Jython; having a clear target in mind can ease many
design choices later on.  What are your ideas in the matter?


Alex



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Nov  1 17:15:33 2002
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: 01 Nov 2002 23:15:33 +0100
Subject: HTTP 1.0 or 1.1 ?
References: <mailman.1036186802.23239.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m33cqllywq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"A" <printers at sendme.cz> writes:

>  HTTP/1.1 200OK 

Without further checking, I expect it is choking on the missing space
between the 200 and the OK, which is required by the RFC.

Regards,
Martin



From bkc at Murkworks.com  Thu Nov  7 11:56:39 2002
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:56:39 -0500
Subject: "Universal Gateway"
References: <apkc4c$d5s$2@pith.uoregon.edu> <n0oxjc6f.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Rejw9.22645$jE1.72970@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <1y63gc02.fsf@morpheus.demon.co.uk> <Y_Nx9.14995$5u4.46256@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <heewyxlc.fsf@ion-tof.com> <ursy9.23689$5u4.72621@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <fzud3760.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <3dca986a$1_5@goliath.newsgroups.com>

"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message
news:fzud3760.fsf at python.net...

> Maybe calling custom COM interfaces is the first hole this module can
> fill up.
>

But wait, there's more!

Last year while porting Python 2.2 to the Pocket PC platform, I snuck some
utility functions into win32gui that supported packing/unpacking dword
values from windows message structures.. These functions were then used in a
Win32CC (Common Controls) package that I started to assemble. That package
included a structure access module somewhat similar to, but not as good as,
yours.

I've downloaded your current source release and I am planning to use your
structure access stuff to build better win32 common control classes so
win32gui users can get at ListView and other goodies.

This should work on desktop win32 and Windows CE...

hope to find some time to do it.






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From malik_martin at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 27 15:57:58 2002
From: malik_martin at hotmail.com (malik m)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:57:58 GMT
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
References: <Xns92D372403734Bduncanrcpcouk@rcp.co.uk> <r2c9uusgkvesmqout846rdge47bg5tui6d@4ax.com> <1038427304.67233@smirk>
Message-ID: <u7cauuk2d2a5mopchmls03mb8kcu7v80e1@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:01:44 -0000, "James T. Dennis"
<jadestar at idiom.com> wrote:

woah that was pretty detailed and is it that obvious i use a deitel
book? hehehhe!!!! i know deitel books can make a newbie feel really
lost that's why i havent really taken up too much of c++ or anything
like that. but i think i'm doing ok for a newbie or at least i'd like
to beleive so. hehe. 
thanks


From mike at skew.org  Thu Nov 21 20:10:48 2002
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:10:48 -0700
Subject: urllib slow on FreeBSD 4.7? sockets too
References: <mailman.1037902521.24624.python-list@python.org> <arjk6q$ih5$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3ddd8419_3@omega.dimensional.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:arjk6q$ih5$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> how about (untested)
>
>     f = open('file2.ext', 'w')
>     u = urllib.urlopen("http://192.168.0.4/index.asp?file=name")
>     f.writelines(u.xreadlines())
>     f.close()

The object returned by urlopen() does not have an xreadlines method, so that
won't work. I don't have much new info to contribute, but here are some more
tests.

As was pointed out, all the delay is in the reading, and it really only
happens when dealing with these file-wrapped sockets as returned by
urlopen(). They can be on the localhost, even.

import urllib, time
starttime = time.time()
u = urllib.urlopen('http://localhost/4MB_file')
bytes = u.read()
u.close()
endtime = time.time()
elapsed = endtime - starttime
length = len(bytes)
print "bytes: %d; time: %0.3fs (%0d KB/s)" % (length, elapsed, length /
1024. / elapsed)

Result on Mandrake 8.1, Python 2.1.1:
bytes: 4343332; time: 0.141s (29992 KB/s)
...and subsequent runs are about DOUBLE that speed.

Result on FreeBSD 4.7, Python 2.2.1 (on comparable hardware):
bytes: 4343332; time: 9.404s (451 KB/s)
...and subsequent runs are the same speed.

If it really is an allocation problem, I thought perhaps you could look at
the number of bytes ahead of time via u.headers['content-length'] and pass
that to u.read() so that it could allocate what it needed, but doing so
results in no improvement.

Finally, I'm not sure a demo like the following is all that revealing, but
sockets on FreeBSD (where you'd think they'd be stellar) do not perform all
that well. Nevertheless, this doesn't explain the exceptionally slow
throughput (under 500 KB/s) for a read() on the urlopen()-produced object.
Any suggestions for tuning performance would be much appreciated.

% cat server.py
from socket import *
import time

sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
sock.setsockopt(SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
sock.bind(('',8090))
sock.listen(512)

def listen():
    try:
        (conn, addr) = sock.accept()
        starttime = time.time()
        fd = conn.makefile('r')
        bytes = fd.read()
        elapsed = time.time() - starttime
        l = len(bytes)
        print "read %d bytes in %0.3fs (%d KB/s)" % (l, elapsed,
l/1024./elapsed)
        conn.close()
    except:
        raise

while 1:
    listen()


% cat client.py
from socket import *
import time

def openSocket(port):
    sock = None
    try:
        sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
        sock.connect(('',port))
    except:
        pass
    return sock

def send(sock, bytes):
  chunks = 0
  l = len(bytes)
  n = l
  offset = 0
  while offset < l and n > 0:
    chunks += 1
    n = sock.send(bytes[(offset):]);
    offset += n
  return chunks

data = 'a'*10240
starttime = time.time()
for i in range(10,60):
    sock = openSocket(8090)
    sent = data * i
    l = len(sent)
    print 'Sending %d bytes...' % l,
    chunks = send(sock, sent)
    if chunks > 1:
        print '(needed %d chunks)' % chunks
    else:
        print
    sock.close()
endtime = time.time()
print "elapsed time: %0.3f" % (endtime - starttime)


Run server.py in one window, then client.py in another, on the same machine.

On the FreeBSD 4.7-STABLE machine, you need 2 to 17 chunks each time, and
this is what the receiving end looks like:
read 501760 bytes in 0.053s (9160 KB/s)
read 512000 bytes in 0.041s (12338 KB/s)
read 522240 bytes in 0.059s (8707 KB/s)
read 532480 bytes in 0.064s (8092 KB/s)
read 542720 bytes in 0.058s (9163 KB/s)
read 552960 bytes in 0.068s (7927 KB/s)
read 563200 bytes in 0.070s (7879 KB/s)
read 573440 bytes in 0.054s (10460 KB/s)
read 583680 bytes in 0.065s (8770 KB/s)
read 593920 bytes in 0.074s (7788 KB/s)
read 604160 bytes in 0.078s (7520 KB/s)

On Linux (Mandrake 8.1; on a comparable machine) everything is consistently
sent in one chunk, and you get numbers like these on the receiving end:
read 501760 bytes in 0.012s (42179 KB/s)
read 512000 bytes in 0.006s (83111 KB/s)
read 522240 bytes in 0.009s (58620 KB/s)
read 532480 bytes in 0.009s (59626 KB/s)
read 542720 bytes in 0.009s (58273 KB/s)
read 552960 bytes in 0.009s (59419 KB/s)
read 563200 bytes in 0.009s (59254 KB/s)
read 573440 bytes in 0.010s (54012 KB/s)
read 583680 bytes in 0.011s (52269 KB/s)
read 593920 bytes in 0.011s (53108 KB/s)
read 604160 bytes in 0.007s (81740 KB/s)






From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 18 19:37:05 2002
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 16:37:05 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
In-Reply-To: <yifC9.17375$0U1.1739527@news2.east.cox.net>
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net>
	 <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	 <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net>
	 <mailman.1037662109.12626.python-list@python.org>
	 <yifC9.17375$0U1.1739527@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <1037666225.27904.295.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

This is a top-post.  It means people reading this get the answer before
the question ;)

On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 16:09, Richard Dillingham wrote:
> What's top-posting?
> 
> Also, I knew that a,b normally evaluates to a tuple, but it already doesn't
> in an if-statement. I get a syntax error instead.

Somewhat surprising, but adequately explained in other posts.


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308
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From knepley at mcs.anl.gov  Sat Nov  2 13:12:39 2002
From: knepley at mcs.anl.gov (Matthew Knepley)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 12:12:39 -0600
Subject: Macros in Python, and using reg exps to build a scheme
 interpreter
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0210311543300.24300-100000@denali.ccs.neu.edu> <mailman.1036179783.13998.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <y8h7kfv7sdk.fsf@spinetta.mcs.anl.gov>

>>>>> "IB" == Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:

  IB> On Thu, 2002-10-31 at 14:46, Peter L. Markowsky wrote:
  >> Currently in one of my classes I'm building a scheme interpreter in Java. This has brought two questions to
  >> mind. First does python use language macros to define higher level functionality. And two does anyone know a good
  >> place to look for how to implement a scheme parser using regular expressions?

  IB> You can create a tokenizer with regular expressions, though Scheme's tokenization rules are simple enough you
  IB> could pretty much do it with string.find.  You can't turn the tokens into a parse tree using regular expressions,
  IB> but the relation between tokens and parse trees in Scheme is clear enough that it should be obvious how you'll do
  IB> that portion.
  This is possible, but I would say that it is (in my opinion) more elegant, and certainly just as easy to write
  the parser using PLY (Python Lex-Yacc) from David Beazley, http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/ply. It has a great
  design which makes is really easy to do these kinds of things (making use of Python's reflection capabilities).

         Matt

  IB> I.e., you'll want to tokenize the expression (cons "a" 'a) into something like: [('symbol', '('), ('identifier',
  IB> 'cons'), ('string', 'a'), ('symbol', "'"), ('identifier', 'a'), ('symbol', ')')], and then turn that into
  IB> something more sensible.

  IB>   Ian



-- 
"Failure has a thousand explanations. Success doesn't need one" -- Sir Alec Guiness


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Nov 15 23:08:40 2002
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:08:40 -0800
Subject: Tkinter wart: bug or feature?
References: <3dd563db.9499247@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <eppstein-0E7234.13363215112002@news.service.uci.edu> <mailman.1037407464.4609.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-F9EDCF.20084015112002@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1037407464.4609.python-list at python.org>,
 Chad Netzer <cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov> wrote:

> That's not how I took it.  Assuming you actually meant "image1 = None", then 
> that would explicitly lose the reference to the Tkinter.Image object, which 
> happens anyway once the function returns and the 'image1' variable goes out 
> of scope.
> 
> What Mike was saying is that:
> 
> lbl = Tkinter.Label(win.window, image=image1)
> 
> Hands off image1 to the Label object, which eventually becomes a Tcl/Tk 
> construct.  However, this does NOT increase the reference count for the 
> Tkinter.Image object itself, and so when image1 goes out of scope, it gets a 
> reference count of zero, and causes the actual image memory to be deleted, 
> which causes Tk to not display the image (because the Tcl/Tk delete command 
> was called on it)

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

So the workaround would be to have a global
dontDelete = []
and then in your function add dontDelete.append(image1)

...or do all the ugly bookkeeping necessary to make sure that image1 
gets deleted when and only when it is no longer needed, which is what I 
thought Python was supposed to save us from having to do.

