Brandon's personal style (was)

Cliff Wells clifford.wells at comcast.net
Tue Aug 19 09:25:59 CEST 2003


On Mon, 2003-08-18 at 23:17, Brandon J. Van Every wrote:

> The problem here is, they aren't troll posts.  You just perceive them to be.
> Why you do, you'd have to answer for yourself.  But I will hazard to guess:
> you don't like it when certain questions are asked.  You think they are
> illegitimate questions, and that nobody, rationally speaking, should ask
> them.  You think the questions will always cause trouble, that we can count
> on this from what we know about newsgroup behaviors, so therefore the
> questions should not be asked.  In other words, you think you know best
> about how discourse should properly proceed.

There is a grain of truth to this.  Certain questions and conversations
almost inevitably lead to flame wars.  This is well-known to long-term
usenet users.  This is why people who ask such questions are usually
referred to the archives where such battles have been waged ad nauseum. 
There is a definite tendency to try to deflect such battles before they
begin.  To try to force those battles is about as reliable an indicator
of trolling as is "URGENT: YOUR IMMEDIATE ASSISTANCE REQUIRED" is a
reliable indicator of Nigerian spam.  It should come as no surprise to
you that people mistake your posts as trolling.  They may be incorrect,
but it is certainly a reasonable assumption.  As such, the burden is on
you to demonstrate otherwise.  To do otherwise is simply taking
advantage of the fact that this ng isn't moderated (in which case you
would certainly have been moderated out of existence by this point). 
You seem to be under the impression that people here are hostile to
certain points of view, but I'm aware of at least one time in the past
year or so when the topic of forcing someone from the ng came up and
most were vehemently opposed to such tactics, even though the person in
question had irked everyone to no end.  
Like most groups of people with an intellectual leaning, people here
tend to be fairly skeptical.  Making inflammatory assertions with no
supporting arguments is bound to gather you the flames you seem to be
asking for.

> I am starting to wonder, if the high number of kills I've gotten in c.l.p
> says something about community cohesion?  I mean, I get kills in *every*
> group I spend any time in, but the speed and volume of kills I'm getting
> here is novel.  It's usually much more isolated and sporadic than this.  I
> hereby pronounce c.l.p, Second Order Magnitude of community cohesion.  You
> guys aren't all in the same pocket or parrots of each other, but there are 
> clearly some trends.  

This is actually quite insightful.  I'd agree that as a whole this ng is
rather cohesive.  Most people who come to this ng comment on its overall
friendliness and helpfulness.  That is something rather rare on usenet. 
Those of us who spend a good portion of our days here prefer it that
way.  And it isn't a "we don't take kindly to strangers" small-town
mentality.  Python is a pragmatic language and tends to attract
pragmatic people.  Long-winded dissertations on things not-Python tend
to be tolerated to the extent the participants contribute to things
Pythonic.  Were you known to be a contributor, either with code or
knowledge, your forays into time-wasting speculation would most likely
be much better received.  As it is the only "contribution" you've made
is a generous use of other people's time and bandwidth.

The fact that you get "kills" in every ng you spend time in probably
says more about you than other people.  Personally I've never killfiled
anyone (not even the ruebot[!]) and to my knowledge, I've yet to be
killfiled (although at times I'm a bit surprised at that, today being
one of those times).  As you've acknowledged in another post (although
in somewhat different words), people tend to create the world they live
in.  You've also claimed to be a pugilist.  Why then, are you surprised
when people choose to fight with you?  Taking your statements together
would seem to indicate that a fight is what you want.  People who
actively seek fights in newsgroups are called trolls.  You can take this
to its logical conclusion as others already have.  To quote another post
of yours (see, I'm still reading): "Generally, it is broadening to put
yourself in someone else's shoes."  If others are (mis)perceiving you as
a troll, then perhaps you should try to see it from their point of view
for a moment.  At the very least you'll have a better insight as to how
their accusations should be addressed and might actually prevail in the
argument.  *plonk* is the sound the white flag makes when it hits the
top of the post.


Regards,
Cliff 

-- 
Severance, the birds of leaving call to us
Yet here we stand, endowed with the fear of flight
                                  -Dead Can Dance






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