Brandon's abrasive style (was Re: What's better about Ruby than Python?)

Ramon Leon Fournier moncho.leon at
Tue Aug 19 21:05:25 CEST 2003

Brandon J. Van Every <vanevery at> wrote:
> - Python is not a good language for low-level 3D graphics problems.  C++ is
> better.

Well, not just for low-level 3D graphics. There are many other things
you would not code in Python unless you are a complete fool. Your
companies mail server, for instance. But you wouldn't do that in C#
either. Though there probably *are* people or companies who would even
manage to sell such stuff. Wonderful Windows world.

> - Python isn't a rapid prototyping godsend for every problem out there.

But let me ask you, what is it that you are actually looking for? A
language for each and "every problem out there"? Can there be such a
thing? I doubt. For me, it's just one out of about three 1/2 languages
I use for my daily work (that is, Python, C/C++, Bourne-Shell, in that
order, plus a bit of Fortran where it really can't be avoided). I find
that Python is very handy and I may say that I now use it for more than
50% of my work. But I wouldn't unnecessarily force myself to use it for

> - Microsoft C# and .NET are strategic threats to Python's prosperity and
> vitality, if not survival.

Only time will tell. But let's face it: For Python it will be difficult
to stand against the massively advertised, fashionable M$ products,
that everybody believes (s)he needs. Under Windows, of course. Unix is
a different domain.

> - Yet unnamed languages are capable of taking Python's place on the food
> chain.

Let's not speculate. Let them come. We'll evaluate then.

> - You have to promote your language, grow its market share, to prevent that
> from happening.

Granted that my motivation to use Python is different from that of many
others here. I have work to do, and to finish it as quickly as
possible. I figured that Python is a great language for people like me,
who are not full-time programers but who need an easy to learn language
for daily quich-and-dirty scripting. Thus, it doesn't matter to me if
Python has 1 or 10 Million users. Though I am happy about every
colleague I can "convert". Because I know from experience that it's a
good thing and that for others it may be as good as it has proven for
myself. That doesn't necessarily mean that there is nothing better out
there. In the environment that I am working in (a M$ free one), Python
is a good choice. Possibly Ruby would be about as good, and despite of
having looked at both, I liked Python a lot more, but that's more a
matter of my personal taste. I also used Perl from time to time but
never got to like it. In contrast to Python.

> These analyses are called "sanity" in the Windows world.  It's Reality On
> The Ground.  It's really odd to come to a developer community where people
> are insular and freak out about these kinds of pronouncements.  It makes
> Windows people wonder if Python people are capable of industrial relevancy.

As stated, I don't care. If one day I have to learn C# or .NET, it'll
be early enough. But unless I am forced to, I happily stay away from

> The rest of you: wake up!  Smell the Windows!

I never particularly liked that stench. Do you?

BTW: What exactly has "Smell the Windows" to do with the current Ruby
vs. Python debate? Are you actually serious about learning any of
these, or are you trying to convince yourself that it was right not to
ever try them out?

Your attitude reminds me of somebody not wanting to try the taste of
say, cheese, because it smells so bad, doesn't look great, etc. But who
always goes into the swiss restaurants asking around "What's so good
about cheese, why don't you better eat potatoes?" What will the people
tell that guy?

I am not saying that you are trolling, and in the recent discussions
you actually made some good points. But you obviously lack the sincere
will to actually become able to make a competent judgement yourself.
That's annoying.

Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Costarricenses

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