-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov  5 20:58:56 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Nov 2002 01:58:56 GMT
Subject: power TypeErrors
References: <mailman.1036529766.5188.python-list@python.org> <aq9cf2$iku$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <aq9t10$6r3$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:15:09 -0500, Carl Banks <imbosol at vt.edu> wrote:

>anton wilson wrote:
>> I'm trying to understand the possible type errors for **
>> 
>> The language reference states that
>> 
>> 
>> The power operator has the same semantics as the built-in pow() function, 
>> when called with two arguments: it yields its left argument raised to the 
>> power of its right argument. The numeric arguments are first converted to a 
>> common type. The result type is that of the arguments after coercion; if the 
>> result is not expressible in that type (as in raising an integer to a 
>> negative power, or a negative floating point number to a broken power), a 
>> TypeError exception is raised. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm running code such as: 
>> 
>> 1 ** -2
>> -1.2 ** 0.5
>> 
>> and there is no type error.
>> 
>> How do I generate a type error?
>
>
>(-1.2) ** 0.5
>
>It seems strange at first, but the ** operator is stronger than the
>negative sign: Python sees "-1.2 ** 0.5" as "-(1.2**0.5)".  Of course,
>that's the convention in mathematical notation.
>
>1 ** -2 does give me a type error.
>
?? No prob on 2.2.2:

 >>> 1 ** -2
 1.0

But this makes wonder about working with complex numbers, where
name bindings might be to plain real negatives as well as complex
numbers (as easy to do as binding to integers and floats, which makes
for the '/' problem) yet you might want the same for
 >>> a = -4.0+0j
 >>> b = -4.0
 >>> a ** 0.5
 (1.2246063538223773e-016+2j)
 >>> b ** 0.5
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power

It seems like a problem analogous to the true division problem,
except that fewer people expect complex results.

I wouldn't want complex results all the time, but I can see wanting
to run that way in a limited context.

Which comes down again to whether there should be some kind of general
mechanism to control such modes of operation within scopes such as
function bodies or statement suites (indented blocks).

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Nov 26 03:50:32 2002
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:50:32 GMT
Subject: Python and gd library - Thank to all
References: <HrvD9.42612$744.1519497@news1.tin.it> <mAbE9.50069$744.1815000@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1038200793.7697.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sBGE9.6592$1r1.259877@newsc.telia.net>

Chris Gonnerman wrote:
>
> > The old gd-lib 1.8 can create and manipolate low quality images jpg but
> > the new gd-lib 2.0 can create and manipulate high quality jpg.
>
> I wasn't aware of any difference there... I am now using
> GD 2.0.1 on my development system, and my gddemo.py still
> produces fuzzy and color-incorrect JPEG's; the *same* image
> object produces a crisp, clear PNG.

the first item under "what's new in 2.0" in the GD documentation says:

    Support for truecolor images! /.../ To create a truecolor image
    from scratch, call the new gdImageCreateTrueColor function. The
    gdImageCreate function is still available to create palette images,
    and may also be referred to as gdImageCreatePalette.

</F>

PS. PIL 1.1.4 now supports opentype/truetype fonts.  more info here:
http://effbot.org/zone/pil-changes-114.htm




From morningstar at yubc.net  Mon Nov 18 22:25:10 2002
From: morningstar at yubc.net (Ivan J.)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 19:25:10 -0800
Subject: Tkinter~about: 2 questions
Message-ID: <d9531d76.0211181925.7a1b9412@posting.google.com>

Is there a way to change 'tk' mini icon and to rip out 'minimize' and
'maximize' buttons?
Also, is there a way to compose ?VPython' window into Tk() as a
widget?
Thanks!


From TuxTrax at fortress.tuxnet.net  Sat Nov  2 08:02:10 2002
From: TuxTrax at fortress.tuxnet.net (TuxTrax)
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 13:02:10 -0000
Subject: Protect Python Source
References: <aptefo$9qu$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg> <3mrw9.71925$TD1.3188780@news2.tin.it> <apvae6$9gp$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <slrnas7jdj.e4j.TuxTrax@fortress.tuxnet>

On 2 Nov 2002 01:40:22 GMT, Bengt Richter Wrote in
Steve Ballmers hair grease:

> On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:57:35 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
> [...]
>>
>>It is conceptually impossible to stop a halfway-competent 'cracker'
>>from disassembling any compiled form of your program if they have
>>any interest at all in it (or even if they don't: they DO do it just
>>for fun even for programs they have no earthly use for), as long as
>>you distribute your program in a fully executable form for general
>>purpose computers.  If the GP computer can get at your program, as
>>it must to be able to execute it, so can the cracker.  In some cases
>>you may be able to achieve a measure of protection if your program
>>can only execute when connected to some Internet site: in that kind
>>of scenario, you may be able to check that connections only come
>>from validly registered sites.  But in general, you should rely on
>>the law to protect your programs against unauthorized use, not on
>>illusory "protection".  "Security through obscurity isn't".
> 
> I am afraid that the "GP computer" will soon have right in the CPU chip
> the microcoded ability to input a byte stream from memory that is
> digitally signed and encrypted with the CPU's public key, and
> decrypt it into an on-chip cache memory that never gets written to
> RAM (or if it does, through an xor prng encryption mask), and execute it.
> 
> I think they're moving the concept of a computer receiving trusted code
> securely over an insecure network to a concept where the CPU chip
> looks at the motherboard as part of the insecure network.
> 
> It's not a big conceptual leap. The details are just a bunch of engineering.
> (However, no doubt this simple conceptual move from computer to CPU chip
> will be loaded with patents on obvious ideas that have been in place in
> bigger contexts for ages).
> 
> I think you can resign yourself to the idea that it will eventually
> become as hard to decrypt a private message to a CPU as it is to do
> the same to a PGP-encrypted email message to you. The message will
> only be opened on-chip, using the chip's private key. It'll execute
> as written or it won't execute at all. Either way only the CPU will see it.
> 
> Obviously you have to build stuff into an OS to make use of this stuff,
> and no doubt it will start with the BIOS below that.
> 
> There will be a lot of opportunities to form exclusive clubs of hardware
> and software vendors. Even if the technology itself is as open and royalty-free
> as PGP, so that Linux/BSD/etc can also use it for bullet-proofing, it could mean
> that the latter will not be able to interoperate except when others choose,
> unless non-exclusion is guaranteed by laws with really big teeth.
> 
> The technology is neutral, but the temptations it affords are not.
> Oh well, I guess it's all part of economic evolution, moving from
> selling atoms to selling bits to selling permission ;-/
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

I'll take an order of Palladium with a side of tyrrany.

http://www.epic.org/privacy/consumer/microsoft/palladium.html

Cheers,

Mathew

-- 
My Family is Microsoft Free. Running Mandrake Linux 8.0 kernel 2.4.3-20
I use quality open source software alternatives on my PC.

Yes, I am a Penguin cult high priest. Flipper readings upon request.

ROT13 this email address to mail me:
bar jbeq abg guerr - uvtu qrfreg zna, ng lnubb qbg pbz



From Paul_Rudin at scientia.com  Mon Nov 11 04:38:42 2002
From: Paul_Rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 09:38:42 +0000
Subject: something like "if" that returns a value?
Message-ID: <u7kfktpi5.fsf@scientia.com>

I'm having a little play with python, just to try it out; and one
thing that I find I miss from other languages is something like lisp's
if:

(if x y z)

which returns y if x is true and z otherwise.

I realise that I can define a function that does this for me; but is
there a succinct way of expressing this in the base language?

-- 
Am I accompanied by a PARENT or GUARDIAN?


From arivu at qmaxtest.com  Thu Nov 14 09:42:16 2002
From: arivu at qmaxtest.com (Arivazhagan)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 06:42:16 -0800
Subject: How to write Inline Functions in Python?
References: <mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c8476101.0211140642.29540b96@posting.google.com>

Hi Tim

I assume you're coming from C++. - Thats true.

Hi
 
My requirements here.

we have three python files names a.py, b.py and c.py. 
In a.py we are calling a global function in c.py which creates objects
of a class in c.py depending on the parameters passed. These objects
are created in the scope of c.py. But i need to happen in a.py without
using the module name.
so I thought that if we inline the function call so that it expands we
can access that object without referring to the module name.

Is it possible? Is there some other methods to achieve this in python?

regards
b.arivazhagan


"Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1037254879.20737.python-list at python.org>...
> > From: arivu at qmaxtest.com [mailto:arivu at qmaxtest.com]
>  
> > Can any one please explain how to write a Inline Function in Python?
> 
> No. See below.
> 
> > Is Inline Functions available in python?
> 
> No.
> 
> I assume you're coming from C++. In that case, I suggest you take a good
> hard look at why you want to write inline functions/methods anyway. If
> you're doing it for performance reasons, your compiler is almost certainly
> going to be better at deciding what to inline, and has the option to do so
> unless you explicitly tell it not to. If you're doing for any other reason
> (such as putting code in header files) I strongly advise against it.
> 
> Inline was developed when computers were slower and compilers were more
> stupid. These days I see no need to inline whatsoever.
> 
> Tim Delaney


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Nov 12 13:49:40 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 18:49:40 GMT
Subject: pythonic way to optimize access to imported value?
Message-ID: <aqrig4$d2h$0@216.39.172.122>

Here's a toy example. I just want to make a function that efficiently
uses (here just returns) something from a module. Compare:

 >>> def foo():
 ...     from math import pi
 ...     return pi
 ...

 >>> import dis
 >>> dis.dis(foo)
           0 SET_LINENO               1

           3 SET_LINENO               2
           6 LOAD_CONST               1 (('pi',))
           9 IMPORT_NAME              0 (math)
          12 IMPORT_FROM              1 (pi)
          15 STORE_FAST               0 (pi)
          18 POP_TOP

          19 SET_LINENO               3
          22 LOAD_FAST                0 (pi)
          25 RETURN_VALUE
          26 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
          29 RETURN_VALUE

and the result of this:

 >>> def mkfoo():
 ...     from math import pi
 ...     def foo():
 ...         return pi
 ...     return foo
 ...
 >>> foo2 = mkfoo()
 >>> dis.dis(foo2)
           0 SET_LINENO               3 

           3 SET_LINENO               4
           6 LOAD_DEREF               0 (pi)
           9 RETURN_VALUE
          10 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
          13 RETURN_VALUE

It seems foo2 is doing a lot less work, unless LOAD_DEREF is very bad, which I wouldn't think.
Is/should-there-be a syntax for accomplishing this more naturally?

