Could Python supplant Java?

Ken Seehof kseehof at
Wed Sep 4 15:40:47 EDT 2002

Nick Ruisi wrote:

> .net compiled code can run on linux with the mono CLR
> ( One can use the mono tool kit to write /
> compile .Net code on a linux box, without ever touching a microsoft
> product.  The compiler and SDK for C# and VB.Net is a free (albeit
> large) download. Although I don't like VB.Net as a language, C# is fine.
> It's just like java.

C# and .Net are transparent ploys by Microsoft.  This isn't paranoia, or
fashionable "Microsoft bashing", it's just plain experience.  The only
possible motivation for Microsoft to market a product that increases
compatibility across platforms, languages and applications is to be in
a position to severely damage that compatibility at some point in the
future.  Anyone who has been in the computer industry for any length of
time should see that this is obvious.  Open Source, open architecture,
and open anything, are extremely harmful to Microsoft's well being, and
they know it.  They aren't evil; they are just trying to survive.

I expect .Net to provide what it promises in the short run, at least
to some degree, in order to gain some degree of credibility.  Hence,
it works fine on Linux for now.  Once people are hooked, you can expect
microsoftisms to creep in for no reason other than to lock out competition.

If this isn't obvious to you, please read Microsoft's own internal
documentation as leaked in the "Halloween Documents".  And don't waste
space on this thread arguing with me until you have at least read part 1.
Especially be sure to read about "decommoditizing protocols".

"OSS [open source software] projects have been able to gain a foothold in
many server application because of the wide utility of highly commoditized,
simple protocols. By extending these protocols and developing new protocols,
we can deny OSS projects entry into the market." - Microsoft internal memo

- Ken Seehof

> Rex Ballard wrote:
> > netvegetable wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Not offering any personal opinion on this conjecture, but a lot of
> >>people are saying that java has failed to become a widely accepted
> >>cross platform language for applications.
> >>
> >
> > Java is still quite popular, and has established a pretty
> > substantial market share.  Microsoft is fighting Java and trying to
> > Undermine Java 2 by bundling an older version of Microsoft's
> > insecure JVM, but getting JRE is very easy, and even JDK is pretty
> > easy to get if you want it.  And since JDK 1.3 have some execellent
> > IDEs available, on both Linux and Windows, it's pretty easy to
> > implement applications that work on Both Linux and Windows.
> >
> >
> >>These leaves the world defenseless against the Microsoft Borg.
> >>
> >
> > PLEASE!!!  - Microsoft has no really good general purpose scripting
> > languages, and no low-cost development languages.  PERL, PYTHON,
> > JAVA, and TCL can all be downloaded for free.  Microsoft obviously
> > doesn't pay $4 billion/year to promote these Open Source based
> > languages which can create products and projects that can run on
> > both Linux and Windows.
> >
> > Of COURSE Microsoft is going to spend their $Billions promoting C#
> > and Visual Basic, which run Exclusively on Windows and do not
> > support comprehensive implementations on Linux.
> >
> > Of course, if you want some heavy-duty portability, you have
> > cygwin, which give you the ability to run Linux programs on
> > Windows, including Windows NT, 2000, and XP.  Cygwin isn't as
> > secure, stable, and fast as Linux (after all you are ultimately
> > dependent on Windows infrastructure), but it's a nice way to make
> > the transition.
> >
> >
> >>But could Python do the trick? The python interpreter is smaller
> >>than the JRE, and it's certainly a nicely structured language,
> >>with nearly all the coding features of Java.
> >>
> >
> > Unfortunately, Python, PERL, TCL/TK, Ruby, and the other fine
> > languages all have to be loaded AFTER the machines are shipped.
> > Obviously, it would be nice if OEMs could install PERL, Java 2,
> > Python, and others as part of their OEM installation, when it can
> > be put on the master disk.  It would cost nothing, or extremely
> > little, and would provide new capabilities not currently available
> > to Windows.  It would also make hundreds of applications available
> > as well.
> >
> > Unfortunately, Microsoft has insisted on complete control of the
> > preinstalled suite and is doing everything they possibly can to
> > maintain that control despite the unanimous ruling of the Appeals
> > court full panel that such exclusion of competitors is explicitly
> > illegal.
> >
> > Sun is likely to be the strongest candidate to be prepared to fight
> > this or have Microsoft cited for contempt.  Sun could offer Java
> > JRE and/or JDK, Star Office, and other applications which could be
> > installed by OEMs for prices that are very competitive with
> > Microsoft's office, JDK, and IE/VBScript.
> >
> > Red Hat could also press for the inclusion of Cygwin, in this case
> > possibly even at no cost to OEMs.  Corporate customers could also
> > begin using Cygwin - including Python, Perl, and TCL/TK.
> >
> > These are "first steps" - steps that would create an application
> > base that could lead to a marketplace in which both Windows and
> > Linux compete in an open and equally accessible market.
> >
> > For this reason, Microsoft will do everything it can to fight this
> > technology, since it cannot be controlled.  Microsoft has even
> > tried to force Corporations to agree to NOT use Open Source
> > technology such as Python on their Windows desktops.  The DOJ has
> > ignored this, the Courts have ignored this, and Microsoft has tried
> > to divert attention by releasing a support pack that allows users
> > to choose which web browser they want to use.
> >
> > As long as Microsoft controls access to the OEM distribution
> > channel, and has the ability to control what OS, Applications, and
> > systems can be installed on PCs, they will do everything in their
> > power to "Lock out" any technology which can be supported by both
> > Linux and Windows.
> >
> >
> >>--
> >>netvegetable at
> >>
> >
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