What would be best Pythonic practice for getting a foo2? It seems like if there were
a way to say "do this part once at compile time" we could get this kind of thing more directly.
e.g.,

    def foo3():
        if __compiling__:   # not real code, obviously
            from math import pi
        return pi

Using a module imported to global space is easy but not as efficient,
and it clutters the global name space needlessly:

 >>> import math
 >>> def bar():
 ...     return math.pi
 ...
 >>> dis.dis(bar)
           0 SET_LINENO               1

           3 SET_LINENO               2
           6 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (math)
           9 LOAD_ATTR                1 (pi)
          12 RETURN_VALUE
          13 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
          16 RETURN_VALUE

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Wed Nov  6 08:48:30 2002
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:48:30 -0600
Subject: The Deitel book (was Re: Textbooks on Perl/Python)
References: <87b0ada6.0211011453.1df4d216@posting.google.com> <m27kfsm2x8.fsf@python.net> <aq8qbh$ik0$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1036539728.6381.python-list@python.org> <ZI6y9.77441$aL4.2400685@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <005101c2859b$3545ff00$ba01010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it>

> However, this thread started with a request for a *college-oriented*
> textbook, including, in particular, exercises for each chapter, some
> with the solution being also given in the book, some without; and
> Steve's book does not qualify in that respect, while Deitel and
> Deitel's does (though it seems from this thread that, out of the many
> technical reviewers of the book, I'm more positive about the way it
> finally came out than most others; I wonder how many other posters
> to this thread have actually gone to the trouble of checking the
> way the book did finally come out -- quite a bit better than the
> last few drafts that were widely circulated among reviewers, IMHO,
> although I'll be the first to admit that it's far from perfect).

Textbooks aren't designed to be entertaining, true; but frankly
I found it painful to read in the final form.  The content isn't
the first thing one notices about a book; rather it's the 
presentation (cover, art, paper, etc.)

The pages are nasty slick stuff, and the fonts are IMHO poorly
chosen for readability.  I haven't gone back and looked at the
review copy to see if it's the same or not, but I don't remember
it being so hard to look at.

It's just a dang ugly book, in my opinion; and then on top of 
that it's a hard read.  Sure, it may be suitable for a Python
class at college, but my advice to the prospective victim (I
mean student) is to get Steve's book also and read it first.
Then you'll hardly have to look at the Dietel book most of the
course.

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net






From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Nov 27 14:03:17 2002
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:03:17 -0800
Subject: Python Tutorial Was: Guido's regrets: filter and map
In-Reply-To: <698f09f8.0211270143.5a3b9f0f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <013f01c29647$a615b4c0$21795418@dell1700>

Jeremy Fincher wrote:
> Since they operate on any sequence, they should be methods of any
> sequence.  As functions, yes, they operate on all sequences, but they
> only return lists. 

It would be trivial to write type specific map/filter functions yourself
e.g.

def tuple_map(*args, **kwargs): return tuple(map(*args, **kwargs)

> As methods, map/filter would return sequences of
> the same type they operated on, which is (IMO) far more appropriate.

Should iterators have a map/filter method? Would they return another
iterator?

> In short, why should a map on a string return a list instead of a
> string?  

I see no reason why it wouldn't. 

> Why should a filter on a binary tree return a list instead of
> another binary tree?

You lost me on this one. What builtin type is your binary tree? Or are
you supposing that binary tree become a builtin?

Cheers,
Brian




From bismailov at uzavtoyul.uz  Wed Nov  6 10:49:13 2002
From: bismailov at uzavtoyul.uz (Bobirkhon Ismailov)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:49:13 +0500
Subject: Cyrillic character usage in Tkinter
Message-ID: <000101c285ac$0dd16110$430a0ac7@icycool>

Hello,

I'd like to use Cyrillic (Russian) letters in Tkinter (that comes with
Python 2.1.1 in Windows), but the text that comes up in widgets is not
readable. I will really appreciate if somebody shows me how to print
Cyrillic in Tkinter.

 

Thank you.

 

Bobirkhon Ismailov

Concern "Uzavtoyul"

Address: Pushkin 68a, Mirzo Ulugbek dist.,

Tashkent, Uzbekistan 700000

Phone: (+998 71) 136-10-88

Fax: (+998 71) 136-06-65

 

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From lists at battleface.com  Tue Nov 12 19:19:12 2002
From: lists at battleface.com (Alexander Sendzimir)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:19:12 GMT
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
References: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com> <m2n0oeo5bq.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <pan.2002.11.12.20.44.22.748716@battleface.com> <mailman.1037139803.24646.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.12.23.28.21.735697@battleface.com>

Trent,

Nice response. Thanks. This is more in line with what I'm looking for. I
will work with this and see what happens.

Thanks again. And again to John.

Alex



On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:21:48 +0000, Trent Mick wrote:
> A slight mod on John's code makes it seem pretty clean to me:
> 
> patterns = [re.compile('...'),
>             re.compile('...')]
> 
>     for line in myfile:
>         for pattern in patterns:
>             match = pattern.match(line)
>             if match:
>                 // do something with 'match'
>                 break
>         else:
>             raise "none of the patterns matched"
> 
> This scales well for adding more patterns. I usually use named groups in
> my Python regexs so the single "do something" block for matching any of
> the patterns works itself out.
> Trent



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Nov 14 02:57:36 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:57:36 -0500
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PoWcnQjwr8ECy06gXTWc3A@comcast.com>

"Cameron Horn" <camhorn at mac.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list at python.org...
>>> If I want to write an empty generator, I write this(?):
>>> def foo():
>>>    return
>>>    yield "never"

<my previous comment clipped>

I prefer (see below for why)

def null():
  raise StopIteration
  yield 1/0

> Do you think that a generator that returns an empty iterator (i.e.,
one
> that has no elements, as written above) isn't valid or useful?   Or
that as
> written above doesn't make such a generator?

Yes, an empty iterator and a generator function that produces such
could occasionally be useful just like empty functions and classes.
And yes, I checked: your foo (and my null) are generator functions
that each produce a generator object whose next() method immediately
raises StopIteration when first called.

Directly writing an empty iterator class is easy: make 'raise
StopIteration' the only statement in the next method.  (A simple
return does not work here, so I prefer the same in a generator where
return does work.)  As you noticed, producing an empty iterator with a
generator function is less graceful even though its less work.  The
yield statement does double duty: flag that the function is a
generator and actually yield the value when is is 'converted' to an
iterator.  So you need a 'fake' yield after raising the exception to
do the first job even though you do not want to do the second.
Perhaps 'yield 1/0' makes it clearer that nothing is really yielded.

Whether or not a 'generator that returns an empty iterator' (which is
something) is itself 'empty' is a matter of definitional choice.
Because I understand the hidden trick, I see it as not, for the same
reason that [[]] is not null even though [] is.

Part of the problem here is that 'generator' is overloaded with three
related meanings.  We write a 'generator'.  Python compiles it into a
generator function with code that we did not write.  When called, that
function produces a generator object that follows the iterator
protocol and whose next method is a 'resumable function' containing
the code that we did write.  The latter two work together with the for
loop machinery to produce the illusion that the generator we write
acts like it seems to.  So when you used the phrase 'empty generator',
you may have been thinking most of meaning one while I substituted
meaning two.

Terry J. Reedy




From chezdique at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 27 01:10:37 2002
From: chezdique at yahoo.com (dique)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:10:37 +0800
Subject: Seems like using tuple as dictionary is not a good idea....
Message-ID: <3de46143$1_1@news.tm.net.my>

Might as well split the tuple to levels of dictionary.. m[(i,j,k)] ->
m[i][j][k],
turns out to be more efficient...
Some real figures:
time taken for <function multipleDict at 0x008BFB00>: 4.164s
time taken for <function tupleDict at 0x008C08F0>: 30.468s
time taken for <function useMultipleDict at 0x008C21B8>: 2.162s
148500000
time taken for <function useTupleDict at 0x008C28D8>: 3.424s
148500000
time taken for <function useMultipleDict at 0x008C21B8>: 2.156s
148500000
time taken for <function useTupleDict at 0x008C28D8>: 3.288s
148500000


------------ the source ----------------
import time
def timeFunction(f, *args):
    st = time.clock()
    ret = f(*args)
    et = time.clock()
    print "time taken for %s: %.03fs" % (f, et-st)
    return ret

def multipleDict():
    m = {}
    for i in range(100):
        m[i] = {}
        for j in range(100):
            m[i][j] = {}
            for k in range(100):
                m[i][j][k] = i+j+k
    return m

def useMultipleDict(m):
    l = 0
    for i in range(100):
        for j in range(100):
            for k in range(100):
                l += m[i][j][k]
    return l

def tupleDict():
    m = {}
    for i in range(100):
        for j in range(100):
            for k in range(100):
                m[(i,j,k)] = i+j+k
    return m

def useTupleDict(m):
    l = 0
    for i in range(100):
        for j in range(100):
            for k in range(100):
                l += m[(i,j,k)]
    return l

md = timeFunction(multipleDict)
td = timeFunction(tupleDict)
print timeFunction(useMultipleDict, md)
print timeFunction(useTupleDict, td)
print timeFunction(useMultipleDict, md)
print timeFunction(useTupleDict, td)




From b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u  Thu Nov 14 05:09:47 2002
From: b.e.n.c.a.t.7.3. at .t.p.g...c.o.m...a.u (Ben C)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:09:47 +1100
Subject: How to comment a block of codes in Python?
References: <mailman.1037249479.4319.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dd375fd@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

try """ to start and """ to end commented section



"Mindy" <csshi99 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1037249479.4319.python-list at python.org...
> Hey, this might be easy but I don't figure out myself.
> How to comment a block of codes(including a bunch of
> lines with indentation)? Now, I just use "#" to
> comment every line and it's so clumsy when I want to
> test part of the codes.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> =====
> Cheers
> -Mindy
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com
>




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov 23 12:22:37 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 11:22:37 -0600
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
In-Reply-To: <20021123181648.M11257@prim.han.de> (holger krekel's message of
 "Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:16:48 +0100")
References: <29304.91T434T13743504threeseas@earthlink.net>
	<743utuoi3l31t8e8tt9v3sncosuk2gqi02@4ax.com>
	<1239.92T1047T4844497threeseas@earthlink.net>
	<m2hee88dvx.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<20021123181648.M11257@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <m27kf46w0y.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "holger" == holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:

    holger>     x = y = []

Of course you are right ( or are you just an arrogant jerk in power? )

Note to self: Never post untested code, never post untested code.

Thanks,
John



From Padraig at Linux.ie  Mon Nov 11 07:28:19 2002
From: Padraig at Linux.ie (Padraig Brady)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:28:19 GMT
Subject: referencing disjoint array indexes
Message-ID: <DnNz9.11696$cP3.22276@news.iol.ie>

Hi,

Is there any way you can do something like

size, mtime = os.stat()[8,6]

thanks,
P?draig.



From Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com  Thu Nov 21 19:44:30 2002
From: Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:44:30 +0000
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <87u1ib6bte.fsf@key.localdomain> <3u3D9.49382$Yw.2293340@news2.tin.it> <874rabdo3t.fsf@key.localdomain> <5r6D9.50977$Yw.2347638@news2.tin.it> <Ui9D9.1536$mr2.53738@news1.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <slrnatqvfe.s0v.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>

Tim Hochberg wrote:

>  The interesting thing is that as far as I know, no one has put together a
>  module to simulate multiple dispatch. Or if they have, they haven't pushed
>  it very hard.

http://www.sff.net/people/neelk/open-source/Multimethod.py

-- 
Gareth McCaughan  Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com
.sig under construc


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 20 01:00:06 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 00:00:06 -0600
Subject: BUG URLLIB2
In-Reply-To: <3DD54B71.1080806@libero.it> (bart's message of "Fri, 15 Nov
 2002 19:31:37 GMT")
References: <3DD43DA7.5070004@libero.it> <ar39ks$dqv$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<3DD54B71.1080806@libero.it>
Message-ID: <m2of8kixw9.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "bart" == bart  <e_viola at libero.it> writes:

    bart> Thanks to all them that helped me swiftly!!!

    bart> How can I change User-Agent field presents inside "urllib2"?

    bart> I find two variables that (I think) define user agent in
    bart> "urllib2" library: "__name__" and "__version__".

I think this will help

import urllib
class AppURLopener(urllib.FancyURLopener):
    def __init__(self, *args):
        self.version = "MSIE/5.0"
        apply(urllib.FancyURLopener.__init__, (self,) + args)


urllib._urlopener = AppURLopener()

url = 'http://www.google.it/search'
s =  urllib._urlopener.open(url).read()
print s

And once again, please limit your cross-posting (posting the same
question to many groups).

John Hunter



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Nov 10 11:13:05 2002
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:13:05 +0100
Subject: Why is Python popular, while Lisp and Scheme aren't?
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <aqjbsr$8c9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <lzfzua3cwc.fsf@unity.copyleft.no> <aqlfh1$c7d$1@news.hccnet.nl> <lzisz5sehs.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
Message-ID: <aqm0qt$4v3$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:09:35 +0100, "Johannes Gr?dem"
<johs+n at ifi.uio.no> wrote:

>* anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor):
>
>>>You're trolling, right?
>> [...]
>> To me there's no evidence of trolling in the quoted lines.
>
>Oh, come on.  You're implying that Lisp's syntax is the way it is
>because the makers of Lisp-compilers are unable to parse more
>complicated syntax.  If you don't think that is trolling, you'd better
>put down whatever it is you're smoking and come back later.

That's not what I was implying. Possibly what I wrote could give the
impression that I imply that, but this seems highly unlikely to me.
Since there is no quote whatsoever of the relevant lines I don't have
any clue as to how this impression is generated. Maybe it's better to
take a shortcut and to directly say what I *think* I was implying: The
perceived difficulty of the parens (and it doesn't matter at all if
this difficulty is real or imagined) increased Lisp's popularity in
the early days because at that time it was thought that a programming
language worth its wits had to be difficult to read. I hope this is
solved now, and I would like to state again that this whole matter
could have been avoided if quotes had been used. I would like to add
at this stage that "ad hominem" attacks like suggesting that I have
been smoking - peculiar things maybe?- are also considered to be bad
form.

Regards,
		Anton.


From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Nov 19 08:05:34 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:05:34 GMT
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <rReC9.17366$0U1.1726665@news2.east.cox.net> <TYeC9.26326$744.959069@news1.tin.it> <7h3r8dhvkbc.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <yGqC9.37126$Yw.1773999@news2.tin.it>

Michael Hudson wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> 
>> Richard Dillingham wrote:
>> 
>> >> It's better written as:
>> >>
>> >> if coords[0]<=posx<=coords[2] and coords[1]<=posy<=coords[3]:
>> > 
>> > Hmm.... I just tried that, and am quite amazed to find that it actually
>> > works.
>> 
>> Python comparison operators CHAIN -- a wonderful little trait...
> 
> Indeed they do.  There's a wonderful little wart, though.  What does
> this:
> 
> if 1 in [1] < 2:
>   print 1
> else:
>   print 2
> 
> print?
> 
> Cheers,
> M.
> (actually, the answer may be Python version dependent...)

Order-comparisons between objects of different types are indeed
not guaranteed to work consistently except within one Python run,
I believe, so, yes, the [1]<2 part might return True (or equally
1) one day, False (or equally 0) the other.  the "1 in [1]" part
will of course always be True (1), so that has no influence in
determining the result of the "and" (chaining implies "and").

Whether it's a wart (big or little) that Python allows order
comparison between objects of almost-arbitrary types (so you
can check if a list is less than an int... but not if a list
is less than a complex!) -- I don't know: I'll give it a +0.
I have in the past relied on that to "sort" a heterogenous
list (being interested just in separating all strings from
all ints etc), and I suspect I'm not the only one to have done
similarly iffy things, so maybe we're stuck with that for
backwards compatibility anyway.

That Python lets you chain _arbitrary_ comparisons (including
order, equality, inequality, identity, membership) might also
arguably be considered a wart, but I would disagree on that
one.  The semantics of chaining are well defined: for any
comparison operators OP1, OP2, ... OPN,

  ob0 OP1 ob1 OP2 ... OPN obN

is exactly like

  (ob0 OP1 ob1) and (ob1 OP2 ... ) and (... OPN obN)

this can of course be used to construct unreadable expressions,
but so can just about anything else.  As I went on to state, I
would consider it very iffy style even to code just:

    if x < y >= z :

and would rather suggest stylistically constraining the OPj
sequence so that either all OPj are one of (< <= ==) or else
all of them are one of (> >= ==).  But I don't think it's
anything like a wart that Python doesn't force you to use
decent, readable style in this respect, any more that the fact
that Python can't (doesn't even try...) stop you from naming
all of your variables x0, x1, x2, x3, ... -- which is liable
to result in code at least as unreadable as funny chaining.


Alex



From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Thu Nov  7 17:19:23 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:19:23 -0800
Subject: Date/Time Conversion
References: <Wxyy9.39$4G5.14670@news.abs.net>
Message-ID: <btoeqa.en3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

dapmco fed this fish to the penguins on Thursday 07 November 2002 10:46 
am:

> Im new to Python.. I have it installed on a win2k server. Im trying to
> figure out how to return the date if I enter a number corresponding to
> # of seconds since the Epoch
> 
> Anyone know of a good site with example code??
> 
        Read the help files...

import time

time.strftime("%x %X",time.localtime(19593874538.39473))


--  
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <


From wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  Tue Nov 12 15:12:39 2002
From: wlfraed at ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:12:39 -0800
Subject: Running python on windows.
References: <8b58f27c.0211112121.36e0de25@posting.google.com> <3s9qqa.n25.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <nbnrqa.sq3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 11 November 
2002 11:16 pm:

> {bloody web gateways to usenet -- no way I can identify from your
> headers what type of system you are running to give better
> instructions}

        I obviously need to read the subject line once in a while... it /did/ 
say Windows <G>

-- 
 > ============================================================== <
 >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
 >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
 > ============================================================== <
 >        Bestiaria Home Page: http://www.beastie.dm.net/         <
 >            Home Page: http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/             <



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Nov  1 23:19:16 2002
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Nov 2002 23:19:16 -0500
Subject: threading questions
References: <apvrd4$a5b$1@ocasysi.rubbernet.net>
Message-ID: <apvjo4$fna$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <apvrd4$a5b$1 at ocasysi.rubbernet.net>,
Oleg Leschov  <kalmas at udm.ru> wrote:
>
>1. I want to be able, using whatever the threading.get_ident() returns
>(perhaps), to determine the state of thread (does it still run or not),
>and to kill the thread, in case that it, for example, is waiting for
>some data from socket whose network interface has died unexpectedly.

You can't kill threads.  Use timeoutsocket.py

(Note: Python 2.3 will contain the functionality of timeoutsocket --
batteries included!)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Project Vote Smart: http://www.vote-smart.org/


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Nov  6 15:09:06 2002
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 15:09:06 -0500
Subject: Question about dictionary and graph?
References: <mailman.1036608704.18103.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZsWcndJ1id8s6VSgXTWc3A@comcast.com>

"Mindy" <csshi99 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1036608704.18103.python-list at python.org...
> I have a string like "from=string1,to=string2,symbole=
> 'string3' ", I want to parse it

>>> s="from=string1,to=string2,symbol=string3"
>>> d={}
>>> fields = s.split(',')
>>> for f in fields:
...   k,v = f.split('=')
...   d[k] = v
...
>>> print d
{'to': 'string2', 'symbol': 'string3', 'from': 'string1'}

>and place the three  fields into a tuple  (from,to ,symbol).

If you *know* fields are always in same order (in which case, field
names are *not* needed), you can construct tuple in fields loop
instead of dict.  Otherwise,

>>> tup = (d['from'], d['to'],d['symbol'])

> I also want to  stick an ID(just an integer) to each tuple.

Trivial exercise for you

> So how to  parse this? And is it okay to use m.groupdict() to get
> a dictionary from the results of parsing?

With string methods instead of re's.

> And still another question, if I want to draw a line
> with arrow pointed from "from" to "to", how can I do
> this?  I think this question is about how to draw a
> graph in Python. Thanks for any hints!

Did you try google? ('Python graph')

Terry J. Reedy




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Nov 20 10:59:11 2002
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 07:59:11 -0800
Subject: changing the Python grammar ?
References: <2259b0e2.0211181221.2eab9db7@posting.google.com> <7h3zns5vkrf.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <just-52D918.09381320112002@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0211200759.3b567a05@posting.google.com>

Just <just at xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<just-52D918.09381320112002 at news1.news.xs4all.nl>...
> Perhaps it's an idea for the OP to look at the compiler module? I have 
> no experience with it, but I would expect that experiments like this 
> would be more manageble with it.
> 
> Just

Thanks to everybody who answered. Actually, I don't want to change the
Python grammar, I simply wondered about this possibility. I gave a look
to the tokenize and parser module and I understood that they are pretty
nice. The documentations says that they are useful to parse Python programs,
but actually they do much more than that: with simple changes to the grammmar,
or no changes at all, they can parse a fair large class of programming 
languages. This is quite interesting to know (suppose you write a macro
language and use these modules to convert to another programming language...)
Thanks again,

                                  Michele


From member at dbforums.com  Mon Nov 18 13:39:27 2002
From: member at dbforums.com (benson123456)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:39:27 +0000
Subject: Tkinter/Canvas question, Please Help
Message-ID: <2059908.1037644767@dbforums.com>

HI,
I am new to python and tkinter, I have some question on tkinter and
canvas. I am using tkinter to build my GUI, I need to be able to
display some colored square on the screen, I can get everything to
work fine except my frame size. the frame contain 6 square box(canvas
object) and one label. The colored square looks just like the size
that I wants, but in fact it take up so much more room under the
square to store it. (I noticed that when I change the gird mathod
which I am currently using to the pack method and packing them one on
top of each other, I see a lot of space in between every square). does
anybody has any idea of how I can fix that? codes are here

"http://cswww.bemidjistate.edu/~cngai1/readcopy.py"

second question:
if I have a frame inside a frame. I want to put some object in the
inside-frame using the grid method, when I say the row and column,
would I be using the row and column for the inside-frame or the
outside-frame. I guess my question is, how many measuring system are
we dealing with?

third question:
if I am using the grid method, does every row and column has to be the
same size?

Thank you very much
Benson

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com


From dgemic at nospam.net  Sat Nov  9 09:22:10 2002
From: dgemic at nospam.net (Drazen Gemic)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 15:22:10 +0100
Subject: LCS algorithm
Message-ID: <3DCD1A12.4070809@nospam.net>

Is there an implementation of Largest Common Sequence algorithm
in Python ? I am particulary interested in implementation that
works for character strings.

                                        DG



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov 23 11:22:36 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:22:36 -0600
Subject: Newbie : desperately need help on "import MySQLdb"
In-Reply-To: <3ddfa321$0$18230$626a54ce@news.free.fr> ("Michel COMBE"'s
 message of "Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:46:18 +0100")
References: <3ddfa321$0$18230$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <m2wun46ysz.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Michel" == Michel COMBE <michel.l.combe at free.fr> writes:

    Michel> I'm trying to use MySQLdb in a python program.  System is
    Michel> Linux Mandrake 8.2, Python is installed from rpm in
    Michel> /usr/bin MySQLdb is installed from rpm in
    Michel> /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages MySQL version 2.23.53a is
    Michel> installed in /var/lib

    Michel> If I type import "MySQLdb", I receive the message File
    Michel> "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/__init__.py"
    Michel> line 27 ImportError: No module named _mysql

There should be a file named 

/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_mysql.so

If not, there is something funny about your rpm install.  If you have
run 'updatedb' recently do 'locate _mysql.so' and see where if you
have it.  If you do not have 'locate' working, try

fine /usr -name "_mysql.so"

If this file turns up, you need to add it's location to your
PYTHONPATH.  Suppose you find it in /usr/lib/someplace.  You could do

export PYTHONPATH=/usr/lib/someplace   # bash and friends
setenv PYTHONPATH /usr/lib/someplace   # csh and friends

If you do not have it, you need to try installing MySQLdb from the
source package.  Grab the *.tar.gz src, untar it with, read the README
and then

  /usr/bin/python2.2 setup.py install

Cross your fingers and hope the build goes well.  If not, reread the
README to see if you can figure out what went wrong, then post back
with the error message and get some more help.  No need to waste 2
more days.

John Hunter



From costanza at web.de  Sun Nov 24 16:56:22 2002
From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:56:22 +0100
Subject: Popular conceit about learning programming languages
References: <3d5b5ad8.0211080454.50bc6128@posting.google.com> <a8b7f07a.0211180448.460f8b9f@posting.google.com> <3DD8F24F.6050006@web.de> <yfsadk6wxxf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3DDA7260.4050905@nyc.rr.com> <yfsbs4kuuuc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <args1g$sqk$3@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1037841160.17387.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0211210838.7647301a@posting.google.com> <arj3lf$ar1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de> <2259b0e2.0211220946.5f61f641@posting.google.com> <3DDE711E.3010005@web.de> <2259b0e2.0211230554.1cde87bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <arrhu5$j19$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Michele Simionato wrote:
>>I would like to know more specifically what features make Python 
>>special to you. As Kenny put it, in what regards is Pythonthink 
>>different from Otherlangthink?
> 
> 
> Different languages have different "natural" ways of doing things, so
> you have to think accordingly to the language you have at your
> disposal. I want to be specific here, and I take an example you cited
> in this tread, i.e. the problem discussed in
> http://csis.pace.edu/~bergin/patterns/ppoop.html
> 
> Here the authors discuss different ways of solving a simple problem in
> the same
> language, according to different phylosophies.

Not quite. The purpose of that paper is to discuss the nature of 
object-oriented thinking. It is not specifically about how to find the 
best solution for the given problem, it's about how to find an 
object-oriented solution. (Non-OO solutions might do the job, perhaps 
even better, but that's besides the point.)

Their argument is that classes+design patterns doesn't guarantee 
object-orientedness.


Pascal
-- 
Given any rule, however ?fundamental? or ?necessary? for science, there 
are always circumstances when it is advisable not only to ignore the 
rule, but to adopt its opposite. - Paul Feyerabend



From stuart at bmsi.com  Sun Nov 10 21:32:06 2002
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:32:06 GMT
Subject: Getting SSL certificate
References: <aeGy9.15988$6b.572415@news2.east.cox.net> <m3smycjztc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <kuisz8bhne.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <j48z04z2wy.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <LG%y9.21231$6b.825832@news2.east.cox.net> <m3fzubmds4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Melz9.28648$6b.1126434@news2.east.cox.net> <m3fzu9c19b.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <GEEz9.34312$6b.1455175@news2.east.cox.net>

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:49:52 -0500, Martin v. Loewis wrote:

> While that might be the case, I don't really see the need for that. If
> you expose SSL_get_verify_result, your application would work, right?
> 
> If you provide a patch that exposes both (get_verify_result, and
> server_cert), this would be most appreciated.

You are correct.  I have to provide a proof of concept demo by the 15th -
so I will go ahead and use python, glossing over the lack of actual
certificate verification for the demo.  I am confident now that I can
patch socketmodule.c to provide the needed functionality later.  This is
for a business EDI application, and the PHB believes that it must already
be secure because it uses SSL - so the lack of authentication won't be
noticed for the demo.  He simply does not understand how you could be
talking to the wrong party if it's encrypted.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Nov 18 10:41:30 2002
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:41:30 -0600
Subject: 'for' loop in python,  error: unsubscriptable object
In-Reply-To: <7913deb3.0211180155.4a243cdf@posting.google.com> (georgeyu1981@hotmail.com's
 message of "18 Nov 2002 01:55:17 -0800")
References: <7913deb3.0211180155.4a243cdf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2k7ja3mxh.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

This is the kind of task a dictionary is made for:

mydict = {CLA : " the Clangers",
          RBW : "Rainbow",
          BAG : "Bagpuss",
          MRB : "Mr Benn",
          NOG : "Noggin the Nog"}
  
name = []
somelist = [CLA, RBW, BAG, MRB, NOG]
for key in somelist:
    name.append( mydict[key] )

Anytime you are tempted to write a bunch of if/elif statements, think
about doing it with a dictionary.  A dictionary in python can handles
most if/elif and case/switch scenarios.  You can map cases to
arbitrary functions with a dictionary, which makes them quite useful

def func1():
    print " the Clangers"
    
def func2():
    print "Rainbow"
    
def func3():
    print "Bagpuss"
    
def func4():
    print "Mr Benn"
    
def func5():
    print "Noggin the Nog"

mydict = {CLA : func1,
          RBW : func2,
          BAG : func3,
          MRB : func4,
          NOG : func5}
  
for key in somelist:
    func = mydict[key]
    func()



You can use the get method of dictionaries to provide default
behavior, such as a function to call when no key matches

def default_func():
    print "What the hell is that?"

for key in somelist:
    func = mydict.get(key, default_func)
    func()

And so on.  Dictionaries are fun (and they're good for you too!)

PS:

for max in range[CLA, RBW, BAG, MRB, NOG]:
    ^ don't use max as a variable name it's a builtin function


John Hunter



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Sat Nov 30 10:50:46 2002
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:50:46 +0100
Subject: Newbie Question: Giving names to Elements of List/Tuple/Dict
In-Reply-To: <20021130162606.A3046@hishome.net>; from oren-py-l@hishome.net on Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 04:26:06PM +0200
References: <1038571003.6023.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20021129141954.GA1876@hishome.net> <20021129160115.C11257@prim.han.de> <20021130144547.A1438@hishome.net> <20021130144102.E11257@prim.han.de> <20021130162606.A3046@hishome.net>
Message-ID: <20021130165046.F11257@prim.han.de>

Oren Tirosh wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 02:41:02PM +0100, holger krekel wrote:
> > > class record(dict):
> > >     def __init__(self, initfrom=(), **kw):
> > >         dict.__init__(self, initfrom)
> > 
> > But this pollutes the instance's namespace. 
> 
> Do you mean that dict methods without double-underscores? Yes, of you
> add a field called 'keys' to a record it will override the 'keys' 
> method inherited from dict. 

that's what i meant, yes.
 
> > Is inheriting from the dict class really neccessary?
> 
> Another way to achieve this effect is overloading __getattr__, __setattr__ 
> but it requires more code and is *much* slower.

just

    class record(object):
        def __init__(self, initfrom=(), **kw):
            self.__dict__ = dict(initfrom)
            self.__dict__.update(kw)

is *not* slower. 

But it doesn't offer item-access (__get/set/delitem__)
which is handy for non-string keys.  There you can use  getattr/setattr/
hasattr/delattr on a record instance.  If you really want to have the 
dictish methods then you could do 

            self.__getitem__ = self.__dict__.__getitem__
            self.__setitem__ = self.__dict__.__setitem__
            self.__delitem__ = self.__dict__.__delitem__

etc. in the __init__ constructor.  But I consider the dictish usage 
to be exceptional because otherwise you would use a dict anyway :-)

And for common (usual record/struct) usage

    r['name']  

is more noisy and less convenient than

    r.name

cheers,

    holger



From grante at visi.com  Thu Nov 21 16:37:19 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 21:37:19 GMT
Subject: How to get win32 handle for socket?
Message-ID: <3ddd520f$0$4449$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On Win32, how do I get a handle for a socket so that I can use
ReadFile() and WriteFile() the same way I do with serial ports?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My mind is a potato
                                  at               field...
                               visi.com            


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 14 08:30:11 2002
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:30:11 +0000
Subject: My (late) beef with Simple Generator  syntax (PEP 255)
References: <mailman.1037240419.5238.python-list@python.org> <PoWcnQjwr8ECy06gXTWc3A@comcast.com> <ANLA9.10384$Yw.422374@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3DD3A563.B781BE58@hotmail.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> I think that if I ever had to write an empty generator I'd prefer a
> single-statement version, such as, for example:
> 
> def empty():
>     yield iter([]).next()

Alex,

You have an amazing knack for finding elegant solutions!

I tried to come up with a one-liner that raised StopIteration, but
couldn't arrive at one.

If it was possible to raise an exception by instantiating an exception
class, then it would be even simpler, e.g.

def empty():
    yield StopIteration()

But that, of course, doesn't work.

Here is one last stab at it, which has the simplicity of my above
solution, at the expense of having to define a new class:

class emptyGenerator:

    def __init__(self):
        raise StopIteration()

def emptyGen():
    yield emptyGenerator()

Stuart Gathman said "How about a built-in null generator that can be
assigned to any desired name?"

Shouldn't be too hard to include such an "emptyGenerator" class
definition, for example in "site.py".

But I think I prefer the conciseness of Alex' solution.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Nov 22 07:53:48 2002
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 12:53:48 GMT
Subject: Bug in Win32file WaitCommEvent ???
References: <3ddaa58d$0$4459$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <slrnatomep.rpl.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3DDD711D.2000802@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <arl9cs$k6b$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:44:54 GMT, Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote:

>Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> I've verefied that the above is correct. I wrote a C program that verifies
>> that the value pointed to by the pointer passed to WaitCommEvent() is
>> written to later: after the event happens.  
>
>:(
>
>So what do we do?  We can't break backward compatibility.  I guess we 
>may need a new function that manages a little 4-byte buffer for this value.
>
I don't have win32all, but don't you need to have the OVERLAPPED struct persist
as well? Isn't the event slot there also used asynchronously?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From grante at visi.com  Sat Nov 23 21:56:02 2002
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 24 Nov 2002 02:56:02 GMT
Subject: Exec`ing external programs
References: <uu0e96366cek50@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnau0g0s.umo.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <uu0e96366cek50 at corp.supernews.com>, adrian at twistedliving.com wrote:

> import os,sys
> 
> a = open('host_list', 'r')
> for host in a.readlines():
> 	os.system('xterm -e atl.py %h &',%(host))
> 
> What I`m trying to do is read a list of hostnames and for each one
> open an xterm and exec atl.py with host as an argument. I am unable
> to background the job, so It hangs until I close the first window.

My guess: Each of the strings returned by readlines contains a newline at
the end. The shell sees that newline (which is before the ampersand) and
runs the command in the foreground.

> However if I set a to a list of hostnames inside the script, it 
> functions correctly, but fails when reading from a file.

Here's a hint: Since you know it works when 'a' is a hand-coded list of
strings, and fails when a.readline() is used, take a careful look at the
difference between the 'host' values in the two cases.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Are you guys lined up
                                  at               for the METHADONE PROGRAM
                               visi.com            or FOOD STAMPS??


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 18 18:11:14 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:11:14 -0800
Subject: Multiple instances
References: <mailman.1037652747.18051.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3DD97392.2C454858@alcyone.com>

Xiang Zhang wrote:

> I would like to run multiple instances of the same Python script
> simultaneously. Does Python support such use?

That depends on your operating system.  Certainly there's no reason why
multiple instances of the interpreter couldn't be running
simultaneously; Python would be nearly useless on a multiuser,
multitasking operating system if that were the case.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Who's not sat tense before his own heart's curtain?
\__/ Rainer Maria Rilke
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From missive at frontiernet.net  Mon Nov  4 20:42:16 2002
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 01:42:16 -0000
Subject: parenthesis
References: <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <use8fo2je674ad@corp.supernews.com>

In article <2259b0e2.0211041224.7c24635b at posting.google.com>, 
Michele Simionato wrote:
> Suppose I want to parse the following expression:
> 
>>>> exp='(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)+f(s1)'
> 
> I want to extract the first part, i.e. '(a*(b+c*(2-x))+d)'.
> 


n = 0
for c in range(len(exp)):
    l = exp[c]
    if l == '(':
        n += 1
    elif l == ')':
        n -= 1
    if not n:
        out = exp[0:c+1]
        break
print out




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Fri Nov 22 10:47:21 2002
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 15:47:21 +0000
Subject: Proposal: min(None, x) and max(None, x) return x
References: <arle6m$aa9$1@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr> <yu99bs4hlkp5.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <yfs1y5dtxme.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Andrew Koenig <ark at research.att.com> writes:

> Eric> So I told myself: wouldn't it be great if max(None, x) or
> Eric> min(None, x) always simply returned x?
> 
> My first thought was that this was an excellent idea.
> 
> Then I thought again.
> 
> Here's the problem:  The notion that max(None, x) and min(None, x)
> should both return x is one of three desirable properties that cannot
> all be true at once.  Here are the other two:
> 
>         1) Whenever x < y, min(x, y) is x and max(x, y) is y.
> 
>         2) < is an order relation over all types.
> 
> The desirability of (1) should be obvious.  (2) is more subtle, but
> it is necessary for it to be possible to sort a vector of heterogenously
> typed objects.
> 
> Now, if max(None, x) and min(None, x) both yield x, and (1) is true,
> then x > None and x < None must both be true.  But then (2) cannot
> be true.
> 
> So the cost of your proposal would be either to break the consistency
> between max/min and >/<, or to render unsortable vectors of values
> that include None.
> 
> I don't think it's worth it.

propably not, but then it's already broken anyway, since apparently abusing
comparison operators to do something completely different was deemed better
than introducing new (or user-defined) operators.


>>> from Numeric import array
>>> a = arange(3)
>>> if a > 1 and 1 > a: print "surprise!"
...
surprise!


alex


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Nov 26 16:29:16 2002
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:29:16 -0600
Subject: Why not a, b += i, j? (augmented assignment via tuple unpacking)
In-Reply-To: <3de3e129$0$4437$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com> <3de3e129$0$4437$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <20021126212915.GE7388@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 09:01:29PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> In article <KbRE9.534$RQ3.26615908 at newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>, Steven Rumbalski wrote:
> 
> > In python I can write:
> > 
> > a, b = i, j
> > 
> > but the following is not legal:
> > 
> > a, b += i, j
> > 
> > Is there a reason that allowing this would be bad?
> 
> If it were allowed, what do you propose it would do?
> 
> > Why does Python forbid this?
> 
> First tell us what you think it would do were it legal.  :)

First, define
    def iadd(a, b):
        a += b
        return a

Since 
    a += i
is equivalent to
    a = iadd(a, i)
then
    a, b += i, j
is obviously equivalent to
    a, b = iadd((a, b), (i, j))
Therefore, the meaning of
    a, b += i, j
is the same as
    raise ValueError, "unpack tuple of wrong size"
except that an extra intermediate value is computed.

I suspect that the OP actually wants it to be equivalent to
    a, b = iadd(a, i), iadd(b, j)
but in that case, what is
    a, b += t
equivalent to?  Maybe
    a, b = map(iadd, (a, b), t)
?
    __t = tuple(t)
    if len(__t) != 2: raise ValueError, "unpack object of wrong size"
    try:
        a, b = iadd(a, __t[0]), iadd(a, __t[1])
    finally:
        del __t

What about
    t += a, b
? The latter already has a meaning, for instance if t is an instance of
    class T(list):
        def __add__(self, other):
            other = list(other)
            list.__add__(self, other)
        def __iadd__(self, other):
            other = list(other)
            return list.__iadd__(self, other)

    >>> t = T()
    >>> t
    []
    >>> t += 1,2
    >>> t
    [1, 2]
This fact implies the behavior I first (sarcastically) suggested ("the
left and right sides of the augmented assignment operators are the first
and second arguments to a single iadd() invocation")

Jeff



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Nov 25 18:33:59 2002
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:33:59 +1100
Subject: if <assignment>:
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A78B@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: maney at pobox.com [mailto:maney at pobox.com]
> 
> David Brown <david at no.westcontrol.spam.com> wrote:
> > correctness.  This particular "feature" is a huge source of bugs and
> > frustration in C programming - mixing up "=" and "==" in 
> conditions is
> > probably the biggest single cause of C program bugs.  
> Python, on the other
> 
> Are you speaking from experience, or is this as well-founded as the
> hysterical wails about how Python's use of indentation is just wrong? 
> It certainly isn't remotely near my own experience (which covers a bit
> more than two decades, during much of which C was used more than
> anything else).

Actually, there have been extensive studies (none of which I can quote right
now ;) which have determined that the most common causes of errors in C/C++
programs are simple typos which are allowed by the syntax, but change the
semantics of the program. Of course we're talking about *coding* errors here
- nothing else (such as poor design, relying on the behaviour of an
"implementation defined" feature, etc).

The most common of these are = vs ==, and just about anything to do with
pointer dereferencing.

The next most common class of errors involve memory issues - dereferencing
invalid pointers, double-freeing, failing to free memory, etc.

ObRant: What the hell is the difference between an "implementation defined"
feature, and an "undefined" feature? In both cases, a particular
implementation is free to do whatever it wants. The only possible difference
I can think of is that "implementation defined" implies that the
implementation should at least try to do something useful ... and actually
document what it does.

Tim Delaney



From gerhard.haering at gmx.de  Sat Nov 23 20:02:00 2002
From: gerhard.haering at gmx.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 02:02:00 +0100
Subject: Python IRC dictatorship
In-Reply-To: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A778@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF0A778@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <20021124010200.GA15156@lilith.ghaering.test>

* Delaney, Timothy <tdelaney at avaya.com> [2002-11-24 11:36 +1100]:
> He's back! He's back!
> 
> [rest of thread deleted manually]
> 
> Damn - guess my filters are playing up :(

Mine seem to work :-)

Mail and news. And since yesterday (nick 'inapt'), IRC, too.

To everybody else who missed the autocoding discussion, I'd recommend to
read the IRC log he posted. It proves very well that any attempt to
achieve a coherent discussion with Tim Rue is just a waste of time.

-- Gerhard

gerhard at lilith:~/src/conf$ grep -r -C3 seas .
./News/score-[*]
./News/score-Score: =-9999
./News/score-Expires: 2/20/2003
./News/score: 	From: "Timothy Rue" <threeseas at earthlink\.net>
./News/score-
./News/score-%BOS
./News/score-%Score created by slrn on Mon Feb 25 15:46:05 2002
--
./.muttrc_scoring-set score_threshold_read=0
./.muttrc_scoring-
./.muttrc_scoring:# "Timothy Rue" <threeseas at earthlink.net>
./.muttrc_scoring-score '~s .*' 5
./.muttrc_scoring-score '~s autocod' =0
./.muttrc_scoring:score '~f threeseas' =0
./.muttrc_scoring-score '~f hesterloli at hotmail.com' =0
./.muttrc_scoring-
./.muttrc_scoring-
--
./.irssi/config-};
./.irssi/config-logs = { };
./.irssi/config-ignores = (
./.irssi/config:  { mask = "*!3seas@*"; level = "ALL"; replies = "yes"; }
./.irssi/config-);



From bdash at gmx.net  Fri Nov 29 00:57:55 2002
From: bdash at gmx.net (Mark Rowe)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:57:55 +1300
Subject: Name of current method
In-Reply-To: <332c7c11.0211281606.3ebd4991@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <80EDF4BD-035F-11D7-AC49-00039344A992@gmx.net>

On Friday, Nov 29, 2002, at 13:06 Pacific/Auckland, Benno wrote:
>
> Of course this is really evil, and only works in CPython (afaik), but 
> here goes:
>
> """
> import sys
>
> def get_fn_name():
> 	return sys._getframe().f_back.f_code.co_name
>
> def random_fn():
> 	print get_fn_name()
>
> random_fn()
> """

A slightly cleaner method is to use the traceback module.

"""
import traceback

def get_fn_name():
     return traceback.extract_stack(limit=2)[0][2]

def random_fn():
     print get_fn_name()

random_fn()
"""

traceback.extract_stack(limit=2) returns a list of the top two stack 
frames, each represented as a tuple in the form (filename, line number, 
function name, text)

Mark




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Nov  7 08:10:39 2002
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 14:10:39 +0100
Subject: segmentation fault when unpickling an object in another Python instance
References: <3DC96AAD.9090503@web.de> <eAWdnTH219An7FSgXTWcqA@comcast.com> <3DC99AF6.2030906@web.de> <7h3lm45zktm.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3DCA5CB1.6060004@web.de>
Message-ID: <j4wunpzfsg.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Raik Gruenberg <graik at web.de> writes:

> You are right, sort of. The problem is narrowed down: It, basically,
> seems impossible to unpickle a Numeric array of dictionaries (objects
> in general?) in another interpreter instance. I, nevertheless,
> submitted the bug report to the (more active) Python not the Numpy
> project. You shouldn't get a segfault, after all...

However, we can nothing do about that. If Numeric decides to crash,
inside its own code, or return garbage data to Python, there is
nothing that the rest of the Python interpreter can do to save itself.

The guarantee of no segfaults becomes void if there are misbehaving
extension modules.

Regards,
Martin



From yorizz at forpresident.com  Thu Nov  7 10:32:10 2002
From: yorizz at forpresident.com (YorizZ)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:32:10 +0100
Subject: Times and dates
Message-ID: <aqe176$r9t$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

Hi,

I'm abit confused about the time and stuff in Python.
I want to run my program from the commandline and give it two arguments.
those two strings need to be converted to date or time types.
I know that i can create a string from a date with strtime(date), but not
the other way around..

cheers,
Joris




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Nov 26 23:05:43 2002
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 22:05:43 -0600
Subject: dbhash/bsddb problem, old bsddb version?
In-Reply-To: <3DE435CA.5090800@ucla.edu>
References: <3DE435CA.5090800@ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <15844.17559.226879.832574@montanaro.dyndns.org>

(go bruins!)

    Leston> Hi. I have this nifty web-based address book program that i
    Leston> wrote a couple of years ago in Python. It is hosted on a web
    Leston> host, so i have no control over the way Python or other programs
    Leston> are installed. My web host, which is running a very old version
    Leston> of Red Hat Linux, probably 5.1, recently upgraded from Python
    Leston> 1.5 to 2.2. Now my program doesn't work.
    ...
    Leston>     bsddb.error: (-30990, 'Unknown error 4294936306')

If you have shell access to your web host, you need to track down the
db_dump and db_load programs.  Something like

    db_dump address.db > address.txt
    db_load address.db.new < address.txt

should do the trick, though you will probably have to use db_dump185
instead.

If none of this makes any sense or you have no shell access, contact your
tech support people.

-- 
Skip Montanaro - (class of '75) - skip at pobox.com
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From nelson at crynwr.com  Mon Nov 11 16:10:47 2002
From: nelson at crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 16:10:47 -0500
Subject: PEP #99484663
References: <mailman.1037029004.14330.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m23cq7vmlk.fsf@desk.crynwr.com>

dave at pythonapocrypha.com writes:

> FWIW, I don't find the blocks-of-code-embedded-in-HTML to work that well 
> in other languages, either. :) It has always felt like such a hack and the 
> result is unreadable and thus tough to maintain.

I agree.  Much better to generate the HTML from python code than to
attempt to extricate a python program inside an HTML document, if only
because the first can be turned into bytecodes while the second is
necessarily based on string-scanning and evals.

-- 
-russ nelson              http://russnelson.com |
Crynwr sells support for free software  | PGPok | it's better to be free
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | than to be correct.
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | +1 315 268 9201 FAX   |


From david at no.westcontrol.spam.com  Tue Nov 19 07:23:30 2002
From: david at no.westcontrol.spam.com (David Brown)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:23:30 +0100
Subject: newbie: function-parameter
References: <ard9mk$hamtu$1@ID-28938.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <ardadl$esc$1@news.netpower.no>

"Thomas Rademacher" <rademacher at prostep.FTA-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:ard9mk$hamtu$1 at ID-28938.news.dfncis.de...
> Hallo,
>
> I wrote a class with a function and I called the function:
>
> class Test:
>    def testfunc():
>      print 'test in class'
>
> mytest = Test()
> mytest.testfunc()
>
> Now I get the error message:
> "TypeError: testfunc() takes no arguments (1 given)"
>
> With "def testfunc(x):" my python script works fine.
> Why I need the parameter "x"??
>
> Thanks for your hints, Thomas
>

When you call the method "mytest.testfunc()", you are really calling the
function "testfunc" with a single parameter "mytest" - i.e.,
"testfunc(mytest)".
So the function needs to be defined to take that parameter.  By (pretty much
universal) convention, this first parameter is called "self" :

class Test:
    def testfunc(self) :
        print 'test in class'






From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Nov 12 16:55:00 2002
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:55:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: pitfall for your amusement
In-Reply-To: <aqrka3$1emk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211121354180.27512-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Russell E. Owen wrote:

> In my own learning of Python I found a fair number of warnings about the 
> problem you mentioned, so I feel it is pretty well documented. On the 
> other hand, it was a familiar problem from Smalltalk and I may just have 
> gotten lucky in my reading.
> 
> If you are collecting pitfalls, here's my least favorite: "never use a 
> mutable object as a default value". A classic example:
> 
> def badfunc(alist=[]):
>    ...
> 
> The default value of alist will not stay [] (an empty list) but instead 
> is affected by whatever you pass in for "alist". Very tricky and 
> unpleasant.

Anyone know off the top of their head if PyChecker warns you about this?




From flobauer at gmx.de  Sat Nov 23 07:46:18 2002
From: flobauer at gmx.de (Florian)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 04:46:18 -0800
Subject: screen off?
References: <utu5bo8fsqr1d2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <34d5fa23.0211230446.6c0b6b21@posting.google.com>

"Lance" <lbrannma at cablespeed.com> wrote in message news:<utu5bo8fsqr1d2 at corp.supernews.com>...
> Hi All,
> 
> Some of my programs generate considerable screen output. I would like to
> turn off the screen output to save time while developing. Is there a way to
> do this, and turn it back on again?
> 
> Thanks,
> Lance
That depends... Could you be more specific? Do you mean text output to
stdout?
Are you developing under windows or unix? On unix, you can simply
redirect the output to /dev/null, like
python myprogram.py > /dev/null
If you want to suppress the output direct in the program, than write a
custom output function that wraps the print statement or whatever you
use for output.
def output(s,testing=0):
    if(testing):
        pass
    else:
        print str(s)

Now you can turn output on or off via a global testing flag. 
Hope that helps!
Florian


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Nov 22 08:04:01 2002
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:04:01 +0000
Subject: pythonwin strangeness
Message-ID: <yGaN2+ABti39EwyC@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

I have just noticed a peculiarity with Pythonwin 148 and Python-2.2.2.
When I try and debug a program execution keeps stopping at line 923 of
lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py


ie at the line
def _doexec(cmd, globals, locals):


I was sure this didn't happen when I first installed 148 so I have
reinstalled it, but still see the same thing happening. The same thing
doesn't happen at a work machine.

Any ideas?
-- 
Robin Becker


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Nov  9 02:38:41 2002
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 00:38:41 -0700
Subject: HTML parser problem
References: <63170f57.0211070926.50387a9f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3DCCBB81.3020306@mindspring.com>

gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.netsanjay wrote:
>  Any one has suggestion for following problem. Some word documents
> have been converted to HTML page in Ms-Word. Want to filter html tags
> like..
> <o:p></o:p>,
> <![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]>
> <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
> "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />, etc. I couldn't solve
> using SGMLParser.

If you need a pure Python solution, here's what I did with some
help from Martin v. L?wis.

    ======================

import htmllib, entitydefs, sgmllib

# From Martin v. L"owis, on c.l.py, 10/31/02
def _get_unicode_entitydefs():
     import htmlentitydefs
     entitydefs = htmlentitydefs.entitydefs.copy()
     for k,v in entitydefs.items():
         if v.startswith('&#'):
             v = int(v[2:-1])
         else:
             v = ord(v)
         entitydefs[k] = unichr(v)
     return entitydefs


class MyHTMLParser(htmllib.HTMLParser):
     entitydefs = _get_unicode_entitydefs()

     def handle_charref(self, name):
         try:
             c = unichr(int(name))
         except ValueError:
             # either it isn't an integer or it's
             # outside the supported Unicode range
             # (my Python only goes up to 65535)
             c = '?'
         self.handle_data(c)

     def handle_image(self, arg, *args):
         pass

def convert_to_text(s):
     file = StringIO.StringIO()
     form = formatter.AbstractFormatter(formatter.DumbWriter(file=file))
     p = MyHTMLParser(form)
     try:
         p.feed(s)
     except sgmllib.SGMLParseError, err:
         # Error in the parse
         print "HTML wasn't HTML -- cannot index: %s" % (err,)
         return
     p.close()

     return file.getvalue()
===============================

*HOWEVER*, the SGML parser upon which this is built will fail for
some MS-Word HTML.  For example, in your text you have

   <![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]>

The "<!" gets identified in sgmllib.SGMLParser.goahead which
passes it on to "self.parse_declaration" which is implemented
in markupbase.py

     def parse_declaration(self, i):
         # This is some sort of declaration; in "HTML as
         # deployed," this should only be the document type
         # declaration ("<!DOCTYPE html...>").
         rawdata = self.rawdata
         j = i + 2
         assert rawdata[i:j] == "<!", "unexpected call to parse_declaration"
         if rawdata[j:j+1] in ("-", ""):
             # Start of comment followed by buffer boundary,
             # or just a buffer boundary.
             return -1
         # in practice, this should look like: ((name|stringlit) S*)+ '>'
         n = len(rawdata)
         decltype, j = self._scan_name(j, i)


The method "_scan_name" does

     def _scan_name(self, i, declstartpos):
         rawdata = self.rawdata
         n = len(rawdata)
         if i == n:
             return None, -1
         m = _declname_match(rawdata, i)
         if m:

Where _declname_match is

_declname_match = re.compile(r'[a-zA-Z][-_.a-zA-Z0-9]*\s*').match

But this requires the term after "<!" to be a letter, and "[" is
most definitely not a letter.  So the match fails and the code
branches to

             self.updatepos(declstartpos, i)
             self.error("expected name token")

As far as I could tell, MS-HTML is wrong and it should be using
<!--[if ! ....

that is, the "<!--" instead of just "<!".  (Other MS-HTML uses
this construct.)


In other words, this is a long winded way to say you can't
do this with the standard Python library.  As Martin suggested,
try "HTMLTidy" and/or try (as suggested by Gerhard H?ring)
one of the text browsers (lynx -dump, links -dump, w3m -dump).

					Andrew
					dalke at dalkescientific.com



From eugene1977 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 26 03:40:33 2002
From: eugene1977 at hotmail.com (eugene kim)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:40:33 +0000
Subject: some questions....
Message-ID: <arumtk$pqa$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

#!/usr/local/bin/python

wow.. i thought python is easy to learn..
but there are lot's of corks..
namespace, scoping rule, exec, eval..
all confuses me..

first.. about exec
class simple:
    def __init__(self,value):
        self.value = value
        if value == 4 :
            print c ## <--- ok
            print C ## <--- error

    def __repr__(self):
        return str(self.value)
        
if __name__ == '__main__':
    a = 3;
    b = 4;
    c = simple(a)
    d = simple(b)
    print c
    print d

    exec "C = simple(a)"
    print C



another question about exec
aList = ['a', 'b']
for aString in aList:
    aString = myClass(aString)  ## <--error
    exec "aString = myClass(aString)" ## <-- ok


what does eval(aString) do?
a = 3
b = a

print eval("b") ## <--- arn't these same?
print b

thank you for attention


From christophertavares at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 17 02:39:08 2002
From: christophertavares at earthlink.net (Chris Tavares)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:39:08 GMT
Subject: Create DLL in Python ?
References: <1b318b70.0211111607.74ace07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wIHB9.2132$fY3.214913@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Georges Bernier" <mistericeberg at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1b318b70.0211111607.74ace07 at posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> We have a legacy application at work written in Visual C which makes
> use of a DLL for specific communication functions. Now I have to
> replace this DLL (whose API is well documented) with an enhanced
> version which will make use of TCP/IP instead of older protocols
> without changing the original C application (or at least changing the
> minimum possible).
>
> Naturally I was thinking of using Python (as it has great network
> libraries and would simplify the development) but after much googling
> haven't found a clear answer on how to generate standalone DLLs from
> Python (i.e. DLLs which are not Python extensions).
>
> So does anybody have experience in such a thing, is it a bad idea (as
> I'm starting to think is is) and would it better be done in C/C++ ?
> I would appreciate comments from the Python community on this.
>
> Thanks !
>
> Georges Bernier
>

You can't avoid coding in C completely, but you can cut down on the amount
of work tremendously.

What you need to do is write a C DLL. The DLL will implement your API.
Inside the implementation, use the Python API to call from the DLL into your
python code. Essentially embed Python into your DLL. The original app will
just call the DLL and not know that python's involved at all, and you can
write your actual logic in Python.

-Chris





From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Nov 15 12:19:30 2002
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:19:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A really bad idea.
References: <c0abefc3.0211140738.635c0e6d@posting.google.com> <mailman.1037371125.2682.python-list@python.org> <ar387a$hmb$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <ar3ab2$rlj$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

"Daniel Dittmar" <daniel.dittmar at sap.com> writes:

>list comprehension: not readable, because you don't know what to search for.

I disagree with the original point but it did occur to me last night that an
'explain' mode for an expression would be a helpful feature (preferrably
inside an editor).

> explain ('[a for a in foo() if a in bar]')
Create a list of elements ...

Non trivial I know especially if you want to try and give more details for
something like:
[(x,zing(x,y),a) for y,x,_ in records if x>y]

Eddie




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Nov  7 10:28:23 2002
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:28:23 GMT
Subject: [Jython] Pass variable or class reference to PythonInterpreter?
References: <udly9.44909$Lg2.12278128@news2.news.adelphia.net> <qVpy9.1040$XO.51258@news2.tin.it> <1Auy9.45044$Lg2.12386430@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <rEvy9.2035$Bs5.49469@news1.tin.it>

Robert Oschler wrote:
   ...
>> value theString.  *CHANGING* it is obviously out of the question
>> (strings are immutable in Java *AND* in Python), but THAT
>> is clearly a completely different issue.
> 
> Re: String == immutable.  Sure, but other types and user classes are OK
> right?  At least that's what the tests I ran indicated.  I did discover

Sure - you can call any method on such variables, so if they have
methods that mutate them, that's OK, too.

> that a the class of a instance variable passed to the python interpreter
> via the set() method, must be public if it's going to be accessed by the
> Python Interpreter, otherwise you get a Java illegal access exception when

I didn't know that, but I'm not surprised based on the way Java
reflection works.

> Jython
> tries to reflect the class.  I would have thought private inner classes,
> 'inner' to the class whose method created the PythonInterpreter insntance,
> would have been OK but they're not.

Unfortunately, languages which rely on private &c for access or
visibility restriction are seriously hampered -- none that I know
has the equivalent of SQL's "WITH GRANT OPTION" clause; i.e. even
if class X is entitled to (whatever) regarding attribute Y or
class Z, yet X *just cannot grant the same privilege to other
classes yet*, such as, those used in reflection/introspection.

I consider this a serious design defect of languages such as Java
and C++.  Python, of course, finesses the issue by eschewing all
use of such access/visibility restrictions, but I know of no
general purpose programming language whose access/visibility
control is really _good_ (e.g., AT LEAST the equal of what you can
achieve in SQL with views, GRANT, and WITH GRANT OPTION) -- thus,
inevitably, such control ends up getting in the way.

You CAN ask Jython to NOT respect Java's 'privacy' settings with
some option (I forget the details, as I've never had to use this
option myself), which I think is meant to let you write testing
code in Jython that's able to get at all aspects of the classes
it's testing.  But when you do that there's no selectivity -- it's
like a steamroller flattening all access to 'public' or thereabouts.


Alex



From pdm at zamazal.org  Wed Nov  6 05:38:55 2002
From: pdm at zamazal.org (Milan Zamazal)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 11:38:55 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in DocBook
References: <3dbc45dc$0$63807$e4fe514c@dreader1.news.xs4all.nl> <3dbc51df@news.sentex.net> <FSKdnT7-Qvq47CGgXTWcqQ@speakeasy.net> <87y98f566d.fsf@zamazal.org> <j4hef2oqx0.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <873cqktmb7.fsf@zamazal.org> <m3lm4biwdl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87wuntr8rq.fsf@zamazal.org> <j465vd6433.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <871y5zhtj4.fsf@zamazal.org>

>>>>> "MvL" == Martin v L?wis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> writes:

    MvL> Milan Zamazal <pdm at zamazal.org> writes:
    >> OK, that was unknown to me.  If so, then the LaTeX format is
    >> completely fine for me.  What parser of the Python LaTeX sources
    >> do you mean and where can I get it from?

    MvL> There are several parsers in use: LaTex proper (for Postscript
    MvL> formatting), 

This one is not generally usable, from what I've heard, hacking TeX to
produce another format is quite difficult.

    MvL> latex2html (for HTML), 

It doesn't look to me like something that could be used in any
reasonable way for translation to other formats than HTML either.

    MvL> Emacs + py2texi (for texinfo), 

I'm the author of this one and this is not a parser.  It uses heuristics
to process the LaTeX source.  Actually, this is my main source of the
desire to have Python documentation in a parseable format -- I need it
in the Info format and with many new Python versions, updating py2texi
requires significantly more work than just defining templates for the
newly introduced LaTeX commands.

    MvL> latex2esis (for SGML). 

This one is unknown to me, I'll try to look at it.  If it produces
reasonable SGML (e.g. no content information is lost during the
conversion), it could be used for the conversion to a parseable format.

Thanks,

Milan Zamazal

-- 
http://www.zamazal.org


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Nov 18 18:27:15 2002
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:27:15 -0800
Subject: Hmm... An idea: if a,b==c,d:
References: <vfdC9.17334$0U1.1696580@news2.east.cox.net> <arbqp2$rkb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <YgeC9.17351$0U1.1712104@news2.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3DD97753.ECD858F3@alcyone.com>

Richard Dillingham wrote:

> It doesn't have ()s, so it ain't two tuples. Easy enough, da?

Nyet.  The problem is that a, b == c, d already has a perfectly valid
meaning in python, it's a tuple with the second element being b == c. 
Making an exception in syntax for what seems a very marginal case seems
unwise.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Who's not sat tense before his own heart's curtain?
\__/ Rainer Maria Rilke
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Nov  9 09:41:31 2002
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 9 Nov 2002 16:41:31 +0200
Subject: mounting a floppy
References: <9n8qsug5ubc9kvu9qvssvli931vqq7m8mh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns92C1A9FCC7517cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Simon Faulkner <news at titanic.co.uk> wrote in 
news:9n8qsug5ubc9kvu9qvssvli931vqq7m8mh at 4ax.com:

> I have written a CGI web frontend for a little system
> 
> I need to mount a floppy, write a file to it, unmount the floppy
> 
> Only root can do this and  I don't want to run Apache as root!

you, you better don't. you can edit fstab and specify "user" in the options  
column to allow a normal user to mount it.

/dev/fd0        /floppy         auto    defaults,user,noauto    0   0

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From mwh at python.net  Tue Nov 12 09:32:49 2002
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:32:49 GMT
Subject: Understanding some python internals
References: <3dd00611.20878343@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <7h3u1im275o.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz) writes:

> I'm trying to understand how the python debugger package works. 

Ah.

> To that effect, I've written a kind of "strace for python", that
> should tell me each instruction as it happens, in a tracefile.
> 
> The code basically does this:
> 
> - use sys.settrace() to attach a tracefunc to every statement executed
> - try to analyze the arguments passed to the tracefunc
> 
> So far, so good. Preliminary results can be seen here:
> 
> http://p-nand-q.com/python/strace.zip
> 
> The test code I want to analyze is this:
> 
> ------------------------
> test = 60
> 
> def test(x):
>     return x*2
>     
> i = 0
> while i < 5:
>     print test(i)
>     i += 1
>     
> exec("test(42)")
> ------------------------
> 
> Nothing too deviant, right? Try to run strace.py over this, and look
> into the result (STRACE.LOG). 
> 
> Ok, my questions:
> 
> (1) I want to disassemble the current step that the tracefunc is
> called for - nothing else. 

So you want to print the instruction that gets executed next?

> dis.disassemble takes a code object, but will disassemble the
> *whole* code object, not just some part. (Same, if I pass it frame
> rather than code). How can I do that?

Well, you can't *use* dis (I think).  You can probably crib the code
you need from that module, though.

> I would guess that it has something to do with the members
> frame.f_code.co_code and co_lnotab - the "documentation" says the
> latter is "encoded mapping of line numbers to bytecode indices", can
> somebody enlighten me on that?

f_code & f_lasti should be all you need.  You don't really want to try
to understand co_lnotab, but if you do, grep for it in
Python/compile.c.  There are some comments that explain how it works.

> (2) I want to print the source for the current step that the tracefunc
> is called for - nothing else. My first attempt (which is in the
> current source) is to read the file from frame.f_code.co_filename and
> read the line that is given in frame.f_lineno). This has two problems:
> 
> a) if the source spans more than one line, only the first line will be
> shown

Yup.  Not much that can be done about that, I think.  It might be the
last line in some circumstances, too...

> b) if the source is in an exec() statement, co_filename is "<string>".
> (See also question (3))

Well, in this case the source may have gone to the big bitbucket in
the sky.

> Is there are a "canonic" way of getting the code about to be executed
> inside a tracefunc?

No.  See above.  The inspect module may help...

> I tried inspect.getsource(frame) - but that prints the source for the
> whole code object, not the current frame. Bug or intended behaviour?

Oh :) Don't understand the distinction here?  If you mean you get the
code for the whole function rather than just for the currently
executing line, then surely that's the intended behaviour -- as that's
what it does.

> (3) If the code object is in an exec statement, co_filename is
> "<string>" and as far as I can see the code executed cannot be read
> from inside the tracefunc. Or can it?

No.  See above.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
 "Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crap) applies to Usenet."
 "Nothing guarantees that the 10% isn't crap, too."
                -- Gene Spafford's Axiom #2 of Usenet, and a corollary


From lists at battleface.com  Tue Nov 12 15:04:31 2002
From: lists at battleface.com (Alexander Sendzimir)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:04:31 GMT
Subject: matching multiple regexs to a single line...
Message-ID: <pan.2002.11.12.19.13.40.673926@battleface.com>


How does one match multiple regexs to a single line as in a compiler in
Python?  I'm used to doing the following in Perl, for example:

$line = <>;

if ( $line ~= /regex1/ )
{...}
elsif ( $line ~= /regex2/ )
{...}
elsif (...)
{ etc... }

To do this in Python and be able to get at the match if a regex succeeds
means I have to break up the if's because I haven't been able to get
Python to make an assignment in an if-statement. In other words,

if ( myMatch = re1.match( line ) ) :
    ...
elif ( myMatch = re2.match( line ) ) :
    ...

doesn't work for me. Perhaps I've missed something simple.

Thanks,

Alex